Previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2236949&page=1I went to H's parent's house last night and spoke with him and his parents. I haven't really been able to tell them my side and what I've been going through. Please keep in mind that these are people that I spent the majority of my last 10 years with. I am very close with them.
The conversation started with me trying to set some boundaries. No sleepovers with OW and my kids and no more overnight trips. (at least for now) I could tell as I was describing what I wasn't liking, H kept fighting me on it, not understanding why it was such a big deal. This is a hard thing because nothing he's doing is against the law and our kids are little so they don't completely know what's going on.
My biggest thing is that it's too soon, it's confusing to them, it's showing them that this behavior is ok, and it's just too much for me to take right now. I told them that the three week period of me keeping them was literally so I could have a couple of weeks of normalcy without having to hear about what H and OW are doing with my kids. I dread giving them back to him just for that reason. Everything they tell me HURTS. There's no way around it. It just hurts.
And I know H isn't doing any of this to hurt me, but it hurts just the same. Once I explained that to them, they completely understood.
H then tried to talk to me about how we were going to handle the D. Was I willing to work with him? My answer was, I don't know. I'm struggling with this because I want to protect myself and I don't want to get sucked in to giving him everything he wants just because I love him. I sat there for a long time trying to look at the custody issues from every angle... and nothing makes sense in my head.
I don't want to fight him anymore. But I feel trapped. I have no direction. He has complete direction. He knows exactly what his next moves are because he has someone that he wants to share his life with already. He has a job and he has a great support system with his family. I will be forever jealous of that. They are everything to me and are really such good people that it's hard to let it go.
My FIL told me that I need to come around more. I told him, I can't be here and there. I have to stay there. It's too hard right now to want so badly to be a part of their family knowing that H doesn't want me there. And that OW could be coming around at any given time. How do you go about doing that? That just doesn't seem possible to me.
As we talked more about details of how we were going to proceed, my H started to talk about splitting up debts and our belongings and that just made me downright depressed. This is really happening. How am I supposed to let my mind go there? I told him its really hard for me to put my energy into figuring out how to split things up when I'd rather put my energy into saving my marriage.
And I talked for a long time about the potential I see in us, how making each other a priority has been one of our biggest downfalls. It could make all the difference in the world. I spoke for a long time and everything I said made perfect sense and my H even started crying while I was talking. And when I was done he said, "I hear you say all of this and I get it. But I formed this R with someone that I can't see myself letting go."
That is a hard thing to swallow. So in my mind I'm thinking... he HAS to have this R with her. He HAS to see where it goes and there's nothing I can do about it. Whether it works or not, it's no longer my concern. Because he's basically made the point that she's worth it. She's worth breaking up our family. I'm scared to death that they will be truly happy together for a long time.
This is not a woman that I would ever be proud to have my children around and I'm not just saying that because she's with my H. Her character is very shady. She thinks she's a harda$$ and acts like it. She has no morals (has no problem sleeping with a married man with 3 children). "Parties." The list goes on and on.
I have to just get divorced. Moving on is the only thing that will bring me happiness. Would I still want to be with my H if he asked me tomorrow? Yes. There would be so much work to be done, but I know it would be so worth it. Going through a tragedy really awakens your soul. Why are we here? What is this life all about? Who do I want to be?
I am going to try to move forward with grace. It is going to be THE HARDEST thing I will ever do in my life. I have been fighting this for so long and now I have to wave the white flag. A part of me has died. The closest person I have ever been with in my life is quite possibly gone forever. It is a hard truth to face.
So one of the last things I said in our conversation was that this whole thing is so frustrating because I feel like neither one of us did the work. We have these issues that need to be worked on but instead we walked away from them. So instead of learning how to have a healthy R with one another, we're going to take these issues and implement them into another R. My H then said, I've been working on my communication. I said, "With OW?" He said, "Yes."
That was a low blow. I then said, well, I should go. I got up and his parents followed me to the door and his dad asked for a hug and said to me... I miss you. His mom then hugged me forever and just balled. My H just watched. They then walked me out to my car and waved good-bye as I pulled out of the driveway. Man, this is HARD!! My life as I know it has been shaken to the core!
This morning my H then sent me a text saying, I've been thinking a lot about the last thing I said to you yesterday and I wanted to clarify that I am not just working on communicating better with OW. I am working on just communicating better in general, but that I am still struggling with it.
I then told him thank you for telling me that because I was feeling very hurt by that comment. I also told him that if things are ever going to get better between us, he does need to communicate better. Maybe ask himself why he's keeping things from me. What is it accomplishing? (for example, the camping trip that he wasn't going to tell me about and gave me no details about until he got home... that was really not cool at all and he agreed.)
I told him that I was going to work on not being so angry. It is a hard thing to control right now with OW in the picture with my kids. I have no idea how people do this. Looking forward doesn't even bring me an inkling of hope because I know that I will always have to deal with her. There's no escaping it. And new problems are going to continue to arise. Such a mess!!
Any words of encouragement or advice would be greatly appreciated right now. I always have this small little thought that maybe one day I will really be the one he wants and OW will be out of the picture because she was just a phase. It is insane that I even want H back after the things that he's put me through. But at the same time, I put him through hell, too, over a longer more gradual period of time. So what can you do?
So sorry about the hard conversations and realizations. Hugs....
Now, for some suggestions (maybe come back to these in a few days):
Stop telling H you want to reconcile. He knows.
Stop asking him rhetorical questions you don't want to hear the answer to.
And, for sure stop involving HIS parents (very inappropriate).
Every time you do any of those things, you push him firmly into OWs arms, and, especially by involving his parents, you make it much harder for him to end that R if he ever wants to. Your actions are painting him into a corner. Change your behavior.
No, do NOT rush to H or his parents to let them know you are changing your behavior. Just change it.
Stop with the drama.
Stop with trying to get H's parents to fix things.
Stop trying to get H to have a lightbulb turn on in his head.
Good job choosing to let go.
Good job identifying boundaries that will help you with that.
(1) Divorce is business. You are quite right to be worried about H taking advantage of you. You should not be making business decisions while you are worried about how he will react. At the same time, in terms of financial/parenting arrangements, NOW is the time that H will be most generous. He will get less and less generous as time goes by. I strongly suggest you get a lawyer and handle ALL details through the lawyer. Do not talk about the stuff with H. Just don't. It is not good for you or your kids. It will NOT help your M to discuss the D terms with H. Let your L handle it. In your place, I would as quickly as possible get a legally binding financial/parenting agreement in place.
(2) Unless it is a legal or safety issue, stop trying to control H's parenting decisions. It is fine to share/report your concerns. It is fine to say "no overnights" and see what happens. But, H will do what he will do. Until you have a legal agreement, fighting his choices is pointless.
(3) There really is no point in demonizing his GF. The A started after you were separated. H was willing to have an A even though he was married with 3 young children. AND he had a deep moral commitment to YOU. GF did not. His is the greater wrong. GF is neither the source of the problems in your M nor the cause of your D.
(4) Take a lot of space, a LOT of space. Use email or text. Discuss business matters only. STOP sharing personal info with H. STOP telling him how he needs to fix himself. STOP using him or his family as any kind of support. You have got to work on independence. Build a strong support network and use it. Aim for DISTANCE and STRENGTH and FUN.
(5) Do not EVER mention the camping trip again except to your L or IC or FC. For one thing, you knew full well that OW would be on the trip and you CHOSE to consent. Do NOT expect H to manage your pain for you. He is not effectively your H, he is not your friend. It is really not his problem that his choice to move forward in a different R hurts you. It is not his job to fix it. It is not his job to manage his life so it works better for you emotionally. It IS HIS JOB to do what is best for the kids. I'm sorry the camping trip hurt you. I can certainly understand why it would. But, the problem that is relevant is that it is TOO SOON and conditions are TOO UNSTABLE to expose the kids to OW. When H says he doesn't understand why, DON'T point to your own pain. Again, it is NOT his problem, really. I know that hurts to hear, but it is true. It is inappropriate for you to expect him to manage your pain. Rather, try something like this: "H, we seem to disagree as to what is healthy for the kids right now. My concern about the involvement of OW in their lives so soon is that it will hurt them. But maybe I'm wrong. Let's go to a FC and develop a strategy that makes sense to us both in terms of the kids' interests."
The best thing you can do is to let go and work on not being angry, to aim for compassion and forgiveness. You are headed that way. Everything WILL be better, one way or another, your life will be better in the future than you ever imagined it could be even pre-bomb.
Do three things for yourself today and tell me what they are.
jks that must have been very difficult to get through! Oldtimer has offered some great suggestions for you that ring true for a lot of our situations. just one thing I would like to add:
It is not his job to manage his life so it works better for you emotionally. It IS HIS JOB to do what is best for the kids.
I think this goes both ways - it is not YOUR job to manage YOUR life so it works better for HIM; it is YOUR job to do what is best for your kids.
(((JKS))) I am right there with you. I have to let H go as well. It almost feels like they are rebelling against us, kind of like we are their mothers. At least that's how I feel. In my H's case his moral compass is broken and it's all about him.
Take care of yourself and your kids and hang in there. We are all right there with you.
oldtimer has given you very good advice.
Thank you, Oldtimer. I have really thrown things off, I know this. My emotions always get the best of me and I struggle so much with this on a daily basis.
Your advice is exactly what I needed to hear. I have to stop being that person. I have to rise above. No matter how hard. I get this.
I will be printing your words out to refer to them often. Thank you.
H stopped his direct deposit from going in to our joint account today. I called him and calmly asked him what his plans were. Seeing as I'm the one that has always been responsible for making sure the bills got paid. He said he was trying this out to see how it worked and was looking through our acct to see how much I would need and he said he would deposit that amount to me to take care of the bills. I said ok. That was it.
My heart just dropped again.
OMG are you serious? Maybe you need a separation agreement or something. If he doesn't handle the bills, how is he to know what is or is not needed. This is obviously a control issue for him.
I honestly think its just one more way for him to slowly detach a little more. It was bound to happen sooner or later. Things are going to get worse, I'm afraid. A lot of "firsts" that I'm facing one right after the other. I think that's why I'm emotionally so unstable because I've obviously never been through this before and it's instinct to want to fight it.
That's why I opened my own checking account and savings account just in case H decides to bail on me. It hasn't happened yet, and he hasn't even mentioned it. I think it would have been nice on your H's part if he would have let you know he was planning on doing it rather than waiting for you to find out on your own. That's why I think it is more than detaching. If he just wanted to detach why couldn't he have discussed his plans with you before actually doing it?
That's why I opened my own checking account and savings account just in case H decides to bail on me. It hasn't happened yet, and he hasn't even mentioned it. I think it would have been nice on your H's part if he would have let you know he was planning on doing it rather than waiting for you to find out on your own. That's why I think it is more than detaching. If he just wanted to detach why couldn't he have discussed his plans with you before actually doing it?
A while ago I did open my own separate one as well. Even though I don't make much, I do make something and I feel now, more than ever, that I just want to keep it to myself.
And I agree with you on him not letting me know before he did it. This is where his communication issues arise. This is how he goes through life. I actually thought this very same thing and the old me would have gotten angry and said something about it. But then that's me using my anger to deal with the situation. It hasn't been helping my situation in the past and it has to be my 180 now. I can ask him over and over, why didn't you just tell me? And his response will always be, I don't know. That's just his mode of thinking.
Who knows if he's really working on it or not. I can't focus on him anymore. Life lessons.
JKS, your situation sounds very similar to mine except for the fact that there are no children or OW involved. But the way your H is acting reminds me of mine very much. I know how you re feeling about losing your best friend. I feel the same way. He's the one I want to tell everything to yet, I can't anymore.
I've been giving him his space and not contacting him. We were supposed to meet up yesterday to go over financial stuff and he said he would call me. I never got the call. So, I get an email asking what happened to the meeting and that I should have called him because he is very busy. I told him I was giving him his space and that he said he was supposed to call me. He's the one who wanted this, so why should I remind him about meeting to discuss our financial stuff? Isn't that what a WIFE is supposed to do? He doesn't want a WIFE anymore, so I am just letting him be.
In any case, I'm OK when I don't hear from him...I'm trying to move on and focus on me. But as soon as I hear from him, my heart sinks. I would love for him to realize that he's throwing our marriage away and want to work it out, but I don't see that happening. So, I have my hobbies/friends/family to keep me busy as well as still trying to find employment. It's alot to take all at once.
I don't have any advice. I'm still dealing with this myself. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone. I know it feels that way..believe me, I know. But there are people here that understand how you feel. And hopefully, that pit of despair that we are all feeling will eventually subside.
Every time you do any of those things, you push him firmly into OWs arms, and, especially by involving his parents, you make it much harder for him to end that R if he ever wants to. Your actions are painting him into a corner. Change your behavior.
Oldtimer, could you elaborate more on this?? Mostly the part about making it hard for him to end his R with OW if he ever wants to...
Unimaginable, thank you. It is good to know that people do know how I feel and I'm not the only one going through it. I'm sorry that any of us have to go through this level of pain.
Oldtimer, I just remembered that you asked me to list three things that I was going to do for myself today...
I blogged. I know that seems weird but it's part of my work. By posting more pictures, I get more traffic flow on my blog which creates more interest for potential future clients. I haven't blogged since December.
I genuinely played with my kids today. Didn't just watch them. I played make-believe with them and gave them my full attention. On top of that, we went to a children's museum today and both of my older children were having major behavior issues which I would normally start to freak out and just get angry with them. I totally and completely kept my cool and validated their feelings and I felt like it really turned things around in a more positive direction. (This is something that needs to be consistent from me. Parenting is hard. It's 24/7 patience.)
Then later tonight I plan to put my kids to bed early and read.
I hope that's what you meant...
I read my entire thread from start to finish last night. It reveals quite a lot about me.
