Some background:
Married for 10yrs, D8
About two months ago my wife started telling she had to do a lot of travel for work and has not been home since. Every time she is suppose "something" always come ups that forces her to have to stay. Before I found this board I did what I was not suppose to do non stop calling and txt. She never answered the phone and when she did answer the txt it would be hours later and the excuse was that she was in meetings. About a month ago I sent her a txt that said "Seems you made your choice, hope your jobs gives you everything you need, Goodby"
She did not answer for a couple of days and I started mass txt begging her to call me. I guess she finally got sick of it and said "Your txt was disturbing and I'll take to you tmw". Next day no show no call, so I start mass toting, no reply. Last text I sent was "If you made the choice not to be will me and are just thinking of a way to tell me, just say it because it's not fair to me" After an hour I get a reply "You are not happy with me and you should find someone who deos make you happy"
Deep down I knew I was going to get this answer but it still hurt.
Since then I have got her to meet a couple of time to have dinner with me an D, and every time she is with me she always makes it seem that she does want to be with me and wants to make it work but she just needs some time. At the end if the night we hug, talk nice and I ask her to send me a txt just to say goodnight when she gets to her room, she says she will but never does. When I send a txt in the morning asking what happen to the txt, I get either phone died or I fell asleep.
Now what I about to say I know I should not do but I could not help myself. When she was last home she left her email and
Facebook accounts logged in. So everyday I look at them just to see because now I feel she is having a A. For a couple of weeks nothing shows, then one day I see a Facebook message she send to one friends how is a lawyer asking if she could recommend a divorce lawyer. I go numb and my hands start shaking. I can sleep and stay up the whole night. Fast forward to today and I see two emails from a vender for her company, one is his flight info and he ends it with, I love you and can wait to come to you. The other is a love poem.
I again go numb in total shock!! I go write to a lawyer to see what my options are. Tell him everything and seeing dollar signs he said I should start the paperwork right now!! The problem is I still love her want us to be a family and in a fog not knowing what to do. She came home today to give our D a book she promised her, the only way I could get her to do it was by guilting her into be sending a txt saying no matter what issues we have, our D NEEDS her mother it's been over a week since she has seen you. She said fine she all come over and take our D to dinner.
When she gets here, I'm in the garage because I did not want our D to hear us talking. I say I want to say Im sorry for all the txt and calling, it was selfish of me to only think of what I want and not listen to you when you say you needed time. I then Look her in the face and ask her, do you want to make this work or should we just get a divorce? She said she does want to try. I then I stare her in the face for 30secs and then ask, do you have feelings for someone else? She looks me the face and says....... No
I keep my cool while she is lying to my face and say " If you do have feeling, tell me and I can accept that, but don't i.e. if you are", she again says no. I just say OK
She then says if I want to go to dinner, I said sure, once there we have idle chet chat, I make sure never to say I love you or take about our R, When we leave she comes home to get clothes because she has to fly out to LA for the rest of the week for work.. sure!! I keep my cool and say nothing. Once she gets her clothes she calls me over and gives me a hug, I give her a real weak hug, she looks at me and says bye, I look at her and say bye. We walk to the door and I just close it behind her without saying another word.
So I sit here in my fog thinking I should just file and be done with it, but I still love her and for some reason want us to still be together. I just don't know what to do.
Hang in there, take a deep breath, and try to be calm. None of this needs to be decided today. The DB books say detach and get a life and stop pursuing/chasing her. Make her worry that you've moved on without her but be pleasant when you interact. She really must be in a bad way to be basically leaving her daughter. But don't feel bad about the texting and pleading, we've all done something very similar here. It gets better day by day. Just have no expectations and your mood swings about the sitch won't be so bad. Also, get a DB coach right away if you can. Mine has been great. Take care.
unbidden, thanks for the reply.
Cant get DB at moment because of $$ issues, but I have ordered both DR and DB and they should be here sometime next week.
Starting last week I have started to detach I don't call her and only txt if it's about our D. I have started my GAL going to the gym when I can and I have lost 25lbs. It's just that even at the gym, I still can't stop thinking of my sitch. I really need to work on my eating, I usually only eat one meal a day and sleep about 4hrs a day, but the worst thing I started smoking again.
Whats really killing me is that I want a family, but I also now think do I want a W that would be with another man.
It's hard.
Tonight she said she would go to MC, but leaves for the rest of the week and in my mind she is with the OM.
Welcome to the board
Yes you need to learn about detachment and going dark.
I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
Believe none of what she says and 50% of what she does.
I would not ask her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about her. Lets work on you!
Start reading, have your read DR or DB?
Read the 37 rules at the top of the forum
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Your W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power.
So I sent W a quick email asking if she new where our D new swimsuit i. She replied back at 6:52AM, so if she is in L.A. that means she sent it at 3:52AM her time. I don't believe it so of course my mind start running and thinking she is still here and with the OM. Think about as I'm getting my D ready and on the ride to work. But then just out of nowhere I have a thought, **** it!! I don't care where she is!! I'm going try and do what I've been reading in other threads and go dark, GAL and make sure my D has a great summer. Now I did say I'm going to try don't know if I will do it 100% or if I'll get in another funk by the afternoon, but what else can I do. Still love her, still don't know if I can deal with the EA/PA but I have to try and put that out of my mind for the moment.
Just thought of something from yesterday, that I see now as putting pressure on her. Just before we left for dinner, after our talk in the garage, I told her that if she does not come home at some point I'm going start thinking you don't live here anymore, she looked away from me and then said OK.
How bad was that?
So W just text to say she missed her flight last night and is leaving today (but did not say where she spent the night), should I reply or just stay dark? I'm leaning on staying dark.
I know I went dark and I've been good so far no txt, one email that concerned our D (believe me, if you all knew what I was doing the last two weeks, this is almost a 180), but was looking for a chance to see if W and me could get together for one meeting without out me bringing up the R.
So Im taking my D to the movies one night next week and was thinking of sending W an email telling her "Hey taking D to the movies you're welcome to join us if you can, promise no pressure" If she says yes, I'l say great meet us at the theater for the 8PM show. If she says no, I'll say OK, maybe next time.
So looking for thoughts:
1. Should I word the email that way or something else?
2. Bad idea, don't send the email, stay dark.
So today started to do things around the house, since the W left I really have let it get messy. Vacuumed the carpets, dusted, dishes and cut the grass. House looks better and cleared my mind some
Well not sure if my post are ever going to show up, but I'll keep posting because it helps me just to write these thoughts down.
So I could not help myself and sent the invitation to W, balls in her court. No matter what Im taking my D out with or without her. Her saying no I can deal with, what would really bother me is if she does not even reply. From now till the day I take my D out I'm going completely dark. The only thing I have to think about is if she does not reply do I send her a email saying (trying to be upbeat) "Hey guess you where swamped, no worries maybe next time" OR should I just stay dark and not send anything?
Ok... So I got a reply from W and it all it said was "I'd like that". So IF she does show up it will be my first chance to be around her and not bring up the R. I know it's going to be hard because the whole time I'm going to be thinking of her being with OM. Also going to make sure I choose the time and place and will also make sure I'm going to be the one who says when it's time to go.
Got DR today and can't put it down. Learning how what I wanted were way to big to think about right now, got to start taking baby step.
Sorry your posts are gettung moderated byt try to stick to 1 thread until 100 posts.
My first post got pushed way back to page seven before they showed on site. Doing a new one hoping folks can give me some idea.
So this morning I login to my bank acct to pay some bills and I see a charge the W for a local hotel. So this tells me she did not go to LA. While I had feels she never went, my issue is that she knows money is tight and still spent money to stay at hotel. I want to tell her that she knows money is tight and she could have stayed here in the guest room but with the meeting we have for Monday(see first thread) I thinking should I wait to then, tell her now or stay dark about the whole thing?
Stay DARK
Get your divorce preparation done asap... seperate bank account, photos of all property... document all time W is away and not parenting, screen shot those messages from lover.... document everything, play it cool like you don't know, then if she brings up divorce, you can lay down the law.
So I could no longer take it. I txt the W and told her I knew. She txt back what are you talking about? I said I would not discuss it over the phone, with 30mins she was here. I ask her do you have something to say to me? She got very defensive and told me to stop playing game. I told her this is not a game, I reminded her that the last time we talked I asked her not to lie if she had feelings for someone else and you did. She finally said yes she was with someone else. We talked for about an hour about all our old issues I told her I knew we both mad mistakes but I wanted to fix them. I ask her if she lover the OM, she got quiet so I asked again, and then she said YES. I told her that she had to choose our family or OM. She said she needed couple of days to think about it.
I said OK, seeing it was late and raining I could he she could stay in the guest room, and she said OK. I went to me room and sat in bed thinking about things
and then it hit me, why does she need a couple of days t think about family or OM?
Why I'm I given her this time and letting her sleep in our family house when she told me she loves OM? So I went to her room and told her I made up my mind. You either leave OM and commit to making our M work, or we can't begin to fix us. She told me she still needed a couple of days. I told her that it not an option, you either want to work on our M or you want to be with OM. She started with the ITLTL speak, and I told her we have not even tried to fix it and I did not want to be a plan B if the A with the OM did not work.
She said then fine, I choose him. I then said OK you have to go and she left. I don't think it was fair to ask me her H of 10yrs to give her a couple of days to choose her family or some guy she has been with for a month.
I don't know if this was the wakeup call she needed or the beginning of our D.
Either way, I'm ready to move on.
You're not ready to move on. What you need to do is stay still.
When Cadet says that you W is giving you the gift of time it means right now your M is in limbo so you need to use this time wisely. She didn't tell you about OM, she didn't tell you she wanted to end it, she said she'd go to MC and you have given her loads of ultimatums. I'm not sure on the whole letting her live there while she's in a R that began before you split. But I do think that any time you bring up OM or your M you are putting pressure and putting her in a position to make a choice.
Give her space, give her time, and give yourself space and time. She needs to miss you. And you need to sever ties as much as possible so she knows what it is she's really choosing. When things come up like D's swimsuit resolve to do whatever you can to solve the issue without involving her. GAL, keep working out improving the house and your appearence, let her notice your changes don't bring them up. Be polite and happy when you're around her but not like a H. Take and honest look at what you did in the R and how you'd like to be a better partner in the future whether to her or someone else.
We have all been there...for me it was sobbing on the side of the house when I told S I was going out for a smoke, when I had panic attacks, stalked his FB page, begged, pleaded, thought my life was over...it will get better. You will find a strength you didn't know you had. The aim to be a person that only a fool would leave. If you can better yourself it will cause a change in your R, because old patterns can't be repeated if both partners are the same. The knee-jerk reaction is to lash out in anger and resentment but you have to keep the road home paved smooth if you want at the very least to have a good co-parenting R with your W.
Keep posting you'll come off mod and if you continue to post people will come and reply.
Brit45- thanks for the reply.
I did send her one email after she left.
Don't know if your are sleeping or just don't want to pick up the phone but I'll send you this email because I want to put my thoughts down.
What I told you last night are my true feelings and I'm still conflicted, but when D7 got up this morning she gave me a hug and said good morning daddy, I saw again how important you and her are to me. While the affair has hurt me and I know that our marriage was in danger way before the affair, I still think that we could work it out if we committed ourselves to our marriage. I understand that the hurt of the past has caused you to not be sure that we can survive and feel that it would be more of the same, but it still hurts that you would not take the chance on us. I understand your pain and hope that at some point you could talk to me so we can begin the healing, but until you are sure that you are willing to be with me and only me this cannot happen. I will not ask that you give me an answer by a certain date, but I think it would be best that I don't contact you until you do.
After I sent this email, it bother me because it made me look a little soft but I do want if possible to save our family, but conflicted that she is willing to leave me and D for a co-worker she has been with for a month.
I want to go dark now, but we where suppose to take D7 out tmw for a treat, and Im wondering if I should txt her to let her know that I still want het to come and spend time with D. Also, D birthday is a couple of weeks away and I of course want the W to work with me to make sure the day is special for her.
Going forward I'm going dim, will only reach out if it's about D or house bills.
Unfortunately, this isn't the movies. When we press for the W to decide me and the family or the OM, it will usually be the OM.
I am not the posterboy for this situation because I am making mistakes, but I can tell you what I learned.
- This time to think isn't about the OM and whether she loves him more than you. There is a bunch of stuff going on inside her head. The OM is the easy escape because it is still in the honeymoon. She can be with the OM and not be judged, not have to make any decisions. She gets all the good, none of the bad.
Gift of time -- USE IT
- The OM is nothing. Do not waste time and energy thinking about it. Mine doesn't have a name. When I have spoken to the W about the OM, it has always been 'he'. I refuse to give him a name. The sooner you can put it out of your mind, the better.
- Whatever you think is happening, is probably worse. Accept it. When I get down and call my buddy, he just repeats to be "It isn't something we don't already know".
- Stop the chase. Give her the time. Make her miss you. This is where I am failing. W wants to do things with me still. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. I am getting much better at this. It is getting much easier to turn down her requests. When I turn them down, she asks me more. When I finally agree, she can go a week without needing to see me. I am being used, her Plan B.
- Your W is an alien right now. Accept it. Don't believe anything she says and half of what she does. This is actually true. I can guarantee you that she does think about you. But if you chase or push, you are making her decision for her. How do you like it when people decide your fate for you?
