Hi!
Its been half a year since my wife dropped the bomb. In three weeks time im sadly to say divorced. We lived together for three months after BD and her behavior during that time really scared me.
She simply couldnt talk to me after BD. At least not about us. She says that she let me take over her life. She hasnt been intentionally cruel but she just didnt care about how I felt and she still doesnt agnowledge the crazy things she has done and still do that hurts me over and over again. Could list hudnreds of things but my question is how long could it take before she gets it?
If I bring up something that she did to me she twists it so that shes not responsible. That its my fault or that its me who misunderstood her.
Now six months later shes so angry with me when I talk to her about us. Still denies everything that happened and twists it to her advantage.
I have read about defence mecanisms and she really has several of them.
She has returned to her twenties in her mind. She even talks like she did then. Alot of cursing and a cooky attitude.
She projects everything on to me. She has done nothing wrong. I am very carlm when I talk to her and still she gets upset every time we talk.
I only have contact with her reguarding kids now. Its no use trying to talk to her anymore.
Can someone relate? Could you please help me to understand. She is not the same person she was before BD. Just miss that person sooo much and have no idea how to reach her.
She projects everything on to me. She has done nothing wrong. I am very carlm when I talk to her and still she gets upset every time we talk.
I only have contact with her reguarding kids now. Its no use trying to talk to her anymore.
Can someone relate? Could you please help me to understand. She is not the same person she was before BD. Just miss that person sooo much and have no idea how to reach her.
Nope she is not the same person.
At least not right now.
I would suggest that she will not ever be the same person again.
We are not the same people that we were when we were twelve.
Maybe in 3-7 years she might start to resemble the core person that she was.
In the mean time you are getting divorced.
Why are you not in LRT?
The only way that you may ever reach her is to STFU and let her go.
Drop all of your EXPECTATIONS to zero.
If you have any LOVE for her wrap it up put it in a box and put it up on the top shelf.
I am not saying that you can not have HOPE but YOU are not going to FIX her.
She either will come out of this on her own or not.
Get on living your life, that is really the only thing that you can do.
Thanks for the reply Cadet!
Guess its just so difficult to understand how she could change over night. No indication what so ever. Everything was exactly as normal.
Have the book and will read that section that you recommended.
Do have feelings for her but to be realistic... Waiting that long and being exposed to further strangeness would be stupid.
Thanks for the advice!
Today is one of those days!
Can feel the pain in my chest!
So tired of this!
Guess im not as strong as I thought id be. Its been half a year. When will it end?
A bit frustrated!
How come my threads just " die" after one or threads!
It is frustrating when you don't have a lot of traffic on your thread. Mine gets like that sometimes, but I just use it to journal my thoughts, so that I can look back and see if there's any improvement or change in my situation.
Perhaps you can tell "us" more about yourself? How old are you? How long were you married? What drew you to your wife when you first met, and visa versa, what drew her to you when she first met you? If you've already said all this in another thread, I apologize. I'll look and see if you have more.
Try to detach emotionally from your W. You know you can't control her, but you can control your actions and reactions. DO NOT bring up R issues, or any discussion about the R. If she brings it up, then just validate what she's saying ... not agree, validate. For instance, "I hear what you're saying W", or "I'm sorry you feel that way." Only agree, if you really, really do agree with whatever she's saying. Don't try and justify past events. She has it in her mind what happened, and at this stage, there is no changing her mind.
Give her space. GAL (get a life). You can join a gym, or a club, or a meet-up group in your area, or hang out more with family and friends, go fishing and relax, whatever thing you enjoy doing that you haven't done in awhile. Life is to be lived, so don't allow her choices diminish your enjoyment of living your life to the best that you can.
Take care.
If the thread doesn't get a lot of traffic or you don't post often, it falls back several pages. Post often, maybe even 2-3 times/day.
If you already have more than one thread that makes it confusing. If you're posting to more than one, post whatever you're posting on the others here. That will help keep it near the top.
Read other posts and read back into the archives. If you read a post that resonates with you, lick on the posters name in the left pane and read others by that person.
There is a wealth of information here.
The pain is terrible but it does go away. What are you doing fro you? What are your GAL activities?
Peter
It's simple, it's easier to blame you than herself. LET HER GO.
Generally the harder they fight, the harder they fall. I'm sure you have your share of the blame (btw are you working on those?).
In order to become a WAW she has to be sure that the marriage is worth destroying. If not the guilt will eat her alive. So they lie to themselves and others. The more you try to dissuade her the more she will fight back.
Everyone remembers the past differently. They see it from their view and their side of the story. In time, that will get more objective because she and you won't be seeing it through anger, hurt, resentment.
You do have to detach it's hard, but worth it for your own sanity and for your M.
Detaching is the hardest thing to do.
So glad you are there guys!
Read my story in Cadets post on top!
My biggest mistake in my marriage was to take too much responsebility, i guess. She didnt so I did and for the sake of the family that was a good thing. Now she says shes stronger and she felt like she let me take over her life. Problem is she cant really say anything else about it cant really se beyond her own words to her part in this.
An example on how she cant speak to me. I called her and we/ I tlked to her an hour and during that hour she wrote. She sat on the other and wn wrote what I said. Couldnt answer my questions. Sent me a letter a coulpe of weeks later where she tried to explain but it just made no logic. Spent half the letter yelling at me and my sister whom has not spoken to her since this began. Not out of spite but because ex hurt me so much.
She flirted with a guy in a bar a month before this started and she said it was nothing but she felt something for him that made her question her feelings towards me. Well! The rest is up for speculation!
Now she writes im an idiot on FB because I keep it short with her.
Today she texted me wanting me to take the kids one night even though its her week. She didnt have time to pick them up before a party started. The party is with her relatives and theres going to be other children there. She could have easily sent one of her sister there to pick them up. I have plans so I told her im sorry.
As for getting a life! Well kind of a slow starter. Go to the gym every other week and hook up with friends on that weekend. The kids week I try to fill with fun stuff together.
I am only friendly with her. Short but friendly! Her anger and stupidity amazes me.
lick on the posters name in the left pane and read others by that person.
