Hello. This is my first post.. I'm not sure how the moderation works, but I don't want to make this too long to not get responded to. Long story short, I feel like I have a WAW. Both 34, we have daughter which was hers from another R. Sounds strange, but we have been married twice to each other. first in front of my father as his last wish, second the originally planned... Many things inbetween, but after only one short year, she has stated she wants divorce and has asked me to leave. After the last few months of being apart, things have not been getting any better, especially for me. I would like to explain in much greater detail, but I want to make sure this doesn't get passed over. I have a coaching session scheduled for
Tuesday this week.Any thing that can be helped ASAP would be much appreciated.
1702 - I'm sorry you find yourself here. The more frequent your posts, the quicker you will come off moderation. How about you start by telling us about what you think may have caused your wife to want a divorce. Be sure to tell us both sides of the equation.
Also, if you are in active pursuit of your WAW, please stop that now. Do not send gifts or letters of affection. Do not call or text for any reason other than emergency. You should also give your W as much space as you can, and then some. Get yourself busy focusing on things other than your marital crisis.
Keep posting and we will find you.
Take care!
Nothing will be helped ASAP. Sorry, this takes time.
Lots of time and patience.
Have you read the books? If not, that's something you should do ASAP.
What are your wife's complaints?
Is there an other man (OM)?
You can do a longer post with the details but it does help to break it up into small paragraphs.
I have found that Journaling on here when I want to reach out to my H has really helped. Do that and don't contact her. I've been seperated for maybe 7 weeks now- seen each other briefly twice- and it is by no means easy but my day to day has gotten much better. Hearing how crappy your M was (even though it's not true) and being treated coldly is not good for your ego so stay away and focus on you. Just keep posting on people's threads until you get off moderation. It's very frustrating to be on but you'll learn a lot reading others posts.
This started shortly after we got married the first time... I will explain. My father had cancer for years before we met. We got engaged the summer of 10, dad went into hospital the following january. We knew he wasn't going to make it. She told me not to worry, my dad would see us marry. Long story short, we married on jan 14, dad died later that night. Throughout this entire time, she had been taking a med, that even though wasn't a narcotic, she was addicted. My dads last wish was to make sure we went thru with original date that June. Much more stress in following 6 months. funeral, wedding plans, holidays, birthdays. After the 2nd wedding, she decided to quit taking meds so we could have more children. Couldn't come off cold turkey. Started taking something else which made things worse. After that, withdrawls were terrible, but we made it through it and things started to get better between us. Shortly after, it went down hill and never got better. All signs of depression. Moody, no energy, lack of appetite... i could go on and on.
We never did anything anymore. If I would suggest, she was too tired. Frustrated cause house was mess, but she wouldn't want to clean cause she didn't have the energy to.
On other side, I did push because I wanted to have children. We had talked and that is what I thought we both agreed on. but she wasn't ready yet. She didn't want to change her last name because of her daughter. I was offended with this.
Many other things, and hopefully I can get into these soon.
As time went on, we just kept the viscous circle of fighting and never resolving or compromising.
Just this past April, I found out that she went out on a weekend I was away, and had too much to drink, and stayed with OM. She has been adament that nothing happened and I do believe her, although I do have some doubts.
She just wants to walk away from a marriage that just started, said that she didn't believe in divorce in the beginning, gave me her promise two times, and is willing to basically just forget about me.
She says I don't deserve all this, and I should be allowed to have the family I want and to have children. the thing about it is I do have a family, and even though it has been my dream to have kids, I already have one with "our" daughter. I would rather have my family now, than any other possibilities in the future.
I have read both books. Both were absolutely amazing. I have a coaching session on Tuesday, and I am trying to convince wife to attend a private session with Michele. Problem is I don'[t know if her foot is too far out the door.
Follow these rules- someone posted them on my thread and they really helped me focus on myself.
DB rules
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through lconversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
Aftere wife came off meds, its like she turned into different person. In her words, she said she felt like she wanted to be back in her twenties. I thought that because we had talked so much about what we had wanted out of a marriage and a family, that we were both on same page. She, all of a sudden wanted to wait to have more kids, go out and have the fun she felt she missed for the last several years. In her defense, I wasn't very supportive of many things. I wanted to have more kids, i was offended when she didn't want to change her last name,when she wanted to start spending time doing things kids do in their twenties.
I understand about the rules and not contacting her. I am very much trying, but I feel that she is almost at the point of having both feet out the door. She knows I don't believe in divorce and I won't sign papers. She originally wanted to just have papers drawn up, sign, and be over quickly. When she found that I won't morally sign papers to end my marriage, she says her lawyer won't send papers to me, that I have to get a lawyer for her to send them two. This was over two weeks ago. What is confusing is that she originally wanted just her lawyer to do papers and we would sign so we could save money. Is she stalling
It has been almost 3 months since we separated. She has really never wanted to try to work on things. Said she needed space, which now, I have seen that I didn't give her. Now the reasons she is giving, just don't add up. At first said she needed time to fall back in love, then said she wanted to let me go to find what I wanted, which was to have the family I always wanted. When I told her that is what I do have, she said she shouldn't have said she would marry me, that it was a mistake, and that we are not the right people for each other. I don't understand at all! Things were perfect until the stress of everyday life got in the way. She seemed to let the idea of a true family run her away. It was almost as if she fell out of love for the same reasons she fell in love with me.
Lot of different issues that one of the reasons I feel like she wants a divorce. She just doensn't want the responsibilties of being married. She still sleeps with daughter which is almost 5. She is very close to her family and it seems like she is having a hard time separating the fact that she has a family with me now.
How in the world does someone go from loving you enough to commit her life to you, to wanting a divorce, in less than 12 months? I can't believe you have become an ogre in that time. So your coach will probably tell you not to take any notice of the "I want a D" talk. Have your heard ILYBINILWY talk yet? Don't believe that either. If you can detach, do so. Do not chase her. I know it is hard but it is the only thing that works. Read Divorce Remedy, especially the LRT bit. And work on yourself, become someone only a fool would leave. This can be tough, but there is support here and things WILL get better.
She told me that after the one year point of our first wedding and 6 months after our original wedding. I feel that the meds she was on caused alot of our issues. She has had almost every symptom of being depressed and seems to blame her feelings on our marriage. she has made me completely move out of our home, which she owned before we met. I feel she is relieved to not have a husband that she feels she needs to answer to.
I am at a very difficult place with the next days coming up. I am trying to convince my wife to attend a personal session with Michele under the assumption that I am doing this to move on with my life, when, in reality, I want her to have an awakening and work on and save our marriage. My wife is completely on the fence whether to go or not. She says she doesn't think it is a good idea because making a trip with her will only hurt me more.
My other issues are that I am supposed to consult with a lawyer this week because she told me over three weeks ago that she was having D papers drawn up for me to sign. When I told her that I would not sign anything to signify ending our marriage, she told me her supposed lawyer said there was no sense writing anything up if I wasn't going to sign anyways.
I feel that I am definitely at the LRT stage, and am hoping my DB coach will help tomorrow. I want to make sure to remain close enough to have the personal sessions with Michele still and option, but I don't want to seem too pushy.
She seems relieved when she doesn't have to deal with any of this. Almost out of sight, out of mind!
Other issue is that even though we are very similar financially, I am left with sleeping on couch at my mother's. Basically, the $$ i have put into the mortgage, remodeling projects, and typical house stuff won't be returned until she gets what she wants, that is signing the papers, which I have no idea if she really had drawn up.
I have alot going on this week and am so very hopeful I can get some kind of a break!
Plus I miss my daughter. I haven't seen her in two weeks and when I brought up about if I am ever going to see her again, she said probably not because it would only cause more pain, Mind you, she is my step daughter. This is the first time I have referred to her as that because, in actuality, she is my Daughter!
Just thinking out loud... there is alot of stuff my wife is doing that is contradicting what she says she wants. She says she wants a "quick" divorce but won't file the papers. Says she wants to help me out with the money I have put in the house things, but won't respond to my requests. She will give the rings back, but won't aknowledge when I ask for them. Wants me to find my own place, but when I say it will be a while before I can afford a place, she just ignores the fact that I could if I have the money I have put into our marriage. Is this her guilt with our situation or is she prolonging this in case she changes her mind in the future?
Part of me thinks she never wanted to be married, just liked the idea of it. This is one of the problems I am having with everything. How can someone do this to another human being when they knew how much marriage and family meant to them.
just giving update. Hope moderation ends soon. Havent seen my posts show up.
Wife just called tonite.. I can sense that none of the methods will work. I can feel that she is done. But when we get a chance to talk about everything, i see the little chink in the armor. I don't want to overdo it!
Is there any way to get this back to front page to get some replies. I am going thru a difficult time with trying to get one of wife's feet back in the door, have a session w/ DB coach tonight, consult w/ L tomorrow, and am supposed to talk to wife sometime in near future. I could really use some advice???
Just figured i'd update if anyone is watching...I had a consult with a L today. Only trying to look out for my best interest. Anyways, I walked in with the intention of letting L know how I felt about D, that I was willing to drag my feet as long as possible, and I would give up anything to make sure I at least still have somewhat of a relationship w/ stepdaughter. An hour and half later, I walked away feeling like I had just been run over by a train. L basically said to get out ASAP, that I deserved more, don't sell myself short, and that it was better to find out know rather than later.
I said i respected her as MY attorney, but I still believe in my marriage, that I won't stop fighting for it, and the risk of being too old to have a family of my own if this doesn't work is worth every second if I can make my marriage work. At the very least, I will be able to sleep at night knowing that I did everything possible to make my marriage work. If this is going to end, no one, me included, is going to say that I took the easy way out and gave in to the big D.
Good for you. You know of course the L only gets paid if the D goes through. Only you know when it's time to move on.
I know it is the L's job to help with D, but from the very beginning, L said "she doesn't love you" and "I wish you could move on". You are right! I am the only one that knows when it is time. But, as of right now, I guess my W is willing to wait the 2 years for it to be official.
The L works for you. An L is not an IC. If they are telling you to get out and leave now after you made it clear that you wanted to stand for your M, get a new L.
The L is highly recommended in her profession. If it actually comes down to D, my case would be pretty cut and dry. No matter what anyone says, i will fight for my marriage until there is nothing else I can do. I've made peace with myself that no matter what, it will make me be able to live my life to know that I never gave up... No matter what she does.
Well as long as you know what YOUR priority is, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I walked into my L's office and said "I know you are in the business of divorces, I'm in the business of keeping this marriage together, but I need to know some facts" and that's how the entire meeting went. I felt confident and it was the best money I spent.
If you think it's worth it, then it is. And that's all that matters.
Thanks for your confidence... when the L saw that I wasn't faltering with me decision, did say "i work for You".
I don't ever want to look back and think I didn't do everything I could!
1702 - see my post inside of the comment block. My comments are in red font. Be sure to scroll all the way through for additional comments that are buried within the comment block.
I am at a very difficult place with the next days coming up. I am trying to convince my wife to attend a personal session with Michele under the assumption that I am doing this to move on with my life, when, in reality, I want her to have an awakening and work on and save our marriage. My wife is completely on the fence whether to go or not. She says she doesn't think it is a good idea because making a trip with her will only hurt me more.
Do you see that by "trying to convince..." that you are actually driving her further away? It is great that you "want her to have an awakening" but that will not happen as long as you try to force the issue. So you really need to back off, a lot!!!!
My other issues are that I am supposed to consult with a lawyer this week because she told me over three weeks ago that she was having D papers drawn up for me to sign. When I told her that I would not sign anything to signify ending our marriage, she told me her supposed lawyer said there was no sense writing anything up if I wasn't going to sign anyways.
If you don't want to D then don't do anything to facilitate the process. Sit tight and let your W do all the work. You may find that she is full of bravado and not ready herself to pull the trigger. The gift of time is just that, a gift. And you can buy yourself time by pulling way back and stopping the pursuit.
When my W first dropped the bomb she was ready to accelerate the process because she was "DONE". Yet here I am 8 months later and although I feel like I am in limbo land, I'm not divorced and although we are still estranged, we at least get along considerably better than immediately following the bomb.
I am convinced that had I continued to pursue, we'd be well on our way towards a D. So use this information as a frame of reference for your own sitch.
I feel that I am definitely at the LRT stage, and am hoping my DB coach will help tomorrow. I want to make sure to remain close enough to have the personal sessions with Michele still and option, but I don't want to seem too pushy.
I'm glad you have a sessions scheduled. I'm sure it will go well. Make a list of topics you want to cover and be concise. You have limited time with the coach and it is important that you make efficient use of your time.
She seems relieved when she doesn't have to deal with any of this. Almost out of sight, out of mind!
Evidence ^^^ that she needs space. Stop the pursuit and give her the space she needs. With time, she may settle down some and you will have a chance to work on those all important 180's.
BTW, what 180's are you working on?
Other issue is that even though we are very similar financially, I am left with sleeping on couch at my mother's. Basically, the $$ i have put into the mortgage, remodeling projects, and typical house stuff won't be returned until she gets what she wants, that is signing the papers, which I have no idea if she really had drawn up.
You seem skeptical that your W is actually pursuing legal action. So why not live your life as if she hasn't and that you now have time, time, time to get your ducks in a row, (i.e. work on your changes/180's, get a life for yourself and give your W as much space as she needs, and then some).
I have alot going on this week and am so very hopeful I can get some kind of a break!
