Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: vera be fierce The land of confusion - 04/27/12 11:54 PM
Hi everyone. I've been lurking for a few weeks and decided it was time to jump in. *Splash*

Doing this is a total 180 for me because I’m kind of an online privacy freak and the idea of putting this out there is, well, frightening. But I feel like I’ve gained so much already from reading about others’ stories that I should at least try.

H and I have been together for a little over 8. Married a little over 2.5. No kids, just one cat. Throughout our R I struggled with self-esteem issues. I had an issue with never resolving feelings over past online (virtual) PAs he had with multiple OW about 6-7 years ago. We sort of tried to work through it but really more swept it under the rug. I'm currently reading "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" and the downward cycling of fear and shame pretty much encapsulates our dynamic after this point.

Around the time I was finishing grad school (buried myself in work to get through, thinking that time would make it better), H said he'd been thinking of moving out. We promised to work on things, etc. etc. We did work on some things, and it did get better. Better enough that a year later we'd agreed to get married, buy a house, and plan for the next 7-70 years.

Mixed in this was a longterm chronic illness of mine. It made it hard to live a normal life but we tried really hard. Two years ago, I found a treatment that resolved 90% of my problems. First it was amazing - I had real emotions again! I could make plans to do things more than 2 hours out! But then it came crashing down - I questioned everything - my career, my M, my H, every decision I'd made since I'd been ill. Unfortunately this threw me into a full-blown MLC/WAW phase.

Reading a lot of the MLC/WAS stories on here, I almost can't believe how closely it fits with what I was feeling at the tender age of 30. However, although I never said I wanted a D, I said something terrible like it was an option on the table. My poor H went into a tailspin. We started MC and each did our own IC.

We worked really hard on some things, and really worked through my issues over his past infidelity. I think MC was really helpful on that. However, as it wore on (we went every other week-ish for nearly 18 months), it turned more into blaming, psychoanalyzing, wallowing in bad emotions, and trying to get the other person to see the "right way" rather than finding SOLUTIONS to fix our issues. I really think it just made our situation WORSE after a time. Around 6 months ago, H said he'd had thoughts about ending the M. After this, I really started working hard to fix some things about myself. I was kind of doing some DB'ing without realizing it. I felt like things had gotten a lot better but I think a part of me was just waiting him for say that he'd decided to end it. He even agreed that things were getting better.

About a month ago, we sat down for a talk (part of our weekly MC homework on expressing our feelings, which neither of us were great at). He said he'd been planning to say he wanted a D (didn't actually say he wanted it then, just that he had been planning on saying it). I went into some kind of sad hurt rage, ripped off my ring in a "is this what you want?" moment. He didn't say no, so I left it off. We had MC the next day. He said he didn't know where we stood (referring to my ring being off). After some questioning about at what point our M would be considered over, he admitted he didn't want to work on the R anymore because it was too much work. He said he felt like he worked hard on it before and *even though things had been getting better* he was tired of working on it. One of his concerns was that the changes wouldn't be permanent and that someday in the future I might wake up again and have another crisis. A lot of what he says sounds like the familiar MLC (not happy, not sure what would make him happy, pretty sure the M won't make him happy, needs adventure, etc. etc.) triggered by my own.

I went into full LBS mode. Thankfully, I came across this site and MWD's books that weekend and started devouring them. The detaching method has saved my sanity, but it's still hard and there are definitely down minutes, hours, and days. I've also had a consult with a DB coach.

He still wants to be "friends." More on that to come.
Posted By: Cadet Re: The land of confusion - 04/29/12 05:38 PM
Welcome to the board.

That book is excellent, you are on the right track.

He is asking for SPACE, give it to him.
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what he say and half of what he does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 04/30/12 11:56 PM
Thanks, Cadet. I've seen your wise words on many other threads but it is nice to see them again on mine.

Coming to have no expectations has been really freeing. This was something I had been working on in my personal life before the bomb but it's really been like pulling my head out of the sand with relation to my M. I feel so much more like MYSELF and it's nice that I seem to be much nicer than I'd been the past so many years!

I have been working on my GAL (reacquainting with long-lost friends, mostly) and it's been doubly enriching since this is something I have been working on since getting better after my illness. I have definitely been keeping up my health (have gained back the divorce diet weight) and going to the gym a lot. H even asked to see my stomach last night when I was doing some yoga and noted that I looked slimmer. (Hey, he's looking I guess!).

Getting my hair cut tomorrow for the first time in a few months... might be time to mix it up a little smile
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/01/12 12:07 AM
One of the biggest sources of my confusion/hope with H and his decision is that, as of this past weekend (nearly a month after the bomb), he had still not told his parents or anyone in his family about his decision. (He's 28). He's had the opportunity to, he just . . . hasn't. He asked if I'd told my parents (which I had, the night of the bomb) and asked if they hated him. I told him they didn't (they don't). It'll be interesting to see what happens when he finally does tell them.

We're still living together, and acting as pretty great friends. Per my DB coach's advice, I'm trying to work on a) being a great friend and b) remembering to show my flirty side more often. It's a little dusty, but it seems like it's been coming out a little more as I remember what it was like to be my own person!

One of my 180's is to be more open/less rigid with planning things out on my weekends. Last weekend he wanted to go visit his grandfather and asked me on short notice. I had time so I agreed. We went and had a lovely visit (his grandfather is fond of me and I really don't see him often enough).

H seems confused that I'm not really a wreck like I was the first night after the bomb. Last weekend he wanted to "talk" again and said his feelings hadn't changed. Then he kept asking if I was okay. I said I was fine.

Sometimes I don't feel fine, but a lot of times I do. It's getting better.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/01/12 12:14 AM
We had already planned a vacation that was to take place 2 weeks after the bomb (and one of our friends was going with us). I used it to really put my DB'ing in effect, working on being a great friend. I don't really feel like it's an act so much anymore, but when it feels like it is I put on my "as if" hat.

I had a chuckle when H asked whether we should drive or walk somewhere. I said let's walk. His eyebrows shot up and his head jerked back, and he admitted that he thought I'd argue and insist that we drive. I played it cool and said it was nice out - why drive! Heh.

The vacation was fine. Great, even. It was a place where we didn't have to hang out together all the time if we didn't want to, but could if we wanted to, and we also got in some national park time (one of the things he says life is missing is more time in nature). I made sure to grab his hand a few times going through crowds. He didn't drop it, so I take that to mean I'm not repulsive. Baby steps. smile He also complimented my restaurant choices and the places I had chosen to stop in the national park.

Our poor friend seemed really confused but was a great sport. She couldn't believe what was going on given how well it seemed like we were getting along. I welcomed her to the confusion that is my life smile
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/01/12 12:17 AM
Alright, last post for a bit while I wait for these to pop out of the moderation cloud, as I'm starting to lose track of where I am.

One of the things I have noticed recently is that, since I started DB'ing hardcore, my H will sometimes bend over backwards to help out on something. It's kind of odd. But I really feel like we haven't gotten along this well in years. He's also exaggeratedly complimentary of my cooking and will make grandiose proclamations if something smells good. I guess this means I best keep up the cooking!

That said his feelings "haven't changed" and he still wants a D. I told him over the weekend that I didn't want it and I wasn't going to help him do it. I'm usually the one that takes charge on research and planning so he'll have to see what that's like if he wants this done.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/04/12 03:14 PM
It seems like my posts are getting delayed by a few days during moderation. Any thoughts?
Posted By: Maggie3 Re: The land of confusion - 05/09/12 12:24 AM
Just reading your situation Verab. If it were me I would not bring up the R at all. When my H was still living at home my big mistake was talking about it every night and being sad, weepy all the time, or screaming and pleading. I didn't find MWD for over 3 months- not until I had already made it a million times worse and pushed him out the door. Sounds like you are doing something right.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/09/12 03:45 AM
Hi Maggie, thanks for stopping by. Just to clarify, I never bring up R matters now. H initiated the last talk. I didn't say much except that I didn't agree that D was the best option and let him say that he would have to do it by himself because I wasn't going to assist. I feel like I've been doing pretty well maintaining PMA inwardly and outwardly, and, during that talk, H actually asked repeatedly if I was okay. I just said "I'm fine."

We went out for dinner Sunday (his idea). It was nice. Things seem lighter and we're able to joke and laugh more than we had been in awhile. Once we got home, he asked whether he still needed life insurance (i.e. why would he with no M and no house). One step forward, two steps back.

Recently I've noticed that he'll start asking who/what/when/where questions if I indicate that I'm going somewhere but don't volunteer any more information.

Last week he offered to and followed through to cook one of my favorite meals. I made sure to thank and compliment him on it. We are thanking each other a lot more for doing things generally or around the house. One of my 180's was to really try to be positive (as opposed to neutral or neutral-but-appearing-negative) in our interactions. Sometimes I have to really stop myself because my first instinct response is to be negative. It's coming along.

