Good morning DBers,
Time for a new thread.
I am starting to float instead of fight..let go instead of grab and grasp, take back my power instead of give it away.
There are still painful times, but they are fewer and less intense. I have learned that they are connected to me allowing myself to fall back into the victim role.
I read the following tis morning from Pema Chodron:
"WHAT ARE WE PRACTICING?
The painful thing is that when we buy into disapproval, we are practicing disapproval. When we buy into harshness, we are practicing harshness. The more we do it, the stronger these qualities become. How sad it is that we become so expert at causing harm to ourselves and others. The trick then is to practice gentleness and letting go. We can learn to meet whatever arises with curiosity and not make it such a big deal."
I am probably scheduled to meet w/ SIL tonight (she is not totally sure of her sched yet.) I have not seen her for months. I have been avoiding it the past two weeks due to fears of being served the D papers. I also expect that seeing her will bring up a lot of memories.
But I am facing one by one all my fears.. as one of my "angels" on this board, Val, suggested
"You'll never know where you are in your journey or what work is left to do until you get out there and test the waters."
So tonight I am testing the waters.
My plan is to be true to myself... (well, the myself I want to be and am working on becoming)....warm, loving, happy, confident. I do not plan to bring up W but if she does, I will try my best to express my good wishes for W...and to change the subject..
what does everyone think of my plan?
oh and I am excited to tell her that I am thinking seriously about doing a triathlon in September (I always pick a challenge to accomplish before my birthday..last year it was a 62 mile bike ride.)
You are amazing! 62 mile bike ride? WOW!
I am confident your meeting will go well. Just remember she is probably just as nervous as you are and won't want to get into it. It says a lot that she wants to maintain your R so cherish that. Whenever I get upset about my sitch I think of all the more horrible ones I know of and I'm grateful.
I loved your daily thought. You have great insights and I'm so happy that you share that with us. I'll be thinking of you tonight.
Thank you Brit for all your support and encouragement. Yes, she will probably be nervous too and if I focus on helping her feel comfortable, I won't be focusing on my nerves.
I am building a new relationship with her as well, one based on her and I, not on W.
Another great new thread title!
It's okay to be nervous about seeing SIL. I agree she's probably nervous too. I would be surprised if she had the papers to serve you - that would be a pretty low blow!
This seems like a good occasion on which to practice acting "as if" - act as if she's not going to serve you and you're going to have a lovely visit and reminisce about the good times if the topic turns to that! If you act as if you're going to get served (which seems to be a very, very low chance of that actually happening), the visit will probably get off to a bad an awkward start. Maybe if things are going well you can make a joke of how you were worried it might go down like that and how you immediately dismissed such a possibility because that would be absurd! (maybe better not...
)
The triathlon seems like a great goal!
Hope tonight went well NG
((( )))
Thank you friends.
SIL ended up having to do something for her son tonight. We rescheduled for tomorrow night. But I actually felt excited and happy about it this afternoon, not so nervous...
Sleep well!!
Good luck NG, stay positive and in control. Looking forward to hear how it turns out.
was really looking forward to the update! Hope you're having a good day!
Thank you, Bustingout and Brit! I am feeling positive about tonight. I am excited about it.
However, I do need to VENT today...
I had to contact W due to our shared property and it brought up a lot of feelings of anger for me. Btw, I kept the email completely focused on the property issue.
I am angry that she had promised that we would go to therapy if we ever had problems and she didn't. (Well, 2 times, but that is not going to therapy...)
I am angry that she promised that if she ever had feelings for someone else that we would try and work things out instead of just bailing, and she bailed.
I am angry that she has taken something which most of the time was truly beautiful (our M) and reinvented it in her head to be something subpar.
I am confused about anger. My IC said yesterday that she felt that I needed to be angry to help me let go.... do I??
Anger helps in letting go, yes.
Is your IC pro-marriage does your IC know that you want to be married? Or is that an assumption on my part? : )
If your IC is pushing your IC's own agenda and not supporting your chocie? Tell them to support you, or find a new one.
As for your plan?
It is awesome!
I am a big proponent of facing down fears...especially since right now? Nothing in the world feels worse than that pit in your stoamch.
Heck I almost got a big old spider in a terrarium by my bed. Instead I just startin picking up the damned things in the yard. Not fearing them doesn't mean liking them BTW. : )
I am angry that she had promised that we would go to therapy if we ever had problems and she didn't. (Well, 2 times, but that is not going to therapy...)
I am angry that she promised that if she ever had feelings for someone else that we would try and work things out instead of just bailing, and she bailed.
I am angry that she has taken something which most of the time was truly beautiful (our M) and reinvented it in her head to be something subpar.
HEY! I know those feelings. I recognize them. You feel betrayed. You feel like you signed up for one thing and got given something else. Yes! I know! I felt like that and still sometimes do. (He thinks I went on vacation with the girls TWICE. I only went once a month before we split. and he said really angry and then you went with them AGAIN...err no I didn't)
It's hard but you have to say to yourself. There's nothing that I can do about broken promises I can either be angry with is covering my hurt. Or just say yes that happened and now this is where we are and I can only deal with now. I think it's a stage moving towards detach. First we feel hurt, then we feel angry for everything they didn't do, then we accept where we are right now!
So I took a page out of your book and signed up for a 10 mile run. This is a big deal for me haha
Team DB, thank you for all the positive thoughts and wishes. You all are amazing!
I had a wonderful time with my SIL. Once I saw her, I did not feel nervous anymore. We hugged and laughed and shared... it felt so good to see her and even when she mentioned W, I did not have the pit in my stomach that I thought I would.
She was very supportive and wanted to verbalize her confusion and feelings about what had happened, confirming much of how I have felt about the M. I was careful not to say much about W, take responsibility for my role and re-focus on my growth and my wishes for W's happiness.
I am so glad that I saw her. (Thank you Val for helping me confront my fear.) I was able to see my own growth too in not reacting, in detaching, in staying positive and confident.
