LRT - Checking Progress - DivorceBusting.com

Old thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2248391#Post2248391

Reviewed Last Resort Technique today and want to see if I am on the right path.

Step 1 - Stop the Chase

First, you need to stop doing anything that your spouse might look at as pursuing behavior. Here are some examples of behavior that I would consider "pursuing."

Frequent phone calls
Begging your spouse to reconsider
Pointing out all the good in your marriage
Writing letters
Following your mate around the house
Encouraging talk about the future
Soliciting help from family members
Asking for reassurances
Buying gifts/flowers
Trying to schedule dates together
Spying on your spouse

I stopped the pursuing and begging a couple of weeks before LRT. In talks since, I have never brought up the R, M or future. I stopped asking for help from her sister.

I have invited her to do things with the Ds (beach, rollerblading, amusement park).

I stopped the spying, but had a slip earlier this week. I am back to not caring.

Step 2 - Get a Life
I think I am doing really good on this. I am happier and healthier. Changes I made will carry on no matter what happens with the W.

Step 3 - Wait and Watch

One of three things happens when you use the last-resort technique.

1) Nothing.

I don't think this is happening. Prior to the LRT, we scarcely communicated for a couple of weeks. She contacts me now. When we do talk, they are good "friend" conversations.

2) Your mate becomes curious.

S/he might start showing more interest in you, your whereabouts, and what you are up to in your life. Your spouse might even suggest you spend some time together to talk or do something enjoyable. It's also possible that your spouse might start asking you a lot of questions about your sudden changes. If any of these things begin to happen, here's my advice:

Be loving in return, but not overly excited or enthusiastic.

Identified this as a problem. I would get overly excited when we would hang out one on one. Not in front of her, but in my mind. I would think we were on the way to R, but get slammed down harder when nothing changed.

Accept some invitations to spend time together, but not all.

Here is my issue. I read on other posts to do things to show her what she is missing. I have been blasted for doing things with the W. She wants to have drinks with me. She wants to goto a movie. She wants to go rollerblading.

At this time, as long as there is a OM, I will not be doing anything. I feel like I am PLAN B and refuse to allow myself to be treated that way.

She wants to do things that are short. She wants to meet for drinks after work on Friday. I will be declining this invitation. What if I said I couldn't make it after work, but could do it after I put the Ds to bed, so around 10:30pm? Most likely she will say no. But if she says yes, then she can't make plans with others that night. I won't be Plan B.

The fear is she will stop asking me to do things.

Do not ask any questions about your future together.

I don't do this. However, I gave her a date in August when I would file for D. Do I let this date come and file or do I try to talk to her as the date approaches? She probably thinks I am bluffing.

Be vague when asked questions about the changes in you. Say that you are just thinking things through.

I try, but she pushes.

Continue to be upbeat.

Semi-good here. I know what brings me down, so I can better identify it and shift my thoughts.

At D3's birthday party, W was extremely irritable. I stayed upbeat and positive. After 6 hours, her attitude changed and she wanted me to spend time with her.

Do not say, "I love you"

Haven't said it in over a month.

Resist getting into conversations about your marriage.

I don't.

Beat your spouse to the punch when it comes time to leave or separate from each other at the end of an activity. You set the tone for going your separate ways.

I would say I do this 90% of the time.

3) Your spouse might have an overnight change of heart.

Would love for this to happen, but it isn't.

I always thought once the OM was gone, things would be good. Wishful thinking.

SIL told me a few things today she heard:

Friend of W is going out of town in July and invited W. W asked if OM could come. Friend said no, she doesn't like him and didn't want to be in a car with him for a few days.

If W knows I am filing in August, makes me think she either doesn't care or doesn't think I will do it. Why else would she plan an out of town trip with OM so close to D being filed.

SIL says OM is coming to an end

Finally. However....

SIL said friend told her that W said she needs to start dating other people.

Great. Nothing I can really do about that. I have a date in August and I am sticking to it unless we are working on our M as I told her.

How do I know if I have successfully detached?

Originally Posted By: LostIn407

How do I know if I have successfully detached?

You are not consumed by her anymore.
You worry about you and not her.

That is for starters

Detachment is like an onion it comes in layers

As you peel back each layer you will see other ways to accomplish this

"She wants to do things that are short. She wants to meet for drinks after work on Friday. I will be declining this invitation. What if I said I couldn't make it after work, but could do it after I put the Ds to bed, so around 10:30pm? Most likely she will say no. But if she says yes, then she can't make plans with others that night. I won't be Plan B."

The reality is, you are always Plan B when OM is in the picture or if she's looking for someone else to date. You can't have a healthy monogamous R with someone who is looking for it with someone else.

That's why it's really not in your favor to do things with W right now because your mind is in one place and hers is completely somewhere else. Too easy to get your hopes up and just causes you to backslide in the end. Get stronger and more confident in yourself and your life without W and then doing things with her won't be such a big deal. You truly will not have expectations.

Things I've learned...

Some more background:
We moved from the west to FL at the end of December in 2010. I was supposed to have a job lined up in FL that would be starting "soon". I returned to my job out west because it was really good money. The plan was to save as much as we could to prepare for a life of making less. During this time, my W and Ds lived with her father and grandmother.

My W hated this living arrangement. My job that was supposed to start "soon", started to drag on. I had planned to be living with my family in FL in February 2011. My wife had enough of living with her father and grandmother and rented a house for us. Not ideal as I wanted to save as much money as possible. The job offer finally came in April but was not what was originally offered. It was also far from the house my wife rented. I turned the job down and started to look for a new job.

I took the first job offered and finally moved to FL to be with my family in June 2011. The job I took was horrible. Horrible hours. Horrible pay. We blew through our savings adjusted to lower income.

My wife began working in October 2011. I took a new job in November 2011. This job I hated after one day, but stuck with it because of slightly more pay. It was more hours and more time away. I had to be at work at 6:30am at a job over an hour away so I was leaving the house by 5:00am and not returning until after 6:00pm.

This is when the W met the OM and the A began.

I am trying to detach and go as dim as possible. However, for a majority of 2011, we didn't spend much time together at all. From January 2011 until June 2011, I think we had less than 10 days together. We talked daily, but were not together in the same state.

I think not spending time with her is more of the same from 2011. We disconnected. I think I need to rebuild that connection.

But it all comes back to the OM and Plan B.

I think my W wants the attention that I wasn't giving her. I think over the year, she felt I was gone and replaced me. She already knows what it feels like for me to be gone physically. She has done a year of just talking and she gets that now as we must communicate because of our Ds.

I want to do the right thing. Do I fight for her or hope she didn't get adjusted to me being away for all of 2011? She did the single parent thing for 2011 as when I did make it to FL, I only had one day off a week. I believe this year of doing it all by herself made her want to "escape".

Responses are appreciated. Please don't make me wait two days for a response.

What is driving the August date? If you are in LRT now, June, and we all know it can take months to work, why the self imposed deadline? Some folks here do LRT for months or years, so I am confused with the rush. Please don't tell me you are trying to call her bluff, because if you are, and she does not bite, you will never be able to use that tactic again. It will not rid your life of the OM, or further your cause. Nowhere in the list of LRT tactics does it say "hurry up and file".

The August date was because I couldn't endure the pain. I wish I didn't set the date, but how can I back out of it?

It was a vague definition "If we are not working on our M but then", I guess I can just say we are working on it and that is why I didn't file.

Oh, there are a multitude of ways to not file and not lose face. I would defer to others on this board on that, but the pain will ease and I urge you not to file so soon. April to August is nothing, 5 short months. I bet you will feel so much better in August if your GAL is working. For me, I got maybe bomb #3 in April 2012, less than 2 months ago and I then went into full DB mode, coaching, going dark, GAL, 180s etc. and I feel great now. I have got to the stage where I feel detached, knowing that it is a process, a journey that has no fixed destaination, and I feel very strong. No fear of the future.

If I were you, I would just not file, and not volunteer any reason. Hopefully some of the more experienced board members can come up with something to say if pushed. I know in VA you cannot file until 12 months of separation if there are minor children involved. Don't know where you are, but maybe there is something to be said for delay for kids sake?

So your pain will be over if you file?

Rethink that.

Just don't bring it up filing again.

Did anyone read the post about what happened in 2011 and would like to maybe give me advice on that as I think it has a lot to do with where we are?

Yeah, I read it. Tough situation, but I wonder really if that was just a tipping point. How would you describe your R prior to the Florida thing? Only you can answer if you should "fight" for her, as you put it. But your choice of words is interesting. Fighting for her suggests non LRT tactics to me, and what you should be focusing on is you, your part in however this situation arose, and what you are going to do about it. I could go on about how my W and I ended up where we are, but it does not change anything, we are where we are! And the only path forward for me is the DB path if I want to save my M, which I do. Right now I would say that is a long shot, but I have time, and I am not dealing with OM (although I suspect EA with someone quite a distance away).

DR does not differentiate between how you got to where you are, it lays out the tactics that work. When you boil it all down, we're all dealing with spouses who for one reason or another have made the choice to not be in a R with us AT THIS TIME. The "treatment" for that is pretty much the same IMHO.

You want to do the right thing? Be the best father you can for your kids. Look after yourself. Detach and give her space because any pursuit right now is in vain. Do not be her plan B. Forget about filing.

