This is part 2 of my sitch.... Today is rough, I was cleaning off my rest at the shop on my day off when I found my birthday card from a few months back. It reads
Love is and amazing thing.. Marriage is even more amazing. Some people believe that it goes against our nature to be with one person for the rest of our life, I think that's B.S. wit what we have experienced over the past year together I am even more certain that we were made for one another. I want you to know how much I love you and appreciate everything about you. You truly are my only one and I LOVE that I get to fall in love with you over and over again for the rest of my life.
Sigh.... She confuses the crap out of me. I can only imagine how confused she is right now..
My friend told me that I should consider telling W that I would like to go to the family camping outing on my own. That her coming with me not knowing the status of our M and having to be around my family who don't know about the sitch is not fair to me nor is it healthy.
I feel that he has a point but I also feel this would potentially be a bad thing as she already planned on going together which was her idea not mine.
He also told me I need to pull back more. That my current efforts are not enough for her to see that the grass is not greener on the other side.
This is friggen HARD! I am so in love with her and getting sooooooo many mixed signals it's driving me batty. I try stepping off the roller coaster only to find myself back on it.
I keep picturing my life without her and how incomplete it seems..
I just don't get why she got turned on by another man which means that function is still there but we cannot figure out when and why she stopped being turned on by me.. I feel like she is holding back, like if she just let go and stopped trying to read into it so much it would come back. I feel like she put too much pressure on herself to MAKE herself turned on by me and since that didn't work she feels nothing will.
MC told me to open a dialog with W about the lack of affection and whether it is because she doesnt me to feel like it will lead to sex or whether it is something else.
Is this sound advice?
I feel the slight tinges of anger... I am not an angry person, nor do I argue or raise my voice. This has been what I think is a contributing factor to the passion being snuffed out in our M..
Today however I find myself not wanting to engage in conversation with her, not wanting to hug her or be affectionate with her as much, I can't tell whether it's anger or frustration or just pride but it has not been there till today.
I know I won't act on the anger or frustration I just hope it does not shine through that much.
Can anyone one here read my sitch threads and offer me some words of encouragement or clarity.. I am feelin particularly down today for some reason and could really use a pick me up...
Thanks soooo much Adinva!
Tonight was interesting, went and watched Hope Springs at the movies together then came home and hung out. Talked about re arranging our house for winter to make better use of the fireplace. Talked about snowboarding and changing pictures on the wall.
She read me a chapter of a book she has been reading, but still no signs of wanting to be affectionate or that she wants us to still work.
I am still working on me, acting as if and trying to GAL. Angry feelings I was having earlier passed now it's back to frustration and curiosity of what she is thinking. Also a little fear that if I ask her or talk about "us" I will hear an answer which I don't want.
Patience, patience, pateince.
Hi Guy, sorry about your sitch. I went back to the beginning but got called away so I didn't read it all. I really sympathize with you; you seem so emotionally invested in your marriage, and I wish that were enough to make it work. It's such a good thing.
You'll find that well meaning friends can sometimes give bad advice because they just want the quickest way for you to feel better. And sometimes they are wise. Some people here will give you conflicting advice too. It boils down to what feels right in your heart, trying things and monitoring what works, and being very patient. Especially if there's an OM, patience is needed because nothing will work while your spouse is in an addiction to a new relationship. All you can do then is be the better man, work on whatever you've learned you need to work on, hang in there, and don't make things worse.
In my opinion, you should go on the camping trip together, especially if she wants and expects to go. Look for 25's posts if you can, to find where she went on a vacation in the middle of the bomb situation, with her H, and made the absolute most of it. It was hard, but it was the best thing she could do in her position. I think the camping trip is like that. It's a chance to quietly shine as the better option.
In my M I lost interest in ML over time. It wasn't that H wasn't attractive or a good person or a good husband. It became like a chore, not a very fun one, because there was such build up of resentment that went unspoken, slights that felt reasonable and not worthy of dealing with, absence of intimacy until it was like there wasn't another person in my marriage with me until he wanted sex.
Your descriptions sound like to avoid conflict you withheld yourself too. That is something to work on. Why is conflict scary for you? Did you not learn how to navigate normal conflict in a healthy way? Did your parents not provide an example for you? Mine and my H's did not, and we never learned it. You can learn it even if your W isn't sure there's anything left to save. I've been learning it and my H has been sure he's done for going on 15 months so far.
This may not save your marriage, but it is necessary for you to have a healthy relationship so you should work on it anyway.
Work on why you are, by your own description, needy. That isn't attractive. Why not try to replace neediness with generosity? Strength, independence, wholeness, peace?
You have enough there to keep your mind busy, act as if you're fine, and wait this out a while.
Passion and sex drive can be switched off. I haven't had a lot of encouragement that it can be switched back on again, but I believe it.
I always thought in my SSM that when it became a problem we'd get some help and fix it, with a sex therapist, or counseling, or a marriage workshop...something must help. If your W is motivated there's a chance, I really believe it, but it won't work until the things that eroded her interest are taken care of, and that may take work to figure out what they were and learn how to address them. It's like, my H could completely stop doing the things that turned me off, but I'm still stuck with the baggage of years of being turned off by those things. I have to gradually let go and forget my resentment before I can even consider wanting to be intimate again. And then it will be a building process.
I think you must have both hidden your feelings from each other, for her to now be saying she's not attracted, when you mentioned that your sex life was great. It's not a good marriage if you're both stifling yourselves to make it appear like a good marriage; eventually you realize there's nothing there.
Sorry to not be more "everything's going to be fine" encouraging when you're down...that's not my style. But I do feel better in my sitch when I feel like I have a task to get to work on. I think you have stuff you can work on without her and let her sit for a while with her own stuff.
I'll be rooting for you, you seem like a very loving h.
Thanks sooooo much for your lengthy and awesome post!
I know that there are underlying issues which have eroded away at my W passion for me, I am working on then. One of the things which has been a big problem is that I have ever been good at putting my issues I have with my wife out there. I constantly brush them aside or do what I can to avoid the impending argument.
This is definitely an issue which I need to fix but is very hard to fix right now because I do not want to rock the boat too much.
One of the things that's driving me batty are the mixed signals. The making of so many plans, of talking about Christmas presents to eachother, re arranging our home for wither, buying seasons passes to go snowboarding and talk of taking a major trip together. All of this while there is NO affection towards me besides the occasional hug or "I love you" which I think might be more habit than anything.
I know OM is not in the picture physically or emotionally with the exception maybe that she might still think about him. I know there is no contact between them, however I also know that a poor sex life and poor home life will ultimately lead to her looking outside the marriage.
Adinva from a female perspective, what is your take on her wanting to go on a 7 day retreat?
I do think my sitch is solvable, it's just very difficult to measure what works and doesn't when I feel she has shut down her affection towards me.
Well that's all the time I have this morning, I will keep my head up, a smile on my face and hopes in my heart.
Oh yeah and there was my email to the MC about the lack of affection to which she told me to open a dialogs with W about why the affection is not there and what to do about it.
I kinda have to have that conversation otherwise when it comes up at the next session it could pose bigger issues than bringing it up now. Trouble is I feel like it goes against DBing and acting as if... I really want to have the conversation though. I feel like it might show W I am not afraid to bring subjects which might hurt up to her.
Thoughts??
Today went well. Got to do a 30 min meditation. Sit by the lake, work went well and W was kind enough to thro an ILY into the mix. She seemed very happy today and me not being up her butt all day long I think is giving her some much needed relief.
Tonight I am making been tacos for dinner and then we are going to watch our favorite show.
We saw Hope Springs last night and there is a quote I would like to share but for the life of me I cannot find it online. It refers to the ability we have to make something beautiful and beyond amazing out of what seems to be nothing. All it takes I some hope, hard work and patience.
When I heard this narration durin the movie I almost got choked up because throughout the whole movie we could see parallels to our sitch. I think it was a great experience for us and it was HER idea.
One more thing... I cannot wait to put my story on the "Another divorce busted " thread...
I will be the best man I can be!
One more thing... I cannot wait to put my story on the "Another divorce busted " thread...
I will be the best man I can be!
No way! Congrats. Stay busy and working on yourself as you spend these little nuggets of time with your wife. Try to stay focused on goals outside of her.
I am not saying it IS going to happen I am just saying that as I work on myself more and more every day I can SEE the results and feel more optimistic about the sitch.
I have major things going for me,
1 W is making plans with me in the future.
2. W is going to MC with me.
3. W is still happy in the house with me.
4. W is still wearing her rings.
5. W has been honest with me from the start of this sitch.
With all of those things going for me I MUST and will take full advantage of those posative aspects. I am looking better, feeling better and doing things for me which are better..
I feel confident I can be a better person than when she fell in love with me.
Wome up and out some sore muscle balm on W's back. Still no signs of affection and now she doesn't get dressed in front of me either.
I have thought about it a little and I can only really conclude that she just doesnt want any sexual tension right now or she is pullin back more... Hmmmmm...
Well time to work on me.. I hope today is a solid day!
MC told me to have an open conversation with W abOut the lack of affection and what the "safe" level is for me so that I don't feel that sexual ramp up.
I know I need to have the conversation. Any ideas on how to approach this??
My brain is so fickle. I see so many positives in my sitch and do so well with not showing W my pain and fear. then one small thing will happen and my brain goes on overdrive with fear and panicking.
WTH....
I think the reason I am in this panicky and fearful position is that having this conversation is really gOing to tell me the direction she is feeling like going in the relationship.
You really have 2 choices then - to have the conversation or not. But remember, if you have the convo you have to be prepared for her honest (at the time) answers.
If you can't handle it, it might not be best to have the convo.
Of course, if you don't have the convo then remember it's you taking some control of the situation by deciding not to have it, but then you have to live with the consequences of not having it- like the lack of physical affection. You already expressed some small resentment.
Many, many here would tell you not to have the convo because it's too early, it's pursing, yada, yada, yada. I won't.
don't put some much stock and energy into one conversation.
Personally, I think she's telling you (maybe not with words) what the safe level is for her right now. But don't get stuck on the right now...that can improve my friend. You are in a much better situation right now that a lot of people.
If you do, remember to be calm, collect and honest. Don't react to negative information. It can be tough, but you can do it.
I think I have to have the convo. If it comes up at MC and I didn't have the convo that makes me look weak and fearful which is not what I wan to portray. I will just have the conversation diplomatically and remember to take any negative aspects of it with a grain of salt.
I know I am the best man for her and I know she was head over heels attracted to me. No reason I can think of that I can't be that man to her again.
Thanks for your input harrier..
Any chance I can get a boot camp person or a email pal on here? I really need the extra support because I know I am in a workable sitch I just need to work it right.
Or maybe a WAW on here to pm with to gain some clarity when I need it?
And I just want to put it on here cause I feel like screami it to the world anonymously.
My W is pretty much the most amazing woman in my world behind my mother..
I adore her beyond words, trust her with my life and know she is my best friend..
What makes this sitch so hard is we both have great qualities that we love about each other and we both are great together so to feel like this and see what has happened to us is very confusing.
Just a word of caution here guy.
Beware of putting your wife on too high of a pedestal. I know that sometimes the LBS can have the view of their spouse change to make them the greatest person in the world. But in the end, I know it does you no favors.
You can't really expect to have a real relationship with one person worshiping the other person. It's a fantasy really.
Ferris Bueller said it best. "you can't respect somebody who kisses your a**. It just doesn't work."
Excellent point....
I do put her in a high place..
Last night she started telling me that she wants to re arrange the house with me. She said she wants to move OUR bedroom to the spare which is warmer in the winter...
AND she has been calling me "just because" again today.. I have not been able to answer due to bein busy... That's gotta be a good thing. ..
Those are good things. But remember not to look at individual events, but to look at the overall trajectory.
I'd say by all means keep doing what is working for you.
Me not being the initiator of phone calls and texts etc... Me working hard and bringing home some bacon. Me giving her space and finding things I like to do myself. I think those things all are working.
As to the trajectory overall right now, I'd say it's flat to a slight incline. But that's better than the slight decline I was at 3 weeks ago. Big thing to me is that she is back to making plans with the word "our" and "us" in them. I don't think being on a decline would promp her to do that very much.
Me not being the initiator of phone calls and texts etc... Me working hard and bringing home some bacon. Me giving her space and finding things I like to do myself. I think those things all are working.
As to the trajectory overall right now, I'd say it's flat to a slight incline. But that's better than the slight decline I was at 3 weeks ago. Big thing to me is that she is back to making plans with the word "our" and "us" in them. I don't think being on a decline would promp her to do that very much.
You can back off of analyzing it every hour for now. Try doing your thing and look at it on a week by week. Be focused enough and in the moment enough so that she or the sitch behind you two is not on your mind at all.
As I start today I cannot help but wonder where we will be a year, a mont or a decade from now.. Will we be together? Will we have kids?
