Hi to all! I want to post my sitch and get some advice. My H is in a MLC I believe. His only sister died in '07 leaving his widowed mother and her D6. My MIL and niece then lived with us six months. My MIL detests me and combined with the grief it didn't work out well. My H had to ask her to leave. In '08 H woke up one day and said (to himself) "I don't want to do this any more (live in the country, homeschool, be married, go to church, etc.). He didn't tell ME but over the next years H unraveled little by little. In '11 he started doing activities on his own which he hadn't done previously--staying out in the evening later occasionally. Then came the longer hair, motorcycle, red convertible sports car, younger clothes, serious bodybuilding, etc. He is 44 years old.
Last fall, he seemed to become more and more emotionally distant. By Feb'12 we both agreed on a three-month trial separation starting in March. I agreed to it as I knew he needed the space, but had no idea how hard it would be. I'm a SAHM, homeschool our S18 and S12. We have no debt -- everything including house is paid off.
Its been one month he's been in the furnished apartment. We see each other twice a week, ML regularly --it's awesome, and he takes care of things that break around the house. When together, we look like long time lovers / friends. We hold hands & put our hands freely on one another, for the most part.
I have been through anguish -- which is why I found this site. I have the DB book and am trying the LRT, although I stumble sometimes. He said yesterday that he isn't sure three months is long enough. I don't have any reason to suspect an A and he says there is none. He spends most evenings drinking with a new group of friends, none of which I have met, and several are girls. His mother is pressuring him to get a divorce although she doesn't live locally.
The problem is, he "fell out of love" with me and is trying to get the feeling back but doesn't have it. He said if he wanted a divorce we would be talking that and not separation. He doesn't want MC or to work on our marriage. He calls or texts me usually twice a day--sometimes we flirt. What should I do?
Welcome to the board.
MLC is a very long hard road.
Are you ready for the challenge?
He is asking for SPACE, give it to him.
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what he say and half of what he does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Thanks, Cadet. I find that very encouraging.
I spent 5 hours with H today at HP & we did lunch. We ML twice (he initiated) and I gave him a very sensual massage. He seems very excited about me, but when we are very close like that, he usually withdraws emotionally for the next couple of days.
I encouraged him about seeing "healing" in him and he said "but I just don't know what the next step is". I said things were going well now, he'll know when it comes time for the next step. Sound okay?
Sorry but you are still very early into this, enjoy the good times and let go of the bad ones.
Let him control the contact.
Unfortunately things usually get worse before they get better.
Read up on depression, and keep posting so hopefully you will get off of moderation.
You can not control him or his MLC.
It is his to make through and you are along for the ride.
Try to stay off the rollercoaster because it might make you sick.
Hope that helps.
Wonderful post Cadet. I am taking your post to heart today.
It's so hard to believe sometimes this man you thought you knew so well, isn't going to "snap out of it" tomorrow. He's taking the partying drug. And he is such a mild mannered, kind man full of integrity.
Sometimes it's so easy to forget to control what I say! Two days ago we met at a bike shop to buy a new bike for our S12. It all went great & he came back to our home but he looks so -- dazed & disconnected here. He fixed a dirt bike tire & looked around and said "what else is broken?" I said, "there's something else broken you can fix." He said, "what?" I said "me!" I'm so ashamed I said that! It kinda slipped out!
Other than that huge faux pas, I'm able to be happy and cheerful when he calls and texts me which is 1-2 times a day. I always wait for him to initiate. But it tears me up when he's out drinking and partying in the evening. So hard to let go!
When he left our home that evening, he looked about and remarked how peaceful it is (20 acres in a country setting). He looks so wistful but he goes back to his city apartment, 45 minutes away.
One thing that is tripping me up right now is FaceBook. The people my H drinks with love to put locations and photos of drinking and dancing activities. I seem to be addicted to late at night checking my phone for the progress of where and who my husband is with. It makes me tired the next day and frustrated at him (I don't say anything to him about it...but it's inside me) for doing these things.
I know mentally it's not helping me. I wonder about girls putting up pics of themselves on FaceBook with married men, do they do it to make me jealous? Is it just what everybody does these days?
It frustrates me that I'm holding our home together, (SAHM) and he is out partying! One of my girlfriends said...he's in the best shape of his life (bodybuilding), has lots of cash and every night is free. Why would he leave that lifestyle?
The interesting thing about H saying it's so peaceful here, is, that during that moment it wasn't! An oil rig has been erected directly next to our property and temporarily is making a LOT of noise 24/7. the wind was blowing 20-25 mph. But my husband sees it as peaceful here.
It reminded me that we see our circumstances from our feelings -- not from what is actually going on. A good object lesson,
I'm very happy he sees our place as peaceful. I wish I always felt that way in my heart! But this DB forum is helping. Thank you to all!
I was thinking about how it was when H & I were first together. He moved in with me and my 2 1/2 year old son (I had never been married) into my rented condo. Things became routine. My career was going well (I have since become a SAHM) and I wanted to move things along. It was clear he wasn't ready for marriage so I bought a townhouse in my name only. We acted as if it was "ours" of course as it was being built and then moved in it together. Somewhere less than a year later he asked me to marry him.
I was trying to correlate this to today. Somehow I think H won't progress and heal until I do. After reading some of the success stories on this website I realize the journey is as much mine as it is his. It's just these powerful emotions get in the way sometimes! How do I handle them? (mostly sadness and pity for myself as well as desire to control H's actions)
H admitted to me last night he is not interested in any one specific girl! I'm sure he enjoys the attention of lots of girls. Scary from my perspective, but completely normal, I'm sure. I still don't have reason to suspect A.
He said he isn't ready to commit fully to the partying lifestyle, but neither is he ready to come home (6 weeks separated). At least I don't feel we are currently headed for D. I need patience, warm and loving kindness, & a non-judgmental attitude for him in his MLC.
Today I visited him for an hour before my cake decorating class (new hobby for me). I initiated the visit, just got the vibes it was what he wanted. I made it sound like the visit was just part of my busy day -- not the main thing. It was very rewarding, we just cuddled on the couch for an hour. He did most of the talking. Mostly about what he's been doing & wants to do. I found it very productive for our relationship & I was the perfect little DB'er!
Post May 16
Tomorrow is our 14th anniversary. Two weeks ago he asked me what I wanted to do on our anniversary and I said I had marked it off the calendar. He asked if I wanted to go to dinner. I said yes, and later he added that we will go dancing. So tomorrow I'm going to buy a new outfit because it worked better for us to celebrate Friday night.
I changed my approach with him a little after evaluation, as DB technique says to do. I noticed long days between seeing each other doesn't seem to be as good as more frequent shorter visits. Like every 2 or 3 days and definitely some alone time for hugging, cuddling and intimacy.
I see a distinct change in him relating to me. Many more loving gestures and desire for me. It's like he is splitting his life between me and the party bug. It's so hard to stay on track and not be distracted with his constant partying. Although in some ways it's easier since we are physically separated because he doesn't see me on a bad day at home and he says I always look very nice when he sees me.
I almost melted on Friday when we met for Mexican food and some games of pool. He asked to sit in my car with me. We cuddled lovingly for a while. He looked at me SO intently. When he went to say goodbye he took my face in his hands and kissed me very lovingly. Not for a long time but very sweetly. It's the first real affection I've seen in probably six months although we have ML many times.
As things inch (baby steps) towards getting better, I continually find my emotions hard to keep under control. My H has activities to go to this weekend (doesn't offer what they are) and I'm dying to know. But to keep our positive changes happening, I need to keep on keeping on! I don't ask him where he is going, where he has been or who he is with. If he offers that information, I try to listen as a friend would -- interested but not prying.
I'm giving him plenty of space. And truthfully, am being rewarded. Last night at 9:30 pm he called me "just because". That is a goal I had on my list. He wanted to tell me how I need to be acknowledged in Homeschooling our oldest son. This son got a 35 (out of 36) on his ACT and I home schooled him all 12 years. He's gotten lots of scholarships for this fall. So my H wanted to say how much he appreciated my hard work. Words of approval are not his love language so he hemmed and hawed for a while before it came out. But when he did say it -- it was beautiful -- music to my ears!
