Last thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2423264&page=11Last write up I did on that thread. "Thanks Wonka for the kind words. Yes, I did make it through, the W and OW didn't cause any issues to me.
I will always have that "special love" as you said for my W as well. It is good that love has it's own place, as I don't feel disloyal to the girlfriend.
One thing I have been doing, or not doing, is comparing the new girlfriend to the W. Thankfully they are very different, body type, height, hair colour, personality and attitudes (in a good way).
I am also not thinking of this woman as a future Mrs HWA. It may happen who knows, but it is not the plan. Not to mention based on her personality, that would probably be a very long way before that happens. If anything I don't have the need to "rebound" or feel a void of being married. I am enjoying, dating and spending time with the new woman and that is all.
The only thing I cannot do at this stage, is date as many people as possible. While I am with this woman, I won't date anyone else. If I am single again later (hopefully not), then I will date again. I do know what you mean Wonka by dating as many people as possible, and the scenario you put it in.
Please, I don't want to become a CAT or DOG person, so will continue to keep my heart going with good love.
The final thing was rather than the relationship being "it all", it was more meant as the question of when you were dating, did you have in your mind, this is enjoying some form of companionship and love, until the W comes back. Rather than just enjoying the companionship and love? Does that make sense?
I do thank you very much for the interest and support you have given over the last 2 months or so Wonka.
The W's birthday is next Tuesday. I have decided to send a simple message saying "Happy Birthday W, I hope you it's a great day." I would feel very uncomfortable and not a great person if I simply ignored her special day."
Since then, I did send the W a text message on her birthday. Simply saying "Happy Birthday W, have a great day.". Got a reply back within minutes saying "thank you, I am heading off to work now."
I have been dating this other woman "vikingblonde" (as per her dating site name) for over 6 weeks now. Feeling great, very little thinking about the W, though it still does happen. Splitting of assets is nearly over now. Payout money has gone to the solicitors, new mortgage papers are being drawn up.
Funny how quickly the "family" wanted me to remove my belongings from their places (ie: the bike and shipping container), but now that the jet ski needs to be picked up, no one seems to be able to do it. Not going to be nasty about it, just one of those hmmm moments.
I am in a good place now. I have a lovely woman I see 2 or 3 times a week, the properties are nearly all transferred over, I don't need to see any of the W's family or friends anymore and my future is looking very good.
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Little bit more of an update.
Houses have been transferred to me now. First mortgage payments have been done. Jet ski was picked up last week. Cash payout figure has also been given to the solicitors.
Therefore there is no more items to split, be picked up or paid for now.
I am still dating this wonderful woman I met 3 months ago. We spend a lot of time talking, communicating and giving great compliments to each other.
No contact from the W at all. Last contact was the 21st party where we simply said hello to each other.
I heard from my brother (still a friend on facebook with W) that the W is going to China in September and has taken some long service leave. Completely gobsmacked over that, as she has never mentioned any interest in China over the last 20 years or so. Considering this is her first overseas trip, I would have thought a place that was in her wish list would have been better.
I am enjoying life very much. My work is great, my time without the new partner is good (I am not sitting at home lonely), I am trying new things to do (tried surfing and stand-up paddleboarding last weekend) and I feel very blessed where my life is.
Good for you! Sounds like you're doing great!!!!
HWA,
What a change! You've come a long way, baby! Keep up with the good changes and forward-thinking attitude. Good things will come to you. I'm happy for you. Good job!
I have watched your progress, brother... Long strange and hard trip it has been, too...
Neither one was able to save our Ms but we saved ourselves. The things we have learned have made us better men and far better prepared to move ahead.
Carry on!
What a wonderful update! You worked hard to get where you are at today. Happy for ya!
Thank you well wishers. Like a lot of LBS's, you never believe at the start what working on yourself can do. But believe me it does work.
It has been a long and painful road, but great down the track.
Still have moments of "what the heck happened with my M", but they pass quickly.
My big focus is trying to have a better relationship with my sons. Both of them have kind of kept to themselves over this BD, not wanting to talk about their own feelings or views. All I can do about that is: constantly be positive when they are with me, or when I am talking to them over the phone. Offer my help or open door to the house. Not mention the W to them.
I had the sons over for an Easter baked dinner (my first baked dinner) and asked them their views on me dating (they don't know about the new woman), also I decided to tell them about my side of the asset splitting. This was mostly due to the MIL and possible other family members blaming me for being selfish and taking both properties from the W. So I simply told them that I hadn't fought their mother on anything, but just agreed to what she wanted, even though I didn't think it was in her best interest.
Nearly another 2 months down the track.
Still trying to get more time with the sons, but not as much as I would like. Although, I am in a better more positive place about how they are dealing with the separation and doing their own things. I don't feel as bad about "what I have done to lose them" thoughts.
Papers come through from the solicitor last week advising that all the legal separation has now been completed. Therefore the W can no longer come and take/ask/demand anything else.
Mentally I am prepared for the divorce papers that I believe the W will be issuing asap. In a way, I feel ready enough to issue them myself, but won't. I still am standing for no responsibility towards the loss of our marriage, in the legal way. I won't be the person who initiated any of the separating stages.
I didn't do the separation at BD, I didn't leave the house. I didn't initiate the splitting of assets, and I won't do the divorce.
