Time for a new thread:
Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 So, I've got a couple of things coming up that I could use some opinions on.
The first is this coming weekend. My kids will be with me and as usual my W has mandated that the time with them is to be spent in her home town where they're living. The time is to be from Friday afternoon to Sunday afternoon. I am thinking I need much more time with them than that and that I can't just go along with whatever my W is telling me. I am planning to bring my kids back to my province Friday afternoon and keep them here until Monday afternoon. My oldest D would miss a day of school.
Besides that, my W's bday is coming up in just over a week. I think I should at least wish her a happy bday and help our kids get their Mom a bday present and card. Besides that, I had thought a considerate gift would be to give my W an external hard drive with all of our pictures and videos on it from the entire time we were together. She has none of them and I would think she would like to have them, even if only so she has pics and vids of our kids.
Thoughts?
Your W does not get to tell you where or how to parent your kids. If you want to take them back to your province, that's your call.
As far as missing school - are you supposed to have them on Monday or are you wanting to add on another day? If you are supposed to have them on Monday anyway, then I think it's your call whether your oldest D misses school. Would your W care if she missed school?
I think that would be nice of you to help your kids pick out a bday gift for Mom, and for you to wish her a happy birthday. I think the photos and videos of your time together is a bad idea - not only because it will seem to her like pursuing, but because I think you are attaching some expectations to that and you will be disappointed.
Going by my W's schedule I would not have the kids with me on Monday. That is her schedule though and not something I've agreed to. My W would likely get quite upset about my D missing the day of school mainly because it is something I am doing. I don't want my D to miss school either but since it is 8 hours of driving to come back home adding a day to the weekend makes sense.
The videos and pics would be seen as pursuing I agree. I don't know that I'd have any real expectations of anything positive from my W though, I know right now that pretty much anything I do won't be taken in a good way by her but I had thought giving her something like that is the right thing to do. I also want to show my kids that despite anything my W has done or said that I still will do the right thing when it comes to her.
I see you are trying to be the bigger person here and do something nice for your W, even though she is being a PIA, but I would still say no way on the videos/pics. Why is it the "right thing to do" to give her pics and videos? If she wants them, she can ask for them, and if she does, THEN giving them to her is the right thing to do.
I will let the vets with kids chime in on the Monday issue. On one hand, I don't think that your W gets to make decisions about the kids based on her preference. On the other hand, I think that it may not be worth it to start WWIII over the missed day of school.
Sorry if I missed something - what is the status of the parenting time discussions, and what is your L saying now?
Not to confuse you Scorp but I feel that you should see the kids in your wife's town as per the current schedule. I agree with melissag that your wife doesn't have a right to tell you how you can parent the kids and there will be a time for this. I feel that now is not that time. You are trying to come to an agreement with your wife about 50/50 time, she's asked you some questions, you've responded and she's considering her answers. Don't rock the boat now. Keep to the schedule, earn her trust, get the parenting plan in place and then start making your own plans. As I mentioned in your last thread, you've got your lawyer in your back pocket if your wife doesn't play ball but for now, keep your wife happy and get that parenting plan in place!
The hard drive is a terrible idea and thankfully you see it now. If your wife wants those pictures, she'll ask for them. She no doubt has a camera on her phone so she'll be taking her own pictures anyway. By all means, help the kids celebrate your wife's birthday but make sure it is from them and not from you via them. As for how you reccognise her birthday, a simple "happy birthday. I hope you enjoy your day" by text will suffice.
I didn't see you here over the weekend so I hope you had a great one.
I will not text her for her bthday, in my opinion.
Scorp,
^^ Good stuff from the other posters. I wouldn't text or even email W to wish her a HBD. She's demanding and dictating you how to parent the kids when she just upped them and moved 4 hours away. Perhaps have the kiddos cut out a homemade HBD card for W from them....just throwing out an idea here. Make it about the kids and their Mom.
One question...do the kids have Spring break vacation up in Canada? Or some scheduled holidays/days off from school that is happening in the next few days/weeks?
I'm skimming this, but from what I see, I wouldn't take your kids back a day late. Get them there in time for school. If you don't, it show lack of responsibility, which doesn't help you.
As far as your W's b-day, I'd do nothing.
Mel, the pics were just an idea on something that would be a thoughtful way to acknowledge my W on her bday without being too personal or gushy. A way of saying I'm thinking of you, I care but not thinking of her in a romantic way. It still would be seen by her as pursuing (safe to say I think) so I likely won't do that right now.
Sorry if I missed something - what is the status of the parenting time discussions, and what is your L saying now?
My W said she needed time to consider my responses to her questions. In the mean time she wants me to go along with her schedule. My L is preparing the D papers as well as the custody documents. They will be ready to go to be served to my W if she doesn't agree to 50/50 in the next week or so.
Not to confuse you Scorp but I feel that you should see the kids in your wife's town as per the current schedule. I agree with melissag that your wife doesn't have a right to tell you how you can parent the kids and there will be a time for this. I feel that now is not that time. You are trying to come to an agreement with your wife about 50/50 time, she's asked you some questions, you've responded and she's considering her answers. Don't rock the boat now. Keep to the schedule, earn her trust, get the parenting plan in place and then start making your own plans. As I mentioned in your last thread, you've got your lawyer in your back pocket if your wife doesn't play ball but for now, keep your wife happy and get that parenting plan in place!