Plus I miss my daughter. I haven't seen her in two weeks and when I brought up about if I am ever going to see her again, she said probably not because it would only cause more pain, Mind you, she is my step daughter. This is the first time I have referred to her as that because, in actuality, she is my Daughter!
Why not work on some sort of visitation schedule so that you can have time with your D? Draw up something that you think is fair and present it to your W and see how she reacts. If she is not agreeable, ask her to draw up one herself or make changes. There is nothing wrong with asking. But do so with no expectations attached to the outcome this way you protect yourself emotionally.
You've got a long road ahead of you. If you play your cards right, you just might have a chance but it is important to know that there are no guarantees. So the best thing for you to do is to focus on YOU. Work on your changes and pull way back for your W. Give her plenty of space and get a life.
Keep posting and we'll be here to help you every step of the way.
She is hurting and so she is convincing herself. Right now there's a lot of confusion on both your part. Stop talking to her about the R, don't bring it up, and try with all your heart to stop having expectations. Every single day make a concious effort to redirect your thoughts when you start thinking about her. It will get easier. Don't try to understand, don't snoop on her FB page or try to find out info from friends or family members.
What are you doing to GAL? What are you doing for you? Make yourself your priority.
2, I'll try to respond to everything but I wanted to make sure I get to this asap. My daughter is actually my step daughter. I think of her as my own. But when I asked my W if i was ever going to see her again, she said probably not. There is nothing I can do. It is totally up to her if I get to see SD. In the last couple months when we did have contact, I think my W feels pressured when SD and I are together because the bond she and I have together. And I think it makes her feel even more guilty of what she is doing.
Maybe I missed it somewhere. How long have you been M? How old is your SD?
Married a little over a year
SD is almost 5.
We actually have been married twice to each other.
Got married in hospital before my father died in Jan11
had "big" wedding june11.
ILYBNILWY in dec11
I get that but even though you were "married" twice, it still comes down to how long you've been married. As far as I'm concerned your W has serious mental health issues and removing her D away from you seems pretty cruel.
How long were you dating?
I don't really have much to add at this point, but I was wondering if perhaps your W felt a little pressure to get married before your father passed and is just now processing it?
Okay. What kind of medication was she taking? Do you know the name and what it was for?
After dating for one year it really sounds like you rushed into it and didn't have the conversations that were necessary for a M to work. Things like having kids is a big issue. Did you talk about this before you got married?
How long was your W previously M? Do you know what the reason was for that breakup?
She is the one that suggested it. I have asked numerous times and she said she in no way regrets the decision. Even though that was important to me, I have told her that I would have given that up if in any way started problems. For numerous reasons, I sometimes feel that she only wanted to be married for the idea. The other side still is so confused because of how connected we were for the first six months of our R. Was it all a lie or is she in such a fog from the meds/depression?
She was on Tramadol, then suboxone. Both are nightmares. She was on the first for pain from a car accident, then the other to get off the first. Plus her brother was taking it and she helped him due to money issues.
We were both in our 30's when we met, both have been in R's before that have not been good. We discussed EVERYTHING in the beginning. We felt there was no reason to BS about what we were looking for. She said she fell for me after our 2nd date. Everything we discussed was exactly what each other wanted. I remember our first date talking to each other about how we didn't believe in divorce!
Wife was not married before.
I was introduced to SD after about a month and she and I formed a bond from the first time I saw her. One of my W's biggest issues was that the person that she was going to be with had to love her daughter and daughter had to return that. She and I have an amazing relationship, but I almost feel W resents that someone can love a child that is not there own that much.
When was her last R prior to yours?
I believe it was a few months before we met. The big reason it ended was that he didn't want to have any more children. Now she is telling me that, not that she didn't want more children, but D will not have any more siblings.
Might I add that she has severe seperation issues with D. She still sleeps with her, D never has had a bed time, and there is very little discipline. She even admitted that D listened better to me. All these have been major issues with us. I wanted a M that was important and she felt more inclined to make sure D didn't feel resented by me being in the picture.
This all started shortly before we married. She wanted to "wait" to have D sleep in own bed so she didn't feel like I was taking her place. when that day came for her to sleep in own bed, My W just changed what her bed was. There weren't too many mornings that I woke up that she wasn't in bed with D.
How long was she with her ex?
the R just before me only lasted a couple months if im not mistaken.
SD's father was just a "friend" that they made a mistake. It lasted during her pregnancy and close to year after.
She originally bought her home with another M that lasted around same amount of time. She caught him cheating.
She has walked away from R's in the past. She even admits that she is this way. When she feels pressure, she runs away.
I really feel that if I do the LRT and say make a choice, then she will just be done. If I go dark with NC, it will be "out of sight, out of mind"
I do feel that when I kind of chase(i know,not DB principles) that, if done strategically, she shows some chinks in the armor.
this, along with many other things, makes me sooooo confused.
So, how did your coaching session go?
Without getting into talking about having kids, what did you and W have in common? What did she like about you? What drew you to her, other than wanting children?
My heart goes out to both of you. I know from personal experience what medication can do when you are given certain types and then suddenly taken off or replaced by another kind. It will mess you up mentally and physically.
I'm not suggesting that you get a D, but if she's saying she doesn't want more children, you need to back off pressing her about how you thought you had an agreement. It doesn't sound like she is in any shape to have more kids right now. It could push her to do something both of you would regret....either to herself, or the children.
As for your R with SD, your W might be a little jealous of her D being crazy about another person beside her mother! If it has just been the two of them, it could stand to reason. Again, you need to back off asking her if you'll ever get to see SD again. Don't ask those type of questions. It would be better to say, "I'd love to see SD". Leave it at that.
Don't beg & plead. Don't try to make her feel guilty. I think you are trying to do that when you "remind" her of the agreements before M. Never have a R with anyone you have to pressure, bribe, or guilt.
Sandi,
Coaching session went ok. I seemed to do more of the talking. Everything coach says, I know. Take the little things as positive!
I have definitely quit talking about more children and R issues. I'd rather have the family I had, than just a chance to have more children and not have W and SD in it.
For time being, i have only been asking if I could take her to dinner or out for ice cream. I haven't gotten much of a response at all.
Then back off of the requests. Did you ever think that maybe you were the rebound R? I think your W isn't used to having someone permanently there and someone who is so close to her D just like sandi said.
If possible, stay in touch with your D. It seems like you were the only stable male figure in her life. Try not to lose that if possible.
I'm sorry Sandi, I never answered your first set of questions.
She and I both had the same set of family values. We both liked to be "homebodies". We truly enjoyed each other's company.
She loved that I was a family man. i was a hard worker and I would have done anything for them. She loved that I helped with everything, including the things she felt were her responsibility. (cooking, cleaning, laundry)
She liked that I was basically a man's man. Fixing things, hard worker, but I still had the side to take care of my family. That I took care of my parents. That I just wanted to be with her and D. That family was very important to me.
I remember fixing a flat tire for her on our second date and that was the day she said she fell for me.
After meds, it was almost like she fell out of love with me for the same reasons she fell in love with me.
Please believe me that all the reasons she fell in love with me, never stopped throughout our marriage. I always looked after her and D's needs first. The only thing that was different was the fact that I had opinions about things after we married, and when they weren't what she wanted, she felt her thoughts were always more important. She even, just the other night, blamed me solely for the breakdown of our marriage. Her words were that I didn't compromise, and when I did, it shouldn't have been a big deal in the first place.
the requests stopped a while ago. I admit! I shouldn't have pushed for more kids when she wasn't ready.
Rebound from what??? What we had was more of a R that she has had before. Both only M's for both. Even though it is obvious that vows weren't as important to her than me, I firmly believe in marriage and the vows I gave her. I will not give up on my marriage until IT IS OVER!
Are you saying that I should follow what L said and let her go and go through with D?
After consult with L, I really don't have much to say about Daughter. If she doesn't want me to see her, I can't do anything to change that. There is the possibility that I won't see her again if W doesn't want that.
With the fact that D goes from W, to father, to grandparents and back again on weekly basis, I would not want to confuse her more, so I am only going to take what I get with the hopes that I would still have somewhat of a role in her life. I will contribute money each month(what I feel like child support would be) into a fund that D could get WHEN she graduates college, still send Bday and holiday gifts, and make sure she knows how much I will always love her!
That you were a rebound relationship from the one that she had just gotten out of.
"What we had was more of a R that she has had before."
First thing you have to do is to stop using the thinking of "we". This is your perception. And even though she might have said something before, she might have said it to just agree with you.
Let's face it, if things were as wonderful as you explain they were, you wouldn't be here.
"Even though it is obvious that vows weren't as important to her than me,"
Again you're mindreading. It could be that something happened that altered her perception. You need to take your emotions out of this for a little while and see things objectively. As if your W were someone whom you just met and want to date.
What are her strengths and weaknesses? What were the things that she found attractive in you and in other men?
Don't mean to sound defensive, but even after the last several months, counselors and therapists, family and friends, and even God, I still cannot figure out what happened. Not one thing other that the usual, typical everyday life. I'm not sure if you saw or not, but she had issues with script drugs. and when she stopped(so we could start thinking about more kids), she changed, completely. I feel she got very depressed and saw only the negatives with us.
She fell in love with me because I was a family man, that I helped her with everything, that I loved D like she was my own, and just loved being with them. But afer depression started, she only wanted to be with her D and basically resented me. It was almost like she hated that I was still beside her even when she didn't treat me well. I know it sounds like i am playing the "hero" role, but I'm really not. Other that just fighting to keep our marriage alive the entire time, nothing ever happened that should make her feel otherwise. She either lied to me about how she felt and what she wanted, or the depression caused her to change.
Which I feel could be fixed and our M could possibly be fixed it it was given a chance.
I'm doing my best to give space and detach from the situation. I just pray for a chance for me to "meet her for first time and chance for her to fall back in love with me"
Wish she would watch new movie "the vow".
"I still cannot figure out what happened."
Thatʻs something that only she knows or may not know herself.
"Not one thing other that the usual, typical everyday life. I'm not sure if you saw or not, but she had issues with script drugs."
Yes how could I miss it? Thatʻs all youʻve talked about. I wanted to know if there was anything else that was an issue. You mentioned the kids, etc.
"and when she stopped(so we could start thinking about more kids), she changed, completely. I feel she got very depressed and saw only the negatives with us."
Got news for you. ALL WASʻs do that whether theyʻre on drugs or not.
"Other that just fighting to keep our marriage alive the entire time, nothing ever happened that should make her feel otherwise."
Again, thatʻs your opinion
"She either lied to me about how she felt and what she wanted, or the depression caused her to change."
You really have to stop mentioning the "lying" part. If she really was, she would have left sooner. Fact is that only she knows why sheʻs doing what sheʻs doing.
Have you talked to her doctor about potential behavioral side effects?
I may not have time to finish posting this morning, but there is something I'd like to ask you. Why was it your father's dying wish to see you M? If he died the night the two of you were M in front of him....he must have had a very strong reason for wanting to see that happen. Was it your duty or promise, in some way, to carry on the family name? Were you trying to assure him there would be grandchildren? Hope I'm not offensive, but was there a trust fund involved?
"She liked that I was basically a man's man. Fixing things, hard worker, but I still had the side to take care of my family. That I took care of my parents. That I just wanted to be with her and D. That family was very important to me."
She was a single mom looking for a man's man who would provide a stable home for her and her D. You seemed to be everything she needed. You, on the otherhand, were looking for a woman who would fit the design you drawn up in your mind. You wanted a W who would have your children, and who would be happy being a W and mother and making a home for you. So, both of you were looking for each other (in a way of speaking). You both sort of checked each other out to see what was what, and then proceded to get M.
I'll have to finish my post later. Hope you have time to answer my questions.
Sandi,
My father was so relieved that we, as a family, accepted what was going to happen. I can tell the entire story at a later point, but he wanted to make sure he was there to share that special day with us because he knew he wouldn't be there for the wedding in June.
When my W and I met, we both had had our share of bad R's that didn't work. It had been almost 2 yrs that I wasn't in a R. I dated a few times, but there really wasn't a connection. W basically the same thing. When we met through a mutual friend, we spent a considerable amount of time talking before our first date. We were both in our 30s and knew what we wanted out of a R. Those first few weeks, we didn't hold anything back about expectations. In her words, we weren't going to waste each other's time with the "courting" period because of our age and life experiences.
When she suggested we marry in the hospital, that was the greatest gift anybody could have ever given me. We wanted to give my dad the gift of sharing our vows with each other and we also wanted to make sure our entire families were able to see us marry. He was very adamant that we still went through with the planned wedding.
There was never any promise to carry on the family name or have grandchildren. It was important to me to have kids and give my parents grandchildren, but in no way was that a driving factor. My parents had already considered SD as their grandchild.
There was no trust fund or anything like that. My W and D were gifts sent from God that they came into my life when they did.
Things between us were basically bliss until we were married. It was almost as if being married and the responsibilities of it "smacked her in the face". Instead of just making decisions for her and D, now her H was in the picture.
I hope I was able to answer what you wanted and I look forward to hearing from you later.
Who is the OM that she's going out with?
That could be a possibility that I hope isn't true...Even though you are saying what the possibilities are, you really have no compassion in your words. It really isn't appreciated with your sarcasm. Sounds to me you went through alot and still have a lot of resentment. Either way my situation goes, I will never put someone else farther down than they already are. I appreciate your thoughts, but if they are going to be this harsh, I don't need them anymore.
hey 1702, you posted on my thread ages ago and said you'd like to talk to me...just jumping in to sort of "defend" Bond. A few nights ago I was practically having a breakdown...my phone could have easily drowned in my tears. My point is during the hurt and pain I was in I read Bond's comments as attacking me. He's honestly not. I reread them the next day and wasn't the least bit hurt.
