Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 12:38 PM
Part 9
Posted By: labug Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 01:35 PM
Starting a new thread won't get you out of answering this question:

Quote:
The statistics are that 50% of all first marriages fail and 60% of second marriages.

Why do you think that is?


And anew one: Who would you be honest with?

Hope you had a good weekend.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 03:55 PM
I'm guessing 50% and 60% happen is because when you get married their are 4 people at the alter. H & W. H issues, W issues. Plain an simple.

I would have to learn to be honest with myself.

My weekend has some terrible moments because I let it be.
Posted By: AprilT Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 04:07 PM
Why do 60% of second marriages fail??? Because people did not fix their s&%t the first time! I am a firm believer that if you do not fix the issues with your current/first spouse and yourself, you are going to make the same mistakes in the second one.

For me, I am working on my issues--BEFORE I move to a new relationship. I want to be my most authenic self when I branch out again. My soon to be Ex--he has already moved to a new cow so to speak......God help her.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 04:10 PM
AprilT I do agree with you. I'm working on myself and discovered how much workload I have on myself. Making SLOW progress but I have so much work to do. MY W this is her 2nd marriage and it's failiing too. I suspect her 3rd would too because she refuses to accept any responsibility for the collapse of this one.

I will not move into any other relationship until I have myself sorted out and believe me when I tell you I have more work then I even could imagine.
Posted By: AprilT Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 04:13 PM
Net you are in a good place! Celebrate the small steps and enjoy the freedom it gives you to be your most "amazing" self:)

Rootin for ya!
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 04:30 PM
I'm not where I want to be yet that is for sure. I still make mistakes with her. Just today even. If I just listened from day 1 and completely let her go I would be in a much better place today. Instead I (ME and only ME) allowed her to take me on an emotional roller coaster. Again ONLY me. This are my choices and how I react to the situation. From this day forward I'm trying to let her completely go outside of the kids.
Posted By: labug Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 07:36 PM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
I'm guessing 50% and 60% happen is because when you get married their are 4 people at the alter. H & W. H issues, W issues. Plain an simple.

I would have to learn to be honest with myself.

My weekend has some terrible moments because I let it be.


Yay, Net!
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 09:31 PM
going to mediator. I've had enough. Thx all. I'm all done with her
Posted By: MrBond Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 09:32 PM
That was pretty quick from what you just posted a couple of hours ago. Did something happen?
Posted By: labug Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 09:33 PM
Whaaaaat!?!? You're worried about her cycles, you should have yours checked.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 09:40 PM
nope it is her. She flipped out on me. Absolutely calling me names and vulgarity. Said she was waiting until dog episode was done. Shes wanted out for a very long time. I'm tired of having her feel trapped. it blows believe me but there is no working with her. She wants it, I'm not fighting it anymore. I'll let her do the work.She was more worried about pulling the trigger and explaining to kids. This isn't me but 2 years of verbal abuse is way to much
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 10:00 PM
LA you don't know 1/2 of it. So easy ok. Every 2 weeks for 3 years but most likely (10) I've gotten this verbal rotten abuse. It will be better for the kids. i truly believe that. I can't enjoy them like this
Posted By: labug Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 10:02 PM
You're right.

Good luck.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 10:03 PM
Thx. Sorry I meant to say she is going to mediator and I finally said ok. That I'm ok with it.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 10:09 PM
and btw I know I failed in every aspect of this separation. I didn't detach. I pursued even when I thought I wasn't. I wasn't patient. My anxiety got the absolute best of me. I've completely failed. Having no job absolutely killed me too
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 10:40 PM
I'm so pissed at myself. Honestly pissed off for myself for wrecking my family. I'm a real azzhole. Maybe now I finally detach after shes gone
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/23/12 10:48 PM
Reading through all my posts from 2thepoint, LA, Mr. Bond, KD etc.. I blew it. I should have just listened. Leave her 250% completely be.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 12:31 AM
Sorry LA. Today went the exact opposite of what I planned. Can't even tell you what I was planning for today and actually what happened
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 12:51 AM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
... I blew it. I should have just listened. Leave her 250% completely be.


OK, so now you say you are DONE! Now, more than ever you need to remember and live your statement above! Stop being the moth flying into the zapper! Stop jumping on the hamster wheel!

Can you do it? Will you do it?
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 02:49 AM
I'm going to try to go underground for awhile. Today really kicked me in the kidneys. I had this whole day planned out to be not around and it backfired.

In summary I finally stuck up for myself. Said I wasn't going to tolerate the nasty talk, the vulgarity, etc... She picked up phone and called lawyer and schedule appointment. Well I stuck up for myself hooray. End result not so much hooray.

Sorry not going to tolerate that behavior. What good does that do in and around the kids.
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 03:28 AM
Quote:
In summary I finally stuck up for myself. Said I wasn't going to tolerate the nasty talk, the vulgarity, etc... She picked up phone and called lawyer and schedule appointment. Well I stuck up for myself hooray. End result not so much hooray.


Net - you do realize that her calling the L after you establishing/enforcing your boundary was just another ploy to keep you on your heels? Don't fall for it. Stay detached. Treat every interaction with your W like a business transaction. No emotion, get down to business and then move along.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 11:39 AM
If I could detach this whole process would be simple
Posted By: AprilT Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 12:13 PM
Net no one ever said it was gonna be easy....its just a choice you have to make. Much like choosing to stop smoking, or drinking. At first it feels foreign and unsure. Then you start to like how you feel when THEY no longer control your every thought and action. Then it becomes habit.

Don't beat yourself up each time you make a mistake. Get up, dust yourself off, and keep going. The glory comes in getting up and staying true to YOU. You and your children are what matters. Even though mine are grown, I had to do this for me and them. We needed to break away to get healthy and heal. I am starting to like me again, and that feels great.

Hang in there and make time for you Net--you deserve it.
Posted By: labug Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 01:16 PM
It is simple, it's not easy.

You can detach, it takes work.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 06:37 PM
I feel like everytime this happens I'm
Starting over. It is very frustrating to me she doesn't see her extreme anger every month. I do feel like we are hopeless because no matter what it takes 2 especially when W is out of balance.

She also feels my prescience makes her feel sick and a week later when I'm gone or not around as much she feels better. She doesn't realize it's just a week later.

She is also stressing out about my lease being up. I almost feel she feels pressured to make a decision because of it. No true but I have no communication with her so hard to address.

Anyways it is a bummer. I'm looking for a job to help me stay busy
Posted By: MrBond Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 06:44 PM
"It is very frustrating to me she doesn't see her extreme anger every month."

This is why you keep falling. You are still expecting her to see something. You get angry because you believe she doesn't. You are allowing her to affect you. You can just as easily not allow her to affect you.

"I do feel like we are hopeless because no matter what it takes 2 especially when W is out of balance."

