Hey guys - sorry i've started a new thread, but i'm still posting on my phone and can't figure out how to get my old ones! i haven't actually posted too much, but i have read daily, and drawn lots of strength from the support and advice you have all given each other. my husband and i have lived apart since july last year. at the start i have to confess to doing EVERYTHING you're not supposed to -crying, begging, even turning up at his house late at night (oh the shame!). i tried all of the DB techniques but i didn't really get it i don't think until christmas when i finally managed to detach. it just happened. i realised ththat whilst i had contributed to what had happened in the relationship,it wasn't all my fault. i also realised that i could still love my H but value myself too, and realised that, no matter what, i would be ok.
i still felt desperately sad, but for the first time i started to feel like living again. And so i was able to communicate with my H as I would a friend, without the bitterness or the crazy antics. And boy did he notice the difference. Over the last few months we've been talking like we never have before. a lot of issues have been aired, and i'm actually due to be going to stay with him for a while tomorrow. we've a long way to go, and it may not work out, but for the first time in a long time.i think we have a chance. I really juat wanted to share to say that it can happen - my H was completely adament when i moved out that he didn't love me, never did amd wanted a divorce. I just finally accepted that i could not control him, and my words were not the magic cure for him, he had to find his own way.
i also had fantastic support from a DB coach, and would highly recommend the coaching sessions. And i really just wanted to say how wonderful i think this forum is, and how wonderful you all are to be helping and supporting each othrr so much.
Hey Tinker! Just wanted to say thanks for this today, I desperately needed to read one of these...
Can I ask you after you finally detached how long was it before you started communicating regularly with your H? I "think" I have finally detached from my W we haven't spoken in almost 3 weeks so I'm curious as to your experience.
Keep up the good work and good luck!
I loved reading this. I think I needed to see it. I have just realised that 90% of the time I initiate the conversation phone calls or texts so I stopped this week. I've had one text to confirm that he was coming over that night and the days when I hear nothing...well I get to the end of the day and I think that was a day he didn't want to talk to me. Like you I did realise that I can't control or speed things up. I told him that I'd let go. But I think actions speak louder than words. It's so nice to hear that it can turn around.
Good luck keep me/us updated!
this has made my night, thanks...and congrats
Yes, thank you so much for this. It gives me hope that maybe this DBing will actually work. Any more details you could give us would be appreciated. I know every sitch is different, but just reading how you're making it through might provide us with some inspiration.
I'm very happy to hear this! Best of wishes to you!!!
I'm also curious, like broken...how long did you detach? I'm with you broken--going on 4 weeks here and still nothing!
Hi All
Thanks for the replys - sorry I haven't seen them until now. I didn't have any contact with my H for about three weeks - I did find it hard because we always spoke about 20 times a day, but at the time I felt so exhausted I just needed some me time. To be honest though I think the true detaching came when I was back in contact with him but was completely different - I know longer answered his calls on the first ring, was no longer waiting around for him to ring! I was going out and actually enjoying myself, and I was feeling more like 'me' than I have in a long time.
I'm back at the house now - I know it was going to be bumpy because we've lived apart so long, but after having a lovely Saturday and Sunday together, yesterday he was acting really off and told me yesterday afternoon he feels like 'there's something missing' (that old chestnut!). That's all he's said and I didn't particuarly feel like talking to him about it (a bit 180 for me because I would usually just talk and talk and talk at him). Now I'm not too sure what to do - I don't just want to move back out because I feel that will be a massive step back (and legally he can't make me move out anyway). Do you guys think I'm should just stay put but not have any relationship talk?
Have had a text from my husband saying we need to chat and he can'tt help how he feels. I've a horrible feeling he's going to say he wants me to move back out.I think if he does say that, i'm just going to acknowledge how he's feeling, and suggest a date in a couple of weeks to move back out,on the basis that pafking and unpacking is all a bit of a hassle and it'll give me a bit of time to get sorted. and really work hard db-ing in the interim! I think he will be expecting me to either flip out and pack my stuff immediately and tell him thats it, or start lecturing him about what he should/shouldnt be doing - i don't want to do that. I feel like giving up, but I look how far we've come to just get to this point. is there any coming back from 'i just feel there's something missing'?
