I don't love you anymore, but we can still be friends, was what I was told. I am a married man 36 years old married for 11 years to 35 year old wife. We have been together for 15 years. We have a S10 and D6. I am a L and work for a company that demands long work hours, but pays very well. W was not in good spirits this last weekend so I tried to do stuff with the kids to give her some time alone, since she was snapping on me and the kids. It wasn’t anything out of the ordinary typical sibling quarrels.
In 2010 W stated she was unhappy, but was willing to go to a MC. Back then rather than giving her the space she requested I was smothering her. In addition, the issues then were my long work hours and lack of help with the family. When we both talked it was agreed that I would adjust my schedule so that I would be there with the family by dinner and help with the kids. To this day I have stuck to being home by dinner and don’t regret doing so. A looming issue has been finances, when they are brought up I snap on the W.
2011 was a rough year for the family, close family friend was killed, and my W lost her job she was very passionate about. I was not concerned with her finding new employment which she did in September. With the new job I am now responsible for getting the kids ready and to school, something she has done for the last 5 years. In addition, since she is working full time I have also started doing all the laundry and domestic chores. I have to admit that I like doing these things since it lets my mind wonder.
W is a nurse so I don’t call her while she is working since I never know the schedule and like to give her some room. On her way home from work Monday I asked her what was wrong and she stated that she felt trapped and that she wanted her space, I have been smothering her. Once I took this in I came to this website and printed Sandi’s 37 rules. Following rule number 1, but it is hard as I will be the first to admit I am impatient and a “fixer.”
Wednesday Night she told me that she doesn’t love me and does not know how to fix that. I listened to her and said that I did not know what to do either. She then advised the she had a consultation with a L on 3/26. As a L myself I know the impact this will have on the family and the finances.
W took of the wedding ring and has listed herself as separated on F/B. Then blasted the news on F/B and then took the news of off F/B. I then took myself off of F/B. I am now sleeping in the spare bedroom. I am doing the best I can to interact with the W and kids (playing with them when I get home from work) and the kids have remarked that “they like the new Daddy.” W believes that this is a temporary thing and that it will pass. I say nothing when she says that and simply tell the kids I am enjoying spending time with them. This is a 180 for me because I have not been putting the effort to entertain them after I came home from work. I will admit that last 6 months have been rough on the job and I have been taking it out on the family. The last few days have made me reflect on what I need to do to become a better parent and partner.
I told her on Wednesday night that I would leave the house since it appears there is no hope of saving the R, and she became hysterical, telling me that I had to stay for the kids. I did go out for a walk and then decided to stay at the house. Honestly, I could not afford an apartment and the house note. There is a possible option of staying with relatives. This morning I got the kids ready for school and there was some light banter between us. Nothing more than small talk. Both of us have not been sleeping nor eating that much. I took the kids to their room and played with them before she left for work.
Thursday Morning was as if the conversation never occurred, the mood was light and we had some small talk. On my way home from work I picked up a couple of board games for the kids that I thought we could play. S and D loved it and we played until bed time.
She called for the first time on Friday morning and asked if I could help pay for my son't hockey (we have always had separate bank accounts, not my choice), said sure and said I would see her later.
W is taking the kids to a friends house and they are staying the weekend there. This will be the first time we have been apart. I figured I will use this time for GAL and hanging out with my brother.
I am trying to take this day by day, I have read the DB and a lot of posts on this site. With this consultation looming with the L, I am feeling that I have to fix the problems with the R before then. Realistically I know this is not possible and my head hurts trying to comprehend all of this stuff. Is W too far gone to reconcile?
Sad welcome and glad you found it. Read the divorce remedy ok. Reard and read the 37 rules again. Everything your W says and does is pure script so don't focus on that. Don't persue ILY or R talks. Post often and read others stories. One thing you will hear is to get a life and do 180s. There many lawyers on the board. Hang in there
Oh stop fixing things also
You can't fix the R, you can only fix you. One more time, you can't fix the R, you can only fix you. Focus on you and if as a byproduct your R is improved then that is fantastic, if not then at the very least you will be the best you ever!! And how can that be a bad thing. Hang in there, it will be a bumpy ride.
Well today we were blessed in WI with decent snowfall and this was the first weekend S10 did not have hockey. Took the kids sledding and then kids asked to go skiing. Something I would not do and was a striclty W thing, I am too clumsy. W was leaving until the afternoon. Told her what I was doing and she was dumbfounded. I then asked her to go. She then asked what if it doesn't work. To which I replied you can get rent a different pair of skis.
Took the kids on the tubes and she was able to ski on her own. She then thanked me and I thanked her for coming. Little small talk on the way home.
Before she left told her to have a good time. Told me she appreciated my "actions." Were going to hug, but she then looked and said sorry and was in tears. Told me she can't help how she feels. Told her that I can't change that, I can only change me and that I am expecting the worse and hoping for the best. Asked if she would be taking the kids to her friends next week and she said we will see how things go.
I asked if she is staying overnight to give me a text. Brother is coming over and I am leaving the house.
I am resolved to giving her space and this is easy at home with the kids. It is just weird that the W who used to talk my ear off barely says a word.
