Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: 2thepoint Time to take out the trash - 04/10/12 08:55 PM
New thread time. Below are the links to my old threads:

Thread 10
Thread 9
Thread 8
Thread 7
Thread 6
Thread 5
Thread 4
Thread 3
Thread 2
Thread 1

==========================================

Before getting started, I wanted to follow up on a few comments from my last thread.


Originally Posted By: bustorama
Re: the C -- you can't control what the C says or does, and I know it [censored] to hear those sorts of things. I heard similar. In fact, I remember my W relating to me how her C told her in these words, YOU HAVE TO GET OUT OF THAT TOXIC ENVIRONMENT WITH YOUR H. IT IS SO UNHEALTHY FOR BOTH OF YOU TO BE THERE. YOU NEED TO MOVE OUT **NOW**, WHAT IS TAKING YOU SO LONG? YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN MOVED OUT WEEKS AGO. This was early in our sitch (just after the bomb and in the month before she moved out).

My W's C was TOTALLY validating how my W felt -- that she needed to get away from her H, that I was the source of her misery. And the toxic environment she was referring to was me trying to influence my W to stay, through various acts of pursuit, giving, offers, melty man. She was indubitably on my W's side (and I was not).

I saw my W's C as "the enemy" and if I could control who she was seeing as C, perhaps things might be better. Luckily, I addressed my anxiety about this (which is what is the real issue now with you 2pac) instead of trying to act on it. One day, her C told me to give my W space (I was in the waiting room to see my own C), to GIVE HER ALL THE SPACE SHE NEEDED and that she was "pulling for each of us." I was very confused to hear this based on what my W had told me, and I thought I was giving her all kinds of space at that time, not calling her, etc.. When, in reality, I was still pursuing in my actions when I did see her, in "acts of service", "giving", etc.


This ^^^^ was so helpful to read! I really was feeling like the air had been sucked out of my lungs.

Originally Posted By: bustorama
It was when I genuinely gave my W ALL THE SPACE she was asking for that my W really could begin to heal and view how life without Busto might be and whether that was what she truly wanted. Perhaps it is in your case, perhaps not.

I saw my W's old C in the waiting room of the office earlier this week while I was dropping off my D6 for a therapy session (D6 is resolving some anxiety issues that arose from our separation). The C gave me a huge hug and said how happy she was that we had come back together, that we each had needed space to heal and grow.

Your W's C might not be coming from this place, but I would say that the current dynamic is not healthy for either of you.


You are probably right, Busto. I saw the note and really panicked...thought, this was the end, etc.

=========================================

Originally Posted By: Mach1
It's not the caring part that does you in. It is the expectations that you place on what you do, that does you in. I think you are still expecting her to change, based on what you do today. In actuality, it is what you consistently do today, that can slowly change her mind. With each today, it gives you hope of the future, not a promise of the future.

The counselor? There is nothing you can do about it. That is her choice, and you should honor it. Any attempt to change that would be viewed as manipulative on your part. Would you rather have her choose to come home ? Or feel she has to come home....


Really good perspective, Mach! And to answer your question, I'd rather have her choose to come home...

Originally Posted By: Mach1
The only guarantee I can make you, is that in a few years, this will all be over for you....one way or another. And that you will be a Father , and a man that is capable of being a loving partner. A man that makes great decisions, and has the self awareness to allow his partner to find their way in life. So that they can walk beside you...not in front, or behind you.

Ask any woman if she would like that....


Love this ^^^^!!! What a great way to look at things! But a few years!?!?!? Ugh!

===============================

So I've been feeling like I am living in limbo and need to do something different. Everything I've done up to this point has helped to stabilize my mind set (with a few exceptions ^^^^^) and slow down the march towards divorce. I've had time to consider and implement 180's that were needed in my life and due to my W's illness, I've also been able to demonstrate acts of service that might otherwise not have been possible.

Yet, here I am still separated from my W, still uncertain of my future and feeling like I've driven my self into a ditch and am just spinning my wheels.

I have been getting advice from elsewhere that if I really want to move things along and save my M then I should move back in to the house, demand full transparency and if my W refuses, ask her to leave, regardless of her medical condition.

I am really having a hard time coming to terms with this approach. Intellectually, I see how this may be helpful and even necessary but I just can't see making this happen. Maybe it is fear...probably it is fear!

Ideas anyone?

==================================

In the past week some interesting things have been happening with my W. First, I was finally able to get her Dr. and her disability people together to review her case and lo and behold, her disability has been extended through May 31st. That came as a tremendous relief to my W who broke down in tears when I gave her the good news. She was preparing to go back to work yesterday even though she did not feel like she was ready. So now she has breathing room.

Last week, W suggested we take the boys to a hockey game. It was too late to get the tickets so we made a rain check for a different day. Then she suggested we do something as a family on Easter Sunday. We ended up going to see a movie. Oh, and she made me a small Easter basket!

I told her that next Saturday I was going to help family friends watch their kids while they attend a wedding and she offered to help me watch the kids.

This morning W and S13 were getting into it over his laziness related to turning in school assignments on time. I ended up having to lay down the law with him before he left for school. w texts me later apologizing for this morning. confused

Finally, I stopped cleaning up the dirty dishes or taking out the trash...until this morning that is, when W asked me if I wouldn't mind helping her take the trash out to the bin. grin
Posted By: labug Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 12:13 AM
No Way?!?!?!
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 01:02 AM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint


I have been getting advice from elsewhere that if I really want to move things along and save my M then I should move back in to the house, demand full transparency and if my W refuses, ask her to leave, regardless of her medical condition.

I am really having a hard time coming to terms with this approach. Intellectually, I see how this may be helpful and even necessary but I just can't see making this happen. Maybe it is fear...probably it is fear!

Ideas anyone?



Yes. Lose the fear. That, and do something different from what you've been doing so far, because it's not working.

What do you have to lose by trying? confused


Starsky
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 01:41 AM
You will do things when you are ready. Its good that you can see that there is another way to handle your sitch but you are doing the best you can. You should give yourself a lot of credit. There is no right way.
Posted By: bustorama Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 03:08 PM
There are a couple of quick paths out of limboville when you lose the fear and are ready.

One is that you walk away from it yourself while YOU drop the BOMB on HER (flip the sitch), holding onto your NUTS about what you need from a W in a marriage.

"W, this separation situation isn't working for me anymore. I enjoy spending time with you when we are together, but I want more [commitment, love, time together, investment in our M, whatever] from my W than you are giving me. I'm not ok with going on like this anymore, so I will file for D. Can you please pass on your attorney's name to me? We can be good co-parents to our S together and maybe even friends after things settle down."

The other is you walk back into the fray, also holding on to your NUTS about what is acceptable behavior to you from your W, while pulling the RobX I mentioned to you before.

"W, I have decided to move back into the family home and master bedroom. This separation situation isn't working for me anymore.
I am not ok with being in a M where we aren't [connecting, commmited to each other, loving, spending time together, investing in our M, whatever] or with being outside my family home. I am also not ok with sharing my W another M while she tests the waters. If you want to carry on with him, then it is time that you move out of the family home. I will help you pack your things if that is what you want."