Something else that crossed my mind, unrelated, is that again in VA, if one spouse commits adultery during the separation period, they can pretty much rule out getting custody of any kids. Have you consulted a L about this? If your W is openly flaunting her PA (wanting to bring OM on trip with friend) especially around your kids something should be done. I may have missed that in previous posts.

In FL, adultery doesn't matter. Divorces are 'no fault'. FL prefers Shared Parental Responsibility.

I come to this board to vent/think before I act, and it helps a lot. I tend to try to see all the angles before I act.

Before we moved to FL, the M was great. We had a good balance of family, work and going out together, just the two of us. It was the 6 months apart, the financial strain, the horrible work schedule that I believe led me here.

Before the move, I was making over $100k working a little over 32 hours a week. We had time and money to do a lot of things. I wouldn't have to leave for work until late afternoon so we could spend the day together. Five bedroom house and two nice cars. Friends to do things with when the other was busy. Friends with kids the same age. Friends to help watch the kids if we wanted to go out. All friends were mutual friends. She knew all of mine, I knew all of hers.

After the move, I was making $38k working 6 days a week and picked up a second job to help make ends meet. We had no time to spend together and no money to do anything. I had to go to work just after lunch so there was never time to do much. Three bedroom, cramped house. We had to default on a car. I sold mine to catch up and bought a piece of crap to get to work. No friends to do things with. No friends with kids. Family help we thought we would have was non-existent. The friends she found were not like the friends we had. She met people with questionable values. I haven't met many of her friends in FL.

I hope it doesn't matter how I got to where I am and that DR will work. I hope someone will validate this for me for my fear the going dim is just more of the same for the W.

All I can do now is be the best father for my kids.

I am looking after myself and think this is where I am doing the best.

I am willing to give her as much space as she needs/wants. She has told me she might need the full term of her one year lease.

I won't file. If she questions me, I will tell her that I thought we were working on the M so I didn't need to file. I do not think she wants a D. She has never mentioned it.

I won't be her Plan B. I think about trying to "win" against the OM, but I think I would rather have the OM "lose". As long as she has my good times, she can filter her time with the OM to get his good times only. I need to eliminate the good I give her so she can see what she is missing. I need to let the OM play its course. I just need to repeat that to myself. It gets easier, but I am human and sometimes break.

I do believe the tactics are working and need to give them more time.

Here is my personal 'win' for the day:
W text me asking if we were still meeting for a drink after work.
I tell her that I am busy at work and won't be able to leave early. (A lie. My boss is leaving early and I have nothing to do).
I then send her a text that I would be able to meet her after I put the Ds down around 10:30pm, so I can have more than a quick drink with her.
She replies "I have plans later raincheck"

How did I 'win'?
I denied her request. 180 for me. Old me would have left work extra early to spend more time with her.
I am letting her know I won't be giving her what she needs (me) according to her schedule. If she wants to spend time with me, she is going to have to commit to it. I am not her plan until her 'better' plans are available.
In my mind, once I see her willing to commit time to me, I will see this as progress.

UKVA, thanks for responding. When I get down on myself, it helps to have someone out there willing to listen/respond.

Good. Better would be:

W text me asking if we were still meeting for a drink after work.
I tell her that I am UNAVAILABLE and leave it at that. Telling her you are busy at work tells her you cannot make it, not that you choose not to make it. Also it is a lie, do you like not telling the truth? Just say you cannot, make her wonder why. What could he be doing that is more attractive than spending time with me? He always wanted to be with me, what has changed? Oh dear, perhaps he is turning the tables on me?

Plus I would NOT have offered the alternative time. You are still making yourself a plan B if OM is around. I do not know what inference you took from the "I have plans" response, but obviously something more attractive than spending time with you. Stop being a dorrmat.

Glad to help. Here is my thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2243269#Post2243269

Tell me what you think. I may be a bit quiet for 4 days, will be in Orlando (of all places) with my D11 until Tuesday night.

Good points. I will definitely put them into play in the future.

Plus I would NOT have offered the alternative time. You are still making yourself a plan B if OM is around. I do not know what inference you took from the "I have plans" response, but obviously something more attractive than spending time with you. Stop being a dorrmat.

I guess I did the alternate time as a 'test' to see where she stood. For my benefit only.

I can honestly say I don't give a rat's @ss what her plans are. I used to beat myself up thinking about what she was doing and how her spending time with me would be better. I fully acknowledge the OM and other plans and refuse to waste my time anymore thinking about it.

At this time, my W needs space. She needs to figure out what she wants. The PA with the OM needs to play its course, which I will say is not as strong as it was a few weeks ago.

I am not the 'best' option in my W's eyes right now. She believes I am her best friend and will always be there for her, no matter what she does or how long it takes. She thinks she has me on a string and I will come running when she calls. By detaching and going dim, I hope my W sees that this isn't true. I will move on and better myself.

I am not sitting here waiting for my W to come back to me. I GAL. I am doing things that make me happy. I am doing things I always wanted to do but put off.

I am not dying, but I have a 'bucket list' of things I want to do:
- Stand Up Paddleboarding
- Kayaking
- Learn to surf
- Learn to play the guitar
- Travel more

Gift of time? Yes, it actually is. As my M was before, I didn't have time or desire to make time for these activities. I am not wasting the time I have now.

Not sure what your plans are when in Orlando, but if you go online and check ticket specials for LegoLand, they have a good deal. It just opened a few months ago and I have heard good things about it. I plan on taking my Ds there this month.

There is a Pepsi coupon code that is 'buy one adult, get one child free'.

Lost, I agree with UKVA - you don't need to get into specifics of why you can't meet up. Being vague creates mystery which will naturally cause her attention to perk up. Let her wonder why you can't meet up. If she throws a time out in the future, in the alternative of saying you're unavailable, you can just say, "Sorry, that doesn't work for me."

By giving her an alternate time to meet up, you gave her an opportunity to shut you down.

You are right to want to let her do a little of the legwork in terms of meeting up with you. But be careful that you aren't getting into the trap of tallying "wins" and "losses" for each of you - that can be very destructive to your DB mindset and in any future R with her.

Quick note:
I leave work around 5pm. I have to pick my Ds up from day care by 6:30pm. My W knows that I can't make plans after work on the days I have the Ds. I can't use the aura of mystery.

"Sorry, that doesn't work for me", in my eyes, wouldn't work either as I feel I would be coming off as an a-hole.

I could say "No thanks, I would prefer the opportunity to spend more than 20 minutes with you and not be pressured to leave to get the Ds before daycare closes". Or is that pressuring her/pursuing?

Certainly pressuring/pursuing. And the comment that is does not work for you is not so much about the logistics as it is your disposition. We are not asking you to be deliberatley rude, as saying "I can't see any valid reason for seeing you" would be, just somewhat ambivalent towards the prospect. Everytime you want to replace 6 words with 28, stop and go back to the 6. Simplify. Your second answer tells her EXACTLY why you cannot make it, why do you want to do that again?

Orlando? 4 nights in Universal! Loews Royal Pacific Resort!

W just texted me again asking if I wanted to meet her for a drink. So hard to tell her no because I really want to do it.

If OM is still in the picture, BE STRONG my friend. Do you imagine she will say "well, that's it, he won't meet me for a drink, I am really done".

I mean, it's up to you. The 37 rules indicate to accept some, but not all, invitations. Maybe this is one that you accept and the next one you don't.

This is what I think she is thinking:
"He never wanted to do anything when we were together, and still doesn't want to do anything while we are apart. He hasn't changed. There is no point in going back."

or

"I think we need to reconnect as friends first. Having a drink together is a start."

You will drive yourself crazy trying to figure out what she is thinking. That is why DB'ing involves focusing on yourself and not what your S is thinking.

Have you talked to a DB coach?

What is YOUR objective for meeting? Remember the OM is still in the picture. I don't think this is step one in a reconciliation process. Make sure to be authentic to what you are driving towards. This certainly WILL NOT help detaching.

Or she is thinking, have some time to kill, who will keep me company. Or, or, or!

As everyone is saying, you will make yourself crazy trying to figure out what she is thinking...you have to do what is best for you and for what gives you the greatest chance of actually generating a change in the relationship. Please talk to a coach to get the best advice on how to go forward to accomplish this. It is the quickest way to figure out how to go forward. Take good care and take advantage of special pricing today.

I think W wants to make it a regular thing, we get together after work on Friday and have a drink. We did it last Friday.

OM is still in the picture, but I have heard he may be on the way out. His time spent overnight at W apartment is been cut dramatically.

Do I think I think she has some time to kill and I am filler?

Yes.

Do I think it can be an opening to more time?

Yes. My chance for her to see my changes.

Do I think she is trying to have her cake and eat it too?

Yes.

Will I meet her today for drinks?

No. She has been told I don't want to do things with her while she is with OM. Maybe she thinks this has changed. Maybe I need to remind her and tell her. However, we have plans to go to an amusement park with the Ds next weekend. I would prefer to avoid doing anything that may have her change her mind. This is a family day.

I have denied two of her requests to spend time with me this week. The first was a movie on Tuesday. She ended up going Wednesday night with (I assume) OM. Shared bank account that I don't use but saw charge. I only check bank account because I am in the process of moving all of my auto-drafts from the account we shared to my account.

Saturday night is my GAL night. I could offer to raincheck on drinks to Saturday night. However, she has the Ds that night so it isn't like she has any other option. But then that is me asking her, which is pursuing.

