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Posted By: jc180 looking for hope - 03/13/12 02:07 PM
After reading these forum for the past two days I thought I should share my story. I would welcome any and all advice and thoughts.

After a particularly bad fight about money last March my wife's attitude began to change. She was more distant but I ignored it because she is the type of person that can hold a grudge for a very long time. But as time went on we began to argue more and more. We were both unhappy but for different reasons. So I decided I would do something about to change myself. I did not like who I had become in the last two years and I wanted it to change. So I went to see a psychologist.

This is some background on why I needed to go:
2009 was a very rough year for us. It started off great because I had just graduated college the following December and my wife was pregnant. All of our plans were going great. We agreed I would be a stay at home dad. My son was born in August.

In November my best friend was killed by a hit and run driver. The depression was overwhelming. A few weeks after that I was diagnosed with kidney cancer. Thank God it was stage 1 and I had a very high survival rate. Still I am prone to anxiety and it hit me very hard. My surgery went great and I have not had any related problems since then.

Fast forward to 2011 and therapy is going great. I made real progress in dealing with anxiety and my related temper. I though things were going good. Until last August when my wife told me she no longer wanted to be with me. It was a total shock to me. She said she felt she was carrying the load of the marriage on her back. She resented that I was a stay at home dad while she had to go and work. She no longer wanted to invest in me and she felt I had manipulated her for years. I had all of the typical reactions. I argued, begged, pleaded, bargained. Everything! I listened to her arguments and agreed that some things were true. I've focused hard on the past and realize that I did my part to damage the marriage. I agreed that I did take things for granted and I did not invest as much as I should have. I was not concerned about the future. Her main contention was that I never worked as hard as she did. In fact while I went to school I didn't work. Little did I know that she was unhappy with this arrangement even though it was her idea.

So she recommended going to a Marriage counselor. We went for a just 4 sessions before she made the announcement that she no longer wanted to be married to me. I truly believe I made every effort to make her happy at that point. Everyone we knew was telling me how much I had changed. I was 100 percent focused on our family and making her happy. It turned out she resented me even more for being a "perfect" husband. I was devastated. How could she divorce me when our son was only 2 and I worked so hard?

Her behavior during therapy and up until this point was a roller coaster. She would say one thing and do another. One day I'm the source of every problem in her life and the next day she wants to have sex and cuddle on the couch. I was going crazy trying to figure her out.

We both stayed at home to be closer to our child, but she was adamant that she wanted a divorce. However, a week later her parents sat her down and she had a change of heart. She was raised in a religious house and they reminded her of her moral obligations. I thought this was fantastic. I thought my prayers had been answered.

We put off going back to counseling until she finished the last few months of her Masters degree. While I was reading books on marriage and trying extra hard to reconcile she was having no part in it. She stopped wearing her wedding ring and began to spend more time at the gym than ever before. When I asked if we were making progress she would get angry and say "I'm here arent' I" She told me she only went to the new marriage counselor because I wanted her to. Some weeks would be great and other not so great. I took her to dance class with me and we starting going out more. Things were going so well I joked with my therapist that I was running out of things to complain about.

Until last week. I admit I can be need sometimes because I want to feel reassured about our marriage. I tried my best to keep my mouth shut and just keep following the 180 advice and following the love languages. But sometimes I would get weak and began questioning her about our relationship. This would only make her angry. So we had a big argument. I told her how the last few weeks gave me hope and happiness but the last couple of days she was so negative. She told me it was all her way of "trying" and she couldn't remember feeling good about any of that time. She couldn't even tell me any good memories about us, ever! We have been married almost 12 years and together for almost 18.

So she left for the night. I stayed home with our child. The next day our son was sick and instead of going with me to the doctor she went to the gym. I knew this time she was serious. The next day she asked me what my plans were. I told her I was going to stay home and take care of the house and baby like I normally do. I was also going to continue to look for work. I also was going to continue to try to be the best husband I could. If she stayed great but if you leave I can't stop you. I wish you would stay with us. Well she blew up and claimed I was making her leave and she packed her stuff and left.
It's been about 6 days now and she only comes to visit our son for a few hours and leaves in the evening. I am staying positive and not acting out or saying anything bad to her. She is ignoring me when I see her in person, but she sends me text saying I need to leave the house and I'm keeping her from her son. That he prefers her and I am being unreasonable. It is my belief that as his primary care taker I should try to keep his life as stable as possible. It hurts me to know that she would rather leave than do anything possible to stay close to him.

Today I am going to ask my attorney to file for divorce. I'm torn as to what to do. On one hand I feel I have to protect my access to my son and ensure that she continues to pay the bills. On the other hand I feel like I am giving up and I absolutely want her back. She is so cold and distant from me. If I only had a glimmer of hope I wouldn't file. Can filing for divorce be a 180 if she claims I am not a man and I only want to stay married for the comfort she provides? Am I right thinking she is going through a MLC?
Thanks for reading.
Posted By: Cadet Re: looking for hope - 03/14/12 02:43 PM
Originally Posted By: jc180
Today I am going to ask my attorney to file for divorce. I'm torn as to what to do. On one hand I feel I have to protect my access to my son and ensure that she continues to pay the bills. On the other hand I feel like I am giving up and I absolutely want her back. She is so cold and distant from me. If I only had a glimmer of hope I wouldn't file. Can filing for divorce be a 180 if she claims I am not a man and I only want to stay married for the comfort she provides? Am I right thinking she is going through a MLC?


Welcome to the board.

Nothing wrong with going to an attorney to find out your rights but I would not FILE for divorce if you do not want to be divorced.

If she is going through a MLC nothing you DO is going to stop it or turn it around.

Hopefully some one will come around and post the 37 rules to you, their are also resources on the MLC board that you can read about that.

Right now you are on moderation, please keep posting in small frequent posts on this thread until you get to 100 posts. Or you can give advice to others on their threads.
But in general stick to one for yourself.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 03/15/12 03:35 AM
Thanks for the info.
I did actually file. I was torn but I think I made the right decision. She made threats and I wanted to protect my right to see my son. Since then we sat down and tried to come up with some compromises. So far we are not close to coming to an agreement. My goals right now are to find a job so I can prepare for my new life. I still hold out hope and I want her to change her mind. I ordered Divorce Remedy and received it yesterday.
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: looking for hope - 03/15/12 04:29 PM
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.

21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.

33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 03/15/12 09:52 PM
Originally Posted By: Rick1963
(But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.


Amazing! This is what I did a week ago. We had a good month and she became distant again. I knew I shouldn't have asked but I couldn't help it. It started a hurtful conversation that turned into a fight. That's when she told me she wanted a divorce again. She moved out that night.

She always told me she didn't hate me, but she didn't love me. I guess she is feeling the pain of being separated from our son because when I refused to leave the house she told me now she hated me.

People are telling me to act as if I'm getting on with my life and not to make things convenient for her. Anytime I tell her I can't do something she tells me something nasty. I just respond that I know it is hard on her.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 03/16/12 10:35 PM
Today is going to be a rough day. I told my W she can take our son for the weekend. She is staying at her sisters house. I've only been away from him 2 nights since he was born. Once was because I was having surgery. I think since we are going to have to share custody later on, I might as well start now. I hope having him to herself without my help will give her a glimpse of what life will be like without me. As a stay at home dad I do most of the work taking care of him. Family are telling me she does not know what she is in for. I keeping hoping the reality of the situation will make her come back home. However, I am reminded that at any time she could have come back but she hasn't.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 03/17/12 06:59 PM
Last night was horrible. It was the first night I spent alone without my wife and son. I went out to dinner and drinks with my BF. As I got closer to home my heart began to pound. When I got inside I said, "I'm home" and the grief overcame me. I don't think I've ever cried so hard. I was sad and angry at the same time.
So today is another day and I made a list of things to do. Have to keep GAL going. So now that I've been looking for work I have to get some new clothes. I went on an interview yesterday and I didn't like the way I looked. You see last August my wife forced me to the gym. Later on she complained that it was just another example of me not caring about the family. She felt like "my mother" trying to get me to care about my health. I see her point because since I only have one kidney now I have to do my best to avoid diabetes. Fast forward to yesterday and my clothes are way too big. I've lost 34 pounds in 7 months. That is one thing I don't want to backslide on.
I'm confused about something. When my wife text and ask how my son is doing should I be honest. Sometimes he cries for his mommy, but I'm afraid if I tell her that. She might see it as a manipulation. Like i'm trying to get her to feel bad about leaving. So should I continue to tell her he is fine?
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 03/18/12 01:28 PM
I got a text last night from W. She wanted to talk. Of course I got my hopes up when I knew I shouldn't have. She wanted to discuss custody and visitation. While I was talking to her I had the DR book in front of me and the list of 37 on the screen to remind me of what I have to do. So I tried as best as I could to keep things civil. Well as soon as I don't agree with her on something she begins to get angry. Now i'm being accused of projecting my parents divorce onto my son. She also told me again that I am not thinking about whats best for our son. This is just so frustrating because she is treating our divorce like a business deal. I admit I raised my voice. I shouldn't have. By the end of the call she threatened to go "full force" with her attorney.

I was so angry after the call I was ranting and raving to my mother for over an hour. Then I came back down to earth and realized I shouldn't be that way. I have to remember she is operating from a position of hurt and fear. Reading the 37 gave me piece of mind. I accept that I alone am working on DB and it is going to be a long bumpy road.

One of her request is to spend family time together once a quarter for the first year. Is this a good thing?
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 03/18/12 02:48 PM
Hi Jc. This is going to be tough. But you need to get your fiances in order.

As you are a stay at home father. But you need to make sure that you will have enough money to survive a few months if your wife decides to spend like crazy.

I would put this down as the number one goal this week. And make it happen's. You have mentioned that you are going to do this in your first post but have not followed up with a progress report. Make sure it happens.

2nd. Any time your WS talks about legal matters or threatens lawyer. Walk away. Tell her that her lawyer can talk to yours.

Do not be drawn into that world. It will become part of the framework for why she wants a divorce.

I apologize. I read, but I do not see where you state your wife is sleeping and living when she is away.

You are in a very difficult position. You are right where the two of you agreed for you to be. Did you ever talk about an exit strategy for you to enter the workforce again?

I am also going to say that you do not have all the information on what is going on.

I believe you need to do a little investigation on the gym and then branch out to other aspects of your wife's life that you do not fully know. Follow up on suspicions. I am not saying to snoop around. I am saying that you figure out exactly what your up against.

Your wife is going to try over and over to draw you into drama.
You need to develop a very thick hide and act 'as if'. It will be extremely difficult. But you must do this. It is for you. And you alone. Read the list Rick posted. It is stated in there over and over.

Keep with the tidying yourself up. Your wife looks at appearance and health very importantly.

Dress yourself up to her level. Then go beyond. Heck. Start going to her gym. Just not at the same time. It will help with finding out what is going on. And it will eventually help with meeting her needs on looks and appearance.

Another thing. Do not beat yourself about raising your voice. Just forget about it.

Non-issue.

Same with her anger.

When you disagree. End the conversation. Do not slide on your self respect here. Do not encourage the divorce.

When she says that you are not thinking what is best for your son.

Mention that you are doing everything in your power to raise your son in a loving stable home with two parents.

Then drop it. She is going to say many bizarre things over the next little while. Worst case you have to repeat it like you heard it and just add the words. " I am" .... in front of it.

Let her come to her own thoughts on that.

Protect your son. And if you can go for full custody on your son.
And build up the background for you looking and getting back into the workforce.

Worst case. You get into the workforce and have proof to show that you are doing everything to support yourself then your child if you do divorce.


When she comes at you to move out.

Do not.

If she wants help to find a place to live.

Do not help her.

But I remind you. Finances are #1. You need to learn how to become a walk away here so you can survive and take care of your son.

