Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/05/12 07:20 PM
I just realized that my other thread had more than 100 posts so I thought I would start a new one now. My last thread was here
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/05/12 08:46 PM
Small update

I had a talk with the boys at lunch today. I told them that I would be going to my fathers for Easter and we decided that it is best if they go with H to his family, as it is local and their turn for the holiday. I mentioned "I know that its no secret that we are still having problems" and they nodded.

I asked them if they have any questions or need to discuss anything. They made eye contact with each other (clearly they talk to each other about it, which makes me happy). They both said no.

Then they quickly moved on to happier subjects and wanted to share stories with me, we laughed and had a very nice lunch.

When it is finally time to have the separation discussion, H and I will do that together. But based on this one, I think they expect it.

It probably came as no shock, as yesterday was the first time in 20 yrs I didn't participate in H's birthday.

So proud of these boys!!
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/05/12 08:51 PM
Those are two amazing young men you got there, Autumn. And don't think for one minute that they're not WATCHING THEIR MOM, and how you're handling this.

They're proud of you. And they're probably protecting you (by not asking you anything, lest they upset you).

Amazing stuff, when the cubs grow up and begin to protect the mommabear. smile


Starsky
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/05/12 08:59 PM
Thank you, and yes I have no doubt that they are watching. [quote=Starsky309
Amazing stuff, when the cubs grow up and begin to protect the mommabear. smile
Starsky [/quote]

It really is smile
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 01:36 AM
Autumn. Reminds me of my boys... The older one tends to... "Mom. No worries. You make everything alright, always". The younger one dies something silly to make me laugh. I have to remind them from time to time that it's ok to talk, ok for Mom to cry, ok for them to be sad. They just want their Mommies smiling!!!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 12:28 PM
Had a good night. He came home as I was feeding S15 dinner. S17 was already at work. H had something to eat too.

He was trying to spend time with me and followed me out when I went out to the game room. I turned around and said "if you prefer to be in here, I don't mind going to front" He said "oh I thought we would spend a few minutes together, is that ok"

I didn't say anything and he said "You hesitated, I understand and walked away"

A few joking texts but no more interaction from H

This morning he said "are you still taking your car in" (he usually handles all cars)

I said "yes it is just inspection, and I will ask them to look at my alignment"

He said "I am available if you need me to step in"
I said "thanks but I trust our mechanic (friend of H) and I will be good, S17 is picking me up"

He got irritated, said "Have a good day" and left for work

I'm trying to handle each situation well but I have to admit, I giggled a bit this morning. So ridiculous to get mad over a car.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 02:06 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
Had a good night. He came home as I was feeding S15 dinner. S17 was already at work. H had something to eat too.

He was trying to spend time with me and followed me out when I went out to the game room. I turned around and said "if you prefer to be in here, I don't mind going to front" He said "oh I thought we would spend a few minutes together, is that ok"

I didn't say anything and he said "You hesitated, I understand and walked away"

A few joking texts but no more interaction from H

This morning he said "are you still taking your car in" (he usually handles all cars)

I said "yes it is just inspection, and I will ask them to look at my alignment"

He said "I am available if you need me to step in"
I said "thanks but I trust our mechanic (friend of H) and I will be good, S17 is picking me up"

He got irritated, said "Have a good day" and left for work

I'm trying to handle each situation well but I have to admit, I giggled a bit this morning. So ridiculous to get mad over a car.



"A+", Autumn, all the way around. Nicely done!!! whistle
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 02:11 PM
Thanks Starsky!! It felt natural and easy, which is nice.

So I just got an email from H explaining a change to his paycheck (withholding change he made) and copy of his paystub which will be great for my L smile

I asked him if he prefers I use the debit or credit for my car today. His response was "can we talk about finances in general soon, where we are at etc, maybe take a walk to do away from the kids"

Clearly he is talking about finances together which means he doesn't get it or doesn't want to get it.

I need to figure out the best way to say I really need for him to move out and that is the discussion we need to have, and whatever financial discussion comes from that.

I hope we can be adult and pleasant but I have my doubts as he keeps "forgetting" that I have already asked him to move out before.

My father suggested some luggage on the porch smile

I will do some thinking today to figure the best way to approach, but for now I am not responding to his email (busy with work if he asks)

Ugh, good thing I am feeling strong again today
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 02:32 PM
Autumn,

Did you ask your attorney if it would be advisable for you and the boys to move out?

I normally do NOT recommend this (as it's preferable to take a "I didn't do anything wrong; if you're uncomfortable here, then YOU need to leave" stance), but since your husband has repeatedly refused to leave, and now very likely has been ADVISED not to by his attorney, I think you should consider this. I have read some approaches where the shock of an empty house, devoid of their spouse, kids, and the kids' toys/clothes/hobbies and such can make a real impact on a wayward spouse who is sitting on the fence.

Something to consider. Do NOT leave yourself, WITHOUT your kids (could be legally considered "abandonment"), and I know you wouldn't do that anyway. And do NOT do this without first consulting with your atty.

And yes, I do agree that you need to separate yourselves and your finances now, as you figure out your next steps. Your husband needs to learn to MISS you, and needs time on his own to figure out if he is really committed to doing the things necessary to build a new marriage with you. Any good IC worth their salt will tell him that THIS DECISION-MAKING PERIOD SHOULD BE MADE WITHOUT THE INFLUENCE OF A 3RD PERSON, but that's going to be entirely up to him. All YOU an do is figure out what YOUR boundaries are . . . your "Non-Negotiable Boundaries of Personal Integrity," and communicate them firmly and lovingly to your husband.

Then leave the ball in HIS court.


Starsky
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 04:09 PM
That is a very good point and if I need to after this talk, I will ask my attorney about that.

I am hopeful that he has resisted til now because he thought he could manipulate me and he has been seeing that he now cannot, which will hopefully help him realize I am serious. At one point he said 'i will review my options, it makes sense for you and the boys to stay here. i owe you that much'

I am going to hope for the best with this conversation but have my plan b if I need it, beginning with a call to my attorney.

I plan to simply state "you've mentioned how unhappy you are, and I agree with you that in this state our marriage is very unhealthy. I know we previously discussed this but feel like we should revisit it now, do you think it would be possible for you to find alternative living arrangements within a week?"

His parents and good friends are all right here, so he could really go same day but I figured a week may be more fair.

On a fun note, since I won't be with the boys on Easter I have decided to take them to the Phillies home opener on Monday. I got 3 standing room only tickets and we will go early to enjoy all of the festivities. I just told them and they are so excited smile So am I!!
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 04:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves


On a fun note, since I won't be with the boys on Easter I have decided to take them to the Phillies home opener on Monday. I got 3 standing room only tickets and we will go early to enjoy all of the festivities. I just told them and they are so excited smile So am I!!


omg, WHAT A MOM!!!!!! whistle whistle grin
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 04:26 PM
Thanks!! My youngest and I are actually Yankees fans but since we live in Phillies country they are a close second smile not to mention NL not AL. My oldest is a huge Phillies fan and was beside himself when I told him.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 05:40 PM
Autumn...

I have an idea.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 05:46 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
Thanks!! My youngest and I are actually Yankees fans



Me 2! Price I paid for marrying a Jersey girl, I guess. whistle


Starsky
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 05:46 PM
(Remember, this is where I excel! )

Check w/your attorney first, but...

Why don't you just tell him...

"H, you obviously know that this isn't working. At this point, there is little to no chance of me moving past this trust issue. I plan on filing for divorce soon. We can't both live in this house anymore. We talked about this before, and you agreed that I should stay in our home w/the boys. I need you to find other living arrangements immediately. I understand that you have probably been counseled to stay in our home (abandonment), but I will not hold it against you. I will work w/you fairly on all financial and child visitation/support issues. Our being in the same house is just too stressful for everyone."

I think he needs to know that you are DONE. I think he needs to know that you will not keep his boys from him. I think he needs to know that you will be reasonable.

But, he also needs to know, that you are working in the best interest of you and your boys. FIRST
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 05:53 PM
Originally Posted By: mindfull
(Remember, this is where I excel! )

Check w/your attorney first, but...

Why don't you just tell him...