Everything he's saying is true. I typed up a massive thing on Crazyville's thread about being a WAW and how I felt when I going thru my decision to leave. it's on page 11 of her thread something about a one way street.
Right now you are doing a lot of mind reading, you're trying to make sense of why she feels the way she feels and what made her change her mind, especially after two weddings at her insistence etc....please stop doing that. For your own sanity. You will never figure it out because I doubt she even knows or could explain it. and it hurts her to think about it too! it will drive you crazy. This why they say "believe none of what they say and half of what they say" Did you read my thread where my H told me he's moving in with GF but I'm prettier and more fun? Yeah, it's all conflicting because they're confused!
Here's what you can do read as many books recommended here you can find: How to Improve Your Relationship without talking about it, the Five Languages of Love, Divorce Remedy, Codependent No More, The Mastery of Love. Detach and give her space. For you own sanity and emotional stability and happiness don't pursue, don't chase, try to accept what is happening right now, and work on improving yourself so that you can be a better you no matter the outcome.
Brit, Thanks for responding. I have been going through this for several months and nothing seems to be working on making me feel better. That comment from Bond almost made me pick up the phone to get some sort of confirmation. I didn't, but now, it is running through my head. I know she is confused and there is alot of guilt going through her. It has been evident with her wanting me to move all my stuff out because she "hurts every morning she had to wake up and see it" and that my requests to see or spend time with SD go unanswered.
After talking to L yesterday, I could try to get visitation, but that would force me to file, and the last thing I want is a D. and if I wait for a couple months, legally, I have no footing to ask for time with my daughter. It could only come if W says so.
I have read half those books. i might have to order the others.
I guess I have accepted that this is happening, but I cannot get past the hurt and anger that someone could do this to another human being when she knew how important marriage and family were to me. I guess I should explain....
Marriage to me is a very sacred thing. She and I both talked in the beginning that if two people fall in love and marry, that nothing could break that apart. That nothing can come between that. I know she feels guilty because she has always know that I want children.. and she felt that she couldn't give that to me before it was too late and we were too old. The point that I wish I could get across to here is that I have a child and if we didn't have more kids, I would be fine with that because I already have a family.
The anger comes from within me. I know that. I feel that she is stealing something from me. The piece of my heart that I gave to her when we committed to each other. At some point, there may be another in my life, but how fair would it be to that person to be in a R with someone that will always love someone else. I don't think that is right. I know it is my decision and my belief, but I feel like if she would have been honest with me, not only the first time, but even the second, we could have dealt with it then.
All I can say is I know. We feel/felt that way too. We have all had our dreams and hopes for the future crushed. We all felt betrayed, tricked, lied to, disappointed, everything you're feeling.
I had to decide that I wallowing in those feelings weren't going to help me heal. Accept that you may never get answers. Accept that you were partly to blame....it can never be one sided. Decide how you want to grow from this situation. Do you want this to make you a stronger person who understands how to be a partner or will you let this turn you into a bitter angry person who hates women?
Everyone here wants to help you move forward
Brit,
I know that in the future I'll move on with my life, and be happy again... But one thing is definite. And it isn't about hating women. the trust issue is gone and won't ever be able to return.
you are right, it does take two. but when I cannot figure out what I did and am being blamed for the entire breakdown of our M, how can one move forward. when I am getting blamed for trying to "fix" the things that she said were wrong in the first place. When someone says we don't have fun and do anything together, then rejects any offer to do anything, could make anyone very confused.
I am bitter, extremely bitter. And I don't think it will ever completely go away.
I know I may not have been the picture perfect H, but I am the same person she fell in love with, and then some. If there was OM or she just didn't love me anymore because of her, it would be easier to take than for her to blame me for the breakdown just so she won't have the guilt of her being the reason. the reason she crushed my dreams of marriage and family, her being the reason I am broken, and her being the reason I won't have the R with SD that is so special.
1702, you stated your objection so gently - you must be a very controlled, thoughtful, and reasonable person. I admire that. A lot of people come on here with reactivity being one of the problems in their marriage, and demonstrating it here and missing out on potential help.
What was likely meant is not to put you farther down but to help you clarify your situation. A lot of people come here believing their spouse went inexplicably crazy, and there turns out to be another person they're having an emotional or physical affair with. Does it help you to know it before you're ready to face it? no. Does it help you to imagine it if it's not necessarily correct? Maybe.
A lot of times it takes a long while for newcomers to realize exactly where they are and exactly what they can do about it, and it takes some painful comments and questions to get them there. What you need to learn is that you cannot control your W's actions, thoughts, or opinions. You absolutely can expect some things that happen to all of us - talking from the 'script', WAS making us out to be the bad guy, acting like nothing in our relationship was ever good - it's very helpful to realize you're part of a large community that's been there and done that.
What you need to learn is that you only control you and your best chance - no matter the outcome with your W - is to dig deep into yourself and become happier, more full of life, more interested and interesting, more completely OK with yourself. The hardest and most uncomfortable questions here are the ones most likely to help you do that.
Finally, the other posters here are human and have opinions right and wrong, and they have cranky days, and they sometimes see nails simply because they are hammers. Take what helps you and work on not being offended by the comments that 'smart.'
adinva,
Thank you for this. I know i am here for a reason, maybe i'm just looking for the wrong reasons.
funny thing is that my W feels totally opposite about being a very controlled, thoughtful, and reasonable person. I know for a fact that she and I are both very stubborn people, but when it comes down to it, I have been beaten down for some time about the reasons for problems in our M.
i know I cannot do anything about W's actions. But sometimes I feel that the DB principles wouldn't exactly help my specific situation. As I have said in the past, NC or going dark will only make her see "out of sight, out of mind" She doesn't want to feel the guilt of what she has done.
As of 945 this evening, I will not have had any contact in 24 hrs. The last was a text, and even though some may not think it was the right thing to do, I needed to make her know "what she is doing" saying that "what the heck are you doing? what you have, and what your are willing to lose by not trying."
I know it isn't DBing, but it is a 180 for me from what W thinks. She feels that I have been a weak, sniviling man the last couple months. that I should just be able to move on, that it was "only 2 years out of our lives" and we will get over it.
Marriage was a commitment for life for me and when she betrayed me, I've lost total everything in my life.
Jounaling a little
As of now, it is a little over 24 hrs since I have had any contact with W. In the last few months, we haven't gone more that a day w/o communicating. Very difficult. Even though all this time has passed, I still miss each and everything about the R.
Last communication was a text which I basically called her out for what she is doing with running away, what she has to lose.
I know it isn't what is recommended, but alot of the things that are recommended do nothing.
What i truly feel would work the best and get the most results would be to either file for D myself or tell her to get papers ready and I'll sign. She knows without a doubt, that I refuse to sign papers and she knows that this is going to be a long process to get D.
More than anything, I want my wife to be happy. As hard as it is to say, even if it is without me. I feel torn between why I am feeling the way I do about everything. I am fighting for my marriage because I don't want to look back and think I didn't do everything I could to save it, but on the other hand, am I saying I am not going to sign papers out of spite????
And there is the thought that some of W's decisions are coming from the mental issues I feel she has...
1702- I don't know if u read the response I posted to your comment on my sitch but u should. I stand by u needing to slow down, take a deep breath, and think, don't rush into any decisions right now. That probably wouldn't go well. Also, give her space, because trying to interact isn't working. Trust me I know it's hard, but it must be done.
I'm sorry. I read your response when I was real busy earlier and I never got back.
I will definitely not rush into any decisions. Bottom line, I don't believe in divorce and it will come down to the 2 years for this to be over if that is what she decides.
I keep going back and forth between anger, betrayal, devestation, and flat out disbelief that all this is happening.
Sometimes it seems that she is perfectly fine with this taking so long because she know I'll be here if she decides in the future this is what she wants. And she fully knows I would take her back with out blinking an eye.
No need to apologize. I'm glad to hear you aren't going to rush any decisions. I don't want a divorce either, I understand they happen, and in some cases need to, but I took my vows very seriously as they should be. I too feel that my spouse will be waiting the 2 years if they decide to pursue that option.
1702 you are going to have many many moods and feelings and sometimes all at once..... it's not fun.... especially the crying, screaming mess on the floor days.... but each time you will be a little bit stronger..... until eventually the anxiety leaves and is replaced with some indifference and hope that one day soon they will extract their heads from their asses. lol
I don't remember if you said or not, but are you going to counseling? If not, you should. I really like the counselor I found. He's wonderful at putting things in perspective, yet understands that I don't want a divorce, yet keeps me in check about it still could happen even though I do everything I can to fix the marriage. Which I know, but at least I'm not going down without doing everything I am able to do to help salvage this marriage.
Keep your hope, take time for you (it is very important, and something I didn't quite understand at first), give her space and vent here..... like I said before there are some really good, knowledgeable people here, and everyone means well.
oh 1702 I'm so sorry you feel this way. Because I've felt it too. If I had a time machine I whoosh you straight into the time where you'll feel more confident about being detached.
I, too, have an H that I saw/see as being weak. And a text like that would push me away. It would make me guilty. And you don't fall in love with someone when you have a sense of guilt attached to them or when you feel responsible for their hurt and pain. I can't tell you enough and I'm sure everyone here will agree that confidence, independence, detachment is sexy and attractive.
Good job on the 24 hours. Take each day as it comes and try your hardest to not pursue her. Go back to the 37 rules read those everyday if you need to.
No, I am not going to counseling. When our situation started, she suggested we go to MC. After a day of being skeptical, I agree, but she started to then question going. I started immediately by myself and she even noticed changes and and was even somewhat excited to start going herself. We had one session together, then she quit saying her heart wasn't in it.
I have not continue any IC for myself. It might help but for the last several months and the massive amount of people that I have spoken to, other than this forum with strangers, I cant keep discussing my situation, keep reliving the pain, without ever getting answers.
Some thoughts as I am reading some of these posts...
As I'm reading about some of the situations of people on here, I am still at a loss regarding my situation. There are people on here that are fighting for custody and how to divide different things.
When I met my W, I had lived in a small apartment that I rented. I guess I never got around to buying a house because I wanted to buy a house with my spouse. When I met my wife, she had already owned a house that eventually I moved in with her. When she asked me to move, I had no other choice to move in my my mom because at first, this was to give her space. Now, with the sitch being how it is, I know i need to look for my own place. Problem is the money issue. I have a good job, but it is going to take some time to save up enough for a downpayment. When I left my apartment, I basically got rid of everything other than a few things we used at my "new" home. After talking to L, and even though I am firm with waiting the 2 years for this to happen, I basically won't get much from W for my contributions to "her" house. I paid for so much from day 1 when I moved in with her. L said that the courts won't see it as what you contributed, they will see that you would have to pay for a place to live anyways.
Basically, the half that I have paid for the last 18 months, I would only get a fraction of that, not to mention the other stuff that I bought, including appliances and mowers, remodeling projects.
For god sakes, I am still paying for her engagement ring.
I really don't want to sound like this is about money for me. I would give up everything to have an honest chance to save our marriage, but how can someone move forward when they are getting the shaft?
Even though I couldn't, I would never even think of making my W and SD's life difficult, trying to take things away from them to make their life more difficult. But when my W asks me, "have you been looking for a place yet", how do you respond to that? "it will be a while before I can afford that" or just "not yet"
"But when my W asks me, "have you been looking for a place yet", how do you respond to that?"
What is her purpose for asking?
She knows how much this is hurting me and she feels that getting my own place will help. I honestly think it will make her feel less guilty of our whole situation.
I have only responded with "It will be a little while before I am able to do that?
Here's one thing you have to understand. If I didn't have compassion for your sitch I wouldn't be responding. But do you come here to get a pat on the back to your story or are you looking for answers?
What you're going to have to realize is that sometimes the answers you seek aren't the ones you want to hear. The fastest way to get through this is to face the worst case scenario and then come up with a strategy on how to potentially avoid it.
IC isn't meant for you to dredge up your feelings. It's to try and understand why you're feeling the way you do and how they can help your sitch. Your W doesn't care about you right now. It's sad but that's the reality. I can tell you're full of anger and fear. That's fine. Let it all out. We've all been there. But blaming your W, saying she lied to you, etc. isn't going to help.
"I know it isn't what is recommended, but alot of the things that are recommended do nothing."
You want immediate turnaround. That isn't going to happen. Divorcing you isn't a decision your W just came up with. It probably had a lot to do with her past and you probably triggered alot of trauma. You have to step back and look at things objectively and give it time and patience. That's what it will take.
"Sometimes it seems that she is perfectly fine with this taking so long because she know I'll be here if she decides in the future this is what she wants. And she fully knows I would take her back with out blinking an eye."
All this is mindreading. You don't know what she's really thinking, so stop. The more you mindread, the crazier you'll get because you'll end up analyzing everything she says and does.
I am looking for answers... Probably ones that I will never get. Trust me, I have played all the scenarios out in my head more that once and I am not ignorant of the possibility of each and every one of them.
As I am sitting here with tears rolling down my face, I still have no idea how somebody that committed their life to you, that promised to be beside you forever, could destroy your life???
I know that I will move on with my life, one way or another. I know that I will be able to laugh and smile again. I know that I will be able to enjoy life again. But I will never be able to heal from what she has done.
I gave my "heart" away when I asked her to marry me. I gave everything I had to her. And to think everyday that it is gone and never will be back, is crushing to say the least.
