Hi,
My previous thread was DBing while settling finances. I am not sure how to link the two.
Val, I hope you will find me here as I wanted to answer your question about who I want to be:
I have committed myself to an eat/pray/love year (without the cool year of travel unfortunately) in order to grow as a person. Who I want to be:
less in my head, more in my heart
more passionate, flexible (less rigid) and open to new things/ideas
more open and authentic in my relationships
better at developing new relationships
more assertive (able to identify and express my needs/wants/feelings/thoughts)
a better listener and communicator
more secure and self confident (move out to the victim role on the drama triangle)
more balanced, peaceful and calm (less anxious, better able to let go/not try to control)
better able to live in and enjoy the moment (regardless what is going on w/ my W)
what am i doing to get there:
1) improving my self care (showing myself that i deserve it and that i can take care of myself, i do not need to be rescued.)
2) reading and reading and reading (Pema Chodron, Lynn Forrester, DR, Jack Kornfield.... etc, etc.)
3) saying yes (to social activities/invitations I would typically decline.)
4) finding more activities to try (seeking new interests/passions)
5) seeking out ways to meet new people
6) journaling/writing
7) seeking ways to solve problems/difficulties on my own versus asking for help immediately.
8) identifying my defenses/barriers/issues instead of avoiding (using therapy, feedback) and dismantling them to fee the abandonment, the losses, the insecurities piled up behind them.
9) committing to daily form of meditation
10) go on a trip alone
11) research retreats/growth experiences and schedule at least one
12) proving to myself that i can be alone and live alone (i realized that i have not really done either in 20 years.) Hopefully, by doing this I can add "and be happy." to the end of that sentence.
Thank you, Val, for once again making me think and stretch. ((( )))
oops, I meant "move out of the victim role."
was that a freudian slip?!?
My previous thread was DBing while settling finances. I am not sure how to link the two.
Link to first thread.
I think it is a good list of goals to start with.
Should keep you busy for the time being.
Welcome to your new thread.
A new thread brings change in us and that is a good thing.
OK. Not sure if I blew it today or not.
I got an email from W asking for info again for the D papers.
I called her in a weak moment. I had been hoping that she would spend some time after her move, thinking about things, before filing. She has been running non-stop since this started and I was hoping she might S L O W down.
But that obviously is not the case.
She said that she is sorry I am still hurt. I said that I am not doing this from a place of hurt, that I am standing up for our M bc I believe in our M and that what we had was worth fighting for. She said that she fell out of love with me, and I said that it happens and couples work through it and if she fell in love with me before, she could do it again. I said that she fell out of love with me bc she felt rejected even though I never meant for her to feel that way or knew she did.
I asked her about the promise we made to each other that we would go to therapy if we ever had problems.
She replied that we went 2x and she felt no different. I explained to her that we had been apart 4 months (we barely had talked or seen each other) before we went and that it was weird then for me too. That I did not want to kiss her or be close either because it felt so foreign and scary and that it would have taken time to get used to each other again.
I said that this is one reason why most therapists suggest a 6 month commitment to working on the M while you try and reconcile, to give it time to feel less scary. I even mentioned attending a weekend like RV.
That was most of our conversation.
I know this was probably horrible DBIng, but she set so many "boundaries" over the past months that I feel as if I never got to say much that I wanted to say.
I feel as if, for some reason, the gay and lesbian communities are not as respectful of our own marriages as they are of straight marriages. Why is that? I feel as if my W and her new friends have treated this like a regular break-up and I wanted my W to know that we are legally M and that I was going to stand up and treat this M like it deserves to be treated.
At the beginning of the conversation, she asked if I was going to send the info for the D papers. I told her she already had it. She said that she didn't. I said that I would think about it which made her angry.
I think I am going dark now. (Or I should put that I am going to try...I can't seem to stay dark....) is that the right thing? I am going to ignore her request for info. I am not helping her with the D.
Is what I did totally inconsistent with DB?
So you fell off the horse.
All you can do is pick yourself up, dust yourself off get back on and start riding again.
In the long scheme of things it will not matter, in the short term it HURTS. So the best thing I can say is when you touch a hot stove after you have been told not to do it at some point you will believe that it really is HOT and you are not suppose to touch it.
I hope you understand how that translates into DB'ing.
Let her go.
Stop pursuit.
That is not going to get her back.
She is in CONTROL right now.
However I can honestly say that in the END it is the LBS that gets to decide.
The problem is that most LBS are too impatient to wait for the END.
They mostly give up.
That choice is always yours.
Everything she is saying is SCRIPT, I have heard it thousands of different times in different stories.
Believe the SCRIPT, and follow along watching the movie.
I can get you some popcorn to eat while you are watching.
That is what you need to DO.
Yes - GO DARK.
Thank you Cadet, for being so patient with me.
Somehow I convince myself that reason will prevail and that she will be able to see things more realistically (that trying/working on things before the big D makes sense)..but she never does...and you are right, the stove is hot.
i think the D step feels so final to me bc gay and lesbian couples had the right to marry for a few months in 2008 and we did do. Since then, that right has been taken away. If we D, we can not reM in our state.
Last night, I wrote a chronology of our break-up. It shows how crazy this path has been. I will post it here later today instead of sending to her.
Well, the burn is painful and red enough to keep me from contacting her for now. Wish I could prevent it from healing so much that I forget it and touch the stove again.
Thank you again for your patience and support, Cadet. If I go back all the way in your posts will I be able to see your story? ((( )))
If I go back all the way in your posts will I be able to see your story? ((( )))
Yes some of it.
Here is what I can suggest
This will work for anyone posting on this board.
Click on my name
Hit View Posts
Then a new page comes up with all my posts
In the upper right it will say
Topics Created/ALL Posts
Click on Topics created.
That will get you to the part of the story that is here.
I can tell you that I do not only post here.
Like I posted on StubbornDykes thread I am advising someone else that read your thread and wants to meet you/talk to you.
Because of the TOS that is all I am willing to say right now.
But feel free to read my thread.
Not sure it will help you but I have learned a lot in the last 3 years.
There is a lot of good information to be understood.
I do understand your feelings about the law in california and I have no real advice about that. Did you read here Wonka's thread?
She went through her own MLC.
I liked her and things she wrote gave me great HOPE and understanding.
If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
Thank you Cadet, I think you are an angel.
I read some of Wonka's old posts about her MLC and it does give me hope and understanding as there are similarities to my W's journey.
I also started reading your thread and really noticed how you asked such great questions and were so open to learning during the process.
It made me think of my own questions. Do you consider W's relationship with OW an affair since we are separated and she has made it clear that she is moving through with the D? Would it be helpful for me to learn about the types of affairs?
I am dark now so it will not be happening but I still wonder. When W throws out apparent contradictions (like telling me that she advised a friend to get MC when W refuses to go herself) do I bring attention to the contradiction or not?
Is it better for me to ignore her request for me to answer questions for the D papers (I already have explained that I will not help her bc I disagree with the D) or is there a better response?
The weekend went really well. I GAL'd and had FUN, it did not feel as forced as sometimes in the past! Yay! Before, I was often "faking it until I make it" but now it feels more genuine. I reconnected with two old friends and met some new ones. I feel hopeful that I will be ok no matter what.
I do not have any family in California (mostly east coasters) except a niece who travels a lot for her work. I called my sis in NY this weekend. I had been close to asking her to come out for a bit because I was feeling so badly last week. I told her about it and she offered to come out anytime I need her. I feel much better now, but it sure does feel good to know that she would come if I need her.
