From labug:
"YOu said you planned to read DR this weekend. Have you started?"
_________________________
Yes, it showed up yesterday and I read chapter 1 and skimmed some other topics.
I will read more today and tonight,
Thanks for checking up...
Hey Labug are you in New Mexico, what part of the desert?
Has anybody had their wife run to another man than come home after living with other man and reconciled?
Just curious as to the success rate of getting them out of the fog while still in it?
You. Dan she is coming back to the house.........Not you? Why would you let her back in without reconciling?
let me try that again. You mean she is coming back to the house, and not you. Why would you let her back in without reconciling the M?
Ok so this is what happened. We met at the collaborative divorce table to see if an in-house separation would work for a bit, just until we paid down some debt. It was going to be tough to pay all our expenses and $1,200.00 per month for rent for her plus buying furniture etc.
I at first when she went to Israel had no problem. But then when she came back with OM and stayed with him for five more weeks I was not for it. But she is on the mortgage with me. So they said I can't legally lock her out.
So the fact that I saw all her clothes in the closet and her favorite teddy gone, and these new skirts that I think are a little short for a woman over fifty no matter what shape she's in I was like, forget now I don't want her here.
Also when she told OM she was moving home ( he's played this entire violence angle,) he purchased her a ticket for Israel in June! I know when she leaves again I am going to have to tell her to not come back...I won't be able to deal with it.
It's a nightmare
let me try that again. You mean she is coming back to the house, and not you. Why would you let her back in without reconciling the M?
We are both living. In the home..in seperate rooms. It's a big house.
Well today is a tough one. Another sad milestone.
My wife will be in New Mexico at a Seder with OM and his friends while her family is on the east coast.
First time in 30+ years she won't be with us! and first holiday her kids will be knowing mom is off with some pos womanizer!
Just great !
Hey Labug are you in New Mexico, what part of the desert?
New Mexico is the Chihuahuan desert.
As I said, let her go.
If she moves back to the house, hopefully there's a separate entrance to the basement.
And while this might be best for your family financially, your family's emotional health isn't the concern of your "team." How do you think this will affect your son who is still at home. That should be your concern.
You also talk about strategies. DB isn't about strategies, it's about changing you, and right now that would be LRT and going dark. Going dark is to allow you time to take control of you, to become more responsive and less reactive.
You can't get her out of her "fog", make her love you, change her mind, that's all under her control. You only control you.
Oh ok...
Anyway, did you see my other replies to your questions etc...
I had to start a new thread.
As I said, let her go.
If she moves back to the house, hopefully there's a separate entrance to the basement.
And while this might be best for your family financially, your family's emotional health isn't the concern of your "team." How do you think this will affect your son who is still at home. That should be your concern.
You also talk about strategies. DB isn't about strategies, it's about changing you, and right now that would be LRT and going dark. Going dark is to allow you time to take control of you, to become more responsive and less reactive.
You can't get her out of her "fog", make her love you, change her mind, that's all under her control. You only control you.
I have not replied to any of her texts etc since she left.
I don't want to control or manipulate her in anyway I just want to show her how much I love her!
Also, I have a question, she and my older son are supposed to meet this comming Sunday. She wants to drive up and back in one day. It's five hours each way.m she asked me to go with her to share driving responsibilities, and who knows why else ?
I have had three different opinions,
1)Go with her it's five hours each way to reconnect without arguing or even talking.
2)Don't go with her it's her problem not yours, she's fired you as a husband.
3)Do what's in your heart, it won't effect your marriage or her whether you do or not, it's all about what you want.
I am so lost as what to do!
Can you go with no expectation and not stray into R talk?
I think she wants to share the drive for just the reasons she stated. You're already mindreading about why she's asked you to go so I have my doubts you can do the drive without expectations.
This one decision won't make or break anything because in your W's mind, she's gone, no longer your W, but you do share children so she's attached to you for life in that way.
This is the more important issue:
And while this might be best for your family financially, your family's emotional health isn't the concern of your "team." How do you think this will affect your son who is still at home. That should be your concern.
Can you go with no expectation and not stray into R talk?
I think she wants to share the drive for just the reasons she stated. You're already mindreading about why she's asked you to go so I have my doubts you can do the drive without expectations.
This one decision won't make or break anything because in your W's mind, she's gone, no longer your W, but you do share children so she's attached to you for life in that way.
You make an excellent point. Plus can she go without telling me what she did in New Mexico?
I would have to make a conscious effort to act is if we are just. Couple going for A drive.
The stuff about her being gone etc. Do you feel were done?
Also I am now thinking that had she had her own apartment, she would have had to return to an apartment with no son, no pets, nothing except herself after dropping OM at the airport after spending over two months with him everyday. She would see what it's like to be divorced or even what it will be like if she and he stay together.
Now as upset as she will be she will know she's got her son her house and me!
What she does or says is for her to deal with, you only have control of you and your reactions.
You're done for now, who knows about tomorrow.
You don't know how she'll feel being in an apt by herself, she may love it. You're mindreading.
Did you read the DR book? What did you get from it?
PLEASE HEAR ME OUT.
Had a great session with the Marriage Coach today. He said that I appear to be in a much better place then I was a few weeks ago (Must be all my board supporters!). We discussed boundaries and rules. He said that he can see the way my wife tries to seduce me with her eyes and her facial expression; it was noticed by all at the table. He said she does not want to completely let me go; He agreed the more I play “Hard to get” the more I 180 her the more she gets caught up and frustrated as to why her antics are not seducing me.
He did state that getting her own apartment or not won’t have an effect she’s months away from waking up. He pointed out how she is very very protective of OM, almost too where he is her son. He said that OM has no means is not smart is not the smartest tour guide. He does not understand what she sees in him. He also said that I have been misinterpreting my IC, she’s not saying STBXW is a true liar, it’s that she’s like OJ Simpson, she’s so caught up in her fantasy and lies and so controlled by OM and her feelings that she’s not in reality anymore she does not know what’s real.
The thing is he said I am better looking more intelligent have more in common with her, but for some reason she has been seduced by his needs. But tells the coach how she wants to work out with me , go to dinner with me, (He was saying this with a total look of utter disdain on his face)
What I found amazing is that she has said I was to needy, he said first of all she’s more codependent on me then me her, also that based on what he learned about OM , he is 100x more needy then me, has serious commitment issue, and eventually she will tire of him or vice versa.