I'm back at the house now - I don't just want to move back out because I feel that will be a massive step back (and legally he can't make me move out anyway). Do you guys think I'm should just stay put but not have any relationship talk?
Then this post
Have had a text from my husband saying we need to chat and he can'tt help how he feels. I've a horrible feeling he's going to say he wants me to move back out.I think if he does say that, i'm just going to acknowledge how he's feeling, and suggest a date in a couple of weeks to move back out,on the basis that pafking and unpacking is all a bit of a hassle and it'll give me a bit of time to get sorted. and really work hard db-ing in the interim! I think he will be expecting me to either flip out and pack my stuff immediately and tell him thats it, or start lecturing him about what he should/shouldnt be doing - i don't want to do that. I feel like giving up, but I look how far we've come to just get to this point. is there any coming back from 'i just feel there's something missing'?
Not only does he have EXPECTATIONS but so do YOU.
Why are you moving out of YOUR house?
DO NOT MOVE OUT!
Let him move out!
Do you think he's feeling a lot of pressure? Expecting all those feelings to be there immediately? I'm with CADET expectations all the way around.
Can you update? What happened after the text? And yes don't move out!
Hi, thanks for your replies - you're absolutely right, I think his expectations have been through the roof and I guess I had expectations that we would talk things through more. In hind sight (what a wonderful thing!) I probably moved back too quickly. But I'm here now. I know I should have had no expectations, but I've done the best I can at least to to react to them not bearing fruition.
Since the text I have had some sweeping statements from him - 'somethings missing', we're not going to be ok', and 'I'd try if I thought things would change'. I've learnt that my H is very black and white, and reacts to how he's feeling in that moment.
Yesterday he told me that he knows we get on really well, but doesn't feel over our entire relationship (the last 6 years) that we've ever had a great time, and if it hasn't happened yet then it never will. This is in complete contrast to what he's said over the past couple of months
I'm not sure what to do now. He isn't going to come to my brother's wedding in 2 weeks and has cancelled the holiday we were going on in June.
With the house - legally he can't force me out because we're married and that's the law here, but he did buy me out when we separated last year and I have my own place, which is why I'm feeling a bit awkward about digging my heels in and staying.
I'm trying to focus on how far we have come over the past year, but it's hard! Thanks, as ever, for taking the time to post.
Hi Tinker, I've gotten a lot of the same script statements from my black/white H that you have gotten:
Since the text I have had some sweeping statements from him - 'somethings missing', we're not going to be ok', and 'I'd try if I thought things would change'. I've learnt that my H is very black and white, and reacts to how he's feeling in that moment.
Yesterday he told me that he knows we get on really well, but doesn't feel over our entire relationship (the last 6 years) that we've ever had a great time, and if it hasn't happened yet then it never will.
Have you talked to your DB coach since you moved back home? That's a pretty big step/change in your relationship that might require some more fine-tuning of your DB'ing.
Just keep reminding yourself about no expectations, and remember that you can't control any of H's expectations, you can only control your actions and reactions.
Does your brother know about your situation? Can you maybe bring a supportive friend along to the wedding? Can you schedule your own holiday in June? Keep us posted!
Hi Vera, thanks for the post - had a look at your sitch and I can definitely see similarities, though you are doing so much better than I ever did!
Feeling pretty foolish today. Especially when I look back at the start of this post. I came back to my house last night. I really wanted to stick it out but he began losing his temper and hitting the walls - didn't want to be around that.
He was crying when I left. Said he didn't want to do this to me again, but the thought of me being with someone else doesnt upset him the way it should. What have I learnt: it is so easy to slide backwards once you start making headway. I moved back way to soon and with no discussion between us about what would be different. I feel that the damage is now perhaps irrevocable - its just emphasised to him that I'm really not what he wants.
Had a DB session with Chuck. He agrees with my assessment we moved far too quickly, but still thinks H is far from knowing what he wants, classic example him re writing history about our relationship. And also when I agreed to leave (due to his hitting the walls, I just said i didn't realise it was causing him so much distress), he strait away started saying i didnt have to leave straight away. So, I'm down, but not yet out - its just back to the drawing board. Most importantly: I've learnt a great deal from this experience and so from that point of view it has not been wasted.
