Just got back from the Chi Center and OMG it was amazing. He is teaching me this EPT tapping technique. Getting at the root cause of my anxiety and my childhood stuff. I am taking a 5 hour class on it in 2 weeks. It was liberating and highly suggest it for anyone struggling with anxiety.
off to gym! then driving range. damn I may get myself a pedicure I feel so good
Tiny change of events. W asked told me she is "Ok with it" if I want to goto family party. I said what was important is that she have fun and be comfortable with it. She said "I'm ok with it". I accepted the invite although hesistant. She set that boundary and then retracted. I do think her mother guilted her into it. either way I will go and not pay attention to her. She would also have had to answer alot of questions if I wasnt there. So maybe easier for her in that aspect. 60 degrees> have kids overnight. No anxiety today. Went to gym. At lots of fruit. Life is good
Hamster - this is going to be an opportunity for you. Do you see that? If you do, how about spelling it out here, just what that opportunity might be.
The opportunity is simple. Go and have fun. Interact like nothing is going on. Be myself. Be funny like I always am. Enjoy her relatives and friends. Enjoy my kids. Be friendly and friends with her. Take the focus off her. Just simply enjoy the night.
And what is the backup plan if you CAN'T do that with a smile on your face ???
What would a 180 be ???
Mach1 here is the difference from a week ago. I can do it with a smile on my face. I will do it with a smile on my face. I feel great. I've accepted everything you guys have been saying and my Chi counselor today really drove the point home of taking care of myself and that I will be ok no matter what happens.
She was miserable to me today on kid pickup. Didn't bother me. Enjoying the kids. Worked out like a nut today.
A 180 would be doing it with a smile on my face actually. Up to this point I wasn't or it was painful. She already running around with her rings off and wanting to date. I've accepted it. Im a good person and I will find someone else that makes me happy if this dissolves or start a new marriage with her one day.
I can't wait for the party. I'm going out and buying all new clothes. Ive lost 12 lbs the last month and should look pretty decent :0)
2thepoint any other advice. I want to prepare for it. I really don't plan on interacting with her all that much.
Well. When she calls to say goodnight to the kids she has zero interest in talking to me afterwards. Stings a little but oh well. I've never met someone as miserable as her. Honestly. Starting to get comical how miserable she is. I'm starting to not even want to go to this family party at all.
She was miserable to me today on kid pickup. Didn't bother me. Enjoying the kids. Worked out like a nut today.
3 hours ago this ^^^ was your attitude.
Well. When she calls to say goodnight to the kids she has zero interest in talking to me afterwards. Stings a little but oh well. I've never met someone as miserable as her. Honestly. Starting to get comical how miserable she is. I'm starting to not even want to go to this family party at all.
3 hours later this ^^^ is your attitude?
See the difference? You have got to stick with a PMA and ignore your W's "miserable" demeanor. If you can't do that when she is not around and only inside your head, how do you think you'll be able to pull it off at the party?
BTW, I think you should go to the party, have ZERO expectations regarding your W, have yourself a good time and show off some of the new you. Just don't go overboard.
But..... you have got to get your head on straight if you expect to have a good time and not turn into a basket case before, during or after.
Know what I'm saying, Hamster?
I see the difference. I guess I was feeling detached. Not that I don't want to go cause of her. I just don't miss the party as much as I was a week ago.
I have another 2 hour session Friday. So we will work on some more things. I really like this guy. He is getting to the root of my anxiety. Deep early childhood stuff. He was confident he could fix me forever. That most of this behavior was not my fault. He motivated me so much I'm taking a class with him on March 17th for 5 hours.
Is it common for the LBS to start to have feeling of not wanting the WAS back. After starting to work on myself and finding myself I'm starting to have feelings that I don't want this person back in my life. Not sure if it is all the rejection and the venom that has been thrown my way. I'm actually starting to feel this way and I don't like it.
2thepoint her mother was over visiting kids and she told me she is being short with me because I asked her to keep txt messages to important kids stuff and emergencies only. I guess that boundary I set backfired because now she wont even engage in conversation at night after talking with kids. I was asking for her not threaten me with divorce in the morning and txt me at night like it just didn't happen. Oh well. I have my counselor tomorrow for 2 hours and im going to try to golf and do the gym today. Anxiety is slightly higher then yesterday. I have anticipation going on. She is going out Friday night with all her girlfriends and I envision no rings on. Going to work on that Friday morning with counselor. I slept like a ROCK last night. I guess the work out helped me there. Weening of AD's and see if I can beat it with counseling and exercise
Ok so not having the greatest day. I'm not detached as much as I thought I was. Had to drop D off today at 1230. Noticed W wasn't wearing rings and for some reason it bothered me today. I guess I remember 10 years ago when I met her and when she stopped wearing the rings from the 1st marriage she was in. Oh and then there was me in the picture.
So I will try working on this tomorrow with the counselor.
M1 what would be a back up plan idea if I get down at the family party? Why am I letting this ring thing bother me so much. I know she is going out tomorrow night with all her girlfriends and its starting to bother me that she will be prancing around with them off. I try to detach from her but having to see her almost every day cuz of kids makes it damn near impossible for me.
Then I have all my friends and family members telling me to get rid of her. It will never be the same even if she does come around. You will never trust her again and always fear she will do this to you again in the future.
One of my friends that I lost touch with and recently got in touch with went through this. His wife took her rings off and that was it for them.
I did get out and golf today and will be going out to play cards. But all this crap is taking a toll on me emotionally. I'm hoping the counselor will rebalance me again.
I guess I remember 10 years ago when I met her and when she stopped wearing the rings from the 1st marriage she was in. Oh and then there was me in the picture.
Were you OM?
No judgement, just curious.
M1 what would be a back up plan idea if I get down at the family party?
Maybe you could politely excuse yourself by saying you have another engagement.
Know what you will say if the time comes that you feel you cannot handle being there so that you can bow out gracefully.
Why am I letting this ring thing bother me so much. I know she is going out tomorrow night with all her girlfriends and its starting to bother me that she will be prancing around with them off.
The truth is, if she wanted to do something, it would matter if she was wearing the rings or not. Please don't make more out of this than it is.
Then I have all my friends and family members telling me to get rid of her. It will never be the same even if she does come around. You will never trust her again and always fear she will do this to you again in the future.