Clicking it might work better, licking it will just make your screen a mess!
Hahaha!
Tried lickng! Nothing happend
^^^Hahahaha, thanks for the laugh!
Its raining!
Watching a cartoon with D before we are off to kindergarden and work. Have been a real pain in the butt with my co- workers. Its like I couldnt stop mysel getting feedback from people. Its natural I guess but last week I decided to stop. Its amazing how difficult it is because of her strange behavior. It just continues and I feel the need to vent in order to do the right thing every time she does something new.
The funny thing is that most of the advice given I already have in mind.
Guess Ill vent here instead. Seems the like the right place with the right people!
Having trouble with LRT! We dont see eachother accept for dropping of kids and other wise its NC. I havent texted her for two months. She texts me once or twice a week reguarding kids. Nothing important though! Feels kind of strange that she does. I keep it short but polite.
She called me an idiot on FB because I kept the communication short. She removed it a couple of hours later. I dont have FB but a friend told me. I first thought Id say say nothing but later did. She just smiled at me and said it was time to do some cleaning on her FB. That same day she wrote on her wall:
Me and my ex are a closed chapter. We want minimum contact. If anybody feels the need to tell ex about my life I would like you to remove me as your friend.
Sooo imature! Our life has nothing to do with FB. But theres a pattern here. She is spending alot of time on FB writing 5-10 posts a day. Its all about partying and showing how good mother she is. She has gotten no professional help so I guess she needs to confirm that shes a good person.
Tragic!
Hi Peter -
Sorry to hear that your W is acting out on FB. My H also posts multiple times per day with things about how awesome his life is (and multiple friends have pointed this out to me, I'm not actively on there). Your W's immature action in making that post is obvious and I'm sure it will come across that way to others.
I think it would have been better to not mention the original fb post to your W but I think you know that, too.
She wants minimum contact. Give it to her and focus on your kids. If she calls you out again for being brief in your communication with her, I think it's fair to remind her that she advertised on FB that you both (her words) wanted "minimum contact."
When she texts you about the kids, do you respond?
Thanks for your reply!
Yes I do respond reguarding the kids or if she has a question. But a couple of times she just made statements which didnt need any reply. So when I didnt reply she texted me back saying. But really...
Theres no way of knowing how to act with her. She finds reason to be mad att me for the smallest of things. I still have the patience to keep my temper but need to get it out at the gym. Im accually impressed by my way of keeping cool. It will make a difference in the future. But the less she gets the more she tries to take and im affraid that sooner or later I will/ perhaps have to snapp at her.
My mind set is that shes unstable and sick. Helps alot to think that way.
I do know that she has to demonize me to be able to cope and continue her path.
Acctually gives me some kind of kick being just plain me. Because thats why she acts like this. Will not be the person she needs me to be.
Im sure youll agree its the rught way to act!
Thanks for listening.
Im accually impressed by my way of keeping cool. It will make a difference in the future. But the less she gets the more she tries to take and im affraid that sooner or later I will/ perhaps have to snapp at her.
You control your reactions. You don't have to snap at her. That's what she's trying to bait you into doing so that she can further justify her victim position. Don't take the bait. Be ready for it.
Verab754!
I thing I do understand how this whole thing works by now. That she cant surrender to her faults. Will not thake the bait and snap.
Just so tired of it and if it takes years or maby never for her to " get it" I guess thats what I have to live with. For the kids!
Its undertandabe why great conflicts occur between former spouses but I never really thought that it took so much will power just to be able to cope with the other spouses confusion.
One week until we sign the papers.
A single divorced dad. Age 39!
Thats not so bad, is it?
Talked to a co- worker today!
She said that her sister totally flipped out and left her husband after 14 years without any real explanation. Everyone understood that there was something wrong with her.
A year later thet remarried.
No one knows what the future will bring but I guess the moving on part is the only thing I can controll right now!
Spending the weekend with D. The only reason i force myself out of bed every morning. And its the only god feeling I have right now!!
Why does she text me 3-5 times a week reguarding nothing of importance?
I never text her accept for answering her questions.
Really cant figure it out. She knows I want as little contact as possible but this is driving me nuts!
Thoughts?
It sounds like she's trying to bait you into a response that she can use against you (based on how she reacted to things on FB) or she is trying to get you to pursue her again. Keep distancing. Maybe try responding to her questions a little later than you normally would (unless it's about kids). Make her wonder what you're up to, but don't tell her. You will drive yourself crazy trying to figure out what she's doing, just keep the focus on you.
Thanks!
Yep! Its probably one of those two! Theres two huge things she hans mentioned at all. One is getting the rest of her stuff the other signing the divorce papers.
But she can ask me to send picture of D or ask me some other nonsens.
But when Ds at the doctors she doesnt text to see how it went???
Confusing but im not at least surprised. I woul like to tell her that I want NC but I have. Several times. It doesnt sink in...
Well! Guess she wants me around even though she doesnt want me!
You don't have to tell her you want NC, you just have to give her NC.
Latest text ten minutes ago!
She was sooo friendly and then this came!
Should we alternate midsummer like christmas? I replied whos week is it? Mine she replied. I answered Why complicate things its your week!
She didnt reply. Guess she got mad! Guess she wanted to party!
Soo tired of her games! I havent done anything wrong and still she finds ways of getting mad.
Going slightly mad!
Had to call her today because of matters with D. She mixes up dates and gives an impression if being very confused. I asked her how she was doing. She said she was ok. I heard she was mad and cold. I asked her why she was angry with me. She said shes angry at everything about me. I asked her to be specific but she couldnt. Brought up the fact that I couldnt have anything to do with her as long as shes angry. She slammed the phone on me.
Think shes on her way down even further. And everythings my fault. Havent done anything to hurt her. Hope she gets the NC now!
Really need your take on this!
IC recomended me to write a letter... Making my bounderies clear. This is what I came up with. What should I change?
Such a shame that you destroyed my feelings you. I want you to know that it is enough now!
Unfortunately, you have passed the limit that I can manage, and forced me to write this letter so that I can be as clear as possible with how our relationship will be in the future.
