Hi. Clearly I am very new here, and though I have read as much as I can about all this, I'm not 100% sure I'll get it right. But here's my story.
My boyfriend and I first met in 2003, when I was just 20 and he was 25. I was actually travelling in his country for three months alone. We met one week in, it was "love at first sight" and we spent the rest of that time together, travelling around his country in his car. At the end of the three months, my visa was up and I moved back to my own country, with a promise between us that we would stay together forever.
As we were both young and jobless, it took a while to make that happen. We stayed in regular contact, pretty much. About a year after leaving his country, I asked him for some "space" from our relationship as basically I was seeing someone in my home country. This lasted for just a few weeks, before I realised it wasn't what I wanted and ended it. We started talking again every week, by phone and email, just as we had before. But by November, he was using the same line on me. (I had told him about my fling, btw) I didn't take it well, but there was nothing to be done, it seemed. So, I made the decision to go to his country and visit again.
I told him in December 2004 and by February 2005, I was there. We picked up where we had left off and I stayed as long as my visa would allow, which was until May 2005. There was a bump in the road in that time - I discovered that he had slept with around 3 women in our time apart - but by the end of my stay that was pretty much dealt with (neither of us were perfect, we were both young, etc) and we agreed to stay together in a long distance relationship.
I moved to another country, instead of going home, which was a little closer by air to his country. I left in May 2005, as I mentioned, then he visited in August 2005, and I visited in December 2005 for the holidays. Everything was going great, although long distance was hard. We made plans together for our next move and in March 2006, we moved to a brand new country together. After that, our long distance relationship was over. We managed to get long-term visas and were together in various places every day up until January 2013.
So, backtracking a bit, in November 2012 we decided to visit my country for the holidays. At this point we had been living together in his country for four years, and I wanted to go for a visit. We had been living with his mum for this entire time (long story), but were on the verge of moving to a brand new city. The plan was that we would "move out" by going home to my country for a visit and then not returning to his mother's place.
Well, about two weeks before we were due to leave for our trip, he started to act strange. He had been offered a job from his old employer and I didn't want him to take it, since our plan was to move to another country. He said he felt like he was self-sabotaging. I should mention at this point that he had spent the previous two years, or so, saying he wanted to go back to school. So, a lot of time had been spent discussing his career options, etc. Anyway, this particular job was not in the field he wants to be in, nor was it in the city we were moving to, so I didn't understand why it was such a big deal?
As our trip grew closer, he started to pull away and I even found him crying the night before we were due to leave. I really didn't understand WTF was happening, but he didn't really give me a decent explanation. Well, we left, I found him crying on the plane, WTF?, but we made it to my country. On the way to my parents house, I asked him to please put aside whatever it was that was bothering him, as this was the first time I had seen my family in 2 years. He agreed and everything was fine for about four weeks.
Then, for a three day period during which my parents were away, he fell into a strange slump. He would be out of bed when I woke, which was unusual, and claimed he couldn't sleep. He wouldn't talk to me, wouldn't engage, wouldn't make eye contact. On the second day, I pushed and pushed until finally I got him to reveal he thought we were over. We spent the entire day "reconciling" these feelings and by the evening, the conversation was done. But the next day, he was still extremely emotional and strange. However, we somehow managed to go for a picnic, then a day trip the next day, and by the next day he was off on this little vacation we had planned (I stayed back). At this point, we had started discussing if maybe our best bet was to stay in my country, as his schooling options were better there. As far as I knew, this was what was bothering him the most.. his career.
When he got back, we had both done some thinking, and we agreed we should stay in my country. The new plan was that I would miss my flight back to his country, and he would go so he could apply for the visa. We thought it would take about two months to get the visa, then he would come back and we would start our life anew. Well, that didn't happen.
It took him almost two months to even APPLY for the visa. This was a combination, I believe, of his usual laziness (it takes him a while to get anything done..) and some apprehension. However, he wouldn't cop to that, so I played it off as nothing, in the hopes that being cheerful and positive would help. After a few minor freakouts over Skype from him, and one night of crying down the phone and being extremely drunk, he applied for the visa and seemingly turned the corner. Everything was fine.
Unfortunately, by this point, visa time lines had been extended and instead of taking just a few months, he didn't hear anything for a LONG TIME. We had said our goodbyes in January, he had applied in March 2013, and by September we were over the time apart. He booked a flight to come to my country in October and everything really did seem fine.
He arrived in October and it was great to see him, but I did feel awkward. We still didn't have the visa and I felt like he was a ticking time bomb. I just didn't feel comfortable from the moment he arrived.. and it turns out, I had every reason to. He left four days later.. just walked out. I know it wasn't planned.. in fact, it seemed a bit spontaneous. Things weren't feeling right, but at the exact moment he packed his bag and left, I actually was picking a fight. I know he probably would have left anyway, but I still regret that fight.
Because he was brand new to the country, he had no phone or anything yet, so all I could do was email him. I emailed and emailed for hours, but didn't hear back until about 24 hours later, at which point I was beyond distraught. He told me he needed some time, so I waited. Three days later, he said we could talk by phone only. I said no, we need to meet. We met in a park the next day and talked for three hours. It was nice, it felt like there was still a lot of love between us, but I also could tell he was "broken" and that he wasn't coming back that day. Somehow, in the jumble and mess, we had some discussion about being together again in the future, but basically I would have accepted ANYTHING "hopeful" at that point.
We walked away.. and I felt okay, for about an hour.. but then crumbled into a mess. I haven't seen him since. He travelled for three months before returning to his home country. In those first three months, we emailed. I would beg him to talk to me, to come back. I would plead my case, promise I would change, etc. The usual. I did see a counsellor, and I did do one big thing: I moved out of my parents home, where I had been staying, and to the city we had originally planned to live in together. This was extremely difficult, but I wanted to show him (a) the plan could still work and (b) I was stronger than he thought.
Right before I moved, he arrived back in his home country and we finally talked on the phone. It was warm and emotional and okay. Despite getting no real promises or assurances, I felt extremely positive after that conversation. I moved a few days later and we had another conversation about 2-3 weeks later. This one was also good: hopeful, encouraging. Both times we would get emotional, but it was nice. Sometimes we would get into little arguments about our issues as a couple (sex, or lack thereof, had become a big problem) and they were emotional too. At the end of that conversation, he even did an air kiss back to me when I did one, and then said I love you too, when I said it.
About a month after that, we talked again. I should preface this by saying that when we spoke this time, he was in extreme pain from a back injury. Knowing this, I probably should have not spoken to him, but instead I did. And not only that, but I got extremely emotional when he basically blew off a suggestion I had made in our previous conversation about coming to visit me for a few months and trying again. You see, he HAD acted like he was considering it seriously, but in this third conversation, he spoke like it wasn't even on the table. I got emotional very quickly and between his bad back and extreme pain and my emotional wreckage, the conversation went for four hours and by the end of it he was basically desperate to get off the phone, being a jerk and telling me we couldn't talk anymore.
Obviously, a bad idea.
I backed off pretty quickly after that. I didn't email him again, to see what would happen, but I did post him a back-brace of his that I had. My birthday was about two weeks after that terrible conversation, so I felt pretty comfortable about going with NC because I felt sure he'd email me for my bday. Well, surprisingly, he actually emailed before my bday to say thanks for the back-brace and he made some small talk in that email. He even ended it with "How are you?" I responded, but I didn't add anything into my email that required an answer. THen, he emailed me a few days later for my bday. At this point, I took the liberty of asking for another phone conversation. He wrote back and said he felt like it was a bad idea, not just for me, but for him too, but that he would do it anyway. So, that's where we're at.. the conversation is in two days. (They're all planned, because of the long distance timing issues..)
Final comment. He is coming here to my country in the next few months to activate the visa we had applied for. Now, I can't see why he would be doing this unless it is because he still wants to keep our options open.. but I don't like to get my hopes up. ANd obviously I want to see him when he comes, but I feel like he won't let me.
So, I know this is like a NOVEL, but I am open to any advice from anyone who's made it through. Or should I say, I will *read* any advice. I'm not the best with hearing reality checks, necessarily, because I still believe in my relationship and believe it will work out. BUt I'll try..
Sorry, after I wrote all that and hit send, I realised I spent way too much time on our history and not enough time on our "present."
I want to add, quickly, that I believe he is going through a MLC. When he arrived in my country and we were spending those four days together, despite my awkwardness, he was totally pleasant. Literally an hour before he left, I was sitting on his lap and he was telling me he loved me and everything was fine.
A lot of the things he has said since are things like "I feel like we're not in love anymore," "I just want to be alone right now," "I just feel like we'll be happier this way," "I just want to be happy," etc. The list goes on.
I don't feel like I am giving all the information that I need to be, but I feel so confused when I realise it's already been 6 months.
Well, we had a phone call today.. planned, as usual.
I did my best to adopt a casual/nonchalant approach. We chatted about life in general and I tried to laugh at his jokes and stay smiling the whole time, etc. It wasn't as hard as I expected. Although I barely slept last night thinking about it, I didn't have that horrible feeling of dread either.
It turns out, he has booked his ticket to come and activate his visa. He is barely staying in the country for 24 hours, but at least he is getting the visa, which means we do have an option to be together in the future if he decides that is what he wants to do.
So, I asked him if he would consider staying with me. He's hesitatent - his words: "I don't really think that's a good idea," "I think it would be difficult," and "I don't know if it's that wise a decision."
My argument: I won't talk about OR, I think it would be nice to have a "nice time" together since we don't know when/if we'll ever see each other again (this made him tear up) and that I won't make it hard on him or put any pressure on him. He agreed to think about it.
