Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: hopingandpraying Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/02/12 11:41 PM
Link to my old thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...143#Post2242143

Venting/Journaling:

Another bad day at work...May is not looking good for me as of now frown

I'm trying to look to the positive side of things and know the good in my life--I have a job that I love, loving friends, amazing people on this forum, loving family, a house/home over my head...to name a few.

It is just tough on these days to come home and not be able to vent to my best friend. I know that's living in the past and I need to move forward to my new future, which as of right now, does not include my H and I have vented to other people and they have been great! smile

Really trying to move forward...day by day...minute by minute! I've named my thread optimistic...not hopeless because even if my M is truly over, which it really seems that way now, I am optimistic about the future ahead of me...even on these not so good days! frown
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/03/12 12:25 AM
I love the tile of your new thread! Keep the positive thinking going!!
Posted By: hopeless in wa Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/03/12 11:28 PM
I think you are doing really well. I get the missing the best friend to vent.
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/04/12 12:22 AM
I"m trying to keep the positive thinking going. I tell my coworkers every day to think of something good in their lives when they are down on themselves.

I feel it's just so hard in our situations because it just feels like the rug has been pulled up from under us. I also feel though that I should be better off than I am, because my H has been out of the house for almost 3 months and we've had VERY little contact (saw each other 5 times, texted maybe 20 texts back and forth, and talked on the phone maybe 5x) and NOTHING for the past 3 1/2 weeks!

I am no longer thinking about him every minute of the day, but I still do think about him and wonder what he's thinking. I just miss my old H and miss the good times.

I am doing more GAL activities and trying to better myself. I just don't know how much longer I can go on like this...being rejected from my H, who not too long ago couldn't wait to hold me at night!
Posted By: scaredsilly Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/04/12 01:19 AM
the rollercoaster goes down the hill and the pain returns...again. the pain and fear i read on these posts is so moving. i'm with you. we're all with you. we will all get through this. people have before us and we're just as strong and as good as they are. we will be happy again. hang in there. tomorrow will be better!
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/05/12 02:52 AM
So I have been thinking...I've been dark with no contact with my H for 3 1/2 weeks. The last time we talked, it was a pretty good argument in person, then screaming over the phone, and then ended with texting that we should wait a couple weeks and discuss things further as to let things cool down.

As stated before, my H has moved into his own apartment (has not told me personally, told a friend), still has belongings here...bedroom furniture, tv stand, and military memorabilia, and has not filed for D even though he is the one who states he wants it.

My only question now is...does he think I'm not contacting him because I was so mad on the phone and am holding a grudge? That is one of his complaints about me...that he doesn't want to work on things with me because he 'knows' I will not be able to get over things.

I have trust issues with him from an EA he had over a year ago, which was hard to get over, but then he just made it worse by having an EA/PA starting this January, so he really thinks that I will never be able to get over this one.

Part of my fear is that he now just thinks I'm mad. I guess, though, if he thinks that I'm mad and still wanted to contact me, he would. But he hasn't. So, I guess I have my answer...that he still does not want anything to do with me at this point. Right??
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/05/12 04:04 AM
Stay dark.
Posted By: labug Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/05/12 12:30 PM
That is one of his complaints about me...that he doesn't want to work on things with me because he 'knows' I will not be able to get over things.


Was this before or after the affairs?

You have a lot to "get over"-married 5 years and he's had 2 As. Can you get over the affairs, really forgive him?

I think you're right to not contact him. It will give you a chance to figure out what you want.
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/05/12 02:06 PM
It was after the affairs. The first one lasted only like 1 week and it was just texting. I'm not really too sure about this last one because he's not even willing to try to reconcile. I still think he is with this OW...not even sure because we don't talk.

A huge part of me thinks that I can get over this and really forgive because I know the man he can be when he's happy about life and I know the woman I can be when I'm loving every minute of life and looking positively towards my future.

As of now, I still want my H home working on things with me, but in the mean time I'm 'moving on' with my life without him.
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/05/12 03:05 PM
T2P and Labug are right -- do not reach out. You want to contact him, so the whole "maybe he's waiting for me" thing above is just something you are making up to justify contacting him.

You're doing the best thing you can do by giving him space and not reaching out. I know its tearing you up, but reaching out to him won't work and will just set you back. Resist mind reading and trying to second guess yourself. He knows his stuff is there, he knows where to find you, and he will when he is ready. He really wants space so you are being the best partner you can be right now. Hang tough!

If you don't think you can take it, but a date on your calendar for 5 weeks from today. After 5 more weeks, allow yourself to reach out. When the day comes, you can decide to reach out if you need to, decide to continue dark, or decide to move on with your life. Having that date in your calendar can be reassuring.

You are showing incredible discipline, its very impressive. Keep going!

Accuray
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/05/12 04:50 PM
You are all right that I'm just trying to justify it. If he wants to get his stuff or talk to me, he will. I do need to stop mind reading because who knows what his deal is?!?!

I've been dark for almost 4 weeks now, is 5 weeks from now too long?

I am trying day by day to move on with my life. I am happy with myself and the accomplishments that I have made and my new goals that I have set for myself (get into better shape, eat healthier, continue to do things for myself).

I just think to truly 'move on' I would be on the look out for a future partner. I am a strong, independent person and am happy with myself...I just yearn for that connection and future with someone. Is that wrong to think right now?
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/06/12 12:58 AM
Not at all, there is only what you want. Only you know if its right or wrong. 5 more weeks is not too long because there is no too long, there is only the timeline that represents how long you are willing to wait before moving on.

2 months is not too long to go dark. If you read on the MLC forum 2 months actually seems to be a common point where the WAS will tentatively reach out, although they may immediately take off again.

If he's involved in a physical affair, it can be four or five months before the bloom comes off the rose. Realistically you could wait up to a year before H reconsiders and even then there are no guarantees.

You are best served by being dark. He is far more likely to remember the good times when you are not available to him. You're more interesting when he thinks you're a prize to be won versus someone who is sitting home alone waiting for his return. Your silence is making a statement -- that you are valuable, and not as dependent upon him as he may have thought.

Keep it going.

Accuray
Posted By: Brit45 Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/07/12 02:02 PM
Thank you Accuray, I needed to read this today. I gave in on my 6 day going dark and did get a positive response but I think you're right. I need to know that he wants to contact me. ARGH! it's all horrible. 3 months ago he would have jumped straight back into our relationship....now he's got an OW, a flat, and no me.
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/07/12 10:27 PM
Thanks Accuray! You are right that my silence is making a statement that I don't 'need' him.

Do you know if the 2 months for the MLC is time separated or time going dark?? I was just wondering. Either way, we have been only been separated for 3 months. However, I see NO improvement in reconciling our M...it has only become worse.

I, do, see improvements in myself and my ability to go out more and enjoy the people I love. I couldn't do that at first. It was just too hard. I have less moments when I cry, but they do come about.

He is/was involved in a PA...not sure if it's still happening since we have not talked in a month and the last time we talked about it, he said it was no longer a PA just more of an EA, but he definitely could have been lying. Oh well...if he's lying to me and himself, then he's lying to her also!
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/08/12 12:00 AM
If he's still involved with OW, either physically and emotionally, then your reconciliation journey isn't even at the starting line yet. She has to be gone, then he has to mourn the loss, and THEN he will start thinking of you again. Until that happens, all you can do is take care of yourself and not make the situation worse -- and that's exactly what you're doing by staying dark, both taking care of you by learning to detach, and not making the situation worse by pursuing him when he wants space.

You're doing exactly the right thing, as counter-intuitive as it may feel.

