Today I just don't feel like talking, texting or emailing the W. She has called a couple of times and I have note taken the calls (first time I have done this). Figured if it was urgent she would leave a voice mail. Am I wrong for feeling this way?
No you're not wrong. In fact, you shouldn't be thinking about it.
Today I avoided contact with W for the first time since we have been together.
Kids and I were playing wiffle ball in the back yard, while W was picking up the house. She then sat on the deck while we played.
She is very anxious about our upcoming trip and had been hounding me to get all the reservations secured. I guess that is a good thing right? I have no expectations regarding the vacation, but it did make me happy to see her very interested in the family trip.
When we are at home together we appear to be having a good time as a family. I don't feel the stress in the house that was previously there. Nothing has changed on the R front. It has not been brought up and I am not going to bring it to the table. I am trying to take things one day at a time.
You sound like you are doing much better. Nothing wrong with not talking to your W at all. You are essentially giving her space in fact you are not alone I have not spoken to my W at all today. The best thing you can do is to detach from her.
Leo,
Thank you for your kind words. This is hard to do under the same roof, but I think it is much better than if we were living separately.
SIW
Wondering if someone can offer their opinion on my sitch. I would like me and my W to reconcile. I realized that I should expect nothing and hope for the worst. I am in the ultimate marathon and the end is no where in sight.
MY relationship with the kids is getting better, they now are actively seeking me out when they come home. Both have been behaving so much better as of late.
My relationship with my W is different. Two weeks ago she was not talking to me and now she appears to be opening up. She no longer is distant after work. I am considering this a baby step. No affection between us and it is not expected by me.
Neither one of us have brought up the R or M. I am assuming that W still intends on going forward with D. I tell myself that since I have no control over that it does not pay to worry about it.
I am changing into the husband/father that only a fool would leave. I just get so anxious/nervous that I wish she would give me a sign either way. I no such expectation is counter intuitve.
She laid out a road map of what we were lacking and I have incorporated her concerns into some of my 180's. Guess I am just using this as a sounding board. Thanks for reading.
Sad,
I've been encouraged to check out your sitch, and see if I can help. But you've posted a LOT, and I don't have time to catch up on all of it. Can you give us a "Reader's Digest" synopsis version of what you've done so far?
Starsky
Starsky,
I have been doing the following 180's:
1) Work stays in the car until the family is asleep;
2) Work problems stay at work, not to be taken out on the kids and W;
3) More active with the kids in taking care of them (i.e. getting them ready and taking them to school, entertaining them when I get home; and helping coordinate their activities);
4) More open with the family's finances and withold judgment of my W if there is a problem; and
5) Listening more to the people around me including my W.
My W has demanded space and I have been giving her this - not calling and allowing her to initate contact.
On my GAL's
1) I am back to working out daily;
2) Joined a mens hockey league; and
3) Doing more things with the kids than I have before.
I am a workaholic so there is not much free time per se.
Been a few days since I have posted here. Had another awesome weekend with my family.
On Friday W told me my mom had sent her a letter. This was unbeknownst to me. Told W that you saw that you updated your f/b status as separated. Like I have no control over W I don't have any control over the W. W had a few glasses of wine and I fought off her advances three times, but gave in. I had no expectations that this would change things or make it better. Nothing was said in the morning.
W and D6 met her friend for a St Patrick's Day Parade. Me and S10 ran errands and picked up a few things for our upcoming trip, new family camera and another I-Pad. Money has been a hot button issue for us in the past. W was concerned about the stuff we bought. I told her that we were taking a family trip and that we bought these things for the family.
W's sister dropped our niece and we had a nice cookout and took a walk for ice cream. W and I then sat and watched the NCAA tournament.
On Sunday took the family and W's Sister and Niece to the Zoo. Before we left, W asked "What if the trip doesn't work?" Caught me off guard, told her I was living my life day by day. Wanted to say you first have to decide if you want to work on our M. She advised that she is always expecting the worse. I then said lets have a good time with the family.
We then went to the Zoo and then went out to eat. When we got home W, SIL and I then sat in the backyard and talked for 3 hours. I would never have done this before so I was happy that SIL was opening up to me. We are even talking on the phone.
When SIL left we had a nice night with the kids. We are now talking with each other more than we have been in years.
W was in good spirits this morning and even initated playful contact with me.
After reading the working on your marriage without talking about it I have been trying to apply some of these things with my W. I know that I am putting the cart before the horse, but I really liked some of the stuff in the book. It made a lot of sense to me. I am now reading the 5LL.
5LL's is great, required reading, but trying to apply it now will come across as pursuing. Read it, internalize it, but measure how you apply it at this point.
WRT moving out, in my state I spoke to a lawyer who strongly cautioned against it. He said that W's L can spin that into an abandonment claim and you will have issues if things go to court. As others have said, let W move out first. My sister got divorced and her H stayed in the house until the bitter end. He used that as leverage during the divorce proceedings -- i.e. "if you want me out earlier, then you need to compromise on X and Y."
Finally, it's obvious you're having a hard time giving space -- everyone has that problem. One thing I read that was helpful is that you have 2 options:
1) Hope the situation will get better
2) Assume things will never get better and act on that basis
It said that #1 is based on "hope" -- when you have hope, you have expectations. When those expectations are not met, it will lead you to be frustrated and/or get angry. That frustration and anger will cause you to react and act in a less than ideal way. The expectations are constantly refreshed when you're holding onto that hope. i.e. "I asked W to text me if she will be staying away over night". You have an expectation (and a hope) that she will text you. When she does not text you, you get frustrated and angry. The unfortunate thing is that this path can lead to perpetual pain, as you cling to the hope that things will improve, you are disappointed every day that they do not.
It said that the power of going with #2 is that you're able to escape from your expectations and can start to detach. If you assume that W will never treat you any better than she is treating you now, then you won't have expectations for anything better that W then won't fulfill. It said to expect this path to be very painful -- you will mourn your lost expectations. On the other hand, it's a journey with an end. You go through intense pain and come out the other side detached and ready to move on with a more realistic view of your situation.
I know this sounds very depressing, like hope is a bad thing, but it also seems to be pragmatic advice in terms of getting to a place where you can *truly* give space.
It is your expectations that are your worst enemy right now -- expectations that you have the power to turn things around quickly, expectations that doing something nice for W should result in W being nice to you, expectations that showing progress with 180's should cause W to change her mind, expectations that having a better relationship with SIL should influence W to want to work on the M, etc etc etc.
While W is a WAW, those expectations are perpetually unmet and it creates day to day pain and angst for you. If you can drop those expectations, you'll be in a much better place to weather the storm. Assume that W will do nothing to work on or repair the relationship. Assume that W will not be influenced by your actions, your family, or her family. Operate from that assumption and you may find peace sooner than you would otherwise.
