So, I am going to see a lawyer tomorrow about possibly serving my H with divorce papers. I did not want it to end this way, but I don't think I can deal with all of the deceit and he shows no signs of wanting to make things better.
It is all happening too quickly for me. I just want the H I had four short months ago...or better yet, the H that I had 6 months ago who was talking about kids.
It's hard to throw away 8 years in four short months and then proceed to D when I don't think we both have tried to work on things, but if he's not willing at this point, I see no hope
Hi H&P,
Is this what you want to do? Maybe it is best to see an L tomorrow just to know where you stand.
DB says patience, patience, patience, and even if H isn't willing to do anything at this point, doesn't mean things won't change a bit later on. I suppose you could always give yourself a deadline.
So, besides seeking legal advice, what else are you doing for yourself?
Yankee,
A part of me says yes this is what I want to do because I don't know if I can trust again after a PA and all the deception.
I know I should have patience...but in the 8 weeks of separation things have only become worse and more involved with this OW and she is married too. He says they are supposedly done dating for now, but he never knows what the future holds with them.
Well, besides the legal stuff and splitting our savings and separating everything, I have been hanging out with friends more and family. I have also tried Zumba, but right now even when I'm out with friends and family, I'm still not happy or myself. I just want the pain to go away!
H&P, I definitely understand your pain. You will need to heal the trust issues, which will take time.
the most important is that you do whatever feels most in line with who you are as a person. Use this time to find your values, what you stand for, what you want. Do it on your H's time (if you know what I mean), and so by the time any R comes along, you are ready for the new direction.
It will take time to dissolve the anger and mistrust for sure, just be sure you are moving at your own pace, and not because you want to get out of your pain only. The pain will continue even after the D, and even into a new R (where there may be other trust issues popping up). Your main priority is yourself and your wellbeing, and not to pile up bitterness and anger.
Heal as much as you possibly can in your current R (which clearly will not involve your H), and then you can make some good solid decisions for yourself.
Do as you need to do for youserlf
Light and love
Hello Hoping and Praying,
I don't have much to add, as I am in a similar situation, but I will say this. NO ONE CAN MAKE YOU DO OR SIGN anything!!! My H came like a thief in the night and took all his things while I was gone. I am "faking it until I make it." Each day does get a little better. The pain is there, but it is becoming less intense each day.
Praying for strength for you.
Thanks Yankee!
Yes, as a person with my values, I know that none of his behavior is okay or acceptable, but as a girl, who is a hopeless romantic in so many ways, I can't get over that we weren't meant to be after what we have been through and our "love story."
I know trust issues are going to lurk in any relationship I have because I had them prior to my H because I had a walk away father, who cheated on my mom many times. However, with my H, I trusted him almost instantly and I never trusted a guy before him. He made me feel safe and loved and I had not a worry in the world about us! And for 8 years had no reason to worry...until the past year! Then, my trust issues began with him.
I know pain will still be here after the D and it will all be a long process. I just wish there was a magic pill..haha!
April,
Good Point! Yes, I am going to get the papers ready and just get information, so I know what my rights are. We have already divided our money and he's quitdeeding the house to me tomorrow, so pretty much I'm going to see how to serve him with papers, when I'm ready to!
It all still stinks no matter what. I don't understand the deception in people and the lack of strength and perseverance of WAS.
Hi hoping. Not sure what the rush to getting a divorce is? The way I see it is about ego, who is right? Being right can kill your life and dreams. It is ok to be wrong. Not saying that what your H did is right. Not clear what he has done from your posts. Can you wait put the D on hold for a bit?
Do you want to save your M? Or are you fantasizing of the grass being greener elsewhere?
I know what you mean about missing the meant to be and the love story. I keep hoping that Perhaps this isn't the end of the book of the R but the beginning of the next chapter and that the new chapter brings a more positive and hopeful dynamic. You just never know.
No, I'm not thinking the grass is greener. I think that's what he is thinking...
All I think about is our good times and how I want to make it last and work, but then I think about all of this pain he has put me through and has shown me that he doesn't care or want to be with me. He had an EA, which turned into a PA and then he got a new cell phone for the past three weeks to continue communicating with her and hiding it from me...then her husband emailed me to say the affair was still occurring and that he had another cell phone. (We have been separated for 2 months now...but his EA started before he left.)
I just don't see this going anywhere but down right now. I tried to be positive over the past two months, with little to no communication with my H and letting him have his space to figure out his unhappiness, but he went against his core values and beliefs and continues to hurt me in the process.
We are meeting tomorrow to do the quitdeed of the house...I'm upbeat every time I see him and try to look my best and don't talk about our R...it just didn't seem to work and I think he is too "checked out" already.
I texted my h tonight to verify the time for tomorrow to meet for the quit deed. He verified the time and said it took him so long ti text back because he was sleeping. I said that's okay and that he would now be up all night and jokingly said you should party hardy. He said no that he would probably just watch a move and go back to sleep. I said well enjoy your movie and ill see you tomorrow.
I just want to watch the movie with him more than anything but I know he is so far from that. I am nervous about doing the quit deed tomorrow because it is more of a sign that this is going towards being over. I'm not completely willing to give him up yet but I don't know what else to do...
I wish I had the answers. I am so scared for the day that I might have to face this. I do agree with Yankee, though, that you should definitely take more time to think about filing. Rushing it in the heat of the moment because you're feeling hurt may only feel good for a moment because you think you now have direction, but you may end up making a decision for him that he may still be on the fence about.
The way I see it, if you still believe in the two of you... then keep believing. There is nothing wrong with wanting to save your M. And as for the trust issues, those things will most definitely take time but can most definitely be resolved. There will be a lot of effort that will need to be given from your H but don't give up hope that you will never trust him again.
I've had to read DR several times recently to help me keep things in perspective, along with reviewing my thread as well. I know he is somewhat forcing you into a negative situation with the way the finances are going but you just never know... something may happen that will jolt everything he thinks he wants and he may suddenly start to shift his way of thinking about your R.
Keep up your DBing even though it is hard. If anything, you'll know that you tried everything you could.
Not sure what the rush to getting a divorce is? The way I see it is about ego, who is right?
I totally agree Rick. When someone is rushing to do something like D, there is something else behind it. Ego. And EA. Or not wanting to experience hurt and pain (which of course is understandable). But there are also a lot of lessons you could pass by as well, lessons that could help to ensure your next R doesn't end up in the same predicament.
My H went into the idea of D with all guns blazing - most likely an EA/OW behind it all. I have no proof, but gut instinct and experience tell me so.
At one point two years ago, I too did exactly the same thing - rushing towards D, because there was an EA behind my motivation. Looking back now, I am so glad there were obstacles in the way and that eventually I saw some sense in what I was doing. My H will soon see sense in his too. (there is clearly a lot of repair that's going to have to happen between us).
So, slow things down a bit H&P, it's only for your benefit - and it will become clear to you as time goes on.
I texted my h tonight to verify the time for tomorrow to meet for the quit deed.
What is a 'quit deed'? If it is what I think, it's basically an act of separating the property - is that right?
Why on earth are you calling him to verify the time and date for that if it is not what you want to do ultimately?
Let him chase you down, not the other way round. And, when he chases you, be ever so graceful about talking about it, but never outright agree. In fact, I've had to tell my own H, "I understand that this is what you want, but it is not something I want, so somehow we will have to compromise on things."
Stand your ground.
He will give you the 'you're trying to control me' line and WHO CARES!! So let him say what he likes. You need to act on your own behalf and for what you want at this point. Let him do all the legwork and convincing - but at the moment you are NOT buying what he is selling.
You might want to think of him as a vacuum cleaner salesman at the moment.
He is clearly the one wanting the divorce - not you. So, delay on that one as well in every way possible (you have doctor's appointments, you are so busy these days you can only make it at the end of the month - that sort of thing.) You need to buy some time here not only for your sake but for him as well (only he doesn't know it yet). 4 months is just not long enough - make it go for at least 8 months (1 month for every year you've been together).
Let him go find his lawyer, but make him be the one to serve you papers, make him do all the legwork. Every action that he takes, he will think about it long and hard. Every obstacle he has to overcome, he will have to use his BRAIN (not his penis) to figure out. You will be inadvertently snapping him out of his fog.
He may still take those actions, but at least the effort that he will need to put in will make him
think every single time he makes a move.
And, whatever you do - be ever so gracious towards him, and continue to work on your own wants and needs and values and your 180's. You will give your M therefore the best chance of surviving, and your wellbeing a chance to flourish.
Yankee,
A part of me says yes this is what I want to do because I don't know if I can trust again after a PA and all the deception.
I know I should have patience...but in the 8 weeks of separation things have only become worse and more involved with this OW and she is married too. He says they are supposedly done dating for now, but he never knows what the future holds with them.
You should read "Not Just friends". There is a case study in there of EXACTLY this sort of situation. Two married people having an EA/affair.
It will give you some good insight, and help you plan your strategy more.
Sorry to constantly be commenting - but why do you think they supposedly stopped dating?
I would like to guess it was her who stopped the rendezvous. She got cold feet or her H started to sniff it out.
So, she left him, he's at home watching movies alone, sleeping late - yeah - signs of feeling low and rejected. Yet, he hangs on to some hope that she might return.
She might, she might not. He'll get sick of the fantasy at some point.
What is your desire FOR YOU?
Hi HP,
You're obviously still conflicted. As others have suggested, I wouldn't rush to do anything. Give yourself a month and see how you're feeling.
H right now is intoxicated with OW, he has blinders on and isn't seeing reality. There is actually a chemical reaction in the brain that clouds our thinking and blocks critical judgement when we are feeling "in love" or infatuated. It's an evolutionary mechanism to get us to drop our guard and let people in for the purpose of continuing the species.
Therefore, he is not "himself" right now, far from it. This is temporary, it lasts from weeks to months and then it wears off. For affairs, it seems to go 4-6 months before people emerge from the haze. What that means is that you may not get introspection or any type of "what am I doing?" type thoughts on H's part during this period. Instead, you're likely to find him convincing himself that what he's doing is right, that he is righteous, and that all this is somehow your fault because of prior actions either real or imagined -- and he's looking to reinforce that belief based on what you do now. He's dying to manipulate you into doing and saying things that will reinforce that he's making the right choice.
When you GAL, 180, act-as-if you derail their expectations, don't play into their script, and the resulting confusion can accelerate their moment of clarity and critical thinking. That's not to say they'll just decide to come back when that point arrives, but that's the point where you can *start* to make progress. Until that point, all you can do is tread water.
What I can tell you is that your H is still in there somewhere, and you *can* forgive him for what he's done and trust him again if you choose to. The path to getting there is long and painful, and requires a huge commitment on your part. It may not be worth it to you when you do your deep soul-searching, but maybe it is -- only you know that.
In terms of the property separation, whatever you do can be undone later, so I wouldn't worry to much about any of it being final. Same thing with divorce really, you can always get remarried, so these milestones aren't really meaningful in themselves, they only carry the meaning that you attach to them.
Unfortunately, stonewalling can play into the WAS script that you are the bad person. If you block their plans, you're not giving them the space they want. Generally you don't want to help them, you want them to make all the plans, set all the appointments, etc., but if they do that, I wouldn't play games like not showing up. You should definitely have your own lawyer and make sure what you're entitled to and that you are protected. At that point, however, I don't believe you're helping yourself or the situatoin by intentionally derailing H's train.
What's the situation on the house? Is there a mortgage? If H surrenders the deed to you he is also handing over the mortgage. You might want to push for some level of financial support at the same time so that the payments aren't a huge burdon.
