Okay, so I am new here and I am not entirely sure how things work. So I guess I will just go ahead and tell my story and see how things go from there.
About three weeks ago my wife kicked me out and filed for divorce. I was blindsided by this because I knew we had our problems but I never realized that things were that bad. The last three years have been particularly rough for us because I lost my job and have been attending school in another state while she stayed home to work and take care of our five kids.
The reasons that she gave me for wanting the divorce is that I scare her when I get angry, she doesn't trust me anymore, and she is ready to move on. I admit that I have struggled with my anger since I lost my job. My entire self worth was tied up in my job and being a provider for my family. Even going back to school to get a law degree did not help because that actually drove home just how helpless I was to be a provider for them. But I have never raised a hand to my wife or any of our children in anger and so I felt that what I was doing did notaffect them. I was wrong.
The trust issue is tied up in two different things. First is that I have had an issue with telling lies when I was afraid that telling the truth would anger someone. That evolved as a defense mechanism when I was a kid growing up in an abusive household. I knew that if mom and dad got angry that meant that I got hurt so I would lie to them to avoid being abused. Although my wife was never abusive to me, once you develop a pattern of behavior like that it is hard to get out of.
The second is that I have struggled off and on with an addiction to pornography since I was 18. I will not get into all the details of how it started but it is something that I have struggled with and have found to be very difficult to overcome. When I finally confessed it to my wife she was heartbroken, and she has every right to be. I am ashamed of what I have done and I wish that I could take it back.
I really want to save my marriage, but I don't know how. I have arranged for counselling but my wife won`t come with me so I just go on my own and the therapist and I work on my issues. I have broken just about every one of Sandi2's 37 rules at least a half dozen times trying to get her to work on things and try and come to some reconciliation. At first she was open to the idea but as the weeks go by she has become increasingly closed off. I could really use help and an outside perspective on what I should do. Please, anything you can do to help me is greatly appreciated.
Welcome to the board.
Get the DR book and read it.
Well 1st thing is stop breaking all of the 37 rules.
If you are going to make changes then start making them for YOU not to win her back.
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
hello NADCARDaddy. It seems like we are both on timetables here. I just convinced my wife to postpone our D for a little longer. I hope it works out for both you and me.
Actually the State of UT has given me the 90 days, not my W. One of the really smart things are state legislature did was to recently change the law so that after the response period there is a 90 day waiting period before the court will even look at a divorce petition.
I am not sure how to detach. That is one of the reasons I came here looking for advice. My pastor and my therapist have both told me basically the same thing as far as detaching but I am not sure how to.
GAL is also some thing that is very difficult for me right now. Being unemployed has made things harder because I do not even have that to take my mind off of things.
I know that she is not sure about the whole thing, even though she is working hard to convince herself and everyone else that she is at peace with her decision. When I try to talk to her and get specifics about why she feels the way that she does she breaks down emotionally and tells me that she doesn't want to talk about it and that she is dying inside. My therapist has said that this is a good sign because he believes that it means that she is still questioning things.
The other thing that my therapist pointed out is that she is actually trying to give me feedback even if it doesn't seem that way. Every time that she tells me that she can't give me a chance because she can't trust that I will make her and our kids feel safe, or that she can't trust that I will not look at pornography anymore, etc., she is actually telling me what changes she wants me to make and what she needs to see in order for her to want to take me back. I am just not sure how to demonstrate these changes considering we are separated and I see her for maybe 20 minutes a day two or three times a week.
I do have one question that is related to board operations and not to my situation. Is there any way that I can set it up to receive e-mail notification when there are new posts in threads that I am following?
Dont have much for you, but I was at a 60 day time table a year ago. We ended up postponing the divorce, and a year later we are working on the marriage still. Don't worry too much about the timeline, there's been plenty of 11th hour miracles around here, even some post divorce recoveries. What's more important is maintaining your composure, and your sanity.
