My last thread: The beginning:
What is going on here.... and what do I do? Backsliding...
I admitted yesterday I checked H's art blog. Has anyone had to deal with someone who is undiagnosed depressed/bipolar who doesn't do anything about it?
As I have really been trying to not contact him, do I reach out one more time and tell him to contact a counselor?
I'm catching myself trying to slide into old habits here. I want to 'help' him, but contrast that with I'm trying to stop 'feeling' his feelings. (Codependent No More) so I can't help him.
I did mention a counselor before. I'll just leave it at that, and work on my silence over the next 5 days (S-5) comes back from his vacation from gpa's and gma's, so H and I will have to interact - although H has not talked to me about ANYTHING (he's doing a better job going dark on me then I have on him) about the logistics of S now that H has a new apartment that he won't tell me where it is.
I guess I'm looking for approval in my non communication, because I've never taken this approach before when this pops up. If I don't want the same relationship, then I can't do the same steps... ok.
Must figure out how to block his blog.
Made my to-do list of stuff for the house - it's going to be a busy 3 weeks of prepping. I hope I can PLEASE please at least just sell and not owe anything.
I want to be able to move out of this rainy/depressing place to the SW. (with or without H). Another day of overcast, rain and cold. I think I'm a strong person and *THIS* is even depressing me! I said in the winter that I can't do another winter here, and I definitely can't do another winter + my husband's winter (moodiness, withdrawn behavior) here. Rain and overcast for 7 months straight... urgh.
addendum:
I guess what is really bothering me is the IC I went to said "Oh I understand now why you say '6 months', you are letting him out there so he can fail."
(6 months from then was usually when he started to hit his moodiness/depression/withdrawn stage) and he is *usually* happier in the summer (the sun helps). So while he moved out a week ago, I figured he would be happy in the summer, then have to experience the regular winter dreariness.
I'm wondering if that is really my motive - to let him fail. I've done everything I could do before to keep him from hitting the bottom before. I would love to see him turn this situation around and thrive, but I can only go off of previous history to predict anything. But I also want him to see how easy he had it. But then is that punishing him or letting him have consequences?...
Gah.
I'm thinking too much about it. I don't quite understand my motive here. I want him to come back, and to figure out what makes him happy. I can't make his happiness switch turn on. But then I feel like I'm caging him too.
I think it was for the best he moved out.
He can experience what it is he needs to. I started to see 'myself' again.
Tailspin, tailspin! Mayday!
I totally understand how you feel here. My H has severe anxiety and depression. My IC mentioned how she thinks he exhibits some signs of Borderline Personality Disorder. It's incredibly difficult to live with someone with mental illness. It's also even harder to love them so much and see them suffer from it. I also get how you feel like you are starting to see yourself again. It's incredibly exhausting to deal with and I find myself being sucked into it. I don't know who I am anymore. Not that is totally because of the M, but I was taking on so much of his pain and issues that it was edging me out.
I have let a lot of that go. He is responsible for his illness and how he decides to treat it. I can support him, but I can't be responsible for it. His feelings, actions, reactions and pain aren't my fault or responsibility. That was a huge weight off my shoulders when I realized that.
Hugs. You can't make him happy. He has to do that for himself.
I have let a lot of that go. He is responsible for his illness and how he decides to treat it. I can support him, but I can't be responsible for it. His feelings, actions, reactions and pain aren't my fault or responsibility. That was a huge weight off my shoulders when I realized that.
Hugs. You can't make him happy. He has to do that for himself.
Yes, thank you for this! I read all my old emails to/from him over the last 3 years. I can see exactly with OW showed up, his cake-eating, his switching over to wanting to be in the marriage, his wavering, his switching, and then now. So frustrating because it's inconsistent. The only consistent thing was that he has been doing this for 3 years. Maybe he was planning it, then gave up. Maybe it's a long process. Who knows. But here I still am, regardless of that answer.
I've been thinking of the 180s again... what could I have done differently. What was his complaints. He said I was nice, I was a good mom. I was supportive. I also got stressed (handling everything will do that to a person), I started feeling stressed about work Sundays and got moody myself after H didn't want to do anything together, and I couldn't keep up with the demand of his wanting me to start a business, handle the house (by myself), work full time at a job that I only do because it paid a lot (and he became resentful of it), and raise a child (with no daycare). How could I succeed at that?
I also saw that I was so nice to him in his emails, complimenting him, appreciating him, and during the OW 'fascination' (coinciding with his 'winter') he would only answer in one or two words. Other times, longer. I also see that I asked several times in the last 3 years if we could adjust our schedules because what we were doing didn't feel right to me (I felt isolated and that I couldn't see him often).
I don't want to be in that marriage again where I brought up my concerns and it was swept under the rug. I guess he did have the 'balls' to end it, like he said. But at the same time, I wish I would have been 'heard'. I never threw down the ultimatums.
Does anyone find that WAS avoid you? I was trying to guess that maybe out of embarrassment of their actions, but then I realized it's trying to read into it, and I don't really know why... so why make up a reason.
So the day is complete. No emails, no texts, no phone calls... in either direction. I'm leaving it up to him to initiate as I hear divorce = space. And me calling, emailing =! space...
3 days ago he threatened me with getting served at the end of this week. Well... here we are and I haven't heard a peep about it. I'm leaving for the SW on Friday (which H doesn't know about).
I have quite the ambitious schedule to get the house up for sale. The realtor is coming next week for a first walk through. Fingers crossed that I'll be ready AND that the house can sell at a price I can get some $$$ out of to begin the next phase of my goal which may not happen until legal aspects are worked out.
(I was told today that I'm just creating ambitious (but doable in my opinion) plans to distract myself from reality, and that in the end, it will hit me like a brick. People shouldn't get divorced (if it's heading that way), move, change jobs all in the same year.
I was thinking more like 'Finally, I have the world at my fingertips, and I can do what I want. I own it now.' (and I *LIKE* moving.)
Any good R book suggestions for me anyone?
In the middle of painting the walls, I had a realization. I remembered a interaction that H and I had. I was on the phone and was laughing very loudly at whatever a friend said. H said "You don't laugh like that with me" kind of hurt. This was years ago...
I know that he has gotten jealous over a male coworker of mine, once I saw that, I stopped talking to the coworker (my husband was always more important to me) but I don't think H really noticed I did that.
So now that we aren't really talking at the moment. And I feel hurt about the cheating... And if divorce really does mean that they need space. Do I talk to him on the phone or wait for our encounters in person?
I am going to work on being smiley happy when I see him.
Completely understand having to handle everything. My H didn't work for years (now has a temporary job, but that ends soon) and it was incredibly stressful to be the only earner in the house. He didn't help around the house much, either. He just stayed home, depressed and pissed off. It's really hard.
I also understand not wanting to be in the marriage you had before, but not wanting a divorce. I honestly think that it comes down to if your H can provide you with the marriage you deserve? Can he do this while untreated for mental illness?
I wouldn't call him or seek him out at all. I'd wait for him to initiate contact with you and then be as pleasant as you can be, like you plan on.
I think it's a lot to do for one year, divorce, moving and new job, but if you're miserable with where you are living now, and are moving to something that makes you happy, I'd say go for it. You're not running away from your problems, you're running toward something better.
Thank you so much for popping in in here Timbits! For a while my H would bounce between jobs, always quitting because of some 'external' reason... his boss was a jerk, he didn't want to do 'xyz', or something.
Well... I talked to H this morning, mainly about his drawings on his blog. I don't think I handled that okay.
I usually am complimentary on his stuff - but I felt like the more recent ones didn't require a lot of work from him (missing heart), so I mentioned that.
There were a few that I told him I didn't want to see because the 'message' was directed towards the former OW, he 1) denied it and 2) said 'oh who cares about (OW) that'
#2 bothered me. OW is former OW now. They don't talk (I guess...)
and I care about it. I am bothered by how their relationship started, how it developed. And it ended because of me intervening (don't do that!). Why so flippant!? Why doesn't he see that it is hurtful?
Yeah, he isn't interested in building a relationship with me (I didn't ask that, but if he were, he would try). He is too busy trying to get his startup projects going. His empathy chip missing.
Well, we didn't talk about my plans for my future. Those are just going to be done... not talked about.
When a spouse ends things with an affair partner they go through the depression as if it was a honest healthy relationship. He hasn't snapped out of his mourning. I have read it usually takes 3-6 months. He isn't going to be noticing you much during this time. Thus keep working on you and improving things for you not because those changes might make him happy.
I am also glad you are getting mored posters. Always feels good to be heard.
kat
lio-
how did you intervene with OW?
Kat: always wonderful words of wisdom you give me, I really do want to thank you for being there and helping me look at it with different eyes. Maybe he is mourning it in his own way (avoidance tends to be his m.o. and he will hyperfocus on the next project). Ill keep on keeping on. Its the first time I've ever been excited about my own life in a very long time. (Sad I know... too codependent and I'm working on that!)
Hb in SD: in my other thread I found out about ow exactly 1 month ago, always had suspicions that she was the reason h would be distant at times. I had her phone # and when I found his truck at her apt instead of @ his friends house, all of my suspicions were validated. I blew up both of there phones all night until she called back. For 8 minutes I asked her what kind of woman she wanted to be one who sleeps w married men, what kind of real relationship would she have w a cheater, could she ever trust him if he was out, and that if she pursued r with my h, I would never go away. We have a s and did she Really want to deal with me the rest of her life. I also called her out on her mo of being involved w other married men because she was too afraid of a. Real relationship. Also wasnt it odd that they slept together one time but he didn't pursue it mor but was using her to sleep on the couch (allegedly).
Please don't do this. When they say don't confront here... listen.
Yes she cut it off, but that's because she is a coward and couldn't come head to head w me, and I would not back down. Some op may not do that. And the big one: your spouse will be incredibly resentful. You killed their fantasy instead of it dying when your spouse realized the op's faults.
I feel like even though it was he who cheated, it set me back in h's trust of me.
And it is leading me to here, where h is cuttoff from everthing except his passion of the moment.
So here I am, not sure how to connect w h without pursuing. but I'm trying to focus on my goals now, and maybe not contacting him is still best.
No problem. I don't always post in other threads because I don't feel I have much advice to offer, but your thread seems very similar to mine. My H had an EA/PA (didn't go very far, didn't sleep with her, but made out, kissed, etc), I told him it had to stop now, it did, but I feel like he resents me, too. I send OW an email telling her never to call my parents' home ever again (we were housesitting at the time), that she is destroying my marriage and that she had to leave him alone. He feels very differently about her now and can't stand to hear about her, but I feel like I destroyed his fantasy relationship with her.
I can totally relate to your sitch.
lio-
wow..i do respect you for the way you stood up for your marriage. that took alot of courage. i guess it didnt help, which really sux. i have been struggling with that issue myself. as of now i have chosen to leave it alone in hopes my W sees OM for the scumbag he is. if not, i guess they deserve each other. thanks for the recap. im sure it wasnt fun talking about it again.
I am literally at a loss for words and action.
Assistance needed please!
I talked to h last night on the phone. He was drunk (abnormal), drinking alone at a ba (abnormal) I jokingly asked him which girl he was with. He was angry until he figured out I was joking. He asked me to come. Over (and gave me his address finally).
He wanted sex but kept trying to make sure I knew there was no 'emotional' connection.
I saw his apartment that had no furniture. He had boxes and clothes all over, and was sleeping on the floor. It made me upset and I didn't think that our son should see him living like that and he needs stability. Wrong thing to say.
highlights:
H said he didn't want to be married because he couldn't work on his "businesses" that he wants to start
He hates having to take care of the house and us.
There isn't anything wrong with me
He didn't want responsibilities
He liked being able to go from work to home to do his art without having to interact.
He's was drunk. This is abnormal. He sounded depressed on phone.
we had argument that I tried to avoid (but I was tired, hungry, and emotional after seeing him for the first time in a week). He kept trying to kick me out when I disagreed with him. I should've left but I sat there like an idiot staring at him and beg, pleaded with him. I asked him if he was happy because he still seemed depressed. He told me he didn't care about anything and I could see him shutdown.
He promised me he was going to contact a counselor immediately so he could talk to a neutral party.
Eventually I left, but before I did, ihe thought it was 'funny' that I was so fixated on him dating. He said he has no interest and no time....(heard that before) He told me that there really was no physica relationship with that "ow",.. that he was enamoured with her and honestly there was no sex, and he absolutely slept on the couch by himself. I asked him why he said he did and he said it was because I was so angry about him lying, he figured I would end the relationship and he could pursue the ow and no responsibilities of taking care of house and me. That fizzled immediately when she harshly rejected him, now I understand why he could get over her that fast.
For the last 3 months I tortured myself over what she had that I didn't. I wrote emails, calls... trying to make sense of it.
When what he is telling me as far as I can mindread is that I absolutely need to back off. I need to set up day care and definitely put my house on market. I said to him that I needed him to be honest with me. As he is going through this period, and feels like his life has been so unsuccessful, especially in his desire for his businesses, I need to know what he needs from me so I can take care of what I can (daycare, allocating our old budget differently... whatever).
I received a voicemail today with an apology (that has. Never happened before). I called him to apologize for my half and to say I was embarrassed that I failed in that I allowed lack of food and sleep affect my work of controling my temper..
So I messed up in this whole approach.
Back to square one. Retreat!
As our interactions are so few, do I tell him that I'm backing off and to let me know if needs anything?
I need to continue to work on getting house up for sale.
He can't handle any "work" or requests I haveon my end at our house
Backing off...
Don't tell him you're backing off if you're backing off. Just do it. And if he needs anything he'll let you know without you telling him to in advance. Sorry you are going through this; hang in there.
Don't tell him you're backing off if you're backing off. Just do it. And if he needs anything he'll let you know without you telling him to in advance. Sorry you are going through this; hang in there.
^^^ Agreed. Do what you have to do to get your house sold, without his help. Hang in there.
Just checking in.
I've been down in the sw staying with my inlaws for a few days. I know, probably seems odd considering their son and I are seperated. I'm here picking up my son and getting a break from the allday rain up at home.
Haven't talked to h since his apology call. I did send an email letting him know what we were up to and how different son is in the sun (he's actually playing outside, getting dirty and he is loving it he says..)
Haven't heard from h if he will come vist when we get back. We haven't really talked to s about the living situation yet, and I requested that for now h comes over to see s (ill make myself busy) because as far as s knows, as always daddy gets home after bedtime and is always there in the morning. I never heard from h about if he would honor the request. He isnt direct right now when I ask a question.
Will continue to work on house when I get home tomorrow.
What do I do when H won't give an answer to anything, via phone or email?
I'm avoiding big conversations, big topics. But things like:
"Heya H. We have xyz furniture that I'm wondering if you want? I will sell if I don't here from you by Friday," (he has zero furniture and is sleeping on floor) and all the furniture I have is extras.
"We need to enroll s in school. Any preference? No response
Hi LIO - Do you normally communicate over email? Have you both emailed and called on these topics? (Not necessarily recommending that you do, just wasn't clear from your post). With the furniture my instinct is to say sell it if you haven't heard from him and the deadline you gave him has passed BUT if he filed for D you will want to tread lightly on any issues of joint property or things that will cause problems for you through the D process.
He is probably still down about having had you see his apartment in shambles, as well as your big emotional conversation. But, MINDREADING, we can't know what his deal is.
For S, I would email him very clearly that you need to make a decision by X date for enrolling him, and say that if you do not hear from him by Y date, you will be enrolling him at Z school.
You say you are going to back off but you keep rushing in. Looks like one decent interaction and you go in full force. Then you have a bad interaction and you swear you are going to back off like you said before.
If it isn't about your son, no discussions right now. If he wants furniture he needs to handle that by either buying some or by asking you. Quit trying to save him, he needs to handle this in order to grow up.
kat
Agreed. If it's not about your son, don't contact him. If he wanted furniture, I'm sure he would have asked you before now. It sounds like he's in a bit of a manic phase and doesn't really see how messed up things are. You say he sounds depressed, but it sounds manic, the wanting to go and work on his art, his businesses, wanting sex but no emotional connection, etc. I'm not a therapist, but it sounds a little weird and if you think he has undiagnosed bipolar disorder, it sounds a little similar.