Accuray
Today was the first ime that I shot down the W. told her that I did not want to have sex if it did not mean anything. Told her that I was serious about setting this boundary (no sex while we are limbo.)
Told her she has a killer body, but wanted more from her than this. Said I enjoyed hanging out with her. She was mad but I would rather have this than breaking a promise.
She was mad, but she will respect you for maintaining your boundary, that will make her feel safe with you because you can be relied upon to do what you say.
Accuray
This morning was great. No negative energy from the W and I feel much better about my decision.
It said that the power of going with #2 is that you're able to escape from your expectations and can start to detach. If you assume that W will never treat you any better than she is treating you now, then you won't have expectations for anything better that W then won't fulfill. It said to expect this path to be very painful -- you will mourn your lost expectations. On the other hand, it's a journey with an end. You go through intense pain and come out the other side detached and ready to move on with a more realistic view of your situation.
I know this sounds very depressing, like hope is a bad thing, but it also seems to be pragmatic advice in terms of getting to a place where you can *truly* give space.
It is your expectations that are your worst enemy right now -- expectations that you have the power to turn things around quickly, expectations that doing something nice for W should result in W being nice to you, expectations that showing progress with 180's should cause W to change her mind, expectations that having a better relationship with SIL should influence W to want to work on the M, etc etc etc.
While W is a WAW, those expectations are perpetually unmet and it creates day to day pain and angst for you. If you can drop those expectations, you'll be in a much better place to weather the storm. Assume that W will do nothing to work on or repair the relationship. Assume that W will not be influenced by your actions, your family, or her family. Operate from that assumption and you may find peace sooner than you would otherwise.
Very important to remember, and difficult to apply. But when you do, the rewards are not just peace and detachment, but true growth. When you are not mired in expectations, when you are not constantly evaluating what your WAS has said or done, you begin to truly look within. You begin to understand your role in the m's demise and your role within your own life. You begin to value yourself. Yes, there is pain. The pain of letting go can be intense, but it is also cleansing. I can't tell you how much I feel I have grown in just a few short months of attempting to focus on myself and create distance between myself and my sitch. I am just a beginner, but the payoff is already worth it.
She was mad, but she will respect you for maintaining your boundary, that will make her feel safe with you because you can be relied upon to do what you say.
Totally agree. When you value yourself and take your own boundaries seriously, so will others. Good job.
Mimi
Man, I did some back tracking with myself today slipping into old habits. Was snooping at her e-mail and found an e-mail for a condo to rent. I freaked out internally. Snooping does nothing.
I am telling myself to expect the worse with my W. She told me she wanted space and for the most part I think that I give that to her, I don't call, text or e-mail. When we are home I will not attempt to prolong the conversation or take it to areas where I shouldn't. As a fixer I am having a hard time not trying to make things better or get answers from my W. I want her to say, "it does not matter what you do I am dead set on leaving." If I knew that detaching would not be a choice, I would have to do it.
Whether things or good or bad I never had control of the M as much as I thought I did.
W has praised some of my actions as of late, but is unwilling to discuss our R. On a positive note I suppose that every good day we have is a step in the right direction. Ususally in three weeks time in the past the talk of leaving etc would have subsided.
To date it has not. I know that I am making changes to make me a better me and that I have no control what my W decides to do. In the same house it is hard to totally detach from her, the best I have been able to do is hide my emotions and have a big smile on my face regardless of how I really feel.
She asked me yesterday how I could love someone as crazy as her. I simply told her that I loved her in good and in bad times which is how I feel. I wanted to say that I love her unconditionnaly but ultimately my actions will speak louder than words.
I realize that three weeks in is nothing compared to others in my sitch.
W is leaning on me for the kids and stuff around the house which makes me happy. I know that in terms of the R it means nothing, but prior to the bomb being dropped she was doing it all herself. I will stop rambling.
Keep rambling! Get it all out, it helps.
Know too that a chemical reaction is happening in your brain that is making you feel this way.
When W pulls away, you feel out of control. Feeling out of control is very closely tied to feeling "in love". When you're dating, you feel some degree of out of control because you're putting yourself on the line and don't know how the other person will react. That's what makes you feel so much passion. You're getting that same chemical release now, so it's making you feel more "in love" than you have in a long time because your control has been lost.
You can combat that by doing other things that make you feel in control. Exercise, lose weight, play an instrument, do something where you can chart progress and see improvement. When you see how you can control your own destiny, it will offset some of your chemical reaction.
Keep posting, find someone to talk to who is not your W. Let it all out, work through it, but keep to the path. Detach detach detach.
Accuray
Thanks for the kind words Accuray & Mimivac. Out of control is right, it is taking every fabric of my being to not talk to my W and simply ask her if she is proceeding with the D and if she intends to move out.
The other night my wife told me she was "F**cked Up" and that I was crazy for wanting to be with her. I simply listened and stated that M like anything has its ups and downs. Left it at that. She knows that I love her so it would do no good for me to tell her that.
Part of me is waiting for the other proverbial foot to drop. It feels hopeless and that her mind is made up already.
Then I tell myself that I need to press forward with my 180's and my GAL (currently riding a stationary bike as I write this).
My relationship with the kids is stronger than it has ever been so that is something I can be proud of.
She asked me yesterday how I could love someone as crazy as her. I simply told her that I loved her in good and in bad times which is how I feel. I wanted to say that I love her unconditionnaly but ultimately my actions will speak louder than words.
Sad, (hey, you gotta change that username, dude -- pick something stronger!)
Next time she says something like this, try saying "Yes, this has been difficult on all of us." Something non-committal; neutral. Your response was a bit pursuing. WE hear ourselves saying "I still love you!", but in their current state, THEY hear us saying "I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU, OR CONSIDERING YOUR CURRENT FEELINGS. I STILL LOVE YOU, DAMMIT, AND YOU NEED TO LOVE ME, TOO!"
LOVE is unconditional.
RELATIONSHIPS -- especially married relationships -- are very much conditional, and there's nothing that says we have to (or even should) respond to a spouse's unfaithfulness or walk-away'dness with our unconditional love, trust and support.
Our spouses begin to value us when we learn to better value ourselves -- and no sooner.
Starsky
W wanted to discuss our M on Wednesday Night. She told me that for the last 3 weeks I have been acting like the H she has always wanted, but ultimately beleives that this will pass.
Told her that the only thing I can do is take it day by day and that I have been enjoying the increased time with the kids. Did not try to extend the conversation or bring up other things.
I then left it at that.
Excellent, Sad! (hate that name, maybe you should think about changing it)
I see someone else suggested the name change idea. It does conjure up this weak, droopy dog kind of guy.
