Part 6 here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2234801&#Post2234801Thanks I will continue to pull back. Continue to council. Continue to read my books. I do get nervous because no matter how much work I do on me my W needs work. So even if we decided to R I would have to have a very tough conversation with her about going forward. I can't move back to that home the way things are now. Anyways that is way down the road right now. I'm very proud of myself and the progress I had this weekend on MYSELF.
My W actually thanked me for coming by last night and giving her a little help. But the key was I didn't give her any Fri, Sat, and all day Sunday
When you continue to work on yourself and you continue to improve, your W will notice. Maybe, and there are no guarantees here, but maybe your changes will be a catalyst for changes in your W. Just don't expect it.
You need to make a note someplace where you can see it, of the progress you see when you pull back. This will serve you well when you become discouraged or angered by actions or words your W may use to bait you into reacting negatively.
Pull back and watch and learn and continue your inner work.
Well I mean do I completely pull back. There was a video game we were trying to get for S for Easter and she wasn't having luck and I told her I would grab it just now cuz i was down the street from the place where they might have it. I mean that stuff is ok right. But just not pursuing her. Not pursuing MIL. Not being there to bail her out all the time etc..
"But just not pursuing her. Not pursuing MIL. Not being there to bail her out all the time etc.."
Exactly! And no unnecessary contact, unless it relates to the children.
How NOT to get excited when you see positive progress. Hmmm
Well came over to pick up kids and saw she rescheduled appt with lawyer sort of bummed me out
Well came over to pick up kids and saw she rescheduled appt with lawyer sort of bummed me out
That's actually kind of funny. I would think that rescheduling the L appointment would be a positive for you. But, your reaction is good. Keep it up.
How NOT to get excited when you see positive progress. Hmmm
Guess just as how not to lose all hope when there is a bad day. We all struggle with this. You are not alone.
Well the appt was canceled by lawyer and W rescheduled today so that zapped me a little thinking after the therapy story might change her mind completely . Oh well
This is the stuff I really need work on. I know her original appointment was canceled by the L cuz lawyer had court duty. I'm sure L called her today to reschedule. I just had my hopes up that my W would not want to consult after talking to her friend who told her to think long and hard before you divorce because it truly [censored] and her kids have been in therapy for over a year.
This is truly the stuff I need support from this forum and my counselor and myself. Ive been doing deep breathing since 3 pm and it helped a little.
What is odd is she actually offered for me to sleep over last night in the spare room cuz it was late. (i turned that down)
She was still being cool to me but just seeing the apptment on the family calendar bit me in the azz.
I have the kids today so I took them out to try to get my mind off it but for some odd reason it is bothering me more then it should. I know I can't control her and what she decides to do. So that is what Im trying to work off. But the hamster mind wonders. Sometimes I think is it because I didn't help her enough all weekend or I turned down the overnight is why she decided to reschedule L appoint. I know KD. This is projecting and I truly SUCK here. But i'm aware at least
Also I've been reading a few things. How do you know if your W has a passive aggressive personality. Reason I ask she takes no blame for any of our issues and HATES MC or any sort of C'ing in general
Sorry in a writing mood tonight. I THINK I just made myself to available again? Her car needs service and my D has dance tomorrow at same time. She asked for me to take car to service or either take D to dance. She knows cuz of my own business I can work anywhere there is internet.
What do you guys think. Did I slip up here and make myself to available. Is there a balance im asking? I made myself pretty much unavailable all weekend when she was sick.
She did invite me over for Easter dinner so I guess I'm trying to balance my moves. Like maybe next time not make myself available. Right now me and W are being friends. Joking via txt and joking on phone etc. Last time I screwed up and pursued MC at this state. I'm thinking she needs to see that we can do more and more of this stuff together or maybe not.
I'm feeling better. My counselor called me on phone and helped me with a breathing excercise. He is such a great guy.
Just my opinion......
Take your D to the dance. Let your w deal with the car. Keep the focus on your D.
Go to Easter dinner, it is a family holiday event and seems appropriate to participate. Next invitation, turn it down because you've got something else going on. Remember accept some invitations, not all.
Ease up on the text messages. OK once in awhile but too much and your efforts to detach become null and void.
Yeah I thought about taking D to dance. I think I agreed the other way. My mistake.
Txt messages. Always her initiating. Never me.
Net,
Concentrate on Net and not her problems/issues. Keep the focus on Net.
SIW
Sad I'm trying but out of the house and 2 kids in sports makes it tough mix in my own business with flex schedule
Lucky! Your IC helped you with breathing exercises.
As for Easter, GO! Great opportunity for her to see the new and improved netmaster
Keep up with the breathing exercises. They help me out a lot! Any and all relaxation techniques are beneficial and meditation!! Don't let your emotions control your actions. Keep it cool
Consider yourself, The Fonz
(wait, did I just date myself
)
This is the stuff I really need work on. I know her original appointment was canceled by the L cuz lawyer had court duty. I'm sure L called her today to reschedule. I just had my hopes up that my W would not want to consult after talking to her friend who told her to think long and hard before you divorce because it truly [censored] and her kids have been in therapy for over a year.