I know how hard it is to back off and not fall into old patterns, but you really have to do this right now. Yes, he called and invited you over, but I'm pretty sure that he's telling you he wants his space. If you have to email him about your s, give a timeline for a response (ie, "I need to enroll S in school by next Tuesday. I'm leaning toward XYZ school. If I don't hear back by Monday night, I'll just go ahead and enroll him". And then follow through with it. If he has an opinion on the matter, he'll let you know.
Yeah sometimes over email, the phone, and in person usually.
I'm dealing with an alien at the moment though!
He just left without saying a word tonight, like I don't matter - meh. Doesn't bother me as much as he thinks it does
I matter more than anything he knows, and as long as I remember that, then I'm good!
I just got back from my trip to the SW and I am so determined to move. Blue skies... traded for grey here. depressing. I felt it right away on my return. I came home and 1) the email I received from H was sending tension in my back (I could literally feel it). He said in response to my request for no opposite sex and for him to come over and visit son "fine, but you need to go to the courthouse and sign the documents". Yeah.... not likely. Get me served! I'm not wasting my time!
2) the weather here [censored]. How can I go from 80+ sunny days to grey, cloudy and 50 degrees? I can't. I'm more determined to move. H can come if he wants, or not. I just need to wait until July if I ever get served to know if I can pull it off with full custody or not. My inlaws want me to move down there with grandson (son). I'm also inclined to do so. I would love H to go, but not counting on it.
I can't be held hostage here forever. Funnily enough, H is affected by the weather but has no clue. Whatever. He can blame it all on me! It's depression. I hate he can't see it. Who knows if he called a counselor - but my plan is still to move by October. I'm excited by that - the change of local, the change of jobs. The new start I need (and ironically H is doing).
I arrived back to my house and I was very proud of the progress I've made to get it sellable in 3 days. One more to go. I just need to keep working, and with S back in the house, my encounters with H are going to be more frequent. I try not to pester him or get in his way though. He is very odd about me 'hovering' but also wants my help. So whatever.
Things I'm doing differently:
stop caring about what he thinks.
That's enough. I don't need his stress although son (5) already figured out to try to say "well, I'll just live at dad's". Sadly I know that H couldn't handle that. And I know that H is avoiding real responsibility right now. So I'm just going to be the best mommy a kid could want, and H can come along, or go down his path - his choice... just as mine is... no matter how much he tries to keep me hostage by location.
I need to work on my temper. I hate he stonewalls me. I need to walk away instead of carrying on. Resources? Anyone?
Journal:
H came over yesterday in the afternoon, and mainly watched tv and played on the internet (no different than when he was living here). I do kind of hope that one night he will think 'I'm wasting $ to go to an empty apartment'. IT's only been 1.5 weeks though. Too early. I have a whole summer ahead of me before I move myself.
I'm frustrated. My own expectations?
If he was so interested in a divorce, then why is his routine so much of the same old behaviors?
Anytime I try to set a boundary or a expectation - he throws in "I need you to go to the courthouse and sign the serving paperwork". URgh.
I have to go to work at 9, and I have no idea when he plans on being here. I would like to say in an email:
"I need to leave for work by 8:30 each day, what time will you be over to take care of S?" or "So I can plan my week, I need to know what times you will be available to watch S"
I feel disrespected, like my time isn't valuable. I do have a adjustable work schedule - but 9 is pushing it for me.
Do I mention that every time I ask for a plan, he mentions the paperwork? Guess he was serious when he didn't want responsibility right now. I feel that not having responsibility means it easier to disconnect from the family (which is so opposite of how he used to be). It's too much of acting like a teenager. At least he has to pay money for rent.
I doubt he called the counselor too, like he promised 3 times.
I really wanted him to do this, but that's not enough. He has to want that. I know this.
I am frustrated because this seems like such a struggle.
Got it, he's on his own... He comes over, does what he normally does, then goes to his place to sleep on the floor and this whole thing eats up $1000 of his $2000. But I shut up because if he doesn't do this, there is no chance for 'us'. I would hear about it indefinitely on how he wants out. Right now, I learn patience. and how to control myself... and not tell others what to do. 2 very trying lessons for me.
I feel as if he is cake eating ie coming to your house to play video games and such. He should take s to his apartment. Nothing to do there? Sorry that is part of what he is wanting. Divorce is rough especially on those who haven't thought it true. Best introduce him to that world sooner than later. It might help your cause.
kat
Hi Kat! Yes, I'm thinking about that as you say it. I will decide later on this week or so if I want to talk about changing the arrangement.
On some good news:
Got an initial comp for the house, and it's a lot more than I anticipated! Crosses fingers that it will go for that price.
H isn't helping with prepping the house, but that's okay - I just need him to sign the paperwork. His forte is never home repair anyway.
Other stuff:
I went to my last counseling session last night, and was very encouraged. We briefly discussed H, but that wasn't the purpose of my counseling at this point. I said that H has his own life to work through, and I am mapping out mine! If they cross, so be it, if not, well, then it's not meant to be.
H came over to be with S, and we talked briefly. He asked what our plans were tonight and I said we were planning on going to the library. He wanted to know if he could take S to a kids place and I said "Oh sure! that sounds like fun for you two, I can always take him to the library before you head over tomorrow if that is helpful." He looked shocked that I didn't try to invite myself and that I was accommodating him.
I asked him how his business(es) were going (nothing happening yet) and lightly teased him about his words (the only reason for not being married is so he can start his businesses) and how it might not be 'me'. (joking with us is always good).
He saw that I'm actually making progress on getting the house ready for sale,and asked how the meeting with the agent went. I excitedly told him about how it was going. I also made a quick mention about how I'm planning on switching jobs in the next few months and will be using the funds from this house (if there is any!) to use on a downpayment on a cheaper next house with a pool (which isn't anywhere local as I'm leaving this state!).
I then told him about my latest therapy session and how people like me and him tend to get bored and sabotage our relationships because we like to 'fix the chaos we created' like it's a puzzle by giving ourselves a problem to work on. It was really eye opening visits to me, and I told him that I absolutely would start fights with him just because I was bored, and how I felt that in a way he was doing the same.
He sat there quiet and not looking at me, I thought that I was just talking to myself or I went too far, so I just said 'well, okay I'm heading in, I'll let you both be' and he stopped me and said he was listening (um wow). So I continued on and told him about how she encouraged me to work on my projects that I have going on, and how I would be a great entrepreneur and how to nourish my brain so I don't create these relationship problems. I also mentioned that I told him because 1)I am excited about it and what it means for me to have a direction that isn't me focusing my energy on him entirely, and 2)I believe he and I are the same in a lot of ways, and if he gets any benefit from what I learned, then that's good, maybe he can apply it - if not, no loss! Kind of a two for one special on therapy.
He 'listened' and then I excused myself after playing with the dog with him for a bit, leaving him and S (so I don't hover like he said before).
So H and S are out at their activity, I am feeling just fine being on my own, and I think him moving out has been the best thing for me in an unimaginable way. I am learning so much about who I am and what I want. I also look at him differently now too.
I would say you shared way too much. I would have not shared the therapy session but just left the conversation after the house update. He didn't ask about the therapy but you volunteered it up. When you feel good about something. I think you need to find someone else to share that with. Then if for some reason things don't go quite as you hoped in your positive state, he can't use it against you later.
Like I've said before, you rush in when you feel good or take something he says or does positively. Use that good energy and keep moving forward regardless of what he does or says. Change your habits and then you will be on your way.
kat
Hi Kat
Yep - it's that dang 'oh good things happen, then I'll text/email/ talk too much' syndrome. Gah. I get so excited about things I have it pinned to my sleeve like 'see everyone!' Time to invoke some mystery and keep up my good changes and SHUT UP!
H popped over this morning while S5 and I were running at the track. S and I spent the morning with my mom and sister shopping, walking, and talking. So I got some good exercise in today - ran at the track, spent the day cleaning upstairs (really trying to make progress on this house selling thing) while H was downstairs. H made S and I dinner, and volunteered to drop us off a mile from the house on his way out tonight (S and I walk the dog every night).
I was in a great mood today, H seemed good, I left him alone to do whatever he was doing while I worked on my projects, and he sought me out. No forced interaction, and there was no negativity today. H actually initiated sex (physical need or mental, I'm not going to judge lol - for ONCE in the last 4 months I didn't need to initiate!)
It was cloudy and cool today (so much for almost summer?) but no rain! H's mood is turning, I can tell. He knows that I'm not staying here. He knows the logic, and he knows that I can't take another winter here, and definitely not 'his' winter, and that I'm going "with or without" him. I see he is watching me and waiting for my next move.
And my next move is... resting my tired legs now! No texts, no calls, no emails from me today! WOOT! I didn't even need to 'text' him some sort of message hoping for a reply as some sort of 'sign' of a confirmation of a good day as I've done before.
Tomorrow I continue on with the house, and get some studying in (I do have to attempt to get a new job at some point!). I have some new books to read too (meditation this time).
Also should mention:
Changes I've made (and continue to work on):
--- not asking what he is doing, or getting involved in his day
--- no talking about the relationship
--- not being jealous. I've been putting up that red stop sign in my head and it works VERY well.
--- being 'accommodating' and not telling him what he should or shouldn't do
--- no calls, no emails, no texts (hard hard hard but worth my peace of mind).
--- when I go out with S, I don't even think about H anymore. Before I would think 'Oh H is missing out on xyz'. It doesn't even cross my mind - I'm just thinking about me and S
--- I do NOT talk about my job. at all. Nor money (as he requested as it's a sore subject for him).
--- I smile and laugh more now.
--- I am stopping 'fear' (false expectations appearing real) from taking over (again hard, but important!)
--- I refuse to 'mind read' and have told him this. I get that in the past I have made him shut down, but if we are to continue any relationship, I need him to tell me what he wants, otherwise it stresses me out to try to figure it out, and it wastes both of our time). I've been trying to demonstrate this with not jumping down his throat or immediately responding with a solution when he does talk (like I already thought of the answer while he was talking).
--- H is NO longer my hobby. I know I talk about him here, but that's pretty much it.
These have all taken me some time and some days are harder, but I am a optimistic person and I know that life will work itself out how it should. I just don't need to keep creating barriers.
Some good things this has shown me:
I can live on my own just fine
I don't need to be 'dependent' on anyone
I actually enjoy seeing what kind of person he is and stopped putting him in a box. Ditto for myself. I didn't realize the limitations I put on myself.
I enjoy my time with S.
I actually accomplish what I want (I get what I want) when I put effort into it (speaking more of my goals).
Oh and a GAL: next weekend I'm going to run a 10k race (I haven't ran 6 miles in a few weeks, but I'm sure I'll be fine! Gives me something to do, and a new tshirt)
Journal: Just checking in...
I am too impatient for patience! More reading....
It's been what, 4 months of rude attitude from him to me (which he has stopped).
3 weeks since H moved out
just 2 days since H initiated sex (but no ILY, kisses, hugs, etc)
and I'm sitting here getting frustrated that he is still in that apartment, and frustrated at myself for not being patient!
Today: H was late, and indirectly said that I was upset because he was 'controlling' all his money and I didn't like his choices.
I lapsed.... I said: 'no, it's not about what choices you make, it's your money, you do what you want with it. I get frustrated when I see that [damaged] vehicle you drive in, knowing that we are now both so tight with money (it's a HUGE danger at this point - very unsafe) when we could have easily afforded to get something else, and that I made it so you felt like you couldn't tell me that you didn't like what I did with our money, or that you couldn't tell me to back off when I was too needy. And I'm ready to sell this house and move by the end of summer and I don't know what you are planning on, but I'm going with S, and I want you to be there, but that's your choice, and I can't mind read and I hope that you can tell me directly what it is that you need...
I left for the gym, and let him be. I needed to chill out. I lapsed into 'telling him' what to do and what I was going to do. BAH.
I was reading last night here in another thread about someone putting out a 'annoyance' and the other person taking care of it. The first person never got the opportunity to experience the journey. I need to learn patience... and let others fix their own stuff. It's not my responsibility to worry about his vehicle. I know this.
I think I set myself up for stress today by having 'too' much to do and I have another meeting with an agent in 1 hour for the house. I need to take a mental health day and just enjoy it.
He did make me lunch afterwards (he used to 4 months ago).
H asked me to rent a movie series for Saturday. Probably more for S and him, but I will get it.
This afternoon, I made it a point to laugh more with him and S in our brief interaction before he headed out.
To do:
Appreciate the small moments and stop verbally vomiting! I did not call/email/text though. That part is getting easier.
Let him make his own choices. He knows what I'm working on.
Sorry I haven't stopped by much lately. I have somethings going on in the family and have been busy with that. Anyway it is good to see that you realize when you go the wrong way in your meeting with H. That is showing that you are on your way to fix that.
Hang in there. I will try to get by more often.
kat
Anything new happening?
kat
Checking in,fellow DB'ers!
I've been working on my house, purging, painting, packing and cleaning (need another word for cleaning that starts with a p!). As the rooms are getting more sparse, it seems that reality is starting to set in a bit for h.
Through talking briefly to him about my pending house listing and my goals (big move on the horizon), h told me he was offered a severance package at work, why and that he couldn't take it. I listened and did not offer a solution (yea for not bing a fixer!) As he chose to move out, since he doesn't have dear old me to fall back on, he is seeing his financial picture for the first time... And the stress it comes with.
I get the feeling he is waiting for my move so he can just show up in the moving truck. Like I have to do all the prep work and he can just "decide" to come or not. I am trying to not put my feelings in this thought as it's imagined for right now.
Still no serving paperwork. I've stopped waiting, and he's stopped mentioning it.
He came over at 5 am this morning told me that i could lay with him on the couch, but "it didn't mean anything", so i said, "well f you, but that doesn't mean anything either, I don't need your scraps (like a bone you feed a dog)". He smiled and "no, come here" and moved to make room for me. He wanted to ml, and initiated.
He also brought up a comment I made yesterday on the phone to my friend about flirting with a convenient store worker...and seemed a bit turned on by that. Hmm. So apparently that's okay with people I have 3 minute exchanges with. I guess that makes me appear desirable to him because others desire me. Come to think about it, when I met him, he made a comment about how he had to chase all the boys away, so I took that as he didn't want me to be flirty,,but looking back, it does seem he liked the idea of him being alpha male.
Physically and mentally I'm starting to be more like I was back then, which I prefer more anyway but I need to get back on my diet, exercising on a daily basis to make it a habit.
So how to balance flirting with my need to make him feel secure (maybe security isn't what he wants).
Hey LIO I saw you stopped by my thread - thanks for your thoughts. Just wanted to say thanks and that I hope your house packing/readying is going okay for you.
Thank you! And polishing great word!
Decided flirting isn't the right word... maybe being more social.
Need help with balancing compassion with detachment.
I admit, this whole situation with h has me bored, and mildly annoyed. I'm in the "hey, just figure it out" mode to him. I have my three big goals I'm working towards, and I am no longer am emotional or reactive towards him (I think...)
But it's mid month lol, so in a trend I'm tracking, this would be the time he tries to drop a bomb or create an issue.
Yesterdays convo:
I have him sign the listing paperwork for the house sale.
H: you see how easy it is for me to sign papers you give me? (referencing the serving paperwork he tried to give me 2 months ago that I told him to have me officially served because I wasn't going to do his job and then stand in line at the courthouse).
M: (smiles). I'm not going to even get into an argument with you today on that!
H: I missed some dog spots downstairs that I can't find
M: yeah I noticed it smells, I'll be taking the carpet cleaner to it this weekend, so hopefully it will find it.
End of convo 1
Convo 2 on phone late last night, I returned phone call 15 minutes after he gets off work
M: you sound tired, what are you doing?
H: sleeping
M: wow, did you eat?
H: no and you need to go to the courthouse and sign the paperwork
(not the good part for me?)