Is that who you want to be?
It won't let me edit my name out, just everything else.
I think you might need to contact the mods. Others, DG I think is one, have changed their names.
Hello everyone hope you are having a nice Friday! I need to run the following past you guys:
W took the day off to watch D6 and S10 since they did not have school. W said she would take the kids this morning so that I could get to work early.
She then facetimed me this morning to tell me good morning and we talked. She called a few more times and I offered to bring home dinner since she was home with the kids and were stuck in the house since the weather was lousy.
D6 was getting on my W's nerves when I got home, but I was getting out for family and said nothing of it. She then brought up our R - she likes how things are, but thinks it is a temporary thing. As I said before I said that I am sorry you feel that way, but I am taking it day by day and cherish the time I am spending with the family. She kept pressing her point, but I just listened.
She also told me that she wanted me to tell her that I have been enjoying spending time with her. She told me she needs to hear these things as she thinks things would be better if I told her how I fealt.
What do I do? I have treaded lightly when she brings up the R talk. I tell myself I am trying to be best dad I can be and that I would never want our R/M to be like it used to be. I telll her that I am taking things day by day.
I know with DB there is the fine line with pursuing etc. I know I am making progress with the kids, but not sure how I should approach the W.
Do I send her an e-mail telling her that I have been enjoying the time we have spent together as a family and that I am enjoying her company? You would think that it would not have to be said, but she told me she is a women and needs to hear these things. Doesn't this go against the 37 rules? Here is a draft of an email I would send to her:
Dear W,
I have enjoyed the family time with you and the kids. I really enjoyed the conversations you and I have had lately. (I am at a loss for words to say what else).
SIW
Do I stay on track with the 37 rules or bend alittle bit?
sounds like a positive interaction there to me,happy for you. Ill leave the advice to the vets.
WI,
I would say to her (no e-mail, do this face-to-face):
"Look, sure, I've been enjoying some of the time we've been spending together, but let's be real here: less than a month ago, you basically 'fired' me as your husband, and just wanted to be friends. I'm not sure how I feel about you right now, and I think it would be best for both of us to take these things slow. Nothing needs to be decided today, right?"
She's looking for you to make her feel good about HER choice to break up your marriage, even though that's not what you wanted. I'm sorry, but that's not your job.
Be LOVING about this, tho -- not a dikk or anything. It sounds like you both genuinely HAVE enjoyed spending time with her, and ARE confused about things . . . right? If so, then my suggested "script" would be genuine.
When in doubt, I'm a big "speak the truth, in love" guy.
Starsky
Oh, and I also wouldn't seek her out to have this conversation today, or even tomorrow or the next day. Maybe a week from now, when she makes a similar comment or something.
Otherwise, it just reeks of "hoop-jumping." She gives' ol Sad an "assignment" to do, and he follows up dutifully, like a puppy dog.
Not attractive.
Contrary to rumor, ol' Starsky's not as big a fan of puppy dogs as you might think.
Starsky
Starsky,
Held off on sending the email. R came up and told her that I enjoyed the time together with her and the kids. W met a friend and they went to get their hair done. Had the kids and we went bumming around. W called when she was coming home and was in a very good mood.
She looked very good and was not afraid to tell her so. On Sunday W and S10 re going to The Hunger Games and me and D6 are going to see the Lorax. We are now watching the Muppets. Hope everyone is having a nice weekend.
SIW
That's all encouraging but heed Starsky's advice -- don't jump through hoops. If she tells you to say something, make her wait / work for it. She'll appreciate it more when she gets it that way. Immediately jumping through the hoop is not attractive as Starsky pointed out.
Accuray
Sad, if you doubt it, ask 10 women.
A/S,
Thank you for the advice. The only hoops I will be jumping through are for my kids at this time.
W told me that she cancelled her appointment with her attorney. I am not reading anything into that.
SIW
A/S,
She also told me that she wanted me to tell her that I have been enjoying spending time with her. She told me she needs to hear these things as she thinks things would be better if I told her how I fealt.
Starsky,
R came up and told her that I enjoyed the time together with her and the kids.
W told me that she cancelled her appointment with her attorney. I am not reading anything into that.
Really? I think it's rather obvious.
Starsky
Starsky309,
Took your advice and have not sent a non kid/financial e-mail to her. Have not discussed the R or our M.
I have no problem giving my W space and letting her do her own thing. My focus through this process was being the best dad that I could be for my kids.
W told me that she has purposely been hands off with the kids the last few weeks.
I have no problem takings things day by day continuing to build my R with the kids, continue doing my 180's and working on GAL activities.
When it comes to my W I am trying to live without any expectations, but this is hard. The last two weeks she has been more intimate with me than we have been in a long time. She is also wanting to talk more and more. We are also doing more things together as a family.
As I previously stated W has indicated that she beleives that all this change is a temporary thing. I simply state that I am taking things day by day and that I am sorry she feels that way. It took her a long time to get where she is and will take a long time to get passed where we are.
Do I keep doing what I am doing and wait for my W to initiate any talk of reconciliation? Part of me hopes that she does not bring it up and that we take it slowly day by day. Then the impatient me would like her to put her ring on, etc. etc.
I think that there will be a time for this to come up and if I bring it up I may cause her to move two steps back.
It sounds like you are really doing great right now.
Must be empowering for you.
Labug,
Thanks for the kind words. Is it normal to feel empowered and hopeless the next hour? Is is really hard for me to not want to try and fix things (i.e. my marriage).
I took your advice to heart about my W providing a road map for the problems in our M. My R with the kids is sooo much better and they no longer follow the W wherever she goes.
I am hoping you can help me with this: W told me I was not there for such a long time regarding us, the kids and finances. I am doing more for the kids and when it comes to finances it is getting better. If my W is telling me I have not been there is it the best to detach from her? We are talking more and I do not see her pushing back as much as she used to. Wouldn't that be counter intuitive to improving our R? Just wanted your perspective. I really appreciate the advice you and others have provided.
SIW
My R with the kids is sooo much better and they no longer follow the W wherever she goes.
Hey SIW... it's been a bit since I checked in on your sitch and this totally caught my eye.
Do you remember when this crap started? You were so concerned because the kids wouldn't do anything without W. So see? Progress! Celebrate the small changes and successes.
Yes, maybe this will have no impact on piecing your M back together, but it IS a good thing for your kids.
WHG,
Thank you, I was thinking about this myself. We should get together and go to a Brewers Game.
SIW
Is it normal to feel empowered and hopeless the next hour? Is is really hard for me to not want to try and fix things
Yes, absolutely. If you read other threads, you'll see it over and over. One minute things are great and then the roller coaster goes down, down, down but...it also goes up.