I am a super emotional person. I have been way up and way down and quickly. I let H's actions affect me too much.
Accuray, reading over all of your advice is making even more sense now than it did then. Maybe my DB'ing isn't over?? Ugh, I know, it's like make up your mind, girl!!
The reason I feel that H could very well not be a 100% sure about his decision is because look at me. I have said so many different things depending on the day. And when I was saying it, I was sure that was what I wanted.
And when I was DB'ing my best, H was coming around much more than ever before.
So my 180's...
I'm losing my anger.
Smiling and "acting as if" when I'm in H's presence.
No pursuing and R talk.
No crying.
And I'm going to put my energy into...
Being a patient and present mother.
Building my business.
Keeping things clean and put away around the house.
Exercising.
Spiritual reflection and prayer.
Reading self-help books.
I am so grateful that I have these forums to come to. To say that they are a lifesaver is an understatement. They are a lifeline. Giving me direction when I otherwise wouldn't have it.
Thank you to everyone who posts here. Words cannot express my gratitude.
I have re-read my thread several times from the beginning, and I always get more out of what people posted to me. The first time through there are certain things that resonate with you that you'll absorb, and other things you won't. The next time you're farther along and different things will start to make sense. I'm glad a re-read was helpful for you. Your situation is very difficult, jks, no one will tell you it's not. Unfortunately no one can fix it for you, you just have to find your way through, and that's exactly what you're doing.
Accuray
Maybe I should go back through my old threads, too. I have been feeling pretty discouraged lately. Thanks for the inspiration, JKS. : )
I genuinely played with my kids today. Didn't just watch them. I played make-believe with them and gave them my full attention. On top of that, we went to a children's museum today and both of my older children were having major behavior issues which I would normally start to freak out and just get angry with them. I totally and completely kept my cool and validated their feelings and I felt like it really turned things around in a more positive direction. (This is something that needs to be consistent from me. Parenting is hard. It's 24/7 patience.)
Just imagine if every parent could have the level of understanding of what it means to be patient and engaged and to actively validate, as you have learned! With practice I'm sure it will become more consistent for you. This will certainly not only help your relationship with your kids, but also, hopefully, with your H.
Every time you do any of those things, you push him firmly into OWs arms, and, especially by involving his parents, you make it much harder for him to end that R if he ever wants to. Your actions are painting him into a corner. Change your behavior.
Oldtimer, could you elaborate more on this?? Mostly the part about making it hard for him to end his R with OW if he ever wants to...
Really? I would have thought it obvious. Your M isn't working for H. He is giving up a lot and going through a lot of pain to try to find a life that works better for him.
His GF could have been in his mind a FWB, a passing fling, someone who is there at a difficult time, whatever.
But, you keep forcing him into a corner in which he swallows YOUR answer: he is doing everything he is doing BECAUSE OF HER, SHE MAKES IT ALL WORTH IT IN HIS MIND, HE THINKS SHE'S HIS SOULMATE, blah blah blah blah blah.
Everytime you force him to affirm that to you, to himself, and now to his parents publicly with you as a witness, geez, you make him MUCH more invested in his R with GF. NOW, he'll look like a shallow idiot if it doesn't work out. NOW, he has in his head that he HAS to make it work with her because SHE is the reason for the D.
This is the line you keep feeding yourself, him, and now his family. OF COURSE the more this goes on the harder it will be for him to leave.
Imagine instead: "Gee H, you are right. This M isn't good for either of us. It isn't about outside people, it is about longstanding problems in our M that go back years. I know it is hard and painful for you to try to find a better life. Who knows where we'll wind up. I can understand how it must be comforting right now to have a close friend to help you through this difficult time."
If that is the narrative, then it is much easier for H to let go of his GF when he is through the rough patch, done with having a FWB, whatever.
So stop pushing your narrative hoping he'll fall to your feet and repudiate it. He won't. Just the opposite.
Instead, give him space to figure out what he wants from his own life and how she fits into it. SHE is not your business. You are separated. You are not in a monogamous R. Ignore her.
And NO, do not go tell the in-laws and H about this. Just LET IT GO and MYOB.
Thank you, oldtimer, for being so frank about this. I need the 2x4's. I need to quit my behavior because it's what got me here in the first place and it isn't going to get me out of it if I continue this way.
I really never looked at it the way you just described so I appreciate you going into detail about it. It makes perfect sense.
I really did print out your last post and have referred to it often. I know where I need to put my focus and I am feeling SO MUCH BETTER these days.
When I found out about H changing his direct deposit yesterday, I was starting to get anxious again and those feelings of losing control were starting to come over me. But I quickly snapped myself out of it and realized this has to happen. I can't expect him to share an account with me forever. And I looked at the positive that he was willing to transfer over the amount of money that he did.
I hope I can keep the positive thoughts going because my situation seems much more manageable when my head is above water. I can do this!!
H sent me a text today saying, Happy Mother's Day, JKS. Our kids are very lucky to have you as their mother.
Had to shed a couple tears for that one. If H only knew that him being so nice to me actually makes it that much harder.
I just responded with a Thank you.
I feel like next time I see H, I may be apologizing for my behavior. But I wanted to keep it short and sweet. Just saying that I'm sorry for the way I've been acting lately and leave it at that.
Thoughts?
Been following through this threat and so much is familiar. Thanks jks for sharing your story and Oldtimer, man, your words are gold to remember, especially about not pushing the WAS into a corner and making the OW more powerful than she really is, becoming a soulmate to make all his pain and unhappiness have worth.
Words to remember and live by.
Thanks.
WofP
"I feel like next time I see H, I may be apologizing for my behavior. But I wanted to keep it short and sweet. Just saying that I'm sorry for the way I've been acting lately and leave it at that. "
NO. That is just more R talk. There is no R for you to work out right now. He is NOT IN THE R with you. Leave him alone. Stick to business.
If you regret your behavior, forgive yourself and behave differently.
Ok, I won't bring anything up.
H texted me today and said, "I have been thinking a lot about what you said when you came over to my parent's house. That, along with this agonizing time away from the kids has really made me slow down and consider a lot of things that I may have taken for granted. I know that I have hurt you in ways that I can't even imagine and I truly am sorry. And as corny or dumb as it sounds, I really am trying to find myself and really trying to not make any more rash decisions. And I truly hope you are feeling better. I really, really hate that I have hurt you so badly."
So he has a heart after all. And just like I said before, I still don't think he's 100% sure about his decision. But I am not going to do anything other than continue with no contact and smiles when I see him for kid exchanges.
I was also going to say not to say anything and to focus on showing your changes through your ACTIONS. Looks like I was a little late on that
BUT! I think the text you received may help you stay on your path working on the great 180's you listed a few posts up. Although he said that he's been thinking a lot about the big talk at his parents', it seems like it would be best to keep up your N/C while he continues to mull that over - it clearly had an effect on him. There is clearly some waffling on his part.
I would probably not respond to that text, either. But, you know him best. Maybe some more experienced folks could chime in on whether a simple "Thanks." to that text or no response would be better.
I have already decided to just not respond. He did ask me about S4's dr. appt today and I put my focus on that. So I did text him but only about S4.
haven't caught up on your entire sitch but read some of the later postings. wow! there are many parallels between our situations. married about the same length of time.. been w/ H a little longer than you have been w/ yours.. young kids..
H and i went to RV and currently doing the post sessions. it's still an up and down battle.... we are not at the point of R. some good things to think written on your thread that made me think as well.. will have to catch up on your entire story!
So yesterday I asked H if he would do me a favor and pick up our S4's blanket that got left at a restaurant we were at yesterday. I live a half hour away from it and I didn't want them to get rid of it because it's his favorite. He said he would.
Then my D1 had a Dr. appt today out by where he lives and he texted me out of the blue and said, "Do you want to come by and pick up S4's blanket after D1's appt?"
I didn't really want to see him and I've been trying to keep my space so I said, "yeah, you can just leave it on the porch." He said, ok.
So after D1's appt I headed over to his parent's house and ran up to the porch and the blanket wasn't there. So I ran back to my car and as I was running back my D6 jumped out of the car and ran to my H who was walking out of the house holding the blanket. And, of course, all the kids were so excited to see him. I, however, was a little frustrated because I wasn't expecting to see him and I've been trying to stay away from him. He caught me off guard.
He came up to me and said, "how are you?" I put on my smile, and said "good." He said, "really?" I said, yes, I am. We had a little small talk about D1's Dr. appt and he talked to the kids for a little bit and held D1. The kids were asking to have a sleepover at his house and we both just kept saying, "soon!" He will get them on Sunday.
Shortly after I left he sent me a text saying, "It was good to see you. I know you wanted to try and avoid it but I'm glad I did. I know I've screwed up a lot. A LOT. I will make things right again I just need time to do so. My family means more to me than anything else."
Is this man confused or what?
I talked to the neighbor that lives across the street from OW today and asked if my H's car has been there lately and she said, yes, almost everyday. I texted her at 8:15 this morning and she said his work car was there. So he obviously slept over.
He is in a big mess. I don't know how he's going to end this with OW. I know he has been with her every chance he can get and I was told that even at work they make it a point to show up to the same calls (they're both cops) so they can see each other. A co-worker had said that when H told him about dating OW, his co-worker said he wasn't surprised. That is a little unsettling.
So what do I do? Do I continue to ignore the texts and give him space? I feel like he has a lot proving to do if this is really what he wants. Which we all know, he could change his mind tomorrow. I feel sorry for him.
Yes, I'd just ignore his texts. It's tough, but he's trying to figure things out. My H told me Monday he wanted a divorce, Wednesday that he was still interested in me and maybe we could work it out, and by Saturday thought that I should just move on and forget about him.
So I get slightly excited when he says something positive, but it just brings me down when he changes his mind. The saying "believe none of what he says" is something you have to take to heart right now. Wait and see what his actions tell you.
I think it would be wise to continue ignoring the texts as you had been. Keep the focus on the kiddos. You'll see him this weekend again, anyway, right?
Actually your H is pretty easy to figure out. Keep your communications to a minimum. However when you do see him, make sure you dress and smell incredible. When you talk to him, act as if he really doesn't matter and that you've moved on. Make every meeting something that will stay on his mind. His ego will take care of the rest.
H still continues to sleepover at OW's. I'm bugged. Just venting.
Sometimes I feel like I'm an idiot for wanting him back. And I know nothing is really going to happen unless I really start to detach completely. Or file. I envision myself really detaching from him and if it weren't for my kids, I think I would be totally fine with it.
However, the kid factor makes it a whole lot more complicated and not as easy to just say "enough!"
It's funny how he says he just needs time to do so... so does that mean you just need time to continue having sex with your girlfriend? You just can't stop? I am in a serious mess. I don't see how this is going to be turned around in a good way. I am 9 months into this separation and I'm still feeling like I'm starting from square one. Very frustrating!
They've been having their PA for a good 5 months now, so do I wait it through? When I think about him having to cut off all ties from her, including quitting his job... I just don't see that happening. And if he can't leave that job then I will always wonder what the hell is going on at work and I shouldn't have to do that. I may very well end up being the one that's miserable in our R. Hard reality to face.
JK I have no wise words of wisdom for you. I just wanted you to know that someone was listening.
I will say this though...having small kiddies is not the only reason you are waiting this through. My children are grown, my H is a serious serial cheater, and liar, BUT I still have not filed. Why??? Because I finally figured out that I needed to work on ME. Even though I did not cause him to cheat, there were obvious reasons he felt he needed to. Until I work on me, there is no reason to do anything. He is going to do what he wants, and he does, and I have moments of nirvana where I don't care. I am not there yet to where it is all the time, but its moving that way.
JK if things are meant to be with your H, then he will do whatever it takes to get back with you. I can tell you that going dark does work.....I have broken ALL contact with H and it tries every now and then to communicate. I am not sure how I feel about him, or if I could ever forgive all he has done, so for now, I am concentrating heavily on me, until I can what I want and need.
I know you still love your H.....its sad but we probably all do on here. And God knows my H has done things, and is still doing things that are cruel and hurtful. What keeps me going is remembering that he is the father of my 2 fantastic children, and that at one time, he was a wonderful husband to me. I will not become bitter and cruel and react to the things he is choosing to do at this moment.
Please keep your chin up, know that the rainbow always comes after the storm, and all will work out.....
Big Hugs coming your way chicka!
(((JKS)))
I am with you. I keep thinking that they have only been "friends" for maybe 4-5 months and the "PA" has maybe been going for 3-4 months. It's discouraging. It's heartbreaking. But just keep in mind they are not thinking clearly. And even though my H doesn't want to be married to me any longer, he sure isn't letting me get very far.
Also please note that last night at our parenting class, the last item the speaker addressed was dating too soon after the divorce. She explained that when we are in a long marriage, we become intertwined and become a team, no longer two individuals. When we split or divorce, we go back to being individuals, but part of us is missing so we need to take time to rediscover who we are as individuals and repair ourselves, otherwise we just carry baggage into the next relationship which is destined to fail. (I saw H wanted to just fall through the floor). So we are doing the work we need to do while our WAH's are just setting themselves up for misery.
I hope that makes you feel a bit better. It worked for me.
Well said W&H! Well said.
Also please note that last night at our parenting class, the last item the speaker addressed was dating too soon after the divorce. She explained that when we are in a long marriage, we become intertwined and become a team, no longer two individuals. When we split or divorce, we go back to being individuals, but part of us is missing so we need to take time to rediscover who we are as individuals and repair ourselves, otherwise we just carry baggage into the next relationship which is destined to fail. (I saw H wanted to just fall through the floor). So we are doing the work we need to do while our WAH's are just setting themselves up for misery.
I hope that makes you feel a bit better. It worked for me.
Yes, yes, yes. Thank you for sharing this.