Now I'm pretty big on the whole empowerment part, especially helping guys regain their sense of control in their lives. Just in case your wondering what my angle is.
For now my best recommendation is to be the best man you can be. Are you working out? Any hobbies to keep you busy? I hope you haven't let your personal appearance go to crap; still dress well?
I know the whole job part is hard, but the ability to provide stability is pretty key IMHO.
As for the anger, you have taken responsibility for it. Good, now it's time to show your W.
Show NOT tell. In these situations it's best to Show your W your actions not tell her. Let's just say you are a sloppy dresser, don't tell her your changing your wardrobe just buy the stuff and wear it. Don't even bring attention to it, let her comment on it not you.
This should be your basic philosophy.
Be the man you want to be, let people know through your actions, and actions alone.
Good luck and keep us posted.
I have started walking to lose weight, but I have never really been one to workout. As far as hobbies go, I really don't have any. I used to play paintball but there is nobody around here that plays anymore so I haven't been out to play in a couple of years. Mostly I just enjoy curling up with a good book. I still dress as well as I did before we separated, and I have actually been taking more care of my personal appearance than I did prior to separation.
As far as the job front goes, I had an interview with a place run by my church today and I am on the top of their list for job assistance. However, that will still take a month or two before a position opens up and then they only provide employment for six months.
As for showing her about my anger, I'm not sure how to do that. I only see her for about 20 minutes a day and that is only for one or two days a week right now. Beyond the ride between her work and my brother's apartment twice a day she will not spend any time with me at all.
Right now I am not really sure what direction things are going to take. I pray quite often that she will soften her heart and give us another chance. Meanwhile, she is telling me that I have destroyed our family, which is hard for me to hear even if she doesn't mean it, because I feel like I am the one working to preserve our family.
There are really two issues that I am struggling with how to deal with. The first is that over the last two weeks she has taken to accusing me of only seeing her as a sex object. I am not entirely sure where this accusation is coming from. she was my first(yes I am a little embarrassed to admit that I was a virgin at age 24) and even then she was the one who initiated intimacy in our relationship. She has said that it is because of my problems with pornography, but I feel like there could be more to it than that. She has admitted that she was with another guy before we were married and he basically just used her and then dumped her. She has also hinted at having been molested by a cousin when she was younger but she has never said anything directly regarding that. I am not sure what I can do to prove it to her but I have never regarded her as such.
The other issue is that while I am watching the kids I try and do service projects around the house for her. This is because after reading "The Five Love Languages" and taking a quiz that our therapist assigned us I figured out that her love language is acts of service. I have been trying to show her that I love her in non-verbal ways and that I appreciate everything she does for our family. I don't expect that she would change her attitude overnight, but I do wish she would recognize that I am trying to do things to make amends. Struggling with feeling of being unappreciated is one of the things on my side of the marriage that led to problems to begin with.
"The first is that over the last two weeks she has taken to accusing me of only seeing her as a sex object."
She's relating this to your porn addiction. She thinks that because you watch porn, that's the way you see her as an object. Women don't believe that men can separate the two sometimes. That's why she's equating you with her former abusive partners.
In that case, you have to put your foot down to tell her that you are not like the abusive men in her past and that while you did view porn, you respect her and the addiction has nothing to do with anything she's done.
"but I do wish she would recognize that I am trying to do things to make amends."
Ain't going to happen. Or at least any time soon. Do the things because you want to do them with no expectations of anything in return.
"Struggling with feeling of being unappreciated is one of the things on my side of the marriage that led to problems to begin with."
That's why you GAL to get the feeling of being appreciated back beause your W isn't giving it to y0ou right now.
How old are you and your W now?
How long have you two been married?
How long have you two been married?
We just had our 15th anniversary last week. I have tried to talk to her about the porn issue but she just shuts me down and will not talk to me at all. Like I mentioned before, the therapist believes that the fact that she breaks down emotionally when I try to talk to her about the issues is a good sign and means that she is still questioning her decision. He has recommended that I just pull back from her completely for now and focus on fixing myself and working on my relationship with my kids.
