Abouts time for a new thread, I suppose.
Previously:
Detaching from the land of confusion To summarize recent events - H had me served at home two weekends ago after I told him I wanted to do it through Ls. He's now looking toward selling the house but still being great buds.
Most recent big post:
Yikes, no Cheryl availability until next week! I should have called earlier!
As for boundaries - I have started taking my meals in my bedroom. I'm not in shared spaces with him unless absolutely necessary (i.e. cooking or occasionally working from home).
Yesterday he wanted to take a nap in my bed (the only real bed in the house). Because he phrased it as "are you going to be in the bedroom in the next hour or so," I said yes, so he didn't go in there. He works from home occasionally so he's probably going in there when I'm at work and I wouldn't know it. I would like him to not do this. I am having trouble coming up with the right phrasing.
He also still hanging up my laundry to dry. I guess it's partly because he needs to use the machine and my stuff sitting in there impedes that. I guess I can't really complain about this except that he has to go in my bedroom to put the stuff on the drying rack. I don't take him doing this as a sign of anything especially because he has repeatedly emphasized how little effort it requires of him to do it.
One other thing - he seemed to get a bit irritated at me last night when I went to cook something and was missing an ingredient. He had called me when he was at the grocery store to see if I needed anything, but I was trying to take a nap and didn't see the voicemail immediately. I have been taking Cheryl's advice and saying "no thanks" when he offers to do something or asks if I need anything. He mentioned multiple times yesterday that he'd called me while he was at the store and could have picked something up. I said that his voicemail said that he would only be there for 10 more minutes and I didn't get the message until after that time. His feathers seem to be ruffled for not being able to help. Again, not trying to read anything in to that.
I'll play it by ear this week. If it feels right to say "My best friend wants a different life and I am preparing for life without my best friend" then I will decide at that time to say it. It's true.
As for selling the house - he'd asked last week to set up a time to discuss our "plan." I responded this morning that the questions he was asking (timing, etc.) would be best answered by a realtor who knew area comps. I also told him that I was not prepared to sell the house for a loss. I probably could have phrased it better but this situation (dealing the house) still causes me great anxiety. He wrote back something about meeting realtors together. Ugh, ugh, ugh.
oops new thread:
It is totally not right that he would sleep in your room. I do think you need to have a conversation about it being your space because like I said before you never go into his room.
I do remember things from our time when I was the WAW and he was LBS but we were living together. He respected my boundaries more than I did his. Why? because he was seeing me as someone who had left him and I was seeing him as someone in my life ON MY TERMS. When my terms meant that we would go to the theatre together, or to the store, or watch tv together we would. Because I was so selfish and so self centered I of course thought that he would have no problem hanging out with me. He always wanted to and was nothing but happy and friendly. I had no idea how he felt in the inside. (This is really hard for me to write because I can see things now that I didn't before...but it's good) basically it was when he stopped trying to please me, I felt all out of sorts. He was efficient, business like, separated himself from life and when I would say something like oh I don't mind doing x,y,z he'd say "no, you shouldn't be doing my laundry" or "it's not right for me to have my things in there"
I know you've separated yourself, your time spent around him, the food and cooking, but don't underestimate how self centered he could be or how he could be tricking himself ie "we're both okay with the split, we're still really close, she's just been busy at the gym and stuff but we watch our show together and going here and here together it's fine" It's what I used as examples when I would tell people that we were getting along just fine. And that was the story I told myself and the story I told the world.
For me it was a combination of him acting differently for someone else and switch in attitude towards me. You may need to spell it out
Brit - thank you, I really appreciate your insight on this.
i think brit's thoughts are really valuable.
pasting from tsquared2's thread for future reference...
Without mindreading as to WHY she is doing whatever she is doing.
I found it was easier for me to assume everything was a test. What test you ask?
A test to see if she could trust the changes I made in myself.
Again Not mindreading...this was an assumption on my part. One I admit to making, it made it easy to follow guidelines I imposed on myself.
H initiated reasonably long chats today twice. The first one was while I was cooking dinner. He came down and complained about a work situation for at least 5 minutes. I was mostly quiet but validated. One of the ingredients I needed from the fridge was completely mushy. H spent a few minutes looking through our entire spice cabinet for a dried version, but it was so old that it tasted like nothing. He was on his way to run a quick errand so he offered to stop by the local grocery store to pick some up. I declined a few times but he kept insisting, so I agreed and thanked him.
H later said he was going to bed very early. While I was getting ready for bed I heard him talking on the phone to his grandfather. About 30 min later he came to my room and knocked on the door, and came in. He said his grandfather mentioned something about his father, so H called his dad who said that he'd had a medical scan and it turned up something odd while they were looking for something else. It's not immediately serious but it's something that he'll have to investigate further. H seemed a little bit shaken, he said his dad was not worried about it. I asked him how he felt (actually a 180 for me). He said that he had always joked with his mother about his dad's life expectancy (family dark humor) but that it didn't seem like anything to worry about now. But he did come the whole way into the room to "let me know" about this. He then talked about something that happened over his weekend trip and we kept it light and slightly jokey for a bit before he headed back up to bed.
I need to get out of the house more in the evenings. I was going to go to the gym tonight but I ate too much for dinner! Tomorrow, definitely. H does seem to be checking in more as I remain dim and let him initiate all contact.
Reading that all I could wonder is when he is going to realize that he is losing his best friend? It sounds like he has no idea what the D means..