(and if she says she wants to stay and work on things with you, you lay out the conditions that are essential to you to feel safe moving forward with her [transparency at minimum, probably also M therapist]. If she's not ok with them, then say, sorry, W, that doesn't work for me given the situation.

Lose the fear, and you lose the limbo.
Posted By: bustorama Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 03:12 PM
Funny about the trash.

Both of the above scenarios, btw, are about enforcing your boundaries concerning M (the type of M and spousal behavior that you are ok with). It is a beautiful day when you lose the fear about enforcing your non-negotiable boundaries.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 03:48 PM
Originally Posted By: bustorama

Both of the above scenarios, btw, are about enforcing your boundaries concerning M (the type of M and spousal behavior that you are ok with). It is a beautiful day when you lose the fear about enforcing your non-negotiable boundaries.


It's true, once I was strong enough to do this and lose the fear, it was a world of difference for me. He may still be struggling and in limbo but I feel detached and strong. Best of luck as you move forward.
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 04:35 PM
Can't believe u took the trash out 2, lol
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 04:39 PM
If you do as Busto suggested above are you prepared to deal with her saying no to your requests and accepting the divorce at this time?

I feel like I need to change some things up as well since I know pursuing hasn't worked but neither has me going dim. I don't feel like it's time yet for me to give her this type of ultimatum as I still feel like I need to give her time or space.

Not much advice for you but I share in your frustrations of limbo-land.
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 06:49 PM
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Yes. Lose the fear. That, and do something different from what you've been doing so far, because it's not working.

What do you have to lose by trying? confused

Starsky


Starsky - that ^^^ is what I fear...the unknown or the possibility of seeing things through to D. I know, I may be headed there regardless. I want out of limbo but will I necessarily land in a better place. This is what I fear I guess.

Originally Posted By: bustorama
Lose the fear, and you lose the limbo.


I know this to be true, but....

I'm reminded of a time when I was maybe 15 years old. Some buddies of mine and I went for a hike up a canyon above Sierra Madre in California. We came upon this 10 foot deep pool of water fed by a waterfall 35 feet high. To get past the waterfall you had to swim to the base and climb a rope that was hanging down the face of the waterfall. Easy enough! We all did that.

However, getting down was an entirely different proposition. Climbing down was a challenge and the easiest and most fun way was obviously to just jump. All of my buddies made the jump without incident but I couldn't do it. And the longer I thought about it, the harder it was and the more frightened I became. It took me over 30 minutes to finally get up the courage to jump.

This is the same fear I think I am experiencing today. The only difference is when I was 15 I didn't really know any better (i.e. reckless abandon) and yet I was still afraid! I am lot older now and fear has more consequences because it is accompanied by knowledge and experience.

I know I just need to jump.



I know what you are saying...
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 06:53 PM
[quote=sayitaintso]If you do as Busto suggested above are you prepared to deal with her saying no to your requests and accepting the divorce at this time?[/quote

I'm not sure, SAIS. This is where I struggle. Oh, and fully detaching, but I think I am getting better at that!
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 06:56 PM
I'm not sure either 2. But I do think that we're doing awesome and we'll get there eventually!
Posted By: figgeroni Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 07:03 PM
never give an ultimatum you are unprepared to follow thorugh with
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 07:10 PM
Thanks Fig, I needed to hear this as well.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 07:45 PM
Originally Posted By: figgeroni
never give an ultimatum you are unprepared to follow thorugh with


Totally agree.


Starsky
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 07:51 PM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Yes. Lose the fear. That, and do something different from what you've been doing so far, because it's not working.

What do you have to lose by trying? confused

Starsky


Starsky - that ^^^ is what I fear...the unknown or the possibility of seeing things through to D. I know, I may be headed there regardless. I want out of limbo but will I necessarily land in a better place. This is what I fear I guess.

[quote=bustorama]



2tP, I think you're looking at this the wrong way.

It's not a matter of "am I heading toward that (a divorce) regardless?"

Rather, look at it as

"Is the current situation (a marriage with a third person in it, and an unrepentant wife who is disrespecting your marriage and YOU having to live somewhere else other than in your OWN HOME) something you can live with? Is it something you can abide? Does it violate your core integrity in an "I'm sorry, this-is-not-who-I-am" way?

To me, that's the beauty of boundaries, or -- as I like to call them -- "My Boundaries of Personal Integrity." Only YOU know what they are, but they should be a very short list; your "dealbreakers," as it were . . . those things that you, as a person with your values, morals and ethics, simply CANNOT ABIDE.

And this is how it works, in practical application: If you decide that "I will not live in an open marriage," and you state that as a boundary to a cheating spouse, and if that drives them away from you, and toward the other person? Well, then that's THEIR CHOICE, and them cheating -- and staying with me -- wasn't an option for me anyway, based on my own authenticity and values, so what have I lost?

All I've lost in that instance is something that I could not have abided anyway.




Starsky
Posted By: figgeroni Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 07:56 PM
exactly Starsky!!!

awesome
Posted By: Valeska19 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 07:57 PM
^^^ Love this Starsky!
Posted By: jlove Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 08:11 PM

Starsky [/quote]

And this is how it works, in practical application: If you decide that "I will not live in an open marriage," and you state that as a boundary to a cheating spouse, and if that drives them away from you, and toward the other person? Well, then that's THEIR CHOICE, and them cheating -- and staying with me -- wasn't an option for me anyway, based on my own authenticity and values, so what have I lost?

All I've lost in that instance is something that I could not have abided anyway.


Starsky [/quote]

Very well put and I like that perspective!!!
Posted By: dbmod Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/11/12 11:59 PM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
Originally Posted By: sayitaintso
If you do as Busto suggested above are you prepared to deal with her saying no to your requests and accepting the divorce at this time?


I'm not sure, SAIS. This is where I struggle. Oh, and fully detaching, but I think I am getting better at that!



If you aren't, then it isn't the right advice for you.

Begin as if you were brand new...


FIRST--set your relationship goals.
THEN assess your situation compared to your goals.

You are NOT too far to start over at the beginning.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 02:36 AM
Hi 2thepoint.

Interesting.

I spent too many years, and way too many threads here not to relate to you.

And, you are NOT living.

You are existing.

I would be mortified if I had to start OVER after, HOW many threads of work ?!?!?

Lose the fear. Lead. Pave the way to a new future with OR without your wife.

It's amazing what happens when you live for you , and not them.

It's not selfish. It's propelling yourself out if limbo.
Posted By: ces67 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 12:08 PM
2 - From one nice guy to another... What do you want to do differently?

We are in the same limbo and we both want to move forward and we both want it to be in a direction that will heal our Ms.

No real advice to offer, just support that you're not alone in this struggle. You've grown a lot through all this. But as people our need to grow never stops. What do you want for yourself that you can control?

Good luck! I'm still praying about that job for you as well. Hate the waiting part.....
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 02:22 PM
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Yes. Lose the fear. That, and do something different from what you've been doing so far, because it's not working.

What do you have to lose by trying? confused

Starsky


Starsky - that ^^^ is what I fear...the unknown or the possibility of seeing things through to D. I know, I may be headed there regardless. I want out of limbo but will I necessarily land in a better place. This is what I fear I guess.


2tP, I think you're looking at this the wrong way.

