guess its time to start a new thread. i need to figure out how to link my last one. anybody know how?
Here ya go heartbroke, just open your original thread and cut and paste the link will do it:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2239038#Post2239038
day has started out crappy. hopefully it gets better. W asked me if she could use my truckto move out. i told her no. i am not helping her. she wants to do stuff on her own, so she can figure it out. she said she will ask OM to help then. i said do whatever you want, but remember what i said. i will not put up wit this treatment and we will ne done. going dark is looking more appealing
She's made her choices.
I wouldn't keep bringing up you boundary, it seems argumentative. If you stated it clearly, you knows what it is.
Good luck, it will get better.
Very sorry to hear that. But you need to stand firm with your boundaries. It's good you didn't help her move out. You need to stand firm in that you will not do anything to help her leave the marriage. It does send a powerful message. If she wants to be independent and do things on her own, this is good practice for her.
correction: If you stated it clearly, she knows what it is.
bug- i know what you meant. it is so hard to hear that stuff over and over. she told me she has hated me for almost 3 years. only reason she stuck around is she didnt have anywhere to go. that hurts. she also didnt remember what i said about boundries 2 days later. maybe she remembers now. im so sick of all this. i want to save my M, but i question it everyday. i dont know how long i can do this. it hasnt been that long, but it seems like forever.
timbits- i will not do anything to help her leave the marriage. i've done enough by pushing her away. it hurts to see all the mew stuff she is buying for her new "life". we never did that together, because we have bills and kids to take care of. now i'm stuck with the bills and she has a new life. i'm starting to feel very depressed i think
Why are you stuck with the bills? Does she have a job?
What was in your separation agreement?
bug-
she has a job. she is only paying bills for her new place. anything with my name on it, everything we need for a family, i have to pay. plus she emptied the bank account furnishing her new place. gave me 500 bucks. so i can buy a bed cuz shes takin that too. my son is supposed to go to hockey camp that is 400 dollars. so it looks like i have $100 for a bed. guess im still sleeping on the couch. i am sorry if i sound rude. i am not in a good mood right now. this is killing me, and she seems so happy about it all. which makes it hurt worse.
i need something. i have no money for a lawyer. and i really dont care. she can have whatever. i will get by. i always have. i have never cared about money. the hard part in all of this is seeing my family vanish. and now all the things around the house with memories of good times is going away too. it is so hard. i cant stay positive. i am backsliding horribly. she asks me if i care about her taking something. i say yes, then she says something, and i respond back. i am going to fail at this in a hurry. i feel like i am losing my mind. i know what i'm not supposed to do, and here i am doing it. what is wrong with me? i am nailing the divorce coffin shut. uugghh
HB - You really need to take a deep breath and slow down, way down. You've been at this just a few short months. Have you not learned anything yet about how to make the most of the time you have to work on yourself, detach and get a life?
Look, I know this stuff is horribly difficult. We are all enduring the same heartache as you. But what is different is that many of us have found ways to get our minds of our troubles and focus on the things we can control.
Do you read some of the other threads? If not, you really should. There is so much to be gleaned from reading and absorbing and implementing some of the things others are doing to cope. There are certain posters who dispense wisdom like it is candy. And even though they are sharing their thoughts and ideas and experiences with others, it doesn't mean you can't use what they say for your own purposes.
In the business I used to work in we had a sort of tongue in cheek saying called C.A.S.E. which stood for Copy And Steal Everything. On the boards and in the forums there is a feast of information at your disposal. Use it and save yourself!
2thepoint is so right! this place is your life line, your family, the place you go to get help and to learn. read, read, read, and absorb.
When you get in those down places, CALL YOUR SPONSOR!
You are not nailing the divorce coffin shut. A bit dramatic, don't you think?
A divorce is a piece of paper. It may signal the legal end of your marriage but you will still have a relationship with your wife because you have kids.
Do you want that relationship to be better?
Do you want your kids to grow up seeing how at least one healthy adult interacts with others.
Get off you pity pot and get back to work.
Look for free legal services in your area.
i read alot of threads. i dont comment because i feel i have no help to offer. i obviously dont know how to detach or GAL. i try. doesnt seem to work.
bug-
im not hsving a pity party. and i dont call my sponsor for W problems. i didnt know i was supposed to. i want my kids to see a healthy adult. very much. i dont know why i let my W get to me the way i do. i thought i was doing good at detachment. now im back to where i started. i am no good at hiding my feelings. i need to work on that tremendously. people i know say i have changed alot. not enough for my W to notice. oh well. i try everyday to become a better person. she knows how to stab me where it hurts the most. then it seems like my progress vanishes, because old behaviors come back. i dont know why. i have poor self control, is all i can think of. i feel sick knowing this is stopping my progress.
sometime on or before the 24th i go to jail for 26 days. i am buyin my son a cellphone tomorrow so i can call and tell him and my D goodnite. ask about their day etc. i am not going to contact W for that time period. i am goin to try going dark. maybe i can accomplish that. idk.
I'm sure you've changed but I would guess your wife doesn't want to see your changes and if she does, doesn't believe they'll last. Keep working on you.
Maybe you should talk to your sponsor about how he sees his role. I'm in a different 12-Step and the sponsors are there to talk through difficult situations that flip the brain switch into the old ways of thinking and coping.
How about if you change your thought process from, "I'm going to try" to "I am going to"? Don't give yourself an out.
Good luck with the jail time.
bug-
i dont mean try. i mean do. like yoda says. =) i talk to my sponsor one on one, once a week. he gives me assignments to do that help with where i am at. he knows about my sitch and tries to help as much as he can. i have been thinking alot about how i react. i can only describe it like a wounded animal. i dont know if that makes sense. i need to start 'playing dead' so to speak. i want to have this work out, but i need to stop trying. i want to concentrate on me, i am just so easily sucked in. it disgusts me. i know it is because of my stubborness and fear of change. even when stuff isnt going good (ie. alcoholism) my absolute fear of change gets in the way. it is a huge problem that i am working on. it is going good with aa. hopefully te tools i learn there will be able to translate to other areas. i know what i need to do. once i let go, things should get better.
the jail time is no big deal. i have work release so i will only be sleeping there. i still work and will be able to call my kids everyday. i am planning on no contact with W whatsoever. if she contacts me, i am going to be polite and not talk to long. that is a goal anyway. another one is to shut my mouth! the more i talk the more it goes bad. its like diarrea of the mouth. it is horrible. i have the kids all next week, then she has them till i am out of jail. that is going to be very hard for me. i will miss them so much. i know they will miss me too.
another thing i am having a hard time with is mothers day. her mom and dad(who is threatening to shoot me, lol) will be in town. she wants to go to church as a family and then out for brunch. i dont know how i feel about that. i am going to church regardless of who goes. that i do for me. the brunch thing i think i want to skip. any advice or feedback?
tonight is going pretty good so far. i havent pursued or argued at all. she asked me to cook supper for her on mothers day. i said i would think about it. we played some games with the kids. felt like a real family for a bit. was pretty nice. i dont expect it to happen very often, so if it does i will enjoy the moment while it lasts. i have to detach. i guess i better do it instead of talking about it. the way i have bee doing things is not only hurtin my chances at R, it is getting in the way of focusing on myself. i need to do that. i am going to.
"she asked me to cook supper for her on mothers day."
Why would she "ask" you to do this? And why on earth would you even entertain doing this?
it kinda threw me off too. her parents just got to town to help her move. they were supposed to help her all weekend. her mom "forgot" she had plans on monday. they are leaving around lunch on sunday. they do this to her all the time. say they will do something, then have an excuse. usually its me. im suprised they showed up at all. i guess im her fall back plan. im not really interested in making her supper. i dont like being the last resort. i dont know how to tell her no, without being a jerk. thats why i said i would think about it. any ideas. you are usually spot on
maybe you could tell her that you feel mother's day should be for her and the kids now and suggest they go out for dinner to a restaurant?
She wants to be separated. Having you fix dinner for her is not being separated. If you had an amicable relationship it might be doable but I have an idea this would turn into another blowup.
I think you both need to stay in your corners until you DON't come out fighting.
But that's opinion which is worth the price you paid for it.
you both have valid points. i do feel mothers day is for her. i dont really want to cook for her. especially afterr this weekend plays out. i dont want to fight so this is probably better. she is really good at dragging me into a fight. i dont like this, but i do have to deal with it. and i want to in a healthy way. this all feels wrong, but like the DR book says, what i feel is right isnt working..
yay..today is horrible. i came home and she is takin stuff without asking. i told her to quit and shut my dresser drawer. she called the cops..again. they advised me to stay home and watch everything she takes and write it down. this is not going good.
has anybody dealt with stuff like this? does anyone have some advice? today is only half over.