Was going to change my thread but thought actually I'd stick with it to remind me of the perils of moving way too fast.
H just came round to bring some stuff I'd forgotten in my haste yesterday. I'd finally cleared my bedroom out and got it looking good, he gave me a hand to move my bed. He then stood for a while stroking my hair before giving me a massive hug and not letting go. What have I learnt? NOT TO READ INTO ANYTHING. Was quite nice though.
He's still going on the holiday in June with his parents, kind of hurt but I don't know why I thought he wouldn't. I just said I knew they'd have a lovely time. Will have to try and plan my own holiday!
Posting on here to stop my contacting H. His birthday is next month, and as a surprise I'd booked him a helicopter flight as he's always wanted to go on one. The details arrived today, so feeling a bit low.
Oh no.....Hugs are going out to you.
If it makes you feel better, I have been reading on here all day to avoid feeling low. Today is my 25th anniv...or rather it would have been:(
Thanks April - how are you doing?
Just wondering - has anyone read the passion trap?
Something I don't get - h no longer has contact with any of the friends that were friends when we were together, and doesn't really seem to do anything any more - he used to run, and rock climb, and play football. Has anyone else found this?
Hi Tinker - Thanks for stopping by my thread, I've been following yours, too. I just purchased the Passion Trap today and have read the intro and first half of chapter 1 on the way home. I also purchased "The High Conflict Couple" yesterday but haven't read it yet.
As for the helicopter trip - is there any chance you could get a refund, or take someone else, if you think it will be too inflammatory to give to him right now given his reaction to your moving back in? As for him stopping his activities - maybe he's a bit depressed?
Hang in there.
Hi Vera, thanks for your post, depression is something I've considered, especially knowing his dad has always suffered with it and had a breakdown about 20 years ago. I'm trying my best not to label anything though - it could just be they've all told him they think he's mad and he doesn't want to hear it.
H rang me last night, told me there's no chance for us, we can't keep doing this and he's holding me back. I just agreed, and said its just that I find it hard sometimes to reconciling the 'we' we are now with the 'we' we are now, but I'm getting there, and doing fine. He's gone to his parents for the weekend, and when he arrived sent me a text saying to never be sorry for sharing my feelings with him and asking if I was ok. I had gone out to meet friends and was wearing a dress I wore when I first met his parents. I replied later on and said something along the line of 'wearing my black dress with flowers on, a few people have commented on it, just made me think of the when I wore it when you first took me to meet your parents. Hope you're ok' and ended with a smiley face. He text about an hour later just saying 'night night'. I haven't replied.
Just to add, when he called to say there was no chance, he brought it up. I answered the called, and told him about my day, which was really good work wise. He then said he doesn't feel there's any chance for us. I felt a bit frustrated - fine if I ask and open myself up to that sort of answer, but doesn't he really need to bring it up on his own?!
Tinker
Having read this recent thread I would suggest you find someone else for the birthday gift. That is pretty excessive for someone who is treating you this way. The 180 would be to do NOTHING for his birthday, and I know from personal experience how easy it is to convince ourselves that giving gifts is the "right" thing to do, but I am guessing your DB coach would say otherwise. Also my WAW has found new friends (actually high school folks from 30 years ago) who don't know me or the kids, see one side of our situation, and so will validate her every move, feeling and tactic. Our mutual friends who know us both are probably wondering, like me, when this alien being is going to be returned to whatever planet, and the real person returned. That could be months away, if ever.
Any chance you can go dark on him again?
Thanks for posting UKVA - I had kind of come to that conclusion about the present. I might just go myself, would love to go on a helicopter! Luckily it really didn't cost very much because the company were doing a promotional offer, I could never have afforded it otherwise! I think going dark is the only way now, not to try and be punitive but because I need the time to get myself back again, I was doing so well! And work is good, I have a lovely little house I could be doing work to. I'm understanding more than ever what cadet means about having the gift of time.
I have no reason to contact him at all, and at least I guess my last message to him was a positive one. My brother's wedding is going to be hard, I'm doing a reading about the promises yo make when getting married, but I'm determined to ensure he has the best day ever and doesnt have any need to worry about me. I know h is still going on the holiday with his parents, which again I'll find hard, but there are worse things going on.