I feel so good! Thank you all so very very much for being such a large part of my growth and healing. I still have quite a way to go and will need more 2x4s to be the person I want to be.
Fantastic news! I found myself thinking of you and wondering how it went!
You should feel pretty proud of yourself!
It is good to face our fears.
Good job! And the triathlon thing... Yeesh! GAL is one thing, but no need to be extreme about it.
Glad to hear it went so well!!
I feel so good! Thank you all so very very much for being such a large part of my growth and healing. I still have quite a way to go and will need more 2x4s to be the person I want to be.
None are needed right now,
you are right that this is a long journey
but the good news is you get to write what happens to YOU.
That is the part that YOU CAN CONTROL.
Thank you everyone!
It felt so incredible to come back online and see such support and encouragement. You all are the best!
I went hiking today to a waterfall with some friends. It was so beautiful. The waterfall had a small pool of water and one of my friends jumped in and went and stood under the falls. I decided to follow. It was exhilirating standing under the power of the falls. I was so glad that I did it. I remembered how W said that I am too cautious and felt really good about myself for going in...
We went with a group and I met some great new people...
And best of all, I did not really miss W. I just had fun.
grace-
that is so cool you did that. way to step out of your comfort zone! sounds like you enjoyed yourself. i miss waterfalls. when we lived in idaho we would always go to this certain one. it was kind of "our special place". i miss it. there is nothing like the falls coming down on you.
also good job meeting new people. that is never easy.
Journal
It is day 30 as dark as possible (only contact has been about shared property and I have kept that as minimal as humanly possible.)
It is much easier for me to feel better, focus and work on myself.
But I still find myself wanting to respond to things she wrote in her last letter but I am able to pull myself back in and not contact her. It is hard for me to know that she feels the way she does about the past (that our relationship was so flawed and that she had to work so hard to love me through it.)
Part of me says, well, all relationships are work and that her difficulties loving me are more about her, than me.
But another part of me keeps piping up and wondering if she is right, that I must have no idea what a healthy relationship is and I am too difficult to love.
Maybe I need to find a balance...where I accept that my faults contributed to our D but that so did hers.. and that our M had both good and bad in it, like all...
Maybe I lived in a fantasy of my own making, I always believed that we were the luckiest people in the world to have found each other. (she used to say that too.) I did not think she was perfect or myself, but I knew that i loved her no matter what and thought she felt the same.
I guess I wish I could make some sense of it all.
Journal
But I still find myself wanting to respond to things she wrote in her last letter but I am able to pull myself back in and not contact her. It is hard for me to know that she feels the way she does about the past (that our relationship was so flawed and that she had to work so hard to love me through it.)
But what would you responding change? Suddenly you'll say it in just the way she'll understand and things will be great? I know that fantasy, I have it at times.
Our S can only figure that out on their own, if they are so inclined to even think about it.
Maybe I need to find a balance...where I accept that my faults contributed to our D but that so did hers.. and that our M had both good and bad in it, like all...
This is where you need to bring your thoughts back to when you get off track.
(((ng)))
Why don't you write a response to get it out of your system and then instead of sending it, tuck it away in a drawer or shred it or something? Then you could revisit it if you need to in the future.
Thanks, Bug.
I'm not sure it is about thinking that she will get it and everything will be fine, as much as me feeling so groundless by her perception.. like how could i have been so oblivious to how she felt?
it makes me question my own perceptions of what is real..
does that make sense?
i'm sure i am overanalyzing and should just take some comfort in how her sis and family were confused and blown away too by it all.
NG, you're not actually believing all that stuff, are you? Yeah, she believed it when she said it to you, but she's looking through the lens of her current unhappiness and rewriting history to make it match.
Yes, it's maddening. Yes, it's worth looking for any grains of truth that we need to address. No, you should not discount your perceptions of reality.
I do find it helpful, when I really want to explain and correct and convince, to write the letter and get it out as Vera suggested. It never goes further than my journal, but it does seem to get it out of my system for a while.
You're doing great. Keep on keeping on. ((( )))
Thank you SD and Verab.
I like your idea of writing a letter I don't send. I think I will try it.
Thank you for the encouragement.
NG,
Glad to hear your time with SIL went well. I knew you were strong enough...
.. but it's hard to see our growth when we are in the middle of growing. It's only when we have hit markers that we can really look back and say "he!! yeah, I did conquer that".
Finding ways to escape those "needs to tell w 'x'" is important.. especially in the beginning.
Because you should only say things when you don't have expectations, when you need to say them for YOU regardless of how your w will respond.
IMO - that can't really happen until you're detached.
I still won't tell my w things because I DO have expectations. It's been quite the challenge.
Some learn to detach quicker than others.
Btw - Congrats on the 30 days! Keep it up!
it makes me question my own perceptions of what is real..
does that make sense?
YES I'm so happy that SD wrote that. I find myself questioning if my M was what I thought it was. Maybe the love I felt wasn't real especially if he's in a pattern and I was another part of his pattern. Maybe it was all one sided. Maybe, maybe, maybe it just goes around and around.
But it's like you said seeing the balance not all our side or all thiers.
Thank you for stopping by Val and Brit.
Thank you again Val for encouraging me to test myself w/ SIL. I feel so happy bc I have nieces and nephews I adore and I do still plan to be in their lives..
I feel at peace this morning. I am not sure why but I am not complaining
Yesterday, I got ahead of myself (I tend to do that) and thought, well, how can we ever R after all that W has said.. I would never feel safe. I felt panicked... and then I cried a few tears of sadness, read what SD said... and felt better.
I actually find moments of acceptance... and also realize that the moments of fear, anger, sadness, disappointment, etc are also opportunitites to grow...
“To be fully alive, fully human, and completely awake is to be continually thrown out of the nest.”
― Pema Chödrön
Lyrics from the music for my run this morning...
