Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: dbmod THE VETS - 04/19/12 02:53 AM
I was just giving advice to someone to contact 'the vets' for advice.

But WHO ARE THEY....

FOLKS WHO ARE SUCCESSFUL DBers...those who have used DB SKILLS TO

REPAIR THEIR MARRIAGES/RELATIONSHIPS
REBUILD THEIR OWN LIVES even if their marriage ended



SO--are you a DB VET???


Tell us

  • WHO YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE
  • WHY YOU WERE SUCCESSFUL WHY YOU WERE SUCCESSFUL
  • WHICH DB TOOLS YOU USED




EQUALLY--recommend someone using the same list.


PLEASE RECOMMEND ACTIVE MEMBERS ONLY.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 03:28 AM
Off the top of my head, that are still fairly active in many of the forums... I know I'm missing some of them:

25yrsmlc
sandi2
cat04
truegritter
Mr. Bond
Cadet
AJM
NCL (formerly LC4)

geeze... so many to list... ALL successful...
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 03:37 AM
starsky309
mindfull
snodderly
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 04:08 AM
lol... look at them all, so shy... but when someone needs help, there they are... all showin' up and giving support and advice...

c'mon you guy and gal vets... post your MOs and DB CVs... grin
Posted By: fightingforit Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 04:10 AM

I haven't been on here long, I love the advice I get from 25yrsmlc, she puts a lot of personal attention and thought into what she writes, and she makes me look at myself honestly. Cheers to her!
Posted By: dbmod Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 05:26 AM
Kaffe Diem
JackThreeBeans
Truegritter
desert rat
kml
2thepoint
Denver_2010
jbnati
Queen_of_Swords



(If you belong here, and I/we've missed you, just jump in...this is winging it: MLC/Piecing/SSM forums are FULL of oldtimer/vets with special knowledge)



the important thing is .... the specific questions above
Posted By: dbmod Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 05:39 AM
Tell us

  • WHO YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE
  • WHY YOU WERE SUCCESSFUL WHY YOU WERE SUCCESSFUL
  • WHICH DB TOOLS YOU USED



This is the stuff that helps EVERYONE become SUCCESSFUL, lets use this as a time not only to appreciate those who have helped us/others but also...

to figure out WHAT WERE THE SKILLS that were helpful, that's what we all need...USEFUL SKILLS!!!
Posted By: dbmod Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 05:45 AM
jlove (using Retrouvaille w/DB) Appears to have tried changing communication, backing off (180/LRT); knows when to back off, knows when to step in and get warmer.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 06:13 AM
ok, I think it's absolutely ridiculous for me to be in the vet club, but I will simply start as an example to the vets as to how this works:

WHO YOU ARE
+ 44 yo; w: 46; married 11 yrs; 2 kids

WHY YOU WERE SUCCESSFUL
+ probably because I got my mojo back
+ broke a number of negative patterns in myself
+ learned a lot more stuff about relationships that will serve me well in the future

WHICH DB TOOLS YOU USED
+ primarily LRT (M was severely broken when I found DB)
+ a number of 180s (breaking negative patterns and behaviours)
+ a touch of GAL (but not too much... wink )
Posted By: dbmod Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 06:28 AM
love it
Posted By: Truegritter Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 11:59 AM
Mach1
2step
Countrysong
Posted By: SunFunOne Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 12:12 PM
I've been here over 10 years - originally on MLC forum - now on Surviving the Big D. First as travel barb then as BarbieDoll now Sunfun.

I'm 56, divorced, survived but thrived.

I posted my advice on the column on Surviving. Not good at copying and pasting but if you want to go there and read or copy it here - be my guest.

Barb
Posted By: SunFunOne Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 12:12 PM
I've been here over 10 years - originally on MLC forum - now on Surviving the Big D. First as travel barb then as BarbieDoll now Sunfun.

I'm 56, divorced, survived but thrived.

I posted my advice on the column on Surviving. Not good at copying and pasting but if you want to go there and read or copy it here - be my guest.

Barb
Posted By: cat04 Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 12:31 PM
Ok to add some more to the list...

I had a post that disappeared to the ether...
frown

Brookie
SeekingAnswers
Beatrice
Gabbysmom
Mach1 (although I see Grit beat me to it because of a computer glitch)


Why am I successful-
-I learned a ton of stuff about myself and learned to like myself again.
-I learned how to create a decent relationship with X and a great relationship with BF
-I learned how to be happy with myself and break codependent patterns
-I broke behavior patterns within myself that i didn't like

What techniques did I use--

-Gal to figure out who I am, what I like, what I don't like etc...
-180's to change things about me that both X and I didn't like (mostly stuff I didn't like
-Boundaries-to stop allowing myself to accept behaviors that were damaging to me into my life
-the 48 hour rule (not so sure that is in the book)-to stop my tongue from using the mind it has to react and allow my brain to form conscious actions
-dark-to remove myself from the situation until I was on firmer ground with in myself to be able to use all of the other techniques...
Posted By: kat727 Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 01:14 PM
I have been on here over 4 years, divorced nearly 4 years. I have 4 wonderful kids and some great friends and family.

Why I am successful:
I am happy in my own skin.
I am not defined by a relationship or lack of one.
I put the needs of my kids right up there with mine and we got through it.
I took responsibility for my part of problems in our marriage but not for his choice in having an affair which was the nail in the coffin.
I took lessons I learned in other parts of my life and applied them to my life now.

What techniques I used:

I stopped going down cheese less tunnels.
I got out of my comfort zone and made myself do something's I wasn't used to doing.
I did a 180 in that I stopped focusing on him and making him see reason and moved the spotlight on to me and how I wanted my life to be.
I clipped out pictures of places I wanted to go, pictures of confident, care free women and focused on the positives.
I stepped back from situations that were too hard for me. I helped people that were just a bit behind me in the process. This helped a great deal.