It's not a matter of "am I heading toward that (a divorce) regardless?"

Rather, look at it as

"Is the current situation (a marriage with a third person in it, and an unrepentant wife who is disrespecting your marriage and YOU having to live somewhere else other than in your OWN HOME) something you can live with? Is it something you can abide? Does it violate your core integrity in an "I'm sorry, this-is-not-who-I-am" way?

To me, that's the beauty of boundaries, or -- as I like to call them -- "My Boundaries of Personal Integrity." Only YOU know what they are, but they should be a very short list; your "dealbreakers," as it were . . . those things that you, as a person with your values, morals and ethics, simply CANNOT ABIDE.

And this is how it works, in practical application: If you decide that "I will not live in an open marriage," and you state that as a boundary to a cheating spouse, and if that drives them away from you, and toward the other person? Well, then that's THEIR CHOICE, and them cheating -- and staying with me -- wasn't an option for me anyway, based on my own authenticity and values, so what have I lost?

All I've lost in that instance is something that I could not have abided anyway.
Starsky


------> "My Boundaries of Personal Integrity." <------

I really like this ^^^! Something for me to remember. Thanks for sharing, Starsky!
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 02:25 PM
Quote:
"And, you are NOT living.

You are existing."


So damn pathetic... and true!

Quote:
"Lose the fear. Lead. Pave the way to a new future with OR without your wife.

It's amazing what happens when you live for you , and not them.

It's not selfish. It's propelling yourself out if limbo."


Working on it...
Posted By: labug Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 02:37 PM
Just don't lose you, 2.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 02:41 PM
2.

Listen. My words come from a place of feeling that pathetic for YEARS!!!

Some of us pay it forward now, because, we are so damn happy that we chose to move on in our way... For ourselves. And, believe it or not, some of us had the choice, in the end, to do it alone, OR w/our prior WAS.

Remember. We are all offering our opinions. A lot of them will feel uncomfortable. Looking back, those are the ones I should have acted on immediately!
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 02:45 PM
I was feeling pretty sh!tty late yesterday/evening. Had a brief interaction with W yesterday regarding tax matters, She gets really testy with me for no apparent reason. So I walk out of the room and then leave altogether.

My business partner has been annoying the crap out of me lately and after a 30 minute conversation, I was ready to go jump off a cliff....except there are no cliffs around here.

Maybe I should go take out the trash again. There is something oddly therapeutic about that activity. wink

Late in the evening, W sends me a text: "I apologize. I'm a bitch." I did not respond.

Roommate comes home late, sees that I am in a dark mood asks whats up, I unload then he says lets go drink some beer and play some pool. It's great to have friends!
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 03:19 PM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint


Late in the evening, W sends me a text: "I apologize. I'm a bitch." I did not respond.



Better: "Apology accepted," and maybe a "This is incredibly difficult on all of us" if you want. But try to see if you can begin to get off the wild passive-aggressive swings, and get to a more evenhanded communication style and even DBing strategy with your wife.


Starsky
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 04:27 PM
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint


Late in the evening, W sends me a text: "I apologize. I'm a bitch." I did not respond.



Better: "Apology accepted," and maybe a "This is incredibly difficult on all of us" if you want. But try to see if you can begin to get off the wild passive-aggressive swings, and get to a more evenhanded communication style and even DBing strategy with your wife.


Starsky


Good idea for next time. Funny, but I've been making similar efforts when we have had others disturbances. Taking ownership for when I'm at fault and her doing the same. And it seemed to have been working. She has had reason to apologize a half dozen times in the past month. I think her heart med is probably part of the problem. It is just getting very tiring.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 04:45 PM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
Funny, but I've been making similar efforts when we have had others disturbances. Taking ownership for when I'm at fault and her doing the same. And it seemed to have been working. She has had reason to apologize a half dozen times in the past month. I think her heart med is probably part of the problem. It is just getting very tiring.


See any irony in that ^^^^

Cause, if you meant that you are letting her own her own things....

Then

Quote:
I think her heart med is probably part of the problem.


That ^^^ shouldn't exist...


jus sayin
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 04:50 PM
I'm not following, Mach.....
Posted By: Mach1 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 05:27 PM
Maybe I mis-read what you were saying...

What I interpreted was , that you were letting her own her faults, while you were owning yours.

Then you were making excuses for her behavior....
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 05:36 PM
Oh. Well maybe you are right. Yes, letting her own her faults and me mine. But I think she is extra bitchy because of the meds she is taking. Doesn't excuse the behavior necessarily but may be a contributing factor.

But I get your point. Recently I was posting elsewhere and was annoyed by something someone had said. So in response I was standing my ground, which is good. But then I went on and said "sorry if I'm coming across as annoyed". That's not good!!!!! It completely invalidates my right to my own opinion.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 05:57 PM
I get what you are saying...

I just want you to see it, in a way that may have not seen it before.

If you are always there to pick her up, then she will never have to find her own way.

And also to think about how that might affect what YOU want in the future. It would certainly affect the plan that you are thinking about.

It's a razorblade that you have to walk...that line between being an asss and having a sack full of tact. And I think that is what Starsky was pointing out earlier to you, that you have to know the difference.

For me, it came down to validating while laying out personal boundaries. Choosing your words carefully, and relaying exactly what you want to say.

What Starsky said...."Apology accepted" is perfectly placed on that line. It doesn't try to change how she feels, and it allows her to own her words and actions. It also lets you acknowledge her text, without trying to make something out of it, that isn't there.



This is one of the hardest things to learn, and until you see it, you won't see it (duh !!! )

After you see it, you can't, not see it anymore.


I hope that this makes sense.....
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 06:01 PM
Yep! Makes perfect sense!
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/12/12 06:02 PM
It does to me!! cool

Well stated, Mach.
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/14/12 06:31 AM
Just a quick post to brag on S13 whose soccer team won their 4 straight game of the season, 3 of which have been shut outs! Although my son didn't score any goals, he did serve as the official play maker for both goals scored. Meaning he had the guts while someone else got the glory! I'm still proud of him and his unselfish manner of play!

Tonight, I went with my roommate to a charity event at a local restaurant/bar and girl grabbed my butt. How's that for a GAL? wink
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/14/12 01:00 PM
Where's the "Like" button??? whistle
Posted By: adinva Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/14/12 03:04 PM
^^ like
Posted By: ces67 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/14/12 03:12 PM
you dog, you....
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/15/12 08:06 PM
From the "believe none of what they say and only half of what they do" file:

In the week before Easter my W did/said/promised the following:

* W suggested we take the boys to a hockey game. It was too late to get the tickets so we made a rain check for a different day. The rain check ended up being for her, S10 and his friend for this past Friday.

* W suggested we do something as a family on Easter Sunday, (her preference was to go to a water park or something like that. Late in the day we ended up at a movie with just one of my sons.

* I had informed my W that I would be watching a friends children while they attend a wedding this past Saturday. W said she would help because she thought me managing 3 kids would be a challenge. She told me late yesterday afternoon that she would call and come by later. No call and no show.

Making a mental note, most of what the WAS says is BS.
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/16/12 01:56 AM
Originally Posted By: bustorama
There are a couple of quick paths out of limboville when you lose the fear and are ready.