Being it was the night before our 14th anniversary, and that we are physically separated, it really meant a lot!
I wanted so much to post "happy anniversary" to H on FaceBook as he did to me two years ago. But I had to ask myself if that would bring me closer to my goal and I think it would not unless he posts it first. But he didn't, he just texted it to me. So I'll be happy with what I get and not wish for more.
A month ago we were talking about lawyers and divorce and those subjects never come up now. It's a good day!
Tonight we have our anniversary dinner. When I saw H 2 days ago I timidly asked if he was planning on having me stay overnight at HP. He said, "well, that's the plan."
I bought a new maxi red dress, sleeveless, with a plunging neckline. Although with all the weight I have lost -- there is nothing to see! but it's a 180 for me. I'm not exactly excited about tonight, but am trying to be. Its so numbing to have this anniversary and for us to be living separately. I am trying to not understand it, but live with it. Happily.
H went to a social networking event yesterday evening (girls, drinks, music) and gushed on FB about how lovely it was. Part of me is happy he is able to express his feelings openly (something he has struggled with) and part of me is insanely jealous! This DBing would be easy if it weren't for these wild emotions!
So we had our wonderful anniversary celebration. I had a great time! He bought me simple flowers for our anniversary, no card. I choked up a little when we had a glass of wine at HP before leaving for the restaurant. He has always done our toasts. He said that although our future is uncertain, we can be thankful for what we have now. That was so hard to hear. I tried not to cry, I said nothing was wrong. But a few tears came out. He said since he hasn't decided one way or the other that says something, I tried to quickly drink the wine to get past that moment. It worked, I became my cheerful, bubbly self & we had a great evening. I stayed till 10 the next morning & he made me breakfast. I loved it!
I cried at breakfast too for just a couple minutes. For these past two months I just give, give, give at home to our S12 and S18. They are great boys but children are by nature takers. So to have someone make ME breakfast was overwhelming. Even when H was at home, I did all the cooking except he made waffles Sunday mornings and I helped him with it. But I got past that teary place this morning too & it was great! Now it's Saturday night & he's out partying with hus friends. :-(
H came out to the house today. It was a great visit. I noticed much more affection. Hand holding, touching me gently if he passed me in the house, laying on the bed and cuddling. I made a delicious lunch and he really enjoyed it. He took a walk outside by himself (we have 20 acres) in the rain with his boots and raincoat and he was so refreshed when he got back!
He spent time with each boy and lots of time with me as he was here 5 hours. We napped together (cuddling) which is something we always love to do.
I had prepared myself mentally for this visit. This morning, I read the 37 rules. I reread in the DR book under "wait and watch". I think I had messed up on our anniversary date by being too gushing, which is my nature. So today, I was just warm, friendly, and encouraging. We ML every time we see each other which is usually 2-3 times a week. H said he wants to take me to dinner (nice place, dress up, full evening type) every two weeks, come to the house to visit me and the boys (like today) every week, and have midweek encounter where I meet him at HP for light dinner, pool & swim or hot tub--that sort of thing.
As I write this, it doesn't sound too bad. I saw in DR that Michelle says not to worry if your marriage gets into a holding pattern. I suppose it's where healing over time takes place. It takes patience and I'm happy to learn that trait, which is NOT my nature. I think my strategy should lie between the LRT and "wait and watch".
At one point, I wanted so badly to ask about our R. I looked at him. He looked at me. He said, "what?" I said "nothing" and walked away. I realized, as I was preparing the lunch in the kitchen, I had actually experienced power--the power of self-control! It was awesome! I really liked it!
I realized, in the middle of the night last night, I'm in complete denial over what has happened to our family. Yesterday evening, our boys and I made seasoned popcorn and fruit smoothies and watched a nature documentary. For years, this has been a favorite Saturday night family activity. I was checked our emotionally as I yearned for the past when H was here. That is cheating myself and my boys. It's a cheap copout, not wanting to accept the present.
As I described above, our life is not bad, visitation with H is going very well, money is no problem and I don't work, just homeschool & take care of the house & property. So it remains to accept who I am right now and who I am becoming, who he is right now and who he us growing into, and providing a happy home for our boys.
He has left to go to a BBQ, parade, and "hot bod" contest as a spectator, with a bunch of guys this afternoon/evening. Detach, detach, detach. At least he tells me now almost all his activities. He offers. I don't pry.
I keep rebelling against acceptance, internal anger sometimes appears as well. I want to move to acceptance. Any ideas from anyone on how to bridge the gap?
Hi, I got interested in you thread because of the homeschooling. WE also HS our sons. Congrats on the scholarships for the 18 yr old.
Now, I hate to be Debbie Downer but I what if your H is having sex along with all his partying? Are you using protections when you have sex with him?
How do you really feel about your current R with H?
Thanks labug. I'm glad to think things through.
H and I together planned this three month separation. We took about four hours in February and outlined our boundaries. We laughed, we cried, we planned. I feel we have been abiding by those boundaries. I just was shocked at how painful its been. Examples of a behavior expected: texting or talking every day. I let him contact me. He does once, twice or more per day.
We agreed to intimacy at least once a week to help with another boundary, no dating for either of us. He has been careful, at least as far as I can tell, to only party in group situations. He is mimicking behavior he had in high school -- a large group of shallow friends doing events together. His sister that died, (initiating, I believe, the MLC) was only a year older than him. I feel he is doing these behaviors that they did together as sort of a replay?
I feel you never really know for sure about OP. Trust is a big issue with us. So, I've chosen to not protect myself sexually. If I saw something that didn't look right I would make a different decision. But I haven't. So......?
Regarding our current R, I feel it's too fluid to know what it even is! I'm excited about the type of events my H attends, and would eventually like to be a part if some of it, but not all. Art shows, motorcycle bike nights, wine tastings, wine sharing, we've started attending Broadway shows, which we didn't used to do. The occasional concert, live music, it's a part of our life that was missing for a long time. I also would like (him too) to do some home entertaining and have a beautiful outdoor room we would build together. We work very well together on common goals and we would like to start investing money.
These are some hopes/dreams on hold for us that I can't discuss or pursue with him right now.
Now, that H is giving me more personal attention, I'm finding myself falling in love with him again. Excited about everything about him. A year ago I didn't feel that way at all. Jan of 2012 I was feeling that I had a right to relationship with him. And in a quiet way, I was demanding. Now I want him to love me. It's a different feeling. I like the phrase I see on this forum sometimes. I want to be a woman only a fool would leave.
If I saw something that didn't look right I would make a different decision. But I haven't. So......?
I'm not sure if you mean if you see something in his behavior or see something physically. Better safe than sorry, either way
Sounds like you're having fun. Do you attend events similar to what he's doing?
I hope it works out for you.
I guess I mean if I suspected in any way he wasn't telling the truth, I would change.
About events, or GAL. I have done some 180's since the beginning of the year, although not the same as his. I joined a fitness boot camp and went two months twice a week, I wanted to gain five pounds, but lost it instead and can't seem to get it back!
I joined a gardening class, then a cake decorating class. I went to a Broadway show with my S18 and a family girlfriend. I took my boys to a niece's graduation in a neighboring state last weekend. There was a party and I kept the boys out till midnight. S12 told H how late we were out. I didn't!
So, I've had some events. Also, some incidents here at home I dealt with, without H. Rattlesnake in the kitchen and separately putting a dog down we had for eight years, and digging the grave and burying her here. Also, I NEVER did yard work in my life and I'm doing it all & there's a lot of it!
So not all exactly a social GAL, but all 180's for me. I really didn't/couldn't do anything without him. So I'm growing stronger and I feel his respect for me growing as well.
I really appreciate you engaging with me. It's been so lonely with very few friends or family members I feel comfortable sharing with. And they all have their opinions on what I should do. As you have yours about intimacy. And it's sound advice, I thank you for it and for listening.
I'm just offering a word of caution. I friend of mine got the gift that keeps on giving from her H. They were S (after 30yr M), got back together, he said he hadn't been with anyone...