On the relationship side, I am still enjoying the most fantastic times with my new partner. Close to 5 months together now.
We are communicating on a level that I never could before. I feel great, we enjoy our times together. I put her first before my wishes and wants.
I am no longer a person who is rushed and stressed because we are running out of time or late. At work I notice so many changes from the old me. The person who would stress, blame and be angry over things, is now calm, accepting and comfortable with things.
Bit by slow bit, I am doing the house the way I want, along with some wonderful ideas from the partner. But she has made it clear, it is my choice to do the changes, she is just giving ideas to me.
While there is no rushing into our future, we have had some lovely talks about our long term future: retirement, home ownership (different location), holidays and general life stuff.
Have heard from the W via text, twice since the last update.
I got a "Happy Birthday" from her and just last week a text asking for the jetski paperwork so she could pay for the registration. It was already sent to her solicitor, but she should have already done the legal transfering of this.
What was the shock, was getting a 50th birthday card from the in-laws. Back in Feb the MIL tore shreds off me and blamed me for everything and demanded to know why I was so selfish with the splitting of assets etc. We have never spoken since.
Then I get a card saying Happy Birthday.......love from Mum and Dad. To this day I am still confused about that.
Anyway, all people were given an appreciated thanks for the birthday wishes.
That is me for a few months. Still check up here regularly, just haven't reached a comfortable point to reply to other people situations yet.
Take care all.
HWA!
Good to hear from you. You sound much stronger and happier these days. Yes, having a new partner does help. Just be self-aware of potential red flags as it usually takes about 6 months or so to really see the other person along with flaws and all other baggage.
DBing is the best self-help therapy, ins't it? We'll DB for the rest of our lives and we have MWD to thank for all of this!
You keep trying to work on your R with your boys...reach out as often as you can. With my late father, we used to talk regularly on Sunday evenings on the phone.
Thanks Wonka.
I am very self-aware of possible red flags, but to this day haven't seen a sight of anything resembling one.
In saying that, having time away from each other throughout the week, while hard at first, is actually good for the relationship.
I will forever be grateful for MWD and DB for turning me and my life around. Without this group, Laurie on the phone, the books and me being prepared to do something positive, I probably wouldn't be here.
I will continue to work with the boys on our relationships, but am more accepting that it is their age etc that is why the relationship isn't the best. Rather than blaming them or me for the lack of relationship due to the separation.
I went out to the movies with the youngest son two nights ago, ringing the oldest up tonight and will do another dinner for them both in about a fortnights time.
Will keep updating every so often.
Just had a reality check with the W yesterday. While my relationship with the sons isn't the best after the BD. I have been trying to build the relationship up, by showing and being a better Dad to the boys. I still feel I am an outsider to them.
Anyway, last night my oldest S21, told me his fiance (engaged for the last 9 months) has quit her job, deferred her last year at Uni and called off the January wedding.
All I could do was offer empathy, a place for him to stay and whatever support he needed.
What hurt was the W knew about this 2 weeks ago. Not even a text to let me know he was in pain, hurting and had this happen to him. I would think a situation like this would at least warrant a text to let me know. I can only imagine that I wouldn't be told anything if any of the sons went to hospital or were hurt.
So the reality check is that I am not going to be treated as a co-dependant parent with her, but left out of the equation.
I had been in regular contact with my son over the time he had the fiance walk out. So he decided for whatever reason (sadness, scared, worried, embarrassed) not to talk to me as well.
I know this is all baby steps work. I know I have to work hard at my relationship with my sons, to have them feel a lot more secure in talking to me about their personal life. It just hurt to hear your flesh and blood has been hurt and you find out after everyone else has.
HWA,
So sorry to hear this. Perhaps your son may not feel "man" enough to open up to another man. Is it a man thing? Dunno. You can gently ask son how he's feeling and tell him that you're there for him no matter what. You're hurting for him and make him aware that he's free to tell you whatever is on his mind.
Keep working on that R with your boys. Don't give up. Keep at it.
How's your new life? Lady friend? New job?
I'm so glad to see that you've checked in here.
Wonka, everything is great outside of what happened to my son. The job transfer to this school back home is fantastic. Great people, bosses and actually enjoy going to work each day. A better outlook in life helps.
My partner and I have been together for over 5 months now. A big weekend coming up, her birthday. Off to the Palace Versace and an Audi TT car hire (her favourite) for the day and night.
Communication with the partner is fantastic, we talk about what affects us, our future, worries, joys and us.
While it may not show (my opinion only), I know how much I have changed inside. The things I would have done previously just aren't the same.
I am less stressed, less anxious and less rushed. I am more accepting of other people and their concerns or views.
With regards to my boys, I won't be giving up and will keep at it. We are all (my two sons and I) going to the movies tonight. Had to tell the oldest son he didn't have a choice, he is coming out tonight. Hopefully my son will follow through with "lets talk tonight Dad" after the movie.
With what is going on with the marriage, or the old marriage? All legal separation is over with. Name changes are done on all the registered vehicles. Both houses are in my name, with me know the sole person owing a fortune for this privilege. Though, I feel very lucky to be able to still own the houses. I have paid out the W for her share of the properties. I have the "binding financial agreement" that allows me to change the names on any legal paperwork in the future, if it comes up. All bank accounts have been cancelled. I only have bank accounts (new) in my name.