"Sober" by Kelly Clarkson
And I don't know
This could break my heart or save me
Nothing's real
Until you let go completely
So here I go with all my thoughts I've been saving
So here I go with all my fears weighing on me
Three months and I'm still sober
Picked all my weeds but kept the flowers
But I know it's never really over
And I don't know
I could crash and burn but maybe
At the end of this road I might catch a glimpse of me
So I won't worry about my timing, I want to get it right
No comparing, second guessing, no not this time
Three months and I'm still breathing
Been a long road since those hands I left my tears in but I know
It's never really over, no
Wake up
Three months and I'm still standing here
Three months and I'm getting better yeah
Three months and I still am
Three months and it's still harder now
Three months I've been living here without you now
Three months yeah, three months
Three months and I'm still breathing
Three months and I still remember it
Three months and I wake up
Three months and I'm still sober
Picked all my weeds but kept the flowers
Journal:
Went for a run and then took my dog for a walk. Lots of time to think, pray and smell lavender along the way
One time, my thoughts turned to my W's comments... one right before she left about how I was lenient with the dog and that meant I would be so if we had kids..
I started to tear up...and then I decided to not define myself by what she thinks.. that I know I would not have been perfect, but that my child would have known from the depths of his/her soul that she/he was loved.
This brought me back to something I put in our wedding vows... that we would vow to see each other with kind eyes. All of us have faults but I believe they are intimately connected to that which is beautiful about us too.
I am still wanting to choose to see my W with kind eyes. Not as if she were perfect or the only one for me, but to not lose sight of her humanity.. flawed but beautiful.
It makes this hurt more, and made me cry to write here, but it is who I want to be..
I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that you'd be a great parent!
you continue to strive towards compassion and love when others would have decided that anger and resentment would make detachment easier.
You have been NC for so long that must feel quite empowering. You've held back when she has made contact. You've put your hurt and pain second to improving the contact that you two do have and the business relationship. You should feel very proud and that's certainly not a sign of leniency. You're very strong!
ok.. so I need to vent.
i get a package in the mail today from W. some of it I knew was coming, a garage door opener, some photos...
but..
before the bomb, we had been planning and dreaming about a backyard remodel, complete with cool outdoor tent to serve as a poolside lounge area, possible cool extra bedroom for nieces/nephews visiting or just for us to semi-camp out.
she included the drawings/diagrams she had started as part of our planning the area.
i started crying when i saw them. they are such a symbol of our life together and how we would dream together about our home. we had already completed 2 amazing remodels.. and loved design and architecture and dreaming... we loved to entertain and wanted our home to be so much fun for us and everyone else...we had gotten the idea at a resort we visited last year.
i am writing here instead of writing to her. there are so many layers to this grief, just when i think i am near the end, or almost immune, another one pops up.
I know that each time I recover quicker and the feelings are less intense and I am sure that is what will happen here.
thank you for being here for my vent.
hugs!
If I've learned anything through this is that every bomb gets easier. Every surprise every time you get shaken to your core you do recover quicker. It isn't just the R that's over but all your hopes and dreams for that R as well.
I am *starting* to see those hopes and dreams as still being mine. Just because there is something I shared with him doesn't mean it can't still be mine. I'm trying to make my frying pan bigger.
It's hard because sometimes you feel like because they aren't there nothing will be the same. Or you can't do it or maybe you should find a different dream because that was something you had with them...I am not doing that anymore.
NG, I know the feeling. (( ))
Thanks Brit and Verab. You both are angels!
It is true, I can build a different dream for my life... and remodel my backyard!
The waves of grief are smaller, they do not knock me over anymore, they just make ma a little sad until they pass through.
Today I did a meditation about mountains.
I was thinking about our journey here as climbing a mountain. First, we feel overwhelmed and scared by the size and scope of the climb. The mountain is all we can see. As we climb, we gain more confidence that we can do this and bc we a get higher and higher on the mountain, we gain more perspective on what is behind us.
As we reach the top, we begin to see and grasp the beauty before us and realize that the climb was worth it, every step...
Each day of the climb brings us closer and closer...
Ah yes you never really appreciate how far you've come until you're there. It's a good one. Thank you for being here and always sharing!
Ok.. I want some advice..
I have been NC for 33 days now except the business matter.
I mentioned yesterday that I got a box from W w/ lots of stuff in it.. plans for the backyard, photos, etc. I also got a check from her this week that she had already told me she had sent last week for the business matter.
Today I get an email indicating that she got some bills I forwarded last week. She also asked me if I got the check and box.
The box was fed ex which I am assuming she can track if she wants to..right?
The check I knew had been sent and I would have followed up if it did not arrive..
I am not sure how to respond...
I do not have as "kind eyes" as Brit. I want good things for her but I know I am not ready to be friends.
WWBD? What would Brit do???
I think you are being tested.
Is a reply neccessary?
The other piece that is so puzzling to me is that..
last I heard from her she was filing the D papers the weekend of May 20..
I have not been served nor has she given me any idea what is going on with the papers..
and yet she contacts me about this??
I think you are being tested.
Is a reply neccessary?
^^At the very LEAST, I would wait a few hours and reconsider whether a reply is necessary.
I have come to realize recently how my emotions control my urges to reply immediately. By asking what my emotions are telling me to do and then analyzing whether that is an appropriate action, I take the immediacy out of it. (Like labug talking earlier today about not freaking out about being late for a movie).
I just made such a strange laugh/cough at WWBD that my S popped his head around the corner and said "you ok mom?" LOL
I think you are being tested.
Is a reply neccessary?
I agree completely. I would love to not respond AT ALL. but knowing me I would reply with a Yes I rec'd them thanks. (h just sent me a text about something that didn't really need a reply but I replied anyway and said I remembered thanks)
I would suggest like Vera says to WAIT. Sleep on it, give it 24-48 hours. It is amazing how a little bit of time can take away all the weight from something that felt HUGE in the initial rush of emotion.