Now, they are D, and she's dating and has to tell potential partners this. Not good.
By your mention of "partying drug" did you mean he's addicted to partying?
I'm glad you're getting out, doing fun things and stretching your independence.
And I won't bring it up again : )
I was using the term, "partying drug" metaphorically. I think he is addicted to the fun, entertainment and attention. He and I are both somewhat compulsive anyway.
Ironically, today he is sick. Too much partying. He told me he needs more sleep and less alcohol. That's something a person has to decide on their own, someone else can't tell them.
I spent my free time today looking through my diaries of 2008, 2009, 2010. I'm appalled at how many times we discussed his unhappiness, desire for more entertainment, discontent with church standards, discontent with me, yet I was callous to make any changes. I just worried about it but didn't do anything. I'm so ashamed.
Today we had a (good) lengthy texting session about whether I'm making changes to impress him or because I want them (he wanted to know). I told him I have been tempted to want to impress him, and I would like it if he liked the changes, but I want to be the best I can be for me.
This separation is giving me time to develop more of myself as a woman. That's another reason to detach from his behaviors. If I don't, I spend my time worrying and not growing.
I'm having fewer tears and more balance. And that feels really good!
I was using the term, "partying drug" metaphorically. I think he is addicted to the fun, entertainment and attention. He and I are both somewhat compulsive anyway.
I thought that's what you meant, thanks for clarifying.
Sounds like things are going well for you. Maybe his partying will run it's course.
Thanks, labug. It means so much to have you exchange with me. It's great to be able to say things here.
With H & DB communication seems so limited. Can't talk about the past or future. Can't talk to many friends or relatives. The present realities are limited since you can't usually say how you feel. DB is really a program of incredible self-control.
Friday will be an important day. It's the day he pays rent for the third month of his three month lease. He will either have to give notice that he is moving out, or go month-to month. He told me last week he hadn't decided what to do yet. I have been careful not to bring it up.
Since it's a fully furnished corporate style apartment it's expensive. $1500/month. H doesn't like to part with his money. I suppose he could find other options.
I'm trying to prepare myself mentally for whatever decision he comes to. Will I have the self-control to act warm, friendly and supportive no matter what? Moving back home will have its set of challenges as well. Hmmmmm.....
I'm trying to detach myself from H's behaviors. It's not that I don't enjoy the life I have, but, somehow, even after all this, there is that desire to control someone else. And that's not healthy.
So I am contemplating that detaching means more than just not thinking about what he's doing. If all I think about is what he is doing, somehow what I am doing doesn't seem as valuable. And that's not right!
So I need to value my life, and that will help me detach from his behavior. Yet, enjoying him when I do see him.
He said he would like to come over tomorrow afternoon. I offered to drive to HP (45 minutes) but it sounded like he really wanted to come here. And that's good! He even said he would help me with some of the lawn care. I'm tickled about that. I'd love to work with him on something--not just always go to dinner or talk or whatever!
i really like that.
"So I am contemplating that detaching means more than just not thinking about what he's doing. If all I think about is what he is doing, somehow what I am doing doesn't seem as valuable. And that's not right!
So I need to value my life, and that will help me detach from his behavior. Yet, enjoying him when I do see him."
that is really going to help me get some perspective
I'm glad it was of some help.
It seems easier to feel conviction when you see it written down somehow.
I had a victory in detachment tonight! May it stick! H is a big FB user. He uses it to coordinate social events with his new friends. Whenever I saw a pic posted of H in party situations (girls, drinking, etc.) I would copy it and file it in an electronic photo album. And viewing these pics has caused me much grief!
So....tonight I deleted all of them! When we continue to mull over certain undesirable behaviors of our spouse, it gives them power they don't deserve in our lives. I deserve to be happy too! I am trying to learn to give myself permission to leave the sadness behind and enjoy my present life. Even be happy. Trying anyway. Lol.
Ahhhh Facebook!
Some people think it's evil but it's like everything else in life, it can be good, it can be bad.
It all depends on how you use it. You are in control of that.
Yay for you on taking a step out of the mire of victimhood!
The biggest step in detaching is realizing on the deepest levels that H has his own journey which you have no control over.
Let him go on that journey.
One of my favorite detachment reminders: To let go is not to try to blame of change another; it is to make the most of myself.
Labug, is that quote, "not to try to blame OR change another"? Just checking to make sure I got the meaning right.
Excellent! I love it!
Honestly, I could take or leave FB but since H is so invested in it, as are my extended family and friends, I think it helps me stay in touch since I'm a SAHM. Also, H "likes" everything I post or comments on it usually within five minutes. He really likes the electronic avenues of communication (texting also) so for communication with him, I try to make it easy for him.
You are right though, like so many things it can be a blessing or a curse!
yes, "blame or change" (I should really use preview more LOL)
I like FB too and spend far more time on it than I should but there are a lot of people I hide 'cause it's just not worth the aggravation.
Having a rough morning. S12 was unhappy with some things and was complaining. It reminded me all over again how things aren't the way they used to be. The tears seem so close to the surface at times but I try really diligently not to let the boys see me cry.
Yes, when I look back on the early days (months) of my sitch, I was a mess. My boys saw me cry.
I was sad. I tried not to blame but I did tell them that sometimes I was sad and sometimes I would cry. They didn't need to worry about me or try to fix me.
I also told them I would get through it.
Thanks, labug. It's not wrong to feel sad if we are hurt. I like the not expecting someone else to worry about me or fix me part. H has his journey but I have mine too! As painful as it is that he chose to move out, it does give me some space to grow. And I need that!
I guess I can go on with the day. Once I get on the riding mower, maybe my tears will blow away in the wind! Lol!
Riding my bike was an outlet for me. I would coast down the hills and scream as loud as I could (luckily there were no people around).
I would also call him every name in the book while riding.
Helped get it out of my system.
H came by for a visit. It was quite low key since he was still sick. Hard to read him. I stuck to good DB'ing. Warm, friendly, helpful, kind. No R talk. No ILY.
He seemed, even in spite of the sickness, more relaxed here than before. Maybe being sick and stopping the partying and stopping drinking alcohol (temporarily) has helped him gain a little perspective. Idk.
Why does it bother me when he calls HP "home"? Just a little thing. Does that bother anyone else?
He said he might come out here Friday to look at a dirt bike in town for S12. He looked at me inquiringly, somehow, a few times, but I always had a pleasant, gentle expression on my face. No trace of tears or sadness. I told myself firmly, "you can always cry later when he is gone". And it worked! And you know what? I'm not even crying now! Yay!
It's not really like I have a thing to cry about. I've read some other people's sitch'es and I have it really, really easy! You just get in a habit of feeling sorry for yourself & then the tears come. But I can just as easily get in a habit of being happy, could I not?
It bothers me when H calls his place home. I try to ignore it but I think it's because I worked so hard to make a "home" and he can call anyplace home just because his stuff is there.
I went to the store today to get some groceries and noticed how I felt a little different. I wasn't so absorbed in my situation that I didn't notice anybody else.
I wonder sometimes if GAL isn't just going out and doing new things, but how you feel about yourself in the ordinary every-day things you do.
I had a smile for the stock boy at the store who asked me how I was. Chatted amiably with the cashier about families. I played peek-a-boo with the one year old in the cart ahead of me, and a big smile for a grandma-type who walked by.
These are things I couldn't/didn't do when I was feeling too sorry for myself. When I notice other people, when I walk with confidence, it makes me feel a whole lot better about me. Like not all of life has to do with the fact my husband and I are separated.
I went to the store today to get some groceries and noticed how I felt a little different. I wasn't so absorbed in my situation that I didn't notice anybody else.
I wonder sometimes if GAL isn't just going out and doing new things, but how you feel about yourself in the ordinary every-day things you do.
I had a smile for the stock boy at the store who asked me how I was. Chatted amiably with the cashier about families. I played peek-a-boo with the one year old in the cart ahead of me, and a big smile for a grandma-type who walked by.
These are things I couldn't/didn't do when I was feeling too sorry for myself. When I notice other people, when I walk with confidence, it makes me feel a whole lot better about me. Like not all of life has to do with the fact my husband and I are separated.