Accuray
BRAVO Accuray!!!!
I totally agree with you here on everything. You're the man.
The only thing I would say Accuray - I agree that one should not stonewall at all - but don't go giving them everything on a silver platter either - a few things sure - things that are not important to one's self. However, property is pretty big.
There's a fine line that needs to be found, and I'm not so sure it's an easy one to find. For that reason, H&P needs to know in her own heart and mind where she stands and what she wants and whilst not exactly getting in his way, obstacles and delays are no bad thing.
I think he stopped dating because that is what he told me...that I believe him. The other H knows everything also, but is trying to work on his M while they still continue to talk and meet up.
I do not want to rush into anything either. i guess I'll get the information and know where I stand legally.
The quit deed is him giving me all rights to our house. This is something that I want..that is why I'm meeting up with him. Even if we end up together and the house is solely in my name...that doesn't matter in the long run.
As with the mortgage, we are still both on it and I will refinance in a little bit if that is what it comes to. I thought about doing it this week, but I am going to wait. We are both on the mortgage. He is going to continue paying me half the mortgage until our divorce is final. He already gave me May's payment.
Thanks Accuray for your advice and support. I just see little hope in us anymore because he is sooo far gone from us. He lied through counseling, was completely deceitful, and it kills me to know that he has this "in love" feeling for another woman when he's married. You are right that is something that will be EXTREMELY hard to get over. I just wish I could see the H in there that I married. I see glimpses of him but then he turns back so quickly.
I'm nervous about meeting him today because every time I see him I know part of me still loves him and only wants him coming home with me, but I know he does not feel this way.
I just don't understand any of it...
H&P,
I have to tell you, I'm just a little ahead of you on this awful timeline (my H left 2/12/12). I think there must be some kind of wall we all hit - where reality is starting to smack us in the face, and the wallowing we've been doing isn't making the separation any better.
I know that I'm having a hard time with the same things you wrote - he's not the person I met and fell in love with and the constant lying, not to mention the constant rumors of the OW (and the lies associated with H trying to cover that up). These last few days have been feeling especially hard to fight for my marriage. But, I remind myself that I'm not fighting for this marriage, I am standing for my marriage and the promises that I made to my H in front of all our friends, family, priest and God.
I know it's hard and I really do believe that it's the timeframe we're in, and we haven't gotten the complete hang of DB-ing yet. Try to take things slowly as you want to be sure that you don't have any regrets in the future.
Give yourself a break and do something nice for yourself - you certainly deserve it.
{{{Hugs}}}
I just see little hope in us anymore because he is sooo far gone from us. He lied through counseling, was completely deceitful, and it kills me to know that he has this "in love" feeling for another woman when he's married. You are right that is something that will be EXTREMELY hard to get over. I just wish I could see the H in there that I married. I see glimpses of him but then he turns back so quickly.
Lying through counseling is not unusual. I've read a lot on the subject and usually 10% or less of MC happens where both participants are cooperative. 90% of the time, one person is coming to fix the other person, to be vindicated, or to help the other person move on.
For my part, my W had her last A ended 10 months ago now. I have forgiven her for it. I am still hurt. Do I trust her? Kind of. It's a process, and it takes a LONG time to get over it.
Accuray
Thank you for your advice!
Nemo--You are right I guess we don't have this DB stuff down and being patient and giving space is what they need, but it is extremely difficult when you keep getting slapped in the face.
Accuray--I am willing to see if I could forgive him for his mistakes and work through the trust issues, but he told me today that he sees that there is no way we could get through this...that too much damage has been done and that I told him the one thing I would divorce him for would be if he cheated on me. Now, that it has happened, I have taken a different view and want to save my M but he's not there. I also feel that the more time I give him, the more distant he becomes rather than missing me.
He did say today that he's been doing a lot of thinking and analyzing of our relationship over the past 8 years and the good times and the bad times, but he just doesn't see it ever getting better because he knows what his feelings are for me and that there are none...
he told me today that he sees that there is no way we could get through this...that too much damage has been done and that I told him the one thing I would divorce him for would be if he cheated on me.
Remember, "don't believe anything they say and only half of what they do." That is very true, you really can't believe anything he says right now. Do not view his statements as fact, he will likely reconsider when things with OW break down.
I also feel that the more time I give him, the more distant he becomes rather than missing me.
That is our greatest fear, and we convince ourselves of this to justify pursuing. As long as he is involved with OW he will not miss you, you will be out of mind. All you can do is tread water and not make things worse. Give him space. OW will run it's course and only then will his feelings be revealed.
Accuray
Accuray,
THank you so much for your advice! It always seems right on, but so hard to do.
I think this is my game plan:
*continue DB (not making contact, letting him initiate, etc)
*continue GAL (working out, hanging with friends, hobbies)
*let him file for divorce if he really wants it (I've already sought my legal advice and know what is going on and things are already separated, so what's the point in rushing?!?!) It's not like I would be moved on by now if we were divorced.
I think what will put a damper in my game plan is if he signs a year lease at an apt...then I feel as if he is really taking the jump and one because a year lease would be a long time to wait with life in limbo.
Any more advice??
Don't read anything into the lease. He's not thinking clearly. Even if he does that and then wants to reconcile, you'll both find a way through it.
The only other advice I can offer is take care of you. This time is so very hard and you're doing so well with it. Get a massage, do something decadent, go out and listen to live music. Get out and live to the best you can. That's all you can do and it will definitely help.
Accuray
What if he is thinking clearly and this is what he wants? How long did it take your wife to reconsider your R? How long should I give him? He's been out of the house for 2 months...distant for four months...
I feel like I'm more detached now because we are on separate phone lines and I can't see who he's calling or texting so that's good. That part will be easier. He's moved out most of his stuff, separate bank accounts, so if it does end, we've done most of the transitioning.
I am not going to refi my car or the house anytime soon. I decided that it can wait if we do get divorced because those things can easily be done after.
Should I give myself a timeline? Or is that having expectations?
Timelines are fine. Everyone has limits in terms of how long they can live like this, and looking for or expecting short term change is torture. The best kind of timeline is to set a date for when you will reevaluate how you feel, and then not worry about things changing until that time. That said, if you need a timeline that says H must come back by 4th of July or you will move on, then set that for yourself and it may help give you peace. Just don't tell H about it, it is your timeline for you and none of his business.
Despite the fact that its been several months, your timeframe with H doesn't start until OW is gone unfortunately.
In my case, for the 4 months W was with OM nothing I did had any impact at all except to make W angry. Because OM ended it, she then grieved for 2 months for her lost love and no progress could really be made. I don't feel she was really able to start rebuilding until about 3 months after OM and at that point it was two steps forward and one step back. ML didn't resume until 5 months after OM. My sitch is probably on the fast side too.
Accuray
H&P,
I think you're being so hard on yourself. You've had a lot going on this week. Give yourself time to heal a little before you make any major decisions about your future.
Sending you {{{Hugs}}}
Thanks Nemo and Accuray!
Since we have been separated for 2 months now and it looks as if right now this is going to be permanent, how do I know if the OW is out of the picture? He works with her and claims that since I found out about his secret phone a week ago that they don't talk outside of work and do not meet up anymore, but how am I to believe that if we don't live together and are not talking except to divide things?
I put a call into my DB coach...my H and I still have an appointment in two weeks. I know I should give myself time to heal before making any decisions but it's just so hard when I want him home working on this life that we've created the past 8years. He says he's been thinking about our whole life and R and what could have gone wrong, but I don't understand why he can't tell me or start talking to me little by little. He said that 'maybe' he would start writing me emails about it...I doubt it.
Don't push for it, you really have to let him come to you or you will chase him away. You will know when OW is gone because H's behavior will change, as will his communication and attitude. He'll then go through a period of grieving during which he might act even worse. You'll know, but you have to let it happen on his timeline and not yours which is hard I know.
Don't contact him, don't initiate anything. Just wait, he will eventually reach out to you, but you have to wait for it.
Accuray
Thanks, Accuray! You are so right on things and it's hard to do it, but it makes sense in a lot of ways! I'm going to do checks every two weeks on my progress and I should really start writing it down. I guess I can go back and try to remember all of our contact over the past two months...it shouldn't be hard, because there wasn't much!
Remember, make him wonder, be mysterious when he does come looking
Accuray
Timelines are fine. Everyone has limits in terms of how long they can live like this, and looking for or expecting short term change is torture. The best kind of timeline is to set a date for when you will reevaluate how you feel, and then not worry about things changing until that time.
H&P, Accuray is giving you some great advice here. Some I need to take myself. I like the idea of a timeline to reevaluate how you feel and not worrying about anything until that time.
I'm sure it'll be hard to do, but I think that it's a good suggestion. I will be posting this quote on my thread as well as a reminder.
I was not good at DB at all today when I saw my husband to finish the quit deed. He said something about D and I let my emotions get the best of me. We got into an argument about the OW and how some of the house stuff is going to be divided. He also said it was because I was not as loving this past year towards him and that's what drove him away. I wasn't my bubbly self and that I just changed. I wish I would have just went in there happy and acted "as if". I should have because I did just come from a great lunch with a friend!
I feel like I ruined any last bit of hope that maybe we could have had because each time he has seen me the conversation has gone towards our R and the OW and just negative. I then texted him and said we should take a couple weeks off to cool down and then maybe we can talk again. He said that sounds good and that maybe he would email me. I just left it at that.
As for GAL, going away this weekend with friends...should be a good time. I'm just disappointed in myself.
Keep your head up HAP.
Sure you strayed from the path a bit but by no means do I think your reaction today will play a role in your Hs overall decision. Personally I think sometimes it's good to show emotion, despite what people on here preach. It makes us human and shows we still care.
My W has sometimes thought of me as completely emotionless cuz I was so dead set on doing everything "by-the-book". I hope things improve in your life regardless of what happens with H. Have a great weekend, don't beat yourself up. When I'm GALing like you're about to do this weekend, I always try and have as much fun as I can, that if I actually talked to W about it, that I'd have good stories to tell... So, with that.... Go create some good memories. Create some good stories!
I agree with showing emotion too because how can I act as if all the time. Hopefully I can do it next time. We will see because ive lost most hope...
I'm so sorry. Really, I am. I agree about letting it out sometimes though. We are HUMAN. And sometimes showing that is ok. I am a master at NOT DBing. Just check my thread and the latest. My sitch has been insane.
Today I've gone through such an array of emotions feeling like I'm fine without him and ready to start my life on my own, ready to find someone else, and ready to make what I want happen. And then I really think about trying to be with someone else and it just feels so wrong. My H is the man I love. Why is it so wrong for me to love him?
I think getting away for the weekend is such a great idea. You will feel loved and you can vent away. Have a good time and don't fret too much about what happened.
He is in a confusing time. To this day, even though my H has made the decision he has, I still think he's confused. He has gone against everything that we believe in. There is no way that that can feel completely right in his head.
Sorry, I should be venting this on my own thread. LOL!
Just know that there are people that care about you and taking care of yourself is what's most important right now.
Just got back from a weekend with my girlfriends! It was a lot of fun! I just wish I felt better about life because I was so up and down the whole weekend...I was not my usual outgoing self!
As for the M, I have not texted or contacted my H since Wednesday and I'm going to go dark. I talked to my DB coach and if there's any chance of us possibly reconciling, then I'm going to do this and act 'as if.' It's going to be hard, but I'm going to keep myself busy and I'm going to do it!
