http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2251788#Post2251788previous thread
I made my appt with Cheryl it's on Wednesday. I have to admit I feel a little bit uneasy because I sorta felt pressured to sign up for more sessions. And I can only imagine that I would have if I had called them earlier in my sitch.
Today I had to go to the city with S. We went somewhere where there were loads of young families and seeing doting dads was kinda hard because I had a miscarriage and H was very emotionally unavailable. I still grieve over that. And maybe because I woke up early or because I'm PMS I was having a hard time. (or if it was because I'd made a list for cheryl of our timeline) I think I'm really tired of thinking about him. I kept thinking of times we'd gone there in the past and it wasn't all good. I remembered a weekend away when we were going to see a play I was really excited about and I remember distinctly that something happened and I was crying and he didn't give a sh%t and I said to him I want a divorce. By the end of the day we supposedly were okay but I remember we stayed at nice hotel that night and didn't even ML. And he has fond memories of that or did later but I thought how often did we rewrite bad times.
I want to be happy that he's out of his emotional funk. That he's finally doing a lot of things (but who knows if he even wants to) but I'm just tired of thinking of him. I'm tired of wanting....I don't know...something to happen. And everywhere I look I feel like I am getting that something happening. I'm getting him committing to another woman.
I'm tired of thinking about this Marriage. I'm tired of grieving it. I'm tired of weighing up how it could work and what we should work on and understanding how I made him feel. I'm tired of considering 5 different ways I should answer his text (if I get one) tired of telling myself that I'm giving him friendship when the truth is we don't have one. I'm tired of worrying that anything I put on FB will be seen by him and what he might think or even that he will know about my life.
I'm sick of his presence being here even though he's gone. I think when I met him I was a different person and he fulfilled something in me. But somehow our values fell out of sync with one another.
I'm honestly making this appt with Cheryl because I need one final appraisal if you will. I have spent the past few months working on me, attempting a friendship and time and distance and space only to have a bomb dropped on me. I don't think I can keep this door open, because it's hurting me too much. He maybe sees me as a plan b, he certainly doesn't see me as a plan a, and he has a pattern the easy road except for once with me. I don't want to be anyone's easy road, and I don't want to be anyone's plan b. I never in my life want to help/rescue/save a man.
I have been trying to let go with love and it's too hard. I think I've got to just let go....and not even think of him as a viable option. BECAUSE HE ISN'T. He is not only NOT someone that is available as a possible partner, he isn't the partner I would want. So why am I doing this to myself?
I really try to be positive. And I try to focus on being calm and happy and content. And I am for the most part. I had a wonderful time with my son today. He was SO talkative for a teenage boy. We laughed at a lot of stuff and had a good day. Which is why it made me so angry that thoughts of H crept in.
brit, i wish i had an answer for you but i'm asking the same questions.
it's so hard not having a future in our minds. we can't see ourselves with them and we won't see ourselves without them.
my IC said today that i have to make some choices soon. she said this waiting will have to come to an end and i'll have to make some decisions. she left it up to me when that will happen but she said everyone will get tired of this, me and H.
the question is: do i make it or let him make it? if he makes a decision for R, it would be great. if he decides D, it will be like another bomb.
do i give him control or take it??
let me know if you figure this out...
Hey Brit, I've talked to Cheryl x3 and she is a tremendous help. Keep your chin up, your Wednesday appointment will most certainly help you out. You sound like you're approaching the edge of tolerance and timing that you so kindly pulled me back from last week. If you are getting to your fork in the road you know everyone will be here to support you, but I urge you to keep cool until your appt. with Cheryl to hear what she has to say. Tell her Ben said hello :-)
I'm in the same boat as you Brit. I'm sick of thinking about her, I'm sick of thinking about us, I'm sick about thinking about possibilities, as everything (or lack thereof) rather is pointing toward her no longer giving a flip about me in any way. Despite all this for whatever reason I still love this woman and for some reason that gives me hope. This in itself is probably foolish, if I weren't a hopeless romantic I probably wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
You ask why are you doing this to yourself... Do you still love your husband? That's the only reason why I think any of us are still doing it.
Thinking more about that weekend away I mentioned in that post...it was a pattern. He had stopped being caring. And when I was really needing him to be caring and he wasn't I would get more emotional/needy and he would get more detached.
In this instance, I'm crying in public and he walks away to have a smoke and call his sister.
Perhaps this is happening now in a much grander scale. and for all my emotion, declarations of love, promises of change, being nice, he's detaching and walking away because he's wary and thinks it's all a bit weird. I'm not saying being mean will bring him back. I'm just saying a Brit that's a little bit angry is a Brit he feels safer with. I don't think he trusts my new attitude and I thought with time he would. And maybe that's why they feel the need to check in all over GD creation to test me.
And maybe none of this has anything to do me and I'm just insanely self centred. But I'm not really playing nice anymore. I'm not going to be mean...I'm shutting the door. It'll have a glass pane or something but the door is shut for right now.
Also a friend just invited me for a BBQ when I have my appt with Cheryl and now I wish I hadn't made the appt and I'd be having fun instead of PAYING to talk about H
SS, that was an interesting comment your IC made to you and I do believe it is not just relevant to Brit...
We call it "standing" for our M... but that does not mean "standing still"...
I'll often make reference to stand still in order to find what you are looking for. And that is very true. When we are looking for something INSIDE us, we need to stand still.
When we are experiencing the world OUTSIDE of ourselves, then moving around at least a little is important...
Brit, you don't have to close the door. One thing is certain though... Your H is with someone else... until he decides he no longer wants to be with her... he's made it clear that he won't be with you...
Re-read your "how are friend's" list... are you wanting a friend... or are you wanting a lover...?
I have been standing still and that has brought so much of a breakthrough in my life actually. I think my entire life I have had this sense of anxiety. Am I doing the right thing? Should I be working harder in my career? Am I being a good parent? What will I be doing in 5 years? Why haven't I travelled enough. I would make lists and plans and than have anxiety if they weren't happening and be upset with myself if I didn't make them happen. I did that our whole M.
Now? I honestly feel like for the first time in my life I am enjoying things...anything. Last night, I folded laundry and as I turned off the lights I looked around my kitchen and just felt happy and content. Today even though it sounds like I had a bad day I actually had so much fun. I talked to strangers, had a wonderful time with my son, stopped and enjoyed street performers without worrying about what time we needed to be somewhere, noticed nature, took pictures of baby swans. I really am happier than I have been in a long time.
Which is why this upsets me. I want to stop thinking about him. You're right he won't be with me.
We're not friends and that's really hard. After the bomb he told me that I'm still his best friend no one knows me like him and no one knows him like me. But he doesn't share his life with me. Possibly because of what he thinks my reaction will be, he doesn't want to talk about her. And there really isn't much in his life but her. I did feel like I did a good job on Wednesday when I brought up his trip with her and said it looked like they had fun and he told me a funny story about car trouble. Then on Saturday he was very very nice to me, told me I looked amazing/fantastic, said he wanted to take care of me, and sent a gift of breakfast home with S. But then told me (when I sorta pushed him on it) that it was a gift for both of us.
So while I feel like he isn't being my friend he may be trying to I don't know! Whenever I think of doing something "friendly" IE I knew he was jealous of us going today (his words) when we were together he was really looking forward to this thing I almost texted him to tell him about it. But I thought that's pursuing and is he going to text me this weekend when he's at an event with her that we were initially going to go to together? no...so I'm pursuing.