Instead of saying "she contacts me about this!!" how about looking at the positive...she has reached out to you. She didn't HAVE to send those pictures or those plans. She could have thrown them out kept it all business and like you said tracked it. So it is a positive in terms of improved communication. No expectations, but think about how you want to respond and what your motivation will be. Think about how the new and improved Grace would handle this...it's not an obstacle it's an opportunity. You can stay strong in your boundary and be proud of that. You can reply and be proud of the words you choose.
OK I just reread my posts..
Q:is it crazy to get thrown off kilter by a two line email??
A: yes
Q: what do I need to do?
A: chill and not take it all so seriously
We ALL do it! It's not crazy here it's normal...craziness is defined but what you do next you've been a pro at this do far! Good for you!
NG you have amazing insight and such self control. You seem to be consistently growing and learning. I am have so much admiration for you. What an inspiration.
Good for you on the email. I can COMPLETELY relate. After 12 days of NC for he sent me a text asking to speak with the kids. My heart jumped into my throat had no idea how to respond. In hindsight can almost giggle. The man just wanted to speak to his kids. Once I let my brain take over I realised all I needed to text back was 'sure'.
But I can also understand why we can get crazy. We are doing some major changes here..180's, NC, GAL, etc and it takes an emotional toll on top of our individual situations that we are dealing with. So I get how even the mildest form of contact can make us jump.
I like the kind eyes. I would like to have kind eyes with my H no matter what. Over time I am realising more and more that I gave very little attention to my H's emotional needs. When I think about that, it helps me look at him with kind eyes.
I like WWBD. Sign me up for the newsletter!
Busting out
i think almost all of us have a great deal of anxiety for the situations we're in. it's hard to know what to do, how to take everything. it's so much easier to look at another's and think more clearly.
that's why you're here and why i'm glad you are. i learn from everything you, and others, write here
and we lean on each other and get through it. these are not "normal" times. you're not crazy or we all are!
Thank you everyone, you all are so understanding and compassionate. I feel blessed to "cyberknow" you. Truly.
So the email yesterday was followed up by two more yesterday with questions about taxes and one more today with another question about insurance.. they are legitimate requests for information.
I will send one reply to not prolong contact. I will be cordial but professional, not personal. I think that is what grace would do... and who i want to be. i do not want to make things more difficult for her but i also want to maintain my boundaries.
Good for you!!!!! I am enjoying looking at things thru the eyes of what would the person I want to be do? How can I learn? I found that when I was feeling bad today and I thought that I even stood up a bit taller.
Very happy that you are finding that fine line.
Managing contact is tough. You're doing well.
I'm thinking that you're the one who mentioned the "Be Still and Know" meditation. I dug it up and I'm finding it very helpful. Thanks for that.
"Q:is it crazy to get thrown off kilter by a two line email??
A: yes
Q: what do I need to do?
A: chill and not take it all so seriously"
i like how you put that - i think sometimes when that "crazy" feeling hits - a lot of our reaction to how we are functioning actually makes it worse. on some level we are watching ourselves "losing it" and criticizing ourselves for not having the perfect response - and that self -criticism actually makes us feel worse and get down on ourselves bad.
i like the thing about the kind eyes - kind eyes towards ourselves as well as our spouses and everyone else in our world. being kind gives us a very warm feeling deep inside - and we sure need that, don't we - that warm feeling towards ourselves?
i think what i'm trying to say is that the best thing we can do for ourselves is to stop being so hard on ourselves for not being the most perfect DB'ers in the world
zig
I will send one reply to not prolong contact. I will be cordial but professional, not personal. I think that is what grace would do... and who i want to be. i do not want to make things more difficult for her but i also want to maintain my boundaries.
This is a good strategy.
Remember.. you matter too. If you need to take care of things out of responsibility, ie: taxes.. then do it.
Things in regards to the separation or possible D, do at your own pace.
Let her do the leg work and do only what you can emotionally handle.
It is a sign of grace and poise that with all the emotions and feelings and things left unsaid that may be raging inside that you are handling her Socratic (and at the moment slightly persistent) contact in such a matter. I'm so proud and a bit envious not gonna lie! You are the queen of NC!
Thank you, Val. She did ask one question that I thought was for the D papers and for which she should have all the info readily at hand, so I ignored it. Thanks for the reminder of remembering my needs too. I often feel obliged to provide people what they need without considering me.. In this instance though, I waited and read it again with that in mind. Then I changed when I would send her something based on my schedule, not hers. It is amazing how our stuff can come out in a seemingly innocuous short message.
Thank you too, Brit. The Queen of NC...LOL!! I will wear the crown proudly! Actually, imho, NC is much easier than what you are doing... acting "as if" was a bear for me. I am envious of your strength there.
And Brit...I looked up the astrology sites you mentioned and for me, June 1 - 11 is supposed to bring financial opportunities. Well, two new ones have fallen in my lap the past two days... I am just not sure if I have the time for them. Amazing! I don't typically read those, but now I am intrigued....
I meant sporadic! haha auto correct FAIL
I'm telling you that astrologyzone made me a convert it's very very strange. The first time I read it I read a friend of mine's sign too and it said you may even be getting married this week and HE WAS!
and to be honest, Brit, I stole your dog/birthday sign idea today too.. more proof of the need for WWBD? posters/bumper stickers/t-shirts... i see a whole new business idea.
it is our niece's 20th. she loved it. Thanks!
TBH not my idea, my coworker's boyfriend sent it to her when they'd started dating he put a sign that said Hi [coworkers name] and said that the dog had been asking for her ever since their last date. They've been together 2 years now!
I put on the text "look who made you a card" MIL said so gorgeous we all remarked on her wonderful penmanship. LOL
I would gladly go into business partnership with you haha!!! Let's take over the world!
LOL!
I was just on tumblr and there is a blog called Dear Old Love.. all the posts are notes to old loves..