I will try to come by. This has been a hard place for me to visit. Another step to work on. smile

Best wishes, kat
Posted By: ncl Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 03:00 PM
Wow, KD, I am honored that you would consider me a "vet." Thank you! I would like to add that the advice you give others is always thought-provoking and in line with MWD's DB/DR standards. Additionally, you refrain from telling folks here what they "must do," and you do not show judgment for the mistakes people have made. When you deliver 2x4s, it is done gently and with kindness, compassion and encouragement. You are definitely an asset to this community!

When I comment on other threads, I always let the DB'er know that I am NOT a professional (that's what the DB coaches are for!) and that I have done many, many wrong things in trying to save my marriage before I started doing the right things. In fact, much can be learned about what NOT to do from my threads! blush I do my best to support and encourage the people on this board and share my success story of my currently reconciling marriage with them. I truly had a seemingly hopeless situation, and now I am reconciling with my husband! I am not completely out of the woods yet, but my marriage is back on track and growing in an honest, open, giving and loving way I never believed was possible. I owe my success to MWD, her amazing books and this online community. I am also grateful for the grace of God, and my faith is a big part of my story (however, tolerance of all individuals and their beliefs is important to me, and I do not push my faith on others).

I also tell others that there is no guarantee that following the DB/DR standards will necessarily save their marriage; however, if they follow MWD's advice, they will save themselves and without a doubt, become a better person.

What worked for me was learning to truly detach and step off of the emotional roller coaster. This isn't easy and takes time to do so, but it is very, very important. I also put working on my marriage on hold (it wasn't something my husband had ANY interest in doing at that time anyway) and worked on me....establishing my own personal goals. I also started practicing generous giving of myself to others and showing gratitude for the wonderful people and blessings in my life. GAL is of course important as well as avoiding those cheeseless tunnels. TRUE FORGIVENESS is key! Also, I've learned how to establish and loving enforce boundaries as well as respect my husband's boundaries. There are so many, many other things I have learned here in addition to these.

Reading other's stories have brought great comfort to me as well as given me ideas about what I need to do. I don't believe 25 has ever commented on any of my threads, but reading her story as well as her advice on other threads has been very helpful to me. What an asset she is to this community! I am also grateful for the "virtual" friendships I have made in this community. I consider each one a blessing.
Posted By: Drew Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 03:32 PM
"There comes a time in your life, when you walk away from all the drama and people who create it. You surround yourself with people who make you laugh. Forget the bad, and focus on the good. Love the people who treat you right, pray for the ones who don't. Life is too short to be anything but happy. Falling down is a part of life, getting back up is living."
Posted By: AprilT Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 03:36 PM
Well said Drew--well said!!!!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 03:38 PM
I agree with April! I really like that, great reminder!!
Posted By: needgrace Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 04:30 PM
Love this thread. Hope other vets stop by with more about their stories and what worked for them. Thank you!!
Posted By: mindfull Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 04:33 PM
I'm really just here for Autumn... smile But, thank you, KD!
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 05:51 PM
I'm just here for the cheese fries. smirk


Starsky
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 07:33 PM
I was wondering where those cheese fries went... confused
Posted By: RoRoinMD Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 07:41 PM
Can I get my own vet DBer too? Just saying, it doesn't hurt to ask. :-)
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 07:47 PM
Roroin so we get to chose one? Oh man let me chose one that h8tes 2x4s and has a car.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 08:13 PM
You two... *sigh*...

You only get a vet if you whine and cry and are clingy and do 180s on the 37 rules... and other inappropriate LBS behaviours...

I'm tellin' ya... newbies, sometimes... grin

OK Rick... you be Merry Land's vet, k... smile

Hey, where's some other vets putting their efforts of success, here?
Posted By: RoRoinMD Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 08:38 PM
Dang. Guess I'm screwed then. Back to my lonely thread. *scurries away*
Posted By: jbnati Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 08:47 PM
I may have a relative high number of posts out there but I in no way, shape, or form consider myself a vet. I am just one of those struggling through the journey like everyone else.

For me, GAL'ing has been the best thing I could have ever done for myself. It's helped to make me a better person, and I've met a lot of fantastic people because of it.

I can ncl/lc4 has gotten me out of the weeds and back on to the road numerous times.

Although I don't think 25 has ever posted to me, I read many of her posts and I get a lot out of them. There are times that's all I have.

I don't want to forget JustStunned, who was one of the first posters to me, and got me on track to starting to think rationally.

Of course, who can forget Kraft Dinner...uh er I mean Kaffe Diem?

Rick1963 is always there with lots of support.

There's many others I read the posts from to others:
- MrBond
- Mach1
- sandi2
- Cadet
- And many, many others I cannot think of right now.

THANK YOU EVERYONE!! cool
Posted By: Cadet Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 10:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Rick1963
Oh man let me chose one that h8tes 2x4s and has a car.

If I get a car I want a CORe-VETte

smile smile smile
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: THE VETS - 04/19/12 11:17 PM
Cadet if u are going through ur own MLC lemme know. We can talk and well ,help u. Lol
Posted By: mindfull Re: THE VETS - 04/20/12 12:09 AM
Rick. That's hilarious. If its red, we're tying him down and force-feeding DB principles on him!!!
Posted By: ncl Re: THE VETS - 04/20/12 02:20 AM
Originally Posted By: jbnati
I can ncl/lc4 has gotten me out of the weeds and back on to the road numerous times.


JB, I'm happy to be waiting for you in the weeds anytime...I know the weeds well, considering how much time I have spent in them after veering off course myself! crazy

I count you among the best of DB'ers...the king of GAL. Really, you make the rest of us look pretty pathetic! wink

In all honesty, you have been a real blessing to me on this board. Much is to be learned from you.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: THE VETS - 04/20/12 05:06 AM
you're a vet all right, jb... a true inspiration to all of us in the game of GAL. grin
Posted By: Gypsy Re: THE VETS - 04/20/12 12:31 PM
Hello one and all..