Sorry to hear this is going down.
Take pictures of everything. If there is something you don't want her to take, then tell her.
I bet you don't feel like making her dinner now.
lol..there is going to be no dinner. i dont feel like seeing her ever again right now. that im sure will change. i dont know. i did tell her. thats when she called the cops. wtf is wrong with me? why do i put up with this?
so she is gone. came and got the kids for the weekend. all her stuff is gone. kinda feels like a weight has been lifted off of me. this has been the worst day of my life so far. hands down. guess that means it can only go up from here. i feel empty. gotta start filling myself back up. i want to get back to who i was when she met me. i wasnt needy or a doormat. i was strong and confident. i want that back. its going to be a process but thats ook. will give me something to do.
Hey heartbrokeinsd,
Keep your chin up my friend, I remember this day I know it is a rough one I will share a quick story that may make you feel better.
After my wife lied to the cops and took a 50b out on me after I uncovered her A and confronted the OM and he dumped her, I was barred from the house I built for our family (totally in my name purchased before we were married solely by me because her credit was whacked from prior bankruptcy) for roughly two months. She refused to live there any longer and found a rental home which I paid the deposit and first months rent on.
After the court date I come to a house totally in dissarray, not physically damaged but absolutely filthy. Every piece of marital property is gone minus two televisions. She left me her old furniture, some kitchen stuff, our dog only because she couldn't have one at her new place, and that was about it. Oh wait! Except for basically her and her kid's "garbage". Piles and piles of old clothes, toys, baby dolls, every card and gift I had ever given her strategically placed, to give ME the opportunity to take the stuff to Goodwill for the tax writeoff. Nice right? Got to clean out the refrigerator, rotton food and all. Wow talk about a breakdown that day, come back to a 5 bedroom house to that scene was really rough, downed a 5th of Burnetts that night... About two weeks of solid work after work and weekends to get that cleaned up, I probably cried a 5 gallon bucket.
I also got left with all the marital debt to boot... I know I've made strides because even though we probably won't reconcile, I forgive her for it...
In short man, I know it's hard to believe but it could be worse. Keep your chin up, I'm thinking about and praying for your my friend.
Dang bug, I feel sorry for you. Not what you want to hear. I am just scared for you about the jail time. There is nothing to do but think in there. I guess you need to think of a plan. Stay positive. Man, lots of people here feel like they can't live without the X. I do sometimes. Miss her even though she is a piece of crap. Remember that you are not alone. Praying for you.
Bug's not going to jail, heartbrokeinsd is going to jail.
thank you broken. you are right. it could be worse. i only have a 3 bedroom...lol. this is tough. it feels like i am at a new chapter in my life. guess i gotta try to write a happy ending.
par-
thanks for your thoughts. jail is no big deal. been there done that. i have work release so i basically just sleep there. its goood to know i am not alone. thanks for the prayera. im gonna need em
Is it really no big deal? That bothers me.
You did something, the consequences of which takes your freedom away for a period of time
removes you from your children,
causes your children heartache and maybe embarrassment
and it it's no big deal?
the time is no big deal. what i did was wrong. my case could have been thrown out on a technicaality. i chose not to pursue it because what i did was wrong. ny kids know i did something wrong. they need to see me take my consequence. kinda like when i give them a timeout. my L thought i was nuts for not pursuing the loophole. i told him that is what is wrong with our justice system. do not misunderstand me, my kids are very important to me. i want them to have a good role model. how can i be a good father if i dont show them what that means. getting out of stuff cuz i can, not being a grown up. i have and always will do what i think is in the best interest of my kids. they love me and i have explained to them i have to have a timeout for misbehaving.
me sitting in jail is no big deal. i was raised by juvenile detention facilities. i turned 18 in prison. that is why i have a very hard time relating to people and dealing with feelings. i learned feeings get you hurt. i have stopped doing the stupid stuff over the years. my drinking problem led to this. i am doing stuff about that. i am working on my feelings. i have learned to relate to people more and more over the years.
That's the man I thought you were.
Thanks for clarifying.
i learned feeings get you hurt.
That's why many of us are where we are.
Do you think it's the feeling that get you hurt or the lack of boundaries which allow other people to hurt you? Give other people power over you? The inability or unwillingness to say STOP and walk away?
Ok, Well prayed for the wrong guy but still praying for you both. I went to jail once when my delusioned pilled up X called the police on me and those idiots took me to jail. I was in the right and I was sober. She was the one that should have gone.
Anyway, I had to spend the night and I thought I might kill myself. It was that bad for me. I can't do it. I would commit sucicide in jail. No question. I think to much and have no patiences and I didn't learn any there. But the surprise was that the people were not bad at all.
Oh, my case was thrown out and she got in trouble for making a false police report. I was the victim in that deal.
bug-
more than likely it is a lack of boundries that get me hurt. i have always had feelings. the only one i am comfortable showing is anger. that is because i am afraid of looking hurt. or getting hurt. i do not like people having power over me. maybe if i set the right boundries, that fear would go away. i have never been good at walking away. i need to work on that. i need to show my kids i am worth respect. i need to show them how a healthy adult acts. i need to do this for me
today has been hard. lots of emotions bouncing around. cleaned up the house from the mess W made moving out. mowed the lawn. went to church this morning. did some laundry. didnt really help keep my mind of anything. my W is happy being gone. i am miserable. at least i get my kids all week starting tomorrow night. i dont think what i did today even comes close to qualifying as GAL. i txt her happy mothers day and asked when would be a good time to drop off the stuff the kids got for her. no response. oh well. her parents must still be in town. they hate me so i dont see how this will ever work out between us. i know thats bad thinking, but thats where i am at.
I have been blamed by the parents for all kinds of crap so I know the feeling also know about thinking about the R all the time. Don't have an answer for me so I don't have one for you. Maybe one of us will find the answer. But you don't know what she is feeling right now, I have to remind you. She may be happy, she may not be-don't dwell on it, you can't change that part anyhow, so why worry about it. Sometimes I think GAL just means do something, it may not take away the pain but aleast you were productive today.
par-
thanks for that. if u find the answer, let me know. i will do the same. you are right about not knowing her feelings. i know i cant change it. all i can change is my way of dealing with it. easy to say, hard to do. i will get there. been doing alot of thinking today. mostly about myself. i am a strong stubborn person. i can use that for good. thats my new plan. stick to the 37 rules and dont waiver. no matter what. there is too much riding on it. the biggest thing is me. as far as GAL i did work out. im glad i did. i beat my best time on my run by 10 seconds. im sick too, so im pretty proud of that. now that my W is gone i can hang up the rules so i can see them all the time. its time to do the work instead of "trying". i might have pushed her to far, i might not have. friday night she fell asleep on me on the couch. first time in months she even got close to me. i fell asleep finally too. i woke up to her kissing me. very wierd. it gives me hope that she is not totally gone. or she was having a good dream. either way im believing she isnt totally gone. i get my kids tomorrow for the week! im excited. S has first game of baseball playoffs tomorrow night. thats gonna be fun.
finally fell asleep last night. woke up to a empty house. gonna have to get used to that. havent contacted W. she txt me a few times about "kid" stuff. replied shortly. hard to do but i did it. i pick up my kids after work. that will be nice. her mom is still in town, so i dont expect to hear much from her. hopefully she will watch the kids on t and w so i can go to my meetings. i really wish i had a sitter. or even knew how to find one. it is hard being new to a town and knowing no one
Don't respond to every text she sends you. It's okay to not watch the phone. In terms of a sitter, c'mon that's easy. Talk to your friends or acquaintances. Or go to a church and get recommendations. That's the easiest part.
bond-
i do not watch my phone. when i check the time i see a txt. i respond to some not to all. its hard but gettin easier. finding a sitter around here has been very difficult. anyone who has done it before wont now. W made me out to be a demon to everyone.oh well.
i called her just a minute ago. S left his ballcap there and needs it for his game tonight. she tried to say im trying to find excuses to go to her house. i am not. that is actually the last place i want to go. she kept trying to argue with me. i told her its not true, she knows it and hung up. she is probably pissed and i dont care. im sick of being talked to like that. it is not happening anymore.