Part of my GAL (that has been going on for awhile, pre-bomb) is trying to get into running. I hit a personal best over the weekend. H gave me a high-five. *facepalm*
Posted By: Maggie3 Re: The land of confusion - 05/09/12 12:50 PM
I wonder if you could set a boundary around talking about the M. Like, once a week you meet and leave the house and go somewhere to talk. That way you don't get caught off guard with R talk.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/09/12 01:16 PM
My DB coach recommended not talking about the R at all. H only wanted to talk about it in terms of logistics for the D. Right after the bomb I was reeling and said we needed to figure out a timeline to sell the house, etc. Two days later I backed off and said it felt too rushed (he'd brought a pen and paper to that meeting to write down the proposed timeline). The next talk (the one I mentioned above), he was asking if, by me not agreeing to the D, I was going to make it "difficult" or "complicated." I said that was not my intention.

Whenever he tries to bring up something D-related, I usually give a short answer and change the subject to something else (that was hard at first because I'm kind of a slow thinker on my feet but it's gotten easier as I keep myself busier).
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/09/12 01:20 PM
H is a planner by nature. He got thrown off when I felt like I didn't know what I wanted for the future anymore because we'd had a plan, and then we no longer had a plan. His new plan is D. Sometimes it feels kind of impossible to derail that plan. (That said we already have plans to do at least 3 things together in June. Why would he bother making together plans if his plan is to D?)
Posted By: ces67 Re: The land of confusion - 05/10/12 12:30 PM
Hi V, sounds like you are making some good steps with the DB and creating a better environment between you and your H.

How do you feel about your 180s? Do they feel like they are becoming part of you or do they feel more like tactics? No right or wrong answer, just a way to evaluate.

Since you're a cook, got any good blue cheese topping recipes for steak? I'm cooking for mothers day.....
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/10/12 01:29 PM
Thanks ces. I am definitely doing the 180's for myself. I think I mentioned above that I had actually been doing some of them pre-bomb, once I got my health back in line. I feel like I've been able to reconnect a lot with the me that I remember liking 10 or so years ago (before the illness) that other people seemed to like, too! I can't lie and say that I hadn't wondered if any of them would make H think differently but these are for me. Even my IC commented recently that I seemed "lighter."

Unfortunately for you, I am not a fan of blue cheese, so I don't have anything helpful to offer on that front, sorry! smile
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/10/12 10:42 PM
popped over to your thread for a read.

First I can't imagine what you must have gone through having an illness like that. Really glad your health is getting sorted. It sounds like you're really taking care of yourself with the running and yoga. Good job!

I think you are doing all the right things. Like the others have said I wish I'd found this board the same day I had my change of heart before I acted like the mayor of crazy town.

I know what it means to be a planner. I had researched all about divorce and timelines etc. Before we can D, he has to sort out a visa to allow him to stay in the country we live. I know he's started paperwork on that and was eligible to apply 1 April. Since I had that Change of Heart neither one of us has brought up that visa or filing for divorce. I'm just leaving it. That's what you should do. Don't initiate any convo about it. If he (of my H) brings it up then we shouldn't try to block or stop it but I'm not trying to fast track that! When you're a planner anything to plan will fill that need. Let him start planning something else and you'll be fine!

Keep us updated. I have a lot of hope for your sitch!
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/10/12 10:59 PM
Thanks, Brit. Just trying to take things day by day.

"Mayor of Crazytown" - ain't that the truth!

I am definitely leaving things (even though it kind of irritates me to not be in on whatever the "plan" is - plans are my security blanket, too) and not bringing up or questioning where he is in the process. A few days post bomb, when I was still trying to cling to my logistics security blanket, and we had a R/D talk, he looked like he'd gotten slapped in the face when I mentioned how much a D could cost, and said "can't we do this without lawyers?" Uh, I can't tell you what to do, buddy. He really did not seem have any clue at that point what the D process would involve (other than selling the house and being D'd) so I feel like that was kind of a point on the side of hopefulness that led me to the DB process.

Anyway, my plan for the weekend is to finalize a plan for a short, near-future solo trip to an out-of-country, tropical island destination. Total GAL/180 for me (I never do anything by myself unless it's going somewhere in the tri-state area, never been out of the country by myself, etc.). I just have to get up the guts to do it! smile Eek!
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/11/12 04:30 PM
Today I'm struggling a little bit to keep my frame of mind on us as flirty friends. H is extending a work trip to a new city to do some sightseeing. When M was going well, I probably would have tagged along. When he first told me about the trip, I inwardly bristled.* But, would I be mad that a friend is going to a new place? No, I'd say how cool it was and be genuinely happy and excited for them.

Today in the mail came an invitation for what can only be his best friend's engagement party. It was only addressed to H. That kind of hurt. But would I be mad if we were just friends and he got an envelope addressed just to him? No. Will I be mad if my friend doesn't invite me to the party? No.

I did get a nice, chipper email from H this morning, also asking about how my weekend was looking. I responded in an equally chipper manner (I think). Feeling under the weather (everyone at work is sick) so I'm going to get some rest and not be disappointed if I don't get a relpy to my email for awhile.

* - Part of what got me on this was that he has now twice talked about some travel plans he has to X or Y, and I say, what trip to X or Y, and he's like, oh, I didn't tell you about X or Y??? No, because you're not talking to me about that stuff. Sigh.
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/13/12 06:39 PM
That's really great work. It's so easy to over think it and then when you put it in that context of a friend it's really easy.

keep up the good work.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/15/12 02:15 AM
Thanks, Brit. It would be easier if it were easy to do, if you know what I mean. wink

H returned from his long work trip yesterday. He had texted a bunch while he was gone and sent some pictures from there of funny things, and we kept our normal emailing funny things back and forth routine (Good). We still hadn't really talked on the phone since before the bomb (Not great). Well, right before his return flight, he called (Great). He was kind of asking about a family member who had come through town but also a little bit chatty about the flight (Okay?).

He got home fairly late, while I was getting ready for bed and came right up to the bathroom as I was drying my hair (Good?). He looked like a wreck, wasn't feeling well (Not good). He stayed in the room and chatted a bit about the flight and the trip (Good). He ran downstairs to get me a small present (Great - he used to do this all the time but had stopped awhile back - first one of these in awhile). I thanked him but tried not to be overly enthusiastic (Good, I think). He plopped down on what was his side of the bed in the bedroom and chatted more about the trip while I was getting my stuff together for work (Great?). He was going to stay up later than me (time change) and asked about food, so I pointed out some leftovers in the fridge for him (Neutral). Some jokes were exchanged (Good). He mentioned having received the friend's engagement party invitation (that left me off the address label). I said something like "oh yeah?" and left it at that. He didn't indicate that he would like me to go or anything so I just listened to what he had to say and then went on with other things (DB Good, I think). I went to bed.

Today we texted and chatted online a little more than usual (Good). He accidentally called me in the morning ("hit the wrong speed dial"). He called again later about something far out on the calendar that we'd both talked about doing in general terms (Really?). That second time he called I made a joke about the first time he called and we had a good laugh (Good).

He offered to drive to the grocery store after work, and I accepted (Good). Had some good chats (Good). On the way home he said "Just so you know, I'm not renewing my life insurance policy at the full amount." (OBVIOUSLY NOT GOOD.). I acknowledged it then tried to brush it off with a joke and changed the subject (DB Good). I made dinner, which he said was really good (Good). Then I made cookies, which he claimed prevented him from going to bed early (because he would have to eat some) (Good?).

So, positives on the little stuff, but an F on the one matter pertaining to our intertwined financial life. It's not a huge deal, just life insurance, not like he said "I got a realtor for the house" or anything but it was still a little dagger. I guess it's timely since it had to be renewed either way this week, but still. Grr.

I'm having a hard time between the idea of not agreeing to do everything together that he suggests and being the flirty friend who's up for whatever. I guess it's more of me needing to have extra GAL activities already planned that don't include him so I have a reason to decline some of his suggestions. I need a personal assistant to get my social life in order smile
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/15/12 11:20 PM
Well, 1 step forward, 100 steps back. H informed me ("Just so you know...") while we were making dinner tonight that he has an appointment tomorrow to meet with an attorney. Apparently he tried to contact the county to see if he could get "the standard forms" and was told there aren't any, so he needs an attorney. Then went on to talk about normal stuff. He's now been cleaning the kitchen for at least 20 minutes. Guilt? I don't know. All I could think about during dinner was how we're going to have to split up all of the kitchen stuff. Ugh.

Going to call tomorrow to make another coaching appointment. I need the pick-me-up.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/16/12 12:31 AM
I'm sick now, too, which is putting a damper on my ability to GAL and keep going to the gym. Argh. I would like to plan my tropical vacation but I feel like I need the money for my inevitable lawyer bill.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/16/12 12:32 AM
Also MIL did not respond to my happy mother's day text. I guess he told them.
Posted By: scaredsilly Re: The land of confusion - 05/16/12 01:04 AM
wouldn't it be nice if she could still say, "thank you"? you've been together 8 years...
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/16/12 01:30 AM
Yeah, it would, but I'm not going to hold it against her. Maybe she felt it was awkward, I don't know. Again, I don't know if they know.
Posted By: Truegritter Re: The land of confusion - 05/16/12 03:15 AM
They will side with their child.