So is there a reason why you keep wanting to talk about the porn issue? Are you still addicted? In what way was it affecting your M?
I keep wanting to talk about it because she keeps bringing it up as a reason she cannot trust me. I am not still addicted and she did not even know about it until I confessed it to her about two weeks before she filed. I have not looked at porn in about five years. For some reason though the trust issue seems to always come back that that. In order for us to be able to put the pieces of our marriage back together she is going to have to trust me, and to do that we are going to have to deal with the issue at some point.
Well I'm not exactly sure why you felt like you had to bring up something that she didn't know you had and had kicked 5 years ago. But since you did, it matches all of her patterns. She blames you for all the bad that the other men in her life did to her.
You have to break that pattern.
At the time it seemed like a good idea. Plus I had discussed the issue with my pastor about a year ago and he had told me I should tell my wife then and I did not. There is a lot of things that I have done over the past couple of months that seemed like a good idea at the time but that I wish I could take back now. And to be honest, I am not exactly sure that she did not know about it. It was just not something that she had brought up to me until I confessed it.
I am not sure how to break the pattern.
Are you initiating these relationship talks or is your wife?
If so, stop and refer back to the 37 rules that you said you have already read and broke numerous times.
Their are no magical words that are going to instantly resolve this. You need to show your wife through consistant actions the changes that you want to make to be a better person.
Take this time to really analyze where you are and the things about yourself that you would like to change.
Have you read DR?
I was the one initiating the talks. The last one was on Sunday before I found this site. Since then I have avoided contact with her as much as possible.
I have not read DR. I have read lots of other books in a similar vein and my therapist has DB prominently displayed on his book shelf. However getting a copy of DR is difficult since my money is non-existent and our joint checking account was stretched thin even before all of this started.
Stop initiating the talks and find a way to get the book.
Will your therapist let you borrow it? How about the library or try a used book store. I think I got mine on amazon used for like $10?
The library does not have it, but I could see if my therapist would let me borrow his copy.
In the meantime you can read the first chapter. Its on here somewhere or maybe on the main part of the website.
Nascar, I feel for you man!! Believe me, I do know what you’re going through. I have a lot of my shortcomings and I am no veteran to this site however I am somewhat observant and there’s a few things that stood out to me.
First off, work on finding a job. It sounds like you are but maybe you need to do more. No excuses, find something. It might help get your mind off your sitch. A little money probably wouldn’t hurt either. Also work on GAL, if you don’t have many friends, find them. If you’re not outgoing, work towards it. You seem like you’re ready to fight. You seem like you’re ready to push yourself.
I am glad you found this site. There’s a lot of caring and helpful people here. It sounds like you have an open mind, that’s great! You’re going to need it if you want to learn and improve. My prayers are with you my friend.
Rough
Me(M):38
W:43
Together: 14 Married: 11
D:4 S:8
W wanted separation 5/5/12
Stopped living together 5/5/12
Currently DB’ing
“Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude”.
Thomas Jefferson
I really do want to fight for my marriage, but I don't know how. One of my big concerns is that by her filing and only having 96 days now until the court will consider the petition is that if I don't try and get her to sit down and talk about things I feel like I am in a game where the clock is running but my team is not allowed to take the field. I am worried that if I don't push her to work on things that inertia will set in and the divorce will just happen, not because we could not work things out but because we just never got around to trying. That scares me because I still love her and I know that deep in her heart she still loves me. How do I deal with that anxiety? Because I am sure that no matter how much I GAL and detach that sense of frustration and desperation will continue to come through and maybe keep pushing her further away.
Another concern for me is that I found out last week from a mutual friend that she has been posting on dating sites that she is looking for men to date. I am not sure that I can keep things together and fix our marriage if she is already out looking for other guys two weeks into this process.
Nascar I found this and thought it my be helpful to you. Let her go.