M: look, you've been gone out of here for one month now. If you aren't happy, if you are having a hard time financially, emotionally, or whatever, that is all you. I have no control over anything you are doing. It's all your choices. If it were my choice I'd tell you to get your (self censored) home as I've got a bed upstairs that has your side on it. But I don't control that. If you didn't want to pay your rent, then don't pay it. If you do, then do. Your choices. You want to come home, then come home, you don't then don't. Figure it out! I am sorry if you are struggling. It's hard sometimes, and sometimes its not. I'm sure you will get through and find where you want to be... Wherever that is.
H: I'll see son tomorrow.
M: sounds good, bye.
Yikes. Too much reaction? Need a better one if so. I admit, I get bored/annoyed with the same conversation as last month, as the month before. I am not helping him by doing all the steps for him. I don't want a relationship anymore where I have to do abc, only for him to be resentful of my choices that I run by him first. I am making my own decisions for me now, and he can figure out his. So out of curiosity, we will see on the 15thish next month if this is a pattern?
I get it's his struggle. I just don't need it to be mine anymore. I feel like I'm missing my compassion chip now,.
M: look, you've been gone out of here for one month now. If you aren't happy, if you are having a hard time financially, emotionally, or whatever, that is all you. I have no control over anything you are doing. It's all your choices. If it were my choice I'd tell you to get your (self censored) home as I've got a bed upstairs that has your side on it. But I don't control that. If you didn't want to pay your rent, then don't pay it. If you do, then do. Your choices. You want to come home, then come home, you don't then don't. Figure it out! I am sorry if you are struggling. It's hard sometimes, and sometimes its not. I'm sure you will get through and find where you want to be... Wherever that is.
I get it's his struggle. I just don't need it to be mine anymore. I feel like I'm missing my compassion chip now,.
Here's my 2 cents. Disclaimer: I still don't know what I'm doing so take this with a grain of salt.
My first thought is...you tell him sister! LOL I swear what you said is what I sometimes feel like telling my H.
But...I think you let your feelings about your whole sitch get in the way. To him your response probably sounded resentful (okay, so you proably are, but showing him that isn't going to get you anywhere). It definitely shows that you are still reacting to him emotionally.
Why does he want you to do the paperwork? That's just weird. I haven't gotten to this stage yet so hopefully some of the other folks here can help you with a response for future conversations.
Reading that LIO I'm thinking that if he was tired and hungry he probably didn't even hear half of it especially if you woke him up. I'm sure it felt good to get off of your chest but, if you have transcribed your whole conversation there, it looks like you were bringing up things (rent) that he wasn't discussing. So I'm not sure what kind of "response" you are looking to have ready in the future because you a) asked him if he was tired and what he was doing when calling him back, b) asked him if he ate, and then c) talked about things he hadn't brought up.
In the future, maybe consider, if he says you need to go sign the papers, just calmly tell him that you're too busy to do that and he will have to have them sent to you. If he persists, just repeat that as many times as he asks you about it.
when he says, "you need to..." maybe you could tell him that it's not your need but his and he will just have to make it happen without your help.
he takes care of his needs, you take care of yours. going to the courthouse is not a need of yours.
HI All,
Yes Verab and Ro, you are right. He was tired/possibly hungry and I just launched into a tirade, making it a emotional reaction (maybe not crying/pleading but still an emotional reaction nonetheless).
I'm thinking the best response would be:
"Hi H just returning your call."
or if he says he was sleeping (no matter how early it is): "You do sound tired, I'll talk to you some other time." CLICK
end of conversation. K.I.S.S.
This really is like a science experiment. When I do x then y happens. If y is a bad reaction then don't do x! i.e. When I call and H is tired, he will bring up paperwork when I press conversation. So don't press conversation. Noted.
Regarding the paperwork RoRo: from what I can gather now looking at previous 'experiments' err experience, H will bring up paperwork when he is fearful or feeling backed into a corner.
So me having him sign the listing paperwork for the house (although necessary for me on a financial standpoint because it's eating up 50% of my income, and he even though he HATES the house and wanted to sell it before), I'm guessing here that by me putting house up for sale, it is a sign of me moving forward... with or without him. He can't just pop in whenever he wants in my next place as he can here. His reaction is fear-based. I also expected him to say something about the serving paperwork, so I didn't let his comment bother me.
And the convo last night, it was based on being backed into corner of having to be forced into a one-sided conversation when he was tired.
ScaredSilly: I agree - which is why I haven't 'helped' him with this. I have always done something when he wants it (see my slip with the carpet cleaning comment above). I have this bad habit of if someone tells me something, I assume they want me to take action, and I need to break myself of that. In the paperwork case, I'm not a genie and saying 'your wish is my command', because you are right, it is not need of mine.
As Verab wrote, 'I am just too busy' for it. It isn't a priority of mine, and I won't do it. If he wants it bad enough, he will do it himself.
See, thank you all for your help. It helps me so much to write this down, get another perspective on it because I wouldn't have realized the two ways the paperwork is brought up (fear and backed into corner). SO at least my next 'reaction' will be the same as the morning one "Oh I am not going to be getting into an argument with you today! (smiles)" or "I'm sorry I can't help you with that." and be quiet.
This really is like a science experiment. When I do x then y happens. If y is a bad reaction then don't do x! i.e. When I call and H is tired, he will bring up paperwork when I press conversation. So don't press conversation. Noted.
Just clarifying this. In no way am I saying that in order to appease H, I will always do what he wants. That will make me resentful for sure. I'm not resentful. I think that what's going on is that I am not respecting lines of when someone is tired, hungry, or just doesn't want to talk. And I am bored with the same complaints/conversation and no progress. It reminds me of my former boyfriend who is a professional victim. I need to start practicing how to 'hear' someone and not take action on it. Maybe like what I just used this week on former friend:) "Oh yeah, not having a job would be difficult. What do you intend to do to change that?"
Or regarding the carpet cleaning: "Yes, I noticed the smell too. What do you think you could do about that?" instead of me offering a solution for me to take care of it, or saying to hire someone.
I love this DB'ing because it really ISN'T about H. It's about me being a better person all around, including how I communicate, delegate, rediscover what I want in life, and setting my goals and taking steps to doing them. It makes me feel more confident overall!
I like, "I'm sorry. I can't help you with that.". I'm gonna have to use that, too!
Thank you!
I did it! I had my own fire in the backyard (something I always equated to h, s and I doing together, but I got tired of waiting.)
Okay, I'm no boy scout... H came out and looked at my fire and rebuilt it (he asked, I accepted) before he left and most importantly, I didn't give him a hard time about leaving or what he was doing (wasting $$) in my opinion. I held my tongue. It hurt.
I only asked "do all artists need to go be conflicted or brooding in order to be inspired?". "shrug" was the response.
Note to self: if this doesn't work out, and I meet another artist.... Run!!!
I am making it a point to not to be on the computer when he is here. Even if we don't engage.
I did have to email him about the money that he is supposed to deposit each month for s and insurance and taxes... I expect some comment about "now I need to sign the paperwork". Lol. I will ignore it.
Tomorrows plan is to get my movies I ordered, and keep packing the house. I also hsve a zen Buddhism book to read (maybe it would help me with the art of detaching!)
I was wrong about his response to the finances. I don't know what to say right now, but I am not responding ATM.
I gave him the total and what it broke down to (he should now, but I know he deletes my emails). It's the same as last month that we got into an argument over.
He responds today with: "I can't even come close to paying that."
Gah!!!!!!! My internal thoughts are running wild. Must not, will not send reply email. Must have better idea what to say when he brings it up..
So what pay nothing like it will disappear? Kinda like how you aren't paying your other personal bill that I stopped paying for you when you moved out?
Well maybe you should've actually done a budget like you said you did. maybe you should realize that u still need to support your son, and pay your bills! I pay for the house you left me with, the utilities you use, and food! It's not like I have any money either!!!
End rant mode.
I'm biting my tongue... Hard.
"I'm sorry, I can't help you with that. I'm sure you will figure something out by x date.". Maybe???
LIO - You haven't mentioned in this thread and I don't remember from your earlier threads, but do you have any type of separation agreement in place? If not, I would recommend consulting an L, especially since H was the one who moved to an apt, to get some advice on how to handle this. Depending on where you are, since he was the one that filed, you may be able to get a temporary support order for S. Protect yourself.
I did when I consulted with L last month.
Basically unless I sign the serving paperwork, then there is no way I can get any $ from him in a formal way right now.
The lawyer basically said "If you can cover the bills right now, expect to do so. Unless you sign the serving paperwork and proceed with the divorce, there is nothing that will make him HAVE to pay you right now. The judge will look at the day he moved out until the divorce date, and then you will be able to make a claim on the $ at that point, which probably will come to you in terms of retirement or the house as he is most likely not going to come up with the full $ amount at that time."
So in response to my "I'm sorry, I'm sure you will figure something out" email response, he said "Sign the paperwork, then we will talk about payments." I am keeping that email (not responding in person or in email) as if it does go to divorce, that is acknowledgement on his side.
I know that finances stress him out, but bills are bills and I don't get a choice on not paying them. Backed into a corner, he brings out the fact that I won't sign the serving paperwork (which I figured out why he brings it up yesterday). There are two things he won't talk about: money, and his involvement with his EA friend (that ended badly). I am starting to question WHY I would even want to be married to him. IF this is who he is like he says, I don't like this person. But if I say 'he is reacting with fear' then is that justifying him? I think I need to go for a long walk right now and breathe. I feel a bit of anxiety creeping up. I know that everything will work out. I know this. I just need to convince my anxiety that it will be okay.
Just 5 days until the house goes up for sale! Eek! After my walk, suffice to say I'll be a bit busy!
Short,sweet and to the point. Stop adding dialog that doesn't need to be there. If it isn't about your son or now about the house, it doesn't need to be brought up. Stay on your new path. It is up to him if he wants to follow or not.
kat
Hi Kat, missed you popping in! Hope things are going well for you. I agree with you, my resolve is smile, and walk away. Unless we are talking about Son, or the house, I'm silent.
I am too busy for the nonsense. I am cordial, I am focused on my goals and I am making good progress every minute. (My mantra today).
I am working on 'silence'... Oh help me to not react or run at the mouth. lol! I can do it!
I suck at the silence..... I walked into my home, calm, cool, collected. H was there.
He noticed my silence, had a bunch of 'sighs' on everything.
H made S and I a sandwich and kept asking for approval on it.
Then mentioned he was taking S on a hike.
"You always block me from going places with you" (bah... shut up LIO)
He talked about me using his online music player (like stealing he was joking). "Oh kinda like you stealing other people's internet connection where you are?" (shut up LIO!)
I am so resolved when I am on my own, alone. When I see him, I need to play this in my head. House or Kid? House or Kid? No. SILENCE!
Ok another try this afternoon.
You can do it! Hang in there. This will take more resolve then you have ever used before.
Kat
^^^^ I did it! Thank you for your encouragement! It was/is difficult for sure, because you know at this point, any 'positive' words for me from H = me calling H or giving me permission to talk on and on.
H and S went out on their hike, I went out right before I thought they would be home because I am *always* at home waiting for them, and I thought "why not shake it up?" I purposefully stayed out past the time when H would usually leave. I also went out to eat inside a restaurant by myself (a change for me!). I brought a book, it was nice.
Got home, H talked to me, I grunted a single word response, and headed upstairs. Gave S some candies to give his dad for father's day. H thanked S, and then nicely thanked me specifically by name(something he hadn't done in months).
H said "We are watching this program, you want to watch?" Sure. I came down, didn't say anything. H: "Is something wrong?" Me: "No"
H then talked about the show.
I talked to S about his day.
H recorded another show for me to watch, and was talkative and stayed until now (3 hours later than normal).
Okay the night went better than the day
Tomorrow is another opportunity.
LIO back and reporting...
Mini meltdown yesterday and a little this morning on my front.
Yesterday he was late showing up with S, and I asked 'don't you work today?' I got accused of being passive aggressive (which I am evaluating right now for accuracy) and I said "I always make it a point to be on time for you because I know you hate being late for work. It concerned me when you didn't show up for 20 minutes and didn't call). So that started bad day #1 and me calling him.
The following mini-meltdown:
I'm getting the house ready for sale all on my own, which is the biggest job I've ever had to undertake. H came over today for S and helped moved some stuff downstairs, and also took his suitcase and a blanket with him to take. It bugged me, I admit. I said "if you are going through this house for stuff to take, you need to leave right now and go back to your home. The purpose of today is to get it ready for the carpet cleaners, not for you to disrespect me by taking your stuff right now." Probably an overreaction.
The blanket he joked and said "Well, I need another blanket in case I have house guests, and they need something to snuggle under" (he has no furniture still). Ok, I admit that the thought of another girl going over there bugs me, but that would be really classic... He would end up with a girl who wants to 'take care of him' buy him furniture which he will appreciate the gift, and then he will rebel. Same cycle. I am trying to let that thought go. "No, really it's because the floor is kinda uncomfortable and i need something softer." Me internally ("Good it should be uncomfortable.")
I cannot help but think that H is just going through a phase...
Just 3 more days until the house goes up for sale. I'm thinking my mini-meltdowns are starting to come through because of stress, but also because I really need to review my list of new projects to do. This one has taken up 3 weeks of my time - and it's given me something to focus on other than H. So now I am afraid that I will focus on H and see this scary new world.. So in 3 days, I will have to find a new focus to work on.
I had a dream about my ex-boyfriend who was very needy (both in the dream and real life). In the dream it was to the point where I could not even sit down without him taking the seat and wanting me to sit on his lap. I remember in the dream feeling a little flattered at first, but then it turned into me being completely annoyed and me trying to avoid him at every possible point. Even looking at his face was starting to disgust me.
I woke up. Now I'm trying to apply that to my sitch.
After the house goes on the market, you will need to start looking at job possibilities in your new town. If this is what you want to do, let's keep working to get you there!
kat
Hi kat
Nothing to say on the h front! Doing well on keeping my distance, no phone calls, emails, texts, nothing. If I check the blog I am left feeling empty now,so i don't go there anymore either. I am feeling moody, anxious, but it's right sound the right 'time' for that
. Should have recognized it from reading all my previous posts around this time on how we have blowouts (ie like Sunday night where I was told that he is never coming back and I am delusional) After that one, we actually "talked" it out on what the triggers were for both of us (I repeat myself a lot (his problem with me) because he 'hears me' but doesn't acknowledge that he hears me, and he turns his back on me and walks away) While that's a plus and they are getting fewer and further between (1 month ago now, instead of daily,weekly) it's frustrating that I still allow myself to react. When h calls, I just hand phone to s.
So tomorrow is the big listing day! I have just a few items to do around the house, but then it's maintenance ( the hardest part!). A little bit of fear and realization that I could possibly be moving is kicking in. I have never been afraid before, but this is the first potential move without h.
I am making a workout, clean eating challenge with my bf, that we will be starting tomorrow. It's time I get this physical fitness goal of mine started! Once I can get some extra $ in, I would like to sign s and i up for a martial art. I like the structure of it for both of us. And I need to get my frustrations out physically.
Journal part 2
Eek! My house is so clean it scares me! Nothing like a clean house to make me happy! I have a garage full of stuff that I will probably try to sell and get some extra $ and because its less clutter to clean and more time to enjoy.
Got some career advice, now I'm just deciding if I want to continue in my current job type (safety,pays well, bored) or if I want to take the plunge into my passion of real estate! Thinking the plunge. Dare I?! I would definitely not regret it. If I stay here, I can study online. If I move, I have to go to class (the state's requirement).
H called 3 times tonight. Probably for s, but it was 10pm, and s should've been in bed. Besides, h will be over tomorrow afternoon. He can wait.
Journaling/rambling for the day.
I am feeling pretty low at the moment right now. I wrote a letter to H in a journal (saved me from calling him about it tonight) so there is a plus...no talking about the same ol' same ol'.
I think we had some good interactions today - but after last Sunday of him empathetically telling me we will NEVER EVER get back together, I admit my confidence is shot.
H came over for S, but S ended up playing all today with visiting Grandpa, so H and I watched tv and talked about the shows. He also played video games and talked to me about it (kind of like years and years ago). H made a comment today about 'when YOU go buy YOUR house in (SW state) be sure to use the realtor from before.' I didn't expect him to include himself in this, but I was surprised he was so blase about me and S moving there. No d talk. I didn't say anything about that and continued watching his game.