"H, you obviously know that this isn't working. At this point, there is little to no chance of me moving past this trust issue. I plan on filing for divorce soon. We can't both live in this house anymore. We talked about this before, and you agreed that I should stay in our home w/the boys. I need you to find other living arrangements immediately. I understand that you have probably been counseled to stay in our home (abandonment), but I will not hold it against you. I will work w/you fairly on all financial and child visitation/support issues. Our being in the same house is just too stressful for everyone."

I think he needs to know that you are DONE. I think he needs to know that you will not keep his boys from him. I think he needs to know that you will be reasonable.

But, he also needs to know, that you are working in the best interest of you and your boys. FIRST



I really like this approach. I think Autumn could even be willing to put in writing the "won't hold it against him" part, and should offer to do so.

ONLY thing I would change, is that I would add on to the end " . . . especially the boys," thusly:

Quote:
I will work w/you fairly on all financial and child visitation/support issues. Our being in the same house is just too stressful for everyone, especially the boys."
Posted By: finding nemo Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 05:53 PM
Yankees fan here, too! But going to the home opener will be lots of fun. Who are they playing?
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 07:13 PM
I really like this approach too, you really do excel at this MH.
I especially like the idea of putting it into writing, because that will go a long way with him.

I am very done with this marriage and know that I will proceed with a divorce. The issues we have are many and some are serious deal breakers for me. I have my doubts that all of them can/will be dealt with. For his sake I hope some day he does.

I feel good about my decision and know that it is right for me and for the boys. Feeling even stronger than yesterday. A little nervous for the conversation but know I will handle the best that I can.

Nemo they are playing the Miami Marlins on Monday smile
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 07:26 PM
Will have to pick my time appropriately, just got a text from H saying "Congrats on the tickets, hope you guys have fun"
Sadly I know that it was a dig and a poor me. I ignored it, which will irritate him further but I don't want to open that dialogue either.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 08:01 PM
Autumn -

I just have some experience to show you how to shortcut some legal costs!

And, I have a similar personality type that I had to deal with... It's funny... He fought everything. Lost on everything. Blew up like a damn baby in front of the Judge, etc... He was completely at my mercy at one point... I called him (after only speaking in txt and/or email for over a year), and offered to meet him someplace neutral to hash it out between us, w/out the lawyers.

Can I tell you? We ended up at about the same place that the Judge ruled. DUMB!

I think it was all in the approach. He didn't feel like he was being TOLD or ORDERED to do something. I knew I'd already won, so... I just asked him what he thought was fair in each of the items... Now, whenever I request something, he rarely puts up a fight about anything (except our darn marital home!). He agrees w/almost everything, and... asks me "almost" for permission on a lot of boys things. It's weird.

DUMB DUMB DUMB
Posted By: finding nemo Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 08:11 PM
I bet you and your boys are going to have a great time! Hope Philly wins!
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 08:17 PM
I really hope that an alien spacecraft lands in the centre of the field and releases all our spouses...

but that could just be wishful thinking...

grin
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 08:27 PM
Thanks Nemo!

Haha Kaffe, I hear you smile


Wow mindfull, thank you for that. I do agree that it seems so similar. That is very good advice. I really appreciate it.
Posted By: finding nemo Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 08:40 PM
That would be a dream come true Kaffe!! laugh
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/06/12 11:36 PM
Well we had the conversation when he got home tonight. He actually asked me if we were going to start MC next week and when I said no he said "why not?"

I explained that I felt that I can't see myself getting over the trust issue (he has not shown any remorse or work of any kind so not sure how I could)

He said "well isn't that what marriage counseling is for, we can't just throw away 20 years without MC." and I said well I think the straw that "threw away" 20 years was the EA that I discovered, especially with our past history.

He said "they were just a few stupid emails"

At this point I got quiet and listened, nodding and saying "i understand you feel that way"

We discussed financial and I assured him that I would work with him and knew that we both have the boys interest at heart. He said "i will never mess with you financially and I think you can agree that I didn't the last time we went through this"

I agreed with him (but I will still have everything go through my L to ensure my safety and the boys)

He said so what are you saying, and I responded "this marriage is very unhealthy and I don't feel that it should continue. I will be filing for divorce soon"

He brought up abandonment as the reason he can't move out now, and I told him I would put it in writing that I won't hold that against him. He said "i need to think" and went out to cut the lawn.

I feel good, and still strong. I feel a sense of relief which I think is good.

The boys went out with their friends and he just came to tell me he was "going out". I said "ok" with no additional questions.

I will go to visit with a friend for a bit just for a change of scenery.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/07/12 12:28 AM
sooo...

and forgive me because I am jumping the gun here...

why is it that you won't let him go see a MC?
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/07/12 02:11 AM
Autumn,

Prepare yourself for one of two things when he gets home (maybe both). He will either be angry/nasty from the outset, or he will try to sweet talk you into ML, and if you refuse him it could get nasty.

I could be wrong, but please BE PREPARED.

Starsky
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/07/12 02:33 AM
Kaffe, it's ok I understand why that would be confusing. He had multiple affairs and since finding out about this most recent one, he has had no remorse and simply said "it was just a few stupid emails" Now mind you the emails were explicitly offering sex to OW so not as minor as he would like them to be. With no remorse and wanting to blame me, I don't see the point in MC and have no interest in attending. He can talk to his IC and if was truly remorseful later I may rethink MC for a "new marriage"

Starsky, thank you. I agree with you and prepared for that. I just got a text that he is staying at a friends tonight so I am good for now. I will be leaving for my dad's in the morning so there is a reprieve for now.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/07/12 02:37 AM
I have to add one clarification. I have been asking for MC for a year and it was only after asking for a divorce that he asked for MC. He has been refusing for a year and as of monday texted he had a "miserable life". It just felt like a tactic and not real.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/07/12 02:57 AM
Right... I get it, Autumn...

But I will be perfectly honest here and say that I am reading the posts of a walk away spouse, right now...

too little, too late...
i deserve better...
i love him, but I'm not IN love with him... actually, i don't know that I even love him...
he never paid attention...
he's just using a tactic, playing some game, to win me back...
we'll be right back where we were...

I would not suggest you go to MC WITH him... if he wants to go... if he wants to fix the M... then let him do the work, in the same way that you were planning to let him do the work to get D...

Why are you deciding that YOU want to do the work for the D... HE is the one that left YOU... let HIM do the work, one way or the other...

and you... you get to work on you...

make sense?
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/07/12 07:21 AM
Sheesh, Kaffe. I was just beginning to like you!!! LoL

I won't answer FOR Autumn... But, I'll comment about the sitch...

Sometimes, you're just... Done... Being in limbo.

(ok, totally transferring my own sitch to this!!!)
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/07/12 08:08 AM
lol mindfull... grin Wait for it... wink

Where r u @, Autumn?
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/07/12 12:41 PM
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
Right... I get it, Autumn...

But I will be perfectly honest here and say that I am reading the posts of a walk away spouse, right now...

too little, too late...
i deserve better...
i love him, but I'm not IN love with him... actually, i don't know that I even love him...
he never paid attention...
he's just using a tactic, playing some game, to win me back...
we'll be right back where we were...

I would not suggest you go to MC WITH him... if he wants to go... if he wants to fix the M... then let him do the work, in the same way that you were planning to let him do the work to get D...

Why are you deciding that YOU want to do the work for the D... HE is the one that left YOU... let HIM do the work, one way or the other...

and you... you get to work on you...

make sense?


There are many ways why the comparison fails, Kaffe, but I'll just point out the BIGGEST one, from my perspective:

A WAS operates based purely on EMOTION: "I don't FEEL like staying marriage anymore," etc. Autumn, from what I've seen, has based her decisions on LOGIC and PRAYER.

Heck, if anything, her emotions are telling her to give him yet another chance.


Starsky
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/07/12 02:52 PM
I agree, starsky. That's where I am at, right now in my sitch.

I am done and I am very happy with my decision to move on.

BUT...

If my W said to me she wanted to try... now... FINALLY...

"Hey honey... go to town... Convince me that the M could be different. Go to MC if you want. Invite me if you want after a few sessions. I'm willing to see if those feelings come back, but I promise nothing."

I seen Autumn coming from a different place.

I still see pain and anger in her decision...

But I could be completely wrong and off base, there...
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/07/12 02:57 PM
Actually, what I see even more than pain and anger... or what comes out as pain and anger...

is I see BLAME coming through in her responses...