Then look for new people to babysit. It can be done. Take the time to continue to get stronger. Are you seeing a C?
bond-
i am trying to do that now. i had 9 sessions with a IC in feb and march. he basically told me there was no point to him seeing me anymore. he thought i was doing what i needed to do. if my W wasnt really willing to work on things it was pointless. i went there for me. we concetrated on me gor 6 sessions. then W came for 1 at his request. she told him how horrible i am. thats when we started talking about my marriage. W went to see him 1 time by herself and never went back. she said he was stupid amd didmt know anything. maybe she was right. idk. either way he helped me see stuff about myself i didnt want to look at. im glad i went. been thinking about going back. im not sure though. im kinda really liking where my aa meetings are taking me.
ok..so i want to get this off my chest. my W mom is in town "helping" her get settled. she was here on saturday helping her move. she told my D5 that "daddy is angry all the time. he has to work on that". not the truth at all. i told her if she was going to talk that way about me to my kids, she could leave. she said i was "threatening" her. thats where my W gets it from i guess. then tonight she comes to S9's baseball game. completely rude to me. i didnt say anything. when it was time to go, D5 starts crying, saying she wants to go with mommy. i told her i know, but she has to come with me. then D5 says i hate you daddy. MIL says "its ok to hate him. you can feel however you want". i wanted to throw up. i didnt say anything. W acted like nothing happened. D cried all the way home. i told her its ok to be sad. daddy loves you and always will. she fell asleep on my lap after a story. it wasnice.
i am really mad at MIL. i dont feel that she has any place to talk like that. it really hurt.
HB - choosing the proper time, place and words to express boundaries is so critical. When you make bad choices in this regard the effects are ugly.
Next time, when there is a boundary that needs to be established or enforced, calmly pull the person aside, away from the conflict and express your views and expectations for the future. Keep your emotions in check and work through the issue at hand.
The last thing you want if for the kids to be brought into the middle of things. Protect them at all cost.
You can't control people, least of all W and MIL. You can't control what they say to D. You can discuss with them, at a neutral time, what you believe to be in the best interest of D. You can discuss with D, at her level, that sometimes MIL feels mad at you, and that's OK, but that you all love D very much, just like you did.
"It's ok to hate your dad" is pretty harsh to hear, but I doubt it will really affect your D - "I hate you" is pretty normal tantrum stuff for kids and they don't really mean it, they mean they're mad at you. Just keep loving her.
The more angry and controlling you try to be with w and mil, I think the more it will backfire for you. The more reasonable you can appear in spite of their provocation, I think, the better position you'll be in.
thats why today i chose to say nothing. how i acted before, i am embarrassed of. thats why i chose to talk to my D, just me and her. i can choose to do what is right. i have no control over others, only myself. if they want to be hateful that is their decision. life isnt much fun when you are full of hate. i know this personally. i almost feel sorry for MIL. almost.
That^^^ is where you will find happiness. Keep it going.
today is a new day. i didnt sleep well. had wierd dreams that kept waking me up in a panic. got the kids dressed and off to school. took care of a few bills. that is totally new territory for me. my W being an accountant, always handled that stuff. i'm reading a few other posts and its making me cry. it is so good to hear people are making progress. it gets me down, thinking about where my M is at. i want to be more emotionally stable. when i think about the future, and not being with my W, it really hurts. i don't want that at all. i know i can be fine without her. it doesnt change the fact that she is all i ever wanted. itd bad to say, but, sometimes looking at/holding my kids is really hard for me. i see so much of her in them. it tears me up. it is not fair to them at all. makes me feel like a miserable excuse for a dad. i gotta stop this. when does it get better? it's been over 5 months of this. not long to some, but a lifetime to me. every thing i do backfires. everything. even when it has nothing to do with her. i am so bad at this. i feel like giving up. then i think, if i do i will never forgive myself, then i wonder why bother..flip flop flip flop. i hate it
That's because you're looking for validation from her, something you may never get.
You must be happy with you, and then you will attract people who appreciate you. That may be your wife, it may not be your wife.
But YOU will be happy.
It takes as long as it takes.
i mostly like who i am becoming. minus the wishy washy crying person. i could really do without that. people do like me. everybody at work, meetings, kids sports, etc. i am a nice person who always is looking to help out. i do not do it for recognition, just do it cuz i like to help. in fact i prefer no recognition. im not a glory hunter. looks like it will take forever
Feels like you are really hurting bhinsd. I've been there, as have almost all of us. I'm going to go back and read some of your posts to see if I can help.
i am a nice person who always is looking to help out.
This might take some looking into. It can be good to be nice, it can be good to be helpful.
Too much of either, at the expense of you can be bad.
That's where those boundaries come in.
Protect you.
i might have said that wrong. i dont go looking to help. if someone asks or i see a need that i can fill i try to help. i dont do it for thank yous. i do it cause it needs to be done. for example coaching my sons sports. i dont ask to be coach as i am not an expert in all sports. but if they need a coach so he can play, i am happy to do it. i do understand what you mean by to much at the expense of me. that is my R with my W. i am always trying to do stuff to make her life easier. it gets to the point i do nothing for myself. she has come to expect it from me. she asked to use my truck to move. i said no. she aked me to load a very heavy item cuz her mom n her couldnt lift it. i said no. she got mad. i told her she said she wants to do stuff on her own and doesnt need my help. so i am not helping. i do need boundries with her. especially if we do not R.
protecting myself is kind of foreign to me. i never much care about myself and that is bad. i feel guilty for buying or doing stuff for myself. especially when i would buy beer. i did it anyway and drank away my guilt. that is my addiction problem. i am dealing with that. it is way easier than this. i do need to do stuff for myself. my kids come first and always will though.
i know there is no cure for my heartache. i am really hoping to find some techniques that wok for me to lessen it. i need to concentrate on today instead of looking to the future. i am good at letting go of the past. the future scares the sh1t out of me.
Read my last post on my thread, all about fear.
bug-
i read it..twice now. those are almost exactly the same fears i am trying to deal with. in the past i always dealt with fear by getting angry. mostly at myself for being afraid. i am not getting angry anymore. it doesnt seem to do any good. usually makes things worse. this is new ground i am covering. allowing myself to feel afraid and sad and hurt. im not to comfortable with it.
a guy i work with kinda went through this, so i talk to him about it. he keeps telling me to move on. theres plenty of women out there..etc.. i dont want other women. i want my wife. i took my vows very serious and even without those it wouldnt matter. i am loyal to a fault. once i met her, i only saw my future with her. i still do. what is wrong with people today. they give up when they dont get their way. it doesnt make sense to me. i have hardly ever got my way. i always try to make the best out of a cappy situation. now i cant figure out how to do that with this sitch.
i am afraid my W will never want me back. i am afraid that i may not want her back. she keeps saying she is going to date other people. she may be doing that to get at me, idk. either way, i would never be with her if she did that. the little bit of self respect i have left wont allow me. i am at a point where i need to make a decision. i need to figure out what i want for me.
i dont want to be afraid anymore. i want to be a man only a fool would leave. i am trying very hard to do that. i see changes i have made in myself. my kids see it. my freinds and family see it. she doesnt. why does this matter to me? i think because i love her. i am not making these changes for her, but i am hoping against all odds that it makes a difference with her.
i am sorry i ramble so much. this is also not like me. usually i am very well understood and i write well. i wrote all my wifes papers for one of her classes last semester. she (i) got an A. this whole thing has turned me into an idiot. ugghhh
took my S to baseball. W was supposed to meet me there at 6 so i could make it to my aftercare meeting at 630. she didnt show up till 625. she said sorry i'm late. i said no big deal, thank you. that is a huge 180 for me. i am very punctual and hate being late. she is never on time. usually i am hurrying her out the door. she didnt know what to say when i didnt get mad. i need to keep doing this. being on time is good, but not at the expense of arguing with my W. aftercare was good. im in a good mood finally tonight. plus my S's team beat my sponsor's S's team in a playoff game!
she said sorry i'm late. i said no big deal, thank you. that is a huge 180 for me. i am very punctual and hate being late.
I am going to go a different way with you Broken. I know that you used to get mad and that not doing so is a 180. I am not saying to get mad.
But why did you in the past?
Being habitually late is a symptom of someone either being incapable of keeping time or being downright disrespectful of other's time. Letting it pass with out a boundary and a consequence is going to invite more of the same.
It enables the behavior. Do you want more of that? do you think it is healthy in the long term for you or any relationship to allow someone to continually behave this way?
What's next? To avoid confict?
!80's don't mean accept bad behavior. It is to deal with it in a different manner.
She's late.
The next time BEFORE it is an occasion to happen communicate that you expect her to be on time. that YOUR time is as valuable as hers (or even skip that part but recognize it is)and if she is late then X
X could be you leave and she has to meet you.