I don't even want him as a BF/H/lover right now...I feel like everytime I work on being a friend and working on that side of the relationship and I'm happy with the interaction something will happen FROM HIM that throws me off...the text two weeks ago that was really personal about my achievement (that was kinda not something my best GF would have sent) or the inside joke that my mom used to say, or telling me how fantastic I looked/saying he wants to take care of me, that just pushes me off my stable platform or knocks part of it out from under me so I'm balancing on one leg and just unsure.
So do you think he meant it? Or was it just lip service? (the being friends, part)...
Because you're right... your friend list is pretty standard... the bit about sharing...
So maybe he will actually be willing to be your friend, some time in the future...
And in the future, you can decide... IF it ever happens...
Why would you otherwise want to be friends with someone who is not being friends with you...? I know I'm bad for that... sometimes I just can't take a hint...
For now... you are building a new life for yourself... with the new knowlege and upgraded version of yourself...
I think he meant it. He has ALWAYS valued the fact that he is friends with people he's known since he was a kid. But he doesn't really open up to people. I think when he says "you're best friend" what he really means I opened up to you. But I think as he opens up to someone new...this connection isn't needed anymore.
But that could just be me looking at it from a victim role.
If I were looking at this pragmatically from an outside stand point, I would say that he and I have always said we had a great friendship and had fun together. And when I was the WAW we still very much wanted to be friends. But right now between my panic attacks, and pursuit, his hurt over my R with someone, and his current R, it's difficult to have a friendship.
I think I get what you're saying.
3 months ago I was rejected when I wanted to work on the M, and now I'm being rejected in friendship, and all those rejections are making me angry because I can't control them, and they aren't happening on my timeline. I feel shut out on all levels. And yet I'm still getting drips and drops of the side of him that made me fall in love with him.
To answer Broken I'm not in love with him anymore. I love him as a person...a person I see with faults and positives.
If nothing else, I will say that I am so happy he and S are having a relationship and spending time together. It's his SS and it reaffirms who I believed he was. I also have lately had a new appreciation for how he conducted himself throughout or separation even after meeting her and dating her while he was living here. He told me he respected me and I do think he did/does.
Sorry Kaffe you can cut to the point with very good questions and I have to waffle about to sort myself out...
Why would you otherwise want to be friends with someone who is not being friends with you...?
because I want him in my life. But maybe just like he needed some time to come around to spending time with SS, he just needs time to see what a friendship with me can look like while he's in a R.
ps I do feel a lot better thank you Kaffe, Broken, SS, and BD
Hi Brit ((( )))
You really are amazing. When I read your first post under this thread I worried.
But now getting to the end of it I see once again how strong you are and what wonderful insight and understanding you have of your sitch, your H and your own wants and needs.
You show grace and maturity and a deep understanding of needing to b e patient, fair and forgiving.
My H is also in a R with someone else. He lied so much and hurt me so deeply that I think I get you when you say you love him as a person right now ( after doing an already tremendous amount of self reflection and healing) but not as
someone you are in love with at the moment.
Continue working on yourself. And think of your talk with Cheryl as something you are doing for yourself - to give you more support in becoming the best Brit you can be. You can go to the BBQ afterwards. You might feel better after the talk anyway and have an even better time than you thought you could.
Thinking of you...
Continue working on yourself. And think of your talk with Cheryl as something you are doing for yourself - to give you more support in becoming the best Brit you can be. You can go to the BBQ afterwards. You might feel better after the talk anyway and have an even better time than you thought you could.
^^I agree. Think of Cheryl time as an investment in yourself. It's helpful to talk to a pro to help you remember that you're not crazy! (totally
)
((( brit ))))
it's okay to really acknowledge the feeling syou expressed your first post here, brit.
in fact writing them down and letting them out is the key to feeling them less. you may find that after doing this, as intensely as you did, they may not be as weighted as you first thought.
i think you got some great advice - especially about staying still and not acting on these feelings before you speak with cheryl.
sometimes it's hard to see when we're in it, but even this, is part of the roller coaster for us LBS's getting really fed up and done, and then after we calm down, we find ourselves still standing.
if you really feel like that after a few weeks consistently, then you'll know where you are, but a few days of it isn't always the truest thing,
so be patient with yourself and most importantly come here and vent and appreciate, because it's all part of the roller coaster.
i think we know when we are really done, is when we feel calm and serene and patient and we just turn away, not in any kind of reaction to what has been going on.
as busting said - you're one helluva woman!! keep being that and go read that caner forecast again
glad you had such a great day with your s.
zig
I think we all could still love our spouses, how could you not given the emotional investment placed in it. With that being said, there comes a moment of clear vision that screams at you that YOU are worthy of a loving, honest, authenic relationship. The hurts came in waves, and I for one was ready to get out of the water.
We all grieve for what could have been...but in the end, we must make ourselves happy.
Let me get back to this in a bit...
ahhhhhh....
3 months ago I was rejected when I wanted to work on the M, and now I'm being rejected in friendship, and all those rejections are making me angry because I can't control them, and they aren't happening on my timeline. I feel shut out on all levels. And yet I'm still getting drips and drops of the side of him that made me fall in love with him.
ok, you certainly PARTLY understand...
Thing is... if he meant it... he WOULD BE those things you list as a friend.
What ever his
reasons for not being those things... they are just reasons... would you let any other "friend" treat you the way he does?
Sorry Kaffe you can cut to the point with very good questions and I have to waffle about to sort myself out...
lol... well, I've messed up a few diamonds 'cause my chisel didn't always cut to the point, and not always still...
Why would you otherwise want to be friends with someone who is not being friends with you...?
because I want him in my life. But maybe just like he needed some time to come around to spending time with SS, he just needs time to see what a friendship with me can look like while he's in a R.
ok, I'll give you that. Still, in the mean time, you may want to let him know that this friendship isn't quite as what you might define it.
Not really sure how to say that to him, atm... but you could always ask him what makes a friendship... and then compare notes with him...
*shrug*
Go over that bit that I reposted from Accuray in the WoW thread. I think you might be able to translate that to how you and your H can be friends...
Brit,
I completly understand how you feel, I have felt the same way.
And it is so true about the texts! Every 5-7 days I get all excited because he will text me, and then I go over the possible replies I could send. Sometimes it gives me glimpses of hope "do we have to accept this", "I still find life very hard", "honestly I would love to have my family back"...all for him to return to his "normal" and go dark. All of that anticipation for nothing.
I also grew weary of thinking about what he could possibly be doing, re reading past texts to find hope, writing letters just to throw them away. Looking like a swollen eyed zombie from crying...
Yeah, I totaly get you. I get sick and tired of felling sick and tired. And then some complete stranger tells me how beautiful or amazing I am, or says stuff like "well he is a lucky man". Ha! And then I think, I don't need this [censored]!
Detaching saves us from our sanity. I had enough of his flip flopping and told him I was going to file the next day. And I meant every word of it. I have grown too much to accept this sitch the way that it is. And you know what? He beat me to the punch, filled and had me served the next day.
Am I grief stricken? Nope. If it's meant to end, let it end. I won't be mean or try to punish him, but I will cary myself with dignity.