Take care.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 03/20/12 12:19 AM
Thanks for the advice. After talking with an attorney I decided it was in my best interest to take half of the savings out of the bank. It should give me a few months to survive if I have to move in with a friend. But this cash is also what I have to pay the lawyer with. I've already had two interviews and I hope to get a job very soon. It won't pay much but at least I can show up to court with a job.

My W is living with her sister right now.

Our plan was for me to go back to school for my masters after my wife completed hers. After I was done my son would be old enough for pre-k. Well she got her masters and asked for a divorce two months later.

I agree that her behavior is becoming more bizarre. She told a friend of ours that everything was my fault and that I was a very jealous person. My jaw dropped because I have never been accused of being jealous. I was told she sounds very confused and in denial. Which fits in with what the first Therapist said.

As far as suspicions are concerned. I haven't been able to verify anything. I think I'd rather hope for the best but expect the worst when it comes to that.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 03/20/12 03:27 AM
Do not leave your home. Do not give up your son. Stay in your home. Stay in your bed. You are not leaving the marriage. This is a huge mistake to give up either.

As for the friends. When they tell you this stuff. Listen. Then ask your friend to be a friend of the marriage. Tell them to support and love the both of you. Always take the high road. Then change the subject and talk about their life. I call it the master of talking tons, but saying nothing.

This has the advantage that your mutual friends will see the character in you. It also helps your friends in knowing that you are not just talking to them to gather information. As that is perusing. And we do not want to break that major rule of DB. As its a path of good intentions.

Once your mind is back on track. You should go and complete that goal and get your masters.
Posted By: jks Re: looking for hope - 03/20/12 04:31 PM
I think chatterbug has some of your best advice yet. I wanted to share a post that I found on one of the boards here that I saved for myself when times are rough. I think it's very powerful.

Now there are two kinds of divorce that happen, sort of at the same time. One is the legal divorce, and the other one is the emotional divorce.

We get the two confused.

We think we're going to stop the emotional divorce by stopping the legal divorce. The more you try to stop the legal side of divorce, the more rebellious he or she feels.

The more you use pressure, the less they see your inner beauty and your charm.

Everybody thinks, professionals and non-professionals alike, they say to have a happy marriage or a happy relationship, you have to work at it.

But I say that it's the working that makes it not work.

When you criticize, you're working at improving your mate.

When you complain to your lover, you're working at improving them.

When you argue, you're working at improving them.

When you try to reason with them.

When you tell them how much you love them.

Both when you're reasoning and when you're telling them how much you love them, you are trying to change them. You are working at changing them. And it's that working at changing them, that is the only problem.

Proof? You want proof?

Stop all of that, and watch the relationship get better.

Stop all of that working. Allow and accept, one hundred percent, whatever your mate thinks, feels, or does is perfectly okay.

It's perfectly okay.

And watch them improve themselves.

Their negative feelings towards you will weaken rapidly, because their negative feeling needs something in you to fight with. And when you sincerely see what's on their side, when you sincerely agree with them, and when you lovingly and sincerely go one hundred percent totally, instantly, and happily your mate's way, when you do that there's nothing for their negative feeling to build on.

You have put the white flag up.

You've thrown your gun down.

That forces them to do the same thing. They cannot shoot you when you have no gun. When you're not defending yourself, THEY want to defend you.

It's not normal to not defend yourself, but it is healthy.

Agree with them.

Do not disagree at all.

It's not to your advantage.
....Her negative or his negative attitudes towards you are being supported by you communicating what you want.

Every time you say to them, "But, I love you," you are saying, "but I want something different than what you want. You want to pull away, but I want you to come closer. I don't really care what you want. It's what I want that's important."

Lots of times men tell their wives, "I've changed. I've changed. Let's get back together. I've changed."

I tell the husbands that "Every time you say, 'I've changed,' you're communicating to her that you have not changed."

"Really? Why is that? How is that? I don't understand that."

"Of course, you don't understand. But what's your motivation? Why are you telling him or her how you've changed? What's your purpose? Isn't it to get your way?"

"Yeah, I want her back."

"That's your way. It's not her way, right now. She said she may consider it later, maybe, but not right now. And every time you say, 'I've changed,' you're saying, 'Give me my way! Give me my way! Give me my way! What I want is more important than what you want. I don't give a hoot what you want."

And subconsciously, she says, "He hasn't changed. He's still the neurotic, selfish, pressuring guy he always was. There's no way I'm going to go back to him, or feel positive to him as long as he is this way."
Posted By: jks Re: looking for hope - 03/20/12 04:37 PM
I know in your case you have already filed but quite possibly by not pushing the issue any further and letting nature take its course, you may be able to turn this around after all. If you can find the thread by "Bustorama" it is one of the best DBing stories I have ever seen on the boards. A lot of powerful stuff there and he was able to turn his R around in the end.

Obviously, it has to be something that you want. So maybe you need to really evaluate what YOU want first.

From what I read on his threads, he had to do a lot of validating to his wife and he did go out and GAL FOR REAL. He was doing things for himself and loving himself more and more everyday. It's a really good read if you can find it.

Good luck to you!
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 03/22/12 02:48 PM
So today my W moved her direct deposit somewhere else. When I asked her what she is going to do about a bounced check and the bills she said it was on me because I put my foot down about not leaving the house and I should use the money I took out of the savings. She then moved all of our sons money into the checking which is no where near the amount I need to pay the bills and buy groceries. I told her that she knows the money I have is to support my access to our son when I'm homeless and if I don't have a job. Plus, that is what I'm using for the attorney.

I also repeated that the reason I have not left is because I am trying to provide stability for our son and a two parent household, but she left.

It seems like when she text and is on the phone she is meaner than when she is in person. The past two days she has been polite. She even spent 30 mins at home trying to get our son to bed. She told me she is dreading this weekend which I have him all to myself. She said she doesn't know how she is going to cope and that she was surprised I didn't call her when she had him. I said I was respecting her space. She also said she didn't want to let me have him for 30 days during the summer. I didn't say anything to that. In my mind that is something for the judge to decide. So that made me feel better. Knowing that she was thinking about why I didn't call. Plus, she offered me one of her cookies.

I am getting closer to getting a job. I had a really long interview that went well. However, the hours are not great and the pay is low. I also joined a union and I hope to be getting called soon for work this weekend.

I will never look at a roller coaster the same way again. And the ride has just begun.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 03/22/12 05:46 PM
Bills affect both your credit.

You have a few options here.

1. If the bills are in her name. Leave them be and do not open any of her mail. Her Responsibility
2. If the bills are in both your names. a) Inform her that she is responsible to continue to pay 50% of the bills.
3. If your prior agreement was for her to pay 100% of the bills and the bill payments came from that recently closed bank account. Then it is her responsibility to update the companies where the payments are coming from.

4. Contact your lawyer. State the facts. But make sure you add in that wife has abandoned home , children. Proof is in the fact that she no longer lives there, pays any bills nor pays for any food for the children. Ask what your legally required to do in this situation. ( Make sure you research all this ahead of time so you know the answers ) You may be surprised here that the wife will have to pay up and give a lump sum to carry you over. It is also funny how people are after a lawyer contacts another lawyer and mentions this proof of abandonment and that lawyer contacts their client and explains it to them... Then magically money starts to flow again.

5. Cave in and let her have her way.

So your wife is looking at having services shut off that affect you and your 2 year old son. Knowing full well that you have zero income generation and is hoping to starve you of your money for a lawyer that is helping you with the legalities of your divorce. All in a temper over the fact she is not getting her way 100% of the time and your happy she offered you a cookie...

That my friend is taking crumbs.
Posted By: HollyAnn Re: looking for hope - 03/22/12 07:01 PM
You need to investigate the possibility of OM in her life. Keep an eye on cell and bank records.
This advice to "not snoop" is misguided and very dangerous. Until you know exactly what you are dealing with, you need to "snoop" to protect your own well being and to be able to head off any of her shenanigans.
As far as her "getting angry"....so what? Let her!!
Do not operate out of fear. Keep your cool no matter what she says or does. She will "get angry" about anything and everything. Again, so what?
Women do not respect a man they can boss around; it is very repugnant to us and reeks of weakness; not at all attractive.
Stand up for yourself and let her anger roll off your back.
Posted By: Grmpy_Mnky Re: looking for hope - 03/22/12 07:27 PM
^^^um, really?!
Posted By: Grmpy_Mnky Re: looking for hope - 03/22/12 07:28 PM
Go ahead and cuss her out and break stuff while you are at it...
(kidding btw)
Posted By: RoRoinMD Re: looking for hope - 03/22/12 07:31 PM
Originally Posted By: Grmpy_Mnky
Go ahead and cuss her out and break stuff while you are at it...
(kidding btw)


Funny! LOL

Snooping for me always sends me in a tailspin. I wouldn't advise you do it unless you're planning on making immediate decisions based on what you find out.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: looking for hope - 03/22/12 07:32 PM
JC...

Right now, The relationship should really take a back burner to the welfare of your Son...

You are the primary caregiver....yes ?

His primary residence is in the home you stay in ??

You have no income right now, and were a stay at home Dad ?

Wife has moved out ?

Household bills were paid from an account that she furnished the funds to ???
Posted By: Grmpy_Mnky Re: looking for hope - 03/22/12 07:37 PM
OK, so if you snoop and you find out something bad. How will you feel? Pretty shyty I bet...

Right now you already feel shyty. She will do what she is going to do no matter what.

What if you detach now and just tell yourself "whatever?" Let her do her thing and you get your life together and take care of yourself. I know, easier said than done.

Doubt this? Go check out the archive of success stories. Snooping only prolonged the possibility any potential reconciliation. If not, at least you took the high road.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 03/22/12 08:21 PM
I recommend that if your going to post in a thread that you read the back story. That way you can offer some advice worth thinking about and structure your thoughts based on the stitch. The majority of the posts after my last post look like the previous posts were not read. And its only a few pages long.

Just saying. And no I do not want to thread cap this with a discussion on it.
Posted By: RoRoinMD Re: looking for hope - 03/22/12 08:31 PM
Originally Posted By: chatterbug
I recommend that if your going to post in a thread that you read the back story. That way you can offer some advice worth thinking about and structure your thoughts based on the stitch. The majority of the posts after my last post look like the previous posts were not read. And its only a few pages long.

Just saying. And no I do not want to thread cap this with a discussion on it.


Surely you knew someone was going to respond to this. LOL

I personally was responding specifically to Holly Ann's post. Not anything that was posted beforehand. Maybe if you read the last few posts, you will get that.

We are all here to help each other, not put down anyone on what they post. I understand your point, but your comment about offering advice worth thinking about was uncalled for, and frankly kind of rude. j/s
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 03/22/12 10:56 PM
Originally Posted By: Mach1
JC...

Right now, The relationship should really take a back burner to the welfare of your Son...

You are the primary caregiver....yes ?

His primary residence is in the home you stay in ??

You have no income right now, and were a stay at home Dad ?

Wife has moved out ?

Household bills were paid from an account that she furnished the funds to ???



Yes to all of the above.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 03/22/12 11:14 PM
I contacted the lawyer today and he said he will have the temporary orders ready to go Friday. I'm not sure when they judge will see them but at least progress is being made.

W picked up my son today and apologized for what she said. She said just to tell her how much I need for gas and groceries and she will pay all of the bills from her new bank account.

She also told me she is stressing about not having him this weekend. She asked me how I did it and I just smiled and said nothing. She also asked if we had something fun planned and I said i'm sure I will think of something. Truth be told I might just be working this weekend. I'm crossing my fingers that I get a call tomorrow. So I'm happy that I am making progress moving forward but I'm upset that I might not get to spend the whole weekend with my son. I'm keeping my potential job a secret for now because I want to avoid a fight about visitation. I'm sure she will tell me since I can't be with him to let her have him. I would rather she felt what I felt like last weekend when I didn't have him.