You have been given so many opportunities to back off and reflect. You have chosen to ignore these opportunities and therefore this is how it has to be:
You live your life and I live mine! Your choice!
When you have our daughter shes yours. I do not want to be involved with solving your everyday problems.
When I have our daughter, I expect nothing from you. When you live your life, you live your life.
This means that I am no longer there for you.
I do not want any drama. It is important that you understand this.
But you leave me no choice!
I believed in you! But no more!
You fuc.ed up everything!
From now on only important things about D!
You should scrap the whole thing and start over.
I don't think your IC meant for it to be a b@tch session. Your letter is practically leaking full of hate, anger, fear and frustration. Makes you sound like a pouty kid.
Take a deep breath and start again.
Thanks MR Bond!
Yep! Feelings!
So hard to leave them out of it! I have tried to avpide confrontation for so ling now! Trying to withdraw my interactions hoping she would understand that im not there anymore. But she doesnt get it. Thats my main problen. Dont want any drama but how the hell do Get her to understand.
The greatest problem is that she still needs me. Parts of me. And she knows me and who I am as a perosn and shes taking advantage of it.
I just want to be left alone to heal.
What to do!
I was also going to repost the draft and cross everything out. I agree with Bond.
What, exactly, are your boundaries? Start there with facts, not feelings. Work from there without including any blaming or shaming statements.
Well!
The biggest problem is that she needs me! She cant handle every aspect of her life with out kids. And that would be just fine. I could be there for the sake of our kids.
But... She wants to live a paralell life. Where she can say that im an idiot on FB and still expect my support in "real life".
My bounderies should be well known to her. She doesnt get to have two parts of me.
Perhaps a simple: when its ypur week its your week and when its my week its mine, will do? Not the best co- parentig concept but perhaps itjs tje only way for now!
Spelling and other errors is due to phone issues!
PeterP.
The best way to recover from her is to not have to see, or hear her or be affected by any of her judgements.
I'm actually a fan of waiting for a while to take on full partial custody of the children until you have re-built yourself and life without her. It takes time, easily up to 2 years to fully pull yourself out of the carnage.
Your goal is to create a life completely independant of her, all of your validation and confidence comes outside of her, and she cannot rock your boat through other third parties who are listening to her who happen to be in your circle.
"...hoping she would understand that im not there anymore. But she doesnt get it."
that's because you're still "there". you haven't detached. you are still in the game and she's making the calls.
you'll know you're detached when you can write the letter and there are no "feelings" in it. when it simply states (in a nonthreatening, matter-of-fact way) what you need to interact with her.
think of her as a sales clerk in a store who is acting immaturely and rudely. you don't care about the clerk personally but you want the bad behavior to stop without having a huge argument about it.
the old k.i.s.s rule.
I feel too much and she takes advantage of it... I get it!
She doesnt deserve a letter! My actions will be enough!
That means that I continue teaching her where my bounderies start.
She hasnt got it yet! Four months int this. Need to cut her off completely without drama!
A slow start but she will get it...
PeterP,
They get a ego boost off of seeing your reactions, off of you getting red in the face, off your legs getting weak around them, off of your voice now having NO CONTROL or impact on them, off how powerless you are to them.
It [censored], but once you understand that there is nothing you can do and if you appear to try it will backfire on you.
DLS,
"They get a ego boost off of seeing your reactions, off of you getting red in the face, off your legs getting weak around them,"
That's total mindreading. You don't know his W and you don't know his sitch. Neither do I. But it seems like comments like that aren't helping.
The comments don't help. I don't have to mind read. I know that the affair partners typically get off on the power they have over their betrayed spouses.
PeterP,
So what do you want? Do you want your M to work out?
Either way, you're going to have to distance yourself emotionally so that the anger doesn't keep popping up. This is more for the sake of your kids since you will have to still parent them together. They will feed off your insecurities and what they need now is a rock.
DLS,
"They get a ego boost off of seeing your reactions, off of you getting red in the face, off your legs getting weak around them,"
That's total mindreading. You don't know his W and you don't know his sitch. Neither do I. But it seems like comments like that aren't helping.
I agree.
I dont want the woman she has become! So I guess my answer is no I dont want her back!
I have lost hope that she will ever figure out her behavior and find herself again. I simply dont think she has it in her. The woman she was before BD is a whole other matter. But I havent seen her since November and I dont think shes strong enough to look inside of herself to understand her problems.
Its time to take care of me. But I want to avoid the drama. I havent got a crystal ball. The future is only in our minds and seldom turns out exactly an we thought so keeping distance and moving forward for me and D is the only thing I can control right now. If she wakes up. She wakes up! I would deal with that big if then.
They usually don't wake up.
DLS,
Seriously? Again, comments like that are not helpful and flat out wrong.
If you stayed around before disappearing before, you would have seen that many do "snap out of it". However whether or not the M is saved is another issue. Because what caused the A in the first place is a personal flaw in themselves that some do and do not want to face.
I recall the last time you posted, you had the same type of comments, but refused to divulge your story. Then you disappeared until now. It always sounded like you were burned by your W but that's your deal. If you want to make comments about how it's hopeless to save your D why are you even posting?
"I dont want the woman she has become! So I guess my answer is no I dont want her back!"
That's fine. So go ahead and file. Just to let you know though, many people went through the same thing you did and their W's did change. The biggest thing you have to do is get rid of the anger. If not for you , then your kids.
"I have lost hope that she will ever figure out her behavior and find herself again. I simply dont think she has it in her."
You're not her so you don't know. You never thought she'd cheat on you, so you could be wrong here. Just saying.
"But I havent seen her since November and I dont think shes strong enough to look inside of herself to understand her problems. "
Again mindreading. I get it that your pride has been damaged and that you feel humiliated and walked on. Everyone here has felt the same way. Whether or not your M survives, you would do well to find a way to deal with your emotions in a healthy way.
So! MrBond!
Mindreading out the window!
Whats ny next step if I dont file and she stays quiet! We should have done it last Thursday but not a sound from her???