Accuray
Posted By: Brit45 Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/08/12 04:46 PM
hopingandpraying I've decided to stop thinking of going dark as a tactic to get him to notice me and instead as a tactic to stop me THINKING about the M.
Make a list of everything you would do if there was nothing stopping you from the crazy to basic. I did that and I'm going to start chipping away at that list. Okay perhaps I'm not booking a trip to the Inca trail but I am starting a meditation class next week. Way out of my comfort zone. I'm looking into recovering second hand dining room chairs. I've quit smoking (24 hours in right now!)
I'm also signing up to do a lot of stuff. I've volunteered for some extra shifts at work events. I'm planning a company party. I even joined a social/singles meet up group and going to a board game night.
The past few weeks I've wanted to do NOTHING and now I'm planning stuff just to be busy and get out and about.
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/08/12 11:59 PM
I agree with you Brit that it is for me, because in the end I only see a small amount of hope for reconciling our marriage. I know I'll be happy when all is said and done...no matter which path I am on, but I guess I'm just still in disbelief that any of this happened. We were the 'it' couple for 8 years...I just need to get that out of my head! frown

As for GAL activities, I have started working out more frequently and began tanning (makes me feel better about myself). I have also reconnected with old friends and try to keep my weekends busy with family and friends. I am busy with work a lot so I don't have much spare time during the week.

I'm glad to hear you are GALing. It sounds like you are doing well!

1 month of no contact...I can't even believe it! I just don't understand how disposable and replaceable I have become to my H. I need to stop that thinking!!!
Posted By: Brit45 Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/09/12 02:38 PM
Tanning makes me feel great too! I grew up in a sunny climate and now live in a place with very little sun. Anything that makes you feel good.

I know what you mean about IT couple. Everyone was shocked and less than a year before we split. Two separate friends of ours said you guys are so funny/cute together you should have a reality show.

1 month of no contact? oh babe I might be going insane if that were the case. You are NOT DISPOSABLE. I do know when I first split with H I detached and put on my blinders because it was easier to move forward if I wasn't thinking about him, his feelings, or my decision about the marriage. If he has an OW then it probably makes it very easy for him to not think about your relationship and just get wrapped up in it.

I firmly 100% believe that everyone rethinks that breakup (unless you're married to Sleeping with the Enemy or something) ACCURAY hit the nail on the head (as usual). We all know rebounds don't work.

GAL'ing is great! People keep complimenting me on my weight loss. They say what's your secret and I say uh, get a divorce it works wonders and then laugh. Seriously though keep taking care of yourself!
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/09/12 06:35 PM
Originally Posted By: hopingandpraying
I just don't understand how disposable and replaceable I have become to my H. I need to stop that thinking!!!


H isn't avoiding you because he has disposed of and replaced you. He's avoiding you because he feels deeply ashamed of what he has done and he can't face himself.

It's like when you break up with someone in high school, you see them walking toward you at the opposite end of the hall, and you quickly turn around and head in another direction. You're not doing that to "reject" the person, you're doing it because you're ashamed about how you've made them feel.

He is AFRAID to contact you, half because of what you might say to him to shame him, and half because of how he feels about himself due to what he has done to you.

The first half you can address by acting as if, being happy, and generally approachable when he does eventually reach out. The second half you can do nothing about except to give him space and let him get over it on his own.

Getting over it requires that he have motivation to deal with himself, it's easier to keep those feelings locked up in a dark closet. As long as OW is involved, he can keep them locked up and pretend like everything is fine -- but he knows they're there, and they creep up on him when he least expects it.

When OW is gone, or when the "in love" haze starts to fade and things start to get real, that's when he's going to start doing his own thinking.

When he does contact you, it will be important to be approachable, to be happy, and not to pepper in guilt or other shaming comments. That can be HARD but works wonders if you can pull it off. It makes you approachable versus ominous.

Accuray
Posted By: jks Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/09/12 07:53 PM
Good advice, Accuray. smile
Posted By: Broken74 Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/09/12 09:27 PM
Accuray I also wanted to thank you for your post, it's a keeper! I think what you said is exactly what is going on at this point with my WAS and I think she is about to break through... That is what I am praying for anyway.

hopingandpraying, keep your chin up and keep up the good work, you are doing great from what I read!
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/09/12 09:38 PM
Thanks, everyone!

Accuray you are right! I guess I do understand the feelings that he is quite possibly feeling. It just is hard to understand.

I am patiently waiting for that chance to play the 'as if' role because I have not been able to play that in front of him in a month because the last time I blew up at him.

The other thing that bothers me is that he did the change of address, has not told me where he has moved, and I know that mail that I need (property taxes and car payment) have been forwarded to him because they are in his name first, then mine, but the address for those two bills only come in his name.

Why can't he send a simple email or text stating that he received that tax bill? I really don't care about the car payment, because I make my payments online, but the tax bill?!?!?!? I only know about the tax bill because all of my neighbors have been talking about how they received their bills.
Posted By: wishing, hoping Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/09/12 11:13 PM
Accuray that is genius! Pure genius! I was feeling pretty downtrodden and depressed but that post is like the answer to a prayer. I feel renewed. : )
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/10/12 03:53 PM
Glad that was so helpful! HopingAndPraying, I would go to the town office and get a copy of the tax bill or get it sent to you directly if you're the one living there. He may just ignore it, and you don't want to get into a situation where your tax bill isn't paid. Wait until just before it's due, go in and ask if it's been paid. If it hasn't pay it and keep the receipt in case you need it down the line.

I will share with you what my W wrote to me after we started piecing about her frame of mind while a WAW:

"When i went back to work, i found a lot of opportunities to connect with people which i was really craving. When i think about how I felt about [OM1] or [OM2] it was the connection that was the most attractive thing about both of them. They each, in different ways, were very interested in connecting with me and that satisfied a need I had.

I didn't like the secrecy and didn't enjoy at all the anxiety that went along with it. I've known all along that how I was feeling was not OK and that looking for a connection outside our marriage was wrong. I felt stuck, scared to confront what was wrong with our marriage and scared to confront how wrong my behavior was. So i created a place where i defined us as something I needed to learn to accept and rationalized my transgressions."


So although I was getting a very "business-like" demeanor and no apparent show of regret or remorse, she really did know that what she was doing was wrong, she was scared on many fronts, and instead of facing herself, she just rationalized what she was doing. This eventually caught up with her as it will do with anyone, it's a torturous way to live.

Accuray
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/10/12 04:00 PM
Thank you so much Accuray for sharing this. I do think he knows what he is doing is wrong and he is trying to rationalize because he did tell ppl that he had the PA after he left, but we separated stating "no other people!"

I would think it is a tortuous way to live. Maybe it is catching up on him little by little, but I'll never know for the time being.

I am going to call my mortgage company and see if they received a copy and if not, then I'll have to go get a copy and send it to them.
Posted By: wishing, hoping Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/10/12 04:20 PM
Please believe that your H is ashamed to see you and afraid of what you will say and doesn't have the slightest idea of what to say to you. I asked my H at one point how he could consider me a friend when he didn't look at me or talk to me and hated being around me. He said that was very far from the truth and that he cared about me more than I will ever know but that he never knew what to say to me. I know my H is ashamed and confused but that just makes him retreat farther into the arms of OW who accepts him for who he is and has no idea about his demons and doesn't really know who he really is. I look at my H and can just see the pain in his eyes.

