Loualea I didn't start this.... - DivorceBusting.com

Thanks Melissa
I love your replies ,,,and they made me think and you know what. I am not the wife from hell..
He has issues not me.. he decides now that a decision made 10 years ago was unfair, that me complaining about a move that was only negative for me and positive for hi m was unfair that was all it took. Even though I was prepared to move..somehow that complaining for 3 months equates to no trust left in him for me... then he decides to start his sad little affair with a numbnut from his company then decides to tell me the marriage was over before the affair.. oops didn't I know
I need help to move and get an apartment, I need help with the costs and the language.. he will like to help.. makes him feel like he is not a total slimeball which is good.I will let him help. Then he can do as he likes. What I think I will enjoy is moving into his new suburb... so he will be able to see how well I manage without him.

I do have the option of totally messing with his head... making him feel very insecure and the possible subject of lot of gossip... have to decide how high I want my moral
ground to be.

I need to add I was given a new job today....a great job...

I also realised that I was not respecting myself by taking so much blame on me...If he is not smart enough to know himself and speak up when he feels pressured or unappreciated why should I be even thinking I should have been doing that for him. If the complaint is I am too controlling then why expect me to monitor and controlled everything so he always feels good about himself. Can't have it both ways..

Actually exciting to think I can make some choices for me without thinking about his ego...

ADVICE NEEDED

The O W is sending me emails from various false accounts, unless she has several..all about getting out of my WS life...
I have ignored them but I am annoyed usually children who do this get tired of it after no response for a coupke of weeks... but she is persistent..

all sorts of stuff they are getting married, he wants to be a father to her children (now that one is a big whopper...he really does not like children)
I don't think he is aware.. do I copy him into the stop bugging me or I will take other
action, email, ask him to deal with her, wait her out though my poor email is always so busy.

My plan was to email and copy him I ..nothing emotional jy4st stop you are
boring , your company would not like to think you do this on their time...but they work for the same company and it is not good for ME if he loses his job..

you see it is all about me these days

my question is that will it achieve my goal of friendlier relationship between us..H and me not O W and me.
it would make me feel better

Stop e-mailing and contacting.

The OW is maybe giving good advice, you are pursuing and you want to stop.

Be Still.

Keep quiet.

What do you think is a 180?

Hey Cadet

that is so .. she is sort of reeling me in... almost encouraging me to make a mistake...
good pick up..
thanks...

First time I a month I have seen my H. We have talked, some times friendly, sometimes not so.
He sent a letterabout a formal separation from a lawyer... did not mentikn it was cominb. Claimed he did not know it was being sent. Said we were separated inAugust? Heated pbones class followed.. he agreed to change it to October. Makes a difference here as you need to be separated for a year before divorce. So I found an old acquaintance who specialises in family law. She is gunning for him. I really did not want this to be adversial so asked this weekend if he would withdraw it. A formL separation will cost him a lot here..
He said he wants it all an even playing field ? Then dropped the line that clarified everything.. I could not u derstand why he was prepared to lose so much... he thinks when we are separated then he won't be having an affair anymore.
He also tried to convince me to share his lawyer but as she had already negle ted to inform me of my rights...I think the very efficient woman I have found is
a better choice..I think he js scared... said I do not have to do whT she says.. but why hire a lawyer and then ignore her?
He sayz we dont have to follow through with the divorce in November...anyone believe him?
Actually now I have agreed that I don't think the marriage was any good and I don't wanr to be married to someone who is having an affair he is much
friendlier.. went out for dinner withfriends and it was fun, he organised the tv satelitte and cleaned part of the house..he said maybe we can be closer.. who knows..
Sadly the man I would hvae trusted with my life is now a liar.. self serving, dishonest, manipulative..
It does not suit me to divorce in one year..I can make life difficult...
He got forms for me to sign to cha ge the tax category we each are in..did not ask if Iwant to.. just assumed..so there they sit u signed...

He is less anvry now I am agreeing and validating..but it is such a lot of effort..I have to zleep on if he is worth it...

Moving forward. .I am not sure how and would value other perspectives and experiences.
The letter from my lawyer to his and to him , was to my mind aggressive. I thought a lot and being antagonistic will not achieve my goal. He is more open to listening now that I am agreeing with him.I think I am fortunate that nothing further can happen until November.
After a lot of thought and discussion with my counselor I decided to stop the process. Here it means that he does not have to pay me 3/7 of hjs usual financial support for 12 months. It felt wrong and I have worked so hard to maintain a positive relationship the last months . This chasing money when he
already pays all the mortgage seemed wrong when financially I don't HAVE to
have it.I had asked him to withdraw the formal separation paperwork he said
no so I had intended to go ahead with the process but changed my mind.
I feel ok about it except when I told him he was angry and said that this is the problem , he doesn't know what to believe, that is why he can't trust me. Yes before you check my thread folks he is having the affair not me.
I am trying to figure out that thinking.
He was friendly when we spoke on the phone and now does not share what he and the OW have planned for the weekend. He used to tell me and it sure was
not good for detaching.
My coach's advise is conversation light and breezy which is fine except when I mention my new hobby of running long distance he gets annoyed because I did not run wirh him.He didn't run though..does now with the OW but never
asked me..I am confused by his reaction.

The other issue is he visits for a weekend and we always end up in relationship talk..how do I avoid that. He said it is weird to do things like movies together .We went to dinner with friends last time and that was good

except the old issues for him wers raised when we were home. Not in angef but still emotionally exhausting.

He feels weird hugging or kissing hello and good bye though to be fair that was
something he had to learn early in our relationship. .his family is odd.

Any advice for weekend visits.When I ask what he wants to do says it is up to me.
So to me he seems detached. I am trying but always good at it.
I tell him I look forward to his visits.

I am willing to visit him but he didn't want me in his apartment. I did that once and not again. I will visit if he can spend the time with me. He said he will find weekends that work?

I move to the town in summer. .new job..planned before his affair. He wants me to not
think we can repair tbe relationship ( so.ethi gI mentioned before DB) I have agreed it would be a bad idea. Which is ot quite truthful .I do want a relationship...just a different one.
so experts where am I ?
Any thing positive here or is it as black and deep and hopeless as it feels most days...before I put on my happy face and act like it is ok?

What do I do with the weekends?
I had to find photos of our house so we can sell it. I told him how sad that made me..I know a mistake. Seeing pictures where he seemed happy but apparently was miserable. ..tough...
I email once a week friendly about the dog garden etc.. we talk once or maybe twice each weekend. .I feel like friendly contact is ok.AmI right? Or am I pretending to myself.
I asked if he could spend some days here in April to get ready to move.It is tr ky.One complaint was I was always controlling but this is an enormous house, we have to move and he is not thinking about it .This would be fine except I will deal with the stress because he will not be here!
I feel like I spin and spin...I have some good forum friends, my counselor is working on me and apart from that no one knows how my life is.. gets heavy but seems like few people except the people here think a marriage is possibleafter an affajr...ma6be they are right?

Hi Lou, great to "see" you.

Your first line is "moving forward," but the rest of your post talks about your H visiting, you emailing your H once a week, you moving to H's town, you refusing to take H's money to which you are legally entitled, expecting to hug/kiss hello and goodbye, asking him to spend time with you at the house that you are sad to be selling, etc.

Are you really moving forward? You didn't mention anything you are doing for yourself, other than running.

Quote:

I thought a lot and being antagonistic will not achieve my goal. He is more open to listening now that I am agreeing with him.

This stuck out to me, Lou. There is a lot of space between being antagonistic and agreeing to whatever your H wants. Please just keep in mind that the emotions you are feeling right now will not last forever, but the terms of your D (if it gets to that) will.

I'm a little confused about the process there - you said your H won't withdraw the separation paperwork, but that you decided to stop the process? What are you able to stop on your own? Just not taking the money?

Why does your H visit some weekends? Is it to see you, or is there another reason he needs to be there? Since DB, has your H ever said he wants to work on the M?

I think it's great to have hope, but it sounds to me like you have a lot of expectations attached to that hope. If I am being honest, I'm not sure it's possible to have hope without expectations. I have finally dropped my expectations, but I also have no hope anymore. Before that, I had hope, and would be disappointed when my hopes were dashed, which tells me I had expectations, too.

Maybe a vet will stop in and explain how one can untangle the two.

Is it necessary for you to move to H's town and take the new job? Can you stay where you are, or find another job elsewhere? If your H disappeared off the face of the earth, what would you do? I am worried that you have a lot of expectations of what might happen if you move nearer to your H. Do you think it's possible that being closer to him (and OW) might make things worse?

So, Lou, tell us what you are doing for you!! What's good in your life right now?

Hi Melissa
thanks for the support.. I feel I am focusing too much on him.. I know it but the next few life changing steps are really tied up with him.. selling the house, moving, getting a new apartment for me ( Germans do not like to rent to foreignors and I can't read the contracts.. he said he will do all that)

You need to be separated 12 months here to be divorced. If both people agree then nothing formal has to be done. H made a formal statement, I went to lawyer she went into overdrive on my financial rights. He pays the mortgage here.. I don't need the other 500 to 900 euros a month he might need to pay
and pursuing it makes his life difficult for no good reason. So I stopped it.
I talked to my IC and he said if it feels wrong then if probably is. My expectation is that I will be able to say at the end of this I took the moral high road in every interaction and I am proud of myself

I have to move. My school expected me to leave for the past 12 months so my position is not really tenable here.My new job suitz me much better and my support base is also better there and it pays better. I will be about 30 minutes from H 45 minutes from school. It is cheaper in his area. I am not concerned

about where the OW lives or what she thinks.

