Hi, this is my first time posting. My husband and I are both in our early 30's. We have been together 6 years, married only 1.5 years. I thought we were happy, but we did have the typical relationship fights, mostly me nagging about him not cleaning, or finances. When we did have issues we would never really talk about them after. We'd just kind of be sick of fighting and make up. In September we found out his estranged father had passed away. He didn't want to talk about it, showed no emotions about it, etc. Then his company moved and this was a stressful time for him. They moved from the city to the suburbs (we also live in the suburbs, which has also come up as a point of unhappiness for him). Around January he started being cold to me. There was a palpable tension but I didn't know why. Finally I confronted him about it and he told me he was done with our relationship. He didn't love me anymore, he hated our house, he didn't want to be married, etc. I immediately scheduled us an appointment for a consultation with my company's mental health department so we could get a referral to a counselor. We went to the visit and I thought it was very eye opening. He talked about how he didn't like our house in the suburbs, how he didn't like that I didn't go out with my girlfriends as much anymore and I talked about how stressed I felt financially after buying a new car (he had said he was going to help me pay for it and then wasn't). We were referred to a marriage counselor and he was also referred to his own counseling. He never made an appointment. We went to one session with our new marriage counselor and she thought that we weren't ready for marriage counseling but instead he should go to a counselor and I would continue going to her for support. He started with his counselor and I continued to go to mine but things just kept going worse. At his counseling they talked about our marriage and I get the impression his counselor said if you aren't happy you should end it. I had gotten the impression he was referred to his own counselor to talk about his other issues: emotionally detaching from me, perhaps depression, the issues with his parent's marriage and his estranged father's death. Well, things continued to get worse throughout February. Every interaction we had was uncomfortable and I was so confused, we had been so happy before- best friends, a lot in common, our friends had merged, our families were supportive of our relationship, so I had no idea why the sudden change. Less than a year earlier I had run a marathon and he surprised me at the finish line with a trip we were leaving for the next day. How could all of that love just go away one day? How could he now claim he never loved me, we never had a good relationship,etc. Eventually things got so strained at home that I asked him to leave. He had told me things weren't changing and he wanted a divorce. A few days after he left we spoke again and decided he would stay at our house a few nights a week (he is staying with his mom). So we had been doing that but again with no positive changes. He would basically come home from work and avoid being around me. I felt like I was on a yo-yo. I was trying so hard and every time we discussed the issues something new he was unhappy would come up (for example, one day it would be we had nothing in common, then it would be he never loved me, then it would be we never had sex). I was reading all of these books, articles, websites, trying the things I would learn in counseling, trying to plan activities for us to do that we didn't have to have much conversation but could be together, wearing lingerie to spice up our sex life and nothing was working and he just seemed to be drifting further away. My counselor suggested asking him to leave completely so I could start to heal. I asked him to leave permanently and said we could meet back up in a month or so and see where we were at and see if marriage counseling might work. He seemed so relieved to be able to get away from me
During this conversation he really opened up. He said maybe his father's death had triggered something in him and that he felt like a changed person. Some of the changes were positive, more energy at work, but others were negative, like feeling very selfish. I felt positive that some time away would help him figure some things out. Then, this weekend I looked at our phone bill and found some text messages to a number I didn't recognize. It wasn't a local area code so it stood out. I obviously got suspicious (I had asked him before if he was having an affair, as this came so out of the blue and he said he wasn't). I called the number he had been texting with and it was a woman. She is a member of the consulting team that was hired when his company moved back in November. He had also been on the move team so that is obviously how they met. I confronted him about the texts (there were about 20 texts, the last one coming at 11:30pm on Saturday night) and he said they were just friends. When I said I was going to call her he freaked out. I called her anyways and left a heated message about how you don't text with a married man. She called me back and again said they are just friends. I looked her up online and it turns out she is 25 years old, I am 32, my husband 31. I am also much more attractive than her, which made me even angrier. He said that nothing has happened other than a few text messages, emails and occasionally lunch at work with other people. I know my husband is probably seeking out female attention as a distraction/some fun. I believe him that he didn't physically cheat on me but I think this might have been heading that way. Anyways, he turned the tables on me Sunday night and started sending me horrible text messages calling me a stalker for looking up his phone bill. We have a joint plan and I am his WIFE so I don't think this is stalking. I am confused as to what happened to my loving, supportive, fun husband and am seeking answers, not stalking him. He also is accusing me of emailing my college ex boyfriend, which is totally untrue. I know he is just trying to redirect the blame. His mother, who has been completely supportive of me and loves me like a daughter, called me and basically said that he had it out with her too and that she needs to support him right now, which I get. She is probably nervous he will cut her out of his life like he is doing to me (and did to his father, who at least deserved it). Now he says he is totally done. He told me he wants to get the ball rolling and get this over with as soon as possible. I told him again I think we need to go a month without seeing each other/and having little communication (other than stuff about our house) before we rush into anything. We need to do some home improvements before we can put our house up for sale, etc. and I am hoping in the meantime he will have a change of heart or after a month when things have cooled down he will be willing to go to marriage counseling (he said he was willing before but only wanted to go so I could find closure with our failed marriage). I'm just so lost and feel like my life is spinning out of control. It was so out of the blue. I can't concentrate at work, have been taking anxiety meds to get by. I'm a teacher so it's important I am always "on". My friends and family have been great but they are all struggling with this too, as I said it was so out of the blue. My father and my husband were buddies, they'd golf together, and loved to talk sports. My dad is so angry he hasn't even spoken to me about it because I think he is nervous he will say something he will regret if we end up back together. I want him to call my husband and tell him to act like a man and honor his vows but I think my dad is nervous he would flip out on my husband and make things worse. My husband reached out to my sister through text two weeks ago. They've always had a good relationship. I'm wondering if she should reach out to him or if I should just leave it be for now. I started reading "The Divorce Remedy" on Monday and it is helping but....I'm the willing participant. Some of the things sounded like my husband though- things being so bad he doesn't remember that they were ever good (they were!). Today we emailed about him coming to do yard work at our house this weekend and get some of his things. I will be leaving for the day so we don't have to see each other. I have tried to make my response as positive as possible and said I appreciate him coming to do work. Has something like this ever happened to someone else? I can't help but think his father's death triggered something in him. Thanks for any advice and support
Welcome to the board.
It sounds like he is depressed.
He is asking for SPACE, give it to him.
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what he say and half of what he does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Hi Maggie,
Welcome to our community. Holiday weekends are slow, so don't give up if responses to your post don't come as quickly as you'd like.
I'm going to cut to the chase here. You must let go of him. The more you try to keep him, the harder he pull away. He wants freedom. Until he feels that you have totally set him free, your M won't stand a chance.
That's probably not what you expected to hear, right? But you will hear this advice from those of us who have been around here for a few years.
He did love you! He still does! But, he's going through something that you can't fix. B/c his emotional pain is so big, he is desperately trying to find an escape. Unfortunately, he thinks leaving his M will help him to breathe. He doesn't know what he wants. But the more you fight him, the more he will want out.
Am I saying you should go file for a D? No, but I'm saying to leave him alone. You don't realize it, but even if he's not in an A with this OW, your clingy ways will cause him to justify having one. Right now, you are the blame for all his unhappiness. Now, we know that's not the case, but that's what he thinks.
You have to think of "fighting for your marriage" in a different way. The way you have been doing has resulted in choking him out of the MR. When women do that, they don't appear very attractive to the man, no matter how beautiful she may be.
You have a lot ahead of you, but know this.....we are here to support you, if you'll stick with us. I encourage you to post every day b/c that will help build a support group and keep us updated.
Do have children? Do you work outside the home?
Hi Maggie!
I haven't been here long, but I agree with what Sandi says, with one exception. She writes "you have to think of 'fighting for your marriage' in a different way." I agree with that, except that I am not "fighting", I have decided to stand for my marraige. Fighting makes me feel like my H and I are on opposite sides, one of us is right, one of us is wrong. Standing for my marriage makes me feel like I am standing up for what I believe no matter what happens. I know it's just one word, but that word changed my perspective. Hope that helps!
Hi Maggie--
I am new as well, and I totally get what you are saying. I will chime in with the others and say to just give him space. My H has been needing it for years and I always did the opposite. I wish I had found this site earlier. I am standing for my M as well, but have no expectations as to what will happen. My H moved to another state....and so we will see. But as my mother keeps telling me, it ain't over till the fat lady sings! Take it an hour at a time, that's what I do, as if I feel tempted to write, text or just reach out--I write in my journal. And no...I have not been doing this for very long...I am only on day 2 of the detach--so it is VERY HARD!!!!
Be patient and be kind to yourself. We will suceed in the end.
Hi Maggie,
I don't feel like I can give you too much advice since I have only been here for a couple of months myself. I can offer you support and my own experiences so far (I have some ways to go). Your sitch is similar to mine in that my H just was 'done!', possible EA as well, suddenly can't remember any good times, everything is my fault etc. I went into a tailspin too, did all the begging and pleading - and it DID NOT HELP one bit. It also made me personally feel worse.
So, I totally agree with sandi2, step away. Give them what they THINK AND SAY they want = freedom and space. At first it will feel totally unnatural to you. And, it is. But hold on to your hat as best you can, and the feelings will begin to soften. The S eventually does realise it's not really what they want, but they need to see it for themselves. Nothing you can say to them will get through to them as they have this ongoing argument going on in their own heads.
Giving space is probably the hardest thing because you worry if it will make him even more distanced and less feeling. It doesn't - trust me. It is just a fear you have.
After giving him space, I managed to focus on some of my 180's - which is actually VERY hard work, and sometimes leaves me confused. I am grateful to all the people here who post and share their experiences as there is a lot of hard-won wisdom (backed up by experience). So read here and it will calm you down, and give you pointers.
Just to clarify - 180's are things you wouldn't normally do. So, if you are a yeller (like I am), instead keep quiet. Find alternative modes of communication - and see it as you expanding your way of being. It has not been easy for me as I am like a volcano, so I've learned to use distraction, and this forum instead and other methods to express myself (like through my art). I have no idea if it is working on my H, but it certainly has worked in other departments of my life, hence my other relationships are improving and I feel more empowered.
So, good luck and keep posting
I appreciate that I can be supportive to someone else.
Are you still out there Maggie?
Thank you all so much for your support. I didn't know how to re-find my post so I didn't realize people had responded. We have no children, just pets. I had hoped we would be starting our family this coming fall after we had some work done to our house. I do work outside the home. I've been keeping myself very busy and have not communicated with his since last Wednesday. He texted me on Friday but it didn't require a response so I didn't respond. I didn't hear from him on Easter which made me feel sad. His mother and him usually do all holidays with my larger family. Easter is always especially fun so I was hoping he would be thinking about that while he spent the day alone with his mother.
Today I had a counseling appointment and caught her up on all that had happened with the texts to this OW. She seems to believe, as do I, that this has a lot to do with his estranged father's death. She mentioned something that it seems to her he tried to make good decisions his whole life and be nothing like his father (bipolar and turned to alcohol abuse- his parents divorced when he was 7 I think but he did not become estranged until he was 19 or so). She said now he seems to be making poor, impulsive decisions and not wanting to be responsible anymore (doesn't want to be married, own a home, etc). She thought I should write him a letter kind of summarizing our relationship history and how I thought this had to do with his father but that I wasn't going anywhere and if he wanted to work on things I'd be ready. I told her about the last resort technique I was trying from the DR and that l didn't want to contact him at this time and she supported that. I felt hopeful because he came to our house this weekend to get some stuff and do yard work while I wasn't here and he didn't take any of his stuff as far as I can tell.
I'm very fortunate to have an amazing support system of family and friends, even my coworkers who know what is going on have been great.
My husband emailed me today about when I wouldn't be home this coming weekend so he could do yard work. He also wished me luck in the marathon I'm running Monday. It's so crazy. Last year at this time he was telling me to pack my suitcase because he was taking me to an island after the marathon, this year he is emailing to "wish me luck, regardless of our situation". He is going to come do yard work Monday- dashing my hopes that he'd show up to cheer me on. I responded pleasantly though, thanking him. We also have a wedding next weekend, a female friend of his who I became close with. We decided I would go, as I'm doing a reading and her and I are closer than they are. The Bride knows everything going on and asked me to bring my best friend instead. I'm nervous for my first big event without him and the questions I'm sure to get. Plus, it being a wedding is bittersweet. I know I will have fun with my friends though.
I'm driving myself crazy wondering what my husband does on weekends. I've convinced myself he is out at bars (still has many single friends) or with the woman he was texting. What strategies do other people use to not think these thoughts? I know I should keep busy but I've developed a cold and need to try and get better plus rest my body for my race on Monday. I am on vacation this week too which means lots of down time for thoughts to creep in.
My friend was telling me how she's been juicing and feels great. Heading to treat myself to a juicer. It's $$$ but I deserve it! My husband is on a health kick. He's coming here Monday while I'm gone to do yard work. Maybe he will see it and wish he still lived here so he could have juice
Feeling very at peace today. I realized a few days ago that this really isn't about me. Initially I was embaressed by the things I thought I needed to change about myself- ranging from starting to wear nicer pajamas instead of the shorts and t-shirts I've worn to bed our whole relationship to starting to eat meat again- even though my husband was always supportive of my decision to go vegetarian I thought maybe this was now bothering him as he used to find recipes to make me online and over the past several months leading up to "the bomb" we basically stopped eating together never mind the same foods. Now I realize these are not BAD things about me, they are who I am and I'm not changing them. I'm willing to work on our relationship issues but not compromise who I am, and I will not accept the blame he is trying to place on me.
How did you make it? Don't know if it was the same race, but I heard on the news that the high temp caused most runners to not participate this time.