Reading that all I could wonder is when he is going to realize that he is losing his best friend? It sounds like he has no idea what the D means..
I agree. That's why it hit me so hard once he moved out. I had "felt" like he was so much a part of my life and then it went to nothing.
He doesn't. His head is still firmly planted in the sands of denial.
(((v)))
make sure that it's not his quicksand and you get pulled into it (grin)
Ha. Thanks. I guess getting out of quicksand is like DB'ing - stay still, remain calm.
As for the house, I realized last night that it is a trigger for me because I was raised having internalized that I should never need to depend on anyone else for anything (rah rah independent woman...). Now I'm in a position where I'm not exactly self-sufficient because I can't afford the house on my own. My income was different when we bought it. If I were still making what I was then, it wouldn't be an issue - I'd refi in my name and kick him out. Now... I can't do that. It's a little bit of shame that I put myself in this position (with the house). Dealing...
Everyone's lifestyle changes when there is a split. Even if you're a millionaire!
My mom was one of those don't ever depend on anyone person too....she's alone. So not sure if that's the best school of thought.
I'm in a position where I'm trying to decide do I stay in this house that's expensive on one income or move. It doesn't mean we're still not self sufficient in fact because we are making these choices we're choosing to stand on our own feet. Making the best decision rather than get in over our heads. I know you'll make the right decision. It's hard when you're emotionally attached to something. I know that feeling. We choose to sell. I don't think either of us could think of the other having it without them.
Brit, I'm loving your feedback on this thread. Thank you for your perspective. It's very helpful.
Brit - you're right. I know the attitude isn't great. It's just a mindset that I've been trying to work through. I think H struggled with that a bit once I regained my health because perhaps he didn't feel as "needed" anymore (codependent!). We talked about it in MC, particularly with respect to me having a hard time being open to being comforted emotionally in difficult situations.
Part of me wonders if the house is really a barrier to R with H because it was a big stressor for me, especially maintaining it while he was gone traveling for work so much. I was really overwhelmed at times and I'm sure it came through in how I dealt with him. When I say it's a barrier - maybe part of him thinks that I could never be happy and still be in the house and since we are still in the house we could never have a happy R/M. Mindreading, yeah. But I never made that possible connection until this morning.
In reality I could possibly take over the house payments but I wouldn't have any money left for anything else. Where's the fun in that?? I love to travel!
I've decided a new morning mantra will be - how am I improving myself today? And meditate on that for a little bit. Today I am working on travel arrangements for a trip home to see family. I'd not done the greatest job keeping up with family in the past. Last year, I really started working on that and I'm doing that better now.
Is getting roommate to help cover the mortgage something you would consider?
I was always so proud that I could take care of myself. I am learning now that while being self sufficient is important asking for help is a big part of taking care of me.
My mother also never asked for help. While we were growing up she had a full time job and a H/my father who was not interested in participating at home. My mother did everything herself, laundry, house keeping, helping with homework, grocery shopping, garbage, lightbulbs, EVERYTHING! And we heard all about it. Meanwhile we did have the means for her to pay someone to clean the house. She could have reduced her hours. Her MIL was willing to come to our house to babysit and help her. None of those options worked for her. The only option for her was to take care of everyone and everything and be miserable
Though this crisis I have been blessed to learn that I can take care of everything, only God can.
Whoops - i meant I CANT Take care of everything
And we heard all about it.
HA! Hey I know that lady! Well my mom was the same way!
It is true that when I mention to friends I'm always really surprised about how much they want to help and be there for me. And sometimes maybe because of our upbringing we find it hard to accept the help.
Re: Roommate... I thought about it but I don't know that the house is set up for it well enough. My bedroom door doesn't have a lock and it wouldn't be easy to put one on. The guest room does have its own full bath but it's on the top floor of the house and it gets really, really HOT up there in the summer (even with the ceiling fan on -- old house). Trying to find someone on craigslist seems . . . really scary.
Plus, being a landlord and having to deal with maintenance alone - that would be a real shift for me! I will think about it, though... I should figure out the monthly payments on everything and see how I could break it down, even for a split that's not 50/50.
I'm a classic only child. I have a hard time letting people touch my "stuff." With H it wasn't as much of an issue because it was "our stuff."
It is true that when I mention to friends I'm always really surprised about how much they want to help and be there for me. And sometimes maybe because of our upbringing we find it hard to accept the help.
^^ I think this sums it up. I don't think my parents were unhelpful, per se. But I get what you are saying, exactly.
Well Brit, based on the brief convo I just had with H, I think your assessment was spot-on.
I got home not too long ago. H was already in the kitchen making his dinner. I came in and started unloading my lunch dishes.
After exchanging initial pleasantries he stopped and said, "You know, I had a really nice time [out with me] on Sunday. I hope we can [something about do stuff like that/be friends like that."
I was really, really caught off guard by that. I ended up saying "I guess time will tell." <<--seriously, what is that??
After that he made some more small talk about his work laptop not functioning properly and said that my dinner (leftovers from last night) smelled really good. He also said that he was planning on going to the gym later (I am too but I didn't mention it) and asked if I'd picked up something from the grocery store that I'd used up the other day. I didn't (wasn't on my list, I'm not buying things for "us").
I took my dinner in my bedroom again. As I was walking out of the kitchen, he said (with the slightest hint of irritation) "You know, you can eat in here." I just said "I'm good, thanks!" and went up stairs.