This is truly the stuff I need support from this forum and my counselor and myself. Ive been doing deep breathing since 3 pm and it helped a little.
...
She was still being cool to me but just seeing the apptment on the family calendar bit me in the azz.
...
I know I can't control her and what she decides to do. So that is what Im trying to work off. But the hamster mind wonders.
...
But i'm aware at least
Yes, Net. And being aware of it is the first step to figuring out how to get around it. It's a good thing!
She was still being cool to me but just seeing the apptment on the family calendar bit me in the azz.
^^^This really jumped out at me. And I think you could use it to help yourself a bit here. You know you have no control over anybody but yourself. And if you take this as a lesson of something you've learned about yourself - you know that being aware of a lot of what your W does or is doing increases your anxiety and gets your mind spinning in circles, and the hamster comes out to play.
You can't stop your W from putting appointments on the calendar but you can control your own behaviour and avoid looking at the calendar. Try to be proactive about managing your anxiety. If you can identify some of the things that trigger it, you may be able to avoid those triggers.
I know it's easier said than done, but you've already proven to yourself that you are able to control your impulses (by not calling your MIL, for example). Try to think about it as a rule you've set for yourself: If I do ___, then the consequence will be that my anxiety will increase.
Net,
W initially cancelled her appointment and then went another day. I would be lying if I told you this did not bother me, but I think I was dissapointed in the fact that she was not upfront about it. That was last Tuesday and she now comes and goes between herself and Zombie W.
It is what is is, but I still was determined to have a great weekend with the family. And I did. I also would be lying if part of me was not expecting the other foot to drop. Unfortunately, it is out of my hands. Since there is nothing we can do with them lets take this journey one day at a time? Eventually we will be arrive where we are supposed to be.
SIW
zombie W. Does your W have extreme anxiety and depression?
No she jst comes and goes. One minute very friendly and then acts if she does not know me. Do I think she has "issues?" Sure, but that is something she will have to address. I cannot do anything.
sounds like my W. My wife has extreme anxiety. When she doesn't she is friendly. when she does she is quiet. I know this now but when living with her it drove me crazy and to the point of trying to help her pushed her off cliff. Then mix 2 kids and tiny bit of hormone issue with our marriage issues equals explosion. I know what would fix my w and so does she. A JOB. but she is stubborn and doesn't want to until my daughter in school.
Net,
Remember the point of this is not to "fix" the W, but to focus on you. If your W did not get a job, but wanted to work things out would you?
If you could not live under the same roof, what has changed where you now could?
SIW
Interesting scenario. Wife seems to be engaging me a little . Came to sons tball game and actually introduced me as her husband to a friend
So she asked me to sleep over in the spare room Easter night. Tough call cuz my weekend with kids but she wanted the kids to wake up to Easter baskets. I'm teetering on yes. Give me opportunity to hang out with wife and spend day as family. Last time she did this I pursued to early. She definitely changed her tune since talking to friends telling her divorce [censored].
Part of me thinks if her weekend with kids I would not get invite. Actually I know I wouldn't. This is where I struggle with what to do.
Sad me and my wife would have to have some serious heart to hearts if I were to come back home. So many changes need to happen. I am in a better place now with counseling and divorce busting but sad things are much easier when your spouse is making a conscious effort to try.
We are far from it. But I know I would have to GAL more under same roof. Get a job. Have open communication channels with her. Continue to council. And and and...
If not MC we would need to write Down our concerns on how to make it work
Help me out here, Gerbil. How do you go from your W asking you to stay the night for Easter clearly because it is your weekend with the kids... to... she has a lot of changes to make before you would consider moving back in?
Your work on creating space seems to be paying small dividends. I would continue to create the space. How about you bring the kids over extra early for Easter celebration instead of spending the night?
You need to enforce your boundaries. Can you see why that is so important?
Part of me says it gives me and her a chance to interact and hang out under the same roof for the first time in 3 1/2 months and part of me doesn't want to stay there but just do what you say come over early in the morning and spend the day.
At the end of the day she offered for me to stay and she didn't have to kids or not.
I understand the space and I'm still enforcing it. My kids are 3 and 6 and I will do it for them. Maybe watch a movie with the wife and try to hang out with her as a friend for the night.
In the end my long term goal is to R with the W I could look at this as an opportunity to introduce the new netmaster.
2thepoint I understand your viewpoint and appreciate your feedback tremendously.. I do want to be careful that some of my actions don't push her even further away emotionally. aka the weekend trip to the vacation house I did. Partly out of spite looking back
Man, net, that wheel is spinning tonight!
first time posting to you hamster.. but.. ^^^^^ totally agree w/ la and 2pac.
your intention for staying over isn't for the sake of the kids. you are looking forward to the future and trying to R.. and maybe watch a movie w/ W?