Trying to stop thoughts about what your H is doing on weekends, may be a tough challenge, but I'll pass along what I've read that some found a level of success. It's kind of like the rubber band on your wrist and snapping it when your mind goes down a unwanted path (which doesn't work for me....the rubber band popping method). Whenever your thoughts wonder about H's activities, put your hand up in front of your face (really or mentally) in the "police officer's stop position. Then you give yourself a pep talk about your determination, your strategies, goals for the weekend, and that you don't have time, nor allow yourself to give him/or OW your thoughts and/or fretting about something you have no control over. Then get very busy at something you do have control over right then.
May sound silly, but it does work with many people.
I just wanted to say that I am sorry you are going through this.
Thanks Sandi- my friend suggested trying something similar and when I tried it I just kept thinking! Ugh! I have been keeping very busy- the weather has been amazing here (though, definitely NOT good running weather Monday- I got sick) so I went to the beach yesterday. Today my parents and my uncle came down (family is an hour away) and we got a bunch of home improvement jobs done inside and out- so that feels good. I found a quote posted on one of these forums that I really liked and had an internal response to- something about how when you set yourself on fire to get smoke in your spouse's eyes you end up burnt. I feel like that helped me drop a lot of my anger. I now (at least for today but I also felt this good yesterday) realize this is not about me. My H is going through something really hard right now and while I know that our marriage wasn't perfect, it was damn good and I know I am a great person. The disbelief I see on people's faces when I tell them what is going on validates this. We did have a great relationship. The support from my friends and family and even casual acquaintances who have found out what is happening also validates to me that I am a good person, someone that people want to see succeed and be happy. And I will. Whether he is with me or not.
Advice- 3 weeks ago when I found out my H was texting with potential OW I took down every photo of him in our house- wedding pictures, etc. Yesterday while cleaning I put them back up because the walls look bare without them and I'm in my phase of not having regrets about our marriage and knowing I didn't cause this. My H has been here since they were down. He will be staying here this weekend taking care of our pets while I'm away. Should I take the pictures down before he comes? We havent spoken about out marriage (I told him I wanted a 1 month hiatus to gather our thoughts/ cool down) so he doesn't know about my new thoughts on the marriage. If he sees the pictures up will he perceive it as me trying to "prove" we were happy- or think I've gone crazy and am in denial?? When really it just makes our home look nicer and I was nervous one of our pets would break something. Am I over thinking?
Journaling
Feeling sad today. Going to my first big event without H today- our friend's wedding. Had to lie and tell people he was on a business trip last night at the rehearsal. I just don't get how this all came on so quickly- I mean obviously it didn't for him but for me it did. I've been so good at going dark but the past two days I've had so many little things I wanted to tell him and last night I stupidly texted him something I thought he'd find funny and got no response. I'm also getting anxious because our month of not speaking or seeing each other before making our next move is coming to and end soon (may 1) and I was hoping that after a month with little contact he'd want to try counseling (as opposed to going so I could find closure) and I feel in my heart that he won't want to try. I'm thinking I may try to stall time and keep in this holding pattern- since we can't sell our house until September anyways without a tax penalty. I'm also frustrated because with us separated and not speaking I don't really feel capable of 180s. I want to try communicating with him in other ways, since that's our biggest issue IMO, but how do I do that if we aren't communicating?
Ugh- I need to cheer up! Taking my parents dog for a walk to try and cheer up!
Hi Maggie, I am sorry you are sad today. I totally understand feeling sad when going to an event without your H for the first time. For me it was Easter weekend, we had a couple of different parties to go to. Lucky they all revolved around the kids so there was that distraction. The first one he didn't go to and I actually had a great time, laughed and joked with the friends that knew what was really going on. The second one he came to and I had a miserable time, it is actually in my thread somewhere. I was mad that he was acting fine and I was completely angry the whole time, enforcing his negative view of me. So I know it's hard to go without him, but I am actually sure you will have a much better time than if he came and ignored you, acting like all is well. Take your time getting ready, so you look good and feel good. Hold your head high, enjoy your time with friends and you will be amazed that you are actually fine after. It will be a night to take back your power.
It is hard to go to your first event without h. Try to have fun and enjoy your friends. I bet you will have a great night. Now is the time to do things you like to do and spend time with people you like. Remember the person you were before you were with you H. My H was so angry with me and everything was my fault so it was almost a relief to start going to things alone and not have to pretend things were ok with us.
Have fun!!
Had a great time!!! When conversation would turn to him I'd keep it light then change the subject. Had an "epiphany" in the church-what if when we do meet I am very firm with him and just say "listen, I don't fully agree with divorce, especially with no efforts towards reconciliation so we are doing marriage counseling, you're moving back in and you're making an effort to work on this" when we meet in a few weeks, or even better in yet another month if I can push it back. I think it would be a 180 as I tend to be pretty easy going/ indecisive and I know that bugs him.
Journaling
Thought of, and wrote down, a list of things to do this summer without my H. Summer vacation is just 7 weeks away and I feel anxious about all the time I'll be spending alone while not working and having my husband not living here. Usually this is when we start making our summer plans too, so thats been on my mind. I have 2 teacher friends that live close by but one is away all summer and the other will be very pregnant. I plan on taking 2 classes towards another degree this summer and am going to look for some fun crafting type classes.
More Journaling
I'm still trying to figure out the major issues in our relationship,and how to do 180s. I am struggling with this since he was all over the place in each of our relationship talks, and eventually I would just start crying or get mad and never fully listened. I've been mostly dark still- but we have had more communication lately, though it's purely strategic (bill paying, pet stuff, dividing up the weeks we volunteer so we don't both show up). I haven't seen him since the end of March. I don't want to have any relationship talks right now either- I'm finally feeling better and more confident and still want time to do my work and for him to hopefully get his head on straight. These are the issues we had, as I see them. I'm sure most of these would be what he would say (or has said) but some are from me reflecting. I'd love any advice on 180s and am including what Im doing (though again we don't talk or see each other so I can't tell if they are working).
Issue/ my 180
Lack of sex (I think this was an issue for both of us- he wanted more but wasnt making me feel desired/ desirable) / while he was still living here I sent him a few seductive texts, initiated, etc but eventually told him I felt he was using me which was making me feel bad about myself
Nagging regarding housework (this has been an issue for awhile- I tried other strategies without success such as leaving lists, having a list in a cabinet, starting projects for him to jump in on, I even asked him to go out with friends on Saturday mornings so I at least wouldn't get mad watching him sit around while I cleaned the house). I think one issue is we both keep score. Another issue according to him is that I never notice the things he does do, which is true. Also, I like things done on my timeline and he tends to move slowly. Since he is no longer living here I try to thank him when he does come by and do work- or I'll text him a compliment on something he has done. This one is really hard to work on without him here but I'd say it's our biggest fight producer (really was the only thing we ever fought about cosistently).
Nosiness- lack of privacy (on my part)- when he would leave his email/fb logged in or his phone around I would tend to look- more because I'm nosy than that I didn't trust him. He always made jokes about it so I didn't think it really bothered him. But this has come up repeatedly in our talks. I also think he was so angry because he had been texting with this coworker (a woman but not an OW- I think he was using her to get the attention he'd normally get from me). Then I found about the texts with the potentially becoming an OW coworker of his (who I don't know and had never heard of until her number began appearing on our phone bill)./ my 180 is I got my own phone plan so cannot see who he calls/texts but this was because he called me a "stalker" when i confronted him not because my decision to stop invading his privacy. Since we no longer live together I have no other ways of invading his privacy - I don't know any of his passwords and he quit fb (potential OW was also his friend on fb and I wrote a childish comment on his page for her to see when I found out he was talking to her). I've done some damage pre reading DB. I guess I can't really say I've made a 180 with this bc if I could get into his email I know I would go in and read them- even though this invades his privacy and could potentially hurt me but I don't know how to stop being a nosey person! Would love some advice with this.
He complained I never went out with friends anymore or that I always had people here and never left the house/ I told him this was for financial reasons (my hours had been cut at work and i bought a new car that he was supposed to be helping me pay for/ I've been going out with friends a lot. He is also giving me spending money so I can go out but if he stops I will continue and just find free things to do with friends.
Complaining about work/ I stopped eating in the staff room (gossip) and try to nip conversations with coworkers in the bud when I can tell they are negative/ complaining. I've told a few close coworkers that I'm trying to rid my life of negativity to help (my one close coworker is the most negative and I feel like I was turning into her!) I'm trying to focus on the things I love about my job.
Yet more journaling
Started a new audio book today on the way to work. I think it's called How Full is your Bucket. It's pretty interesting- basically saying we fill up our buckets through positive interactions with people, both where we are treated positively and where we treat positively. It was saying they authors studied couples in their first year of marriage and predicted the ones that would stay married because they had a 5-1 positive to negative ratio. Ten years later they had been 94% right. I think I am a pretty positive person (I'm always smiling, look on the bright side, etc) but had definitely got in a rut the past 6 months- I think partially do to my husbands attitude (the change after his father died), plus financial stress, being upset that my hours had been cut at work though my workload hadn't, etc. I would definitely say my husband had that 5-1, though maybe it had felt like less more recently. I feel upset that if that is a factor why couldn't he stay with me through my rough 6 months when he had seen me as positive for the past 6 years? Why didn't he see this was a rut I was in? Our last fight (4/1) I said this to him. Told him He was being a fair weather friend. I guess these are the things that make me think there is something much deeper at work (depression in him? MLC at 31? Not wanting to have an awful marriage like his parents did?) he has always had anxiety issues- whenever he'd get stressed he would think he had cancer because of a headache or something- and he would go crazy looking things up on webmd. He says I was never supportive during these episodes (I honestly didn't know how to be- didn't want to encourage him so I'd downplay things- this is how I was raised- if you're sick go to bed but don't keep complaining). In hindsight I guess I should have been more compassionate but I was never mean about these things- just downplayed them- and would point out what I believed to be a stressor causing it. Anyways- I wonder about depression but then he seems to be fine going out with his friends, etc. Our mutual friend met up with him a month ago and she said he didn't seem depressed to her. I don't know enough about depression to have a clear view. I know I shouldn't keep looking for the "why" since that already happened and I should just move on with fixing myself and GAL but I can't stop trying to figure things out.
Maggie
first thing, I cannot read your thread without taking a lot of time b/c it's ONE LONG narrative.
I'm not criticizing you - I'm saying to break it up into small paragraphs b/c it's much easier to read.
When I try to scroll down your page it jumps and I lose my place too easily. So please break up the paragraphs, okay?
Now I'm going to read your thread but can already feel it will take a lot longer.
Here we go...
More Journaling
I'm still trying to figure out the major issues in our relationship,and how to do 180s. I am struggling with this since he was all over the place in each of our relationship talks,
and eventually I would just start crying or get mad and never fully listened.
180 #1 is to CALM down when you expect a conversation of any type, to come up. IF an anti-anxiety med is required for this, take it. Do NOT blow these chances to gather information from your h. YOU need not decide anything. But learn where is he coming from at least at that moment in time.
Consider it a "recon mission" as Seal Team 6 would say...
Listen to him, making eye contact as much as possible. Re-cap what you think he said, just to verify that he said what you thought. IF you are not sure what something means, ask him to elaborate. Make NO judgements about this information.
IF he expects or asks you for a reaction, do NOT react. Thank him for his honesty and tell him you need time to process the information...and then go unless you think there's more to say on HIS end.
#2 180
YOU SAY NOTHING for now. You just LISTEN...it's a 180 AND it's information that you need anyhow.
I've been mostly dark still- but we have had more communication lately, though it's purely strategic (bill paying, pet stuff, dividing up the weeks we volunteer so we don't both show up). I haven't seen him since the end of March. I don't want to have any relationship talks right now either- I'm finally feeling better and more confident and still want time to do my work and for him to hopefully get his head on straight. These are the issues we had, as I see them. I'm sure most of these would be what he would say (or has said) but some are from me reflecting. I'd love any advice on 180s and am including what Im doing (though again we don't talk or see each other so I can't tell if they are working).
Issue/ my 180
Lack of sex (I think this was an issue for both of us- he wanted more but wasnt making me feel desired/ desirable) / while he was still living here I sent him a few seductive texts, initiated, etc but eventually told him
I felt he was using me which was making me feel bad about myselfSo he wanted to have more sex, and you said he had to make you feel more desirable and THEN you would have more sex.
So, you attached conditions to whether you'd make love, which I'm guessing is how HE felt connected to you. And it may have felt like a lot of rejection to him, often and over time...
Why did you tell him you felt HE was using you and that he "made" you "feel bad" about yourself? Is that another reason for you not to have sex?
This issue is not a small one to him. You rejected him a lot. So IF you think YOU felt undesired, imagine how HE felt?
Nagging regarding housework (this has been an issue for awhile- I tried other strategies without success such as leaving lists, having a list in a cabinet, starting projects for him to jump in on, I even asked him to go out with friends on Saturday mornings so I at least wouldn't get mad watching him sit around while I cleaned the house).
I think one issue is we both keep score.
Scorekeeping prevents happiness in ALL marriages.
#3 180 Lose the scorecard.
First off, he has his own scorecard b/c we each look at the world with our own lenses.
On HIS scorecard, you are way behind b/c he thinks he works hard and that you have rejected him so much and that you criticize him too much and you spy on him, denying him basic privacy.
(Make no mistake. NAGGING = CRITICISM).
As for housework, another option is to hire a housekeeper and let HIM see the bill for it. IF he has no problem with buying it, then let him.
Does he think this really is YOUR job, as a woman? IF so, that needs addressing.
Again , lose the scorecard...stay in the NOW.
Don't re-hash the past or try to relive all the traumas of the past. You two don't have to see your history identically as long as you both learn what not to do, from this day forward.
Make sense?
issue according to him is that I never notice the things he does do, which is true.