I really wish I had a crystal ball for everyone!!!
And JKS, keep your head up!!! I feel that my H has also gone against all of his morals and beliefs. He has never been a cheater..yes, a person who is confused with life, but not a cheater! Things will get better!
Glad you had a great weekend of fun! I think we could all use one of those. I know I could.
My H has gone against everything he ever said and everything I ever knew to be true also. I think that is how they can just walk away they are lost and have lost their way.
Sounds like you had a total blast! Good for you and hopefully you will have many more of those days to come
I agree with showing emotion too because how can I act as if all the time. Hopefully I can do it next time. We will see because ive lost most hope...
You only have to act as if, when you are around him, which isn't much. The affair is probably still going on
IN SOME FORM so give that time to wear off...
he likes the "Being in love" feeling and doesn't seem to know that marriages are not always a blast and don't always feel good or easy. So some of that wears off naturally (or else how could we finish college or work on a project??)
Love IS at least partly a CHOICE...
and we have to make the choice every day even if our spouses are not lovable that day.
Stop pursuing and stop taking the r's temperature. Your r has been an 8 year relationship & it's said that a month of CHANGE is needed for WAS to believe it's real. so at least 8 months needs to be "allowed" for him to even process things.
AND for you to show him the new you...
Don't talk about whether you could get past this or forgive him.
1) for one thing, you have done zero forgiveness work, which
starts with letting go of the past and what you cannot control. It's early in this ordeal for that.
And 2)
if he believes you would always hold the affair over his head or throw it in his face when you fight -right or wrong -
he won't come home.
(But don't go verbally correcting that image of his UNLESS he says something about it, and then be vague about "lessons" you are "learning and letting go of the past to start a new r" etc.
Be warm and upbeat like he's a friend who is making a sad mistake --but one from which YOU will recover, but that you sort of pity him for making b/c it's a huge mess...)
Another way of putting that is this:
Unless your h believes marriage to you from this day forward
could be better/different than before, he won't want to reconcile.What are YOU doing to show him that change?
I know you are hurting.
But I have not heard a single 180 of yours. So are you saying you have no flaws or traits you'd like to work on?
No positives to counter his negatives with? You can do othing to undermine his justifications for leaving?
I'm NOT justifying his affair or blaming you. I am trying to stop your helpless feeling and get you to
focus on what you CAN change, which is only YOU. Be a woman only a fool would leave.
What does she look like? Who did he fall in love withFinally sidenote--can you really afford the mortgage once he's gone? We just tried to refinance and our home values have dropped locally, so now we don't have enough equity to fit into their formulas...are you positive this is a good idea?
You're getting great advice from Accuray and others. Pay attention and give yourself way more time before you take the R's temperature again.
There is hope but you have your own work to do. Focus on that for now.
It's all you can control anyhow - so you may as well become your best self to make this ordeal an experience that isn't totally negative.
As much pain as you are in, it is NOT fatal or eternal.
How long it lasts is at least partly, if not totally, in your control...
You will more than survive this...
have you read the Detachment pieces or the 37 "rules" for newbies here?
Thanks 25,
First, I can afford the house on my own, because we originally financed under one salary, which was his and he made less then, so I can afford the mortgage on my own.
Second, as for 180s, the only thing that he complained about was that I was not affectionate around him over the past year. This I cannot change, because we're not around each other. The only other thing that I can think of is to be more positive around him and not bring up the R or A because this is something that I tend to do because it does bother me. I have said everything that I feel I need to say to him, so I think it will be easier to not bring up the R or A.
I will have to think more deeply on that, but as for 180s that I can think of now:
*be more positive and upbeat when I'm around him (He fell in love with the bubbly/outgoing personality.)
*more forgiving of people's mistakes
*do not offer my insight or opinion unless he asks me
*do not call, text, or email (6 days strong on this one! :))
Once again, I will think about more 180s and work on them. My biggest thing right now, I think, is really acting 'as if' when he's around (which you're right is not much).
Thank you again for your advice. It puts things into perspective and gets me thinking. It's just hard, which is no excuse and you know it's hard because you've been through it. I wish I had your strength and perseverance and could get these DB moves down quicker. I wish I would have done better with them when I found out about certain parts of his affair!
Don't think it was easy or that I was great at it b/c I was doing it for two years.
In fact, the first several months I was NOT DBing b/c I didn't know what it was. We saw 2 marriage counselors, or 3, who blamed my h for "acting single" and "being selfish and putting himself first" etc
Even though that validated my perception, it did nothing for me as far as knowing what TO DO about it, except file for divorce AND
my h became convinced that I had "brainwashed the mc's" to take my side - so it was useless to continue. Many of them tended to re-hash the past and that was not solution based, although that term was unknown to me until I found DBing.
Eventually I found a MC (for awhile he was MY IC) who was pro-marriage and solution based and he said that if my life wasn't changing or if I wasn't being noticeably helped by him within 5-6 sessions, then I'd need someone else. He was goal oriented and it DID help.
He and I didn't re-hash the past or re-live traumas or try to correct the past or get even w/my h. There is not getting even or seeing the past identically. You have to back off enough so that the positive memories get a chance to re-surface.
Right now, the more you argue against or challenge your h's choices, the more he defends them. When he defends the choices he gets them more entrenched in his head/heart. Don't corner him into HAVING to be "right"...
this is not about being right, it's about being happy.
Don't fight his choices now....don't help him either, but don't fight or challenge or question them.
By backing off and letting him discover the grass is greener where you water it the most, at least you won't slow down his learning process.
So you must let him figure this puzzle out for himself.
And btw, it took me several months to really "Get" this, and
I'm not sure how long I could have done it for if I had not had an internal timeline/deadline for my oldest d to graduate from high school.
That was a 2 year goal, in total, and that goal enabled me to know that
I would not be in limbo forever - and that in the meantime
I was going to GAL and I really did do a good job of GAL. THAT part is something I did well pretty early on.
IT helped me the most and
then I felt better about myself, became more of my former better self
and the rest started to click AFTER I got into DBing and GAL...
But there are such things as dealbreakers...
If the affair is something you know in your heart you cannot ever get past
then ask yourself
if you are fighting "FOR" your marriage, or simply "to win" and not be the rejected one.
I don't mean that to be insulting. It is a question WE ALL have to ask ourselves at some point.
I can tell you though I'm glad I'm with my h now, I could NOT do another round of this
so for ME, that would be a dealbreaker...b/c
We'd be done & I'd never look back.
But What I learned is that my dealbreakers were fewer than I realized and that I could put up with a lot if my children were affected...you don't have kids and in that sense you are lucky.
You are free to make a choice with only your happiness (and his) in mind.
Make sure you are.
Those questions about wanting to stay married vs just winning, and
whether you really could get past this
are not questions to take lightly. Reflect on them and pray on it and seek the truth of it. You may be able to forgive more than you think.
I can tell you that for me forgiveness had to be learned b/c I never saw it growing up. Letting go of what I cannot control has been among the greatest life lessons I've learned here, for just how to be content.
But only YOU can make these choices-
and you being happy is NOT up to your h...it's all up to you, regardless of HIS choices.
Hang in there. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
ps
when he says you were not as affectionate, how much truth is there to that?
Also did you with hold sex from him? Sometimes spouses use sex, even subconsciously, as a tool to get something they want.
It's not very healthy...and for many men, ML is the way they feel connected to their spouse so if they feel rejected often enough, then they can feel very unloved & lonely IN the marriage...
and if someone at work or elsewhere in their life, pays attention to them at that vulnerable time and he is not strong enough or healthy enough to stay faithful, it goes downhill fast...
In normal marriages, there is real difficulty when you have little ones who take up all your sleep time and wreak havoc, although temporarily, with your hormones and level of desire.
Most long term successful marriages (>20 years) report their lowest level of marital satisfaction was the first 2-3 years after their 2nd child was born.
I think it's mostly the reasons above...lack of sleep, lack of free time, less time for intimacy and the temporary change in the woman's body & how the man handles not being the only love in his wife's life.
That's when other love languages really have to be spoken more, b/c we all need to feel valued by our spouse and show them their value to us, even when we don't feel well.
But you have no children yet.
So if you did withhold affection or made love less, why do you think that happened?
If it did not happen that way, why do you think he says this?
Does he really believe it, as far as you can tell? Did he ever say a word about it the past year or so?
Thanks 25!
I do think that I could really forgive him and work through things with him. It may take awhile, but I am willing to do that, because I really do think we have something special. I always thought it was a deal breaker and that's what my H has said to me...he doesn't see me getting over this because I've always said that I would end a marriage over cheating...especially a PA.
As for the affection, this past year has been difficult for us, because he was trying to earn my trust back from texting a girl from work over year ago. I, think it took me maybe 6 months to get over that and not talk about her at all. I was a little hesitant at first about being close to him and affectionate because I didn't feel the connection with him and he didn't seem like he was really 'in' our relationship.
Then, around, July-ish, I snapped out of it and was more loving towards him and affectionate. Our sex life, I think, and he never really complained about was good! He also mentioned that I was not appreciative of the things he was trying to do to get my trust back, which were
*staying home
*coming straight home from work (no breakfast with friends)
*spending more time with me
I was appreciative of these things and told him that they were working, but I always knew in the back of my mind that they wouldn't work for him, because he wasn't doing things to make him happy. He was always at home or at work and that's not what I wanted.
I felt and so did he, that he needed to make more of a change with himself internally and try to find this happiness in life that he couldn't find. Anytime that he gets 'down' on life, his MO is to just 'restart' his whole life and start from scratch.
That is what he wanted to do a year and a half ago when he texted and went to breakfast with this other girl from work. It was his new 'high' in life and he wanted to restart his whole life. After he got over this (took about 3 months), he explained that this point in his life was a form of suicide and he didn't know what was going on. He promised me that nothing like this or worse would ever happen again...but it did and it IS worse!!
I'm just so confused because I feel like this is EXACTLY what he did, but worse! I just don't understand how someone could throw away 6 great years and 2 rocky years for a lifetime that could be wonderful!!!
Asking "why??" Is pointless and counterproductive b/c it keeps YOU STUCK.
It's irrelevant anyhow b/c to HIM something was missing in his life.
It may be a spiritual crisis, an emotional one, a behavioral or all three. It may have fully involved the marriage.
But telling him that you can be happy and have a "great life"
when it's been rocky for 2 years won't make sense to him AT THIS TIME...
Plus I am wondering--
Is this such an aberration in his behavior - OR is this a pattern for him?
We are only looking at the texts/ EAs and a PA that you know of.
And already there IS a bit of a pattern in that, and the marriage did not get repaired then when the first EA happened...nor did he get therapy (or if he did, it did not take. No offense, but He sounds emotionally very immature or unstable. Does he see a shrink or take meds?)
When you had that first crisis in the marriage, you rejected him b/c you were hurt and
he said he tried to get your trust back by doing things YOU dont' believe he was alright with. But wouldn't that have been a good time to work on the marriage in a solution based way?
I'm not saying "too late now"!!
just wondering why YOU think marriage to him now,
would be any better or different?
IF it's possible for him to realize the mistake he's making AND to try and repair the marriage
it will NOT be b/c of you pursuing him. It'll be b/c HE discovers it on his own and
YOU GAL so then when you two interact (and you will interact if you two have been together since such a young age. It's just too hard to toss out all that history without missing the person, though it guarantees nothing)--
THEN you can be upbeat and warm and the woman he fell in love with. And you'll run into 3rd parties who know you both and you can "act as if" then too. Word will get back to him. No one misses a miserable person who makes them feel guilty. For a lot of men, guilt converts into blame or anger, fast...