So don't think for a moment your H is out living the high life without you. He is running away from reality. One day reality will more than likely smack him in the face.
Posted By: RoRoinMD Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/10/12 05:03 PM
Originally Posted By: Accuray

When he does contact you, it will be important to be approachable, to be happy, and not to pepper in guilt or other shaming comments. That can be HARD but works wonders if you can pull it off. It makes you approachable versus ominous.


This is REALLY good! I needed this reminder. I don't do so good with the no guilt and no shaming thing. H always looks so defeated whenever I bring up his A.
Posted By: wishing, hoping Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/10/12 05:08 PM
I dont have to say anything to H. He just looks at me and he feels guilty.
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/10/12 09:13 PM
My MC said "an affair is just two people telling each other how wonderful they are". That's unfortunately what WAS gets from OM/OW, and why it's so hard to re-establish connection or interest in the marriage while that's going on. OM/OW is all positive, and "real life" in your marriage is both positives and negatives, as well as a toll to be paid for what they have done.

Accuray
Posted By: Nblost Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/10/12 09:33 PM
Totally agree with Accuray and I think you also typically have to add in extremely powerful sexual attraction. The chemicals being released are like drugs.

There's some great insights online if you google "affair fog".

Honestly, if you are dealing with a full blown EA/PA...I don't think it really matters what you do while the affair is ongoing. I think in an ideal world, you detach and set clear boundaries. It's just not worth the emotional energy to deal with them during the affair.

In my case, my H barely remembers most of the conversations we've had. I've filed for D and am trying to get him out of the house. If anything, he's now starting to wake up a bit...although I think it's too late. I feel done.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/10/12 10:25 PM
A lot is said about the WAS and the "fog" or the fantasy they are in when a third party is involved. However, I wonder if the LBS doesn't have some fantasy of their own.

"A huge part of me thinks that I can get over this and really forgive because I know the man he can be when he's happy about life and I know the woman I can be when I'm loving every minute of life and looking positively towards my future."

It's important that you keep a healthy outlook in life. But, let me ask you something. Is the man your H "can" be....a fantasy? What about the woman you "can" be when you're loving every minute of life? Most people are seen as being pretty good when everything is going their way, wouldn't you agree? But life teaches us that it's not going to be that way 24/7. So, then what?

If your M succeeds, you will have to forgive your H when he's at his worst.....not when he's at his best. It's not the wonderful, easy, happy times that makes us stronger....it's the hard times that gives us the tough lessons, and everyone is given a test to see how well they learned. And as much as we love those great times, we would not appreciate them if not for the bad.

You don't have to like or accept the man he is right now. But at the same time, don't build castles in clouds that will be shattered when the storm passes through.

((hugs))
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/10/12 10:40 PM
Quote:
"You don't have to like or accept the man he is right now. But at the same time, don't build castles in clouds that will be shattered when the storm passes through."


Good point, Sandi!!!
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/11/12 01:00 AM
I don't think that my new M with my H would be a fantasy. He was there not only 6 months ago. He is a very caring and loving person...just not being that way towards me right now, which still hurts me inside!

I do think the hard times make us stronger..it's what I have been my whole life. Every time something tough hits me, I become that much stronger. My H on the other hand did not have a troubled childhood so I don't think he knows how to fight for things or the people he loves.

The reason I said that thing about looking towards the future is because I know one of the things I need to work on is forgiving and not holding grudges. I need to work on that with all people in my life. That was my H's complaint about me.

Like I said, I am that person who makes changes when things are not going my way or if things are not right in my life. I am a fixer and if something is not right, I figure out why and make it work. My H, on the other hand, does not have this. His way of 'fixing

For instance, my first career choice did not work out in my favor so instead of just staying at my pointless job, I looked for a different career and earned my Master's Degree. My H is kind of at the same point in his life now...he knows his job right now is just a job and is not happy with it, but does not have the drive or whatever it is to figure out what career will make him happy.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/11/12 11:31 AM
You are probably more mature minded than your H is, given the different ways you grew up.
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/11/12 01:23 PM
Yeah I'd like to think that I am smile
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/12/12 02:56 AM
So H finally contacted me via email about getting the remainder of his belongings at my house. He apologized for everything that has happened these past few months and that he went about things the wrong way.

He also told me the things that he would pick up and is trying to get together with a friend to find a good weekend to pick up things (which I know to be a lie because I'm good friends with the wife and her H works days and is off by 3 on the weekends, so he has time to go almost any weekend.)

He then said he refinanced his car and needs my signature on the old title for the new bank refi?? He asked to forge my name...I'm going to say no to that!

He then said now onto our current situation and asked if I was going to file for D and if we are going to do this the nice way or not...meaning am I going to try to take half his pension?

He said he's been trying to put this whole thing in the back of his head and not really think about anything but he said that leads to procastination which is delaying things and anything that "life is sending our way..."

I'm heartbroken all over again because this is another step towards the big D!

I'm going to wait a couple days to respond...
Posted By: scaredsilly Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/12/12 03:13 AM
i refuse to file. if he wants a D, he can file. i'm letting his 401K and pension increase monthly.
Posted By: wishing, hoping Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/12/12 03:17 AM
(((H&P)))

We are here for you. Just keep your chin up. Remember believe none of what they say and half of what they do.
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/12/12 03:36 AM
Thanks SS and WH!

As of now, I am not going to file either. THat's my whole point...if you want the big D, then go file!!! Why won't he?
Posted By: jks Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/12/12 04:42 AM
Originally Posted By: scaredsilly
i refuse to file. if he wants a D, he can file. i'm letting his 401K and pension increase monthly.


Sometimes I wish there was a "like" button on these forums. smile
Posted By: ben11 Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/12/12 07:20 AM
Sorry to hear HAP. I know how it must feel to DB your a$$ off and be dark for a month and basically get the ole dear John letter. Good news is that you're a better person than you were before. I know it's hard to care about the silver lining right now but it's true. Not sure if you've been following my thread but I'm definitely speaking from experience. Take care of yourself and don't feel scared to rely on the people you trust to carry you through this. It will get better I promise.
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/13/12 12:08 AM
You are right that I am trying to be a better person than I was before. I do know that I need to learn to not hold grudges or to be so resentful to people that hurt me. I need to learn how to forgive more and understand that people can change!

That's just how I've always been. I put up a wall so I don't get hurt, then I let people in and I always end up getting hurt...especially by the people that were never supposed to hurt or leave me (my dad and now my husband!).

I do, honestly, feel as if I was the best wife to my H. I took care of him, our house, planned places for us to go, had a life outside my H, never really fought with him, always tried to see his side of things...

The worst thing about getting a divorce is not learning from it and that's what scares me...Besides knowing that I need to work on 'letting go' of things, I don't know what else I could have done differently to make my M work.

And the 'letting go' of things was only this past year because my H texted and took a girl out from his work over a year ago and hid it from me and dropped the bomb back then that he didn't want to be married anymore...before that bomb, I completely trusted him and had no issues with my H as a person or as a H.
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/13/12 12:51 AM
HopingAndPraying,

So sorry. You know, you don't have to respond at all if you want to talk to him. If you don't respond he'll have to call you. It's up to you if you want to do e-mail or phone. Since H seems bent on divorce at this point and is proposing an informal settlement, you may want to get a consultation with a lawyer at this point just to understand your rights. You don't have to do what the lawyer says, you don't have to hire them, but at least have them sketch out what a settlement usually looks like and what the negotiating levers are.

No need to be the "nice person" right now -- he cheated, he left, he wants divorce. Your needs should come first now, be fair, but don't go out of your way to make things easy for him.

Accuray
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/13/12 01:01 AM
Thanks Accuray! I did talk to a lawyer last week (a couple of them) and I do know what everything will look like. I am entitled to half his pension and he already signed over the house to me and refinanced his car, so it won't be too 'hard' of a divorce.