I think that this loss has so many layers that I am slowly pealing. I took care of both of my parents and lost them to cancer within a year of each other when i was in my 20's. I don't think I had the strength to grieve them fully then. This loss has come up now for healing and understanding. Add that to how I have neglected my own needs in the "guise" of helping others. I just put together how that has made me depend on others to meet my needs and hindered my self-confidence.
Cadet, if I can help anyone else, please let me know. I would appreciate the opportunity to use this for good. Lesbian relationships are different because the biology/hormones/emotions of two women, the interplay between each partner's history of possible shame or loss during the coming out process and the impact of society on the relationship. There is a great deal of internalized homophobia that is often below a conscious level.
There is also the joke about what a lesbian brings on a second date.... a pick-up truck to move her stuff in. While that is a stereotype, there is a grain of truth.
Off to therapy today. I will post more later.
Two days NC! Yay!
Do you consider W's relationship with OW an affair since we are separated and she has made it clear that she is moving through with the D? Would it be helpful for me to learn about the types of affairs?
Yes it is an affair.
I don't personally think it matters what type of affair it is but will admit that their are many POV of this subject.
When W throws out apparent contradictions (like telling me that she advised a friend to get MC when W refuses to go herself) do I bring attention to the contradiction or not?
No stay dark.
Is it better for me to ignore her request for me to answer questions for the D papers (I already have explained that I will not help her bc I disagree with the D) or is there a better response?
Same answer as above. Dark.
I called my sis in NY this weekend.
This is where I live.
Cadet, if I can help anyone else, please let me know. I would appreciate the opportunity to use this for good.
Well like I said I am mentoring some one else that has read your thread but I can not figure out anything past that at the moment.
You never know maybe we can work that out.
We can not change the rules that they have here.
And we must be greatful to MWD for providing this forum.
Keep reading. learning and posting as those are all good things.
You will get your opportunity to PAY this forward, I am sure of that.
I'm new here but I just wanted to say by posting and journaling you are helping. I'm still on moderation so it takes awhile for my posts to update in the meantime I read other's stories. I find out there are other people feeling how I do and having the same fears/worries etc. Sharing is helping. thank you!
Thanks, Cadet.
I am still dark, almost through day 3. i can do it.. I can do it.
I am angry today. During our M, we had promised each other that we would get therapy if we ever had problems. I feel cheated that she did not follow through on that promise and try to make this work.
I am angry that she writes to ask me for help with the D on questions she could answer herself if she made a simple phone call. Or that she asks me questions about doing HER taxes without even trying to do it on her own first. As Cadet put so aptly, I have been fired and who contacts the person they fired for help or does not prepare to handle things before firing them?
I know, I need to detach more and not be angry, just not help her.
i do feel more like myself again.
Being dark does get easier. Just keep the focus that it is to protect YOU. It's not a tactic to get W back.
And being angry is normal...
... just tread carefully NG. Even now after almost 18 months, I find myself getting angry and have to check my heart on things...
Because an action can have two VERY different motives.
Even though you don't want to, there are going to be times where you DO have to provide the info your wife asked.
It's sh!tty.. but hey.. you two are still married so it is what it is.
Taxes may be one of them.
Stick to your boundary but be kind, polite and respectful. Try.. but if you can't do that - then go as dark as possible.
Do your best to decipher when your w is being lazy vs. when she actually needs you to participate.
Thank you, Val.
You are so right. I am trying to check myself. We will end up owning an investment together and I will need to be able to deal with her in some fashion until one of us wants to get out of it.
Just to check myself here about the 2 questions she asked me:
1) the first one she can make a phone call or look at a statement she receives monthly for the answer. yes, she obviously does not realize it, but i know that i exhaust all possible avenues before i ask her any questions, it seems like she is not even trying.
2) the second one (another mortgage ?), she can not call about but i have answered it several times by email over the past two months as part of our figuring out the settlement. she said something about losing emails as part of her move. but her request is to complete the D papers and I am sure people can file without their S providing all the info, right? i am also not sure that her losing emails should be my problem anymore.
So. please everyone give me your thoughts on if I answer or not?? I am ignoring her request at present. I do want to be fair, kind and respectful but I also want to set boundaries. Suggestions??
Instead of being in the least way apologetic for needing my help, she got angry when I said that I needed to think about her request... Am I being unfair? I do not want to be.
Concerning taxes, I do need to work with her on parts of it as we were married in 2011. However, she asks questions before even trying to do anything and that frustrates me. I will work with her when we reach the point that we need to put stuff together.
Thank you Val for your insight. ((( )))
Thank you for stopping by, B45. I will check out your thread too. ((( )))
I am the queen of getting on and off horses!
Every day is a new day. My horses are getting less rash, less neurotic and crazy,
I said I wasn't going to call him and I did. Ho hum.
LOL B45, I love the way you express yourself.
Btw, I am on day 4 N/C and am confused as to why today seems more difficult. I feel more of a free-floating anxiety about it all.
I honestly think that when you first start going dark it's a bit of a challenging and then you're waiting to see if they'll react and then (at least for me) you find they haven't made contact (I get all victim-y "another day he was fine not to talk to me") and then you get a bit panic-y. You question if you've done the right thing when will it happen. You start to think that at the begin you were controlling the situation and now you're not controlling anything.
I am seriously now looking at going dark not about manipulating or controlling the situation but instead to give myself space to not think is he going to text me back, what's he going to say etc. I have to email him tonight. He asked on the phone I send him details about SS doc appt. But step back or your own sanity. I'm not going to add in anything extra to the email because I don't want to be hurt if I don't get a reply. Use the N/C to keep yourself sane!
Use the N/C to keep yourself sane!
YES!
It is to protect YOU not to punish them.
Day 5 of N/C
Okay, I am confused. I expect this to get easier (N/C) but it isn't. I am wondering more, not less, about what W is doing, especially concerning OW and the D papers (she is "thisclose" to filing.)
Vets, does N/C get easier? If so, when did you start to see a change?
I have been N/C in the past but always with the knowledge that she would need to contact me soon about something.
Thank you.
Hi NG,
I'm no vet, but I think during N/C when you start wondering about your W, you need to focus on GAL activities. What are you doing on that front during N/C?
I tell myself that P is on a long silent meditation retreat, so I can't expect to hear from her for quite some time.
Then I let Pia mantras fill my head... "Who she is is none of my business..."
It's tough. Get exercise and do whatever you need to do to take good care of you. Keep moving so your brain doesn't get stuck in those bad places. Do your own internal work and that will put your focus where it belongs.
And those really hard spots - sometimes you just have to distract yourself to get through them, but sometimes you have to sit with the scary, uncomfortable feelings long enough to let them run their course. They pass. And it's empowering to realize that. It takes away the fear that controls us.
Hang in there!
Needing Grace
You are a pursurer, a fixer.
You are only five days into this, will it get easier?
Eventually, but consider yourself right now like a drug addict.
You have been taken off drugs and you are going through withdrawal.
You are going to have ups and downs.
The advice that you are getting to GAL or excercise is good.
This is all within YOUR control.
Hope this helps.
P.S. When you said you were going to read my threads I decided to do the same thing and read what I had written here. My threads stop about 2 years ago. But there is a lot of good info there. Maybe someday you will be able to find the rest of my story.
You are doing fine.
Thank you verab754 and SD. I really appreciate your kindness and support.
My job allows me a lot of time to think. That can be difficult. But it is my responsibility to take charge of what I think. Today, I wrote down some positive quotes and placed them around my house as reminders to reframe how I look at this place, at this moment in my life.