I am feeling more in cOntrol of my panic periods which is good. Breathing and meditation help. I hope over the next few weeks to have solid MC sessions and to feel some of that wonderful affection return.
I will bE focusing on being the best I can. Continue to work on my self image and control my needs.
Any women in here who were WAW that I could ask a few ?'s in private?
Can't do PMs. (a few ruined it for the rest of us. LOL) Each situation is different and you can read some of their threads.
As you can imagine their aren't too many here.
Sandi2 is one. Crazyville is another, so is MandyRwaw (although her story is a tad different)
I wouldn't try to think too much about the future especially that long. too many variable...even outside of your M.
I have figures out today that my form of communication is to NOT communicate. Lol I am constantly worried about "the outcome" or the repricussions. So instead I tend to just, well do nothing... This ends up being sorta a cowardly thing in some sitchs which is horrible.
Take this discussion about the levels o affection. I know have to have the conversation yet I fear the answer so I have not had the discussion yet. Attractive? I think not...
So I took a big step in the right direction today. I needed to communicate unacceptable work relations between myself and the other manager and just did it.. Normally It would have been me just brushing it off hoping it didn't happen again but not this time.
Now I need to have this conversation about the levels of affection and whether she is holding back and if so why. So that not only can I prove to her I am willing to bring things up which I would like to know even though the answer might be rough but also prove to myself on a regular basis that holding back on uncomfortable conversations will ultimately only hurt ME!!
Wish I had known this 4 years ago. I think the passion might still be alive if I had shown more cajones... Oh well hind sight bla bla bla.. Time to make the change I want to make and do it forever.
Also been getting very nice phone calls from W but still no forms of physical affection are coming out with the exception of the occasional peck or hug.
I am eternally optamistic about this sitch but not blinded to the point where I cannot see the potential realities. Having someone who has not truly felt a sexual impulse towards you for a while feel that switch turn back on for you is going to be a looooooong process.
I hope you all are ready for my threads. Lol
Had a great nights sleep! Have a big day today at work so that will help keep my mind off my Sitch.
. W and I started planning out the house re arranging last night. I continue to hold onto hope that all these things mean that part of her is still thinking we can make it.
Today is the first time in 5 years I will not be at the family corn roast for her side of the family. Feels weird for me because I am so used to going together. But I view it in a posative light where maybe she will miss me being there.
Still replaying the phone conversation in my mind where she called me babe and honey again been a while since I heard those names for me.
Good things come to those who wait. And I am a patient son of a gun right now.
W and I are going to have cheese and wine while watching an event at the lake we live on tonight. I am excited because I have been getting such positive feedback from my 180's.
This week I am going to focus on finding some new local friends to do things with so I can detach just a little more and see what happens.
A peck on the cheek with a hug and off to train for her triathlon. I'm off to work soonookin forward to a busy day.
Last night was a great night with W. I continue to try to find things that will get more response. Tomorrow we have a full day off together. First time in 2 weeks. It will be interesting to say the least.
New breakthrough!! W talked about buying a home together for the first time since sitch developed!! She was also looking at me with such a great smile I just about grabbed her and kissed her. I held back and enjoyed the moment. I know I have a lot of work to do but the level of commitment to the M that she feels is now strong enough to plan waaaaaay further into the future.
Now to keep workin on me and finding things which increase her levels of attraction towards me. Whether it be taki more time for me to having 180's whic garner results.
W is coming around slowly. Updates to come soon. I can only hope we make it out of this stronger than ever. I dont think I could survive another ILyBINILWY.
This sounds like great news for you!
It's good you didn't grab and kiss her! There'll be plenty of time for that later on.
It sounds like you are really grounded in what you need to do. Take it slow with her. I wish you the best!
rH
And with a swift kick to the testicles a movie we watched brought me close to square 1 again. W is talking about how we havnt had a passionate relationship since a while ago and how we are setting ourselves up for a series of these problems. Dam. This is gonna be tough.
We ended up having an R talk for about 2 hours. It was civil and at least I got an "I really want us to work" but in a nutshell she doesn't know if we will. She says she is really confused and that she has been doing thinking about how this happened. We mapped out when this all started and we figured out a few things but where we figured out a few things more issues popped into place.
I don't get how we had been getting closer and she kept talkin more and more about plans together for the future including home buying together only to be told that she is not optimistic about us working like I am. WTF
Now she is also talkin about taking her week away again to collect her thoughts and try to "gain some clarity" in her words.
Any ideas forum cause that was something I knew could happen but thought wasn't going to happen.
After thinking about how awesome a weekend we had this just ripped me a new one.
Time to pull back even harder it seems. Glad we have a MC appointment next week after all the craziness of her triathlon and car show are over. I now almost hope she goes on a retreat cause she needs to figure this out and stop stringing me on and on with these future plans.
Sandi and 25yearMLC I could really use some support here.
One good thing was that she said that me getting a job was a good step for "us". And that she "Wants us to work"
The bad thing is we mapped out where the major issues started and it was when she broke her foot. We had moved in together and she had broken her foot. I had plans to go out with friends and my brother and she made me feel like I abandoned her when I went. So I came home early and after that I never really had a social life outside of "us". I had already bought her engagement ring and knew when and where I was proposing. So I told her I had a ring for her sorta telling her that if she wants out, now would be the time. NOPE she stayed with me and said "yes" and "I do" and all the other cards and promises.
So now at least I know that me losing a lot of my individuality and her and I doing almost everything together because of what she did that night is where the turn was. And now I have something to work on, so I will GAL more and pull back harder and hope god I need more hope.
Anger is coming back. Need to do a meditation because the last thing i need to do in this sitch is be angry towards W or innocent bystanders.
Maybe she's cautiously optimistic...and here's why.
me losing a lot of my individuality and her and I doing almost everything together because of what she did that night is where the turn was.
It's also what you did that night. It's never a good thing to give up yourself to be in a R. So don't put that on her. Work on yourself so that you can be a true partner in the R. The surest way to ruin a R is to be resentful of what you're giving to your partner.
On that night with the broken foot, she asked for something and you gave it but it seems it wasn't given unconditionally. That's not her burden, that's yours.
I read back over this thread and I think you need to find you, figure out your boundaries. You talked about your inlaw's resentment filled marriage. This is how it happens, no one has boundaries.
I don't put what happened that night all on her. I chose to let what she said and how mad she was effect me instead of making a stand for myself and tellin her that I have my life outside of us and I am sorry she feels bad but it's the way it is. However instead of doing that I caved to her wishes because she was mad and I didn't want to lose her. Silly now that I think about it.
She also asked me last night about whether I knew for sure that I was in love with her or whether I just thought I was because she is my first long term relationship. Then I told her how I had a long time crush grow herself at me when W and I had first got together. And it was my absolute lack of interest in this OW throwing herself at me because of my strong attraction to W that solidified my feelings that W was the "one" for me.
Man what a clusterf*£^% this is.
LA I hope you are right that she is being cautiously optimistic because I really want us to work.
I don't think choosing to stay with your wife when she might have needed your help was a bad choice, but it sounds like you let go of yourself somewhere.
That's all in the past you can't change it but it can be an insight into what didn't work. Work on you and as 25 says, become the better option.
We ended up having an R talk for about 2 hours. It was civil and at least I got an "I really want us to work" but in a nutshell she doesn't know if we will. She says she is really confused and that she has been doing thinking about how this happened. We mapped out when this all started and we figured out a few things but where we figured out a few things more issues popped into place.
Remember that DB is all about not dwelling on the past, but building a NEW relationship for the future. It's OK to discuss past issues because it gives you a template for your 180's, but don't talk endlessly about what has already transpired.
I don't get how we had been getting closer and she kept talkin more and more about plans together for the future including home buying together only to be told that she is not optimistic about us working like I am.
That's normal, you're not going to see all forward motion in this process. Now and then there will be a step backward. Don't worry about it, just keep up with the 180's and take everything she says with a grain of salt.
Now she is also talkin about taking her week away again to collect her thoughts and try to "gain some clarity" in her words.
If she's asking for space then by all means give it to her! Encourage her to get away and collect her thoughts! It would be a good time for NC, let her initiate while she's gone. Don't put any pressure on her.
I don't think choosing to stay with your wife when she might have needed your help was a bad choice, but it sounds like you let go of yourself somewhere.
That's all in the past you can't change it but it can be an insight into what didn't work. Work on you and as 25 says, become the better option.
You might be overanalyzing it and too close up on her. Maybe if you provided analysis and updates once a week versus several times per day. A trend I've noticed in these sitches is it tends to not work if you are too close up on it.
Regain your internal locus of control. That means control you. Figure out what you need to do and do it. It sounds like she is getting drawn back to you, but you keep messing with it. Keep overanalyzing it, fading and doubting your confidence in it.
Have faith it is going to be good either way, take good care of yourself.
That your W is "wanting us to work", wanting to go to counselling with you is good enough. Stop talking to her so much and pressing so she won't say "well I need some time away so I can sort myself out". We all know that's never a good thing, lol.
I think you'll be fine when you stop persuing. If you get into yourself, she just may pursue you. You have a better chance than most people on this board, because the WAS is indicating interest in making things work.
Being the better option is definitely what I need to do.
Besides taking scenarios out of a movie is silly. IT'S A MOVIE lol.
Patience, patience, patience.....
A lot of key things happening soon, where I will be able to shine..
1) her works car show. Where I plan on workin hard and being upbeat as humanly possible
2) W's triathlon. I will be the supportive H every woman dreams of.
3) family camping trip. I will be happy upbeat and enjoyable throughout the trip. I will be strong, decisive and patient in any situation that arrives.
4) her birthday. This is going to be the hard part because I usually spoil her. So I will have to think hard here.
Being the better option is definitely what I need to do.
Besides taking scenarios out of a movie is silly. IT'S A MOVIE lol.
Patience, patience, patience.....
Your "patience" time periods involve NOT WAITING on her.
But rather, actively seeking and being productive against things that need to be taken care of in your life, entertainment, etc. Completely focused on yourself and in the moment.
Don't think about her right now.
Went to dinner for moms bday today. She goes in for chemo for the second time in her life tomorrow. My mom and W had sooooo many laughs they turned purple.
On the way into dinner W mentioned that the weekend after next she wants to take a mini retreat to clear her head. I said okay and that's all. She is a big girl. She can make her own decisions. I am not going to tell her I am a-okay with it because I think that's not the way to figure things out. Then again it might just not be MY way of figuring things out.
Either way we are kind and open with each other and I am happy about that.
W and I are going to be working together for a few hours this morning, happy to be of service. I keep thinking in my head that in order for W to want to truly come back to me she is almost going to have to experience losing me.
I hope that's not the case but I really think it is.
Can't get the fact that she is going to go on a soul searching weekend soon. I really can't understand WAW syndrome. It makes no as as to me.
One of the things I keep coming back to is that she says our marriage isn't passionate sexually any more. My thing is how many really truly are? How many marriages have both partners being initiators on a regular basis? I am gonna guess very few. I know I have work to do in the communication department. I know I have work in the needs department. I am working in that, just wish W would see that this can be such an amazing relationship if she would just let go of the negative and focus on the posative and working on the issues
Patience patience patience. .
So I've just read all your posts 'Guy'. You are so lucky to have a W who is willing to stay AND go to MC. I was so past that point when I left. When I was willing (first & 2nd 'bomb') we thought we'd figured it all out on our own and didn't go.
Focus on the positives of your sitch, stop everything else! You need to focus on today! Learn from the past, find happiness today and patience for tomorrow.
And the intimacy can come back - I am living it. Took me reading 50 Shades to FIND my s_x drive again, but it's back and then some!
Different to be giving advice from my POV, but be the change you want to see in your R. It took me giving my H "closure" to really find him attractive again. When he stopped wanting/needing me, I started wanting him again. Weird but true. And it was before I found out about OW - but she was "there". Like others have said, my sitch is so different than most, but my reaction is pretty typical from what I've read about WAW.
I've been learning so much these past few weeks and am no expert. 7 weeks today since I *hinted* at regret of not trying harder. 3 weeks since I said out loud that I wanted us to work on our R and M.
If your W wants a week away, wish her well. Otherwise you may face a month or 6 or more of her gone.
That's my thoughts for now. Will check back in with you soon
Thanks Mandy,
I can tell you right now I will not stand in her way of going on a retreat. The only thing that could happen if I do is push her further in the wrong direction. I will continue to support her in her decisions and be the better man. I will continue to work on myself. One of the things I find hard to do is find some new friends to do things with. I really know that separation is the only way for someone to be missed. Whether its a week a day or a month. I just hope she can find her way back.
One question for you Mandy, did you lose sexual attraction to your H and have occasions where you felt a sense of sexual attraction to someone outside of your M?
Man hard to stop "wanting" my W. I know I do not "need" her as much as I once thought but to stop wanting her or desiring her is going to be difficult.
