Here is the last thread:
WHG's last thread I'm going to kick this thread off with an etiquette question... all thoughts are appreciated. My S is having a birthday get-together next weekend. He asked to invite two kids he used to go to daycare with. Their parents know my W and I in the way that parents who share a small daycare provider do. Though they know me much more than my W since I did most of the picking up and dropping off of our S.
I don't believe either set of parents know that my W and I have split up however. The parents have the option of dropping their kids off at my W's house and we'll take them to the party place and bring them back. Or the parents are welcome to come along. I don't know which option these parents will pick. I wouldn't call them friends but close acquaintances. I've been over their homes for birthday parties and taking my S to play. My W really hasn't so again, she doesn't know them as well.
I feel like I should at least warn them about our separation? But it also seems a little forward to just say "hey, by the way...".
Thoughts?
I wouldn't say anything. They will figure it out and your W might not appreciate it. But more importantly is why are u having this urge to say something?
I think mainly because one of the two sets of parents is very religious and conservative... I don't know that they would not approve of things, but if bringing their son into that mix might bother them I feel some level of responsibility to give them some notice.
Though it's not as if things are toxic between W and I or anything like that. I imagine, assuming things are that day like they have been, most folks could spend the few hours with us and perhaps not even have a clue unless they look hard.
And after looking again at what I posted... I think I more meant to say, "should I warn them". I can really go either way. I don't feel a particular urge... or maybe I did when I posted that but I don't now. Strange how urges come and pass these days.
YOu still don't get it? Stop fixing things stop being perfect. Ghezzzzz warn them about what? What you have is not contagious right? Let things happen the way God thinks they should. Have some fun and be flexible. Let go WHG. Give her her freedom. Stop protecting her. Let her live her life and if that means screw ut up so what not your problem. And don't bring the kids into this. They will be affected no matter what. I am in your corner and hope the best for you
Response to dark vs civility, etc.
First off, do you find yourself operating on a fear of what your w will do with ss and sd if you don't play ball?
Being dark and civil for me was a kind of delicate balance. I did this during the time period where H was constantly talking of walking out, having tantrums about wanting to be free, and for the most part, bouncing back and forth from wanting me there, to totally despising my presence. I cannot say that what I did would work for another, but it did work for me.
I was able to detach and withdraw without being unkind. It may seem unkind to boot my h off my facebook, but when i did it, he said, "Notice that you don't have me on your facebook anymore" and I said, "Yeah, kind of getting in that space of us moving on as you were talking about". I do remember the look on his face. He didn't really want that, at the time, as he revealed to me later on about how it really gutted him, when I took steps to give him a huge amount of space. I began to pull back, without being unkind, without being nasty.
One night the cards were playing, and that's our team. We have always watched games together. He was in the living room watching, and asked me if I'd join.... and I just said in a kind voice, "I'm so sorry, I'm going over to (my neighbors) for a movie, enjoy the game!" and I left.
He was emailing me from work wanting me to respond, and after a few days in a row of no responses, he finally asked me what was up and I said, "Oh I think we should just email when it's about our D. I'm pretty busy lately and I'm not able to check mail all the time".
I stopped being as available to him as I used to be... and he later told me in counseling that this is when he started to wake up and see what he was about to lose.
I probably went more dim, than I did dark. he was still around and so we did have contact each day...it's a detachment and a realization.
I know several times he would come in from work and either ignore me or want me to sit down and listen to something funny that happened. He liked me being there for him when he came in, but I stopped being there. I made other plans to be away, and he started coming to an empty home.
Your W may not like it when you exclude her from your facebook, or tell her "let's restrict our contact only to the needs of our kids". And if she does not like it, you can say.. "I'm giving you the space you need, I need mine too". Or something to this degree. You can still be civil.
@Rick What you have is not contagious right?
Actually I've read some interesting studies of late that show a correlation between W who have friends/know other W who are getting or get divorced and the frequency of those women entering divorce. So maybe it's contagious
J/K of course... well, partially I guess. But I'm over it.
You're right on the "being perfect" part. I think my urge to tell them is to let them judge me/us before they get there and possibly figure it out. But they can judge all they want... not like it'll change anything. Heck, maybe down the road they have some single friends should it ever come to that
@CT First off, do you find yourself operating on a fear of what your w will do with ss and sd if you don't play ball?
Yes I do. To be fair, W has not done this nor given me a reason to think she would go down this road. At this point this is entirely my own construct.
Have had a fun weekend with my S. Took him to see The Lorax last night. We chilled out today, played, went for a walk, and grilled out tonight. The new furniture for his room came today so he was pretty excited. It felt good to get his room put back together finally. He shared a room with SS so when W moved she took SS's bed, dresser, bookshelf, etc.. with her so that left his room empty except for his captain's bed. Now there's a pullout couch (where SS can sleep when he stays over), a new dresser, and the captain's bed in there. S is sleeping on the pullout couch tonight because he's never been able to do that before
Worked on a photo project today of printing photos of the kids and of the kids and I then framing them and putting them up. Tired of looking at the very empty stairwell that used to be populated by wedding photos. Cleaned those walls today and put up some photos. But man there's a lot of wall there... have to go get more/bigger frames tomorrow and order some more photos.
This whole resetting a house is an expensive proposition.
Been struggling a bit today... unexpected waves of emotions at odd times. Couldn't figure it out until just now... realized it's been one month since W and the kids moved out. Guess it's good that it took me all day to realize it though.
Have had minimal contact with W since Thursday. It's actually been kind of nice. Allowed me to be with my S without having her in the picture. I did call her this morning before she went to work to confirm some logistics details for the week since I am going to be on the east coast for a few days for work. Also had to ask her for a favor which involved taking S for most of the afternoon/evening on one of my nights this week. Originally my mom was going to do it, but there's only a half day of school that day. W will have SS and SD already so I thought perhaps she could take all three rather than ask my mom to drop everything midday, etc...
It's funny how a simple request can quickly unlock the "woe is me gates" with her. That question evolved into my W explaining how she was planning to walk with her friend that night, how she can't if she has S. Ok. Then it quickly moves into how she feels so lost and messed up right now and needs these walks because it gives her a chance to talk it out with her friend. Mind you... before folks take me to task... this devolution occurred in perhaps 6 seconds.
The difference this morning was that I didn't listen. I simply repeated the question/request and told her if it was too much trouble I could make other arrangements. She stopped complaining then and said that, no, she can take him and will figure out something so she can still walk. Perhaps leave S with her friend's daughters (8, 12, and 17) who love him and he loves them... glad you got that figured out.
Then S figured out I was talking to mom and wanted a chance to talk to her. She just doesn't check in or call him when he's with me. I don't get it. I used to encourage S to call her each night but have stopped. If he wants to talk to her he will tell me. This morning he told me so I gave him the phone.
S and I went to church and then went out to lunch with my mom. Worked on some more "house reclamation" work this afternoon, trying to make the home more my own. That's a slow process. Sermon today was on gratitude... it was well-timed.
It sure doesn't feel like a month has passed. It feels like a week has passed... and it feels like a year has passed.
Wow.. it's been a week since I last posted... guess it was a busy week... not much to report though either I suppose.
The week was very busy. I was on the East Coast for much of the week for work. Had one funny/odd moment when I called my house to talk to the kids (they were with my mom). I called my house phone assuming the kids or my mom would answer. My W answered as she was there picking the kids up. I didn't recognize her. I had to ask her twice who it was... so that was a little awkward.
Saw W briefly on Wednesday when I stopped at her house to get my S after I flew in. It was pretty late so we didn't really talk much.
Saw her again briefly on Friday when I picked SS up for our weekend of search and rescue training. Again, nothing really.. just a hello and I was in a big hurry to get SS and go as we were running late.
Spent the weekend at a search and rescue school. The school was hosted by my old squadron so I saw old friends I hadn't seen in 10 or 15 years. That was great. And I met some new folks and made some new friends. SS had a great time too and it's neat to see him start to come out of his shell.
I did see W quite a bit today though. After we got back from the SAR school it was time for my S's birthday get-together with his friends. I ended up going direct to the birthday place to decorate some and meet some of the parents while my W brought S and a friend of his. It went fine. W and I got along well and S had a great time. W wanted to take S for ice cream (next door to the place) and asked me if I wanted to come along. I said yes as I hadn't seen my S much since Thursday. She treated for my ice cream though. S wanted to drive back to town with me so we did a few errands and then headed back. I dropped him off just as W was finishing getting supper ready. She invited me to stay for dinner with them but I declined and headed home. I really wanted to stay... I haven't seen SD or S much but thought it best not to. I have SD, SS, and S tomorrow afternoon so I'll get some time with them then.
Had all the kids this afternoon. S came home from school all excited because it was superhero/princess night at our local ice cream/restaurant place and wanted to go. I had planned to take the kids out for dinner anyway, so that worked well.
As we were getting there W texted me that she got off of work early and asked if I wanted her to get the kids early. I told her we were out for dinner and she asked if she could join us. I told her the restaurant and she replied that she didn't really like that place. Ok. Said I'd bring the kids by once we were done.
A little bit later W shows up at the restaurant (after eating dinner at another place) and asks if we should all get ice cream. Kids were having fun coloring and getting their faces painted. But you can't offer ice cream to kids and not follow through
So we got ice cream and then I sent the kids home with her.
A little depressed though tonight... W had mediation with her XH today. She pretty much capitulated to everything he wanted. Rather than digging in and trying to keep SS and SD during the week the split schedule will continue. Means the amount of time I get with them now is about all I'll get. Pretty sad about that. Got the news via email while I was helping kids with homework. Had to go upstairs for a few minutes so they didn't see me upset.
Just a thought but why let her continue to share the time you have the kids...how is she going to miss family time if she gets it whenever she wants it
instead of offering that she comes with how about simply stating you are out to eat with the kids and will bring them home as scheduled. If she asks if she can come with, say you have already begun but will drop the kids off when you are done or you are enjoying the special daddy kid time and maybe some other time.
stop offering to be her family game night
I didn't go that route Figg because it was her night with the kids. I had them because she was working. Frankly I was surprised that she even offered to come get them when she got off early. She certainly didn't have to (I wouldn't have had a clue) and back when we were together she wouldn't have. In fact she would've gone to her friend's place and hung out there rather than come home and let me go do something. I actually felt it was respectful of her to let me know I could drop them off early if I wanted to. Now perhaps she was banking on me saying I'd keep them since she knows how much I miss SD and SS. And if that's the case then she played it well. But I really don't know that nor can I read her mind so I have to take it face value.
I guess I didn't really have an issue with her stopping for the ice cream. I believe she was surprised when I didn't change restaurants. That's a big 180 for me... in the past I would've caved to her pickyness in restaurants. Her getting the kids was actually more convenient for me as it saved me a trip back and forth across town. All totaled it was maybe 15 minutes of "family time". There's also a side of me that sees how happy all the kids are when we're together, particularly my S. We get along good and it's not really stressful. I used to breakdown and lose it whenever we had those "family moments" and I honestly didn't know if I could keep handling them. But lately it's been fine. It's the new reality. A different one for sure, not one I like that much but it is the reality. So deal with it or be run over by it.