No it doesn't. Look at 25yearsmlc. Her H wasn't even in the same state as her and she DB'd successfully. 1 person can make a difference. If you know that she's going to be confrontational at a certain time, and you know that by engaging her you will be hit with emotional abuse, then don't pay her any attention. Change your perception of her. Rather than seeing her as you W, see her as a spoiled child throwing a tantrum. Do you pay any attention to a child? Of course not. You let it run it's course.

You can still put your foot down when she's crossing a boundary of yours, but don't allow her to affect you any longer.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 07:25 PM
Mr. B my counselor said that because of her childhood she fights like a child and to do just what you said picture her a child yelling at you. Would you yell back or engage.

My worry or fear is she will never get help. She always blames "ME" for getting her into this state (body funk) even though just yesterday a holistic dr told her that her adrenal glands probably out of whack. Its very common when a women stops breast feeding a child for this to happen. She hears dr's say her symptoms are common but choose to pass the blame on me.

I get it. I can ignore it but again is this anyway to live your life. Walking on eggshells and having your W threaten you with divorce every month etc..

I guess I'm going to have to re-read DB book again.

I'm pretty sure she is meeting up with a lawyer this week..

Another frustrating thing. Again out of my control. But it would be really nice if we could sit down as adults 2/3 times a month and talk. There are things that I have done that have bothered her and I didn't even know. Total miscommunication from separation.

Just yesterday she blamed me for my son asking her last night if she had a boyfriend. She said I must be talking in front of him. I was furious. Those words have not left my mouth. He is 6 and these types of things come up. She blamed me etc...

He is also asking everyday when daddy is moving back home. If i try to bring that up to W she thinks I have an agenda and I'm making it up. FRUSTRATING. I'm not making it up but I can only deflect the questions for so long.

Anyways. I truly feel like when this crap happens I'm starting from the bottom stair again.
Posted By: MrBond Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 07:37 PM
Again, YOU CANNOT CONTROL HER ACTIONS.

Rather than fighting against what she says, you have the freedom to leave. Establish your boundary again (she may threaten, etc.) state it clearly and straightforward to her that you will not be her punching bag any more and then walk away. Don't turn around. Don't stop. Don't engage. Just ignore.

No matter how hurtful is the stuff is she says to you, just keep on walking.

There's a reason why I changed my name to Mr. Bond. I was like you to a lesser extent. I felt like I had to engage my W every time she said or did something and even when she didn't. So I decided to model my behavior after someone who respects women but doesn't necessarily listen to them when it doesn't suit his purpose.

It's made things alot better when I started treating my W like that. She actually listens more now.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 08:26 PM
One thing she made clear is she sort of angry that I am not on board with the D. She said "I know you are scheming up something you can say to the kids when their older that mommy left the marriage" but did you tell them this "mommy has been in the marriage the last 7 years and you weren't"

Yes I know I can't control her actions. I can only control my reactions and I did finally stand up for myself on the phone. I said "who do you think you are talking to me like that. In that tone and that vulgarity. I will not tolerate it anymore." She said you won't have to I'm playing phone tag with a lawyer now.

I just really don't know how to DB with a person that is not rationale 10 days a month. Completely in denial.

Also Mr. B believe it or not I don't engage my W that much only when she gets in this state is when I FAIL the most. Even when I know its coming I completely fail. Plus this time around I was starting to get ANGRY and I vented back at her for her 'potty' mouth.

It is so tough. My business is so slow and on top of it sometimes when I look at my laptop and try to work it becomes a giant BLUR..

Then mix in the emotional questions my kids are asking me.

I do feel she will be hitting me with a mediator soon. If she does isn't it better to be amicable? Seriously instead of a blood bath.

I am going to try your method of not engaging. Grab the kids. Put them in car. Walk away. Don't respond etc..
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 08:33 PM
2thepoint in your opinion why do you think my W every month when she gets into this "rage stage" threaten me with D but doesn't take action. Is it the guilt thing. Plus I'm pretty sure she is going to meet with a L this week or next week to see what her options are. The free consult. I actually did 2 of them and I was actually surprised both L's said D [censored] think about it and fight for it..
Posted By: MrBond Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 08:39 PM
"Walk away. Don't respond etc.."

No I only meant that in the cases when you're arguing and she's spewing at you.

When you have your kids and they can see you both, don't ignore her totally and look like a jerk. You don't want to make them have to remember this.

Say 'hi' in a pleasant manner to your W, smile and know that you're going to spend the best time of your life with your kids. Show her that you're actually happy without her.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 08:44 PM
well Mr. B she was spewing that crap in front of the kids that is what I meant by putting them in the car and leaving
Posted By: MrBond Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 08:55 PM
Then be sure to pull her to the side away from the kids and talk to her. Be the adult and lead when dealing with her. hard but necessary.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 08:56 PM
Mr. B am I reading this right. You're still DB and have been on here since 2008?
Posted By: MrBond Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 09:15 PM
yep.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 09:23 PM
Wow that is some patience. Are you living with her or apart
Posted By: MrBond Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 09:33 PM
Apart. After the bomb she demanded I leave, yeah right. I told her if she's unhappy, then she had to leave. So she packed up her stuff that day and went.

We see each other every weekend, hang out and are rebuilding our friendship. She still has issues, but they are hers and hers alone.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 09:58 PM
Originally Posted By: MrBond
"It is very frustrating to me she doesn't see her extreme anger every month."

This is why you keep falling. You are still expecting her to see something.


What she probably sees... is that her H becomes a complete basket case and idiot ever month...

You are her mirror... but she doesn't see herself... she sees you... which is why she doesn't like you so much...

stop reflecting...
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 10:10 PM
KD thx. That makes actual sense to me. I'm reacting to her rage which in turn is making it look like I haven't changed a bit.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/24/12 10:49 PM
I just read through all my posts from January. It is obvious that my biggest problem is obsessing about the situation and not focusing on me at all. I mean I'm doing the counseling, playing cards, etc. Here is my pattern downfall I recognize..

W starts to feel good. Interacts with me. Invites me to stuff. I hang out more. She still feels good. Her cycle changes to rage mode. She distances herself from me and gives me silent treatment. I start to react. I ask her what is up. She explodes. I still react. She threatens with L. Calms down. Rinse and repeat.

Today I actually had a decent day. Ironically I did not hear from her all day. I actually got some space for once. I did have some pretty bad anxiety this am but its ok now.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 12:53 AM
Just talked with counselor he said what you resist persists
Posted By: scaredsilly Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 12:53 AM
my anxiety always came from thinking about H; what is he doing, who is he with, how can i manipulate him into wanting me again, what can i say to make him want to come back, has he thought of me today, is he sad about this, etc., etc., etc.

i finally had to go to my doctor and up my AD's and get a sleeping pill because i could not stop my brain!!