His comment to me is I know you love her, I know you want to protect her, but you need to realize that a divorce is just a piece of paper, that she’s not going to let you leave her life.’
THAT STEVE HAS TO AND SHOULD LEAVE HER LIFE, which is the only way for me to grow. He said the in-house separation will only work if she honors my boundaries.
He is drawing up a plan B in case she does not.
His prediction, I will move on, my sons will detach from her. She will lose her job and then OM, she will come back to me begging and pleading for forgiveness…but, I may have moved on and found a woman that does not try to hook me by my anxiety and then attack me over it..In other words a woman who functions in a normal loving and mature way.
I read a lot of DR. I have to read the Infidelity chapters npw
So with all this information what are you going to do about yourself?
Work on myself .
And that I must must protect my boys and show them what its like to be a man!! That is whats most important , what my two sons think and know about their role as a man and how to handle women who try to manipulate them.
"how to handle women who try to manipulate them."
Okay, I'm curious. So how are you teaching them to treat women who "manipulate" them without sounding resentful against your W (who just happens to be their mother)?
I am not "teaching" so,to,say or talking bad about their mother.
I am just trying to not let her manipulate me.
Kind of what I discussed with the divorce coach.
This is what I was,going to write:
And that I must must protect my boys and show them what its like to be a man!! That is whats most important , what my two sons think and know about their dad!! (its none of my business about what the think of their mother)
And it was changed and corrected by a woman to what I posted.
"protect my boys and show them what its like to be a man!!"
Okay, so what does that mean? What is "being a man" mean?
"(its none of my business about what the think of their mother)"
To a certain degree it is your business because she is still their mom. While you can't control HOW they feel, you can control how they interpret her actions. If you don't teach them how this, they will carry on their own feelings about their mom into their own relationships. You can minimize that.
I just feel like when I tried to protect her,they'd questioned why, and I refuse to poison my sons againsT their mom, she's in a bad place right now and I care for her too much.
In terms of being a man, I feel they need to stick up for themselves and not get walked all over buy their future wives. But they also have a duty to be a good husband and a she secure supporting spouse. Also a real mN does not do what their moms AP has done.
Years ago I met a,woman at work, I was married about five years, at first she was a good friend but then she wanted to hold my hand sit on my lap, etc, she was sending me cards. But she was recently married , and we were married about seven years. My judgement came into play as mulch as I was falling for her. I , me, stopped it, I told her that she's a Newley wed and sometimes after you get married doubt sets in. I also pointed out I was married and loved my wife, hence why I never held her hand, and told her not to sit on my lap. ,but then I said even if I was not married , I feel its inappropriate for a man to start a relationship,with a married woman no matter how unhappy she is or how much she's the initiator. She told me she thought she loved me...I told her that she was mistaken and needed to direct that love at her husband.
I left the company and she was one of the reasons, I have no idea what happened to her.
That to me is part of being a Man!
"I feel they need to stick up for themselves and not get walked all over buy their future wives. But they also have a duty to be a good husband "
I'm not exactly sure how you plan to define this. You just teach them RESPECT.
Well that's kind of what I meant. I will tell you S21 is loaded full of respect.
S15 is very respectful of his teachers, people he meets, but I have been working with his therapist on respect at home. He did tell my wife that he was super angry that her AP said he could be a better father than me, I don't know what he said but she told me as did s15 that she started to cry. She was proud of what he said about me.
But he sometimes due to anxiety will lash out verbally and he nasty to his mother and me, and that is unacceptable . His therapist says he says word for word phrase for phrase the exact things to me that his mother would say to me.
All he tells his mother is she's ugly, and he expressed in therapy he does not mean physically, it's what he has known she's sone to me.
He was the one that first for suspicious last July of what she was up to.
Began taking down pictures of the fateful Israel trip. I also am putting away all the wedding photos.
Biggest issue is I know I was exhausted yesterday, but I got very little accomplished. I did not even do any readings.
I need to really reestablish my focus.. It's effecting my work as well.
Here's something I like to call RANDOM THOUGHTS.
How do you control these RT?
For example while making breakfast this morning:
Wow for all these years I have asked her to leave work on time on Fridays so we can start our weekend, or occasionally when I came back from being away and it was the middle of the week, NEVER HAPPENED , GOT ME TOLD " your not the boss of me I'll get home when I can"
But the last conversation we had about two weeks ago, I get oh it's Friday "he" likes me to leave before Shabbos starts( the Jewish sabbath, oh and he's not one iota religious), I need to get out of work by 5, or oh we have dinner plans HE hates when I leave late remember he sits around waiting for me all day..
These thoughts drive me crazy absolutely out of my mind.
Now I know you will say STOP TALKING TO HER...I HAVE, but she's coming back for this in-house separation, at least for a fee weeks..
I KNOW YOUR ALL GOING TO GET UPSET WITH ME, BUT TONIGHT IS GOING TO COMPLETELY SUCK FOR ME..
ITS NOT BECAUSE SHE IS COMING HOME, ITS BECAUSE TOMORROW HES LEAVING...I KNOW MY WIFE TO KNOW FOR A FACT THAT WHEN SHES DONE WITH HIM TONIGHT HE WILL NEED CRUTCHES TO WALK.
THIS MIND MOVIE IS KILLING ME, IT STARTED ABOUT TWO MINUTES AGO AND ITS CAUSING ME INCREDIBLE PAIN AND PANIC
Stay focused in the present, do not think about the future or the past. Keep bringing your mind back to now and nothing else. That can help. Hang in there.
Stay focused in the present, do not think about the future or the past. Keep bringing your mind back to now and nothing else. That can help. Hang in there.
I am trying god knows I am trying. I just want my wife back that's all I know!
Ok, so 24 hours until Return Day.
I have been given advice to not be home when she returns. To be out and come back after her so that I dont look like I am waiting around like a puppy also so my son does not pick up on my Anxiety.
Its just that I am just a little curious to see how upset she is that Loverboy has left after spending almost 70 days with him..