Haven't talked to my W in about a week I think. I don't exactly remember to be quite honest. Saw her tonight though. Had all the kids tonight, first time in quite a while since she was on vacation last week. Man I missed them, especially my SD.
XH bought SS a cell phone so now SD has my W's "house phone". I'm glad... it means I can communicate with both SS and SD as I want to without having to go through XH or W. We all had a good night. S had a pizza party for his wrestling group and everyone had a good time.
Had my S all weekend and we had fun. S hit me up on Wednesday telling me I need to give mom money so she's not poor. I explored that a little trying to figure out if my W set him up or if he was just parroting what he hears. I'm pretty sure he was just parroting. I told him I do give mom money and that seemed to satisfy him.
Nothing really remarkable to report I'm afraid. I've been really busy though lately. So much that I never seem to have time to even clean the house or keep up with stuff. It's crazy. But I'm having fun. Still miss my W though... or at least miss "us". It comes in waves... my C says that's normal and to expect it. I just let it roll over me and don't fight it when it comes. It seems to pass pretty quickly when it does come.
W is struggling I can see that, but not doing anything about it. Tonight we were comparing schedule notes on the kids. She mentioned that she is getting tested for ADHD. She's worried about starting school and failing. Yep, I'd worry about that too. She admitted to me tonight how much I helped keep her on task and helped her get through nursing school. Then at one point she says "I'm so sick of being alone" and then quickly amended it to "I'm still getting used to being alone."
One amusing piece I find is her filing for the D, or lack thereof. I told her I wouldn't pay for it. It's $180... she told me again tonight that she hasn't filed yet because she lacks the money. Mind you she's gotten a new tattoo, spent the weekend out in a town 100 miles away, and replaced her phone that was on the fritz ($150). How we spend our money is a reflection of our priorities... so apparently our D doesn't rise about the above list of things.
Tomorrow night my S has his Kindergarten concert complete with a speaking role. He's very proud of himself. This weekend I get all three kids for two straight days and an overnight which makes me pretty happy. We're going to do Easter a day early so I can do it with them. SD's been asking for a sleepover and she finally gets one.
I'm getting used to being on my own... though I do have to get better at going to bed earlier! Hence I better logoff... this is an example of how I keep not meeting that goal!
I know! I stay up way too late and spend too much time here, but it helps so much.
WHG, you sound like you're in a much better place.
Thanks LA, I think I am. The thing I'm probably struggling with the most right now is still the impact on the kids. I don't see SS and SD enough to know the impact. My S is doing good but I can still see it. On Saturday he told me he doesn't like the divorce because it means he can't see mommy when he wants to and can't see daddy when he wants to.
Probably the other struggle is resolving the fact that my W benefits from me advocating for myself and I just have to accept that or stop doing certain things. It's usually in respect to the kids. My C and I have gone round and round with it and I can't seem to find a solution. Here's an example:
Last week I asked my W if I could have all the kids for a sleepover one night and then have them all day on Friday, sleepover again, and then all day Saturday. It's her weekend with the kids but she's working on Saturday and spring break starts Thursday. So it's a perfect chance for me to spend some real time with SS and SD. SD's been asking to sleepover and this seemed like a good time to make that happen.
When I asked my W about it she looked at me like I had grown a second head. I asked her what the problem was... she replied that the kids have school. Ummm... no, the kids are on spring break (as if I'd pull the kids out of school... hello?).
So long story short... she didn't realize this coming Sunday was Easter nor that spring break was starting this Thursday (I asked her this last Sunday by the way). Since she didn't realize it she had no plans for child care or anything.
And so here I ride in again to save the day. It wasn't my intent... my intent was to spend some time with the kids, heck I was fearful she'd say no as Friday is her day off of work too.
So that frustrates me. I could have said nothing and not gotten the kids. Vacation would've blown up on her. I'm not trying to be vindictive, just letting her live her life. I would've really liked her to feel and experience that.
You've had that White Knight-Damsel in Distress dynamic going for so long, it will be hard to break.
My thinking on life has changed so much in the last year. I no longer believe it's my job to make sure other's get the consequences I think they deserve. If I live my life honestly, intentionally and according to my values (which includes allowing others to live their lives, travel their path and not rescue) life will provide all the lessons needed.
I am by no means an expert at this, I'm breaking a lifetime of patterns and it's a challenge but it sure feels better. Knowing my boundaries and being able to maintain them is difficult for me but it does help keep the bad stuff out. And I've heard that a person with really good boundaries needs very few.
Yes, it's tough when the kids are hurt by adult decisions. My kids have been affected and they are young adults. I'm going through difficult times with S19 right now. It hurts but I can't fix it, I can support him but I can't fix it. I spent an hour with my IC yesterday and can't count the number of times I said: "But I can't fix it for him." All I can do is love him and give him the support he needs to move through this. I have to see him as a capable human being who can handle life's difficulties, not handicap him by seeing him as a person who can't.
It is good to know that you are moving through this and that things are perhaps better than you thought they might be at this stage.
Wow... it's almost been a week since I posted an update. I guess I don't feel the pain quite as much now... that's what usually drove my postings. And today's been a little tough so I guess it makes sense that I find myself posting
It's been a pretty good week. Saw the kids a lot this week as W went back to work after her week of vacation. S had his concert this past week and had a speaking role, he was so proud of himself. He's definitely not shy of public speaking or microphones.
Had SS, SD, and S from Friday morning through this morning. It felt sooo good having a full house again. I guess that's why I'm a little down now... went from a full house to just me and that's quite a downshift. Taking some time to adjust to again I guess.
SS and SD were really at each other much of the weekend which made it a challenge at times but we still had fun. Took them out to dinner, to the pottery shop (SD had to finish her piece from S's birthday party), walked along the river, had an Easter dinner on Saturday since it was the last night they were here, my mom came. Ended the night with a bonfire, s'mores, and glow in the dark bubbles that the Easter bunny brought
SS and SD know there's no bunny but S still believes.
This morning I made them a big breakfast, we played some XBox and then took them back to W's house.
Haven't communicated with W much lately. Maybe once every few days about kid stuff. We talked a little this morning, again about kid stuff. She took the convo off into "her land" so she could vent about her life but I steered it back to the kids and then said I had to get going. She mentioned that she had woke up so hungry this morning and had thought about calling and asking if she could come over and have breakfast with us but she didn't because she didn't want to intrude. She's never been a huge fan of most of my cooking, but breakfast is the exception. She hates making breakfast and I love it and do a pretty good job
Then she asked me what I had going on today and invited me over for Easter dinner. It's her mom, sisters, and all their connections coming over... I told her I had plans but if I was in the area or felt like it I might drop by to say hi. I wasn't sure how I felt so I tried to buy some time. Plus I actually had a plan for today... after having three kids for three days my house needs some love, I wanted to get my garden tilled, the beds prepped, and outside work done. None of which would happen if I spend the afternoon at a place I don't feel all that welcome in with people whom aren't the folks I would volunteer to spend an afternoon with if I had the choice (except for my kids of course).
When I got home and thought about it I still couldn't figure out the invite. It felt to me like she was guilty about me being alone on the holiday. But it also felt like she was dreading dealing with her family all by herself (she's never had to do that btw... any time she's ever hosted a holiday thing with her family she's always been attached to someone). I don't know... I can't read her mind but as I thought about it I realized I didn't want to go. If either of those reasons were it then neither is good. If it's that she really just wanted me there... well... great, she can miss me then. I don't particularly want to spend time with her sisters, their husbands, and their kids... not if I don't have to. And I don't have to, so I didn't.
It's good to start putting yourself first for a change, isn't it?
My W cracks me up... I stopped by her house on the way to work this morning. SS left his school backpack and SS and SD left their electric toothbrushes, plus I had cupcakes left over from Easter and didn't want them around my house... kids are with W the next three days figured they'd eat them.
I knock, SS answers the door. I hand him the stuff give S a quick hug and kiss and turn to leave. I hear "[me] wait a minute!" from inside the house. W comes to the door and asks me... "Is tonight garbage night at my house?"
She just totally cracks me up. I'm afraid I couldn't help her out... I have no clue when garbage night is at her house.
^^^^^
W comes to the door and asks me... "Is tonight garbage night at my house?"
She just totally cracks me up. I'm afraid I couldn't help her out... I have no clue when garbage night is at her house.
Hang on...I've been told I'm really good with trash. Let me check the calendar!
2, you crack me up! Could you check and see what my trash days is this week? And I could use some help getting it OUT OF THE HOUSE!
It's good to start putting yourself first for a change, isn't it?
Putting yourself first is a good idea, when you are trying to stop the chase, trying to focus on yourself, trying to make yourself happy.
It changes your INTERACTIONS, which is DBing.
Good job!
It's good to start putting yourself first for a change, isn't it?
Yes it is. I will admit, there was some guilt at first. I felt bad as I left her house knowing I wouldn't take up her invite. But I think that guilt was simply my programming from years of being her husband. Which while I still am it's in title only so I don't need to play a role for which I'm not getting headliner credit.
To continue on the funny things my W does...
On Friday I was there with the kids while they picked up their clothes. W and I were talking in her kitchen. She always has music playing off her iPod through a stereo. This rap song came on with swear words and what not so she gets this sheepish look and walks over and hits "forward", not wanting the kids to hear the song.
The next song comes on... I can't remember it's name but it's about a gal who leaves her guy and then by the time she comes back to her guy he's already moved on and she's left alone. I know the song because obviously it has spoken to me the last few months. I can see she recognizes it, rolls her eyes, sighs, and walks over and hits forward again. I just played dumb
W texted me this morning. I'm getting better at managing that. I was in a meeting and saw it was from her. They're almost never critical so I left it. Then I forgot about it until about an hour later when my phone reminded me. Oops.
When I looked I saw it was my W telling me she feels sick today and wanted to know if I could get off work early to come and watch the kids while she slept. W.. T.. F.. The sad part is that my first inclination, still, is to say "sure!" but this time I controlled myself. I thought about it for a little bit. Tried to balance my values. I opted for putting my work first and not getting the kids. Not so much because it was about rescuing or not rescuing her, but because the last half of last year was largely lost productivity-wise and I am making an effort to fix that. Lots of people's jobs (not to mention their housing or local economies) rely on me being creative and productive. I have to stop letting them down just because my own life started falling down around me.
So I texted her back that I couldn't. I also had the story of how she manipulated her XH when we first met running in the back of my head. I wasn't going to be that patsy.
And my W knows me... she texted back thanks for letting her know. But had to throw in a line that she hopes she can get enough sleep tomorrow so she's not sick on Thursday and has to skip S's field trip that she is chaperoning. She knows this type of line trips my guilt trigger. But I let it go and didn't respond. If she makes it to the field trip she does, if she doesn't she doesn't. S will be fine either way. He'll be upset initially but once there he'll forget about it. And if not... well... I can't insulate him from his mother forever.
I also thought about the fact that rarely do I get a text where she's not asking for something. Most are kid related and not requests. But those that aren't kid-related generally are. Never a "how you doing?" or "what's up". Once in a while a funny story or kid-related photo or comment. I'm not going to allow this to be a one-sided thing where I provide and she consumes.
So I texted her back that I couldn't. I also had the story of how she manipulated her XH when we first met running in the back of my head. I wasn't going to be that patsy.