My heart goes for the pain of this situation but you're in one of the best places to grow.

What about me? I was 52 when my husband of 25 years left, just left after saying it was all my fault. I later found out it was to the home of his much younger paramour who he has since married and have a child. My three kids at the time were 13, 17 and 21. Early on in our marriage we'd agreed that I'd stay home with the kids as he aggressively pursued his career.

Why am I successful? Well.. I'd have been more successful if I knew what I know now! But then again there is that pesky learning curve. Taking the hard knocks to learn and grow, regardless of divorce or reconciliation, teaches you how to have a healthy relationship.. with your self and others.

What is success? For me it was a combination of things. Reading the DB book among others, coming here and learning from others and going to a counselor all while desperately treading in a vortex of emotional chaos and pain.

Some simple rules to live by:

1. My signature below my name.

2. If it's right, do it
If it feels wrong, don't.
If you can't decide or waffle, the answer is no.

3. It's not the fall, but how you regain your balance.

And since my posts are usually wayyyyy too long posts, I'll just stop for now.

*hugs*
Posted By: Mach1 Re: THE VETS - 04/20/12 04:22 PM
Who am I ?

STB-45yo, -----divorced, Father of 2 wonderful children.

I was 40 when my darling little MLCer .......... R-U-N-N-O-F-T


Lookin for answers I suppose.






Why was I successful ?


I would suppose that successful varies from person to person, depending on what their version is. In retrospect, I wasn't very happy before the bomb. Life had became very mundane , and I was looking for happiness everywhere, except where I should have been looking for it. The daily pain that I felt afterward , was mostly caused by myself. My fears had actually become a goal that I worked toward, and until I realized that they were MY fears, and overcome them, then I would remain in that pattern that I had set for myself.

I learned that working through those fears, and staring them down, was the only way to go through such an amazingly painful period of self-growth and awareness within myself, for myself, and by myself. I learned that I HAD to overcome those things in order to be of any use to myself, or my children.

I see myself as a success, because even though I am Divorced, I still honor my vows. I have let go of the anger, the fears, the control. I can balance that with the new relationship that I am in, and can define who I am for myself, and within my relationship. I am a man that is capable of making better choices and decisions that affect the people I love.



Things that I learned DBing...

I learned that there are a million ways to climb a hill, and what is right for one person, may not be right for another...

I learned that most people don't have the burning desire to be "right", as much as they have a burning desire to be heard...

I learned (finally) the difference between Lance, Cadet, and Old Pilot..... : )

I learned that everyone's opinion counts. Some toward the better, some toward the worse...

I learned that I will never stop growing emotionally, and that I learn something every day. Usually from a place where I least expect it to come from...

I learned that Starsky and I actually agree on much more than each of us thinks we do.... : )

I learned that Virginia really doesn't like outside links , and will "ban" pretty quickly. (especially to certain websites)...

I learned that Virginia is a forgiving person, and practices DB very well.......

I learned that "honoring your vows" doesn't have anything to do with your spouse...

I learned that having an argument on the internet, is a futile waste of time and headspace...

I learned that LostPhil...may still be lost...

I learned the difference between the two LRT's listed, and that the one in DB isn't the same as the one in DR...

I learned that I would rather have one or two friends that really tell me the truth, than to have a thousand friends that will blow sunshine up my backside....

I learned that those one or two....may not be who you think that they are....

I learned that some people just want to be angry, and really enjoy being a victim of another's choices....no matter how hard one tries to help them....

Ohhh.....and I learned what love really means, what friendship really means, what trust really means, what forgiveness really means....




What DB tools did I use ???

-180
-GAL
-Being Banned
-48 hour rule ( which SHOULD be in the book )
-Being Re-instated
-cheeseless tunnels
-setting boundaries
-going dark, and LRT



Vets ?

Wow, such a hard list.....and I know that you said current posters.

I just hate to see such wisdom from such wonderful people get buried in the archives.....

I would have to say, that my first Thank You, would be to.......


Forrest Gump...

I learned a lot from reading that guy....




Then, in no particular order..... (and if I left you out, I apologize)....

Chocolate eyes ; )
Bworl
Jeanette1120
Kikifree
Sofaraway
AmyC
Faithisbelieving
Frank_D
Lissett
Figgy (Figgeroni )
BegginnersMind/Brooklyn/Brookie
Fisherman/Trapt
Jimbo
Cat04
The Pirate
The Brokeback Cowboy (Gritter)
CD Bear
Ericmsant2
MHL
Punktman
Seeking Answers
AJM
Mr Bond
Drew


I would recommend searching the archives, and reading from any of these people....



There are some really great posters here now too....

Labug --------- Adinva
Purg --------- Accuray
BF --------- 2TP
Rick89 --------- Sayitisn'tso
The Monkey ----- CES1967
Kaffe


They are exhibiting what this site is about....true growth in the face of adversity...

Oh.....and Rick1963 : )
Posted By: Underdog Re: THE VETS - 04/20/12 05:59 PM
Wow, wish this had been a topic when I started this journey in 2003. I might have come to some better conclusions a bit faster had I pondered them. Maybe not.

And some of my dearest friends I met here. Wouldn't trade that for the world. (Back when they didn't sanitize the info we shared so we got together.)

I'm now 50 (yikes) and not seeing anyone. I'm really happy in my own skin and not being in a R. I'm not even sure I really want one in the future. I won't rule that out, but it would have to be someone completely and utterly special for me to screw up the happy life I've created on my own with my girls. We were legally separated for 2 years and got D in 2005.

I worked hard at utilizing as many DB skills as I could. Laurie was a great resource for me, and I tracked what I did and the results. If they were not working, I analyzed why and how much time I lost gaining ground I had lost. That was an eye opener. My main motivation was our 2 girls, who were 8 and 5 when I started this painful journey. I simply wanted them to live in a house with 2 parents who loved each other and them too.