Kind of - it was after *very* briefly considering a one-night stand that I was convinced I had to leave the first time (June 2011). I had suffered through a LT partner cheating and I didn't want anyone to suffer, I thought by leaving it would be "better".
The thought came to 'be' by wondering if our SSM was because of me or us...Wondering if I would be able to be intimate with someone else? Did I not want s_x at all or just not with my H?
And it was just a thought, never acted upon in any way, shape or form - to my knowledge, the OM wasn't even aware of my "contemplation".
I ended up deciding to stay because H made promises to be 'better' and we both recommitted to each other, intimacy & communication. We had an amazing summer, full of time together and LOTS of intimacy. Something happened, more of our vicious cycle, come fall and it all fell to pieces.
Man hard to stop "wanting" my W. I know I do not "need" her as much as I once thought but to stop wanting her or desiring her is going to be difficult.
Desire something else. Desire you. You might not realize how much of yourself you have been giving up to her. If she's still with the other guy, LET HER GO!
It is uncanny how similar our sitch's are Mandy. I mean to the letter almost. I know you are differant person than my W but your thought process and what you said and did in your sitch is almost to the letter what my W did.
After she dropped bomb #1 we had some of the best and most passionate sex, we had great times together communicating and laughing and being spontaneous. Then it slowly faded yet again because we LET it.
Now she has the first Sexual spark in over a year and for the first time since we had been together it wasn't for me. And here we are..... I am sad that you are going through this sitch but I am glad you are here. I feel we have a lot of insight to offer each other on our sitches.
This morning I made W and I our normal shakes and sent her off to work with nothing more than a hug and a "have a great day". Normally I would have held the hug as long as I could, or gazed into her eyes to ask for a kiss, not today and no more backsliding!!
She wants space she's gonna get SPACE while still having a loving, supportive and honest H right in the house.
LOVE will win the day and I WILL be a better person because I want to be.
Have kept myself busy all day long. Surprisingly enough I have begun to take myself off the roller coaster. I thought about how it would be if we were to go our separate ways and for the firs time I did not get panicky. I thought about the fact that I would be able to get a place with my brother, go and play volleyball with him, hang Out with old friends. It wasn't the dreaded end of the world feeling of old.
Wonder what this means for me...
Not that I couldn't do all those things right now if I didn't want to but they live very far away so it's not very appealing.
Working with W to get the car show ready. Making lots of effort to just be there as help and a sounding board if she needs it.
Breakthrough... I officially feel like I have taken Myself off the roller coaster! I have had NO physical contact with the W nor have I felt the need to initiate contact, yet I still feel that deep loving feeling.
Regardless of what happens with us I need to hold on to this. I cannot be a slave to my needs when it comes to relationships. It's just not healthy for me or my R. That being said I am not giving up on my M, I just know that it is goin to be easier for me to detach from here on out.
I am still the man she fell in love with and if she wants some of this ruggedly handsome devil she can decide for herself, I will be here until I feel the need to move on.
Good for you! That roller coaster can take it's toll!
Better if you can step off it every so often.
Going to try myself for the weekend
Breakthrough... I officially feel like I have taken Myself off the roller coaster! I have had NO physical contact with the W nor have I felt the need to initiate contact, yet I still feel that deep loving feeling.
Regardless of what happens with us I need to hold on to this. I cannot be a slave to my needs when it comes to relationships. It's just not healthy for me or my R. That being said I am not giving up on my M, I just know that it is goin to be easier for me to detach from here on out.
I am still the man she fell in love with and if she wants some of this ruggedly handsome devil she can decide for herself, I will be here until I feel the need to move on.
sounds like a plan.
We hammer the GAL here b/c it works. That always means meeting or involving other people. Not just solo activities, which is "alone time."
make the effort to meet new people or reach out to old friends but saying "it's too hard" is
a weak whiny answer and it's part of what you allowed to happen in your m.
Making a good marriage IS HARD...so is GAL but both are worth it.
Plus, GAL will help you keep your marriage. It's NOT a guarantee, but it sure helps you not obsess or panic so the downsides are lessened
and
it makes you more appealing and interesting and perhaps, a bit more sparkly. So there are upsides that come into your m from you GAL.
Are you wearing any nicer clothes or a new cologne? I appreciate good cologne on a man and it's just a very sexy thing to me. So is a nice watch, fashionable or professional clothes, etc.
Make yourself look "marketable" and GAL and let your w see that. When she goes off for her "time out" and all that
make sure YOU HAVE HUGE GAL PLANS...big ones.
And if the time comes when she's ready, see about attending
Retrovaille.
It's a marriage retreat for marriages in crisis, and yours is.
We got a lot out of it and she will too. You don't have to be religious to get something out of it though they do use the terms spritual relationship or spiritual connection with a spouse. (Some folks have a tough time with that and I'm sad for them...no offense if that's you).
I liked it and so did my h. He's not Catholic. But it was clearly not an issue as the
retreat is designed for couples in trouble, not to convert.
Look into it. For personal individual growth, which often makes a better spouse, I highly recommend the "Essential Experience"workshop and they have a website. It's usually in Philadelphia. Loved it, found it to be very profound and so did my h. Like 3 years of therapy in one long weekend.
Either of those long weekends might get you where you want to be a lot faster than the mc is. Especially if the mc is saying only 2 more months and then you are done...
Good luck and hang in there and please pull way back
That means not changing your mood hourly or daily based on what you think she said or meant that hour or day.
Don't give anyone that much power over your life
and fwiw, from your description of the wife's broken foot, sounds like she was in pain and maybe traumatized but you wanted to party with your bro and peeps and leave her behind. Sweetie, there are few if any women in their early 20s who would not be hurt by that. Just my take.
Does not mean you lose yourself and you cannot blame her for that.
Be your own man. A strong confident man in charge of HIS emotions
(and not one who loses control of them OR who feels the need to be in charge of other people's)
is what most of us find attractive. You can be that guy.
I agree, I think it was a bad thing and I went PLUS I came back because she was mad at me which didn't help because I ended up just arguing my case instead of manning up and admitting that I should have just stayed in.
I will try and find some great things to do next weekend but if she is going away from the house I have to stay at the house and watch our two dogs. I am fine with that it just means I cannot go anywhere for longer than 8 hours at a time.
I also need to find some friends who are not "mutual" friends because thats pretty much all we have.
I know we are in a better place than most on here and I know I am a great find only gettin better....
Thanks 25 and Mandy!
I have done well so far to just be there fl her and help her where she needs it. The. Came home made some Mac and cheese for us and watched half a movie before taking a nap. A nice relaxing day is just what I needed.
Now to work on getting some non mutual friends so i can do more GALing. It's hard because I am in an area where it's either bowling or hokey in the fall. Until winter I think I am stuck with going out to watch football with some mutual friends.
Also 25yrmlc, I would love to go to a couples retreat! I think once we get back to a point where she is "commited" to making it work I will look into this further. The MC told us that we will Re-Evaluate my W's position at the end of 3 months. She said that there is no reason she shouldn't know whether or not she wants to recommit by then.
As much as I didnt like the idea when she first said it I kinda dont mind it now. This limbo is no place to be for years, and It would make it difficult to survive through the holidays with this on my plate.
I have been wearing the cologne I wore when we met, especial on days when I have work because I dress up nicely on those days. I think I might break out a cologne I used to wear from before her because it was VERY nice. Also I have pulled back some more and am getting a much more comfortable response from W.
Any other ideas or critiquing is totally appreciated!!
Mandy, what are a few things H could have done to help the sitch or prevent the sitch from reaching this point when you dropped the second bomb?
W said ILY to the dogs and said "thanks for all the help today" to me and went to bed... Thanks.... Am I wrong for feeling lower on the totem pole than the dogs??
I have done well so far to just be there fl her and help her where she needs it. The. Came home made some Mac and cheese for us and watched half a movie before taking a nap. A nice relaxing day is just what I needed.
Now to work on getting some non mutual friends so i can do more GALing. It's hard because I am in an area where it's either bowling or hokey in the fall. Until winter I think I am stuck with going out to watch football with some mutual friends.
really?
Hmmm, well I was in the interior of Alaska with a newborn. In 3 winters...
I learned to cross country ski, and downhill ski, and hunt and fish for real. Like seriously.
I joined a writer's group, I auditioned for theater and I got roles. I eventually did stand up comedy.
I volunteered at a woman's shelter. I was in the PTA. I saw a t, and I worked out and got in serious shape. I played Bunko with women, and I was in a Wive's Club.
I edited a book that became a best seller. I wrote newspaper columns...and I think there's more but I hope you get the point.
You are NOT STUCK with football games...geez...
I don't mean to laugh "at" you but this is funny, don't you think?
W said ILY to the dogs and said "thanks for all the help today" to me and went to bed... Thanks.... Am I wrong for feeling lower on the totem pole than the dogs??
Listen, when H n I separated he walked into his mom's kitchen. His sister, mom, S4 and pregnant me were there. He went up to everyone and gave them a kiss hello. HE DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO LOOK MY WAY!!! It was awful but that was over a year ago and he did much worse after that. So just let it go. Let her love the dogs. Their dogs! It's not like she's telling another man ILY in front of you!
Hope this helps ;-)
oh and GAL in other ways as 25 is pointing out.
You're hecka young and don't have kids so GET OUT THERE!!!
Hahahahahahaha, looking at that and 25's post once again the whiny little brat shows up. Lol..... I have other things I am going to be working on.. The getting in better shape part is definitely already on. I have to go to work at the car show again today but will post more later.
The whiny little brat being me of course..
The whiny little brat being me of course..
yes we know. And the dogs comment is just silly of you to read into. It's your neediness flaring up again. Sooth yourself and build up your self esteem enough to handle TINY things like that. To me that's not even on the radar as a comment but if it is, it's dang small.
You can GAL more and we are hammering GAL here, b/c it works!
Involve other people.
Working out helps you feel better but you need OTHER people in your life. New people, or old friends who won't obsess with you about your wife.
I have been searching tonight online trying to find some team sports or something that interests me that I can do in the fall.
W and I had a greeat day, I shined and I didnt even try. It just was me, I worked hard helped out where I could, had a blast and my footbal team won today! W showered me with affection which I did not try and hold on to but enjoyed just as long as she wanted it there.
I did not need the affection but dang did I like it.. I know I have way more work to do on my neediness, d'état hint and GALing.
W And I also talked to my parents who were at her triathlon and the car show. They were talking about a property which they looked at and thought would be perfect for us.. Got home and W said "I want to make sure that we dont get into a situation where our M doesn't work out and your stuck with the mortgage. I don't know where we are headed and I don't want to have outside distractions prevent us from figuring this out."
I didn't panic I didn't tell her that it was silly to think we won't work out, I simply said "those are valid points and I would want to make sure it's the best thing for us before commuting to anything"
In fact it's exactly how I was feeling...
I know we have a great shot, I would love her to feel one spark of sexual attraction towards me so that she could feel more confident in "us"...
Last nigt and this morning went great! Slept like a rock, woke up refreshed, soothed some sad needy feelings away as soon as they cropped up helped W fet around for work. W gave me a great hug and kiss goodbye, she also held her cheek tight to mine for a while. That was something she used to do all the time when we started dating and had been missing for years of late. It felt really warm and fuzzy..
So I was thinking. I know, never a good thing when in these sitchs. Lol
But seriously, I was thinking about how if my W felt a sense of sexual attraction towards me it would be according to my W "something I have not truly felt in a long time". I know it would propel her into a frame of mind where she would have faith in our M again.
So my question to you WAW's is, if there were one or two things besides detaching, GALing and 180's that would send you into a desirous mode towards your H when you thought you wouldn't feel that way again, what would/are they?
I know I am already not portraying my neediness to W half as much as I used to even before the bomb. I am wearing the cologne she loves at opportune times. I am having fun with or without her and she sees it. I am trying to find more life outside of work and " us".
My thought is that even though all women are unique and every sitch is unique I have a feeling that there might be some things that other WAW's could think of and have in common with each other that could get a posative response. And right about now I think W is to the point where she wants to feel that spark towards me.
So send those ideas my way!
Last nigt and this morning went great! Slept like a rock, woke up refreshed, soothed some sad needy feelings away as soon as they cropped up helped W fet around for work. W gave me a great hug and kiss goodbye, she also held her cheek tight to mine for a while. That was something she used to do all the time when we started dating and had been missing for years of late. It felt really warm and fuzzy..
So I was thinking. I know, never a good thing when in these sitchs. Lol
But seriously, I was thinking about how if my W felt a sense of sexual attraction towards me it would be according to my W "something I have not truly felt in a long time". I know it would propel her into a frame of mind where she would have faith in our M again.
So my question to you WAW's is, if there were one or two things besides detaching, GALing and 180's that would send you into a desirous mode towards your H when you thought you wouldn't feel that way again, what would/are they?