Yeah! It's great to be able to look up at people again! I have noticed the same thing recently
So I am contemplating tomorrow when H has to pay his rent on the third month of his 3-month lease. I'm assuming he is either going to give notice he is moving out (back home?) or going month-to-month. I can't read his feelings at all.
I'm trying to prepare myself for either scenario. If he is going to move back home, I don't want to act too excited, because I know there are a lot of things to work out. It will give me a great chance to DB with him in the house. I didn't get DR until a couple of weeks before he moved out and, truthfully, I didn't "get it" at the time.
If he goes going month-to-month on his lease, I don't want to cry out of disappointment. I want to receive it as a "gift" of time. There's so much I can work on in myself, with my kids, and with our home and property.
And...in the case of "other" -- a decision I didn't anticipate, I need to just hold it together until he leaves for the evening. Just look at him and try to understand he is asking for space. Try to appreciate if it was me asking for it from him, I would want him to give it to me.
So I was low key today. Preparing mentally for tomorrow.
My boys and I sat out on our fence today just listening. We live pretty far out in the country. We used to do that sometimes when H was here. Just be quiet for a few minutes and than talk about the things we heard. It's quite therapeutic.
There was a big oil rig that was erected directly next to our property, near our house, about the same time H was about to move out. It's been noisy 24/7 since then. I have actually been grateful H hasn't had to live with that. The timing was good.
They took the rig down two days ago, hence we were listening to the quiet. Both S12 and S18 said they didn't appreciate the quiet and the privacy till it was gone. I feel like that about H. I think I haven't fully appreciated what he was to me till he was gone.
I want him back SO much! But more importantly, I need to be whole and healthy.
Of course there is always the possibility he won't tell me his decision. Lol.
We haven't done it that way up to this point. I will have to wait and see.
Personally, I would stop having sex with him completely. Also, I think if you can't prove he's having an affair I bet there is someone he is "talking" to or interested in. That is why he needs his space or is saying "it's not enough time."
If he wants to come home he should work for it. You work on yourself. Start living your life.
Luv
Thanks, ll.
What do you mean by if he wants to come home he should have to work for it?
I thought we were supposed to make coming home as easy as possible.
H called me and said he is extending his lease another month. Nothing has changed with his feelings.
I read some advice from the other sitch's and think I've been too easy. He hasn't missed me too much, I give him food from our house, ask him to come fix things, etc.
I haven't really demonstrated I can live without him.
I did ask him about MC as we had discussed it before he moved out and both had said this would be about the right time to do it. He said he would think about it.
We are going to have a casual date tomorrow night. Instead of being sad he isn't coming home in a month (we both agree it would be very bad if he wasn't ready) I want to look at it as an opportunity.
He said he can't ever see coming back to ths house and situation but he isn't willing to give it up. He's on the fence but the draw of the party life is strong. I still don't believe he has an A.
He said he loved me. He still isn't in love with me but enjoys being with me.
What do I do? Just the 37 rules? Smell good, look nice? What else?
I copied advices from this forum on different sitch's that I felt were similar to my own. I put them together in a document on my iPad and read and reread them tonight.
And I feel a lot of strength building up inside me!
I can see the wimpy "poor me" attitude I've had over these past few months.
Only one day I remember having that cocky, I'm attractive and a go-getter attitude. About a month and a half ago H wanted me to have the oil changed in the car, something he always did. I didn't want to, but did it anyway and had a great attitude about it!
But much of the time it's been a tired, just-holding-it-together attitude. Also, a hoping-he-will-notice-my-changes attitude. That is SO unattractive!
Thank you to everyone contributing solid advice and discussion in the many different threads. It's been a lifeline for me and I can see (finally) that I can be strong, confident, sexy, attractive and NOT needy or clingy!!!
And that's the kind of person I would always want to be, married or not!
I got most of my support from reading other threads and going into the archives. You have to separate the wheat from the chaff but you can find some good stuff.
I also have a DB Words of Wisdom file. It does help to read that in the low times.
I know you must be hurting with the news that H is staying with the single life for now.
Do you feel he's cake-eating?
Like I'm making it too easy for him?
Yes, I suppose.
I got sidetracked a little bit from the Men are from mars.....synopsis I found. I feel like one of my angles has been to try to meet his needs.
I see that this is the wrong timing for that.
We talked about dating other people. He said he may ask for that soon (a month or two) hard to tell. I assured him we wouldn't ML once that happens. Not as a threat, just can't go there. Idk. Maybe I shouldn't have brought it up.
It's totally awkward emotionally do to that now but it's a primary love language for us both.
I've been anxious to touch him when we are together. Hold hands, etc. I think I really need to totally back off from that immediately. He takes me for granted -- I'm taking care of everything in this part of his life--he is just working, partying and paying the bills. He knows I'm trustworthy to take care of things here at home and with our boys like I've always done.
And I'm too available with these darn smartphones!
I'm not ready to go out partying myself, but there's plenty I can do.
I was just considering maybe taking the boys for an overnight camping trip next weekend when he has a treasured "wine share" party (which I despise). It would help me not to be home obsessing about what he is doing as well.
I'm finally feeling some spunk again!
cake-eating...having his cake and eating it too.
Sort of like this: He takes me for granted -- I'm taking care of everything in this part of his life--he is just working, partying and paying the bills. He knows I'm trustworthy to take care of things here at home and with our boys like I've always done.
and he can have sex with you.
He's living the rock-star lifestyle, he's getting his needs met. Are you?
Is this the life you want?
DR says with a separation use the LRT. GAL and focus on you. You are worth it. Your kids are worth it.
Good for you with the spunk!
Started the day with a few tears. It's H's birthday and he is going to spend the day with us. He texted and is about to leave HP on his BMW motorcycle. I think these milestones are especially difficult.
I decorated the kitchen with balloons and streamers as is our custom. And I'm trying out my new cake decorating skills (from my class) for a pretty cake.
I went to HP last evening for a quiet date. He is still sick so we just did some shopping together and watched a movie on DVD and had pizza and beer. I had gone there with all intentions of just acting like a "friend" or "co-worker" etc. But he hugs me, cuddles with me, often reaches for my hand or leg, etc. So we cuddled like we always do. Is that okay if the WAS wants physical contact with you? and you are not initiating it?
On the way to HP I turned on the radio to an oldies station and they were playing "you've lost that lovin' feeling". Talk about begging, pleading etc. Lol!
Today, I want to be cheerful and upbeat. I want to show him how happy home can be. I just made a simple "have a great birthday! Love, Me" with an print of a lipstick kiss. Hope that's loving but low-key enough.
Did you read the Laura Munson book? This is Not the Story You Think It Is
If you haven't, I think you would like it. Her approach to her H's midlife crisis was much like yours.
Have fun at the B-day party.
Annnnnd, because I think you will appreciate this from one HS mom to another-S22 is on the Dean's List for his second semester at university after transferring from community college.
=@@= (that's a fist bump)
Fantastic on your son's year on Dean's List! I know you are very proud and should be! It's a reflection on your hard work and commitment to him too! Wonderful!
About Laura Munson's book. Thanks, I'll look for it. I need some more good reading material. I hope it has a happy ending. Lol!
I am proud but the best thing is I see how happy he is and how this is HIS accomplishment. He's proving himself and his self-esteem has grown by leaps and bounds. He's finding his place in the world under his own steam. It's been a joy to witness.
A very bright spot in what started out to be a bleak year.
He shared with me that he has realized he thinks in a less regimented way than other students, he sees more possibilities and is more comfortable with outside the box.
Nature? Nurture? Whatever, it will serve him well in the future.
H is gone now. We had a very nice day. I made a great lunch and we laughed a lot with the boys.
Why is DBing so hard?
I wanted so very much to "talk about things". But I didn't. Didn't cry. Just upbeat and helpful.
I did ask him if he had thought about MC. He said he had thought about it. He said "one way or the other" it would be good to know where things are at. I, of course, was dying to know NOW and what that meant, but, somehow, I kept my mouth shut.
I just figured if we go to MC I'll understand a little more, perhaps?
