Hi all, I am new here.
I found the 180 online, put into practice and by following links, found myself here. I bought the book, DIvorce Busting, and am slowly working my way through it.
H and I separated on August 1st, so this is very raw for me.
We separated once before, but I don't think we made the necessary changes, and now a few years later, here we are again.
Money has always been a sore point, he spends it and then resents me for using what little we have to get the bills paid. I think it has become a control issue with him determined to spend and me determined to not spend....and the fight is on.
H has taken to withholding affection to the point where we have not ML in over a year. I resent him for doing it, he resents me for putting him in that position.
H also spent time in Iraq, and I believe it changed him in ways that I cannot even explain.
Our M is unhealthy and broken. But yet, we do still love each other.
He moved out, we are going to co-own the house until such time as I buy him out and we are going to share custody of the family dog.
It's all very civil, amicable and polite. I want to pull my hair out and scream. I have the rules on my phone,and every time I want to call him and cry my heart out, I find something to do. This calm (even if some days it's only a facade) is perplexing him, I know. He keeps expecting me to call him repeatedly, to start a fight, to melt down, and I don't know what steps to take next.
I know he needs time to miss me, I know he needs time to sort out his feelings. Hell, I do to. I'm no good to anyone as I am...and I don't think I would take him back right now because we are both messed up. But I would want to more than anything.
I'm a little wishy washy right now.
I want him back, but I don't want the constant drama back.
Today is a rough day. I read my rules, stuck by them as best I can and try to keep busy.
I honestly do not know what else to do.
If I don't contact him, I seem to get a text asking how my day was, or he seems to need to stop by for something.
When we separated the first time, he said he was never coming back....then I got good and bloody angry at some of the crap (can I say that here?) he was pulling, and tossed him on his ear...that made him sit up and take notice, change his mind and we reconciled.
This time, I am trying to work on me. He says we are done, but if he changed his mind once before, I know it can happen again.
We never stopped talking, so I guess I need to work on my next step. Patience. Of which I am not very good at....
I know I am still on moderation, so I will just keep posting here like a journal, it will be good to look back on in a few weeks time.
I spent the weekend in a lot of deep thought. I'm still working my way through DB. I'm not in any rush to implement any plan, other than sticking to my 180 as best as I can.
On Page 128 DB talks about, "Notice what is different about the times you are getting along." I had to dig far and deep. I couldn't pinpoint a single thing.
As I was walking out the door to work, I saw my husband's coat that he had won for Point Champion of the year. He was so proud of that accomplishment, and he was happy. We were happy. I had taken up the sport a few years after him, and won Rookie of the Year. Unfortunately the sporting place closed down, and there is not another like it within 4-5 hours of where we live.
What was different? We talked, we smiled, we touched. No matter how exasperated I got with him, we had fun.
Today, we have huge amounts of resentments, he said, she said.
As I am moving through the book, the phrase, "If it's not working, try something different," really hit home.
We were doing something different back then, and seems we forgot how to.
If I hadn't seen that jacket today.....
Muse,
Yikes... I am in between tasks at work and decided to drop in to offer some support. Sorry that others haven't been here first. Typically, this place gets lots of traffic.
Since you have already separated, you might find Divorce Remedy more targeted with specific game plans. You didn't get here overnight and it's not going to be resolved overnight either. You've got a pretty unhealthy dynamic and since you're the one who is here, the onus is going to be on YOU to do the changing.
A few things catch my eye:
Money has always been a sore point, he spends it and then resents me for using what little we have to get the bills paid. I think it has become a control issue with him determined to spend and me determined to not spend....and the fight is on.
Sounds like you two have brought some childhood baggage and fears into your M and you're at an impasse. What's the psychology of his feelings about money? And what is your background?
Are you a control freak? Do you have to have the last word? Are you sarcastic? Are you critical? A perfectionist? What are his chief complaints about you that you have not addressed?
I know there have got to be some. My XH was like yours in a way that pretty much nobody else here seems to react: he also withheld sex from me. I guess it's kind of unusual but at the worst point in our R, he told our MC that he just couldn't have sex with someone he despised.
That being said, I'm willing to bet that in his mind you've accumulated a list of unpleasant character flaws that he feels are deal breakers. Can you share?
This calm (even if some days it's only a facade) is perplexing him, I know. He keeps expecting me to call him repeatedly, to start a fight, to melt down, and I don't know what steps to take next.
This is what MWD calls a 180. If it has been your nature to engage with him this way, then stop it altogether. If you don't know what to do or say, then do or say nothing.
He's undoubtedly moved out because he doesn't feel hopeful that things are going to change or that you are going to change. If he can count on you to dance the same dance with him, it's going to be more of the same. Change it up.
On Page 128 DB talks about, "Notice what is different about the times you are getting along." I had to dig far and deep. I couldn't pinpoint a single thing.
I know you can do this. You haven't been getting along for awhile. Do you talk at all?
If you have to go to the distant past for clues, when he felt happy with you, what were you doing or not doing that made him feel close and connected with you?
Your money differences are the elephant in the living room. But I'd bet my mortgage that they are the smoke screen for a lot of other struggles between the two of you.
If I don't contact him, I seem to get a text asking how my day was, or he seems to need to stop by for something.
Then use these opportunities to see what kind of response you get to attempts at conversation. Are you congenial or do you act petulant and whiny?
What are you actively doing to stop the scorekeeping and work on the resentment?
Do you have a faith community or support network? Counselors?
Now some rules to live by while you figure stuff out:
1. Don't lose your temper.
2. Set some communication goals
3. Make sure you work on personal goals and things that make you happy.
I've got to run, but will be back.
Good luck,
Betsey
Hi Muse, sorry you find yourself here, but welcome.
Underdog asked some great questions and gave good advice.
I can relate, my H and I are very "amicable", though we are starting to talk less and less. I want to yell and tell him what a jerk he is, instead I smile, validate, and never get angry. It's becoming more natural as I am more detached. You sound like you're headed in the right direction w/ looking at your self and the changes you can make with in, to be a better you. I will check back w/ your sitch, all the best to you on your journey!
My XH was like yours in a way that pretty much nobody else here seems to react: he also withheld sex from me. I guess it's kind of unusual but at the worst point in our R, he told our MC that he just couldn't have sex with someone he despised.
I can relate to this very much.
"As I am moving through the book, the phrase, "If it's not working, try something different," really hit home.
We were doing something different back then, and seems we forgot how to."
That isn't quite what the book meant, but I think the biggest thing in your sitch is that both of you have to learn to let go and be more accepting and forgiving of one another. Going back to when you were first going out, you accepted each other's quirks and opinions. As time went out, it changed from acceptance and compromise of one another's opinion to, I'm right and you're wrong. That's where resentment is created.
Find a way that will get you back to that place.
Mimi30 - It's very familiar to me too.
MrBond - I know. I just don't know how to stop the downward spiral. I'm working on it though. I believe that the "different" we were doing back then was what we have lost. 10 days away gave me a lot of perspective.
I came home on Saturday evening, he was very polite. He has been incredibly busy working as well as two side jobs, and has been going hard 14-16 hours per day. He looked exhausted. He has also done something to his shoulder. I grabbed the balm, and worked out the kinks for him. I swear he was simply leaning into the touch and just enjoying my hands on him. It was nothing sexual, just that contact with another. He slept on the couch.
Last night, he put in another brutal day, came by, I fed him(because he is not eating) and he made yet another comment about how good it is that he has freedom.
I lost it
I told him that every time he hammers it home about his joy in his new life, he is hurting me and that he needed to go. He threw a little bit of a tantrum, but we ended up talking. Really talking.
He admitted that he is determined to keep that wall up, or he will backslide into coming home and back to the same old crap.
I told him that I was not asking him to come home and that I agreed that there is no way we could ever go back to that.
He said that I am still holding onto hope and he cannot go back to that.
