So I stumbled on this website and decided to join. Here's my story.....
We hadn't been happy for a long time. I think at some point I resigned myself to this is how life would be. Then I decided I didn't want that. Our marriage was sex starved. He was always tired. If I was the aggressor I made it weird. I talked to him about counselling and seeing a doctor and he didn't want to do that. I began to see a therapist on my own. He said several hurtful things and basically said that we didn't really have problems that I was making a big deal out of nothing. Later he said that he would go to counselling "or anything else I wanted" I told him that I only wanted him to do that if that's what he really wanted to do. I think I was pretty much decided at that point. It was the hardest thing to do to say that it was over.
We lived together for about 4.5 months in separate rooms. At some point I pushed for him to move out. He was upset saying that I was trying to get rid of him. I told him I thought it was needed for us to move forward.
About a month before he moved out, he went on a date and began to see her. He started taking care of himself, playing sports, drinking with friends, making plans to move out etc. At first I was happy for him. Then it upset me and I didn't know why.
We did sleep together once. I don't know what I expected but he went out with her again and told me that he did really like her.
I kinda had an emotional breakdown. I had felt like he had become someone and was never going to change and now he was. Over the next few weeks before he moved out I told him I wanted to try again, he said that he needed to be independant (I actually agree) and that he couldn't do this on my schedule that our relationship had gone wrong because he'd done everything he could to make me happy and lost himself. (I agree with this) We had so many conversations about our relationship, places we went wrong, things we should have done differently. We both said things that I think it the past we would never have talked about rationally or admitted/apologised for we would have just been defensive.
He told me that he there may be a chance for us in the future but we needed to both calm down. I was an emotional wreck and started therapy again. He said that perhaps in the future we could go on dates etc.
After he moved out there were a few episodes where I was very angry "How can we ever have a future if you're dating someone else" him "You can't put a timeline on this or make me sit at home. I did that for months while you dated"
I have now come to see things from his side. If the minute I'd stopped being depressed and starting looking after myself and he wanted to come back I'd be a tiny bit resentful. (he hasn't said that) I am no longer bringing up the relationship ours or his new one. I've been doing that for about 3 weeks now.
He says that it would be a shame if we ended because we have a good story. I said that it would be a shame if we let it pass by because of "bad timing" He said that everything is timing. We've both said we'll always love each other. He said that part of him will always want to get in pants (a massive change from the non aggressive man I'd been married to for years) He said that he feels like if we got back together if he moved in tomorrow that it would be amazing for 3 months than back to the same thing. That I have a strong personality and he doesn't want to be that person. I said so you don't trust yourself to still be you? I said don't you think the way we've communicated the past few weeks we'd do that in the future and make sure we didn't do that again? I told him that I don't want to be that person again whether it's with him or in another relationship. I've been concentrating on just being his friend. And we are friendly. We text. He came over last night and we watched our favorite tv show together.
I've learned a lot about myself that didn't help the relationship: I didn't trust him...always wanting more ways to prove he cared. I was controlling or at least over the top planner. I always thought 3 steps ahead. I told him recently by the way I never thought you'd move in right away I thought we'd date and see what happens. He said but that's what you want in the end. I said I don't know what I want I'm not thinking 3 steps ahead anymore I'm seeing what happens. (which is usually how he lives his life and it drives me crazy)
A) from everything you guys have seen on this board is there hope?
B) from a man's perspective who has had a WAW what does it take for you to trust them again....(I asked my therapist I just want him to know that I'm not that person anymore that I have grown and I have recognised things that went wrong. She assured me that's what I was doing by giving him space, letting him be independant/responsible and not making any demands)
thank you in advance!
I didn't realise this was sooooo long.
Thank you to anyone who reads this and can comment!
i have a WAW wife. i want to trust her again more than anything. she would have to prove she is trustworthy tho. and i mean with her actions. she is leaving cuz she needs time away from me. that sux but could be good. in her time away she can show me whether she is changing or not. her behaviors will show it. then maybe i will trust her.
best of luck
Hi Brit, welcome to the db board.
While you identify yourself as a WAW, some of what you have written sounds like the dynamic is similar on both sides.
Of course, we are only hearing your side and there is no way to know if your H is testing (or even taunting) you or actually means what he is saying. We do have a saying around here, "believe none of what they say and only 50% of what they do" and I suspect this might apply to your sitch, for you. ie. It will be his actions, not his words, that are likely to show you his true intentions.
Did you agree to be in an open M when the two of you split? You say you were happy for him when he started dating. Why was he dating while the two of you are still M?
Please pick up the Divorce Remedy book written by Michelle Weiner-Davis (which is a follow up and kind of a second revision) of the original Divorce Busting book. It is possible that you may want to look at the Last Resort Technique and also follow the 37 rules that is passed around here which began as a "note to self" by a member named Sandi2.
Sandi2 was a WAW and I suspect she may come around to your thread soon. Whether she finds this thread or not, other members will be able and willing to support you through this.
Remember, you know what it was like to be the WAW... if your H may have become a WAH (which is possible and might have been triggered by his trauma of you detaching from him), then you have some insight into what he might be going through and also you are now getting some insight as to what the LBS goes through... use your experiences to remain empathetic with your H...
And we also say around here... stick around, post often, listen to what others post to you as it may help, do the work... fix the things that you feel you may have done that were your responsibility to the break down of the M and become an even better person in the ways you feel were your good attributes... by doing so, you become an even better person and one which hopefully... only a fool would leave...
Wishing you the best...
Thank you so much for your comments.
heartbroken I am trying to figure out what changes he would like to see in me and remember what faults he in found in my behaviour and how I can correct those.
Kaffe thank you so much for your insight. During one of my angry outbreaks I did say there's no way that you can mean what you say that you want us to work out when you're pursuing a quite serious relationship. His behaviour says that he enjoys spending time with me (when it suits him), that he's enjoying lots of time for his hobbies and special projects, and the attention of OW
We had agreed that we were definitely getting divorced and it was fine to see other people. Actually now that I think about it. I may have decided it was fine to see other people and never really had a discussion with him about it. He was never upset or expressed the smallest bit of jealousy or sadness about me dating. It wasn't until after he was seeing someone that he admitted to me that it tore him up inside that he cried all the time, but never let me see it.
I'm not sure what taunting/teasing is I will have to look into it. And I will get the book.
It is true that I remember how I felt in the beginning. Guilty that he wasn't moving on and was sad/depressed/hurting. Thrilled that other people still found me attractive/interesting/fun/worth their time. A bit Giddy at everything single life could now offer. Relieved that I was no longer responsible for his happiness.
I had decided that we had become two differnt people (something he's said lately) and that would never change. But then it did/has. Even small things like him making a doctor's appointment for a condition he never did anything about. For myself I have lost almost 40 pounds (I gained about 55 in the marriage) I made a list of things I want to do/try: hobbies, clubs, restaurants. I've become a pretty great cook. He was really impressed the last two times he came over and had new dishes that I never made when we were together.
One of my biggest fears is that he won't make a concious decision about our relationship. It will always be matter of timing and going with the flow. The fact that he's called his new relationship serious to me and she's the FIRST person he met makes me think he's not really making decisions just taking an easy route.
I remember being quite determined like I had blinders on. I was scared as hell and hurt and being determined that divorce was the right thing to do made things a bit easier. It wasn't until I'd gotten used to the idea of being single again and then saw his behaviour change that it shook me up.
I told him that I didn't think about us in the beginning I just stayed really busy. Took on extra projects at work, went to loads of events, spent time with friends. He said you're right. He said he's been keeping himself busy right now and it's true. Sometimes he send me pictures of things he's made lamps, clocks, etc which must have taken hours.
I have read the 37 rules and I am attempting to 180.
Hi brit
If the following comes out a little harsh I apologize, I usually post I sitch I can relate to, and this one has it in spades.
I guess where I'll start is that while you were a WAW you shattered your husbands view of "happily ever after". This is not necessarily bad, but it is a stab to the heart.
For him it's hard to trust you, for better or worse he let his guard down. This means he probably got lazy, and stop doing the things to keep you engaged, it also means that he had stability and security. Your leaving shattered all that for him. He probably felt he could lean on you, and probably nearly fell on his face once you removed yourself.
In my case it rocked my world. I learned a hard truth, in that you can never take someone for granted. It sent me into a self improvement binge, much like your husband. It also showed me that all relationships are replaceable. My W actions shattered a lot of pretty fantasies and showed me some hard truths. I imagine your H went through this.
Now I'll say again that I'm not mentioning this to be spiteful. I think there's a silver lining to all of this. You showed your husband that he was replaceable, as he is doing to you. In a way that innocence is forever gone, and hopefully in its place is the realization that relationships are hard work. You may never trust blindly again, but that's a good thing, because neither one of you will be blindsided again.
You must work hard to keep his love, and he must do the same for you. You can gain comfort and trust from knowing that you two care enough to keep working hard.
IMHO this could be a good opportunity to relearn how to appreciate each other. Rediscover those silly little dating things that gave you two butterflies, and look for ways to keep reigniting those feelings again and again.
You mentioned you were controlling, and he seems to lately be bucking back. Let him take charge, better yet reward him for it.
Guys already take enough crud from the world, make him feel loved, appreciated, approved and desired. Let him have control over his life.
I got lost in my marriage too, the things he is doing are good. He needs to take control of his life, if you find that sexy he needs to know!
greenblue that's not spiteful at all. That's EXACTLY what I wanted to hear from a man's perspective what he might be thinking or feeling.
At the moment there isn't an opportunity to cherish or rediscover what brought us together. He's seeing someone and says that we can't just set a date to decide to work on things. That he's living his life and once we're both happy if there's that spark then great we'll go from there. But as I said before he's said that he doesn't really trust himself not to get lost again.
It is true that while my greatest worry in leaving is that he would be alone and unhappy, the idea of someone else now having him as hers really really upset.
I have started telling him thank you and that I appreciate things even when they are small. Or things that before I would have just thought was his "duty" or "job" to do. He volunteered to cut the hedges and do some handy work around the house. I told him thank you I want you to know how much I appreciate that. I've tried to acknowledge anything I see him doing that shows he's been thoughtful. I even made a point to tell him how happy I am that he let me keep the dog.
greenblue any idea on how to win him back?
Hi brit
If the following comes out a little harsh I apologize, I usually post I sitch I can relate to, and this one has it in spades.
I guess where I'll start is that while you were a WAW you shattered your husbands view of "happily ever after". This is not necessarily bad, but it is a stab to the heart.
For him it's hard to trust you, for better or worse he let his guard down. This means he probably got lazy, and stop doing the things to keep you engaged, it also means that he had stability and security. Your leaving shattered all that for him. He probably felt he could lean on you, and probably nearly fell on his face once you removed yourself.
In my case it rocked my world. I learned a hard truth, in that you can never take someone for granted. It sent me into a self improvement binge, much like your husband. It also showed me that all relationships are replaceable. My W actions shattered a lot of pretty fantasies and showed me some hard truths. I imagine your H went through this.
Now I'll say again that I'm not mentioning this to be spiteful. I think there's a silver lining to all of this. You showed your husband that he was replaceable, as he is doing to you. In a way that innocence is forever gone, and hopefully in its place is the realization that relationships are hard work. You may never trust blindly again, but that's a good thing, because neither one of you will be blindsided again.
You must work hard to keep his love, and he must do the same for you. You can gain comfort and trust from knowing that you two care enough to keep working hard.
IMHO this could be a good opportunity to relearn how to appreciate each other. Rediscover those silly little dating things that gave you two butterflies, and look for ways to keep reigniting those feelings again and again.
You mentioned you were controlling, and he seems to lately be bucking back. Let him take charge, better yet reward him for it.
Guys already take enough crud from the world, make him feel loved, appreciated, approved and desired. Let him have control over his life.
I got lost in my marriage too, the things he is doing are good. He needs to take control of his life, if you find that sexy he needs to know!
awesome advice
I thought I would post my timeline of feelings for people who are looking to understand their WAS behaviour:
When I was the WAW I was in shock that it was actually ending that I'd said it out loud. The realisation that my marriage was over. And I felt really guilty that I'd ended it. That maybe I'd given up. So I just kept looking at any of his behaviour to reassure me I'd made the right decision. Anything he did wrong was like validation for my decision. This was for the first 5/6 weeks
Then I was angry about things that I'd never mentioned before. It felt really theraputic to say and you never did this and I always hated this. Just to be able to say things I'd put up with before.
This was between 3-6 weeks.
10 weeks in...Then I missed him, his company, his sense of humour. But when we got together old things that upset me were still there. (because he was hurting I think)
14 weeks in Then he detached, GAL, and we began to have better conversations about our relationship. That was also the time I had a change of heart coupled with insane emotional outburts which I think just put us back at square one.
I can now see it in reverse. IE my emotional outbursts only validated his feelings that we needed to just detach.
He told me that he thought I was much further down the road to him (in dealing with the breakup/separation) and I said I wasn't so sure, that I had buried my head in the sand in the beginning and didn't think about the relationship.
