I have been coming here to the forums for several weeks. There is a lot of suffering out there, but a lot of support from a lot of good people. I'm hoping that by starting this for me, it will help calm me for the marathon, and perhaps some of the sages on here will also provide insight. I also picked up DR yesterday and am working through it.
W and I have had issues in the marriage for some time. I think things came to a head during an argument on 2/11 that I either accept things or W was going to divorce me. I, of course, couldn't stop.
The next day, W came to me and read a written letter saying W loved me and the kids, wanted to work on things and make various changes. In hindsight, I think this was the start of W doing things to protect W interests if D was litigated.
2/28 started like any other day. W took the kids to school and ran various errands. But W never came home with the kids after school. I received a call from W's friend telling me that W and kids were in town and were safe. I was supposed to have receive a 'package' that day, but it was delayed. I think the friend told me it was D papers, but don't remember. I was in shock.
The weekend of 3/1, I had no contact and no idea of where W and the kids were. 3/3 was my daughter's birthday and I didn't know where she was. I contacted a lawyer and was advised to send an email to W and draw up a plan to have dinner with the kids, which I did. My W's L sent me an email with additional requirements: I couldn't leave the restaurant with the kids and I couldn't approach W. I signed the agreement.
Dinner that night was awkward. After dinner, I took the kids to the parking lot as agreed. W was parked close to the door and rolled down the window to talk to the kids. I didn't talk to her or approach her. After the kids got in the car, I went back in to the restaurant because I was so upset. Several minutes later, I went to my car.
As I pulled out of the parking lot and was driving down the street, I noticed a car pull out of the same lot and realized it was the W's car. W pulled up along side of me as if she was trying to get me to notice (follow?). I looked straight ahead and drove home.
The next day, I was still reeling. I didn't know when I would see the kids again. I knew they didn't go to school on 3/3 and they were not in school on 3/4. That night, at 7:00, I was served with a Protective Order for my W. The L included the signed judge order and the application. I saw something that read that I had to be out of the house within 4 hours after being served.
I'm not an L and was panicking. I got out of the house to a hotel as soon as possible.
My L advised me the next day that the PO didn't require me to move out of the house until 3/15. We had planned a trip IL's FL home over spring break. W and kids were going, so I could stay at the house during this time.
I still didn't know where they were, so I asked my L to tell W's L that I would leave the house and W and kids could stay there until they left, and I'd move back for the week.
And so it was. My L and I met with W's L while W was in FL. Our state does collaborative Ds, so we started the process. As part of it, W had to fire the other L that had done the PO, and W had to agree that she would not file any court actions while we were in collaborative process. My L found out that W's other L had 'torn down' the court date for the PO and it would just expire on 3/24.
Even before the PO, I had stopped texting and calling W after the first 24 hours. I knew she was gone and there was nothing I could do about it. The PO just reinforced this.
I started to think about where I'd live. I started organize all the financial data we'd need in the collaborative process. I got a budget from W's L and made suggestions and updates to it so W could have an accurate picture of what it would look like if she kept the house.
I got a personal cell phone because I only had a work cell. I knew I'd be texting a lot more with the kids, and I was hoping to in a polite manner with W and couldn't do all that on my work cell.
While they were in FL, I texted my two oldest to let them know I had a new cell because my work wouldn't want me texting too much. The next morning, 3/14 at 5:15 AM, I received a text from W. This was first communication with W since the morning of 2/28 when they left for school.
W told me that the next time I do something like get a cell, I should call to let her know. It upset the kids because they felt they had a secret.
Before I could reply, she texted that she appreciated my attitude toward the kids and school nights. One of our sons has ADD, and his doctor said he should stay in one house during the school week so that he can sleep better. While W was in FL and I met with both Ls, I said it was in his best interest. I also couldn't see the other kids coming over while he was at home, so they should all stay at the house. She then offered to have me stay with the kids at the house on my weekends.
Against my better judgement, I replied to her texts and wrote that I didn't call because of the order and the decision wasn't hard because I was going to do everything in the best interest of my kids.
I need to add that during this time, I hadn't found this site or DR, but I was all about working on me. To deal with the PO, I found quotes from the Buddha to be calming. We also had a book by the Dalai Lama that was extraordinary.
The simple idea that people seek happiness and try to avoid suffering was mind-bending to me. I got a library card and check several books by the Dalai Lama out. I thought it was great that in DR, MWD references Buddhist thoughts.