Thank you, W&H. It is very true. I do feel better about myself knowing that I'm not seeking out happiness through others. Which was one of H's complaints about me from the beginning. So it's quite comical that he is now seeking out happiness through this OW. And the fact that he's still so confused as to what he wants is telling me that he hasn't found true happiness.
Just like he said in his text, "I'm trying to find myself."
I'm realizing that I need to stop trying to look in to the future and trying to figure out how this is all going to play out. That can tear a person down quickly because there's just no way to see it for what it really is and you easily start to see the worst in it.
Still really bugged that he's continuing to be with her every chance he gets. Sometimes I wish I were a fly on the wall, so I could hear what he says to her. I wonder if she knows he's thinking the things that he's been telling me lately. She couldn't have possibly thought that her R with him was really going to last forever.
They are blinded right now... just waiting for reality. Seems like it's already starting to set in even just a little. I may be seeing H today at my S4's pre-school program. So we'll see how that goes.
I love my life!! LOL!
I know how you feel. Just can't believe H would replace me so quickly. But H said he's trying to sort out his head and find happiness.
I wish he would have just bought a motorcycle.
Jks - I know exactly what you're going through. But let me tell you this...your H has to go through this. It [censored] that he's going through it with the skank, though. (My personal favorite name for my H's OW. LOL)
He is blinded right now. Which is why you have to focus on you, and being the best you that you can be. Mr. Bond has it right...
Actually your H is pretty easy to figure out. Keep your communications to a minimum. However when you do see him, make sure you dress and smell incredible. When you talk to him, act as if he really doesn't matter and that you've moved on. Make every meeting something that will stay on his mind. His ego will take care of the rest.
I've done this almost everyday for most of the last 5 months. I promise you...they notice.
I know how you feel. Just can't believe H would replace me so quickly. But H said he's trying to sort out his head and find happiness.
I wish he would have just bought a motorcycle.
You and me both!!
I've done this almost everyday for most of the last 5 months. I promise you...they notice. [/quote]
I'm going to have to catch myself up on your sitch.
At least then I could enjoy the motorcycle. Lol!
Actually your H is pretty easy to figure out. Keep your communications to a minimum. However when you do see him, make sure you dress and smell incredible. When you talk to him, act as if he really doesn't matter and that you've moved on. Make every meeting something that will stay on his mind. His ego will take care of the rest.
I've been thinking a lot about what you said, Mr. Bond... how my H is pretty easy to figure out. What exactly do you mean by that? I know it may be obvious but I'm coming to find that outsiders are seeing things a lot differently than I do and I always appreciate a different perspective.
H did come to S4's pre-school program and he was nice. I was a little stand-offish. Only because I don't want to be too friendly because it just gets my hopes up... but I wasn't mean. It is a hard thing to know how to just "be" around him.
I hate that I don't trust him. After the program was over and he walked the kids and I out to our car, I pulled out and drove away and saw in my rear view mirror that instead of him getting in his car and driving away... he walked right back into the building. Now why would he do that? It gave me the weirdest feeling like, was OW in there and I didn't see her? And they were trying to hide it? Seriously. Who wants to live this way? It is torture!!
Then I took the kids to a b-day party out where we used to live with some old friends and dropped them off and took D1 to go get lunch. The entire time I was at the restaurant I was scanning the place and the parking lot to for H and OW. I just know one of these days I'm going to run into them together and I will have no idea how to react. I couldn't just relax. And to make it worse there was 4 cops sitting right next to me one of them being a very attractive female officer and I kept looking at her and wanting to scream at her.
Like, how many men have you slept with from work? AHHHHH!! Just hits too close to home. It was hard for me to see that. It really is better that I don't live close to H because I don't even think about those things when I'm up where I live. I'm too on edge in our old town.
Just some things going through my head today. I don't know how I'm ever going to learn to detach. I think when I don't see him and I'm doing my own thing I'm fine but I will never not have to see him. He will always be around and as soon as I do, all the feelings come rushing back. How do people do this?
Just saw that H ran a marathon today and earlier this week he received a star award at work at a work gala... all posted to his sister's FB page. I had to cry. I am missing out. It [censored]. I want to be there for him through these big events.
I need to get a job. Sitting around all day trying to think of things to do is really getting to me. My L told me not to but I have got to get myself out there or I'm going to crack!
FB is evil!
I decided that it's not in my best interest to check 'up' on my H, so I am working on all those ways that I would normally see what he's up to.
Blocking works well
One thing that may help regarding the OW. OW will lose her shine at some point (won't be so fun when the R arguments come up). You can't control his actions. You can, however, control your thoughts. I know the twinges are there, but think 'this is the way he chooses to behave. It has no reflection on me. Just him.'
Get a job, get moving, get reading, do something other than sitting around all day
If L said not to get a job, then don't get a job. There are plenty of ways to use your time productively.
OW was at the Gala with H as well. They came together and left together. I am so sick of this. What is this man doing? Gallivanting all over with her and in front of his work buddies. He must be so proud of himself.
I'm living in a state of endless confusion.
H will be getting the kids tomorrow. First time in three weeks. It will be nice to get a break but not so nice to get them back and have to hear about OW.
Sometimes I just really wish I had an OM to really get my mind off of him and show him that I am worth something to someone. And, if nothing else, to move on. But it just isn't possible for me right now.
Emotionally I think I may be getting there. I don't cry as long when I hear about things and sometimes I don't cry at all. This is good because before I was dwelling on these things for days. I basically just post here and move on.
Maybe I should join a sport's team? H would never expect me to do that. A volleyball team or something. That could be way fun. Any other ideas that would help me meet people and wouldn't involve a lot of money would be greatly appreciated.
Still would love to hear from Mr. Bond as well...
I know you're hurt, but read your post above.
It's all about him.
What are you doing for you? Remember, the things you do for you should be done FOR you, not to get him to notice.
You make an effort to look nice to boost your confidence, not in hopes that H will notice.
You GAL to have a life separate from H, to keep you occupied, productive, confident, not so H will see it.
If you can't get a job, volunteer somewhere.
All you've written suggests whatever changes you are making are for H to notice, not that you've actually changed.
Is that true?
If so, you are wasting a wonderful opportunity to become the woman you were meant to be.
Sometimes I just really wish I had an OM to really get my mind off of him and show him that I am worth something to someone.
You don't need anyone to prove your worth. You are a great person all by yourself. Believe in yourself JKS, this is your life. Take ahold of it and make the best of it.
I know what you're saying, Labug. I am putting a lot of focus on H because I am missing him in a major way. I have had our kids for 3 straight weeks with hardly any breaks at all. These are the times that I long for adult interaction, especially with my H. It hurts to hear of him having the time of his life and spending every waking moment with OW when I'm here taking care of our 3 children and trying to keep my head above water.
I would love to have something... anything. It has just been hard lately with having my kids so much and not having a lot of time for me. It has been stressing me out a lot. So I'm grateful for the break for the next couple of days.
I hate it because OW doesn't even compare when it comes to our kids. She has no idea how real life is with them and what really is involved with being there for them 24/7. My H knows this and yet he still seems to think that I lack so much. I have A LOT of responsibilities with them there is no doubt about that.
And it hurts a lot to know that I carried these babies, I went through pregnancy, having the morning sickness, the aches and pains, the hormonal changes, giving birth, postpartum depression, nursing, sleepless nights... the list goes on and on... I invested all this time and gave of myself to have this family for us. And now OW gets to swoop right in and take it all. She has done nothing except focus on herself and her career for all these years. She's independent and wonderful and fun and so therefore she is the greater prize to be had.
I just feel like I am worth nothing. H has made that very apparent with his behavior. Yes, I've made mistakes and I'm not proud of those things but all I ever wanted was a family. I lost myself and now I'm losing the person I loved the most in this whole world. Plus, the ability to have my kids all the time. Instead of having a family, I've gained heartache.
I want to GAL. I want to so badly, it's just that being a single mother takes more of my time than anything else. And on top of all of that... I have no money. So, yes, I have to get creative with the type of activities we do. I continue to feel very trapped.
Sorry for the pity party... this is just the kind of pain that I feel on a daily basis and I'm trying to let it go. But it isn't easy. These things hit me at my core, especially when it involves my children.
I just know that OW is pressuring my H to stay with her because she has to know that he is having second thoughts because he hasn't filed yet. If he wanted this, he would have done it already. I was also told that she was just waiting for one of the guys at work to become available so she could move right in and take her opportunity. She was so unhappy in her marriage and her way of getting attention from guys at work was to continually text them about random things on a regular basis. Well, it worked!
And, no, I'm not saying that my H and I had issues because of her but the timing was absolutely ridiculous. My H and I were taking a break. And she took advantage of that. She filed for D and moved down the street from my H only a month after we separated. We had no chance from the get go.
Everyone has marriage problems. Some worse than others, but when you involve a third party, the chances of things getting better are even slimmer. And she's not just a fling. She is his best friend on top of being his lover. I want to believe that this is just a phase and that H will eventually come around, but part of me thinks that she may never let him go. She has the personality to hold on for dear life because she's been wanting to be with him for a long time.
This is why I feel having an OM could be the only thing to get me to really start to move on. Does it feel right? No. But sometimes it seems like the only answer to get me to stop looking at my H as the only one for me.
I know a lot of you would disagree. I'm just hurting right now.
Jks, I agree with La Bug that you need to focus on doing things for you, and not so your H will notice. I am going to suggest volunteering as well since your L advised you not to work. It's a great way to get out of the house and it costs nothing.
Also, since your budget is tight, look for free or very low cost GAL ideas - check your local newspaper's weekend section for free museums, shows, etc. Lots of churches have free Mother's Day/Night out activities, which often include free childcare. I would say find one or two you feel comfortable with and start getting out. You don't have to participate in other church stuff if that's not your thing. But who doesn't want to take advantage of free childcare? LOL
if you really want to break them up, send the kids over as much as possible when they are together. at six, four, and one, they will be a handful. nothing stresses out a relationship more than someone else's kids. trust me.
I know you're hurting and you're lonely and this situations su*ks and is truly unfair. But it will get better.
What is really concerning is you are so unhappy because you're not being validated by your H so you want another man to validate you. That problem has nothing to do with your marriage or your H, that is squarely yours. Please be aware of that and find help.
Have you read Codependent No more? If not it might be helpful to help you see your patterns. Getting this sorted out will make you a happier person and able to have healthy relationships.
You're right, 9 months of this and I do just want to feel loved. I have felt so alone and so trapped it has been so unbearable. I'm so tired of being sad, lonely, and unwanted.
I will look into those things you mentioned, Ro. I am attending a photographer's retreat this upcoming weekend which will be the best thing ever. Meeting new people and reconnecting with some old friends. Plus, feeling creatively energized will bring me back to where I need to be.
So, yes, H will have the kids quite a bit more. (Although, I do think the time away from his kids has really given him some perspective. So it may have been a good thing to keep them as long as I did.)
I am having a rough one today. Wow...
Hi jks,
i am really new here. I just read your posts though and i feel so connected to the pain, confusion, anger and hurt you are feeling. our stories are similar in the sense that the OW swooped in when we were at a low, that she first became his 'best friend', that she will hold on because she has wanted him for so long. Twins seperated at birth?!?!
i just want to say that i understand what you are feeling. especially the pain of the broken family. i feel the same about my kids, my life. Maybe there is some comfort in knowing we are not alone.
I know you can get better advice from others that have been here longer and that have had some experience in DBing, but one thing i can say because its something i have really been trying to do as well is focus on YOU and your beautiful three gifts that you have and that need you more than ever now.
your friend..
H just came to pick up the kids. I was happy and nice. Tried to dress and smell my best! LOL!
He asked a lot of questions about the retreat I'm going to this weekend and about the kids. Once he got them all buckled in their seats he looked at me and said, "thank you." I said "you're welcome." And walked inside.
I miss him. These types of interactions DO NOT help me. He is a good person and I know this. I've always known this. So for us to be cordial and nice to each other just makes it that much harder. I know it may help him because then he thinks that I'm ok. Which is what he wants. But I just downright miss him.
Time to GAL. Thanks for letting me vent...
JKS,
I know you are really hurting, and I know how hard it is to have 3 young kids all by yourself, it is completely and utterly exhausting! You feel trapped when you have no adult interaction -- I hear you, believe me I do.
I thought you said that OW had been on the prowl with more guys at work than just your H -- if that's true (and even if it's not), the bloom WILL come off the rose. There is nothing more special about their relationship than the one you had with H.
A few suggestions for you:
1) You are making "low value statements" about yourself. If you make those statements, or if you feel that way, it becomes self-reinforcing, as others then see you as low-value too. You need to change your vocabulary and make high value statements about yourself. You are a great mother, you are a great wife, it is H's loss that he's missing out, etc. etc. If you look at yourself this way, it also becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy, as others will see you that way too, it's infectious.
2) Scaredsilly is right, going 50/50 on custody with H is going to be good all the way around. Having 3 little kids in their relationship will make things more real, particularly when the kids are challenging. The flip side is you get relief and time to GAL. I would do week on / week off, or every 3 days, or whatever you can work out.
3) In terms of low cost GAL, look for volunteer activities, meetups, and sports teams.
Sending positive thoughts your way!
Accuray
Accuray!! So good to have you back! It's been a while. I hope things are going well for you and your W.
Yes, OW has a major texting problem with men. She seeks out attention this way. And she is one of the only female officers in the department so therefore she naturally gets a lot of attention. I heard that she was just waiting for someone to become available from one of the guys that she works very closely with. So, yes, once the reality of my children being there day in and day out sets in, then maybe H won't look as appealing.
You are right about the "low value" statements. I have been having a rough day. The build up of having my kids for so long and not having any time to myself has really been wearing on me. And, like I said before, H just continues on with life. Running a marathon and going to a work Gala with OW. It is really painful.