I guess there is hope and expectation. I don't know why he visits.. to talk he says.. the agreeing with him was agreeing the marriage was over. I wanted for a long time to discuss repair...something he didn't want to hear..now I have
agreed the marriage is over. He is less stressed. I made some comment about I had not realised what terrible wife and friend I had been.. he said that's not
true. I had not been fishing for compliments.. I really was surprised how many sins I had committed in his eyes.. then he says I wasn't teribble..
So I am aware of not focussing on him..and I try..
I work full time I run 3 nights and 1 morning each week...I see my IC..I see so e friends...I walk the dog.. I don't have time for much else..

I know I am a controller but if without a commitment from him to help clean up and pack up I can see me doing it alone becauxe no will remind him to do it...and that really doesn't work for me...Hence my need for a commitment of some days working here, cleaning up his tools, garages, deciding what to do with furniture...
I know I have some not useful ways of thinking my IC is working on.. I think
they tangle hope and expectation..I guess you are right Melissa..but without hope none of us would be here or ?
When we look for baby steps is that hope? My coach thought there were a number of positive baby steps..and I keep reminding myself this is a long process like the marathon I ran today.. well half marathon..if I am truthful..
but does that bring expectations that will get smacked down when I look for those baby steps?

So differentiating between hope and expectation... I agree t would be good to untangle.
While our lives are so intertwined it is hard to detach properly and while his messages are mixed it is also difficult. While he has not told anyone outside his work friendz it also increases hope and then too expectation.
Thanks for asking the question Melissa.. I am still far more confused and attached than you and it does not do me much good.

As to what is good

quite truthfully nothing.

I have lost too much weight so look haggard. One olleague asked me did I have cancer?
I have to rehome my pup.. no places to rent will allow pets
work is stressful buzy and my colleagues are stressed unhappy and leaving
I am alone in a place where I barely communicate
I have not told my family because I do hope it will not be necessary
His sister, who I thought was my friend also has abandoned me and has stopped answering my calls.
I have to leave a house and garden I love..
Spring is here and it makes me sad not happy
I can spend all weekend alone unless I go running..
My love language is affirmation and physical affection.. particularly the day to day kind, not necessarilt sex but hugs, cuddles...so none of that happens at all
I have a running injury but have to run to stay sane.
What is good?
Well this weekend I parked outside a hospice for terminally ill people ..I guess things could be worse

I am so rubbish at this detaching stuff.. I understand it, I know what to do, mentally I tell myself and then emotionally.. nope not working..

I spend way too much time in my mind making up scenarios about what is happening or why. Then I can make myself happy or miserable depending on the thoughts I have created. I know it is wrong and makes no sense, that it is not helping me in any way but thoughts are hard to stop.. even running I can still think.

I think I understand he wants this separation. I understand he is seeing someone else but I don't think I believe it.. does that make sense..

It is difficult because I see him so rarely.. once every 3 weeks or 4. Too much to forget him but not enough to make sure I understand he means what he says.
He seems so much like he always was lately.. calmer, more friendly, willing to discuss..it is hard to remind myself of the reality, especially when I so badly do not want it to be that way.

I keep texts to a minimum and emails. I used to tell about some of the things I was doing but have stopped that.. He works long hours and often is away on business trips so it is difficult to find a night to speak on the phone although he said he would. He commented on how much I am out.. which is true but generally it is slushing through mud trying to keep up with the fast runners.

so this lack of contact allows me the time to make up things..like he is changing his mind.. then when he obviously hasn't then I am devasted... all the while knowing I did thiz to myself...
I am trying hard to stop thinking about him, keep busy and yet..it does not work so well

How have other people managed to detach...and stay that way...

Go have fun in some place different than your home, lou. You may be thinking of your spouse, but at least you are not in the same pickling solution. See if you can turn your mind to the fun thing you are at. Luke

Hi Luke

I have noticed when I am away from here I am better. I am hoping when I move in summer it will be even better.
I am surprised how much of a mind game it is.. and what hard work.

To stop thoughts, especially the ones where I think about not being in this situation and then almost convincing myzelf it is not happening.

Some dayz I don't feel normal anymore.

Denverz thread

I was recommended to read Denvers thread but some how I lost it...can anyone help me fi d the link again.. please

I am so going around..and around...and stuck

I think hey you are doing great, look how you are positive and then some stupid thing happens and I fall back and I know I am not detached.

Intellectually I know, focus on my life Do the things I want to do. Make choices for me.
I see my WH so rarely it gets hard to remember he has changed how he feels about me and that he is having an affair and wants a divorce. Somehow I forget, start to feel positive about life then there will be a text or an email or some lie will surface and I realise I was feeling positive because I had forgotten, not that I had detached!

He is on a business trip he said. He had his phone off... maybe he is avoiding her I thought.. what a fool I am to even care.. seems like it is more likely they are on holiday together..or am I making that up too to make myself miserable.
We are supposed to be organising to sell the house, he leaves for the best part of 2 weeks with nothing organised.
It is hard for me to detach when at times I feel hopeful. He seems positive or friendly..I know if I am caring what he is feeling I have not detached at all.

I have given myself a time line of one year before I make permanent decisions for me. This could be a bad idea.Maybe more stress than I need but if I just surrender now then I will always live with the doubt. Could the relationship be saved.
Should I care? Does he care? Seems not to.. does that change who knows..
Seems like most people write off a marriage when it is in this shape.. Can't say I blame them..

One thing I have remembered is that some of the things he does that affect me are things he has always done. He is not a big replier to emails. Until the last few weeks I have been working myself into a fit because he is so distant and does not reply.... but that is normal him, not walkaway him...
I do have alife before I am told to GAL .. I have no time or energy for more...after work, sports, hobbies, some friends...
I want to detach so I don't feel so vunerable to his actions. Is it self talk? I hate being always on the edge of tears or panic...or need ing to ru 10 ks to calm myself down...
advice for the self talk, for the WAH that is so rarely around...

lou - can you at least get out of the house? See something - anything - different? Fresh air? Luke

Hi Luke

you are right.. I do get out..problem is I speak the language so badly I have literally zpent the whole weekend with the dog talking to not one human!

. My running group helpz but I am injured at the moment. Get to talk to physio once a week.
Apart from school whi h is lots of talking I am pretty much alone..really sux..

so the dog is crazy to get out so I will walk him I the fields. ?..
thanks for following up with me...

Lou - if you prefer, I can write in German, French or Scandinavian, possibly helping you get a bit more connected there (language practice...)

Check out meetup - it may have something -

Luke

Another idea - take a language class there! My W took Swedish here and met a bunch of people. L

Hi Luke

I have taken courses... that was whiile I was happily married or thought I was..
Please.. no more German eek... had to take a notice I found in my letter box to a friend today who gave it to her daughter who took it to a friend to find out the message is to turn off the photovoltaic power for the week. But I have no clue how to do that.. and such a fuss to find out I did not know what to do...
When do you go shopping?
What is meet up?
My son met a Swedish girl while in Panama... she is moving to the Solomon Islands later this year to be with him...weird...

I made myself go out today... met a friend walked the dog.. It was good advice... need to do that more often..

Luke
ist das moeglich das wir kann in Deutsch hier reden? Ist das erlaubt?
Loualea

Hallo Lou,

Keine Ahnung, ob das okay ist. Als wir in Deutschland wohnten, haben wir viel gereist - die BRD hat ja viel zu bieten. Dieses Weekkend Ticket, z.B., mit der Bahn ist preiswert - kann ich empfehlen.

Der gruene Michelin Reisefuehrer Deutschland gibt eine gute Uebersicht, was alles zu sehen ist.

Also, if you are anywhere near the edges of Germany, it is easy to go to the neighboring countries. There is lots to see there -

You might also look for Vereine in your town - there may well be something that interests you -

Meetup.com is a website, specialized in arranging group get-togethers for people that are interested in something. I go to a drumming meetup, for instance, when in the US.

I am not sure if you want or do not want Deutsch - please let me know.

Luke

Hi Luke
probably should not do Deutsch...leaves others out of the conversation...

How was the weekend.. I stayed busy and out of the house.. helps.. a bit..
thanks

Hi Lou,

Agreed re Deutsch -

Glad to hear you are staying busy. Nothing like a dog to get you out regularly ... I don't know where you walk him/her, but it is supposed to be good to be in nature vs. an urban environment.

We had an unusually warm weekend here, so ate lunch out in the garden yesterday, where the girls had been busy (my secretly planted tulips are coming up - I hope they don't cover them up). I went for a long run and then took d16's band to a gig they had, this time at a very Swedish local history/tradition/interest club, featuring lots of sugary baked things.

Have you had a chance to look at meetup?

L.

Hi
meetup is having some problems with spam and being blackmailed..
I will get back to them when they are functioning again. ?

beautiful here too..we walk in tbe fields...
warm here also. There will be talk of drought next...

find Spring hard to take though.. last year we both were congratulating ourselves on what we had achieved... and rightly so it looked vreat our garden. Then I discover he hates it and it was just me pushing all the time...
but he made the lists...
makes me sad and confused and lonely.. I miss my friend.

Another weekend, another stress

so my H is coming to stay again this weekend. I have not spoken with him for 2 weeks. It was making me tired to text and wait for a reply.It is easier to not bother.
He has been away for business as well. I suspect but am surprised how little I really care that he has included a holiday with the OW on this trip. What does annoy me is that he told me that was not possible.

He continues to give mixed messages.. divorce definitely divorce may be later, share a house, find your own apartment, He is easier since I have stopped disagreeing. He wanted to be separated , we were and are. I stopped him when he started talking about me insisting on trying with the marriage ( that was 3 months ago) I said I value myself much more that .. to want to be with someone who is not interested in me. I think he was surprised but I meant it.

