Hi,
I only found this site 2 days ago - because I suspected my H of 4 years was cheating or doing "something". It was weird because he's always been more of a homebody, always made me feel so loved and special - and as much as I've always had trust issues, I never felt he was being unfaithful. I still get jealous, but that's my stuff. I will need to work on that. I was looking at his cell phone records, because he's been going out after work more frequently (works late in a restaurant); and I just had a weird feeling. I just thought for someone who didn't like to go out that much, 1-2 x a week was a lot. So I noticed a number I didn't recognize, and it began appearing 5 days ago, and showed up every day until today when I confronted him.
The caller had called him a few times, really late at night, like about when he gets off from work. A few of the calls were 6 min, then one was 12 min. 2 days ago when I had left to meet a friend, there was a call from him to her - 45 minutes. That might not seem strange to someone, but my H does not speak on the phone. To anyone. Even when we speak, it's always quick. We always joke that he never uses his minutes on his cell. Anyway, when I confronted him about who he was speaking to (didn't tell him I had seen her #) - he said he didn't speak to anyone, much less any women on the phone, never went out w women after work, just the guys. He flat out denied it 50 times. I begged him to be honest, and said that I just wanted to know if there was anything he wanted to tell me. He assured me there was nothing, and that he loved me so much, bla bla bla. So I (falsely) told him that someone had gotten in touch with me anonymously to tell me he was getting cozy with a girl; by now I knew her name because I called the # and her name was on her VM. He still denied it, and wanted to know who would do that, because he'd make sure they were fired. Bla bla bla. We talked about it yesterday, and last night, and then this morning. When I went out to run an errand this a.m., for a few min, he changed his cell website password which showed the phone records. I couldn't take it anymore, and told him I had her number and showed it to him. He still denied it and got avoidant. I kept asking him to just tell me the truth, and told him I knew more. He kept asking "what do you think you know? tell me what you know?" To me, that was solid proof. Who says that if they're innocent?
I then showed him the phone records of their calls (I had saved some) and he still denied it. It was ridiculous. It ended with him saying that I should move out. (we both know that wasn't going to happen). I told him that he should (although I cannot afford the rent here). Consequently he packed up his stuff, took our 2 dogs who I love like children (we have no kids) and left. I was so angry. I kept asking why he couldn't just be a man and come clean. He was indignant. I texted the girl to call me and when she found out who I was she said "u have the wrong #". I'm so angry, hurt and kind of numb. I'm like, did that just happen?
I know there are 180 rules we can abide by here. I just chose to be confrontative because I wanted this resolved one way or the other. It's torture, and it's the only way I could get "some" kind of answer. The truth is I love him and we had a really good marriage. We do/did fun things, are (I thought) in love, and are always doing nice things for each other. Sure we have fights, but ultimately I always felt it was genuine. So that's it. I don't know what to do. I don't know who to turn to. I haven't told anyone but you guys.
He probably has nowhere to go (she has a boyfriend she lives with I think). I'm kind of glad that he has nowhere to go, but I'm so sad. I just wanted a good marriage. I don't want a divorce, but I'll be damned if I'm going to put up with lying and/or cheating. Please give me your insight. Does this kind of thing change? Do they admit it after they leave? I know he adores me, but why would he leave unless he was caught? I'm so confused. I've read a lot of great things here in the past couple of days and I could use your help.
This is going to sound funny but I have an update since yesterday. I found out the truth - my H was fooling around with a coworker for the past 3 weeks, in their cars. Really disgusting. I spoke to both of them. They both say they didn't have "sex" but he admitted they were intimate. She only called me back because I threatened to tell her boyfriend of 2 decades. (I still really want to tell him). My H has since called me, crying and apologizing, and sounds like he's having a nervous breakdown. He said he's going to end it with her today and that he led her to believe he had feelings for her when he didn't. He said he didn't know why he did what he did. I was surprisingly calm, and thanked him for being honest finally. I told him that he could continue to see her if that's what he chose, but I want no part of it. If there was ever a chance for a future together, there would need to be NC. Period. They work together so I really don't know how it will play out. I'm trying not to have expectations, but what I really want to do is go down there tonight and tell the whole place, and see who she is and yell at her - and make them both feel bad. (yeah right). The sad part is that I don't want it to reflect badly on my H. Maybe because I don't want it to make me look bad. It also might sound horrible to say that I'm kind of enjoying that he's in pain. Maybe it will make him realize what he's done. Anyway, I wanted to ask for some feedback or advice from the forum - two things: where do I go from here with my H? As of now he's not living here, and I don't want him to think this is ok and all is forgiven. It's not. But I don't want to D if I don't have to, and if things improve.
Secondly, I don't know if I should pursue telling her partner? She's beside herself about that, and I have to say I really don't care. I feel like she participated in hurting not only me, but her partner - and according to my H, she thinks they're going to be together. (her and my H). I don't want to do anything that will backfire on me, but I really want to be firm and strong. Right now I'm dying to text her that she's going to pay for this.
Please share your thoughts? Thanks...
i don't really have much advice, as i'm in a similar situation, but my h is still living with me. i sent the ow an email telling her never to call or contact either of us again. i feel a little better, but i am careful not to get sucked into more drama. i realized that ow LOVES drama and excitement and if i get into a knock-down, drag out fight, it's just giving her what she wants. so after i had my peace, i blocked her email and phone numbers. i don't feel the need to contact her h (he knows about the ea, but not that it turned into a pa) and let him know. that's her marriage to repair or destroy. she'll do one or the other soon enough. i'm focusing my attention on my own marriage for now. ow has had enough real estate in my head, so i don't want to give her any more.
Bestgal, sorry you find yourself here.
Have you read Divorce Busting or Divorce Remedy. I would guess you haven't because telling the OP spouse is not advised in the books.
Read one or both books. Someone else here will most likely post the 37 Suggestions.
Read other threads.
This is a bout helping you help yourself and sometimes marrriages are saved.
Read the books.
Bestgal, if you believe you are jury, judge, and executioner, then tell the OW's BF.
The harsh reality is, disclosure of affairs can very often lead to some form of physical violence. There is no telling this BF you want to tell isn't prepared to be violent with his GF... or your H... or even you...
Please think long and hard about that. Would you want to be responsible for being his trigger?
Also, please try to understand that cheaters lie. If he says they talked, they probably hugged intimately, if he says they hugged, they probably kissed, and so on...
So you need to decide, is cheating a deal breaker for you?
If not, then it is time for you to take a moment and understand your part in this. Did you "cause" him to cheat? No, of course not. But...
People do things because they are filling some need for themselves. What was this OW giving him, that he felt he was unable to get from you? He is not innocent by any means... but in order for your M to work, it's time to work on yourself and become a woman that only a fool would leave...
Please pick up and read the book "Divorce Remedy". And keep posting here as things continue for you. Others will be along to help support you through this.
Thank you for the feedback...I was totally listening. I held off on creating any more drama and trying to get in touch with her BF until I was thinking more clearly and/or heard a more sane opinion, and I got it! I don't want to be the arbiter of anyone's conduct, because that will likely backfire and it's not the high road that I want to take. I thought it might have been the right thing to do, but I get that it isn't. I don't want to be the catalyst for anyone getting hurt either. Although if I'm being honest, I wouldn't mind her getting hurt. Because I'm hurting so much. It's how I feel.
I ordered both books as soon as I found this board a couple of days ago, so they should be here soon. This pain is almost too much to bear, and I'm still kind of numb, so I want to be ready for anything, and I definitely want to react the right way. Why have two married clueless people walking around, when there can be just one?
I never thought I'd say this, but no - cheating is not a deal breaker for me. Repeated cheating? Probably. Because to me that says, "I have a ticket to walk all over you, thank you for the free pass." At this point, I don't know if he broke it off. I told him the other day before we spoke on the phone that I wasn't ready to see him in person. Part of me is confident he'll stop this affair now. The other half of me doesn't believe a thing he says. I was relieved that he was remorseful, but that's only a small flash of hope.
I'm getting that I need to focus on me - and not for him. I'd really prefer to focus on him, but how's that been working out for me? I think that although his cheating was his choice, I have a huge part in why this M has been rocky on some levels. I have been jealous and distrusting and angry when I got scared. I probably backed him into a corner, or smothered him, or both. I hate that I have. But all I can do is the best I can do starting today. I have resisted the urge to text, call or email. Today I'm going to try to get out and GAL!