Bustingout, I will have to catch up on your sitch. Does sound like we were twins separated at birth!! What in the world??? So sorry you're going through this too...
So now's my chance. I'm so excited about this photography retreat this weekend. It is seriously what I need in a major way.
I'm also going to seriously look in to volunteering. That is such a great way to get out and do something for others. Perfect self-esteem booster!! Thanks to all of you for your guidance... these forums are very much my strength right now.
I will have better things to post later this week, I just know it!
JKS,
I also want to comment on what Labug said -- yes, it is not good to rely upon H to validate you, or in his absence to date someone else so that person can validate you. It's obviously better if you can self-validate (thus my comment about consciously avoiding low value statements and always trying to make high-value ones)
That said, companionship is something that humans "need", so obviously it's not realistic to be 100% self-validating. Like many things in life, it's a tradeoff, SOME of your validation MUST come from yourself, but I don't think it's realistic to expect to get NONE from anyone else.
The trap that many people fall into is having a reflected sense of self, or deriving their entire self-worth from the reaction of their spouse. It's not good to live there, but it's not good to be a hermit on the other end of the spectrum either, who needs nothing from anybody.
I'm going to say this, and it's probably controversial on the DB board, but I did feel better by talking to women who I considered to be friends when I was at my worst. Now obviously you have to be careful and realistic -- you don't want to start an EA with a married person, and you don't want to give a single person the wrong idea if you're just looking for some connection and they are looking for a serious relationship. If you do know someone, however, where you can keep it completely platonic, they understand and you understand, then I think it can be helpful to forge that connection. Sure it's a crutch, and sure it can lead to trouble, you just need to go into it eyes-wide-open.
It worked for me, and I do have to tell you it felt good to have other women telling me I am a good husband, and that I did not deserve to be cheated on. Ironically, the women I spoke to were more angry at my W's behavior than my male friends were.
I share this with you knowing full well that it's controversial, may be non-DB, but also that it did help to get me through.
In terms of my sitch (since you asked
) it's going ok. Ironically once I had done a 180 on all W's bomb complaints, it turns out she didn't want the 180's she thought she wanted. You reach an equilibrium in a relationship for a reason -- there are personality and interpersonal forces that pull you there, and the cycles become self-reinforcing. That "place" has a strong pull in our relationship, and to stay away from it takes effort. I'm still committed to making that effort. My "love language" is words of affirmation, and W has told me that it makes her feel badly to "speak" that love language, so she's not going to do it. That puts me in a tough spot, as when other women speak that language to me, it makes me feel really good and makes the relationship look less attractive by contrast. I can see this happening to me when it happens.
My challenge is to accept that W will not speak that language, and as Labug suggests, find ways to need it less.
Accuray
Accuray,
I do actually have some "gay" guy friends that have been asking to hang out. Just haven't been able to make our schedules work thus far. But I totally get what you're saying and I think having them around would very much help me for the time being. And no strings attached whatsoever!! LOL!
H and I talked briefly today about the issues our tenants have been having with our house. I'm just starting to feel like our house is somewhat turning into a money pit. Or maybe our tenants are being more high maintenance than usual, IDK.
After we went over some things that needed to be addressed. I later told him, "oh yeah, and my car needs to be registered this month :("
He said, "and the tail light needs to be fixed huh." I said, yes, yikes!
He told me that he would look into getting a new tail light for me and he would help with the registration if I would print out some updated pictures of the kids for his work (I'm a photographer). He doesn't even have a picture of D1.
My first thought was, I don't really want to give him pictures because those are things that are MY talents which he has chosen not to have a part of his life. It's like, why don't you have OW go take pictures of the kids and use those? Oh, because she doesn't know how? Oh, I'm sorry... can't help you there.
But, of course, I said... sure. Not worth getting in a fight over and seems totally miniscule since he is willing to help me pay for my car to get registered but I feel like he does take advantage of the fact that I have amazing pictures of the kids and he wants them.
It makes me upset because he said last year in October when he went to his aunt's house in Wisconsin (I was not invited), he was looking around at all of her pictures of her family... (which I took) and thought, these are great pictures but I don't really miss her or feel like I need her in my life.
So if he doesn't need me in his life then he can get his own pictures taken of the kids. Just feeling like he takes me for granted in that way. He gets bugged that I like to take pictures all the time but then when we look back at all the things I've captured throughout our kids' childhood, well maybe its not such a bad thing after all?? And then he says to me, if you have any cool pictures of the kids, will you send them to me? (um, no, I won't)
I'm only venting here because these are things I wish I could say to him but won't.
I get that JKS. H does that to me. Asks me for things when it is convenient and benefits him. Like texting him directions. Or asking me to put his sunglasses in my purse when we are indoors. Or asking me to send him photos/videos of the kids from my iPhone. No No NO! You don't want me in your life, remember????
It hurts. And they just don't get it or they just don't care.
"He told me that he would look into getting a new tail light for me and he would help with the registration if I would print out some updated pictures of the kids for his work"
When he says something like that, you should have said. That's okay I've got it taken care of. Show him that you don't need him. Guys hate that.
yes, but these are things only you can give and some day he may remember that and miss them? IMO, it's your opportunity to show what you have and the OW does not.
i keep doing wifely things for my husband even though we're apart. i'm hoping, as he comes to his senses, he'll remember how hard it would be to do without me. just saying...
What he needs to do is MISS the things you do. If you keep giving them to him, he won't be able to do that. I would suggest that when you get a really good photo of your D, email it to him without him asking for it and write a note saying "thought you'd appreciate this" And that's all. You can send him little things here and there but only on your time.
"He told me that he would look into getting a new tail light for me and he would help with the registration if I would print out some updated pictures of the kids for his work"
When he says something like that, you should have said. That's okay I've got it taken care of. Show him that you don't need him. Guys hate that.
This is EVER so true. I am a very independent person and H HATES that about me. I think that is part of the reason why he is running after OW. She is needy and more than willing to accept his help. I am not. I help him far more than he has ever helped me.
What he needs to do is MISS the things you do. If you keep giving them to him, he won't be able to do that. I would suggest that when you get a really good photo of your D, email it to him without him asking for it and write a note saying "thought you'd appreciate this" And that's all. You can send him little things here and there but only on your time.
I like this A LOT!!!
"I am a very independent person and H HATES that about me. I think that is part of the reason why he is running after OW. She is needy and more than willing to accept his help. I am not. I help him far more than he has ever helped me."
if he hates your independence and you continue to be independent, won't he continue to hate that about you? won't he continue to run after the OW who is showing him a different side? i'm confused as to the logic?
Yes, I know. But I don't want to change that side of me. That is one thing I am not going to compromise. I am very proud of my independence. H is extremely co-dependent and he often likes to act like my father. I want a husband, not a dad.
Not that I would not accept help if I needed it, but I like to do things for myself. That is part of what makes me, me.
i'm very independent, too. but there was an element of my independence that was almost uncompromising and harsh. that is the part my H hated. i'm still independent but trying to soften it a bit.
"He told me that he would look into getting a new tail light for me and he would help with the registration if I would print out some updated pictures of the kids for his work"
When he says something like that, you should have said. That's okay I've got it taken care of. Show him that you don't need him. Guys hate that.
But how do I take care of it if I don't have any money to do it? I do run a small business doing photography, but not enough to be able to afford a new tail light and register my car. And my L told me not to get a job.
Otherwise, I would have never brought up the fact that my car needed to be registered. I would have just done it myself.
TRAPPED!! In every way. So frustrating!!
Mr. Bond... do you mind reading back a couple posts? I had a question for you regarding something you said about my H. Thanks so much!
jks,
Okay I think I found the post you were referring to.
First off, is there any reason why your L told you not to get a job? Does he expect you to be dependent on your H even though he left? Doesn't sound right.
Another thing I would suggest is that since you are a photographer, maybe start selling some prints online on zazzle or cafepress. You can set up a free account and sell things on there to get some income. So this way you don't really have a "job" per se. If you already have prints done, then sell them at a Garage Sale or an arts and craft fair. Label your things as "Gallery Pieces" and go from there.
About your H being easy to figure it out. It really does seem to me that he isn't done. He says he "forgot" or didn't realize what he had until he left. What you have to do is feed off of that.
When you see him, be sure you look different. Fix up your hair in a new and exciting way. Dress to kill. Give him an image that will stick with him. You have to show him independence as well as be independent of him. Think of Sandy from the movie Grease. Remember at the end when she totally changed her look and attitude? That's when she got everyone's attention.
That's why doing things like giving him a photo when he doesn't ask for it works. You give him little "tastes" of what he is missing to attract. But show him you can live without him.
First off, is there any reason why your L told you not to get a job? Does he expect you to be dependent on your H even though he left? Doesn't sound right.
Because if H files and if I have a job, the child support that he'll be ordered to pay would be less. He told me to continue with my photography business but don't pursue any other kind of work for the time being. So I am still running my business and I do make something, just not a ton right now. I mostly want to save the money I'm making right now for emergencies that may arise... i.e. having to pay for a L if necessary.
On Sunday when H came to pick up the kids he did mention that our flex spending acct for our health insurance was going to be reloaded with a certain amount in July. And also that next January he will be getting a 14% raise at work. I mention this because he almost talks like I will still be in his future. Because these are things you tell your WIFE.
If he was planning on ending things with me then he wouldn't even bother letting me know of these things because 1) I wouldn't be on his health insurance anymore and 2) why would he want to have to pay me more in child support and offer up that information about the raise? Just some observations...
I sort of went on a date tonight. Not what you think, though, people. I was very up front with this guy about my situation and that I was not looking for a R right now. He said he felt the same way because he couldn't imagine having an insta-family right now. He just moved here from New Mexico and was looking for friends in the area. I am not attracted to him at all, but we both love photography and, if anything, its nice to just go out and do something.
He very much made me feel good about myself. I was very open to him about what's going on in my situation and he was happy to listen and give feedback. He doesn't understand why I'm doing what I'm doing. He believes that the trust between me and H has totally been broken and how can that ever be repaired?? I wonder this myself sometimes. But I just have to have faith that whatever is supposed to happen will happen. My heart tells me I still love him and I'm not ready to let go.
But I definitely can see how someone else can appreciate me now. This is my road to detaching. It very much made me feel like my H is a fool for leaving me. And that is the absolute truth. Sorry if its not true to DB. But it definitely gets my mind off of wallowing. I'm sick of wallowing.
I had a good night...
I just spent the last night and this morning (stole a few minutes at work) reading your sitch. Wow. You really impress me with first of all your ability to document what you feel (I could feel what you were writing, the anger, the frustration, the desperation, the WANT TO BE FREE but not yet able to let go completely. And Accuracy, like jks said, your advice was insightful solid and to the point. I cannot believe how similar our husbands actions and words seem. I do not have all the details on my thread yet, but really. I could hear my H’s voice when you spoke about your H’s words. I could see the facial expressions.
I agree with you that A with OW just has to happen. That is what where I am in my sitch right now. I have accepted that I cannot prevent it, control it, talk it away whether through declarations of love, anger, loyalty, kids, history, friendship, wedding vows, etc etc. Nothing will make the OW go away except for her. I have accepted that. This course must be completed before anything can or will be actually DONE. Now that we know that, we need to DROP IT AND LET GO. (easier said than done, but I am here with you).
Mr Bond-I love the advice you gave to jks about he needs to MISS the things you do.
On Sunday when H came to pick up the kids he did mention that our flex spending acct for our health insurance was going to be reloaded with a certain amount in July. And also that next January he will be getting a 14% raise at work. I mention this because he almost talks like I will still be in his future. Because these are things you tell your WIFE.
If he was planning on ending things with me then he wouldn't even bother letting me know of these things because 1) I wouldn't be on his health insurance anymore and 2) why would he want to have to pay me more in child support and offer up that information about the raise? Just some observations...
Well, the FSA could be in reference to the kids. The raise could be him unknowingly reaching out for a response of pride from you. (I said could, this is totally mindreading, I don't know). My H mentioned something very recently about his retirement account doing well. Why would he tell me this? I asked him some questions - do you pick the accounts? He said yes. I said that must feel good to have picked that and to see it doing well. In the past I don't think I would have validated him like that. But he seemed to respond well to that. This may not be helpful to you, but I thought I'd note it here. If the raise is for performance, maybe it wouldn't hurt to mention the next time to you talk to him about things, hey, I wanted to tell you before, congrats on the raise, you must feel really good about that/I'm sure you deserve it for your hard work/etc. Just a thought.
As for the not-dating, I'm glad you're feeling good but I wonder if someone else will be by with a 2x4 shortly for using someone else as the way for you to feel worthy about yourself. I'm not one to talk, as I'm ordering Codependent No More soon. It's good that you feel good and it's good that you are starting to feel like H is a fool, but it shouldn't be because someone else made you feel worthy. You need to make yourself feel worthy. There, that's my toothpick instead of a 2x4.
So, I'm really feeling like I want to say something to H about what he's doing with OW. He dropped off the kids this morning and all he said was, "thanks" with a big smile on his face and left. Then S4 told me that OW was there last night when they were going to bed.
I feel like I'm just a fool sitting here letting my H have an A. Not that I can stop it, but I definitely don't have to continue to be married to someone who is doing this to me. I don't deserve this.
I have serious questions about his texts last week and what he meant by them. I don't understand how he expects me to be ok with his actions and for how long? It just doesn't feel right to sit around and not say anything.
I need help right now because I'm very tempted to call him and start asking questions about his intentions. Anyone??
Don't do it! Leave him alone. All that conversation is going to do is make you feel worse.
-- You cannot convince him that what he's doing is wrong
-- You cannot shame him into changing his behavior
-- You cannot manipulate him into coming back
-- You cannot present an argument that will resonate with him
What can you do? GIVE SPACE.