We have a lot to do together selling, packing, cleaning up.. but I am unsure why he comes here...I feel sad for him, he said he does not make his jokes anymore they were always corny but very much him.
This week I will be asking him to leave earlier.. I have a run planned..
Not sure if this is detached..I am still sad. If he wanted to begin discussions I would.
He will help me find my new apartment but I suspect he will like me to just go away so he is not reminded of how far he has fallen from his standards
He did say if we were separated then he is not having an affair. I reminded him we were married when he began to be with some one else... it will be always be an affair. The rewriting history is just annoying.
So I am flat and lethargic..detached or depressed guess the result is the
same...

Hi Lou,

It sounds like he needs validating and space...

Do you feel like GAL is working for you?

Luke

I see that the meetup website is running again. Stuttgart, for example, had a few dozen groups listed, so I imagine you should be able to find something. One idea might be to go out while your H is around this weekend, not saying what you are doing or going.

Luke

Hi Luke
thanks for checking back.. I see him once per month..I like seeing him, I like being with him...going out.. guess it would be a big 180..
I will think about it.. GAL goes
I guess I am spending a lot of time running and exercising so I can run further...which is a major 180 for me.. and just made him angry...said I did not run with him but he didn't run?.?....ever.
I will check out meet up..
I keep thinking about it- he made up his mind and there is no discussion, no thinking about it.. very illogical for an engineer...H e also sticks to his decisions once they are made...
I don't understand...he would not dismiss an employee like this but a wife.. no problem..
when do you go shopping.? Wish my daughter was 16 again..even though we argued a lot at thT time those days out were fun and I worked hard to make sure I did not spoil it by being critical of her choices..

Hola Lou,

Running is good, a way to keep at least somewhat sane when you have stress... just being outside and in nature is good...

You could always run and then be with your H afterwards - your happiness is at least as important (especially to you!) as his... being an engineer (I am one) is no guarantee of logic...

Shopping with d16 is not clear now - she and I went for a walk yesterday, on one of those clear, clean, Swedish spring days here, and I asked when we should go. She said it wasn't necessary, as she has enough clothes already, it would spoil her... I said that I could use some clothes too (shirts please!) but she thought I have enough already... not sure how to repackage this and make it happen. I think I have one more chance to sell the idea.

Luke

Hola Luke
Any advice on Sandi's rules

I agree I am better after I run.. more in control. So I worked out today he has just had a holiday away with the OW. Seems to be tacked onto a business trip. Something he would never do for me ever..yep I am hurt and annoyed..and he lied about it. Why still lie to me when he has almost dismissed me from his life.. I don't get it.
So how do I handle this weekend.. no R talk, no future talk, I will not ask questions about his holiday, no discussing the marriage What do we talk about?

I miss the closeness.but no following around, no looking for any affection..

I guess asking his feelings is R talk..he has a lot of trouble discussing his feelings...even in good times.

I am clueless really..

What a shame about the shopping.. My daughter would not have ever said no..I think even now she would jump at the chance to spend my money.. and spend time with me.. of course.
Hope she changes her mind..

Lou -

I'd go out to do something fun, and invite him along; getting out of the house may do you both good. Have you read DR or DB?

If he doesn't want to come, you can still have fun. Lots of good movies out just now - The Past was very good, as was Dallas Buyer's Club.

Do you have a female friend there that you can do something with?

It is important that you be attractive/happy when he is around - make him realize what he is missing!

Luke

Luke
I really try..to be more attractive, not cry.. though that is hard..I hate that I cry..

This part of Germany is quiet.One 1 theatre 30 minutes away.

One of the things I haven't done is make a lot of new friends here.
Bad mistake.. my H was my best friend we spent our free time together..
He is driving 5 hours to get here.. he doesn't say why.. I think to organise selling the house..but it seems rude to go out..if it was more regular I would go out.

So I need to be disinterested in his life..in his recent holiday..
His first without me in 15 years...blah.. I should not have thought of that.

thanks for following up Luke.. I hate this useless out of control feeling..

Any Vereine near by? Wanderwege? How about biking? More radius of action! Do you have your own car? See if you can get more control of what is going on... think and use the tools you have.

You know, at some point your sadness will probably have some anger added to it. Maybe it will help to focus more on the anger and not the sadness, especially given your H's behavior.

Luke

HI Luke

Good advice.. anger would be easier I think..
I have a wandern trip planned in June..probably alone... good for the soul..above the Koenig See.

Weekends are the trick.. all of them, when he is here I am tense, when he is not I am lonely.. I know it is not about him..but seems to be.

Once the house is sold and I have moved I think I will better get myself a better life.. at the moment I know this is a temporary time and place..and hard to motivate my self..

So HELP with Sandis rules
1. NO PURSUING,REASONING ETC.. is asking how he feels pursuing. He has had depression problems..

If I ACT AS IF he says I am acting as if nothing has happened.. and he finds that annoying

IF I DON'T START A CONVERSATION BUT WAIT FOR HIM there is no conversation then he is annoyed we haven't talked...I remind him he can talk I am ready to listen but I have always talked too much..he too little... this is a hard pattern to break.

WE LIVE APART PHONE CALLS USUALLY MADE BY ME he seems ok with the contatc usually, the coach said to keep them co sisntent regular and light and breezy...60 % of the time that works..is the calling pursuing?

I am good with not questioning about whereabouts these days or reassurance..
Just unsure how asking about feelings/emotions looks..

Any help or advice ..dealing witha WH with OW wno is only here once a month?

Hej Lou,

How is your H's English? I can recommend a book on CBT that I found very helpful, in English though.

If you like to talk, talk.

If something doesn't work, try something else. As if, for example, doesn't work for me, so I don't put any stress on it, and don't expect anything from it.

Rules are made to be broken - sehr undeutsch, I know - but a lot of this stuff is.

Pursuing is excessive contact seeking, or neediness showing. Regular, light, contact is not. Do you have a reason to call or is it neediness?

Don't miss the last boat on the Koenigsee - I once did and had to overnight in the hay in a barn there...

You can try being 'real' with him, but monitor the reaction and back off it there is a problem.

Don't ask about where he was or dig into his life, focus on you. Out of the house, out of your head and feelings, out. Detach.

Think of things to do when he is there, plan ahead. Stay busy. Order something to do from amazon.de or play a game. Cook if you like it - I became a good cook because of my marital problems!

L

Hi Luke
you are a rock thanks

Good question why do I call.. I like talking to him? We talked a lot..he did not always talk about nothing but when there was something he wanted to talk about he could be eloquent. His English is native level.. lived me for 14 plus years.. had to improve.
When he first moved away for work we talked twice a day every day.. I miss it, a lot. Is it neediness, hmm maybe..I still find myself anticipating his calls... and I say to myself I am detached..hardly. The feelings thing grabs me every time...

It will be a tough trip to the Koenig See now you have reminded me.. It was our first trip as a couple.. we had to run down to catch the last boat from the Gotzen Alm. I love that area but maybe because I really got to know him there...I have never hiked without him.. talk about a 180!!!

What do you mean by being real? Honest - acting as if he does not treat me like a leper? Talking to him as we used to.

I cooked one time he was here... he said I was acting like nothing was wrong. we went out for dinner another time ,he said I gave him no time to talk.. but then he didn't talk. as I have no money I will be cooking this time...

The closer it gets to him being here the worse i feel.. but he has to come to sign papers to sell the house and do garden maintenance.. it is too much for me alone..

seems like you have seen a lot of Germany..It is a great place to live.

HI Lou,

I've lived in Munich and Stuttgart, and work there quite a bit still.

Do you know that he is coming with papers or is it just a fear?

You need to think about things beyond him, outside, positive things, fun activities, GAL.

Real means saying what do we do now, that you feel hurt, and maybe ask how he feels, but that is R talk and very dangerous. I bet he is feeling lost and hurting too, so maybe some defusing somehow of this will help. Please read other people's threads and posts for more ideas (I am no expert!).

Make him help with cooking?

L

I am waiting for him to arrive
it has been a month
he has had a holiday with the OW.. I am assuming
I used to think the past few months that he drove 5 hours to badger me into accepting a separation.
I did that last time.. arguing was going nowhere so i agreed we were separated.. he felt happier because then he thinks he is not having an affair.. well on his mind.. no one else thinks that and it ill always be adultery.. but that is his problem not mine.

Just read MICs comments on choosing to be happy... I have been focusing on do not cry.. do not let him see you are miserable alone etc.. but maybe it is better to focus on positives.. I am happy.. and I am happy he will be here..
I can choose to be happy..
I also need to remember that he seems to be hurting and confused too..
but I will be happy. It will good to have him here.. we will have some time to relax.. Positives are better than negatives...I hope that works..
thanks mic

Yes, you have a choice, and though it is hard, can choose things that will possibly improve or at least lessen any hurt you are feeling. Good luck.

Luke

Note to self
NEVER go to a James Blunt concert with someone who is leaving you...NEVER

Cried through most of it...
Great performer just his lyrics.

Note to self
NEVER go to a James Blunt concert with someone who is leaving you...NEVER

Cried through most of it...
Great performer just his lyrics.

Hahahahaha, Lou one day and I promise you this...you are gonna read this comments and laugh like crazy....

you are so funny!

so I really blew it today
For some reason I could not stop the tears.. I was so angry with myself.. it was just as he was leaving so not a time to walk away..and I know he hates it, the crying..