It won't be fun and she won't like it. And I don't mean you take a spiteful tone. Just cause and effect.
Action and consequence.
Search on here for boundaries and how do establish and enforce them. Sandi has a great explanation somewhere.
There are two kind of folks here usually. Those who give and those who take and there never is one without the other or they would not be together.
You are the former I expect but I won't convince you of that. that is your work to figure out.
IF you set a boundary you must enforce it and it must have consequences (not spiteful ones, ones to protect you against the bad behavior)
tg-
it is funny that you say this. i was thinking about on my run. i am happy with the fact that i didnt get mad. however, i am not proud of saying thank you. it was very disrespectful. i am court ordered to these meetings. if i miss, i go to jail. she does this stuff all the time. i would get mad because i felt disrespected. she knows how long it takes her to get ready, yet me n the kids usually are stnding around waiting on her. we r pretty much late to everything. her mom is the same way, and they were together. i do feel like it was done on purpose, to get a rise out of me. she is no longer going to get tat satisfaction. she uses it for ammo on why she is right in leaving.
i do however need to have some firm boundries. i need to stick to them, yet not be spiteful. i will search for the stuff you mentioned. oh..im a giver. you got it right. i give because i enjoy it. not because im trying to impress or get thanked. i have been thinkin about taking a little tho. i am going to start with my self respect. that i will take back
It's not the emotion you have to worry about but rather your reaction to the emotion.
You should experience all your emotions, you can't deaden one and not affect the others.
I just read this a few days ago: the question isn’t how to let go of anger and feel peace, peace, peace; it’s how to manage one’s daily anger without turning into an emotional Hulk.
so another day to go thru. yippee. W didnt call the kids last night. i didnt expect her to. kinda worries me. in our separation agreement we are both sdupposed to have frequent contact with the children. she has not done that yet. makes me wonder if she is going to follow the agreement at all. im not getting worked up over it though. just thoughts that i have.
on the plus side. my house is still clean. my S is even helping clean up supper. the kids and i have been having a pretty good time together. i am enjoying that. im pretty sure her mom leaves today. we will see if she contacts the kids now that she is "alone". it doesnt matter to me really. i cannot keep letting her have power over how i think and act. when she wants to talk, maybe i will. i cant say until that actually happens.
Keep this is mind:
i cannot keep letting her have power over how i think and act.
i am back in a funk. uuggghh. i read others posts, and i start thinking about my sitch. this grieving process is miserable. its like being on a merry go round. except it isnt to merry. there is alot of useful info here. i am really trying to take it in and practice it in my life. i just have to give up. my W fired me. my R is over. i need to quit hanging on. i need to move on. maybe then we could talk normally. or just talk. she seems so happy being gone. that must mean this was right for her. i will always love her. i guess i cant be with her. detach detach detach.
i wonder why i have problems forgiving myself. she doesnt forgive me. maybe i feel like im not worthy of it. some days i feel fine with it. then i see saw back. i feel like i take 1 step forward and 1 step back. going nowhere.
Have faith. It hasn't been that long since your separation. It gets better.
Step away for a bit. Go outside and just take a deep breath. Let all the fear, stress and anxiety leave you with each exhale. Clear your mind and over time it starts to get better.
bond-
thats why i like running. i concentrate on breathing and stuff. cant think about how bad things are.
i have been reading your threads starting when you first posted. theres alot to read. was wondering if you could summarize your sitch for me. if not thats ok too.
scaredsilly-
thanks for the words. does it really get any better?
i have been thinking alot today. why is it that i have to do all this work to get her back. she is the one who is unhappy with her life. she doesnt appear to be doing anything about it. dont get me wrong. im all about peronal improvement. my question is, if i am a man only a fool would leave, and she does nothing to changee herself, wouldnt i be a fool to try to R? why do WAS have all this power? they point out stuff that is bad about LBS, but ignore the 3 fingers pointing back at them. i am not making changes for her, but it doesnt appear she is changing at all. i see all these LBS working really hard on themselves, while WAS do whatever they want, with no thought for others. kids, spouses, or themselves. i know life isnt fair, but c'mon..really? thats one of my top 2 fears. she will do nothing to change, and i will want nothing to do with her. number 1 fear is, no matter how much better of a person i am, i will never have my famiy back. thats what keeps me awake at night, those 2 things
It does get better. Soon it will be 2 steps forward and 1 step back.
Look at what you've already done.
YOU GOT SOBER! That's huge.
Keep working on you. You can do this.
I'll jot down my story when I have a chance. It's pretty long.
"why is it that i have to do all this work to get her back."
Because you are the one who wants her back.
"she is the one who is unhappy with her life. she doesnt appear to be doing anything about it."
Yes she is. She's divorcing you. She sees you as the source of her unhappiness so she's leaving.
"dont get me wrong. im all about peronal improvement. my question is, if i am a man only a fool would leave, and she does nothing to changee herself, wouldnt i be a fool to try to R?"
Because you're only like this NOW. She spent years putting up with your bad behavior now. Just because you feel like you're ready doesn't mean that she has to feel it. Why should she go according to YOUR timetable?
"why do WAS have all this power?"
Before she left, you had the power. You did whatever you wanted to do and didn't care about her feelings much like how she's treating you now.
"they point out stuff that is bad about LBS, but ignore the 3 fingers pointing back at them."
That's a matter of perspective. I'm sure before she left and you were behaving your worst, you had three fingers pointed at you. But you didn't care.
"i am not making changes for her, but it doesnt appear she is changing at all."
Again, why should she change when her primary reason for leaving was your past bad behavior?
"i see all these LBS working really hard on themselves, while WAS do whatever they want, with no thought for others. kids, spouses, or themselves."
Weren't you like this too? Again it's a matter of perspective. This is all how you feel, not her. In her eyes she's protecting the kids from you and the hurt you've caused. Let's be perfectly clear. Your W didn't just wake up one day and said she wanted a D. She put up with alot of stuff and when she couldn't take it any longer, then she started thinking about D.
i know life isnt fair, but c'mon..really? thats one of my top 2 fears. she will do nothing to change, and i will want nothing to do with her. number 1 fear is, no matter how much better of a person i am, i will never have my famiy back."
Those fears are totally irrational. Again, she left you because she didn't like you. Period. That's how she sees it. If you're afraid that no matter how good of a person you are, your family won't come back, then you aren't doing any changes for yourself. The changes are to help you rebuild your self-esteem. Get that part of you back and you'll get stronger.
your fear #2 is very legimate, IMO. that's kind of what i'm going through, too. what has made this so is GAL...and time. i've had time to get through all the panic and to think about my H as he really is; not just as the "perfect" man i was losing.
we get to this place because TWO people have failed to take care of the marriage. we believe our WAS's bad opinions of us IN THE BEGINING. as time passes, we begin to remember them as the humans they really are and see the responsibilities they had in the marriage problems. it's kinds of scary thinking about R with that person when we have made so many changes and bettered ourselves...
it does get better, really. but you have to do the work. get out there with other people. do things you've never done before but have always been curious about. stay busy, busy, busy. do more than you want to do, at first, and then do what you like the best. time is a great healer.
bond-
i always enjoy your feedback. you make me laugh..
"why is it that i have to do all this work to get her back."
Because you are the one who wants her back
you make me think...
"dont get me wrong. im all about peronal improvement. my question is, if i am a man only a fool would leave, and she does nothing to changee herself, wouldnt i be a fool to try to R?"
Because you're only like this NOW. She spent years putting up with your bad behavior now. Just because you feel like you're ready doesn't mean that she has to feel it. Why should she go according to YOUR timetable?
there are some things that are not true also..
"why do WAS have all this power?"
Before she left, you had the power. You did whatever you wanted to do and didn't care about her feelings much like how she's treating you now.
i never had the power. as far as doing what i wanted, i didnt do that either. yes i drank. so did she. i chose to spend my $35 a week she allowed me on beer. that was not the best decision, but thats the only decision i made. i was not really allowed to make any others. she said she resents me for that. i did what she wanted to avoid her anger and hurtful comments. not much of a man, i know. that is part of the problem im having with boundries.
i also know my fears are irrational. fears usually are. that doesnt make them any less scary for me right now, unfortunately. i am hoping by recognizing them, i will be able to deal with them in a healthy way. not with anger.
the reason i ask about your sitch is because your early posts sound alot like the stuff i think about. now you give me spot on feedback. i am curious how you got to this place. what you did, what you figured out. that kind of stuff
Bond's post was a good one.