LA it is. She asked me this before practice tonight and I can see a small change in her. LA isn't there a balance. I mean I turned her away all weekend. This is easter holiday and opportunity to try to interact with my W. I don't get many opportunities being in separate houses. LA what are your thoughts. Again I didn't pursue her or this. She did. She asked me to stay over with the kids.
BF. my point is my kids goto bed by 830. What am I going to do in the house with W for the rest of the night. Sit in silence or make the best of it? So I figured maybe trying to buy a comedy movie cuz boy we both need to laugh.
I mean I could tell her we would be over early in the am but for the kids sake that is not the same as waking up early and finding what the easter bunny left them. Remember they are 3 and 6 and Easter is like xmas in April for them at that age.
If I go there with the attitude its for the kids and it changes nothing between me and W that may work.
Ok off the WHEEL to read my Chi Gong book. I appreciate everyones feedback even if you don't value my thoughts lol.
I think we just wished you valued yourself more.
I remember a few people suggesting trying to get back into the house and use DB techniques. I think I am going to go with my gut and try staying the night there in the spareroom and really try enjoying the Easter day with the family. No negative vibes. Just try to be myself and see if I can do it
Make your choices and do them...
I would be concerned about your intentions for staying over... check them... you are going to visit with friends and have chosen to stay over... nothing more... nothing less...
I WOULD suggest you have a plan B in case things don't quite feel right...
allow yourself to leave with respect and dignity and politely rather than getting into a situation or conversation that may get ugly...
KD thanks for chiming in. Honestly I feel it will give me good interaction time with W and kids. She has also purchased 4 tickets for a kids show coming up. So this is not the only sign of her making effort. My efforts with counseling is to get me in a position to be able to handle these type of interactions even if the outcome in the end isnt' what I want for the family. Believe it or not Im getting there. My W isn't always pleasant to me (based on her moods and how she feels, anxiety etc) and I'm learning to shake it off and move on.
Intentions. Well I know I'm not getting l**()d if that is what you are applying. I'll go over late evening. Do dinner and put kids to bed and probably help her hide easter candy all over the place and fill candy eggs.
I do like your plan B suggestion and ive heard this before and it may have been from your or another veteran. I get migraines so that could be a good one but I will also have plan C.
I know right now my W does not feel like she loves me anymore so its hard to have any other intentions other then hanging out as a friend.
lol... one step at a time, NM...
So no, not so much gettin' a little sumfin'sumfin...
rather, as you indicate your intentions are to try to get good interactions with your W...
Work on your detachment...
No worries about having good interactions with your W because it's in you to do...
So long as you don't EXPECT, plan, and intend good interactions...
Because then you are setting yourself up for failure, in your eyes...
Detachment means you can let things be as they will... which means there can be no failure... because you don't have intentions to be successful. You just will be... no matter what it looks like, for that evening...
the baby steps...
Kd started reading your storey. Wow. Didn't get through it . How did it end up
still a work in progress, NM... It was ugly and I was a mess... You might find, probably not much different than you were...
Truth be told, the spoiler is that I am moving on. I am resolved to file D as soon as I can, in the sense that when I am both A) able to afford what I would consider at least a reasonable amount of court ordered child support, and B) becoming romantically involved with someone...
If W wants or needs D before that time, then I am OK if she files.
Let me be clear, NM... the current sitch has nothing to do with anything SHE has done, nor anything I have done...
The reality is, the current sitch is the way it is because the sitch changed... because both myself AND my W have changed in the sitch... nothing can change if something doesn't change... but it will change... even if we do nothing... we have to learn to adapt... and move forward...
I'm not pressuring my W to D and my W continues to not talk to me about the R, in any way, shape or form... except most recently to tell me that she does not have any romantic association with (non)OM3.
And it changed because time moved forward... and I am quite sure that my W still has no idea what she wants... and I am quite sure that my W has still not dealt with her emotions (negative AND positive) around this...
So it goes...
I am still M...
And I live my life... have found myself again and continue to grow in myself and continue to be the best... the better... father my girls could ever have...
Sorry KD. I'm afraid most people get over someone by getting under someone. Especially when spouse makes no effort to work on themselves or R. My friend just went through this. His W moved out and after 8 months of separation he found someone else and stopped waiting around for her. This actually scares me a bit because I've had feelings of doing this but fought them off. I love my W to much and my family to much.
I hope my W comes around and realizes that I am not solely the reason she was run down. Maybe she won't. She does blame me 100% for her anxiety and her breakdown. Fortunately through counseling I was made to realize that this isn't possible. Many other contributions to her stress like stay at home mom for 6 years no help, son had heart surgery, hormones or post pardom after daughter stopped breast feeding etc and plain and simple her childhood upbringing issues. Unfortunately I became whipping post. At the end of the day I did need to make lots of changes and I continue to do this weekly using Chi Gong and Tai Chi and many breathing exercises. Ironically the things I'm doing are the exact things my W needs to do. Ironically I didn't even know I had anxiety until this separation and now realize my anxiety was feeding off hers and vice versa.
