W continues to live with OM - what to do?

No responses on my thread for three months. Here's the old one:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2302796&page=1
I am opening a new thread with a more pointed title in the hope of getting more feedback. Quick summary: I'm 49, wife, too. 3 kids between 7 and 9. A year ago W dropped the "I love you but I am..." bomb. In April she confessed a PA with a highschool flame. W and I have been together for nearly three decades. Her biggest criticisms:
- I do not "touch her soul", OM apparently does. I was curious what she meant by that but she refuses to tell me.
- I am too "brainy", she doesn't feel an emotional connection with me.
- I hadn't finished my education and was a stay-at-home-dad for the kids. Once she said a "houseman" is a loser for her.
In September she moved in a flat with OM and our kids. OM left his wife and two kids. Our house is empty since then. OM hasn't finished any education and earns less in a year than I do in a month.

180s I did:
- In March I moved to my university, 400 miles away. I finished my course with an A and found a job immediately. In the meantime I am very successful and earning above average, though still only half as much as W.
- I used to do little housework. My wife is a perfectionist and always had something to criticize. Now, when I am together with the kids, I am doing all the work myself.
- My relation to my kids is excellent. They tell me they would much rather stay with me in the house than in the flat with OM.
- I am now preparing a move back to the house. Unfortunately my profession involves a lot of travels. Right now I am on the eve of leaving for another stay far abroad.
- Hardly any talk about D with W. I haven't filed, she hasn't filed. She is acting very nicely, wants me to have success, applauds my professional progress, supports my moving back to town etc. There were hardly any arguments. One major exception: about two months ago I told her that the kids prefer to stay with me and that she should take into consideration that once I am back in the house that the kids staying with me may become a permanent situation if I can arrange it with a new job. One of our daughters came into the room and on the question with whom she would rather stay pointed at me immediately. W started sobbing.

Now my question to all readers: am I crazy in continuing with DBing? Do I allow cake-eating by accepting being "friends" for now? As Michelle has written in DR most people around me advocate a divorce. But I still think I am the "better choice", in fact better than ever. The kids are yearning for a reconciliation. But how to do a 180 on her core point of "not reaching her soul"? Probably listening to her carefully is all I can do. - How to increase my physical attractiveness? I have already lost 30 pounds. More plans I have:
- Start driving a car. Due to ecological considerations I have a total driving experience of 5000 km in 30 years. But organizing life with three kids without a car is tedious.
- Take dance lessons. Difficult since my schedule is unpredictable.
- Working out.
That's it for now. Now gotta pack my suitcase for a month on another continent.

Originally Posted By: longrun

Now my question to all readers: am I crazy in continuing with DBing?

DB'ing will help you whether you reconcile or not, so it's always a good idea to follow DB principals.

Quote:

Do I allow cake-eating by accepting being "friends" for now?

That's not cake-eating, cake-eating would be if she were living with you in a more typical husband-wife relationship while also carrying on with OM. In your case you're separated and she's living elsewhere with OM, so that's not cake-eating whether the two of you are friends or not. I think you should foster a friendly relationship with her regardless, because the two of you will always be co-parents.

Quote:

As Michelle has written in DR most people around me advocate a divorce. But I still think I am the "better choice", in fact better than ever. The kids are yearning for a reconciliation. But how to do a 180 on her core point of "not reaching her soul"?

Her comment sounds like a twist on the old "I love you but I'm not in love with you" line. Basically all you can do is work on yourself, do 180's on your faults and make yourself the spouse only a fool would leave. It sounds like you've already done a lot of work in that regard, so just keep it up.

Quote:

Probably listening to her carefully is all I can do.

That's not all you can do, but it's certainly a great thing to do. Listen without fixing. Validate her emotions.

Quote:

How to increase my physical attractiveness? I have already lost 30 pounds.

Good! Other things- whiten your teeth, get your hair done differently, wear cologne (or new cologne if you already do), change your wardrobe. The idea is to make her wonder what you're up to, and also to make you feel better about yourself.