I know I am already not portraying my neediness to W half as much as I used to even before the bomb. I am wearing the cologne she loves at opportune times. I am having fun with or without her and she sees it. I am trying to find more life outside of work and " us".
My thought is that even though all women are unique and every sitch is unique I have a feeling that there might be some things that other WAW's could think of and have in common with each other that could get a posative response. And right about now I think W is to the point where she wants to feel that spark towards me.
So send those ideas my way!
My best advice regarding attraction. Have full faith and confidence in yourself, detach from your sitch so there is no "pain" from it or trying to get your wife to come over.
Now be attractive within yourself, and be attractive to those that you attract. Talk to them, spend time enjoying your life.
If your current wife is to gain interest, this is how it's done. She may remember that you are attractive after some of her friends or some other people out in the world can see it.
The detaching and GALing was what I needed/wanted to see.
Also helped to feel *wanted* instead of needed...
I sometimes wonder what would have happened if my H had stuck with DBing instead of switching to the other *marriage* site...
I have all the time in the world to work on me... I am GALing harder ever since 25's rant that I needed to hear, I invite her to some o the things I do if she wants to be there but I dont need her with me at everything I do.
The more I detach the more I find her trying to do things with me. Now I need to work on communication as well.
Also tomorrow is the next MC session and for the first time since we have been going I do not have any issues I want to bring up because of the sitch. I will be there to offer my input and honest answers. I am feeling a slight pressure because MC told me I "could" share the email she sent to me regarding the affection issues I was having but I didn't. I realized after I sent it how silly I was in the first place. Oh well.
Was just going over something W has said numerous times and I wanted to get some clarity from the board..
W says "you shouldn't have to MAKE a marriage work"
I think that you do have to make a marriage work, staying in love is work, you have to work at the communication you have to adapt to different circumstances. You need to work on yourselves and work with each other on a constant basis.
The M's that are the strongest I see are the ones where they had to work the hardest to make it work.
Now the thing that scares me is the lack of physical attraction she feels towards me, that's sometin that she needs to see in me again and me working o me is the only thing I can do to help that.
Thoughts?
Yes. Keep following DR. Read and re-read it to understand what it does.
ALL relationships take work.
Become the better option.
Was just going over something W has said numerous times and I wanted to get some clarity from the board..
W says "you shouldn't have to MAKE a marriage work"
I think that you do have to make a marriage work, staying in love is work, you have to work at the communication you have to adapt to different circumstances. You need to work on yourselves and work with each other on a constant basis.
The M's that are the strongest I see are the ones where they had to work the hardest to make it work.
Now the thing that scares me is the lack of physical attraction she feels towards me, that's sometin that she needs to see in me again and me working o me is the only thing I can do to help that.
Thoughts?
I don't think you will grab physical attraction being seen by her everyday or talking about it.
I think it's going to be harder than you think, being that you are currently labled in a "friend zone".
Ugggggg.... Tough day today, working on my taxes at the shop where W works, got a splitting headache, feeling low, stresses of the not knowing hit me hard today when I was journaling. I started thinking abou OM and how W felt those feelings towards him that I so desperately want her to feel for me again.
Hang in there {{{HUGS}}}
Remember everything you have going for YOU!
Because whatever she does or decides - it's not a reflection of you - it's her...
I know and hearin that from a WAW helps immensely and I know there is more I need to do for me.. Here's to hoping we have a good MC session followed by a great evening.
Ugggggg.... Tough day today, working on my taxes at the shop where W works, got a splitting headache, feeling low, stresses of the not knowing hit me hard today when I was journaling. I started thinking abou OM and how W felt those feelings towards him that I so desperately want her to feel for me again.
That can take alot of out you. Make sure you charge and fill yourself from other places while you and W are in this position. Believe it or not, most of it comes from having fun, enjoying yourself and not worrying about what W is doing.
However as long as she is willing to go to MC sessions, and actually participate you are in a much better position than most on this board. In doing this she would also cut contact with OM(s) and not have a problem with it.
It's so funny how people can have such visions of fairy tale relationships without thinking how buch crap they have to go through to even begin to touch that level of an R. Commited R's take lots of work to MAKE them work so if you don't plan on putting the work in or you plan on giving up on the first or second speed bump the DONT make the commitment!! It would save a bucket full of tears and one hell of a heartache.
No one goes through M totally understanding it. It's just something you live and learn. Nothing can prepare you for it.
Well I am living it, trying to learn it and hoping with all the hope I have that W is wanting to learn it too.
Just found out we have a retrouaville two minutes down the road from us at the place we got married next month. But it's on the same weekend as (ironically enough) a wedding we have to go to. Lol
It's so funny how people can have such visions of fairy tale relationships without thinking how buch crap they have to go through to even begin to touch that level of an R. Commited R's take lots of work to MAKE them work so if you don't plan on putting the work in or you plan on giving up on the first or second speed bump the DONT make the commitment!! It would save a bucket full of tears and one hell of a heartache.
After going through my situation that put me in DB-land in the first place, yes a real relationship felt like a lot of work and compromises. But when you've had it stripped from you against your will, and hanging around here, we realize it's not a lot of work at all. Simply responsibility to yourself and your relation partner.
It's so funny how people can have such visions of fairy tale relationships without thinking how buch crap they have to go through to even begin to touch that level of an R. Commited R's take lots of work to MAKE them work so if you don't plan on putting the work in or you plan on giving up on the first or second speed bump the DONT make the commitment!! It would save a bucket full of tears and one hell of a heartache.
I love how you referred to yourself as a "ruggedly handsome devil" with rock steady confidence. You need to feel that every day of your existance.
Stellar work at the MC today! We sorted out communication issues, affection questions, and most importantly W said she feels crazy for not having sexual feelings for me, that besides the communication problem I have that I do everything she could ask for in a H. She even told me at this session that when all her GF's complain about their H's she feels bad because she feels like we are in such a bad place even though I don't put her through any of the issues she sees all around her.
She said that she wants to keep going and the MC told us that we need to sit down once a week and talk about how we are feeling as a whole, she said keep it light that the point of the excersize is to try and put posativity into communicating with each other.
I was even able to bring up that sometimes I hold my emotions and communication back because her reactions make me feel bad for the way I feel.
Then we had a great dinner and ride home.
Hope tomorrow is as good as today.
The communication, relationship stuck in a routine an lack of sexual attraction towards me are all directly linked to each other IMO. If we can work on the communication, continue to do thins individually and new things together and she stays willing to work on M then I think our M has a good shot of getting back on track.
Any thoughts?
Lol and after I look at that list of what needs to happen it all boils down to her wanting to work on M. No way around it she needs to drop the reservations about "you shouldn't have to make a M work" and realize that making an M work is the only way M's last.
I will continue to invest time and effort into me. I still need to find something which I am interested in to take the place of soccer. I cannot believe that my sitch is already 6 weeks since bomb, things are better but the same if that makes any sense. Limbo is a tough place to be. I don't want to convince myself that things are working out and that we are going to be fine, I find myself being posative about everything I can and I think it blinds me a little to the fact that she hasn't yet felt that sense of desire to stay together that I do.
Patience, patience, patience.
Crazy thin happened today, wasn't intentional at all. I called her aunts house (her H is one of my best friends and I his) and her aunt picked up. She is my W's confidant and mentor. They are inseparable.
She started asking how things were going at the new job and talking about her kids in school the whole normal small talk. Then out of nowhere the conversation switches to my sitch. At first I just sorta listened and started to switch the subject, and then she flat out told me that she "knows that if I take care of myself and give her some space while working on confronting and communicating issues with W without worrying about making her mad that we will be fine".
Now if it were her sister or mother or anyone else for that matter it would have been taken with a grain of salt. However I know that she W's go to for EVERY issue in her life so I know she knows all the details of what's going on and what W is thinking. So I take this info with more seriousness and also with the confirmation that the principals in DR work.
I know the thought of confronting issues head on during the sitch is not what everyone should do but in my sitch just going over what W said during MC and other conversations it is definitely something she wants to see out of me so I will work on that when the next issue arrives.
Thoughts?
Sooooooo last night was bad, W and I had been talking about gettit a Vitamix blender for a detox we both want to do. We would put it on a card as the money from my new job is just starting to come in and then we would pay it off.
As we were discussing it she became very quiet. So is asked her what was wrong. She told me that she wants to make sure we don't set ourselves up for a Nasty divorce by getting a bunch of credit card debt and having to sort it out if we split. Now I'm not one to normally charge things anyways. And we don't have but 5k in total debt period so we are not in bad shape. But then the conversation took a turn.
She started talking about how she keeps going through senarios of how this sitch plays out and in every one she sees us splitting. But that she hasn't been able to picture the senario where we're in a passionate M.
My heart dropped into my stomach but I told myself that she is just projecting that based on how our R has been for so long. She prolly barely remembers what it felt like to be passionate with me.
Instead of reacting I told her that I want to be happy and I want her to be truly happy. And whatever happens between us I just want to make sure that we are as open as possible to any outcome.
I am getting the feeling after yesterday that she has one foot out the door already.
Slightly stunned.
I know that I am not to believe anything that she says right now... But another thing that sticks with me is that she said she almost wishes one of us had cheated to make this split easier. Hahahahahahaha. Easier!!! Wtf how in the heck would that have made the split easier!!!
I feel like I just got set back 6 weeks to the start of this mess. The only thing that happened is the W went to see the IC that talked to us about our "issue" 2 years ago but never really helped us. W has continued to see her every 2 months and yesterday was the first time since sitch began. And of course last night we go back to square one.
I know I am further along personally but I really was holdin out hope that we were further along M wise as well.
Sorry Sandi I didn't see your post till now.
I am slightly stunned because she is such a rational person who is acting more and more bi-polar. I stayed as neutral as I could during the whole conversation. I didn't get mad but I opened up when she asked me questions. Which is something I need to learn to do more of.
I tried my hardest to keep my comments pressure free. She kept asking me questions about whether I played out our senario and found that it was hard to see us in a good M. I told her that I have thought about the "what if" and it gets me no where so I choose to focus instead of the right now. That I am keeping an open mind to the whole sitch and that I think she should too.
I wanted soooooo badly to tell her that I truly think we are ment to grow old together. We have such an amazing foundation which has not been tarnished by PA, abuse and the likes. Rather we neglected our feelings early in the R and never fully addressed them. Yeah it's going to be hard to work through them now but the base we have should not be squandered.
"It is almost always harder to find and start a new marriage than to fix a current one"
One good thing is the panicky feelings are not there this time. I am feeling more at peace with what could happen. I know I have no control over it and panicing and the rest of the worrying just do nothing but set ME back. So instead I will meditate before work, keep myself occupied and have a great day!
I know my W is hurting right now and I only hope that she can figure herself out and find that spot in her heart that has me in it.
Guy, I didn't see a link to your old thread but did read all your posts in this one. Have you read the Married Man Sex Life Primer? If not you should. It sounds like you're engaging in 100% beta behavior. Your wife wants you to be a mix of alpha and beta. Just based on what I'm reading here which obviously is just a snapshot of your sitch, it sounds like you're going down cheeseless tunnels. Your R is not advancing, it's in limbo. It sounds like your W is waiting for you to take action to bring the passion back, but at the same time you're waiting for her to initiate. The passion isn't going to just magically reappear, you both need to do something to bring it back. This is where MMSLP comes in, it'll give you methods to approach her in very alpha ways that may break you out of this rut. Time to try something different, try a different tunnel and look for the cheese. Remember what Michele said, our natural inclination is to set up a lawn chair next to the cheeseless tunnel waiting for the missing cheese to come back. Ask yourself if that's where you are.
I have another question, you mentioned she was training for a triathalon, so I assume she's in pretty good shape. What about you? Are you ripped or pudgy? If pudgy, time to do something about that. MMSLP will highlight why you cannot let your W be higher than you on the hotness scale. I hadn't engaged in bodybuilding for years, but jumped back into it after getting the bomb. 3 months later I'm looking like an underwear model and man, it's done wonders for my self-esteem. I started doing it with the hopes that it would attract my wife back to me, but it made me feel so much better about myself that now I'm sticking with it for me!
Review your 180's, you may need to modify them since your sitch isn't advancing. Take stock, try and determine what is and is not working and make adjustments. DB'ing is a fluid process requiring constant adjustments.
Good luck!
W has been texting me all day... So many mixed signals. Gahbhhhhhh
So what do I do when MC is saying its good to be affectionate and W isn't at all. I am not being affectionate as well and trying to follow sandi2 rules in regards to not initiatin contact, ILY's etc... So confusing now. Thought I had a great path but not anymore.
So what do I do when MC is saying its good to be affectionate and W isn't at all. I am not being affectionate as well and trying to follow sandi2 rules in regards to not initiatin contact, ILY's etc... So confusing now. Thought I had a great path but not anymore.
