Previous thread...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2251177&page=1I've been feeling good. I'm starting to slowly see why things have happened the way they have. I need to be a strong, independent woman who likes who she is before I can be a good wife to any man. I really am starting to embrace who I am. It's such a sense of peace.
Recently, I have been talking with that other guy more and more and I was coming to realize that it was starting to feel like a R. He was sending me messages everyday, asking me what I was up to and how my day was and always wanting to do things with me. He would make comments like "if you were single, I would totally hit on you." And he told me that if I did get divorced he didn't think it would be long before I found someone else.
And here I am telling him about my H and what's going on and he continually tells me that I should just end it. Well, I wonder why he thinks that...
I sent him a message today that I couldn't do what I was doing anymore. I had to be true to myself. I felt like by hanging out with him I was being a hypocrite and I realize now that I don't want to put myself in any kind of situation that could potentially get really complicated. My life is complicated enough.
He was very nice and cordial and wished me the best. I felt like I had the biggest weight lifted off my shoulders. I'm really starting to do things for me and it feels really good.
Good for you JKS, that was a very mature thing to do. I'm sure it was difficult, but you rose above. Be proud of yourself today!
Accuray
Jks you continue to impress me as I read your progressing thread. Your maturity and strength and determination to be true to yourself is so inspiring.
You are in my thoughts always.
((()))
I've been reading "Codependent No More" today and just wanted to share something that stood out to me...
Worrying about other people and problems doesn't help. It doesn't solve problems, it doesn't help other people, and it doesn't help us. It is wasted energy.
"If you believe that feeling bad or worrying long enough will change a fact, then you are residing on another planet with a different reality system." -Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
Worrying and obsessing keep us so tangled in our heads we can't solve our problems. Whenever we become attached in these ways to someone or something, we become detached from ourselves. We lose touch with ourselves. We forfeit our power and ability to think, feel, act, and take care of ourselves. We lose control.
Pretty powerful stuff here. And so true.
^^I think I posted at least 2 of these passages in my thread while I was reading that book.
Wow you should be really really proud of yourself!!! That is maturity and growth recognizing a situation and making a decision that's best for you! I'm so happy for you!
Oh I feel a bit sorry for my H as well he isn't learning he isn't growing and I honestly feel like if he ever does regret us he won't do anything about it.
Nothing new going on here. H and I continue to text every once in a while about "business" matters only. He's always very nice.
When he got paid this last Thursday, I decided I wasn't going to ask him to transfer anything in to our joint acct. And he surprised me. He transferred a generous amount all on his own.
I have no idea what he's been doing, if he's been spending time with OW or not. I don't ask anymore and I don't want to know.
I feel like things are starting to change from within me. I can guarantee that a year ago I would never have been able to say "I like myself." But right now I really do. This is huge. I haven't felt this way about myself in a long time.
I'm realizing that taking my time with everything is actually really good for me. No more rash decisions. I'm seeing more and more that answers are coming to me little by little. This is a VERY gradual process. And for anyone thinking they just want a quick fix, you are in for a rude awakening. There is nothing quick about this.
However, this is probably the most I've ever grown and I am grateful for the experience everyday. I'm happy. I'm really happy.
^^^That seems to be going around! Great, isn't it?
I can guarantee that a year ago I would never have been able to say "I like myself." But right now I really do. This is huge. I haven't felt this way about myself in a long time.
I'm realizing that taking my time with everything is actually really good for me. No more rash decisions. I'm seeing more and more that answers are coming to me little by little. This is a VERY gradual process. And for anyone thinking they just want a quick fix, you are in for a rude awakening. There is nothing quick about this.
However, this is probably the most I've ever grown and I am grateful for the experience everyday. I'm happy. I'm really happy.
This is so lovely and beautiful. I am so happy for you. In moments like this you can look back at the posts when you felt hopeless and desperate and almost laugh. I've done that a few times. It is a rollercoaster. You may still have dips but certainly deciding to take things slowly, No rash decisions will make you feel a lot better. In fact you saying this is making me feel a lot better about my recent money worries. No rash decisions, make informed choices, consider all options.
hmmm I may need to journal again. thank you! I love this outlet, and this board, and being able to learn from reading and listening to others.
In moments like this you can look back at the posts when you felt hopeless and desperate and almost laugh.
You have no idea...
Way to go jks. Your posts continue to inspire me.
I am not yet at the point where ' I like me'. I don't know why. I guess I am not sure what that feels like.
I look forward to getting there.
Continue taking care of yourself.
Hugs
My posts lately have been "hopeless and desperate" so it makes me (almost) laugh now ...
thinking about laughing about it later! Can't wait!
Thanks for the inspiration!
My posts lately have been "hopeless and desperate" so it makes me (almost) laugh now ...
thinking about laughing about it later! Can't wait!
Love what you said here... it made me laugh. I can't wait for you either. Its such a great place to be.
Good for you! You took the high road.
I am feeling hurt tonight. I guess here comes my emotions again. Nothing really of great significance happened today. I am just downright missing having my family together. Sunday nights were always our family time and now I spend those nights mostly by myself.
And don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy my time to myself but sometimes you just long to have your family by your side. I long for that feeling of being close with someone like I was with my H. I know my kids want us back together so much and I'm realizing now, that I don't NEED H in my life... I just want him in my life.
I still have a long road of trying to detach, I'm afraid. I love that I've been feeling better about myself and I know I'm capable of going forward without him. I mean, it's been 10 months without him and I'm still alive. However, having learned what I've learned, I would just love the opportunity to continue that growth with him.
I love these boards. They keep me sane. I have learned so much from reading everyone's stories. And I always appreciate the feedback. Thank you to everyone who gives me continued support.
Oh, jks, I really feel for you.
I know just what you mean when you are having a family situation, so routine, and everyone is there but H! It leaves such an ache!
And you've got the 3 little ones. Always needing something from you, I'm sure. Its nice to have H around to balance the family out.
Are you all by yourself tonight, you mean?
I've got my boys with me 100% of the time & we homeschool too, but they are older so it's like I'm never lonely.
You can be growing and learning and still miss him. In the Laura Munson book I just read (labug's suggestion) the therapist asked why she loved her H. Laura said she couldn't think of any reason right then but it's just different when they walk in the room. When they are there, it's testosterone, and you feel different. Does that make sense? I may not be relating it exactly.
Hugs to you tonight. You have been a real inspiration to me. Thank you!
Are you all by yourself tonight, you mean?
I'm not completely by myself. I live with my mom and her H and I had dinner with them tonight but it's not the same. H came today to pick up the kids and his family does a big family dinner every Sunday night.
Those were always the nights I looked forward to when we were together. The kids could play with their cousins and I just really enjoyed his family. The worst part about it is that OW is now joining them for these family get togethers.
That hurts A LOT!
I most definitely feel a difference when he's around. I don't even get to see him that much but yet he always seems to affect me so much when I do... STILL.
I'm just sad tonight. I haven't felt like this for a while. And so the cycle continues.
Oh, jks, not the OW joining them! I'd be livid, not just sad!
I applaud you for not being angry at H! That must take an incredible amount of strength to feel sad and not angry! How could he!
Those family get togethers are the stuff our lives are made of. I wish I had those even now. I have my boys but we have no family nearby and few friends. That part is REALLY lonely.
I'm so sorry you have to put up with this.
Today when my H held me I ran my fingers through his hair. He loves that. I tried to memorize the feeling of him to remember tonight when he's gone. I don't think that's wrong to treasure who they are even if we have to try to detach. To love the way they smell, the way we fit together when they hug us, to thrill at the sound of their voice, it's the spark we have for them. And it's precious.
But you are the mother of his children!
I'm not good at advice or thought-provoking questions like a lot of the others here on the forum -- but you can have TONS of sympathy from me!!!!
Believe me, in the past I have been very angry. Out of control angry. My focus has been moving passed that. This is where I feel myself growing the most.
If I'm being honest, your post made me cry. I have tears streaming down my face as I type this. It's so true that these relationships we have with our H's are precious. It isn't a game... it's real.
My family is sacred to me. I have a really hard time letting that go.
I was afraid that would make you cry.
It IS real. I believe we are created with that drive to make family sacred.
I'm so glad you have been able to move past the anger. It's so healthy. You aren't captive to a destroying behavior.
Tonight, it's just dealing with the sadness of being alone. Without them.
At least we have each other here on the forum and we can say things, perhaps, in writing that might be uncomfortable to say so easily in person.
Both of you have made me cry.
Your words are exactly what I feel. And ache for. My family. The presence of my H.
And I guess these feelings are part of the journey. And by having them I guess we can know that embarking on this journey is the right path for us. Whatever the outcome, this is the journey we are meant to take.
I read the Laura Munson book. Very inspirational.
Good morning JKS.........wow.
When it comes to the anger.. My hubby and I were apart living in separate houses for 4 months in 2007, He filed for Divorce 8 days later.and closed all our bank accounts......( I had some money tucked away....because things were getting bad really bad ) I left him but was basically kicked out of the house, we had been together since high school, going on our 24th wedding anniversary ( during this time apart )
The anger was the ONLY thing that kept me going....when I started getting lonely ( very lonely ) and there were no OP involved OM or OW thank god because that would have did me in... If I didnt stay angry i couldnt function. Where I had moved only 4 miles away the well shut down guess who came to help me..yep the same man that kicked me to the curb.....i had the hardest time when he was nice to me than when he was being ... Well to make a long story short......the Div proceedings lasted until April of 2008, right before we were getting ready to do the financial aspects of 3 business's and a long time marriage, I dropped the anger..got some wise advise from several peeps on this site and... ( of all things ) went on a beautiful camping trip together. ( MY Mom said to me This is the weirdest Div. iv'e ever seen " ) lol
It wasnt the most relaxing trip weve ever had still alot of tension and resentment on both sides Things were said that CAN never be taken back ( unfortunately )
He never agreed to MC...have been only one years ago one time and he would never go back the guy was an idiot...so once again I went to my therapists ( very pro-marriage ) and worked on myself....After all that do you know what the worst problem was??? LACK of respect for each other..................too much alcohol involved on both our parts...........and being able to just sit down and talk without starting an argument I learned to listen and keep my mouth shut..( not like a door mat ) but I learned to pick my "fights " wisely...in a calm loving manner....wow that changed about 36 years of doing the same thing over and over expecting different results ( Def. insanity ) Yes alanon helped me save my marriage also.
Well we are still together.......... married 29 years in August together for 42 yes 42 years, and I'm as happy as Ive been in a long time....working side by side in our business's and taking life on by the horns and knowing to let go when necessary. We never ever throw the big D word around because " been there and almost DID that "
We were never able to have kids but I'm soooo over that at my age of 56.....Gods will not mine.
so.... I guess im just trying to tell U things work out ( one way or the other...) and its OK to be lonely, angry, happy...They are just feeling and emotions they dont make U the good person that U are
HUGS
Cindy Lou .
Sorry.........I guess this is for JKS and Reaching Higher and all U db's that are feeling hopeless.........
Cindy Lou
Thanks, n.s.s., that's a real encouragement to know things worked out for you!
How are things for you today, jks?
Hope you're feeling better, jks!
notsosunny - what a story! Thanks for sharing!
HA NSS post made me smile because have said that to us that this is the weirdest div ever.
JKS weekends are the worst. I am trying to start new traditions. And when I feel alone I try to remember that I used to feel abandoned when we were in the same house and he didn't hang out with me so at least now I'm choosing to be alone!
Thank you, sunny, for posting. My thought process lately has been that whatever will be, will be. I will be happy regardless.
I am having a rough one this morning, however. I had awful dreams last night about H and OW. The part that hurt the most was that he was so disrespectful to me. He wouldn't answer any of my questions in a serious manner. He just laughed in my face and beat around the bush on giving me a straight answer. Then he would say something totally off the wall to hurt me and I wouldn't know whether to believe him or not. I was pleading with him to stop his behavior and when I woke up this morning I felt like a train hit me.
I feel like I emotionally really had that conversation and I'm starting my day emotionally drained. Super annoying. So here I am venting to get out this frustration.
I'm tired of waking up alone. Going to bed at night alone doesn't really bother me because I really do value my time to read and ponder about things by myself. (plus, when I was with H, he works nights until about 1:00 in the morning so I was used to it) It's just waking up in the morning and realizing, oh, yeah... he's not here. It still affects me EVERYDAY. Especially when my kids aren't here.
Here is my dip down on this rollercoaster. Can't wait to start feeling better.
GAL activities...
-I'm going to spend the morning going through my clothes and purging a bunch of stuff.
-Later in the day I'm headed to a childhood friend's house to do a photoshoot of her and her baby in their home. I'm super excited about this because she has such amazing style. It will be inspirational for me. (Btw, fun fact, for any of you who watch Yo Gabba Gabba with your kids... my friend that I'm shooting today is Foofa, the pink one. Really. She is the voice and she wears the costume and dances around on the show. It's pretty funny to have her do the voice for my kids because they're in awe that "Foofa" is really in our home. They love it.)
-Yesterday I got my hair cut and colored. Has anyone heard of melting? Well, I've never done it before but thought I'd try it and I'm loving it.
-I just recently met another photographer friend, in person, whom I've been friends with on FB for a long time. We had such a great time with each other last week that we've decided to do playdates every Thurs. She is probably the sweetest person I have ever met and so talented too. I look forward to our playdates each week. She couldn't have come in to my life at a better time... seriously.
-I continue to work out. I did an extremely hard work out yesterday. A cross training class that truly kicked my butt.
Honestly, just talking about these things is making me feel a lot better. I have a life... my H isn't the center of the universe. Detach.
Sounds like your plans with friends are gong really well.
So sorry to hear you are having a rough morning. I Soooooo know what you mean. I've been having really rough nights lately. Waking up tons of times. I try to stay awake late reading just to avoid the tossing and turning.
Haven't heard of melting in regards to hair color. Glad you like it!
The working out is good for us in so many ways. I didn't want at all to ride my bike this morning (I alternate workouts at home with bike riding - 3 days a week each) but I did anyway knowing I'd be happy later.
I cried a bit while riding.
There's a beautiful farm sprawling near a riverbank that I ride by. My boys and I met the man a few years ago and he was rather rude. Now when I ride by I see his wife often working in the yard, and smile and wave but she always ignores me.
I pondered the fact I'm joyful I don't live with a rude man AND I'm not a rude wife either! It helped me get out of my funk!
Hi JKS,
Zig posted some stuff about working through dreams that really helped me. Basically to not look at the people but look at the emotions you felt. Don't worry about what happened but what were the emotions YOU felt in the dream and how could you have helped someone in the dream (or even helped yourself) It really made me realize a pattern I was doing with H. I'm happy to say I've been dream free for a few days now.