Lots of people joke and call me hamster and rightfully so I can be sporadic but the reality of the story is I'm actually a very smart guy. I understand DB techniques. Not pursuing. Gal. All of it. I get the objective is to take care of yourself and prepare yourself for the worst and hope for the best by detaching. I get it all. I truly do. DBusting is very tough when you have a depressed,anxious, up and down person in your life that you deeply care for. Detaching from that is difficult. I'm making progress though. I truly am.
I consider this weekend a test. I know it's Easter Sunday and then Tuesday her L appointment. I will see how I hold up on Wednesday. I think I'm ok with it. I hope she comes around but for now I meet with my counselor on Mon and Fridays. I'm reading good books. Playing cards at night. Now I'm coaching son's baseball team twice a week. Starting to get my business back online. Golfing and road biking.
I can't say I quite found myself yet. Everytime I hear that phrase from someone its typically followed by "I found someone else" Or "I'm romantically involved with someone else" If that is what finding oneself is I'm not interested right now.
Anyways sorry for the ramble but that is what a hamster does. rambles
My friend just went through this. His W moved out and after 8 months of separation he found someone else and stopped waiting around for her. This actually scares me a bit because I've had feelings of doing this but fought them off.
Let me point something out that is easy to intellectualize, but difficult to emotionalize until one is actually at that point...
You need not worry about the future with someone else, and no longer standing for your M or your W...
because until you are at the point of choosing to move on with someone else, your moral compass will continue to guide you...
and once you are at that point... it won't even enter your mind as to whether it is the "right" thing, or not... because at that point in time... IF you get to that point... there will be no question...
You won't just switch off your love and commitment to your W and your M... in the same way your W didn't just suddenly switch off her love and commitment to you and your M...
it doesn't "just happen"... rather... it just happens... only when you are ready for it...
Thx KD. On a side note. Any recommendations on a very good comedy movie. I haven't watched a good movie in a long time. Maybe top 5 recent comedies
D9 and I laughed 'til we cried over Puss in Boots... I also enjoyed "Wild Hogs"... Really, I have my collection of movies and I have gone back and re-watch many of them... grab the Pirates trilogy... or perhaps go through Harry Potter series or LotR...
I think we just wished you valued yourself more.
you responded
What your wife thinks of you should not matter. It's none of your business.
What do you think of you? Are you the person you want to be?
We talk about you spinning the hamster wheel because you get caught up in what W's doing, saying or may be thinking and lose sight of you and your goals.
When thoughts of her come to mind can you picture a mute button and push it?
She controls you and I don't thins she's trying-you just turn it over to her.
We want YOU to succeed!
FN LA I hate you being so right lol. Yes she does control me and she doesn't try. She is so hot though lol.
actually ok day today. My dog is dying so I threw away boundaries for the day. MIL asked me to help her paint so I did. I have my D every Thursday morning anyways so I went over and painted (my W actually volunteered me for this and I accepted)
Got home and my W told me the dog needs to goto vet for fluids. Not eating or drinking.
Before that she invited me to stay and color eggs with kids. It was fun. So we all did it together until W had to leave for vet. I stayed with kids (throw away boundaries here). She came home.
My son did ask for me to sleep over the house in front of her. akward. I told him I was going to stay over Saturday night. My way of letting the W know my answer to her question.
My W actually was walking by me and kicked my leg out behind the knee as a joke. Very odd. Very strange. But like the old days. She said sorry I couldn't resist.
I do feel a little more detached right now but then again things are going well. The real test is when they go South for a bit. But thinking positively they may not lol. It is amazing if your spouse or anyone that is actually consciously tries how much easier and positive things can be.
anyways. that is my journaling for the day. LA I'm still counseling twice a week, reading, cards, golf, biking... I'm hoping this weekend goes well and I think it may as long as I have that friend attitude
Interesting. Dropped kids off and my W asked me where I was going all dressed up.
Ok to be honest I'm just journaling a little here. The hamster is actually fine with what happened today even though it was tough.
What I saw was last night I dropped a dvd off at the house that the kids wanted to watch and she took notice to what I was wearing. She said where you going all dressed up. I said a card tourney.
After card tourney I came home and sent out an email to the parents of my baseball ball team. Just a reminder. W is on the list. She emailed me from there. She NEVER emails me from there. Went back and forth a little all small talk but it was nice.
Today. Kids had day off from school. I had work off. So we decided to do a family day. I thought it went pretty well. The only akward part was on the ride home she was getting incoming txts and one was from a guy friend. Of course this happenes to be the guy we argued about when I was living at home. I didn't say anything and tried to keep my composure but it just felt akward. Im guessing she sensed this even though I kept my cool and played it off like nothing. But for some reason after that she seemed a little off. Then again she has a head cold and other women things going on all while trying to plan for Easter dinner.
I took kids to the park for 2 hours and we came back to mom's. things seemed to be better. My dog is very sick so I helped tend to the dog with her. I got dinner for everyone and we ate. We stayed there to long in my opinion but the kids kept doing stuff to prolong the stay. My son wanted a fire pit so bad so I made it with mom's permission. But this time it was late 730.