GAL has saved me from myself! i'm going places when i really don't want to and then i'm happy that i did. that makes me want to do it more. i'm also spending time with my family. that helps so much.

hope this helps.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 02:35 AM
Well guys she booked a mediator for us next week. Not sure what I can do outside of showing up.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 03:18 AM
like i have to show up right. Stupid to avoid this?
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 08:03 AM
I'm bummed out. My w start spewing crap at me and then emailed me to meet her next T at 3 for mediator appointment.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 12:49 PM
Kd, vets, could use your input so badly right now
Posted By: labug Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 01:00 PM
Net, I know this is very painful for you but I'm not sure there is anything to be said that hasn't been said before.

You read over your old posts, you're an intelligent guy. What do you think the advice would be?

People can talk(type)until they're blue in the face but until you're ready to listen it's all dust in the wind.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 01:37 PM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
I just read through all my posts from January. It is obvious that my biggest problem is obsessing about the situation and not focusing on me at all. I mean I'm doing the counseling, playing cards, etc. Here is my pattern downfall I recognize..

W starts to feel good. Interacts with me. Invites me to stuff. I hang out more. She still feels good. Her cycle changes to rage mode. She distances herself from me and gives me silent treatment. I start to react. I ask her what is up. She explodes. I still react. She threatens with L. Calms down. Rinse and repeat.

Today I actually had a decent day. Ironically I did not hear from her all day. I actually got some space for once. I did have some pretty bad anxiety this am but its ok now.



Net...

It's your role in this, that keeps things stirred up.

Can you see the role that you play ???

Why do you always come around to blaming her, for your shortcomings in communication ???

When are you going to start owning your part ?



You come across as an "all or nothing" kind of guy. There is no middle ground, and you interact with all the subtlety of a bowling ball in a blender.

When you say that you had a decent day, because you didn't interact...

How could YOU play a part in changing that, moving forward ?



What things could YOU do to perpetuate those things ???

What is one thing, that you can do today...for you ????

Something new, that you always wanted to do, but never did ???
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 02:16 PM
The appointment is made she asked me to go to the consultation. I'm going to go with her.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 02:17 PM
Kd playing tpc golf course today first time ever
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 02:29 PM
La the advice I was seeking was do I goto mediator consultation or not. She set it up and asked me to go
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 02:55 PM
Could'a, should'a, would'a net....

Your counsellor gave you good feedback. Your resistance has created the context of where you are, right now...

This isn't a question of whether you should go to the meeting with your W, or not...

This is a question of WHO you are...

The answer to WHO... is what drives you... it is why you are in panic mode...

Functionally, life is a very simple experience of "do I turn left or right?"...

What you are resisting is the meaning... What the MEANING of LEFT and RIGHT...

You have no idea what is going to happen at the meeting... yet deep down... you already know what is going to happen... what the result or outcome will be... because you know how you are going to be...

I can give you one exercise, and one exercise only... that can change the outcome of the meeting... and possibly your entire sitch...

Every day, from now till the meeting... do something different... other than you would do...

Brush your teeth with a different hand... eat something different for breakfast... make yourself a sandwich for lunch using toasted, frozen waffles... drive a different way to work... drive a different way back... sleep with your feet at the headboard... watch TV with your eyes closed...

I am asking yourself to give you as many opportunities to do something different... to risk making a mistake... to throw yourself off your well honed centre...

Because doing something different is very likely going to be what it takes for you to turn this around...

Taking the chance to do this exercise at as many opportunities as possible could help you make different choices... to be different... at the meeting... and change the outcome that may already be pre-determined...

That is truly the best advice I can give you...

Good luck...
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 03:38 PM
I see sort of what your saying
Posted By: AprilT Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 03:42 PM
Net go to the meeting....you having nothing to lose at this point and everything to gain.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 03:42 PM
It is a paid consult with mediator kd hard not to panic. I'm going on there with open mind and no resistance . If this is what W needs to heal then so be it. Maybe it's what I need to heal too.

I'm going to try not to react and just listen
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 03:45 PM
ok, good...

Here's the thing though, NM... none of us can be with you to help you through this on a moment by moment basis... to help motivate you in times that you need a little nudge...

This is something that you are going to have to find within yourself...

Are you easily... squirrel!!!.... distracted?

Find a way to focus on what you need to do. You need to want this so bad, that you will practice this stuff... that you will DB... in your sleep... in your dreams...

You can dream to be that basketball star... but dreaming won't get you the goal... you need to get a ball in your hand and start tossing hoops... and with that practice, you get good... and then better... and then you become a star...

Convert all that energy and effort of knowing... into doing... and you'll see results...
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 10:26 PM
Kd you still confuse me. You make it sound like if I go in there and just listen and not react that things may possibly change
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 10:32 PM
What I need is a game plan where I stay focused and dont react
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/25/12 11:56 PM
OMG I am furious. She told my S6 that daddy is never sleeping at home again. Without talking to me. While he is still in school.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 12:22 AM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
What I need is a game plan where I stay focused and dont react


Remember this ^^^ and the 48 hour rule (at LEAST 24 hours) before you say anything.


Nothing you say MUST be said tonight and if you backslide, that's just more ground you have to make up.

Plus It just re-confirms HER choice to leave and reassurres her that YOU are the problem...

there is a reason YOU wrote that you need to learn NOT to react...

let your hard earned lessons pay off. Dig deep, change the traits in you that need changing and begin TODAY with something like this. It's an opportunity for you to SHOW change.

B/C if you handle this differently it's a 180 sign of CHANGE in you and

it could even be productive...you guys could even TALK and learn something about each other and have that interaction w/son be the "excuse" for triggering a decent talk. NOT about reconciling but

show her you can problem solve together...

OR if you decide, after some "ego free reflection" on your end - that she's just plain wrong and broke her word

OR violated an important boundary at your son's expense,

then we can help you express that in a way she can HEAR it.

The main thing for now is YOU calming down, NOT "reacting", &

assuring your child that you WILL see him again, often...regularly...

More later but hey, hang in there. Remember this is a marathon, not a sprint.
Posted By: MrBond Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 12:22 AM
Before you react, go and ask your W exactly what she told him. Then discuss it with her. Setup C with your son. You can't control crazy.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 12:30 AM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
If I could detach this whole process would be simple


Not easy to do, but it's not complicated when you understand it..so in that sense, YES detaching would make your life a lot simpler.

So, who is stopping you?


Here's a short post I saw about detachment. It's just a summary, but it may help you "get" this more than you are so far...


BTW- This was originally posted by Peanut.
============
II. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally all that is said, not said, done and not done. Our ego gets wounded and we say or do things that undermine our goals.

We can NOT control the actions of another. We are, however, responsible for our own actions. We are responsible for our own happiness.

If we are detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not the mind saying, "I am not getting what I want, So I must pull back."

It is the natural acceptance of the reality that "I am alone responsible for how I act. I cannot control another person, but I can control how I respond to them."
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 12:35 AM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
Sorry LA. Today went the exact opposite of what I planned. Can't even tell you what I was planning for today and actually what happened



hmmm, "planning" means you had a lot of "Expectations", which can lead to seriously hurt feelings

BUT


expectations don't exist, when you learn and CHOOSE TO DETACH


Like you said, this isn't complicated...it's hard, but it's NOT complicated.