Well I had one last night but I can't even remember that!
My room and sleeping has been an issue. I even noticed the other day that I have continued sleeping on my side of the bed leaving his empty.
We stopped having a routine about 6 months into our R, because of my job and then just because he likes to stay up late. REALLY late and then is always tired. But acts like a little kid if you say well maybe you should go to bed before 2am ANYWAY!!!!
Today I ordered a new duvet cover/pillow cases set. I also ordered 3 canvas prints of very girly pictures. I'm reclaiming my room. The bed right now still reminds me of him in a way. And when he left I gave him a piece of furniture and took one of his and another we bought but never "connected" with them.
Anyway I am reclaiming my space. I find if I wake up in a bad/space/depressed mood, I'll lay there for 10 mins and instead of thinking about that sadness I do the whole 10 things I'm grateful for. It starts my day right.
I am off to the salon on Friday. I am so excited I haven't had a manicure in MONTHS. Plus I'm getting cut and color done too!
Amazing how the little things can affect our mood and our outlook on our situation.
I've been having really rough nights lately. Waking up tons of times. I try to stay awake late reading just to avoid the tossing and turning.
This is exactly me. My mom doesn't understand why I stay up so late every night. But it's like, do I want to lye in bed thinking about H or do I want to stay up and read something that makes me feel inspired and forget about him? I'll take the latter. It's my way of coping right now.
Sleeping hasn't been that bad for me lately though. I haven't had bad dreams in a long time. I think what triggered it is that I went to dinner with an old neighbor of mine who's H left her last year out of the blue for another woman and is now married to that woman. (a woman he worked with, mind you)
We talked for hours and hours last night and it just really dug up a lot of emotions that I've been feeling lately. I'm starting to think that talking about it so much isn't as healthy for me as I thought. It's like... I've been over this time and time again. I don't want to focus on this anymore.
That is probably the main reason I've felt so good lately because I haven't really been talking about my situation and when I did, it was brief. But last night was a different story. I mean, we met at 5:30 and didn't leave the restaurant until 11:00. I need to stop doing that.
Brit, I love your idea of creating your own space. Thank heavens I don't live in our old home because it would be that much more painful. But at my mom's the space isn't really my own at all. I did recently have a thought to make some really large prints of my kids from the pictures I just took of them and hang them up in my room for that added "umph!" I know it would help a lot.
When I think about my dream last night, I think it exemplifies my feelings of having no control. H is doing these awful things and hurting me in such horrible ways and I continually have no control no matter how hard I want to fight it. And OW sits on the sidelines so proud of herself for getting everything she wants. I cannot think about this anymore, I will drive myself crazy!!
We talked for hours and hours last night and it just really dug up a lot of emotions that I've been feeling lately. I'm starting to think that talking about it so much isn't as healthy for me as I thought. It's like... I've been over this time and time again. I don't want to focus on this anymore.
I got to that point too, I dreaded starting up with a new MC or IC because I'd have to go back and tell the whole story again and that would leave me feeling badly for days. Initially it's cathartic to get it off your chest if you find a sympathetic ear, but eventually it becomes destructive because it sets you back in your healing process.
Your dream triggered me -- when we started reconciling and W was still getting over her lost love, she kept having dreams where I as the antagonist. She's wake up and tell me about all the bad things I'd done in her dream. That felt good -- I'm so glad we're beyond that now.
Accuray
I have had those dreams before. Waking up emotionally drained because it's like you were actually having the awful experience.
I'm sorry jks. But maybe its part of the healing process. Going through it even if its in your dreams. A way to purge some of the ugliness.
Before we left on holiday, unpacked up some leftover clothes of H's put them in a box, and moved some of my dresses to his side of the closet.
I still wakeup missing him, but afte this amount of time its almost a distant memory. Don't know whether that is good or sad.
Regaining space I think is important. I refused to do it since he left. His drawers remain empty his closet empty his side of the bed ready. What I did before leaving was almost not a decision. It's like I just did it without thinking. Maybe it was just time. Its my space now.
Jks, as for talking about it. I agree. Sometimes I just force myself not to talk about it with anyone because I am even sick of hearing my own voice.
This is the forum to do it I think. Because you are unloading on your sisters and brothers in arms. and we will always give our best back to you to keep you up and strong.
Have a good day.
Thinking about you...
It's true, this forum is the greatest place to unload it. I kind of get tired time and time again of explaining to everyone why I'm still married to my H. Everyone thinks I'm insane.
All I can say is, you'll never know until you go through it. And even then, you'll still never know, because you're not ME. I kind of get sick of the advice from everyone because I've already made my decision of what I'm going to do and I know what feels right to me.
Again, this is me being true to myself. And a lot of the time I feel proud of myself and empowered that I've made it this far. But then when I have people telling me that I should just call it quits, it makes me feel like "Do you understand how hard I've been working at this? There is no way I'm calling it quits now. What a waste!"
They don't understand that even though I'm not really in a R with my H, I'm still growing. I'm growing my own independence. And that is all I need right now. Anything that comes later will just be an added bonus.
I continue to like myself more and more. And to understand and realize what I need is the greatest benefit I can learn. I feel like I just had a really great learning experience in these posts this morning. Thanks to all for continued guidance. Yeah!
I kind of get sick of the advice from everyone because I've already made my decision of what I'm going to do and I know what feels right to me.
When I say sick of advice from everyone... I mean people in my life who don't understand the DB way. I continue to welcome any advice from anyone here. (just wanted to clarify that, lol!)
^^^ yes I know that feeling. I find telling people I'm concentrating on me and my S. then change the subject and say how are you or whatever it moves it on
I should give you a standing ovation for the maturity and strength you showed in your decision. I would be wary of such a guy - this friend of yours who encourages you to leave your husband and thinks you will find someone soon enough. Let those who have been through it tell you of how lonely it can get and how you regret every day of your decision to separate. It is always better to stay with your spouse if you can. I wish you the best. I really admire you.
Just echoing but yes. Only two of my friends and my mom support what I am doing. Others are just like 'screw him'
My heart is with u all
When you add the number of people telling your S they should divorce you, it leaves very few people holding up the marriage banner.
They need to read Chapter One of DB. The Not-So-Great Escape.
Just echoing but yes. Only two of my friends and my mom support what I am doing. Others are just like 'screw him'
My heart is with u all
When you add the number of people telling your S they should divorce you, it leaves very few people holding up the marriage banner.
They need to read Chapter One of DB. The Not-So-Great Escape.
I've just chosen not to tell anyone what I'm doing. I just say I have a plan, let me do it. I'll be fine.
When you add the number of people telling your S they should divorce you, it leaves very few people holding up the marriage banner.
They need to read Chapter One of DB. The Not-So-Great Escape.
Agreed!
But in actuality, I don't think people are telling my H to D me. I think more and more people are telling him to at least give us a chance.
But no one understands my reasons for sticking around. I'm going to go with Brit's advice and say I'm just focusing on me and turn the conversation back on them. It's starting to get really frustrating and I feel beaten down at times because of it.
Don't get beaten down. This is exactly when you need to stand tall.
This is your M. Your decision. Your life.
Am with you jks.
Yes, it's so hard. I feel like everyone is against me, too! I explained the DB thing to my mom, and now she gets it, but I have a family friend who's a lawyer, and he said the first thing I needed to do was to stop acting like a doormat, take my money from the account, and tell him to get the 'f' out of my apartment.
My mom used to have a phrase "don't cast your pearls before the swine" it comes from a bible story I think. But basically don't give your wisdom to people who won't understand it.
Those people pressuring you to D, or think that you should be more vindictive and less forgiving towards your S are operating at a lower level than you. And if you try to explain to them, you're only really wasting your breath.
It happened to me two weeks ago and everytime I would explain to a friend why I/we were doing something her response was "Okay, but what are you getting out of this?" "So he's moving in with someone and you're still supposed to be apologizing for stuff in the past" The point is I don't see things that way anymore. I am living my life differently and so there's not reason in explaining to them "being still" or "detaching with love" or just waiting to see if there's a chance.
The idea of being that vulnerable scares them and so they think we are strange to choose to be "not in control" and that we seem happy and calm about it.
Wow! I love that. It makes so much sense! It's the "higher ground". Thanks!
What it comes down to is that no one knows what the LBS feels until they've experienced it themselves. It's easy to tell someone to do something or recommend something because in the end it doesn't affect them.
For many people, an A would have been a deal breaker. Then it happens for real, and suddenly they find themselves not wanting to D.
My sister said that she thought the reason that some friends have become less supportive to me, is their fear the same marriage difficulties could happen to them.
MrBond, I have appreciated all your posts. They always stimulate me to think, and I appreciate that so much! Thank you!
No problem reachingHigher. That's what we're here for! : )
"My sister said that she thought the reason that some friends have become less supportive to me, is their fear the same marriage difficulties could happen to them. "
Oftentimes it's because they feel awkward and don't want to take sides. It's not that they are less supportive of you, they just don't understand. Until it happens to them and the first person they'll go to for help is you because you've been there. You wouldn't believe how many of my friend's marriages I've saved in my personal life.
I would! I love your advice and reading your posts!
"My sister said that she thought the reason that some friends have become less supportive to me, is their fear the same marriage difficulties could happen to them. "
Oftentimes it's because they feel awkward and don't want to take sides. It's not that they are less supportive of you, they just don't understand. Until it happens to them and the first person they'll go to for help is you because you've been there. You wouldn't believe how many of my friend's marriages I've saved in my personal life.
One of my dear friends (who actually married H and I) bravely admitted that her first reaction after I emailed her the news, after the shock and disbelief, was fear. She said she went home and asked her H "Are we okay?" I think it's a combination of the fear you mentioned and the lack of understanding as Bond suggested.
Bond, I would definitely believe the number of people you've helped in real life. Anytime I see you've responded to someone, I'm reading that post. You're a real DB Treasure (tm)
Thank you Mr Bond. As usual your advice resonates true. My SIL said to me 'just do it- get the D'
I said its not that easy you don't know what it's like, she said well I'm different- I would have gotten a D a long time ago if it had been me.
Bond, I'm curious... did your W have a PA??
"she said well I'm different- I would have gotten a D a long time ago if it had been me."
Yeah I bet we all said or thought that at one time or another. Reality is a a different story.
jks,
My W had an extremely strong EA with her married boss twice her age. Of course once I confronted him he pretty much threw her under the bus.
This might sound really silly but tonight I watched a movie called "We Bought a Zoo" with Matt Damon. Oh my word! I am an emotional wreck right now.
In this movie Matt Damon loses his wife to an illness and has two children with her. They move out of the city and onto this land that was formerly a zoo. Matt Damon's primary motive for moving out of the city is to stop being around all the things that remind him of his wife.
At one point in the movie he's explaining to a girl (Scarlet Johansen) the reasons that he purchased the land and moved to this place. And he realizes that no matter where he goes, his wife will always follow. The speech he gives at that moment just hit me so hard. He talks about how he just can't let her go.
Then they show him open his laptop and he starts clicking on all these pictures of him and her together and her with the kids. Wow. After the movie was over I had to get up and leave and literally just sob. I went into my kids' room where they're sleeping and just stared at them and sobbed.
To add on top of all of this... ever since the Bourne Identity came out (also with Matt Damon) I have always thought that if I were to compare my H to any actor, it would be him. Meaning same body type, mannerisms, looks... Matt Damon very much reminds me of my H and my H knows that too... I used to tell him all the time. In fact, all of those Bourne Identity movies were some of H's favorite movies. We were actually pretty close to naming our S4 Bourne. Seriously.
So that made it so much worse.
The thing I hate the most, though, is that this story was so sweet because this man loved his W so much. In my situation, my M has been tainted so much. I have the same deep love for my H, except there's such a darkness to it all.
I think I need to stop watching movies. And to be honest, I rarely ever do watch them. Watching TV or anything that has to do with R's just isn't the same to me anymore. I can't enjoy it.
Sorry for all the sadness tonight.
Jks,
I completely understand. I know this could sound a bit extreme, but since this started with my M and H I found I couldn't watch certain movies or listen to certain music.
So I stopped. Up until today I still won't chose to watch anything emotional or romantic. I try to watch anything to keep my up or interested. So give me the hangover, bridesmaids, MI 4, Tower Heist, CSI, JOn Stwert..you get me. Dumb stuff, funny stuff, action stuff. It's all I can handle and to be honest I can watch knowing I will be able to escape for an hour or so, with nothing pulling at the heart for awhile.
We need support ALL of the time. Even in our downtime.
Take care of yourself.
This might sound really silly but tonight I watched a movie called "We Bought a Zoo" with Matt Damon. Oh my word! I am an emotional wreck right now.
I saw this film with my S when it came out in the theater I can't remember if this was after H met GF or not. I think so. Anyway I was a sobbing disgusting mess inside the theater.
It's about grief and grief is the same during a divorce. Except when his W died they could have all the happy memories, whereas we're left with the hurt that they chose to leave. Even my teenage S cried a bit during the film.
So I stopped. Up until today I still won't chose to watch anything emotional or romantic. I try to watch anything to keep my up or interested. So give me the hangover, bridesmaids, MI 4, Tower Heist, CSI, JOn Stwert..you get me. Dumb stuff, funny stuff, action stuff.
I did the same. it was a massive step for me to watch Bridget Jones the other day. One of my all time faves. I thought the zoo film was going to be happy feel good funny! And there I was ugly cry with snot on my chin LOL
((( )))
Me too. I could not listen to the radio for months. I would listen to Buddhist/mindfulness/meditation CDs in my car...
I am still careful what music I listen to and what movies I watch but my range is increasing..
sometimes a cry is healthy, releases the hurt and cleanses us... i hope that it is that for you...
Do you remember how "We Bought A Zoo" ended?
Matt Damon takes his kids to where he first met his wife and is excited to tell them about it.
What I got from the movie was he was holding on to the pain and not moving forward. The memories will always be there, especially if you have children together.
It was through acceptance and moving forward he was able to find happiness.
This isn't unlike any of our situations. We can choose to hold on to the memories and the pain, or we can accept our new lives and move forward and be happy.
And there I was ugly cry with snot on my chin LOL
I laughed out loud reading this... I feel for ya, girl! That was so me, except I was at home and able to leave the room.
LostIn407, yes, I got that. And you're very right. I'm just very much still at a point where I can't let go. But still very much trying to move forward.
It's crazy to think that I've been separated from H for almost a year now. I am definitely different but my heart still belongs to H. That is something I cannot deny.