Wouldn't it be better to go out and GAL and do something you enjoy, and come back home feeling happy and relaxed, knowing that you are working on becoming a better person for YOU--rather than finding some brief joy in her misery? Do you really think you'll feel satisfied with whatever attitude she has when she comes in the house? But how would you rather her see YOU?
Stop being so focused on her. Focus on you!
Wouldn't it be better to go out and GAL and do something you enjoy, and come back home feeling happy and relaxed, knowing that you are working on becoming a better person for YOU--rather than finding some brief joy in her misery? Do you really think you'll feel satisfied with whatever attitude she has when she comes in the house? But how would you rather her see YOU?
Stop being so focused on her. Focus on you!
o
Thanks Claire Here is what happened this afternoon.
I went for a quick 30 minute run on the Rail Trail by my house.
While on the trail I had a flood of emotions, we used to run it together. I also started to remember all the Cr@p I used to have to put up with.
Then when I was walking back home for my cool down looking at the houses by me the Kids riding their bikes on the main road (and almost getting plowed by passing cars I might ad) it hit me.
I am just to good a person to deal with all this crap.
I have a great Job, I earn in the top 5% of all earners, I am in great shape, people like me. Everyone I meet I strike up a friendship with.
Its just not worth reliving the past anymore. I have two great Sons, one who is graduating college with honors, he is going to start his life and I have to be there for him..He needs at least one stable parent that he can lean on.
My S15 is applying to the IVYs, what good is a basket case father when the kids that you room with are going to be the children of business executives and leaders...I cant be weak anymore.
Plus I need to be strong and resilient when The Creature from the Jew Lagoon returns to my house. I need to be the one in control, I need to be comfortable in my Castle. I am not the one who ran away, I am not the one who embarrassed themselves in front of his sons and was written disparaging emails.
I am not the one that even the divorce team is looking at in wonderment, I'm the one even the opposing lawyer pulled aside grasped my hand, smiled at me and said its for the best..you don't need her
Why should I bury my head in the sand?
This was what hit me like an exhilarating rush..
then I started laughing thinking now that I figured it out a rutting deer was going to come flying down my driveway and impale me on a tree now that would have been a story!!
Then I said to myself:
Instead of WAW calling it her rebirth I have decided to call it [color:#3333FF]MY rebirth..Death to the old Steve, Long Live the New Steve![/color]
There's a difference between reaching understanding of yourself and resentment/loathing to your W. Sounds like you are going back to the old way of thinking about her that turned her off. If your ultimate goal is to not get a D, then you need to keep your ego in check. It happens all the time.
There's a difference between reaching understanding of yourself and resentment/loathing to your W. Sounds like you are going back to the old way of thinking about her that turned her off. If your ultimate goal is to not get a D, then you need to keep your ego in check. It happens all the time.
Thanks Mr.Bond..I am trying so hard to distance my self and lovingly detach without resenting her. But how do I do this without bringing my horrendous guilt back into it.
For some reason all,the therapists involved seem to attack her and tell me to run away.
Even the collaborative divorce coach who said to me " we don't pick who we fall in love with we just fall in love", question why I still want her as my wife.
"I just want to show her how much I love her!"
"I just want my wife back that's all I know!"
I just reread through this thread, and I haven't seen that you are on a path to this. The divorce coach may have just been asking YOU whether (and why) YOU still want her as your wife (without putting his/her own judgment on it. It doesn't matter what the coach thinks of her--it matters what YOU think of her). If you love her and want her back, then you have to take ownership for your part in the failure of the marriage and make changes in YOURSELF that will show her the future with you would be different. (Or, at the very least, make changes in yourself that would ensure that your next relationship will be different.
"I also started to remember all the Cr@p I used to have to put up with."
"I am just to good a person to deal with all this crap."
Hmmm... What was YOUR part in it, and what can YOU change about yourself?
Focus on YOU.
"I just want to show her how much I love her!"
"I just want my wife back that's all I know!"
I just reread through this thread, and I haven't seen that you are on a path to this. The divorce coach may have just been asking YOU whether (and why) YOU still want her as your wife (without putting his/her own judgment on it. It doesn't matter what the coach thinks of her--it matters what YOU think of her). If you love her and want her back, then you have to take ownership for your part in the failure of the marriage and make changes in YOURSELF that will show her the future with you would be different. (Or, at the very least, make changes in yourself that would ensure that your next relationship will be different.
"I also started to remember all the Cr@p I used to have to put up with."
"I am just to good a person to deal with all this crap."
Hmmm... What was YOUR part in it, and what can YOU change about yourself?
Focus on YOU.
Thanks...I know my part boy do I...
I am starting to understand.. Forget her and her part just worry about fixing and changing me!
The quote on labug's signature from Ghandi is in my brain over and over today.
Anyway, I have a really really full day today.
Lots of driving and client visits. A little down caused I missed the gym. Took yesterday off because my knees were aching from the heavy leg days I have been doing...I am not getting any younger ya know!
So I figure I will be rolling in around 8 Am debated staying over, but my appointments tomorrow are fairly close to home.
So do I get home after my WAW returns from drooping her AP at the airport or Before? That is my internal debate...
Issue is I don't know what time to expect her.
See I figure I am going to have a good day for me...
I even scheduled some quiet time will I am up near the Adirondacks to just enjoy some fresh air and cleanse my soul.
I just don't want to seem like I am anticipating the return like Queen Elizabeth is coming for a visit, let's also not forget she is not returning for Reconciliation she's returning as if she's temporarily living at her brothers house.....
If you don't know what time to expect her, don't worry about it. Do your thing. Do something you'll enjoy. Personally I would stay out-- meet a friend for dinner or go see a movie. GAL. Perhaps she is anxious about coming back to the house, too. Would it be easier or harder for her if you were there.
What would put you in a better light? Her finding you sitting on the couch as if you had nothing better than to sit and judge her? Or going out, doing something positive for you, coming back in a good mood, greeting her cordially if she is still awake without anger or judgment?
If you don't know what time to expect her, don't worry about it. Do your thing. Do something you'll enjoy. Personally I would stay out-- meet a friend for dinner or go see a movie. GAL. Perhaps she is anxious about coming back to the house, too. Would it be easier or harder for her if you were there.
