Hi all.
Like several other board members, I'm not exactly new here. I spent quite a bit of time on these boards several years back. That R didn't get saved but I learned a lot. Never enough, it seems.
In the midst of a new R, I didn't seem to need all those tools I'd learned about. By the time I did need them, they weren't so readily at hand.
I've spent some time kicking myself for being so stupid, for getting into this same old spot again. I realize that I need to do some deeper personal work to get to the bottom of what drives destructive R habits. When I'm paying attention, I do just fine, but when I get lazy, it all goes to he!!
So, P has moved out (and far away). She wants mental space, really. She says she can't figure out what she wants when someone else is around because she's always worrying about the other person and what they want. (So, a big chunk of this is about her and her own internal boundary issues. I can't fix that.)
I see that I had been taking out my irritations on her, being irritable and insufferable. Her other issues were about all my stuff (packrat), the inconsistency of my income, and my insufficient warmth toward her adult children. I started seriously addressing these issues last fall when she first indicated that she was dithering about the R. She said more than once that she was really impressed with the changes I had made.
Another issue is that she doesn't like the rural setting where we live (my house). I had first lived at her urban house, then she sold it and moved across the country to live with me. The plan was to fix up my house and sell it so we could build a new one on some land she bought. She's realized that she doesn't want to live in the country and she's rather fond of a little town three states away. Oy!
She tries to avoid conflict and feels like she doesn't have the right to ask someone else to change or compromise. So, she'll have the whole conversation in her head. "I want X and she won't like that, she's just different and that's okay, so I should just leave."
Some (brilliant) coaching from Jody has helped me with my clarity and focus. P has left, and she's very clear that she needs and wants some time for herself. My behavior in the few weeks between her deciding to go and actually leaving has made a big difference. I have been generally confident, focusing on my strengths, continuing to make changes, remaining kind and open, and being her friend.
She has continued to cuddle in bed. Her cats are staying with me until she gets settled. The day before she left, she was doing her rare flirtations (usually it makes her feel reassured to see my positive response). She said that it didn't feel like we were breaking up.
She has said many things that show her ambivalence. "Maybe I'm a fool. Maybe I'm making a huge mistake." I had said that I was just going to imagine that she's on a long silent retreat (really to minimize my hopes of hearing from her) and she said, "Maybe that's what I should have done instead."
Okay, this is getting toooo long. I'm back on the boards because I see there are still folks asking the tough questions and offering encouragement for the long haul.
From what you've posted, I think I can see why she chose you...
Why did you choose her? What qualities about her did you like... that attracted you to her?
You mentioned you got "lazy"... what about "lazy" was serving you? Avoiding the R or her? Or were you wallowing in self pity, looking for her to come in and love you? Letting you know that you are important? Or was there other ways that you were meeting your needs by being lazy?
She left the cats with you? Then it certainly does not seem she is done with you. It's one thing to leave a couple old books or shoes or tools that are easily replaced... but leaving the cats? Living, breathing, animals...? I'm guessing of course, but it is possible she's either left a part of her to comfort you during her time away... or she has a reason to re-connect with you once she's "figured things out"...
Not sure, but it sounds like you are making a big deal that she now wants to move elsewhere... Could be wrong, but it seems you are attached to your place...
If that's the case, what makes you think that she would simply be willing to get rid of her place in town, move in with you, and be happy...? Aside from the words, I mean...
Did you really think she was a rural chick at heart?
She bought property that she thought the two of you might build on, once your place was fixed up and sold... sounds like she was nesting... a place to call "ours"... not "her place" and "my place"...
What makes you think she's ambivalent? Because of the words she used...?
Consider maybe she was testing your commitment to her. Maybe this and maybe that? Sure, we all are capable of being unsure... but if we really don't want someone else' opinion... those aren't generally thoughts we share...
Maybe... just maybe... all she wanted to hear from you was that you were still committed to her... and then you would step in and be there for her... like you said you would...
I am sorry you are going through this.
Well, there you go! Tough questions and some kind words. Thanks Kaffe.
I chose her because she's fun and funny, humble and kind, warm and welcoming, honest and honorable, stable and sane, and she had excellent references from a good friend of mine. All those things are true, but the stable and sane things look slightly different from the perspective of an R rather than a friendship.
In the long run, of course, being lazy doesn't serve me at all. In the short term, it comes out of lack of confidence and, I think, a subconscious testing - the desire for someone to love and accept me unconditionally. Not realistic or healthy, let alone effective, but there it is.
She was planning on taking the cats. Then an opportunity involving work and travel arose. She said, "See, if I didn't have encumbrances like cats or a significant other, then I could consider things like this." And I said I would take care of the cats. Depending on what pans out for her, they may be here for several months or she may be back for them in a few weeks. I'm glad they're at least here now. Yes, they are comforting and they are also the last tangible tie.
Yes, I'm attached to this area (not my house or the distance from town). At the least, I'd prefer it to be the home base for extended adventures. I'm willing to consider other scenarios, but I wouldn't take it lightly.
I didn't realize that P had never lived in a rural setting and she was genuinely excited about our plans.
I was particularly concerned about moving beyond my place and her place to 'our place'. I didn't expect her to be happy here in the long term. I think progress to the next step was too slow and discouragement is part of what she's feeling. She's now in the process of selling the land to interested neighbors.
Yes, it's mostly her words that betray ambivalence. Her actions aren't so fuzzy right now. Packing up all her stuff and selling the land are clear and definitive actions. That she remains open and present and warm (and wants to cuddle) may or may not be ambivalent, but it's confusing at least.
It's interesting that you suggest that she may have wanted reassurance of commitment from me. I don't think that's something she doubted. I think it's more that she needs to see my strengths (yes, so I can be there for her in the ways that she wants me to). I was playing to my weaknesses and I wasn't being someone she wanted to be with. She forgot what she liked about me. She forgot that she ever had liked anything. Now she at least remembers.
Hi all.
Like several other board members, I'm not exactly new here. I spent quite a bit of time on these boards several years back. That R didn't get saved but I learned a lot. Never enough, it seems.
In the midst of a new R, I didn't seem to need all those tools I'd learned about. By the time I did need them, they weren't so readily at hand.
I've spent some time kicking myself for being so stupid, for getting into this same old spot again. I realize that I need to do some deeper personal work to get to the bottom of what drives destructive R habits. When I'm paying attention, I do just fine, but when I get lazy, it all goes to he!!
Ok so you have figured out that DB isn't just for R that are in trouble? I hope
Yes there are tools that you don't need when things are good, but there are tools that you can always keep with you...
That is a mistake that people tend to make when they enter a new R or even into piecing. Things are good, so we don't think we have to do work, don't have to pay attention...
Actually, I think the opposite is true. We have to do the work and pay attention so that we don't get to bad spots (or not really bad spots). Communication, affection, listening, love languages, validation, consideration, maintaining a sense of individuality, recognizing the others right to be their own person, low expectations...
I say low instead of no, because when we are in a committed loving relationship, we all have expectations. We just need to be aware that they aren't unreachable, they aren't over the top, and that we don't wear rose colored glasses where our partner is concerned.
I am sorry that you have found yourself back here, but as you know, it's a good place to find your footing again.
Google for "The Three Faces Of The Victim", Cyrena referred me to it, I thought it was good, maybe you will find it helpful too.
Accuray
Accuracy, Thank you for the suggestion on "The Three Faces of the Victim."
I read about it and learned a great deal about myself. I play all three of the roles at different times but primarily the helpless victim in my sitch.
I was doing that yesterday as a matter of fact and this new awareness is helping me start today differently. The article told me to focus on self care, rather than looking outside for a saviour (and I had convinced myself that my lack of self care was selfless!) and to acknowledge my problem solving and leadership capacities.
Thank you.
Me (F): 51 W: 41
T: 10 yrs
M/DP: 7 years
ILYBINILWY: July 31, 2011
W: Moved out 10/11, again 12/11
W moved to another state: 4/12/12
Hiya, SD!
I still lurk here, even though I'm divorced now and totally over my ex. I do find it helps keep me focused in a good way when it comes to my dating relationships.
What stands out to me here, is that it doesn't sound like your partner tried to go to counseling with you to save the relationship? Yes, I know - typical WAS behavior. But really, wouldn't any of US, here, if we became unhappy in our relationship, try to fix it first by going to counseling? Do you think the women you pick somehow are flawed in that respect? Looking back, are there red flags that you ignored? (I am famous for blowing right past obvious red flags in my relationships - I still do it, but I am TRYING to learn to look for the signs - and to figure out what it says about ME, that I am attracted to the types of men I am).
Ellie
Ellie!
Great to hear from you. I had heard through the grapevine that you were doing well.
Of course, in hindsight, there were red flags. She had a pretty good track record in the commitment department, but it had taken a lot out of her I guess. When I first suggested counseling, she recounted how unpleasant and fruitless it had been in her previous R.
Early on, I was convinced that she was fully R capable. Only later did I see that she had some baggage that might interfere. How is it that we try to pick someone who is the exact opposite of whatever nightmare we're trying to avoid and they keep ending up being the poster child?
I told my cousin, after spending a few hours with her husband, "OMG, you married your Dad!" She said, "I didn't see it. I don't know how I didn't see it..."
Accuray, thanks for the tip. I'll check it out.
Needgrace, thanks for stopping by.
Cat,
Let's hope I've learned my lesson!
How is it that we try to pick someone who is the exact opposite of whatever nightmare we're trying to avoid and they keep ending up being the poster child?
Ahhh....that's the challenge, isn't it? To get to the root of why we keep recreating our childhood traumas and such.....and learning not to get sucked into new relationships that do the same thing.
One of the books I read talked about that. It says that when we are children, we're all "abused" in one way or another. In some cases minor, in some cases major, but no parents are perfect and they act from their own weaknesses. (I realize I'm using the term "abuse" loosely here)
Given the abuse we receive, we learn how to cope, and become experts at it. Coping with that abuse over time feels "normal" to us.
Therefore, when we're dating, people who stand to abuse us in familiar ways make us feel normal, and make us feel ourselves. That's why we seek these patterns.
If you were raised by disengaged parents, and find a partner who dotes on you, you won't know what to do with that, you won't feel you deserved it, and it will make you feel uneasy. Instead, you'll look for someone who is also going to mildly neglect you and make you work for their affections, because that's what feels right. Doing that work is what makes you value the affection you receive.