You have really good insights, you just need to believe in yourself and that only happens by make decisions and boundaries and
bug-
thanks. i dont get many compliments outside of work. i used to believe in myself. my W used to tell me i was cocky..usually she was joking.. but i was a very confident person when i met her. that confidence has slipped away little by little. why? i have no idea. i could blame her, but that is pointless. i did it to myself. i dont believe another person can MAKE me feel a certain way. contribute yes, but ultimately its my decision
wrong key
and having successes, one at a time. Everything doesn't suddenly get better, it takes time.
Without getting into too much detail, I would say there wasn't one specific thing that happened to me to make me think the way I do now. Each thing that happened to me I took it as a lesson.
For example, I don't know if you read the part about how my W's boss (the OM at the time) came to my working place to get me fired because he claimed I said stuff about him. This wasn't true. But up until that point I had a level of fear about him. Like he was the one whom my W wanted to be with, so he must have been a better man than me. When he showed up, an overwhelming feeling of calm came over me and I knew at that moment I would be okay. So I essentially told him that while I love my job, I loved my W and family more, so he could do his worst. I looked him right in the eye when I said it with no fear, just power. And he backed down.
There was also a period where my W would just get angry at anything I did for her, so I essentially said 'f' that and started going on dates. Now I never approached any of these women, they always asked me out. After going out with several, I learned that I really did love my W more and kept them as friends. But through that I learned that I wasn't a bad guy after all. Or at least not as bad as my W said I was. So that and other experiences helped to improve my self esteem dramatically.
I also modeled my actions and thinking by learning positive traits from role models I admired. I just took the best of those characteristics and incorporated them into my life. For example, the name "Mr. Bond" did stem from Daniel Craig's version of James Bond. I liked his attitude of doing what was right even though others were against him and the idea of going against impossible odds. I didn't take on the negative attitude that he had of using women for his own ends.
Once I detached I started looking at my W as a social experiment of sorts. In a way that's what DBing is. I did something to or for her and see if it got a favorable reaction. If not, then I would do something else.
Unlike many other sitches, my W's reason for leaving kept changing. I noticed that she went through depressive states after the births of each of our children and even though I mentioned that she should get help, she wouldn't. And I learned to stop changing her in that way.
Oh don't get me wrong, I wasn't the perfect H, but I took care of my W in the way that I thought she wanted me to. I got rid of any bad habits, which there really weren't any. I didn't waste money, abuse drugs, etc. I just put myself in the shoes of my W and became the man I believed she wanted.
Another important thing I did was read anything and everything I could about marriage, relationships, what women think, etc. I even learned how to read body language so I could detect shifts in my W's behavior. If I said something to her and saw that she was starting to get uncomfortable about it, I would slightly alter the conversation in another way until I saw that she was comfortable about it. I also listened to relationship podcasts and audiobooks. I essentially became a sponge for everything. That's actually helped me to save a few of my friends' marriages along the way.
I also put in 200% attention into my daughters and became the best dad I could. I coached, ran workshops, volunteered, etc. That also helped.
After each month goes by in my sitch, things get better and better between my W and I. This past Mother's Day we had a great time together and it was very natural how well we gelled.
I would say the most important thing to learn through all this ... it's patience. Patience doesn't mean waiting around and being a doormat, it means taking the time to learn and grow according to your circumstances. Through that, you learn self-control and strength.
Oh and most importantly, I listened to posters here. I learned alot from Coach, 25yrsmlc, sandi, puppydogtails, and others. Even though I may not have agreed to what they were saying, I took each point and learned an aspect of it. I started thinking that even though I didn't agree with something, maybe my W did.
Bond, I have read many of your posts. IMO ^^^^^ was the best one I have read.
Sorry for the hijack HBSD
JS- mo apologies neccassary. that was very well done.
Bond-
thank you for that. it really does mean alot. i always am reading what you post everywhere. like you said, being a sponge. i really identify with your fear about not being as good as the OM. my W's most recent EA (wich she denies it being that, they ae "just friends". im not getting into that.) was/is with a co worker who is also married. i thought, why is this guy so much better? what does he have that i don't? etc.. so i did some research. he has nothing better than me. maybe a nicer truck. wooppee. he is fat, balding, full of himself and a cheat. most of all he is not a man. after he found out i knew about him, i went to my W's office wit the kids to meet her. he was there. i said "hi X, nice to finally meet you." he wouldn't even look at me. thats when i knew he wasn't a man. my wife is still mad at me for that. oh well, theres alot worse i could have said, but i took the higher road i believe. i am not afraid of not being as good as him anymore. as far ass i'm concerned he is a piece of garbage.
also, my W will not give me a straight answer on why she is leaving/left. it changes so much i have felt like i was losing my mind trying to keep up.
i am also reading everyting i can get my hands on. some of it sinks in, some doesnt. i am trying to implement the things i have learned. that is proving to be easy to say, hard to do. i am doing aa workbook on becoming a better dad also. my kids deserve that. i have always been a good dad, but i want to be GREAT!
patience is my biggest stumbling block. that and fear. why have you kept going? i know why i want to, yet i question it everyday.
my W came to watch the kids so i could go to aa. showed up 2 mins before the meeting started. i really need a babysitter. she ssaid we are going through the kids' stuff sunday. i said i have pplans. she said she has plans saturday. she wanted to know what i was doing so i told her. i asked what hers were, big mistake, aand she flipped out. oh well. tomorrow is another day. i need to stick to the rules and find patience.
today was good when i was working. no time to think. then i get off work, and all the thinking starts. im feeling down again. i know i need to move on. stop dwelling on what should be, and focus on right now. right now isn't a very nice place to be. my W left me, doesnt love me and will not talk without yelling. my kids are confused. i am confused.
a part of me just wants to stop all this. move on. divorce. i dont know. i have always been an all or nothing kind of person. i dont like being in the middle ground. to detach i feel like i cannot be with her at all. if i go that route though, my family is ruined forever. if i put my all into her i am pursuing, and lose her and myself. i dont want that. i am sick of feeling like a pinball.
i have this bad feeling that she is still in contact with OM. her having guys as "friends" is not okay with me. it never will be. i believe it is morally wrong on so many levels. i do not have girls as "friends", nor do i want them. if she dates or keeps talking to this OM, i am so done. i will never be able to look at her or touch her. i will love her always, but will not be able to be around her. we are in a 4 month separation contract that states there will be no dating. i will want her to prove to me that she is not dating or talking to OM. is that wrong of me to want proof? i will happily give her proof that i am not talking to other women.
once again, my mind is all over the place.
Dakota,
What you will or will not do if W,Y, or Z happens? Just file that away for now, you'll actually know what you are going to do if it happens.
Fill your free time. You have a 9 year old and a 5 year old, spend time with them alot of it.
When you're not with them? Work out, clean, burn yourself out.
Cannot fill your time? Get a second job at a convience store. That will not only occupy yourself, but will give you some extra income.
It's easy to say no to these ideas. It easy to say no and sit around with all this free time for your head to make monsters, and allow those monstrs to I don't know...call her...check up on her...drive by her house.
Fill your dance card, fill it right the hell up. those thing sI mentioned? Either get you in shape, gets your crap all clean, or gives you extra money.
Dakota, I like that!
Reaching out to others is a step in recovery. Your post on the other thread was insightful and heartfelt. You are doing great.
Jack has good advice for you above. Keep yourself busy. When I first started in AlAnon, I went to 3-4 meetings a week cause I felt so much better after the meeting and it helped keep my mind occupied.
Your kids are lucky to have you.
thanks jack. that is currently what i am doing. minus the convenience store thing. lol.. and you are right about the monsters. i stopped myself from driving by her work. that is not me, yet i have done it. why i dont know. my working out is going good and only getting better. i start training for te highland games on sunday. i have never competed, so this could turn out very interesting. or at least very funny!
thanks again
really? : )
Don't start lying here. ; )
I knew exactly why I did it.
You're not honest here? And what's the point, might as well say your marriage is swell.
PS - the name? I'm calling you Dakota, because to many names are broken, lost, sad, ...
You are what you want to be, you become what you project...even if it is an act at first.