I got 2 workouts done today, and he and s were outside and H invited me to play. Afterwards, I stayed upstairs for the remainder of the night, H involved me in him and S's funny stuff tonight, and I asked H if I should wait to watch the movie he didn't see, or if I could watch it (which I ended up doing as he walked out the door - a big change for me to 1) watch a movie and 2) do it WITHOUT him).
I guess all good signs. But I am feeling sorry for myself it seems. I don't have the confidence today, and I know that I haven't made any progress in getting in shape like I wanted to for years and years... I feel like I'm letting myself down by continuing this way. The possible OW was so much larger than me - which confuses me. He always wanted me to be get into shape, he'd introduce me to people who were runners, or who had lost a lot of weight. I let him (and me down) in that. I run, i exercise, I don't lose weight - unless I eat 1000 calories then I lose weight. Sigh.
I am trying to provide a stress-free home, as he wants 'no responsibilities'.
So bring on the 2x4's or something.
I know I need patience and to set my weight-loss goal as a priority too.
if you want to lose weight, do it for you. begin by smaller portions and healthier food choices. eliminate "white" foods; sugar, flour, white bread, white rice, and eat more green, yellow, orange and red.
eat on smaller plates. wait 20 minutes before you decide to get another portion. drink water with your meals.
walk more. you don't have to run, if you don't want to.
try yoga. it will help you to feel more centered and better about yourself. it's also a very mild but good way to build muscle strength.
LIO - do you lift weights at all? That, in my non-professional opinion, is crucial to weight loss if you are only doing cardio. Body weight squats, planks, and pushups are also really good for you (with proper form).
Also - cut out any soda/pop and drink some green tea or add lemon or cucumber to water to make it more "interesting."
I know how you mean about feeling low after the verbal blow from H. It's good that you got some of that out of your system by writing the letter. Hang in there.
Hi Verab,
Yes, well, I used to because I quite enjoyed it! I've made myself up a plan to follow weight training wise, and diet wise. So that's all I can do is follow it.
ScaredSilly: When I 'was' loosing weight, it was because I was walking all the time during breaks. I lost my focus on that. I also don't drink enough water. I will mark that as something to monitor.
I'm going to try to track my food/exercise online on a different website. So in 1 month, I'll report back some progress
journal:
H and I had a great weekend again (in my opinion). but then I go and mess it up with calling/texting because the conversation turned to money and i got stressed out. I realize WHY I did what I did. Now to stop it in the future... I am working on building a financial buffer so I feel more secure
I saw his bank statement (don't snoop don't snoop!) and he had a lot of money in it. I saw my bills... unpaid and high. I stressed. I was frustrated that a lot of his charges were bar charges, and i let my mind get the better of me. On top of he is always telling me he is poor, where he has 400% x the money I Have right now (primarily because I paid everything in repairs to the home i now have up on the market).
I regressed about 2 months in progress for myself...but he is still talking. I did relatively well for 3 weeks, and I slipped. He told me that there wasn't 1 thing in particular I did 'wrong' in the marriage, but that he was unhappy for a year (he mentions his job in this sentence) and decided he didn't want to be married anymore. He also said that he felt he wasn't 'worthy of being upset over'. I said, "I think you are" and he said "I don't feel I am". He also said that at night he wasn't 'happy' with the way things are now. But it's part of the 'process'. (What I hear is 'victim of my own choice' when he says that).
Another bar visit last night... I heard it on the phone in the background. He's 'working' with a [male] business partner, and they are meeting at bars to discuss ideas. I was exhausted and crying because kiddo wasn't sleeping. I said "how come you always get to go out at night and I am the one who has to do the night time stuff?" Yikes. Resentment 101 = not enough 'fun' stuff for LIO. GAL table for 1.
I am writing this here because I don't want to talk about it anymore with him.
As i see it:
1) I took the good day and wanted 'more' - Chasing as Kat puts it.
2) Snooping is bad.
3) I don't trust him
4) My goal that took up 3 weeks is done. And I need a new one asap.
My goals are for the week:
1) When he is there, be nice, don't be available. (Going out on a girls night this friday!)
2) resume the no call/no text. One slip up. don't make a bad slip a habit.
3) "live your life like he is not coming back" ~ Truegritter
(Starting looking at places to live, regardless what happens, S and I need to be stable. I am unsure if it's out of state or not. I am a bit afraid to be honest. I need to do some serious soul searching on this)
4) ask for more hours at work to save more (done.. didn't want to really but if I want to 'feel' financially independent, it's money that will do it)
5) Looking at Taekwondo for S and I tomorrow evening.
Journal:
got home too late to check out taekwondo for S and I. Will go later this week. H didn't go to work today and hung around the house (not his apartment). Asked me if it was okay. "sure". I went to work for a bit and stayed longer than usual so he would have son longer. H is still here downstairs watching tv and going to cook us dinner tonight.
I noticed when he talked about not wanting to be married, he also talked about his dead-end career in the next breath. Like they are related. Yesterday I did mention that to him that he's done that a few times now. He didn't say anything (I didn't expect anything to be said).
Been thinking about the 180s from things that I can do that will benefit ME only. This is the first time I've put me as a priority on changes I'm making.
Also setting some new goals from a bucket list I'm making. I am focused on my food/exercise. I also signed up for a few classes (starting a business, hypnosis, and eek! at the end of summer, learning to ride a motorcycle!).
Has he been paying you child support yet? I think this needs to be addressed.
While he may have equated unhappiness with his job as unhappiness at home, this is something he is going to have to learn are not related. I know how badly you want to fix everything. However your job is to take care of you and your son. He has to work out his issues. No one can do that for him. It also doesn't help for you to remind him. He will see it as you nagging or fixing or controlling.
Again focus on you and son. Keep conversations to the house and son and things related to those 2 things. I think I have told you before, the only people I know on here that saved their relationships were the ones that really dropped the rope and were ready and willing to move forward without their spouse. It isn't game playing but what you are willing and ready to do.
hang in there, kat
Kat:
Just got the money today - with a 'little joke'. One step up from the usual fight about it.
I've been replaying what you said in my mind " your job is to take care of you and your son. He has to work out his issues" for the last few days. Thank you - I keep reminding myself that it is not my place to 'fix' him. Just seeing it (and continuing to see it) in black and white helps.
Journaling:
Working on patience and slowing down.
I'll start with the more important things first: S and I went to taekwondo and he warmed up to it. I think he will be a natural, and I'm looking forward to learning with him. He and I practiced at home.
I got more hours at work (I want to save as much as I can, and I need to be ready to pay for son's school by myself if needed). Until the house sells, I've been given some time to think about where I want to be and what I want to do. I'd rather make a informed decision and well thought out, before being reactionary.
I have been pretty good about exercise and food this week.
In H and Relationship news:
H is still living at apartment, no furniture, but coming over now nearly every day at 5:00am and staying longer. He is being more communicative now and not biting my head off. Even making breakfasts again. He's making comments about being 'old'.
I talked to him briefly yesterday about me needing him to be here tonight so I could go out and GAL (got a girls night planned of drinks, dinner, movie) he tried to ask me specifics but I'm being vague. He's made some comments about how he bets there are a lot of other men who would are lining up for me. I didn't play into 'reassuring' him this time.
I was hung up on when I said I had an office space for him and that I would respect his boundaries if the door was closed (something I didn't do before). He said he was 'considering it'. I said okay and to be fair, I would want to keep 1/2 of my paycheck, as he keeps 1/2 of his paycheck. Then I stayed quiet (after I caught myself pressing him, I didn't want to continue it more). He hung up on me and then when I didn't call back - he called back an hour later apologizing for hanging up and gave me some lame excuse. I said 'oh okay' and didn't engage in conversation to try to make him feel better (and to keep myself from running off at the mouth again).
I woke up to H stumbling around at my house at 3 am (not his apartment that I'm sure was closer to the bar he went to). This going to bars so frequently is not a normal activity for him but I just gave him a bemused look. (Old LIO response would be to confront him about who he would be with that late.)
I saw him fiddling with his phone (texting??) I said nothing. (the old LIO would have ripped that phone from his hand and angrily said 'what girl are you texting now?'). He said "Life just [censored], everything about life [censored]. Life [censored]". I said: "You want me to sing a Killers' song? It's not so bad, it's not so bad, how do you know that you're right?" [this thread name is a lyric from that song]. He asked me to sing another song that he named instead. Being drunk, he laughed at everything I said (which wasn't a lot) like I was a wonderful comedienne.
He was in the midst of being sick, I gave him a wet towel for his neck and he said "I don't want to be married, why are you taking care of me?" in a confused tone. I replied "You make your own choices on what you do, and what you want. I am allowed the same - so I don't want you telling me what I can't do" I turned around and went to bed. He stayed in the bathroom for a bit, and eventually found his way into bed. I made it a point to not touch him at all then because I didn't want to give him a 'passive excuse' (like 'I'm drunk) for engaging in physical relationship. I woke up with his legs surrounding me.
Today he has been really caring towards me. I'm not talking any more than I need to - but he's making a point to make eye contact with me.
I am really working on shutting up today. Just because he's being nice doesn't give me an invitation to blab away, or engage him in my plans.
I will say that I am very much aware that he will try to slide back in if he had a chance. I don't want to close the door on him, but I am also not waiting on him or taking care of business for him either. It actually scares me a bit to think about him coming back - so I try to not think about it.
Okay one more post!
I found out today that my screenname here in spanish means:
1: confusion, mess
2: hassle, trouble, jam <meterse en un lío : to get into a jam>
3: affair, liaison
interesting! I made it up because it was an acronym for something more personal for me. Who knew how it could mean something more 'fitting' as well.
Good for you! I know that wasn't easy for you. Stay focused and see what else happens.
kat
LIO, sounds like you did great interacting with your H. I'm sure it wasn't easy, and he's probably thinking about the fact that you didn't respond the way you usually do.
Well, self control only lasted me a few days. Gah.
I am trying... really I am. As you all experience, this is definitely not easy.
I can see I have grown from this, I have. It's not been *that* long, and I am still working on this. I feel sometimes it's 1 step forward, 3 steps back. I'm not flipping out as quickly. My 180 I struggle with and continue to work on is to not be reactive.
Wrote another reminder to myself about not emailing/texting/calling.
I said: "Everything you are about to say has been said 40 times before. HE KNOWS. Stop. Go do your own thing, LIO"
I know I am reiterating the same old here. I just need to remind myself in writing.
I guess after slipping up by emailing/texting like a desperate fool, I know it's not the end of the world.
I know he doesn't really want a divorce. I just don't know how we get from point A to point B. Back to reading on detaching and letting things flow and letting go.
Reminder to myself: I can't control everything.
Things in my control:
I have enlisted my coworkers to form a little exercise group a couple times a week.
I built my workout schedule.
I bought some yarn as a new craft project.
I am arranging my schedule so S and I can go to a church. H mentioned he might go when he's not working - but I'm not counting on it.
I'm starting to make plans on when this house sells what I will do.
I have stopped isolating from friends/family - especially when I need people around me the most. Maybe others find this easy, but I have never had 'close close' friends ever in my life. I moved too much and never developed attachments to them. Maybe I transferred that need for attachment to H... Anyway, I'm working on that now.
Questions:
I want to stop slipping. So if I find myself wanting to react, how do I stop.
How do you develop patience - especially when you don't like 'treading water' and want to swim quickly from point a to point b.
Well I see the OW that H stayed at her apartment and texted he loved her not 2 months ago now has a picture on facebook of her kissing some guy who I assume she is in a relationship with. H hasn't talked to her in 2 months. Why do I care? Jealousy? She gets a happy relationship while my H is living in his own apartment?
Honestly, I don't care about her. It's not her. As I told her, she is nothing special, just one of many.
I think it's more like I want to yell at my H and say "See how much you meant to her? She served you up on a platter to me, then got into a relationship immediately after, and you decided she was worth walking away from this marriage for?!"
But I won't. I won't. And this is a big change for me.
I'm busy living my life. I write here so I don't keep it bottled up and explode it out later.
Journaling: Contradictions or just seeing things?
Remember this?: "I was hung up on when I said I had an office space for him and that I would respect his boundaries if the door was closed (something I didn't do before). He said he was 'considering it'." from 6/29 post
He went in there last night, shut the door and did some work. I did not interrupt. He stayed the night (downstairs) a first in 1 month, and then after making S and I breakfast, he went back into the room this morning and shut the door (I did not interrupt). I kept my word. (180).
I've been keeping conversation down. My thoughts lately have been:
1) he has made his choice. I can't do anything about it.
2) he's an adult who can make decisions.
3) I find my mood changing when dealing with him - so now I try to smile internally before talking. That lifts my tone, and my mood so I don't go downhill too.
He's made some comments on Thursday to me about how I'm being nice to 'win' him back. I said I don't need to. I am who I am. This is me. I make mistakes - I know I'm 'needy' according to him. I don't hold grudges, and I forgive too much. But I like who I am. And quite frankly, there are other men who think I'm pretty great as I am. but I choose him because I think he is creative, funny, and generally pretty awesome (usually).
He came home that night. I have no expectations on how long *that* will last. He wanted to be intimate that night, and the morning after.
Today... I'm keeping my distance. Giving him space. Avoiding talking too much unless about house or son (like I've been working on) and not rushing (thank you Kat!) or volunteering info.
So in the meantime, I love sports and exercise, so I resumed a sports hobby of mine... and here is where possible dangerous ground comes in. There is a guy who is definitely interested in me. I thought at first he was just being nice... but no... he is very interested. (I'm looking around the room like 'who? me?' lol).
When I've gone through something like this before, I did not want H to feel threatened... I spoke highly of H to other men, I referenced him, brought H to events so I wouldn't be 'alone'. Basically avoiding any improper behavior or situations... I can see how easy it is to go down the 'affair' route... that's why I've empathized with H. I can see how easy flattery and attention can pave a road down that route.
If I live my life like H is not coming back, then does that mean I date? H has made it clear that I *chased* off his OW (umm....because being a 'wife' doesn't). I don't 'feel' right about that. I am a very loyal person, and I try to avoid situations like this...
There are different takes on this. Personally if you are married, up until the very end, you don't date. You are trying to save your marriage and that means staying in it.
I believe you stay on the path you are now. I believe he is curious as to why you are different. Stay focused, you and son and keep on with your life. He chose not to be there, why show your hand. He has work to do to get back into this marriage but don't expect him to run back in. Good for you, not rushing in when he showed you some positive attention.
Hang in there. kat
I am leaning that way Kat, I don't feel comfortable with the idea of dating because I don't think I would go back to H at that point. But... doesn't mean H needs to know either way (not volunteering this info).
Sigh....
We have a decent day - I received a upbeat call from him earlier in the day inviting me along with S to the waterpark. I go because we don't spend a lot of time together and it's the first time in a year he's asked me to go anywhere. I do not initiate conversation, and I play with S. I engage with H lightly and joking.
Received phone call tonight (I'm on 'dim' to him so no calls/texts/emails from me)
Paraphrasing some of it, but it's pretty accurate. I'm working on validating and not reacting emotionally. Any feedback? It's hard in the moment to stop and think first, but I tried...
Me (chipper): "Oh hi! How are you doing? (didn't wait for answer) You want to talk to S?"
H: "I need you to go fill in the paperwork tomorrow
Me: (kind of dumbfounded, I forgot what he was talking about for a second.) "You would like me to fill in the paperwork?
H: "Yes, I need you to go fill in the paperwork, it's been 3 months and it's due this week. Otherwise I'll have to pay money to have you served or to refile if it lapses. I feel like it's something still open and not done, and I want to streamline my life"
Me: "I understand, so me filling in the serving paperwork starting the divorce would help you streamline your life."
H: "Yes, It would allow me to move forward, we would be done by now if you did it before"
Me: "I understand, so by completing the divorce serving, it would give you more opportunities than you have experienced already"
H: "I'm already moving up in life, this would just streamline it so I don't need to be worried anymore. I don't understand why you are fighting this"
Me: "Worried about what?"