#4 180
Then "applaud loudly for the 1% of positives he does" and be sincere about it. This will make him feel better about the r, and might undermine his negative images that he uses to justify leaving...Also, I like things done on my timeline and he tends to move slowly.
What? Who says YOUR timeline is his? Why do you determine when things MUST be done? This sounds like control on your end. What do you think?Since he is no longer living here I try to thank him when he does come by and do work- or I'll text him a compliment on something he has done. This one is really hard to work on without him here but I'd say
it's our biggest fight producer (really was the only thing we ever fought about cosistently).
meaning you not complimenting or appreciating him? See any pattern?
Keep up the compliments and simple "thank you"s for the things he does, even if it's by text.
Unless he asked you not to call, I prefer if you call him to thank him, and THEN GET OFF THE PHONE first, while wishing him a good day, etc...
so it does not come across as anything but him hearing your voice in a nice positive tone. Not pursuit. Always be the one to end the conversation. NO expectations attach to this.
consistent change + sufficient time = change he can believe in.
Do this in at least 90 day increments, so you don't bother monitoring for results too early.
Nosiness- lack of privacy (on my part)- when he would leave his email/fb logged in or his phone around
I would tend to look-
more because I'm nosy than that I didn't trust him.
#5 180
STOP SNOOPING.
Okay for ME that^^^ is almost a dealbreaker all by itself. It would truly bother me DEEPLY if my h did this...that's all I can say.
I tell my sisters and bff's things I do NOT want my h to know that usually have nothing to do with h. But I'll share those thoughts with him IF & WHEN I WANT
TO...
If my h kept up the snooping, I'd want him to get counselling
and if it kept up we might be done...
You MUST CHANGE THIS for this relationship - and for any others you may someday have. IT's NOT OKAY.
You're "just Nosy"? Come on. You sound like a teenage girl when you say it. If its trust - then examine THAT....
He always made jokes about it so I didn't think it really bothered him. But this has come up repeatedly in our talks.
Then YES it DID bother him and you're lucky he was so patient about it that he tried to reach you with jokes...LISTEN TO THIS.- change it asap I also think he was so angry because he had been texting with this coworker (a woman but not an OW-
I think he was using her to get the attention he'd normally get from me).
b/c you were ignoring him or what? Is this how you two related for your r?
Then I found about the texts with the potentially becoming an OW coworker of his (who I don't know and had never heard of until her number began appearing on our phone bill)./ my 180 is I got my own phone plan so cannot see who he calls/texts but this was because he called me a "stalker" when i confronted him not because my decision to stop invading his privacy.
Since we no longer live together I have no other ways of invading his privacy - I don't know any of his passwords and he quit fb
Good. Don't stalk him and stop invading his privacy (it's NOT ok) unless it's a financial issue YOU are legally entitled to knowing.
In some ways he may feel pushed into the arms of the OW. Sorry but that is how I'D feel.
(potential OW was also his friend on fb and
I wrote a childish comment on his page for her to see when I found out he was talking to her).
(SIGH)... what were you thinking? IT never looks bad for the OW, just for the wife.
I know this b/c my high school class has a fb page and some wife posted on it blasting a classmate for "stealing" her h. I'm the admin for the class page and 2 people unrelated to the sitch, called me to delete the post from the w which i did.
Its not the place for HER bitterness to show up and what I find interesting is that NO ONE thought well of the wife for posting it.
Some people reached out to OW to see if her feelings were hurt. Others just thought the wife was "nutty" and think her h is probably justified for leaving her.
How does that make you feel?
I hope you'll learn from this b/c it's a myth that LBSers buy into. That by "exposing" something they are hurt by and involving other unrelated people, they think they'll find allies.
I've never seen that help a w or lbs h.
so #6 180 is NO MORE EXPOSING TO 3RD PARTIES...
you want to keep the road home, paved & smooth...
dont' make it harder to come back for him than it already will be.
I've done some damage pre reading DB. I guess I can't really say I've made a 180 with this bc
if I could get into his email I know I would go in and read them- even though this invades his privacy and could potentially hurt me
but I don't know how to stop being a nosey person! Would love some advice with this.IF my above comments don't help you stop being nosy (as if it's a tiny quirk of yours)
let me say it's not you "being nosy". It's rude, it's weird, It's you being out of control b/c you want control and it's a dangerous obsession you have.
You would do it anyhow KNOWING it would hurt your m and YOU...that's NOT a healthy behavior nor is it you "just being nosy".
It means you lack the discipline to stop yourself from doing what you KNOW is harmful to your m.
Knock it off. Or at least don't minimize it.
He complained I never went out with friends anymore or that I always had people here and never left the house/ I told him this was for financial reasons (my hours had been cut at work and i bought a new car that he was supposed to be helping me pay for/ I've been going out with friends a lot. He is also giving me spending money so I can go out but if he stops I will continue and just find free things to do with friends.
Good...
Stop arguing with him about why you do what you do. Change it or accept it.
In this ^^ situation it sounds like a change on your end is needed.
See, When we revolve around our spouses, which is what it looks like if we do when we never go anywhere, it makes us look as if we bring little to the table...except for our needs.
And when our needs are not met by our spouses (which is NOT their job. It's OUR job to make ourselves happy)
we tend to retreat from the spouse, which makes it even harder for them to reach out to us. IT's a cycle that is being perpetuated by your behaviors.
Change yourself and the dynanmic will change.
Complaining about work/ I stopped eating in the staff room (gossip) and try to nip conversations with coworkers in the bud when I can tell they are negative/ complaining. I've told a few close coworkers that I'm trying to rid my life of negativity to help (my one close coworker is the most negative and I feel like I was turning into her!) I'm trying to focus on the things I love about my job.
having an upbeat attitude about life, being a contented person, and
acting happy, is attractive. Yes you can "fake it til you make it" BC merely acting happy still attracts better things to you in life.
Being a swirling vortex of negativity, (which is easy to become when that is what you are surrounded by), is a drag.
Makes those around you feel as if you are circling the drain AND pulling them down with you, like your co=worker is doing to you. And as your h fears you will do to him...
I think your h showed a healthy streak in this scenario, by asking you to stop being negative around him. Good for him.
Maybe you can compliment him for showing you what to do with that co-worker b/c you "get it" now...he was right.
Gossiping is rarely focussed on a happy event, like the "coming raise" or "happy office relationship".
It tends to solely focus on the negative AND it sounds bitchy and no one finds it attractive. Sorry.
I think THIS trait is mandatory for you to change.
Many of these traits you've bravely recognized, NEED to change so
YOU can be a happier and healthier person regardless of what happens with your h...
180 #7
is to
Be the most upbeat happy and increasingly self confident KIND WOMAN you can be. Be your best self.
Become a woman only a fool would leave.
Period.
my gosh, 25 is so smart and wise...and right!
I wrote a response yesterday and it still has not posted. Could I be back on moderation?
JOURNALING
Some days feel so much harder than others. Today I felt very sad and often would just have a thought of "I DON'T GET IT!". Our 1 month of planned not communicating/seeing each other is coming to an end. I have been feeling very anxious about it. I'm guessing it's partly because I don't want to hear what he has to say in terms of my assuming he will want to move things along with a D. My counselor suggested I email my H and tell him I'd like to put it off and continue to concentrate on myself and my healing. I wrote this email a few days ago but have yet to send it. I'm wondering if I should wait until he contacts me about meeting or if I should send it? I welcome any feedback.
Hi ______,
I hope everything is going well with you. I know we had said we would meet up after a month and figure out our next steps, and May 1 is just around the corner. I was writing to see if you would be willing to push that date back. I have been really taking advantage of this time to heal and reflect and focus on myself. I have been really enjoying the time and don't feel quite ready to meet up and make moves/ decisions quite yet, but totally understand if you would like to. I just feel as though my spirit has lifted and I don't want to do anything which may cause me to lose my focus at this point. I hope this makes sense to you. And obviously you are always welcome here- just let me know and I can leave so you can visit (pets) or whatever.
Hi ______,
I hope everything is going well with you. I know we had said we would meet up after a month and figure out our next steps, and May 1 is just around the corner. I was writing to see if you would be willing to push that date back.I'd like to push the May 1st date to ______. I have been really taking advantage of this time to heal and reflect and focus on myself. I have been really enjoying the time and don't feel quite ready to meet up and make moves/ decisions quite yet, but totally understand if you would like to. I just feel as though my spirit has lifted and I don't want to do anything which may cause me to lose my focus at this point. I hope this makes sense to you. And obviously you are always welcome here- just let me know and I can leave so you can visit (pets) or whatever.
Yeah, cut it to the bone.
Okay- I guess my response post to you 25yrs isn't going to post so I will give it another shot.
180 #1 is to CALM down when you expect a conversation of any type, to come up.
[/color]
I will definitely try to remain completely calm when we talk. During our last discussion (when I was very calm and I asked him to leave for a month) he actually told me it was hard to talk with me before because I would start crying. I think I only was calm in that conversation because I was so emotionally drained. I will try and keep repeating "Calm" to myself to help. I've actually been very calm since he has left but am anxious that calmness will go away when I see him.
So he wanted to have more sex, and you said he had to make you feel more desirable and THEN you would have more sex.
Why did you tell him you felt HE was using you and that he "made" you "feel bad" about yourself? Is that another reason for you not to have sex?
[color:#CC66CC] Yes. This was after the bomb that I told him this during one of our conversations. I didn't think of it as attaching conditions to it, but he had gotten to the point where his come on line was "let's go upstairs" and other than that no real affection. I think I was offering an explanation more than anything. Explaining to him that for me to feel "turned on" I needed some emotional connection/to feel desired. He was blaming me for the lack of sex but he was not initiating sex in an appropriate way either. After the bomb I wasn't attaching any conditions. I started doing things I never would have before- sending him suggestive texts, lingerie, etc. No matter how he was treating me. It made me hate myself to be honest. Afterwards he would go sleep in the guest room (where he had started sleeping). The last time we had sex was in late March. He stopped over to do some work at our house and we had a talk. During the talk I started crying and said I was willing to go to a sex therapist if that was what he wanted (this was pre-DB). He said, "Do you want to work on it? Let's go upstairs and start working on it". Then he crossed the room and pulled me up from the chair and started kissing me (he had stopped that kind of foreplay long before). During he started talking about back when we were dating, etc. I honestly thought this was a big changing moment and that we would BOTH start to work on things. Later on he left the house after to go sleep at his mothers (which had been the plan prior). I asked him to stay and he said he couldn't. Then when he went to leave I went to kiss him goodbye and he kissed me on my forehead. I felt awful about myself for the next 2 days. During our next talk (when I asked him to completely move out and stop communicating for a month) I brought it up and he told me he felt bad and that he felt as though he had used me.
#3 180 Lose the scorecard.
First off, he has his own scorecard b/c we each look at the world with our own lenses.
[/color] I brought this up with my counselor to work on it.
As for housework, another option is to hire a housekeeper and let HIM see the bill for it. IF he has no problem with buying it, then let him.
[color:#9999FF] WISH I had done this before.
Does he think this really is YOUR job, as a woman? IF so, that needs addressing.
[/color] I don't think he thinks of it as my job as a woman, but his mother 100% caters to him so I think this is something he was used to. When we moved in together she brought me the tray he liked to eat dinner on as a child. I threw it away. Before our issues started happening he used to help more with cooking and cleaning- but he always tended to be on the lazy side (my counselor said to refer to it as low energy whereas I am high energy, sounds a bit nicer). I definitely think some sort of depression had also crept in making him even more "low energy". One of the things he has said is that since the bomb he has felt like he had a lot more energy.
Don't re-hash the past or try to relive all the traumas of the past. You two don't have to see your history identically as long as you both learn what not to do, from this day forward. Make sense? [color:#9999FF]Absolutely. I am trying to not do this (internally) but I keep looking back for clues in our history. I need to stop doing this so I can move FORWARD.
What? Who says YOUR timeline is his? Why do you determine when things MUST be done? This sounds like control on your end. What do you think?
[/color] Yes, I guess it is control and more of me being high energy and him being low energy. My counselor said sometimes someone high energy like me needs someone low energy to balance things out, but it was almost like he had gotten so low energy over the past 5 months or so that it was driving me crazy. Again, I think maybe depression that I missed. In another of our post bomb talks I said about how we used to do so much together, races, bike rides, hikes, etc and how he never wanted to anymore. He said something like "I needed you to make me". Which to me felt like nagging but I guess it's a difference between making someone do something fun or making someone clean the toilets.
#5 180
If my h kept up the snooping, I'd want him to get counselling
and if it kept up we might be done... [color:#9999FF] I'm trying to not be a snooper. I honestly think like other things it IS an addiction. Will I get caught? Will I find something? It all started because one time years ago he had me get something off his phone and I found texts between him and a girl he had dated before me. Nothing scandalous but her talking how she was moving up our way. I was deeply hurt because the texts were happening while I was away helping to care for and then bury my grandmother whom I was very close with. I was only gone physically from our relationship about a week (during which I still saw him a few days and talked to him several times daily). Obviously I had been kind of checked out emotionally for a few weeks leading up to it. My grandmother loved him too (she gave him her diamond which is now part of my ring). When we talked he said he had "liked the attention" from this former gf. Before this I didn't snoop, or spy, or worry or get jealous when he went out. For the most part I didn't even snoop much for the next 4 years but when I did and would get caught he would make jokes and if/when we ever talked about it he seemingly got where my insecurities were coming from. Once things started feeling different of course I started checking his phone, and looking for an explanation. One night he went out and I looked at his email the following week and there was an email from his friend calling him the deli man because all the girls were lined up waiting to talk to him (he is very attractive). I confronted him. I was so upset. He was mad at me for looking but of course had an explanation. The bomb happened about a week later so I have no doubt that part of this comes from my invading his privacy. How do I show him I am working on this? And can I EVER really gain back trust after all of this if I already had trust issues?
b/c you were ignoring him or what? Is this how you two related for your r?