I would love to get a DB coach, but right now I cannot do it financially. W is own her own financially now, but it cost a lot to get her setup. I also pay all the daycare expenses. She took the bedroom set, so I need to buy furniture first. I look good moneywise for July, but June is tight.

When I get down on my situation, I think about this song. My W sent me a text when this first started on how this was 'our' song. She quickly changed it to how it is 'my' song to her. But D13 tells me when it comes on the radio, she turns it up.

Jason Mraz "I Won't Give Up"

When I look into your eyes
It's like watching the night sky
Or a beautiful sunrise
There's so much they hold
And just like them old stars
I see that you've come so far
To be right where you are
How old is your soul?

I won't give up on us
Even if the skies get rough
I'm giving you all my love
I'm still looking up

And when you're needing your space
To do some navigating
I'll be here patiently waiting
To see what you find

'Cause even the stars they burn
Some even fall to the earth
We've got a lot to learn
God knows we're worth it
No, I won't give up

I don't wanna be someone who walks away so easily
I'm here to stay and make the difference that I can make
Our differences they do a lot to teach us how to use
The tools and gifts we got yeah, we got a lot at stake
And in the end, you're still my friend at least we did intend
For us to work we didn't break, we didn't burn
We had to learn how to bend without the world caving in
I had to learn what I've got, and what I'm not
And who I am

I won't give up on us
Even if the skies get rough
I'm giving you all my love
I'm still looking up
Still looking up.

I won't give up on us (no I'm not giving up)
God knows I'm tough enough (I am tough, I am loved)
We've got a lot to learn (we're alive, we are loved)
God knows we're worth it (and we're worth it)

I won't give up on us
Even if the skies get rough
I'm giving you all my love
I'm still looking up

Journaling:

D13 decided to spend the night with a friend. D4 is spending the night with her grandmother. That means it is just W and D3 tonight, which means OM will be there. Honestly, I don't care anymore. She is cut off financially because this is what she wants to do. I am not going to stand in her way.

When she came to pickup D3, she sat and wanted to chat a bit. She asked me what I was doing tonight. I told her I had plans. She asked if it was with a male or female. I simply told her "I don't ask you what you do on your nights, so I won't tell you what I do." I asked what she planned on doing tonight with D3 and she said "I think you know what I am doing". I just ignored it.

I told her I planned on going rollerblading tonight but the weather didn't cooperate. She said she wanted me to call her if I go on Sunday. I won't. I am not her Plan B. She has nothing else to do tomorrow since OM is a work.

This week will be pretty dim/dark until Sunday when I take the Ds to an amusement park and W is going.

I think I am doing ok. I sleep fine at night and don't worry about what she is doing. I am worrying about myself.

Overall, I think I am in a better place. I don't worry about her and OM.

I hope you didn't invite her to the amusement park. I would stop doing anything with her that resembles a family, I wouldn't even chat with her... only important stuff about the kids, period! Make it clear that as long as there is OM in the picture, you will only be tolerating her, no friendship...

I invited her weeks ago. If she wants to back out, I won't stop her.

If she does join us, it will be the first thing we do together in a couple of weeks.

Lesson learned. I see the error in my ways. The invite was pre-Plan B revelation.

Have you split up property? My wige cleaned me out one weekend when I was busy, since she had not served me she could... take photos of everything
.. it will probably get real ugly before it gets better...

absolutely love that song... had been asking God for a sign about what to do after getting the "speech" from my WAW... went to mass with my son for his last day of school and the school choir sang that song!! totally a sign from God to not give up on my W... and I haven't yet... keep the faith...

She has her apartment. We have separate bank accounts. She gets no financial support from me.

Her account is our joint account since she has a lot of things tied to it. I am using an account I had before we were married. When I log on to check my account, they are linked so I can see both. She is in for a rude awakening come July 1 when her rent is due based on what I see in her account.

But yes, we are split properly. Set visitation agreement we have been keeping for over a month. Split finances.

I don't remember if you got served or not... if not, I would cut her off all insurances; health, car, home, life, as well.... once served you cannot change insurance coverage. Make her really feel what it like not to be married.

Originally Posted By: peringo

I don't remember if you got served or not... if not, I would cut her off all insurances; health, car, home, life, as well.... once served you cannot change insurance coverage. Make her really feel what it like not to be married.

I don't know that you would want to push it this far. Didn't you say that your W hasn't even brought up D yet? To me, these actions just sound vindictive.

I am in no hurry to file for D. I see no difference in my sitch now or if I filed for D. She has her own insurance, car is in her name, apartment is in her name. Everything is neatly divided. I do pay for car insurance, but it is minimal as my car is a piece of crap. Multi-car discount and such, I would only save like $50 a month. Not an issue for me right now.

Journal:
Woke up today and the weather was nice. Been storming a lot lately. I decided to go rollerblading and then do some yardwork while it was still nice out.

At 11:00am, W stopped by unexpectantly. I was under the impression I was dropping off D13 to her. She sat in the driveway and didn't come in. I didn't go out. D13 came back in asking for the bathing suits for D3 and D4. I took them to the W. She asked if I got her text, I told her I hadn't checked my phone in a bit.

She said she texted me that it was good weather to go rollerblading. I told her I already went this morning. She was mildly upset. I told her I knew she had plans and wouldn't go anyways. (based on her comment last night 'I think you know what I am doing tonight (OM)). She played it off that she likes to sleep in and likes to go later.

She then invited me to go swimming with her and the Ds. I told her I had to do laundry today. She said I could do it at her place. I told her I would get back with her later.

What to do? I can go and spend the time with my Ds and not focus on the W, but not ignore her. Or I can just continue with my plans today.

OM=NO HUBBY... no hubby duties... she wants you there to help with the kids... let her be a single mom...

I would extremely limit co-parenting time... studies show that give children false hope and security...

I was running some errands and the last errand caused me to pass by her apartment. I decided to stop. They weren't at the pool. I got back into my car and called to let her know I stopped by but they weren't there.

She said they were eating lunch and invited me to come up. I declined and went to finish my errands.

Last errand was some clothes shopping for me since I have been working out and losing a lot of weight. I must say, I look good. W sent me another text saying they were at the pool. I decided to stop by as I wanted to spend some swimming time with my Ds.

I hardly said a word to W, but wasn't rude. I concentrated on my Ds and being their dad.

I was the one to say goodbye first as I left while they were still swimming. W invited me to stay and have dinner. I said I had dinner started at my house already and left.

Trying hard to completely avoid time with W, but it is really hard with the Ds. I am doing a much better job.

You are doing a good job. I commend you because I know that would be very hard. It's almost easier that my H doesn't ask me to do anything with him. I'll never have to worry about being put in that situation. It takes a lot of willpower.

Spending time with the kids is hard to resist, I struggle with that to, it doesa soften momsmoms heart alittleto to seeYOU kids havingto fun withto dad, just make sure by doing so you are not giving her any freedom from parenting.... if the kids start to get unruly on her time, hit the bricks... let her deal.

So today my SIL told my W she would be watching the Ds in a couple of weeks because I was going out of town. Going somewhere the W and I wanted to go but never did.

I guess this upset the W. SIL said she was talking to the W fine but once she told the W, she changed. W said she saw me last night and I didn't mention the trip. W asked the SIL when I asked if she could watch the Ds and she said Friday.

My guess is the W is going to try to rush to plan a trip out of town with OM in spite. Whatever. I am going with W's cousin as he has become my hang-out buddy. It is part of my GAL plan, to travel more and not sit around all the time.

Reminds me about a comment the W made on Saturday. She said "You go out more than I do". I had to laugh at this. I have the Ds more than her. I am working a second job. I guess the nights I tell her I have plans, she thinks I am going out.

Expecting it to be bad this week with the W doing things intentionally to get my attention in a negative way.

Thing is, I would rather take my W and enjoy the trip. But no way in h3ll I am doing that while the OM is around.

So is the SIL your wifes sister? and your taking a trip with W's cousin.... hmmm think you could get her whole family to go no contact

good for you, lost! way to add mystery and let her feel the loss and see what life is like without you.

W's family is 99% on my side and think the W is out of her mind. W hasn't talked to her family since this happened, except for her sister.

Only person on the W's side is her mother, who is a piece of work. Her mother did the same thing to her dad. Multiple OM, walked out on family. When her mom and dad divorced, W went with mom and all others stayed with dad. A decision my W has said she regrets to this day.

W made a comment to a friend that her mom used to choose men over her. My W is doing the same thing now.

W is confused. I am giving her time and space. And that space is getting larger and larger every day.

Just waiting for the W's response to the news of my trip. I know my W. It won't be pretty.

With that background info... I'm not sure NC will work... more like an intervention... my heart goes out to your kids...

Well, finally had the no contact talk with the W.

She text me upset I didn't tell her I wanted to go on a trip, etc. I reminded her that I mentioned wanting to go a couple of weeks ago.

I then told her that I would rather go with her but the way things are with us, I know it isn't possible.

She responded she would go with me but we would need separate beds, but I'm sure that doesn't interest you on bit.

I responded that as long as there was someone else in her life, I couldn't do anything with her. As hard as it is for me, I need to give her space and time and worry about myself. I told her that doesn't mean I am giving up on us, but I have to prepare myself for what might come.

She responded "That I understand".