But make sure you are not simply holding on b/c you don't want to be alone.
Some folks hate being alone.
The one thing for sure worse than being alone, is wishing you were.
I do wish we were more solution based last time because I was so STUCK on his EA. I think marriage to him would be different this time around because I know what I have missed and I know that we both need help and aren't perfect.
He did seek psychological help, but only went once and did not like the counselor or psychologist. He, then, went again a week after we split this time and said the counseling appt was crap and did not go to his second appt...he cancelled it. However, his primary doctor, who referred him to the psychologist, did prescribe Zoloft for him based on what he was describing to the doctor--anxiety at red lights, pacing and near crying when he reads about service members' memorials but does not care about anyone else dying, his dissatisfaction with life in general and always looking for something more...
He was on the meds for 2 weeks but did not like the side effects and went off of them. I don't even think he gave them time to kick in, but who am I to say anything to him.
This is a pattern of his type of behavior:
*During his sophomore year of hs, he dropped all grammar school friends and stayed in for 6 months, because he did not like hanging out with them anymore. He found new hs friends, a gf, and started hanging out with new ppl.
*He stayed close friends with all of these friends until sophomore yr of college, and then pretty much dropped them all, too including his gf of almost 4 years. He just said he didn't have feelings for her anymore. He dropped out of college and joined the Marines.
*Two months later we started dating and he left for boot camp 2 months after we started dating.
*4 years of Active Marine Service...honorable discharge and regrets getting out.
*Happy with his life for about 6 1/2 years (up until a year and a half ago) and now wants to restart ALL of it!!!!
He says it would be one thing to be tempted by other girls, but since he's actually had a PA, he feels that what we have is just gone!!
then I guess there is a pattern, AND he has problems that he's not working on.
So the ONLY question for you now is,
what are YOU going to do
to create a happy fulfilling life for yourself, with or w/o him?
Try this "exercise" please...b/c it really helped me.
Please envision something for me--
Imagine your life 5 years from now, without your h in it,
but w/you being happy...
what would it look like?
Now Imagine IN DETAIL who you'd likely be hanging around with or what types and where you'd spend your time...how would your career change or grow?
Would you take up any new hobbies or restart old ones? Any sports teams or dance classes?
Speaking of classes-have you always wondered about studying the cuisine of another culture? (Of course I have French parents and we love French and Italian food) so cooking classes were a must.
Or maybe learning another language or even an auto safety class (talk about meeting people). How about travelling?
Yes It's likely you'd have someone in your life by then but regardless, this vision is a positive one so we know you are not "lonely" in it...
SO imagine this new, happy life for yourself and flesh it out...what's it look like?? Take your time...
Now, what of those things can you being doing now?
25--Thank you so much for giving me that exercise to do!
I envision myself just smiling and happy. I envision myself with kids and a loving husband who feels he is blessed to be with a wonderful woman (faceless husband right now...haha...wish it was my current H). (This is something I was hoping would start this year.)
I envision myself fit and active...enjoying more outdoor things. This is something I can start to do now...I have the best figure that I have had since I was 18, so that's a start!! (smaller than I've been...due to stress!)
I do want to take a cooking class and learn Spanish. My school network is going to offer Rosetta Stone to teachers and parents, so that is something that I am going to look into this summer!
As for career, I love teaching, so I just envision myself continuing with education and possibly getting my National Certification so that I can teach in any state. I can't start that process until I have a couple more years of teaching.
I envision myself surrounded by my amazing network of friends that have been helping me through this process. I do want to travel more and hope to have people to do it with.
Although it was a good exercise, it also made me cry because it does hurt so bad because I miss my H so much and could still see him in my future and it hurts that he does not see me in mine!
I will look into taking a cooking class, possibly on the weekends, and hanging out with friends...maybe run a marathon...although I do hate running, so maybe that's a far fetch! haha
1 week strong of going dark....
Congrats on the one week of NC!
Well done!. For the most part, it does get easier...
Uh, hey, please don't skip over the first part of that post..
the part that says "your h has a pattern"...it's not an aberration in his behavior but a continuation of it...
maybe he sees conflict, or simply feels bored, and He jumps ship...
He isn't keen on changing. He may never change.
So when you envisioned yourself happy, my guess is
that it was with a h who values you
above all others
and about whom you have NO doubts...that's a good feeling.
You deserve it. Way to go on the GAL stuff for this summer b/c it
Sounds like you have a great summer planned.
(HEY- it gets better)
I will second what 25 says about thinking hard about H's behavior pattern. Your mind and body are making you want him right now simply because he is out of reach. If he comes back and resumes this pattern of cyclically checking out, things will be very difficult for you once kids are involved.
For my part, my vision of reconciliation was that we would both work hard on improving our marriage, after the hell I went through, I really wanted to come out better for it. W does not share that goal with me, so to some degree the limbo continues. Remember that the Hollywood vision of the wayward spouse crawling back with tears in their eyes and apologies to offer is fictional. You and H arrived at an equilibrium in your marriage for a reason, and that "place" will always have a strong pull.
Accuray
Accuray makes a very good point
My exercise for you was for you to imagine life with your h, but w/you being happy. You did a pretty good job of that!
If you want to do the same exercise for you WITH your h, then be realistic about what it would take. You'd have to insert a few TOOLS that you don't yet have.
You went down this road before and when you two "worked it out"---
you didn't.
You withheld affection b/c there was no trust
and he felt he was trying to earn it back and I'd bet there was no clear road map for either of you to figure out what it would take to avoid this pattern from continuing...
but it IS continuing. So you'd need a roadmap to a new better marriage.
Since he's NOT interested in that right now, all you can do is appear open and warm BUT detached AND moving forward (so he really fears losing you) and
has the space to examine his choices, which he will NOT do if you challenge the choice. No more pursuit. You can be receptive to his outreach, without pursuing him.
What would it take for you to feel safe with this man? Is it realistic that he'd do what it would take? Would you do the work to forgive him then?
(BTW you can forgive him NOW without him doing a darn thing...why? B/c the anger consumes you...)
This was a real issue for me. I didn't not believe my h "deserved" forgiveness and he sure had not asked for it.
But I noticed I was SO angry at him for the injustice of it all and his selfishness, ETC
that I was not doing well at work and more importantly, I was not really there for my kids. Too preoccupied with my pain and loss.
It was ME that was miserable, and probably my kids/co-workers. Endless questions like "WHY is he doing this? When is he going to wake up? HOW can he do this????? "
are all Unanswerable, useless questions, that hinder our progress.
When that hit me, I realized no matter what h did or whether we reconciled
I could NOT keep on staying in my anger/victim mode. It was not helping ME or our m, and it sure wasn't hurting h.
(Remember, "holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes.")---so let it go, for YOU.
If you can't feel safe w/him, but you "reconcile", and do not get the tools needed for that, then the whole "re-build trust/withhold sex/affection cycle will go on too. If you do approach piecing I'd suggest you attend Retrovaille which is a retreat for marriages in trouble. My h and I went and like most couples, we got a lot out of it. More than I expected or even hoped for. It was the first time I felt my h "GOT" it and that helped me feel safe with him again. That's huge.
In your sitch, while I usually don't think re-hashing the past helps
since there is a pattern, maybe a little would not hurt.
Your h MAY have felt like he didn't know how many more laps he'd have to swim before he'd be embraced by you again...
and You did not know how to forgive & let go of the anger, and embrace b/c you two did not get to the core of this.
I doubt He "got" that what he'd done was very dangerous & hurtful AND a warning...
he only knew he did not want to lose you....until the next time he wants something/someone else or gets bored or a bit down or whatever...
So come up with 2 visions. Both have to be achievable, at least in theory.
You only control you...but if you want to be with THIS man
May I assume you don't mean this man as he is now...?
Okay then...there is not a lot you can do about this^^ b/c he has Not changed.
Thus far, all signs point to him NOT changing anytime soon...
So vision #1 for being with him is----IF & when he does the work it'll take to earn your trust again, THEN you assess. We'll support that.
MEANWHILE you work on YOU. Letting go of what/who you cannot control
will lead you to greater happiness in your life. Seriously...
#2 Then envision life without your h, as you did before...a good loving life...and begin to create THAT.
IF your h sees you moving forward in your life and GAL and being upbeat, it's hard not to be attracted to that. AND
It'll counter his negative unforgiving images of you and undermine his reasons for leaving you...which you want.
If he does NOT do the work HE needs to do, you will still be better off b/c you will have moved to a more fulfilling, happier life, that much sooner.
If he DOES do all the work, you'll have wasted no time pining for him
AND,imo
you will probably have speeded up his awakening process.
The sooner YOU get that the LBS moving forward & being happy actually can trigger work in the WAS, the better.
It never delays the work of the WAS...
and if he never grows out of this, you'll be in your new life that much faster anyhow.
IOW, your course of action in the immediate future is the same regardless of what he does.
Make sense?
PS
HP, about 2 weeks ago you wrote this:
"No, this is not what I want. More than anything, I want my H home with me...the man that he was a few short months ago. However, he is no longer that person. He has changed so much and does not want me in his life. Even if he did decide one day before the divorce is finalized, I don't think I could ever trust him again." (emphasis mine).
You don't know what the future holds. So what do you "know"?
You "know" that's he not the man he was, at this time. No evidence of that changing soon, if ever.
So you Plan accordingly, meaning, assume he will not be the man you want BUT that you will be happy anyhow (hence the vision exercise)
and then, IF he does the work to change and wants a reconciliation, you'll be coming from a place of strength, not want or fear or loneliness...
Okay? So take care of YOU now, and know and trust that this WILL improve.
Are you a woman of faith?
Assuming yes, lean on HIM b/c He can handle our baggage when we cannot.
try turning over your anger and your marriage, over to God.
I found that thinking "God, I turn my marriage/pain/anger over to You", and then saying it out loud, in the shower so the kids didn't hear,
and hearing the words, all helped it sink in. It really helped give me a sense of peace. But sure, I had to say it MANY times...per day...
So Let it rest in His hands and let Him help you work on healing your wounds and creating a new life of fulfillment.
(((( ))))
You don't have to be religious to do that exercise, you can just say "I surrender to my situation, because I cannot control it". That can have the same calming influence -- or maybe it's not the same, I wouldn't know since I'm not that religious! In either case, the surrendering really helped me. It was written about at length in the book "Mindful Loving" which had some good nuggets in there amid a bunch of new-age stuff that was more difficult to digest.
Accuray
25 and Accuray--Thank you sooo sooo much! Your words are inspiring and it is great to hear from people who have been through this and made it to the other side.
I do see myself improving daily. I do not cry as much and the mornings are not as bad as they used to be.
I am going to look over your posts more thoroughly and try those exercises tonight and daily!!!
I am not a completely religious person, but my mom has also stated the same thing to me and I'm trying ANYTHING at this point. I don't want to give up on us and our marriage, just yet....well at least not today! I believe you posted something to me 25 about 'today not being the day' to give up just yet!
I have, however, been thinking why does He have two people fall in love, get married, have a great life, and then hurt the other one so badly. I feel as if I was strong before this situation and didn't need this situation to make me stronger
But then, again, does anyone????
OMG...Today is the 2 month mark of since he left...can't even believe it! I can't believe how much has changed in 2 short months...crazy!!
Question...when I hit my threshold and feel as if I have tried everything, but Retrovaille...do I ask and suggest that to him as one final try??