I am fully aware that this happens everyday and people move on with their lives. I know that most people can find their "soulmate" elsewhere, but the vows I took were forever. This is something that I already accepted, but the anger feels like it grows stronger everyday.
Bond, I am sorry if I seemed obtuse, but I don't feel like anything will make this go away.
"As I am sitting here with tears rolling down my face, I still have no idea how somebody that committed their life to you, that promised to be beside you forever, could destroy your life???"
maybe your W feels this same way?
How could someone feel the same way when they are the one that wanted out? She has actually admitted that she doesn't want the responsibilities of being married. She wants to be able to make all decisions and not have to worry what Her H would think. She is relieved that she doesn't have to worry about what I think about anything. she is able to live her life and not have to feel that she has to make a M work.
Because when you are the one that ended it you were so unhappy that the act of ending it gave you some relief.
Part of detaching is to stop mind reading. This is so important for you to get a grip on these thoughts and feelings that are doing nothing but hurting you.
why was it hard for her to be able to make decisions when she was with you? were you critical of her decisions? did the two of you want different things?
that's what it sounds like. she's telling you something. take time to think about how she got to this place.
I've learned to cope, because one simply has to.
This story may or may not help you.
Some time ago, my XW made some life choices, which caused me great pain and anguish.
But this was not her intent. It was not about me.
She was trying, in a way, to escape her own pain and anguish.
I have to accept that although she knew the consequences to me, it was something she just had to do.
Any damage to me was, for lack of a better term, "collateral damage."
Can you see how a WAS may not be hell bent on inflicting pain on you?
We as LBS'ers have to move "ourselves" forward from the mess for our own good.
God Speed.
Pic.
relief from what??? Having a Husband? having a family?
I know I am bitter, and I know that people say that they did nothing to cause the breakdown of M, but i can honestly say the big reasons for the breakdown of our M came from her end.
I will give you examples...
My W still sleeps with SD. She is almost 5.
No bed time for SD. They are up til after I went to bed.
W had problem with dual parenting roles. She only wanted me to be a dad when she felt is was necessary.
W had problems seperating our family as W and H, with the relationship she has with her family. She is more concerned with what is happening with her family than with us.
Even though she said spending time together was important for a M, she would never want to do anything, just the two of us.
As many dishes that i did, laundry that was washed and folded, bathrooms scrubed, and so on, I wasn't helping do what she needed. But if I tried to help with the things that "bothered" her, she would get frustrated that nothing else was getting done.. I could go on and on. Bottom line, she thought she wanted to be married, but she found out that she doesn't want someone in her life to that extent. She lied and destroyed another persons life in the process.
I am detaching... in a couple hours, it will be 48 hours of NC. Very hard because all I am thinking about is what she is doing, are they all right, and "when is she going to wake up"
I am sure they are ok and im not blind to realize that she may never see it the same way I do. But it still doesn't make the pain go away!
She didn't have a hard time making decisons. All I wanted with our M was to feel important. That all her decisons weren't only about her, D, her family, and her friends.
One of the reasons I fell in love with her was because we were so much alike. We loved spending time together, wanted the same things, were very family oriented, and were both well aware of where our futures were headed. After she stopped the meds, i feel that depression kicked in and turned her into a different person.. the more this became an issue, the more problems we had.
You are right about one thing you are bitter.
When the bitterness and anger calms down perhaps you may be able to see things more clearly, have more empathy. There is no point in wanting our M to work if we're saying we don't have to do any of the work, it's all their problems to fix. I'm not saying that she diesn't have things to work on but right now in your pain you can't see the problems you two have objectively.
Work on detaching, keep up the NC these are all things to reduce the torture your mind is putting you through. Take care of yourself. Do things for you. What are you doing to GAL?
I do fully understand I have a lot to work on... And I have changed in the last few months when realizing these things. This situation has changed my life!
I guess my GAL is basically none right now. I still have a hard enough time going to work. After these few months, I still have problems walking out of the house and seeing other people. All I think about is how embarrassed I am that I couldn't make my M work.
I would suggest you read that book codependent no more. Its really helpful. Also when I was at that point (barely able to go to work) IC really helped.
Thanks for the suggestion, I will try to get that ASAP. I have been reading alot lately.
As far as counseling... I am not sure. I know it takes time, but I am struggling each day to just wake up and my W views our whole situation as just a bad R that is no big deal to end. It's almost like she views it as if she was never married or that ending a M is no big deal. Just move on.???
From what you've said, it sounds like she felt torn between you and her D and family. It sounds like you may have asked her (directly or indirectly) to choose between you and them.
Now she can see her family and do whatever she wants with and for her D and not have to feel your anger or disappointment.
It's very, very hard to "blend" families.
Why are you not sure about counseling? What followed that statement sounded like a good case for getting yourself some help dealing with this.
Never, ever would I would even consider wanting her to want for it to ever come to that. I fell in love with her because family was an important thing to both of us. All I wanted was for her to recognise that we were now a family. I just wanted her to treat me like i was family now.
Problem with this is I can answer that question, but nobody understands this. She thought she wanted to be married. But when it came down to it, she didn't want to let anybody that far into her life. That is what I am having a problem with. Why would she do this when she knew how devestating it would be when she got too close? Her friends and family have told me that this is how she is. When things get too close, she runs. The only way to get answers is from her.
All of this has come after the fact.
You might have misunderstood my question. You sound like counseling would really help you. IC, not MC. For you.
When that was suggested, you brushed it off: "As far as counseling...I am not sure."
Why?
I guess I am maybe just being difficult... IC, in my opinion, would probably make me even more angry. Even after months of this, I am still at a loss for words of Why! And I don't know if someone telling me it could be this or that is going to make me understand things any clearer than I already do. Just my opinion though.
I did have a few sessions with a counselor a while ago, but she seemed to only make me feel worse.
She told you why. She doesn't want to live with your disapproval of her decisions. You said it, in so many words. You disapprove of her sleeping with her D. You disapprove of the lack of bed time she sets for her daughter. I suspect you've also criticized her about time and energy spent on her "family".
Read your own words.
What spouse wants to live by themselves within a marriage? How would someone feel if months would go by without being intimate with their spouse? How should someone feel if their spouse made sure others had dinner, but had other things to do when they weren't around? How should someone feel when they would rather spend the night at their parents with D that come home to their spouse?
I truly see where you are going with this. I do. But there are so many things that are not healthy for a M that, even though I was willing to work on, it was either her way or no way.
You are right. I have definitely criticized her for some of these things. But how can a M work when these things are common. They say that the number one thing that breaks down a marriage is communication. All I was fighting for was to spend more time with my wife so this wouldn't happen. But I got beaten down for wanting more time with my W.
The way I looked at it.... I hated the fact that I spent more time with people I work with than my family.
guess i'm just speaking my mind before I go to sleep.
It has been 51 hours since I have had any contact with W. Not ideal for a holiday wknd.
I just deceided I am going to make appt. to get another tatoo.
You must have felt lonely and abandoned. Adinva suggested counseling. It's not our feeling that get us into trouble. It's our reactions; how we communicate our feelings.
Please listen to what the wise people (not me) on here try to tell you. Sometimes our first reaction is to defend ourselves but that will only keep us closed off to a better understanding.
No one on here really knows who you are. You have complete anonymity. You can look deeply into yourself without judgement here. You can be totally honest and will not suffer for it. In fact, the more honest you are, the better you will become because others will be better able to guide and help you.
SS, You are right about being honest. I truly feel that I am being honest about the whole sitch. As each scenario is explained, others are always looking at the other side of what I might have done to make her feel the way she did. Problem is, I am the same person and did the same things that made her fall in love with me in the first place. Something changed in her. Maybe the meds, maybe the depression, I don't know. But to get blamed for the breakdown of our M, is a kick in the you know what! All I have wanted is to discuss what happened with her, and her have an open mind, not blaming me the whole time.
Our one and only MC, she hammered me for what caused her to get to this point, but the little we talked about it later, she would not see what I was doing to save the M. ie, spending more time together, communicating, having time to ourselves to have fun...
It is always a possibility, but everything got bad after coming off the meds she was on. She only saw things in a negative light when, what i feel, she was going through depression. Not one thing made her feel good. The more I fought to make M better, the more she fell back. When I backed away, I wasn't doing anything to fix things. How can someone "win" in the position?
There is no fighting for your marriage.
You want to make her see things your way, you want her to understand but only if it agrees with your understanding.
That's all control.
Do you want to force her back or do you want her to come back of her won free will, because she loves you?
It's not throwing in the towel to work on you, to change those things you know you need to change.
And she may see you as the better choice.
Or she may not but either way, you have no control over her choices.
She may be depressed but there is nothing you can do about that.
Let it go, she gets to make those choices and you pointing out that you see there is something "wrong" with her will only make her angry.
You know, I know there is nothing I can do to make her feel one way or another! But to be the the scapegoat, the one that she can push all the blame on makes me very resentful. I know i am not perfect. I have admitted my shortcomings. And I have worked hard to fix these. But she ran away without even a chance.
If this is the way it ends, there is a wound that will never heal! And as much a I love her, If things don't work, I cannot forgive her for what she stole from me.
You can only be the scapegoat if you agree with her.
You have a lot of anger. What are you really angry about?
A marriage breakup is never all one person't fault. Accept what is yours and move on.
What would heal your wound? Really think on that.
I'm angry that she lied to me. That over 2 years is now gone and nothing can bring that back. We had talked about how "are clocks are ticking" and that we shouldn't BS each other about our wants and needs and expectations. And now, after two years, all the things I ever dreamed of are gone and might never have them unless a miracle happens.
I know it is my choice and my decision, but my dreams of having a family and children of my own are gone. There truly is nothing that would heal this wound. And I feel the only way for it to scar over is for her to come back and realize her role in what happened.
It's frustrating for me to comment on your sitch because I feel like you're so angry and hurt you're not really going to hear anything...if that makes sense.
Love true love forgives and accepts and supports even when the person isn't doing what you want them to do.
You can't change how she feels, what she thinks or what she wants to do. It's a very very very hard thing to accept. The only thing you can change is how you feel about the sitch. Being angry isn't going to mend any fences. It's fine to see that there are things in the M that didn't work but it sounds like you're giving her all the blame and taking no responsibility. And on top of that you want her to take away all your hurt by apologizing to you and working to get your forgiveness.
What are you doing to work through your anger, bitterness, and resentment?
What are you doing to GAL?
You feel what you do because of the thoughts that you think. You can change your thoughts and thus how you feel. It depends on whether you want to be bitter and angry for the rest of your life. You have more control over that than you think.
You never had any guarantees in the first place.
I know it is my choice and my decision, but my dreams of having a family and children of my own are gone.
Why? How old are you?
There truly is nothing that would heal this wound. And I feel the only way for it to scar over is for her to come back and realize her role in what happened.
So you're turning your life over to her?
She is in charge of the rest of it whether you are married or not?
You are playing the victim and turning your life over to someone else only allows that to continue. You aren't responsible for anything because everything is her fault.
Is that how you want to live?
your comments do make perfect sense! I have taken blame for the things I have done. What I am having a very hard time getting over is how she changed from the beginning to now. How can you tell someone everything you want, which was the same as me, to now not wanting any of that???
You can't help who you fall in love with! And I will always feel that way about her. But if she was honest with me in the beginning, we would never have gotten to this point. And the worst part of this she let me into her D's life like a father and took it away as if it meant nothing.
We are both 34. When we married, I committed my everything to her. For me to move on, find another, and have a family, there would always be a lie there. To me, to tell someone else they are the most important thing in your life, that you want to have their children, is one of the most special gifts you can give another. How is it fair to tell someone else that when there is a piece of you that would give anything to have it with someone else?
I could never do that to someone else!
bug is right 1702, you are choosing to be the victim. The sooner you drop that, the sooner you'll start to make progress.
I thought M was supposed to be forever. The vows you give each other are prime examples of that and I didn't take those lightly.
maybe she was honest with you "in the beginning"? maybe she changed her mind about her life with you and how she felt about you as a person? people do change their minds about how they want to live and what they want for themselves.
a good M allows both people to change and allows for growth. maybe she didn't think she had that freedom with you?
also, i don't think there are too many wounds that never heal. there may be a scar but they heal. and the scars are lessons. what you could be doing is looking at your sitch as a lesson and a blessing. how can you turn this into something positive??
it's up to you, not her.
As much as I thought gettin my feelings out, it has only made things worse for me. I may never get the answers I was looking for. People on here say to detach and give the spouse what they want.... space and time. But should you deny them what they want if they are asking for a D just because you want to fight for your M.
there are so many contridictions about what you should do.
I do admit, she probably felt that she didn't have the freedom to do everything she wanted. But she brought alot of that on herself. How can someone want to be M and still live like they are single?
i think the responses you've been getting are pretty much in agreement here. you have NO CHOICE when it comes to denying her what she wants anymore. it's her choice and i don't think you are getting it. you have no more power over her and if you continue to show anger towards her and try to blame her and deny her what she wants, she will pull further and further away.
you continue to fight. "she brought alot of that on herself". blaming.
"...deny them what they want", controlling.
"getting my feelings out", blaming.
"has only made things worse for me", very true...that's what we're trying to tell you.