You can't keep expecting her to do something or not do something. YOu can't control her and you have to get rid of your expectations. Do you like it when someone "expects" you to do what they want you to do? Of course not.
First things first. Ultimately what is it that you want?
Guess I still have feelings for her in some twisted way! Shes not the woman I love but shes in there somewhere!
No! Hope is also out the window! Seems like I have given up. Gone NC as much as it is possible! Still! She contacts me and needs my help. Its like she cant let me go and she tries every way she can to keep in contact. Only reguarding kids and when she needs help. I do help out when I feel its ok for me and my bounderies.
Tired of analyzing her behavior but trying to do whats "right" when it comes to the kids.
Have no clue what else to do. She does take som sort of advantage of my kindness. She knows me. So Im trying to be less of me with NC I guess.
Yes... I do want her back! Dang its hard to admit that after everything thats happened!
I feel the same way. W is with OM and everything in me says I should just leave her, but I still love her, I'm so torn.
Mine is already done. I don't want anyone to go thru useless agony. At some point you have to listen to them. I have my own opinions on the matter, and it's not intended to hurt anyone.
I also understand when someone says "I don't want the person that he/she has become". It didn't happen over night, one week, one month or even one year in many cases, it was years...
Problem is it happened in a split second!
Let me try to explain the last 30 days before BD!
Our love life was exactly the same as always. She said she loved me several times and she sent texts wit the words hugs and so on...
Nothing different from normal what so ever!
I invested 10.000 us D in a car for her! We laught alot during that last month and EVERYTHING WAS NORMAL!
I have gone over it time and time again but I really couldnt see any signs of her pulling away from my!
And now... Shes in her apartment living her life ang she says hes happy and content!
Me... Really dont get it but trying to start some kind of life on my own!
but dls, we come here for hope, for solutions, and for guidance. you're negative posts reflect your own bitterness and as mr. bond said, are not helpful for the people coming to this bb.
i'm sorry your w did not change her mind about your m. however, it does not mean other spouses won't. we all have different stories.
i think it would help you if you accepted some responsibility for your sitch. maybe you were too negative in your r with you w? i don't know. i'm not trying to judge but your comments are causing people more pain. please think about it.
thank you.
So...
Im a teacher!
Dont know if I own all knowledge that our kids need. But I do know our kids. I have seen many children suffering because of parents acting crazy towards eachother. I have delt with sexual abuse, blaming the child, adults using children to "win" , children taking their own lifes bc divorce and so on...
Now its my kids! Shes lost all controll! Taking care of our kids is my meaning in life!
At least until she wakes up!
In my situation I accepted we just don't get along. She didn't like to listen to me. And I'm not meaning that she didn't do what I wanted her to do. Over and over again she proved that my opinion was not even valueable enough to be evaluated, my needs where not important, not even to be considered.
I'm not mad about it today, I'm happy to be released and find someone who values time with me.
I'm not intending to be negative to others. I was just telling them to stop putting eggs in the basket of their spouses who have left and take care of themself. And to listen to what is really being said to them.
Didnt get any advice! Should i push for the signing or not? I dont want to but as long as she stays quiet she has some sort of control over me. And doesnt feel right!
Since you already are there. You may as well get onto "living your life". It's as if you are single. you are! Your maritial partner has left.
I'd date and everything, enjoy the opposite sex, etc. I personally would not have sex, I'd rather leave first - but everything up to that point.
So!
Today I told her we had to sign the papers. That I wanted less contact than before and that she needed to back of!
She totaly lost it!
Both her sisters called wondering what happened!
I told them that I couldnt take anymore of her confusion and that it was high time to look out for myself.
Perhaps now she will get it!
You did the right thing, although can you detail more about what exactly was said and what happened?
So!
Today I told her we had to sign the papers. That I wanted less contact than before and that she needed to back of!
She totaly lost it!
Both her sisters called wondering what happened!
I told them that I couldnt take anymore of her confusion and that it was high time to look out for myself.
Perhaps now she will get it!
Congrats, you did right. I'm glad you didn't do it for reaction. You must feel much better now, it's like removing the weight from your back.
Well!
Its kind of like she blames me for everything. Shes so angry and the only thing I can think of is that her reality didnt quite become like she wanted it to be! Been seperated for four months and she should have carlm down by now
I told her that I wanted less contact. Then she says that I neednt help her with D when it comes to her working hours. And that that will effect D negative. I told her that less contact doent mean that I will back down on my words. She creats assumptions that trigger her. She said our relationship has become like a coulpe of friends who dont speak to eachother at all reguarding their kids. I told her that couple isnt us. That she cant compare them with us.
For some reason she doesnt want minimum contact. She wants me around.
And I need space. To heal! She doesnt get it at all. Her words are all I did was break up with you. In her mind its nothing.
For me everything!
NC is the only way to stay clear of her confusion and anger.
"NC is the only way to stay clear of her confusion and anger."
This goes for both of you. You have to understand that she's acting out like all the other WASs. The anger, confusion, etc. It's all pat of the behavior.
Were you snapping at her when you were talking to her? The key is to tell her in a strong and confident manner what you are going to tolerate.
No snapping! Thats her department! I have really tried to avoid conflict so many times when she shown her anger towards me. I have been carlm, most of the times, and adult when facing her. She has several times asked me why I didnt get angry at her. I just said whats the point! She wanted me to get angry. It would have made it easier on her.
Week befor she moved out I snapped. I had faced more then three months of her confusion so I let her have my anger verbaly. She got scared. Not my intention but I couldnt hold it in anymore.
"She has several times asked me why I didnt get angry at her. I just said whats the point!"
No you should have told her it's because you've chosen not to be angry.
"She wanted me to get angry. It would have made it easier on her."
Mindreading again.
"Week befor she moved out I snapped. I had faced more then three months of her confusion so I let her have my anger verbaly. She got scared. Not my intention but I couldnt hold it in anymore."
You're going to have to learn to control it for the sake of your D. So what's the current sitch now and when do you plan to file?
"She has several times asked me why I didnt get angry at her. I just said whats the point!"
No you should have told her it's because you've chosen not to be angry.