My most successful technique was to invoke a 24 hour rule in responding to anything emotional, and strike when the iron was cold. In fact, I still utilize this technique with others today. It forces me to consider how other people feel and to allow their perceptions and feelings to weigh in.

My girls are now 18 and 15, and the oldest leaving for college in August. She became a competitive volleyball player at the age of 11 right after our D, which oddly enough, was the path for her dad and me to really rekindle our friendship and focus on our commitments as parents. I had reservations when she started, as at the time I thought it would be weird and awkward to continually share a courtside with him or travel with him. Nothing was further from the truth.

By the time she was 14, her teammates and their parents all seemed perplexed that we were divorced. Our daughter got a real kick out of it. She still does. We enjoy her, the sport, the cameraderie of the community, and oddly enough, we found out that we genuinely care about each other as friends. He's got a serious GF now, whose daughter also plays competitive volleyball. D18 is still not completely into seeing her dad with GF, but I'm leading by example and supporting them. He was surprised at it, but heck, I even surprised myself. That verbal support followed by my actions has been the most recent pivotal point in our R. I told him that he had my blessing to love and be loved in a R that we couldn't do between ourselves. I've been reaping some big rewards with him ever since. I know that my actions speak louder than my words, and I'm keeping my word. laugh

Today, my D18 tells me that she really can't remember much about her life with her dad at home, and can't believe we were ever attracted to each other. While it makes me laugh, it kind of makes me sad. Why can she get that at 18 and I didn't get it at 40?

My biggest piece of advice to all the newcomers is to work on forgiveness. You need to do that anyway if you DO reconcile, so get working on it. It will help your relationship with everyone around you, especially your children.

Don't spend any time keeping score... or badmouthing your spouse. Kids pay attention. Eliminate the word *should* from your vocabulary. It means you have an expectation on someone that is probably not been verbalized, appreciated or agreed upon. Your hidden contracts with that person will come into play now, and you will be exposed for your faults and mistakes. *Man up* and accept your role in the breakdown of your marriage.

And as SunFunOne said (hey Barb!), quit living in denial! Quit telling people that you were happy until XXX happened (fill in the blank). Your marriage was as strong as the weakest link. And if your spouse is/was unhappy, your marriage was not happy! It probably meant that you were getting your way, but they had less of a voice... or you punished them in some way for disagreeing with you. That's the voice of personal experience speaking here.

My XH and my parents and siblings have remained close, as I have with his family. We both worked hard (okay, I worked harder) to keep things as normal for our girls as we could. The biggest thing I've done right in my entire life was making them the priority without fail. It might be my biggest accomplishment in life ever. Although they love their dad beyond belief, D18 tells me every so often that she knows who the person who chose them over selfishness was me... and that wherever I live will be her home.

And for those of you who are waiting for your spouse to tell you they regret the choices they made? Surprise... it won't bring you any joy. It's like witnessing someone caught for a murder, but the murdered person is still dead. I've heard it... and recently... that if he could change things now, he would. He's reaping the consequences from his decisions, and he knows it. So what. You were right. There is no consolation prize for that. Ever. That's how you know you've forgiven them... the only way this could make you happy is if you haven't.

I know it seems completely unfathomable that you could visualize a happy life without them, but trust us. You can. Believe that you have happiness in your future no matter what, and try to learn as much from this experience as you can. The DB skills you employ now only help you to become a better person and a better partner to someone new down the road.

Best wishes to all you who are just beginning this journey. It's painful and tough, but the lessons learned are priceless if you choose them.

smile Betsey
Posted By: Broken74 Re: THE VETS - 04/20/12 06:54 PM
I just wanted to say thanks to all the vets, and everyone here for contributing to such a valuable resource to those in need. Not everyone who has taken the time to provide me help may be on the vet list but I thank you all from the bottom of my heart for your time and heartfelt advice.

Kaffe Diem
25yearsmlc
Rick1963
cat04
labug
oneleven
2thapoint
Grmpy_Mnky
Mach1
barelyfloating
Yasu MrBond
ben11

If I missed anyone my sincere apologies. I have always been given good advice, unfortunately for me I didn't always follow it, but I am in a much better place now than when I came here and for that I sincerely thank all of the members of this forum, who have posted to me or anyone else here because so many opinions all over this board have helped me at times.

Thank you and good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: THE VETS - 04/20/12 07:15 PM
Who am I?

I'm a woman who is now over 50 but not freaking out about it b/c I take care of myself. So does my h, I have to say. He is in GREAT shape and coincidentally, his Army Reserve unit is being deployed so being in great shape is a real Godsend now.

What did I learn?

Since there are literally 6 years of DB lessons, along with what I learned at Retrovaille and the workshop I attended, (& later my h) I'm going to have to truly condense this...But condensing for ME, might not be condensed for others I fear...

I don't think success is defined as staying married but I know it helps for newbies to see that some do. We did and that was a surprise.

So first off, I'll say that DBing obviously CAN work to save a marriage b/c without it, I'd be divorced. I'm positive of that statement.


For me, DBing changed a few big myths I had in my life, along w/several behaviors of mine. (Note that I said nothing about my h there.)

What did I change/learn?

1) I stopped asking WHY my h was doing what he was doing. It wasted way too much time, had no answer that would satisfy ME and in all likelihood, H did not know. (He cannot adequately explain some of his behaviors to me even now. He really does seem to have forgotten some of the things he said or did).

I learned that wasting that time wondering "why?/why?/why?", was really an obstacle to my forward movement. It was time I could have spent on improving my life and the lives of my children.

Not asking unanswerable questions and brooding, also lead to a reduction in the obsessing factor. So did GAL.