And my W knows me... she texted back thanks for letting her know. But had to throw in a line that she hopes she can get enough sleep tomorrow so she's not sick on Thursday and has to skip S's field trip that she is chaperoning. She knows this type of line trips my guilt trigger. But I let it go and didn't respond.
Good for you! You are definitely getting better at this as time goes on. Keep it up!
nice work
she wanted to be on her own then she should taste what on her own is like
W texted me this morning. I'm getting better at managing that. I was in a meeting and saw it was from her. They're almost never critical so I left it. Then I forgot about it until about an hour later when my phone reminded me. Oops.
Detachment is good.
Next thing you know you'll be writing a script for a new hit TV show called, "Sh*t my WAW says."
WHG...
Ive been reading your post since you started and have always been impressed with your abilities as a father.
I gotta tell you that I am the most impressed at your relationship with you SS and SD. My STBXH has had no contact at all with his 2 SSs since the day he dropped the bomb, 7 months ago. Two boys that he raised as his own for 19yrs and he absolutely just disapeared and hasnt looked back. It takes a special kind of man to keep a relationship going with kids that society says "arent yours" but obviousely you dont believe that.
Those kids must think your pretty awesome for that!!..:)
Thx ITM... I grew up in a household where we loved and cared for lots of kids, so in part it comes naturally I think. At any given time we had 7-8 foster kids living in our house (I was the only non-foster kid) and all of them had histories of serious abuse, neglect, and mental health issues (so is it any wonder I'm a fixer??). I learned from my mom that all kids deserve love, it really doesn't cost anything to give it, and there's not enough of it to go around.
Had SS and SD over this morning as W had to work a nightshift. Their dad dropped them by. I feel for them... this is the first time this has occurred, where their dad has dropped them at my house on a school morning (this happens 2-3 times a week @ w's house). I feel for them because I could see how tired and exhausted they were. They both laid on the couch and chair and slept for an hour while I got ready and could take them to school. It was good to see them but sad to see how it is for them.
Ended up talking with my W tonight to make plans for SD's birthday. Same drill as S's birthday. Split the cost 50/50 and the presents. When she called I let it go to voice mail. She left me this ambiguous "call me back so we can sort out some stuff". I figured it was going to be a D talk... but no, just birthday stuff.
Found out yesterday I need a root canal... bleh... I hate dentists. But at least maybe my tooth will stop hurting finally. But on the upside my new Star Wars XBox 360 came today... having extra money is cool. I never had any when we lived together because W spent most of it and I didn't have the balls to stand up to her until near the very end. Plus running a house with me and six year old is a lot less expensive than a family of five!
You sound great Whg!!
The back and forth sounds tough on SS and SD. My kids go back and forth almost every day and it definitely affects them but my w is only a few miles away.
I also need a root canal and HATE the dentist. I've been putting it off but my tooth is killing me now.
Glad to hear an update from you.
Best!!
Lately I don't really know how I feel... it's been an strange couple of days. I feel sort of numb. I'm angry with my W and still hurt. I don't feel like I'm "pining" for her or waiting for her. At the same time I don't feel like I'm living my life. Though I am... my GAL is more than ever. W mentioned/complained today that I seem to travel more now than I have in the past... and I do because I'm not worried about pissing her off with my travel. I just don't know how I feel I guess.
Spent the weekend with my S. He loves the new Star Wars XBox game so we did a bunch of that. But we also worked on our garden, took walks, and saw grandma.
My interactions with my W have been odd. Last week she called me to discuss SD's birthday. I can't explain it but it wasn't a normal conversation. She told me about chaperoning S's museum trip with her class. Part of me wonders if I'm reading things that aren't there, but part of me felt the convo as different. When she called I told her I was busy and asked if she could call back later. She agreed. No anger or frustration, which would be usual for her. She even asked about the quote for replacing the roof which she knows is something I've been very worried about. Anyway, I can't find words to explain it but it was a different convo. She wanted to do SD's birthday on Saturday. I told her I had GAL plans and since I had asked her, repeatedly, for details and hadn't gotten them I made plans. She got angry at this and wanted me to change plans. I refused. We finally settled on Sunday for the birthday party.
Then the next day I get a text saying she's printing off the divorce stuff and wants to know if there were any Word docs. Yes, there were.. the ones I've sent her three times now. I tell her I'm busy and will re-send them when I have a chance. And so part of me sees this as the pulling away after the unusual convo the previous days.
Then the next day, Sunday, I get a text from her as I'm putting S to bed. I ignore it. Then I get a call. I let it go to voice mail. Then the doorbell rings. I go downstairs and there she is. I had locked the screen door against the wind so she couldn't get in. I guess I should've expected it to be her but I didn't. I was actually shocked. She has never dropped by unannounced before. She asks if S is in bed yet and I tell her I'm just putting him down. She asks if she can say goodnight to him quick since she was in the area (her best friend lives a block away). I tell her ok and we go upstairs. S is thrilled to see her.
Now before someone tasks me to task... in hindsight I don't think I should've let her in. But honestly I was so shocked she was standing there that my brain didn't even click in until we were walking into my S's room. She has never just shown up. I don't know why she did it and I didn't ask. It had been many days since she saw any of the kids and she was on vacation so she had time on her hands to miss them. Perhaps that was it. I don't know.
Today we went shopping for SD's presents as we had agreed to do. Again with the push/pull. We talked about lots of things, but never the divorce, mainly the kids. She was very sick, again, and complained about how all the stress in her life makes her sick so often.
Thursday was when she called about SD's birthday and it was at my request. Prior to that I hadn't talked, texted, or seen her for almost a week. Then it's been her reaching out somehow almost every day since. This hot and cold thing is awkward to handle.
Letting her in to see your son was the right thing to do. She is the mother after all. You would want her to do the same for you. Everything else was good. Great job.
So I had an interesting conversation with someone last night. They asked how things were going and how I was doing. Asked if there was any movement or "thawing" on my W's behalf. I said I really didn't know. Things don't seem all that different, though these push/pull behavior keep happening. That my W still seems confused and lost, not just about our M but about everything.
Then this person asked if I had started dating or looking to date. I said no, not really. And then they replied "oh, still waiting around for her, huh?"
And that's what made me start thinking. I don't know if I am waiting around for her. My visceral reaction was no. I replied that I've certainly toyed with the idea, but any time I look at a personals site or flirt back with anyone I just get... tired. This overwhelming sense of exhaustion comes over me. Like.. I just don't have the energy to do it.
I told this person that I'm just working on being a single dad, a single stepdadish person, and a single guy. Quite frankly that's enough right now. Most days I pass out at the end of the day from everything and the stress.
But the comment has nagged at me all day. Am I waiting for her? I mean I guess I am, right? Is the absence of dating or looking for the next relationship equal waiting? Is that the default?
I do want my W back, with conditions. I'm not ready to shut the hatch and blast off. Maybe if we didn't have a S together I would be ready to do that, but I know how badly my S wants his mom and dad together. He's doing well, very well all things considered, but that doesn't mean he likes it or doesn't want his family back together.
So it still eats at me. I feel like if I truly am waiting then that's not a good place to be. It allows her to be in the driver's seat. But I also don't know that I agree with the concept that not actively seeking the next relationship equates into waiting for the last one to reconcile.
Ended up a blubbering mess last night... thankfully no one around really to see it. S saw me get sad but not distraught. And it's not even W related.
SD had her fourth grade concert last night. W had to work and it was SD's night with her dad so he took her. I went though and took S. I told my S that SD is family and going to things like concerts is what family does. My mom came too so it was the three of us. We didn't sit with SD's dad. I didn't see him though I didn't look too hard either
SD did great. She had a solo (in Japanese) and a speaking role. As we were leaving S wanted to find her and give her a hug and tell her she did great (he really looks up to his big sister). But there were so many people we never found her. Her dad isn't the hang around type anyway and by the time we made it through the throngs there was no sign of her.
S was very sad. As we got into the car I suggested that we send SD a text message, and that S could tell me what he wanted it to say and I'd type it. He thought that was a good idea.
So I pull my phone out (which had been on silent due to the concert) and see I have a waiting text message. It's from SD and says, "Thanks for coming tonight. See you in the morning!" And then for some reason I lost it. I even tear up now typing this.
Just frustrated that she even has to send that message. Before this she would've come home with us, to our house. Anyway, I replied and then sent S's text message too. I was touched that she sent me a message. But it still broke my heart that she had to.
Eh... crappy day emotionally... W worked a night shift last night. So this morning I had to get up early for some GAL on the other side of the state. As I'm heading across the state I get am email from her about how she's printing off the divorce paperwork and has a couple questions. How she wants us to find a date in a few weeks to do the signing so she can file. Bleh. Brings up a crapstorm of emotions and pain. Ended up crying. Thankfully I had a two hour drive to get it out of my system.
I guess the upside is that it didn't really rain on my GAL. I was able to put it out of my head for the most part.
It's just the immediacy of it I guess. On the upside the words of 25 and others kept running through my head... it' just a step in the process... it's never too late until they say "I do" to someone else... and my own words to others... it's just a piece of paper, just a legal confirmation of the emotional state of things... It's just filing, not the actual decree yet.
But it still suxx.
And tomorrow I have to spend the mid-morning with her at SD's birthday party. Guess I'll have to act "as if".
Those crazy emotions can creep up on us, can't they.
I think I haven't cried in about 2 weeks, a new record fro me since last March.
Have fun tomorrow.
SD's rollerskating party went better than I had thought it would. Just kept the "as-if" mentality in force throughout the day.
A humorous moment came when S was first trying to skate. He's never rollerskated before and he's only six. So he was struggling and freaking out. First I tried to help him, then my W tried. He finally agreed to skate around as long as W held his hand and I held his other hand. So there were the three of us going around the rink looking like the prototypical family. Go figure. When S first said he wanted us to both hold his hands I could tell it frustrated my W. After a few times around S went of to play on the indoor playground. However, a little while later he wanted to try again. This time W didn't fret as we went around.
S rode with me so as we got done I asked W what her plans were. She was going to go home and nap after SD's friends were picked up, and have S and SD (SS was with grandpa) watch TV or movies while she napped. So I asked if I could take S and SD since W would be sleeping anyway (W worked until 8am that morning). She said that was fine so we all headed back to my place. S and SD helped me plant most of the vegetable garden.
A while later SS texts me and asks where everyone is at. Grandpa brought him back early so I said mom was sleeping. He asked if he could come over so he did. He wanted to mow the yard since I pay him $10 for it
So my FIL brought SS over and then he stayed and visited with S and SD for a while. He and I caught up and talked about guy stuff. No mention of anything... those convos are sort of surreal.
Evening ended with W asking if she could park at my place so she could walk to her bellydancing. She wanted to park at my place since she needed to get the kids afterward anyway. SD went with her to dance and then about 30 minutes later SD texts me and asks if I'd come get her.
Funny moment happened when W came to my place after dance to pick up the kids... she comes in and asks in a panicked voice, "did the kids get fed?" Umm... yes, it's 7pm, I wouldn't starve them. W had made a crockpot meal but forgot about it and about feeding the kids. Which was fine, they were with me.