Actually, the more I think about, I'm thinking that I'm probably having all this sadness and missing H just because I'm really not around him very much. I think things would be totally different if he were in my life more. As the saying goes... "Absence makes the heart grow fonder."
I just need to remember that... because when I was with H all the time, there were definitely times of not feeling an attraction to him. As perfect as I make him out to be in my head, he really wasn't. Just thinking aloud here.
well that's exactly what I was saying yesterday I think about him and ruminate etc etc and then he shows up and I'm like "really?"
Remember that scene with the lion that they needed to put down? I think there was symbolism in that about letting go. It's funny because me and S joke about that sometimes. How we thought it was going to be happy and funny.
(I even burst into tears when he was so frustrated at the hardware store and the lady behind the counter said I used to go there...you're doing a good thing. And I thought that's all you need sometimes one person to say you're doing good...That movie...therapy right there!)
Jks, sorry to hear the movie made you so sad. I saw the trailer a while ago but now am glad I didn't see it.
I've stopped listening to music in the car now. I just want to think my own thoughts--not somebody else's.
About missing our H's so much.....I was thinking how amazing and incredible my H was and how I'll never find anyone like him again. Ever.
Then...I started thinking how he was before we dated. (we worked together). I really didn't find him amazing and incredible before we started dating. Just a nice guy. He became this wonderful person as our love grew through the years.
When H came by the house last night I tried to look at him through different eyes. He just looked like a normal, average guy. He's just really special to me.
So...does that mean a lot of our missing them is the whole package? Or is that what love for another person really is?
So...does that mean a lot of our missing them is the whole package? Or is that what love for another person really is?
I think that's what love for another person really is. Not every person has to be amazing looking and ridiculously charismatic, but when you dig deeper and find those little things that just make someone extremely special and find yourself drawn to those things, it's hard to see them any other way but to love them. That's why detaching seems impossible (at least, to me, sometimes) because there is no one in the world like them.
It's not easy to find love. I mean true love. I will always be grateful to H for allowing me to know how it feels to be truly in love. That is a gift I will take from our R.
I know it's not impossible to find love again and I'm constantly on the fence whether I should start to put my focus towards dating. It's hard to look towards the future and feel like I could be in this limbo stage for a LONG time. However, the thing that keeps drawing me back to sticking it through is knowing that it feels right. I love myself more. I want this girl that I am now to be with the man that I fell in love with 10 years ago.
I want the opportunity to go through our mess and clean it up, so to speak. I hate the feeling of knowing that our R is broken and it may never go through the healing process it deserves.
But, no expectations, right? I swear I could wait a whole another six months and H will probably not say a word to me about our R. He's just REALLY, REALLY good at avoiding. So at this rate, it could go on forever.
He's too nice to file the papers for D but then he's too nice to tell OW that it's over and he can't see her anymore. And he's too nice to split up our family.
Oh well... at least I know what I want. I feel bad that he's so conflicted inside. Just sukks that he put himself in this position.
"I love myself more. I want this girl that I am now to be with the man that I fell in love with 10 years ago. I want the opportunity to go through our mess and clean it up, so to speak."
I love what you said here. (I don't know how to do that quote thingy.)
It tells of major growth in you from this painful experience.
And I enjoy reading what you write about love. True love. It calls me to higher ground in my sitch. To look at my H and allow him to grow too. To hope and pray for flowers in my garden as I prepare the soil and plant the seeds of love for us.
"He's too nice to file the papers for D ... And he's too nice to split up our family."
My H is like that too. I think he would gladly D now. Follow his own path. And more likely than not, be sorry later and want to come back. I feel like it would be too much for the rest of us to go through, so I'm willing to stay in "this limbo stage for a LONG time".
Jks, everything you write resonates with me. I'm so sorry for the pain you are going through. I really admire you being so young and holding up so well and holding on to dreams and hopes.
I hope you have a good day today!
This discussion sparked something in me. My H is very like what you describe, what's commonly known as "nice". There's even the Mr Nice Guy book. As I've said before ask 100 people to describe my H and they would say, "He's a really nice guy."
True enough, but I don't think it's being nice.
It's avoidant. And it's controlling in its own way. He avoided conflict for years until he just couldn't take it and BAM-he's done. Yes, there were little signs along the way but, I was giving off little signs too. When you're maintaining a household, raising 2 kids, taking care of a dying mother, each working, building a house, who notices little signs?
I have to be really honest with myself about that because just as my issues contributed to the marriage breakup, his did, too. Has he worked on his issues? Does he want to be a true partner? Who knows at this point but I need to keep my eyes wide open.
He's a great person, and I do love him but if we R, I don't want to live each day thinking, "He seems happy, but I wonder what he might be keeping from me."
Another rollercoaster, I'm sure.
I'm there now Labug -- "she seems happy, but I wonder what she might be keeping from me." Well put. I believe they keep things from us because telling us isn't "safe". Making it safe is the challenge for us.
Accuray
Wow- once again. The way you describe your H...it is my H too. A nice guy to others. I don't see it as so nice but avoidant.
Echoing you jks, bug and accuracy. I relate to that feeling of us making it safe for them ( even though I am not in piecing I understand that this is something that needs to be done).
I believe they keep things from us because telling us isn't "safe". Making it safe is the challenge for us.
Accuray
Accuray this is good. I agree, making it safe is definitely the challenge. I'm right in that spot now. Trying to make it safe, but not really knowing if H feels safe at all.
He avoided conflict for years until he just couldn't take it and BAM-he's done. Yes, there were little signs along the way but, I was giving off little signs too. When you're maintaining a household, raising 2 kids, taking care of a dying mother, each working, building a house, who notices little signs?
Wow, this describes my situation to a "T." In a way, it's like you almost feel immune to the possibility of D when you're in the thick of it. Just knowing that times are hard right now and we'll get through it.
Well, I guess we're never immune to it. Life is fragile. Relationships are fragile and taking mine for granted was my biggest mistake. Never again.
In fact, my brother and his W, through their bad behavior, remind me of how sad it is to take each other for granted. They constantly talk to down to each other and complain to each other. I never want to have a R like that again. It's so important to show the person you love the most, the simplest acts of love. Speaking to each other in a loving way, complimenting each other, asking each other how you can help one another. I get this now.
If you were to ask 100 people to describe my H, they would say "He's just the type of guy you can tell anything to." I know a lot of people look up to him because of his goodness. I hope, like you, Labug, that he's growing from this experience just as much as I am. Only time will tell.
Yes, I too have learned from this so, so much. I did take things for granted, I put too much energy into the external, I got too wrapped up in me.
I didn't have the tools or the understanding or the willingness then.
Now, I am different.
Yes, I too have learned from this so, so much. I did take things for granted, I put too much energy into the external, I got too wrapped up in me.
I didn't have the tools or the understanding or the willingness then.
Now, I am different.
Right there with ya, girl. I hope we'll both get the opportunity one day.
jks, I'm thinking of you this evening and hope you are doing okay.
jks, I'm thinking of you this evening and hope you are doing okay.
Thanks so much, reachinghigher. I'm good. Not great but good. Somewhat at peace with myself. My kids went with H yesterday because I had to work and they stayed overnight because of Father's Day today and my mom and her H left for a 3 week trip to Alaska this morning so I'm on my own for a while. I went to church by myself this morning and was a little sad at times when they were talking about fathers and then had some great spiritual moments as well.
I've been hearing this quote a lot lately and it hits me so hard every time, I heard it today at church... "The greatest gift a father can give his children is to love their mother."
I remember telling my H this in January and his response was, thanks for making me feel guilty. Obviously, that wasn't my goal. It's just a known fact. It teaches girls about the importance of being with a man that truly respects them and shows them love in an admirable way. It teaches boys the way they should be treating women and how to be respectful. I am still hoping for another chance at that.
This Father's Day has been a weird one. I am here alone. My father passed away 7 years ago and so my previous Father's Days have always been spent with H's father and family. Plus, I would be celebrating my H as the father of my children as well. Just weird that my life is like this now. I'm ok with it, really, it doesn't bother me as much as it used to but it's still weird nonetheless.
H ran that relay race with OW, his sister and his dad over the weekend. Remember how he said he just wanted to get through that and then he would find the best time to end things with OW? I'm not holding my breath. I haven't talked to him much at all.
I struggle everyday to know if I really feel like we can make it through this. At times I think "absolutely," and other times, I think, "wow, this is going to be extremely hard."
I'm pretty used to the fact of planning things for me and only me for my future. I just recently planned a mini getaway with a friend for the 4th of July with my kids. It makes me excited to have something to look forward to. Holidays have been hard but as time goes on, it's getting to be normal.
It's not him and me anymore. It's just me. And at times it feels really good to just do the things I want to do and not have to worry about if H will want to do it or not. I have freedom. I'm enjoying this for what it is.
Something I didn't share that happened last Thursday is my SIL gave my number to a guy she works with and showed him a picture of me. He contacted me on Thurs night and we texted for a while and then he ended up calling me. He asked me what I was looking for in men and I basically said, right now, I don't really know how to answer that. He took that as I just want someone to make out with. I told him, no, I wasn't trying to say that. We talked some more and then he got this really great idea that we should meet each other that night.
By this time it was 11:30 at night. My kids were with me asleep but my mom and her H were here with them. I kept telling him no, it's too late and I'm not ready for the day. I was in my pajamas. He said, don't you ever like to do things that are spontaneous? I said, before I was married, maybe I wouldn't have a problem doing this but right now, I can't. Anyway, he kept pressuring me and I finally told him... well, just so you know, I'm not making out with you. He said, ok.
So I went and met him (yeah, I'm retarded, but kept my guard up) and from the whole conversation I basically got that he just wanted some action. I don't know why he thought I was going to give it to him. It was weird.
I learned that I am building more and more self respect for myself. If this were me before I was married, I would have probably given in (meaning, I would have given him what he wanted). I just lacked the self esteem needed to stand up for myself back then. Granted, I did go and meet him but did not let it go further than just talking. Next time, there will be no meeting involved. I should have stood my ground more on that.
I also learned that the way I feel about H is so much deeper than any way I could feel about another guy right now. The one thing that stood out in my mind while I was with this guy is, my H would never treat a woman this way. Meaning, just call a random girl for a booty call in the middle of the night. He is more respectful than that... (you're probably thinking, did she really just say that? He's having a PA.)
It took a lot for my H to be able to get to a place of finally sleeping with someone else. And the woman he's sleeping with is someone he's known for a long time and they did have an EA for almost a year or more before they slept together. So, yes, what he's doing to me right now is disrespectful but I don't think he uses women to get action. I genuinely feel like he thinks he could spend the rest of his life with this woman. And, who knows, he still might.
So just some crazy things I've been going through and thinking about lately. I keep learning things about myself daily. The learning process never stops. I like me and I'm feeling like I can see good thing for my future. I don't know exactly what that is yet but I feel good about it still.
I also wanted to let a lot of you know, that I think I am among some really amazing people on these boards. The amount of strength and courage it takes to take the "higher road" is really so commendable. In a society where everyone believes they're entitled to whatever they want, whenever they want... it's refreshing to know there's still people out there that value hard work and long suffering. Life is that much more meaningful when we've worked so hard to achieve the things we know are right.
Wow, jks.
I'm glad you stood your ground and didn't go against your current convictions with this guy. I think it would've really messed with your mind.
I hear a lot of peace within yourself, but still acknowledging desire for H and loneliness. It sounds really balanced to me.
I can see you respect your H even if not agreeing with his choices. You seem way past the anger stage. I so, so, so hope he comes to his senses soon to see the jewel he has in you!!
Thanks for your courage and honesty in posting your sitch and activities.
Wow JKS, that's a wild story -- I didn't think things like that really happened! He must have been pretty smooth to coax you out of your house at 11:30 at night to meet him, good for you for putting the brakes on. W told me she used to put herself in those situations when she was in her 20's and would also give in because it seemed easier than making a scene. I don't get that.
From the tone of your post it does seem you're doing better, you seem to have found much more calm and peace. I realize it is still terribly terribly hard, but I really think you're doing great!
Accuray
W told me she used to put herself in those situations when she was in her 20's and would also give in because it seemed easier than making a scene. I don't get that.
Accuray
It's because as women with low self esteem, you take having a man wanting to show you affection and such as someone who really cares about you and so therefore, its a confidence booster. Deep down we all know we shouldn't be doing it and it feels like crap afterwards but for the moment we feel like this guy really likes me. And, yes, as a young girl with low self esteem, it was harder for me to say no because I didn't want to make the guy feel stupid either. It's totally messed up.
Oh, and btw, after meeting him, I think HE thought he was pretty smooth. But I wasn't falling for it. I agreed to meet him because I thought it would be fun to meet someone new and talk for a bit but after a while it was so obvious what he wanted. Lesson learned. It's like I'm starting all over again with guys these days. So strange.
I found this letter tonight that I wrote my H the day that he left me back in August last year...
I just want you to know that I am grateful that you have taken this step. It has really made me take a step back and open my eyes. I have not been living these past couple of years. I have been drowning in my own negativity. I am not the person you once married and I completely realize that. This situation is going to be so hard but it's going to make me better. I'm actually shocked at how far I have let this go. Please know that I want to change. I want to love myself and hope that you might love me again someday too. You are not a failure. You did what you had to do. Hopefully, I will become a better person from this experience and a better mother. I have relied on you for too long and I've become so dependent on you that I need to learn to make it on my own. It hasn't been fair to you and you have been more than accepting of me.
I hope that one day we can "date" again and possibly find the friendship and love we once had. Until then, I am going to keep fighting to live. Live for myself. Live for my children and live for us.
You are the most amazing person I have ever met. And I love you. I will always love you no matter what you decide.
-JKS
It's so interesting to reflect back and see the growth that I've had over this past year. I really do feel like I'm on the road to accomplishing a lot of the things that I stated in this letter.
I look at that woman who wrote this at a time that seems so long ago and think... she has no idea what she's in for. Quite honestly, if it hadn't been for the DR book and this forum, I would not have been able to get this far. Call me a believer... I am.
You're getting there, jks. Staying on the path is the hardest part of the journey.
I've been having a hard time lately. I just have been really down. I'm trying so desperately to pull myself out of this "funk."
H texted me this morning asking me how I was doing and if I received the tail light in the mail that he ordered for my car. I told him, yes. He then asked me how I was doing on money and asked if I had already been paid for the jobs that I had done recently. I told him I was paid a while ago and that a lot of my money had to go towards paying my sales tax for my business. So I didn't have a ton left.