DETACH.

Focus ONLY on you and your own work, without looking over your shoulder to see what SHE is doing/thinking/planning/feeling/saying

take charge of your life...for real
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 12:53 AM
Guys it is over seriously. She told my S Im not coming home cuz it is over. I can't even rationalize with her
Posted By: MrBond Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 01:00 AM
Did you talk to her about it? Not argue, but talk to her?
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 01:04 AM
Mr. B I tried to talk to her about it. She flipped out. Threatened to call cops. Take kids from me (cuz we don't have official plan) It is unbelievable.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 01:15 AM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
Mr. B am I reading this right. You're still DB and have been on here since 2008?


DBing is a life long process. Remember you first save YOU and then your r's in life improve and maybe, your m gets saved.

Regardless of marital outcome, the LBSer who works on themself by digging deep and bravely facing THEIR stuff & owning it (which means changing it, not just admitting you have it)

that person has done really important work on their lives. Valuable work.

Div Busting is a solution based approach to solving relationship conflicts. It's a problem solving method.


My Marriage is a work in progress & always will be.

Even when I feel like we're in a good place and I feel "safe"--I know not to be complacent again.

But this^^ makes me feel empowered, not paranoid.


I now know I can & will be happy in my life, with or without h or a man in my life. That's b/c I'm in charge of my life & happiness and I took charge of that when h left...

I became a much happier person, which apparently is attractive b/c I got asked out a lot back then, although I wasn't dating...

and h seemed to notice that whereas HE was lonely & sad, and confused,

I was growing into a happier healthier "funner" person...

HE missed that in me, and our life, and I came to realize that he was losing a lot more than me. (I think he realized it too).

I was becoming my best self and frankly, when h wanted to reconcile,

I paused...


b/c I was in a good place that took a lot of effort to get to.

I didn't want to go back to crazyland without some serious reassurances from h that things would be different/better...or forget it. He provided those.

So what are YOU doing to SHOW your w that marriage to you would be better/different than before?
What are the 180s?

See, if it's Not going to be better or different, then why should/would she want back in?

Yes, simply put, if your w does not believe marriage to you can change/improve she won't want to reconcile.

When she sees your anger and tension or feels it, you may as well give her a pen to sign the divorce decree...but

When you detach, you'll come to see that YOU are solely responsible for your happiness & you always were. Embrace that...


B/C it SEEMS that you want to make her in charge of how YOU feel and behave.

No offense net, b/c I know you are hurting.

But letting HER behavior dictate how YOU act, and then blaming her for it---

isn't fair to her, and I'm sorry to say, but it is Not really all that adult of you.

I was once like you are now. I had allowed someone else to determine how I felt about myself & my life.

Well, that won't ever happen again, and that knowledge is SO empowering.

Don't give someone else the burden (OR power) of being responsible for YOUR happiness.

As for how long you DB

hey Net - the changes you learn to make from DBing, are changes you make to become a better YOU. Keep it up.

SO YES, I'm still DBing...hope I always am.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 01:17 AM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
KD thx. That makes actual sense to me. I'm reacting to her rage which in turn is making it look like I haven't changed a bit.


BINGO
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 01:34 AM
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: netmaster
KD thx. That makes actual sense to me. I'm reacting to her rage which in turn is making it look like I haven't changed a bit.


BINGO


Print this and post it somewhere where you can see it. I think we've covered this with you a number of times now.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 01:37 AM
25thepoint I understand. But 25 it is over. Honestly it is really over. Yes I react to the rage if reacting is saying please do not treat and talk to me in that manner to her.

That causes her to threaten me to call cops and everything else. It is unbelievable. Hangs the phone up on me. Accuses me of having agendas and everything else in the book
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 01:53 AM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
Mr. B I tried to talk to her about it. She flipped out. Threatened to call cops. Take kids from me (cuz we don't have official plan) It is unbelievable.


Why do I get the feeling your version of "talking" to her, has big fat elements of rage in it?

Are you saying "She flipped out" b/c you calmly asked her to clarify something son said? Really?

You need some communication tools, which YOU sorely lack. She may lack them too, but for sure YOU do, and she's not here posting.

So please, Get some communication tools so you learn how to talk (or email if you have to) BUT without setting each other off...

even if you are only going to be co-parents together...

As for the mediation...

Why couldn't you just go to the mediator and LISTEN? Consider it a mission and your task was to 'gather intel"....not to decide anything then & there.

NO ONE will ask or force you to do that.

You LISTEN, you get information and then IF NEED BE,

you tell them you need TIME to reflect and ponder b/c you do not want to be impulsive.

As for her telling your son that you'll never come home...

I can see that it would hurt your feelings b/c you feel that it means things are hopeless AND OR, that it hurt son's feelings. I get that.

But why all the RAGE in your post? Did you even get the facts from her?

Son may have asked her directly if & when you were returning home. That's a natural question but she MAY have not been ready for the question. Ever think of that?

and since she felt that no change on your end had occurred, she told the truth as she saw it. She thought the marriage was over, and in effect she answered truthfully.

Also Net, be honest with us or at least yourself or you'll get nowhere fast AND you'll repeat this mistake in your next relationship OR this marriage if you two do give a reconciliation a shot.

See, I doubt she "flipped out" if you presented this to her in a way that was calm and not accusatory.

Heck, when I read your post the first thing I said was for you to calm down and that was from your written words...

so I cannot imagine you presented it in a way that would not trigger defensiveness in her.

Get information, Process it & reflect on your choices...Do NOT react. Keep it simple...

And tell me again, what the traits are that you want to work on most?

If there has been progress in that work, pat yourself on the back and keep it up. But if not, dig deeper.

Be brave. The real journey is an inward one. No more staring at HER or her actions.

Just MANage yourself and your personal work...stay in your sandbox and out of hers.

Lose the scorecard (b/c notice she has one too. On HER scorecard, you are way behind...and on YOURS, she's behind...)

So fyi, scorecards are worse than useless. Scorecards hurt marriages and never help them.

So, dropping that measuring scale of yours would be a 180. Learning to handle your anger and mouth would be 180s too,

(plus, you'll be happier!! So will the people around you).

Remember, you are modelling behavior for your children. Model some restraint.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 02:08 AM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
25thepoint I understand. But 25 it is over. Honestly it is really over. Yes I react to the rage if reacting is saying please do not treat and talk to me in that manner to her.

That causes her to threaten me to call cops and everything else. It is unbelievable. Hangs the phone up on me. Accuses me of having agendas and everything else in the book


Okay let's say it is over. You still have to co-parent. Together.

Get something temporary in writing, so you have clarity and so the expectations are known & easier to meet. It'll lessen the insanity.

If you need a 3rd party to witness the drop offs, so be it. If you need a witness to conversations you two have, so be it.

At some point you'll have to choose being happy over being "right".