One thing I've already learned from this board and from relooking at how I felt when I ended it is that if they aren't ready to look at your relationship, think about reconciling, then NOTHING you do will change that. There will be a time I think that we all look back at our relationship with new eyes and go over it and think could things have been saved. I have to hope that I've grown enough (and not done anything crazy to screw up chances) that he'll think yes there's a possiblity we can work on this.
I had a rough night last night. Couldn't sleep woke up multiple times. I don't snoop on him. I did in the past (enough to know I'm MUCH prettier than OW but he told me that before I'd seen a picture of her) and it just made me a bit paranoid and crazy. However he had liked a status on a mutual friend's FB page that made me think possibly he and OW had gone to an event that day. Anyway, I woke up several times in the night, unable to sleep.
I'd had a glass of wine that went straight to my head and debated sending him all sorts of texts from angry to sexy.
This morning I almost sent him a picture of me in satin pj's he bought me years ago but I hadn't been able to fit in. I've lost almost 40 pounds. Just to say look at me...
The upside is I did NOTHING. I remembered the rules to live by or whatever they're called. No matter what you feel, how much you're hurting etc, don't let them see that. So I didn't text, I did nothing.
I am also trying to make concious effort to not make joint decisions without asking his opinion or give him the responsibility.
I'm not gonna lie I haven't heard from him since Wed night and I miss him. We were in much more contact the week before but I think I was the initiator. I think LRT/going dark or whatever is needed. But of course I do worry that then he'll just drift and never come back.
I have read and reread greenblue's advice. It's hard to know ways I can make him feel loved, approved, desired, and that I find his independence sexy without pursuing or chasing?
I don't know if I did the right thing or the wrong thing.
I intiated a text with a picture (wrong thing)
he told me how amazing I'm looking and asked how much I'd lost so far (good thing? he could have just ignored)
I said thank you told him almost 40 pounds. Made a joke about the pj pants I was wearing in the photo (that he'd bought me for xmas 6 years ago and I hadn't worn in ages) had asked about him and missed him. (mentioning missing equals bad thing?)
He said he was very happy for me although he was sure I didn't need to hear it from him. That I should be really proud of myself that 40 pounds was no small feat. Then he said to tell those pj pants another time he was on a train into the city. (good thing?)
I texted him another joke. I was sure at this point if he was going into the city he was going with OW possibly even for his sister's birthday. But that's ALL mind reading speculation.
I did tell him that of course I want to hear it from him that I like knowing what he thinks.
During this communication I was myself that he liked when we met: strong confident sassy. I *think* he responded positively. I know that the 180 says to detatch compeletly but his personality is very passive. I told him that if I knew he was so upset in Jan when I was dating then maybe things could have turned around then...I just thought he didn't care. I worry if I detatch TOTALLY he'll just think she's geting along fine she doesn't need/want me.
Patience though, I'm in this for the long haul.
I think I've joined this way too late. I think I reconsidered way too late. I think I've fooling myself into thinking there's hope.
he has moved on.
OW tagged him on FB (which meant I saw it) that they are together in the city. I guess seeing it was something different.
I should just leave it all alone. I'm making a fool out of myself waiting for him to find me interesting again.
I am so absolutely done.
I've "hid" him from my timeline so if anything like that happens again I won't see it.
I want to puke. I feel literally sick.
I had figured they were together but seeing it...I don't know. She doesn't post or comment on his FB so it had been real easy to ignore.
I've been posting on here for days and it takes forever for mine to be updated. I just don't think DB will work now. I think I left it too late.
I'm trying not to cry. It's hard
I had a very long talk with a good friend of mine. After seeing OW's car parked at the train station...meaning they took the train from my station and I had crazy thoughts ie what if I had run into them. So happy I had a headache this morning and took a later one than usual.
Without knowing anything about DB my friend told me I need to cut off contact. I needed to not know. That he was having the best of both worlds: contact from me, knowing I was there plus his freedom and new relationship.
I would love to hear anyone's thoughts.
I know that I am lacking in patience. I know that I am hurting. I am not doing anything a 20 something year old me would have done: left notes on her car, texted him abuse, etc. I said and did nothing.
My sister saw the post on FB and checked in with me to see if I was okay. She was proud of me for doing nothing. She agreed I needed to give it space especially if he was texting me while with her.
I thought up all kinds of things I wanted to text him. Notes I wanted to put on her car. At this point he'd commented along with one of his coworkers on the FB post. I feel like he's throwing it in my face. I feel like I was more respectful. I know that all of this is more from his LACK of thinking about me than his actual thinking about me.
Can anyone advise of this is all too late?
Right now there is no way to tell if you've waited too long. For the past year, I was just hanging on and trying to show that I'd changed, but didn't do the LRT. I'm now trying that, but it was a shock to see one of H's FB friends have a pic of the two of them as her profile pic. That's how I found out about OW just a week or so ago. I'm not sure if I tried too hard, or started detaching too late.
Just keep trying to GAL and follow the LRT. Right now he is trying to go out and see what fun and excitement he's been missing. Maybe it'll all blow over, but you have to keep busy or it will drive you crazy. I know, because I've been waking up at 3am for the past week, wondering where I've gone wrong.
Hey Brit,
I've been around this place for a few years (though just recently returned to work some post-D crap out for myself), and it might make you feel better to know that I personally have a few friends from this BB who have had successful reconciliations. That being said, you might want to check out the posts of a friend who used to post under the name of Nickel - 2005/2006 timeframe. She was a WAW who divorced and had a similar path as you. Once you read her stuff, let me know, and I'll fill in blanks on what happened long after she quit posting here. Hint, she and her XH are happily remarried with a 2 year old daughter now...
But there was a lot she had to do and think about until that happened a couple years down the road. And for those of you who might be quick to judge Brit, you really ought not to. Nickel's H told us and his family that without her kicking him out and divorcing him, he would have never seen the urgency to work through the issues that led up to her making that big decision. He had a long term R after his marriage, and no surprise that the issues that dogged their marriage carried over to the next R... Their marriage now is very different than their marriage pre-D, and she did a lot of soul searching and work to get to that point.
The part you're not going to like much is that she had to realize that no manipulating was going to get him back. He had to do it on his own terms... and when he was ready, she didn't play games and entered his life as his friend. The rest, as they say, is history. I still consider her one of the best friends I ever made... and we keep in touch.
It's never too late, sweets. But you have to let this work itself out on his schedule now.
Betsey
BTW, Nickel's name on this BB was "therabbithole"... first post July 2006...
Thank you so much for replying.
I've felt a bit like I'm threading water with no hope of reaching shore
The sleeping thing kills me. Your's is 3am? Mine is 2 and 5:30!
I agree with you Betsy. He told me that it wasn't until he started doing things for himself that he felt like life wasn't just happening around him. He agrees that he wasn't happy even though before he used to say he was. He is recognising where he lost himself in the relationship and he doesn't trust that it won't happen again.
My therapist did tell me to work on the friendship. Saying that it sounds like we still care for each a lot and that there is a friendship. She said worse case scenario you have a friend for life best case scenario you're better partners than you ever were before. I don't know if being a friend is the best idea or going dark.
For my sanity I think LRT I feel like I am doing all the giving then getting kicked in the face when I'm reminded he's choosing a new relationship over us.
Not manipulating not over thinking not attempting to control the situation is a massive 180 for me.
I will look at Nickel's story I am comforted by the fact that he isn't saying there's no chance just that it's timing and we have to both be happy then see if the spark is there.
I have started reading Nickel's threads and they are bang on exactly me!!!!!!
I feel the exact same way "I either want him all the way in or totally out of my life" feeling lost and unhappy before you left and now that it's over. Him wanting her to be happy and feeling guilty over his R!
Thank you for pointing me in this way I feel like I'll get valuable insight from advice given to her years ago.
Wow, thanks, to all who have shared their stories on this thread. I've learned so much by reading about the sitch and all the advice.
Good morning Brit..........Its been a long time since I have posted in here, altho I do follow a few situations. Your Title ( I'm a WAW who wants back ) grabbed my attention immediately.
I mentally checked out of my marriage about 6 months before I left my husband in 2007. We have a long history........of ups and downs.
Been together since our teens....We are now in our late 50's. I walked away ( was actually pushed away )but very glad just to get out....U know ... I needed some space, some time to think, anything just to clear my head. I also wished that he would find someone to make him happy because he certainly wasnt happy with me, nor I with Him. We had both lost respect for each other...which led to many many arguments. I finally said I had HAD enough!!
As a WAW all I wanted was space......time to be able to breath again, and he gave me that, he gave me time to miss him.
We didnt have OP involved.... ( altho we could have had ) This is the big difference in our situation.
To make a long story short as I'm short on time. The divorce was stopped, and we remain married ( happily ) It took alot of work on ME, with the help of this board and MWD's books. You can do this..if your marriage does not reach R, you will come out of it a better person.
Good Luck
Thank you NOTSOSUNNY I was nodding along to your description of wanting him to be happy. I used to cry and think maybe he'll find someone who will make him happy because that wasnt me.
I feel like I owe Betsey LOADS for pointing me towards Nikel's threads. There is so much that mirrors my sitch.
I woke up this morning feeling new again. Does that make sense? I just had some sort of turning point between posting and reading.
I have accepted and agree that anything I do in my life for his benefit is POINTLESS. LRT, 180, GAL none of that is for him it's for me.
I kept thinking and analysing (my downfall) if I go dark will it give me the outcome I want? if I work on the friendship will it give me the outcome I want? All of that is manipulation. I can't predict or influence an outcome at least I can't influence if I'm trying to influence.
Yes I am doing the 37 rules and not initating contact but not for any desired behavior from him. It's for me!!!! to get back on my own feet emotionally and to lessen the thoughts I have of him. But I'm not going to play silly games.
All I have been doing is being upset about a decision I made in the past or worrying that the future won't be something I can cope with but all that matters is RIGHT NOW. I have to get okay with RIGHT NOW before it all passes me by.
Right now I have a teenage son who needs/lovees/is a lot of fun me, a great job with exciting things happening over the next few months, a body that I haven't had in 7 years, and a marriage I ended so that we could both be happy because we weren't happy together.
(and I quit smoking yesterday!)
He said I was his best friend and we would always be friends. So here's my rules to be his friend:
Friends don't sabotage the others relationship
Friends don't flirt with each other.
Friends don't sleep with each other.
Friends want the best for that person.
They're happy for the other's acheivements.
Friends aren't jealous of one another.
Friends don't have an agenda.
Friends don't try to push thier wishes/hopes/dreams/opinions onto that the other
A Friend listens more than talks.
A friend tries to understand where you're coming from instead of telling you why you're wrong.
A friend never says I told you so.
I also wished that he would find someone to make him happy because he certainly wasnt happy with me, nor I with Him. We had both lost respect for each other...which led to many many arguments. I finally said I had HAD enough!!
Brit, I think the above in bold is a very common theme, regardless of whether it is spoken or not.
It is my opinion (and I don't think this is just some artefact of co-dependency) that both the WAS
and the LBS can hopefully come to the conclusion that we make ourselves happy.
This is a big part of what is promoted in DB. The GAL and knowing that we will be OK, regardless of the outcome...
When we watch someone go through a life transition... the process of "finding oneself and finding one's happiness"... how it is often that the pilgram might find
enlightenment "out there" on their journey... they find themselves by standing still... and they find their happiness by looking for and creating it within...
I hope your H finds that an OP will not make him happy. In the mean time... create your own...
BTW, congratulations on quitting smoking. I hope you find the persistence to stay a non-smoker. I'm still working getting to the first stage and actually stopping...
In the mean time, this
vvvvvvHe said I was his best friend and we would always be friends. So here's my rules to be his friend:
Friends don't sabotage the others relationship
Friends don't flirt with each other.
Friends don't sleep with each other.
Friends want the best for that person.
They're happy for the other's acheivements.
Friends aren't jealous of one another.
Friends don't have an agenda.
Friends don't try to push thier wishes/hopes/dreams/opinions onto that the other
A Friend listens more than talks.
A friend tries to understand where you're coming from instead of telling you why you're wrong.
A friend never says I told you so.
Is an AWESOME list to aspire to! Print that out and paste it on as many visible surfaces as you can!
I like that list, too.
Thanks for posting.
HAHA I will print out carry in my wallet, hang on the bathroom mirror, etc.
Today I went to the doctor and got antibiotics for a skin condition. Also go referred to a specialist and my dr mentioned that they should do some blood tests for a condition that a childhood friend of mine had. She died from complications from the condition when we were 19. I really, really, really, wanted to call H. Wanted to tell him what was happening. But I haven't. Because I thought about it and I don't have an "end goal" in that conversation. He'll say that [censored], you don't know anything yet, at least you're going to see a specialist, I'm sure it will be fine. I told my best friend who texted me to say she'd googled all morning researched the condition and we would deal with it if that's what it was. I love her and I'm thankful she's in my life.
Positive things:
I made a list of everything I would do if there was nothing stopping me from the crazy to basic. and I'm going to start chipping away at that list. Okay perhaps I'm not booking a trip to the Inca trail but I am starting a meditation class next week. Way out of my comfort zone. (I even looked into belly dancing...why not?) I'm looking into recovering second hand dining room chairs. I've quit smoking (24 hours in right now!)
