Hello all. This is my first post. I'll apologize in advance if it gets too lengthy...
I'm really hoping for some guidance from some experienced DB'ers. I found this forum about a week or so after my H dropped the bomb and we seperated on 11/29/2011 (yep, happened on the same day). I have been lurking here ever since. I've learned so much from reading everyone's situations and find the advice here so valueable. I've read DB and am familiar with the SBT principles and have been trying to apply the techniques to the best of my ability. I am familiar and have memorized the 37 rules and for the most part, have been able to adhere to them. I've also read Gary Chapman's 5 love languages and John Gottman's 7 principles for making marriage work. All this was after he left. I wish I had read them before all this happened.
A bit of background info:
We've been married for 16 years, together for 17. We have a beautiful D12 and a SS21 from my H's first marriage. I am 36, H is 41. For the most part, we've had a stable and happy marriage. Unfortunately, the past few years have literally been crisis upon crisis and it has taken it's toll.
Initially it started with the economic downturn. My H is in senior management for an American corporation and for what was an already high stress job, became incredibly stressful. Eventually his health became compromised and he survived a life threatening pulmonary embolism in Nov/09. It rattled us both significantly. Very scary.
In Jan./2010 we learned that my stepson was drug addicted.
In March 2010 my H had made the choice to strictly limit his relationship with his son until he sobered up (a descision which I supported). SS21 continues on a path of self-destruction.
In April 2010 my H injured his leg (snapped his achilles tendon), which wouldn't have been too big of a deal except for that surgery to repair it wasn't an option due to his being on blood thinners as a result of his embolism. Two weeks later H developed compartment syndrome (a serious complication from the injury) which involved a two week hospital stay and three surgeries to save his leg from amputation, then 4 months of being immobile due to having his leg casted, followed by almost a year of physical therapy.
During this period of time, it became obvious that H was having difficulties coping with so many life adjustments in such a small time frame (how could he not?). He began having anxiety attacks, severe mood swings, and withdrawing from everybody, which I admit, I could've responded better to.
In Jan/2011 I convinced him to go to our GP and seek a referral to a psychiatrist. Our GP would not refer him to a psychiatrist, but rather gave him an Rx for antianxiety meds and sent him to a psychologist, who he saw for maybe 4-5 sessions and then stopped going.
In April/2011, I got a phonecall in the middle of the day from H's assistant, saying there was something wrong with H and he was bringing him home. When H got home, it was obvious that H was having some sort of mental breakdown, he was paranoid and delusional - if not psychotic, he was clearly well on his way. I took him to the ER and they admitted him to the psych unit for 2 weeks. He is now still under the care of a psychiatrist.
His Dx is major depressive disorder, although I am more inclined to suspect bipolar II after doing some research. I've described some of his past behaviours to our GP and my therapist, who also agree that it sounds more like bipolar than depression. I do not believe H has been entirely forthcoming to his psychiatrist. Although H is no longer in a state of psychosis (thanks to antipsychotic drugs), his moods have yet to be stabilized despite trying numerous antidepressants.
I should also mention that I myself have unipolar depression. For the most part in the past, I have been able to manage it & keep it under control with antidepressants and CBT. With the exception of my current depressive episode, my last episode was approximately 3 years ago & lasted about 5 or 6 months from onset to remission (this was before my H's PE).
Wow...after seeing all this written down...geez, what a gong show! You just can't make this stuff up!
In the months following my H's mental breakdown, I had made the assumption that his withdrawing, bad moods, angry outbursts, couch potato-ness, etc. were all attributed to his depression. I'm familiar with depression, I know what it does, I've lived it many times and assumed that once he was stabilized, life and our R would return back to normal. Despite my efforts to get him to talk to me about what was going on with him, I was met with stonewalling. Every. Single. Time. Eventually I decided to just leave him be and that in time he would work it out for himself.
During the weeks leading up to the bomb and seperation I could sense that something was going on with H and feared that he was becoming mentally unstable again. I tried talking to him about it and was met with more stonewalling. His ideas became somewhat grandiose. Four days before the bomb, he told me he wanted to quit his job and open up a salon, an industry which he knows nothing about - because he figured that owning his own business would alleviate some of his work related stress (I've given up on trying to understand the logic of that). I simply asked him not to make any life altering descisions until his mental health issues were stabilized. He agreed. Two days before the bomb, he did not come home for dinner (a first in 17 years). When he did come home at 11:00 that night, I learned that he had spent the evening getting a new tattoo, which was news to me that it was even something he was considering. The day that he dropped the bomb, he refused to even attempt MC and left within the hour to go live with his parents. There was no fight or arguement that preceded this, nothing. I did get the IDLY and never have as well as the "it's not you, it's me" speil. That day I also learned (as per H) that the psychologist H has seen for a few sessions earlier in the year had been the one to terminate therapy, telling him that she didn't know how she could help him, but gave him the business card to a L and advised him to seek a D.
I literally felt like the rug was pulled out from under me. Did not see this coming in any way, shape or form.
So needless to say, my H's mental health issues definitely complicate matters.
Predictably, my current depressive episode is making it difficult to sustain my GAL activities. I am in the middle of adjusting my meds, hopeful that my motivation and energy will improve. For anyone who's unfamiliar, it's a very slow process of trial and error, gradually increasing doseages (to avoid major side effects) then waiting to see if the drug works. If it works, great. If not, it's a matter of slowly weaning off the drug (to prevent withdrawal symptoms) and trying again with an alternative drug. Lather, rinse, repeat...
I've been doing my best to act as if & doing 180's and they seem to be working. Since our separation, H has gone from being completely hostile towards me to being friendly and respectful, even behaving in ways that shows he still cares.
^^^^I am however, cautious about this and a little uneasy about the timing of this. I'm suspicious that this may have something to do with my inlaws having gone south for the winter. During the past few years I have become my mother-in-law's chosen scapegoat and suspect that H may be drinking her koolaid. So I am cautious but optimistic.
On a very positive note, I took the risk of going against one of the 37 rules this past weekend and gave H a package of wine gums (one of his LLs is gifts and wine gums are his favourite candy). It's been a very long time since I've seen his face light up like that.
Baby steps...
Dory,
Welcome to the board.
You read DB, get the DR book and read it if you haven't already.
Please have no EXPECTATIONS about anything you DO.
Believe none of what he says and 1/2 of what he does.
He is asking for SPACE, give it to him.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Your depression DID not cause HIS.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Wow, Thank you to the admin/mods for approving my post so quickly! Much appreciated!
My 180's thus far:
~stopped talking/complaining about my inlaws. Now when H brings them up and starts complaining about them, I just smile and say, "well, that's how they are." (trying to validate without getting sucked in)
~Been much dimmer, with the exception of discussions about D12. This has been tough to balance, though. My inlaws have gone away for the winter, leaving H alone. Considering his mental state, I've been trying to keep an eye out for any indication that it could be deteriorating (for his own safety) but been trying to do so at a distance, without being terribly intrusive.
~Lost a lot of weight (almost 50 lbs in the past 4 months). Although this is a symptom of my depression and not something that I intentionally worked towards, H has noticed and has complimented me numerous times about how good I look.
~Increased the frequency of which I see my therapist which has made a huge difference in my outlook and attitude.
~Stopped drinking (not that I was a big drinker before all this happened, I just decided that drinking was probably not in my best interest right now)
~Bought myself some new clothes. Although this was mainly out of necessity because nothing I had fit, it's still something out of the ordinary that I would do (I tend to be a real tightwad especially when it comes to spending money on myself).
~Relaxed a fair bit regarding housekeeping. I'm usually quite obsessive/compulsive about it and have perfectionist tendencies.
This is all I can think of right now, I'm sure there's more but I just can't think of them off the top of my head right now.
So now for my first question:
My H's primary love language is physical affection. This does not mesh well with me (at all!), although it's something I am willing to change about myself. So I'm wondering if anybody can offer any ideas on what I might be able to try without coming off as pursuing? This is foreign territory for me, I am clueless on how to go about it.
Any ideas/input?
Thanks!
Thanks, Cadet. I appreciate the welcome.
Interesting that you say that my depression did not cause his. It's something that I know intellectually, however at times I feel the opposite to be true. It's bridging that head/heart gap which is sometimes a struggle, and that's where my therapist has proven to be a big asset.
My mother in law rattling off that I'm the cause of his mental breakdown certainly hasn't helped matters...ummm, yeah, okaaaay...Riiiight, I secretly have a science lab where I developed a serum for psychosis and used my H as a guinea pig...pfffft. Yes, I know that statement is dripping with sarcasm, I would never say that to her but I admit it's run through my head every time she's started pointing her fingers at me.
Journalling...