So...
tomorrow is the last even that we're doing together (concert with mutual friends). Not going is not an option. We have reserved seats so I can't sit somewhere else (the seats are really, really good and I'm not giving up my place).
He sent me two emails this morning, both of which I ignored.
I need to pull way, way, way waywaywayway back, I guess. Cheryl!! I am exercising patience but Monday is a long ways away!!
He noticing he feels it and he diesn't know why you are pulling away.
He is cake eating because having your company validates his thought process that you're good friends better friends than spouses and it's been that way for awhile (that's what I said along with I think it was over a long time ago so we're both okay with it)
I'n glad you said what you said any thing besides me too or yeah
Thanks Brit, your insight is really valuable to me and I appreciate your continued wisdom over here.
And if you keep responding within 5 minutes of me posting I'm going to have some expectations about response times
Seriously, some days when I am bored at work it seems like I'm hitting refresh every 3.5 minutes.
hang in there vera - you're doing great!
we're here for you:)
and hit that refresh button all you like - for now. soon all of us will have to stand on our own two feet, but as my IC said to me firmly the other day - for now, it's okay , but not always.
zig
You are doing awesome. Hang in there! Use the concert to your advantage - make him want what he cant have
i love your response "I guess time will tell"
You did not say yes
or no...
you spoke honestly.
way to think on your feet. amazing...
It's VERY VERY hard for me not to comment on something sometimes. Because I know what's it like to need some reassurance or guidance or just to know someone is listening. I have refreshed a million times at 2 in the morning with tears haha.
But I did go to sleep after that...you can tell poor spelling I was in bed.
And in a weird (selfish) way your sitch with your husband is teaching me about myself. Because I do see a lot of myself in your H and I see a lot of my H's actions in how you're handling it. Although he didn't have DB and he was a lot more needy and didn't separate himself. But he was nice, polite, supportive etc. This sitch is helping me revisit that time and understand more of what I did. I don't know when or how this will help me but I know that it is.
Zig - that's a good point. I usually try to keep my time here confined to a few times a day so that I can get other things done, and not at all when I'm out GAL
Bklyn - thanks, I already have my outfit planned! I'm going to not be in my seat for the opening act, so if he's sitting there wondering where I am, too bad. Unfortunately the tickets are at will call so I have to be there with him to get my ticket.
NG - Thanks. I was just not prepared for the moment so when I said that it sounded really odd in my head, but looking back I guess I didn't admit to anything, which was, as you pointed out, actually honest. I didn't think of it that way, thanks! Better than "I can neither confirm nor deny," I suppose!
Brit - please don't take my comment as me saying you are commenting too much that is not my intention! I welcome all input. I think we all comment on here because we see things in other situations that we might have insight into. We are all here to self-improve and yes the focus is on us (maybe for the first time in a long time) in a new way and while that might be considered selfish it is for a good reason and will (hopefully) ultimately help us better deal with everyone in our lives.
I think I'm going to take a half day from work and hit the gym in the afternoon before tonight.
ha you can't scare me off that easily! LOL!!
have a good time tonight! Go to the gym so you can have a drink at the show without any guilt! And you'll have that post work out high too!
hope you have a great time tonight... for YOU! you deserve it, vera!
in the midst of what has to be one of the most challenging times in your life, you have been so very strong and have been using this time to grow. you are an inspiration to me of how to be powerful and not let another define you. Celebrate YOU tonight!
Hi verba,
I've been away trying to get my own house up for sale (yikes, just 1 more week?!) and your posts about your own house resonated again with me.
I made the decision to put my house up for sale because I didn't like it, h didn't like it, and covering it 100%, while doable, was too tight 45% of my income. Plus this house has been a constant stressor to me in maintenance, cleaning and even dealing with my neighbors (we live too close and everyone knows everyone's business!). Since my h already moved out (and left some belongings behind...) Ive been purging, packing and cleaning. I see he is a bit taken aback that yes, I CAN and will move on.
Having the house or not doesn't mean that you are not self reliant, it means that you are self reliant enough to make those financial decisions. Look, finances change over time... We are not the type of women who sit ideally by and hope and wish for prince charming to come rescue us.. We get up, do what we need to do and take care of business. That is being self reliant.
Money is just money... Houses are just places to live.
Sounds like h is starting to connect a bit more with you. I love your dimness and your ability to respond on the fly like that! Nice!
Quick journaling -
H came down for lunch while I was cooking my lunch. Again with comments about how good it smelled.
Then he said, "Um, I was really upset last night when you left for the gym without me because I'd asked you for one minute to finish getting ready and the reason I needed a minute was because I was cleaning up the stove after you'd made dinner." [Yeah, the timing did not work out on my part - I should have waited until he left to leave but I wanted to go and he wasn't ready.] I said "I did not know how long it was actually going to take you. I also did not know that you were cleaning the stove, nor did I ask you to." He said "I know." I said "I'm sorry you feel that way. " (now realizing I was defending the above).
Then he asked if I had a L yet (again with this).
me "Does it matter?"
He said yes, you have to sign the papers to get the divorce started and then there's the cooling off period.
I said "What papers"
He said "The actual divorce papers so that it can get started."
I said "I already have them. They brought them here last weekend while you were upstairs with (friend.)"
He had kind of a deer in the headlights look and said "What? I did not know that."
I said, "Yeah, they came to the door and brought them while you were upstairs with her."