I went to a lunch yesterday and sat next to a lady who had breast cancer in 2009 and lost her husband last year. She's just got back from base camp Everest, raising money for charity. Wow! She said she was determined not to let the bad times define her, and she wanted to be a role model for her children.
It kind of reminded me of when I was 19, and my mum past away. I was determined to become a woman she would be proud of. I need to try and find that again. I think it's when you go through turmoil that you can really grow as a person - at the minute I feel that I'm learning, and changing and growing, but my H is standing still.
Oh boy, you are the mirror image of my situation. My WAW refuses to work on anything, did 8 months of MC before confessing that she did it just to get the strength to tell me she is never coming back. So much for the marriage being the client! If you asked her she would still maintain she was an angel and I was the ogre. Fortunately our mutual friends at least understand it takes two people to cause these problems.
If you can, find a supportive friend to attend your brothers wedding. Yes, it will be tough but grow through it. You sound like a strong enough person, and while the reading will feel ironic at best, know that those things are real and important to those attending. When is the wedding?
Just remember that you are going dark for you, don't concern yourself with the impact on him or what he does with it. I went dark (ish, we have kids) about 4 weeks ago and dialed my communication right back to basics. I don't know for sure, but I think my W has seen it and reacted in a negative way, becoming angrier (if that is possible!) with me. However, last Wednesday we saw each other for the first time in 4 weeks and I did a great job with the 4 Cs which I know she saw. Plus I actually looked at her and wondered why I felt so intimidated by seeing her. She looked rough, like she had lost 15lbs which she cannot afford to lose. Gaunt, borderline anorexic.
You know to work on yourself, you cannot control anyone else. If he wants to stand still refusing to grow that is not your issue. As many in this community say, make yourself someone only a fool would leave. Then if he does, you know that you can move on to something so so much better.
As a humorous aside, I have ridden in a helicopter once and I hope you have a strong stomach because my experience was not that great. They pitch and roll in so many ways that I just about held my lunch in. Good luck!
Thanks UKVA, what you say about turning yourself into someone ANYONE would be a fool to leave is a very good point, one I'd forgotten - I need to start making a list of things to keep me focused! From reading other posts, I think your wife reacting negatively is a sure sign she has noticed your pulling back, and it's having an impact on her. you've done really well to keep it going for 4 weeks and not react. I think they look for, or try to provoke reactions, to try and validate their feelings. What you say about her weight loss and looking gaunt - is this a recent development?
The most important thing I need to do now is work on my self esteem - this last time with my H I've found myself thinking he's absolutely right, why would anyone want to be with me, let alone him.
I don't know about anyone else, but I find listening to certain songs really empowers and motivates me to improve my life. At the moment I'm listening to:
Tim McGraw - live like you were dying
Lee Ann Womack - I hope you dance
Ron pope - good day
I know she must have noticed the pull back; I have gone from the long flowing e-mails full of superfluous tidbits to just the facts, Ma'am. While I know it is the right thing to do I wonder if she thinks it is my agreement that we need to get the big D? In her odd way of thinking right now I could see it.
Next Friday we have agreed to meet, just the two of us, for the first time in months. She has been bugging me that we have things to discuss, but my DB coach says on no account talk about big D, just kids stuff and summer schedule. My W is going to get blind sided (I think) when I tell her our current living arrangements are not going to work for the summer and I want a change. Currently we switch between our home where the kids are and an apt on a week to week basis. I agreed to do this while I thought our MC was working on our marriage. Silly me. Since she is a teacher with the summer off our access to the kids would be skewed with our current arrangement so I am going to ask her nicely to let me have the house for at least the summer. Also she IS the one who wants the new living arrangement so perhaps this is right anyway. I don't expect a good reception, but plan to tell her that on 6/17 (Father's Day) when I get back from camping with my son, I plan to be at the house full time. If she is there I will take it as a sign that she wants to work on things, but she will not
My W has always been slim, but what I saw last week shocked me. And I spend a lot of time around runners so I know skinny! It looked unhealthy. My bet is that when she is away form the kids there is not much thought put into dinner, and that she is tiring of the effort single life requires. This is recent and I wonder if my going dim (as opposed to dark) has contributed.