I appreciate that this board is here, and that you guys are listening and sharing your stories for us newbies. I'm sure it's not going to be smooth sailing, and I need the support. I'm not planning to tell my family or friends (I've told one) unless all is said and done and over. For now, I'd like to think that this M is salvageable, I just don't know how yet.
I totally get wanting the affair partner to feel some pain. Like I said, the harsh reality can lead to serious domestic violence. I don't keep count, but in our community (of under 5000) over my short lifetime, there have been combinations of murder and murder / suicide and plenty of other violent acts due to infidelity or jealous spouses.... so yeah... not good... In fact, police are instructed that domestic violence are some of THE most dangerous situations to be called to. Crimes of passion...
I don't know what the worst part is... I know what you mean about being "numb"... my sitch was that I walked in on what I felt was an inappropriate sitch, even if it wasn't a blatant, physical display of infidelity... I did the whole "deer in headlight" thing... then walked out...
It gets better. The pain eventually goes away...
Understand... really, really understand... even if the affair spouse denies or somewhat admits... often, in their mind, they aren't REALLY cheating... because they have rationalised WHY they are having an A. That may or may not be the case for your H. And even with the rationalisation, they may feel some guilt...
But what I'm trying to get at is, don't expect an apology. From EITHER your H or the OW. You MIGHT get one. But often enough they feel justified and don't feel they need to apologise.
As I've gone through my own journey, truth be told, I emotionally left my M 6 years ago. No, I wasn't actually making a choice to leave, nor was I having nor considering an A. But... I made no further effort to keep us connected because I just felt defeated from all the prior effort and then top that with accusations (at least my W felt that way) of my lack of contribution to the family, the upkeep of the house and yard (I was the stay at home parent... I kept up as best I could), and contridictory messages saying I should be contributing financially to the household, then being told I was away from the family too much (because I was out doing jobs)...
So yes, we do contribute. That was my contribution. And I can see how I stopped meeting my W's needs so why she would seek elsewhere.
That's the rational mind speaking. Add that to what is probably a slight MLC on top of that, and woo-hoo...
So again, just start to believe that things will get better. They WILL. And what ever little bit you can do for yourself at this time, do it. And if/as your H may attempt to reconnect with you, bite your tongue and take it slow. This is YOUR boundaries and it will take you time to get through this. DO NOT allow him to pressure you if he chooses to commit to you and the M.
Eventually, if both of you are ready, you may want to go to MC. Specifically to a pro-M counsellor who uses SBT and also has experience working with infidelity.
Keep posting here to vent and ask any questions and we will be here to support you.
Thx for that Kaffe Diem. Nice to hear that you can relate. I feel so supported here already, which I never thought would happen... the interesting thing is that I already got a heartfelt apology over the phone (I didn't want to see him and still kind of don't). I know he meant it, but I'm so screwed up about this right now that I don't believe anything. Like anything. He wants to talk, but knows I'm not ready to really talk. I do have a question for you or for anyone: if your S is trying to reconnect and talk about it (and its only been 3 days since discovery) how soon is too soon? I do want to go slow because I need to know that I'm making the right decisions, but how do I approach this? Do I ask if he's still seeing her? Do I wait to bring up our M and his commitment to it? How does a smart conversation go, this early on? I just don't know how to speak to him. I don't want him to think I'm being too kind, and mistake that for an easy way back in. But I do want to get to the question of what his plan is going forward. I feel like if I ask that too soon, I'll appear needy and giving control back too soon. I know everyone's different in these scenarios, but maybe some suggestions on what would be a wise way to proceed this early on would help. He called today to ask what I was planning to do as far the living situation - I got laid off a few weeks ago so he knows I don't have enough money to go anywhere at this point. Which brings me to another question: when/how do you set parameters for living quarters? We live together in a really small place. Since the A happened, he is living out of his car.
He said he'd continue to pay the rent for another month or two, and can live out of his car if I wanted, for a that time. I said that was a good idea, although I wanted to tell him to move back in. I'm so confused, I don't know which end is up.
First things first -
IF you do decide to take him back, MAKE HIM DO THE WORK. Figure out now what that would look like - marriage counseling, dating while he lives somewhere else, complete transparency (as in access to his phone records etc)?
DON'T just say "all is forgiven" and take him back without the commitment to do what it takes to heal the marriage.
Second - you're doing a good job of detaching and going dark, it's made him think pretty quickly about what he might lose and that's working out well in your sitch I think. Don't be too quick to become available to him.
Third - what is his marital history, and yours? Does he have a history of cheating in the past? How long sdid you know him before you married him?
Because four years into a marriage is pretty soon to be cheating, unless the cheater is a person with a fidelity problem in general.
I think that although his cheating was his choice, I have a huge part in why this M has been rocky on some levels. I have been jealous and distrusting and angry when I got scared.
Don't you think it's possible that you were jealous and distrusting because you were picking up on the signals that he wasn't trustworthy? After all, you were right about this episode - were there other incidents in the past that you might have been correct about, but but he turned it back onto you not "trusting" him?
Also - is there a substance abuse problem involved here?
Right now stop answer his calls. He's playing the pity card. He's apologizing, yet not saying that he wants back in the M. Total bull. Stay strong and have him want to come back.
Oy, you guys are too smart! Kml, I agree. I want him to do the work. At this point, I've agreed to let him come to our house 1 hour per day, at a time I choose, when I'm not here. Since he's living in his car, he'll be able to get his clothes ready for work and shower. (It's not like I'm paying the rent, although I do pay all the other bills).
His marital history: I'm technically the first for love (although he married years before that for his green card and couldn't keep it going, the woman kept wanting money and they D'd). We married 6 months after meeting. God I'm not painting a very good picture of this man, am I? No substance abuse, thankfully.
I've never been married until now. Not sure of his past re: cheating. I know he did cheat once when he was younger, but also had a 5 yr relationship where he said he hadn't cheated.
Yeah, I guess there have been once or twice when I questioned him about a girl I was unsure about and he apologized or said one girl liked him from work and was being persistent in texting him. He chalked it up to me being the one who was wrong, because I actually called the girl. They both say they never got together for lunch, or drinks, or whatever. They both said she was new where they worked and wanted to get into the restaurant business and she asked him about that a lot. God now I don't know what to think.
MrBond - he didn't say those words exactly but did say his friend told him he thought still there might be hope for us (when he called to apologize, bawling). I said I was too shocked to even say much, and he said he knew I'd probably never forgive him or believe anything he said. Would a man admitting infidelity beg to come back into the M right away do you think? I really don't know. He said he hates himself, and I think he should. I kind of hate him too right now.
"he said he knew I'd probably never forgive him or believe anything he said"
Tell him..."don't you dare presume to know what I think or will do".
"Would a man admitting infidelity beg to come back into the M right away do you think?"
Yep it happens all the time. Imagine a child who gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar. First thing they'll deny, next they'll argue back, then in the end they'll cry and apologize profusely. He's saying that because he's caught up in the emotion of it all and maybe he's afraid of the OW's boyfriend beating him up.
Personally, I would tell the boyfriend so that he knows what kind of woman he's going out with. Imagine if they get married and have kids and she keeps up this behavior. Those kids and he will be absolutely miserable. Let him have the choice on whether or not he should be with her.
"He said he hates himself,"
blah blah blah. All lip service. What did he say he would do to make things right? He's just showing regret and not remorse. Regret is saying that he's sorry he got caught (very self-centered) remorse is when they UNDERSTAND the damage they've done and do things to make things right with you (spouse-centered).
I really want to tell her BF, like you wouldn't believe. I daydream about it constantly, right before winking at her and giving her the finger. Although some here have suggested it isn't recommended in the 2 books I haven't read yet. And that someone could get physically hurt, which I'd feel bad about (questionable). Last, that I shouldn't be the one to act as that role. I can completely see why. Although it's taking everything I have not to find him and tell him. Especially because he'll know exactly how I feel and we can be outraged together. Honestly right now I feel like the two of them got over on me and I want someone to pay for it aside from myself. I like what you said about self-centered vs spouse-centered. That's so right on. I think it must be times like these when you find out your true character.
I'd love to hear anyone's suggestions as to how to proceed with that "first conversation" about his affair? We've only had the initial call when he admitted it and fell apart. Do I ask to speak about it, or wait for him to keep asking? He's said he knows I don't want to speak to him right now (which I did say) but I don't know how healthy it is to keep this silence going when we haven't even discussed/gotten to the bottom of the whole thing yet.