I'm also signing up to do a lot of stuff. I've volunteered for some extra shifts at work events. I'm planning a company party. I even joined a social/singles meet up group and going to a board game night. I met the woman who runs the group and she kept telling me to come one night. It's not a "dating group" just for singles who might be new to the area or what to meet more people. So out of my comfort zone I go!
The past few weeks I've wanted to do NOTHING and now I'm planning stuff just to be busy and get out and about. Even silly things like restaurants I've wanted to take my son too and committing to making it to my exercise class once a week!
Brit,
Glad you found Nickel's threads helpful. I kinda thought you would. You don't owe me anything... she's a terrific person and I can't imagine her not being in my life. If she were still posting, she'd be glad she could help you.
I kept thinking and analysing (my downfall) if I go dark will it give me the outcome I want? if I work on the friendship will it give me the outcome I want? All of that is manipulation. I can't predict or influence an outcome at least I can't influence if I'm trying to influence.
This was what I was hoping you'd get. This is YOUR sitch, and you are unique here. Your list is right on, so keep that as your bible of sorts. Good luck!
Betsey
I'm a horrible sitch to read! I came here posted that I wouldn't call him and then I did. BAD BRIT!
positive: he offered to drive me to my specialist appointment. He said well depending on when it is...let me know...if I can I'd be happy to take you. (I know from reading a bit on 5 Lang of Love that his is acts of service. he once told me he almost cried opening a sandwich I'd made him for lunch. I thought that was so silly and that making a man's lunch was so 1950s housewife and we were above that. I should have listened and learned. For Future Ref I will.)
negative: I brought up upcoming night out with friends visiting from outside the country. Asked if he was still planning to come. (I'm cringing at the thought!) He said "yeah, should do, we'll see, but yeah I think so. When is it? yeah we'll see."
That whole exchange made me mentally think of a boxer dancing around in the corner trying not to get caged.
The truth is it doesn't matter if he's going. I'll be going to see my friends who I haven't seen in 4 years who have flown half way around the world. Whether or not he goes is up to him. It's a big group situation and me asking was adding more pressure to it.
Cheeseless tunnels I'm looking at you.
other positives: we laughed a lot. I did not bring up FB-gate from yesterday or the fact that OW's car had been parked on my road for their trip to the city yesterday.
The truth is our "friendship" is a heck of a lot better than it was a month ago when we had a crazy-town argument about him texting me using a pet name the same day he took OW for Easter lunch at his mothers.
He said he didn't want it to be weird and minus my flirting yesterday (which he didn't seem to think was awkward) everything has been friendly, upbeat, positive etc. (even if I have at times felt violently ill at the idea of him not coming back/spending time with her/enjoying all the wonders of life without me I have not let him see it!)
Now I'm putting the communication horse back in stable. And should it give me big brown sad eyes I will come here instead!
I have been reading therabbithole (Nickel's) thread and I got to this part:
"Do I call my XH to hang out because I really enjoy his company and all I really want is to be friends?" or "Do I call him to go out in an effort to try and confuse his relationship with the OW further pushing my way in his life?"
My honest anwer: to confuse and manipulate his relationship. Cause if I truly was interested in just a friendship, it wouldn't matter if he brought the OW along or not. So why would it bother me if she was there? Because he would be distracted and I wouldn't get my chance to "woo" him.
So I thought, why didn't I realize and accept this before...actually if you remember I had told him that I didn't think we should hang out and he was upset and told me that I was being selfish. So I thought, you know he's right, but that was just my way of saying it's his problem not mine. When in reality...it is my problem. I'm pushing choices on him that don't need to be placed. If I don't ask him to do anything anymore (instead of telling him I'm not to let him make me feel okay about it) and he asks me, then it truly is his choice. If I continue on the path of asking him to do things I will never know if he does choose me that he freely made that choice or if I manipulated his relationship. And because I can't handle the OW when him and I are together (at least not right now), it isn't fair of me or nice for that matter to ask him to choose. I'd rather know that he gave their relationship the chance it deserves and if it works out...then that's how it was supposed to go. I don't want to be clouding the waters, trying to control the situation only to have them fight about me. It will completely backfire and I'm glad I realized all of this now. I have to let it be what it is...and if they argue about how I'm interfering with their relationship, it's because HE brought me into it, not that I injected myself.
Hope that makes sense....so I'm on a mission...no initiation of contact with him...at least not until I can honestly say "Do you and OW want to go do something?"
And I started because I know in my deepest heart that this is what I want to do. I want to be in a place where I can say I'm supportive of whatever you choose. And I'm genuinely happy for you.
Brit...keep your chin up, it does sound like you are on a good path. Concentrate on YOU...and all will be okay. One thing I have learned through my sitch is that I cannot control anyone but myself...I also cannot be responsible for anyone elses feelings and/or happiness. Only we, individually, can be responsible for those things. I truly believe that my W needs to figure that out for herself...that she was relying on me to make her happy, for me to be perfect, when she never would try to figure out for herself what was truly making her miserable. I've come to realize that that was not very fair to me...almost setting me up to fail so that she could have someone (thing) to blame if her idea of a perfect life didn't work out as she planned.
We don't have the same sitch with OP...at least as far as I know...me, no...her, 99.99% sure. But that doesn't matter...this is her choice to D...she will have to live with that as it appears you undertsand...but I also hope that it brings her to a place where she discovers that she needs to be happy with herself, without me. This will only build her self confidence so that if we ever do R, then we will only be stronger because of it. If we don't R, then at least there are two more self confident, happier people out there.
TD: that was almost a mantra my IC kept saying to me "You're only responsible for yourself" and I say I know but, and she would say "You're only responsible for yourself"
I've done a lot of thinking lately about OW.
I don't really think she's an OW I think she's H's GF. He never cheated on me, he met her well after we separated and I even encouraged him to date. By calling her an OW, I'm putting myself in a victim role or in a position of being the rightful partner and she's the intruder.
I'm trying to live my life as becoming okay with what is...not how I want them to be or how I wish the past had happened or how I hope the future will be....just being okay with NOW.
He is in a relationship for better or worse, whether it's for 2 weeks, 2 years, or both thier lives, he has a GF. I am not in a battle to win him back (that's in my head) I rejected him. Then I made my intensions clear and he said not now.
So right now I can be friendly, I can be supportive, and I can enjoy his company if/when he chooses to give it to me.
negative: I texted him today re taking me to my dr appt.
Positive: before he had a chance to reply I reconsidered my MOTIVES and replied to say actually I can move things around and go on my own. Don't worry..it's easier for both of us this way.
Whether he had offered or not, I wasn't asking because I NEEDED a ride to the hospital I was asking because I wanted him to come, I wanted him by my side, and I wanted to feel like we were a partnership. He may have wanted to do all those things, I know his love language is acts of service, buuuuuut that might be confusing for me. And for me I think it's best I go on my own, not lean on him for emotional support.
I feel like this is massive massive massive personal growth for me. TO look at WHY I was going to do something, whether that's the best thing for me rather than "my goal of R", and make a grown up decision.
He did ask that I let him know what happens.
By calling her an OW, I'm putting myself in a victim role or in a position of being the rightful partner and she's the intruder.
I'm trying to live my life as becoming okay with what is...not how I want them to be or how I wish the past had happened or how I hope the future will be....just being okay with NOW.
He is in a relationship for better or worse, whether it's for 2 weeks, 2 years, or both thier lives, he has a GF. I am not in a battle to win him back (that's in my head) I rejected him. Then I made my intensions clear and he said not now.
So right now I can be friendly, I can be supportive, and I can enjoy his company if/when he chooses to give it to me.
negative: I texted him today re taking me to my dr appt.
Positive: before he had a chance to reply I reconsidered my MOTIVES and replied to say actually I can move things around and go on my own. Don't worry..it's easier for both of us this way.
Whether he had offered or not, I wasn't asking because I NEEDED a ride to the hospital I was asking because I wanted him to come, I wanted him by my side, and I wanted to feel like we were a partnership. He may have wanted to do all those things, I know his love language is acts of service, buuuuuut that might be confusing for me. And for me I think it's best I go on my own, not lean on him for emotional support.
I feel like this is massive massive massive personal growth for me. TO look at WHY I was going to do something, whether that's the best thing for me rather than "my goal of R", and make a grown up decision.
He did ask that I let him know what happens.
I agree wholeheartedly! Being aware of my motives and letting go of expectations is a constant battle for me.
Good luck, it seems you've hit a groove.
Just don't let the bumps throw you off.
Hi Brit. I see a lot of my own situation in your story (though my WAW's are a bit more extreme.
Nevertheless, she followed a similar pattern. Decided unilaterally (before she advised me) that we were done. Then went out to seek attention/date (somewhat secretly). When I found out, she told me she was doing it to be happy. She said she still loved me and also wanted me to be happy and that I should go out and find someone who would help me with that. She said it was clear to her that she wasn't that person.
In response, I, like your husband, have made positive changes... lost weight, found friends, took up hobbies, improved things for myself at work. These changes were not to impress her, but to occupy myself and take my mind off the anxiety and disappointment I'm feeling. After six months, I'm off the sleeping pills, focused on my future plans (which don't include my WAW) and being the best Dad I can be. I'm actually excited about finding and setting up my own home in a new place and the opportunities for new friendships and relationships that will exist there.
Through the process of detaching and GAL, I've learned that happiness comes from inside. You can never rely on anyone else to make you happy. You can share happiness with someone, but can't rely on them for it. Either you're content with yourself, or you're not. If you're not, your unmeetable emotional needs will wreak havoc on the lives of those around you.
As I said, I'm moving forward, making my own plans -- laying the groundwork for changing jobs and countries. Now my wife will have to make career and parenting choices based on MY choices. She exercised her free will. Now I exercise mine. It's not a punishment; it's what I need to do to enhance my life and happiness as a newly single person.
She seems to have thought she could have the best of both worlds... continue to rely on me selectively for her emotional needs, lean on me financially and as "co-parent" while she goes out and seeks my 'replacement'. I'm not having it. Things won't be on her terms. Full stop.
I suspect this is some of what your husband felt, too. He came to terms with your choices and moved on. Now you have to come to terms with his choice to do so, and the fact that he GAL. Sorry if that seems harsh, but there are consequences to every choice.
I'm convinced there's little chance of reconciliation between my WAW and I (not that she is expressing any interest in reconciliation). She says she wants 'amicable' separation... still wants me in her life when it's convenient, but also wants her idependence.
The thing she (and all WASs) need to understand is that, as the LBS, it's my choice whether to forgive/forget/be friendly. Betray us, lie to us, cheat on us, cut us off... we will go away... but realise that's what you asked for and be big enough to deal with it when it finally happens. You can't have it both ways.
I may or may not want my WAW in my life to some degree (beyond sharing parenting responsibilities). I haven't decided. I'll decide when I'm ready, and let her know then.
Some of the best advice I read for a LBS was in "Codependent No More": I'm paraphrasing here, but it was basically, detach (lovingly or not) but move on. Forgive or not, but move on. Cut the purveyor of your pain off; don't allow them to hurt you any more.
A few posts back, you asked for a man's opinion on what it would take to rebuild things. I've been thinking about relationships alot lately and here's an analogy that's come to me:
Building a relationship is like building a house. The foundation is trust... something you develop as you begin dating, get to know each other, start spending time together and intertwining your lives. On that foundation of trust, you begin to build a structure -- a network of shared friends and extended family, marriage, kids, shared responsibilities, interdependencies, an orchestrated way of doing things day-to-day based on each others' strengths and needs. Over time, the structure grows and it becomes MORE complicated to maintain.
It's like adding rooms to the house... it becomes more of a responsibility to take care of as it grows. But make no mistake, you need to take care of it or it will fall into disrepair.
So you'll need to do maintenance and make fixes along the way. Every so often, you need to do some major spring cleaning or a full-out renovation to keep the structure sound and make it a nice place to 'live in'. In relationship terms, that means making adjustments in the ways you interact, maybe seeking therapy when you hit a rough spot, etc.
When someone walks away, though, or cheats, it's like blowing up the foundation of the house. The rooms (i.e., the day-to-day routine and interdependencies, financial support, family relationships, etc.) fall down as a result. The relationship can't hold up on their own without that foundation of trust.
To reconcile, you need to rebuild the foundation... that means rebuilding trust. For me in my situation, that would mean my wife showing genuine remorse for the things she's done. ("Sorry I made you feel sad" doesn't cut it). She will have to be an open book with respect to her whereabouts, her online activity, her spending, etc.
After the foundation crumbles, to rebuild you need to go back to the beginning... start giving a reason to trust again through transparency and openness. You need to reaffirm for your spouse the things you appreciate about him/her. The material is all still there, you don't need to quarry it anew, you just have to begin to reassemble the rubble into a solid form. It takes hard work, and it takes time.
I wish you luck. And I only hope that one day my WAW will be willing to start rebuilding, like you seem to be willing to do with your H.
All the best.
I've done a lot of thinking lately about OW.