If they don't then it will do you no good no how.

so don't count on it.

Take the road of honor, grace and courage.

Saying happy mother's day to MIL was that, so good for you.

Expecting something back is inviting heartache.

Speaking of inviting heartache what other expectations for you invite that feeling?

For a while you will feel that everything is a reflection of you. Best to take yourself out of that drama and don't invite it in.

We call that detachment. If you haven't read about it google it.

It is must-do step in your process...
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/16/12 12:00 PM
Thanks. I have been working a lot on detaching. I think I have detached in many ways from H but I had not thought about doing so from others in his life. I guess I wasn't really expecting a response from MIL but it was notable not to get one. However I guess I was not necessarily expecting that they would take his side, per se, but that is an interesting take on what happened and I will ponder that more.

In light of yesterday's events I guess I will be calling an L today.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/16/12 02:42 PM
Got my DB coaching session set up, not as soon as I would have liked but it's there so I can start gathering my thoughts.

I'm still struggling with how to respond to D-related logistic talking. I usually try to not react but acknowledge and then change the topic. H seems to think things are rolling along just dandy on the D-train. He has some friends who are young like him and D'd after not very long but remained friends. The difference is that neither of them wanted to get married but they couldn't talk about it ahead of time and went through with it anyway. That's not the situation here, but I think he could be modeling "our" future on that.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/16/12 03:07 PM
Note to self: Accuray's words seem apropos here. http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2245002#Post2245018

I saved it in my helpful thoughts file.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/16/12 06:33 PM
H is currently at his L consultation. He said he didn't want to be shady or hide things from me (very kind). He also said the only reason he's getting an L is because it would take an "inordinate amount of time" to do it without one. He promised to "share what he learned" after he gets back. He wanted to know if I planned to be okay with a no-fault D or if I was going to contest anything. I said I wasn't prepared to answer that right away. My consult is 2 weeks from now (he does not know my L status).

I just saw labug's "set them free" post. I have been trying to go with that mantra for a few weeks since I finshed DB and DR. I'm trying my best not to totally break down around him right now.

Any other advice on how to handle his conversations in the meantime?
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/17/12 04:29 PM
Managed to skirt the "conversation" last night by leaving the house after dinner. After I got home H was eager to show me his photos from the trip that he took last week. (?).

This morning he tried to pin me down on a time for "the conversation."

He is complaining a lot about his job. This isn't new. Last year he was more in a searching mode to find something new, and I encouraged that (maybe even pushed too much, asking him often if he'd followed up with a headhunter, telling him he "should" do that, etc.). He keeps talking/joking about finding a new job but I'm not sure how much he's looking right now. I'm trying to validate his feelings about not liking where he is right now and not offering any suggestions. We're getting along quite well at home now (cooked dinner last night together) and I feel like the job is causing more of his unhappiness than our R at this point, but I'm not mentioning it. Kind of sad to watch it happen, though.
Posted By: tinker Re: The land of confusion - 05/17/12 09:11 PM
Hey Vera, have just read your posts and am really sorry to read what you're going through - your H is behaving very similar to my H in the beginning - the majority of time he would be very pleasant and 'normal', but would then drop things in to the conversation to let me know that he hasn't changed his mind and is still proceeding with wanting me to move out. I eventually did, far too easily looking back, I wish I had stood my ground more (I didn't find this site until I had moved out). He even expected me to do the divorce because I am a family lawyer in the uk and so it's part of my every day job! (I drew the line at that!). I think we're also similar ages.

Keep following DB - it really does work. My H and I have been back and forth over the last year, culminating in a far too premature attempt at reconciliation that sent sent him plummeting backwards recently. I'm kicking myself because as soon as things were going ok, I forgot all about DB and began pushing.

I don't really have much advice, other than to say you're doing really well at not reacting-my biggest downfall, and to let you know it really can work.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/17/12 10:39 PM
Hi Tinker - Thanks for your insight. Like I said on your thread, I've been following your story and will continue to do so.

I'm keeping with DB because it has truly saved my sense of self as a human. Before I found it I was the stereotypical mess. Now I'm a mess less often, and more often than not able to be with my friends and truly laugh with them and be a better friend to them. At the same time I'm sad because I realize how alone I've felt for a long time, but I'm determined to have a functional, healthy relationship again in the future, with H or with someone else. I think my co-workers are astounded that I'm not just crying under my desk all day!

My DB coaching session tomorrow can't come fast enough.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/17/12 11:17 PM
Well, super. The "Conversation" was to let me know the D paperwork was filed today. He's on the bullet train to D-ville and there is no stopping this man! He actually asked if I could let him know when I will be around next week so that I can be served. HAHAHAHA!!! I guess that's why he wanted to know my travel schedule for next week.

It's more clear now that so much of what he's done recently to lead to my confusion has been out of guilt. So much for the flirty girlfriend routine.

I told him that I understood how he felt the way he did and that I did not want to stand in his way but that he should know it's a lot to throw away. He said "I know."

Well, [self-censored].
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/17/12 11:24 PM
I should note that there's only a 90-day "cooling off" period in my location.
Posted By: wishing, hoping Re: The land of confusion - 05/17/12 11:42 PM
(((V)))

I know exactly what you are going through. I have been there. I know it's hard but try not to panic. We are here for you.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/17/12 11:57 PM
Thanks WH.

I am trying to resist the urge to torch all of H's stuff right now. I asked myself if it would move me closer to or further from my goal and I can't decide wink
Posted By: sweetbabyred Re: The land of confusion - 05/17/12 11:58 PM
My state only has 60 days. I guess that's great for the couples who know they want to be divorced quickly, but for those of us who are DBing, it doesn't give us much time to make a difference. I know the filing will most likely come any day now, so I'm just trying to brace myself for it.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 12:09 AM
60 days! The state lawmakers should be ashamed!

Re-reading the 37 Rules right now. Trying to breathe deeply.

I'd give myself a B-minus for my response to the convo. I was making dinner at the time so at least I was doing something else. He kept asking my schedule and I said I didn't know it yet. Finally I said "Frankly, this is a little rushed for me, so I don't have an answer right now." He looked miffed.

I also want to clarify my earlier statement. The flirty girlfriend wasn't a routine. It was me being my (rusty) flirty self again. Maybe he got scared of that and decided to get out before he changed his mind again cool I think I'm going to be moving more toward the LRT now. Flirty girlfriend from afar. Way afar.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 01:47 AM
Just re-read the LRT portion of DR. Trying to practice sounding happy/content in my responses to him. Kind of struggling.

I'm also having a hard time squashing that voice in my head that thinks back to my own crisis of M identity and thinks "boy, you really got what you wished for." It's not quite true, I was definitely lost but I never totally gave up on the M. H is.
Posted By: jks Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 03:16 AM
Originally Posted By: verab754
Thanks WH.

I am trying to resist the urge to torch all of H's stuff right now. I asked myself if it would move me closer to or further from my goal and I can't decide wink


This seriously made me giggle! I am so sorry... what in the world are these men thinking? Hopefully your coaching session tomorrow can help you even more. Take care of yourself!
Posted By: LIO Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 08:03 AM
Ok I have to comment because of the Genesis song....which pops into my head every time I see your thread smile

Keep the flirty girlfriend routine. I think it's a good thing.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 10:44 AM
Heh, it was the first thing that popped into my head for a song title. When I went back later and re-read the lyrics I felt like it was more than appropriate. You know all the people in weird masks in the video? That's how I feel some days wink

I was actually able to get some sleep last night (not much, but some). That's I'm sure thanks to my DB knowledge. After the bomb in 3/12 I was just crying and shaking in bed all night (attractive, right??). My heart is still pounding a little but I should be able to make it to work today. Funny, H had a regular doctor's appointment on Tuesday before he went to the L and they put him on blood pressure medication. Wonder what that was from, hmmm?

I'm trying really hard to suppress the part of me that wants to be either a) totally vindictive and/or b) just completely ice cold, cutting him out entirely. In my past life I tended to cut out people who wronged me and just acted like they didn't exist. Mature, yeah? I know that's not healthy. It's just my instinct right now. Something for IC later.

Going to try to act today as if I don't want to throw the squirrel food right in the squirrel's face!

I think what really got to me this morning was that we are now legal adversaries, and that was his choice. That he said he wanted to not make things complicated or hurt me and that we should leave with what we brought and then casually mentioned that I'd be getting some interrogatories about financial stuff.... maybe the casual air for him was a defense mechanism. I don't know. I need to stop looking for even a shred of remorse. It's not going to happen.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 10:47 AM
Also, we already have tickets to two events coming up next month. One of them is a huge deal for me and I am definitely not giving up my ticket, but maybe something will suddenly come up for the other one.
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 04:09 PM
I just caught up on your thread. You are going through so much and still found the energy to give me support...thank you.

Quote:
I'm sad because I realize how alone I've felt for a long time,
That is so true. I think as once WAW we forget that we made this decision for a reason. We weren't happy!!