One is that you walk away from it yourself while YOU drop the BOMB on HER (flip the sitch), holding onto your NUTS about what you need from a W in a marriage.

"W, this separation situation isn't working for me anymore. I enjoy spending time with you when we are together, but I want more [commitment, love, time together, investment in our M, whatever] from my W than you are giving me. I'm not ok with going on like this anymore, so I will file for D. Can you please pass on your attorney's name to me? We can be good co-parents to our S together and maybe even friends after things settle down."

The other is you walk back into the fray, also holding on to your NUTS about what is acceptable behavior to you from your W, while pulling the RobX I mentioned to you before.

"W, I have decided to move back into the family home and master bedroom. This separation situation isn't working for me anymore. I am not ok with being in a M where we aren't [connecting, commmited to each other, loving, spending time together, investing in our M, whatever] or with being outside my family home. I am also not ok with sharing my W another M while she tests the waters. If you want to carry on with him, then it is time that you move out of the family home. I will help you pack your things if that is what you want."

(and if she says she wants to stay and work on things with you, you lay out the conditions that are essential to you to feel safe moving forward with her [transparency at minimum, probably also M therapist]. If she's not ok with them, then say, sorry, W, that doesn't work for me given the situation.

Lose the fear, and you lose the limbo.


OK Busto walk me through this... I agree that both of the scenarios you lay out above will get me out of limbo. There is no doubt about that! You've been following my sitch since almost the beginning, where do you see this going if I adopt one of these two strategies? Is there another strategy that I should consider?
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/16/12 03:04 AM
IMHO, limbo is simply a state of mind - it's all in your head.
Look at me. I'm divorced, co-parenting and co-habitating. At times I still feel like I'm in limbo, but then I get control of my feelings. I tell myself what I'm doing is for my children, and that this will all end eventually. XW may or may not ever come out of her crisis.

It hasn't been a year since the D. And I haven't felt any inclination to meet other women. Maybe I'll finally get around to it, and the limbo will be over. But like crazyville said in another area, that will only diminish XW in my mind. I don't want that you. What'll probably happen is she'll be surprised, because I'm not the type. And friends will say to her, "He's a great guy; you didn't expect someone to snatch him up?" But I digress.

The point is, limbo is in your head. There are fractured R's all over this forum. Some still sleep togethe;, some are like room mates; some are married but seperated, and some like me are divorced with children. It could be argued, you will never be out of limbo. Or you could just step out of it tomorrow. You decide.

Hugs
Pic
Posted By: InAPickle Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/16/12 11:40 AM
"I don't want that you" ???!!!
WHOOPS.
Meant to say, "I don't want that YET."
(damn keyboard)
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/16/12 11:58 AM
IMHO the 2nd scenerio of you moving back in would not work. I think it will force your W to stand her ground even firmer. The first example could work but you have to have such balls. Which I for one do not have.
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/16/12 01:31 PM
[/quote]

OK Busto walk me through this... I agree that both of the scenarios you lay out above will get me out of limbo. There is no doubt about that! You've been following my sitch since almost the beginning, where do you see this going if I adopt one of these two strategies? Is there another strategy that I should consider? [/quote]

Where do u see this going 2? Are you ok w/ any outcome? No expectations right?
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/16/12 02:13 PM
I'm just tired, and sad, and lonely, and feeling hopeless...
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/16/12 02:21 PM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
I'm just tired, and sad, and lonely, and feeling hopeless...


I totally feel you here ^^^^^ but don't think you should make any decisions from this frame of mind.

-@@-
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/16/12 03:26 PM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
Is there another strategy that I should consider?


What strategy are you wanting, 2tp?

One that gets your W back...?

Or one that gets you out of limbo?

Because the first reason needs to be struck from the agenda...

The second one...?

Does NOT consider your W in the equation...

Staying focused on YOU... living an authentic life... with no expectations of the future...
Posted By: antlers Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/16/12 08:10 PM
Hey 2tp. I've been out for awhile...just popped in to say 'hi' and see how you're doing? I hope you're staying as strong as you can under these difficult circumstances. And I hope you're asking for, and getting, some good guidance on the decisions you're making and on the communication you're expressing to her. Best wishes buddy.



ps - I really appreciate the help you've given me, especially with the communication I've had with her.
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/19/12 05:58 AM
Antlers - thanks for checking in. I'm doing ok, all things considered. I'm always getting god advice and support from the members, you included!

KD - I hear what you are saying. I'm just growing weary. Wish moving out of limbo meant moving towards a R but I know that that has to come in its own time.

=============================

Went with W to see her Cardiologist the other day, (first real checkup since her release from the hospital). They had completed an echocardiogram and some blood work last week so we were getting updates on the results.

The Dr. said her heart EF is at 45% (normal is between 55% - 70 something) it had been in the low 20's at one point when she was in the hospital. He said she is progressing very nicely and that the leaking heart valve seems to have healed itself. He has taken her off the portable defib device and has encouraged her to exercise in order to continue to strengthen her heart. He upped her meds as well in order to facilitate the healing.

I asked the Dr. about her ability to handle stress (you know EA/A while married, possible D wink ) he said that she should be fine baring any unexpected bad news, like a death in the family, car accident, stuff like that.

All in all, she is doing very well and it would appear she is completely out of the woods after nearly succumbing to heart failure just 2 months ago.

After the Dr. appointment, we went to lunch and chatted about things for an hour or so. Nothing heavy, just stuff I'm up to. She offered advice/perspective on some things. She seemed interested.

Oddly, she copied me on an email to her family updating them on her Dr. visit and her improving condition. She did not mention that I took her to the Dr appointment or that I was even there.

I'll be making an appointment to speak with a lawyer within the next week. I'm not filing, just gathering information. If I'm going to do something to move me out of limbo, I need to be prepared for the worst...
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/19/12 06:19 AM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
I'll be making an appointment to speak with a lawyer within the next week. I'm not filing, just gathering information. If I'm going to do something to move me out of limbo, I need to be prepared for the worst...


AWESOME!

cool
Posted By: ces67 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/19/12 12:29 PM
I'm just growing weary. Wish moving out of limbo meant moving towards a R but I know that that has to come in its own time

Right there with you, my friend...=@@= But WE will move forward regardless!
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/19/12 01:13 PM
That makes 3 of us and a boatload of others I'm sure.

Glad she seemed interested at your lunch talk 2 and her including you on the email is another positive imo.

I have been putting off making an appt w/ a lawyer to get some info but it is time for me to do that as well. Don't think I'm necessarily scared of the D because I feel its pretty likely but I know its going to be a hassle and $$$ is also tight.

Best 2!
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/20/12 01:37 AM
Quick post, random stuff....

A couple of irritants occurred today

- W picked up S10 from school, didn't tell me so I wasted a trip to school only to find out he wasn't there.

- At house late this afternoon to pick up S13 for his soccer practice. W keeps herself sequestered to the bedroom most of the day, every day. I over hear her on a call with OM (what else is new) and she apparently has been researching new apartments for OM in the city where he lives. She spends more time solving his problems than focusing on our family. So incredibly annoying!