This is up to you.
You can forgive her and rebuild trust if you choose to do so.
No one knows what you are capable of except for you.
Unfortunately yes I was the OM. that is how me and my W met. We were both in bad relationships.
Why does the W tell me she wants a divorce so bad. Even has it all mapped out with a mediator. But when I put the ball in her court to set up the mediator she does nothing? I mean its a simple phone call. Get this when we talked on Sunday night. I said if that is what you truly want I'll get a mediator for us. She said wait why will you get it. I want this I'll do it. Like she wanted that control still. Then I said fine this is NOT the path I want to take but if you want this set up the mediator and tell me where and when. I told her not what I wanted and put it in her court and she told me nothing. Is it because she feels guilty. I know she truly wants a divorce. I know she does. She to chicken to the pull the trigger. Or is she just going to go find someone or try to find someone and when she does then make the move.
Thank god I have my counseling tomorrow because this weekend ahead of me is going to be brutal.
Detachment is so fn hard. I thought I was getting close and I have moments I feel I am.
I also am having many moments of giving completely up. Its been 3 months separated yeah I get that. Very short. But this roller coaster has been 2 1/2 years.
I'm saying to myself am I fighting for my W or my family. Do I want my W back the way she is? My answer is no right now and I am not liking it at all.
Cat. I think I could use I got a migraine headache if i struggled as plan b. I get migraines all the time and she would understand.
I just think the ring thing bothers me because of the value I put on marriage. My rings are still on even after all the venom I'm getting. Plus she is making a statement to the public. I'm available. Look at me I'm available. It hurts. That is how I know I'm not remotely detached. [censored]. I wish I was one of those guys who could say F it, I don't care. leave me. See ya. I'm not.
As I was driving home from work tonight I was thinking about my life as it is now. I'm coming to believe I was given this sitch so that I could find a better way and become a person who has genuine relationships and can be truly happy.
But it's up to me to do the work, to stop being a victim and look at myself and what I can change. I can't continue to blame others for my life, it's up to me and always has been. Now I choose to accept that.
"I just think the ring thing bothers me because of the value I put on marriage. My rings are still on even after all the venom I'm getting. Plus she is making a statement to the public. I'm available. Look at me I'm available. It hurts."
Hey Hamster, you need to let go of the ring as an issue for you. Your W has said she is done, the removal of the rings are a symbol of that decision. You can choose to leave your ring on your finger as a similar symbol of your commitment to the M.
Assuming anyone even notices, my guess is that if they put 2 and 2 together, they'd be more impressed with your commitment to the M than your W's lack thereof. So if you can look at it from that perspective, you will be much better off.
FWIW, My W took off her rings immediately after dropping the bomb. I continue to wear mine. It is going on 7 months.
We often go to events together (i.e. kids sporting events) and I have yet to have anyone approach me about the rings. And frankly, I don't think anyone notices. And if they did, they'd probably be confused because one of us is wearing a ring and one isn't.
So my point is, it isn't an issue in the grand scheme of things, unless of course you make it one.
My W took hers off immediately. Long term goal is to get her to wear it again. There is nothing the LBS can do sour it. I old bing it up, but no good old come of it IMHO.
Sorry hate auto correct. No could will come if you ask her.
I'm starting to realize the real anxiety behind the rings is the fear of OM.
Why do you fear OM so much?
Thx LA for earlier comment. I am starting to work on fixing myself. I'm going twice a week to this counselor at 2 hours a pop. I believe in him and what he can do. He told me I have plenty of hope. Most people come to him much older then me.
I fear OM so much because I literally have anxiety so bad that I visualize the act of her being intimate with someone else. It tears me up inside and I do believe that would be the deal breaker for me right now because I'm not in a place where I could get over that.
I don't want to tear my family a part. I'm in tough place. Nobody understands that I understand that I need to change and fix things about myself. But my wife is depressed. So it makes it very difficult to divorce bust. I was reading that chapter last night in the book. Depression is a beast and when someone doesn't address its like telling alcoholic he needs AA.
I know its about letting go completely of her. I understand that. Everyday I tell myself that and I fail. I am trying very hard to let her go believe me.
I'm also starting to think my only happiness would be to dissolve this marriage. That I don't want to go back to her and the way she treats me. I'm trying so hard to be patient. I'm going to the counselor in 10 minutes. I will come back and post how it went. He really helped me last time.
He is interesting. He believes that your childhood memories get stored and you need to release them. He is very in tune with energy.
I'd be lying if I wasn't saying i'm struggling real bad. I try to focus on my kids. I try to focus on me but I get drawn into like a moth on a light bulb.
I did do better today. She was slamming stuff around the kitchen when I was over there. I stayed on course. Just helping get son ready for bus. By the last 2 minutes of my stay she talked to me a little. Not much.
LA wouldn't most men fear their W being intimate with another man?
I think what she's said to you is far more important than what she does with another man. Sex does not = love.
She said I'm controlling and have trouble letting certain things go.
You wrote this in one of your first posts. I'd take this to heart and use it as your guide.
What are you having trouble letting go of.
Also, cat asked a question you didn't answer: Were you the other man when you and W got together?
Does that increase your fear at what might be going on?
I know this is hard, everyone here knows that. We've all felt the pain you're feeling. We either dig to find the root of that pain or we stay stuck where we are.
Hope your session went well.
Is it common for the LBS to start to have feeling of not wanting the WAS back. After starting to work on myself and finding myself I'm starting to have feelings that I don't want this person back in my life. Not sure if it is all the rejection and the venom that has been thrown my way. I'm actually starting to feel this way and I don't like it.
Yes^^ it is common. But also be aware of how often your emotions change as well as the dynamic of your sitch. Do your best to not make any rash emotional decisions.
I continue to feel I may not want to R w/ the current person my W is but I'm also aware enough that she is confused, hurt, etc.. and I am giving her the benefit of the doubt and the space to figure out what she needs to.
It took a long time to get where we are in our situations, it's not going to be resolved quickly. Give it time.
Best!
As I was driving home from work tonight I was thinking about my life as it is now. I'm coming to believe I was given this sitch so that I could find a better way and become a person who has genuine relationships and can be truly happy.