I have been reading another chain this evening "this rocky path WILL smooth out", and there is some great stuff in there about MLC that certainly applies to my WAW including this nugget:
An MLC... is willing to do the tough work... to avoid the tough work...
which describes what my WAW will do to avoid trying to fix things!
Here's a song for you, Maybe by Ingrid Michaelson
Cheers
I know she must have noticed the pull back; I have gone from the long flowing e-mails full of superfluous tidbits to just the facts, Ma'am. While I know it is the right thing to do I wonder if she thinks it is my agreement that we need to get the big D? In her odd way of thinking right now I could see it.
That's the thing - we can't be worried about how the S takes our changed behavior. Only when they feel truly free would they be able to turn around and look at what they are leaving. Thus, even if you wonder that she thinks your actions constitute an agreement to D, that would not be a bad thing. Does that make sense?
Vera. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for the clarification.
Tinker. Sounds like your interaction with H is guaranteed to bring your self esteem down. I guess the answer to that for now is no interaction!
It's been a strange couple of days - H and I still in touch, but less frequently. When we have spoken I've kept it very light and up beat, and just told a funny story of something that happened to me during the day. Workwise it has been a great week for me so far as I've been shortlisted for a national award.
I'm just wondering though - I've started to feel differently. Yes, my preference would be for my marriage to work, and I love my H dearly. But I'm starting to feel more like we're strangers, that the bond we had is gone.....it's unsettling. Does anyone know what I mean?
Sounds like detachment to me. That is a good thing. It will help you as you work through this, no matter where you end up in your marriage later.
Congratulations on the potential award!!
Thanks autumn - i was so pleased to just be nominated for the award - was over the moon to find out i'd been shortlisted.
my h text me earlier asking if he could come round this evening after work. i said i wasnt sure when i'd be finishing but if i was home when he was going past (he has to drive past my house when going to ane from work) then by all means to stop by. he came and was all miserable say he was ill - in truth he really didnt look too good, so as soon as he got here he asked if he could havee a lie down. after a little while he asked me what we were going to do. i was confused by this and asked what he meant, and he said how are we going to sort out the divorce.
to be honest, this made me angry. not so much he's bringing upbthe divorce - i feel ok with that at the minute (tomorrow may be different) but because of how he wants it to work - in the uk there is no 'no fault' divorce, and he wants me to do it first because he doesn't think he has grounds (he doesn't), and second because its my job - he thinks i can do it easily (i can,but i didnt start doing family law so i could do my own divorce!!). I have previously rold hom he can go ahead, and i won't defend or delay it, but he doesn't want to have to sort it! I can't imagine why he would think i would do it!
the main reason i got angry though is that he came round to say this knowing that my brother's wedding is on fri,and that i'll be leaving tomorrow to stay in the hotel we were supposed to be staying in. i suddenly realised that he's come round to say this because he's now 'sure' he wants a divorce but doesn't want to have to do anything about it himself, and without a single thought of 'maybe this could wait until she's back from the wedding'.
i didn't lose my temper or cry in front of him, hut i did say that i have already told him if he wants a divorce then to see to it himself, that he has terrible timing, and then i asked him to leave
i know this probably goes completely against db principles, but i suddenly had enough. i also think he was surprised because i haven't stood up for myself for years for fear of pushing him away - he called a couple of times afterwards to say sorry .
Had my brothers wedding on fri, it was a really lovely day and felt really good to be the other end of the country surrounded by my family whoi am enough for, just the way I am. Soothed my soul a bit, and I managed to do my reading only slightly crying!
On the H front, on the drive up there I had a long think. I know he won't get on with the divorce, he doesn't want to have to do it. I know I said about why should I, but I was so fed up of it all and thought I needed to do something to get me out of this limbo, and if that's a divorce then so be it. I can't believe I did it but I rang him and said fine, I'll do it, i dont want this any more either. And i really didnt. I asked him to drop the petition and marriage certificate in on his way to work and I'd sort it when I get back. That was on Thursday. I thought he'd jump at the chance. Just home today (Sunday), and he hasn't put them through the letterbox, although thurs, fri, sat and today he would have gone past my house, and known he wouldnt have had to see me. On the day of the wedding he sent me a photo of a bear he bought for me when we first got together. He rang me a couple of times the next day to see how it had gone. We've spoken today and he became quite teary at the end. Not sure why. He hasn't mentioned the divorce again and I have not brought it up.