"She wanted me to get angry. It would have made it easier on her."
Mindreading again.
"Week befor she moved out I snapped. I had faced more then three months of her confusion so I let her have my anger verbaly. She got scared. Not my intention but I couldnt hold it in anymore."
You're going to have to learn to control it for the sake of your D. So what's the current sitch now and when do you plan to file?
He could say "I'm not angry because I'm DONE."
In Denmark you first sign once and bc of children you get to sign again half a year later then everythings done. We should have signed last thursday last time but yesterday, after nothing from her, I valled to say lets sign.
After that we are divorced.
Wonderful week! Nc until today!
She texted me that she picked up her last stuff! Great! More space!
But... Told her monday we needed to sign the divorce papers one last time to make it official. I expected she would leave them here for me to sign today. But nothing! She hasnt said anything this week about it and didnt leave them today!
What should I do? Remind her or leave it at that! I do not speculate over the reasons! Only need advice! What to do!
Laughing at my own post now! I know what I should do! Just go over there and make it happen! Simple right! Sorry to say wrong... Yep! Guess I still have some thinking to do!
Maby its because its not that important for me anymore. But the label " divorced" is. Dont really know.
Dont really care whats going on in her brain. Have to get mine in order first!
Share
Going on a holiday with the kids! Like we did as a family for the past 10 years. Had to call her to informher because I needed to borrow a couple of days when she has the kids.
She cried during our conversation. Didnt say anything about anything other then the facts of the holiday.
I did good. She cant afford something like that and I think its important for the kids to know that even if our lives have totally changed we can still do some of the fun stuff we did before this whole thing started.
Creating new memories!
Got a letter from court today!
Will be divorced in a months time!
About time!
Okay so you're pushing for a D and no longer interested in saving your M?
It doesnt matter what I wanted. She pushed. She initiated this and she has seen it through.
I didnt stand a chance. She wants this and theres nothing I can do to stop it. And honestly... Its not my call and it never was.
I guess I find relief in the fact that I treated her ok even though she became a horrible person. Im no longer holding my breath when it comes to her waking up n
She has become a whole different person and hasnt shown signs of waking up at all. Shes happy she says.
Then I guess I have to start getting happy myself. Think I have done everything that I can. She simply doesnt care about me. So I had to stop caring about her even though I wanted something else.
You seem detached, and accepted the outcome of your M. A good thing to be. Now is the time to really rev up your GAL activities, I would think.
Yep!
Have accepted the outcome and I dont think she will wake up!
Was hoping for so long but it hurt too much! The future is now and I guell theres no need to speculate anymore.
Sat and tragic but this was all about her and now its time to be all about me.
To be honest it really hasn't been that long for you.
"but this was all about her and now its time to be all about me."
This is why you didn't last. It was never all about her. It was about the both of you and the parts you did that contributed to getting to that point.
"I guess I find relief in the fact that I treated her ok even though she became a horrible person."
No she was hurt based off things that were done before and is just reacting to it.
She has become a whole different person and hasnt shown signs of waking up at all."
You keep mentioning this idea of her "waking up". She's not in a coma. She just saw all the conflict the two of you had and felt that the better alternative was to leave rather than being with you.
"Think I have done everything that I can."
Honestly not really. The majority of your posts were talking about you and how hurt you've been and how crazy your W is. It's like you're still keeping score which is probably one of the reasons why your W left.
That just seems to be the truth. If you honestly changed without having to keep score and see your W as a woman who has been hurt as opposed to someone in a zombie-like sleep, then things would turn around.
Thanks Bond!
Yes its still early.
And of course she was discontent with her life and me. But prior to this we didnt have and conflicts. No arguments, nothing that I believe could have forced her to do this. Thats the hard part.
Those few reasons for leaving she has told me seems in a way fabricated . I have never said that to her and I do understand her points.
Her goals now:
Be a good mother
Be a good friend
Be who she wants to be
Her reasons for leaving:
I controlled the remote control. ( yep! Thats one of her reasons)
If she stent time with a friend I sometimes texted her reguarding (I dont remember... Neither does she and it was probably nothing of importance) and then she felt stressed.
She let me take over her life!
Thats about it!
I dont play the blame game with her but I do want to be left alone and that makes her furious. She has destroyed my life and I need time to heal.
She on the other hand acts very confused. Writing that im an idiot om FB but in real life she still needs my help because she cant sort her new life with studies and work!
Dont know what to do. So 180 and leaving her alone is the only thing that seems to work for me. I really feel that it doesnt matter what I do she still angry with me.
she's probably still angry because she thinks you just don't get it. maybe she not clear enough with her reasons?
"she let me take over her life!"
this stood out for me because of my sitch. part of the reason my H left is because i became a bitter person.
i became bitter because i failed to communicate correctly what my needs and boundaries were in our marriage. i tried to make my husband happy by letting his goals and dreams become mine and i "lost" myself.
he became so used to almost everything being about him and what made him happy that when i finally did want some things of my own that made me happy, he saw it as betrayal. he didn't want to share.
maybe that's what she's saying? did you "take over" and fail to consider her and just assume, as your wife, she should like what you like and go along?
i'm not saying this is what happened but it's worth thinking about.
Thanks Ss!
Well being a bit analytic the last two years she has worked 100% and studied 100%. She slowly became distant from me and the children. Not by choise but because she " had to" in order to be able to handle everything.
She didnt have time for anything else and that, I believe, is the core of her decision.
When she didnt have time for her husband and children, home and free time to " play" she simply gave up and ran. Somehow it was my fault. But I truly believe that I did everything I was supposed to do as a husband. I supported her but I should have seen the warning signs.
She felt trapped! It really didnt have to do with me. I have talked to her about it but she says that it wasnt the stress. She claims shes become stronger and now know what she doesnt want. Me!
But she has changed so much that her behavior shows me that she really didnt want to be married anymore. That im just a small part of this. She partys as often as she can, has ever changed the way she speaks to people ( cursing and being cool), has new friends that she really didnt like before this started.
Those things has nothing to do with me. Thats the new her. A different person all toghether.