Be strong. It is a rollercoaster. You will have good days and horrible bad days. People are here to help. It might take time, but read and listen.
One last thing:
Do not make the mistake I made. Do not pay to set her up in an apartment. If she wants to leave, she does it on her own. Split finances immediately.
So I think I won't txt W about taking D out for her treat, but will reach out when it get's closer to D's Bday to see if she want to go shopping for gift.
My gift shopping for D3 birthday with the W didn't go well. W was a complete b!t@*.
However, some good did come out of it.
Expectations - I thought we would do some shopping and then grab something to eat and some drinks. Didn't happen, wasn't even brought up.
Lesson Learned: Just be. Don't put any expectations on what is going to happen or it will tear you up.
Stay Confident and Happy - Despite the sour mood of the W, I stayed happy and confident.
Lesson Learned: You are projecting strength. W didn't immediately change because of how I was, but I know she took notice. Her mood hasn't been sour around me lately and I refuse to stop being friendly and jovial when I am around her.
Be a good father - Shopping wasn't about me or the W, it was about the D. I kept my actions at that.
Lesson Learned: Women like a good father figure. In the end, you might not be a H, but you will always be the father of your D.
Don't chase, don't pursue - I never once brought up the OM, the R, the M or anything like that.
Lesson Learned: I didn't make my W feel uncomfortable. She is learning she can spend time with me without having to hear about her decision or actions at this time.
To be honest, after our last blow up, I doubt she will want to go to either of these.
So looks like me going dim is working, I forgot that I set tonights outing in our Google calendar and W said she is going, still not sure if she will show up, but we will see. Kinda of worried since this will be the first time we either see or talk since the blow up. I made a promise to myself that THERE WILL BE NO R TALK!! Need to do what you guys have been telling me detach and not think about the OM.
I think the detach part will be easy, not sure about the OM. What I mean is I don't care about the OM as a person , but the mental images I get of them together really bothers me.
The odd thing is, just before I looked at the calendar, I was looking up lawyers.
Will wish me luck, meeting is for 7PM.
Do not do any 'us' or R talk. Bite your tongue! If you have to step away, do it.
The first time my W did anything after our talk, it was all I could do to hold it back. I didn't bring any of it up and we had a good day just talking like friends.
By not bringing that stuff up, she will be more comfortable around you because she won't feel any pressure.
It is a rollercoaster. As happy as you may feel after the outing, it will probably get worse as you will have expectations. Expectations = bad.
The mental images go away. Trust me.
but will reach out when it get's closer to D's Bday to see if she want to go shopping for gift.
So this already happened? I would have advised you NOT to do it!
Also I thought things were getting better with me and H and then he told me he was thinking of moving in with her. I freaked out, he pulled back because he felt like his friendship was leading me on. (I think)
Anyway, what Lost is saying is true if you make her choose it will never be you. People don't want to be told to make a choice. Think of yourself as a salesman selling a product do you tell a person to buy your TV or get out your store? or do you try to make them feel comfortable, give them SPACE to look around, answer any questions but DON'T initate talks about the product AND LET THEM DECIDE.
People don't like to be sold too, they like to feel like they made a choice. Everytime you want to text, email, go somewhere with her think of a pushy salesman.
All the time you spend thinking about her, her R, and your feelings for her you're taking away from YOU. Do something for yourself everyday, be a good friend to yourself, and it will change everything in your life.
I don't want to sound harsh but your email sounds really demanding. No love story ever started with CHOOSE ME or else. I know you feel vindicated in the fact that you are her H and the two of you have children together but that's not how she sees it...and since you both know where you stand and your decision on the M, it's how she sees it that counts.
And as my IC said to me do you really want someone you had to chase and force to be with you? no I don't think you do. you want someone who can't spend another second without you.
Thank for the replies, believe me I have zero expectations.
The email for the gift shopping has not been sent, Bday is in July. I have no problem with the W not being involved, just want to make sure that D has a good day, but it brings up another point, what if she ask me to go shopping, should I just say no that I already took care of it?
Guess the email was harsh, have to learn to wait sometime before reacting after a blowup, I sent that email as soon as I woke up the day after the blowup.
So just go a text from W saying weather is bad(It has been raining off an on most of the day) and if we could postpone for tmw? I plan tis for D, so not sure W should be the one who says date should be changed. We where planing on taking her for some ice cream from a place that has benches outside. Going to wait to reply,and say " Weather seems to be letting up, if it does not, thinking I take her to the other ice cream store that is inside.
Why not just take D yourself without W, regardless of the weather?
Oh I am, if the weather is bad I'm taking her to the other ice cream store. I'm not going to postpone.
So sent her the txt, and she replied "Let's do it tmw"
Going to wait and reply "Sorry can't tmw, have plans"
what if she ask me to go shopping, should I just say no that I already took care of it?
yes. Don't wait for her suggest shopping, Don't wait hoping she'll suggest. don't worry that if you shop without her and then she wants to shop with you, you'll have made a mistake.
You were planning to take you D somewhere. W decided to come along, then decided to change the day because of the weather?
Is D with you right now? If so take her anyway. Just text W and say that a little rain can't slow you down or ice cream is needed on a day like today. DON'T say you're welcome to come or whatever.
You will slowly detach and get to a point where you don't factor in W's opinions, wishes, or what you think she might want to do into your decisions. The sooner you get to this point the better. Because first you will feel so much better about yourself. And second she will notice.
In the meantime you have to step back even if it's the last thing you want to do. If you feel like sending an email or text WAIT. send nothing for 24 hours. Post it here sleep on it and see how you feel later. It will save you weeks of heartache by not doing something rash.
I will not ask that you give me an answer by a certain date, but I think it would be best that I don't contact you until you do.
After I sent this email, it bother me because it made me look a little soft but I do want if possible to save our family, but conflicted that she is willing to leave me and D for a co-worker she has been with for a month.
I want to go dark now, but we where suppose to take D7 out tmw for a treat, and Im wondering if I should txt her to let her know that I still want het to come and spend time with D.
So this is new...
That email I sent, was to her work email and she just txt me to say that her boss reads all her email and that she is in a little bit of trouble since he now knows of the A (her company is very strict about moral issues). I did not mention in the email that the A was with a co-worker, so I guess she won't get fired. I'm conflicted, while I don't want to get in trouble, for some reason I'm a little glad that she now has to face up to what is going on. Since this has started she has been living the carefree life of a single person going out all night with OM, while I stayed home raising D as a single dad. Don't get me wrong I've loved every minute of it, but it is a lot of work working full time and raising a child by yourself.
oops I meant that as a quote:
You say in that post best if I don't contact you
then you say wonder if I should text her
then you say dim is working (less than 24 hours later) because she wants to have ice cream
then she says weather's bad can we put this off.
CONSISTENCY is key! They won't believe your words only your actions.
Trust me we all think that the communication we have is needed in some way and not breaking the 37 rules. It is. There isn't a million clauses. Just take D. I'm not convinced she wants to go. Just that she saw it on the calendar and then came up with an excuse. That's mind reading I know. But you have to separate yourself and start living your life independently
she is in a little bit of trouble since he now knows of the A (her company is very strict about moral issues)
that's just weird.
Since this has started she has been living the carefree life of a single person going out all night with OM,
you don't know how she's been living, what she's been feeling, you're projecting that her life is carefree. I'm positive that she is carrying a lot of guilt and is very very conflicted.
Don't reply! Wait...and see how you feel a few hours from now.
Brit45- Agreed, I'm still trying to make sure that D does not start feeling that her mom does not care about her, so every text I've sent has only been about D. But you are right I have to cut it out. Just told her I can't do tmw, me and D are going tonight.
I'm still trying to make sure that D does not start feeling that her mom does not care about her,
This is really really hard, but ultimately that is W's job not yours.
now leave the house NOW. Turn off your phone if you need to, but take action don't wait for W's response.
Detach from w as much as possible. Take care of yourself and your daughter. You wife is in a fog now -- you can't worry what she says or does -- and most importantly you can't worry about what she is thinking as she is the only one that knows this. Follow the advice from the "experts" on this forum. Become a better human and dad. Make these changes for YOU. Making these changes for you will make you a better person -- for yourself --- no matter how things turn up with your wife.
Yes ma'am!!
hahahaha sorry but I just felt like she is making you think and rethink and second guess yourself. I hope you really enjoy your evening with D!
Dscl,
You may not feel like it, but you are actually in a very powerful position right now and totally in control of your own destiny.
We talked for about an hour about all our old issues I told her I knew we both mad mistakes but I wanted to fix them. I ask her if she lover the OM, she got quiet so I asked again, and then she said YES. I told her that she had to choose our family or OM. She said she needed couple of days to think about it.
Your correct response is not "OK." That is you responding out of fear of losing her. You have already lost her. Saying "OK" to her waywardness will not regain her.
Don't let yourself, your M and your kids be disrespected this way. Are you OK with your W sleeping with another man? Are you OK with an interloper in your M? Are you ok with your W escaping your family to be with OM? I imagine all of these violate core boundaries of how you want to be treated?
seeing it was late and raining I [said] she could stay in the guest room, and she said OK.
So, let me get this straight. Your W admits she is screwing another man. She admits she has let herself fall in love with another man. She tells you she has to think about whether or not she is going to leave you, not sure if you, your M, or your family is worth it.
And you invite her to stay for the night.
I went to me room and sat in bed thinking about things
and then it hit me, why does she need a couple of days t think about family or OM?
Why I'm I given her this time and letting her sleep in our family house when she told me she loves OM? So I went to her room and told her I made up my mind.
There you go!
You either leave OM and commit to making our M work, or we can't begin to fix us. She told me she still needed a couple of days. I told her that it not an option, you either want to work on our M or you want to be with OM. She started with the ITLTL speak, and I told her we have not even tried to fix it and I did not want to be a plan B if the A with the OM did not work.
Preach on!
She said then fine, I choose him. I then said OK you have to go and she left. I don't think it was fair to ask me her H of 10yrs to give her a couple of days to choose her family or some guy she has been with for a month.
You don't deserve to be treated like that. Set and hold that boundary of how you expect to be treated in a marital relationship. Her choice to abide by it or not.
NOW, while you are holding that boundary, let's get to work on YOU!
What was your part in the breakdown of the M?
What can you change/better about yourself?
How can you start reinventing and improving yourself?
What can you do to get a life (GAL?)
Have you read DR or DB yet?
Wait, what happened between,
"No one cheats on dscl and his family. You need to leave the house"
to
"Let's go shopping for D3 together?" ?????????????
HOLD THE LINE!
OK, just got back, got D out of daycare early because of the rain. Me and D had a great time! One godo thing that has come out of all this is the time I spend with her, it like we are a little team!
Bustorama: Believe me I know, I read the post and I cringe. The only reason I even said it was because I thought it would be a nice surprise for D to see her mom when she woke up. All the talk with M and W have has only been about D. Really was worry that D would start feeling bad that her mom was not here, but as Brit45 pointed out, that W's job not mine.
So I got three Text for W while we where out.
TXT#1
OK- have to meet with my boss and his boss to apparently discuss my "personal issues" (Yes, she put it in quotes)
TXT#2
If you can't do ice cream tmw can you do Wed?
Have not answered, but I when I do it's going to be no.
TXT#3
I dropped my iPhone and the screen shattered.
Have not answered and will not, not my problem
TXT#4
Picked up some books for D
Have not answered and will not.
Don't reply! Wait...and see how you feel a few hours from now.
Not going to reply, not my issue.
So I got three Text for W while we where out.
[texts deleted]
Did you let your wife know that you wouldn't be responding to her texts while she was engaging in her "personal issues."
Have you thought yet about what sorts of things WOULD merit in responding to in your mind? Where exactly is your boundary of communication with her now? Think about it a bit so you are prepared as she tests it. Because she will. Throwing volleys of rocks over your wall here and there. Dashing back and forth across your front line. To see if you are still there.
I want to take this back to what I said before, though, dscl
How did you guys get here?
What is your role in the breakdown of your M? What mistakes have you made?
How would you like to better yourself?
How could you GAL?
Have you read DR/DB yet?
So I got three Text for W while we where out.
[texts deleted]
Did you let your wife know that you wouldn't be responding to her texts while she was engaging in her "personal issues."
**No.
Have you thought yet about what sorts of things WOULD merit in responding to in your mind? Where exactly is your boundary of communication with her now? Think about it a bit so you are prepared as she tests it. Because she will. Throwing volleys of rocks over your wall here and there. Dashing back and forth across your front line. To see if you are still there.
**To be honest I have not, but looking at my past, I feel I've been there way to often for her. Now if it's something that D related and it NEEDS to be answer, then I will.
I want to take this back to what I said before, though, dscl
How did you guys get here?
**From my side I will have to admit I neglected her. I look back now and I see years of her trying to engage me in her daily life and I did not. I own that part of the issue,but I refuse when she tries to make me feel that this gave her the OK to go to OM.
What is your role in the breakdown of your M? What mistakes have you made?
See above
How would you like to better yourself?
**I do have an issue that I get annoyed very quirky and I have started working on that. Can't say that I've fixed it but I have taken baby step.
How could you GAL?
**This one is a little hard at the moment, full time work full time dad. But I have started going to the gym and I'm going to join workshops in my office.
Have you read DR/DB yet?