With this consultation looming with the L, I am feeling that I have to fix the problems with the R before then. Realistically I know this is not possible and my head hurts trying to comprehend all of this stuff. Is W too far gone to reconcile?
I don't believe it's too late as long as she's not M to another! So, that means that even if this goes to D court, it's still not too late.
I've noticed that men seem to think alike about the D date. As if they have to fix what's broken
before that date or it over and never another chance. It's a date! Life goes on and so do R's. If you don't believe that obsessing over the D date will drive you crazy, read Crimson's thread.
Calm down. Don't try to fix her. Don't discuss the R. Back off and give her space. Most importantly, don't pursue.
Post often.
The longer you can make your time frame for recovery the better your strategy will be. If you try to fix this before the end of March you will come up with a unsuccessful plan but it you envision having Thanksgiving together as a family, that time frame will help you develop a more successful strategy.
Trust me I understand how hard it is to accept that this will not be resolved in a week or two.
Since you sound like a work aholic can you take use vacation days to take one day a week off for the next month to help around the house? Just a thought
Thanks for the suggestions. I have read the DB and re-read it and have multiple copies of the 37 rules. I am tring to take this one day at a time.
Where in Wisconsin are you? I am on the lakefront, maybe we could GAL together. Kids are the same age.
Saturday Night was hard, consisted a me a my bother trying to find evidence of an A . What a shocker nothing was found. Got mad that she didn't send a text letting me know she wouldn't be home with the kids and that they were sleeping over. Honestly I was never the control freak before, but boy that sounds very controlling.
I have become incredibly anxious to be around her given how she acting. Given the problems in our previous R she knows that I am looking for the quick fix. I would like to say that I am here for the journey and realize that there are many missteps along the way.
I am trying to follow the 37 rules as well. I am trying to act like this wall between us is not bothering me (smile on my face) when we are together.
I have to continue strengthening my R with the kids, i have also found that doing the chores around the house takes my mind off of things.
I realize that when W comes home I have to be pleasant and not lash out at her for not texting and not start with 20 questions. I am not use to this zombie I am now living with.
I also don't like being in this home anymore or the arrangements. My W is being rewarded for her actions I.e. the house and standard of living have not changed and she has absolute freedom to do what she pleases.
Wouldn't the I need space thing be realized if I was not with her under tha same roof? How can you long for someone when they'll have not left?
Then I think how much leaving would affect the kids the innocent ones in this drama. Seems I would be validating W concern that I am very selfish and that it is all about me. I am an emotional mess right. Will try to do some GAL before the W comes home this morning.
Sad welcome and I'm sorry you're here. I suggest that you start to go to an individual counselor for YOU. As difficult as it is right now you need to remain calm and remember that this is a marathon not a sprint. As far as not liking being in the house, IMHO you should stay. Your W is the one who wants out at this point and as such you could tell her calmly that you will not leave your house. I decided myself to do this with my W and she did not like it but she now is leaving at the end of this month. It's my belief that when a WAS wants out and still wants to remain in the house that they are cake eating. Some on the boards may not agree with me. Post often. I'll check in later I'm pressed for time.
I also don't like being in this home anymore or the arrangements. My W is being rewarded for her actions I.e. the house and standard of living have not changed and she has absolute freedom to do what she pleases.
Read this again and then explain it. What actions is she being rewarded for? What is the reward?
Your W is going to do whatever she needs/wants to do. You have no control over that. The sooner you can accept that and start to work on you the better you will be. It does not come easily. You have to work on it but working on you is a much better use of your time than snooping to find an affair.
Would an affair be a deal-breaker for you? Or would is be another way to fuel your anger and keep from working on you.
So what are her other complaints about you? There must be more than getting the kids to school and laundry and domestic chores.(you're 2 busy professional with young children. have you ever thought of paying someone do those chores? a housekeeper is much cheaper than a D)
Tell us what you know you need to change. Read other threads, post to them.
Work on you, the only person yo can fix.
I need to more emotionally connected to my kids. I am not so open with finances and kind of an introvert. Need to be willing to try new things and not always be in control. Trying to keep out what the W says.
I told her on Wednesday night that I would leave the house since it appears there is no hope of saving the R, and she became hysterical, telling me that I had to stay for the kids.
Just curious, but has she said what she wants in the future? Does she want you to remain in the home and her be D from you? Have you asked?
B
Sent from my iPad
This an email I typed from my iPad as she went pick up my daughter
It was nice spending time with you and the kids on Saturday. I was glad we were able to take them and the weather was perfect. I hope you enjoyed yourself and took your mind off of things.
I miss spending time with you, your jokes and your quirks. My life now is very dull without you. I hate that you and I will sit in the same room, drive in the same car and not speak to another. Not chase each other, wrestle with ******* or just act like a couple of kids. That is why you are like no other.
I could not help myself.
I told her on Wednesday night that I would leave the house since it appears there is no hope of saving the R, and she became hysterical, telling me that I had to stay for the kids.
Just curious, but has she said what she wants in the future? Does she want you to remain in the home and her be D from you? Have you asked?