I think it takes a huge amount of inner growth to really be able to get into a long term relationship with someone who does not treat you the way you expect to be treated. It won't feel right initially, and that makes it hard to feel in love.
Accuray
LeafTurner, I didn't see your post at first (crossposting). Thanks for stopping by. I really like your name.
SD,
Wasn't trying to admonish you in any way. I too was a repeat customer (same S.)
We get comfortable, we let the good feelings take over, we get lazy, we forget to do what we know works.
One of the things that one of my friends from here and I have talked about is how many people seem to come back for that very reason (whether it is a new R or a reconciled one.)
Kinda like when we diet, lose a bunch of weight, feel home free and start back with the sweets and junk food...
Everything requires effort to maintain...
Anyway...
Hope you are doing well.
Accuray, I've been reading Pia Mellody again. More of the old tools I had dropped. It's interesting that you mention how doing things differently, even if in a healthier way, can feel less like what we think of as love.
That's one reason I have more hope for this R. Many aspects were healthier and the feelings were unfamiliar. It's disconcerting, but I embrace it. The down side is that P doesn't see it that way and seems more stuck in the disconcerting place.
I'm keeping busy with my GAL program, mainly focusing on exercising and eating right. Hoping for a bike ride today.
I'm trying to keep moving forward and making progress on dealing with my stuff. Today is garbage day, so that's one opportunity to make a dent. The theory is slow and steady progress, but the reality is that I work in spurts and do best with a deadline. I think it would be helpful if I pick a date (okay, May 3rd) as a deadline for the next phase of major visible progress. Which will be... Okay, rearrange the living room and set up a desk for myself.
Starting tomorrow, I'll be working for about 8 days in a row, on the road for part of that, so my posting will be minimal.
P is sending brief emails, maybe every other day, letting me know what she's up to, asking how I am and how the cats are. I respond cheerfully and genuinely and keep it short. Okay, could be shorter...
The hardest time for me was right before she left. The moment she drove away with the van full of her stuff, I had detachment. When she came back a few days later to switch vehicles, it took a couple hours, but there was plenty of warmth while the detachment stayed. It wore thin after a few days, but at least I knew what I was aiming for.
Hi SD,
Thank you for sharing your story. I am fairly new to the boards and am learning a great deal from everyone else's stories. It also gives me hope to see you and others exhibit such strength in the midst of difficult times.
If you have a chance after your long work stint, can you share a few of your thoughts on Pia Mellody's books? I was thinking of ordering one.
Wishing you all the best.
Hi Needgrace,
I'm a huge fan of Pia. I think Facing Codependence is the best book to start with. They definitely go in order. There was a time when I was listening to a set of her tapes over and over while I was chopping dried fruits for hours (I think it was about co-addicted relationships). Always a bracing and inspirational kick in the arse. Her voice would come to me with key instructions at key moments: "Who she is is none of your business!"
Actually, a friend just loaned me an old Walkman so I could listen to those tapes again. It's time for a refresher.
Thanks, SD
I will definitely read it.
Cat, it took me some time to decide to come back on the boards, and with the same screen name. It's embarrassing to be in this spot again.
My initial threads were called, "Slow, but not stupid". So the obvious title for the new series was, "Wow, I really am stupid!" I mean, really, I should have known better. I do have to give myself some credit for doing some things better, but yeesh, to be in this same spot again... Kinda Groundhog Day, ya know?
Yup I do know.
Actually, I only had the book the first time around (1998). Not sure if the boards existed then...
Lessons learned the hard way...
Seems to be the human way though LOL.
I'm just now coming up for air after a week plus on the road working. A lot of time was driving and I listened to my set of Pia Mellody tapes over and over (I was also going through areas with few or no radio stations.)
P sent email on Tuesday, inquiring whether Monday's snow had prevented my departure. She called this morning (after several unsuccessful attempts to catch me yesterday - she had to work at it for quite some time before she got me.) We had a pleasant and lengthy chat, catching up on each other's week.
She's trying to find an apartment near a lake for the summer. She's trying to figure out if she can (or wants to) take advantage of a potential short term work gig sometime soon. She's researching opportunities for the winter (some things that we had talked about doing together.) She says, "I shouldn't say this, but maybe we could do that." She asks if I would want to. (It's awfully far in the future, but it's time to get the applications in.) I give a vaguely positive answer, saying that I'm always up for adventures. She says she'll submit the applications.
Before we hang up she tells me (more than once) that she's enjoyed talking to me.
After reading all that, you'd think that I'm focused on her every move. Really, I'm journaling in order to help me track what's happening.
Most of my time is spent focusing on the things I've identified that I need to do. Some of that is about GAL and taking care of myself. Some is about healing the parts of me that are broken and don't work properly in relationships.
I feel really good about a lot of things I'm doing. I'm enjoying things. Sometimes I'm thinking fond thoughts about P, sometimes I'm sad and missing her. Mostly the focus is on me. I'm trying to use this time wisely.
I had mentioned that I was giving myself a deadline of later this week to get the living room rearranged and a desk set up for myself. I'm on it!
SD!!!! OMG!!!! How the heck are you?
I just popped in this place a couple weeks ago for grins, and to help someone else out who resonates with me. I don't even question why, especially after a long, long time. Anyhoo...
Wow, so much growth. I remember the very painful times and this is such a joy to read for you:
I feel really good about a lot of things I'm doing. I'm enjoying things. Sometimes I'm thinking fond thoughts about P, sometimes I'm sad and missing her. Mostly the focus is on me. I'm trying to use this time wisely.
You've really found a good place, my friend. It's good to see you approach this with wisdom and grace. You're all that and more.
Out of curiousity, how is her R with her kids? Has that improved any?
Hugs and kisses to you...
Betsey
p.s. I have reason to be out in your neck of the woods over the next 4 years. My D18 is heading to college in upstate NY and plans on visiting another friend who isn't terribly far from where you are. That friend's mom and I are good friends, and we're all trying to arrange times and places to rendezvous. The first stop is NYC in late October, as D18 is playing volleyball there in a tournament. You never know with me...
My initial threads were called, "Slow, but not stupid". So the obvious title for the new series was, "Wow, I really am stupid!" I mean, really, I should have known better. I do have to give myself some credit for doing some things better, but yeesh, to be in this same spot again... Kinda Groundhog Day, ya know?
BTW, you were never slow or stupid... just in pain.
Would it make you feel better to know I'm having to sit back on the sofa of discomfort (as H2H used to call it) with issues related to my own D? May marks 7 years since that was final, and now I'm back to addressing some of this crap all over again? WTF? Only now I have an adult daughter who is going through her own issues with her dad and I'm having to help her navigate, only to find out what I thought I'd figured out was just scabbed over. Darn it.
So don't feel bad.. just move over on the sofa. You bring the chutney and I'll bring the crackers...
Betsey!
Lovely to hear from you. You are too kind. And you darned well better let me know if you're going to be in the neighborhood!
I'm giving myself a chuckle tonight, as I do periodically, by remembering how you learned to always wear business attire when flying for business.
BTW, this is a different P who has good Rs with her adult kids.
Off to bed...
Betsey! Hey girl!
It's Old Home Week!
Hey ladies! It sure is. Found myself struggling with some post D issues and thought I'd check in Surviving to see what was happening there that could give me food for thought... and so here I am.
SD, I will definitely let you know! D18 is going to be near Rochester a lot, as well as over the Schenectady way too. I am going to have some serious volleyball withdrawal next fall so I might have to be resorting to being the sports version of a crack addict to get a fix.
Right now I couldn't wear business attire anywhere! I turned 50 and got shingles a few days later. They hurt! So I've been wearing sweats to work. Isn't that so lame?
I realized that it is a different P after I sent it. It's just that you called the other one P too and I get initials stuck in my head.
BTW, I'm not too kind... you're just harder on yourself than you need to be. Must be a woman thing.
Take care and keep musing. I miss you!
Betsey
Hard day today, and the mantra I've come up with after reading some other threads tonight: This stuff is really hard, but I'm worth it!
P called this morning to ask my advice about some potential problems with an apartment she's looking at. Then I was her sounding board and cheerleader as she talked about her confusion about what she wants to do next and where she wants to be. (None of these options had anything to do with proximity to me.)
I know that she needs to get away and figure herself out. I see that. I support it. I'm trying to use my time well. I can only hope she does the same. We never did have any control over our partners, but the knowing it and feeling it... It's terrifying.
And how is it that whatever we fear the most is exactly what we have to do? Whatever is the hardest thing - yup, that, too.
Pia says, "Hug your demons or they'll bite you in the ass."
I'm sitting with my discomfort, feeling my grief and fears today, plotting how to be a cheerful and productive Amazon tomorrow.
I was reading an old thread today.
This one
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...6883#Post356883and saw your name so I thought I would post it here.
I had some posts to Wonka last year and since she went through her own crisis I find it interesting to read her perspective.
Anyways no advice for the moment but I was driving by so I thought I would stop and post.
Hey Cadet, thanks for stopping by. You're quite the archeologist to dig up those old threads! I took a peek. Yup, there I was, telling Wonka to buck up and get with the program.
It's so much easier to see someone else's situation clearly. Last time around I don't know that I ever achieved detachment. I know I felt like I could never see things clearly in my own situation.
This time, I feel like I have a loving detachment most of the time. It seems like a gift more than anything I did. Sometimes I think it means that I've evolved along the way (and sometimes I wonder if post-menopausal calming of the hormones isn't a better explanation). Whatever. I'll take it.
Sometimes I think it means that I've evolved along the way (and sometimes I wonder if post-menopausal calming of the hormones isn't a better explanation). Whatever. I'll take it.
Hmm works that way in men too I believe.
Not sure if I can explain it for a woman, but certainly less estrogen might do that. Less emotions.
For men it is more emotions. But we are going up from zero so it has to improve.
I am giving advice to a lady on another forum(shhh don't tell) and so I was looking at Wonka, NG and you.
Yes detachment is the only way to go for all of us. Not much difference there.
Of course you already know that you see other peoples sichs so much easier because of total detachment.
Yes I have read quite a bit in the archives.
Glad you are making more progess this time.
[Pia says, "Hug your demons or they'll bite you in the ass."]
Love that quote, SD. So true. Also, love to see how you are handling your situation. Thanks for setting an example.
I had been feeling more detached, till I found out my W continues to move forward preparing the D papers.
I live in Ca. and I no longer have the right to get M here. That really bothers me and makes it more difficult for me to detach.