This one caught my eye:
"I have run out of excuses to convince myself it’s ok to talk to you."
but i really laughed at this one:
"When we were together I felt like I needed to constantly know what you were doing, I thought I was just because I loved you. Now, I realize it was really because I didn’t trust you."
anyone can submit a post, i think we can come up with a few good ones here...
i must be feeling better, i am getting really silly lately
that's good, we all need a bit of silly - actually a lot:)
Dear old love, 7 years, 2555 mornings....you never once blew your nose. My day starts much quieter without the constant sniffling.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
LOL...
Dear old love, when I acted like I felt badly that the tattoo artist could not change my initials on your back into that new design of yours, i really didn't.
I am cracking myself up.
Dear old love,
I really miss your family. They were a part of my life, too. I especially miss your loudmouth, drunken sister and her alcololic husband (who fell over our table and sent dirt from that potted plant everywhere). But, most of all, I miss your 22-year-old daughter who lived with us for the past two years. If it had not been for her, and her self-centered, moody, lazy, dirty, entitled personality, I would not be enjoying my counseling sessions so much today.
"When we were together I felt like I needed to constantly know what you were doing, I thought I was just because I loved you. Now, I realize it was really because I didn’t trust you."
I love it.
Have a great day!!!
(( ))
Hey Grace, hopefully you absence means you'd had a great weekend!
hey brit, thanks for checking in. i have been having a fun weekend, i kept really busy with friends. i felt really grateful for them and for how much i have started to be able to enjoy things more. how was your weekend?
something cool happened. my mother loved hummingbirds and i think she is looking after me when I see them. (i even have a tattoo of one.) anyhow, a few weeks ago one sat on a kangaroo paw branch in my front yard and let me get within a few feet to take photos. yesterday, after bicycling, one sat in the air right in front of me a few feet away for a minute at least. i got the most amazing photo on my iPhone. i wish i could share it with you.
i have had hummingbirds in the yard for years but they have never let me get so close.
i did not think about W much but did want to show her the photo..and did cry a little on my way home today, i just miss her sometimes.
it was interesting, i spent time with an friend i have known for 20 years...and she was telling me how she always felt like my W was cold and never felt comfortable around her.. it surprises me bc W was always so warm and loving with me (until the BD). i am not sure what i think about it all, i guess it makes me feel sad in that i know that W had not opened her heart to anyone before me.. and she has not only closed off to me now but is denying so much about our history together.
most weekends, i have been trying to find things to do not to be alone...this weekend, i was busy but had moments where i was wanting to be home... i am fine alone in my home. yay!
hope everyone else had a good weekend!
i spent time with an friend i have known for 20 years...and she was telling me how she always felt like my W was cold and never felt comfortable around her.. it surprises me bc W was always so warm and loving with me (until the BD).
This is not the first time I have heard this, and in fact it is the same with my wife.
I think that they did have a underlying low level depression that was hiddem from us but would show itself to others.
After BD then we see it too.
Love is a choice, and they are choosing it differently than what we would like.
Does not mean that it will always be that way because they can change back.
It takes a long time for that to happen.
Same thing as a 14 year old girl, takes her a long time to become an ADULT.
Does not happen overnight but it does happen.
You are doing great NG, keep it up
Thank you,Cadet
I greatly appreciate your encouragement and your reminders that this is a long ride, it helps me stay calm.
I had a dream last night that I was at a wedding reception. All the couples I knew chose to sit at small tables where they could be alone together. I was seated in the middle of a large banquet hall table with no one near me me. I felt very alone and sad.. but I ended up just moving my seat to the end of the table to sit next to someone I did not know. I felt proud of myself for moving..
I was with a friend this weekend who is getting married soon to a wonderful woman. I thought back to 4 years ago, she was going through a terrible break-up and felt similarly to how I have been feeling recently. I was reminded how life can change... and that time is on our side... not just for another chance w/ W but for the possibility of someone new and wonderful if W never looks back.
Weird... someone asked me this weekend if I was single... I about choked and did not know what to say. I am married in my mind, but feel silly saying that when everyone knows my W is w/ someone else and lives in another state...
I was with a friend this weekend who is getting married soon to a wonderful woman. I thought back to 4 years ago, she was going through a terrible break-up and felt similarly to how I have been feeling recently. I was reminded how life can change... and that time is on our side... not just for another chance w/ W but for the possibility of someone new and wonderful if W never looks back.
so so true. I went away at the end of April and saw a girl I'd met in 2009 at the time she's come out of an 8 year R was back living with her parents and feeling in her mid 30s not very hopeful. how things change. Here she was 5 month pregnant, a surprise but a happy one at her age, and a few weeks later she and her BF moved into the home they'd bought together and upon walking in he'd proposed. I remember how she felt then and how she spent a year and a half not dating and yes if we all had a crystal ball how different we'd feel.
I am so so so so proud of you. How difficult is a wedding when you're going through what we are. good for you! not only for going but moving to talk to people you don't know. Fantastic!
My sis (wonderful fountain of wisdom) told me how easy it is for the rough edges to appear smooth when we look through the eyes of love. We're more willing to compromise and act with tenderness. It's possible that someone outside the M can see our partners with more clarity than we can. I think that's why when we detach we start to see them slightly different as well!
LOL Brit, the wedding was a dream. sorry i did not make it clear but thx for the laugh!
i just saw IC and she said something that made me think..
when she was dating her husband someone she know asked her if he knocked her socks off. she replied, that he knocks 1 1/2 of her socks off.
she told me that it is dangerous to expect that someone else will knock both of our socks off all the time or that we will need them to do that when we should do part of it for ourself.
how true...no one is perfect in every way meaning too that no one is perfect for us..
i think we live in a disposable society where if things are not just right we dispose and move on...
but we carry the baggage and the expectations that in reality no one can meet.
OK, I had just read J3B's excellent comment and committed it to memory
"I found it was easier for me to assume everything was a test. What test you ask?
A test to see if she could trust the changes I made in myself"
when W emails me a question about our shared property and asks what I think we should do...
i was on my way to provide the answer (fixer, enabler, rescuer armed and ready)..
when I stopped..
remembered the wisdom of J3B..
and thought that this was a test.
i have always taken care of things, so asking me what "we" should do means that W does not need to think about it..
and we stay stuck in the same pattern...
so i will wait.
ps. J3B's comment was in another thread on the MLC forum.. i think TSquared's thread.