[/color] I don't think I ever ignored him but maybe that was how he was feeling? Or maybe he needed more good feelings than I was giving him and so he sought the attention of this work friend? I think he talks to her about our relationship.
(potential OW was also his friend on fb and I wrote a childish comment on his page for her to see when I found out he was talking to her).
(SIGH)... what were you thinking? IT never looks bad for the OW, just for the wife.
[color:#CCCCFF]I was so angry! I wrote a comment on something she posted on his page 2 months earlier, so when I wrote it I knew only she and him would really see it. Also what I wrote only someone who knew exactly what was going on would have understood. He deleted it IMMEDIATELY (and I do mean immediately, I think he was waiting for it, which I guess means he expected me to be childish).
You would do it anyhow KNOWING it would hurt your m and YOU...that's NOT a healthy behavior nor is it you "just being nosy".
[/color] I also think this is part of me trying to protect myself/not be made to look like an idiot. I guess I feel like if I know he is doing something it won't make me look as bad if I find out about it rather than it happening behind my back. Does this make sense?
See, When we revolve around our spouses, which is what it looks like if we do when we never go anywhere, it makes us look as if we bring little to the table...except for our needs.[color:#9999FF]
Completely agree and feel so happy that I have started GAL that is not defined by him or what he is doing. I feel like for the past year or so I was always waiting to see what his plans were before making mine.
[color:#9999FF][/color] One final note- in terms of positivity, I was always the more positive one in our relationship. I think I still am more positive than him, but I had a really rough fall with work and with my own finances, which my expectation in a marriage would be that he would help me through. I guess what I failed to see was that he was also having a really rough fall with his father's passing (even though he said he didn't care) and with his work moving. I think I was so focused on my issues and since he never talked about them I guess I didn't think the issues going on with him were as big a deal. Now that I am reading Men are from Mars I get that men deal with hard times differently and I probably should have offered him support in ways other than "conversational support". I just wish I could go back in time with the knowledge that I have now.
Thanks again for your response.
Wow- you're good! I've always been too verbose!
I used to write emails where every word had a double meaning. I've learned.
Get in, say what you came to say, get out!
H emailed me today that he is coming to do work at our house on Sunday. Was kind of a weird email- I won't be home but don't remember telling him that so I'm not sure whether to find his email telling me he is coming to be rude or not. Basically it said he was coming and to leave a note with anything I need done (other than what he listed)- which shows he expected me not to be there. Over the past month he has always emailed asking if he can come on certain days so I'm thinking he knows I won't be home. I'm wondering if I should leave him a list (plenty needs to be done) or not? I keep reading how men need to feel "needed" by a woman but our main issues were around fighting over household chores.
I have not sent him the email about May 1 yet. One thing I feel anxious about is making a decision whether to try MC again. This was something we said we would decide after our month of not speaking. We went to only one session during which the c said she thought he needed to go to IC before MC would help us. He went for a short time and said it wasn't helping. He said he would go to MC to help me find closure. I don't want to go if that's the reason. I don't feel ready to bring up all the same hurt I've tried to move past during the last month, especially if it's for nothing.
Journaling
Having a bad day with a lot of social anxiety. My neighbors are having a cookout for their baby's birthday. I had been looking forward to going- even though I wouldn't know many people. I waited 2 hours to go over- hoping my anxiety would go away (I am not usually socially anxious). Finally I went and was there for maybe 10 minutes before basically having a panic attack and having to come home and call my sister so she'd calm me down. I know it will take awhile for these things to not bother me. But I just kept wondering if anybody knew (even though I didn't know anyone there except I'd met their family briefly). And also being around all the babies was hard. I get nervous I won't have the chance to have children now (I'll be 33 in a few weeks and had anticipated starting our family soon). Now with a possible divorce and the time to heal and then meet someone else and fall in love and be ready to have kids I wonder if it will be too late. I fear that my children won't get to grow up with my nephews like I had hoped. These thoughts make me so angry with my H.
Journaling
I literally feel like I am going to have a heart attack with all the anxiety I am having today. I don't know why I am so anxious the last 2 days.
H is at our house doing yard work and I am at my part time job. I slept at a friend's house last night so he could go to our house early this morning without us seeing each other. I left the house in a rush last night- but before I left I remembered to grab all of my self help books and DB/DR and bring them in my car so my H wouldn't see them (after I saw a post where someone mentioned their H finding them).
I really miss doing yard work on weekends with my H. I find it funny the things I miss with him not around. I can't say I loved doing yard work in the past, so I wonder why it is one of the things I really miss. Maybe because I enjoyed being active with him. I also really wanted to plant a garden this year. Last year we did veggies in pots. I don't feel like I could plant a garden alone (H has the green thumb, not me) and I also wonder if it is a good idea since we will need to sell our house if we do D.
I went out with friends last night. Some knew what is going on, some didn't and some I could tell knew but didn't ask (especially since they asked me tons of questions but none about my H and nobody mentioned his name or the fact he wasn't there once). One of my friends and his wife are newly pregnant. I'm very happy for them but I also felt so jealous
I hate feeling jealous when I should only feel happy for them.
The other day I was thinking I didn't want to do MC with my H if he only wanted me to find closure. Today I think I DO want to do it regardless, otherwise how will he see any of my 180s? Plus hopefully it will slow down any proceedings towards a D. Wish I had a crystal ball....
Today has been 30 days since I have seen or spoken to my H. We've probably exchanged emails only 3x and texts maybe 2x. Wow. Amazed at how quickly life has changed. The first 1/4 of 2012 has been awful. I'm determined to make the next 3/4 better.
Hang in there, Maggie! I have the same worries about losing the chance to have kids. There's only so much we can control, GAL is one of them. You can do it!
Well my anxiety is back for the 3rd day in a row after several weeks without. Guess I'll start taking my Ativan again.
Today my husband had to come by our house and move our lawn mower into the shed before work. He emailed me and told me he was coming. He came early and I heard the mower start up. I secretly watched him out the window and he did not look up at the house once. It made me really sad that he could not see me for 1 month and be so close to where I was and not want to see me. The same with our pets- who we are/were both obsessed with. I don't think the LRT is working, though I will stick with it. My H is very stubborn and once his mind is made up there is no changing it. I can't think of one example of this during our R. His estranged father reached out to him and he never let him back in so he has the capacity to completely detach which makes me very sad for him.
Just my .02 worth but I think his ability to cut people off is his defense mechanism, learned as a child due to his estrangement from his father.
When people cause him pain, he removes them from his life so he doesn't have to feel the pain. It's his issue with himself more so than an issue with you.
He doesn't want to dig deep and find out what's there because it would be too painful.
That's a simplification of what may be a more complex issue but my H is very much like that.
All you can do is work on you. Whether he ever does that is very much out of your control.
Live the life you want to live, GAL, have fun, learn something new.
Thanks Labug- I think you are totally right about it being a defense mechanism. I'm just so frustrated because I know I am a good person and was a great partner to him. If/when I caused him pain it was never my intention. It's just so hard seeing how easily he can walk away. I'm also feeling really badly for his mother. My family had become her family. She has no siblings, her parents have passed away, and her only other child lives across the country. So now it is just her and him again and I know she is very upset by the decisions he is making. I know I need to only worry about myself but I can't help but worry about her, though I have cut off contact with her as well for my own well being.
Along the same lines of the emotional detachment thing I should mention that around the holidays my H was annoyed with his brother (12 years older, lives across the country with his W and kids and can be a very negative person). We were in the car and he was complaining about his brother and made a comment along the lines of "when my mother dies I won't have anything to do with (brother)". His brother did nothing worthy of a statement like this- he can just be annoying. I didn't think much of it at the time- bc he was annoyed and nothing had happened with us yet. Pre-bomb we were for all intents and purposes more than okay in our marriage- so I just took this as him venting. After his quick and complete detachment from me it makes me worried for him. What is going on in his brain that he can just cut important people out from his life???!
HUGE MISTAKE- NEED HELP ASAP
So this morning I was feeling really anxious on my drive to work and I JUST wanted/needed to hear my husband's voice. He is only working a half day and was coming to our house to do work. I had some things I needed to tell him, but could have done so in an email. Stupidly I chose to call him when I was feeling needy.
It was our first time talking in about 5 weeks. Anyways, I left him a voicemail with the things I needed to ask/tell him and said give me a call. He called me back a few minutes later. As soon as I heard him my voice started to crack. We asked how each other were- he said he is good and very busy at work. He said he was coming today to the house because he wouldn’t be around the next few weekends. I resisted asking him where he would be.
Anyways, eventually I said would you like to meet up and figure some things out. He asked what I wanted to figure out- I said some things with the house and to talk about our next steps. He said he had been waiting until I am out of school for the summer because he didn't want to upset me. He said he wanted to go through mediation instead of lawyers. I said okay, that makes sense, and was just trying to let him do most of the talking.
Eventually I asked him if he wanted to give counseling one last try. He got upset and said that he didn’t think it was worth it- he was done, we have fundamental issues with our relationship and counseling will just bring it all back up again. He has felt so much better being out of our house, etc. And that he thought I was at a point where I realized we were over. I told him I also felt better living at the house myself because it wasn’t constantly uncomfortable.
I told him that I had been reading a lot of books about relationship dynamics and that I was now aware of things I had done to hurt the relationship and I wanted to work on myself. I also told him that I believed since we had made a vow and commitment in our marriage we owed it to ourselves and to the marriage to work on it and that we hadn’t worked on it before. I also told him that I believed we had a good relationship before but that it had been broken for the past year and we did nothing to fix it. He said at this point, after separating he didn’t think we would ever be able to get over it or forget all that had happened. I said that I believed we could eventually with time and hard work.
He said he was feeling really anxious now because he thought we had moved past the point where I thought a reconciliation was possible. I apologized for making him feel anxious and for calling before we both had to work. I told him that one thing I had realized through all of this is that I will be okay with or without him but that I’d rather be with him. I told him I didn’t believe we had fundamental issues in our marriage- that our issues and failure to address them had made them become huge issues. I also said that I had realized through all of this that we can only make ourselves happy.
I had to end the call while we were still talking because I had to get in to my class. Such a dumb idea. I was on the verge of tears and feeling like I might be sick starting out my day- something I never want my students to see and I have been so good about hiding my emotions at work.
I told my H that I would call him later on when my day is done and we can talk more. I’m so anxious and upset now. WHY DID I CALL!? I had been so strong and through away all of my hard work over the past month. What should my next step be when I call him later? Or should I just email him? Take the anxiety out of it for both of us.
i'm so sorry for you. i know exactly how that anxiety feels and it's so hard to bear and not release. it comes and goes. i'm not there now but if my H mentions D again, i'll be right with you.
i wish i knew what to tell you other than i've done what you've done and felt what you've felt. the vets will have to tell you what to do next but i just wanted to express empathy for you with your fear.
(((())))
Yikes, and now I just got this email from my husband. Trying to not cry at work.
I was going to try and hold off on writing an email but I'm suddenly very anxious about the whole thing. If it came out strong this morning, I'm sorry but it's kind of how we have to be at this point. We're at two different perspectives right now but from my end I just don't see how trying to work things out is going to change anything. I'm just much happier now. I don't have nightmares, my work is better, I'm probably in the best shape of my life, I feel like I'm getting along better with mom as I don't pick on her. Overall I just don't have the anxiety that I had before. When I step back I see just how stressed and worked up I was. The eye twitch for months, the muscle spasms for months, the neck problems, the angry flip outs, the laziness. It just wasn't for me. It was nothing specific you did, I just don't think us in a relationship worked and I don't think it will work. That's without even saying that this separation will hang over our heads.
Our talk this morning was distressing for me. I understand that we shouldn't rush the process but I also don't want to hang in limbo for months and months. I'm ready to move forward. I'm ready to start dating again. That's probably quick to you but to me it's not. I've been checked out for a while. A lot of people are going to think I'm an a-hole and probably already do. I'm being selfish, I realize that, but I'm ok with the consequences. I know for me, what I want to do. I guess it's part of the "new" me but I really don't give a sh* what anyone else thinks.
I respect you. I haven't said one bad word about you to anyone. I tell people it was me and me alone. Not looking to play the "look how chivalrous I am" card. Like you said, i want this to end amicably. Whatever it is that you need I'll be open to. I 'm going to continue paying as much as I can on the house, if you need any money between now and when the house sells I can help you out. You might not believe it, especially after this email but I truly do want you to be happy. I'm glad you feel better now that we're way from one another.
You called because you're hurting and you can't believe it's over. You thought maybe you could finally say it in a way he would understand.
It didn't work, move on from it. There's nothing to be accomplished by beating yourself up over it.
I would suggest you not call him tonight.
Let sleeping dogs lie, ever hear that phrase?
My new favorite acronym: before I start talking think WAIT-Why Am I Talking?
Do something nice for yourself today.
Thanks labug- Should I respond to his email? I just don't get how this all came on so fast. And he is saying all these anxiety issues- were they caused by me? That makes me feel horrible. And he is already ready to date! Agh. Makes me think something probably WAS going on with the woman he was texting with- maybe not physical but heading there. What am I going to do? My life is literally falling apart.
I actually am getting a massage after working and then going to a jewelry party. I didn't intend on buying anything but maybe now I will.
I'd keep the email because it might be helpful as he made monetary promises.
There is nothing to respond to. He's made his position clear.
Last Resort Technique. You've told him how you feel. If he wants to file, he will. Let that be his job.
GAL, do nice things for you, become the person you want to be.
Hi Maggie,
I'm new here too and all of my posts seem to still being moderated and taking days to appear.
I don't have too much to add apart from that our situations sounds eerily similar (expect that my H is currently working overseas and we've been married for 12+ years).