So H spent most of the evening with D12 & I at home and had a realtor come by to give us a market analysis & suggest a listing price for our home. I have mixed feelings about this.
One of H's current complaints is that he feels too much financial pressure having the size of mortgage which we have - although this was something that was not made clear to me until after we separated. Prior to our separation he said he wanted to sell the house and move closer to work to reduce his commute. My response to that was I felt it was better to wait it out until our mortgage was up for renewal as we will likely never again be able to borrow money at such a low interest rate. That, combined with the real estate market being in a slump meant that we'd be lucky to make any sort of profit and very well might have to accept a loss. It just didn't make much financial sense to me.
Had H made it clear to me that it was the financial pressure he was experiencing was his reason for wanting to move, I would've been all for it. I mean, it is just a building. I don't want H to be feeling financially strapped. We have opposing philosophies when it comes to money management. I am perfectly content living within a strict budget, H needs the freedom to buy what he wants when he wants it. It never even crossed my mind that it could bother him as much as it apparently did. The solution to this now seems simple enough, to separate our finances. Had I thought of and suggested this sooner, we probably could've avoided countless heated discussions. It just occured to me that perhaps H felt I was treating him like my child, limiting him and putting him on restrictions. Oy! Honestly at this point, I'd be happy living in a tent if it meant our family could stay intact.
So this was the second realtor we've had come in to give us a suggested listing price. Looks like my assumptions were correct, that we will be lucky to break even and may have to accept a loss after paying legal fees, realtor fees and mortgage penalties.
Aside from the bad news I had already expected from the realtor, the evening went pretty well. I invited H to join D12 and I for dinner and he agreed. This is huge to me, since it was only two months ago, he wouldn't even set foot in the house unless absolutely necessary. During dinner H told me he really misses my cooking. I had to silently chuckle to myself since I know H's cooking ability involves not much more beyond fish sticks & fries or kraft dinner. Well, I'd miss my cooking too, if that were the case. So I took pity upon him and offered for him to take all the leftovers, which he happily accepted. I'm not sure if this was a mistake or not, that I should be letting him lay in the bed that he's made for himself? Although on the flip side of the coin it's something I would do for a friend who couldn't cook. And I am trying to rebuild our friendship but I'm not sure if this could be coming on too strong. I'm probably over-analyzing this too much...
But dinner did go well. We joked around a lot with D12, just enjoying each other's company. It was really nice to eat together as a family again.
Almost forgot to mention something else that happened last night.
At one point my hackles came up. I let my anger get the best of me, not a good thing.
Once the house sells, I am planning on moving back to the city where we originally came from, so is H. H mentioned, that if by some miracle the house sells before the end of the school year that his parents have suggested that they keep D12 during the week.
That went over like a lead balloon. My response probably could've been a little more calmly and kindly worded.
"So your parents want to keep her during the week, you get her on weekends, leaving me without custody? F*** THAT!"
"They were just trying to help."
I just looked at him and didn't say anything more about it. Thankfully, he changed the topic. Hopefully he realized how absurd a suggestion it was. I admit, the mama bear claws had come out and they were sharp. But honestly, did he really think I'd be cool with it?
Geez, I wish he'd grow a backbone and tell his parents that this isn't their situation to handle and to butt out...
I also have a couple of questions regarding setting goals as a way to measure success. I understand that I have to be fairly specific with my goals, but how specific exactly? Ultimately I want a happy marriage and I know I have to break that down into smaller steps. After reading Gottman's Seven Principles, I know that a solid friendship is the foundation of every happy marriage so I must restore my friendship with H. I know that's way too broad a goal and I need to break that down further.
So how many smaller goals is it best to be working on at one time as a means of working toward a larger goal? What I mean is, if my larger goal is to rebuild our friendship, and my broken down fractions of that goal is to get him to go golfing with me, having longer, more meaningful conversations, going out to dinner together, or out for drinks, should I be focusing on only one of those smaller fractions at a time?
Or are these smaller goals I've set still too broad?
Actually I have already managed to get H to join me out for dinner once already. Yay me!
For how long is it best to watch and see if something is working before ditching it and trying something different?
Thanks for any input!
This being on moderation thing is the pits. I understand the reasoning behind it and it makes perfect sense. But it makes it difficult at a time when I could really use the input. I guess I can chalk it up to being another lesson in patience.
So we signed the papers yesterday and the house is listed on the market. I am much more sad about it than I had anticipated. I thought I had fully prepared myself for it. I was wrong. Had a good cry about it after H and the realtor left. This was supposed to be our 'forever' house. I guess it's just another layer of the unrealized dreams grieving that all LBS's go through. Every time I notice that sign in my front yard, it puts a lump in my throat.
I really hope someone sees my thread soon. I'm feeling a bit foolish just talking to myself.
Oh look at that! I'm off moderation. Yay for me!
sorry you are here Dory
the most important thing is to work on yourself
hugs
Hi Dory. I have been scouring my old threads for a few things that might help you. I just came across some personal goals that I set for myself in the early days. Maybe they will be useful to you.
"My goals:
1. Become a better person;
2. Learn to control my ego;
3. Learn what love means to me;
4. Learn to love my W unconditionally;
5. To become a better H;
6. Learn to be more in control of my personal happiness;
7. Understand my share in the breakdown of my M;
8. To be resilient through the worst disaster of my life - the breakdown of M;
9 To be strong and confident through this;
10. To maintain hope no matter how dark things may become in the future."
Denver
dory
I haven't read the whole story but I will. There are great people here.
Keep posting.
Hi Denver good to see you!
dory
I haven't read the whole story but I will. There are great people here.
Keep posting.
Hi Denver good to see you!
Great to see you too Gritter!!!
Here is something that helped me tremendously Dory:
The Lighthouse
Your spouse is in huge conflict. The good news is; and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now. The competition that we believe exists with the Other Person is a shallow, empty reflection of God's light in this world. It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush.
Their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now. Though the need to go back again and again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong, they do not like what they are doing.
Their actions toward you, the children, the Other Person, and themselves, as well as God, keep them from engaging in any type of real interaction with any real depth and truth.
All they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life. Yet the filling is way too fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lies down, regardless of whom is next to them.
They are the living cliche of 'no matter where you go, there you are.'
They are lost to themselves.
And you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home, even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing the beacon.
You become the lighthouse. You fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary.
Just visualize yourself as a lighthouse.
You offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get. You invite them toward it. Let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way.
You cannot trust them right now, but you know that, so they can't hurt you right now. They will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better.
You show the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions. Set clear boundaries that the Other Person is not part of your children's lives...without Love Busting. Offer alternatives that let them see the children, but be clear that the Other Person is to have no access to them. You fill the children's lives with stability. They deserve it and need it more than anything else.
Do not discuss or powerstruggle with them on irrational movements. Seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly.
Your spouse is very lonely and sad right now, but that is ok. No one can stay very long in that chaos. Remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos, and eventually they will see that you are the only one who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most.
Be the lighthouse.
Denver,
Just wanted to pop in here to say: This post is inspirational.
Such an important perspective.
Thank you very much.
NLW
Oh look at that! I'm off moderation. Yay for me!
OK glad you are off too, sorry you got ignored but it is not intentional believe me.
Keep posting and you will start to move forward, selling the house is the pits.
What are you doing for you?
I'm going to have to do a fly-by post here as I am short on time this morning.
Hi Dory. I have been scouring my old threads for a few things that might help you. I just came across some personal goals that I set for myself in the early days. Maybe they will be useful to you.
"My goals:
1. Become a better person;
2. Learn to control my ego;
3. Learn what love means to me;
4. Learn to love my W unconditionally;
5. To become a better H;
6. Learn to be more in control of my personal happiness;
7. Understand my share in the breakdown of my M;
8. To be resilient through the worst disaster of my life - the breakdown of M;
9 To be strong and confident through this;
10. To maintain hope no matter how dark things may become in the future."
Denver
Thanks Denver, I appreciate your input. I'm assuming you mean that I should also be setting personal goals for myself?
With the help of my therapist, for the most part I have been doing just that, although I admit, our sessions for the past 4 1/2 months have been mostly focused on me trying to regain my footing after my marriage falling apart & trying to dissect what went wrong in hopes of not repeating the same mistakes. According to my therapist, my H's illness throws a monkey wrench into the situation, as she doesn't know him other than what I've told her & it's hard to predict his behaviour & reactions while he's still chemically unbalanced.
So my personal goals for myself are fairly in line with what you have written for yourself. So thank you for the reminder. I do sometimes have a tendency to get overly focused on some things and in the meantime, allow other things fall by the wayside. I have to learn to keep reminding myself to keep looking at the bigger picture and strive for better balance in my life.
I will post some more responses to each of you later today when I have more time. But thank you everyone so far for your input/advice, I really do appreciate it!