JKS, do not make that call.
Here's what to do instead: type out or write out what you want to say to him. Journal it, set it aside.
If you keep journaling the same thoughts for a week, think very hard about what you want to say and what you expect to happen in response.
If you can't do it, at the very least wait until tomorrow to make that call, and do something fun for yourself tonight.
Accuray
I did it... I called him. I asked him what his intentions were with us and he said he had to call me back.
He then called me back about 30 min ago and he told me that he is trying to find the best time to end things with OW. He had a good talk with someone at work that is D and the guy told him, that if he had any small desire to still make things work between his W then he needs to end things with OW and give our M a chance.
He said he has been sleeping over at OW's house but he hasn't had sex with her for a while. He also said when he went to the Gala it didn't feel like he was there with his girlfriend. He felt like he was just there with a bunch of work friends. And he knows that OW can tell something is different because he hasn't been mentally present when he's around her.
He said that Mother's Day was really hard for him. I told him that I have been very understanding and I know where he's coming from and I don't want to hold this over his head forever. I know why he did the things he did, I just don't know how much longer I can take hearing about what he's doing with her. It's very painful. And I asked him what he would do if he were in my position?
He said, he hates that he's put me through this and really has no idea how it feels. He wouldn't know what he would do. He basically stated that he felt for a long time that all he wanted was to be with OW and he's now realizing after all is said and done that he's not really done with our marriage at all. He can't follow through with a D. He just has a really hard time talking to me about anything because his first instinct is to avoid.
We ended our conversation happy and light talking about how cute D1 is and all the new things that she's been doing. I feel good right now that things will be ok and I need to continue to have patience. Both he and I realize that there' s a lot of work that needs to be done. I'm ready to do it.
Sorry for not sticking to DB rules. I needed to have this conversation.
My goodness, jks. I'm new here but your post is incredibly hopeful.
You must feel so light inside right now after all the darkness you've been through
WofP
JKS,
H has told you the same thing before a couple of times right? Be very careful with your expectations. It's easy for H to *say* these things, it's much harder to actually *do* what he says. You might want to continue to assume that nothing is going to change, that will save you from the roller coaster ride.
I do believe that one reason H has been avoiding you is he's afraid of the outpouring you're going to give him. He got a taste of that at his parent's house. What are you going to do to pave the road back? How are you going to make it so that being with you is going to be good, and not a shame-session?
Sorry for not sticking to DB rules. I needed to have this conversation.
You don't have to apologize to anyone. It's YOUR sitch -- you know H and what is *right* for you more than anyone. Sometimes you take a gamble and it pays off, other times it doesn't -- that's okay.
I have observed that sometimes you're like a lit fuse -- you get your emotions kicked into high gear and then there's no stopping you -- that fuse burns down and the powder keg blows! What can you do to get a handle on that?
Accuray
I believe you're on the right path. However on your H's part, actions speak louder than words. What can you do to increase that hopefulness on his side?
I am going to continue to let his actions show me. He is most definitely going to have to prove it to me. And I really do think that if he changes his mind again, I'm ready to be done. My date last night made me realize that I really can find a R with someone else. I am worth so much more than this.
One of the biggest reasons that he isn't ending things with her right away, from what he told me, is that he is running a relay with his sister, dad, friends from work and her in three weeks. He said he doesn't want to go through ending things with her and messing up the relay for everyone else because they have to have 12 people to be able to participate and everyone has already paid... $100 per person.
I said, well, can't you find someone else that can run her leg? He said she has gotten so close with everyone on the team and planning the event that he doesn't want to take that away from her. He didn't say this, but I know that he also doesn't want to miss out either especially since his dad and sister are doing it too, otherwise he would drop out.
So I was just talking with a friend and she said, well, this is his chance to really show you. Taking that first step and making a small sacrifice for his family by finding someone else to do this race would be a great way for him to show you and, yet, he still doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings and make things awkward for anyone. My H suffers from the "Nice Guy Syndrome" in a major way.
I feel like its not my place to tell him that he can't do the race or that he needs to find someone else to take her place because then that just shows me being controlling.
Accuray, I do get super emotional, however, I really do think that my H understands why... I even said in our conversation that I'm sorry I get so emotional when I talk to you and he said, you have no reason to apologize. I can't even imagine what you're going through.
Sometimes I feel like hiding emotions, hides the truth. I really have come a long way in suppressing down my anger and not jumping to conclusions with him. I am really trying to keep an open mind but also stay grounded knowing that I have a lot of great qualities to offer someone and if H really can't appreciate that, it now is his loss, not mine.
But as far as getting a handle on it, the only thing that has helped is talking with friends or family about it or posting here. I know I have more work to be done on myself though. I will never forget what got me here and why. It will constantly be a work in progress, I don't want to ever take it for granted again.
Mr. Bond, to answer your question... I think the thing that helps my H the most is when he sees me happy. Smiling, having a good attitude and being playful. Our M really lost the playfulness which is so important in helping people continue to feel "in love." Its something that he hasn't seen in me for a long time and I'm realizing that I hadn't seen it in myself either. It often feels foreign to me to truly laugh and enjoy myself. I'm focusing on this. Putting myself in situations that make me happy and make me feel good and surrounding myself with people that make me feel good.
In fact, when I called him today... I was very upbeat and friendly. I know he misses that in me and it affects him greatly when I do it. So that is one thing I've really been trying to change.
JKS,
I wasn't referring to getting emotional per se, I was referring to being impulsive. You seem to make a decision to do something, obsess about it, and then can't resist. I'm just wondering if you tried "sleeping on it" once in a while if you'd be better served in your relationships.
WRT this:
One of the biggest reasons that he isn't ending things with her right away, from what he told me, is that he is running a relay with his sister, dad, friends from work and her in three weeks. He said he doesn't want to go through ending things with her and messing up the relay for everyone else because they have to have 12 people to be able to participate and everyone has already paid... $100 per person.
I said, well, can't you find someone else that can run her leg? He said she has gotten so close with everyone on the team and planning the event that he doesn't want to take that away from her. He didn't say this, but I know that he also doesn't want to miss out either especially since his dad and sister are doing it too, otherwise he would drop out.
That is a crazy excuse not to break off an affair IMO.
You tried to "solve" that for him, and he gave you another excuse. I guarantee that if you could have solved that one there would have been another excuse.
I agree with Mr. Bond that what he said is a positive indicator, but I'm afraid for you that you're going to get your hopes up and H is going to continue to fence-sit. Let's be realistic, he could easily move out *now*, still be friendly with her and run the race with her if he wanted to. Continuing to sleep there is not a requirement to keep her on the relay team. He could also break up with her now and STILL run the race with her if she wanted to stay on the team -- that's up to her! If it means that much to her she'll do it anyway!
JKS, it's a poor excuse and that's what concerns me. All I'm saying is don't get your hopes up that anything will change until he proves it with action. Continue to DB, continue to act-as-if, continue to be happy and upbeat. That's all you can do, and that's all you can control.
I'm so sorry you're on this roller coaster, but please remember, believe nothing they say and only half of what they do.
Accuray
So now everyone I talk to is telling me that this is insane for my H to expect me to be ok with this. He's basically telling me that this race and OW's feelings are more important than me and my feelings. Because we all know in the mean time that they're going to continue sleeping with each other and they're going to continue hanging out. Kind of a slap in the face...
So now I'm supposed to continue on and not say anything about it? I can't imagine how he would feel if someone was doing this to his own daughter. I feel like I don't know how to handle this no matter what direction I go. If I don't say anything, then I'm allowing him to treat me like scum and basically becoming a doormat. If I do say something then I'm pressuring him too much.
WHAT IN THE WORLD DO I DO?
Accuray, I know you may not believe this but I really have come a long way. There have been a lot of instances where I had a strong urge to do or say something and I totally went against it and kept my cool. I would either write in my journal, post here or call someone to just vent about it. Believe me, I think if I had really said everything that I wanted to when I wanted to, H may not be making the decision he's making right now.
I will not ever proclaim to be the best DB'er... ever. But reading the book and being on this forum has helped me far more than anything. I have tried my hardest to apply the principles to my situation and at times I know I've failed. But I've had a much better understanding as to why H does what he does and I've given him so much more space than I think I would have ever been able to do.
--------
My brother just texted me and said that I have something wrong with me. That my H just misses his kids and is just playing me.
I feel like I don't even want to live this life anymore. The amount of anger, sadness and confusion that my H continues to impose on me is really starting to make me feel like I may not be able to go on much longer for him.
Then I would tell him that you are extremely uncomfortable with this arrangement and if he is willing to sacrifice his family for the sake of a race, then he is disrespecting you. He's going to say that you are being unreasonable, etc. But don't you back down.
Before he gets into it, tell him that you will not be disrespected any longer. You're not going to tell him what to do, but you know what you will not take.
I think so that I'm able to say exactly what I want to say and to avoid getting super emotional about it, I will write him an email.
I really am not ok with this. I think that I have been patient enough.
Well, I sent H the email and told him to call me tonight after he read it. He called me and basically he is still on the fence about everything. He has such a funny way about telling me things and then later I pick his brain a little more and it starts to come out differently. I am constantly asking him to clarify what he just said now because I am so tired of thinking I know what he means.
So, yes, Accuray... you are absolutely correct. I never doubted you, to be honest. I just needed my H to clarify because I am not going to listen to him say these things and get my hopes up when I know full well that he is "showing" me otherwise.
The race obviously is not the reason he is waiting so long to end the R with OW. But I mentioned to him that he very much made it sound like that was his driving force. He said, I can see how it would have come across that way. Communication issues... they never cease!!
I asked him if he felt like he was "in love" with her and he said sometimes he does. He said he does feel very strongly for her still. He said he has no idea what he's doing and he knows this isn't fair to me.
I asked him about the Gala and how he mentioned that he didn't feel like he was there with his girlfriend. What did he mean by that? He said, because he feels like I am still a part of him. That we have so much history together that its hard for him to put that feeling towards someone else. And it's also one of the reasons he can't file the papers for D.
I told him, it seems like nothing is going to happen unless "I" do something... meaning if I file. Ultimately, is that what you want me to do? He said, no.
He did mention that he feels like he's now starting to see things more clearly and he is now able to see a future with me. Whereas before it was impossible for him. He says there are little things here and there that remind him of me and he misses those things but doesn't know if that's enough for him to want to work on a R with me. He's still so afraid that things won't work but, yet, he can now envision in his head that it could work. Babysteps on that, I guess.
He gets confused on whether he is missing his kids or missing his family or is he really missing me? I think he just wants so badly for something more to be there with me and because he's still so attracted to OW and enjoys her company so much, how does he just end it with her? This is why I'm constantly saying, he has made THE biggest mess. No married man should be in this position. He should never have even allowed himself to become as close with her as he did, even as friends. But what can I do about it now?
The whole time we were talking, he was very nice and we were very cordial with each other. He had to go back to work but told me he would call me tomorrow. He also mentioned that he knows OW wants to talk with him because she can tell that something is up. I asked him what he was going to say to her and he said, I don't know. I'm guessing this is going to be happening tomorrow.
I did also ask him if he was going to continue sleeping with her and he said, I don't know.
Isn't this just lovely? GAL, jks, GAL. This still could not end very pretty for me.
That's a pretty intense conversation, just a few quick thoughts from me - Remember to believe none of what he says and only half of what he does. Even if he's saying things that sound good to you - he needs to back it up with action. This is a really good time for you to be prepared to declare what YOU NEED in a functional R/M. Unless you would take him back with no changes on his part? What are YOUR boundaries and needs? Be prepared with those.
I just read this this morning and I know you've had contact with H since then but,
Sometimes I feel like hiding emotions, hides the truth. I really have come a long way in suppressing down my anger and not jumping to conclusions with him.
Suppressing emotions is not a good thing, you're right.
I think what others might have been trying to help you with was recognizing your emotions and not acting from that emotion. Asking yourself what am I feeling and why am I feeling that. It's difficult to do in the midst of an important conversation but the more you do it day-to-day the easier it gets.
Suppressing anger is not the goal-it will come out sideways down the road. Understanding your anger and working through it can help you make better decisions and better able to maintain your equilibrium.
I am really trying to keep an open mind but also stay grounded knowing that I have a lot of great qualities to offer someone and if H really can't appreciate that, it now is his loss, not mine.
Moving from one R to another is rarely a good idea.
Do you feel you're ready?
Is that going to make you feel better about yourself?
Did you read the co-dependency book?
It will constantly be a work in progress, I don't want to ever take it for granted again.
We're all a work in progress, every day.
I am really trying to keep an open mind but also stay grounded knowing that I have a lot of great qualities to offer someone and if H really can't appreciate that, it now is his loss, not mine.
Moving from one R to another is rarely a good idea.
Do you feel you're ready?
Is that going to make you feel better about yourself?
Did you read the co-dependency book?
No, I don't feel I'm completely ready. When I don't have interaction with H for a long time, however, I do start to somewhat forget the intensity of my feelings for him. Talking with him last night reminded me very much why I've been going through what I've been going through.
The date I went on was not for me to necessarily move on because I was in no way attracted to this guy. It's just that after so long I have forgotten what it feels like to be appreciated by someone. He made me realize a lot about myself. I did feel for a long time that I didn't even know how to act around people anymore. That I didn't believe in myself. The date proved otherwise. More than anything it was just a reminder that I have great qualities and someone out there will appreciate them whether H does or not.
I think all too often as mothers and wives, we lose ourselves. Life starts to revolve around our kids and our H's and the person that we once were, disappears. Responsibility of everyday life takes over and everything else falls by the wayside. This very much happened to me and quickly had me falling into a depression which then led to me not being able to function with household responsibilities and sometimes socially. It wasn't how I envisioned life should be. Yes, I wanted a family but, sadly, day in and day out my life felt meaningless.