I don't really think she's an OW I think she's H's GF. He never cheated on me, he met her well after we separated and I even encouraged him to date. By calling her an OW, I'm putting myself in a victim role or in a position of being the rightful partner and she's the intruder.
That is awesome insight, Brit! It can go a long way to help you stay our of anger, resentment, and bitterness...
and work on being that friend in your list...
Brit,
I'm impressed... you really get this! I'm specifically referring to:
I don't really think she's an OW I think she's H's GF. He never cheated on me, he met her well after we separated and I even encouraged him to date. By calling her an OW, I'm putting myself in a victim role or in a position of being the rightful partner and she's the intruder.
And I'm doubly happy to read this:
I'm trying to live my life as becoming okay with what is...not how I want them to be or how I wish the past had happened or how I hope the future will be....just being okay with NOW.
I don't know if you've read Eckhart Tolle? He's kind of a woo-woo writer. But if you can really read and float above his very deep words, you can see what he's trying to say. And this is exactly his recipe for happiness. He says we all live too much in the past or the future, which prevents us from being happy... right here in the now.
I realize they are extremely simplistic words on a paper and very difficult to live. But even if we make some gains in that direction, we have a better chance of living that way.
He is in a relationship for better or worse, whether it's for 2 weeks, 2 years, or both thier lives, he has a GF. I am not in a battle to win him back (that's in my head) I rejected him. Then I made my intensions clear and he said not now.
So right now I can be friendly, I can be supportive, and I can enjoy his company if/when he chooses to give it to me.
I don't know what your outcome will be, but this is the most unselfish thing ever. And even if you don't wind up together, you should be able to look yourself in the mirror and be proud of this. Because this is what love is all about.
And the one thing I don't want you to forget is that there was a reason you traveled this path. Do more soul searching on that, because you were not happy and it brought pain to your R. Be honest about it.
What helped me really do this for my XH is to have my own mantra/assumption: that we all do the best job we can with what we know and have. If I assumed that he was trying to be the best person he could, it helped me see him as he is and how I am... a flawed human being with frailties and weaknesses who was just trying the best he could.
Again, that's hard to do, but it's an act of love to give others the benefit of the doubt. It also requires stepping up when they clearly are NOT doing the best they can. I tried to do this in as loving, humane way as possible... by asking him, "Since you seem awfully upset and taking out on me, is there something we need to talk about?" 100% of the time, it reframed our interactions. I still do that to this day. I don't assume he's pi$$ed off at me and out to get me. And the majority of the time, he returns the favor. It's important to me, because we have 2 daughters. One of them is developmentally disabled and I'm gonna have to parent her with him for the rest of our lives. I REALLY don't want to do that in an unhealthy fashion.
Anyway, you're a quick learner and I'm proud of you for getting to this point. It's only going to help you in the long run.
Betsey
Thank you all so much! I read your comments and started crying. It's so good to have someone say you're doing good and you're learning.
Underdog:
I think I've heard of Eckhart Tolle I follow Zen Moments on twitter and I think they have tweeted some of his quotes. I'm an woo-woo type person so that's okay with me! I will check it out!
I wasn't happy. I had my son when I was quite young and when I met my H, my son was becoming more independent. Between raising my son, going to college, and working, I never found hobbies other than nights out with friends. I recognise now that needed to find me away from being a mom, but I never did that not when you have a baby 2 months after graduating from high school!
I know that I looked to my H to be this life I wanted. And I didn't do things on my own because I always wanted him with me. So then I gave up, did things on my own and we just further and further apart.
He gave up a lot of himself thinking if he agreed with everything the M would work. I knew he wasn't always being honest. Either because he would say one thing and his actions would show he really wasn't okay with it or just because I kinda knew. So I second guessed everything he said, overanalyzed what he might want, and hounded him again and again if what he'd said yes to was what he really wanted or not.
We have recognised a lot of these things. And I'm continuing to look at ways I/we went wrong
I read something that said no one's trying to hurt you, you're both just doing the best you can. It felt good for me to think of think of things that way. And once he said I hate feeling like I'm hurting you I was able to say and mean it I know you're not trying to hurt that neither one of us wants to hurt each other we're both just doing the best we can. So I have been practicing your mantra. it's a good one!
Kaffe
You are so right. In the past I was angry that he was choosing someone he'd had a few dates with over us. I had told him I wanted to work on things shouldn't that trump anything and anyone. But it wasn't a choice between me and her. It was a choice for his path he'd begun after being left 4 months prior. I kept making it about him choosing someone over me in my head when I don't think that was ever the case. And the resentment and jealousy was all about having a focal point for the disspointment that I couldn't control the situation. Like a child I wanted to stomp my foot because I wanted us to work on our marriage and if we weren't it's all her fault.
bit silly when you say it out loud.
I am going to try my hardest to be that friend, which is why I changed my mind on that dr appt. A friend doesn't have ulterior motives or an agenda.
I have been reading and pondering all night.
The idea of, I think someone called it, a dance of uncertainty is massive for me.
I make lists, I plan, I look at things from every angle, I set things up and have all the information ahead of time. It makes me great at my job, not so great at M.
I've said before I can't influence or manipulate the situation. What I do want to do in developing my friendship is making sure he trusts that even though my Change of Heart hit him as he said out the blue it is permanent. But I don't want to pursue or pressure.
The problem with going dark and pursuing is that they are two sides of the coin. I need a different currency!
Instead of thinking a good friend texts, calls, etc and doesn't worry about who initiated, I need to remember that a good friend respects what the other needs. He needs space, he needs time, and my patience.
I have to just let it go, trust that he will come back to the friendship, and be there when he does.
EXHALE
A person does not have to worry that a good friend will forget about them.
A good friend may go away for a while, but they know where we are and will connect when they can and so desire.
A good friend is also OK with us calling up at any time to chat and just catch up. Or at least taking the call and making the time to catch up.
Brit
I havent replied in a while because I've been wrestling with the question of how can you win him back. Or rather had i found someone else how could W win me back. I've ran the scenario multiple times in my head, and can't come up with something good.
Then it dawned on me, W would have a hard time because I'd be a "hurt nice guy".
Let me tell you some of my story. I was desperate to keep W by my side. I was also fed the lie that of you absolutely do everything to please your W she'd stay by your side forever. I gave up 90% of my hobbies, went to great lengths to not make her jealous, and ALWAYS agreed with her. W had a way of passive agressively questioning everything I decided on, and once I did decide she'd get mad if I didn't agree, or get huffy and disappointed if I did. It really was damned if you do damned if you don't.
She thought she wanted a sweet, husband that would put her and her wishes above himself. The type of man that would ALWAYS be there.
The problem is that the type of man that can be this 24/7 is also insecure and weak. The type of man that is so desperate to keep his relationship that he will tolerate outrageous behavior and demands in order to keep her happy.
A wise woman once told me:
"I want a guy that can stand up to me, because I know he'll stand up for me"
I think you were expecting your husband to stand up to you, that's why you would constantly test him. When he failed again and again it made you lose attraction.
To make things worse you knew he loved you, and that he was loyal to you.
Did you ever feel like he was with you because he couldn't do better? Maybe you thought this at the subconcious level?
Could it be that your rediscovered love for your husband, is really you just wanting something you can no longer have?
Again not being spiteful just trying to put myself in your husbands shoes.
I realized that before gettin married I didn't have a hard time getting a girlfriend, I had a hard time keeping them. The problem was that while single I was strong, confident, self assured, once I got in a long term relationship I became needy, and weak. It was a cycle I kept repeating.
I mention this because your husband as you said is regaining his independence. (which you find very attractive). Unfortunately so does another woman.
So the question then is:
Can he maintain this new independence with another woman? Or
Sorry got cut off...
Or will he make the same mistakes again? Meanwhile GF has a blank slate.
So let's say he's still a "nice guy" then he probably resents you, because he gave you all and you threw it away. He probably hopes this new girl appreciates his "nice guy" persona. If this is the case odds are she'll eventually leave for the same reasons you did.
Or let's say that he has done some introspection and is seriously trying to be strong and independent, then chances are that he fears you'll break him like your broke him in before, or that you merely want him because you can't have him anymore.
You have to reassure him that you will respect, encourage and appreciate his independence.
Ok cut off again
The way I recommend would be to wait till you two can interact again in very friendly terms, cozy up to him and let him know hat you find his independence very sexy, and that you had no idea how attractive it is to see him take charge, maybe even tell him you regret not encouraging more. Then prove it with actions. If he stands up to you or someone else, then reward him by showing him you are attracted to that.
This way you can encourage him, and reassure him.
Ok finally done!
This has made me pretty sad and I'm going to need to think about my reply. You are very right on a lot of points, but I want to address one now.
Do I want what I can't have?
No. I can say this 100%. I have done a lot of soul searching on this during the early change of heart/panic attack days. The answer is no. I've looked long and hard about I ended it. There were more issues than the passiveness, such as my lack of trust, lack of vulnerability and communication on both our sides, his depression, I didn't listen, I didn't have hobbies, we didn't have dates. I could go on and on. There was quite a bit that left both of us feeling left out of the other's lives.
To decide that I want to save my marriage was not a fly by night decision. I knew that I have done huge damage to our lives and his heart. I was/am ashamed to tell some people in my life that I now feel this way because it does seem like "oh he finally got a gf and now she wants him back"
We actually discussed this and he said is said it seems like a cliche but maybe that's why it is people do start to think about things differently when the other is gone.
In our last R talk he said that he didn't trust himself not to turn back into the old person he was around me. That I have "too strong a personality" I know that feeling that you are worried someone will bring out a part of you you don't like. Which is why I feel like space, patience, friendship is all I can offer. Me talking about it, asking where he's at or wanting more answers just creates that same old dynamic
Maybe I did completely ruin our chances by ending it. But neither of us would have this growth if I hadn't had the courage to say it was over. He was never going to do that. He told me that a million times, I'll never leave you, things get bad I'll just hang out in the garage. That didn't reassure me it made me paranoid that I could be in a R with a man who didn't love me but stayed anyway.
He may resent me. He may be angry with me. He may think I'm being unfair. I can only continue to build a trust by not acting rash unreasonable or demanding. I am working on myself, staying single, and trying to put myself in his shoes.
If your W showed this type of change (not seeking male attention, not overly pursuing you, dedication to inner growth) how would your opinion change?
Brit
Please keep in mind my intent is not to be a jerk. I'm also not trivializing your decision to leave or return. I know it was VERY hard for my wife to make both decisions.
In my situation I made one thing very clear to my wife. I was not going to tolerate the relationship we had before. Since we have been living together all this time, I have practiced becoming more assertive and independent. Of course I had the benefit of being able to go at it slowly and steadily.
As for your last question, my W and myself have grown a lot in last year, and she is indeed moving in the direction of what you mention. I am happy very happy, yet I do have to admit that I do hold some resentment. I think it will pass, but some days it angers me to know how much pain we had to go through to get where we are. It is very hard to trust, because I gave her my all, once before. It just turned out to be not a flavor she wanted. Even though I'm happy I switched flavors, if that makes any sense, there is some resentment over her not accepting the original flavor. It's hard to trust, and give 100%. I imagine your H may feel like this. He's trying to protect himself. That's why he's asking for time. He may not even be too thrilled about the other woman, but it's an excuse to avoid facing the pain.
I do think you two have a chance, but it will take a very long time.
GREENBLUE I know you weren't trying to be a jerk. but sometimes truths delivered in the nicest way are still hard to hear.
I've had the strangest day today. I should tell you all I'm dealing with a health condition that's causing me to be emotional and fatigued. H and I were texting about it this morning when I sent him pictures of the rash. He said multiple times that he was in near tears seeing it, was there anything he could do, etc. He then joked that even though I had that rash on the plus side my abs look great.
He was referencing that pj picture I sent on Monday so I took that opportunity to say "I felt a bit out of line sending that picture ....I want you to be happy. For the record my change of heart wasn't a flash in the pan but let's not talk about all that. thank you for your offer it means a lot. I'd love to have you by my side at the appt but it's not fair to rely on you like that. Of course I'll keep you updated"
He told me again he was near tears. He had no idea it was so bad, was I just soldiering on etc.
Then he offered to go pick up a prescription for me and swing by with it tonight.
So we texted pretty much all morning.
After a mix up with the doc/pharmacy: they faxed the wrong thing, he spent money on pills I already had, they wouldn't refund him. I was sitting at work in tears.
He texted me and very firmly said feeling sorry for yourself isn't going to change anything. Don't worry about the money. I would literally spend my last pennies if it meant you weren't in pain. If you want this medication you better start making calls now.
Taking a page out of GREENBLUE's book I replied "yes sir. you're hot when you give me orders." no response But I did text him the outcome and apologized a million trillion times for all this craziness. I said that I never want to be a source of drama in his life. He replied oh well at least I'm all set if I get a skin infection.
So thoughts? how many of the 37 rules did I break? Or do the rules not apply to me since I'm a WAW?
positives: I never asked him for anything. I informed him of stuff and accepted his offer to help.
I shouldn't have apologised so much but I think part of me feels like I don't have a right to his help after all this happened.