Thanks Denver, I appreciate your input. I'm assuming you mean that I should also be setting personal goals for myself?
Yes. You can't control your H, his actions, words, choices, or feelings. Setting goals for yourself helps you focus. Usually these goals will only help your marital issues, but focusing on them as personal goals is a good way to go about it.
I must admit that later in my sitch, I added an 11th goal... "Save my F'n Marriage"... LOL... Obviously, that is the reason that we all ended up here on this site.
I must admit that later in my sitch, I added an 11th goal... "Save my F'n Marriage"... LOL... Obviously, that is the reason that we all ended up here on this site.
Thanks for the laugh, Denver! I really needed that! I'll have to look up your previous posts & read up on your sitch. It sounds like you and your W are piecing? If that's the case, I think that's fantastic!
I wasn't able to get back here yesterday. I had an intense therapy session & ended up having to white-knuckle it on the way home since it was snowing. So I'll add to my personal goals: Must become more confident while driving in winter conditions. Maybe a driving lesson or two is in my future...a bit of a sad state of affairs seeing that I'm Canadian.
So I was pretty exhausted by the time I got home. Then I noticed that the cat had spent the previous night & most of the day yesterday shut in one of the bedrooms in the basement & peed all over the recliner - so the room absolutely reeks of cat urine. I texted H & asked him if he could help me move the chair up into the garage so hopefully I can clean it & get the smell out. He's coming over tonight to get that done and is going to stay for dinner. D12 has been bugging me for the past couple of weeks to order Chinese & I've been hesitant because of the amount of leftovers & I don't like food going to waste. So it seemed like a good enough reason to invite H to stay & join us for dinner. He accepted the invitation.
Now, I know this ^^^ comes across as pursuing...
At what point is it ok (if ever) to go against some of the 37 rules? The past several weeks H has accepted every invitation for dinner (only 3 since New Year's). I've been trying to play it cool and keep it all to a minimum as I don't want to re-engage in the pursuer/distancer dance. I'm trying to take it as slow as I can & it seems to be working but I am so afraid of messing this up & having to start all over again. Any advice from some more experienced DB'ers?
I also wanted to add that I am 99.9% certain that there is no OW. I really don't believe that H is capable of it. H has some pretty strong opinions about infidelity (FIL cheated on MIL & H's XW did the same with H's former best friend) as well as strong opinions about those who engage in it. If anything, my main competition for H's attention has been his work. He's very career oriented.
It's funny...last weekend when H was here I caught myself just staring at him a couple of times & thinking to myself, "He's so cute!" ... like I'm some sort of googly eyed teenager. Geez, Louise! I need to get a grip.
What are you doing for you?
Going to therapy is my main thing right now. I've been doing some CBT work & the exercises/homework my T gives me takes up a good amount of my time. Some of my homework includes reading self help books she's recommended.
I've changed my hair colour.
I've been looking into going back to school & figuring out what upgrading I'd need to make this a possibility.
I've replaced my wardrobe.
I've been going out with/keeping in touch with friends more than I have in the past.
Although I haven't been able to yet, I do plan on getting back to the gym daily (as I once was) as soon as my AD's kick in & my energy and motivation return.
Hi Dory,
You have had quite the time but you still have a sense of humor. I like that.
About the 37 rules, guidelines, suggestions I think the important thing is to do what works. If it's getting you closer to your goals, keep it up.
So it seemed like a good enough reason to invite H to stay & join us for dinner. He accepted the invitation.
Now, I know this ^^^ comes across as pursuing...
I don't think so, he was there, you an D were going to eat so you invited him. It gave D some time with him.
Like I said above, do what works.
At what point is it ok (if ever) to go against some of the 37 rules?
I also wanted to add that I am 99.9% certain that there is no OW. I really don't believe that H is capable of it. H has some pretty strong opinions about infidelity (FIL cheated on MIL & H's XW did the same with H's former best friend) as well as strong opinions about those who engage in it.
You're welcome for the laugh, but I meant it when I listed it on my own thread. I believe in having the goals, applying a strategy to reaching those goals, and measuring our success as move along. Others would argue with me on this, but I have refused to accept that possibility that I would not be successful with my goals. I've had let downs, and I always haven't followed the DB strategy, or even my own strategy at times. But I've approached this like Rocky and have refused to give up.
I used to believe that I was in 'piecing' every time my W would agree to speak with me or see me for whatever reason. I'm exaggerating a bit, lol, but my point is that I was WAY to optimistic whenever I'd have positive things happen. 'Piecing' is only when both spouses are committed to the M and to reconciliation. I'm not there yet. And once we are there, it is a life long process. We will always be 'piecing'.
I'd say that you should stick very closely to the 37 rules for now. Your invitations are pursuing behavior. Pursuing behavior is also usually pressuring behavior.
Leave him be. Follow the 37 rules... or those that are applicable anyway.
Wait. See if you start seeing small signs of improvement.
Optimally, what we'd like to see is some pursuit from him. But that won't happen if you are pursuing him.
Lastly, on a down note, and please don't let this upset you... but I'd be careful in discounting the possibility of a OW. I said the same stuff about my W and was in denial. I hope that you are right, but I also don't want to see you blown out of the water with that bomb if it happens.
Hang in there.
Denver
LOL! Yeah, it's about as clear as mud!
What I think I'll do is back off a bit with the dinner invitations. He had dinner with us on New Year's, once last week & then again last night. I figure I better not push my luck and hold off for a while.
So H came over after work last night. We got the stinky chair moved into the garage & ordered Chinese. I packaged up some of the leftovers for him to take home, which he appreciated.
One thing I noticed last night is that his posturing towards me is starting to change...for over a year his body language when interacting with me has been very closed off - I've even mentioned this to him numerous times (pre-bomb) which was met with the standard, "I don't know what you're talking about."
But last night this was not the case. His face seemed more relaxed, his arms weren't crossed and he could manage to keep eye contact with me for longer than a split second. Now I can't say that it's H making an actual effort or if it's all subconscious on his part...I don't know if this is the first instance of it or the first time I've noticed the change. Whatever the case may be, I'll take it as a positive step forward.
When I was leaning over trying to get the dishes into the dishwasher, I did catch H trying to get a glimpse down my shirt. Whether this is just a male reflex or something more to it, it doesn't really matter to me. I'm just glad I was wearing one of my pretty bras.
After H left for the night I went to sit down to watch some TV and turn on the fireplace but saw that the pilot light had gone out (we had some really strong wind gusts yesterday which I suspect is the culprit). So after a few failed attempts to reignite it, I called H to see if there was some special trick to getting it lit. H told me it's a real PITA & to just shut the whole thing off & he would come by tonight to reignite it. Well...yeah, I know it's a pain, I've yet to be successful in getting it lit, ever. So I thanked H and hung up the phone. Well I must say, my stubborn persistence paid off and after about 45 minutes of trying I finally got the thing to ignite and stay on. So I texted H and told him thanks for the offer to come by and do it for me, but I got the pilot going.
Ok I know this ^^^ might sound like much ado about nothing, but really, it isn't. Not for me anyway. I can paint, I can drywall, I can do minor plumbing & electrical and handle most power tools, but getting that stupid pilot light to ignite and stay lit has evaded me for years. I really am quite pleased with myself about it.
Lastly, on a down note, and please don't let this upset you... but I'd be careful in discounting the possibility of a OW. I said the same stuff about my W and was in denial. I hope that you are right, but I also don't want to see you blown out of the water with that bomb if it happens.
No worries, Denver. You haven't upset me. This was actually one of the first questions my T asked me after the bomb was dropped. I've braced myself for it but really the odds of it, I think, are in my favour. I see it about as likely as my H telling me he's gay or that he's worked for CSIS throughout our M. In other words, although it would really shock me, I've definitely prepared myself for just about anything being a possibility.
ohboyohboyohboyohboyohboyohboyohboy...
I'm hitting unprecedented territory here.
H just sent a text asking me how my day is going.
I'm about ready to jump out of my own skin. This is the first text in I don't know how many months that he's asked me that. I need to play it cool. I NEED to play it cool!
I'm going to wait at least a few hours to reply, or should I not even bother? I have to talk to him sometime tonight to arrange for a time he can pick up D12 tomorrow. Do I just text him later & say, "Day's been great, yours? 10am work for you tomorrow?" or just skim over it & ask him if 10am works for him?
Somebody please help! I don't want to mess this up!
"Day has been great. Thanks for asking. How does 10 tomorrow work for you?"
Don't ask him questions... Don't show too much emotion. Get him wondering.
Denver
Thanks so much for your help, Denver. I really appreciate it! I will respond to his text just as you've written it.