Right?
jack-
you are right. i do know. i miss my wife. i am scared she is cheating. i have done it to try to put my mind at ease. i also like seeing her car. i feel connected to her when i see it. that is wierd creepy stalker behavior i know, and i am not proud of it. i worry about what is going on at her work, since she works with OM. i have not driven by in a while. another reason is because i am trying to catch her doing something. that is bad because it leads my mind to places i dont want to go. i am suspicious of her and focusing energy there, when it should be focused on myself. i am trying really hard to not care. little by little i am getting there. final reason is i like to put myself in pain. i am comfortable with pain. that goes with my addiction issues. addicts/alcoholics like pain. gives us a reason to use.
i dont mind the name. has a ring to it. even if i am not from here, it is where i am at. i have made the best of it, and i need to make the best of my sitch.
bug- thank you for your kind words. i look forward to your feedback the way i do bond's. you make me smile, think and cry. sometimes all at the same time. you also have said things that give me hope. that means alot to me.
"aand she flipped out. "
When she does that, before she starts getting into it, hold up your and and tell her that she asked you the same question and that you deserve the same respect as she does. And that she didn't have to tell you details, you were just making casual conversation.
Start commanding some respect from her. Is there someone you could model yourself after? Someone you could use as an example to follow?
bond- my hero is who i named my S after. i used to act that way. liam gallager. lead singer of oasis. i used to be confident and kind of cocky. i was younger then. the confidence can still come back. the cocky..im good without it. the things that came out of that mans mouth are the definition of confidence. a real rock star. not this new, i won a tv singing show bs
A little bit of cockiness is okay. There's a certain confidence that comes from being cocky that women enjoy. But not so much cockiness that you sound like an @$$.
It's the confidence that comes from when you know what you want and you know how to get it.
i think thats the way i was. i was very sure of myself. i knew what i wanted and i went after it. she wasnt used to it. she gave me every excuse not to date me. we got married, so i guess my confidence paid off. i was not an a$$..just sure of myself.
that is who i am going to be.
last night i had a good chat with my best friend. he said some things that really got me thinking. he asked why i let the old me disappear. i didnt have an answer for him. he dealt with a similar sitch about a year ago. for him, he let the old him go to try to please his GF. it ended up not working. he believes that the confident guys that we both used to be is what attracted our girls to us. when we started doing what they wanted, it backfired. even though we had the best of intentions, they resent us for that. they want the men we used to be. since he has started to get back to his old self, women have been attracted to him. his ex has started asking around about him. he wants nothing to do with her. that is his choice and i understand. he told me he new i still had rock star in me. i just need to get back in touch with myself. i agreed with him and said i am going to do that. it feels good that someone who knows me so well has seen me let myself be lost. to hear that he has faith in me means alot. motivates me.
out of the blue, a guy i know here texted me. he knows about whats going on with me and my W. he just wanted to let me know he is there for me if i want to start rebuilding my life. then he asked me to play guitar in his band. he had ulterior motives, lol. still feels good though. i told him i would try. i havent played in 11 years. kinda funny, cuz thats when i started dating my W. i let my hobbies go to try to please her how i thought she wanted me too. i let myself go and eventually lost her. its no wonder she doesnt love me anymore. she fell in love with a person that i let go trying to be someone i am not.
so my big decision i have made is, no matter what i am going to be a "rock star" again. it doesnt matter if it makes her happy. i will be happy, and thats what matters.
"Misery is Optional"
Your friend is right actually.
Just be careful when he starts pushing you to leave her...if he does. Money says he will, and then...well hopefully you'll have the rockstar back bone to tell him to back off.
jack-
i understand i need to be watchful of that. he lives 7 hrs away and we rarely see each other. he has never in my life pushed me to do something i didnt want to. he thinks its awesome that i want my M to work. especially knowing what i have been through. he truly is a best friend. he says things i might not want to hear, but need to hear. he listens to me and is empathetic. most importantly he supports me in whatever i feel i need to do. its been like that for about 20 years.
when we started doing what they wanted, it backfired. even though we had the best of intentions, they resent us for that.
I'm going to offer the distaff side of this for a different POV.
My H is a "nice guy"-ask any of a 100 people who know him and that's what they'll say. He rolls with the punches, hard worker, likes to fish, camp, work on cars, never gets mad, always even tempered.
He has said much the same to me, "I did everything you wanted but it seemed it was never enough." That's his viewpont but that's not how I remember things.
I see it as whenever decisions needed to be made, big or small, he took the back seat. Where do you want to eat dinner?: "I don't care, you decide." What do you think about this school compared to this school? (for the kids). "You know more about it than I do, I'm OK with either." Where do you want to go on vacation? "I don't know where would you like to go?" You look so serious, what are you thinking about? "Nothing." The (whatever) is broken, should I call someone or can you fix it? "I'll get to it sometime." Sometime often never rolled around.
And after a bit, I didn't ask his opinion as much. I was programmed, it was faster to just do it myself. I am a controller-fixer, I'm good at making decisions, I get paid to make decisions. Should I have stepped back, yes. Should he have stepped up, yes. We both got lost in the R.
I wanted a full partner, I wanted a man who would say, "I don't know if I agree with that, can we think about?" or "I don't know that much about the 2 schools, let me look into it and let's talk later." or "You know honey, your maternity leave is ending soon, we'd better look into finding daycare."
never gets mad, always even tempered.This is part of the problem too, he didn't know how to express his anger, was afraid of his anger so he bottled it up. So he drank. Then he quit drinking but he still didn't address this.
So, I don't think your wife "got what she wanted" but sometimes the dynamic of 2 personalities create this perfect storm of codependency that isn't helpful to either person.
Thanks for letting me share.
Also, very cool about playing in the band. There's a great GAL.
bug-
your husband sounds alot like me..i always let her make the decisions for fear of upsetting her. early on, if i didnt agree she would lose it. now that i am not agreeing with her now she is back to that, yelling, calling cops, etc.
i agree i havent been a full partner. i did take the back seat. it was easier that way. im ashamed to say that. i guess its karma. because i took the easy road for so long, this is going to be much harder. once she knew i was "hers", it seemed to me that my ideas and opinions no longer mattered. that is strictly my point of view and is probably way skewed.
i too, drank to bottle feelings. mostly not being good enough for her. to me it seemed, no matter how hard i tried, i failed her. whether thats true or not, only she knows. i know i wasnt there like i should be. that is my cross to bear. now i cant be there for her at all.
the band thing...yeah. thats a maybe right now. i havent played in 11 years. should be interesting. could be alot of fun and/or really funny
2 questions:
How did you express the fact that you didn't agree?
What did her "losing it" look like?
bug-
it depended. sometimes i would just say i dont want to do that. other times i would say let me think about it. sometimes i would offer alternatives. i tried brainstorming.
her losing it..yelling starts right away. she would yell about why we should do it her way. if i still disagree, then it would turn into a fight. she brings up everytime i let her down, whether it had to do with what we are talkin about or not. she is very good at sayin things that she knows will hurt me the most. i am a long way from figuring out how to disagree and/or set boundries that dont lead to a personal assasination. today it happened when we got S a cell phone. she handed me some bills with stuff writted all over them. the guy was fillin out phone stuff so i asked her what it means. she got rude right away. what does it look like. figure it out. tone of voice and look on her face said alot. i shut down. again. in the parking lot it started again. i asked her to explain it to me. started yelling at me. i said i dont have to take this. i am leaving. she said what is your problem. i said you dont need to act like such a b1tch. oops. that was bad. i know. ever since she moved out, that has been how she is. very rude. not happy or pleasant to be around. and i am not hardly around her. i dont txt her or call unless it involves the kids. yet i am still treated like trash. i dont know if i want to keep dealin with it alot of the time
She has a lot of anger but I don't have to tell you that. Has she ever tried AlAnon? Not that she would take that suggestion from you but it might help her. I don't think you should raise it with her as that would probably fan the flames.
Just memorize "I feel disrespected when you talk to me that way.If you continue to talk to me in that tone, I will leave." And then leave if she continues. It won't make a difference the first time or maybe not the 10th time or maybe never. But you can remove yourself from the situation.
Was she always in charge of bill-paying in your marriage?
bug-
she went to family night for me at treatment a few months ago. there were some ladies there talking about alanon. needless to say i was the only one whos SO didnt see any progress. thank god my counselor really went to bat for me. anyway, she has been to 2 meetings since then. said she doesnt want to go back because they dont help and they make her more mad at me.
i try walking away. she follows. it really is no fun. so i leave. then i worry about the kids. so i come home. i probably use that as an excuse to come home and fight some more. i believe i am a pain addict.
my W is an accountant so yes, she was in charge of the bill paying. why do you ask?
Now I remember you saying that about AlAnon. Too bad but she may get there in her own time.
Bill paying is a big responsibility and can be a huge worry if the money isn't always there. All that robbing Peter to pay Paul...
Did you sit down and talk about money, budget, etc or were you glad you didn't have to worry about it and left it all to her?