I also got some exercise today and did a meditation. Both felt good.
I struggle with finding/knowing the balance, SD, of allowing my feelings, but not wallowing in them or avoiding them. How do we know when there is a balance there?
SD, I read a book on codependence but not by Pia. I will order one of hers today. I really like what you have said and the small amount I have read online about her work.
Quote for today: "We must be willing to let go of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us." Joseph Campbell
Thank you, Cadet. What you say is very true. I am an addict and as you were writing, I was ordering Pia Mellody's book "Love Addiction."
I will find the rest of your story, Cadet.
This sounds a little woo-woo or whatever but something that helped break the cycle of constantly dwelling on the situation was this:
every time I thought about him, about the relationship, etc I took a deep breath and said outloud "I release you to your higher good. I am free"
I think this works for two reasons. 1) you're having to say something outloud everytime you start to think about them. That makes you break the spiral of thoughts. You have to physically go wait I'm not going to think. Something I did this 3 or 4 times in the same 5 mins. I would have to stop myself and said NO, I release you to your higher good I am free.
Second you are affirming that you want was is good for them and you want freedom for yourself. Instead of talking in negative terms like forgetting, ending, not thinking, you're using positive words.
If you believe in that sort of thing this might work for you. It did for me when I was having panic attacks and couldn't trust myself not to snoop or obsess or even break into tears in public.
I love that idea Brit45!
Except I must admit that the first time I tried it I started wondering if we are part of the higher good for her... LOL. (an obsessive mind will always find a way to obsess.)
I will practice. Thank you!! ((( ))))
Today the first President in history endorsed my right to marry.
I am incredibly happy and excited for same sex couples. I am proud that all the youth in our country get to see our President take such a historic stance. I am proud of our President for his courage. I am relieved and glad that the GLBT youth in our country who have been killing themselves way too frequently due to bullying and ignorance get to see that they matter. This is an incredible day.
Yet, this day is bittersweet for me. I am married, one of the few in California to have this right. I am sad that I want to stay married but my W doesn't. I am sad that she fought for the right to marry and not to stay married.
My heart hurts and rejoices at the same time.
(((ng)), yes it must hurt.
As I drive home from work I listen to the radio. I quit listening to music stations because there were too many love songs
so I turned to talk radio. Yesterday I heard one of the radio psychologists say that marriage is like a beautiful, expensive plant that someone gives you as a gift. You're happy to receive it but some plants take a lot of work.
If you put them on the shelf and don't take care of them, they die.
Today the first President in history endorsed my right to marry.
I am incredibly happy and excited for same sex couples. I am proud that all the youth in our country get to see our President take such a historic stance. I am proud of our President for his courage. I am relieved and glad that the GLBT youth in our country who have been killing themselves way too frequently due to bullying and ignorance get to see that they matter. This is an incredible day.
Yet, this day is bittersweet for me. I am married, one of the few in California to have this right. I am sad that I want to stay married but my W doesn't. I am sad that she fought for the right to marry and not to stay married.
My heart hurts and rejoices at the same time.
Like
Visionary Leadership ... how I long for those days of Visionary Leadership in my country. Seems everything is driven by Opinion Polls and popular-opinion ....
Here's to the future where we embrace each others choices and celebrate love where ever we find it!!!
Oh yeah, I meant to comment on that.
Thanks, Mr President!
Thank you bug. ((( )))
I stopped listening to music stations too for the same reason. And I love music, have tons of CDS, have always used it to relax and enjoy life.
I was at a party last week where they were playing Latin music and I felt really happy listening to the music there. I realized that I enjoyed it bc I could not understand the words.
So I have decided to start seeking out some Latin or instrumental music so I can avoid love songs but enjoy the uplifting spirit of music in my life.
Hi Walking,
Thank you for stopping by and for your support.
I took a look at your thread and was inspired by your strength. Thanks for sharing it.
Good morning DBers,
I made it through day 5 of N/C.
I have been using a variation of Brit's mantra and have been telling myself that my W and my M are in God's hands and I am free. (Thank you Brit!)
Free to focus and work on me. Free to be loving to others. Free to find my own happiness. Free to be happy. Free to grow. Free to let go of the addiction, the victimhood and the control which weighs me down, entangles and keeps me feeling trapped. Free to see beauty. Free to explore the world.
I have been using Jack Kornfield's CDS to meditate. (Love him!) My favorite is entitled "The Earth is my Witness" and in it, Jack leads me through the parts of the body and releasing all my pains/thoughts/feelings/heaviness/stress back into the earth. I love this meditation and it really helps me start each day from a new place.
You are all in my prayers today with immense gratitude. I am a witness to your strength and I am a beneficiary of it as well. Thank you.
Free to focus and work on me. Free to be loving to others. Free to find my own happiness. Free to be happy. Free to grow. Free to let go of the addiction, the victimhood and the control which weighs me down, entangles and keeps me feeling trapped. Free to see beauty. Free to explore the world.
Sounds good!
Made it to day 5, one day at a time.
Great post, ng!
Yes, the world is full of wonderful possibilities.
Yesterday I heard one of the radio psychologists say that marriage is like a beautiful, expensive plant that someone gives you as a gift. You're happy to receive it but some plants take a lot of work.
If you put them on the shelf and don't take care of them, they die.
Is it a bad sign that I have fake plants in my house? oh dear haha
NG that was just beautiful post!! No one likes a victim not even the victim haha.
I love the phrase "Free to see beauty" I think that we can get so wrapped up in our drama that we don't even take a minute to see the world around us. Small things like light in the trees or new flowers that bloom.
I think you sound like you're in a good place. And I love your mantra. I do think that "higher good" can still include a R, but I'm seeing that with a beginner's mind. There are many many possibilities for both our sitchs.
I'm a big believer in gratitude as well! I know of people going through D who are having horrible times involving restraining orders, changing locks, or affairs with friends of theirs. I just take a deep breath and am grateful for my sitch.
I am almost through day 7 N/C. Yay!
I actually had a moment where i had an innocent crush on someone the other day... i felt so good after that because i did not know if i would ever feel that way again!! I am committed to being on my own right now and working on me, but it felt good to actually feel interested in getting to know someone besides my W.
I am slowly letting go of the anger..
I am learning that I need to be here right now..to grow.
I am embarrassed by how I pled, begged, cried when this began.. and how i have continued to try to hold W to her promise that we would go to therapy if we ever had problems...
for whatever reason, she is not able to do that, and my pressure just makes her feel guilty and want to run further away.
i will learn from this.
Yes
You will
If you choose to.
When you said your vows did you say?
"I will love and honer you all the days of my life
Until you don't feel the same way,
Unless you become confused. So confused you don't know how to love me. So confused you run away from me.
But for that
until death do us part."
Is that what you meant? Is that what anyone means when they say they love someone to that degree?
A question for you to answer. yes?
regardless
I popped over to my friend NG's (I need to not call you that. It makes me think of Nancy Grace) thread and TG made me cry.
I am embarrassed by how I pled, begged, cried when this began.. and how i have continued to try to hold W to her promise that we would go to therapy if we ever had problems...
for whatever reason, she is not able to do that, and my pressure just makes her feel guilty and want to run further away.
I felt this way too. Someone on here said keep the road home paved clean or something like that. I had about 3/4 weeks of craziness and he's said that he understands I was in a bad place.
You are doing amazing at 7 days! Really fantastic! Now no more guilt, what's done is done. A lot has happened in the past month...give yourself a big hug and continue to take care of you!
BIG HUGS!