**Reading DR now.
**Venting** (And better here than shooting off an email to the W)
I'm sitting here thinking, why am I allowing myself to be treated this way, and I don't mean her having power of my feelings or being a doormat or a plan B, I mean why I'm I trying to save the M while she's with OM? Yes, I admit that I might have not been the best husband in the world but I also was not the worst. I had many opportunities over the years to cheat and never did. Can I honestly say that if the W leaves the OM and comes back to me that I would want her back?
I'm just hit with the fact the she broke our trust and if I'm honest with myself, I'm not sure if it will ever comeback. Would I constantly have to live thinking if she comes home late that she is with another OM? Will I have to be THAT guy who needs to always check her email,Facebook and phones? Right or wrong the spanish machismo in me is telling me that she was with another man and that should be the end of it. I'm I going thru this because I want what I had in the past and it's blinding me to the facts of the here and now? Could I ever take back a woman that has done this to our family? Do I want a W that can so easily abandoned her only child to be with a man that she has known for such short amount of time? I don't know, maybe I really need to get IC.
The thought of calling my L is now more in my mind than the thoughts of R. Have I not called because I want to save the R or because I don't have the funds needed to get them started?
Very early in this process both W and I said that if either of us decided that we could not make it work that we would wait to after our Ds birthday before doing anything. Well Ds birthday is now less than 4wks away and as of now not much has changed, can another 4wks make that much of a diffrence? I know this is complete mindreading, but is that what she is doing, keeping me going till after the Bday to then file?
Of course these are all rhetorical questions since only I can answered them for myself.
OK, I feel better now.
Wait, what happened between,
"No one cheats on dscl and his family. You need to leave the house"
to
"Let's go shopping for D3 together?" ?????????????
HOLD THE LINE!
Agree consistency!
**Venting** (And better here than shooting off an email to the W)
good job!
Could I ever take back a woman that has done this to our family? Do I want a W that can so easily abandoned her only child to be with a man that she has known for such short amount of time? I don't know, maybe I really need to get IC.
even those of us (like myself) who didn't have indfelidity during the M have these thoughts. We all wonder if they came back today do we even want them back? Who's to say it wouldn't work?
Only you can answer those questions like you said.
This is why Cadet says Gift of Time. It's all very confusing you love someone who hurt you. You want your family unit back but at what cost. Take this time to just concentrate on you. You don't have to worry if you would trust her in the future, because that option isn't really on the table right now. You can work on forgiving her, not because she "deserves it" but because you don't want to be someone who carries around anger and resentment. If you're a Christian think do we really deserve forgiveness for the things we do or does God give it willingly? If you're not, think about when you were a little kid. Your parents didn't sit around deciding whether or not to forgive you for things you did. They knew you didn't know better.
For better or worse she will always be you D's mom. So maybe you can find a way to forgive her based on that. Just work on you, healing the hurt from being betrayed, the pain at your M ending, concentrate on getting a handle on all the changes like you said you're suddenly a single parent. Just work on that.
And give yourself a break. I felt bad because I wasn't back on my feet feeling amazing within a month or something. But give yourself time. You will find that there is so much to do with you that you don't even need to worry about her...not yet!
Brit,
I know those are the things I need to do, and one day I might get there. I think yesterday was a turning point for me. Before I was worry about what I did because I was concern how she would take it and did not what to get her upset. Then like a bolt, I thought, worry about upsetting her, what the ****, she is cheating on me!! clearly she is not worried about my feelings. So at this point I'm ready to let it be and just work on me. The only sticking point is my concern with my Ds feelings.
For example W sent me the txt about taking D out today or tmw. I have no interest in going, but should I take away an opportunity to have D see her mother?
So my choices are:
1. Tell W we can't go
2. Go and take it as a opportunity to work on my as if
3. Let her take D and I stay behind
I think yesterday was a turning point for me. Before I was worry about what I did because I was concern how she would take it and did not what to get her upset. Then like a bolt, I thought, worry about upsetting her, what the ****,
YAY good for you!!!!! It is a turning point!
Aside from her cheating you though you have to make decisions based on how YOU feel not on how she'll feel about the decision. That will come will come with detachment. Has anyone suggested CoDependancy no more. It was a real eye opener about my thought patterns.
Unless you have reason to believe that D would be in danger, then yes, let her go with W.
Have you two set up a schedule?
I think yesterday was a turning point for me. Before I was worry about what I did because I was concern how she would take it and did not what to get her upset. Then like a bolt, I thought, worry about upsetting her, what the ****,
YAY good for you!!!!! It is a turning point!
Aside from her cheating you though you have to make decisions based on how YOU feel not on how she'll feel about the decision. That will come will come with detachment. Has anyone suggested CoDependancy no more. It was a real eye opener about my thought patterns.
Unless you have reason to believe that D would be in danger, then yes, let her go with W.
Have you two set up a schedule?
No we have not setup a schedule, I think we need to do that now.
As far as my feelings, right now I'm leaning towards just moving on with my life, that might change in the future but right now, I just don't see wanting her to be in my life as a partner.
So today was a good day. Only sent the W one txt and it was to tell her that I would not be able to go to dinner, but that should not stop her and D from going, asked her to let me know what time she would be here and I'll make sure that D was ready. She txt back, OK be there around 6:30. When she got here, I was outside taking the trash to the curb, I was ready just to say hi and walk back into the house but she walked up to me and gave me a big hug, I just said hi and that D was ready. They got in the car and left for dinner. About two hours later, they come home, I'm doing some work on the computer D runs unto to me and gives me a hug, W says hi I say hey. On her own she walks to the laundry room and starts emptying the cat's litter box,
I tell her that she did not need to do it that I would take care of it, she says it's OK, I'll do it, I thank her and walk away. After she is done she joins me in the living room and starts a little chit chat, I listen, don't say much just nod my head and ask a question here and there. Then I say, I'm thinking of driving D to NYC at the end of the summer to visit family, she says oh, that would be nice. I ask her are you talking anytime off this summer? she says I think so, I reply with what are you going to do? She says not sure, and I just end it with OK. She had the look of she thought I was going to ask her to come with us, in my mind I think,sorry this is a family trip and at the moment you are not part of it.
Some more idle chit chat, I get up start cleaning up a little (the universal sign to a guest that it's time to go). She well I guess I should be going, I say Ok, but before she leaves she says I would like to take D out tmw night, do you think you could go? I tell her not sure got to see how much work I finish off tonight, she says OK bye, I say the same while sitting on the sofa and she lets herself out.
Now before yesterday, I would have been so excited thinking she's coming around!! this is almost over!!! but not today. I see thru it now, she is always extra nice when she comes over, but always goes back to the OM and then ignores me for the rest of the week as I think that this is a glimmer and I start reaching out with txt that she never answers. Not gonna happen now.
No more texting or calling from my end, if she does reach out tmw to see if I would go out, I will wait to end of day before replying that I can't go, but if she follows her old MO, I'm sure I won't her from her till next week and I'm find with that!
Feels good not to be on pins and needles thinking and over thinking how the night went and if I made any inroads on the R (notice I did not mention the R the whole night).
Baby steps.
So a very strange day...
So I woke up this morning and go to D's bedroom to wake her for daycare and who do I see in the hall... the W! Seems she left herself into the house after D and I went to sleep. I ask her what are you doing here? She said she wanted to be here when D woke up, in shock I just walk away and start getting D ready to go. While I'm doing this, W goes and takes a shower, when she comes out I ask do you want to discuss us? (I know bad move bringing up the R, but I think it had to be asked). She shakes her head no, I start think, this is not good, was about to tell her, I understand your feelings not wanting to discuss our issues, but I think it would be best that you do not stay in the house while you are with OM, just as I was about to begin, D walks into the bedroom, so I stay quiet.
By now it's time to leave, so I ask the W if she will be here tonight, she said she was not sure. So I say bye and so does she and me and D leave.
All day at work of course I think about what happen, I think the moment I get home and if the W is there, I will tell her what I was going to say in the morning, I can't lie, I had doubts if I should say something, was this sign that she was coming around? But by the time I left the office I decided I had to tell her she could not stay in the house. When I get home I noticed that she left her bag and some stuff on the bathroom sink so I took that to mean she would be back.
So here it is 10:20 at night and the W has not come back or got in contact with me.
It does not bother me that she is not here, but I was looking forward to setting up the boundary on how she would respect our home.
So it goes.
Why the hesitation? If W is seeing OM and you are not ok with that behavior, and she has been living outside the home, it seems perfectly logical to me for you to enforce the boundary by having her stay away.
So again, why the hesitation?
No hesitation, she just never showed up for me to ell her.
Hi DSCL,
Thank you very much for your input on my thread. Your points seem right on. It's amazing how you point out the obvious points but sometimes I get so caught up in things it's nice to hear someone mention the black and white. I am not very good at using this site yet so if you reply, please do so on my thread if you dont mind. Thanks again!
Roughenough
So to follow up on my venting from a couple of days ago.
I think I'm at the point that I accept we will not be together. In the last two months I said I was sorry for the things I did wrong in our M and she has not accepted any of the issues that she caused. Not only that, but she continues to try and blame me for her A, and I'm done listening to it. I know that the things I did like, not give her more of my time, or show her how much I loved her where wrong, but none of those gave her the right to have an A. If she felt that I did not give her what she needed and that I was a bad H, then she should had just told me she wanted a D, then we could have decided to either work on it with MC or just said OK to the D. The A is just a complete break of trust and to make it worst, to continue an A after I know about it is just a disrespect that I find hard to live with.
While I'm said that my M is ending, at the end of the day I must be able to live with myself and be a good father to my D.
Thanks to everyone who has given me advice.
okay.....she is way confused. And she needs to sort that out herself. Maybe some old timers/vets can help you out here.
What I did learn is that A's are symptoms of the problem. it wasn't that you were a bad H, you both contributed to the problems and because she was equipped to handle that she had an A. I'm not saying you have to forgive her. But at this point you still care, and you would still like a R if she sorts out her confusion and is willing to work on it. Those are fair objectives.
I would say but this is just my opinion: Tell her that you care about her deeply and would like nothing more than to work on the relationship. But that right now, she is choosing otherwise. Maybe at some point you can work on things but until then, she can not drop in and out of your house as she chooses, she's got a new place to live. That she needs to respect your house. That you don't want to harm her r with d. That it's best that you two set up a schedule so that she has time with D.
So to follow up on my venting from a couple of days ago.
is the venting helping you OR keeping you stuck in your anger?
it's an important issue to address honestly. A lot of us get stuck...don't stay that way. Letting go of your pain is a step that is mandatory to your healing.
It does not matter if you don't think she 'deserves" forgiveness b/c it's not for her benefit, it's for yours...see,
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is
like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes...
your anger hurts YOU the most, your marriage next and her last, if at all.
In all likelihood it only confirms her choice to leave...anger isn't attractive and it helps fuel her choices, affirms & justifies them, and reminds her that she's glad to be gone.
so again, figure out how much the venting is "helping".
I think I'm at the point that I accept we will not be together. In the last two months I said I was sorry for the things I did wrong in our M and she has not accepted any of the issues that she caused.
This^^^ sounds a lot like score keeping. Score cards hurt marriages.
You pretended to make amends and be changing into a new more "aware" or loving h, but in reality you expected her to respond quickly AND in kind.
So your "amends" were given with expectations - and that more or less defeats the purpose of making them.
IF and when YOU are truly regretful for causing her pain, just express THAT and feel your regret so you don't repeat that mistake.
You have no control over her reaction. Just aim for feeling at peace with you owning your part and that's all. Period.
Not only that, but she continues to try and blame me for her A, and I'm done listening to it.
of course she blames you for pushing her into the arms of OM. How else would she feel justified in having an affair?
Did you want her to feel deep shame AND show it to you? Is that healthy or realistic?
Don't misunderstand me. I'm simply explaining to you that your w did not have the affair with the idea that she was being selfish or taking something she did not deserve.
While some men are serial cheaters, adultery is different for most wives. Almost all w's who have affairs have felt neglected, betrayed or even abused, long before the affair.
So IOW, they rationalize it...they feel entitled to the affair and there is almost always a certain amount of truth to their perception. Ponder that.
Arguing with her about the affair only makes her defend it more. And it makes her believe you are the same man as you were before, which is not what you want - b/c she left that man...
NOTE-- IF she does not believe marriage to you can be better or different than before - then it really is over.
But you would need to show her consistent change in YOU, and over time, in order for her to believe things could be better/different.
How have you done that? Consistently? Over how much time? B/C you sound like a man who wants to punish her 0r see shame from her, and if she isn't suffering enough for you, then you would rather end the marriage.
Self respect matters a lot - but don't confuse it with pride/ego. Don't confuse boundaries with punitive pettiness or vindictiveness either.
It's easy to confuse them b/c WE AE IN PAIN SO WE RATIONALIZE SHOWING OUR ANGER and call it something else...
Regardless of what you believe "really" happened, what matters is HER perception. That is hard to grasp but it's true.
I know that the things I did like, not give her more of my time, or show her how much I loved her where wrong,
did you try to work on things in the marriage? I mean BEFORE the affair? Your wording seems like you are minimizing the contribution you made to the affair.
What would SHE say you did or did not do?
but none of those gave her the right to have an A. If she felt that I did not give her what she needed and that I was a bad H,
more^^^ useless scorekeeping about how WRONG she is...okay we get it, but that blame game does not help you at all!!