These were things that were very much my fault. And I'm still trying to figure out how to balance it all and stop the negative thoughts. Having the date reminded me of the girl I once was. Nothing more, nothing less.
I didn't want to continue to stay in my R with my H just because of the fact that I feared that no one else would love me or appreciate me. Well, I know now that that is completely untrue. I'm now staying in it because I know I have wonderful qualities to bring to the table and I am someone worth keeping. I am the mother of his children and the bond between us is undeniable. He knows this.
So, verab, I now have no idea what my boundaries are regarding him continuing on with his R with OW. This is THE MOST messed up situation ever!! I continually have no answers or direction. Which tells me I just have to keep on with what I've been doing. I guess, eventually I may crack and I'll know when things are over. But for now, it's not so clear.
The date I went on was not for me to necessarily move on because I was in no way attracted to this guy. It's just that after so long I have forgotten what it feels like to be appreciated by someone. He made me realize a lot about myself.
I don't think affairs are ever justified, but I think it helps to understand how easily it can happen. Do you think this might be how your H got into his A?
Grrrrr JKS, if I were in your shoes I'd be very angry and frustrated.
You are pursuing him under the belief that you can convince H to end this affair, when in fact, only he can decide to do that on his own.
He's feeding you little scraps, little bits of hope, that keep you on the line. He reels you in and then pushes you back away. That works well for him, he has the best of both worlds -- OM to live with and you to take him back any time he wants.
He will keep that cycle going as long as you let him.
How do you break it? You make him wonder if you have moved on. You make it apparent that you no longer *need* him. You're willing to engage with him, but you don't need him. When he sees that, he'll really start to hurt.
Read the post that Brit made to CV on her thread, it might be on page 10, a long post from the perspective of a WAS -- read particularly about what her H did after she left and the impact that had on her.
I think you'll find that instructive.
I really would like for you to stop initiating or engaging in R talks with H completely. This will not unwind on your schedule, and all you're doing is giving yourself whiplash, bouncing between hope and despair.
Accuray
So H did sleep over at OW's last night. Accuray, you are right, I am living in a constant state of whiplash.
I read Brit's post and I know that I have to detach. I know that I have to GAL. The more I do those things, though, the more I just wish I was doing those things with him. You can go hang out with friends and engage yourself in activity that is fun and passes the time away but at the end of the day, you still come home to an empty house. That is reality.
Is there a secret ingredient to detaching that I'm missing? Apparently I don't know how to do it effectively. I AM so frustrated and angry right now.
I just want to be able to see things differently. I want to MOVE ON!!!
The date I went on was not for me to necessarily move on because I was in no way attracted to this guy. It's just that after so long I have forgotten what it feels like to be appreciated by someone. He made me realize a lot about myself.
I don't think affairs are ever justified, but I think it helps to understand how easily it can happen. Do you think this might be how your H got into his A?
Yes, I do. He was looking for a connection and a friend because he didn't feel he had that in me.
Just something I found tonight online.
The "Mind-Body"Affair. Here's the most dangerous one of all for the lovers' existing relationships. It's so powerful because it feels so complete -- emotionally, sexually, intellectually, spiritually. Matt and Ellen, who consulted me as a couple, met through a parents' function at their children's school. Right away, they felt a strong, mutual con-nection. "If I believed in reincarnation," Matt told me, "I would say that we were together in a former life. We feel like ‘soul-mates.'" "I never thought a relationship could feel like this," said Ellen.
The "mind-body" affair is highly threatening to a marriage because it feels so "right." Of course, the couple may try to end it or turn it into a "just-in-the-head" affair, but that rarely works. Of all the different affairs, I've found that this kind most frequently leads to divorce and remarriage. The upside is that the new relationship often proves to be the right match for the couple. Nevertheless, it generates all the mixed consequences that all affairs produce, especially when children are involved.
I constantly have a hard time seeing how H is ever going to be able to walk away from his A. Part of me thinks that I should just file because I am really holding on to nothing. How is it ok for a person to offer up the feelings of wanting to reconcile but then continue to "date" OW? Basically telling me "could you just wait a little longer while I figure this out?" This literally could go on for months. Do I have it in me to last another couple months? I really don't know anymore.
This has really affected my self-esteem and my self-worth, and ending it could quite possibly be my jumping off point to a whole new me. The independent me.
I worry so much that H may choose to R and then go back to being on the fence again. Or choose to R and secretly go behind my back and sleep with OW. How does a M survive this? Their emotional connection is too much for me. The fact that he's still telling me that he thinks he's "in love" with her is really gut wrenching. If we're being honest, that feeling isn't going to change any time soon. It really could take years.
And it's not like the time they're spending together is really making things worse, it's like they're just becoming more and more close. I'm trying to be realistic here. I want so badly not to feel anything for him because I really feel like he doesn't deserve that from me anymore. You'd think after 9 months of this that I would be over it. What is wrong with me?
There is nothing wrong with you. However, your H's actions have, as you admit, lessened your self-esteem. Can you get to an IC who maybe specializes in healing from infidelity? Maybe re-read DR's section on that. Again. Think about your boundaries. How long will you stand for his behavior?
I can't remember, and I'm on slow internet, so I apologize if this has been addressed upthread - have you consulted an L just for information on your rights and possible steps you could take to protect yourself and your kids?
Think about your boundaries. How long will you stand for his behavior?
I can't remember, and I'm on slow internet, so I apologize if this has been addressed upthread - have you consulted an L just for information on your rights and possible steps you could take to protect yourself and your kids?
I feel like I can't do it for much longer. The summer holidays are coming up and if he's going to be including OW in on all of the family activities and not me, I just don't think I can handle it. If I knew that we were on the road to D then I would be more inclined to let that go because I wouldn't have any expectations. My focus would be towards starting my new life.
And I can just hear everyone thinking, that should be your focus anyway. But obviously, I can't do that when he has one foot my way and one foot her way. If its just done and over with then I know where I stand. I am being strung along. And, for what? To be the back-up in case OW doesn't work out?
Yes, I have sat down with two L's. And I just emailed a third one tonight because the other two didn't seem like a good fit for me. I want to be ready. I want to start having some closure. Its like I just need to suck it up and do something. Why am I waiting around for him? So he can continue to break my heart over and over? I have been rejected SOOOOO much in the last 9 months and its almost like I'm the one that's being blind.
My mom's H was telling me today that he has NEVER witnessed a H treat his W this way. He has seen a lot in regard to adultery and D and this is by far the worst situation he has ever seen.
I know eventually I'm going to have to get a job and I actually do welcome it because I want to get myself out there. Get my focus on something other than this sitch.
I did sign up to do some volunteering at the beginning of this week but haven't heard back from them yet. I am so excited to be going on this retreat this weekend. It is seriously just what I need.
But obviously, I can't do that when he has one foot my way and one foot her way.
jks, he doesn't have one foot your way. He is firmly in OW's camp. When he panics and thinks you're going to move on, he will try to do enough to keep you warm, but that's it.
I know this is super painful, but longer term you'll have an easier time if you see it that way. He's really *not* on the fence, he has moved on, but wants the ability to jump back over if things don't work out. He's also worried about access to the kids.
Volunteering and the retreat are great -- going out with that guy you met on a friendly basis was great. Keep doing things like that -- that's your path. H needs to *see* that you've moved on. You can't tell him, you need to show him. You show him by being friendly but indifferent to him. You don't *need* him. He must believe that.
Accuray
I was going to write the pretty much the same thing Accuray wrote. Mine would have been, when he says "I'm coming home to work on the marriage" believe about 50% of that.
Focus on you, I have a feeling you've never really done that.
Focus on you, I have a feeling you've never really done that.
Lately, no, I haven't. I did go through a phase of not caring and doing things for myself. I have just been exhausted, not sleeping and not really eating still. I hate that he has this affect on me.
But obviously, I can't do that when he has one foot my way and one foot her way.
jks, he doesn't have one foot your way. He is firmly in OW's camp. When he panics and thinks you're going to move on, he will try to do enough to keep you warm, but that's it.
I know this is super painful, but longer term you'll have an easier time if you see it that way. He's really *not* on the fence, he has moved on, but wants the ability to jump back over if things don't work out. He's also worried about access to the kids.
Volunteering and the retreat are great -- going out with that guy you met on a friendly basis was great. Keep doing things like that -- that's your path. H needs to *see* that you've moved on. You can't tell him, you need to show him. You show him by being friendly but indifferent to him. You don't *need* him. He must believe that.
Accuray
YOU ARE RIGHT!!! He is NOT my H anymore. I need to do better with this.
That three week period with the kids was killer for me. To be honest, it put me back to the emotional state I was in when I was with my H. Where I felt empty, alone and hopeless. Which then made me incredibly angry and resentful towards him when I heard of all the things he was doing and that he was doing them with OW. I have got to stop hearing about what he's doing. It is killing me! Or I just need to learn to let it roll off my back. I do wish I was a lot further along in this process emotionally.
Thank you both for continuing to post, I really need it right now.
JKS,
Having 3 young kids almost did me in, and I had a partner and no marital strife at the time -- I can only imagine. I would definitely make sure you don't do more than 50% custody at this point.
I realize you are their mother and you love them, but you are also a person in a crisis, who needs time to herself to deal.
What is your current custody agreement?
Accuray
What is your current custody agreement?
Accuray
Legally there is nothing set in place but he normally has them 3 nights a week. Sunday afternoon to Weds morning.
The three week period was my way of getting away from the drama with him, but at the same time, it created more drama for me because I was starting to lose myself again.
hi jks,
i saw where you posted on brit's thread that you feel like you are starting over again. i am sorry you are in so much pain.
i felt that way too... my W said at one point that she wanted to work on things and was confident we would be able to... this was before OW and it lasted 3 weeks until she started seeing OW..
i felt like i was back at the beginning and i got scared.. but i rebounded much, much quicker than before. what i had learned here and by reading and working on me helped me recover quicker.
there are still moments when i feel like i am back at the start... but they are fewer and shorter
i hope that is the same for you. ((( )))
Jks- I've been reading through all of your threads for the past few days. I felt like I was on the roller coaster with you. I'm so sorry for all you are going through. I have a hard time GAL without kids and having that outlet of a full time away from home job. I've been really angry with my H too and his friends, his family, the whole gamut. One thing that helps me is feeling bad for him. I just keep thinking of all he is losing.
I found the advice you got on your tread very helpful and inspiring. I have copied that story that I think old timer posted into my phone- Shake it off and step up. That is my new mantra!
Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=714209Went back to my first thread and found this link. I NEED TO LIVE BY THIS RIGHT NOW!!!
-------
Thank you, Maggie and Needgrace for your kind words. Hopefully, someone can learn something from my mistakes LOL!!
Whatever you do, do not let your guard down when they are being nice. This is where they attract you back into the game like a moth to a candle. They know that you want them back and will do anything to get them back; and they also know just what strings to pull to get you to pursue them all over again. Stop! Do not pursue or the game will continue on indefinitely!
This is soooo my situation. No more letting my guard down.
Hello everyone!
I had THE BEST weekend at the photography retreat. I met some amazing people and learned a lot about myself. One of those things being that I need to EMBRACE the person I am. Far too often I am comparing myself to others and seeing myself as LESS. I had to tell myself there is a reason I am the way I am. There's a reason why I'm not as super outgoing as other people... because I have a sincere, tender heart. I take my relationships personally. I prefer connecting with people on a deeper level rather than skimming the surface.
Taking a step back to observe this about myself and the way I interact with a group was really profound for me. I learned that there are a lot of people that appreciate me and value me... but I also need to VALUE myself. I need to know my worth.
It was so interesting because we went around the group to talk about each other's photography work and when it came to me, a woman that I mentored with and have looked up to for so long, said to me, you are "our state's" best kept secret and I have mentioned this to several people here. You talk to people like your work isn't really anything special and then I go to your blog and you are constantly blowing me away. You have it, girl. You just need to believe in yourself.
I was literally sobbing. Several people made absolutely amazing comments about my work. Things that I didn't even think people noticed. It took me a long time to regain my composure so that I could talk again and respond to their comments. Very, very emotional time for me.
One of the things I mentioned was that I have been debating for a long time whether photography is something that I should continue to pursue or not. It has been an internal struggle to know if this is the right path for me. I now know, that I NEED it in my life to have something for ME. It's my creative outlet and it makes me so proud to see how much I've grown with it.
On my way up to the retreat I dropped my kids off to H. I have to admit, I looked pretty amazing. I bought some new lipstick (bright red, I never wear bright red) and was dressed in some pretty tight jeggings. When I got out of the car my H said, you look pretty. I could then see him checking me out the entire time I was there.
He then asked me questions about the retreat. And my D6 kept wanting to talk to me and give me kisses and hugs. The whole situation felt really good because I had something to look forward to this weekend. I knew no matter what H and the kids were doing, I am doing something that is absolutely for me so I can see why GAL is so important. It makes you feel empowered. It brings back your self-esteem.
On Sunday at the retreat we all got our hair and makeup done and went out and took pictures of each other. I have to tell you, I was really feeling it being in front of the camera. I really felt so beautiful and relaxed. It was a good feeling. I then saw some of the pictures the other photographer's took of me and I was so overwhelmed with happiness!! It was so amazing to be able to see myself that way.
I'm constantly taking pictures of others and rarely do I get the same kind of pictures taken of me. It was such a great gift to be given.
I will be getting my kids back tomorrow morning. I've been aching to see them.
Hi jks-welcome back and so happy to hear you had such a fantastic weekend JUST FOR YOU. Enjoy getting back to gether with your kids.
Feel good about YOU.
Bustingout
What a fantastic experience, I'm so happy to hear that you had the chance to go! Hooray!