I will tell you this though, even since then, I have found myself teary eyed and in prayer for our M. You are on the down side of the roller coaster. It's ok, it's normal and I'm pretty sure it's even healthy.
I would just caution you that if you are pissed, done, angry, sad...VENT HERE. Despite what you are feeling today, next week or even in the morning you find yourself feeling very different. We may be strangers, but we are here, and we care.
<3
First thank you to everyone: yes this is why I vent/journal here. If I just put it in a journal then no one can tell me I'm being silly or this too will pass. I have not approached him with crazy talk of how I feel since the bomb drop of 5/22.
Still, in the mean time, you may want to let him know that this friendship isn't quite as what you might define it.
I wrestle with this. I have thought of that. Thought of suggesting we have coffee twice a month to "catch up" But I as I'm starting to learn about myself I am worried that I am dressing up pursuit or control under "need to have a friendship" I can't control what our friendship will look like.
I do look at the end of April when I had decided only to work on the friendship, we were in contact much more because I initiated as well. We were much more "friendly" But then I decided that was pursuit, don't let them cake eat..etc etc Perhaps this is something Cheryl can advise on.
Here was my friends list:
He said I was his best friend and we would always be friends. So here's my rules to be his friend:
Friends don't sabotage the others relationship
Friends don't flirt with each other.
Friends don't sleep with each other.
Friends want the best for that person.
They're happy for the other's acheivements.
Friends aren't jealous of one another.
Friends don't have an agenda.
Friends don't try to push thier wishes/hopes/dreams/opinions onto that the other
A Friend listens more than talks.
A friend tries to understand where you're coming from instead of telling you why you're wrong.
A friend never says I told you so.
I would say actually he does all those things...other than the whole flirting. He does flirt sometimes. If I looked at this like "any other friend" like you said that really I wouldn't be worried about anything. He's there when I need him. He volunteers do things when I don't ask. He doesn't ignore texts if I initiate. He texts me to congratulate me.
Perhaps I'm overthinking all of it. If I put it in the context of 5 years from now, even if we're both happily married to other people would I be worried about texting and saying hope you guys have a great time this weekend? No I wouldn't.
In other news, I woke up from a dream feeling so serene, content, and happy it was amazing. I'm not sure if it was because I'd seen all these Dads yesterday but I had a dream I was at the beach and walked over to Coworker (the one I was seeing), he was with his son who was videotaping the water and I noticed I was in the shot...so I got up and moved the otherside of CoWorker. Coworker asked why and I said I was in the way, your son doesn't want me in the picture. Coworker put his arm around me and hugged me and kissed me on the forehead. And I woke up and wanted to go back.
I don't think the dream had anything to do with my Coworker (except that I see him an amazing dad and will make someone a great husband one day) I think it had everything to do with deep inside knocking myself out of the running of a happy family with more kids one day and that's not true.
I am GAL tonight while H and S are hanging out, then I have Cheryl tomorrow.
i think we know when we are really done, is when we feel calm and serene and patient and we just turn away, not in any kind of reaction to what has been going on.
I think this is brilliantly put. Thank you
I do look at the end of April when I had decided only to work on the friendship, we were in contact much more because I initiated as well. We were much more "friendly" But then I decided that was pursuit, don't let them cake eat..etc etc Perhaps this is something Cheryl can advise on.
I thought about this....and I thought about things in terms of if it were my GF would I? And in that frame of mind I texted him to say I probably wouldn't be here when he picked up S that I was going to the theatre, but that could catch up maybe after he gets back from this weekend because I'd really like to hear about that and I could tell him about yesterday. he says DAMN I was really looking forward to hearing all about yesterday. I'll have to catch you another time.
I told him he would have liked yesterday in a funny way. That if I don't talk to him before this weekend I hope "you guys" have a great time. I'm a bit jealous that they'll be seeing x music artist but excited for him.
He replied and talked about music a bit.
So I replied and did the same and said I would be leaving something of his by the door if he could remember to take it.
And you know what I feel Fan-F*cking-Tastic!!! I approached him and the text as a friend. (just like they say in how to improve your marriage without talking about it) and I got great response. If I separate my selfish "he can't have any experiences ever in life if they aren't with me" then yes, I AM excited for him for this weekend. I do want him to have fun and enjoy life.
So then I went out for the morning, ran some errands, went into some shops I hadn't been in before, and "ate the strawberries" I just feel good.
No he isn't with me. He isn't leaving her with me. If he did, we would still have a hard row to hoe. This is what we look like right now, and I can either be angry and shut him out, be sad and make him feel guilty about that, be bitter and be snide with him, or just be an adult.
I said a long time ago that he's offering me friendship and I can accept that or not. I'm not going to work any harder at this friendship than I would any other friendship. I used to really really want THAT CHANCE of us working things out. But sometimes we don't get those things as much as we think it's the right thing.
I remember how hurt I was when he used words like timing, and it's sad because we did have a good thing but sometimes that's how it is...and now I'm starting to feel like that. If this is all there is, if this is all there was, that can be okay. Yesterday I was tired and I think I was tired because I had been grieving for all the dreams and hopes of our M. The kids, the trips, the growing old, etc. But I think a lot of that was just plain old feeling sorry for myself.
Cheryl (or any DB coach) would definitely help you with your dillema.
There is something about this forum that appears to attract people who are in pretty bad shape. For that reason, LRT often is the initial mode to be in until stabilized.
I suspect a coach would say the same, as does MWD in the book and dbmod just reminded us all of this a week or so in a post to one of our members.
LRT is TEMPORARY. LRT (like all DB) is for us, to protect ourselves and calm ourselves. But once we are there, once we have reached the zen necessary, we might do better to move out of LRT and look into the other methods for changing ourselves to change the M.
Specifically regarding dbmod's post and other advice from MWD, DO WHAT WORKS. So as far as pursuit goes, if our normal mode which possibly led to the breakdown of our M was distance, then a proper 180 would be to pursue (some). Of course, if pursuit is largely rejected by the other spouse, then it is not working and we should stop.
I don't know that pursuit wasn't working. What DID appear to be happening is when he responded kindly (which might suggest it was working), your expectations rose and then you got disappointed. You weren't detached enough to pursue without expectations of results.
The DB methods can and should be modified to suit our specific needs.
And yes, in the event that you and/or your H each get re-married to someone else, then any R / friendship you two might have MUST be open and fully transparent to your respective mates. You COULD continue to be his friend in the way you've described, but that friendship and communication would be with the full knowledge of each and every one of you.
Make sense?
What DID appear to be happening is when he responded kindly (which might suggest it was working), your expectations rose and then you got disappointed. You weren't detached enough to pursue without expectations of results.
I look back now and I can see how often he used the phrase "I don't want to lead you on" I think that's exactly what happened. I may not have been honest with myself about what my expectations were then. And TBH since the (last)bomb drop I went dim so that I wouldn't make it worse, and just hoped for ANY communication.
I keep saying I want a friendship and then I keep wrestling with my own emotions about the M being over and him being in a new R. And then I get confused about what it is I'm doing. Which is why it was great that Kaffe said yesterday he won't be with you.
Every now and then I get so wrapped up in my internal drama that I forget to just live in what is happening RIGHT NOW.
[quote]
Every now and then I get so wrapped up in my internal drama that I forget to just live in what is happening RIGHT NOW.