It's killing me to not know how it happened, what happened, if he's still seeing her, if he's planning to make changes, and generally what to say at this early stage. I could keep it dark, but then I feel like I have no tangible answers and am making it easier for him. OTOH, if I speak to him about it now, obviously it won't be resolved in a day, and it may not be advisable anyway. I feel like I want some movement. I've already been played by both of them. Now I have to sit in limbo and wonder what he's doing while I suffer?
If we do speak, and he says he wants to work on it, is this the time to lay out what I expect of him? What did you guys do that was effective?
Its your choice, but from a guy's perspective I've had affairs and friends that have also. In every case it was from not having a great relationship or needed sex, etc. I'm still working on mine but I think I would be such a better a better husband if I got another chance, if I don't I think I'll be a great a husband to someone else one day. The two friends that worked through there affairs had pretty understanding wives and they both have much better marriages now than before. I would think he would need to be at the "sorry" and begging to have you back stage before you give him a chance.
I'm not sure if I need to start another thread to ask for additional suggestions here, but I would love any feedback. My H and I spoke about his affair finally... I was really impatient because for a few days, nothing had really happened. He was still living outside and we really didn't speak much. I was starting to think he didn't care at all. I finally approached him and made sure I wasn't accusatory, I just asked questions and tried to be a supportive as I could about him being honest with me. For a few days prior to that he was reluctant to talk about what he had done when I approached it, but the eventual talk went surprisingly well and he got really honest. He answered every question I've had (so far), and agreed to go to therapy. (I did find a therapist who appears to be solution oriented, is pro marriage, and she uses Imago techniques - which I hope won't be too "feelings" oriented; I want to start off our first session not scaring the hell out of him!)
I'm just really scared about it all. I wonder if he thinks I'm a pushover? Is he just going through the motions to get back in? Does he think he'll do it again some day? I'm not even sure how to act toward him this early on...I've been slightly detached from him, and I have my upset moments during the day, but for the most part I'm being pretty kind and pleasantly going about my business by trying to take some space so that I don't get too overwhelmed. I don't want him to think all is back to normal or that all is forgiven, and I've made it pretty clear I don't trust him at all right now - but I'm still his wife.
Also - this kind of surprised me but I want to be sexual with him like you wouldn't believe. (or maybe you know the feeling!) Is that normal?
He's told me a few times he completely cut it off with her, although they do still work together. I pray he gets the hell out of there soon.
I guess there's no blueprint for how to act toward a cheating spouse in the initial first few weeks, but I have to say, this is really confusing! Do you avoid even trying to be intimate? What the hell do you do to not make things worse in this fragile stage? I guess there's no real timeline, or rules.
He also answered some of my questions last night that were really tough for me to hear. It's like this person I thought I knew so well - said and did things in his affair that were not at all in the realm of his "normal" personality.
Half of me feels like he's truly remorseful, and is really feeling all of the effects of what he's done. The other half of me feels like maybe I simply married some kind of a master manipulating player!
Back and forth it goes....
Hi - I had posted here about a week ago and got some great perspectives from people when I confirmed that my H was having an affair w a coworker... The original thread is merged below:
We're right now at the point where he's being extremely open and honest, and I'm really really grateful / surprised about that. He's agreed that we do need to see a therapist. I found one, and we're going to him soon. He also let me know that the OW called him the other night, but he didn't call her back. I really appreciated that.
I know that this is hardly the time to be jumping back into sexual intimacy with him, but between the lessening of our having sex over time, added to the affair that he recently had, its really made me feel rejected by him sexually. I've been wanting to be with him even more than before as the days go by...and last night he said something like he can't even begin to think any thoughts of sex right now. I understand that to a point, but being so new in this together, I wonder will it ever come back? Will he be comparing the worst of me to the best of her? That comment really bothered me a lot. I feel like he did things with her so easily that he and I have been stuck on because of either his or my unresolved issues / hangups in the bedroom.
I feel like this OW got all of the parts of him that I was supposed to have, and now he and I are even more broken than before and can't connect. It's difficult thinking that he's 'gotten off' by letting someone touch him, and kissed her extensively (everywhere) when our kissing has been few and far between....I'm sure it seems odd to want to be with him after he betrayed our marriage, but I haven't stopped desiring him, it's just our sex life has been so obscured by our lack of true communication. He's always behaved like he was attracted to me, etc but none of that seems to matter right now - I almost don't believe I ever pleased him. And part of me wishes we didn't have any kind of sex life in the recent past - at least that would make some solid sense as to why he did what he did.
All that aside, I guess I'm lucky in that we are spending time together NOT talking about it too, and we're having fun just hanging out. I've been pushing myself to get out and GAL also, so that's helped a lot. Just because I'm married to him doesn't mean he can fix anything in me!
I told him last night that even though all this was going on, that I still had urges, and if he wasn't in the place where he could get into it with me, I'd need to do it myself. He said he was fine with that. Which really pissed me off, I'll be honest! I feel like when we have sex it should be my choice right now. Healthy thinking, I know.
I'm probably being selfish and impatient. I just don't know how to act sometimes. There are times when I don't even feel anything for him, which I don't understand. It's like everything has been shut off for a window of time. Then I feel loving, then I want to be intimate, then I want to kick him in the head. When I'm nice to him, it feels genuine to be that way. But a few minutes later my head tells me to stop because he's going to take that as a sign that all is forgiven. It isn't.
He told me last night that he feels horrible for what he's done and how much he's hurt me. He keeps reiterating that he wants to work on this. I believe him, but I also feel like I don't know this person, so how can I truly believe anything he says?
If you have any insight or experiences that might help me make some sense out of all this, I'd love to hear them. Thanks...
I am going to go back and read your old thread before going into detail b/c I don't know the nature of his affair or how you discovered it, etc.
How long was it, how much did he have to lie, did he "love" her, or was it all physical, or some combination, etc.
Also I don't know what YOUR "unresolved" issues are vis a vis sex. You mentioned them so we know you have some.
If you were reluctant to do some things and he really wanted to, that's something you will have to address. If it offends you or hurts you to do "x", that's one thing.
But If you are over reacting to a request, or always want the same thing to occur, or are too inhibited, those are totally different issues, for you and sex therapist to deal with.
And we don't know your h's issues either.
But know this, a lot of m's go through trying times with their sex lives. And aging has it's own challenges.
I won't judge that or you. I will say something I heard from the priest who married us (& of all people, I sure did not expect HIM to say this)
which was "Nothing is defiled in the marital bed"....
Hi - I had posted here about a week ago and got some great perspectives from people when I confirmed that my H was having an affair w a coworker... The original thread is below:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...939#Post2229939We're right now at the point where he's being extremely open and honest, and I'm really really grateful / surprised about that. He's agreed that we do need to see a therapist. I found one, and we're going to him soon. He also let me know that the OW called him the other night, but he didn't call her back. I really appreciated that.
this^^ is all good. Has there been an open "break up" with her yet? There will need to be, but until I go back and read your old thread, I'll leave it at that.
(You might want to include a brief summary of your old thread though. It's a hassle to go back to it, and yet I can't really advise much without doing that. And you have a long post here...just a suggestion.)
I know that this is hardly the time to be jumping back into sexual intimacy with him, but between the lessening of our having sex over time, added to the affair that he recently had, its really made me feel rejected by him sexually. I've been wanting to be with him even more than before as the days go by
this^^^ makes sense to me. You want reassurances that you are desired by him. Are you overweight? Is there anything he has said that makes you think he does not desire you, apart from the affair?
It sounded like you were still being intimate (part of your confusion about the affair I assume) so he probably is attracted to you. But feels shame and guilt PERHAPS...I don't want to mind read but those are possibilities....and last night he said something like he can't even begin to think any thoughts of sex right now. I understand that to a point,
but being so new in this together, I wonder will it ever come back? Yes it can come back. Depends a LOT on why he feels unable to now.
Maybe he feels unworthy of you...maybe he's angry at himself
OR you or OW and fears "non performance" (or even an STD. Did he get tested? Did you? I am not suggesting you do so, but you ought to think about it.) Maybe he's depressed.
Why not specifically ASK him why he doesn't feel ready? He may assume you won't want to b/c you are too angry at him. OR he won't satisfy you b/c you'll withold that possibility??
I don't know. But you don't know either and there are a lot of things left unasked and unsaid here. I think that's a problem you CAN work on and you must.
Will he be comparing the worst of me to the best of her? That comment really bothered me a lot.
what comment? That it's too soon? Why does that bother you so much?