Confused.com.
Just found out H has been having a physical affair with work colleague he had EA with last year. Will post more later. Crushed.
(( ))
Go dark, for you, and take all the time you need.
Thanks Vera - it's one of those things I should have seen coming, just didn't.
H turned up yesterday in tears wanting to talk. Apparently it's been on and off since I moved out. He thought that, because he thought everything was wrong with me and him, that it would be right with someone else. He realised it wasn't, and that actually me and him had everything going for us. He was blaming me for everything, when actually he needed to look at himself.
He says he ended it with her before I
oops, hit submit too quick.
He ended it with her before I moved back in. But then he felt so guilty that I didn't know, and felt he had to tell me. But he thought then I wouldn't want to be with him and so he decided to just ended it. He felt very confused, and it took him a few days to realise he wants to be with me, and so he had to tell me everything before there could be any chance of that happening, fuly aware that I might just walk away.
I just listened, then told him I need some time. I think for the first time he has been honest with me, and he was actually talking to me for once. If we were to ever have a chance, he was right I needed to know. I just don't know how to even go about processing it and dealing with it. I can't understand that she was happy to be seeing him, knowing that he was trying to sort things with me. I can't bear the thought of them sleeping together in our bed, the one his Gran brought as an engagement present.
Anyone with any advice, I would be so greatful.
Wow. What a boomerang.
Okay - first - stop thinking about H and OW. He has told you it's over. It's actually pretty amazing that he seems to be showing actual remorse - do you think it's genuine? You can always get a new mattress later, new linens, paint the room, move the furniture around so it looks different, whatever. That's not quite as important right now.
Second - I would make another appointment with Chuck ASAP.
Third - if for some reason H brings this up again before you can talk to Chuck, I would say something like "I just wanted to say that I thought it was really brave of you to come forward like you did and admit what happened and be honest with me. Honesty is really important to me and is something I need in a relationship. I appreciate that you told me. I need a little more time to process what you said so that I can give you an honest response." Or something like that (making this up on the fly). At least until you can talk to Chuck and figure out what's best for you.
Forgiveness is the hardest part, but most important.
A friend told me something the other day regarding his parent's D when he was younger.
He said his father told him that he wanted to come home to his mom. But he felt like he screwed up so bad with the OW that he was scared to come back. He didn't know if he hurt her too bad and if they could overcome it.
Instead of coming home and trying to reconciled, he took the easy way out and walked away.
It is a natural emotion. How many times have you heard stories of kids that run away and don't come home because they are too scared of what they did? How many lives were lost because someone thinks they screwed their life up so bad they can never get it back, so they end it?
The one thing I try to let my Ds know is that no matter what they do, no matter how bad they screw up, that I will always love them and not to be too scared to come to me when in trouble. My oldest D is 13 now. In a blink, she is going to be in high school. She is going to do what I did in high school. I am trying to hammer it in that she can always come to me, no matter what. Do not make a mistake like drinking and driving because she is too scared to call me for a ride because she thinks I will be mad.
By no means are we accepting their behavior. We are letting them know they have a safe harbor.
Regarding the sleeping in the bed, it is just a bed (at least that is what I am convincing myself). If my W and I reconcile, "our" bed is going in the trash and I am buying a new one.
I really don't have any advice to offer I just wanted to say my heart goes out to you. I know that punched in the gut crushed feeling and I'm sorry you're going through that.
Thanks guys fpr the messages - your support has helped me a lot. what a week. i know my H has been trying really hard to convince me things are differemt now, that he knows he wants me. but OW has turned up three times at his house telling him its not going to work, he doesnt love me and doesnt want to be married. he has told me about this so i believe he is trying to be honest with me.
i made a huge mistake though. on friday he asked me to go out and stay at his fri night. i agreed even though my gut was telling me it wasn't a good idea. we had a lovely meal, but too much to drink, and when we got back to his i got very upset and ended up going home. since then he has been very off with me, and has said nothing has changed (one of his complaints was we always seem to argue when we go out). i shouldn't have had anything to drink and now keep wanting to ask him for reassurance, which i know i cant do. also, she is still ringing him although he is saying he isn't answering.
i dont know what to do for the best.