My S kept asking for me to sleep over moms' in front of mom. I know that we were planning for this tomorrow night so I didn't want to push the limits. W asked me what I was going to do. I said well Im guessing you don't want me sleeping here all weekend she kept saying "I don't know, I don't know" . I said I understand completely and I will take the kids to my house. My W sort of caused the confusion on the sleeping situation and actually txt'd me later apologizing. I said no need to apologize stuff happens. My son was begging for me to sleep there in front of her (This was a first btw) She made a comment like why you dont' want to sleep at dad's. I stepped in here. I said of course he wants to sleep at dads but he was askign for dad to sleep at home. WHen we got home I explained it all to my S he was ok with it.
My S basically said dad I want you to sleep at moms' cuz you never sleep at mom's since you have a "new house". I did let my W know this was said so she could handle it in the future.
It is very odd because the last few days my W seems to be making an effort. Based on her actions, her emails, going to practice, introducing me as her husband. I feel that our day together today as a family made her feel anxious or akward. Of course I can't tell cuz we don't talk R talk. But honestly I do feel ok by it. Accept that I do agree with everyone here that I should be pulling away more. I am trying to balance and detach but it is very difficult. I do now understand and accept that Easter sleep over is 150% for kids only. Which is fine. Accept now I may feel a little akward staying there.
One thing for sure the day was pretty good barring the akwardness of the incoming txt from her. One thing I don't think I could do is move back into a house where she feels its ok to have 6 different "guy" friends texting her at will. But it actually at the time did not bother me.
Again I'm just journaling. I'm not to anxious right now. I'm guessing as you interact with your spouse like this for the first time in a long time it is expected to have these crescendos. I thought I handled myself pretty ok in front of her barring the situation with the kids etc..
Net u are not too anxious? Dunno I was out of breath reading your post. Let go of the fear man. I know is hard but try. What are u doing tomorrow for u?
Rick there was a lot that went on today. 6 year old begging you to sleep at home in from of W. I think I handled the situation pretty good today. I haven't interacted with my W like this in 3 1/2 months.
Let go of the fear of what. The marriage ending. I'm trying bro trust me. I'm at a counselor 2 x a week. Making progress but very hard.
Thx for feedback. I was journaling my entire day not trying to come off as anxious.
I know is though and painful. You will get there. I remember when my sitch started. Was scared to death thought being dead would be easier. Ran out the house in the middle of the night couldn't breath thought I was suffocating. Still struggle but I'm finding me again. Remembering that I have many good qualities even tho I caused some of this. But not all of it. Most people like me. Chances are that most people like u too. I think we here try to give each other strentgh during a chitty situation. Keep doing the work my friend
NM... while your S6 "gets" it in his own little mind... remember that he does not see it from the adult perspective and context that you and your W see it...
So as much as he might feel it odd that his parents are not living in the same house... like many of his buddies at school...
it is also likely that as he's trying to "fix" his mommy and daddy in their relationship, he is also seeing it from the mind of a six year old, as in...
"so daddy should just camp out here in the living room... we'll put the chairs out and throw a blanket under and over them like a tent... and then, problem solved... daddy is here again..."
I hope that doesn't get you down thinking about that, but again... understand that your kids will be affected... even traumatized by this... and what you do about it, how you "are" with them... that will reduce the negative affects.
But... he is quite unlikely to be begging you and your W to reconcile. Rather, he was thinking it could be a great adventure to have you sleep over...
KD accept he said "I want you to sleep at mom's cuz you never sleep at moms since you bought that new house" Not to toot my son's horn but he isn't the typical 6 year old. He is smart. Yes I know the impact this will have on both my kids and the entire family that is why I am on this board and why I haven't given up yet even when all signs tell me to give up
What is finding oneself again. Seems most people are divorced on here and finding oneself again is life after break up. Am I wrong
KD accept he said "I want you to sleep at mom's cuz you never sleep at moms since you bought that new house" Not to toot my son's horn but he isn't the typical 6 year old. He is smart. Yes I know the impact this will have on both my kids and the entire family that is why I am on this board and why I haven't given up yet even when all signs tell me to give up
What does this mean to you, Net?
Again, read other threads on this board, get a different perspective. See that you are not alone in this.
NM, "finding oneself" is more of a "new age" or buddhist way of saying "finding God" in oneself.
Where we find ourselves in our environment... physically... is not where we find ourselves spiritually... in our heart... our core... our centre...
discovering... or for those who had found that peace at one time, re-discovering and even remaking ourselves spiritually in a way that holds to our beliefs and who we want to be, on this earth and with others...
hope that makes sense...
Finding yourself.
We tend to lose ourselves when we're with someone. We do it to conform, but sometimes we do away with ourselves all together. When you no longer have to conform with someone else, you're true identity reappears. It's always been there, but hidden. You begin to enjoy what you used to enjoy before S, before kids, before all the mess.
I used to love going for walks at the Rose Bowl. The view of the mountains and smell of trees makes me feel relaxed, complete, happy. I forgot about that.