That's for MC to communicate with your wife and your "current wife" decides its a good thing to do. Right now she may feel "I cannot make myself FEEL like I want to do it". She may not know that for her to feel like doing "the act", she may have to do the act.
Somehow you have been friend zoned, and many of us became even less than friend zoned, because you wouldn't do your friend like that!
Just A Guy, you have to look at it how she is looking at it. What is the demand you have, to be treated in an intimate fashion? If you look at it like she looks at it, you may find that whatever group of people she associates with that if you can get them to see you in demand, that the current W may come back. Once you get this, you have to hold it.
You don't do it for her, you do it for you. Some materials worth reading "Double your Dating", "No more Mr Nice guy". It basically says that the relationship dymamics in attraction are nearly opposite of what you may expect.
So yes, get back onto GAL mindset. And like you said, you are an attractive and handsome "devil" who can have nearly any woman you want, if that is what you really want. You have to make that reality, not for your W, but for your own piece of mind.
if anyone could understand you attending Retrovaille, it'd be a couple getting married.
Get her there and listen to them. LISTEN carefully.
wear different colognes, b/c it's about you being attractive, NOT attractive to HER,
and maybe wear new different clothes and
please, stop making plans as if you are going to be together. That's futurizing and she's only feeling pressure when you do it.
ACT AS IF YOU GET IT, and stop arguing FOR the marriage. Act like you accept, albeit with resignation, that she wants to ruin her life. NOT YOURS, hers. You'll be happy again no matter what.
And stay warm and upbeat but when pressed, show her that you heard her...
yes, you know, she MIGHT NOT ever want to be with you again,
you know she may not ever FEEL attraction again and of course
you know she has NO control over that and blah blah blah... ( I don't buy that b/c love is at least partly a choice)
at least act as if another woman might find you attractive and that you KNOW it.
Like it's going to be HER loss. And accept that she is confused so you will get mixed signals. That's what confused people send.
And they do "touch and go's" to make sure you are still there, waiting, still, and whenn they fear you might be moving forward, they'll show some affection to make sure they can still reel you in. Sometimes it's more than that, but often it's just a touch and go. You'll know if she pulls back soon after she confirms you are still waiting. Then she backs off again.
Now and then, don't be so available. Be a bit mysterious, please.
25ymlc, if I could hug you through the Internet I would.... I will post Imore tomorrow. To all my DB friends we have it great here on these forums.
Had a great morning with W... Pulling back yet letting her engage me in conversation and doing things together. Then off to work.
I understand the concept of touch and go's. I know that pulling back draws the spouse closer and I know that showing that I am okay and ready to move on creates a sense of urgency and promotes the feelings of losing something great.
I find it's very dificult to do these things while sleeping in the same bed and doing so many great things together. I did however for the past few evenings let her take the lead on everything from initiating conversation to asking questions and it is slowly getting easier to let go of the control and focus on the present and what I am doing for ME.
I have a long road ahead of me filled with potholes and speed bumps but I am enjoying the little victories every chance I can.
Onward to work.
Wife brought me dinner tonight at work, it was nice. She is definitely pulling back right now so that's what I need to do as well to bring her back in.
I am almost hoping for a conflict to arise so I can confront it in a nice way without sweeping it under the rug like I used to. Man I hope it's not to late to have her feel those butterflies for me again.
After work gonna go hang out with a friend. I still don't have many friends who are just my friends. It's hard finding good friends these days lol
I think I am going to join a toastmaster club for fun.
I know what you mean...
H & I had an argument the other night - it was good to get the blood pumping! And it felt like he cared enough to fight!
As for friends: volunteer, join a club, take lessons for something you always wanted to learn - lots of ways to meet people
I know there are. I think part of me is just feeling the pains of GALing and separating myself from the M that was my identity. I truly feel like I am letting to of the fear that surrounds this sitch, the thought of not being with my W makes me more sad than afraid now which I view as progress.
I also have been focusing on a few rules at a time and making them habit then choosing another few and repeat. The goal is the better myself for my next R whether it be with my W or with some one else.
Of course I am still hoping it is with my W but I am no longer fearing the potential split. Sadness but hope.
"it's hard to wait around for something you know might never happen. But it's even harder to let go of something that is everything you have wanted."
Great progress Guy!
And I love the quote - it's so true!!!
Another day begins of pulling back.
How long do I want to do certain things and see if there are any results?
My W is super stubborn and has a LOT of pride I can see getting in the way. Plus she has been focusing on the negative. I know that's normal in sitchs like this but I am choosing to focus on the posative more and more every day and it helps a LOT!
Why wouldn't you focus on the posatives? Focusing on the negatives just makes you feel worse and more hopeless.
I wore a diff cologne yesterday, I haven't smelled that good in years! Tomorrow I am getting my hair cut, this evening I am going mountain biking. I have a lot I am doing on top of focusing on sandi2's rules. I really hope to start seeing some results soon. I know seeing any type of posative reactions would help immensely!
Only you can decide how long you can keep DBing...
But remember, everything you are doing, you are also doing FOR YOU!
In only know from my own experiences that it was almost 7 months before my fog started to clear. And really only started once my H completely detached - he asked me for "closure" which I gave him. I sensed he needed it, like he had someone waiting in the wings. I felt I wasn't ready for what he wanted as R, so I was comfortable in giving him what he needed.
Should I have been honest and said "I still don't know"? He says he was ready to move on if my answer was "no" or "still don't know". The only thing that would've kept him from moving on was if I had said "yes". And I just wasn't there yet. But now he thinks that my feelings now are a complete reaction to the OW.
Stay positive! As a WAW, it helped me to see my H in a positive 'space'. That's when I starting seeing the man I fell in love with...
Thanks Mandy! Did you try and bring your H down when he was being posative? I feel that my W always starts a negative M conversation whenever I feel like we are getting to a better place almost as if to squash those feelings.
I know how long this could take, the MC is goin to have us re-evaluate our commitment to the M in about 2 months. I feel like its neccisary but I also feel that it might not be enough time.
Let her be negative - it's the head space she's in right now.
She needs time and space to shake that off. IF she can...
Try not to let her bring you down. You need to remain positive and upbeat, like nothing will get you down!
Well I am doing as much as I can to remain posative, smiley, laughing and looking/smelling great around her.
I talked to a friend this morning about taking an overnight trip together to NYC this fall.
The issue I forsee with my sitch is that my W is incredibly stubborn and when she gets something in her head hell nor high water can move her. It's funny because it's something I used to love about her, that she stuck to her guns no matter what now it has me sad because I know how difficult it is for her made up mind to change.
I am stubborn too! But eventually I saw past my own selfishness....
It's what kept me from growing and accepting any part of the blame.
It's also what will keep me on this new path until I get "no, not ever".
Hang in there!
As for NYC, it's my favorite city
You should go - enjoy the life and energy it has to offer!!!
Well I am doing as much as I can to remain posative, smiley, laughing and looking/smelling great around her.
Let's reframe this a bit. Picture your life and your W's life as a Venn diagram-2 big circles that overlap. Your life should be about you being positive, smiley, smelling good in the life you are creating in your big circle that she knows very little about except in that small overlap where she is exposed to the new you.
Don't make it that you're doing this for W, you are doing this for you (I hope),because in the end,the only thing you know for sure you will have is you and your life.
I talked to a friend this morning about taking an overnight trip together to NYC this fall.
Great idea, make it happen.
The issue I forsee with my sitch is that my W is incredibly stubborn and when she gets something in her head hell nor high water can move her. It's funny because it's something I used to love about her, that she stuck to her guns no matter what now it has me sad because I know how difficult it is for her made up mind to change.
While I understand your concern, this should in no way affect you creating your life, your big circle. You have no control over what she does, so work on you, make yourself the better option.
Stubborn people are often controlling and have trouble with new ideas and changes, sometimes they are passive/aggressive. Does this describe your W? It doesn't change anything you need to do but I think it's good to be realistic about our spouses and not take all the blame for the R troubles on our shoulders.
I think she is a little passive aggresive but I know she is proud, very proud and when she makes a choice and figures out its wrong it would be very big of her to admit she was wrong.
Today I was supposed to go mountain biking with her uncle but he backed out at the last minute so W said she would go with me instead. I said no that I wanted to watch the football game with some friends instead. I think it caught her off guard and I hope it demonstrates that I need my space and I am willing to do things without her. But man it wanted to just say hell yeah and go biking wih her.
I understand.
Got home W was grumpy and hungry. After I thought about it more I don't know if turning her offer to go mountain biking together was all that great of an idea. I really wanted to go biking but the more I thought about it the less it made sense since its getting dark so early.
So we ate dinner and just finished giving the dogs a bath with a new contraption we got for the shower. It was fun funny and 30 minutes of together time.
So was I wrong for turning down W offer to go biking and watching the football game solo or was it the right call?
I can't decide because I love doing things with W but I feel like I need to pull back more.
Sometimes I feel like I trapped inside some sick twisted relationship game where she is playing one way and I am playing another way and we are both just dancing around all the issues because neither of us wants to give in. I don't want to give into the idea we are through and I feel she doesnt want to give into the idea she was wrong and we can have a passionate M still.
Nutty to me..
Hi Guy,
You should stop thinking of it as a game.
You are doing all this for you. Making everyday decisions based on your thoughts, beliefs and needs.
She will react the way she does, based on the way she thinks, believes & her needs - you have no control.
The idea is that your actions will be noticed & will be attractive to her. And I can tell you that it might just make her mad - at herself! And then she will have to decide how to react & deal with these feelings...
It's complicated - but not a game.
Yeah, I know it's no a game, I just feel like it is at times... I am working hard for me and I know it, if she comes around then so be it. I really hope i can get some posative answers like in your sitch Mandy.. Just wish there was more I could do or as our MC said "I wish I has a magic wand".
We had a decent evening after we ate dinner. W was no longer "grumpy". I stayed upbeat through the whole evening. W pretty much just says "sweet dreams" now instead of ILY or the likes. It's funny because it seems like she is applying DR techniques as well except the opposite reason.
Today is my first day off in 7 days. Nice to be able to do things I need to catch up on and have a relaxing day.
She could be grumpy for many reasons, not just because of you. Remind yourself of that when you have those thoughts.
The positives need to come from you. Sit down every night and write a gratitude list, things you're thankful for.
This is very difficult and it takes a lot of time.
I am grateful for a LOT of things, mostly that I have a chance at having a passionate M with my W. also for my health, job, great family and 2 amazing dogs.
I found myself fantasizing about my W this morning for the first time in a while. Feels good to know that with all that is going on I still have that massive desire for her.
Got a lot on my plate today and I am ready to tackle it all!!
I am grateful for a LOT of things, mostly that I have a chance at having a passionate M with my W. also for my health, job, great family and 2 amazing dogs.
I found myself fantasizing about my W this morning for the first time in a while. Feels good to know that with all that is going on I still have that massive desire for her.
Got a lot on my plate today and I am ready to tackle it all!!
Doesn't it feel good to have a massive desire for your own spouse? Having an OM/OW in the frame is a real esteem crusher.
Uggggggh... W came in talking about goin away for a long weekend again and talking about how she is going to be visiting IC more often. Issue is her IC which we went together to last year is not pro M.
I know that W is going to do what she is going to do and that I cannot and will not do anything to stop her. But I keep having to shove the little monster called "fear" back into its cage.
Uggggggh... W came in talking about goin away for a long weekend again and talking about how she is going to be visiting IC more often. Issue is her IC which we went together to last year is not pro M.
I know that W is going to do what she is going to do and that I cannot and will not do anything to stop her. But I keep having to shove the little monster called "fear" back into its cage.
Best thing you can do in light of this situation is to jump on your own bandwagon. She is going to do whatever she is going to do, there is nothing you can do to control her.
Working on 4-5 of the 37 rules a day. Perfect them over a week or so an then move onto the next few. I feel like I will have a great grasp on most of them in a couple more weeks. Journaling on here and venting helps. It also helps when people get on and give me new ideas and hope.
Hope Is what keeps me going each day. When I wake up and remember what's going on in my sitch it is the hope of being in a passionate marriage with the woman I said forever to... I will however admit that over the past week my feelings of passion for her have been further and more removed.
Day 4 now ILY's from W to me or me to W.
So used to hearing those reassuring words daily. Pain in my heart now...
I still get hugs and have a good day but me pulling back hard hasn't really drawn her in yet. I don't know how long I should keep pulling back without posative results.
Thoughts?
Also I know MC is going to talk about the levels of affection and if they are really low then why. God this [censored], it's ridiculous as well because it doesn't have to be like this.
At least our rings are still on... Hard to find lots of posatives in this sitch...
My friend says I should be more forward with W. that holding all of these emotions back is part of what got us here in the first place and that it's only going to hinder growth. That the passions she is looking for starts with healthy arguments and passionate debates.