And that, for me, is a core aspect of WAS...
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/07/12 03:17 PM
I'd blame his ass, too. He's a mutiple time cheater. smile

But, I understand where you're coming from...
Posted By: mishka422 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/07/12 03:28 PM
I too understand where you are coming from Kaffe but there is a point where everyone has to decide when enough is enough.

After multiple affairs and multiple chances Autumn has obviously had enough. After having your trust obliterated so many times, you just have to know when it can't be rebuilt.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/07/12 03:44 PM
Yup and yup, mindfull and mishka... smile

I still wait to hear from Autumn... smile
Posted By: mishka422 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/07/12 04:26 PM
She went to her dad's so I'm sure she's not able to respond. I'm thinking Monday some time.
Posted By: ncl Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/07/12 11:53 PM
Autumn,

I've followed your threads from when you first started posting. I don't know that I've ever commented, but I have admired your strength and grace in difficult circumstances. As a former WAW and LBS with a 4-year history of some terrible and seemingly hopeless marital problems, I will say that I'm so very glad I gave my marriage every shot possible, even when I no longer wanted to. Six months into reconciliation done the right way (the DB day), life at home is better than I ever expected possible.
If you haven't taken the opportunity to consult with a DB coach, I strongly suggest it, considering the circumstances. There are many people here and in your personal life who care for you deeply, but the DB coaches and the moderators here are the professionals.
I wish you happiness and peace and the very best for you and your family. Take care, ncl
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/08/12 01:07 AM
Originally Posted By: ncl
There are many people here and in your personal life who care for you deeply, but the DB coaches and the moderators here are the professionals.
I wish you happiness and peace and the very best for you and your family. Take care, ncl



WHAT moderators? The last time this forum's moderator posted was February 26th, and the DB coaches don't help out on the threads either.

I don't see Autumn giving up on her marriage. I see Autumn saying that she's no longer willing to subject herself and her sons to her CURRENT marriage, in its current form.

And I think that's HEALTHY.


Starsky
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/08/12 02:00 AM
Amen
Posted By: ncl Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/08/12 02:17 AM
Starsky,

I absolutely agree....any of us who find ourselves here need to cast off the old marriage and take a stand for a new and improved union. That is the healthy and only way to go, which I learned the hard way by resisting for so long. It takes a lot of courage to do so...I know that first hand. I applaud Autumn and stand behind her 100% in saying she will not tolerate status quo any longer. She is certainly a woman of strength and integrity and is teaching her sons valuable lessons.

And it is unfortunate that the moderators aren't able to chime in on a regular basis. I don't know the reason for that, but I do imagine moderating the boards, particularly Newcomers, is a big task. I do think investing in a DB coach is a worthy investment.

I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents with Autumn, as I know what it's like to feel like one's spouse is in a hopeless situation and unable to change. No doubt the walkaway spouse has to want to change, and I'm grateful mine got to that point before it was too late (as we were well into the divorce process). I'm really grateful, too, that I found the courage and strength in large part from this board to focus on my own change and not try to rush a divorce. Also, in my case, separation was key (even though I fought it with my spouse in the beginning). I hate my kids had to go through that, but it taught both my husband and me a lot about what we were missing out on.

As with all the fine folks who make the effort to come to this site and post on it for themselves and others, I support Autumn in her decision and wish her the very best. She is obviously an intelligent, spiritual woman...a great wife, mother and lady in general. Again, I just wanted to share my story as one who has once felt helpless in my marriage and is now reconciling.

Have a blessed Easter, ncl
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/08/12 03:21 AM
Ncl. I like you. Thank you for sharing. smile
Posted By: chatterbug Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/08/12 06:56 AM
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: ncl
There are many people here and in your personal life who care for you deeply, but the DB coaches and the moderators here are the professionals.
I wish you happiness and peace and the very best for you and your family. Take care, ncl



WHAT moderators? The last time this forum's moderator posted was February 26th, and the DB coaches don't help out on the threads either.

I don't see Autumn giving up on her marriage. I see Autumn saying that she's no longer willing to subject herself and her sons to her CURRENT marriage, in its current form.

And I think that's HEALTHY.


Starsky


I agree with this.

The only thing her husband seems to learn is that its no biggie if he is caught.

If a person does not want to be there for his children and wife. Why should everyone else be held hostage.

That is not healthy.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/08/12 12:27 PM
Happy Easter to you, too, ncl. As we remind ourselves that He is, indeed, RISEN, we begin to realize that ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. In that, we can agree. smile


Starsky
Posted By: dbmod Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/10/12 12:37 AM
Originally Posted By: ncl
Autumn,

I've followed your threads from when you first started posting. I don't know that I've ever commented, but I have admired your strength and grace in difficult circumstances. As a former WAW and LBS with a 4-year history of some terrible and seemingly hopeless marital problems, I will say that I'm so very glad I gave my marriage every shot possible, even when I no longer wanted to. Six months into reconciliation done the right way (the DB day), life at home is better than I ever expected possible.
If you haven't taken the opportunity to consult with a DB coach, I strongly suggest it, considering the circumstances. There are many people here and in your personal life who care for you deeply, but the DB coaches and the moderators here are the professionals.
I wish you happiness and peace and the very best for you and your family. Take care, ncl



ncl- You've got it right, and I'm so happy that YOU are happy...and it appears your family is happy.



We're here to help...but it's not a fulltime job, and like Starsky mentioned, it's not a fulltime job for a moderator, and the coaches are phone coaches, not 'online coaches', although we see them once in awhile online here.


If you need help, click your 'notify' button.

Your longtime DBer's here, are very helpful. They are not professional. They are not always your BEST advice, a DB Coach IS always your BEST advice....I promise. Because they are SOLUTION ORIENTED, AND working with YOU PERSONALLY.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/10/12 01:16 PM
Good morning!! Sorry for the delay, I was visiting family for the holiday and for some reason I can't post from my phone. I can read the first page but can't move to other pages or login.

Kaffe I understand what you are saying and how it may appear but after years of this, and no hope for change in some areas I am done with this unhealthy marriage. Actually after some discussion last night, so is H. He actually sounds as if he read DB at times, it is amazing. He mentions a brand new healthy marriage, this old one will never work. Who knows, maybe he did read it. I can't seem to find my copy smile

There are some things that are still happening that are deal breakers for me, some things that MC can't fix if H is not willing to give them up. As of last night he mentioned he is not willing to give them up. I choose not to live with these behaviors or have my children live with them (they are very destructive).

We talked last night and he will be moving in with a friend at the end of the week. He agreed that he needs to give me space and realized that he needs it as well. His main concern was the kids and having access to them, and I agreed that it was very important so we are setting up a schedule in the next few days and sitting down with the boys together to discuss.

It was a very calm and respectful discussion. He admitted to not giving me space when I requested it, and asked if he can still have access to the house with my permission. He will never come over unannounced but would like to have access, maintain the yard, etc.

He asked if we can call this a trial separation, and keep MC on the table.

Thankfully for the boys, the friend he will be living with is only 5 miles away. I'm going to do some research to find some free tools to help with visitation, etc.

Thank you to everyone who responded the past few days, I have been reading and frustrated when I couldn't respond smile
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/10/12 01:34 PM
Autumn, this sounds like a great plan, and a great start! Having some formal agreements in place, and him being able to spend time with the boys (and helping out with the yard), with your permission, is good.

This gives you each your own space, and allows him time to decide if a new marriage with you is more important to him than his other desires. If he decides to do something about those, perhaps you guys can start dating each other, exclusively, for a period of 3-6 months and see where things go.

I think this is healthy . . . for all concerned.


Starsky
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/10/12 02:03 PM
I completely agree that this is a good start and healthier for all involved. It feels less like limbo and more like moving towards something.

He asked me last night why I felt the need to go full speed ahead to D, and I said that I didn't but he wasn't giving me space and I felt it may be my only option. By him moving out we can both work on ourselves and I am really looking forward to that. I do pray that he stops some of the unhealthy behaviors but that is out of my control.

In addition to setting the visitation with him, I think we will begin separating the finances as well. He mentioned concerns that I would "run up the credit card" and other financial worries (odd because he always said that I never spent money, so this is out of character).