She wants me to stay like friends whatever that means.
B
Sent from my iPad
This an email I typed from my iPad as she went pick up my daughter
It was nice spending time with you and the kids on Saturday. I was glad we were able to take them and the weather was perfect. I hope you enjoyed yourself and took your mind off of things.
I miss spending time with you, your jokes and your quirks. My life now is very dull without you. I hate that you and I will sit in the same room, drive in the same car and not speak to another. Not chase each other, wrestle with ******* or just act like a couple of kids. That is why you are like no other.
I could not help myself.
I put it in my saved folder, did not send it out.
I told her on Wednesday night that I would leave the house since it appears there is no hope of saving the R, and she became hysterical, telling me that I had to stay for the kids.
Just curious, but has she said what she wants in the future? Does she want you to remain in the home and her be D from you? Have you asked?
Sandi2,
As I said she wants to be friends. When I was old on Wednesday Night she was drunk and told me she did not love me anymore. And whst if her soul mate is out there. Tuesday she told me shw wanted space and that she is sorry for being so f**** up. W was sexually abused from 8-12 from stepdad and it seems every other spring she has to shake her life up. She has been to counseling regarding same. Told her we could get through this and that I don't think she is messed up.
She has not discuessed the future with me or much of anything. Small talk between us, but nothing else. Wrestling with the kids but ignoring me. I tried to join in, but she pulled back.
I just don't get her falling apart when she thought you were moving out. I know you said she still wanted to be friends, but really? She needs to get real.
Have you thought about telling her that arrangement doesn't work for you?
I can't speak for all women, but I think when most say they want to remain friends....it's just a way of trying to slide out of the R without any protest from the man. Did you ever have a girl breakup with you in high school and say she hoped you two could stay friends? Same thing happening here.
So tell me, why does she think she can have her cake and eat it too?
That is what drives me nuts she keeps the lifestyle without having to do anything. I told her she was nuts. There is no way I am going to have such a roommate. She said we should do it for the kids.
Today we are all home, had to call when she came home and I was not there (told me the kids told her to call they didn't). I am playing with them while she reads.
She is in space mode now figured it goes against everything to raise the R issue.
W head was buried in a James Patterson book the duration of the day. Majority of the day was spent playing with D6 and peacemaker with S10. Made lunch and dinner (I am the regular cook) and got a thanks.
She then brought up next week's schedule for her work. Has to take her car in on Tuesday. Offered to take drop her off @ work before taking the kids to school. Initially declined, but then reminded her that she is anally retentive with being to work on time and always early. Told her that I would rather just drop her off than have to get a frantic call when she is going to be late. Accepted my offer to give her a ride.
Really anxious to be around her, always feels like I am on the edge. I gave her the day to relax, no problem doing that. Would like to ask her, "you really think 1 person can do this?" Since I have been doing my 180 with the kids they have been so much better behaved. I also now step back when the W snaps at the kids.
Hey Sad... sorry for your sitch man. I'm in WI too.. other side of the state, though I grew up in Grafton. It may be time to visit Cedar Creek if you know what I mean
Ok... seriously, let me be straight. The next few months are going to suck. Feel free to check out my sitch, but know that it does get better, but only after it gets worse.
The "friends" thing.. my W says/is saying the same thing. And we are right now. Why? I guess b/c she is my friend. She's also my S's mom and I'd like him to not see us at each other. And, frankly, b/c I have empathy for her.
Each WAW has their own motivation. Some amount of that motivation is driven by things we, the H's, have done. Some of us on these boards have done lots of very bad things and others have done less, but in the end we all have our faults. At the same time we're also human. Our WAW's also have their faults and their issues. Now... at the point W and I are at in our process... I see her as lost and hurting so it's easy to have empathy.
Don't bring up whether she can hack it or not. A great piece of advice, maybe it was even from Sandi, is that it's not our job to teach our spouse's life lessons... it's life's job to do that.
Your only focus needs to be on you. You mentioned that your kids like the new dad. Don't give that up. Not b/c you want to save your marriage or keep your wife, but b/c your kids need it (and will need it even more in the coming months). Dig deep and figure out what else you don't like... then work on that too.
If she comes around, she comes around. If not you end up with a better you. You'll hear this a hundred times, get used to it.
A few other suggestions... don't move out. My W and I lived together for six months after the bomb.. and yes, it was not fun. But I didn't move out, she did. I didn't leave my kids, she took them, trust me that the kids know the difference (especially the 10 year old will). I will readily admit that DBing when you're apart is much easier than when you're together. But ultimately if she wants out she can do that.
Others may disagree with this advice... that's the nature of the boards. I know we are to love our wives they way they want to be loved (versus the way we want to love them). But running out of your house isn't that solution.
As far as your W freaking out on you about moving out... they are unpredictable. WAW's are also self-focused, selfish, and often narcissistic... get used to it. The next many months will largely be about her and her needs. You will grow frustrated and angry at how she shorts your kids. How she constructs you as the cause of her problems. But she's also scared out of her wits and fear is a terrible motivator.