I can't offer any advice as to what to do at this point. However H and I lived as a couple minus affection (actually there were some cuddles right up to the time he moved out) until he left and that made it worse. I wish I hadn't been as helpful...cooking, laundry shopping, etc. The weekend he moved out I helped arrange his furniture. The only time I've been to his place. I feel stupid for making that way out the door that much easier. I wish I had known about the 37 rules and non pursuit then.

I'd be more detached...don't help him with that guilt
Posted By: RoRoinMD Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 04:21 PM
Hey verab! I think your coaching session will help you tremendously. My first one brought me back from the brink of insanity for real.

I know how it feels to want to torch something...believe me. But just continue to be your calm, cool, self. Think Zen, as in Zen verab!
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 04:42 PM
Thanks, folks. The coaching session countdown clock is ticking. I am reviewing threads and my personal offline journaling and just thinking over and over that he is acting "as if" he's a stubborn, impulsive, idiot fool.

Brit I know what you mean about living together and doing the household things together but not as a couple. Before my first DB session I asked him, why would you still want to (fold my laundry, offer to drive to grocery shop, watch TV together) and he said because it was "more efficient" that way.

So is fast-tracking the D, I guess.

Now that I look at my notes I can clearly see that anytime we had a positive (inviting me to dinner, making short-term daytrip plans for next month, making meals together, complimenting my cooking excessively), he followed it with a negative (my feelings haven't changed, I'm axing my life insurance policy, my friends can take our cat permanently, I'm seeing an L tomorrow "just so you know").

Deep breaths.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 07:49 PM
Phew. Okay. Good session today. Cheryl thought I had done a pretty good job overall since our last session (always nice to get those words of affirmation ;)).

I'm going to keep going as I had been until I get the papers, and then go more dark after getting them. Kind of a downgrade from best friend to wayyyy more casual friend. He seems to think we're going to stay BFF's after this. I can't do that and get on with my life. She did think that he's not acting nice or wanting to hang out out of guilt but is trying to smooth the transition to superfriendville.

Once he takes the action to serve the papers he'll have to see that's not going to play out the way he wants it to - he'll have to learn he doesn't have control over it (ain't that the nut!).

Til then, I guess I'll make a list of a few things that need to be fixed up around the house, because we can't sell it as-is. They need to be done either way, so we can work on them together.

Some of this flies so much against my instincts to shut down and get away. I get that my instincts are wrong and aren't moving me any closer to my goal - not of saving my M but of being a better person.

I feel 200% better after my session. Maybe I can get a full night's sleep tonight.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 07:51 PM
PS - Points to LIO for calling it - to keep on keeping on for now smile
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 07:52 PM
I'm so happy to hear that she gave you some good insight and that you feel good after the session!

Fingers crossed to your good night's sleep!
Posted By: RoRoinMD Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 08:00 PM
Cheryl is my coach too. She's great!

Glad she was able to help you put a plan into place. And you'll probably sleep like a baby tonight! :-)
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 08:11 PM
Thanks, ladies.

I was trying to think some new goals because some of my previous short-term small goals had already been reached (H would ask me to dinner; H would plan a small (day) trip for us further out; H would cook a nice meal for dinner that he knows I like) (yes these were recent). Some of my goals, I think, may look weird in light of the upcoming service of papers. Maybe not. I'm going to marinate on my session today and mull my goals over for the weekend.

At least I know one - stay calm, collected, and out of b*tch mode. smile
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 08:13 PM
I think at one point Cheryl was (briefly) speechless in response to describing how H positively has been interacting before pulling back and dropping the negatives. I was a little concerned I'd lost the connection! Now that I think about it, it makes me feel like I'm not in the wrong to be confused.
Posted By: Dory Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 10:48 PM
Yikes, verab!

I'm so sorry! Talk about mixed signals, no wonder you're confused!

It never ceases to amaze me about how easy it is to get a D in some states, the lack of wait period just seems to invite impulsive action. I guess I should be thankful that Canadian law requires a minimum 12 month separation before filing.

I'm sorry I don't have any advice, I just wanted to let you know that I feel for you.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/18/12 11:05 PM
Thanks, Dory.

GET THIS, I could not make this up if I tried. Just happened:

Chatting during dinner, H asked what my weekend plans were. I said, oh, I'll be out on Sat and getting a pedi on Sun (both true). He said, oh, I was thinking maybe we could do a day trip to the beach, it's supposed to be nice out.

??????????????????????????????????????????

Of course I come to you wise folks first wink

I can probably not do the pedi, as I would like to get to the beach. This seems like a great way to show the difference between pre-service and post-.

???????????????????????????????????????????
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/19/12 01:32 AM
Alright. Managed to diffuse the situation without bursting out into maniacal laughter. Weather isn't actually going to be quite as nice as advertised and I worked out a way to get some nature time locally without devoting a whole day to the trip and a long car ride with H.

Things seemed back to "normal" this evening.

Good grief!
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/20/12 03:15 AM
Wow, a lot of activity on the board tonight; I'm going to try to check in a few places.

Today was another generally "normal" day of interaction between H and I. Did some errands/household tasks together this morning (after he suggested going to the beach again). I was firm that I had afternoon plans that couldn't be changed so that wouldn't work for me. I didn't tell him what I was planning on doing. He ended up not doing much today but hanging around the house, but is now out clubbing (acting like he's 21 again). While we were making dinner tonight, after I got home, he spilled about his day in detail and then asked what I was doing. I was kind of general, but honest (out with friends).

Back when we were on our vacation after the H-bomb, he started saying thinks like, "Remember when we were in X and [Y happened]?" about past travels. He still does it and I do it occasionally but usually only if he does it first. At least he can still remember some of the good times and shared experiences, I guess. It happened a few times today. We still have some inside jokes that he brings up.

I feel like my situation is less like a roller coaster and more like the "whip" ride. I'm calmly going along until I get pulled quickly into a curve, have a little readjustment and then back along the calm side; repeat ad infinitum. I'm looking forward to the ride ending and walking out of the gate intact.

Tomorrow we have a quick nature activity planned for the morning. (Not getting enough "nature" was one of his big "missing pieces" he revealed in MC. Well, we live in a city, so it's certainly not going to come to him!)

We're also cooking a special meal tomorrow night. It'll be the last thing I do on the flirty friend level before I am served with papers.

I'm steeling myself a little bit for this week. I'm going to tell him I'll be available to receive the D papers Monday evening. That way I'll know when they are coming and he'll have a few days before he leaves for a work trip to see the difference in dynamics, including what I'm preparing as my non-reaction to getting them. When I think of the situation more, I find it hard to believe that the person who said I knew him best would be convinced by others to serve me with financial interrogatories.

Up to this point, he hasn't really gotten a great sense of the separation that would exist between us after D. He will see it soon.
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/20/12 08:47 AM
I really admire your strength I think will all that going on I might have said/done something rash.

If Cheryl says to continue activity until you get papers then do that.

I agree having been the person to first suggest divorce and now pull back, it should require a much longer cooling off period.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/20/12 03:13 PM
Thanks Brit. I'm kind of a slow thinker on my feet so I think that helps in terms of keeping my mouth shut because I literally can't think of anything to say sometimes.

H is excited for dinner tonight and asked when we might try a new recipe that I had sitting on the dining room table. Um, maybe if you call off the D? cool
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/20/12 03:49 PM
He was also out until 5am last night. Classy!

I know because I was awake around that time and heard him come in. The thought that someone could be advising him to try to get money out of me (hilarious, I have a ton of student loan debt) was gnawing at the back of my mind. I know that he wants to sail through this D uncontested but the cooling off time is so short. If I contest anything, it's a little bit longer but could involve hearings and, consequently, more $$$ on lawyers. I don't have a ton of savings and $ is always a big stressor for me. His family has a lot of money so they could be in a position to help him out.

This process svcks. But I'm getting to the point where I have a lot of reasons why I'd be okay with a D - I have been working on defining my requirements for an R/M, and alien-abducted H doesn't seem capable of meeting many of those right now.

Any advice for forgiving a WAS who pushes through with D despite the financial and emotional cost? The $$ really hurts to think about right now because I'm just getting to a point in my career where I'm comfortable and have the resources to spend on enjoyable things (like actual vacations that don't involve hanging out at my parents' house).
Posted By: RoRoinMD Re: The land of confusion - 05/20/12 04:05 PM
Verab, I don't have any real advice for you as H hasn't filed anything. Just wanted to say that it sounds like you have a good plan. And that it s*cks that your H wants to push through the D so fast. I think he does need to see how the dynamics change.
Posted By: jks Re: The land of confusion - 05/20/12 08:54 PM
I'm just as confused as you are by your H's actions. There really is no way for him to know how its going to feel being separated until you actually do it. Seems like there might be some other force pulling him to do this. But who knows what that is...???

In the mean time, it's like you just have to be ok with it. And that is the hardest part in all this confusion. The biggest thing that brings me comfort is knowing that I'm trying to continue to do things that I know are right. And I always believe good will prevail. Whether it be now or later, it will prevail.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/21/12 12:48 AM
Originally Posted By: jks
The biggest thing that brings me comfort is knowing that I'm trying to continue to do things that I know are right. And I always believe good will prevail. Whether it be now or later, it will prevail.