I know that his LOL is acts of service so his offer to help was his way of showing how he cares.
GREENBLUE I agree that the GF may be an excuse to avoid facing the pain. He couldn't have healed in the two weeks between him GAL'ing and meeting GF. But I'm not looking for reassurance about that relationship or attempting to trivialize it. He said many things about her that made me think he wasn't crazy about her, but I can't beleive what I hear. I think he sess it slightly different. He's said that when he stopped being himself I stopped liking him. I *think* he sees himself as "switching flavours" during the relationship. And to be honest I did the same thing. When he met me I was independent, confident, loud, interesting, exciting, I gained a lot of weight after changing careers and when I became myself again he'd switched flavours. He's said that if we were to get together he doesn't want to spend time looking back he wants us to get to know the new people we've become and build a new love story. At the time that idea made me feel like he didn't value what we had, now after reading this I understand that's what needs to happen.
oh and sorry for the mega long posts!
Brit...I wish that my W was having your same feelings right now. of course, we're 2 months in and it took you 5 but man, I miss her. I'm wondering if this is how your H was feeling 2 months in? My biggest fear is that since I've been GAL that I will eventually do what your H did and find OW. I do NOT want anyone else other than my W and it makes me ill thinking about being with OW. But, I'm also not going to stop living if she continues to announce this being over, especially if she follows through with D.
As a man...although I'm a bit jaded right now, what you are doing would thrill me...but I would have that hesitation to trust. However...you still need to focus on yourself and stay "detached". You can keep it friendly without addressing R. Now if he brings it up some time in the future that he's thinking about the R and is considering R than I would think then it would be okay to react...but still keep it "friendly" at first to make sure he means it.
I'm a bit in the same boat...if W and I do R...how will I be able to trust her not to leave again when things get a little rough? I hope I get the chance to find out.
Obviously, I'm no expert and I'm here mainly to support you so my 2 cents may not be the correct advise...but you are a WAW and your insight is really helping me to try and figure out what's going on with mine. Hang in there...we will all get through this together...no matter what happens. Stay positive (I know...easier said than done) and continue to focus on yourself...it seems he's noticing at least and to me, it appears he likes it...he's just still confused.
Brit
LOL I can't believe you said that!!! I'd be floored if my W ever admitted that much that she liked me taking charge.
In our relationship she gets a little twinkle in her eye, and acts postively delightful when I show the right amount of assertiveness. It's like she can let her guard down, relax, and even be girly knowing that she has a strong man by her side.
You calling him hot, and playfully playing like that must have probably gotten his head spinning in a good way. That's good, tone it down for now, unless he shows that he wants to hear more. (you'll know because he'll take charge more.)
Call me simple, but I think us men if we like a woman and she rewards our actions with interest we'll keep doing them again and again.
I think guys want two things from our partners to be desired sexually, and to be appreciated for who we are. (or in this case for who we are becoming). I think if you can meet these needs for him, no woman in the world has a chance.
Sorry GB I should have warned you I'm a bit direct.
Well he came by tonight and was very very caring about my condition. Told me he'd done loads of research. He was supportive and really wonderful. I teased him a bit when he said don't worry a few weeks and you'll be beautiful again. He replied you've always been very beautiful I married you and I said you're still married to me and we both laughed!
While he was here GF texted him. He said hmph. And I said what? anyway he started to explain and then said sorry should I continue? He told me about their day out on Monday and I was very very calm and collected and fine with it all. I did not mention train station-gate! Another time in the future we'll laugh about it but not now. We talked before about me leaving behind the resentment now that I wasn't seeing her as an OW, it's really strange but if we were to R I don't see myself ever having to "get over" this R. When he was talking about it, it was as if he was talking about hanging out with one of his friends. I mean sure he does stuff with her he doesn't do with his friends, but the idea doesn't make me want to vomit. And I don't really think about it. In the same way I don't think of any of my other friend's bedroom activities.
The visit was good all in all.
I did wrong and brought up the change of heart. He said I don't know how to put this but as far as I'm concerned our romantic relationship has come to a close. I said I know...but I just thought I should reiterate that, well, I know if I were in your position and and the person who ended it and moved on quite quickly suddenly said we should get back together, I don't know that I would trust it or that I would believe that the change would last after a few days or a few months. He said I don't want to hurt you and I don't want to lead you on. (after he first moved out I was very upset and accused him of saying we'd possibly work on things and then doing something else) I told him I know, in the beginning I probably put you in a bad place and jumped ahead in my expectations. He said I just don't want you to be hurt. If something in the future changes that's great. But right now...I just desperately desperately want to be your friend. I said I agree...worst case scenario you're my best friend for life.
One thing I was worried is that since I had told him I had let go a month or so ago he might think I no longer had feelings for him.
positives: he complimented me a lot. He gave me a big hug at the end. When he took a phone call he told me it was his mother. I'm guessing he wanted to make sure I knew he wasn't taking a call from GF.
So I'm doing my own version of Going Dark: I'm going dark on R talk or any talk of the M.
Posting my friend list everywhere and taking care of myself.
Talked to my best friend tonight and she said so you didn't mention anything? nothing about seeing her car or anything. And I said no. She said I was so scared you were going to say something.
I told her I didn't even have the slightest urge to say something. it wasn't like it was stewing underneath and I was holding myself back. If I did say something catty, bitchy, jealous, angry whatever then it would make this whole "she has feelings for me" dilemma pretty easy for him. He would think she's being crazy if she's acting like this we'd never work.
I think looking back on my life if I wasn't sure of an outcome and it meant I would be in that "uncomfortable zone" I would do something to force the outcome even if it wasn't in my favour. I would rather have something settled even if it wasn't what I wanted than wait it out. Is that self destructive? Is that controlling? I don't know but I'm not doing that anymore.
Forgot to say that this evening he felt like this (my feelings) put him in a weird place. I understand that this would be easier for him if I were being a crazy b*tch or if I had moved on and he didn't have to consider options. But that's not being honest. During that conversation I never said so how do you feel about that or is that something you'd consider or do you ever see us getting back together. I simply said I want you to know how I feel. I know you don't want to hurt me. I understand if you feel like you can't trust my feelings because I don't know if I would and yes I want to be your best friend. I'm proud of that conversation.
In other news you'd think he's signed up for a boy scout badge first he volunteers to do all this medical running around for me and tonight he volunteered to drive 100 miles round trip to pick up a piece of furniture if I win it on ebay.
I can honestly say that I feel like a massive shift has happened. Even in my R conversation with him, it was totally different. Discussing his time with GF totally different. I feel so much more emotionally stable dealing with him. I'm not thinking that I want to act a certain way or say a certain thing because it might make him think of R or find me attractive or whatever. Just being me. Letting him be him. Accepting this new relationship we have.
Discussing his time with GF totally different. I feel so much more emotionally stable dealing with him. I'm not thinking that I want to act a certain way or say a certain thing because it might make him think of R or find me attractive or whatever. Just being me. Letting him be him. Accepting this new relationship we have.
That's most of the DB battle right there, brit! Keep up the good work!
thank you verab754! I ordered DR and still haven't read it so happy to know I'm already a step ahead!
I saw RoughSeas post in my thread and it made me want to comment about something.
She seems to have thought she could have the best of both worlds... continue to rely on me selectively for her emotional needs, lean on me financially and as "co-parent" while she goes out and seeks my 'replacement'.
Some people have said that my thread is unique because some H's who were LBS's will want to get inside my head as a WAW. I just wanted to say that I never thought I could have "the best of both worlds" It seems like a lot of the anger that LBS's have at the fact their relationship ends doesn't include in them looking at it from the other's prespective. And although WAW don't look at it really from your's either the difference is they aren't looking at you at all. They are focusing so hard on NOT looking at you or the relationship, drawing a line on it, shutting a door, moving forward because if they stop for a second to look the guilt and sadness might make them change their mind. And it was really tough to get to the point to say those words.
So yes we GAL super quick and then possibly look at things a little bit later.
However I don't think (I can't speak for everyone) that anyone maliciously thinks I'm going to have the time of my life and use him to do it!!
And although WAW don't look at it really from your's either the difference is they aren't looking at you at all. They are focusing so hard on NOT looking at you or the relationship, drawing a line on it, shutting a door, moving forward because if they stop for a second to look the guilt and sadness might make them change their mind.
Wow Brit...thank you so much...this is exactly where my W is, I jut know it. I know she cares for me still but is so afraid to let that guard down and care again...because in her head she just knows that it will lead to despair. I can only hope that she can understand that things really aren't tha bad...we don't have the biggies...infidelity, abuse, addiction, etc...we just aren't great on the small things.
I draw inspiration from your posts...I undertsand better. You go girl...I can tell you are on the right path, don't get discouraged. Again, stay on this path and the worst that could happen is that you and your H are best friends for life.
Brit
I think the key difference is that you want him back. I think his attempts to stay in your life, and his down playing of his GF are a big deal. I'm surprised GF hasn't thrown a fit yet. His actions are definitely encouraging. A general guideline I advice is to return 85% to 90% of the love and affection he gives you. This serves to give him encouragement, but also to let him realize that something is missing, and he better snap out of it.
If anything the one cake eating is him. I do think you are right in keeping the drama low, and agree that any rash behavior will just push him away.
That being said I think he is more conflicted than anything. His actions show it IMHO. Give it time, stay friendly, and fun.
Aye Aye Captain GB! Friendly, fun, giving it time.
As far as GF throwing a fit, I have no way of knowing any conversations they have. I have no way of knowing how much he tells her about our communication or involvement. I do know that when she texted him last night he looked at it but didn't reply. This is a big change from even a few weeks ago where he would text her back .02 seconds.
He says the "romantic" relationship is over but I will say that hug when he left wasn't how I'd hug a co-worker. I'm sure he is conflicted. Having GF allows him to not have to think about the conflict. He's a one woman man. Always has been so in his mind he rationalises that he can't consider me as an option because he's involved with someone and it's bad timing.
I am happy with working on the friendship and being a good friend. I want what's best for him and I want to know him for the rest of my life because I like who he is. We always used to joke that even if we split up we'd end up retired in a beach house on the Gulf Coast. And even after we split we laughed about that...we'd still retire together. It hasn't been mentioned since GF but I'm hopeful.
"They are focusing so hard on NOT looking at you or the relationship, drawing a line on it, shutting a door, moving forward because if they stop for a second to look the guilt and sadness might make them change their mind. And it was really tough to get to the point to say those words.
So yes we GAL super quick and then possibly look at things a little bit later. "
Hi Brit,
Thank you so much for being open about your WAW experience. I feel like this describes my W quite well. It is so helpful to hear your perspective.
I love your positive attitude and the way you are able to respond and not react to your H. ((( )))
((( )))
almost burst into tears (shut up I'm sick and emotional) at a text from H today.
I'd told you all that I'd initiated 90% of our communication in the past two weeks. After he left yesterday I texted him to say that the cream was working wonders.
Today I was working on space and patience! He texted me a very long text with a link to wiki about one of "our" jokes after it came up in convo. He even used my name mid text.
I never said posted about this before but ages ago pre 180 he accidentally sent me a text meant for GF. Then he tried to play it off that it was meant for me. We had a massive argument in which I said do you know how long it's been since I'd gotten a text from you that was that long, that well written, that thoughtful or witty and he said I could say the same for you.
THIS was exactly the sort of text that I'm talking about. Something happened, he thought of me, he took the time to explain it all to me, find a web address and link it in the text, and make a joke about it to me.
Now this has happened once before. I asked him to email me the acct details for bill paying and when we emailed me he put in this massive paragraph about watching a film that he thought was shoot em up was actually a love story and he found himself crying. My reply was long and detailed and interesting and funny and I got no response. I'm learning. 80% like GB says! He's taking a step I'm not going to sign him up for a marathon!
anyway today is all positives!
What a great positive text, brit! Just remember not to scare off the squirrel
Good way to think about not signing him up for a marathon when he shows baby steps. Can you imagine how long it would take a squirrel to finish a marathon??
i get that from my H, too. it's like they can put us back in their pocket again after they get a long reply from us..."ok, she's still mine, i can go on with my life and get back to her later."
Hey Brit,
In other news you'd think he's signed up for a boy scout badge first he volunteers to do all this medical running around for me and tonight he volunteered to drive 100 miles round trip to pick up a piece of furniture if I win it on ebay.
Sounds like his love language is acts of service... but on the receiving end of it, is he a words of affirmation person? In other words, does he totally eat it up if you gush over this and thank him?
I personally think if you can stick to your guns about being slow and steady to win the race that you might have a really great chance of having another go at it. You really do remind me a lot of Nickel, but you got this sooner than she did. It took her a little while to leave him to his own devices and get a complete life of her own without him. Once she did that, boy.... was he attracted to her. It was like watching a bee chase the honey. And all the while, she was supporting him when they talked. Their talks gradually got deeper and deeper... and his GF really, REALLY didn't like it. He eventually saw that GF was becoming really high maintenance and somewhat paranoid (um, justifiably).
Anyway, you're doing a good job sticking to the program. Keep it up.
