Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 04/28/12 03:16 PM
Part 10
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 04/28/12 06:53 PM
I was trying to state she is my trigger
Posted By: adinva Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 04/28/12 07:19 PM
Hi Net - I didn't think you 'got' my question because you answered it "of course" and I don't think it was that simple. I looked at your statement:
Quote:
It is a huge trigger. Like when my S goes to a park with another father and his S and I'm like that should be me.


And I thought you aren't understanding what being a great father is. That sounds harsher than I mean, but when you can barely stand that your S goes somewhere with a friend instead of with you, you're at risk of putting too much pressure on him to be the Exhibit A of your awesome fatherness, which you seem to identify as an important facet of yourself.

Awesome fathers provide what their kids need in the situation that they are in. They can't create a perfect world, much as they'd like to, because the world isn't perfect. You shelter him when he needs it but you let him grow and learn too, roots and wings. You show him through your actions what it means to dig in and persevere, to handle adversity, to be strong and also capable of feeling and showing emotion.

I think you're doing a great thing by getting counseling to help you exorcise the demons of your past. Part of getting better is practicing being better, and noticing each time you slip up, and noticing the slip-ups becoming fewer and farther between. It's not a switch you can flip. But each time you find yourself slipping up, don't excuse it by pointing to your past or your W, recognize that it's behavior you want to learn to control and pick yourself up and try again.

Try counting how many times you succeeded in avoiding a trigger or being nonreactive to a trigger, notice and praise yourself, until you catch yourself succeeding more and more often.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 04/29/12 12:19 PM
Thx Ad.

I'm really been thinking about Tuesday a lot lately even though I know its not healthy. Its coming so be it. I'm going to go in an listen and my goal is minimal reactions. I will be working with counselor a few hours before to get me in this mind frame.

At the end of the session the mediator usually asks the couple how they want to proceed. Here is where I'm stuck..

I'm thinking I don't want this D but she does. So my thoughts are sticking to my guns as I've always said in the past. "This is not the path I would like to take for our family but if you feel this is the path you need to take then I respect your feelings" I don't want to decide on the spot. I want to take a few days etc..

This weekend has been very emotional for me. Just happens to be her weekend so I don't have the kids that much. Lots of alone time even with the GAL I did

Net
Posted By: adinva Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 04/29/12 12:52 PM
Hi Net, sorry that you are hurting. I hope you get out and do something distracting and fun today.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 04/29/12 01:26 PM
I'm scared about boundaries. Scared yes. Like part of me says it is better off not to be bitter and just be friends. But I'm not ready to be friends at all. I know that being friends is the best for the kids.

I'm scared about holidays, birthdays, and all the sad things that come with a splintered life.

Just last night I turned down going to his friends birthday because it was her weekend with the kids. I just feel I have to get use to this life and of course I didn't get an invite this time around from W. (expected I know)

All this stuff just frankly scares me. I do know that being civil and letting go of bitterness and anger toward her would serve us and the kids best but I'm not there.

Those are mostly the thoughts that consume me. Not so much getting back together with W or losing W but losing the family life and how it will all pan out
Posted By: Dory Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 04/29/12 04:11 PM
Hi Net,

I'm really sorry to hear you are hurting so badly, the pain in your posts is palpable. You do have the power to get yourself to a happier headspace as long as you're willing to do the work necessary to get yourself there. Once you truly get tired of feeling this way, you'll become fully motivated to turn this around.

It's never too late to become the person you've always wanted to be.

If you might recall, there was a thread some time ago, a global discussion about how members of this community felt about canned responses to newbies. Many spoke about these canned responses and felt that they are still valuable because it's wise advice that fits any and every situation, whether it's a WAW, WAH, MLC, or whatever.

Notice how Cadet always posts to newbies that they have been given the gift of time and to use that time wisely?

There's a reason for this. Every LBS finds themselves in their situation because their WAS does not like them and who they have become. When Cadet speaks of this gift of time and to use it wisely, he's saying to use the time to re-evaluate who you have become and discard any habits that are offensive. He's saying use the time to develop yourself into the person you've always wanted to be.

Thus, the WAS has truly given us the gift of time to do that. There's many in this community who have used this time to do just that and have managed to R their M because they've come back to being the likeable person their S remembers and fell in love with. There's also many in this community who have used this time to work on themselves, only to discover that their S is an unlikeable putz, and have truly made peace with the course of their lives.

Whatever the outcome, the LBS is content and happy.

Whatever the outcome, what is meant to happen, will happen. Fate, destiny, whatever you would like to call it.

Given this perspective of using time wisely, what's the motivation then for slowing down or stalling a S or D? It is just a piece of paper...

Plenty of couples remarry after divorce. Because that's what was meant to happen: Each needed the time, separate from each other to develop themselves. And once those lessons were learned, they could R their M.

You can continue to fight the process of maturing into the person you're meant to be and continue to fight learning the lessons you're destined to learn. You can continue to blame person x,y, or z for making you do a,b, or c. Or you can accept responsibility for the adult you are, accept that you need to unlearn some thinking patterns that served you well during childhood that are no longer useful to you as and adult. So your childhood sucked. Well, so did mine. And so did a lot of others. What happened to us in childhood is not our fault. But we're not children anymore, we're adults. And that means having to accept responsibility for reparenting ourselves where our own parents failed us. No it's not fair. But life is far from fair.

You can choose to be a victim or anything else you want to be.

Originally Posted By: netmaster
I do know that being civil and letting go of bitterness and anger toward her would serve us and the kids best but I'm not there.


ok.

Ever heard the saying that holding on to resentment or anger is like swallowing poison and expecting the other person to get sick?

This is your opportunity to dig deep. Peel the onion, as they say...

Make a list with two columns. How is holding on to this anger and resentment towards your W serving you? How is holding on to this anger and resentment towards your W working to your own detriment? If you take 20 minutes to do this exercise, you'll have a tangible piece of paper in your hands showing you how you're poisoning yourself.

Quote:
But I'm not ready to be friends at all. I know that being friends is the best for the kids.


It's also your best chance at R your M. Every marriage begins with a solid friendship. No happy or healthy marriage is sustainable without a solid friendship. Sure, couples can be married for 30, 40 even 50 years without that friendship, but is that what you want for yourself and your family? Is that the legacy you want to pass down to your kids? So your kids can learn to settle for a S they aren't friends with? Are you willing to sacrifice your own happiness and live in a M where you aren't friends with your S, just so that you can say that you are married? I can say with almost 100% accuracy that these are the same questions a WAS have asked themselves before they dropped the bomb. The difference is, they've given up the fight.

Rebuilding that friendship offers us the best chance at R our M.