LOL at the Nancy Grace comment, Brit. That started my morning off just right! Hilarious!!
Brit, I love your enthusiasm for your life and your M despite the situation at present and I am so grateful for you. You are amazing! ((( ))))
TG, thank you for stopping by and for your insightful and inspiring words! I want to love and honor my W that way. I tend to look back and regret but that is a trap. I will start again now and commit myself to keeping my vows through the hard times and the good. Thank you. ((( )))
The mail yesterday brought Pia Mellody's book on Love Addiction. I started it last night and am grateful to SD for the suggestion. I would read more but... it is a beautiful day in Southern California and I have a busy day of GALing planned. have a great Saturday, dear DBers!!
I hope you had a great day out yesterday! I am determined to enjoy the sunshine today..even if it's taking the dog for a walk!
The first go round with no contact is very hard.
It does get easier.
Keep moving forward.
Thanks, bug. ((( )))
It is starting to get easier.
I have started reading Facing Love Addiction by Pia Mellody.
I feel as if W and I switched in and out of Love Addict/Love Avoidant roles (we both displayed behaviors of both) at times during our M.
Now, I am 100% in the Addict role and she is in the Avoidant...but I wonder if this is an outgrowth of how we switched in and out of both roles during the M. (Pia has a short section on switching roles and I would like to understand more.)
I know that when W first left the M, she verbalized a great deal of anger with how she felt I was distant and had rejected her...but she also was angry with me for being needy. It felt like a contradiction to me, but maybe not.
Did anyone else recognize this in their M?
Day 9 NC
I came home tonight and I received an email from my W telling me that she is filing for D this week.
This is part of the email:
"I know we have both done things throughout our time together that hasn't been in the best interest of our marriage. I am taking responsibility for my actions and inactions. Our relationship was great on some levels. We knew how to get along, we cared for each other and we like doing some of the same things. But for me, their has been something missing for a long time. I have wanted to love you the way I thought you loved me. I have always wanted to give you that gift, and I believe I was successful most of the time. I worked hard at seeing past my own needs and putting yours first. (without you knowing it, or asking me to). I am sorry that I have hurt you so deeply. That bc I wasn't able to be truthful with myself and ask for what I needed or wanted that we got to this place. I know that I love(d) you deeply and I know that i have been in love with you at times. The problem is, that I feel like I always had to work at that part. That it wasn't something that just was. I am not telling you this to hurt you or make you feel bad in any way, I am telling you this to help you understand. I am so sorry i can't be the person i so very much wanted to be for you. You have a lot to offer someone and I am sorry I can't be the person to receive all you have. My hope is that you can find peace in my decision and move on. I am at peace with it and know it is the right thing for me."
Help me make sense of this. It is hard not to be sad.
Can you kind DBers help me put the above email in perspective? Does it still sound MLC/WAW?
Nowhere does she answer the question I have...why end things without trying a few months of therapy?.. I guess that is what bothers me the most, not that her feelings changed, but that she never tried to see what would happen if we went to therapy. We have both benefitted from therapy in the past and had promised that to each other. I feel as if she can't, as if what is driving her inside will not allow it.
Thank you.
I can't put anything in perspective today but I'm sorry you're hurting.
NG
((( )))
Yes.. the email from your w has been seen on this board before.
That doesn't mean it's not her truth.
WAW rewrite history. They have their own perspective on things..
..just as you will have yours.
I understand the why's and the not understanding.....
... my advice is just to accept it. You don't have to agree. You don't have to understand.
Just believe that this is where she is in her journey. One she wants to take alone.
Your w didn't make this decision when she dropped the bomb. She made the decision long before that. Built up over time, with many instances. She battled her doubts and fears with it...
So by the time she dropped the bomb - she has made up her mind. Her feet firmly planted in this new decision.
Look at her email - shift through the WAW spew and see if there is truth to anything she is saying.
Work on those parts, work on becoming a better you...
.. and leave the rest up to God.
Thank you, Val. You are always so kind. How are you? I have been wondering how you are doing. ((( )))
I will sift through it for truth. I know there are some things that I have already taken responsibility for and am working on and I will look for more.
I so wish I had had a clue before the BD. I would have done anything to work through this. that is such a bitter pill to swallow.
But I need to remember what I believe, that this place is an opportunity for me to grow.
On a positive note, I have done a HUGE 180 and have not contacted her about the email. I am on day 10 NC!!
She is coming here for gay pride and to file for the D.
I think I will sit and write a gratitude list. I saw that on labug's thread today.
Okay you know that thing about believe half of what they do and none of what they say...do that.
Yes I think I felt some of that and now I don't. I can't explain that.
When I read it I get an overwhelming sense of guilt and grief from her. She feels like she failed. She failed in loving you, she failed in being what you wanted, she failed despite what she believes was her best efforts to make it work. I have been there. But it didn't mean that I felt like anything could be done...not then.
She's working through her own stuff and she's hurting. I remember crying and staying on the sofa for a whole weekend because my marriage was over. That didn't mean that I tried to work on it, or thought it could be saved. I don't even know if at that point I would have been open to that thought. I was just hurting.
I'm afraid I can't tell you how to proceed from here. That's for more advanced DB'er than me. I am proud of your NC. You're keeping that bridge home in tact which is harder than it sounds.
((((((HUGS)))))))
I noticed you asked Brit to check out an email from your W and figured I'd stop in, myself...
You know the canned response... whether your W is MLC or not, the work is the same...
But I would personally state that your W's email sounds very clear to me. There does not appear to be any confusion about how she feels things were and appears to be owning her portion of responsibility... in fact, it appears that your W has done some good introspective work...
The work is the same, but unlike MLC you have great opportunity to shine, RIGHT NOW!
Become a man that only a fool would leave... but become that man because it will benefit YOU and may also benefit whom ever might be your partner in life in the future... and your W WILL notice... and maybe... she might choose to not be a fool...
and by man - he means WO-man.
oh geeze! I think I'm blushing! Thanks Val!
Sorry NG! *blush*
LOL Kaffe Diem! No worries, that was too funny. I did the same thing myself when Cadet had me check out a sitch. Thank you for stopping in.
I know she sounds clear and introspective... and parts of it I buy and own.
But it is so hard for me to imagine that she spent the last 10 years working hard to love me. It never ever felt like that. It felt totally the opposite actually. (I am reading Pia Mellody's Facing Love Addiction and think I am finding some of the answers there.)
I do feel like we both lost ourselves. I do feel like she felt rejected (some of it my fault, some of it her childhood stuff.)
I know I aggravated things by pleading, asking her to go to therapy...
I am staying dark and giving her and our M into God's hands. I do want her to be happy, no matter what that means.
Thank you, Brit. You are a sweetheart!
I do think that I have not done well at giving her space.
I definitely aggravated things along the way which further entrenched her desire to break away.
I know she needs to walk this path to see where it leads.
I know that it is my choice to stand or not.
I believe that NC is best for me and for any hope that I still have about us.
I am having a hard time believing what she said about the past. It really hits my insecurities to hear that she had to work at loving me.. I need to work on that. I need to believe that I am loveable and that her issues w/ loving me are her issues.
For now, I need to play, laugh and enjoy my life as much as I can while I heal. Thank you all for your support.
LOL Kaffe Diem! No worries, that was too funny. I did the same thing myself when Cadet had me check out a sitch. Thank you for stopping in.
But it is so hard for me to imagine that she spent the last 10 years working hard to love me. It never ever felt like that. It felt totally the opposite actually. (I am reading Pia Mellody's Facing Love Addiction and think I am finding some of the answers there.)