I can honestly say that I feel like a massive shift has happened. Even in my R conversation with him, it was totally different. Discussing his time with GF totally different. I feel so much more emotionally stable dealing with him. I'm not thinking that I want to act a certain way or say a certain thing because it might make him think of R or find me attractive or whatever. Just being me. Letting him be him. Accepting this new relationship we have.
I also just want to say not to underestimate the power of this. It's incredible... and attractive in a person, friend and potential love interest. It's behavior that says, "Your feelings are important to me." Sexy...
Betsey
thank you verab754! I ordered DR and still haven't read it so happy to know I'm already a step ahead!
I saw RoughSeas post in my thread and it made me want to comment about something.
She seems to have thought she could have the best of both worlds... continue to rely on me selectively for her emotional needs, lean on me financially and as "co-parent" while she goes out and seeks my 'replacement'.
Some people have said that my thread is unique because some H's who were LBS's will want to get inside my head as a WAW. I just wanted to say that I never thought I could have "the best of both worlds" It seems like a lot of the anger that LBS's have at the fact their relationship ends doesn't include in them looking at it from the other's prespective. And although WAW don't look at it really from your's either the difference is they aren't looking at you at all. They are focusing so hard on NOT looking at you or the relationship, drawing a line on it, shutting a door, moving forward because if they stop for a second to look the guilt and sadness might make them change their mind. And it was really tough to get to the point to say those words.
So yes we GAL super quick and then possibly look at things a little bit later.
However I don't think (I can't speak for everyone) that anyone maliciously thinks I'm going to have the time of my life and use him to do it!!
I wasn't referring to your situation specifically, or that of WASs generally, but my own particular story. My reality is that my WAW spent a lot of money on psychic counselling (i.e., chat lines) asking about how she could arrange her finances, her own work permit, etc. while having 'flings' in a way I wouldn't find out about, so when the time came she could just jump to her new life instantly. She was going to spring everything on me at once (and planned to take my son with her).
She was conspiring to consciously take advantage of me and my hope that things could be turned around between us. (I was in personal counselling at this point and speaking with a DB coach to see what I could do to make our marriage work better. She knew this and was stringing me along while she plotted her exit).
I know it's adolescent fantasy on her part... part of an illness. Still hurts, though. Finding out undermined the trust even more.
Hi Betsy!
I have been reading Nickel's thread like a book I can't put down, like a daily devotional!
Boy do I think her H and my H may be brothers! He is exactly the type that can't be alone. Whereas I had always dated around he's had a series of very long relationships before meeting me. (of course that only adds to my paranoia that he'll stay with this girl for ages)
Anyway there's been times when I've gasped out loud at things she's posted or advice that's been given to her! I honestly believe having her journey well documented here has sped up my learning curve.
On the receiving end I think he too likes acts of service being done for him and physical touch. He told me he almost cried once eating his lunch because I'd made him a sandwich with love. I thought that was weird instead of making him more. I did gush overboard yesterday about the medication thing because I've been so poorly and it was so nice to have someone step in and take care of me. I go back and forth between wanting to tell him how appreciative I am and not wanting to spook the rabbit.
If I win the auction and he makes the trip I plan on making him a packed lunch with stuff that only I know how to make!
Can't tell you how much your words of encouragement mean! Thank you!
Brit,
Can't tell you how much your words of encouragement mean! Thank you!
Aw... shucks... I'm so glad! It's not often around here that I can praise people for getting this. So thanks for being the person who gets the affirmation! It's a hard road, and if everyone caught on like you, I wonder what the success rate would be? We're human, and we get caught up in the trap of playing the victim, and it's a very harmful trap in the long run. Soooooo, good job!
I'm still laughing at the daily devotional thing. She'd laugh too. I haven't talked to her in awhile so that I could tell her that she has helped someone else. But I will, and I know she'll be happy about it.
I go back and forth between wanting to tell him how appreciative I am and not wanting to spook the rabbit.
Glad you know this is a fine tightrope you walk. Trust your gut and don't press your agenda and you'll be fine.
Take care--
Betsey
p.s. I'll gush over you too if you make me a sandwich!
Hi Brit45,
I am sure most men on this board would agree with the statement that I wish you were my wife... ;-)
There are some differences but also some similarities in our sitch's. The reasons that my wife walked away were different, but the paths we have went down are the same. She is now slowly showing signs of turning the ship around I think. At the same time I have another woman has taken interest to me that I chose not to avoid, so If my W does turn back I am going to be in the same boat as your husband.
For what it's worth after reading your sitch, I think there is good hope for your H to open back up. It could be a tit for tat thing going on. As much as I enjoy this other woman's company, although I will tread EXTREMELY lightly if it happens, if and when my wife shows interest I will see what she has to say. From what I read I have a feeling your husband will do the same.
What Greenblue90 said really rings true with me in that we all should learn through this that relationships are easily replaceable. I didn't think that was true but I know it is now. It is a matter of coming to the conclusion if a relationship period, and if so which one, will make us the happiest in life.
I would like to ask you a personal favor, I would really appreciate your viewpoint/feedback as a WAW on my sitch if you have a moment to look at my current thread. It isn't that long as I summarized our history in a one pager in my latest post.
Thanks for being here, your perspective is invaluable to the guys on here I know, it especially is to me. It also gives me hope that despite the nonsense of this all there is always hope.
Keep your chin up and good luck!!!
Hey Bets! I feel like I know you (and your kids) after reading that thread. Ps me and my son are big Napoleon fans! Me and H almost naked the dog Lafawnda!
It really is a daily devotional. Sometimes I read on my phone and I took a screen shot if something she said. I'm paraphrasing but it was that the decided this was the role she was meant to play in H's life. And he in hers. The past 9 years weren't a mistake or a failure. They needed to know each other and D in order to keep going. So no more guilt or blame.
I've reread that several times
In our culture divorce is seen as failure. They even say in papers "after 3 failed marriages" well no one calls Sex and the City a crap show because it's over. The people involved decided they needed to do other things to continue to grow in their careers. I don't know where I was going with this just defence of my R even though at the moment there isn't one. Haha
Broken I have read and commented. I hope it isn't too much tough love. I took GB's comment about replaceable meaning that you won't take them for granted and you learn you need to work on things.
I really like that perspective, Brit, the part about the M not being a failure or a mistake. It is true, everything we go through makes us who we are today. Thank you for sharing that. ((( )))
Hi NG! How are you?!? I need to go lurk on your thread in a minute. H once told me after we split pre GF that I had made him a better person and he will always be grateful that we were together because he is infinitely more interesting and more involved politically and socially than he was before he met me. He said he would always have me to thank for that. So I made my own list post GF of all the things I loved about him and all the things I was thankful for about the relationship.
Side note: what was strange is so many of the things I loved where things that drove a wedge between us. IE He is always there for his friends...I complained about him doing things for others rather than hanging out with me.
My IC once said to think about two people in a R as two trains and sometimes the tracks run parallel and then break off to continue in different directions. Not everything is meant to be forever but that doesn't meant that it's less meaningful.
Random thoughts:
I read something that said if you're worried about something it means it hasn't happened. If it happens you'll deal with it then, but if you're worried that means it isn't happening right now. Just be happy about what's happening right now.
So when I start to worry that he'll stay with this girl forever, marry her, have babies I remember if I'm worried that means it hasn't happened.
We talk a lot about pursuing/chasing on the board. I read some advice that explained it really clearly. If you think about when you go into a shop and an assistant comes up to you and won't leave you alone and keeps trying to talk up a model of television or something..how do you feel? No one wants to be SOLD they want to feel like they CHOSE and bought. Now if that sales person comes up to you and says "wow you picked one of the best models, you must have noticed the great picture..not many people pick up on that" It changes the whole dynamic. It sounds like manipulation but really it's not. It's the opposite. Because they're choosing. You can hope they choose you, but can't push. Support their choices, don't push. That's what I'm trying to do.
My horoscope said my mantra today was Be consistent in thought and action. My thought and action is Patience and Space.
whoops I was typing on my phone last night I obviously meant NAMED my dog not NAKED my dog. haha
We talk a lot about pursuing/chasing on the board.
Here is another link about pursuit and distance that should help.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=714209I have read the book in the post and can try to answer some ??? if you have them.
Thank you Cadet! I have moments where I really wish I could tell H everything that I've learned or share with him what I was feeling when I left (because I think that might help some of the anger/pain/resentment that he hasn't even admitted to having)but I know it's not the right time
Part of my biggest worry is that if I don't ever pursue he will just drift. It's part of his personality. His mom even said he's so laid back he's horizontal. I forced the split and then later he said yes it was a good thing. But he was happy to drift in that unhappiness. I worry that now he has a GF he will just drift into a serious relationship (which according to him they are in), drift into living together even marriage. I know that's me thinking 8 or 10 steps ahead. I have verbalized this to him in the past and he just says it's all about timing. I worry that without any sort of pursuit on my part if/when he does have those feelings he won't act on them. I know paranoia.
I have lots of theories about his R with GF but I feel like it's pointless to even spend time considering them. Whatever the nature of their R it doesn't change the right here right now that we are not together and in his words from Thursday "if something changes in the future then great"
I have moments where I really wish I could tell H everything that I've learned or share with him what I was feeling when I left
DO NOT share any of this information with him, it is your secret weapon.
I have gone down that route and it only has hurt me not helped.
As far as pursuing and distancing, I could say two things. The Solo Partner book describes many different relationship traits and who is the pursuerer and distancer in each trait.
In general men are sexual pursurers and emotional distancers. Women are the opposite.
DB/DR says DO WHAT WORKS!
180 what does not.
So I would suggest you read DR first.
You seem to have agood handle on what is happening but it is way too soon to EXPECT anything to change.
And one of my mantra's is to have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Hi Brit,
So glad Cadet has stopped by. He has so much wisdom.
At first, I would take the positive conversations w/ W as a sign that things were changing... and sometimes they would and W would want to try to R... but the timing was not right, her change came more from guilt and things I said which made her think versus her really feeling the desire to R from within her. Hence, it never lasted.
She needs this journey to find herself. It may or may not lead back to me, that I realize. I felt like you did about your H. that she will just drift, that is her nature. But I have learned that I have to let her drift and not keep trying to change the tide to bring her to me. I hate it though, it is not my nature to drift, I am a doer and I feel so frustrated by this lack of control... I read/plan/love to think/stretch/solve.. Waiting...not doing anything...UGH
But I am learning.
And you are doing wonderfully to be so new to this and so patient and insightful!!
((( )))
Grace (I can't call you NG anymore we both know why) Enjoy your SoCal sunshine. Have a wonder GAL day enjoying yourself. Big Hugs as always! I really like your analogy about trying not to change the tide. You're so right. All you have to do is still be that happy stable person on the shore. Sister I am right there with you about planning and solving. I'm putting that energy into other projects. I'm undertaking revamping my garden and doing some diy'ing. So all my planning and researching can be on projects not people!
Cadet thank you so much for pointing me towards that book. I did a search and found some exerts online and this really jumped out to me:
Consequently you initiate conversations, ask questions as well as seek and offer advice. Stop. You are not his maid, physician, counselor or savior and right now I am sorry to tell you, but you are not his best friend--at least not regarding active friendship. You enable your MLCer to avoid facing his fears and feelings when you provide these services
I don't think he's an MLCer but this is the best argument I've seen so far to not bring up any convos about reconcile or the marriage.
so thank you!
I don't think he's an MLCer but this is the best argument I've seen so far to not bring up any convos about reconcile or the marriage.
I am quite familiar with the quote that you wrote down and the articles associated with it are tremendous.
Solo Partner is NOT an MLC book, FTR.
It is a relationship book.
And the author was a very good marriage counselor.
There is more information about that book associated with the forum there. That I can highly recommend you read.
It will give you all the traits. Whether they are pursuit or distance ones for each person.
They are copied directly from the book.
Hope that helps.
I will eat up anything you can recommend in terms of online articles etc.
I have ordered quite a few books that should get here mid week so I'll be up to my ears in terms of reading things in hand. But as I'm laid in bed recuperating so reading material is fantastic.
What are your thoughts on if they haven't pursued after 4 months that there's no love there anymore?
Also based on what you've seen on my thread do you think he's cake eating or getting his fix? He does come over usually about once a week, we hang out and watch tv. Since I decided to LET GO (ie be friends not pursue) those visits haven't been as regular. I wasn't as available. I was travelling. I did cave once and say feels like I haven't seen you in ages and he said oh I'll come by on Wednesday. So we do see each other once a week on average.
What are your thoughts on if they haven't pursued after 4 months that there's no love there anymore?
That could be one of the symptoms and not neccesarily the disease.
However your thread is full of him pursuing you.
Stop EXPECTING this to be FIXED quickly.
It does not work that way.
Let me know when you find the other post that I recommended.
Last night I slept the entire night through. I haven't done this in a while and I'm so so happy. I woke up feeling good. No crazy dreams about him, no waking up with anxiety. Just sleep.
I am reading that thread that you posted earlier in mine. It's a lot of Q&A so gleaning what I can and learning from other's questions and mistakes there.