He said, "I'm sorry, I did not ask them to do that, I'm sorry it wasn't at a more convenient time."
I said "Well, it's over now." and left it at that.
I find it so, so hard to believe factually that he didn't know (and great that his L didn't tell him the 90 days was already running) but the look on his face suggested otherwise.
Whatever.
Sheesh Vera, I have anxiety just reading that. I am continually amazed that you haven't "pulled off your earrings" drawn a line down the kitchen and told him that people don't go to the gym together who have just been served D papers. When you're single you do things ALONE, so get used to it. That you don't need him to tell how a freakin divorce works and that he shouldn't pressure you if he doesn't want this to get nasty. But hey you aren't "old Brit"
I LITERALLY have heart palpitations.
Looking at it through my WAW eyes, I remember when I would I talk to h about moving out, and splitting up finances and D and he would act squirmish and once he said I just feel like you're trying to get rid of me. I felt like I had to bring this stuff up because he wasn't. I felt like he was living in a bubble (god how the tables really were) and didn't understand what was happening or thought if he ignored it we could just keep going. I felt like I had started GAL and accepted the sitch but he hadn't which is why I felt like I had to say these things
I don't know if this is what your H is thinking. But I do think his head is in that sand. And he's going to have a very rude awakening when he finally sees sunlight!
Oh Brit, take a deep breath, you'll be okay
Looking at this situation objectively I have to say it was probably some kind of step for him to address the feeling he had and put it in an "I" statement. I could tell when I left without him last night (mind you we did not have PLANS to go together. I was trying to get ready and leave before him) that he was annoyed because after he asked me to wait I said something like, we'll I'm just going to head out, and then paused, and then said "Do you need me to wait" and he kind of snapped back "No." Maybe part of me was trying to leave without him as a statement to him but at any rate I did not want to actually go there with him. So I could tell he was irritated then.
At the gym, he walked past me a few times on his way to/from machines and acknowledged me (offered a towel at one point) but I left without alerting him.
haha sorry if I made it about me. you are very very strong. You handled it very well!
you didn't, I was just teasing
Ps now that I've finished eating lunch . . . I love that the reason he felt like he was delayed was because he was cleaning up "my" mess.
I'm pretty sure he was cleaning for at least an hour in the kitchen. Again - he cleaned occasionally (more of that more recently, pre bomb) but in the past when I asked him to help it was like I asked a 2 year old who was like "I don't wanna" but then would end up doing it and pouting the whole time. Or I'd get "Yeah, I'll do it later" and we'd have words over our different expectations about when these things would be done. Then it got to the point where I would just do it all the time and he'd be like "I was going to do it" and I'd respond "well I already did it so it's done."
So anyway, there's some sick humor in this somewhere.
^^Oh and then he said "maybe we could go in together on some fajitas together sometime."
"Yeah, maybe."
*facepalm*
I'm telling you old school duct tape down the middle of the kitchen your stuff on one side and his on the other. LOL
you mean like "dutch"? omg. i just don't get him. WTH? i thought my h was confusing (and he is) but i almost think yours has him beat...slightly. what do they want?
anyone? bueller? (from the movie)
Seriously. What in the world is going through his mind? You are handling yourself very well.
fajitas together? wth? i keep waiting for him to get it...
are you sure that he knows what the word divorce means?
He's quite entertaining for us, tho.
Maybe fajita is code for something else that our WASs only know about. Like ' OMG! What the F #%^ have I done?!?!'
LOL Busting out!
My W told me to "give her love" to my family next week. Do all these WAS' not have a clue? Does she not realize that they would have some choice words in response??
WTH???
Yeah, like stick her love where the sun don't shine! I truly think they believe they are the "good guys" and everyone knows that!
I'm telling you old school duct tape down the middle of the kitchen your stuff on one side and his on the other. LOL
Haha! The OCD part of me first thought "OMG that is going to leave a sticky mess that I'm going to have to clean up!!"
fajitas together? wth? i keep waiting for him to get it...
ME TOO!!
are you sure that he knows what the word divorce means?
I am quite sure he does not!!
He's quite entertaining for us, tho.
Glad to provide the pre-meal entertainment
Maybe fajita is code for something else that our WASs only know about. Like ' OMG! What the F #%^ have I done?!?!'
Thank you, this made me LOL at the gym!
Yeah, like stick her love where the sun don't shine! I truly think they believe they are the "good guys" and everyone knows that!
Haha! Either they believe they are the good guys/gals or they are desperately terrified of being seen as the bad guys/gals (my H is).
have u refreshed in da last 2min? lol!
was r so confusing! i'm tired of trying to figure them out!!
So the concert was great. I was going to take an alt form of transportation there but getting there is a giant pain so H drove and picked up our friends on the way there. It was mostly not awkward.
My ticket initially had me sitting next to H but I moved when the show went on because I couldn't see over the people in front of me, so I ended up first with one friend in between us and then two.
On the way out he kept asking me what I thought, how it compared to a previous show, etc. As soon as we got in the door at home I went right up the stairs and said "Thanks for driving, goodnight."
Up this morning and he's thrown in a load of laundry that has a bunch of my stuff in it. If I were to ask him he would just say he was using it to "fill up the load" and pull out the efficiency argument. Is this worth speaking up and saying something or should I enjoy the free laundry service?