My H does not want to get a lawyer...so that's why I think he won't file. If I file, then I hire the lawyer, serve him and all he has to do is pay for his appearance in court. I would have to pay for the lawyer and more legal costs. I would in the end though get more money from his pension, so it is still cost effective for me to hire a lawyer to get part of his pension.
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/13/12 03:35 AM
I would check with Purgatory and 25 -- Purgatory also has a military pension issue with her H. I thought in her case she was benefitted by staying officially married longer. I thought the longer you stay in before a divorce is finalized, the more of the pension you are entitled to, so you're benefitted by dragging your heels. Ask them though, I'm no expert!

(Obviously if you want to continue to DB, then no rush to do anything divorce wise, just let it hang)

Accuray
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/14/12 01:08 PM
I'm at a crossroads again. I think I want to continue DB, but I don't want to be someone's second choice and if he does come back to me, I feel as if I am his second choice.

He does not have military pension, but he does have his retirement fund at his current job.

I am going to respond to his email sometime in the next couple of days, but I'm thinking I am going to respond to it, as if, I would normally talk to him...make a joke about how he sent my property taxes (he used duct tape to close the envelope) and be my normal self. I am not going to address his questions about D. If he wants it, then go get the information for it!

How do I bring up the mortgage payment? It's not due until the 1st of the month, but I would like him to send me his half...or do I not even bring it up?!?
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/14/12 01:23 PM
With regard to being a "second choice" -- I went through that too and talked about it a lot with my MC. Here's where I came out -- even if you are a "second choice" in the moment that he comes back, you're still getting a chance to participate in something better with him. That's your starting line for becoming a first choice, or someone only a fool would leave. If you can accomplish that, then a year down the line "why" he came back, or in what context, won't matter, because you'll be confident in your relationship. It does hurt initially, and there is a lot of self-doubt that comes with it. You need to deal with that yourself because if you feel like a second choice you will be one. If you can be your best and feel good about yourself, you'll know you're worthy of being a first choice.

WRT the mortgage payment, if you can cover the mortgage yourself, then plan to do so. If he continues to contribute then great, but if he doesn't, that's what you expected and planned for.

If you can't cover it yourself, or don't think that would be fair, then I would write up a list of all the logistics you want to discuss with him -- mortgage, property taxes, everything else. Make it your "for now" list, not a divorce list, and then review it all at once. That conversation may not be fun for either of you so do your best to do it once versus having to come back to it.

Accuray
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/14/12 01:56 PM
Thanks, Accuray about the 'second choice' thought! That is a great way to think.

As for the mortgage payment, we did discuss that he would have to pay half the mortgage until we are divorced because he is legally responsible for half our debt until the divorce date. He did give me May's mortgage payment early when we were dividing things up, but I don't think he will just offer it up unless I 'remind' him.
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/16/12 12:53 AM
Journal:

Today is my yard work day ever since my H left. It is a good day and bad day all wrapped in one. I get a little mad and resentful that I have to do EVERYTHING now (yard work was his ONLY job around the house), but it feels good after I do it! smile

I have not emailed my H back yet about coming to get his things. I think I will do it tomorrow. I'm going to keep it short and to the point, but make sure my bubbly personality is in there somewhere!

A LOT of people are saying that I've been 'too nice' to him, but really I guess I want to be the bigger person now...no need to hurt or try to hurt him as much as he has hurt me.

It really does urk me though that he said we aren't 'cordial' otherwise and email is the only way we can communicate. Yes, the last two times we saw each other were rough, but those were the ONLY times I blew up at him since all of this started in Feb. Otherwise, our encounters have been okay...oh well.
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/16/12 01:56 PM
The last two times are all he has to go on in terms of how you're doing now. Next time you talk live or see him, be sure to act as if!

Accuray
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/18/12 03:03 AM
Thanks, Accuray!

So I emailed him back and was very cordial and business like in the email. I said thank you for sending me the taxes and said to please not forge my name on the refi. I then said to let me know which day works for moving his things and I will let him know if that works for me. I also said to please send june's mortgage (his half)...

He responded saying that he would mail the forms that I need to sign (we only live 20 mins from each other). He also said that since I'm asking for the half of the mortgage he is assuming that I didn't take care of the quit deed (which I did), but that does not relinquish his duties of the loan still being in both our names or the fact that the house is still marital debt (which I spoke to my lawyer about last week) and that he is still responsible for half of the payment!

He then made mention that I did not answer his questions about proceeding with the D (which I did not answer because I did not want to).

I responded in a nice manner...emailing how we would usually converse with smiley faces and even made a joke (trying to act as if) and that's what I get in return.

Sometimes, I don't know why I act 'as if' when I get these short responses back. In his return email, he still doesn't say when he'll come to get his things...guess he's not in that big of a hurry!!

Still just sooo confused and am not going to respond to the email because I'm not even sure what to say...besides 'well, ding dong you're still responsible for the marital debt of our loan together until we are divorced...' But, I would never send that...
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/18/12 03:27 AM
I'm going to answer my own question...I act as if for myself because it feels good to be the bigger person smile
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/18/12 03:32 AM
Woo boo! Way to be!
Posted By: wishing, hoping Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/18/12 03:36 AM
That's right H&P. It's not easy to take the high road. But it feels better thank being mean and nasty.
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/21/12 01:44 PM
Journal:

I did a great job GALing this weekend. I went out with friends both nights and kept myself busy with family during the day.

I even hung out with a guy friend that I've known for many years. It was nice to talk to a guy about life and have a guy make me laugh and smile again! However, it is just not the same. He's not my H and it still felt awkward to just spend time with someone else.

I guess I still just don't understand how my H replaced me so easily and found comfort in this OW. I know that trying to figure it out is useless, but I still wonder, because now that I have hung out with another guy...I get this awkward feeling and don't see how he could not feel this way (maybe he does...I can't mind read here!)

I still have not responded to his email because I don't really have anything to say. I really want to say "What do you want from me? I gave you my love, trust, and marriage. You took all of that and replaced me in no time. All I'm asking for is for you to take care of your financial responsibilities until we are legally divorced. If you want to end things with me so badly, then why won't you come get your things?"

I want to say that, but I know it will do no good, but to push him further away, so I'm just not going to respond.
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/21/12 09:36 PM
Good job, I think that's the right thing to do.

Originally Posted By: hopingandpraying
I guess I still just don't understand how my H replaced me so easily and found comfort in this OW.


H didn't replace you, and you are not in any way replaceable. You are reality and H is following a fantasy. It's not a replacement, it's a trivial distraction. Sooner or later that fantasy will become reality also, and at that point H will likely flee that too.

Accuray
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/22/12 01:20 AM
Accuray, you are so right and give a great side to things!

I really hope I have a 2nd chance with my H to show him that I can forgive. I see myself forgiving him in many ways now because I'm not so angry anymore. I just get sad and miss him. I miss my best friend.

I just feel he is so far gone that he thinks there is no coming back from this. Yes, if we ever talk on the phone or the first time we do, it is going to be awkward, but then again, the first time we talked on the phone when he was deployed was awkward and the first day he returned from a 7 month deployment was awkward. Even though all those instances were different types of rebuilding the relationship, I feel in a sense it would be a lot of the same rebuilding...except TRUST would need to be restored and of course FORGIVENESS. I wish he could see that light smile

If I don't have a second chance, I do know that in time I will find that happiness with another man, because I do know I am a great person that honestly...he is a fool for leaving...he's just the only person who can't see that!
Posted By: angel61 Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/22/12 02:26 AM
May I hijack your thread HAP, I just wanted to thank Accuray for that post about being a second choice. I am glad to have read that, I am undergoing the same line of thinking and actually am starting to have self esteem issues. This helps!
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/22/12 02:58 AM
Hijack away! Accuray always knows the right thing to say, so yes thank you!!!! smile
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/22/12 04:07 PM
Angel61,

Feeling replaced, or like a second choice, is a natural place to go -- if you've been on the wrong side of infidelity it's pretty much inevitable.