Just today my W and I were exchanging emails. She misconstrued something I said and thought I was telling her that the email I had just sent was the last email I would ever send her. She lost it and freaked out. The same woman who moved out two weeks ago and wants a D is afraid she'll never get another email from me for the rest of her life. Don't mind the fact that we have a S together and two stepkids from her first marriage that I am more-or-less Dad to... how exactly I'd never email her again is beyond me. But it made sense to her...
To also quote someone else on the boards...
"WAWs are fun"
Good luck. If you ever catch a Brewers game let me know.. maybe MR MR, you, and I can commiserate.
Dear Sad,
I think WorkingGuy has some good suggestions. Though I'm usually in total agreement with Sandi, I don't get the same "cake eating" read from your wife that she does, at least not yet.
To me, She sounds confused and sad herself. She has not slept or eaten well, like you. She burst into tears and she's taking out her pain on the kids, per you.
So the "cake eating" is purely financial? Is that it? Couldn't the same be said about you? I mean this way there is only one mortgage to pay so in reality right now you both benefit by staying under the same roof (financially speaking).
If she is having an affair, she's not bringing OM home to the kids...so again, I'm not seeing a lot of cake eating compared to confusion and pain from her.
But the other thing is,
In any event, ALL WASs are "cake eaters" in a way, for awhile. How?
B/C for some amount of time the LBSer works on the M, while the WAS does not.
So for some time, we all allow that. We take the first step to save the m...and the 2nd step, and the next 100 steps...
that's reality b/c the LBSer is the one here posting and the WAS is not.
She's not here working on the m b/c she wants the m to end...
(and be friends, sort of)...and you don't want it to end.
So either lose the score card, OR save the score keeping and "getting even" for a whole lot later.
Please tell me, other than your work hours, which you say have changed, what were HER SPECIFIC complaints about you?
The "selfishness" means... what? I ask so I can better advise about 180s...like getting some skiis on would be great to do. Be less predictable.
A bit of mystery is a good idea. In a subtle way you can let her realize that at some point you will not stick around to watch her date OMs, and you don't intend to never be touched again...she can deduce that someday, you will probably date OWs...and bring them into the house IF you are still living there...gee, how will that work?
She's not realistic now. Her going nuts when you said you'd move out is a testament to how little she has thought this out.
But no, I am not saying you have to be in limboland forever...you can make small adjustments now.
Small consistent changes + sufficient time = change she can believe in.
And once we have a better idea about the inner work YOU have to do, we can help better. The real journey in life is an inner one.
My DB coach was great and I highly recommend you talk to one for a 3 session package. (They are Not that expensive if you compare it to ICs around here).
And they are very specific w/their advice. IMO, the DB coach I had, did more to keep our m together than anyone else, though I loved my mc too.
Here were some of her suggestions for me, and some may apply to you as well.
First, Lose the anger, at least in front of her. It tends to validate her choice to leave, Not question it. Expressing your anger to her helps no one.
In fact, I found that although I didn't think my h "deserved" no anger from me, I finally realized that my anger consumed mostly ME, and by letting go of it, I helped ME first, then the m. So I got some peace...
Second, applaud loudly for the 1% of positives your spouse does...It may sound corny but just making yourself focus on the positives really helps- but the positive comments you express must be sincere and authentic to you.
It really does wonders for the relationship and helps you with the kids too...and teaches them...and your w will notice it. It supports her, it shows love, and maybe her other love language is words of affirmation. She sure seems to be very sensitive to what you say, so think about it.
Being an introvert CAN mean that you say fewer flattering things than you realize, and it may come off as you withholding from her...AND OR being critical b/c if you say very little in general, and then you utter a negative comment (and btw "suggestions" OFTEN come off as criticism)...
So, do any of these ^^^ comments from her in the past, support ^^^this?
OKAY....GAL--
you must do this. I don't know if you realize how vital it is.
First it helps YOU obsess less and become a healthier person, thereby bringing more to the table, and it makes you less predictable (which is key now)
and her seeing you may light a fire under her to get some movement or effort from her towards the m. Despite that comment, I want you to remember that GAL is Not about the goal of getting her back, but getting her back can be a byproduct of it.
As for not being in love....(SIGH)
First, I think marriage is an ebb and flow thing. There are times we don't feel "in love" with our spouses and sometimes they are not acting all that lovable, and sometimes it's just us...but we weather the storm and the "lovin' feelin'" come back.
Plus, love is at least partly a choice. I think it's mostly a choice. Love is a verb & that takes action. Love is not something that lands on us...or finds us...we give and create love in our lives, and we nurture it.
Finally, for now and from this day forward, be the best dad you can be. It's a turn on to all women, (no mother is unmoved by seeing loving interaction between her chldren and their dad)
and it's the right thing to do anyhow. Plus your kids need you more now than ever.
I found it bittersweet that your son said he likes the 'new daddy"...
you realize what that says about you in the past? Your hours were too long.
Your kids noticed, AND your wife felt neglected enough to want out.
Hear that. Know it, and change it. Sounds as if you have, but don't backslide on it...ever.
Did you read the "Five Love Languages"? It's a great book for all couples...and one of your w's love languages, is clearly quality time together.