I told him that the last time we separated, I was determined that there was only one path, we would get back together and that was it. We didn't fix us, only the marriage. This time, I'm working on me, and I am going to see where my path leads. I refuse to close off any path, because that sure did not work the last time.
He said, we are broken and it cannot be fixed.
I told him that I disagreed. We have all this love, and we let all this crap pile up on it.
He said, no we are broken.
I said, no if we were broken, you wouldn't love me anymore.
The look on his face....he said he hadn't thought of it that way,
I do believe I made him do what he has been avoiding for the last month. And that is think about our situation. He left, i got a big hug.
Today, instead of the usual gruff hello, I got a good morning sunshine, how did you sleep? He had to stop by to grab something, and has retreated back behind his wall, but it seems a little thinner.
I believe I need to walk very carefully here. Patience patience patience.
Is this false hope or am I doing something right?
And as expected, H has completely withdrawn behind his brick wall.
I don't get it, I mean, I understand the pattern, but man, it throws me. Yesterday he tracked me down at the Dogpark, just to tell me I could keep the dog for another night. We even held hands for a bit.
Today it is all about filing a legal separation agreement.
And I did post a really long response to Underdog, but it has not been approved, however, the one after it,, has been approved. So it will be a little out of order when it gets approved. :-)
Also.....am I being an idiot? Is there truly hope?
Last night, I discovered I have full blown sinusitis, the dog is sick too, my D is in crisis over something done to her (cops are involved), I'm not sleeping, it's a mess. Really universe? I know we are never given more than we can handle, but man the universe has a high opinion of me right now!
H texted me twice, I didn't answer because I was trying to console my D...some things are just more important sometimes.
Today after yet another night of tossing and turning, I called him, gave him the details, after he essentially chided me for not returning his text messages.
I don't understand men.
I am going to try and repost my response to Underdog...I understand posts sometimes get lost....and I'm still on moderation...so it happens. LOL (I had it all typed up in Notes, so still have it)
Sorry for taking so long to respond everyone. I took 10 days to run away to my home town. I reconnected with old friends and family. I took our daughter with us, it was good healing for both of us. I came home, and my husband who has been "house sitting" seemed both happy and afraid to see me.
I am back, calmer, more self assured and ready to see where my path is going to lead me.
Money has always been a sore point, he spends it and then resents me for using what little we have to get the bills paid. I think it has become a control issue with him determined to spend and me determined to not spend....and the fight is on.
Sounds like you two have brought some childhood baggage and fears into your M and you're at an impasse. What's the psychology of his feelings about money? And what is your background?
Are you a control freak? Do you have to have the last word? Are you sarcastic? Are you critical? A perfectionist? What are his chief complaints about you that you have not addressed?
We have a LOT of debt, most of it happened when we were handed an unexpected "bill". It was a years salary, and it crippled us for 4 years. It has caused a lot of strife.
Yes this has made me incredibly worried about money, and probably a control freak about it. And I bet I have been incredibly critical, and have hurt his self esteem. The debt is paid ,we have climbed out of that hole and are finally on solid financial ground. But the hurt, his and mine, are still there.
That being said, I'm willing to bet that in his mind you've accumulated a list of unpleasant character flaws that he feels are deal breakers. Can you share?
Oh yes. He feels that I have been judgmental, I have let myself go, I have held him back from having all the toys that his friends have, and assorted other things that I am not sure if he thinks them of me, or just doesn't want to see them in himself.
This calm (even if some days it's only a facade) is perplexing him, I know. He keeps expecting me to call him repeatedly, to start a fight, to melt down, and I don't know what steps to take next.
This is what MWD calls a 180. If it has been your nature to engage with him this way, then stop it altogether. If you don't know what to do or say, then do or say nothing.
He's undoubtedly moved out because he doesn't feel hopeful that things are going to change or that you are going to change. If he can count on you to dance the same dance with him, it's going to be more of the same. Change it up.
On Page 128 DB talks about, "Notice what is different about the times you are getting along." I had to dig far and deep. I couldn't pinpoint a single thing.
I know you can do this. You haven't been getting along for awhile. Do you talk at all?
We do talk, he hides behind this wall of politeness, and I am told how happy he is, how free he is, and how much he is looking forward to doing now that he has that freedom. I do have an update as of last night, but I will get to that at the end.
If you have to go to the distant past for clues, when he felt happy with you, what were you doing or not doing that made him feel close and connected with you?
Your money differences are the elephant in the living room. But I'd bet my mortgage that they are the smoke screen for a lot of other struggles between the two of you.
Before we were financially destroyed, we were happy. We had ups and downs, a great sex life, communication (good and bad). I used to make his favourite meals, I learned to have the freezer stocked for the surprise 10 guys invited over for beer and whatever's LOL, we cleaned the house together(ok he had to be prodded a bit), overall, I think I made him feel needed, wanted and that he mattered.
If I don't contact him, I seem to get a text asking how my day was, or he seems to need to stop by for something.
Then use these opportunities to see what kind of response you get to attempts at conversation. Are you congenial or do you act petulant and whiny?
When we separated in 2008, yes. This time? NO. I have tried to stay away from text/phone/email begging/pleading and whining. I try and keep it pleasant.
What are you actively doing to stop the scorekeeping and work on the resentment?
Do you have a faith community or support network? Counselors?
Now some rules to live by while you figure stuff out:
1. Don't lose your temper.
2. Set some communication goals
3. Make sure you work on personal goals and things that make you happy.
I am deciding that the little stuff that drives me nuts, is really not about the stupid little stuff at all. It comes down to, if the bathroom is a mess, clean it or hire a service. If he is late, it's traffic or a long day at work, or beer with a friend, not him purposefully avoiding me.
I keep saying to myself, "Do I want to be happy or right?"
I want to be happy.
I wanted to let you know my W told me she loved me, wanted to be with me, etc, 4 days ago. Today, she just says we need to be divorced, even as she told me she loved me.
Don't sweat it - seriously. Most WAS are in a "fog" - basically swaying and whipping around at the whim of whatever emotion comes through them. Just as your H's jacket triggered a thought in you, I'm certain a sock on the floor can trigger anger and resentment in them, and they dip back into the fog. My W has said almost everything you said your H said - "We're broken" and all that rot.
I will say too, my biggest setbacks with W are when I lose my temper - so mind the comment above about not losing it. I don't cuss and yell and say nasty things, but it just triggers fear in W.
Also, good for you for your comment on not texting/phone/email/begging. When my W said the whole love you thing for the first time in 6 weeks, I had stopped texting and calling and limited interactions to a few necessary times in the span of a couple weeks.
Keep your chin up!
Muse,
There is always hope. And even if the outcome isn't what you are working for right now, you'll find hope that you'll come out a better and happier person.
I came home, and my husband who has been "house sitting" seemed both happy and afraid to see me.
I am back, calmer, more self assured and ready to see where my path is going to lead me.
I've always found getting away from my general life and living in my head suits me well. Glad it gave you and your D a chance to regroup.
We have a LOT of debt, most of it happened when we were handed an unexpected "bill". It was a years salary, and it crippled us for 4 years. It has caused a lot of strife.
Yes this has made me incredibly worried about money, and probably a control freak about it. And I bet I have been incredibly critical, and have hurt his self esteem. The debt is paid ,we have climbed out of that hole and are finally on solid financial ground. But the hurt, his and mine, are still there.
I can totally understand this dynamic. Muse, you might have to go back to your childhood to work on where this fear originated and how you're going to manage in the future. If it makes you feel better, I had to do it myself. My situation wasn't as desperate as yours, but I grew up without much $$ and whenever my parents seemed to get some, some catastrophe came along to take it away.
I have a mother figure mentor who lives life with the attitude of abundance. Everything she has RIGHT NOW is enough. I've worked really hard to approach my own fears like that. The more attention you give to the fear, the more likely you will manifest what you think about.