Take care of Net
Thx all. Wish me luck. Staying at home tonight for the 1st time in 3 1/2 months. Kids are excited. Dog is dying. W is down. Going in as a friend
Finding yourself.
We tend to lose ourselves when we're with someone. We do it to conform, but sometimes we do away with ourselves all together. When you no longer have to conform with someone else, you're true identity reappears. It's always been there, but hidden. You begin to enjoy what you used to enjoy before S, before kids, before all the mess.
I used to love going for walks at the Rose Bowl. The view of the mountains and smell of trees makes me feel relaxed, complete, happy. I forgot about that.
Take care of Net
A definition similar to one I used to have...until I realised that no one lives in a bubble, and that life is about negotiation.
So then I'm thinking - has anyone ever been in a relationship here that you can be totally yourself? Is that some ideal, unrealistic standard I wonder?
Finding yourself.
I used to love going for walks at the Rose Bowl. The view of the mountains and smell of trees makes me feel relaxed, complete, happy. I forgot about that.
Vero, if you said something like, "I used to go to the clubs and take drugs all night til I was high as a kite, but - sigh - I had to stop that to conform to my relationship and therefore I lost myself," well, I kinda understand that one.
But going for a walk at the Rose Bowl? Why ever would you have stopped doing such a wonderful thing? Wouldn't your H come with you if you wanted to go for such a walk? That sounds blissful.
Well Easter went well. I slept over Easter night and me and her got along as friends. It's tough doing that and then having her entire family over for the day but I was my joking self today.
Lots of emotions going on. We are putting are dog down tomorrow so I'm sleeping here again tonight. We has this dog together for 11 years. She is an amazing dog and this will definitely set my W back big time. My W is the biggest animal lover there is.
Overall good Easter but very difficult separating emotions from the day. Also very difficult sleeping here all weekend then going back. But my dog can't walk :-(
Had to put dog down this am
So sorry, that hurts a lot.
Thx! I'm just in support mode right now for W. My dog was my W's shadow and our first dog together.
Listen on a side note. If your W or spouse is not a counselor time a person and you do eventually want to work stuff out how have others plated stuff or worked stuff out. I know this is way down the road or maybe not. Life is funny sometimes.
Like do people email spouse list of 10 things they like to see changed or use a family member to mediate. I mean i don't get how we could ever get under the same roof without discussion.
Am I crazy? Just thinking out loud
I'm so sorry about your dog. How is your W responding to your support? Remember, do more of what works, less of what doesn't, with no expectations.
Well she responding nice to my support. What works is being flexible and helping with NO expectations. That works for her. I did that for 6 weeks then asked for MC and that is when she took rings off and pushed me away.
So if I can continue to be supportive with no expectations that works. But that is easier said then done when she gets a little ummm hormonal and asks to start selling house and asks for D. I'd like to go 1 full month without hearing that crap...
But other then that boundary rules are off for next day or 2 with dog scenario. I got her a nice thing of flowers and picture of dog. she thanked me and we had some nice dialogue.
The key advina is NO expectations. That is so TOUGH!!! I'm working on it though. I just realized today though I AM a nice guy plain and simple. If she can't see that right now not my issue. I guess I am finding myself a little> Im a nice guy and if she doesn't start seeing then her loss a little. I do know she is a nice person too.
don't get the hamster going
Definitely NO EXPECTATIONS!! This is hard at first because we have them but once you detach and stop expecting things, you are pleasantly surprised...
Yeah, I totally agree with Vero. It's like a ton is lifted off your shoulders.
The question I have is how do you have a committed relationship without all those expectations??? Is that even possible?
Yank you don't until you piece it back together. I want an open honest healthy marriage. That doesn't come without some tough conversations one day and expectations and even setting boundaries. I so know where I went wrong in my marriage
Maybe my dog passed for a reason. W
canceled consult with L for now. No expectations
My W had a very tough day. It was nice to be there for her as a friend. I could tell she genuinely appreciated it.
I see by your posts that your elastic band is still fresh and supple...
I'd tell you to stay detached... but then... you'd have to have been detached in the first place...
Lower your hopes and zero your expectations...
She could be hurting... and that could be the ONLY reason why she is not revolted by your support...
Be nice... be supportive...
But once she's over this... don't be surprised if things are back to business....
KD I do understand and there are signs that you're correct will be addressing tomorrow in counseling
KD its funny you mention that. I actually was thinking damn maybe my wife has fallen completely out of love with me and there is not much hope. I can almost feel it from her when I'm around her. Its an odd sensation actually. Thats when I started thinking to myself I'm a pretty nice guy etc. But its an odd sensation
I'm not anywhere near saying that's a good thing that you are loosing hope...
but as you lower your expectations... always remember... if she wants the D... LET HER DO THAT WORK...
When you've lost all hope... and think D is the only option... just wait... like you should be when responding to any communication between the two of you... you DO NOT have to answer right away... whether the answer is the same two days later or not... whether your answer is good... or bad... wait...