The hard drive is a terrible idea and thankfully you see it now. If your wife wants those pictures, she'll ask for them. She no doubt has a camera on her phone so she'll be taking her own pictures anyway. By all means, help the kids celebrate your wife's birthday but make sure it is from them and not from you via them. As for how you reccognise her birthday, a simple "happy birthday. I hope you enjoy your day" by text will suffice.
I didn't see you here over the weekend so I hope you had a great one.
I'd been concerned about the timing of potentially rocking the boat. I also was thinking that if I don't stand up for myself and what I think our kids need then I'll still be viewed as a door mat. My kids love being home so it's hard to not bring them home. Besides that, it costs much more to stay in a hotel, eat out etc than it does to bring them home. It's also not a great way for my kids to spend their time being in a hotel rather than at home with somewhat of a regular family life.
My weekend was ok. I went out with a few buds and went to check out my old bass players new band. My friends are all encouraging to get out and start dating again but I'm not there at all.
One question...do the kids have Spring break vacation up in Canada? Or some scheduled holidays/days off from school that is happening in the next few days/weeks?
There is a break coming up fairly soon so I would plan to bring them home then for sure so I may back off on the weekend thing for now.
As an alternative for the weekend I'd considered staying in the hotel for an extra night which would allow me to drive my D6 to school Monday morning and then take my D4 to her playschool in the afternoon. It would still keep the kids on their usual schedules but give me more time with them. Not sure if that would be wise right now either since it would still rock the boat a bit.
The cost thing is a valid point, Scorp. It's certainly a reason to change things up a bit. Keep in mind though that the kids would be spending eight hours in the car each time they see you. What would your kids rather? Staying in a hotel or eight hours of driving? Are there holiday homes you can rent out for a weekend in your wife's area?
When you have your kids for a few days then your kids being at your home should be a non-negotiable but if it's only a couple of days, go with what works best for your kids followed by what will keep your wife happy while she's considering your proposal. The timing and location will fall into place. You have stood up for your kids by saying you want 50/50. Let your wife respond in her own time and you'll be able to make your next move when she does.
As for the extra night, that shouldn't be an issue with your wife. Just make sure the kids get to school on time or you'll never hear the end of it :p
Also, you may not be ready for dating but why not go out with one of these women and practice your listening skills without the pressure of dating. There's nothing wrong with making new friends.
The time in the vehicle isn't great for sure but compared to them spending all their time in a hotel and eating in restaurants to being in their home having home cooked meals the travel time is well worth it. Once it warms up a bit more, provided I keep our RV, I was thinking of pulling it over there and staying in that over the hotel. It's plenty big enough and the kids would likely have fun doing that until I move there.
Not sure I'm up for even hanging out with other women. Even chatting with women this past weekend just served as a painful reminder that none of them are my W.
Another thing that has been happening off and on is when I call my kids at night my wife or MIL will cut the call off saying it's time for bed, to get ready for bed etc. My W has instituted a very strict schedule for our kids which was a fairly big change from how we raised them before. We had always kept a schedule but it varied a bit from day to day depending on circumstances. Now all of our kids are in bed by 8pm each night whether they are tired or not.
Anyway, it really isn't very cool that my W will cut the call off when I am in the middle of talking to my kids. Often I am lucky if I talk to them for more than 10 minutes. My D4 doesn't like to talk on the phone that much and my S2 is obviously too young to talk that much although he does sometimes. Basically though I often only get to speak to my kids for no more than 10-20 minutes a day and then, whether I am done talking to them or not, my W or MIL will say it's time for the call to stop.
My W had setup a few Skype video chats earlier this year but that has since stopped now as well.
Is it just me or is she going out of her way to be as nasty as she can? Our kids need both of us equally and since I am reduced to only speaking with them on the phone for most of the time right now I think I should be able to speak to them for as long as they want to talk, provided they still get to bed at a good time.
Call earlier in the evening.
I do call earlier but they just cut the call off earlier or don't answer the call at all. My MIL imposed a time for me to call around 7:30 each night. If I called say at 7 they won't answer. I have called at 7:15 to 7:20 most nights and they will answer (my D6 or D4 answer 99% of the time, my W or MIL will never answer the phone) but then the call gets cut off early most of the time.
It seems when my MIL is not around my W will let our kids talk to me for as long as they want, sometimes for 45 minutes or more. She will even encourage the kids to talk to me. If my MIL is around though it's a totally different story.
Make sure that you document the times that you talk with them, AND the times when you attempt to contact them and cannot get through ( they may be more important than the times that you actually do talk with them).....
Sigh ....
When are you going to start standing up for yourself, Scorp?
Drew, the L is pretty well ready to go to server her with papers. My W had said she is considering the 50/50 proposal so I'm giving her a bit of time to do that. If she will agree to 50/50 then I'll take that and go from there. If she stalls too much though then it will be in the hands of the Ls.
I wasn't talking about your lawyer.
I was talking about you.