Thank you, ladies. It was such a great bonding experience and I know I've made friends to last me a lifetime.
Feeling sad again today. My D6 said a lot of hurtful things to me when I picked her up from school today. How daddy takes her to do things like get snow cones and ice cream and I don't do anything fun. (Which is not true, I just don't spoil her to death.) My H very much reminds me of a Disneyland Dad. I have to be the mean one that won't give them candy whenever they want it and won't buy them a toy whenever they want it. But then they go with daddy and he'll do anything because he's just nice like that.
Isn't it wonderful? It did make me cry. She told me she wished I wasn't her mother and that she wished she didn't have to be with me. Oh, and that I was the worst mother ever. Yes, this is coming from a 6 year old but, honestly, this is the last thing I want to hear right now.
I sat her down and had a calm conversation with her about why I do the things I do. I don't think its necessary for kids to have to be entertained by their parents 24 hours a day. I explained to her that I wanted her to use her imagination and find fun things to do with friends outside or with her brother. (that's what I did when I was little, is that weird?)
She then told me about how OW was there for H's sister's birthday party and was there the day before doing crafts with her. So H is moving right along with getting her closer with his family and with my kids.
Honestly, am I really supposed to be ok with this? Does anyone truly believe that I should just sit around and wait anymore? Really. Be honest. Because if he's in love with her, how is that in love feeling just going to go away in a couple weeks or months? Especially since he's getting closer with her over time. Help me to see this logically. I feel like I am being played a fool and should just cut my losses now.
I am with you JKS. I am so there. I wish I had good words of advice but I am just as confused as you. I am keeping an eye on your thread in case someone has great words of wisdom.
Will also keep an eye here. I understand that place as I visit it oftem myself.
This is also the hardest part for me. If there wasn't an OM, I think my W and I would be in a good place. She needs her space, I have no problem giving it to her.
It is just the pain of a 4 year old happy to tell you about the fun things they do with the OM.
I am just holding out hope that most As don't last. Most As don't last more than 6 months, etc. This one just crossed over 6 months but only 1 month she has had her own apartment. I am waiting for the day it is over, but it sure does hurt.
Honestly, am I really supposed to be ok with this?
JKS, you're not supposed to be ok with it, in fact you should be outraged. It's not ok in any way. The fact that his family isn't telling him this behavior is inappropriate also bothers me. It's very obviously inappropriate.
I'm sorry about the episode with your 6 year old, that would break my heart. You did the right thing -- it's not going to be in anyone's interest to try to out-gift each other. H is going to be overly doting out of guilt, and OW is going to be attentive to get the kids to like her for H's benefit.
Does anyone truly believe that I should just sit around and wait anymore? Really. Be honest. Because if he's in love with her, how is that in love feeling just going to go away in a couple weeks or months? Especially since he's getting closer with her over time. Help me to see this logically. I feel like I am being played a fool and should just cut my losses now.
No one is telling you to sit around and wait. That's up to you -- if you CHOOSE to sit around and wait, then we'll support you in that choice. If you choose to move on and pursue divorce, we'll support you there too.
Standing by and watching an affair happen with your spouse is awful, and it can feel hopeless and that it will last for all eternity -- it's a punishing place to be.
We all have a line in terms of how much we can take before we have to walk away to protect ourselves emotionally. No one is going to prescribe where your line should be JKS, that's completely up to you, and you should not fear anyone's reaction if you decide to give up -- you've done more than enough already to try to save your marriage.
It keeps coming back to "what do you want?" Statistically, most relationships born from affairs burn out pretty quickly -- within a year. But that's "most", not all. Some lead to marriage. Most of those marriages then fail, but some do not. There are no guarantees about your H's path forward. He and OW may marry and be perfectly happy forever after. I can tell you that the odds don't favor it, but that's not a guarantee.
Generally when affairs start it's because your H had unmet emotional needs that OW was able to fill for him. OW may be able to fill some of his needs, while you fill others. His comments and apparent desire to cake eat support this. The unmet needs become the most important to him, but eventually he'll need all of his emotional needs met. Either she'll be able to do that for him, or she won't.
The thing is, the longer they live together, the more "real" everything gets. He now gets to see the dirty dishes in addition to the clean kitchen. He now gets to see the unbrushed hair, the temper, and the annoying mannerisms. At the same time, if everytime you see him you look good, smell good, and are upbeat, you start to be the more favorable comparison. That might work, and it might not.
I wish I could tell you that someone here has the magic book of answers that will work for you and tell you how long you'll have to wait and what you should expect, but we don't. All we can really offer is support on whatever path you choose.
Accuray
JKS,
You asked me this on hopingandpraying's thread -- I'll answer here so I don't threadjack:
Accuray, are you thinking about leaving your W???
JKS, I'm not happy. My W basically acts like someone who loves me, but is not in love with me. I've been trying to accept that by lowering my expectations, but it's not working for me. All of the "professional help" that I've sought basically boiled down to the fact that W is not going to do the work, so I either accept things as they are, or leave.
From my perspective, W can't will herself to be "in love" with me, and the lack of that emotion discourages her from stepping up to work with me on the marriage. She wants to do just enough to keep things going, but the minimum is no longer enough for me.
I feel that I've really been trying, I don't have any regrets. I'm going to give it one more shot -- I'm going to try the MarriageBuilders program and see if that works for me. If it doesn't, I'll re-evaluate. But yes, in answer to your question, I've been having WAS thoughts, I'm tired of being unhappy.
Accuray
Yeah, even if someone knows of a thread where someone has had success with DB'ing while openly knowing their spouse is having a PA. Hearing about the activities the OP is doing with their kids on a regular basis.
Every sitch that I've read that has had success, there wasn't another person involved. (at least, that they knew of) I think it changes everything when you know about it and your spouse has openly stated that they're "in love." Especially when OP is a long time friend of 6 years.
I'm just trying to wrap my head around some kind of clarity. This may be a good time for me to put a timeline as to how much longer I'm going to put up with this. Yes, no?? And not necessarily tell my H when, but to know for myself.
I know everyone says to detach, but to be honest, my H is a really good man despite the things he's doing lately. He has always had my best interest at heart and to start thinking that my life would be better without him, is just absolutely not true. He has a warm, caring personality. He's funny. He's very even tempered. The thing that people tell me the most about him is that they feel like they can tell him anything. He's that guy. Not to mention, very attractive.
How do I detach from this?
I have continued not to contact him.
Accuray, I read a lot of your posts and all I can say is, if you leave, your W is really letting a good man get away.
Accuray, I read a lot of your posts and all I can say is, if you leave, your W is really letting a good man get away.
Agreed!
I think I'm going to give it until the end of June. If H is still doing the same thing, meaning, sleeping over at OW's, inviting her to family functions, not contacting me and not talking about reconciling then I am going to re-evaluate. And I will probably be moving forward by filing.
At that time, it would probably be best to use the LRT, right? Give him the ultimatum? I honestly know that I cannot go another 6 months doing this. Even to go another month is pure torture.
Granted, I will still have to hear about OW from my kids but then I can at least accept it, because I know that I'm not working towards reconciling anymore. So what he does with her, is his business.
What he's doing right now, is so blatantly disrespectful, especially after all the things that he's told me recently. I feel like I'm just being taking advantage of. I feel like in a way, I'm being a coward. Like my self-esteem is so low that I don't have the dignity to just move forward without him. It's getting to the point of being completely embarrassing. And to know that his family is on board and supporting it, is just downright maddening.
I am devastated by this everyday.
Sorry to hear about what your D said! I can't even imagine how awful that must have felt in the moment.
Are you not in LRT right now? Why would you wait to do it until June?
Do you think I should just do it now?
If you aren't doing it already, why would you think that your current course of action would generate any changes in H?
Just to be clear, tell him that I'm going to file for D if he doesn't stop what he's doing with OW? Total LAST LAST RESORT TECHNIQUE.
If you aren't doing it already, why would you think that your current course of action would generate any changes in H?
I have no idea. It wouldn't. He is playing me.
I forget what LRT is exactly per the book. It doesn't include ultimatums though, does it?
I am heading toward Divorce Central and I am in the LRT. Sometimes I think it is pushing H faster toward the OW and pushing him away from me but he is heading in that direction anyway. I am still acting "as if" and GAL because it does get his attention. I am not cold or mean to him, but I am trying to detach. It isn't easy and I hate the fact that he wants to be with OW and introduces her to the family and my kids and we aren't even D yet. It stings. So I know exactly how you feel.
If you file, JKS, you may be able to get a temporary order to keep OW away from your kids. Talk to a L and see what advice you get. I am off to my appointment shortly. Wish me luck!
I know there's a section in the book that talks about giving the ultimatum but having to be ready to give it, because you have to follow through with it, otherwise, all respect will be lost.
I can tell you that I am miserable. I do want to give H more time to really allow him to show his true colors. He did tell me he wanted more time. I will give it, but like I said, I think only another month is the most I can do.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the "LRT" is NOT an ultimatum, it's going completely dark and cutting off all contact. With kids that's hard because you have to do handoffs, but you keep your interactions and words to the bare minimum, and only business.
It's giving them a taste of what life is like when you're truly gone.
Someone who has the book handy should look it up so JKS isn't getting the wrong idea.
JKS, an ultimatum is effectively the same as walking away and saying you're done!
Peter
I think he has an idea of how it would be without me, and could really care less...
This next month will be complete darkness... well, as much as I can while still handing off kids back and forth. Only time will tell.
My SIL called today and said she drove passed OW's house and my H's work car was there. She is now stalking him... LOL! I actually could have called the neighbor across the street to find out whether he was there or not if I really wanted to know, but I didn't really want to know because it's obvious. It just makes me angry and then I want to do irrational things like egg her house and key her car.
For anyone reading this, any encouragement on staying dark will help a lot because I have huge moments of weakness where I just want to call him and ask him what the hell is going on. I know the longer I do this, the better. But he can't expect me to go on like this for longer than a month. The race he was talking about is on June 16th so I feel like any time after that is going to be my breaking point.
Btw, we are on a first name basis now? I feel so privileged! To be honest, I'm pretty sure I saw a picture of you on FB under "DB Buddies" but the group isn't there anymore? There couldn't be two Accurays right?
I slipped, doing too many things at once!
I slipped, doing too many things at once!
Ha ha, no worries.
Busted!
Going dark means regaining your dignity and self respect. It means that u think good things of yourself. It means that u have let H go. You don't need him to be whole. and u can't put dates on things it don't work like that. So in June u will stop loving him?
How are u different today?
Going dark means regaining your dignity and self respect. It means that u think good things of yourself. It means that u have let H go. You don't need him to be whole. and u can't put dates on things it don't work like that. So in June u will stop loving him?
How are u different today?
The problem is, I will never stop loving him. It is impossible. This could go on and on and on. I feel like letting him go and ending my R with him, is me regaining my dignity. Do you know how much it hurts to have a spouse tell you to your face that they're in love with someone else but they MIGHT see a future with you? But in the mean time they're going to continue having sex with the OP? The OP is there for all major family events and is continually growing closer with your kids.
I am being replaced. That is just the dirty truth.
Where is my dignity in that? Just holding on to little bits and pieces of nothing. They're becoming closer and I'm becoming resentful and angry.
How am I different today? I feel like I'm more understanding than I've ever been in my entire life. I have given him the benefit of the doubt several times. I have overcome a lot of my anxieties about cleaning and keeping things together... this is still not perfect, but if I aim towards perfection then I feel I'm just setting myself up to fail. I work out so much more than I ever have which does make me feel better about myself.
I feel my full potential of reaching my independence can't be obtained until I find a place of my own. Get a job and start doing everything for myself. I'm torn about the job on a daily basis because I was told by my L not to get one. (Here I am a stay-at-home mom who's living with her mother and, really, I have no where else to go unless I do get a job. I know this needs to happen sooner or later, just don't know if its wise to pursue it now.) My tax guy did just recently tell me that H did email him on May 8th to ask him what my income was... I'm guessing for alimony. He never did respond to my H, though, because he felt like he would be helping my husband possibly get out of having to pay it. Because I'm self-employed it's harder to read it on our previous tax returns, I guess.
I will be talking with a third L on Monday to see if she's a good fit for me. The first one I talked to was arrogant and distracted and the second one was absolutely amazing but extremely expensive. I'm hoping this third one can be somewhere in the middle.
And I know that everyone thinks I need to just forget about H. What he's doing should not be my focus. How do I do that when my kids bring him up in every other sentence? Most of the time I just respond with, "cool." I don't want to make them feel bad for talking about their dad, but it kills me to hear it. When will I stop caring? I don't know.
I get that JKS. I am being replaced too. But I am not going to let it go without a fight. I am to the point where DB or not I have to watch out for me and my kids and stand up for what is right and true. Sometimes love must be tough. Ask a L if you have any bearing on keeping OW away from your kids. Maybe you don't have to file. But it doesn't hurt to ask.
As long as your H knows you will be there for him, he has no rush to decide. That is why you must go as dark as you can.
It is childish, but I did the same thing as a kid. I would date two girls but keep stringing one along just in case it didn't work out with the other girl.
I love my W. I would take her back in a heartbeat if given the chance. However, I can't let her know. She has told her sister, her friends, etc that I will always be there for her when they tell her to pull her head out of her a@@. She was so confident she could see the OM and I would take her back. Since I have gone dark/dim, I think it has scared her. She is contacting me more and seeing what I am doing because she is starting to worry if I will always be there. I will, but I refuse live in pity and allow her to think she is able to do as she pleases.
You are too good to be someone's backup plan.
As long as your H knows you will be there for him, he has no rush to decide. That is why you must go as dark as you can.
It is childish, but I did the same thing as a kid. I would date two girls but keep stringing one along just in case it didn't work out with the other girl.