Just in case you are wondering what mindset represents what may be going through your husbands head, look up a guy named Athol Kay. He recognizes that strength and independence is sexy to women and gives advice accordingly.
He recognizes that strength and independence is sexy to women and gives advice accordingly.
I think those things CAN be sexy to everyone, male or female.
Brit, I've been reading your thread all along and I like the way you think and write. You're getting a lot of great advice which helps all of us.
Thanks for posting.
Thanks Bug! That really means a lot to me!
I have had no contact with H since he sent me that very long witty text on Friday after a conversation with a coworker made me think of him. I replied with two lines and that was that no reply from him.
I will update him on Tuesday after the doc appt. just the same as I will update friends of mine who are worried/interested/concerned.
Today I decided to put a picture of us back up. I'd taken down all the pics including ones of family holidays because it was too hard to look at. I also put back up a photo board of a family holiday that also includes pictures of my son. I'm not trying to make anything happen with this. I like those pictures...they got put back up. Do I worry if he comes over he'll feel cagey seeing them? A teeny bit but I'll worry about that the next time I know he's coming by.
I remembered something today and thought it was interesting. I can't remember when but post GF he told me his mom said she'd tried to talk his dad into going to counselling. I just said how's that come up and he said oh I told her that you'd wanted me to go. That was as far as it went. At the time I was just thinking that was all about his parents. But now I'm thinking if it differently. He loves values respects his mom. He hated the way his dad treated his mom. I am a lot like his mom. His mom and dad are now both married to other people. He hates his step mom. His step mom is 180 degrees away from his mom (hmm a lot like this GF) anyway he once told me that he thought we were "too smart" for counselling. I'm now thinking that his mom saying that could have him thinking of MC in another light.
I have no expectations and maybe this convo will change his mind in MC but with me! Haha but I am realising that he was probably saying more than he thought in that statement.
I know how I felt when I had blinders. And I'm using that to have empathy for him. Also I know that everyone in his life is probably really excited that he has someone. (who is young and successful vom) and he's feeding off that to help him heal. And when you're doing that you can't/don't want to stop that feeling to look back because all you associate with the past is sadness and hurt. And knowing the other person has feelings for you leaves you with guilt and so any time you might feel something it's all conflicted with guilt. And because no one likes to feel guilt you block it even more. You only stop feeling guilt when you know everyone's okay!
He does know how I feel that I still care for him. But I am not being desperate needy or sad. Those days are well behind me.
One massive positive is that when we spilt I was convinced it was a never get back together do just pack up and move on. He hasn't said that. He's said timing [censored], maybe we can get to a place where we can go on dates, if in the future the spark is there, and most recently if something changes in the future then great. So for him it's not as off the table as it was for me.
I meant NOT with me as in maybe he'll have MC with someone else haha
loads of mistakes
I have had no contact with H since he sent me that very long witty text on Friday after a conversation with a coworker made me think of him. I replied with two lines and that was that no reply from him.
Made HIM think of ME
One massive positive is that when we spilt I was convinced it was a never get back together do just pack up and move on. He hasn't said that. He's said timing [censored], maybe we can get to a place where we can go on dates, if in the future the spark is there, and most recently if something changes in the future then great. So for him it's not as off the table as it was for me.
Wow - when was this? Recently?
You have such great insight into your situation and how the guilt contributes to the equilibrium of the R! It's also nice to read about how you can feel empathy for him, having had your blinders on in the past. I can relate - I told my IC that I also have empathy and patience because I remember how it felt to be lost about where the R was going. I remember when H said during MC that while I was in my fog he was deathly afraid of D and then at some point he no longer feared it. I thought this was a positive because we would be on more rational ground! Oops, it turns out once he started thinking of D he "couldn't get it out of his head" and here we are. Ah well.
You sound like you're in a good place. Keep it up!
April 12th we had a really good R talk in which I had said that in the past month I'd felt lied to because he'd said that perhaps we could get to a place where we could go on dates but then he continued a relationship with someone and those two things don't go together. He said then that timing s*cks. (I'm learning DB doesn't like that word) That it's all timing and I had said look 10 years from now we don't want to have dinner and say oh we had a good thing but we let it slip away because of timing. He said everything is timing isn't it and then he proceeded to say basically that he didn't trust himself not to lose himself in the relationship if we got back together due to my strong personality.
He's even joked pre GF that he was going to find the dumbest most gullible woman who will just smile and make him dinner. Because I'm confident, smart, with an attitude. Everything he was attracted to previously. We laughed about that. When he met GF he told me "it's all a bit too easy" "she just can't believe she got someone so good looking" he can't believe "all this works" because he's "doing all the same old bs and it's so easy" It was never like that between us. He said I scared him silly, I kept him on his toes. He thought I dumping him the night we ML. He was just trying to keep up and impress me. We used to have a joke that he would spill something on every date in the beginning because I made him so nervous. So I'm a big scary woman who broke his heart and now he doesn't want to come back.
Anyway this most recent time was Thursday. I told him just so you know I still feel that way. and he said our romantic relationship is over. I don't want to lead you on. If something changes in the future great, but right now he just wants to be my friend.
Also things he said on the 12th....he thinks about the last time we ML a lot. He will always love me, always want to get in my pants. (this was way out of character because he was never the aggressor previously) It would be a shame if this was all there was because we had a great story.
So my mantra is to give him this time to become confident and strong in who he is. Regain his self esteem that he lost through various life circumstances. (we were in a natural disaster and lost everything we owned. We moved he was forced to take a job he hated while I went back to university and landed my dream job) And maybe once he becomes that person again he will want to share himself with me. All I can do is support his choices, not pressure him with pursuit or expectations and keep that road paved clean.
Happy Mother's day to all the moms in the states!
My H has also said that maybe in the future we'll be able to date again and see what happens, but that first we have to D and try to move on. I guess I just don't see why you would D if you think that there could be a chance of reconciliation, but I'm not in charge of the sitch, so it really doesn't matter what I think.
My H had his son move 1,000 miles away last year and is currently in a job where he and his counterpart (who just gave notice on Friday) are treated with little respect. I think that these are just a few of the reasons why it's not working so well between us right now.
I'm also trying to be supportive, without pressure, in hopes that he'll get his life back the way he wants it and maybe that will include a place for me. It's just hard to simultaneously have hope that we will get back together and also prepare to be on my own in case that never happens.
I guess I look at it like this...I am on my own now. So there's no preparing for it and so are you. So I'm becoming happier and happier on my own and still have hope for the future....come what may
Corny I know but it's true.
I do want what's best for him and only a selfish person wants a R even if it isn't the best for both people. Also I really like him as a person! And I want to always know him even if it's as friends.
I guess I'm a little bit lucky in that neither of us has brought up D. There is a visa issue he has to sort out before that can happen. I have left that visa issue squarely in his corner and it hasn't been brought up. He told me ages ago his company started the paperwork but I've heard nothing. I'll cross the D bridge when we come to it. Pre Change of Heart I'd done all the research and told him all about it.
I know I'm here a lot...I just to talk...and vent...and work through stuff. And I'd rather do it here where people can point out my gains or where my thought process is going crazy.
OLD GROUND.
So today the auction for the piece of furniture ends. I want to buy it but I also feel weird about him saying he'll go pick it up. When he was at my place he gave a lot of excuses about how it wouldn't fit and then said yeah plus I just really don't want to. And I said hey, fine no big deal. Then later I put on FB did any of my friends have access to a truck and would be willing to pick up a piece of furniture..I'd pay gas etc. I did not put this up passive aggressively. I didn't mention him in the post, I genuinely hoped one of my many friends would say yeah I could do that! After a few friends made funny jokes he commented and said hey, fine, I'll go.
Now today I feel strange, do I really take him up on that offer. It's that old chestnut of does he mean what he says or is he saying what I want. I don't know if I *should* take him up on his offer.
This was a big problem in our relationship. Him saying yes to something. Whether it was a vacation or a movie or what we'd have for dinner and me second guessing it and him acting sh*tty about it the whole time. 2 months ago we discussed this in an argument. He said I can't tell you what you want to hear I'm not doing that anymore. And I said good! Because I never knew what the heck you you were really thinking and then I'd walk around on eggshells and double triple guess what you really meant because you never told me.
ARGH so do I let him be the delivery man even though he might not really want to be? Or do I just forget the whole thing?
(and then am I just doing what I always did...sacrificing something I want because I'm unclear on his feelings about the situation?)
Mamma Mia this is some kinda breakthrough...this is the entire relationship personified in an ebay ad!!!
and on second (or are we on 4th) thought...perhaps that WAS the 180. I asked him for something. He said no, he didn't want to. And I didn't react. I just said fine. I wasn't upset. I didn't try to persuade. He saw that if he was honest with him, stood up to me, didn't even need an excuse I would respect that and be cool with it...and THAT caused him later to say yes, I'll do it.
Oh bloody hell I think this tightrope is wobbly!
nothing much to report. He liked one of my FB statuses this morning. Not pursuit...nothing really.
I'm a big believer in astrologer (don't judge me haha) and from today for the next 6 weeks is a great time for most signs to go over old ground in relationships either with your current partner or looking at where you went wrong and learning about yourself. I think this great news...no don't have expectations but knowing that even the universe is giving us all a bit of help in helping ourselves is great news.
Hi Brit,
I love your posts and your spirit. Glad to hear about the universe's help as we all could use it
Even though you were not pressuring your H with your fb post about the truck, I am wondering if your H perceived it that way. If he felt as if he lost himself and gave in during your M, this may end up bothering him. I am concerned that he may unfairly think that nothing's changed and he can not be the man he wants to be in the M. I may be totally off and misread your past relationship dynamics. What do you think?
((( )))
hmmmmm so here's the skinny.
I texted him about some "housekeeping" things joint bills we pay and he called me. He never calls...always prefers text! He referred to me by a pet name and said just seemed easier to call.
We chatted about all the bills stuff.
He asked about my health.
He told me he'd picked up a few dining chairs for me that he'd seen someone giving away because he knew I wanted some. (back when he moved into his own place friends were throwing furniture etc at him and I said hey if anyone offers you dining chairs. but that was months ago)He said if you don't want them I can toss em, but right now they're waiting for me to deliver them to you.
Then I told him "Listen do you want me just to leave that whole ebay item thing alone? I didn't know if you were really up for doing that or if you only agreed because you felt bad and didn't really want to go. And I'm not trying to make you do anything you don't want to do"
He said yeah, I mainly said yes because I felt bad. I hate to see you begging for someone to help when I can.
I said I wasn't begging...I honestly just thought someone might be up for it.
He said to be honest borrowing my mother's truck to drive 100 miles and pick up a piece of furniture for you will be a political nightmare on my end...but at the same time it seems a shame to pass it up.
I said I don't want to cause any trouble for you....with anyone in your life ...but I do really want it. haha
(v. strange dance we're playing here...does he mean his mom? not very likely she and I get along great. But it's possible that she may think he does too much for me. As a mom she might be looking out for him. Does he mean GF? most likely. I sure as hell would think it strange if my BF was doing this for the woman he's separated from)
he said well then leave it or I guess see what the seller says
So we left it at that.
I have wondered as GREENBLUE mentioned how GF feels about our involvement. I don't know how much he tells her. I don't want to be the subject of their arguments. I don't want to be something that prevents him from anything in his life. I also don't want to be the catalyst where he has to say "no, I want to be with you GF. I'll stop doing this and that. I don't want that." I've said before if I met a man who had been separated for 4 months and I was the first person he'd been on a date with I'd run a mile...I wouldn't become his GF.
You're right Grace! I'm leaving the whole thing alone. I don't know if I just don't bring it up ever again or if I let him know that I'm not taking him up on his offer because I don't want to be a source of conflict or take him up on any offer made out of guilt. I'm just going to say: I don't ever want to put you in an uncomfortable place. argh but that's not really true...if honesty is uncomfortable than sometimes you have to deal with that uncomfortable-ness. Okay I'm just going to pretend it was a female friend of mine in this situation and I was texting her saying don't worry about it. By the way I plan on tacking this onto the text tomorrow after the dr appt.
I do find it interesting him saying I feel bad and wanted to do something for you but know how people in my life will oppose that. So he at least recognises that his feelings for me don't jive with what other people in his life will agree with. So in his mind/heart he'll have to figure out are my feelings correct or are the people around me correct.
I had left that ebay thing alone. Had typed it out and then deleted it, hoping you would see how you could handle it in an appropriate way, and I believe you did.
Now notice that he indicated he agreed because he felt bad. Probably a trait that you liked about him. Even though you didn't realize it would be something he regretted years later.
Remember that he indicated he was no longer going to be that person, yet he did it... again...
He's still stuck on you. That is the type of thing that a lot of people I've read here say they'd want from their man. Someone who would walk a million miles and cross an ocean and the andes mountain to "be there" for them...
And a good man would...
But sadly, it leads to expectations... and what's next for a man who has already done an inhuman feat? It's a bar that we set that's near impossible for us to live up to.
Then notice he indicated the "political problem" if he did this for you. It could come from any end, but...
It is up to you to make your own choices and do what you want to do. And it is up to your H to do the same. Using someone else to put the spotlight on...