And as for whether he'll compare you two, no one can answer that. Nor would I assume you'd lose in all the comparisons IF they do happen.
But were you a virgin when you married him? If not, did YOU compare him to all the other men you were with before?
Even if you did compare, you still married him. As hard as this can be, try NOT to obsess about that stuff b/c guess what? You KNOW YOU have issues or hangups to work on. Maybe if you do that, the bulk of this will evaporate.
AND obsessing about them, will defeat your marriage.
If he believes you cannot get past this OR that you will hold it over his head like the Sword of Damacles the rest of his life
Or throw it in his face whenver you two fight, he'll leave. Obsessing about these types of things does not help YOU or the "cause" of your marriage.
Put a Stop Sign in your mind when thoughts of them together enter your brain. IF and when you two are intimate again, focus on HIM and him alone. Be in the present.
I feel like he did things with her so easily that he and I have been stuck on because of either his or my unresolved issues / hangups in the bedroom.
you are mind reading here^^^ and it's negative. You make assumptions that go against you b/c you are in pain. Don't go there. He married you for a reason and he says he wants to work on the marriage.
Why are you leaving things unresolved? The "hangups in the bedroom" stuff.....hey YOU CAN work on this. If you have "hangups in the bedroom" then it sounds to me as if you have already identified at least one problem to work on,
They says a "Problem being worked on, is no longer a problem." Fix them.
I feel like this OW got all of the parts of him that I was supposed to have, and now he and I are
even more broken than before and can't connect.
more mind reading, & negative assumptions. How is this problem finally being out in the open and being worked on, now "more broken than before"...?? Slow down. You both need time to regroup.
Let him learn to RELAX around you again. Same for you. Be in each other's company having some FUN time. See a great movie or a comedy (no romantic flicks yet). Be engaged in an activity together.
Do not bring up the Affair, or your marriage, or sex until you see the therapist unless he brings it up.
THEN YOU LISTEN and then listen some more.
Try hard not to judge or criticize. (((b/c hey, You can always do that later!))) Right now you want to understand the reasons so you can feel safe again. I get that. But it takes time and NOT pressuring him at the moment.
Let him rebuild the trust that is gone. And don't expect things to be all normal again, ever. But they can be better than before.
Other couples have recovered after affairs. Any chance you two can attend the marriage weekend retreat called "Retrovaille"? It's for marriages in crisis. Many of the couples there have your issue. And they do recover, and more.
It's difficult thinking that he's 'gotten off' by letting someone touch him, and kissed her extensively (everywhere) when our kissing has been few and far between...
Stop assuming^^^ this stuff.
If this is stuff he's telling you, STOP asking him for details.
You don't need those to work on this marriage, and it sure sounds as if the more details you have, the harder it is to get past.
have you read the Div Remedy book? It addresses this topic..I'm sure it seems odd to want to be with him after he betrayed our marriage, but I haven't stopped desiring him, it's just our sex life has been
so obscured by our lack of true communication.
not odd. Sometimes anger prevents the LBSer from wanting to reconnect but if a restored marriage is really your goal and punishing him isn't, then at some point intimacy will have to occur. But for now, BACK OFF and let him take the lead. (Was that an issue for you guys before?)
He said he's not ready. Believe him.
You are making many assumptions, colored by your hurt feelings & wounded ego. But you KNOW that communication on this topic is poor.
Why not work on that w/a professional?He's always behaved like he was attracted to me, etc but none of that seems to matter right now - I almost don't believe I ever pleased him. And part of me wishes we didn't have any kind of sex life in the recent past - at least that would make some solid sense as to why he did what he did.
All that aside, I guess I'm lucky in that
we are spending time together NOT talking about it too, and we're having fun just hanging out. I've been pushing myself to get out and GAL also, so that's helped a lot. Just because I'm married to him doesn't mean he can fix anything in me!
^^^ Good insights!! For now, just be comfortable around each other.
No drama, no trauma. Heal...then see the Therapist but make sure they are "pro marriage" people b/c not all are. Some urge divorce b/c it's easier than working on marriages and b/c they see a lot of divorce anyhow...I told him last night that even though all this was going on, that I still had urges, and if he wasn't in the place where he could get into it with me, I'd need to do it myself. He said he was fine with that. Which really pissed me off, I'll be honest! I feel like when we have sex it should be my choice right now. Healthy thinking, I know.
You see that you set him up for failure here^^^, right? No matter what he said, he would lose.
If he said "don't take care of it yourself" you'd be mad b/c he's denying/restricting you...
but he said "go ahead" and you are upset b/c you think it means he does not care enough,
even though he says he loves you and wants to work on the marriage. Try to identify these patterns and avoid them in the future. For both your sakes.
I'm probably being selfish and impatient. I just don't know how to act sometimes. There are times when I don't even feel anything for him, which I don't understand. It's like everything has been shut off for a window of time.
You are being impatient w/yourself b/c you think that once sex resumes the bad feelings will go away. But that will take more time. You are not being selfish. I think you are in a self preservation mode. Calm down and give yourself a break...and him too.Then I feel loving, then I want to be intimate, then I want to kick him in the head. When I'm nice to him, it feels genuine to be that way.
But a few minutes later my head tells me to stop because he's going to take that as a sign that all is forgiven. It isn't.
STOP BELIEVING THAT A LOVING RESPONSE HURTS YOU OR YOUR CAUSE...
he will not assume "all is forgiven" b/c you are kind to him.
kindness and forgiveness are marks of a strong woman, not a doormat
You are trying to mend a wounded marriage. More anger does not help.
Plus, you seem to realize you played a part in this affair, so why not focus on YOUR work since it's all you control anyhow?
The idea that some LBSers have that they cannot be "too warm or happy" in front of their adulterous spouse
b/c they fear it frees the spouse of guilt- is so misguided AND punitive and it hurts YOU the most.
HOW?
B/c if the "cheater" believes, accurately or not, that the LBSer will hold onto her pain and anger
and that he'll be in the dog house for a long time OR an indefinite time,
then he won't even bother trying to work on the marriage. Why should he?
In other words, the sooner you CAN genuinely forgive him, the better off YOU will be. Anger can consume and hurt YOU more than hurt or consume him.
Holding onto your anger to punish him is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in his eyes.
OW may be a warm, inviting woman who affirms him and makes him comfortable....do you as a wife really want to be the opposite of that?
IF the wounded wife plays the martyr all the time and won't let go of her pain in front of him , b/c she fears he has not suffered enough, she will lose him for good.
Do you want to be "right" or do you want to be "happy"?
He told me last night that he feels horrible for what he's done and how much he's hurt me. He keeps reiterating that he wants to work on this. I believe him, but I also feel like I don't know this person, so how can I truly believe anything he says?
time will help, along with consistent action by both of you that demonstrates change in both of you. That will lead to change you can believe in. And at some level you both must believe that your marriage can change and improve over what it was before...or it will end.
How are you demonstrating change in YOU to him?
If you have any insight or experiences that might help me make some sense out of all this, I'd love to hear them. Thanks...
I'll try to read your old thread if I have time
I hope some of this helps, and Hang in there
I read your other thread.
I don't think I'd change any of the advice I gave you. You MUST Read the DIv Remedy book as soon as possible.
Many of your expectations are unrealistic in terms of a time line.
AND if you want to restore this marriage, then you have to stop wanting to expose the affair to others.
It will probably hurt the OW's partner a lot...and she sounds as if she's trying to be better with him.
Plus, it will backfire big time on YOU. You may push them together more, b/c you will be cornering them
or you may just harm his career and piss him off more b/c really what does this have to do with his JOB?
And you may also look crazy. On my high schoo reunion website some ex wife posted to "warn" other wives that "X" girl might steal their husbands like she had stolen the ex wife's.
Several people commented that the EX WIFE sounded nutty/bitchy...not a word about the OW.
That's how it is seen. So don't make him think the choice to cheat makes sense or make others think you deserved him doing that b/c you are so vindictive.
Finally, do you want to repair this marriage?
Then you both have some real work to do, including you and some of your tit for tat concerns.
Keep the Road Home Paved and Smooth, and don't make it any harder for him than it already will be.
That does NOT mean you are being a doormat or saying "all is forgiven."
Maybe you can get Bond to advise you on how to pave a way for your h to come home WITH EFFORT on his end, obviously, (Bond is good at it so that's why I suggest this)
and maybe then it won't look so hopeless to your h. To me it seems your pride is very wounded, clearly BUT that also seems to be what you are following.