He said he was in the same boat because the house was killing him. (He's had to pay for a lot of unexpected maintenance on it lately.) I told him, I know, I'm sorry.
That was it. I know this is my negative thinking, but I just feel like a burden to him. I think he really may be happy with his decision to continue dating OW and I'm kind of just an afterthought.
I know, I'm lame today. I've been trying so hard not to be affected by H and his actions but sometimes I crack. I will continue not to contact him.
My new friend that I've been hanging out with has been helping me make a new website for my photography. I'm really trying to put more of my focus towards my business and making more money. I know this will help me in so many ways.
Life... you are hard!!
Up and down up and down.
Jks, you are not an afterthought. Dont let his choices make you put yourself down like that. Unfortunately his choices are only about him right now. Not about you and him, even though they directly affect you- they are not about you.
I know I am only repeating advice from more experienced people here, but I believe it. This is his journey and you have your own right now. We cannot let their actions affect who we are and HOW WE FEEL right now, Because they have already detached from us. So really we have nothing to do with those choices.
I hate that you are feeling like this today. Because I know what it feels like. But try and stop the feeling. You are beautiful, smart, a great mother and a talented photographer.
((( )))
Indeed, life is hard.
I know this whole thing suks and it especially suks when there is OP involved.
Personally, I tried to channel my frustration, hurt and anger into motivation. When I would workout, I'd picture my W's boyfriend's face when I was punching or kicking. When I went to the driving range, I'd pretend that the golf ball was his face.
I know it isn't "DB'ing". I suppose it helped me GAL.
After a certain point, it didn't matter to me what my W was doing. I embraced being single and lived my life accordingly. By the facts in front of me.
I cannot stop crying today. I don't know what's wrong with me. My mind is in a bad place and I don't know how to get back to that peaceful place I was just a couple days ago.
I AM SO TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT WHAT MY KIDS ARE DOING WITH MY H AND OW. When will it ever stop bothering me? I've been trying so hard to just be ok with whatever will be. But it's like I'm lying to myself. Its times like these that I just want to leave. And I mean literally walk out on everyone's lives. And then I realize, I'll never escape this sadness and hurt even if I do move away. So then it just makes me want to be done with my life.
I don't know what's come over me. I just feel so exhausted from trying to be so strong. Deep down I'm just so sad. And the worst part is, my H and his family carry on like nothing. I feel so dispensable. Easily replaced.
I don't know how to move forward. Today is an awesome day...
JKS,
You are a beautiful person. I'm going to give you two assignments:
1) Whatever you're doing, stop, get outside and work up a sweat exercising -- I recognize that you're a lady so maybe perspire instead of sweat. I don't care how you do it, run, walk, bike whatever it takes
2) Pick a sympathetic friend who knows your sitch, call them and let everything out, don't hold anything back. Tell them you just want them to listen and be supportive, you're not looking for solutions
Do both of those before you go to bed tonight
Accuray
JKS--
I may not be there, but I am sending a hug from Georgia to wrap you in its warm embrace and let you know you are not alone. What you are feeling today is okay....and it will pass, I promise you that. We all go through days like this, and sometimes the only way to get through it is to let it run its course. Cry, hit something, stay in bed, do whatever YOU need to do. The sun will rise tomorrow, and things will get better.
Please know that you have a HUGE support group that loves you, and understands. Never be afraid to reach out, and never feel you are alone.
Hugs
You WILL feel better tomorrow. Cry it all out tonight and get some sleep.
((()))
JKS,
You are a beautiful person. I'm going to give you two assignments:
1) Whatever you're doing, stop, get outside and work up a sweat exercising -- I recognize that you're a lady so maybe perspire instead of sweat. I don't care how you do it, run, walk, bike whatever it takes
2) Pick a sympathetic friend who knows your sitch, call them and let everything out, don't hold anything back. Tell them you just want them to listen and be supportive, you're not looking for solutions
Do both of those before you go to bed tonight
Accuray
Wow, Accuray. I just walked in the door tonight and am just now reading what you wrote for me to do. I did those exact two things without even reading here first. (Great minds think alike! LOL!)
I went to a class at the gym. And then went to my brother's house and talked to his wife about everything. You were very right, it did make me feel better. I'm still crying but I'm better.
Thank you everyone for your kind words. I will be getting my kids tomorrow so I'll have more of a distraction then.
((jks ))
Sorry the last few days have been rough on U....but I think its part of the journey the ups and downs.
Enjoy your kids today.......and from what I can read...U are growing in leaps and bounds and unfortunately the feeling down is all a part of it
Just thinking of U
Cindy Lou
Also Fathers day hit me like a ton of bricks, My hubby and I werent blessed with children and its the 30th annivesary of no daddy in my life, and my fav person on Earth ...my father in law has been dead for 13 years........
It was a rough weekend for me also..but the sun does always come up, and if we are Lucky we get another chance to start all over again. Fortunately U dont have to start over......feeling like U did when U wrote that letter to your husband....remember this is a long journey....2 steps forward 1 step back.........hugs
Cindy Lou
JKS,
I agree with Accuray. You are a beautiful person.
Don’t allow someone to make you think otherwise based on them trying to justify their poor choices.
I specifically prayed for you and Alamo this morning. We care about you.
((( )))
LITB,
I was intrigued by your signature -- you reconciled two and a half years after the bomb? I read your first few original threads last night -- do you have a summary posted of your sitch? Your timeline might help newcomers with their expectations. Reading your thread you really seemed to do a great job with DB in a very difficult situation. Your threads that I read were like a suspense novel -- "No W, don't move to the town where OM lives and leave your kids behind! Bad idea!". I felt like someone yelling at a movie screen
Accuray
Accuray,
I replied to you in my thread.
JKS,
At the very beginning of my sitch, my sister recommended that I listen to KLOVE radio. It is a Contemporary Christian radio station that is positive and encouraging. You can stream it online. It helped me get through some very difficult days. I still listen it on most days.
Just a thought. Hope you are having a better day.
You all are so good to me... this morning was better.
I went to that same class at the gym again and then went to H's parent's house to pick up my kids. The class that I do at the gym is a power toning class and I absolutely love it. I can already see a difference in my legs and arms. I felt so good after the class that when I went to pick up the kids I was really happy. I had the biggest smile the entire time and it felt so good to kiss and hug my kids again.
H seemed happy too when he first saw me. He made a comment that I look skinnier. And I told him I was actually gaining weight. I'm 5'9" and during the time that I initially found out about H's PA I dropped down to 110 lbs. I haven't weighed that much since Jr. High. I'm now at 120 lbs. So I would say I look a lot healthier than I did before.
He seemed like he kept looking at me as I was talking with the kids and I thought he looked good too. I then got in my car and was looking at my phone because my friend had texted me. Basically, I was distracted as I left.
I was almost to the freeway and my D6 got really upset because she meant to bring a toy that she really wanted to play with and forgot it. I wasn't that far away so I told her I would turn around and get it. On the way driving back I called my friend that had texted me. I pulled back up to H's place and told her to go run in and get it.
When she came back, H followed her out holding a bottle of water and held it up motioning to me like, "do you want this?" I was on the phone still so I held up the one I already had in my car like "that's ok." Then he came and buckled D6 back in the car and at the same time my friend asked me what I was doing today.
I told her I was planning to take the kids to a splash pad and immediately D6 says, "where?" I told her and H was standing right there he didn't seem very happy. I could tell his demeanor had changed. But I just said, "see ya!" And left still talking on my phone.
I feel like I got my mojo back. Hopefully it's not short-lived.
LITB, I'm probably going to spend this week reading your sitch from start to finish. I have a feeling it will be very inspiring.
5'9" and 120 lbs.? you could model! your weight gain is probably muscle. it's heavier than fat. you sound as if you're in great shape. glad you're getting your confidence back!
Wow, jks, I'm the same height as you! But I only went down to 117 pounds. I'm up to 123 now and am thrilled. I am so glad you are gaining muscle! And getting your mojo back.
It sounds like H is liking the way you look. That's SO encouraging!
jks, are you doing okay tonight?
You mom is out of town, right?
Doing good, reachinghigher. Thanks so much for asking. I took the kids to get ice cream after dinner tonight and then we got in the hot tub. It was a relaxing evening just hangin with my kids. I now plan to put them to bed and read.
Have any of you heard of the book called "Real Love?" It's the one I'm on right now and it is quite the eye-opener. One of my sweet neighbor's from my old neighborhood ordered it for me and had it sent to my house. Such a sweet gesture. I miss my old neighborhood a lot sometimes. I had a lot of good people there supporting me.
And, yes, my mom and her H are out of town.
So H slept over at OW's last night. Why does "dating" OW mean having to have sleepovers with her?? Just seems so inappropriate to do while you're married to someone else.
My first instinct is to end this M. I feel like I want to go to OW's house myself and serve H divorce papers. I don't deserve this. I hate that staying in this makes me miserable and leaving it makes me miserable.
I really do believe that if I didn't have children with this man I would have filed so long ago. What am I holding on to? A marriage with someone who wishes they were with someone else?
Telling me that his family means more to him than anything else? Yet he continues to see this woman and do nothing to bring his family back together. All lies. I wish someone could just walk me in to the L's office and force me to file because I just CAN'T DO IT!!
Jks, I know it hurts ( same situation), it makes you burn with anger I know. Breathe and let it go......
You cant control him or his decisions. You can control yours only and right now you are on what might be the greatest journey of your life that will forever impact you and your children. Let go of his power to make you react emotionally right now. You have your kids with you. They Are so lucky to have a mature, strong ( and from you wrote before pretty buffed) mother that will always be fighting for them.
Its not right, its not fair, its mean and it hurts, but you are here for a reason. You will get out of the woods.
((( )))
jks, I'm so, so sorry that's so painful! And your mom gone, too!
bustingout seems like she has very good advice.
You are an incredibly strong woman! I know you don't feel like it right now! But you are holding on to home and heart despite wicked actions of others and desperate feelings in your heart.
My H said last night he couldn't do what I'm doing.
And I don't think I could do what you are doing, jks. My sitch is far easier than yours. Heck, it takes every ounce of strength and energy and love to be a mom to three little ones; but now you have to put up with all these problems with H and OW!!!
I just want you to know you are in my heart and prayers today. Just one foot in front of the other one. The children need you to be strong and you are. And you can continue to be! Keep on keeping on!!!
5'9" and 120 lbs.? you could model! your weight gain is probably muscle. it's heavier than fat. you sound as if you're in great shape. glad you're getting your confidence back!
Ha, ha... the weight gain is actually because I started eating again. I still don't eat a ton but when I found out about H's PA I couldn't eat anything for days. I looked ill. I didn't realize it until I had my picture taken with my sweet niece and when I looked at the picture more closely, I felt like I didn't recognize myself anymore.
So it kinda bugs that H thinks I look skinnier because my focus has been to gain weight and start looking healthy again. But whatev.
I called a L today to find out exactly how much it was going to be to file. $750. Which may be totally doable for me. (My mom may just help me out for the time being and then I'd pay her back if I end up getting a job or with any photography jobs that I get.) He was very helpful.
I then called H because I have no money and I had no idea if he was going to transfer money into my acct or not. So I asked him what his plans were moneywise. He said he was just trying to save up enough money to pay the guys he has coming over to the house to fix things.
He was VERY nice to me. He kept saying, how much do you need? I didn't really know and I felt bad. I was literally on the verge of telling him that I'm filing for D but when he's so nice to me its hard for me to go in that direction. How is this the same man that's sleeping with another woman?? I seriously do not understand how he can be so nice to me and give me money and act like nothing's wrong between us and then just continue on like he is.
We had some pauses in our conversation and I was kind of allowing it to see if he would bring anything up, but he didn't. He just asked questions about paying the bills since I was the one that used to do it all. I was happy and friendly throughout our conversation and I was the first to end it.
He kills me. I really had no idea how much I would fall for this man when I first met him in High School. It's so crazy to think back on those days and how innocent and naive we were.
Life goes on.
My kids told me tonight that they've seen my H kiss OW. I asked them how that made them feel. They said, sad. I told them that this is not what married people do. I don't want them to grow up thinking that this is ok and normal just because H is doing it openly for everyone to see.
I am soooooo angry right now!! I want to call him and scream at him.
I sound absolutely insane, don't I? I do not know how to "act as if" when this is so seriously wrong!!
Talk some sense into me... I am at my wits end....
try not to make H the bad guy with the kids.
i know this is a knife in the gut. i don't know what i would do with that news. it's better not to hear things like this.
(())
I don't know if this is the DB way to go, and am sure others will have much better advice, but maybe it's worth talking with H about some boundaries with kids and OW? they are still so little and it is confusing enough as it is.
Maybe something along the lines of no PDA in front of them ( I mean when they are with them his focus is on them anyway), because it confuses the children. If your H knew that it confuses them/makes them sad I am sure he would understand. I am sure he wouldn't want to make it harder on them than it already is.
Jks you know I Know how you are feeling. Its physically sickening and mind boggling. The.most.painful.thing.in.the.world
But we have to absorb much of that pain for our kids. In fact much of the time we have to act as if not just for our H's but for our children as well.
Face the mages in your head, feel the pain and disgust and let it go. Its not in your control right now.
(((( ))))) so many hugs right now
jks, I woke up in the middle of the night and checked my phone to see how you were. I just was clueless as to what to suggest for you. I can't imagine how painful your sitch is. So I couldn't respond to you.
I like the "suggesting boundaries" idea.
It's hard to think to suggest to tell someone else to hold on a little while longer. Because it's not me gong through your pain.
But it seems like if your H is such a nice guy, having the draw of three sweet children and a knockout wife with such a strong and sweet personality, that one day he'll wake up and come back! After all, he fell in love with you once, right?
Maybe you shouldn't decide to file, while under the influence of the (perfectly understandable) anger. Maybe just try to let it go a little bit. Get back to your "happy place".
Are you able to take the kids to a new place this weekend? A new park? A new playground? A new museum? Something different?
JKS,
You can make your H aware of it, however go in without any expectations. Remember that he is living in a fantasy and it is likely that he feels that your children will be fine.
I wouldn’t call it a boundary, because there isn’t a way to enforce it. It is something that is out of your control.
But it seems like if your H is such a nice guy, having the draw of three sweet children and a knockout wife with such a strong and sweet personality, that one day he'll wake up and come back! After all, he fell in love with you once, right?
Maybe you shouldn't decide to file, while under the influence of the (perfectly understandable) anger. Maybe just try to let it go a little bit. Get back to your "happy place".