Thanks. I needed to hear this.

This evening I have been very irritated, angry, and resentful. We had a great dinner. And now I feel like the time to transition is upon us.

H sent me about 10 emails while I was out for 3 hours this afternoon (Before dinner). Most of them were responding to things I had sent to him about a month ago.

One of them was about upgrading the security system in the house. One of the options in that email was to do something that would not be feasible with the cat in the house, as he mentioned it. (Why bother mentioning it if you've already made arrangements for your friends to take the cat permanently?). When I asked him to clarify two of the other options, he explained it and then indicated that we would need to consider whether it would be worth the cost if we're going to sell the house anyway. I pointed out that until the house is sold, people who could benefit from the upgrades would still be living in the house. He wants to get it on the market very, very soon so that we can hit the "peak" of the market. I told him I hadn't had time to consider my options. He seemed to be confused by this. He plans to fix all of the cosmetic issues in the house two weeks from now when he has a week off from work. I still feel incredibly rushed. My L consultation isn't for another week and a half. I might see if I can move it up to this week.

I think I'm going to lose my mind. I'm cooling off starting right now for me.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/21/12 02:36 AM
Any thoughts on when it would be appropriate to reach out to H's family to say "goodbye"? Not with that word, but just a note thanking various people for their kindness and love over the years and wishing them well in the future.

I'm reaching out to a few more friends to let them know what is going on. Not details, just generally. It's time for me to move into fuller acceptance and admit
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/21/12 02:37 AM
oops, hit post too soon ...

^^...and admit to what is going on. I told H when I'd be around to receive the papers. Apparently the 90 days started running from the date he filed. The countdown is on.
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/21/12 09:25 AM
I think that people do all the logical things not to have to deal with the emotional things. When all the house repairs, the filing, everything is done he will be left with a lot of time on his hands and be forced to think.

This doesn't help you. Perhaps you need to detach sooner. For me there is nothing worse than doing something: cooking dinner, running errands, etc for someone and getting a constant reminder that they don't want to be with me. You don't have to say I'm not cooking or eating dinner with you anymore, but maybe you're out with friends for dinner or at someone else's house. maybe you have a quick dinner and then go to an exercise class. Just do something to where you're not living as a unit anymore.
(sheesh I'm giving you guys tips on what H did to me before he moved out...but hey it worked I'm here)
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/21/12 11:11 AM
Thanks Brit. I am planning on increasing my unpredictability. I'm kind of glad that H leaves for a work trip mid-week. It'll make it easier to not interact as we had been.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/21/12 01:09 PM
Reached out to a friend last night. Turns out he's going through the same thing. Must be the eclipse. sick
Posted By: labug Re: The land of confusion - 05/21/12 02:28 PM
Originally Posted By: Brit45
I think that people do all the logical things not to have to deal with the emotional things. When all the house repairs, the filing, everything is done he will be left with a lot of time on his hands and be forced to think.

This doesn't help you. Perhaps you need to detach sooner. For me there is nothing worse than doing something: cooking dinner, running errands, etc for someone and getting a constant reminder that they don't want to be with me. You don't have to say I'm not cooking or eating dinner with you anymore, but maybe you're out with friends for dinner or at someone else's house. maybe you have a quick dinner and then go to an exercise class. Just do something to where you're not living as a unit anymore.
(sheesh I'm giving you guys tips on what H did to me before he moved out...but hey it worked I'm here)


This is good!
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/21/12 05:10 PM
Yeah, I know. Cheryl recommended I stay on the other track until now, so that's what I was doing because it made sense. Now, it doesn't make sense anymore for me so it's time to adjust.

And go figure, H called my work phone 3 times today, and I did not answer (he did not leave a message). He then sent me a long email about cooking dinner tonight with 6 variations on a dish (we'd discussed this weekend making it this week) for me to choose from. Then he texted me to tell me to respond to the email. mad mad mad

I didn't respond to the calls or text but eventually emailed back a simple reply.
mad <-- i need one of these icons to have smoke coming out of its ears.

I know, I know: detach, detach, detach.
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/21/12 05:27 PM
I think that he wants to convince himself that you guys are friends and this is a friendly thing going on so he can not have guilt. I know this...and that's why he calls/texts/emails and wants to spend time. (this is all mind reading and maybe's of course)

the Detach is for you. so if you're feeling stressed and a bit crazy now, then detach NOW it's for your sanity after all not to make him see a change pre and post filing.

take care of yourself!
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/21/12 06:11 PM
Thanks Brit. I think I may not have clearly expressed myself earlier. I do understand that detaching is for me. I'm just taking it a level further, closer to LRT, now that he has filed.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/21/12 10:24 PM
At home waiting for the papers. Trying to compose myself to not react when they arrive. Kind of lost it a bit at work today but thankfully my office has a door.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/22/12 03:41 AM
Well, they managed to miss the service window tonight so I have to pick a new date. Left for some GAL one minute after the window closed.

Reading the Passion Trap tonight before bed. Only up to chapter 4 but wow - right on the money yet again. It's scary how uncommon my R dynamics were and I didn't even know it. Once again, if only I'd had these resources 2 years ago...
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/22/12 10:00 AM
I know what you mean about realizing that you weren't uncommon. H said something to me that really hurt when I was questioning our marriage but looking back I see that what he meant was our problems aren't that bad. But by then neither of us could communicate. I'm filing that away.

Look at this way you're learning now and not 20 or 30 years from now. They always say you do the best you can with what you have and when you know better you do better.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/22/12 10:34 AM
^^oops, I meant "not uncommon" (need to get more sleep!).

I know it's good to learn this sooner rather than later (although earlier would have been so, so much better).

If anything, at least I will never tell someone in this situation "At least you don't have kids." Just being here, I know how that can complicate things but it really doesn't make me feel any better when someone says it.
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/22/12 12:20 PM
I read a comment you said on Tinker's thread about needing to really let go and be free and then maybe the WAS will stop and look at you differently. I really like that. I'm starting to find the happiness in being free.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/22/12 01:29 PM
I'm glad you found it helpful. Sometimes it's easier to point out things like that in other people's threads than in my own. Again, need to take my own advice.

Still reading through the Passion Trap. This 5LL, HTIYMWTAI, and DB/DR have made me really angry at our MC. I should send her a gift package but I've already spent so much money going to her that maybe I'll just send a letter recommending she read those books.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/22/12 01:45 PM
Having thought about this for 10 minutes, I like the idea of writing to my MC. She called a few weeks after our last session to check in on me but I never returned her call.

I feel like a letter would give me some closure. In our ending sessions (though I didn't realize that's what they were at the time), I kept saying that a lot of the things H was saying now were things that I had thought/said during my crisis, and then I was able to work through my issues and I realized our M was not the problem. Neither MC nor H really understood what I was saying. I think I was just blubbering something about "it comes back, the feelings come back." The Passion Trap's talking about recovering "dormant, not dead, romantic feelings" is EXACTLY what I was trying to describe.

I will, of course, give this 24-48 hours before I act on it. wink
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/22/12 10:52 PM
Had L consult today. It was oddly comforting, in a way. Had to chuckle when she talked about having clients reconciling both before and after D (that part wasn't comforting because H isn't slowing his D train down at all).
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/23/12 12:10 PM
Yesterday H sent me a few emails in the morning with interesting articles/links (he does this most days). Prior to him filing I would not respond right away. Now I generally don't respond to them. Then he sent me an email titled "family stuff" and indicated that both of his parents were having health crises at the moment. I responded quickly with concern. Later, at home, I told him that we could send his mother some flowers on the joint credit card. He seemed to be grateful about that.

After I finished dinner and puttered around for a little bit I went to the gym for the 2nd night in a row, without saying anything to H before I left. (I have a normal schedule of gym days, and those are not part of them). He ended up also going to the gym, so we overlapped but did not interact while we were there.

My bedroom has glass french doors that don't do much for privacy, so I finally installed some thick curtains that we'd bought a long time ago for this purpose. (He asked what I was doing with the power drill and if I needed help. I'm good, thanks.) H said they look good but now he can't tell if I'm in there and he doesn't necessarily want to knock to come in in case I am sleeping. I'm thinking at this point I should suggest that he might want to move some more of his clothing to the guest room where he is so that he doesn't have to come in. Thoughts?
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/23/12 12:15 PM
Oh, after the gym, he asked if the washing machine load was hot or cold (he usually puts his gym gear right in the machine if it's hot). I said hot, and he put his stuff in there even though it was obviously my stuff underneath. I pulled it out this morning. I'm not doing his laundry anymore.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/24/12 01:52 AM
Had a really great visit with a friend today who has known H and I since the beginning. Talked about how silly self-help books used to seem and how much they actually make sense!