Thanks for inspiring me tonight to detach and GAL. ((( )))
Hey SD,
How are you doing this weekend?
This time, I feel like I have a loving detachment most of the time. It seems like a gift more than anything I did. Sometimes I think it means that I've evolved along the way (and sometimes I wonder if post-menopausal calming of the hormones isn't a better explanation). Whatever. I'll take it.
Maybe it's all of the above? I find this hormonal, menopausal thing just wears me out, and I just don't have the energy to fight much stuff anymore. But I would also say that with age, comes *some* wisdom. I dunno.
I think I remember all of us telling Wonka to buck up and get with the program. She was a tough nut to crack, wasn't she?
Betsey
Well, Bets, as promised, I'm being a cheerful, productive Amazon! I helped a friend with a paying gig this morning and got the lawn mowed this afternoon before having dinner with friends.
I'm a little behind on my goal of rearranging the living room. Just after I posted on Thursday the lights went out and stayed out until 11 PM. I was neither able to do my computer work nor employ the vacuum cleaner in my other planned projects. Tomorrow looks good, though.
NG, I clearly remember being consumed by the pain and anger and unfairness of so many things. I was very attached to the land that P is now selling. That was a very old dream of mine and it was very hard for me to let go of it. When she decided she didn't want to live there, just the thought of that change in plans had me seriously grieving.
Somewhere among the success stories on this site is a letter from a guy who describes how he decided that he would be his WAW's best friend. That stuck with me. So when P decided to sell the land, I let go and helped her get it ready to sell. When she was packing up her stuff, I tried to make sure she'd have everything she needed. Whenever I felt a little miffed about something she was taking, I just stopped and realized that I didn't want to be petty. She doesn't owe me anything. (I can see that it would be much harder to think this if she had made a vow, but she hadn't.)
When a distant opportunity came up for her, I offered to take care of the cats. She at first said that she would feel guilty about that. I told her that she had facilitated many opportunities for me and I'm happy to do the same for her.
I feel so much better when these are my thoughts rather than anger and resentments over how she's not doing what I want. The bottom line is that she's taking care of herself. I can't claim to love her and not really, truly want her to do that. It's her job to take care of herself. And it's my job to take care of me. (Did I say that, or is it the Pia tapes talking again?)
My last DB coaching session included, among other extremely worthwhile things, an impressive display of cheer-leading that caused me to see and change some discouraging thought patterns. I feel like I'm much better able to see and appreciate and utilize my strengths. That is huge. And a huge help to my attitude. (Thank you Jody!)
SD,
Ya know... this is working for you, no matter what happens. You seem to be way more detached this time around and a lot more sure footed. Good for you!
Somewhere among the success stories on this site is a letter from a guy who describes how he decided that he would be his WAW's best friend. That stuck with me.
You know... as someone who took this approach with success... I completely buy into this one. No matter what the outcome is, you won't regret *being* a friend... treating P as you want to be treated and remembered. It is this that allows me to look myself in the mirror and sleep at night.
So good for you for taking the highest of roads. Sounds like Jody is a gem...
Have a great weekend, SD.
Betsey
Maybe a little journaling will help me sort out my clogged brain...
I had a bit of a stressful day yesterday. I was just trying to return the borrowed lawn mower on the quiet back roads with the borrowed unregistered trailer when a bored sheriff and his buddy the state trooper happened to pull up behind me. Okay, I'll get a fine. Oh, apparently the last registration sticker had been altered with a Sharpie. (In case you're wondering, these guys really get bent out of shape about that sort of thing.) Complications ensued. I started out remarkably zen about it all, but the complications took a toll.
I'd also been stressing out about trying to coordinate with P about our joint application for a winter gig. The sticking point was that I was supposed to update my resume and I only had limited time available (something that I find stressful and time consuming under the best of circumstances), while P was trying to get things turned in ASAP. I felt like I didn't have a clear enough picture of the whole application she was putting together, so I didn't have enough information to do my piece properly.
I struggled for a while and finally sent P an email saying that I was sorry that I hadn't figured it out and been clearer sooner, but I didn't have enough info to put anything together quickly and she should just do whatever was necessary to satisfy her time frame.
Then I sat back and sobbed at the release of that stress. I realized that I'd just spent a couple days back in that impossible place where I'm trying so hard to please P (and not get dumped). We're all trying so hard to be the perfect partner and even when they don't seem to be looking our every move is being judged. (I was reading Cadet's earliest thread and he ever so calmly kept mentioning the stress of the situation.) So I was sitting there, feeling my feelings, remembering the pain of all the other impossible choices between conflicting expectations, especially during the last year.
And the phone rang. P got the email and immediately called. "You sound stressed. We shouldn't stress about this. How do you want to do it?" So we strategized for a while then caught up a bit. Then she mentioned that she'd made a doctor's appointment and is planning on coming back on Thursday and staying about ten days to tie up some loose ends and maybe she can help out with some house projects. If that's okay with me.
Yeah, it's okay with me. And it just happens to mean that she'll be here for my birthday next week. So now I'm all weepy with gratitude.
I know it's important to feel our feelings, but it's also exhausting right about now. I'll be working on getting them calmed down well before Thursday.
I'm sure some sleep would help...
Hey SD,
Just want to drop by and see how you're doing. Feeling better after the cry?
Have a great weekend--
:)Betsey
p.s. I'm not ignoring your questions on my thread. Still rolling them around in my mind. I've mostly decided that I'm mad at myself...
Hey Bets,
Yeah, that cry led to some helpful revelations. And there are plenty more stewing in my brain.
P has arrived for her visit. I'm being low key. In some ways it's a little distant and awkward, but mostly it's warm and comfortable.
I've been learning (keep learning...) things about me in this process. I'm trying to pay attention.
Hope all goes well, SD. ((( )))
Thanks NG. I'm here for a bit of journaling. By the time P leaves, I will have forgotten half of the details.
First, lets all have a good laugh at me thinking she purposely came back for my birthday. It was about what worked for her schedule and she completely forgot about my birthday. After lunch, between errands, she says to me, "Your birthday must be coming up pretty soon." With a most amused look, I respond, "You're right on top of things!" She gets a look of panic and grabs her phone to check the date, then gives me a very pained guilty look. After a few minutes I point out that she could wish me a happy birthday. So, she does. And then several more times throughout the day. Then she wakes up the next morning telling me what she's decided to get me.
In general, she's been more distant, less affectionate than when she left a few weeks ago. The exceptions have been notable. A tiny kiss on the arm one night. A foot on top of mine under the table while eating dinner at a friend's house.
We did have a joint phone interview for the winter gig. That was very exciting and I think loosened her up a bit.
I need to remember to remain positive and fun and not grumble about the irritating housemate...
And if there's anything else I should remember, feel free to point it out, gang.
Well, I'm on the road again. P will be gone when I return.
It's definitely easier to focus on me when she's not around. I mean, it's easier to be zen about her being away on a silent meditation retreat when she's actually away. When she's in the same house with me and acting like she's on a silent meditation retreat (okay, bit of an exaggeration) it's another matter.
On the one hand, here are great opportunities to observe our interactions, our habits, make changes, etc. On the other hand, what I'm NOT getting speaks so loudly that I have a hard time getting past "ouch, this hurts" and thinking more constructive, analytical thoughts.
We were working together on a house project. That's often a source of stress as we have different approaches, working styles, philosophies. We each made some changes in order to try to avoid getting into really frustrated spots.
My change was to slow down and put more effort into listening to P's ideas along the way. I made a major change of plans based on her input. P's changes were to a) tell herself that it's my house and my project and she doesn't have to agree with how I decide to proceed and b) instead of standing around and watching me do something and being bored and frustrated she would go read her book. She was particularly proud of the latter solution. I found it to be inefficient and immature (as she would silently wander off rather than either taking initiative or asking me what was next or asking if I needed help with the piece I was working on).
Sadly, my response wasn't much better. I was pretty angry by the third time she wandered off. I couldn't really concentrate on my calculations and I just wanted to wander off myself for a bike ride. I thought that would be too rude, so I asked if P wanted to go for a bike ride. No, she looks up from her book to say she wants to work on the project(?), and besides I probably want to go for the type of ride that would hurt her injured knee (WTF?). She figured she'd go for a ride by herself (on the trail that we'd been looking at together over the past few days) when I was unavailable (working for a few hours). Ouch.
All standard stuff, but I'd lost perspective. I expressed my frustrations and we did get some good work done. The next morning, I suggested bringing my bike along, too, as there was a possibility that my work gig would be really short. That was met with an emphatic, "I don't want to wait around!" More ouch. So, we pulled out without the bike, but I had to tell her how hurt I was and she denied anything but lack of imagination in seeing any possibilities for how a bike ride might happen. Then she miraculously thought of a possibility and insisted we get the bike.
Later in the day I was thinking more clearly and kicking myself for all the emotional drama. With a little processing time, I'm seeing how I was getting stuck in the painful parts that are completely predictable. I also was listening to Pia again. She talks about the pursuing partner being so uncomfortable with lack of feedback and "bombing" the distancing partner to get some connection (positive intensity is great, but negative intensity will do). Ugh. That's exactly what I did. I was so uncomfortable that I had to try to fix it. Couldn't just shut up and let it be.
I'm hoping that this awareness of the specifics for me will help me prepare and do better next time. May not be until September. P initially talked about coming back one week a month, but she's taking a part time job that will tie her up all summer. It's not for the money, it's to have an "anchor in her day" at her new location.
Overall, this visit felt much cooler than the last. I don't know if it was entirely P or if it was partly that I was hanging back and being careful to let P take the lead in any affection. It may be that she was doing the same thing.
hi SD,
thank you for updating. i was wondering how you were doing. i so admire your strength and patience. it sounds like you made some really positive changes (listening, slowing down.)
i can not imagine how hard it must have been to have her there and not allow the hurt to override your thinking and hold yourself back from reacting to the hurt.
i like the Pia quote that you mentioned. i have definitely been a stealth bomber to connect. i have been reading her book on Love Addiction and it has really helped me see myself and my M much more clearly. Thank you for the recommendation.
I also really like how you reframe the time apart/distance to building awareness and preparing for the next time. i will use that as well.
thank you for sharing, SD. ((( )))
Hey NG, thanks for stopping by. I always prefer to learn from other people's mistakes, so glean all you can from mine.
I'm trying to break it down into baby steps. First I have to identify consciously when I get into these uncomfortable places. Then I have to take care of myself, soothe myself, center myself without asking P (or whoever) to change something. It doesn't sound like rocket science but it might as well be. I'm going to have to write down a plan (and probably staple it to my forehead...)