We did have the laundry debate. H began keeping his clothes not in the communal dirty clothes area. He would do his laundry before I had a chance/when I was not at home. When I volunteered he flat out told me it's not right, you shouldn't have to do my laundry. I think I pushed once, and he just kept saying if you're sure. I'm not sure why I wanted to do his laundry (during my WAW days)
It validates his happy caring best friend theory. Maybe it satisfies a bit of his guilt. Maybe you should keep all your stuff in your room.
When's your DB coach session? His head is in the sand...you're gonna have to spell it out. He wants to have fajitas!
No Cheryl until Monday! Have to figure out how I'm going to make it through the weekend . . .
Separate hamper is a good idea. I stopped doing his laundry a long time ago.
Also I realized at the concert that I did not really feel like there was any "special" connection between us. It felt more like he was just another person who was "there."
It felt more like he was just another person who was "there."
I think this is what people mean when they say it will be a new R if you do reconcile
BTW my cainer cast this week has been all about being diplomatic, today it says - "An optimist who sincerely wishes to assist a pessimist must be patient, diplomatic and willing to concede the existence of some potential problems. Tread gently today." I think he does this to mess with DB'ers' minds
When I was away for the week, my husband did his laundry. And my laundry. And he washed the sheets for me, since he had been sleeping in the bedroom. Why? I have no idea.
Fajitas, laundry.... Seriously what do these WASs want? And do they expect us to have no reaction to them except all accepting? They need us to respond to their 'acts of kindness' to alleviate their guilt. That's what I'm starting to think.
Someone said earlier in this stich or another that once we start doing things differently it means the WAS loses his/her justification for leaving in the first place. So they try and push our buttons so we lapse into our old selves.
Let's not let that happen
Someone said earlier in this stich or another that once we start doing things differently it means the WAS loses his/her justification for leaving in the first place. So they try and push our buttons so we lapse into our old selves.
Let's not let that happen
Love that, i think it is true. Vera, do you think H is trying to push any buttons?
Vera, do you think H is trying to push any buttons?
I'm not sure. The button where he does the bulk of cleaning up the kitchen? The fajita button?
I feel like he's a little too dense right now to be trying to push buttons. I don't think he's actively testing to see if it would be safe to come back.
No I think they mean push the buttons to see the things or reasons they believe the M should be over
Because we weren't really antagonistic, I'm having a hard time of identifying which buttons he might be pushing.
I have noticed that, since the bomb, in addition to his compulsive kitchen cleaning, at one point he said something like "I was going to go do X but I figured I would stay in the kitchen and clean up because that's important." I don't remember what my response was but it was probably along the lines of "Sure, I guess."
I'm just not really sure right now what he could possibly be trying to draw out of me by testing me. Then again I'm so exhausted from gym+concert+little sleep that I'm feeling pretty dense today.
i am in meltdown mode today. Been feeling strong for awhile. I know my h is confused but I am so tired. Almost a year now. H53 M50 06/11 ilybnilwy 12/11 moves out 3/12 moves back in 5/12 just moved back for kids wants a divorce. Week later ML with affection and passion of many years ago... speaking to his LL acts of service, he is totally avoiding mine, touch and words of affirmation..... I know, who am I to HAVE EXPECTATIONS?! MIL coming over, she has no idea, thinks everything is rosy....has cancer, nobody wants her to stress. I feel like I could start puking blood any time now...where did Pollyana go today?????!!!!!!
Yuck. I don't know if it's the tired talking but I feel really uninterested in H right now. Brit I know what you mean about the feeling meaning that it would be a new R. But I don't even feel particularly attracted to him right now.
In better news, I just came up with an awesome craft idea that I'm going to give for an upcoming baby shower. I like making things and giving them to people. Going to focus on that for now.
But I don't even feel particularly attracted to him right now.
I know exactly what you mean there. That's why I was saying am I sad about him or about the M?
Maybe just sad as part of grieving the loss of both? A partner and best friend, plus married/ family life and dreams?
I know that's what making me sad.
all of that stuff gets intertwined into ONE person and you then you see them and you're like hang on you're not all that I wish and want....
I see what you mean there.
Had a nice evening after work. Didn't go home, got a quick dinner out by myself (180) and then went to a recurring GAL educational thing I've been frequenting (by myself - not a 180, I've done it before, but I've never not gone home first, so that's a 180). Had a lovely time, learned some things. Chatted with a guy while waiting in line for part of it about the event, phone apps, and his kid. He introduced himself after we'd been talking for a bit . . . same name as H. Haha! But it was nice to just talk to a complete stranger about something and realize that I can do it, I can be interesting, I can engage in lengthy convos with complete strangers and it's cool to meet new people.
I ended up getting home a lot later than I ever have (at least without having given H some warning). On my way home I got a text from H - "Are you coming home tonight?" My phone was in my purse because I was enjoying my evening so I didn't see it until well after I got in.
He was still in the kitchen when I came in, was on the phone with someone, told them to hold on while he asked me a few questions, and then got off the phone with an "If that works for you . . . I'll talk to you later." Who it was - didn't ask, don't care.
He asked if I went to X event with someone I did my secret daytrip with 2 weekends ago. I just said no, I wasn't, I didn't know that was going on. He tried to make further chat (complaining about multiple family members calling him repeatedly to go to a father's day dinner on sunday; stuff about the concert last night) and I answered his questions briefly but wasn't open about anything else.