Money issues are a trigger for many people (me for one), maybe she's one of them. That's not to excuse her behavior.
bug-
i tried to talk about money. eventually i gave up. it wasnt worth the fight. and no the money wasnt always there. i do the best i can, but we always seem to be short money for one reason or another. in my opinion, she isnt the greatest at managing money. she likes to buy stuff when she is having a bad day. that is just my perception, and i could be way off.
i know i have done alot of giving up. i understand why she is mad about alot of stuff. on the other hand i feel like she holds things against me because it is stuff she doesnt like about herself. she says i am vindictive. in all honesty the last thing i want to do is fight. i do not do things to try to hurt her on purpose. she does that to me.
i do feel like giving up alot lately. then my mom told me something she read. "there is a difference between giving up and knowing when you have had enough." i think i have had enough. i want to be married to her and live happily ever after. i fear that i have to give up my values in order to have that happen. i dont know if i am willing to do that. i will not be with somebody who is dating other people while being married to me. i am going to require proof. if she wont provide that, i cannot continue doing this. that i am sure of
Don't look at it as giving up, just making a different choice.
But you don't have to do anything right now.
Only you know when you're done.
that is true. i do not want to be divorced. but i cant live like this. maybe i am ready to detach. i dread even seeing her right now. i dont like what it does to me. gets me all confused. bond told me awhile ago to go dark. i should have listened, this is definetely not working.
is it wrong of me to want proof that she is not involved with OM. something besides her saying she isnt. because she has lied a few times about it.
Why is that really relevant now? It's likely you either won't believe her or will get bad news. According to DB, the focus should be on you and getting better for yourself and a better life to come.
If she is anything like my WAW, the anger is there to justify what she is doing. In my case my W will not stop being ticked off at anything I do, the smallest thing sets her off. Why? Because if the anger suddenly disappeared then she would be left wondering why she is causing all this pain. DR says the WAS cannot feel any remorse while they are still angry, they know it deep down inside too. I read a quote on resentment, it is like taking poison and hoping the other person dies.
Just tell her that you want to stay married but not under the current circumstances, and that if it does not work out you will be fine. And you will!
i believe i will be fine. i am grieving the loss of my wife. it is like she died. but i have to still deal with her. it is making the process alot harder for me. my W is also set off by whatever i do. that is why i need to remove myself from the sitch. i do not want a divorce. i do need reassurance it seems. when our 4 month agreement is up, i am going to ask for proof she has not been talking to OM. if she refuses or says they have. it is over for me. i am not subjecting myself to that type of treatment.
i am an owl. my wife is a hawk.. wtf
Hi Dakota, thought I would read up on your sitch since you've posted a few times on mine.
I don't know anything about the 4 month agreement. I read most of this thread but didn't see it mentioned. Did you two agree to not date anyone for 4 months? I have learned through this exp that you either trust or you don't. And that feeling comes from within you. If someone has broken your trust to the point that you are going to demand proof of something then you should ask yourself if getting that proof will really satisfy your worries. I found that my trust issues were rooted in insecurity. I didn't trust someone to want to be with me, to be with me only and so I demanded little tests. There was never going to be a final exam because the problem wasn't them it was me.
A few things that you've said remind me of how my H sounded when he was severely unhappy in our R and just after I walked. He is one of those "nice guys" does everything for everyone, won't confront his boss for a promotion, doesn't like the spotlight, is quietly funny, likeable, and respected. But over time he too decided that he didn't deserve me or some thing like that.
He's said some things since then that shows he's identifed that and wants to change it. Whether he's actually changing it, I don't know. A big thing for him was not to get back together "on my schedule", move into his own place, and date his GF.
This jumped out at me:
protecting myself is kind of foreign to me. i never much care about myself and that is bad. i feel guilty for buying or doing stuff for myself.
When was the last time you got a really good haircut? Or bought new clothes in a trendy shop? I'm betting it was a million years ago. Just buying a new shirt will make you feel amazing. Trust me. And the exp of going into a trendy shop and saying to a sales person I need to buy a shirt, here's my price range, what do you suggest will do wonders for your self esteem.
Make a list of everything you would do if nothing were stopping you. This can be big like travelling or small like taking the kids to feed the ducks. But everything you might have thought in passing "I'd like to do that sometime." And make a decision to chip away at that.
Self care is very very important. Do this for you and if you don't have enough motivation to do it for you then do it for your kids. Think about it from their angle and what kind of Dad they want and deserve.
My therapist gave me some papers on ways to increase self esteem. I'll dig them out and type them up. It's very very easy in the grieving process to get stuck in a poor me self pity. Everyone here wants to help you. Be happy that you found this board sooner than many of us did.
Ways to increase self esteem is to take risks: doing things that you may not do because of a lack of assertiveness. The more risks you take the more your confidence and self esteem improves
Starting up a conversation with someone in line
Going into a cafe alone
taking up a new hobby
acknowledging your strengths to other people
Making time for yourself
buying a different style of clothing
going to see a film you wouldn't normally see
asking for help and support when you need it
giving and taking compliments
eating good food that you enjoy - treat yourself
smile at other people
change your wardrobe - try something new
look into your mirror and tell yourself how much you love and value yourself
Start exercising, dancing, swimming, running
Say no when you want to
pamper yourself, a new haircut, a massage, reflexology
Expect to have a good day and you will
Be creative: bake, do gardening, get crafty
Let go of guilt this destroys self esteem and its ok to let go
make an appreciation list about all the things in life that are good
think about things that you are good at
Go on a weekend break
Let go of negative people in your life: they will make you feel negative too
Look forward, stop blaming yourself for past mistakes: you did the best that you could then now look forward to a positive future.
Brit gave you some great advice. Get busy!
All the questions that are asked by me and others, are not to get you to believe you were the only one at fault in the M. But rather, they allow you to figure out what you own in the break-up and what you are willing to work on.
If you don't fix it now, you will be back in the same place in the future
Now, this: ask for proof she has not been talking to OM. if she refuses or says they have. it is over for me.
As I said before, it's over when you say it's over.
But this sounds like you're asking her if it's over.
Are you again giving her the power so you don't have to make a decision?
I'm not saying you should live in a situation that you find intolerable but you make the decision.
She has a lot of anger but I don't have to tell you that. Has she ever tried AlAnon? Not that she would take that suggestion from you but it might help her. I don't think you should raise it with her as that would probably fan the flames.
Just memorize "I feel disrespected when you talk to me that way.If you continue to talk to me in that tone, I will leave." And then leave if she continues. It won't make a difference the first time or maybe not the 10th time or maybe never. But you can remove yourself from the situation.
I just wanted to add, when you make boundaries, it's not to control someone else or teach them a lesson, it's to protect you, to keep you safe.
Also, never set a boundary you don't intend to enforce.
Cool about the Highland Games!
brit-
thank you for taking the time to read my ramblins. i am glad i found this board. it has helped me to look at myself from different points of view.
i read a book on controlled separation. i got the idea for a separation agreement that we made up. it is for 4 months, to be re evaluated and extended if needed, at the end of that time. one of the thimgs is we will not date other people. i know that requires trust on my part. the problem is, i have been getting lied to about everything, so my trust just isnt there. she has not done anything she said she was going to. yes, i have insecurities. i do not fear the OM. i fear my wife is leaving me for any guy that isnt me. she has repeatedly said she is going to date if she wants. sometimes i think she does it to make me mad.
as far as the proof...i dont think it will "satisfy" me. it would help me make an informed decision. then i question myself. why does it matter? if i am done, i am done. if not, im not. i am not sure i will be able to trust or respect her. i have a big problem respecting someone who treats me like garbage. i would love for her to want to be with me, and me only. this is the 3rd EA that i know about. it is hard to trust, even though i want to.
i am a "nice guy" to a point. i will do alot for people. when they start taking advantage of me, i stop. sometimes i tell them off, sometimes i dont. i have felt like i didnt deserve my wife for a long time. the things she has said to me really hurt my self esteem. being on this board has helped me see that i do deserve her. i am a good person and she is hurt, so she is saying things to hurt me.
i havent got a nice haircut in a long time. i try to look nice with what i have. i do pretty good. as for new clothes, does the clearance rack count? lol.. i spend money on my kids, that makes me feel good. i love watching them play sports and they can be very expensive. especially hockey. it is all worth it.
thank you for the list on how to build self esteem. there are alot of things on there i should be doing.
bug-
thanks again for the feedback. i enjoy hearing questions from people. i really do want to be a better person. i am trying really hard to work on me. some days are better than others but i keep working.