That would mean rocking the boat which may or may not be a good idea right now given that she is considering the 50/50 proposal.
Not sure how much else I can do right now anyway. I'd mentioned earlier in this thread about keeping the kids for an extra day or so this coming weekend and possibly bringing them home as well.
With the phone issue I could say something to my W about it for sure, not sure what else I could do.
I'm planning on giving my D6 (she's going to be 7 right away) a cell phone to keep with her. She is very good on them so with some supervision it would make communicating with her and my other two kids much easier. Provided my W plays along.
Scorp,
How long do you plan to "give" W to respond to your suggestion of 50/50 custody? Does she know a hard deadline?
Sheeesh, MIL sounds like Nurse Ratched to me!
Controlling to the gills...oh my!
Go with Mach's idea for now and document everything. All of these things will form the parenting plan you are working on. Some key things to add to your parenting plan:
- Your MIL will not be involved in any way with your interaction with your kids. Scheduling visits, pick ups/drop offs, phone calls, etc. Everything goes through your wife and your wife only. And the kicker, she is to provide a way for you to be able to contact her directly. This is non-negotiable;
- Your wife tells you what the kids' routine is when she's at your place. I sympathise with your wife from the sense that I like a routine in my house and it upsets me when someone interferes with it. In saying that, if you know their routine you'll find several options throughout the day to contact your kids. If you call when you know it's dinner time or bath time without arranging it prior, and you know this is how your wife is going to work, then you're being inconsiderate;
- Discuss all contact options with your wife. If my wife tried to give my kids a phone, I'd take it off them not because I don't want my kids talking to certain people but because they're too young for a phone.
If you document everything, you'll get a picture of how things are working. Your wife and MIL do not get to dictate terms to you but they may have reasons for doing some of the things they're doing. You've chosen the non-lawyer route so if your wife plays your game, you'll be able to say "hey wife, I've noticed this going on, can you share with me why that is happening". If she does, great, you're working together. If not, it's just another thing to add to the list for the lawyer.
Scorp,
How long do you plan to "give" W to respond to your suggestion of 50/50 custody? Does she know a hard deadline?
Sheeesh, MIL sounds like Nurse Ratched to me!
Controlling to the gills...oh my!
I'm going to wait at least until the end of next week. I'm pretty sure she will come to me with a response of some sort sometime by then. She wants money and she knows I won't do anything with the financial matters until we agree on a parenting plan. Now, whether she will respond saying she agrees to 50/50 or not is another story.
Barry, good points, thanks. I agree that a schedule is a good idea but I've always felt that having a bit of flexibility is healthier for kids, especially mine. I do know their schedules but it seems my MIL and W want to be in the drivers seat and will only "allow" me to call when they decide it's ok. That is going to have to change and I think it will given time.
I agree with Barry about the phone. In the early days of our S, my H told my D he might give her a phone (we had previously agreed NO WAY until she is much older). I asked my DB coach whether I should let it go or bring it up and she said, nope, say nothing - if he gets her one, that's his deal. You don't have to let her use it when she is with you. So that is my plan, should that ever happen.
It sounds like, as part of your parenting time arrangement, you need to have a set time each night to speak with the kids when they are with W, and when your W can speak with them when they are with you. Since she isn't being very flexible at the moment, make it very specific - 7:20-7:45 or whatever it is that works.
I hope that your W responds in a reasonable time and agreeing to a reasonable arrangement.
Mel, the idea behind the cell phone is that it could be used by my kids so that I can communicate with them directly without having to phone my W's parent's home phone. It would also allow my W to call my kids on it when they are with me without having to call my cell phone or home phone.
My D6 has also been texting my W and my MIL when they are home with WhatsApp and she has fun with that. I have no doubt my messages with my D would be monitored by my W and my MIL but that's fine. I just want to have a way to communicate with my kids more often.
I certainly am praying my W will agree to 50/50. If she won't I can't believe she wouldn't understand that I will fight for them. If she will at least agree to 50/50 then we can sort everything else out and move on if that's what she wants to do.
I just want to have a way to communicate with my kids more often.
You DO have a way, you just don't want to use it....
And I don't care what country you are in, if your MIL is keeping YOUR kids from you, and preventing contact with them...
It is illegal....
Are you documenting every time you call and get cut off ???
And who does it ???
Mach, do you mean using my L? If my W agrees to 50/50 then the phone issue is much less of a problem. If she doesn't agree then my L is going to send her the court docs as soon as I give her the go ahead, everything is ready to go.
I have not documented things in that regard as well as I should but I plan to going forward.
Scorp,
I have not documented things in that regard as well as I should but I plan to going forward.
Why not start with the most recent incident now? Otherwise you'll forget the details if you try to recall the time, place, date, who, and what. Without those details, your dossier will be as much worth as yesterday's newspaper that someone's puppy is potty training on.
Wonka, I've got that done and have done a few entries for the past several days as well.
Mach, do you mean using my L?
NO!!!!!!!
How about you stand up to W & MIL and ask for what you want???
They are as much your kids as hers and certainly more than your MIL's.
Again I ask you: What are you so afraid of?