But it's up to me to do the work, to stop being a victim and look at myself and what I can change. I can't continue to blame others for my life, it's up to me and always has been. Now I choose to accept that.
Wisdom^^^Agree 100% Bug!
Yes I was the OM. Yes it adds fear. I have trouble letting go of everything. That is what my counseling is helping me with and he is amazing. I'm now seeing him twice a week 4 hours a week. I feel 100 x's better after seeing him and he thinks with time the feeling will carry to days and then weeks instead of DAY.
I am working on my control issues right now. This guy is helping me release childhood memories and re-program myself. I really enjoy seeing him and I am so excited to have found him. I'm taking a 5 hour class with him on Saturday.
Small interaction with W today via txt. Suppose to pick up daughter at 2:30. She txt me saying she will not make it on time for 2:30. The 180 I did was told it no problem take her time.
Sad note. Son asking me when I'm moving back home. He told me mom keeps saying I don't know.
This counselor who use EFT tapping technique with pressure points really has helped me release tension. I actually feel tired after seeing him. I am going to keep working with him. He is helping me release my W. Let her go completely. We worked for over 1 hour today just on my ring anxiety and OM anxiety.
I have the kids this weekend. So very excited.
I bought all new clothes for the family party today. So at least I will look good
Slight anxiety tonight. W going out with all her friends tonight. Not sure why I am anxious. But I am.
Slight anxiety tonight. W going out with all her friends tonight. Not sure why I am anxious. But I am.
Not sure either....
Maybe you should stop thinking about it ???
Find something to keep you busy....
I don't have anxiety until I have to deal with W if what I'm finding out.
Well some slight W interaction. She dropped my D off just now. Her girls night out was canceled. She actually ended up hanging out here for a little while and played with the kids. Better then nothing. Told me she was getting weird migraine feeling today. She looks tired. Actually exhausted. Funny how I see her differently now that I don't live with her.
Well I have both kids now so life is good. Accept my 3 year old took a late 3 hour nap so I'll be up til midnight.
Whatever this CHI guy did to me today completely relaxed me. I'm ready for bed. Almost like a drug like relaxing feeling
Frustration but 180.
W came over last night said she was having migraine type feelings again and her cycle is due in a few days. I ignored it. Did not engage.
Today she says she can't goto S activity cuz she feels sick still. Then says I think I have a stomach bug or something.
So frustrating that she does NOT see that she gets a "stomach bug" once a month. Remember last month she had to call me over during her cycle on her weekend to take care of the kids for yet another "stomach bug" wow 12 stomach bugs a year.
This behavior from her actually helps me detach. I completely ignored her on it today. HUGE 180. I use to engage and try to fix her.
I'm proud of myself but frustrated that she doesn't even see it.
She told me when she took her rings off and said she wanted a D she instantly started to feel better. Hmmmm. A week later your feeling sick again. She will NEVER see that the source of her illness isn't completely just me. She is out of balance and needs to work on herself big time.
oh well this is out of MY control. I 180'd it and ignored it.
Rented a hotel with pool for kids tonight. can't wait.
Day 2 anxiety free. Can't wait for counseling on Monday.
Ok not sure what to make of this. I have my own opinion. Rented hotel to swim with kids. W invites herself by. I didn't say no cuz I'm going to family party. I feel she using me just to see kids because she can't go all weekend without seeing them. Anyways no anxiety during visit. Just mixed emotions
Is it common for the LBS to start to have feeling of not wanting the WAS back. After starting to work on myself and finding myself I'm starting to have feelings that I don't want this person back in my life. Not sure if it is all the rejection and the venom that has been thrown my way. I'm actually starting to feel this way and I don't like it.
it's natural and common to have this happen. I think it will ebb and flow.
IF the marriage really was sucking out your will to live and
if she was really the one with the issues OR you two just don't fit-
that will reveal itself in time. But your pain level now is coloring things as a means of self preservation.
In time, let's hope you both will let good memories and your love resurface.
Thx 25. Some how i let her see the kids fri and sat on my weekend. I don't know what to make of it. She was a miserable person to me all week then my weekend weasels her way by being nice. Inthink its confusing kids
I guess I'm stuck still. She only does this when I have the kids. She not coming to see me. I feel I'm in a giant catch. 22. Going to ask her how she wants to handle travel for family party . My guess now that weekend ending separate cars
Why ask her? Do what you want to do and then let her know nicely that's what you've decided.
I'm just curious if she wants to go as family or not. I want her to decide and not be controlling
You're not telling HER what to do. You're deciding what you are going to do, that's not controlling. If she wants to join with you she can.
She is going to the party no matter what. I am also going no matter what. Today is my day with the kids til 6. Party is at 430. They need to get dressed up in nice clothes etc and that can't happen in my tiny apartments (baths etc)
So I'm just going to ask her how she wants to handle or orchestrate everything.
I see your point LA. I just want her to decide and I'm at ease with any decision she comes up with.
I actually feel great again even with all the W interuptions this weekend. 2 days of meds. Counseling again Monday. I'm excited.
Ironic thing is this is orginally my W's counselor and she stopped cuz of money (excuse really )
I hope she goes back for herself and not us. He rocks.
He has helped me erase/release 3 traumatic childhood instances. All of which tied into my learned controlling behaviors
Working on myself is actually alot of fun. Lot more then I thought it would be. I appreciate this forum for pushing me that way.
Even though I feel like she used me all weekend I actually don't care as much as I use to.
She told me tonight she did not want me there. Her mother guilted her into asking me to go.
I did tell her I felt she used me or was nice to me when it was my weekend with the kids.
She then told me she knows she wants a divorce but doesn't have the heart to do it. I didn't have anything to say to that.
In other words I took my balls back from my W last night. She's had them on the mantle for the last 2 months. Tired of living out of fear. I told her I felt she was using me and she didn't like it. Tough crap this is how I feel. D me for me communicating I dont care
Did she tell you anything that you didn't already know ??
Net,
What we search for here, is a balance for YOUR life.
Working on yourself, so that you can see the role you played in the demise of what was, your marriage.
Sometimes we get buried under a mountain of crap, sometimes we can stand on top of that mountain. It's not about winning or losing anything.
It is about what you can allow of yourself, it is about what you can't allow of yourself.
First thing though....you need to know yourself well enough to know the difference.