This is so ridiculous. During our first attempt at Reconciliation she told me she resented me for staying at home. She didn't realize how much her maternal instincts would kick in and she wanted to be a stay at home mom. The irony now is that her time with him will be cut in half because of the D!

I saw my therapist today and she had some interesting things to say. Mainly that in her opinion my wife was looking to leave the marriage back when I began therapy. She was pointing the finger at me and accusing me of being the problem. However, since I made major changes in my behavior quickly she no longer had that to be mad about. So now she is full denial of our problems and is angry. I think the DR book is working. She was expecting me to behave in a certain way i.e crying, begging, bargaining, but I've been cool and collective. I think it is frustrating her.

As I was typing this she called me and asked why I was being secretive. LOL. She wanted to know what I had planned for this weekend. I just said not to worry about him and we will be having fun. She wants to "imagine" what he will be doing over the weekend.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: looking for hope - 03/23/12 11:51 AM
Originally Posted By: jc180

Yes to all of the above.



I just wanted to be clear...

Everything that was posted, seemed to be so ...one way or the other.



I agree with what Cbug is saying, you have to protect yourself.

What I am suggesting is...that you address only the things that need to be addressed today..

What you are feeling, is coming from your emotions, and rarely do decisions made from emotion, turn out well...

I'm not sure if it too late or not...but once you ring that Divorce bell, you can't un-ring it....

I'm assuming that it is not what you want, so why should you work toward that ???

I recommend talking with your lawyer about filing a temporary custody and support order through juvenile court. It would be immediate, and yield the results you are looking for, and would also allow you some time to make these other decisions after you can get to a clearer state of mind...

I also recommend that you keep a calendar of the time you are with your Son, and with your spouse. I would also start a daily journal of events, write out any interactions , and arguments.

This is also part of protecting yourself and your time with your Son.


As far as sharing with her....



You can share what you are comfortable sharing. IF you can handle the interactions, and be a positive ray of light ?

Then, why not....

Just make sure when you withhold information, you do it for the right reasons....

I think you may have some "revenge" thinking in your system, and a child should never be used as a "pawn"...

If you are comfortable with 50% custody, then work towards that.....nothing more, nothing less...

If you feel that you want full custody ? ( based on what you have done in the past, I can see you working for that), then make sure you are doing it for the right reasons...
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 03/23/12 03:44 PM
Hi Mach1 I just came on here to see if Jc180 was writing all this down. As I failed to mention it earlier. It is an extremely important step. To document everything. It helps legally and it helps emotionally.

JC when you journal. Take some time out to journal what you see as your problems. But make sure you always balance it with what you see as her problems.

As it takes two people to break a marriage. As it takes two people to put a marriage back together.

And remember that the legal divorce and the emotional side are separate.

You need to figure out yourself if you want to attempt to save the marriage or not.

The legal aspects are for the protection of your son and your wellbeing. This is a goal you have stated from the get go.



It was good to see that reason came into play between you two and you could communicate as adults about the bills. And as Mach says. Always remain respectful, honest and fair. It will help you more in the long run than anything else.
Posted By: PrincessP Re: looking for hope - 03/23/12 06:48 PM
Originally Posted By: jc180

I saw my therapist today and she had some interesting things to say. Mainly that in her opinion my wife was looking to leave the marriage back when I began therapy. She was pointing the finger at me and accusing me of being the problem. However, since I made major changes in my behavior quickly she no longer had that to be mad about. So now she is full denial of our problems and is angry.


Very interesting that your therapist identified that this circumstance as a turning point or a subtle message whether to themself or you about the M getting to or at a bad place. It makes me wonder if my H did the same subconsciously. Weird. I have to explore this with my therapist.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 03/25/12 02:23 PM
I had a meeting with my attorney and he showed me the temp orders. It basically ask that everything be kept the same until the end of the divorce. I get to stay in the house and she has to keep paying the bills. Just to clarify I do not want a divorce. The reason I filed first is because I felt I had to in order to protect my access to my son. I also felt pressured by her because she has all of the power and she insinuated that she was going to have me kicked out and would restrict me from my son. It was not an easy choice.

I considered the advice that I may have "revenge" thinking. I feel that it may be sub-conscience. I would never knowingly use my son as a pawn. To be clear when I said I wanted her to feel what I felt last weekend I meant it in a hopeful way. That she would realize how devastating D would be for all of us. Also, through out all of this she has shown a lack of understanding of what D will be like. For example, immediately after the Bomb she kept insisting that separation is what she wanted. During one conversation I asked her to tell me what separation meant to her. She said "divorce". I was so upset that all that time I was preparing for a separation, but she actually meant D. She said she thought they were the same thing! This is a smart woman. How could she not know the difference. When I asked her what our D life would be like she said, "well, when I go to work you will come over and watch our son. When I come home you will leave to your house" when I asked how was I supposed to support myself she said she would pay me. My response was less than calm! I told her that wasn't divorce that was turning me into a nanny.

Another time she told me "next year if we aren't divorced we should renew our wedding vows." When I told the MC she laughed. My wife's actions and words go from one extreme to another. It's like she cannot exist in the middle. When I ask her to explain that statement she just says "I don't know!"

In spite of everything I do love her and I do want to save the marriage. She is just so confusing. Even her parents asked me if I thought there was something wrong with her brain. She was upset at me this weekend because I didn't keep her updated on our son. I told her he was fine and she was free to call me any time. Her response was that I didn't text her updates because it was not convenient for me. She wasn't always this way. I wish the aliens that kidnapped her would please return her and take this clone back.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 03/26/12 01:04 PM
What is your goals this week JC?
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 03/26/12 04:37 PM
I have several goals this week. First of all to get back to the gym this monday through friday. I also haven't been cooking at home. So starting today I will make dinner all this week. Last week I went to get some groceries and I had a bad time. I just panicked and didn't know what I was doing. It's like I forgot what to do. I had to adjust my thinking from "family" to "us" meaning my son and I. Also, of course to keep putting in applications for work.

This weekend was its own type of roller coaster. I had my son all weekend. We did some fun stuff but it had a sense of sadness for me. I just keep thinking of what was and what could be. Plus, my son was asking for mommy.

W sent me a text telling me she has separated our phone accounts. She was also upset I didn't send her updates on our son. I told her she was welcome to call anytime, but she sarcastically said it wasn't convenient for me. When she picked him up I asked if she considered returning home and she flatly said no. Then she asked when she was getting served with papers. I said I didn't know. She also said her first lawyer did work out and it would be a while.

I also was stunned at her shorts! They were very short. I asked her about them and she claimed she was in a hurry when she bought them and didn't realize how short they were. My family said it's just part of the "new" her. She told me she wanted her freedom and I guess this is part of it. I keep thinking she is following in the foot steps of her new friend. Which invited her to celebrate her divorce in miami last year. They didn't go but it was an awkward thing for her to ask me considering we were going to marriage counseling at the time. I think this all fits into my idea that she is going through a Mid-life crisis.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 03/26/12 04:50 PM
I do not believe in MLC. Poor behavior is poor behavior. Call it what you will...

Work on your goals this week. And make it your number one priority.

You have to get your mind strong so you can be strong for your boy.

So when you wavier look at a picture of him. And think about how important it is for him to have a loving honest parent in the future.

You need to keep up with not contacting your wife when ever she wants a weather report. State to her that you will only contact if its an emergency.

You need to stop asking her to return home. Just do not talk about it. And do not talk about the legal side with her as well. You just need to stay quiet on these things.

You need to concentrate on your goals and start to rebuild your life.

And round out your knowledge of everything that is going on around you.

Act 'As if' and 'smile and wave'.

These are how you counter venom and arguments. Stay out of them. Do not notice her appearance on the outside. And then push it out of your mind.

Remember. You are the catch here. A father who knows how to raise a son. That is a good quality to have. So be proud of it. Keep working on yourself.

And journal.

Do you know all the aspects of the marriage that you did not like ?
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 03/27/12 05:18 PM
Yesterday she came over and our son was asleep. She had mentioned that she went to Church on Sunday and that the sermon was all about me. So while she was here she asked about the bills. I told her I wasn't going to make any changes on the advice of my attorney and that I will comply with whatever the judge wants. I sat down at the computer and found the sermon online. She pulls up a chair and we watched it together. It was about Jacob and how he was a cheat and manipulator all his life until he lives up to God's desire for him and he changes his ways. Afterwards she told me that I was a liar and manipulator for our entire marriage. She also said that I was her darkness and she was washing her hands of me. I told her it was ironic that she was using the sermon to justify her breaking her vows. She said she is a good person and I don't respect women. She also said right now she is in hell but she would rather stay in hell than come back to me. Wow! I have never been so hurt. The only positive thing I could say about what happened is that I never told her anything negative or threw accusations at her. I stayed calm and left the house. In hindsight I know she baited me into an argument, but I didn't think it was going to turn out that way since she pulled up a seat and watched the sermon with me.

Our friends are telling me that everything she is saying about me is not true. When I ask them to be objective and truthful they tell me that they just don't see me that way.

So my lawyer wants me to get some character witnesses ready and to take pictures of our home. We should be in court next Monday for temporary orders. She should be getting served today or tomorrow. I'm getting ready for the venom that is going to come my way.

Her father called me Sunday evening. He is a good man and I admire him greatly. He told me that if I want to keep my family together I have to stay firm. To pray and stay faithful and in time I might get what I want. I was worried that my in-laws would see me in a negative light since I have not shared with them my point of view. I don't think it would be appropriate for me to reach out to them. It was a good feeling to know they are thinking about me and my son.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 03/27/12 08:52 PM
Well its a good thing you have worked on your issues. Ignore venom. Next time do not get sucked in. Just get up and walk away. She will figure it out eventually.

Also. If she come at you physically. Grab your son , leave the house and call the police. Do not even attempt to reason with her if she goes down that path. Have her removed for your safety , her safety and your sons.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 03/28/12 05:46 AM
So far I have been keeping up with my goals. I started making dinner again and I have been to the gym twice this week. I also keep applying for jobs.

After my gym class was over I decided to stay for the next one. I knew there was a chance my W might show up but I thought since she now lives on the other side of town it probably wouldn't happen. Plus, she had our son for the evening. She did show up and with her sister. After the venom she threw at me last time I saw her I was nervous but I tried to act "as if". She tried to be funny and said "we need to stop meeting this way." I said hello to both of them and we made small talk. She tried to tell me about her plans for after the divorce but I didn't engage. So it was a short sentence or two from her about moving into her parents house. Two things I noted were that she noticed I didn't have a mat and a weight for the class. She grabbed me both when she got hers. Also, they both set up right next to me even though there was plenty of space. I'm not putting too much meaning into it. I just found it curious since I supposedly ruined her life. I'm sure things are going to get a lot uglier when she sees the temporary orders my lawyer drew up. He is asking for custody, child support, spousal support, and residency.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 03/28/12 05:16 PM
That's good JC. And I agree with you not reading too much into the gym thing. Its good to see that. I am sure you would have done the same thing. As it is the normal and decent thing to do. Keep up with your goals and remember that being nervous is normal in this crazy moment. Sounds like you were a respectful gentleman during the whole time. smile

And good luck with the legal aspects. Learn that document inside and out. And read up on what is going to happen next. Just remember to never lose your cool. Nor be disrespectful. Walk away from the venom.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 03/29/12 12:41 AM
Today's been a hard day. My W came over to pick up Son. She said her lawyer will be talking to my lawyer tomorrow because she got served today. To quote her "It's on." Then she gathered his things and left.

I was expecting her to be furious. I must admit that I was hurt at her nonchalant attitude. As each milestone passes I keep hoping it will turn her around. First it was being away from home. Then spending a weekend without our son. And now being served. So far she is just as determined now as she was before. I read a story in a book called "I am second." It was about an affair. The part that really stuck with me was the wife's belief that signing the divorce papers would bring her happiness. As it turned out she felt nothing. What she expected to happen didn't.