So I got a bunch of time I hadn't planned on having with all three kids so that makes a good day. SD had fun. Her friends thought I was funny. I overheard one of her friends telling her that she wished her dad would come to her birthday parties at her mom's.
I still struggle with feeling like I'm enabling my W too much. Like taking the kids while she napped makes it easier on her. And it does. But I have to take time as I can get it so I battle with myself.
I still struggle with feeling like I'm enabling my W too much. Like taking the kids while she napped makes it easier on her. And it does. But I have to take time as I can get it so I battle with myself.
I don't consider this enabling and I wouldn't care if anyone else considered it such. I want to spend as much time w/ my kids as possible and I know you do as well. Sounds like they miss you and feel the same way. Those moments are fantastic and are to be cherished.
My w is initating L talk and separation agremeements/divorce and as you said is just a step in the process but it def sux!!
What I struggle with is "do what works". Nothing seems to really work. When W and I don't have contact for an extended period, say a week or five days, she "finds" a reason to contact me/come over. When I spend time with the kids, take them somewhere, enrich their lives somehow she's warm and chatty.
But she's like that most of the time if I don't do that as well.
About the only time things go south is when she wants something and I won't do it/give it/acquiesce. But even that passes fairly quickly.
So since nothing seems to make a significant difference I'm choosing to maximize time I can with my S and with SS and SD.
Our contact remains limited to the kids. I don't text her, email her, call her, or drop by if I'm having a bad day, have a problem, or whatnot. I don't share my successes/victories or my problems with her. Conversely she likes to share her problems with me whenever she can but I try to keep that short and limited.
For example, yesterday I was sitting at a table at the rink. Suddenly she's sitting across from me. We start discussing feeding the kids and what time we need to leave. Then she asks how my job is going. So I tell her. As it happens I'm working on a project with her employer (a large government agency). She then rolls into problems and challenges at her job. I listen for a minute or two and then excuse myself to go skate.
What I struggle with is "do what works". Nothing seems to really work.
Define what "what works" means to you...
For some... "what works" might be that they are growing, regardless of what is happening to the M...
For others... "what works" might be that their spouse is showing signs of moving towards them...
And even for some... "what works" is that they emotionally detach from their spouse, file D, and get on with their lives...
What were your goals?
What have you done to achieve those goals?
How can you determine that nothing seems to be working, in relation to achieving your goals?
Good point KD... I would say I have goals in all of those areas. Growing, detaching, and signs my W may want to move towards me.
In this case I'm only specifically referring to the last category. I'm actually pretty happy with progress in the other two areas. My GAL is increased, though there is still more to do. However, what I ultimately want out of GAL, more long-term friendships (and specifically male ones) take time. True relationship building takes time no matter what, so patience is a key. But I am happier with that facet of my life while acknowledging there is room to grow still.
Detaching... this last week I haven't done as well for some reason but overall I've felt much more at peace. She will do what she does, but I don't have to ride her rollercoaster. I think because my S has shown more dissatisfaction with the state of things in the past week that it's eating at me. But I feel much better than I ever used to. W still throws the occassional guilt trip comment or little barb into a comment. It might be about money, time, how tired she is, how hard this is, her stress, etc... in the past I would've fretted and worried. Heck, I can hear it in my mother (where I learned this from). She'll go on these rambling monologues about why is my W doing this, isn't it hard, what is she thinking. My response... I don't know and can't begin to so why spend the time.
It's the third category... the movement that frustrates me. But I have to remember that this is still new. It's just past 60 days since she moved out. That's really nothing in the scope of things. But it's frustrating too. I struggle with the reality that she may never come back. That thought used to incapacitate me. Now it just makes me profoundly sad. I suspect in due course it will just make me sad and then that too will lessen.
Due to the fact that the two of you are not living together... seeing "movement" may be difficult... if bordering impossible...
You may need to change your gauge for those measurements. Rather than having the opportunity to see my W hug or kiss me... or not... or go out without me... or with me... or make supper for everyone... else... and not me... I don't have those gauges...
What I can tell is: she's not yelling at me, she's not blamed me about anything for a long time, she got mad at me because I didn't go to a sporting event because I knew she would be there with her "private" friends... real, real, real peripheral stuff... but it's there... change where you are looking to gauge...
I'm done in my stich... in my M... but I can tell you this...
Our R is not getting any worse, any more... at least it doesn't appear to be... but she's not moving toward me... but I'm not concerned about that... but I would notice if she was...
so yes... patience means something different in a way... when separated... time... time... time... time... and more time... until you are done... or until you wake up on the other side of the grass... or... who knows what the future hold...
WHG, I want to chime in on this topic, I dont want to hijack your thread by no means. I am already D and have been for about six months. Its funny because I to do not tell my ex anything about my life now. I quit doing this a while back, and wouldnt you know the other day she calls me and tells me her life is miserable, all she does is drive to work and work, I did not say anything which even made her more frustrated. She is the one who choose to move and hour away so I guess she will figure it out. I often wonder why the WAS will call the LBS to tell them there problems. About a week ago she called and told me the battery in her car was bad, I asked her why she was calling me and she said because her boyfriend did not know as much as me about stuff. I almost busted a gut. But I did give her advice because she have to transports my girls and I want the car to be working properly. So the big question in my mind is WHY, WHY, WHY do they call us. It is there choice and decision they make. I to had a problem about enabling her, but with kids I think its a thin line, I always as you do want to be there for my girls, so I can feel for you WHG. Keep on Trucking it does get better....Scott
You're right KD... I'm still used to when we lived together and being able to have that immediate feedback. I need to take stock in where things are at versus where they were. Heck, I remember back in October when she wouldn't talk to me. That we would be divorced by December... then January... then February at the latest. Now it will be August at the earliest and who really knows.
That we can talk and get along where once we couldn't. She invited me to Easter; though I didn't take the offer. She initiated going out to lunch last week when we were shopping for SD's presents... and she didn't have to. We got done at 10:30, which makes for an early lunch.
Just left her place for the night. Had the kids tonight. We went to the local drive-in and took a walk. Got homework done at my place and then got them to bed at her place. She showed up and I updated her on some kid things and left. Won't see SD or SS until next Monday, nor her. I leave Thursday for a GAL trip to Alabama for four days. I'll miss S a bunch and still conflicted that this chance came up during my weekend with him, but it is what it is.
I know my opinion is not popular, and what worked for me may not work for another. But I see no boundaries set between you and your w.
She's tired, wants to nap, you rescue.
The old way won't work anymore if it didn't work before.
She cannot know what life is going to be like without you in it, because you are there a large percentage of time.
I don't know, but, I'd be setting some serious boundaries. If my ex walked out on me, I wouldn't let him use me as a sounding board at all, and, wouldn't let him dine with me, and.... etc.
I would set a boundary, "do not contact unless it's strictly about the kids. Everything else makes me uncomfortable".
I just don't see how she can miss you, WHG.
I guess I need to put my 2x4 away now and wish you the best.
She's tired, wants to nap, you rescue
I do know where you're coming from CT and I appreciate it. That is the exact thing I struggle with. Did I need to let her take a nap? No. Could I have left her with the kids? Yes. Would that have meant giving up that time I got to have with the kids? Yes.
So then... it's a judgment and values call. At this point I've been choosing to maximize my time with the kids ahead of not "rescuing" her. Though I haven't sought out opportunities to rescue her either. In essence, if she benefits from my desire to maximize time with the kids, then I guess she benefits.
Does this make it more likely that we won't recon? No one knows that. Does it make it more likely that we will? No one knows that either.
The only thing I do know is what I can control. I can control whether I choose to maximize my time with my kids, particularly SS and SD. I can spend time with them and let them know they are still loved.
At this point I value having them know they are loved and cared for over the amorphous odds of not being there impacting my W to the point where she chooses to get back together. I am cognizant of the choice and aware of both sides.
And it's what makes me happy. Being a part of SD's birthday makes me happy. Having my house filled with the kids, the laughing, the squabbles, all of it makes me happy.
I know that there is a chance that doing the opposite brings that back full-time. There's also just as good, if not greater, chance that it doesn't make a difference.
If I didn't have to play "third fiddle" in the lives of my SS and SD the demarcation line would be much clearer. But it isn't so I keep evaluating based on my own values.
Not much too update though it's been a while. Haven't talked to my W in almost a week. Spent the end of last week and the weekend in Alabama with some other volunteer members working on changes to the national structure of our youth program. It was fun though tiring too. But it was good... rarely during my time down there did I think about my sitch. Usually only at night before turning in... in the past that's when I would've called her to say good night.
Got home and missed my S so much! Really missing SS and SD too... saw my son Thursday morning before I left but haven't seen SS or SD since last week Tuesday. I'll get to see SS tonight though.
Hmmm... saw W tonight briefly. Had SS and S tonight and took them over to W's house to put S to bed on time. W was annoyed that I put him to bed on-time and she didn't get to see him. C'est la vie.
I was working with SS to get his dress uniform squared away for this weekend. I mentioned to W that he needs a haircut as his haircut doesn't meet regulation. It didn't meet regs three weeks ago either when I also mentioned it. She got sort of "pissy". Not at me per se, but just generally. She starts on this riff about how she just got paid, her check was shorter than she thought it would be, and she barely has enough for rent.
Yeah.. that suxx. I grabbed my coat and told her I'd see her Friday when she gets the kids, then walked out. She followed. She apologized for going off about the money, that she knows it's not my problem.
We discussed Wednesday where she agreed to watch S while I am out of town for work for the night. She failed to realize she works the next morning and having S means she has to scramble that morning. Ok... well, you said you'd do it and I haven't made other plans so I expect you will still do it. She agreed she would and said she didn't want me to think she was trying to get out of it... though that's exactly what it was. Or if not get out of it, get me to solve her problem for her. I simply said that I'd be out of town so she'll have to figure it out.
She started to vent about her job. This was the job that was the solution to her life. It was part of what triggered her MLC I think.. she was so secure that she was ready to "go it alone". I just said I had to go and walked out to my car.
I'll admit it was hard leaving, but it's always hard. I miss my kids so much. But it was a relief as well. I was perfectly fine not having to own her issues.
I'll admit it was hard leaving, but it's always hard. I miss my kids so much. But it was a relief as well. I was perfectly fine not having to own her issues.
Detachment is a beautiful thing. Isn't it, WHG?
I hadn't thought of it that way... but you're right. All I was thinking as I sat in my van was "dang... I used to have to listen to all that".
I could still feel the old tensions build up... could feel my brain kicking in to troubleshoot as she complained about her boss, her co-workers, her employer. She even kept chatting as I walked down the sidewalk.
But I was able to stop myself. To simply empathize and say "sorry" and leave. And I meant it... I do feel sorry for her. She's very lost and struggling. I know it's largely self-inflicted, but that doesn't change the pain. I can still feel empathy for someone even if they made their own bed.
But since there's nothing I can do about it, it's not worth spending my time on changing.
Ok... if anyone sees this in the next 30-45 minutes please respond, I need advice!
This is the text message I just got from my W, "I'm about to cry... I don't have enough money for my meds or SS's haircut or anything else the next two fu@%ing weeks... any way you can pay for SS to get a haircut tonight?" Then goes on about how she can pay me back next check as there's extra (three pay period month). She ends it with, "I hate to ask but I'm really having a bad time and don't know what to do..."