Rough makes a good point. Find some work, anything. Stop worrying about what W is doing it's not helpful.
Letting Go
Author unknown
To "let go" does not mean to stop caring, it means I can't do it for someone else.
To "let go" is not to cut myself off, it's the realization I can't control another.
To "let go" is not to enable, but to allow learning from natural consequences.
To "let go" is to admit powerlessness, which means the outcome is not in my hands.
...
To "let go" is not to try to change or blame another, it's to make the most of myself.
To "let go" is not to care for, but to care about.
To "let go" is not to fix, but to be supportive.
To "let go" is not to judge, but to allow another to be a human being.
To "let go" is not to be in the middle arranging the outcomes, but to allow others to affect their own destinies.
To "let go" is not to be protective, it's to permit another to face reality.
To "let go" is not to deny, but to accept.
To "let go" it not to nag, scold or argue, but instead to search out my own shortcomings, and correct them.
To "let go" is not to adjust everything to my desires but to take each day as it comes, and cherish myself in it.
To "let go" is not to criticize and regulate anybody but to try to become what I dream I can be.
To "let go" is not to regret the past, but to grow and live for the future.
To "let go" is to fear less, and love m
I really do want to fight for my marriage, but I don't know how. One of my big concerns is that by her filing and only having 96 days now until the court will consider the petition is that if I don't try and get her to sit down and talk about things I feel like I am in a game where the clock is running but my team is not allowed to take the field. I am worried that if I don't push her to work on things that inertia will set in and the divorce will just happen, not because we could not work things out but because we just never got around to trying. That scares me because I still love her and I know that deep in her heart she still loves me. How do I deal with that anxiety? Because I am sure that no matter how much I GAL and detach that sense of frustration and desperation will continue to come through and maybe keep pushing her further away.
You can't push her NB. The only way to get her back is to let her go.
The following was just posted this a.m. on another thread about going dark, see what resonates with you.
"Going dark is the chance to work on you and to allow the spouse that left you to go through the journey they need to go through. If you start butting into that when they have made it clear that they don't want to be with you, then you come off as someone who is not honoring their request. You are short-circuiting the journey they have to go through to work out what is going on inside themselves.
There was obviously something very wrong that made them decide they wanted out in the first place. Oftentimes, it is probably the case that they are depressed and they have lost faith that anything can ever change. That patterns are set and are not reversible. It's a sign of depression to feel this kind of hopelessness.
One thing they knew for sure was that they did not want you in the picture. When people are depressed and confused about their identity like many people who request separations are, they become cognitively disorganized and impulsive in their choices. And when you are coming at them trying to make them stay with you, it just feels bad and like there's a pressure there to stay where they were.
And they don't want to stay where they were. They are wanting big changes. And if you stay the same as you always have been, and are unwilling to allow them to go on the journey that they need, or you are setting agendas about how they need to be, you just look like a controlling wench or [censored]. You become a representation of what they were trying to get away from.
As long as you keep pressuring them, you don't stand a chance. You will remain the embodiment of those bad feelings they are having. You will be something to avoid. You will make it very easy for them to continue to project or blame you for the bad feelings that reside inside of them.
If they are alone with those bad feelings still lingering inside, and you are nowhere in the vicinity, then perhaps they will begin to see that the pain they were feeling was really about something unhealed inside of them rather than something about you. You need to cut that link between bad feelings and you.
If you want there to ever be a future between you and your spouse, I believe you have to let your spouse take the journey that is rightfully theirs, even if they way they are communicating that to you [censored]. Even if it hurts like nothing else you've ever felt. If you love them, you have to let them go through that.
And you can't keep looking over to see if they are done yet. It's suffocating. Instead, this is your chance to learn new things. Walk around in your feelings and see what is unhealed in you that makes it so easy for you to feel crazy about this crappy situation in which you find yourself.