Hey, I am a major control-freak-fixer. When the urge to fix strikes ask yourself: What is the problem? Does it belong to me? Did anyone ask for my help to fix it? If you answer no to the last 2, let it go.
Fixing things can give people the idea you think they are incapable of handling things.
If my W is telling me I have not been there is it the best to detach from her?
Detach is more about emotional distance than physical distance. You work to get to the place where her feelings/emotions don't affect yours.
Have you read the Livestrong article about detachment? Google it, if not.
Be nice but not fawning or pursuing. Give her mental space.
Keep up the good work!
Well on Tuesday my right middle finger became infected and started to hurt. W is a nurse drained the infection Tuesday Night (I know gross sorry) and was adament that I get to the clinc where she works ASAP.
She set the appointment up and then met me with the doctor this morning. The doctor let her do the procedure and then we had to discuss a few other things with the doctor that I have been neglecting, but I know had to be taken care of (immunizations, etc.).
When the Doctor left the room I thanked her for her help getting the appointment set up and taking care of the other medical issues. She mentioned the R and that she thinks this is a temporary thing. I just shrugged me sholders and said I can only take things day by day. Left it at that and nothing more was said of the R.
LA- I have read the livstrong article about detachment and have been trying to emotionally detach from her and sticking with a few boundaries.
Again thank you all for the help, support and kind words.
If it were me, I would have politely thanked my wife for her concern, and then scheduled my own office visit and procedure with someone else. I just don't think it helps your cause right now for her to be allowed to be the one rescuing you or "mothering" you in any way, and that YOU need to be doing the leading.
Maybe that's just me. I do think it was nice of her, though.
Starsky
Starsky,
I was glad that she set everything up. I took it a nice gesture, nothing more nothing less. Once less thing I had to do today.
SIW
I understand, Sad. Just trying to give you a different perspective. Glad everything turned out OK for your hand.
Starsky
Starsky,
I was glad that she set everything up. I took it a nice gesture, nothing more nothing less. Once less thing I had to do today.
SIW
I'm with you SIW, it helps to have someone who is able to expedite things in the world of health care. I'd pull every string I had access to!
Labug,
You sure were right about the ups and downs. Texted W to lt her know I was picking up D6 and that I would make dinner so she could go to her kick boxing class. We have been waiting for a reund for my sons hoky and it had not come yet.
Told her that we should send a f/u email to inquire on the status. W told me she to it yesterday. Told her that I was only concerned that it was sent back and that I was not concerned w/ what she did with it. Stated that finances have been going well. I was told it has not always been that way. I walked away and did some house work.
This was a complete 180 from ow she was. Wednesday night he said I been doing an A+ job as a dad and husband.
I am not mad/sad because of how she is acting more like avoiding and having a whatever attitude.
Some days will be great and others will be like this.
SIW
W woke up before the kids. R came up and she said that the reason she was acting this way towards me was because she was thinking about how I treated her and the kids in the past.
What do you say to such things? I told her that I cannot change the past. She then told me yet again that the change in my behavior is a temporary thing.
I will keep continuing to do what I am doing. Any other suggestions?
Sad, although difficult to hear, I think this is great news! She is really stewing about this.
Now I think you need to really make sure that the changes are real and for you, to make you the SIW you want to be, not just to get her back. If they aren't this whole thing will back fire.
I would also say I can't change the past, I'm sorry you feel that way (when you may not agree with her view on a particular issue), I understand why you might feel that way. You've apologized, so I think apologizing over and over is counter-productive.
Are you getting out and doing some activities just for you, without the kids. I'd make that a priority to and don't share what you do in your personal time with the W. Even if it's going to see a movie by yourself.
Have fun!
W sent me this email this morning:
How do I change how I feel? It has been years of this. It would have been easier for me if you would have just beat the s*** out of me, that is something I know how to deal with. Emotional abuse is not. You have been doing a great job with the kids lately but it feels to me like you are trying to manipulate me in to staying with you.
I really don't know what to do any more, maybe I should move and just be away from you. I need time to think. I feel like a failure because I don't/can't love you and I am going to destroy the kids because of the way you have been with them lately. They are going to hate me if I make them leave and if I didn't know better I would think that is why you have been acting so good with them lately.
I have been doing it so long by myself that I don't know what to do now that you are helping out. I don't know if my feelings can change.
What do I do with this?
I would not respond to it. There's only one question there, and you can't answer it for her. If pressed to respond, DB would be to simply listen & validate her feelings.
I would say "You should take the time you need to think. Change is always difficult just because it's different. When things change, it makes you feel worse before you feel better just because it's not like it's always been. I'm committed to making some changes for my own sake. I will pursue these changes for me, regardless of what happens between us, because it's what I want to do and the person I want to be. I love the kids and I want to be the father they deserve."
Per Adinva, that's not really answering her question, but just being up-front about the fact that you're going to work on your improvements no matter what -- whether she's watching or not.
Accuray
Accuray/Adinva,
You have summed up how I have been feeling. I am doing these things for me and my kids. I would find it dispicable to do this as a ploy to keep W from leaving.
SIW
Accuray,
You don't have to answer the question, but how did you go from proceeding with a D and then reconciliation in less than a month? It seems that W will move 1 step forward and 2 steps back the next.
SIW
I second that question...
Also, I love your song lyric at the end of your signature. I listen to that song every night!!!!
It is one of my W's favorites, can't listen to it. Makes me cry everytime I hear it.
how did you go from proceeding with a D and then reconciliation in less than a month?
First of all, my M was troubled for
years. I was reasonably oblivious and more or less OK with the way things were other than that I was unhappy with the sex life. W cheated on me twice for "one-nighter" bar nights, and had two long EA's, but I didn't know about any of it. I completely trusted her and thought she would
never do something like that. I figured if she was unhappy she'd talk to me about it, but she didn't.
At the time I found out what was going on and was asked for D, W's last EA had already ended (the weekend before). W was pushing to take things up a level when OM went no contact. W had been seeing an IC to help her plan to leave me, and had been working on that for months in terms of figuring out finances, impact on kids, etc., she'd spent lots of time planning it out.
Therefore, I wasn't making my situation worse by virtue of the fact that I didn't know about it. Secondly, when I did find out, I found this site really quick and used a DB coach right away and that made all the difference. That first 48 hours I definitely could have tanked it had I said / done the wrong things.
Finally, my marriage, although troubled, really wasn't that bad. We didn't have money, parenting, religion, anger, depression, alcohol or other issues. Part of what was so painful was that I couldn't look at it and see exactly where I had screwed up. It was more like W was acting like she didn't want to be around me, so I found other things to do, and she then got resentful that I wasn't spending more time connecting with her. I also learned that she was expecting me to do a lot of mind reading which I wasn't good at.