If you have nothing to lose, why not? I haven't done R-vaille but many folks have said it was very helpful, although at least one person on this board saw no change in WAS' attitude afterwards. I would just go in with the expectation that it may not change anything for H.
Accuray
When I envision my H is my future, I see us happy with children and just acting like the best friends we were a few short months ago. I know it is going to take HUGE amounts of work, but I am willing to do that to save my marriage.
When this minor stint happened last time, you are right I did NOT have all the tools. We went to MC and the MC pretty much told my H that he needed to figure out what was making him so unhappy with himself and that there were no 'real' marriage issues, because at the time, he/we could come up with nothing.
I should have DEFINITELY gone into counseling to work through my trust issues, but I chose not to do that and I do regret that
As for my H, I did say this past year at the beginning after it all happened that we did need to get to the root of what happened and why it happened so that it did not happen again. All he came up with was that he went crazy and his world was spinning out of control. Then, when he decided he wanted back into our R, my birthday came shortly after our piecing began and he gave me a card that stated "I was the only one for him and it always has been me..."
I look back at that card and think how much has happened in a year!!!
So..continuing my vision...I see us going through counseling individually and then together. I see us smiling, laughing, and holding each other like we used to when he would leave for deployments. I see us reconciling things between our families (making the whole in-law thing work better). I just see us happy and complete!!!
I see myself cooking more for him and possibly getting into a hobby like running together or hiking and definitely travelling more. I can start the running and cooking thing now...
As for now, I am starting to let go of more and more anger. I do not think about what he is doing every minute of the day. I am trying to keep myself busy. I also think about how I am going to act when I see him next...I am going to be happy and my normal bubbly self.
I am going to show him the loving, amazing person that I am (It drives me NUTS that everyone else can see this right now, but he can't...even people that have known me for as little as three months.) I have this work friend who I went to lunch the other day with. He said "I can't believe your husband...does he really know what he is giving up?" It hurts me to know that he doesn't...but I am going to try to let go of that.
I feel that I have come a long way in 8 weeks...I wish I would have done better at times sooner, but 8 weeks isn't too bad, right?? I do need to start to see an IC to start working through my own trust issues that will most likely resurface if our M works out or even in another relationship.
And Accuray, I do still imagine the movie reconciliation reunion...because I am a hopeless romantic at times. I do wish that real life was like that...haha!
Thank you both for your kind and thorough responses. You are two people that keep me going in this DB when most of my friends and family want me to drop him, because I deserve more. I want to give it my all and have no regrets if I do decide to end the marriage.
My mom thinks that me waiting to file for D is going to make him more mad and then he will eventually file...I don't really see this as the case, but then again, I do not know the man that I see or interact with.
I just found out that my H did find an apt...I'm not sure how long he signed the lease because I found out from a mutual friend. I knew he was doing it, but now that it's for sure, my heart is broken again!
This doesn't really change things, but it really looks as if he's moving forward without me! And, he didn't even call to get the furniture from the spare bedroom that he wanted so badly and the rest of his stuff...who knows?!?!
Well, off to tan and get some food!
Journal:
I'm feeling pretty good right now. I'm getting ready to go out with some friends and just enjoy life!
However, there is still that part of me that wants my H so bad, but I can't have him right now...but I really don't want the man he is now.
He randomly saw my mom on the street last night driving and she waved at him...he rolled his eyes, put his arm up, and had a mad look on his face. IT was COMPLETELY random that they were driving on the same street...but it was by his new apartment, so he was probably thinking that I sent her to look at the apt, but she did not even know where he was living....let alone the town he moved to! So RANDOM...
Off to listen to some music, and dance while I get ready
Really....as if it's ALL about him or as if your mom has nothing better to do but scope him out and try to help you win him back....pphhhffff!
plllleeeasssee.... the way he is now? I don't think so...I'm a mother and if either of my d's were dating or married to a man doing this to them-
I would Not be trying to find out where he lives
unless it was to slap him.
Think about that H&P, if you had a daughter going through this and you knew it was not the first time he'd behaved like this...
what would you tell her?? *********
SIDENOTE
40 years ago, my handsome uncle left my beautiful loving aunt for OW, while they were living in Europe. They had 2 small children.
Uncle left Aunt for OW named "C". Aunt was devestated, living in Europe, while uncle went off with OW and
OW's children...moving away with OW/her kids.
Aunt returned to the US with $26, 2 kids and no job. She was SO hurt and betrayed and angry...for a long time.
Something in her snapped her out of it b/c she just decided life was too short to feel like crap all her life. She picked herself up, dusted herself off and got a teaching job, found a place to live and started to move forward. It was SLOW b/c she could not believe uncle would leave her. The affair was one thing but the idea that he'd leave her, shocked her.
She GAL...She raised their kids. She remarried too. 8 years passed and one day out of the blue, "C", (the OW that her ex h had left aunt for, and married)...--
called my aunt-- -- to see if Uncle was there
with Aunt! Meaning, uncle was still a cheater, Cheating on his "new" wife C...(
but he was not cheating on C, with aunt)
at that moment, my aunt said a huge wave of relief swept over her. Suddenly the realization of what had happened truly sank in.
It hit her that
Uncle had done her a favor by leaving her 8 years earlier
b/c that's 8 years in which my aunt did NOT have a stomach ache or sick feeling of worry about where her h was, or whether he was lying,
again...
She'd always be fearful and insecure and she'd never be truly content in a marriage with uncle. Not possible. But til that moment when C called her to reveal he had kept on his cheating ways...aunt had believed they could have had a great m...thing is, Not true. (She didn't know it THEN but does now).
Uncle has a fundamental character flaw that makes marriage to him, SUKK for a woman. It's been 40 years and he's still the same, although now he has regrets.
Uncle knows his chidren were raised by their stepfather NOT him...and that he left a good woman and was still a cheater on his 2nd wife. That he barely knows his grandchildren, and his own kids see him as so very flawed and disappointing...
Uncle Told a bf that if he'd "known how much pain he'd cause" he'd have stayed w/aunt.
But see, staying vs leaving is not the issue.
Why not learn to keep your vows? I mean I think he regrets the leaving, not the cheating...
so in most ways I'm glad he left aunt, b/c she remarried a nicer man and after his sudden death 25 years later, she eventually began dating again.
Now She's been in a healthy r now for years with a good, younger man...so there you go.
Karma does work when you let it!
25--You are AMAZING! Everything you say is just so right on and makes me think and open my eyes a little more each day! And quite honestly, over the past few months, H does think the world revolves around him!
Your last statement about Karma is exactly what my mom just told me today, because she really thinks that he has been in this pattern for so long that he won't change anytime soon, unless he really gets the help he needs and that Karma will get him.
If this were my daughter, I would not want her being hurt by this man over and over again. I would be doing the same thing that my mom is doing...she's supportive of whatever decision I make, but in all reality really wants me to let him go.
Thank you for sharing your story of your Aunt. I'm sorry she had to go through that heartache and I am glad she was able to find a wonderful H!!!
I guess I still just can't see letting go of the life we have created together so quickly. I am so better with the detaching...not thinking about what he is doing, not pursing (dark for 10 days!!!), not checking emails, going out with friends and family A LOT more, talking/meeting new people....I feel a lot better about myself than I did 3 weeks ago, let alone 9 weeks ago!
Life is looking up for ME, but I still have this hesitation that I will find that special someone if my R with my H does not work...
Yay H&P
You sound so strong. You inspire me!!
My H thinks the world revolves around him too. That's why OW is so wonderful to him because she fawns all over him. She knows nothing about him really.
Hard to act as if right now. He's gone yet again. And this time he knows I know why. Now he thinks I will be okay with it. Oh this hurts. Trying to be strong for the kids.
Thanks W,H! I would not say I am an inspiration. I still think about my husband and wish he was home with me working on things...that sadly is still my dream even after all the hurt he has put me through.
I know that reality is most likely that I will not be with him, but I"ll try until it's over.
Until it's over and even after it's over though, I will continue trying to live my life as happy as I can be.
I have always said to "Live every day to the fullest and have no regrets, because you never know what tomorrow will bring."
I am saddened with myself that it took me 7 weeks to do this...
Yes I still wonder if I should fight for H. Do I even want him? I have Been thinking about that question a lot. I don't like the man he has become.
w,h, i know how you feel. when he first dropped the bomb, i "angelicized" him (my word). he was so wonderful and i would be losing the best man in the world.
going through this now and being separated, i've come to realize that he's responsible, too, for us getting to this point. i'm thinking about some of his personality traits (controling, selfish, unforgiving) and wondering how i would be able to deal with it should we R.
i'm not the only one who needs to make changes. and if he doesn't, can i live with him? won't it be hard to maintain my own changes if he doesn't?
i would never have believed i could feel this way a few months ago but living with him has not always been easy.
Remember that "fighting for your spouse" through pursuing is a Hollywood concept. You "fight" for your spouse by resisting your own urges and NOT pursuing them.
Accuray
Thanks, Accuray for that reminder! I'm not too sure if this 'going dark' is going to help my M, but at least I'm getting more used to not contacting him.
H has moved to his own apt, not told me about it, and still has stuff here to move out, but has not contacted me in 11 days...I don't understand why?!?!
Even before I went completely dark, I only texted him about our dog and when he would let her out. It's been 9 weeks and no real initiation from him about ANYTHING!
SS--Yes, I understand that I have contributed to where we are today, also, but my H claims he's tried EVERYTHING to fix us this past year. I, however, disagree, but am slowly letting him go. He WILL one day realize that he has made a HUGE mistake and will regret his EA/PA and not fixing things with me, if that's how our 'love story' ends...
25, that post about your aunt is quite amazing. I loved every bit of it. I'm realizing more and more every day that what has happened to me needed to happen and I know if I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, I will be taken care of. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. It is highly valued!!
Stephanie, sounds like you are getting to a good place. This is exactly where you need to be. Good work, my friend!
Thanks, JKS! I am feeling better, because I just found out last night that most likely my H is still seeing this OW and it is now more open at their workplace. I do not understand how they both feel okay about this when they were both married.
Her H kicked her out 2 weeks ago, so I know I shouldn't assume things, but I can only assume that since he still has not contacted me in 12 days that this girl is staying with him.
Part of this whole situation makes me laugh, because he is with a girl who in almost every sense is not as wonderful as I am. Yes, I understand I contributed to the breakdown of our marriage (even though I didn't know anything was wrong), but cheating is NEVER the solution. She smokes, has lower morals and values, is not fit, not cute (I know looks aren't everything, but my H always used to jokingly say he would D me if I got fat, cheated on him, or became an alcoholic.) Guess the fat thing is out the window for him...
I just don't know where his head is and every day I truly am closer to serving him with D papers because it doesn't look like he is going to come out of this fog anytime soon. I just still can't let go of 7 great years with him...and the idea that he 'might' come back and truly fix his life and mistakes.
I think as time progresses you will realize that the man you married may not be there anymore. And I probably shouldn't be saying that but seeing your H have an open affair with someone else makes it very hard to see them for what they were. Nothing you or I did is worth going out and seeking that kind of intimacy with someone else. That is why I look at this whole situation and think it's so silly. I can actually laugh at it now because just like you said, you are wonderful (and I'm realizing now, that I am too). There is nothing there that can't be worked on and amended. We are good people who don't deserve this but probably needed it to happen in order to find true happiness out of life.
Just my two cents for today... LOL!
I agree with you, JKS, but it's easier said than done. I still find myself wanting him so badly at home...the guy he was 5 short months ago!! Where did that guy go?!?!?