Her olkder sister and I still have contact and she says that even she misses the old person. And it is her firm belief that she is in some kind of crisis. Older sister is a therapist!
Dont really know how to reach her so I leave her alone. My actions will not go unnoticed. Holiday abroad with our kids. GAL! And simply moving forward.
The future is not carved in stone so taking care of me. Being an even better version of me will make me feel better.
Kids being dropped off today! Tomorrow we are on a plane to a warmer country!
Feel happy but strange at the same time. First holiday without ex.
Had a GREAT holiday with my kids!
Nedd your thoughts about this:
Why cant they see their own faults
« on: Today at 12:21:39 AM »
Feel the need to rant!
My sister and my ex have to work together in the same building for a couple of weeks. They havent talked to eachother since this mess started and yesterday was the first day. I dont speek to ex about anything exept kids but my sister said it was very strange to see ex and both like the person she was and resent the person she has become. Needless to say they didnt speak to eachother.
A month before BD ex and sister whent out partying. Ex sat in the bar the whole night talking to a guy. She introduced him to my sister " dont you have somebody in your life that you never will forget... This is...). At the end of the night ex asked sister not to say anything to me. " He wouldnt understand).
My sister didnt say anything but felt bad the entire month. After BD she told me and broke down crying.
Ex first said it ment nothing. Two months later that it could be one part of her decision. Half a year later that she felt something for him that made her question her feelings towards me.
Mind you there was no affair and her feelings have been very confusing for her during this ordeal. She has several times "found new reasons" and changed her stories to try to be more clear. But that has made her reasons even more confusing. So I guess she just confused.
My sister never talked to ex after that. She found no reason when she saw how ex treated me.
This is my problem. What I cant understand.
Because my sister didnt contact ex. Ex hates her. She says that she could have at least called her and asked "what the F are you doing" , her words. I explained the situation that my sister has always loved my ex but cant grasp her behavior and therefor decided not to get involved. And that ex couldnt explain to me why she did this so talking to my sister would make no difference.
Ex has told me she reguards my sister as dead to her. That she is a spineless pussi!
Sister hasnt don anything to her. So sick!
Even exes both sisters understand. Why the hell doesnt she!
Think I understand its all about defence mecanisms and not being able to see her own short commings. Any input?
Its really hard for me knowing that my sister and in all honesty even my ex have to see eachother with all this crap thats happened. They used to be such good friends.
8 months post BD! Today im divorced!
This thread is dead!
Support?
hi peter, sorry you're feeling so alone.
i think you'll have to let your W and your family have the relationships they desire. they will either fix it themselves, or not. you will do best to stay out of it and let them handle it.
what W needs to understand, IMO, is that you value your r with her and it comes first, but you will also keep your r with your family, no matter how she feels about them. that's only reasonable.
is your D final? i'm sorry i'm not completely up with your sitch.
Thanks scaredsilly!
D was finalized a couple of days ago! Didnt really matter how prepared I thought I was. So tough now!
Thinking back she really became crazy! And she still is! I have asked her for time and Nc because I need time to heal! She hasnt respected that at al and doesnt thing shes done anything wrong. Last night she called me, drunk from a consert, asking if D was up because they played her song...
Just told her no shes asleep! Then she hung up. She knew she was asleep since it was severel hours past her bedtime. Its mind games! Shes not thinking at all!
Immidiate gratification is the only words I can think of! She does whatever she feels like doing and doesnt thing further then that!
She truly isnt the woman she was before BD! Dont know what else to do! She doesnt know the word respect or empathy!
I do treat her and meet her with respect thinging this is some kind of fase! Shes so mad at me though! For no apparent reason! Maby becauce she simply doesnt understand herself ang projects her own feelings on to me!
Dont know what else to do! Shes lost it! Hopefully shell fing her way somehow!
This part really spoke to me. Thinking about the FOG ang how some MLCers come out of it but some dont:
Wounded individuals experience, sometimes accurately, the necessity to remain unconscious of certain traumas and of their Shadow in order to preserve a level of stability. In order to maintain the illusion of self-respect and the integrity of the false self they have come to depend on, they may similarly need to remain unaware of their responsibility for the impact of past hurtful or destructive actions or non-actions that their defenses have driven them to commit or omit, about which they would otherwise feel deeply ashamed or guilty. While ultimate resolution will eventually require consciousness and healing of such wounds, reintegration of exiled parts, and acceptance of responsibility, some may, either temporarily or indefinitely, lack the strength and support to undergo this process.
So she texts me out of the blue!
"I am a kind person and I do have empathy. Its just our situation that became a little crazy"
I replied that I know she has been a kind person before this started but that I was sorry because I feel she hasnt shown any empathy since BD.
I also told her that she will understand one day. Why things became like this.
So...
My ex texted me and said shes sorry for treating me and hurting me like she has done. That she wished shed done things differently and that the outcome with limited contact would have turned out better for everyone.
No indication for a possible R. Just a guilt- text!
For me thats a start bc even though she wrote me a four page letter explaining her views ( a horrible selfish letter) three months ago this is the first words I kind of take as true. That shes starting to understand...
We talked on the phone after her text ( yes, I called her) bc I wanted to explain my point of view. I didnt say anything about how wrong I tjought It was to say this in a text. I just said Its good that she starts to understand.
But I also told her that theres no way around a talk. If she wants our relationship to work better us and our kids I need this. And I told her she needs it too. And thats the truth!
I no longer have any hope for us but I do have hope that she will understand. Just get it! She has tried to explain everything to me but she now realizes that even she doesnt understand the big WHY!
As an MLC- expert at this point I think I need your help.
I have told her that when she feels like talking Im here.
Whats the does and donts during this conversation?
I need her to own up to the devestation but realize I have to walk on egg shells! What could I expect?
I know this is her crisis and I cant make her understand. But there should be a right way to talk about what has happened and a wrong way!
Could you give me some input?
Here's my advice. Stop expecting her to act the way you want her to. She won't show any remorse until she's ready. In fact, what you keep saying are things that she doesn't understand are things that she does understand, but just not in the way you want her to.