Don't let a wounded ego be your guide now.
Why on earth is he living in a car?
How long do you think it'll take before his remorse turns into resentment?
If he feels that in some way your hangups played a part in his affair, (which YOU admit)
won't you force him to start rationalizing it more?
Food for thought.
Thanks for your insight 25yearsmlc...and for checking out my (long) previous thread. I probably wasn't too clear on the updates: he is now living back in the house with me, since a few days ago. I had thought it would be best for us to communicate, or at least try. This is when he came clean with me and has been honest since.
AND if you want to restore this marriage, then you have to stop wanting to expose the affair to others.
I've since stopped trying to expose this to anyone. I never told the OW's guy, and I never thought to tell anyone else for fear it would hurt him more. I agree that it would only backfire.
You had mentioned that it's a misconception of some to believe we should protect ourselves by not being too kind, for fear our spouses will take advantage of that, and not do the work to earn back trust, etc. I had honestly not considered that it was more harmful and kind of playing games. So I'm reconsidering that position, as much as I can anyway.
And I do have a lot of work to do - on me. He will be a large component in the "us" work, but I am certainly not without some seams to mend, and I know that!
I have read both DB and DR - maybe not thoroughly enough...I could use another pass or two at both. Hopefully I'll look back in a few months, or a year or more and see that all of this pain and uncomfortable feelings were what made me (and my marriage) stronger.
that's really brave of you.
I'm impressed. Many spouses would throw in the towel in anger or w/self righteous pride.
I cannot promise you that your h will do the work HE needs to do for you to feel safe enough.
Or visa versa.
But you are still here, and that says something.
If you'd asked me 6 years ago what my chances of staying married were, I'd have said "10%"...
but I'm here. And I'm glad I'm here.
Good luck, keep healing!
And be patient....very very patient.
Bestgal,
I've read both of your threads, and you're getting great advice here, from various viewpoints, so there's nothing real deep I wanted to add other than this:
If you're wanting to be intimate with your husband again, please use protection. Before letting him back into that kind of relationship with you, I would hope that you insist on a full-panel STD test, and have him show you a copy of the results.
He keeps saying how "sorry" he is. MrBond had a great quote previously about the difference between "regret" and "remorse." If your husband truly IS remorseful, he should have no problem doing what it takes in order for you to feel comfortable in the marriage again.
Is his continuing to be in contact with this OW at work a deal-breaker for you? How much interaction do they have there? He's REALLY playing with fire there, as it's pretty much like giving the pyromanic daily access to the matches and the kerosene.
Starsky
P.S. Although he is rejecting LMing right now, let me ask you this: will he kiss you passionately?
Hi Starsky,
Thanks for your input...in response to your comments/q's:
[b][b]If you're wanting to be intimate with your husband again, please use protection. Before letting him back into that kind of relationship with you, I would hope that you insist on a full-panel STD test, and have him show you a copy of the results.
I know I have no way of proving it, but both he and the OW said they never had intercourse. He said he knew it sounded bad, but that somewhere in his mind he tried to justify to himself that it wasn't as bad if he didn't go all the way.
He keeps saying how "sorry" he is. MrBond had a great quote previously about the difference between "regret" and "remorse." If your husband truly IS remorseful, he should have no problem doing what it takes in order for you to feel comfortable in the marriage again.
He does keep saying how sorry he is - maybe not in those exact words...but he will say things like he doesn't feel like he even deserves anything from me right now...he feels terrible, wishes he could go back in time, etc etc. He has said a few times he thinks counseling is needed for us, so as of now I'm convinced he's willing.
Is his continuing to be in contact with this OW at work a deal-breaker for you? How much interaction do they have there? He's REALLY playing with fire there, as it's pretty much like giving the pyromanic daily access to the matches and the kerosene.
Interestingly enough, his workplace closed down 2 days ago - so they shouldn't need to see each other at all! No, it wasn't a dealbreaker - only because he was really clear about what he had told her (that what they did was a mistake and he wanted no further contact with her). She has called his phone once since, the other night but didn't leave a VM. When he told me, I asked if it happened again could I please contact her. He said yes. They will likely need to see each other one more time - everyone at his workplace was instructed to show up at the same time to collect their final paychecks. I'm considering asking if I could come with him. I feel like it's the only satisfaction I can get right now, by letting her see me and that he's still with me. No?
P.S. Although he is rejecting LMing right now, let me ask you this: will he kiss you passionate[/b]ly?[/b]
We really haven't done anything except he holds me every night when we go to bed. This a.m. he kissed me when he woke up and said I love you. I'm really nervous to kiss him - we've kissed passionately a few weeks ago but it just seems as wrong as being together. To me if he isn't ready to be intimate with me, then that includes kissing. Maybe it sounds weird but I'd prefer all of it - I don't want to have to stop at kissing.
P.S...clearly my trying to put your questions in "bold" showed no real difference to my answers - also in bold. I'm not going to make it as an editor....
I understand Starsky's point about the STDs...and the testing.
I could be wrong, but I don't think it's necessary in your situation.
It's YOUR LIFE and I don't want to advise you to be dangerous, but for ME if I were in your shoes
I'd find it depressing but I don't know your h. MY H is an MD and the idea that he'd
sleep with someone who had sores on her genitals or any sign of disease and not use protection was just insane.
If there were OWs for him they'd have been other MDs...
but don't get me wrong. I am only speaking for my situation and to let you know that not all people say you have to get tested.
My DB coach and I discussed it and agreed not needed in my sitch.
Be careful and be wise. Decide what's right for you and give yourself time.
If you do want the testing, don't say it in a way that shows disgust with him. That won't get you anywhere. Show concern...make sense?
Also stop "asking IF" you can go to see them interact. GO if you want.
He ought to be happy you have a relatively easy way to see them interact without public embarassment, or making a scene.
It's the least he can do, seriously.
P.S...clearly my trying to put your questions in "bold" showed no real difference to my answers - also in bold. I'm not going to make it as an editor....
Suggestion use the PREVIEW POST button before you post to see what it will look like.
I understand Starsky's point about the STDs...and the testing.
I could be wrong, but I don't think it's necessary in your situation.
It's YOUR LIFE and I don't want to advise you to be dangerous, but for ME if I were in your shoes
I'd find it depressing but I don't know your h.
I'm sorry, 25, but this is possibly the most grossly irresponsible thing I've read on here in a long time. When it comes to being medically safe, when a spouse has had an active affair, whether or not it's "depressing" is really no concern to me, nor should it be to anyone. If Bestgal has any doubts about this, she should ask her OB/GYN, and follow their advice. I'm really not advising anything that a good doctor wouldn't also recommend.
Besgal, I want to caution you in that you're trusting that your husband is telling you the truth right now. HE HAS ALREADY LIED TO YOU, and when people get caught up in affairs, they LIE -- period.
Now is no time to operate based on your FEELINGS. Do what your HEAD tells you is the right thing to do, and do some research about infidelity. You are projecting onto your husband your own values, and he's simply not in the same place right now.
I don't know how much plainer I can say it.
Starsky
I'd find it depressing but I don't know your h. MY H is an MD and the idea that he'd
sleep with someone who had sores on her genitals or any sign of disease and not use protection was just insane.
This is ridiculous. I can't can't believe I'm hearing this in 2012.
You realize 30% of women show no symptoms from chlamydial infections. Left untreated it can lead to infertility and has been linked to cervical cancer. And it's completely treatable!
HSV can show no signs as well.
That belief that one can look at a person and tell if they have an STD, or that protection is 100%, is just ignorant.
After my wife's affair, I got tested.
If it would have managed to happen we were to reconcile, I'd DEMAND she get tested and I wouldn't worry one single bit about her *feelings*.
Well then it's settled, testing it is. I agree that I shouldn't be taking my H's word at face value when he has in fact lied very recently. The thought that he could be lying about "going all the way" makes me ill, but the thought of catching something would really make me ill!
Thanks all -
Wise choice.
I'm glad you have your own best interests at heart.
Wise woman.
It's very common for people caught up in affairs to admit to one level less than the truth, Bestgal. Some call this "trickle-truth." In this way, "there's nothing going on" = "friends", "we're just friends" = EA, and EA may equal PA.
Starsky
I know that this is hardly the time to be jumping back into sexual intimacy with him, but between the lessening of our having sex over time, added to the affair that he recently had, its really made me feel rejected by him sexually.