This is great advice. You will find that with time, just like your H, your feelings will change. Unless an A is the so-called nail in the marital coffin, I would suggest to not make an emotional decision. If there is any doubt at all about filing, don’t do it.
Are you able to take the kids to a new place this weekend? A new park? A new playground? A new museum? Something different?
Great questions. Make new memories and start new traditions with your children. They will remember. It will help keep your mind busy doing great things.
Well, last night after my last post I had a serious need to call H and ask him what the hell is going on... I paced and paced back and forth. I tried so hard to overcome my anger. I have to admit, Accuray's words kept filling my head... "how can you get a handle on this?" I eventually went outside in my backyard and just balled and I started praying for comfort.
As I was staring into the night sky I was feeling so small in this universe. Like what I'm going through is so insignificant compared to the grand scheme of things. I'm just realizing that this is my trial and it's far from over. I have to endure. But I am preparing myself to really be done. I don't know much more that I can do.
I think what hurts the most is having him tell me the things he did and then sleep with her. I probably would have been much better off just not hearing those things at all. Because I would have already known and assumed that we were over. Him telling me that he's not really done with our M at all is just him handing out crumbs to me so I don't drift away.
I saw a video that his sister posted on FB from the relay that they ran over last weekend. It was a picture of his dad dancing on the side of the road. I could hear OW's voice in the background and H. It just made me see a different side. That H doesn't really care about what he's doing. He's enjoying his life and he isn't the person I thought he was. I didn't fall in love with the man he is right now. She can have the man he is right now, because it is not attractive.
They are gross and I actually am embarrassed that he's really so ok with openly dating her like he is while he's still so obviously married. He is going to look back on this time and think how dumb he was to think what he's doing is fun and is going to make him happy.
He really has changed a lot more than I ever thought. And he always mentioned how he felt like he could never be himself around me. That is sad. I guess I always just held him on a pedestal and saw the best in him. But more and more that facade of who I thought he was is diminishing.
I guess, in my own way this is detaching. If I could see the interactions of H and OW together more... I'm pretty sure I would be over him so quickly. It's such a turn off to witness someone doing this kind of behavior.
Will the man I know ever come back? Was he ever the man I thought he was? I have no idea anymore...
JKS,
This situation is horribly difficult. When you're thinking of filing for D, what are you looking for? Really it may not change your sitch for the better at all, but I'm curious what you're looking to get out of it. If you're looking for closure, I don't know that a finalized D will deliver that for you, as closure is really a state of mind. If you're looking for a reaction from H, he may not react the way you want him to and then what have you gained? I'm not saying not to file, I just want to make sure it's going to accomplish whatever goal you have in mind.
WRT the kids and your finances, one idea would be to start preparing for the long haul -- which is to say recognize that you could be in this limbo situation for quite a while. Two things to think about:
1) It's not doing you or H any good to be "winging it" on the finances from month to month, because it forces uncomfortable conversation and precludes your ability to detach. One suggestion would be to come up with a budget of what you will need to cover expenses, kids, support for you, etc. and get him to agree on a monthly or twice monthly deposit into your account. You'll then agree that if things come up over the top of that, you'll discuss them. I think you should look to get into a situation where you have a direct deposit hitting your account, you know how much it will be, so you don't have the stress of running out of money to deal with.
2) WRT the kids, it's tough, because asking for no PDA on the kids behalf can just seem like complaining/controlling versus truly looking out for their welfare. I know you really ARE looking out for their welfare, but the issue is that you can't enforce that, and H needs to "buy in" to make it happen. One suggestion would be to have a meeting with a family therapist. Explain the situation and tell them you want what's best for the kids. They will probably suggest rules for handoffs, PDA, etc. etc., and the rules will be bilateral, which is to say that if you start seeing someone you'll follow the same rules. This may work well because it's an independent 3rd party, and a neutral authority figure. Unfortunately meeting with a family therapist costs money, but once again you take stress out of the situation for yourself.
Since this might be a while, I'd spend some time writing down the stress-inducing issues related to H and the kids, and see if you can come up with repeatable long term plans for each so that at least you have consistency to rely upon from week to week.
There's a book called "Controlled Separation" you might want to look up -- it has templates and suggestions for things you should discuss, and agreements you should put in place.
I'm sure that the uncertainty of the situation is causing all kinds of stress, so let's remove some of the uncertainty -- there's enough stress without all that!
Accuray
I'm probably not going to say anything to H, btw. You would think he would know better and if anything my kids will probably say something because we talked about it. I don't even want to go there with him right now. It would just turn ugly because I get so emotional about it.
JKS,
This situation is horribly difficult. When you're thinking of filing for D, what are you looking for? Really it may not change your sitch for the better at all, but I'm curious what you're looking to get out of it. If you're looking for closure, I don't know that a finalized D will deliver that for you, as closure is really a state of mind. If you're looking for a reaction from H, he may not react the way you want him to and then what have you gained? I'm not saying not to file, I just want to make sure it's going to accomplish whatever goal you have in mind.
Accuray
I know that if we were D'd I would definitely look at the situation differently. The reminder that we're still married and, oh, yeah, H still wants to be married while he dates his girlfriend is just so confusing to me. I don't get it. I don't know how to just be here and let it be.
It just feels like something needs to happen in order for things to progress. I would never file in hopes that H would change his mind and leave her. Because deep down, I think he really wants to choose her. (I mean, he already has.) But he doesn't have the balls to do it.
I feel guilty hanging out with other guys because I morally don't feel good about that decision. But I would like not to care. If I were D'd, I wouldn't care. It gives me a way to move on.
I know that if we were D'd I would definitely look at the situation differently.
How would you look at it differently, and are you sure?
I feel guilty hanging out with other guys because I morally don't feel good about that decision. But I would like not to care. If I were D'd, I wouldn't care. It gives me a way to move on.
D is just a piece of paper. Could you gain the same freedom to date other guys and move on with a separation agreement that stipulates that you can date other people? If it's a separation agreement that H signs does that give you the freedom you need?
You took marriage vows, and those mean something to you.
Now you feel trapped because you still feel an obligation to honor your vows, but are getting none of the benefits associated with doing so. In fact, it's holding you back from getting your emotional needs met -- H won't meet them, but you can't expect anyone else to meet them either as long as you are married to H.
One could argue that when H left the marriage to start a relationship with OW, he released you from any obligation to honor your vows yourself.
Yet at the same time, you've chosen to remain faithful to your vows.
Is "D" the only thing that will release you from this obligation in your mind? Would a separation agreement suffice?
Accuray
Is "D" the only thing that will release you from this obligation in your mind? Would a separation agreement suffice?
Accuray
Honestly, I would have to speak to my Bishop at my church to know whether that would be "acceptable." But, really, what's the point of getting a separation agreement? I'm not asking to be mean... I'm genuinely asking because I don't understand what the purpose of it is.
Wouldn't it just make more sense to get a D and get it over with? A separation agreement just seems like it would prolong the situation and basically I'm saying, "H, I'm ok with you dating your girlfriend... so have at it."
If I was really at a point to say that, then my M would be REALLY over.
I texted H about a half hour ago about possibly seeing a family therapist together to know how to better handle this situation for our kids. He usually responds right away. I'm guessing he's not down with it.
Actually he just responded and said that he thinks it would be a good idea.
The difference between a D and a separation agreement is that a D is an official legal ending of the marriage and therefore requires legal representation. Once its done its terms are final. Its expensive to do and the flexibility is limited. Some things cannot be addressed in that context.
A separation agreement need only be as formal as you want to make it, the scope can include whatever you want, and you can mutually agree to change it if it doesn't work out.
In a separation agreement you can stipulate that neither party will take the kids skydiving or riding on the back of a motorcycle. Divorce usually wouldn't cover that. You can cover financial arrangements etc. You can include your right to date other people, PDA in front of the kids etc or don't include that at all.
The point is that you're agreeing on some rules for how things will work while separated, that doesn't imply that you endorse anything he is doing.
Glad to hear he agreed about the family therapist -- I strongly suggest you make the selection and meet with them yourself first to ensure you're on board with what they will recommend.
Accuray
I know that if we were D'd I would definitely look at the situation differently.
How would you look at it differently, and are you sure?
Accuray
I could let go. I wouldn't be holding on. It's like, him holding on is making me hold on. Someone needs to drop the rope. I can't do that while married. I don't know how.
I will constantly be offended by his actions because I know he knows better. And he's said things to me that prove he knows better. He knows he's messed up and he realizes that his family is important, yet, she is the better choice.
Can I just ask you, Accuray... what would you do if you were me? Do you really think I need to give it more time?
Can I just ask you, Accuray... what would you do if you were me? Do you really think I need to give it more time?
JKS, there's no way I can answer that for you. I'm happy to support you in whatever you decide.
That might seem like a cop-out to you, but there's no way I can understand what you're going through or the pain you are in and having to endure week to week. For me to tell you to give it more time would be irresponsible -- it's easy for me to say that because I don't have to live with the pain of doing so. I can empathize with your situation, and I understand SOME of the associated pain, but I have not walked in your shoes -- my kids are older, I work full time, my W didn't move in with OM, etc. etc.
All I can say is to make the decision for you, without worrying about what anyone will think, because no matter what you decide they will accept it -- they'll have to, and things WILL get better.
The other thing I'll say is that our emotions tend to ride the rollercoaster. Some days we'll think we're going to be fine and we're ready to take on the world, other days the sky is falling and it feels like a catastrophe. On those painful days we're often tempted to make radical changes to try to stop the pain. If you agree with this, then whatever you decide, give yourself a week, a month, whatever so that you make sure to consider your decision in both a peak and a valley, you don't want to look back with regret and think that you were hasty because you were at a low.
I spent some time reading LITB's story from the beginning, you might want to do that. His W left him with his kids and moved 1,100 miles away to be with OM. It took about 18 months before that burned out and she decided she's like to reconcile, but from my read she didn't reconsider until he had dropped the rope completely. Then she started to see him in a new light. Read his story if you have time.
Sorry I can't be more helpful on this one!
Accuray
I wish you could, Accuray, 'cause I was going to ask next...
I'm still working on what I should do! I wish I had my own sitch figured out
It's that time of night, jks.
I'm thinkin' about you and wondering how you are hangin' in there.
You are so sweet. It really is so good to know that someone out there cares. What a gem you are!
I don't have much to report. Only that H agreed to meet with a family therapist on Monday with me. This should be interesting. When I spoke with the therapist on the phone today, I asked him some questions about what he goes over in his sessions that are of this nature.
He said that he tries to address two things... 1) the feelings and direction of how the R is going and 2) what types of things can really affect the kids in a negative way throughout our separation and ultimately if we D.
I told him at this point, I feel like H is in a bad place where he's pursuing a R with another woman and he's confused. I made it clear to him that I do not want to discuss our R. I don't want H focusing on how he's feeling about me right now and having to talk about it. It would probably all be things I don't really want to hear right now anyway. I want the session to be mainly focused on the things we should try to avoid saying and doing while we're with our kids.
He said, I can very much respect that and would handle the session any way you feel comfortable right now. He has been used by several of my old neighbors and they have all loved him. I hope this will be a positive step.
S4 kept telling me at random times throughout the day today that he wished he never met daddy. I said, why? He said because he never wants to live with us. I told him, he may want to someday. We still don't know. After reflecting on that, I feel like I should have said, he doesn't want to live with mommy, but he will always want to live with you. I will probably be saying that to him tomorrow if he brings it up again. Which I'm thinking he will. It's obviously on his mind a lot. Breaks my heart. He is such a sweet little boy. I hate to see him have to go through this.
Reachinghigher, I read your thread today and can see some similarities in how we're feeling. H gave me the same speech about never seeing a future with me. But time and time again he just can't seem to let go, just as your H is doing as well. I really would love to get through this year.
More than anything right now...
jks, the therapist and your goals going into family therapy sound very balanced. I remember you said one of the "old neighbors" gave you a book you liked. It sounds like you value their opinion in the R area. It's so good to have that support.
Tough with S4's feelings. I remember when each of my boys were age 4 I was head-over-heels in love with them (still am--but now feel proud of them, as well as love). It hurts so much when they hurt. And your S4 is too little to understand.
Your children have you. You are always there for them, physically, emotionally. And they have your mom, assuming she's a rock like you are.
I think if S4 always has you, he'll be ok. He knows daddy loves him, right? Little boys can get some crazy ideas about all kinds of things as they sort their world out! My boys sometimes tell me "I used to think such-and-such when I was little" and it really surprises me.
We can get through this year, jks. We have support and advice and a place to rant -- here. We can do it! One day at a time. We are learning, growing. For ourselves. For our children. And for our H's, should they choose to come back.
Btw, Accuray, I know it isn't fair for me to put my decision on you. FWIW, I really value your opinion. However, I just get to the point sometimes where I want someone else to make the decision for me because I constantly feel so lost. That is part of my growing process, I suppose.
I really hope you're able to get answers soon with your sitch. You truly deserve to be happy in your M. Thank you for the continued advice.
My pleasure JKS, you deserve happiness as well. You really have been holding up remarkably well, I honestly admire your strength. I truly hope H comes around sooner rather than later.
Accuray
jks, i'm a little late to this thread, but my feelings mirror yours so closely. my H isn't and hasn't had a PA, but our mindsets are so similar. (i bawled my eyes out when i read about you watching We Bought A Zoo. I just watched that for the second time last week and felt exactly the same way).
i'm pulling for you.
jks, it's Sunday. Are you alone? Are you doing okay?
jks, it's Sunday. Are you alone? Are you doing okay?
Doing good, reachinghigher. How are you?
Yes, I am alone. I had plans to go to an Art's Festival with my SIL but she cancelled last minute because she felt like it was too hot outside. Kinda bummed because it would have been nice to get out but I've also been fine staying home.
H came to pick up the kids this afternoon and it was pretty much the same as always. I actually felt very pretty and I didn't think H looked that great... awful to say huh. Its just that when he shaves his face completely there's something about it that turns me off. I've always been attracted to scruff/facial hair.
It sounds so silly but when he started the police dept that was one of the first things that had to go. I was really bummed about it. He always had it, even in High School so it was a really weird adjustment and I've never really liked him without it. (Kind of petty, I know.) So within the last year, his job has been more lax on him having to shave because he works in a different dept.
This has bugged me so much because its like now that he's NOT with me, he gets to look amazing again for OW. Perfect. But, obviously, today was a different story. Helps me remember, once again, he's not perfect and there were things that turned me off about him. Every little bit helps, I guess. LOL!