2) I stopped revolving my daily/weekly life around my MD h's work schedule (or him or his choices, in general.)

I always felt my life was "on hold", which made me resentful. And that showed in me, when he came home, b/c of how I interpreted his extra hours.

This is one great example from my marriage that I didn't get until I began DBing. It's a specific change in behavior that changed a dynamic in our marriage.

His hospital hours were relentlessly long, which is hard on a family. Even when home he often prepared for the next day's cases. So I could not fathom why he'd take extra cases at the end of a day (he'd say we needed the money or the case was unusual)…and there were times he really wanted to impress someone too.

I worried that his evident preference for the approval of his colleagues, was more important to him than the love of his family. All I knew is that I missed him and I felt very neglected for many years.

Thing is, even if SOME of those cases were done for the "wrong" reasons (according to me), & even if I WAS neglected, I'm embarrassed to admit that

It never occurred to me to make the home life HAPPIER/WARMER and MORE LOVING when he came home - instead of figuratively/literally having my arms crossed when he came home late...

I "brilliantly" forgot, for years, to give him a loving home life that a man would miss...

I learned to make an effort to change that. NO more complaints unless they really mattered, (and most really don't).

To this day, I make an effort to welcome him home and greet him at the door w/ affection (a kiss & hug) AND getting the kids to do so as well. Even the older ones in their 20s, if they are at our home, STOP what they are doing and meet him at the door. H LOVES that and it takes 90 seconds of my day.

That ^^ is one specific example of a change in ME/MY reaction, which lead to a change in our relationship - even though I had believed h to be "wrong" in the original situation. Make sense?

**How to stop revolving around our spouses? GAL. Doing whatever it takes to feel good enough about yourself that you don't expect or want or need someone else to anchor you.

Biggest outward change in my daily life was--

I learned to stop feeling victimized, to GAL and really enjoy it, with or without him - which took so much pressure off of the r itself.

And I REALLY GAL...big time
.

I posted more fully on a thread of mine somewhere, b/c my GAL list is LONG…but suffice to say I'm pretty darn proud of the things I explored in & out of my comfort zone.

Though I think it made me more interesting to h, that was NOT the goal. My goal was simply to feel better. And it sure helped with that.

**I learned that There's NO ONE person who can or should meet all our needs. It's really our job to do that. When I see LBSers here who say they have "few or no friends or family near" them, I worry that they were revolving around the spouse too much and that can hurt a marriage.

It can seem as if the LBSer isn't bringing much to the table, except their needs.

The spouse does not want the extra job of making us happy. Loving us is one thing, but "making us happy" is impossible. That's exclusively OUR job.

Thing is, same goes for them "making us miserable." Of course being left behind hurts deeply.

** I learned that at some point even with the pain of apparent rejection, the LBSer has to CHOOSE to move forward towards a happier life.

Some don't want that. Some people, consciously or not, prefer victimhood and blaming the WAS, to changing themselves.

I cannot explain why that is, b/c it seems so powerless to me to say it's all someone else's fault. But I see it often enough to know it happens.

2) I stopped trying to "establish justice" in our marriage by keeping score and hanging onto my pain or resentments,

if h & I had not "fully addressed" them...Which really meant if h had not admitted fault, seen things my way, AND apologized...

**I learned I had Another myth to change-- I mistakenly believed we had to see our pasts identically and had to agree on our history in order to move forward. Not so.

**I learned that many times, like 2 witnesses to car accidents, h didn't see the "wrong" act as being wrong. We didn't agree on what we had "seen" b/c we are two people using a different lens to see the world with.

**(BTW, I am NOT referring to breaking marital vows or acts that are inarguably "Wrong". I mean conflicts that might include grayer areas)**

Rather than seeing our pasts the same way, I'm far more inclined to make sure we stick to "now & from this day forward" in our focus. I think there's a good reason those words are in most vows…i.e., are we on the same page about today and tomorrow?

3) FORGIVENESS…I don't think I ever saw it growing up. Literally. I never heard my parents apologize to each other after an argument and they had many heated fights. My father was a brilliant well educated rageaholic who got mean when he drank, which was OFTEN.

When my father was on his deathbed, he had BiG regrets on multiple levels as a father and a husband.

By then, he genuinely wanted forgiveness. Because of personal work I and some siblings had done to address the issues we had from our childhood, We were able to express forgiveness, and mean it.

We each felt deeply moved by the experience, as was my father. It was a "Holy" moment for us.

Learning how to do That^^^ is a major life lesson.


Though I had learned to forgive my father for the past, I found it harder to do with my h. Not sure why but I assume the fear of further hurt was the reason.

**I learned that forgiveness is a learned skill and inside my marriage, it literally took practice for me to change how I viewed things in it.

Sometimes I just forced myself to stop dredging up the past. I also read up on forgiveness, and worked on it in therapy & with someone of my faith. (I do think it can be very much a spiritual challenge, rather than purely an emotional one).

As a lawyer I began to tell myself "The Statute of Limitations applies and I CANNOT raise the issue again." It helped.

I learned that RE-HASHING the pre-marital past and reliving the traumas of the past are NOT solution based. They are not helpful in knowing what TO DO NOW.

That^^ is a DB LESSON…and unfortunately many mc's spend a lot of time and energy on the past. IMO, get a solution based mc or you'll move a lot slower.

(Not suggesting you ignore serious childhood traumas at all. But so many
LBSers point to something in the WAS's past as the reason for the split today, and that keeps the focus OFF of what THEY CAN DO to improve their situation.)

And for instance, if it's YOU that has the disturbing past, or you were abused as a child, your spouse cannot fix THAT…

and it's NOT "BECAUSE" of a childhood issue that you have a marital problem today, - it's because of how it was handled/mis-handled

that you allow that problem from the past to damage your present day.

So go get help for your personal baggage.