Once we were able to actually discuss the issues she had with me, I said "OK" and 180'd them. W was very surprised by this because she thought I'd be either unwilling or incapable.
I guess if I were to sum it up, I was able to turn it around because:
1) I got lucky because OM was gone by the time I started to DB
2) I got help right away
3) Things really weren't that bad historically
That's not to say it wasn't immensely painful and difficult -- it was the worst thing I've ever gone through by an order of magnitude. To say I "turned it around" in a month isn't really accurate. I got W to stop talking about divorce and consider reconciliation in a month, but for a long time it still could have gone either way, and W was letting me know.
It wasn't like things were suddenly all better -- she still was telling me it felt "bad" when I hugged her, she didn't like physical affection at all, that I'd be happier with someone else, etc. etc. etc.
I definitely don't consider my sitch an overnight success -- it's still not over.
Accuray
Ive always been curious about this too. thanks for sharing your story Accuray. You are definitely one of my favorite posters.
Sorry to hijack SIW. Ive been following your sitch and i think your doing an excellent job. Its does seem the sooner you find this site after the bomb and implement the techniques the quicker the results start to show up. best of luck.
It seems that W will move 1 step forward and 2 steps back the next.
Hey Sad, I've been following your thread for a while (incidentally I'm in WI too) and I keep seeing you have questions about this. The reason you seem to be making progress, your W lets her walls down, but the next day they are back up twice as tall and twice as thick is this:
All WAS' believe two immutable truths (and I think MWD points this out as well).
1) The WAS knows who the LBS is completely.
2) That the LBS can never change.
Your W is seeing the changes and likes them, but it puts her feelings in conflict with those two truths. Then the walls go back up again.
You can't fight against someone's feelings. You can't reason them away. Your W is flat out telling you these things. That she fears that the changes are only temporary and you are only doing this to win her back. When her feelings are in conflict, she keeps coming back to the feeling she needs to be away from you.
There may come a time where you need to agree with your wife's feelings.
W and I had some time tonight to talk. Mostly house/kids stuff, but she then brought up again. She basically said that it is going to take her some time to believe that my actions are not merely a tool to keep her to stay.
I just listened and then spent the rest of the night watching tv. We are going out to eat and to the museum n Milwaukee with kids on Saturday.
I am glad that I found this site shortly after W dropped the bomb. I would have been a blithering idiot without out everyone's help.
Fergie, I can appreciate your perspective and know that her feelings are out of my hands. I can only control what I can do. I will keep pressing on.
SIW
I'm going to change your name to Holding Steady in W. I hate that Sad part.
Keep doing what you're doing. Based on your early posts you are clearly 180 degrees from that sad sack!
She basically said that it is going to take her some time to believe that my actions are not merely a tool to keep her to stay.
This is not uncommon. But the fact that she is saying these thing means that 1, she is noticing and 2, she is interested in seeing more.
So you need to keep those changes and actions going. And they must become permanent otherwise if you R and you slip back into old habits or patterns you will find yourself back here again.
I just listened and then spent the rest of the night watching tv.
Next time in addition to listening, try validating. So when she says I don't trust your actions, you can respond by saying something along the lines of "W I can see why you may feel that way. I hope one day you'll see these as permanent changes" Or something like that.
I am glad that I found this site shortly after W dropped the bomb. I would have been a blithering idiot without out everyone's help.
Amen to that!!!!!
I'm going to change your name to Holding Steady in W. I hate that Sad part.
Yes!!! Where's the "standing ovation" emoticon??
Starsky
Had a decent weekend with kids and W. I have started to notice tht W is iniating contact more when I am not around or have the kids. Went to eat and the museum on Saturday since the weather was more March like than we have been having.
Finances came up and I told W that I really don't like having two separate accounts since I always have to cut a check for he bills. Made me feel like I was giving W an allowance. She then voiced her displeasure and I listened, listened and validated.
Saturday W and I watched TV together for the rest of the night, talked about present events and where we should go in the summer.
Sunday we had to run errands for the week and for our upcoming trip. This is a new development since W and I would not do this together.
Afternoon was nice so I showed S10 how to cut grass with me, he has wanted to do this. W went for walk and D6 and I used the riding mower to cut the grass.
Was in the middle of writing this when W comes down and tells me that we should cancel the trip to Disney because the kids are not falling asleep as quick as she would like, they both sleep with her and I sleep in another room. So I go upstairs to find out what is up S10 is crying because he is scared and D6 won.t go to sleep either. Both come to me crying, I get S10 situated again and D6 tucked in again. W gets mad and says "this is becoming easier for me to leave due to you kids, I will only have to do del with you half the time." I say nothing and W falls asleep minutes later, kids a little longer. W said today she was exhausted so I expected he to be short. Didn't ask why she fealt that way just focused on the kids.
W has flat out told me she is waiting for the other shoe to drop regarding my 180's. I usually walk away, but today I asked what if 6 months from now I am still helping with the kids/ house then what? W said then I won't be leaving. Like most stuff with us I do not put any hope in that.
Trying to keep myself upbeat the following has occurred since the bomb has dropped:
1. R between me and kids has improved ten fold, they are now relying on me and no longet solely counting on W,
2. With working out and hockey I have lost 30 pounds,
3. I am aware of the families finances and will talk about it wit W without blowing up,
4. W has initiated contact when we are apart,
5. W has started to talk again beyond small talk,
6. The things around the house that have bugged me are being done by me without bitching, and
7. W relying me on more with kids (picking up D6) without having to text.
These are small steps, but there is no physical contact with us, except for sex. I miss being able to give/get a hug or hold a hand.
From the great people here, my W's behavior is typical. I can't let myself get down. I will stay focused on my 180's.
SIW
W apologized to family this morning for being so crabby. I also forgot that yesterday was the test run for her to try Valium so she will be relaxed enough to fly to FA (W hates to fly/claustrophobic).
Even after she blew up on Sunday at the kids I slept very well. Really trying to not let her emotions affect how I am going to feel. This is a big step for me since I would have been on pins and needles if she was upset.
W then emailed me this morning and asked if I would go with her to the company's christmas party a few weeks from now (don't ask me why they hold it in April). Thought about it for a while and accepted the invitation.
Kids I am strapped in for this ride.
I feel envious of your sit. Xmas in April, funny!
HIW,
I am so nervous about this dinner party.
SIW
Hey, Holding Steady in WI, things sound good!
W called this morning on her way to work asking if I could pick up D6 from day care so that she could go to kick boxing. The funny thing about this is that I have been picking her up everyday for the last two weeks, but she will ask me every afternoon if I will pick her up.