And wait with any thoughts of acting on a D... because you do not have to D... if she wants it, she can do it... and...
I might be indefinately separated... and if or when the time comes that I feel that D is actually necessary... not because I want it, but because of tax reasons or new relationship I want to progress or some other non-emotional but logical reason... that would be when I would D... until then... I will remain M and who knows... my W might one day approach me and declare that she wants to reconcile...
I'm not hopeful... but it could happen...
In the same way that 25 will remind people that two of her family members D'd... and then remarried their X's...
Thx KD. What is so odd through this whole process is its like we are married in separate houses. Because we have 2 kids into activities etc we are always together. The whole dog thing is very tough. This animal was her shadow and I truly feel for her. I mean it was my dog too but my W's shadow. She asked me to stay last night just to be around so I did. Slept in the spare room. Watched some tv with her and just talked about the memories of the dog. Its so tough. Believe it or not with everything going on her spirits in my opinion are pretty high.
I'm tryin to lower expectations but then she throws me a god dang bone!
So... some words from a WAS...
"I don't FEEL M..."
hmmmmm.... I understand what that means...
I might be technically M... but do I really feel M...? What does M "feel" like...?
Do YOU feel M...? Or do you THINK M?
M, in the eyes of the law, is a piece of paper with two signatures and a stamp on it...
M, in the eyes of God, is the vows we spoke... but more accurately, they are the acts we do...
Would God see you as M?
Would the Law see you as M?
but really... you are living separately lives... maybe not by your original choice... but you can't make some else do what you want...
So... are you really M...?
Well yes youre correct. We are living separate lives sort of. WAS gives many mixed messages leaving a SEMI detached LBS going crazy. I think SAD mentioned don't worry if she cancels L apptment or not cuz his W turned around and went another day. Also what is saying she can't leave it off family calendar and just go. I know you think the hamster is spinning. I totally get what detaching is. The problem is with detaching it almost seems for me to do that (Im saying me) is I would have to find someone else and move on. If I were to do that and my W decided to R after I don't think I could live with myself if I didn't tell her and if I did tell her I don't she would want me back. So I guess this why I stay semi detached?? Does that makes sense at all to you?
Net,
I struggle with this daily. I am there for the kids and for the house, but when it comes to her "feelings" I have taken a step back or have told myself that I have. I can say that my mood is no longer dependant on whatever she is feeling that day.
I gave a bit of support on Monday since she is going through another health scare.
SIW
I will submit that the only mixed messages that go on in the head of an LBS...
are constructed by the LBS...
The LBS is looking for black and white from the WAS... so they see things in black and white...
The messages the LBS reads is "go away... come here..."
Without understanding the context...
I think context will be my theme for this week...
oh, and on the part about detaching in order to move on with someone else, yes, I get that... if that is what you mean...
When is the last time you were single?
How did that feel?
Were you all anxious hamster looking for love in all the wrong places...? Looking for love ANYWHERE... because you could not deal with being alone? You sought love from anywhere and anyone, even if it was otherwise harmful or at least risky?
Do you ever remember a time when you were care free and foot loose and single... not worried about your next lay... or snuggling... or someone to share intimate conversation with...
That you just went about your business, enjoying life and all it had to offer...
Do you remember a time like that in your life?
KD never. I don't think I've ever been single
hmmm...
so what might you glean about that...?
Hasn't crossed my mind honestly. All I care about to be quite honest is that my family stays intact. I really hate sitting in this apartment and living a splintered life. I hate it so bad
and just a nit pick... but how do you define single?
'cause there's certainly been a time in your life when you weren't M and did not have a GF... even if you were 6 at the time...
How about letting it cross your mind...
Or wait... it just did...
But you threw it in the trash so quickly...
Why?
What about it are you so afraid of?
I've said it in the past. Losing my kids 50% of the time. Losing my W. Losing all those family trips. Losing her family that I am very close to. Losing my W to another M. Theres lots of fears in thinking about D. Losing 50% of my assets or more. The list goes on. kind of common sense actually. I've seen 3 D Attornies and they said D blows. Try to get it to work.
NM... you ARE single... your M is dead... the only thing that you are fighting right now is whether there are D papers that finalize it...
But...
This isn't about D... and you know it... this isn't about loosing your kids 50% of the time... this isn't about loosing your family...
that's already done...
Do you really care about your W?
ok, I very much expect you to say that you do really care about your W...
So I'm just going to write a response based on that likely answer. Maybe that might make me seem like an A$$... but I'm OK with that...
What I see is NM... being selfish...
If you really care about your W... why won't you let her have what she wants?
Why is it still... consistently and continuously... about what NM wants...?
Tell me all about how it's better for the kids and financially and all that other stuff...
Feel free to let me know how it's the moral and right thing to do...
Tell me how so many attorneys and MCs and other spiritual leaders will let you know that you should fight for your M...
What ever happened to your W in this picture?
What ever happened to fighting for your W... and what SHE wants...