I also scheduled sessions with an IC. I knew I had problems beyond the M to work on. My issues.
She replied back that she understood why I did it and it was a nice message. She also sent a message about hoping that she didn't have to move the kids out of the house, but she was unsure about how much money she could make at the business she owns. She also wrote that I was a good dad and she wanted me to be there for the kids.
I replied back that I knew she would do great with her business and that we'd find a way.
Later in the day there were more texts from her. Take any furniture you want. Take our bed (I have a bad back). Take these dishes.
I asked if she would be taking care of the bills that were accumulating. I had stopped opening her mail and several of the bills were addressed to her. I took care of things financially and she asked me to take care of them.
It was all very cordial.
The next day, the day before they returned home and I moved out, I sent W a text asking about being on the same page and what the kids had been told about me not being in the house when they got home.
I still had no idea what the kids had been told about things. In over two weeks, I had seen them 2.5 hours, and for six of those days, I had no idea where they were.
There was no reply to the text.
On the day they got back, there were several texts from W. She thanked me for the work I had done on the house (it was therapeutic). She asked if I had found a place, where was it (I only said it was close to the house and a general reference, not an exact address), did I get enough things from the house, do I want to take kids to events during the week, why didn't I take a TV...
After two weeks plus of silence, it was a lot of exchange. I thought about the PO.
W also asked how my mother was. I wrote that she wasn't happy with me. W wrote that we'll all get through it. I wrote maybe, and that it was hard to learn a lesson too late, but that I was going to use it to be a better person and a better dad. I also wrote that I wished I had one more chance.
On Monday, 3/17, there were several texts about various things that need to be addressed. Bills to pay, deposits to make, meeting with members of the collaborative team to schedule. All cordial.
I later learned that W had gone to see a C we both had seen the previous summer, and he told W that I could still change.
On Tuesday, I received a text late in the afternoon asking if I could take two of the kids to their practice. I jumped at the chance as I hadn't seen them since 3/8.
While we were a practice, W texted to see if I could pick up dinner. W suffers migraine headaches and was having one. Again, any opportunity to be with the kids I was going to take.
I ended up having dinner with them, getting them bathed and off to bed. W was on the floor of the master bath dealing with the headache. I told her I could take her to the ER if necessary. She asked that I stay a while to make sure she was ok.
I sat in the living room in the dark while the kids went to sleep. It was the happiest I'd been since the BD.
The next morning I texted to see if she was okay. It started several messages back and forth about various things. W's L had mentioned the C we had seen the previous summer, so I asked W if she wanted me to see him.
There had been an agenda item on the schedule when I met with the Ls the previous week that we didn't know how to address: 'What safeguards will be put in to place to ensure everyone feels safe?' and W's L mentioned the C, so I asked if W wanted me to see C.
W wrote that C had moved far away, but that W had talked with C and C said I could change. I wrote back that I can and I have.
I wrote about reading the Dalai Lama's work and scheduling the meetings with the IC to work through my issues.
W replied back "You are making so many efforts. What do you think about staying separated for a period of time and then decide about negotiating divorce?"
I couldn't believe it.
Our Ls drew up a modification to the PO so that we could communicate with each other. We met separately with a C that was part of the collaborative team. She said we should stop the collaborative process and recommended an MC.
We had our first meeting with MC on 4/2 for an hour. After, we sat down outside the MC's office and talked for 45 minutes. It was the first time we had talked since 2/28, and probably the first real talk in a long time.
I did ask if we would only see each other at counseling. She said she was open to going out on dates. I knew she is concerned about confusing the kids, so I suggested that we start with lunch while they are in school. I also suggested that we watch a show we liked to watch together (yes, Game of Thrones).
She liked the idea, and I went to the house on 4/7 for lunch. It went very well. We had another MC session this week and afterwards, she texted me about what a good session it was.
Even with all the progress, I realize I need to be patient with this process. I know she needs her space.
It has been an interesting couple of days after our solid MC session.
W if having surgery next week and will be out of action for the week. ILs will be in town to help with things. I have told W that I would like to take and pick up from school every day. W told me to coordinate with MIL. MIL said she expected to get a schedule from W. W texted it would be nice if ILs could drive some during the week. I texted ILs can see them more next week than I can. She texted that there are reasons this situation is what it is.