Journalling:
A couple of days ago H sent me an email asking me if I'd be ok with him reducing his CS payment, "just this once", as he received an enormous electric bill for the house that he wasn't anticipating. Based on past experience, I know better than to trust his words regarding finances. I asked him to bring me the bill so I could see the useage because the amount he said it was just didn't make any sense (nevermind that we're on equal monthly installments). I figured there must've been some mistake with the billing. Either that or he was lying about it.
He brought me the bill. First thing I noticed was that he hasn't paid them in 3 months, thus the huge amount owing.
"Well, the bill hasn't been paid in three months. That explains why it's so high."
"It's the first bill I've got from them."
I just looked at him. "Yes I can afford a reduced CS payment."
"Thank you."
This is a huge 180 for me. The old me would've jumped at him by this point and said something judgemental and/or contemptuous. Or asked him why he thinks it's acceptable to ask to reduce his CS payment, instead of asking FIL to accept a smaller rent checque. But I didn't. Accepting a smaller CS payment will not be a consistent 180 for me though. The old me would've also told him to set up an automatic payment with the bank to avoid this happening in the future, but I bit my tongue. I probably also would've wondered out loud how it's possible for someone to make it to their 40's and not have it cross their mind that the obligation to pay the bill still exists, even if their billing department is lagging. But his financial mismanagement is no longer my business or my problem. So I let it go.
Then last night D12 complains to me that her toilet is broken & not flushing. I took at look at it & saw what needed fixing but had no clue how to do it myself. So I texted H & asked him if when he came over this morning to pick up D, could he please take a look at it and let me know if he knew how to fix it, otherwise I would have to call a plumber in. He didn't answer my text.
So H comes over this morning & is acting all business about it. Takes apart the broken piece, says he has to buy a repalcement part, takes it with him & walks back to the front door. He tells D to get her shoes on, he's ready to go. As D was getting her shoes on, I could see out of the corner of my eye that H was staring at me. As soon as I looked towards him, he looked away. Weird.
I don't know what to make of it.
More weirdness with H last night.
H brought D12 home and put in the replacement part for her toilet so it's now working again. I thanked him and he left. He was still acting very robotic/business-like/cold last night. I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out what's suddenly different...I have pulled back and been more dim with him the past couple of days, I don't know if that's it. Or my 180 with not freaking out about the hydro bill may have thrown him, I'm not sure. Or it could be something completely unattached to having anything to do with me or our sitch.
Any ideas? I don't know if this is something that I should anticipate happening when things start to look more positive? I know not to have any expectations, but then I also know that there are some universal patterns/scripts when it comes to WAS. Is this one of those times or have I set myself up for all this confusion?
It's times when there's a sudden shift in how things seem to be going that gets me confused.
Any input would be appreciated!
Try not to figure it out. Useless waste of time and energy. If he begins to turn, you will know. Keep detaching and LRTing. You'll know soon enough if it is working.
Hey everyone,
I could use a little advice about how to handle something regarding my H, my inlaws & boundaries.
I just spoke to my realtor. Apparently my inlaws have taken it upon themselves to email our realtor (&cc'd H) with a laundry list of complaints about our listing, the photos & how it's worded & demanding it be corrected their way.
I am at a loss as to what to do, if anything about this. H has some real problems with drawing boundaries with his parents & it's been a huge issue during the course of our marriage. Any boundaries I have tried to set myself (for instance, not answering the door when they show up unnanounced, after being asked to call first.) has been met with anger and me being labelled as "mean & unreasonable".
At this juncture, especially regarding H's mental health issues, and their inability/unwillingness to even acknowledge them, I believe that their interference lack of respect that H is an automonous indivudal could eventually lead H back over the edge.
I'm tempted to flash off an email telling them to back off, that this isn't their situation to handle & that I resent their interference, however I do not want to go over H's head. I can also just try to talk to H about it, but it is not consistent with my 180 of avoiding any complaints to H about his parents' behaviour.
That being said, I think this time, they have gone way too far.
Any suggestions? I'm really at a loss as to what to do.
Tell your H first. Then if he refuses, you talk to your in-laws directly. Tell them that you appreciate their help, but it is your home and would like to take care of things yourself with your H. Say it firmly.
Thanks, MrBond. I just wasn't sure, considering my 180 to avoid the topic of my IL's.
I spoke to H on the phone about it yesterday. I did manage to stay calm about it, so at least the 180 wasn't completely dropped.
It wasn't terrible, but it could've gone better...
I started off the convo saying that it was hard for me to bring it up, I didn't want to upset him but I felt it was too important to me to just let it go. That IL's interference in our business has been an ongoing issue in our M and that previously, out of respect for his wishes, I had let things slide and never said anything to them about my feelings - which I believe now was a mistake as IL's behaviour has escalated to now what I see as blatant meddling.
H was annoyed and became very defensive. He felt that his parents were only trying to help, that they had done nothing wrong & that they were offering constructive feedback. That that's what people do when you put your house on the market, they look at the listing and give their opinions about it.
My response to that was that I never asked for their opinion and our realtor never asked for their opinion (I'm almost certain that H never asked for their opinion either, but didn't say that). I asked him if he remembered some of the things we had discussed with our realtor on the day that we signed our contract. (the weather was dark and horrible that day & our realtor had already said that he would return once it brightened up to re-take photos so they would appear better in the listing but it was better to at least have something initially, rather than nothing).
He said he remembered.
I told him that I felt that sending the email was insulting to our ability to handle things on our own as adults, and the content was insulting to our realtor and his capabilities and knowledge of how to do his job.
I said that there was nothing I could do about his own willingness or unwillingness to accept this sort of behaviour from his parents, it was his choice; But that it just isn't something I can tolerate any more. That when it involves me and effects me and my business, it just couldn't happen anymore. I told him that I would leave it up to him how to handle it. If he wasn't comfortable telling his parents to back off, that I would do it. But that something needed to be done.
H spewed off a pot shot about my parents, saying that at least his parents are better parents than mine, which I ignored. (It's comparing apples to oranges. My parents were physically & emotionally abusive up until I cut off contact with them several years ago)
Then there was a looooong pause...
H then said that he would make sure that anything they did in the future wouldn't effect me.
I told him that I was getting the impression that he thought I was being ridiculous or unreasonable and asked him if that was the case. (his tone was setting off some red flags, which is why I asked him this)
Another long pause...
He said he disagreed with me, he didn't think that his parents were being intrusive. But he understood that my perspective was different. That since I felt that my business was being infringed upon, it wasn't ridiculous or unreasonable.
I then expressed to H that I had some very real fears about things between us going south. That based on past experience, things between us have quickly become hostile when his parents involved themselves in descisions that should be made between himself and I. I used Christmas as the most recent example. (Christmas was an absolute disaster & H even agreed that his parents and sister were manipulating us both to fuel our anger and manipulate the situation to suit their own adjenda. In the end, it was D12 was the one who was hurt the most). I told him that I'm happy with how well we are relating with each other and didn't want to see that become compromised.
H let out a huge sigh. "I said I would make sure that you wouldn't be effected by them in the future, what more do you want?"
I told him that I didn't feel like I was being heard.
H then said that he's also happy with how well we are getting along lately and starting to rebuild a friendship.
I thanked him for that.
We then talked a bit about D12 and what was going on with her, about my therapy lately, about his current psych issues (which now has me worried even more about him), about a couple of showings and the open house our realtor has planned for the weekend.
So the conversation at least ended on a good note. Then later last night we had a short text exchange about some of my therapy homework that ended with us saying goodnight to each other.
What an emotionally exhausting day. I really hate rollercoasters.
H then said that he would make sure that anything they did in the future wouldn't effect me.
Should have ended the conversation right here.
[/quote] I told him that I was getting the impression that he thought I was being ridiculous or unreasonable and asked him if that was the case. (his tone was setting off some red flags, which is why I asked him this)
Another long pause...
He said he disagreed with me, he didn't think that his parents were being intrusive. But he understood that my perspective was different. That since I felt that my business was being infringed upon, it wasn't ridiculous or unreasonable.
I then expressed to H that I had some very real fears about things between us going south. That based on past experience, things between us have quickly become hostile when his parents involved themselves in descisions that should be made between himself and I. I used Christmas as the most recent example. (Christmas was an absolute disaster & H even agreed that his parents and sister were manipulating us both to fuel our anger and manipulate the situation to suit their own adjenda. In the end, it was D12 was the one who was hurt the most). I told him that I'm happy with how well we are relating with each other and didn't want to see that become compromised.
H let out a huge sigh. "I said I would make sure that you wouldn't be effected by them in the future, what more do you want?"
I told him that I didn't feel like I was being heard.
H then said that he's also happy with how well we are getting along lately and starting to rebuild a friendship.
I thanked him for that.