Another 180 that I am working on has to do with my snooping on W. W leaves her phone out and e-mail/FB account are left open on her computer. It is probably better for all involved if I leave it alone. I wish I was not so nosy.
W is also making a bunch of meals that I like this week. She made my favorite dessert on Monday Night while I was at hockey with S10. I asked her to make them and she was more than willing. Wish feelings could be moved like this
Just keep doing what you're doing but don't take this things as an opportunity to pull closer. Maintain your distance and keep working on you.
Well since I have been talking about the good things figure I have to let you in on the bad things as well.
W did not meet with a L on 3/26, she changed the date to 3/27. Told me it was just a consulation and cost her $150. Found out when we were going through the check book on Friday Night.
I received the e-mail on Friday accusing me of manipulating the children in order for her to stay.
On Friday I asked her why she was acting like the way she was, she said that the L told her that I was committing "financial abuse" with the way we were handling finances. When she thought about she became livid. I simply listened and validated.
I know that if I stop doing my 180's I will be much worse off. For once, I feel like the changes I have made in my life are going to make me a better person and father. It is so much easier when I am doing this for me and not to keep her from leaving.
I also know that if I attempt to analyze what she is doing or how she feels my head will explode.
Anxiety is an issue with me, I am waiting for the other proverbial foot to drop with this.
I will continue to take things day by day and keep on trying to distance myself emotionally from my W. However, I will still be active with the kids and house.
Does anyone have any other suggestions?
Well since I have been talking about the good things figure I have to let you in on the bad things as well.
W did not meet with a L on 3/26, she changed the date to 3/27. Told me it was just a consulation and cost her $150. Found out when we were going through the check book on Friday Night.
Everyone going through this should have a consultation with an attorney. It is what it is.
I received the e-mail on Friday accusing me of manipulating the children in order for her to stay.
Her feelings are her feelings, and she probably does feel that way. You suddenly changed just when she had made a decision, now that makes her decision more difficult to follow through with.
On Friday I asked her why she was acting like the way she was, she said that the L told her that I was committing "financial abuse" with the way we were handling finances. When she thought about she became livid. I simply listened and validated.
Were you committing financial abuse?
How did you validate what she was saying? What did you say?
I know that if I stop doing my 180's I will be much worse off. For once, I feel like the changes I have made in my life are going to make me a better person and father. It is so much easier when I am doing this for me and not to keep her from leaving.
The most important line in this post.
I also know that if I attempt to analyze what she is doing or how she feels my head will explode.
Anxiety is an issue with me, I am waiting for the other proverbial foot to drop with this.
I will continue to take things day by day and keep on trying to distance myself emotionally from my W. However, I will still be active with the kids and house.
Does anyone have any other suggestions?
Stay out of her head.
Have a great day, Holding Steady
When she accused me of financil abuse this is how I reacted. First, I listened to get an idea where she was coming from.
Second, my reply was that I turned a blind eye to the finances and I was sorry. In the last six weeks I am beginning to understand why money was such an issue. I told her that I cannot go back in time, but I am appreciating that we have been able to talk about finances without it turning into a fight. Since the two of us have been working on the bills together the financial situation is improving and we are now cought up.
Also said since we have separate accounts I don't like having to write a check to her, it feels like I am giving an allowance. I have no problem with the money.
Also said since we have separate accounts I don't like having to write a check to her, it feels like I am giving an allowance.
Is this a check that goes in the joint acct to pay for household expenses?
If so, could you look at it as you would any other bill you pay? Try not to make a mountain out of a molehill.
Labug,
We have separate accounts. Her check goes into hers and my check goes into my account. The check is for the household bills. Not a big deal, just something that I would like to change, perhaps in the future.
SIW
Sorry for the multiple posts, it is just sooooo much easier to vent on here than talk with W. I never thought that I would reveal some of the most personal problems with strangers I have never met.
"L told her that I was committing "financial abuse" with the way we were handling finances. When she thought about she became livid. I simply listened and validated."
Why on earth would you validate her accusing you of financial abuse? It doesn't matter that you weren't aware of the finances. You just agreed with her that you were committing fraud.
You validate her feelings, not when she accuses you of something that isn't necessarily true. It sounds like the L is getting your W all riled up.
In terms of her accusing you of manipulating the children, that's where you draw the line. When she starts going down that path, hold up your hand, state firmly that you are not manipulating the children and that is something that she is going to have to deal with.
She's still using you as a scapegoat for all her problems. There are times when you have to hit her with a truth dart. I found that when I did that with my W when she was at her worst, it actually made her stop. Be assertive. Be the man.
I did think that the L got her riled up. Has not been the same since then.
I did tell her that any accusations of manipulation of the children is dispicable and how dare she say such a thing.
I really don't want to start a civil war with W over a consulation she has had with a L. At this point I have to let me actions speak for me, continue to be the best dad that I can be, help with the house and remain open with the finances. I am happy with my 180's and the GAL.
"I did tell her that any accusations of manipulation of the children is dispicable and how dare she say such a thing."
No that was the wrong way to approach it. All she probably heard was you calling her despicable. I know it was her accusations you found despicable, but nonetheless all she heard was that word coming from you.
Here's something that made things easier for me when my W would start spewing her nonsense. When she would start her rant, I would look at her like one of those crazy people you see wandering the street just muttering to themselves. I would actually shake my head and pity her like I would those people. It made things so much less personal and even was laughable at times.
When she started to say things that were totally off base, I did the hand thing and told hit her with the truth dart. Start asserting yourself and you won't find yourself run over all the time.
The best way to defuse a bully is to stand up to them. Not fight them, but hold your ground.
I should have just walked away. When she starts talking about the changes and that they are temporary I walk away from her.
I guess she got me off guard with the conversation.
Again, you don't need to walk away. There comes a time when you need to make a stand or else she's going to know she can walk all over you.
It has been a couple of days since I have been on the board. W and kids are getting excited about FA.
Kids have had the last two days off for teacher conferences. We tried to find a sitter, but were unable. I then took them to work with me. W e-mailed a few times on Wednesday since she had no patients and suggested that we meet for lunch with the kids. Since boss was gone I picked up lunch and ate with her and a work friend. She then showed us her office and we left. She then sent me an email telling me how nice it was a short time later.
W had to run some errands after work and was running out of time before teacher conferences. I texted her and told her that I could make dinner and that I could handle the conferences (was going to go anyway). Made dinner and we were off to school. The old me would have demanded that W drop what she is doing and go to the conferences on her own.
Went to student conferences and then talked about it with W. This morning before she left for work W told me that she feels like she has abandoned the kids since I am now doing the bulk of the care for them.