I am still expecting the divorce papers to arrive at any time. But feel more confident in issuing them myself if nothing by October. That is the deadline I have given myself. Two years.
The W hasn't communicated at all. If a text does come, it is usually a legal once sentence request.
I have accepted my W is gone, my marriage is gone. It hurts, a lot, but it has happened. The W is still on my mind each day. I am trying very hard to stop it, but it is a very slow process.
I am very lucky to have someone special come into my life.
Still enjoying by life, my job and partner. We have now had 7 months together.
No contact with or from the W since I asked her view on our son's fiance walking away.
Actually saw the in-laws today at a fun run. They came up and said hello, said I looked well and then had about 5 minutes of general chit chat. Nothing about what I am doing or what the W is doing.
Started working on improving the house: started painting rooms inside the house, continuing on pulling out the old concrete garden edging and cleaning up the front of the house.
Have bought a new bed and new lounge.
Still awaiting my divorce papers, but nothing yet. Funny I would have expected them many months ago, as the divorce could have been done a year after separation. That year was up 10 months ago. Still haven't reached the point where I want to start the divorce proceedings, though I do feel it will need to be done sooner rather than later. My partner doesn't like the idea of dating a married man, neither do I like being still married while continuing a good partnership with a good woman.
Take care all.
HWA,
It seems to me that you're carving a new life with you and making changes to your house that YOU want and like. How wonderful is that??!
You're doing so well with your path. Yes, I am sure there will be moments when you miss the old marriage and your family unit. Nowhere to go but forward..right?
Keep going, mate!
Thanks Wonka, you wrote exactly how it is.
It is great to start and carve a new life, making changes to me and my house along the way. It is wonderful, really wonderful.
There are moments that I miss the marriage, the routine, the family unit. I really expected it would decrease, especially with the new partner, but it hasn't.
I am still struggling with the sons, it just doesn't seem like that have any interest in their father.
**** Laurie if you are reading, is it good to use my last call to discuss issues around my sons???????
What is certainly great, is the ability to recognise so much difference in my old self and how I acted with the W, to the new me and how I act with the new partner. I love it.
Feeling quite sad for the W. Just found out she got the transfer with the OW to Gympie (about 1.5 hours away from Brisbane). But she ended up in a school about an hour away from where they will be living. In a country area that is a long way to drive.
The W also found out that her parents and sister, along with my sons, want to buy a large house, still in Brisbane and all live together.
There is a room for the W, but not the OW, and the W would also have to quit her job as a teacher.
It does seem the family are not happy with the choices she has made.
I don't feel any happiness for what is happening with her, but I know that she has made this choice and therefore she must go through doing this.
At least she will be with her OW, rather than in a country area all by herself.
I wish I could say something to her, but I am not supposed to be aware of these happenings. I also understand I shouldn't say anything anyway.
Also feeling sad that my two boys are more interested in living with the SIL and the W's parents, rather than with me.
While trying to be positive about everything, it still feels (to me) that I am solely responsible for all that has gone on. It hurts to know that the boys lives have been so changed because of this separation.
It does seem though, that the boys are showing the W the same level of communication etc as me.
Life is still going very well with my partner. We just celebrated 8 months of togetherness. Communication is big and going well.
One thing I do need to be aware of and alter, is talking about how I feel about the loss of the friends and family (not the W) to my partner. It usually comes up from another subject, rather than just talking about the family/friends.
How often to you talk to your kids? Have you had a heart to heart with them?
MrBond, I have had many heart to hearts with the boys. Way back in the beginning, apologising for my part of what has happened. Then over time, discussing why and how I got the house, could I/should I date and their view on it. To only a few weeks ago, telling them I have a new partner and introducing her to the boys.
The boys are simply shut down, when any discussion is about us, the situation or what happened.
I feel the boys hear enough from the SIL, who they live with. She is definitely a person who tells it how it is, from her perspective.
I contact the boys weekly, usually texting, but also calls. I am starting to do monthly dinners and have invited them to some places we/I might be going to.
I suppose what I try to do with the boys, is show them the new me all the time. Be happy, communicative and ask them what is happening to them. I try to validate as much as possible.
I try to be the Dad that will be available for them when I am needed. It just isn't the time that they need me now.
HWA,
Boy..that was a tough reading...even to me.
Here's the thing...they're all grown ups. They make decisions that you may not always like or agree with. It is how they want to forge a life of their own.
Just as you are with your new partner. It is a positive to read that you do try to reach out to your boys. For me, my best memories of when I called my late father on Sunday evenings no matter where I was in the US. It was a ritual that we never broke until I moved in with him when he had cancer and passes away two years ago.
Likewise with my mother....I talk with her frequently.
Perhaps you can try this and see if you can establish some type of phone ritual with your boys. Just a thought.
Thanks Wonka. One of the great things I am learning and listening to, is having the new partner talk to me about the boys. She says exactly what you say, they are grown up and will make their own decisions and choices. It takes a while, but slowly that is sinking in.
I am accepting that the boys are doing their own thing.
I am their Dad, and always will be. I am very pleased and in a way honoured that they answer my texts quite quickly, haven't declined any invitations and saw me for Fathers Day.
I am trying to start up a ritual, which is having dinner once a month. But like all rituals, it takes time.