As I'm sure you know, it's a poison place to go, because it just pummels your self-esteem. At the same time, self-esteem and confidence are critical for attraction, so it makes it that much more difficult to DB effectively.

The point is, however, that it's not a competition -- it can't be. When you get into a marriage with someone, there are highs and lows. Your spouse has seen you at your best, AND at your worst. There are accumulated hurts, things said in anger, resentments that have built over time -- all those things make your relationship "real" -- it's work, it not a fairy tale, and it has benefits that come from doing the work.

An affair is simply two people telling each other how wonderful they are. They have not seen each other at their worst, they have no accumulated hurts, they have no accumulated resentments. The relationship is based on the fantasy that their affair partner is "perfect" or at least perfect for them. There is a evolutionary mechanism that creates this effect, there are brain chemicals released that induce us to lower our defenses, and interfere with our ability to make rational decisions. Nature has done that in the interest of continuing the species, it reduces the friction and creates those feelings of infatuation.

My MC described it in terms of shoes -- there are the shoes that you wear every day, they're comfortable, you know their strengths and weaknesses, you know just what to expect. Then there are the "fancy" shoes you see in the shop window. You picture yourself wearing them, you picture how good they look. You don't picture or think about the painful break-in period, or the comfort you're going to sacrifice for the good looks. All you see is the good, and you start to obsess about it. Once you start obsessing, all else is forgotten, and everything else pales by comparison. When you're doing that comparison, however, you're comparing the reality of your current pair of shoes, to the fantasy of the new pair, with no recognized downsides -- there is no way for the old pair to win in that comparison, because it's not a real comparison at all.

Now if you actually buy those shoes and start wearing them around, eventually all the downsides are going to make themselves known. Initially you're going to ignore them, because you're still tied up in the fantasy, but sooner or later (like a blister) they can no longer be ignored and they will come to the top. At that point the new shoes become real too, and the old shoes may not look so bad by comparison.

So what can you do about this?

First, a lot of your angst is coming from a loss of control -- something that you relied upon has been pulled away from you. There is evidence that feelings of "love" are directly related to feeling out of control -- that's why when your spouse leaves you it's common to feel more love for them than you've felt in a long time.

One thing that will make you feel a lot better is to restore that feeling of control, and you can do that by creating small, measurable goals and then accomplishing them. That can be weight loss, getting in shape, learning a new skill, taking up an instrument, etc. You make a goal, and when you see yourself hit it, you feel more in control of your own destiny, and this offsets the control lost in the relationship.

Secondly, you need to meet some new people, and interact with friends as much as you can. When you see how much others appreciate you and respond to you in a positive way, it helps to rebuild your self esteem. Right now H's reaction to you has an unfair weighting in how you feel about yourself. If you spread that out over many people where H is just one of them, you'll get some perspective that it's not about YOU, it's about H.

Third, you need to make your H question what he thinks he knows about his "old shoes". He assumes right now that you are on the shelf waiting for him to return, and that's a great feeling of comfort and insurance. He also thinks he knows everything there is to know about you -- how you act, what you say, how you look -- he's seen it all before and thinks there's nothing left there to discover.

You will do yourself a huge favor if you change that up on him. Make him question if you're sitting on the shelf (get out and GAL, make new friends, engage in new activities, don't tell him what you're up to). If you have frequent sayings or mannerisms, change them up. Get a new haircut, change your haircolor, dress slightly differently than you did before. If you make him question what he does and doesn't know about you, he's going to start to think, and thinking is what you want.

I posted this on another thread about your WAS avoiding you as well, maybe it helps:

Originally Posted By: Accuray
H isn't avoiding you because he has disposed of and replaced you. He's avoiding you because he feels deeply ashamed of what he has done and he can't face himself.

It's like when you break up with someone in high school, you see them walking toward you at the opposite end of the hall, and you quickly turn around and head in another direction. You're not doing that to "reject" the person, you're doing it because you're ashamed about how you've made them feel.

He is AFRAID to contact you, half because of what you might say to him to shame him, and half because of how he feels about himself due to what he has done to you.

The first half you can address by acting as if, being happy, and generally approachable when he does eventually reach out. The second half you can do nothing about except to give him space and let him get over it on his own.

Getting over it requires that he have motivation to deal with himself, it's easier to keep those feelings locked up in a dark closet. As long as OW is involved, he can keep them locked up and pretend like everything is fine -- but he knows they're there, and they creep up on him when he least expects it.

When OW is gone, or when the "in love" haze starts to fade and things start to get real, that's when he's going to start doing his own thinking.

When he does contact you, it will be important to be approachable, to be happy, and not to pepper in guilt or other shaming comments. That can be HARD but works wonders if you can pull it off. It makes you approachable versus ominous.



Accuray
Posted By: jks Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/22/12 04:29 PM
Good heavens, Accuray. I think you are a Godsend.
Posted By: needgrace Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/22/12 04:29 PM
Wonderful post about feeling replaced, Accuracy, thank you. Love the shoe analogy!

And thank you, HP, for sharing how the OW impacted how you felt about yourself and your M. I recognize those feelings completely. ((( )))
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/22/12 04:50 PM
Accuright on the money again. Thanks, I saved this in my helpful words document. It's too bad that we can't "favorite" posts on here!
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/22/12 11:11 PM
AMAZING Accuray!

Thanks again!
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/23/12 05:06 PM
So, my H sent me his paper work for supposedly refinancing his car. He told me that when 'they' received the title, that obviously my name was on it, so I needed to sign a paper to have my name removed from the title. When I received his paper work in the mail, it has his original car title (we just financed this brand new car 4 months ago), and a piece of paper to sign to get my name off the title.

As far as I know, you only receive a title when your car is actually paid off and not refinanced.

Then, when I refinanced my car, the bank is sending me paper work for my H to sign that has to be notarized in order for him to be removed from the loan and the new title.

I just feel like he is trying to deceive me. I feel as if he did not refinance his car, but actually paid it of...with what money I am not sure...since he had a $20,000 loan out.

Even if he is treating me like a business partner, which is what our relationship technically is right now, because I would not even say he treats me like a friend, you would not lie to a business partner and try to deceive them.

He still has not mentioned a date to pick up his bedroom furniture or things...what is going on with this process?!?!?
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/26/12 07:39 PM
I had my chance today to act as if!!! And I think I did a WONDERFUL job!!!

I had to meet my H so he could sign car refi papers for me. I dressed cute, but not too over the top, was nice, smiley, and even joked with him.

I kept it strictly business, had him sign the papers, and then we left the bank. He held the door open and I said "thanks!" I gave him a box of his belongings and scrapbooks that I have made him throughout the years...Marine ones and his military pictures.

I then called him when we left because I had forgotten to tell him something. We talked for like 5 mins on the phone about the house and about him graduating from college last weekend. I said "Congrats!" I said "Well, now off to get your Masters." He said "not yet, at least!" I said "Well, in time." He then said "Yeah when I figure out what I want to do with my life!"

He's still lost...I can tell! He came in wreaking of smoke...apparently he's picked up smoking because his girlfriend also smokes...that part makes me sad.