HI, longrun,
Sorry you are here, but this is the best place you could have found for support.

Sounds like you are doing a lot of great 180s. Give yourself more time. Time for when you are back in your house. Then maybe you'll be around your W more for her to see your consistent changes.

Her A w OM is still rather new--even though you say it's been a year, they have only been living together for 5 months. Give it more time for the "infatuation" stage to wear off.

One thing--try not to put your kids in the middle of your R. Don't ask them to choose. You & your W need to work out what you think is best for them. They are too young to make that decision for themselves, nor should they ever be presented with the question "who would you rather...?" That forces them to choose sides which is not going to help your sitch.

Definitely keep DBing! Time will tell what the future will hold. DOn't try to predict it ahead of time.

Thanks for tuning in, AnotherStander. I respect your opinions a lot and have read many of your posts lately.

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander

Originally Posted By: longrun

Do I allow cake-eating by accepting being "friends" for now?

That's not cake-eating, cake-eating would be if she were living with you in a more typical husband-wife relationship while also carrying on with OM. In your case you're separated and she's living elsewhere with OM, so that's not cake-eating whether the two of you are friends or not. I think you should foster a friendly relationship with her regardless, because the two of you will always be co-parents.

Thanks for this clarification. Being friends with W is not difficult at all. She tells me she continues to "love" me - like a brother but not like a husband. She is all "nice" and "sweet" in her communication with me.

Quote:

Listen without fixing. Validate her emotions.

We rarely meet personally these days since I am busy with my job which is 400 miles away and right now I am on a different continent. I can't give much more space than that, LOL. Meanwhile W has left for a holiday trip to Scandinavia with OM and my/our kids.

littleGTO, thanks a lot for visiting my thread.

Originally Posted By: littleGTO

Give yourself more time. Time for when you are back in your house. Then maybe you'll be around your W more for her to see your consistent changes.

Thanks for this view. My wife can be very stubborn. Now that she has made her move I expect that she will try to cling to OM as long as possible to justify her decision.

Originally Posted By: littleGTO

Her A w OM is still rather new--even though you say it's been a year, they have only been living together for 5 months. Give it more time for the "infatuation" stage to wear off.

Thanks also for this perspective. If five months which feel like an eternity is "new" then I really have to be prepared for a long run. Actually I once talked to a lady during a train ride. I outlined my situation and she then told me that she married her husband in 1968. Her marriage was on the brink of breaking apart for years. Her husband had a PA for four years, she for three years - yet they didn't divorce, reconciled and are now glad that they have stayed together. She told me to wait for 3-4 years.

Originally Posted By: littleGTO

One thing--try not to put your kids in the middle of your R. Don't ask them to choose.

That's an area where I must improve. My self control isn't good enough yet when I am together with the kids and sometimes I have been venting my frustration about the situation.

Longrun, when your W says you don't "touch her soul" I think she means that she doesn't feel emotionally connected to you. I think that somehow she didn't feel she could trust you or get the support she needed from you, or whatever emotional connection means to her. Actually, that would be a good thing to figure out. What does emotional connection mean to her?

Work on building respect and admiration from her. Based on your post, it seems she lost some of that, too.

Hang in there, and thank you for posting on my thread. (((((())))))

longrun,
Thanks for posting on my thread too!

The train lady is right. The question for you (and me and everyone here) is how long will your W continue on this path before either she or you decides she's/you're done?

This is a rhetorical question since noone can answer this and everyone sitch is different. I know I won't be waiting around for 3-4 years for my H to see if OW is in fact still in the picture. I deserve a life and I guess I'm not that patient.

Hold onto hope, though. Patient and faith, I believe ar the answers.

I agree with Tori: You need to act in a way that will build her respect for you. This means setting and holding firm to your boundaries.

She'll never respect you (or fall back in love with you) if you don't respect yourself.

Search for some of Sandi2's posts for more on this.