NG interesting that you posted this. I am struggling with the same thing w/r/t H wanting to sell our house. I usually directed what should go down. 180 for me is to not direct. But at some point I have to stand up for my own financial interest. It's a quandary for sure. Good for you for recognizing the pattern and waiting.
I know that feeling verab. I have been learning to wait until I need to step in for my own interest. I had to do that several times during the settlement process.
I also had to have a friend step in and smack me up side the head when I was about to give up too much. I consider myself very savvy financially, but I learned that we all need advice when emotions are involved.
If this isn't too personal, is there any way for you to keep the house?
okay I should not read with one eye on the television oops! Well I think that dream needs no interpretation!
I really like Jack's statement! Thank you for posting!
Hi NG - not to threadjack, just answering your Q - I am thinking about calling a mortgage lender to see if I could qualify for a refinance by myself. It's not likely given the mortgage balance on the house and the likely monthly payment, but rates have gone down about 1% since we last refi'd. I can't afford to buy out H and I'm not sure how I feel about having a roommate and caring for a house that's too large for 1 person by myself. Plus the house is old and it needs some work. Possibly a bit too much for me to handle. Funny, part of me hated this house - the work, and the deception by the sellers on some hidden issues. But I don't want to give it up so easily. I need to do some DB on the house, I think, to detach
I need some DB advice about my response to my W's email today.
Once I got through my rush to fix and rescue, I realized something:
Her response was to an email in which I forwarded her 2010 tax file. I also told her the name of our investment property mortgage lender and assumed she was getting the statements. (The statement is mailed to her name so I assumed that it was forwarded to her as it does not come here since she did an address change.) She replied that she was not getting the statements.
Then she asked me if I was paying the mortgage company.
Now, she knows that I receive the rent every month from the tenants and have always paid it.
Why would she ask that? It feels as if she is questioning my integrity... as if I would take the rent checks and keep them myself?? Am I being too sensitive? I just don't know how she could even ask that question..
And how do I respond?? I was thinking of just saying "About your question... are you SERIOUS?"
But does that sound angry? I want to get my point across but I do not want her to think that she has any power over how I feel, just that her question was ridiculous.
On top of that, I realized that she did not even say thank you for me taking the time and trouble to send her the tax file.
What scares me though is that I did not notice any of that until much much later.
OK, she sent another email apologizing for not thanking me for sending the info.
But she did not say anything about that silly question....
If you are going to respond keep it all business.
Can you just send her proof that the payments are being made.
I used to be able to go online and get a print out of our mortgage with the dates that the payments are made.
Be careful because it is more likely another reason that she is asking as all is never as it seems to be.
Be careful because it is more likely another reason that she is asking as all is never as it seems to be.
I agree.
Why would she ask that? It feels as if she is questioning my integrity... as if I would take the rent checks and keep them myself?? Am I being too sensitive? I just don't know how she could even ask that question..
I find when someone asks something like that..it's usually a reflection on their integrity not yours. Because you wouldn't consider doing that or questioning someone you would assume they were doing the right thing. The fact that she would be worried that her business partner and W would do this, says a lot about how she's thinking right now.
I don't know if you read The Four Agreements but they talk a lot about how everyone's interactions with us is really about what's inside them. IE I've recently lost a lot of weight. Someone at work asked me "think you'll keep it off" yes, rude, mean, insensitive, etc. But it was about their fear, because that's probably something they've told themselves that it's difficult to keep off.
my first thought was this
1. you're making too much of the question - because it''s your sensitive area (you're over conscious of what you are doing right and have expectations that she should acknowledge them because you are so obviously doing the right thing
2. i think a lot of those things that they ask don't have much agenda behind them - she KNOWs full well that you're paying it and because she knows how to push your buttons it's probably a casual sub-conscious test on her part
for you to respond with "are you serious?" is letting her get you right where she wants you to be.
to treat and respond to that kind of question the same as coming from a stranger or acquaintance is the key i think.
just say yes i do keep up with the payments and leave it at that - anything more than that is your hidden agenda coming into play
h asks me every month whether i am paying the bills and i answer happily yes and nothing more. just asked me that yesterday as a matter of fact (and there's always a slightly accusatory tone behind the question)
don't rise to the bait - you've got better things to do
zig
to treat and respond to that kind of question the same as coming from a stranger or acquaintance is the key i think.
THIS^^^^^^^ is genius. I want to put it on my phone!
I'm sure Cadet is wise to suggest that you keep your eyes open. But, if it were me and I wasn't seeing the statements, you can bet I'd ask. She's put herself in a precarious position, having to trust someone that's she's done wrong by to do right by her. If you hold some financial cards, I'd expect her to periodically take the temperature to make sure you haven't turned mean and vindictive (which she can see the temptation of).
It's another opportunity to show that you're on a steady path of being an honorable person. I'm finding it helpful to think of all these things as tests. In my last DB coaching session, the coach pointed out how P was "throwing a lot of things at me." "What great opportunities to show how you're handling things."