**Learn to work that out apart from the marriage and NOT let that past issue from your youth or premarital days, haunt you now. Get some help -

AND in the meantime, work on your marriage by doing behaviors that help it, and lessening or getting rid of the behaviors that don't help it.
DB 101...

3) Get a solution based C who gets you some results or behavior changes in 4-6 sessions, or helps you learn about Forgiveness. That's the "Work" part of this.

**Attend Retrovaille (the marriage retreat designed for couples in crisis, also helped with that, btw. WELL WORTH the time/money.

(And no, you do NOT have to be Catholic or even Christian to attend. But they do say the word "God," so if that's an issue, call around to see what you can attend that will help you most).

Attend "Essential Experience Workshop" or some other solution based personal growth workshop - if you have personal issues affecting your m - so that you can become your own best self.

You'll find that being a more loving happy person, makes a more loving spouse & that helps the marriage.

**I Learned in Retrovaille and the workshop to Stay in the moment.

"Being HERE NOW", relieved me of a lot of baggage from the past and worries about the future.

**I learned that venting is NOT always healthy. Of course it can be. But at times I'd vent and vent and my venting made me want to file for divorce!!

(Even today, when I read over my journals from back then, I usually get angry all over again. That's pretty telling.)


Venting helps in 2 situations I think.

1) If you really are foggy about boundaries and need feedback about whether some behavior is okay or acceptable or not… you vent, telling us how you feel about it and wanting to know if you're over reacting, etc and you ask…
AND OR

2) if you are also working on yourself and Not venting to stay stuck.

**I learned that No victimhood should be enabled here. If someone really is being abused, no one suggests sticking around for that.

But if they are choosing to see themselves as victims and NOT changing that, I think enabling that viewpoint keeps them stuck.

**I was stuck in victimhood for my first several months, until after getting here. It was so empowering to realize I could react differently and control SOME of this, & I thank DBing for that gift.**

I had some very good vets at my time of need, who reminded me that fuming about the injustice of it all MIGHT help calm me down…but it might not. (It did not).

As Was2Sad told me, *** the ONLY thing to focus on

is what YOU can do to change or help your situation -

and to do right by your kids, which happen to be the same thing...***.


**I've learned to have fewer deal breakers now, but the ones I have, will be enforced without a 2nd thought. Strangely, that makes me feel safe.

**I learned to Keep the focus on what I CAN control, (and that's only ME)
**I learned that where the head goes, the heart will, eventually, follow.

I came to believe that I'd TRULY be alright, in fact I'd be HAPPY, no matter what my h did...which

changed how I felt in my heart, AND how I behaved. And It radiated in my outward behaviors for others to see...

h picked up on it and suddenly he did Not seem to want his freedom so much as - wanting what I had,

which was our family and homelife and friends and an upbeat attitude about the future. HE was lonelier than me. He felt he'd lose more than me, (and I internally agreed b/c I felt so much better about who I was that I knew I'd only be alone if I chose to be.)

**I had decided that in all likelihood the marriage was over BUT that I was going to be fine anyhow. This freed me.

**I learned to focus on the upside of being single (or the upside of wherever you are).

At first you think there are zero upsides. You are gripped in fear and feelings of rejection that are deep. So seeing the upside sounds insane, and you may have to start small. I began w/ being grateful to not have the toilet lid left up, or being able to watch chick flicks, and saying "why yes, yogurt IS fine for dinner tonight"... but

you learn YOU CAN CHOOSE to be happy wherever you are. Bloom where you are planted, etc.


That's very attractive, btw. But that's not the goal of it. The goal is feeling better, & living a full happy life with love given and received.

That goal does NOT REQUIRE the spouse who broke your heart, to be in your life.

Once you come to truly KNOW you'll be more than alright and you know this inside & out, you'll be on the road to a faster recovery.

Mantras, helpful quotes, (often from here) praying, turning my marriage & pain over to God, exercise, all helped me get through the early days that were really bad...

GAL helped me to have fun & be happy again.

Forgiving/letting go also removed some huge obstacles to feeling content.

DBing reminded me of what I really ought to have known,

which is that I am in charge of how happy my life is, and always have been.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: THE VETS - 04/20/12 07:19 PM
PS

I had a Godsent DB coach I cannot thank enough. We had MANY sessions.

Vernetta, wherever you are, I THANK YOU...And I miss you!
Posted By: Drew Re: THE VETS - 04/20/12 08:28 PM
My story's not so important. The friends I've made on here know my story and that's all that matters.

All of the above, but especially:

Jack_Three_Beans
mach1
FIB
ericmsant2
FaithinAK

And one more that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet:

Grace_O

smile
Posted By: Drew Re: THE VETS - 04/20/12 08:31 PM
And yes mach1, I know ....

Pretty long post for me.

smirk
Posted By: Gypsy Re: THE VETS - 04/20/12 09:39 PM
Hello Again!

This is a great time to read, read, read, read. Great books are Not Just Friends, The Five Love Languages, The Language of Letting Go, Unconditional Forgiveness, He Said She Said, etc. Read and absorb it. Talk about it with your friends, here and around you.

I worked on me. Even though it seemed unfair. He was the meanie who left! The injustice! I felt the soul shredding embarrassment of being a cliche... clueless, traded in. It took time, lots of time and practice, learning. That's where having a good counselor comes in very handy. They are experts in helping folks work through the spaghetti of emotional conflict. If you broke a bone, would you set it yourself or see a professional... just saying.

When talking to my husband was hurtful and counterproductive, then it was on the phone. When that turned out to be horrendous, then it was email. That was when the 48 hour rule came in very handy. It's funny, even 3 years after the divorce, his manipulative antics can still get my heart rate up, my anxiety in full swing. Now I know to sit back, take a deep breath and walk away. I address him on my terms, calm and in control.