=======================

Been wondering about the concept I've seen bandied about here regarding the notion that mothers are attracted to their husbands who demonstrate a real connection to the children. I think this is true when the children are very small (under 10 years). But I think this diminishes considerably as the kids get older and become more independent.

I'm also curious about older children and custody arrangements. You hear all the time about the battles between waring spouses who are divorcing and using children and leverage. Seems to me that that is less likely the older the children are.

Any thoughts on this?
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/20/12 01:51 AM
Its hard for me to believe a decent man would leave his family as mine did, but I dont know how a woman could leave the father of her children unless he was abusive. I know several D woman from work, one in particular who should be President of WAS club and I dont get, I cant imagine why they would choose to raise their children without an intact family. To me it is anti-mother.

My h could be very aggrevating at times but I was incredibly moved by his closest to our D especially our D3. I dont think turned on is the right word but very physically connected.

I definitely see myself trying to use my Ds to bring my H home even though I know its wrong. I cant for the life of me understand why a WAS wouldnt come home from their children.

The only explaination for your W behavior is that she has lost her mind.
Posted By: ces67 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/20/12 03:09 AM
Hey 2'. Very irrItating when the WAS does shoe respect by communicatung about kid coordination. Had my own experience with that but wil post on my own thread.

No idea if age of the kids makes a difference or not. I know for my W, I would guess she will always stay connected to them. She is a very engaged mom but I often get the sense that she has a need for them in a dependent sort of way. It probably depends on the person and how far gone they are in their own little world. RickDB could probably speak to this from his sitch.

How incredibly irritating to have to hear your W talking with OM.

How are your boys doing these days?
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/20/12 04:28 AM
The boys seem fine. I'm concerned that they are oblivious to our sitch. Maybe that is selfish thinking on my part because I sometimes feel like if they were acting out some, my W might be compelled to get her act together.

On the other hand, if they are oblivious, perhaps that is a good thing as it demonstrates that we are doing a good job keeping our emotions in check and shielding them from what might otherwise be a traumatic time in their lives.
Posted By: purgatory Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/20/12 10:47 AM
2TP- I can hear your frustrations coming across the screen, so sorry. Did she give any explanation why she communicate that she was picking up s10 from school? Wasn't this an arrangement that y'all have had in place for a while now, wonder what caused her to change it?

I'm sure your boys sense something is off in their world, kids are a lot more perceptive than we realize. But I think ot's wonderful that you've managed to keep things on an even keel enough for them that they *arent* acting out at shook or home, that's a testament to your daddy skills! Rickb's youngest is almost the same age as your oldest- and he's very much aware of the sitch in his home... Maybe pick Rick's brain about ways to approach it with your kids (of you feel the need to do so one day.)

Hearing her on the phone with OM must just make your blood boil!! Perhaps you should do an underwater appearance in her doorway next time she's on the phone, just to throw her off a little!
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/20/12 01:10 PM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
W keeps herself sequestered to the bedroom most of the day, every day. I over hear her on a call with OM (what else is new) and she apparently has been researching new apartments for OM in the city where he lives. She spends more time solving his problems than focusing on our family. So incredibly annoying!

=======================


Unacceptable. This is simple (not easy, but simple) boundary enforcement. The FIRST TIME my wife tried that crap, I simply said "I certainly hope that's not your boyfriend that you're talking to in our marital home; that would be INCREDIBLY disrespectful." And then I stood there, staring at her, and she ended the call.

She never called him again from inside our home that I know of. She'd even pace outside in the yard, IN THE RAIN sometimes, yakking on her cellphone, but she wouldn't do it in the house, as two of my boundaries were "no phone calls to/from OM in our home," and "no texting OM in front of the kids."

Someone once said that "we teach people how to treat us." I think that's about right.


Starsky
Posted By: RoRoinMD Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/20/12 01:50 PM
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
W keeps herself sequestered to the bedroom most of the day, every day. I over hear her on a call with OM (what else is new) and she apparently has been researching new apartments for OM in the city where he lives. She spends more time solving his problems than focusing on our family. So incredibly annoying!

=======================


Unacceptable. This is simple (not easy, but simple) boundary enforcement. The FIRST TIME my wife tried that crap, I simply said "I certainly hope that's not your boyfriend that you're talking to in our marital home; that would be INCREDIBLY disrespectful." And then I stood there, staring at her, and she ended the call.

She never called him again from inside our home that I know of. She'd even pace outside in the yard, IN THE RAIN sometimes, yakking on her cellphone, but she wouldn't do it in the house, as two of my boundaries were "no phone calls to/from OM in our home," and "no texting OM in front of the kids."

Someone once said that "we teach people how to treat us." I think that's about right.


Starsky


I gotta agree with Starsky on this one. Some kind of boundary needs to be set up. My H may be an idiot, but he knows better than to let me hear him talking to OW. LOL I mentioned the texting in front of me last week (not sure if it was to OW or not, but probably was) and that it was disrespectful. He hasn't done it since that I know of. Some things you just have to say no to.
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/20/12 03:19 PM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
I sometimes feel like if they were acting out some, my W might be compelled to get her act together.


I haven't found this to be true at all. My w's relationship w/ my s15 has really deteriorated (actually it has w/ all 3) but he speaks up about it and is definitely hurt. He was excited to tell her about something yesterday and he started to talk and said something and my w cut him off w/ a very rude comment. He then said something he shouldn't have back to her and went to his room.

I chose to not say anything but it's really upsetting to me. And it doesn't seem to bring her any closer. She is in her own world.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/20/12 04:57 PM
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
W keeps herself sequestered to the bedroom most of the day, every day. I over hear her on a call with OM (what else is new) and she apparently has been researching new apartments for OM in the city where he lives. She spends more time solving his problems than focusing on our family. So incredibly annoying!

=======================


Unacceptable. This is simple (not easy, but simple) boundary enforcement. The FIRST TIME my wife tried that crap, I simply said "I certainly hope that's not your boyfriend that you're talking to in our marital home; that would be INCREDIBLY disrespectful." And then I stood there, staring at her, and she ended the call.

She never called him again from inside our home that I know of. She'd even pace outside in the yard, IN THE RAIN sometimes, yakking on her cellphone, but she wouldn't do it in the house, as two of my boundaries were "no phone calls to/from OM in our home," and "no texting OM in front of the kids."

Someone once said that "we teach people how to treat us." I think that's about right.


Starsky


I had this same boundary. And I enforced it.
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/20/12 05:06 PM
It is a good boundary, to be sure. But it is unenforceable as long as I am not living at the house. It's like telling the president to stop running up trillion dollar deficits. He' can't help himself and he is going to ignore me and so is my W.