So what i am hearing you say is that if someone is asking for a D, then give it to them without fighting for your M because it is what they want. If not, you are controlling them about making decisions.
i don't know how you can stop her from divorcing you. do you? also, fighting for your marriage does not mean fighting, arguing, blaming, or controling. have you read the DB & DR books?
you cannot make decisions for her, only yourself. you are either going to show her someone who fights, argues, and blames or someone else who is kind, self confident, wants her to have the space she's asking for, etc.
which will it be?
also, fighting for your marriage does not mean fighting, arguing, blaming, or controling. have you read the DB & DR books?
YEP!
We're all telling you to "fight for your marriage" in a different way.
So what i am hearing you say is that if someone is asking for a D, then give it to them without fighting for your M because it is what they want. If not, you are controlling them about making decisions.
I think it would be very good for you to learn about boundaries. This statement shows you handle the natural differences between between as a tug of war. Either she wins or you win. You are not fighting *her* for your marriage - how can you win?
Your fight is against what can make you repellent, against your anger, against your bitterness and resentment.
If you follow the 37 rules and work to become better equipped to navigate relationships, you may be able to rebuild with your W, but you definitely will be a happier person and better able to have healthy relationships.
If you continue railing against what she's done, you will solidify her decision and you won't have learned from this experience.
If she wants a D and you don't, about the most you can do is delay things, and start becoming someone who would be different to be married to, and better, than you were before.
My H asked for a D about a year ago. I don't want it, I think it's wrong for many reasons, and I will not help him get it. I'm just working on me, waiting, and being someone who would be much better to be married to than I was. I feel similarly cheated and wronged, and angry, but I try to push those feelings aside and deal with reality in an honorable and dignified way.
If my H changes his mind about D, it will be because I've been awesome and patient and loving this past year, not because I fought him on it and told him how wrong he was.
i like that adinva. very well said.
1702-
look man..i know you are hurting. i get it. we all do. this is not easy. i felt and somtimes still feel like you. its natural. the woman you love fired you. it hurts. you are mad. you can continue to be mad and see where it gets you. it got me to push my W further away. if i would have listened sooner, it might not be as bad. dont do that. you need to decide if you love her, NO MATTER WHAT. you cant change her. you can change yourself. hopefully she sees that, and it influences her. that would be great.
or be mad all the time..
No one is telling you to stop FIGHTING for your marriage, thats what we are all doing here.
We are telling you to stop FIGHTING with her.
I have this wet bar of soap here and I am going to hand it over to you, to hold for me.
Do you think if you squeeze it really hard that you will be able to do that?
After all I am telling you to HOLD it.
This works the same way the more you beg, plead, cry, the further away she will run.
This is very counterintuitive.
Letting GO is the only way you might get her back.
I totally agree with you about the marriage VOWS by the way, and you married for better or worse and right now this is the worse.
Loving her enough to let her go and find herself is what you must DO.
That much I am sure.
Thanks Bond for checking in... My sitch or plot has definitely thickened for the worst since the weekend. I'll get as much out and try to update later this evening.
I ended up breaking down after 4 days of NC. After going this long and with the holiday, my heart got the better of my mind and I just had to hear her voice. I guess what I am having the hardest time with is the question of why. I really and truly feel that the reasons she is giving me are her true feelings about the situation. She is placing almost all the blame on me when I truly feel that she, not necessarily has changed, but she doesn't want the responsibilities of being married. She is feeling guilty of wanting to lead a "single" lifestyle while still married. Ie, making decisions for herself and D, coming and going w/o worrying what I am doing or need, going out on wknds, not having anybody to answer to.
It is just easier for her to blame me rather that accept that her decision to end M is really not a valid reason other than to her. I feel that these feelings came from different places, and I take full responsibility for my part in making her feel certain ways.
After a 45 min conversation, we got off the phone, and even though I felt better to get things off my chest and feel that some parts of these convos make her "think" about the sitch, i didn't have any better feelings towards us.
The following day, I spoke with the one confidant that I have had throughout this whole thing. And again, I got the same story I have heard so many times... from confidant, from L, from friends, and different counselors... that she is gone, I deserve better, I deserve to be happy, what she is doing isn't what a loving wife would do, and so on....
Right after that conversation, the thoughts in my mind were almost unbearable. I did something that I am not sure if it will cause damage or not. I called in the mind set that i am the victim. I left her a msg that even though I do not want this and I am willing to do whatever it takes to save our M, that I only want her to be happy, that if a D is the only thing that will make her happy, to have papers drawn up and I will sign them....
Later on she text me to say that she got my msg and we would talk about it the next day. Then she said she would get me whatever I want. Yesterday came and went with only me sending her a msg about if she had time to think about details. No response. I sent her another msg today basically asking same thing, and got a "Ill definitely get ahold of you tonight.
Then the panic set in. I thought, What did I do?
Even though I know how bad things are with us right now, that I don't deserve to be going through this, I still love my wife more than anything. I just feel that she thinks that I won't sign papers out of spite. I also feel that because I do love her so much, and this is what she adamantly says she wants, I should just let her go and give what she is asking for.
As soon as I got finished with that thought, I called to see if I could get my 2nd DB coaching session today, but could not get appt. Virginia advised me in no way to have the convo about the details for just signing papers without talking to coach. I have appt for Sat and sent W back msg. to see if we could postpone talk til the end of wknd. She sent back "sure", I thanked her and said I have alot going thru my mind, need to get thoughts straight. This is our anniversary wknd, and I am having a very bad week.
I'll finish this later this evening.
Some people see a D as an end. Once it is done, it is like a death to them. They can only rebuild after it happens.
Does your W honestly deep down want a D, or does she not know what she wants so she believes a D will force her to move on?
In my situation, my W never said she wanted a D. She said she wanted time. She has told numerous people she sees us together. She has told me this. However, her actions don't match what I would think someone would do if they knew deep down the right path.
If I pressed for a D, I believe my W would follow along. Do I think she wants it? No. Do I think she would follow along because she still loves me and doesn't want me to hurt anymore because she hasn't had enough time to process what she wants? Yes.
My W wants space. As hard as it is, with all the mistakes I have made, I am finally giving her space.
If we get back together, if we don't, I am concentrating on GAL right now so no matter what happens, I will be a better person at the end.
Hopefully I can continue from earlier w/o getting off track.
So now, I am really confused about what I should do... I want nothing more than to save M. But I feel that my W really does want a D. She is relieved that she doesn't have a H around and feel guilty for her feelings of not being a good wife. She has been very clear that she has checked out and she is done.
After work and the reassurance that we could wait to have our talk, I called my confidant on way home. This person is totally honest with me and doesn't hold back, which I respect. I told them that I changed my mind about just giving in and signing papers, that even though I do want W to be happy, there is no way I could live with myself if I just gave in. Not to my surprise, I was told I was a fool, my W doesn't love me, there is no future or hope, and that I would be wasting 2 years out of my life, but that whatever decision I make is respected. Great, but alot of that convo weighs on my brain everyday. I know how my W feels. I know that there is little chance that she will come back and she will be moving on with her life without me in it. But, even though there is very little chance of W changing her mind, I would rather take that small chance than live the rest of my life knowing that I gave in.
But on the other hand, am I forcing my W unhappiness by not giving her what she wants?
"But on the other hand, am I forcing my W unhappiness by not giving her what she wants?"
First of all, you have to get one thing straight...
You are not responsible for making your W happy. It's a very important lesson to learn. We are all responsible for our own happiness. A person could be living with cancer and yet be very positive about life. Happiness is a choice that you make.
So you are not "forcing unhappiness" upon her. She's CHOOSING to feel unhappy. She could just as easily feel happy with you, but she's CHOSEN not to.
That's why right now you need to concentrate on the things that make YOU feel happy. And I'm not talking about being with your W. What other things make you feel validated and happy?
If you choose to not push the D, then be happy and proud in that fact. You're not "wasting" your time. But you can't linger on it and make that the sole reason for living and surviving.
If you go back to DR or DB, it shows you how now you can concentrate on the things that you liked to do. What gave you joy? (And again, I'm talking about things that don't include your W). What did you like to do BEFORE you met her?
You want W to be happy. Great. But nothing you can do will "make" her feel happy. She is going to decide for herself what makes her happy and what doesn't. If she feels like she can be happy with you, then it is her choice.
"I know how my W feels."
No you don't.
"I know that there is little chance that she will come back and she will be moving on with her life without me in it."
You keep telling yourself this and it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
CHOOSE to be happy.
who is this confidant? sounds like a woman to me..
Bond, she is happy. She feels relieved that I am not around anymore. She is relieved that she can live as a "single" person again and not have the responsibilities of being married.
I'm sure many people have been is same boat as me, but 90% of the stuff I enjoyed involved my W and SD. I loved coming home each night and seeing them for the first time that day. I loved helping with the house work, whether it was dishes, laundry, or outside work. I loved, even though, we may not have been getting along, being in the same room with them.
Now, I haven't seen SD in almost a month, only have limited contact with W, and no longer have a home to take care of.
I've lived for 32 yrs w/o know my W. I know what it is like without her in it. Even though things are bad, my life is much happier and fulfilling with her in it.
The biggest thing that keeps going thru my mind is that I know I don't deserve any of this or the way I am being treated. I deserve to have somebody love me and it is clear that my W no longer feels that way.
bond, she has chosen and she has checked out. How do I get my wife back if she has already move on. The limited talk we do have, it really sounds, in her voice, that she is done.
Actually it is. This is the woman who introduced the two of us. She is married to one of my best friends. Both of them have been amazing friends throughout this whole sitch.
"How do I get my wife back if she has already move on."
The first thing you do is stop assuming you know what she's thinking. You just contradicted everything I posted and then asked the same question in the end.
Look, we've all felt the same way you have so we GET IT. I and others have been trying to push you out of the pity party room but you want to stay in it. That's your 2x4.
You have alot of positives BUT CHOOSE NOT TO SEE THEM.
The fastest way to heal and improve is to choose to do so.
Bond,
I really do appreciate your imput. I do see my positives and know that I am a "catch".
I guess the biggest thing I cannot get over is that the hopes and dreams that I have had for a very long time are shattered. And, yes, she is the one that did this. And I'm sure I already know what others are going to say. That this is my choice and I am the one choosing to feel this way.
But, even after all these months, I still feel that unless my W and I are able to make things work, that I have nothing else left to give in my heart. And all the things that my W and I talked about in the beginning, are gone forever. All those things are gone because she led me to believe that she was someone she really wasn't.
I get that. Sometimes you have to get all the feelings and questions of 'why'. out of your head before you can move on. You'll get there.
One thing that I used to do was to go over the "Serenity Prayer". that really helped me to get my head straight.
The "why" is the biggest thing to me right now. It is even harder that she is even lying to me about that.
"It is even harder that she is even lying to me about that."
You know you keep mentioning this "lying" part. You really don't know that and it doesn't do your situation any good. It paints her in a bad light to you, and makes you even question yourself why you would want to still be married to someone so 'evil'.
Your W could just have changed her mind. It doesn't make her a liar.
When she said that she shouldn't have said yes to M. that she made a mistake marrying me. If this was the case, then why?
She absolutely knew how important marriage and family were to me and that this was it... that I was in for the long haul. She and I had so many talks from beginning that we both were committed to everything.
As all this has been happening, I've had small talks with her friends that she has had committment issues in the past. That basically she runs when she got too close to anything. I just thought that a M was different, but I guess people don't change.????
I have just read all your posts and everyone on here can relate to how you're feeling. Some people are further down the recovery route than you and have so much good advice... as hard as it is, listen to the advice. I'm at the early stages of my marriage problems and my emotions are all over the place. I've felt resentful, angry, isolated , misunderstood etc but I am so reassured that other people on this site can totally relate to my situation. You have to stop questioning why your W left you, it's so self-destructive. Accept that you might never understand why. Start believing that you can take tiny steps to recovery. Focus on yourself, let go of analysing and questioning everything your W has said/done. You cannot control someone else's thoughts but you can totally control your own. Positive thinking is extremely powerful, push out all the negative thoughts, keep busy and take control back. Good luck
You really do like contradicting things don't you? If you were to go back to every thread that reconciled on here, even the recent ones, you'll find that the WAS said the EXACT same things your W did. You are no different. The more you keep thinking that your wife is the exception, then you will fail.
Okay let me put it another way. If you think she's a liar and a cheat, then why don't you go ahead and file already? Go ahead and do it.
like ^^^^^ !!!! i think bond said almost the exact same thing to me. we are no different. thinking that way is destructive. i always thought i was different from other alcoholics. it was smebody else's fault, not mine. i now have 4 yes 4 DUI's i the last 10 years. am i really different? nope. im an alcoholic. is my W a different WAS then every other one? she said stuff that i thought was different. then i started reading other peoples stories. take their WAS's name out and put hers in. its all the same. its script.
if you dont believe it you will fail. thats the truth. i have almost failed because i didnt want to wake up and see what is. almost being the key word. i still might fail, if i dont change myself and the way i act.
good luck
Even though this was both of our 1st marriages, my W's last 3 or 4 R ended with her doing almost the same thing. I did know this from the beginning, but thought that it wasn't her fault, that there was a valid reason for her wanting out. So I just assumed she found what she was looking for an took the next step and married me because she realized I was the one.
Now she is telling me that this is no big deal, we have only been together for a little over two years, and that I will get over it. Its as if she is treating this as just another bad R that can end w/o giving it much thought.
"Okay let me put it another way. If you think she's a liar and a cheat, then why don't you go ahead and file already? Go ahead and do it. "
Sorry, I don't know how to put quotes in the boxes...