Some of it was frustration.. trying to sell the house, keep it in good shape and he says see you in a month ...maybe...some of it was that the morning had been like it was before BD fixing some things on the computer, and then I realized he is leaving to go back to her-
He was friendly and easy to be with. The stress seems to be reducing. he kept saying that NOONE will control him so I am not sure if he meant me.. or her or the world..(way too much mind reading)
He is so anxious about being controlled. Then he talks about when he is in a better place for himself will he be able to think about anyone else.

Our conversations were pleasant and some were philosophical and a little relational.. though I tried to avoid that but this afternoon.. mess..
tears, sobs, more tears...The whole process of selling, finidng a new place though he is going to help with that...moving.. and mostly alone.. I was a mess.
so did not do light and breezy and friendly.. He said he had enjoyed the concert..so that was positive.. I hate my weakness to day..though there was no more divorce talk...but than again we both know nothing can happen with that until December..

Hola lou,

What is the deal with December? Has he said why he is leaving?

Luke

Hi Luke,

We need to be separated a year before the divorce can be started.
thats December. ?.I hope we have something else by then. I really don't want a divorce...
Loua

Hi lou,

In a way that is good news - you have time still.

What would you do to make your life better? Some friends seem in order, non? Let's put together a plan. It sounds like you are moving in any case - can you get to a place you like more? You have a chance to make something good here.

Luke

Hi Luke
A plan.. good idea

First to see this house then

. I am moving closer to him The new job is much better than this one so that is good. The question is how far away. He lives about 2 hours from my new work place..I can't expect him to do much for me with that time space.. I think half way is ok..
But then a long way from any friends I make at work.. tricky..
I will find a new sports verein..for running..locall

Not sure what else...
Certainly I am too much alone...which is bad for me..
Need to think some more...

HI Lou,

The too much alone part is what I would focus on - you will be happier and stronger and more attractive if you can improve that -

Is the place you will move to a bigger town, with something happening? I hear good things about intermediate size towns, like Leipzig and Chemnitz -

Luke

Hi Luke

Essen which is a town I like.. sadly nothing like Franconia...industrial rather than rural...
The challenge is I like beibg at home and being with people I care about..not really being out with groups making small talk.. I get really bored..
I know I have to push myself.. this weekend I will visit some friends..and restore the garden ...
My tulips are coming up to.. I love spring..

Glad the trip with your daughter is back on...
Loua

Hi Lou,

Yes, Franken is quiet and green. If it is Essen you are going to, then there should definitely be meetups nearby - see if there is something you like and check it out. Stockholm, my nearest big town, has dozens of meetups and there should be some people there that are sympathetic.

Yes, spring is great. My secretly planted tulips (I do this every year) are coming up too.

Gutes Wochenende -

Luke

Hi Luke
I understand the comments folks made about your German background...really.. They say anxiety but to me it sounds like a german engineer, trust me I know...
Not saying it the most relaxing way to live, not saying it is even a good way to live but it is pretty common around here..
The distance with my H is the hardest thing to understand.. He has made up his mind and it is done and there is NO discussion..

but you are right Essen will have more opportunities to meet folks..
sadly my H won't be part of my last Bavarian hike.. there is a group going and as he was the one who wanted to conqueror this challenge I said he was welcome...he said no.. which is probably better as it would have been stressy..

now working on doing EVERYTHING to make this house fit to be shown to people who might want to buy it..and doing it alone..
garden, cleaning, packing, the garage.. everything..

I don't think he was always this selfish..

Hola Lou,

Perhaps I should have said Pietist, patriarchal, and morose instead of German...

I think anger at your H is appropriate given that he expects you to do all the house stuff - is he doing something that makes up for this? You mentioned he is helping you find a place to live?

Do you know Essen already? There is lots of good bike touring just north of there. Duesseldorf has about two dozen meetup groups.

Luke

Hi Luke

Is he helping.. he looks at places I find and sayz they look O(.I asked him to look at place.. haven't heard back.
So no I think he iz just looking after him...
So today I bought some new clothes, cleaned, dusted, washed, took the things I could carry to the rubbish dump.. had the guy there make some rude comment I think.. the Frankish was too fast bought 17 bags of mulch. A young boy helped me load it in the car . I spread where I thought it should then spent 2 hours crying because I am doing this alone...and I texted him to ask about things and he could not be bothered to answer.

Dusseldorf has lots happening just have to get there..
Thanks Luke..

Salut Lou,

Well, to put it coarsely, my attitude would be er kann mich dann... as GvB would say... I think that is still in B-W though.

Is there something you have always wanted to do, just for you, something you maybe put off because of H? I would do it, affirm you.

How will money work out for you? I don't know how divorce law is in Germany.

Luke

Lou - are you okay? what is up? Luke

Hi Luke

Yes and thanks for asking..
Just trying to figuRE out us.. again.
He said he would come and look at apartments then sends a list of when he is free... Sunday afternoon in 2 weeks.. I think I will go alone..
I have asked for a definitive answer.. Is he helping or not.. simple question.. es ist fuer mir wurst...

Divorce law is interesting.. I get part of his pension, plus we take back what we brought to the marriage and then divide the rest..sux to be him.. My inheritance paid half the house..he forgets that I take ALL of that when we sell.. so I will have 3/4 from the house sale.
We could have one lawyer but I think if he is going to push it then I will be adversial..and my rechtsanwalt is something else.
Money wise I will be fine..

I hope it doesn't come to that... I am backing off more and more, giving more space just the one phone call each week..
He is here for 4 days in 2 weeks so I need to develop a plan not to cry..

How is it with you? When is the day out with your daughter.
And the I terview in NY?
I have 2 weeks holiday in April ..I think I hear the Alps calling
Hope all is good..
Do you find giving space helps the relationship.
L

Hallo Lou,

Yes, space is good. You might feel lonely sometimes, but the pressure is off, and some clarity may come. Go have fun!

Day out with d16 will be during Easter vacation. Interview for NYC job went okay, but someone else got the job (no problem - I wouldn't have wanted to move anyway - it was interesting to hear about the work in any case).

I am traveling from this weekend to the next, so will only occasionally be able to be online. Have a good vacation if we do not post before.

Luke

So I am generally in a better place and generally happy with everything except my marriage!
I have set boundaries for me..
he talks about how he is in a bad place.. actually is mor eopen about how he feels but much less open about what he does with his days..
I don't care or see any point in pursuing by questioning.. which was a big deal for me..
We have not had R talks but talks about relationships.. ie he was stating that asking questions about his day was controlling..he listened when I explained from my perspective it was caring and when he did not ask it felt like he did not care.

we talk a couple of times a week.. he works long days.. I do not ask how he spends his weekends.. my boundary.. i do not want to hear..

I am wondering how to deal with or not his accusations.. that I am trying to manipulate him.. he actually sees most of the world trying to manipulate him

so I ignored a few.. but he saw that as me agreeing that my request is manipulative..

The last manipulation on my part was in an email.. he is helping me find a new apartment.. we were trying to find mutualy convenient times..
My comment was I will say what I need he can say what he needs or wants or can do and then we can figure out what is possible as far as dates, times, places.. his reply was
" and u get what u want"...

I was going to leave it but I will not agree through silence that i am manipulative or controlling..

I said that felt unfair to me. my proposal was we listen to each other and find a place we are both happy with..

Is there other ways of wording this. I did not want to sound aggressive or accusatory..
I wanted to write HOW UNFAIR etc.. but did not
any other ways of wording this sort of comment

Morgen Lou,

I like how your talks are more honest, that is good. Not asking what he does is good too - it gives him space.

If he feels manipulated just by talking to you, perhaps you could ask him what sort of talking or relationship would not make him feel manipulated. To put it in engineering terms, what "interface between you" does he want?

For talking I would recommend what I learned at EE: ask for 100% of what you want 100% of the time, but be willing to negotiate the difference. Your H should do the same too. Ask him what he wants - he should state this, and then you meet somewhere in the middle.

U don't get what you want, you each get some of what you want. Your proposal was very good, basically the same as mine here.

I have a strong feeling that getting him to be open could be very useful for both of you. Maybe it would be useful to ask him how he wants to do this, heck, you could write it down beforehand, and then each person reads it out, this to avoid any possibility of him saying you are adjusting your tactics to get more.

HOW UNFAIR is not good, watch out for the feelings stuff until you have it under control and thoroughly processed. Your goal should be to define a goal or perhaps a set of alternatives, individually first, and then together, and work toward them. Expressing your feelings is good, I think, but at the right time and place.

This post is scattered - sorry - but hopefully somewhat useful - Luke

Can you identify what initially attracted him to you? If so, perhaps this is worth working on?

Hi Luke

good advice and I like the idea of asking what sort of talking should happen so he is not feeling manipulated.
I agree too with open but how to do that
He has never been really open..keeps things to himself...obviously brooding over them but never mentioning things until now.. and some of them were not rewriting and were real issues and should have been discussed but I did not realise they were a problem.

I suspect we re working at cross purpsoes.. he is trying to end our relationship.. I am trying to .. I was going to say save but more reinvent.. I knowpursuing will not work so the idea of space..
Big day Sunday.. together all day..let'S see how that works..

calm calm calm..no R talk

What attracted me to him. Good question because I hung on every word he said.I think questioned nothing..praised

My tulips were out today Luke and I thought of you.
Last year I planted a white garden but a stray yellow one must have got in there some where they are all pale lemon this year..
enjoy the Spring

I will think on the attraction idea.. I sure was not assertive or in control.. iwas happy to let him do all the control..

were you ever accused of controlling when you did not think you were?
My husband sees everything as controlling.. I agree I did but I work so hard not to now .. even a simple request is controlling..or a question.. that requires an answer.. could you be able to help me choose a:::---that was controlling!?He says he will do as he likes, take care of himself. I agree I dont want to control him..but asking is controlling and truly either answer is fine.. yes I will no I wonT..both are fine then I know if should I factor him in or not..
how do I avoid these accusations.
If I do not ask he will feel unappreciated.. maybe- I guess I should not mind read..if I ask how he feels about being left out he will say I am controlling..
any advice .. happily received..S

Hi Lou
I posted to you on Labug's thread about control. Let me know if it makes any sense.