I am fairly certain he won't do it, but he did agree to see me while he was here, so I get that at the very least. So strange to think that I'll get a 3-hour visiting session (at the most, probably) with a man I spent every day with for 7.5 years.
I don't know if I am doing the right/wrong thing here. It's hard to figure out what's going on in his head. I know there is no one else.. I feel sure of this. He won't rule out a future for us entirely - he takes a "never say never" approach - but he won't give any commitments, which I get. That's the fair thing to do, really. I'd punish him if he did otherwise, probably.
But it's hard to see how this has made any difference to his life at all.
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what he says and half of what he does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power
Thanks Cadet, I appreciate the advice.
I guess my problem is that my situation is quite unique. We weren't actually married, so there is no D process to go through that buys me any time. As far as BF is concerned, we're done and dusted.
Similarly, we don't have kids or shared assets, so we don't have many reasons to do the whole "only talk about business/kids" thing, etc.
And now that we're living across the world from each other, it makes it hard to apply my changes and have him see them. The only way for H to see the changes I am making, etc is for me to SHOW him.
Feeling nervous about next week and whether he will stay with me or not.
I was super casual when I asked him to stay, but now I am feeling this overwhelming need to send another email pleading my case
I'm sure that's against the rules.
Well, I'm officially driving myself crazy with indecision.
On the one hand, I know I should be taking a step back and allowing him to make his own decision. I have plead my case and that should be that. I am fairly sure he won't agree to stay with me and will instead stay at a hotel, and that is driving me crazy. I mean, just on a practical level it doesn't make sense.
But on the other hand, I want to scream at him. Is it really THAT hard for us to spend some time together? We were together 10.5 years, we haven't seen each other for 6 months now - since the day he left. I feel like laying on some guilt.
Feeling a bit frustrated re GAL today.
It has been about 10 years since I really lived in my own country, and all my friends are long gone. My friends in recent years were BF's friends, although I did hang out with all the female ones separately.. as in, they had become my own friends.
So, knowing no-one, I decided to take a risk and put an "ad" up saying that I was new to the area and needed friends. Not a single reply in two weeks.
Of course, I also don't make new friends at work, because I am self-employed and work from home. While I will be likely looking for a job to help me get by in the next few months, it is a while away...
Looks like I am going to have to be a little inventive. (I don't mean that I'll come up with an imaginary friend!)
Okay, an explosion of my posts have appeared. I guess I am off moderation?
I have been reading and reading and reading about situations where one partner drops a bomb and leaves and says all the usual things (I love you but I'm not in love with you, etc) and one thing has been troubling me.
Some H seem annoyed/irritated/angry, some seem happy and "free" and over the whole thing. And mine, in particular, seems sad to talk to me, almost like he's doing it out of obligation to make me feel better.
I'm curious about everyone else's opinion: is one of these better than the other? Does being angry at least show they have some regret? Does being happy mean they're actually happy?
Well, today is 1 week before I see him, even if he doesn't end up staying at my apartment. The nerves have settled in.
Despite the fact I am desperate to see him, I have a pretty heavy feeling of apprehension. I know I'll be nervous and jittery the whole time. I hope that we can regain some of that "natural" feeling between us, even though we'll only have a few hours to do it in.. and I'll probably be the only one trying.
Saying goodbye will be torture.
Not sure if I am doing this right.. is anyone even reading this!? Haha.
I bit the bullet and ended up emailing him today. I had to ask him to bring me something when he flies in next week anyway, but I admit that I did take the opportunity to reiterate that I think he should stay with me. It is literally a less-than-24-hour visit, so I think it's important.
I get that this is NOT GAL-ing or detaching, but I feel my situation is slightly different. I wanted to allow myself this as a one-off. Once he leaves the country again, though, it's back to business. I won't email unless he does, etc. I'll continue with what I am doing: looking for a job, trying to find friends, etc.
Hey vossy
I wish I could offer some advice but a long distance relationship is foreign to me. I don't know how people do that. You guys were together for a while and now he's gone, if assume there isn't much to do except live your life to the fullest. I mean, you should live your life to the fullest regardless, but him being in another country should make things a bit easier to detach.
Good luck:)
HI. I understand - but I guess, you know, for 7 full years, it wasn't a long distant relationship. We lived together for 7 years straight and the 10 months of LDR that occurred immediately before the BD was simply out of necessity.
I guess the reason I find it hard to "buy" this whole thing is because he literally moved across the world for me 4 days before he BD'd. And while many skeptics would probably question whether he actually did move, trust me, he moved. There are so many loose ends you have to tie up when you're moving and they were all tied. He's still undoing those knots.
It's true, I am able to detach easier than most, but I guess that's not 100% what I want. I have gotten my own apartment since the BD and I am making the most of this new life, but it would be nice if he'd join me in it. I guess I just feel like he showed more signs of a MLC than anything else.. it isn't as simple as "We're over" etc so I feel like hopefully he'll do a 180 of his own.
Keep postitive but have no expectations. I have my fingers crossed for you.
Thanks, appreciate it.
I'm looking at this just like any other relationship on here where one 1/2 has gone AWOL or refuses face-to-face contact. (I've seen a few.) Sure, the "living in different countries" thing makes it difficult, but not impossible. Especially when I consider the fact he's flying 24 hours to get here, spending 24 hours to get the visa, and then flying 24 hours to get back home... that's a LOT of effort for someone who's apparently not sure we should be together.
Or at least that's what I tell myself
Getting a bit nervous now. He arrives here in four days.. he hasn't decided, apparently, whether he will stay at my place or not, but I guess the "overnight" part isn't the important part. I would be happy if he would just spend the day with me, hanging out. I know it will be difficult, but it's important.
After that, it's back to only emailing if/when he emails.. hopefully that won't come back to bite me.
He's been offering to help me with certain things lately.. because I left his country without knowing I wasn't coming back, I still have a lot of things to deal with (e.g. taxes, etc). I don't know.. I know it doesn't *mean* anything that he's offering to go meet my accountant for me, but it does trigger a feeling of "well, that's nice."
I wish I had some good advice for you..other than not to ask him again if he is staying with you, I don't have any advice but I want you to know you aren't alone and someone is reading..
Agreed. I won't ask again. It's up to him now.
Thanks for replying
I appreciate it.
Journalling..
Feeling pretty frustrated today. Ex was due to fly in tomorrow morning, spend the day with me, and fly out the next day. Sure, it wasn't exactly much after 6 months of NOT seeing each other, but it was something.
Well, he missed his connection and is stuck at the airport for 24 hours. So, what was going to be a 27-hour visit is now going to be a 3-hour visit.
Devastated.
Oh, no
That's terrible. *hugs*
Well, I guess I am going to try and see the silver lining today. Due to these flight issues, I'll literally get to spend about 3 hours with him tomorrow.
However, he has written that this "disappointed" him, and he's been trying to ensure that we do get to spend the entire amount of time together. This surprises me a LOT, and though it pleases me, I'm hoping I can just think of it as a "stepping stone" forward, rather than a full-on sign that he's changing.
But gosh, this is hard!
Vossy,
I'm so sorry you find yourself here. Long distance or not, this is a good place to be.
A couple of things about your sitch jump out to me. This is just from experience and from what I've seen, the whole " I want to be alone" could indicate OW. I'm not saying he does, however that is a common association with that term.
And this sounds crazy, but many of these scenarios while frequently similar, are unexplainable. So you will only make yourself crazy mind-reading. It's a waste of time.
I know the visit is only 3 hours and listen to what he says. Let us know what transpires.
Thanks, I will, definitely.
I understand why an OW situation would seem like a possibility, but I don't believe it to be true. A couple of reasons: (1) after he left me, he did not go back home for three full months - he travelled instead. (2) before we split, he lived with his mother and we spoke every night on Skype for hours, but then he was also available every night if I called randomly, or emailed randomly. (3) I've had access to many of his accounts, including his cell, for years and he has never cared if I looked.. even now, most of his passwords remain the same as far as I can tell (yes, I went through the stalker phase for a while..!) (4) I've asked, several times. There'd be no reason to lie at this point as we technically have "officially" split.'
But I appreciate the reality check, anyway. I have wondered.. but I haven't seen a single sign of anything suspicious.
Thanks again for your nice words, though. It always makes me feel better just to know someone is out there listening.
And this sounds crazy, but many of these scenarios while frequently similar, are unexplainable. So you will only make yourself crazy mind-reading. It's a waste of time.
Sorry, I just wanted to add a couple of things.. I realise I shouldn't compare my situation to any others and assume I will get the same outcome. That's not realistic. When I mentioned that I saw my situation like many others, all I meant was that I saw it as being "fixable" despite the fact that we have this long distance problem, etc. I just didn't want anyone to "count me out" if that makes sense.
I know the visit is only 3 hours and listen to what he says. Let us know what transpires.
As for this, I am hoping actually to NOT talk about our R on this particular occasion. He is coming to see my new apartment and where I live, so I am hoping just to use the opportunity to show him how great my new life is, etc. Originally we were planning to live in a particular place together, but after he left I decided to go somewhere nearby, but better. It's paradise and pretty much one of the only things that makes me happy right now. Hopefully he'll see that shining through..!
Journalling.
Well, it has taken me a few days to let it all settle in, but.. it went well.