If it wasn't for my W's MLC (like) behaviours now... She was probably on her way to being a WAS... and then "crises" kicked in... who knows, maybe the trauma of the WAS stuff was part of the MLC trigger...
But, as was mentioned... it is how your W feels. And as much as YOU know... she probably felt she was working on it, when in reality she was doing "stuff" and hoping you'd return in kind... and you were, at the time, doing the same... there were expectations...
Now YOU know the difference... do... to do... without expectations... but she doesn't get it... and until life teaches her that lesson, well... it's up to you to BE that person...
make sense?
Do... and be a positive example... and a great person, to boot...
Love is a choice.
She does not realize that and thinks that it is a feeling.
Her feelings are upside down and inside out right now.
She has no way to make sense of her feelings because she has NO LOVE inside her right now.
She might fool herself into thinking that she has love for an OW but it is FALSE.
Her PAIN will not go away.
I can only say TRUST the PROCESS and let her GO.
If she belongs to you she will be back if not she was never YOURS to begin with.
Thank you Cadet.
Do I stay NC or do I send her a note thanking her for sharing her feelings and wishing her well?
Personally I would stay NC but it truly does not matter.
Nothing that you can DO right now is going to change anything.
You need to protect yourself (financially) and your own heart.
BTW I am hoping you got the message I sent you? I got yours.
Do whatever you want and have NO EXPECTATIONS.
I will also add in as far as her seeming so clear and resolute.
I believe that is just part of her script.
For right now.
See what she seems like down the road.
NG, if it makes you feel any better, I've heard the same kinds of things from P in the last few months.
Hang in there. ((()))
Thank you, SD. Her script changed dramatically in the email. Previously, I was at fault for everything and there was a great deal of anger. It seems like her new script is a place where MC could have been truly helpful but she is not open to that now.
I love Pia Mellody. Thank you. I am such a love addict and am starting to work on changing that.
The NC is for me so I can get through the withdrawal. I know I am in this place to grow.
How are you doing SD? ((( )))
Just as your feelings swing on the pendulum....
... so does hers.
It only until the feelings and emotions settle... that the truth will appear.
Until them - just ride the wave and try not to drown.
If the NC is for you - than nothing she does should change that.
Each day you will get stronger.
Believe that and you will be just fine.
((( )))
Ugh...
"It's only until the feelings and emotions settle... that the truth will appear."
Stupid.. old... computer.
"It's only until the feelings and emotions settle... that the truth will appear."
really great advice. I guess that's why they say don't believe what they say.
It's interesting that you say her script changed. It sounds like she's doing a lot of soul searching. Just let her sort and focus on you. And don't worry non stop that you'll see her at Pride, just enjoy yourself.
((((((HUGS)))))
"That secret from which one never quite recovers, that in even in the most perfect love, one person loves less profoundly than the other."
Thornton Wilder
"The Brideg of San Luis Rey"
NG you have an opportunity to find out what it means to love someone the way you say you do.
The vows. My post before.
Are those a promise for her?
Why are you here?
Why do you want her back in your life?
I am not trying to be a jerk...real questions.
For YOU.
How would you want to be loved? Did she show you that as she said she did?
What about now?
And your love?
Do I have the answer? Not yours. I found mine.
That is what you are here for because the other stuff you don't control (Your W and how she chooses to define and express love) and that's not the only reason why you shouldn't focus on it.
Defining how you choose to define and express it is the most important thing.
This is a life's journey if you choose to take the road.
I love that quote Val. Each time my W puts a new spin on the reasons why she is leaving or how she felt during the M, I allow myself to get pulled along...
Whether it is the "I'm confident we can work things out" of three months ago or this latest email.
For me, I need to let it all settle... and not take to heart what she says until it does.
Thank you, Val. ((( )))
Thank you, TG. As always, you have given me a lot to think about. Before you posted on my thread, I always read your posts to others bc they would push me to think differently.
Yes, this is an opportunity to truly love her and to follow through on my vows. I spent a lot of time thinking about that yesterday and what that means for now.
I think she still feels a great deal of guilt. I think that as long as she feels it she will not be able to figure out what she needs or wants for her life. I think that my NC is best for her as well as me. I do want her to be happy, whatever that means for her. (Wow, just writing that makes me sad.) I did not know that she felt like she denied her own needs and lost herself in our M, and I want better for her, for her to be able to value who she is and not lose it to anyone, for her to be able to stand up for her needs and not push them aside, for her to be able to explore and express her heart without fear. I feel as if she felt rejected by me (I discovered this after) due to my own shortcomings and the hurt she felt as child and my wish for her is that she is able to know herself, express her needs and accept love without the lens of her childhood distorting it.
Sometimes I question my motives in being here. I tell myself that it is to help me detach and become a stronger, better person but the real truth is the hope that I can learn something that will bring her back and/or make this not hurt so much. I need to make sure that my participation does not stop me from GALing and supports me in detaching, not obsessing. I want to grow, I have learned so much here about who I am and have been in my M, but I need to be careful. It is my nature to stay in my head instead of my heart and I need to make sure that I use this site wisely to open and heal my heart.
I will answer more of your questions later TG, I need to put more thought into them. Thank you for pushing me to think and feel. ((( )))
Yesterday was a really heavy day and this week is hard with her coming to town to file. I am incredibly sad and tired... all these steps towards the D take more and more out of me. I recharge in-between but it does not feel like enough. My W sat across from me 5 months ago when we started talking about the D and said, "I don't know how we got here." I still can't. I cycle between denial and depression and anger. sometimes a moment of acceptance comes for the latest step (I had just accepted her move last month and learning that she was seeing OW a few weeks ago) and then the next step comes too quickly for me and I am back in shock.
I so admire you all that are further along in the D process or have survived the D and developed new lives. I never realized how heroic you are until I joined you on this journey.
I find myself on hyper alert, cringing anytime a car stops close by, thinking that I am being served the D papers. (W told me she is in town this week to file.)
I am trying to reframe it in my mind by telling myself that it is only a piece of paper, that it is not over as there are another 6 months until it can be final, that I will be okay no matter what, that this is in God's hands. Any other suggestions on thoughts to help me get through this?
Thank you!
Go get drunk????? I'm trying to make you smile. NG it is just a piece of paper, and whether or not she actually does it is not in your hands. The worst thing you can do today is sit and wait. It's like sitting with your cell in your lap waiting for a text or a call....
Go out for lunch, go shopping, get your nails and toes done, do anything to pass the time except sit and wait. Its going to be a looooooooooooong day if you do that.
Hugs going out to you!
i took my first yoga class yesterday. it's so relaxing and calming. i feel more centered and hopeful and happy. all that after one class! you might try it?
You did make me laugh, AprilT. I needed that! I will be at work most of the day, so that will keep my mind off of it, although I do prefer your idea
SS, I love yoga but have not done it recently. I will get out my Wii and get to it. Great idea. Thank you!
I need to make sure that I use this site wisely to open and heal my heart.
I think we all deal with that. You recognizing it and actually saying it is proof that will actively safe guard against it.
You're a very strong person. D hasn't been brought up in our sitch and I'm telling myself I'll deal with that if it happens. But I'm with April, get out and about.
Your introspection and musings are helping me so I am happy that you are on this site. I can empathize with you saying that you want the best for her and cringing at the idea that it might not mean a M with you in the future. I think that is the ultimate detach to love selflessly.
Hey Brit,
Thanks for stopping by.
You are so very sweet and I am so glad to "cyberknow" you!
I actually felt better once I posted. I think writing it helped me take some of the power out of it.