If I move back into the house, then I can see this being a boundary that can be enforced. Until then, not so much.
Posted By: Crazyville Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/20/12 05:36 PM
Quote:
I'm also curious about older children and custody arrangements. You hear all the time about the battles between waring spouses who are divorcing and using children as leverage. Seems to me that that is less likely the older the children are.
Yes, at least in our case with H's first W, it got less problematic as the kids got older. (BTW, H was already D'd before me, exW's choice; I was never the OW. Just thought that was important to clarify in my sitch..) Mostly, because they don't need you as much for driving and such. On the other hand, if the ex is a permissive parent and you're trying not to be, it has the potential of drawing them away because of the lack of parental boundaries in the other home. Honestly, I know w-a-y too much about this to have anything nice to say about it, but I'll answer any Q's you'd like.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/20/12 06:10 PM
2tp I was thinking more along the lines if she does it infront of you or the children. As I know your not in your home.
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/20/12 06:17 PM
OK, that makes more sense and is certainly more doable. There was an incident I posted about a few weeks back where W was on the phone for 1 hour of a 2 hour drive and I think she may have been on the phone with OM then. That is when I could have and should have set the boundary and enforced it. I will make this a priority for my future interactions with my WAS.
Posted By: RoRoinMD Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/20/12 06:21 PM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
OK, that makes more sense and is certainly more doable. There was an incident I posted about a few weeks back where W was on the phone for 1 hour of a 2 hour drive and I think she may have been on the phone with OM then. That is when I could have and should have set the boundary and enforced it. I will make this a priority for my future interactions with my WAS.


Good for you! I can only imagine how I would feel. (If she doesn't respect your boundary, I can always call or text you so she sees how it feels. LOL j/k)
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/21/12 01:30 AM
Originally Posted By: Crazyville
Quote:
I'm also curious about older children and custody arrangements. You hear all the time about the battles between waring spouses who are divorcing and using children as leverage. Seems to me that that is less likely the older the children are.
Yes, at least in our case with H's first W, it got less problematic as the kids got older. (BTW, H was already D'd before me, exW's choice; I was never the OW. Just thought that was important to clarify in my sitch..) Mostly, because they don't need you as much for driving and such. On the other hand, if the ex is a permissive parent and you're trying not to be, it has the potential of drawing them away because of the lack of parental boundaries in the other home. Honestly, I know w-a-y too much about this to have anything nice to say about it, but I'll answer any Q's you'd like.


I was just observing that the kids really don't seemed to be phased by the sitch. Maybe because I see them just about every day, they don't feel it as much as other children from broken homes might.

In conversations I have with them they never bring up our separation. When I ask them how they are doing in relation to that (and I do try to be careful in how I broach the subject) they don't really have much to say. It's not like they are avoiding talking about it, they just don't have much to say.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/21/12 01:58 AM
You are being a awesome amazing Dad that is why your kids are so happy and okay.

For the past 2 weeks I have been enforcing more a schedule with my H. So there is no just stopping by any more. So far this is working much better for me and I think(?) bringing him closer. He now has to ask me for things that I used to give for free so he is atleast acknowledging that its a favor.

I will let you know how it goes. It might be something you consider. Right now your wife is having the best of both worlds.
Posted By: labug Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/21/12 01:45 PM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
It is a good boundary, to be sure. But it is unenforceable as long as I am not living at the house.


Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

She could also come right back with a boundary for you. I believe wholeheartedly in boundary setting but you have to be aware of the intended and unintended consequences.

Boundaries are to protect you, not to punish another, a good rubric to use when setting a boundary.

2,I know you're having a difficult time finding your next step. When it's time to take that next step you'll know it's right. The period of indecision is so uncomfortable that we just want to make it stop. So we do something, even if it's wrong for us.

"See there, I'm a person of action!" (oh sh!t, I didn't see that coming)

I have regretted decisions made that weren't right for me but I've never regretted taking the time to cometo the right decision for me.

(This does NOT mean you worry and overanalyze and try to think of every possible outcome. This means accept what is, live your life and the answer will come.)

Many of us are so afraid to just let things be and wait for answers because we've been told all our lives to do this, do that, now do this, be like that guy over there, be more like your brother, be someone you're not.

Sometimes we like that approach because if things don't turn out well we can blame it on someone else.;/

And there are moments in the wake of devastating events, we do need others to provide that next step...I hurt so much I can't see, just tell me where to put my foot.

Only you know where you are in that continuum.

There is no one way to do this. I work everyday with families in the midst of a life-changing event and in the 30+ years I've been doing this, I've never seen it done the same way twice. Yes, there are universalities but everyone does it just a bit differently. It's my job to provide safe boundaries, not to tell them how to do it. Do they struggle? Sometimes mightily! But new neural pathways are formed and each thing they learn through the trial and error of the process provides them with a wisdom which they will carry with them always. They've also gained confidence to be able to solve the next problem (and there's always a 'next problem').

2, what you do next is your decision.

Stop working so hard at getting there.

The sky is not falling.
Posted By: workinghardguy Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/22/12 01:22 AM
2TP... I know it's hard, but take life as it comes, on its own terms. I feel for you bud, I know what it's like. Sort of feel stuck or like it's Groundhog Day (the movie, not the day). But LA is right... there always repecussions, good and bad, for things we do.

Take the time... it's the one thing you have plenty of. The last few days (as my W has gotten refocused on the D again) I've felt that creeping panic setting back in. Feel like I'm racing against the shot clock but can't see how much time is left. It's like I'm back six months ago.

But deep breaths and long pauses... there's lots of time. More than we realize. This was all going to be done and sewn up in... well, for me at least we're now going on seven months since "she is going to file".

Time is our greatest ally. Don't short it... just roll with it.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/22/12 12:08 PM
Originally Posted By: chatterbug
2tp I was thinking more along the lines if she does it infront of you or the children. As I know your not in your home.


Yes, this is what I meant.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/22/12 12:13 PM
Originally Posted By: labug
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
It is a good boundary, to be sure. But it is unenforceable as long as I am not living at the house.


Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

She could also come right back with a boundary for you.




Certainly. And if she's serious about it, and if I believe she would enforce whatever the stated consequences were, then I'd have a choice to make as to whether or not I could abide her boundary, or if I'd rather choose to live with her consequences. That's how it works.

This should have absolutely ZERO to do with what 2tP decides to do with THIS particular boundary.
Boundaries shouldn't be laundry lists of tit-for-tat "rules" that one uses to try to control other people's behavior. They should be one's very SHORT list of core value "dealbreakers" -- what I call your "Boundaries of Personal Integrity." Nothing should deter you from learning to lovingly lay them, and then strongly and consistency enforce them, in your life.


Starsky
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/22/12 12:18 PM
Originally Posted By: labug
[quote=2thepoint]

Boundaries are to protect you, not to punish another, a good rubric to use when setting a boundary.


Exactly -- AGREE -- and looked at another way, with the example of the "no phone calls or texts to OM in front of me," I would say that this is either a REAL core boundary with 2tP (it really DOES violate his own integrity about who he is,a nd really IS a dealbreaker with him to allow himself to be treated that way) . . .

or it's not.

If it really doesn't bother him, then he should say nothing (altho he should still know that his wife is almost certainly losing respect for him in allowing it, and since women very closely tie their feelings of respect for a man with their ability to LOVE a man, she's therefore losing LOVE for him).

It's like secondhand smoke, or a racist joke. If it really does bother you, you should lovingly but firmly say "not around me," and mean it. If it doesn't, then you'd merely be trying to control the other person's behavior to make an ultimatum about it.

Make sense??


Starsky
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/22/12 01:14 PM
Good example Starsky. I know I have never set boundaries with anyone. That is why its taken me so long to slowly begin to set boundaries with my H.
Posted By: labug Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/22/12 01:49 PM
This should have absolutely ZERO to do with what 2tP decides to do with THIS particular boundary.