I had imagined I would be extremely nervous, but strangely by the time I was at our meeting point, I was totally calm. He arrived and we hugged and then we set off for my place. Everything was very natural and normal between us. We made jokes and laughed and it wasn't awkward at all. At my place, he retrieved some things that I had been storing for him, which made me a little sad, but he also left a few (less valuable) things behind. I know this really means nothing, but I guess I thought that if he had things with me, he'd have to ask for them at some point.. which would mean.. contact!
Anyway, we went for a long walk so I could show him around where I live. We had breakfast at a gorgeous cafe by the water. The weather definitely showed up for me. It was a perfect day and I am sure he could easily see himself living where I live, even if it's without me. It was total bliss.
Everything went really well.. we talked about various things, but I didn't bring up our relationship at all really. I did ask him a few plans about his future, but in casual terms (e.g. "Do you still plan to go to school?" as opposed to "Are you going to come to school in my country?" and so on).
I ended up going to the airport with him to say goodbye. I finally "broke" when it came time to say goodbye. We were hugging and I was crying and he was even a little teary.. and the conversation went like this:
Me: Is this the last time I'll ever see you?
Him: No..
Me: Promise. Wait, I mean.. I know I can't make you promise, but.. promise?
Him: Yeah
So, I probably overstepped the line there, but I couldn't stop myself. I felt like if that WAS the last time I'd ever see him, I needed to know in order to say the "correct" type of goodbye. I also told him that while I know he needs to do what he needs to do, that he should know I am still interested in him coming back.
He asked me if he could Skype/call me and I said yes, which felt good.. as just a little while ago he was saying he DIDN'T think we should talk anymore.
Anyway, it was horrible saying goodbye, but.. that's the way it is right now. He emailed me as soon as he got back to his country to say he was safely back.. and that we'd talk soon. I kept my reply on the light/casual side.
PROS:
He said he'd love to live where I live.
He promised it's not the last time we'd see each other.
He asked if he could call me.
He cried when we said goodbye.
He held my hips at one point during the goodbye, looked into my eyes and told me I looked "really good."
He turned back and grabbed me for a final hug.
CONS:
He still left, haha!
He didn't say "I love you" back to me, when I said it. (Yes, I said it. *Groan*)
I feel a sense of calm right now. Obviously I still want him back but I get that's he's not in a position to do that right now. I am proud of myself for keeping myself together during our short visit and showing him my great apartment, where I live, that I looked good, etc. That's the best I can do right now, and hopefully as long as we can just keep in touch, there is a chance.
Now it's time for me to start job hunting.
Ugh, feeling frustrated today. He's been back for a week. He did send a quick email last week to say he was home safely, and said he'd write more soon. Well, he did.. today I got a typical email: chatty, safe, nothing. In other words, he is perfectly pleasant, but he asks no questions and doesn't mention the Skype chat HE said he wanted at the airport.
I never know what my next step should be (in terms of the R, not in terms of ME).
Okay, I feel like I am making progress.. even from across the world.
After H got back to his own country, my plan was to not contact him at all. I would respond if he emailed me, and I would be extremely friendly, but I would not ask any questions or do anything that ENSURED a response. That way, any response I did get would only be because H wanted to.
Well, I have received a few emails since and in the latest one today, he's even asking me questions i.e. keeping the conversation going.
Of course, he's still not bringing up the Skype chat he mentioned at the airport, so maybe I'm not making any progress at all, but..
I guess the truth is: WHO KNOWS?
Feeling a little emotional today. Tomorrow is.. or would have been.. our 11 year anniversary together. I know I won't be saying or doing anything, obviously, and I'm sure H won't either. I wish I could know if he even remembers a date like that.
It makes me sick. Last year, he gave me a great card that said something along the lines of "Can't wait to spend all our anniversaries together.."
So much for that.
Wow. Woke up this morning to an email from H. To paraphrase, it said: He knows what day it is, he hopes it is okay for me, he knows it will be hard for me and it is for him too, and that he wanted me to know he remembered.
Interesting. I know I shouldn't mind read, but feel free to do it for me.. anyone!?
Vossy,
I haven't read your entire thread but I did see the post prior to the bump. What does it mean? Your h remembered your anniversary and it stirred an emotion in him to contact you. He may be nostalgic, sad, happy, angry or any other range of emotions. Who knows. However, it doesn't really mean anything in my very humble opinion. Actions speak louder than words.
Do something nice for yourself today. Long walk. Bubble bath. Focus on you.
Thanks Georgiabelle. It's strange sometimes how we just need to be told what we already know.
I am spending the weekends with my parents.. flew back home on Friday. It's a nice distraction, if nothing else.
I have a little dilemma I would love some help with, if anyone is willing.
Quick background if you don't feel like reading my lengthy posts: He walked out 7 months ago after 10.5 years together. The 10 months prior to him walking out were spent doing long distance; he left just 4 days after arriving back in my country. We've seen each other only twice since and had around 4 Skype calls. Lately, things have been a little more positive.
So, about five days ago it would have been our 11th anniversary and he wrote me an email where he mentioned it. Recently my emails to him have been friendly and chatty but I have made it a point to not ask any questions so that he is never "forced" to reply. In his email re our anniversary, he wrote this: "Btw, I know what the date is today. I hope this weekend is okay for you, I know it's hard, which it is for me too. I just wanted to say that I didn't forget."
He also wrote something about letting him know about how my job hunt is going, as I am currently unemployed and urgently looking for a job.
My question is this: Should I write back re the anniversary, or should I wait it out until I have something to report re job hunt?
If the anniversary paragraph wasn't mentioned, I would have waited it out easily. But I do feel like it is almost rude to not acknowledge what he wrote about our anniversary.. it is more about being polite than anything.
Thoughts?
vossy,
I wish I was someone who could give you advice/direction. But I am not. I am new here myself. I just wanted you to know over the past couple of days I have read your entire story from start to finish. You definitely have patience and a strong will power to work at this given the distances you both face at times. So while I do not have anything productive to offer in terms of help, I will offer my moral support. I will follow your story and wish you the best!
That being said, i will take an amateur stab at the anniversary remark. So please do not listen to me, but wait till someone with more experience validates or shoots down my thought. I would guess since he brought it up it would be ok to make a remark about it. However, I would think a reply along the lines of "its nice that you remembered" would do you well. This way you acknowledge his comment in a pleasant way, but you do not tip your hand that you were dwelling on this day as well. I would think this would be a non pursuing reply. Just my thoughts...maybe someone else will have a different idea.
Pilot - Thanks for reading my story. I know it's a bit of a long one, but I appreciate that someone out there is willing to "take me on" haha. It's definitely been a struggle these last few months and no one in my immediate family really has the capacity to help as they would like to.
Anyone else want to weigh in? I feel that I need to do something, either way, today.
I think he didnt ask a question so no response is called for. I would say nothing. If that feels rude, then "thank you for your message." Maybe. He did not do anything that merits much gratitude, but he displayed a little empathy, which is good.
I just wanted to say... Not ignoring your question, but a little stumped. On the one hand, I like pilot's suggestion. On the other, it's such a charged subject that I don't see how you could acknowledge it casually.
So I lean towards.... It's been five days and you would otherwise have let it go, so maybe the moment has passed?
But hopefully a vet arrives to offer more qualified advice than mine.
Thanks Adinva and Maybell for your thoughts.
It's such a struggle to figure out which side of me "wins" - (a) The polite person in me that was around LONG before this new journey started (b) The person trying to DB or (c) The person who has been hurt.
I think I'm going to have to say something, though not much. I don't know. I guess because my journey is a little different to everyone else's, in the sense that is is DB-ing from across the world, email is my only method of showing the changes I have made etc. Therefore if I just ignore his emails completely, there is absolutely no chance of renewing the R. I think I'll have to just do what I have been doing.. offer a polite thanks that perhaps makes him feel good (i.e. validating) but does not offer any new info on MY feelings, I won't ask questions or really talk about our R at all, and I'll leave it at that.
It's certainly not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but the fact he even acknowledged our anniversary at all is a BIG switch from other occasions.. he didn't acknowledge Christmas or my bday in a way that was any more than cursory or obligatory. I thought he would straight-up ignore this occasion, given that the only reason this occasion exists is because our R once existed.
Ugh, this journey is so d**n confusing!
It's been a while since I last wrote, simply because not much is happening in terms of the R (or non-R I guess!)
It's been pretty rough for me recently as well, and I have needed to take some time to gather my thoughts. My GAL-ing is not going as planned.. my sister (one of only two people I know in this city) is leaving in two days for a year-long round the world trip. Even though we're not the best of friends, it's been hard for me to not feel slightly abandoned.. I know that is a result of the R breakdown with H, and not an actual issue with my sister, but it's hard to reconcile those feelings.
The only friend I have in this city seems to shut down communication as soon as I ask her to do anything, strangely.
And I am desperately looking for a job.. and having no luck. It's become very stressful, as in about two weeks from now, if I don't have anything, I'll probably have to give notice on my apartment, which will result in me breaking the lease and losing $3,000. This has given me more stress than I realise.. I barely sleep and have headaches every day.
I don't mean to sound so sorry for myself, but it's been one of those months where it just feels like I can't catch a break, and in turn I've become extremely angry and emotional with my family.
As for R, I did end up writing back to his email re our anniversary. I kept it light and just said thanks for acknowledging. He wrote back around a week later. He did say one thing in his latest email that irked me.. he told me how his summer was going and said something along the lines of "My mum is still irritating me, it's really hot, the cat is really fat.. so nothing has changed" and that really annoyed me.. You know, if nothing has changed, then what was the point of all this? I thought you "wanted to find happiness" again?
He's stuck in a rut and he can't seem to see that. It didn't anger me on a personal level, but I worry that he's not moving along with his life in a positive way.