Right now, your spouses life is all about her. I don't see that changing anytime soon. And there is certainly not anything that YOU can do to change that.
What is causing her to act that way ???
Maybe the moon looks blue to her, maybe popcorn tastes like moth balls...
Maybe she is picking up radio stations in one of her dental fillings....
In reality, it isn't up to you to figure that out.
What is reality... is that you have to start making those decisions that are best for you.
Those decisions will ultimately be what is best for your children.
HER choice right now, is to take steps to get away from you. And while that choice hurts, you really need to honor that.
It doesn't mean to take an active role , and pursue getting a divorce, or to do anything other than just be you...
Let her have her space for now...
Your decisions and choices are going to put you in a position to make quite a few unpopular decisions ( by her standards). That should in no way keep you from making them. They will drive you apart from her at times.
As long as they are in the best interest of the children, and are aligned with what you can handle...
That is something I would like for you to establish before you interact next....
What contact can you handle, in a positive way with her ???
Well M1 I'm not actively pursuing to get a divorce. I just feel I want to be able to communicate to my W if I am not comfortable with treatment by her. If that in turns pushes her closes to D then so be it. I'm not going to walk on eggshells and have unnecessary anxiety from her.
I told her last night how I felt and she didn't like it. She lashed out at me. That is fine. Its off my chest and she knows I feel she is "nice" to me when its her weekend with the kids.
She does want the best of both worlds. Me out of her life and the kids in her life like we are married. I think its confusing to the kids and confusing to me and her.
I wasn't mean. She said "I know what I want and that is a D but I don't have the heart to do it" I replied I respected that feeling of yours a week ago. Said those are your feelings and I respect it.
Believe me I'm not pushing for a D but I also have to let her go. Up to this point I didn't stand up for myself at all.
Here is a scenario that just happened today. I had counseling scheduled for 9 am. I get a txt at 8 am my son is sick with fever. I said oh no do you need me to get meds etc. She said yes. So I did. But... she followed up with a txt there is a service at church for my grampys birthday its at 9 can you watch S for an hour. I said no I had counseling. I felt bad but she didn't even tell me about the service. She was going to go today if my S wasn't sick and I really NEED to goto counseling. The old me would have canceled counseling and catered to her needs. I almost did today. But I felt that I need to work on ME. No matter if she D's me or not.
M1 to be honest my counselor help me realize I do NOT want to go back to her like this. What is the point? To be miserable? Unhappy ? Have negative energy. Only way we get back together if she decides on her OWN to go work on herself. I've decided to work on me and to be honest I feel pretty good so far.
Believe me I don't want my actions to push her into a D. But at some point I need to protect myself and continue to work on myself. There is no reason for her to be around so much on my weekend with the kids. When its her weekend I don't here from her. So Yeah I need the space to enjoy my kids.
I really don't want her back as is so I'm at ease with whatever she decides. If she needs to start mediation to make her feel better then I'm ok with it. This marriage is DEAD as is. I've never been so excited to work on myself. Hopefully she sees the need to do the same.
for what it is worth my W seemed to be better to me today. Maybe cuz I wasn't an FN pushover sap
I think the reality of what is happening right now and I had a lot of trouble earlier with it and still have trouble today with it is for now it is best that me and W are just "friends"
Easier said then done
One of the most frustrating things I'm experiencing is when I try to express to my W how I feel about a given situation she is absolutely immature about it. When I told her I felt she was using me a little she called me a "f98r4398ing retard" you are an absolute idiot etc.
I mean she is 40 and saying these things. Seems so childish to me
Bottomline: do you want to save your M?
Alot of your posts are filled with anger. While it may be understandable given the circumstances, it's probably leaking into your conversations with your W.
"when I try to express to my W how I feel about a given situation she is absolutely immature about it."
What exactly did you say?
I told her exactly what I was feeling. When its my weekend with the kids she is extra nice to me. She txts me and she tries to see the kids on my weekend. When its her weekend I don't here from her and don't get a single txt. I told her I understand being away from the kids is extremely tough. I just feel that the separation isn't a true separation. We are around each other all the time. She tells me she doesn't want me at family events but then renigs on it 3 days later. She tells me she wants a divorce at 11 am in the morning by 6 pm the same night I'm getting txts to remind me a certain show is on the tv. It is an emotional roller coaster.
I would'nt call it exact anger. More frustration. Everyone on this board is like you need to do this and that but the bottom line is my wife has extreme anxiety and partly depressed. her moods are ALL over the place. It is very hard for me to divorce bust with the bi polar type behavior.
So yes I am working on myself. I am letting her go (which is very hard to do). I am hoping she will start to work on herself but at this current time she isn't doing anything to address her anxiety and stress.
Honestly do feel a whole lot better since counseling. I do get frustrated with her not wearing rings, telling me she hates me, never loved me etc. I guess my skin isn't as thick as it should be. Id rather her stab me with a knife then say those words because words are hard to forget. You know what I mean?
Anyways its a tough situation. Its tough to figure out if I am being doormatted. So yes I decided to try to set some boundaries with her and stick up for myself. All I know when I talk to her in a CALM tone and express how I feel I get your fn this and your fn that. It is just silly. So I let her go and tell her I'm not going to continue conversation like that
One of the most frustrating things I'm experiencing is when I try to express to my W how I feel about a given situation she is absolutely immature about it. When I told her I felt she was using me a little she called me a "f98r4398ing retard" you are an absolute idiot etc.
I mean she is 40 and saying these things. Seems so childish to me
instead of attributing a negative motive to her when she wants to see the kids (ever think she might just miss them??)
own how YOU FEEL about your time with them without making it about her at all...
Instead of making it about what SHE is doing TO YOU or letting her decode what you want her to do or not do-
you can say something like "On my weekends with the kids,
I want to fully bond with them. I'm sure you understand (gives her something to live up to), so
I will drop them off Sunday night &you'll see them then."
No anger, no drama. Regardless of her reaction, stay on message.
The behaviors you're describing are not a part of bipolar behavior. It shows a woman who is confused. ALL of our WAS's act like that.
Your job is to keep the good and eliminate the bad. For example, she might have said she didn't want you at family events, but she invites you later. Count that as a positive. She says she wants a D but she reminds you about a show that's on. That's just her being considerate of you. Again, count that as a plus.