H: "the marriage, being married"
Me: "I see, being married is worrisome to you."
H: "if it turns out to be a big mistake [the divorce] after it's all done then we can just get back together again. I don't know why you are fighting this. I just want this to be done."
Me: (silently taking 10 breaths AND not saying what I was thinking.) Finally I say:
I am sorry if it seems like I am fighting this. I know that I was controlling a lot of the times, and I've been working really hard on not doing that. It [sux] because this is one of those things that I can see it 'appears' like I'm trying to be in control, when I am actually doing nothing because you deserve space to do whatever, figure out what you want for your life and if I fit into it or not or whatever you want to do with it."
H: "It's a little too late for that now (regarding the control part). I moved out, remember? I feel that you weren't good enough and it's time to accept that it's over and I don't know why you are fighting this, it's inevitable." And then more about him saying he will have me served and he doesn't want to embarrass me.
Me: "I can't tell you what to do here. I absolutely do not want you to feel trapped or like I'm forcing you to stay married. I can't make you love me, I can't make you stay. You moved out, I helped you. If you feel you want to serve me that's okay, I care more about how you are doing then me." (maybe not a good thing to say - the 'you weren't good enough comment made me stop)...
and so the conversation continues until he hangs up on me frustrated and angry because he doesn't understand why I am 'fighting' even though I'm really trying not to fight...
And quite frankly, I brought up the 'control' thing... but only because he mentioned it previously, so he must've felt like I did control things too much. Usually, it would be more like he would want to do something (grand plan) and i execute it. Or I would ask him a question on what he wanted to do, and he'd have no opinion "it doesn't matter" or "I don't know, whatever" and I'd have to make the decision and I'd say "okay, well, i guess we will go with x".
Anyway, I'm looking for feedback on how to handle these conversations and after. Do I act chipper tomorrow when I have to see him? "Good morning H, see you later!" as I walk out the door?
I was kind of proud that I was not too emotionally invested in it anymore (ie not freaking out), nor did I call him back when he hung up on me, and I didn't try to 'guess' what he will do next. I'll just deal with it then. This not 'reacting with emotions' is new to me.
hi lio,
the only thing i might add is to tell him you are not fighting or controlling. you are just not helping (aiding, assisting, smoothing the way, etc.) and he will just have to do the work without your help.
it's funny how he says, "i need you to..." and expects you to meet his need. since he's "streamlining" his life now, he will have to find out what that means; he has no partner to help him and it's all on his shoulders.
Lio, our H's sound so similar. Mine has also told me we can see where life takes us and maybe we'll end up back together after the divorce.
I don't think he understands the amount of counseling we'd need for me to be able to trust a spouse who walked out on his marriage vows the first time to not do it again the second time around!
My H hasn't filed yet, and I've told him that I don't want a divorce, so he has to do all of the paperwork himself. I won't fight for anything, but I'm not going to help the process.
It's his choice if he wants to end it and he should have to deal with all of the hassle.
As SS said, your H doesn't want a partner anymore, so he should realize that streamlining his life means that he's responsible for all of it.
I'd act pleasant toward him, but I'm not sure if I'd go as far as being chipper. Then again, I'm not sure what to do with my own sitch,so you may not want to take advice from me!
You don't "need" to do this for him. He is too weak to do it himself. The alien speak about if we think we made a mistake getting divorced we can get back together is script for WAS. If that is the case, why not work it out now and save the expense.
I have told friends in the past, treat your H like the mailman. Just be cordial and not overly interested. You can do this.
kat
it's funny how he says, "i need you to..." and expects you to meet his need. since he's "streamlining" his life now, he will have to find out what that means; he has no partner to help him and it's all on his shoulders.
Very true. And very different for me to do. I 'want' to help him, but then again, that's a wife's job.
I have told friends in the past, treat your H like the mailman. Just be cordial and not overly interested. You can do this.
kat
Ok
Journaling and it seems an actual breakthrough (for me):
Yesterday, H called me to 'offer me a choice' be served by the Sheriff at work and be embarrassed, or have my parents serve me [um no my parents would not be involved]. I said "Well, honestly I'd prefer neither one and would like to give us some time to work through it, but I do appreciate that if this is what you really want, you following through and handling this instead of me having to take my time to take care of it. You will have to decide which one you want to do".
He was mad I didn't choose for him, and went in the Sheriff's Office when he called, but found out that it was too late for them to do it. He then told me he hated me, and wanted to get as far away from me as possible, and that if I didn't notice, he has cut me out of his life entirely (yes, in last 6 months). He feels lonely and has for 2 years and hasn't loved me for a long time (2 years he says), and wants a girlfriend so he doesn't feel lonely anymore and he can't date while he's married so he wants to take care of the 'legality' of it.
It's like he never remembers "ME". He is so easily able to forget me and 13 years.
He told me last night that he didn't want his parents codependent dysfunctional relationship. I agreed. I didn't want a push/pull manipulative relationship. Ironically, as I'm on the phone with him about it, it didn't occur to me then that this IS it. Him huffing off, me following. I once told him "Why is it that I have to
ACT crazy in order for you to pay attention to me - I don't like it. I want to be able to tell you what is going on and we deal with it."
No response.
I know I can't 'make' him not feel lonely, I've offered him to take S over to his apartment over the weekends so H can have his space from me, but he still comes over...so far.
I am still keeping up on my GAL stuff, but I still haven't detached as much it seems. I saw his depression, the path it goes, and I see my inability to detach and I'm not 'helping' him by not allowing him to take this path fully. And it's just harder on me.
I get it now.
I am disheartened that I've wasted so much time. I still have hope, but 4 months of trying to figure this all out, being shut out, ignored, and slipping and not detaching as much as I should have. Emotional outbursts, too much conversation. And I realize I spend too much time analyzing. There really isn't much to figure out. It's he left, and me and S being at home and me making the most out of a situation that I didn't want, but can do. If H wanted to be here, he needs to figure out his own stuff on his own, and I can't keep assisting him in repeating his parents' marriage (at least with me that is!).
Thank you all for being patient with me. I appreciate all the encouraging words, and the words of wisdom given to me.
I love the feedback, it helped me stay sane in the last couple of months.
It's his choice if he wants to end it and he should have to deal with all of the hassle.
As SS said, your H doesn't want a partner anymore, so he should realize that streamlining his life means that he's responsible for all of it.
You are all right, I am fired from wife-role. So that means wife-role has to be filled in by him, or the sheriff or someone else.
When he goes on his next tirade about the papers, I will say (a bit wordy): "I respect that you want a divorce, however I am not in the position of doing the work in order for you to get it. My position is improving myself on what I've learned from this experience for happier marriage, and most importantly, for my own life." He can puff around all he wants then. My answer doesn't change.
I feel so much better after that last journal. Like a huge wave of peace just rolled over my previous pool of anxiety. I CAN do this!
I feel like I can be cordial now. Not emotionally driven.
LIO - sorry to hear about that rough conversation.
One phrase that has worked for me as a response (perhaps less wordy than what you have above about not doing work for him) is "I'm sure you'll be able to figure it out." You are right to let him puff around.
It helped me initially to think of STBX as having a MLC mental illness (even though it's not a formal diagnosis) because it was easier to forgive him that way. I used that analogy with some friends who were livid about his actions and it calmed them down, too. Once the forgiveness took hold I reframed it a little.
Since you've already offered to take S to him, I would not bring that up again. If he wants you to do it he can bring it up later himself. Remember that you've been fired, so you don't need to do anything to comfort him.
You've come a long way - stay strong. You can do it.
I know someone who hung in there for years and her H is back. It has been a long, drawn out process. She must have the patience of a saint! You have to decide for you. Your boundaries, your time line, your end result.
I wish at times that I had found this site wnen I first found out about his affair. Maybe it could have been different. Then again, maybe this was how it was supposed to be.
Kat
Wow.... I just spoke with someone who had the voice of my husband if he were talking to a rude telemarketer. Gah. He was being incredibly secretive, vague and telling me that nothing he does was any of my business... (okay...? What is this from?) But not even this morning he was being nice and semi-talkative. I can't tell if the nice is him, or if it's because he's really using me and this house because S is here every single day/night (H's choice). He yelled that he would take S and I wasn't giving S to him (I told him as recent as Monday he needed to start coming to get S and leave the house and H didn't do that at all). Then as I said 'you want to TAKE HIM? Take him? How do you mean?' because I wasn't sure what he meant... And click, hung up on.
So sounds like another night at a bar (with a younger coworker, male I guess, don't know without seeing the person and it's a gender neutral name). He feels the need to be so secretive and lying, I don't get it. He would always tell me he was going out with x person, and I said "okay, have fun, see ya when you get home." Never said no. He'd call during the time too. Such an alien experience right now.
Funny thing is that just a few years ago, he used to laugh at his 'older' coworkers who would try to be cool and hang with the mid 20ish crowd. They would be eyeing the younger ladies they worked with, flirting shamelessly, and... have affairs. He thought it was all ridiculous how they were acting. I asked him what kind of work place this was that this was so acceptable at (I work with 85% women).
Heard the same old thing: "I'm trying to get a divorce, and you won't let me move on." Me thinking: Umm... okay. You let the paperwork expire, I'm not showing up at the house every day at 6 am and using my son as a way to say what I want. I'm not using your shower, your washer, your fridge, your food, your couch. I honestly can't even get into this on here any more because I don't see the point. It's arguing with a record player.
I'm trying to be indifferent... and I don't know how. I admit I am fired up because I had to a HUGE 180 for me. He hung up and I DID NOT call him back. I turned off my phone so I don't text (not gonna happen) and I won't call nor answer any calls.
So questions:
How to be indifferent.
Is me going dark when H's over here every single day punishing? Bolt the main door and make him ring every morning?... I avoided doing that because I wanted to keep the road paved and clear. Have S ready at 6 and say 'here you go have fun at dad's place' and force it? I am not wanting to be too reactive right now, but I know I am (one of my 180's I'm TRYING to work on). I wanted to keep the road paved, but fight the urge to sledgehammer it to the point of no return. So I'm posting first before doing...
Two bright notes: a couple of coworkers noticed my weight loss (7 lbs in the last week + 20 pounds (stress) in the last 5 months) and said I was looking good and that if I continued I'd be too thin (not true! but nice to hear).
I have been running with a couple other coworkers on Wednesdays. I am trying to get my 5k times down, and had a great training session today and hit my pace of trying to get to 9:30 pace (from my 13:30 usual time) for 2 laps. Now just need to keep adding 1 lap at a time to get it to a mile!
Well, Friday went exceptionally well. H stayed the night (downstairs of course). I was surprised. Then Saturday H went into meltdown mode because he felt I was overriding his plans (IE BEING controlling). Check.
Sunday - some good parts, some AWFUL parts.
Lessons learned: enjoy the good - ignore the rest.
H told me that he emailed a couple of his good male friends that he and I have known for years that he *might* be getting divorced. Okay... Might is better then WILL. But I was still embarrassed that now they knew. I overreacted. New 180 here to do.
I should have been happy that he finally reached out to his friends instead of keeping it all bottled up. They offered to talk to him, but he has not taken them up on it. H, S, and I attended all of their weddings, and they are definitely good strong family men - so if he does open up to them, then so what. I did tell him this today. Not that my opinion matters much - but I wanted to acknowledge my overreaction as a correction.
I *sense* that H is still around because he IS giving me a chance to redeem myself - despite what he says. His actions are NOT matching his words. He has some work to do too - and this separation is helping me see how I look to him. It's not pretty to see that reflection.
I see our family dynamics are different. He didn't grow up in a family that talks things out. I did. His was alcoholic and emotionally stunted (push/pull emotional hostage-type relationship between his parents). He's raging against our relationship that turned into his parents (as am I. I just didn't see my role in it too).
On a good note, even if it didn't work out between H and I, I am still grateful for that opportunity to correct it.
So 180's for the month:
Well one: SLOW DOWN.
Slow down my reactions. Slow down my tongue.Not reacting to the bad. Acknowledge the good.
No fighting. It's not worth the casualty (our son). My H sees this. I 'said' I did, but I didn't 'see' it. I see it. I was too wrapped up in *my* fears (projected or not).
Learned to not ask H about what he is doing.
Focus on work this week. One thing at a time.
Oh and that secretive bar meet up with the 'younger' coworker with the gender neutral name? Yeah, try middle age, male. Thank you facebook. You know what they say about assumptions. So yep. There's another one to work on.
Yes focus on the good but rather than ignore the rest(the awful) is there something to be learned there? No one really likes to examine the dark bad parts of situations but I think one can learn so much form taking a look.
So were things awful because of speaking before thinking, letting the hurt side of you lead you, trying to get him to see things your way? Listening is an activity. Don't try to think of what you want to say next but listen to what he says. Do his actions concur with his words? By actively listening, you should actually be a bit tired after paying so much attention to someone else.
Keep on this path. You are doing well.
kat
Thank you Kat.
Unexpected turn of events...
We have an offer on the house (good)
H has wanted to get this house sold, and was willing to split the remaining amount owed with me.
Got a call from the sheriff's office - process server is looking for me today. I saw someone out taking a picture of my car earlier this morning. Thought it was odd.
So apparently the week of the 15th came and went last week (what is happening on that week!?) and he decided he needed to go down and do this and didn't say a word to me for 7 days about it. (I did ask him and he said he had a manager's meeting. I told him that I had been journaling and every 15th or around that date, he either calls me to yell at me about divorce, or he moves out, files, moves out again and files again). My interaction with him last week now makes sense.
What that means is if the processor actually finds me - the house sale will not be able to go through in my state until the D is done.
I called H and talked about the house. Then said "so did you do anything last week? because I got a call from the processor looking to serve me. Serving me means we can't sell the house until the D actually happens". He then got upset/angry and said 'well then as soon as the house sells, you need to go take care of it. YOU didn't take care of it last time and it's been well over 90 days." I did not handle this interaction well. I cried. So much for 180s. I did not yell, scream or anything like that - but I said that I was trying to give him as much space/time as he needed rather than just rushing through a D. He had told me several times earlier he was miserable and I told him on the phone: "you say you are miserable and I've been very accommodating to you during this time. You haven't even fully experienced what it is like to be divorced and not have full access to our home, our tv/internet, and you see your kid ANY time you want - rather then on court appointed days." Nor does he care about how good some of our interactions have been. Or how he has been in/out of my house as he pleased. Or how he wanted to initiate sex this last Sat and Sun despite me trying to not talk to him. Even this Wednesday, he asked me questions about a computer, told me the news, his plans, and asked me mine. Much more interaction then normal.
H told me that he doesn't 'feel' anything, about 'anything'. He just wants to be S(5)'s "Friend". I said 'you mean "FATHER" right?' Talking to me on the phone upset him because he couldn't 'deal with it' and he hung up on me 15 times. He got mad and said didn't understand why I was acting blindsided (again). AND didn't want to talk about it. He just wanted to read his book. I did say "you tell me on the phone that you don't want to come home (in Feb), and then you act like you want to be around me, then when it comes down to it, you went in last week, redid the work, lay down with me on Sat and Sun like you are interested in me, come over every morning early, make me breakfast, talk to me normally yesterday, and then ask me why I'm blindsided!?"
Allegedly he is going to call the court and get it rescinded until the house goes through (we will see if he does that). Otherwise I've got a lot of avoidance to do. And I don't feel particularly like hiding out - but I can't afford the house by myself for much longer either. Of course he wanted to help me negotiate the sale yesterday with no word about how he restarted this process.
I'm over it. I'm angry and I'm disappointed. I give up. I don't want to be friends with him either. I'm upset because I don't know him, and I really hate this version of him. I feel he is selfish and I've never known him to be like this, which makes me sad - but he said that about himself last month. I really wanted to be married to him because I loved him and he adored me and yes, all those dreams of the three of us living in one house, interacting as a intact family - upset me. That is gone. It's dead.
I stopped by where he said he would be so I could get the house paper signed and faxed because it was due by 5. (He lied about which site he was at when I asked because he didn't want me to 'create a scene', which I never have before...) I talked to his coworker who I knew before (and she knew that we were separated) but I tried to not talk about H - just her baby and my kid. H called panicky... 7 times, and was messaging her asking if I was still there or was heading over.