I love my W. I would take her back in a heartbeat if given the chance. However, I can't let her know. She has told her sister, her friends, etc that I will always be there for her when they tell her to pull her head out of her a@@. She was so confident she could see the OM and I would take her back. Since I have gone dark/dim, I think it has scared her. She is contacting me more and seeing what I am doing because she is starting to worry if I will always be there. I will, but I refuse live in pity and allow her to think she is able to do as she pleases.
You are too good to be someone's backup plan.
I love everything you just said here. I need to remember this.
I second that jks.
I have been dark for almost three weeks. It has been th best thng I have done in terms of regaining my pride and self esteem. Before it was constant rejection and resentment. Now I feel more In control.
It's very hard. But it gets easier. And it's empowering. And that is what we need at this time. To feel empowered everyday. Day by day. Forget the future for now. Focus on YOU today.
When I think I am going to backslide I think do I want to feel empowered or do I want to feel rejected?
I second both BUstingOut and Lost. I just wish you could have more to throw yourself into and keep busy but it makes sense about the job and it's tough to GAL with little ones. I find I feel better when I keep moving. Don't refuse any invitations to do anything- get out of your house even when you don't feel like it.
You can and will do this JKS. Be confident- many men would give their right arm to be with you. I've been telling myself that, because I know it's true, and I feel so much better. I've gotten more compliments and lately I just think- wow, my H is an idiot, I have so much to offer! Fake it til you make it if you have to.
You can and will do this JKS. Be confident- many men would give their right arm to be with you. I've been telling myself that, because I know it's true, and I feel so much better. I've gotten more compliments and lately I just think- wow, my H is an idiot, I have so much to offer! Fake it til you make it if you have to.
Thanks, Maggie and bustingout!! I needed to hear this.
My contact with H has been very minimal. Only business-related.
Took the kids out tonight and photographed them tonight. I'm sure the kids will be telling H about it, but I'm pretty sure I'm not sharing. Sorry, I'm mean.
You can and will do this JKS. Be confident- many men would give their right arm to be with you. I've been telling myself that, because I know it's true, and I feel so much better. I've gotten more compliments and lately I just think- wow, my H is an idiot, I have so much to offer! Fake it til you make it if you have to.
^^^ Yeah!!
Jks, I realized I never answered your question, that was my picture, and that group is still there.
Accuray
Oh, I saw the link from purgatory's thread and recently clicked on it and it said the FB group was no longer there? Or something like that...
H came to pick up the kids today. I was dressed super cute (in a dress) and did my hair a different way. I felt him noticing but who knows...
Our exchange was good. I was happy. When I feel beautiful, I know I exude that from myself. We had small talk and I waited outside for the kids to get in the car and then gave them their kisses and hugs. I shut the door to the car and H was waiting behind me and said, "can I have a hug?"
I said, sure. It seemed like he held on longer than usual. And then when I pulled away he looked like his eyes were watery. I started to walk away and then said, "are you crying?"
He said no, then put his sunglasses on. I have no idea about any of that. It was just weird.
He seemed really happy to see me and I love being around him and our kids and feeling like a family again. Only if it is for a couple minutes. I know the space helps him.
Oh, and I've started to read a book called "The Enabler." I cannot believe how much this story reflects me and my husband and, this may sound weird, but his mom also. Enabling never makes anyone learn and grow for themselves and I'm coming to realize that my H almost paralyzed me in helping me so much.
I am so grateful everyday that he made the choice for us to take a break so that I've had this opportunity to grow. He's forced me to do things I would not normally do if he was still around. I am getting to independence but I know I'm not quite there yet.
I'd love to get a place of my own. Really, I would. Hopefully talking to this 3rd L tomorrow can give me some new insight. Who knows...
Oh, I was also going to ask opinions on this... Father's Day is coming up and, yes, I may be softening my heart a little, but I was thinking that I might take the photos I took of the kids the other night and make a small album for him. I would wrap it up and say it was from the kids. And let them give it to him. I design professional albums as a part of my business so it would be something that he truly would only be able to get from me. And I know that he's been dying to get some new pictures of the kids.
Bad idea? Or should I just not get him anything... he didn't get me anything or have the kids get me anything for Mother's Day.
Hmm. His reaction today (crying?) was interesting. Maybe best in the future to give him a quick warm arm squeeze as you're walking away instead of asking if he's crying?
As for the gift... an album seems to be a bit heavy given your situation. What about a single picture of the kids together? If he's receptive to that, then maybe the album sometime later. I'd say go ahead and maybe design the album now if you have time, as a creative outlet, and hold it in your pocket for a bit.
Hmm. His reaction today (crying?) was interesting. Maybe best in the future to give him a quick warm arm squeeze as you're walking away instead of asking if he's crying?
Honestly, I really don't know if he was crying or not... and it caught me off guard so I guess you could say I panicked. LOL!!
As for the gift... an album seems to be a bit heavy given your situation. What about a single picture of the kids together? If he's receptive to that, then maybe the album sometime later. I'd say go ahead and maybe design the album now if you have time, as a creative outlet, and hold it in your pocket for a bit.
You're probably right, the album is a bit much but I do like your way of thinking by creating it now anyway for the creative outlet. It really is the main reason I wanted to make it. I mean, it's pictures of my kids, why wouldn't I want to make something beautiful of them? Actually, the more I think about it, I should just make the album for myself!!
One 5x7 of all of them would suffice... or maybe he'll get nothing at all. I'll think about it.
I wanted to mention something else that happened today that I had forgotten about... I ran to S4's side of the car and I was barefoot and the road was insanely hot so I had to jump in the back of the car with S4 to stop my feet from burning. My D6 had run back into the house to grab something so I just sat there with S4 waiting for her to come back out and my H is just standing by the door talking with us.
S4 suddenly says, "Daddy, when are you going to live with Mommy again?" And I don't remember hearing anything from H. Then S4 says, "remember last time you said that you were going to live with Mommy again?" And my H says, "I did say that."
Then it was the funniest thing... nothing was said for a minute and he blurts out "AWKWARD!!" I about died... this kid is 4!! I didn't even know he knew what that word meant. My H started laughing and I turned to my little boy and said, "Do you even know what that means?" I guess he must because his timing couldn't have been any more perfect.
I agree with verab754 re: the gift. A single picture of the kids together seesm more than enough. You can always give more later, but if its too much now, you can't take it back and that could result in moving the sitch backwards a bit.
You seem to be doing well though. He is reaching out to you. Keep making that happen.
((( )))
JKS,
As heartless as it may feel, I would suggest giving him nothing. Encourage the kids to make cards for him but that's it.
Remember that when he feels you pulling away, he will do what he needs to do both consciously and unconsciously to rope you back in and get you to pursue. Asking for a hug was an example of that.
When he starts to get uncomfortable your instinct will be to comfort him. To benefit your sitch don't do that. Be nice, be cordial, be detached. He has no right to ask you for a hug based on how he's acting, don't follow that up with a gift. It will raise your expectations and you WILL be disappointed.
Accuray
I shut the door to the car and H was waiting behind me and said, "can I have a hug?"
I said, sure. It seemed like he held on longer than usual. And then when I pulled away he looked like his eyes were watery. I started to walk away and then said, "are you crying?"
I see a lot of myself in your sitch. I really need to read the whole thing and soak up other's advice.
but this jumped out at me. He always does this...even after the last bomb he gave me a BIG hug almost like he was holding me and kissed me on the cheek. It wasn't a "friendly" hug. I once told him he was giving me mixed messages.
Few things feel better than knowing someone loves you / desires you / wants you / needs you. Letting go of that is extremely difficult, regardless of what else is going on. If you can keep it going with minimal effort, it's easy to do, despite the terrible toll it takes on the other person when you don't reciprocate.
Your pursuit and knowing that you're "there" provides them with great comfort. If you can make them begin to question that, you shake their foundation and they need to start to think. When you shake their foundation, they will wage an all-out campaign to keep you on the line, and that often feels to the LBS like a first step toward reconciliation. You get your hopes up, you pursue harder (give them gifts, make overtures), and they disappear.
That's the rollercoaster, up and down. It feels great and so hopeful when they try to pull you back in, it feels very real, and is so very much what you want to believe. Then they pull back and you're left alone again. The only way to win is not to play UNTIL there is NO QUESTION that they want to reconcile, and you'll know when that is.
Accuray
He has no right to ask you for a hug based on how he's acting, don't follow that up with a gift.
Accuray
You seriously have the best perspective, Accuray. It's true, why would I want to reward him, so to speak, for continuing on with his affair while still staying married to me? I wouldn't.
What I'm realizing is I'm allowing him to have everything he wants. He isn't being forced to face any consequences for his actions. And I'm not saying I need to teach him a lesson, but I cannot let him have me (as in, the vulnerable me) when he isn't willing to give me him. He's giving that part of him to another woman.
I received some books in the mail over the weekend...
The 5 Love Languages
Co-dependent No More
The Solo Partner
I've already started The 5 Love Languages. Amazing how easily one little difference in how we interact with each other can change everything. I would suggest this book to everyone. I'm learning that it doesn't just help your marriage relationship but it can also help your relationship with your children. (or any relationship for that matter)
Brit45, what did your H say to you after you told him he was giving you mixed messages? I'm curious as to why they do it.
I'm curious as to why they do it.
Ha, ha. You just answered my question before I even posted it. Nice. Thank you for your great advice, as always, Accuray.
Now I just need to figure out how to handle these situations in the future. I feel like I need to be prepared beforehand so I'm not caught off guard by his advances. Thoughts??
(It really does feel so strange to pull back because I am so used to being engaged with him by talking and by affection... and to go against that does feel very unnatural. But I can see the need for it.)
Grrrrr JKS, if I were in your shoes I'd be very angry and frustrated.
You are pursuing him under the belief that you can convince H to end this affair, when in fact, only he can decide to do that on his own.
He's feeding you little scraps, little bits of hope, that keep you on the line. He reels you in and then pushes you back away. That works well for him, he has the best of both worlds -- OM to live with and you to take him back any time he wants.
He will keep that cycle going as long as you let him.
How do you break it? You make him wonder if you have moved on. You make it apparent that you no longer *need* him. You're willing to engage with him, but you don't need him. When he sees that, he'll really start to hurt.
Read the post that Brit made to CV on her thread, it might be on page 10, a long post from the perspective of a WAS -- read particularly about what her H did after she left and the impact that had on her.
I think you'll find that instructive.
I really would like for you to stop initiating or engaging in R talks with H completely. This will not unwind on your schedule, and all you're doing is giving yourself whiplash, bouncing between hope and despair.
Accuray
This cracked me up. I've been reading your sitch and I was thinking on this post YES I need to do that and then Accuray says read Brits post...err maybe Brit needs to read Brit's post! I need to not rely on H so much and I'm trying!
but I cannot let him have me (as in, the vulnerable me) when he isn't willing to give me him. He's giving that part of him to another woman.
This is spot on jks. Wow. You are so right. When I think about it this way it somehow seems possible to keep going.
How are you doing? I went of the 5LL website and did the quiz for myself and tried to do it for my H (from my perspective). I sometimes feel like I never ever really listened to him at all.
Glad to see you picked up those books. I would recommend reading them in that order and also picking up the Passion Trap if you have not read it already (I did not read Solo Partner as some reviews I read indicated it seemed more geared toward a slightly older generation than ours but I believe the Passion Trap covers much of the same pursuer-distancer dynamic discussion).
As for handling situations in the future - sometimes the best thing you can do if you don't know what to do is do nothing. If he asks you a question, you can tell him you'll get back to him on it because you need to think about it. Etc. Don't feel pressured to act on everything in the moment.
Brit45, what did your H say to you after you told him he was giving you mixed messages? I'm curious as to why they do it.
Well I told him that he was giving me mixed messages because he's texted me to say happy easter and called me a pet name then took her to Easter lunch with his parents. I also brought up the hugs. He was really drunk when I told him that and later said he didn't remember much of that convo. Later that week we had another conversation which is when I told him he was giving me mixed messages, by telling me we'd work on things and then continuing to date her bring her to meet his parents etc.
I think he was very confused and just went with the flow straight into a relationship both because of his hurt from my actions and the lure of someone new. And seeing me, getting to flirt gave him a sense of security while he was still in a "new" sitch with someone else.
bustingout, I am do soooo good today. I don't know why but I have a renewed sense of self right now. I've been cleaning all morning, listening to music, and just thinking of fun things I can do this week.
When I think about my H, I seriously feel sorry for him. That he really wants to let me go. I can imagine myself with someone else now and I can see how my H would be disappointed in himself. I used to think that it would never bother him. But I know now that that is not true.
And as for his behavior with OW, I feel like I'm the better person for continuing to hold true to my vows. I am still married and I will continue to respect those vows until a D is final. That, in itself, gives me a lot of self-respect.
I went to a meeting last night that was about seeking out forgiveness. I got such a spiritual high from it. I don't want to hold on to bitterness anymore. To let this affect me negatively is only going to affect me and MY life. Being ok with it is actually very freeing. This is how I want to feel all the time. I hope I can continue on this way.
Glad to see you picked up those books. I would recommend reading them in that order and also picking up the Passion Trap if you have not read it already (I did not read Solo Partner as some reviews I read indicated it seemed more geared toward a slightly older generation than ours but I believe the Passion Trap covers much of the same pursuer-distancer dynamic discussion).
I saw that review on Amazon too, and its very misleading -- the Passion Trap and The Solo Partner are very different books with different messages covering different situations. They're both worth reading, but one is not an updated version of the other.
Accuray
I saw that review on Amazon too, and its very misleading -- the Passion Trap and The Solo Partner are very different books with different messages covering different situations. They're both worth reading, but one is not an updated version of the other.
Accuray
Thank you for the clarification.
The Solo Partner is probably the 2nd best R book I've read.