[/quote]
All of this ^^^? Pressuring and nagging behavior. Sorry Dory. After he said that he'd make sure that it didn't happen anymore, you sought affirmation from him and began R talk. Stop.
Sorry for the 2x4 Dory. JMO.
Denver
No, Please don't apologize Denver! This is exactly why I posted what I could remember about our convo, is to get feedback. 2x4's are completely welcomed!
At the time, it just seemed to be the natural flow of how our conversations usually go when we hit a hiccup, but I can definitely see now how it comes across as pressuring/nagging on my part. My bad. No wonder H's tone was the way it was, it's all just more of the same on my part.
Ugh, it's so obvious how insecure I really am. And I thought I hid it so well...clearly it's time for me to redirect some of my focus to taming my insecurities.
Thanks again, Denver! I honestly wouldn't have seen it without having it pointed out to me. I appreciate your help.
journaling:
In terms of personal development, the past week or so has been pretty exciting for me. I've been reading Melody Beattie's Codependent No More and at the risk of sounding melodramatic, I can see that it's becoming one of those life changing books that's (hopefully permanently) shifting my way of thinking.
My insight is expanding and my perspective on how I'm viewing myself and those around me is changing in ways that I had never before imagined. It's hard to explain, but I am definitely feeling a lightness in being able to put down emotions I've insisted on carrying with me for most of my life.
Then last night I was watching the season premiere of Oprah's Lifeclass. Iyanla Vanzant (love her!) was on the show talking about working through emotional pain, past or present. I cannot even begin to count the number of things she said that resonated with me. One of the things she said that struck a chord, which relates to my struggles with codependence & was in reference to Psalm 23:5, is that there's a personal responsibility to keep your cup full to overflowing: What's in the cup is for you to keep, what overflows is for everybody else. Wow!
Then there was a gentleman on the show who spoke about his struggles with being emotionally stuck in his inability to move forward and beyond his past mistakes of struggling with alcoholism, despite maintaining sobriety for over ten years. He felt his life was still in shambles, he would be homeless if it weren't for his adult daughter giving him her sofa to sleep on, he had difficulty gaining and maintaining employment, etc, etc...Iyanla Vanzant said something to him that I will never forget: "You're stuck because you've become addicted to your story." Another wow!
Anyway, after the week I've had reading this new book, combined with the insights I've gained after watching Oprah's Lifeclass last night, I became very excited about what I've learned and how positive I was feeling. I SO wanted to call H and talk to him about it. I didn't. I realized that after seventeen years, for the first time I no longer have him as my "go to" person to share and discuss these sorts of things with. Although it didn't squash my excitement, it certainly added an element of sadness, loss and lonliness. It occured to me that at this moment in my life I no longer have a "go to" person. Another void I've begun to realize. More reason to miss my H.
And more reason to realize that you don't really NEED a 'go to' person. We WANT that, but we don't NEED it Dory.
Absolutely Denver.
The thing is, this is such a foreign thing for me. I just have to sit with it and let the feelings about it come.
I was still a teenager when I met my H and married young so I don't know adult life without a "go to" person. I'm learning very quickly that because I married so young, there's certain rites of passage that most go through that I have yet to experience, until now. Experiencing pure independence, being only one. It's just all so different from anything I've ever known. Not bad or good necessarily, just different. If that makes any sense?
It makes perfect sense Dory. And I think that you are doing great!
Denver
Thanks Denver.
More journaling:
It's been an interesting week. I've been darker than usual with H the past few weeks. Under the guidance of my therapist I've gone against some of the DB principles and even went so far as having R talk with my H. My therapist suspects that because of H's psychiatric illness, he doesn't fully fall in the category of a typical WAS and I tend to agree.
H has always been fully supportive of my therapy and I've been able to use that to my advantage (wow that sure sounds manipulative). As part of my therapy I've been doing nightly thanksgiving/appreciation exercises where I've been emailing or texting 3 people in my life something that I appreciate or like about them and then I journal something I appreciate or like about myself and something about the world/univerise that I appreciate. It's meant to get myself into the habit of thinking more positivitely. H is one of the 3 that I've chosen as I figured it would be a win/win for the both of us (afterall, who doesn't like hearing nice things about themself?) and hopefully benefit our R, as I suspect that H was feeling that I was taking him for granted. My therapist thought that my reasoning was a good idea, as long as H was ok with it and I made sure that H felt no obligation to respond. H is completely fine with it.
Well I've been doing this for over a month and last week was the first we've talked about it since I started doing it. H brought it up by saying that he thinks it's working for me, that I don't seem to be such a negative nelly anymore. He then went on to say that he's a bit disappointed the times I've forgotten to do it and that he's begun to look forward to reading them in the mornings because some of things I talk about happened long ago, things he's completely forgotten about and some of it makes him laugh.
Something I wasn't expecting, that's for sure. Seems I've reminded him of some really good times we've had without meaning to. I'll take it as a positive sign that at least he's no longer stuck in black and white thinking.
I honestly don't remember how it turned to R talk. But it was good and it was calm and we agreed to resume the conversation at a later time. H talked about how he felt that he never got any alone time to himself and that he's finding that he's really enjoying his alone time. I told him that I can completely understand that, that as a SAHM I have that luxury while D is in school. That while he's at work, he's pulled in a thousand different directions and when he gets home, he still feels an obligation to engage with D and I and he never really took the time for himself to just be alone to think and regroup. H said for this very reason he is dreading his parents coming home. I told him that I can completely understand that as well. (I did not tell him, but I am also dreading my IL's coming home. I really fear that my MIL will resume feeding H her koolaid...although who knows? Maybe it will be enough space and distance that H will start to recognize it for what it is.)
H said at this point in time he's unable to commit either way to D or R. He said he feels bad about that and feels like he's stringing me along and being totally unfair to me. I laughed a little and told him not to presume that he has that much power and influence over me and that I'll do whatever it is that I want to do. I told him that I meant it when I said in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I said to him that he doesn't hold all the cards either, that if we were to attempt R our M, there's a lot of things that I'd also want to see change. H acknowledged that it's both of us who messed things up. (another sign he's no longer stuck in black and white thinking).
H then confessed that things at work aren't going so well. That in the past year or so he's really slacked off and let a lot of things slide. It's starting to reflect in his numbers and that he now has the president and senior VP breathing down his neck. If he doesn't turn things around quickly, he's likely going to lose his job. I tried reassuring him, telling him that he's very good at what he does; That his management team and staff respect him and hold him in high regard so I didn't think it would be an issue in getting their cooperation. He said he knows exactly what he needs to do to get things turned around. I told him I know he does and that I have faith that he'll be successful in getting it done.
(on a side note) ^^^^^ I did tell my therapist about this. She said she's not surprised, that it's an indication of how sick he really is and how his mental illness has crept into every facet of his life. She said this is exactly why I shouldn't take much of what H says about our M too seriously until he gets well again.
On Saturday I told H that if he didn't already have plans for Easter dinner, he's welcome to have Easter dinner with D12 and I. He asked, "when's Easter?" I told him. He said, "sure, that would be great." I then asked him if he had any requests for dinner.
"Tuna casserole."
"What?!?"
"Tuna casserole."
"Are you serious?"
"Yeah. Is that a hard thing to make?"
At this point I was doubled over in laughter.
"What's so funny?"
"Nothing (trying to control my laughter). I was expecting you to ask for pork tenderloin or chateaubriand or something like that. Not tuna casserole! Tuna casserole is what you make for dinner when you've forgotten to take something out of the freezer to defrost. It takes longer to bake than it does to assemble it."
"Well I like your tuna casserole. Is that okay?"
Me still laughing, "Yes it's okay. I can make tuna casserole for Easter dinner."
Ya know, I can't help but love that man. If he were a woman, he'd be the exact opposite of high maintenence.
Journaling:
H came over for Easter dinner. We had a good time, he even stayed after dinner to watch a movie with D12 and I.
On Monday I did something incredibly stupid. I'm not proud of myself at all and fear I may have set myself back several steps with H. One of H's buddies gave me a call in the afternoon and asked if he could borrow my pressure washer. It was a nice day out and he said to make sure I had some cold beer, that he would hang out for a couple of beers and catch up. I haven't had anything to drink in months, so my tolerance to alcohol is pretty much nil. So he came over, we had a couple of beers on the sundeck, we talked for a couple of hours, he took the pressure washer and left. By the time this friend of H's left I was feeling pretty good, inebriated you might say. At this point not thinking too clearly, I had another beer. H called. The conversation actually went well, I'm pretty happy and friendly when I've been drinking, thank goodness. Of course, my inhibitions were down so I was able to talk to H without any reservations, without any anxiety or worry that I was going to say the wrong thing to upset him, it felt good, like old times. We talked for about twenty minutes or so...