Originally Posted By: tori2012

Longrun, when your W says you don't "touch her soul" I think she means that she doesn't feel emotionally connected to you.

That's right and that's the huge challenge for me. When our friendship started in the 1980ies it wasn't the "big bang". I knew she was into me, I also liked her - we kind of morphed into the romantic stage without a major infatuation on either side. My love grew over the years whereas she now says she never really loved me, at least never as much as she loves OM now. So I am facing a tremendous uphill battle, possibly really winning her heart for the first time.

Originally Posted By: tori2012

Work on building respect and admiration from her. Based on your post, it seems she lost some of that, too.

Yes, she says the years when I didn't manage to finish my education her feelings for me died a slow death. Funny thing is OM never finished any education - and all of a sudden it doesn't matter any more. And I was the "houseman loser" - OM is spending even more time in their joint flat than I did. Well, the WAS way has nothing to do with logic.

Longrun, if she married you, she was in love. The story about never having been in love is a typical WAS statement. That said, you two need to rekindle the love.

Don't compare yourself to the OM. He's just a "fix" for her, to cover up her real internal issues. The R with the OM will end. Focus on you. How can you be a better H, a better man?

Originally Posted By: tori2012

The R with the OM will end.

Intriguing that and how firmly you write that. Currently the situation seems to be bleak and hopeless, so this sentence as you wrote it never came to my mind. But hey, you could be right! Even if the OM R won't end in the foreseeable future I thank you for your boldness. Yes, I have to live "as if" - as if she will return the next day.

Quote:

Focus on you. How can you be a better H, a better man?

Two major points:
- I didn't show my wife how much she means to me. If we ever start piecing that's one area where I will try to improve a lot.
- I frequently was too stingy. A new house, three little kids - I often refused vacation suggestions she made. We achieved our financial goals but my wife had much less fun with the family than she wanted to have.

longrun,

I've often thought the acting "as if" can mean EITHER acting as if they will return OR acting as if they won't. Still not sure, but I am assuming the latter to help me detach. I would be way to needy and clingy if I thought H was coming back.

I agree that OM is meeting some need she had that she wasn't getting from you. It is hard to hear and hard to accept, but it is true. WHAT need was she missing from you???

It IS hard to "compete" w OM. I know I don't feel as though I have any chance against OW as he currently has her on a pedestal. BUT, I am working on me and trying to be positive and change things I know I needed to change. Try to meet his primary love languages (well, one of them anyway) as much as I can--Words of Affirmation (other was physical & I can't do much about that right now). What are your W's LLs?

It is not helpful to think about OM. He is insignificant. As in 95% of all As (okay, I'm making up the statistic, but it IS high) affairs end. You have to decide (not now) how long you are willing to be "in it" to save your M. I know I won't wait forever, but my M is worth A LOT and so is my family. Only YOU can decide for YOU.

Hey, longrun. Thank you for your support during the past couple of days.

I said the A will end bc that's the way it goes. So choose to think this way.

To me, "Acting as if" means acting as if you'll be successful in saving your marriage. It also means you act as if you're happy and self-assured, and you are making the best out of this situation. So be positive around her. Show your changes--and make sure these changes are sustainable in the long run.

Don't wait till you start piecing to show her what she means to you. You can be kind and helpful now.

Also, you mentioned she didn't like the fact that you didn't finish your education. Have you thought about the possibility of doing this?---FOR YOU? If you're happy with the income you have/could have on your own without the education, then great. But if not, maybe this is the time to plan for future studies.

By focusing on being a better person, you'll actually be helping your M.

Again Tori is spot on... she should write a book!

LR, my W said the same thing, that she never was in love with me. Yet she married me, and stayed committed for 29 years with few complaints. Of course it doesn't add up, but it their perception for now. There is nothing to be gained by trying to convince them otherwise.

Let her go. Build an exciting and fulfilling life for yourself. Doing this is not only the best way to cope, but it also makes us more attractive.

Originally Posted By: tori2012

I said the A will end bc that's the way it goes. So choose to think this way.