Feeling practically like a whole person today. Good day.
Posted By: zig Re: The land of confusion - 05/24/12 03:47 AM
Feeling practically like a whole person today. Good day.

so the trick i've found is to use that feeling later, when you start sliding - and feeling bad - pull up the feeling that you had today and "milk it' in your mind - imagine how good it felt and keep expanding it .

it takes a bit of practice, and then after a week or so, it starts coming more naturally - it's very effective, and oddly, you actually start feeling good, even when you supposedly shouldn't (grin!!)

so pleased to hear you felt that way today, and so now you know - if you can feel it once you can feel it again, and again...

zig
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/24/12 11:40 AM
Thanks zig, that's a great way to think about it.

After I posted that, I had a little backslide. My parents sent me an email indicating that they might not be able to keep our cat permanently (which I think would be best for the cat). It made me sad to think that I'm going to have to explain to them again that there won't be a home for the cat to come back to.

This week was the anniversary of the date we closed on our house a few years ago. We had a 7-10 year plan to stay here before moving on. I just felt really sad. There are a lot of issues with the house, but it's MY house. In the end, I know it's just a house, but we were young when we bought it and that was kind of cool. Trying not to cry as I type this.

I'm getting out of town for a few days and have the rest of my weekend booked solid with GAL after I return. I don't know what H is up to. Don't care.
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/24/12 12:02 PM
It's not just a house it represents your shared dreams for the future. And I get it. We had to sell something that we'd bought together that I'd envisioned us having forever. It was hard. It's been a part of so many memories and represented our dreams. It's not silly.

What you're doing is greiving the loss of what didn't happen, what you'd hoped, and dreamed, what you wanted and what didn't happen. That's perfectly fine and normal.

I am trying and starting to look back at my life when things didn't happen like they thought they would and something better came along. Even small things...
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/24/12 06:24 PM
Thanks Brit, you're right. It is a metaphor for everything in our future plans.

This morning I'd woken up to some very short yet chipper emails from H wishing me well on my trip, asking for me to say hi to my parents and cat from him. Why?????

I've been feeling more awkward about wearing my ring in the past few days. Sometimes I notice that I'll hide my hand in my pocket or behind some clothing if I'm out with other people.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/25/12 02:03 AM
About 3/4 of the way through the Passion Trap. Each chapter becomes more frustrating because it is so obvious how this could have helped my situation early on. H and I were both one-ups and one-downs at various times in our relationship and we were presenting some of these issues in MC but instead wasting time talking about how we felt about our issues and what parts of our childhoods we thought contributed to it.

My frustration is greater because I'm feeling really resigned to H being utterly done and never having a chance to use any of the techniques in TPT to have a new, better M with him. He's so black and white in his thinking and his decision is his decision and that's that. I'd like to have hope but I'm really not feeling it today.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/26/12 02:54 PM
I sent an unsolicited picture of our cat sitting in my suitcase to H. He responded "He wants to come home frown frown "

Home to what home? I didn't respond.

Had a nice long talk with my mom yesterday about the situation. She seemed to approach it very matter-of-factly, without judgment. I think that really helped me because I was worried in particular about how my parents would take the news (whole other mess of childhood issues, being a pleaser, etc). It's good to be with family right now.
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/26/12 03:46 PM
Glad you're having a good visit.
I know exactly what you mean about them being black and white and wishing they could read the books or see where you went wrong. Sadly we can't force them to come to that realisation I'm accepting that more and more
Posted By: needgrace Re: The land of confusion - 05/26/12 03:55 PM
Hi V,

Before DB, when my W was still living with me, I found some books that I thought would be helpful. She would not read them. She did read a few articles I had given her.... but they made no difference, because she was not ready. She did go with me to two sessions of MC with an excellent therapist, but again, she was not ready.

I don't know much about your sitch, but for me, realizing that my W is not ready helps me not get frustrated when I read things that I think might help.

Enjoy your visit!
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/26/12 04:19 PM
I finally finished the Passion Trap so I can stop feeling irritated about not being able to use it. Started Codependent No More last night. I don't know what I'm going to read when I finish all of these self-help books smile
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/26/12 09:47 PM
H continues to text me occasionally throughout the weekend. I've been responding much later than I normally would (hours). He generally responds immediately.

Per zig's advice I am still trying to milk the "whole me" feeling whenever I can. Sometimes it works, sometimes it's hard.

Today I did a little specialty food shopping with my mom and went to look for a dresser. I found a local supplier so I can get some matching furniture ~when~ I have to move after we sell the house.

I am trying to deal with my fear that D will somehow prevent me from being able to have a family. I was always kind of reticent about having kids but even recently told H I am for it but would like to do a little more traveling first and start in 3-ish years. I don't know if I was really clear about my wishes, though. That's something I'll be working on in any future R.

I have noticed on this family trip that some of my new communication skills have altered my normal conversation patterns with my parents for the better. That's a nice point in the column of changes I'm making for myself, not just for my M.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/27/12 03:56 PM
Some really great things in "Codependent No More." This should really be required reading on detaching.

-"Worrying about people and problems doesn't help. It doesn't solve problems, it doesn't help other people, and it doesn't help us. It is wasted energy. 'If you believe that feeling bad or worrying long enough will change a fact, then you are residing on another planet with a different reality system.'"

-"Detachment is based on the premises that each person is responsible for himself, that we can't solve problems that aren't ours to solve, and that worrying doesn't help. . . . If people have created some disasters for themselves, we allow them to face their own proverbial music. We allow people to be who they are. We give them freedom to be responsible and grow. And we give ourselves that same freedom. We live our own lives to the best of our ability. . . . If we cannot solve a problem and we have done what we could, we learn to live with, or in spite of, that problem."

-"Detaching doesn't mean we don't care. It means we learn to love, care, and be involved without going crazy. We stop creating all this chaos in our minds and environments. . . . We become free to care and to love in ways that help others and don't hurt ourselves."

-"Sometimes detachment even motivates and frees people around us to begin to solve their problems. We stop worrying about them, and they pick up the slack and finally start worrying about themselves."

Wishing everyone good progress in their detaching today.
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/27/12 04:38 PM
I know, right?!?!?!? I felt like everything was an instant quote!

I really liked the part of feeling bad about yourself for a period of time doesn't change anything. I think I've spent quite awhile feeling like I deserved the pain of him being with someone because I'd left him. I've stopped beating myself up.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/27/12 09:14 PM
You're so right Brit. I've never used the kindle highlighter before and it is all over this book. Learning that we don't deserve the pain is so key.

I'm also seeing shades of H as a codependent. I always told him he was enabling a friend of his who would, without fail, get in his car and drive somewhere and then call H for directions. But that's a whole other story. Both of us being somewhat codependent seems to mesh with the turmoil after I recovered from my illness and our roles where he was more of a caretaker had a shakeup.

Anyway, just got home from my trip. H is out of town. I'm pretty sure he slept in my bed while I was gone and he was home for a night. I know the guest room air mattress is messing with his neck but I find it hard to feel sorry about that.
Posted By: Valeska19 Re: The land of confusion - 05/27/12 10:59 PM
I enjoyed Co-Dependent No More and usually recommend it on the boards. Next to DR, it is the book that has caused the most growth for me.

Such a challenging book...

It's a fine line to walk because people can very easily to use it to justify anger (Teaching lessons vs. allowing consequence).

As you know most co-dependents.. get involved with other co-dependents. It's a tough cycle to break...

I believe this is because there is so much fear that comes along with it. And until you learn to not be afraid, you are even MORE fearful letting go than staying attached.

Well it was for me.

And I definitely went through a period where being around pregnant women or little kids was difficult. My w and I were trying for our first child just 3 months prior to the bomb...

.. but then I remind myself that a co-dependent relationship is not healthy and I'm going to be a 100 times a better mom because I know how to have healthy relationships.

It's a blessing and WILL HUGE in the future.. even if it stings a little NOW.

((( )))
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/28/12 02:05 AM
Hi Val,

You hit the nail right on the head about fear and staying attached and also about knowing that this experience will make us better people/spouses/parents/etc. in the future. I hope smile

H sent me a few texts today updating significant life events for a few people as he gathered from FB since he knows I'm not on it. I thanked him for the info. Not really sure what I'm supposed to do with that knowledge.

A mutual friend who now knows our situation said that he has been posting his usual things on FB at about normal volume. Friend thought it was odd that he wasn't showing any signs of the real-life situation (not that one would advertise on FB). Apparently he's seeking someone to go with him on some random adventure trip to a far-flung location this fall (notably it is not any place we'd ever discussed going nor is it the place he had been planning on going the last time he talked about any trip like that). I guess maybe that means there's no OW lined up waiting to go. sick
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/28/12 12:48 PM
Perhaps a little backsliding last night. I logged into FB for the first time in 6 months to check on the two people H texted me about. Then I decided to check on him (Bad Idea, I know). Turns out he's re-friended some significant women from his past (an x that sent him into major depression spiral and at least one woman with whom he had the online EA/PA) and friended a ton of women who I don't even know (we generally have the same set of friends, these people don't even have any other mutual friends with him).

Seems that what he "needs" to make him happy is the adoration of a cadre of women; my will to stand for my M is running very thin today.