Your m lacked that, until now. Were you romantic? Is she?
How do you give your love? How does SHE give love?
As for the rules that Sandi assembled (she didn't author them; she assembled them. I only say that b/c I want you to know the "rules" are based on MWD's philosophy, not just Sandi's ideas...and they work if you work them)---
So follow them. That means Don't send letters like the one you wrote. Keep them to yourself certainly for now.
Act as if you DO get it. You get that She wants out and you now realize that no matter what else happens, you will be alright.
You will GAL and be content with, or without HER...but you will have the kids half time. I doubt she gets that.
Also, I'm a L too. And when my h left for the "great wilds of the tundra" (LONG story) I went to see a L myself. Don't represent yourself. If that is not obvious to you then we can talk but I assume you know this. I suggest at least one session to confirm what you think the law is and realize that knowledge is power.
Don't see her lawyer appointment as the death knell. When I saw my L, about 3 times in all, it mostly helped the marriage b/c I did not feel trapped. i was CHOOSING to stay married and not out of fear of being destitute. Make sense?
So now you must GAL-for real.
How about you make sure she watches the kids at least 1-2 nights a week for you, so you can go out and "meet up w/friends" (don't list all of the friends)
AND OR
go to a class or dance or some other UNexpected activity she would (maybe ski??) that shows CHANGE on your end.
remember this basic truth,
unless she believes marriage to you can be better/different, she won't return.
so you have to show her CHANGE...so she'll believe it can improve.
Don't say you are "too clumsy" to ski...don't put yourself down like that. You can learn. Two lessons will get you down 80% of the slopes (learn to slow, stop and aim. See??)...
Keep posting and we'll try to help. But be more specific about her complaints of you.
If you were a great guy and super h, but with long hours "that you fixed" and she still wants out
then you are powerless to do anything...right?
When our mc's told me and h that my h was out of line to want to live on his own, or that he was 'acting like a single man" -- that did validate my view and it did make me feel "right"
but it also left me with nothing to work on. So I was "right, but powerless."
See, that is why I LOVE having things to work on in myself -
and if you get the right perspective, you will see my point.
The more you have to work on in YOU, which only you control,
the more empowered you are. Dig deep.
Do you get that?
Thank you 25yearsmlc and for all who have offered suggestions and support. Her specific coplaints against me:
1. A perception that I am hiding money from her, although I have shown her my check stubs (salary) she accuses me of "hiding" money from her - the only money she does not have an accounting of is my reimbursement checks from work;
2. Not good communication regarding money (see above) always a flash point;
3. A perception that I do not get along with her family (her sister is a single M of 2 D and is having an affair with a married man - irks me that she leaves the kids with us to go have her fun - does not watch our kids in return) with this exception I love her Mom and Dad. I know that sister is her BF so I have eased up on voicing my opinion of same;
4. I don't have the same interests she does - albeit skiing is not my thing, I like being active in the outdoors.
There is no H + W time between us, it is work, school, hockey/TKO for the kids and then to sleep. Before the bomb was dropped we both have said it, but neither one of us moved.
She is not a touchy feely person, kiss and hug in the morning and she is good. Sex is on her terms. I could kiss and hug her all day if I could, seems that when I respected this she was open to more PDA.
I am giving compliments and praise to her when I can in a way that does not sound fake or phoney. Told her on Saturday that she has not lost a step on the slopes and that she is still busting her but for the kids.
Regarding the house there is no way the W could afford house plus inusrance and property taxes. I make 2x as much as she does and could stay. Always realized that her services were much more valuable than $$$ for our family, never threw this in her face.
Was there one thing or arguement before the bomb? No. Last weekend she was PO because she has been in pain with her neck and shoulder so she scheduled a massage after work on Friday Night. Told her I was going to a blues concert (she it not a concert person) that night and she flipped since I needed to watch the kids (just my luck concert is this Friday doh).
I then said that I had no idea a) she was in pain, b) that she made the appt and c) my mom was willing to watch the kids. This lead to that I am selfish for wanting to go out and not be concerned with her. Briefly the last two years she has had her appendiz and gall bladder taken out. In the end my mom would have watched the kids, but she was pissed the whold weekend and short with me and the kids.
She then tells me she wants out b/c she does not love me (and not sure if she ever did) - no other reason, I have not beaten her, would never cheat on her and don't abuse drugs/alcohol. She then shuts me out. I understand that the foregoing reasons are not the only reasons to leave, but I could understand her actions if I did any of those things.
With this new job she is leaning on a new F friend for support. She stayed at her house with her family this last weekend and is calling all the time. I have met her and liked her, but I do not think she is a supporter of our R. What can I do about this? Nothing I know.
It seems that when we went to MC 2 years ago we addressed what bothered us and made changes - stopped working so much, gave space , etc. When the problems were resolved we stopped talkling about feelings.
Does this information provide assistance?
One more thing to my list I have been taking my work out on the family - coming home and complaining the house is a mess and riding the kids, particularly my S.
I can't believe I missed this last one she said b/c of this she hated being around me.