Quote:
I'm scared about boundaries. Scared yes...I'm scared about holidays, birthdays, and all the sad things that come with a splintered life...Those are mostly the thoughts that consume me. Not so much getting back together with W or losing W but losing the family life and how it will all pan out


Net, please try to be careful about letting your anxiety get out of hand. Are you familiar with mindfulness and radical acceptance? You strike me as one who's more inclined towards eastern philosophies. Mindfulness and radical acceptance may help you in keeping your anxiety in check. You might want to google it if your interested or unfamiliar.

Let go of your desire to control and have faith that it will all work out as it should.

You only have now. Yesterday is a memory and you cannot change it. The future is just a fantasy in your head right now. So live in the present moment. Otherwise you might miss a lot of happiness that is available to you right now.
Posted By: fightingforit Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 04/29/12 05:01 PM
That was a beautiful post, thanks Dory.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 04/29/12 06:12 PM
Dory very nice post. I need to re-read a few times. What I meant by being friends was sort of hanging out as a family. Its to hard emotionally and confusing the kids.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 04/30/12 01:50 AM
Dory re-read this several times. Thanks
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 04/30/12 01:52 AM
I had a tough weekend. This was the first weekend we went back to complete boundaries. I didn't get to see my kids much since Thursday. Had anxiety about Tuesday's meeting all weekend. I did stay as busy as I could.

I know it takes time being away from the kids. But it is just blows. Not going to sugar coat it. I miss my kids. I absolutely hate this lifestyle but I'm trying to deal with it. Having a tough time. Really am.

On a postive note I get my kids tomorrow.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 04/30/12 03:15 PM
Wow law of attractions. I haven't missed putting my S on the bus in 4 1/2 months. My alarm didn't go off today. I missed putting him on the bus the day before mediation. My jaw dropped when I woke up and saw what time it was
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 04/30/12 03:17 PM
Do you know what type of things I could google for finding local divorce support groups or some helpful group to help me have some tools to start coping
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 04/30/12 10:02 PM
Found a good book called Moms House Dads House
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 04/30/12 11:10 PM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
Do you know what type of things I could google for finding local divorce support groups or some helpful group to help me have some tools to start coping


Google Divorce Care. The first item that comes up should be the link to their website and then just look for the "find a group near you" button, click that then add in your zip code and there you go. There are 13 weekly sessions and you can start at any time and circle back around as they generally run continuously. There is usually no charge except for the workbook which is about $15.
Posted By: heartbrokeinsd Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/01/12 12:15 AM
i've been to 2 divorce care meetings. kinda interesting and i wasnt the only guy. thaat was nice. the people seem to be adjusting well. i wish it was more than 2 times a month though
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/01/12 02:10 AM
Thanks!
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/01/12 01:50 PM
Big day today. Counselor at 11:30 to help me stay non reactive and listen mode.

I wish I started to read Dad's House, Mom's House when we first got separated. Oh well I didn't know of it. Good read.

Post more later.
Posted By: labug Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/01/12 01:59 PM
Good luck, and remember to listen and breathe.

A new acronym I found WAIT-Why Am I Talking? Repeat that over and over.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/01/12 03:33 PM
Thx la I like that. My verbal diahrea gets me in so much trouble
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/01/12 03:45 PM
...and keeps you chapped and emotionally dehydrated.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/01/12 09:23 PM
Well. I didn't speak much. Just stated that I would like to resolve our differences and work things out. She wants a D. She wants to start the process almost ASAP.

She also started sort of being difficult about the kids. Not liking them staying at my house during the school week. Although they have been here for 4 1/2 months. Also started stating stuff for the holidays. Like I have a small family and she doesn't want the kids sitting home alone with me on xmas, thxgiving etc..

I'm bummed out but sort of new it was coming. Nothing got escalated. Again just let her knew I respected her feelings and let her know mine.

It's hard now taking the hat off and putting kids first for negotiation but not allowing her to doormat me during mediation.

Wow this is tough to swallow
Posted By: Sad in WI Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/02/12 05:22 AM
Net,

Sorry about your day, but you are in my thoughts and prayers.

SIW
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/02/12 09:34 AM
Yeah and she already started emailing about changing the kids schedule. I'm really trying to keep this civil and not make it a custody battle. But we don't agree about the kids (3,6) and them sleeping over dads during the school week. I truly believe they are ok with it and need overnights with dad
Posted By: scaredsilly Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/02/12 10:47 AM
if my sitch gets to the divorce stage, i've already advised my H that i will not discuss anything with him, only with a third party. he can inform that third party of what he wants and i will inform them of what i want.

i will not discuss D terms with someone i am trying to be a friend to. that would not work. you might want to think about it, too?
Posted By: labug Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/02/12 12:58 PM
Mediation is for people who can agree on things.

Do you think that's the best way for you and wife?
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/02/12 02:01 PM
Sorry Net. Don't give in to any of your W's demands. Do what you feel is in the best interest of your kids.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/02/12 02:36 PM
LA nope. I can't talk to her. When I don't agree to her changes she threatens me with L. She knows I don't want to go lawyer route cause of cost and my business so she is using that against me.
Posted By: labug Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/02/12 02:40 PM
What I'm hearing(reading) is you're going to agree to something you don't want and don't think is best for your kids because she's threatening you with a L?
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/02/12 03:33 PM
Well what she believes is fair 50/50 is not what I believe.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/02/12 04:43 PM
scared I am going to suggest this to her today. I tried talking to her today on the phone about remaining friends and she got escalated with minutes. Hung up on me. Got bitter. etc..amazing how hurt she is and amazing how 2 weeks ago she was civil. She really bothered by me not accepting D. Saying that me saying this is not the path I want to take but respect her feelings on the decision annoys her. That i'm fighting d. I'm like I showed up at the meeting. I'm just voicing that this isn't what I want for us and the family. That pissed her off. Oh well. I do want to be friends with her but she doesn't
Posted By: Sad in WI Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/02/12 06:39 PM
Net,

Do you guys talk everyday? Would a few days apart maybe help?

SIW
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/02/12 06:39 PM
KD, 25, others? Im pretty sure mediation will not work. We can't even hold a civil conversation. I think its got to a point I might have to unleash the dogs like someone else said before. Mediation is 250% in the best interest of me, her, and kids if and only IF we can work stuff out. I told her to go visit some lawyers to see what was at stake. I also told her I was ready to use a L if she was unwilling to bend or continue to talk to me the way she does. Based on her up and down moods I can't see mediation working to well.
Posted By: MrBond Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/02/12 07:23 PM
Get a lawyer. She has continually shown that she can't talk to you in a civilized way. Make sure you have all the emails or correspondences that show her being irrational. You need them to back up your claim.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/02/12 11:51 PM
I am so BURNT out from all this. I really just feel like taking the summer off and dealing with the D after. I am drained. She must be drained too. I wish we could just be friend and not rush into this D. Enjoy some natural vitamin D and deal with it another day.
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/02/12 11:59 PM
Time to go dark or dimmer than you are. Detach and limit your interactions to kids issues only. Give her and yourself plenty of breathing room!
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/03/12 03:21 AM
Yes I'm going as dim as i can get. Only talking kids stuff. If I get another invite to mediator then I know where we heading. Until then kids only.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/03/12 03:25 AM
that ee.org site. I can't get anyone to get back to me on there
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/03/12 07:53 PM
Is holding on to hope considered not detaching
Posted By: Broken74 Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/03/12 08:40 PM
Personally I don't think so, but I have struggled greatly in applying the DB principles until recently.