I let her know that I have no hard feelings toward her and I am not judging her. I told her that this is her journey and she has a lot to think about that I can't interfere in. I told her that I have a lot to think about as well. I told her when she has completed her journey, maybe we can work on us or maybe we go our separate ways.

So that's it. Now I know I have laid out my guidelines and boundaries. There is no grey area anymore. Last Resort Technique or Last Last Resort Technique. Either way, I am fine. I know that I need to see other people but refuse to do so while I know I would leave them if W came back. I think when that August date comes up, I will allow myself to date again.

Is it wrong that I am actually more concerned with my GAL than my W or is that a sign that I am getting to the right frame of mind?

So many things I want to do regarding GAL, but I have to wait. I want to go kayaking or standup paddle boarding, but I have to wait a month to do it as my first weekend without the Ds, I am taking a trip.

I want to sign up for a flag football league again but that doesn't start until the end of July.

I was too impatient with waiting on the W, now I am too impatient on GAL.

I can't win...

Journaling:

So I was expecting the W to react to finding out about my trip out of town. I guess she has done it, but it doesn't bother me.

Since the separation, she has always come to my house to get the Ds on her days. She would spend a few hours at my place catching up with the cats and dog and then go back to her apartment. I can drive by her apartment on my way to work in the morning and have always offered to save her the trip of picking up the Ds. She always refused. I knew the OM was spending nights at her apartment and I guess she respected my boundary of the OM not being around my Ds.

After my W got upset about my trip, she decided I should bring the Ds to her. Of course the OM's car is there. Is this supposed to make me upset?

My M is dead. I can accept that now. It doesn't mean I am giving up on my W, but what we had is dead and gone. If we reconcile, it will be a new R and M. There are too many issues we will have to work on.

I can honestly say I am in a good place. I don't spend all day thinking about my W. I could care less about OM.

The OM is starting to become old news. She has been with him long enough that he isn't new anymore. She knows what he is.

Me, I am a new person. I am better than I used to be. When I went swimming the the Ds at the W's apartment the other day, I caught her watching me take off my shirt. The body I have now is dramatically different than when we were together. I am wearing clothes the W has never seen me wear or I haven't worn in a long time because of the weight gain. I can see how my changes are being noticed.

I am going to continue to GAL and become someone only a fool would leave. I do it for me and noone else. I enjoy the new me. I look back at the old me sitting on the couch like a blob. Laying on the couch watching TV until late at night because I was too depressed. I didn't like myself and that affected our sex life because I was embarrassed to be naked.

It is important to learn from our mistakes. I made a ton of mistakes in our M. I might not have my W now, but the changes I have made make me happy and I will continue on my path.

It sounds like you are in a good place and doing the right things. Keep it up!

So tomorrow (Sunday) is the trip to the amusement park with the Ds and the W. It will be our first time extended time together since I told her I didn't want to do things with her as long as she is in a relationship.

She called me last night to talk about some D items and said I should be at her place at 8:00am on Sunday. I told her that 8:00am was really early as I don't think the park opens until 10:00am. I told her that 8:00am was fine and maybe we can grab breakfast somewhere first. My W loves to go out for breakfast and was excited at that. This will be our first time dining out together as a family since April.

I am going to play it cool on Sunday and just be the new me. This day is about my Ds having fun. I will do not R talk. I will do no M talk. I will do not OM talk. I need to keep repeating this in my head.

My goal is just to be who I am and let the W see what she is missing. Going to be the man only a fool would leave.

I try to stay positive and upbeat, which I think I am 95% of the time. I have no clue what the W is thinking and I stopped trying to find out a long time ago. I just pray that one day I will get a sign. I would love to know what I am doing is working.

Wish me luck on Sunday.

Sounds like you're doing really well...and have a lot of fun!!

Quote:

So tomorrow (Sunday) is the trip to the amusement park with the Ds and the W. It will be our first time extended time together since I told her I didn't want to do things with her as long as she is in a relationship

How is this NC?

Yes, "trip with W" and "I don't want to do things with her" are contradictory. She may think your changes don't really mean anything, too?

Just a thought.

Detach and GAL is easy. Out of sight, out of mind. Be selfish. Concentrate on me.

Spending time with the W is what destroys me. I have been doing good for a couple of weeks now as we haven't done anything together except for D3's birthday party and swimming with the Ds for an hour.

With tomorrow being a full day, I can't stop my mind racing. Tonight is going to be very rough for me. Tomorrow when I am with her, I will be fine. I can concentrate on the Ds and my plan of no talking about R, M or OM. Be the man only a fool would leave.

I just need to get through today and tonight. I have to stop myself from thinking that this is anything more than a day at an amusement park for the Ds. Yet, I can't stop thinking that this is a start of something. I can't stop thinking that maybe I should do more things with the W so she can see the new me. One of her reasons for the OM was we never did anything anymore. [Insert loud screaming of profanities here]

People who have had success with DBing a marriage where there is an OM involved, I need help. It is easy to say "nothing until she leaves the OM", but is it that cut and dry?

Tomorrow I will be fine. I can concentrate on the task at hand. Today, tonight and after tomorrow I think I am going to be a mess.

I know this post is the opposite of my last post, but my mind is swirling right now.

Damnit. Wrong thread. Sorry.

Damint. Right thread. Wow. My mind is really going right now.

Bring a date, clue her in to whats going on.... piss the wife off... wouldn't that be fun

I'm having one of those bitter days.... lol

How is this NC?

Yes, "trip with W" and "I don't want to do things with her" are contradictory. She may think your changes don't really mean anything, too?

Just a thought.

Trip was planned before talk about NC/no 'dates' was made.

I have three daughters and want them to experience this new amusement park with both their parents as this is a combo birthday present for D3 and D4 as their birthdays are close to each other. I don't plan on doing two birthdays for each D (one with me, one with W). I don't think we will have two Christmasses, etc. I think my W and I are mature enough to co-exist for a few hours even if this ends in D.

Cake-eating? Probably.

Too much hope on my part? Definitely.

After this Sunday, I will go back to detach/GAL and be fine. H3ll, I will be fine tonight as it is my night without the Ds. I can keep myself busy. Unfortunately, I got called into work today so my usual routine of nothing to do so I sit around and think has set in.

I have never been the type to wait on other people. I have always been the first one to make the move. Whether it was an argument between friends or a GF, I would always be the person to take the first step to end the conflict/tension. This is the toughest 180 for me.

i'm a peacemaker, too. it's hard to not smooth things over and get back to a good relationship. i think they know this and take advantage of it, too.

however, some of it is our co-dependence and not setting boundaries. i'm glad you're setting them now and holding out for the kind of R/M you can live with.

otherwise, you'll keep doing this over and over.

good luck.

I think if it were me, I wouldn't go with W. I would have invited another relative to join me, or a friend. You're not the one having an affair. You shouldn't be expected to spend a day at an amusement park with a cheating spouse who continues to cheat on you openly. No one would expect that from you. And your W really has no right to ever expect that from you while she continues on with her behavior.

Your girls are little enough that they wouldn't be that heartbroken if you were to have invited someone else to go with all of you. Or if you had just gone with them yourself and you alone.

I think you're right, you are doing this because you're thinking this is going to be the next step to making things better. Which is exactly opposite of where your mind should be. That may put you in a bad situation because you're expecting too much. Maybe you're trying not to, but I think deep down you are expecting something wonderful to come out of it.

^^^Like

One step forward, one step back, one step forward...

Ready for the abuse, so let me have it...

Saturday was a rough day for me. When I was leaving work on Friday, they asked if I could come in on Saturday because they were making some big changes and needed me there. I had to get my SIL to watch my Ds for me since I had to be in early on Saturday. I ended up putting in a ten hour day.

Shortly after I got home, W calls me. She said she is just getting off work (which is an hour and a half later than normal) and wanted to know if I wanted to grab a drink and something to eat before she picked up the Ds as Saturday is her night. Such a rough day, I decided to say yes this time after saying no for two weeks.

We stopped for a drink and had a really good time together. Talking and laughing a lot. We decided to have dinner and did a lot of talking. She talked about how it was when we first starting dating. How she was seeing someone else and I won her heart. She apologized for how things have been and what she did was wrong. (OMG, finally). But didn't say she was done with OM (WTF).

In the talks, she told me how W and OM argue a lot and how we never argued. I told her how I was going to tell her no tonight because I am too good to be her Plan B. She reasoned that there is nothing wrong with hanging out as friends and how people do it all the time. I told her that until we are done, that isn't a good idea for me.

She went back to how she fell in love with me the first time. She liked how I won her over. She explained to me how she is older and is confused on what she wants. How she wants to do things with me, etc. I told her that there are a millions things I want to do with her, but while the OM is around, I will not do it.

She complimented me a lot. How much better I was looking due to my working out. How much nicer I was dressing. She told me she isn't having as much fun going out anymore. (When she first moved into her apartment, she was all about going out every night).

She called her mom and told her she would pickup the Ds in the morning so she could hang out with me late.

After dinner, we had more drinks and did a lot more laughing and talking. We went to a late movie, but couldn't make it as it didn't interest us. We bounced between movies and finally decided to call it a night shortly before 1:00am because we had to be up early for our trip to the amusement park.

I paid for everything as I am old-fashioned and believe the man should pay. She said it was refreshing. This is because OM is a loser and she ends up paying all the time.

It ended with a hug. Nothing physical. No kissing.

Today at the park, we had a decent time. It was about the Ds as the amusement park we went to was for little kids, not much for adults. No R talk. No M talk. I didn't pursue.