Our 3 mc's told my h he was being "selfish" and "acting single" so I felt vindicated...but powerless. What was I supposed to DO with that insight?
So what if I was "right"? It changed nothing in my h's eyes or what he was doing.
I needed to change MY view and MY reactions...that changed the dynamic...
also, don't freak out, but to your w, well she may not have realized what she was missing til she had it with OM.
then she should had just told me she wanted a D, then we could have decided to either work on it with MC or just said OK to the D. The A is just a complete break of trust and to make it worst, to continue an A after I know about it is just a disrespect that I find hard to live with.
well, this ^^^is just more of the blame game from you and counting her sins over.
Seriously, do you see how you are glossing over your part in this big time?
As for her continuing the affair after you found out, here is some news for you. Sometimes the cheater feels that since the affair is out in the open, it's NOT dishonest or wrong. (That's one more reason I urge caution in exposing the affair if you can fix things without doing that-b/c you want the hiding more than you want an open affair)
AND second,
I'm NOT Defending her choices, but tell me why
she would end the affair if she is ending the m instead? Isn't that the choice she is making? How did you show her that you could get past this (and not throw it in her face every time you two fight or hold it over her head the rest of her life?
See, there are times that a WAW/WAH might want to come home but if she feels that she'll never be forgiven, then why bother trying? Sometimes it's way easier to blame the exh she chose to leave rather than try saving the damaged marriage...
While I'm said that my M is ending, at the end of the day I must be able to live with myself and be a good father to my D.
Thanks to everyone who has given me advice.
IF there is a chance at her waking up and wanting back into the marriage it will be ONLY b/c
*she believes marriage to you can be better/different than before.
* You are worth it b/c you are a good father and WILL BE a loving h to her
* you won't hold the affair over her head forever. You will let it go.
IMO, The worst choice in this scenario is probably not divorce. it's staying married AND staying miserable, showing resentment to your d the rest of her life...
So if you really want to be married, then make some changes
and know that if you
become a man only a fool would leave, and if she sees the loving interaction of her daughter with her father- she'll be moved. THEN She'd second guess her choice...she'd have to.
Get your divorce preparation done asap... seperate bank account, photos of all property... document all time W is away and not parenting, screen shot those messages from lover.... document everything, play it cool like you don't know, then if she brings up divorce, you can lay down the law.
at the risk of offending, I must say I take issue w/ advice like this^^^.
it's all about ending the marriage, reeks of punishing and shaming her,
letting your pride, anger and ego dictate. And what is the rush?
The affair is NEW so she's in a heavy fog...and
This guy is here trying to save his marriage
and he hasn't even been here ONE MONTH! Effectively saying to give her an ultimatum too...did you read the DB books Peringo?
They urge
against ultimatums and this man is nowhere near ready to just end it all, despite his words of today. He's brand new and raw to all this, still reeling. No way is a decision to divorce NOW, a sound one.
Peringo, How did your approach work for your situation?
My other concern in this man's situation is his daughter. I'd be the best damn dad I could be. I'd be there for my d like never before b/c right now the mother is in la la land. she may notice his improved fatherly behavior and that will help but it's mainly for the daughter now.
If the dad checks out emotionally too, b/c of his pain and anger, she loses both parents.
Why not have the best summer of her life with her dad, let her mom miss out on that? Plan a trip with ONLY your d. That will get your w's attention. Do NOT invite her. Act as if you assume she's working and you and your d take a FUN trip you both plan together.
(I took my kids to italy when I realized my h would miss our 25th anniversary...boy did that bother him. I didn't know it then, but he told me later how much it bugged him knowing we were having a blast without him. Guess it gave him something to miss.
From MY perspective, what mattered is that I showed my kids that we could still have fun with or without h around, we would be alright no matter what-
and we went to a place none of us had been before and we all LOVED...without any reminders of h not being around. That also helped me not obsess...very helpful to all of us.
If all he does is show anger and pain and misery (aside from how UNattractive that will be to the wife who will NOT miss that stuff at all)
it also stinks for their daughter. GAL and take a trip even if it's just a weekend at the beach or mountain or some new area. Show your d a good time and that her life and family may change, but it will NOT END.
IF divorce talk comes up with your d, make sure you reassure her you will be there for her no matter what(sounds like full time). When my kids asked where their dad was and whether he loved them (since he was gone) I told them my truth--which I firmly believed...
"your dad is confused right now but I KNOW he loves you, & he'd kill or die for you" and I believe that to have been true. I also think he was selfish and dishonest but did THEY NEED to know that? No...plus, who says I'm totally right anhow?
Reassure her of all the things that won't change in her life. So if she can stay in the house she's in now, that's really good to know. If she gets to keep her same friends, staying in the same neighborhood, same school ALL of that is good for her to know. IF NOT, then reassure her of how often she will be able to return to them.
But most of this, really MOST ALL OF THIS is way too early to discuss with her unless she asks.
Also my mc said "Until you KNOW with certainty-like legal certainty-that a divorce is imminent, don't tell your kids. Things change. Plus the sooner they know the longer it takes and the less hope they have and it's more confusing if any reconciliatory acts take place. So don't tell until if and when you KNOW it'll happen SOON..."
til then, try saying, IF SHE ASKS about a divorce and only if
"I hope not b/c I've loved your mom a long time"... and tell her you are "working on things" and or, that you "still have some tricks up your sleeve" and if she blames your w totally, don't let her.
Honor your wife's reputation for your daughter's sake. Grasp this...your d will see the truth of things soon enough. Protect her as long as possible. Besides, is this behavior of your wife's new? Seems like it.
She might be acting a bit off b/c she needs help...let's hope she gets some.
((( )))
^^^^^ all of this is gold and wonderful. So happy you stopped by. And I agree with your comments re the other poster.
I read a quote that said if someone shot an arrow into your heart you wouldn't yell at the shooter you'd turn your attention to your heart. Heal first.
(I took my kids to italy when I realized my h would miss our 25th anniversary...boy did that bother him. I didn't know it then, but he told me later how much it bugged him knowing we were having a blast without him. Guess it gave him something to miss.
HA! I mentioned off handedly that we were going somewhere in the next few days (not even for fun reasons) and H said oh, I'm kinda jealous. I would have wanted to go. And I said you can if you want and he said I can't get off work that soon. oh well! Your life keeps going! They choose to not be a part of it.
I'm still playing catch up on your sitch...
so you had the DB books and were reading them but still confronted her and then STILL gave her an ultimatum? WHAT WAS YOUR GOAL??
She saw zero change in you before you forced a choice from her.
Do you see how your impulsiveness and anger/fury refusal to DB at all,
did NOT HELP YOUR SITUATION? Can you see this?
Hey I know you are hurting but can you process new information and take it in?
I need to know this or it's a waste of time to post to you before you are able to "hear" us.
So I could no longer take it. I txt the W and told her I knew. She txt back what are you talking about? I said I would not discuss it over the phone, with 30mins she was here. I ask her do you have something to say to me? She got very defensive and told me to stop playing game. I told her this is not a game, I reminded her that the last time we talked I asked her not to lie if she had feelings for someone else and you did. She finally said yes she was with someone else. We talked for about an hour about all our old issues I told her I knew we both mad mistakes but I wanted to fix them. I ask her if she lover the OM, she got quiet so I asked again, and then she said YES.
I told her that she had to choose our family or OM. She said she needed couple of days to think about it.
INSTEAD you might have said "let me show you that things CAN be better between us" and then behaved differently....gosh this is unfortunate.I said OK, seeing it was late and raining I could he she could stay in the guest room, and she said OK.
I went to me room and sat in bed thinking about things
and then it hit me,
why are you not in the same bedroom? Do you both sleep in separate rooms normally? WHY? Wow that's a huge red flag to me.
why does she need a couple of days t think about family or OM?
WHY? B/C SHE IS CONFUSED....wow, do you see how your ego made this decision? And then she said "I choose OM"...so your approach needs to change asap.
I don't think it's too late but you must act now. Be less predictable and different.Why I'm I given her this time and letting her sleep in our family house when she told me she loves OM? So I went to her room and told her I made up my mind. You either leave OM and commit to making our M work, or we can't begin to fix us. She told me she still needed a couple of days.
I told her that it not an option, you either want to work on our M or you want to be with OM. She started with the ITLTL speak, and I told her we have not even tried to fix it and I did not want to be a plan B if the A with the OM did not work.
what was the rush? Geez... 
She said then fine, I choose him. I then said OK you have to go and she left.
I don't think it was fair to ask me her H of 10yrs to give her a couple of days to choose her family or some guy she has been with for a month.Well, so, you don't think it was "fair" of her to want time to think? Your solution for "justice" was that when she fessed up like YOU demanded she do, and then she wanted time to think- late at night- you refused.
Giving her that time, could NOT have gotten a worse result than what you got by forcing her THEN & THERE.
Make no mistake. You forced her to choose b/c YOU could not handle any delay or uncertainty (which she has been living with for some time.)
Given that scenario, I can't imagine her not choosing OM. He sends love poems and expresses his love for her; you make demands, sleep in separate rooms and corner her late at night with lousy weather and kick her out when she's paying bills too. (Is the house ALL yours?)
As much as you hold her demanding job against her, I have to say it stinks to be a working mom with a tough job that requires travel b/c it's LONELY and if your h isn't attentive, it is a set up for failure.
Also, Don't assume her affair is one orgasm and laugh after another. It tears her up I'm sure. She is a mother and she's in a major league fog and she's been cornered by you and you showed her no hope of improving the marriage.
She wanted some time to reflect. You acted in haste and anger w/your wounded pride. I understand that, but I sure feel bad about that choice.
I don't know if this was the wakeup call she needed or the beginning of our D.
Either way, I'm ready to move on.
What? So after ONE LONG MONTH here, you are "ready to move on"....wow, that was the fastest choice to move on that I have seen on this board in my 6 years here.
A 10 year marriage with a child, then an affair of a few weeks or months, and you are "ready to move on".
Man you need to own a lot more of this situation b/c there's no way you are committed to change or working on the marriage if you are quitting this fast.
Now some people cannot forgive an affair. I don't judge them but I do hold them accountable for THAT choice.
If that's you, then so be it. But admit it and stop the score keeping and blame.
It's soooo counter productive. The separate bedrooms and the controlling impulsiveness you showed from the start, w/all the texting and pursuit and then all the anger and immediate demands for her to choose you or OM, NOW,
hey,
Spend your energy on making a better life for you, becoming a better more interesting involved man, a man only a fool would leave. And a great /grateful dad.
A confident loving man (even wounded men can have confidence) is far more attractive, and you need to give your w something to miss. And you need to give your d extra love.
ps
your d is watching you. If she knows you are hurting, then Model for her how to behave or react for when she gets hurt too. Be a man of strength & honor.
You can't curl up in the fetal position or stay bitter forever. You will need to GAL and show her that. It's a valuable lesson. You both need that lesson.
make sense?
Thanks everyone.
I do understand what everyone one is saying, but the nagging feeling is what I said before, and I know this is mind reading, but my feeling is she is only waiting to after D bday to tell me she is done.
Im willing to work my issues with the A, but it hurts that it continues even after she knows that I know, and W wants me to accept that it MY fault that it is happening. While I admit that I have not followed DB 100%, I do believe that setting a boundary of her not staying in the home while she is seeing OM is the right thing to do.
Thoughts?
Thanks everyone.
I do understand what everyone one is saying, but the nagging feeling is what I said before, and I know this is mind reading, but my feeling is she is only waiting to after D bday to tell me she is done.
Im willing to work my issues with the A, but it hurts that it continues even after she knows that I know, and W wants me to accept that it MY fault that it is happening. While I admit that I have not followed DB 100%, I do believe that setting a boundary of her not staying in the home while she is seeing OM is the right thing to do.
Thoughts?
I'm still playing catch up on your sitch...
so you had the DB books and were reading them but still confronted her and then STILL gave her an ultimatum? WHAT WAS YOUR GOAL??
She saw zero change in you before you forced a choice from her.
Do you see how your impulsiveness and anger/fury refusal to DB at all,
did NOT HELP YOUR SITUATION? Can you see this?
Hey I know you are hurting but can you process new information and take it in?
I need to know this or it's a waste of time to post to you before you are able to "hear" us.
So I could no longer take it. I txt the W and told her I knew. She txt back what are you talking about? I said I would not discuss it over the phone, with 30mins she was here. I ask her do you have something to say to me? She got very defensive and told me to stop playing game. I told her this is not a game, I reminded her that the last time we talked I asked her not to lie if she had feelings for someone else and you did. She finally said yes she was with someone else. We talked for about an hour about all our old issues I told her I knew we both mad mistakes but I wanted to fix them. I ask her if she lover the OM, she got quiet so I asked again, and then she said YES.
I told her that she had to choose our family or OM. She said she needed couple of days to think about it.
INSTEAD you might have said "let me show you that things CAN be better between us" and then behaved differently....gosh this is unfortunate.I said OK, seeing it was late and raining I could he she could stay in the guest room, and she said OK.
I went to me room and sat in bed thinking about things
and then it hit me,
why are you not in the same bedroom? Do you both sleep in separate rooms normally? WHY? Wow that's a huge red flag to me.
why does she need a couple of days t think about family or OM?