It seems like you're the one that's being confrontational. You're looking at the negatives all the time or that she has a hidden agenda. It could be the meds and they're making you paranoid.
Just mark down the positives and see those as what they are...positive.
Thanks 25. Will try that.
Its hard not to look at neg when W shows up at my birthday dinner with no rings on. Tells me she hates me etc but then uses me to get to the kids. Yes I get that she misses them. So don't I. I see them less then her and I didn't want this splintered life.
There is anxiety and depression I'm trying to deal with on top of hurt and anger.
I do think the meds made me paranoid. I'm glad to be off them. I also think the situation starts to make you paranoid over time.
Letting go of someone you deeply care for and love is the toughest thing to do. I put it right up there with death but harder
MrB. She say she didn't want me at family event. I respected that. She invites me 5 days later out of guilt from relatives. Then tells me she never wanted me there. I'd rather her just do what her heart feels. Don't uninvite me, invite me, uninvite after the event or treat me like crap at the event. I get the confusion but I'm also trying to be respectful to her feelings and it is impossible as is
I am no expert on any of this stuff and lord knows that I have my own probs, but focusing on the negative will get you nowhere with your W or anyone for that matter. IMHO at least. I think why our marriage is where it is was on me focusing on the negative. Not the only reason and not only my fault.
W took her rings off before my b-day, but she was there and we had a nice dinner and cake. I could have bitched about the rings but it is not going to make her change her mind about the situation. I was just glad she choose to spend time with us. I share some of your feelings sometimes NM, but I figure that nothing good will come from them if I act upon them.
Our spouses our doing what they want how they want, any act to control them or reign them in will push them farther away. Stay positive.
Thanks 25. Will try that.
Its hard not to look at neg when W shows up at my birthday dinner with no rings on.
Perfect example ^^^ of being negative, when you could just as easily see this as a positive. SHE CAME TO YOUR BIRTHDAY DINNER...that is huge. You focussed all your attention on her not wearing her ring. You missed an opportunity to THANK HER for coming.
My DB coach told me to "applaud loudly for the 1% of positives the WASs do." That is NOT easy. I know. But it sure makes a difference in OUR viewpoint and eventually usually, in their reactions. Shift your paradigm
b/c it's a downer for YOU and it worsens the marriage overrall.
Tells me she hates me etc but then uses me to get to the kids. Yes I get that she misses them. So don't I. I see them less then her and I didn't want this splintered life.
Lose the scorecard, for two big reasons. First, she has her own way of keeping score and on HER scorecard, you are not ahead. You see things differently.
Second, keeping score of who wronged whom and how much and who did it first
always hurts a marriage....ALWAYS.
There is anxiety and depression I'm trying to deal with on top of hurt and anger.
I can relate to that^^^^....You are seeing a counselor right? And what did your wife SAY were her reasons for wanting out? Did she list any flaws of yours that you think may have some validity? Are you working on THOSE??
I do think the meds made me paranoid. I'm glad to be off them. I also think the situation starts to make you paranoid over time.
Letting go of someone you deeply care for and love is the toughest thing to do. I put it right up there with death but harder
Death has finality and clarity. But a marriage in trouble, still has hope. And you can co-parent, eventually. So your kids have a mom. And maybe worst case scenario, you will be friendly or cordial and your kids will benefit from that example and no drama/traumas.
OR you will build on your co-parenting experiences and re-kindle your love.
Maybe in time, and with change,
her feelings for you will resurface.
But she will NOT return to the marriage unless
she believes marriage to you can be better/different than before.
How are YOU showing her that?
25. My S was born on my birthday. We met out that night for his birthday and she invited me down. That was the first night out with the rings off.
The anxiety and depression is on her end not mine. Yes I am seeing a counselor twice a week for anxiety and control issues. I am making progress.
I believe I am showing her changes. But again she has anxiety so BAD and depression on top of it I just dont know.
I'm still letting her use the kids to tug at my heart and get extra help from me.
Right now I'm working on myself but it is very frustrating that she is NOT working on herself at all. She needs to be in individual counseling working on her anger issues etc. Let me tell you something. She is FARRRRR from perfect. I know I can't control her and what she decides to do. But believe me I know I need work but it takes TWO to crumble the cookie. I wish we were both working on our individual problems separately but this isnt happening. Just me.
Anyways 2 hour counseling session tomorrow well over due.
Thanks 25. I do realize she won't go back to the old DEAD marriage. Here is the funny thing. Neither will I. She could ask me to move back tonight and I would turn it down.
I do appreciate all your input.
Its just I do feel sometimes everything thinks the WAS's are perfect. That its ALWAYS the LBS issues. I have issues. I'm addressing them. She has issues. She rather sit on Facebook all night long then own up to her short falls.
One thing through this process I really think is strange. 1st month of physical separation things were not good. Jockying for kids time. Figuring stuff out. 2nd month. W inviting me over for dinner. Giving each other high fives. Flexible with kids. Getting along. Then BOOOOOM. Rings off. I want to date. You should date. I just find that very odd. The sudden change like that. As a guy it makes me instantly think EA or even PA but most likely EA.
Other thing. At what point does the LBS give up. I mean this sincerely. Say I'm 8 months into counseling and the W has done nothing to work on herself. I mean nothing. I mean even MWD says that sometimes WAS's make up their mind and there is nothing you can do.
Just thinking outloud here. Off to counseling. Will report back later
ok first full weekend being truly separated. Did not see the kids. Zero contact with wife accept at night after saying goodnight with kids. It was tough but I truly think it is the space we both need right now. Up til now we were in separate houses doing everything together. It was brutal not seeing the kids and missing the sleepovers. Next weekend I have a weekend getaway planned for me and the kids. I hope she gives me the same respect.
What a great day. Friend came down and we golfed from 9 am to 6pm. Off to play some cards now. Staying busy is key during separation.
Counseling in the am. Working on respect tomorrow. Got my first book on positive thinking.
I have good days and bad days. Thanks all
Also. What if the WAS never chooses to work on herself. Goto counseling for herself. Anger issues etc. Stuff that happpened in her childhood. In other words I continue to work on myself and get help but if she never decides to isn't it hopeless. Or you just don't worry about it.