What would put you in a better light? Her finding you sitting on the couch as if you had nothing better than to sit and judge her? Or going out, doing something positive for you, coming back in a good mood, greeting her cordially if she is still awake without anger or judgment?
My WAW wants us to do things together like go to the gym, eat dinner out etc. Our Collaborative divorce coach says he's confused, she seems to like me or love me in every way, want to do things with me, but hen at the same time says she is not in love with me the way she is the OM.
Anyhow others have given me the below advice, what can you suggest or do you suggest is the best way to handle her being in the home with me while still having a new relationship ?
Here is the other advice:
Is your Man Cave ready? Did you follow our advice to build yourself a refuge to get away from her?
Go in your Cave and stay there as much as you can when she's milling about the house. When you are ready to leave, have your keys in hand so all you have to do is waltz out the door. By all means, don't be a prisoner in your own home, but don't find excuses to be around her either.
No engaging with her in the common areas...
Anybody have any advice or thoughts on above...I will be returning home this evening and my WAW will be back....
Thanks
The problem is that the other board has a very cut & dry approach... divorce her & throw her under the bus. Is that what you want?! From what I can gather you don't want a divorce, the advice on this board will be VERY different to what other boards advise and I would strongly suggest you stick with one approach as much as possible otherwise your going to be all over the place.
Man cave sounds like a great idea for somewhere to escape to and get away to if/when you want your own space, but to totally ignore her whilst living under the same roof, well I don't see how that would solve anything personally.
From what I can gather you don't want a divorce, the advice on this board will be VERY different to what other boards advise and I would strongly suggest you stick with one approach as much as possible otherwise your going to be all over the place.
I agree with this. You need to choose an approach. Part of the DR book tells you to experiment and monitor the results. How do you know what is working if you are combining approaches?
I don't think you should completely ignore your W while you are both in the same house. You should GAL and do your own thing, but you should also be civil. Have you read about the friendly neighbor-type approach described in some of the other threads here?
Thank you both. That's what I figured, she told the collaborative divorce coach that she enjoys my company, going to the gym. The only thing I don't get is where she wants to take me to the restaurants that she and the AP have gone to!
He even said that it's like she is suppressing her love for me.
I NEED TO READ MORE ABOUT THE NEIGHBOR-type approach.
The only concern I have is the monkey on the branch. She held onto me until she found another branch, she's still slightly unstable on the new branch so she's still connected to me a little, then she decides that I am the better branch, but as soon as she finds another new branch , the nightmare stArts all over.
Well I am certainly no expert-- still figuring this out myself, so take my advice with a grain of salt. But from what you have described about your situation, and the way you have written about your wife, to me it seems like you need to just focus on yourself and show her (and yourself) that you can have a more positive, even-tempered side. Holing yourself up in a "man cave" seems kind of passive aggressive to me. The advice I've been following is to ask myself, "is this likely to draw him closer or push him away?" What if you just acted like a friendly neighbor or roommate? Polite, cordial, but at a slight distance?
Well I am certainly no expert-- still figuring this out myself, so take my advice with a grain of salt. But from what you have described about your situation, and the way you have written about your wife, to me it seems like you need to just focus on yourself and show her (and yourself) that you can have a more positive, even-tempered side. Holing yourself up in a "man cave" seems kind of passive aggressive to me. The advice I've been following is to ask myself, "is this likely to draw him closer or push him away?" What if you just acted like a friendly neighbor or roommate? Polite, cordial, but at a slight distance?
That's what I have been thinking. If I completely withdraw i may loose connection to her.
I just wonder if I stay away if she will miss me ?
Take a breath. Stop wondering and worrying about her--what she is doing or thinking or feeling. And worry about yourself. Detach and GAL. Don't strategize so much. Just try to become the man that only a fool would walk away from.
Take a breath. Stop wondering and worrying about her--what she is doing or thinking or feeling. And worry about yourself. Detach and GAL. Don't strategize so much. Just try to become the man that only a fool would walk away from.
Thanks Claire. I read your thread and see you are going through your own situation. I appreciate you taking the time to post on mine.
I have been figuring if I just be me the man she fell in love with.
It's just that my concern stems from the fact that OM is returning tonight to his country. She plans on going there the end of May but did by cancellation insurance.
It's just hard,she acts as if he's her husband and her and I are just friends.
What I don't get is she says she has not loved me for a long time, but admits that the sex between us was amazing. When I asked how could that be, she said well when I had sex with you it was exciting it's like I was cheating..WTF, she was cheating on AP with husband?.
Anyway..the way she thinks is so illogical that it makes me feel like I am walking on egg shells.
So I am assuming that just being the best me, but taking a friendly neighbor approach is my best option at this time.
Ok so I know the flight was 11 pm. So she should have left the airport at 8. I know I am not supposed to give a hoot, but is am actually worried that the wife is not home.
Now the basement is quiet so she may have come home and gone right to her room so I don't see how upset she is.
It kills me that she's more upset over this predator of hers leaving after 70 days then she is that her marriage of 28 years is dying or her sons hate her...
Now the basement is quiet so she may have come home and gone right to her room so I don't see how upset she is.
This ^^^^^^ is mindreading. I know it is hard, but you really need to focus on you and what you can do instead of focusing so much on your W.
Now the basement is quiet so she may have come home and gone right to her room so I don't see how upset she is.
This ^^^^^^ is mindreading. I know it is hard, but you really need to focus on you and what you can do instead of focusing so much on your W.
I agree but now here is something else making me nutso
So at10:30 the phone started ringing, my son did not want to answer it but I would not either.
It was his mother. She said she will be home by 11:30. So he starts yelling at me , don't ask me any questions don't talk about it blah blah..
I was not going to say a thing.
All I can think of is that Her OM and her were crying in each other's arms, he is such a phony and cries and whines all the time, plane was not leaving until midnight she stayed at the airport to the last minute.
He then came down and said oh by the way she did not seem upset.
So all I could think is she already cried her freaging eyes at.
I don't know why I allowed this..
It would have been so much better if I knew nothing and she was just going to her own place.
The problem is I am having anxiety pangs as if I am waiting for my dedicated loving wife to come home, meanwhile my IC says I am afraid of her and it's really nerves of fear not love.