Did you ever do that for her? I'm sure you can give me a whole bunch of times you believe you did...
But what might HER answer be...
'cause she's telling you... in no uncertain terms... that she is fighting for what she wants...
maybe... just maybe... it's because NM has been selfish throughout the M... and never stepped up and fought for his W... for what she wants... so she's finally doing it, herself...
Any truth to that?
Any thoughts to that showing up in other R's... as you said you've not been single, and I'm guessing you haven't always been with your W... what happened in those Rs...?
Yes of course I care for her.
KD. My wife right now wants the BEST of both worlds. She wants me to be around for the kids and be around for her needs but doesnt want me in her life as a H.
I've only talked to my W about our R once in 4 months. That is when I "thought" we might be able to see a MC. Besides that I have not spoken to her about the M or R.
I answer her divorce demands like everyone suggested. Generic. If that is what you want and feel you need to do ok etc..
I haven't asked to move back into the house. I haven't asked to get back together. Yes I got freaked out when she first took her rings off but to be honest haven't mentioned or been bothered by that in a long time. NO I AM NOT DETACHED completely from my wife. I really don't get how you ever can be 100% detached without having another person a. In your life or b. waiting to be in your life.
I have listened to my W and what she said to me. She can't live with me. Plain and simple. There was alot of anxious snooping, paranoia, and control in our marriage. I am working on that twice a week and believe me I'm making progress but it takes a LONG time to re-wire 38 years of VERY VERY bad wiring.
I've given my W complete space. Very minimal contact outside of kids stuff. She acknowledged and appreciated the space I have been giving her in counseling..
Now on the flip side if she wants to be intimate with someone else right now (which she has stated she has no interest) I think I would walk from the marriage. Hard enough piecing our M back together as is nevermind mixing in OM or OW.
I was selfish throughout the M and I am also working on that too. I've done many things wrong but I also have rectified them LONG before the separation man. I mean long. Your W has to be willing to forgive and forget a tiny bit if any of my efforts are going to pay off. she holds onto stuff to bro. So don't come across like NM or hamaster is the soul collapse of marriage. But yes I KNOW I am the one on this board and I am the one trying to salvage the marriage. At the end of the day I understand it takes TWO to make it happen. Sometimes it appears she is making tiny efforts and then we get set back (dog, friend dying etc)
But yes. I was a selfish PR I CK. I know this and completely understand it.
KD also if I gave my W what she wanted I would have schedule a mediator for her. I didn't. Letting her do the work.
Net,
I have been doing my 180's for almost two months and nearly a day doesn't pass that my W brings up the past or that this is just an act on my part. I don't argue with her or convince her otherwise and simply keep doing what I am doing.
Is is frustrating? You bet. But I like the changes I have made for myself and even if W does leave I will be a much better SIW than I was previously.
W has flat out said that she is waiting at least six months of my 180's before she beleives that I am for real. Question is will I be patient enough to keep doing what I am doing without W making a step in the same direction?
Right now I say yes because I am not doing for her or to manipulate her to say. I just keep doing things one day at a time.
Are the changes your making for you or the convince your W to stay in the M?
SIW
In life, we do what serves us...
In the past, being selfish and going into victim mode served you...
Right now, your belief that your W wants the best of both worlds, serves you...
Right now, indicating that it takes a long time to re-wire 38 years of personality characteristics, serves you...
So the only box that you can look at... is the one you are sitting in...
Look at that box, because it has huge walls... no windows... and pictures of what the outside world looks like to you... drawn by you...
erase those pictures...
sit in your box with no make believe of what the outside world looks like... whether it be your M... the kids... what the attorneys are saying...
You are your own playmate for the time being... because it might take some time to realize that you don't want to play with that person any more...
and once you get to that point... you will be able to choose to play a different game...
play a different game and find something else that serves you in a new... more fulfilling way...
what might that be...?
And if you answer that with something to do with other people... rinse and repeat the above...
because this isn't about anyone but you...
oh... and in response to your posts above...
telling me that you were selfish and a pr1ck, serves you...
and telling me that you didn't provide a mediator because we told you to let her do the work... serves you...
just sayin'
Sorry not really sure what you mean by serves you
Sad what kind of 180s are you doing that the wife notices that isn't doormat behavior?
Sorry not really sure what you mean by serves you
So if you have never heard that saying and do not understand what it means, I'll use myself as an example...
I say that I am forgetful, because it serves me. I can blame my memory for not doing something that I probably did not want to do. When the truth is, when I do want to do something, I am very capable of ensuring I both remember... but arrive on time...
Saying that we told you not to get a mediator serves you...
So how about this, then...
Go get a mediator... I think it would be very helpful for you...
Sorry not really sure what you mean by serves you
Sad what kind of 180s are you doing that the wife notices that isn't doormat behavior?
Helping more with the kids getting them ready for school, taking/picking up S10 to hockey, picking up D6 from day are, cooking more of the weekday meals, doing more around the house, listening to my W about the finances, doing more with the kids w/out W. I am also listening more intently to my W without adding my two cents.