I cannot have a regular phone call time with the youngest son as he is doing shift work, which changes each week. So I usually have to text him, asking when he is available to ring.
Actually ringing him tonight :-)
The oldest one is a lot more easier: we talk briefly on Facebook and text. Chatting on the phone maybe each fortnight.
The hard thing was just conversing on the phone. Neither boy wanted to ask questions and trying to get any info (not about the Wife) about what they are doing or have done, was like pulling teeth. Bloody hard.
In one way I think buying the house from the W was probably something the boys don't enjoy. By that, I mean they probably don't like visiting the house because of it's memories of being the family home.
I think while I am being positive about the knowledge the boys don't hate me, but are simply being young adult boys and not paying too much attention to their parents, the hard part is that they both live with the SIL. It would be so much easier to handle them living with friends etc.
The SIL is very bitchy at times, quick to point fingers and has a way of making sure her opinion is the right opinion.
Again, I just have to deal with the cards I have been given.
I am still very lucky to have the boys in my life, while I wish it was more, at least they are still there.
Sorry to hear the passing of your father, it does sound like you really loved that ritual of Sunday evening calls.
Take care Wonka.
Tomorrow is my 2nd anniversary of the BD. At least I am in such a better head space than I was 1 year ago. I have a beautiful partner in vikingblonde. I have learnt to listen better, to speak my view better, to actually hear someone else's view, to accept their view.
I am trying to be a better communicator in all avenues of my life: my Mum, my sons, my vikingblonde, my friends, even my students I deal with at school.
I think I have reached, or at least very close to, accepting my W is on her own journey. I cannot change or help her achieve anything, it is her job to do that.
I miss her, still love her, and will probably till my last days on earth, wonder why she chose this path for her journey. I will always wonder why she never asked to go to counselling, to confide in the chaplain about her thoughts, or even speak to the family members.
I have accepted my part I played in this event. But I will not accept that I made her have an affair, or choose this outcome she made. That is her doing.
I have accepted the way the family and our mutual friends have acted towards me, but do not agree with the way they did this. I have accepted the loss of those family members and friends. I do not want them to be part of my life now or ever.
I am a new hotwheelsaust, a new person that my wife will never know or see. Someone she probably wished I was when we were together.
It took me a long time to reach this point, but at least I was one of the people who did. I wish I listened to the vets and acted accordingly back at the beginning, but stubborn me thought my way was better. Reality is, it probably wouldn't have made a difference anyway, she was in too deep for anything to work.
Onwards and upwards :-)
Hey HWA,
I'm really liking your new attitude and approach to life. Sounds awesome! Yeah....divorce or splitting up also means changes in families, friendships, and other old structures. It s*cks!
Your new partner sounds like she's a good listener and supportive of you. How wonderful for you!
Thank you so much Wonka. Is amazing when you look back and see how far you have come. Like a lot of people, you never believe at the beginning you could ever achieve it.
I am enjoying life immensely, especially with the changes I needed to make to me.
The new partner is a great listener and very supportive, but it goes both ways. That is why it works.
Yes, the changes in families, friendships and old structures does suck, but on the other hand, making new friendships, families and new structures is a good GAL activity.
I have decided that I can no longer wait for the W to do the divorce. My new partner, while not hounding me, has mentioned it isn't fair that she is dating a separated husband, rather than a single man.
I accept that, it isn't right. We have been dating for over 9 months now.
I have reached my point in life where I am comfortable to go ahead with the divorce.
The W has not contacted me for around 6 months, I have seen her for nearly 8 months and she is moving to a new area with the OW at the end of our school year, mid December.
As vets have mentioned many times in the forum, a piece of paper means nothing.
What does mean something to me, is the standing up for myself, the improving of my life and not being left holding the rope hoping that the W doesn't divorce.
Therefore I have an appointment with my solicitor this Friday to start divorce proceedings.
Do any vets have comments about how/why I should contact her to let her know this is happening.
Should I just say "As a courtesy I have started divorce proceedings"?
Or should I write a little bit more detailed text to her stating more? Along the lines of: I knew I lost you when......you moved out, you split assets, you moved in with the OW, you admitted the affair to your family.........now you have lost me. I still have love for you, but don't love you. I only wish the best for you and hope you find the happiness you so wanted. I have no anger or bitterness towards you.
Something along those lines.
If you want to get a D, don't do it to get a reaction out from your W. It seems like you're still expecting that. You have a new woman. Concentrate on her.
Or should I write a little bit more detailed text to her stating more? Along the lines of: I knew I lost you when......you moved out, you split assets, you moved in with the OW, you admitted the affair to your family.........now you have lost me. I still have love for you, but don't love you. I only wish the best for you and hope you find the happiness you so wanted. I have no anger or bitterness towards you.
Something along those lines.
Noooooo! NO. NO. That will get you nowhere at all, HWA. Keep your mouth zipped.
Just do what you feel the need to do and have your attorney work on D paperwork. Then have the attorney contact STBXW and ask her for her attorney's name.
It is all in your L's hands. Focus on YOU and your new life.
I know Bond said not to file for a D just to get a reaction from W, but if this is what you FEEL and want to do so, then do what you must do. It is all up to you.
"if this is what you FEEL and want to do so, then do what you must do. It is all up to you."