You seem bat chit addicted to your W and after all she's done to you. All of your posts are about her. STOP IT NOW and get some self-respect back. Why do you care what she's doing? Care about yourself and getting your mind right, stay out of her sandbox.
You seem bat chit addicted to your W and after all she's done to you. All of your posts are about her. STOP IT NOW and get some self-respect back. Why do you care what she's doing? Care about yourself and getting your mind right, stay out of her sandbox.
Your right, I think that's what hurt our marriage my addiction to her.
Thing is she's now addicted to a needy phony childish phony POSOM!
Ok I will focus on forgetting about her.
It's just weird now that she's coming back home...
You all know what's so psycho sick..
I picture myself going down to the kitchen where she's looking at her mail and spinning her around and planting a big deep passionate kiss...
But then I think that's what that disgusting womanizer did before he left and he has the grossest mouth you can imagine...
Focusing on forgetting about her is NOT the same as getting caring about yourself and getting your mind right.
I'm going to be REALLY blunt here Oxford & I mean it with the best intentions, unless you change your attitude & outlook towards this situation you will NOT bring your wife any closer to you.
You spent way too much time focusing on the pain your wife is experiencing because of OM going away - I know you use this place to vent as we all do at times however the amount of focus on your W & OM is so unhealthy for you, your going to drive yourself crazy! You seriously need to work on detaching & not giving the thoughts your having too much room in your head as it's not going to help your situation.
You want to be attractive, calm, happy, confident, strong... Are you giving that impression? You NEED to let go of your marriage, I know it sounds counterproductive as your here to save it but the only way to have any chance of saving it is by letting it go and bringing the focus back round to you.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from, I mean no disrespect, it's so clear from the outside. Focus on YOU!!!
I'm going to be REALLY blunt here Oxford & I mean it with the best intentions, unless you change your attitude & outlook towards this situation you will NOT bring your wife any closer to you.
You spent way too much time focusing on the pain your wife is experiencing because of OM going away - I know you use this place to vent as we all do at times however the amount of focus on your W & OM is so unhealthy for you, your going to drive yourself crazy! You seriously need to work on detaching & not giving the thoughts your having too much room in your head as it's not going to help your situation.
You want to be attractive, calm, happy, confident, strong... Are you giving that impression? You NEED to let go of your marriage, I know it sounds counterproductive as your here to save it but the only way to have any chance of saving it is by letting it go and bringing the focus back round to you.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from, I mean no disrespect, it's so clear from the outside. Focus on YOU!!!
So I did not see her at all last night.
I have to get up now for work.
I will hAve to leave her a note or tell her about the fact that I have to meet her at the financial planners at 2pm.
I have a ten o'clock appointment today.
I am a little panicky for some reason.
I mean I can't feel uncomfortable in my own home.
I am going to have to interact with her.
A few people on the DB board told me that I should just be a friendly neighbor.
So what is my option with her living with me?
I still have not seen her ,I will bet anyone on this board she's going to come downstairs in her best,shortest, hottest, newest business suit.
This is so awkward...man oh man...
Imagine that she is a roommate, but not a friend. (Because she is). Have you ever had a roommate with whom you were friendly, but not "friends"? You can say hello nicely when you see her, but you live your own life and do your own thing. And let her do hers. For ex: if you are going grocery shopping, you *could* say, "hey I'm going to the store, can I get you something? " (but you are not obligated to). But you probably don't say, "hey honey what do *we* need at the store?" Because right now there is no "we", and even though it is the hardest thing to accept, you have to accept it. And focus on you. If that is not yet your mantra, it probably should be!
Living in the same house will be hard for you. And it will be hard for her too. She may not be nice to you. You can choose how to respond--dont take the bait. It will only reinforce that she made the right choice. Set some personal boundaries, which you can do politely without seeming hurt.
Good luck.
Why do you have to tell her that you will meet her at the appointment? Does she know about the appointment? Does she have a means of getting there? I suppose to be friendly you could say, "I hope you settled in ok last night. I will see you at the meeting later." And leave it. You don't have to tell her what you are doing, and you don't have to ask about her.
You a re clearly obsessing over her and making up stories in your head about what she is doing with OM. It's really no healthy and it will indeed drive you crazy.
I didn't have an I house seperationa s he didn't to drop the bomb and move out the very night ( well, he was going to go, but I decided to because we had a 6 month D and I needed help and was having a damn nervous breakdown, so I moved I to my dads for 2 months that very night).
Because she hurt her shoulder (i still believe OM did something), she wants me to go with her to the gym. I was her training partner for 30 year!!
She also wants to go out to movies and meals...Even the Collaborative Divorce Coach finds her actions, wants and needs very weird.
This is the hard part, what do I do in these instances?
I dont think the gym is so bad, its the other stuff..
I can imagine it's very difficult, but you need to make this work. This is where GAL will be of utmost importance to you. What do you do for GAL? You need to keep yourself very busy and make them the last thing on your mind.
Right now she isn't your wife, she is your roommate. Where she goes, what she does, and she does it with is none of your concern, and the same applies to what you do.
College roommate. That's it
Because she hurt her shoulder (i still believe OM did something), she wants me to go with her to the gym. I was her training partner for 30 year!!
She also wants to go out to movies and meals...Even the Collaborative Divorce Coach finds her actions, wants and needs very weird.
This is the hard part, what do I do in these instances?
I don't think the gym is so bad, its the other stuff..
Why do you believe OM did something?
I was at the gym a few weeks ago. She was living in Hotel with OM.
I got a text..
"ARE U OK, I am not I hurt my Shoulder, I fell in the shower"
I called her to see what happened, she said she was in the shower and forgot the soap, she reached out to get it and fell.
She said she pulled her shoulder and bruised her A$$.
She told me he had to run in to help her (mind movie of him picking up my naked wife kills me)
Then she eventually went fo X-Ray they said it was a sprian like her arm got pulled.
I think that she came back from the Gym, he gave her a hard time about something. When she gets angry she gets really crazy manic , I think she ran into the shower angrily and slipped.
We have been together 32 years, I never even saw her slip on the Ice!!!
So if she ran Into the shower and angrily slipped, how did OM hurt her shoulder ?
You need to stop com ting these scenarios in your head.
He keeps focusing on Abuse from our side.. The marriage team says that's all he has and its her excuse for her affair.