Feels like same sh*t different day. This is what wrecked my self-esteem in the past. Back then, though, I was mad at the other women. Today I know that it's not me, and it's not necessarily them - H has the problem and is the primary actor here.

I think in Brit's thread there's a discussion of the WAS not doing any work on themselves and the LBS seeing the WAS's flaws for the first time from a new, healthier (detached) perspective. That looks to be true here. Last night I got angry but I feel calmer this morning. I deserve to be treated better. I feel sad for H because he's not any closer in this process to figuring out what will actually make him happy. I am.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/28/12 10:43 PM
Got home today looking awesome (my gym GAL has been paying off) and I know H noticed. He brought up me being around to "sign for" the D papers again. I told him it was going to go through my L and that I would tell him when it was set up. I also told him maybe he should consider putting some of his clothing up in the spare bedroom. He had the dumbest look on his face when he said "Why?" I told him it was so he wasn't in and out of my bedroom because I didn't have anywhere in the house that he wasn't going through and I needed some private space for myself.

Really not doing a good job at not having the sharp edge in my voice tonight. mad
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/29/12 02:15 AM
I stopped being such a stickler for cleaning the kitchen (I guess that's a 180. I've been so busy GAL that I just haven't had as much time for it). Interestingly, H has picked up that slack and then some. Is he DB'ing me with a 180?
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/29/12 12:31 PM
This morning H said there were signs up in our neighborhood about a meeting tomorrow that has some zoning implications if I wanted to go. I said I would be going to the gym and didn't see much point in going if I wasn't going to be living in the house for much longer.

I know I should have bitten my tongue and just said I had other plans but I'm having a really hard time right now. My goal for this week is to get back to being more breezy and vague with my plans without being negative. 2x4s or thoughts would be appreciated.
Posted By: labug Re: The land of confusion - 05/29/12 12:38 PM
You have your goal, you know what you need to change.

I have a "smart mouth" it's a defense mechanism, I have a hard time quelling it but it certainly makes me an easier person to be around when I do.

And this means not just in my M but in all my Rs.
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/29/12 01:39 PM
It's not what he needs to be happy. He just doesn't know that yet. It's self medicated or whatever. But you're right it's his thing to work out.

It's very typical for a WAS to only see things from their perspective. He probably doesn't realize that he shouldn't have things in your room and doesn't realize it's a big deal. I thinka bout some of the things I asked of my H when we first split and I cringe.

He needs time and space on his own to remember and appreciate you and it will happen. Now whether they act on it is a different thing all together.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/29/12 02:57 PM
bug - you're right. It's a defense mechanism, and a very, very comfortable one. I'd done a better job controlling it before when i was still in flirty girlfriend mode. Now that DB coach has recommended pulling back more I'm having trouble finding the right balance between being breezily detached, not getting too involved, and not being a cool/cold smart@ss. I've made about six notes to myself in different places to be vague and breezy. I went back to my early notes in this process and H's main complaint was that he didn't believe my self-improvements were permanent. I need to make sure they are, for me.

brit - you're right about the perspective part. H definitely doesn't realize a lot of the things he's asking to do are a big deal.

I tried to remind myself of our vows this morning to re-center. We had included a line about when our love is easy and when it is an effort. It's a really f'ing big effort right now, but that's where I need to be. There is nothing more important than working on myself and becoming a better person. It will probably not save my M but it will save me.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/30/12 01:57 AM
Alright. Did a little better today with interactions. H invited me to an event in July with a bunch of other people (really?) but I deferred and said I wasn't sure what my plans were that far out.

He also invited me to dinner this week with his grandfather. Before I could reply, he said "Wait, let me guess, you have plans already, right?"

grin

I actually do have something planned but we kind of had a laugh about it. He opened up more about the trip he took over the weekend. I need to remember to keep up the validating. I actually went back an apologized for something I didn't validate yesterday and did it tonight. He acknowledged it.

I caught up tonight with a friend going through virtually the same experience. Must be something in the water.

I caught my IC up on the situation in the past few weeks. She almost lost it when I told her the sequence of H filing for D and then the next day asking if I wanted to day trip to the beach. Yep.
Posted By: needgrace Re: The land of confusion - 05/30/12 02:50 PM
Hi V,

I caught up on your thread last night.

I think you are amazing. I could not imagine having so much contact with my W and being able to hold it together like you do, especially with the mixed signals.. "let's spend time together", "I filed."

My W has been like that at times, hot and then cold, and I lose it.. I have a tough time not having expectations when she is warm..

she even told me a few weeks ago about "advising" another couple to go to MC to work things out, when she has refused herself. wtf?

I love how you are GALing and admire your strength. ((( )))
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/30/12 03:31 PM
Hi NG, thanks for stopping in again and for the kind words. Believe me, having the hot/cold from H has not been easy for me to keep my expectations (of zero) in check. I am still reading Codependent No More and highlighting and bookmarking nearly every page.

I think I'm going to start taking down the display of wedding pictures in our living room and pack them away. I have been starting to box up some things from my closet to get ready for the inevitable move.

I went shopping over the weekend and found some nice stuff for myself but then felt a little guilty and sad that it was just going to be more stuff for me to pack when I have to move. I'm still angry about that.

I checked some listings for sale in our area and I don't think that we will be able to get what we paid for it. I'm going to have to think about how to approach this because I really can't afford to lose the money in the house right now. I guess our next step will be to get realtors' opinions on how much we could list it for and what work needs to be done. I don't know if he's open to retaining ownership and renting it out, but I'm not sure I want to be financially connected to him in that way.

H went shopping and picked up some Magic Erasers. I guess that's all he thinks he needs to do to get the house ready to show.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/30/12 04:58 PM
Hmm, seems like some of my other thoughts didn't make it into that last message.

I am very thankful that I have not experienced some of the difficult situations that others on this board have faced. There is no violence between H and I. As we don't have kids I do not feel that H is using anyone or thing as a pawn. There are no substance use issues. He did not pack up and leave one day never to be seen again. I don't have overt evidence of a PA but I suspect there is at least one EA going on somewhere. I kind of just assume there is so I don't spend a lot of energy thinking about it.

And while I feel it is a positive on some level that we are still living together, as he has said he cannot afford to get an apartment until the house is sold, and this gives me some time to make my 180's permanent and for him to notice and we continue to have some positive but always civil interactions...... I feel like the house is a huge barrier to him being able to turn around, look back, and go, as one of the vets recently said, from Drive to Neutral or Reverse on the D train.

And with all of the work I'm doing on me I don't know that I would be up for negotiating an R with him after a D is final and the house is sold. I don't know. I'm getting ahead of myself, as the house isn't even listed yet nor is it ready to be, nor is there any sign that H would ever return from his abduction from aliens. I don't know how that's going to play out but I will deal with it at that time.

It has been so great to see many reconciliation stories here recently. I've desperately looked through other archived threads trying to find a shred of additional hope by finding a situation that looks like mine. In a way I know it doesn't matter because every situation is unique but it is sometimes comforting.

Just going to keep focusing on me and what I need to do for me for now.
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/30/12 05:29 PM
Don't get ahead of yourself. Sometimes we can't fathom how something will happen but we always look back and think if I knew what I know how or look how far I've come.

I do think as difficult as it is for you, he's got blinders on and still thinks he can have an amazing friendship with you, have his Vera fix and also have his own life. He sounds a lot like me actually when I was a WAW. I would hang out H like he was my best friend and then say so when are you moving out? And not know why he was upset.

Anyway, be distant but not cold. Have loads of stuff going on. Start doing spontaneous stuff something that'll shake him up. Start a mini mid life crisis of your own clothes you wouldn't normally wear etc anything to shake him up that's what it took for me!
Posted By: needgrace Re: The land of confusion - 05/30/12 05:41 PM
I like Brit's idea...

alittle bit of mystery to make him wonder

and a dose of reality to help him realize that things will change...

the house decision is a big one.... we have an investment property and i was not willing to lose money on it... even though it means that we are still connected.. for me, i had to imagine how i would feel about my decision 10 years down the road...

i think it is good to talk to a realtor and give yourself some time to think about your decision instead of feeling rushed...

((( )))
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/30/12 09:23 PM
Speaking of difficult sitches I met a woman today who found out her husband was having an affair while she was going thru chemo...so yeah...

Also as hard as it is to live with him I sometimes wish I hadn't pushed for him to move out. I could have db'd better. So use this time wisely!
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/30/12 10:01 PM
Thanks for the comments.

I was wearing a miniskirt for my GAL on Monday and H saw it when I got home. Anytime I wear something new, he asks, "is that new?" So, he's looking, but he's also Captain Obvious about things and if we are walking he will literally point out six things like "There's a red flower right there. That's a small dog." So I think it's partly just him making friendly conversation because I have no expectations that it's anything more at this point. smile

I did go grocery shopping by myself last night after work even though he had been asking about when "we'd" be going this week. He was a little surprised and had to go by himself to get his own stuff this morning. Tough!
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/30/12 11:04 PM
Originally Posted By: Brit45
Speaking of difficult sitches I met a woman today who found out her husband was having an affair while she was going thru chemo...so yeah...