I think she must have been upset. Maybe this is a new way of her to bait me into a fight. She knows that it upsets me very much and if she acts like it doesn't bother her then I will be hurt. I am proud to say that I only talked about our son as she got him ready. Of course, after she left I had a fit.

Today was also my last day with my personal trainer. She is such a great person. After we were done she told me she would keep scheduling me so long as no one else needed her. I thanked her and agreed to see her Friday. Even though I'm feeling depressed it's good to know that there are people out there who care about others.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 03/29/12 12:44 PM
Jc you gotta stop being afraid of Mrs. JC right. The legalities are to protect you and your son.

This is what she wants. So let her have it. You need to start thinking this. You need to start to thinking that her actions are consistent. Her path is consistent.

Then you need to continue to move in your path. Continue to be consistent in it. Continue to grow as a MAN and become the best MAN that you can be. Keep building your self respect. Keep being even headed. Keep being polite. Keep being respectful.

Continue to keep vindictiveness at bay.

If she wants to be a part of that path. She will start to pursue you and do what it takes.

So keep working on your self and build your self respect.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 04/05/12 04:27 AM
It's been almost a week since I've posted.

So far things are still a roller coaster. One minute my W is acting civil and the next she is sending me angry text messages. We had to push our court date back a week since her lawyer was not ready. All attempts by me to negotiate before we go to court have not been well received. She will agree at first but then when she goes back to her lawyer she takes back every compromise we agreed to. I can say that I have been keeping my temper in check. Her negative attitude is getting worse. She now refuses to put any money into our checking account and is buying everything herself. Which means I have to pay for my own gas and such. Someone a few post back said she was trying to starve me of my lawyer funds and I agree.

I wanted to get an opinion on something that happened today. She called me about 20 minutes before she was to pick up our son and told me she was going to be late. I had a gym class that I would have been very late to if I stayed and waited for her. So I told her I would take my son with me and she could pick him up after because she called me too late and did not make other arrangements. She asked where I was going and I said I had "plans." I don't feel I have to report to her when and where I am going since she made this clear to me when it came to her. So she became angry. I told her this is what divorce is like and she had to get used to it. I had a life and I wasn't going to sit around and wait for her. She threw it in my face that I was the one who filed for divorce, even though she was the one who kept asking for one and moved out.

So did I do the right thing? I took my son with me and I came back right after. She showed up a few minutes after we got home. I suppose I could have let her pick him up at the gym, but I would have had to leave the class and sign my son out. I am concerned that I might have acted out of anger. Especially since earlier in the day she told me she refuses to discuss a negotiation on the temporary terms. She wants to only discuss matters through our attorneys.

When I got home tonight I noticed she removed all of the pictures of us from around the house. When I asked her if she did she said yes and that "it is not healthy." Thoughts?

As far as my goals are concerned I have done a good job of following through. I went to the gym every weekday and twice on tuesdays. I also have kept looking for work. I did some yard work and the house is clean. I'm trying a new audiobook called "The unexpected legacy of divorce: the 25 year landmark study." I also went to a new church and enjoyed the sermon. Another positive thing is that I went for a physical and everything came out fantastic. My Doc showed me my blood work from a year ago and it was horrible. My cholesterol was high across the board. Well not this year! Everything was normal and I've lost 34 lbs since my last checkup. I was so happy I showed my wife the results. Of course she said "where's my credit" because she was the one who "forced" me to the gym. I told her I'll give her partial credit only because I did all of the work and she never stopped complaining that she had to force me to go.

Thanks for listening.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 04/05/12 05:02 AM
Hi JC. A word of advice. The next time. That plans change due to timing. Just say. What your doing. Then say that you will be home at such and such time and that she can arrive then. Then just end the conversation. Then just mute your phone. Do not say anything more. As Silence is what divorce is like. This is what she needs to experience.

Next. The next time she is not ready with the lawyers. Too bad. Press through the lawyer.

The pictures. Its her attacking you. And only you. Remember you are breaking up. These are things that happen. Part of the spite. Part of the venom. Only you can ignore it. Only you can just let it go.

So keep on with GAL. Keep on with getting your life back in order.

That is what you control.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 04/11/12 12:57 AM
Yesterday was our court hearing for temporary orders. I showed up with three character witnesses and she was by herself. We conferred with our attorneys present and came to an agreement on custody and visitation. We will split our time with our son in half and whomever had visitation for that day will reside in our home. That way our son doesn't have to go anywhere until the D is final. We had to go in front of the judge to argue about the bills. I had tried to negotiate before the hearing but she wouldn't have it. In the end the judge made me pay three of my own bills and she has to pay $500 per paycheck in spousal support. She is also responsible for the rest of the bills. It was more than I was expecting! So beginning tomorrow I must leave the house for 5 days straight. It is going to be rough but I knew I couldn't stay here forever.

The relationship with my W is very strained. The last few days she hasn't said a word to me as we changed possession of our son. However, her roller coaster behavior was continuing before that. One minute she is pleasant and flirting the next she is telling me I am dominating her and she hates me. I continue to be as nice as possible. Except that I made a mistake. She came over one night and demanded that she be allowed to spend the night with our son. So when I came home she was in the shower and her purse was laying out. I confess I snooped. I didn't go through it all, but I did find something that disturbed me. It was a paper insert for birth control pills. A week before she left me she ordered the pills, but when I went to pick them up the Dr. never sent in the script. So she must have had to call the Dr. again and have it filled. I assume it was after she walked out because she never told me she filled it. So now my mind is going crazy thinking about it because I already had my suspicions.

So far I've slowed down on looking for a job. I'm trying to push through the depression but it is hard. I'm just afraid of more change in my life. I feel like I don't have control over anything.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 04/11/12 03:14 PM
JC. You need to think deep down inside if that is a game changer.

Only you can make that choice.

And when you do. Work towards a point where your calm and can think about it again.

You do have control. Over yourself.

You need to have a stable place to live when your not with your boy.

You need to work on yourself.

You need to improve yourlife.

The spousal support. You need to see how it is affected if you get a job.

And you need to keep to the temporary visitation order. Do not give up any of your time.

You will need to set boundaries here for her and for you.

Only contact her when it is an emergency.

Only communicate with her when it is an emergency.

As you need quiet and peace to calm down and let your emotions run their course.

So next time.

Say.

I have decided that it would be best in my interests that we follow the visitation rights to the letter. If you have an issue where you cannot take care of our son please let me know in advance.

Then leave it at that.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 04/11/12 06:17 PM
Thanks for the advice. It is always welcome and appreciated. I am going to move into a spare bedroom at my friends house. I think it is the best option right now because he lives alone and works at night. I think alone time will do me some good. I want to spend that time putting in as many resumes as possible and going to a new temp agency. Plus, he is more removed from the situation then my family. Right now the advice I've been getting has been more hostile to my W. I think it is because they see how hurt I am by all this and it is affecting them was well.

One question. When you say only have contact if there is an emergency. Does that mean to resist calling or texting to see how my son is doing?
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 04/11/12 08:00 PM
I cannot stress. Document everything. Document every application, every interview.

Document each time you get any hassles following the schedule. Each time either of you have to switch times and the reason why.


To answer your question.

You both need to come to an agreement on when to ask about your son. As he is 2 years old he is not really going to be able to communicate everything to you. So most of this communication is really between the two of you.

You and your wife need to experience going a few days without knowing. As this is the path she decided to take. So why not let her experience this path.

I am not saying to be an a55 or anything. But you have to limit your time. As it resets the clock for the both of you.

It will be tough. But during that time away. Work on yourself. Journal.

Your son will be fine with either of you. This is something you will both have to learn.

Calling and talking all the time will only confuse everyone. And upset the child.

So limit it to emergencies.

This is the reality your wife says she wants. So let her experience it.

Think of it not being hostile but showing tough love and the experience of loss.

She needs to feel the loss of her son and husband so she can begin to understand what her choice has done to the family. Failure of this allows her to follow her path without experiencing the consequences of her choices.

It will be tough. But I think it will be the right choice to come to an agreement with her on contact while following the schedule. Then stick to it.

I would do all this communication in writing. As all future communication as well.

Document everything.

It is so important.

Now I have a question for you.

Can you list the advice that you think is hostile to your wife.

And can you look it over and question if it is one of the following.

1. Hostile to your wife.
2. Hostile to your wife's wellbeing.
3. Hostile to your wife's actions.
4. Hostile to your wife's ability to get what she wants.
5. Hostile to your wife's thoughts on how things should be.
6. Hostile to yourself.

Then really think about it. You may see that some of advice that bother's you the most affect # 4,5

If its 1,2,6 then you do not follow that advice.
Posted By: Snowman Re: looking for hope - 04/12/12 05:45 AM
JC-I have read through most of your stitch and first want to say hang in there buddy. Our stitches are not the same but they are similar in ways. I know the frustrations of sharing your S and the emotional roller-coaster that you are on as I'm on it as well.

You are making great progress. Listen to Chatterbug and others on their advice. You need to detach from your W and let her experience the new path she has chosen. Trust me I know how hard it is as I'm still working on it myself.

My S is 2 nearly 3 and dealing with our whole situation/pending D. My W frustrates me sometimes with her random calling to talk to our S which confuses him. I need to set boundaries myself and so do you. Hang in there, work on you, and GAL. Your S will be fine with you and with her. You know deep down inside you both love him.

YOUR ARE NOT ALONE. We are all here to help and provide support from a real perspective of going through it or have already gone through it. Take care.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 04/15/12 04:48 AM
Things are going okay. I've spent the past 4 days outside our home and I am having to adjust. My W called me 2 days ago to ask me where some stuff was in our house. I kept my answers brief. Yesterday she sent me a picture of our son finishing his dinner which he never does. Then today she text me asking how I was doing and if I wanted to see our son. This is strange behavior for her. I went back and checked her previous text and she has not not sent me a pic of him in over a month, let alone a text asking how I was doing. Each time I didn't respond. I am following the advice here and trying to show her what it is like to lose her husband. This is hard because I really miss them both. Even when my wife is angry at me I get something from her interacting with me. I am so desperate for attention from her I will even take the negative interactions.

Tomorrow I am taking a short trip out of town. I think it will do me some good. My buddy wants to go to see Joel Osteen.

When I go back home to switch places with my W I plan on being pleasant. I'm curious what she is going to ask me or if she will even talk to me. Thanks for the advice everyone.
Posted By: LIO Re: looking for hope - 04/15/12 05:35 AM
JC:
I've read through your thread and I am completely impressed with your restraint. I aim to be that way as well.

Did the judge say that you had to move out of the house while W had visitation? Although at least you won't be at home while your W is there to rely on you as a 'nanny', but what is to stop her from going through all your belongings?
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 04/15/12 01:50 PM
Jc. The replying back. The goal here is to get to a point where you can communicate without emotions.
Be straight and too the point.
Be civil , polite and respectful.
No bull. No pressuring.
Just communicating.

You do not have to just completely ignore all her communications.

Just the ones that try to drag you into a fight, legal or talk about the relationship.

Your setting the groundwork for communication later.

She will figure it out and when she does you will see a change in her communication.


You can reply back if you want, you waited.

A simple. "Thanks for the picture. Hungry little guy. Give him a huge hug. Hope you two are having great day. See you on ______ . "
Then go about your day.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 04/15/12 01:58 PM
You will figure out the timing of communication. It just takes some courage to be calm. And learn to communicate when your ready.

When in doubt. Follow the 24 hour rule.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 04/16/12 01:04 PM
This morning is my first day back in the house. I will be her for two days and then we trade off again. This weekend I will have him for 5 straight days.

I was inspired by my trip to see Joel Osteen. It was a great sermon. I tried to be as positive as possible and to be thankful for the blessings in my life.