Maybe tell yourself that money is currency only. It buys what you need, but it will not be the one thing that defines you. I realize you had some setbacks. I'm a business owner, and the past 4 years put me into massive debt. I'm having a good year in 2013, and slowly making some headway but I have a long way to go. I just look at it as work in progress and then leave myself alone.
Have you ever read Wild at Heart by John Eldredge? I'm going to suggest it to you to maybe help you understand the male psyche. It rocked my world, and when I finished it, I cried like a baby. I realized that I had contributed to breaking down a man who was trying to do what men do instinctively.
This doesn't excuse irresponsibility.
We do talk, he hides behind this wall of politeness, and I am told how happy he is, how free he is, and how much he is looking forward to doing now that he has that freedom. I do have an update as of last night, but I will get to that at the end.
I can see that you're taking his comments personally. Don't! Listen, if your H ain't happy, there is no way your marriage will be happy. Listen to him. Watch him. What's he getting from his "freedom" that he doesn't have when he's with you? Really look at this, Muse. Here is a good part of the answers to your questions.
Encourage him to seek the answers he needs, Muse. Be supportive. Be empathetic. Apparently, there is a lot of hurt and resentment here and you are going to have to shelve yours for awhile to heal this. Keep telling yourself that you want to be happy vs. right. Dropping the scorekeeping is what helps the forgiveness process.
Now, for that update?
Betsey
Thank you Jon and Betsey!!
I will order that book today!
My posts ended up out of order....this was the update. I do have another update, but will hold off until after our meeting today.
I came home on Saturday evening, he was very polite. He has been incredibly busy working as well as two side jobs, and has been going hard 14-16 hours per day. He looked exhausted. He has also done something to his shoulder. I grabbed the balm, and worked out the kinks for him. I swear he was simply leaning into the touch and just enjoying my hands on him. It was nothing sexual, just that contact with another. He slept on the couch.
Last night, he put in another brutal day, came by, I fed him(because he is not eating) and he made yet another comment about how good it is that he has freedom.
I lost it
I told him that every time he hammers it home about his joy in his new life, he is hurting me and that he needed to go. He threw a little bit of a tantrum, but we ended up talking. Really talking.
He admitted that he is determined to keep that wall up, or he will backslide into coming home and back to the same old crap.
I told him that I was not asking him to come home and that I agreed that there is no way we could ever go back to that.
He said that I am still holding onto hope and he cannot go back to that.
I told him that the last time we separated, I was determined that there was only one path, we would get back together and that was it. We didn't fix us, only the marriage. This time, I'm working on me, and I am going to see where my path leads. I refuse to close off any path, because that sure did not work the last time.
He said, we are broken and it cannot be fixed.
I told him that I disagreed. We have all this love, and we let all this crap pile up on it.
He said, no we are broken.
I said, no if we were broken, you wouldn't love me anymore.
The look on his face....he said he hadn't thought of it that way,
I do believe I made him do what he has been avoiding for the last month. And that is think about our situation. He left, i got a big hug.
Today, instead of the usual gruff hello, I got a good morning sunshine, how did you sleep? He had to stop by to grab something, and has retreated back behind his wall, but it seems a little thinner.
I believe I need to walk very carefully here. Patience patience patience.
Is this false hope or am I doing something right?
Oh I forgot to add. When it comes to money, I can absolutely pinpoint my own issues with getting hammered with that debt a few years ago. We almost lost our home, groceries and utilites went on credit cards, my credit rating was destroyed. Looking back, I can see how it made me a control freak about money.
You're not an idiot, this is your path, use it for the greater good.
My H was always very polite after the BD and said many of the same things your H is saying. He also had an unbreachable wall, occasionally a brick would loosen and he would quickly patch it up. He was a champion at going dark, no personal contact, would only communicate by email (kids), only saw me f2f when he absolutely had to.
Give him the space he needs and more. Your "lost it" moment is a signal that you also need to see less of him. He doesn't need instances that cause him to sit there as you're losing it and think "This is why I'm gone."
Betsey's given you some very good advice. Another book I found helpful was How to Improve Your Relationship Without Talking About It.
Good luck.
Muse,
Sorry it's been so long. I've been slammed at work and just can't seem to gain traction long enough to be back here often.
Just remember one thing:
I told him that every time he hammers it home about his joy in his new life, he is hurting me and that he needed to go.
You really ought to stop saying this stuff to him - because these kinds of statements are all about you and your feelings and don't have compassion for him.
Look, I know it's hard to show compassion for the one person who keeps hurting you. But it's HIS journey and he needs space and time to figure some of this stuff out. If he still loves you, you're going to have to encourage him to see things differently. So try to muster some gratitude for him being the person who's forcing you to learn a new dance together. What was happening wasn't working, and now you get that chance.
So until you can show that you feel that way, all you need to do is nod and validate him. You say instead, "I can see why you feel that way now. I'm sorry it took us to get to this point." And leave it alone. Once he feels he can stop fighting you on the little stuff, he just might think about the big stuff.
Capisce?
Did you get that book?
Betsey
Hi again. I find it hard to write here. We were doing very well, until I was hit with a chest cold, sinusitis, weeks of insomnia (this has been an ongoing issue for years), etc etc etc....it was the perfect storm of physical, financial, work issues and a couple other things that hit me all at once.
The fight was huge, i know I am failing epicly at this distance thing. I stopped contacting him in any way. I cannot keep up this level of stress.
Yesterday we had an emergency. I didn't know who else to call, so I called him. He dropped everything, drove 45 minutes and we pulled together as a team.
Labug - thank you. I will think on your words
Betsey - his comments were meant to hurt, not how he actually felt/feels. He finally admitted that and has stopped it. But I do understand what you are saying. We have not had a conversation or confrontation about "us" in a week now. Right now I am just going to take the support heis offering me in this tough time (the emergency, not our separation), and see if I can learn that new dance.
Oh and yes...I have ordered the book...it should be here on Monday.
[quote=labug]You're not an idiot, this is your path, use it for the greater good.
My H was always very polite after the BD and said many of the same things your H is saying. He also had an unbreachable wall, occasionally a brick would loosen and he would quickly patch it up. He was a champion at going dark, no personal contact, would only communicate by email (kids), only saw me f2f when he absolutely had to.
Give him the space he needs and more. /quote]
I have to second everything labug said, it is exactly what my W does.
Our family a regency had a very poor outcome. My husband doesn't deal well with this stuff (stuff it in a box and never think about it again)and essentially ran away to hide (with his friends). He came by this morning, made me tea while I was in the shower and he opened up.
He had actually thought about his reaction, and while it maybe won't change, he talked to me about it. We had a really nice talk, nothing about our M, or issues, but just talked. He told me about the stupid things a coworker was doing, i told him some of my work silliness.
As he was getting ready to go, I said, this was really nice, he said, yeah when we're not fighting, I really like this too.
He said he would come by tomorrow or Tuesday (I didn't ask) and I then offered to cook a family dinner on Tuesday. He said he would really like that.
As many times as I keep slipping, I like to think I am learning.
I spent sometime with a very skittish horse today. I was told that no one is able to catch him except his owner. I was patient, kind, held no expectations and rewarded every step towards me. It took me about 10 minutes to get him to stop eyeing me with suspicion, relax and let me close. I had never met this horse before. Behind me I could hear Nother woman say, "Oh wow, he is never this trusting."
Probably a bad analogy, but it occurs to me, that instead of chasing the horse around the field, yelling and demanding, kindness and patience did it.....maybe if I turn that processor how I interact with my H, I wonder what results I will see?
My big things right now:
-Listen more than I speak
-No expectations....this is hard...but I am slowly improving
-Patience
-Kindness
I like this analogy - not that H is a horse, but I read somewhere else that someone gave a similar analogy about getting a squirrel to eat out of your hand. If you sit perfectly still, they'll start to look at you, and slowly wonder over - if you flinch, they'll run back to the tree. If you chase, they'll run UP the tree.