This morning P sent an email asking if I'd be willing to take over the job of selling the land (but only if I'd take some money for it.) I said I'd be happy to help, but that I'm not up for being the lead on another project right now. Strangely, someone actually called me this afternoon expressing interest in the land. I gave P a quick call to give her a heads up about that. Tonight she called because she wanted to compare blood test results from our recent physicals (could I make this up?)
It sure does sound easier than it is. I am struggling with the same thing, soothing myself instead of looking to someone else to make it better.
LOL at stapling it to your forehead...
I think I have to try that. And/or put it on tape, a continuous loop playing into my ear...
Too funny about the blood test results...might be a DB board first.
I haven't updated in a while. I've been reading the boards, but pretty quietly. I've been stressing and processing, observing and learning.
When P was here to help on one project, she ended up getting another one started. Then she had to leave. I was really struggling with it as it's something I haven't done before. I really like to do things right, so it takes a certain amount of psyching myself up as well as enough research for me to feel confident that I'm ready to plow ahead. I always do way more of research and cogitating than P would and it drives her nuts.
I was feeling time pressure to get it completed (it's the shower!) I was feeling anxiety about all the parts I wasn't sure how to do. I was feeling put upon by it all. I was imagining P's thoughts about my slow progress. Finally, I dug out from under all that.
I realized that I was feeling resentful about being stuck with this project right now. I often feel put upon by the big projects that go with this house. Especially if I feel like I'm tackling them alone. I don't want to feel that way. And our thoughts control our feelings. So, I'm reminding myself that it's an opportunity for me to learn something new (which I love) and to do something that I'll be proud of.
I also realized that I was feeling inadequate because of P's frustration with my process. I don't want to feel that way either. I get to have my process and do things in a way that works for me. And I don't have to feel bad about it. I can certainly negotiate ways to work with someone else's needs, too, but mine are legitimate.
After all that, I did finally make some visible progress. I'll be on the road this week, but I hope to be able to seriously plow ahead when I return.
P's been in occasional touch, mainly with updates on our winter gig. First choice fell through and she's been running other options by me. We had a 45 minute phone call this morning (I ended it first). Some talk about these winter gig options, some talk about a fixer upper house she's looking at, some general catching up on what we've each been up to. I am genuinely interested and happy about what she's doing. She asks for my advice on all sorts of things.
When we hang up I need to give myself some time to feel the sadness of it all. All those interesting things she talked about doing, the shocked little little voice in my head kept saying, "Without me!"
After the lukewarm tone of her visit, I thought she might let the winter gig go after our first choice fell through. (I guess my M.O. is to prepare myself for the worst. P doesn't like that negativity.) But she's pursuing other options. I'm pleasantly surprised. (I guess I prefer being pleasantly surprised to having optimistic hopes dashed.) I don't know what she's thinking, but I'm not complaining. It's likely that I'll have stresses and resentments to deal with, but I'm glad that I might have the opportunity to spend more time together.
Hi SD,
I love to read your posts. I am amazed that you are able to give her space so well and to be caring and supportive without expectations. Truly inspiring!
I like too how you have been able to catch yourself, understand how your thoughts about the project and your P impacted you, and readjust your thinking about the shower.
Thanks for stopping by my thread.
Thanks NG.
Another lengthy call today. P wanting my thoughts as she considers that fixer upper. It's exactly the kind of thing I love and she drops mention of a few details that would be important to me, but she had previously said they weren't important to her. So, either she doesn't disagree so much or she's trying to gauge my interest level.
She also talked about how she doesn't have a suitable vehicle for picking up bulky items she would need in the process of remodeling. I do. (She has the little car with good mileage and I have the cargo van.) Fortunately, there wasn't a big enough pause in the conversation for me to start offering all the ways we might work that out.
I gave her my thoughts about the deal in general. I said it sounded good if that's the kind of thing she wants to do. I said it sounded like a fun project (for her - I didn't put myself in there at all).
On the one hand, it does sound like an exciting project that I'd love to help out with (if invited). On the other hand, I have my own fixer upper to work on. P's level of help has been greatly reduced and I suspect that would about kill it.
I'm trying to figure out what to do about P's upcoming birthday. This would be a lot easier if she hadn't showed up (albeit accidentally) for mine. She ended up giving me a non-trivial tool that is very helpful for the shower project. I'm sure a part of that was her feeling guilty for initiating the project and then leaving before it was done. I hate trying to figure this stuff out!
Well, after all the urgent questions about the fixer upper, P signed off with "talk to you later", giving me the impression that I'd get a status update before long. It turned out to be pretty long relative to the time frame of what was going on. She called last night to let me know she'd decided against it. Based on what she said, she probably did the deciding much earlier in the day, if not the day before.
Another lengthy talk with a lot of just catching up. I ended it first. She again signed off with "talk to you later", which I am no longer interpreting to mean "before long."
So, I see that I just took myself on a little roller coaster ride. I keep looking for signs of what she's thinking. Bad idea. She's just going to have to use her words and tell me directly if she wants me to know. And I have to go about my business assuming that there's no point in trying to figure out what she's thinking. No point! (This is for when I need to remind myself.)
Well, after all the urgent questions about the fixer upper, P signed off with "talk to you later", giving me the impression that I'd get a status update before long. It turned out to be pretty long relative to the time frame of what was going on. She called last night to let me know she'd decided against it. Based on what she said, she probably did the deciding much earlier in the day, if not the day before.
Another lengthy talk with a lot of just catching up. I ended it first. She again signed off with "talk to you later", which I am no longer interpreting to mean "before long."
So, I see that I just took myself on a little roller coaster ride. I keep looking for signs of what she's thinking. Bad idea. She's just going to have to use her words and tell me directly if she wants me to know. And I have to go about my business assuming that there's no point in trying to figure out what she's thinking. No point! (This is for when I need to remind myself.)
Now you know the trigger for the roller coaster, you can avoid it in the future.
Maybe just a card for the birthday?
Now you know the trigger for the roller coaster, you can avoid it in the future.
Well, that's mighty optimistic of you.
Yeah, a card is certainly an option. I realized that I feel completely stuck about the birthday decision, like there's no good answer and I'm stressing about finding one. Trying to squirm out from under the burden of this impossible decision. I wrote about another instance of that feeling a few pages back. And I'm feeling a bit of it when I think about some aspects of the winter gig.
I've realized that this stuck feeling is an old one. I'm starting to get enough perspective so that I can recognize it and realize that my associated feelings of helplessness aren't necessary. I still have no idea what I'm going to do about P's birthday, but I now trust that I can feel centered and strong as I outsmart the obstacles to figuring it out.
P has never been one for surprises. She usually asks what people want and makes arrangements well in advance, saying, "I've decided to get you X for the holiday next month. How does that sound?" So, one option would be for me to ask her what she wants. Her answer would likely indicate exactly where she is on the guilt scale. Always good to know...
P called today, just to catch up. I think that she's aiming for once a week unless something in particular needs to be addressed in between.
She was telling me about her plans for her birthday, so I did it. I just asked her what she wanted. She repeated the question, perhaps a little surprised, thought for a minute, then said “Well, it would be nice if you could visit, but it’s pretty far and I’ll be out of town that day.” I didn't immediately respond (a bit shocked at the sentiment of an invitation if not an actual one). She hastened to say that she really hadn't thought about it and we left it that she would think about it.
So, her initial response wasn't "Nothing!" or "Really, you shouldn't." I'm taking that as a good sign.
Later in the day she emailed a photo of something interesting she'd seen during a bike ride.
I had taken some photos of her cats being amusing but I haven't sent them. I'm considering it. I know she misses them.
Hi SD,
That is good, sounds like she would like to see you. I think your DBing is giving her a good chance to miss you without any pressure. Way to go!
I waited a day and sent a couple cat photos. She called to talk about another house she looked at. She told me how VERY MUCH she appreciated the cat photos. I know she misses them terribly. I'm sure she doesn't want to say that because then there'd be the awkwardness of saying she misses me, or not.
She also pointed out that she had some photos of the early stages of the bathroom project and that maybe she should send them to me. But only if I sent her some subsequent photos of the project. She joked that it could be a one for one photo exchange. I pointed out that she's doing well because she got TWO cat photos for the one photo she sent me.
Perhaps she's noticed that she's only getting contact (or anything else - except the birthday gift which was OKed by the DB coach) from me if she initiates or asks. I'm rationing it. There are plenty of things that I want to tell her or discuss with her that I don't. Even on her weekly, leisurely chat calls, there's not time to cover a week's worth of life. It's hard for me to pull back from the intimacy of dailiness. She doesn't want to be tied down by it when she's so far away. She wants to be fully present where she is. I understand, but I don't like it.
When I asked again, she came up with a reasonable suggestion for a birthday gift. She also said, "You don't have to get me a gift." I just said , "I know." She seemed happy when I emailed to say it was on its way. (I only did that because it's something she needs for her upcoming bike trip. If I didn't get it, then she would need to make some other arrangements very soon.)
After discussing the pros and cons of her house hunt for a while, she pulled up short. "It can't be very much fun to hear me talk about all this." I didn't respond right away and I think she just changed the subject a bit (don't remember exactly).
Now, a big reason that she said she had to leave is because when other people are around she is too focused on them and their feelings. She wanted to be able to eliminate all that mental noise so she could discern her own feelings. Fine. So, it's a bit exasperating that she's still trying to intuit my feelings and take care of them.
Anyway, I'd like to come up with a response for that sort of thing in the future. Maybe just a kind, "You don't need to worry about that." Or, "Please don't make assumptions about what I think or feel." No, she can think whatever she wants. I guess I'm wanting her to know that I'm responsible for my feelings and that if she wants to know what they are, then assumptions won't do it.
Maybe just ask. "Are you worried about my feelings?" Then reassure that they're my job. Maybe point out that she can ask me about them if she wants, but they're not her responsibility.
I don't know. I'm far from eloquent with this and it seems that I have more thinking to do about it.
Hi SD,
How would you feel about saying to her that you would really like to hear more, that you enjoy when she tells you things about herself and her interests... that you want to know that is important to her..
I know my W was upset near the end that i did not show more interest in her work but she did not tell me..
just a thought. hope you are doing well.
Thanks, NG. Interesting you should suggest that. I've said that to her many times over the years in response to her pausing to note that she's talking too much. Maybe she was just being self-conscious again.