I also think I need to find a solid IC as well. I seem to be in dire need of someone who can answer some questions.
IC is great - but they don't answer many questions...they do ask good ones though
Hang in there Guy!
A good IC will make you feel comfortable and safe enough to share your thoughts and fears openly without hesitation.
A good IC will let you talk and talk and will pick up on the important stuff, asking you the questions that are needed to explore your feelings.
The IC is for YOU, their primary concern is your well being.
A good IC will help you gain confidence, reduce stress & open your eyes to things that are right infront of you.
I would have failed my degree this year had I not seeked counselling, my counselor was brilliant for me & I am going to see him again next Tuesday after a break of 3 months.
Good luck in finding an IC
Bill
"I still get hugs and have a good day but me pulling back hard hasn't really drawn her in yet. I don't know how long I should keep pulling back without posative results. "
Any thoughts on this comment I made above? No ILy's of kisses in almost a week now. Should I take the pullback from her as a sign that I am doing something wrong or is a week just too short of a time to judge?
Wow, W said ILY to me on the phone, I think it may have been out of habit but hey I'll take it after 5 days of not hearing it.
I also got a LOT accomplished today and W did up a new budget for us with my new income.
I am off the roller coaster. Even all the little good things which happened today didn't really get my hopes to high and the little bad things didn't bring me down.
I do however feel like I am being put into "friendville" by W.. Is this a concern?
I suggest you don't take advice from family & friends. What your friend to you is what should have been done ages ago. But I promise you that if you stop pulling back and give way to your neediness, you will see her reject you worse than ever.
A week is nothing! A month is nothing! The LBH usually has to stick to the detaching for a long time......before he starts to see the kind of response you're wanting to see.
I would say "Friendville" is a better place to be...better than you being the "enemy"...which is what you could've seemed like to her in the beginning...
Hang in there - one day at a time!
Well this morning I get a peck on the cheek and a nice long hug.. It's amazing how much more I appreciate the small things from my W now that I am in this sitch. She still sleeps as far over on the bed as possible and no ILY's except for a small slip up yesterday but I am holding onto hope.
MC session tomorrow, should be interesting.
"I still get hugs and have a good day but me pulling back hard hasn't really drawn her in yet. I don't know how long I should keep pulling back without posative results. "
Any thoughts on this comment I made above? No ILy's of kisses in almost a week now. Should I take the pullback from her as a sign that I am doing something wrong or is a week just too short of a time to judge?
Try a month of actual pullback. It's nothing fancy, but not thinking about it and doing whatever you should be doing and taking care of yourself. If she is interested she will show interest, but you cannot make her be interested.
Wow, W said ILY to me on the phone, I think it may have been out of habit but hey I'll take it after 5 days of not hearing it.
I also got a LOT accomplished today and W did up a new budget for us with my new income.
I am off the roller coaster. Even all the little good things which happened today didn't really get my hopes to high and the little bad things didn't bring me down.
I do however feel like I am being put into "friendville" by W.. Is this a concern?
ILY, sounds like coming OUT of "friendville".
Yeah but I don't think the ILY was anything more than from habit. Time will tell, I am trying to figure out what time frame to give the different things I am trying and it sounds like 1 month which will be in about 3 weeks whic will also be about when the MC is going to ask W if she is willing to recommit to the M.
I know this sitch can't keep dragging on and on but I hope MC doesn't pop this question prematurely. I can only control what I am doing. And I am doing a lot for myself.
Patience patience patience.
Yeah but I don't think the ILY was anything more than from habit. Time will tell, I am trying to figure out what time frame to give the different things I am trying and it sounds like 1 month which will be in about 3 weeks whic will also be about when the MC is going to ask W if she is willing to recommit to the M.
I know this sitch can't keep dragging on and on but I hope MC doesn't pop this question prematurely. I can only control what I am doing. And I am doing a lot for myself.
Patience patience patience.
Try doing you for "one month" and be busy. Do some masculine things, pick up or add old hobbies. Don't do it as an act or effort to win her, do it because you really want to.
It's funny how things work when you get your full masculine energy back. We LBS get so focused on the WAS we lose alot of our own energy.
The cool thing is when you get your own energy back you will be good either way.
Trying to find masculine things that I will enjoy doing is the hard part. I enjoy public speaking so I want to join a toastmasters club but the only one around is during work hours... So I am going to search other options. I have been taking walks, going mountain biking, working my a$$ off and trying to get this pyrotechnic invention off the ground. I spend maybe 1-3 hours a day with W now compared to 12-14 a month ago.
I know it has helped the pressure on her a little but man the distance of her does not seem to be changing much.
I don’t understand either. In my opinion a pyrotechnic inventor is going to give you a couple of those masculinity points that you’re looking for.
Trying to find masculine things that I will enjoy doing is the hard part. I enjoy public speaking so I want to join a toastmasters club but the only one around is during work hours... So I am going to search other options. I have been taking walks, going mountain biking, working my a$$ off and trying to get this pyrotechnic invention off the ground. I spend maybe 1-3 hours a day with W now compared to 12-14 a month ago.
I know it has helped the pressure on her a little but man the distance of her does not seem to be changing much.
Toastmasters sounds great.
What about fighting? Start up boxing, wrestling or UFC. Don't do it for her, do it for you. There is no way your WAS is going to believe you can box or fight on UFC. She's going to think it's an act till she see's it.
Yeah pyrotechnics is a passion of mine but not really anything W cares for except that she used to enjoy that I was passionate about it if you know what I mean. The whole being and inventor and the fact that we got our second letter of commitment to a large purchase order is nice though.
Liking the idea of boxing or martial arts.. Also going to see how I can swing at least most of the meetings at the local toastmasters..
Went for a walk and W wanted to join me, we walked about 2 miles and talked about our day etc... She also is talking about taking a college course later this year. We did our budget and finances look amazing right now so at least we don't have lot of the outside stressors like children, health, finances or lack of employment.
Fantasies about my W have been going crazy lately. I guess that will happen with 8 weeks of celibacy lol. She is looking better than she has since we have been together, we are keeping each other in line diet and workout wise.
Soooooooooo much good in our R... Its a shame she is focusing on the negatives..
Patience, patience, patience...
"W said ILY to me on the phone, I think it may have been out of habit but hey I'll take it after 5 days of not hearing it."
Actually, the fact that she said it could be a sign that she's still thinking of staying in the M. Especially since she wanted to go walking with her. When most of the WASs are done, they are DONE and don't even want to be in the same room with the LBS. You could try cultivating more good feelings within her to elicit more positive responses. But keep them small. You don't want to lose all contact.
Food for thought.
DLS, "I've been over 2 years without penetration into a vagina. That fighting, if you can fully release your balls and fear will put all of your mojo/manjuice back in you."
WTF. No one wants to hear about that side of your issues.
[quote=MrBond}Actually, the fact that she said it could be a sign that she's still thinking of staying in the M. Especially since she wanted to go walking with her. When most of the WASs are done, they are DONE and don't even want to be in the same room with the LBS.[/quote]
This is great food for thought, Mr. Bond. Thank you for posting it. We all need that encouragement that maybe things are not quite as desparate as we see them or make them out to be.
Small things..... I cook great meals and we eat together almost every night. I am a great cook too. She loves it when I make new recipes. We have been updating our gear so we can do things we used to love doing together or on our own.
I have a feeling she is just guarding herself while not giving me the impression that we are going to be okay. She tells me that she "cannot see us in a passionate marriage, that whenever she thinks about the future of us all she sees is us married as roommates with no desire for me or split up"
It took everything in my power to just nod say I understood and tell her that I am just takin it day by day and keeping an open mind. Then I asks her to do the same and we ended the discussion.
I wish there was a posativity button on her I could push, we have had sooooooooo many passionate times together but you know what they say, it's easier to remember 1 negative experience than 20 posative ones.
Patience patience patience.
What other small things can you a think about which might have helped you friends???
DLS, "I've been over 2 years without penetration into a vagina. That fighting, if you can fully release your balls and fear will put all of your mojo/manjuice back in you."
WTF. No one wants to hear about that side of your issues.
Good morning Mr Bond. The sitch that brought me to this board is over. Just A Guy mentioned being without for 8 weeks. My issue is self imposed, because I would not lay with anyone I wasn't in a serious relation with.
Small things..... I cook great meals and we eat together almost every night. I am a great cook too. She loves it when I make new recipes. We have been updating our gear so we can do things we used to love doing together or on our own.
I have a feeling she is just guarding herself while not giving me the impression that we are going to be okay. She tells me that she "cannot see us in a passionate marriage, that whenever she thinks about the future of us all she sees is us married as roommates with no desire for me or split up"
It took everything in my power to just nod say I understood and tell her that I am just takin it day by day and keeping an open mind. Then I asks her to do the same and we ended the discussion.
I wish there was a posativity button on her I could push, we have had sooooooooo many passionate times together but you know what they say, it's easier to remember 1 negative experience than 20 posative ones.
Patience patience patience.
If she is going to be dating other guys, you are a perfect backup plan. We call them emotional tampons, because no matter what goes wrong in their relationship(s), you will be there for her. It provides validation, esteem boost, and being in the position you will be increasingly doormatted over time.
Over some time period, you will have to insist that if she's going to keep doing this that one of her affair partners will need to take care of her. You will not be helping yourself, by continuing to romance and treat her well. She will be in a cake-eaters paradise. Unless this is what you really want to do for the woman you "love". I would at some point look to taking care of myself.
If she continues dating, she will never learn "there is nothing out there on the streets", unless you let her go.
It sounds like she really enjoys time with you, but compartmentalized passion and sex with the others. Perhaps she has some female friend(s) she shares life this with. Talk to them, they might give you some insight into how much respect they have for you. Your WAS shares this level of respect if she keeps going around them and participating in the affairs.
Being a woman and speaking from my perspective, I wouldn't talk to her friends unless you want to end this fast.
Being a woman and speaking from my perspective, I wouldn't talk to her friends unless you want to end this fast.
True. He won't have a leg to stand on unless she decides to stop listening.
DLS, are you as easily swayed by your friends as you seem to be suggesting JAG's W is? Or am I misinterpreting your words?
DLS, are you as easily swayed by your friends as you seem to be suggesting JAG's W is? Or am I misinterpreting your words?
There aren't many people in this world I would take relationship advice from, other than people from these forums and maybe a good relationship in a church setting.
I am not following or fitting into any herd. I'm saying that many time these cheaters ARE following their friends, who enable the affair.
I'm suggesting that Jag's W has a couple of "friends" who know about the guy. This is almost always the case, and they essentially support her in the decision "as long as it makes you happy". That's how it goes down.
No I don't talk to her friends about this. Her aunt caught me off guard one day when I called to talk to aunts H who is my friend. She said "work on yourself and give her space and everything will work out fine."
Other than that I have this forum and one of my personal friends whom I confide in.
Just had W take negative energy out on me. My dam brother was supposed to watch our dogs for a night and he agreed to do it. Called him yesterday to remind him and he said sorry "he forgot about a wedding he had to attend" so naturally because it was from my family I am getting a nice dose of pissed off from W. thanks brother...
Also W is not talking to anyone or dating anyone else. There is no OM except maybe in her dreamland.
Also W is not talking to anyone or dating anyone else. There is no OM except maybe in her dreamland.
Lucky guy, you know she could do it in reality in 15 minutes! All you have to do is tighten up, get a direction for yourself and everything will work itself out.
Don't take her pissed-offedness
personally. You're probably a bit po'd too, eh?
Roll with it. We sometimes tend to make things about us that aren't really about us.
Your right, she is po'ed at bro and so am I. I ended up making a joke which made her laugh after a few minutes...
Should be an interesting MC session, will update later.
MC session was a meh..... Not really much more.to add to the sitch from it tonight. Time.to go to sleep.
MC keeps saying that she sees many great things between us but also recognizes that its going to take W to figure out why she is viewing separating as an option instead of fixing the issues together.
She told W over the next few weeks to really take some time and recognize what we have together and think about how it would be without those good things.
I know W loves me I can tell, but she is so disenchanted and living in a fantasy that our M should just work instead of making it work. This is something she is going to have to figure out before we can move forward.
Until then I an trying new thisngs for me and pulling backveven further. This morning I got my first "are you okay" while lying in bed silently. I answered with a cordial yes and then went about getting ready for work and having some breakfast together.
I feel very alone today.. I will be alone at work for 5 hours today as well. Gonna need to keepbusy....
Patience patience
MC keeps saying that she sees many great things between us but also recognizes that its going to take W to figure out why she is viewing separating as an option instead of fixing the issues together.
She told W over the next few weeks to really take some time and recognize what we have together and think about how it would be without those good things.
I know W loves me I can tell, but she is so disenchanted and living in a fantasy that our M should just work instead of making it work. This is something she is going to have to figure out before we can move forward.