It's been two weeks today since he wrote that email. I plan to write back today.. I purposely left it a while because he's not used to that. I have always been someone who writes back immediately.
Once again, I won't ask him any questions. Just fill him in on what's going on with me, answer the question he asked and leave it at that. I no longer write "I love you" at the end of my emails, and I expect he's noticed that. The only other thing I need to do is make sure I keep it really positive, and avoid mentioning how much my job situation is stressing me out.
I hope I'm doing the right thing.
Ugh. Feeling frustrated today.
Right on cue, two weeks after my email, he writes. He is perfectly friendly, asks a few questions, tells me to let him know how my job search is going. He talks about a wedding he went to last weekend and how fun it was. That is a wedding I would have gone to with him, had this not all happened. It is hard to hear him talk about it; I was hoping it would make him miss having a partner.
I just don't understand what we're doing. I've told him flat out MANY times that if we're not going to be together, I don't want to be friends. I've said the words "If we're not together, that's it. We can't talk. I need to erase you from my life."
So that leads me to believe that the fact he emails me with questions and clearly initiates a next round of contact makes me think he's not fully done.
But who knows if that's true. Is my DB'ing working? Has he conveniently forgotten everything I said?
I'm not a vet, far from it, in fact. I just want to encourage you and let you know I read your story and feel for you. (((Hugs)))
Thanks, ss06, I appreciate it.
Definitely going through some emotional turmoil at the moment in my head. It's funny how (TMI alert) my "cycle" dictates my emotions.
I can pretty much count down like clockwork that I'll go through a hurt/sad phase, followed by an angry phase, followed by an almost euphoric "I can do this" phase.. and press repeat and start again... every four weeks.
Right now: cue hurt/sad phase.
The only good thing about having an "emotional schedule" is you know what's coming and that it will pass.
Time to go buy myself some unhealthy snacks for the weekend.
I stopped responding to H's chit-chatty/non-essential communications, and he doesn't send much of that stuff anymore. It's nice to not have to see their name pop up in an email or text and get that sudden twinge. I've finally finished a pasta casserole that I made on Monday (silly me making something that could feed a family of four, I've been eating it every day) so I'm SO looking forward to getting some unhealthy fast food dinner tomorrow night as well
I'm already thinking about a stuffed crust pizza slice and breadsticks with nacho cheese from a nearby pizza place... yum.
Ha. KGirl, that is the one major thing I've noticed. I've just eaten the same meal for 3 nights in a row.. I don't seem able to cook for one.
I know what you mean about not responding, but I don't know how to deal with that re my personal situation. If you haven't read my (extra long) story.. I now live in a different country from my ex.. and we don't have any shared assets like a house to discuss. So, if I want communication, it's either chit-chat or nothing.
My rule of thumb is that I never ask any questions. But with every email he sends, he does, so I reply.
I have wondered what I would do if he didn't ask a question.. I'd like to think I wouldn't respond. But then is that it? Is that how the relationship ultimately ends.. one day we just stop talking, and that is IT... forever?
I realise at some point one of us will have to do something.. and it will probably be me, because my ex is the procrastinator to end all procrastinators. For now, though, I don't feel comfortable going NC or going dark.. or any of those things. And if I was to be the one to end this, I'd probably have to tell him "Okay, this is the last time I'm ever going to email you."
And that just feels silly.
I read back over this, though, and I can see how confused I am.
I do wonder about that too... I had a thought the other day along the lines of "so will we just fizzle out and stop talking and finally one of us will say 'well, I guess we should officially end this?' " We don't live together anymore and have no kids, but we do still have some shared assets so that has facilitated some logistical communication. More and more of that is getting sorted out so communication is less. When I had a little anxiety attack one day about whether or not I should have said something to H about how me moving doesn't mean I was done, that I'd still be open to getting back together, lots of people said similar things:
-If he wanted to R with you he knows how to find you
-If he's too stubborn or prideful to reach out do you really want an R with someone like that anyway?
-and as Maybell nicely put it, "Do you want a marriage where you have to constantly remind your partner that you're around and want to make him happy? Or would you prefer to be chased just enough to know you are valued?"
Those things helped me feel better about being a little more distant on the communication from my end. And, I was also reminded to be pleasant and light. What that has meant for me is if H sends me something that doesn't really require a response (like a few weeks ago when he sent me pictures of some patio chairs and said "thought you might like the color of these") and I feel like a response might be helpful because it's been awhile or it seems like he's looking for an acknowledgement, I'll respond briefly but politely in a way that doesn't continue a conversation (like "Neat!" regarding the chairs).
I would certainly agree with you on how you are interacting with your H.
In my case, he never sends a little message. If he did, I'd ignore it too or follow your rules of being nice, but not chatty.
Instead, we've fallen into the pattern of a decently-sized email every one or two weeks.. he updates me on life, asks about mine, etc. There are usually at least four or five paragraphs of discussion.. about his family, my family. It feels very regimented in a way, but I feel that he's not ready to let go.
In April, we were chatting on Skype and I was extremely emotional and he shut down for about a month, saying he thought we needed to stop communicating. I stopped being emotional (for my sake and his) and have been pleasant ever since, and he's never mentioned it since. Of course, we haven't Skyped again, but the difference is that HE is ensuring that the conversation progresses.. not me.
Sometimes I don't even know if I want him back or not. I know I don't want him back without some serious changes on his end. I also know that he has to go through whatever he's going through by himself, especially if he's going to come out the other end as a better/happier person.
I just wish HE could see that. He is stagnant. The only thing he's changed about his life is getting rid of me. Other than that.. all the things he has complained about for years (and accused me of holding him back from) have remained the same, with no end in sight.
And that's what I worry about. I don't want him to be the person he is right now, for his sake. It makes me sad.
Ugh, rambling!
Open question..
Have any of you found that your EX H or W either (a) joined Facebook or (b) started using Facebook more after the initial DB?
Mine joined fb last year when things got crazee! His I was on, but I did something stupid when it al, hit the fan. So he will never add me, I did try to re friend, which I later withdrew. His and ow have totally 100% private pages, which Is nice I see nothing.
He joined when he was join to the desert, supposedly to keep up with me. There was no ow known at this stage. He was picking fights with me and hit s16 I think so I would end it.
He thought that would be the deal breaker.
Hmm. I know I have "broken" the rules here, but I'm in a complete spin.
After BD, not a single one of my EX's friends or family members have contacted me, which is a whole separate "hurt" given that I was extremely close with his family and even lived with his mother for four years. Because they have all basically cut me out, I have (perhaps stupidly) assumed that if something awful happened to my EX, no one would contact me.
Thus, every day I search for his name just to make sure he hasn't been hit by a car or something. I know that's stupid..
I also check the Facebook results each day. I read somewhere once that when people break up, they start posting on Facebook more, and I started to wonder if he would join. Well, sure enough, today, instead of four results for his name, there were five. Even though the new result is completely private, I am almost positive it is him..
I know this is stupid but I am completely freaking out and mind-reading.. what does it mean? Is it because he's started dating again? Is it because he has someone new in his life? He is an extremely private person and has always rallied against Facebook, so what has changed..
It's making me crazy. And I was doing so well..
I know my thread goes largely unread, but it's nice to have somewhere to vent.
My heart is hurting today. I don't know.. I feel like I should be better by now but I'm not. It's been almost 10 months since he left and I've had plenty of room for detachment.. I've only seen him twice and spoken to him on the phone maybe 3-4 times.. and there's been maybe 20 emails in between, if that.
But today is the longest it's been since I received an email and I am freaking out. It doesn't help that (a) he joined Facebook and (b) his mother keeps Googling me. Without revealing too much, I have my own business website and it has tracking, so I know it's her...
She never contacted me after the split, which really hurt me. I know, I know.. I could have contacted her, but I felt like since HE left me, it was up to her. She also has gone through this herself.. her H (my ex's father) left her 14 years ago and she's still not "over it".. so I thought she of all people would offer me some understanding. And I did live with her for 4 years..
I don't know why she's Googling me. It bothers me. If you want to know about me, email me..
And then I get it into my head that my ex must be seeing someone else.. and she knows about it, so that leads her to Google me.
Today is just one of those highly emotional days, I guess.
Ugh, I feel sick about it. I can't concentrate.
So lets put this a little in order.... He doesnt contact you at all, neither her family and you can't move on because you still looking for an answer...why he has no compassion or his family right? Why they dont care how much this hurts me right?
Well we dont know why is that but I think you still have a person in your life which is you. Basically without his love you feel that you are nothing, that normally happens when we give love to others in order to love ourselves, once that love is gone we dont love ourselves and we feel misserable, worthless and all that.
Look there are some relationships that end and another ones take a breake and get restored, this is what you have to see. You have no relationship anymore so you dont own him nothing neither he does.
If he is with another person and he is happy with zero issues or 1000 of them is not your problem anymore.
He left and you are by yourself right now, its not the end of your life, it might if you dont work on yourself, but pretty much if you just put a little effort in taking care of yourself it will not be the end.
He left for whatever reasons and its not coming back, focus in that because thats the only thing certain today, why would you want a person to be with you if that person doesnt want to be with you? Wouldnt be nicer to be with somebody who really wants to be with you?
Well so take all this time by yourself to focus in repairing the damage, into taking care of yourself and improve those things that you dont like, people that has no empathy for you dont deserve you in their lifes.
We respect their decissions but again, if they dont show empathy that doesnt make them really great human beings...