On the way home, all the Ds were asleep in the back seat. She talked more about how nice it is to do things together. I reminded her why we won't be doing things and once the OM is gone, things will be different. She said "what is wrong with competition?" I told her I wasn't going to do that.

My plan is still to detach/GAL. I am not changing my plans to go out of town next weekend. I read it in DR, it says to say yes to some invitations, so I didn't see anything wrong with saying yes on Saturday.

But...
I think back to the reasons the W gave for why she wanted to get away/OM:
- I didn't show her any affection, she felt neglected
- I let myself go
- I never wanted to do anything, she felt her life was going nowhere
- I was depressed and in a funk

So how am I doing on this list?
- I didn't show her any affection, she felt neglected

She wants me to chase her. She wants me to win her again.

- I let myself go

She told me repeatedly that I have made tremendous gains here.

- I never wanted to do anything, she felt her life was going nowhere

She commented on how what I am doing sounds fun and wants to do them with me.

- I was depressed and in a funk

She said she can tell I am much happier.

I really think my W wants to feel desired. She wants me to court her again and win her.

I have no doubt in my mind that OM would be gone within a month if I decided to 'win' her. But I also think if I stay detached/GAL, OM will be gone soon regardless.

I know the 37 rules.

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

She wants me to pursue and chase her. This is the confusing part.

OK, I am ready to get beat up by you.

Seriously?? What is wrong with a little competition?? I think I would punch my H in the face if he said something like that to me. That is VERY disrespectful if you ask me.

She still sounds like she doesn't respect you. This is a game to her and I would show her you're not playing until she can end things with OM. Don't just TELL her, SHOW her.

How can a person treat the father of their children this way? I'm confused at what she thinks M is.

I think you're doing well and it's obvious that she's still attracted to you but you need to really commit to keeping your distance while OM is in the picture if you want to gain back that respect from her. A little bit of cake eating is what I'm seeing.

Yeah, I am not going to do it. I am sticking to my guns here.

She knows what she is losing. It is up to her as she knows what she has to do.

She told me last night how my attitude has changed. She said she knew how bad I took it at first, but now I am a lot more confident and happy.

Going to stay on path with detach/GAL. It is working. A month ago, I would have been a wreck after spending time with W. Now I am fine. No anticipation. I am happy with me.

Posted by zig on scaredsilly thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2255217&page=1

"it is often written on this board about how, if they sense us withdrawing even the slightest - they move a little closer - all they are doing is checking to see if you're really still there - when they feel you are, then they can happily withdraw again -

it's only when you finally detach that they really start thinking about what they are doing. but the detachment doesn't come easy or quickly - it takes a long drawn out process."

The beauty of this forum is that you can find answers in other people's threads.

This is exactly what my W did to me this weekend and I fell for it (again!) like a fool. She saw me detaching and moved closer to see where she stood with me. She saw that her hooks were still in, so I anticipate she will withdraw from me again.

At least I have identified the main issue I have left to work on and can work on keeping myself out of these situations.

Going to keep on my path. I fell down this weekend, but I am going to pick myself up and will keep moving forward. My recovery time is getting a lot better. In the past if I took a step backward, I would dwell on it and let it consume me. Today, I know I just need to get up and keep moving forward.

It just really svcks when you are looking for any reason, any indication, any sign that things are improving because you want your W back so bad. I can't believe I even considered competing for my W. I saw it as a way to spend more time with my W but when I take a step back, I can see how stupid that is. I cannot allow that to happen.

A big thank you to everyone who posts on these forums. Whether you respond to my thread or another, your words are helpful.

How long does it take, once you've detached, for the other person to start getting a little bit closer? It has been two weeks for me, one week of NO contact, and we are getting more and more distant from one another. There has to be, like, a breaking point, right?

I can tell you the history for me and you can see where I screwed up and made this last longer than it should:

Middle April 2012 (3 days)
I find out about the OM. At first I try to stay together in the same bed and do more things with the W. She doesn't stop seeing OM. I go stay with FIL, we don't talk.

3 days she asks me to come home.

May 2012 (3 weeks)
She gets an apartment. I think it is going to be good for us, give her space. She uses it to go out all the time and spend a lot of time with OM while still wanting to spend time with me. I tell her I won't spend any time with her anymore while she sees OM. Step into what I thought was LRT. Tell her she has until August before I file (mistake!!!!).

Just under 3 weeks she asks me to meet for a drink and we have D3's birthday party. The next week she wants to goto a movie, have more drinks, etc. OM still around. I debate spending time with her but come to my senses and stay away.

June 16, 2012 (two weeks)
Haven't done anything not family related since D3 birthday. She asks me out just the two of us. Was a good time. I can tell she sees I am detaching.

My W is going about every two weeks between checking her position with me. I keep falling for it, but between each time, I go darker and GAL more. I have to force myself to say no to her more, let her think I won't always be there.

She is noticing the changes in me and admitting them. I no longer initiate any contact. I do not invite her out unless it is family related as I don't want to deprive my Ds of experiencing certain things without their mom present.

I do not plan on the W needing to check her position with me for a few weeks, so just going to GAL. Going out of town this weekend. Working on plans for the next weekend.

Detach/dark/dim/GAL does work, if you let it. Just get over the fear you will lose them. You may lose them anyways, so concentrate on yourself. Be selfish.

Just get over the fear you will lose them. You may lose them anyways, so concentrate on yourself. Be selfish.

Just wanted to highlight that great advice.

Originally Posted By: sophiedaphne

How long does it take, once you've detached, for the other person to start getting a little bit closer? It has been two weeks for me, one week of NO contact, and we are getting more and more distant from one another. There has to be, like, a breaking point, right?

Sophie, I don't know if you quite understand what detaching really means here. It's the point where you (the LBS) don't care one way or the other whether you stay with your spouse or not. You're indifferent to the situation. So therefore, anything you do, you do it because YOU want to, not because it will change your spouse's mind about you.

It's a level of acceptance and gaining back your self-esteem. Knowing that you're a person worth being married to and if your spouse doesn't see that then you really are ok with not being with them anymore. Because now you see that you've made all of this progression and you're not the same person you once were.

It's when the changes are real and they've become who you are as a person. Making you better than you ever were before. This takes A LOT of time to accomplish. Changing habits and behaviors is not an overnight/two week deal. It takes months.

Sophie, I don't know if you quite understand what detaching really means here. It's the point where you (the LBS) don't care one way or the other whether you stay with your spouse or not. You're indifferent to the situation. So therefore, anything you do, you do it because YOU want to, not because it will change your spouse's mind about you.

That pretty much sums it up. I had to stop doing what I thought my W wanted and start doing what I wanted.

When I found out about the OM, I had to know everything. I started to do things I thought the OM was doing because I thought that is what my W wanted. I wasn't doing them for me, I was doing them because I thought that is what my W waned.

Hypothetical:
I do what my W wants in a H. What has she done that I want in a W besides being with her? Where in that situation does my M or R get better? Where have we addressed the problems in our M that led to this? If we never address the problems in the M, what is going to prevent it from happening again?

I struggle with my desire just to be with my W again and working on my M.

I could easily be with my W again and HOPE we can work on the issues that led us apart.

Or we can identify what led us apart, work on those issues and then see if we can rebuild our M.

Neither scenario guarantees we make it.

My M is over. I finally realize that. What I am working on now is IF we start a new M. The old M is gone. I have let it go. I don't want to go back to the old M. There were problems we never addressed or knew existed. If there is a new R/M, it can only move forward if we work on those issues/problems.

Update:
Doing good. Doing a better job with trying to eliminate any expectations and just concentrating on myself and my Ds.

On Monday, W mentioned to me found bedroom furniture on Craigslist for D3 and D4. My W has been in here apartment since May 6. She had an empty room and half a daybed. When my Ds were over at her apartment on her days, D13 would sleep on the floor and D3 and D4 on the couch or in the bed with W.

After paying for her apartment in May and half for June, I decided her OM could setup the daybed since he was over there more than me. Anything that needed to be done, he could do. Needless to say, nothing has gotten done.

I want my W to experience what it is going to be like financially without me, but I can't have my Ds suffer. I told her I would pay for half of the bedroom furniture and help her pick it up and set it up.

Yesterday morning when I dropped off D3/D4, I brought the mattress for the daybed and set it up for her. Now D13 has her own bed.

Yesterday after work, I helped W pickup the furniture and set it up for D3/D4.

On the drive to/from/etc, I told her that I was doing this for my Ds. She made a comment about how she has been paying her way since May on her own. WTF? I reminded her that I paid for everything in May and half for June. How the F can she rewrite this history? We didn't fight about this, we actually joked about it and she finally realized I did pay a lot for her.

On the way home after dropping off the truck, I asked her if she had everything she needed for the Ds (sheets, etc). She said no. I told her to stop at the store so I could buy my Ds what they needed. She said she didn't want me to spend my trip money. I told her I would rather spend money on my Ds. My W likes to spend money and picked out sheets, pillows and a lamp. No problem for me as I actually have more money since my W moved out.

She asked if I wanted to stay for a bit and have a glass of wine. I told her no because I had to go. She gave me a long hug.

I know I am not supposed to support her decision financially, but I did this for my Ds as their sleeping arrangement was not ideal. Is that my responsibility? Am I still doing too much for her and trying to justify it as it is for my Ds?