She called today to thank me for the gift that had arrived. We chatted a little, and she was initiating topics of discussion though she reiterated several times that she had just called to thank me. Like she didn't want me to think that she was just calling to talk. She also mentioned that she sent me a newspaper article about some cool local thing I'd find interesting.
I'll be on the road next week and I'm really looking forward to hearing Pia Mellody's audio series on boundaries.
Hi SD, I was thinking about you today and wondering how you are. Perhaps you and Pia are still on the road.
Hope all is well. Check-in with us when you have a chance.
Hey NG. Thanks for checking in. I'm reading along, usually pretty quietly. That's a 180 for me!
Not much to report. P sent a newspaper article she thought I'd be interested in. She went on a week long biking adventure (her first) and called a few days into it to tell me how it was going. I strongly suspect that it was an accidental caffeine excess that day that had her awake enough to call that night. That's when she usually looks to me to help her get to sleep.
I'm still struggling with the bathroom project. I'm plodding along, but it's full of mental obstacles. It feels like a big test and there are a whole lot of opportunities to resent things (especially the idea of taking a test).
A friend asked if the project felt like a symbol of the relationship. Yeah, it's carrying an awful lot of weight.
I'm sorting through my feelings and dealing with emotional baggage. It's just a process. Today I'm thinking about the recurrent stress of not just taking another test, but the fear of flunking. It's gripping and that's not right. Needs some work.
I did have a great week on the road with Pia. Got some good, basic, clear ways to think about and address boundaries. She distinguishes between external boundaries (physical space and sexual touch) and internal boundaries (having to do with how we or others think, feel, or behave).
For people with certain abuse issues, the physical boundaries can be a big deal. They don't seem to be a big issue for me. It's the others. I often hear people talking about setting boundaries with other people to reduce their own discomfort. Pia is very clear that, unless the other person is engaging in major offense (i.e. abuse - disrespectful shouting, put downs, etc.) the boundary is maintained inside of us. Silently.
It is our job to observe. When the other person says something, we decide if we think it is true or not. If it is, then we take it in and process it. If it's not, then don't take it in. We let it drop, noting that it's what the other person thinks. The end. If we're trying to defend ourselves and change how they think then we're violating their boundaries.
Practicing that will keep me busy for a while...
hi SD,
glad to hear that you are plugging along. it sounds like you are developing a great deal of self-awareness, concerning your feelings about the bathroom and boundaries. your friend was insightful, the bathroom project must seem bigger and more emotionally charged due to all the feelings you are having about the R.
i really like what you said about boundaries being internal and how it is how we decide what to think/do about with what others say and do. it is about controlling ourselves versus trying to control others. a picture of a dam comes to mind with us controlling how much/often we let things in.. i like that.
i have tended to let too much in and to be too defensive...co-dep behaviours, I am sure.
if you think of the bathroom as a symbol of your R, what do you think it means about how you are feeling about the R now? do your feelings change or are they fairly consistent?
you seem so strong, patient and able to wait. i feel more like jello
my feelings squiggling all over the place.
thank you for sharing your journey, SD. it really helps me. ((( )))
NG, you are very kind and I appreciate it.
Feelings are fickle things. They always change. What I'm cultivating is the ability to step back and observe. (That "Be Still and Know" meditation is helpful with that.) Some days I can be cheery and productive. Some days I'm agitated as grief is working its way to the surface. Some days it's not exactly grief, but the processing of something or other that this stirs up.
Because I'm getting better at observing what's going on inside of me, I'm able to identify things like this fear of flunking the test. I note it and the feelings work their way up to be processed.
The bathroom project is a daily temptation to go down the road of resentment and negativity. At every little obstacle, my brain is tempted to visit the place where I feel angry or at least annoyed that P isn't here helping, sorry for myself for not having any help, stressed that it's taking so long and I'm going to have a hard time finishing the season's outdoor projects. Oh yeah, and after all this torment I might still flunk the test. I imagine that P is measuring the speed of my progress against her productivity yardstick and I'm coming up short. Whether it's true or not, it's a destructive thought for me to have.
This is an example of me letting her determine my self worth. Identifying this stuff is huge, so I'll congratulate myself for that. Getting through it and past it is a struggle, too. As I was listing all my negative thoughts above, I heard the guy from that meditation, "It's an opportunity." Really, it's quite a few. "Be grateful" he says...
Oh yeah, got a quick email tonight from P. One of our options for a winter gig came through. That's good news, I think.
Not entirely sure what to think about it but I know there's some terror in the mix. Last year, she spent the time silently keeping score, and dropped the bomb the day after we got back. I don't expect that she'd be wanting to do this if that was her plan. (I suspect that she thinks if she has the detachment of going as friends then she won't CARE so much about all those things that were driving her nuts and we'll be more likely to have fun.) Still, I'm going to either have to feel confident that she's not going to do the silent score keeping or confident that I won't feel terrible if she does. I'll start by working on the latter.
P called a couple days later when she had more info about the winter gig. She had enough info that we could start thinking about some details: travel, vehicles, timing, etc.
She said she was just brainstorming ideas, but maybe we could drive down separately. She'd like to have two vehicles there so one of us (her) could take separate day trips and the other wouldn't be stranded. And we wouldn't have to be together 24/7.
She really wants to spend Christmas with her daughter (right near the winter gig and before it starts). She said it more than once and I did indicate that I heard her. There was no indication whether or not I was invited and I couldn't immediately think of a way to ask for clarification without injecting some awkwardness.
She had been planning on coming here to help with some projects in September. Now she has an offer of a bit of work. She'd like to, but she told them she's going to help her friend in September. Friend!
So, in the midst of discussing these hugely positive opportunities for engagement, my brain is hung up on all the little details of distancing. And I get that I'm hypersensitive to indicators of distance.
Pia says we have to celebrate the nos. And it's true. A big reason I'm here is that P spent a lot of time not paying attention to or asking for what she wants. So, I'm grateful when she's paying attention, discerning and verbalizing what she wants. So, instead of silently freaking out, I need to be more proactive about encouraging and validating.
I got over a significant hurdle in the bathroom project yesterday, so that felt good. I'd like to say that it's all downhill from here, but really it's just one hurdle after another.
Hi SD, Congrats on triumphing over that bathroom hurdle.
I find it so interesting that you have this project in her absence and have the space to think about and deal with your internal dialogue.
It seems as if I see that all over the board today, the differences between the situation itself and the internal dialogue we create about ourselves, our R and our S.
It seems like you are taking big steps in awareness...now the next part, what to do.. that is where I get stuck.
I wonder if your inner dialogue is a defense of sorts, if it weren't there about W, what would you think and feel?
I wondered something when I read your post... I notice how quickly you transitioned from your success in the project to looking at the other hurdles... do you give yourself credit? do you allow yourself to enjoy the successes and to appreciate your skills? (i, for one, would never even attempt what you are doing.)
Happy 4th! Hope you have something fun planned!
Hey NG. Thanks for some things to think about.
About the project - I am worried about it coming out okay. Perhaps it's that pessimistic attitude. No matter how many hurdles I successfully jump, I could always bungle it up on the last one, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed until it's really safely done.
It's my general preference for being pleasantly surprised rather than having my bubble burst. I need to look at that. It sounds perfectly reasonable when I say that, but P considers it a negative attitude and it sounds like you're hearing some Eeyore in there, too.
Good point about the busy inner dialog. Clearly more meditation is in order. And I need to remind myself of my calming, detaching mantras. I'm jealous of your sticky notes around the house. I have a housemate so I can't imagine doing that.
You mentioned the inner dialog as a defense. I'm definitely going to do more thinking about that. Initially, I'm wondering if some of this internal struggle is the conflict between wanting to set myself up to be pleasantly surprised (pessimism) and my desire(/need/desperation born of addiction!!!) for hope in the situation. Well, that will keep me busy while I'm tiling!
By the way, jumped a rather major hurdle yesterday when I figured out how to cut a piece of marble for the shampoo shelf. My friend who has every tool on the planet really does have every tool on the planet!
A 2x4 from a local friend reminded me of the mantras I used right after the bomb: "I'm not pining. I'm moving on with my life." Very helpful. With my focus readjusted, last night's lengthy weekly phone call with P was more relaxed and pleasant.
More dates with Pia, as I'm on the road again. That's always helpful, too.
hey SD,
i noticed you posted on zig's thread and wondered how you are doing. are you still on the road? hope you are well. love the mantra you mentioned above and think i will use that one myself today. (((( ))))
Well, it's been ages since I've updated. Things have been pretty quiet. I'm almost done with the bathroom and rarely struggle with resentment about it.
P's calls to chat are more like two weeks apart. In the middle of one, she blurted out that she had bought a house. I get the feeling that she's limiting what she tells me because she's trying to protect my feelings. But then she'll need a favor (me digging up papers about the land she's trying to sell - the land where we were going to build a house) and seem very tentative, apologetic, and grateful when I come through.
Sometimes I've had a run of grumpy thoughts about her. Recently, I've been missing her more. She's supposed to come back in September to help with the roof. As that approaches, a lot of feelings are coming up. And hopes. And we all know that it's a slippery slope into expectations. Ugh.
I've been thinking that I'd like to get my goals into focus. Why is that so hard?
The personal ones are easy enough to lay out, but the R related ones are a big challenge. I might have to join Zig's workshop!
One thing I'm thinking is that when P is here, I need to be diligent in practicing those internal boundaries. Listen and observe, evaluate and either respond or, more likely, STFU as appropriate.
Last time, I got progressively more stressed out by unmet expectations and did not sit quietly with my discomfort. I'd like to be able to be consistently calm and warm (lovingly detached), regardless of whether I'm getting what I want from P at any given time.
I want to have some good mantras in place for times when irritation arises in me or in P. Maybe that old standby, "I'm sorry you feel that way." I guess it would work to tell myself that, too. Ha!
yes it has been ages since you updated - so it's good to hear from you:)
As that approaches, a lot of feelings are coming up. And hopes. And we all know that it's a slippery slope into expectations. Ugh.september is a few weeks away - i think that coming over and setting some personal goals for yourself and VERY specific ones for the r, would do you a lot of good. especially the r ones. because then youcan focus just on those, and there will be less liklihood that you will go down that slippery slope.
besides you will help me out too
because 1. i get to practice and 2. i'll make some along with you that are very specific
we can work on what your expectations could be when she's here, and then you cold stick only to those. and also lay out very concretely what your actions will be for different circumstances so you feel that you are on sure ground when the time comes
as for having mantras in place - even though you can't sticky them all over the house,- you can sticky them all over your mind.