Agreed. It's not fair to the woman you're seeing now if you're just using her to get a reaction from your W.
Thank you Wonka and MrBond.
I am not doing this for any reaction from the W. I am doing this for me, the time has come for me.
Yes, I am taking into account the new woman and how unfair it is to her, to be dating someone who is still separated after 2 years of no contact with the W.
I am not doing it for the new woman, but I have empathy for how she must feel.
Mouth will be zipped Wonka, just checking before I do anything. See something I have learnt from my past :-)
Thought I should give a small update:
The partner and I are celebrating one year together next weekend, who would of thought I would have been here 18 months ago. I am very happy and pleased to say the DB principles have and are great for the relationship. I am a new man, with new principles in life and actually talk about any issues.
I am still waiting for the divorce to come through finished. The solicitor did say it would take a few months.
Saw the W for the first time in many, many months in December for our S22 graduation. She looked the same, but did not represent the person I was married to for so long. There was no connection, no skipping of the heart, just a person I knew.
The W has now moved away from the country, and as expected, with the OW, to a town about 1.5 hours away from her family and our boys.
I am still not having a great relationship with my sons, with very little communication and visits. I suppose I am going with the attitude that my son's are young adults and the parents are not the people they want to spend most of their time with. Somewhere in the last few weeks I heard something from the boys that made me feel that the W is in even less contact with them and/or less knowledge about them. Not that it is a contest, but made me feel that I wasn't the way shunned by them, but maybe both of us have been shunned by them.
Maybe it is just the way for the son's to deal with the situation????
Anyway, my relationship, work and life in general is great. I don't focus on the W anywhere near how I did. I am getting better and better each day accepting my son's relationship with me. Yes I want it to be better, but I still have communication with them, which is a heck of a lot better than not.
Most importantly Wonka, I sent the W a short courtesy text stating I have filed for divorce, nothing more, nothing less. I got a friendly, if somewhat weird response back, but nothing else. The solicitor is dealing with everything else. The W initiated a "Merry Christmas" text to me and I replied thanks back to her. I had no intention of sending her a Christmas text.
Hope everyone still reading this is doing well.
One last thing. Over the last two months or so, I have seen through my partner's discussions how toxic the W's family was to the marriage and me.
It never really felt that way at the time. The W and I always felt like the black sheep of the family. But now meeting and spending time with the partner's family, I have realised how miserable the W's family was and how I really didn't seem to fit into the relationship with them. I was just the W's husband, rather than a son in law.
I am still not having a great relationship with my sons, with very little communication and visits. I suppose I am going with the attitude that my son's are young adults and the parents are not the people they want to spend most of their time with.
I would say give your sons another 5 years or so.
Kids are not fully mature until around age 25.
And although my kids are so much more successful than me,
they have matured and want the advice and friendship
with their father.
In this case TIME is really on your side.
Thanks Cadet, the partner says the same thing. Give them plenty of time. And really that is all that can be done. They (hopefully) see a better father than I had ever been. A more positive person. Someone who actually thinks and cares about them.
Well just received a text from the W, asking if we could meet up for lunch this coming Saturday.
Strange how the new partner mentioned only a few weeks ago, that once the divorce hits the W, she will be coming around. Now out of the blue, lets do lunch.
So what do I do?
I feel that in some ways I should reply the way she did towards me in the beginning, with an answer like "what do you need to see me or talk about?" But I am better than that now.
I also feel I should ignore or simply state no. Again, that just isn't me and I know I couldn't do that to her.
I then feel that I should meet her, but could I regret (ie: affair is over, lets work on us etc)what is discussed over lunch, or do I really want to hear what she has to say.
I haven't replied to her yet, remember the 24 hour rule :-)
HWA,
Hey buddy...good to hear from you.
Hmmmm....interesting.
How do you feel about this?
What is your initial response in your head?
Ya know, it is not given that you must always say "yes".....
Hey Wonka, good to hear from you also.
How do I feel? Well mixed feelings. Firstly I don't feel any love or excitement. Most of the feelings are whether she wants to talk about us and what didn't work or whether she wants to try something now. Otherwise my other view is, she wants to talk about buying the townhouse off me or something along the lines of what she wants or needs.
In a way, I am scared.
I am scared that I have started getting my life all sorted out, and now this comes along.
What if she now goes, lets try marriage counselling. My emotions would be all over the place.
While I am not prepared to walk away or give up on my partner, I also don't want to have in my head the "what if" from the W.
I now I don't have to say yes, but I am also trying to be the better person since BD and this is one of those moments that are hard to determine what is the better way.
HWA,
I can understand your fears and uncertainty about W. If I were you, I'd go ahead and meet with W. I very much doubt she wants to get back together with you. Go in there with an open mind and go with the flow. Don't make any promises or assurances that you cannot keep. A simple, "let me think about it" is good enough.
Yeah, I can see that you've made some real progress and trying to turn around your life with your new lady friend.
Wonka,
I don't want to keep anything from my "lady friend". So to make her feel comfortable, what is the best way to discuss meeting up with the W.
It certainly isn't/wouldn't be a great emotional moment for her.
Well I sent the reply. "W, I can meet you for lunch. Is there any specific reason you wish to meet? hotwheelsaust"
Got an instant response: "no specific reason. I know you have a partner now and that we are divorcing. I thought it might be good if we could still talk but i do understand if you think it's not a good idea."