WHY? B/C SHE IS CONFUSED....wow, do you see how your ego made this decision? And then she said "I choose OM"...so your approach needs to change asap.
I don't think it's too late but you must act now. Be less predictable and different.Why I'm I given her this time and letting her sleep in our family house when she told me she loves OM? So I went to her room and told her I made up my mind. You either leave OM and commit to making our M work, or we can't begin to fix us. She told me she still needed a couple of days.
I told her that it not an option, you either want to work on our M or you want to be with OM. She started with the ITLTL speak, and I told her we have not even tried to fix it and I did not want to be a plan B if the A with the OM did not work.
what was the rush? Geez... She said then fine, I choose him. I then said OK you have to go and she left.
I don't think it was fair to ask me her H of 10yrs to give her a couple of days to choose her family or some guy she has been with for a month.Well, so, you don't think it was "fair" of her to want time to think? Your solution for "justice" was that when she fessed up like YOU demanded she do, and then she wanted time to think- late at night- you refused.
Giving her that time, could NOT have gotten a worse result than what you got by forcing her THEN & THERE.
Make no mistake. You forced her to choose b/c YOU could not handle any delay or uncertainty (which she has been living with for some time.)
Given that scenario, I can't imagine her not choosing OM. He sends love poems and expresses his love for her; you make demands, sleep in separate rooms and corner her late at night with lousy weather and kick her out when she's paying bills too. (Is the house ALL yours?)
As much as you hold her demanding job against her, I have to say it stinks to be a working mom with a tough job that requires travel b/c it's LONELY and if your h isn't attentive, it is a set up for failure.
Also, Don't assume her affair is one orgasm and laugh after another. It tears her up I'm sure. She is a mother and she's in a major league fog and she's been cornered by you and you showed her no hope of improving the marriage.
She wanted some time to reflect. You acted in haste and anger w/your wounded pride. I understand that, but I sure feel bad about that choice.
I don't know if this was the wakeup call she needed or the beginning of our D.
Either way, I'm ready to move on.
What? So after ONE LONG MONTH here, you are "ready to move on"....wow, that was the fastest choice to move on that I have seen on this board in my 6 years here.
A 10 year marriage with a child, then an affair of a few weeks or months, and you are "ready to move on".
Man you need to own a lot more of this situation b/c there's no way you are committed to change or working on the marriage if you are quitting this fast.
Now some people cannot forgive an affair. I don't judge them but I do hold them accountable for THAT choice.
If that's you, then so be it. But admit it and stop the score keeping and blame.
It's soooo counter productive. The separate bedrooms and the controlling impulsiveness you showed from the start, w/all the texting and pursuit and then all the anger and immediate demands for her to choose you or OM, NOW,
hey,
Spend your energy on making a better life for you, becoming a better more interesting involved man, a man only a fool would leave. And a great /grateful dad.
A confident loving man (even wounded men can have confidence) is far more attractive, and you need to give your w something to miss. And you need to give your d extra love.
She has not lived at home for the last two months, that was the first night she stayed here and that was the reason she was in the guest room.
dscl, if you don't know how fortunate you are to have 25 come into your sitch and try to help you, let me tell you.
she is a DB guru. she has given you the best way to make your marriage whole again. if you do what she has laid out for you, you will have your best chance.
you can keep defending your actions, keep making excuses, and continue on the road to divorce.
or, you can count yourself VERY lucky and follow her sage advice. most of us have the books and have read them but still have confusion about how to implement what we've read.
she has given you a roadmap. read it again and again, if you have to, because it is a roadmap that leads to a better you and a better you is what your wife wants.
you are so lucky.
I agree, and will reread her posts!
Im willing to work my issues with the A, but it hurts that it continues even after she knows that I know, and W wants me to accept that it MY fault that it is happening.
Ever heard the Aesop fable that ends "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush"? Your W has an OM and is in the honeymoon stage still. It is all good, very little bad.
I guarantee she has thought about working on the M with you. How appealing have you made it for her? She will have to give up what is 'fun' for her right now and put in work for something that might not happen. What have you done for you that makes you someone that only a fool would leave?
Did you go to dances at school when you were in junior high? Maybe there was a girl that wanted to dance with you, but you were too scared to get out on the dance floor. You were waiting for the 'right' song. Your W is waiting for that song before she gets back on the dance floor with you. Work on you before the last song is played because right now, you don't look like a desirable dance partner.
If/when you and W start working on the R, it is going to be hard work. Much harder than dealing with an A and OM. Concentrate on you and become the best person you can be. Make it so YOU are the person everyone wants to dance with.
Im willing to work my issues with the A, but it hurts that it continues even after she knows that I know, and W wants me to accept that it MY fault that it is happening.
Ever heard the Aesop fable that ends "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush"? Your W has an OM and is in the honeymoon stage still. It is all good, very little bad.
I guarantee she has thought about working on the M with you. How appealing have you made it for her? She will have to give up what is 'fun' for her right now and put in work for something that might not happen. What have you done for you that makes you someone that only a fool would leave?
Did you go to dances at school when you were in junior high? Maybe there was a girl that wanted to dance with you, but you were too scared to get out on the dance floor. You were waiting for the 'right' song. Your W is waiting for that song before she gets back on the dance floor with you. Work on you before the last song is played because right now, you don't look like a desirable dance partner.
If/when you and W start working on the R, it is going to be hard work. Much harder than dealing with an A and OM. Concentrate on you and become the best person you can be. Make it so YOU are the person everyone wants to dance with.
Lost,
I like that analogy, makes it a little clearer in my head. I think the issue I'm having is that it's still so raw. Knowing the A is still ongoing is consuming me, I have to let it go.I HAVE to listen to everyone is saying and what I've read, IT WILL TAKE TIME.
Brit:Also going out and getting Codependent No More as you have suggested.
Thanks everyone for pulling me from the ledge.
New day new opportunities.
dscl, I can promise you it will get easier.
My W started an A in late 2011. Hid it from me until I confronted her two days before my 40th birthday in April 2012. It is now June and she is still with OM.
It hurt like h3ll for the longest time. What was wrong with me? What did I do? How could you do this to me and the Ds? I stopped sleeping. I couldn't eat. I solicited help from her sister and friends. I chased. I pleaded. I begged. I wrote love letters.
None of it worked.
It will take time, but it will happen. I hardly think about the W and OM. My nights with the Ds, I enjoy the time I get to spend with them. My nights without the Ds, I enjoy the time I get to spend for me.
It is worse than you think it is. Accept it. Know that it is going to be a hard fight. Are you willing to fight no matter how hard it is or are you only willing to fight if it is going to be easy?
Vent here on this forum. I used to have to post a ton every day just to get things off my chest. It works. Whether people respond doesn't matter. Work on you, for you and noone else.
Thanks Lost, it helps to see another guy dealing with the exact thing I'm going through.
Just work on accepting their is nothing you can do directly to change the situation and don't even worry about the OM. It is just a phase.
I concentrated so much on the OM and what was he doing that I wasn't able to do that I drove myself crazy and it affected my life.
Here I was:
successful
father to 3 beautiful girls
devoted husband and provider
high moral standards
Here is who he is:
unemployed until my W found him a job
lives at home with his mama at 31
criminal with past and pending charges
It wasn't until I started to better ME that I began to heal. I stopped doing what I thought the W found to be attractive or desirable and started to do what I wanted to do.
This isn't YOU vs OM. Understand that. It is OLD YOU vs NEW YOU.
I am not expert on this. I don't know if my W will ever want to try to work on us again. The only thing I know is that I won't give up. It starts with me. The man leads in a dance. I am working on me so I can take that first step.
Here is something else that helps me when I am down, thanks to my SIL.
Our Ws believe the grass is greener on the other side.
My SIL summed it up the best for me and said:
"The reason the grass is greener is because it is fertilized with sh!t."
We can't tell our Ws that. They are going to find it out on their own sooner or later. Let them.
Hi I have been lurking on this board for years. More from a preventitive than a reactive situation. But here is my two cents from a guy in long term marriage (26 yrs) with 4 kids. My wife and I have our tough times and she has talked about leaving. We work through it everyday so it is possible my friend. But I also know that when/if I decide it isn't worth it I will handle it and be happy. Here is the mind set you need to adopt.
1. Your are the prize
2. You are a good man that any good woman would want
3. You can't change the past
4. If your W is unhappy that is her problem to deal with
5. If you have issues, fix them but not for her
6. There is always someone else who will apprcieate you
7. There is always someone else in worse shape than you
8. If you want to be happy fix YOU first. You can't fix her.
9. Decide if you want to be married to the alien that has become your wife..If so, why in the world would you want that???
10. The sooner you get your head on straight and realize you can handle life without your current wife. The sooner you will get the wife you want and deserve. That may or may not be your current wife.
11. The pain will not go away or lessen until you face these things and take action.
12. It is all up to you. You decide how long you suffer. This is not negotiable.
Wow, Vorlon. What a great post and advice.
Here is something else that helps me when I am down, thanks to my SIL.
Our Ws believe the grass is greener on the other side.
My SIL summed it up the best for me and said:
"The reason the grass is greener is because it is fertilized with sh!t."
We can't tell our Ws that. They are going to find it out on their own sooner or later. Let them.
I like that, I really do.
But put in a positive way, "The grass is greener where it is watered the most."
Meaning when WE work on our marriage and put LOVING ENERGY into it, it blossoms, (or gets greener).
I say "putting loving energy" into it, b/c when I hear the words "work on marriage" I know some people get turned off. They think it means putting up with things they do NOT want in their lives.
But we can all change.
Right or wrong, fair or not, the LBSer is the one who has to take that first step to change and become a better version of themself. And usually, the first 100 steps...but this is good FOR THEM so don't keep score.
To finish the analogy,
When we ignore/neglect our lawns, they turn brown and sometimes goes dormant. But They can be revived.
The sooner you get your head on straight and realize you can handle life without your current wife. The sooner you will get the wife you want and deserve. That may or may not be your current wife.
thank you for the list. This one is my new fave!
Vorlon and 25, great post. I was having a bit of a rough day, now I feel better. dscl, hang in there buddy. I'm going threw almost the samething. A big problem I have right now is trying to figure out if her actions are because of my detaching and changes or if she thinks I'm fine with the thought od the big D.
[quote=shockeddad]Vorlon and 25, great post. I was having a bit of a rough day, now I feel better. dscl, hang in there buddy. I'm going threw almost the samething. A big problem I have right now is trying to figure out if her actions are because of my detaching and changes or if she thinks I'm fine with the thought od the big D. [/quote]
A common misconception. Please don't believe for a minute she thinks you suddenly completely changed and are "fine" with divorce.
But even if she did, SO WHAT? Let her wonder if maybe you are not going to fall apart needing her and curling up into a fetal position. She won't feel more justified in leaving you if you appear strong. It's just the opposite.
Put it this way. Your 2 options are to 1) show your pain and neediness, which does NOT WORK-
or to
2) GAL, act as if you have something to offer the world and you look forward to being back in it.
Neither may work to get her back - but which do you believe is more attractive?
More appealing? More pleasant to be around??
Hope I've made the point.
Ok, so I've made the decision to work on myself. I've made a appt. to see an IC for next Tuesday. Thinking after dinner me and D are going to the park and enjoy the nice weather.
Brit: Just picked up Codependent No More on my way home from work, will start reading it tonight.
Hi I have been lurking on this board for years. More from a preventitive than a reactive situation. But here is my two cents from a guy in long term marriage (26 yrs) with 4 kids. My wife and I have our tough times and she has talked about leaving. We work through it everyday so it is possible my friend. But I also know that when/if I decide it isn't worth it I will handle it and be happy. Here is the mind set you need to adopt.
1. Your are the prize
2. You are a good man that any good woman would want
3. You can't change the past
4. If your W is unhappy that is her problem to deal with
5. If you have issues, fix them but not for her
6. There is always someone else who will apprcieate you
7. There is always someone else in worse shape than you
8. If you want to be happy fix YOU first. You can't fix her.
9. Decide if you want to be married to the alien that has become your wife..If so, why in the world would you want that???
10. The sooner you get your head on straight and realize you can handle life without your current wife. The sooner you will get the wife you want and deserve. That may or may not be your current wife.
11. The pain will not go away or lessen until you face these things and take action.
12. It is all up to you. You decide how long you suffer. This is not negotiable.
Vorlon: Thanks for posting this, creating a folder to keep post like these to be able to read when I feel I'm losing my resolve.
So just as me an my D where about eat dinner, the W shows up. She says hi to me in the same to friendly tone, I reply with a simple hey. As I server my D her dinner, W ask if I would mind if she made a sandwich, I say sure why would I mind? She answers with just a quiet "I don't know" and start to make her sandwich.
Me and D sit at the table and I start asking her about her day, I find it amazing how what we as adults would think that certain things are no big deal are the breast things for kids, I love seeing the world though my D's eyes!! The whole time W just sits there without saying a word and looks at her plate. As we finish, I take D's and my plate and start loading the dishwasher,in the corner of my eye I see W call D over and says something in ear. D runs up to me and says "Daddy mommy wants us to go get ice cream!! W laughs and yells out, "You where suppose to say YOU wanted to go get ice cream!" They laugh for a minute and they I say to D, No, we got ice cream yesterday and it's not something you should eat everyday. W looks at D and says, I didn't know you got ice cream yesterday (I never told her we went),. I say nothing more and go to the bathroom.