Later on, Once you establish a co-parenting r with some boundaries

you may establish enough of a bond that your children will finally benefit (their benefit must be THE goal)...and maybe a friendship will take hold.

From there, who knows?


I have 2 family members who divorced and remarried their exes later...years later. So it happens...


How? In both marriages (meaning with all 4 people)

they worked on themselves in their own, specific important ways..not expecting a reconciliation, but wanting to be happy again.

One stopped drinking, another learned to deal with his temper a lot better...they all learned to forgive...

So in shortthey all changed. They just wanted to be happier in their own lives and were willing to do whatever that took.

I got to that point too. No more feeling like crap. I got sick & tired of feeling sick & tired and was willing to do WHATEVER it took to get ME to a happier place.

Turns out it was all up to me the whole time.

and, fwiw my family members who reconciled after divorce, said The 2nd time around was better...

PS


(Net--know this, The calmer you are in a conflict, the more power you will have during those conflicts...remember that...)
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 02:10 AM
Yes I probably put her on the defense. I think this whole process has strung me out beyond belief.

What would you recommend for communication tools?
Posted By: MrBond Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 02:20 AM
What did your C recommend to you when dealing with your anger issues?
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 02:21 AM
25year I wonder if she would be willing to counsel with me if I made it clear it was just for CO-PARENTING and no agenda to get back together.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 02:35 AM
MrB still working on the counselor with my anger and control issues. He truly believes they stem from my child issues. My biggest problem is recognizing I'm starting to react. That I'm starting to trigger.

I shouldn't have called her on this matter until the next day or I should have just sent her an email. I suspect that I probably made her feel like crap in my tone.

I sent her an email tonight and she read it and said she was ok with it. My email had a lot of "I understand your feelings". I understand what you are sayings in it.

25 I do feel that my DB going forward will be for co-parenting.

Also I read both books but if i were to reread 1 again would you say the 1st or 2nd one was better.

as far as mediator goes I am going to go and try to just listen and not react. It will be a test. I am not going to make any decisions there on impulse. My W may.
Posted By: MrBond Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 02:39 AM
Honestly I think your W is your biggest trigger. If you know that you are going to talk to her or have any interaction with her, then calm yourself before doing so.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 02:48 AM
Mr. B she is. It's hard to believe 10 days ago she as buying me pants to be honest. Crazy emotional roller coaster.

I'm starting to think we are not right for each other right now. You see my W is me. Yes that is right me. She has anger and communication issues as badly as me. We fight like 2 little kids. Cuz that is all we know. You see I'm trying to break my pattern but I need more time. I need more work. Actually I don't even know what I need to get my anger in check. Everytime I think I'm making progress this stuff happens.

you see I never detached from my W ever. Then the stress and then when my S said that tonight it completely wrecked me.

You know what it wasn't for the HOPE part of it 25. It was more angry because there are certain ways to address these issues with the kids. A certain way to sit down and explain it to them you see.

Anyways I'm going to bed. I sent her an email. She acknowledged it. Tomorrow we have a school event we have to attend together. Hoping it is civil. it should be
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 08:21 AM
You HOPE the school event is "civil"? Um, make sure it's civil.

You're a grown up man. Stop fearing that you'll lose your temper or spin out of control...

What's that say to your son about behavior and self control?

I mean, I had some "Losing control" moments of spewing, for sure...But at some point you have to KNOW you won't "lose it". If it takes meds for awhile, so be it. Just be in control of yourself.

In real life You have to be able to be in public without fears of being a jerk or turning it into a trailer trash reality TV show nightmare,

and or traumatic embarrassment for your son.

Put your son first and mean it. If you model that for your wife for long enough she'll be shamed into joining you and if she's not, so what? That's not your problem.

Her failures as a person, IF she has them, should not post in your "win" column, just as your successes in life are not in her "lose" column...it's not a contest between you two...YOU have to see that...

We attended Retrovaille which is for marriages in crisis (but decades ago we attended Essential Experience, which is for individual personal growth and I went by myself at first)

and they both have communication tools you'd benefit from. I hope you'll go. (Check out their websites)

And Don't let religion be an obstacle or excuse not to go to Retrovaille either.

Retrovaille is NOT something which drills religion into you at all. My h is not Catholic and trust me, he felt zero "pressure" and if he had, he'd have told me.

A retired priest was there IF you wanted to discuss issues with organized religion or if you had been hurt by the Church...which was brave, I thought...

At Retrovaille there were "guide" couples who have been thru hell & back and tell their stories in pieces, so you can process their hard learned lessons. Then you do your work and there's not public sharing, etc.

Even though I think counselling is excellent, if you mean weekly or twice weekly, I think you need more. You have behavioral issues and triggers you both need to handle b/c you do have a child together and something tells me there are underlying issues or anger and fear (and those are related anyhow)

in both of you that sets you off too much.


SOME couples (and individuals) benefit more from a retreat or weekend workshop b/c then the "therapy" is more efficient, you make more breakthroughs and you can break old patterns a lot faster. I know this from experience.

B/C when I went to see an IC whom I really liked, we'd sometimes really get somewhere in our sessions. I'd make a "breakthrough" or finally truly gain an insight, and sometimes I might get emotional...AND THEN,

BOOM "times' up..."

i had to go back to work (not fun for some of those insights to come right before a big meeting at work)

or pick up the kids, etc. interruptions really made it hard for me to re-group the next week and pick up where I left off, though sometimes it's nice to have the time to process it...it ALSO can mean rehearsing an answer and not being fully truthful...even to myself.


Workshops give you TIME to process the learned lessons and reinforce them. Frankly, I think that's what you will need. Plus they will model the tools for you. You'll "get" them. You'll leave with an action plan for your life and a lot of things will be covered and worked through BEFORE you leave...

Somewhere somehow you need to SEE the way others communicate w/each other, even when, especially when, they strongly disagree.

I suggest the "Essential Experience workshop" (aka "EE) b/c I've been to 3

different types of personal growth workshops ("Landmark", "est" and an "Intensive") and

EE was by far the best & deepest & most productive. Helped w/career stuff too, big time.

All things considered, grand scheme, it was also the cheapest. But I don't know where you live. It's an east coast thing and it's solution based and it changed my life. Literally it changed my life.

It's for individuals but obviously if one person goes, and changes, then the r's in that person's life changes...kind of like with DBing...

I went years ago for issues NOT directly related to my marriage, at least not in my opinion...but when h picked me up at the airport he said he could SEE changes in my look, my gait, my posture and energy level and he was right. I was happier than I'd ever been in my life.

He saw such profound changes in me from that 3.5 day workshop THAT

HE chose to go himself a few months later!! It was VERY helpful to him too...

We got a lot closer and THEN we went back, together...

(going back later is free, btw,

and there are no tricks to get you to spend more like a "next level, pay MORE" types of gimmicks where they promise something

-if you only write one more check, etc I felt that way about two of the other workshops I attended over the years. Sometimes work will pay for this by the way and EE is tax deductible. They may all be depending on your work...)