Drew, I think I did ask for what I want. I asked my W to move back to my province with the kids, she said no. I've been asking since last November that we share time with the kids 50/50, right now she says she needs time to think about it so I'm giving her some time. I've also asked that we work on our M to see if it can be salvaged to which she's said N O.
This coming weekend I'm going to keep the kids until Monday. I'm not asking my W if this is ok, I'm going to inform her that is what I'm doing. I have to do this in her home town to make sure my D6 gets to school that day. I'd like to stay for the whole week but I can't afford to stay in a hotel for that long right now.
Other than that, I could ask that the kids be allowed to talk with me longer each night if they want to. Is there something else you think I could be asking for?
If I'm afraid of anything it's that this situation will turn into WW3 and a full blown custody battle. Am I still tip toeing around my W? I am somewhat although I don't think I'm doing it as much as before. With my W saying she's thinking about agreeing to 50/50 I think it makes sense to not rock the boat too much right now. If she responds saying she won't agree to 50/50 I will be on the phone to my L that same day and my W will be served with papers the following day.
Refresh my memory here....
When was YOUR deadline for a decision ???
I'm sorry buddy....
But this ???
Other than that, I could ask that the kids be allowed to talk with me longer each night if they want to
Yea....
I know that I would be telling her instead of asking...
I WILL be calling the kids at 7 every night. And if there is any attempt to block this, then I will be taking them back to my province with me, and I will allow you to speak with them every night at 7.....
That's just me though....
Oh, and I wouldn't have allowed the house to be removed from my MIL either ( insert assorted
Wizard of Oz random thoughts here)
That's just me though....
No, it's not just you. It's pretty much any strong, sensible man.
Starsky
Scorp,
Mach & Starsky remind me about my own late, beloved father.
When I was a youngster (read 2 years old), my mother had already married her OM and somehow she started me in on calling him "Daddy." When my father learned of this, he FLIPPED out and went right up to my mother's front door. Then and right there, he told her in no uncertain terms that he's my ONE and ONLY father and he's the only person I am to call "Daddy." That put a stop to calling the OM "Daddy" pretty quickly. From there and on I called him by his name.
My Dad wasn't one for taking chit and stood up for himself (and for ME too). My hero despite his propensity for gazillions OWs. eye-rolling Dad may have had his own failings as a man, but was an A+ as a father in my mind & eyes.
Dad may have had his own failings as a man, but was an A+ as a father in my mind & eyes.
Are you saying, that being a Father has little to do with being a Husband ???
<gasp>
: )
******Disclaimer****
Sarcasm inserted for an over-dramatic effect, to emphasize a point that I have been making for the past few weeks
Yes, Yes, Yeppers, Yup....his track record as a husband has been in the crapper.
He'd much rather be the OM instead of honest, goodness to God husband.
(oh man, man...the stories...we have been estranged over periods when he was into his As. What can I say? He got a pretty headstrong person for a daughter)
LOL
That's why I suggested that Scorp finds out what the kids' routine is when they're with his wife. If Scorp knows the routine, he can find the holes and say "right, I'll call at X time". It's no use Scorp saying to his wife "I'm calling at X time" if his wife's schedule doesn't permit it (in my post, dinner or bath time). Get the info, make the decision, follow up.
I have to agree with Mach on this:
"I WILL be calling the kids at 7 every night. And if there is any attempt to block this, then I will be taking them back to my province with me, and I will allow you to speak with them every night at 7....."
Substituting the time you want for the time that works with you AND your wife. You have to be consistent with this. If you are and she blocks it, fire off the warning and act on it if it continues. If you call at random times, you won't have a leg to stand on; she's trying to organise the kids of a night time and you'll be interfering with that.
As for your MIL's involvement, when she takes the phone off the kids, that will be pretty obvious so document it, however I sense some mindreading when you suggest that your MIL is involved when the phone isn't answered at all. You're probably right but it's doing you NO good having these thoughts. You're holding yourself back by mindreading. Get the parenting plan in place and worry about your own life, not what your wife/MIL may/may not be doing.
I've thought of a lot of things I'd like to do (take my kids back to my province, take my car back from my W, tell my in-laws in no uncertain terms that they are not involved in our situation and do not have a say in how our children are raised etc etc). None of them have anything to do with being strong. They would make me feel better but wouldn't do anything to improve the situation with my family.
If I took my kids back home with me it would only serve to have them torn between my W and I as she would immediately get a court order and have them returned to her province. I should have done that when she took them, I didn't. I was doing what I thought I needed to save my M at the time. I was a big time controlling a** in our marriage so the last thing I wanted to do at the time was to come off as still being a controlling jerk. Gotta love hindsight.
It has taken all the strength I have to be patient, kind ,caring etc. I could give in to negative feelings and for a short time I might feel better, maybe, but it definitely would not improve the situation.
I'm giving my W the time she says she needs to share the kids. If she doesn't agree to 50/50 or if she takes too long to decide then my L will be the one being nasty, not me.
I gotta say though, do you guys really believe that if I just TELL my W to do what I want she will listen just because I'm being a "strong" man?
Hey, I've made plenty of mistakes in my time and I've made a few more since my whole situation started so I definitely could be wrong with my approach to things.