I just finished counseling. He really is working on me and taking me in all the right directions. He is helping me with my childhood issues that lead me to be controlling and full of anger. He also is trying to make me realize I do not need my W to survive. To take care of myself etc.
It is hard but we are making some slow progress. Living with these new boundaries between me and the W are also tough. I'm sure not just only on me but her too. I do finally feel separated. Not that I like it but before we were doing the same ole stuff just different houses. Hopefully in time we can interact more together.
"W has done nothing to work on herself. I mean nothing."
"What if the WAS never chooses to work on herself. Goto counseling for herself. Anger issues etc. Stuff that happpened in her childhood. In other words I continue to work on myself and get help but if she never decides to isn't it hopeless."
You can't force people to do what you want them to do. The more you focus on that, the more frustrated you will get.
"I mean even MWD says that sometimes WAS's make up their mind and there is nothing you can do. "
"Or you just don't worry about it."
Exactly.
Stop focusing on your W being a better person and just stick with yourself. You don't control what you don't have.
MrB. Did you and W reconcile. How long did it take. Sounds like you guys have 100 times more patience then me. I don't know if you notice but I really am working on myself. I've made progress. This weekend I was super busy. Had anxiety on Sunday but I truly missed my kids. Plus the nice weather brings out neighbors and friends and now I am feeling the splintered effects of that. But overall I'm doing better for myself. I am off the anti D and sleeping better etc.
One major event coming up in a month or so is my lease is expiring. Not sure what to do there. I can't see my W having a change of heart and wanting me back home in 4 weeks lol.
So I'm having a terrible anxiety day today. Not sure why. Woke up with it.
My W seemed to have land a part time job. This would be very good for her. She has been a stay at home mom for 6 years with little to know help with the kids outside of me.
One major thing coming up in the future is the lease on my apartment is coming up. I only did a 6 month lease. I really don't know how to address this with the W. A few people tell me to try to get back into the house and continue to divorce b.
I don't know what her feelings are going to be. It is a month away before I have to decide on what I am going to do. I can't see living with her again in this state.
Do you think I should try to get back into the house even if in separate rooms etc or just find another place to stay. Or just ask her what she wants and go off that.
One other thought. I know when you are DB you should have no relationship talks. Seems to me I struggle with not knowing what is going on in her head. How do you know if your actions have upset her if you have zero communications with your spouse. What have others done during there separation to communicate. I just sit in limbo every day with zero communication. It is frustrating and yes I stay as busy as possible. But I truly miss that we can't communicate at all about anything
Net,
My W and are talking and don't discuss the R or our M. I guess when they are ready they will come forward. I know that is not what you want to here, either do I, but if I push it with her I get nowhere.
SIW
Sad I understand you completely. What I really get frustrated with is say I did something to upset her or vice versa. We have no communication channel at all. Oh well. Limbo is not fun and I GAL up the ying yang
No we have not R. We see each other almost every day and have a good relationship with the kids. She's in a true MLC in that she has not wanted to work on her issues, but I concentrate on myself and we've become much better than we were before. Through my changes, I see she's changed, but it took a very long time to get here. There was also alot of drama with OM that would take up all the time here.
"Do you think I should try to get back into the house even if in separate rooms etc or just find another place to stay. Or just ask her what she wants and go off that."
Don't ask. Is it your home too? Do you want to be home? Then go home. The first day my W told me she was "unhappy" she told me to move. I told her if she was unhappy she could move because I was perfectly fine where I was. So she did.
For one thing you need to stop reacting to what she will or will not do. You don't need to be a d*ck, but you need to be firm in your resolve about what YOU want.
Mr B I'm really starting to suspect OM. Tearing the rings off. Telling me she wants to date. Telling me to date and on top of it the pure treatment like total garbage.
I'm in your situation. I'm just working on myself and man do I have a TON of work to do.
I'm working on my insecurity issue, trust, anxiety, and I'm learning it all stems from my childhood abuse.
I had a breakdown today. To be quite honest I'm ready to ask for a D as of today. Only separated for 3 months but its been 2 1/2 years of up and down with her. It kills me for the kids.
I don't know how you even stick it out with OM in the picture. You are a better person then me. I would have been gone.
My W is truly having her cake and eating it too right now. Not like it at all. As others on here have said she knows the kids are close to my heart and she pulls on those strings.
We also have a vacation home for the summer that I know she will use all summer long. I feel like she is stringing me along until she either finds someone else or just gets rid of me.
I have a gut instinct about OM but honestly don't know. It is just a feeling based on treatment. I am not sure if I want to know or not.
I appreciate your feedback. I know it may not seem it by my posts but I am making progress. I have a support system in place. I've literally done counseling 3 x's this week and I am unconvering things I never knew that bothered me. I'm truly trying to get in a place where I will be 'OK' with D even if I don't want it.
Sometimes I just like to write on here and it makes me feel better. But today emotionally was the worst day for me yet. I don't know why but I had to do emergency counseling. I broke down in the grocery store parking lot and started crying like a 2 year old.
Had a conversation with W tonight. It was actually civil. A few things came up. We have this vacation home and this weekend is my weekend with kids. I was planning on getting out of the apartment and taking them down. She txt me earlier today saying she was going to head down and clean the house. Clear out old food etc. She then said I don't mind if you are there. I said are those your true feelings. You don't need to be fake around me anymore. She said I don't want you there I was only saying that to see the kids. I said ok I respect your feelings. You goto vacation house and I will take kids to a hotel or something. Crappy situation but actually progress.
She is hung up on the D. She said I feel like I don't have anything to work on. The last 6 years of the marriage I tried. I said ok. That is your choice. You're a grown women and you make your own decisions. I told her I felt I have a lot of work to do on myself and I will continue to do so. I did mention I felt based on both our abusive childhoods that we both could use some work but the ultimate decision is up to her.
She feels she wants a D but just wants everything to be rosy and friendly. I avoided this part of the conversation. (although I'm starting to lean this way myself lately) I just feel it takes two people working very hard on each others issues to make it work and its a ton of work.
For now I feel I want to remove my rings. At first I did not have this feeling. My mind has changed. I am not sure why. Maybe its the counseling Ive been doing. He makes me realize I don't NEED W in my life I choose to want her in my life etc. But for some odd reason I don't feel like wearing my rings as of tonight. Sort of freaking me out a bit. But maybe just maybe it will help me detach.