I went to the site he finally told me he was at. He accused me of trying to create a scene by taking the long way around the building and taking my time when I left because I did park far away. (trying to relax, deep breaths, avoid any extra interaction with him was what I was doing) I didn't have anything else to say to him other than to get the house paper signed and turned in. He called me, panicky after I left, and accused me of still hanging around the building (nope) because he couldn't hear my car driving (yep. I was sitting in a parking lot not at his work - trying to finish my breathing and relax, avoid rush hour, and go pick up S without the extra stress).
He said I was making a scene... (I wasn't there...)
He said I stressed him out.
I said "I'm sorry that I stress you out. That is not my intention. Nor would I be interested in creating embarrassing scenes for you. I'm sorry if your perception is that of me, but that's not me. I don't gain anything by that - other than you would hate me. And I'm not that person."
And unfortunately I needed more papers signed without a scanner, so I had to go back (with S). H tried to engage me normally and when I only answered questions about the house, or smiled at what S was doing without commenting, and I only answered questions about S, H said 'Oh we can't be cordial?' I said: 'It wasn't cordial what went on today.' Maybe not the right answer...
Mission now: Kat's advice full speed. No more talking. At all. Kid and House. I thought he was coming around slowly by initiating talk about other topics. A ruse. He's going to be miserable, he's going to sigh when I don't respond other than a smile and as if I'm talking to a stranger. I was nice for 4 months and jumped on conversations if he initiated, or if he seemed more friendly. Like an idiot.
He is going to fully experience his new future now and I need to go dark for my own sanity. I'm leaving the house first thing in the morning tomorrow, and then on Sat/Sun I'm gone - with no communication to H. I've got the deadbolt locked now - no more walking in when he pleases - because I need to leave when he does that. He had that for 5 months. It didn't help. He will not stop at anything until he gets his D (and then we can 'remarry' as he says..ha.)
Journal:
Doing some reading late last night....
I don't know how I stumbled on this last night but I'm reading "Overcoming Passive-Aggression: How to Stop Hidden Anger from Spoiling Your Relationships, Career and Happiness" and I think it's wonderful.
I don't think there was ONE thing for me to improve in my relationship with him. I'm not perfect but I was a good wife. I know everyone has room for improvement. He thinks I was controlling - so I am working on that. Not surprisingly, it's because a passive aggressive person seeks out a more controlling/dominant spouse.
I was reading about communication in the previous months. I will still try to do the process of validating, but communicating with a PA person is exactly what I've experienced. Silence. Just me talking. Then when he doesn't feel in control - he will act out. Reading about PA - when I am in contact with H, I am going to have to ask "
I'm not in contact with him. The Push/Pull makes sense now. He wanted to keep me at a distance so he never had to be vulnerable. Pushes me away - but pulls me back in just so he knows I'm still there. He pushed me away with the secret filing - but pulled me back in over the weekend.
He pushes buttons so he'd get a reaction (ie not communicating AT ALL, ignoring me... or making a comment - then backs off so I appear crazy as I start to escalate and become frustrated about not getting a resolution or feedback. And then comes in anger. <-- he then justifies it as if I'm crazy and my anger was unprovoked...
It makes sense.... I've told him several times: "you drop bombs and then walk away acting like you didn't. Leaving me to deal with the damage to S and me and wondering why I get mad at you, when you threw the bomb to begin with."
So now what:
I'm a logical person - logical arguments/discussion does not work. I usually use deductive techniques to get to the issue and resolution. There are other techniques I will start to practice.
I will start to ask "oh I see you feel x about y, how would you handle that?" and it forces him to have make a choice. If he doesn't answer then I will say: "It looks like you may have to think about it a little more?" and then I'm going to get busy doing something else. If I 'guide' him - it's controlling.
Now that I know this... It reframes my entire relationship with him. I don't know what kind of relationship I will have with him in the future. I DO know: I really AM NOT crazy. I do not have an 'anger' problem. Other people in this position have spent their time looking at what was wrong with themselves and fixing it. Reevaluating and fixing.
So I think I've analyzed H enough. I got it. I'm going to be setting up boundaries now. Because without boundaries, I see I compromise MY self.
I have my GAL stuff, I've got things I like doing. Friends. I'm not going to be treating every little breadcrumb of goodness like it's the whole cake.
We might not make it through this - but I'll be okay. I will feel sorry for whoever he gets involved with next though!
When does he come out of his mood? This is normally his manic time but he isn't necessarily acting that way.
Best way to get through whatever is to come is to stay focused and don't let him draw you in. I don't know what he will do but really the lesson here is that you can only control yourself.
hang in there. kat
Hey LIO. PAs are complete pros at the "double bind". It's great that you notice that and there are ways to successfully get out of them with minimal damage.
Read up about double bind if you get a chance.
Kat: He usually comes out about now - there are some 'signs' of that - but nothing I'm hanging my hat on. He has stopped being hateful towards me, and is initiating a lot of morning conversations telling me about his plans along with breakfasts. I am currently working on the part where I don't get drawn into his mess.
I hear little comments such as'he wants to take S but I won't let him' - which is bait for me (we both know that I have told him several times that I was fine with it, but he still comes to the house).
KD: YES! - I just read about double-bind, and I've definitely experienced that. I am going to be reading more about PA.
Thought I would do a drive by and see how you are doing? Things going forward on the sale of the house? Have you been able to keep focusing on you and your son?
kat
Hiya Kat Thanks for stopping in! I'm sorry this is going to be huge - I should've come by earlier, but I was afraid my new changes were not going to last, and here we are!
I've left go of any expectations. Altogether. It feels so... zen. No longer anxious, no weight on my shoulders. Just calm. I can't really explain how that happened and it's relatively new (since my last post 08/03). I guess it's acceptance of 'this is my life RIGHT now. IT may not be my life in 3 years, much less 3 days - but RIGHT now - here I am' and I think that this has been one of the best experiences of my life (as crazy and messed up as that sounds giving all the drama before.) It boils down to 'I live' (not 'I survive'. I live) and NOW how do I want to live?
My house is still up for sale, had 20 people come by - but only 1 offer that I think they were not serious on (hadn't heard back from them in 2 weeks). So - still sitting here. I can't drop the house price anymore, so I'm looking at continuing to pay the mortgage myself (69% of my take home income, which is not what I want), saving the $ away without paying the mortgage (and if a buyer comes through, then catch the loan up) to get it in a short sale situation. I am not going to rent this house and have tenant issues. H will not be returning here - he has made it very clear. I don't feel like holding on 'hope' out of sacrificing the future for my son and I. I'm not rushing this housing decision (I would have 6 months before a foreclosure at least, 3 months before the bank will even discuss short sale with me), but I am looking at trying to put MY financial future in line. A lot can happen between now and then. Or not. Either way.
It's been 6 months since H dropped his bomb on me. 3 since he moved out. Life on his end: status unknown. My end?: Well, I've stopped any 'drive-by follow ups' (aka spying!), calling, and I've stopped texting all together, I actually don't even answer the phone when he does call now (it's always for S and if I did answer on a day like today - he was in a meeting that he hates and I do not need to receive the brunt of *that* mid-month pattern as evident in my sig!). H still comes over in the mornings, and on the weekends - then goes to his apartment at nights. Whenever I do think of H, it's just a passing thought of how he sounds miserable on the phone at work, and how every night - I am home with S, and he CHOOSES not to be and he sits in his furniture-less place, sleeping on the floor. (But hey, at least it's just 10 minutes away from his work!) I just repeat his words now: "It is what it is" (he was reconciling his own behavior to have no consequences). That just isn't MY life.
Let's see - I stopped asking questions (do you love me, do you want to move back home etc...) Not initiating sex, kisses, hugs. I actually don't even hardly initiate conversation anymore - he does now.
I do make it a point to:
-- be less stressed (with him or without him present)
-- to not be on the computer, distracted.
-- keep my house clean (this is for my benefit)
-- be pleasant to be around, funny, laughing, nice AND then make a excuse to leave the room
-- THE hardest thing I had to do this week was to not invite or push myself on his plans. He took S on their first ever camping trip. I just kept all those fear-based and jealous thoughts down. Worked out for all of us. They had fun, I had a mini-vacation where I could lounge around and do whatever I wanted for the 2 days. AND it was a big 180 accomplishment for me.
Things I've noticed (neither good nor bad, just observations):
-- The mood in the house is definitely different. Lighter for me.
-- I mentioned a month ago that he was on the computer distracted all the time. He stopped that this last week and had brought up that change with a smile.
-- He's been checking in with me on the weekends about his business plans. I just say "Oh that sounds great, have fun." 2 weeks ago he was telling me what he does isn't my concern. Now he is sharing. Maybe a courtesy thing. Doesn't matter - just different.
-- I stopped fighting. I've contemplated the phrase 'drop the rope'. I don't even want to touch the rope now. Part of my 'zen' moment was that I realized I didn't want to be bitter, uptight, stressed and frankly, any conversation while gripping that rope was me being all of those things.
-- He made a future plan *GASP!* with me (without me initiating it).
-- Got a 'pat' on the head the other day as he left the house... yeah..like a dog, lol. Was more affection then he's shown in 6 months and I did not initiate contact (was just sitting minding my own business, reading).
-- Been really enjoying my time with S. Just he and I - no thoughts at all of H or trying to involve H in the day.
So long of the short - yes, I am focusing on me and my S. He starts school this year, so it's a exciting time for us. I just got him enrolled, and now the fun of school shopping will begin! I'm starting to actually see my life as MY life - not one that I need to have attached to someone else. It's all so.... odd!
Sorry I haven't been by...swamped at work and at home. I suppose that is a good thing.
How are things progressing? Any changes?
kat
Changes.... well.....
getting into trouble again.
A couple of days ago H asked if he could come over (wasn't a good time - house showing and kid discipline issue) I said it wasn't a good time 4 times. H showed up anyway and was annoyed I had security bolt on.
Then
I was invited to the fair several times specifically, I was excited, I admit. H had also been telling me about his new job he might get. Then this morning I found a conversation between ANOTHER girl and H.
I lapsed.
I asked questions, made comments - was angry...all of it. Same as it was 6 months ago. I thought I was making some progress. Or at least that I had.
I had done so well... until a new "just a friend" entered in.
BUT....
I felt like I was paving the way to make him have a easier life at my own expense.
Every night I had S with me. Every night H got to do his own thing, go to his apartment, and come and go as he wished, using the TV, Internet, food, whatever. Come in, make breakfast for us, keep us 'happy' without connecting, then take off for his own things. Leaving me with house/kid/pet and no time for GALs.
Tonight, I had H bring S with him to his still-unfurnished apartment for first time in 7 months. I was lied to again. I decided I didn't want to feel hopeful. I was in limbo. I was told to do this months ago and I didn't.
I gave an ultimatum (Call her and tell her that whatever 'thing' they have is not 'appropriate' (based on some sexual innuendo from her) otherwise you will lose me for good). He wouldn't. He chose to talk to her and hang up when I approached. I am not okay with living the rest of my life with this as okay.
He left angry, but with S. I asked S to be returned by certain time (very reasonable) and was met with: "I will bring him back whenever I FEEL like bringing him back." Yeah... So loss of control?
I might have messed up. but i don't know. In the end - it's been 8 months since this started. The sentiment is still the same from him (wants divorce - me no divorce). I don't want to feel used anymore and I felt like he was never having to experience reality. And looking back, there hasn't been a time where he wasn't lying about his involvement with a girl. I'm really not a jealous person - I just know that every time H develops a friendship with a girl, 3/4 times, it turns into a EA or PA. So why should I treat this any different now?
I want to ask why you let his affairs, emotional or physical, go on. No, you can't end the affairs for him but you don't have to keep having your H have them in front of you.
I think it is time for the last resort...go dark. You are still too wrapped up in what he does. Treat him like the mailman. He deserves nothing more from you. He is still getting a rise out of you and you revert back to your old ways. Those didn't work before and they won't work now.
He doesn't believe you will leave because you have stuck around time after time. Your ultimatums carry no weight because you don't carry through. Don't give them unless you are ready to leave.
Weren't you going to move? Or is that all depending on you selling the house? House and son conversations only. Work on your life. I have told you before, the only people I knew that actually saved their marriages are the ones that had truly let go and were moving on without their spouses. No bluffing, so it isn't a game.
kat
Why I let it continue...
I had hope and faith in that he would 'see' what I saw - because in the past, he eventually came around (but did he?). I never thought of divorce actually until he brought it up. I don't know why. I guess I always thought of 'us together forever' and working through any issue no matter what because it made more sense to me to tackle a problem. But I didn't see it as the problem was within him.
I am going to sidetrack here. One thing that I am seeing as a theme is that I will 'protect' others from my H's behavior. His crazymaker, his moods... Why should I be the one who bears that burden? I am taking a huge step back here as you will read below and not rescuing other people. But I see I need to commit to rescuing myself too.
Moving was dependent on selling the house - which hasn't sold or had any other offers. I met with a second agent yesterday and found out some very helpful information. I am firing my agent tomorrow and hiring a new one. H and I talked about that today.
Just journaling here:
I should have set up the S going to H's house boundary earlier! (it appeared that he used the furniture as an excuse). S hated it over there - no toys, no furniture, no tv, nothing to do. And boy - did H hear about it from S!
I will say now, he is involved with one heck of a woman.
She is trashing me, calling me crazy, then at the same time writing passive aggressive things so I see it. Then posting some of his blog entries so she can 'connect' with him (again so I see it), and writing comments like "it's better to wait for something that you want, then to regret not doing it". Fun!
I've since blocked her - but he also sees a copy so at least I'm not 'making it up'. There's some drama going on for her (it's always one-sided, he doesn't respond to emails often) as she is going on and my junk mail is getting bigger each time I look at the count (not reading it not reading it). Two I read before I blocked it was something about how he is hot/cold. Then later she tried to talk to him tonight on phone (after of course she couldn't reach him ALL day today (yeah.... he is with his son!), he didn't want to talk and "she doesn't get it and is confused." (Yeah - honey...no sympathy, no words from me here - call ME crazy?! Talk to him.)
With the first contacts from her, I had what I will call a final rise from me - and I stopped mid sentence and said "wow, you both got what you want. You got a rise and she got the satisfaction of knowing that I am pissed and that I know about her. I don't HAVE to have this in my life - it's drama and I don't need it and it blocks my nice life I'm setting up for MYSELF and our son. Have at it." He went silent. I didn't talk to him for 1.5 days until today when he called. I said I was finally ready to let him go. He deserves to be happy and if that's the type of life he wants, I'm not stepping in his way. I deserve to be happy and I can't spend the rest of my life with women coming in and out like that and that means he will accept that I won't be a part in his life anymore except to email him only about S's school stuff if I have to. I've got my goals now and they don't involve him anymore.
I am complying with what a court would say for custody. He got S on Fri/Sat,. In the conversation today, he said the only time I was "crazy" was when he lied and continued to lie when evidence pointed otherwise and calling me crazy deflected that from him. Wow. an admission. Finally.
But onto things I'm more thinking about now (which isn't H, I promise!)
Tomorrow S starts school. I am nervous! It's the first time in 5 years that I will be on a 'schedule' that I can't mess up (or I make him late for school). And the first time I will be apart from him eek! I might cry!
My GOALS:
I redefined them over the weekend after getting fun fun fun emails from the chick. While I loved my husband - I don't like the crazymaker part. It's too distracting and focuses me on him (I do see this and am constantly working on that).
My goals are to get S to school on time,
get my work under control
get my behind running more and working out (Running outdoors is going to be more difficult as I'm living like a single parent 95% of the week now)
Sort of long-term:
I have my finances going well. I'm proud of that. I am making headway now.
This was a cycle that you both lived in. You stayed so what was the big deal? Well hon it is not how marriage should be. It is just two people in it not three. Believe me after being married 17 years with 4 kids I was all over the place! My then H would be over all of the time (cake eating). I told him I was tired of living in limbo and well he chose the bimbo.