Hey Lou my exw is a perfectionists. We had serious issues around that. For example when we painted our home she always chose the colors, even though I did the painting she never asked for my input. It would take her months to decide on a color, and complain that I had not painted when she never bought the paint or allow me to get it myself. Really frustrating. Another example, when we bought the home I have now 11 years ago we decided to buy Arbovites trees to plant in the back yard. I remember we had bought 6 at 1st. It was a Sunday afternoon and I needed to be in bed and get to work the next day. She asked me to place them were we would plant them. I knew it would take for ever and I wanted to get them into the ground. It was a hot day.

Instead she went inside to get a ruler.... She measure them equal spacing. Me being the impatient person that I am wanted to drill the ruler into my veins

So we didn't communicate well and we didn't learn each others short comings. A perfectionist can be very controlling person in a R. It may be a good quality to have in ones profession but it kills a R.

So pay attention to what you say, do, and any other subliminal message.

Hi Rick
It took a while to get back here.. I wasn't quite such a perfectionist more an organiser.. finding things to do...

I sure don't bother with that now

My H was here for the whole weekend it was unpleasant.. there was this horible tension and I realised I have ended up feeling like I should be apologising..
And he is the one having the affair and pulling my life apart nor the other way around.
I want to be more assertive but it comes out argumentative..
I ended up leaving him alone as he sat flicking around on his phone. I had explained I looked forward to his company after being alone here so much.. he basically ignored me so I went upstairs to my computer.. said if he felt like company he should call when he is finished on his phone..he did after about 30 minutes.."are you going to stay up there all night?"

I am tired of his abruptness.. his low level... I am in a bad mood...
He does not want to attempt any reconciliation yet has not told his family..
I feel like he does not even like me.. I want to ask and then say well go away ans stay away... guess that is not DB approach

So help on non contact but getting WH assistance???
I am looking to have as little contact as possible at the moment because it is not doing me any good and is giving the message I will always be here no matter what.. and that is not the case..

To be clear we have minimal contact .. telephone once or twice a week..he visits once every 3rd or 4th weekend..

but I need the help of my WH...

The house we are trying to sell, that I live in,needs continued garden maintenance now summer is here..keeping it in a condition that viewers can see is a lot of work and I do not see why I am being left to do it alone..while he has all the free time he says he needs..
I need to visit the new area where he lives and I need help with the language, transport etc.Since the decision to sell and move was a result of his new job and the need to do it alone is a result of his new affair..I feel like he can help out...

So how do I get him to meet his responsibility for the house and also to help me with the move and not be a pursuer..to maintain that distance..

I also need to not sound in any way controlling or pursuing or managing or any other synonym you can think of..

I thought to create a calendar with what is needed when - on which weekends, and ask him to tell me which days he will be able to be here to work and which days he will be able to help in the new town.

Sounds controlling to me even as I write.. is there another way to meet my need to get help and not be a controlling W?????

Loua - I'd state the problem, as you see it, but no part of the solution, in any way, and then ask for his help. Tell him you don't want to control or manage him, but that he is also responsible for the house, so what do you do? Tell him, if necessary, that selling and moving was related to HIS job (not to blame, just as a fact) and so could he please help with this...

If there is some part of morality or fairness that might work, perhaps that could be thrown in. Perhaps you could post how you think this talk would go first, before having it.

No calendar or organization - too German (sorry...) and controlling, imo.

Luke

Hi Luke

maybe I need to leave this place.. calendar seemed like such a good idea.. maybe the Germanness is seeping into my pores. I agree sounds controlling.. I am a controller thought I was recovering!!!
I will work on my email. might run it by you
It won't be a talk.. He can not make a decision with out thinking and consulting his diaries.. so I do need to give him that space..

Out to work in the garden.. my tulips are great this year..
I will mull it over and get back..
How are you doing with mean .. avoiding it ignoring it???

Hola Lou,

We are all invited to a friend's place for lunch. W okay again, at least on the outside. Had nice walk with s20 last night.

You might consider Holland instead of Germany. At least they leave their windows open at night, instead of the crazy lockdown rolladen.

Luke

Hi Luke
I don't plan on any contact email until later

will appreciate your thoughts when you can get to it

My goal is not to confront or make him feel guilty..

Hi H

Have spent most of the weekend staying on top of the garden and the house.( I want to add while you have been having a lovely long weekend with another W and seeing your family and making your sister cry.. but i wont) There sure is a lot to do here continually..
There is also still a lot to do with the moving and setting up my new place.
These things I can not do alone and I do not think it is fair to expect me to..

I can not keep everything in the house as it should be so people can view it alone.
I can not keep the garden in any sort of order.

I can not manage to pack and move and organise the new apartment alone.

There are several weekends coming up that I have plans for, some are up there in NRW , some are here .

Where do you see yourself in all this?

These dates I am committed to :

17th and 18th This is the weekend you said you could drive me to G I need to be there Saturday morning for a short while and also Sunday morning.. with a pick from D about 12.00 on Sunday..

25th I am booked here

31is E 's Graduation here...Did you decide what you are doing?

7th and 8th and 14th and 15th..I am booked..

rest of the month.. no fixed plans.

Any thoughts on when you will be here?
Loua

Remember he is an engineer.. short sentences no emotions..

I am trying for independent as possible but I will not do this alone.. that is not about independence that is about being fair..

thoughts rewrites criticisms

will get back to you later - sorry - off to party -

Luke

Lou - I'd keep it even shorter. He may consider your new apartment your problem, as well as moving your stuff also. Has he taken his stuff already?

Something like "I'd like us to prepare and sell the house together. This means.... xyz. What do you think (I think it is good to ask him)? Can we make a plan to do this?"

I wouldn't give all your dates yet, it seems too organized and vorgreifend (it feels like you are constraining, directing, setting the tone...).

Perhaps you can ask him to lead this (common) project?

Luke

Hi Luke

yes I can see it sounds too controlling..
No he hasn't moved his stuff..His apartment was all ready functioning when he decided that it was his home so there is a tonne of stuff here..that belongs to him..

He leaves his clothes here, pajamas under his pillow, house shoes on the step....
I like the asking.. I am used to taking control.. that is why I asked for help

OK back to redrafting..
thanks
Loua

Originally Posted By: loualea

Question

I have a specific question from a members psot but it is about my situation and not one for the thread the comment was made it... does that make sense??

I wanted to ask Sandi2 about question about conflict avoidance...
I was interested in her thought..
How do i do that???

Loualea

Probably best to post this on your own thread and not someone elses.

Conflict Avoidance is very common in LBS's
I am sure that most of us are guilty of this,
probably something to work on in the future if you are
to ever have a relationship again.

Originally Posted By: psychology today, Liane Davey, Ph.D.

Tips for the Conflict Avoidant

If you really struggle to embrace conflict, try these quick tips.

Express your contrary opinion as an �and.�
It�s not necessary for someone else to be wrong for you to be right. �I hear that you think we need to leave room in the budget for a customer event AND I�m concerned that we need that money for employee training. What are our options?� More on my "Two Truths" method here.
Use hypotheticals.
If you don�t feel comfortable being assertive, try asking your teammates to imagine a different scenario. �I hear your concern about getting the right sales people to pull off this campaign. If we could get the right people�what could the campaign look like?
Talk about the impact of actions.
Rather than disagreeing with the plan, help your teammates think through the consequences by asking good open-ended questions about the impact. �Ok, we�re contemplating launching this product to only our U.S. customers. How is that going to land with our two big customers in Latin America?�
Ask about the underlying issue. If you disagree with a proposed action, start with discussion by trying to understand the rationale. If you understand the reason for the action, you might be able to find another way to accomplish the same goal. �I�m surprised you suggested we release the sales figures to the whole team. What is your goal in doing that?�

Thanks Cadet
I knew it was the wrong place..
We were and are confict avoiders. Seems quite unhealthy to me and leads to lots of problems..
He is stil, avoiding lots of issues.. doesnt even want to say out loud we are separated
I see it is a problem but that is first of all me and also the conversation is going to end up being a relationship one..which it really is not the right time for

I would feel like I knew what was going on if he raised the issues that are obviously bothering him..lots of mind reading happening on my end which is not useful..I could maybe do something right if I knew what the issue was..
Or at least know what I am deciding not to do..
But again all about what I want..

Is there anyway to address this issue..without being a control freak...

Lou - if you (or my W) said you are open to listening and will not criticize or control, then perhaps your H would open up a bit. I think you have to just listen, validate, not discuss. He has feelings too, and they need to be said and expressed, without any pushback from you.

Luke

Hi Luke

I agree and it is an ugly way to relate..
I am working that for me..trying really hard..

as to expressing feelings well he did not.. Not until it became anger and then I am really bad with anger..it makes me scared and uncomfortable and I try to fix it.. which then comes across as controlling. I will stop discussions that become contentious because I had a lot of trouble dealing with the anger..

he will admit.. "maybe I did not tell you, or maybe I did not say"..some of the issues I can not remember and do know if he had said.. in a calm and reasoned way.. this is a problem for me, it makes me really unhappy, can we do something else.. then I would have done it..
half the issue was he never said..I was supposed to guess..I did not validate because he did not express any emotion....