If we separate them fairly without involving the attorneys yet, we will not have that hanging over our heads. I'm not sure how that will work yet, but we will at least start the discussion.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/10/12 02:14 PM
Autumn - I love this plan. You are a class act. smile
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/10/12 02:33 PM
Thanks!! I know that it may be temporary but for now I am really enjoying the respectful boundaries and cooperation. I truly hope we can continue this, but fully understand it may change at times. It's just an observation for today.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/10/12 03:07 PM
It was good to read your thoughts, Autumn.

It sounds different than your last posts on the subject...

So a trial separation? Sounds good.

Deal breakers? Sure, I know what my deal breakers are...

And going into ANY new R... regardless of who that person is... those things would be important to me...

And IF that person did not have those characteristics... regardless of who that person was... even if it was my W... "fixed"... for lack of a better term... why would I say, "no!" to my W? Just because she wears the same face as the person whom I did not like in the past? Who DID have the deal breakers...

I would try to be as fair to any new suitors... regardless of what their name was...

Hope that makes sense...

You sound more centred... good to see...
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/10/12 03:36 PM
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
It was good to read your thoughts, Autumn.

It sounds different than your last posts on the subject...

So a trial separation? Sounds good.

Deal breakers? Sure, I know what my deal breakers are...

And going into ANY new R... regardless of who that person is... those things would be important to me...

And IF that person did not have those characteristics... regardless of who that person was... even if it was my W... "fixed"... for lack of a better term... why would I say, "no!" to my W? Just because she wears the same face as the person whom I did not like in the past? Who DID have the deal breakers...

I would try to be as fair to any new suitors... regardless of what their name was...

Hope that makes sense...

You sound more centred... good to see...



That's a great way to put it, KD!! grin


Starsky
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/10/12 04:26 PM
That makes a lot of sense Kaffe, thanks so much. Yes I feel very centered. I am so incredibly lucky to have a good support system both online and IRL as I am going through this. I only hope that H will lean on his support system too, he has been shutting his family out but hopefully this move will change that. Not in my control but my wish for him.
Posted By: finding nemo Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/10/12 06:25 PM
Autumn,

I am so glad that you have reached some peace. I think that might have to be my goal for the future!

{{{Hugs}}}
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/10/12 07:31 PM
Thanks Nemo. I wish that for you, we all deserve peace smile
Posted By: Fergie Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/10/12 11:16 PM
Autumn,

Good for you!

You are handling this with poise and grace.

smile

--Fergie
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/11/12 12:31 PM
Thanks Fergie, that is my goal smile

Tonight is the night that we talk to the boys. We had another discussion last night and it was calm and respectful. He thanked me for it this morning as he was leaving for work.

We are telling them "I'm sure its no surprise that we have been dealing with some issues for some time now. We have decided that the best way to handle them is to live apart for now, to allow each other some space. We still love each other but can't live in the same house right now. Dad will be at Uncle E's house and will be available to you whenever you want. We are both working hard to keep your lives as normal as possible with sports, etc"

H and I agreed that he will come here every other weekend to stay since there is no place for him to have the kids at his friends house. It is best to keep them in their home. I will make plans to leave every other weekend to give them that time.

During the week, he can take them fishing, golfing, to the boat for a bbq. They have options and he plans to see them one night each week in addition to his every other weekend.

We still have to discuss some details but I feel like we are doing a pretty good job so far.

He admitted that as much as he will miss the house and day to day, he feels relieved with our decision to separate. I do as well. I don't think we've talked this openly and honestly in years.

He took the day off on Friday to get the boat ready for the water. He will wait for the kids to leave for school and move out that morning. This will be my weekend with the boys. I plan to be around as much as possible in case they need me, but give them space if they just need each other.
Posted By: mishka422 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/11/12 12:51 PM
That sounds like an excellent plan. You are handling this so well!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/11/12 12:58 PM
Thanks Mishka! I don't know who this person is, but I sure do like her smile The real me is peeking her head out finally!
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/11/12 01:09 PM
Okay. This post just gave me the LoL I needed to get my lazy butt out of bed, and face the day!
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/11/12 02:29 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
Thanks Mishka! I don't know who this person is, but I sure do like her smile The real me is peeking her head out finally!



I think she's pretty awesome. whistle whistle whistle


Starsky
Posted By: chatterbug Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/11/12 03:26 PM
Yay coming out of the LBS fog. laugh
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/11/12 03:28 PM
Well I am coming out of the LBS fog, I know this is true. But I also think the three of you directly above nudged me a bit, and I thank you for that. I thank all who supported me very much but you three are definitely not hesitant to tell me like it is, and I needed that. smile
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/11/12 05:24 PM

Imagine that. smirk
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/11/12 05:53 PM
So I had an appointment with my physician this morning. He was treating me with AD and knew a little about my sitch. My entire family has been going to him for a LONG time.

So this morning he asked how things are going and an update, so I told him that we were telling the boys tonight and separating on Friday.

He referred me to an IC that can help me more and really sat and listened to me. He is a fatherly type, I really like him.

When I explained the sitch and the deal breakers that were broken, he said that H was exhibiting signs of depression for sure and suspected bipolar which was surprising but I guess not totally out there.

He said it sounds like he is hitting rock bottom or at least close, and I said "I sure hope he doesn't go any lower than this" Self medicating with alcohol and substances is not ok. He said he doesn't want a dr tossing AD's at him but yet he is still self medicating, he can't see it.

He agreed that I am doing the right thing by asking him to move out temporarily and asked me to keep the boys safe at all times, which of course I will.

He asked me if I plan to reconcile, counsel, or divorce. I said that I am taking it day by day, working on me and the boys and not thinking that far. He said that sounds like a good plan and wants to see me again in a month.

I feel like he is one more extension to my support system.

I had to take the kids in this afternoon, they both have upper respiratory infections, and he said "you seem good" It is when I am with the kids, they make me laugh and really keep my spirits up.

I've never allowed myself to be open to support and I am so glad that I am over that now, It is not weak to need support. We all do from time to time smile
Posted By: Valeska19 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/11/12 06:24 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
I've never allowed myself to be open to support and I am so glad that I am over that now, It is not weak to need support. We all do from time to time smile


I can so relate to this. As my mother told me... one day when I said.. "but I need to be stronger"...

..she replied.

"No you NEED to allow people to love you. Don't rob them of the gifts and blessings they WANT to give you".

Love my mom for that.

We are meant to support and be supported by others. That is how we were designed.

Keep up the good work!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/11/12 06:28 PM
Your mom is one smart lady Val, and so are you!
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/11/12 07:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
Your mom is one smart lady Val, and so are you!



. . . and your doctor sounds like a very wise and kind man. smile


I'm really glad you have him on your team. grin


Starsky
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/12/12 12:46 PM
I agree with you Starsky, he is a very wise, kind man. I know he cares because he doesn't need my chart in front of him to remember or ask. When I take the boys in, he is always asking how I am doing. It is nice.

So we talked to the boys last night. It was difficult but I think overall it went well. H asked me to start and wasn't jumping in, so I looked at him and he jumped in too.

He got very emotional and slightly dramatic, and I was worried it would make it harder on the boys. They don't have any patience for drama

After talking a bit, we asked them if they wanted to say anything or if they had questions. They didn't. They said that they aren't surprised because they have heard us. I explained "and that is exactly why we ALL need this break". They nodded.

H continued and I suggested that everything was said and it was now repeating, and we should let them process. He agreed.

I felt a huge sense of relief and went to relax. H came in and rubbed my shoulder and said "are you ok". I told him that I am fine. I think he wanted to talk about how he is feeling but I just didn't have it in me.

We are finalizing financial aid for S17 and taxes this week, he moves out tomorrow. I have the boys this weekend.

I am feeling incredibly good today. I have plans to do some spring cleaning and buying a new mattress and bedding this weekend. The mattress is old and sinks in the middle. It is just time. Really looking forward to the weekend.
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/12/12 12:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
I am feeling incredibly good today. I have plans to do some spring cleaning and buying a new mattress and bedding this weekend. The mattress is old and sinks in the middle. It is just time. Really looking forward to the weekend.


Very happy for you Autumn considering the circumstances. Enjoy your weekend!
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/12/12 01:23 PM
Get really girly bedding!!!!! smile
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/12/12 01:23 PM
Thanks SIAS! I'm sure I will still have tough days so I am just trying to appreciate the good ones when they are here smile
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/12/12 02:10 PM
Originally Posted By: mindfull
Get really girly bedding!!!!! smile



AGREE!!!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/12/12 04:54 PM
Good call and I am going to go tomorrow to get it. I work from my home office and plan to give him some space while he is moving out tomorrow, so it is the best time to get new bedding.