I think of it like this, most people would hope to win the lottery, but many opt to detach from it (no expectations) by not buying tickets.

My thought process is currently that despite the odds and writing on the wall, I still hold hope for reconciling with my W, and after a long 8 months of struggle finally feel like I am actually detaching. IMHO for what it's worth I feel one can be detaching and still have hope. If I were diagnosed with terminal cancer I would still have hope.
Posted By: MrBond Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/03/12 08:42 PM
You can have hope while detached.

It's like when you have a friend who is an alcoholic. You hope that one day they'll be okay, but you aren't emotionally attached too much.

It's when you hope so much that it starts affecting you that it's not detachment.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/04/12 01:14 PM
Thx I understand. It just seems like for me I feel like there is hope. We went to mediator. She said 200% she wants a divorce. But now I feel like until she makes the next appointment or I get served papers there is hope. I know it sounds crazy. I try not to obsess over it but I always do feel like I am in limbo.

I made it back into my office today. Although noone is in so its still quiet
Posted By: AprilT Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/04/12 01:19 PM
Net thinking about you and hoping you have a good weekend! Go out and have some fun.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/04/12 02:35 PM
my W emailed me no mediator. Getting a L and going after kids and money
Posted By: AprilT Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/04/12 03:34 PM
Net....there was always that chance..Just breathe and take it a moment at a time. You will be okay. Do you have a L?
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/04/12 04:10 PM
sorry my W emailed me saying she refuses to use a mediator she obtained a lawyer and is coming after my financials etc
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/04/12 04:57 PM
Sorry to hear this, netmaster. Now is the time to get yourself a L if you haven't already so that you can best protect yourself and your kids. Perhaps the mediator gave her an indication that she wasn't going to get as much as she wants through that process?
Posted By: scaredsilly Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/04/12 05:29 PM
get a lawyer and don't communicate with her anymore about anything but the kids' welfare.
Posted By: MrBond Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/04/12 07:26 PM
What did the mediator tell you both?
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/05/12 12:08 AM
mediator thought we would not be able to mediate with 1 lawyer that we both need lawyers. plus she making threats now too
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/05/12 01:13 PM
Mr. B when talking with her its almost like talking with an 8 year old. She flips out etc.. If you saw the email I just received about how she will be coming after vaca house and digging into all biz financials. She won't let me have vaca house to use with kids etc..
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/06/12 05:07 PM
It's coming down to no discussions about D accept lawyers
Posted By: MrBond Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/06/12 06:05 PM
Then you drive the train and take care of business first. Stop having her call the shots.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 02:27 PM
Ok. I really need to learn better not to react. Has anyone on this forum really really struggled with this and then learned not to do it. If so what was the easiest path to do so. One of the things I recently reacted to was a HATE email she sent to me literally 15 minutes before kid pick up. The reaction got me no where. I knew it wouldn't but I still reacted.

Is the counselor the only option to learn triggers and becoming non reactive. That other group EE.org. They got back to me but not available until the fall.

Whether I'm divorced or reconciled I need to stop reacting. Not only to W but other real life situations. Family. Job etc..

I know if I don't react to her eventually she will stop. I struggle here badly and here is the KICKER. I do not want to struggle here. I do not want to react. I truly want to get better here. Not only for her but for me, the kids, job relationships, friend relationships etc.

The hard part is my W knows me. 11 years and she knows exactly what button to push and when. It's almost just wrong lol.
Posted By: scaredsilly Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 02:34 PM
are there any situations where you can control your reactions? if so, then you will have to translate that ability to control your emotions to other arenas. i have a niece who uses very foul language around her immediate family. she never does around me because she controls it. if she can control it around me, she is capable of controling it all the time.
are you just making excuses?
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 02:42 PM
Its mostly when me and my W start discussing something. She will get esculated and heated very quick sometimes. Name calling etc. Then she wants to stop talking completely about it. I will sometimes follow her room to room trying to keep discussion going until I finally stop and give up. I need to be able to not react or detect very quickly the conversation going south and walk away. So I'm AWARE that I do this sometimes.

The last time was the hate email before kid pickup. I went into the house with that steaming on my mind. I talked to my counselor and said he will continue to work with me on this. He also mentioned that situation was a tough one but I could have handled it better.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 02:51 PM
NM, I'd put some stuff out a while back to practice not reacting. Seems you believe the only time you react is with your W. I suspect that isn't so, but you believe it, so that's OK and I accept that.

It took me going dark and as N/C as possible to get to a place where I did not react.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 03:16 PM
KD. Refresh my memory. Do you have kids with your ex? I seem to interact with my W almost daily which drives me crazy. KD I don't think my W is the only person I react to. I'm saying the majority of it is right now. Due to the sitch.

Is there away to search the threads or do I have to dig back through all of them.

The best I could do is go dim..

She went out the other night with 3 single guys. Believe it or not I didn't say a thing to her. I kind of think it makes her look stupid.

Anyways I really feel when I react things happen so quickly before I know it I'm in a middle of a "crap" storm for lack of better words.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 03:25 PM
Yes NM, I have two mid school kids.

Don't worry about "the best I could do is dim..." A lot of what I see in your words is what you WANT to do or what you COULD do... It is time to hear what you HAVE done... what your ARE doing...

NM, I left the marital home in order to stop reacting and being a potentially negative example for my kids...

DO what you need to do... even if you have to wrap your head around what's best for the kids... if you HAD to go N/C and just drop out in order to figure your stuff out... then do that...

Figure your stuff out... because if you do not, you can be no benefit to your kids...
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 03:36 PM
Well the biggest step KD that I have done recently is I am in the process of signing a 1 year lease on a bigger nicer place for me and the kids. That is a big step for me to do and wasn't easy for me to do.

I didn'nt start reacting again until i received the email threats that my W would basically try to sink me if I didn't do things her way.

It is tough to start seeing this stuff effect my S. He is acting out. Not participating in Tball and saying stuff in front of mom about us being a part.

I did call my W Sunday night to ask her what she wanted in this D. That I finally accepted her decision and I would help it go as smoothly as possible. I said I assume you have a L lined up this week and wanted to chat before things proceeded.

Guess what she says. I haven't got a L yet. I actually said at one point "Do you truly want a D". She couldn't really answer it.
I think we both acting off emotions so much lately.