Now I am going back and thinking well was the one eye browed raised for a moment a sign of a big problem??? or because he was quiet he was unhappy..

If I asked he said it was fine..
I made plans, holidays etc.. I would ask clearly is this OK? he would say yes..
I can see now I took over, I thought he was OK with that, He was busy. I thought organising was helping.. it wasn't it was adding pressure.. but how was I supposed to guess that???

If he had been clear..then I would have stopped.. I do not HAVE to have my own way.. My life is much calmer if someone else is taking charge.. I am happy to follow- really but when there is NO plan.. I find that hard to manage and I try to fill the gap.. and he let me..
I know now it was wrong.. but how to repair..

so how do I do that Luke. How do I listen when he does not talk..

Say I would like to hear how things are for you?
that is R talk maybe..

How are you feeling? Fine.. end of talk..

This is a stressful time..trying to validate
answer
Of course it is what do you think!

This is the man who sat opposite me as I tried to manage hysterical sobs.. not so successfully. I asked him how he thought I felt . he answered "Not well"
I asked what he would say I German . maybe it is a translation thing.. no Not well did it he thought.

I will own my part.. but he sure did not help..

I think your situation is different..or is it.. Did you keep it inside..
For the people on the other side that sure does not help us to try and reach you.. I felt so clueless sometimes..

hope this isn't a rant.. This topic has been on my mind today..How could I have been different when i didn't know that the way I was did not work..

We can all only do the best we can..I was doing that.. it just wasn't good enough..and I didn't know until, like a driver on an unfinished Italian autobahn, you don't know until you drive off the edge..

Hi Lou,

Sorry to have been offline - have not been too happy recently -

When he is with you, could you maybe cook together? He makes one dish, you another? How about trying something new food-wise, where you both cook?

Or watch TV together? Or Deutschlandfunk or BBC?

Fill the void between you with something - tell him about your day, without focusing on your feelings... do you have GAL activities? I've found that very helpful, both for something you to do and for material to tell about.

I have problems with anger too, but understand that it is a feeling in the other person, and it does not have to reach you. And anger is good somewhere - it eases the feelings of the other person - and is giving you information - angry about what? You may find it useful to write down the words (and report them here, if you like).

Not sure how to help -

I am off to the US in two days - and will be online sporadically from there.

Yes, I keep a lot inside, but share with friends too (though I really do not want to burden or impose on them). I am practiced at being alone and hiding feelings -

Do you have others to share feelings with? it is very helpful -

Luke

Hi Like
I was worried about you.. good to have you back..
Is there anything I can do to help

You sound not happy.. you live in a tough situation and even if everything was perfect a 16 year old can be tricky..

I agree next time he is here we need to do something together..
We used to like cooking.. good tip

So what goes on inside your head when it is not right but you don't say..
or is that too difficult to talk about..
How can someone who wants to help you actually create the environment where you can be helped..
One problem is here i don't have people to share with.. work colleagues.. Not a good choice..
Family nope and his sister has absolutely cut me out..

Friends-- all work colleagues..
sad circumstances..

enjoy the US..

I would be interested in what would have made it easier for you to talk
longer silences?
more validation--I know my problem was when a sad though was expressed I quickly tried to fix it.. not useful.
and I talk too much..

stay safe..
loua

Hi Lou,

Sometimes I think happiness is one's attitude, for example, though my w and d16 left unexpectedly yesterday, I had a friend call and we went running/riding together, and then I saw Die andere Heimat last night, something I'd been wanting to do.

My employer pays us to be healthy, and we can get bonus points for certain activities. I think that this month I will try the "keep a daily gratitude journal", as I understand it is good to do so.

(I should also tell you that my W used to call me Louis or Lou, way back, in her tender, loving, days. I have always liked the name).

You need to let your feelings out. When I went to EE I really did, surrounded by people who listened and cared and supported me. I can remember stabbing my notebook (everyone gets one) with my pen, I was so angry, so hurt, so trespassed upon. If you can go to there or to a similar place, I would highly recommend it.

I also learned the value of a journal, a receptacle for my pain, always waiting.

Write, draw, paint, learn boxing, do yoga, get outside.

Gentleness and not attacking and giving, though not to excess (I am glad when my W brings me a cup of tea, for example, though even that has been a while), would help. My W is quick to anger, quick to attack, judgmental, all of which turn me off fast. I want respect and not scorn or rejection. Look at yourself - are you any of these? What did your H love about you when you first met? Have you lost adventure and novelty?

Does your husband like to walk? Spaziergaenge can be quite good at healing...

Read your husband a book - W and I read Watership Down to each other, a long time ago, wonderful.

Take care - I will be online sporadically for this month - Luke

Sometimes my GAL stuff feels like I am avoiding the pain, filling the void, but even if it is this, I think it is important to still do it. Invite your husband, and if he doesn't want to go, go anyway.

I think you will feel better for it.

It is important to not over do this, so making it look like you are avoiding him, but why not have fun sometimes, and maybe even with your husband?

How about running with someone? Even if it is just small talk, you are still with people and talking, and maybe you will get faster

-

Luke

Hi Luke

I journal,oh do I journal..and I do not see him so much.. maybe once every 3 or 4 weeks.so not many chances to interact tnough he does call so etimes duri g the week
When he is here he seems to work at not having fun... it is a chore to be here. He won't walk with me, we used to walk all the time..
I wonder if being so clingy and needy and controlling in the beginning made things worse.
I wonder so many things..
I am a fixer.. if you are sad I try to make you better even if you might just want to be sad..I am not mean..I am a perfectionist but have kept that under control.
I thought my H could do no wrong.. really... smart, moral, sensitive, kind, thoughtful..actually I still do..hard to accept he is doing what he is doing..
I was such a fan..sickening..I think what he liked was that I just about worshipped him,I never questioned.. he was always right. One comment last year I made about his choice of new job really upset him..prbably the only criticism I made of him in 14 years... truly I loved him totally.
I have not validated though.. tried to fix..not validate.
I run with local verein...best thing I ever did.German has improved fitness has improved..
Gratitude journal sounds like it is something I could do..and as my tulips bloomed this year I thought of your secret ones.. made me smile..
Seeing H Saturday.. had to really beg for help with negotiating for a kitchen.. you know how German places never have kitchens and I don't know anyone else.and to say 2 days before he doesn't feel like it..so I get a few hours..scraps.. just scraps
Thanks for the positive thoughts Luke..
What was that movie about ?is it a clasic?
Loua

Die andere Heimat is a recreation of village life in the 1840s, set in the same village as the first Heimat series. It leads up to the 1848 revolution. I don't know how good your German is, but what they speak is quite antiquated sounding, and a good head stretch.

The weather in Sweden turned cold again, frost at night, 10 during the day. Tulips are still bravely up, though the secret ones have not opened yet. I will ask d16 to send me pictures (some previous secret tulips are gorgeously tall, purple, proud, and the new secret ones should be flames hopefully).

What color are yours? Glad you can smile a bit. In Essen you will be near Holland - great biking there and tulips! Do you run races? They are fun - (I have a half marathon on Sunday - will be interesting with jet lag...).

Yes, see if you can do the gratitude journal, one thing you are thankful for each day, no repeats allowed!

Luke

Hi Lou, I just read your last several pages.

What you did in the past is in the past. Yes, we do the best we can. When we know better, we do better. But one true thing is, we can't change what's past, we can't fix it.

We can only choose to be different from this day forward and take it minute by minute, day by day.

what a weekend this has been..

I am in a horrible place.. I see the sense of letting go..part of me even wants to if it means I don't have to feel this way anymore but the reality of such a horrible aloneness without my H...I can see I have too much of me invested in us.. all really and I am not ready to be so alone..

.I think I am damaging myself..

It was so weird today..I had asked if he could help with the contract for my new place and the kitchen planning. I won't do that any more with any expectations. he said last Wednesday it didn't really suit.. he had made an appointment.
he said today it felt like pressure.

I repeated I really was relying on him and he said OK at 9.
He turned up at 9 said the contract was fine..
He is the engineer. I can not work in 3D at all.. he said I was acting like I couldn't do it! the measuring and planning. I agreed I was pretty hopeless but it wasn't an act.. he had always done this sort of job. So he helped with the planning and was OK.
He came on the tour again with the owner and listened to the technical stuff.. thank goodness.

We then did not have time to go to a shop to look for kitchens as he had to head back..but we sat in his car for an hour and the conversation was odd.. I can't judge, is it WAS or is it depression.

I validated as best I could when I could understand him.
Issues
This one comes up frequently:
I did not follow his advice and live in the city close to my work. I explained i did value his advice but also needed to be in nature and wanted to live in an area that was safe. He said i had accused him of trying to make me live in an area where I would get mugged ?? because I said one of the suburbs he mentioned was not so pleasant..
Also this one
I could stay in this place where I live now did not have to move to a place I thought was horrible! ( 12 months sine I mentioned the new region is horrible.

Money.. he said he can't save any money. He is going to a lawyer to see what he should be doing about money.(I think)
I shared with him what I had been told and what it would cost him. Which is twice what he currently contributes. he said well if that is what has to be paid he will pay it. I had to explain the system again..I have to ask for it and I am not going to..It made no sense.. he was feeling like he had no money and then was chasing a process where he would need to pay more .

He suggested I had secrets from my lawyer. I said just info I wanted to tell him face to face so there was not any misunderstanding.. We need a 2 person to sign account when we sell the house if he is going to pursue divorce. he "did not see why that was necessary, why do I listen to her"... what else did I know.. then i had to tell him here in Germany the split is not 50-50..( which is why I wanted to do this one face to face) that also did not make him happy.. then he said well as long a it was finally organised even if he had nothing he would be happy ???