After a year no end in sight, so far. In fact she just spent winter holidays with OM and my/our kids in Scandinavia.

Originally Posted By: tori2012

Also, you mentioned she didn't like the fact that you didn't finish your education. Have you thought about the possibility of doing this?---FOR YOU?

I finished the last exam with an A - soon afterwards it was BD for me, a year ago.
I completed my thesis with an A - she announced PA with OM.
I started my career and I am already on international missions for a top company - she moved in with OM and my/our kids.
Currently I already earn more in a month than OM in a year and the gap will probably widen even more.

But somehow the detaching seems to work. Maybe I am taking it too far, I don't know. I feel numb towards her, just drifting along.

ForeverYoung, thanks for stopping by.

Originally Posted By: ForeverYoung

Build an exciting and fulfilling life for yourself.

ForeverYoung, I am currently on a business trip in Brazil. I have a 60-hour work week - but I squeezed in a visit of a carnival event, the parade of the Samba schools. Man, it was overwhelming. I was in the Sambodrome for nine hours. It was music, rhythm, colors all around.

Journal

Back from the two-month business trip. Brazil was just the right place to be, the people there are much more relaxed and humorous than in my home country.

In the meantime I have realized much of the suggestions of sgctxok: I have moved back to the city of my family and straddle between there and my workplace 500 miles away. Half the week I am in the office, the other half back at home with the kids. They are extremely happy that we can be together every week now, not only once every three months. The last piece of the puzzle still missing is a job in my city, then I could take the kids all the time. More than ever they emphasize how they would love to move back to the family home and not stay in the flat with WAS and OM.

No sign at all of any fading of the affair. While I was in Brazil detachment was easy. Now that I am back and W/OM are just three miles away it gets harder. I find it tough to project PMA towards W and got baited two or three times by negative statements of her. Sigh.

So: the state of M seems to be hopeless but at least I am enjoying my time with the kids tremendously.

Here's a great post by Accuray on cbtdad's thread, how to deal with a spouse's affair. I want to get back to it every time hope's fading too much.

Quote:

We use "love" to express a wide range of emotions. We love ice cream, we love dogs, we love our kids, we love our spouse. Each of those "loves" is different, right?

When people "fall in love", here's what happens:

Intrusive thinking (you can't stop thinking about the object of your affection)
Uncertainty about the relationship which leads to heartache
Buoyancy, as if walking on air, when there is reciprocation
An acute sensitivity to any acts or thoughts that could be interpreted favorably ("He wore that because he knew I would like it")
A total inability to be interested in more than one person at a time
All other concerns fall into the background
A remarkable ability to emphasize what is truly admirable in the beloved and avoid dwelling on the negative -- even to respond with a compassion for negative qualities and turn them into another positive attribute
Despite all the potential for pain, the feeling that love is supremely delightful and what makes life worth living

This is taken from the book ILYBINILWY and is based on a study by Tennov.

People everywhere experience almost exactly these same feelings, and it is completely intoxicating.

It's a drug. Tennov coined a term for it called "Limerence" and you can Google for that.

When people are in this phase, they are obsessed to the point that not much else matters. They lack the ability to make rational decisions, or to have compassion for those outside of their fixation.

That is why nothing you say is going to matter right now. She's just not able to hear it. There are chemicals at work in her brain that limit her ability to hear you, and that is a scientific reality.

If you shame her, scold her, threaten her, etc., you threaten her wonderful feelings and she will resent you for it. This will make her feel badly and she will seek comfort in OM which will deepen their bond.

The book talks about two more kinds of love, "Loving Attachment" and "Affectionate Regard". Loving Attachment is what you would find in a healthy marriage -- not Limerence, and that's why a long term marriage pales in comparison to "affair love". That said, Loving Attachment is very nice, it means both partners are invested in the marriage.

"Affectionate Regard" is what people also call "unconditional love". You can feel this for anyone, and it need not be reciprocated. It does not bring attachment with it.