Scorp,
If she doesn't agree to 50/50 or if she takes too long to decide then my L will be the one being nasty..
I'm going to ask the same question in a different way. How long is "too long" for you? Have you communicated it to your W?
Barry, I call at the same time every night. The kids schedule seems to change and I do not get any notice of the change. Generally the kids are bathed and ready for bed by the time I call but there are times when that isn't the case. I don't mind that so much but IMO if my kids need to go to bed 10 minutes past their bedtime so they can talk to their Dad a bit longer then it's well worth it.
All of that can be sorted out soon enough. Once I have 50/50 with my kids the phone stuff isn't nearly as critical.
Wonka, I haven't given my W a deadline yet.
If I do not hear back from her after this weekend then I will send a message to her telling her I would like to hear back with her thoughts on 50/50 by the end of next week.
If she responds saying she won't agree I get the lawyer going.
If she says she needs more time then I will ask that it not be longer than the end of next week for her to give me an answer.
All of these points will go into your parenting plan, Scorp. As for telling your wife what is happening, as long as you are reasonable with your decisions and are consistent in your actions she will grow to respect you even if she doesn't like you.
I've thought of a lot of things I'd like to do (take my kids back to my province, take my car back from my W, tell my in-laws in no uncertain terms that they are not involved in our situation and do not have a say in how our children are raised etc etc). None of them have anything to do with being strong. They would make me feel better but wouldn't do anything to improve the situation with my family.
If I took my kids back home with me it would only serve to have them torn between my W and I as she would immediately get a court order and have them returned to her province. I should have done that when she took them, I didn't. I was doing what I thought I needed to save my M at the time. I was a big time controlling a** in our marriage so the last thing I wanted to do at the time was to come off as still being a controlling jerk. Gotta love hindsight.
Don't let your past, define your future...
I gotta say though, do you guys really believe that if I just TELL my W to do what I want she will listen just because I'm being a "strong" man?
Isn't this exactly what she did to you ???
Doesn't make it right or wrong, it just is, what it is...
However....
She is like a playground bully with you...
She doesn't "own" the kids, she is only 50% of the creation/equation with them....
You have to find YOUR balance with this, and I am not too sure that being passive is working....
Your words say that you want 50/50, your actions are saying that you want zero....because you are allowing your spouse to make 100% of the decisions regarding YOUR children....
Stand up and state what you want...
Cause just like the playground bully...
Once you stand up to them, they typically back off a bit...
How long ago did you send your last email?
I gotta say though, do you guys really believe that if I just TELL my W to do what I want she will listen just because I'm being a "strong" man?
Let me try one more time because you're missing a very subtle but extremely important point.
You're not telling HER what to do. That would be wrong. You should be communicating YOUR boundaries to her and what YOU will do if those boundaries aren't honored. You have rights as a father.
Yeah, you ask for things, she says no, you do nothing. Rinse, repeat.
She makes one comment that she's "thinking" about 50/50 and you back off. Meanwhile, nothing changes.
Sorry, that's just the way I see things.
How long ago did you send your last email?
I sent my response to her questions on the 19th, she responded on the 20th saying she needed time to think about 50/50. I thanked her for her reply on the 21st and told her I'd be picking the kids up this Friday.
If I have not heard back from her by the 31st she will have loads of time to think about 50/50. If I give her until the end of next week to respond she will have had more than two full weeks to make up her mind which should be more than enough.
Drew, I do get your point and you're right, sticking up for myself as well as setting my boundaries are for sure good things to do, telling her what to do is not cool.
I do think I've set a pretty big boundary in saying that I will not discuss any financial matters with her until we have a 50/50 parenting arrangement agreed to and in place.
She wants money asap and she knows she will not get any until she agrees on 50/50. I want to reach that agreement without lawyers so giving her time is ok with me, for now.
Scorp, 12 days sounds fair. At that time, make sure you politely give her a deadline. "W, it's been nearly two weeks, what conclusion have you come to?" If she responds, awesome, if not, "W, I'd like to know by Friday/Monday/whatever-day" giving her ample time to get her chit together if she hasn't already and removing any potential for "but I didn't know". You're continuing to give her time and space but your lawyer is ready to go Saturday/Tuesday/whatever-day-plus-1.
Scorp,
I sent my response to her questions on the 19th, she responded on the 20th saying she needed time to think about 50/50. I thanked her for her reply on the 21st and told her I'd be picking the kids up this Friday.
Be prepared for the possibility that W may corral you into 'discussing' the 50/50 this Friday when you pick up the kiddos. Whatcha gonna do then? You don't want to look silly and flub your lines in front of W.
Barry, agreed. It's a big decision for her and would be a major detour from what she's been saying previously about time with our kids. I understand she needs time.
Wonka, I would LOVE it if my W would try to coral me to talk about 50/50 this Friday. Unfortunately, she still won't see me or talk to me directly. My MIL brings the kids to a neutral location so I don't see my W at all.
Here's a new wrinkle, all of the hotels in my W's town are booked up already. The only rooms available have one bed, not big enough for myself and three kids. I'm thinking it makes more sense to just bring them home and my D6 misses a day of school.