I didn't respond to that. Shortly after that she texted that she hoped that wasn't too harsh, but that it felt like I was pressuring her. I replied that I wasn't trying to pressure her, only express what I wanted (which has been an issue in the past). I also texted that she should let me know if I'm putting any pressure on her about anything and that I've tried to give her space. She wrote that I had been great about that.
So today was my day with the kids over at the house. Previously, she has either left or stayed in her bedroom while I was there. Today, she came out and asked if I could talk with her. We started on a mundane topic, but eventually she told me that the past 3 days since our MC were really hard. She said that she didn't realize how much support I was giving her "even in the bad times". She also wondered if all of this, meaning serving the D papers and separating, was the right thing to do.
I told her that I knew it was tough on her, but ultimately, everyone will be happier regardless of the outcome. And then she hugged me.
I need some vets to provide input. How long do the trust nothing the WAS says and 50% of what they do rules apply? My WAS has gone from one extreme to another pretty quickly. I'm reading DR, but not sure which part I should be focused on.
W had surgery and spent a long time with MIL. I wasn't happy that it felt like MIL was kicking me out of house after I had done some things that needed to be done. But it wasn't a battle worth waging.
Anyway, I picked the kids up from school for the first time since BD. S9 said he couldn't wait for the 'divorcement' to end. When they were in hiding, the kids came up with a word for our situation called 'divorcement'. W said 'divorce' was too scary. He wants it to end so we can be together again.
I don't know exactly what W said to them, but they really are holding up well for what they've been through. W says it is basically "Mom and Dad have had problems and we need to be apart to work them out, and we'll find a solution where everyone is happiest".
IMO, W is one of the greatest mothers. It was still sad to hear that from him today. But it is also motivation to do my work I need to do.
I can feel you about the children. My D5 always calls each night I do not have her to say goodnight. Every time she calls, she end the goodnight by telling me “I am giving the phone to mommy now because she said she needs you” and I can hear in the background her tell mommy “daddy said he needs you so hear is the phone”. I fell for this for a few times in a row and then I realized it was just D5 wanting to get us back to gather. As bad as it felt I started hanging up the phone before it got to my wife so as to maintain her space and my minimal contact.
When the D5 was over at the house last she told me she was tired of Grandma’s house and wanted to come back home. She asked when she and mommy could come back and it broke my heart. I had to ask my sister to watch her for a few minutes because I couldn't keep from crying and I didn't want D5 to see that. This might seem small to some but prior to my wife leaving I had not cried about anything other than shear pain related accidents in the better part of 15 years. Many of the self-help books I have been reading talk about getting in touch with your emotions but it would be a lot easier if this deluge didn't have to hit me all at once. Sometimes I don’t know how to take these wonderful new found emotions so I go work out instead. Sometimes I let them in and see where they take me but it always seems to go down a dark road that I would rather not be on.
Stay strong Nettles and keep up the good work my friend.
soldier, I hear you on the emotions piece. The best advice I've seen somewhere on here is to let them flow over one like water over rocks. They are there, but they don't cause one to react.
The good news is that S9 has been his same happy self the last 2 days.
More good news is that I had another lunch with W today. It was a spur of the moment invite from W that I accepted. It went really well. W has also invited me to go to a movie with W and kids tomorrow. This will be the first activity we do as a whole family since BD. To me, this is a pretty good milestone.
What a positive development. Baby steps. Have a good time.
This is good news Nettles and I am happy to hear it. It really helps to encourage me in my own efforts. I also enjoy your passed on words of wisdom. I do not know if you are familiar with the now deceased television painter Bob Ross but I use to watch him with my father when I was very young and re-runs of his show still touch my heart. Anyways he was painting a landscape of a river running over rocks and said something very similar. He was referring to the painting as opposed to emotions but the message was the same in the end. I am glad to hear about the impromptu lunch with the wife and I hope you have a great event with you family!!
Thanks unbidden. Yes, baby steps.
Thanks soldier. And anyone my age should know Bob Ross. He was an icon.
Another thing that happened yesterday that I didn't write about is W talked about a trip this summer. My ILs decide some time ago that when each of our children turns 10, the ILs would take them on a trip. This is the year S9 will turn 10, so ILs planned a 2 week trip to France in late June. But because S9 has ADD, ILs decided to make it a trip hosted by S9 for everyone in the family.
Yesterday, W said that FIL told her that there will be a place on the trip for me. W said we will have to see how we are doing to determine what to do. Here is my philosophy on the trip:
1) I will hope to be able to go.
2) I have no expectation of being able to go.