Good thoughts.
Hey Muse,
Sorry it's been awhile - I was out of town and just got back. Glad you updated and others chimed in with good observations.
Animals lash out when they are hurt and want to be left alone. Even if he deliberately says stuff that is mean and meant to hurt, try to resist the urge to become the victim. Instead, go really low key and maybe say, "Ouch" and then walk away. Come here if you want some sympathy.
And that advice lends itself well with your goals:
My big things right now:
-Listen more than I speak
-No expectations....this is hard...but I am slowly improving
-Patience
-Kindness
Backtracking:
maybe if I turn that processor how I interact with my H, I wonder what results I will see?
Exactly!
Back to your goals... a friend once told me that God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth so we'd do twice as much listening as talking. I think that's a really wise concept. Going a little further, when the water is safe enough for you to dip a toe in, maybe encourage his musings and allow him to speak freely. Tell yourself that you're information gathering and don't react. You might be surprised.
Patience and kindness go a LONG way in healing. Go with this. Set out to make every communication with him positive and meaningful. By doing this, you'll be showing him you can change. As I always tell people, don't tell me stuff. SHOW me stuff. Words are cheap.
Good luck! And good job!
Betsey
Ok. Having an attack of nerves. Today is my H's Bday. When he said he would come by for dinner, I reminded him of that fact...he said he would like to spend it with us.
I bought all the ingredients for one of his favourite meals, bought a small present (something he needs and would never spend $$$ to buy himself), cleaned the house, put on some makeup (which I have been doing a lot lately anyways) and put on something pretty.
I look good, the house looks good, and dinner is going to be GOOD!
Now here is where the panic comes in...did I do too much? Am I going overboard? Am I over thinking this? Should I throw some dirt around the house and leave the dishes in the sink?
Now here is where the panic comes in...did I do too much? Am I going overboard? Am I over thinking this? Should I throw some dirt around the house and leave the dishes in the sink?
You are overthinking it and he will see that you are trying to hard. Relaaaaaaaaaax. What you are doing is what you would be doing "as if" you were not having issues at the moment. So I think it is a beautiful effort.
Remember to breathe through your nose and out through your mouth, do that a few times when you start to feel nervous. And go into this with NO expectations of any great reactions from him. If you base it off of his reactions you will be disappointed and unhappy. Do it because you want to do it for him, not to specifically please him, ok?
You can do it!!!
And I forgot to mention the "throw some dirt around the house" made me spit out my tea! that cracked me up.
I'm glad I found this site. I can post my neurosis/quirks here....and then try and let it all go.
Will remember to breathe......I feel like I am waiting for a new date to show up.
No expectations. Just a nice meal with my family.
It was awkward. He just left....I breathed a sigh of relief.
H was on his best behaviour but still hiding behind his wall as if he was bracing for impact. I smiled, listened, talked about work, silly stuff, our dog, our daughter, etc. I listened, and I hope I made headway.
I know he is now heading back to where he is staying, wondering when I will lose my cool, when I will do something that will justify him pulling away.
I did it. I made a nice meal for my family, H loved his present, and it ended on a good note. If I did it once, maybe it will get easier every time.
Oh muse, you did fantastic!
Trust me he was bracing himself for a heated conversation and you did completely the opposite! I bet he is still scratching his head, going "huh, that was really nice".
I know you made a dent. If you move the needle just a little bit then you are gaining ground.
Next time will be easier! YAY MUSE!
That was funny and yes, it will get easier.
There ya go, Muse.
Now you know that:
1. You can do this, and do it with charm and aplomb
2. He's paying attention.
I know he is now heading back to where he is staying, wondering when I will lose my cool, when I will do something that will justify him pulling away.
You're a quick learner, Muse. You got this right.
I did it. I made a nice meal for my family, H loved his present, and it ended on a good note. If I did it once, maybe it will get easier every time.
Now it's time for the warning. Just to make sure that you keep your good grounding. Sometimes when things are going well, they will pick fights or push buttons just to make sure that they're not confused (which they are). Resist that bait and just keep on keeping on. With practice it really DOES get easier. Then at some point down the road, you wake up and realize that you actually DID change. It's kind of liberating.
People who know and love me - especially family members - always knew me as an impatient Aries girl. I'm very proud to say that I no longer wear that moniker. In fact, one of my aunts commented a few years ago, "Betsey has been impatient all her life" when my mom chirped in, "That was true long ago, but she is one of the most patient people in our family now." I had no idea my mom has been paying attention.
So keep up the good work!
Betsey
I smiled, listened, talked about work, silly stuff, our dog, our daughter, etc. I listened, and I hope I made headway.
I agree with PM, you did great! He was probably expecting a R, S or D conversation and likely was pleasantly surprised that you didn't bring it up, but just made light, fluffy talk. Well done! Keep all conversations similar to this.
Yesterday I called him. I had to ask him to drop off something of mine. He was very cool and business like. Ouch. I said nothing. Right after I got off work, he called to apologize for his behaviour and told me I don't deserve that.
But this is the pattern, we have a nice talk/evening/date? where he opens up, then ba k behind his wall, I am treated like an unwanted customer, the apology and then days of silence. Wash, rinse, repeat.
It's hard
Totally ouch. But at least he called back and apologized! I would love to hear that from H. Any movement really, lol.
You said it, wash rinse repeat! love it.
Muse - this is common for me as well. W will open up, be funny, flirty, laugh. Then two days later, almost angry, quiet, ignore me.
I think they let the wall slip a little, realize it, and slam it back into place. If you stay consistent, it'll change.
I'm preaching this to myself as well!
Very true Jon. I have often said something funny or flirty to my H and he reacted as he would have when we were doing well, smiling, laughing. And then immediately there is a flash of realizing what he did and he reverts back to alien man. Very curious thing to watch.
Muse, Jon and Pud,
Good for noticing the high point: he apologized. This is a big clue that they are watching everything you do/not do and say/not say very carefully. He knows when he's being a jerk. As long as you don't revert to old behaviors, you're going to encourage the good side of him to show his face.
This is what applies to all of you. They *need* the distance that being a jerk provides them. Does this make sense? As long as you don't take the bait and pursue, react or retaliate, you might see this guy more often.
I married and divorced a nice guy. XH doesn't like being a jerk. Really. (I mean we all have jerky moments, so I'm not saying that jerkiness disappears forever.) But he doesn't like behaving in a manner that is opposite of how he was raised. It sounds like you are married to a similar guy.
That being said, it is imperative (and I cannot stress this enough), that you stifle any negative reactions to jerkiness. If you have to comment on stuff that hurts, just say "OUCH". And walk away.
Muse, I've been divorced for 8+ years, but I managed to DB the hell out of a guy who was my good friend before we dated and get THAT guy back. We have a disabled daughter, and I knew the only way to make things work would be to create a new R that works for our family. Every once in awhile, he's jerky. He has a tendency to lecture me. (Don't like that guy much.) He has a very stressful job that has him traveling way more than when we were married. And sometimes jerky guy says stuff that is mean. If it's small hurt, he'll usually apologize on the spot or call me later. If it's bigger and he doesn't, I can now call him and ask him if he's okay because he wasn't his usual nice guy. That usually brings us to a good air-cleaning conversation. And a sincere apology. And then Mr. Pleasant returns.
And guess what? Sometimes it's ME who's the jerk. And he can safely call me out for being overreactive without worrying that I will go off on him.
But I had 2 years of great practice and working with Laurie (a great DB coach here) to change how I reacted to situations and button pushing.
You can do this.
He's practically telling you that he's watching and okay coming around to this different you. Make it comfortable to be around you and your D.
As long as you keep the mantra "NO EXPECTATIONS" you will be okay. Don't expect nice guy to come around for good. He's testing you. So drop that rope and just continue doing your Musey things.