Neither my h nor I grew up seeing good communication between our parents.

As a L, I know I know HOW to communicate. I can make arguments and win cases in front of juries.

But it's different when there are emotions and pain involved. It's different when the issue is how my partner FEELS...and how I feel, and how much of it belongs to our marriage versus our childhood or work pressures, etc.

Just identifying which is which, is a start.

Like I said, getting tools for when you are NOT getting along is key. Anyone can "communicate" or give in or surrender or be uber kind...when ALL IS WELL.

It's when life throws you a curve ball, gets HARD, that we are most tested...and that's when a lot of us fail.

So get the tools...and USE THEM b/c right now from where I sit, you know some of this and yet choose not to follow the simple parts.

Do not react...do NOT react...You CAN decide not to react Net...come on.

As for which book is better, I say the latter (Divorce Remedy)

BUT only b/c it's more specific and spends less time explaining why divorce is bad.

I KNOW it's bad and undesirable. If YOU (or someone else) do NOT know that, then read them both again. Or the first one. I think Divorce Remedy is more like the 2nd edition of the book rather than a different one but like I said

if someone's not sure what they think about divorce, the first book has a ton of info about why it sukks for kids. The 2nd book has more suggestions about how NOT to get divorced...

My gut says you just don't want to change much. Or you don't want to save your marriage enough to be the one to change...first, or the most.

it strikes you as "unfair"...and I understand that. I felt since my h was the one who seemed "wrong" (and in most ways he was and I mean that as objectively as possible. It's NOT okay to want to leave your family b/c you like a JOB in a God forsaken place...and no one else could stand it there including your spouse...it's not okay)

but what do you DO with that? IOW so what if she's wrong and you are right?

You want to be right or you want to be happy?

You will find that ALL (yes I do think it's "all", literally)

of the successful couples here, begin with LBSers changing the most and for the longest and without measuring to see if the other changes 'enough"...so

lose that scorecard...and CHOOSE how YOU behave. CHOOSE what words come out of your mouth.

You can do this. You have to.

Or what? Be a single dad and get in a new r, and then HOPE you don't repeat the patterns??? "Hope" you can be civil?

"Hope" you don't lose control of yourself or

hope your new r does not trigger you spiraling?

Is that how you want to enter your future? If it were me (and it once was)

I'd want to know I'd left no stone unturned in trying to save my m and do right by my kids...AND

I'd want to know that

I had become the best spouse I could become...no way would I want ANY of this marital failure on my end, to stick.

I'd own my part but I sure as heck would not repeat it.

"Owning" it means changing it...do you get that?

You can't just say "I did that...hope I won't again"...

OR "but it's who I am"...and mean that you are selfish or dishonest but hey that's who you are...

no healthy person will want to be around that or deserves to be.

Be your best self. LEARN HOW to be that man (that's what retreats or workshops are for)

Get the discipline to become him (usually by practice in some form)

and then CHOOSE to be him.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 11:32 AM
25 I will research and go because i need this for me. I think i put the nail in the marital coffin the last week. It is mind blowing to me how we were getting along 10 days ago and this was even during the death of our dog. Oh well the past is the past.

I am going to research that course. I am on the EC.

I have anger issues. They are all learned from a very abusive upbringing that I'm really getting frustrated that I can't break. Very frustrated. Honestly I am not sure a 3 day workshop is going to fix me in any shape or form.

I need to fix this not react thing or its going to be a very long co parenting journey. Be right or be happy. I get it. There is a balance to from being a doormat.
Posted By: adinva Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 01:06 PM
Do you want to turn that anger on your beautiful children? Sweet little kids turn into challenging frustrating teens. You need to stop excusing your anger and talking about how hard this is for you. It's not easy for anyone, not any of us, to change. Decide who you'll be and keep doing the next right thing.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 01:21 PM
I've been working on anger issues for only 6 weeks now. I'm trying and will not stop. I do finally believe me and my W are not compatible though. But I want to work on my anger, lack of communication skills and lack of listening skills for me and my new future role in co-parenting.

It's a shame. I wish my wife would give me more time and I wish I learned how to communicate properly. I know i need to fix this badly. I know the areas that I need to work on badly. Not just for co-parenting but any sort of relationship.

Even though she is so nasty if I was a good listener and did not react no blow outs would happen because they couldn't by not reacting. Unfortunately I am not there yet. Not even close. But at least I recognize this. I will be researching that weekend communication thing that 25 mentioned. If for anything it will help me through the mediation process

Wish me luck. I am very sad today. It is painful. I really just want to ask her to be friends going forward. For the kids sake
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 01:22 PM
25 we have 2 children together
Posted By: adinva Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 01:43 PM
That's good net. Stay resolved. It isn't easy, and if one thing doesn't work plan the next thing you'll try. You've got to become who you are independent of what she or anyone else does in a given moment.
Posted By: adinva Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 01:44 PM
Also, visualize success. KNOW that you will solve your anger problem. Don't fixate on the short term of this not working or that taking time. Stay on the course and keep focused on the end point. Each slip up is a learning experience not a failure.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 01:58 PM
adinva I just get bent out of shape that my marriage is dissolving. Plus the last week it just turned so bad so quick. Almost like when she decided to pull the trigger she just got nasty to me. I'm going to try to be very strong through the 1st mediation appointment. I really wish she would council with me just to be good co-parents. Anways enough about her. Im going to continue to work on me. Im looking into a day job too
Posted By: adinva Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 02:29 PM
Your view of last week is as if W is on a linear course. She's not. Each moment is a moment. Each of our spouses spews. No one is in this sitch because their spouse was nice. Expect nasty. Follow the 37 rules, work on you. You know what to do.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 02:33 PM
Yes Adinva I understand but we are going Tuesday to start the divorce process. It's official. Unless some miracle happens. I talked to the mediator and he said once it gets to this point not many spouses turn back. He was being very honest with me. Told me to have open mind
Posted By: adinva Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 03:00 PM
That's probably true Net. What difference does knowing that make?

You're here at this point and it suxx.

Do you learn what you've realized you need to learn, or do you not bother because it won't stop the D.

What you are feeling is what the 37 rules were MADE for.
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 04:15 PM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
...we are going Tuesday to start the divorce process. It's official. Unless some miracle happens.


OK Net, this is your reality. How you deal with this reality will determine whether or not you come out of this better or worse for the wear.

You have been given some excellent advice over the past few months. One of the most important has to do with how you manage your emotions. What happened to all that work you were doing and progress you were making with your (I think it was a Tai Chi instructor)?

Now is the time to put all that you have learned into practice. Don't you agree? If you do, then do it and stop talking about it. Really!

Regarding miracles....make your own. Think positive, regardless of outcome. Chart your own course and move bravely forward.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 08:42 PM
Chi counselor. Positive energy or chi.