That's it! I'm sorry to have to tell you, honey, that your thinking is stressed right now. And, you are probably not making the most important decisions rationally. Please believe me when I say this...Your first sentence, here, is the most important one you have said, and you should be listening to your own advice, your own words,
and your own voice. It sounds to me like you have the wisdom. You only need to follow it. Having sex with a man who has been with other(s) is not safe! Until you get tested, you are not safe -- no matter what anybody tells you. Don't listen to themuntil you get
tested, please.
I've been wanting to be with him even more than before as the days go by...and last night he said something like he can't even begin to think any thoughts of sex right now.
I have heard of this phenomona (some women want to have sex more when their marriage is being threatened). I don't know what causes it, but it is also not wise to engage, expecially when the cheating spose has indicated that he 1. either doesn't want it, 2. can't think about sex right now or 3. has admitted that there 'has been' another woman. These are all excellent indicators that he is not thinking about quitting the affair(s) and is choosing other(s) over you. Trust me when I say this, Men don't stop
thinking about sex. They just stop thinking about doing the deed with
you.
I know this is hard to hear, but right now, you shouldn't be wondering if he will "ever come back." You should be thinking about protecting yourself and possibly getting away from him until you are both seriously considering the road to recovery, and he is fervently attending the therapist with you and doing as he is told to do by the therapist, which will surely be to get rid of the other woman/women.
Oh, and one more important thing...it's true that most men have an affair with one women, and that's all it is. But, some men only admit to one affair. Sometimes there are multiple affairs that you don't know about, or will never know about unless you hire a detective, or you are an investigator. And, most of the time, those don't pan out well. It ruins your health, your wealth and your view of yourself. Don't trust anything he tells you until and if he is firmly entrenched in going the therapist route. You won't know anything until you have had at least several visits there. Don't trust him at all. You mentioned hearing two voices inside yourself. One is your heart, the other is your head. Don't listen to your heart until the coast is clear. Listen only to your head. Protect yourself!
I know that this is hardly the time to be jumping back into sexual intimacy with him, but between the lessening of our having sex over time, added to the affair that he recently had, its really made me feel rejected by him sexually.
That's it! I'm sorry to have to tell you, honey, that your thinking is stressed right now. And, you are probably not making the most important decisions rationally. Please believe me when I say this...Your first sentence, here, is the most important one you have said, and you should be listening to your own advice, your own words,
and your own voice. It sounds to me like you have the wisdom. You only need to follow it. Having sex with a man who has been with other(s) is not safe! Until you get tested, you are not safe -- no matter what anybody tells you. Don't listen to themuntil you get
tested, please.
I've been wanting to be with him even more than before as the days go by...and last night he said something like he can't even begin to think any thoughts of sex right now.
I have heard of this phenomona (some women want to have sex more when their marriage is being threatened). I don't know what causes it, but it is also not wise to engage, expecially when the cheating spose has indicated that he 1. either doesn't want it, 2. can't think about sex right now or 3. has admitted that there 'has been' another woman. These are all excellent indicators that he is not thinking about quitting the affair(s) and is choosing other(s) over you. Trust me when I say this, Men don't stop
thinking about sex. They just stop thinking about doing the deed with
you.
I do understand that those above statements can be excellent indicators that men aren't thinking about stopping their affairs, but I have to disagree on that point...I know I don't exactly have a monopoly on the truth here these past few weeks, but he has said and tried to show me in every way possible that his affair is in fact over. Does he desire sex with me? Certainly doesn't seem like it at the moment! Will he ever? I believe so. We had a conversation last night about our relationship as well as our sex life and why each of us felt like it went off course. I think we were both surprised to hear such candid and to the point responses. There were things that neither of us intimated to the other and we both agreed that each of us brought some unresolved issues to the marriage.
I know this is hard to hear, but right now, you shouldn't be wondering if he will "ever come back." You should be thinking about protecting yourself and possibly getting away from him until you are both seriously considering the road to recovery, and he is fervently attending the therapist with you and doing as he is told to do by the therapist, which will surely be to get rid of the other woman/women.
Yes - I agree with that, that I need to protect myself. I guess I'm doing that to the best of my ability right now. Getting away from him - that hasn't worked for me....it's only this past week that we've been living under the same roof again, and have started being very honest with each other. (myself included). I wouldn't want to lose that...Oh, and one more important thing...it's true that most men have an affair with one women, and that's all it is. But, some men only admit to one affair. Sometimes there are multiple affairs that you don't know about, or will never know about unless you hire a detective, or you are an investigator. And, most of the time, those don't pan out well. It ruins your health, your wealth and your view of yourself. Don't trust anything he tells you until and if he is firmly entrenched in going the therapist route. You won't know anything until you have had at least several visits there. Don't trust him at all. You mentioned hearing two voices inside yourself. One is your heart, the other is your head. Don't listen to your heart until the coast is clear. Listen only to your head. Protect yourself!
Makes sense to me. I don't trust him, and he knows that. All I can say at this point is that I'm grateful for the recent honesty. He asked me last night if I thought I would ever trust him again. I told him that would really depend on him, and how much progress we're able to make together. Ultimately I try to pay attention to my gut. When something doesn't feel or sound right, it usually isn't. But in order to have any chance of getting past this, I think my part is to be guarded, but open enough to not shut him out completely.
Makes sense to me. I don't trust him, and he knows that. All I can say at this point is that I'm grateful for the recent honesty. He asked me last night if I thought I would ever trust him again. I told him that would really depend on him, and how much progress we're able to make together. Ultimately I try to pay attention to my gut. When something doesn't feel or sound right, it usually isn't. But in order to have any chance of getting past this, I think my part is to be guarded, but open enough to not shut him out completely.
This sounds very wise to me.
Starsky
I may have missed this, but has he actually said he is stopping the affair? That it is over? Have you had this conversation?
Gabbysmom23 - he has said he stopped the affair the day after I confronted him about it. We talk about it whenever I have questions (usually before we go to bed). The one time she's called him since, he's told me about. He said that his affair was a huge mistake that hurt us and that he didn't expect that I would believe anything he said. He said that all he could do is show me over time that he can be trustworthy. He has pretty much been an open book about it, and about our marriage and sex life in general.
I may have missed this, but has he actually said he is stopping the affair? That it is over? Have you had this conversation?
Gabbysmom23 - he has said he stopped the affair the day after I confronted him about it. We talk about it whenever I have questions (usually before we go to bed). The one time she's called him since, he's told me about. He said that his affair was a huge mistake that hurt us and that he didn't expect that I would believe anything he said. He said that all he could do is show me over time that he can be trustworthy. He has pretty much been an open book about it, and about our marriage and sex life in general.
Bestgal, has the idea of a TRANSPARENCY plan been discussed between the two of you? This would be a great way to gauge his sincerity, and more importantly for you to be safe again in the marriage.
Starsky
I may have missed this, but has he actually said he is stopping the affair? That it is over? Have you had this conversation?
Gabbysmom23 - he has said he stopped the affair the day after I confronted him about it. We talk about it whenever I have questions (usually before we go to bed). The one time she's called him since, he's told me about. He said that his affair was a huge mistake that hurt us and that he didn't expect that I would believe anything he said. He said that all he could do is show me over time that he can be trustworthy. He has pretty much been an open book about it, and about our marriage and sex life in general.
Bestgal, has the idea of a TRANSPARENCY plan been discussed between the two of you? This would be a great way to gauge his sincerity, and more importantly for you to be safe again in the marriage.
Starsky
Starsky, we haven't discussed it at length, although last night I said that I believed both of us being completely honest was really the only way to go. He agreed - not sure if that's what you mean? Can you be more specific about how I would term that? Is it like having each other's passwords transparency, or just being very honest verbally about everything?
It's everything -- sharing e-mail usernames and passwords, keeping his cellphone unlocked at all times, swapping daily schedules with each other, changing his cellphone # and having detailed billing on the new line come straight to you (and/or the ability to go online and see the call detail). Those sorts of things.
Just google "infidelity" "transparency plan" and you can get some further research on it. The main concept is that it's not enough, obviously, to rely upon the honesty of the person who just had the affair, in order to make the betrayed spouse feel comfortable that contact has stopped with the OM/OW.
It also eliminates any need for "snooping" -- which is against DB teaching, and will only drive you nuts.
Starsky
I understand Starsky's point about the STDs...and the testing.
I could be wrong, but I don't think it's necessary in your situation.
It's YOUR LIFE and I don't want to advise you to be dangerous, but for ME if I were in your shoes
I'd find it depressing but I don't know your h.