He wants to divide our savings which is fine with me but I have not understood the process he was proposing.He has explained it a few times but always with such an aggressive tone that I know I can not listen properly.. I am so bad with anger..

He accused me of always going around and around on the same topics.. then he came back to the "leaving Australia topic" hey but I validated though it sure wasn't my first thought..and the moving topic and the town one..

he said it is not useful when he visits if we go to a concert or anything normal.. acting like there is nothing wrong?

I validated the silences and some of the comments and it seems that at the base is he feels if we are divorced and totally separated then there will not be any more pressure.. then we can start to look at our relationship.. confused
actually he said that in those words..He is under a lot of pressure
maybe here I made a mistake but I said I did not feel that topic was really over. We had never discussed really, never explored the consequences of divorce.. he said well what is wrong with it?
My mind reading guess is the affair eats at him, people don't approve, it is obvious in parts of the company so I hear..

It did not feel like the time or place for that conversation so I said obviously for me to understand what is happening to me we need to talk more...
He then became irritated because I am getting a new kitchen.( I did not say because you are insisting on me having a new apartment).

he was irritated that we have a telephone tariff where I can call Australia.. it cost 4 euros a month extra !

he was very irritated that I have a friend who is a lawyer.

he was irritated that the email bullying was mentioned.. actually by him. he said he did not send the emails.. I said " you brought that woman into my life so you have some responsibilities there.)

Last harvest we had made Rumtopf... fruits in spirits and sugar.. It is ready to eat now. I had bought a fancy new pot and made the rumtopf.. for him,I don't eat it.. so I thought I could take it up.. he said " Now I am getting all the old rubbish!"
I said I thought it was something you'd like so please leave it in the car..he did. I am home and just threw it out!

Basically everything irritated him.
I said that this obvious tension between us make sit very difficult to make plans and organise for all the things we HAVE to do.. like moving.. Was there a way to help it? he said when everything is organised meaning money, divorce then he will feel better..

so we might get the money done but my lawyer has a plan to drag the divorce out for years...and I have asked her o put it into action when she needs to..
bad plan??

I guess I really want him to hear me, to talk about things without everything being black. To acknowledge that not every moment I lived with him was about making him feel bad and hurting him and deceiving him..That we did not live with tension and bad feeling all those years..that sometimes it was pleasant..maybe even once or twice quite wonderful.

could I be waiting a long time? Do I tell him that is what I need to move on because I that thought really keeps me stuck.

thanks labug
I know that I try to live it but it is defining my life..I am really stuck because he is really stuck and the evil loua who destroyed his life is in every conversation and I don't even recognise this person.. when did she live with us??

Luk

Yes I have a race on the 18th just a 10 I am recovering from a piriformis injury.. Running keeps me sane Luje.. the more it hurts the better.. good luck with the half.. what a way to get rid of jet lag..
The tulips are white.. beautiful ( 4 different sizes) and the schwerte lillies are yellow and amazing. I am going to hate leaving this garden for an apartment.
Found a place on the edge of the Saurland.. very rural.. good for my soul.
My German is Ok usually. I hunt for high level vocabulary but it is functional. Tried a new laufgruppe freitag abend in the new area.. and they were very open and friendly.. Maybe we will end up at the same race some day..
it has been a rough weekend

bit low on gratitude..
How about i did not flip the beamer today when I topped 200k??

Lou - it sounds like you need to detach more- for me realizing that my future might be without my wife and that I was responsible for my own happiness and could affect it was helpful - time also dulls the pain and you have only 7 months since BD - hang in there - work on your own happiness - later - Luke

Hi Luke
maybe detach in any way shape or form might be useful.
Just stuck with it.
I guess that I get contrasting messages..
Keep a friendly connection.. I find that connection thing hard to do and detach.. maybe I have the detachment thing wrong.

Gratitude
beautiful Franken tag, run with a friend , best pace ever !

Hi lou. I have been on here from time to time and noticed you were back more. I need to come back more often to read and keep myself on track.

It seems you and I are stuck in the same place and it seems a rather unhealthy place, at least for me.

I feel like I need the truth from h. Truth about Ow. Truth about his role in our problems. Acknowledgment that our entire relationship wasn't the pit of dispair he has made me to be and that I am not the spawn of the devil he tells everyone I am.

I have to learn to differentiate between want and need because I will never get this from h. Intellectually I know it shouldn't matter to me. My and your hs will do as they do. We need to learn to let go of needing anything from them and find what we want within ourselves.

I will let you know when I figure it out. Your GAL and gratitude journal should help. It is hard to be grateful and angry at the same time.

Hey Julie
it sure is..anger and gratitude
I found this article about detachment onthe Livestrong website..it described relationships .ike ours as toxic.. and said it is up to us to fix it..it was only yezterday but it struck such a chord.
I don't want a toxic relationship with anyone.. yuck..
My H has no clue.. he thinks he has all the answers.
and I am tried of , listening to his negativity..
I am sure I will cycle around to being sad again but not for long..
I really am a fine person.
He is the one with his reputation destroyed..
Not me..
I am glad we don't have children together. He would have been a horrible, cold distant father. But he recognised that himself
So sad man, confused man, fancy thinking he will organise a divorce and THEN talk about the relationship

I feel much stronger, less dependent..
Luke mentioned detaching.. it was an excellent suggestion. ?
hope things improve.. we have to do it ourselves. Those useless men we are married to certainly won't be doing anything anytime soon..
Gratitude fastest time for a kilometre ever..and it was a 10 k run..

Very cool with the 10k time, Lou, I am happy for you. My half marathon pace was 10% better than my target, so I am happy too, running is great.

Detaching for me was helped by NY wife's bad treatment of me -the message finally sunk in... repeated refusals to want to do anything together mean what they are when so consistent... it sounds like your h is still lost though, which he needs to work out himself. Focus on you - feel your strength and beauty and find your calm - my sister said to look at this as an opportunity... to be truly you...

There are surely other posts here about detaching -I would seek them out -

Good on the gratitude... I expect to be grateful for my dentist today... toothache! Please see if you find something every day.

Luke

Hi Luke
10% way to go. .
I am revising my goal for the race now and I get a medal for finishing. First spirts medal mein ganze Leben!

I was so over the anger and then 10 minutes ago he called from his conference, was pleasant, asked about the dog, said he would look at my kitchen plan after being a total pain about helping Saturday said he will call Thursday. .my thought is what is he up to. .mayv6e that should be my gratitude..a pleasant exchange with a WH...
or maybe better Franken Himmel...nothing better..
Welcome back btw...
loua

I suspect your husband is feeling guilty and conflicted...

I would enjoy the good interaction you get, but don't count on anything, as the WAS has a personal devil to deal with (and it's not you).

Congrats on the racing - it can be so much fun, depending on the place and organization (there is a race here with live music every few km, for example) - I found having a goal outside love and marriage very good - started to cook a lot, for example - maybe you can identify something similar for you.

Gratitude today is for sound, be it music, or the human voice, or birds - there are so many here early in the morning, before the traffic gets going; the bite of an electric guitar, the sometimes palpable presence in (particularly) female singer voices.

Perhaps you could think about alternative things to do, w/o husband, when he is there and being rotten. You do not have to hang around someone who maltreats you or is not pleasant to be with.

Luke

Hi Luke
nice.. gratitude for sound..
Gratitude today
Running can take away depression without drugs..I am grateful for that.. and that I can run..

I don't really want to enjoy the nice interactions. it makes me nervous.. I am waiting for another sneaky blindside to be truthful..
maybe he spoke to his lawyer and realised I have been taking the higher moral ground and if push comes to shove.. could be expensive.
I am sort of waiting to make new connections when I move. It is going to be hard enough to leave my support network here and start again alone..basically..without making more friends to leave..
I will look at the meetups over in the Ruhr...also sports and maybe a charity.. that would be good for me and my German..

I had the strangest interaction with his sister. if you read her email you would think I had started an affair and destroyed her brothers life???

She warned me to "let him go" or I would have bad karma??
Maybe his whole family is loopy? and let him go where exactly. he lives in his own apartment, does nothing here, minimal financial support.no emotional support.. really what is she thinking.
so had a good run tonight, have moved up to the faster women's group..
friends for dinner tomorrow night- cooking Middle Eastern..
Had to watch kids take an exam today, so way too long with my own thoughts.. need to stay busier...

I am thinking to tell him to not bother coming down.. he can pick up his stuff after it is moved...and don't call..he is just annoying but then yesterday was pleasant..

I run when he is not pleasant, told him last time I need to have a run so I don't say something we both might regret then made sure I had my newest pants and shirt which really show I have lost so much weight and I am in the best shape of my entire adult life......he hates people who wear running gear, he hates that I have expensive shoes, and I suspect I can probably outrun him.. I like that

Loua

Hi Lou,

I think a good way to enjoy the nice interactions is just for a short good thing, with no future implied by them, like having a good interaction with someone you never see again, still good to have.

I'd invite your Franken friends up to Essen - show them the place, or meet halfway between - lots of interesting central Germany stuff there - Goslar is great, for example.

That is worth thinking about - asking him to not come down - in a negative psychology way - wonder what the reaction would be. I suspect it might be positive, as this would be a 180 for you? And is good detaching...

Don't sweat it about the sister - she is not exactly neutral, I think -

I ran with music this time, a first for a race for me, and it was good, except for the end, when a 30 minute Hungarian lesson came on... the wonders of random play order...

Luke

Hey
this has been a rough week.. if I am not running or recovering from running then I am obsessing.. I am too much alone I know that but too obsessed.. even when I am with people i am thinking about him.. even when I am planning for work I am thinking about him.. Luckily when I am with 25 kids I can not think about him..