Maybe that old standby, "I'm sorry you feel that way." I guess it would work to tell myself that, too.
stubborn - i know you were sort of joking in a self-deprecating way, but after the third time i read that - i thought - that's brilliant - it's actually very very self-validating!!
i'm going to try that on myself, next time i feel like shite
. so thanks for this!!
(((((( ))))))
^^^ this is a feel better hug
zig
Thanks, Zig. I took a shot at the goals. Once they're refined, maybe I'll bring them back here for tracking.
great start stubborn - will try to reply tonight after s goes to bed.
cheers
zig
Maybe that old standby, "I'm sorry you feel that way." I guess it would work to tell myself that, too.
yup - i used that all last night and today - as i wept pretty much non stop, and it really really helped - i think it was seriously instrumental in calming me down.
talk about self-validation. made me feel so good to comfort myself with those simple words
stubborn you are a genius!!
Careful, you guys. It may not seem so when I'm agonizing over my own sitch, but my head is plenty big enough as it is.
Speaking of agonizing, I'm bringing some of my pre-goal contortions over here so as not to clog the goals thread.
SO I want you to write - for yourself - what does it mean for stubborn to imagine stating and achieving those personal goals, without taking anyone else into consideration? How will she state them, how will she act when she is doing them. what will she do or say if they don't suit someone else. what will it take for stubborn to feel that it is completely okay not to want sugar in her food, even if someone else does? why does stubborn get bothered if P gets peeved if stubborn doesn't want it a certain way as P does?
when you show that you respect your body to take care of it, despite what anyone else may think - it's attractive - calm, non-defensive, self-assured "i don't need you to tell me what's good for me, I know that for myself" attitude
But you can't act like that until you feel like that - so let's work on that first okay?
Yes, something is broken. Some of it is just basic codependent fears that need more work. Some of it is tied in with specific past hurts with P. So, even if I know that it's perfectly reasonable for me to choose foods that P finds annoying or inconvenient, there's the big fat association in my head of "P complained about that and then she dumped me." That's a hurdle for me to get over.
To be fair, P said she felt like I was picky about too many details in life. I was usually expressing my opinions and preferences, and she was usually opting to just go along rather than express hers. Eventually, it felt like too much to her and even my reasonable requests felt unreasonable. The truth is that I need to STFU a whole lot more and make more space for P to express herself. That does not mean that I let go of what is really important to me.
My challenge is to identify what's really important and let go of what's not. I hope that if she's not being overloaded by excess demands P will respect and be at ease with the reasonable boundaries I will have. I can't control that. I can only hope. And I do, because the rejection feels really lousy.
From listening to all those Pia Mellody tapes, I see that my urge to control all the details around me is an attempt to minimize my discomfort with the difficulties of life. I've been practicing my new tools for coping on my irritating housemate. I still have a long way to go, but things feel lighter and easier.
Enough detour.
what does it mean for stubborn to imagine stating and achieving those personal goals, without taking anyone else into consideration?It means letting go. Jumping off a cliff. Facing the possibility of excluding P or causing her to reject me. (Yes, I know. She already has. So much for genius!) There's fear. Core codependent stuff. So, the flip side is that if I do this then I am free of that chain. At least for the moment!
How will she state them?Simply and confidently.
how will she act when she is doing them?Quiet, calm, and confident.
what will she do or say if they don't suit someone else?I can say, "I'm sorry you feel that way."
Then, if it's P, I will grieve the loss of the desire to make allowances and be kind.
what will it take for stubborn to feel that it is completely okay not to want sugar in her food, even if someone else does? Really I do. I'm stymied by the consequences, though. I understand why P has an unreasonable response to this particular thing. I helped create it and now I get stuck in it.
why does stubborn get bothered if P gets peeved if stubborn doesn't want it a certain way as P does?I think I answered that one first. Because she dumped me over her peeves.
Okay, enough for tonight. Thanks again for all your help, Zig.
you're welcome, stubborn - you are doing brilliant
keep digging, okay?
what will it take for stubborn to feel that it is completely okay not to want sugar in her food, even if someone else does?
Really I do. I'm stymied by the consequences, though. I understand why P has an unreasonable response to this particular thing. I helped create it and now I get stuck in it.
are you sure you helped create it?
i thought i did too for a long time - similar stuff, then i started to STOP being responsible for my h's decisions on how he was going to react to what ever was in his life, and decided that i would only be responsible for my reactions.
we know now, through all we've learned through DB'ing that only we are responsible for how we choose to react to what comes into our circle. we don't expect to put the blame onto anyone else any longer, because we know we have control over which way we choose to go.
why would we then not apply the same concept to our spouses?
how could you do something different so you don't get stuck in it??
Because she dumped me over her peeves.
yes i was so conscious of that for a long time - it did drive many of the changes i initially made. but there will come a point where you will be independent of that thought and your changes will continue, regardless of whether it was an issue for your spouse or not.
we need to continually strive for that point...
thanks for all the support and the hugs today - it meant a lot to me
((((( )))))
zig
are you sure you helped create it?
Yes, but thanks for the reminder that I wasn't dancing solo. I had my part in it and I can address that (after I jump the hurdle of the fear). That alone changes the dance. P can address her part or not.
how could you do something different so you don't get stuck in it??This processing is it. Recognizing the dynamics, processing my feelings. Then I don't feel so deer in the headlights. I remember all the things I know that evaporate out of my brain when I start to feel I'm in a stuck spot. I always try to come up with mantras that will help talk me down, bring me back to where my brain will work again.
Because she dumped me over her peeves.
yes i was so conscious of that for a long time - it did drive many of the changes i initially made. but there will come a point where you will be independent of that thought and your changes will continue, regardless of whether it was an issue for your spouse or not.
we need to continually strive for that point...
Yes, and intellectually I know that some of her complaints were real and valid, while others were just irritation and rationalizing - spew. Sometimes it's hard to know which was which. And even when I want to dismiss one as static born of her general dissatisfaction and anger before she left, I definitely have the emotional memory that gives me pause.
I know that I can't stay stuck and hung up on any of these painful hurdles. There's no way forward without finding a way to be open. If I let the painful spots close me down, then I'll just be on this treadmill forever. It's already been long enough to seem like forever...
I'm thinking that some good practice for me might be to replay some of the painful conversations in my head while using the internal boundaries I learned from Pia. Analyzing the painful things P said, having my feelings about them if they're true (accepting and apologizing), letting them drop and saying "I'm sorry you feel that way" if they're not.
Okay, I'm going to do that while making lunch!
I'm thinking about mantras to help overcome the hesitation from those fear hurdles that pop up here and there.
For perspective: "What's she going to do, dump me?" (If I've already faced my worst fears, why am I hung up on anything else?)
Give myself reassurance: "I have everything I need to handle whatever unfolds."
Embrace fear in this situation as it proves that I'm stepping outside of my comfort zone and doing things differently. Instead of getting slowed down by fear, I can feel proud for moving through it.
Regarding my issues of wanting to control things (with anyone) to minimize my discomfort:
Remember to be an observer, think: "Isn't that interesting?", and STFU.
I'm sure that all sounded like a detour, but I'm thinking of it as a prerequisite. Now I'm headed back over to the goals thread for a second try.
as long as the detours help you to find the right way to where you're going - then they can be really useful.
sounds to me like it's not so much a detour as a preparation step
- that you recognize that in order to really fulfill your goals, you have to change your perspective first....
see you on the goals thread:)
zig
ps - i love the new quiet determination you are beginning to express - it's showing a lot of focus - which is imperative for pursuing and reaching your goals
Copying the goals over here for ease of reference and tracking.
For the next two weeks:
1. I will value myself by improving my fitness.
Action: 3x 30 min biking or other cardio each week and 3x 30 min strength training.
I will feel energized, physically competent, and proud of my improvements.
2. I will value myself by continuing to prioritize healthy eating.
Action: I will make sure to have healthy food available whether I'm at home or on the road. I will think about options for how I want to handle occasional "cheating". How often feels right to me and under what circumstances?
I will feel relaxed, knowing that I'm nurturing good health. When my boundaries for diversions are clarified, I'll feel calm and in control.
3. I will nurture my PMA by paying attention to my feelings and addressing any issues that arise.
Action: I will stick to goals 1 and 2. I will remember to smile. I will review helpful mantras or meditate daily. I will sit with discomfort, remembering to comfort myself with helpful mantras.
I will feel centered, warm, open, and resilient.
Thanks for all your help, Zig. I felt like I was doing fine for quite a while, then P's impending visit caused more "stuff" to bubble to the surface. I appreciate your effort and skill in pulling me out of that little tailspin. I feel immensely better. I'm sure more will come, but practice climbing out makes it easier next time.
In rewriting the goals, in addition to the format, I found a couple particularly helpful things I borrowed from others. Prefacing it with "for the next two weeks" makes it feel very short term, finite and doable. NG's "I will value myself by..." reminds me to identify what core needs are being met each goal. That feels empowering.
I'm thinking about mantras to help overcome the hesitation from those fear hurdles that pop up here and there.
For perspective: "What's she going to do, dump me?" (If I've already faced my worst fears, why am I hung up on anything else?)
Give myself reassurance: "I have everything I need to handle whatever unfolds."
Embrace fear in this situation as it proves that I'm stepping outside of my comfort zone and doing things differently. Instead of getting slowed down by fear, I can feel proud for moving through it.
Regarding my issues of wanting to control things (with anyone) to minimize my discomfort:
Remember to be an observer, think: "Isn't that interesting?", and STFU.
I'm sure that all sounded like a detour, but I'm thinking of it as a prerequisite. Now I'm headed back over to the goals thread for a second try.
Detour?!? I love this... so much so that I am going to steal it.
Steal away, NG.
Daily check-in for my goals. Food and exercise, check and check. PMA, dragging a bit.
The final stretch on the tiling is really tough. Every single tile needs to be cut and fit. The saw shot what seemed like a handful of tile dust in my eye yesterday, so it was squinty, painful, cyclops tile setting. Not perfect, but I'm no longer fearing blindness this morning. Four more nasty tiles to go before moving on to grout land. I'm frustrated by the "everything always takes longer" law of nature.
Goal #3 is to pay attention to this and find some helpful mantras to keep me moving through it.