You are worth it of loving yourself, I went thrue the same you are going thrue and here I am, improving what I dont like from me and pretty sure I will not be involved with people who has the caracteristhics of my last relationship.
Just focus on yourself in what you dont like and embrace what you like from you and make it even better.
Time will bring you a nicer relationship with yourself, there is a lot of not worth it people out there and believe me, its not all your fault.
Thanks for your response.
I'm not sure I explained myself properly, based on your response. He actually does contact me.. in fact, he is the one keeping the line of communication open, in a sense. I don't email him unless he emails me, and I never ask questions. He *does* ask questions, so I answer them. If he stops, I'll stop, I guess.
As for "without his love, you feel you are nothing." No, that's not quite right
I feel pretty fine with myself. I don't have a lot of friends in this city.. (in fact, I have just one who I rarely see) but I am a very independent, introverted and shy person, so for the most part that doesn't bother me. I'm happy to do my own thing and that's what I do and have always done.
All I am feeling today is frustrated. It's not easy to switch off, even after 10 months of being apart. We were together for more than 10 years. I don't think it's unreasonable to still be attached to that relationship.. we made more memories than I know what to do with. We were best friends, truly.
I don't know if this is true but I get the impression that many of you think my relationship is a lost cause.. but I don't see why mine is any less salvageable than the rest of them.
Vossy,
I have to say, and remember that I am NOT a VET by any stretch of the imagination, you are deep in the friend zone.
I've read every word you've written in this thread and I keep coming back to his inability to define what the heck is going on. You're hanging on every word, responding only when he writes, etc but it is my (uneducated) opinion that you should go NC for a while. Get a life, pound the pavement for a job, make friends like crazy, get your mind off this man who is mistreating you in his absence. Your situation is unique because of the distance but relationship expectations aren't different.
I know you have lots of reasons that there's no OW but his behavior to me SCREAMS OW. He can still contact you and email you and call you and still be porking some other woman or many other women. I know that's harsh. I do. I just really want you to start thinking about you. What you need. You're holding on so tightly to him (and who can blame you, you've been in a committed relationship with him and he literally just up and fled) but he's not coming back the way things are right now. You don't even know WHY he left in the first place. Right?
I can't figure out WHY someone would fly 24 hours to work on a visa and fly out again 24 hours later. I mean, just the expense of the trip alone seems counter intuitive. I'm just spitballing here, Vossy.
You're not detached (and me saying that is the pot calling the kettle black so I totally understand how HARD that is) but it's not terribly hard when you live thousands of miles away from your BF. You deserve BETTER so give it to yourself and show him that you deserve it by treating yourself better. What would happen if you didn't respond to his email? I know you think you might shrivel up and die inside but you won't. What is actually being accomplished in these emails? Just checking in, talking like buddies? He's cake eating if you ask me or he just does not have the balls to tell you what is really going on.
The distance makes things SUPER difficult which is why, I think, many may see your relationship as a lost cause. Another reason, to me, is because he's clearly playing you like a fiddle. You deserve more than he's giving you which is basically NOTHING.
I wish you strength and courage to stop playing his game and write the rules yourself. Stop contact. It's only making you miserable and you're hanging on it for weeks. He's treating you poorly and you're letting him.
((((hugs))))
Thanks for your thoughts, Ss06. I appreciate them all.
He very well could have an OW. Probably has had one. I agree, although not sure about a permanent one. I don't think he had one before we split, though - simply because it would have been extremely hard. He lives with his mother, remember
And he was home all the time last year before we split and were doing LD. We Skyped day and night, so I could see he was actually at home, etc. I'm also not sure he would have moved across the world if this was the case. He probably would have ended it before he ever came.
After the BD though, is anyone's guess! Luckily for me he's still living with his mother so he might not be the biggest catch
You are correct that we're deep in the friend zone; I don't deny it. I know it, in fact. I just feel like I'm okay with that right now. He knows that we're not going to actually be friends down the line.. as in, if this is over, so is any friendship.. and he agrees. So I guess I've always felt like the fact he still wants to be friendly is a sign that he's not sure about being 100% over.
That's also how I felt about the visa. I agree with you, it was a ridiculous move, in a way! Over 48 hours of travel, over $2k spent. BUT getting that visa was the only way we even *could* have a future. I can no longer live in his country. So, in my mind, I like that he was willing to spend that amount of money to keep his options open. I certainly didn't expect it.
Look, don't get me wrong. There are plenty of things I am angry about and he hasn't treated me appropriately, in many ways. But contrary to how it seems, I don't sit around stewing on it. I have my business, I've just started freelance writing, I go for walks, and I see people when they're around. I probably only think about him in this sad way during those emotional periods of the month (pardon the pun).
As for NC, I've considered it. I may still do it. But here is my catch.. you know those movies that you watch and they don't really give you a proper ending. Like, if you're a romantic, you think they got back together, but if you're a cynic you think "of course they didn't." I hate those movies.. always have.
So it would be pretty hard for me to just go NC because I would kill myself with the what-ifs. What if he thinks I hate him? What if he would have come back and I ruined my chances? What if he's about to write to me?
Frankly, I don't think NC would change anything. As I said above, I get by okay. I just get emotional once in a while and then I rant on here.
If this seems like I'm arguing, btw, I'm not trying to. I see a lot of what you're saying. But he's not a bad guy and never has been. He's having a pretty selfish moment right now, true, and he has a lot of work to do on himself before I would ever take him back. It's not like if he said "Okay, I'm coming back to your country and we'll move in together" I'd say yes. I wouldn't. I just don't think our story is over, but I guess I have a vested interest in believing that. We'll see, I guess.
He finally emailed about nine days ago. I have felt a lot better since receiving that email, in one sense, but it is making me rethink what I'm doing. I am considering taking Ss06's advice and going NC, but I haven't fully decided yet. His emails are chatty and friendly and he asks questions, he tells me about his life which is proceeding as normal (i.e. he hasn't made any other big changes, which he certainly needs to). I don't know. It frustrates me.
If I do decide to go NC, now would be a good time. This weekend he has the wedding of his best friend. He will know very few people at the wedding, and I know he doesn't have a plus one, so I feel like he might get a hint of loneliness, especially since he hates weddings. Following that, it is coming up to fall, and he always starts to get depressed by the weather. Finally, his bday is coming up which has been a BIG trigger for him for the last few years. I am hoping he'll start to see that his life won't change unless he changes it. That doesn't necessarily mean anything for our R. I just want him to realize that he has to put in some work if he wants to be happy.
As for that wedding, I sent his friend a message. Although she is HIS friend, she became my friend while me and my ex were together, and I am truly happy for her. It's been a long and difficult path for her to get to this point, so I just wished her a lifetime of happiness and left it at that. She thanked me and said "This means so much" and that was that. I'm glad I did it.
Now, I'm off to get a pedicure.. or at least, I would be if it EVER stopped raining! Feeling good today, despite everything, so trying to keep it up..
Vossy, I'm glad to see an update from you because I've been thinking about you a lot.
I'm just spit-balling because I'm not an expert and my own situation has me thoroughly confused so I'm really not in a position to make suggestions so please take my recommendations with a lot of salt...
What do you think would happen if you
1. didn't respond to his email/questions?
2. Started to date?
I know #2 seems pretty far out there but I wonder if you know your own value. You've been waiting around for someone since last October who isn't respecting what you had in a relationship and doesn't seem to be any closer to doing so even now.
I'd really encourage you to do #1 and seriously consider #2.
What are you doing day to day to GAL? How is work?
Talk to me about how you'll do without responding to him. Lay it out for me.
Thanks for checking in Ss06.
In terms of #1, I know what would happen on my end. I'd probably make it as far as his bday (about eight weeks away) and then I would email a bday message. In the meantime, I'd probably have momentary bouts of madness/sadness but I'd be okay. I am starting an exciting new freelance career (about to be published in my first magazine on Monday) and I'm diving headfirst into that. That aside, right now I am focusing on just staying afloat financially and enjoying my independence after years of living with various parents. I try to set myself one "task" each day to get out and about. E.g. Today I got a pedicure, some days I go for a walk on the beach, etc.
Truthfully, my main issue with going NC is that I feel.. rude
In terms of #2, that's just not an option for me right now. I'm not ready.. and that has very little to do with my ex, and everything to do with me. Of course in some ways I still have hope for our R, but I'm not "waiting" for him to figure things out. Instead, I'm just trying to figure out my own life. I've spent the past ten years travelling.. I've lived in four different countries, other than my own. I've never had my own place or furniture like I do now. I've never known what I want from a career like I do now. I'm excited about just "doing me" for a while.
At some point in the future, I hope someone comes along, but I have always been very independent and I know I lost that for a good while there. I'm really enjoying finding that side of me again.. When my ex and I first got together, I was young and innocent. Then in the space of a year (2004-5), three really terrifying things happened to me, and I grew so fearful of life after that. It is certainly one of the reasons that my ex left me.
What I REALLY want right now is to get "me" back. I don't want you be young and naive again, but I DO want to be independent again. I travelled the world when I was 20 all alone.. I want to be THAT version of me again.
As for my ex.. some days I really don't know if I want him back. I know that I won't go backwards into the R we had, so if he ever does come knocking, he'd have to be a very different version of himself. He'd have to have a pretty deep understanding of what he has done wrong, and I think he's a long way off from that.
Ok, I'm loving everything you're saying about being YOU again. Congrats on the freelance stuff, that's hard to come by. Good for you! Finding your strength despite your fear says a lot about you as a person and as a woman. You are one heck of a woman, Vossy. I can see that!