When I saw my W this morning I said Good Morning. We spoke quite a bit while she was getting ready for work. I told her it was good to see her and she said thank you. She told me about her time with him and she said it was great. He didn't ask for me and I told her if she was trying to hurt me and she said no. She said he only asked for me when she was getting after him. She asked if he asks for her and I said yes of course especially at night when he expects you home. She told me she does not like our current visitation schedule and will ask her attorney to change it. I did not respond to talk about our D. She said she is going to have a hard time when I have him for my 5 days and that she will have to come over and visit him. I just shook my head and she said she has the right to come over and stock the fridge. I said that is fine but we might not be here. I can see that she is going to have a hard time being separated from him. I wish she would see this as a reason to try reconciliation but I don't think so. It just seems like more cake eating. I don't know what visitation schedule she imagines would be more to her liking. There is only one way to see our S everyday and that would be to stay married.

She also mentioned that she saw my mother for a few minutes. My mom told he she was on her way to my nephews baseball tournament. My W said if there was something like that going on she thought it was okay for me to ask her to take him. Even if it was her visitation day. When I think of this offer plus her text asking me if I wanted to see our Son this weekend I think she may be feeling overwhelmed. Remember I was a stay at home dad and she does not have as much experience as me let alone patience.

We had some more small talk and I smiled the entire time. I miss her so much I just wanted to grab her and give her a hug. She joked some more and smiled before she left. I joked about her sexy shoes and she showed them off to me.

Our final court date is set. She mentioned it to me and I told her yes I was aware my execution date has been set. The only thing I can do right now is to keep looking for work and to make the best of it. After staying at friends and family homes this week it makes me more determined to find work. There is no way that I want to drag my son with me to different homes when I have my visitation. My lawyer is going to try to get me child support. My W makes good money and if she paid me support I would be able to get an apartment quickly.
Posted By: HollyAnn Re: looking for hope - 04/17/12 11:46 AM
Originally Posted By: jc180
This morning is my first day back in the house. I will be her for two days and then we trade off again. This weekend I will have him for 5 straight days.

I was inspired by my trip to see Joel Osteen. It was a great sermon. I tried to be as positive as possible and to be thankful for the blessings in my life.

When I saw my W this morning I said Good Morning. We spoke quite a bit while she was getting ready for work. I told her it was good to see her and she said thank you. She told me about her time with him and she said it was great. He didn't ask for me and I told her if she was trying to hurt me and she said no. She said he only asked for me when she was getting after him. She asked if he asks for her and I said yes of course especially at night when he expects you home. She told me she does not like our current visitation schedule and will ask her attorney to change it. I did not respond to talk about our D. She said she is going to have a hard time when I have him for my 5 days and that she will have to come over and visit him. I just shook my head and she said she has the right to come over and stock the fridge. I said that is fine but we might not be here. I can see that she is going to have a hard time being separated from him. I wish she would see this as a reason to try reconciliation but I don't think so. It just seems like more cake eating. I don't know what visitation schedule she imagines would be more to her liking. There is only one way to see our S everyday and that would be to stay married.

She also mentioned that she saw my mother for a few minutes. My mom told he she was on her way to my nephews baseball tournament. My W said if there was something like that going on she thought it was okay for me to ask her to take him. Even if it was her visitation day. When I think of this offer plus her text asking me if I wanted to see our Son this weekend I think she may be feeling overwhelmed. Remember I was a stay at home dad and she does not have as much experience as me let alone patience.

We had some more small talk and I smiled the entire time. I miss her so much I just wanted to grab her and give her a hug. She joked some more and smiled before she left. I joked about her sexy shoes and she showed them off to me.

Our final court date is set. She mentioned it to me and I told her yes I was aware my execution date has been set. The only thing I can do right now is to keep looking for work and to make the best of it. After staying at friends and family homes this week it makes me more determined to find work. There is no way that I want to drag my son with me to different homes when I have my visitation. My lawyer is going to try to get me child support. My W makes good money and if she paid me support I would be able to get an apartment quickly.


Stick to the court-ordered visitation plan.
Stop asking her if she is trying to hurt you. This shows neediness, which in turn, shows weakness. Not attractive.
Stop giving her compliments about "sexy shoes" and such. Shows weakness and pursuing. Not attractive.
But for her actions, none of this would be happening and the quicker she sees what divorce and the loss of you feels like, the better. Shows strength. Attractive.
She
Posted By: HollyAnn Re: looking for hope - 04/17/12 11:51 AM
Damned nonexistent editing feature!
She will see weakness in statements like this: "I told her yes I was aware my execution date has been set." She wants out, let her out. Attractive.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 04/17/12 01:06 PM
I didn't realize how much I'm still pursuing her. This is extremely hard because it requires going against my own nature. My therapist told me that I still want to please her and her nasty words left an indelible mark on me. By being nice to her and trying to please her i am trying to prove her criticisms wrong and show her I am a nice guy. She told me that is exactly what she wants me to do and it reinforces her attitudes about me instead of the opposite. For example my W in marriage counseling complained that now I am "perfect". The changes she demanded and used as as reasons for wanting to leave actually occurred. In essence I became the man she wanted but now she resented me for giving her what she wanted. It was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. My therapist said I need to consider the fact that their might have been anything I could have done to save the marriage, that this is entirely her doing. This puts me in a difficult situation because my nature is to be nice. I didn't think it was a big deal to tell her it is nice to see you or that I missed her and my son. I am trying and before I came into the house I did try to prepare my words. When I see her my heart fights my brain and sometimes he loses. I recognize I still have the attitude that I can fix the marriage if only she would listen to my words. This is something I am going to try harder on. A friend told me recently that "your Wife can't betray you anymore, the only one who can betray you now is yourself".
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 04/17/12 01:08 PM
*might NOT have been anything...
Posted By: HollyAnn Re: looking for hope - 04/17/12 04:17 PM
Originally Posted By: jc180
I didn't realize how much I'm still pursuing her. This is extremely hard because it requires going against my own nature. My therapist told me that I still want to please her and her nasty words left an indelible mark on me. By being nice to her and trying to please her i am trying to prove her criticisms wrong and show her I am a nice guy. She told me that is exactly what she wants me to do and it reinforces her attitudes about me instead of the opposite. For example my W in marriage counseling complained that now I am "perfect". The changes she demanded and used as as reasons for wanting to leave actually occurred. In essence I became the man she wanted but now she resented me for giving her what she wanted. It was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. My therapist said I need to consider the fact that their might have been anything I could have done to save the marriage, that this is entirely her doing. This puts me in a difficult situation because my nature is to be nice. I didn't think it was a big deal to tell her it is nice to see you or that I missed her and my son. I am trying and before I came into the house I did try to prepare my words. When I see her my heart fights my brain and sometimes he loses. I recognize I still have the attitude that I can fix the marriage if only she would listen to my words. This is something I am going to try harder on. A friend told me recently that "your Wife can't betray you anymore, the only one who can betray you now is yourself".


I don't care what she says at the moment, or what she requests of you. She fired you by asking for a D.
The changes you made are yours, do not seek her approval by trying to point them out. I bet that advice is in the DB books.
Make the changes and they will speak for themselves.
Women do not respect a man they can boss around. Not attractive.
Women love a challenge, and your changes are knocking her off balance a bit. Keep up the good work. Attractive!
Posted By: Snowman Re: looking for hope - 04/18/12 04:39 AM
Hey JC, I know exactly where you are at. I remember wanting to just grab my W and hug her as well as incessantly complimenting her. It is hard resist but you can stop this. Heck, I caught myself doing it yesterday when my W came over to sign our tax returns. I asked about her hair and was going to compliment it and realized in my head what am I doing, stopped it. My W also threw me for a loop with the clothes she was wearing but yet again the DBer's set me straight.

I tried to do the house exchange thing with my house at the beginning of my stitch but my W put an end to it after one week but it was not court ordered. Keep strong with your boundaries as your W does need to learn how divorced life is. I think my W is loving the divorced life personally but who knows, not a mind reader.

HollyAnn-(Sarcasm) Why do woman have to be so tricky. They don't respect a man they can boss around. Woman love a challenge. I assume this is different from one woman to the next. I have seen woman who love to boss men around. I don't like it personally but I swear there are other that do smile.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 04/18/12 03:34 PM
Another way to think of it JC is that the problems in the past.

You are dealing with it by improving yourself and working on your communication skills.

Your wife is dealing with it by asking for a divorce.

You need to realize that.

It is not fair for you to have to own all the issues. Nor is it healthy.

Nor is it fair for her to keep airing the laundry on past issues.

Nor is it healthy for you to keep believing what she is saying.

You saw the problems and started to work on them.

She saw problems and her way of dealing with it was to step out of the marriage.

Her Choice.

You have to stop validating her words to you about your "problems in her eyes". You heard them already and acted upon it.

STOP BEING NICE. IT IS A CHEESE-LESS TUNNEL.

Be civil and respectful.

You keep on this path and you end up owning all the issues , improve yourself and get a wife back who took zero blame for anything that happened in the marriage. Failed to improve herself and has successfully rewritten history to match her "feelings". She has all the proof she needs that her choices were correct because you continue to validate them.

No More Mr. Nice Guy. Go buy that today and read it.
If you have it.

Read it again.
Posted By: HollyAnn Re: looking for hope - 04/18/12 04:21 PM
Originally Posted By: Snowman
Hey JC, I know exactly where you are at. I remember wanting to just grab my W and hug her as well as incessantly complimenting her. It is hard resist but you can stop this. Heck, I caught myself doing it yesterday when my W came over to sign our tax returns. I asked about her hair and was going to compliment it and realized in my head what am I doing, stopped it. My W also threw me for a loop with the clothes she was wearing but yet again the DBer's set me straight.

I tried to do the house exchange thing with my house at the beginning of my stitch but my W put an end to it after one week but it was not court ordered. Keep strong with your boundaries as your W does need to learn how divorced life is. I think my W is loving the divorced life personally but who knows, not a mind reader.

HollyAnn-(Sarcasm) Why do woman have to be so tricky. They don't respect a man they can boss around. Woman love a challenge. I assume this is different from one woman to the next. I have seen woman who love to boss men around. I don't like it personally but I swear there are other that do smile.


No, it's not all that different from woman to woman.
They may appear to like it, but women do not respect a man they can lead around by the nose.
Posted By: adinva Re: looking for hope - 04/18/12 05:34 PM
Quote:
PEOPLE do not respect a PARTNER they can lead around by the nose.

Fixed.

I have a thing about statements about "women" where we're lumped together and given crazy attributes. I'm pretty different from "women" I've heard about. I say what I mean and I mean what I say, I don't get emotional or irrational around my period, I talk straight and want to be talked straight to. I open my own doors. I carry my own boxes. I love masculine men who are confident. I grit my teeth when I see men trying to understand "women" through simplistic aphorisms. It's insulting.

I'll get off my soapbox and let you get back to your discussion, but if you think about women as people you won't go wrong.

smile
Posted By: HollyAnn Re: looking for hope - 04/18/12 10:23 PM
Thanks, that was very patronizing.
But, tough [censored].
I know exactly what I mean and there are definite differences between men and women.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: looking for hope - 04/18/12 10:34 PM
wink
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 04/26/12 01:07 AM
Hi JC you doing well ?
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 04/26/12 11:10 PM
I'm still here. Since last time my W had to go through her first long stretch without our son. I was guessing that she would call me or text during that time because she said she was dreading not seeing him for that long. I was wrong. She didn't call once during the five days. In fact she the only time we talked was when we switched visitation. It was about her lost keys. We will not see each other for 10 days because when we switch visitation again she sent her parents. Of course I was hoping this time apart from our son would have an effect on her, but nothing. Every new milestone just drives her further away from me. I saw that she created a new Facebook page. First thing I noticed was that she changed her last name to a hyphenated maiden and married name. This really bothered me because it is something that her BFF did recently. She is the woman I believe my wife is emulating. The BFF said she wanted to regain her old identity while staying connected to her children so she hyphenated her name. I guess my wife is doing the same thing. This woman also recently got a divorce and she never had anything positive to say about me either. I know my wife is using her as an example of the life she wants to have. It blows my mind because my W is totally acting like a new person. Also, her BFF offered to introduce her to cop friend of hers back when we were trying to reconcile. I got angry when W told me ,but she said BFF was only joking. I know that I cannot put blame on anyone else but my W for her actions, but it kills me that she used to criticizes her friend and is now doing everything she looked down on her for. I also saw a pic of my wife at a gym class on the gyms Facebook page. She is smiling and posing with everyone. It made me sad that here I am in misery and she is GAL. I should use that for motivation.