It is getting easier though!
2 weeks strong of going dark and still NOTHING from H.
Hold strong hopingandpraying, at some point it will be very tempting to reach out to him. Think about what you'll do when that happens, plan in advance so that you don't act on it.
Accuray
Be strong...if the urge gets to you, write him a letter in your journal. That helped me to detach rather quickly. I knew he would never see it, and I could anything I wanted in it.
Thank you! I'm not even sure what I would say...I'm thinking he will only contact me to get his remaining belongings from the house.
Chin up H&P. I fight the urge all the time to reach out to H and ask why. My H has a journey to take and lessons to learn and so does yours. In fact, so do you and I. We both just need to take the high road and remember we are fantastic and wonderful women and that our H's at the moment are lowering themselves to date a woman who has no problem seeing a married man.
Just remember that.
w,h, i know how you feel. when he first dropped the bomb, i "angelicized" him (my word). he was so wonderful and i would be losing the best man in the world.
at first the loss is great magnified. Takes time to assess with a more realistic view. Especially if they have changed, b/c that's new data to process. OR the idea that they were "sort of" like this all along but their behavior culminated in them leaving - makes us second guess our perception of everything. That hurts too.
But seeing them in the light of truth usually helps A LOT.
going through this now and being separated, i've come to realize that he's responsible, too, for us getting to this point. i'm thinking about some of his personality traits (controling, selfish, unforgiving) and wondering how i would be able to deal with it should we R.
i'm not the only one who needs to make changes. and if he doesn't, can i live with him? won't it be hard to maintain my own changes if he doesn't?
Your H is totally irrelevant to your changes.
You make changes b/c YOU want to make them for you. You change b/c you want to be the best possible you. You become a "woman only a fool would leave"--NOT to get him back, But b/c you deserve to be your best self---- and so does your family.
He has NOTHING to do with your changes.
Lose that scorecard fast or your "tactics" to get him back will be revealed as just that. He's NOT relevant to your personal growth...period. Please, please "get" this...
My SIL just emailed me and said they told my H to not bring her around any time soon. She said not that he has mentioned it, but to not even think about it. With her writing that, I know that he is still seeing her for his sister to actually have to say that to him.
It made me have this sick feeling in my stomach because he is probably actually thinking about how he will introduce this girl to his family (a girl, who is also married).
I know that he does not deserve me and I'm so much better than this other girl. A HUGE part of me now wants him out of my life and to never turn back. He has changed so much into a person I would NEVER want to be with.
GAL--I got my hair trimmed and highlighted. I have not had highlights in my hair in over 8 years. If my H does see me, he is going to think "Whoah!" A 180 for me!!! Not that I did it for him, I wanted to try something new and reconnected with a friend who does hair (one of the many things that have come from this!)
Good things thus far:
*Made friends with one of my neighbor girlfriends
*Reconnected with a friend from grade school who does hair and I LOVE how she did it today.
*Reconnected with a friend from many years ago
*Became closer with a mutual friend that my H and I had (wife of one of his friends) She has been an amazing support
*Talking more with family
*Lost 15 pounds on the Divorce Diet (haha)
I'm sure there are more...
Yay! You with your hair and me with my miniskirt!! Let's hit the town! Lol!
My SIL just emailed me and said they told my H to not bring her around any time soon. She said not that he has mentioned it, but to not even think about it. With her writing that, I know that he is still seeing her for his sister to actually have to say that to him.
It made me have this sick feeling in my stomach because he is probably actually thinking about how he will introduce this girl to his family (a girl, who is also married).
try not to mind read so much. For all you know, he's suddenly realizing that he's made a bit of a mess. For now, that may "unite" them in an "us against the world" view, but it's also just plain messy.
His own family is supportive of YOU and that's a gesture of kindness to remember.
I know that he does not deserve me and I'm so much better than this other girl. A HUGE part of me now wants him out of my life and to never turn back. He has changed so much into a person I would NEVER want to be with.
if that is true about him, then it's better to know now, rather than a decade and 3 children later, isn't it?
I don't mean to sound anti-marriage but
then I think of my aunt...maybe your h is doing you a favor IF this is who he really is now.
Thank you, 25! I should not mind read, because I really don't know what my H has been thinking this whole time. Only he knows and I don't really think he truly knows..haha!
I'm not anti-marriage either, but you are right maybe it is a blessing in disguise!
I'm not ready to give up yet, but only time will tell.
So, my H is being more open about their R because he told his good friend that he is still seeing her. He also told his friend that his R with her did not start until he ended things with me, which is not true! Yes, we decided to separate but the terms of the separation were to NOT see other people. AND, he was calling her before he separated from me!
It makes me sad sometimes, because he did just decide to end our marriage for another woman and obviously picked her over me...after all that we have been through. I feel used and cheated!
15 days going dark...and NOTHING from H! I don't understand it...
Hoping - Sorry to hear that...
Fact is the WAS will lie to portray themselves in a better light and to make sure they aren't perceived to be bad people. At the end of the day who cares?
My W told a friend that she "recently" got a boyfriend - I know they have been seeing each other off and on for 18 months (at least 6 months before the bomb) - at the end of the day focus on yourself not what they say or do.
You are right NYC..it doesn't really matter what story he is telling people to make him feel better. It still bothers me though because I just can't believe that he's in a way trying to make me look like the bad guy!
I do need to focus on me. I focus on him less and less each day, but still want us to work...not sure why?!?!
H&P you still want it to work because you are still in love with "what was." That is not the case anymore. The marriage you had is over. That is what I had to get through my head, and we would have been married 25 years on May 15th. The person I fell in love with is no longer the person he is today....maybe he never was the person I thought. I don't know, and quite frankly I don't care.
I like getting to know me again...I am actually quite cool! I do get lonely, and mourn what could have been...we all do. But that is a part of the process. I am moving forward, and I am going to be healthy, happy and ready for whatever life hands me. YOU will be happy and healthy too...and ready to face whatever the future has in store for you.
I do believe that time will heal all, and that the karma bus has all our WAS's numbers!!!!! They will come to realize one day what they so foolishly threw away. Have faith, and take care of you.
You is kind, you is smart, you is important! LOL:)
H&P
Of course he is going to portray himself in the best light possible. No one wants to be branded as a cheater. When H admitted his A to me he started to go down that road of how it was my fault and I drove him to it. I think they tell themselves that so they can rationalize their behavior, but it isn't enough to tell the lie, they actually have to believe it, because then it isn't a lie.
You know the truth. That's all that matters.
And you want to work on the marriage because you took a vow for better or for worse. We all did. We are not quitters and if there is a chance of restoring the love that was once there, we feel it is worth the risk.
Thanks, girls!!
I feel sad again, because if we do follow through with the D, I found out my state is a no-fault state, which I thought it was a fault state because one lawyer told me it was and many more have told me no. I wanted him to feel some kind of responsibility for this, but I guess you are all right...that I know the truth!
I sometimes just want to be done with all of this...I shouldn't want to be with someone who does not want to be with me and is 'okay' with replacing me with another woman while we were married and still continues to date her!
I want my old life back that I had 6 short months ago, but I can't wallow in that. I have to push forward and continue to GAL!
This affair isn't about you. It's about him. He is looking for someone or something to make him feel good about himself. He has an internal void he is looking to fill. My H has the same problem.
Thanks, WH! I know it's not really about me, but obviously he was missing 'something' from us that he found in this girl that he still with...ugghh!
Well, I'm off to dinner to watch a few sports' games...maybe there will be some cute guys there!
I hope you have a great night!
He did not choose her over you -- don't look at it that way. He cheated and lied. You absolutely cannot compete with the danger and excitement of an affair no matter how great you are. Its not about you and you cannot be compared. If you find yourself thinking that way, do your best to stop yourself
Accuray
Thank you Accuray for putting it into perspective! You are right and I'm going to try to stop thinking like that on my down moment!
You're 27 years old, good looking and smart, go out and have some fun!
I am going out with friends tonight, which will be a fun time! I just have to not think that it is my H's weekend off work and normally we would be doing something together and now he's most likely doing something with his gf.
17 days of going dark...no contact on either end and really trying to detach. I'm getting there day by day....
**I can't believe I'm 2 1/2 months into this separation...heading towards divorce!!!
HAP,
I hope you have a great weekend. I totally get all your fears and frustrations. I'm trying to stay out of my head as much as possible and I hope you do the same. Today has been 14 days of no word from W. I sent her a letter via snail mail on Tues so it should be getting to her soon, even today. I'm trying to just not think about it but it's tough.
Out of curiosity, are a lot of your friends single or married?
Hi Ben,
Yes, getting out of our own heads is VERY hard.
Well, a few (3) of my girlfriends are single and the other group is all married (3 couples), so it's tough! I also have friends that have bfs. As for guy friends, they are all taken by gfs, too!
However, all of my H friends are mostly single except for one couple that we used to hang out with mutually.
Keep staying strong!
That's a lot like me. W has mostly single friends, and more guy friends due to her career. Meanwhile most of my friends are married, and don't really have any close chick friends.
Makes it a bit hard to get the jealousy going
Nothing like making them jealous by going to a married chick friend's kid's 2nd birthday haha.
But we press on nonetheless!
I know what you mean about the jealousy thing. I am slowly coming to realize though that if I'm happy and living my life that is something that he can be jealous of.
I know he can't be truly happy with his life and the decisions he has made. A lot of his friends have lost total respect for him and he will not hang out with the friends that are married. He has only been hanging out with (from what I hear) friends from work who are okay with what he is doing because most of the ppl at his work have done this, too!
However, I don't really care anymore what he is doing or not doing, because I am having a good time with family and friends and trying to stay busy. Do I have my ups and downs EVERY day?!?! YES!!!!! Do I still want him home? YESSS!
Like you said, we press on nonethless!
AND--18 days into going dark and still NOTHING! He has furniture and memorabilia things at our house still and he had this weekend off and he still didn't come get it.
Stay dark. You're doing great! It's so hard for people not to reach out, you're really doing an amazing job, I'm so impressed with your discipline and resolve. You're doing the best thing you can do for your situation right now. Be strong HopingAndPraying, we're here for you.
Accuray
Thanks, Accuray!
I still don't understand why he has not reached out to get the rest of this things. If he just wants to be done with us, then why won't he come to get his things so that he does not have to see me until we get divorced (if that's what our end is)?
I feel like he should just make the final cut...but he won't for whatever reason that I am not aware of!
I am proud of my going dark progress. In a way it is helping me, but I don't see it helping our situation. How long have people stayed dark and then saw some kind of progress from their H or W?
How long have people stayed dark and then saw some kind of progress from their H or W?
It seems like a month or so is where things might start to change. MWD does say something about that in her book where if you're DBing productively for a good month you will start to see some changes in your S. Obviously, every situation is different but I did see progress in my sitch after a month of going dark before H changed his mind.
While my W hasn't ever mentioned D, it's been 7 months and she still has tons of her stuff here. Who knows why they leave it or why they wont take it... Chalk it up to another mystery of the WAS.
Don't spend too much time on the whys. As you are coming to realize, you come to very few answers.
I agree...mysteries..haha!
I try not to spend too much time because I don't get any answers from it because he has not even talked to me in about 18 days now...no contact. We've gone months without contact before, but that was because he was deployed and couldn't contact me. This is just because he wants me out of his life, but can't make the final cut??
The reason things they do dont make sense is because they are crazy right now! They are having a MLC or breakdown or whatever. The things they do like leaving their stuff doesnt make sense cause they are confused.