This is so great!! It happens to so many of us and knowing it is important because then we can change it. Thanks for saying this Brit! Great reminder to many!!
Had a great night GAL. S had a great night with H.
Decided that I have entirely too much going on and going for me to sit around analysing and rethinking out R, our friendship, etc. I've let way too much of my life go by these last few months because I've been so wrapped up in this.
I've learned a lot about myself and I've developed a better relationship with my son and now it's time to start widening that circle...train for this 10 mile race, join a dance class with a friend, recommit myself to my career...
In order to truly win someone over, true self confidence, which can only be obtained through inner happiness, is necessary.
Brit, you are my role model. GB, I needed to hear that today. Thanks to you all.
The DB methods can and should be modified to suit our specific needs.
And yes, in the event that you and/or your H each get re-married to someone else, then any R / friendship you two might have MUST be open and fully transparent to your respective mates. You COULD continue to be his friend in the way you've described, but that friendship and communication would be with the full knowledge of each and every one of you.
Make sense?
great advice
Thanks guys! Not sure I'm trying to win anyone back but you know thanks!
H dropped S off last night rather than him taking a train I thought that was nice since it was way out of his way! This morning I noticed the cabinet open in the utility room, a box on the floor, and the video camera bag on the cabinet. I have no worries that H would take something of mine, but I felt a bit funny seeing my things "gone through" He hadn't said he was taking the x, y, or z. And he hadn't bothered to put things back. I don't want to start an argument or sound like a paranoid person (don't touch my stuff unless I'm there) but I feel like it should be addressed. Also he didn't do a quick handyman job he'd said he'd do.
I just keep remembered his mom the other day say oh you know H things at my house disappear then reappear .... And now he's doing it to me.
pick your battles. it's really not his job to be the handyman. he's no longer obligated. it's a favor, really, and if a friend says they will do you a favor and don't, then maybe it's time to stop asking or accepting offers to help. that will help stop the expectations (which lead to all kinds of negatives).
as far as your things, maybe just ask him first if he was in there and what he was after?
i know it's not fair that he's with another and yet, still treats you with so much familiarity. it must feel as if he has the best of both worlds, huh?
not worried at all about the handyman job. It was the disregard for my belongings. That he left things scattered about, didn't mention to me that he was taking anything etc. I am positive that he might make me feel like I was making it into a bigger issue.
i know it's not fair that he's with another and yet, still treats you with so much familiarity. it must feel as if he has the best of both worlds, huh?
That's not what upsets me. If my sister had done this I would be upset. I think it's pretty common courtesy that if you're going to take something you let someone know. If it's yours to take you still might give them a heads up. And at the very very least you pick up the mess you made at someone else's house.
I'm honestly not upset about the whole with another anymore. In fact I almost asked if he wanted to take some things in the garage for this weekend but then I thought if he does he'll ask. But monday I just decided to be happy for him in the best way possible and be happy for myself. and that's what I'm doing!
What if you changed the locks?
At the very least it would force him to ask for something ahead of time. Or how about getting stickers that say "PROPERTY OF BRIT PLEASE CALL XXXXXXXXX TO BORROW"?
Or stop by his place to reclaim the items?
Okay you probably don't want to do any of these things. Just getting a little feisty in my neck of the woods today
Just finished my coaching with Cheryl. I agree with Broken and Vera she is pretty great.
I loved the way I would state an obstacle and Cheryl would say "oh god, who cares" or "they all say that"
She's convinced he is still very much in love with me and wants to be with me and I just need to make it fun and easy. I gotta tell you my heart isn't in it completely because of all the changes I think needs to made but she said that will come later after all the bricks are laid.
One thing she to me that really suck was Assume the Good. She said it sounds like I'm really good at noticing all the bad or finding the downside of something and I just need to assume the good and point out how what he's doing is making me happy. IE don't get angry that he's sending me text the day after he did something with GF tell him how happy I am that he thought of me at this important moment in my life.
I was really surprised at how quickly she sussed out things that he had mentioned about how he feels. And I felt like she gave me a pretty clear idea on how to help with that.
First lesson in assuming the good. I am so happy I didn't fly off the handle about the utility room sitch. I casually mentioned to S hey did you pull see some stuff was moved in there? And he said oh yeah I was trying to find something, H said he needed an extra X and I said oh we have loads of those, but I couldn't find that box of wires and cables you put up the other day.
so in my head I'd decided H didn't respect my things or boundaries etc and really it was a teenager. talk about over-analyzing!
She said that I don't need to be LRT or dark. I need "more of the same" So don't overly pursue and definitely don't point out any of his actions, but do text him from time to time with things that are fun, funny, interesting, or common ground. But not hey how are you or thinking of you.
Jeez, Brit! How much do I owe you? I feel better after YOUR coaching session I think what you're saying means to me is, give them a little slack and don't be so stuck on drawing lines in the sand. Most of them have seen too much of that from us already.
I'm glad you feel you benefited!
Yes! that's exactly what she's saying. She said to make his time when he's around me fun and happy. I told her that sometimes I worry should I be dark, should I detach, should I not pursue. And she said he sounded really confused (as does your H, SS) and to not shine a light on his confusion or his contradictions, let him work all that on his own. If he does bring stuff up, make a joke and be light hearted.
So my head says this all insane, but honestly why not? What's it gonna hurt to try it Cheryl's way? She did seem to really "get" him...which makes me think he's not as uncommon as I thought.
Hey Brit! Glad to hear your session was helpful with Cheryl and thanks for posting the findings. It sounds like you are feeling better about things and have a good way forward! I think it's about time for me to re-enlist. ;-)
Hi Brit,
I am glad you are feeling better!
I get a similar feeling after speaking with Cheryl..she does seem to 'get my H' as well. And you're right -it's helps to feel like they are not that uncommon.
I hope you have a super day
((( )))
Ha! She mentioned that today was "international" day and I thought of you haha!
Haha!!! Thats too funny!!!!
right! how much do i owe you, too?
One thing she said to me that really suck was Assume the Good
why does that suck? here we are EXPECTING AND WANTING to get back together with our was's. and if we think so bad of them, what does it say about what we are wanting?
otoh, that is f'ing hard to do in these circumstances. and we are so busy thinking the worst, that if we are lucky, we find out like you just did, that our assumptions are sometimes quite wrong.
the advice that cheryl gave you- is really good. i'm glad to hear that she encouraged you, rather than to go lrt, to stay out in the light.
can you talk a bit about how she gave you advice on what to do about what he says about his feelings?
I gotta tell you my heart isn't in it completely because of all the changes I think needs to made but she said that will come later after all the bricks are laid.
your heart doesn't have to be in it completely right now, exactly because of the reasons you state. on the other hand, careful that you don't sabotage what could be good progress and beneficial for both of you, by having expectations too early (his changes) and determining your attitude toward him because you don't see them fulfilled yet. those changes can only come when he feels that he can see from you certain things
so you can either create a catch 22 situation, where you are both expecting to see something first, or you can let go of it so you don't land up in that, because then there's no way forward
i'm seriously thinking of talking to cheryl myself. i feel a bit overwhelmed on how to present a clear picture of my sitch - there is too much info, and as you all well know, i'm not exactly reticent.
did you email her and fill her in before hand or start from scratch only in the phone call? how did you decide what info to give her and what to leave out - iow - how did you prepare for it?
i hope the phone call really helped you to be more clear about how to move forward
look forward to hearing gore about it
thanks
zig
yikes - gore! i meant MORE!!!
sorry
I loved the way I would state an obstacle and Cheryl would say "oh god, who cares" or "they all say that"
I LOL'd when I read this. I can totally hear her saying that!!