3) I will not ask (ie pressure) W about what her thoughts are on my "status" for the trip.
4) I will let W bring up any conversations about the trip.
5) I will start tentatively planning alternative activities for the time period of the trip.
Thoughts on how to handle?
Honestly Nettles I think what you outlined is your safest course of action. Again I am not a senior person on these forums by any means but based of the DR book it sounds the best course for your situation. You have really impressed me as far as how well you are taking the material to heart. I need to try to follow you lead a bit more. I believe that if you keep doing what you are doing and not apply pressure to your W then it will raise your chances the greatest of achieving the outcome that you want to happen.
On a side note, some mental prep might be in order for if you do get to attend the trip so that you are prepared for such a long period of exposure with your W.
You are right about the mental prep. In fact, you remind me that I need to keep a journal today of the items I need to work on in interacting with W and make notes on how I'm doing. I have to practice observing and reflecting on these things now and making improvements.
Another note that I'm putting on the positive ledger, W started 2 Scrabble games on FB with me. We used to have 2 games going all the time. This stopped when we had problems. I accused her of being addicted to it and wasting a lot of time. I now know it is something that makes her happy. And it makes me happy that'd she'd be willing to play me again.
Nettles, I was thinking about your most current revelations and as I started thinking about it deeply I had the thought that might be hard to swallow but my thought is that a two week vacation with your W is much more intense than a few lunches and what not. My thought is this, are you sure that even if she is OK with you going on the trip that it is the wisest move in the long run. You are both moving slowly into something that would seem to be positive and a long period of exposure could accidentally cause a relapse. I know you obviously would want to go for more reasons than just your wife as your children are also involved but on the other hand sometimes you have to loss the battle to win the war.
So you are knee deep into your travel of the three C’s of change which “good husband great marriage” labels as consciousness, conduct and character. First you realize the behavior you want to adopt then you start to catch yourself as you get use to this behavioral change and lastly you make it a permanently new behavior where you no longer need to catch yourself due to it being a part of you. From your posts I get the impression that you are somewhere within that second C and thus you still have some small relapses as you work to making your changes a way of life. One of these relapses, even small as it might be, could do major damage to the foundation you have worked so hard to rebuild.
In the end the choice is yours assuming she does say you could come along but I just wanted to offer some additional food for thought as I started to ponder your potential situation. I thought about me and if my wife called and said she would like to come back home. I want this more than anything in the world right now but I know I am still catching my self-drifting in and out of my changes and I would hate for her to see a small relapse from me that reminded her of what she despised about me and then leave again after a few short weeks or months. Two weeks is a lot of exposure for your wife to see something such as what I described and it could be a set up for failure as we use to say in the military.
I think you raise some great points. The discussion actually helped in that it removed any anxiety about the 'elephant of the future' for us. It is still an option, no more and no less. And we agreed that we will see where we are and make sure it is the right decision. It is still 9 weeks away. To some degree that sounds like a long way off and in other ways it sounds very close. So knowing we can wait and see where we are reduces the pressure for both of us.
This was a very good weekend. Although it wasn't "my" weekend, W invited me to go to see 'Muppets Most Wanted'. This was the first activity we have done all together since BD. We all had a great time. (As an aside, there was a guy sitting behind us, no kids, laughing very loudly many times during the movie. Old N would have been very annoyed by him. New N liked the joy the movie was bringing to this guy.)
When we got back to the house, W invited me to have a pizza dinner with the family and ILs, and to just hang out at the house until dinner time. It was a pleasant dinner with no awkwardness.
Before I left, W asked if I'd like to take S12 and S9 to their sport Saturday morning. When I picked them up, D8 wanted to go as we 'urban explore' during this time. It was awesome. I had lunch with the crew when we got back and hung out for a few hours.
Easter morning, I set up the egg hunt and then we went to the park. I was invited to have lunch and stayed for a few hours. W and I had a conversation after lunch about R. It was a great conversation. I told her about some things I'm starting to understand (my feelings about me and owning my own happiness) and she said it helped a lot to hear that for her understanding of what happened. She said she wasn't sure how I felt about her and how she felt unloved for a long time. I told her I understood why she would feel that way, that I did love her and understood that she needed to see it through actions.
We talked about a lot, hugged several times and ended it with both of us feeling really good about the future. One clear takeaway was that she wants the new R to work and I do too.
It's hard to believe 5 weeks ago today I spent my first night in my apartment thinking the M had no chance.