As for #1... let's get over the rudeness of it, shall we? These emails as buddies while you're hoping for more is not working. My opinion is that you could send him a very simple, "Happy birthday, hope all your wishes come true. Yours, Vossy" and that is IT!!!!! Let him ask after you. Let him notice your lack of interest in what is going on. Let him notice that you're not forthcoming on what's going on with your life and the cool endeavors you're getting into are happening without him. Let him wonder.
Thank you, your comments really mean a lot.
I agree with you. If I decide to go NC, that's all I would write for a bday message. I guess what I'm afraid of is that feeling of "Is this it?" Is this REALLY how ten years ends? Someone gets to just walk out, disappear off the radar for three months, send some friendly emails and then.. boom. It's DONE? That, I think, is my biggest issue with everything. It bugs me that I could have been that dumb, almost, to not see any of this coming? I know this is far more about HIM having a problem than me, but you know, we are the ones that get left with those thoughts..
If he just accepts the fact that I have gone NC, and goes NC himself, essentially, that would be hard for me. And I guess that's the last thing I have to deal with before I really decide if I'll do it: Am I ready to accept that we might never, ever talk again? That's the risk..
You're right, that's a risk but you're worth that risk. Right now you're a crutch and that's all. You deserve more than that. SO MUCH MORE! If you wanted to be buddies and chit chat every 2 weeks via email then you wouldn't be here on this site. You want a relationship, love, cherishing, perhaps marriage? Yet here you two are writing emails to each other with nothing more than "hey, went to that wedding, had a good time, how's the freelance stuff?" Nope. Not gonna work.
During this NC period (are you committing?) perhaps you can formulate an email in your head that is brief and direct that basically says, "it's been real and it's been fun but I'm looking for love and I deserve that".
Him dropping off the planet WOULD be hard and I recognize that fully. Don't do anything you're not ready to do but when you decide, commit. Have no expectations and do it for YOU!
Hi vossy,
I agree with Ss.
In my situation all the guys especially have been telling me to go NC. And I struggled with it so much. Like you, my WAH and I don't have kids. We really have very little reason to stay in contact. And that scares me too. Like if I do NC then maybe we will never talk again.
And I also completely agree with what you said about feeling it is rude not to reply. If you read my thread you'll see I say a lot of the same things as you.
However, I was able to pull off NC for a short while and I think it bothered my H. And it gave me a little feeling of control too.
I told myself I wasn't going to contact him or reply for X number of days or until X date and then I did it. No matter what he said or did I just didn't reply. I told myself, hey, I have a busy fun life and I don't have time to respond. But if I want I can respond later, after X date.
Your communications with your BF are a bit more spread out than mine, but maybe you can set a date as well. Like his bday. Just tell yourself you are busy until then and don't have time to reply to his email. Take the control. And allow yourself to send him a simple happy birthday email if you want to!
However, here is an idea. He would expect you to say happy birthday, right? So why not throw a wrench in his expectations and NOT send him anything. He may wonder why you don't seem to care. Have you moved on and forgotten HE exists?
The guys on my thread tell me over and over that he must think you have moved on in order to wake up. I think their advice is good.
In any case, good luck with the freelance work and your own business. Keep on getting out there and GAL-ing. And come here to vent, that is why we are all here. We get it!
Oh and PS: I know it feels like if you don't reply to him and go NC that you will never speak to him again. But how is that possible? You can always contact him in the future, any time you want!
Hugs, LisaB
vossy, I cannot recall your entire situation, but focusing on the communication issue at hand, I would say definitely NC. It is not rude, and he will not see it that way. He will see it as you having had enough, not 'oh wow, why is she being rude to me?' I would not even send him anything for his bday, or at least as of today, not be planning it. Why build his bday up in your mind today and spend the next 8 weeks dwelling on it? Not a good recipe for detaching. If you happen to remember his bday, and feel like it, yea, a simple text or email 'happy bday' and that is it.
Unfortunately when you are NC and have no reason (like kids) to force contact, you worry about never having contact again. I get it. But never say never because as Lisa said, you can always contact him in the future. However, your real fear I believe is NC not working at saving your relationship. Well, I will tell you that NC will NOT save your R by itself. NC is the first step. What NC does is it allows your WAS to understand what life is like without you. Believe me, you are not the only one thinking about the long history you have had. He will be thinking of it as well. He will have doubts. Like this wedding he is going to. Even the hardest heart will have memories of their own wedding when attending one. He may even get mushy/emotional and reach out. And I would reject it. A fleeting emotion is not enough to begin to rebuild a relationship. Let him stew in the emotions alone. Let him go through the emotions of the memories you two had. Because at that moment, he will be thinking of the positives. Jumping in yourself 'may' provide him the temporary emotional support he is looking for, but it also 'may' introduce negative feelings/memories. I wish I could explain what I am trying to say a little better.
I am sorry I cannot recall your entire situation or maybe I would be able to offer a little more.
Best of luck to you!
Vossy, I have several friends who had first marriages with no kids (kids came with the second marriage). Every one of them said that moving out was the hardest thing they've ever done. Most of them are still in touch with the ex, even happily married and with kids in the current marriage. The ones who aren't were basically rescued from abusive relationships, which clearly isn't the case here. When they talk about their exes it is clear there is a place in their hearts reserved for those people -- and without exception they are the ones who walked away, not the ex.
My point is... Kids are an excuse to be in contact, not a reason. When my H and I interact only about the kids, it feels like no contact because it's just a business exchange. Your ex has reason to contact you, even without kids and without finances. That reason is you. A long relationship leaves a mark, no matter what.
I don't know what you should do about NC and the wedding. I can barely navigate my own situation.
but if you think it's the right choice for you and the only thing stopping you is fear, that fear may not have as much substance as you think.
Whatever you decide to do, do it with confidence.
Vossy,
Congratulations on the new freelance gig! That's so exciting. And good for you for remembering to treat yourself to something special like a pedicure. You can enjoy a nice walk on the beach and admire the cute toes.
I just read the last 3 pages of your sitch and you've received no advice. It seems to me that you think by going n/c your x won't contact you. Every person thinks that. Will he/she think I don't love them anymore? How can I do that to *them*? I love him/her. Think about that. Really think about that. It doesn't work that way. I think you are afraid he's going to think you are mad at him. Your x knows you love and him and did not want the R to end. He knows exactly where you are and how to reach you. But what if he's too prideful? Then that is on him. And says a great deal about his character. He could be emailing you to a) stay in contact b) ease his guilt c) both.
I know you mentioned people make it sound like your sitch is hopeless. I don't believe that to be the case at all. I don't say this to be harsh and everyone can crack out a 2x4 with a vengeance with what I'm about to say. The reality is at BD your R as you know it is DONE. Whether it's a WAS, MLC, etcetera. It's over as you know many people (and understandably so) clutch on to "we were together 8, 10, 15, 25 years. How can this be it?" The reality is that you can rebuild your r. Doesn't mean it can't happen. You can always have hope. That's perfectly fine. However, just from my perspective, you appear to be holding on a bit tightly. Occasionally, things happen and there doesn't appear to be a legitimate explanation. Sometimes those answers come with time.
So respond to the emails if you want in your own time. I think NC may be good for you now.
Sounds like some exciting things in your life:-) keep it up!
Okay, you got me. All of you. I'll do it
You're right, that's a risk but you're worth that risk. Right now you're a crutch and that's all. You deserve more than that. SO MUCH MORE!
I appreciate your cheerleading, I really do, and I believe you. I am worth it. Unfortunately, I'm not willing to accept 100% of this risk. I won't be able to let it end right here.. but I am going to go NC until this bday and see what happens. Why not, right? What have I got to lose?
During this NC period (are you committing?) perhaps you can formulate an email in your head that is brief and direct that basically says, "it's been real and it's been fun but I'm looking for love and I deserve that".
I don't think I could send an email like that.
I told myself I wasn't going to contact him or reply for X number of days or until X date and then I did it. No matter what he said or did I just didn't reply. I told myself, hey, I have a busy fun life and I don't have time to respond. But if I want I can respond later, after X date.
We do have a lot in common, LisaB. I'll be watching your thread with an eagle eye! Unfortunately, I feel like my H is a bit of a mope, and will probably be like "Well, I made my bed, I guess she doesn't want to talk to me ever again." I don't see it bothering him in a positive way.
In fact, he once said as much. Back in March (or so) I said "What would happen if I said I can't do this chatty thing anymore and said we can never talk again?" and he said "Well, I would be upset but I guess I would understand that it was my actions that forced that."
Who knows what I am supposed to make of that.
However, here is an idea. He would expect you to say happy birthday, right? So why not throw a wrench in his expectations and NOT send him anything. He may wonder why you don't seem to care. Have you moved on and forgotten HE exists?
I definitely don't think I could just not email, as much as I would like to, I would feel too much guilt. Especially since (a) we had a big fight back in 2006 when he basically ignored my bday and (b) he did make an effort this year to email me on my bday.
But what I *could* do is wait until the last minute on his bday (i.e. 11.50pm) to send the email. In his bday email to me, he made it clear he wanted me to have it when I woke up that day..
That's probably the best I could do!
I know it feels like if you don't reply to him and go NC that you will never speak to him again. But how is that possible? You can always contact him in the future, any time you want!
This is so true and so obvious, yet I didn't think of it! Thank you! This is probably the only way I'll be able to get through NC.
Why build his bday up in your mind today and spend the next 8 weeks dwelling on it? Not a good recipe for detaching.
Don't worry, I'm not someone who spends a lot of time dwelling. If this is my plan, I'll put it in action and that'll be that. I'll just get back to working on other things and probably, happily, not think much about it until the bday.