Glad you found your session to be helpful. Give it a day or so to marinate in your head, review your notes, and reset your brain to move forward. I remember you saying you felt pressured to sign up for the additional sessions, I know what you mean, but every time I thought that I realized how much better I felt after my session and it ended up being worth it for me.
Huzzah for you!
One thing she said to me that really suck was Assume the Good
why does that suck?
I meant STUCK! oops
I will type more later (hopefully) I'm so busy I want to sleep! but hey I should be happy I'm busy!
Just wanted to share I had to call H this morning about a sitch with the dog. It was all a bit crazy, then when it was sorted. I called him back and said really sorry about all that it's a bit like (a tv show) he made a joke about that and we talked. He also said that I shouldn't ever worry about calling him about the dog He would have had no problem helping and then he said he had been looking forward to playing with the dog and I said "Awwww you'll have to come by once you're back" Cheryl would have been proud then I mentioned the name of a grocery store and he said you want to hear a funny story and told me a story about buying something there and then accidentally cooking it in the packaging. We were laughing together the whole conversation.
and you know why? because I wasn't approaching it like I'm bothering you, or I shouldn't be asking or talking to you about things, or this might be pursuing, I just approached it happy, carefree, no agenda, no drama, no expectations. And when I got off the phone I thought that was a fun convo. and I didn't think anything else. I didn't think he's still going away with her this weekend, he's still living with her, etc. I just thought it was really nice to laugh with him. That was fun.
Cheryl asked me if I'd read How to Improve..and I said yes and she said THEN WHY AREN'T YOU USING IT!!!! I said well I read it and thought gosh I wish I'd known all this before. And she go read it again! use it in your sitch now!!
Great, Brit! That's how I'm trying to handle things, too; no expectations, talk about things we have in common (as I would with any other friend), laugh more, etc. It's getting H to contact me more and confide in me about his life and family (kids).
I was always too strong and too fearful. My 180 now is to let down my defenses and trust more. If it doesn't result in a R, then it doesn't. But it is lowering my anxiety level when I have fewer expectations.
Good for you!
it's funny how that works isn't it? it's actually what the whole law of attraction thing is saying - the energy you are in and putting out, is the exact thing you get back. so if your energy changes, then the other persons's does too.
in fact LOA says that whatever you get in your life is a very clear indication of where you are yourself.
glad you meant stuck, and not suck - all clear!
did cheryl talk about how to apply what you learned in ow T improve...
i just started reading the book - so eager to hear more about it. also just got a otice that the library has 5 LL waiting for me. funny how it's taken me so long to start reading all of these
glad you are so busy today:)
zig
No she didn't elaborate more about the How to Improve. But I'm gong to reread and I'll let you know.
In answer to one of your other questions I didn't tell her everything everything about my sitch. She said what would he say about your M. And when I told her my thoughts she picked up on something and really went into that and it was like seeing a psychic I said yes, he was depressed, he was misrable, he did feel like a failure, he'd stopped being a person. I gave her the bare basics then as we talked other things came out.
was in a text convo with MIL and she made a joke and I made one back and she said I literally have tears in my eyes you made me laugh so hard very well said.
And I thought yeah, because this is the first time in ages that I haven't been worried about the right thing to say, hoping you still like me etc, I've just been me.
Today I randomly thought I have no idea what's going to happen in my life in a few months or few years and I'm okay with that....this is a Brit I've never before. amazing!
Wow, that sounds so freeing. Send some over here
Oh I can definitely relate to what you said about no longer worrying whether MIL will like you. It is freeing to just be yourself, say what is on your mind and not hold back. Good for you. And it seems she still does and you made her laugh. Well done!!
We had a very good R before H and SIL used to joke that I was the favourite child. We're very similar (yikes) and I miss her sometimes!
I had a great night GALing and I'm visiting friends over the weekend! Bring it on!
Just an update....This weekend was like a revelation. H had spent the weekend with GF doing something I'd originally wanted to do with him before separation. Because of various things, I was happy I wasn't there at all! Today when I got home from friends I liked a photo on his fb page and he texted me to say he hoped I'd had a good time he was sure I did. I said I hoped he'd had a good time and he told me a bit about the weekend. Said they were heading back that they were exhausted. (oh who cares)
This weekend there was 3 things that happened
first I stayed with a girl that I am friends with but not super close. I knew things weren't great with her long term BF but being in the house with two people who live like roommates was really sad. Hearing how she talked to him, listening to her say that she was unhappy, wanted to leave, given up on all hope of marriage or kids at her age, doesn't know how she can leave...I am so so so so so so so so happy that all of that is out of my life. I am immensely proud of myself that I found the strength and courage when I felt the lowest to not stay in a soul destroying sitch. Looking back yes I would have chose to make changes differently...I would have tried to work on things before ending it. But the bottom line: in the fight or flight response I chose one of the two instead of living in a state of fear.
Second, I was in a beautiful city, in a very upmarket neighborhood, I spent my time at coffee shops, cafes, antique shops, boutiques, I could go on and on. But it was as if I had a refill of me. I rarely thought of H. (especially being confronted with an unhappy relationship) I was surrounded with an hint of how my life is becoming and how I will continue making it that way.
Third, I met someone. Okay okay okay calm down. When I say I met someone I mean literally that. I just met someone who was all the things I could/would consider in a potential partner. Nothing transpired except me thinking H isn't the only option. The old Brit party girl would have handled meeting someone like this in a very different way. New Brit? doesn't even know if she'll ever see him again and that doesn't matter. It was a real eye opener to meet someone and see yourself through their eyes.
And so every day all my fears become less troublesome because I keep opening more windows or doors.
i am happy for you brit. you seem to be growing more everyday. it is good to see.
you sound like you are really in a great place in your mind. and yes the experience of just meeting someone - it can give you a lot of confidence in yourself and the possibilities for the future.
and the funny thing we learn through our journey here is that we are healed and have grown enough where jumping into something is not necessary any longer. we are happy to wait for the right time place and person
glad you had such a great time
zig
Wow, BRIT, good for you. You are an inspiration.
Well when you leave enough windows open flies come in!
haha
H texted me a few more times about how he's moving the last of his stuff, had to rent a truck, no one's helping him, do I want this or that because he doesn't have room.
I am going to close my eyes and stay in my bubble. Life is good. Meeting up with friends later tonight.
Also though.....DB Coach Cheryl would love that he is right in his pattern...spend time with GF..check in with Brit.
.DB Coach Cheryl would love that he is right in his pattern...spend time with GF..check in with Brit.
interesting! could you elaborate on that?
glad you'e taking that attitude about him moving him stuff!!
go girl!!
zig
He upset me a little bit because I don't really care about him having difficulty moving his stuff I'm surely not suggesting any advice or jumping in with info or help.
Cheryl noticed and I had too that after he spends a but of time with his GF like they go away or something he initiates communication. When they went away for that weekend the next morning at 8:20 he texted and asked if he could come over. It's funny because when I GAL I never think about how he's doing. She thinks this means he wants to come home.