Couple of points of interest from yesterday:
- She commented on my physical changes again and touched my chest. She said "wow, that's nice".
- She asked me to research places to go on my trip. I told her I was tired of giving her ideas so she can take someone else. (She always has to pick the date ideas and pay with OM). She told me she was going to go to the same place regardless. Then she added "with a girlfriend". I responded with "Just like you said you were going to XXXX with a girlfriend and the other time you said you were going to XXXX with a girlfriend...." She said no, this time I am really going to go with a girlfriend.
- She seems to ask a lot of questions about my trip out of town
- She thanked me for all the help as I was leaving. I joked "It's because I am a hero. Get yourself a hero and you know the rest." She laughed "And lose that zero".

I have seen a huge change in my W since this began. When this first started, W seemed to be more concerned with going out and being a part-time mom. Now, she is being a great mom again and not going out much at all. Mainly stays in and watches movies on "her" days.

We also joke around a lot more. It used to be very serious and tension filled, all business. Still no texts/calls, just when we meet for handoffs. My fear? She just wants to be friends....

I will be dark until Monday night as there won't be any handoffs of the Ds until then. I won't reach out to her.

Originally Posted By: LostIn407

I will be dark until Monday night as there won't be any handoffs of the Ds until then. I won't reach out to her.

I'm going to hold you to this. Stay strong. You're doing really well.

Echoing jks.

Keep it going lost.

:-)

Yeah, going dark didn't work.

She texted me and invited me to a weekly event downtown that she has been wanting to go to for a long time.

She asked "Do you want to go with me?".

I should have responded "You know I do, but you know why I can't"

Instead, I responded "You know I do".

We end up going and the place is packed. We head to a quiet lounge to have a couple of glasses of wine and a bite to eat. Really good conversation. Laughter. No R talk.

She brought up her concerns from the past (my work schedule, not wanting to do anything because of the kids or money). We talked about how my schedule is much better and how the kids are older now so we can do more things. Then she kissed me. A real kiss.

She then laughed about she was shanghai-ing me. It was a joke between us when she used to ask me to do something and it would turn into many hours. She said she wanted to go look at a puppy she saw online that was over an hour away. Entire time in the car was great.

At the end of the night when I walked her to her car, I had to ask. So I said "What is up with you and him?" She responded "Not so much". I told her when it becomes "Not at all", we can start working on this and she will get all of me. She said she would like that because she is liking what she gets of me now.

I have heard it many times on here: OM = No you.

However, I have also heard to do 180s. My 180s would be spending time with her, doing things (trips, outings, etc).

I think we are moving in the right direction. The detach and GAL did wonders. I just need to slow it down.

"I should have responded "You know I do, but you know why I can't"

I don't understand this? I have heard that when there is OM one should set boundaries. I don't think you have. To me it makes it look like you are ok with sharing your W. Am I wrong?

I would say that is my biggest issue.

It confuses and scares me the most.

When there is an OM, I have heard no contact. Set ultimatum. No cake eating, etc.

However, I don't think every situation is the same and the rules can apply to every situation.

I made the mistake in the beginning of pursuit, begging. I "dated" my W while she was with OM. That ended the first week of May.

Since that time, I have turned down numerous requests to do things with the W. I have said yes on a few, but mostly turn them down.

I have done the detach/GAL which has made my W come towards me. I do not think she is checking her position at this time. My W today and my W two months ago are two different people. I detached from the two-months-ago-W. W-today is the one I will hang out with.

Every situation is unique. The reasons for my situation center around the W feeling alone from me physically and emotionally. My 180 would be to not detach and spend time with the W. Going 100% dark would be "more of the same" that the W was getting out of the M.

What I do now with the W is a 180 from what we did the last 12 months. In the past, it was "what do you want to do?". It was boring dates. Today, I always have a plan. We do fun things and try new places.

I guess it comes down to what we think are the most important items for DR. Is it detach, GAL, 180, etc?

In my situation, I think GAL and 180 are what is benefiting me the most.

I have no idea what is 'right' or ' wrong'. But if its working towards R, isn't that positive?

I'm just asking. My H and I sent even in the same country right now, so I can't necessarily relate to the challenges of seeing him daily knowing he is with OW.

good luck, lost. but like you said, go slowly. you still have to say no sometimes and have "other plans" that you don't divulge. keep the mystery and the GAL going. i think it's working well for you.

Definitely going to keep it slow, which would be a 180 for me. I tend to pounce on things.

Gotta remind myself to keep it slow and have no expectations, no matter how good it feels.

Keeping up with the GAL as it makes me feel so much better about myself. I look back on the old me and feel shame. All I wanted to do was watch TV and mess around on the computer or XBox. Now, all I want to do is workout or be outdoors doing things.(180) I bought a new computer when this started and I hardly use it(180). I hardly watch TV anymore.(180) I can see where the W lost interest in me.

Here is my fear and I would appreciate advice:
W invites me to do something. I say no. And it isn't saying no as a game. I haven't worked out in a few days because I have been doing things with the W. I really want to workout and do some GAL for me.

The fear is that the W wants to do something with me. I decline so she calls OM. By saying no, I open the door for OM. It is almost like playing defense. If she is with me, she can't be with him.

Someone whip out a 2x4 and pound that thought out of my head

Don't give me any advice like "If she really wanted to be with you, she wouldn't call the OM". My W still doesn't know what she wants and we are not at the stage where we are piecing or rebuilding. We are still discovering each other again.

Originally Posted By: LostIn407

Here is my fear and I would appreciate advice:
W invites me to do something. I say no. And it isn't saying no as a game. I haven't worked out in a few days because I have been doing things with the W. I really want to workout and do some GAL for me.

The fear is that the W wants to do something with me. I decline so she calls OM. By saying no, I open the door for OM. It is almost like playing defense. If she is with me, she can't be with him.

Yep, I get that fear. It comes from a controlling place and is a sign that we are not fully detached. You can't live your life worrying that you not wanting to do anything with her will drive her to OM.

Do the GAL for you. Go to the gym.

If you tell your W no, she may or may not call OM. Either way, you can't control it. But you're not doing yourself any favors by assuming the worst.

If the ONLY reason she's not with OM is that you are occupying her every day, then you don't have much.

If you make choices out of fear, that's not good.

Be the best you there is and let the chips fall.

Update/Journal:

I thought if the OM was gone, everything would be fine. I detached/went dim/GAL just waiting it out. I believe OM is gone. SIL told me today at FIL birthday lunch that W and OM haven't done anything (dates) in over a week. Told me how the W is complaining about him. She told me that W feels "I am a problem solver, I care about her day when she talks about work and I always want to do things". W has to plan the events with OM. OM doesn't validate her. OM has no ambition.

Side note: I got a promotion at work that is $20,000 more a year. I now make 2x what I made one year ago and have nights and weekends off. If I had this job a year ago, would this have even happened with my M? I can't waste time dwelling on that and am just going to keep moving forward.

Then SIL said something that shocked me. She said that when this started she asked if W thought she and I would get back together. She said no. SIL says W is saying maybe now. I never thought W felt that way. I always believed it was just a matter of time. I think my GAL and 180s worked wonders.

Going dark didn't work at all for me this week. I ended up seeing and spending time with her every day. We even have plans to start taking dance lessons together.

Friday:
Went to an event for S13. Afterwards we decided to meet out for a couple of drinks. It went well, but not as well as Wednesday. Just good conversation and time together. Rebuilding a friendship/relationship? We went to a bar that had dancing and she wanted to dance with me. (I suck at dancing).

Saturday:
Went on my trip with a buddy (W cousin) but we decided to come back early and go out and watch the UFC fight. I sent W a text that I was going to watch it and she wanted to come.

Two of her other cousins were out that night and we decided to meet up with them (Me, W and W cousin). We had a great time. This time, she pulled me onto the dance floor many times and I did better.

Years ago when Dancing with the Stars first came out, we talked about taking lessons. It is something she has always wanted to do. I told her we should start taking lessons and she is very excited about that. We also made some plans for some out of town trips. In the past, she was adamant about separate beds, but now that isn't an issue. She used to always have to add "I am not having sex with you". Last night, she flirted with me about ML.

I don't want to Tommy Boy my sale here. I think we are making some progress but I gotta hold back. On the one hand, I think I have to make her miss me and come to me (but she does initiate a lot of our meet ups/dates). On the other hand, she has reminded me that it is my persistence that won her over the first time.

She brings up how it was when we first started dating a lot. Wasn't attracted to me (like now). How I won her over by just being me. She also has brought up how she did the wrong thing with the OM on multiple occasions. How she was wrong to do it, how it is a bad thing to do.

I am trying not to get too excited and trying not to have any expectations, but it is tough. Am I supposed to fan the flame or let the fire grow on its own?

For anyone doubting the benefits of GAL and 180, let me tell you that in my situation, it has been incredible. I am a happier person even when I suspect the W is with the OM. What the W does doesn't bother me like it used to.

I'm glad things are going so well for you. I would echo the same thing you said that you should try to pull back just a little. Mystery can be a powerful thing...

It's encouraging to read your thread and I hope so much that things keep progressing in a positive direction for you. Thanks for continuing to post.

I think a major issue with this is that we all have our goals and signs of what we think is progress. For me, I thought OM being gone would be the sign.