Also as hard as it is to live with him I sometimes wish I hadn't pushed for him to move out. I could have db'd better. So use this time wisely!


Ugh, that is terrible!

I am trying to use this time wisely but am struggling a little since I was the one who kicked him out of the bedroom immediately after the bomb and then told him over the weekend to take some of his clothes, too. Cheryl and I had talked about whether it would make sense to invite him to come back to the bedroom, no strings attached. I don't think that's good for me now (although I had been planning on bringing it up before he filed for D).

Aaaaand of course as I was typing the above he came into where I am sitting to ask whether I was going to be around tomorrow. I snapped a little because I knew he was asking to get me served and I told him that I've already told him multiple times that I'm working on getting my L set up and I can't just find one overnight and once I have that I will let him know and I'm not trying to slow things down as I understand he is anxious to get this moving but I need some time to get myself set up (pretty much all in one breath). And then I turned away after he said "Okay" as he was leaning on the door frame like a little kid. After I turned away he said, "Are you okay?" and I responded "I'm fine."

Rar. Going to the gym in a little bit. I think I'm a little irritated because I really, really did not like the L I met today and I'm going to go with a different L. I actually felt ill leaving today's consultation. Glad I checked out a few options.
Posted By: needgrace Re: The land of confusion - 05/31/12 02:18 AM

Hope there was a punching bag at the gym. I would have needed one after that.

((( )))
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/31/12 03:32 AM
Haha, thanks. No punching bag but I got in a great workout and hit a new personal best running while thinking affirmations about how awesome I am and how I am running toward happier days and healthier relationships.

Awhile back I may have mentioned that H got in the mail an engagement party invite and then a save the date from his best friend and that I was conspicuously not on the address label. I sent his friend and fiancee' a small engagement gift off of their registry anyway (I have known them for many years now). It's supposed to be delivered tomorrow. I'll be curious to see what the reaction is but I have no expectations about it. I felt like it was the right thing to do... even if they throw it away thinking it is cursed wink
Posted By: scaredsilly Re: The land of confusion - 05/31/12 11:07 AM
why do people do that? send an invitation to your home and leave you off? my H's best friend did that, too, with a save-the-date notice for his son's wedding.

i called my H and asked him to please tell them to send any further invitations that don't include me to his office address so i don't have to see them.

later, they sent the actual wedding invitation to both of us. when i remarked to my H, he said he had not mentioned it to them. so, maybe they came to their "etiquette" senses, but more importantly, why DIDN'T H mention it to them?? are their feelings more important then mine?

crazy.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: The land of confusion - 05/31/12 12:25 PM
Hi Verab,

I've read through your sitch, and I have to say it is awfully like mine in many many ways. The details might be different, but it's a similar character we are dealing with. That whole, "Let's be friends" but "We're not together". The whole, "I'm tired of working on things - nothing works!" and "This is so heavy." Once they leave, it's like they become really comfortable and passive suddenly. My H will come to things I invite him to, but (unlike your H) he rarely asks me to do anything. Still, he sends me appreciation out of the blue by text, and sends me jokes via email. Basically, they hold on to you but don't want you to hold on to them.

I would say don't let them hold on to you if at all possible - then things are not so comfortable for them anymore and that is a good shakeup they need. But for me, I've noticed that ignoring him completely doesn't work either. He just ignores me right back. So, I haven't found the solution there.

I've been in this for coming up to 6 months now, and I am none the wiser I must say. At times, I just can't take his confusion and call him and tell him to get on with it already. Like you, I told him I don't want a D, so he will have to do it himself if that's what he wants. Like you, I was always the one who did the research and got things moving in whatever we did. And again, like you, I too have a smart LOUD mouth that I have been learning to tone down and let go. Regardless though, he still doesn't want to know. He's being stupidly stubborn.


He seems to be more worried about his reputation as a good guy than anything else. Is your H the same? They seem to suffer from a fear of being the bad guy or something.

I - like you - have gal'ed so damn much I am actually living a different life, in a different home, hanging out with different people. Still, no divorce/no reconciliation. A whole lot of limbo really.

So, I think it is really good that you are moving on and getting your own space. Not sure it will be the wake up call he needs (my H simply got used to my move really, yes, he's always been adaptable).

BASICALLY, they are chasing shadows. Just like Brit45 mentioned, there's a wake up call they need. Hopefully you will be strong enough (stronger than me anyway) to go with whatever happens after a you hit the nail on the wakeup button. I'll keep an eye on your sitch - it could be very helpful for me. Thanks!
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/31/12 01:18 PM
Hi YC, thanks for stopping in. Your thread was one of the first I read on here because of the title.

Originally Posted By: YankeeCandle

He seems to be more worried about his reputation as a good guy than anything else. Is your H the same? They seem to suffer from a fear of being the bad guy or something.


Yes - he explicitly stated this during MC in one of our last sessions. I think it's partly why he is trying to act "nice."

Originally Posted By: YankeeCandle

I - like you - have gal'ed so damn much I am actually living a different life, in a different home, hanging out with different people. Still, no divorce/no reconciliation. A whole lot of limbo really.


Limbo stinks. I feel like I'm not quite in it because I'm on a steep, long playground side and I'm trying to slow down as much as I can by pushing against the sides with my hands and feet because I know the end of the slide is the D that H wants. I'm just trying to be able to land with as much grace as possible to get up and keep walking after I hit the dirt at the end. I guess DB'ing is the pushing against the sides to slow down the slide but I'm still concerned that going along with things too much to give H the space to proceed with the D is like giving in, folding my arms, and just closing my eyes until I get to the end.

Alright, this metaphor is getting a little too convoluted. eek Moving on!

Originally Posted By: YankeeCandle

BASICALLY, they are chasing shadows. Just like Brit45 mentioned, there's a wake up call they need. Hopefully you will be strong enough (stronger than me anyway) to go with whatever happens after a you hit the nail on the wakeup button. I'll keep an eye on your sitch - it could be very helpful for me. Thanks!


I think you're stronger than you give yourself credit for! Hang in there.

I'm still thinking about sending small cards to his close family thanking them for their love and support over the time we've been together. Not yet. But I'm thinking about it. I had been hoping that someone in his family would try to talk some sense into him, but that was probably too much of an expectation. I was just telling someone going through the same situation about how it hurts to think that H's closest friends are probably the ones saying to him, get out if you're not happy, etc., especially when one of them is an IC and is about to get married. mad
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/31/12 01:24 PM
You are doing amazing. It's hard and you have to think on your feet with him living there so don't be hard on yourself if you don't say anything perfectly.

Also don't answer him until you feel ready. While were living together I did something rash and now will never get a piece of jewelry back. long story but if I had just waited a day and said let me think of that I would made better decisions.
Posted By: needgrace Re: The land of confusion - 05/31/12 03:54 PM
Hi V,

I love the slide metaphor... I have felt the same way. I think when I was pushing against the sides, she felt like I was trying to control her and that confirmed for her that she needed to keep pushing. I think it also made her feel guilt and that made her feel the need to push more too...

Now I am just sitting there waiting for her to push me down. I will not push myself but I am not actively trying to hold on. (I had asked her to slow down far too many times as she has been so impulsive and moved so quickly.)

I have no idea if my new strategy will help, but I know the old way wasn't working. Odds are a true long shot. smile But now, the choice is 100% hers, not a response in any way to my actions.

Your situation is far more difficult with H living there and having contact. I admire your strength. I like Brit's idea of saying that you need to think about things before responding. (I did that when we were splitting up stuff prior to her move so that I would not regret my sudden decisions.)

Hang in there, V!
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/31/12 04:27 PM
That's a good idea, I will practice in my head so I remember to do that. In the past when I said I needed more time to think about whatever related to D, H got an irritated look on his face. Too bad, mister. But, I think it is getting very close to the time where we have to discuss what to do with the house. That's a pretty heavy conversation... I tend to be quiet and serious when that happens. Do I still try to channel the breezy detached person? Not really sure how to navigate this.
Posted By: Brit45 Re: The land of confusion - 05/31/12 05:59 PM
Dunno about the house but I had to comment because I've only just noticed your sig says fast train to d-ville and that cracked me up! Thanks for the much needed laugh!
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/31/12 06:27 PM
Haha, yes, he's got the engineer hat and he is tooting the horn as often as possible.

Unrelated - I haven't been able to get too far back into the archives, but are there any success threads dealing with WAHs? I feel like all of the recent ones were men dealing with WAWs.
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: The land of confusion - 05/31/12 07:56 PM
follow-up question - When I try to be vague about where I'm doing/going, H usually asks a follow up, and then I end up saying what I am doing/where I went/whatever. I don't want to come across as a jerk and I'm not volunteering any info upfront. Should I be more vague?

Yesterday I had to leave for the L appointment. H was surprised and asked if I was going into work (Was working from home). I didn't answer his question and just said I'd be back later and left. When I got back, H said "welcome back!"

???
© DivorceBusting.com