TBH I don't give a crap what it means. I'm so done with over analyzing his behaviour.
Wow Brit, I am really amazed with the strength you are radiating now. I cant imagine being there, but I hope I am one day very soon. Keep it going.
TBH I don't give a crap what it means. I'm so done with over analyzing his behaviour.
Yeah, let Cheryl do that for you
it's funny how we reach that fed-upness state all of a sudden. it's like enough of this crap already.
i think it's really part of the detachment process. suddenly they are not so all-important now and as we find ourselves more and our self-confidence grows?
i don't know, sometimes i wonder if i'm just full of it myself. but i'm noticing that a certain boldness comes out with the fed up feeling - not rashness, that i think they really pick up on.
keep at it - bask in the feeling!
zig
I love your posts on your thread, lately, Brit. You are doing so great. I can feel your strength and I'm loving it!
I think I need Cheryl in my life.
I would, she's just so darn expensive.
But piece of mind is priceless
And so every day all my fears become less troublesome because I keep opening more windows or doors.
I love this, Brit. It is so true, the more we confront those fears, the less power they have.
I also love your other quote about not overanalyzing his words/actions anymore. That is so freeing, to be able to step out of the wondering/guessing/waiting mode.. To focus on your journey, not his.
I am so happy that you are in such a good place.
Came home today to see that H hadn't dropped off the piece of furniture he'd offered me yesterday. He then texted me later to say that he'd found room for it afterall so would be keeping it. But did I want a tv for my room. Also he had some mail for me. He could come by tomorrow.
I just thought you know what? You are so much drama H! So much drama! Leave everything until the last minute, do it the day after you get back from an exhausting weekend, send me texts then take them back. Honestly, drama.
I was easy breezy in my reply. I am not overthinking all this. I just don't care really.
I just thought you know what? You are so much drama H! So much drama! Leave everything until the last minute, do it the day after you get back from an exhausting weekend, send me texts then take them back. Honestly, drama.
it's definitely part of the high anxiety state they are in - i see it as a positive - the more h is forgetful and last minute or after last minute - it's the best sign that he is enormously conflicted.
be patient - it's when they get their [censored] together that you have to start wondering what they are up to. unless of course they are getting their [censored] together involving you.
cheers
zig
it's definitely part of the high anxiety state they are in - i see it as a positive - [b]the more h is forgetful and last minute or after last minute - it's the best sign that he is enormously conflicted.
That's VERY insightful, zig!
I think that is something for many to consider.
Conflict isn't a bad thing, sometimes...
Hmmmm that is interesting. He actually said he got sick mid afternoon which is why he didn't do something else. That's very odd because he NEVER gets sick. During one of their early dates he actually vomitted after lunch and now he's sick while moving his stuff. I ended up texting him and saying that something came up tomorrow (going for a walk and dinner with a friend) could he come by Wednesday instead? Cheryl wouldn't have been happy about that...but seriously I liked the idea of a walk while the weather is nice.
But to be honest I didn't believe the sick thing attempting to see the good assume the good etc. it's very nice of him to give me that tv...it has a built in DVD player I might join one of those film clubs and watch DVDs in bed!
You think Cheryl would have preferred you stick with his plan?
[If you hadn't already sent the text I might have suggested waiting until tomorrow and THEN texting him to say that something came up - another time? but you already replied so nevermind :)]
Cheryl wants be me to available and flirty and fun. She wants him to feel like in all the drama my house is a fun haven and she wants me to seduce him. Although I am enjoying his company more and finding being friends with him much easier I didn't over think it I just got the invite so asked him if we could reschedule. I would have done the same with any other friend because he's "swinging by after work"
Hi Brit, just dropping in to say hi. I like what zig said about conflict. It is interesting...
thanks KD - i don't know about other was's, but h already had this big time in his personality already while we were together. he was conflicted on everything all the time, and the only way anything got done was at the last minute when he would simply have to decide. i watched how anxious he got, keeping himself in this back and forth , sometimes for days. after the separation, what was kind of handle-able, became really really extreme.
brit - about being sick: every time h has left for a trip to see ow, he got really sick before that. each time he does something that is truly not from a place of integrity, he gets sick. mil and i have consistently noticed that.
so the emotional stress of your h moving the rest of his stuff out - getting sick, is really telling. i don't think they themselves associate it with what they are doing, but i imagine somewhere on a sub-conscious level it is being registered in some way.
all these months h has been inept at all the little things. i know db'ing said not to help them, but i did quietly just remind him - only things to do with s. to me it seemed that me pushing and commenting that he forgot this or that would be counter-productive because he would take it as criticism and constantly associate me with that anxious feeling. i know he appreciated the small reminders which i kept as low-key and casual as possible. i may sound calm writing this, but it drove me crazy and pissed me off like hell - seemed too much to carry on top of everything else. in retrospect, i'm glad i did that.
brit - if you don't mind me pointing out - your telling him not to come when he suggested it and pointing out that you made other plans - is very subtle resistance on your part. the message i think they get is - you weren't ok with what i did=you don't accept me the way i am=judgement.
i know it seems a bit doormatty - but we have been warned that we will feel like that a lot. when you get to a place like that - maybe asking yourself before you decide: will this give me an opportunity to have a positive interaction with my h which he is initiating or would i rather blow it off and go for a walk. (+ve interaction here means along the lines of happy like a kid with a new tv and giving him a casual smack on the cheek in your obvious euphoria for him making you feel so good!!!!!!!)
joann told me take every opportunity for a +ve interaction and only see it like that. if h initiates anything, no matter how small, use the chance to do that. allow them to make you feel good and let them know that they did - it warms their hearts , just like it warms ours
((( )))
zig
Okay so maybe I screwed up. But you guys are right I will make sure I'm very very thankful for the tv and I'll also take Cheryl's advice and make an amazing dinner that happens to be coming out the oven when he stops by.
you didn't screw up - and that's perfect - the dinner.
remember warm welcoming and open. and you can still keep your heart safe - that's the detachment part.
enjoy yourself - that's the first thing, and just stop worrying about how he may or may not respond. remember that feeling you had when you made your mil laugh, and noticed how you hadn't been worrying about what to say to her. get in that mode.
every time my H comes by, i cook for him. you know what they say; the way to a man's heart is through his stomach!
Hey zig, when you're right, you're right...
One of the things we used to talk a lot about around here is the emotional connection the WAS still has with the LBS. Of course, it's vice versa, as well.
We don't just
suddenly fall out of love or detach. It's a choice and an
activity.
So while those emotions are still there, there is conflicting emotions. Roller coaster. Emotional outbursts. Often, the LBS will get the emotion in the form of anger.
When that connection is no longer there, then we are simply relating to a friend or acquaintance and that really carries very little stress. There is indifference or apathy, then the emotional connection is gone.
When that connection is no longer there, then we are simply relating to a friend or acquaintance and that really carries very little stress. There is indifference or apathy, then the emotional connection is gone.
woohoo! (seriously jumping up and down
see, I KNEW deep down that there was some bloody way to look at that roller coaster ride as a positive thing and now you pointed it out KD.