After riding dirt bikes with S12, H showered and was just laying on the bed looking at the ceiling fan. I asked if he was sad (he looked very sad), he said, "no, just contemplative". I tried to remember all the advice about giving your spouse space so I said nothing.
He'll be back at 9 in the morning to take S12 to an ATV park.
I say we had a nice time. But it's obvious H is plagued with lots of feelings he's not sharing. When I see pics of him partying with his friends he looks like the life of the party. Ecstatic even. When he's around us (wife and kids) he looks torn.
Labug, I read the reviews fir the Laura Munson book. Not for everyone but it looks terrific for me! Thanks! I'll get it ASAP!
Funny, even the quotes from the book on Amazon I found inspiring. I find myself becoming so easily encouraged and discouraged these days!
Roller coaster?
Had the best day with H! He ate breakfast with us. Took S12 dirt bike riding. He ate lunch with us.
We splashed around in our pool with S12 playing games for a while. It seems so bonding to have two committed parents having fun with their child!
We talked for a while too. I told him I didn't want him to feel like I was pushing him into MC. H reaffirmed he is on the fence. Not willing to give either life (party life or home life) up. We both agreed we could live this way for a while as he felt only "time" could help him.
We did an interesting thing together. I showed him my synopsis of my diary since 2008 when we both feel the MLC started. We read it together. We both cried. Somehow, it seemed to have an impact on H to see his pain & our oft reconciling -- chronicled before him. He thanked me sincerely, then wasn't ready to talk any more but he treated me differently (much more gently, kindly and lovingly) the rest of the afternoon.
He didnt leave till after six. I'm not expecting changes. I just think it looks like it was a good thing, a healing thing for him to read that with me.
He told me his mother is urging him to divorce me and not to worry how the boys or I will fare. :-(
I'm going to buy the book labug suggested tonight on iBooks (my first iBooks purchase--but I want to read it right away). I read the free preview last night.
Thanks, labug!
Glad you like the book. I read it very early in my journey.
We have always camped in various forms from tent, to pop-up camper, to truck camper, to trailer. In fact H has made our travel trailer his home since he moved out. Camping was one of our favorite things to do together.
As the boys have gotten older they don't appreciate camping as much but we had some great times when they were younger.
______________________
Why would his mother say that? Is there a history there.
Does H live on your property in the travel trailer?
Yes, history with the mother. I didn't know if it applied to my sitch so I hadn't brought it up. H was married at age 20, for 7 years, no kids, then met me. His mother hated his first wife. H falls in love with me, divorces first wife. His mother says she'll make every day of my life hell if I marry him. He marries me, his mother becomes best friends with first wife. Go figure.
Rocky relationship throughout. In many ways I'm like her, in some ways not.
When his sister died in 2007, I really feel like his mother wished I had died instead. His sister lived at home for all of her 40 years except two when she married, then divorced.
I struggled with my feelings of resentment toward my MIL for many years. I've pretty much detached myself totally, a good feeling. She never contacts me, and never responds to any overtures from me. It's ok, when I used to complain about her, H would defend her. Now I never say anything but supportive things about her ... And now he complains about her!
I suppose she is connected with his MLC, in that she came to live with us for six months after his sister died. The summer from hell. It's all in the past now, so it seems.
H wouldn't listen to her when she begged him not to marry me. He said he won't let her influence him now. He brings these things up, not me.
Considering this situation with my MIL. After the summer from hell with her, I told my husband he would have to choose between her and me.
I had suggested SO many alternatives -- living in town, renting the house next door. After all, we live on twenty acres! I suggested building a small, beautiful cabin for her. H wanted that for her too. We offered to adopt his niece, his sister's daughter, age 6, living here now too.
She would have none of it. She had to live in our RV pulled up next to our house, about eight feet from our French doors from our homeschool room.
Where I spend much of my time.
So...the point of bringing this up is my H had to ask her to leave. Probably one of the most painful things he ever had to do. They lost his father in 2002.
In hindsight, would have made some different decisions? Yes. I would have gone to therapy! I suggested she needed it! It was a nightmare for all of us.
It set the stage for his MLC the next year. He had low confidence, we had few close friends, and his close wonderful family he grew up with had either died or he had to push away.
Insights for me? Advice? Encouragement? 2x4's?
No, H doesn't live on our property. He rents a lot in an RV park for a crazy amt of money. I just have to shake my head when I think of it. But, it's his life.
About the mother-in-law. I have/had the best MIL in the world, she loves me, she loves my boys, and she stayed totally out of our lives except when invited in. I hope to be like her when my sons marry.
About his family, if he had to push them away it seems they weren't so close and wonderful.
I accidentally hit submit-
What would you have done differently other than go to therapy?
"About his family, if he had to push them away it seems they weren't so close and wonderful.". I never thought about that! What an awesome concept!
I guess I had always wished I'd been more perfect. Lol. More patient. More understanding.
My husband said about that summer, "my mother isn't just content to despise you. She wants to make sure everybody else knows it too!"
I always felt I didn't acknowledge their grief enough.
But now, I think what I would have done differently is the same thing I'm trying to do differently now -- detach lovingly, work on my own self and who I am, and let the other person have their own journey. Looks like those principles would work in all relationships
Hi ReachingHigher - just wanted to say I've read your sitch and admire how strong you are and how well you're doing.
I think your H is doing a bit of cake-eating, having a great and intimate relationship with you and then going back to his single-guy lifestyle. It's hard to know what's right to do, but I am glad that you have good times with your H.
Keep posting here and let us know how you're doing.
I went back and re-read the beginning of your thread. He does sound like the classic MLC (even tho I hate that term)-how about life-crisis-which-can-occur-at-any-age?
Have you read much on that board?
Did H have any specific complaints or was he just done? My H had complaints and was also done and wanted to find happiness.
I read over on MLC but haven't posted there. This seems like home.
Weird, huh?
Adinva, thanks for the encouraging comments. Sometimes I do feel strong, sometimes the weakest of the weak. Sometimes I'm embarrassed to post on here...but I think it's helping me to vent.
I'm not blind to the "cake-eating". I don't know how to give him space any other way. We are still very, very close. I am choosing to trust him right now. Of course, it still feels good to have him a part of my life. I don't know the struggles he has in his brain. I don't think, from what I read in DR, I'm violating the principles of this path.
Labug, recently I've started to try to identify those specific complaints. Many of them are solved now, but it doesn't bring his feelings back. I had a couple of major issues that made it really hard for him. I had a huge health issue for several years that made us all miserable. It took a lot of searching and trial-and-error but I'm very healthy now. But it wears down a marriage.
Partly in relation to my health issue I had a lack of interest in ML and a corresponding growing interest in church. He had that interest in church too, for a time, but it faded before mine did. I wasn't listening to him. Just kept pushing my agenda forward.
So, basically, he wasn't a priority for me many years. He had his failures too, but I think overall he was a great husband, and he thinks I'm a great wife.
He's never had the opportunity to live by himself like he is now. Never did it. Went from his moms place at age 20 to his first wife. Went from his first wife directly to me. We even did counseling at that time but we were so crazy about each other we ignored the advice to have a little time on his own. So he's taking it now.
The only other thing I could think if that might not be a resolved issue for him is career/money. We were both in the same profession. I quit. He makes very good money. But I haven't been as careful with that money as I should have. I urged him to give far too much to the church.
We worked for many years together to pay off our mortgage so we haven't "kept up" on our place like we should have. I know he would like it to look much better than it does. My health prevented me from doing a lot. But that's not the case now.
I know, from living other places and knowing him well, he needs a better standard of landscaping, decorating and home cleanliness than I have provided him. It's not like it's everything to him. He's just a man who would want to be proud of his accomplishments. He couldn't be proud of me when I was sick, when our place just looks "country". He grew up like that and wants so much more.
For him, the heart of it all would be a passionate relationship. But I know the other things are important too. I've done a great job with the kids, but they are growing up. There's more left to our lives and I think he's exploring if he wants to spend it with me or not.