When I get out, W says, she is leaving, i say oh OK, we where about to leave also. We all walk out she get in her car, D and me get in mine and drive away.
I have to admit, it was hard not to ask W to come with us, also the laughing about D saying Mommy wants ice cream was hard also because it was flashes of things we laughed about when we where together.
This is hard, but it must be done.
I wish we could edit our post.
The line above should read best thing not breast thing!!!
dscl,
I agree with 25 about many things (as I said before, your need to look look on your side of the fence, your role in the breakdown of the M, what you can improve about yourself -- physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually [if you are so inclined].
I also agree with her that when you act, it is best that you not act out of anger or impulsiveness.
I disagree with her, however, in suggesting that:
1) You are responsible in any way your W's choice to have an A.
You ARE responsible for hurting her/neglecting her/acting badly as an H to her in some ways. You are not strong enough to control her behavior, however. She had many other choices that she could have made.
DO BUY INTO that you hurt her (and need to evaluate, how, why, and how you can change so that you would not hurt her or another woman the same way again).
DO BUY INTO that she FEELS that you drove her to the A (you don't have to agree with it, validate her and accept that that is how she feels. Do NOT argue with her about it).
However, DO NOT yourself buy into the idea that you drove her to it. Her behavior. Her choice.
This is all about boundaries. OWN YOUR behavior. OWN bad choices YOU made in your M (and may be continuing to make). Do not own your W's behavior or bad choices that she made or is making. It becomes a mess of boundaries when each person tries to blame their own behavior on the other, and no one is responsible for themselves.
"I WOULDN'T BE SO ANGRY AND BITTER IF SHE WASN'T HAVING AN AFFAIR." (your choice to be and certainly act angry and bitter).
"I WOULDN'T BE HAVING AN A IF YOU HADN'T NEGLECTED ME."
How far does that get either of you?
2) This is not to say that I think it is in any way inappropriate for you to be establishing and enforcing boundaries (as you sort of are) re: how you want to be treated by your W. The issue is HOW you do it.
Boundaries are NOT enforced effectively if you
-- give the silent treatment
-- huff and puff angrily, impulsively, yelling, etc.
-- don't tell the person what boundary of yours they are crossing and what the enforcement is
Boundaries are effective if you:
-- COMMUNICATE the boundary and CALMLY enforce it.
"W, I really am sorry about the state of our R and that you felt so [neglected/bad about the M] that you are where you are now emotionally. But, it doesn't work for me for you to drop by the house and letting yourself in while we are not living together as a M couple and you are involved in an R with someone else. I'm not ok with that. I'm sorry things need to be that way, but that is what I want given the current situation."
And, again, then you get to figuring out your side of things. In your whole thread so far, I think I have seen you post 1, maybe 2 SHORT, msgs about your side of things. There is more, much more, digging to do.
So woke up this morning and the W had let herself in after I was asleep and spent the night in the guess room. I ask her to come into the backyard to talk. I told her "I said I give you the time and space to think about our issues, but I don't think it's a good idea for you to spend the night in our family home while you are in a R with someone else" , she just said OK and walked away.
So I was about to walk, I tell the W bye and she
Says bye, I won't be home tonight.
I say ok and leave leave to take D to daycare.
dscl,
You set your boundries. Great!! It was the first step in taking control of your life, your feelings and your future.
Now it is the time for you to truely get your life going forward. That means GAL activities designed to benifit you and your daughter. This will include the legal side of things as well: She has abandoned you, the marriage, the house and her child. This needs so to be documented.
If/when it goes to court you will need everything documented to protect your rights as a parent and primary caregiver. If you do not methodically document and have evidence you willl likely get raped in court. Men mistakenly believe they are on equal footing in the courts. These actions are not to be used as a club or manipulative tool on your wife. In fact I wouldn't even tell her about it. They are for you and your daughter only and used only when you need to. You will know when its time to use it. Remember this is not the wife you married. She is the alien and will be counseled by an attorney who is out to win for his client. Not the once loving person you married.
Depending on your state i.e. no fault divorce states it may not matter about the adultery. But make sure you know your legal rights. This is all for your protection and planning. It may not be needed but its better to be prepared rather than getting caught saying ...she would never do that to me...I can't believe she lied to the court, blah, blah, blah. It happens all the time my friend so get your head on straight.
Be calm and rational. Be focused on what is best for you and your daughter. You can do this. You can handle this and be much better for it in the long run. Your wife is an adult and has made her choices. Let her live with them. Do not weaken and think you can save her. She will not apprecieate it and in fact would probably resent you for it. Women respect strength. Women need to know you mean what you say and say what you mean. A woman can only love a man she respects. You earn respect by consistency of action, strength of purpose and unwavering resolve.
Look at this as independence day for you. You are finaly free to make the right decsions for you and your daughter unencombered by fear of what your wife thinks, wants or feels. Not your job anymore. Congratulations on taking a heathly step forward. Your journey is a long one but it begins with the first step. You can do this. You will be happy again.
Vorlon
25yearsmlc I gave a short reply to this but believe it deserves more.
why are you not in the same bedroom? Do you both sleep in separate rooms normally? WHY? Wow that's a huge red flag to me.
Her coming over is completely new this week, before this she was out of the house for more than a month. When I woke up she was in the guest room.
Make no mistake. You forced her to choose b/c YOU could not handle any delay or uncertainty (which she has been living with for some time.)
Agreed, I guess I was/am in a fog myself and just wanted this to end as soon as possible, I see now hat this is a process that will take time.
Man you need to own a lot more of this situation b/c there's no way you are committed to change or working on the marriage if you are quitting this fast.
I have and I've told her so. And while I hurt because she has not done the same, or that fact that she is trying to blame me for the A, I have not told her I feel she should own her faults in our R also because. I've do believe I mad mistakes, but I can't accept that it gives her the justification to have an affair.
I've have begun to see (slowly) that I can't change how she thinks. I have to concern myself with my issues and work on fixing me. If she sees these and wants to begin on working on us, then great, if not, I know that this process will makes me a better man.
Good job, you need to tell her that you have boundries. You need to keep standing up to her and telling her how it is. She needs to get that dose of reality, and know how it is going to be if she goes thru with this. Job well done, I know it hurts, but your doing the right thing.
OK, great. Now keep holding that line -- not with meanness, vindictiveness. Your W may (mostly subconsciously) test you to see where your boundaries are (she basically already has done so with each of these drop by visits).
dscl, what has your W told you explicitly or implicitly about:
1) what you did wrong
2) what she is attracted to in OM (or what he does that you didn't)
That's part of where you need to focus some attention.
Judging from your thread on here, am I right that you tend a bit towards the fix-it/controlling spectrum (like many of us men), perhaps being impulsive, emotional or angry in doing so?
When we are not like that, we tend not to be there emotionally for our W's, because we are too wrapped up in our own concerns. We don't listen to them or, when we do, we don't just accept and validate what they are saying, but try to fix their feelings.
Maybe I am way off here and this doesn't ring true for you. What have you gathered so far about the big issues?
When we are like that, I mean
Good job, you need to tell her that you have boundries. You need to keep standing up to her and telling her how it is. She needs to get that dose of reality, and know how it is going to be if she goes thru with this. Job well done, I know it hurts, but your doing the right thing.
Thanks, but I don't think I did it to show her how it is, does part of me hope that this will effect her thinking? Maybe, but I did it for me. I also need time to deal with my feelings and having her here with what is going on would not help. I'll kept thinking of her and what I could do to change her mind about us and not dealing with my issues.
dscl, what has your W told you explicitly or implicitly about:
1) what you did wrong
2) what she is attracted to in OM (or what he does that you didn't)
1. She said that I did not show her love and was very distant and that I always made her think everything she did was wrong.
2. The complete opposite of number 1. He does he loves her, is there for her and the little things that I say bother me does not bother him.
Judging from your thread on here, am I right that you tend a bit towards the fix-it/controlling spectrum (like many of us men), perhaps being impulsive, emotional or angry in doing so?
When we are not like that, we tend not to be there emotionally for our W's, because we are too wrapped up in our own concerns. We don't listen to them or, when we do, we don't just accept and validate what they are saying, but try to fix their feelings.
Maybe I am way off here and this doesn't ring true for you. What have you gathered so far about the big issues?
This is me to a T!! I see now as I reflect on the years we've been together and I now know that it's a major issue I need to work on.
Have to admit, kind of scare that what I did has now pushed her more into OM arms. I know this is not what I'm suppose to think, but it is in my mind, maybe it's there since it just happened and I'll feel stronger as the days go by.
I MUST accept that I can't control her feelings or issues and concern myself with what I can... mine.
we don't have to agree on all things.
Busto, my main point even if it seems different, is that I see little value in hammering the adulterer'
IF reconciling is the goal b/c it makes letting go/forgiving way harder and perhaps
more importantly it takes the focus off things we can change, like ourselves.
But here's my question Lost,
why not go out for ice cream when your w and d playfully wanted to?
What was your goal in saying no? Surely it wasn't a boundary setting right? (is your d obese?)
DO you see how you might have looked just a little petty or like the downer UNfun parent?
Just asking b/c I am curious about your goal in that small, but potentially telling gesture.
Hers, and yours...
here's my question Lost,
why not go out for ice cream when your w and d playfully wanted to?
What was your goal in saying no? Surely it wasn't a boundary setting right? (is your d obese?)
DO you see how you might have looked just a little petty or like the downer UNfun parent?
Just asking b/c I am curious about your goal in that small, but potentially telling gesture.
Hers, and yours...
25yearsmlc, thanks for the reply.
Re-reading my post, I see I left out the part that us leaving (me and D) was to go to the park, we had a great time
Was not looking really set any goals. Me and the W have always set limits on the junk food we will allow are D to have. We have try to show her that eating no so good food is ok sometimes but you should not eat it everyday. I of course cannot ask W if she saw my point at this time, but I would hope she did not take me saying no as a gesture.
25yearsmlc, would like you thoughts on me asking the W not to stay in the family home while she is in a R with OM. Do you think it was the right approach or should I have let her stay?
So I have a question:
After we got married we moved to my W's home state and I left behind my family and friends. I have of course made new friends, but it is not the same as family and life long friends. Since this began I've been making excuses to my mother when she calls and ask to speak to the W, she still at work, went to the gym, is shopping etc..etc..etc.
Well, two weeks ago she asked me if everything was OK between me and W, I lied and said sure, why do you think that? and her reply was "I just had a feeling". I again lied and said everything was fine and, we said our goodbyes and ended the call. I'm now back to my lies when mom calls and ask about W (Mom calls about once a week).
So the question is, how long do I keep my family in the dark? I would not say anything about the A, but I'm wondering if I should let them know that we are going though some problems.
Thoughts?
we don't have to agree on all things.
Busto, my main point even if it seems different, is that I see little value in hammering the adulterer'
IF reconciling is the goal b/c it makes letting go/forgiving way harder and perhaps
more importantly it takes the focus off things we can change, like ourselves.
Yeah, I definitely agree with this part, 25 and dslc. I think 25 and I are after the same idea, dslc, that I think you are getting -- that as bad a boundary violation an A is in a marital relationship, that it helps the betrayed person to forgive and move past their hurt and anger if they TRY to empathize with and relate to the state of the WAS when he/she chooses to affair.
It usually is coming from a place of feelings rejected, hurt, neglected, resentful, angry -- all kinds of negative emotions from not having their emotional needs met in the way that they need them to be met. So, they feel justified, entitled to step out. Because of how hurt and neglected they feel, perhaps even feeling emotionally abused, unvalued. For months, maybe years of feeling alone, disconnected, unloved. And she may or may not have said things to you to show you this, but you didn't "hear her" or get it the way she needed you to.
So, while her choice to act on those feelings the way she did (A) is still a huge boundary violation and injury to you and your M, and totally her choice and her responsibility (and she will need to come to understand this eventually if the two of you are to reconcile successfully in the future), it is really critical for your own emotional well-being now and for any potential of reconciliation that you try to understand, like 25 is saying, where she was (and maybe is) emotionally when she made these choices. And why she might be scared and very reluctant to reattach to the situation and person that left her feeling so unloved and unappreciated in the past.
[quote=bustorama]
dscl, what has your W told you explicitly or implicitly about:
1) what you did wrong
2) what she is attracted to in OM (or what he does that you didn't)
1. She said that I did not show her love and was very distant and that I always made her think everything she did was wrong.
2. The complete opposite of number 1. He does he loves her, is there for her and the little things that I say bother me does not bother him.
K, there are a few different things here:
1) Re: feeling unloved, have you read or are you familiar with what her love languages are (or what your own love languages are) -- have you read "the 5 love languages"? As a starting point, it helps to understand what sorts of things each of you needs to feel loved -- what sorts of behaviors/actions in your partner do you hear as "He/she loves me."
It is very common someone to speak to their spouse in whatever is their own love language, but this may not be their spouse's preferred love languages. For example, a W might give Acts of Services, Words of Affirmation or Conversation/Listening Time to their husbands because those are things that their W experience as loving acts and what they feel they need for love. But, many H are on different planets and experience physical intimacy as loving acts, so we may feel unloved if all we are getting AoS, WoA and conversation or we may try to show our affection for our W through physical touch or sex, but our W experience that as us viewing them as sexual objects, because, physical intimacy may not be THEIR primary love language. The solution is for each partner to be in touch with the other's LL, so we can meet each other's emotional needs in the right language and feel mutually loved.