It's not gonna look good for you if she finds out you confirmed picking the kids up last Friday and didn't have arrangements made at that time.
Kids = schedule.
Drew, I was planning on bringing them home at the time so I didn't book anything.
Have the kids been back to their old family home since she left?
Yes, they've been back twice. They were home for 8 days at Christmas and 7 days in February.
A six year old can miss a day if school. It's not like she's gonna miss a calculus test. And it's really Ws fault since she's moved them so far away and made visitation cumbersome.
I had looked at bringing the kids home as a way of standing up for my rights as their father.
I have the right to decide where we spend our time together, what we do etc.
I also have the right to take my D6 out of school for a day if it makes sense to do so. I would of course make sure she had any school work for that day so that we could work on it together over the weekend.
I have been using travel points to pay for the hotel rooms up to now but they are almost gone. Once they are totally gone I will be paying for all expenses out of pocket and I just can't afford that right now.
With the cost of hotel, fuel, food, etc, each weekend costs $600 or more (the last weekend with the Monday included and the trip to do the fun things in the city cost $900+). If the kids come home my only costs would be fuel and food at home which likely would be maybe $250. They would sleep in their own beds, play with their toys, have home cooked meals and see my family.
Um, you're pretty much preaching to the choir here, Scorp.
hehe, thanks Drew, it's cool to know the choir agrees with me
Bringing my kids home feels like the RIGHT thing to do. I still have that old quote tumbling around my head though, "do you want to be right or do you want to be married?".
I do seem to be missing the point that being a husband and being a father are two separate things. Doing the right thing as a father would be to bring my kids back home. It may not win me any brownie points as a husband, that's a different matter though.
My fear (yes, still dealing with that) with bringing the kids home right now was that it might derail any chance of my W agreeing to 50/50. Who really knows if it would or not?
Here's another question, if the kids are coming home, do I tell my W about it before hand or just do it and tell her after the fact?
I think the proper thing to do would be to tell her before hand.
I think she should know where her kids are going. That's the right thing to do, to tell her.
I agree unbidden. When the kids have come home the previous two times my W made a major issue about it. The concern I have is that she may refuse to let the kids see me unless I agree to her terms. Not something she has the right to do but if I tell her before I pick the kids up then it's a real possibility.
The other way to look at it is my W definitely doesn't tell me before hand what she is planning with our kids. She just had immunizations done with our D6 and informed me that is what she was doing, she didn't ask if I agreed. She DID tell me before she did it though.
Another example if our D6 just had a sleep over for the very first time away from either my W or I. My W didn't tell me about this at all, I heard about it from my D6 the day before it happened.
If she refuses to let you see your kids, call the cops and your lawyer immediately.
I'd tell her beforehand, I'd imagine if she finds out you haven't told her where they'll be staying there will be a bigger risk of her being upset & threatening your contact? Don't live your life in fear of what she might do, do what you feel is right and that is to tell her beforehand.
It must be so tough knowing she could just stop you seeing them - it's interesting hearing how different the laws are there & how the courts favour 50/50 care, very different here
As Mach said, you want 50/50, but she is making 100% of the decisions for your children.
I'd tell her beforehand, I'd imagine if she finds out you haven't told her where they'll be staying there will be a bigger risk of her being upset & threatening your contact? Don't live your life in fear of what she might do, do what you feel is right and that is to tell her beforehand.
It must be so tough knowing she could just stop you seeing them - it's interesting hearing how different the laws are there & how the courts favour 50/50 care, very different here
I'm going to tell my W my plans beforehand, likely in a message tomorrow at some point. She may just refuse but the bottom line is there is nowhere to stay in her town. If I'd booked the room much earlier it wouldn't have been an issue but the cost is going to be an issue anyway.
I'm going to draft up another message and get some feedback before I send it off.
Here's what I have so far:
W, I will be bringing the kids home on Friday night and they will be staying until Monday afternoon. D6 will be missing school Monday, I have already informed her teacher and will be getting her school work for that day when I pick her up on Friday afternoon.
There are no rooms available through TravelRewardsCo and the cost to book the room without the travel points is too expensive.
You can call the kids while they are on the drive home if you like. You are also welcome to call the kids at any time when they are with me. I am planning on having my family over to see the kids on the weekend as well as doing some things with them in the city.
Am I being too cold with my messages?
My two cents: take the kids home and stick to the schedule. If you want the extra day ask your wife if she'd mind having D6 out of school for the day. If she says no, listen. Now, if she objects to you taking the kids home, politely but firmly reiterate that no accommodation is available and that you will have them back with your wife at the usual (or agreed, if she doesn't mind the extra day) time.
If they refuse to let you see the kids you're off to the lawyers on Monday.
AND DON'T TALK ABOUT THE PARENTING PLAN IN PERSON! Leave it as an email communication for now. It gives you time to think, an opportunity to bring things here or to your lawyers, there's less chance of emotion getting in the way and saying something stupid and you have written evidence of what has been said. DON'T MENTION IT AND DON'T GET DRAWN INTO A CONVERSATION ABOUT IT.
Scorp,
On my phone so this will be brief.
I spent some time yesterday reading Canadian family law. While I am not a lawyer, i want to suggest you spend some time becoming familiar with Section 283, as it could be applied to your situation.