H told his sister this morning about the separation. He also told her that his drinking is directly affecting this decision and he thinks he has a problem. He was encouraging her to maintain her relationship with me and she told him that she loves me very much.

Ironically she also shared that she was in a very similar position with her H 2 years ago. We noticed that he quit drinking but never knew the backstory. It turns out that it was very similar to ours.

Last night he visited our friends next door who rent from us, to discuss this. He didn't want any awkwardness when he was here on his weekends. She told me that he used the word alcoholic, which I've never heard him say before.

I'm really glad he seems to be seeking support, at least from his sister.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/12/12 05:42 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
So I had an appointment with my physician this morning. He was treating me with AD and knew a little about my sitch. My entire family has been going to him for a LONG time.

So this morning he asked how things are going and an update, so I told him that we were telling the boys tonight and separating on Friday.
---
When I explained the sitch and the deal breakers that were broken, he said that H was exhibiting signs of depression for sure and suspected bipolar which was surprising but I guess not totally out there.

He said it sounds like he is hitting rock bottom or at least close, and I said "I sure hope he doesn't go any lower than this" Self medicating with alcohol and substances is not ok. He said he doesn't want a dr tossing AD's at him but yet he is still self medicating, he can't see it.


I said that I am taking it day by day, working on me and the boys and not thinking that far. He said that sounds like a good plan and wants to see me again in a month.

I feel like he is one more extension to my support system.


I've never allowed myself to be open to support and I am so glad that I am over that now, It is not weak to need support. We all do from time to time smile


that lesson was among the 3 main, life changing lessons I got from the workshop.

It IS life changing and it also leads you to become a better supporter to others. IOW
I'm a much better listener b/c I felt listened to...

I think "taking it day by day" is a great approach with an over all goal of growth and working on you, in mind for the long run.

Autumn I don't know all the dealbreakers your h has but I will just attach the same signficance to them as I would to my own. I accept that they are bad news dealbreakers.

If I saw no signs or chance of change, I'd move forward AND

b/c I'm a DBer I'd be open to seeing if he does any of the work, or all of it, that he needs to do. THEN I'd check my heart and head and be as open as I could be...

We know He wasn't doing the work with you both IN the house. But bear in mind the doctor's point too.

What if, just what if, your h has a real medical problem

AND GOT HELP FOR IT? Think about it IF it happens.

I don't mean to get you off track.


But my late BIL acted out of character for several months and got really goofy and erratic with my sister. We wondered if he was on drugs or just became an a$$. She thought of leaving him b/c he would not go to counselling. She was at her wit's end.

One day he collapsed and had a seizure. Turns out He had a brain tumor.
(I learned that 20% of brain tumor patients present with psych issues...)

not saying that your h has a tumor!!!


I am just saying that I'm so glad my sister didn't leave him. IF he had not had the seizure, which lead to the CAT scan -and the treatments, I don't know what would have happened.

So He got accepted into a new protocol for tumors and he had brain surgery (five time, I swear) and got chemo and radiation, and lived 11 years, about 10 of those years - were good ones, once he had the surgery.

And last but not least, in sickness and in health...



I am not trying to guilt you and I think you have been through a lot already. And even if your h does have a medical problem, it doesn't mean you stick it out no matter what.

IF my BIL had a tumor that made him violent, my sister would have been right to leave. (Though I'd like to think she'd have kept him on her insurance)

If your h has a medical issue

AND he gets NO help for it,

all we really "know" is, you are allowed to be happy either way...


Plus I think your h is having a spiritual crisis too- and those are hardest to treat but then again, maybe the most amenable to miracles.

Look where you are today if you forgot that miracles do happen.

I am so glad you have the support system you have. BTW, 2 friends of mine from childhood are going to EE this month. And so it goes/grows.

((( )))
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/12/12 07:17 PM
Thanks 25! Yes I definitely learned that at EE as well. In fact I have my support group tonight smile

I absolutely get what you are saying. We both said that this separation is about each of us working on our own stuff. He knows what his stuff is and he knows the deal breakers. They are fairly big and dangerous for my children. He is fully aware of what needs to be done and the rest is on him smile

I've not ruled out a medical issue, and hope he gets to the doctor to check into that. For now he refuses any AD unless his IC suggests it at some point, and continues to self medicate ( a deal breaker)

One day at a time is a great way to take this, and life in general smile

I am so glad to hear that your friends are going. I've shared the next workshop with some friends and hope that they will go. I have my name on the list to be on team but it hasn't been selected yet. Under the circumstances I will probably have to wait until next time, since the boys may need me. I will go to the graduation dinner though smile

Thanks for your insight, it is always appreciated and you make some very good points.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/12/12 11:47 PM
fyi

Eric/Joanne have the contact info. Very glad you're going to the graduation. If it were not so far for me and this month, I'd be going too. Dang...maybe I can. It's a very dear friend. The other one is a DBer who I only know from here, like you.

Once you have a bit more time in the community, you'll get there on team. It's a great refresher even though you are there for the participants, you can't help it, you'll feel renewed.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/13/12 04:20 AM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
...continues to self medicate ( a deal breaker)


Funny, in going through this sitch for myself and looking forward at things that might be a deal breaker for me, I didn't even think about that one...

While I have no problem with the use of alcohol, yes... I am very sensitive to the abuse of alcohol in the many forms... yes, that IS (it has been in the past) and will continue to be a deal breaker for me...

I hope your H gets the help he needs...
Posted By: Truegritter Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/13/12 06:03 AM
Originally Posted By: 25
b/c I'm a DBer I'd be open to seeing if he does any of the work, or all of it, that he needs to do. THEN I'd check my heart and head and be as open as I could be...


Ah yes...

This is the rub.

25 has given wisdom and the key to your salvation but it is balancing on the razor's edge.

The key to your salvation is your open mind and your REaction to his actions.

Actions?

They are the past.

What is important is the what is happening now and the future that YOU write based on your choices.

Look at your partner.

Hard and starkly.

Then forgive them their trangressions they are only walking a path same as you.

Then watch. From afar. detached.

See what they can do without you.

If

If

They show you a hint of what you think is progress...

Well

Then it's up to you.

And until it is still ALL up to you.

But be careful. Protect yourself. Be diligent and be purposeful.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/13/12 12:31 PM
Autumn. Meant to check in last night. How did the financial talk go?
Posted By: ncl Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/13/12 02:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
Originally Posted By: 25
b/c I'm a DBer I'd be open to seeing if he does any of the work, or all of it, that he needs to do. THEN I'd check my heart and head and be as open as I could be...


Ah yes...

This is the rub.

25 has given wisdom and the key to your salvation but it is balancing on the razor's edge.

The key to your salvation is your open mind and your REaction to his actions.

Actions?

They are the past.

What is important is the what is happening now and the future that YOU write based on your choices.

Look at your partner.

Hard and starkly.

Then forgive them their trangressions they are only walking a path same as you.

Then watch. From afar. detached.

See what they can do without you.

If

If

They show you a hint of what you think is progress...

Well

Then it's up to you.

And until it is still ALL up to you.

But be careful. Protect yourself. Be diligent and be purposeful.


^^^^^^^ great wisdom!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/14/12 04:10 PM
Thank you truegritter, that is very wise smile I keep coming back to re-read that.

Well so far so good, with a few down moments. H took the day off on Friday to cut the grass, pack up and go while the kids weren't here.

I kept busy with my spring cleaning and was out of the house running a few errands. He waited for me to get back before leaving. He asked me for a hug, started to cry and when I was pulling back from the hug he held me there and said "this is not over"

I told him to have a nice weekend and would see him on Tuesday.

Then I found out that S15 had to be at the ball field for opening day this morning. When H texted I responded with time for the parade and he agreed to be there. He asked if he could park in the driveway (that was odd)

We both went to support S15 and S17 was working. It was pleasant. When it was over, he asked to come use the restroom. I went to get changed for the gym and he commented that I looked good. He leaned in to whisper "i love you". I just smiled and said "have a nice weekend, enjoy the weather"

So during my spring cleaning I went out and got all new bedding, I love it!! Today I have a few errands to run, and may catch a movie tonight if the kids are busy with friends. Tomorrow I am excited that a few of my close girlfriends are coming over for brunch, one just had a birthday and the other just got engaged. I'm really looking forward to it.