But KD back to your original point. I am down to min to N/C outside kids.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 03:50 PM
You know those times... when you're walking through the rain forest and come across a panther in quick sand, destined to die and they know it and you help them out and they bite your arm off?

Well, that's kinda like how you and your W are... the panther...

When you feel threatened, even though you are in pain already... and understand, your W feels this way, too... you lash out... more than defensively, you actually take an aggressor stance for a moment...

It took me the better part of a year to really get to a place where I do not react... Yes, the brain goes places... but the body does nothing until the brain has processed for a period of time, first...

Sometimes the best things form in a vacuum...
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 04:25 PM
KD what did you do to stop reacting. Just going Dark. At least I am AWARE I do it. I am working with counselor on this to help me. He described me and my W both as "intimidators" once I become a passive and non reactive "intimidators" hate this because you take the air out of their balloon. Easier said then done as you describe taking you 1 year to do this.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 04:50 PM
Yes... time and patience and practice... and yes, first one needs to be aware of it...

I needed to "decompress" from the drama and my anxiety that happened during the drama. First, removed myself... then, thought a lot... cried alot... stomped around alot... and as each volley from my W came at me that I perceived as negative... my physical and technological distance allowed for a forced time out... I had a chance to mull things over... the "48 hour rule" of shutting one's mouth for 48 hours before responding...

and as time went by, these "negative volleys" began to stop stinging... and then... they were just something for consideration that may or may not require a logical response...

Might be easier said than done, yes... but one still must do...
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 05:00 PM
I need to really try to adhere to that 48 hour rule. I know I am failing there.
Posted By: scaredsilly Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 05:20 PM
don't "try"..."do".
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 05:51 PM
she cracks me up. just asked me to pick S up cuz she running late from shopping with mother. 3 days ago I get hate email about D. Amazing how ballsy they are. its her day on top of it. I had to say no unless she absolutely couldn't get back in time.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 06:22 PM
Tell me this. Even after all the hate email and threats. HOW COME I STILL FEEL GUILTY SAYING NO TO HER????? Is that even a normal feeling?
Posted By: AprilT Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 06:53 PM
I can answer that one.....its because you still love her. Or rather the person you thought she was, or could have been, or might have been before the infection know as "looney tooney" took over her body.


Normal?? Is any of this normal on here???
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 10:08 PM
Wow this is the biggest emotional roller coaster I have ever ridden on. I sat in a mediators office with my W a week ago. The mediator would not take our case because of my business situation and the fact that I wasn't ready for D and she was.

Wife sends me a very detailed Hate email on how she will sink me. Asking me to xfer cash into her acct for L retainer.

Sunday night I call her after kids are in bed and talk with her. Assuming she has L all lined up for this week. Told her I wanted to be amicable. I finally accept the D and she doesn't love me etc.

She then states I never obtained a L. As of today no L from her or no papers filed.

She was not happy with the discussion of the D and vaca house that happened in front of the kids. I actually 200% agree with her on this. This is a huge 180 area for me. I should have walked away when she was proding me with an electric caddle prod that day.

There is not worse feeling knowing you need to fix an area of yourself and struggling with it. Plus trying to fix controlling and reacting behaviors under the highest stressful time of my life.

Net Hamster rolls on and on and on.

Starting to re-read DB..

It was also tough to read that it to KD 1 year to stop reacting and I am only 4 1/2 months into a separation and feel my heart is going to explode at times
Posted By: Broken74 Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 10:23 PM
Net,

I feel your pain man, I was there, and I remember things didn't seem like they would ever get better, especially the first few months. I am only 3.5 months further down the road than you, but trust me that things will get better with time my friend. I am not where KD described he got to at the year mark, but I am making my way there slowly but surely. Most important thing being that if it ends in D or not, we will all be just fine.

Keep your chin up!
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/08/12 10:33 PM
I do recommend a book Mom's House Dad's House. Especially if separated even if not D'd yet. Thanks Broken.

My W is all over the place emotionally. That is better then saying hormonal I suppose. She was like this b4 separation but it makes it tougher.

I'm moving on a little. I had a bad few hours today. Turning down helping her still guilts me. Even after 2 days ago she basically threatened to destroy me.

I do find reading distracts me for a bit. But what is funny is I sort of have a little ADD and have trouble reading
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/09/12 01:53 PM
Can I get someone's opinion seriously. I really think my wife has PMMD and there is no possible way for me to ever address it. The last 2 weeks where I was threatened with d, dragged into a mediator office and asked to xfer funds into her acct to pay for retainer for a L. That was my life for the last 2 weeks. She literally gets her you know what (cycle) on Monday and she talking to me like we are friends and like none of this ever happened. L talks vanish. This has been my life for almost 3 years. I so want the M to work but I just can't see how with this underlying issue. I can work on my stuff until I'm PURPLE. Has anyone experienced such craziness. Trying NOT to react to this behavior is like trying to quit smoking and working at a bar full of smokers.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/09/12 04:18 PM
NM, do you really not see the pattern here?

What ever her reasons for "cycling"... there is nothing... nothing... nothing... nothing... that you can do to make it stop...

OMG NM, let it go! When she is ready, she will take care of it... IF SHE thinks it's a problem for her...

4 months now we've been hearing about this... that's horrible... we know... there's nothing you can do about it...

But you can choose how YOU deal with it.

It took me a year to get to where I am now... but I had to let go of that stuff... my W's behaviours that had way too much negative effect on me...

It took me choosing to accept that is simply who she was... and deciding whether I would accept her back into my life WITH those behaviours... but at the very least, that I would choose to no longer trigger from those behaviours... at least to the extent that I used to...

You are welcome to keep focusing on that and letting it consume you... but doing so will not help the M... nor will it help you...
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/09/12 05:51 PM
The times when your WAW is the nicest to you are the times when you should be pulling back even further. Stop being a yo yo that is simply being walked like a dog until your WAW decides to yank on the string to reel you in.

Detach my friend!
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/09/12 06:37 PM
KD I know your points. I'm not detached you see. You also ended your marriage and ready to date. I'm ready to end this marriage also. Unfortunately for me 2 kids keep me hanging on by a thread.

2thepoint thx for the tip. I'll try it. Seems when I told her that I agree to the D and would make it as smooth and as quick as possible her attitude changed a little. Maybe not.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/09/12 11:49 PM
KD thx for posting that earlier today. It really hit home. It is those mood swings that trigger my reactions. It is amazing when she is nice to me how my anxiety goes way side. Almost pathetic like behavior.