What often happens is that the marriage slips from Loving Attachment to Affectionate Regard slowly over time, and one person is eventually tempted by feelings of Limerence.

So what can you do?

In a normal dating scenario, Limerence will last from three to five years. In an affair scenario which is usually much more based in fantasy with less of a real foundation, it will typically last from 6 months up to 3 years.

The only way to shorten that time is for the partners to be totally and completely separated with no further contact. This is recommended in all "affair recovery" prescriptions. Any future contact is likely to trigger limerence to kick in again, however, if it is interrupted in this way.

Of course to cut it off completely one of the partners needs to be motivated to end it, and then both will go through a painful grieving process for several months, during which time they're likely to be meaner to you than ever!

So what do you do?

You need to gut-check: are you willing to wait this out for up to a few years?

If so, you need to focus on avoiding things that will *create resentment*. The harder you make it on her now, the more difficult it will be for her to come back to you later.

If you leave a job and your boss shakes your hand and you leave on good terms, it's pretty easy to consider going back there later. If you leave a job and the boss swears at you, berates you, and threatens you, there's usually no way in hell you're going to consider going back there, you're going to look to find a new job instead.

That's the model. If you want a chance to reconcile later, you need to keep the path home paved and smooth, which is to say that you do not do or say things that will increase resentment. You just let her be, and you do your own thing.

This is brutal, because she is really severely wronging you, and there is no way for you to be heard, to get compassion, or to get the things you feel you're owed at a very fundamental level, but that's just the way it is.

The two of them are in a castle with a big wall around it, and there is no way in until the walls start to crumble, which inevitably will happen on its own time.

Venting

Moving back to the family home was an excellent decision. It is an effort - on Monday I fly to work and on Wednesday back, two more home office days on Thursday/Friday. But from Thursday to Sunday I am together with the kids. We always have a great time together.

Now the venting: on the next weekend I won't see the kids. There is a short Pentecost holiday, four days. W will take the kids to her parents with OM, the first time. We had married in that city and in the house of her parents 17 years ago. This weekend will be VERY tough for me.

None of the predictions of a weakening of W's affair with OM have materialized so far. The kids told me W would like to have a child with OM, "fortunately" she is too old for that. They are also planning to build a house. Note: neither of us has filed so far! If it's true that 90% of affairs don't last then it seems that the one of W belongs to the other 10%.

I will continue to work hard for my job, my core 180, and spend as much time together with the kids as possible. I hope that they will gravitate to me gradually as they get older without any custody fight.

People tell me how relaxed and happy I look on photos. True, I have stabilized a lot compared to last year. But I am still in the "fake it 'til you make it" stage. Often sad on the inside but plowing on with my tasks.

While you cannot rely on the third hand info of your children, and you shouldn't pry your kids for info (I'm guessing it's just info they offer up, randomly and without prodding), what your have "heard" about your W's intentions seems rather "out there".

I personally find it interesting that a 50 yr old woman would like to (and could) have a child with a OM. Unless it's adopting. What do I know, I'm not your W... it just seems like fanciful thinking...

and speaking of fantasy, as you indicate, the two of you are not D yet and she is thinking not just about having a child with OM, but also building a house with him?

Like I said, you can't rely on what your kids said, just consider what would need to happen for your W do accomplish those goals, any time you think that there is not a possibility that the A could end.

Hi Kaffe Diem, thanks for your comment.

Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem

I personally find it interesting that a 50 yr old woman would like to (and could) have a child with a OM.

She says she's in menopause now so it will likely remain a wish.

Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem

the two of you are not D yet and she is thinking not just about having a child with OM, but also building a house with him?

Her plan of building a house is directly from her. She has a high income so she could do it.

She once mentioned a role model: the current German president, Joachim Gauck. He separated from his wife and his four children and has been together with his lover for a decade who now is the "First Lady" in Germany. Officially he is still married to his wife. This is against my moral code, I find it creepy. Thus I will live with the situation of W/OM only for a limited time, maybe 1-2 years - or until I am done.

Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem

Just consider what would need to happen for your W do accomplish those goals, any time you think that there is not a possibility that the A could end.

Although nearly everybody around me has recommended to divorce W I continue to DB. Whenever the kids are with me in the house W comes daily in the evening after work to bring some clothes or rehash the school day with the kids. We talk friendly, at the end she gives me a hug - even in the darkest times she always emphasized that family life was "perfect". It's just that OM manages to attract her in some unknown way, as a "soul mate". I asked her once what's so special about him but she refused to elaborate. He's not good-looking, has a belly, a bald head, several health problems, has not finished any education and a negligible income with small-scale free-lance jobs and stays at home most of the day.

Long Run..just to let you know, H and GF were 8 mos. together, with I think, another month beforehand when he feelings I am sure. He wanted this to be a serious relationship, he talked about moving in....she broke up with him about three weeks ago. It was all very serious.

What I am saying is do not talk what your W says to heart. H looks happier than ever and is able to work on who he is.

I am sorry you find yourself in this sitch...become happy with you and where you are and your relationship with W will fall into place, whatever that R will look like, be it co parents, friends or spouses.

Black humor

I happened to discover an LBS blog with an entry which contains a kind of recipe for the wayward-acting spouse how to best approach the "deal". Warning - black humor.

You are about to embark on one of the most perilous journey�s you have ever taken.
http://coralf.wordpress.com/2009/11/27/y...ave-ever-taken/

Come on and dig in, it�s time to get this rollercoaster rolling on down the tracks!

Chapter 1 � Choosing the correct speech

These are the basic speeches for you to choose from:
I care for you, but I don�t love you anymore.
I love you but I�m not in love with you (ILYBINILWY)
I don�t know what I want.
I haven�t been happy for the last 10/15/20/30 years (depends on the day).
You will never change.
It�s not you. It�s me.
I wouldn�t choose you any more.

[Excerpt of remaining sections:]

Chapter 2 � Lessons in building anxiety
Lesson 1 � Monstrification of Your Spouse
Lesson 3 � Mass Confusion and Indecision
Lesson 4 � Lies and Deceit

Chapter 3 � The Other Person (OP)
Chapter 14 � The Blame Game
Method 2: The Passive Blame Statement
Method 3: The Direct Blame Statement

Chapter 15 � Advanced Lessons

Here's a link to a page discussing the history of this piece:
http://midlifeclub.com/midlife-for-dummies.htm

I looked at both, the bottom link has a better representation...and had huge irony in it. I wanted to crack a smile at a couple...but too many hit close to home.

Bookmark

With a hat tip to Kaffe Diem I am posting a link to a message of Virginia, a member of Michele Weiner-Davis' team:

Why You Haven�t Seen Change in Your Marriage (and What You Can Do to Fix It)

by Michele Weiner-Davis

If you have reached an impasse in your marriage-saving efforts, you will want to read this because it will help you diagnose the reasons you might be stuck. Don�t despair, just make sure you read this!

So, why haven�t you seen change in your marriage yet? Let�s take a look at a few possible reasons.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2201122#Post2201122

Follow the link for the full text.

Thank you! I needed this reminder this morning. I feel refreshed & back on track after reading.

Journal

Today is June 30, the end of the first half of 2013, time to look back.

We often use the acronym "DB" on the forum. It is supposed to mean "divorce busting". In my view a better meaning is "depression busting". Michele Weiner-Davis' advice has helped me a lot to digest the pain and the anger after my wife held her "I love you but I am not in love with you" (ILYBNILWY) speech and all the other steps she has taken away from me. But regarding the relationship with my wife the first year of DBing has not yielded any tangible results towards reconciliation.

They say that most affairs don't last, that 80-90% are going to fail. Well, my wife started her affair behind my back and every single decisive step she took since then was getting closer to the "other man", OM. She announced the physical affair in April 2012, she left the family house and moved in with OM and my/our kids in September 2012, she is currently spending her second summer holidays with OM and my kids, she is introducing OM to her close and distant family.