Nettles, I read your post and almost got misty eyed. I am so happy for the success you had over this past weekend. You just keep doing the right things for you and it sounds that your W is really enjoying the changes that she is seeing. I hope that I also will have such good fortune in my situation. Stay strong and allow the movement to happen at her pace. That sounded like a great weekend and it really encourages me to keep up the fight. My weekend had some ups and downs but I will post about it on my thread soon. Awesome job controlling yourself. I know it isn't always easy but you are really getting it to be a way of life.
Thanks soldier. You are right, this needs to move at her pace.
An interesting thing that came out during our discussion was the D. She felt she had to do it, but she wasn't "done". I see that a lot in other threads about one S being "done". W wasn't, but needed changes to M. W saw filing D as the last chance to get these changes.
I told her I admired her strength in doing it. W said it wasn't easy to plan and execute filing for D. She felt like she was going to have a heart attack daily because she didn't know how I'd react. She might actually end the M with this action. I could have been "done" in response.
I feel extremely fortunate that she wasn't "done". She easily could have been. She was looking for signs of change and responded quickly to them. It is going to take time, but it is nice to have the same objectives. I read other threads and feel for the suffering of others who have Ss that don't have the same objectives yet.
Today, S9 becomes S10. W invited me over early this morning to watch S10 open presents. We usually put the presents at the table and open during breakfast. I then got to take everyone to school. Really awesome.
After dropping them off, I went and got signed up for a violence intervention program. This is typically court ordered, but I'm signing up as a "volunteer" as they called me.
At first I wanted to leave when I saw some of the other participants. But I decided that from the discussions with W that this is something I needed to do for me. It will provide more tools in the toolbelt.
It should be an interesting experience. 24 weeks with 1 2-hour class.
Hey Nettles, this last post is another really positive post and I am glad that you decided to stick out the violence intervention program. I don’t know what will be talked about in there but it certainly can’t hurt and with the overall goal of having your family back well I would probably walk through fire for that. Today is my big lunch with the wife and I will post tonight on my thread as to how it went. You have really come along way for only two months. Great job man.
Hey Nettles,
I am just checking in and I hope your silence as of recent means that things are going better than ever for you. I wanted to share that I thought of you the other day because in my self evaluation that I might have borderline personality disorder I started looking up treatments and the main one is something called dialectical behavior therapy (DBT). The reason this made me think of you is that this type of therapy has its roots in the thoughts and principals of Buddhism which I found very interesting. It would seem that you where really on the right path with those way of living ideas. Again I hope all is well my friend.
Hey soldier,
Thanks for checking in. Yes, things are going very well. I realized today that I have seen W and kids every day for last 21 days. I feel very fortunate when I reaad others' sitches on the forum. But even with how well things are going, W and I did have an uncomfortable conversation on Sunday. The good news was that we were able to work through it and used it at MC as a learning opp.
W and I are going to go on an extended weekend getaway at the end of the month that should be a lot of fun. W wants to 'reconnect' and it is a good practice run for vacation in June. It should be a lot of fun.
The funny thing is that my birthday will occur on this getaway. It would have bothered me previously that W hasn't realized it yet. Now I know it is just the way W is wired. Before BD, W had to trick me into telling her our wedding date so she could tell her lawyer. W just isn't the stereotypical W!
The DBT sounds interesting. I'm reading another book by the Dalai Lama. It is all so simple but so powerful, to me at least.
Hang in there soldier and update your sitch. I'm pulling for you.
I'm thinking about starting a new thread in the "Piecing" section. Based on the info there I think I meet this: "Piecing is when both parties are (or say they are) committed to working on the relationship".
W is including me in something every day so that I see W and kids. For our 'reconnect' vacation later this month, W didn't want to go to a marriage retreat because "they were last chances for people to save the marriage." She talks about "when" I move back home. There is no talk of Ls or D. The MC sessions are about working on the relationship.
But the deciding factor is that I feel the need to do something more than DBing. I feel like I need to build an intimate connection with W. I know it was something missing for W previously, and is now something I want too. MWD rules in "Piecing" section seem to fit the bill.
After reading through your thread, you never did explain why your W left you in the first place. You never detailed what the problems were and why she had the PO against you.
Honestly, I don't think you are in Piecing yet. AND the fact that you said you said you needed to do "something more than DBing", shows you never understood what DB actually is.