Speaking in generalities, I think this is a correct statement.

In this specific instance, I think 2 can make a request but I'm not sure he can set an enforceable boundary, even tho she might be trampling a core value. A boundary has several parts: I feel _______when you_________. If you continue I will________

2, how would you complete the sentence? W when you talk on the phone to OM in my presence I feel _______________if you continue to talk on the phone with OM in my presence, I will______________.

And 2, before doing anything, I would be certain that she is talking to OM in your presence. That could certainly blow up in your face.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/22/12 03:01 PM
I'll let 2tP respond, and it's certainly HIS boundary to learn how to lay out and enforce. But to me, the only difference between a "boundary" and a "request" is the seriousness with which I communicate it and the prior consistency of my enforcement of previous boundaries.

I believe in the truism "We teach people how to treat us."


Starsky
Posted By: chatterbug Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/22/12 04:13 PM
Originally Posted By: Starsky309


I believe in the truism "We teach people how to treat us."


Starsky


Very true Starsky.

Very true.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/22/12 05:48 PM
Originally Posted By: chatterbug
Originally Posted By: Starsky309


I believe in the truism "We teach people how to treat us."


Starsky


Very true Starsky.

Very true.



Well, sure -- that's why they call it a "truism." grin
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/24/12 05:46 PM
Originally Posted By: labug
2, how would you complete the sentence? W when you talk on the phone to OM in my presence I feel __angry and betrayed__if you continue to talk on the phone with OM in my presence, I will______________. I ask that you not do so it when I am around or in the presence of our children.


I don't think it will be necessary to state "if you don't do X I'm going to do Y." It would simply be a request and one that I believe she would comply with if put on the spot. And besides, I would be in no position to enforce this particular boundary.

=====================

I've been feeling anger and resentment creeping into my thinking in recent days. It is becoming increasingly obvious that this sitch and everything associated with it is starting to take its toll on my emotional state of mind. My C and my DB coach have both commented that I have been placing all of my energy on trying to fix my R, protect the kids, care for my formerly ailing WAS and everything else that has been going on in my life for the past 7 months.

I guess it is time to place my focus elsewhere.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/24/12 07:24 PM
Take a break then and go on a short vacation. Just a weekend away. Focus upon yourself.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/24/12 08:08 PM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint

I've been feeling anger and resentment creeping into my thinking in recent days. It is becoming increasingly obvious that this sitch and everything associated with it is starting to take its toll on my emotional state of mind. My C and my DB coach have both commented that I have been placing all of my energy on trying to fix my R, protect the kids, care for my formerly ailing WAS and everything else that has been going on in my life for the past 7 months.

I guess it is time to place my focus elsewhere.



1. God (if you're so inclined)

2. Your kids

3. Yourself

4. Your other family (parents, siblings) and friends



You won't go wrong with that.


Starsky
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/24/12 10:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint

I've been feeling anger and resentment creeping into my thinking in recent days. It is becoming increasingly obvious that this sitch and everything associated with it is starting to take its toll on my emotional state of mind. My C and my DB coach have both commented that I have been placing all of my energy on trying to fix my R, protect the kids, care for my formerly ailing WAS and everything else that has been going on in my life for the past 7 months.

I guess it is time to place my focus elsewhere.



1. God (if you're so inclined)

2. Your kids

3. Yourself

4. Your other family (parents, siblings) and friends



You won't go wrong with that.


Starsky


Good point Starsky. And now that you mention it, the Pastor in my church has been talking for the past 2 weeks about the Hebrew word "chazown" which is defined as a dream, revelation or vision. The focus has been on "vision" and he explains that where there is no vision or purpose, the people perish.

This is where I feel I am at right now. I have to get my vision and purpose buttoned down or it may be the death of me.
Posted By: labug Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/25/12 01:05 PM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
Originally Posted By: labug
2, how would you complete the sentence? W when you talk on the phone to OM in my presence I feel __angry and betrayed__if you continue to talk on the phone with OM in my presence, I will______________. I ask that you not do so it when I am around or in the presence of our children.


I don't think it will be necessary to state "if you don't do X I'm going to do Y." It would simply be a request and one that I believe she would comply with if put on the spot. And besides, I would be in no position to enforce this particular boundary.



That was my thought, too.

Quote:
It would simply be a request and one that I believe she would comply with if put on the spot.


Are you going to put her on the spot?
Posted By: labug Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/25/12 01:09 PM
About the anger and resentment, have you read The Solo Partner? That book really rang a bell for me on how we let anger control us.

I also found some helpful stuff at Steve Stosny's (How to Improve Your Marriage...) website.
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/25/12 01:22 PM
Went to the grocery store this morning to pick up a few items and noticed my W's C/T in line at the check out counter. A flood of anxiety washed over me and I found myself keeping busy unloading my cart and trying to avoid eye contact.

Why?

I still feel the sting of the ambush I experienced back in late October/Early November when W asked me to join her with her C, ostensibly to discuss our M but in reality it was to demonstrate for her C that she had the courage to tell me she was DONE! Any respect that I had for the C was completely lost that day.

=========================

LaBug - No, I don't think I will put her on the spot unless and until it happens again. Then I will say something. No sense in shaking the hornets nest until it is necessary.

I've read some of the How to Improve Your Marriage but did not finish the book. I'll take a look at it again and also check out the web site.
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/25/12 01:49 PM
I think I would of felt the same way 2. (Seeing the C/T)

Just these past few days I've been thinking about when I run into mutual friends of w and I. What do they think of me? Has my w told them something untrue about me? etc..

When I notice these thoughts I pull myself back because:

1- I'm not letting anyone define me but myself. I know my own truth!
2- I have no control over what she tells people or what people think.

Its something I've worked very hard on over the past year as I used to be much more worried about what people thought of me.

But I still have anxiety from time to time when I run into some situations similar to what you described.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/26/12 01:15 AM
@sayitaintso

Yea I struggled with that as well. Some mutual friends I just cut the cord. Some I wanted to keep intouch with so I made the effort. If they were her friends from before I just let them go. But when I see them. I say hi. Then I talk about my GAL and ask about theirs. I ended up moving 1200 miles so.... its not so much an issue now.... laugh Just being honest.....


P.S. 2thepoint. Its not a hornets nest.... Your boundary..... Gotta stop thinking that way and train your brain to let go of the fear.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/27/12 03:03 AM
I totally understand how you feel. There are some auxillerary people that I hate so much more then my H just because they have supported him. I have much more forgiveness and understanding for my H who I believe is sick rather than "respectable" people who should know better.

I know that we shoudnt have these harsh feelings for anyone and that they are more of a reflection of the things we need to work on within ourselves but boy do they p!ssed me off.

Regarding your earlier post. It is critical that you take better care of yourself. You can find mediatations and yoga videos for free on youtube, its a nice way to start the day. Set a goal for yourself. Get out there and workout more. Make it you obsession. Take your mind off of her and solving this crisis as much as you can. (I know I know, its impossible... just keep doing your best)
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/30/12 04:27 PM
Latest update:

Not a lot to report, just some minor observations and updates on GAL, family interactions, etc.