The backdrop is that I had already decided on Friday that if SS hadn't had a haircut yet I'd get him one. Why? Two reasons. First, if SS shows up with his haircut out of regs he'll get crap from his command structure (as he should). Second, the Commander's kid can't show up with his hair out of regulation... that's just not cool. Irregardless of whether he's mine or not, or the divorce/separation, or whatever... it makes me look bad to have my cadet out of compliance and it makes him look bad through no fault of his own.
But I had just planned to do it. Now she throws the begging into the equation. Bah. Any advice is great. I know this is rescuing... this suxx
Give him the haircut. You are rescuing him, not her.
What's with the 30-45 minute panic?
Anyway, I'd say:
"Your in luck, lol. I'd already planned to make SS a gift of a haircut tonight. I need my cadet to look good. So, I'll just continue with that plan. To be clear, no need to pay me back as this is a gift from me to him. But, to be frank, I'm uncomfortable with your request to borrow money."
Or leave off the last sentence. But it really is inappropriate for her to continue to use you as emotional/financial support AND for you to continue to be her emotional/financial support.
If nothing else, please remember not to parent her. You need to learn how to not be her Daddy.
Thanks OT... you sure you didn't my text by mistake? Not sure what the time panic was for... I guess I didn't really want to get a follow-up one from her. The first set me aside enough.
Anyway, I went with a response on my own after just thinking about it for a while... though it was eerily similar to what you said. I came to a place where it was about SS and about me.
I also offered it as a gift... and said that I would take him. If I'm going to pay for it I want the chance to spend some time with him. And I told her it was my gift to him... no need to pay me back.
I had a line about how I'm sorry she's struggling. Then I took it out. Not because I'm not sorry, but because that's not my role.
English teacher here....
irregardless is not a word...
pet peeve of mine
the word you are looking for is regardless
back to your regularly scheduled thread
[quote]At this point I value having them know they are loved and cared for over the amorphous odds of not being there impacting my W to the point where she chooses to get back together. I am cognizant of the choice and aware of both sides.
And it's what makes me happy. Being a part of SD's birthday makes me happy. Having my house filled with the kids, the laughing, the squabbles, all of it makes me happy.
I feel the exact same way and I'm on a path to peace and happiness so their are certain things like spending time with my kids that I value more and are more important than the potential relationship effects it could have.
I get where CT is coming from as well and its a tough line to walk. I try to make my decisions based on what I think is best for me and my kids. Whatever happens after that I will accept.
I know Say but don't you just wonder sometimes? It's got to be the hardest part of this ridiculousness. Feeling like doing "right" can also by synonymous with "doing harm". Just frustrating.
Got an email from her tonight (I'm out of town and she has S tonight as a favor to me since it's my night). She brought up filing for the D again. Said she thinks she'll have enough money next paycheck to file or she'll borrow money from her dad.
This time though she couched the filing in doing it for my interest. This way I can move ahead with buying the house. I can pay off my van and get a new vehicle (she's buying out my van with some of the proceeds from her half of my 401k). I can't tell if she's trying to be less cold or trying to angle in that I should pay for it by promoting my self-interest. But I'm just going to ignore it. She'll do what she does. We're still trying to figure out summer care for S so I can't just ignore her email completely.
W is simply acting out like a petulant child because you didn't rescue her.
And, perhaps, because you did that rather manipulative -- I get the kid if I pay for the haircut thing. Not pretty. Better to wait until he was with you.
But, mostly I think she's just acting out. She's pissed at you. She's pissed that she's likely questioning her own choices. So, she's making threats.
I promise you, it is NOT about making your life better in any shape or form.
And, you've chosen the right course. Ignore it.
When she files, let your L handle ALL communication. Just trust me on this.
I've ignored and plan to continue to do so. And I feel like a knuckle-head... how I didn't see it as a pull-back after the haircut thing... seriously, how did I miss that?
And it even fits her pattern. Each time there is a moment where she opens herself up there is an email within a day or two discussing the divorce filing. Though this was by far the nicest tone to one of those emails. Went shopping for S's birthday presents.. two days later D filing email. Had party for S... two days later D filing email. Went shopping for SD's gifts... two days later D filing email. The whole haircut thing, which was by far the most vulnerable moment she's shown me so far, the next day a D filing email. I mean really... how I missed the pattern I don't know.
Anyway, I continue to not understand her. I got home from out of town and had to relay a few things to her about our S (school stuff and he's sick). One of them was that I needed his tennis shoes as he had a nasty-gram from the gym teacher for not having his shoes today and has gym tomorrow (he was at her place last night). I ask her to just leave them on a bench in her garage and we'll swing by the morning to pick them up.
Then 45 minutes later there's a knock on the door... it's her. She brought the shoes over. Ok, thanks. She asks about my trip and about S. She proceeds to go, yet again, into the land of how hard her life is right now. I tell her I need to unpack and go to bed as I was up early and slept poorly last night in the hotel. She apologizes and sees herself out.
WTF.
The hardest part though was when she came in she sat in the big oversized chair. I was sitting at the computer in the computer chair. I can't tell you how many conversations we had over the years sitting just like this. I haven't seen her sitting in that chair in.... months. How I didn't break down I don't know, and why it hit me so hard seeing her there in that chair... man. But it did.
I'm at the point where I miss parts of her. When I picked SS up the other night for his haircut the dark, foul, angry W was present. The one I don't miss. The one that still makes me feel all jittery and angst filled inside. But the pleasant, funny one who was here tonight (at least until she slipped into depressed, sad W) I miss. It's just that they all come together. I don't know if I could ever go back to all of them. Ideally she can get help to banish the dark/bitter/angry versions but that's not been in the cards and doesn't appear to be.
Frustrating.
Maybe she is confused about her choices, and after she opens up to you and is warm and pleasant, she realizes what she did, pulls back, and sends another d email to let you know there's still a wall there.
Maybe this is how she's re-setting the distance?
After my first ex walked out on me and his daughter, so he could start his new life, he would contact me in a similar fashion as your w contacts you. He would also come by late at night for these "can we just talk?" episodes. Or there were emails and voice mails. I allowed this to go on because some small part of me had hope inside that the reason he was contacting me meant that he was going to come back to me. I held on to it for a long time until I woke up and realized that for every time he contacted me, a nasty period would follow. I was just putting up with the nasty stuff too long and finally shut him down. Finally got my nerve to just tell him not to contact me unless it's about our daughter. He reacted like a child and threatened to take the car away that we agreed was going to be mine.
After a long time of the back and forth I got tired and decided enough was enough, either he's coming back or I'm moving on.
With my H, it was different. He did not really want to leave (as he revealed in MC), so when I detached, it scared him.
I think you are doing a good job WHG at balancing all of this. I hope I did not come off as detachment as being easy because it is not. It's the hardest thing ever, especially with kids involved. It's so hard to know what to do in each situation that comes up. I have found myself sitting alone thinking.... if I do this, what will happen. If I do that... then what! It's very stressful.
Do some good things for you WHG. Don't forget to take care of you, and do special things for you too.
WHG where are you? Are you doing ok?
Hey WHG- Hope all is well!!
Thanks guys... yes, I'm alive
That's funny, I popped on here today thinking "geez... it's been a while since I've been on the boards." I've got a low-impact day today... I should catch up and post an update
I can't believe it's been two weeks since I last updated... I don't think I've ever gone that long before. Things have more or less fallen into a routine of sorts I guess. The schedule W and I have with our S works. He seems to be doing okay with break up, though who can really tell. Every so often he talks about how he hates the divorce. Or tells me that divorces break up families. Last week he devised a plan where I would buy a house out in the country. Then we could all be together again because he knows mommy wants to live out in the country. Sorry kid... if only that would do it.
I get time with SS and SD sparingly. That remains the most depressing part of this whole process. The last two weeks have been harder as my W's work schedule has moved around so now it's one day a week. SS at least gets to do the volunteer group every other weekend so he sleeps over every other Friday and goes with me Saturday mornings.
Mother's Day was hard I'll admit. I always loved Mother's Day and would plan for months what my gift would be. Of course not this year (well, except for my mom)
S insisted though that we needed to get mom a gift. He made a gift box at school and wanted something in it. So I caved and took him to the store. He kept looking at $100 necklaces. Finally I gave him $10 and told him to pick something out. Of course he's 6 so he still wanted help.
He also was adamant that he give his gift and card (that he made) to her on Mother's Day (though it was my weekend). So I texted my W the night before and told her that our S wanted her to stop by before she went to work. I was surprised that she said she had stopped by that morning to say hi, but we were gone (which we were). I think Mother's Day weekend with no kids was really getting to her. Anyway, it went well. S and her visited for a bit. We chatted a few minutes and she was on her way. Church that morning was hard though as it was about mothers, and it just hurt that my S's mother had opted out of being there and out of the family.
Another funny/awkward moment was the day before Mother's Day. S and I were out for a bike ride. He found some wild flocks and picked them. He wanted to stop by my W's house (we were two blocks away) and leave the flowers in a vase for mom. That seemed creepy to me... even though it was from S... so we settled on leaving them in her mailbox and a text message from S to her that he left them for her.
So what else is new... guess not much. Bought a trail-a-bike for my S. Best $200 I've spent in a long time. We go on 5-6 mile bike rides together now. He loves it and good fun for me. Certainly not JB-level riding, but hey, I've got a six year old on the back
GAL is going good... seem constantly busy. Still missing just outright "fun" activities (like parties, out for dinner, etc...) but other fun activities are filling the time. Doing a lot of work with my volunteer group. Last month I was asked to be part of a six-person national workgroup working on improving our youth program so I spent four days in Alabama meeting the group. That same weekend my chapter of the youth group won the award for the best youth programming/group in Wisconsin.
Still no change on the divorce front. Just last night W mentioned again that she's so broke she can't afford to file. While I know she's broke (last week she had a letter on the counter showing she bounced $125 in checks) I'm not buying it. This isn't to say she doesn't believe it... I think she just feels she has her necessary space and isn't driven anymore to D. Not that she doesn't want to or isn't planning on it, just that it's not a priority. I've seen how she spends her money and there a number of things she's prioritized ahead of that. Her dad would give her the $200 in a heartbeat, but still nothing. And it cuts both ways... I could pay for it at any point. But I've set the boundary that I won't pay for a divorce I don't want. At the same time that's just a convenient way of not having to face whether it should happen.
I keep getting pressure from friends and co-workers to file. "I'm a catch" according to many... a job, only one kid, smart, upwardly mobile, paid well, own a house, etc... That there'd be lots of women hoping to find a guy like me. But honestly I still get tired when I think of someone else. A new relationship means investing yourself and I just don't have the capital right now to invest. I'm also not willing to give up yet... just live my life and see where things go. Ride the ride as it were.
W and I pretty much don't talk unless it's kid related. It's still a little odd when she gets home and I'm there after having put all the kids to bed. She likes to launch into her life's dramas. But I keep it short and leave. I was surprised that she asked on Monday if I was ok because my car had been in the driveway all day. As it turns out I was sick and sleeping all day.