I have been trying to move ahead and it is very hard. Moving in and out of our house is getting tiresome. Lately I have slipped into depression and bad behavior. I know that the bad behavior is directed at my wife. I want to hurt her indirectly so I fooled around. It only made me feel worse. I think it was also a way of feeling in control and trying to relieve the loneliness. Through this D i took pride in having the moral high gound. That i did everything to save my marriage, even now. Yet, i went and did this stupid thing. Maybe its a sign I'm giving up? Or maybe I'm just losing my mind. I guess feeling she is having an OM is taking its toll. Not to mention the nightmares and lack of seep. I want my wife back but I don't see any progress at all. I finished the divorce remedy book and it is helping. I just wish I read it before she moved out and I filed for divorce.

I saw my therapist today. She said I still have hope for my marriage. I do but is it healthy? You see I have this tremendous ability to take abuse. I joke with her that I take a licking and keep on ticking. I can't even stay angry at my W. Not even after all the nasty things she has said. I still am trying to be the nice guy. By the way I did buy the "no more mr. Nice guy" book. I need to start it soon.

I tried to negotiate with my W for the final divorce orders but she refused all of my proposal. Even after I reminded her that during the temp orders I offered her a lot less than she wound up paying. She is either very greedy or really hates me. Both? I am thinking I am going to stop negotiating because it is more of the same mr. Nice guy behavior from me. By offering to take less than my fair share I am trying to prove to her I am not the liar, cheat, and manipulator she accused me of being.

Thanks for the help. I wish I could buy all of you an ice cold beer for lending me your ears.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 04/28/12 03:26 PM
I wanted to post a list of the books I got since the start of this ordeal.

Read:
*The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country's Foremost Relationship Expert
*The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love That Lasts
*The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce: A 25 Year Landmark Study
*The Divorce Remedy: The Proven 7-Step Program for Saving Your Marriage

Waiting to read:
*No More Mr. Nice Guy!
*Every Day a Friday: How to Be Happier 7 Days a Week
*The Road Less Travelled: A New Psychology of Love, Traditional Values and Spiritual Growth
*Hope for Today Bible
*Ten Stupid Things Couples Do to Mess Up Their Relationships
*How Could You Do That?!: The Abdication of Character, Courage, and Conscience
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 04/28/12 03:37 PM
Originally Posted By: LIO
JC:
I've read through your thread and I am completely impressed with your restraint. I aim to be that way as well.

Did the judge say that you had to move out of the house while W had visitation? Although at least you won't be at home while your W is there to rely on you as a 'nanny', but what is to stop her from going through all your belongings?


Our visitation agreement states that whomever has visitation stays in the home. It was a mutual agreement that the judge signed off on.

As far as going through my belongings. I keep all of my paperwork with me and the computer is password protected. If she snoops the only thing she will find is self help books and family pictures. All of which might do her some good to look at.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 04/30/12 03:42 PM
JC. You gotta stop watching what she is doing. IT will just drive you nuts.

As long as there is an OM. You do not want this woman in your life.

You donot settle for anything less than a fully committed relationship that is between two partners who are equal in statue.

You do not settle for a woman who does not love you for being you.

You do not settle for being second.

You messed up.

So acknowledge. Pick yourself up. Correct bad habits. Keep moving forward. Keep working on yourself.

Keep building self-esteem.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 05/01/12 01:29 AM
Okay so today I got some good news and bad news. The bad news is that after 3 interviews at one place I didn't get the job. They were really impressed by me but they had a candidate that was transferring from within the company. The supervisor I spoke with suggested I apply for another position and that he would put in a good word for me. That made me feel better. I am looking into the position right now and I will apply for it.

The good news is that I got called in for a union job. It is for 5 days in another city. It pays well and the hotel and travel cost will be paid for. The down side is that it is during my visitation weekend. So I will have to leave my son with my mother for 4 days. I see it as something I have to do. I don't want to of course but I know that he will be okay and I arrange for some play dates while I am away. That way he doesn't get bored staying at home with grandma all day. I don't plan on telling my wife about the job. I think if I do she will use it against me in court. Maybe try to point out that I have no problem leaving my son for days at a time. This situation is not ideal but I take comfort in knowing that it is my W that put me in this position. Otherwise I would never leave for so long.

I also got a second interview with another company. I really like this one because I would have weekends off and get out at 8pm at the latest. They told me to set aside 2 hours just in case I pass the first interview I might be sent to the second immediately after.

After I see my therapist this week I plan on putting aside my bad behavior. It is not something I want to dwell on and I want it to be a lesson learned and move on. I want to refocus on being the MAN I know I can be. I think going to work this weekend will help me feel like I am on the right track. I will miss my son but I haven't worked outside the house in years.

Today I checked my W facebook page and saw some new pictures that made me upset. I really need to stop doing that. So one of my new goals is to stop snooping. It only makes me upset and it doesn't move me forward. It is another cheese-less tunnel. I want to be more solution orientated.

It appears that my wife has a pattern now. The last few times I have seen her she has not spoken to me at all. Today was no different. We haven't seen each other in 10 days and she did not speak one word to me. She just handed me our son and walked out the door. And when it comes to text and email she keeps it very business like. I think this is her way of coping. She has always had problems expressing her emotions and this is no different. I feel sorry for her because she has not grown at all through this experience. She just continues to put up walls in her mind and eventually they will fall and rush her with emotions. That is one of the reasons for the damage to our marriage. She kept everything inside while I ignored the signs. I truly believe that it will take years before she admits she made a mistake by leaving the marriage. It's not something I am hoping for or wishing for. It is almost like a foregone conclusion. I know this woman and she has done it before. She will hold in traumatic experiences for years then all at once they come out unexpectedly.

I was always there for her when these things came out. My therapist described me as her emotional crutch. She believes it was one of the reasons we were attracted to each other. She was looking for someone she could trust and coax out her emotions and I was looking for someone to make me the center of attention. Now I know better. To bad she doesn't. I wonder how many times in second marriages do we repeat the same mistakes?
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 05/01/12 05:02 AM
Hi Jc. That is good news on the job front. A beginning.

Send that supervisor and the interviewees a thank you note. You made a good impression. You never know where it will lead too. Life is long my friend.

It is also good to not say anything to your wife on the job front. I would make sure before you leave for the out of state job that you do not have to legally require to give your wife any info. Just to be safe.

Your bad behaviour. If it is something to truly set aside. Do not bring it up. A waste of time and money. Stuff happens.

Allow that moment to build your self esteem if that was your goal. And move on. Put it away.

You really only have to talk about it if you get in piercing. Else its mute... And has no ramifications on your current Reality.

You know what I am going to say on the wife's facebook..... I know its a tough one.

Ignore but record the pattern that you are thinking.... This is you dealing with post traumatic stress disorder.

Only in time will you discover that it actually is a pattern.

And business like. Yes. That is how it will become when there is nothing worth fighting about or getting the upper hand on.

Your goal is to keep it business like as you know she will change it when there is something she wants.

P.S.

Stop the mind reading.


As for second marriages ?

Depends on how you grow from this one.

The first one is still not over.

Remember this one can begin again if equality is restored and you both learn , heal and grow.

Keep working on leading by example.
Posted By: 2chiquitos Re: looking for hope - 05/01/12 05:19 AM
jc. about her pattern. don't look too much into it, just store it for later. continue acting as if.

and STOP SNOOPING!
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 05/02/12 04:30 AM
I'm getting ready for tomorrow. It is a big day. I really hope to impress the interviewer. This job would be a perfect fit for me. I really need to work not only for my divorce case but to feel value and in control again. I know that it is a big problem for me because I have too much free time. I am trying to GAL as much as possible but without work I have a lot of time to let my thoughts run away from me.

I am really nervous about leaving my son with my mom. I know she is more than capable of taking care of him. However, I am so bonded to him it is going to be rough. I also am nervous about W finding out I left town. I will only be 3 hours away but I know she will overreact if she finds out. Even though in my mind this is part of what divorce is. When I have him he is my responsibility and as long as I leave him in capable hands it is not a problem.

My S behavior is starting to change. He is more clingy than before. For example at day care he used to just take a couple minutes to adjust and then join the group. Now he won't let me go and I have to sneak away. He also is more fussy now. I'm not sure what it is but I suspect it is separation anxiety. This makes me feel guilty about leaving him for 5 days. I know that I have to because if I don't get a job by the court date I will look bad. At least this way I can point to my interviews and this part time work as proof I am trying.

I thought as time went by this pain would get easier. I hope this last week is just a temporary backslide. I have a goal to do three things this week. First is to not look at her FB page. Second is to count my blessings whenever I start to dwell on negative thoughts. And third is to make a five year plan that focuses on living a single life. I feel like if I can do these three simple things I can start some forward momentum again. I've been thinking about trying the telephone coaching sessions. I want to feel like I exhausted every avenue to try and fix my marriage. This out of town job feels like a blessing and I think I might invest some of what I make in counseling. Call it planting a seed.

I may be feeling down but when I see my son I know it's not all about me anymore. He gave me strength through cancer and I know he will give me strength through this.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 05/03/12 12:52 AM
Got a job offer today! I just need to pass the background check and drug test.. Which should be no problem. It is a great company and I really impressed the supervisors. what a huge relief.

I cant leave my son with my mom after all. So I decided to call my wife and ask to switch weekends. She said it was fine so long as she gets him on mothers day. Now I can go work out of town for a few days and not have to worry about him. It was a nice feeling not having her interrogate me. She didn't ask any questions at all.

My therapist told me she feels I am feeling unnecessary guilt. In her opinion I am already divorced because my wife has totally cut me off. she also feels I am feeling guilty because I may be moving on inside my head. I know that even though I am in misery I want to hold on to what I have. No matter how much it hurts or is not healthy. I need to shift gears and let the hurt go. That is the only way I can grow into the man I want to be. Maybe that is the way I can be more attractive to my wife. God knows she just expects the worse from me. I'm going to read the no more mr. Nice guy book on my down time at work this weekend.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 05/03/12 07:40 PM
Congrats.

Remember you grow for yourself.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 05/05/12 08:09 PM
So the work trip was a bust. I only worked one day. While I was there I took my drug test and filled out my paperwork for the new job. Also, my attorney called to check the progress of my negotiations with my wife. I told him She does not want to discuss it with me and she wants to handle it in court. He said out original agree,ent obly took us through the temp hearing. So now I have to pay him another sum to for the final court date. My wife is definitely trying to starve me of my funds. I am almost broke and I was hoping that weekend job would have paid me for at least 4 days.

I have been keeping to my goals this week. No more snooping even though when i get sad I want to check her Facebook page. I also have to keep reminding my self to focus on the positive. But it is hard sometimes because instead of thinking about her moving on with her life and who she might be with I start daydreaming about reconsiliation scenarios. I imagine what will happen when she wants to stay married. I don't think either focus is healthy. I really need to focus more on me. I started my 5 year plan. I think it is looking good. I just need to think about it more.