2thepoint. I wish I could detach my friend. I wish there was a switch. I feel the only way I'll ever detach is when she is gone. Sad and scary. I'm trying to wake up everyday and say who cares. I'm failing. I'm honest. I'm aware.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 12:19 AM
I wish i could wake up tomorrow and say I don't care what is going to happen. If I get a D I get a D. If she finds OM I don't care. If this and if that. I try staying busy. I do Gal. Even missing mothers day hurts. I F(*(*(*(* hate this. I really do. Cuz her actions make me feel a certain way and I hate that she is controlling me and doesn't even know it
Posted By: adinva Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 12:21 AM
Net, you're basically saying that you can work on not reacting only if she stops triggering you. That is unfortunately not how it works. Assume that she will provide triggers. Learn to stop reacting.

You keep saying that you're trying, but it's hard, and it takes time, and it's not your fault because it's because of her PMMD.

Here's how you do it: practice. Start small. When you notice that you did not react immediately to something, really stop and notice it. Praise yourself, bring it to your therapist, reward yourself. When you notice that you did react but were able to stop, do the same. Celebrate small victories. Continue practicing. How you change your behavior is so simple and yet so difficult: you just DO it. You stop talking, wishing, and explaining. You Do it, and do it some more.
Posted By: scaredsilly Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 12:29 AM
^^^great advice, adinva!
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 12:35 AM
Thx adniva. Sometimes I think meds to calm anxiety would be far easier.

Even when I prep myself not to react and even when I know its the week that she will be miserable I still failed at not reacting. I got so down on myself after that.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 02:08 AM
Sorry you are in so much pain. As for the EE org site, pick up a phone and call them. Or make sure you are clearly stating what you want and giving them an address for a brochure or info. They are very responsive.

Originally Posted By: netmaster
I wish i could wake up tomorrow and say I don't care what is going to happen. If I get a D I get a D. If she finds OM I don't care. If this and if that. I try staying busy. I do Gal.

Would like to hear more about this^^. How are you GAL? Meeting any new people? I ask this not b/c I think you should date (you are not ready to even if the m is over and it's not relevant atm)

But b/c meeting new peeps who do not know your sitch can help take YOUR MIND OFF of it and that's a big part of detaching. I recall once rehearsing for some community theater role in which I had a demanding lead. We were on stage rehearsing for 2 hours and when it was over It hit me that for 2 HOURS I had not thought or obsessed about h or our marriage the whole time. I even had fun...got good feedback and had some emotional breakthroughs in a "safe appropriate" place.

GAL is powerful when you throw yourself into it. That's why we hammer it so much here.



Even missing mothers day hurts. I F(*(*(*(* hate this. I really do. Cuz her actions make me feel a certain way and I hate that she is controlling me and doesn't even know it





read that ^^^ again and look in the mirror. YOU ARE STILL BLAMING HER FOR YOUR ACTIONS!!

Gee, I guess as long as SHE is in charge of how YOU BEHAVE

HOW YOU SPEAK

AND HOW YOU WALK OR LOOK OR FEEL...then I guess you are powerless.

IS that what you want to be, powerless?

That way you can keep blaming her. You won't have to apologize or change b/c hey, '

changing YOU means YOU DOING THE WORK....

Hey, I'm NOT saying she's an easy going or kind acting w

(though I have not seen the "hate mails" you refer to or any actual quotes, just your reaction to them and your perception....)

but assuming they are hate filled diatribes from her ---okay so what? If it's nutty or unjustified and her data is not real, then it's NOT REAL and so what if she calls you a purple lesbian? Will you "react" to that too?

Why are you giving her all your power?


Oh, b/c you do NOT want to be accountable? You do NOT want to have to react like an adult Man?

Come on Net, take your power back.

NO ONE MAKES YOU DO OR SAY ANYTHING...NO ONE...


when you get THAT part of this equation, you'll begin to change your life b/c you'll be the owner of it.

If your life were a book, who do you think ought to be writing the book?

Who should author the book of YOUR LIFE?? Should it be Her? How about your kids? OR your neighbors OR your parents?

Who should be the person who makes your life go in a specific direction?

Isn't it you? Okay then...start re-writing how THIS chapter goes and think about how you want the rest of this to turn out, to the extent that you are in charge of the main character-you and ONLY YOU....

Specifically you must do the following and I Do NOT see a choice.

You retain a L. THat does not mean you file, it means you get information so you can stop reacting to her threats like a terrified child.

You get information and learn your rights.

It's very empowering to know what she can and cannot do and from the sounds of it,

(assuming you are running your business competently/honestly)

she has a lot LESS power than she believes. In part - you have enabled her to believe she has all the power b/c

you give it to her emotionally by reacting to every single trigger she sends

(and then some she did not send)

and you cave in to her every legal threat....

Hey, to be clear, I am NOT telling you to corner her into filing to "hold her to her word"

as in you getting mad that she did not follow thru and hire a L...(B/C that's a good thing for you!!)

but YOU GET some L info and you do NOT tell her.


Unless and until you file, there's no need for you to tell her.

Why would you? To escalate? TO punish? It'll backfire. The real justice IF there is any, won't come from your mouth. IT'll come in life or court. Don't spout off about hiring a L...

if she continues to do so, you can say "I saw a L too and he/she has a different opinion so I guess they'll work it out in court"

and then you'll have NOTHING to discuss til that time comes.

But try hard to
Remember that clever "WAIT" Trick you were given...ask yourself

"Why Am I Talking?" It IS a mantra that ought to become one of yours today.

If you are not talking about your kids, what's there to say?

If she eggs you on,
Tell her you'll call her back when you get a chance but 'now is not a good time to talk" and then HANG UP THE PHONE and STFU.

No more "losing it" from you. If she is venting and wailing out loud BY HERSELF OR TO HERSELF...(b/c you hung up)

even she will wear herself out...even she will realize it's pretty odd...unhealthy.

by the way, as a L myself I have often recommended to clients that they seek mediation. I'm not a div lawyer but mediation is for lots of civil litigation.

Sometimes it comes AFTER the main issues (or most contentious) have been decided or litigated.

There are usually SOME things that can be mediated...same for divorce.

...Sure, she may insist on fighting about every single thing but in the end, that shows. And courts don't like it.


Knowledge is power. Go get some and control yourself. Stop blaming anyone for what YOU SAY or DO and don't teach your kids to blame others either. Also model this adult behavior for your w b/c she's never seen it apparently,

and I guess you have not either. I hope you'll follow thru with EE or some sort of good thorough anger management course.

YOU must change you and you are all you can change.

Good luck and remember this is a marathon, not a sprint. What she says today does not mean a thing tomorrow. You've heard us tell you 100 times

"believe none of what they say and only half of what they do."

She has not seen a L or filed. She just wants money and vents on you. Stop letting her. Get the info you need to navigate thru this.

Then regroup.


Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 02:50 AM
25 did you just tell me to date another W? Maybe I misread that.

25 yes I feel powerless. My counselor has been trying to help me get my power back.