H asked me what I was going to tell them if they ask where he is, and before I could answer he said "oh yeah, i will be at the flyers game so just say that" He is trying to hide it and has only told a handful of people, asked the kids to keep it quiet.

I explained the boys, while we don't want to shout if from the rooftops, if they have a trusted friend they want to talk to, it is ok. They need to talk too. A bunch of their friends have been in their shoes.

Tomorrow morning is church before my girlfriends come over, so far its a good weekend!
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/14/12 07:04 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
Thank you truegritter, that is very wise smile I keep coming back to re-read that.

Well so far so good, with a few down moments. H took the day off on Friday to cut the grass, pack up and go while the kids weren't here.

I kept busy with my spring cleaning and was out of the house running a few errands. He waited for me to get back before leaving. He asked me for a hug, started to cry and when I was pulling back from the hug he held me there and said "this is not over"

I told him to have a nice weekend and would see him on Tuesday.

Then I found out that S15 had to be at the ball field for opening day this morning. When H texted I responded with time for the parade and he agreed to be there. He asked if he could park in the driveway (that was odd)

We both went to support S15 and S17 was working. It was pleasant. When it was over, he asked to come use the restroom. I went to get changed for the gym and he commented that I looked good. He leaned in to whisper "i love you". I just smiled and said "have a nice weekend, enjoy the weather"

So during my spring cleaning I went out and got all new bedding, I love it!! Today I have a few errands to run, and may catch a movie tonight if the kids are busy with friends. Tomorrow I am excited that a few of my close girlfriends are coming over for brunch, one just had a birthday and the other just got engaged. I'm really looking forward to it.

H asked me what I was going to tell them if they ask where he is, and before I could answer he said "oh yeah, i will be at the flyers game so just say that" He is trying to hide it and has only told a handful of people, asked the kids to keep it quiet.

I explained the boys, while we don't want to shout if from the rooftops, if they have a trusted friend they want to talk to, it is ok. They need to talk too. A bunch of their friends have been in their shoes.

Tomorrow morning is church before my girlfriends come over, so far its a good weekend!


And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is how it's DONE. whistle
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/14/12 07:13 PM
I love my smart friend
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/14/12 07:46 PM
She makes us look good, Mindfull. cool
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/14/12 07:57 PM
Haha thank you smile I have some very good support, that's for sure. I'm so thankful I found this place, it really did change my life.

I have to say that I am enjoying my boys so much right now. There is so much peace in the home and not a stitch of tension. I don't remember the last time it felt this way. I'm really thrilled about that, at a minimum. My S15 was telling me stories and catching me up on what is going on with him, his friends, the gym this afternoon and his plans tonight. He is somewhat of a quiet kid and just had so much to say. When I agreed to drive him to and from his friends, he hugged my neck and said 'you are the best, thank you so much'

S17 had a rough day. He is a lifeguard and they have to re-certify every year. He is having trouble passing one of the tests and came home very grumpy. I just gave him space and actually DB'd him for lack of a better term. It really worked. By the time he was leaving he was calm, almost happy. I told him that we can bbq for dinner when he gets back, which will be a great way to connect before they both go out with friends.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/15/12 02:27 PM
Had some sad feelings last night and was surprised by them. I think I got so used to feeling strong for the past few days that the "how did I get here" feeling blindsided me a bit. I was assured by a DB friend that it is natural and will pass, and the strength comes back.

I can honestly say that it is back this morning smile after a good nights sleep.

H texted me this morning, a good friend of ours passed away suddenly and he wanted me to know the services were in the paper this morning.

He asked me a few times via text "how are you" and I responded to texts about the kids only and kept it upbeat.

He then said "i noticed you are not answering the question about how you are, does that mean you are not ok"

I responded "I have a very good support system should I need them, and I hope to not need them often :)"

He said "thats good, and you can talk to me you know..if you want"

I responded "I have to finish cleaning and making salad for my girls brunch, enjoy the rest of your weekend. The kids are around later if you want to reach them"

He said "ok have a good day"

I was talking to my father earlier and have some concerns about letting him come here every other weekend. I think it may be confusing for the kids as they do their own thing, working and friends. It may be a chance for H to come here with drinking buddies and I don't want the kids exposed to that anymore. He makes S17 pick up S15 because he can't drive, gets belligerent with S17 and slurs his words. I am having trouble with it.

My fathers suggestion was to talk to him this week about it, he is only 5 miles up the road. Why can't he pick them up for the day, dinner, whatever they want. He can have both days, but let the kids sleep at home and he can sleep at his friends or the boat. S17 drives so I won't have to worry about them getting in a car with him. I have a few days to figure out how to approach it. He is coming here Tuesday to bbq with kids and needs to go over some paperwork with me.
Posted By: Truegritter Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/15/12 05:56 PM
Autumn

You sound like you are getting there. At least the day to day roller coaster stuff is behind you.

Your H is confused and also deep down he knows his choices a harmful to you and his family and ultimately himself.

You stepping away from fixing his guilt for him will make him deal with it directly if he ever chooses to do so.

Until that day. For you there is nothing to talk about.

keep stepping forward. You are making wonderful progress from what I can see.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 10:36 AM
Thanks TG!!

I had a small setback as we transitioned to separation this weekend. H was here on Friday as he was packing and said "it really hurts when you don't respond to my texts" I said "I always do if they are about the kids" and I guess I thought to myself, it may be a 180 to listen and respond occasionally. I was wrong

It was too confusing and somewhat led H to believe that things were ok, started sending pictures of the boat that he just dropped in this weekend, a picture of his finger wearing his wedding ring, and random small talk. He went to the Flyers playoff game and was sending pictures. It was too much.

He has been telling everyone that we are just having a few bumps. His sister called me yesterday and said "marriage is hard, you two will be ok" LOL I can only imagine what she was told, I can guarantee you that OW was not included. I am not out to embarass him but he is making it look like I am doing this over nothing or over reacting. Ugh.

Last night I texted him that we need to discuss a few things and really settle them, that includes visitation (I don't want him here every other weekend, it is too disruptive and confusing for the boys) Until he gets a place to take them, we will have to figure out an alternative.

We also need to finalize finances, if we need a mediator we will get one. His suggestion is to do the bills together every other week. I originally agreed but we need a cleaner break than that, and hopefully we can do it together.

I asked him to keep our discussions to email for now, and plan to go darker than ever.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 11:33 AM
Autumn.

I was a bit worried about this. From the moment he uttered "trial separation" it gave him an opening to start doing things he thought you would want, and not for the benefit of his person (first).

I completely understand your concern re: visitation in the home... Probably better than anyone else... (here's the but) but, is it possible to explain the concerns/boundary, and tell him you're agreeing to try it for a week or two. I just know how much better it is for the kids(since his residence is temp). You know his ability to control the Party Dad lifestyle... So, just my thoughts w/out a full picture...
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 01:33 PM
Well angry H is back today, he has been blowing up my phone with calls and texts

He is saying that my support group is bad for me, they are filling my head with nonsense.

What happened, what changed, we were on a good path last week and he doesn't understand my 180 (to keep contact to finances and kids). He said "you tricked me into moving out" Accused me of sending him a threatening email, when the truth is that I emailed to offer him my hotel room on our business trip in 3 weeks and I will stay with my project manager. If I didn't give it up he would have to stay across the street. He was hoping to not let on at all and stay in the same room with 2 beds. He said "this support group is bad news"

When I didn't respond to his texts he texted "I don't want to fight, I thought we were in a good place. What happened"

I know now that he misunderstood my niceness re: the kids and being flexible. He had no intention of doing any work and was "waiting me out" like he did before.

I need to go as dark as possible now. My only concern is that he can legally show up here, and move back in. That would be so bad for the kids. I think I may need to call my attorney this morning, just waiting for her to open.
Posted By: mishka422 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 01:51 PM
Oh goodness. So sorry Autumn. frown

Having read your posts for a while I had a bad feeling he would start twisting things again. Mine did the same thing for a while and insisted my support systems were filling my head with nonsense and turning me against him.