He said he would be in contact with me about when he'll come to pick up his things. He gave me a day next week, but I was not available so we'll see what other day he comes up with!

I just don't know what my next step is...stay dark?!?!
Posted By: jks Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/26/12 07:48 PM
Yes, if OW is still in the picture then you are doing the best you can do. Good job!
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/28/12 05:52 PM
I don't know if this is backsliding or not...

I sent my H an email with a link to a Memorial Day video that one of his friends made and posted on Facebook about one of his buddies that lost his life 2 years ago in Afghanistan.

All I said was that I thought he might like to see the video and that his friend did a great job on it and gave him the link. I said if it didn't work that he could ask his sister to ask one of his other friends to share the link.

I don't expect to hear anything back from him. I was simply sharing it because it was in honor of his friend's death.

Now off to GAL...I've been so busy this looong weekend. I was just laying out with my neighbor...now off to lunch and shopping! I've kept myself VERY busy the past two months, but it still just doesn't feel 'right.' How does it feel so right for him?!?!
Posted By: Brit45 Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/28/12 06:31 PM
Just wanted to say that Accuray's post was fantastic. I have 4 posts book marked and they're all Accuray! LOL Just realized that.

Thank you for putting things in words that make sense to me.
Posted By: bustingout Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/28/12 09:05 PM
Hoping and praying I feel the same way about second choice with OW. Thank you for sharing. And in think you are doing a fantastic job at GAL and staying dark.

Accuracy if I may-- your insight is amazing. I feel uplifted with everything your write.

Busting
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/29/12 01:49 AM
Glad to hear that was helpful! I went through the same thing and worked long and hard trying to understand it. I really felt like "number 2", that I had been easily replaced, and that I could not compete -- and I hated it! My W was emotionally intimate with OM in a way she never was with me -- and still is not.

What I pass along came from a great MC that I found who helped me with that. At one point I realized that I was not #2, and that it would never be a fair comparison. There's no way that a 16 year husband and father of 3 can compete with the excitement and secrecy of an affair. There's nothing I could do that would "woo" my W the way an exciting stranger can, simply because she knows me too well. There cannot be danger there, and without danger there is less excitement.

Interestingly enough, W didn't view it as a comparison either, she had really compartmentalized it and viewed it as "life #1" and "life #2" -- WAS logic I guess. In any case, she shared that she realized the affair was based on fantasy, and therefore knew it wouldn't work long term. In her words she said it was like a "popsicle" and our marriage was the real meal. All the same, she was addicted to it and did what she could to keep it going.

The addictive effect is really powerful and can't be underestimated. The saddest thing to me about DB is when a LBS really figures out how to DB effectively, but despite their awesome execution, they see no results because OP is still in the picture and the addiction is raging. There is literally nothing you can do -- the goal is not to make your situation worse, because you really can't make it better until things run their course. This is frustrating and awful.

I was very lucky, because I found out about OM right AFTER he had declared "no contact" and his W had found out what was going on. To his credit, he went "cold turkey" and has not reached out since. I say I was lucky, because I did not have to stand by and watch it happen like so many do. I did, however, have to deal with her grieving her lost love, which made her very angry with me. She said horrible things to me during that period, and I remember every one of them.

Once we started to piece, it became very important to me that W was "choosing" me for who I was, and not just because I represented the path of least resistance. Unfortunately, it's impossible to separate the person from "the package" they represent, such as intact family, improved finances, etc. That's another things that the LBS has to battle through and come to terms with.

In any case, I really do appreciate all the kinds words. My "love language" is words of affirmation. W is not willing to speak it, so it really does make me feel good when I'm able to help others.

I hope everyone had a great weekend of GAL activities and was able to take some joy from the break.

Accuray
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/29/12 02:34 AM
Thanks, once again, Accuray! I do love hearing your words of advice! They make sense...I just wish it would click with the WAS quicker, or at all!

After all my GAL activities this weekend, now I'm home and feeling sad. I hate this roller coaster ride! At times, I really do want to just drop all of his things off at his new apartment and be like "here you go, it's done!"

Not that it would make me completely detach from him, but then I would in a way know I tried everything. I have been pretty much dark (except for seeing him Saturday for refi papers that was necessary) for 6 1/2 weeks and it has not done anything for our M. It has made me GAL and hang out with more people but at the end of the day, I don't feel that much better, because I still miss him so much!

Maybe dropping off all of his things would be a 180 for me...but then it's pushing him more towards divorce and having NO attachment to me.

I just don't know what to do anymore in terms of our M. I know that there really is nothing that I can do, because I only have control over me, so I do need to focus on myself and making a better me.

I really just wish I could sit down and talk to him as a friend and say "what is really going on in that head of yours? Why do you really think that there is no hope for us? Why are you so willing to throw everything away? What was so bad and what are you looking for in your next marriage/relationship that you couldn't get from us?"

The worst thing about a pending divorce is not learning from the 1st marriage. I have tried really hard to do some soul searching and digging to see how I could have been different, what I could have done...

Not that I am a perfect wife or person, but the only thing I can come up with is to be more open with his family. I was VERY open with them in the beginning of our R, but then they became too involved in our married life. I guess boundaries should have been drawn and a better 'schedule' to see each other's families???

Other than that, I really don't know what I could have done differently. I have even tried to ask friends and family what they think from an outside perspective, but they have not come up with anything. I feel as if I need part of this answer from my H...And he even wrote in a letter that he gave to his psychologist "I have a great wife...near perfect...I just don't have feelings for her anymore."

While married, I set goals for myself, achieved them, and moved onto the next one. I was happy with my life and happy with my H. Yes, this past year was difficult because he broke my trust, but I still tried to be happy and push through it. I had friends outside of our M and hobbies. I visited family when he was at work (worked nights and weekends). I did most of my schoolwork on the nights he worked, so that the days he was home we could hang out (he complained once that I did too much work when he was home.) I did all the cleaning in the house and occasionally helped him with yard work. I took care of all the bills. We went out to dinner and on vacations and hung out with friends and family. We had a good sex life.

I thought we had a balanced life and marriage. I thought what I was giving him was what every H would want. It turns out that it wasn't and that truly does scare me for the future.
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/29/12 05:41 PM
HopingAndPraying,

If love were a science then you would have hit it out of the park. Unfortunately, people are so much more complicated and sometimes there's just nothing you can do.

Of the books I've read, catering to your spouse too much can create real problems for them. Among those problems are that if you are "too good" your spouse will feel inadequate by comparison, like they can't measure up, and then they feel badly about themselves. They can also feel trapped if they feel they are your only social outlet. Finally, if you're not out there interacting with others, there is less danger and risk and it's easier for them to take you for granted. Not that you should play jealousy games, but more to establish and maintain the fact that you're an independent person with a life separate from your role in your marriage.

One book to check out would be "The Passion Trap" -- see if any of it resonates with you.

From what you've said, H has a bunch of his own issues that really don't have anything to do with you. I'm sure the deployments put a strain on your marriage. He also has a trend of "ejecting" when things are starting to get too intense or too real for him. That has nothing to do with you -- that's his issue. Finally, he violated your trust, and you both spent a difficult year recovering from that.

You're looking at yourself now saying "what did I do wrong?" and "What could I have done differently to prevent this?" Part of DB is to examine who you are, own your shortcomings, and 180 the parts of you that lead to relationship problems. This is done, however, to provide YOU with greater happiness going forward, and to demonstrate to your WAS that their impression of you may not be correct.