When my H first asked for space in January I thought I was giving it to him by only emailling him once a week or so, and keeping all the emails short, happy and newsy. In retrospect I'm not not sure whether I should have gone completely NC or, disregarded his request for space and moved abroad with him (despite him saying at the time he didn't think it was a good idea).
Fast forward to now, I asked him to consider R during a visit in April, he said he'd consider it, went back abroad, I found out his is involved in EA possibly PA, confronted him, told him I still want to R. Got email from him saying he is not willing to work on our relationship, plans on working abroad for forseeable future and thinks it best if we agree to end this chapter of our relationship. I send email back saying I either want to R or will need to start moving on with my life without him and ask him to sign house over to me.
He sends terse reply saying we can discuss any division of assets and possible separation/R in July. Think he only mentioned R to get me to be quiet. Friends/family now suggesting I go to solicitor.
I think the only thing we can both do now is take the advice to go (and stay) completely NC.
I have been saving EVERYTHING. Should I contact an A? When we bought our house my parents gifted me a significant amount of money towards the house. I want to make sure I get that back when we sell our house. We bought the house pre-marriage so I am guessing that I would be entitled to that.
I consulted and attorney about 2 weeks after H moved out, just to know what was what.
Forewarned is forearmed.
Is it expensive to consult??
I guess it would depend on where you are, what the going rate is.
Are you in a no fault state?
Call around.
Where I live when there are no children its an automatic 50/50 split based on the value of the assets at the date of separation. This would leave me in a horrible financial position while H would walk away with around $100k in his pocket and $3000 a month in disposal income.
I'm trying to see if there are any ways I can start protecting myself now (e.g. investigating ways I can lower the value of our assets on paper) before he (or I) start formal separation proceedings. If the laws in your area are similar I would suggest you start doing the same.
I looked and I am in a no fault state. Things are much nicer today. I responded briefly to his email basically just saying that I wish we could have had that conversation face to face and that while I am glad he no longer feels stressed I will not allow myself to feel guilty for causing it. I did not mention the part about him being ready to date. How could I possibly handle that calmly or politely. He responded apologizing and we have had a few emails back and forth regarding bills and our house. I mentioned maybe getting a roommate because I am afraid to lose all the money we had put down on the house bc our value has dropped so much. He said he likes that idea and would be willing to continue paying the difference in the mortgage if I did bring in a renter. I also said that I didn't want this horrible situation to turn us into horrible people and he agreed. This is so hard when you still love someone.
I've decided I will stop wearing my ring on weekends and over the summer will completely stop wearing it. That way it won't be as noticeable to my students and parents. I also just took the picture of us down from my desk
Maggie,
Just read your whole story. I'm very sorry for what you're going through, and can empathize with your pain. All I really have to say is that I encourage you to really focus on GAL. Try as much as possible to not contact H at all and try have as much fun as you possibly can. Your H knows what hes doing is selfish, and thus, he's being an a-hole. Maybe he'll wake up, realize he's 30, and figure out that at 30, it's time to be a man. Then again, maybe he wont. While he's figuring that out, take the time to find out who you are, who you want to be, and how you can become that person. Again, go have some fun!
You mentioned your 180s were communication based, and it was hard to show H because you weren't communicating with H anymore. W and I also had poor communication. One thing she told me is I never complimented her, and gave her words of affirmation (Read 5 Love Languages if you haven't already). The thing is, I realized I don't need W to practice these things. I started complimenting friends, co-workers, or just anyone I had contact with. I took the criticisms and complaints that W had and figured, maybe this is a complaint that everyone has of me. Why not try fix this for everyone. At the very least, you'll be ready for your next relationship, whether that is with H, or a new man.
Take care of yourself, and have a great weekend!
Maggie, I'm also in a similar situation. My H turns 33 in two weeks and is currently dating a girl in her early 20s. At least your H told you he's ready to date, mine has been saying recently that he wasn't, but didn't keep this hidden very well. I also think it's a midlife crisis. His son's stepfather joined the military three months before we separated and we knew we had a good chance of not being able to see him as much. And his father moved out when he was 9 or 10 and started a life with another woman and he's never been able to forgive him.
I'm trying to take it day by day, but it's very hard. I'm trying to do things for myself-take classes, spend time with friends who understand what I'm going through, and keep busy. We also have a house we're trying to sell, so sometimes I have to contact him about that, but I'm really trying not to contact about anything else. He's been my best friend for years, so I understand wanting to send a quick text to tell him about something, but right now that's not what he needs. I also nagged about housework and other things, so I've made a decision to be only positive in all of my interactions from now on. He's been out of town all week and haven't communicated since Monday, but I'm going to try my best to keep out all negativity. I know it's really hard, but from what I've been reading, that's exactly what we have to do.
That's great advice Ben. I think I will do that!! I've already been trying to fill people's buckets after a book I read. I think of myself and I think I am very positive, happy, I make people feel good. But then i think back to my R and I think I got to a point where I wasn't doing that as much to H. Although that goes both ways- he wasn't giving me much to praise him for.
Just cried my whole ride home from work- about 25 minutes. Now I'm going to go to the gym. Hopefully that will help. I called my mom for some emotional support and that usually makes things worse as she is a fixer not a listener. I mentioned the roommate idea and she did not support it. She was like you just need to get out of that house it's not going to be a good situation, etc. I told her I need to take smaller steps- this is a lot at once and I have nowhere to go. She said I could live there (no!) or find a place. I love my house. I just can't bare losing EVERYTHING all at once. She doesn't get that.
I find weekends a challenge in my GALing. Most of my friends are married or pregnant. Plus I wonder what H is doing all weekend. Ugh.
H and I were always into horse racing and usually did fun stuff during each triple crown race. I feel anxious bc I want to do something fun for the derby but my gf's aren't into it and I'm nervous to see my H out.
My husband emailed me this morning that he is coming by this afternoon to cut the lawn. He wrote
Hi Maggie,
I'm going to come by today and cut the grass. It's going to rain the rest of the week and I won't be around this weekend to do it. I'll probably be there at 430 or so.
I didn't respond. I'm not going to because there is nothing to respond to. We are past our one month of not seeing each other and frankly I don't think I should have to leave the house each time he comes, which I think he assumes I will. I think he wants to avoid me to ease his own guilt. I had planned on doing yard work as well this afternoon as it is beautiful today. So I think I will just stick with that plan and be pleasant when he sees me. I'll try to look as nice as possible for doing yard work. A friend asked me to walk her dog so I think I will leave and go do after a bit. Does this sound okay?
I've gotten to the point where I am starting to feel really negatively towards him- thinking things like, do I want to even be with someone who could have done this to me and to my family?, etc. I'm not sure if this is good or bad. But then I'll get nostalgic too, and sad for him and all he is losing, which to be honest I really do believe he is losing out on a lot more than I am. I had ended an email on Friday (we emailed a few times regarding house stuff) and said something along the lines of I don't want this situation to turn us into awful people because that is not who we are. He responded something along the lines of "I agree, I will try to make this as amicable as possible" and that really p'ed me off. Almost like he was doing me a favor by being nice- as if I had done something horrible to him and he was being a nice guy by trying to be amicable. I was never anything but a loving, supportive, trustworthy, selfless partner. I realize he in his mental state needs to make me the bad guy, but that doesn't make it easier to swallow.
This probably won't show up right away because I'm still stuck in moderation but just in case. . .
What if you weren't home at 4:30? How long does it take him to mow the lawn? Could you come home about 10 minutes before he'll be done, looking great like you just came from somewhere fun? Maybe go out and treat yourself to something or a meal/coffee with a friend so you're in a great mood when you get there? Just a thought.
Well- he is still being a jerk to me. I was nice to him though. He made so many snide little remarks. I wrote them down to look at them when I miss him.
Verab I wish I had seen this and done this plan instead of being home and having him seem kind of annoyed that I was there, and then be grumpy to me.
Today I got an email from his best friend, who I had been kind of upset with because he had not reached out to me (we had become very close). I had written him an email and then not sent it but felt better getting it out. Anyways- basically his friend emailed me saying he felt terrible that everything was happening and that I had become a good friend to him and that he hopes for the best for me.
I don't know if I should respond and if I do, what I should respond. He also said that he hasn't reached out because he knew this had been tough for me (which makes no sense to me).
Maggie,
I'd suggest not responding, but if you do, just thank him for the kind thoughts and leave it at that. This guy is your H's friend. Your H will resent you if you start teaming up with his friends IMO. There is no reason to have a R with him at this point so just leave it. You wouldn't want your friends interacting with your H either I'm guessing.
And I agree with verab's idea. Try do that next time.
You are right. I'll just write thanks. I know I can not have R's with his friends but I really thought of them as mine too. I want his friends as at least allies so if at any point he starts coming around to trying again they will be encouraging.
I emailed a high school friend that is an attorney today. I am just looking for a recommendation for someone I can consult with. I want to be informed. I also checked some books out of the library about being financially savvy during a divorce.
My H and I had filed a domestic partnership a few years back with his work. When I was finishing grad school and had to do an internship I quit my job and we did this so I could go on his insurance. Someone mentioned that this may mean that in the eyes of the state it may make our marriage longer than when we had our actual wedding, etc. Anyone know anything about this?
He makes more money than me, and has a good 401k, plus no student loans and we just paid off his car. I have a bunch of student loans and a brand new car payment with a nice huge loan (that he was going to help pay towards). Plus, when we bought our home my parents gave us a large sum of money towards the down payment, which I feel I should be entitled to when/if we sell our house. Tomorrow I am taking all of our tax info and photocopying it, just in case. Ugh.
Maggie I'm sorry that he acted grumpy and snide toward you! Maybe someday I'll be out of moderation when I have a good idea and it can be helpful in time!
I agree that a simple "Thanks, I really appreciate your email" email to H's friend would be appropriate. Not that you'd be creating an ally per se, but no one would be served if the friend thought you were a jerk for not responding.
It's good to have copies of all your financials. Even if you might not need them, I was comforted once I knew I had everything in one place. An L should be able to advise whether the domestic partnership will affect the length of your "marriage" in the eyes of your state.
I wrote back "Thanks, I hope you are doing well".
Since my H comes to the house when I am not home I just wanted to make sure I had copies of everything in case he takes something. I don't think he would, but then again I never thought this whole crisis would happen. His mom has been divorced 2x so I think she could advise him of things. I don't think my family has ever even used an attorney other than for home things so they can offer me no advice!
I just heard a quote I liked (on Real Housewives of all places!). "Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond". I had heard that before but I guess it really resonated with its timeliness!
One of my friends from childhood (who went through something very similar a few years ago) invited me to go to a concert with him and some of his single coworkers on Saturday. If my H is ready to start dating well then I am ready to start flirting (though not really ready to meet anyone).
Just got home from counseling. My counselor said again that she believes my husband just doesn't want to be married and it's not really because of me. She said the stress email kind of points that out. She said she has seen this same situation twice before. So crazy.
Having a hard day. Thinking about mothers day. I was hoping my H and I would be getting pregnant soon. So sick of people saying "at least you didn't have kids"- like that makes my situation any less difficult. I cried while buying a mother's day card for my mom today. So embarrassing- especially since the card aisle was crowded.
Wondering if I should send me mother in law an email wishing her a happy mother's day. I know this has been hard on her but I'm not sure if that will be nice or make her upset to get. When my H left on Monday I said 'wish your mom a happy mothers day for me' as a way of reminding him too. We always had mothers day at our house
(((Maggie)))
I miss my H as well. We all used to go to a champagne brunch at the local golf club. He asked last night if we were going to that and I said no. He asked why and I just said it does not feel the same.
You are not alone. I understand and just because you don't have kids doesn't make it easier for sure.
Take care of yourself!
I'm just so angry. I'm home doing yard work on a beautiful Saturday while he is out doing whatever. He wants to keep our house and have me live here and get a roommate and he will continue to pay a portion of the mortgage- but not his full share- bc he wants to get an apartment and is 'broke'
From his longer commute while living with his mom. At first I wanted to do this too but I'm changing my mind. Why should I keep up the inside
Of the home, pay all the bills and do yard work on our over 1 acre property when he gets to just cut the lawn once every week. It's not fair.
Happy mothers day to you Wishing- and to all the other moms on here. Hope you are all doing something nice and relaxing tomorrow.
Hi Maggie,
I've just read your whole thread.
First you showed huge growth and dedication to stick to that N/C for so long. There's no way I could have sat inside while he cut the grass.
I can empathize with a lot of what you said about who you became during your marriage. I would suggest making a list of who you were before (including the things that attracted him to you) and trying doing those things to make you feel better. Even if it's small like getting a weekly manicure!
No one here can say whether or not he will change his mind or the two of you will work things out .... or if that's what you even want.
Continue to take care of yourself. Oh and yes people say some horrible things. Also I get you on the wanting to have kids front. But I have a coworker who got pregnant when she wasn't even trying at 40! So just trust that things will happen in time. 4 years ago I met two wonderful girls. One had just ended a 7 year relationship and the other was heartbroken over her divorce. Today one is married and starting IVF, the other is pregnant and just bought a gorgeous house with her BF. They are amazingly happy and I remember when they thought they'd be living in a group home with cats! haha
Thanks Brit- my LRT doesn't seem to be working in terms of making my husband miss me but it is definitely helping me with detaching.
Yesterday I was at my sisters for mothers day and playing with my oldest nephew- it was the first time I had laughed hysterically in 4 months. It felt really good.
I sent my mother in law a happy mothers day email (that was basically all it said). She responded this morning talking about how she took a trip with a friend to get away from all the stress and how she is sleeping better now, etc. so both her and my H are doing great. I wanted to respond "that's nice I sleep in 4 hour increments" but I didn't. Instead I sent her and my H a video of my nephew being adorable yesterday (and I'm laughing in the background).