You have the gift of time now, and the focusing energy of pain. Don't feel all of this pain without getting your money's worth. Surrender to what is really happening. Face it head on. Summer in the MLC area says that you should stay dark UNLESS your spouse initiates a contact.
I understand the need to let her go intellectually. It is emotionally that I am struggling with the idea. I have so much invested in our relationship emotionally that the idea of moving away to draw her back in is a hard one to digest. I think that going dark would be a good idea except that I am watching our kids while she works and I am unemployed, so whenever I do that I have to see her twice a day. I have tried just making small talk with her, but she is not really interested in that so we mostly just sit in silence on the two trips between her job and where I am staying right now.
Hi Nascar-
You seem very hung up on this 90 day thing, it’s irrelevant. You might not think so however I am sure there’s many others on this forum that would agree with me. I would highly suggest that you find a way to work through this.
The veterans that just posted gave some great points. Try and REALLY absorb and implement what they are telling you. To be brutally honest, if you don’t, you’re doing yourself a disservice and your reducing your odd’s towards R. Work your arse off to follow what’s being suggested to you. (It all comes back to having that open minded mentality)
I look at it this way, if you start to hear some common and consistent themes from people on this board, there’s probably a reason for it. There’s a high probability it’s the best approach to take.
Another thing, you really seem to have this mindset that “If only I could sit down and talk with W”. As hard as it is, please try and get that thought process out of your head.
When I say fight for your marriage I hope you understand this doesn’t mean to sit down and try to work everything out with W. It just doesn’t work that way. So much of DB’ing is counterintuitive Nascar. Make her miss you. Keep things business like. Don’t hang out with mutual friends or relatives that can be “go betweens” and please do not confront W regarding the dating site.
On a final note, you talked about the anxiety involved. I hear you my friend, you’re going to have it, I have it. However there’s lots of different things you can do to reduce it. Personally I found that by reading DB and sticking to MWD’s basics helped me out a lot. That’s only one example of anxiety reduction. You will have the anxiety but there’s so many things you can do to reduce it. Hang in there, we are here for you Nascar.
Rough
I was not planning on confronting her about the dating sites. And the friend is really more my friend then hers. He just sees her from time to time and they talk. I know that I am hung up on the 90 days, but I can't get that out of my mind. It is kind of like a Damocles Sword hanging over me that I can't get out of my mind. Any suggestions on how to do that would be appreciated. I am trying to GAL, connect with some old friends, and make new ones, but for some reason I just can't get that deadline out of my mind.
So what happens at the 90 day mark?
That is when the court will consider the divorce petition.
And because, under the advice of council, I have decided not to contest the divorce that is when the court will finalize the divorce.
Even if the divorce becomes final what does that really mean as far as you improving yourself, db-ing, and GAL'ing?
Will you stop all that at that point?
Did you consider yourself married solely because you had a marriage certificate?
The reality of it is that even if you are legally divorced you will not be emotionally divorced and you can continue to db as long as you want.
You decide when your marriage is over, not a set of court papers.
No I will not stop once the divorce is final. I am just worried that it will become that much harder once the divorce is final to work things out.
Nascar-
I just composed this message however it looks like sayitaintso touched on one of the subjects,
Are you saying that after 90 days the D will be final? If so, I would like to mention a couple things. First, you don’t have any control over the timeline. Well maybe, that’s if you contest it however it sounds like you made the right decision. So the timeline “is what it is”. So you should view it as one of those things you DON’T have control over. Do you get what I am saying? I am guessing you weren’t born yesterday
you know the old cliché term, focus on the things YOU have control over.
Going back to the posts of mine and others on your thread. I would focus on yourself, avoid R talks with W. I think you’re getting the drift on the right things to do. Every sitch is different however just because you have a “deadline”???? So what! It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t stick to the DB basics, IMO. Who knows, you never know if W might start to come around in the final hour. To be brutally honest I don’t want to get your hopes up however I genuinely feel it’s more likely to happen if you chill out, leave her alone, let her process everything and stick to the basics.