Be as dark as you can, talk to your attorney, and BREATHE.....
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 01:54 PM
Autumn - '
Ignore my above post... after our convo.

Take the advice of your L. I'm here.
Posted By: labug Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 02:09 PM
lonely>guilt>shame>anger>self-medicate>drunk>oh yeah, it's all her fault, let me dump it all on her.

quack, quack, quack.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 02:17 PM
Originally Posted By: mindfull
Autumn - '
Ignore my above post... after our convo.

Take the advice of your L. I'm here.



Agree with this. ^^^


He's cycling wildly now, as we knew he would. Just came later than we thought, and not at a time when we expected it, that's all.


Autumn, you have thrown him off of his power equilibrium, and -- assuming he's "being good" (with regard to using, and/or OW) -- you have also separated him from at least 2 of his 3 known "fixes" of choice.

Did you REALLY expect that he would simply "go along" with that? I didn't.


Starsky
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 02:19 PM
LOL labug, ok you made me laugh a little with the quacking. It is so true.

He emailed to say he is changing is flight to avoid flying together, he will take me up on the room change and we need to discuss separating finances when I am ready.

He also said he prefers to stay here every other weekend, as we discussed. It is clear by his tone that he is saving his emails for an attorney, as he keeps saying "as we discussed"

I am not responding and waiting for a call back from my attorney
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 02:23 PM
Good idea, Autumn. Wouldn't be a bad idea to -- at least once -- reply something like "Well, it's safe to say that we both have a much different interpretation of what we discussed and agreed to, but okay" (or some such) -- just in case he is saving these for legal purposes.

Also wouldn't be a bad idea to occasionally try to "diffuse" with something nice to one of his texts, like "I can see you're trying; I do hope things eventually work out for both of us" or "I'm not your enemy, despite what you think -- I'm just trying to do what I think I need to do right now, what's best for me and the kids", etc.


Starsky
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 02:26 PM
Great suggestions Starsky. I now realize how carefully I need to phrase things, as he takes my niceness as vulnerability and his manipulation has always worked in the past. It makes him very angry that its not working and 'darn those people for filling my head'. I keep shaking my head, this is not how I expected to start my week.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 02:29 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
Great suggestions Starsky. I now realize how carefully I need to phrase things, as he takes my niceness as vulnerability . . .



I know. That's why I'm trying to come up with phrasing that is both:

a) civil, even nice

b) still lets him know that nothing has changed regarding your boundaries (the "no matter what happens" part)
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 02:37 PM
True, and maintaining my boundaries is new for him so it can cause a reaction.

Turns out my attorney is not in at all today, left a message and found out that I won't hear from her until tomorrow. Wonderful!
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 02:38 PM
Autumn

1-Reminder: Save ALL txt's and emails. ( copy and paste txt's into iPhone notepad as you get them, or email to yourself)
2-Mske sure you have the one re:stop badgering you.
3-First question to L is how to handle marital funds to retain her.
4-At the very least, secure your accounts to require double signatures to withdrawal funds (large amounts).
5-Find out how to protect yourself from him opening new credit jointly.
6-Get legal advice on the visitation.

I have to say. You sound mad and a bit thrown off guard, but you are completely reasonable and emotionally solid.

You've got this.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 02:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves


Turns out my attorney is not in at all today, left a message and found out that I won't hear from her until tomorrow. Wonderful!


Talk to their Office Manager and/or her Sectetary re:funds to secure your retainer. Their secretaries, often times, know almost as much as them.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 02:40 PM
I'm concerned about your accounts.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 02:40 PM
Originally Posted By: mindfull


You've got this.



Yep. smirk


Oh, and YOUR counselor may be out today, but THE Counselor, isn't. I think you will find that He is 24/7/365. He is, mighty God, Counselor, King of King and Lord of Lords! grin


Starsky
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 02:42 PM
Originally Posted By: mindfull
I'm concerned about your accounts.



I thought this had already been done. Firewalling accounts when one spouse is wayward is ALWAYS one of the very first steps that is wise (and one of the few subjects that gets near-100% consensus from posters of various ideological stripes). Funds are most vulnerable after you make any sort of a stand.

Throw in any known substance abuse? Concern goes up 5-fold, at least.

Protect yourself.


Starsky
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 02:44 PM
Originally Posted By: Starsky309


Oh, and YOUR counselor may be out today, but THE Counselor, isn't. I think you will find that He is 24/7/365. He is, mighty God, Counselor, King of King and Lord of Lords! grin


Starsky


Thanks, I needed that reminder!! You are absolutely right. In the meantime I am putting my day to good use, as I can't concentrate and took the day off. I will talk to our banks re: securing the accounts without freezing them. I also have an appt with my gyn for a full std panel. 20 years..I shouldn't have to do this, but it is what it is.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 02:50 PM
Starsky.

We talked this am, and I gave her ideas regarding the accounts they have, and possibilities for headaches.

Autumn.

I'm going to head something off at the pass here... (You know some of this).

I didn't handle anything financial in my prior marriage. I only partially listened to my L about securing my finances. It cost me (at least half) of $50k that xH pulled from a line of credit on our marital home.

I only partially listened/acted on advice from my L because of fear. I feared I was over-reacting, feared I wasn't making a good choice, feared xH would blow a gasket, etc...

Don't let that fear be part if your movement. Secure you home and finances for you and boys.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:03 PM
Thanks mindfull, I agree with you 100% and need to be sure to not react due to fear. I am making conscious decisions in the best interest of the kids and I, and that is all that I can do. I am not responsible for his reaction or tantrums.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:04 PM
Autumn, I know you believe this path is good and right for you.

I hope you understand that the path you are on leads to D.

As anyone points that may not be the case, I submit it IS.

Unless you are following this path for some other reason. ie. As a form of manipulation.

So let me stress: If you are following this path, then follow this path and D. Because you are done. Now, and forever. And do it, rather than stretching it out because you are still unsure.

I think you believe you are done.

I have no doubt that once things are said and done and you've filed, you WILL have doubts in the future. A year from now... 5 years from now...

And that is regardless of whether you find someone new.

Not trying to change your mind by scaring you or putting doubt in your mind. Just saying what is likely to happen. We see it very often with people IRL and here...

BTW: I've been keeping communication with my W strictly in email (although there is still verbal comm during kid exchanges). That has not stopped my W from sneaking in all sorts of non-kid, non-finance content into the emails. Including spew. This is at least nine months into this process and it still happens. Again, I'm just using myself as an example, but we see this over and over again in other sitches in this forum.

I support you in your path. I just want you to know that at least in my case, nothing has changed. I had hoped, at first. And I had decided in Nov. 10 that this was what I wanted. And vacillated back and forth since then.

Nothing has changed. And it really is at a point of not IF... but who will pull the trigger, first. The only reason I'm holding back is because I do want to be in a slightly better financial position, so that I can afford the child support that will be court assigned once D is processed.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Starsky309

I thought this had already been done. Firewalling accounts when one spouse is wayward is ALWAYS one of the very first steps that is wise (and one of the few subjects that gets near-100% consensus from posters of various ideological stripes). Funds are most vulnerable after you make any sort of a stand.

Throw in any known substance abuse? Concern goes up 5-fold, at least.

Protect yourself.


Starsky


With him still in the house I wasn't sure I felt safe to do it, but now that he's moved out I fully intend to today. And yes with the substance abuse, it is more of a concern
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:09 PM
Thanks for that Kaffe, I really do appreciate it.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:15 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
I also have an appt with my gyn for a full std panel. 20 years..I shouldn't have to do this, but it is what it is.



I'm sorry, Autumn, I really am. I had to do this too, and it [censored], no other way to put it. Having my GP -- who is a FEMALE doctor -- stick something up my you-know-what, for we-all-knew-why, was one of the most humiliating things I've ever had to do.

But it was also one of the smartest.


Starsky
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:19 PM
You are welcome, of course.

My only concern is that I don't think you are solid in your decision to D, yet.

Are you allowed to change your mind? Of course.

But setting THIS ball in motion is the same as a LBS coming here and setting time lines.

I will give this M another chance... 90 days... a couple months... a year...

I still see you vacillating...

As we have seen posted before on this forum...

Is this the bridge you want to die on?
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:23 PM
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
Autumn, I know you believe this path is good and right for you.

I hope you understand that the path you are on leads to D.