Ive been second guessing some of my actions lately. I think when my wife texted how was I doing a few weeks ago I should have replied that same day. She also asked if I wanted to see my son. Could that have been an excuse to see me? Ever since then she has not spoken to me in person at all. I know I shouldn't mind read but I really wish I knew the right actions or words to bring us closer. This hopelessness is drowning me. I thought things were supposed to get easier with time. The "no more mr nice guy" book is good. Not all of it applies to me so far but it is early in the book.

I believe I am in the last resort technique. However how do I let her know I am GAL if she doesn't speak to me.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 05/07/12 06:10 PM
GAL is for you.
The space is for you.
This keeps you out of the drama.
This keeps you from the crumbs.
This keeps you from the gas lighting.

This allows you to focus on You.

Those second thoughts are part of the grieving cycle. Bargaining.
None of them would have made a difference. They are in the past.

All you can really do is work on you. Work on your plans.

Be an awesome father.

All this is for you.

Just think. If you got back with her tomorrow. As it is right now.

You would spend your years wondering if you were doing anything wrong. As you know the consequences of these actions. She leaves.

Your space.

This is for you to learn why and correct the lack of equality in your marriage.

Keep working towards your goals.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 05/08/12 05:51 AM
I saw my wife today when we switched visitation. I had asked her in the past for a copy of our tax return and my wedding ring back. She told me she will get back to me on the tax return and that she will give me back the ring after our court hearing because she doesn't want me to wear it to court. I was angry at that. When she left I knew something was up and I checked the house out. Turns out some photo albums were missing. I called her up and asked her what she took. She claimed it was only her pre-marriage photos. I reminded her that the court order stipulated that no one was to take any photos or destroy them. She then told me I have photos on my computer that she cannot access because of my password. She said she didn't want me to destroy them. I thought that was ironic since I am the one trying who didn't want the marriage to end. I told her not to worry about me because she was the one trying to erase the past. So she told me "I guess this is an issue between us" and that was the end of the conversation.

Later on I went outside to bring in the trash can and check to see if it still had trash in it. Right on top of the trash was a bunch of pictures and gifts I had given her. One was an anniversary gift, a box with a picture of all three of us. I was so angry I texted her and told her I noticed what she did. She said it was all her property and that I don't concern her and I was just bitter. I am really getting fed up with her behavior.

I went to my attorney today to give him his payment. We discussed what happened and he is going to contact her attorney and reminder her of the restraining order against damaging property. He also told me in his experience her behavior is typical. Only it is usually the man and in this scenario I am the home maker. He told me he was not surprised that she didn't bring any character witnesses to the trial. Apparently the "man" in this type of case doesn't want anyone still in his life to know about his behavior. He also said they always try to screw you out of any money. It is a power thing for them. They see you as the enemy and they don't want to lose. This falls in line with what I have been reading about MLC. She is just not the woman I knew. She absolutely hates me and looks down on me.

Through all of this I have tried to keep the faith. I am running out of steam. I think i am reaching the point where my love for her is starting to no longer cloud my thinking. Some of the excuses I made for her in the past are no longer valid in my mind. I have to accept that she is not a good person. For so long I rationalized her behavior. Things from the past just keep popping up in my head and I am seeing them in a new light. After all who wants to admit to themselves that they married someone with serious flaws. Because I love her so much I explained everything away. I took responsibility away from her and placed it on myself. But now I ask myself why should I do that now? Like someone said earlier, she fired you as her husband.

My therapist has helped me realize some things about myself. One of them is that I have abandonment issues. My mother left my dad when I was 13. She moved in with the OM and his kids. From that day on I didn't see her for over a year. In fact I was the one who made contact with her first. So here I was having to take care of my younger brother. A crash course in home making while my dad got drunk and cried every day for months. Plus, my dad was not a very nice guy to begin with. He told me I was worthless and helpless since I could remember. No wonder I accept what my wife tells me about myself. When she says I am a liar, a cheat, and a manipulator there is a part of me that believes it. It must be true because it came from someone that is supposed to love me and care for me. But the logical part of me knows better now. I know that just like my dad she is projecting her own insecurities on me plus she is using her words to control me. LOL, I just realized something. Words mean a lot to me. I was always the communicator in our marriage. No wonder I got my bachelors in English lit!

You are right chatterbug. I don't want her back. At least not the person she is right now. I've been conditioned since childhood to be the peacemaker. I'm also use to verbal abuse. So if I went to therapy a long time ago to deal with those issues why would I invite them back into my life now? What would be the point? That would be a major backslide. During my first session the therapist asked why I was there. I said it was because I didn't want to be like my Dad and I didn't want my son to have the same relationship to me that I had with him. I didn't want to be that angry guy. If I took her back now I would be putting myself right back into that scenario. My son deserves better than that. He deserves a father who is not afraid of his wife. Who is not willing to let himself be emasculated in order to keep the peace. A father who sees himself as a Man. That is one thing I've thought about myself forever, that I don't feel like a man. I feel like a child with the responsibilities of a man.

I feel like it's okay to be mad at her. I need to give myself permission to be angry at her. Maybe it's what I need to give me some perspective.

Thanks for listening.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 05/09/12 02:51 PM
You can be mad. You can be angry. But those thoughts are yours and yours alone to deal with. Do not make any choices out of anger. Use the anger to push yourself forward. Do not waste it.

Your childhood says tons about you. I see this.

You are able to get back on your feet.

You have spent a life of been chipped away at.

Since you are at the bottom right now.

Take advantage of it.

Keep building your foundations.

Trust. Communication. Boundaries. Respect.

Work on those four for yourself.

And build away.

This divorce is one of the biggest opportunities you will ever have in your life.

To make yourself into the man you want to be.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 05/11/12 05:32 PM
Well today I had another argument with my W. She still refuses to return my ring and I asked her where is my half of our tax return. It turns out she filled out the tax return and signed my name without my knowing. Normally we pay but this year we got a return. So sent her a text a few days ago and she ignored it. When I saw her this morning I asked for half of the refund because my funds are really low. She refused saying because she has to pay my medical bills it balances out. I told her that was B.S. and she doesn't get to make the rules. I also told her I didn't authorize her to sign my name to the return. She got angry and said "where is this coming from" I guess because I've been nice up until now it is coming as a shock to her. Every time I see her she is wearing new clothes. So it made me angry that here I am being treated like the hired help and she has no worries at all. So I lost it. I didn't call her any names or yell, but my tone was very angry. Her matter of fact attitude pushes my buttons. Especially when she treats this Divorce like one of her business deals. Where she wants everything and I get nothing. She was shocked at my attitude and when she left I told her she her treatment of me was disgusting. I told her tell me again how you are a good person? She replied, "what?". I said "you know, when you told me over and over how you are good person and I was a darkness in your life. and that you haven't had sex with anyone" Her reply was, "so it couldn't be that you were a bad partner?" I told her ,"so how is that birth control working out for you?" Her eyes got big and her jaw dropped. She said, "you know how I am. when I get drunk I get crazy". That was the last thing she said as she pulled out of the garage. She was just shaking her head in shock and mouthing "oh my god."

I know it was not a productive thing to do, but I did feel better. Sometimes I just want to not be stepped all over and made to feel like a scumbag. The day before I had a great therapy session. I really let it out and made some great progress. My feelings are starting to shift from trying to repair the marriage to defending myself and my son. Now I realize that she is the weak one. Everything negative thing she tells me is her projecting her own insecurities on me. I know I'm not a bad partner. I stayed by her side whenever she needed me. When I needed her after my friend died and I got cancer her attitude towards me changed. I never got the support I needed from her. Instead she blamed me for getting sick. Also, when she told me I failed my son it stung worse than anything she has ever said to me. I realize now that I was not the one who failed him. It was her! She broke our vows, she checked out of the marriage, and she left him behind. I stayed and worked on things. What kind of woman tells her husband he is a bad man, and a user then turns around and leaves without her son? She did that the first time she left too. Only that time her mom got mad at her and told her she couldn't leave her son.

It is sad that when I think of her I still love her with all my heart. Only when I see her in person those feelings go out the window. So the person I love is long gone. The woman who is left is not the person I married. She wouldn't even be someone I would want as a friend.
Posted By: jks Re: looking for hope - 05/11/12 08:48 PM
So sorry for what you're going through. I have recently had some major spouts of anger and have taken it out on my H. It feels good for a while and then I begin to feel remorseful. Things may be different for you because your W has been saying awful things to you. But making things ugly between the two of you could really put a strain on the future for your S. Just something to think about.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 05/11/12 11:04 PM
I am concerned about having a good co-parenting relationship with my stbx. However, I don't want to continue our current dynamic where I am the who carries all of the responsibility. How can we have a good post divorce relationship if she refuses to acknowledge her role in the divorce. All I hear from her is how she is a "good person" and I'm a darkness in her life. This just sets up an adversarial situation which puts my son in the middle. According to her current state of mind everything is my fault. Typical MLC behavior. Now what happens when we have a difference in opinion on what to do with our son when a situation occurs? Let me tell you I fully expect her to first blame me then put the responsibility to come up with a solution on me. since the begining she has not shown a true understanding of what divorce will be like. She has already indicated that she expects me to still be her emotional support by her behavior. How do I live in this situation where on one hand I'm liar, cheat and manipulator and on the other I'm a fantastic dad (all her words)?
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 05/15/12 04:12 PM
Mother's day was not so great. I knew I would be feeling bad because of all that has happened. My W came to pick up our son with her parents. I was surprised at what I saw. She keeps hitting the gym hard and it shows. In fact she used to come home late from work because she was obsessed with losing weight. Her style of clothes is totally different than what it used to be. She was dressed very sexy with high heels, skinny jeans, and a blouse that was open in the back. This was at 7 am! In contrast to this is her face. She was obviously crying either the night before in the morning. She has a bad reaction when she cries and it shows for days. I noticed she made a real effort not to let me see her face. She turned away whenever she past me. I spoke to her parents and they are friendly as usual. I really miss them. They are the total opposite of my loud family. I liked spending time with them because they were so laid back and friendly. My W just said a few words to me about bringing him back in the evening. Later in the day 2 relatives sent me text messages telling me Happy Mother's day. It is kind of a joke that I had the maternal instincts in the family. It used to bother me but now it doesn't. I see now that it is a compliment because I was the one who did double duty taking care of our son. Also, I think because it was two mothers that sent me the text it makes it more sincere.

Things are getting nastier on the D front. Now my W is asking to postpone the hearing in order to do a Social Study. When my attorney discussed this with her attorney he told her that I didn't have the funds to pay for it. She suggested that they use the tax refund that my wife is refusing to give me to pay for the study. Wow, that made me angry. It has been suggested in the past and I absolutely believe it that my W is trying to drain me of my funds. No money plus no lawyer equals me at her mercy. So her she signed my name to our tax return without my approval and is refusing to give me my half of the refund. I am really low on money right now and work doesn't start until June.

I am also worried about the job offer I got. First the lab had trouble with my drug screening and now the background check people had a problem with their computers losing my information. I keep praying that all these bumps in the road stop. At this point it feels like I have a dark cloud stuck over me.

So my attorney suggested that we go to court asap because the longer it takes the better it is for her. Also, the final hearing is a few days before my training is supposed to start. If the court day is moved I will be in a bind. I can't very well miss training days because I have to go to court. It is one of those situations where if you miss a day of training you are automatically let go. Another worry of mine is that she is hiding money or had moved her saving and 401k. Technically she could have done so before the temporary orders were in place. So I have two options. One is if we go to court soon it helps my custody case but doesn't allow adequate time for discovery. Two is if we postpone the case for discovery and the social study It hurts my custody argument but I go to court with a full accounting of our assets.