Still I will go to lunch with an open mind, but also prepared for a lot of emotional things that might come up.
Gday Cadet.
I am meeting her this Saturday for lunch.
Good luck, HWA!
Don't forget to take a deep breath before the meeting. You got this.
Well just spent an hour and a half with the W. Wasn't bad at all. Some of the things that were discussed.
* We both worry about our youngest not having much in the way of friends and/or social life.
* We both accept the boys are adults and we cannot control them.
* She doesn't get any texts or phone calls from the sons either, and at one stage she felt like stopping calling or texting them.
* Her family have been nasty to her. Including if she didn't come back to the city, then they will no longer visit her. That didn't happen as they have visited her since.
* How much the country job service affected us both. I also let her know some more of the things I had to put up with during my country service with work issues.
Some of the things I got from the meeting:
* She has a nice new car
* She comes down to the city more often that I thought.
* She doesn't come across as being really happy in life.
* She doesn't like what her sister says and does about and to her.
* She lost a lot of friends also since the separation.
What didn't get discussed:
* Either of our partners.
* Future
* No talk about divorce, separation and/or future of us.
So basically I came away from the meeting still comfortable and happy. One little thing did get to me, was how during lunch, we chatted just as happily as we did prior to BD. It just makes you wonder what happened.
After the meeting and spending time thinking about it all, I sent an email to the W asking 3 questions.
Wife,
I do this with a heavy heart, knowing that you have most likely got sick of this type of questions.
For me to get some closure, I need to ask three questions of you. Could you please be brutally honest about the answers. I can and will accept your reply. These questions/answers are only between you and me, I will not be speaking or taking them up with anyone else. You don't have to answer straight away.
1. Why didn't you fight for our marriage? Why didn't you drag me to marriage counselling or go yourself (if I was stubborn not to)? I know you mentioned in a reply a long time ago, that you knew I loved you, but I didn't show that love to you anymore.
2. Would we be separated/divorced if we didn't go to Emerald (country area for work)?
3. Do you hate or feel let down that I instigated the divorce?
I enjoyed seeing you the other day and I truly do wish you all the happiness your new life brings.
All the best
Hotwheelsaust
I got a reply within 24 hours:
"Dear Hotwheelsaust, I understand you need answers to these questions and I will be honest with you.
1. Why didn't you fight for our marriage? Why didn't you drag me to
marriage counselling or go yourself (if I was stubborn not to)?
I always did know you loved me no matter what you acted like, did or didn't do. It just wasn't enough for me to know that and still have such loneliness and sadness in our marriage. I have thought about this many times and talked with my counsellor about it also. My attempt to try and fix and help the situation was to take you to the doctor and try and help the depression and anger that you had while we were at Emerald. Right or wrong it's all I could think of to do at the time.
Looking back I struggled with feeling extremely lonely and isolated. Luke was my support and my rock while you retreated further into computer time and running and ignoring us. I see that as your attempt to cope with it all also. Knowing I would lose Luke at the end of the year was too much for me and I didn't think I could cope with you on your own when I was barely managing myself.
When I tried to talk with you about feelings or problems we were having you would either ignore me, walk out or become angry. You would often say "I don't care" in response to me questioning or trying to talk about problems. It felt like love, frienship and respect were gone. I will add here that I was very bad with communication. I was scared of being ignored, I was scared of conflict, of upsetting you or making you angry. I tried to pretend that things weren't happening and just hoped it would get better. I was scared you would be angry if I asked you to come to marriage counselling and I felt the answer would be "I don't care." I felt that I couldn't take that risk and didn't want to fight a losing battle. Please understand that I am owning my own part in this, my own lack of confidence and communication did not help either.
I felt that what I truly missed was having a friend, someone who would support me and make me feel that everything was alright and that I wasn't alone. I started to think that if my husband/partner wasn't acting like my friend then I needed to either be alone or find a friend to support me. I was also scared that you would decide to leave me or in the worst case scenario be depressed enough to take your life. I am always grateful that was not the case.
2. Would we be separated/divorced if we didn't go to Emerald?
That's a tough question that I have often thought of and wished I knew the answer to. I suppose we can only speculate about that. I did think you changed and became angrier, more isolated and defensive after you joined the bike club but I thought that may just have been because of some of the people having an influence on you because you spent time with them. I will say that for my part I still struggled with communication and tended to have my own life separate from you with church and music and family things. I think we were living separate lives in some ways.
Having to be sent to Emerald made things much worse for both of us but I only wish I knew the answer to would we be separated if we hadn't have gone to Emerald. The only answer is maybe, maybe not.
3. Do you hate or feel let down that I instigated the divorce?
No, I don't hate you at all for instigating the divorce. Even though I know I brought about our separation I could never bring myself to start divorce proceedings. I don't know why. To be honest a small part of me still thought maybe we might some day find a way to work it out. Part of me thought that it was kinder and better to just end it fully and let you move on and try to move on myself. Part of me again was thinking that I needed to be free to change and grow up and work out who I am in life and what I wanted. I actually think going to Emerald caused me to have a form of break-down and I think that's part of the reason why I became sick at that time. I wasn't coping.