25 thanks for advice on L. I have 2 lawyers waiting in the high grass. I met with the top 5 lawyers in the area and told them who my W was so she couldn't use any of them. I told them my situation and I did learn that she won't get as much as she thinks she will be getting. I do have some exposure on the business side but that is only because my income dropped by 1/2 due to some regulations and economy down turns.

25 we did meet with a mediator. She was ready to start D right there but he would not take our case. Because a. My business. B. He felt I wasn't ready for D and she was. That is when the L threats came and I never heard from her again after that on L. Not to bring up cycle but she got it and everything calmed the F down. the problem is its almost 2 weeks when dealing with PMMD. Not just a few days. Sometimes 3 weeks of anger. Again as KD states out of my control but picture 3 out 4 weeks every month of hate, anger, venom. Not fun trust me.

So right now she is being nice again. Won't last more then a week. But as someone else suggested I should pull back when she is being nice. So this weekend is her weekend with kids. I am going to stay busy with friends.

As far as GAL goes I play a lot of texas holdem. I'm actually ranked #1 in my state for May. I meet tons of friends there and actually a few guys dealing with the same stuff. I golf A TON now. dropped my handicap to a 12 for the first time ever. This was the first week I've gone into the office every day.

I also have a beautiful condo lined up for June/July time that requires a year lease.

I did call EE. They have a program in the fall and I'm on the list.

As far as anger management goes my counselor said to be careful with those because most programs are court ordered for men who beat their wives. But would like a recommendation for this because I would take an anger course.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 03:07 AM
Read your post above, NM... read it over and over...

Read it like it isn't you...

what do you see?
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 03:19 AM
KD if I saw the things you saw in my posts that were stupid or didn't make sense I wouldn't write them right.

What the lawyer thing. Damn straight Im going to protect myself and not have her hire some astronomical costing lawyer.

The PMMD thing. Whatever it's a fact. Yes out of my control but I tell you this we will never R without it being addressed some how. Either in counseling when we are in a better position or somewhere.

I don't know what you see KD. Just tell me how you read my posts in a non cryptic way.

I'm burnt out like a piece of toast stuck in a toaster.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 03:33 AM
ok...

do you really think 25 told you to date?

do you really think that your counsellor is going to give you your power back?

you contacted the top 5 lawyers in your area so that they could not represent your W? Are you f'n serious?

wow...
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 03:37 AM
BTW: That lawyer thing... that's not about your wife hiring a costly lawyer. That's her choice, not yours...

No... that's about controlling her...

I don't think you are burnt out, yet... but I hope it happens soon... with the least possible damage...

Find your bottom... so that you can finally rise above all this stuff that is holding you back...
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 09:34 AM
KD I was confused on interpreting this:

Would like to hear more about this^^. How are you GAL? Meeting any new people? I ask this not b/c I think you should date (you are not ready to even if the m is over and it's not relevant atm)

The lawyer thing isn't about controlling her. She can get a lawyer. Its about protecting my azz. I have a business and a W willing to try to take my kids from me period. I will protect that the best I can and if push comes to shove I want the best lawyers on my side in this area. Period. So she gets the #6 lawyer.

No the counselor isn't going to give me my power back. He has identified the same thing 25 told me. I have LOST my power. I need to take it back. How I ask him. He said with little things. If she asks you to do something non critical to kids. Say no. no guilt. If she goes out with a bunch of single guys (that is her new thing) don't care. Don't say a thing. If she threatens you with D don't react. He told me to sign the lease and move on. Believe me KD do you really think I don't want MY POWER back. Do you really think I want to be a bag of luggage on some days? The majority of the day I am not obsessing on the sitch. I'm talking its just a few hours a day it happens. Mostly triggered by a neighbor or a friend telling me something she did or asking how things are etc..I wish I could go away for a month
Posted By: scaredsilly Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 09:45 AM
i think one of your statements previously is absolutely correct; you may need to get on an anti-anxiety prescription to help you to CALM DOWN.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 02:13 PM
NM, my GAL consisted of things that are specifically important to me. In my case, I spent a lot of time amongst nature. It is soothing and helps me centre myself. I also have been going out more frequently just to people watch. Again, it's what I do.

NM, part of the problem for my M was that I burried myself in work. The excuse was to provide more money for the household, the underlying reality is it helped me hide from my W.

I have been an independent business owner all my life, NM. Literally... beginning on a family farm and then developing my business savvy from there... While I don't mind working for someone else, I thrive "spiritually" by working for myself. That... is about control... me controlling me and my own destiny... not someone telling me what to do, how to do it, where to go and how to get there... I spent two years tethered to a phone at one point in my life and I think I just about lost it...

So I understand that you don't feel that you are trying to control your W... but you talk about your business and how you will protect it at all cost from your W... that is about control... you are talking about your W as "the enemy"... something that we do in the business world... as business owners... when we feel that a competing company is a threat... or we want to advance our business... AT THE EXPENSE of another...

I have a suspicion that you play a game of win/loose. Have you ever conducted yourself or your business in a win/win case?

If I were to put a metaphor on it, it appears that you are seeing your W as a business competitor... at what point was your W ever going to be a business partner? Your conversation really suggests to me that you see your W as a subordinate, unworthy of the spoils of your business... that... is controlling mentality... no matter if you hide it behind the passive/aggressive language of "protecting yourself and your business".

So at first, you suggested that you talked to the highest PRICE lawyers... now you are suggesting that those lawyers are the "best" lawyers... are you suggesting that the highest priced lawyers are the BEST lawyers...?

And in the end, it sounds to me like you are either controlling your W by lawyers or by perceived power... it doesn't matter what I think and what you think... but understand that if it seems like that to me... it could just as easily appear to your W that you try to control her... why would she want to be with a controller?

We don't get our power back by pummelling someone into the ground... and into submission...

We get our power back by being ourselves...

A counselor can guide you... as we can offer support and suggestions in your DBing... but... it doesn't matter what your counsellor or we say...

You...

need to DO...

It is up to you... it only ever was... and always be...

What power you seek? Either take that power OVER others that you appear to want...

or take the power to support and contribute to your family...

I think that we have to rethink this whole power thing... because the metaphor being used is that your W has "taken" your power...

I think that isn't true... I don't think that your W has taken anything from you... I think you put a veil on that power and are allowing your W to appear to be the enemy as though she stole something from you, putting you in a justifiable position to do what ever it takes to beat that power out of her and "take it back from her"...

Stop blaming your W for taking something she didn't... and blaming her for something that she hasn't even done...
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 02:35 PM
Just some extra thoughts here...

Do you love your business more than your love your W?

Do you love money more than you love your W?

Would you ever have considered giving it all up... the business... in order to seek what which you really love?

Are you using your business resources... or are you prepared to... to WIN against your W? Would you consider that an "unfair" advantage? Do you go into a knife fight with a gun?