I'm trying to remember that throughout this M I have not made things easy for H. I have not been easy to live with and easy to love. But he did stick by my side for a very long time. So I intend to do the same. I need to remember this. Even though he is making bad choices and they hurt me greatly, I know he has to go through this journey in order to find himself. I cannot give up just because its hard for me right now. (Although, I want to A LOT, sometimes.)
I can do hard things.
jks, I like you are back to your good attitude.
I posted about my sitch today (spinning my wheels). I'll probably start a new thread soon. I'm thinking of calling it, "in it for the long haul" or something along those lines.
You made me laugh about the facial hair thing. I don't think it's petty AT ALL!
I also love the scruffy & super short beard look!
I LOVE that you felt very pretty today. That is so fun for a woman! Combine feeling very pretty with a great attitude and a smile and you get POWERFUL!
I also agree with the commitment to our H's. I am ashamed often when I think of the shabby way I've treated him or rude things I've said in the past. It honestly never crossed my mind he would leave me!
I guess that's something good that will come out of this pain. We will never look at M the same way again, I guess is a way to put it.
Keep up the good work. I see the comments sometimes you put on other people's threads and they are always thought-provoking & encouraging!
You inspire me jks, I was away for the weekend with S11 and D7, W stayed home with D13. From the moment I got in the door tonight I felt like she was barely tolerating me and that's so hard to take. Its rough to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you. I also sometimes feel like giving up and your words were just what I needed tonight. Thanks for that!
(I have a short beard, glad to hear that's a popular option!)
Accuray
You inspire me jks, I was away for the weekend with S11 and D7, W stayed home with D13. From the moment I got in the door tonight I felt like she was barely tolerating me and that's so hard to take. Its rough to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you. I also sometimes feel like giving up and your words were just what I needed tonight. Thanks for that!
(I have a short beard, glad to hear that's a popular option!)
Accuray
Wow, Accuray. That means a lot coming from you. So sorry to hear about your sitch.
I think I remember your beard from your picture? Right? It was a long time ago that I saw it.
But, yes, it definitely is a good thing on men from my POV.
Question: So H ordered me a tail light for my car because mine was broken. My mom's H didn't have time to install it on my car before he left for his trip. My car's registration expired in May and I have to have the new tail light on in order to pass inspection to get registered.
My question is... should I ask H to do it for me? I know nothing about cars and I need to get my car registered soon. My mom and her H won't be back for two more weeks.
I would. Men like to help at that kind of stuff.
jks,
I would look for others to help you out. I wouldn't give your H the satisfaction of helping you.
What exactly do you need to do with the taillight? Is it just a burned out bulb or is it a replacement of the entire taillight?
I am sure there are enough people on this forum that can walk you through it, plus you get the satisfaction of doing it yourself.
You are an adult with internet access. Google it. You're a big girl.
You are an adult with internet access. Google it. You're a big girl.
Ha! Seriously didn't even think to google it. I don't know why, I google everything else. Thanks, oldtimer... I will be doing it on my own.
Accuray, you said that group on FB was still there? I was wondering how one would be able to join such a group?
I have not been easy to live with and easy to love. But he did stick by my side for a very long time. So I intend to do the same. I need to remember this. Even though he is making bad choices and they hurt me greatly, I know he has to go through this journey in order to find himself.
Hi jks, it's good to see you back to your positive self. You inspire so many on this board.
I love what you said here above. Again another inspirational and motivational POV that I will subscribe to.
Good luck with tail light. How cool to do it yourself.
:-)
Ok, what a crazy, crazy night. I went to our therapist appt and had no idea what to expect. H and I sat in the waiting room together alone and chatted for bit before we went in.
Wow, were we in for a rude awakening. The therapist asked us if we had anything we wanted to say before he got started and I just mentioned that the reason I wanted to do this is because neither one of us has gone through this before and we both don't want to say or do things that will negatively affect our kids. And I want us to both be able to be honest about what our concerns are and I want to hear what type of guidance he may have for us.
So he starts going over all of these awful statistics about children with D'd parents. I mean, it was A LOT of negative things. From being sexually abused to becoming a juvenile delinquent to committing suicide. It was awful to hear.
After he read off all of these statistics he said, so you want to know the best thing you can do for your kids? You can work on your M. I know the two of you loved each other at one point, enough to have children together, and from my POV the biggest reason couples fall apart like this is because of lack of communication.
My H started nodding his head in agreement. The therapist then said, so we work on the communication and we work on this M. And that's how you make things better for your children.
I was in tears. I felt like my H was just hit with several 2x4's and it was exactly what he needed to hear... I just didn't know if it was too much. He then said, so let's meet again next week... you guys think about it and then we'll decide where we're going to go from there. I started to chuckle. Like it's really going to be that easy for my H to just make up his mind in a week when its taken him 10 months to get to this point.
We then walked out together and my H said, what's on your mind? I said, a lot of things... what's on your mind? This started an hour long conversation where H basically told me that he is really trying to find the best way to end things with OW. He feels emotionally connected to her and has a hard time just cutting it off. (Nice Guy Syndrome) But he knows that he wants to move towards making our M work.
I told him that I just don't understand why if you think that you don't want to be with her and you're trying to end it, but you still continue to sleep with her? He said, it's because at times I still think that maybe it is what I want. I'm not just sleeping with her to sleep with her. I do care for her.
But hearing those things tonight, he said, he needed to hear it. He says he keeps telling himself that HIS kids will never be part of those statistics because he will always be here to protect them but, really, he's already exposing them to so many of the things the Therapist was talking about. And he realizes that now.
He said the other day, his aunt and uncle came over and OW was over at his house and he was kind of ashamed of her. He said, that is just proving to me that I'm not proud of her and what we're doing. Plus, I walk around my parent's house and see all these pictures of you and I together and it just reminds me that you are still a part of me. A huge part of me and I'm not ready to let that go.
He said, one thing I've always been concerned about, though, is that we will never work because I've messed things up between us so much and that you may never really be able to forgive me. I told him, if I didn't think that I could forgive him, I would have been gone a long time ago.
I also told him that the more he continues on with her, though, the more it pushes me towards anger and resentment and wanting to file. I told him that everyone we know is telling me to just end it. What am I doing waiting around for him? And I told him, because I think you're amazing. I stick up for you and tell people that you're a good person. You're making bad decisions right now but you are still a good person. He said, I don't feel like a good person and he started to cry.
I told him, you are. You went through so much with me and you were there for me when I was awful to you and I feel like now it's my turn. I hate that this happened but I will stand by your side because I believe in us. I always have. And our family is so much more important than all of this crap. He agreed.
He said he felt so much better about our situation just from having that talk and knowing that I could really forgive him. He has been really worried about that.
I told him that I did not like myself before, but I like myself now. He said, I can tell. You have this confidence about you. You seem so much more put together. He noticed that I look more in shape too, which he liked. I told him that it was sad that something like this had to happen in order for me to wake up and start living.
Our conversation was light for a little bit and we laughed together and just caught up on things that have been going on with each other. He said, I like this. I told him that I missed him and he said that he missed me too. He honestly could not stop hugging me tonight. It was crazy. He also seemed like he didn't really want to leave. At one point he said, I feel like things are about to get really good.
Before I left, I said, I feel like I just have more questions... he said, ok, what about? I hesitated because I didn't want to ruin the moment of us having a good conversation but my stomach was starting to feel sick again because I still got the feeling that he wasn't absolutely sure this is what he wanted. I told him I didn't want to get my hopes up because he's done this to me before.
He said, I understand. Just know that things are moving in that direction. So as I was driving home he texted me and said that he had just had quite the conversation with OW and she's pretty upset... babysteps. I asked him what he said to her... and he said, that I miss you. And I can't keep doing this to my family. That I can't keep seeing her the way that I am.
I then said, I feel like she's going to hold on for dear life... which scares me. He said, well this was a huge step for me so let's take it a little at a time.
I did not respond. Seriously, if this is going to take another month... he is asking A LOT of me... do you agree? This is absolute madness. I'm trying to understand this from his POV but, my gosh, how long can he string me along for?
Things have definitely progressed in a positive direction and it felt very different with him tonight. He seemed attracted to me. He did tell me at one point that I was very sexy. I don't know... I will continue on with no contact, once again, until he pulls his head out of his butt.
Wow... am I the best W in the world or what?? LOL! Total joke...
Wow jks, talk about an unexpected evening!
Don't worry yet about whether this will take another month , etc.
While a baby step, it is a big one for your H. Its not time to Push. Get a feel for things, see what his real intentions are before thinking he is stringing you along. Becaue he very well might not be...he had a conversation with her. He took the baby step.
I know you will get much better advice from others but I just wanted to say that.
Am very happy for you jks. Sending you a big big hug!!! ((( )))
jks, i'm so happy for you. you've come so far. you haven't come this far to go backwards.
don't focus on him and what he needs to do. keep the focus on what you've learned and how you have more "confidence", you "like" yourself more now, you're "put together", etc.
use what you've learned for this cruical time in your sitch. show more of what you've been practicing...patience.
hold on to your goal. you are amazing!
JKS,
Wow! That wasn't what I expected to happen with a family therapist. It sounds like he did mainly MC with you. There's always a risk that if the MC makes the WAS the bad guy during the first session, the WAS just won't come back. We'll have to see what next week brings.
As you point out, H has said these things before. I would honestly try not to make yourself too available to him. You don't want to be that insurance policy on the shelf!
I am glad that you got some quality time with H, and that he made you feel better. That relief is well deserved, but please don't get your hopes up until OW is completely gone and he's agreed to "no contact", because that's really what it takes. "No contact" is so important, even if it requires changing jobs. It requires "extraordinary measures" to end that relationship and H needs to get to a place where he wants to take them.
Happy for you JKS, did the therapist at least give you some guidance for what to do/say/not do/not say with the kids in the meantime?
I haven't forgotten your alt request, I'll figure that out.
Accuray
JKS,
What you experienced last night was an extreme case of emotions. PLease be very carefulwith what your H
says to you.
I do think your H is very confused at the present time. He is making excuses why he can't come back:
He said, one thing I've always been concerned about, though, is that we will never work because I've messed things up between us so much and that you may never really be able to forgive me. I told him, if I didn't think that I could forgive him, I would have been gone a long time ago.
Reality is setting in on him. Imagine what the reality of you filing for D will have on him?
I told him that I did not like myself before, but I like myself now. He said, I can tell. You have this confidence about you. You seem so much more put together. He noticed that I look more in shape too, which he liked. I told him that it was sad that something like this had to happen in order for me to wake up and start living.
Isn't it amazing when we feel good about ourselves other people notice it? keep up the good work here.
Things have definitely progressed in a positive direction and it felt very different with him tonight. He seemed attracted to me. He did tell me at one point that I was very sexy. I don't know... I will continue on with no contact, once again, until he pulls his head out of his butt.
Agreed.
May I suggest if you go to FC again to keep it about the kids? until he has no contact with OW you really can't begin to work on the new M.
JKS,
do you know what it will take from him for YOU to commit to the R?
Focus on what it will take for the M to work, not on the ramifications of you two being together.
gr8
Keep on your course, jks.
JKS,
It is not WAS's job to protect you emotionally. NEITHER of you know how things will work out. Don't look for a guarantee from him now.
CHOOSE to accept the emotional risks for the possible gains. OWN THEM.
No matter what happens:
(1) H will be all over the place. H will backslide with OW multiple times.
(2) You will be all over the place.
(3) The ONLY way that things will work out well in the long run is if you BOTH know for DAMN sure that it was H's choice to dump OW and return to you. Everytime you pressure him and seek guarantees, you lessen the likelihood of that happening.
Give H space. Don't reinsert yourself into an R unless you are comfortable with the level of honesty and emotional risks involved.
Guarantees and reassurances now are meaningless. You wouldn't ask a first date for a promise ring before accepting the date. Stop trying to do the same thing to H.
The difference between a D and a separation agreement is that a D is an official legal ending of the marriage and therefore requires legal representation. Once its done its terms are final. Its expensive to do and the flexibility is limited. Some things cannot be addressed in that context.
A separation agreement need only be as formal as you want to make it, the scope can include whatever you want, and you can mutually agree to change it if it doesn't work out.
In a separation agreement you can stipulate that neither party will take the kids skydiving or riding on the back of a motorcycle. Divorce usually wouldn't cover that. You can cover financial arrangements etc. You can include your right to date other people, PDA in front of the kids etc or don't include that at all.
The point is that you're agreeing on some rules for how things will work while separated, that doesn't imply that you endorse anything he is doing.
Glad to hear he agreed about the family therapist -- I strongly suggest you make the selection and meet with them yourself first to ensure you're on board with what they will recommend.
Accuray
States vary so ask a lawyer, but Accuray makes some nice clear points.
In my case I went to file but my lawyer (who became a friend) suggested a sep instead, b/c it would achieve my main goal at the time. My main goal at that time was to protect our assets b/c h was behaving so oddly and worshipped his heroes on the tundra. I feared he'd mortgage our home to "invest" in their business venture and to this day I believe he would have.
The heroes are being sued now as their venture was a Ponzi scheme. I thought it was but when I pointed it out to h, he said I was being negative, and blew off my counsel. I am sure I was being negative and biased but I was also correct.
2 years ago h mentioned that it's a "good thing WE did not invest w/them" as if he had no idea why "WE" could not...
I didn't bother correcting him b/c there's no point AND thank God he's grateful for the choice made, regardless of how or why it was made.
But MY POINT HERE
is that a separation can achieve some goals and protect you. Depends on your state too.
My lawyer said "I would not file for div if I were you b/c I think you two have something that's not over yet.
Just do what you have to do to protect your marital assets and the kids, and see where this goes."
Also, fwiw, in this state, 1/3 of divorces that get filed, are never completed. They get dismissed....
I have more to say but wanted to chime in on this note b/c I think a lot of folks wonder about sep vs divorce.
The funny thing is... giving H space is so much easier now because I feel like I've been doing it for so long that it's now just a natural tendency. I have no desire to do things with him or plan for the future until he does make the actions to end his R with OW HIMSELF. I will not continue to pressure him to do so.
I did tell him last night that I don't want him coming back because of guilt. I want him to want to come back. He expressed to me that his situation with OW is just not a good one. It started from a bad place and he knows it really can't amount to anything good. He was really happy that the therapist said the things he said because he knows he needed to hear it. He said he was glad he came.
I am not going to pursue any longer. I want this man to work for me. I feel like I am a damn fine catch and he really is losing something wonderful, including a wonderful connection, in me that he will always regret if he truly chooses OW over me. He is a good man. I felt like I could see into his soul last night. We stared at each other for a long time. There's a lot to be said in just staring into a person's eyes. There's an energy that runs between the two of you that is undeniable.