It took probably a good three years after the divorce to get to a fairly good place and once in a while I do have slips where it gets me. I really do hope you can save your marriage but your H has a ton of work to do. I am not sure he is willing to do that. Just don't accept anything less than what you do deserve.
Hugs, kat
Hiya Kat!
I so appreciate you stopping in. I really need to hear life from people who lived it too.
Just some random thinking tonight.
On 'saving' this marriage. I don't think I have anything I want to save. I am not perfect, I have faults. I am only wanting to work on ones that bother me right now because I don't think that I AM the problem. Is he willing to do the work? Do I care to wait around? Did I just see a bit of 'trying' from him today? I said 'thank you' and left it at that.
First day of school and wow... I definitely needed this to happen. Consistency, healthy routine for this house. Something I've been missing for years. H called to talk to S about school and did a night prayer on phone with both of us (something we just started to do last night as S is going to a religious school).
So it has been about a week. How are you guys settling into the new school routine? Have you been able to stay resolved and only discuss house and son?
Thinking of you and hoping all is well.
kat
Hi Kat,
It's difficult. I am not going to whine about it.
The school routine is tiring for me because I have to get up to do all the kiddo stuff, get him to school, pick him up, do the homework with him and repeat. and still get in 8 hours of work. H works so late that he doesn't even get out until 10 or 11.
H calls every night to do the evening prayer with S. He includes me in it, but I can't read into it.
journaling (I have to do this more since I miss out on other's posts AND mine end up huge!)
Since that Sunday conversation:
He told me that Monday (09/06) he wants to 'try'. He stopped contacting the girl that weekend. Avoided her. And then he 'broke it off' with the girl this Monday when she attempted to talk to him in person. She's lamenting now and then writing things like 'maybe they just aren't ready for now, but it doesn't mean forever'. For a 2 week relationship... He still sees her posts and says it doesn't matter what she writes - he doesn't care and he said it's immature what she writes. He broke it off with her in person, (she posted it) He won't respond, he won't call, he won't text her. Avoidance still. I'd feel sorry for her if she didn't try to push it all in my face.
Note to self regarding that he 'sees' her posts: LET....IT....GO.... Controlling = me asking him to block her. He will get sick of her 'forever' talk. Makes him resentful (how well do I know THAT!?) I do have to keep away from it too. It's a trigger to see some woman (girl!)
He's communicating more (our communication had been me assuming and him assuming. So I'm having to validate and ask clarifying questions). Sometimes this is extremely frustrating for both of us.
He wants to 'try'...
He's been now saying "I understand how you feel" (I know in db'ing validating is important - but to have this done to me, how can you possibly UNDERSTAND how I feel!?) Which led to a frustrating but helpful exchange. I found out he really means: "I hear what you are saying, and I may not jump to action on what you want me to do right now, but I do hear you and will consider it." I told him that I was glad that he explained it to me because just replying "I understand how you feel" was a blow off response to me. He said he then understood why I would be frustrated with that. (umm. who is validating who here?!)
He's STOPPED saying he wants a divorce, especially when he was angry. He had a opportunity today to say it and would've said it in that situation before. I expected it to come out and he didn't say it. He said "You are frustrating me right now and I'm getting angry" (Telling me his feelings now rather than just hanging up and turning inwards).
I'm finding myself looking at his actions differently. I see why he is doing what he was doing (a wife who complained, who gave him a hard time, who he'd drive so far home to see... no wonder why he was tired!)
I see that on the weekends, he stayed over every day/night for the 3 days. I see why he is doing that (it's not using me), I see his weekdays ARE exhausting with long hours and driving 30 min one way on top of that is NOT appealing.
So some real 180s for me:
I am telling him about my appreciation of what he does.
I validate his feelings in light of this NEW behavior of him telling me his feelings.
I am TRYING to butt out of decisions.
No relationship/future talks.
Smile and laugh when he is here on weekend.
He wants to 'try'. So I think I continue on with this.
His lease ends in December. Our house is starting the sale process tomorrow (round 2!)
I am such a freaking moron and am so mad at myself.
Why do I do this?
Saturday H was being a little evasive about where he was going. I said 'oh, okay... was just curious'. He finally said he was going to a friend's house (friend who he lied about going to before).
I saw that he groomed himself a little more than usual.
I knew the latest girl was in town. I stupidly checked online and and of course, she is posting where she is going to be. It wasn't until I read about her drinking his favorite drink that I started to think that he lied. (He didn't). Then she posted about how she wanted to 'take care of' and would have amazing sex with my Husband that night. I called him freaking out. He didn't return my call until an hour later. He didn't see her. He was where he said he would be.
So I got mind-played and it was my fault for looking.
The next morning, I tried to explain how my a+b looked like it would equal c. I was still upset at the thought and how stupid I was. He was tired from being up so late and told me that he didn't want to have responsibilities and he liked how he was living. He came over and I was so frustrated and made some list that showed him how much I was actually responsible for (99% of the work), vs his playing video games and watching S for 1.5 days. That made him irritated with me. I told him I was too stressed over having to take care of the entire house maintenance, selling it, all the chores, doing everything for S to get ready for and attend school, pick him up, do the night stuff, work full time also - and I didn't have time to work on anything else.
He was shutting down emotionally and it just rolled down hill. We got into childish fight, reminiscent of early March. He said it would be easier if we just divorced. He took off after getting to the point of frustration where he broke a door jamb after I locked him out when he was leaving. I called and called him and called him. Like a moron. I wanted to 'talk' and he didn't. He eventually turned off the phone.
I am so mad at myself for regressing so much. For me acting childish.
I am angry that I am responsible for everything.
I am angry that I thought he wanted to 'try' like he said. But was it just to appease me and so he could still come/go as he wanted? Was it legitimate?
I am angry at myself for allowing that stupid girl to get in my head.
H works a different schedule than I do. He can't change it. I need help. If H gets S ready for school, that means he needs to come over here each morning. Is that acceptable? I was trying to keep boundaries but I'm cracking right now. It's a lot of work and I don't know how to manage it all.
Journal:
I have to turn this around for me.
Ok...thinking.
--I need to make sure I go to work. I can't regress into a mess.
--I can ask my mom/dad to come over midweek so I can get out of the house.
--Do not pursue H. Let him call. If he doesn't feel like it, it's not me. It's him. Do this for the week.
--Stop checking her damn messages. Willpower.
Not sure if I should just look at moving out now. Just cut the cord. leave the house.
I am not feeling rational right now.
Journal: Stealing from Cadet's post for a reminder:
------------------------------
Reconnection starts with things, animals, children and we are last.
So this could be part of the script.
All you can do is treat him like a squirrel.
No sudden movements that might scare him away.
Consistent actions is more important than anything else.
Keep up your changes and have more patience.
_________________________
H came over, fixed the door jamb. I made a joke about it which he took well. He apologized for the door, I apologized for reading her posts and despite him not contacting her, making her words HIS action. I told him I would not read her posts, and her words are NOT his and I was wrong and ruined the whole day. He got uncomfortable. He left shortly after (his intention anyhow). And here I am.
I texted him thank you for the door. I will not be contacting him again. (Yes Kat, I DO mean it.)
What worked for the last couple of weeks was I was low drama and the other girl was high drama. She still is. I can't handle the anxiety and stress and I need to back off NOW. Also, H acknowledged that the 2 weeks he didn't 'fight', neither did I. Life just flowed. It was nice and no stress.
Ok. Back to square one.
--What do I want out of life?
--I am avoiding what?
--What have I been missing out on for the last 2 years?
Keep going the path you are on. Remember not to get excited over positive crumbs and it is fine to ask him to clarify something . Don't tell him what he has to do. There will come a time when if things are to work between you then that can all be laid out but not right now when he is just starting to put his head back on his shoulders.
Feel free to journal more. I will keep a look out for you. kat
Journal: Received a 'chat' from H asking me if i was going to fill in the paperwork. Gah....
He says it's drama that I 'fight it'.
He doesn't want drama in his life.
Do I do it? Or do I just wait it out and let his emotions calm? Our fight was bad, and I took his shoes when he tried to walk out. Not at all my best moment. I am embarrassed. I hate that he wants to have no responsibility, he doesn't want to talk things out. He leaves when he doesn't get his way. I get frustrated that I am trying to clarify, or I don't get a confirmation and he walks away. There is no communication in that. Even when he said he was going to 'try'... what did that mean.
If I attempt to set up boundaries, then I am punished. Or it's me being 'controlling'. The punishment is usually him to throw out is divorce paperwork. Sometimes it's him starting a friendship with someone (only to have her turn out like this other gal). Or him avoiding me further.
Let him. that's the answer.
And no contact from my side. No emails, phone calls, texts. Time to go back to that. Yes, the positive crumbs do not make up a loaf of bread.
Journal: Received a 'chat' from H asking me if i was going to fill in the paperwork. Gah....
He says it's drama that I 'fight it'.
He doesn't want drama in his life.
Do I do it? Or do I just wait it out and let his emotions calm? Our fight was bad, and I took his shoes when he tried to walk out. Not at all my best moment. I am embarrassed. I hate that he wants to have no responsibility, he doesn't want to talk things out. He leaves when he doesn't get his way. I get frustrated that I am trying to clarify, or I don't get a confirmation and he walks away. There is no communication in that. Even when he said he was going to 'try'... what did that mean.
If I attempt to set up boundaries, then I am punished. Or it's me being 'controlling'. The punishment is usually him to throw out is divorce paperwork. Sometimes it's him starting a friendship with someone (only to have her turn out like this other gal). Or him avoiding me further.
Let him. that's the answer.
And no contact from my side. No emails, phone calls, texts. Time to go back to that. Yes, the positive crumbs do not make up a loaf of bread.
"scraps" do suck. I always tell people, even an "average" relationship beats a bad one, where you know you are being "cheated".
I just said on another post, you may have got caught in a "persuer-distancer" arrangement, and you may just have to do your own thing for a while and the WAS may just pursue, and if they do not, you had to do it anyway.
Lio, sorry you're having a bad day.
I also had an argument with H last night and posted today about not settling for accepting a life where I'm happy to get any crumbs that H will throw my way.
Be strong and let your H make the effort. If he truly wants to try and make it work, he'll be willing to do some of the work himself.
Concentrate on yourself for now. That way, no matter what happens, you know that you'll be okay.
It's hard, and I'm trying to give myself the exact same advice, although my H doesn't seem to want it to work right now. I need my H to really find out what life would be like if he chooses to end our M and maybe yours needs to see that too. Back off and let him make the moves for now.
THank you SweetBabyRed for stopping in! I am learning more and more about myself, and all the things I can improve on. I always thought I was a great wife, who did anything for my H.
I see now that I have work to do.
I argue, I push. I don't let things go.
I found this post that I am going to do:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2148215&page=1on getting busy with something else. If I say something and H doesn't respond or want to talk, I need to go clean a closet.
He isn't talking to me now, so I may have all the closets cleaned shortly. May need to move on to the garage!
He certainly loves to play games with you. No one says you have to play too. Walk away from his games and keep on the strong path.
hugs, kat
Games. Yes and I didn't want to play today. I've been thinking about how I want to spend my life. How I can stop playing into the game.
Today I felt stronger.
I decided that if we talked, I would be chipper. But since I see it's a game to him, I decided to not waste my effort.
The rainy season is coming up (urgh). I have some new goals for the next 3 months:
1) get my son some hiking boots. We are going to go outside. I don't think it's fair to keep him inside all year. We need to get used to the rain.
2) I saw that a local gymnastics club has adult classes. It's something I've always wanted to try since I was a kid - so I'm going on Friday! Eek!
3) My weight loss is actually happening! I'm starting to look like someone who likes to exercise. I discovered a new section in the bookstore now that I no longer spend time in the diet/weight loss section.
4) Going to get back into some sketching and work on a art journal. Will help get some of this anxiety out, and put it to good use!
5) S has been asking for some roller skates. May have to pick up some for myself! Will take him to the skating rink first
6) I enrolled in a parenting class. I think I'm a good parent, but any help will help. Plus they cover dealing with argumentative teens. Okay...I'll say it. I admit that maybe I'm hoping I'll learn some techniques that I can practice on H right now. By time my S (5) is a teenager, then I should know what works!
I'm feeling good today. My dad said something we all know: "Just do things that you want to do. Don't worry about how it will affect your H."
Checking in.
Kat, to answer your question, I didn't know about the one night stand until years later (7 years later). Out of his own guilt.
The last EA I stepped in when I found out about it (leading me here in Feb), and that was 'controlling'. He didn't get to end it himself. Which he responded by filing divorce paperwork.
The previous EA was starting and he lied about his whereabouts (we were about 22 then). I said that it was inappropriate behavior of a married man. He quit that job the next day.
Journal:
So here we are...Thursday
The newest girl had contact with me. He broke it off with her 2 weeks ago, and she has been spiraling since.
I found out the 'relationship' was 3 months (she volunteered that). I said "I don't think it's going to do any of us any good if we talk about our experiences with each other", she figured that H was just waiting for me to sign, and NOT having sex with me. I didn't say one way or another. Just stayed quiet about that and talked about how if she ended up with him that I cared about her being good to my son. If not, than everyone is on their own paths, and our job is to make sure our S's (she has 1 boy 1 year old) was to be good moms, be there, and make wiser choices on who we select as men to show our S's how to be fathers/husbands. I didn't want to talk about my relationship with H. I told her there are 'No answers I could give on why my H does what he does. There is no use asking or thinking about it, it will just drive you crazy and then you get painted as being crazy' She flipped and started to call/text my H saying he used/played her because we were still having sex (I didn't confirm/deny - just stayed quiet).
Series of phone calls on Thursday to me, first H was calm, second call was anger, third removed from situation. All within 3 hours. She is reporting him to his job (I don't know how that works, or if it matters, but nonetheless, he doesn't like public displays like that and said he is quitting regardless now - see EA#1 above).
I am hurt that he had sex with her, but I am not surprised. We are separated. There could be more girls later, there could not be. I fall into that stupid comparison of her vs me. I need to work through this for myself so I can detach more.
H and I talked about non-relationship stuff on Friday. He didn't go to work and is looking for other work. I said I felt bad for him that he was having his work involved. He said he probably would've been fired at some point anyhow because she was going to crack anyhow, and it's a new opportunity for him. We talked about non-relationship stuff Saturday, and today. I did not bring up the girl, what happened. anything. Not my business, and it's his issue.
I've been distant. Polite strangers as Kat says.
GALS:
I went out by myself Friday night while H was here with S. I didn't tell my plans, just went to a bar and met a nice couple who has very similar interests and jobs. We clicked. I came home and made polite conversation about H's project before he started to leave and I was excited to get started on my own project and had such happiness in my attitude.
Note: I did NOT mean for this to sound like I was trying make H jealous. This is what I would tell a person in my field as well. I said 'oh I talked to this guy who is doing xx development and he gave me some great insight on how to break into that, is your group using x or y technology?
H confused "Wait, didn't you go with a girlfriend?"
Me: "No, so do you use x or y because I found out..."
H interrupts, sounding hurt: "So you went alone to a bar?"
Me: "yeah. so do you use x or y because (and I finished my question).
H: "uh...I don't know. Um, the newest thing is um.."
finished conversation before he rushed out the door.
He showed up the with some groceries, and breakfast. Early. No fighting. I took off for 6 hours unaccounted for while he and S went outside. Didn't talk about what I did when I got back. Just stayed mysterious.
Bought some cute clothes. I am on a mission now to look GOOD at all times. No sweats, no hiding. Keep getting my booty in shape and show it off.
Not gonna be crying after him. I am not putting anything into his encounters above either. No more.
Sunday (today), H came over and made breakfast and spent an hour downloading music for my new device. I thanked him. I went for a walk, and then up for a shower. Giving him space. LOTS of space. He specifically came up to say bye to me when he left for a meeting.
Not calling, not emailing. Not contacting. I'm moving forward. I enjoyed my GALS, didn't do it to tell him about it, did it because I needed to deal with the anxiety I feel, I need to meet other people, and I need to live life outside of what H is doing. Or what his OW is saying or doing.