The therapist says that it is disconcerting about the violence. He may actually have a violent streak.. He has heard from her for a year before they connected in person about all my negatives. So hes hiding them all from his end..
Your focus seems to be solely on your W and OM. Those are things that are outside your control.
Now the basement is quiet so she may have come home and gone right to her room so I don't see how upset she is.
This ^^^^^^ is mindreading. I know it is hard, but you really need to focus on you and what you can do instead of focusing so much on your W.
I agree but now here is something else making me nutso
You are agreeing with other posters that you need to focus on yourself, but then immediately continue on with posts about your W and OM. You can only control you. Figure out what you need to work on to become the man only a fool would leave and then work on that.
The thing is,she wants me to still do things with her like I am her husband.
How do I detach when she lives in my house, eats in my kitchen wants to hang out,like where the best of friends...
Oxford, you say you're a smart, educated man. What do you think? You detach by CHOOSING not to do things with her or interact with her in any other way than as a casual roommate. Nobody has a gun to her head. It's not like she's going to jump into your car or follow you if you decline to go to the gym with her. The problem here is you don't really want to stop interacting with her. You somehow want this drama. Think about that and OWN it.
"How do I detach when she lives in my house, eats in my kitchen wants to hang out,like where the best of friends..."
By choosing not to.
We just left a meeting with our financial planner.
We were discussing things in the parking lot a bit.
She started crying and of course it leads me right into relationship talk.
We decided to go to dinner since we were starving.
How do I detach and not make her cry
She even said her people are telling her to do what you are all telling me.
The difference is her OM and his friends want her to go with him and your all supporting me getting my wife back!
This has to all be a really really bad dream!
"She started crying and of course it leads me right into relationship talk."
It didn't need to. YOU have control over that.
"She started crying and of course it leads me right into relationship talk."
It didn't need to. YOU have control over that.
Hi Mr.Bond
It's very strange she acts like I am her husband in every way. I had to get some more of my things from what was the master bedroom and while she's talking to me, I had to stop her from undressing. I know it was from habit but she was doing it.
I know I am supposed to detAch because in the same breath she's realizing she has a bottle of cheap men's cologne that her OM forgot.
Then she says she likes the colognes I wear much better.
Me also texts her ten times in two seconds checking on her...
She gets frustrated but if course responds,
Why are you tolerating her keep rubbing her affair in your face?! Some of the info you've said she shares with you must hurt so badly and seems so disrespectful towards you? Do you really want to listen to it?!
Why are you tolerating her keep rubbing her affair in your face?! Some of the info you've said she shares with you must hurt so badly and seems so disrespectful towards you? Do you really want to listen to it?!
I asked her to please stop talking about him or mentioning anything they did together.
She apologized and said she will stop. She does want to spend time with me, go to dinner the gym etc.
As long as it's about us or our son and no OM no relationship talk, is it doable.
I am still reading DR. I am reading that at the same time as Boundaries so,I am only about half done.
There is still a chance of me winning her back. I see that she one argument one idiot move by her OM and she will end it.but who knows The truth only she does.
I am trying so hard to become the man she would never want to leave, I just wonder if thirty-two years of baggage is just to to much...
I desperately need advice here.
We spent the entire day so far together
We went for a walk and somehow got into relationship talking which led to is talking about me VS om
I have to focus on not bringing him up.
I ended up saying some stuff that she probably filed away in her brain
I have to realize that she could repeat this stuff to him when they talk.
I know she's texting him and he's Sexting her
I also know that he is going nuts that she's home
Can you believe he made her promise him that she would not have sexual with me?!
I am her husband! I think it's because she has mentioned he [censored] in bed!
I realize that when we are together he can't come up.
But I don't think she is really in love with him! I thinks he's her dad uh
She does say thigh he immature and a dope!
I know we had some abuse but I don't see her leaving me just for this
I really am In love with her just spending time with her we have such a bond but she's still feeling like she's eventually going I marry this guy!
Do I turn the clock back and act like Michelle recommends in the videos where you ignore the affair.
I mean she loved with the guy for ten weeks he's the only other manages slept with
She says she loves me
I don't know what to do
I seriously feel like i'm banging my head against a brick wall here, i'm absolutely not an expert on DB but I can clearly see that you've been given some fantastic advice from a wide range of people and you seem to be ignoring every single one of them.
You keep acknowledging that you need to stop focusing on your W and OM yet 98% of your posts are about W/OM!! To me this seems like a competition to you, you dont want OM to win the "prize" so you'll do anything it takes to stop that.
I asked her to please stop talking about him or mentioning anything they did together.
She apologized and said she will stop.
Its all well & good you asking HER to stop but it seems YOUR the one also bringing up the conversations about OM!!
We went for a walk and somehow got into relationship talking which led to is talking about me VS om
Because YOU directed the conversation that way!!
I am still reading DR. I am reading that at the same time as Boundaries so,I am only about half done.
I read DB within a day and several times since, I was so desperate to find a way forwards, I cant understand how you haven't found time for this yet?!
I think it's because she has mentioned he [censored] in bed!
She told you she'd said this?
But I don't think she is really in love with him!
She might be, she might not be - that doesnt matter right now! Fact is she's choosing to be in a R with HIM, I know this hurts like hell but you need to ACCEPT this before you can move forwards.
I know we had some abuse but I don't see her leaving me just for this
What abuse?
Boy oh boy, Oxford. I am trying to stay compassionate because I can tell you are hurting. But I'll be blunt-- I don't think anything about your situation will change, and I don't think you will feel any peace, until you take a deep breath, put on your big boy pants, and use at least some of the great advice you have been given here.
You keep asking the same question- "you don't know what to do!" Yet you've been advised several times about just that. What is it about our advice are you having trouble understanding? You don't seem to be a very good listener.
Ok I have committed to not talk about relationship, OM etc.
I guess what I am asking is how do I live with her, in separate bedrooms.
I know everyone says 180 her, but what so I not go for a walk, do I not do things with her.
I looked at some of the posts on Friendly Neighbors, but it's not that much info.
I am going to reread my thread.
I also think I have to stay off of the other more anti marriage sites like AA and TAM.
I guess what I am asking is how do I live with her, in separate bedrooms.