What are you doing to pursue your own interests and keeping your PMA up? (I love reading how you guys do this...)
I am treated like an unwanted customer,
LOL, that's a great observation. Don't take it personally. Remember, he needs his space. But what you don't realize yet? So do you... time and space is your very best friend right now. So optimize this.
Keep going. You're doing a great job.
Betsey
p.s. I just realized something and have to ask:
Yesterday I called him. I had to ask him to drop off something of mine.
Was there an ulterior motive on your part for making this request? Or was it necessary? Because this horse can sense hidden agendas... even if it was necessary, he might see this as pursuit and manipulation on your part. Capisce?
Oh wow peeps....thanks for the advice, ideas and supportive comments. I feel like I'm a bit of a loose cannon today, but I refuse to pick up the phone. I will not call him, and be that sad person. I can be sad on my own, but I'm not calling to let him know that.
If it is true that he is practically telling me that he is open to a calmer and different me, then I will be that person!
And yes, I really did have to call him. I have our dog right now, but H has the freezer full of frozen raw food, and I am almost out.
I guess I could have just texted, but I thought a warmer friendly tone to my request would be better. What I got was a cold polite stranger...but he did call to apologize, so maybe I did do it right?
Oh someone else asked, what am I doing? I go to yoga, go out with friends, this week I am on call so am a little sleep deprived.
I'll admit, todY I wanted to call him up and let him have it. I didn't. Instead I had the conversation in my head, got mad, got upset, It felt good to put my feelings into words, say them aloud and then tried to let it all go.
He called me after work, just to see how my day was. I was surprised to hear from him. He sounded "warm". And instead of the usual brush off of, " I'll talk to you later," he said, "Good, I just wanted to check up on you.....and I will check up on you tomorrow"
Hmmm....skittish horse, be still.
LOL MUSE! I love the skittish horse line, that is the first good laugh I've had all day.
You are gaining your sense of humor, that is a fab-u-lous sign that your are healing. Awesome.
He's practically telling you that he's watching and okay coming around to this different you. Make it comfortable to be around you and your D.
As long as you keep the mantra "NO EXPECTATIONS" you will be okay. Don't expect nice guy to come around for good. He's testing you. So drop that rope and just continue doing your Musey things.
I think I read this 10x last night. No matter how much Counselling I've done, nothing tells me the how to, of working things out. I love my counselor, he's awesome and he helps me work on issues, but the step by step of solution oriented results has evaded me.
And as funny as this may be, I have dealt with horses (from evil ponies to big warmbloods) most of my life. I applied everything I knew about horses to being a parent, my D is a great kid. And now I am using it, and the practicality of what i am learning here, to how I think about my M and how to try and get it going in the direction I would like it to go.
It may sound strange but calm, patience, never chase, reward any small step in the direction you want to go, are the foundations of building trust and a bond, with a partner (horse or otherwise I guess).
Let's see if he calls today, and let's see if he remembers the movie on Sunday.
Betsey has given you great advice and I couldn't agree more with this: That being said, it is imperative (and I cannot stress this enough), that you stifle any negative reactions to jerkiness. If you have to comment on stuff that hurts, just say "OUCH". And walk away.
You're working on a new R, you don't want the old one back so reacting as you had in the past will only get you the old R. This has been the most difficult part of my H and I working out way back to each other, dialing down my emotions, turning off my mouth and turning on my brain.
That's why time and space is your friend. Use it wisely.
Muse,
I think your horse analogy is absolutely perfect. Be as patient with him as you are with your four legged friends.
Bug is absolutely, 100% correct that you don't want that old R with him. It's what drove him to leave. The new you is going to be patient and understanding. Sounds like you're already like this with your D, so why not him?
but the step by step of solution oriented results has evaded me
LOL, I totally understand!
I don't know if this is your kind of thing, but I'm typically an uber organized person. I like the mechanics of "IF THIS, THEN THAT". I often find that although I don't see the answers while I'm going through things, I can see them clearly when reading them later.
Laurie (my DB coach) had me keep a solutions journal. I would keep track of what I did and any reactions (my XH and my girls), neutral, negative or positive. THEN things became crystal clear to me. It became so helpful, because then I could clearly see how much my backslides cost me. If you want to know measurements, it typically cost me 2 weeks to regain the ground that I lost by screwing up and reverting to my previous behaviors. Oh yeah, my #1 behavior in screwing up was to call him up and ream him for whatever pissed me off. Which was pretty much everything. I laid the guilt on, and then we had a Mexican standoff for the 2 weeks. I hated losing that time and momentum, and I most hated that I was reinforcing to him his belief that I would never change.
It didn't mean that he didn't need to change too. But your H and my XH were the ones that left, so that means they are going to be the most critical of the entire process.
MAKE THE MOST OUT OF EVERY INTERACTION YOU HAVE.
Once I committed myself to eliminating those backsliding behaviors, I gained ground quickly. And it became easier to do. It helped me in my other Rs as well, especially at work. Because I became much better at listening to what others told me, I stopped trying to prove I was right. (Besides, that's exhausting. As well as boring. Who wants to be with someone who's always right?)
You might think this is funny, but I had to DB my D19 this summer. Our R has changed since she left home, and I was lamenting it. One of my pals down in surviving reminded me that I had the skills to get us out of that pattern. Who'd have thunk? And why didn't I think of that first? Once I did, she worked on her end, and we're back to being close.
So these skills translate well to every R you have. They're good for you. Just like broccoli.
BTW, if he doesn't remember the movies on Sunday, zip the lip! This is your 180, right? Don't punish him. Remember the horse.
Go you!
Betsey
Labug - that statement really hits home. I do not want the old R back. I won't go back to it. I want new and better. Thank you.
And Betsey....wow. Thank you
You're welcome. I come back because I dig your attitude and analogy skills. You get it, and you're seeing results from your efforts. I admire that in a person.
No matter what happens, Muse, you're going to come out fine.
Keep on keepin' on!
I am going to assume this is where the testing part comes in. H usually calls me right after work....that was three hours ago...no call. I went to Hot Yoga...still no call.
A. He doesn't want to talk to me
B. He forgot
C. Fell asleep
D. Busy
They all fall under, "beyond my control."
I'm NOT calling him!
I post on this thread, not just to get advice but because I can pour out my insecurities here, and hopefully take away some of their power, so that I don't do stupid stuff.
I really want to change. I don't want to be that angry person anymore. I don't want to be that wife who calls and b***hes at her husband at work.
But dammit, it hurts when I am brushed off or just a side note to him. It hurts to think he forgot about me.
You're mindreading, that will keep you stuck. Stop making stories up in your mind and then you react based on that.
There could be many reasons why he didn't call.
Bug,
You beat me to the punch! Thanks!
Muse, you gotta get out of the habit of focusing on HIM. Stop it!
It's Friday night. You're a new woman. You gotta employ the new woman thinking. I'll help, since I'm eating my yummy taco salad in front of the baseball game (my perfect evening sans kids):
1. You don't sit around on a Friday night. Or at least admit that. A new age woman does NOT sit around and pine away next to the phone. Go to the mall. You know they sell movie tickets individually, right?
2. You start reconnecting with your girlfriends. You know, the ones who took a backseat when you got married? You make plans earlier in the week to get a social life. What's that hot yoga for anyway? Oh yeah, so you feel good about you.
3. If they can't do it, paint your house. Scrap book. Make Christmas presents. Go to farmers markets. Take French cuisine classes. Learn how to do woodworking.
Get busy with your GAL stuff. For goodness sake, stop looking at his train wreck and drop the expectations! Change this stuff up now!
Discover and celebrate the individual you were before him... You'll feel better about yourself no matter what happens. It's liberating. And damned attractive in a person.
Now, what's the plan for the rest of the weekend?
Betsey
P.s. It better not include anything with your H....
Think of all those things you've wanted to do and maybe just weren't H's cup o'tea.