Watching the progress of forum members I also don't see much hope. Initially I thought the success rate, of getting at least to the piecing stage, is maybe 20%. Now I think it is closer to 5% or even lower. Many marriages of vocal forum members have edged closer to divorce or divorce has been finalized. Crimson had started to piece but there is another setback.

All in all I have developed a sober view of the effectiveness of DBing. I am thankful that it has helped me to find an emotional balance - I do not feel like a piece of raw flesh any more as I did for weeks after ILYBNILWY. I am very successful with my "core 180", my main change correcting a deficiency of me during the past years. At "bomb drop" day I was still a houseman and student who couldn't pay any bills. One year ago I picked up an "A" diploma and have become an IT specialist with a very good salary who is sent to other continents by a famous multinational company. And the relationship with my kids has become even better than it had been before - in the rare times I manage to be together with them.

Whenever I am in the former family house and the kids split their week between me and W/OM frictions arise. W brings and picks up the kids, often she forgets something, is late, gives us some "tasks" (the kids should read that, meet that friend, go to bed early etc.). When I am far away from home my peace of mind is much better (except that I miss my kids terribly). Right now I am on my third two-month trip within nine months, 10.000 km away from home. Currently my company is looking for volunteers for a one-year stay in North America. I'll volunteer. I had never been outside of Europe until a year ago. Living in North America had always been a dream. So that would be long-term GALing giving W LOTS of time and space.

P.S.: nobody has filed yet.

Do something different.

-PM

" One year ago I picked up an "A" diploma and have become an IT specialist with a very good salary who is sent to other continents by a famous multinational company. And the relationship with my kids has become even better than it had been before - in the rare times I manage to be together with them."

Good for you longrun and congrats. If your W can't appreciate this ^^^it's her loss. Well done!

Newman

Thanks, newman7977 and PatientMan, and also a very belated "thank you" to kate's_place for her post in May.

And what else have you been doing? There are no guarantees in any program. If your W left you for the other man, there are just those times when the WAS feels that she would be happier with someone else. However, what she fails to understand is that happiness comes from within and not from an external person. That is HER choice and is not any consequence of Db.

Hi all, time for an update. News of the day: I have been served.

At the beginning of August I returned from my latest business trip. Since then I have been working for three days per week at one end of my country and have spent the remaining days in the family house with the kids, at the other end of my country. This means two flights per week. (Before BD I had never flown, yet another 180.) I enjoy my job and I enjoy the time with the kids even more. I have reached a separation agreement with W: I keep the house and she needn't pay me any spousal support. Since she earns 3x as much as I do I give her a major six-digit sum.

The kids continue to be sad about the separation but they also discover advantages. W was controlling, without her the kids enjoy the freedom they have with me. - I spent two weeks of autumn holidays with them visiting many places in our city. They told me that we had more trips in these two weeks than in the 1.5 preceding years with W/OM.

There are many more 180ies. For instance, I often played soccer in my spare time during high-school. After high-school I stopped playing. Ever since W entered my life (1983) I hardly did any sports on my own because I wanted to be together with W as often as possible, that's what I thought would be the right thing to do. Now, after a break of three decades, I have started to play soccer again, once per week with my colleagues. What fun it is. I am about twice as old as many other players but I can keep up reasonably well.

W continues to live with OM and with my/our kids from Sunday evening to Thursday evening. No sign of an affair end. He has also been served. I am in regular mail contact with his ex-W.

I can't say that I am happy but neither I am very sad. Apart from BD the big shock was when W moved in with OM in September 2012. The upcoming divorce just adds a piece of paper. That's what I'm telling the kids: nothing will change for them after divorce. They often state they would prefer to live with me all the time. They don't like staying in the W/OM flat. The problem is that I can not find a job in my own city easily and that W would probably put up a fight if I reduced her kids' time to less than it is now, basically a 50/50 arrangement. I expect that the kids will gravitate more and more towards my place as they grow older (D10/D10/S8).