I will be okay, no matter what. I know that. Reading posts from you and others really strikes that home for me. So much has happened which is such a blessing to me in the last few months. I am having growing pains, that is for sure, but seeing and feeling my growth makes me happy!
Have a great day Brit!
I did not know that she felt like she denied her own needs and lost herself in our M
You didn't know because you're not a mind reader.
This is not yours to own.
I think your goal to grow is a good one.
This is a process. At first it is all about what your beloved is doing or not doing.
There is not much growing when you do that. When you detach and step away. You see things with more clarity.
You won't do that until you're ready. Right now you are hurting and that is normal.
When you do the work that is required to grow and move forward from this tragedy,
You will set your goals higher than just getting your spouse back.
This site is a great place to help you do that.
When I asked you why you are here. That is for you, not me.
And your answer will change over time I promise you...
If you stick with it.
[/b]You will set your goals higher than just getting your spouse back.[b]
so, so true!
I so wish I had had a clue before the BD. I would have done anything to work through this. that is such a bitter pill to swallow.
I wish I had a pony. : )
If you think long and hard...and are really honest, I am willing to bet (and I could be wrong) that you did have clues. You just...didn't listen to them or know what they were.
Believe it or not, this is an opportunity.
I'm not trying to sell you a turd here, either.
You, will...should let me say should become a better partner with this lesson. Is it with your W? Maybe...maybe not...but it is for you.
10 days NC? That is awesome.
Hi J3B, Thank you for stopping by! I often read your posts for the wisdom (and your humor.)
Yes, hindsight is 20/20... My W had been more critical of me for a few months before the BD. I noticed it but also noticed that she was critical of everyone, our friends, people crossing the street too slowly, on and on...so I thought she was stressed about work bc she was working a lot of hours.. I was wrong.
I could had talked more, asked more, worked more on the emotional connection...
Btw, 14 days now.
Hi Grace....just wanted to check in and see how you are!Thank you do much for your words on my thread.
Jack I read a few of your posts and understand your WAW came back I'd love to gain insight from your side to increase my empathy.
Okay sorry to high jack!
Hi Brit, thank you for stopping by and checking in on me. i would love to hear more from Jack too to understand more about what a WAW goes through on the path back.
i have not been served the D papers yet and expect that it will be any day now. (For those new to my thread, my W was coming to town last week to file.)
I have been telling myself a few things which have helped me:
1. the timing is good. it is in my best interest to D now due to the financial aspects. If this had happened a few years ago, i would have been in trouble.
i have learned to protect myself financially in the future and will do it with W or whoever is in my life.
2. this process (she is in MLC, I believe) is going to take a LONG time. (I denied that for awhile) The OW is new and a new relationship feels fun and free and exciting. it will be some time before reality hits.
If my W has really found something deeper/richer than what we had, then there is deeper/richer out there for me too, especially with what I have learned here, from therapy and from reading.
3. I am growing and need time to continue. I am not ready for a change in our situation until I can get hold of my anxiety problem. It is bigger than our M, impacts me in all areas of my life and I have used our M to feel good enough to avoid dealing with it.
Now, I am not sure if all of the above is good DBIng and invite any and all to challenge me on it.
PS: I am so so proud. I am on day 17 no contact and never thought I would be able to do it.
That 180 is huge!!
I have been telling myself a few things which have helped me:
1. the timing is good. it is in my best interest to D now due to the financial aspects. If this had happened a few years ago, i would have been in trouble.
i have learned to protect myself financially in the future and will do it with W or whoever is in my life.
2. this process (she is in MLC, I believe) is going to take a LONG time. (I denied that for awhile) The OW is new and a new relationship feels fun and free and exciting. it will be some time before reality hits.
If my W has really found something deeper/richer than what we had, then there is deeper/richer out there for me too, especially with what I have learned here, from therapy and from reading.
3. I am growing and need time to continue. I am not ready for a change in our situation until I can get hold of my anxiety problem. It is bigger than our M, impacts me in all areas of my life and I have used our M to feel good enough to avoid dealing with it.
Now, I am not sure if all of the above is good DBIng and invite any and all to challenge me on it.
Wow this is amazing. Really fantastic stuff. I think I had that realization too about it taking time.
And I love the way you came to terms with either it will take awhile for us to work things out OR it means there's something else out there for me.
I think I needed to hear that. And I think accepting the time element brings a sense of patience.
Yeah, I'm learning about anxiety too. good luck working on it. And please stick around!
((((((hugs))))))
NG,
I want to apologize, my response based upon your last post from the first page of this thread...so...it became dated as soon as I posted...and truthfully? That was the closest I have been to tempted to using the edit button.
Challenge AND approval.
Your list is great, except for one.
And for me that is the D, there is no really good time for it, without the abusive parts...which I did not read, and time in.
Financially? Yes...divorce can be easier. Divorce can save you money...lots of things.
To me money is just money and stuff is just stuff. Protect your assests? Yes...but the ends and means come into play here as well; for me.
I'm not sure I have the words at the moment. Getting back into the swing of things.
Let me try.
IF you ascribe to soulmates...and I hate the word. Then you fight the D and there will never be a good time for it, even if it becomes inevitable.
If you married her and love her then again like above...
If there is a good time to D?
What is beckoning to you?
Not that a divorce is a wrong answer...if your married and there is no abuse? It should be the last answer, that's why your here.
As for my journey and my wife's? Since without her and her effort I wouldn't still be married, it's in the archive. I'll try and find it but it's not my prioriety.
My path is mine, and your's is yours. IF I could gaurentee what I did would work for you I'd be making money and giving most of it to Michele. ; ) OK I wouldn't charge. : )
Hi J3B,
Thank you for stopping by again.
I did not explain myself well. I want to be married to my W more than anything in the world. But I am trying to reconcile myself with the fact that she is moving forward w/ the D. (She came to town last week to file and I am waiting to be served.)
I have done everything I can and will continue doing everything to build a new relationship with her. I am trying to reconcile myself with the fact that the old M is gone and there must be a new relationship built, but again, I can only do my part, not hers.
I have been dreading being served and have been on hyper alert for car doors indicating the moment has arrived. I know that I have 6 months until it is final and I will continue to do my best to DB the heck out of this time.
But I will also continue to work on detaching and part of it for me, is seeing any positives in this, and to be honest, making smarter choices to financially protect myself in the future is one of them. I would not D to do it, but I will be thankful that D provides me with this opportunity.
J3B, I have fought this D so far and have not helped my W divorce me in any way. I will not help her in the next 6 months either. I think she needs the space to realize what she has lost and I need the space to grow and that is why I am NC now.
I want to grow and be challenged and appreciate when you voice a concern, J3B. I will be very grateful to hear your thoughts on what I am writing here.
i have not been served the D papers yet and expect that it will be any day now.
This may very well happen and you nor I have any control over it.
But be careful when YOU EXPECT something.
Jack is challenging you I see.
Day 18 NC.
Then I had no choice but to email her due to a decision on a shared property. I just asked the question and wrote thank you at the end. (I am still NC, right? I want to keep counting the days, it makes me feel powerful.)
So she writes back with the answer. She also states that we can offer another year or two lease to them. Last conversation, she wanted them to move out as she had been planning to move back to the property this September.
So she does not mention her plans (moving in w/ OW?, staying out of state?, moving to the North Pole? )....
and does not mention the D papers... she came to town to file last week. I have not been served yet.
why not be open about the change in plans?? and at least give me some warning about when i am being served. am i expecting too much?? (i think i know the answer just by using the word expecting)
i will not ask or try to find out in any way. it does not matter right now. (at least that is what i am telling myself.)