I started riding my bike more, started a yoga, meditation practice (what a gift) have gone on trips, big and small, retreats, overfilled my garage with furniture to repurpose...
And going to the movies by yourself is the greatest but don't go on a date night, at least not yet. I love going by myself, matinees are fun.
If you like group things, check out Meet-up.
Just get out there!
Ok, I can post the good I do, I had better be able to post the bad.
I called him. I know i know. Bad idea.
He forgot, and when he realized it, he felt guilty and blew up. I didn't help. He made me cry. He threw a lot of unjust things at me, twisted words I hadn't even uttered and told me I was callng him a liar. (I hadn't) He said he was "out" because I had made him choose in or out (I hadn't), and that he felt that every time he spoke to me I was begging him to come home (I'm not I swear).
He calmed down, we spoke for a bit, he apologized for his harsh words and then we had a conversation mostly about he feels, and how maybe he is taking things the wring way He would like for us to talk further, he offered to come by this morning, but I said no I need a day to get my thoughts together. So, he said, if I want, he will make time for me on Sunday and we can talk then.
I think I undid all the hard work I had done in this last week. It was stupid.
Ok. Back to square one I guess.
I'm heading out for the day with a girlfriend, then there is beer and applies planned. Tomorrow I am drywalling and hopefully painting. We have a four level home, and tore out the third level last year to renovate into a living space for our D. No movies this weekend, I am going to try and keep my mind elsewhere.
Dammit. I want to change, that last night was exactly what I didn't want, it's how I have reacted in the past (except I would have yelled back, instead of quietly spoken, I would have hurled nasty things back, I didn't.....come to think of it, when I didn't fight dirty, the fight ended in about 5 minutes)
Ok.....keep busy....no more waiting and every time I want to call him, I am going to do 10 squats. I should have a backside of steel in about a week.
Muse,
It's a hard thing to not let your emotions get the best of you in times like this. This is very hard for me as well, something I am trying to retrain. There were times when the only way I could get any reaction out of my H was to be highly emotional. So you backslid, eh, we all do.
Just go back and reread your post and notice all the very positive things that you did regarding your behavior and reactions. I saw a LOT of positives. Hang tough!
Muse,
Well, I'm not going to give you a free pass on your backslide. They happen, and you're going to have to put your big girl pants on now and deal with the fallout.
You're not going to like this, but there is a good chance he apologized because you didn't react, but I'd venture a guess that it rang hollow with you. It did with me. I recognize this path well. He did it to alleviate his guilt.
Let me spell it out for you. You really don't want a broken, guilty man back. He's broken, and you're not doing your part to help matters. You call him to manage YOUR anxiety. You have to find another outlet to do that. You'll never win the war if you continue to make these kind of backslides.
Now you get to see how long it takes to get back the ground you lost today.
Squats sound like a good plan if you want buns of steel. But you should make a list of other things that make YOU happy to occupy your time. If the drywall is what you need to do, go for it.
For the record, I'm glad you didn't slam him. That IS progress. But understand he's not going to see that. Right now he's grading you on the bigger stuff. Bigger stuff with higher stakes.
Pud this goes for you too. You're both old and wise enough to learn from mistakes and be the bigger person. If you really want to get another chance, you're going to have to earn it. The hard way. Restraint is something you can do... You're not impulsive little girls anymore.
Sorry for the spanking. I just want you to succeed. You have to help yourselves.
Be good! :-)
Betsey
UD,
I really dislike this line "you're going to have to put your big girl panties"<--it is so overused, lol.
Anyhoo, yes that's exactly why we are here because we run on emotions right now and are retraining our minds. Impulses run strong when emotions are high. I feel like it was being invalidated and we have a right to eff up and make mistakes. So we messed up, we learn, we grow. My point was so she messed up, now move forward.
Thanks for the post. Pud
I really appreciate the you did it, move on AND the you messed up, now grow up and deal with it posts! I really do. I know I messed up. And I know it's going to take weeks if not longer to make up that ground again.
I stayed at my girlfriends house last night. I turned off my phone and just enjoyed wine (and whine lol) with her. It was good for me, and got me regrounded.
Guess who just popped by 15 minutes ago to say hi and see how I am?
I didn't utter one word about our R, S or M. I really didn't know what to say, so I pasted a smile on my face and let him lead the conversation, while we had tea.
I do believe he left here a little puzzled. I can't get in trouble if I say nothing right? But I was cheerful.
Interestingly though, he did not refer to his friends place as home, but as "Joe's place." For 54 days it has been "home," and he has been sure to hammer me with that so that I understand our house is no longer home.
I have learned my lesson, I won't let my anxiety get the better of me again. I'm a little bit humbled right now. I will make sure this lesson sticks.
Just being able to write this stuff here is good!
I'm glad you saw the love in my spanking.
I was here long ago and can see the potholes and obstacles a little more clearly from this perspective.
I screwed up plenty too. I don't know if my backslides we're the reason my XH chose not to give me a second chance. So I don't want you to have to wonder the same thing. I had 2 years until he filed... You may not have that long.
Puzzled is good. At least for now. What you need right now is time and consistently good behavior and words. You can do this, Muse. I can see that you want to learn. Really. So if I see the spiral again beforehand, I'll try to yell "Danger, Will Robinson!" before you shoot yourself in the foot. I know it's tempting to want to have things go your way more often. I really do. But in his eyes, you've already been in charge. He wants a turn with the reins now.
Pud, that cliche may be overused, but the other option was to use the lingo from hanging around volleyball coaches for the past 8 years. That wouldn't have been as nice. Muse got the drift. And I hope you do too.
Muse, my XH still calls my house home. He's been gone 10+ years, and we've been divorced for 8. I still kind of wonder why... I could understand if he was renting somewhere, but he isn't. I think at some level his heart is still here. Even if he's had a GF for 2 years. You just can't get caught up in mind reading. It doesn't serve a purpose, and it also doesn't get you closer to him.
Which is the whole point of being here, right? You want to do and say things that draw him closer to you. Make that your mantra with every thing you do.
Cheering for you!
Betsey
So as of today, we are on very polite and professional communication. But I get it, it's going to take a few weeks to begin to regain any ground.
Today I received a text asking me bout my day and if an expected package arrived.
I didn't see it until an hour later, when I noticed that he had also called twice.
I responded by text that I had had a good day and yes the package arrived.
He said, yay, will be by tomorrow to pick it up.
I have not responded, and am unsure if I should. I am also unsure if I have been too available and should try to not be here tomorrow? I can go to yoga, or take the dog to the park.
I do not want to make another mistake!
What I would do, Muse...
I would send him a text saying you won't be home tomorrow because 'you have things to do' but that you can leave it on the porch for him to pick up. Make him wonder!
I so dislike games, I doubt it will make him wonder at all, but my judgement is apparently less than stellar right now.
I'm going to try something new and think on this overnight. I can send him something in the morning to that effect.
Oh, well you already had the thing to do, yoga, walk dog, it was only a suggestion on how to approach, not a game. Just to give you the confidence to pull it off for real.
hang in there muse!
I appreciate the very good idea, and I actually typed up the text, but then thought better of it, as it doesn't feel natural to me.
Let's see how today goes, H didn't mention a time, so I left the package by the front door and have things to do after work. I called a GF up and we are going to take our dogs out to the park and have coffee.
If something doesn't feel authentic, don't do it. You made the right choice for you.
That being said, he doesn't need to know what you do with every minute of your life, so don't feel you need to tell him.
Absolutely! What labug says^^^
I'm glad you figured it out for yourself Muse.
H called me yesterday at noon, to see how my day was going and confirm that he would pick up the package and FINALLY drop off food for our dog. H now seems to refer to where he is staying as "Joe's House" rather then "Home" which always made me cringe.
The food was in the freezer when I got home, but only enough for 6 days, not the 3 weeks worth that I had asked for.