I do have one question that is related to board operations and not to my situation.
Is there any way that I can set it up to receive e-mail notification when there are new posts in threads that I am following?
OK I have been researching this question as I do not use this function but it DOES work.
I have just tested it and got my first e-mail from DB.
Let me see if I can explain it.
There are quite a few steps to set it all up.
1) At the top of your topic it says - New Reply - and then another box that says topic options.
There is a drop down menu and one of the choices is to "Add topic to your Watched Topics" - select that.
Then go to "MY STUFF" and click on "WATCH LISTS"
Then another page comes up and you must click on "Watched Topics"
and then "Edit Watched Topics"
Then you will get a choice of
E-Mail Notification
None
Immediately
Select Immediately
Then at the bottom hit
UPDATE WATCHED TOPICS.
That should set it up correctly,
it is working for me. Good Luck!
Today W asked me to sign a waiver that would waive the 90 day waiting period on our divorce. What should I do?
I think she just wants to get it over with. Beyond that I don't know.
I am thinking that she is unsure about going through with the divorce so the sooner she can get it over with, the sooner she doesn't have to worry about second guessing herself. I know that could be wishful thinking, but I need some kind of hope right now.
NASCAR
It's not wishful thinking and quite common actually. Here is what you have to keep in mind while she may be second guessing herself you won't be able to talk, discuss, or debate her into changing her mind. To her everything you say is against her interests and the more you pursue the more she'll run.
Instead like we say around here a lot, be the husband only a fool would leave. So start being the man you want to be, take charge of your life AND your family. Be strong, confident, and independent. Don't tell her why she shouldn't leave, show her through your actions.
I am trying. It has been five days since the last time I tried to have any kind of R talk with W, which is pretty much the longest that I have gone since the process began. I am getting better but it is still hard. I understand about detaching and all of that intellectually but I still struggle with it emotionally. I just have to keep reminding myself that my mind is the one in charge and not my heart.
To her request to waive the 90- day wait.
I see. I am not planning on it, but I just feel so conflicted at times. Somedays I wonder if just giving her what ever she asks is the best way to go. Anytime I don't agree to something she asks for I feel like I am running the risk of pushing her further away.
"Anytime I don't agree to something she asks for I feel like I am running the risk of pushing her further away."
Let go of that fear. Let's put it this way. You've given her what she asked for and it's pushed her farther away anyway.
Not really. From the very beginning she has been asking me for space and I have not been good at giving it to her. If anything I would say that is what has pushed her farther away. I can only hope that as I have finally found the strength to pull away and let her have her space that the damage is not irreversible.
Can anyone tell me how to get rid of the deep emotional turmoil and darkness that I feel inside? I have noticed that it is really hard to GAL when you can barely force yourself to get out of bed in the morning.
Do you think you are depressed?
Are you eating and sleeping?
Exercising?
I know that I had to take antidepressants because I was so stressed out.
There is no shame in that.
Some people I know have benefitted from St John's Wort.
Take care of YOU first!
NASCAR,
I also took anti depressants for awhile.
And it helped me to be around people, not stay alone. Even if we didn't talk. Just someone around.
And please try and force yourself to GAL. It's so very hard but it will get you out of the house and force you to interact with people.
Stay on the boards.
I know that clinical depression runs in my family but I have been tested for that and the tests came back negative. I am exercising and eating just fine, although I do have some trouble sleeping at times. I do get out and interact with people as much as I am able. I spend a lot of time with my brother and his wife when they are around and with my kids. My biggest problem is that most of my friends either moved or just drifted away while I was in school so I am having to find new friends. And since I am a naturally shy person that is not the easiest thing for me to do.
Maybe that can be a 180 for you? I am typically shy too...what about learning a new sport? I started taking golf lessons. So I had to to interact with the coach, and just being friendly with other people there helped me feel like I was not so far removed from the world as I felt I was.
