Hi there. Brand new to the forum. Some very refreshing stuff here. Thanks to everyone who contributes, looks like thre is a lot to learn but we all have come from similar places.
As for me, I am trying to save my 17 yr marriage. We've been in and out of counseling for 3 years now. Each time I didn't understand a thing, and thought I made changes that I needed to, but still didn't "get it". I am now "getting it" and in the process of changing myself for the better me.
We have 2 wonderful daughters. Both our families live in the same town (moms, dads, bro's, neices and nephews for both of us). So there is a lot of support. We are in counseling together and currently have been separated for 6 weeks.
More to come...once I get the DB admin approval
Had our second date. W asked to go golf with her. We haven't done that since last year (and we belong to a country club). We had a great time. She also asked me to goto dinner after. I tried to make every convo about her (you you you) and kept "I" out of it. I think it went great. Best thing, it came normally.
I started to ween myself off of lexapro too. I have anxiety. But I think I am going to start back on it full time. This weekend was tough, but managed to keep my cool.
I actually thought that Divorse Busting is reading for people that aren't yet thinking about D or Separation. so I started with Divorse Remedy. DB = self help guide to making a marriage work that probably everyone should read, DR = when the chit hits teh fan and you REALLY need the help? Amirite?
I actually thought that Divorse Busting is reading for people that aren't yet thinking about D or Separation. so I started with Divorse Remedy. DB = self help guide to making a marriage work that probably everyone should read, DR = when the chit hits teh fan and you REALLY need the help? Amirite?
I would say yes that is a good enough explanation.
DR is what I would suggest most people here to read, although I read both of them.
From another thread, although moderators more than likely can edit, there are not very many mods here, and they are more concerned with the TOS and keeping the board running than making it smoother for posters especially newbies.
UBB and this board in particular has its own traits and they removed the editing function from users a few years ago.
So it is possible that it is different for mods too.
Welcome to DB and keep posting so you get off of moderation.
Had our second date. W asked to go golf with her. We haven't done that since last year (and we belong to a country club). We had a great time. She also asked me to goto dinner after. I tried to make every convo about her (you you you) and kept "I" out of it. I think it went great. Best thing, it came normally.
I just want you to be prepared for what's likely ahead- in my sitch and in many others here the WAS initially showed what appeared to be interest in making things work including MC, dates, etc. But often they are well and truly done and they just do these things to "prove" that they "tried everything" but that the M is dead. The WAS is on their own journey and there's nothing you can do to speed them along. In fact, often when you try to fix things it just slows their journey down and distracts them from the work they need to do on themselves. That's why DB'ing pushes giving the WAS time and space.
I started to ween myself off of lexapro too. I have anxiety. But I think I am going to start back on it full time.
If you've only been S'd for 6 weeks then it's too soon to ween off of A/D meds. Discuss it with your PCP, but I suspect they will recommend staying on them at least a few more months.
W and I were also started to date in HS. Broke up twice in College (first time by my initiation, second time hers, I went back to her both times).
mathwichi, What anotherstander says make sense. How I interpret it is let her make all the advances and you none of them. Unless she initiates things, don't be the first to initiate things. If she does initiate them then go along with it. Does that make sense?
Have you read Sandi's rules on here? It's a set of guidelines to follow whilst she's apart from you and while she's working out what she wants in life.
Hope you have a nice weekend and find plenty to keep you occupied
Yes, I agree with her making the advances, and she is, finally. I know that she needs to feel like she can trust me, feel safe, , feel respected and loving by me, for her to open up. I am grateful that she is trying, but I won't let that steer me into my old self, I PROMISE. I will still grow to be leading these naturally.
Last night I got a text after my FIL's Bday dinner at her moms house stating that she had a good time with me. I replied in her same words that I agreed. Then this AM, she opened up and hugged me for the first time in 3 months. It is her 18th year as a teacher and she, and our kids, all started the first day of school today. I complimented her respectfully (hair and dress), and helped with the kids to get to school. My oldest daughter saw it her eyes lit up like the sunrise. I think W tried to hug me last night after dinner, but I think I made a sudden move that stopped her. I pretended like I didn't even realize what was happening.
tonight, She made dinner for all of us. I cannot wait as it has been 3 months since we ate as a family. We came to the agreement that we should still be separated (it has been 60 days t date and is what we initially agreed to with the counselor), but W wanted to still go a little slow. So I get 48 hours a week for now, at home, with W and kids. I will take it as a positive sign again.