I am trying. No calling, texting or emailing.
My counselor says H has a "hair trigger" in that the push and pull of our relationship has him hyper-reactive. I move to him, he runs away. He moves to me, I typically push to hard too fast, he runs away.
I know I mindread a bit, but I wonder, why only enough food for 6 days? Why the call to tell me he was bringing it, when he just could have texted or emailed?
When I got up today, I didn't immediately check my phone to see if H had called or texted, I actually almost forgot it today.
It felt good to know, that I am starting to get control of my emotions.
Hey Muse,
Sorry it's been awhile.. My D16 had her wisdom teeth yanked on Monday, and life has been busy with her and work. I haven't had time to think, let alone write.
Great job catching yourself. Instead of mind reading, why don't you ask why 6 days instead of 3 weeks? Warning, you may not like his answer so gird your loins. Listen and hang up. If he says anything that might make you want to react, invoke the 24 hour rule.
Good job...
Betsey
I think I am just "musing" about the why's. I don't think the reasons matter.
Long game, big picture.
I will not make my previous mistake again, as I suspect it cost me one of the few chances I am going to get.
I will not let the stupid little things I do to overthink and then overreact, get to me.
H is house sitting in a different town for three weeks. At least it gets him out of the clutches of former friends who haven ulterior agenda for H.
I have carpet being laid on Saturday, there is a lot of prep work to do before they get here. I am contemplating asking H to help me do the prep work. H loves being helpful, loves being the guy who solved the problem.....I haven't let him be the hero in a long time, it is one of our issues.
I have until Friday to ask, so is this a bad idea? Too soon? Will he think I am pushing?
And again, I will not repeat my mistakes!
Muse,
No advice here. Use your intuition.
My XH also likes being helpful. But there are times that I guess he doesn't feel like being that guy and occasionally lashes out at me and tells me to hire a handyman. LOL. So tread carefully?
I dunno. That's kind of a big job. Is there a chance he can use the resentment against you? I might want to stick to offering a fun and safe place for him to be with you that doesn't look like work. Ya know? Light, breezy and easy?
Ok, so I lied. Apparently I did offer advice. But this is a case where you have to be the judge. It could go either way.
Are you saying that friends are encouraging the split? Tell us more... And who exactly.
Betsey
We had a group of four couples. I became extremely close to one of the women, K. Her H is extremely possessive and jealous, he destroyed our friendship. As things were going downhill he was essentially whispering things in my H's ear. Fanning the flames. Now my H mentions things here and there, I know where the comments came from and who said them. All of this because A wants his W under lock and key, but at the same time wants to keep his BF. It's schoolyard BS.
I can't fight that, so I choose to say nothing or non committal oh yeahs.
H is taking our D out tonight. If I can work it into the conversation over coffee when they get back, I am going to ask for help. A purpose event where our M is not in the spotlight, maybe we can just focus on sow thing else with no stress on us.
H is taking our D out tonight. If I can work it into the conversation over coffee when they get back, I am going to ask for help. A purpose event where our M is not in the spotlight, maybe we can just focus on sow thing else with no stress on us.
That sounds reasonable. Light and breezy...
Good luck!
So it would seem I am making a family dinner....not sure how that came about, but H said he would be "home" in an hour with our D. And we are back to him texting me daily to see how my day was.
Ok....house tidied, dinner on, out of my work clothes and there will be no conversation more complicated than I bought groceries today!
Even if no one reads this....I consider this my ongoing journal, my ups and downs...so those of you that read, shake your head and offer adviceor just chime in.....thank you!
I hope one day I can return the favour, when I learn enough myself!
Muse back on 9/2, you lost it with H, and the next day he was a brick wall, back and forth.
Its a short 24 days later, and you've come a long way... Just wanted you to keep perspective that it's barely been 3 weeks. If you have dinner, keep it light, fun. Good luck!
Dinner survived. I didn't make a single mistake. I threw out the offer of hot food, but he didn't answer....i just cooked Imagine my shock when I turned around to say something to my D and H was standing there instead...he scared the hell out of me, and found it quite funny. Ok, I did too, once my heart stopped pounding.
Dinner was quick, he raided all of my fudge!!, agreed to Saturday and left on a cheery note (no hug this time though)
Ok.....back to regaining lost ground....inch by inch
I'm glad you think this has been quick Jon.....for me this has been a million years, and for someone with no patience, a million years is a really long time.
Nice job! (except for losing all your fudge)
I told someone the other day that it has been 6 weeks for me, and feels like at LEAST a year; I totally get it.
I'm with you - just working on lost ground, feels like centimeter by centimeter.
Muse, stop beating yourself up, it does nothing for you other than make you more fearful. Let it go. Sometimes we have to do something many times before we actually learn the lesson. It's OK. Keep moving forward, but know the path is not linear.
but know the path is not linear
Boy, is this the truth! There are way too many detours, jags, and hairpin curves to say that any of this is straight forward!
Muse, one little tidbit - the part about he didn't hug you. Those expectations are seeping out - best to stifle them and not expect ANYTHING.
Otherwise, have a good weekend!
Betsey
Muse, your dinners and baking sounds so awesomely tasty!
I'll bet deep down he really appreciates that side of you.
I am in the same impatience boat as you, when a few days feels like a million.
You are moving the needle on the meter, even if it is in the smallest increments. You are making progress, I see it!!!
In response to a couple of things. I really wasn't beating myself up, it was a good evening. I actually slept well for a change. As for the hug, it wasn't expected, I am just making a note of it.
I am starting to see the pattern. We have a good evening, I get upset as he's leaving, he runs away, I get more upset, the fight is on and we back track.
I noted no hug as this is where I am usually upset, but I wasn't. I simply wished him a good night and locked the door behind him. According to our pattern, I should be calling him upset and angry that he won't just come home and it comes through in everything I say and do, even if I don't say the actual words.
After the last round, I am trying something different.
He texted later last night to say he had a nice time. I told him it was nice to have him over and left it at that.
If nothing else, it's progress for me!
I should also say....you guys probably see the pitfalls miles before I do....so any heads up is a good thing!
Only because we went to boot camp a few times before you did...
Glad you got positive feedback. Now you have some good notes for your solutions journal. Sit back and be patient.
BTW, the more you practice patience, the easier it gets. It's just hard when you're in the middle of changes that don't come naturally. Give it time. Timing is every bit as important as the actual execution of the change. Slow and steady wins the race.
You can do it.
Well another weekend done. H came over on Saturday, helped me with some computer issues, we had coffee and discussed nothing heavier than the weather.
H was going to come by today, as we are swapping vehicles. Something came up, so I had to cancel. He texted me a couple of times and I called him to ask about his day. He had a good day, and so did I. Last year our computer as well as our backup died. We lost years worth of pictures, family, trips, pets, everything. Today I found a collection of discs that had hundreds of pics. I spent the afternoon seeing my D's birthdays, Christmases, several pets that are now gone, and yes, a lot of family photos.
I have so many beautiful memories, and they made me happy, even though they made me cry too. I'm just so happy to have even a portion of my lost pictures back.
H is coming by tomorrow to trade vehicles, I offered to show him what I found, I am not sure if he will or not, but that's ok...I feel a little more connected to my past, which is going to help ground me in the here and now, and that can only help me move into my future.
Oh..and I am down over 20lbs...nice to see my waistline again
I wouldn't try to show him the photos, other than to say, Hey! Look what I found!
Ditto what Bug said!
When I was separated, my now D19 pulled out our old wedding video. Naturally, it made me cry. I wound up telling him about all the wonderful people who attended and just commented how happy it made me. It was not received well - he felt it was another attempt at wrangling guilt. I can't remember how long that one took me to overcome (see setbacks, earlier).
You'll have to get much further in the healing process to make any heartfelt comments to him. Until you know you're actually at that point, you're not there yet.