And from the "Be Still and Know" meditation: "It's an opportunity."
you're right stubborn, another key to the correct approach - taking everything that comes into our circle as an opportunity to learn something (pema chodron) not just with our sitches, but to apply in every area of our lives.
hey thanks brit - i don't feel like a genius AT ALL, but heck it feels great to know that someone thinks what i said was genius-y (grin)
stubborn - interesting perspective, and i'm glad i read that - we sometimes forget utterly how vulnerable the WAS may truly be - we are so caught up in what is happening to us. i think it could raise our level of empathy considerably to look at it from that point of view.
and even that is an opportunity to show them -" that in your vulnerable state, as you are, you can trust that i am taking care of things and not hurting you in any way."
wow what a message we give them through that. i never thought about it that way before, but it is one of our biggest opportunities to show them that - when they leave the finances to us.
thanks for that insight
zig
to make sure you haven't turned mean and vindictive (which she can see the temptation of).
yes that's what I was thinking but didn't say it correctly. Thanks SD. She sees the temptation that Grace would probably never dream of
you all are amazing and so so right.
funny, i got another email this morning about her difficulty getting insurance and wanting me to give my family her love (i am visiting them next week.) her sister must have told her that i was going. not sure why she is reaching out more but i need to stay focused on me and remember zigs words about treating her questions like an acquaintance or stranger
SD, yes, she is in a precarious position bc her credit is in my hands.. and yes, though she knows how honest i am, she also knows what has happened between us, and must wonder how i will that her and this. a good friend of hers in the same situation recently cleared out her X's bank account. plus, i have not been in contact with her so she has no idea where i am at or what i think.. that is so true. thank you.
zig, i love that quote of yours too. i need to write it on my hand! i love how you are dealing with your husband about the bills and will be following your example. thank you.
brit, i have read the four agreements and think it is really insightful of you to apply that here. i do think it is a reflection of her fear. she has not taken care of anything financial in so long, that i think that whole area scares her to no end. her question to me was a reflection of her fear, not anything more.
cadet, i will keep it professional and will continue to take my time and limit my contact bc that is what is best for me.
thank you all for helping me to see her with kind eyes but also maintain my own boundaries. you all are amazing.
I saw this the other day and decided to post... It seemed appropriate after our discussion
Letting Go
Author unknown
To "let go" does not mean to stop caring,
it means I can't do it for someone else.
To "let go" is not to cut myself off,
it's the realization I can't control another.
To "let go" is not to enable,
but to allow learning from natural consequences.
To "let go" is to admit powerlessness,
which means the outcome is not in my hands.
To "let go" is not to try to change or blame another,
it's to make the most of myself.
To "let go" is not to care for,
but to care about.
To "let go" is not to fix,
but to be supportive.
To "let go" is not to judge,
but to allow another to be a human being.
To "let go" is not to be in the middle arranging the outcomes,
but to allow others to affect their own destinies.
To "let go" is not to be protective,
it's to permit another to face reality.
To "let go" is not to deny,
but to accept.
To "let go" it not to nag, scold or argue,
but instead to search out my own shortcomings, and correct them.
To "let go" is not to adjust everything to my desires
but to take each day as it comes,
and cherish myself in it.
To "let go" is not to criticize and regulate anybody
but to try to become what I dream I can be.
To "let go" is not to regret the past,
but to grow and live for the future.
To "let go" is to fear less,
and love more.
I love this! everyone who comes here should read this.
I heard a song the other day that said:
I said all of my goodbyes to ego
I gambled all I got, there's no plan B
It's the first time that I've learned to let go
It's the only place I feel, only place I feel like me
And I listened to it a million times. People say let go all the time, but having it really explained above it so good.
Wow, Brit, who sings that song and what is the name? I would like to add it to my playlist.
I am going to see my family next week and there is a wedding and a graduation and i feel so blessed to be a part of both.
I realized this morning that I am happier now than I have been for several years.
It is not that I had a bad marriage or anything about my W... it was me. I have learned in the past few months to appreciate the moments, to find happiness in the right places. This whole experience has changed me. I have found a new confidence in me, a renewed ability to delight in what there is instead of what is missing, less need to control and more ability to be, less anxiety and a greater ability to sit and be still.
I still have moments in which I am profoundly sad and miss my W and our M. But even those moments have an openness and honesty to them that deepens me.
And you well know that I can still get triggered and lose perspective.. but it is different now and continues to evolve and shift.
You all here have been such a huge part of this for me. When I saw how much you had responded to my simple email question yesterday, I was so touched. Thank you does not seem like enough.
Hi NG- again, your words are my feelings.
I too feel much more at peace since I have been here. More in control of me rather than trying to control everyone else, their days, their lives, their feelings.
Who knows where this journey will take us, but indeed wherever it is, we will be better for it. And hopefully more ready to love than we ever thought possible.
I already see a difference in my relationships with my friends and children. ( my two close friends have actually been happily surprised which felt really good!) i feel I am able to alleviate the pain of my mother towards my H ( she was very
close to him) and even be stronger for her offering her reassurance.
Anyway, what I want to tell you is that I think you have shown nothing but strength, a strong mind and a pure heart. I wish you love and happiness and that for you too your best friend comes back home.
But I know either way you will be the best NG you can be. And that will not change. We may have tried before to change things we didn't like about ourselves, but somehow this time it finally seems real.
Stay the beautiful grace that you are.
Busting out
Ps when I was swimming with my kids this afternoon I went on my back and just started to float. I thought of you!! Lol!!
Where I Sleep by Emeli Sande I think she's Scottish. It's a love song but I was singing it to myself. (cheesy I know!)
I am bookmarking this page. So true and so so beautiful. Thank you.
incredible what you wrote , grace - and the let go poem -
i don't know what your real name is - but Grace suits you well:)
thanks from me to all of you -
zig
The Let Go Poem is amazing. It's been hanging on my fridge for over a year now.
We can sit here and speculate why your w is initiating more contact or why she would ask about the payments.
I did that alot in my sitch and I can still be guilty of it now. People told me the same things - she's afraid you will be angry and screw her over. She is projecting on you, she is testing the waters.. etc. etc.
And for the longest time - I focused on trying to figure out the why's instead of just looking at what I knew about our dynamic and what she was telling me.
I knew that my w was a controlling woman and by not being my 'doormat' self was changing the dynamic. And with change there is fear of the unknown.
I knew she was constantly afraid that I would screw her over. Again - I don't know why and it drove me crazy because I have yet to do a vindictive thing to her - but she felt it regardless.
And instead of taking this information and coming up with goals and a gameplan, I would run on my hamster wheel.
I guess my point is that you don't know why your w is doing this she just is.
How do you want to act to it? Who do you want to be here?