Had sort of a bad meeting with H. He wanted to meet me at a Mexican cantina for some beer and pool when he got off of work at three. He wanted to switch cars with me so his red convertible could be in our shed tonight when the expected hailstorms hit.
I guess, sadly, after this weekend, I felt some closeness with him. He obviously hasn't felt any different. I can't seem to get it in my head that these things take a LONG time to reverse.
So, we started playing pool and he said what his plans were for Friday & Saturday with his new friends--all things I would love to do. None of which included me. So the tears tried to come. He asked what was wrong. I said nothing & tried to pretend I was okay. But there were tears in my eyes almost the whole time -- I could hardly eat, couldn't play pool. Have we all been there? Sometimes I feel like I would be the only one that can't control my emotions!
So we go to the car. (not the convertible, lol) We talk. It's about our R. Same old stuff. Didn't need to go there. Emotionally it's over for him but he still wants to give it time to get his feelings back. He doesn't feel the party life has enough to offer him but he's afraid to go back to our marriage. On the fence. I cry. I tell him I'm not feeling in love with him either but I love him dearly and want to try to make it work.
When I told him my concerns about how much he uses his smartphone in front of me he immediately withdrew. We've had this same argument for many years. Before the smartphone it was the computer. He said he had to go & packed my things & put them in the convertible that I was taking. It was terrible. He gave me a fake hug. We drove away. I waved goodbye.
On the way home (soon) he texted and said he was sorry. That we have to expect things aren't going to always be smooth in these situations. I said I was sorry too, and let's go back to yesterday except I won't have expectations and I will accept his smartphone usage. (I like my phone too -- it's just one of those thorns you get in a marriage and not want to let it go.)
Then...we flirted and joked texting the whole way home. My emotions are crazy! Or he's crazy! Or we are both crazy! I don't know!
Hmmmm, my emotions are crazy just reading this. I don't know what I would do if I was in your shoes.
This:
I know, from living other places and knowing him well, he needs a better standard of landscaping, decorating and home cleanliness than I have provided him. It's not like it's everything to him. He's just a man who would want to be proud of his accomplishments. He couldn't be proud of me when I was sick, when our place just looks "country". He grew up like that and wants so much more
About the landscaping,decorating and home cleanliness-are these things you want, too? Has he said he expects those things from you? You also have a very busy, full schedule.
Does he want, and let's face it, these are wants not needs, those things enough to pay someone else to get things to his standard?
Why couldn't he be proud of you when you were sick? What's that about?
I don't think he's crazy, I think he's getting a lot of what he wants and you're getting very little of what you want.
I think you need to revisit the separated friends with benefits arrangement because it is hurting you. I know you want to keep whatever of him he's willing to give, but look how it got your expectations up and then crushed you to have good times and find out he doesn't want you.
Read DR and think about going dark with him, to protect yourself from being swung around emotionally. If he misses you and pursues you, that's good. But don't be so available for him. Consider not ML with him anymore while he's not committed to you.
Labug, yes, he is willing to pay for those things. No, he's never really expected me to do more. I'm just grasping for what might be the problem.
The sickness was just hard for all of us (the family). Weak, sickly, feeling like I was dying, for years. I might've resented him too if he was like that. I know, shallow, but it's true.
Adinva, I'll think much more seriously about the arrangement. Our ML has been fireworks. Hard to let go of it. But being around an emotionally unstable person is NOT attractive. It's hardly worth it to not feel calm and balanced.
I've read DR a while ago and read a lot here. Still not exactly sure how "going dark" differs from LRT. I think I'm doing it, but I still mess up. Like two nights ago the electric was out and a huge storm bearing down & I texted him cause I was afraid. Earlier that evening my boys and I had gone in the storm shelter with rotating clouds just above us and dust swirling up from the ground. Scary stuff. Yes, he texted me back & forth and was there for me on the phone but he wasn't HERE!
I'm willing to try new options. I feel like he just isn't "taking time" he is giving us time. He's waiting for something. Something to change. That something must be me!
Well, texting him from the storm shelter was darker than getting him to come be with you in the storm shelter, but not by much.
Who would you text if he weren't in your life. What friends can you rely on, or family (not sons)?
What would moving on with your life look like? Can you begin to do that?
Hi RH, I've been reading up on your sitch, which has some similiar elements to mine. You've been getting some great advice from other posters.
My H still lives at home, and we get along, spend time together at home, still hang out, and also still ML (WAY more than before the bomb drop!). I found out my H was having an A and he said he was done in January and was supposed to move out...but he's still there.
It seems like you are focusing on your H ALOT. Believe me, we all do in the beginning. But you really need to focus on you. I'm not going to tell you to stop ML with your H because I haven't, and that would be hypocritical. But I will tell you to be careful. Sounds like he is cake eating - my H did - (Still is sometimes. I think all WAS do it at one time or another).
Think about the questions the other posters are asking you. I'm going to ask you this: What are you doing for YOU during this "trial separation"? What work are you doing to become a better you so you'll be a better partner no matter what happens?
Just some things to think about. I think given the circumstances, you're doing pretty good. But let H miss you some more. ALOT more in my opinion. Be & look busy...real busy. (Okay, so my busy was being a part of a FB group for the last few months...I think it at least made him wonder who I was talking to when I wasn't talking to him. *shrug*)
I would also encourage you to speak to one of the DB Coaches if you can afford it. My coach is Cheryl and she is the best! They may be able to help you come up with a list of what's working and what's not, and where to go from here. Just something to think about.
So, we started playing pool and he said what his plans were for Friday & Saturday with his new friends--all things I would love to do. None of which included me. So the tears tried to come
I know how you feel here. My W is doing the same and the pain hasn't gone away. Everything she said she needed space to do, I would happily do with her.
I am just making time my friend and hoping that when the W is doing those things, she thinks about how much fun it used to be when "we" did those things. I can hope, can't I?
Thanks so much for the empathy and advice!
No, I haven't been letting H miss me much! Cause I miss him so much! But NOW I know better!
I felt like I had been doing a few things or handling a few things without him. But in my mind I still think of him as my best friend, so I tend to still discuss things with hiim. I think that is bad in this situation.
I'm the naturally more talkative one so it feels so strange to reverse roles.
But with you all encouraging me, I think I can be more independent. I've tended, at times, (in the marriage too) to have low self-esteem. I tried to make a list of my talents and good points the other day and I could hardly come up with any!
When I was a career girl (before I was married) I was cocky and assertive,
well-dressed, and flirty. That's the girl that caught his eye. I want that back! It seems so far distant, age 52, SAHM that I am. But I would love to be that way again, just maybe a bit more mellowed with age and maturity!
I talked to H today on the phone about some car insurance issues we needed to discuss. I told him I'm almost done with S12 homeschool (sixth grade) and I'm looking forward to a "great summer"!
I don't know exactly how to do that. I'm not keen on doing things alone like attending concerts in the park or things like that. I don't really want to go to a meetup group, although I guess I could.
I've got a lot I enjoy here at home, but I've got to create a mix. (we live out in the country).
It's hard to know how to connect up with like-minded people. When we left church (first him, then me, the boys still go) we lost most of the few friends we had. Now he's got his new group, but I don't.
He goes to lots of networking events. I could try to go to one of those if I'm sure he won't be there. There are a lot in the city, especially during the summer.
I wasn't crazy about the cake decorating class for meeting people. There were so few there and I didn't click with anyone. But...I can make a pretty cake now
Any ideas?
RH - why don't you treat yourself to a new outfit that calls back to your prior flirty self?
As for going to concerts alone - I used to fear going anywhere by myself. Not so long ago I went to my first concert by myself and it was truly liberating. I realized that I could pay attention to everything that was going on, rather than always having some attention directed at the person with whom I was there. Plus - you can go anywhere in and out of the crowd - that's much harder with a group! I say go for the concert in the park - just one - take a blanket and a nice snack. If you don't like it, you can leave. But you just might be surprised, and you'll never know if you'd like it if you don't try it!
If you liked the cake decorating class (but not the people), what about some other kind of art or cooking class?
Girlfriend, I'm older than you are and have been married twice as long. You have no excuses.
I stepped my game up. You can, too! I ride my bike and do yoga (at home) it makes me feel strong.