I did say a few times I respect your feelings. I understand your feelings and she couldn't even respond to it. It totally took the air out of the balloon by saying that. A total 180 on my part. I use to defend myself etc. I just went the other way and said I understand your feelings. She almost seemed shocked at the moment.
I did mention I felt there was OM. I didn't get into it. I let it go but I got it off my chest. This was based on our history 10 years ago. When I met her she had just removed her rings and then I was in the picture. I also caught her in an absolute lie. But oh well on that.
so this weekend I'm going to take the kids away for the weekend and try to stay clear of her. I finally understand her feelings. She only interacts with me on my weekends for the kids and her own selfishness of wanting to see the kids. Not being a d*ck but I want to enjoy the kids on my weekend mom free.
I don't know where this journey is going to take me. I can tell you this tomorrow will be better then today.
"Optimism is the faith that leads to achievement; nothing can be done without hope." Helen Keller
Well I'm sure no surprise. We are meeting with mediator and starting the divorce process
She made consultation for Monday based on argument we had Thursday night over kids. Redic
Had a conversation with W tonight. It was actually civil. A few things came up. We have this vacation home and this weekend is my weekend with kids. I was planning on getting out of the apartment and taking them down. She txt me earlier today saying she was going to head down and clean the house. Clear out old food etc. She then said I don't mind if you are there. I said are those your true feelings. You don't need to be fake around me anymore.
The first question was good..."are those your true feelings?" The comment following about not needing to be fake is not helpful and just creates defensiveness. Next time just ask the question and wait for the response.
She said I don't want you there I was only saying that to see the kids. I said ok I respect your feelings. You goto vacation house and I will take kids to a hotel or something.
Sounds a little vindictive don't you think?
She is hung up on the D. She said I feel like I don't have anything to work on. The last 6 years of the marriage I tried. I said ok. That is your choice. You're a grown women and you make your own decisions. I told her I felt I have a lot of work to do on myself and I will continue to do so.
This is good ^^^.
I did mention I felt based on both our abusive childhoods that we both could use some work but the ultimate decision is up to her.
This ^^^ not so much! Why make excuses? Just do the work on yourself and let your progress and improvement show.
I did say a few times I respect your feelings. I understand your feelings and she couldn't even respond to it. It totally took the air out of the balloon by saying that. A total 180 on my part. I use to defend myself etc. I just went the other way and said I understand your feelings. She almost seemed shocked at the moment.
See? Validation is so crucial. Validate and listen...
I did mention I felt there was OM. I didn't get into it. I let it go but I got it off my chest. This was based on our history 10 years ago. When I met her she had just removed her rings and then I was in the picture. I also caught her in an absolute lie. But oh well on that.
So, do you think bringing this up got you and your W any closer to a reconciliation? If that is your goal, you may want to set that matter aside for now and not bring it up again. Do you understand why that would be a good idea?
so this weekend I'm going to take the kids away for the weekend and try to stay clear of her.
This ^^^ is why I said I thought your comment to your W about going somewhere else with the kids instead of the vacation home was vindictive. You stating it here in the way that you have kind of, sort of proves my point, don't you think?
Not being a d*ck but I want to enjoy the kids on my weekend mom free.
I totally get this. But you need to keep in mind how your actions are being interpreted. Don't give her reasons to push you further away emotionally.
I don't know where this journey is going to take me. I can tell you this tomorrow will be better then today.
Good positive thinking!! Just try to avoid sabotaging your efforts with potentially harmful actions. Re-read my comments above if this is not making sense.
She told me she is completely done. Doesn't have anything to do with the weekend stuff. She meets with a lawyer tomorrow. She doesn't want to mediate because she says she doubts that I can. She threaten to take weekly overnights from me. She doesn't even remember some of the stuff she says (aka, wanting to date other men etc)
I guess this is where I go dark. I can't even really go dark with 2 kids and seeing her every day etc.
I meet with a lawyer on Tuesday to see my rights.
I feel I need to let her divorce me at this point. Its been almost 3 years and now everything I do makes it worse. Even sitting in silence.
Well my W booked a lawyer and it happened to be mine. So that delayed things a little.
The problem going on now is my W is threatening to take away overnight kid time from me. She is being nasty and ridiculous. So I have to get legal advice.
For some reason I still hold onto hope that my W won't go through with the D but as I said very early on in my postings I know my W. she did this very same thing to her first hubby 10 years ago and I was the OM. Only difference is we have 2 kids they had none at the time.
I'm still going to counseling to curb my anxiety. It is very hard to have a light tongue with all the venom coming out of my wife's mouth 24 x 7.
You see my W wants to live the divorced life but have the best of both worlds. She wants me out of the house and the kids around her all the time. She won't let me enjoy my kids on my nights. There is a point of being a doormat and letting myself enjoy my kids. She sets boundaries and then doesn't stick to them.
Anyways I will not let my wife try to take overnights from me. I am documenting my kids schedule daily in a journal like suggested by my lawyer.
I had a good couple of days even after all the threats of divorce and lawyer talk. My counselor is trying to get me to a point of detachment. Basically accept that the marriage is over and work on being happy and not depend on her my happiness.
I still being doing a ton of GAL work. I do cards. Hang out with friends, play my acoustic guitar, and now that the weather is breaking playing golf.
The reality is my W is not the person I married. She looks like she is having a MLC. She is 40. No rings. FB profile set to not married. Hanging out at bars with single guy "friends". Telling me to date. Blah nothing I can do and I can't control her but very frustrating.
I did remove my rings because I don't feel married anymore. It was strange at first. But I completely don't even feel married at all. I was holding on to the marriage for all the wrong reasons. The kids only. My counselor made me realize that I wouldnt' go back to that marriage to her right now anyways. It takes 2 people to work a broken marriage and right now my W isn't doing anything . So I will continue to work on me.
One of my major flaws was calling her mom to probe her for information. This will be my first full week that I haven't called with the help of my therapist.
I am also looking for a bigger place to rent now that I feel this whole process is going to take a very long time to fail or heal. I want to find a normal neighborhood and start to live my life a little too.