What do you think your W's LL are? How does she show YOU that she loves you? What have you heard from her re: what specific things OM does for her that makes her feel loved by him.
2) Re: criticism/unacceptance, that's so common, especially in men with controlling tendencies (Busto raises hand). So this suggests to me that one of your W's love languages is words of affirmation. This is why ever little criticism or word of unacceptance or challenge you have given her in the past has not only been a failure to meet her need to hear words of affirmation for you, but has busted any love (lovebuster) that she might have had in her tank for you.
So, in what ways and why do you think you have been critical or unaccepting of things she has done or ways she is. Can you give some examples? What is that all about for you?
Conversely, in what ways have you given your W words of affirmation? Do you know what they are? Or why have you not, you think?
A rule of thumb that is often said in marital therapy is for any single criticism or negative thing that you say to their spouse, their needs to be some much greater number of offsetting positive things we say to our spouse so that they do not experience it as us being critical, unloving, not accepting of them. For you, the ratio may need to be very high indeed now given that your W has a history of experiencing you as being critical of her -- higher certainly than someone she doesn't have that history with, like OM.
Have to admit, kind of scare that what I did has now pushed her more into OM arms. I know this is not what I'm suppose to think, but it is in my mind, maybe it's there since it just happened and I'll feel stronger as the days go by.
Yeah, very normal to feel that way. It's ok to feel scared, even terrified that you may have done something wrong and "lost her." You don't need to "fix" that feeling in yourself. When you are overwhelmed by feelings, try to go back to your code of conduct, your non-negotiable boundaries -- am I ok with living with my W if she is having sex with an OM? am I ok with my W being in a R with an OM? Maybe you are, maybe you are not.
If it is not in your code of how you want to be treated, then the right thing to do is to enforce that boundary. And what results is what results. But you are being true to yourself and how you want to be treated, which is the foundation of everything. Can't have healthy relationships with other people if you are not having a healthy relationship with yourself.
[quote]I MUST accept that I can't control her feelings or issues and concern myself with what I can... mine.
That's exactly right, and this is the other part of it. You don't want to do or not do something because of the effect it may or may not act on her. And I see that you are getting this -- you don't set and enforce boundaries to show her anything. You do it to be honest and respectful with yourself. Healthy relationships can then follow with those who choose to treat you the way you want to be treated.
Well I sure butchered that quote didn't I?
The last thing, re: your parents -- let me rephrase your question.
Why have you not told them yet to this point? Are you motivated by protecting yourself? Your W? or them?
What negative consequences do you fear from telling them?
What positive consequences might you hope would happen instead?
Well I sure butchered that quote didn't I?
The last thing, re: your parents -- let me rephrase your question.
Why have you not told them yet to this point? Are you motivated by protecting yourself? Your W? or them?
What negative consequences do you fear from telling them?
What positive consequences might you hope would happen instead?
Protecting my mother, my bother died less than a year ago and she is still morning him, I fear bringing up my issues would be to much for her to take right now.
Well last night was the first night after me asking the W not to stay overnight while she is with OM and she did not show up, she also has not contacted me. I did send her an email this morning but it was only about how are budget is tight and that we would need to watch our finances till next payday.
Working on getting a separate account, issue is that money is real tight right now and me and W pay all the home bills 50/50.
Well, two weeks ago she asked me if everything was OK between me and W, I lied and said sure, why do you think that? and her reply was "I just had a feeling".
I'm trying to protect my mom, not sure if she can take more bad news since my brother died only a year ago or so
(the above is paraphrased btw)
1) Do you see how your intention, as good as it may be, is controlling? That you are trying to manage your mom's emotions for her? Part of your nature
2) Mom may already "knows" what is up at some point -- mother's intuition. Being dishonest with her and not connecting with her about it is not likely to help. You don't know, she may feel in a better place if she feels she is able to be supportive for her remaining son. To be there for you. Really can't predict how it will be for her emotionally. Don't try to predict it or manage it for her. Let her manage it herself.
3) One of the things about setting and enforcing boundaries is being honest with yourself and valuing that. Do you also value honesty in relationships with others? In others being honest with you in their relationship with you?
Were you able to read the stuff I posted in my garbled quoted message further up about love languages? Have you read that book? What do you think your W's love languages are?
Re: your W not calling/being around yesterday. Yes, this is a process. It will take time. That sense of urgency you have about things turning around and getting fixed (and that may influence other parts of your life), take a deep breath. It took months or years for your W to get where she is and for you to get where you are. It will take some time to play out.
It is time to GAL.
Well, two weeks ago she asked me if everything was OK between me and W, I lied and said sure, why do you think that? and her reply was "I just had a feeling".
I'm trying to protect my mom, not sure if she can take more bad news since my brother died only a year ago or so
(the above is paraphrased btw)
1) Do you see how your intention, as good as it may be, is controlling? That you are trying to manage your mom's emotions for her? Part of your nature
2) Mom may already "knows" what is up at some point -- mother's intuition. Being dishonest with her and not connecting with her about it is not likely to help. You don't know, she may feel in a better place if she feels she is able to be supportive for her remaining son. To be there for you. Really can't predict how it will be for her emotionally. Don't try to predict it or manage it for her. Let her manage it herself.
3) One of the things about setting and enforcing boundaries is being honest with yourself and valuing that. Do you also value honesty in relationships with others? In others being honest with you in their relationship with you?
Were you able to read the stuff I posted in my garbled quoted message further up about love languages? Have you read that book? What do you think your W's love languages are?
Re: your W not calling/being around yesterday. Yes, this is a process. It will take time. That sense of urgency you have about things turning around and getting fixed (and that may influence other parts of your life), take a deep breath. It took months or years for your W to get where she is and for you to get where you are. It will take some time to play out.
It is time to GAL.
Point 1:
It is, and I see it, I have a IC appt. on Tuesday, will wait after that to have the talk with my mother, need a couple of days in between the talk with W and talk with mom.
Point 2:
True I think she knows "something" is going on, but I don't think she has an idea how bad it is.
Point 3:
Was able to read it, have not read the book, but will add it onto my list.
For as GAL:
Slowly I'm getting there. Just came from the gym on a saturday no less. I guess this could be seen as a GAL and 180. The W loved going to the gym, she would beg me to go with her and I would say no i'm watching TV.
God it hurts to see these things in hindsight.
I still do not accepted the blame for her choice to have the A, but looking back there was so much I could have done different .
So as I mention in another post, sent W:
We need to be real careful with spending money. The money in the account has to last to payday and we will need it for gas,food and to pay for daycare.
Her reply:
I am only buying food and gas - that is all I have bought
So it seems she took my email as accusing her of spending money on things she should not be. Should I reply:
Sorry if my email made you think I was accusing you of spending on other things that was not my intent, I was just giving you a head up about the budget for next week.
Send/reword it/ Send nothing
Never mind, think I'm not sending.
What about a simple "Great, thanks."
What about a simple "Great, thanks."
Thanks for the reply, but I think it would be best just to stay dark.I really have to stop thinking of her and her issues and start thinking of me and my D and continue working on GAL.
So I have a question,
One of the issues my W says I have is being distant and not wanting to do things with the family, that being the case, is going dark really a good option for me? For example, got a couple of 2x4 when I mentioned that I was king to ask W to go shopping with me for D's birthday gift. I do understand that going dark is to have them miss you and to have them think about what we are doing, but for a person with my past does this not send the signal of more of the same?
Sorry if I seem to be all over the place.
Yeah, it is good when you start realizing all the ways you dropped the ball in the past. Keep doing that homework.
I was just like you, my W would BEG me to go work out with her, go to a spin class, etc. I would totally miss the point that she was trying to connect with me and beg off by telling her to leave me alone I wanted to play on the computer. Great, huh?
Your plan to see IC is great. What do you see as some of your goals going in?
Re: the being distant and not connected, it was probably not just that you weren't connected to W, but also that you were not connected to D (and maybe other people in your life). So a 180 for you is definitely to be less distant to be someone that wants to be more connected with people around him.
As a starting point, really focus alot of attention on your D. Get out and do new things with her, reconnect with her, spend lots of time with her doing interesting and exciting things, talking or coloring with her or arts and crafts or sports if she likes that. What does she like to do?
In terms of your W, the problem is that she is in an A so if your boundary involves that, then you can't be seeking out connection with her. It's your own question of enforcement re: how dark you intend to be with her. One end of the spectrum is absolutely zero/zilch no contact. That you won't share ANY of yourself with someone that is cheating on you. If that's your boundary, then enforce it.
It is possible to be pretty intimate with someone without talking to them just by being open and honest with them. Like if she were to call or try to talk to you, just you sharing that you really wish you could listen to her and talk to her, but you can't under the current circumstances speaks volumes.
Re: her interpreting your actions as accusation/etc. she will see things this way for awhile based on past interactions. Don't try to argue her out of her feelings. If you ever do say anything about a misinterpretation like that, you do it by validating:
"Oh, W, it sounds like you heard that I was criticizing you, is that right? I can totally see how you would feel that way based on how things were when we were together."
And if she says yes, you could try to make amends for hurting her in the past by criticizing her.
"I'm sorry for hurting you like that by being critical." but not in order to get a response, just to say you are sorry for it (if you are).
hanks, the issue is she never calls and I don't want to pursue by calling/texting so it almost like a stalemate. Then the issue is if going dark will make he seek me out, but the issue is that that is one of the things she said was a problem with us(being distant).
I have starting doing more with my D, the only "good" thing that has come out of all this is all the time I spend with her, it's like we are are own little team.
My goals for IC are:
1.Why do I have issues connecting with people?
2. Work on my low self esteem.
3. Work on my co-depent problems.
Posting this here so that I can find when I need it. It's helping me let go of some of my anger.
Was having a talk with a friend of mine and I was going on about how angry I was at W because she was living the life of a single with OM, going out every night,having fun and with no concerns. My friend said "don't believe it, she is feeling shame and sadness but every time she does the OM just whispers in her ear everything she wants to hear to make her feel better and that she is doing the right thing. This is only delaying the hurt that she will go thorough once the A is over and by then you will be way into your path of recovery."
Make me a little sad thinking that W is letting OM use her this way.
I think it's crazy, the internal battle was have. If we only knew how they really felt we wouldNT put ourselves through so much agony. My h is living the same carefree life, and I swear he always looks on top of the world!
they do an amazing job of acting as if. After 4 months of this he recently admitted that he still found life very hard. One thing is for sure, the relief the op offers is only temporary. They still wake up feeling the same, even if op is asleep right beside them. They might make them happy, but they lack that soulful connection your spouse has with you. Trust me, I was once in her shoes.
you never truly answered my question about why the separate bedrooms. You said she was gone a month and when you "woke up" she was in the guest room. What does that mean?
I'm concerned that totally going dark will NOT help
your sitch, even though we usually stand by it.
Below are some reasons/comments as to why...
hanks, the issue is she never calls and I don't want to pursue by calling/texting so it almost like a
stalemate.
yes it is. And judging by the comment that you "woke up and she was in the guest room" and NO discussion occurred
means you've been sort of dark awhile...at least verbally. Well, and physically and emotionally too I suppose.
Do you also have a temper or was you behavior during the confrontation unusual for you? Let me rephrase.
Would YOUR WIFE SAY you have a temper or are impulsive?
Do you agree? Then the issue is if going dark will make he seek me out, but the issue is that that is one of the things she said was a problem with us(being distant).
she probably feels she HAS sought you out in the past...and the door was shut or the walls were up. Your sitch is a bit different than most.
I have starting doing more with my D, the only "good" thing that has come out of all this is all the time I spend with her, it's like we are are own little team.
^^^this is HUGE and is a good route for you to contact your w without looking like pursuing b/c you are being a coparent, AND showing her that you are not so angry that she cannot return. You are
Keeping the road home is paved and smooth...(IOW, don't make it harder for her to come back than it already would be and NO that does not mean she won't have to regain your trust.
But you are FAR from being in a position of telling her your demands for her return...so for now, just work on keeping that road home, paved and smooth.)
Don't show her your anger b/c no matter how justified or RIGHT you feel, it's not going to help you.
so send pics of what daughter does or how she is, with BRIEF notes and NO expectation of return contact. At least not for awhile....
and NO guilting your wife for not being with her d. She KNOWS she's not there. I feel like we've had this conversation before but on another thread...(true??)
My goals for IC are:
1.Why do I have issues connecting with people?
This ^^ is a huge question and, my comment is, it's NOT just your wife.
It's you. See this insight as empowering, not depressing.
It means YOU CAN do something about what is happening.
So what is it you want to work on? I hope you dig deep with your IC on this. It's crucial for anyone to feel close to another and feel intimate, that disclosure happens...
which is also why I think you can share your problems with your mom WITHOUT talking about the OM...yes, you can do that. you can say you are sep and having some major problems and YOU are hurting and trying to be the best dad you can be, etc...
don't cut your mom out of it but if you truly think her reaction to your w's affair won't help you (and most of the time, it will NOT make it easier on your wife to come home if she knows your mom knows...so think it out)
then just tell her you guys are working on some 'tough things" and you'd feel wrong to be more specific.