I love the advice I'm getting here. I will take it in wholeheartedly. I know I have come so far and I plan to continue to be patient. My family is worth it.
JKS,
As you've had time to digest the other night and the feedback received how are you feeling? Have you been able to stay no contact and avoid R talk? You can friend "DB Buddy". I do think that 25 will serve you well as your mentor -- youve also picked up some feedback from some other great vets lately. I hope the new input helps as you are definitely back on the emotional rollercoaster after that session.
Accuray
JKS,
As you've had time to digest the other night and the feedback received how are you feeling? Have you been able to stay no contact and avoid R talk? You can friend "DB Buddy". I do think that 25 will serve you well as your mentor -- youve also picked up some feedback from some other great vets lately. I hope the new input helps as you are definitely back on the emotional rollercoaster after that session.
Accuray
Accuray, I have to say that you have been one of my biggest strengths throughout this journey. You really have no idea how much you have affected my life and given me some of the best perspectives as I've struggled so much to figure out which way is up. I value so much the time and effort you have put in so freely offering me your wisdom and advice. Just had to tell you that.
As for my feelings of last night. There were so many positives from it that I'm looking at it as a babystep in the right direction. Just like I had said before, being in someone's presence and feeling their energy says a whole lot about a connection that two people share. I felt a lot of that and I know my H felt it too in addition to the conversation we had.
I am not having a need to contact H about our R. I feel like he knows where I stand and he knows what he needs to do. It's just a matter of him being able to follow through with it. Does he want this M to work enough? That is the question. I get that he can be saying a lot of these things but he is definitely going to have back up what he's saying by his actions.
I felt very much that H instigated our R talk last night. I was going to keep quiet. I knew he wanted to know what was on my mind and he was happy to talk about it. This is a huge change on his part. Coming from someone that has a huge problem with sharing feelings and being open with me about what is going on.
I am taking it for what it is. I know he hasn't agreed to reconcile or anything but I'm happy to know that he's seeing the changes in me. It makes me feel like he really isn't saying these things out of guilt. I think he really sees me differently now.
I love what DBing stands for and how much it has changed me from within. I still don't proclaim to be perfect at it. But I feel like I understand the concept completely. Work on yourself from within to find your own self worth and your life will start to fall into place as it should.
The best thing that could have ever come out of this is that I LOVE MYSELF!!! I truly do. It makes me cry just thinking about it. I have struggled with my self-worth for so long and I'm so happy to finally be able to see the beauty and strength from within me.
Wow...
The best thing that could have ever come out of this is that I LOVE MYSELF!!! I truly do. It makes me cry just thinking about it. I have struggled with my self-worth for so long and I'm so happy to finally be able to see the beauty and strength from within me.
Wow...
Love this, JKS. Congrats! I have been following your journey and am so impressed with your wisdom and growth. ((( )))
Love this, JKS. Congrats! I have been following your journey and am so impressed with your wisdom and growth. ((( )))
Thank you, needgrace. That means a lot. Hugs to you too!!!
JKS
you asked me to mentor the sitch and I'm guessing this is the place to do it since you gave me this link.
But I think your thread will lock up soon. I read this whole thread (16 pages) but I know there's more. And I'll get to it.
Here are some observations I feel comfortable making for now.
But correct me if I'm off track or not recapping accurately, b/c only you know if this is on target.
Your marriage had problems before OW. Per your description, YOU were a huge part of why things got bad. In fact, per you, the single biggest factor in the deterioration of things was how you handled life in general.
I cannot find a specific reason for your sadness and anger but unless it's h's fault, I think it's more or less irrelevant. Except that you needed to work on it and I'm so glad you did. Kudos to you for digging deep and working on YOU.
So, Your h did his "job" as father and husband as well as he could, but he did yours too.
You were depressed and overwhelmed and your "condition" or selfishness or laziness or low thyroid or whatever it was, went untreated for a long time, as in, years. Presumably he had a lot of unmet needs.
HE covered for you, and apparently for years, he forgave you.
NOW he's with OW but he's confused AND admits it.
Unlike some PAs around here, he's NOT claiming OW is his "soulmate" or that you are evil.
He's not justifying his choice to leave you.
and thankfully you are not fueling his negative images, which led him to leave in the first place. This is extremely good news.
Also thankfully, you are not pretending you played no role in getting him into OW's arms. (Also good news as two big points have already been made that we don't have to spend time belaboring.)
Your h said a LOT of great things right after the t meeting. But it was right after a therapist spoke about the negatives of divorce. BTW I cannot imagine having a t say a better speech than yours did....(YAY!)
Afterwards your h said nearly all that he could say to make it a nearly perfect event. He did not say "I'm leaving her NOW" which would have been perfect although too sudden to trust, and that's why it's pretty close to perfect. I mean, if he had left her then and there, would you have really felt it was his choice versus guilt?
What struck ME the most about what he said, was that he believed you could not forgive him for the affair.
This is huge. There are many WASs, in my opinion, who would consider or who want to come home
but they don't....b/c they don't believe the LBSer will truly forgive them. (OFTEN they are right).
The WAS thinks/fears that the LBSer will hold the affair over their head like the sword of Damacles or throw it in their face every time there's a fight. IF that happens then the marriage is doomed EVEN IF IT "LASTS" b/c then the worst of all choices has been made..."staying married and staying miserable" is not what's best for your kids.
But your growth, if it's maintained, will help him with his and THAT could give your kids a legacy of commitment, forgiveness and redemption.
There will be conflicts ahead in all marriages so don't pretend you won't be tempted...you will be *(and so will he) so you'll need tools to cope with those matters.
There's also a tendency for the LBSer, in piecing, to feel "entitled" to get their way b/c after all, THEY took the WAS back and they forgave.
But don't forget, your h has a lot of forgiving to do too. You both do. That means once you begin piecing, you don't bring up the affair or any other past misdeeds again...ever. The past has passed.
There will be some "trust issues" that you can work on without throwing it in their face and if you are in a bad mood, he's not supposed to say "Oh no, not THAT again", etc.
Do you understand this? It goes both ways.
If you tell him that in order to regain your trust he has to climb Mt Everest but even then it might not be enough for you OR maybe you'll change your mind and move the line in the sand, again, he'll probably bolt. (Who wouldn't?)
So whatever you mean by saying he'll "have to work" to get you back, be clear that if and when he does this "work" (which I would prefer calling a "labor of love" b/c it's not about him suffering or digging a ditch...right???)
you'll welcome him back with open arms.
You won't stand there w/your arms crossed over your chest still making new demands of him proving his love for you...b/c YOU don't feel secure enough.
make sense?
You mentioned the "value of long suffering" in an earlier post. Maybe it's semantics but none of us are here to become martyrs. If you "value" it I hope that does not mean you think you deserve to suffer OR that your h does.
It's not our job as spouses to make them pay or to "teach them a lesson" or "show them the consequences" of their choices. As my DB coach said, "Life does that to them" and I can tell your h already feels it.
If you want your family back and you want to be married to THIS man, you must accept the past and let go of it, just as he has to.
Focus on the part of the vows that say "From this day forward" b/c I think they are crucial.
Neither of you will ever view your marital history identically anyhow. Heck, witnesses to car accidents can't agree on what they saw, so when 2 emotionally involved folks are asked to recite what happened, AND WHY, they rarely see it the same way.
I had to let go of the concept that my h and I would agree on how we got where we were. I had to let go of the idea that to be together we'd have to agree on our past...
I spent a lot of time, while we were apart, on verbalizing the letting go b/c as an exercise it helped me. Meaning--you asked "how"--
I'd say "God, I turn my pain/anger over to you" and I'd say this in the shower so the kids didn't think I was nuts. I said it A LOT. (Found it in a book by Marianne Williamson, who is too new agey for some but her forgiveness work was VERY helpful to me)
Anyhow, Thinking it, saying it out loud and hearing it, all help it sink in.
At times I turned my marriage over to God too. I had to. It was too much for me to grasp and carry and have all the answers for. And it helped me not "lose it" in front of h. My anger at my h did NOT help me or our marriage at all.
He too felt it was too much for me to get past so there were times he felt like giving up b/c after all, what's the point?
I doubt your h will come home b/c of guilt. A conscience isn't the same thing as guilt, imo. But the fact he said he was ashamed of OW says a lot.
His family is trying to "support" him and I know that hurts you.
But I've been a sister to a brother who did this and I told him in private what I thought. But I also was not going to make a scene at holiday or family functions b/c I did not approve of his choices. I am his sister, not his judge.
Condemning him does no one any good. You don't know what they've privately said or thought.
So let's focus on what we CAN know or do...= YOU and your work.
Were your relationships with his family good before all this, or did they believe you mistreated him?
As much as you say people tell YOU to divorce him these days, might he be able to say the same about the situation in the past?
I mean, if you were the big sad drag you describe yourself as being, might HE have heard those same words at times?
Just food for thought...
SIDENOTE--
You hit the nail on the head when you realized in the grand scheme of things how lucky we are. This is key to making it thru our dark nights...
No one is shooting at us or raping us or kidnapping our son's to be soldiers in their "army". That is happening now, as you read this, to someone else.
We have shelter. A bad storm won't cave in our "home".
We have food and it's in our ELECTRIC refrigerators....we HAVE refrigerators...
and as financially strapped as we may feel, we know there will be some food in there when we open the door to our refrigerator and again, tomorrow there will be something to eat.
WE have access to health care, our children were vaccinated, and they are healthy. We are well too, with no deteriorating illness or debilitating disease nor are we amputees from war or maimed...(my h works with Wounded Warriors and it's a powerful thing to see a 25 y/o woman missing her hands, but feeling that they are "on fire", b/c that is what her nerve endings tell her brain).
We know our h's are alive. They did not disappear in the desert or jungle.
Despite the r problems we have, you know you are physically surviving this day...this week and this month.
These facts ^^^above, mean that our lives are in the top 3% of lives, worldwide....
think about that some time. In the grand scheme of things our pain is real but it's not eternal or fatal. We are far FAR more fortunate than the vast majority of women in the world.
When I hear someone say "this is so unfair" I just say 'Fair'? Go to Africa...
back to YOU, what are your GAL? You have a talent for photography so are you working to increase your income in that?
Have you seen a L to know your rights? (you do not have to DO anything but listen to learn b/c you may feel empowered to stay married, not trapped by fears of what MIGHT happen if you two divorce).
Have you joined a club or taken a class? We hammer the whole GAL thing b/c it really helps YOU FEEL BETTER
and seem less predictable to h, which shows CHANGE on your end
b/c we both know that
the more he believes marriage to you can be better/different,
the more likely he is to want to make it work.
How are YOU showing him that it can be better/different?
What changes can he see in YOU other than weight loss/gain?
Again, kudos to you for all the growth you've experienced.
If you get a chance, look up a workshop called Essential Experience, on the east coast. I don't know where you live but it's profoundly helpful in making real & lasting changes in your life. Seeing the changes in me, led my h to attend it too.
I only mention this b/c weekly sessions with a t, even a great one, are usually not sufficient to make the behavioral changes and the paradigm shifts we have to make.
But regardless, I have to say WELL DONE!
Wow, a lot to think about, 25. You are really quite amazing in so many ways.
My depression started, I think, from my childhood. Very dysfunctional family... alcoholic father who didn't really play a huge part in my life, a mother that had major anger issues (which is where I get it from) and crazy brothers and sisters that were constantly getting into major trouble.
I had good friends growing up, which I think is the only thing that "saved" me. But my self esteem has always been low just due to the fact that I never really liked my personality. People think I'm weird when I tell them that but it has been something I've struggled with my entire life.
I also was not raised with good cleaning habits. Our house was always a mess. My mom was a semi-hoarder which all has carried on into my M.
H's mother is the complete opposite. She is overkill on the cleaning and cannot stand to see a mess. Which carries on into H. We were a perfect match from the start, huh!!
I didn't ever realize that I had depression and that I had it so severely up until a year or so ago. Add on Adult ADD and I am a hot mess. H and I both didn't know what to do so therefore we just kept on with more of the same.
As I had more children my depression deepened. I had too much responsibility that I couldn't get on top of. My oldest D6 is a difficult child... very high strung, wants her way all the time, and stirs up contention in the home. She tends to stunt any kind of train of thought I ever have because I'm so focused on trying to settle her down, discipline her, or stop her from doing something. She does not mind me at all. (We are working on this.)
So for someone who has ADD already and has to deal with a difficult child, plus two other young children while also dealing with depression because of the fact that I can't get anything done... my world was spiraling downward fast. I was always angry, moody, and snappy. H has always been kind and easygoing with me.
But there were times that I could tell I had really hurt him. I was too prideful sometimes to recognize it and apologize. There were times that I would cry and tell him that I was so sorry for the things that I put him through and I was sorry I didn't help more. I told him, I try to, I don't know what it is, I just can't do it. Too much going on in my head and bad habits had formed over the years that were hard to change.
He continued to enable me which eventually left me paralyzed. I literally would walk in a messy room and just stare at it and not know where to start. So I would NEVER start. My head couldn't take it.
This has been my main thing I have been working on along with changing my attitude towards life. I was "Debbie Downer." And this is why I hated myself so much.
I still struggle a little everyday to follow through with some tasks but for the majority of the time, I'm pretty on top of things now. And it feels really good to take control of my life again.
So when H states that I seem more put together... I'm pretty sure that's what he means. I'm not perfect at it, but I've come to realize that the perfectionist in me is the reason I got there in the first place. It doesn't have to be perfect. It just needs to get done. I get it now.
Also, I wanted to explain what I meant by "long suffering." I see it as enduring to the end. Not giving up through hard times. I didn't mean to be a martyr and to cause other people to suffer. Just wanted to clarify on that.
So many times I have turned to God to help me know what to do, or help me ease my pain. And so many times I am reminded that if I continue to do the things I should be doing... things will work out the way they are supposed to. I have a closer R with God now than I've ever had in my entire life. I feel like this was also a big reason for me needing to experience this tragedy because I needed to change my priorities in a major way.
The last thing I wanted to talk about was making H "work" to get me back. I meant that as him really showing me that he wants this. Not just telling me. What would that take? Well, for starters... the obvious, cut off all contact with OW. Make me a priority. (That was a huge thing lacking in our R. Everything else came before each other, we both realize that.) Put forth the effort to share his feelings with me... open up more.
For so long I've felt like I have put myself out there so much and I made myself really vulnerable. I realize I did that last night as well. I need to stop doing that. He really has this way of making you feel like you can trust him. You can tell him anything and it will be safe with him.