If you are happy with GF, and I hope that you are, then you deserve to be free to get married again if that's what you both want. If that's what you want then obviously you can't stay married to me. That's why I didn't fight it when you instigated the divorce proceedings. To be honest I felt sadness and regret but definitely no hate towards you. I apologise that I have taken so long to be anywhere near able to speak with you and write these things.
I also enjoyed seeing you for lunch the other day. Thanks for taking the chance on that and spending that time with me. It was nice to be able to relax and have a laugh with you.
Wife. "
While it may/may not have been the wrong thing to do, I needed to do this for me.
Now (and this is where the vets would probably say "told you so") this is where more questions are asked rather than answered.
Does it sound like the W is realising how wrong the separation was? Does she feel responsible for some of it? Does she have any interest in the future of the marriage?
Or does she simply recognise the separation could have been done in a different way?
Some things I still question are: not mention of the OW. No mention of why the rush to separate all assets. No mention of questioning or fighting when I mentioned I am applying for the divorce.
Am I thinking unnecessary thoughts over some answers that don't really mean a whole lot?
In the meantime I still have my beautiful partner of 15 months. Still planning a great future with her.
It is just these replies has got me a bit confused with everything.
What are people's views on this?
In addition I got a few texts over the next few days.
Questions like:
1. Are you engaged as I noticed you are wearing a ring.
It is a dress ring that my partner gave me, not an engagement ring and not worn on the wedding finger either.
2. I got a good night text.
3. Text hoping that I am all right, during some wild storm weather.
Also it was noted about 2 weeks before our lunch, it seems the W drive to my house and into my driveway, before seeing the partner and then taking off.
What do you care? You still ask alot of questions which proves you're still in love with your W. it's not fair to the woman you're with. Either forget her and invest your attention to your new R, or end it and stand for your M.
HWA,
I am glad that you got to meet with XW for lunch for it allowed you two to connect and catch up a bit.
You took a big step in asking your XW questions for your own closure. Try not to make it any more than what it is really. You two have gone your own separate ways. You two will always be tied through your sons.
I get the sense that you're going through some of the "what-if" questions in your mind. I think it is time that you let them go and focus on your present life with your GF.
Unlike many LBSes, you've been given a true gift by XW in the way of her response to your email. In my mind, she was sincere and authentic in her answers. As you probably can see, it was as hard on her as it was on you.
Be grateful for the beginnings of your friendship ith XW. I truly think that if you open your mind to that possibility, you will have a strong, life-long friend in XW. (Gee, I should take my own friggin' advice! When I am ready and on my own terms.)
Yes MrBond I still love my W, and probably always will. Doesn't mean I am in love with her though, just that I have love for her. The questions I asked my W were actually discussed with my new partner, after the lunch meetup with the W. So there is no issue about being/or not being fair to the new partner.
The questions were sent as a form of closure for me. It just so happened that the answers were not what was expected, and in turn surprised me.
Thank you again Wonka for adding your views to all of this. Yes, there were a lot of "what-if" questions. Absolutely. It made me for a while wonder if I was the biggest idiot starting the divorce. Then, after thinking for a while, I started to realise the W had many, many times she could have sent/said some form of glimmer of hope or initiate something.
So you are saying.
ILUBINILWU.
Sound familiar?
Yes Cadet, it does sound familiar, but definitely taken out of context.
I didn't walk away from the marriage, split assets or not move home. I didn't leave a marriage to have an affair.
I was replying to MrBond, that yes I will always have love for her, rather than never care for her again.
I got a letter from the solicitor advising all my divorce paperwork is ready to sign and finalise.
I thought I might have gotten upset about it, but at this stage no signs of any emotion.
I suppose the way I have looked at it, is, the W has had numerous times she could have at least said "stop it", lets work on this. Alas no, nothing has been mentioned. Even after my reply to her answers, that I was devastated there was never a sign when she mentioned she was hoping we could work on our marriage.
I suppose I look at it the way a lot of other before me have: that is she says one thing, but acts a different way.
While it isn't the way I had hoped my marriage might have turned out way back when this happened. I also have gotten to the point where I am comfortable with how I have tried and where I am now.
I have another beautiful partner, who later this year, will hopefully be more than a partner.
I won't be turning back to my W, there was a lovely marriage for 23 years, lovely moments and two fantastic sons. It is finished.
I am now moving onto my next fantastic life and great moments and memories.
My excitement of being engaged to my partner of 18 months. While some will be happy for me, some will also say it is too early etc.
I have made this decision/choice with a lot of thought before going ahead and proposing.
I have learn so much from DB, and in all honesty, need to learn so much more still. But it is great putting that knowledge to practice with my partner, friends and people I meet.
We have been attending church regularly, even going to a church connect group each fortnight. Something the old me would never even think about doing.
It was always in the back of my mind that I never asked the XW's parents permission in advance to marry their daughter. This time around I did ask the parent's permission.
I am a very happy person these days. Able to see things a lot clearer, about to understand other peoples views better, and importantly, able to apologise when I am wrong.
Hey HWA!!!!
It is good to hear from you!! You sound centered and content with your new life. Congratulations on your engagement with your GF. I wish you nothing but peace and happiness for the next half of your life's journey.
You've shown tremendous growth and self-awareness. I love the fact that you've asked GF's parents for permission beforehand. It could be a sign that your new R will be based on a much stronger foundation than your old M.