I'm sorry, 25, but this is possibly the most grossly irresponsible thing I've read on here in a long time. When it comes to being medically safe, when a spouse has had an active affair, whether or not it's "depressing" is really no concern to me, nor should it be to anyone. If Bestgal has any doubts about this, she should ask her OB/GYN, and follow their advice. I'm really not advising anything that a good doctor wouldn't also recommend.
oh Starsky, I KNEW that would get to you! And I did qualify it. Also said I was speaking for myself. And my other point (which you didn't really focus on b/c you were so riled up and all)
was that the testing demand from SOME of the LBSers is destructively presented.
It matters A LOT how she says this.
And I admit up front, I could be wrong. I just think the "demanding" nature of it sounds off putting and punitive and not reconciliatory.
It's intensely personal and it is a delicate matter not to be said in such a black and white way, IMO.
At the time (maybe it's changed now) all she had an admission of making out. She has no proof of actual intercourse, and both parties deny it, or are we skipping over that? So when you advise her to demand that he & she get tested, it's also saying flat out he's lying to her.
I didn't say I believe him, but I do think it makes it a tad harder to demand than if there was an open affair wherein everyone knew it was a done deal.
Isn't this OW living with another man? Your response will be "but OW cheated/made out so how 'monogamous' can she be?" I get that.
But are you lumping hookers in with every OW?
I'm sincerely asking.
anyhow... as gabbysmom says, an STD is pretty damn depressing too. Point taken.Besgal, I want to caution you in that you're trusting that your husband is telling you the truth right now. HE HAS ALREADY LIED TO YOU, and when people get caught up in affairs, they LIE -- period.
Now is no time to operate based on your FEELINGS. Do what your HEAD tells you is the right thing to do, and do some research about infidelity. You are projecting onto your husband your own values, and he's simply not in the same place right now.
I don't know how much plainer I can say it.
Starsky
I'd find it depressing but I don't know your h. MY H is an MD and the idea that he'd
sleep with someone who had sores on her genitals or any sign of disease and not use protection was just insane.
This is ridiculous. I can't can't believe I'm hearing this in 2012.
You realize 30% of women show no symptoms from chlamydial infections. Left untreated it can lead to infertility and has been linked to cervical cancer. And it's completely treatable!
My mother had cervical cancer, I have 3 RNs and 2 MDs in the family other than my h. YES I discussed it with people who know ME and H and medicine.... HSV can show no signs as well.
That belief that one can look at a person and tell if they have an STD, or that protection is 100%, is just ignorant.
YOU ARE MISQUOTING ME, AND YOU ARE INSULTING ME...
You didn't read the nuances or qualifications or caveats. Not surprising. After my wife's affair, I got tested.
If it would have managed to happen we were to reconcile, I'd DEMAND she get tested and I wouldn't worry one single bit about her *feelings*.
I don't know you at all (& God knows you don't know me)
But Your wording & approach is rude & offensive.
I don't know if it's how you were with your ex-wife, but rather than prolong the hijack, I need to end this.
I got tested when I get my yearly PAP smear. Enough already.
don't you hate it when virtue goes unrewarded?
I "saved myself" too...but fortunately changed that when I got to college.
BTW it's crucial to note that I don't know of any OWs in my sitch, to this day. Never suspected one, still don't.
I could have more easily cheated than he could have, given his schedule. So the situations are very different.
But back to THIS situation *** I thought her h was being very remorseful and interested in whether she could ever forgive him/get past this (he has to believe this or he won't bother trying and she has to at least be open to it)
and she sounded very angry, wanting to "hurt OW" and or expose to third parties.
I still don't advise doing any of that, but I missed the part where he has openly ended the A.
Has he or not?
BTW Telling you that OW called and he did not answer her call, is NOT "ending the affair."
But then, did the OW say something like "it's over" anyhow? So did they mutually end it or what?
That stuff matters.
Yeah, I had a friend who had 10 partners before I had one. And A few were one nightstands. Go figure.
Bestgal, it comes down to this. You just found out about the affair. He just stopped it. He does sound remorseful, but he stopped it Only after he got caught. Before hopping the the sack with him, you have stuff to work through. You want to sleep with him not because you want to resurrect a romantic r, but because as you said, you feel rejected and unattractive. By having sex with him before he is ready, before you have dealt with the anger and the recent revelation, I don't think you re going get what you want out of ML to him right now. It may make you feel worse.
ditto^^^
and bg, I think the chances are high that it would make you feel worse...
very slight chance that it'll make you feel better.
IN TIME, with the work you need to do and those "unresolved hangups you have in the bedroom", and he needs to do to rebuild trust in the m,
then sure, ML could be a beautiful bonding reconciling comforting sexual expression of your love and marital commitment...
you feeling all THAT^^^ now?....didn't think so
I understand Starsky's point about the STDs...and the testing.
I could be wrong, but I don't think it's necessary in your situation.
It's YOUR LIFE and I don't want to advise you to be dangerous, but for ME if I were in your shoes
I'd find it depressing but I don't know your h.
I'm sorry, 25, but this is possibly the most grossly irresponsible thing I've read on here in a long time. When it comes to being medically safe, when a spouse has had an active affair, whether or not it's "depressing" is really no concern to me, nor should it be to anyone. If Bestgal has any doubts about this, she should ask her OB/GYN, and follow their advice. I'm really not advising anything that a good doctor wouldn't also recommend.
oh Starsky, I KNEW that would get to you! And I did qualify it. Also said I was speaking for myself. And my other point (which you didn't really focus on b/c you were so riled up and all)
was that the testing demand from SOME of the LBSers is destructively presented.
It matters A LOT how she says this.
And I admit up front, I could be wrong. I just think the "demanding" nature of it sounds off putting and punitive and not reconciliatory.
It's intensely personal and it is a delicate matter not to be said in such a black and white way, IMO.
At the time (maybe it's changed now) all she had an admission of making out. She has no proof of actual intercourse, and both parties deny it, or are we skipping over that? So when you advise her to demand that he & she get tested, it's also saying flat out he's lying to her.
I didn't say I believe him, but I do think it makes it a tad harder to demand than if there was an open affair wherein everyone knew it was a done deal.
Isn't this OW living with another man? Your response will be "but OW cheated/made out so how 'monogamous' can she be?" I get that.
But are you lumping hookers in with every OW?
I'm sincerely asking.
anyhow... as gabbysmom says, an STD is pretty damn depressing too. Point taken.Besgal, I want to caution you in that you're trusting that your husband is telling you the truth right now. HE HAS ALREADY LIED TO YOU, and when people get caught up in affairs, they LIE -- period.
Now is no time to operate based on your FEELINGS. Do what your HEAD tells you is the right thing to do, and do some research about infidelity. You are projecting onto your husband your own values, and he's simply not in the same place right now.
I don't know how much plainer I can say it.
Starsky
Oh, 25, I knew that would elicit a 1,000-word rant from you.
I find much of DBing to be very complex. This isn't one of those things. It's for her medical health, and how it's presented is of secondary importance. This is not something where one should let their emotions rule the day.
Starsky
At the time (maybe it's changed now) all she had an admission of making out. She has no proof of actual intercourse, and both parties deny it, or are we skipping over that? So when you advise her to demand that he & she get tested, it's also saying flat out he's lying to her.
[b]
Yes, exactly. Because people in affairs LIE -- nearly 100% of the time. Empirical fact.
Starsky
You didn't read the nuances or qualifications or caveats. Not surprising.
No. There are no nuances. No qualifications. No caveats.
If there is even a possibility that person you were in a monogamous relationship may have had sex with another person, you get tested. Period.
You didn't read the nuances or qualifications or caveats. Not surprising.
No. There are no nuances. No qualifications. No caveats.
If there is even a possibility that person you were in a monogamous relationship may have had sex with another person, you get tested. Period.
don't you hate it when virtue goes unrewarded?
I "saved myself" too...but fortunately changed that when I got to college.
BTW it's crucial to note that I don't know of any OWs in my sitch, to this day. Never suspected one, still don't.
I could have more easily cheated than he could have, given his schedule. So the situations are very different.
But back to THIS situation *** I thought her h was being very remorseful and interested in whether she could ever forgive him/get past this (he has to believe this or he won't bother trying and she has to at least be open to it)
and she sounded very angry, wanting to "hurt OW" and or expose to third parties.
That's exactly what I wanted to do the day I found out, and a few days after. I've since reconsidered after posting about it here, and getting some good feedback about the possible ramifications of that.