I have been snoopiong again. She is really leaning on her new friend for support. I feel hopeless with the situation with my W, I am upset that this has been blasted to the world.
Sad no more snooping you will become addicted and it does not help you. She is no longer your W. She is someone else and she does not want you anymore. Think of it that way maybe you will feel better.
Today W woke up early today and the kids were asleep. Some small talk and I said I really hate this, you are a zombie to me, told her that I miss talking to her, hate having to sit with her and not be able to talk like we normally do. Said she can't help it, she wants to be in "love" with the person she is with.
I told her that I can't change how she feels, but feelings can and do change. We then started to talk about finances and how messed up they were. She had bounced her checking account 12 times this last six months. Really fealt like sh*t because I never new this or the extent of the money problems. Told her that she needs to talk to me about them. Offered to take over the bills, she said they were a mess and did not know where to start, but did not say no.
She is worried that the "changes" are only temporary and will soon pass. I said that I am sorry she feels that way, but this time alone has made me reflect on how I have been treating the kids and family. That my relationship with the children is better and that either way they are better off now that they were. W stated that they have been much better behaved and that it was nice that it was not all her. While I have been coming home I may have been here, but logged into work does not do her much help. Told her that I am realizing how exhausting this could be and that I appreciate all she does.
Wanted to to tell her that it took a long time to get here and that it would take a long time to get out.
We then just proceeded to talk, like we used to. S10 then wakes up and is sick. W is worried since she can't miss work, told her that it was not a problem that I could work from home today. Starting to take care of him. D6 woke up and is now sick, called W and said that I am not good at this stuff and that I could use your help, she said that's ok, W talked to my D for a diagnosis. I then thanked her for her help.
I am now working at home taking care of them. Should I expect a back step now from the W?
Today W woke up early today and the kids were asleep. Some small talk and I said I really hate this, you are a zombie to me, told her that I miss talking to her, hate having to sit with her and not be able to talk like we normally do. Said she can't help it, she wants to be in "love" with the person she is with.
I know you've read the 37 "Rules". What is the above paragraph?
I told her that I can't change how she feels, but feelings can and do change. We then started to talk about finances and how messed up they were. She had bounced her checking account 12 times this last six months. Really fealt like sh*t because I never new this or the extent of the money problems. Told her that she needs to talk to me about them. Offered to take over the bills, she said they were a mess and did not know where to start, but did not say no.
How would you describe this discussion?
You are still spinning. Can you lock yourself in a room for about 48 hrs and just slow down. You talk alot but talk is cheap, actions will be what make the difference.
Less talk, more action.
LA is right Sad... knock it off, you know better but it feels good so you do it. Right? I know because that was me still four weeks ago before W moved out. God it feels good. Like you're connecting.
When she wants to connect with you she will.
I'd also strongly suggest you read "How to Save Your Marriage Without Talking About It". Don't let the title confuse you... it's probably not going to save your M in the immediate sense of the word. But it will show you lots of stuff you need to know and internalize.
Wives don't go down this road, usually, unless they feel ultimately alone. Why they feel alone can vary, but in the end it's that they are already doing this alone, so why carry you along too? If all of that money stuff is true then I suspect your W feels terribly alone. A few weeks of "new you" isn't going to change things. Months... lots of months, maybe a year, maybe a few might, but there is no magic bullet, no instant fix.
It doesn't appear there is an OM for her to run to... this is good, b/c that would be the next thing. But right now she feels entirely alone and abandoned by you. So don't expect her to want or need any comfort from you.
And this is a marathon not a sprint. Dig in and be ready for a long run. It seems like it's spiraling towards disaster, towards the end of things. You come on here hoping one of us will tell you it looks like you're about to turn the corner.
None of us can do that... sorry. I truly wish we could. I know I wished that for a long time. But you're not spiraling towards disaster. If you split up, you and the kids will be ok. But only if you work on you and change yourself. Single, super-working dad who focuses on work and not family isn't going to work out well. Not if you want kids who don't despise you as they get older. Focus on them right now. Focus on being a dad first. You can't go wrong focusing on your kids. Focusing on your W only invites heartbreak and angst.
AS I was reading WHG's response,(who's been down a long hard road, read his threads) it came to me that you have not accepted your W's point of view.
You think she's wrong, confused, a little crazy. Yes?
Her POV is 100% correct to her right now, just as your's is 100% correct to you.
Until you accept that she's right, won't move forward
Thanks LA... I would add one thing, from a guy's perspective...
Don't make it about "right or wrong". You need to understand it is what it is. You don't have to agree with her. You don't have to like it, want it, or feel she is right. If you're like me you will have a hard time getting past the "moral rightness" of tearing a family apart for things that can be fixed. Of inflicting pain on your kids so things are better for her.
This moral righteousness will consume you. This isn't about being right, it's about being. You can stand in judgment of her if you like, but you'll be standing alone.
Look at her and see that she is hurting. Why is she hurting? Who knows, but she is. And then ask what can you do to help with the pain? But realize you can only control you.
So your wife may not be "right". But that's not the question. She is what she is and where she is, is where she is. It all has a very Zen feel to it, btw.