One thing I've beat myself up badly about the last few months is she makes me feel responsible for the state of her health. The adrenal fatigue, anxiety, panic attacks etc.. Do you think it is possible that I made her get sick. My counselor says no. She told me in one of our confrontations since youve been gone Ive felt great. I just can't believe that 1 person could make another person physically sick unless there was some sort of abuse or something. I really beat myself up bad because I truly feel if that is possible then I feel like a dirt bag.

Anyways 2thepoint. Im going to try to be non reactive. take the high road where i can. Try to be fair but not a doormat. I'm going to try to listen and let the mediator do the mediating. Its not going to be easy that is for sure.

I thought those 37 points were suppose to be used so you never reach the point I'm at
Posted By: adinva Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 08:46 PM
they are FOR the point you're at, so you can rescue yourself, and possibly your marriage
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/26/12 11:33 PM
I finally detached took an actual divorce process 4 me to do this.
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/27/12 01:04 AM
Just like that?
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/27/12 01:50 AM
Well I'm proud. Went to kids event . Kissed kids goodbye in front of her. Said goodbye and left with no guilt. In the past I would have buckled kids in car catered and felt guilty..

I'm nervous for tuesday. I want to try to listen for 1.5 hours and not talk. This is nearly impossible for a hamster on steroids
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/27/12 02:50 AM
Quote:
"I'm nervous for tuesday. I want to try to listen for 1.5 hours and not talk. This is nearly impossible for a hamster on steroids"


Then forego the steroid shot for the next few days and go see your Chi instructor just before your meeting so you come in feeling relaxed and in control.

Sound like a plan?
Posted By: Sad in WI Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/27/12 03:26 AM
Net,

I am praying for you brother.

SIW
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/27/12 10:53 AM
Yes and thanks
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/27/12 11:33 AM
I'm having trouble accepting divorce folks
Posted By: AprilT Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/27/12 11:59 AM
Net its just one door closing....God never closes a door without opening a window. Maybe this is what is needed to start a new relationship with her. The space and time that is needed to get everyone'e head right could be just what is needed here.

Have faith and send out your wishes to the universe. You have the power within you to make things the way you want them to be. Make it so.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/27/12 12:59 PM
Yes I think its the fact that she told my S dad is never sleeping at home again. That closed any hope I had.

Going to counseling now. Trying to completely detach
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/27/12 02:08 PM
My counselor says I won't detach until I cut the thread and accept that she is divorcing me
Posted By: AprilT Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/27/12 02:23 PM
Then take a breath and accept. Think of the Indy movie with Harrison Ford where he had to have faith that the bridge was there and take a step.

Take that first step Net....
Posted By: AprilT Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/27/12 02:24 PM
Just because this chapter is closing doesn't mean the book is finished.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/27/12 06:09 PM
Is obsessive crying normal. I've been so upset all day.
Posted By: LIO Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/27/12 06:36 PM
Hi Netmaster,
I'm new here but I read your thread and I think that one thing that has been helping me cope better was this thought:

Have you ever seen those money trees? The braided tree? I figure that is us. We are all born with our own path our own root, as our spouses are. We each make own choices and may disagree with the others' choices. We are not responsible for their health, for their thoughts, for their emotions. Nor are they for ours.

Our trees become intertwined at different points in life, where we feel secure with each other. But the tree needs to grow. Sometimes a branch will veer off, and it may come back on it's own, or it may be 'trained' (which I take as a higher power). Most importantly, on our own, our root WILL survive. Just keep upright.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/27/12 08:43 PM
Thx LIO.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/27/12 10:15 PM
I have a feeling Kd and everyone else following hamster aren't surprised that this day has come
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/28/12 04:55 AM
Reminder, Net......take slow deep breaths!
Posted By: 2chiquitos Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/28/12 06:35 AM
Let go of all this worry and leave it up to God. Pray every moment a thought gets in your head. Shift your thinking.

BTW: I bought the Self Esteem Workbook and Feeling Good. It has helped me a lot!!

Praying for you net!!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/28/12 07:37 AM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
Yes Adinva I understand but we are going Tuesday to start the divorce process. It's official. Unless some miracle happens. I talked to the mediator and he said once it gets to this point not many spouses turn back. He was being very honest with me. Told me to have open mind


Not sure what his point was in "being honest" and then saying "have an open mind" means or how useful it was.

What's it mean to say "it's official"? She files...okay...so?

It's a piece of paper that BEGINS a process...but it changes nothing about the existence of your children or your marital history. When she has time (and space) the better memories will resurface if you let her feel them...without you challenging her choices so much, b/c as I said, when you challenge those choices you force her to defend them...

AND BTW

In our state, a third of marriages filed do Not ever get completed.

And even some people divorce only to remarry later--I know it happens b/c I have two family members who did it. But they remarried years later.

Even as you speak of wanting another chance - in the next breath you reveal that you have not changed yet.

So you are not really ready for another chance b/c by your own admission you will repeat your same mistakes...

so why bother?

Work on YOU & ONLY YOU

so that if and when you do have the chance to co-parent,

well then maybe you can stay calm, then be friends, then be comfortable AND SAFE around each other...

and things can grow from there.


You're right that a 3-4 day workshop won't "fix" everything of course. It's a jump start that is faster than weekly T, that's all. It also will give you insights into HOW and WHY you can stop these reactions and you will get TOOLS for that.

But you will need and do follow up and since you are on the EC and there are support groups for you, (all free) you can keep going.

This IS within your control.

The idea that you cannot help yourself or control your behavior is a little crazy sounding on one hand, and or, just not that mature on the other hand.

I don't know an adult male who'd say that out loud.

So you MUST work on it.

Otherwise you'll end up killing someone or going to jail. I mean, really...what else am I to think?

To me it means either you really have a psych problem (so see a shrink)

OR if it's only your wife who gets you this way (still NOT HER FAULT how YOU choose to react)

it may mean you fear the content of her words is true...

whereas if she said "H, you seem like a purple dinosaur with a foot fetish"

you would scoff at her like she's nuts. You would not be "angry" or yell at her that she's lying and you are NOT a purple dinosaur...would you?

Wouldn't you realize that Her comments are not based on "real data"

so you would not care, right?

There'd be no trigger (I HOPE!!)

but if she says you are selfish or neglectful or unromantic, THOSE comments can hurt b/c maybe you fear they are true...so examine the content.

IF there really is not any truth to them, LET THEM Go...act as if she just accused you of being a purple dinosaur like a wino on the street might...and say, "who cares???" And mean it!

BUT

If there is some truth to her comments, work on those traits and soon you'll have solved them...and then there won't be ANY truth to her comments-

and no triggers either. Make sense?
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/28/12 12:08 PM
My wife gets me this way and I'm learning I act this way sometimes because of my childhood issues and triggers. I act immature because believe me that is all I was exposed to and now I need to figure it out and get rid of it.I'm learning to identify them but it takes more time as I'm learning. I plan on attending that workshop. There is one nearby me. (45 minutes) I emailed the guy and will call him.