When your business started to turn "due to the economy and regulations", did you take your stress of that out on your W?

Have you ever "lost it all" in business?

NM, I have learned that my power comes not from success... but from failure... I've learned that if I loose it all, I can get back up, turn around, and make more...

I am fine with you using me as a benchmark for yourself... I appreciate it... but know this... I lost it all... in order to get to where I am now... and I am OK with that... and I stopped being afraid, because I remembered that I will come back... I will make more money...

But I couldn't be the husband or father that I wanted to be, without remembering that it isn't an "either / or" situation... it's not a win / loose game...

Would you die for your W?
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 02:56 PM
Kd I would die for my wife.

I also am looking to go back to day job as we speak. I always told her I thought if we both went back to work would be nice healthy separation.

I have the same reasoning of being a business owner. I don't own a business kd for wealth . I own a business for time freedom so I can have the schedule that allows me to do the things with my family I always wanted.

Kd there is a fine line between controlling person and setting boundaries. They blur.

I started doing research to truly see how controlling I was . Like the traits were: won't let W wear her hair a certain way, wear a bikini , go out with friends, hang with relatives, monitor purchases, verbal abuse calling spouse ugly, fat, skinny, nobody.

Every person is in controlling to a degree Kd. Christ my W is controlling .

Google controlling behaviors
Posted By: labug Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 03:00 PM
controlling person and setting boundaries. They blur.

You should read more about boundaries, this statement indicates, you have a misunderstanding about what the term means.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 03:23 PM
what bug said ^^^^

Controlling behaviours are also manipulation... you manipulated the your W's legal right by ensuring she could not get the "high priced" or "best" lawyers...

As suggested by bug... that's controlling, not boundaries...

Are we all controlling? Sure... we all want to control our own life and destiny...

But putting a rope around a new patch of grass isn't a boundary... it's controlling...

A boundary is something like: If you shoot at me with a gun, I will not be around you any more. It's not trying to stop them from having or using a gun, which is an attempt to control another... It is removing oneself from a real or perceived threat... that is the boundaries we talk about, here...
Posted By: Dory Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 03:29 PM
Hey Net,

I was just catching up on your sitch.

Originally Posted By: netmaster
Ok. I really need to learn better not to react. Has anyone on this forum really really struggled with this and then learned not to do it. If so what was the easiest path to do so.


Yes. CBT was a godsend. It's simple, but not easy. I don't think easy exists when it comes to self-growth.

I'd mentioned it to you before that you'd probably find it useful, but you said CBT wasn't for you...Do you mind saying why?

I'm just curious.

Because,

When it's broken down to it's simplest form, the ONLY thing that has any effect on our feelings are our thoughts.

When it's a hot sunny day and person X thinks, "Crap! I'm going to get a sunburn!"

vs.

A hot sunny day and person Y thinks, "What a great day to take the kids to the beach!"

Exact same scenario, yet opposing feelings. The feelings of each individual is not caused by the sun (or any outside stimulus) but rather, the feelings are generated by the thoughts of each individual.

It's not your W's hatemail (or whatever behaviour) that makes it difficult for you to detach and not react. It's your thoughts about it that drive your feelings. When our feelings become uncomfortable it's human nature to unconsciously react (impulsively) rather than consciously respond.

And this is where CBT became so useful for me. I learned to starve what was feeding the vicious cycle. I learned to define some self destructive thought processes and learned to replace them with more accurate and healthier thoughts, allowing me the ability to have absolute control over how I feel.

Simple, but not easy.

I'm not saying that things don't occasionally get away from me. Still, it happens. But it happens very infrequently compared to before CBT. And when I notice that my feelings are becoming uncomfortable, I take a break & use mindfulness techniques to bring myself back to the here and now and regain conscious control over my thoughts and resulting feelings.

Net, I see so much of my former self in you. You've been conditioned to react to others because to fail to do so meant possible harm. It served you well at one point in time but is now acting as an obstacle. In my experience, CBT has proven most effective in helping me overcome a TON of these obstacles and as a result, I'm a much calmer, happier and grounded person than I ever used to be.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 03:34 PM
This was 1 of the articles I found on topic ;:

http://m.wikihow.com/Recognize-a-Controlling-Person
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 03:38 PM
So... you would rather be right, then married, NM?

Look up p/a behaviours...

have some?

Did you... or did you not... say that you talked to the lawyers so that your W could not use them?
Posted By: Dory Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 03:49 PM
Net, I'm not sure what you're implying.

Are you saying that you think your wife is controlling because she demonstrates these behaviours,

Or are you saying that you think you are not controlling because you don't demonstrate these behaviours?
Posted By: AprilT Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 03:52 PM
You can have power or love, but not both. Choose wisely....
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 04:16 PM
I'm saying I have controlling tendencies and so does my wife and basically every person who walks the planet but I never not let my wife be herself. Did it bother me she had like 7 different guys txting her . Yes what guy wouldn't . That to me is a respect and boundary issue.

Kd yes I consulted with one particular lawyer who I knew had a Track record for kids and moms house . I want the kids in my life 50% of the time . You call it controlling I call it protecting my right to my kids. My state dies not favor dads and kids period.

I will look up p/a behaviors now
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 04:18 PM
What does pa stand for
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 04:36 PM
pa stands for passive/aggressive

NM, I appreciate if you tell me that you generally are not a controlling person. Neither am I. If you look at resources regarding this, most of us can find where we do not conform to the clinical diagnostics of the personality disorder.

What I am suggesting is that as we go through these traumas, there is a tendency (we do see it often here) that people go into both controlling and p/a behaviours... until we get THROUGH that and start being our genuine self, again.

One action does not make you controlling. Just understand and recognize when you are. I am sure you would rather take a different tack. And I understand your fear that you may loose your kids... I feared that, as well...

So we do what we do out of fear... rather than out of logical reasoning and compassion and love...

The law is the law and yes, there is probably an advantage to having a lawyer who has a good track record to represent you in this case. But that's not to say that her having L#6 will somehow prevent her from "winning" over you, in court...

You are worried about loosing... just consider for a moment, that you have already lost, my friend...

Because you have...

No matter what, there's no do overs... your children... your W... you... and everyone who is connected with you all, have already lost...

So now is the time to show your power...

Be the person that makes sure that everyone wins... that you can create an environment of LEAST damage...

THAT is the power that you need to own... and it is already in you...
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/10/12 04:54 PM
Not that I don't want CBT. My counselor is working on child issues or the core issues of what causes my anxiety, paranoia, etc.

Maybe I will consider CBT to get those thoughts out of my head. 90% of the time what I am actually thinking is wrong.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/11/12 01:04 PM
Kd did some research on PA and I definitely have some of those character flaws. Also seems to tie into my childhood upbringing
Posted By: Dory Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/11/12 02:13 PM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
90% of the time what I am actually thinking is wrong.