Also, I couldn't break a long tradition. Each year I send flowers to W at her school. I almost didn't, as a lot of what I am reading states no gifts for the WAS. The card stated "Good luck with your 18th year, XYZ Grade School should be proud that you served them for so long". No "I love you, and the florist didn't put a signiture on it. So W had to ask me if I sent them. I had to laugh. But W thanked me for the beautiful spring flower setup and vase. I also complimented/admired her fpr staying with the same employer for so long and that this says a lot about your enjoyment for your job and the people that you work with. I am trying to make her realize that I do like the people that she works with. A while back I told her that I didn't like some of them, (some are divorsing and still iving with their spouces, but picking up guys everywhere they go). So I probably said some things I shouldn't have in the past.
This all sounds positve mathwichi
You're doing all the right things and she did appreciate the flowers so it was the rough thing to do
Don't beat yourself up about saying negative things about her collegueas. It's been said and it's over and done with now, so just let it lay low
Hope you have a good week, keep in touch
Last night's dinner went great. Then, some of the other kids and in laws of the family came over with their kids to have a "First day of School" treat. After everyone left I was in the living room and W went into the office for 3 hours. She was "doing e-mails and bills". I asked her if it was ok to sleep in the bed, she wanted me to sleep in a different room. Hmmm. That wasn't what I expected. I got grumpy and it was hard to hide it. I should just keep thinking that it was a positive move for her to just allow me to be in the same place and have dinner and some fun. Not the whole shebang....
What is it called when W does this:
Me: Hey hon, what are the sleeping arrangements tonight?
W: What do you want them to be?
Me: I'd like to stay in our bed?
W: Well, you've been staying on the couch on your dates here.
Me: OK, I will stay on the couch tonight.
Yes, I won't sleep in the bed when I am at home with the kids. I can't for some subconscious reason. This isn't the first time she's been bringing up the past. I hear this statement a lot "Well, you always do/did that". THAT was the old me. how can I communicate that I am NOT doing those things anymore?
"W, Yes, I did those things before, and I know how they must have sounded/felt to you. Doing those things didn't make me happy, and I don't think they made you happy either. I want the things we do and say to each other to be condusive of a wonderful, supporting, loving, caring, trusting marriage. ???whut else???"
So far on our nights together at home, W has been going into a different room. First night, she stated that she had her school work to do and bills. So she spent it in the office tapping away on the comuter. The second night, last night, I was reading in the living room while the kids were watching TV. W goes into the bedroom and turns on the TV and pokes at her smartphone. Ugh! What can I say to her?
"W, it seems to me that you want to be left alone when I am here, the two nights that I stayed at home with you are exapmles. Am I reading that right. I would like to be able to talk together for a little bit. Especially about the calendar, which you must have done at some point last night. It was one of the things I asked to do together. What do you think? Do you have any other ideas/comments about the times that I am here with you?"
I think she is saying to you that she wants you to sleep on the couch, I don't know why she said because that is always what you do. I wouldn't say anything to her about this. I've got the same problem with H. How can I tell him that I've changed and I want him to share the bad with me now? I can't as he's left! He did say to me that him leaving wasn't about him sleeping in a separate room or the lack of intimacy, but he was just unhappy.
We can't change the past. I do wish sometimes that we could turn back the clock and start all over knowing what I know now! It makes me sad as he never once said how much it was upsetting him that we were living as friends. He just let it ride until he could stand it no longer!
If she goes into the other room, she wants to be on her own and not have you pursuing her. I would leave her alone and if she wants to talk to you then let her initiate all contact with you. Believe me, it does work
Am I the only one commenting on this thread? Has anyone else got any ideas to say to Mathwichi? I'm only giving my 2 cents worth here, I may be wrong with the whole sitch so it's just my opinion.
Have you read men are from Mars, women are from venus? It may just be able to give you some insight as to why she's going off into another room to text on her phone and behaving the way she is at the mo.
I hope you're also reading DB/DR and Sandi's rules as they are there to help you along.