Even without a custody arrangment, canada does have such a thing as parental kidnapping. It is very possible this could be applied to her for moving the kids, but more importantly, to you if you take them back to your province.
Right now, based on what you have written about her responses to your request for custody, the phone calls, and her reaction to you taking them in the past....I would be very careful if i were you.
Personally, i dont believe she is considering your request as much as i believe she is trying to find a way to get the money she seems to want. It feels like a stall tactic to me.
Please understand, around here, kids are the touchy subject. And parenting is more important than ANY marriage. Being a parent and being a spouse are considered two very different things.
Gonna need some help from others...cuz i dont remember the full posting name, but a former poster named Bradley, comes to mind that i think would be beneficial for you to read. Someone will link it.
Well, a couple of things have happened since last night that have made me change my mind. I'm going to be going over to my W's home town and staying there with the kids from Friday until Monday. I checked this morning and a room was available so I took it.
We had a pretty nasty snow storm hit here and we're apparently going to have snow right through the weekend. The roads are bad and aren't likely to be great when I would be driving the kids home on Friday so it's not a good idea to drive with the kids for 4 hours in that weather/road conditions.
Besides that, I won't go into all the details, I had a major feeling last night that bringing the kids home right now would be a bad thing to do. I don't know what may be coming in the near future with my W's decision on 50/50 but I feel like staying in her town with the kids this time is the best way to go.
In the next month the weather will be much better, I will be out of travel points so I won't be able to afford the hotels so at that point I can see bringing the kids home regularly. It's also possible we may have an agreement on 50/50 by then as well.
Cat, thanks for the info. I'd gone over the whole "kidnapping" bit with a few lawyers and I'm ok as far as bringing the kids home with me if I chose to do that, from a legal standpoint anyway.
We had a pretty nasty snow storm hit here and we're apparently going to have snow right through the weekend. The roads are bad and aren't likely to be great when I would be driving the kids home on Friday so it's not a good idea to drive with the kids for 4 hours in that weather/road conditions.
Isnt the universe amazing?? No matter what we plan the universe says the last word always
Ye, yeah, it kinda feels like I had some help making the right decision on this one.
Now that I've decided I'm going to stay in my W's town for the weekend I'll need to let her know I'm keeping the kids until Monday later in the afternoon. It will be a bit hard on my D6 going to school Monday knowing I'll still be in town but I'd thought I could possibly pick her up from school and have supper with all of them before I drop them off.
I think I should let my W know my plans today or tomorrow.
Maybe something like "W, I will be staying in town until Monday afternoon.
I will pick D6 up from school on Friday and will also take her to school Monday morning. I will also pick D6 up from school Monday and will take all of them to dinner before I drop them off with you.
S2 and D4 will be staying with me for the day. I will let D4's school know she will not be in on Monday."
Do you guys have a regular drop off time? I'd state the time you'll drop them off or ask when your wife would like them home by? Just a courtesy thing. The rest of your message looks good. No BS.
Thanks unbidden, Barry.
We have been doing 3pm on the Sunday and the past Monday. Since I plan to do dinner with my kids on Monday so that my D6 can see me after school for a bit that won't work.
There's a fairly high chance my W won't agree to the kids staying with me until Monday at all. She didn't object the last weekend when I kept my kids until Monday but they didn't have school that day so this will be different.
I was almost always the one to drive my D6 to school before she left so it really shouldn't be an issue but we'll see.
Just thinking, is there ever a time when it's ok to try to say something about our M to my W?
I have not said anything to her for a few months about trying to work on things. We've had zero direct contact since last October, we've never spoken on the phone or seen each other since the day she left. How could she have any idea on who I am now without having any real contact at all?
The thing that is driving me crazy is that she has no idea who I really am or how far I've come since she's left. I know I'll be ok without her and I know I will have 50/50 with my kids. I just don't understand how anyone can be so stubborn and unwilling to even consider that we could at least be friends if nothing else.
You are not ready yet, let things flow, when things are smooth for most of us it seems "weird" so instead of accepting we push to modify the control over things.... The universe its working on your sitch, let it take control over, you sit down quiet and watch, there is a great great movie I watched today, its called "the shift" by Wayne dyer if you buy the book it comes the dvd inside and I can tell you that its just fantastic...
When your W its ready to talk about M she will, when she wants to be friends, she will, she will approach you eventually....go back and read your threads over and over and see the change in yourself and then youll realize something important: you accomplished your first goal, be grateful for that and if you can watch this other video from TED Shawn Ancor positive phsycology and youll see how you are doing now what he said students do after they are admitted to college
Scorp, it certainly doesn't seem now is the time for you to have an R talk with your W. I know, I thought the same thing - what if he misses me but then if I go LC/NC he will think I don't love him anymore? Here's what everyone told me, and it is true. If your W has any interest in working on the M, she knows how to let you know. Right now she has made it crystal clear that she has no interest in that. (I'm sorry, I don't mean to be harsh, I know it [censored] but you need to make sure you are being real with yourself.)
I just don't understand how anyone can be so stubborn and unwilling to even consider that we could at least be friends if nothing else.