I would have to find something that is free. Unfortunately that is not a lot around here. I am seriously thinking about looking for some volunteer opportunities here in town and once school starts, that will help a lot as well.
That sounds like a great idea! I think it will help as well.
Today it has been a week since I have spoken to, called or texted W other than arraigning the schedule for me to provide child care services. I did see her yesterday when my MIL took me and my kids to lunch at the restaurant where W is the manager but even then I did not say anything to her except hello and good bye. I sure would like to know what she is thinking and feeling by my therapist, as well as all of you guys, have done a good job of helping me keep my distance and respect her space. In fact, my therapist pointed out to me that I was acting rather co-dependent and that may have been aggravating the situation a great deal.
Anyway, I just wanted to share this milestone with everyone, the longest I have gone before this was two days. I also wanted to thank everyone here for the help that you have given me so far. For the first time in a while I have actual hope that maybe I can save my marriage.
Okay, I have two questions for you guys today. The first is this. About a week ago W asked me to talk to the brother whom I am living with and ask him if I could watch our kids at B's house on occasion. I told her that I would if she agreed to do something for me. After some negotiations she agreed that if I did that, left her alone for three weeks, and had good days with the kids for three weeks that she would go on one date with me. However, after reading the 37 Rules and having gotten some insight from various members of this board I have questioned whether this is a good idea or not. So my question is, when the three weeks are up should I push for the date that she agreed to or should I just take a deep breath and not worry about it unless she brings it up?
The second question regards a somewhat stickier problem. To ask the question I need to give you the back story. Quite a while ago I reconnected with several friends from high school on Facebook. One of them was a girl that I kind of had a crush on for a semester but it was never serious. Anyway, as things have progressed with my divorce we have gotten to talking more and more frequently since she went through a divorce about two years ago. However, yesterday I realized that things were heading in a direction that I am sure neither of us had intended them to go. I could see that we were in the beginnings of EA and possibly even on the verge of PA (she had started talking about coming up from California to see me and getting us a motel room for the weekend.) As a result I told her that I still value her as a friend but that I had to stop talking to her at least until my divorce is final. So my question is, how do you avoid falling into a situation like that? I know that at least in this particular instance I was just happy to have someone show some interest in me and give me emotional support and I let it get too far. But what I don't know is how do you recognize when things are going to far and how do you keep healthy relationships in that healthy area?
The answr to your 1st question is that is pure persuit."should I just take a deep breath and not worry about it unless she brings it up?" Yes that is the anwser.
The second question is more difficult. If you are needing a female to make you feel better about you than it's not a good idea. And if you have not made the changes that got you here you will bring all of that baggage into a new R. So be careful.
I don't know that I need a woman to make me feel good about myself as much as it felt good to have someone else affirming the positive things that I feel about myself. It was only this last week that things started to get particularly out of bounds with this friend. A lot of things have happened this week, it was the first week I had really actually been able to detach, W asked me to waive the 90 day waiting period on our divorce, She has cut me down to seeing my kids just two days a week because she and I had a big blow up two weeks ago last Friday, etc., and I have been really struggling to deal with the series of body blows that have landed over the last week. I feel pretty good about myself and my self esteem is a lot higher than it has been, it just really felt good to have someone else, without any kind of prompting, tell me that I was a good person and say the things that I really would like W to say to me.
The one good thing that came out of the whole thing is that I did realize that I am even more committed to making my marriage work than I thought. There have been times when I have felt like throwing my hands up in the air and walking away, but when I broke things off with POW yesterday I realized that a new relationship is not what I want; I really just want to find a way to make things work with W.
Yesterday I met with my therapist and he says that I need to start telling W that I love her again. and try to tell her that all I want is to work things out so that we can be a family again. I am not sure that this is the right time to do that since she continues to seem to be closed off to me. However, he has had some conversations with her on the phone so he may know more about her mental state than I do. Should I continue to go dark as much as possible or should I take my therapist's advice and make a tentative effort to reach out to W?