I go to movies by myself (After the initial weirdness was over, I enjoy it-no one else to worry about, I can see what I want, when I want.)
Google Meet-up and see if there are groups in your area you might enjoy. Try it, you don't know you won't like it. What would you say to your boys if they balked at doing something like that?
Did you leave your church because you wanted to or because H did? Do you want to go back? Do, if that's what you want.
Or look for another church.
Volunteer somewhere.
Your H should see that you also have options. Right now you are the Plan B.
Do you want to be Plan B?
I didn't think so.
I'm loving these ideas! Thanks so much!
I've been dragging my feet because I don't want to be in this situation, but I can see...if I don't make some changes, it may become the permanent and not the temporary arrangement. I know, I know, I need to do it for myself.
But, I really did come here to see if I could work on my marriage, and I really do want him back. But it wouldn't be good for him to come back now with me being mopey and clingy. That's not healthy.
I really could be motivated by labug's comment. I DON'T want to be Plan B!
I really do have quite a bit of extra time, and I've been using it to mope, look for H's status on FaceBook and text my sister with my woes.
It's exciting to know I can make a Plan A! Now my brain is burning with ideas.
I could try a meetup group.
I could go to a concert, thank you v.754. The town where S18 will attend college this fall is only a 40 minute drive. I would have some connection there since he is accepted. We've been driving there for music lessons every week for five years for S18. University towns typically have lots of live music options.
I have a passion for flowers. I kind of got distracted by feeling like we "should have" a vegetable garden since we are homeschoolers. But my heart wasn't in it so the garden is overgrown. I really want to grow bulbs. And I'd love to landscape our yard with bulbs. That is something that I've taken an interest in now that he's gone.
And I actually liked the cake decorating part -- just not a good networking activity. I actually thought I might like to take all the Wilton classes offered in this area and considered making a small business.
About church. We are in the Bible belt and most people's social activities here revolve around church. H and I were not churchgoers when we met & married. We joined later and he got out first & I examined myself and was then in a hurry to get out. I feel burned by our church and am not in a hurry to get back to any church any time soon. I'd like to be in touch with a spiritual side of me, but I have LOVED not being in church!
S12 raises chickens and sells eggs for a business. I wanted my own 2 or 3 hens with the turquoise eggs like Martha Stewart's. I know, I know you are probably laughing but he's had chickens (brown eggs) for years and S12 has so many customers I have to buy my eggs at the store. So I thought I'd like to build a cute coop of my own with a couple of my own hens.
And yes, labug, I ride my bike also twice a week 8 miles and have an exercise program I like. NOT H's idea. I'm on "bikini ready workout" Lol!
So lots of ideas. Next, I guess I need to sit down and start planning my weeks. Not just saying I'd like to do this or that. Make calls, appointments, shop for clothes, shoes, yes!
I was worried how to GAL because I didn't want to do just what H is doing, although I do like his activities. This would be MY life! And a good one too!
I live in a college town and am planning to buy 2 seats for either the Theatre Company or the Presents series from the U and I can invite whomever I like to the productions.
Paying that much money is great motivation to attend!
And yes, planning is key.
LostIn407, just wanted to say thanks for posting. It s so painful to consider their activities and they are choosing to do them without us.
I am hoping that valuing and planning my own activities, will help me to appreciate what he is doing, as would a friend.
Like he is going golfing with his friends on Saturday and having a party at HP Saturday night to watch Caddyshack. I complimented him on the clever choice of movie with the golf theme. (this is after I came to my senses, lol) he said he didn't know if other people would think it as clever as I did.
Whenever I ask him how he is he sounds forlorn or confused. He's definitely not happy, in his soul.
And labug, I'm 2/3 of the way through Laura Munson's book and absolutely LOVE it! Thanks so much! And great idea about live theater. Theres lots of that in the city.
Would like to use DB coach but can't right now. Maybe soon. It's so expensive and we get 8 counseling sessions for free through H's work plan. I'm afraid to go locally. I went to one three months ago & never went back. His suggestion was to surprise H in a bar, dressed to the nines, and pretend I didn't know him. And other ridiculous ideas.
I just finished Laura Munson's book this morning. I want to reread it again right away, this time pausing and digesting some of the parts more slowly.
I sent her an email, briefly outlining my situation and thanking her so much for sharing her book. I was thrilled that she emailed me back! Her advice is just like what posters here advsie: the commitment is to take care of myself, get out of his way, and do the things I love. Good advice.
I feel good going into this weekend. Not because of the day I won't see him or because the day I will see him. But because I have a plan! A plan for my life!
There are many tidbits in her book I want to keep, and one of them is....when you need to focus...pick a word full of meaning and say it over and over. Like a mantra. She said she has used many different words over the years. I've picked one and will use it this weekend when my emotions don't want to be controlled.
Beauty.
Glad to hear you liked it! Her book is going on my list to read. I just went back and re-read her New York Times article last night, summarizing her experience. It kind of made me wish I had started saying to H "I don't buy it" whenever he started spewing crap! I'm not sure it works as well if H has already filed for D....
I like the idea of picking a mantra, though. I'm going to have to think of a good one.
PS I think the chicken coop idea is great!
I say cactus. It's a funny word and a funny looking thing, and I say it in my head when my emotions are threatening to overwhelm me. It's gotten me through negotiations that weren't going the way I wanted them to, and much more. It's not what most people would call a mantra, but it works for me to snap my head out of a painful situation and into a memory of the desert and the cacti.
I think I would like to read that book too.
Thanks, v754. I know what you mean about wishing we could have known different things to say. I feel the same way, of course, about DR. I can only hope now, that I'm doing/saying things that in the future, I'll look back and realize it was the right thing at this time!
Cactus. Yes, I think anything that gets you out of the here and now to a better place in your mind works. The desert can be so beautiful!
On a cheery note, I currently have H's manual transmission convertible with a beast of an engine pulsing beneath the hood. I took it out in beautiful weather yesterday with the top down for errands while I was wearing a billowy summer dress.
I had a lot of fun driving it and got a LOT of attention including some young kid with a souped up car wanting to race me at a stoplight. Hilarious! I think when you are the LBS it's great to soak up some attention! I really needed that!
I had a rough day yesterday. Crying a lot. Feeling depressed. Imagining H doing bad things. Picturing H asking me for a D. I took H's car out for a spin in the afternoon hoping I would feel better. I wished I could drive for hours but I had to get back to the boys.
I asked the boys if they wanted to go to a pretty, trendy spot in the city with me last night to see S18's guitar teacher play in a gig by a canal, but they said another time. I didn't feel like going alone & wanted to get up early this morning for a LONG bike ride.
I saw an interesting quote about worry just before bed: Don't worry about the future because if the thing you're afraid of really happens, you've worried twice.
And if it doesn't, you've worried in vain.
I also watched Laura Munson on YouTube talk about empowerment. I tried to let the concept, sink in, of me being in control of what I could actually change. I snuggled down in bed and wiggled my toes and considered the concept that I could actually be as powerful as the most powerful person in the world -- if I can control the things in my life that I can actually change. Namely, me!
So, I slept peacefully despite thunderstorms. I dreamed I was in the middle of a murder mystery. I wondered, when I woke up, if the dead body in my dream was my old, worrying self! Wouldn't that be wonderful?
H comes by for lunch today and afternoon, probably with fun pool activities again. I mentioned there was a live Latin American folk concert in the park tonight. He wants to go with me if it doesn't rain.
I read in advice on this forum to mention you are doing X activity but don't invite them. H always assumes if I mention an activity he is going with me. I guess that's the way we have always done it. Hard to get out of that habit and I'm, of course, happy to have him do it with me.
Could you try not mentioning your plans to H, just once? It is good that he wants to go with you, though, but it might be nice to break your pattern - for you.
H always assumes if I mention an activity he is going with me.
That's great if it goes both ways.
And is playing pool what you would choose to do with H? If not, suggest another activity.
V.754. I think I'll try that. Maybe doing it on a night when I know H is already committing to another activity might be easier to start with. I almost went last night to the gig alone, but I really wanted to do the bike ride this morning. And I went 13.85 miles. A personal best for me.