Oh my goodness! Without being able to hear any tone or infliction in your voice, I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry about this statement.

Net, please google cognitive distortions and see which ones you may identify with. I suspect it will give you a clearer understanding of how certain thought patterns have become an obstacle for you.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/11/12 02:25 PM
Dory what do you mean laugh or cry? I'm aware that most of my thoughts from anxiety and my own insecurities are wrong.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/11/12 02:30 PM

http://psychcentral.com/lib/2009/15-common-cognitive-distortions/

This is me below >>>>>

14. Always Being Right.

We are continually on trial to prove that our opinions and actions are correct. Being wrong is unthinkable and we will go to any length to demonstrate our rightness. For example, “I don’t care how badly arguing with me makes you feel, I’m going to win this argument no matter what because I’m right.” Being right often is more important than the feelings of others around a person who engages in this cognitive distortion, even loved ones.
Posted By: Dory Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/11/12 02:40 PM
Because the statement itself is loaded with cognitive distortion. I wasn't sure if you were serious or being witty about it...

You said 90% of the time you're wrong. Let me ask you, is that TRUTHFULLY accurate? Or could you be overgeneralizing, catastrophizing, adding a negative filter, etc.?
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/11/12 03:00 PM
No actually 90% of the time I get anxious and think my W is doing this and/or that and I come to discover it ends up being the exact opposite.

For example. She had penciled a name on the calendar and I thought it was appt for L. It ended up being a meet up with a friend.

I need to address this stuff.

I'm also trying to not be so hard on myself on some of this stuff. I've come to realize that my sitch in itself is extremely stressful. I miss my kids extremely. I miss family life etc.

Thx Dory
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/11/12 03:57 PM
Part 11:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2244513&#Post2244513
Posted By: Dory Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/11/12 04:03 PM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
No actually 90% of the time I get anxious and think my W is doing this and/or that and I come to discover it ends up being the exact opposite.

For example. She had penciled a name on the calendar and I thought it was appt for L. It ended up being a meet up with a friend.

I need to address this stuff.

I'm also trying to not be so hard on myself on some of this stuff. I've come to realize that my sitch in itself is extremely stressful. I miss my kids extremely. I miss family life etc.

Thx Dory


Net, I believe you. I can only imagine the stress you're under. I was fortunate enough to do CBT a long time ago so lucky for me, I'm not nearly as wound up like I could be.

Practicing self compassion can go a long way. When you know better, you do better, right? It's our mistakes that make us human. I struggle with it myself quite a bit. I can't count the number of times I've said something in therapy & my T has said, "And what would you say to a friend who just said that?" It's a good question to ask yourself when falling into the trap of beating yourself up over something.

Anxiety is a good indicator of when's a good time to challenge your thinking. When it happens, slow down and ask yourself if there are any other possible explainations.

Such as seeing your wife's calendar. I'll use this as an example since you brought it up. You assumed and jumped to the conclusion that it was a L's appt, which fueled your anxiety. And you held on to that anxiety for quite a while, I remember it wink. And you felt unnecessarily terrible as a result.

It's much simpler and easier on your emotional state of wellbeing to have recognized the anxiety you were feeling and questioned where it was coming from: "What do I know about this appointment on her calendar?" And the reality being, you knew nothing about it or who this person is. So, it's reasonable to to tell yourself, "I don't have enough information to draw any conclusions."

Telling yourself that you don't have enough information to go on leaves you in a far better state of mind than jumping to conclusions/making assumptions and perpetuating anxiety.

It's perfectly ok to say I don't know. It's a lot better on the psyche to remain in blissful ignorance than to draw your own conclusions on incomplete information. grin
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/11/12 04:23 PM
scared working with counselor on monday about triggers
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Recently Seperated Part 10 - 05/12/12 12:13 AM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
Kd did some research on PA and I definitely have some of those character flaws. Also seems to tie into my childhood upbringing


while it's crucial for all of us to understand why we do what we do, I find it gets very old to keep looking at childhood issues that "make us" how we are today.

In my 20s I attended some Adult Children of Alcholics meetings a few times. I saw someone I knew there. 5 years later he told me about his other ACOA groups and asked if I wanted to attend.

Why would I need to attend those meetings for 6 years of my adult life? I learned what I learned and I finally let go of the past.

I believe He liked being a victim or was so used to it that he did not change HIMSELF...

Every single Christmas he re-told the story of how his drunken father had ruined their holidays as a kid. He was in his 3rd marriage....still nursing his wound.

He was continuously Asking "Why did this happen to ME as a kid and why am I this way?"

INSTEAD Of asking

"how can I be a better man NOW?"
OR celebrating the new family life he had.

MANY mc's and ICs' spend way too much time on our past. If we have not gained any insights into why we are how we are, by the time we're 30, we have been in mental caves...

My point isn't in putting all that therapy down--not at all. Been there, done that. IT has value!

But at some point you jusst have to suck it up and CHANGE YOUR BEHAVIOR and until you choose to do that

a whole lot of time can be spent on "WHY??? WHY???"

and the thing is, the answers do not matter if you don't react in a new way.


This site presents you with "Solution based therapy" and that approach is simple but radically different than many...

INstead of piecing toether your history and re-hashing all the things that happened to you or that you think happened to you....which takes SO LONG before you even get to improving the r....

DBIng...solution based approach-& "doing what works", etc

we are all about doing what helps the r today , NOW

and doing less or none of what hurts it....

THAT'S it in a nutshell.


So while you talk to your c about why this and that - make sure you are not dallying too long in victimland where you get to excuse choices made as an adult

b/c of things that happened to you or that you think did...long ago.

Plus,

For example


let's say your w was sexually abused as a kid. That's a terribly traumatic event. It would effect nearly any woman. So, Does it belong in the marriage?

Is it a "good" reason for her to withhold sex or to fake enjoyment or to fear it? Of course not.

It's a bad thing that happened to her in the past and TODAY it's

HER problem to work on, mostly in private therapy

and maybe you can sometimes attend something IF SHE ASKS

so you'd know how you can best support HER PRIVATE work...

same goes for you.

NONE of the past issues from your childhood excuse your losing your temper or the nastiness of the comments or the quick escalations of your temper...NONE...

Own them and that means no more blaming others. And Fix them. Stop asking "why" so often and just choose differently.

That's what CBT is about and same for DBing and that's what the workshop is going to do and get it to sink in.

I think At some level the cause of the poor reaction or behavior can be irrelevant --- b/c after all, we have child soldiers from the Sudan who grow up to live in our country.

They don't get to kill or main b/c of "their past childhood abuse" although their abuse experiences were real and horrible.

They must adapt their behavior. AND So do you.


The more time you spend on asking "Why?",

I fear,

the longer it'll be before any change in you really takes hold.

Good luck
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