Her statement caught me off guard, I told her that she has not abandoned the kids. Told her that since I was home she was able to do errands without them (pick up meds for S10 and Easter stuff). W told me she is not used to this. I listened and stated that the kids are not soley the responsibility of one of us and that when we work together it is much easier for all. Told her that kids don't care whether W or I get them ready for school.
We both had to leave so I left it at that. It is these kind of statements that leave me flat footed. Do I just listen?
When she talks about my 180's (finances, children and home) I can listen and validate.
Went to student conferences and then talked about it with W. This morning before she left for work W told me that she feels like she has abandoned the kids since I am now doing the bulk of the care for them.
Her statement caught me off guard, I told her that she has not abandoned the kids. Told her that since I was home she was able to do errands without them (pick up meds for S10 and Easter stuff). W told me she is not used to this. I listened and stated that the kids are not soley the responsibility of one of us and that when we work together it is much easier for all "No doubt, this has been very difficult on all of us."
There. Fixed it for you.
Starsky
W and I talked today about R. She stated that the fact that I am helping more with the finances has made her madder than when I did not help her. And that if I did this earlier then we would not be where we are currently are.
She then starts drinking and tells me that she wants to be in love with the person she is with. She then wants to commence with sex, but I tell her what is the point and then finish stuff around the house.
I feel like my W has a three prong approach to our M to ensure that it fails:
1. Finances and the fact that I was selfish with money,
2. Helping with the kids and around the house, and
3. My feelings have not changed and I want to be in love.
I have changed my attitude regarding finances and have been making progress with the kids.
I told her that a month is too short to change her feelings.
On one hand she is telling me she is waiting for the other shoe to drop and then is telling me that after a certain period of time she will believe the changes our for real and will stay.
How can I work on romance when my W has a wall between us?
SIW, you are getting standard WAS script...
You need to shift your focus to you and your kids, ONLY...
She needs to work through her stuff...
You need to work through yours, take care of yourself, and take care of your kids...
Detach and and give your W at least the physical space she's asking for AND more emotional space than she's asking for...
Read the chapter on Cheeseless tunnels in DR... I think you are looking deep into a few...
Honestly I am concentrating on me and the kids. The only thing where W and I have to interact has to do with the finances. I leave the R talk to her.
Sure... OK, I'll buy that...
But then, you have idle time to think about how your W is trying to make the M fail...
Maybe those thoughts represent only 10% of what goes on in your brain...
But they are pretty negative thoughts...
How is thinking like that working for you?
Is it helping, hurting, or making no difference?
Maybe when you begin to think about how your W is trying to make your M fail...
You can stop thinking or typing that and start thinking and typing about what a great time you had with your kids...
Just a thought...
Of course, you can keep being angry with your W... your choice...
I guess on Thursday Night I was not feeling very positive or upbeat. No matter how things are I try to take them one day at a time. I guess when W was talking about where she was I got frustrated with the situation. I felt like saying a month ago you asked for D and gave me a laundry list for your actions. How could everything possibly change in 1 months time?
I can usually stay positive and not show W my true emotions. I agree KD that such thoughts concerning my W will not improve my M. I will be honest, It does bother me that W is waiting for me to fail on my 180's so she can leave.
In addition, I have to not take my W's word as the gospel truth and believe 1/2 of what she says.
In order to survive this with or without my W I must stay positive and continue to make myself the best dad for my kids and a husband only a fool would leave.
On a positive note we re sleeping in the same bed for the first time in awhile.
That's good, SIW...
I am sure you are doing the best you can in the PMA department, but sometimes it's good to have someone remind us if we're heading for the human version of BSOD.
Hope for the best, plan the worst, have no expectations, and keep moving forward...
Don't want the BSOD
If I could describe one word for my feelings for my W it would not be anger, but I think maybe frustration.
While I keep moving forward I need to remind myself that the journey with my W will be much different and full of obstacles. I guess that when she starts talking like a WAS the fixer in me goes into overdrive. Rather than taking things day by day I panic and then start thinking and acting negatively. Even W saw that I was acting different on Thursday Night.
Stupid question but one that has come up and left me dumb founded:
1) W doesn't know if her feelings will ever change, what do you do when she brings it up? Listen, ignore what?
Hi Sad... I've been reading along... I'm just south of your border!
What if, the next time she brings it up... You just tell her..
"Listen, W, I get it that you don't trust my changes. And, I am really starting to understand your concerns about your feelings never changing, as mine have changed, too. With these improvements, comes a better me requiring much more out of a marriage than status quo."
And, let it sit.
Mindfull,
Thanks for the suggestion. I have to understand that when it comes to W I need to have patience, something I don't have. I need to stay the course.
SIW
I think that when my W decides to drink I will leave the house for the night. This morning she did not recall our conversations, I think that I need to set this boundary rather than having to baby sit her.
She told me this morning that it only took us month to get the finances straight and that she is having a hard time adjusting to me helping with the finances. Kids were waking up so I could not spend much time discussing this with her.
I was looking at our bills and it looks like she is going to have a large junk of money left from the funds that I give her to pay some of the household bills. Is it wrong for me to suggest that I keep the money in savings?
SIW, you are getting standard WAS script...
You need to shift your focus to you and your kids, ONLY...
She needs to work through her stuff...
You need to work through yours, take care of yourself, and take care of your kids...
Detach and and give your W at least the physical space she's asking for AND more emotional space than she's asking for...
This. ^^^^How can I work on romance when my W has a wall between us?
You can't. Not yet.
Starsky
I guess that when she starts talking like a WAS the fixer in me goes into overdrive. Rather than taking things day by day I panic and then start thinking and acting negatively. Even W saw that I was acting different on Thursday Night.
Sad (GOD, you need to change that username!!),
If you haven't already done so, I'd suggest you do some basic reading on infidelity. There are several good books on it, and also you can read other people's sitches here on this forum.
Because "when your wife starts talking like a WAS" is precisely the time you should see it as SCRIPT, just laugh a little inside to yourself, and DON'T ENGAGE.You've got it backwards. Rather than "panic," you should actually draw COMFORT from just how typical, predictive, and "SCRIPT" everything she's saying is.
And knowing this, you can better plan your responses . . . in advance.
Starsky
Stupid question but one that has come up and left me dumb founded:
1) W doesn't know if her feelings will ever change, what do you do when she brings it up? Listen, ignore what?
A: "Considering what our marriage was like in the past, I can certainly understand you feeling that way. All I can tell you is that I LIKE the self-improvements that I'm making, and they make ME FEEL GOOD. I fully intend to keep at this, regardless of what happens with our marriage, as I'm going to need a "new Sad" in ANY future relationship, cuz the old Sad wasn't working for me."