This is where I ran into trouble and got stupid. It was the first time in months I was able to talk to H freely, without fearing any misstep. I realized how badly I miss that ease of talking with him, how badly I miss having my best friend and how it feels to talk to him without feeling I need to censor myself. That I really miss his friendship. I was feeling very nostalgic.
So under the influence and stupid me, decided to act on my impulses and got out my phone. Didn't drunk dial him but sent him plenty of drunk texts. Think of the dufus at a party who has had a couple too many and gets going with the I love you talk...except in text form.
Fortunately I didn't get too deep into it, I stopped short of the I love you talk. But I did drone on and on about how much I missed him and his friendship and wished for that kind of camaradie again. Three texts total, albeit long ones.
Unfortunately I didn't realize until after I had sent the texts that this is probably the worst week I could've done this. H is already under an enormous amount of stress and pressure with his job and his boss and company president are in town this week. At least I didn't say anything offensive or mean, but I can pretty much count on this not being what H needed to hear from me this week. So I sent a final text apologizing for being a drunken idiot, that I don't want to stress him out and wishing him luck with his meetings this week.
H didn't respond to any of it. And I haven't talked to him since. Could be because I've made him feel totally uncomfortable, could be because he didn't have his phone on and never got the texts (unlikely), could be because he's overloaded with work this week. Whatever it is, I'm afraid I've messed up big time.
I don't know if I should address this with H next time I talk to him and apologize again or if I should just ignore it and pretend it didn't happen.
I feel like a real jacka$$.
I think we've all done something very similar.
The sky did not fall, life goes on.
Lesson learned.
Thanks, labug.
I guess I'm feeling like a big dolt since I knew better in the first place...I'm thinking the beer that's left in the fridge is better off being used as a hair rinse.
If I did make H anxious or uncomfortable, it's probably not a good idea to mention it unless he does.
Wow, I didn't realize it had been this long since I've posted on my sitch...
I did speak to H about my drunken texts. I apologized, he didn't see it as a big deal so fortunately for me, it went smoothly. Thank God!
Later on that week I had a pretty intense therapy session that left my head reeling (topics unrealated to my M, but still somewhat related as it effects my current thoughts and behaviour patterns). I left the session feeling completely out of sorts, my therapist and I had agreed to take a two week break to give myself a chance to absorb and process what was brought up during the session. After a few days I was still feeling off balance, still trying to process it all and not having an easy time of it. H and I were talking and he had asked how my therapy was going, which is not uncommon for him to ask. I told him about the session. Then I took the risk of asking him if he would go out to dinner with me and act as my sounding board to help me process my feelings. He's done this for me numerous times during our M but hasn't since our separation. Until now it has seemed a bit inappropriate to me to ask this of him as our relationship has changed but I was willing to take the risk, I was experiencing some real difficulty - it was either that or call my therapist and ask for an emergency session.
So H and I went out to dinner. And I spilled my guts about what I had been wrestling with since my last T session. And H offered his perspective. Within 45 minutes I felt 1000 times better. We shared some lighthearted banter, talked hockey, talked baseball, talked work, it was a good dinner. For the first time in a long LONG time, we had some moments of sustained silent eye contact, it became clear that the chemistry between us is still there. The whole thing was surprisingly very relaxed and comfortable.
Aside from a couple of texts about D12's baseball schedule I didn't really talk to H during the next week.
Early Friday evening, H called me. Very excited and very pleased with himself. Apparently H decided to knock off work early and take a couple of his managers golfing. He was so happy to have broken 80, he wanted to tell me about it. This, for H, is a really big deal. He LOVES golfing, used to golf at least once a week, but this was the first time he's been able to in over 2 years because of his leg injury and surgeries.
It was awesome to hear H excited about something again. It was awesome to hear that his game hasn't slipped too terribly after a 2 1/2 year hiatus. It was awesome that H chose to call me to share his excitement. Especially after the drunken text debacle.
I saw the opportunity and grabbed it.
I asked him out to the movies. He accepted.
We saw Amercian Reunion on Saturday night. Had some American Pie type LOL moments but the story was lame.
So, we're still in the friend zone. Things aren't progressing as quickly as I would like, they're pretty much at a snail's pace but at least they're progressing and not regressing. It's been almost six months since the bomb and H moved out. This whole sitch has taught me that I have to exercise a lot of patience.
The past six months have gone from H having total animosity towards me, where I am the reason for everything that has gone wrong in his life. From where he doesn't love me, never has and H oozing hostility with every interaction between us. To today - where he's phoning me to share his joys and excitement, where he's again willing to be my confidant for some really personal and intimate issues and share his perspective and offer me comfort. Where we're going out together and able to have a good time and enjoy each other's company.
I'll take it.
Dory thanks for the kind words on netmasters thread.
You are absolutely right about what you said.
Also the reason that I post about TIME is that this can take a lot longer than we EXPECT.
This is the reason that we need to lower our expectations.
The final reason that I post like that to all the newbies is to bring their threads up to the front.
With the way this board works and they being on moderation their posts tend to get buried.
So by posting to them they feel recognized and validated.
Simple DB techniques really.
Please keep studying posting and passing your knowledge forward.
It is what keeps us all going.
Aww, Cadet!
I'm sure the newbies appreciate it! I know I did!
H dropped a mini bombshell a few days ago. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. I'm looking for the positives but it definitely puts a big kink in my sitch.
A bit of background:
When H dropped the bomb back in October and left, I had decided I really needed a plan to become financially independent. The alimony H is giving me is plenty to live on, but it isn't going to last forever, nor should it. So I decided that once the house sells, I'll be going back to school to finish my degree in psychiatric/mental health nursing.
It's curious how life unfolds in just the way you need it sometimes.
I am a total nerd at heart.
I don't usually read novels, I think the last one I read was The Da Vinci Code (seriously). My personal library is full of fiction. Mostly self-help stuff, parenting books, spirituality, history books, some travel stuff, etc...like I said I'm a real nerd at heart. Anyway...I frequent used book stores a lot, I suppose it's my thrifty side showing through. A few months ago I found some psych nursing textbooks that weren't terribly out of date (2010) so I picked them up, thinking I may as well get a head start and hopefully I can make at least a couple of semesters a bit easier on myself.
A few days ago I was talking with H about what I'd been learning from these textbooks, telling him that I'm confident that I'm probably going to sail through most of these courses, although I might have a bit of a hard time with the pharmachology, there's a lot of psychiatric drugs out there that I'll need to know inside and out.
This is when the mini bombshell came. H confessed that prior to his psychotic episode and admission to the hospital, he'd been abusing benzodiazepines for several months. I had no idea. I mean, I knew he had the Rx but had no idea he'd been taking it more than perscribed. So much makes sense now.
A big complication but also explains so much. It pretty much explains everything. Past and present.
My feelings are still running in every direction. I think it's probably safe to assume that shame is the reason why H kept it from me for so long. I didn't ask him why so it is just an assumption.
I do know if I saw the perscribing doctor on the street I would seriously go up to him and ask him WTH was he thinking in giving H refills...
I honestly don't know what this means for our future, not that it really changes anything. It looks like it could be up to another year before it's known if any of the damage to his brain is permanent.
At least now I know what happened to my H and the reason for all his out of character behaviour.
I had to take a bit of a break from these boards, life's been very hectic the past couple of weeks, my anxiety has gone into overdrive - making it difficult for me to focus on almost anything for any sustained period of time.
The weekend before last, I learned from my brother that my grandmother suffered a stroke...thing is, my uncle's widow who found her, neglected to tell anyone in the family. It was a week after the fact that she left a VM for my brother. Some intense family drama ensued, major mudslinging, etc, etc.
My family of origin is insanely dysfunctional and toxic. I have very limited contact with my family aside from my brother and grandmother. I just can't tolerate much contact with any others, it's just far too crazymaking and my anxiety becomes close to unmanagable whenever I'm around them. Aside from my brother and grandmother, no one from my family knows a thing about my sitch or anything regarding H's mental and physical health problems. And I prefer it that way...any one of them knowing anything remotely personal about my life would be a recipe for disaster...
Throughout all this, I managed to keep myself out of the family drama. I sat back and watched it all unfold (on facebook, to boot) and kept my communciations limited to updating family members on my grandmother's health.
And then I got a nastygram email from one of my cousins, telling me I should be ashamed of myself for keeping my distance and not being a source of support for the family, especially my mother (who I haven't had any contact with in years, as she makes Joan Crawford look like June Cleaver). She got a kindly worded F you, mind your own business & I don't need your s*** response.
Gotta love those guilt trips on the crazy train to dysfunction junction!
So my anxiety has been in overdrive lately and I'm just now getting a handle on it.