He seems so set on divorce to help his anxiety.. he thinks it will go away once everything is organised..
we have never had a conversation about the consequences.. he just wants what he wants.. which is so not like him pre affair.

At the moment I can think straight but that is because i just finished a 12 k run.. in the morning I will be back to loopy town crying fits..
obsessing, planning, imagining conversations that might never take place. Trying to manipulate-- i know I am doing that..

Working on detaching but it is such an effort.. that is the reason for the bad week. I have not contacted him and I am so sad and so lonely and ..But I know that I have to detach for me.. and I just find it too hard..
I really wonder about this hanging on .. I am changing for me discovering a better version of me..

but maybe if I just wiped him.. left him totally it might hurt less..

Lou - you may find it useful to look up treating obsessive compulsive disorder, for which I found cognitive behavioral therapy useful. In my case it was having someone (sister, friend, etc.) reassure me that it would be all right (I am eternally grateful to a nurse who said "time heals all things"), so getting out of tunnel vision panic mode.

You sound like a smart, interesting, fit, capable woman - and at least in my experience, an end is also a beginning. Let yourself be open to how other men (or women) perceive you - I bet you will see that they enjoy and find you worth being with. Know that you are worth a lot, and that your husband is a fool for not seeing this.

Luke

Hi Luke
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
And time heals is a mantra I use.
Maybe I do need something specific as far as therapy but it also requires self control too..
I hate that when my coach asked who do I have as support I answered .her None else in my life knows exactly what is happening..I hate being the subject of gossip..
You have been a lifeline..really.. but this is too hard alone..and the pretending it is fine is exhausting and the holding onto hope is exhausting, but if this marriage is truly done forever I still cannot imagine a life alone..it is all too hard and really not worth the struggle..
I don't want to live alone and I don't have the courage to trust again and without trust I will always be alone..
It has been 7 months and no sign of him changing his mind to even discuss reconciliation or a relationship..
The more I stay away the better it suits him.. the more it hurts me and I hate being needy and clingy..

I work on detaching.. I am not looking to rescue him or influence him.. the more he sees me the less he likes me..I remind him his life is not organised...
I am withdrawing more and more .. makes me sad..but unfriendly contact cut me to the quick..
Where did he go this funny, friendly affectionate man?
Why didn't I see him slipping away? Why do I know now all the mistakes we made and there is no chance to fix them?

When is enough enough? When is DB over and just a way to continue to stop the healing.. or what ever happens next..
I have a 2 part life.. 1 outside where I am functional and one alone 7 where I am so disfunctional and sad and , lonely and missing him everyday..my life was so good with him in it.. how do you detach that?

In the next 2 months I am going to lose everything I enjoy and value my home, my garden, my region, my friends, my job, my dog my marriage..
What's left?

Lou I'm sorry your struggling, it's completely normal to have the feelings & emotions that your experiencing and it's all part of the healing process - it's very painful but try to keep in mind that every minute of pain moves you a little closer to coming out of this happier & stronger (you will, I promise!).

DB is for YOU, yes saving your marriage is a possible bonus but ultimately it's about saving yourself whilst going through a very very tough time - you really do need a good support network around you that can help you through this, why don't you feel comfortable telling your close friends/family about your situation? It really would help?

I have moved so much that close friends have been lost, I live where I don't speak the language. So that is out..

family are in another hemisphere.. they don't need the grief when they are so far away
work colleagues are work colleagues..

He was my friend...

Lou - I reached a point where I realized I could no longer count on my W for my happiness and that I had to make things happen. Yes, you end up letting go of the old life - which was good at some point, but now no longer is - but you also realize that there are possibilities out there. Yes, the responsibility is yours, and it can be a burden, but there are rewards.

I let all the pain out at EE, which was so good, but also realized and was told that much is up to me. I second upwards point of having a support network. Perhaps you could have a poke around for this - especially in Essen, which I imagine is bigger than Franken - and report back.

Gratitude for 2-3 days - insight (for some work stuff), running (this really fixed my head this morning), and making music Saturday night, where beyond the musicians and the material, a sexually attractive woman was present (and a runner!).

What is left is you, the real you, though perhaps washed by sadness just now. You don't have to live with someone immediately; why not be gentle toward yourself, and take life lightly for a while? Tell us what you encounter, tell us what you want to do (great Japanese culture in Duesseldorf, for example), or bike tours in Muenster, or Holland, the monorail in Wuppertal. You need projects and meetups and to occasionally have a glimmer of fun and possibility and fresh air for your brain and soul.

Yes, can you make a sketch of what your future might contain? If you are in the Franken countryside (lovely), then find this up Essen-way. What will LouLou be like?

Luke

You know, this sounds like grieving, with its various stages (see the Kubler-Ross model), and you are somewhere in the middle. It might be worth looking around for how to get to the last stage, acceptance. L.

Hi Luke
Could be part of the grieving but more than just my marriage. I LOVE living in Franconia.. so I am grieving the move to the Ruhr.. ugly, nasty area. Losing my dog..my garden.. no more white tulips for me.. or cherries, apples, plums, those funny flat peaches I started to grow here..roses.. lilac..
Lots of things really..
Gratitude.
I don't have to live in Gelsenkirchen, best 10 time ever for me,its spargel season, running friends thought to invite me for dinner,
Luke sounds good and happy.. I am grateful for that..

Then why move to Essen? Why not stay in Franken? I had a job possibility from a guy I know in Gelsenkirchen once.

Grateful for drums today, trees yesterday, look up!

Luke

He moved there and I was organised to move there before he decided to go fremd.
No job here, house has to be sold.no way I can I make the repayments or maintain it..
I do have a job there..
sort of simple reasoning

be grateful you did not take the Gelsenkirchen job.. highest unemployment rate in Germany I believe..Ugly town..

Grateful today

The Wiese is so beautiful. and it is all weeds.

My dog survived a leap through the window and out of a moving car!!!! He saw a neighbour.

The last one ( sad this ) My H called this morning because he missed my call last night..
but I am grateful...
And drums .. really.. I have a student who drums ALL the time..pens, pencils, back of the chair.. he is pretty good but AHHH crazy making
Guess this isn't standard DB thread.. oh well

One of the weirdest things my WAH does is lie about things that he does not need to.. He said his business trip was for 1 day then it was 2 said he would not be back until midnight tonight..not true.

I am in town to organise my apartment and run a race. I told him that , said we could meet if he wants or not.. up to him.
The last time we met here he said he felt pressured..so I thougnt to avoid that.

Why lie ? and so badly..
He has known about this weekend for 6 months.. said we need to talk.. his words then says.. maybe I will be out of town..
I almost said "I dont really care"..so I am doing my thing..and wondering.. maybe he was always a liar.
He sends short texts at times..but I am not feeling like they are anything to go build on..
It is just odd.. he could just tell the truth or give a straight answer. ?.he says not zure or don't know or we'll see.. inzteac ov no.. No is better for me but he seems to be afraid to do that,,
Looks lime a bad guy maybe..
Who knows...
Gratitude
Did not die on autobahn
hVe been lent a great book by the Dali Lama..

Hola Lou,

Yeah, the Autobahn is not exactly a quiet country road ...

I really liked that you did not care - that is a good sign of detaching, keep on pursuing that...

If you can get to the point of not caring, or perhaps only doing so for his sake, then you are stronger, and that is good. He, believe it or not, does care (short SMS as evidence) I think, but perhaps not yet for the right, good, motives.

If you then can say to yourself what/how you want to be and do it - GAL - and get yourself back, you are on a good, healing path.

The company group I work with hiked SoCal's second highest mountain yesterday - good, but tiring, fun. Will you have a group of people to connect with, perhaps via your new job, in GK? Can you start building connections early?

Gratitude: respectful acknowledgement by my boss.

Luke

So
Gelsenkirchen was better than I expected..
Race was great.. new best time..

I think you are right with the detaching..it helps me a bit.. though I have a way to go..
Apparently the Ruhr is experiencing a lauf boom.. so many running clubs..that is option number 1.
Hiking .. in my mind a Bayern thing. Maybe I will find someone to come with..
One thing that is interesting, for want of a better word, his need for speed for a divorce.. he thinks things will be organised then..and he will feel less pressure..
No discussion permitted
I don't want to negotiate but feel like at least I should be able to discuss my view.. he said NO..he has decided.
Keep looking at depression sites.. he has way too many symptoms to not be depressed..

There always seems to be a tension when we telephone. I said maybe we should not call.. he said why not...
Gratitude...a friend said how much progress had made in running... praise is a great thing isn't it.?
Glad your boss is noticing you..

Hola Lou,

the last part of your tag name reminds me of one of my favorite words (aleatory), and I think might be lucky.

I am glad to hear that GK was better than you thought - so the glass could be half full (or 3/4) and there could be a good future there, especially if you make it so. With that many runners around, you should be able to find some possible friends, and being a non-German may make you more interesting to people (it did when I worked in Germany).

I think your H just wants to stop his hurt and uncertainty by 'getting this thing done quickly'. I wouldn't bug him (this would be pursuing), but you of course have a right to state your POV (though this can pressure the other party and so drive them away). It is better, but harder, to not state your case, I think. You have read DB or DR, nicht wahr?

Congrats on your race - always nice to reach a PR. How long was it? There is nice biking up north - I've always wanted to do the Weser bike route.

Keep it light when you talk with h, and it is better if he initiates the contact, not you. This occasionally stinks, but it also forces you to look elsewhere and outward, which is good.

Gratitude: jacaranda trees.

Luke