Focus on yourself. Be the best H&P you can be!
Well, WASs--we're confused too about what you're thinking! How about you let us in on your thoughts a little?!?! haha
One explanation for their leaving their stuff behind is procrastination. They anticipate that having to ask you for it is going to be a painful conversation, or showing up to get it will make them feel badly, so unless they really, really need it, it's much easier to say they'll deal with that "tomorrow", and tomorrow keeps stretching on.
There is an opportunity there -- when they finally do reach out for their stuff and you DON'T make it unpleasant for them, you rock their world because you didn't play into all their expectations. If you're happy, help them pack up and send them off with a wave and a smile, do you think that will lead them to question their thinking? Those are the nice opportunities for the LBS.
Accuray
Thanks for that post, Accuray! I needed it.
One explanation for their leaving their stuff behind is procrastination. They anticipate that having to ask you for it is going to be a painful conversation, or showing up to get it will make them feel badly, so unless they really, really need it, it's much easier to say they'll deal with that "tomorrow", and tomorrow keeps stretching on.
There is an opportunity there -- when they finally do reach out for their stuff and you DON'T make it unpleasant for them, you rock their world because you didn't play into all their expectations. If you're happy, help them pack up and send them off with a wave and a smile, do you think that will lead them to question their thinking? Those are the nice opportunities for the LBS.
Accuray
thanks accuray - i needed to see that explained. we have the same issue here. recently h has said many times, that splitting up our stuff is going to be emotionally very difficult and painful (his thoughts) and i am just planning to be cheerful and easy about it - deal with it matter of factly, and not fight about anything like what belongs to whom.
they are trying to avoid everything that makes them feel badly - because they're feeling so bad already, that it's unbearable to face one more feeling bad thing.
You're right, and they assign a lot of that bad feeling to being caused by you, rightly or wrongly. They feel they are responsible for your feelings, and they don't want to be, and they resent you for it.
That's why "act as if" is so important. If you let them off the hook and demonstrate through your actions that "you are no longer responsible for my happiness", then they can approach you as a friend and not an adversary. You remove the black cloud from over your head, and the barbed wire from the approach to your front door. You need them to see you independently working on your flower garden with a smile on your face and the sun over your head. Who wouldn't want to get involved with that?
Accuray
It's hard because you constantly have to resist the temptation to sprinkle in comments when they complain. When WAS says they are sad, or it's hard to divide up possessions, you think "hey dumb@ss, we're doing this because of YOU, this is what YOU want", so we're tempted to say things like "if you would just X we wouldn't have to Y" and that puts them back in the role of the guilty party responsible for your feelings.
That's one of the hardest parts of DB when you're in the moment.
Accuray
I agree with you Accuray that it is probably difficult to make the final cut, but like you said it would be hard not say well "Ummmm this is your fault that we're doing this..."
I am mentally preparing myself for the day he finally comes to get his things. I would think that the stuff that is still at our house is stuff he kind of needs...like a bed (which is his grandma's and he knows that I don't want that), TV stand, couch, and his military memorabilia. Not that he needs the memorabilia but I would think he would want that.
So, when he does come I am going to try to really act 'as if' because I do want him to see the happy side of me even though this is not what I want.
I also want him to see the happy side, because when we talked last and saw each other, we argued about separating things and his affair and I'm sure he's thinking that this is how it will be the next time we see each other.
He could even try to get his things when I'm not home since we work opposite schedules, but he has not done this either. It just confuses me...
I kind of wish I could go back in time and not argue with him on the days that I saw him...I feel like that was my chance to really show him I can be different when I'm upset. However, I let my emotions get the best of me.
19 days....and nothing
Not your fault, you're human and were put into the most stressful and difficult situation there is.
There is no sense in rehashing what you could have done differently because there's nothing you can do about it now except for act differently going forward.
No regrets, only positive motivation for the future!
Accuray
I kind of wish I could go back in time and
not argue with him on the days that I saw him...I feel like that was my chance to really show him I can be different when I'm upset.
However, I let my emotions get the best of me. 19 days....and nothing
you will have another interaction. Each time you do, remember Accuray's words. This is an opportunity for your 180...
also, please understand that there is NO measuring cup here.
Your happiness does NOT = his misery and
his misery does NOT = your happiness.
If you win the lottery - does that mean he has to be sad/mad? No...
and if your car breaks down, that does NOT mean he can feel some glee.
B/C you guys are both in charge of how your lives go.
Maybe he will NOT regret the affair b/c maybe his rationalizations will continue, or maybe he will regret it deeply for the rest of his life...or something in between.
What matters is how you live your lives! Please understand & ACCEPT this and make it so...Don't stare at him, wondering if he's miserable so YOU can be happy...or if he's happy then you'll have to be extra depressed.
Do not connect his mood du jour with YOUR happiness. That reeks of neediness and I have to ask, were you like this in the marriage before?
Maybe being so dependent on him made him feel smothered...NOT that an affair was justified
but you have to dig deep to see what or how you'd be different in the next r, with or without him.
So stay out of his "sandbox" and don't worry about what HE is working on
and do YOUR OWN WORK.
Take charge of your happiness!
Sure, it so happens that your happy upbeat DIFFERENT attitude is way more attractING and appealing than a sad angry woman is...but it's not a tactic, it's a change in you.
Plus you already saw the result of your anger and his reaction-- when he fled after the last time you guys argued..
HP, it's NOT confusing to me that he has not made contact. It makes sense.
B/C the last time you two spoke, it was NOT good for him. AND
HP, it does not matter that you are "right"...
this lesson was hard for me to grasp.
Our mc's said h was being selfish and acting single...so I was "right"....well, so what?
My being "right," was not making my h CHANGE...in fact it was irrelevant to h,
but my being HAPPY & interesting and upbeat and warm, might have made the difference....
for sure it changed ME b/c I took back my life.So, maybe you can do those exercises we spoke of earlier in which
you imagine life without your h, but with you being happy.
What have you been doing to create that life?
[/b]
You ask "how long?" I do not know...I was m for 25 years at the time...and
I've heard it said that
A month of change for every year of the relationship, is a GUIDELINE for the WAS to see change in their partner and believe in it.
Of course that means they SEE the change and that it's consistent...neither of which applies to you right now.
consistent change + sufficient time = change they can believe in...Please Do your own work, focus on YOU and move forward. He'll know how to catch up if the time comes. And you'll be in a much better place than standing still wondering about him...
try to see that taking back your life is empowering, not surrendering.
Do you get that? Hang in there!
((( )))
Thanks 25!
I was not needy or smothering in our marriage. If anything, I was always the upbeat one and VERY independent one. I took care of most things around the house, bills, checking account, etc. He was in charge of mowing the lawn and vacuuming once a week (haha). He seemed to like it that way, because once I started working full time and asked for more help with things, he didn't like that I was no longer his 'part-time' stay at home wife.
Despite his mood, I always tried to be upbeat and happy, regardless. Because, in general, he is a crabbier/moody person.
I know it does make sense in a way that he will not contact me or come get his stuff, but I don't see how you can't give it another try.
I do get your insight and it makes perfect sense. I still try to do those exercises and have been happier over these past couple weeks. I have been going out with friends and truly enjoying it.
I am going to join a gym this weekend, got my hair highlighted, and have been eating better. I also looked into getting a second job to keep myself busy and get out more!
I understand your equation and how it does NOT fit right now, but how is he to see that I'm not going to bring up the affair or try to argue with him if he doesn't even contact me? How long am I supposed to let this 'going dark' go on for without any response from him?
I feel as if he is just waiting for me to say 'hey, we're done, so why aren't you coming to get your stuff?' Then, that way, I've made the decision again for him (I told him to take his clothes from the house when I found out about his other phone that he was using to contact his gf). That was almost 4 weeks ago!!!!
He's always had people making decisions for him--his mom, military, then me helping him with marital decisions. He made the decision to leave me and have an affair, but he can't make the decision to cut me off completely...that is the part that I do not understand.
I know I shouldn't try to understand his ways, but at times, I just wish I had more answers. I have let go of wanting to find some, not all, of those answers!
I feel I will never have the answers that I want because I was looking at our wedding album the other day (packing it up for him) and I read our marriage vows, which we wrote for each other. His stated "from the moment I met you, I knew that I wanted to be with you forever. It was only a matter of me getting you to feel the same way..." Now, we're on complete opposite ends...
Only time will tell and until the end, I will continue living my life and bettering myself for myself!!!
I'm having a bad day today at work...just little things that are adding up.
It's tough because I have not really had a bad day at work or with any other aspect of my life since my H left and now I do and I just want to be able to go home and vent to him or text him or call him
Don't do it!! You can talk to us!! : )
HP
I'm going to make a few short comments with the assumption YOU DO want the marriage saved...
which I say here b/c I am Not sure you do, b/c some of your actions are NOT DBing.
Therefore you can't look for or monitor results very well if you have not been consistently acting differently. Your h could very well make argument that YOU have sent out mixed signals...make sense? Don't forget to "do the math" below
consistent changes + sufficient time = change the spouse can believe in..
LATER, you can decide IF YOU want this man as your h, as he is now or as he evolves but for now, just work on YOU.
Thanks 25!
I was not needy or smothering in our marriage. If anything, I was always the upbeat one and VERY independent one. I took care of most things around the house, bills, checking account, etc. He was in charge of mowing the lawn and vacuuming once a week (haha). He seemed to like it that way, because once I started working full time and asked for more help with things,
he didn't like that I was no longer his 'part-time' stay at home wife.
Sure sounds imbalanced. Did you ever speak up about it? Did you resolve the conflict, engage in problem solving
OR
Did you seethe with resentment instead?
In other words, you knew it was unfair and it bothered you. SO...YOU did what? Despite his mood, I always tried to be upbeat and happy, regardless. Because, in general, he is a crabbier/moody person.
I know it does make sense in a way that he will not contact me or come get his stuff,
but I don't see how you can't give it another try.
Well, he's not you, and in his mind, perhaps, he thinks he did give it another try...
we cannot mind read here.
Maybe the clothes still being at "your" place reveals indecision on his end. I sure would not push him to pick them up.
If need be, box them up to get them out of your line of vision or to make room
I do get your insight and it makes perfect sense. I still try to do those exercises and have been happier over these past couple weeks. I have been going out with friends and truly enjoying it.
I am going to join a gym this weekend, got my hair highlighted, and have been eating better. I also looked into getting a second job to keep myself busy and get out more!
Great stuff. I hope you do some FUN GAL things too...a 2nd job might be wise (but it'll be a big drag if it's a big drag job and that helps NO one...
So make it fun and or worth your while)I understand your equation and how it does NOT fit right now, but how is he to see that I'm not going to bring up the affair or try to argue with him if he doesn't even contact me?
How long am I supposed to let this 'going dark' go on for without any response from him?
well, at least a heck of a lot longer than you have. Why is there so much pressure on your end?
Are you staring at the phone every night waiting for your life to continue?
If you get busy and happy, it won't matter when he calls. Going dark means, in part, moving forward...so don't act (OR FEEL) as if you are "hiding in the closet dark" waiting for your life to continue and putting it on hold in the meantime...move along-forward motion...
I feel as if he is just waiting for me to say 'hey, we're done, so why aren't you coming to get your stuff?'
all of this is mind reading...and also, who cares if he is? I mean, just don't do it...and if you notice, when his action isn't crystal clear,
you put the worst spin on it possible. How does that help you in any way? Doesn't it tend to make you feel way worse, which puts you in a negative mood and possibly brings about the very thing you fear?