"But there should be a right way to talk about what has happened and a wrong way!"
True, but right now she feels like she's doing it the right way. Or at least in a way that she's happy with. Talking is how YOU communicate. Not hers. At least, not now.
"But I also told her that theres no way around a talk. If she wants our relationship to work better us and our kids"
You keep telling her and demanding things like this, she will automatically shut down. There is a way around a talk and she's doing it. I don't see where she wants the relationship with you to work better so you really can't push that.
Thanks!
So its the waiting game then! Well... I guess I knew this all along!
Yes! She chooses not to talk! Nine months! But at least now she is starting to understand the magnitude of her decision and I guess thats a good thing. Sure I whished things would be better between us.
But as long as she keep running from herself with attention seeking on fb, dating sites and new friend she will not or wont be open for anything.
She knows shes made mistakes. But if she truly cared she would contact me.
I have never judged her to her face and kept my opinions to myself. I understand that she does everything in her power to feel good. To fill the void.
I would say its the wrong way but who am I to judge!
Oh! Bond!
Never told her anything about what woul change our relationship! No pressure, no demands, no blaming!
Even thoug I feel differently
No. You don't wait. You live your life the way you want to. You don't wait for her to come back.
"She knows shes made mistakes."
Again, you're mind reading.
"No pressure, no demands, no blaming!"
You just said you did that in your phone call to her.
Yes! I agree I told her that on the phone. And I understand! Is it mind reading when she said she wished shed done it ( the break up) differently! She knows! She is simply not interested to do the work. Shes happy, I guess!
Im not waiting for her. But im hoping shell come around some day. Dont know if theres a difference really.
"She is simply not interested to do the work."
Mindreading. She just doesn't want to do the work you expect her to.
"Shes happy, I guess!"
More mindreading.
Man... Or Mr Bond!
I do appriciate ypur comments but you are not being constructive!
Give me some advice instead!
Mindreading aside!
Look, you're looking for a specific plan of action and what you fail to understand is that there isn't one. You want to come up with some type of strategy that will magically open her up, see her faults, be remorseful of everything she's done to you and your family.
Sorry to tell you this but there isn't any. What you can do is to learn the SKILLS needed to navigate the course and enter into openings when they come up. Really listen to what I wrote. SKILL Number 1 you need to learn is to not have expectations. That also is where the mindreading comes into play. Really start thinking about what she wants and WHY she wants it. Not just what she says, but what her words are behind her actions.
Next, concentrate on yourself and your actions rather than hers. Look at the people who have been successful recently. They gave up the thought of their spouse and concentrated on themselves.
Read things other than DB and DR to understand how a woman's mind works. Rebuild yourself and start documenting here what you've been doing for yourself. That's how you fix your problem.
Thanks!
Looking at her actions after she moved out...
She wants to be single! Have two new female friends. Wants to party as much as she can.
In her letter to me she said she wanted to be a good friend. A good mother. And be herself.
So! Even if I dont agree with her point of view about taking over her life. I understand how she feels. In fact she acts purly on feelings. Everything she did to me she justifies by saying that thats what she felt like at the time. No thoughts about how ai would feel about it. She just didnt care.
Shes paying alot of attention to her looks. Toenailpainting, two new tatoos, new hairstyle and so on...
Shes entitled to do whatever she needs to do to feel good about herself.
Shes extremly attention seeking. Posts on FB 5-8 times a day. Dating sites etc.
Im not snooping but since we have a friends they love to tell me. Even though I have said ai dont want to know!
She said she let me take over her life. So now she does whatever she wants.
I believe she felt trapped. This is how she feels and thats her truth. So sad she thinks that way though. She has always done what she pleases so I really cant understand it. The only example she has given meis this. Sometimes when she was at a friends place I texted her. None of us can remember what the texts was about but she explains tjat it made her stressed. She never told me this before and in all honesty! If I needet to say something to her when she was with a friend why shouldnt I. Cant get my mind around it.
As for me.
Hanging with friends, reading alot of books on this subject, working out and struggeling with being confortable on my own. Every other week my daughter is here and that gives my life meaning right now.
Any contact between us is 95% initiated by her and mostly about our two kids. Also have a stepson whom I love as my own. He lives with her and every other weekend with his dad.
So no expectations it is then... Thanks again!
I don't know how much more bluntly to put it. Read through your post you just put up. It is FULL of mindreading.
"She wants to be single! Have two new female friends. Wants to party as much as she can."
"I understand how she feels."
"In fact she acts purly on feelings."
"No thoughts about how ai would feel about it. She just didnt care."
"Shes extremly attention seeking."
"I believe she felt trapped. This is how she feels and thats her truth."
"She has always done what she pleases"
The bottomline is that SHE probably doesn't know how she feels or why she's doing what she's doing. So the more you mindread, or assume you know how she's feeling, the worse the situation can become.
"Hanging with friends, reading alot of books on this subject, working out and struggeling with being confortable on my own. Every other week my daughter is here and that gives my life meaning right now. "
Exactly! Just do this.
I don't know how much more bluntly to put it. Read through your post you just put up. It is FULL of mindreading.
"She wants to be single! Have two new female friends. Wants to party as much as she can."
"I understand how she feels."
"In fact she acts purly on feelings."
"No thoughts about how ai would feel about it. She just didnt care."
"Shes extremly attention seeking."
"I believe she felt trapped. This is how she feels and thats her truth."
"She has always done what she pleases"
The bottomline is that SHE probably doesn't know how she feels or why she's doing what she's doing. So the more you mindread, or assume you know how she's feeling, the worse the situation can become.
"Hanging with friends, reading alot of books on this subject, working out and struggeling with being confortable on my own. Every other week my daughter is here and that gives my life meaning right now. "
Exactly! Just do this.
Thanks MrBond!
There is no doubt in my mind that shes confused about her feelings. She doest have answers. Guess its one of the hardest things about this.
So...
Spent time with a couple of friends having a BBQ in my guarden! Frist time I chose to not talk about ex and I can tell you it made a world of difference.
Have had so much need for feedback among friends that I think I at some point went over the line! Not talking about it today made my friends relax and I felt good!