Job situation tomorrow unknown. He will deal with it the way he knows how. I am trying to not 'feel' for him. I am trying to work out my anxiety quietly.
ok question time:
how do I get over this thought of this skanky party girl.
She posted a song and it's one of H's favorite songs -so every time I hear it, I think of her.
What point would it be okay to ask H if he wants to try a marriage workshop.
He just busies himself with work/business that I don't know if this ever is a priority anyway.
Well for one, you ought to know by now that she doesn't mean anything to him. None of them have.
Secondly, you guys aren't ready for any marriage workshop as he isn't showing you that he wants to be in the marriage and make amends. that is when the real work begins. don't be surprised to find yourself more angry with him then. You have been putting those hurts on hold while you are working on you.
I am still listening. kat
Bah frustrating! I just lost my post!
Always level-headed Kat
Yes, I do know. To ignore someone like that to that extreme, to call her stupid, like a 13 year old, to say she is 'crazy'.
I am going to be honest - it disgusts me more that he acts like that then that he had sex with her. I don't know her. But to treat people like that... Well I am having a serious question with do I want to be around a person like that, and IS he this person.
Not ready for a marriage workshop yeah, but I will get the book in the next couple of weeks and read. I did read a 'How to handle difficult people' pamphlet today. I am going to try a few of those techniques.
Basically, even though he is adamant about pushing my buttons, I need to be consistent, firm and loving. Even if he hates it right now. I need to work on consistency. Stop being emotional and be stone like. Which also means we do NOT have ANY discussions if I am tired or hungry.
I enrolled in a parenting class from my son's church school. Was good, goes on for the next month. It's about turning 'me' to 'we' - a bit difficult to do with someone who doesn't want there to be a 'we', even if means WE parent.
Gonna go off and make a list of things i need to do to take better care of myself mentally, physically and go to bed. Tough week.
Just journaling for day:
H took S with him to his apartment last night. 2nd time. Very difficult for me
He also took S to the zoo. I told H that was great, because for so many years, I had asked H to do some family activities, and H didn't. He told me last night that he put work as the first priority.
S told H all day how much he missed me and his dog.
H took S home early, and both stayed for the rest of the day. I invited H to come over tomorrow if he wanted to.
H's reaction last night reminded me of thinking about times I messed up, blew up, got angry... This is what H remembers of me, my temper.
Yes, I was angry and hurt because I had no idea what was going on. No communication, and lies.
How in the beginning H was hurting, and I sat there and used logic and every phone call every night was me beating him in the head with it. How when I went to his apartment and I looked at it and was disappointed that 'this was how he was living'.
How even a few weeks ago, I still tried to get him to 'see'.
I can see how he feels now with me. Why he says he was stressed. How he sadly says once in awhile: "But I moved out." He was looking for approval.
Yes there is a lot of messed up things that happen...
Bottom line is I need to hold my tongue, and work on my temper.
Journal:
Went to bed with the question of: "Without mentioning M, R, D, what is making me unhappy?" I found that on another thread.
I woke up. My answer was I am lonely and have been for several years. I have also always been 'waiting' for something. Waiting for a job change, waiting for schedule changes. Waiting. I don't enjoy 'now'. In the now, I am treading water but don't know if I am waiting to get rescued, or if eventually I will swim. No progress.
I had the oddest thought when I woke up this morning. When I think about H, it was like a giant screen of static. Nothing discernible, no feelings, no thoughts. No 'what ifs'. Just a bunch of nothing.
Him at his place sleeping on the floor. Nothing. I even thought about him getting into a relationship with yet another person. How I would handle that. Nothing.
The last time he had a 'mental' problem 10 years ago, we were separated for 6 months. During that time we were in love, it was that he couldn't handle life. He had no purpose. I remember that I was concerned that I didn't care as much at the end of 6 months. I am not concerned anymore. The gaping hole is starting to scar up.
I haven't emailed him, I called twice yesterday. No relationship talk then. I don't plan on calling today. He will need to initiate any conversation. He's made it evidently clear that he does not want to talk to me whatsover. SO, my part is the genie in the bottle, as I've always been for him: "As you wish."
Still waiting for house to sell. I have stuff to sell inside.
I'd like to get a month done of the 100's workout. Each day. It's something I can do at home.
This weekend, like to go to church on Sunday and then hiking with S.
S has some school activity nights, like movie nights. I will take him to that.
If it makes you feel any better, I even printed out articles on Mid-life crisis for my now ex to read. He took them and didn't say a whole lot. He never was a knight in shining armour for me though I believe he wanted to be. Thing was, rather than figuring out how to do that for us, he just found someone easier to impress.
An example of how he could have done more: While we were still arguing this whole thing out and he was renting a house, we had a major ice storm and I was without power for 2 days. He just had to light a pilot on the heater for his rental and would have had heat, I had none. He wouldn't bother to light the pilot but just piled on blankets.
The 2nd night the kids were fed up with his ideas and came home. Luckily the power came on right before we figured out how to all get close to the little fireplace. I sent the kids to him because he could at least keep them warm....they just can't be bothered when they are in their messed up fog.
Keep having fun with your son. Can you invite friends over and watch movies or make potluck dinner?
kat
How are you? Just wanted to check in.
kat
I am at a loss.
Yesterday I lost it... I was so angry and upset and everything. Every emotion.
I figured he's got some sort of girlfriend or something now. He didn't show up to his apartment for a whole night. His personal business is HIS personal business, and not mine.
That didn't bother me... too much.
I actually don't know how to compose this - so it's going to be a verbal vomit.
This is a man who does not talk. at all.
He's angry, calling me names, swearing, yelling, sounds depressed, but says he's not. I'm having difficulties detaching right now.
He told me yesterday that 3 years ago, he felt like I didn't love him, I didn't want to be involved in his interests, I didn't care about what he was doing. So he went and found a girlfriend (now or then - I didn't ask)...
This is true. There are a lot of reasons for this. I always loved him - but other priorities and our stupid schedules got in the way, and I couldn't handle stress and loneliness.
He said that it didn't matter anymore, and everything was too little too late.
(This is ALSO the year that he got the first girl involved in a EA... so I don't know if it's just a excuse, justification at this point).
I rushed over to his apartment, gave him a huge huge hug and told him how sorry I was, and how I understood how he felt. I said "I can't do anything about the past, all i can tell you is that I always loved you, even then. and I won't abandon you like that again. I know you say it's too late."
I don't know what to do anymore.
Ignoring him just pushes him away further. Talking to him about our relationship makes him upset.
Well, month 8 of what not to do.
Got into a fight today. A real fight.
I went to his apartment. Shouldn't have. Bad thinking. My fault on that. Note that I will NEVER be at his apartment again. It is a horrible horrible trigger for me. No furniture, a card prominently displayed from not a girlfriend on the dishwasher.
I am mentally and physically exhausted.
I have son all the time. H's work schedule hasn't changed, and I don't know if it ever will.
I work full time. S is at school for 6 hours, and then I have him all evening: M-Th, friday is school and H picks him up and takes him out for a couple of hours, and then the weekends - S is here... most of Saturday, and all of Sunday. H has taken him over twice to his apartment before S gets upset and says he misses me and his dog. H is coming over some weekdays to help with breakfasts. I do appreciate that, but not sure if I should say it or not.
I blew up at H after he told me I needed to get counseling because I'm not handling this well. I told him "I have gone to counseling before, and every time the counselor tells me that I have too much of the responsibilities, I need to set boundaries with H, and then when I do, H says I'm too controlling because of it."
H promised that he was going to help more.
I am tired of living on hopes and ifs.
I asked him if he had preferences for babysitters. "trustworthy" is all he says. Ok...
My inlaws told me this weekend to pack up and move S and I down to where they live, and leave H. My parents live here, but they work and really S is active for them. My inlaws are retired and would be able to take care of S.
I feel hopeless here. trapped.
You are going through a lot and being tired makes things seem worse. Are there short term options for getting some additional help w S? Can you let him stay with his grandparents just long enough for you to recharge? What about moving there temporarily? Like they say, the best way to eat an elephant us just one bite at a time so maybe there are initial steps you can start now that might give you a bit of a break. Hope that makes sense. Hang in there. We're all pulling for you and here to help.
Caged animals do crazy things...caged people aren't much different.
Perhaps it is time for new scenary. kat
Thank you two for your comments - much needed.
Unbidden - thank you, yes small steps...small bites:
I need to get my anxiety/stress under control.
So how to not be a caged person in the meantime...
I actually like that statement Kat... I think I'll print it up and put it where I see it. Not as an excuse, but as a reminder to not be in a cage.
making the big move:
I am flying out to visit with the inlaws in a couple of weeks with S and we will check out the schools. I have a referral for a family lawyer to see if I can even move or what my options are. I would ideally love to keep S in the same school all year, but I will put in a few changes below and see where I stand in a few months.
meeting up with friends regularly:
I did find meeting with my friends this week helped my mood Friday. I scheduled meetups during my lunch break - so it was a nice break in the day, plus they are supportive. I try to not get into my situation too much because they know I don't want it to 'define' me. Also, I don't want to talk about it all the time.
Tomorrow a girlfriend and I are going to be attending a church service (first time in months). We also found that the church has a single moms group which sounds promising for both of us. And it has a divorce care group and one for the kids.
Re: H
Someone posted in another thread about just go with the thought that their spouse was 'up to no good'. That keeps me from snooping, spying or asking questions.
Thinking of how to make the most of my encounters.
And HOW I am going to handle the button pushing. What my script will be. I am practicing that script daily, otherwise if I am unprepared I do feel like a caged trapped animal. Which means I will lash out and fight. So to not fight, I am working on humorous responses. To lighten up.
Was thinking about what made him fall in love with me. We had bad schedules then too. So...
I had friends. I was social. I was into art, complimented him and smiled at him.
I hadn't been doing any of that - and focused too much on negative parts of him for this year.
Regardless if he and I work out together, I will be happier when I am doing those things.
I was trying something different with H today and will try it this month. It's not what I am used to, makes me uncomfortable in a way - but I am mirroring his way he showed his love for me way back years ago. I will post how that goes.
Not really...
He called me last Friday and asked me how my day was. Never happened before.
He also made a comment about how I haven't called in 2 days and while it was nice, he wanted to know how my day was.
We got into a fight Friday night. Yikes. I held my tongue longer than usual... but not a success. Will keep working on that.
Saturday was fine, Sunday he said he'd show up and never did. Didn't expect him to anyway. S and I went to church.
I'm looking at apartments downtown in the city. Never lived there - always in the suburbs, and it seems like an interesting thought. At least I could keep the job I've got for a bit and keep S in the same school.
Though I kind of like the thought of an adventure elsewhere...
I looked up international travel. Thought about making plans for S and I. I would've loved H to go - but that's off the table now.
I have the next 3 days off - I hope I'll be productive
Also, I'm the one instigating the fights. I get stonewalled. Rather than walk away, it eats at me. I have to figure out how to stop this. I know, free will.....
I'm reading a book that did help me 'last' longer than normal without getting angry. So maybe at the end of it with some practice, I will be able to let it go.
Reading RoughEnough's thread, which I am loving - will have to post over there too. (
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD)
25YearMLC's question of what (Rough Enough) is afraid of made me think...
i am afraid of being alone (already am...)
i am afraid of doing things by myself (I already have been...)
i am afriad that i don't know what i like to do anymore (hmmm)
i am afraid that i need to have someone with me all the time
i am afraid of being stuck doing things i've always done just because i don't push myself.
i am afraid of making big changes just in case he wanted to come back
I also started to think about what I needed that I didn't get in my relationship.
Companionship. Even doing laundry together would've been a step forward. Eating food together... hasn't happened in years.
Sex. Being told no. Telling no. Frustrating.
Speaking of being told no. I would ban the word! If I ask if my H wants to play video games together: "No" want to go for a walk: "no". Everything is no. No thanks!
I see our lives got separated with the split schedule. I also see he vicariously lives through phone calls to 'share' in the day. That's not living.
Sitting on the couch TOGETHER is important to me. Eating. Even something silly like laundry. Just something.
Yes, I can live life on my own - separate and be fine. But I don't think humans are meant for such isolation. It would throw me into depression and then continue to throw me down further into depression.
Talked on the phone about this. Just me talking. I said that not that it matters - but I won't be nor could be a relationship at all like that.
So what am I afraid of now?
Being in a relationship where I am virtually alone. The relationship I've had with H for 2 years.
Being stuck in holding pattern waiting for a man who is depressed and seeks short term solutions to make himself feel better briefly.
Being dependent on someone who doesn't think about anyone other than himself.
Day 1: success.
This weekend (Friday, Sat) H is over. I did not argue with him, pick a fight, bring up R talks... phew. I was very chill. Made sure to dress hot, not crowd H, and be the woman that H initially fell for. It felt good - relaxed. Of course I've had the last 3 days off work, so no stress for me either
One of my goals is to not be a director.
H invited S and I to pumpkin patch. He mentioned it two weeks ago and then never said a word, then called me a few days ago asking what the pumpkin situation was (were we buying them at the store or...) I said 'oh you mentioned the pumpkin patch but I didn't know if that was still on' 'Oh yes, yes! Let's do that on Friday'
So we went. I backed off entirely. He had his iPod speaker in one ear (guess he couldn't back away from the music). I would've normally been annoyed - but I figured it's his safety escape. He made a few jokes, played with S while I talked with a woman I met there (figured I didn't need to be 'right on top' of S and H's activity, plus I like being social, and it extended our stay.
Did the pumpkin thing.
H said he was going to bring his laundry over and would pay me to do it. I haven't done his laundry in about 4 years. I didn't object- he joked about it being a pumpkin payment.
H also asked me about if I have been scoping out apartments. I didn't really respond specifically (leaving some mystery) as he told me to check them out at different days/times (hopefully avoiding the mistake we made when we bought the house).
I know H is interested in where I'm moving as I had casually mentioned I was looking in the city (a big draw for him - but he can't afford it).
Oh and I've been GALing up a storm! Been using my parents as babysitter, which I think they are appreciating more now that they are officially empty-nesters.
Day 2: A success! (My success is when I don't end up yelling, getting angry, swearing, pressuring - and when I can spend the time smiling and being chill).
One thing that I'm not sure if I should do or not: pursuing - just slightly (no pressuring) and only in person. So I mean like being flirtatious. I didn't do it before (well I did when I first met him), it was a problem for him in more recent years. Now, it seems like he enjoys me pursuing him because it gives him the 'control'. I should just keep observing reactions for a bit.
Misunderstood re: laundry - he likes doing his own. Wanted to use my machine. Go for it. I mentioned: 'oh I thought you wanted me to do it. I thought it was sweet that you know how I like showing my love with doing things for others'. We finished up as a 'family' with one basket for the 3 of us.
Had a good day with H. He made dinner and took off as usual. Said he was going to play video games with a male friend (eh... true or not who knows, I've 'heard' it before). "Oh sounds fun"
Physically I'm feeling great, mentally I'm trying to stay chipper. Listening to positive music and messages today.
Getting some more stuff cleared out for the eventual move to(???)
Most importantly! - I think I might have found my calling! I have to do some studying to accomplish it - but I am very excited about pursuing a career doing something I get great satisfaction out of. My goal is to transition by June. And the median salary is what I am earning currently (enough to be independent fully paying for S and I, if H ever stopped paying for S), so financially I would be confident in switching my career.
Journal:
I'm never as detached as I'd like to be.
H is taking s to a movie. I wasn't invited. I am hurt and I know I shouldn't be or be surprised.
I am a quality time person, I've always asked h to do things either by ourselves or with s, and even if he declined, at least he had the offer.
I tried to be chipper about it, my voice doesn't lie I guess. I was upset and my voice was strained.
H is at my house tonight and tomorrow, usually I'm there hanging around but Maybe i shouldnt be now. I want to be but nothing has changed except h has a new address (still no furniture) and maybe I'm too available.
I haven't left much since feb.. Otherwise I'm always available. H always knows I'm at home w son.
It just seems like this horrible continuation of what led up to this - our ships always passing. But now worse since I sleep by myself.
How do you be an example of love by withdrawing?
How do you be a lighthouse yet be unpredictable.