as far as the proof. i will need it. i am not trying to have her make a decision. this one i am going to make. i dont want to make the wrong one. if the OM is more important than me and our family, that is her choice. my choice is to not put up with it. if she really is not talking to him, then we can hopefully move on to work on things. i still dont really know what to do. i am not going to share my wife with other men. if thats what she wants, she will have to find someone else. she doesnt like me talking to other women, and i respect that.
i think i do know what i own in the break down. i have spent alot of time figuring it out. at least what i percieved. she still will not tell me.
the boundries thing is something i am working on. i am not trying to have them to control her. i am having them to protect me. i am so sick of being treated like i have been. that kind of treatment makes me not want to be around her. even now that she is moved out, she is still treating me like sh1t. i dont get it. the reason she was miserable is because she had to see me all the time she said. now she doesnt and is still the same with me.
she is not happy, and still trying to blame me it seems. not mindreading, just how it appears. i could be way off so i am not trying to focus on it.
the highland games i am looking forward to. beginning of september. training should be fun. it goes with my exercise routine nicely. i am going to be in good shape again. i am liking that alot.
as far as the proof. i will need it. i am not trying to have her make a decision. this one i am going to make. i dont want to make the wrong one. if the OM is more important than me and our family, that is her choice. my choice is to not put up with it.
Salvation lies not in the action of another but in your reaction to it.
Your W is choosing right now to compromise her vows. She probably has some very good reasons in her head to back up that decision.
She might have told you some of those reasons.
If you walk away because of that you will be compromising your own vows yes?
When you said your vows did you say:
"I will love and honor you all the days of my life
Unless you don't do the same for me?"
You didn't say that did you?
But that is what you meant isn't it? That is what you're saying up there isn't it?
How does her betrayal make you feel about you?
If you walk away because of her choice you allow that choice to define you
You allow her to dictate what your vows meant to you.
I am not here to convince you to stand for your vows and your M
That is your choice and yours alone. just do it or not do it for the right reasons.
it is the difference between being a victim and victory.
Your victory.
Your success does not depend on your W unless you allow it.
the highland games i am looking forward to. beginning of september. training should be fun. it goes with my exercise routine nicely. i am going to be in good shape again. i am liking that alot.
This is what I meant when I suggested haircut and a new shirt. When you look good you feel good. And working out will certainly give you an energy release!
I suggested a controlled separation after I had a change of heart and he rightly said that was about control. Well he didn't say that he just said there was no way he was going to agree to something like when I'd had my months of doing whatever I wanted. I think that you are a lot like me in that you'd rather have an answer NOW even if it's not the answer you want. But you know what if you DEMAND an answer you might be changing the real one...does that make sense? The last thing a WAS wants is to feel like they're being put in a corner or forced to make a decision.
Someone on here (maybe it was Bug) said that when you want to cling or control the most that's when you need to detach more. This is very very difficult to say you love someone enough to let them have the time and space to be themselves without lording it over them or manipulating the sitch. Like my Dad says, "if it were easy, everyone would do it"
I take comfort in the fact that at the very very very least in 20 years I can look back and say I made have chosen to end my marriage without going to MC, or exploring every option or reading every book...but then I tried to make things right and I gave it my all and during that time I learned a lot about being the best partner I can be to whoever is lucky to be at my side.
TG-
that is a valid point. i did say i would honor her, no matter what. that is something i must figure out. i would like nothing more than to be together again. i do want salvation. i want my family again. my mind and heart are all over the place. i am easily confused. i am confused over what you meant by victory. i dont know if i can ever look at her the same way. so
the betrayal hurts. so bad. it has me feeling like less than a man. i wonder why i was not good enough. why she had to go outside of our M to get what she needed/wanted. what i could have done differently. why there is so much hate and anger. whenever i have been betrayed by someone before, i cut all ties. now whenever i look at her, it hurts. i feel the betrayal over and over and over again. i choose not to think about it. then it sneaks up on me. i know i will never get an apology. i dont really want one.
how do i trust ever again? is it a decision i make? is there something she will do to get me to believe her again? these are rhetorical q's i know.
brit-
i do know what you mean about the answer. that is exactly how i feel. i do want it now, but i do feel if i get it now, it might not be the real answer. i do not want to put her in a corner. i am in that place and it isnt a place i would wish on anyone. i dont like how i feel.
your dad has a valid point. it would be nice if more people would do it. i also want to be able to look back and knew i did everything i could to save us. i need to stop fighting for it. detach is the key. it is so easy to say. i feel incapable of it most of the time. i am not contacting her. when she contacts me i respond if i need to. then she says i dont leave her alone. its a lose lose.
i am having such a hard timr understanding her thinking. i am the type who needs to understand things. i am having problems with the 180 thing too. the behaviors i try to change end up making me feel like a doormat. so that is no change. patience is the only thing i can do. i am so not good at that. she is planning on coming here tomorrow to get kids stuff. i dont want to be here. but if im not, she will take stuff that she is not supposed to.
that is also not fair to my kids. they deserve to have their parents get along for their sake. i want my kids to be able to have the chances they deserve. maybe i am a lost cause. i dont know. maybe i am just a super slow learner.
My dad says that about anything that's really tough. If it were easy everyone would do it.
All those things that you say are hard...that's the 180. I've been doing it for 2 weeks. The first time you're just proud of yourself that you did it! Then it feels easier the next time...staying in that uncertainty. At some point you'll see a return because when your behaviour changes other people's change. It's natural cause and effect.
You see it if you're in a great mood you walk into work and someone is really upset and negative it changes how you feel.
Anyway once you see a return it will motivate you to keep or up.
I used to look at that list of 37 and think that's too hard I can't do that I'm proactive, I take charge, I go after what I want....but everything H says he wants means I can't do that. His number one reason for not working on us is my "strong personality" so I'm stepping back!
Just try it!
now whenever i look at her, it hurts. i feel the betrayal over and over and over again.
this is what i meant by victim.
This is a process and maybe you should read Cat's thread on here about the stages of the LBS
I'll bump it up for you.
You are having raw emotion right now and that is no place to make important decisions from.
I would venture this is likely the biggest decision you may make in your life. It will effect the rest of your life and the lives of your children
And your W.
Victory is when you reach your goals. Is your goal to feel betrayed by your W the rest of your life?
this won't come to you in a day but over the course of many days, months and years. You will never stop leaarning when you decide to make the tougher decision.
So what do you control?
What are your goals here?
brit-
your feedback is very helpful. i have nothing to lose sticking to the 37 rules. i am going to fake being happy for now. eventually i will be, im sure. you are right about how moods can affect other people. i need patience. desperately.
if you dont mind me asking..what made you decide to want to work on your M? how long had you given up before you left.
TG-
i know my emotions are leading me right now. that is why i havent made any decisions yet. my emotions will lead to a bad call on the sitch, i am sure.
my goal is not to feel betrayed the rest of my life. i am having a tough time coping with it right now. i dont know how to move past it. im a really working on forgiving her. that is a process, to be sure. this is a huge decision. it will affect my family for the rest of their lives. i dont want to make the wrong choice.
the only thing i can control is myself. im not doing to good of a job at that. i am not doing horrible either.
my goals are:
-have my W invite me to do something with her.
-to stop obsessing over what she is doing
-to be in a good mood for a whole day
-to treat my kids like the gifts of god they are
-ignore the baiting comments my W makes
-set healthy boundries and stick to them
-continue my workouts
-reach out to more people/ make friends
-try something new (highland games)
-remember how to play guitar
-be in a good mood tomorrow with my W
-get my W to laugh or smile
those are what i have now. still tryin to figure out how to get there
Without even knowing he DB'd the cr&p out of me. I had no idea what was going and I practically had a break down. Seriously I did. I had no idea what I was feeling or why. And then it was the hardest thing to admit to myself that I wasn't as set in my decision as I thought. I had spent so long convincing myself that there was no hope for this that when all these feelings started I didn't know what that meant.
I had convinced myself there was no hope because we were two different people. I felt like he was stuck in his ways, happy with being unhappy, and that's just who he was. When he started taking care of himself, getting into sports, doing things and not checking in with me, and then dating someone I reconsidered it all.
But I should stress none of this is a recipe. If you like control and many of us do then you want a simple formula to make it all go back to a good R. Life isn't like that.
the big difference is that he closed the door completely to me before he started becoming the person I was attracted to in the beginning.
i dont want control. i have never really cared about it. my life has been out of control for a long time. i do want ME back.
so by him essentially letting you go, you came back?