In divorce there's two types of parents. The ones who leave the spouse but want the family/kids and the ones who leave them all. Mine left to a 'complete' life with her. At first I was in agony over his treatment to our kids, seeing them twice a month for a one hour dinner. Now it's down to 4 to 6 times a year. They had to fight to meet their new brother which occurred when the baby was 11 months old.

One of the worst things I did was always breaking down when the kids and I were together during something significant.. like one of their birthdays or holidays and cry, apologizing for what was lost with the divorce, that inherent vow I made when they were born. Eventually I realized I was the one having the problem, not them. Talk about learning how to drain the pity party pronto!

Keep your chin up. You're the best.

*hugs*
Posted By: kat727 Re: THE VETS - 04/20/12 10:05 PM
Re-reading some of these words of wisdom, something came to me that I forgot to share.

When you are in the middle of all of this chaos, you might not be ready to hear what you are bing told and that is ok. There will come a time when you have learned or experienced enough that what you have been hearing all along begins to ring true and make sense. This happened to me with yet another book I ordered to try to help me save my marriage. I just couldn't absorb another word. Nothing was helping, or so I thought and I just needed a break.

A month or so later, I picked up the same book and was thrilled with the many gems of wisdom it offered. It didn't save my marriage but helped me start to see and hear what I needed.

Give yourself time.

kat
Posted By: Truegritter Re: THE VETS - 04/20/12 10:06 PM
Brokeback Cowboy?

You forgot Boat14.

My thank you's go to

Lostforwords (who brought me over to the MLC forum)
Starsky
Trapt
Jack3beans
Cat04
Brooklyn
Grace

My peers during the sh!t
PEImom of many
Ericmsant
MHL
Warriorshadow
Seeking answers
Punkin
Lolawar
CD Bear
Hope in AK

I am 46, no kids, divorced (Dec 2011)

Why do I feel success?

I came here angry, hurt, confused, codependent, a fixer and more later...

Gotta go.
Posted By: sgctxok Re: THE VETS - 04/21/12 12:12 AM
my personal notes


as a sometimes moderator
* I have NEVER been told/asked to promote a darn thing, in fact, quite the opposite, I've been asked to be helpful to newcomers. As my family would say, 'bingo bob'--which means, that's it. If I recommend a coach/coaches, it's because I have inside knowledge to the cost/benefit ratio. I KNOW their qualifications and the cost, and the cost of other counseling. I KNOW the quality of advice on the board--since 1/2001.

* I have been successful despite myself. A good deal of you are far BETTER DBers than me. I UNDERSTAND the principles ... DOING them... in the early years was sooooooooooo tough for me. But it came full circle. And I have been in an incredibly loving, successful relationship for a few years now.

The 'DB techniques' that worked for me:


* The Last Resort Technique
that's because when I screw up, I screw up so big I get to this level. But, I learned to back off. I am the WORST...It took me forever to learn to back off. Michele said 'don't give yourself an out....'

* Vary the What/Where/When/Who
this is major for us, our arguments are predictable...and therefore avoidable

And also '...don't think he will do a complete overhaul for you just because he loves you...'

Those things were major to me. I 'got it' immediately when she said it. IMPLEMENTING IT took so much longer because .... I don't know why, it just did. Some folks are able to implement quickly.

* I was asked to be a moderator because: I UNDERSTAND; I CARE; I'M LOYAL



* LOYAL/AKA DB SAVED ME....AKA MICHELE/DB SAVED 'ME'/MY LIFE

--I was divorced w/2 small children and came to DB 2 relationships later
--I had read a lot of relationship books, met with counselors, etc. I was a hot mess in this relationship that had ended...and I didn't see how I could go on living, but didn't want my kids to deal with the consequences...
--DB is logical/CLEAR with ACTION ITEMS / measurables (and I was so not an action item measurable person then, but everything seemed foggy. This REALLY helped.
--MICHELE IS NO-NONSENSE
--my posters cared, and gave me great advice
--my FIRST POSTER and most loyal: AUSTRALIAN/MICK no longer around
--my other great VETS from a LONG time ago: JAMESJOHN, KentS (I took Keeping Love Alive seminar due to his experience. I went with wintergirl), inmyplace, Phoenix (aka Fee), gbon.




* My favorite DB RESOURCES...in this order:

--Keeping Love Alive (hands down,Seminar and audio)
--Getting Through to the Man You Love
--Divorce Remedy (Divorce Busting, upgraded)
--The Marriage Breakthrough

--Divorce Busting (my first)
Posted By: BklynMom Re: THE VETS - 04/21/12 01:51 AM
I love these boards. They have saved me for sure. Thank you all.

Kat comments above regarding rereading stuff you read before makes so much sense. I just read through my 1st thread and I didnt even realize how many great and insightful comments were posted to me. I was in such a panic at that time, nothing was registering. Now I have a lot of food for thought.

THANKS AGAIN!
Posted By: Truegritter Re: THE VETS - 04/21/12 04:34 AM
gritter continued...

Success?

Letting go.

Learning that you don't control ANY of this or your relationship with anyone.

Only how and who you choose to be in your life.

How is how you treat people. Without regard for how they may or may not treat you back. Just do it because it's who you are. Especially your spouse. Don't forget you love them.

I learned in the face of brutal reality that I could love someone that wasn't capable or willing to love me in the same way.

THAT was the most important thing. It was the answer.

I knew what I believed about my vows and commitment to another and for the longest time I couldn't reconcile it.

The best way I can say my success and my DB is to repeat what I have said to someone recently:

"What you have to understand is that there is no timeline. No guarantee. This is something they CAN get through but may never.

That is why it is important that you understand the brutal reality of what is happening. I promise you your time will not be wasted by letting this settle in and exploring really what it means to love someone. Look around you. I did. People seem to be having a much more easier go of it. But that is not you. That is not what this is.