2. Work on my low self esteem.
see above comments...3. Work on my co-depent problems.
see above....and don't discount the power of motherhood.
Your w will miss your d and the memories you are creating with d, can only help your d, you and the R you build with w, whether as co parents or a reconciled couple.
Keep it up.
The rest sounds like a plan!
you never truly answered my question about why the separate bedrooms. You said she was gone a month and when you "woke up" she was in the guest room. What does that mean?
I'm concerned that totally going dark will NOT help
your sitch, even though we usually stand by it.
Below are some reasons/comments as to why...
hanks, the issue is she never calls and I don't want to pursue by calling/texting so it almost like a
stalemate.
yes it is. And judging by the comment that you "woke up and she was in the guest room" and NO discussion occurred
means you've been sort of dark awhile...at least verbally. Well, and physically and emotionally too I suppose.
Do you also have a temper or was you behavior during the confrontation unusual for you? Let me rephrase.
Would YOUR WIFE SAY you have a temper or are impulsive?
Do you agree? Then the issue is if going dark will make he seek me out, but the issue is that that is one of the things she said was a problem with us(being distant).
she probably feels she HAS sought you out in the past...and the door was shut or the walls were up. Your sitch is a bit different than most.
I have starting doing more with my D, the only "good" thing that has come out of all this is all the time I spend with her, it's like we are are own little team.
^^^this is HUGE and is a good route for you to contact your w without looking like pursuing b/c you are being a coparent, AND showing her that you are not so angry that she cannot return. You are
Keeping the road home is paved and smooth...(IOW, don't make it harder for her to come back than it already would be and NO that does not mean she won't have to regain your trust.
But you are FAR from being in a position of telling her your demands for her return...so for now, just work on keeping that road home, paved and smooth.)
Don't show her your anger b/c no matter how justified or RIGHT you feel, it's not going to help you.
so send pics of what daughter does or how she is, with BRIEF notes and NO expectation of return contact. At least not for awhile....
and NO guilting your wife for not being with her d. She KNOWS she's not there. I feel like we've had this conversation before but on another thread...(true??)
My goals for IC are:
1.Why do I have issues connecting with people?
This ^^ is a huge question and, my comment is, it's NOT just your wife.
It's you. See this insight as empowering, not depressing.
It means YOU CAN do something about what is happening.
So what is it you want to work on? I hope you dig deep with your IC on this. It's crucial for anyone to feel close to another and feel intimate, that disclosure happens...
which is also why I think you can share your problems with your mom WITHOUT talking about the OM...yes, you can do that. you can say you are sep and having some major problems and YOU are hurting and trying to be the best dad you can be, etc...
don't cut your mom out of it but if you truly think her reaction to your w's affair won't help you (and most of the time, it will NOT make it easier on your wife to come home if she knows your mom knows...so think it out)
then just tell her you guys are working on some 'tough things" and you'd feel wrong to be more specific.
2. Work on my low self esteem.
see above comments...3. Work on my co-depent problems.
see above....and don't discount the power of motherhood.
Your w will miss your d and the memories you are creating with d, can only help your d, you and the R you build with w, whether as co parents or a reconciled couple.
Keep it up.
The rest sounds like a plan! 25, thanks for your reply.
The reason I did not have a discussion when I saw her that morning, I was in total shock. Up to that moment she never called,txt,email or came home sso to see her there was just shocking.
Would YOUR WIFE SAY you have a temper or are impulsive?
I don't think she would say I'm impulsive but would say I have a temper. Nothing abusive of course, but little thing get me angry an I would have to agree she would be right. This is an issue I know have and need to work on.
Now some updates.
So the plan for father's day was to "let" my D take me to the movies. I sat and turned thinking if I should invite the W. On one hand I had "must stay dark, must let her see what life would be like if we did get a D. Then on the other hand "Do I really want her to miss out on a family outing, she is in an A, but can I really say I HATE the woman I've been with for 10yrs and the mother of my child? I can say I'm angry,hurt and disappointed in the choice she made, but I don't HATE her. So after a couple of hours of thinking about it, I sent her this email.
I'm taking D to see Madagascar tmw, just checking to see if you would like to join us?
Her reply:
Yes - will be there. What time?
When she got here, she walked in gave me a hug and said Happy Father's day, I said thank you.
Driving to the movies, D starts telling W about all the things we did in the park the day before and also tells her about how we now have a movie night every Saturday night (netflix) and all the popcorn we eat! I say quiet the whole time, but in the corner of m eye I watch W andI can see she is getting a little sad.
After the movies we go to lunch have small talk, nothing major and NO R talk. Since the whether is nice D starts asking if we could go to the pool. Now here I have a problem, I would love to take D to the pool, but I have the same issue I had the night before, do I ask W if she wants to go?
I think I really should end the day and just go our separate ways, but looking at the smile on D's face I can't bring myself to do it. So I said sure we can go, looking at W, I ask do you want to go? She says yes.
So we go hoe change into our swimsuits and head to the pool. D is having a great time and so are we. After awhile with D in the pool and us sitting on the chairs, W watching D, says "You are a great father", I tell her thanks and that the time I've spent with her these last two months have been great.
Once we leave and get home I grill some hotdogs and ask W if she wants some, she says no that she has to leave, gives D a hug and says she had a wonderful day with us (yes us, not just D). She then turns to me and hands me a father's day card.In the card she wrote, "There is a girl who has a wonderful dad, who loves her, praises her and takes care of her. She ends it with, you are a wonderful father and I love you.
I tell her thank you and that the card really means a lot to me. She gives me a long hug and says bye.
So today was a good day, don't want to read to much into it, seeing how things could be completely different tmw, but it was still nice.
I would have loved to have had your day! Even if its only one day...
you never truly answered my question about why the separate bedrooms. You said she was gone a month and when you "woke up" she was in the guest room. What does that mean?
I'm concerned that totally going dark will NOT help
your sitch, even though we usually stand by it.
Below are some reasons/comments as to why...
hanks, the issue is she never calls and I don't want to pursue by calling/texting so it almost like a
stalemate.
yes it is. And judging by the comment that you "woke up and she was in the guest room" and NO discussion occurred
means you've been sort of dark awhile...at least verbally. Well, and physically and emotionally too I suppose.
Do you also have a temper or was you behavior during the confrontation unusual for you? Let me rephrase.
Would YOUR WIFE SAY you have a temper or are impulsive?
Do you agree? Then the issue is if going dark will make he seek me out, but the issue is that that is one of the things she said was a problem with us(being distant).
she probably feels she HAS sought you out in the past...and the door was shut or the walls were up. Your sitch is a bit different than most.
I have starting doing more with my D, the only "good" thing that has come out of all this is all the time I spend with her, it's like we are are own little team.
^^^this is HUGE and is a good route for you to contact your w without looking like pursuing b/c you are being a coparent, AND showing her that you are not so angry that she cannot return. You are
Keeping the road home is paved and smooth...(IOW, don't make it harder for her to come back than it already would be and NO that does not mean she won't have to regain your trust.
But you are FAR from being in a position of telling her your demands for her return...so for now, just work on keeping that road home, paved and smooth.)
Don't show her your anger b/c no matter how justified or RIGHT you feel, it's not going to help you.
so send pics of what daughter does or how she is, with BRIEF notes and NO expectation of return contact. At least not for awhile....
and NO guilting your wife for not being with her d. She KNOWS she's not there. I feel like we've had this conversation before but on another thread...(true??)
My goals for IC are:
1.Why do I have issues connecting with people?
This ^^ is a huge question and, my comment is, it's NOT just your wife.
It's you. See this insight as empowering, not depressing.
It means YOU CAN do something about what is happening.
So what is it you want to work on? I hope you dig deep with your IC on this. It's crucial for anyone to feel close to another and feel intimate, that disclosure happens...
which is also why I think you can share your problems with your mom WITHOUT talking about the OM...yes, you can do that. you can say you are sep and having some major problems and YOU are hurting and trying to be the best dad you can be, etc...
don't cut your mom out of it but if you truly think her reaction to your w's affair won't help you (and most of the time, it will NOT make it easier on your wife to come home if she knows your mom knows...so think it out)
then just tell her you guys are working on some 'tough things" and you'd feel wrong to be more specific.
2. Work on my low self esteem.
see above comments...3. Work on my co-depent problems.
see above....and don't discount the power of motherhood.
Your w will miss your d and the memories you are creating with d, can only help your d, you and the R you build with w, whether as co parents or a reconciled couple.
Keep it up.
The rest sounds like a plan! 25, thanks for your reply.
The reason I did not have a discussion when I saw her that morning, I was in total shock. Up to that moment she never called,txt,email or came home sso to see her there was just shocking.
Would YOUR WIFE SAY you have a temper or are impulsive?
I don't think she would say I'm impulsive but would say I have a temper. Nothing abusive of course, but little thing get me angry an I would have to agree she would be right. This is an issue I know have and need to work on.
Now some updates.
So the plan for father's day was to "let" my D take me to the movies. I sat and turned thinking if I should invite the W. On one hand I had "must stay dark, must let her see what life would be like if we did get a D. Then on the other hand "Do I really want her to miss out on a family outing, she is in an A, but can I really say I HATE the woman I've been with for 10yrs and the mother of my child? I can say I'm angry,hurt and disappointed in the choice she made, but I don't HATE her. So after a couple of hours of thinking about it, I sent her this email.
I'm taking D to see Madagascar tmw, just checking to see if you would like to join us?
Her reply:
Yes - will be there. What time?
When she got here, she walked in gave me a hug and said Happy Father's day, I said thank you.
Driving to the movies, D starts telling W about all the things we did in the park the day before and also tells her about how we now have a movie night every Saturday night (netflix) and all the popcorn we eat! I say quiet the whole time, but in the corner of m eye I watch W andI can see she is getting a little sad.
After the movies we go to lunch have small talk, nothing major and NO R talk. Since the whether is nice D starts asking if we could go to the pool. Now here I have a problem, I would love to take D to the pool, but I have the same issue I had the night before, do I ask W if she wants to go?
I think I really should end the day and just go our separate ways, but looking at the smile on D's face I can't bring myself to do it. So I said sure we can go, looking at W, I ask do you want to go? She says yes.
So we go hoe change into our swimsuits and head to the pool. D is having a great time and so are we. After awhile with D in the pool and us sitting on the chairs, W watching D, says "You are a great father", I tell her thanks and that the time I've spent with her these last two months have been great.
Once we leave and get home I grill some hotdogs and ask W if she wants some, she says no that she has to leave, gives D a hug and says she had a wonderful day with us (yes us, not just D). She then turns to me and hands me a father's day card.In the card she wrote, "There is a girl who has a wonderful dad, who loves her, praises her and takes care of her. She ends it with, you are a wonderful father and I love you.
I tell her thank you and that the card really means a lot to me. She gives me a long hug and says bye.
So today was a good day, don't want to read to much into it, seeing how things could be completely different tmw, but it was still nice.
this ^^ was a very positive day for you! How would it have been different if you had tried to punish her with your anger and refused to invite her?
Learn from this and grow from it. Each positive bonding experience is like a small deposit in the bank. It grows a lot, OVER TIME...not fast or all at once.
Build on it without expectations...and let your wife FIRST learn to feel relaxed around you, which this day indicated. She can feel safe enough to be around you so she won't avoid it and that's a lot better than "teaching her a lesson."
As you learn to be around each other, perhaps, friendship will resume, a desire for a family unit will resume, and a better R will happen regardless...
It is NOT pursuit if you let it happen naturally & you don't initiate --although Father's Day was an appropriate day for this interaction.
You are luckier than most of the men here.
Congrats...well done
dscl,
You have a great start going. Keep it up. Your situation in inspiring for me, please keep it up and keep us up to date.
Well I've come to realize that I will never understand the mind of a WAS!
Yesterday while at the pool in passing I mention to W that I had a Dr. appt. for my stomach issues( I've had these issues for years and W was there for me the whole time I was recuperating after my operation). She said, I'm glad you are going to see a dr. to look over that ( Back story, As most men, I hate going to the dr. The only time I would go was when W would "force" me to go, so I guess a minor 180 that I'm doing it on my own)
So go to the dr. get checked out, and all is good!
Get home and I start to think, she did not even call to see how it went? I let it bother me for a couple of hours thinking how she made it a point to put it on the calendar when OM had a dr. appt, but for me not even a call. After awhile I start thinking , right now I'm not even a worth a second of thought to her. Yep that's true and guess what..... Why should I care what she is thinking?!?! I got good news from the doc and THAT is what is important!
Then just a few minutes ago, she sends me a txt, she starts with asking a question about our D, but then we start joking and talking about funny stuff from our past. We keep doing this for about 15mins, this is the most we ever txt each other since this all began, let along the fact that she reached out to me, can't remember the last time she started a txt conversation.
Strange I tell you.... Oh well another day.... Looking forward to my first IC session tmw.
dscl,
I'm glad to hear it went well at the doctor. I too won't step foot into a hospital or Dr office unless I was dragged in by my WAS. Then oddly for me too today when W found out I went in by myself she started some topic to try and push on of my buttons.
It feels good when you don't let it happen afterwards Huh.
Ok, Guess this thread is getting a little long so I'm starting new one.