I am truly not sure I have any other choice other than to say yes to what she wants. If I don't initiate contact, I don't hear from her. When we go periods of time w/o contact, she gets further and further away. And it is making her even more mad that I don't want this. In her eyes, our M is broken and nothing can fix it.
Bond, I'll never be able to forgive myself if I file myself, so that won't happen. I feel that I am only preventing the inevitable for the time being.
I know, without a doubt, that she is a WAW. The only thing that I think is different is that other WAW's actually loved their H. I feel that I was just a guinea pig to see if she liked being married.
"The only thing that I think is different is that other WAW's actually loved their H."
Again, you're wrong. We all went through the "I never really loved you, etc."
I don't know what its going to take because with every post you still want to stay stuck and refuse to budge. It's up to you.
The only suggestion I have is for you to go back and read all the posts that responded to you. You haven't changed since then so they all apply. You hear but you don't 'listen'. Really get the message everyone is trying to tell you. It will click one day.
I really don't mean to offend anyone or think that I am not "getting it". Problem is i really think she is done. If I would tell her to get papers ready, she would have them ready for me to sign yesterday.
I really have not had an ounce of hope since she said to move my stuff out! Not even one sign...
I can give up, let go, and live my life as if.......
But I know without a doubt that she will move on without even a second thought.
question for you... Did you get what you originally came to this sight for?
lol..all of us who have a WAS would have papers served if we asked them to. really? i know you are hurting. i get it. you will never prevail if you dont put in the work. ever think your W is saying hurtful things to try to get through to you. no offense, but you seem pretty unwilling to see anyones point of view and i bet that includes your W's. good luck
It's not that I am not willing, but my W's last text said to me "I don't get how to make you understand.....
She is saying it is over and there is nothing I can do to change it. No counseling, no talking, no nothing. "I'm not your wife anymore" and "I am moving on with my life without you".
What do you do with that?
i agree with your W. i dont know how to make you understand. she sees it as trying to talk to a brick wall. c'mon man
Let me ask both you a question...
what happens when you have done everything and she still wants out? She has checked out and feels that her life is better without you in it... What do you do then?
But you haven't done everything. That's our point. Detach for real and see what happens. Do it for you.
move on with my head held high knowing i did everything i could. knowing i honestly looked at my shortcomings, worked them out and looked at things from her point of view. knowing i did not quit even when most people would have. knowing i gave my all to keep the family i have always wanted together. knowing i became the father my kids deserve and the husband my wife deserves. no one is perfect. not me, not my W. if i want her to forgive me i need to be willing to do the same for her.
if/when she files it will hurt me to my core. i also know that i will be okay. because i choose to be a better person everyday. i will know that i love my W unconditionally. so much that i want her to be happy, even if its not with me.
Detach and Lose... exactly what will happen.
I'm sorry, but I don't believe you. You came here to get your wife back, the same as 90% of the people that were looking at sites like this. I know I'll move on with my life no matter what, but I don't want to do it w/o her
or keep doing what you are doing and lose. seems like you are doomed. good luck with that. you stand to lose yourself too.
You are right... I am gone! I really don't think I have anything left after dealing with this for the last 3 months
"You are right... I am gone! I really don't think I have anything left after dealing with this for the last 3 months"
That's your words. Not ours.
I think you've still got a shot but since you don't want to believe it... rinse repeat
It's not that I am not willing, but my W's last text said to me "I don't get how to make you understand.....
She is saying it is over and there is nothing I can do to change it. No counseling, no talking, no nothing. "I'm not your wife anymore" and "I am moving on with my life without you".
What do you do with that?
My H said the same thing to me. Almost exact. And you know what he said a couple weeks ago? That he now can see a future with me. Never thought I'd ever hear that. If you believe in your marriage then believe in it. Get yourself busy and do things that you would have never done before. It's exhilarating and gets your mind off of the madness inside your marriage. Little by little, the hurt you're feeling seems to come less and less. I've been at this for 9.5 months and, no, I do not proclaim to be the greatest DB'er, but at times like this, I can see how WAS's feel confused because they think this is the only answer.
Well we all know, it's not the only answer. There is so much more to be done. Make a list of some great 180's that you can start to implement in your life. And start doing them. Do things that you would never be expected to do. It will feel extremely weird at first and then you'll start to see a difference in you. There's a lot to be said about taking a different approach, even if it feels utterly ridiculous.
Don't give up. Well, I guess, unless you want to. That is completely up to you.
You move on without her.
You become a better version of you.
Maybe she'll look back and want you, maybe she want.
But by then you may have moved beyond her.
This is not the end of the world.
Let her go. You can only save yourself.
1702,
First post on your thread. I've looked at some of your thread but not all to be honest. So forgive me if I've missed a critical point. Here are a few things that caught my attention:
--Wife wanting to live like she was back in her twenties"
Been there. My W, really changed her personality and started hitting the bars, drinking a lot and acting like a party girl. Nothing wrong with having fun but looks a little weird for a 40-something mother of 2.
--W only liked the idea of being married but never really loved you.
My W said the same thing. Said she fell in love with an idea of what she thought she was suppose to want and now found out it wasn't true as she is finding who she truly is.
--W said you deserve a family and happiness and to move on.
Yep, heard that too. My W was "so kind" to tell me that she'd understand if I didn't want to be married to her anymore...
My bomb dropped 2 years ago. I started doing DB stuff around the fall of 2011.
2 years later, my W and I spent an entire day together this week, just the 2 of us and no kids. W actually asked me to plan for family vacations next stuff - for all of us together. We are learning to be around each other again and her comfort level with me is growing.
I wasn't sure it would ever happen. I had to accept that it might not. When I did that, I was able to move on and focus on me and find joy for myself and not based upon whether or not my W as part of my life. She can bring me joy, but she cannot be the source of my happiness. That's too much to ask of anyone.
Just this week, we had a minor setback and my W told me she didn't want me going back to the person I was who was uptight, needy and suspicious. I agreed and we moved on.
I know this is the hardest thing you've ever faced. I'm betting each day feels like an eternity walking with a weight around your neck.
It sounds like your comfort zone is to hold tightly onto your W just so she is around even if being around is full of struggle, strife and hardship. Letting go is extremely risky...it just is. But sometimes you have to take the risk to find a reward. Its a step of faith to let go. People here are saying they took that step and it worked. For some it worked and their WAS came back. For others the WAS didn't come back but they grew as people and moved on to better lives.
People here are encouraging you to take that risk because they have seen for other and/or themselves the reward of the risk and want that for you too. We want you to know that you can be happy and fulfilled without your W. It may not be what you really want, but its what you need. And once you get that, you may find that you're more attractive to your W. But it has to be for you.
Good luck.
Is this a positive or am I just looking too much into things/mindreading????
I sent W a few texts last night about a few different things but the last one was that it isn't fair that she hasn't let me see SD in a month, that I missed her and I wanted to see her. She actually responds that if she isn't busy on Monday, that I could pick some stuff up and see SD for a little bit. Monday is our anniversary. Did she say this so we could see each other on our A or is it a coincidence/mind reading?
Mind reading. Don't bring it up.
So I was a WAW or whatever. The best thing you can do and I'm sure everyone is telling you this is to STEP BACK and GIVE SPACE. You want her to think of you as happy, fun, confident, stable, loving. Not angry, vengeful, disrespectful, hurt, full of blame and guilt. If you are angry or you demand answers from her or you bombard her with texts and questions you'll only push her away. It will require superhuman strength. It will require you being unselfish and putting aside your own pain about the situation. not everyone can do.
you have to decide if you want to do it.
You're mind reading. DO NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS. Take it for what it is. You get to see your SD. Be the best dad in that short time that you can.
Do not engage your W in any R talk at all. Don't guilt her, don't call her names, stop thinking in the back of your mind that she's a liar, etc. Those negative thoughts will creep up on you and can ruin your chances.
Be nice and cordial.
I will absolutely cherish whatever time I get to see daughter. I truly hope that there isn't an excuse for me not being able to see her. But I still won't let that get to me. I'll just keep asking.
I know in her "words" it is over. I am hoping my coaching session will help shed some light on this tomorrow, but I still don't know how to react when she tells me she wants to end this and it's over. I feel like I would be giving up by saying ok, but on the other hand, I would be disagreeing with her, which was one of our problems.
"I still don't know how to react when she tells me she wants to end this and it's over."
Say this...I understand how you feel and I respect it. And right now I'm interested in the relationship with SD.
When she says "Well why don't you give me what I want?"
Look her square in the eye and tell her. "I haven't stopped you. I don't agree with D and you should respect my decision. You want a D and I've respected that. If that is what you want, then you will have to take care of the paperwork. Why should I do something that I don't want to do? That will be you trying to control me. Now excuse me, I'm here to see my D."
You have to show no fear. WASs can sense when there's fear.
"Look her square in the eye and tell her. "I haven't stopped you. I don't agree with D and you should respect my decision. You want a D and I've respected that. If that is what you want, then you will have to take care of the paperwork. Why should I do something that I don't want to do? That will be you trying to control me. Now excuse me, I'm here to see my D."
That's great... Whether it is on phone, text, or in person on Monday, I know it will come up at some point. She doesn't really push it, but will want to figure things out. Maybe it's just me "overthinking", but I think the quicker she would get what she wants, she won't feel as guilty. Just my opinion.
She knows my stance on D and has said her L won't draw papers up and send them to me if I'm not going to sign. She knows that I would wait the 2 years for courts to make it go through.
You know, as i have been reading posts from the last several hours on yet another Friday evening, i keep seeing one thing that keeps coming up and I can't quit thinking about it.
These posts talk about GAL to be happy for yourself. Do things you enjoy to be happy.
What if one of the keys to my happiness comes from being M, having a family, a W, kids...?
Before I met my wife, I was happy, but I was missing something. The day I met her, something changed. The one thing that had been missing in my life finally showed up. I mean, I had an amazing family, friends, hobbies, a good job. And when we got married, something happened that I don't know if I can explain. It was as if God gave me W and D. I know the saying that you are the only one that can make yourself happy. but what if having the bond of M and family is the only thing I need to be happy.
Regardless of what happens, I know that life will go on. That I will be "happy" again. That all the other things that I enjoy doing will still be there. But the one thing that truly defined who I wanted to be or what I wanted more than anything is slowly being torn away and there is nothing I can do about it.
I'll never regret meeting my wife because she and D are the best thing that ever happened to me. But I feel that I wish I never met her or at least she would have let me know that she didn't have the same expectations that I did. I mean, we talked, in depth for months about everything. And now, the happiness that I want most, will never be.
We have all felt what your feeling man.
We could all say to our other halfs "You complete me."
But the reality we face has to be navigated. The alternative is to believe our lives are incomplete without marriage and family and not having that or any control over it will only lead to longing, regret and misery.
We have to believe in our heart of hearts and be open to the possibility that we can be happy and fulfilled in any number of different scenarios at least to the point where the thought of what we lost no longer stings us into paralysis.
Don't ever think you wish you two had never met. I used to think that - alot - that God could have planted the souls of my kids in another couple. But that's not right, because they are a part of ME and us. For the joy of having them in my life and the "good years" of marriage, I would go throughthe bomb, the divorce, the pain, the heartache, the rollercoaster, the fvcking "sitch" all over again. And I'm not jus' sain' that to sound aloof. Forgive my French.
Pickle
I guess i just dont get it... Why can marriage and family be one of the things that makes us happy. Just like music, hobbies, ect.
All I am trying to say is that, even though we had problems, my life "was" much happier M than to not have that.
"Why can marriage and family be one of the things that makes us happy."
There's nothing wrong with this. But it has to make BOTH people happy. Don't you get it?
I guess I didn't realize until now how self-centered your posts are. All you've written about is your happiness and how your W not being there messes it up. You call her a liar and accuse her of things. The biggest thing you're missing is compassion. You're not REALLY thinking about things from her POV. You can only focus on the negative and not think from a compassionate view why she's doing what she's doing.
Even when you say that you can help her be happy if she comes back, etc. In the end it's all to only make YOU happy. Well she's not happy and that's that.
So you don't have a W and family right now. Deal with that fact. Then you can move on to what to do next and see what the next thing is that makes you happy.
Again, you're choosing to stay in the hole and refuse to look up for a way out.
Rinse, repeat
Bond, I never said "us"! I said me!! I appreciate your opinions and thoughts, but if I am to continue using this forum from ur standpoint, I would give up the fight. In her eyes, the only thing that would make her happy is a divorce. She is content with being apart, and not willing to do any thing to save our M.
You may be a veteran on here from your number of posts, but you tell me to be compassionate about what she feels.. I have been for the last 3 months. If I wasn't, I wouldn't have packed all my stuff and moved. I feel she is doing this because she is confused about what she wants and what it takes to make a marriage work.
What if one of the keys to my happiness comes from being M, having a family, a W, kids...?
Before I met my wife, I was happy, but I was missing something.
Because this means you weren't really happy in yourself and on your own. You can't look at a person to find something missing in you. Otherwise what are you offering....you're taking from them. And if someone feels responsible for your happiness that's a whole lot of pressure and burden to bear.
No one is saying you shouldn't want to be married or want to be a parent. We're saying you shouldn't NEED it in order to function on a daily basis.
I feel she is doing this because she is confused about what she wants and what it takes to make a marriage work.
Yes she is confused about what she wants. And I think you're confused as well about what it takes to make a marriage work. We ALL are of we wouldn't be here.
Are you patient enough to give her what she wants even if it means not having what you want?
Are you going to take the time to honestly look at how you can be a better partner to her should you get back together? And yes you contributed to the break up as well...it's never one sided. And even the best of spouses can improve.