Brilliant! as long as we feel the ride - we know we're still in the running! because when it's dead then there's nothing there as you say
sort of the same as michele posted - if you're still asking yourself whether you should give up then you know it's not time yet.
thanks KD - you made my day - i was really looking for a reason to appreciate that.
hope you
re well?
zig
* Waving at Brit and smiling sheepishly as zig and KD hijack this thread *
Hey zig, doing well enough as it is. dbmod kicked me in the butt a few days ago to "do something different" so I'm a little out of kilter atm...
Or maybe that's normal...
BTW Brit... you... appear to be doing... maaaahvahlous!
joining kd to wave sheepishly for hijacking. sorry brit
Brit is doing marvelously and that's why we keep flocking here - to get some inspiration.
sorry to hijack again, but KD what ARE you doing different? we all want to know:)
and off kilter is good. isn't that what doing something different is? feeling a bit uncomfortable?
just like brit is going to feel when she wants to scream in frustration because h blew her off, but she's going to be nice instead? because that's more useful.
hope u had a good night tonight brit. we're waiting to hear what happened
zig
where's the zig and KD thread? All gold.
I think of Zig and KD as friends! and my thread like my kitchen...have a seat, I'll make tea or coffee and we can chat! LOL
I agree with all of you. I actually took a sociology class at university and the prof used to be a MC and he said that when people are arguing over something like silverware there's still something there. If you're angry there's something there! If you're jealous there's something there. If you feel nothing...then there's nothing. I do believe that. But H can be SO detached it gets annoying. That's his personality to hold things in side. So he's a funny fish to read.
Had a convo with a friends last night. Who wants me to meet someone new. Usually when I tell her any drips or draps of what he does she'll say he could just be being a friend. But when I told her how he acted on hangover day saying how good I looked sending back specaility food for the next day, offering to get me a drink, saying he wanted to take care of me, and how he was texting me ON his weekend away to say he hoped I had a good time she was like What is he doing? This isn't fair to you! It made me smile because it isn't in my head. He is confused despite what he may say.
Because of time difference you guys may have misunderstood me...he's coming by Wednesday night/afternoon now.
SS, the food thing is gold. Because when he's around I try to make food that GF wouldn't know how to do. Food from home, ethnic food, non-vegetarian food, etc.
TBH the idea of him saying okay I want to work on things scares me. Is that weird? I don't know where we'd start...so that's why this "just enjoying him" is a good place. I am thinking of him as another option in my ever increasing big world. and we'll see.
"TBH the idea of him saying okay I want to work on things scares me. Is that weird? I don't know where we'd start...so that's why this "just enjoying him" is a good place. I am thinking of him as another option in my ever increasing big world. and we'll see."
brit, this is exactly how i feel now, too! it's amazing how we change during this time of introspection. some of what i'm reading about co-dependency is also contributing to this feeling.
all the reasons i became resentful and bitter would have to be addressed; not just HIS reasons. in the beginning, i would have done ANYTHING to get him back. but now i realize that i was doing just about EVERYTHING he needed and wanted during the marriage and that was a major problem.
what's scary is, will he see that giving more and taking less is BETTER for our M? he's had things his way so long.
maybe that's part of what you're feeling, too?
TBH the idea of him saying okay I want to work on things scares me. Is that weird? I don't know where we'd start...so that's why this "just enjoying him" is a good place. I am thinking of him as another option in my ever increasing big world. and we'll see.
oh my god, brit - thanks for being so open - THAT ^^^ has been scaring the [censored] out of me for a couple of months now!!
i've been very confused about it and not known what to do about that feeling.
and now reading your post and SS's after that - SS everything you write is spot on about why you're scared. I think we maybe scared because we are NOT used to expressing what we truly feel - remember we are the ones who used anger, resentment, control and all these other dysfunctional behaviors which were actually a front for being too petrified on a very deep level, to be able to say to our S's - i don't like what you are doing, i'm not happy, this is hurting me.
what scares the cr@p out of us is that if they decide to come back, eventually it will be our turn, and we will have to be able to express what we really felt.
is part of being scared that fact that we don't completely trust ourselves yet to be able to do that? that our changes are really in place?
your prof - really put it well brit - there's food for thought there-
zig
It is a scary place but also liberating.
Brit (and zig and ss) - I talked to Cheryl about this issue a little bit on my last call. Basically - it's normal and expected once we've achieved some growth in ourselves. I think it's more of a sign that we're looking at the R clearly and at our needs (as zig mentioned). It also means we wouldn't just agree to quickly jump back into an R without making sure it's healthier on both sides. There's no harm in pausing and saying - what do I need, and can I get it here? Because again DB'ing helps us figure ourselves out to become better partners in an R and better at recognizing what we need in an R. So - yeah, it's a little scary but I think it's a sign of getting your head above the clouds and seeing what's there and how you might or might not be able to work things out in the future.
It sounds like you're in a good place and you continue to get stronger and stronger and I like reading it because it inspires me to think about things more, too
And you mentioning your cooking is making me hungry!!
thanks vera for posting what cheryl said - it's reassuring to understand that those feelings are actually good healthy ones to have.
i think when we have them we could confidently say we've taken our WAS's off the pedestals we've put them on.
hey you know what i like here - brit, you and me and ss are sort of traveling along the same lines here - reaching the same places - and it's wonderful, because our conversations are really showing that as we are coming to these awarenesses and able to discuss them in real time - as opposed to discussing them with people who've already gone through this stage
glad i have all you wonderful friends - and brit - i'll take a cuppa anytime in your kitchen!! maybe we'll all do it in real time some day (grin)
zig
glad i have all you wonderful friends - and brit - i'll take a cuppa anytime in your kitchen!! maybe we'll all do it in real time some day (grin)
DEFFO!
I love "growing" with you guys. I honestly feel like since finding this community I have grown because of it. Sure I journalled before, but having people challenge your thinking or just saying they've been there is priceless. You feel so isolated in all of this. You can't talk to mutual friends, to family members, and you think they're proabably sick of hearing about it anyway! And you certainly can't be as open and honest as you can here.
It is a scary place but also liberating.
YES! I figured out why it is for me...because I'm not waiting for him to say it anymore. I think for awhile I was waiting for him to want to get back together, and wondering when it would be, and when he would move forward with the GF it would freak me out because I would think he's not going to say it or he might not ever say it.
Somewhere I have moved away from thinking about him. Going out with friends, having strangers attempt to flirt with me, getting into a routine of my home, my son, my life, getting back involved at work instead of going through the motions. I think of him less and less And where once the idea of R being a matter of life and death, or happiness and misery isn't anymore.
but now i realize that i was doing just about EVERYTHING he needed and wanted during the marriage and that was a major problem.
what's scary is, will he see that giving more and taking less is BETTER for our M? he's had things his way so long.
I think we maybe scared because we are NOT used to expressing what we truly feel - remember we are the ones who used anger, resentment, control and all these other dysfunctional behaviors which were actually a front for being too petrified on a very deep level, to be able to say to our S's - i don't like what you are doing, i'm not happy, this is hurting me.
yes and no...he was the one who gave up a lot in our relationship and I was the one who usually got my way. However I did use anger, resentment, control, and being selfish getting my own way because I was too scared to be vulnerable, too scared that giving up myself meant that I would lose myself, that if I wasn't in control I was being taken advantage of.