Glad the NC is going well for you.
You are breaking that by asking her a question that if not answered.. would be neglecting your responsibilities as a person.
NC is about eliminating all the hurtful conversation, all the cake-eating, and any unwanted & unnecessary conversation.
Keep it up.
There is DIM, Dark and NC.
Use as appropriately, yes you broke NC but you are still DARK. This is just a technicalty.
You do this for YOU not to punish her.
To protect YOU!
Sounds like you are still protected, no harm, no foul.
keep up the good work!
Thank you Val and Cadet.
I am having a tough time tonight with wondering about W and if she is moving in with OW. I am not detached, that is for sure. That is why DARKNESS is my friend... actually NC is a better friend but DARKNESS is what I am stuck with for now.
I have great admiration for you DBers who have to stay connected through having children together. Wow. One sentence of an email and I am reeling a bit. I could not imagine constant contact.
OK... I have my equilibrium back again and I did not contact my W. (Day 19 DARK)
I am refocused on me and resisted the temptation to try and figure out what W is doing.
Due to the example of honesty and courage shown by my dear DB friend, Brit, I want to "woman up" and be honest about something about myself in my M.
My W was incredibly loving to me during our M and showed her love quite openly and often. (That is why her recent email about how hard it was for her to love me was such a shock.)
Anyhow, in the midst of all this love, I accused her probably 4 -5 times over the course of our relationship of having feelings for someone else. Most of the accusations were really silly in hindsight and embarrassing to admit. (Really embarrassing - my best friend, her boss - crazy stuff) I would start to form suspicions based on how much she would talk about someone and then end up asking her if she had feelings for them. She would get really angry and feel that I did not trust her. I would try to explain that, it was my own insecurity, that I felt that I was not good enough/loveable.
After she would reassure me that she did not have feelings, I would believe her but the damage had been done.
This was one of the things she said that really bothered and angered her and she could not forget, when we broke up, and is something I feel guilty about, regret and need to work on.
I want to understand more about how this impacted our M but I can not ask her so I want to ask if anyone else has been in a similar situation and what they have learned from it.
Thank you.
Okay Grace you get the award for making me cry. I feel good right now but fragile.
Trust me you don't want to know her plans not right now not while you're not grounded. Otherwise you'll be like me yesterday standing in a field of horse sh&t (literally) crying and screaming.
I would say don't focus on how that impacted your M focus on why you did that. You already said that when you look back it was silly so maybe look deep into why you thought she would leave you and why you be and fixated with other people. And see if this is something you did in other relationships as well.
You are amazing with the NC.
i hope it was a good cry Brit.
i reached a point today where i wanted to apologize to my W for not loving her enough to care about her happiness and let go. i realized that much of my holding on (really it was grabbing/grasping on) was selfish, based on my fears and needs.
i spent some time crying but it was a good crying. i am more honestly aware of my faults, not as it was in the past, in a frantic effort to get her back, but in a true humility and desire to change.
and as part of that change, i will not contact her to apologize now. i know too well that i can not trust myself to do it without expectations.
her sister contacted me last week about getting together this week. i love her sis and want to see her, but i am concerned that it is to serve me (she may think it is better for her to do it, than someone else) and i am also concerned about how i will handle the contact emotionally. anyone have advice on if i should see her?
You could prepare yourself for either scenario.
I don't know. If you think you can't handle it don't do it. You have to make choices for you I think.
NG,
I know you're scared. There was a time when I did everything I could to stop the D train. That included avoiding things that were "opportunities" to have it happen.
I could not. The only thing that I accomplished I was slowing it down to a pace where I could think rationally and handle it.
If you cannot handle seeing your SIL, then by no means don't. But this is a big opportunity to act as if and to challenge your own growth.
Other than my close friends - When I see mutual friends of My w's and I - I speak kindly of my w. Sometimes I surprise myself considering at times she pisses me off beyond belief... lol
But that is part of me accepting the status quo and it doesn t come naturally at first.
You gotta work at it. Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if YOU think her choice is wrong or hurtful, it's her's to make. Focusing on your opinion of her choice... only makes it more hurtful for YOU.
And honestly - let's say you do meet your SIL and for some reason you fall apart...
..that's okay too.
When I'm fearful on if I'm strong enough or can handle this or that - my sister always challenges me. She always says..
"You'll never know where you are in your journey or what work is left to do until you get out there and test the waters".
Failure is an opportunity for growth if you chose it to be.
((( )))
it doesn't matter if YOU think her choice is wrong or hurtful, it's her's to make. Focusing on your opinion of her choice... only makes it more hurtful for YOU.
This is really powerful. I like this.
When I'm fearful on if I'm strong enough or can handle this or that - my sister always challenges me. She always says..
"You'll never know where you are in your journey or what work is left to do until you get out there and test the waters".
Failure is an opportunity for growth if you chose it to be.
Thank you again, Val. Your insight continues to inspire and amaze me. Thank you for challenging me.
I have a tendency to avoid and have difficulty discerning where it is healthy and where it is limiting. I was leaning towards meeting with her and your message helped me decide to do so. I do want to test myself w/ my SIL, and if I fail it is an opportunity as well.
Thank you, thank you, thank you Val! ((( )))
“Life is glorious, but life is also wretched. It is both. Appreciating the gloriousness inspires us, encourages us, cheers us up, gives us a bigger perspective, energizes us. We feel connected. But if that's all that's happening, we get arrogant and start to look down on others, and there is a sense of making ourselves a big deal and being really serious about it, wanting it to be like that forever. The gloriousness becomes tinged by craving and addiction. On the other hand, wretchedness--life's painful aspect--softens us up considerably. Knowing pain is a very important ingredient of being there for another person. When you are feeling a lot of grief, you can look right into somebody's eyes because you feel you haven't got anything to lose--you're just there. The wretchedness humbles us and softens us, but if we were only wretched, we would all just go down the tubes. We'd be so depressed, discouraged, and hopeless that we wouldn't have enough energy to eat an apple. Gloriousness and wretchedness need each other. One inspires us, the other softens us. They go together.”
― Pema Chödrön
Good morning DB friends,
I feel peaceful and grateful this morning.
I had a tough time sleeping last night and had some bad dreams, but I also had a moment of clarity.
For a second I thought what it would be like to lose my health...
Each moment that I worry about my M, I lose a moment where I could experience the beauty of what I do have.... my health, my friends, my family, the beauty of nature around me, the ability to exercise, the compassion of this board and my own growth. I know it sounds like common sense but I realized more deeply last night that at any moment I could lose any of these things... i realized that it in a moment my ability to bicycle along the beach could disappear and how sad i would be that i wasted time worrying about what i don't have right now (My M) instead of enjoying what I do.
This is a really beautiful post and very true. When all this started, I had a therapist list off everything going right in my life and tell me this was a only one aspect.
The pain, the sadness, the hurt, the regret it can engulf us. But losing ourselves in a relationship whether it's during the happy or the bad times prevents you from fully living your life.
Good luck with the lunch with SIL
Bravo, NG. Well said. Really thoughtful and inspiring.
Thank you Brit and Unbidden.
My SIL was not available last night and wants to get together next week. I feel good about it.
I am not as afraid of being served. Once I am, there are still 6 months before the D can be final. I feel more peaceful now with whatever comes.
It feels as if I were wounded and all my attention was sucked up in the wound, much like how our immune system responds immediately with swelling and antibodies to a physical wound.