Signs of my own self again!
But still venting here! But tather to you guys then friends right! My friends simply dont understand!
Second new male friend in three weeks! D told me they had a visitor today. Seccond man in three weeks!
We promised eachother not to introduce any new person without telling eachother.
Today I hate her!
About getting a life!
About the smaller things right! Often thought about me GAL during this! Understand now that its the little things.
- waking up next to d! Her first words are always: daddy... What are we doing do today? And thats a challenge!
- working out and seeing progress feels great!
- a phone call to a friend
- more time spent with family then ever before!
- reading books!
- a beer with friends!
Its a slow process but im content with taking it one day at a time!
I have been thinking alot about this!
Why is she angry all the time at me? I truly havent done her anything to provoke her. I have asked her why and she says shes angry at everything I do. I asked her to give me one example so that I could try to understand and maby change. She just says shes angry at everything.
This is why I went as much NC as I possible could. I got so tired of her yelling, using the F- word and clicking me when we talked on the phone.
And everytime she texts me I have to be really careful when I answer her so that she doesnt missunderstand me. But she still missunderstands me. I got so confused so I let my friend read through my texts with her and he asid that shes crazy!
Why the anger?
I have asked her why and she says shes angry at everything I do. I asked her to give me one example so that I could try to understand and maby change.
Why would you change, when you don't feel you've done anything wrong in these instances?
Look, if YOU want to change, then CHANGE -- become the best Peter you can be. But don't try to placate your walkaway wife, and walk on eggs around her to try to please her. I can assure you, not only will it not work,
but she actually finds it very unattractive.I'm not saying to go around being a di*k or anything -- be civil, courteous.
But live your life trying to "Do the Right Thing" in every situation, and stop caring about how she'll react to it.That would be my recommendation.
Starsky
Maybe because she doesn't like who she is right now, and you're just a convenient target for it.
Thanks!
I think your last post is close to the truth!
About walking on eggs! If theres something I do not agree with her with I do state my opinion. But I dont want any drama. She gets mad at such little things. And I cant really perdict when she is going to snap. Thats why I try to avoid contact other then when it comes to the kids! It has nothing to do with pleasing her.
I do think I have always tried to do the right thing, both for me, her and the kids!
I know where my fault lies and I have owned up to it and learnd so much about it. ( co- dependent). But when she made her decision there was no turning back!
One time I tried to have a civil conversation with her and she litteraly closed her eyes and put her fingers in her ears and started LaLaLaLa! Immature and shocking to me at the time but roday I get a laugh out of it!
Really dont know what else to do but to work on myself and leave her alone. If shes running from herself maby thats the best way to be! Live for me and my D!
Had no intention of rhyming in my last sentence! But its on me!
So!
ExW will visit me this week! We will try to sort out a few things that has happened in the past to be able to better our relationship. Both of us want it to work better for the skake of D. She is still in replay. Very emotional and irritated with me. For no apparent reason.
So how do I do this? How do we touch this? She is not a talker so its difficult for me to just listen! Any advice?
Did she contact you or did you set this up?
We talked when she left D! We were supposed to talk in April but she backed out. I told her then that we could talk when she felt ready. She feels that we need to improve our relationship for D. I agree! So I guess we both agreed to the talk. But it was my idea wwith bbq. I think its a good thing spending a couple of hours with D before we talk.
What do you think is lacking in terms of your communication about your D? What does she think is lacking? I think the two of you need to know what you will be discussing or else you'll just have awkward silence.
How often does she have your D? What's the actual custody agreement?
I have D every other week! Well there are almost no communication between us at all. I have limited contact with ex bc shes angry, confused and mean to me. And I guess It has become a cycle. The less contact we have the more she misreads me. Almost like she seeks conflict when there really doesnt have to be.
My problem has been this. She dumped me in a very strange and mean way. She hasnt understood just how mean shee became and the only wah for me to heal has been to step away from her anger. Creating more anger.
I think theres two problems. First and most important is the reason why she broke up with me. Secont is the how she broke up with me.
We havent solved anything and my hope is that with time we can get a better understanding of the whys. But its difficult to have a conversation with a person who has huge problens talking about her emotions. I really think she herself doesnt understand fully what has happened.
So we both want a better relationship for the sake of D. But I need to get passed the hurt and I guess she needs it to.
IMHO it doesn't sound like having a talk about communication right now is going to help.
There's alot of pain on both your parts still. Would the two of you be open to going to an IC to discuss communication issues? I think you need a third party to keep things in line so that it doesn't seem like you're pointing fingers at each other.
Thanks Mr Bond!
So much to tell you!
Short version:
She understands! Just gets it! We put D to sleep and after that we talked for an hour and a half. She cried the entire time. I let her do most of the talking and validated when I agreed. Half way through she said wait... And then she said I understand now! Then she cried and said its all my fault! Everything is my fault! I told her that that wasnt the truth and explained my mistakes in our marriage.
For the first time in ten months I talked to her and not the alien!
She ended the conversation saying what can I do! What can I do!
I answerd that I dont have the awnser to that question.
She does understand that she fled! And that she had been running from herself. She told me the reason for being angry at me was bc she was angry at herself.
So many pieces of the puzzle fell into place.
So now I guess I leave her alone with her understanding, right? Shes far from done looking at herself and her behavior. But I truly believe some seeds were planted this evening!
So now its back to getting a life and focusing on me!
Just a word of warning. While she might have said that now, she could very well change her tune again. It happens all the time. You're right about letting her handle her own issues. She is going to have to find help for herself.
Thanks!
Im well aware of that! So I guess I keep a distance and continue giving her space!
Its damn hard to not have expectations after a night like this but I guess im happe we came as far as we did!
Radio silence from the other side!
I started this thread because I was curious about opinions when it came to defence mechanisms. Ex wife had alot of them. So refering to our conversation. What could happen to her now? If sjes starting to understand the debestation created by her...
Depression?
Her defence mechanisms will switch on again to protect her?
I know I should keep away and I will. But I dont want her to be depressed.
Thoughts?