Can you accept the possibility that the only way your w can "figure out", is by experiencing the singles life, and losing what you have?
B/C it often is...and that's why SOME couples remarry...
she may be on a "mission" she believes can only be achieved one way and you MAY have to release her to her task.
My h truly believed his/our happiness (which he always equated as the same, if HE was happy, why wasn't everyone else??)
lay in living in Alaska, which we did for 4 years....neither I nor any of our children felt the same and the idea that a PLACE wquld have such a hold on him was foreign to me, and deeply painful. (A lot of deceit and weird behavior on his end, followed this but isn't relevant right now.)
Anyhow, he seemed to NEED to go. So I released him to his "task".
I chose not to divorce him then and there, but to I GAL big time, & I assumed he would not return and made a life for me and the kids without him...though I had an unspoken internal deadline in my mind about when I'd be DONE...(when my older d finished high school, which was 2 years.
then he got there, woke up and noticed we were not there and it wasn't so great. In fact it sucked...and then he wanted back in.
I could have said NO WAY, to prove some point. But he was sincere and willing to work on things and once upon a time we had a truly great m, and both would have described it that way.
I had to trust that those memories would re-surface and sure enough, IN TIME (and a lot of it!!) they did. And they outweighed the lure of the wild frontier.
[b]
Until then I an trying new thisngs for me and pulling backveven further. This morning I got my first "are you okay" while lying in bed silently. I answered with a cordial yes and then went about getting ready for work and having some breakfast together.
Sounds like a small but useful interchange. Well done.
I feel very alone today.. I will be alone at work for 5 hours today as well. Gonna need to keepbusy....
Patience patience
Thank you 25ymlc. I needed that wisdom today. Members like you on this board are what make sitches like this easier to deal with.
If it weren't for this board I would have to say I would be.much worse off. "if you love her then let her go" Hard words to let sink in but the alternative is so much worse. Living in a sad relationship would do much worse things over time.
Now I am on a mission to maintain positivity around W at all times. Pull back, look good, do things for me and try to figure out where to go from here. But with my family here and on this forum I know I will make it out of this a stronger person than before.
I still hold hope in us though.
And yes, might be the hardest thing I have ever done in my life but if she needs to go do her thing to figure this out then so be it. Cannot fathom how it will feel but I know I can do it.
I don't feel as alone today. W did a touch and go on me last night and I didn't respond as I normally would have which would have been to try and hold onto the contact as long as I could. Instead I let her put her hand on my chest and say good night and left it at that.
I feel like I need to find more friends in the area because I am still spending too much time with W home together. I love the time we have but I know it's not the helping. Still trying to get a grip on why I did nothing for the past year and a half as I knew we were not recovered from that first bomb....
Today felt like I was living a strange dream. I was doing things I normally wouldn't such as ending conversations, not responding to ILY's like I used to, and we still had a decent day together. I hope this trend continues. Win lose or draw this can be as easy of as hard as I make it.
Man how do some of you do this for years? I keep having the desire to grab my W and start kissing her and in my daydream she feels those butterflies likewe had in the beginning.
In my mind it works out perfectly.
Work out then dinner with W and SIL. Should be a fun night sil is a cool girl who isn't prying.
Gonna make leek and potato soup and light a fire. I have not stopped doing the things I normally do like cooking and watching movies together. We are also getting the internet tomorrow which will help me have things to do on my own in the house.
Feels wierd.. W sat close to me on the couch while we watched a movie, she made sure her hands were crossed or she sat on them so that she didn't have incidental contact with my hands.
She is pulling back more than I am lol.
Had the urge to just make out with her again. Dam feelings.
Man how do some of you do this for years? I keep having the desire to grab my W and start kissing her and in my daydream she feels those butterflies likewe had in the beginning.
Had the urge to just make out with her again. Dam feelings.
Do you know why you have these strong desires? Do you know if she thought she couldn't have you that it would have the same affect on her?
I know sandi. I am detaching more and more each day. Just working again has been huge. And when she tosses ily's and touch and go's my way I do not respond anymore.
That being said we still watch tv, take walks, cook and go to dinner together. It's no where near like we used to be time wise though.
Is that not removed enough?
Is that not removed enough?
It is removed enough, keep it on.
Take today for instance. We had little to no contact all day. None (except for calling her to fill her in on our internet sitch) was initiated by me. She popped an ily in a convo to which I didn't respond. Then we go about our day and at the end of it I come home she goes to work out with sil. We have dinner watch a show, have some desert and now she is taking a shower and we will go to bed.
While I maintained my distance at home and away I am not changing my behavior of what I would do if I were living home alone. Is this detaching or pulling back or am I misinterpreting it?
W is sayin ILY more and more. I got a kiss on the cheek this morning. Hmmmm.... Progress? Maybe IC is helping her through some other issues?
Not putting much stock into it but it's been very pleasant this past week and we have a vacation together this weekend.
That's definitely progress.
Great job.
Yeah and then she calls me just a minute ago asking what the website was that I used to find vacation rentals so she can find a place to getaway for a long weekend. And all of a sudden I feel panicky again. Gaaaah I thought I had this panicky crap done with.
I don't even think it's something worthy of panic mode but I can't shake it. Grrrrr...
I feel like if she takes this "alone" trip I know she is going to enjoy it because she thoroughly enjoys her alone time. And up until recently she hasn't had very much of it.
As much as this is out of.my hands and I know I have to let her to her task it [censored] badly. And during that time I am going.to have to be even more removed and giving of space.
So what's a man to do in this sitch. I know she is.going.to go no matter what I say and I really want to tell her how much I wish she was taking a retreat with me to do some rekindling but I cannot.
And now to sleep... First time in at least 3 years I am going to bed before the W she is staying up to work on her blog and have tea. Funny, seems like I am working on a blog on here lol.
I got the internet set up at home, played with the dogs, made dinner, and cleaned the dishes. Ate with W and watched a show. Now off to bed for me cause I am sleepy..
Gave her a hug gn and turned to the bedroom gave the dogs some gn lovin. Then I realized she started laundry so I hung it up and put the second load in the dryer. Now in bed I start to think about everything. So I am trying.to clear.my thoughts and get really tired so I can just sleep.
One more day of work then camping time!!
Excited about this trip. I think it will be a great time for me to shine and I know W is excited also so it should be fun...
I have better feelings today than yesterday when she told me she is taking an alone .trip
Two more hours till camp time. Sandi, 25yearmlc or anyone else who has been waw have any ideas for me to shine.brightly this weekend?
Night night time.... Going camping tomorrow with family and W. We have sil taking care of our dogs. Watched an episode of bones tonight which was all about making relationships work after something has changed in the R. Was good to watch a show promoting positivity with sticking with it and working through issues.
Hope to update you all with some positive updates after the weekend.
Soooooo I was doing a search on google with W phone to get directions while in the car with W and BAM! Up pops the last search she did on her phone. "What is a trial separation". And there comes the panicky feelings again... I know it was just a search but gosh darnit I was hoping I would not see stuff like that. I don't check her phone or her emails etc... But of course I would inadvertently see this at the beginning of the trip making it even more difficult to shine this weekend while that's on my mind.
WTH!! It's not that difficult. Just make the choice to work on US! Slight anger bubbling now, need to sooth and calm down before it begins showing up outside.
She is talking about going back to college while we are in the car and she just said "i feel like I already am stretched thin and so I am going to have to work hard on time management but I know I can make it work"
So you know you have to make things work in almost any other aspect of your life but when it comes to our marriage you think you shouldn't have toi "make it work"? Kinda seems like a double standard to me... And now I am thinking about OM and how she doesn't feel that way abound me right now because she chooses to focus on the negative...
Ticked off.....
I can't tell you how "not" to have those panicky moments b/c it's emotions that nobody has control over except you. Of course, you are very aware of that fact and that's why you get angry at yourself when it happens.
You wanted some tips on how to use this occasion on the camping trip to really shine. Okay, after seeing how you feel a sense of being set back when you get the panicky feelings and especially anything on her phone that could have a link to OM......I will base my suggestions on that information. You may be expecting too much out of the camping trip, and if so....you'll set yourself up for a big disappointment. Your emotions are extreme right now….and you're reacting accordingly....which is not good.
Things happen....that's a fact of life! Words are said that shouldn't be spoken.....and things "do" go wrong. Seldom does everything go perfectly.....especially when the MR is under such a huge amount of stress. So, in order for her to see you really shine; you have to "expect" this stuff to happen.....every day, all day long. Now, I know what you're thinking. B/c you are an optimist and you don't like anything negative, right? When I tell you to expect these things, I don't see it as being negative, but instead it's being "prepared" with an alternate plan. The LBH has to stay on his toes by not getting caught up in some dream trip where everything is going to be wonderful and might even lead to other things. You have to go into it like a challenge.
What would you do if some part of the camping gear didn't work? I bet you could quickly think of an alternative plan of action. In order to shine, you do the next best thing, under the circumstances, and you show that it doesn't change your attitude. You "will" have a good attitude and you "will" look at unexpected problems as an "adventure" and carry on as such. If it rains all day, you show how much fun it can be to stay indoors, or under a tent, or whatever. But you turn it into a great time. You make great memories.....regardless of what else is going on or who might be in a bad mood.....you don't allow it to affect your mood or attitude. This is such a great teaching lesson for kids to see how an adult handles things when it goes against the plan. What does daddy do when he's disappointed? How does daddy act when things go wrong? That’s why bad behavior is often passed down to kids. I'm getting a little bit away from the subject, but not too far, b/c your W will be affected whenever she sees you giving these life teaching experiences to her children. And when her children are happy, and she sees a fun & respective exchange between the kids & her H.....it has a big affect in her heart.
I have actually put this "technique" (or whatever you want to call it) into practice many, many times and it never ceases to amaze me when I make the most of a bad situation... and how my "choice" to have a great attitude in that situation, had such a positive effect on those around me. I do not recall a single time that I walked away regretting how I handled myself in the situation.
Don't misunderstand and don't be confused with the advice of not controlling another person. I'm not talking about trying to be in control over every circumstance. However, I hope you know the difference from trying to control your W's life from what I'm talking about here. That's another subject for another time.
Stepping up and taking charge is an attractive quality about men. When a man is a H and a father, the opportunity always presents itself for him to show his leadership. To me, that always makes a man shine!
So, a camping trip should offer the opportunity for any man to show his family how a man should fill every day to the best of his abilities......regardless of what that day may try to throw at him.
I hope what I said made sense, and I hope anyone who reads this will realize that every day is like a camping trip.
Thanks Sandi. I have have had great chances to shine this weekend so far and I have taken full advantage of these chances, I am also playing the mimic game. If she is acting distant I will find things to do being away from her. If she is acting upbeat and happy I will feed more happiness around her. I am trying to work on patience now as well because I keep feeling that crazy attraction to her. She changes around me she always dresses nicely and looks good plus she's in the best shape of her life right now.
When I see "what is a trial separation" on her phone its hard to focus on the differences I can make right now. I try and I still stay upbeat and am having a great time but man it's hard to stay on track.
We have a wedding we are going to next weekend too that should be fun.
Still hoping. Still patiently working. Still in it for the long haul.
Anyone have any experience with a trial separation?
So touch and go's continue. Was a great last day camping and we had a great morning and lunch with family. Now we are on our way home both tired and in need of showering..
Strange thing happened last night. My cousin asked W what she saw in me that attracted her to me. She responded with "he was really good looking, funny, smart and I didn't have to worry about him being one of those a-hole guys" I looked at her smiled and we held hands for a few minutes. Talked around the campfire some more and went to sleep.
Gosh how I long to kiss her and hold her all night. This morning I had inadvertently rolled over on my side and started spooning her. I woke up to her rolling over to get out from under me. :-( so she is just not near that point yet.
Patience, next weekend will be interesting.going to a wedding.
I love her with all my heart..
Sooooooo tired, W acting super distant all ride home. She gave me a few more touch and go's earlier in the day but after that she really was distant, not wanting to walk next to me, not.really looking at me. Hurts, but I know it doesn't mean anything different than what I already know is going on. I didn't get a single kiss this weekend a bit disappointed there but I know that she will work this through and I know I am a great, guy who treats his W well and is loyal.
W is also feeling low immune system wise, I hope she doesn't.get.sick right before this wedding.. I want it to be a fun time for the two of us.
I gotta find more more time out as well. It's going to pay large dividends.
Time to finish unpacking then it's shower and nighty nigh for.me.
Tired today... Work is good helping the day go by. Chicken and rive soup tonight and some great sleep.... W is cordial as usual bit still distant today. Acting as a friend or a roommate more than anything else.
well, I guess my sep was, in effect, a "trial" separation. I assumed it was a prelude to a divorce, but we're married, so, there you go.
if you think she'll stray or want to, understand that you being with her 24/7 won't change that.