My sister made up a story of how my H moved to Africa to study elephants and he has no phone or computer to get them to stop asking for him. She said they could write him a letter but he is probably too busy to write back
My H loved my nephews- I don't get how he can give them up too. My heart breaks each time they ask for him.
Journaling-
Just had a huge AHA moment while reading "How to Improve your Marriage Without Talking About It". There is a page that lists what depression can look like in men. My H has so many of these behaviors, including a family history on both sides. I guess I always thought of depression as like the commercials- a dark room with the shades drawn, sleeping all day.
Journaling-
Just had a huge AHA moment while reading "How to Improve your Marriage Without Talking About It". There is a page that lists what depression can look like in men. My H has so many of these behaviors, including a family history on both sides. I guess I always thought of depression as like the commercials- a dark room with the shades drawn, sleeping all day.
That book is literally filled with AHA moments for me. Great resource, glad to hear it is helping you!
I should read that book. H has a family history of mental illness and depression. Might just give me some insight.
Emailed H today because one of our pets is sick. He said he may quit volunteering at the animal shelter bc of this- when there is no way he could have gotten our pet sick through transfer since he doesn't live at home. I feel like he just wants another out of our life together ( even though we split weeks at the shelter now). I feel upset because I was justifying to myself that he was still a good guy since he volunteered. If he wants out of even that then I really can't see any qualities of the man I loved
WH- I'd suggest it even with no family history of depression. It's very interesting.
Maggie,
I am kind of in the same position. My H--who left a month ago--loved our dogs more than anything in the world. His MLC, if that's what it is, I truly believe, was triggered by our dog's death three years ago. The fact he could walk away from the dogs he loved so much really showed me that something was really wrong in his head. There is no way he would have done that.
WofP
Thanks for mentioning that book. I know I read it last year when H started asking for a D, but didn't think he was suffering from depression at the time, so I probably skipped over that. I plan to head to the library and read through it one more time.
Does anyone know of good threads that explain WAH's more?? I've found the support thread for WAS but was looking more for one that explains the mindset more, why they say the things they do, etc.
^^I'd be interested in that, too.
Have you actually read DR or DB? That explains things pretty well.
I read DR and most of DB but I guess I'd rather read those types of threads with real people, conversations had, what worked vs what didn't.
That's just the point. Everyone's case is different. Did you actually write out the list of things you need changing and then writing out a solution for each? I would suggest doing that first.
While it's great reading other people's posts, the only situation that matters in the end is yours.
My H told me he was happy even when I knew he wasn't then months later didn't call it depression but admitted that he had been in "an emotional funk" for months maybe years. Reading that how to improve book really makes me see all the reasons why....
use the search function to search WAH and you might find some info...but yes there is no recipe. Your sitch is yours alone. However reading other's insights can be helpful!
I did make my list of 180s but they are difficult to put into action since I have no communication with my husband other than occasional email which ONLY deal with home maintenance issues. Still, when I do email him I will try to give a compliment and be positive, ie "The grass looks really good, thanks for cutting it. Hope you are doing well" . Since that is about it in terms of our communication there isn't much more for me to show him I'm doing 180's. His complaints about me during "the bomb" were so crazy, contradictory, etc that I don't even know how to do 180's regarding them. One minute it was I'm too dependent, the next minute I'm too independent. So I am just doing 180's on things that I don't really like about myself.
I am trying to take Ben's advice and practice my 180's on others...but that is difficult because I don't generally argue with anyone else and that was what my 180's are around. This morning while talking with my mom who was upset at one of my uncle's I gave her a suggestion which would be a 180 from her usual behavior (and also my own with my H). Also after reading about shaming in males I am trying to discipline/encourage my male students in different ways.
I was looking more for the WAH strands for reinforcement....seeing on a thread that when my H said he "never loved me" was a typical script and not really a reflection of our relationship honestly made me feel about 1,000,000,000 times better. And for more ideas on how to improve our relationship. While our situation is obviously unique I notice it has many similarities to other situations.
Maggie, you need to figure out who you are, who you want to be. The work you do is for yourself, to move you closer to that vision.
This is not be become someone who fits what you H might want. You couldn't maintain it even if you could ascertain what it might be.
Figure out what YOU need to change to be more in line with who YOU want to be.
You are in charge of your happiness.
My H came by to do yardwork today. I was very friendly in the arrangements. When he showed up I was on my way down the street on a walk. We just said hello. When I got home I quickly changed into a cute outfit- I was meeting a friend for drinks and dinner. He came in the house while I was changing and I was very friendly, showing him a cute video of one of our pets and asking how things were, discussing yard ideas, etc. I then told him two pieces of bad news 1)our dishwasher seems to be breaking and 2) I almost had two friends moving in but found out today one is allergic to animals. He took the news in stride. He agreed that I wouldn't want a random roommate. He then told me he is thinking of moving in with roommates back into our old neighborhood
I also know that possible OW works around that area. I was very nice and non-chalant. Told him I needed to go get ready because I had to meet a friend at 6. We didn't say bye. When I got home I found 2 receipts from places 2 states away from this weekend...where OW happens to be from
Oh- and the reason I came on here was because he also mentioned that he has sold off some of his stocks....I feel like that is a bad financial decision he normally wouldn't make but am wondering if he is doing this to "hide" money from me.
Hi Maggie,
Glad to hear how you handled his most recent visit. His statement about the stocks is a little bit concerning - do you have joint accounts (where you might be able to see any activity)? Is any of your money separated from his (so that you have your own resources)?
Yes we have a joint checking account and separate / savings checking accounts. Then we have a savings account which is in my name but we both paid into and could access electronically. I changed the password to that as soon as he
Moved out. I have hidden our tax folders. I don't contribute to his stocks but was told any stocks purchased while married are 50/50. His
Mom is twice divorced and his friend is an attorney so I'm wondering if they suggested this. He keeps saying he is broke but I found these dinner receipts which suggest he took a trip so...
Ugh- can't stop thinking about the fact that my H probably went away with the OW to her home town. So gross. I don't even know who is he anymore. And it was mother's day! Old H would never have not spent Mother's Day with his mom
I feel so bad for his mom too who has to sit back and watch while he self destructs.
I struggled with this and then two weeks ago I don't know what happened I just accepted. It's scary because you think if they're dating - we'll never work out, if they take trips - we'll never work out, if they move in together - we'll never work out. It's all fear. You can drive yourself crazy wondering and you may think you want to know more but the more you know the more it hurts.
Do your best to STOP thinking about it. all the energy you put on their R takes away from you and your R with yourself. You have to put the focus on you.
Youre so right Brit- I am just struggling to do it. Mine isn't fear so much, because I don't think I even want an R with him anymore, I think mine is anger. Anger that he could do this to me (I should add that one of the receipts was for brewery with 2 locations- we met at the other and it was kind of our thing. He told me he almost proposed there and we looked into hosting our reception there, etc. so I feel like that's the ultimate betrayal).
I just woke up from the angriest dream. In it I confronted him in my old style of yelling and screaming and we got into a huge fight. I even screamed at his mom (who weirdly in the dream was my coworker). He told me his mom loved the OW and knew everything and was happy for him. I woke up with a stiff jaw, neck and a headache. Hoping some exercise will help.
I know where you are coming from Maggie. I just found out H took OW up by his family for Mother's Day and they were NOT happy about it. And he spent a whopping one hour with his mother. Our H's are delusional.
I just woke up from the angriest dream. In it I confronted him in my old style of yelling and screaming and we got into a huge fight. I even screamed at his mom (who weirdly in the dream was my coworker). He told me his mom loved the OW and knew everything and was happy for him. I woke up with a stiff jaw, neck and a headache. Hoping some exercise will help.
oh man I've been there....I knew that H's friend was having a birthday party and my fear was in overdrive. He would bring her, they would all like her more than me. I'm friends with so many of them on FB I'd end up seeing pics of them together, etc. I even woke up in the middle of the night and checked the friend's FB page. Then I had a crazy dream and woke up with my hands clenching the slats in the headboard so hard they ached all day the next day, ground my teeth so much my head hurt. I was so embarrassed of that. and told no one besides my IC. But I want you to know it gets better.
The next week he told me he did take her and I felt like all the blood drained my body. It gets better. I'm not totally fine and happy with it all...just read my post from today...but it does get better. It nothing you want to hear but it's true it takes time.
Advice needed
One of my friends- who I met through my H as they were friends but we have become good friends- came to visit me this weekend. She told me she has an email drafted to my husband- has for awhile now. She asked me if she could send it. She basically told me what it says. Her and her H had similar issues a few years ago and worked things out. She talks about that and how when they had issues she reached out to people but nobody knew what to say or wanted to get involved (my H and I included- but in our defense I didn't know how bad things were until after the fact). She says she wished someone had written them an email like the one she was sending- that marriage is hard work but worth it, that we were a couple that other people admired because we were such good friends and always had fun, etc. I'm asking for advice- do I give her permission to send or ask her not to? I don't think it will change anything but it does feel good to know someone other than me wants to stand up for our marriage and what it was.
What a lovely gesture. I'd love to have someone like that around.
Personally (not knowing your friend), if someone did that for me, I would thank them for their kindness and strength at the offer to put something like that out there for others to know, but say that I didn't think it would be appropriate for me to say whether they should or should not send it. At worst, it would look like you asked her to do it and that would read like pursuing. Maybe ask that if she does send it (not asking her TO do it, but IF she does), that she makes clear that you had no part in it.
Anyone else?
Thanks Vera- I agree it was very sweet of her. I'm sure there are people who want to do the same on your part but it is such a difficult position to be in and not know what is crossing boundaries.
She said it starts out saying something to the effect of "Maggie has no idea I am writing you this" although I guess now I do.
She's put you in a tough position because if you say yes that's fine and she sends the letter with that line then you're lying to him. If I were you I would say whatever communication you have with him is your decision. So if you do decide to talk to him about your views on marriage I'd rather not know.
Now whether it's a good idea for a friend to tell a WAS that they may be acting hasty is a whole other kettle of fish. In my situation I wasn't listening to anyone. But everyone is different.
Good point Brit. She basically told me what the email said too so I guess it would be lying, even though it wasn't like I asked her to write to him. I think I will tell her what you said- that it is her call if she decides to do it or not. I think it felt cathartic for her to reach out to him, as they are (were? she's pretty p.o.'ed at him) friends.
My other question for all you wise DB'ers is this: Basically my H comes by once every week and a half or so after work and cuts our lawn. Our yard is large and we have maybe 7 or so different beds of shrubs, flowers, etc. They are all overgrown, weedy and looking horrible. He never mulched this year or did any of the work to get our yard in shape after this spring. Outdoor stuff was usually his area (with help from me under his direction) as he has a green thumb and I sadly do not. I also cannot do most of this stuff as I am too small and struggle even starting the leaf blower. I tried to burn all the brush I collected and the fire got out of control and my neighbor luckily ran over to help put it out. This same neighbor has been helping with some of the lawn stuff because I think he feels so bad for me. I have been trying my best but I just can't do it. I have been working almost every Friday evening and Sunday at my part time job because I am so worried about money while also trying to do fun things to keep me busy and GAL. Today on my way to work I broke down crying and called my dad to come help me next weekend. My parents live over an hour away and while they have come to help with some stuff they also care for my sister's three young children and my dad still works part time. We cannot afford to pay a lawn care company for maintenance. I'm already annoyed that he is still having a lawn care company come out for treatments- it makes no sense to have them treat the grass in a yard that looks ridiculous with overgrowth and weeds everywhere.
My question is- how do I approach my H about more help? Right now he is paying extra on top of his mortgage payments to help me with my car loan. I don't want to jeopardize this or risk him not coming to help at all. I am feeling frustrated because I think he is not willing to give up his newly active social life on weekends. He wants to keep our house and have me get roommates to help with the mortgage (he will continue to pay some) I'm guessing until home values climb back up. I also don't want him to change his mind and have us lose a ton on our home.
My thought was possibly emailing his mom and explaining this to her and asking her if she can somehow plant the idea in his head that he needs to come do more than cut the lawn. I know he helps her with her yard (we both used to) too, but she can at least afford to pay someone else to come help her. I don't want to have to run to his mom every time there is an issue, which I feel like I had done before after the bomb. Ideas? Concerns?
My first draft- obviously I have to take some parts (his social life) but d*mn they felt good to type out
Thoughts?
Hi MIL,
Hope everything is well with you and you are enjoying this beautiful weather. Has (sick friend) heard anything back? I am hoping she is okay. I am glad to hear you had a nice trip and that you are keeping busy and sleeping better.
I am writing to you because I am not sure how to approach H and was hoping maybe you could say something to him in a way that won't upset him. He is coming by and cutting the lawn, which I appreciate, but more needs to be done than a cut every week and a half or so. The beds are all overgrown, weeds everywhere and the yard just looks like crap. I have tried to get some yard work done each weekend, but I am working every Sunday at my part time job and most Friday nights as well because I am so concerned with money, plus keeping up the inside, paying the bills, taking care of the pets and also trying to get out and do some fun things for myself to help with my emotional recovery. I've asked my dad to come one day next weekend and help me and he has said he will, but this does not seem fair as it is not his yard to maintain. My concern is that I will anger H by even mentioning it and he will push to sell the house sooner, causing us to lose money, or stop contributing as much financially.
This week he said he would be by on Sunday morning to do some things. He did not show up. I understand he is out having fun (dating as he nicely told me) and that this is helping to ease his anxiety but it is not fair that my anxiety is getting higher and higher as this is not a situation I wanted and I am feeling completely overwhelmed. I don't want to put you in the middle, as that is not fair to you, but am hoping you could mention something to him, like maybe he needs to take a full weekend day and go work on our yard. I will gladly leave why he is there, or help if he wants me to, but I simply cannot, and should not, be expected to do this all alone.
I don't know your R with your MIL but I would say this is not the right this to do at all.
I don't want to have to run to his mom every time there is an issue, which I feel like I had done before after the bomb.