Now that OM is basically gone, I don't think that is the sign anymore. Yes, W and I are spending a lot of time together and having a lot of fun. She sees me as a fun person to be around again instead of the vision she had where she couldn't see herself with me because I let myself go, never wanted to do anything, etc.

What I need now is the emotional connection again, which is what I miss the most. During the courtship years ago up until the bomb, she was the first and last person I talked to everyday. I miss this. I want to get to a point where we tell each other good night.

I am going to have to pull back a bit and let the connection grow. I can see staying on this current path and probably ending back up together, but is that the best option? To be together just because we got used to being around each other again?

I want/need my W to have that moment when she realizes she wants me and not just being together again because of habit or I think I will be right back on this forum again.

Thanks everyone that has followed my sitch and offered advice and 2x4s.

Good post, we think alike...

One thing my friend is to make sure your both ready to work. It will not work if one of you is working and the other is just back.

Take your time.

And do not fall head over heals again until she falls head over heals as well.

This is where the 37 rules really come into play. Take it slow. Build off the positive. Discuss the negative to over come or toss away.

Do not back peddle on your growth at this time. Old habits will spring out for both of you. So squash them. Learn from them.

And do not give up your newly found self esteem. You have struggled greatly to get it.

I will say a prayer for you two tonight.

I was needing to hear this tonight, chatterbug. Thank you!

W came over for dinner last night. First time we have sat down with the Ds for a meal (not including events) since May 4.

After dinner D13 took D3 and D4 outside to play leaving W and I alone. More good conversation and joking. We talked about going out of town together next weekend and other trips we would like to do. We have another trip planned for August already. We have a trip planned for October. She seems happy to plan trips in the future together.

She talked more about her tonight. How since she turned 30 things have been different for her. Her sex drive is higher. She talked about how it is nice making her own money and not depending on someone else. She mentioned again how I should sleep with someone else. I always brush it off, but WTF. Is she saying this so she won't feel guilty for doing it to me or is she saying it because she wants me to move on?

She said that she was worried about me when this first happened, but she can see how I am in a much better place now. I am happier and more confident.

We talked about my promotion. I told her I was going to buy a car, something nice. She said she wanted to go with me when I did that. I told her I was going to go all out on a new bed, king size, high thread count sheets, etc. I flirted with her that I would give her the option to be my first in the new bed. She flirted back.

We finished two bottles of wine. She stayed until around 10 and helped me clean up despite me telling her I would take care of everything. Just hugs and kisses on the lips.

CURRENT FEARS
Friend-zone

I am approaching this like we are dating again for the first time. I have no expectations of what to receive physically. I have no timeline.

My buddy says I need to start treating it as such and start being a d!ck, no more Mr. Nice Guy. She already thinks we are best friends and I need to remind her at times that I want more.

Sticking to my plan of GAL. When I don't have the Ds, I do something for me. Slowing starting to text the W a little more, simple stuff asking how her day is going.

Uh, she really sees this as a game. Why in the world, if she wanted to be with you and only you would she want you to sleep with someone else? I think you're making yourself too available and open to her. Take it down a notch.

Can you go no contact for a while so she can at least start to miss you and realize what she's losing? Right now she has you right where she wants you and she KNOWS it.

I don't believe she sees this as a game. She has made no indication that we are working on R or she even wants to do it at this point. I have made no requests to work on R or talk about R. I don't know if I want to do it at this point.

Only thing said is that she is going through something and is enjoying the independence. She no longer asks me for anything and I don't offer.

There isn't jack I can do about that. I have to let her go on this journey. And she knows what the ramifications of her actions will be.

Two months ago, could I say I would be ok without my W? Not a chance. I was in bad shape.

Today, I know that I do not need her to be happy.

My W and I disconnected over the past few years. I couldn't see it until this happened, but now I see it clearly. I was more concerned with providing for the family than anything else. No vacations, wouldn't take off work, didn't do anything for myself, etc. I was a slave to providing.

I lost sight of who I was. Take my W and Ds out of the equation and I have zero memories of anything fun I did in the past 5 years. I remember turning down countless invitations from buddies until it got to the point I wasn't invited anymore because they knew I would say no.

I don't think this is about me and W getting back together right now. This is about me and making me happier and better. I plan events for me. If the W or a buddy wants to come, cool. If not, I am still going. I am no longer going to be dependent on others for my happiness.

No longer going to be dependent on other for my happiness.....

I love this!

Originally Posted By: LostIn407

I couldn't see it until this happened, but now I see it clearly. I was more concerned with providing for the family than anything else. No vacations, wouldn't take off work, didn't do anything for myself, etc. I was a slave to providing.

I lost sight of who I was.

I am no longer going to be dependent on others for my happiness.

wow, that was me too, 407. I thought I was being such a good W by providing such a secure future that I was blind to what I was missing in the present...

it feels good to find yourself again, doesn't it?

thank you for sharing that..

i would not sleep with her at this time.

It would only confuse you and set you back. Plus she needs to show proof that she does not have any STD's

I just have a feeling that deep down because she's still showing you interest that you are relying on her somewhat for happiness. Would you really be ok with her starting up a new relationship with a different man? And then having that interest in you slowly deteriorate because she wasn't taking anything seriously that was going on between you two anyway.

I know I could be way off because I don't know your W personally but I just wanted to get your thoughts on this.

I'm happy that you're finding things to do just for yourself and that you're feeling that things are fine with or without her. But I can't help but wonder if that's just because she's giving you so much positive attention right now. What if she was totally ignoring you and not acting interested at all??

You may be at a point where you don't really care about what she does but those are some things to think about because she can start to change her attitude at any given moment. The life of a WAS is very confusing and very up and down.

"I want/need my W to have that moment when she realizes she wants me and not just being together again because of habit or I think I will be right back on this forum again.

I said that a few posts ago. Then I realized I am putting an unreasonable condition on it. I am trying to control the terms of the R.

Someone posted on another thread and I apologize that I can't link it right now. It was one of the veteran posters I respect.

What they said was something like "If in a year from now you are back together and things are going well, does it matter how it started?"

I had a list of things I wanted to see from the W before I wanted to move forward with trying to build a R. Then I realized, my goal is Point A. My goal isn't making W conform to what I think she needs to do before trying to reach Point A.

Journal:
W is texting me "Good Morning :)" and texting me before going to bed at night. I believe our connection is growing and honestly, I have no expectations at this point. I am just enjoying the ride again. I believe in me again and know I can move on.

To JKS:

Once I found this site and DR, I began to work on me. I am in such a better place now. I won't say that it won't hurt if the W finds another OM, but I know I will be able to move on.

Before this site, this is how I felt:
- I am too old to find someone else to love me
- Who is going to get into a R with a 40yr with 3 Ds?
- I am unattractive
- I let myself go, who is going to want me?
- W is the only person I want to be with, we are soulmates

How do I feel now?
Age is just a number. I don't look my age and don't act like an old man.

I have a lot of offer someone. Who doesn't want someone that is a good father and provider for their children?

I am attractive. Inside and out.

I put time and effort into me and I look good. New clothes and new attitude. I feel like I am the cocky, confident me of my youth except I have strong parenting skills and a good job.

I am a person only a fool would leave. There is someone out there that will love me.

I like me.

Wow, that's a great list!

And as for being 40, you are young my friend and you are right, age is only number.

40 is young. You have realized that you don't NEED someone else for your happiness, but I'm sure you understand that people can ADD to your happiness. And if someone by their decision does not want to SHARE that with you, then they need to go.

See it's not always about what someone gives YOU. It's about what you two share.

I wish you the best, and somewhere out there are some supportive relationship partners who'd love somone like you and want to SHARE with you.

Glad to hear this... you are very much starting to sound like you're on the right track. I only say the things I do to make you think and be cautious.

I'm happy for you...

Journal/Lesson Learned

Live for you. Do not mind-read. Continue to make progress

On Saturday, W came over after work to pickup Ds. She stayed for a bit. I made her dinner and we shared some wine. We made plans to do some shopping on Sunday and goto breakfast.

She asked if I was going out that night and I responded yes. I didn't feel like going out because I really wanted to spend time with the W, but I wanted to make the W think I had plans. My plan was to stay in and watch movies with the W.

After she left, I decided I was going to text her an invite to hang out. I waited about an hour and sent her a funny text with an invite to hang out. Her response was "Sorry but I'll have to take a raincheck. You said you had plans..."

This threw me for a loop. I played it cool with the W and simply said "Ok. Raincheck". But inside, I was backsliding big time. Things were going so well, how can she make plans so quickly after leaving my house? I started to snoop. I ended up going out with friends with a bad attitude. I drove by W apartment and saw OM car.

I didn't have much fun that night and drove by W apartment on the way home. This time, I realized the car I thought was OM's was not his. It was the same car, but not his. WTF.

The next day we had a lot of fun spending the day with the Ds shopping and going to lunch. W told me that my text invitation was funny. I responded "Apparently not funny enough". W said that I said I had plans and couldn't ask her out at the last minute.

I ruined my night on Saturday because I didn't concentrate on me and was treating this like a game. I was more concerned with being cool/sly and then too concerned with what I thought W was doing, which was completely wrong. She watched a movie with the Ds and went to bed at 10pm. If I would have invited her to watch movies when she was picking up the Ds, she would have said yes.

I am in my sitch because W and I got too comfortable. The excitement and romance was gone. I am moving too fast and falling back into bad practices. I have to be the new me and not the old. I can't just assume W will do what I ask. W is hinting that our R is progressing.