The point is NOT to look back over the course of your marriage and pick it apart from the perspective of what you did wrong. It very well may be the case that you did NOTHING wrong, and that there's NOTHING you could have done to prevent what happened. We're human, we make mistakes, we hurt each other. Part of marriage lies in working through that together and understanding that times are sometimes tough for both of you. You can't hold yourself to an impossibly high standard, because you were only half of the relationship.

Rather than saying "what did I do wrong?" a better question to ask is "What am I going to do right in my next relationship? Either with H or with someone else? What have I learned about myself, and about marriage in general that will give me a much better prospect for success in the future?"

Answering the first question is demoralizing. Answering the second one is empowering.

Accuray
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/31/12 12:10 AM
Thanks, Accuray!

Yes, I have looked into the book "The Passion Trap" and have begun reading it. I do see both of us in different up and down positions. I honestly do not feel that I did not have a life outside of my H because I did. I went out, joined committees at work, and went to school at night to earn my Masters.

I guess the hardest part that I'm having is...if he thought it was so bad, why he did not communicate anything with me until he dropped the bomb and then I feel as if it was too late.

A part of me thinks that if I had someone I was interested in or was interested in me that things would be a little easier (I know...validation right?!?) BUt, I know it would not be that much easier because I'm still attached to my H.

Yes, I have been dark for almost two months now...except for signing papers the other day that needed to be signed, but I am still not emotionally detached from him in the sense that I still miss him and think about him often.

ANswering your last few questions are very hard..haha! I do know that I need to be more forgiving, but I really am not sure what I would do differently. I guess not be 'so available' for my SO.

IN R, I understand that the R goes through different phases of love, my H did not. That is one thing that he complains about...that we did not have this romantic love anymore (well at least not all the time). I mean, we were together, for 8 years...it's not supposed to be sunshine and roses all the time right?!?!

I'm just getting the summer blues maybe...I have summers off, so I know I'll have more free time to GAL and I'm not sure what I am going to do with it all since not everyone has summers off. I was really looking forward to spending my first summer off with my H and doing things on his days off and even our summer vacation that we started planning!!!

Now, I'll have to plan more GAL activities that obviously do not involve him.

I did just talk to a friend in which her H hung out with my H and he mentioned that we saw each other this past Saturday and my H said he was surprised that we were cordial to each other and that we were acting so normal! I just wish that was the magic potion that would change his mind..haha!
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/31/12 02:30 AM
Originally Posted By: hopingandpraying
I guess the hardest part that I'm having is...if he thought it was so bad, why he did not communicate anything with me until he dropped the bomb and then I feel as if it was too late.


I can shed some light on that, as one who has been having WAS thoughts himself. The reason that the WAS does not tip their hand is fear. Telling you that they are unhappy with the marriage feels like stepping off a cliff from the other side, because your response could easily be "I'm not either -- bye!" and that's a scary prospect. As a result, it's much safer for the WAS to work everything out FIRST, and then drop the bomb, they cushion their landing, such that if you have the worst possible response, they're still going to be okay and have somewhere to land. That's why a few websites advocate a policy of "brutal honesty" in your marriage, because if you deal with dissatisfaction as it happens in the moment, then you'll see the trend and won't be surprised if the train is off the track.

Originally Posted By: hopingandpraying
Yes, I have been dark for almost two months now...except for signing papers the other day that needed to be signed, but I am still not emotionally detached from him in the sense that I still miss him and think about him often.


There's nothing wrong with that, and you're doing great! Honestly your ability to execute the LRT is amazing, you are among the best!

Originally Posted By: hopingandpraying
I mean, we were together, for 8 years...it's not supposed to be sunshine and roses all the time right?!?!


No, it's not, it's supposed to be work, but the work is supposed to yield a payoff where you both get your needs met. He knows that, to claim otherwise is just an excuse.

Originally Posted By: hopingandpraying
I just wish that was the magic potion that would change his mind..haha!


He noticed! You're laying on the best magic potion you can, keep it up!

Accuray
Posted By: jks Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/31/12 08:12 AM
Originally Posted By: Accuray


I can shed some light on that, as one who has been having WAS thoughts himself.


Accuray, are you thinking about leaving your W???
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 05/31/12 11:00 AM
Originally Posted By: hopingandpraying
...After all my GAL activities this weekend, now I'm home and feeling sad. I hate this roller coaster ride! At times, I really do want to just drop all of his things off at his new apartment and be like "here you go, it's done!"

Not that it would make me completely detach from him, but then I would in a way know I tried everything. I have been pretty much dark (except for seeing him Saturday for refi papers that was necessary) for 6 1/2 weeks and it has not done anything for our M. It has made me GAL and hang out with more people but at the end of the day, I don't feel that much better, because I still miss him so much!

Maybe dropping off all of his things would be a 180 for me...but then it's pushing him more towards divorce and having NO attachment to me.

I just don't know what to do anymore in terms of our M. I know that there really is nothing that I can do, because I only have control over me, so I do need to focus on myself and making a better me. ...

The worst thing about a pending divorce is not learning from the 1st marriage. I have tried really hard to do some soul searching and digging to see how I could have been different, what I could have done...

While married, I set goals for myself, achieved them, and moved onto the next one. I was happy with my life and happy with my H. Yes, this past year was difficult because he broke my trust, but I still tried to be happy and push through it. I had friends outside of our M and hobbies. ... I did all the cleaning in the house and occasionally helped him with yard work. I took care of all the bills. We went out to dinner and on vacations and hung out with friends and family. We had a good sex life.

I thought we had a balanced life and marriage. I thought what I was giving him was what every H would want. It turns out that it wasn't and that truly does scare me for the future.


Oh HP I feel the same way, I felt like I pretty much could have said all of these things that you said! (( ))

Originally Posted By: hopingandpraying
...
IN R, I understand that the R goes through different phases of love, my H did not. That is one thing that he complains about...that we did not have this romantic love anymore (well at least not all the time). I mean, we were together, for 8 years...it's not supposed to be sunshine and roses all the time right?!?!


I've had this exact same conversation frown

Let me know if you find that magic potion, I'd like to buy a bottle!

Anyway I think you are doing good, as Accuray noted. Dark is hard but he is noticing and verbalizing it to someone else. Stay strong. (( ))
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/04/12 02:08 AM
Thank you for all of your loving/supportive comments! smile

I had a great weekend GAL!!! I kept myself very busy and met up with an old high school friend. I went to the city for a fest and met a lot of new people. I really had a good time dancing and hanging out. I have the best friends a girl could ask for!!

I also met some guys...it is nice getting the attention from guys! However, I still have this mental block because it is not my H. I exchanged numbers with this guy I met and he wants to meet up this week.

I want to because I do want to make new friends and keep myself busy, but I have just a hard time with guys because I feel wrong doing it....even though it seems as if my H has completely moved on.

I just don't know what to do...I am still divided between dropping off all of his things and giving up on our M and keeping strong to DB and giving him his space to think things through and let his affair run its course?!?!

Goals for this week:
*Work out 2x (this is harder than it seems..haha)
*Cut out dessert two days
*Cut out a day of Starbucks (this is soooo hard!!!)

I hope everyone had a great weekend!
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/04/12 02:16 AM
HP I think only you will know when you're ready to stop standing for your M and move on. You are not too far in the process compared to some other folks. If it feels wrong for you to be doing things with other guys, give yourself some time. Like we were discussing on Crimson's thread - if you have to ask if you're ready, you're probably not ready.

I don't know what it is with us on here with spouses under 35, it's like the younger the are, the faster they are trying to run away. I know how hard it is to feel like H has just completely moved on.