Maybe I should start with my all purpose home improvement motto: "Well, it'll be a lot better than it was." It's actually looking pretty good at this point. I think I avoided any loud imperfections that will grab they eye. Relative to the relentless non-squareness of the old house, my work looks more exact than it is. Big relief. I can see that it's going to look okay.
Maybe another mantra about one step at a time. Just keep moving forward. Focus on what's immediately in front of me and not the overwhelming size of the task.
Rather than be discouraged about what's dragging, I can focus on being proud of myself for all that is getting accomplished. Like, I'm getting rid of excess stuff via recycle and craigslist. (Someone just called about something. Yay!) And I'm learning Spanish, listening to CD's, amusing the neighbors as I recite Spanish phrases while on my bike rides.
I will continue to do what I can and it will be good enough.
Pero muy bien de aprender otro idioma. A phrase that I always liked is "mejor solo que mal acompaniado". Keep up with those goals.
Dang, Rick, I can see that I'm going to have to keep studying. I'm still looking for "el hotel e el restaurante". Thanks for a little inspiration.
hey stubborn - how are you?
thanks for that wonderful bird thing - hit the spot!!
hope you're having a good weekend:)
zig
Hey Zig.
I got the last four tiles in without poking an eye out, so that's something. Grout tomorrow.
It really looks pretty darned good. I spent a lot of time cutting tiles and agonizing about how to fit them around the awkwardly placed window. It looks good. My accent strip of hand placed mosaic tiles - looks good. My niche - you have to stand in one very unlikely spot in order to notice anything not so good. Big relief.
I'm really looking forward to this project being finished...
way to go, SD. that can't have been an easy project.. congrats!!
great job stubborn - i have to say i'm not quite ready for that kind of project yet - something about it intimidates me no end!! it's as if i completely believe i'm not capable of that sort of patience
good luck with the grouting:) - i've heard it's the easier part??
you are going to feel so good when that project is done
my horoscope today said - 'get your house in order'
so that's what i'm doing
maybe it will help to take the shakiness away...
hope you have a wonderful day
zig
Last night, in a weak moment, a friend offered to help me with the grout today. I took her up on it. Good thing, or I'd still be in there. Long, exhausting, messy, but wow it looks great! Did I mention how great my accent strip looks? We were both taking photos when we finished.
That's all the excitement for today. Now I have to finish packing for my week on the road and get to bed before I fall asleep right here.
Not sure when I'll have a chance to check in this week. Y'all stay out of trouble when I'm not lookin'. Just get on that blanket and don't move.
you too, stubborn
when you say week on the road - i imagine a motorbike
hope you have a great week - and wowo on the grout job! isn't it loverly when friends come in to help?
Yeah, a motorbike would be fun! One time the rental car was a little Fiat. It was hilarious how guys came out of the woodwork for a look or maybe I'd just let them sit in it for a minute?
I'm on track with the food and fitness goals. Went out for dinner and a tour of the town with a business acquaintance. She's great fun (and married, so don't get any ideas...) PMA is okay. The Spanish language CDs threw a few more verbs into the mix and they're spilling out my ears.
P emailed yesterday with her intended arrival time and suggested that we talk on the phone to make sure all our ducks were lined up. I did start to wonder (okay - worry about) what she had up her sleeve, but she called tonight and it was just a few minor logistical concerns about her D's visit.
I expected that she had closed on a house by now, but she hadn't kept me in the loop about it. I asked, and yes she had closed last week. I congratulated her and generally acted more excited about it than she did. She told me about her moving adventures and fix-up projects. I was encouraging about her abilities and validated her frustrations.
She reiterated that she would work on whatever project I wanted when she arrives. I appreciate it but I sure don't understand it.
We talked for about half an hour. We were both tired. I ended it first.
It was a perfectly fine conversation and I was a bit unsettled afterward. The distance. What's not there is bothersome. I need to have a mantra about that. Is it Adinva who reminds herself, "This is my new reality"? Just observe. It is what it is.
Daily report on the goals... Doing okay on the workouts. The healthy food took a slight detour at a very nice little Mexican restaurant. Slight.
PMA is okay. Good time to review mantras, though. And get to bed earlier!
G'night all.
It was a perfectly fine conversation and I was a bit unsettled afterward. The distance. What's not there is bothersome. I need to have a mantra about that. Is it Adinva who reminds herself, "This is my new reality"? Just observe. It is what it is.
hey SD, yes I know that feeling well. i think your mantra is a good one. it is almost like we have to erase the past and think of it as starting over with someone new whom we know really, really well
Hey, NG. I'm thinking that I have to get some mantras someplace accessible. In my pocket, since sticky notes are out.
P is planning on arriving Wednesday or Thursday. Time to think about the R goals again. Tomorrow when I'm more awake...
I did pretty well with food and exercise on my trip. While driving, I alternated the Spanish lesson CDs with Pia's series on boundaries. She talks about practicing good boundaries being the basis for intimacy, the alive feeling in Rs, and spiritual connection. All very motivational.
When I got back, I had an opportunity to practice a bit. My heroic grouting friend is in the midst of transitioning some meds. I was going to stop over at her place for dinner, but something set her off and she left a fuming message on my phone. I decided not to call back. No need to engage while she's in that mood. In the past, I would have been stressed out about it.
hi SD, maybe you can sticky note them in Spanish??
seriously though, could you write them in a notebook and maybe spend some time every morning reviewing... or spend some time imagining yourself implementing them so that you form a visual picture of you living them to help you later..
sounds like a good decision to not call your friend. love that you are able to wait instead of needing to try and fix it.. i need some pia tapes, sounds like she is a real help.
i think you are more ready for the visit than you think, SD!
Great ideas, NG!
My first thought on the Spanish sticky notes was that I'd be concentrating so hard on trying to decipher them that it would pull me out of whatever angst I'd landed in. I really like the idea. They'd go right by my housemate. Not too sure about P though... Just my luck she'd probably understand them better than I would!
I like the idea of a notebook and visualizing some positive scenarios.
Somehow, this reminded me that Pia uses a visualization about a blue box. When someone says something, she visualizes it coming at her in a blue box and she then decides what to do with the blue box (let it past the boundaries or not, depending on whether it's true, all while STFU).
I have quite a few origami boxes tucked away. I think I need to pull them out and get them displayed in each room where I can see them. They will be my secret notes to myself.
Hi Sd, I think that is an awesome idea about the origami boxes.. what is the name of the Pia tapes that you have? i think i need them
Hey NG.
I have the "Boundaries" set, which gives step by step instructions for getting your personal boundaries up and running. One of my favorite quotes comes when she's explaining that you're not to try to set things straight when someone is saying infuriatingly untrue stuff to you: "Being them is punishment enough."
I also have the "Co-addicted Relationships" set. This one is really good at explaining what's unhealthy in most relationships and why. It also lays out the steps to take for healing and moving into healthy Rs. It clarifies what codependence is (basically a bit, or perhaps a lot, of immaturity) and the difference between that and love addiction (what most people think of as codependence). As I've said before, listening to this one is always an inspirational kick in the arse. Pia's examples are of rather extreme cases, but the hint of recognition really boosts awareness of the things I need to work on. I might still be stuck in some of my bad patterns, but at least there's Pia's voice in my head pointing it out to me.
Goals report: Logged 23 miles on my bike yesterday, while listening to Spanish lessons. And I just want to point out that I do not live in a flat area. I arrived at a friend's house for lunch and tried to use a little of my new Spanish. It didn't go as I'd hoped. Sigh. I'll keep plugging away.
One of my challenges since P left has been dealing with an annoying housemate. He's a really nice guy, but leaves a trail in the kitchen and bathroom. P happily cleaned up after him when she was here. I have very little tolerance for cleaning up after him. He also has a different sense of boundaries so is completely comfortable using (abusing, "it broke", not replacing...) anything he can find, regardless of whose it is. This has been very good practice for me in addressing difficult concerns, as well as figuring out and enforcing my boundaries. I've become more relaxed about figuring out a path forward.
I frequently do the math in my head. The rent is pretty compelling (and he's a known quantity, whereas a different housemate would be an unknown quantity - maybe better, maybe not). The other big factor is that he takes care of P's cats when I'm on the road and when we take off for winter gigs. (Now that P isn't living here, I'm paying the full price in picking up after him.) Third factor is me feeling guilty if I kick him out. Since I've made clear requests more than once, and he's unable (though not unwilling) to fulfill them, this is diminishing. Fourth factor is that me kicking him out would be a black mark against me on P's scorecard. Yeah, I need to work through that. One of her complaints was that I'm too hard, not kind enough. I think she'd be more comfortable if I was more like her and always said "it'll be fine". On the one hand she recognizes that she needs to be more assertive, but on the other hand she's horrified when I am. I can see that these are some of her messed up issues and examples of poor boundaries on her part, but I know the consequences on the scorecard.
So, here's where I want to be: I can be open and kind and communicative with the housemate. I can state what my limits are. If he's not with the program, I can choose to give him notice. I can look for another housemate. I can't control what P thinks about any of it. I don't want to be in an R if I have to compromise at that level.
I look around the boards and I see all manner of difficult compromises being required. It's true, but there's a line. Sometimes it's just hard to find it. What is stepping out of my comfort zone toward a good end and what is compromising my integrity? That will be my question to ponder for today.
I can't control what P thinks about any of it.glad to see you making this shift ^^^^
i've just recently been able to think like that for the first time - where I am not going to worry what my h thinks about anything - and that it is okay to feel that way.
you've put a lot of thought into the roommate issue. so stubborn - it occured to me - especially when you mentioned towards the end :
Fourth factor is that me kicking him out would be a black mark against me on P's scorecard. Yeah, I need to work through that.that it's great that you are aware that you have to work through this issue. how about considering a list of goals towards that end. if your living situation is not satisfactory and you are influenced by P's opinion on it, there's a nice fat learning curve towards some new growth inherent in there.
you can approach it in 2 ways - after you decide. the goals you would need to achieve to learn to live with what you perceive as a difficult roommate or the goals you would pursue if you wanted to ask him to leave. both have good opportunities for you to practice new things for yourself
you sound on the whole as if you are in a much better place than a few weeks ago when we started the goals thread - there's a new more confident tone in your writing - and i'm so pleased for you
hope things are going well
((((((( ))))))))
zig
I didn't do any workout yesterday and my mood dipped noticeably. And my heroic grouting friend just gave notice to her GF. That bummed me out and unsettled some of my support landscape.