So perhaps approaching him directly and not going through his family would be a good 180.
I know how this feels...something small like an overgrown flower bed comes to represent his lack of care and attention to something you once shared.
You struggling with that leaf mower, talking to a neighbour and your Dad about it makes you feel like you're dealing with all the boring responsible things while he's off living the high life.
You're scared that if you bring it up, or do anything to challenge him he'll change your living situation.
As ScaredSilly would tell me (or you in this situation) you're making a decision based on fear.
What if this was a roommate whose job it was to look after the lawn how would you approach it?
Uggh, well old me would be passive aggressive and be nice to roommate's face but be raging inside and probably talk about roommate with a friend while continuing to try and do it all myself. So, you bring up an excellent point.
How is this? Trying to make it light, not shaming him for the fact he hasn't been doing it without me even asking.
Hi H,
The yard is looking pretty shabby. Was wondering if you could come by one day and get some trimming, weeding, etc done in addition to the mowing? I'll continue to do the things I am able to do, but you know me and my black thumb. My dad is coming one day next weekend but I don't know if we will be able to get it all done in one day.
Thanks,
Maggie
Oh and R with MIL- she always loved me. She drives me crazy because she is an enabler to my H (he has hypochondriac tendencies when stressed out and she would do things like "Oh regarding your headaches...I was reading about brain tumors"- ugh!). During H & my R I never went to her about issues we had, but after the bomb I started to because she was on team "Save the Marriage". She was also very confused about H's behavior, the things he was saying, etc. I think after our HUGE blowout, when I found out about texts to potential OW, MIL was supporting me and I think H scared her into thinking he would cut her out of his life. She told me that, without directly saying that.
All the more reason for you not to contact her about things between you and H. A WAS doesn't want to feel pressured by anyone or feel like people are ganging up on them.
Thanks Brit. I've also texted my friend and asked that she does not send that email.
Very new here, but I am in very similar situation with what I feel is a WAW. Only a little over a year being married and she is telling me that she shouldn't have ever said she would marry me, we never should have gotten married(2 times)... long story. and that she has moved on already and just wants divorce. That because we have only been together for a little over two years, that we will both get over it soon, and two years isn't very long anyways.
This is my marriage. We took our vows twice, and they are very important to me!
1702- just posted on your thread. Find the DB rules (sorry would find for you but it's too hard from my phone). I copied them into a document on my phone. Shared them with my sister (to help me stay on track) and read them every morning when I woke up and during hard moments.
Maggie, thanks so much. It took a while to get approved, and I am looking forward to help from this site.
So today I took the plunge and started gardening. I was going to hire someone but I can't afford it. Like you I have a black thumb. But thought I could weed out stuff from the shrubs and beds. and you know what? It was actually really good! I mean it felt good to get my hands dirty and pull out all the junk and then stand back and see it cleared. I started getting all philosophical about how it's just like DB'ing. haha
anyway I just wanted to encourage you to have a go. I left my phone inside the house. Let the dog round around me while I did it and I felt really really calm.
Only 19 days more of school so I'll have more time in the summer to invest. I actually don't mind gardening bc I love to be outside. I think it's part I don't have the time and it's part anger that I am having to do it all alone and part fear that I'll have to give up my house because I can't do it all alone or afford it.
Anyone have good tips for working out the anger? I'm trying to rethink the way I think about things, to have empathy for my H but the anger keeps creeping in...
Glad I took your advice Brit and didn't contact his mom. When I got home today I noticed a lot of weed whacking had been done. I don't know when (and it makes me a little uncomfortable if he was here- did he come in the house? I like to make sure my books are hidden before he comes!) I'm sure it makes him feel better about himself when he steps up and does something than when I have to email him asking too.
He is staying here tomorrow night to take care of our cats while I go to my sister's (nephew graduates pre-school Wednesday
but I didn't tell him why I wouldn't be home). Though he could have stopped in (as he drives past our exit on his commute) I gave him the option to stay at the house too and he chose to. I know they are only cats but they are our babies and I feel sad for him that he doesn't get to spend any time with them anymore.
He also emailed me asking if I had paid a bill, I responded thanking him for reminding me and that I paid it and he wrote back "cool", which was unnecessary and really the first time he has responded to anything when it hasn't been warranted.
My monthly "friend" is also visiting- which I think was why I was so emotional and angry the past few days towards him. Today I feel pretty calm. When we first started counseling the counselor suggested I get my hormone levels checked (H brought up that I was really emotional and b*tchy during my period but fine the rest of the month). I never did because then everything else started happening so fast but I think I am going to call about getting something to help me sleep and maybe I'll mention that too.
Someone posted some pics of a party and my H was there... He looked very happy. I wish I could feel happier about that. Maybe in time.
Maggie, I wanted to tell you I have empathy for you and the lawn work. We have 20 acres and not fancy landscaping, but a lot of mowing, weed eating, pruning needs to be done often. I have never done it but it falls on my shoulders now.
Like Brit, I can also relate to the object lessons--overgrown weeds like bad habits that get into our marriages! it feels great to get it all cleaned up!
I find the party pics with H so happy painful too. I don't know if it's better to see the pics & know what he's doing or not know. It's really tough.
I'm really sorry you had to see that. I actually find myself thinking that I'm really lucky that H's GF hasn't tagged him in any pictures. I think it might have pushed me over the edge in the past. And I feel bad when I think about all the pictures that I'd put up when I was a WAW. Especially of my massive birthday night out. It was all coworkers but I can imagine he felt left out. I remember now that he sent me a text saying that he hoped I had a wonderful night and that I deserved to have a great birthday. It breaks my heart thinking about it now.
Good job on not sending the email. One think I'm learning is that if you wait a day or two, you'll change either your wording or you'll change your mind on sending it. Monthly friend always makes me crazy too!
But I find looking back each month it gets easier and easier not to be crazy at that time. We all do things rash and silly during this process waiting helps. I just need to institute that rule more. LOL
In the beginning of this sitch, I had someone edit my emails and then waited 48hrs before sending. A lot of emails didn't get sent and those that did were pared down to a sentence or 2.
Labug- I think it was you who suggested envisioning a stop sign when I started thinking of my H with the OW. Yesterday I started wearing an elastic and I am snapping it (gently) when I think of him. Weirdly...it seems to be working....
My nephew graduates from Pre- school today. He of course asked where Uncle H was first thing this morning and if he is coming to graduation (no- he is in Africa studying elephants but he's so proud of you). Just reflecting back on the past year- and thinking about the spook walk my H and I set up for nephew's first Halloween party and all the thought H put into it and the desk my H refurbished for nephew for Christmas. Now he is missing his graduation. I just don't get how someone can have so much love for me and for my family and then wake up one day and it is all gone
Must remember to bring tissues to graduation.
Need some advice. I am very unsure what to do about my house- right now my H is still paying his portion of the mortgage (neither could afford it alone). He makes and pays more than me. We had talked about perhaps me staying and getting roommates, and idea he really liked. He said he would continue to pay a portion of the mortgage if I do get roommates.
I love our house, and feel nervous about so many changes at once, nervous to lose money if we sell our house now, etc. But it is also not really close to my family, my commute isn't horrible but can be bad at times, I have a few friends who live around here. I'm in the suburbs and feel like it may be harder to meet someone if that ends up being the route I need to take (feel pressured by time and the fact I want to have children) and my mother doesn't support me staying here (because I cannot keep up the yard myself) and she worries he will suddenly not want to pay anymore or something. Obviously if we go the route of keeping the house everything would need to be in writing. I also wonder if he has motives of keeping me on the back burner as a plan 2 if things don't work out- and if keeping me in our house is his way of doing this. He says his stress level has fallen since moving out- wouldn't getting rid of our house be the ultimate stress reducer? Or is he feeling guilty over leaving me so he is giving me blood money?
Today my H emailed me this after I sent him something about our bathroom which we had been in the process of hiring a contractor to redo when he dropped the bomb.
"Have you thought anymore about what you want to do about the house? I'm only asking because if you plan to stay in it without roomates I need to plan for that".
I'm not sure how to respond. I feel like this is a conversation we need to have in person but I'm still so all over the place. I also wonder if over email is better because then I have time to respond with thought instead of emotion, and things are in writing. I wish I didn't have to second guess every contact I have with him. I just wish someone would tell me what to do or that I had a crystal ball. How have others handled house issues?
Tomorrow is the anniversary of the day we got engaged
It's hard to think about moving because that was your house together. And it is another tie to him. It might actually be good for you to have a fresh start.
I emailed him telling him I think we need to talk and figure some things out before I make a decision one way or the other (will he be doing yard work still? What happens if we need something major done?) I kept my email very brief. He responded saying we could meet once I am out of work for the summer. That's good- will buy me more time to think about what I want. If I see him this weekend when he comes to do yard work I will nicely mention that he should be helping more with the yard.
He stayed at our house Tuesday night while I was at my sisters. I had asked him to take care of our pets. I felt frustrated when I got home yesterday. He didn't do one thing other than feed them (I usually ask him to cut their nails and brush their teeth because he does a better job than I can). I didn't ask him to this time and he didnt. He also left me a sink full of dishes. It's one thing doing his dishes when he still lives at the house and is acting like a husband but I shouldn't have to clean up after him when he is being unfaithful and doesn't want to work on our M. I didn't bother saying anything though.
H is here cutting the lawn. I put on perfume, left the sundress I wore to work on and put my hair back (he always asked me why I never wore my hair back because he liked it that way). I am being friendly- ish. He makes it so hard though. He is so cold to me and I just don't get it. Fine- cheat, leave me, whatever but don't treat me like I'm the bad guy.
He came in and asked to use my laptop to look some thing up about a tree. He is convinced its dying even though an expert came and looked at it last year and said its not. I told him i needed to get some stuff off my computer first (this site was open!!) and he was getting annoyed by having to be near me an extra 30 seconds while I closed windows and I said "I have some things on there that are not your business anymore". I hope that was okay. I'm not good at being mysterious- I am an open book type.
I told him something I planned on doing with a flower bed outside- in hopes to make it easier for me to manage. He said "As long as you're doing the work I don't care what you do". Nice. So that brought me to discussing if I do stay in the house- will he continue to do the lawn? He said yes as long as I live here and he is part owner he will cut the lawn. I told him I wanted to get that and some other things in writing before making any decisions about whether to stay in and get roommates or not. He seems like he is really itching to get out of his mom's house and into an apartment- not that I can blame him. I told him I still need to think about whether I want to move back to the city or not and that we can discuss it after I'm done school.
I'm waiting for my friend to finish some stuff so I can go meet her for dinner/ drinks and leave while he is still here. I hate that it has to be so awkward. How can you go from loving someone to hating being in the same room as them? For others this seemed to happen over time but for him it was honestly all of a sudden over maybe 3 months tops.
I think it's about time to start cutting the apron strings. I would start limiting his visits. Can you mow the lawn? I would also have told him that you appreciate him watching the pets. Then get a pet sitter next time.
Once you start showing him that you can function on your own, he'll start noticing.
Maggie,
I've been following your thread and note the similarities in our situation and the quickness of how much changed within a period of four months from H telling me I was the most important thing in his life to simply walking away without a backward glance.
WofP
Mr Bond- I hadn't really thought of the independence thing with him cutting the lawn. I guess I thought him coming back to our house, seeing our pets, etc would be a way of keeping him as "part" of my life. But what you say makes sense...he needs to see what his life will REALLY be like if we divorce- which means not getting to see our pets, which I think is the reason he still comes by.
I struggle with feeling like it would be a relief for him not to have to do yard work and it kind of kills me to make his life even EASIER after he's walked away. Pre-bomb he had pretty much shut down. I was doing everything around the house, and keeping score, resenting him, etc.
I've always been pretty independent, yet one thing he said during one of our many talks was that I had become too dependent on him (yet he also said I was too independent). I guess I could learn to cut the lawn. We have a ride on and the one time I tried it was a big lurching mess...but maybe my dad can teach me how to work it. I drive standard so how different can it be?
In terms of our pets- they are cats and totally self sufficient. It is more me babying them and wanting to keep him in the loop by having him come petsit. I fear that if I don't have him come help with the house I will never see him again, except at a L's office. He really seems to have no interest. I just don't get it
My friend emailed me saying that she had talked to her parents about our situation. She had gone through something similar with her H but they are still together. She said her dad said all these great things about how I am amazing and deserve someone who can handle me and let me be myself. I thought I had that in my H, which was why I loved him so much. He was always so supportive and he seemed like he really got me (his favorite thing to do was "Maggie stream of conscious" in the car- and he was always pretty dead on).
I've always been very happy go lucky person- in our vows he said "I love that you can make me laugh every day, smile bright and often, and care about the little things between us". I kept trying to think of that today when he was here being a d*ck to me. I went through a really crappy period with work from Sept-Dec and wasn't happy. I just can't believe that 3-4 months of being slightly unhappy could trump the 6.5 years he had known me to be very happy. Maybe it was the timing- he really needed me to support him then because his dad's death and I really needed him to support me too and we both weren't emotionally available for each other.
WofPa- I will have to read through your thread. Sometimes I wonder whether the quickness is a blessing or a curse. I imagine it is really hard to see your M die a long, slow death as well.
Maggie,
I'm with you there sister. You're right about wondering whether the quickness is a blessing or a curse. Sometimes I'm still in shock though. I have emails from him from January just simple every day stuff like calling him when I land or telling me to be careful and to go from that to just completely non-caring.
WofP
Hi Maggie,
I agree with Bond's advice. Although it seems counter-intuitive to not have your H come by to do these chores, the idea is that he would see that you do not NEED him to accomplish these things. Part of the point of DB is reminding ourselves that we can be self-sufficient. Your worrying that H's life would be "easier" if he didn't have to come over to the house to help out makes it sound like you are trying to punish him for his decision. In fact, maybe he takes it that way and that's why he's not so nice when he comes over. It does sound like, from how you described your conversation with him, that he is resentful about having to come and do these chores/tasks (especially by leaving dishes in the sink for you to clean).