He asked if I'd seen the stuff about the realtors he put together, I didn't, because he didn't send me anything. He asked what I thought and I told him to call a few and see what they had to say. He said he wasn't sure how "involved" I wanted to be and I said I would get involved "eventually." (AKA I'd love for this to drag out so I can win the lottery and pay off the mortgage and kick his butt out!
)
I put my lunch together for tomorrow and went up to the bathroom to get ready for bed. He came up a few minutes later, mentioned something else through the door, then when I didn't engage in further conversation he said goodnight and went into the guest room.
I'm feeling a little feisty right now. Probably delirious from the lack of sleep - I should get to bed.
Fantastic! You should like you're in a really good place! All the GAL, meeting new people even if you'll never talk to them again! Getting out etc.
It's a great feeling when you catch yourself completely outside the sitch. I'm off for my own GAL day!
About the house, do you really want it? I know it's hard to make those kinds of decisions right now but let me just throw a few things out there.
Your house will always have memories of this M that is now dead. If you R it will still have those memories and that may not be good.
If you D, it will have those memories. Not good.
When my sitch began, I was adamant about not selling the house and I'm glad I wasn't forced to but now...
A fresh start with less *baggage* (and maintenance)sounds lovely.
Well done verab. You continue to inspire me.
I understand what bug is talking about. I keep thinking that this 'dream house' I am in now with the kids will be too much too handle whatever the outcome of the sitch. Something that doesn't need an immediate answer but something to ALSO think about!
Bug - you're right. It's hard to find certainty in deciding about the house right now. Right now I just don't want to feel rushed. I know H would love to have it instantly sold and get out and move on. I have already told him I am not prepared to take a loss on the house. But I am not going to do any legwork with realtors right now. He wants to get out - he can do that himself.
I have really been biting my tongue about making suggestions about what to ask the realtors in terms of options, timing, what needs to be done on the house, comps, etc. I am not going to let the fixer/planner in me take the reigns on this because I am not certain about what I want. The house is jointly owned so he can't do anything about it without me.
Am I prepared to deal with the house by myself apart from the memories? I'm not sure yet. The house is in a really perfect location for me right now for a variety of reasons, and I am still dealing with anger about needing to sell and move. I suppose that underlying that is a fear that I'll end up somewhere inconvenient, unsafe, not as nice. Are those outcomes realistic? Yes, probably not, and probably.
vera, sounds like you had a good day yesterday. Feeling fiesty is GOOD! LOL
No real advice on the house. Just take your time making your decision. But definitely don't keep it just because H is trying to rush the sell.
I'm not dragging my feet or trying to keep it to spite him or because he's rushing. I just want a clear head about it.
Okay, stupid question, and I think I already know the answer/comments I'm going to get on this.
H got me a book a few years ago. It's kind of a coffee table book type of book. I looked through it and that's about the use I had for it. I looked online and it actually retails for an amount that would make it worth selling (I've sold a lot of used books in the past). It was good to leave on the table so people could look at when they came over but other than that I don't really have much use for it.
The question is - am I a jerk for selling it? IF H noticed that I was selling it (and that's a big IF), he'd (mindreading) likely be pretty hurt and I (codependent) actually had a little pang in my heart when I thought about that. He was pretty proud about that book when he got it for me. But, I could use the cash and I'm always a fan of de-cluttering.
Thoughts?
I have sold a few books on Amazon so I would recommend you go on there and see what it sells for used. I have had some pretty nice books and go on there and find out they sell for 10 cents plus $3.99 postage. So it would check first to see if it would be worth the worry.
It's hard to say how it will go over. For me when I saw that she had taken the family frame and removed all the photos of me and my kids I felt pretty low. It is just a thing and if it would help you out then surely he would understand.
Take H out of it. It's a gift, you can do anything you want to it.
If I bought it for you, do you want to keep it or not?
Will you regret selling it or feel you will need to buy it again?
(BTW, I had the same question about a book that H bought me too!)
IMO in the stage he's in, he probably won't notice it. If he does he might take it as a sign that you've moved on and you're not that emotionally attached. When I was a WAW that's how I would have seen it whether I would have been hurt or thought good he's moving on..i don't know.
Thanks LIO. I don't think it's something I would need to buy again.
I think my reticence comes from a place that H used to bring me little gifts here and there and I wasn't always the best at accepting them (he has terrible taste in jewelry on his own). In my family we are very direct with our desired "gifts" (makes it easier around the holidays). I always feel very guilty if someone gets me something that I don't love or can't use because I feel terrible that they spent their hard-earned money on it (wow I guess that comes across as absurdly co-dependent... never realized that one before). As recently as my birthday this year, before BD, H got me a few things and seemed really nervous that I wouldn't like them. I made an effort to show that I did because I wanted him to know that I appreciated his thoughtfulness, even if they weren't necessarily things that I would have wanted for myself. All of this said gift giving isn't his primary LL (based on the quiz) but it's probably his third and still a fairly strong one.
Okay - so that was the context of that, anyway. So, in light of that, I was concerned that selling the book might be invalidating a LL gesture. Overanalyzing? I'm not even so sure what I'm supposed to be doing w/r/t his LLs anymore (primary is physical, obviously not meeting that, second is words of affirmation, have been doing that a little with things around the house that he does).
Last night he was on his way out to meet a friend for a drink and I was getting ready to GAL myself. He asked "Are you coming back tonight?" - 2nd night in a row I've gotten that. I guess he's noticed my GAL and the fact that I went out of town without telling him (on a weekend that he was also out of town). Interesting he keeps asking this since I asked it of him a few weekends ago when he was already out really late to know whether I could use the extra security lock on the door.