One other observation I wanted to share that I find weird... my W keeps texting and Facebook messaging with my brother and niece. I have no idea what that's about...
my brother is going through rough times... and she'll just shoot him messages of support and ask how it's going. It's not an attraction thing and he lives a few hundred miles away.
My niece lives closer. She always looked up to my W. Now she is very angry with her because of what my W has done. But my W sends her messages saying how proud she is of her for her success at college, etc...
This completely confuses me. I find it funny too that she talks to my relatives more than me
And they think she's nuts.
Trying not to make it weeks between postings... but so very busy right now. I volunteered for a number of projects and they all are coming due at the same time.... not enough hours in the day!
This strange little detente with my W continues. Last week took my S on a 16 mile bike ride... he was one tired little man when we got home
During the ride we took a break and he suddenly decided to start asking me about the divorce. He told me he hates mommy and is angry with her for causing the divorce. This is the first time I've heard this from him... I didn't really know what to say. At first I told him not to hate mommy, but then remembered the readings and my counselor telling me that I shouldn't tell him how to feel. So instead I tried to explain that mommy is doing what she thinks is best, and encouraged him to talk to her about it.
Since then I've been wrestling with whether I should share this with my W or not. It's a new expression from him we haven't seen to date. So far I haven't shared it... while I wouldn't intend the sharing to seem punitive or hurtful I can't seem to find a way where it doesn't seem like that.
Thursday was interesting as W came over so we could jointly meet with the summer babysitter. God bless my S, he cooks up little strategies... I ran the babysitter home while W stayed with S. When I got back S asked if we could go out to dinner. It was pretty late so I said yes. Turns out he'd already secured a commitment from my W to go out with us if I said yes. I said that was fine but mommy probably was busy. My W said that she was free and she could go with if S wanted. So we all went out to dinner. It was fine and pleasant.
One of the people I work closely with as part of the school board had his wife pass away last week after a long fight with cancer. She was only 52 and they were such a great couple. I went to the reception for her passing and that was an emotional affair. It felt so odd going without a spouse or SO. The husband knows about my separation so as I came up to him the first thing he asked was how I was doing. He's such a nice guy... his wife passes away but he's asking me how I'm doing. I barely kept it together and just said fine and turned it back to his wife and his kids.
Spent Friday with all the kids because W worked. Saturday I had my youth group with my SS (who spent the night with me Friday night). Today no kids and I did house stuff and some GAL. Received a text from my W mid-day asking if I wanted the kids for a few hours because she wasn't feeling well. I was in the middle of GAL so I didn't answer. I got home and a bit before dinner (about four hours later) I texted my W and asked if she would mind if the kids came over for a little while. I needed SS's help on a project for our youth group and I hadn't seen my SD except for the little bit on Friday. We had fun playing Star Wars Kinect and my SS helped search the web for videos of F-16s.
When she came over to pick them up she came inside and spent a little while at my house watching the kids play Kinect. I feel bad for her because she's so unhappy. She's as unhappy now as she was when we were together. Her friends aren't responsive to her. I'm guessing it's because she unloads on them as she used to unload on me (and still tries to). And it's just not cheery to listen to that over and over... and I'm sure that's doubly so when your wounds are self-inflicted (as much of her lamentation these days is about being poor).
She looks like she's aged 5 years in the past three months... Dang... I just realized today is 3 months since she moved out. Well no wonder I've been so emotional this weekend. Anyway, she just always so stressed and stretched thing. I can't do anything about it really, but it's still hard to watch someone you care about struggle. It's harder knowing you could do something about it (I could give her more money every month) but that you don't. Not that this makes me bad, but it's still hard.
Time marches on, doesn't it? It sounds like you've really mastered that little concept know as GAL. Good for you?
Have you given any thought to really going dark on your W? At least as much as you can considering the kids, etc. I mean, she sounds miserable and probably is. Do you ever think that if she really felt the separation in a more material way then she does currently that it might help to wake her up?
Anyway, just something to think about.
Take care!
Other than the kids I pretty much am dark. Of course the devil is in the details... how much I choose to be related to the kids.
On a week where it's my weekend with my son I usually don't talk to her for four or five days straight. Unless my son decides he wants to call her, stop by on a bike ride, or whatever. I used to discourage him from asking to do that, but I could see that this made him feel conflicted so I just roll with it. I did put my foot down though on spending $100 on her for mother's day as he wanted
I gave him $10 instead.
On a week where it's her weekend the contact is fairly frequent because of the kids. Volunteer stuff on Saturday with SS. Church on Sunday with S. Sometimes Friday night movies with all of them.
And then during the week the contact typically only happens if I'm spending time with the kids while she works.
Outside of that we don't talk or communicate. What I still struggle with though is this scenario... I am with the kids because she is working. At 7:30 or so I take them over to her house and put S and SD to bed. A little later SS goes to bed. About 30 minutes after that W gets home. I grab my stuff and meet her in her kitchen. I give her a rundown of kid-stuff (homework, school info, etc...) and touch base on other kid-stuff (appointments, events, etc...). It's usually in here somewhere that she begins going into her life. I redirect her back into kid-stuff, but she'll wander back into her life. Once I actually get through all the kid stuff I tell her I have to get going and I leave. In all it's probably 5-10 minutes of interaction.
That remains the biggest piece in all this. To go truly dark I would have to stop watching the kids while she works. The emotional piece of that cutoff would be dramatic, I'm quite sure. The fiscal implications would be daunting as well. It's sort of the "nuclear option" as it were.
But while she would get hit hard by that so would my relationship with SS and SD. And I understand that it could turn her around and then I would get to have my full-time R with SS and SD back. But it could also go completely the other way and I lose all contact with them. I guess right now I'm following the more risk-adverse strategy.
As far as what would help her wake up... I don't think really anything will; not right now at least. She's on this "self-discovery" journey. Call it "finding yourself", mid-life crisis, or whatever... until it's run its course I don't see her waking up. And I don't think waking up is even the right term... that infers that she's asleep and simply needs to "wake up and come to her senses."
But that's not it... she first has to figure out what she values. She doesn't even know that right now. She has to find what makes her happy. She doesn't know that either. Moving out and being independent was going to do that... it hasn't... and I believe that's a big source of her unhappiness.
But that doesn't mean being with me is a source of happiness.
Things I have noticed... when we are together she laughs at my jokes again. My dry humor is funny to her again where it wasn't before. She thanks me for things that she never did before.
Small things, but that's what it is for now I guess.
What if you left a list of those things you usually tell her? With her difficulty in remembering things, that might be best anyway and it might also preclude her going into her life problems with you.
Just a thought.
Bug, I was thinking the same thing. If there is time to list out the kid stuff before she gets home. Do it and then make a swift getaway.
I actually do... I have a list written down with the relevant details. I started doing this because I got tired of her forgetting that we had discussed x or y, and because it is a lot to get tossed at you when you get home from a 12 hour shift.
It has helped to a degree. I can hand her the list now and we go down the items together. When done I leave. It's just getting the list done each time that doesn't always happen. And sometimes the details are too extensive to reasonably put down in writing or are simply easier to convey orally. Some nights are quiet and orderly, others are crazy and busy as life with kids happens to be. Tonight will be one of those crazy, busy nights.
It's hard to explain, but here's a sample of how this goes some times (this from last week). I took S to the dentist for his first check-up. He has two small cavities and a "fused tooth". The fused tooth thing is too complicated to write out (80% of human communication is non-verbal remember). So when she gets home I tell her of the dental visit. I tell her of the cavities and that I scheduled an appointment in two weeks. Cost to each of us will be $45. And right here is where it goes off the tracks....
this is the point where she frowns and, in this case, asked if we really had to get them filled right now. That she doesn't have the money to pay her half right now. That things are so expensive, the kids eat so much, etc.... if I let her go on she'd go half an hour.
In this case I simply stood firm and said that the cavities had to be filled. I reminded her of SS's teeth and how untreated baby teeth cavities (from before we lived together) cost us thousands of dollars (which I paid when we first lived together). I understand money is tight but it's just something that has to be done. I reminded her she has a flex-spending account for just this sort of thing and that I was willing to pay the dentist and if she wanted me to wait to cash her check until that deposit arrived (usually takes 2-3 days) I would be willing to do that.
Then I left.
Part of this is also just me getting better at cutting her off. That just sounds very easy but in practice is harder than it sounds.
I just wanted to post some reflections as well as simply updates...
I find myself wondering how things would ever work if my W and I recon. I feel guilty at times for feeling this way, but in all honesty I've come to enjoy my days where I am my own person. My weekends where it's just me. My Monday and Tuesday nights where I'm only responsible for me. I can do what I want, eat what I want, get done what I want.
Don't get me wrong... I miss my kids terribly. While I love my quiet house Tuesday I still miss seeing my son first thing on Wednesday morning. And Wednesday afternoons are the best day of the week because I get to pick my son up from school. This summer I'll get to have all the kids at my house all day while I work from home and they are off from school.
But when W and I were together I was the ultimate caretaker. I took care of everything and all the time. I almost never had a moment alone. Even when I had something where kids couldn't be (like a board meeting) I was scrambling to find child care to keep my W happy. Don't ask me why I was that way... that's a whole other question.
But I LIKE this new found freedom. I LIKE not constantly being broke. I LIKE not having the sharp/aggressive/mean version of W on me for whatever aspect of her life isn't right and I am owning (this isn't that my W directed it at me... just that she would be angry at life and I would own that as my problem).
And all this makes me feel guilty at times. I realize this is what other adults have had, even with their families intact, because they act as partners. I lament what I've missed and lament what I'm missing. At the same time I don't know how we'd glue things back if it ever gets there.
How is she with email? I'm wondering if you can email her the list the next day or follow up with a phone call. Then at least she's not getting the comfort of having you at home when she gets home from a days work telling her everything and in her mind getting to talk about her problems.
Maybe you should stop the movie nights as well. I know you want to spend as much with the kids as possible but it shouldn't be joint time with her.
I'm only this because I was a WAW and everything was great when I had him to do all the stuff I wanted and got the benefits of a quasi spouse (ie he was there to talk, to give me advice, to support me emotionally, etc) and I was still free to do all the stuff I wanted.
Also if she starts going off path in the convo just say "sorry, but can I tell you this stuff because I've got something to do/have to be up early tomorrow/meeting someone." Something to say hey, I've got a life outside of being a dad.
There's no movie nights with her... those are just the kids and I. Really we don't share much time together with the kids at all. Dinner the other night was the first time since SD's birthday last April that we spent time together with the kids (other than pick up/drop off). She invited me to a school-related fun event this week with her and the kids but I had to decline due to a school board meeting.
I really LIKE that you LIKE your new found freedom. Sure, it is tough being away from our kids, I know that so well. But my WAW was a bitch to live with for the last few months, all sneering, rolled eyes and superior attitude. I don't miss that at all, really LIKE not having to deal with it. Since we have stopped MC, I LIKE not having the knife twisted in my gut every other week. You should not feel guilty.
Your worry on how to put it back together again, cross that bridge if and when you come to it. In my situation I can certainly see difficulties, but if my W decides to come back for the right reasons, we can overcome the raw spots and dance again.
Thanks UK... curious, has your W filed any papers?
Did you read this thread?