Being happy does not set you up for failure...it's just a happier way to live.
Get back to the positive upbeat woman you say you were in the marriage.
Then, that way, I've made the decision again for him
so don't make the decision for him...this may be hard, but it's NOT complicated
(I told him to take his clothes from the house when I found out about his other phone that he was using to contact his gf). That was almost 4 weeks ago!!!!
so you got hurt/mad and to punish him, you forced him to remove some of his belongings, which means he's LESS attached to you and the home...so
do you think your reaction helped or hurt your cause? That is always THE question to ask.
My belief is that either your reaction was a huge turn off for him and confirmed to him that you won't get past any of this AND that he was right to leave
AND OR he's furious at you for your choices made in anger.
He's always had people making decisions for him--his mom, military,
then me helping him with marital decisions.
too much psychoanalyzing HIM and not enough working on YOU...
you don't have control over him so most of your "insights" are irrelevant wheel spinning AND besides, as for "Helping him with marital decisions" that is what spouses do. I just re-wrote my h's Officer Eval Report b/c I'm a better writer than he is. So?
My h is an MD who makes life and death choices in the Operatng Room so No, I do not feel he is being "babied" by me or the world. I'm just helping my spouse...period. No biggie.
You are trying too hard to get in his head and avoiding serious introspection of your own. I think you are merely scratching the surface. I sense a lot of you revolves around him but when I say that, you claim you were happy and independent when married to him...okay...
but you seem to be saying you were pretty much a great wife, he was a mediocre h who cheated.
IF THAT is the sum of your marriage, then what is the big loss? If it's not the sum of your m, then there's more and you need to figure out what that is. B/C I think at some level you know there's more to YOU than what you've said and More for you to work on.
That's good news b/c it means you are not powerless.
And if you were a perfect wife, who had a h leave her for OW anyhow...then that would be a terrible sitch b/c
if you were a truly perfect wife and this happened ANYWAY, how powerless we'd all feel and be.
He made the decision to leave me and have an affair, but he can't make the decision to cut me off completely...
that is the part that I do not understand.
1) he has not contacted you for a month...that's NOT long and evidently,
2) he's conflicted. I would think that would make you happy. He has mixed feelings and is NOT sure what he wants to do. I don't think It's hard to understand.
It'd be much harder for me to understand if he took ALL his things and put them in storage or in his new place and had nothing connecting you to each other and zero loose ends.
Be glad there are loose ends b/c, don't forget, You crave the chance to show him your changes.
What's your option?
Insisting he come home NOW and get his stuff? Why? To show him a thing or two?
It's not the spouses' job to "show them the consequences of their actions"
OR to "teach them a lesson"...LIFE teaches them, not their spouses...
and How does that help you in ANY way?
If you insist you need it for closure, be ready for that "Closure" to really happen.
Do not imagine that being angry and punitive is going to "wake him up"-
He will NOT slap his forehead with an epiphany,
saying "OMG, what was I thinking? Now that you insist I take all my stuff out of OUR marital home, I am now sure I want back into your heart"????
(Why push him so much? What's your goal again? OH yeah STAYING married...)
I know I shouldn't try to understand his ways, but
this^^^ is a classic example of an UNproductive thought process. You "know you shouldn't".....BUT...and the word "but" means that whatever you said preceeding it, is gone
b/c you really just want to get your way and the word "but" is the beginning of you ignoring the adult side of you. "I want to be honest BUT I decided to lie anyhow..." "I want to lose weight BUT I don't like exercise"...
"I wish I could walk 3 miles like before, BUT I don't b/c it's hard and it's hot..."
See a pattern?
You're right, you should NOT "try to understand his ways" expecially when you are in this situation.
there is No communication, therefore there is nothing to understand and only mindreading and obsessing happen - and they are UNproductive, probably negative...
at times, I just wish I had more answers. I have let go of wanting to find some, not all, of those answers!
What's to say here? Let go of your "need" to know the unknowable, or spin your wheels some more. It's your choice. But life is short.
I feel I will never have the answers that I want
Probably correct. Hence the need to stop waiting for the answers or spinning your wheels imaginging various scenarios. Period. People change. If they did not change we would not be here trying to get our situations to improve. Adapt to what IS, not what might have been. because I was looking at our wedding album the other day
(packing it up for him)
what? Why are you packing it up for him? OH b/c you want to guilt him and remind him and hope he slaps his forehead with all the memories?
This is very obvious (to me) and it is manipulative b/c you stil want to make him do something or feel something.
Let go of the illusion that you have any control over him...it IS an illusion.and I read our marriage vows, which we wrote for each other. His stated "from the moment I met you, I knew that I wanted to be with you forever. It was only a matter of me getting you to feel the same way..."
HP, we all felt differently on our wedding days. In time, we can hope his old feelings and memories will resurface as he feels the freedom and space to let them. But staring at the past, keeps you stuck in it.
For the next 90 days why don't you just work on detaching and NOT obsessing? Then do it some more in 90 day increments...or at least 45 days? (90 days is the minimum imo) so you have time to process things and he can sense that a genuine change MAY have occurred.
He does not trust that yet. He thinks you are waiting to attack him or guilt him. (No man stays in a marriage for guilt. The shame factor leads to resentment and anger at the source of the guilt, so don't try that route. IT'll back fire).
Now, we're on complete opposite ends...
Only time will tell and until the end, I will continue living my life and bettering myself for myself!!!
Don't rush things. Hang in there, GAL (there is a reason we hammer that. It's crucial that you "GET" this...GAL is the single best thing you can do to be happier in your life (& more attractive and interesting to your partner)
and it really helps to stop obessing. I recall auditioning for a play and getting cast (which was very labor intensive).
After our first rehearsal, it hit me that for 3 hours, I had not given h a second thought. That's when I KNEW theater and performing were great GAL things for ME...
YOU can do this. It's a question of discipline and choice.
Do you want to hang onto the past and your sense of loss
or embrace the future and whatever it holds?
Either way, You are heading into your future. But which attitude you bring with you, will determine whether you are happy.
Thanks for the insight 25! I will respond when I have more time, because you did bring up a lot of things that require some deep thought.
I do know, in my heart, and mind that my life did not revolve around my H. I had things to do outside of our marriage and always went for my goals and did not always think about what he was thinking/feeling...as I do now (not in a bad way). I respected his feelings and thoughts on everything, but you're right I was as obsessed about what he was thinking.
He, on the other hand, only had work and working out.
I do know that this past year I might not have been so open to listening to him about what he wants to do with his future and that would have been a turn off to him. However, I do know, (because he stated it in a letter that he wrote to his psychologist) that he gets bored with life and always wants more. That is something that I don't think I can ever give him.
Just scratching here....I'll think and respond more later!
Thanks again!! You are right...more time is needed and there is not much of a rush. I'm happy with all other aspects of my life right now, so I just need to continue seeing the good in my life!
I'm not sure if I did this whole quoting thing correctly but I tried...
[/b]
I do want my marriage saved...it's just that I don't see much hope in reconciling right now, so I become discouraged.
[/color]
[quote=hopingandpraying]Thanks 25!
I was not needy or smothering in our marriage. If anything, I was always the upbeat one and VERY independent one. I took care of most things around the house, bills, checking account, etc. He was in charge of mowing the lawn and vacuuming once a week (haha). He seemed to like it that way, because once I started working full time and asked for more help with things,[b] he didn't like that I was no longer his 'part-time' stay at home wife.
Sure sounds imbalanced. Did you ever speak up about it? Did you resolve the conflict, engage in problem solving
OR
Did you seethe with resentment instead?
In other words, you knew it was unfair and it bothered you. SO...YOU did what? [/color]I did try to talk to him about it and he did start to help out a little more. However, I didn't really mind in a way...I just kept adding more things onto my plate because I have always liked to stay busy and do things. I do know that he knows I can sometimes hold grudges depending on how I have been hurt, so I am pretty sure that is something he is also worried about. Maybe the clothes still being at "your" place reveals indecision on his end. I sure would not push him to pick them up.
[/color]That's why I have not contacted him about the clothes, because I do see it as a way of him still being confused. I am pretty sure if the roles were reversed that I would want to get all of my things out if I knew that was my decision. Then, again, I do not know because I am not in his shoes.
Are you staring at the phone every night waiting for your life to continue?
[/color] No, I am not at all staring at my phone waiting for him to call. I, guess, there is no immediate rush. In my head, I just think this time in limbo is sometimes more hurtful than helpful. Yes, I completely agree that I should start 'bettering' myself more because, in the end, I will be a better person for myself and for my H or someone else. I just need to get it out of my head that I am 'wasting' time right now, because not only could I be bettering myself but I could also be on the lookout for a new guy if I knew things with my H were definitely going to end. This thought I know is something I definitely need to work on...not that I need someone else to be happy, but a family is something that I looked forward to starting this year!
I feel as if he is just waiting for me to say 'hey, we're done, so why aren't you coming to get your stuff?'
all of this is mind reading...and also, who cares if he is? I mean, just don't do it...and if you notice, when his action isn't crystal clear,
you put the worst spin on it possible. How does that help you in any way? Doesn't it tend to make you feel way worse, which puts you in a negative mood and possibly brings about the very thing you fear?
[color:#3333FF]I agree that thought process does put a negative spin on things. Funny thing or odd thing...today one of my work friends was complaining about the rainy weather and babbling about God knows what and I said to him "Quick name something good in your life!" He just laughed and said "You and your optimism!!" I liked that he still saw that in me, because that is the person that I am...happy, outgoing, always smiling, and wanting other people to smile. I just wish my H could see that now, too, because it wasn't long ago (only a few weeks before he left) that I was like that with him. (I told him to take his clothes from the house when I found out about his other phone that he was using to contact his gf). That was almost 4 weeks ago!!!!
so you got hurt/mad and to punish him, you forced him to remove some of his belongings, which means he's LESS attached to you and the home...so
do you think your reaction helped or hurt your cause? That is always THE question to ask.
My belief is that either your reaction was a huge turn off for him and confirmed to him that you won't get past any of this AND that he was right to leave
AND OR he's furious at you for your choices made in anger.
[color:#3333FF]I think it more sent the message that I wouldn't be able to get over it and at that time and part of me still thinks now that I won't be able to get over it, but only time will tell with that!I sense a lot of you revolves around him but when I say that, you claim you were happy and independent when married to him...okay...
but you seem to be saying you were pretty much a great wife, he was a mediocre h who cheated.
[/color] I can honestly still stand by and say that I was a great wife. I did not revolve my life around him and had hobbies outside of our marriage, as well as a job and friends. I do think he was a great husband, when he felt good about himself and life choices. When he would get into his moods is when his attitude and behavior towards me would change....
because I was looking at our wedding album the other day
(packing it up for him)
what? Why are you packing it up for him? OH b/c you want to guilt him and remind him and hope he slaps his forehead with all the memories?
[color:#3333FF]I was packing up anything that reminded me of him because if we're done, I do not want those things. You are correct that I did/do want him to look at these things when he is unpacking...either to remember the good times and smile and not regret the 8 years we spent together. Or to yes, make him think twice when he is going through stuff...which in a way is manipulative.
[/b]
For the next 90 days why don't you just work on detaching and NOT obsessing? Then do it some more in 90 day increments...or at least 45 days? (90 days is the minimum imo) so you have time to process things and he can sense that a genuine change MAY have occurred.:
Yes, I will try this...I'm not sure if I'll wait 90 days, but I do have a time frame in my own head.