I think the most important thing here is to realise that right now she isnt filling the role of "your wife" as she's chosen to check out of this role, therefore DONT treat her like your wife. Treat her like an aquaintance, be polite but that's as far as it goes.
I know everyone says 180 her, but what so I not go for a walk, do I not do things with her.
You shouldnt be 180
her, DB is for YOU first and foremost to get you into a place where regardless what happens in your marriage you will be happy.
Right now your her fall back guy - Personally I wouldn't be going for walks or to the gym with her, not at this stage. You should be living YOUR life, going out doing YOUR things & working on YOU instead of doing things that your wife asks and spending all of your time worrying about how to act around your wife.
There is a reason they say to "act as if" because at first your acting but quicker than you realise those actions become natural and you'll begin to find yourself moving forwards.
I guess what I am asking is how do I live with her, in separate bedrooms.
I think the most important thing here is to realise that right now she isnt filling the role of "your wife" as she's chosen to check out of this role, therefore DONT treat her like your wife. Treat her like an aquaintance, be polite but that's as far as it goes.
I know everyone says 180 her, but what so I not go for a walk, do I not do things with her.
You shouldnt be 180
her, DB is for YOU first and foremost to get you into a place where regardless what happens in your marriage you will be happy.
Right now your her fall back guy - Personally I wouldn't be going for walks or to the gym with her, not at this stage. You should be living YOUR life, going out doing YOUR things & working on YOU instead of doing things that your wife asks and spending all of your time worrying about how to act around your wife.
There is a reason they say to "act as if" because at first your acting but quicker than you realise those actions become natural and you'll begin to find yourself moving forwards.
Ok I have been reading DR. It's been helping somewhat.
We did go to the gym today and go for a walk because the walk was a catharsis.
I did notice that her texts to OM were not all lovey dovy after our walk.
Thing is I am trying to work on me. I am trying to detach. We only used to go to the gym together on Sat and Sunday.
The rest of the week we pretty much do live seperate lives.
I don't know what she tells OM on the phone but on her texts she does not tell him we are together.
She admitted that he is so freaked out...I did see how he texted her fifteen times today between 10 Am and 11. He is saying I am worried are you ok, what does he think I am going to kill her,? I am madly in love with her.
I just want her to see me for tHe best husband AND the changes I have gone through.
I mean we have. 32 year history not 2 years as friends and eight months.as an EA THEN Pa.
The only reason I went to the gym is because her shoulder is injured..I swear I think the OM did something.
So since I went and did things today isn't it going to be obvious if I just stop??
I know Michele says a lot of affairs burn out on there own.
Her video seemed to tell one to have business as normal and ignore the affair.
From what I can gather you don't want a divorce, the advice on this board will be VERY different to what other boards advise and I would strongly suggest you stick with one approach as much as possible otherwise your going to be all over the place.
I agree with this. You need to choose an approach. Part of the DR book tells you to experiment and monitor the results. How do you know what is working if you are combining approaches?
I don't think you should completely ignore your W while you are both in the same house. You should GAL and do your own thing, but you should also be civil. Have you read about the friendly neighbor-type approach described in some of the other threads here?
That's why I am still doing things. We took a nice walk today the only issue is it ended up,relationship talk. I want that to be the last time that topic comes up.
Take a breath. Stop wondering and worrying about her--what she is doing or thinking or feeling. And worry about yourself. Detach and GAL. Don't strategize so much. Just try to become the man that only a fool would walk away from.
You spent way too much time focusing on the pain your wife is experiencing because of OM going away - I know you use this place to vent as we all do at times however the amount of focus on your W & OM is so unhealthy for you, your going to drive yourself crazy! You seriously need to work on detaching & not giving the thoughts your having too much room in your head as it's not going to help your situation.
You want to be attractive, calm, happy, confident, strong... Are you giving that impression? You NEED to let go of your marriage, I know it sounds counterproductive as your here to save it but the only way to have any chance of saving it is by letting it go and bringing the focus back round to you.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from, I mean no disrespect, it's so clear from the outside. Focus on YOU!!!
Upwards this where I failed a little today, by getting into relationship,talk, the OM s issues and later sex it's not what she wants I can see the sex thing annoyed her. Our MC said that that's because she can not in her mind believe that she was with another man while married, especially one who is warning her against having sex with her own husband...he is such a deek.
Hi Mr. Bond
You wrote on my original,thread in response to one of my posts:
""I have repented over and over about my ills."
That repentance is how you feel that you've forgiven yourself. But evidently your W didn't.
"I know she did not have to go to him, but he is such a Casanova."
But to be honest, if she wanted to be with you she wouldn't have even entertained the thought of going with him.
"I do know she plans on moving home after Aprul 15. So if I am so evil why would she move back home?"
That's what you don't understand. You're not "evil". She just chooses not to be with you right now. Because you share kids together and are married, right now she sees it as a shackle. And again, that's just the way she feels right now.
What you can do right now is to write down the things that used to make her family both things that you did alone and things you did as a family. Slowly work those things in. Continue to go and have fun with you son and do things that she never would have wanted to do.
So my question is do you mean slowly add back,things we did as a Family. Like today going to the gym, going for a walk. But as you may be aware she's still treating me like her friend and still has her OM, even though he is 6,000 Miles away.. Do I continue to add back In more things do I detach. I have come to the point if our marriage ends I will survive I can move on. I have done all my hurting. But now that she's back in my life I feel it will be easier if it ends then what happened. Where she ran away told me to never speak to her again and boom we were,getting divorced. MF'er me having her back being friendly will actually soften the blow she and if it happens.
"How am I supposed to handle her? I keep hearing to do the 180 but it is hard when there is a kid involved and even harder that I am so addicted to her."
It's not hard with a kid at all. I mean I have two kids and was able to detach. You can do it. Just lose the ego and read up on how couples communicate. Use this time to become a student of your W. See what patterns you may be missing.
Not MFer I meant for me having her back...
Are you reading her text messages? You need to stop snooping. Would your W want to be with someone who is snooping and reading her private messages?
You need to focus on Sandi's rules and DBing techniques. You change up so many methods in the course of a day, how do you know what works? You need to commit to something for more than an hour or two.