Stages of the LBS
WHG, I spent some time reading your thread.. I'm sorry for your sitch! We have something very similar in that we have step children involved. Even though we are going through something that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, you are very lucky you are still in contact with you children. My wife doesn't want me to see our daughter. She and I have a very special bond, have had it from the first day I met her. Even though she is not mine biologically, there has never been a day that I have felt that she isn't mine! I would sell my soul to know that I will have a role in my D's life in the future.
I truly feel that wife feels so gulity about what she has done to me, that she doesn't want anything else to make her feel worse. It has been almost three weeks since i have seen D! When I have gotten the chance in last couple months, D clings to me more and more. I think this makes my wife worse about our whole situation.
I think piecing is hard. I know that once I made peace inside with myself about his impending move out, I started thinking to myself, that at least I will not have to deal with his insanity anymore. I won't have to take the shark eyes, the emotional distancing, and the coldness. Making the decision that I was going forward without him is what gave me a sense of strength and although the thought of being single again terrified me, I just wanted an end to his emotional abuse and the hell I was going through.
I didn't know how we were going to glue things back together either, but it's happening by the grace of God, learning to communicate again, and an excellent counselor. We do hit bumps, we are not perfect, and we are dealing with a lot of feelings.
I can tell you that when he decided to stay it produced a different type of anxiety in me, and a fear of not wanting to go through that hell again. I really had to dig deep inside and decide for myself if I wanted to stay with him and go through this. Because this is huge for me too. He turned our lives upside down.... nothing will be the same between us. No matter how much counseling we have. There will always be that memory of last summer, but we can overcome it by becoming closer and working on the M.
The thing that comes into focus once the WAS wants to stay and work through it, is...... what caused this break down in the first place and addressed, and things have to change. The positive changes you make, you want to keep.
Then there are new boundaries and understandings that take place. It's bit by bit. But I know that we are healing.
WHG, I still think you are way too accessible to your w, for her to even have time to ponder her life. Although things are stressful for her, she still has you as her cushion.
Maybe it's time for a babysitter to come into play here for a few nights of the week. Or, change up how the week nights (school nights) are dealt with. Such as, you keep the kids with you, rather than going into her home all of the time, then you take them to school in the morning and she pick them up.
You being in her home all of the time, does not sound healthy to me, but that's just my opinion. There needs to be a spatial boundary that still does not exist.
CT... I know, I can't find a good answer the meets all the goals I'd like to meet unfortunately. I've thought through all the options and weighed them over and over. There are pros and cons in each direction.
I've considered having the kids stay here. But that makes three houses they stay at during the week. That's no life for a ten year old.
I've considered cutting ties and going the babysitter route. But I only have them one, maybe two night a week now. A babysitter makes that zero. Then I won't see SS and SD except for once or twice a month if I'm lucky. Or the only times I will get to see them is when W wants "relief" from having them all... that's worse than it is now where I see them on my own terms. I am not willing to do that.
It's not that I'm not aware that the current arrangement makes me too accessible. I just don't see another option where I can live with myself. Can I just cut her off? Walk away? Sure. But then I walk away from two kids who I love. So it's a deadman's gambit.
I realize I am choosing accessibility and access to SS and SD over going completely dark. I recognize it's probably "bad DBing". But my W has already sacrificed the wellness and relationships of the kids for her own needs. I'm not willing to offer them up as sacrifices too. If it means I hurt more, hurt longer, or don't heal as fast... that's a conscious choice I'm making for the sake of having an R with them. If it means W and I don't get back together, that's something I have to live with too. Since there are not guarantees in this I then can only control my own actions. I can control whether I see and spend time with SS and SD.
There isn't a day that goes by that I don't wonder if I'm screwing all this up by keeping contact like this. And there isn't a day I wonder if I just walked away what the hole in my chest would be like, because I already know how big it is when I have to say goodbye to my SD and say things like "see you in a week young lady".
W texted me this morning that SS is failing Language. She missed an email from his teacher two weeks ago. She doesn't know what to do or how to handle it. I asked a simple question, "when are you meeting with his teacher". The reply? She hadn't thought of that. I left her to her devices to figure out how to solve this. I don't really have that role since I'm the part-part-part time dad. She texted me later wondering if I could walk S to school if she dropped him off so that she could meet with SS's teacher this morning before she went to work. Originally she asked if I could meet with SS's teacher because she had to go to work. I told her that she needs to.. I'm not in a role where that's appropriate anymore. She complained that she might be late for work. Yes, you might be.
I did ask her once she figured it out to let me know if I can help SS and if there are consequences what they are so I can implement them too. When she called me to update me she lamented that she just doesn't understand how this can happen. He was getting good grades first half of the school year and now he just stops doing homework and stops trying. Yeah... I just can't figure out what's so different... and where or where did he learn to just give up on things? Obviously I didn't say those things.. there's no point, but I guess she thought this was all going to go so smoothly. Kids have a funny way of putting bumps in the road.
Hmm.. I did just realize that this summer should allow me a little more flexibility. I'll still have the kids at my place on nights my W works. However, there won't be school the next morning like there is now. This means she can stop by and pick them up on her way home. Staying up late during the summer is part of summer anyway and it give me more time with them (being with them while they sleep is sort of a buzzkill
.
And on Wednesdays I'm going to be spending the day with them which I'm looking forward to. So if it's a Tuesday night they could even spend the night here.
At least that's a little better.
I had an unusual interaction with my W today. It's my weekend. I picked my S up and we went to Wal-Mart to get a few things. We're in the store looking at things and my phone rings, I answer it. It's my W. I had been expecting an out of state call so I didn't even look assuming it was this other person.
She asks where S and I are at. I just tell her we're out. She says she knows, we're at Wal-Mart, just where in the store are we. Well, we're in gardening. She says "see you in a minute". And sure enough there she is a few seconds later.
I just don't get her. S was happy though. He had asked to stop by her house as he missed her (day 3 of a 5 day stretch away from her) and I vetoed that. So he was thrilled she was there. I felt mixed.
Then she tells me she had spent the afternoon rummage saleing with her mom and stepdad. Suddenly S says, "gee, that sounds horrible" in his little facetious voice, as he knows W doesn't like spending time with her mom. The voice, timing, and mannerisms were extremely funny so we both tried hard not to laugh and shared that look that parents share when you're kid does/says something that's not wholly appropriate, but is also true and hilarious.
So then she shopped with us for a short bit. Finally I just asked her what she wanted. She said she saw my van and thought she could stop and say hi. I finally asked her if she wanted to shop with S since he missed her and I went off to get a few other things. I picked him back up again and we checked out.
When I got out to my van I realized she had parked right next to me, and I was not in a place where you want to park. She had to consciously choose to park all the way out there.
I don't understand her.
Had a mixed weekend. Had S all weekend which was great. We had a lot of fun. Bought him a new inflatable water slide thing and that was money well spent
The mixed part is that my S is speaking of the break-up more. I'm not sure if it's the transition of summer, end of kindergarten or what but he mentions it at least every other day now. This weekend it was once or twice each day. I can see it hurts him. That it confuses him and his little mind is struggling to understand it. I hate to see him hurt. At one point this weekend he asked if mommy would go with daddy to a dance. When I said that wouldn't happen he fell apart because we must not love each other. So again we walked through the love of friends, that mommy and daddy are doing the best we can, and that this will take time. But that we both still love him tremendously. And it was just a theoretical dance...
Ended up with S an extra night last night. W forgot to put her spare house key back in its spot so I couldn't get into her house to put S to bed. She asked if I wanted her to get S after work or just have him sleep here. I opted to keep him another night as I didn't want him up until 10pm on a school night.
I've been waiting for the inevitable pushback from W's impromptu shopping escapade with us on Friday. I'm sort of surprised nothing so far. Received a number of emails from her this weekend about her work schedule and some money items we're working out. Each time I opened an email I braced myself for a pushback but nothing.
Then today she called and I let it go to voice mail. She wanted to know when I was picking SS up. SS and I have a deal that he can mow my lawn and I'll pay him $10. Anyway, I called her back and as we talked I told her to let me know when they were done with supper and I'd come over so I didn't interrupt their dinner. Then she invites me over to eat dinner with them. I told her I was working late but I'd see, but not to count on me. I ended up deciding not to go.
I picked SS up and we worked on the lawn together. Then ran to the store together. Got back home and let SS pay a little XBox while we talked and caught up. Then got a text from W asking if I was home. Said I was and a few minutes later there she is with S. They had walked to a park nearby and thought they'd stop by. Ok... gave me a chance to give S the outfit I bought him for his Kindergarten ceremony tomorrow. Then I gave them all a lift back to her house as I was heading out of town from some GAL.
So she continues to baffle me. Her tone is much nicer than ever. She emailed me this morning apologizing profusely that she missed my reply to a schedule email yesterday. Seriously... I didn't care.
One awkward moment tonight came when she was at my house. She was trying to remember one of my S's classmates names. I told her the class list was on the bulletin board. She looked and came back pissed off. Apparently I'm the only parent listed. Mind you the class list was printed back in August. She starts going off about how dare they not list her.. just because we're apart doesn't mean she shouldn't be on there... I point out the list was printed in August. I remind her there was a glitch in the district database where we had two records (one for her, one for me... prophetic I guess). That S was tied to my record until I got that resolved in September. No dice... wasn't placating her at all.
I could feel all the old feelings racing back. Feeling like I was failing. Feeling like I was letting her down because she was mad, even though her anger wasn't rational or justified.
But this time I was able to snap myself out of it. I realized she's pissed. Ok. I can't make her un-pissed. I tried to offer her new information, she didn't want to internalize it. That's all I can do. So I just turned to my S and had him try on his new outfit.
my advice would be to NOT go to these dinner things...stop her from stopping by randomly...don't stop by there randomly...
you are not together anymore
she is allowed to act as if you are
this pulls you back into feeling as if you are
and
it holds you both back from doing the work on yourselves you need to do
WHG- My w has been re-engaging w/ me and our kids more as well, stopping by more, inviting me to do things w/ them, etc..
It is confusing because we haven't had a r talk in months and I don't know where her mind is.
Part of me thinks her anger towards me has dissipated and she would just like to be friends (she has stated this a few times) which at the end of the day may be what's best for all of us.
I see Figgeroni's post and it makes sense on many levels but I also feel somewhat like our marriage was based on friendship (was yours?) and if my w is making a genuine attempt to improve that it doesn't feel right to shut that down.
The trouble is to not let them pull us back in and then have us expecting something more.
I have been struggling w/ this for a few weeks but just wanted you to know someone else is dealing w/ some similar dynamics.
Best to u and the fam!
Yes Say... that's very much what it feels like. Like the anger has dissipated. That she is trying to re-engage. I just don't know what the end game/goal is. I don't know that she knows either.
We've always stated from the start that we want to be civil. Maybe friends some day. That's where we started. Her actions now are unlike her actions in the past. I don't know the motivation so I can't assign a value. All I can do is observe they are different.
She posted a photo on Facebook yesterday of our S blowing bubbles and tagged me in it so I would see it. I know... that seems so minor. It's the first time though in seven months she's acknowledged I existed on FB. This after scrubbing every piece of my existence from her FB page.