From bomb to where I am now felt like an eternity. For W and I to return to a R is going to take a lot longer. It is going to be a slow process. I have to remind myself of this. Slow down. Don't rush.

I am confident that W and I will R or at least attempt it. It is going to be a new courtship. I have to break down all the walls she built up over the years. Seeing her future as bleak because we never went on trips or had any fun. Her feeling trapped because all she did was watch the Ds and was dependent on me for money. I have to rebuild my trust with the W. It is apparent that I don't fully trust her right now even though she isn't doing anything wrong. Slow and steady.

There is one thing that I am struggling with at this time. My W's only friend she hangs out with is the mother of OM. She has friends she will go out with, but this is the friend she will just chill with and have dinner and watch movies. OM still lives with his mother. While I semi-trust my W, I think her being around mother of OM puts her around OM. What kind of advice is this woman giving my W? W told me, and I heard from others, that her and OM are basically done. I backslid and snooped on Saturday and this is holding true.

This week we have plans to goto the beach on Wednesday for Independence day and this weekend is our trip. She is really excited about this trip, as am I.

Well for you two to work on the marriage. OM has to be completely out of the picture and that would include the mother.

But you two are no where near there to come up with decision. As it will just come across as controlling or an ultimatum.

Something to stow away for now.

You can only truly say it when she is remorseful and is working to get back your trust in her. As it will be more understood then.

I know. I don't see the OM as a threat alone. I am better than him. What the threat is right now is the mother of OM. She has my W's ear. Who knows what she is advising the W to do. And her spending time with the mother means she is spending time around OM.

I went crazy last night thinking she was with OM because she had dinner with the mother. Tonight W told me she was back at her apartment working out at the gym at 10pm, so she wasn't with him.

I am not in any position to say that I don't want her to talk to the mother. I just have to stay the course which is being me. The person my W fell in love with. I think I am doing good here.

We had our first dance lesson tonight and I think I did a great job. W agreed. Dancing is a 180 for me as I was always too scared to dance.

Must go back to detachment and not caring what she does when we are not together.

So very confused. I don't know if I am doing good or screwing up.

Monday
We did our dance class. Lots of fun. Driving her home, she mentions she needs to get home because she has plans. Whatever. I don't ask about her plans, but inside it is tearing me up.

Tuesday
She texts me if I want to come over that night to practice (our dance instructor said we needed to practice for at least 20 mins so it stays fresh). It is my night without the Ds. I ask her when she wants to do it because I have things I need to do. She texts back we don't have to practice, its no big deal. I tell her I can do it, just later in the night. She says that is fine.

I go to her place and we practice a bit. Our Ds think it is the funniest thing. I end up staying for a while. We watch a movie and then a tv show. I play with her hair during the show, something she used to ask me to do in the past. She says I can stay the night, but have to sleep on the couch. I decline that offer saying I have to get home to finish some things. We make plans for the 4th and I tell her I will be over in the morning.

Wednesday
It looks like rain so we scrap our plans to goto the beach with the Ds. I take the Ds and tell my W to enjoy the free time and we can meet up later for dinner and watch fireworks.

She calls me later to tell me she slept the entire time since I left. I invite her to a movie before dinner. She seems cold during the movie. Doesn't want to hold my hand, something we have been doing. Just seems 'off'.

She comes over after the movie and we have dinner/wine. We practice some more which she really seems to enjoy. Neighbors up and down the street are lighting fireworks so we decide to just sit in the driveway and watch while the kids play.

As the night goes on, she is more receptive to physical contact.

It seems like the more time we spend together, the closer we get. It always starts slow but usually ends up with flirting and some contact.

This weekend we are going away together. It will be the first time we are sharing a bed in over two months. I am not expecting/anticipating anything sexual. All of our meetups in the past month have been in short time periods, usually just a few hours. This is going to be a long time together.

I am scared I am going to screw up this weekend. Any advice to keep me from doing that? I can't take her on a trip and be distant, but I don't want to rush into being too close.

I think this trip will be really good for us. I don't want to get my hopes up because that can lead to bad things, but damn if my hopes aren't sky high right now.

IMO you guys are moving back into things too fast. She hasn't even told you whether OM is out of the picture and she still hangs out with his mom? I would not be comfortable with that situation at all. Spending time with your spouse with all of those questions looming in the background is putting yourself in a REALLY difficult situation. Especially going out of town together because now you don't really have a way to escape and take a time out for yourself if things get bad.

I don't know that I have advice, I just don't think I would have put myself in this situation in the first place until my spouse was showing me that they absolutely were ready to reconcile and start working on the M. You stated earlier that you didn't even know if you were wanting to work on the M. What did you mean by that? You seem like you really want her in your life? What is it that you really want?

"You stated earlier that you didn't even know if you were wanting to work on the M. What did you mean by that? You seem like you really want her in your life? What is it that you really want?"

Confuses me too. She will be in my life regardless for the next few decades as she is the mother of my Ds. I would at least like to be friends.

Regarding working on the M, I don't think I am at that point right now. I think it would lead to disaster at this point. There are too many things we haven't resolved. I am a trusting person, to a fault. I trusted my wife 110% and she cheated. She has apologized for it, but the trust isn't back. When we aren't together, my mind wanders into bad areas thinking about what she is doing.

Can I say 100% she isn't doing things I don't agree with? No. Therefore, I will not start working on or discussing the M. We are working on being truthful with each other right now. She isn't hiding things from me.

What I am doing now is probably pretty dangerous. I am spending time with the W. We are basically dating. We have lunch together. We go on dates. We spend a lot of time together. Are we physical? No. Maybe some hand holding, small kisses. The biggest gain has been the time we spend together and the depth of our conversations.

I will say that I think the relationship I have with my W right now is better than the last year. I think the last year was basically just going through the motions. We didn't spend time together. We didn't talk about anything other than the kids. We had no goals or plans for the future. We barely slept in the same bed. We stressed over finances. Just two ships passing in the night.

Today, we make plans together. We are putting the focus on our happiness and not just the kids. We actually talk about things. Money isn't an issue.

When this happened, I got the standard responses: ILYBNILWY, she was no longer attracted to me, etc. Maybe the W still feels this way. Maybe she doesn't. She is hesitant to move past our current displays of affection. Will this change? I hope. But if not, I know I can move on.

As far as filing for D, it isn't in my mind at all. I doubt my W is considering it. It has never really been a topic except for when I was at my lowest point.

When this first happened, I didn't know right from left. I don't have the direct path to my destination, but I am confident my ship is pointed in the right direction and I am in control of the boat again.

Do not let her back in when the OM is in the picture. You will waste time. She will pull away again. And you will spin and spin.

Give her the chance to earn your love and trust.

This weekend. Lead. But not in conversation or marriage talks. But in showing by actions how you have grown.

IF you do talk. Talk about your GAL activities.

And when she brings up new experiences.... Do not get puppy dog eyes or sad.

Just remember that she has shared some experiences without you the last while. Use it to push you through when you feel your guard dropping.

Thanks for posting. This is just difficult for me.

A couple of weeks ago, I asked "What's up with you and him?". She replied "Not so much". This was after we had a good night together. This was backed up by her sister who told me they were on the outs.

Today, we had lunch together. She came over after work and had dinner. I asked if she was eating and running. She asked why. I said I had a movie she has been wanting to watch. She replied "Maybe I already have movie plans". She said it in a joking way, but maybe she was serious. She said she has to pack for the trip, wash her hair, etc tonight.

I want to ask her what is going on with her and OM. But part of me says to not even worry about the OM. W and I do things together. I hear OM is just a bum that wants to sit around her apartment. He can't compete with me.

I want to ask, but am afraid of the answer. I see that my W wants to do things with me. Spend time with me. But I don't see her heart following. I feel like I am setting myself up to fall.

But maybe I need to fall to remind myself to back off.

He cannot compete with you. But he has. And he has won something that is very personal. You will never forget him ever. For he will be in your mind to the end of your days.

So do not bring up OM.

Again lead with change and actions.

Leave the words behind for now.

Once she has shown repeatedly through actions that she is working to be back with you. That is when you can start to judge her words.

GO READ THIS FORUM ON FALSE RECOVERY.

Guard yourself. Expect nothing.

I need help.

This trip has got me all torn up. Part of me doesn't want to go anymore. I think I set myself up for failure.

I just want it over right now, which is not good. I want to have the talk and get it over.

When we get back, I think I am going to have to just go dim and stop doing anything with the W. I am getting too attached and I don't think she has moved at all.

Back to day one for me. All my progress is lost.

Half of me still thinks the trip will be a good thing. But the other half thinks the end result will be nothing.

I know a lot of people gave me advice which I did not listen to. I got myself into this mess. I am asking how I can recover after this trip so I don't have to go back to the beginning.

I am just in a bad place today.

I have to say, do what feels right. Do you like where your R is headed? Do you want more commitment from your W?

If you do, then allowing this type of behavior from her is probably not going in the direction you want. There's nothing wrong with giving her a lot of space to figure out what she wants. It sounds like she doesn't know yet.

I know it's a hard balance for you because you feel like going out and doing things with your W is what's helping her want to come back. But I think she already has seen some of the big changes that you've made and realizes that things can be different.

Why not pull away completely and allow her to MISS you. She will soon find out that she's losing something and that's an amazing person who respects himself enough to not stand for being played...