"I feel she is doing this because she is confused about what she wants and what it takes to make a marriage work."
That's not being compassionate. You have to think OUTSIDE the M. There's something else that's bugging her. Either way you can't "fight" it. That's why you stay stuck.
When you "fight" you are combative. You get defensive. You can't "see" why she's doing what she's doing because to you it's crystal clear.
That's all mind-reading. You can't possibly know or presume to know what she's thinking and feeling.
The sooner you give up that notion, the clearer your eyes will be as to what you plan of action will be.
No, I do get why she feels that this is the only answer. I really do. She flat out doesn't want to be married. She doesn't like the fact that, in a marriage, there are two people, not just one. She doesn't want the responsibilities of marriage, words out of her mouth!
Brit, I was happy before I met my wife, but I had always been missing something. I am still the same person w/o my wife, but I am better and more complete. I know i don't NEED to be married, but I want that. I don't want to grow old by myself!
I honestly feel that the only way our M would work, if she was willing, is if she made the rules.
Got a very interesting text from W this morning. On my way to see SD, my W wants me to stop to sign paper at her credit union so she can refinance house. My name has never been on the deed, but she wants me to sign something. Does anybody know why I would have to sign something?
when i sold a house i owned prior to marriage, my husband had to sign, too. he had a legal interest, even though his name was not the deed.
so I basically would be giving up my legal interest while she is refinancing??
Don't sign anything until you know what you are signing and why. You need advice from someone, other than W, about what the repercussions of you signing might be.
That is basically what I sent her back... that I wasn't being difficult or trying to make her mad, but I wanted to know what it was about before I signed anything. She is saying that it is some kind of waiver that she is trying to refi to get a lower rate. I know why she is doing this... We had bought a faily expensive vehicle right before all this was happening. With the mortgage, the house expenses, and new vehicle payment, I don't think she can afford all this w/o trying to refi house to knock a few hundred bucks off the monthly payment.
I feel like I am in a hard place because she is trying to make things easier for herself... But this was her choice. I, in no way, wanted any of this. Am I being difficult by not wanting to sign anything to, in her words, "hold up or delay this for her".?
I feel that if I don't sign papers and attempt to get L involved to know what my rights are, W will think I am being controlling and delaying the whole process out of spite. But I feel that if I just go ahead with this, I am showing everybody I am giving up and turning my back on my M and providing for my W and family.
You have no control over what she thinks, good or bad.
Do what is best for you.
Therein lies the problem... I don't sign the waiver because I don't feel that our M is to the point of finalizing everything and she gets even more defensive about the thought of working on M. I sign, and she is taking more steps to no longer need me around.
I guess how I'm feeling is she is now realizing, at least financially, what we were able to have together, but is doing everything in her power to not let that influence her actions about ending our M.
It would be best for me to not sign anything... Basically giving me more time in hopes that she would be willing to see if we could salvage anything in our M. But she is going to feel that I am just doing this out of spite, to make her suffer and make her life harder...
Question, Isn't she the one that wanted this? and What about me??
She hasn't worried once about how this has affected me.
She is the one executing the "family destruction plan" don't do anything to aid her or make it easier, or cheaper... make it clear that you don't want any of it.
Thanks... I don't want any of it! But either way, I don't want her life to be harder because of me. She is the one that made these decisions, but regardless, I still love her and i don't want her life to be more difficult because of me.
Her life won't be harder BECAUSE of you.... it will be harder BECAUSE of HER CHOICE not to have you in it.
thanks for your vote of confidence. I kind of already know that....
But, even if there is the smallest chance, I don't want to screw that up by "being difficult".
I guess it is her choice if she wants to follow thru with "her plan" and she is going to have to realize the consequences.
Is your wife more attracted to the confident man or the push-over?
It may very well piss her off in the short term, but as long as you are on the righteous path and speaking the truth, even the most hardend hearts will see that.
Its difficult, I am dealing with alot of the same, I was just layed-off, wait till she see's my claim for spousal maintenance to pay for school.... since we agreed I would finish my degree before all this crap went down....
"that I wasn't being difficult or trying to make her mad"
Stop saying stuff like that. You really don't understand what I and everyone else is telling you.
You can't keep being afraid and mindreading about what she will or will not feel. "My way" as you refer to my posts doesn't tell you to give up. It tells you that in order to get her back you can't always worry about what she might or might not do. That's none of your concern.
Let me put it to you this way. She's going to get mad at you no matter what. So what do you want to do protect yourself and your SD? And stop saying how much happier YOU are when you're married. Fact is that you're not married right now. You have a W who is looking to start a new life without you. You have to deal with that and the consequences first in order for you to get rid of the fear.
"W will think I am being controlling and delaying the whole process out of spite."
Almost all of your posts has something like this. She's going to think you're controlling REGARDLESS of what you do. My W accused me of the same thing. EVERYONE's spouse accuses them of the same thing. It's because they don't want to take responsibility for their actions. That's fine. But YOU don't have to do what you don't want to do if it's not in YOUR best interest.
If you sign the papers, you might be liable for the payment if she can't upkeep. Then what happens if she finds another guy and he moves in with her? You'll be stuck paying the house that the two of them are living in. That's reality.
You ask the same questions, yet refuse to budge and want to stay in the hole. All of the posters are offering you a way out to save your M but you're refusing to take it, yet you ask the same questions.
Bond, as of this morning, there are now two sets of papers I am talking about. of course the D papers, but now there are papers that waiver my right to any part of the house so she can refinance. She is basically trying to knock down what she is paying because now she has a pretty hefty vehicle payment that she didnt have when I met her. Now she has to pay mortgage, utilities, personal bills, and a vehicle payment that she wasn't used to paying the entire time she owned the house. I originally told her I would pay for the Tahoe since my truck payment was almost finished. I don't think she realized what impact it would have.
Okay. But that still doesn't change the fact that you need to protect your own interests as much as she's trying to protect hers. Save it for the L. When you see your SD and your W asks if you signed the paperwork, then tell her that you wanted him to take a look at it first. And then drop it.
If she starts threatening you about not being able to see your SD, etc. log that down. Save all correspondences.
Remember its all HER choice... Only do what you are forced to do by the courts, nothing else...
You're exactly right about that. I had already had this planned in my mind about telling her I wouldn't sign anything until L saw.
As far as SD, between you, me, and the forum, as much as I would do anything to have a future with SD, I would never put her through what would need to be done to make sure I still see her. It is not fair to her to have to go thru what her mom and I are doing. I will basically do whatever is best for SD, not matter what.!!!
The last msg I got from her was to please not make a big deal of this and not delay this for her. She was only trying to make things easier on her.
What about me? Am I supposed to make things easier on her and I've been going thru hell for the last 3 months!???
Just needed to see that in writing.
Don't think about it... do nothing to help make it easier for her...
Go skydiving instead, that will clear your mind.
Very interesting turn of events that has me reeling with mixed emotions...
I thought long and hard about signing the waiver so she could refinance house. This morning, I sent her a msg that I understood where she is at and what she wants, but I am not at that point yet, so I couldn't be signing any papers that would move the future along that we couldn't agree on. I told her that I was really looking forward to seeing SD and that I didn't want to take away from that by thinking or talking about our sitch. Also said that if she wanted, we could make plans to sit down and talk, w/o distractions, about what she wanted for the future so i could really hear and understand what she wanted.
After a very short wait, I got this back...
"don't come over. ... U know i need to refinance so I can afford everything. Has nothing to do w/ finalyzing anything, but whatever."
I responded by saying that I would really like to see SD, i really miss her, but I understand. Told her I am sorry for her situation, but this was her choice. Told her she doesn't have the right to be mad at me, I have respected her decision, but she needs to understand where I am at too. All I was asking for was to sit down and talk about it.
Asked if I could at least drop off little gift I got for SD and I wouldn't stay. Said that whatever issues she and I have shouldn't impact the bond that SD and I have together.
Few minutes later, I missed a call from her and haven't heard anything back yet.
I know she is fuming mad and she is holding SD as leverage.
I knew that she couldn't afford everything by herself, but I didn't think it would come out this quick.
She is reacting rather than responding.... don't let it bother you.... stand your ground.
I think you missed an opportunity, I don't think you got advice not to sign but rather to find out what you were signing and how it would affect you before you signed.
Told her I am sorry for her situation, but this was her choice. Told her she doesn't have the right to be mad at me, I have respected her decision, but she needs to understand where I am at too. All I was asking for was to sit down and talk about it.
All of this is blaming, shaming and threatening.
Is that what you wanted to project? You didn't need to say any of this, IMO.
You should have just discussed it with your L like you said you would and then told her such. The way you phrased everything does sound very controlling.
You're still trying to steer her the way you want to and it's not working. Yes she's using your SD as leverage, but go back and look at what you did. It seemed like you were using the paperwork as leverage too.
Standing your ground is one thing. But telling her that she has to go back to talking about the R with you is another. That's the number one no-no of DB.
You're killing your chances.
And just to clarify, you missed an opportunity to be able to see your SD, show your W how good of a father you are and earn back a little bit of goodwill in her eyes.
Now you don't get to see your SD at all or your W for that matter.
I know that you're hurting and you're frustrated but I would listen to MrBond. He is giving you really great advice. Seriously.
One of the most important points about DB'ing is "DO WHAT WORKS." What you have been doing so far is NOT working. Change your approach. Try to take on a different perspective.
The best way I can see things from my H's perspective and try to get a glimpse of how he's feeling is... I think back on guys that I dated that I didn't feel an attraction to. I knew they were attracted to me, but I just wasn't feeling it for them. It didn't mean they were bad people or they had something wrong with them. It just was something that I felt inside. And to have that person constantly pursue me, is uncomfortable. It doesn't feel right.
Try to look at that as your W's point of view. How can you change your behavior so you're not constantly making her feel uncomfortable? Stop talking about the R. Stop telling her how you feel about her. She knows. Show her that you can be happy and that life goes on. She will soon come to wonder what happened???
I can tell you that when one of the guys I used to date (that I wasn't attracted to) had told me that he no longer felt the same way about me. It still had an affect on me. It made me feel like... why? And had I not been dating my H at this same time, I probably would have felt really sad about it and pondered over what changed to make him feel that way.
Read this over and over until you understand it. I promise, I know how you're feeling to the highest degree. I've felt it all.
I do have to apologize... I told her I wanted to talk about the future of what she was proceeding with... The D and the things she needed from it. I never once said to her that I wanted to talk about us. Just about what was going to happen in the next steps with D.
I would say, if you don't want this, then why should you be the one to go to her and ask how things are going to proceed? Let her come to you and tell you. Let her do the work.
And in the meantime, find things to do that will make you happy. Something that helped me is hanging out with old friends. People that grew up with me and really know me. Those kinds of things can take you back to a time when you were happy without your spouse. You had a life before her.
The papers were exactly like I thought they were. Basically, they stated that I gave up all rights to the residence. When I was telling my W that I was unsure of signing, it was in no way to try to make her life harder by not giving in. I was just trying to protect me. In the end, I just gave in and signed them because I do really want what is best for W and SD. After she found out I was going to sign, she said to stop over to see SD.
Turned out on both ends of spectrum! It was amazing to see SD. She was shy at first. It's been a month since I last saw her. But it didn't take long for her to warm up. We played and ran around for over an hour.
On the other end, this was our anniversary and was very difficult to even hold it together. I'll be honest... there were moments where I had to turn away so I didn't lose it. My W, once had to walk into different room for really no reason. Not sure why, but I kinda hope it was that she was feeling the same as I was.
I didn't over stay my visit. She offered for me to stay and eat with them. I ended up leaving after a couple hours. She knew how difficult the day was for me.
One thing I did find odd was that she had said she had some stuff for me. Mail and some other stuff, but the only thing she gave me was the mail. She didn't say another word. I'm kind of hoping it was so I could go back again.
Well you did well. You should have stayed for dinner though.
She shouldn't have used your SD for leverage though. How was your interaction with your W?
Kind of short. she knew I wanted to spend as much time with SD as possible. She left to run to store and let us play outside. As far as with W, she asked a few questions about me but I was having a very, very hard time with the anniv. I stayed until they were getting ready to eat, but I felt as though I was going to lose it and I didn't want to do that there, esp. in front of SD.
After my second DB session, I think going "gray" is what my next in line should be. I don't feel going dark would work.
One thing my W said earlier today that made me think...
She said signing these papers today meant nothing about our sitch and it wasn't finalizing anything. She was either trying to get what she wanted or ... I don't know.
Didn't your W originally tell you that she didn't want to see you any more which is why you went dark?
How do you intend to go "dim" when she doesn't want you around? If you weren't strong enough to stay there for a longer period today, I don't think you're ready yet.
It really does sound like you're still doing what you want to make yourself happy. You have to have her be the one to start inviting you and softening. Right now it doesn't seem like you have the patience to wait.
Bond,
That is what I have been trying to say the whole time. She would be perfectly fine if she didn't even have to think about this situation again. I'm not going to try to figure out if it's because she feels guilty or really never loved me, but she truly walked away and does not even want to look back. I feel that longer I go w/o communication w/ her, she continues to get farther away. I truly feel that she would be more comfortable and relieved if she didn't have to think about this situation again. Even from things from her past, she runs away from any problems and doesn't address anything.
this has nothing to do with patience...I've already gone 3 months and am willing to wait as long as it takes. But if I let things go completely, she will be gone.