I told my attorney that I want to err on the side of a strong custody argument. My son means more to me than the money. Let my W satisfy her greed and let me have more time with my son. I've been reading in the MLC forum and money seems to be a big issue for the walk away spouse. For my wife I see it as a control issue. I think she sees it as a way to bend me to her will even though she wants me out of her life. It is such a strange dichotomy. Case in point, months ago when I told her she was forcing me to live on peoples sofas she pointed out that she wouldn't let me have our son until she approved of where I was living. When I told her I couldn't get a decent place until I had a job she told me, "if you ever need money I expect you to come to me first." Now that I think about it this fits in with her history of emasculating me.

Well, she has another thing coming. Thanks to this site, the DR book, and my family I am in a better frame of mind. I'm not afraid of the D anymore. I read on another persons thread some words that stuck with me, "you don't have to be married to keep loving someone." I still love her very much, but if she wants to go then let her go. That feeling of panic is almost faded away. I thought what in the world was I going to do without her. Now I know that I can keep loving her and holding out hope for our marriage while still GAL. She can't control that. Only I can. She told me once that I needed to forget her. Fine, say what you will but if I want to keep praying for the best then that's my choice.

Thanks everybody.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 05/16/12 10:59 PM
JC keep moving forward. Perhaps you should report the fraud to the IRS as well.

I do not know what to say about the custody vs discovery. Is the discovery something you can back at her over ? Especially if you tie in the Fraud she committed with the IRS. That you will have to get legal advice on. Out of my pay scale.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 05/18/12 12:08 AM
My W has filed for a continuance for the social study. We are going to argue against it but in all likelyhood it will be ordered. If that's the case we will ask for discovery and that she pay all the fees. Once again my attorney suggested they are dragging things out to drain my funds. So back to court I go. I wish I had a time machine to go back and tell my W how her future self is behaving. She would never believe it.

Saw my shrink today. It was a good session again. Lots to think about. One is why is my W postponing the D? Since the beginning she has been adamant about divorce. She never wanted to even try separation. She always wanted her "freedom". Also, why is she fighting so hard for full custody when I already agreed to joint? She always seemed to prefer going to the gym over coming straight home to see my son. It seems to me he would weigh down her freedom. I was the maternal one who stayed up late at night for feedings and when he was sick. Does she not remember that? I think this is all her way of punishing me. In the past when I asked her why we couldn't move on towards reconsiliation she told me "I think I just want to make you suffer". Well she is doing a great job.

I'm not sure I know what I'm doing anymore. I still love her and want to DB as much as possible but I don't see how it could even work. I hardly ever see her and when I do it is only for a few minutes in passing. She barely speaks to me. So how do I DB in this situation. I know GAL is for me but isn't part of it to show her that ive changed for myself and isn't that supposed to stir some feelings in her? At what point do you know that it is hopeless? When I told my therapist what she said when I confronted her about being on birth control she told me it sounds like she told you exactly what she has planned. That hurts so much. To think that she is already ready, willing, and able to jump into bed with whoever. What happened to my sweet conservative wife? I don't know what to believe. I still want to believe her so much when she tells me she hasn't slept with anyone. That was so long ago now. Who has she become?
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 05/18/12 01:00 AM
Actually JC I think she would believe it and would have adjusted herself to come down harder on you. Go for full custody. Go for as much child support and everything else you can get. The spearhead has a great article on this called Decoding the behaviour of american women. Its well worth the read.

How you db this. You fix yourself. Stop thinking about her. Her actions say all you need to know. The question you should be asking is why you want to be with a person who can do this to you and your son on a whim.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 05/18/12 01:02 AM
I just want to clarify.

She is the one who needs to change my friend. And earn your trust. Earn your respect. Earn your love.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 05/18/12 01:59 AM
I read the article. I have to say I don't entirely agree with the premise. I will think it over some more.

Why do I want to be with someone who can do this to my son and I on a whim? It's illogical. I am focused on the 16 great years and not the past almost 3 years of shameless behavior. I also know that I am not entirely blameless in the breakup and I have tremendous guilt for my son living in a broken home. Granted it was not my choice to end the marriage. But I was raised by parents who had an awful divorce and I fear having to relive that and for my son to experience that. I guess that after the divorce is final I will shift my thinking to creating as good of a co-parenting situation as I can. It's the finality of it all that is weighing down on me.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 05/29/12 04:36 PM
Well what a roller coaster weekend. I had to go to court last Thursday for a petition to have a social study done. While I was waiting for my lawyer my wife comes into the hallway and sit next to me. We talked for a few minutes about our son and caught up with each other. The judge decided that we would have a mediator and that there would be no social study.

On my way home I got a text from my wife congratulating me on getting a good job. Later on she asked me if I wanted to have lunch. So I was very confused. We hadn't spoken very much at all and now she wanted to have lunch. I suspected that she wanted to talk about the mediation and our visitation schedule.
Later she changed the plans and I met her at our home for lunch.
I let her set the tone and reminded myself of the 180 rules. It didn't take long for her to bring up our relationship. I validated her feelings and didn't offer any resistance. I told her that I couldn't disagree with anything she was saying. To be fair she wasn't attacking me or being aggressive. It was not what I expected.

We were both going to a ceremony at our sons daycare later in the day. So she asked me if I wanted to go shopping with them for some clothes. I of course said yes and so we went. It was nice spending time with them both and I think my son was acting more relaxed. As the time for the ceremony came near she asked if I wanted to go with them in one vehicle. I was conscious of not over staying my welcome and made that clear. She said she would like it if we all went together. The ceremony was cute and the kids sang songs. My in-laws were there and they were very nice, but they did have a confused look on their faces. I imagine I did as well. This was not what I was expecting considering we were just in court earlier in the day. Afterward we went and got dinner.

Our son fell asleep on the way home so we had time to talk some more. It was all very constructive and there was no heated exchanges. In fact I could tell she didn't want me to leave. So we decided I would stay and she would leave because the next morning was our day to switch custody. So she left. About 30 minutes later I heard the garage door opening and went to see what it was. She came back with a shy grin on her face! She said she had been missing me for days and on her way to her moms she thought "what am I doing? He is my husband" so she grabbed some clothes and came back home.

We spent the whole weekend together and even took a trip to the beach. I let her know my thoughts and what I needed from our relationship. She did the same. We both agreed the divorce came too fast and overwhelmed us both. She told me she feels different towards me, ready to commit to making it work. She knows it is going to be a bumpy road but she keeps telling me she is happy and she loves me.

So today I am going to call my lawyer and stop the divorce. She is going to do the same.
Posted By: LostIn407 Re: looking for hope - 05/29/12 04:59 PM
Wow! Great news!

I was feeling a little down today, but your post has lifted my spirits!
Posted By: RoRoinMD Re: looking for hope - 05/29/12 10:10 PM
Whoa! I must have missed this earlier. WOW!

I don't have any specific advice as I'm not where you are yet. I'd just say take it SLOOOOOWWWW!

But I'm happy things are working out for you and your W. We need more stories like this!
Posted By: unbidden Re: looking for hope - 05/29/12 11:19 PM
Wow, great news. So happy for you.
Posted By: sweetbabyred Re: looking for hope - 05/29/12 11:23 PM
Wow, what a change of heart. I'm glad things are going so well for you.

Please keep posting and let us know how things are going. I can use all of the encouraging stories I can find!
Posted By: vera be fierce Re: looking for hope - 05/29/12 11:39 PM
WOW. JC what a roller coaster indeed!

You know we only mean the best for you when we remind you to take things very, very slowly. I was struck by your situation, especially because not so long ago you'd said:
Quote:
I have to accept that she is not a good person. For so long I rationalized her behavior. Things from the past just keep popping up in my head and I am seeing them in a new light. After all who wants to admit to themselves that they married someone with serious flaws. Because I love her so much I explained everything away. I took responsibility away from her and placed it on myself. But now I ask myself why should I do that now? Like someone said earlier, she fired you as her husband.


I don't bring this up to be negative, though. I know sometimes it's easy to say things like this because it's comforting to us whether we mean it or not, truly.

That said, it sounds like a really good start that you were able to discuss both of your needs in a new R. Well done.

It warms my heart to see that your situation is turning around. Please keep us posted as you proceed with caution! smile
Posted By: scaredsilly Re: looking for hope - 05/30/12 01:40 AM
i'm so happy for you! i wish this would happen for all of us!
Posted By: MrBond Re: looking for hope - 05/30/12 01:48 AM
I would suggest the two of you go to MC or some sort of marriage program so that you continue on this positive course. Good luck.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: looking for hope - 05/30/12 02:19 AM
Good Luck!! I am so happy for you and your family. It seems like you W has been struggling for some time and I hope you get good help for both your marriage and her.
Posted By: chatterbug Re: looking for hope - 06/05/12 04:14 PM
Hey Buddy. I hope things are going well. I hope you both are communicating as equals. I said a ton of prayers for the both of you.
Posted By: jc180 Re: looking for hope - 06/10/12 06:23 PM
Sorry for not posting in a while. Things have been changing quickly here. I started my new job and my son is being taken care of by his grandparent until we find a daycare.

First off things with the wife are going great. I really believe the 180 made a big difference. It let her know that I was moving forward and the changes I made during our marriage were not just attempt to patch things up. They were real changes that I made not for her but for myself. She was impressed that I never gave up on my marriage even though I moved forward with the divorce.

One thing that is very clear in hindsight is the rule about not believing anything you hear and only half of what you see. In talking about our separation we both revealed to each other what we were feeling during those times and what was our motivation. Well of course what the other person heard and saw was not the full story. During the past few weeks before our new reconciliation she confessed to me that she missed me terribly and she felt she wanted to explore those feeling because we have a son together. From her point of view I was being overly aggressive through my attorney. I had the same opinion of her actions and we discussed why we acted in those ways. I think a lot of it was hurt feelings and just doing what our attorneys thought was best. Because court is adversarial and our lawyers only wanted to do a good job we both were left with the feeling that the other was being "mean." Now that feeling only extended to our individual matters. When it came to our son we were always on the same page and we both knew it was in his best interested to see us equally.

As far as me acknowledging that she is a bad person. I think that was a combination of my hurt feelings and my interpretation of her actions. In this process I am truly trying my best not to let my reconciliation cloud my mind. I am really wanting to see things from both points of view and to make sound analysis of what we did and how we acted. I will say that yes I do believe her behavior at that time was bad. But so was mine. I did act out even though I tried my best to follow the 180. In hindsight I know that without the DR book, the 180 list, and this sight I would have made things a whole lot worse. It seems less like making things better and more like managing the damage. I see it like a wall that is collapsing on me. I cant fix the wall until I first stop it from falling down on me.

We are trying to take it slow. But what does that mean? Sometimes it is hard to tell. I think for me it means not to be so demanding of her emotions. In my heart I want her to love me unconditionally and to fulfill my every need. If I treat her that way it will only drive her away. I know that if I keep being the man I want to be it will encourage that behavior from her naturally.

For the first time ever she is really letting me know what she is feeling. She was the type of person that walled things up inside. She still is but she knows that is not the way to move forward now. I give her lots credit for trying. She is really giving me feedback that I need. Right now we both know that the future is not going to be fantastic all the time. We talked about what we learned in MC so long ago. Even though at the time she was not engaged in MC we can still look back and discuss what was talked about. We do have plans on going back to MC but right now our schedules are uncertain. I think in a month we will be more settled.

I will try to post more often. To everyone who is or was in the same predicament as me my advise is to keep calm and GAL. And pray. God really did change me and I think that is what ultimately bought my family back together.
Posted By: jks Re: looking for hope - 06/10/12 07:34 PM
Good for you, JC. I'm so happy to hear this. I love what you said at the very end... it is right on the money.
Originally Posted By: jc180

To everyone who is or was in the same predicament as me my advise is to keep calm and GAL. And pray. God really did change me and I think that is what ultimately bought my family back together.


I hope for the best for you and your family.
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