It's Monday, so I'll just say stick to the course and go you!
Betsey
p.s. Congrats on the weight loss! No matter the cause, it's always a boon when it serves you well!
Well he knows where they are. I won't bring it up again. Not sure when I will next see him as work is keeping me busy. But he is going to spend the evening with our D.
I definitely see a change in how I am responding to my H.
I have also been in contact with our counselor, who knows us better than anyone. He says, sometimes you need to step back, and sometimes you need to shake things up....it's all in the timing....and if not done right an go drastically wrong.
Using his suggestion, when H came over on Monday, we talked about minor things, I didn't bring up the photos, but I know he looked through them as my laptop was on.
At the endi asked him how he was doing, he said he was good, he asked me how I was, I said, good days, bad days, but I miss you. He said, I miss you too, but this separation had to happen. I agreed with him (which by the look n his face surprised him). He gave me a big hug, a real warm hug when he left.
He called me on the way back to where he is staying to "return my call" I hadn't called, but thanked him for it anyways. He said he enjoyed spending time with us, I told him we did as well and good night
This morning he called me to let me know he had forgotten his phone at home, just in case I tried to get ahold of him, "not that you would text me or anything". That comment sounded like he was a bit put out that I hadn't called him.
I am getting to the point where I don't cry every time I get off the phone, or plan my life around when he may come by. He is supposed to come by after work today to take our D out. I work late. I don't plan on being here, and when I am off, I am going to the library...I have homework to do.
I must say, the call surprised me.
GO YOU!
Great post, Muse!
See, you CAN do this!
Keep up the good work--
Betsey
This sounds wonderful Muse! Funny to see how he is calling now, really for no reason.
I like it! You are doing a fantastic job. Keep it up, stay strong.
I am starting to find myself again. Weight is coming off, I am doing my hair and putting on minimal makeup when I go to work (I live in OR scrubs), and saying "screw it" I'm going to spend a bit of money on myself. My self confidence/esteem is coming back.
I know I still want my marriage to work...but I don't want the old one back.
Watch out H....the woman you fell in love with, is slowly finding her way back to the surface!
Muse - awesome for you! I feel like I'm maybe a month behind you, and I can't wait, you gave me a boost today!
I am starting to find myself again. Weight is coming off, I am doing my hair and putting on minimal makeup when I go to work (I live in OR scrubs), and saying "screw it" I'm going to spend a bit of money on myself. My self confidence/esteem is coming back.
I know I still want my marriage to work...but I don't want the old one back.
Watch out H....the woman you fell in love with, is slowly finding her way back to the surface!
Awesome Muse!
This is exactly how I am starting to feel too! All of the above. It's wonderful to feel like YOU again, ain't it?
So, seeing my pattern, this is about where I get clingy and needy...and I start phoning. Yes I am feeling that neediness...I can admit it. But recognizing the pattern are makes it easier to control it.
I miss him something awful tonight, (Learned from my mistake, won't repeat it), so I will write it here. I am going to do some laundry, pet my dog, watch Greys Anatomy and go to bed. No phone calls, no texts, no email.
This is our longest stretch of no communication. I know he is hanging onto the advice of the Dickmans (as I call them and a play on of their names)...it should be interesting to see how long it takes him to contact me.
Any guesses?
Oh and for humours sake, I finally have a comeback to Betsey's comment of. "Put on your big girl panties.
"Never mind panties, I'm going to lace up my combat boots and go commando!"
Muse,
More than half of any problem that requires action is actually recognizing where it IS a problem. Good for you.
Just remember that you miss the person who treated you well - not the person who's here right now. It's totally understandable. Heck, I miss the old XH he used to be, and he probably says the same about me. The one thing that remains constant is change. You just have to go on faith that he's noticing your changes and reevaluating his choices based on what he sees. So just keep going.
I also recognize my own traps - in my case, I need to get out and exercise more. I bought a Fit Bit this week and it arrived yesterday. So instead of sitting on the couch and snacking, I'm going to ride the exercise bike that I also bought and get busy. It's just good for us to develop new habits that work for us and leave old bad habits behind. And what a sense of accomplishment!
LOL love the commando and combat boots! Great visual! You could also wear a thong and flip your H off.
But that will probably set you back some.
Good luck this weekend! Hope you have a list of stuff you can do that will take your mind off doing the things that will take you away from your long term goals.
Betsey
"The one thing that remains constant is change. You just have to go on faith that he's noticing your changes and reevaluating his choices based on what he sees."
Here is my question....how can he notice my changes if he isn't seeing me?
"The one thing that remains constant is change. You just have to go on faith that he's noticing your changes and reevaluating his choices based on what he sees."
Here is my question....how can he notice my changes if he isn't seeing me?
If your changes are genuine then they represent the new you which will be apparent in
every interaction you have,
whenever you are able to have one. Work on being the best version of YOU - focus on THAT - and you won't have to worry about your changes being noticed. In time, they will be. By everyone.
I know the short term can seem excruciatingly important, as if time is working against you, but this is a marathon, not a sprint. I know that's a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason.
Do the work. Be who YOU want to be, and don't let anyONE or anyTHING get in your way. Be true to yourself, be respectable, be honorable...be someone only a fool would leave.
Be patient.
-PM
". Be true to yourself, be respectable, be honorable...be someone only a fool would leave."
I am trying. I no longer call him upset or angry. I keep all contact brief and polite. I am getting out and relearning how to live my life. I don't know what else to do other than that.
Good conversation today. A few weeks ago, I told H that when he calls/picks up the phone, that he is a grouch, and it puts me on my guard. He said, he is always worried that I am going to get angry/upset.
I have maintained my cheery disposition, today he called just to discuss the dog and a couple other functional issues. I told him about my already zany day, laughed and asked about his.
Then I got off the phone.
I think I surprised him.
If there is a chance, I know this is how it's going to happen. If not....then at least I will have the pleasure of confusing him every now and then. I forgot how fun that can be to do...and how much H always enjoyed me surprising him every. Ow and then.
Off to continue with my evil plan!
I forgot to mention...when he called, he seemed warm and genuinely happy to speak to me.
Hi All,
I would first like to take a moment to thank each and every person who has read through my personal hell, added a comment, an ass kicking, support and generally just commisterated.
I suspect this will be my last posting for a while.
Two days ago, while going through my stack of lost photos, I came across an unmarked CD. My H had apparently downloaded the pics from his phone sometime last year.
He has been engaging in online activities with assorted women, getting "photos" and essentially replacing me with a host of other women.
Today I called him on it. I deserve respect, I deserve to be loved, honoured and cherished.
He informed me that he had ALWAYS been faithful. I pointed out his 2008-2009 affair, the assorted cybersluts at that time as well, his "chats" with one of my girlfriends in May, and I suspect several other in the last few years.
He said that he considered it was only cheating if he slept with them. I told him cheating is doing anything you would not want your spouse to see. Anytime you step over that line, you are disrespecting your wife, whom you profess to love. He admitted that he had then stepped over the line A LOT in the last few years, and that he had done it, because it made him feel good.
I WAS ANGRY!
I told him that I would happily have engaged in whatever (I am in no way a prude) I am his wife and love him. H loves the excitement of something new and shiny....he admitted that I would most likely never be enough for him.
I told him to enjoy his new and shiny life, hope the fantasy of it, is everything he hoped it would be.
I know I got off the phone with him feeling about 2 inches tall.
I'm done.
But I wanted to thank this wonderful site for everything I have learned.
I wish each one of you the best of luck, and hope your path has a better ending than mine!
So sorry to hear this Muse.
I can completely understand and respect your decision here.
I wish you the best. Pud
Awww, Muse, I'm so sorry. You deserve a big hug. As if this isn't hard enough without those kinds of surprises.
If you need some navigation through surviving, come join us on that forum. Our focus is obviously on other things, but we can at least offer you support.
Take good care of yourself and your D.
Betsey