And it can be tricky because like I always say " a similar action can be motivated by very different things".
If you want to respond to your w because that is how you treat a stranger - than do it.
If you want to respond to your w because you don't want her to think that you will screw her over - you may want to reconsider...
..and IMO - this is where the hard work on yourself begins. Being honest with your feelings and your fears. Working through the process of discovering the negative things in your marriage and having the courage to change them, regardless of the outcome.
Yes - the email is a small step. But if you make the best decision in all of these small steps, the change in you will be HUGE.
((( )))
But if you make the best decision in all of these small steps, the change in you will be HUGE.
I think this is something we all need to remember. thank you.
Val, you always make me think.
I listed out my fears, feelings and goals.
I realized that my top fears are that I will be hurt more and that she will want to be friends. This makes NC a safe place.
But then I realized that my fears are victim fears and give away my power. I have the power to not respond and to choose at any moment what role I give her in my life. She can not be my friend unless I choose it. She can not hurt me unless I allow it by having expectations.
NC is not just a place to hide from fears, it is a place to escape the disorientation of watching the "spinning top" she is right now and to orient myself and find my balance by focusing on me.
I have begun that and am not ready to change my focus..
My goal for my email is to no longer be the victim, no longer be the fixer and to take care of me. For right now, that is short communication to address needed issues that does not extend the conversation.
Any 2x4s?
^^No 2x4, that sounds like good stuff. Nice reflections there, NG.
NC is not just a place to hide from fears, it is a place to escape the disorientation of watching the "spinning top" she is right now and to orient myself and find my balance by focusing on me.
It take people a while to learn this. I think in the beginning we see NC as a way to manipulate an outcome. Instead of understanding that it's actually to stop of destructive behaviour and like you say stop looking at them and focusing on us instead.
It's amazing how many places you find yourself playing the victim (i've found) especially when we consider ourselves to be strong independent (why do I always hear Beyonce in my head when I say that) women and yet we see these patterns of handing over power to someone.
You are SO right. You can decide if you want a friendship and what that friendship will look like. I thought the idea of not having H in my life was the end of the world. But I'm understanding now that was based in fear and also what I felt that would say about me. Strangely I'm becoming more okay with more types of outcomes in our sitch.
Interesting..
some minor emails over the past few days about finances
and now I find myself feeling more grief
and looking for more contact from her..
is that addiction or what?
nope it's normal! It's all about managing expectations and it's why I used to do something crazy after a good interaction because you feel closer.
Like Vera said NC is like a warm cozy blanket. It's safe here when you're out of that you have to take more precautions.
is that addiction or what?
Well, it's definitely grief. I find the same thing as Brit. After (any) contact, I feel the loss much more. I find myself having to manage the "after contact" feelings.
You've been doing this long enough, well enough, that you have enough perspective to step back and analyze what's going on. And learn from it. All good. Just painful.
I do the same thing, ng.
Just don't do anything to prolong the contact.
I have noticed in these past few days since I have seen H that I almost feel 'high' after having a good/ positive contact.
It sounds harsh but I have been reminding myself of the email stating he wants to be with OW to bring me down to reality.
Thank you, all. I feel better again. Time and distance is healing.
SD, you have much more contact and hence much more pain. I admire your strength.
Bug, I find myself doing the opposite, I have been making every effort to avoid prolonging contact.
Bustingout, that is a really good strategy to avoid having expectations based on positive contacts. I am so proud of you for how you are dealing with your trip, amazing.
I head out to see family today for the next week. I am so excited and feel truly blessed to spend this time with them. This experience has really deepened my relationships with them. When one door closes, others really do open...
This experience has really deepened my relationships with them.
It's wonderful to find positives about the sitch that also have nothing to do with the sitch.
Have a great week!
Have a great time NG. I will be thinking of you. Enjoy every moment for what it is. Let your mind be free for awhile.
((( )))
Back home!
I had 9 days with family and friends who are like family.
I realized a few things:
That I am more confident and stronger... I did not allow myself to get emotionally caught up in family drama.
I spent a day helping my niece get ready for her wedding day and we had the most incredible time.. my family unfortunately has a great deal of disconnected relationships and she had it tough growing up. i wish i could have been closer both geographically and emotionally then. we spent hours talking about family and she brought up the unconditional love she always felt from me... i felt so honored to be the one to share the pre wedding moments with her. it was magical...
and i realized that i was glad my W was not there, that this moment would not have happened the same if she had been on the trip.
in her list of my faults after the BD, my W said that she felt like she had to take care of me on my trips to see family bc she felt that I was anxious about the family drama.
she was partially right and partially wrong. i did feel more confident this time but i also realized that she misinterpreted...that I just wanted to vent at times or wanted her perspective and she felt like i needed her to fix or take care of me..
i also went out partying one night and had a great time dancing and bar hopping. i had my palm read and first she told me to be more adventurous and to flirt more.
then, she told me that my W and I would get back together... but you know what, I found myself focusing more on the first part than the second... that is growth, I believe.
and i am glad to be back here, i missed you all!!
Welcome back NG I have missed you and wondering how you are!!! And I see you are doing GREAT!!! I was very happy to read your post.
Welcome back again and in look forward to catching up :-)
Glad to see you're back and that you had a lovely trip! It sounds like you had a really positive experience!
Welcome back! I'm glad you had a good time. It's very encouraging to be able to notice changes to old patterns. Yeah!
OMG I missed you!! So so glad you had a great trip!!
That I am more confident and stronger... I did not allow myself to get emotionally caught up in family drama.
It's funny how the lessons we learn to use in our sitch affect all R's. And that through what can be seen as a horrible thing, D or S, we are growing and becoming better overall.
and i realized that i was glad my W was not there, that this moment would not have happened the same if she had been on the trip.
I have these moments...I think they're great.
thank you so much dear friends, and yes, you are friends!
i missed you too and though i could not post while i was gone, i kept an eye on your posts when i could. i am so proud of everyone, the growth i read about is amazing..
time to start a new thread...