I'm learning that I can't really trust him right now and so those things need to be kept to myself until he's completely ready to commit. If that day ever comes.
Jks
I'm going on a trip soon so I'll have to brief and don't want you to think I dropped off the face of the earth.
just a few notes...I LOVE your insights. The whole housework thing is interesting to me b/c as a Lawyer and a poor housekeeper myself I've used my "genius" as a reason for not being so organized.
My point is, some of this is perspective but you are right to identify when things are "too messy" b/c then we're out of control. When h was in the height of his MLC, he lost things that were really important like IRS letters.
WTH? That was after decades of meticulous absurdly detailed record keeping...
So, That was new and NOT cool. But it pointed out to me, that HE was different so I had to pick up the slack. Sooo not fun. But necessary.
Anyhow, I'm sorry about the troubles with D6. Have you had her tested for personality issues AND OR being gifted? That is not always the gift it seems to be...but she may, MAY need some therapy or meds...
doesn't hurt to test her and you can always say "no thanks" to the MDs.
** Learning to apologize...huge saving gift for marriages. Do what you can. Learn to see an apology as a sign of strength and not as weakness and if and when your h apologizes to you
never take advantage of it to attack him more. I think that's the big fear we have when we know we "ought" to apologize. Somehow we fear the other person will jump on us and say "A HA!! Proof that you are a bad guy" and it's not likely at all. Even if it did happen, after an apology, would you really reasonably agree??
I think you're on the right track. As for GOALS
I'd suggest you get really specific, if only internally, with what you want and need from your h
as to how he can "prove" you are his priority. Be specific but reasonable.
I say I'd love to tell my h to quit his job to prove his devotion, but would i really?
H does good work for very injured people, and makes good money...so what is it I really want from him?
Some way for ME to feel that, IF HE HAD TO, which he does not,
he'd give it up for us. Does that make sense to you?
Also I'd get specific goals about the housework. Just b/c he works for money does not make you solely responsible for all housework. Does he help?
Can you afford to hire someone? IF YOU WORKED MORE, could you?
I have to tell you this--once I was earning money, I hired a housekeeper. At first it was once a month, then every 2 weeks and sometimes more. Now it's back to once a month. What a GODSEND!
Now, I am not embarrassed to have company show up unannounced. and I LOVE having a clean bathroom. I love my home more...and I can tell h likes coming home to it, more.
As for what I learned growing up, my mother did her best BUT my mom had 9 kids in 12 years
and all I remember her doing, was cleaning/mopping floors or changing diapers. I did not want her life.
So I totally went for "the career" and I get where you are coming from/ no woman could manage what my mother was apparently expected to do and my father worked hard, at HIS JOB, but not at home...
So I hired someone to help us and you know
The housekeeper reduced our household conflict by about 80%...seriously.
If that's not worth having a job for, what is?
Just food for thought - and until you CAN afford it, it's just an idea. But if you can,
give it real thought.
IN retrospect, On a daily basis, (aside from OW) what did you two feel bad about or fight about? How did your self esteem get affected by a messy house?
So, you clearly have some gifts of creativity. Once you harness those gifts might it make more sense for you to use them to create harmony in your life, including hiring someone who knows how the heck to clean things and to make you feel more financially secure?
it's not ALL due to your back ground OR IF it is, there are other options...
One of my sisters is a total slob, and another one is a professional organizer! (Gee, no pattern there...)
being a lousy housekeeper is not the worst trait in the world. And you are working on what is important.
How about your GAL and your goals for it?
what's new in that arena?
From a lousy housekeeper: I've been enjoying these posts.
The best thing that could have ever come out of this is that I LOVE MYSELF!!! I truly do. It makes me cry just thinking about it. I have struggled with my self-worth for so long and I'm so happy to finally be able to see the beauty and strength from within me.
Wow...
I am not going to pursue any longer. I want this man to work for me. I feel like I am a damn fine catch and he really is losing something wonderful, including a wonderful connection, in me that he will always regret if he truly chooses OW over me. He is a good man. I felt like I could see into his soul last night. We stared at each other for a long time. There's a lot to be said in just staring into a person's eyes. There's an energy that runs between the two of you that is undeniable.
These are good posts JKS.
I asked you in a previous post what in will take for him to win you back? You dont have to post it here, just make sure you knowin your heart mind what it will take for him to win your trust again.
A soft rejection from you will be a good test on how he responds.
I love your mindset currently.
He may have what it takes to work on the R, He may also be using you as a fall back plan. Until he has completely ended it with OW, you should continue to live as you were D.
Be prepared for either outcome and you'll be fine.
why test him with a soft rejection?
It's fine to be cautious, she's be nuts not to be. But she herself is trying to show change in how SHE acts with him.
How does pushing him away get him closer?
Maybe it's semantics? Maybe we mean the same thing, but the word "test" and "rejection" bother me.
I think it's awfully easy to slide into being punitive when we "test" our spouses.
Food for thought.
this thread will lock SOON
JKS,
Thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate it. I'm really proud of your current outlook, you're so far away from where you started and I think that's really great, because it's been an impossibly tough road. WRT your alt question, I answered it if you look back in your thread. I do think you're getting some great advice from 25, she's been around a long time and tells it like it is. 25, I'm glad you're here.
Accuray
25,
I don't want to see JKS bite at the first attempt from her H, especially if he is just using words.
eg. H says "I think we should go out sometime"
If he says this and he's still with OW then its not the right time for JKS to agree.
Using the phrase " I don't know how I feel about that"
has a tremendous affect on the WAS.
Sorry if these words bother you.
There are too many cases where the LBS take back the WAS too quickly.
The LBS want the M back more than anything and are blinded by it. They need to truly know the WAS is committed to the R.
I stand by the soft rejection b/c I experienced it.
If you would like to call it "Make the WAS work for it" that's OK.
To be honest, I don't think my H would ever want to go out with me while he's still dating/sleeping with OW. I actually made that very clear to him when I first found out about the PA that I wouldn't do anything with him whether it was a family thing or just a couples thing until he had completely ended things with her. He told me, "fair enough."
Also, a month ago when he was telling me how he was trying to find the best time to end things with OW, he told me that he didn't think he could fully commit to me until that relationship has ended. So, I think H and I both get what needs to happen as far as that goes.
But, yes, I do need to really figure out what it is that I specifically want to see in him in order for this R to work for ME. I picked up my kids from him yesterday and my feelings around him had significantly changed. Meaning, I wasn't as confident about the way things were going. The pit in my stomach returned and I had some major anxiety. I kept thinking how insecure I feel around him right now because he's so obviously torn.
Why is he torn? Because he found someone that he truly enjoys being with. He feels ashamed about her because of the way they got together but if all of that was pushed aside or if they were given more time to let it ride out, maybe H would really be happy going that route. He's still so worried that he'll never feel the same about me that he did so long ago. I never mentioned this before, but the night we had our appt, H did say that sometimes he just wishes he could go back 5 years. FIVE YEARS!!! That threw me back for a minute when he said it because I had no idea he was really that unhappy for that long!
Yesterday I was starting to feel his uncertainty and I don't know that it was really anything he did, it was just the reality of it all. The anxiety of losing him was starting to set in all over again and I left his house feeling like I was at square one AGAIN.
The good thing is that I recover more quickly now. And I did not try to contact him to talk about it, thank heavens!! I come here and I read my past posts and reflect back on the turn of events and just try to be ok. No matter what. I'm ok. I don't want to lose him but I want him to want it just as much as I do.
When I made the joke the other day about how I'm the best W in the world... (which obviously, I'm not) but I really do think that H is quite lucky in the fact that I have stood by his side throughout this disaster. It is not easy to see the good in someone that is treating you like this on a regular basis. Yet, I choose to take the higher ground.
I will not be oblivious, but I will be faithful until my heart tells me I am done. I write this now, because in a couple of weeks I may feel differently... LOL! I was talking with a friend today and I told her, the reality of it is, this really could take another three months. Do I have it in me to endure that long? Wow, who knows. But then again, probably. What's another three months, right? (sigh)
25, you asked me about GAL activities... I have my kids quite a bit so I basically make plans to do things everyday with them. And I very often will call my friends with kids to have playdates with us. The days that I don't have my kids, I'm working on my photography. I'm building a new website with the help of a friend and I'm trying to get that together so I can get it launched.
I do also make it a point to work out as much as I can because I need the interaction with new people (I almost always go to the classes the gym offers) and I love the way it makes me feel. If you have other suggestions of things you think I should try... I'm game to hear them.
Also, you asked if H helped out around the house... um, the answer is a big fat YES. He did everything. He is very much like his mom. He just wants it to get done, so he just does it... which is why I say he enabled me.
You also asked me what it was that H and I fought about on a daily basis, I'm guessing you meant when we were living together?? I wouldn't ever say that we fought a lot. In fact, we both agree that we didn't really fight a lot at all. (H did mention at one point a couple months ago that the reason for that was because of him. Because he would just accept my terrible behavior and not really say anything. Blows my mind how people can live that way.) So I would just say that we didn't really have fun together. We didn't go out together and when we did it was usually the same old dinner and a movie. I was feeling the distance with him just as much.
For example, we went to H's aunt's cabin two years ago and they had jet skis there. Since H and I don't really do anything recreational together (I am mostly to blame for this) there was a point where H and I decided to ride the jet ski together and I drove so he was sitting behind me. It felt weird. Usually you would be totally comfortable with that type of thing with your H but it just made me realize how our connection was diminishing. I wanted it to be fun and I wanted to feel that attraction to him but all I felt was emptiness.
Looking back, though, I don't think I took it as a huge warning sign... but I should have. And the reason I say that we didn't do anything recreational together is because H would ask me and I would quickly decline because I've always felt like it just wasn't my thing. For instance, he's a runner. I have no endurance when it comes to running and never have. I tried running with him long ago and he left me in the dust and I lasted about 5 min. How fun is that? So I never wanted to do it again with him.
Now I'm realizing that I don't necessarily need to run in order to go out and do something active with him. This last winter I tried to get us both ski passes so that we could go once a week with each other because I do actually really enjoy skiing and he LOVES snowboarding... so what better way for us to try to reconnect. But time and time again our money situation just couldn't make that happen. He was surprisingly very much on board with it though.
Which brings me to another point... our money issues. (gosh, our issues don't ever end, do they??) We never have any money!! So to plan any kind of vacation or any type of getaway was always a huge stressor for us because we just couldn't afford it. Even now with both of us living with our parents and not having a mortgage payment, we are still broke. It's weird. We're just awful at managing our money, I guess.
We need to get professional help in this area... and I am constantly on the fence of whether I should get a job or not. I don't necessarily want to put my kids in daycare (way too expensive for three little kids and totally complicated when the school year starts). And I could see myself being more willing to get a job if H and I lived together again because we could make it work where I would try to work while he's home during the days. But trying to do all of that while being separated and finagling the kids back and forth, back and forth on a daily basis is just too much for me.
If I knew we were over and I would have to deal with him that often... I would be miserable.
Also, a month ago when he was telling me how he was trying to find the best time to end things with OW, he told me that he didn't think he could fully commit to me until that relationship has ended. So, I think H and I both get what needs to happen as far as that goes.
Interesting, he can go with this OW while still with you but needs to "officially end it with her"
That doesnt compute.
JKS youre back sliding now. You're letting your feelings and emotions interfere with your goal.
What makes you happy?
Why was your H attracted to you?
Start thining your way through this,.
Lead with your thoughts.
Are you prepared for either outcome?
hey not to nag but this is the longest thread I've seen go, in years.
They usually cut them off and lock them at around 10 pages or 100 posts...so you may want to think about starting a new one with a recognizble title easy for us to find.
i have more to say but am pressed for time.
Also, I think if you read this past post of yours you will see a pattern in your choices. You were sort of benignly neglecting and downright rejecting him in some areas but you still SEEM to excuse it.
I think you are digging deep though, and you'll get somewhere great with this journey.
As for how long you can do this, see MY timeline in my signature block please.
At one point my sil asked me what the big deal was to rush into a div decision. She had a point b/c he was gone. No tension...
But I had an internal timeline of my older d graduating from high school. That was a total of 2 years from h first leaving to when I'd want to be out of limbo. I needed to know there was a light at the end of the tunnel.
Meanwhile there was some stability for the girls and I and we stayed in our house.
If ANY of that applies, great.
((( )))
Interesting, he can go with this OW while still with you but needs to "officially end it with her"
That doesnt compute.
JKS youre back sliding now. You're letting your feelings and emotions interfere with your goal.
Will you elaborate more on this?? Mostly your first sentence...
What I was pointing out was he left you to start another R with OW when your R together wasn't fully over.
I understand you want to have the family back together. This process is a long slow one.
You're approaching a year now. Did you ever think you would make it this far?
Patience. You have a great chance to turn this around.
JKS,
My 2 cents is that it doesn't matter why the WAS comes back -- as long as they agree to "no contact" with OW and give you full visibility.
Pretend he comes back because someone bet him $10 that he wouldn't -- that's a crappy reason right? From my perspective, who cares? You now have a starting line and an opportunity. If you can be a spouse that only a fool would leave, keep up your 180's and meet each others needs, then in 12 months WHY the WAS came back won't matter at all -- you'll have the marriage you want and that's what matters.
Accuray
Good point Ray ^^^^. I had thought that I would only consider allowing my w back if she decided on her own that she wanted to move forward with me in a better m, showed remorse,etc.. but it doesn't matter why they come back imo because as u said its what u do w/ the opportunity if they come back.
I disagree. If the REAL reason for their return is not one of sincerity, then the R won't develop.
She he comes back b/c it is financially easier to have a "room mate". He's there for the wrong reason.
From experience, only when the WAS truly commits to the R does it work.
IMO.
How can they truly commit right out of the gate? JKS says her husband was in pain in the M for 5 years -- it would be irrational to 100% commit without seeing promise that the new M can be better than the old one. That commitment needs to be earned it can't just be expected as a requirement to get started
From experience, only when the WAS truly commits to the R does it work.
IMO.
BINGO
From experience, only when the WAS truly commits to the R does it work.
IMO.
BINGO
the issue is not whether they commit at some point but WHY they commit. Accuray's point,
with which I agree
is that it does NOT MATTER WHY - IF THEY DO THE WORK...
I admit a big part of why I wanted my marriage to work was for my kids, and financial fears too...
NOT just ME being married to h...per se...and I ASSUME my h felt partly the same...
so what? We did the work.
25, I posted a question for you on my new thread... if you have a chance to look at it. Here's the link...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2258249&page=2