Labug, actually I mean pool activities as in splashing around in our own pool. We always have had a lot of fun doing that both together and with one or both boys.
And did you mean about going both ways--if he mentions an activity I assume I'm going with him?
I'm feeling really good about how I look now with the "bikini ready" workout and some sun from doing yard work and zipping around in H's convertible with top down and sleeveless attire. I gained 4 pounds since May (need to gain some more)
I like it too because H can't bring his phone in the pool with him! Lol!
Ohh that kind of pool, my mind went back to your other post about the tearful night playing 8-ball or whatever.
And did you mean about going both ways--if he mentions an activity I assume I'm going with him?
Yes, why does he get to assume that he's always invited to your activities but he doesn't invite you to his? (excuse the grammar)
Hope you have a great day in the pool!
Labug, the remoteness of our location is one of the things H wanted to "recreate" a sense of his childhood for our boys. Dirt biking, mountain biking, wildlife, campouts, domestic animals, garden, you name it! We've been here 9 years. H has a federal job on the edge of the city with a 45 minute drive from here.
Now he is in his (happen at any time of life) crisis, it is one of the things he detests about our home. Hence, he has to live in the city. He said he "likes to visit". I guess like a park or something.
What's that about?
I was a city girl, but always loved nature and H grew up in the country. When we came out here, it was rough for a for me for a while. I remember when we had been here just two weeks H said "are you going to make it?" So many fears. Learning to live with black widow spiders and not being able to find your children sometimes when they are outside.
But I've learned to love it.
I have a lot of resentment of H for leaving us like this. Not like he doesn't come to help, but I feel so much responsibility on my shoulders.
I wonder if that resentment is hindering me in dealing with him emotionally. Do I go into the "poor me" attitude too quickly?
Is that something I need to address in myself? Or is it just something that "is"? Doesn't everyone on here have resentment for their own situation? Maybe just recognize it and try to not let it get in the way?
Now he is in his (happen at any time of life) crisis, it is one of the things he detests about our home. Hence, he has to live in the city. He said he "likes to visit". I guess like a park or something.
What's that about?
I think you know the answer to that.
I have a lot of resentment of H for leaving us like this. Not like he doesn't come to help, but I feel so much responsibility on my shoulders
Is it resentment of anger? Have you admitted to yourself that you are angry about your sitch?
Working through that and figuring out how to deal with it may help you with getting out of the victim role.
What are you really angry about?
Ya, bug, I'm really angry mostly at the church. I was raised in a --wouldn't want to say "cultish" church. But now I've said it. I had left it and was out of it when H & I married. A few months after we married I was attracted back to it.
H liked a lot of things in it so we both were baptized together. In the quest for perfection we joined an elitist group within the church.
Years went by, we discarded a lot of friends and worldly practices to be more holy. He became disillusioned first, then me.
Now our lifestyle reflect these practices. There are a lot of positives about it -- well disciplined, well mannered children. Healthy living. Good values.
But I'm more angry at myself than him. And angry at the church.
So....I have to forgive myself first.
We are kinda stuck now at this stage of life without the golden friendships we both so desire. I think it explains a lot of his behavior, but I don't know how to reverse where we are. Our boys are dedicated Christians, just like we taught them. But H & I have no desire for it at this time.
I told him I would have stayed if he stayed....for a while anyway. I'm much happier being out. But our boys are so committed. It makes a divided household. I think it's why H doesn't want to come back.
And I don't know what to do about it.
Separately, H cane out of his castle for a few hours yesterday and picnicked with the family. Then he went back in.
Okay, since I went where angels fear to tread....let me explain a little. I know that many people here on this forum have a strong faith in God, and I admire that.
H & I got into a narrow minded sect that concentrated on holy living rather than holy loving. The rules for practical life in dressing, eating, time management, etc. were unbelievably strict. Like H told me last year, the program we did looked like it was designed to choke out any romance we had. And it did.
H & I are both compulsive so we did the very best we could.
Sadly, neither H nor I desire a relationship with God right now. I look at people that have a strong faith and think it would be great if I had it, but I don't desire it now. Sort of like I suspect, H feels about me right now.
Separately, H peeked out of his castle last night and saw me picnicking on the lawn happily. I don't know if he went back in yet or not.
I love that analogy--it helps me when I'm tempted to think everything is different just because he acted nice to me. It just means--he acted nice to me.
I think religion is a very personal thing, it's fine for people who want it.
Why are you angry at the church?
I guess because, in my mind, I blame them for the demise of my M. Do we all have that? If I hadn't done (or we hadn't done) XYZ I wouldnt be in this situation?
I know it's irrational. I know now this happens to lots of people whether they are spiritual or not. But there was so much conflict in our home over religion, that emotionally I've tied it to that.
I guess it's time to get rid of that idea.
Is it an important thing to do to identify why this sitch happened? Or is it more important to just concentrate on what is working now?
I think it's important to identify it if you thinks it's something you can change/need to change in you.
I'm wondering if you're really angry at the church or are you angry at yourself and your decisions? What can you change about that? I know you can't go back and "fix" things (although many of us would like to) but it was your decision that got you to the church, it was your decision to stay and your decision to leave, finally.
I'm wondering if you're really angry at the church or are you angry at yourself and your decisions? What can you change about that? I know you can't go back and "fix" things (although many of us would like to) but it was your decision that got you to the church, it was your decision to stay and your decision to leave, finally.
RH, labug is giving you some good advice here. You need to really figure out the anger thing. It will more than likely help you in the long run, and may give you a different outlook on your sitch.
Definitely myself!
Hard to know what to do. I can forgive myself and can identify how I want to live my life, without H if need be, but S18 is firmly grounded in his faith. The university he'll attend this fall is a huge liberal state university. Should be interesting. S12 has his own personal faith which I greatly admire and respect.
Probably the biggest day-to-day problems are a lack of freedom in our own home. How can I put it? We live in a geodesic dome home so the structure of it doesn't lend itself to much privacy. It's cute, but limited.
There is a huge issue of what is right or wrong to do on the "day of rest". I taught the boys to respect it, so it feels strange to violate it in front if them.
There are issues with choice of music, food, drinking alcohol. My H & I are back to the way we did things when we first M but in between we taught these boys different things. I feel really caught in the middle.
H & I do activities the way I would like to do them, but when I'm alone with the boys I can "pretend" the other way because I don't want to let them down and destroy their trust in me. Sniff, sniff.
Do you think this is an issue for (the right) IC not this forum?
I brought it up with the (not right) IC I saw the one time three months ago. Religion is such an emotionally charged issue. He didn't "get" the problem at all. He just told me to find another church and suggested one and told me about his own faith. These interfamily dynamics were so lost on him.
I feel lost myself. Any suggestions?
I think first and foremost you have to be honest with yourself and honest with your sons.
It sounds like there are several issues that fall outside the DB realm. I wouldn't be where I am without my IC but it does take work to find the right one.
I live in a small house, I love it but it is difficult with 3 adults living in it. I understand the lack of privacy. I have to go in my closet to talk on the phone.:)
Don't even get me started on small home. H and I live in a 2 bdr condo. Right after the bomb, the only place I could avoid him was the bedroom and the bathroom. LOL
I also think finding a good IC is the way for you to go right now. I think having someone to talk through the dynamics of your particular sitich is important.
Thanks labug. Seems so obvious but sometimes you really need someone to point it out for you.
Honesty.
Finding the right IC.
From the depth of feeling in my heart while typing these problems, I really need to talk to somebody. And not be afraid if the next IC isn't right either. Just like finding a doctor or other professional. I'll find the right one.
RR, thanks. H & I started in a 2BR condo which was great when everyone is getting along! But 20 acres isn't big enough when you aren't getting along! I really feel for you in tight quarters. My boys never, ever bother me about any emotional things. They want to stay out of it. I actually have a LOT of emotional privacy, considering all.
I already have a (counselor) lady's name that is paid for by H's work plan. I spoke to her once on the phone but the timing wasn't right.
It's right now. I can feel it in my bones. I'll call her this morning.