Thankfully H fully understands what they're like and has been supportive throughout all of it.
We're still getting along just fine and text each other almost daily. I was afraid that once my inlaws got home from being down south for the winter, things could take a turn for the worse as they insist on involving themselves in our sitch. I figured things could go either way, H could start drinking MIL's koolaid again and start spewing vile hostility my way or, the distance of having his parents away and uninvolved for a period of time would open his eyes of how intrusive they are & have been.
It's hard to say which one it is. H is showing an incredible amount of impatience again about the house not being sold yet. It's futile for me to try to figure it out. Unless or until H tells me there's no point in even trying to guess.
Oddly enough, last night at D12's ball game was the first time I've seen or spoken to FIL since the beginning of October. Although he did leave me a happy birthday message for me on facebook a couple of weeks ago. When H told me that his dad was going to be coming to watch the ball game, I anticipated some degree of awkwardness but surprisingly, it went fine.
Today is H's birthday. I sent him a text this morning wishing him a happy birthday & last night gave him a card and a package of wine gums. I bought a starbucks gift card & card for him from D12, which she also gave to him last night. He's coming over saturday night for dinner so we can celebrate.
I've been reading How To Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It by Patricia Love & Steven Stosny. I don't recall who mentioned it here (Accuray maybe?) but whoever it was, thanks for the recommendation! Great book! It really sheds a lot of light on what I think really went wrong in my M.
My wedding anniversary is in a few weeks. I'm considering giving it to H as an anniversary gift, asking him to open it alone (so I don't see his reaction or open myself up to having any expectations).
Good idea? Bad?
Think about it, I don't know your H but he may take it as "I think you're broken, here's something to help you fix yourself."
Sorry to hear about your family stress.
Instead of a gift, what about a simple card?
That's the thing, LA. I've been thinking about it since I finished the book a couple of weeks ago...at first I considered giving it to him as a birthday gift but decided against it because I wanted to re-read it & thought that maybe, as an anniversary gift it might be received as a little more appropriate.
I don't know if he would see it as me saying to him, "you've got a problem & need to fix it," or as me pointing out his flaws or what have you. I hope not! He knows that I accept full responsibility for my part of the demise of our M, I've offered apologies for the things I recognize may have hurt him & continue to apologize as I become more aware of his perspective & how a lot of my actions were likely received. He's actually said to me more than once that I didn't do it on my own, that it's both of us who are at fault.
I can honestly say that since the bomb I've been exceptionally careful to do everything in my power to show him compassion for what it is that he's going through. When things were at their worst between us, I admit - there's a lot of things I said and did that I wish I hadn't, and a lot of it could've been easily interpreted by H as me saying, "You suck! Change! And while you're at it, fix everything so I can be happy again!" Which in reality was not at all the message I was trying to convey, which at this point doesn't really matter. What matters is that that's how H received it.
The book goes into great detail about the fear/shame dynamic and how it has the ability to destroy a M without either party doing anything wrong. The book is fantastic, I highly recommend it. And after reading this book I've gained some great insight about how we got to this. The book has offered me even more hope than I already had that our M can be R & that it wouldn't be that difficult to do.
I dunno. The last time we had any R talk H said that he isn't so dead set on D. I know it's not the same as saying that he's ready to work on our M, as much as I'd like it to be. That being said, I don't know if he's ready or willing to do anything right now but I do think that if he were to read the book it could make a difference on how he views our sitch. Our anniversary is coming up so I figure it seems the most appropriate time to give it to him.
I can only hope that my 180's of not complaining to him have proven to him that I don't see him as needing to fix anything including himself. I'm fairly certain that he wouldn't have told me about his benzo abuse & addiction if he feared my reaction or judgement. Although I could be reading too much into things or comparing apples to oranges.
Any more perspectives would be appreciated!
Thanks, verab.
I had thought about just a card but there's a bit more there for me to consider:
One of H's complaints was that I didn't make a big enough deal about special occasions. I honestly fear that if I just get him a card he'll see it as just more of the same.
Fair enough. You know your H best!
I've read the book and often recommend it. I think everyone should read it!
Did your H ever read self-help books before?
If he sees you as a fixer, I think this would be seen as more of the same.
I was never good at gifts either, and that is my H's LL, so I've been trying to do better. But a book on improving marriage might not be what your H had in mind. My H isn't a reader and I don't think he'd appreciate a book on marriage when he isn't sure what he wants.
I don't know if he would see it as me saying to him, "you've got a problem & need to fix it," or as me pointing out his flaws or what have you.
Since you even said that he might think you're pointing out his faults, I think that's a good indication that it wouldn't be a good gift for him. Find something else and if he ever hints around that he'd like to learn more or read more about it, definitely recommend and/or give him the book, but I don't see it going well as a gift
No, not really. Most of his library is full of business-type jargon. Although he has read Emotional Intellegence, Who Moved My Cheese, The New Peoplemaking, among others...he also has his certification as a FranklinCovey trainer & consultant so has read probably (I'm guessing) all of Steven Covey's books. So he's not against reading self-help books, he makes his managers read Steven Covey's stuff but he mostly does it for carreer purposes.
So he's not against reading self-help books, I'm just not sure how receptive he would be to reading one geared towards something personal...although he did read The New Peoplemaking over ten years ago, under the advice of my stepson's play therapist. But then again, he may have only done that as a method to help his son. I really couldn't say...
Honestly, I don't know if he sees me as a fixer. I don't think so but I could be wrong. In the past I've had issues surrounding codependency and I know that he found a lot of my controlling behaviour super irritating and I'm sure quite obnoxious. I can only assume (although it's a safe assumption based on what he's said and how he's behaved) that if anything, he sees himself as the fixer and when all the flashbacks of my childhood abuse reared it's ugly head, he felt defeated and angry that he couldn't fix it. And then it frustrated him to no end that there was no quick fix for it.
I have a sneaking suspicion that he approached our R issues in the same manner...No quick fix, too frustrating, so let's D.
I'm going to have to think about it more in depth, though.
You've given me some food for thought. Thanks LA.
I wouldn't give it. Strikes me as too heavy at the moment but that's just my two cents.
Geez, I really need to stop cross-posting...
Thanks for chiming in, sweetbabyred.
Maybe I should clarify. In the past, yes, I am definitely guilty of pointing out his flaws and skirting around the implication that he's the one who needs to change. I wasn't always like that and it really only became a big habit of mine when (and I didn't know it at the time) H was stoned on benzodiazepines and did nothing more than sit around and be a lump on the sofa. From my perspective, all I saw was a lazy, checked-out turd at the time. It's only been recently that he's come clean about it and what was really going on with him.
Since reading DB, I recognized right away that this was damaging to our R. So it's not behaviour he's seen in me in about 7 months. I don't know if that makes any difference.
Oh, whoa, whoa. I missed the part where you wanted to give him the book. I think it might be a little overwhelming. I agree it's a great read and I had similar dynamics in my R/M but maybe it would be better if you tried to implement some of the changes it suggests rather than giving it as an anniversary present? Maybe bring up the book when you're on less shaky ground?
Well you know that's not at all what I wanted to hear!
Bugger! I was hoping this was a good idea!
Back to the drawing board...
Just journaling a bit so I can get my thoughts and feelings a bit sorted.
I've been feeling a bit melancholy the past couple of days. I think I need to do a bit more work on trying to detach. Yesterday was the first in a long time that I've cried about H and our sitch. I think the lonliness has finally caught up with me. Sundays are the worst for that. H takes D12 every sunday & I'm usually good about keeping myself busy and keeping my mind off things but yesterday just wasn't the case.
On Saturday night, H came over for dinner so we could celebrate his birthday. Right from the get go, he seemed annoyed to even be here. At H's request I made enchiladas and strawberry shortcake for dessert. I spent most of the day saturday cooking and baking, which I was more than happy to do although I don't think I got so much as a thank you from H. Which yes, I know...I did it for the pleasure of doing something nice for H, not so he would say thank you but some sort of acknowledgement might've been nice.
After dinner I made strawberry daiquiri's for us (virgin for D12, of course)...something that I've done often during the summers for after dinner. Although H didn't say it, it was obvious by his body language and facial expressions that he was irritated by this for some reason.
H ordered a PPV movie for the three of us to watch...I don't even know what it was, some sort of action flick with a lot of big names. At one point I got up to use the bathroom and as I was walking behind the sofa to get back to my seat, I casually reached over and playfully tickled the back of H's head as I walked by. He recoiled. I felt like a total idiot. At some point during the movie I fell asleep and woke up just as it was ending. The credits were barely playing and H was already out the door.
After he left, I sent him a quick text apologizing for falling asleep, that it was kind of rude of me. No response.