I know I find myself now repeatedly defending my W from people who feel a need to have moral outrage. My mom, my co-workers, friends of my W... all who just don't understand what she is doing or why. Who see the pain being brought on the children and are angry for them and angry with her. I've done a lot of "glass houses" and "cast the first stone" conversations. My W is where she is. Being angry or vengeful sure would feel good, but doesn't get us anywhere. We all have our own crosses to bear.
Working Hard - I would agree that there is no right or wrong, it just is. I got excited because she was talking, I always have to add my two cents. I think all would be better served if I STFU and acted rather than talked.
I would say that I am not mad at my W, but simply frustrated. Anger was never a feeling I had towards her.
I would say that I am not mad at my W, but simply frustrated. Anger was never a feeling I had towards her.
Right there with you. I've been working on owning the stuff I've done that's put my M where it is, but occasionally we'll have a few good days, then it slides back into the status quo. My frustration grows more every time this happens, but it's mostly because I'm not doing anything to get my mind off of it. This is why GAL is so important.
GAL isn't my point, but just want you to know the frustration is normal, and you should probably expect to feel varying amounts of that mixed with strange relief when things aren't so tense.
She called and checked on the sick kids. Then had to run through a series of symptons with the kids. Could tell she was getting frustrated so I wrapped the conversation up.
I see nothing but cake eating by your W. You are really dancing to her tune right now. Why? Just because you made mistakes in the M too?
Please keep in mind how she freaked when you wanted to move out. She is not "doing this because of the kids," she is keeping you home for her own convenience.
She doesn't have to feel any consequences because you are right there catering to her and still trying to "fix" things. Can't be done this way; plus, women do not respect men that they can boss around and walk all over.
I think you may reconsider moving out for a bit. Let her really feel the reality of her choices. The sooner, the better! Do not let this drag out until she has all her ducks in a row before she cuts you loose.
Because that is exactly where this is headed.
Take back your huevos.
Be careful and find out what ramifications there might be for child custody later on if you move out.
Well, of course.
I think a separation agreement is in order here; doesn't mean you will get a D, so don't panic.
What Sad is doing is not working; it is classic cake-eating. I think being a bit proactive and getting some free legal consult is fine right now.
Also, the kids are watching. The last thing they need role-modeled is a weak husband/dad.
How would Sad counsel one of his kids if they ever found themselves in this sitch?
Also, the kids are watching. The last thing they need role-modeled is a weak husband/dad.
How would Sad counsel one of his kids if they ever found themselves in this sitch?
I can't leave because of the kids. Sice W has dropped the bomb she has been non-excistent in the household affairs. Don't want to hurt them more.
Why do you feel you have to leave any way? And don't use the tired excuse of "to give her space". The only way to get back a connection is to be there with her and cooperate.
Why do you feel you have to leave any way? And don't use the tired excuse of "to give her space". The only way to get back a connection is to be there with her and cooperate.
Mr Bond,
This is the fight in my head. I am giving you space, but then I see you in the morning and after work. Wouldn't there be a better chance that she would she would appreciate me if I wasn't here to pitch in with the house and kids while she acts like a zombie?
The Sad Man
W is feeling no consequences for her actions and H is, what? Just there to babysit so W can continue to do as she pleases?
I see no strength here, just emasculating behaviors.
Yes, but I am giving the kids the care and attention they deserve. They did not ask for this, why should they suffer?
"Wouldn't there be a better chance that she would she would appreciate me if I wasn't here to pitch in with the house and kids while she acts like a zombie?"
Forget about her for bit. Do you want to move? If not, then don't. Simple as that. Don't move because you want to make a point or that you think she'll miss you, etc. Start doing things that YOU want to do and not her.
BTW, I am a strong believer that your user name should reflect the person who you want to be. If you keep calling yourself "Sad in WI", you will always be "sad in WI". Change your name into something much more positive. Little steps like that go a long way into changing your thinking.
Hey SIW sorry I took so long to reply, I'm just south of Green Bay, I am kid free this weekend so if you want to do a kid activity it will have to be next weekend. If you are kid free as well and want to get together for coffee or something tbat would be great. I could use some GAL, and so could you.
Wow what a night. W came home and did not feel good so took shower and laid down on couch. S10 asks mom if we all can watch "Real Steal." She was reluctant but agreed. D6 then cuddled with me on the rocking chair and fell fast asleep.
We have not had a family movie night in years. Very good movie and yes I even cried at the end. First time things were relaxed in awhile. Took D6 to bed when movie was over and thanked W for spending time with us. Could not complain.
S10 is sick again today so I will be working from home again. Should be a little easier since D6 is going back to school.
Had to drop W's car at the dealer before work so I had to drive her to work. Stopped @ StarBucks and had a nice conversation on the way to work. W kissed the kids good-bye and she waived I returned same with a smile.
Will stick to get catching up on my work today. Trying to get used to living for now and not tring to put a quick fix on things. Our S10 has been behaving so much better, this really is a God send.
Stupid question, but seeking some help:
General mood of wife on the phone while at work is "blah" (much better spirits before or after work). I start to get tense and I feel awkward.