It's to constantly learn and grow and understand how your spouse is and what her needs are. Intimacy is included in that. Right now she's being extremely cautious and doesn't trust your changes. When she feels comfortable enough to trust you again, the intimacy will happen.
Why did W leave? Because I was an angry, unhappy person who wasn't pleasant to be around. I was passive/aggressive and tried to intimidate her into doing thing my way.
Although you didn't ask, I'll tell you why I was angry and unhappy. I was unhappy because I didn't work on understanding what made me happy, and I stopped doing things that made me happy. I was angry because I didn't like myself, where my career was going and my perceived lack of success, and that W knew what made her happy. If I was miserable, I expected her to be miserable too, and I'll undermine her happiness if I have to.
I've read a lot of your post, MrBond, and respect your opinion. So what is your definition of "piecing"? As I wrote, if it is defined as that, I don't see how it hasn't started.
You question my understanding of DBing. Do you see piecing as a part of DBing? Is there no distinction? Does DBing have no end?
Regarding the PO, W states that she was scared by my actions the weekend she left. For me, I don't like the person she described in her deposition to get the PO, and this is why I'm taking the Batterer Intervention Program my state offers. The police were never called. I'm not there due to a court order. I am owning what I did and working to improve. If you'd like more detail, please ask. Upon filing the PO, she immediately had her L 'tear down' the court date. If you don't know what that means, I can explain.
I think the most beneficial thing you wrote was that W doesn't trust my changes. You are probably right about that. But she does trust them enough to not be proceeding with the D.
Hey Nettles,
I cannot add much input on whether or not you are ready for piecing as in truth I am not even sure what that is right now. I did read DR but having now read so many other books after it I think I need to go back and refresh my DR to make sure I don’t slip on my goals and tactics.
I did have one question for you as you said something about “Upon filing the PO, she immediately had her L 'tear down' the court date”. I am not familiar with the term “tear down” in regards to a court date. If it isn’t too much trouble, could you give me a quick definition as I am curious. I am obviously hoping for the best in my sitch but also want to stay prepared for the worst.
I agree with MrBond about how your wife sees you change but I also agree with you that you seem to have awareness of this fact and am indeed moving cautiously into these new areas. I have read on these forums however that WAS can be kind of flaky and change on a dime. I am not saying this will happen to you nor do I even want to hex you that way but just be careful to insure that your hard work continues going in the right direction.
As far as the concept of DBing and what it means to individuals. This one is interesting to me. I have read many books now and many of these books were recommended to me right here within posts on these forums. At first, I felt that reading additional material was doing more than just DBing but as I pondered it more and more I started thinking that the core purpose of DB is to Bust a Divorce before it happens which these other books are trying to do as well so now I look at everything I do as a form of DBing, from reading to GAL to being my best physically, mentally and spiritually to meditation and prayer to being a good father. Now I see everything as DBing. If you think of DB in this light then it becomes impossible to do more than DB. You simply do more for your DB efforts.
Hey soldier,
For the PO, W's L went in front of a judge with a sworn statement from W that read "I'm scared of Nettles because...". Judge granted a PO that would last for 20 days. At the time the PO was granted, the judge ordered that I appear in court on a specific date during the 20 day time frame to address the PO and determine if it should be extended etc. Basically, this would be my opportunity to defend myself.
Immediately after the judge granted the PO, W's L ask that they forego the court date, what my L called 'tearing it down'. This meant that I didn't have to appear in court and that the PO would expire after 20 days. From what I understand, judge warned that it would be higher bar to get a new PO.
Why did W 'tear it down'? Pessimist says PO was a legal tactic to get me out of the house and set some other temporary orders and she didn't want to go back to court. Optimist says that she had to 'tear it down' and fire L that filed it to proceed with collaborative D process. This process in Texas doesn't allow participants to retain any other outside counsel or have any outstanding court actions against the other person. W says it was a sign of good faith.
I really don't care why it was torn down. The PO has become a central component in my 'book of inspiration' that I use for my meditation on establishing a nonviolent, nonabusive outlook for the day. It is the most powerful item I have, even more than the D lawsuit.
With respect to DBing, I think it comes down to semantics. I think of DBing in the context of the Divorce Remedy book. That is a 7 step process to get to a specific point. I think there are a lot of concepts that will always apply to having a healthy R, but doesn't include everything for a healthy R.
Like you soldier, I too have read a lot. Maybe I need to revisit the DR book.
Interesting MC work this week and it related to my "more than DBing" comment. W said she'd like to know how I feel about her and that I like to spend quality time with her. (Yes soldier, we did LL talk). This is very much in line with my comment.