Glad you had a great weekend. Your goals for this week look great!
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/05/12 01:10 AM
Thanks Verab! I know that I'm the only one who will know when it's truly time to move on. I know I'm not there yet, but I really I am afraid for that to come, because it will be the end of something that I thought was great and I'm not ready to give up completely on us.

It feels good at times to hang out with other guys...to know that I am still lovable. I guess you do lose a little of yourself and self-esteem through all of this, even though I know in MY heart that I am an awesome catch and only a fool would leave me.

I did make plans with one of the guys I met this weekend. We will see how that goes...no expectations, just someone to enjoy spending time with...just dinner.

I did hear that my H has taken up fishing lately...lots of time for him to do some thinking?!?! Who knows?!?! He has always said he wanted to do more fishing, but for some reason he just never did. I always encouraged him to do so, because we did have opposite schedules and he had the time to do it. I don't understand why he all of a sudden started now...weird!

As for me, I am going to continue GAL and moving forward without my H. I did join a volleyball league and it starts this Friday...I'm excited about that!! It's another chance to meet new people. If H does return, I'm sure he'll be surprised by how much I have been doing because his last email (4 weeks ago) stated "I hope you're doing as good as you can with all of this."

I actually think I'm doing better than he even thinks...maybe even better than him! Who knows though?!?!

He had stated that he may come move his things out today or tomorrow a week ago, but never confirmed it, so he's pushing it back some more???

Off to take the dog for a walk..I hope everyone has a great night!
Posted By: Brit45 Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/05/12 09:10 AM
Just read a page or two from your thread and now I will spend the afternoon reading it! I think a lot of it will resonate with me.

You are doing fantastic and I'm loving all your GAL. I'm going to look into volunteer opportunities near me!
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/05/12 02:10 PM
When he does come by to get his stuff:

-- Look good
-- Be happy
-- Be friendly
-- Do NOT engage in intimate conversation

I wouldn't mention that you heard he's been fishing, you don't want to give the impression that you've been sitting around thinking about him.

The rule for your conversation should be to conduct it like you would with a co-worker. Don't ask how he's doing. If he asks how you're doing, say "Great!" then provide a couple examples of your GAL activities and how happy they are making you, but don't inventory them all.

You want him to leave with questions, not answers. You want to give him a little to think about, but leave some gaps and some mystery.

Accuray
Posted By: needgrace Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/05/12 03:04 PM
Hi HP,

I love all your GAL activities and so many of your recent thoughts and feelings resonate with me. You are doing so so well.

I have been dark for 31 days now and it feels like forever (only contact for business matter) but I realize that it is such a short time compared to my M and my life.

I am glad you are taking such good care of you! smile
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/09/12 03:58 PM
Thanks everyone and Accuray I will remember to do those things when/if he ever comes around. I just feel like he has completely erased me from his memory or life...like we NEVER happened!!!

I did go on my first date this past week. It was nice. I had a good time, good conversation, good food. It just felt WEIRD! I was enjoying my time with this guy but in my heart I knew it was NOT my H and that's the only person I wanted it to be!

I started my vball league last night and met some GREAT people. My friend and I joined so it will be nice to hang out with my new friends every Friday! I never felt like I ever truly lost myself in my marriage and I still don't but it did feel good to do some sporting event because I have always been into sports! This is something that I will continue to do!

Even at vball, I had a guy that was already interested in me. I really don't understand how it seems as if everyone else sees how awesome I am and my H is the LAST person who wants to be around me and I have never really acted that much differently around my H. What you see is what you get...at home and at work and while out!!

Well, I'm off to plant some flowers, shop, and visit some friends! I hope everyone has a great day!

Side note: H has this weekend off and he still did not mention that he would want to pick up the rest of his belongings...these type of things still baffle my mind!
Posted By: scaredsilly Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/09/12 04:14 PM
after 8 years together, he has not erased you. my H let it slip one time that he thinks about us and our sitch "about 28 times a day".

from what i've read on here, they think about us a lot.
Posted By: jks Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/18/12 03:04 AM
You are doing so great. I know exactly how you feel about dating... it's hard to let your mind go there with someone else. It's like you spend your life trying to find that person that you want to spend the rest of your life with and then you find them and marry them. Why should you have to start trying to find someone else when you already have that person?? It's pretty silly.

I hope things are still going well for you...
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/21/12 07:15 PM
It's been awhile since I've last posted...last couple weeks of work before summer break...BUSY BUSY!

Anyways, nothing really new on my end. H still has not come to get the rest of things, but he emailed me saying that I have been deceitful (I have not at all) these past few months and that I have a scheme with this divorce and asked why I haven't filed yet.

I didn't even know how to respond to his email...At first I had this long in depth email responding to the fact that he called ME the deceitful one and said that I've acquired everything from our life together and he has NOTHING to show for it. He also stated the only thing that was messed with was my emotions a little in this whole situation.

I was in complete awe of his email to me and like I said, had this long response, but all I came up with was..I'm sorry you feel this way. If you would like the divorce, go file and please let me know when you want to pick up the rest of your belongings.

I'm almost at my breaking point. I still love him, but I don't think I can deal with him ignoring me or the life and plans we had created. I have begun dating, which goes against some of my beliefs because I am STILL married. However, I am open with the guys that I have been hanging out with. It's fun to hang out with and meet new people, but it still feels weird and different because deep down inside, I want it to be my H.

My internal timeline to decide to file on my own or not is at the end of this week, so we will see how this all works out...I'm not sure what to do... frown
Posted By: MrBond Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/21/12 08:00 PM
How about...

"I do not appreciate you referring to me as 'deceitful' and deserve respect. I'm sorry you feel this way. As this is your decision, if you would like the divorce, go ahead and file. By the way, I've placed your belongings in a box and will leave them outside for you to pick up this week. If you don't get them I'll assume that you don't want them any more and will have them donated to Goodwill."
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/21/12 11:16 PM
HopingAndPraying,

I think your response was perfect -- two sentences, to the point. Perfect! He must have really twisted himself up to cast himself in the helpless victim role. You didn't even acknowledge his ridiculous accusation, and you let him know that if he wants to D, he has to do the work. It must have taken an incredible amount of strength not to get sucked into a longer response. I applaud you for that -- well done!

Accuray
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/21/12 11:17 PM
He wants so badly for you to "act the bad guy", he's just baiting you to do so. The WAS does that to reinforce the crazy rationalizations they've constructed. When you refuse the play, you throw a HUGE wrench in the works. Keep ignoring the bait.

Accuray
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/21/12 11:36 PM
HP - I agree with Accuray that your response was spot-on.

Since you told him he could go file if he wants to, are you comfortable pushing back your own internal deadline? On one hand, when you are done with this situation is your decision. On the other hand, he was basically baiting you into filing, and you said that he should handle it - do you see a problem then if you ultimately file before he does? No right answers here, just some questions.

(( ))
Posted By: Accuray Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/22/12 05:19 PM
Verab754,

I think it's generally good to make the WAS do all the work to end the marriage. The "piece of paper" that results at the end of the D process doesn't necessarily need to be tied to HopingAndPraying's timeline. She can move forward with her life and stop trying to put her marriage back together whenever she wants, and STILL let H file and do all the work.

I would think the only time it's going to become an issue is if she wants to get married again and he still hasn't filed.

Accuray
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) - 06/22/12 05:28 PM
I hear ya, Accuray. I posed the questions about her "timeline" because she specifically had deadline to decide whether she, personally, would take the step to file for D. I'm in a similar boat (making WAH do all the work) except that my H has already filed for D and had me served.
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