Starsky
She told me this morning that it only took us month to get the finances straight and that she is having a hard time adjusting to me helping with the finances.
A: "I understand. This has been incredibly difficult on
all of us."
Starsky
Infidiltiy - have not read about that, but I suppose it would not hurt.
I should expect the script from my W since reading from otehr's post they all must be taking instruction from some universal book.
I am backing off and will take time to respond to her emails or texts. I need to give her more emotional space than she has requested.
Starsky - thank you for your responses, I will save them and activley read them so I am better prepared the next time this conversation occurs.
I was looking at our bills and it looks like she is going to have a large junk of money left from the funds that I give her to pay some of the household bills. Is it wrong for me to suggest that I keep the money in savings?
You should only be giving her enough to cover the joint household bills. If any item is in doubt, err on the generous side, but you should NOT be paying for her cellphone, drinks or anything else she's doing to sustain her waywardness/walk-away'dness. You don't need to "suggest" anything; just make the adjustment next month, and when she asks "Why did you only give me '$X'?", say "Because according to our family budget, that's all that's needed to cover the joint household bills. I decided to keep the rest in savings."
Starsky
P.S. btw, that "I have decided that _______ " phrasing is good to begin to use. It shows decisiveness, and leading, and strength.
Infidiltiy - have not read about that, but I suppose it would not hurt.
Sad, if I remember correctly, you searched but did not yet find any evidence of an active affair. Whether or not there is OM in the picture (and I highly suspect that there is), the script is still very similar. That's why I said "waywardness/walk-away'dness." The dynamics are pretty much the same.
Starsky
Starksy,
Why do you suspect a OM?
SIW
Because I re-read your very first post (lots of red flags in there), and have followed you all along, and your wife's behavior fits it to a "T."
Just my opinion; I certainly don't have any facts to base it on. Would it be a dealbreaker for you anyway? Wouldn't your approach be largely the same?
Honestly I do not know if it would be a deal breaker. Guess I will see/if when I get there. You are correct that the approach is the same.
Infidelity is a hard game and starsky plays some of the hardest here, in that regard...
None of us should ever have our heads in the sand thinking that there CAN'T be an OP...
So bringing that into the air can be VERY helpful for us to intake and deal with in the event that hard evidence presents to us WITHOUT SNOOPING FOR IT!!!
Just have a plan B. Consider it as one possibility and ruminate over how you might deal with it intellectually and emotionally and whether you MIGHT be able to get past it...
I am backing off and will take time to respond to her emails or texts. I need to give her more emotional space than she has requested.
The two does not mix.
Sad -
Okay, between Fergie and Starsky... now, I'm reading along closer...
(Pardon me if I forget some details, as I read your history awhile back)
Finances - I guess I just wonder... why, if you are the one to be distributing money, that she's given more than what is absolutely necessary to handle the household? I'm not sure I'd trust someone whose considering walking away, have access to additional cash...
Plus, if you're asked... and, finances were an issue in the past... Just LEAD, and tell her. "I gave you what was needed to run the house. I kept the rest in savings, and am considering how we can invest in most appropriately."
Drinking - This is just ridiculous behavior coming from a 30-something Mother. My first gut feeling is to ask you if there's a way to lock her butt out, if she's out late, and/or you know she'll be coming home in that state. You have young children.... yet, old enough to get that 'Mom's not normal'!!! I'd get a handle on that quickly. What's next? Taking them to events w/her friends, and driving them home?
Infidelity - I don't think women always have to have someone else lined to up to want to leave. Especially, since your W is in her party girl mode. HOWEVER, there sure are a lot of red flags!!!
Any subtle hints? If you've been intimate lately... new requests, etc...? New undergarments? New purchases from VS, etc...? Does she talk about a male, perhaps a mutual acquaintance, etc... a little more? Women like to talk. She might even find a way to talk abut them TO you... Just cuz, we like to talk.
Minfull,
W drinks at home and never ever drives period. She goes to work and comes home. Her routine has not switched, except maybe coming home earlier. Usually 2-3 glasses of wine when she drinks and does not go to bars/clubs.
She has been more intimate with me the last month than in years. No new undergarments/VS. She talks about work and all her workers. I don't get any buzz for a particular man.
SIW
The only things she has done without me is hanging out with one of her work friends and she brings the kids. She does not drink when she goes out and is in bed by 9:00 p.m. most nights. The last time she went out for drinks with friends was years ago.
Sheesh. Sad. Let's turn this around!
Mindfull,
I am trying. W is sick and was supposed to pick up the kids at Y-Care after work since I dropped them off. I told her that I would pick them up and take them to dinner so she could sleep. I don't want a sick W in FA.
SIW
Sad,
When you ML, will your wife kiss you passionately?
W kisses passionately all the time.
Then I doubt there is someone else.
W and I talked today about R. She stated that the fact that I am helping more with the finances has made her madder than when I did not help her. And that if I did this earlier then we would not be where we are currently are.
How can I work on romance when my W has a wall between us?
Yes, I've heard this one too.
And, I'm also curious about how to get past their wall - but then I have my own wall up now too. It's very sad.
Starsky,
You are amazing in your advice too. You make it all sound so under control. Thanks for your perspective.
LOVE is unconditional. RELATIONSHIPS -- especially married relationships -- are very much conditional, and there's nothing that says we have to (or even should) respond to a spouse's unfaithfulness or walk-away'dness with our unconditional love, trust and support. Our spouses begin to value us when we learn to better value ourselves -- and no sooner.
Starsky
I think I will print and put that on my wall - great reminder!!
Starsky,
You are amazing in your advice too. You make it all sound so under control. Thanks for your perspective.
Thanks, Yankee. It's always easier when you're on the outside of the turmoil, looking in. I had others provide that perspective for ME, and so now I just try to "pay it forward," as it were.
Starsky
Another nice weekend with the W and family. Another night I slept in the same bed with W (no ML). Took the kids to Chicago on Saturday to go shopping and out to eat. W is talking more about the future and our plans for Summer. Still telling myself not too look to much into it though. Although keeping a positive outlook and taking it one day at a time.
We hosted Easter at our house and had W's family over. W and I cleaned the house together and offered to help with the food (I am the cook). It is so much easier when we are working together. Thought it would be awkward, but W was very supportive and it was one of the nicest holiday's we have hosted. MIL went out of her way to support me and I guess she had a heart to heart with W. I really like spending time with her family.
W went to the doctor this morning since we was having her period every 6-7 days. She called me after the appointment and now has to get an ultrasound since there appears to be a problem on Tuesday. I listened to her and told her that I was hoping for the best (health wise) for her.
Do I offer support of still keep my distance? She is leaning on me should I still be distant?