My emotional wound is starting to heal so I am no longer totally focused on the wound, I can put my attention elsewhere....into other people, my own growth and into the beauty around me.
This weekend would have been my wonderful dog's 16th birthday. (He passed away last August.) Every Memorial Day, we would have a big pool party to celebrate his birthday and the start of summer. (He LOVED to swim and he LOVED parties.)
I am continuing the tradition this year in his honour this Sunday. I am sure I will have moments where I miss him and moments when I miss my W, but I am excited about the party. It is also my opportunity to thank all of my friends for their love and support as I have been focused on my own wound for so much of the past months.
I was thinking today that many of my friends do not understand why I am standing and think it is a sign of weakness, as if I can't get over W. I have stopped talking to them about it as they do not understand and I probably wouldn't either if I were in their shoes.
I think they were right at first, that it was connected with fear and weakness. Now, I believe the opposite, that I am standing (most moments, not all) from a place of strength. It would be easy to move on and find someone to distract me but it is not what I vowed or what I believe in and it doesn't get me to where I want to be...a healthier person ready for a healthier relationship with myself and others.
I laugh at myself and all my notes around my house (I use post-its to put positive quotes on mirror/microwave/fridge, etc. I do need to hide them before the party so my friends don't think I am crazy....) but they help..
My quote for today: "I do not at all understand the mystery of grace - only that it meets us where we are but does not leave us where it found us." Anne Lamott
Well, dang, NG. I've been moping, but you're just a contagious shot of PMA. Thanks and have a great party!
Oh I have just read your post from yesterday and I love your metaphor of the wound. I was thinking today and posted somewhere that I felt like my life was consumed by the sitch and now I'm finding other parts again. Your analogy was perfect!!
It's true it's physically tiring, you're fragile, scatter brained, etc.
I hope you had a wonderful party and enjoyed time with friends!
((((((( hugs )))))))
NG-
i am with brit. wound metaphor is great. gets me thinking. thank you.
I'm so glad I read this thread at this time. I look for certain people to "read" because I usually get what I need.
I'm down today, I can't believe the man I married...is the man I married. At least as he is now. Or as I'm seeing him now.
Thanks for the inspiration.
SD - Glad to return the favor. You have been a consistent source of PMA for me.
Bug - I was feeling the same thing today. I was bicycling and ran into some friends of ours (closer to W and the OW than they are to me.) It was nice to see them but it brought up a lot of feelings.
I couldn't help but think afterwards about how hard it still is to believe that this is who my W is right now. I started to focus on the hurtful things she had said to me about me and our M. Looking back I think I was embarrassed to see them even thought we did not talk about it. (They asked how I was, that was it.) and I was taking on the things my W had said about me and us as true. I realized that I still have to fight sometimes to not believe that I am unloveable. It is a process...
All in all, I had an amazing weekend. My party was so much fun and my niece remarked on how all of my/our (W and I) friends were here, that I had not lost any of them. (W and I used to throw a lot of parties.) I felt really supported and loved and I did not miss or think about W much at all.
A few glitches in the weekend.. I went out for dinner with a group of friends on Saturday night and I got a text from a couple who are close to both W and I. They asked to come over and hang out with me, and it seemed like an unusual request from them. I started getting scared that they were serving the D papers and had a hard time not thinking about it. I had a tough time turning my mind away from that thought. They ended up not coming over due to my dinner plans.
I know I could ask W how and when I am being served but I don't want to ask. I am not sure why I am giving that paper such power. i know that I don't want to be served by my friends.
I guess to be honest with myself I am still hoping that W will change her mind before filing... Is that an unhealthy hope to have? It is not detaching... How do you stand for your M without hoping?
Also, I did not talk much about W this weekend but the two times she came up, I was given strong views of their perception of my need to move on... Which I am doing in some ways, moving on with my life, but I still have hope... I am still honoring my vows and want to work things out.. I keep some of it quiet bc I know they would think that is not healthy for me.
I feel like I need some perspective to help me understand when I am being healthy and when I am not in how I think about my M.
Also, I did not talk much about W this weekend but the two times she came up, I was given strong views of their perception of my need to move on... Which I am doing in some ways, moving on with my life, but I still have hope... I am still honoring my vows and want to work things out.. I keep some of it quiet bc I know they would think that is not healthy for me.
I get this all the time. I don't know if it was because I was the one to make the decision or if it's because I did date first. But human nature seems to think oh she'll be fine if she met someone new. They're all convinced I'm a great catch and that I'll meet someone amazing. In my heart I know that I still have hope. But also in my heart I know that I'm just not ready to be in a R right now. So I find that's easier to say.
I think it makes people uncomfortable when you say I'm working on me right now. I know I made mistakes and I want to be a better person on the next go round. Because it might cause them to question their own choices. This happened to me yesterday I was saying things I'd learned from Codependent No More and the other person said wow, that sounds like me, but in my case it was because x, y, z. I wasn't trying to make them feel bad about their own sitch....
People think if you "move on" then you won't hurt anymore.
I guess to be honest with myself I am still hoping that W will change her mind before filing... Is that an unhealthy hope to have? It is not detaching... How do you stand for your M without hoping?
I don't know. I wish I did.
You are giving those papers too much weight. Maybe they'll come, maybe they won't. Focus on the idea of if you get them they'll just be another paper. This board has seen people reconcile AFTER D's were final.
I woke up today literally and figuratively.
I realized that the times I was upset or fearful this weekend I had slipped back into the VICTIM role without even realizing it.
I am giving my power to a piece of paper..
or the opinion of others..
or my W,
instead of realizing that I choose how to think and feel about what is happening in my life.
It is a slippery slope for me...but I am glad that I realized how slippery so hopefully I can catch myself before sliding...
I am feeling better. Thank you Brit, your words helped open my eyes.
I woke up today literally and figuratively.
I love this!! Good for you! Its empowering that feeling. Good for you!
I am giving my power to a piece of paper..
or the opinion of others..
or my W,
instead of realizing that I choose how to think and feel about what is happening in my life.
SEE I said you are making good progress.
NG I am copying your last post into my helpful words to remember/live by document. You have distilled down exactly what I have been thinking/feeling the last few days, except that you are light years ahead of me in acceptance. Kudos on your progress.
Thank you Cadet. You are an angel to me.
And Verab754.... I may understand some of the concepts but continue to have real difficulty executing them... Thank you though.
Does anyone else feel that they psyche themselves up to get through something big and succeed but then have a bit of an emotional fall after?
The party I threw on Sunday went amazingly well and I felt so very good about it. But then, on Monday, I felt down at times and thought, even though I can enjoy a party or a holiday, that I still miss my W.
I noticed the same thing with Christmas and other big events... after was harder than during.
Is this just the normal grieving process or more?
Does anyone else feel that they psyche themselves up to get through something big and succeed but then have a bit of an emotional fall after?
The party I threw on Sunday went amazingly well and I felt so very good about it. But then, on Monday, I felt down at times and thought, even though I can enjoy a party or a holiday, that I still miss my W.
I noticed the same thing with Christmas and other big events... after was harder than during.
Is this just the normal grieving process or more?
Yes and just like our spouses we cycle too.
As much as I can tell you NO EXPECTATIONS you will have them and react to them.
If your spouse died there would be more finality to it.
The thing is they are as good as dead now
but still walking around in the same body with an alien brain inside their heads.
So it become confusing because it is totally the OPPOSITE of our previous life.
It makes no sense.
TIME does make it better.
NG we all have difficulty with the concepts sometimes, that's why we're here
The important thing is that we keep trying.