So I've been telling her I love her and have set up our first date night tomorrow for a movie. I made the plan and bought the tickets, so this is pretty much a 180 on date nights. I've even parlayed this effort in to another date night Saturday night where I suggested the movie and coordinated details.
I've got the flowers ordered for Mother's day, and ILs took care of brunch plans. Youngest 2 have presents. I just have to coordinate with oldest 2 on what they are doing. They're old enough to come up with ideas, so I've challenged them to come up with something, but I'll have a back up plan when they don't.
I'm also working on flowers, cake and a gift for our time in Colorado. W's birthday was during the time of PO and when they were on vacation. This is another 180.
W may not trust Nettles' changes but she will because they are for real.
Hey Nettles,
Well it sounds like progress is moving so fast and I am happy for you. I enjoy your last line and hope to find myself in the same boat someday. I will post an update on my thread to explain more.
Thanks soldier. It has been a wild trip so far. And we did have a great weekend. W and I had a lot of quality time together. We did end up doing all the things I wrote about previously and ended yesterday by watching a movie at the house together.
The time together did lead to a few situations that in the past would have been contentious. But we worked through them. Not perfectly, but we did resolve them and learn about each other while getting them resolved. In the past, they would have festered without resolution or lead to drawn out arguments. I'm learning what she needs and how to give it to her. She also commented that she feels like I'm listening to her as part of the process. They were a little scary to go through, but it is building a better, stronger R.
And after 23 years, I'm now officially a Texan. We went cowboy-gear shopping on Saturday and I bought my first pair of cowboy boots for our trip at the end of the month. I'm very excited.
HA, that is awesome Nettles. I never did the boots but me and my W in our younger days did get into line dancing for a few years. I have driven and flew through Texas several times but never really got to stay and visit. Maybe someday if everything settles out I will attempt a more pleasant trip out that way. It seemed a very beautiful state.
As far as the scary stuff that you faced over the weekend, I would imagine that that stuff will continue to pop up for quite some time but you just take it one incident at a time and I am sure like everything else they will become easier and easier to deal with. Building the better R is kind of what this is all about so it always makes me happy to hear your improvements as it gives me greater hope for my own sitch some day.
Thanks soldier. I'm surprised you line danced without getting boots! I did like 3 classes here before I met W, but never went out and actually did it.
We talked in MC today about how we handled the weekend and C had great suggestions on tools. I feel very fortunate to have W that is willing to work with me. I read other sitches and see what a different mindset W is than others.
Hey this was a plan I had for making sure not to backslide through my life as well as if my W ever came back and it might help you as you are much farther down the road in your sitch. When I was in the military we had these binders we would make called our “I love me” binders and in them we would put things that reminded us of what we had achieved in our respective careers. Things like awards and letters from family members and all sorts of stuff. I have started a new type of this binder which is more like an “I never want to be that me again” binder. I have placed things that I have typed up on the things I did wrong the last time around and stuff that will help me remember what not to do in one section and in another section I have things that are inspirational to my journey of self-recovery. Buddhism quotes find their way in this section and things that I read in forums and whatnot. Lastly I have a section dedicated to reminding me what makes my wife so important to me. This has love letters and poems and what not that helps me to remember what my W really means to me.
As of now I skip reading the last section of this binder as I think it would make me too emotional but the first two sections I have been reading religiously to make sure I stay focused on my change. Anyways it might help and it is another form of GAL as I find myself seeking out both knowledge and inspiration to add to the binder.
I actually got a really nice leather binder and some plastic sleeves for this thing and now just holding it has some level of reverence to me. It calms me down when my emotions attempt to flare back up.
We are on the same wavelength soldier. The Dalai Lama writes about finding motivation for practice. I've had a "Book of Inspiration" since a few days after BD. It contains the D lawsuit, the PO, and other communication during this time. It is my reminder of the dark place I was and how important focusing on compassion and patience is for me.
Hey Nettles, I don’t have long this morning but I wanted to let you know that I finally ordered a copy of your recommended book “How to Practice: The Way to a Meaningful Life”. It is two books away on my reading list and I am looking forward to it deeply. I am especially looking forward to chapter 2 which I remember you saying was very powerful for you in your own life and sitch. I hope all is well and look forward to an update from you soon.
Hey soldier, I hope you enjoy the book. I'm reading the first 2 chapters again for the 4th time. It might just be me, but they really speak to me about myself. I'll be interested in what you think.