This morning I was walking to my S's school for the ceremony marking his passage to first grade. W was going to be there too. As I walked down the street she pulls up behind me and offers me a ride. Again, so very minor but lightyears from where things were.
Then she asked if it was okay to sit with me during the ceremony. I said yes because... well, what else would I say? No? Go sit by yourself? I guess I could but that seems petty and weird. And it made S happy to have us there, together, to celebrate his achievement. Midway through the ceremony (it was 90 minutes long as they celebrated multiple grades) she asked if I wanted to go get some coffee and we could come back near the end for the social function (as it was really chilly outside at the ceremony). I told her that I'd rather wait and watch the ceremony. Right after that S came looking for us and sat with us.
Ceremony got done and she gave me a ride back home. We talked a bit and I used it as a chance to discuss how S has been feeling. That he says he doesn't like sharing his feelings about the D with my W because, "when I do she just starts talking really fast and then she does something to cheer me up." Which I'm sure is exactly what happens since my W talks fast when she's nervous and she hates seeing the kids, especially the youngest, in pain.
So yes... it's a struggle. To Figg's point... I don't stop by her place without a purpose that is kid related and I always clear it first. If I have something to give her/drop off I do it when she's not there.
It's her dropping in on me that I struggle with. It's a very new behavior. Now three times in a week... prior to that she hadn't just "dropped in". She at least gave me notice. I don't know if I sit down with her and say that I don't appreciate the drop-ins. Problem is she does them with S in tow or when I'm with S. Sort of like a safety buffer... she knows I won't say no to seeing my S. I'm not sure if I want to say no to that.
And then part of me knows she is very nervous about the summer. Money is tight. Kids are home more which means more expense. She's starting her Masters program on-line this summer. Part of me wonders if this "thaw" (of sorts) is her trying to keep a lifeline open in case things go crazy or whatnot.
And now I'm just downright confused.
She popped in again this afternoon... I asked if I could pick SS and SD up from school so I could take them out for treats to celebrate the end of the school year since I have to work tomorrow. W was more than happy... she said it would allow her to nap. Well, that wasn't what I was going for, but whatever, it's a by-product of me spending time with the kids. Such is life.
Anyway, kids and I have a good time. I hadn't seen SD in a week so I was really happy. Their dad picked them up and S and I were looking at photos of his ceremony when there's a knock on the door. I send my S to answer the door and I hear, "mommy!". WTF?
And sure enough, it's her. She comes in and I ask what's up. Says she couldn't nap and all her friends are busy so she wanted to stop by. So this is already strange... no pretense this time. Then she reaches in her pocket and hands me a key to her house. I must have looked puzzled. She explains that this way I don't have to worry about being locked out anymore if she forgets to put the spare key back.
I told her that S and I were just about to take the dog for a walk (which wasn't untrue) and so while I got stuff together for that she talked and then left as we left.
The key thing though still has me baffled. I mean it's not like... "here's my key, wink, wink" or anything of that sort. When she first moved I remember thinking I should ask for a key to prevent lockouts, but then thought better of it. It seemed not right. That ultimately if I couldn't get in with the kids we'd figure something out. That at that time she didn't trust me much. If she wanted me to have a key she'd give one to me. If she didn't, she wouldn't. After all she told me where the spare key is, but somehow having a key is a whole other thing.
Again... I can't say I see this as a positive... nor a negative. I don't know what to think of it, but it does baffle me. Mostly this is logistics. After she left part me of wondered if I should have even taken it... even now part of me wonders that.
I continue to be baffled by her.
since it is the summer, I would assume you wouldn't need to be bringing the kids to her house to sleep.
if this is how you want your relationship with her to be (convenient babysitter) then keep putting yourself in that position
Actually I wasn't planning on it. That's why the key thing confused me. I won't actually have a need for it over the summer. Though I suppose it's possible on a day I have the kids they'll want something from there and if they don't have their key they're SOL. But somehow they'll survive.
I don't get the "convenient babysitter" comment. This is the deal we struck. I watch them when she works. Yesterday I guess I was the babysitter and it was convenient for her. But not because she asked or expected.
Yes, the other option was to not take them... then go two weeks without seeing my stepdaughter. You're right in that case, it is a choice. The same choice from the start. Put the kids first or put me first.
You don't have to like it. I don't really like it much either. I just like the alternate even less.
I admire you for putting the kids 1st but as Gabby's mom says...you are like her permanent plan B...when her friends are busy or she is lonely or doesn't want to sit or do something alone, you are the one she turns to
if you are Ok with that, and want nothing more, then that is great
if you are looking for something more, you will need to change up the pattern
if that means that you say you are waiting for someone else to sit by (even if you aren't) or you make a beeline for the bathroom when you see her walking toward you or whatever, that's what you do
it might mean you have to be blunt and really brush her off
or
if you are Ok with being plan B then keep it the way it is
I am just not sure it sounds like you even want more, which is why I am asking
I remember a few years ago going to a Jack Johnson concert with my best friend. Her husband walked out on her after putting her through his MLC hell for two years. Once he was gone, she caught on to what GAL really meant for her. That meant, cutting him off and going dark and refusing to respond unless it was about the child they shared. Anyway, back to the concert...
I remember her telling me about how she was always in the corner he wanted her in. Always doing what he asked, always there, always reliable. But when he left for good, it finally struck her... that she was free to explore her life again. As we sat there at the concert..... he texted her at least 10 times, and called and left voice mails.
I was talking to her again the other day and she was telling me about how she got him back, and it meant "blacking him out" as she put it. She found someone to transport their child back and forth for visits, and told him not to come to her home no more as it made her feel uncomfortable.
When she took these steps, he turned really angry because she was no longer in that corner. They had a business together, and when he went into crisis he booted her out and told her to stay out of their office. When he left, he begged her to do the book keeping again. She did for awhile, then completely stopped.
Her husband never saw her as an individual with needs of her own. He saw her as someone who existed for him.
I guess what I'm saying is, because WHG I thought about you as I listened to her talk, that maybe it is time to find someone who can either transport the children to and from your home, and stop going to her home. Stand up to her and tell her that you don't want to talk anymore unless it's for the kids and that dinners make you uncomfortable.
She does not feel you gone from her life. You are wearing the chain and she's jerking it whenever she needs you. It's not fair. She just walked out on you and when she's bored, she comes by to hang out?
She does not see you as having a life, a separate entity, a man who has his needs. You are there to fulfill her needs and take care of her, but it's OK for her to go out and do as she pleases.
You are a man who has a life too, who has needs too. She must see you as someone who just exists to help her and bail her out.
^^^Some great things in here to think about, WHG. Nicely said, Ctflor.
I'll admit that I am torn. I realize I am her Plan B. I don't what I want long-term, other than I really want my family back. I appreciate the advice though the practicality of it doesn't work. Who is going to transport kids at 9:30 at night between houses that are 8 blocks apart. While I understand the distance piece there's a point where all of this just becomes sublime and ridiculous.
And it feels selfish; no it is selfish. Not towards my STBX, but towards my SS and SD. When given a chance to spend an extra afternoon with them I can take it or leave. Most of the time I take it. But not to make her life better or easier, but because that's what I told them I would do. I told them I would make a hard effort to remain a part of their life. I can go dark. I can get my one evening a week for a few hours. But I can't stay true to my word to them when I choose that. And they know. They know if their aunt comes over that it means I chose to not have them come over. Did I have a good reason? Sure. Is just having my own life free of those encumbrances a good enough reason? I don't know. I really, really don't know. But in the end even if I had a good reason does it matter to a kid? No.
This would be so much easier had I just said to them, sorry... mom opted for this so guess this is it. See you when I see you. But that's not the path I chose. And even now it's not the path I want.
And I'm just so very tired. There isn't a good answer. I don't believe there is a way to maintain a connection to them and be dark, or as dark as I need to be. It's all I can right now to not grab my phone and text her or call her to tell my STBX how much a I hate her for this. I know it's a choice I made. I know it's a choice I can undo. But I can't live with myself if I write them off.
I guess that's where it comes down to. I can't live with myself if I write them off. I can live with myself, at least right now, as a Plan B. I can create boundaries of sorts, but ultimately my access to them relies on her. And I have no legal standing to enforce anything else so it is what it is. I have to decide whether the manipulation (or whatever you want to call it) is too much to accept and then deal with the fallout of how I feel when I choose that four hours a week is what I'm willing to have.
Today is an example. We were supposed to meet at 5:30 tonight to finish settling the June child care schedule. She sends me a text at 4:00 that she wants to take a nap. Offers that I can come over early if I want to spend time with the kids. What she really wants is me there to entertain the kids so they don't disturb her nap. I really wanted to go. Not so she could nap, but so I could see the kids. But I'd just spent the last day and half with SS as we were at youth group events together. So I told her no, I'd be there around when we agreed as I was busy.
Pretty sad tonight... shouldn't be, but whatever. Weekend was good. SS and I volunteered at an air show together and then our youth group had an all-night lock in. Got to spend 28 straight hours with SS, plus he had a really great time at the air show and the overnight event.
Met with STBX today to finalize June child care schedule. She mentioned that she has the money together to file and will be filing on Wednesday. And this wasn't the "pushback" messages she usually sends, just business. And I knew it was coming... I know it changes nothing. It's just the legal expression of what already is. But it still hurts. Have had two big breakdowns tonight. Miss my SS and SD so much.
And yet S tells me that on Saturday mom took him and SD to our favorite do-it-yourself pottery studio so they could make me some pieces for Father's Day.
This goes back to the part where I get confused. But I'll accept it as a nice token that she still appreciates me as a father. Nothing more.
Who is going to transport kids at 9:30 at night between houses that are 8 blocks apart.
But that is actually her problem. She chose the separation, you didn't. She is the primary custodian of the children, and is responsible for their transport to your home. The schedule is her problem. She chose to disrupt her children's lives. She should be paying for a sitter to be home with the children each night so that their lives are not so back and forth and disruptive. I honestly cannot see how it is healthy for them to be back and forth so much, and I don't think it's healthy for your well being to be inside of her home all of the time. JMHO.
But I can't live with myself if I write them off.
You don't have to write your children off. Why are you walking on egg shells with her in order to see the children? You have done nothing wrong. If she blows up because you decide to move forward with your life and tries to take visits away, then that is on her. Why not propose a weekend schedule with her, where you get the children one weekend, and the step father the next. During the week, a sitter is employed for the purpose of stability for the kids? And you get to move forward with your life.
I can live with myself, at least right now, as a Plan B.
And that is how she will always treat you WHG. She will not respect you, but only see you as plan b. Being just plan b does not sound like someone who is attractive.
She positions the visits in such a way that she is doing you a favor, but she actually just wants someone to rescue her. She wants a nap.....? tell her to call a sitter. You're going to the gym. She's bored and has no one to talk to cause her buddies are not around, so you are second choice? Oops.... I gotta run..... I got a date tonight with some friends.
Being plan b sounds like a miserable existence WHG. You are not a plan B, you are more than that.
eventually your plan b will also become cumbersome to her because she will begin dating a plan a
and then you will be gone from their lives
what is your relationship like with their dad? Can you arrange for some time with him?
look into getting to see them some other ways other than through her because she is only using you while it is convenient for her