Did you ask him why he felt that way?
He says that her reaction to me telling her that is a good way to gauge where she is at emotionally right now. Beyond that all that he could say without breaching confidentiality is that based on his communications with her he felt that it might be a good idea to try and reach out to her.
Beyond that, he pointed out that since our first session together she has been completely unwilling to talk to him at all, so the fact that she would even talk to him on the phone is movement in a positive direction.
Okay I wouldn't go so far as to tell her the 'L' word. How about asking how she's doing and that you care about her? Take it slow.
At this point it does not really matter because she told me that if I don't sign the waiver of the 90 days she will just file for summary judge based on the fact that I did not contest the divorce and get the same result. I guess that kinda tells me where she is at emotionally.
Yes it does matter because you have to look at the larger picture. The D is just a piece of paper. It's not an automatic switch that turns on or off people's emotions. Stay the course as if the threat of D wasn't there.
Which means, at least from my perspective, that I should sign the waiver. If I am seen as fighting against her rather than working with her then that poisons the well and makes any possible later opportunities for reconciliation that much more difficult.
"Which means, at least from my perspective, that I should sign the waiver. "
That is up to you. You would probably get the same result if you waited.
Yes it does matter because you have to look at the larger picture. The D is just a piece of paper. It's not an automatic switch that turns on or off people's emotions. Stay the course as if the threat of D wasn't there.
What I meant is that it doesn't matter whether I tell her that I love her and talk to her about what I have been talking to the therapist about because her ultimatum and the fact that, according to my kids, she has moved from just talking to people on dating sites to meeting them in person gives me a pretty good idea where she is emotionally. It tells me that she is still not open to any kind of reconciliation. As far as the waiver goes, A few weeks ago I would have told her that she would have to go to court and get the judgement, so agreeing to sign the waiver I have shown a 180 and reacted in a way which is the opposite of what she expects.
So the past two days have been pretty hectic. Wednesday when I dropped W off at work, I did what my therapist suggested and asked if I could give her a hug when she got out of the car. She thought for a minute and told me no so I just said okay and drove off. I actually think that the important thing of that incident is that she had to think about it before she told me no.
Then yesterday I told her that I loved her when I dropped her off at work. Her answer was "okay, I'll see you later." Not exactly the most positive response, but still somewhat more positive than I had expected from her. After I picked her up from work I offered to take her to a movie on Saturday. She said that she couldn't because she had to work, but that maybe we could go on another day. Again, not entirely positive but since I had expected her to just flat out say no it is still better than I had expected.
However, today she texted me and asked me what my address is at my brother's house and when I asked her why she needed it she told me that it was "none of your business." I am still not sure why she needs it and it has caused me a certain degree of nervousness today. I am still not sure what she needed it for but I am sure that I will find out. The reason that I have been so nervous is that the last two days thing have seemed to be going better, so for her to suddenly be at least acting negative again seems like a big step backward.
I truly feel for you Nascar. To be quite blunt, I would like to know if I am really on the DB website?
One thing that I had never considered before but that my therapist pointed out is that W anger at me may actually be guilt over the guy she was involved with during high school. She only told me about what happened with him a week before before things really started to go down hill for us.
Telling your W you love her and going for a hug and a movie date are the complete opposite of what DB recommends. It's basically causing her to reinforce her conviction that she does not love you, does not want to hug you, and does not want to date you. I'm sorry, that royally suxx but this is the situation you're in. You can pursue and push and see if it works.
If it's not working though, stop doing it. If it's pushing her away, take a step back and see if that works instead.
What "works" means is a bit subjective. Is it making you feel better and stronger, is it causing your W to come closer?
I understand that it is the complete opposite of what DB recommends, but it is what my therapist who has more experience with our case recommended. And while I agree with DB and am in the process of reading through DR, I also recognize that there is no one size fits all system and that the therapist is also in communication with W and may have insights into my particular case that may not always fit exactly with what DB has to say.