As anyone points that may not be the case, I submit it IS.



It wasn't for me, Kaffe. My wife and I reconciled, after I used tactics even stronger than I'm allowed to post here, and last Friday we celebrated our 27th wedding anniversary and since our reconciliation 5 years ago we also celebrated the birth of our first grandchild.

I strongly disagree with the statement" this path leads to divorce," but I WOULD agree with you that "you need to be prepared for the eventuality that it will."

Autumn has already stated that her husband is refusing to give up behaviors that SHE thinks puts her family at risk, as well as himself, and that she's NOT OKAY with these -- they are her Boundaries of Personal Integrity.

I think we should trust her assessment, respect her privacy in not pushing for more on what those behaviors are, and support her in her current efforts, however we can.

I do know we both (all) want what's best for her, and her boys.


Starsky
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:29 PM
I know that I am butting heads with you, mindfull and others in this, Starsky... grin

And that's my purpose here... So... cat's out of the bag, as it is...

I do want to know, though...

Did you do it as a tactic...? As a strategy to get your W to change her mind?

Or did you do it because you were done and were moving on...

And your W came around... convinced you to give it another chance...?

Even though you really, really, really were not expecting that...?
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:35 PM
I did it because -- like Autumn -- my wife was unrepentently doing something that violated my own personal morals. After giving her several chances to change her destructive course (she refused), I finally, sadly, decided to file for D in order to protect myself and our kids.

Fortunately, we were subsequently able to turn things around, she ended her affair, and we began the long slog of reconciling our marriage.

Filing for divorce should NEVER be used as a "tactic."


Starsky
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
I know that I am butting heads with you, mindfull and others in this, Starsky... grin

And that's my purpose here... So... cat's out of the bag, as it is...



That's OK. If we both agreed on everything, ONE of us wouldn't need to be here. grin


I just do think there comes a time when the poster makes their decision, that we should try to support them in it. I am VERY pro-marriage, and pray every day for Autumn (and a few others whom I counsel) to successfully reconcile their marriages. I still think she will, either through this, or, who knows, maybe they'll be one of those 20% who re-marry and have things be better than before. That's not in my hands, nor hers. Right now, I'm trying to -- in order:

1. Help protect Autumn and her sons;

2. Help build up Autumn so that SHE emerges this a better and stronger Autumn;

3. Help, if possible, restore her marriage.

Make no mistake: I'm pro-marriage, but my 1st concern when it comes to certain situations is for the well-being of the poster.


Starsky
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:42 PM
smile

I figured as much.

I never have read through your sitch, Starsky.

From as I read your description above, you actually did believe that your M was done. No matter how emotional it was... how much you did not want it... how much you may have been emotionally on both sides of the fence...

You actually believed... BELIEVED... that your M was about to end in a D...

I truly believe that is where everyone's mind should be when they file.

I am quite certain that is what Autumn is thinking...

I just want to be sure...

One can't really live... unless they know they are truly... already dead...

cool
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:43 PM
I need to butt heads w/someone today, anyhow. I'm crabby. LoL
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:45 PM
I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from Kaffe. There are some behaviors that are destructive and unhealthy that he will not give up. It is a boundary issue and I need to hold firm to it for the safety of myself and the boys. Trust me I don't take this lightly as I have been down this road before and know how hard it is. I really do appreciate your feedback, its good to hear.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:46 PM
smile Wel, I can be your butt head... lol!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:49 PM
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem

I truly believe that is where everyone's mind should be when they file.

I am quite certain that is what Autumn is thinking...

I just want to be sure...


Yes, I am quite certain. This M is unhealthy for all involved and quite over. I think he believes that too based on some exchanges via email.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:51 PM
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
smile

I figured as much.

I never have read through your sitch, Starsky.

From as I read your description above, you actually did believe that your M was done. No matter how emotional it was... how much you did not want it... how much you may have been emotionally on both sides of the fence...

You actually believed... BELIEVED... that your M was about to end in a D...

I truly believe that is where everyone's mind should be when they file.

I am quite certain that is what Autumn is thinking...

I just want to be sure...

One can't really live... unless they know they are truly... already dead...

cool


[edited by dbmod: outside links are not allowed]



You reminded me of that very powerful scene from that movie. I have seen it said that the "You're Already Dead" -- along with "The Stockdale Paradox" -- is actually the kind of place you have to get to, emotionally, in order to successfully fight for a marriage torn by infidelity and/or other forms of abuse.

I think I'd agree with that.


Starsky[i][/i]
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 03:55 PM
Wow powerful clip, thanks Starsky!
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 04:02 PM
smile

Yup, and that's exactly where my head is at for my sitch.

Maybe it is just me, this thread looks like D as a threat... or any of this... to an outsider... perhaps a newbie... could be perceived as a tactic...

"oh look, so and so threatened D and that worked. I should threaten D..."

I support you in your path Autumn, because it is the same as mine in that regard.

In my case, my W continues to interfere in my life, telling me what to do and how to do it and when to do it...

I can have no expectations, but there is a pattern... and patterns have a tendency to repeat themselves...

Unfortunately... until the pattern is stopped by the individual who is in control of it... it will continue... even if we D...

D will not stop your H's patterns...

Only YOU can stop being affected by those patterns...

protect yourself... I did...

But I have not filed D, yet...

I will only do that when I am ready... when there is a reason for me to do so...
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 04:04 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
Wow powerful clip, thanks Starsky!



Thanks.


Here's the Stockdale Paradox, which I like even better for DBing, because it captures my own blend of optimism and no-nonsense approach:


Stockdale then added:

"This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be."



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stockdale
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 04:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
smile

Yup, and that's exactly where my head is at for my sitch.

Maybe it is just me, this thread looks like D as a threat... or any of this... to an outsider... perhaps a newbie... could be perceived as a tactic...

"oh look, so and so threatened D and that worked. I should threaten D..."



I do think maybe this is "just you," Kaffe -- maybe your own triggers at work here? You wouldn't be the first. I would never, EVER suggest something as serious as filing for a divorce to be used as a tactic or even a strategy. I happen to take the Biblican view of wedding vows, for one thing, and that would never allow me to suggest such a thing.

I do hope I've cleared up my position on this.


Starsky
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 04:07 PM
uggg- - "Biblical." Darned can't-edit feature!!! mad
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 04:08 PM
Originally Posted By: Starsky309
I do think maybe this is "just you," Kaffe -- maybe your own triggers at work here?


Yup... that is certainly possible... smile
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 04:15 PM
Kaffee -

Oh, come on.

Now, I will butt your head...

NO one has said... "Hey, AL, come on... threaten that MF'er w/Divorce. That'll learn him! He'll come crying home..."

Autumn needs to prepare for divorce.

She's communicated that she is much more worthy than some multiple time cheating H.

She's communicated that she is much more worthy than some H who, at the very least, uses illegal drugs, and drinks too much (a lot).

She's also shown that she loves him, but can't be married to a man like this.

I'd be the first to applaud, and even fly out to hug the jerk if he turned this around...

But, chances are, he just will not.

And, in the meantime, THOSE OF US THAT HAVE TURNED OUR SITUATIONS AROUND FOR OURSELVES AND/OR OUR MARRIAGES, are offering advice of what WORKS.

I have a pet peeve.

And, I'll air it.

These boards are a great resource for a fan club.

The minute the fan club becomes a "reach out and help desk" and they, themselves, haven't turned around their own life... And, gotten out of limbo... I'm less than impressed.

DB has COACHES that can offer (fairly) learned advice.
The DB board has veterans that have turned their own lives around w/and without their marriages.
The DB board does NOT need a bunch of limbo wading members offering advice...

Cheering and supporting is great.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 04:18 PM
Autumn -

Carry on w/what you feel is your plan. smile

The background noise can get distracting.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 04:20 PM
I am not by any stretch using this as a tactic, that much I am very sure of. When H had his first A back in 1998 (ongoing for a year and half) I filed, we were a signature from D and reconciled. Sadly we didn't get the MC that was appropriate because the behaviors returned (both mine and his). Since that time, H has also added some very destructive and illegal behaviors that he has no intention of giving up, he has told me that.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Moving Right along Part 2 - 04/16/12 04:36 PM
I know what the trigger Starsky suggested above, is for me.

I want NO ONE to encourage me to D... regardless of the reasons...

EVER...
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