I still don't advise doing any of that, but I missed the part where he has openly ended the A.
Has he or not?
He has ended the affair - I didn't actually hear him tell her this, but he's told me a few times this same thing...that he told her it was a mistake, he wanted no contact with her, and he wanted her to stop contacting him. He said she came to work after that and had a meltdown and was crying, and it was a lot of drama. He said he's not concerned with how she feels - his focus is on how he's hurt me and us - and how we're going to work through this. He told me last night that he doesn't know how to work through any of our issues, but he wants to do this with a skilled Marriage Counselor who understands these types of issues.
BTW Telling you that OW called and he did not answer her call, is NOT "ending the affair."
He didn't say he didn't answer his phone when she called; he told me one morning that he saw on his phone that she had called the night before but didn't leave a message. He saw her # on the phone.
But then, did the OW say something like "it's over" anyhow? So did they mutually end it or what?
That stuff matters.
The OW didn't say that - it wasn't mutual and she didn't want to end it at all. When I found out about the A and called her, she called him directly after and said that they should use this opportunity to run off together. (not her exact words, but this is apparently the gist of what she said).
At the time (maybe it's changed now) all she had an admission of making out.
Just one quick thing on this: once my H started talking about his A, he admitted to everything at once. (sure, he could be omitting something). He had never actually admitted only to making out - that was something I asked about and he admitted to. Just wanted to clear that up!
Usual stuff. And remember you do not push people together. People make choices. So if anyone says your pushing or if your spouse says that. Call him/them out on it. It's called choices. Its a benefit of being an adult. It's also a drawback.
I understand Starsky's point about the STDs...and the testing.
I could be wrong, but I don't think it's necessary in your situation.
It's YOUR LIFE and I don't want to advise you to be dangerous, but for ME if I were in your shoes
I'd find it depressing but I don't know your h.
I'm sorry, 25, but this is possibly the most grossly irresponsible thing I've read on here in a long time. When it comes to being medically safe, when a spouse has had an active affair, whether or not it's "depressing" is really no concern to me, nor should it be to anyone. If Bestgal has any doubts about this, she should ask her OB/GYN, and follow their advice. I'm really not advising anything that a good doctor wouldn't also recommend.
oh Starsky, I KNEW that would get to you! And I did qualify it. Also said I was speaking for myself. And my other point (which you didn't really focus on b/c you were so riled up and all)
was that the testing demand from SOME of the LBSers is destructively presented.
It matters A LOT how she says this.
And I admit up front, I could be wrong. I just think the "demanding" nature of it sounds off putting and punitive and not reconciliatory.
It's intensely personal and it is a delicate matter not to be said in such a black and white way, IMO.
At the time (maybe it's changed now) all she had an admission of making out. She has no proof of actual intercourse, and both parties deny it, or are we skipping over that? So when you advise her to demand that he & she get tested, it's also saying flat out he's lying to her.
I didn't say I believe him, but I do think it makes it a tad harder to demand than if there was an open affair wherein everyone knew it was a done deal.
Isn't this OW living with another man? Your response will be "but OW cheated/made out so how 'monogamous' can she be?" I get that.
But are you lumping hookers in with every OW?
I'm sincerely asking.
anyhow... as gabbysmom says, an STD is pretty damn depressing too. Point taken.Besgal, I want to caution you in that you're trusting that your husband is telling you the truth right now. HE HAS ALREADY LIED TO YOU, and when people get caught up in affairs, they LIE -- period.
Now is no time to operate based on your FEELINGS. Do what your HEAD tells you is the right thing to do, and do some research about infidelity. You are projecting onto your husband your own values, and he's simply not in the same place right now.
I don't know how much plainer I can say it.
Starsky
Oh, 25, I knew that would elicit a 1,000-word rant from you.
what is it you all need here, a f--- surrender? Christ...
and btw, my MAIN POINT is tht most of the people here who "DEMAND" Testing and insist others do as they demand
are not in a position to make that demand and she has to be prepared for that.
BG
I read your original post (or one of them) and there is a lot that is not clear to me and you have not answered. This is the first time I've heard that OW said she wanted to run away with your h. I thought she lived with some OM?
and once again I ask, Why do you believe the affair ended at all?
Solely b/c your h says so?
I find much of DBing to be very complex. This isn't one of those things. It's for her medical health, and how it's presented is of secondary importance. This is not something where one should let their emotions rule the day.
Starsky
did I say "Point taken"? Why yes I did...enough
You didn't read the nuances or qualifications or caveats. Not surprising.
No. There are no nuances. No qualifications. No caveats.
If there is even a possibility that person you were in a monogamous relationship may have had sex with another person, you get tested. Period.
Fergie
what bothered me in your response was the absolutism, and
your needlessly rude insulting manner, which offended me.
For you to post more of it, after I made that clear, makes this pointless.
iow
I can make a mistake without being "ignorant" and
you can be rigidly self righteous and insulting without being factually wrong on the original assertion.
I think delivery and presentation make a LOT of difference, particularly in relationships.
Is the hijack over now?
I read your original post (or one of them) and there is a lot that is not clear to me and you have not answered. This is the first time I've heard that OW said she wanted to run away with your h. I thought she lived with some OM?
and once again I ask, Why do you believe the affair ended at all?
Solely b/c your h says so?
Ok - my apologies if it sounded like I haven't answered some/anything. I truly have no reason not to! But here goes: The OW lives with her BF, and has been living with him for 2 decades. Still, she had an A with my H recently. When I found out about it, I spoke to my H about it (briefly by phone at first, until I got off). He was crying and said he was sure I probably wouldn't ever believe anything he said from here on out. I told him for me to even consider any reconciliation at some point, he was first and foremost to end it with her - period. I gave him the option of continuing it if that was his choice, but that I wanted no part of it / him if that was his choice. He said it was not what he wanted at all, and that he was going to cut it off immediately. After I had spoken to the OW about it (the night before I think it was), she then contacted him to say that this would be the perfect opportunity for she and my H to run off together, or be together, or whatever her exact words were. He told her no, that was never going to happen.
To answer your 2nd question: why do I believe the A ended at all, is it just because he said so?
I believe it as much as I am able to right now. Are you asking me if I have a crystal ball, or am I psychic? No, I'm not. Do I trust him? No.
But I choose to believe him right now for these reasons: because he has been an open book and answered every question I ask him without defensiveness. Because his phone is out where I can access it all the time now, and I still check it - and see no communication from or to her whatsoever aside from the one incoming call he told me about the other day. When he's on the computer, he's right next to me, and I haven't seen him attempt to hide anything. He doesn't clear his computer history, and he leaves it open. We've spent the majority of the past few days together, give or take an hour or two here and there, and he doesn't seem anxious to check his phone, email, etc. I've told him I will be going with him to pick up his last check, and he said he has no problem with it. She will more than likely be there picking up hers. Last night when I asked him again if she had somehow contacted him at all, he said no. I told him it killed me to think some woman got over on me and didn't know a thing about the good things in our marriage, as lame as that sounds. He said that if it meant he would need to tell her this directly, that he would call her in front of me to tell her he was working on mending his relationship with me, just so I could hear it for myself. I declined; I thought that was a bad idea. Aside from those reasons, my gut isn't telling me anything is wrong. I don't feel sick to my stomach like I did when I just felt "something was off". We're communicating about it daily. He tells me he's a bit uncomfortable divulging each and every play by play of how they kissed, how many times she said she had feelings for him, etc but that if a counselor tells him to answer each and every detail I ask him for, that's what he'll do if it will save our marriage. He's mentioned more than once that he would like to go to therapy with me. I don't know what else to say. I'm taking this as it comes. If I'm wrong and I find out he's managed somehow to still see her, etc. - well then that will certainly be another conversation.
Bestgal
Some very difficult decisions for you to make. Complex difficult discussions about your sitch.
It's okay, you make the best decision you can for you and know that whatever you do as long as you do so with the best intentions In your heart and soul. It is ok. I am not asking about the A and its status. I am asking about you, what would be the highest ground and make you most at peaceful? Make you rest easiest ? Energise and help you respect yourself?
Some of the best vets here have listened to you, offered their opinions and some strong recommendations. It can be confusing and complex. Human interactions are sometimes indefatigable.
Sweetheart, you and your higher power have this. No matter what is, you have the answer within you.
Peace, rest and breathe. Listening to you and asking for you to listen to yourself. Please let me know how you are. I am thinking about you.
Sleep, rest and ML and understand what you do, for your own sake.
V