I was thinking about you last Friday. W, who was taking S12 and S10 to JJ, said she was going to 'roll' with someone after the boys class. It is an open mat session. I was surprised. Unfortunately, S10 vomited that night (guess who cleaned it up even though he isn't living there!), so they couldn't go. I was just imagining soldier teaching W a lesson on the mat! Ha.
In other news, W told me today that I should move back to the house after our trip to Colorado next week. I'm going to keep my apt thru July most likely, just in case. I think knowing it is there will reduce the pressures.
But it is going to work. She believes in my changes and W has changed too. She knows how important contact is to me, and we hug every time we meet or part. She says she feels like a giddy teenager. I'm happier than I've been in a long, long time.
Well the section with mistakes should not exist. You don't want to focus on it, as we get what we focus on. Best it disapear and you don't contribute to it.
Nettles - sounds like things are going well for you in many areas.
That's good to hear. Congratuations!
Stay strong!
Hey Nettles I am so happy to hear about you amazing fortune with your current sitch. It really sounds as if things are moving along for you nicely. I hope someday to find myself in as nice a position but obviously my sitch is going to take much more time to achieve. As far as rolling right now, I don’t know that I would teach anyone a lesson
right now I am the one being schooled. I have now attended three classes and my body feels as if it has been hit by a Mack truck. I have really enjoyed your posts as they have always given me hope for my own future but I fear my W is in a different place than your was. Your W seemed to still care about the M and wanted to make it work but needed to slap you across the face to wake you up. My W by comparison does not seem to want to waste any more time working on us at this point. I believe I was very emotionally and verbally abusive to her and have now started posting on the MEVAC forums for this issue. Anyways I don’t want to hijack your thread but regardless of my own sitch congratulations on the success you have had and keep it up. Never backslide and always remember the way it felt to come home to an empty house.
You are right soldier. I needed a 2x4 to the head at extreme velocity to get me back to reality. I felt and heard it loud and clear.
But where you are wrong soldier is what I read as giving up hope for your sitch. It is a delicate balance; have no expectations but don't give up hope. I've never met you soldier, but there is no way I can be convinced that the soldier reading this right now isn't better than the soldier who put his first post here or the soldier W fell in love with. It'll take time, and maybe it'll be someone else, but someone, and I hope it is soldier's W, will get a pretty damn good package of a man.
I'm not done yet with what I need to do, and neither are you soldier. I really admire your ability to identify areas of improvement and take it on. If I could have done that at 32, I wouldn't be here on this forum today. Things are going to work out for both of us. And I'll be here for my resolution and yours.
Well the section with mistakes should not exist. You don't want to focus on it, as we get what we focus on. Best it disapear and you don't contribute to it.
Thanks Ggrass. I'm not sure what you mean, but thanks. I know I've had 'toxic thoughts', that I'me working on reducing, but not sure how that played into a post.
Nettles - sounds like things are going well for you in many areas.
That's good to hear. Congratuations!
Stay strong!
Thanks for the support SemperFi00. When I was growing up, one of the kids I played baseball with had a father who was a Marine. I loved that guy. With your name, I can't help but visualize him writing these posts. It brings a smile to my face. I pray for the best outcome for you too.
Thanks for the thoughts and prayers Nettles.
Glad to know that Marines bring positives memories for so many.
Not all blood, guts and gore - just when it has to be.
Stay strong!
Updating after soon time away. W and I took a 5 day vacation at a guest ranch in Colorado and it was awesome. It was our first trip alone since we've had children. It was fantastic. I've also moved back in to the house now that we've come back.
Things are going very well. They haven't been perfect, but we are able to talk and work through issues as they come up. This makes us feel better about new R and what we are doing. MC and IC continues. My positive feelings and thoughts continue.
Thanks labug.
I really admire W for what she did. Even though it was hard, I'm a much happier, healthier person than I was on 2/27.
Hey Nettles. I remember you from when I first started posting here. I see you just posted on some other people's thread. Been a while since you posted about your sitch. How are things going for you these days?
Hey ganb8te. Things are much better. I'm happier, W is happier, kids are happier. W and I continue MC and the work continues. We are forging a new R. We do have bumps in the road, but we have tools now so that the bumps don't put us in the ditch.
Thanks for checking in. I'll check out your sitch and I'm praying for you.
That's great news, Nettles! So happy for you and your family.