I know what I have to work on believe me. I'm just not that calm do to these circumstances. Almost like when everything is good I'm good. When everything is bad I'm really bad. No middle. That is where I need help.

What was the next breath statement after 2nd chance that said i wasn't ready?
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/28/12 01:29 PM
Also in my state. Mediation is the process of dividing assets and kids.

It's maturity during conflict. I've had no tools how to communicate. From the age of 3-11 I saw my father beat the pulp out of my mother (until she finally left him) This is all learned immature behavior that I'm working on but I'm telling you it takes time and lots of work. Then mix in the stress of this actual process it feels like I stand at the base of a mountain everyday. NO EXCUSES. I'm doing the work but it seems impossible somedays.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/28/12 02:05 PM
also where I really get emotional and triggers me to call MIL is the kids. Even though I wasn't the greatest husband I was the greatest dad. I am a very active and involved father. Always have been. I coach my S in everything and go to everyone of my D's events. I play with my kids and they love me. I've always been good with kids including other kids.

So this is a trigger. Because I MISS them so much. I went from 100% dad with time to about 40%. I'm not getting use to it at all. I miss them terribly. Even today I picked S up for 1/2 event and dropped him off. Its painful for me. I get so emotional and sometimes bitter. Yes bitter. Like "how can she do this to me" victim I know. but this is HOW I feel.

It is a huge trigger. Like when my S goes to a park with another father and his S and I'm like that should be me.

It hurts. I even think that is what I miss more then my W. The family life.
Posted By: adinva Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/28/12 02:34 PM
Are you giving your kids what they need or are you filling your own needs through your kids?
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/28/12 03:15 PM
I'm giving my kids what they need of course. I've ALWAYS been a great father and Dad. But there are boundaries back up now. So on her weekend there is no more hanging out like a family.

My plan before Tuesdays mediation is I'm meeting wiht my counselor for 2 hours on that day so I will be relaxed and in control. I will not react just listen and let the mediator handle her.

Everything is coming to a head right now so I've been super emotional.
Posted By: ThisDayForward Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/28/12 03:16 PM
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2241409&#Post2241409
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Recently Seperated Part 9 - 04/28/12 05:52 PM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
My wife gets me this way

NO she does not. YOU get you this way. She is not responsible for how YOU react. Period. Once you grasp that concept, as basic as it is, you'll have made real progress. It's called "owning" your actions and taking responsibility for yourself.

If your older child hit the younger child, and said it's b/c the younger child "Made him do it" and therefore the older child did not want to apologize b/c after all, the older child HAD to react that way...

what would you say?

To me, It is exactly what you are saying about your behavior and your w's role in it. IF someone triggers you and you decide NOT to handle it, which is what you seem to be saying

then avoid the trigger at all costs.


IT's worse to react the way you react, then to avoid them altogether.

Until you decide to control your behavior, you only have 2 options. Either Poorly reacting or not being around so there is NO reaction...You've put yourself into that situation by insisting you are not accountable if she's around.

SO
Choose the 2nd option (not being around) until you are lonely enough & miss your kids enough, that maybe you'll decide they are worth it and you want to change for good.

and I'm learning I act this way sometimes because of my childhood issues and triggers.

you mean you learnED to act this way as a child?

OKay so, when do you think you should UNlearn that? When do you have to be a man and not a boy? After all, you're a father now.

If you think you learned bad behavior from your father, ask yourself what you are teaching your kids now...

Is it that much different than what you learned?

OH now I realize you are not violent (I assume) and I appreciate that...it's pretty basic to not be violent, but at least you improved on that.

THING IS, I would bet your father blamed your mom for HIS reactions, didn't he? HE said she "made him so mad" I bet...

so in that sense, you are repeating that cycle. Don't.


We all have childhood crap. My dad was brilliant and well educated, and a raging alcoholic for most of my childhood...

I don't get to react to my husband as if he is my father, or to my boss as if he is my father, etc. Recognize what is baggage from the past and keep it there, in the past. You don't have to walk around with the chains from the past traumas...

you can let them go and learn new paths and frankly, you have to...

or be doomed to a life that repeats your childhood AND you'll pass that on to your children..



I act immature because believe me that is all I was exposed to and now I need to figure it out and get rid of it.I'm learning to identify them but it takes more time as I'm learning.


Not sure what this^^ means...it takes more time to what? TO Stop and think? Well, that's true. Seems to me a few seconds or a minute of processing your emotions
so you react appropriately, is not a waste of time - but a great use of it.


I plan on attending that workshop. There is one nearby me. (45 minutes) I emailed the guy and will call him.


I hope you do. I really do...If you actually do it, it'll be a turning point in your life. So we'll see if you go. I'm not trying to doubt you but it's easy to say you'll "go to that thing" but it's a whole other matter to follow thru. Again, I hope you do b/c I think it'll change your life. I know it will. But you have to get there. (And make sure you tell them you heard of it on this site--not b/c we get a "kickback" or anything, but b/c they seem to be impressed with this site as several DBers have attended but EE didn't know about this site, so it's nice PR for DBing.)


I know what I have to work on believe me. I'm just not that calm do to these circumstances.

you're doing it again. You are making an excuse for how you react...Stop that. Be in charge of yourself or get out of the area. And never buy a gun.


Almost like when everything is good I'm good. When everything is bad I'm really bad. No middle. That is where I need help.


This ^^^^ is my MOST and LEAST favorite quote of yours...

Net, think about that statement...

Pretty much EVERYONE is "good" when "everything is good"...that's not what tests people.

Bad times, stressful events, crises, THOSE TEST US and it's how we act THEN, that shows our character.

That's what I tell my kids when they date. Be with that person when times are NOT good, and see how they problem solve...do they blow up and blame?

Or do they focus on finding a solution? This is a fundamental test of adulthood and leadership and character. It's part of being a good father Net.

I SO hope you change your ways b/c I sense you really want to but you don't know what it looks like.
One thing I'd suggest now for you, is to surround yourselves with happier more functioning couples.

If you are around wife beaters, drunks, violent people, people who commit crimes, cheat on their spouses or at work,

AVOID THEM. Don't let that poison in your life or it's all you'll know.

My h and I learned that lesson a long time ago. We knew a couple who we liked as individuals but together they were toxic.

They fought a lot and there was always tension in every comment, hidden or implied meanings, or SO THEY THOUGHT...and after we'd be around them for awhile, a lot of times WE got edgy with each other.

So we started weeding those couples out. And we began hanging with couples who liked each other, didn't criticize each other or "tease" with a mean streak in it. People who genuinely enjoyed their children without making the kids reflect ON THEM....

and it helped OUR marriage and our parenting...food for thought.

You'll get more tools at EE but for now look at the people in your lives. Do your family members repeat the behavior of your parents?



What was the next breath statement after 2nd chance that said i wasn't ready?


I don't know what this^^^ means. Maybe it's a partial sentence.
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