Observations:
- W asked the boys to sign a birthday card for her friend from when she was little. I noticed she had included my name on the card as well. Thought that was interesting...

- The book I gave my wife a few months back, "A Year by the Sea - Thoughts of an Unfinished Woman" which sat on the staircase banister since the day I gave it to her, is now in her bedroom on the nightstand. Hmmm...

- W is trying to do better at keeping up with the house, especially since I stopped enabling her by "taking out the trash" and other household chores that were creating tension because of her feelings of inadequacy.

- S10 had a sleep over Saturday night and W made them scrambled eggs and toast for breakfast which is a significant departure from the bowl of cereal she would typically provide.

GAL/Family Interactions:
- S13 wrapped up his winning soccer season on Saturday. His team has finished the season 6-0 with 4 shutouts. Now they are off to the play-offs and possibly state championships later n May. I'm so proud of him and his team! W mentioned her disappointment about having to miss the play-offs due to conflict with S10's baseball game occurring at the same time. Maybe I'll surprise her and she can go to the play-off's...that would be a huge, sacrificial 180 for me since I hate to miss the soccer matches. Hmmm, I'll have to think about that one.

- S10 continues to amaze me. His baseball team won their game on Saturday and so he was in a great mood. He also cracks me up sometimes. Recently he made the following statement: "my awesomeness comes naturally. It's a gift!" Such a funny kid!

- S10 spent the night at my place Friday after hanging with me most of the afternoon and going to dinner with me, my roommate and his son. We stayed up late watching movies and eating popcorn.

- Since S10 had a sleepover Saturday night, his friend joined us for church services on Sunday. Members of the congregation must be wondering whats up with me. I never go with my W but always seem to attend services with other peoples kids as well as my own. I wonder what they will think if my W someday decided to join us.

Guess that is about it. I'm hoping to hear something this week about the job I interviewed for back in February/March. Holding breath and keeping fingers crossed.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Time to take out the trash - 04/30/12 06:12 PM
2, you are doing awesome. There is an acceptance in your post that you didnt have a few months ago. You accept where you are right now with your family. You would like it to be something else but you are enjoying where you are right now. You appreciate what you have and are not focused on what you dont have. Its very attractive reading your post and not whinning and annoying like we LBS sometimes are.

I do not think you should do the sacrificial 180. Having followed your post for months now, your W moves closer to you when you move further from her. If she asks you to trade you should do it but let her make the first move. Thats my take.

You are doing amazing, and dont you love not doing the garbage?
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 05/01/12 12:00 AM
I'm glad you think I'm doing awesome Brooklyn, because sometimes I wonder. Regarding my W moving closer, I sometimes don't see it so I'll just take your word for it. It is glacial in it's movement and almost imperceptible to my eyes so maybe an outsider can see it better than I can. You'll let me know when I've arrived, won't you? wink

=====================

Got disappointing news that after 3 months and 4 interviews, the company I had hoped to work for had a reorganization and consolidation and decided on an internal candidate. So it is back to the drawing board for me. That is 2 jobs in a row for which I was the leading candidate only to have the position filled internally.

Do I have FUTURE DIVORCEE tattooed on my foreheaed or something?!?
Posted By: adinva Re: Time to take out the trash - 05/01/12 12:07 AM
No 2, you have HIGHLY QUALIFIED CANDIDATE on your forehead. It's tough to find a job these days, but you'll keep going and find something great. There is no pattern, there's just one application, and one application, and one...
Posted By: Valeska19 Re: Time to take out the trash - 05/01/12 12:16 AM
Sorry to here about the job 2.

It's become my motto that God knows best..even when it comes to work.

If you didn't get this job, it's because he has something else planned for you...

... and it will be awesome!
Posted By: bustorama Re: Time to take out the trash - 05/01/12 04:21 PM
Sorry about the jobs, 2tp. Doesn't reflect on you, but rather our current economy. BTW, note how your attributions of not getting the job may affect how you feel about it (i.e., is it because of something permanent and stable about you vs. something situational/temporary and external to you).

What's "day in the life" of 2tp like these days?

What are your current boundaries and enforcements with W?

Have you read a book called Hold on to your NUTs? It gets at this idea that Starsky, I and others have raised re: your core boundaries of integrity -- your non-negotiable unalterable terms of how YOU want to live and how you teach others how you want to be treated.

You are more powerful than you may think. Indeed, you are the ONLY person who controls you. So powerful.
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 05/01/12 11:27 PM
There you are, Busto! Thanks for stopping by.

Originally Posted By: bustorama
BTW, note how your attributions of not getting the job may affect how you feel about it (i.e., is it because of something permanent and stable about you vs. something situational/temporary and external to you).


I'm not sure I know what you mean by this ^^^ but the reason for not getting this job or the last promising prospect had to do with internal business decisions and the employer ultimately deciding to go internal with their hiring. I try not to dwell on the idea that it may have something to do with me or my qualifications, (at least not too much time spent here...).

It does sting though. Almost like the rejection experienced by my W.

Quote:
What's "day in the life" of 2tp like these days?


Just living my life, looking for work, exercising, spending time with the kids, going to church, work on my real estate business/hobby, reading, giving back to the boards. Stuff like that.

Quote:
What are your current boundaries and enforcements with W?


W and I get along fine, these days. Not much to enforce. She has been keeping a low profile with OM. Not even sure there is anything there anymore. Maybe there is, but not my problem right now.

Quote:
Have you read a book called Hold on to your NUTs? It gets at this idea that Starsky, I and others have raised re: your core boundaries of integrity -- your non-negotiable unalterable terms of how YOU want to live and how you teach others how you want to be treated.


No, not yet. I've heard others talk about it. I've read many others. I'll see if I can find this book.

Quote:
You are more powerful than you may think. Indeed, you are the ONLY person who controls you. So powerful.


This is true and important to remember but also easy to loose sight of when you are deep in the muck!
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Time to take out the trash - 05/02/12 01:18 AM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint


Quote:
What are your current boundaries and enforcements with W?


W and I get along fine, these days. Not much to enforce. She has been keeping a low profile with OM. Not even sure there is anything there anymore. Maybe there is, but not my problem right now.





It's "not your problem" is your wife is carrying on with another man?

Really??? shocked confused


Starsky
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Time to take out the trash - 05/02/12 02:23 PM
Sorry about the job 2, keep plugging away, you will find something.

So excited to hear about your boys and their teams and the positive interactions they are experiencing.

I'm rooting for u and them my friend!!
Posted By: ces67 Re: Time to take out the trash - 05/02/12 03:04 PM
Thanks SAIS, I'm slow but I learn! And I also realize that what works today may not work tomorrow (sad truth of life I suppose).

Another 180, I did this morning. W had asked a couple weeks ago if I ever played "Words with Friends". I have not done this but today I signed up and sent her a game invitation. Thought it might be a good way to have fun without the stress of direct interactions.
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: Time to take out the trash - 05/02/12 03:56 PM
Hey CES, did you hijack my thread? wink
Posted By: ces67 Re: Time to take out the trash - 05/02/12 04:04 PM
Yep. how'd I do that???? Totally meant to respond to SAIS on mine. Sorry about that!
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