Even the hardest heart will have memories of their own wedding when attending one. He may even get mushy/emotional and reach out.
We weren't married. We probably would have been, but I didn't want to. Not because of anything to do with him, but I just don't care about marriage.. we always said we were "as good as" married though. Apparently not
Ha.
I wish I could explain what I am trying to say a little better.
I got you.
Whatever you decide to do, do it with confidence.
Eek!
The reality is that you can rebuild your r. Doesn't mean it can't happen. You can always have hope. That's perfectly fine. However, just from my perspective, you appear to be holding on a bit tightly. Occasionally, things happen and there doesn't appear to be a legitimate explanation. Sometimes those answers come with time.
You are right that what I am struggling most with is answers, etc. In terms of the day to day, I don't need him. I haven't cried (about him) since May. I don't need him to change a lightbulb etc. I'm quite okay alone. But, I am a very logical person, so it is hard for me to not be able to put 1 and 1 together and get 2. Sometimes I think it would be easier if there was a PA (and I mean no offence to the people who have had to deal with PAs) because at least then I would understand it all.
I don't struggle with him not being here as much as it seems. In fact, I feel very happy, in many ways. My life is the best it's been in a long time.. I am really enjoying it. It just makes me sad because this is the exact life "we" talked about for years.. and here I am enjoying it.. and he doesn't want to be a part of it. Meanwhile, the life we talked about leaving behind? He's still living it. That makes me sad for him.. he's struggling and doesn't realise it.
Absolutely, I see with clear eyes that NC is the right move for right now.. I know I can make it to his bday. Beyond that, I'll figure it out when the time comes.
I really appreciate you all for chiming in, though. It's helpful to get feedback from people who have lived it. My parents try hard, but my mum talks from the perspective of a one-time WAS and my dad doesn't talk at ALL, despite the fact he was a one-time LBS and could really help me
Well, it's been 7 weeks since he wrote, which makes it about 10 weeks since he's heard from me... so that's about two months of NC, around about.
In terms of the relationship, NC has done nada one way or the other. I haven't heard from him and don't expect to. During the early months after BD, he made it a point to explain that he stopped saying "I love you" because it wasn't fair and he made it a point to explain that he takes his time to write back to me because he doesn't want to give me the wrong impression. So I imagine this is similar. Even if he IS feeling anything because of this NC period, he's probably not going to reach out to me, because that would give me the wrong impression.
So as it stands, I imagine I will have to contact him if I ever want to hear from him again.
In terms of doing NC, it hasn't been hard at all. It's not like it's a huge shift, anyway. It's more just me taking control, rather than not.
I've been GAL-ing along the same lines as before. I had a fun day out with a friend a few weeks ago (you may remember I only know one person in this city). I told her about the end of my R that same day, but stressed that I didn't want to talk about it. I've told my entire extended family too now, and other friends by email. (I know it seems strange that I've only just told everyone, but that was because of a separate issue that I can't get into here). So, now everyone knows.
I don't know how I feel at this point about anything. I do still love him very much, but it's hard to say I'm in love when I've really spend no time with him in a VERY long time.. you could almost say I've dropped the rope in a sense, since there is no contact at all. I am basically taking it all day by day. I can't do anything about our R at this point.. so it will have to come from him if it is ever going to change. So when I start to think about it, I just tell myself I need to just keep doing what I'm doing and if that day comes, it comes.
None of this really makes sense, reading back.
How does it not make sense?
I just feel like I'm rambling.. my thoughts in my head are confused still, so I can't imagine how it comes across on screen.
It doesn't feel like NC has changed anything. I don't regret it, but it hasn't changed anything. I don't feel better or worse. It hasn't been easy or hard. It hasn't brought us closer or (seemingly) pushed us further apart. I am fine; for the most part, I'm happy. I don't know how he is. I don't even know what he looks like anymore.. I haven't even seen his face since May. It's almost just surreal.
I don't know how you spend every waking minute knowing someone for 10.5 years.. and then suddenly, zilch. I don't know how it's possible that it could go from being "normal" to me not even knowing what he looks like.
What you said makes sense to me. My H also said he didn't want to talk to me, or sit by me at the kitchen table, or whatever, so that I wouldn't "get my hopes up." I agree that it's hard to feel love towards someone that you don't talk with or see. I was just thinking that in the car today, actually - it's hard for me to feel like I even like him, much less love him. I really don't know anything about what he's doing or what he's experienced these past months. It does kinda feel like he's a stranger now. I think Maybell (?) had posted somewhere about really needing to rebuild from the ground up and not being able to pick up where we left off if we ever do R, which I can so see - how could you pick up when so much time and missed experiences have passed? I don't know that NC has changed much about the situation for me either in terms of drawing H closer or pushing him away. But I do know that the distance has helped so that he's on my mind not quite so constantly, so I still consider that a positive.
I was also just thinking yesterday that I was having trouble picturing H's face in my mind, unless I look at pictures! I've seen him twice since early June, for no more than 5 min. each time. I guess that should also be considered a positive because based on the pics I've seen via f-book, he's not much to look at lately
We were together for 10 years and I hear how it is so strange to be so close to someone..and then nothing.
KGirl, I think you and I actually have one of the more similar situations, so it's nice to hear about someone else feeling the same things.
It does make it a LOT easier, so thank you
My ex's parents have been separated since 1999. At some point around 2006/2007 they briefly tried to reconcile. Now, that is seemingly off the table, as his father has been living with someone else since 2008. I don't believe his mother wants a reconciliation, even if it was a possibility, but she also hasn't moved on in any way. They still do their taxes together, since they're technically still married. So my ex doesn't exactly have a great example to go by when it comes to figuring **** out.
Me, on the other hand.. my mother was a WAS and they R after 6 months and are still happily together many, many years later, so I DO have a great example.
You just can't make this stuff up!
Yes - without kids (at least, non-adult ones) it feels different because there aren't opportunities for conversation, connection,to show what we've changed,etc. H and I periodically email or text about bills or things like that but those go something like "I'm forwarding you the water bill, below" and he replies "OK, thanks." And that's it. I really don't want to be in a situation like your X's parents where you're in limbo for so long, but I wonder where the line is between where we are, and where they are? My H's parent situation is also interesting and I wonder how that influences him. MIL has essentially told me they are just married for convenience, and that when the kids were younger she had actually approached her pastor about D and pastor said "God wants you to be married for a reason." She said he is a good grandfather (not a good father) so maybe that's the reason? MIL, SIL,and H have even had conversations in front of me about how they hoped his smoking/drinking would kill him sooner rather than later so MIL could potentially meet someone new. They are only married because divorce is "bad." H had told me around BD that he didn't want to end up like his parents so that's why he had to do this... I still don't see what about us reminded him of his parents, but maybe any M would stress him out/make him feel that way regardless of how good or bad it was.
Well, there's no doubt it has *some* influence, even if it's absurd. In my X's case, it almost amuses me, because he goes out of his way to ensure he is nothing like his dad, yet he is JUST like him in this particular way. If I pointed that out though, it would just infuriate him.
In terms of my X's parents, it's not a good situation. The limbo went on far, far too long, and now that it's no longer limbo, it's just one of those things where I think mentally no one can move on until there is a line drawn (i.e. divorce).
It's funny that you mention about bills, etc. I know I am getting mail where my ex lives, yet he never tells me about it or forwards it to me. That's irritating.
Well, tomorrow is my ex's bday. As I mentioned before, I will be writing him an email - DB or no DB. I would feel awful if I didn't.
It seems to me that this two months of NC has done nothing. It hasn't caused him to reach out.. although it may/may not have caused him to think. I wouldn't know. But either way, I may have to reassess what I am doing. I may need to go back to the friendly emails, simply because at least that keeps the contact open.
A quick question, though. I still have a bunch of things with him. To him, they may seem pretty trivial, and they mostly are - books and such. But there is one thing that is very meaningful to me, but HE wouldn't know it. (To him, it's just a magazine, but to me, it's a magazine that mentioned my first business. He might guess, but probably not..) Anyway, I can't afford to have these things shipped to my country right now but I don't want him to throw it all out.. I don't *think* he would but you never know. Should I mention this stuff?
Quick update.
I sent the bday email, as I said I would. Made it light and friendly, didn't ask any questions or put in anything that *needed* a reply. I gave a very basic update on what I've been doing, simply because this is the only way I can show that I am GALing. I gave subtle hints at social activities, but didn't explain anything in detail.
Of course he hasn't replied. That angers me, simply because I think if someone says happy bday, you say thank you. You don't wait three weeks because if you email too soon they'll think you want them back. It almost amuses me that he still thinks I'm SO desperate to have him back that he has to hold out. I am very much over the game play. I want the "thank you" email NOW so I can go back to NC and stop being so anxious. After all that time of NC, it made me realise how anxious I am when we are not-NC.
With that said, I have hit a rough patch emotionally. I had some sort of seizure/lapse of consciousness on Sunday, which I've never hard and was hugely scary. Had blood tests, waiting on results. All of this, alone. Days like these make me realise how alone I am.
And this coming weekend it will be one year since BD. It feels surreal. I don't even know what my feelings for H are right now. I just know that I'm sick of thinking about it. And trust me, I try very hard to distract myself.. but sometimes the feelings just pop up when you least expect them to. I look forward to the day that they fade slowly away..
I'm really sorry. I hope you're ok.
Thanks, Maybell. I just need to mope this week. I'll get through it, I know that. I never thought I could get through what I've been through in the last year, so at least now I know I can.