As far as doing things that make me happy, that is very difficult when the majority of those things revolved around my family. I'm not a bar person that likes spending nights out like that. The things I enjoyed, like spending time w/ family, yard work, fixing or building things around house have been taken away from me. Hunting season doesn't start for some time.
She would be perfectly fine if she didn't even have to think about this situation again.
Assumption on your part. You do this a lot. Stop it.
I'm not going to try to figure out if it's because ...
Good. Can we call you out when you start doing this again?
... she feels guilty or really never loved me, but she truly walked away and does not even want to look back.
Assumption.
I feel that longer I go w/o communication w/ her, she continues to get farther away. I truly feel that she would be more comfortable and relieved if she didn't have to think about this situation again.
OK, for you to feel this way, but the funny thing in all this is that unless she feels that freedom, the situation will continue to spiral down. And it will all be your fault. In her eyes that is ...
this has nothing to do with patience...I've already gone 3 months and am willing to wait as long as it takes.
Three months? Seriously? PFFFTT, you're a piker. Do you know how long others on here have DB'ed? If you're not in this for the long haul, quit now.
But if I let things go completely, she will be gone.
Stealing a line from Bond ... rinse, repeat ....
The things I enjoyed, like spending time w/ family, yard work, fixing or building things around house have been taken away from me.
Stop being a victim. It's not helping you and it certainly isn't attractive to your wife. You're at your mother's right? I'm sure she could use a hand with something.
Look, I'm not trying to be hard on you. Well, yeah I am, because you're not listening. Trust me, we'll ALL been where you are now. Stop mindreading and assuming, and just once, ONCE, stop being so self-centered and look at things from her point of view.
1702,
You are getting some great advice, unfortunately you refuse to utilize it.
You have to realize that you only have control of yourself. Bond and Drew are telling you that you keep repeating the same behavior over and over again. How is that working for you thus far? What are YOU doing to change YOURSELF? You have mentioned that you read the books. Perhaps it is a good time to read them again.
Do you read other threads in these forums? The place is a gold mine with advice, knowledge and wisdom.
Take your focus away from your W and focus on yourself. I know it is difficult, but you are wasting time.
It is your responsibility to get yourself to a happy and attractive place that is not dependent on anyone else. It is genuine change. You will find yourself in a much better place no matter what the outcome of your sitch is.
Attractive: Confident, Happy, Strong, Humble, Accountable, independent
Unattractive: Weak, Needy, Dependent, Insecure, Unhappy
You are the captain of your ship. Where are you going to steer it to?
AMEN!
1702, are you listening to this?
"I feel that longer I go w/o communication w/ her, she continues to get farther away."
Let her go. Detach.
LITB,
I have just recently read your recent posts and I want to truly say how blessed you are to reconcile your family. I am sure there is no one else in the world that is happier.
On my side, I know there is great advice on here and people are only looking to help. But no one knows my W like I do. I am scared to death that the more I detatch, the more I am at risk of her being gone from my life. This is exactly what she wants. She wants me to move on with my life... for whatever her reasoning is, she wants to seperate our lives so that time will take away the fact that we were ever together. I know what has gone on hasn't worked, but I am still in her life. She would welcome all those attractive qualities, but she does not care that I have those cause she says she is moving on with her life w/o me in hers.
My problem is I CANNOT get over the why! Why would she wait for 2 1/2 years for this to come out if she felt this way in the beginning? Why would she change her mind about wanting more children, rather than tell me up front about any reservations? I cant get over any of this. I know I am sounding like the victim, but when we both met, we said that it was fate because this was our one and only chance at this. Now I am left with no W, no family, no children, a SD that I might only get to see very sparingly, no home, and all that comes with all of these things.
I do see that in most cases, detaching makes the WA start to think... But in my W's case, it will only solidify her stance with our sitch. One of our biggest problems was we were both stubborn. As you can see from my posts, I am stubborn. Very stubborn. But she is twice that of me! It would end up that I just gave in because I didn't want to fight anymore. She is very independent and would rather do things on her own rather than count on anyone but her own family. Have you ever heard of the person that would rather look good and lose than look bad and win? As soon as I completely detach, she is going to move on and put "us" out of her mind like it never happened. I do not see a chance that she would even consider coming back because, in her mind, it is her being weak. This is her way and there is nothing that can be done to sway her decision. She resents the fact that legally, we are married now.
1702,
What are your favorite six numbers between 1 and 48? And out of those six which one is REALLY your favorite?
...........sigh..........
Go ahead and say "but", one more time......
IN YOUR OWN WORDS:
"On my side, I know there is great advice on here and people are only looking to help. But no one knows my W like I do."
"My problem is I CANNOT get over the why! Why would she wait for 2 1/2 years for this to come out if she felt this way in the beginning?"
OBVIOUSLY, YOU ONLY THINK YOU KNOW HER.
"I know what has gone on hasn't worked,..."
"One of our biggest problems was we were both stubborn. As you can see from my posts, I am stubborn. Very stubborn..."
LUKE, LET GO, USE THE FORCE.
The point is we (none of us) KNOW the person our WAS's have become. They have been abducted by aliens, had their memories corrupted and replaced, metaphorically speaking.
The DB techniques are counter intuitive, designed to break the cycle, to seperate reality from fantasy for many a WAS, A kind of here's what you want, so here's what it's going to look like, in a mature, gentle way. The DB techniques also encourage personal changee to offer a new reality, better, stronger, healthier a kind of, here's how it could be. Takes time, but you have to start somewhere.
First, you have to stabilize yourself before you can have enough patience and independence to figure out how to proceed. That means detach.
You just sound so fixated on your assessment of your situation, and that's going make things more difficult for you. That's why the "sighs".
Let me repeat: you might think you know her, but you don't, not the present version anyway.
Pic.
Here's the 2x4.
"But no one knows my W like I do."
Really? So you knew she was going to D you?
"My problem is I CANNOT get over the why!"
Wait, I thought you said no one knows her like you do.
"But in my W's case, it will only solidify her stance with our sitch."
Really? You don't know because you haven't really tried the other way. You're just afraid to.
"One of our biggest problems was we were both stubborn."
What do you mean "were"? You do know that if it was a turn-off for her before, it is definitely 200% moreso now.
You know there's a reason why MWD says in her book that DBing isn't going to seem natural. Because it goes against instinct, BUT it works.
I think everyone here can predict what your W is going to feel and do better than you because you refuse to budge and look at things objectively. The ones that succeed are the ones that let go.
Heck your W is the twin sister of our spouses. She said the same things, same legal threats, etc.
I guess my question is, why do you post here? Do you come for answers? It seems like you're just looking for people to agree with your POV. Everyone is telling you what you don't want to hear. Even the ones who's marriages have been saved. But you think you're the exception. Let me tell you something. NO ONE is the exception.
And you complain because you've been "suffering" for 3 months. It took 2 years before my W even talked to me and we have 2 natural kids together.
The day you STOP saying how different your sitch is, is the day that your M will actually get better.
Ha! In a Pickle beat me by a few minutes! Isn't it ironic how the advice is almost exactly the same as mine?
And mine.
He knows his wife ...
He doesn't know his wife ...
Which is it?
hi 1702
i just read the last couple of pages of your thread. i wanted to pop in and say a few things. i hope very much they can help you, and i wish that some one (i didn't find this board until month 7) had been able to point them out to me at the 3 month point.
you're really lucky you found this board so early. and i know exactly where you are right now - i kicked and screamed and really genuinely BELIEVED every word my WAS said to me in the first months. and i was just on a WHY, WHY , WHY roller coaster of my own flapping in deep panic.
here's the deal - if i had known during those 3 months what i know now, i would have been a lot less hurt by all the things my h was saying.
DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING THEY SAY AND HALF OF WHAT THEY DO
this is really true.
i know that it's impossible for you to see it right now, because the hurt is so overwhelming - this person that you trusted completely has just upended your life and you are floundering in this "picture" they have created of you, that you had no idea even existed.
you just need to take one little baby step for yourself right now - breathe, allow yourself to calm down and take a step back. stop the thoughts that you've had until now about YOUR perception of what your wife will do if you let go and detach a bit.
instead start to see that when people are hurting (as your wife is) they lash out and the one that they lash out to is the person they love the most.
stop listening to and HOLDING onto what your wife has said.
when i finally got to this board and began to understand what was really going on with our WAS's , my first thought was - oh my god, i took every last thing he said so personally as if it was really true and did myself so much damage by getting so hurt and affected by it - it trashed my self esteem, brought up HUGE issues of abandonment that took me months to work through - which was good, as i needed to work through them and make myself better.
start there, and then reread the posts that have been written to you - if you genuinely want to get back with your wife - think about this : if you can't start to let go of the hurt now, how are you going to let go of it later?
you're allowing the hurt to stand as a wall between you and what you really have to do - which is get focused on what you really want and find out how to get there.
as you travel on this long journey, be prepared to find out things that you never imagined - about yourself, about your wife and about your relationship as it really was.
letting go is a long and hard and very painful journey and doesn't just happen, but it is the only way to be able to have even a fighting chance at what you want - which is your family back together,
for months i told myself that my h is so stubborn: once he makes up his mind he'll never change it and it scared the heck out of me. now i'm at the point that it doesn't scare me any more - and that's where you will eventually get in your journey, if you choose to take it.
the fear you're feeling right now, is palpable - your wife can pick it up a mile away. that's what allows her to stay in the position she's in and hold onto it.
it's counter intuitive, what works here. when you lose the fear - and you're willing to lose the relationship, that's when things will change, because she will sense that from a mile away too. and only then will she be able to clearly see what she is losing. until she can really feel that what she's doing will risk losing you, she will keep her position.
But be careful, if you interpret that as you telling her you're done now, she'll take you up on it without missing a heartbeat. you can't use this as a manipulative tactic - it is only when you genuinely get there through working on yourself and finding out what your role was in the relationship to bring it to this point. and also, everytime you think you've figured it out, more stuff will come up and surprise you
but realize - this will take you a long while to do - meanwhile ACT AS IF that's how you feel to get it started and eventually, over many months you will feel that in a genuine way.
the 37 rules are here for us for a very good reason - they are a good guide to getting started and staying the course.
before you decide, take a few days to really look at your wife and situation and whether you want to take this long road for the both of you. it takes a lot of courage because there will be NO positive feedback from your spouse for waaaay longer than you can ever imagine. when it's said we need patience, it is an understatement of gigantic proportions. you will find along the way that each time you thought you knew what patience was, you need to learn it in a new way again.
so i hope you decide to take the long hard journey - because you will become a new person through it - and a really beautiful one and you will love yourself SO MUCH MORE than you can ever imagine right now.
right now, you are consumed more by the fact that your wife doesn't love you than you are about how much you may not love yourself. in time, you will find out that the latter is much more important and could possibly bring your wife and you back together one day.
so ((( ))) and i hope you listen to the vets on your thread - you are lucky that they are helping you out so much
zig
Pickle, .007, and Drew posted much of this before me. And although it is much the same, at some point, it will be said so that it is heard....
On my side, I know there is great advice on here and people are only looking to help. But no one knows my W like I do.
Very true...
BUT....
Did you KNOW that she was capable of walking away ?
I know what has gone on hasn't worked, but I am still in her life. She would welcome all those attractive qualities, but she does not care that I have those cause she says she is moving on with her life w/o me in hers.
Insanity is doing the same things over and over again, while expecting different results.
You know it isn't working, yet you admit you do those things still...
The "but" is your excuse to not do better. Every time I see the word "but" used, it becomes a disclaimer to everything preceding it.
I want to stop smoking, BUT they still make cigarettes...
So whose fault does that become ?
The "but" , becomes an excuse for poor behavior...
I know I am sounding like the victim, but when we both met, we said that it was fate because this was our one and only chance at this.
Who said that it was the ONLY chance at this ???
As far as being the victim...
Not only are you sounding like one, you are playing that role very well.... (The "buts" are tell-tale)
You know this, yet you still ALLOW yourself to show that side of you...
I would ask "why" do you allow yourself to do that ?
I do see that in most cases, detaching makes the WA start to think... But in my W's case, it will only solidify her stance with our sitch.
You know this to be fact ?
Or your assumption ????
One of our biggest problems was we were both stubborn. As you can see from my posts, I am stubborn. Very stubborn. But she is twice that of me!
Monkey see, monkey do ???
Change the "you", in that equation
It would end up that I just gave in because I didn't want to fight anymore. She is very independent and would rather do things on her own rather than count on anyone but her own family. Have you ever heard of the person that would rather look good and lose than look bad and win? As soon as I completely detach, she is going to move on and put "us" out of her mind like it never happened. I do not see a chance that she would even consider coming back because, in her mind, it is her being weak. This is her way and there is nothing that can be done to sway her decision. She resents the fact that legally, we are married now.
You are trying to read her mind.....STOP
Is this about "winning" to you ?
Look man, I'm not all about busting your chops here...
You have been ignoring some pretty good stuff that has been posted to you.
At what point will you slow down, breathe, and listen to the wisdom that has been given to you ?
Right now, her choice is to leave the marriage...
What things led her to that decision ?
Those are her things.
Can you change her mind ?
My question would be....Would you rather have her back because you did something to manipulate her back ????
Or would you rather stop, look, and listen. Change your thought process, and make better choices, so that you can enhance your next relationship? Which BTW, it is entirely possible that it can be with your current wife.
Your post count is getting pretty high, and I expect this thread to be locked soon....
How about you start a new thread, and start working toward healing, and identifying the things YOU could do differently, in the future.
???