I'm trying not to have any expectations. I didn't think I had any. But obviously I must if I'm feeling this disappointed about how the night went.
This past week in therapy I uncovered that I'm seriously afraid of H's temper and moods. Not because of anything he's ever done, but because of how I was raised and pretty much conditioned to be hypervigiliant about picking up on other's moods so I can predict outcomes and keep myself safe. So I don't know if that's part of why I'm feeling so glum, if it's just an unconcious reaction to his mood (which clearly I need to work on, whether that's the case or not) or if I'm disappointed in how the evening went because I was holding onto expectations.
I'm just feeling so discouraged right now.
H also said something that really struck a chord. I can't even remember what it was that we were talking about but even at the time I thought to myself, "Wow. That was really insensitive and out of left field." I don't recall verbatim what he said but it was something to the effect that he figures all his mental health problems were a result of holding in his feelings about me and our M and now that that's no longer the case, he's fine now.
Yet he's currently talking four different psychiatric drugs, one of which is an antipsychotic. But he's fine now...
Did I mention that my MIL is back in town?
And the rollercoaster is back in business. Coincidence?
He's left this morning to go out of town this week for work. I sent him a text last night asking him to drive safe & have a good week. No response.
I need to re-read DB and DR. It's time to re-evaluate the sitch and come up with a better strategy. Maybe it's time to go dim again.
Things were going so well too.
Well I seem to be pulling out of this funk I've been in the past few days. I spent most of Monday texting with H back & forth. By the end of the night I was completely drained but couldn't sleep because I was still so upset and couldn't stop ruminating about the events and my feelings over the course of the previous few days.
I apologized to him for whatever I've done to get him so upset with me. On Tuesday I spent my therapy session talking about how this has been a life-long pattern of mine: somebody acts like a jerk towards me & my immediate reaction to it is to assume that I've done something to cause it so I apologize and try to fix it. Even when it's blaringly obvious that I've done nothing to provoke such behaviour from the other person. I know where it comes from, it's just a matter of slowing myself down enough to recognize it and objectively evaluate the situation before jumping into accepting responsibility and trying to fix it. It's also a matter of me growing the gonads to confront the other person on their offending behaviour & making it clear that it's not ok with me. My fear holds me back. Fear of what, I'm not really sure yet. I do know that I hate confrontation. It's something I'll need to explore further.
My therapist suggested that H knows this pattern of mine & uses it to his advantage to avoid taking responsibility for his own actions. She has a point. He admitted that he was acting like a royal class jacka** yet never did apologize for it. He said that he was trying to control my feelings so I wouldn't get hurt. My response to him was that I couldn't understand the logic of how acting like a moody jerk was supposed to be for my benefit or to protect my feelings. He told me that he wasn't being mean on purpose, that I misunderstood him but he would make a better effort at being kind.
I didn't respond. I didn't see the point. In one breath he tells me he's being a jerk to control my feelings, which implies concious thought, and then in the next he tells me he's not doing it on purpose. It can't be both, dude. So which is it? Whatever. I saw no point in going over it, he said he'll stop trying to control my feelings (whatever that even means) and that he'll start being nicer. Now I just wait and see what happens and see if he follows through.
Last night H forwarded me some emails about D's baseball & that her coach needed written confirmation for the league that we would commit to attending provincials should her team qualify & that he needed this by tomorrow (today). I sent H a text telling him that D has been sick the past few days, hasn't been to school all week, didn't go to ball on Tuesday and likely wouldn't be going Thursday either so I wouldn't be there to sign the papers her coach needed. Surprisingly, he responded right away asking if I've caught this bug too and if I'm feeling ok.
So he is at least making an effort.
It's been a draining week. I'm glad it's close to being over.
I haven't been around much. I'm still somewhat stuck in this funk. Maybe it's the weather here, I don't know.
Since the whole fiasco with H's birthday my feelings are starting to change. I don't know if it's that I've come to a point of reaching true detachment or that I'm giving up. I'm just so tired of making all this effort to cultivate a friendship with H and see little to no reciprocation. Maybe H just is that crappy of a friend. Whatever the case may be, I'm not going to make room in my life for any one-sided relationships. I'm just done with this roller coaster. It's time to get off the ride, to step back and just see what happens.
Since then, I've limited all communication with H to things regarding D. I just don't have the energy for anything more. It wasn't a concious descision to go dark, it just sort of happened. Even the energy to act as if has gone out the window.
My wedding anniversary was on friday. Perhaps that's what has got me so down lately - just the anticipation of what I've known was going to be a hard day. I know I should've planned to fill my day and evening with GAL activities, but I didn't. I just. did. not. feel. like. it. Which is ok anyway, because without even thinking about anything regarding my M or separation, the tears just kept coming.
It didn't help matters that my realtor kept calling me all morning about about a couple who had been to the house for three showings last week had narrowed their search to ours & another house & were expected to make a descision that day. I just kept thinking, "No, God. Not today, please?" I kept thinking that it would have to be some sort of cosmic joke to have to sit through my realtor presenting an offer and negotiating a sale on my wedding anniversary. It didn't happen. Thank you, God. I don't think I would have been able to do it. Sometimes my prayers do work out the way I ask...
Then H caught me off guard that afternoon with a text saying that he would be coming by within the hour to mow the lawn. He usually does this on saturday mornings so I was a bit confused, I really didn't want to see him. I asked him why he was coming over on a friday to do it & he said that the weather forecast was for rain so he wanted to get it done while he could. I don't know what forecast he was checking, there was only a 30% POP in the ones I checked.
A few weeks ago I was contemplating what to do, if anything, for H on our anniversary. Thank you to those who chimed in. I didn't bother with a card or gift. Later that evening I sent H a text saying, "although there's nothing to celebrate, I don't want the day to go by without acknowledging it. Because it's not meaningless. Happy June 8th."
He responded by saying, "You too and you're right. But it's not necessarily happy." It's the first time since he's left that he's shown any indication that our situation hurts him too.
Of course, my feelings are subject to change at any given time. But at this point I think I may have dropped the rope. I'm just too tired to keep putting the same effort into it as I have been. Of course I'd love to see my M work out. But if it doesn't, I'm ok with that too.
Dory, I read your last few posts and maybe your H is just not a nice guy? Maybe he's just a selfish jerk and will not be happy with anyone but will try to hurt another for it?
It's hard to face that especially, when there are kids involved. But your own mental health is the most important thing for you and your D.
((()))
I'm just so tired of making all this effort to cultivate a friendship with H and see little to no reciprocation. Maybe H just is that crappy of a friend. Whatever the case may be, I'm not going to make room in my life for any one-sided relationships. I'm just done with this roller coaster. It's time to get off the ride, to step back and just see what happens.
Hi Lost, I've just read a bit on your sitch and wanted to comment. I don't know if you're read a lot about pursuit and distance, there'a a lot of good link on the board about it. But basically you need to stop making the effort for a few reasons but mainly for your own emotional health. IE if you're not putting yourself out there then you can't be hurt if he doesn't respond how you want.
My IC told me when I was going on and on about what H doesn't do she said maybe you don't give him the chance. I remember clearly 4 days after he moved out, he'd made plans to come over and spend time with us. IC had told me to just leave him alone, give him space, and see if he'd come to me. This was before I found the board and before I'd read DR and the idea was SCARY because of my neediness and control issues. Sure enough he did make plans. Then the day came and I hadn't heard from him, I didn't know what time he was even coming over and I was nervous and anxious and then angry. I told myself NOT to contact him and as soon as I made that decision he texted and said be at yours in 20 mins? If I had contacted him I would have always wondered if he had remembered or not, if he wanted to or not etc. It was the first of very very small moments.
And trust me when you detach and you stop pursuing they will notice. Just today I was thinking how are we even having a friendship. But last week he texted me out the blue about an important occasion in my professional life and today for no reason with a little joke. In between then I've heard from once, he made plans, came over, did some gardening and left. But how much better do I feel that this was all initiated BY him not me.
And everytime he texts or make plans it's because he's making a concious decision to spend time with me. You have to give them that space so that they'll miss you.
Also I think that when we do too much like at the birthday they can react badly because they feel guilty. Here you are being so nice and lovely and doing things that you the two of you used to do together and meanwhile they have ended the M.
Going dim/dark and detaching will be good for you mentally and for your friendship. You want him to initiate the contact and to miss you. And he can't do that if you're always there.
Also my IC told me that men are sometimes like rubber bands they can have a spell of being all over you and then stretch far away and then come back. She said that sometimes they need to go away and think about things.
I just realized that when I was "doing to much" to cultivate the friendship that everytime he saw a text from me or something he might be like what does she want now? And that's not how I want him to feel when I contact him.
sorry I was reading Lostin407 before didn't mean to call you by the wrong name....ooops