What is it called when W does this:
As far as I can tell it's called "answering your questions"
Me: Hey hon, what are the sleeping arrangements tonight?
W: What do you want them to be?
Me: I'd like to stay in our bed?
I would have made that last a statement rather than a question!
"W, Yes, I did those things before, and I know how they must have sounded/felt to you. Doing those things didn't make me happy, and I don't think they made you happy either. I want the things we do and say to each other to be condusive of a wonderful, supporting, loving, caring, trusting marriage. ???whut else???"
Stay away from the wordy explanations. Just say you don't like sleeping on the couch and are going to sleep in the bed from now on. Do less beta and more alpha
Hmmm, when the kids went to bed I went to her room door and told her that "I am going to bed, goodnight". She was sort of surprised, she even said "Already?!". It was early for me, but I've been getting more sleep every night that we are apart and luvin it!
It was sort of funny too. A little bit before this, we were in the kitchen. She was cooking BBQ for the next eve's dinner. I asked her if there was something that I could help her with. She asked me if I would cut the mellon. ABSOLUTELY! The kids were upstairs and they left their channel on the TV. W said "is this what you are watching?". I said "No, but is your program on that I should turn on. I know you like Castle, should I turn that on for you?" she says to me: "no, I haven't watched that for months now, I really don't like to watch TV, there is nothing on anymore".
After the mellon is all cut and fridged, I sit down to read in the living room, the kids come back down and watch their show. Barb retreats to her room with TV on and txtng. She doesn't like TV? She did that night.
I think you are right about her seeing if I would pursue her. Maybe that was the surprised look she gave when I told her I was going to bed.
tonight we have a counselor meeting together, I am sure this will come up..
Make sure that the MC is pro marriage as described in the DR book. If it isn't then you need to change straight away as this will cause more damage to the relationship you have already with her.
The couselor likes to hit up the past. Reminds me of the cheesless tunnels. Every time she and W do, my ego and confidence takes a hyoooge hit. They did it again last night, and W even stated that "It really wasn't a big deal". Then WTF did you bring it up. BUT the counselor did point out that we do have a big communication breakdown. And EACH of us has to work on it. Direct/Simple/Clear statements. Not "wishing", "thinking", communication. Whew.
So this AM I remembered the Cheeseless tunnel. I got to drop kids off at ice skating. The cashier told me that I could get 20 half hour sessions for $90. so I'd save $30. I txtd W that this deal was available and that I paid the regular $12. she calls me to discuss that we will do it next time. Cool. when I got to work, I e-mailed her and just said" Hey Hon, I really appreciate the call this am. Even if it was only for an ice skating deal. have a great day"
W used to call me all the time when we were going to work. That was something that made her feel good, and me ffeel good. We typically don't have time to talk when we are getting ready and getting the kids ready for school. so it was a pleasant break. We'll see if we continue this
Sounds positive Mathwichi
Let's hope it continues
Remember babysteps! Don't try to rush things. I know this from experience!
cont'd from yesterday's post.
I should have also stated the positive stuff that W was doing. She was reaching out and touching my arm while talking to me in the Counselor session. So another nice babystep imo. But she still likes to critisize me and belittle me. When she starts out sentences with "I don't want this to sound controlling or critisizing...", I stop her. I say "I don't want to hear it, right now, especially in a critical/belittling voice".
There are ways to say it in a opsitive voice (our counselor is going to teach us these things later actually). She's been thru this before a while back. Obv we both forgot about it.
I don't think she means to do it, it is almost subconscious. She has been the leader for quite some time, and that chit is gunna change.
I feel like I've been the leader in our marriage, always making the decisions. My H is now starting to take back the reins and even though he lives apart from me he is starting to tell me what to do. This is definitely a reverse to what he did before, but I don't like being told what to do and I'll probably be stubborn and do what I want. I'm like that with all relationships that I have, if I don't want to do it then I don't. I'm sure that you feel the same way about your W and I'm pleased that your MC/IC is helping you with this.
Incorporated hugging and kissing cheeks again. No I love you's just yet. also, she made this comment:
"Thank you for putting in so much effort and trying"
I made a simple response: "More to come"
We've been doing really great. No more not staying home either. Sandi's 37 is a great summary of the books I've been reading from Davis. Will definately be re-reading and keep growing.
Sounds great MW
Keep it up