My gosh, You need to detach SO MUCH MORE...and what are you GAL activities? What new people or groups are you meeting?
btw, I fear the wedding will provide you with the opposite of what you are expecting and hoping for.
Instead of her feeling closer to you, or the "Old sparks" flying back in, which might happen--
she MAY instead feel that she's "lost that loving feelin'" b/c she'll see a happily married couple ON their wedding day, and wonder why she isn't feeling the same thing.
So keep your expectations realistic.
Plan on dancing with OTHER people (and maybe your w, too),
be upbeat and happy, esp since it's someone else's wedding day, and
do NOT drink too much,
and socialize periodically w/others. Be independent of her and show her what a great guy you are even if she doesn't get it. Don't hang around her too much.
Hopefully your w will feel close to you but I would not count on it.
She's on a mission, or thinks she is.
I'd back off and act as if she's playing with fire and you'll feel bad if she gets burned -
but you KNOW you cannot spend any energy on trying to stop it, and you KNOW you'll be fine no matter what. HER loss!
Make sense?
Yup makes sense... Detaching from her in the house has been easier.. I don't hang around her anymore. I am also waiting for her to suggest things such as watching a show etc...
I know I have no control over what happens at the wedding and I know I will be an upbeat happy guy there. I have no expectations but I do have hope...
Hope has saved my butt so much lately, and even more so I have changed it from hope that W and I will work to hope that I will have a great and fulfilling R someday soon. Whether it be with or without her .
Of course I hope it is with her..
The hardest part is I almost think this would be easier if we were not living in the same house but I hate the idea of separating.
25, great advice again. Just a Guy, have a great time.
I will have a great time! You know what else, today I had a customer who came in and she asked me if I was married because she had the woman of my dreams to set me up with and that finding a guy who Cooke, cleans, is a loyal person and has a kind heart is next to impossible to find. She then said that since I was good looking.to boot my wife was a lucky lady. I tod heryes I was married and thank you for the compliments.. The lady brouht her granddaughter in anyways about 2 hours later and told me that her GD thought I was really attractive lol. We all had a laugh and I thanked her for coming into my store.
What it told me was that I am a catch. What it also helped me feel was that I am going to be okay. I am not.going to stray from my marriage but I know win or lose I will be okay.
Bittersweet reality...
W been showing less and less affection and attention at home. Definitely need to detach more and.more. grrrr lol. Why can't this be easier.
Got a lot to talk about at the MC next week lol.
I think W is getting closer and closer to that "done" point. Little things she was still doing are slowly.being eliminated and coldness is taking its place.
I have come to grips with the fact that she might just have to try and complete her mission, but today hurts.
Last night W and I had a good dinner then watched some shows. She sat with her arms crossed all night long.
Got a question, MC asked us to do a "weekly checkup" talk with each other. Since then we have done it once with just so so results. Next MC session is 22nd. Should I try and have some discussions with W as directed by MC before next session?
Also W's bday is in two weeks. I have a non romantic gift that I know she will use that I am buying for her. I am debating on whether to get her a card or not and if I do I know I will not get a romantic one, I might just make one.
I am working out tonight. Gonna be a tough one but I am getting in the best shape of my life.
Also W's bday is in two weeks. I have a non romantic gift that I know she will use that I am buying for her. I am debating on whether to get her a card or not and if I do I know I will not get a romantic one, I might just make one.
I am working out tonight. Gonna be a tough one but I am getting in the best shape of my life.
Don't know about bringing up the MC homework. Wait til later for sure. You have almost 3 weeks, right? Why so infrequent?
I wish you'd either go to Retrovaille and get it started in one weekend so you can jumpstart this marriage -
or go to Essential Experience on your own, on the east coast (don't know where you live though but check out their website).
Since Individuals can do it, you don't need her to come or agree. It's very clarifying and strengthening and a lot of DBers have found it VERY helpful.
it's not just for marriage r's though, but for your whole life. Like taking a scenic overlook to decide where you are and where you really want to go.
I thought it was the single most profound workshop experience of my life. H went to it after I did, solely b/c he saw changes in me. He's not the type to do something like that without knowing it works.
As for the birthday card, you can thank her for being in your life, like a CLOSE friend...or someone who might be moving away.
It's "real" but it's not pursuit. Express no regrets or sadness.
But Show that you are in a good place. (SHE can contrast that card with previous year's if she wants...when she's not with you and has time to think clearly).
Try hard to NOT be in a state of fear.
The more you let fear dictate your emotions, the more you'll radiate that.
You will be alright after all is said and done b/c you are working on YOU.
She may have a rude awakening down the road but you have already had yours. Honestly, if you become the man you were meant to become,
your next r, with or without h, will be a lot more rewarding and SOLID than this one has been.
Do you see that it IS possible for you to be happy without her?
Can you envision what that life, "happy, but without her", looks like?
Be detailed & specific in your imagination...
what are you doing in your new life, who are you hanging with, what job do you have, where do you live, what new hobbies or passions are you pursuing...
So, which of those^^ things, can you create in your life, NOW?
I think the next retrouville is in the spring. I will try and find a way to get her to go willingly. I would love to do it in a way which she thinks it's just as much her idea as mine.
And yes I do see myself able to be happy without her. It has been over the past 2 weeks that it has dawned more on me.
I don't like the idea but I know I would be okay. Might take me a few months to pull myself together but I have a lot to keep me busy.
As far as our MC sessions. They have been every 7-10 days but this time we were on vaca and MC was as well the next week so it's a little further apart. What I would really like to do would be to go to a 4 day couples intensive weekend like retrouville or maybe even one.on.one.
Tired of this dragging already. But still patient and have my eye on.the prize...
I think W is getting closer and closer to that "done" point. Little things she was still doing are slowly.being eliminated and coldness is taking its place.
Sounds very similar to my sitch. After BD W was still showing some warmth towards me but as time went on she just kept getting colder and colder. I think it's their way of preparing themselves for the S. We went to MC, but she latched onto anything to justify her leaving and ignored the other 95% that would have contributed to saving the M. She said over and over again that she was done. Loved me, respected me, enjoyed my company, even still enjoyed sex, but no hope for the M.
Got a question, MC asked us to do a "weekly checkup" talk with each other. Since then we have done it once with just so so results. Next MC session is 22nd. Should I try and have some discussions with W as directed by MC before next session?
In my sitch we were advised the same by MC and it absolutely did not help. It may have hurt. It's the opposite of DB.
Also W's bday is in two weeks. I have a non romantic gift that I know she will use that I am buying for her. I am debating on whether to get her a card or not and if I do I know I will not get a romantic one, I might just make one.
My W's birthday was just before she moved out and I was torn on what to do. In the end I gave her a nice bday with several gifts, cake, dinner, etc. because it just seemed like the right thing to do. I don't regret it. I did make a point to get a friendly, non-romantic card though.
I am working out tonight. Gonna be a tough one but I am getting in the best shape of my life.
I started hitting the weights hard right after BD. I'm impressed with the mass and definition I've put on in 3+ months, just goes to show that you're never too old for it
W initiated contact again today. Gonna pick the dogs up and go for a trail run with them. They are such great therapy and I am so lucky to have them in our lives during this sitch.
Upcoming things I am going to be going out of town, looking into essential experience, working out more, visiting with friends and really delving into this startup biz. We already have almost $50K in purchasing agreements. If it gets much bigger it.could become full time.
Lots to do.
Took the dogs for a trail run behind our house... Killer.workout and they enjoy it.
"there's still tomorrow forget the sorrow"
I have a TON to be thankful for!
Watching the sun rise over the lake we live on.... So peaceful, lucky to have my health and my best friend in the house even though she is not there as my wife she still is a great friend.
W just messaged me that she booked her week long retreat. How should I respond to it? I responded indifferent about it at first now she is being short with me lol. But I don't feel right telling her I'm glad about it when I think it's the wrong.way.to figure this out.
Also W was talking about taking the dogs. But I know I can take care of them while I am still working. I don't want her to take them because then I will be without her and them for a week...
I still think she is going about this trip with the wrong mindset. If she feels relieved, which of course she will because she won't be in as uncomfortable of a sitch, then of course her natural instinct is going.to be that we are better apart.
If you have a car that has a set of bad tires and needs a set of brakes but the 95% remaining are in great shape you don't scrap the car you fix the little things and keep it going.
God now I am controlling those panicky feelings but it feels so bad, like I am holding onto her for dear life... Wow that's a lot of needless worry I have to let go of still.
Watching shows together with the boys on my lap. Love it.
get yourself to Essential Experience asap and I mean YOU, not her.
She's doing her own thing, so why don't you? Trust me, going to it will make the panicking stop and you'll be more confident and at peace with you, then ever.
it's quite profound.
The next one isn't until Feb of 13'
At the wedding, W has cried twice already....
Expectations are low, but lots of talk about our M and Wedding. Lol. Man this is strange. I will continue to be upbeat, happy and enjoyable to be around. I am projecting positivity.
Real time journaling. Lol. Slow danced with W didn't even try for it. Sorta just happened. Was nice.
Sooooooo last night definitely did not have any expectations but I definitely did feel very down towards the end of the night. I didn't show it and I was the poster boy for happy to lucky. I talked and hung around multiple people and made sure to have a good time.
W and I slow danced a song and it felt amazing. I miss her so much.
More and more I have this underlying feeling that she wants this to be over, but she keeps talking about future plans and ideas. It's sooooooo mixed.
I know people talk about letting go of the rope. How do you all know when your getting to that point?
I don't want to move out, I don't want to leave our bed, but I know I will eventually start to be resentful and mad and I don't want that either. Such crazy emotions this sitch has me going through.
My mother who is battling cancer for a second time came in to visit me at work today... Something about the whole sitch and her sitch with cancer and.I almost started balling.
Tough times ahead me thinks, gonna need a lot of support to stay strong.
it's okay to need support. Be clear expressing that.
Not necessarily from your w, but from your friends and family AND in today's world there are so many resources available in each community, avail yourself of them.
Cancern support groups are great. Try one.
As for the wedding, I'm glad you put the needs of another couple on THEIR wedding day, ahead of your pain. Good.
Don't try to mind read so much. If your w cried, who knows what that means? I can see it as a bad sign OR as a good one.
Back off and focus on YOU and what you are going thru, not what she is.
You just cannot know. So it's wasteful for you to worry about what you cannot know OR control.
What are you going to do to GAL this week?
Got my hours cut in half at work today. Lol, good times... Already found ways to supplement the income plus I will be able to focus more on the startup biz.
So it's been same ole same at the homefront, I decided to look into toastmasters as well as karate. Both are close by and non conflicting with work.
I will be going to the first free class on Thursday I think.
I will also be going to Cleveland for the startup biz end of month, right before W goes on her solo "clarity" retreat. This will provide a large window of separation between us and some time for me to detach.
Also with my hours being halved now I can work on some other projects while I wait for my hours to return before the holidays.
I received W's bday present today, I know she will love it. It's one of those thoughtful presents that she prolly has forgotten she even told me about.
Sigh.... Patience....
Anyone got any ideas on what else to do right now?
I am GALing , trying different 180's, detaching and visualizing the best I can be. I think it would be hard to get her to a retrouiville as she is not interested in anything religious.... I know its not really a religious retreat but it would still turn her off that it's a Catholic thing.
Anyone have any ideas of another retreat or anything?
I am looking into EE myself for next year..
First, about your mom. This can be a HUGE reality check for you. Enjoy the people you have in your life to the fullest!
Also, about a retreat. How about couples counseling? or have you tried that already??? sorry I'm just reading from what you wrote on this page.
Have a good nite.
Couples counseling has been going on for about 2 months now. MC says "W needs to figure this out instead of dragging it on for a long time" MC also says that we "have all the fundamentals of a healthy thriving M and that the lack of desire for me by W can be solved IF W commits to M".
She also knows that it could take lots of time to get to how she used to desire me. I think that scared W because neither of us have been happy sexually for a while.
The problem I am feeling is that I see no real change in W with anything I have been doing the past 6 weeks especially.
Be patient. These things take time. Also, have you heard the book ILYBINILWY? If you're still living together and no OM in involved it might help. I also really like The Love Dare Journal.
Read the reviews. They're good books. I wish all the best!
Working on computer systems at W's work to get some hours in since I just got ALL my hours cut at job...
While here fil mentions W's solo trip. Made me think to myself if W has told him or not... I will have to ask her, I will be very upset if she let her fil know yet I have been keeping all this from my family at her request...
I just want this to be over with already. Almost 3 months into it, feels like yesterday I was this panicky little baby. Now I feel more empowered and confident.
Making pancakes together for dinner, then watch a movie and hang.
I am going to a friend's house on Sunday for football and to catch up and general guy time. I have lowered my expectations of our sitch and have really started working more on me, this week has been tough with work laying me off but I know I will pull through it..