You need to show your W changes through actions, not words. You have received the same advice from multiple posters and all you are giving us is lip service. If we can see you haven't changed, so can your wife.
Its the actions not the words that will make the difference.
I am not entirely up to date on your sitch, but just from reading a few pages, I can see you are stuck in that place where you are trying to find the magic bullet.
We have all been there. We all think, in the beginning, that our sitch is different. That all these people giving us advice don't know what they are talking about. We think there must be some way that WE can make our WASs come back. There isn't.
That's why people will tell you over and over - you need to focus on YOU. You cannot control what your W does or what the OM does. (And I agree with gogofo, why are you looking at your W's texts? That is not helping anything.)
Your need to give your W her space. Stop talking about the R. Stop talking about the OM. Stop trying to show her this or that, or make her want to be with you.
Think about her complaints. And then think about if there is anything else about yourself, that you might want/need to change. Are you happy with who you are? Work on being the person you want to be, NOT the person your W wants you to be.
Don't read into every little thing your W does and says to you or the OM. That's just stepping right onto the roller coaster and asking to have a volatile ride. Stop strategizing, and start living.
You have to believe everyone here who tells you this is a LONG ride. If you keep going the way you are, you are going to go insane.
Have you finished reading DB? Do you see what you need to do and why?
I am reading DR
I think imam in a bad place because I have also been on Tam And MA and they are making me feel like an idiot becuase I want to be with my wife
And because I enjoy her company
I am not going to read her tests anymore because it hurts
I also will not talk about OM R or us
I am working in changing myself
And I did finish DR
let me try that again. You mean she is coming back to the house, and not you. Why would you let her back in without reconciling the M?
A lot of this decision was financial. Also,I in the back of my mind thought it would give me a chance to restart DB.
To be that man she would not want to leave, to hope her relationship fizzles or ends...
If you read my original thread ( sorry the story is long) you will see what happened.
My wife left me for,her tour guide
Hi Oxford,
My wife wanted to do the same thing as yours and return home for financial reasons. I thought long and hard about it and decided that she would not get to understand the real financial issues that are part of her choice if I allowed it. So I said no and she said I was being selfish and not thinking about the kids. I have actually begun pulling back more and not picking up expenses totally, but instead demanding that she pay 50% where the kids are involved. Right now she is getting angry and such because she is not getting her way. Either she will wake up or not, but at least I am setting boundaries.
You need to consider whether you can set financial boundaries if she return or don't allow it.
Hi Oxford,
My wife wanted to do the same thing as yours and return home for financial reasons. I thought long and hard about it and decided that she would not get to understand the real financial issues that are part of her choice if I allowed it. So I said no and she said I was being selfish and not thinking about the kids. I have actually begun pulling back more and not picking up expenses totally, but instead demanding that she pay 50% where the kids are involved. Right now she is getting angry and such because she is not getting her way. Either she will wake up or not, but at least I am setting boundaries.
You need to consider whether you can set financial boundaries if she return or don't allow it.
Our situation is different she makes a good living. It's debt, college costs, another about to go to college. It's having to pay down debt.
The hard part is we planned on living as friendly neighbors, but she's not letting me do that. I think she's still unsure about OM.
I have resolved myself that her plan is to eventually get divorced. Marry this guy, live in the USA and Israel, kind of back and fourth. It's a ll a little girl fantasy.
Her OM is a needy guy who I know is going nuts she's home. He made her promise to not have sex with me.
This is hard. I should not have allowed this weekend to violate all the boundaries we both set.
I am afraid I am Entering " The Friend Zone"
I think I will set up another session with my DB coach. I was waiting to see what happened once she came back.
I am so lost right now...
It's like I am living with my sister not my wife..
Hi Oxford,
More alike than you think. My wife makes a good living. We have one child finishing freshman year in college and another about to start.It is always about debt.What I am having to learn is my wife has to make her own mistakes and get herself out of them. I am learning how to handle my own debt and keep my head above water. I am also having to figure out how to get the kids through college and hopefully be able to help them pay the debt down after. My wife is still running away from it and hoping I will bail her out. If I do she won't learn and maybe appreciate what she had.
Oxford
Sorry you are part of the club no one wants to join, and everyone wants to leave. My h has not left, but is threatening divorce. We are basically roommates. He is in spare room. There are no displays of affection. I am trying to be his friend BC eventually ow will start to nag ( he does not admit to ow they are just friends..ugh). So being your w friend is good. In the meantime detach from her r with on. Work in gal without her. Set some nee boundaries. Boundaries is where I am lacking. I am such a wimp, and he does what he wants. Ugh!! Be strong like you were when she lived elsewhere. You can do it.
Oxford
Sorry you are part of the club no one wants to join, and everyone wants to leave. My h has not left, but is threatening divorce. We are basically roommates. He is in spare room. There are no displays of affection. I am trying to be his friend BC eventually ow will start to nag ( he does not admit to ow they are just friends..ugh). So being your w friend is good. In the meantime detach from her r with on. Work in gal without her. Set some nee boundaries. Boundaries is where I am lacking. I am such a wimp, and he does what he wants. Ugh!! Be strong like you were when she lived elsewhere. You can do it.
Thanks I have to leave some of the other boards they are attacking my wife as a slut and calling me all sorts of terrible names because of the way I with her. Even the mcounslers say to stay in touch love her but be a little distant.
Why do those other boards tell me to throw her out tear her with no respect
I did awful things from what I see now. I did not see it as abuse but I made her not want to now that I fear I loosing her now that we are like friends I see how wrong I was how absolutely sweet and wonderful she is . I such am a$$hole
Sorry for all the spelling errors
I was at the gym and writing on my iPhone
"SPELL CHECK IS MY WORST ENEMA"
While I don't think the calling your wife a slut is appropriate on the other boards, doing what you are doing is not painting you in the best light either . You are not a girlfriend. You are her husband nd she is cheating on you . She is open about it and shoving it in your face and expecting you to fill the void her OM left. That is not a way to maintains self respect and boundairies.
Being her best girlfriend and letting her cake eat is not going to get you closer to your goal
What do you suggest I try?
I a, trying to stick to one plan if that fails try another...I know I have time...
Ok, so since the status of my situation has changed and I am over 100 replies on my thread I started this one:
She's back home but still in love with OM