Hey, Vossy. Just catching up on your sitch. I recall coming across it a while ago but didn't pick up on the fact that we might be neighbours. Sorry to hear about your recent health scare. Hope all is ok there? Feel free to reach out by private means (if there is a way to do that here?) if you need more local support. It's scary to be alone when these things happen.
Thanks ganb8te! I actually kept my geographical location fairly quiet, simply because I think I put WAY too much info in my very first post and I don't ever want to be identified by anyone. But you and I actually have a LOT in common.. unfortunately I don't think these boards allow private communication OR the swapping of personal details??? Someone correct me if I'm wrong..
As for my health scare, who knows what happened.. I get the blood test results tomorrow I think. I'm not that nervous though, although maybe I should be!
I think if you click on "my stuff" and add someone as a buddy, you can then send them a message
Hmm. I've tried that in the past and it didn't work. Thanks anyway, raliced.. maybe I'm missing something.
I think personal messaging is disabled but I've seen people put their contact info in a post and then delete or edit it a few minutes later after it is seen. Not following the rules but just saying...
You might be able to find a way to connect on the Facebook page that won't put you at risk of getting booted off the boards.
Ok - let me read the rules again and see if I can figure something out.
Good luck with the test results today, Vossy!
Sorry for the lack of reply, ganb*te, Maybell and LisaB and thanks for your ideas. I'll try think too..
It was my one year BD anniversary last week; the same day as claire. I decided to avoid this site for a few days, simply because I wanted to create as few reminders of BD as possible. Obviously, that's not really possible.. but I had to try.
Last night I had a dream about my ex. It was pretty vivid. I was with him, in his country, begging for him to come back to me. He kept acting like he was on the verge of it, but then I asked him if he was with someone else and he smirked and said yes. "She" was a mother of two, which is amusing now that I'm awake. While I was asleep, the whole thing was like torture. I've always been someone who is deeply effected by my dreams, so waking up that morning was horrible.
Interestingly, though, during the night (while I had that dream) he wrote me an email.. his reply to my bday email from about ten days ago. He was friendly, as usual, but there were a couple of noticeable differences. (1) He brought up something that had happened during our travels around Europe years ago. (2) He rebuffed some of my self-deprecating humour and said I was "good" at something. (3) He said it was nice to hear from me.
All *very* little things in the grand scheme of things, but he hasn't said anything nice about me this whole time; he hasn't acted like he cares one or the other if I write; and he hasn't brought up anything to do with memories of our relationship - so that was interesting.
I find myself in a pickle, really. I have 100s of unanswered questions in my mind. I find myself truly, truly hurt by all this, and I don't know how to get past that. On a daily basis, I'm fine. I haven't cried in months and I just go about my business, doing what I need to do. It's more that I worry what effect this will have on me in the future. I don't know that I feel like I could trust him or any other man, ever again. I feel like my confidence is shot. I spent more than 10 years being told how we were soul mates, we'd be together forever, etc. I was told that 2 hours before BD. How do I believe anyone, or anything, ever again?
I also feel like I need an answer as to why his family never reached out. I lived with his mother for four years.. I felt like we were pretty close. They all accepted me as though I was their DIL/SIL. I treated his nephews as though they were my own and they loved me as though I was their aunt. The fact that not one single one of them reached out, after they found out the news, really hurts.
I know I can get through this and whatever will be, will be.. and that's fine. I am okay, and I will be okay either way. I have managed to survive the worst year of my life, and come out the other end, so that's something. I just wish that my ex could figure his chit out, one way or the other. I wish that for his own sake.
I have always had this fear that one day I'll "wake up" and be 40 or 50 and wonder where the years went and what I did with them. And I think that actually WILL happen to him, if he doesn't get it together. But he is such a procrastinator by nature (his whole family is - his parents still aren't D even though they split up in 1999 and don't get along) that I don't think he sees it as an issue.
This is just a ramble. Please excuse me
You are so young, and you've learned so much. You are awake now! Don't worry about 40 or 50.
Hey, Vossy. Taken a while to get back you your thread. Sorry.
Aren't dreams bizarre? The other night I had one - H was with a OW and I just found out who it was…a friend from high school who I haven't seen or spoken to in 16 years!
Interesting that your BF made contact and there were a few little differences that you noticed. I'm totally with you on the whole wanting answers thing. I guess we may have to face the possibility that we never get them and move ourselves forward regardless. It does sound like you are doing ok on that front.
Let me know if you want to connect (absolutely no pressure - seriously!) The rules say no exchanging of private contact information and suggests that other websites are designed to facilitate that. I'm sure we can figure something out...
vossy, you may never know why that happened (nor will I). My H's family never reached out to me either. Try not to spend too much time scrutinizing the past and the things that others are doing or not doing for you. It's a dead end, and emotionally draining as well. Instead, look ahead and make goals for your future, or even just for your day ahead. BD anniversaries are hard, but they only have as much significance as you give them. Sending good vibes your way.
Hi Vossy,
Just another side of the coin, some of my WAH's family contacted me after BD to tell me they were sorry to hear the news and hoped I was OK. Of course that was very nice and caring, but you know what? It made me feel worse! It's like they took the time to break up with me too, if you know what I mean.
I guess it should be comforting that they care, but it hurt to see their messages of pity, and really made the split seem much more real and permanent.
So, maybe be a little happy that you haven't heard from them. Maybe they don't want to "break up" with you.
Hugs, Lisa
Hi all..
Thanks for the nice bunch of replies.. I missed them somehow, even though I've been visiting every day.
I've had a rough week.. for the life of me, I cannot fall asleep this week. And it's one of those things where the more I think about it, the worse I make it. So glad it's the end of the week now and sleep doesn't matter as much. Luckily, I just went and bought some weird "pressed" juice for an EXORBITANT amount of money and that actually has energised me, even if it has turned me broke.
I appreciate, LisaB, your idea that they don't want to "break up" but they kinda have. I mean, I haven't heard from them in a whole year. My mother and his mother used to send each other Christmas cards, FGS. It's just complete and utter radio silence.
I'm considering writing them (his mother and his sister) each a letter in time for Thanksgiving. Just saying hello and if they want to stay in touch, I'm open, and thanks for everything over the years, blah blah. I feel like it might at least make me feel better, JUST in case they were waiting to hear from me. And I would genuinely like to stay in his nephews lives.. they were my little BFFs. We'll see.
Ganb8te.. I would definitely like to connect somehow.. just maybe later in the month? My allergies are playing up (do you get hayfever? It's been such a bad season!), next week I have a big project and the following week I'm away.. between now and the end of Nov I'm sure I can think of a way to surreptitiously send my details. Maybe I can telepathically send thm..
My mil acted nuttso, she talked to me as if I had no idea who she was. She refused to use my name and treated me like she was meeting me for the first time ever.
That was bizarre. His sister refused to be anything other than cold. Yet since she had a stroke and the family treated her like a childish stupid idiot I was her biggest defender, I sat with her one day when she cryed about how they hated her. I defended her and stood up for her. Yet she still kissed me off. I treated her better than her own mother.
Their loss as far as I see. Same for you bossy, their loss.
Hey, I'm not bossy
!!!!
Yep, end of Nov works for me. If telepathy doesn't work, perhaps we could just arrange to be somewhere at the same time. I live in Dhurst by the way.
I went to visit my parents in November and due to family stuff ended up staying longer than I expected. Since then, I've experienced a whirlwind few weeks busy with work and sickness and just life, I guess.
And I thought I was doing okay. I did send my ex an email and I tested the waters by saying "I miss you." Received a pleasant email back, but he did not refer to that statement. I figured as much, and that's okay. I had no expectation that he would mention it, so my expectations weren't dashed. Fine.
But today, I feel absolutely awful. Yesterday's siege/hostage crisis in the city I live in was troubling for me, due to a past event in my life that I won't get into. But my ex would know exactly how I was feeling yesterday, probably better than anyone. And I haven't heard a peep from him.
I know he would have ways of knowing I was physically safe, although I don't know if he bothered to find out. But if he wanted to, he easily could. What bothers me is that he doesn't care enough to reach out to find out if emotionally I am okay. He would know exactly what yesterday's events would do to me, and there's not a word from him. So, I guess it has really hit home how little he wants me in his life, how we've reached a stage where we don't even check in on each other to see if we're okay.
I'm struggling with this all over again. Not wanting to be with me right now is one thing, but not even caring about me. That's a whole new ball game.
Vossy, sorry to hear that you had a rough few days. Even without the past life events, I feel similarly about many of the things you say. H didn't ask if I was ok. He didn't send anything to say he was ok. Even my sisters were asking me about him, and one of them lives in the UK. It's like there is no "care factor" which hurts a lot. I can't imagine ever finding myself in a place where I don't care about someone who shaped my life so much.
But that says a whole lot more about out H/BF than it does us. Maybe it's the fog or maybe it's a serious personality flaw. Either way it ain't good and it bites to be on this side of it.
Hey Vossy, now that H is confirmed for Monday it opens up the weekend a little more. Let me know if you are around and if you want to meet up at CQ.
Oh gosh, ganb8te.. I literally JUST saw this! I don't really visit my own thread anymore.. how embarrassing. Um, I'm super busy over the next few weeks as my sister is coming to visit from overseas.. but I'm available around Valentine's Day and beyond!
Ha ha. No problem! But I do think we should do this. It was nice seeing all the vets talk about people they've met up with on Raliced's lovely thread. Maybe get in touch on my thread closer to the time?
Totally. I'm putting it in my calendar now!