So happy for you, HWA!
Congrats on your engagement and the new life. Just took a few minutes and read through your thread. Sorry that your old M didn't work out. It's enlightening to hear how much your W struggled emotionally as well. I know that a lot of us in the early days wonder if our W's even care anymore. Hope for all the best for you in your new future.
Thank you both for those lovely and kind words.
It's funny how simply asking the parents beforehand (her parents are divorced for over 30 years, that is why both were asked) was something that I cared about for over 25 years based on the first marriage.
Wonka: I will continue to visit every so often. Occassionally adding things to others situations. I believe the new relationship is being built on better and much stronger foundations. How simple it is to admit and accept your faults or mistakes.
dwh15: It is enlightening when I heard the W struggled emotionally as well. The downside of that was she didn't mention the support of her girlfriend over that time. In fact she hasn't ever mentioned the relationship to me. What was very sad is that she was under the impression (as per her reply to my email questions) that the marriage would some how get back together, without her putting/talking any effort into doing that. In fact not even seeing me or talking to me for months on end.
dwh15: If at anytime during the separation, that the W showed even a tiny bit of interest in working on the marriage, I would have jumped in straight away. I continue to text her "happy birthday" and "Merry Christmas" but that is as far as our conversations go. So sad. I just pray and hope that she is in a much better place for herself now.
Oh my gosh, how are you old friend?? So glad to hear you're engaged, awesome news! How are your boys (well, men
)?
AnotherStander: I am doing great mate. Both the boys took the news about the engagement quite well. I was a bit shocked. The oldest congratulated me and asked if I could pass the congratulations to Vikingblonde as well. The youngest just said that's good.
Both boys are getting better, I sometimes get the phone call or text from them first, rather than me calling first.
Vikingblonde and I are actually travelling to the States for the first time in Xmas. Leave here on the 20th Dec, get on a boat from LA on the 23rd and cruise all the way to Florida. Enjoying Xmas and New Year on the boat. Then 2 nights in Florida and the last night in Miami.
The credit card will end up being maxed out by the time we get home.
Hopefully in a few years, for my long service leave, I will do one of the Summer trips cruising the Route 66, either on a bike or car.
How about yourself? How is everything with you?
Got rung up by the solicitor yesterday. The divorce has been granted by the courts.
On with the new life and new fiance.
During the time since BD, the ex has never mentioned or commented about working on the marriage at all. Never has expressed any error in judgement she has made. Not that I am blaming her for it all.
It therefore makes it easier to accept.
During the time since BD, the ex has never mentioned or commented about working on the marriage at all. Never has expressed any error in judgement she has made.
Its only been three years - What were you expecting?
No expectations, remember Cadet?
Not expecting anything, just simply putting down the info on my page.
I am calm these days. I wish her all the happiness in her life. I don't hold any grudges towards her. Yes I wish things were done differently, but alas, I have no control over her.
Well I thought I should update.
In less than two weeks time I will be getting married to a wonderful and beautiful woman I met over 20 months ago. I credit what I learnt from DivorceBusting with my new found wisdom :-)
I have become a person who listens the proper way to my fiance. Who puts her first and foremost. Who can speak softly and without venom if I have felt wronged.
I am going into this marriage without renewed energy, desire and love for this woman. Who has found a best friend.
On the 17th December we fly out on our honeymoon. We will be leaving for Los Angeles having a few days there, before getting on a cruise from LA to Florida.
I am such a happy person for so many reasons, but the biggest reason is who I have become. Without DB I would not be this person: someone who lives for the next day, is happy so much more and someone who enjoys all of life.
I feel very privileged and thankful that both my boys came to our engagement and are quite happy to come to our wedding. That has meant a lot to me.
Will update regularly.
I have just read your sitch and I am so thrilled that you have found love and happiness
Reading where you have got to and how you see your changes will have massive bearing on your next marriage
Congratulations
Ghost
Really happy for you especially as we are similar ages.
It gives me hope that whatever happens I will be a better man and will find love again either with or without W
Man hugs to you hotwheels!
Thank you both Ghost and isittoolate. While I haven't had a chance to read your sitches yet (will though), it does show that DB principles work, whether for your marriage, and we all hope for that one, or whether for you as a person.
It also is nice to know that there is a future out there for us and if be another mate, it still is a great future.
Becoming that better man is a great future.
Another update: I got married to a wonderful woman 11 days ago. Things I have learnt from DB have helped me 1. to find a beautiful woman 2. to become a better man 3. accept what happened to my first marriage and acknowledge that I am responsible for me only 4. to accept I cannot change anyone else only me 5. know that only I can choose to be happy or not.
In less than 24 hours my wife and I will be heading to the USA for our 3 week honeymoon. Heading to the States is something I have wanted to do since I was a child :-)
Hey HWA!!!
What a wonderful news!!! I am so happy to read that you've married to your lady friend. You've worked hard on yourself and I could not be happier for you. You deserve all the happiness in the world.
Well done!
Thank you Wonka. At least now, I know I have to keep working on myself. I cannot let myself become routine.
I was really pleased that both my sons came to the engagement party and the wedding. I asked them in advance if they were comfortable about coming, both replied all good.
That meant a lot to me that they would be there for me.