If he's still doing or not doing things because of someone else...? Then he isn't being that man he says he wants to be... He needs to practice that, more...
Don't worry about being some sort of problem between your H and his GF... that's between the two of them... it does not mean pressure him to do things with or for you... it means if he offers, and you can be sure and clear that he is making a choice of his own accord and not feeling that obligation... well...
Now take a bit of a look at the dynamic of what's just gone on between the two of you...
Did you buy the item because you had hoped he would step in and help?
or did you buy the item because you wanted it... and hoped to find someone to help you get it to you?
Tell me deep down in your core... you didn't have some expectations that your H might... just might... step up... that maybe you were even hoping...
How do you feel knowing that he was once again doing something because he felt obligated or otherwise bad for you...?
And yet... notice that once he offered, you stopped looking for help... and that now that he's said no... you are thinking of trying to change your mind on the purchase...
What message do you think that will give to your H?
My suggestion...?
Figure out how to get that item you purchased... there's companies that will haul that kind of stuff... and it can be "bulk" hauled so that the cost doesn't have to be extremely expensive...
Or keep looking for help and let someone know that you will pay their fuel and a stipend (or beer and pizza; the standard payment for mover friends...)... and get that item to you...
Here's the thing I never bought the item. That's why he said see what the seller says because I let the item end because I felt I don't know strange about it inside, and no one bid.
I was so conflicted about him agreeing to do it..publicly on my FB page, and then what that would mean...IE would I go with him, would he go alone, would the GF go with him on an errand for me.I just felt strange about the whole situation even though he said yes.
I emailed the seller on Sunday to see if she was still wanting to sell and then I talked to him about it today. I told him that I had "forgotten" to bid while I was busy yesterday.
So a big part of me knew something about this wasn't right. I hated feeling even the tiniest bit that he might be doing something out of guilt or obligation for me. Not only do I not want him to do that, but I don't want to be that person NEEDING something, and I don't want him to feel that way as if he owes me or has to help me out. I had resigned myself to NOT having the item when I posted that on FB. So it was shock when he volunteered after telling me no.
So I'm not sure if he's sees it as a "without my help she doesn't do things in her life" or because I never bid on it he's thinking I guess this all worked out for the best.
I've started reading How to Improve Your Marriage without talking about it and it could have been written exactly for us. We were homeless for a short time after a natural disaster, he did have a horrible job that undermined his ability to be proud of himself, I did complain about his driving constantly. I don't want him to feel like a failure in this situation
Remember that he indicated he was no longer going to be that person, yet he did it... again...
He's still stuck on you. That is the type of thing that a lot of people I've read here say they'd want from their man. Someone who would walk a million miles and cross an ocean and the andes mountain to "be there" for them...
I feel like this is one of the biggest that will keep us apart. He thinks that within a few months he will be that person again always saying yes to me even if it makes him unhappy. He even said he it just be the same in 3 months time. he doesn't trust himself to stick to his changes
If he's still doing or not doing things because of someone else...? Then he isn't being that man he says he wants to be... He needs to practice that, more...
I agree one hundred percent. I can only hope he comes to that realization on his own.
On his lunch break he texted me some random trivia about our favorite tv show. I replied and at the end just said by the way decided against the chair. He replied about the show and didn't mention the chair.
so...
you were testing him...?
If so... and dig deep to see if that is or is not a real possibility, deep down...
That might be something you want to focus and work on...
What is it that causes you to enlist others to help you do what you want? Why can't you rent a moving van, grab a friend, and go for a ride to pick up a bigger item...?
What is it about you, that serves you... to appear helpless?
IF someone chooses to help... why do you feel guilty about their reasons for helping you?
Why would you place a greater emphasis or meaning out of them helping you?
Focus on you...
Not on your H and what ever meanings he might place on his choices...
I know that I have issues with power and control. You know that cliche about the queen bee with everyone running around doing her bidding. yeah that was me in High School.
I know in my personal relationships if you do things for me and make sacrifices I know you love me. I don't believe that. I either know and trust your love or I never will. I have told him that I recogize that all I did was give him more and more hoops to jump through and there would never be a final one that would make me think SEE he does love you now you can calm down. It was my insecurity in not believing that I was loveable.
I feel like this whole thing is one big mess. Because I recognize that I want someone to prove they love me by doing something but not if it's out of pity? Does that make sense? I don't know I'm piecing together now.
I was genuinely shocked when he volunteered after he told me no. I had no right to ask him in the first place. I had looked into moving vans/shipping companies and their quotes were more than I thought the item was worth to me. So maybe me asking was a test....Maybe without realizing it, I'd gotten too comfortable with him doing things for me that day (it was the day of the medical drama) and so I slipped into old patterns and asked him to jump through a hoop.
When I talked to him today I THOUGHT I was asking for clarification but instead I was making doing an old pattern. Here we are 3 days later with a whole lot of emotions and no chair. (I don't even want the effing thing!)
Also I'm realizing this is EXACTLY something his mom would do and I would hate her for it.
I've made some new rules Kaffe:
1) Don't tell him your plans for self improvement or GAL
2) Don't look to him for conversation, reassurance, emotional support
3) don't ask for favours
4) if he volunteers say and really mean it.
5) don't tell him about weight loss (that's looking for reassurance)
6) be bright, fun, breezy, attractive, and just let him notice
7) you're standing for your marriage...but you're not fighting for it so no pursuit
I know that I have issues with power and control. You know that cliche about the queen bee with everyone running around doing her bidding. yeah that was me in High School.
lol... that IS my W...
and including the stuff you wrote below about how you feel loved...
Which might be one of those reasons why I have chosen you to work with...
Also, I can't remember... did you read the 5LLs? If so, what do you THINK is your LL?
Your LL might be accurate and it could be acts of service... but as you indicate... it might be a skewed "meaning" that you place on those acts that you might need to review...
How you mention about receiving acts of service is interesting... humans do often "test" for love... the skew that you may have introduced might come from a feeling of being unworthy of love... so if they give you love once... you don't believe it... so you wait for it to happen again... and you don't believe it... so you wait for it to happen again...
How about just accepting an act of service as an act of love... and leave it at that... don't question it and demand more show of love...
It was a double bind. That's what the above is... he wanted to show his love for you... and then you denied it... he was damned if he didn't... and damned if he did...
Only you can change that dynamic.
It was a hard lesson I learned many, many moons ago... that I COULD accept love... period... no string attached... from either side...
When I talked to him today I THOUGHT I was asking for clarification but instead I was making doing an old pattern. Here we are 3 days later with a whole lot of emotions and no chair. (I don't even want the effing thing!)
hahahahaa... a test it was, no doubt...
I've made some new rules Kaffe:
1) Don't tell him your plans for self improvement or GAL
2) Don't look to him for conversation, reassurance, emotional support
3) don't ask for favours
4) if he volunteers say and really mean it.
5) don't tell him about weight loss (that's looking for reassurance)
6) be bright, fun, breezy, attractive, and just let him notice
7) you're standing for your marriage...but you're not fighting for it so no pursuit
Awesome new goals!
Always remember... course correct if and as necessary...
Life is about change, no matter how much we seek or believe in consistency or constancy...
The world will provide us with abundance if we accept that change happens and accept that change... and roll with it... and course correct as necessary...
So this is where it should come from as no surprise that I had an alcoholic father who often broke promises then got sober and regained my trust. I know he would be there for me in a heartbeat.
I'm really glad you've chosen to work with me!
I have ordered LL and I read the website. From the test on there mine is Quality Time and Words of Affirmation. I know in giving love I like to give gifts. I love finding the perfect thing, something really unique that will blow people away. He HATES getting gifts.
I am going to change that dynamic because I don't want to be someone who puts demands or tests on whoever I'm in a relationship with. I have told him this but I have to exercise it.
It was a double bind. That's what the above is... he wanted to show his love for you... and then you denied it... he was damned if he didn't... and damned if he did...
hmmm he wanted to show his love for me but not really have to do that errand. I couldn't just leave well enough alone.
Then he wanted to do the errand but not get all the hassle from outside influences. So I took the opportunity for him to either stand up to those people or stand up to me off the table. I guess that was the double bind. He's left feeling like he disappointed me. Perhaps I should have left the decision up to him. Let him stick by his choices/commitments/decisions or say no to someone.
So what do I call my new thread...have a feeling I'm gonna get locked soon!
My parents were alcoholics (my dad's recovered, my mother still is) so I understand how one can feel confused and uncertain about the love they are getting...
If you have not, please find resources for ACOA (adult children of alcoholics). You may find it valuable.
You believe your LL is quality time and words of affirmation (which I believe mine are, as well). Curious then, that your "giving" LL is gifts.
Basically, in that type of situation, one would consider that you give gifts to show love, because you learned at some point that someone you wanted love from likes gifts. So in order to have your needs met, you met theirs.
It is OK to do this. But the reality is, if a person's LL is words of affirmation... in general, they will provide words of affirmation to those they respect and love...
I think I give gifts because my mother's LL is gifts. I believe I give quality time because my dad's LL is quality time. My mom was a huge gift giver but was emotionally unavailable. My dad was always busy doing OTHER things... see my pattern?
What I REALLY want is for someone to tell me that they are sorry. To tell me that I am important to them. To let me know they respect me...
But I love spending time with my friends... and I love getting gifts...
I believe that my W's LL is gifts. So when she was opting out of the M, she stopped accepting gifts from me, letting me know that it felt uncomfortable for her to get gifts from me. I also believe that my W's secondary (or they're flipped) is acts of service. So again, she does not want me to do "things" for her.
But...
She continues to do things for me... and she continues to send gifts to me... done in very covert, vague ways... and then when I tell her that I don't want gifts from her or accept services (ie. flexibility in kid's schedule), she explodes... ie. She has asked for flexible schedule... but then tells me that I can't adjust the schedule by an hour (a favour I would be asking for, so an act of service she does not want to give), stating that the pick up times are set and should be adhered to. Then, two days later, she is asking for a favour on next week's schedule. (what works for her and serves her needs)... when I point out the discrepancy, she blows a nut and demands rigidity in the schedule. BTW: My W might be MLC, so her behaviour would be slightly "exaggerated" compared to a WAS.
Be the person you want to be. No need to tell anyone (well, definitely share with us here), just do it.
And... support your H to be the person he wants to be. Which is why it was great that you called him on his "re-lapse" (even though we know you were testing...)
And... this just might lead to a renewed appreciation of the two of you, for each other... and...
who knows what might happen...
And... support your H to be the person he wants to be. Which is why it was great that you called him on his "re-lapse" (even though we know you were testing...)
And... this just might lead to a renewed appreciation of the two of you, for each other... and...
who knows what might happen...
I am stepping back and monitoring unconscious types of pursuit. Like I had mentioned earlier the asking for reassurance asking for favors etc.
I talked to my best friend tonight. She actually laughed until she almost cried when I said honestly what you say if I told you that my new BF 2 months was running errands for the woman that left him 6 months ago. And they're still really good friends. She was like uh no. I would be like no. that's really weird. She said I've been thinking about it from your end, I don't want you get lead on or get hurt. But gosh this girl must be going crazy wondering if that's going on.
She said something really insightful that made me feel great. She said in a way you have nothing to lose because you don't have him to lose. It's over. You're not trying to hold on to him. If anything you're doing everything to maintain less of an emotional relationship. The only thing to lose is the friendship and I don't think that will happen between you too.
I think about where I was LAST Monday compared to today and it's a complete 180. I feel confident and in control. I'm not worried about the future. Whatever happens happens. I'm getting comfortable with the relationship we have right now and attempting to navigate that.
And I have all of you to thank for this!
oh I am getting LL this week so I will do some more work into that. It's very interesting though...I wonder who in my life was blown away by my gift...or gave me great gifts.
Right now I'm half way through How to improve your marriage without talking about it. Where was this book 3 years ago???
I had the same reaction to that book.
I am going to give that book to someone as a wedding present!
lol... don't hurt yourself trying to figure out who you (so extremely desired to receive love from and) felt love from when you gave them gifts...
Because it's also possible that your real LL is gifts... but you THINK your LL is words of affirmation or quality time, because that's what your dad or someone gave you and you felt loved by them...
Dig deep... go through the five and really know what makes you feel special when you GET... AND what really makes you feel special when you DO for others... THAT is more likely your LL...
I have a few exGFs who at some points in my life, I would have considered re-engaging with them in a more intimate way... most of those, not so much anymore... although I certainly appreciate their company and friendship...
Just because you have accepted what is as what is, does not mean that you can't be open to possibilities...
Just live your life in the most authentic way you can...
Any thoughts on your new thread title?
The walk away who stood still?
He texted me tonight about something I mentioned to him earlier. I turned down his offer of help. (something unrelated to eBay-gate) I just said no worries I'll buy one tomorrow. No reply.
Hi Brit, just catching up on your thread. Your posts from the WAS perspective have given me my own things to think about.
Hope your day is going well!
thank you...I have a new thread now!
Brit,
tell me your thoughts on how your mind changed about your relationship. Was it when he GAL, that you turned around?