It is not easy. And you were meant to be here. I don’t know why. I don’t have those answers. But you are here. And I know this:

How you choose to react to this, what you do and who you decide to be, for your children, for you, for your W and for your own being, from the depth of your soul…

This will define who you are.

Stop watching your W. She will appreciate it. She feels bad that she is hurting you and her children yet she is powerless to choose differently.

Let the anger go for what she is choosing right now. Let yourself righteousness go too. But for the grace of God…

Look at your life and your family. You have a choice. To make this the best it can ever be…it is in your hands.

Your W may choose to join you someday.

What you choose makes or breaks your life so choose from the very best part of yourself. It is a process to see where that place is. But it is does not lie in anger or resignation.

There is a test of fire. And you will want to give in. When is it over? You will know.

There are better destinations beyond the place you find yourself in today."

That pretty much sums it up for me. I did 180's which was losing my anger and seeing my W with compassion.

I GAL'd I learned to ride a horse and I strengthened healthy friendships. I was not unfaithful to my marriage.

Most importantly I detached. which brought the clarity of mind and spirit so I could make the best choice for me.

I conspired against policies of this website to meet my peers in Dbing and can say that it to this day it was one of the most amazing experiences I have had...

"Live little Friday" we called it and it was amazing to meet these people with whom I shared so much.

these people...are my friends and will be for a long time.

Finally I think the most important thing was defining success for myself without my W. Despite what her choices were.

That is the best gift I can give her as well. She didn't need that pressure... no one does.

To be responsible for the happiness of another?

Ok that is the short version.

The long is in the archives in MLC forum...

Starsky pass the cheese fries.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: THE VETS - 04/21/12 11:58 AM
Oh crap -- I ate 'em all. Sorry, 'Gritter!! blush
Posted By: JCJ Re: THE VETS - 04/21/12 06:22 PM
Well I don't know if I am a vet but I survived and came out the other side and am so much happier than I ever was, I think that would be my main achievement.

This was a huge learning curve for me and I wish it had been less traumatic but then I wouldn't have learnt the lessons I needed to.

My exh was in his 20s and went through a huge life crisis after nearly dying through a long serious illness that be still has. He had an affair, bought (bad!!) new clothes, new car, idiot new friends, new girl etc. We have been divorced a year and a half now and separated since 2007.

What I learnt

- that you can't help people that don't want your help.
- rejection is heartbreaking but most of the time it is more about the other person than you.
- take responsibility for yourself. Look at your contributions to your marriage and learn from your mistakes. Do not blame yourself and dwell too much, forgive yourself, learn and move on.
- life is for living, enjoy yourself and be present because time is too precious to waste. You won't get your children's childhoods back ( or your late 20s in my case).
- life may not be what you envisioned but it has a funny way of working out.
- this will take time, allow yourself time to heal from the hurt and know (I promise) that things will get better.
- lastly, and most importantly take opportunities as they come along. This is time for growth, use it wisely.

I thought divorce was the worst thing ever, I do still feel shame about it and it is a sore spot, however I have accepted it and embraced opportunities as they have come my way.

You will survive whether your marriage is saved or not, you will be stronger and most probably a better person for this hideous experience called separation.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: THE VETS - 04/21/12 09:37 PM
JCJ

I hope you post to some of the terrified newbies, And those reeling from their "new reality". Many are so stunned they feel paralyzed. Or they are mired deeply in their sorrow and for some, they don't see a way out. They need help.

I worry that my words about how they'll "thrive" after divorce, ring hollow b/c I didn't divorce. I got the result they think will lead them to their own happiness.

And like you said (or someone here), sometimes we're not ready to hear something yet. But not too long later, we hear it again & it hits us exactly where/when we need it most. Suddenly lights go off and we "get" it.

Having someone like YOU come here and tell them that you have been in their shoes AND you were in the storm, you weathered it, got to the other side, did not reconcile or "WIN" and YET, you are happy is such a Godsend.

Everyone needs to know that even when life throws them a curve ball that really hurts, they can heal, live, laugh and love again. Your story shows them that.

Thanks for sharing it!

((( )))
Posted By: dbmod Re: THE VETS - 04/22/12 04:45 AM
Originally Posted By: JCJ
Well I don't know if I am a vet but I survived and came out the other side and am so much happier than I ever was, I think that would be my main achievement.

This was a huge learning curve for me and I wish it had been less traumatic but then I wouldn't have learnt the lessons I needed to.

My exh was in his 20s and went through a huge life crisis after nearly dying through a long serious illness that be still has. He had an affair, bought (bad!!) new clothes, new car, idiot new friends, new girl etc. We have been divorced a year and a half now and separated since 2007.

What I learnt

- that you can't help people that don't want your help.
- rejection is heartbreaking but most of the time it is more about the other person than you.
- take responsibility for yourself. Look at your contributions to your marriage and learn from your mistakes. Do not blame yourself and dwell too much, forgive yourself, learn and move on.
- life is for living, enjoy yourself and be present because time is too precious to waste. You won't get your children's childhoods back ( or your late 20s in my case).
- life may not be what you envisioned but it has a funny way of working out.
- this will take time, allow yourself time to heal from the hurt and know (I promise) that things will get better.
- lastly, and most importantly take opportunities as they come along. This is time for growth, use it wisely.

I thought divorce was the worst thing ever, I do still feel shame about it and it is a sore spot, however I have accepted it and embraced opportunities as they have come my way.

You will survive whether your marriage is saved or not, you will be stronger and most probably a better person for this hideous experience called separation.


beautiful
Posted By: dbmod Re: THE VETS - 06/01/12 10:13 PM
^
Posted By: 2stepboogie Re: THE VETS - 06/01/12 10:55 PM
I suppose the success is still being written since I am not dead!

I am honored that a person like Grit would mention me since I admired and respected his advice beyond measure.

cat
Mach
Gritter
BITS
25
Faith AK
MICHELLELT


and SO many others...
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