He also baked a fruit crisp last night. Before our GALs he'd said he could alter the recipe so that I could eat it, I said he didn't have to do that. When I got back, he'd made the crisp, and weirdly said something very loudly like "you can at least eat part of it!!" And I just looked at him because I was confused and then he said "Oh... I guess you can't. What am I saying?"
Indeed.
^^Having said all of that, I just thought that I could maybe think of it like this - selling the book would give me enough to pay for at least (and likely more than) 1 hour of my attorney's time. Hmm...
I think to wait on selling the book until you are sure how you feel about it either way. No need to make a decision that you are not yet fully comfortable with. You can always sell it later. But if you sell it now and don't feel right about it it will eat at you.
Fruit crisps, fajitas and laundry.... Hmmm..starting to sound like the title of a good book/ movie ( a la eat, pray and love!) ;-)
Haha bustingout, it's more like "Eat, Eat, Eat."
Today he asked if I wanted to make a special dish of ours with him this weekend and then I could have the leftovers while he's traveling this week (he's out of town for 12 days straight starting Monday, with a weekend trip to the place where possible/likely OW candidate lives). I tried to make a joke and told him that if he wanted it he could just say that instead of framing it as a way for me to get leftovers. He outlined his schedule for tomorrow and I said I wasn't sure when I'd be around, and he said "Well, I guess I could just make it myself. I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with that!" I said that I couldn't complain.
He also said he'd been trying to keep up with the laundry and dishes. I said he'd been doing a good job with the dishes and cleaning the kitchen.
He also asked if I'd gone to a movie last night (my movie candy boxes were still out on the dining room table) and asked how it was. I pointed out some issues I had with the movie plot and he said that he was proud of me as a "scientist" for noticing things like that (he's a science guy, I am not). That was kind of odd.
Have some more GAL scheduled this afternoon and tonight and a little bit tomorrow. I also really need to clean up a little - I've been so busy with gym and GAL that I haven't gotten around to it.
I took his stuff out of one of my dresser drawers; if he asks, I'm going to tell him that I need the space.
Good for you on the dresser drawer thing!
Is his plan to live there until the house sells?
It sounds like he's starting to feel like your rejecting his froendship he's finally mentioning it. I think the hard thing for me was when H detached but was still so nice and considerate. It was confusing I couldn't be angry at him and yet he still didn't want much to do with me.
Thanks Brit. He does intend to stay until the house is sold, he's made it clear he can't afford mortgage plus additonal rent.
Also - you may be right about the latter part - he just invited me to go with him to a (men's) clothing store. I said no thanks. Then he used his "sweetening the deal" voice and mentioned that there's an ice cream shop right next to the store. I had to say sorry, can't, have plans and I'm leaving here in a little bit, have fun. He seemed a little bit dejected. Oh well! Gonna put on a cute dress for a party tonight. Woo woo!
Enjoy the party and forget the men' s clothing store for now! For right one its about YOU! Enjoy!
My evening was great! While I was out I got a text from H that said, "going to bed, g'night" - REALLY early! Very odd from the same person that not so long ago was staying out until 5am! Tonight I was the one getting home well after bedtime.
^^It's weird huh? My H is doing that too - going to bed almost immediately after getting off work. From a person who would stay up until 1am each night. I like to think that the emotional toll is getting to them, they had all the energy from excitement before and now's the letdown - but who knows...
Happy to hear you enjoyed your evening!!! Yippee!!!
So this morning H was very chatty about the new clothes he picked up on his shopping trip yesterday, asked me if I liked what he got. I said the stuff looked good, but found it hard to care.
Then he said he was going to be reaching out to realtors today and tomorrow. Super.
Then he changed the time he wanted to make the special dish today. I told him I was waiting to hear back about plans and I wasn't sure if I'd be around when he wanted to make it, which was much earlier than the time he mentioned yesterday. He said he was going to the grocery store to pick up some ingredients and would be back around X time.
After he left I got a text from my friend that our plans were on, so I got ready and left and texted H "Plans firmed up, leaving now, back later." He wrote back "K have fun, I probably won't make the [dish]."
It kind of came across as a little tantrum, since he went from wanting to make it together, to saying he could still make it if I wasn't around, to saying he wasn't going to make it because I wasn't going to be around.
Whatever. I'm working on getting my journal notes in order for my call with Cheryl tomorrow. I can't believe it's been a month already since my last call - lots to talk about. But, it's my last call scheduled for now. I find it very hard to have any hope that H will change his mind at any point before D is final (or nearly final). Blah.
Going to start an art project later today instead of going to the gym. I walked home from the grocery store carrying my groceries so I think that was workout enough for today.
I had a read I think I'm going to go with Cheryl. I will be very interested to hear what she has to say about your H's behaviour. He is an interesting one!
I don't think he's over you. But I don't think he's realised that he's let you go if that makes sense. I was cake eating with H until he moved on. If he had started doing the things you've done I'm not sure how I would have reacted I think I would have confronted him and come around sooner...but that's my personality.
it's clear he was only making that dish to show he cared and in the beginning to spend time with you and when you didn't respond the way he wanted he withdrew the offer. I'm not sure if he knows that's what he's doing though.
How are feeling in general? You write a lot about what he does and what you do...do you find yourself missing his company?
good luck with your call tomorrow with Cheryl. keep us posted.