I am also looking for a part time job even though I own my own company. I think it may help me get back into main stream for a bit
Anyways those are my random thoughts
So was she this mean to her ex when she left him for you?
and I've wanted to tell her this so badly. That she is treating me the same exact way that she treated him but even worse
Maybe it wasn't worse but it's yo hurting this time.
LA kharma is a bitch hey. In hind sight I felt I shouldn't have married someone who was doing this to their current husband. But I do believe once a cheater always a cheater is not true. People grow up. I haven't cheated since we were married.
She got a name of another lawyer but didn't call because she is planning easter. Strange Easter is April 8.
Anyways I'm working on me from here on out. Trying to reach a point where I am ok with or without W and ok with or without D.
I am NOT there yet but knowing this is a good thing
So was she this mean to her ex when she left him for you?
yes Mr Bond
.
And you supported that behavior.....yes ???
Anyways I'm working on me from here on out.
No you're not...
You are working towards becoming a victim of your circumstances...
You are working toward a life of never trusting again, and letting another persons actions define who you want to be...
You are pushing away from her with the same anger that she is showing you.
Why ?
Because it is the behavior that you supported in the past....
It is because you haven't realized that there is any other way to let go.
Stop looking toward her for your answers Net.
Every post is about something that she did TO you. How her actions are dictating your behavior.
You can choose to deal with this now, and let it go for your future, OR you can choose to remain stuck, and we will see you back in a couple years.
Your choice...
BTW- What is the deal with the rings ???
I'm working with the counselor to let her go. It isn't happening over night M1. It is hard to detach. You're correct my posts are riddled with anger.
M1. The Rings. I just didn't feel married anymore. I didn't feel it at all.
2thepoint I've read your post several times and have digested it thanks
M1 you act like I am the only problem with this marriage. It takes 2 people for a marriage to crumble and it takes 2 people to restore a marriage. I am doing my best to get me back on track. I have 38 years of re-wiring to do. It will not happen over night. I am working twice a week with a counselor to do this. (oh yeah when she her I was doing this she told me I was a f*cking loser and get a life and job)
My W threatens to take me to court and take my kids overnights away I need to do something about that or at least look into something. I try to go away for the weekend with my kids and she tries to ruin it. She tries to ruin every FN weekend I have with my kids. It is ridiculous.
Bottom line is I know what I have to do and where I am WEAK. Very weak. Im working on it. Control issues, anger issues, anxiety issues and non positive thinking. Its going to take time and having the venom and darts thrown at me during the process makes it even more difficult.
I understand the concept. Let her go be free. Work on me. Take the focus completely off her and just work on me. Easier said then done. You know this M1. You still struggle with it yourself. I've read your posts and I APPRECIATE your comments. I truly do.
I see your point on the rings. I was doing it out of anger and you caught me. She threatened to take my kids and she got a lawyer and out of anger I did that.
I have so much work to do on myself it is rediculous.
I have a book recommended to me that I may pick up:
The New Codependency: Help and Guidance for Today's Generation [Paperback] Melody Beattie (Author)
I also am going to try to get a part time job to keep me more busy then what I am doing now with my business.
Thx M1. Thx La, Thx 2thePoint. Don't give up on me. You guys know detaching is the hardest part. Letting someone go you love and not knowing if they will ever come back
Net
"Your Key to freedom lies in your power to control your thoughts" Tim Conner
M1 you act like I am the only problem with this marriage.
I'm sorry you feel this way, it certainly wasn't my intention to imply this.
My W threatens to take me to court and take my kids overnights away I need to do something about that or at least look into something. I try to go away for the weekend with my kids and she tries to ruin it. She tries to ruin every FN weekend I have with my kids. It is ridiculous.
WOW....she is viscous huh ?
Too bad that you don't have a say in that...
Bottom line is I know what I have to do and where I am WEAK. Very weak. Im working on it. Control issues, anger issues, anxiety issues and non positive thinking. Its going to take time and having the venom and darts thrown at me during the process makes it even more difficult.
I understand the concept. Let her go be free. Work on me. Take the focus completely off her and just work on me. Easier said then done. You know this M1. You still struggle with it yourself. I've read your posts and I APPRECIATE your comments. I truly do.
It's no longer a "struggle" for me. It is more of an awareness that I carry throughout my life. I know my triggers, and recognize my behaviors before they come out. I recognize the root of my issues, and have addressed them at the core.
They no longer rule my life. It does take time to work through them, yet you have to be willing to deal with them. Being a victim of circumstance will not allow you to do that.
I see your point on the rings. I was doing it out of anger and you caught me. She threatened to take my kids and she got a lawyer and out of anger I did that.
So...stop.
You are focusing on the rings to fuel your anger. It is a lame asss excuse to stay angry at her. Every time you see her hand, you can allow yourself to think about what she is doing TO you.
I'm glad you are getting some of that anger out here, and with me. Go ahead and give it all to me if you want to, I can handle it.
If I can fire you up that much , I can't imagine how much you give to your spouse.
I am curious though.....
Are you angry with her ?
Or at yourself ????
The New Codependency: Help and Guidance for Today's Generation [Paperback] Melody Beattie (Author)
It is a great read...
I also am going to try to get a part time job to keep me more busy then what I am doing now with my business.
Just make sure that you don't hide in it....
You have choices in life, it is up to you to see them clearly...
You have a choice of how much pain that you let in...
You have a choice of how you move forward with your life..
You have a choice about how you come through this...
You have a choice of you are defined as a Man, Father, and a Husband....
Netmaster,
I understand that our situations are a little different, but I can share some of what is going on with me. When my W dropped the bomb, the ring was off and the F/B account was updated to "Seperated" on the same night.
Since then I have not given my W that not wearing her rings did not bother me in the least. IMHO the rings were the least of my worries. My main concern was to become the Dad to my kids.
It has almost been a month since W told me were D'ing. I live my life day to day the best I can. Some days are better than others, but for the first time in a long time I can honestly say that I am giving 100% to my kids and family.
W cancelled her consultation with her L and I think we are making some progress. I am still advised that "It is a temporary thing and will last for two months." It makes me dissapointed, but I simply smile and usually walk away.
You are only human and so is your W. You both will make some mistakes, but nothing will get better for you, your family or M if you let your anger get the best of you.
By far I am no expert, just my two cents.
SIW