I feel as though he's given up parts of himself again too quickly in a new relationship. Which is why some of Cheryl's advice didn't set well with me. If I seduce him, then I'm just pursuing him, taking away his choice. And I think in terms of core values I don't want our story to be that I seduced him away from someone else. I want him to make a choice, stand on his own two feet, etc.
It also means we wouldn't just agree to quickly jump back into an R without making sure it's healthier on both sides. There's no harm in pausing and saying - what do I need, and can I get it here? Because again DB'ing helps us figure ourselves out to become better partners in an R and better at recognizing what we need in an R.
This is such good insight. It's unfamiliar territory to be strong enough to say I'm not going to take a relationship on any level. And not just the basics ie no OW/OM but actually deciding how you want to communicate with someone and work together in a partnership.
We are all controllers, I think we've all admitted that. What's at the root of control? Fear of the unknown, of something happening that we aren't prepared for and we will feel less than.
So we attempt to remove every unknown variable from our lives to quell our anxiety.
Over time we begin to look at H and think "hmmmm, do I still want you in my future" and wham-o suddenly we're in that land of the unknown. The anxiety rises and we don't know what variable to adjust.
This has been my lesson in relaxing into it.
Living in uncertainty.
"Over time we begin to look at H and think "hmmmm, do I still want you in my future" and wham-o suddenly we're in that land of the unknown. The anxiety rises and we don't know what variable to adjust."
absolutely! i become anxious because of the unknown and the possible loss of control. i used to think that being with H was better than being without H because it was habit and accustomed. now, i'm questioning that and the unknown is not as anxiety producing as it was because i've seen that i can not only survive it, but thrive in a way i'd never have thought possible until this "tragedy".
If I seduce him, then I'm just pursuing him, taking away his choice. And I think in terms of core values I don't want our story to be that I seduced him away from someone else. I want him to make a choice, stand on his own two feet, etc.
[quote]It also means we wouldn't just agree to quickly jump back into an R without making sure it's healthier on both sides. There's no harm in pausing and saying - what do I need, and can I get it here? Because again DB'ing helps us figure ourselves out to become better partners in an R and better at recognizing what we need in an R.
Thank you for these insights. Really spoke to me this morning. I adore you guys!!!
I do think there are some amazing strong intelligent women here! I love it (sorry and men! I love the men I've met here too heehee)
Oh I totally forgot I texted H earlier today to tell him about my visit to the doctor and he was very nice. Also said he'd seen something on FB about my milestone in losing weight (50 pounds now!) and congrats I should be pleased. He also made a joke and mentioned my specific brand of makeup which I didn't think he'd remembered. I also made sure to validate and said that I was looking forward to the tv that I'd be able to watch in bed which would be great after a long day. He didn't reply to my last text but I realised that I hadn't asked him any questions. And I had so many other friends texting me today I didn't notice.
He said that his "illness" was weird he thought it was a virus he felt like he had a hangover but had had nothing to drink. Very very peculiar indeed!!!!!
I feel as though he's given up parts of himself again too quickly in a new relationship. Which is why some of Cheryl's advice didn't set well with me. If I seduce him, then I'm just pursuing him, taking away his choice. And I think in terms of core values I don't want our story to be that I seduced him away from someone else. I want him to make a choice, stand on his own two feet, etc.
I don't think 'seducing' is the right word for what you would want to do. You being inviting, a bit flirty, warm, funny, awesome - a cool person to be around, you know those people who always make others feel good just by being around them? He always has a choice. He can choose to stay where he is, or decide to go back with you. But it is his choice. Unless you decide on going over packing up his stuff and bringing it back over with you.
RE: asking ourselves what WE want in a future R...
this thread (from Cadet's MLC resources) might be helpful - a few posts down from Lostforwords gives a similar take on reaching that level of detachment and looking at an R from a firmer emotional ground:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1
Thanks I'll look into that. And no LIO her word was seduce. She said why isn't he in your bed? I want you to have an affair with him. And I was a bit uncomfortable with that.
I'll let you guys know how this evening goes!
I see...
I would have the same mind-set as you do, and not be comfortable with that.
don't really have much to say. He came, he talked, he left.
He walked in and said it smelled amazing (I know. ha) I showed him what was in the oven and said you're welcome to stay and he said...I can't but thank you.
We talked about the day trip S and I went on last week that he'd wanted to go to. He even said oh, I wish I had gone when I was telling him the stories. He laughed quite a bit. I told him about some possibilities at work for advancement and he said that was really good. He interrupted me and complimented me on my blazer and my shoes. (????)
He told me a bit about their weekend. He asked me about mine. We talked about S's birthday. I told him we were planning to see a movie and he was welcome to come. But that I knew it was the same night as this event she would want him to go to. I said you might have to go to that and kind of smirked. He said oh, yeah I might and rolled his eyes. I said well you know if you need an out...and grinned. (because honestly I don't care about respecting that whole thing...whatever.)
The whole event they went to last weekend was poorly planned and not at whole how I would have done it. Which kind of made me smirk. I hope he had fun but I also kind of felt like it was the same old thing with him 80%. It's hard to explain but he was always missing out on things because of half-assness. If that makes sense.
He also told me he couldn't pay me his portion of a bill until Friday because he was overdrawn. Didn't you justify moving in with her because it was cheaper and now you're still overdrawn.
He also told me a story about buying a new toy and his coworker saying you know you're going to fix it, play with it, and then not want it anymore. And he said yep that's exactly what I did I haven't touched it once although I did go on ebay and buy these accessories. I sorta laughed and said typical and he said "different day, same H" I had no idea what to say to all that.
A friend of mine invited me to her wedding today. I was really touched because I know money is tight and they both have big families so I never assumed I would get an invite. But we were talking about wedding plans and I thought two things:
1) a few months ago the idea of going to a wedding would have given me a panic attack and now I am honestly 100% so so happy for her and excited to be going.
2) we were talking about wedding cakes and I mentioned my wedding and I remembered how my wedding was never the wedding I wanted. I made compromises from the venue, to the ring, to the proposal. I just kept saying those things weren't important because our R was what was important. But it was that 80%, him doing "just enough" and me convincing myself that it was good enough. I just felt like he was being lazy. And it's something that's come up in our R and our S and everything over and over again.
I have a friend who's been divorced for 10 years. He left when her kids were 3 and 21 months. She told me that her sons can't even imagine her and XH being a couple because they are SO different. H sat across from me in the living room today and it's a bit how I felt. I belong standing next to someone like I met this past weekend...and he's this irresponsible overgrown kid.
Sorry if I don't sound loving. We did have a lot of laughs tonight. I'm not bashing...I'm just able to be more and more objective.
I just remembered he didn't call it their apartment when he was referring to it...he called it "her place" interesting....
Hi brit,
I was just checking in to see how you are doing. You sound like you are doing well, and I am happy to hear that. You seem to have come such a long way in a short period of time. It is really inspirational to read.
Take care of YOU!
Busting
hey brit,
isn't it wonderful how something like how you feel about an invitation to a wedding can help you recognize your growth?! how quickly we heal.. and when we focus on it, we grow in so many ways that the WAS feels like they no longer fit..and we wonder if they could ever catch up.
it is strange... they took their freedom, yet at times i think we are the ones who end up truly freed.
thank you for sharing your journey. i aspire to have your confidence and am learning... WWBD??