In the divorce filing my wife claims that we agree that our marriage has failed irretrievably. I am not hiring a lawyer and have written a response to the court myself. I am contradicting this point and explain that I don't consider the M to be failed but that I don't challenge the filing. (In my country a challenge prolongs the separation time from one to three years.) I also mention that W wanted a divorce before, a decade ago. At that time she retracted her application on the day of the final court meeting, one hour before the divorce became effective.

Originally Posted By: longrun

. . .I have been served.

I am not hiring a lawyer . . . and have written a response to the court myself.

Unwise.

Update: the divorce in court will be on June 19.

Hi Longrun I just read all your posts and they break my heart.

My wife had an EA that I am not sure when it went PA. We knew each other 30 years when it started as of today it is 32 years and in June we will have been married 28. My WAW says many of the same things yours did. My WAW also fell for OM who is a Tour Guide and what she likes is his life and her new found attraction to our religion and his culture. They are calling his home 6000 miles away their apartment.

The only difference is she stopped the Collaborative Divorce to move back into our home for an in-home seperation for financial reasons. While she is still with the OM (CAKE EATER)

Her original plan was to hide the affair and to stay with me until S-15 Graduated HS. But the third time he was visiting after I though we were OK, I confronted and she bolted. Claimed he convinced her I would hurt her. Well if so, why is she coming home.

I really want to R, I just don't know how to handle her moving home. When I saw her favorite teddy was gone that she claimed she bought for me, I was nauseous. I should have thrown it out. I believe she took it to surprise him on his last day in the USA next Wed. They actually went to his country for 14 days and her Birthday in March and now are visiting friends of his in another state that are supporting the Affair and hate me.

I guess I am telling you this to tell you I feel your pain. There are days that I don't want to R, and then days I fear if we do it wont last and she will return to him again.

How are you feeling these days? Did you have the same ups and downs? Are you feeling ready to move on?

I really felt for you when I read your thread. I was hoping it said you were back together...I am soo sooo soooooooooo Sorry for you.

Take Good Care!!

Hi Oxford1,

Thank you for your post and sorry for taking so long to reply to you. Interesting to see the parallels between our situations. It helps to see that not only one's own spouse acts strangely but that there are many common patterns in other relationships.

In my case time has progressed - I am now officially divorced. At least there has been no hostility between me and X which is good for the kids. Shuffling them weekly back and forth between my and my X's place is tedious and the kids hate it (there's always something left behind at the other place) but at least X is cooperative. I have seen much worse examples here.

My job keeps me very busy, add taking care of the three kids for half of the week all by myself then there is no spare time left.

Right now I have been sent abroad once again and although the trip brings its own challenges I finally have some time for myself to post this update.

You asked how I am feeling - surprisingly balanced. Yes, there is a bit of sadness about the end of the marriage but now it's only a faint pain compared to the beginning. My priorities now are my kids, my health and my job and I try to care for them as best as I can.

I am very relieved that the divorce is no shock for the kids. Actually I am proud how well they take the whole development. They have not deteriorated in school, keep their old friends and find new ones.

Many of the posters I watched when I started here are gone. It seems that after 2-3 years most people move on. I post this update so that people can see a complete story.

My lesson for newcomers would be: cope with the pain as well as you can. The chances of a reconciliation are not good. But instead of scheming how to improve your odds it's better to focus on your own life. In the long run your personal progress will outweigh the pain of the separation.

Update: divorce is now more than half a year ago. Today I learned accidentally that XW is planning to marry OM this month. I did a decent job DBing during the past three years ever since OM entered the picture. But today I couldn't help myself and wrote a mail to XW asking her not to invite our kids. Too bad I am on a remote business trip for several weeks and can't talk to my kids in person before the event. But I wrote to them about it and that they should decide honestly for themselves if they wanted to attend and that I would accept either decision.