You may never understand her reasons for what she has done or will do. Most of us don't understand WASs at all.
But honestly, would you really want to be friends with your W at this point? There was a point where I wanted to be friends with my H, but then I realized that the real reason was so that I could try to win him back, or so that it would be harder for him to find someone new. What is your reason for wanting to be friends? Could you really ever accept just being her friend, after being M to her? Is she treating you like a friend right now?
“being friends” translates to “not ready to let go”
Ye, I agree, I'm not ready yet and our sitch isn't anywhere near being to the point where any mention of being friends or especially working on our M would be taken positively. I was thinking more about how does anyone know when a good time would be?
I just recognize how far I've come and think my W would think my changes are very cool too, the problem is I don't think she really has seen them yet or if she has she doesn't believe they are real or permanent.
Mel, she doesn't seem to have any interest in R at all, but then I don't necessarily believe everything she's saying about that either. I think she doesn't want to do anything to encourage me or give me any hope so she's being as cold and detached as she can be. Believe it or not, my W and I pretty much did share the same brain (pretty incredibly at times) and I still get the feeling that she has feelings for me but she's afraid to ever show that in fear she would be hurt again.
As far as being friends, I think I could be for sure. We're always going to be joined together as parents to our kids and that would be so much easier if we could get along well. She's definitely not treating me as a friend right now. Hopefully given enough time that will change. She's missing out on some very cool changes with me, if she refuses to see them then it's her loss
Scorp -
This is my first post to you and I apologize for not being completely up to date on your sitch... I just read a few of the latest posts and I also noticed our kids are practically the same ages!
I am three years into my separation now and yes, it took a very long time for me and my H to even be on friendly terms. We were BOTH too hurt and angry... For some time, we barely spoke and at times even only communicated by email.
We are now doing much better. I won't call it a true friendship, but we are always on friendly terms.
My point is that it takes time...and that's ok too.
Both parties need to heal. And yes, our kids are very young and we have a lifetime of activities, events, major decisions and things that will keep our lives intertwined with our spouses in one way or another.
So stay patient. Let your W deal with her emotions and anger. The storm will calm down and hopefully you will then both be open to at least having a healthy co-parenting relationship, if nothing else.
After all, it's the best for the kids...
In the meantime, focus on YOU and your wonderful kids.
Life has given you this precious time where you can focus on those two things, (which are the most important things in your life), without have to worry about your R with your W for the moment.
If you change your perspective to see this time as an opportunity, you can accomplish a lot.
Take advantage of it!
And stay strong!
I meant to say "having to worry", not "have to worry".
Scorp,
No R or M talk at all. If you do see W, I'd be sure to wear some new clothes. I did each time I did the dog switcheroo with Ms. Wonka and she noticed!
Isn't your MIL the one who will be doing the kid switcheroo this Friday? How's that happening? Will you be going to W's house?
keep_going, I'm looking at this as an opportunity to make myself the best version of me I can, sounds corny but it's true. In time anything is possible so I'm not giving up hope, I'm just not dwelling on a R any longer.
gabbysmom, the custody issue is number one right now as far as my W and I are concerned. Depending on how that goes it may be a major obstacle to a good relationship between my W and I. I can't let that effect my decisions when it comes to my kids though.
Wonka, I think I'm actually looking and feeling better than I have in years. I've lost about 15 pounds of flab and gained that back in muscle, it feels awesome! I've been working out nearly every day so the changes are pretty obvious. I do try to look my best even if it's only been my MIL that I see when I pick up the kids. I pick the kids up at a coffee shop or at the hotel I'm staying at so far, no visits to the in-laws to this point. I still see my W as a scared deer, she's hiding from me for whatever reason. In time, if she would be willing to see me and maybe chat I think she'd be blown away by the changes I've made.
My W's bday is next week. I feel the right thing to do is to help my kids get her a card and I am going to purchase a gift that they can give her as well.
She loves reading so would an ereader be out of line?
My kids and I have always shopped together for gifts for their Mom so I think it's important to keep up that tradition.
Scorp,
How about letting the kids pick out the gift for their Mommy? I wouldn't get W an e-reader. How about picking a book that will generate a positive memory for W? What are her favorite genres?
Her favorites were generally fiction, fantasy or mystery but she would read the odd bio as well.
I'd thought an ereader since an actual book could be too personal in an odd sort of way.
Maybe she would like the DB/DR books
kidding
Fifty Shades of Grey might be too much here . . .
unbidden, it's funny you mention that. My W DID read those books last summer. I'd thought maybe that she was missing something in the bedroom but she said at the time it just gave her more ideas for us. She also told me I reminded her of the Mr Grey character... didn't know what to make of that at the time and I still don't.
Actually, the books get a lot of press because of the whole S & M angle but it's actually very limited. It turns out that it's a really incredible (as in far-fetched) love story that women really get into. That's why it's so popular, more for the love and the great sex that these in-love characters have together than for extreme bondage. The female version of porn. You must be cute if she compares you to him
Well, I think my W thought I was cute
Not sure if she still thinks that. I'm guessing though that she was more talking about our sex life, it was pretty intense, maybe too much at times for her.