You listed a number of reasons why the house is not convenient/working for you. Are the negatives still outweighed by the positive(s) (which seems to mainly be that it ties you to your H)?
I don't know that I am trying to punish him, but it just seems unfair that he can walk away from all responsibilities and that I have to pick up the slack for him.
I think the house came to represent a mistake on H's part. He would often make comments about how our realtor did a bad job, we overpaid, etc. About a year after we bought our house the local flood plains were redrawn and we are now in a flood plain which means we have to pay flood insurance (and at the highest rate). This is again something that really bothered him (it bothered me too but I loved our house and the little river it's on so I was still happy with our decision). This fact will also make it difficult to sell our house, hence my concerns that we will lose a lot of money if we do sell our house.
Would you rather him come over because he HAS to or see you because he wants to?
Do you want him to associate you with responsibility and "needing him"? What you rather have him think about you when he thinks of you?
Not asking him to do things would not only be a big 180 but would boost your self esteem. You'd get a real sense of satisfaction learning to do something and doing it on your own.
Have you talked to a realtor about pricing your house in the event that you decide to sell it? Doing that might either a) reassure you that your situation isn't as bad as you think it could be, or b) tell you that you would lose money and then you could tell H that it's best for the both of you not to sell b/c a third-party said so. Just a thought. It could take the pressure of you for either not knowing what the possible outcome is or for seeming like you are doing this for (whatever H thinks is a negative reason for doing it, doesn't matter exactly what he thinks but it's apparent that he's thinking this is a negative).
That's a good idea. Even though I'm not sure if I want to move or not at least knowing would help the decision and also a realtor might be able to recommend the renovations that will give us the most payout.
Sometimes I just think divorcing and moving all at once will be too much for me and it would be better to space them out. I also love this house and really pictured our kids playing here. Part of me wants to keep this house for when I do have kids. Then I swing back the other way and think I should just move and make life easier.
Just to clarify- I don't ask H to come do yard work. He usually emails me once a week and says what day he is coming by. I almost emailed him last week about stepping it up and doing more but I chose not to and he now seems to be taking that initiative on his own. He was here yesterday cutting the lawn and is coming Monday to do some other stuff- so that's good. I also am usually not home when he comes. I've seen him twice since the end of March- each time I've only stayed home for about 15 minutes or so and he's been outside most of that time. I've been out there for 2 hours this morning doing stuff (and working on my tan) and my dad is coming tomorrow to help with my big project.
Just to clarify- I don't ask H to come do yard work. He usually emails me once a week and says what day he is coming by. I almost emailed him last week about stepping it up and doing more but I chose not to and he now seems to be taking that initiative on his own. He was here yesterday cutting the lawn and is coming Monday to do some other stuff- so that's good. I also am usually not home when he comes. I've seen him twice since the end of March- each time I've only stayed home for about 15 minutes or so and he's been outside most of that time. I've been out there for 2 hours this morning doing stuff (and working on my tan) and my dad is coming tomorrow to help with my big project.
What we seem to be suggesting is that you already have whatever task H is going to do done and then when he emails to say he's coming by you can say "No worries, I already did it." Then watch his head implode
Maggie,
I get where you're coming from. When H threatened to leave for weeks, I thought he won't be able to find a place that takes dogs and he won't leave the dogs well, he did and then I thought, he'll come back to take them out and he didn't and then I thought when I have to go out of town for work, I'll call him and he'll have to come and take care of them and then I realized that in my mind, wanting H to come back because of obligations was the wrong approach.
I'm leaving for the first time today out of town and I've hired a dogsitter. I have to say, it was the fastest response I got from H when he inquired whether he needed to come over and I wrote back, "taken care of already. Thanks." He responded within 2 minutes saying he could do it but I just wrote back after 20 minutes saying there was no need that I had taken care of it.
WofP
Hi WofP,
Love your response to H about coming over to watch the dogs!!!
Okay so maybe after my dad comes tomorrow I'll just text H and say the yard is all set no need for you to come.
I honestly don't think I can cut the grass without some help. Maybe I can start asking my neighbor friend. The ride on mower has to be pushed out of the shed, over a raised door frame and started outside. I tried pushing it out today just to see if I could. We have a push mower which I could use but it would take forever!! I'll try next weekend when the grass needs to be cut again.
Could you get some ramps (or make them) to get them over the shed door frame? I have confidence that you'd be able to handle the riding mower once you get it outside. My grandmother used to ride hers all the time well into her 70's.
Feeling sad and frustrated today. My H proposed to me after a half marathon, which was today. I didnt do it this year but a lot of my friends did. This long holiday weekend has just seemed especially sad. Many of my friends are away.
I just keep thinking about how I don't understand how everything went so wrong in my M. How did my H get to a point where he was so unhappy he didn't even want to work on fixing our R? How can he just walk away from everything?
Last night I went to a cookout where I was the only non- couple person
Wow Maggie, good job for going to that cookout! I hope you had some fun there.
Holidays are really hard. I'm glad you went. I find that sometimes I have to force myself and then I'm glad I went.
Yes - great job on going to the cookout. I know what you mean about being bummed about there not being any other single peopel there, though
I did have fun but I find that I can't have the same type of
Fun I did before- its like my situation and my husband are always on my mind and I just am not as present or as in the moment. I get jealous at little couple moments that I see happening then I get upset with myself for being jealous. I'm going to my doctor this week- I need my anxiety med refilled and I'm going to see about getting something to help me sleep and see if she can prescribe me a low dose muscle relaxer- my jaw and shoulders and neck ache constantly from stress. I'm a clencher!
Question....
So today and yesterday I got tons of yard work done (have the blisters to prove it!). More needs to be done but I'm going to get up early before my cookout and try to get to it. The rest can wait. So I'll text H and say there is no need for him to come. Do I say something nice like "you don't need to come by so you can relax on your day off" or is that pursuing?? I'm just thinking about how he seems to villanize me and how I am someone only a fool would leave so....am I sweet about it or just straight informative?? Pretending he is a neighbor i would typically be sweet but again don't want to seem pursuing.
Texted my H saying the yard looks good and he doesn't need to come over and do anything- its too nice out for yard work. He texts back that he is stopping by anyways and am I there (I know he didn't want to come when I was home). I can't win. I feel like he resents me either way.
Was with my family today and my parents friends were over and they all were asking. Everyone is so confused. We used to go away every summer with my parents and another couple and the couple asked me today if I thought my H would show up there. So awkward.
You can't figure out what he's thinking. Good job on the yard work. he will notice it even if he doesn't say anything. Conversations with friends and family are hard. I find myself hoping no one brings it up but also wanting to talk about it. It's weird.
Holidays, routines all of that is really hard.
If he doesn't want to come by when you are there, that is his problem, not yours.
Holidays and routines are really hitting me hard, too. I think a lot of people don't want to ask, but want to ask, but don't know what to say. Don't feel bad about it yourself - it svcks for everyone.
I know- I hate that other people are uncomfortable around me though. I looked really cute today too. I kind of wished someone had taken a picture of me and posted it on FB. H quit but I know he goes on under his mom's account- I block most things from her but would unblock a cute pic
He left a ladder out and texted me that he left it out. I wrote back that I would put it away tomorrow and that the mulch he put down looks good.
I kind of wished someone had taken a picture of me and posted it on FB.
Nothing you do will make him change his mind. It's very very hard to come to that understanding but not influence, no manipulating, nothing.....you have to detach to the point that his actions don't affect you.
I feel pretty detached now but then I'll have a few days where I'm so curious. I think the holiday (and the fact we got engaged memorial day) put me over the edge this weekend.
Brit- as a former WA can you explain why he is so cold to me? I get he probably has villianized me to help himself but it just hurts. The fact that it was so quick too. Today I thought about emailing him and saying something about how it hurts that he can treat me so cold when I didn't (intentionally) do anything to hurt him. I wanted to tell him how hard it is for me to take my anger out of it and be friendly to him and try to empathize how hard it must be for him having to leave our home, etc. but that I'm being nice and he should be too. I was strong and didn't though.
All those things that you wanted to tell him: empathy, being friendly, getting rid of your anger are all things YOU have to do.
Why are you asking him to help you with your emotions?
What sort of response would you hope for?
We can mind read about why he's doing this: to minimize his pain or hurt, perhaps he thinks the less he is around you the sooner you'll heal or move on. I remember saying to someone I'n glad we have to live apart this month (before he actually moved apart) I think we need a break. He needs to be on his own. But anyway all these things are theories and in reality it doesn't matter.
It's hard for someone to have a friendly relationship with someone if one person in the friendship is needy or desperate. We've all had friends like that.
Work on you. But also accept that you may never know why he acts/acted this way. He may never be nice and friendly. He may never come back. We don't know the outcome and we have to accept what's happening now.
I think you're doing well!
Thanks for being the voice of reason for me Brit. I Need to stop trying to psycho-analyze him. I think labeling him makes me feel better- maybe because that puts all the blame on him. I am owning up to my responsibilities though- but just in my head. Went for a run and my anger pushed me to run pretty fast considering how hot it is out!!
I hope the old him comes back- even if not to me. He WAS a really good person. I hope he knows he doesn't have to repeat his dad's mistakes (what our counselor thinks is happening). Meanwhile I'll continue to work on me. I had a fun/ funny meeting today at work. I felt like the old me making jokes.
oh, maggie, yesterday and the whole weekend was hard on me, too. i completely understand. holidays are supposed to be family time and that's what we remember and why it's so hard when it's not there anymore.
i feel better today. i'm reading all the post-it papers i stuck around the house and it helps me.
take care of yourself!
SS- what are the post it's that you stick around the house? I love learning the little things other people do.
well, i learned it here. someone said they did it and i then did. they are inspirational posts. i put them in the places where i usually am in the house. i have one taped to my laptop:
"never violate the sacredness of your individual self-respect."
another on my vanity mirror:
"just when you think it can't get any worse, it can.
and just when you think it can't get any better, it can."
and one of my favorites:
"even on my weakest days, i get a little stonger."
i have probably about 10-15 more around the house; on my desk, on either side of the kitchen sink, on my mirror in the bathroom.
i read them daily and they help.
Oh I like that. I often write down quotes from books I like in my little journal. Maybe I will do that so I can actually keep re-reading them on a daily basis.
Feeling very happy today! Hope it stays!
That is great Maggie!! Hold on to that! It's amazing how a new day can bring new feelings and new opportunities!!
Maggie I am so happy that you are feeling like you and making jokes in the meeting! Cherish that feeling and enjoy it and it will grow!
I feel like my H is making some of his Dad's mistakes as well. As much as we may want the best for them it's their choice. Nothing we can do or say can change that.
Acceptance.
So tell us what have you done for you lately? Why do you think you're feeling this way?
I think because I have been working out this week, plus had stuff after work each day that kept me busy and I've gotten a lot of compliments lately, which always helps. It may have been getting that yard work done this weekend too. Proving myself so to speak.
The past 2 days when I have signed on to my gmail and my H was on he didn't sign off. It was really irking me that he was doing that when I hadn't signed on to chat with him. I sign in like once a day- always have- to check my email. Guess he finally gets that I'm not going on there seeking him out. That kind of feels good too.
Last night I had a little work party and got home late. When I got home the motion light was on and it pretty much only turns on when you walk in our driveway. It kind of freaked me out. Then this morning I went to put the ladder H had left out away and it was gone. I freaked out thinking someone had stolen it. H had texted me Monday saying he left it out and could I put it away. I then found the ladder put away in a weird spot outside. I think h must have come to the house- and late. I don't think he came in the house bc ladder was still outside. I feel like I may need to speak with him- did he come to see if I had put the ladder away? Does he make a habit of driving by? He is staying at his moms a half hour away and passes our exit from work but it's a good 10-15 min out of his way. Very weird.
So I think I have almost completely detached from my H and our M. I have barely thought about him at all, and when I do think of him it really isn't with any fondness but not with anger either. I guess this is a good thing but I am wondering if this all happened too fast and at some point I am going to get a smack in the face of emotions because I processed too fast? I have also been getting quite a bit of male attention- and though I am not trying to validate myself through men, it feels good to know that I've still got it and all of the wounds he inflicted on my ego through the bomb, telling me he had never been attracted to me, etc seem to be healing.
Yesterday I got into a minor fender bender-rear ended in my brand new car
I handled it very cool, didn't cry (which would have been my old reaction) and realized a few hours later that I didn't even THINK of calling or texting my H. I didn't even call my mom until a bit later, just got back in my car and headed to my destination. It made me feel more adult to have handled it that way...granted, I haven't filed a police report or called my insurance yet.
I also got a text last night from one of H's friend's wife, who I had been close with. Her and her husband were the other couple we socialized with the most. She asked if I wanted to do something, but I already had plans so we decided we'd get together soon. It felt good to know that I can still maintain relationships with his friends who became "our" friends. That was one thing I had been really feeling sad about. And I know her and I have enough in common that our friendship doesn't have to be based around our marriages.
You sound like you're doing amazing!!! I'm so happy for you. It feels weird when H comes to what is now your place without you there. It's a strange minefield though and I regretted talking about it.
I've learned that I'll feel detached and something will take me down a bet. That's why so many of us loved the idea of learning to float. The "waves" will come through and you'll go back and forth and it's trying to remember that it's all just emotions that will pass through. I had a tough time with it today. But try to remember this feeling and it will carry you through the next time.
Really happy you're feeling independent and confident!
Brit- why was today hard for you?
I know- I'm nervous that me feeling so good is going to cost me in the long run. Like I'm avoiding the feelings. Hard to feel bad when things seem to be going well.