H just stopped in my room to talk about his band and then to talk about how not fun it was going to be to go to the father's day dinner with his extended family tonight.
Then he invited me to go along with him. "Thanks but I think I'll pass."
Hi Brit - thanks for asking about me. I had kind of a pity party for myself today. Was on the bus on the way to meet up with some friends and kept seeing families with young kids out for father's day. I felt sad that that's not something I'll be doing anytime soon, instead here I am on the city bus by myself.
Do I miss him? I certainly miss having the constant companion. Am I missing H, specifically, right now given the way he's acted recently? Ehh...
Things have gotten awkward for me a bit recently. H and I were extensive travelers and I've gotten a number of questions from people who don't know about our situation asking if we have any big summer trips planned. They all seem surprised when I tell them not really, just going home to visit family (by myself). So it both svcks that a) I don't have any big trips lined up and b) I am not traveling anywhere with H.
can you go on a trip yourself, verb - that would feel good wouldn't it?
today was probably a hard day for a lot of us because it was father's day. i know it was for me. we need to see it for what it was and just move on from it.
about missing h specifically - you hit it on the spot - i think eventually we miss more the feeling of the unit and connection we had rather than the person themselves - part of the detachment, and facing the reality of what it really is that we are missing
hope you are feeling better by now
zig
Hey zig. At some point down the road I would be able to do a trip by myself (or at least with friends). There are some logistical and financial issues right now that preclude it. I am doing another trip home in a few weeks, so I am looking forward to that.
I am feeling a little better. H is going out of town for nearly 2 weeks straight. I'm toying with the idea of doing some guerilla home improvement (painting a room) while he's gone. I also agreed to craft a bunch of things as gifts so I need to get that done because my craft table is in the guest bedroom where he's been staying.
I have all of my notes and questions printed out for my call with Cheryl today. A LOT of notes, haha! I'm going to have to figure out how to summarize them so the hour isn't taken up just by me reading them all!
Well, it's official: Cheryl said she'd never seen a situation where someone was so pursuant but still serving D papers. Congrats, H!
Maybe my next thread will be titled "The Pursuing WAH."
I love that title!!!! I think he's gonna flip out a la Brit circa March 2012 once he understands he's lost you.
Also if you want to visit me across the pond come on over!
i knew it! he's really confusing us all! i can't imagine how you feel. talk about mixed signals...
I hope the talk with Cheryl helped you with your next steps.
((( )))
Well H is off on his 12-day trip. I think he's actually stopping in the house Friday but will be leaving again before I'm home from work. I haven't heard from him at all today, which is a little unusual but less so because it's a travel day.
I borrowed a car to run some errands after work. What freedom! (I don't have a car... but now I want one!) Picked up some crafting supplies so I'm going to get started on that and then try to get to the gym tonight.
Earlier I'd mentioned sending an email to H and his friends about not going on a group vacation earlier this summer. I thought about it and realized I was reacting emotionally to being served, so I never sent it. I talked about it with Cheryl and she agreed that I should hold it in my pocket for now . . . a lot could happen in a few months and the trip could get canceled anyway and then it would be moot that I'm not going. So, we'll see how things develop.
She thought it was great that I never told him that I'd been served. About 9 days passed before I told him. (What a crack legal team he's got, they can't even send an email to say "Done.").
She actually suggested I contact a realtor to get an idea of what the house might be able to go for (without telling H immediately). I'll ponder that. If it is valued for less than we paid for it, that's not necessarily a bad thing right now. We'll see...
PS Brit - thanks for the invite
I had actually been hoping to make a jump back across the pond this year after the Olympics, before my current passport expired... not really in the cards right now. But someday.
But this reminds me - maybe I'll work on getting some not-atrocious headshots and work on my passport renewal application over the next few weeks...
Even taking small steps towards a goal that seems huge is good. A lot can happen and best to be in a good spot in case it does. Plus I just think it makes you feel good!
I made the mistake of looking at houses for sale in my neighborhood. . . there are some pretty cute places that are generally affordable and if I took on a roommate (I'm working hard to convince one of my co-workers, haha) it would be supremely affordable and MUCH cheaper than renting something similar. Tempted to agree to sell my house and not look back . . .
In all seriousness I am going to talk to a mortgage officer to see what situation I'm in to purchase something on my own, so that I can be prepared in the future. Rates are so low right now it would be almost silly not to consider it seriously.
I don't where I read this but I read that we can't be afraid if we're informed. The more information you get the more options you can consider and it won't seem so daunting.
Good luck!
You're right - fear comes from not knowing, many times.
H has sent me two "funny" messages since he left (although I didn't hear from him at all yesterday until around 9pm, when he emailed me a "funny" tee shirt). I haven't responded.
"it is a type of mental assertiveness that allows people to maintain their boundaries and psychic integrity when faced with the emotional demands of another person or group of persons."
Ver I found this definition on detachment thought you migh like it.
Hey Rick - thanks, I appreciate it!
Another email from H with a link to something relevant to my interests.
It's almost odd not having him here after he'd been here for a few weeks straight. I can really spread out and relaaaaaax.
Of note - I'd emailed both of his parents (separately) related to health concerns that H had told me about. They both responded with nice, but restrained notes. It's odd to think of them as STBX-IL's/non-family members.
Geez - it's almost TOO quiet in here tonight!! Better go put on some music...