My parents visited for lunch today, bearing gobs of homemade, sugar-laden gifts. Sigh. I've been worried about my Dad's declining health and mood, which I attribute to too much medication from a doctor I'm not so impressed with. The good news is that he seems to be at the point where, after Mom gave up nudging and I started, he seems open and perhaps even inspired to research some alternatives.
P should be arriving Thursday evening. I'll be out at a meeting. She just happened to hit that every other Thursday. I'm stressing a bit about the list of things I want to get done before she arrives. Feeling overwhelmed by my list in general and having a hard time focusing on the computer work. Veering toward some old, unproductive habits. Feeling a little sticky on my feet and remembering the old stuck in molasses feeling.
...need to keep moving...
I'm going to write out a list for tomorrow. Paper seems to work better than electronic. Alternate computer and active tasks. Make sure to get a bike ride in if the weather allows.
I'm thinking of hiding little notes inside the origami boxes, or even putting little sticky notes on their bottoms.
In email, P said she's "looking forward to seeing you, the cats, [the housemate], etc." At least I got top billing. No telling what etc. is.
Today's addition to the list of mantras: When P is kind it is a sign that she wants to be a kind person. Nothing else.
I like that mantra, good one for me to take on. Thanks!
Cross posting. Thanks Zig. More to think about. And definitely easier to sort out when I'm not all contorted about P's opinion. I imagine.
Thanks Bug. I need to get my mantras rounded up before they start wandering off.
read your post sd - time to go read your goals and stop the spinning before it reaches a speed where it's not all that easy to slow down.
so what i all on this list you have to get done before P arrives?
are they on that list because you want to impress her in some way?
i ask, because that's what i did for a long time - always trying to give h the impression that i was totally with it, on it and had my [censored] togehter.
i finally stopped - it's bl@@dy exhausting.
only do the things that you need to do for YOU - not for her. she can take it or leave it.
your starting to feel overwhelmed by that list is a good sign that you aren't necessarily doing those things for you. so go back to your goals, read them as often as you can - actually reading them, will help tremendously in centering you again.
and make it First Priority - over everything else that you will center and ground yourself before taking care of anything else or anyone els
you can do this sweet girl - you're there, but you maybe just don't quite know it
i read something that really helped me from Beattie's book - that we have to learn to trust that we will make it through the ordeal and come out fine - and i realized that i hadn't felt that yet - and it's time to start believing that we ARE strong enough to make it through this
(((((( ))))))
zig
Hi SD, how about some mantras to keep you focused on you? like asking yourself "what is best for me right now?" or even reminding yourself to get back on the picnic blanket. i like how busting has been doing that with her H lately, going to her room when she needs, taking breaks or going on the computer..
i still love the origami boxes as a visual reminder, perhaps you can have each one remind you of a different mantra.
we will be here as busting told you!!
hey SD, will you be able to post while she is there? i am hoping that we can support you the way you have supported all of us. (((((((( )))))))))
Hey NG. Thanks for the mantra suggestions. I can always use those! Yeah, I'll be able to post, though one of my 180s is to not spend so much time in front of the computer...
DB coach always asks, "What will she SEE that's different?" Mentally, I have to add, "And what will she not see that's more of the same?"
Thanks, Zig, for the jelly bean trail out of my funk. I focused and got some work done this morning, then got my bike ride in (while getting my counting up to nine in Spanish). Those endorphins really are magical.
Some of the stuff on my list is about having the house all clean and neat. Some is about getting things lined up for the roof project. In both cases, I have fears about flunking P's (conscious or not) tests. I have to keep reminding myself that it all has to be good enough for me, that what matters is that I respect myself.
Thanks Zig, also, for the thoughts about the housemate. Since P left, I've spent a lot of time and energy sorting through it all. And there's still a long way to go.
It took me a long time and a lot of meditation to get to the point where I could have a reasonable conversation with him about a couple of my biggest complaints. I thought it wasn't fair of me to expect him to read my mind and it was rather immature of me to just be frustrated and angry. I started with some simple requests, first general, then more specific and blunt, restated over time as they didn't seem to have any effect despite his nodding or saying yes. We had a scheduled conversation a few weeks ago. I was truly touched by his sensitivity, responsiveness, and kind approach. And not one bit of change resulted.
Now if I were P or, say, Mother Theresa, perhaps I really wouldn't mind cleaning up after him. But I do. Now, I can see that this is a great opportunity to practice kindness, letting go of some things, stepping outside my comfort zone, and on and on. I'm willing to do that some, but likely not as much as would be required here. My approach to this is to practice all of the above, along with asking for what I want, and trying to discern and decide on my own reasonable limits.
I'm at the point where I can deal with most of the daily issues without getting homicidal, but it is exacerbated when I'm away for a week or (wow) a few months on a winter gig. It's really discouraging to get home from the week long trips and have to deal with a week's worth of disgust. Obviously much worse if it's a few months.
I've put a lot of time, effort, and money into fixing up my house so that I can sell it at some point in the near future. One lengthy project was redoing old pine floors in a large room. The second it was finished, housemate started wiggling cat toys on it, causing his cat to gouge it. Last winter, he moved heavy furniture around for a photo shoot and left multiple long gouges that I can't even fathom how to repair. That stuff just makes me sick. I worry about what he might do to my bathroom project. And I can't bring myself to do the desperately needed kitchen improvements because it's way too likely he'll ruin them.
P says I'm overreacting. If she's willing to do things twice, or throw money away, that's fine. But she's taken herself out of the picture. I'm not willing to do things twice and I can't afford to. There's a "same old" - me being pessimistic and P thinking everything will be fine. I supposed if I stated it differently it could be framed as me being prudent and financially responsible.
Just more thinking out loud. Welcoming feedback on what y'all are seeing.
hi there stubborn - checking in to see where you are truly at tonight - are you centered grounded, as much as you can be? or are you feeling a bit edgy?
we're here to walk you through this. and frankly about your 180 to not spend time on the computer? my thoughts are that if you are spinning or having a hard time, it is much more beneficial to you to come on here and journal and post and calm down than to try and stick to that.
don't forget - from now on out -
you are only doing what is good for stubborn.treat w as you would any house guest - and even better treat her like you would a guest who was a friend of a friend. friendly, welcoming, polite, warm, but not someone you are going to tell your life story to
i like what j3b said to busting today - NOT cool and aloof, but
warm and aloof.
from where you are standing, w has lost the right to anything more than that. she only gets it if she works for it.
what was finally the turning point for me in the last few weeks was to keep telling myself that i don't have to do anymore here - it's his turn to do the work for it. he may , he may not...
Feel that you are worthy of her working for your approval and affection.
So you are going to be just great - in fact i've got a very strong feeling that you are going to pull a busting on us here, and be totally awesome - and really astonish yourself.
in fact, right before you fall asleep - IMAGINE- for a few minutes how you think you should be - and then just be it!!
hey - come have some champagne - we're celebrating ng - and you're up next fer sure
- woohoo, (excitedly jumping up and down) we are going to drink champagne every night for a while
{{{sd }}}
zig
ps hey btw - why stubborn? are you still stubborn??
Hey Zig, thanks for the pep talk.
I'll definitely be checking in here. I just have to be careful not to stay parked too long. I suspect my substantive posting will drop because I'm actually very slow at writing.
Stubborn? Yeah. Not sure what name I might have chosen if that one wasn't already in place. I have eight planets in earth signs. Remember that our weaknesses are also our strengths. The stubbornness that gets me in trouble is also the stubbornness that feeds my persistence, my accomplishments, my choosing the DB path.
Yes, I need to remember that P doesn't get a free pass. I'm also at the point in my sitch where I need to be showing consistent changes. (My timeline is almost exactly the same as NG's.) I'm not as far along as you are just because of the time frame. I had a few weeks before she left, and another week's visit, then very little contact for three months. I see it as my job now to show consistent changes. Taking good care of myself is one of those changes and essential to the others.
If and when P gets irritable or critical at all, I'm to remember to listen, validate, say or think, "I'm sorry you feel that way", and otherwise STFU. All while warmly smiling in that irresistible confident way I have.
yes, SD.. LOVE the last few lines about how to handle the critical P....
i think your plan will disarm the criticisms...and not allow them to get bigger which is what I think our WAS' do to justify their actions...
it is their defense against the fear. it keeps them at a safe distance..
and by validating and then moving on confidently, perhaps she will feel safe to as well..
we are all pulling for you!!!! you sound so ready for this!! (((((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))
Thanks NG. It sure is nice to have a posse with me at the picnic.
like your answer, girl - how ya doing?
and you don't have just a posse - you have the whole she-bang.
if you get that pit in your stomach feeling or i'm about to spin or any of those "off the blanket" symptoms - just bring this image up in your head -
All of us, standing guard on the blanket waving our shields of courage with one arm, holding a turtle under the other arm and STANDING on the elephant that we are devouring, one bite at a time. and busting is dressed all lacy and frilly - pouring straight vodka for maximum sustenance
and if that image just doesn't get you laughing in an utterly silly manner right there on the spot - well then, you'll have to come post won't you
{{{SD }}}
go get 'em, stubborn!
love zig
Quick check in. Things are fine. I'll have more time to post when I'm on the road next week.
Everybody enjoying their picnic???
Glad to hear it!!! And being on the road gives your a chance to regroup and listen to Pia. Awesome! The picnic is roaring. (((((((( ))))))))))
Yeah. Can't wait to catch up on Pia (and my Spanish lessons).
Brief report. P, with her newfound detachment, is solicitous about my new food program and ever so understanding about housemate challenges. Her first day here I inquired about her cat plans for the winter gig, making it clear that that was a big factor in my math with the housemate. She insisted I not keep him around for her cats.
Another friend (an occupational therapist with lots of experience dealing with folks like housemate) gave me her professional opinion that it was hopeless that the living situation would ever be satisfactory. I bit the bullet and gave him notice this morning. I feel bad for him, but I think it's the best way to take care of me. And that is my job, after all.
I'll be on the road tomorrow, missing most of P's daughter's visit.
I'll check in more during the week. Y'all stay out of trouble!
Congrats on taking the step to make your housing situation a little more peaceful. We'll hold down the fort while you're gone
wow stubborn - when you make leaps you jump high don't you?
glad to hear that everything went smoothly.
Do I take it that from your brief report you are well on the blanket?
about w being solicitous - my h does the same - i think it's their way of feeling as if they are acting "right"
glad you get some space away - hope you have a wonderful week
zig