W has requested space and have not called. Do I tell her what I am thinking (I would prefer not to talk to you while working at this point) or appreciate that she is initiating contact with me?
Is she contacting you? or are you contacting her?
General guidelines is to not respond, or do so selectively, when she contacts you. If it's about the kids, ok. Otherwise let her start to feel your absence.
If she really needs to get a hold of you she will try. Otherwise it's sort of this weird "touchstone" thing where the WAW wants to leave and be on her own, but at the same time wants to know you're there still as her security. It's like this line straddling without committing one way or the other.
Now I realize there are issues in your R where perhaps you haven't been there for her. But you can address that through action. Taking care of the kids, participating in finances, being invested in your family... having small talk chats on the phone isn't that.
The other general rule is end convos on your terms. Whether that's a text exchange or a phone call. Be the one to end it, don't leave her that power.
[quote=workinghardguy]
Now I realize there are issues in your R where perhaps you haven't been there for her. But you can address that through action. Taking care of the kids, participating in finances, being invested in your family... having small talk chats on the phone isn't that.
quote]
Working Hard - I think that is it, I have not been there for her for so long, just got another call concerning the car
W is feeling no consequences for her actions and H is, what? Just there to babysit so W can continue to do as she pleases?
I see no strength here, just emasculating behaviors.
Per my db coach "it's NOT the spouse's job to make their spouse 'feel the consequences' of their actions or 'teach them a lesson'. Life does that".
Aside from appearing vindictive, We don't know what his w feels but
she sounds confused and miserable to me. And since leaving the house is probably not the legally smart thing to do, what are you suggesting he do - kick her out--
so he can work to save the m?
it's not about being "right" it's about being happy.
ALL WAS's are cake eaters for some amount of time.
They want out of the marriage and we the lbs'ers want it to last.
So for awhile, WE (LBSers) DO ALL THE WORK, and that's that.At some point it must change, sure I'll buy that. But that's down the road after SHE chooses to work on the m.
To suggest he dump her now to "show her", would be counterproductive and might appear punitive. I'm not suggesting he be a doormat. Not at all.
If he were to seriously
GAL, Detach and do HUGE 180s I don't think he'd be seen as weak at all. On the contrary,
GAL the way I envision, would keep him home w/his kids but busy, strong and upbeat, & NOT available to babysit for her at all, unless it was his kid time (and safe for the kids).
Getting a sitter soon may have to happen but it's cheaper than an apartment.
And if she insists on divorcing but staying under one roof--she is delusional. But HE doesn't have to tell her that...it's hers to discover. Lots of this is for her to figure out. He can't do it TO her or For her.
25yearsmlc,
You summarized very nice and neat and in a little package the situation I am in. The purpose of my 180's in not too "show her up," but are rather my choices to change behaviors in myself to make me a better person.
I am approaching day 3 of my S10 illness. Ended up taking S to the clinic and the DR said another day at home. Told the W I can and would be able to stay at home. W just started this job less than 6 months ago, would not want to do anything to jeapordize that. Was concerned that if I did this, that I could not help on Friday, said no problem, that this is not an issue. Tension is back up and has said very little too me, went to bed.
Mind you W called 4 times this afternoon concerning the car and S10. I ended the conversations.
I am trying to do GAL activities that are "kid friendly" things that we have been wanting to do for a long time. Always ask the W if she wants to join along.
The last two days at home with kids have been hard, and the last week of having primary care for them has challegned me in ways that I have not been challenged in awhile.
W yesterday was helping me and initated conversation. Perhaps today, I am making to big of a deal about her lack of communication. It shouldn't bother me how she is acting, I have been going above and beyond for the kids. My relationship with them is getting stronger and in the end that is what matters.
I do think she is miserable and my instinct is too confront her and "try to get to the bottom of things." Thing is I am realizing that the "things" bothering her are hers. Nothing I say will change that at this point.
When does one know when they should/can/ever expect their partner to help with the work and eventually the M?
And it is my Birthday tommorrow, have not told the kids and do not expect anything from her. Given the stances, treating it as just another day with my WAS/MLC W.
Happy bday tomorrow. Isn't 25 sharp? Well you don't have apartner so you should have no expectations. She is not a part of u anymore. It is like ripping flesh apart. This is going to be the hardest thing in your life. I'm still struggling with it myself. So let's get to what matters. What are your GALing activities and 180s?
Rick1963,
My GAL's are:
Getting back to working out at the gym, Going to a church, join a men's hockey league, and attack the list on things/places I would like to see with my kids.
My 180's in no particular order:
Make the kids my number one priority when I get home from work until they go to bed,
Not take the frustations of the job out on the family,
Make sure the kids are could to go in the morning,
Not get offended or rush to judgment on financial affairs,
If something around the house is bothering me - rather than complain I am doing it myself,
Start to accept people I know and those around me that I may have not been very found of in the past,
Really try to listen and choose my words before I speak.
Of course this is a list and is always a work in progress.
Sounds like a good start sleep well my friend
I am trying to do GAL activities that are "kid friendly" things that we have been wanting to do for a long time. Always ask the W if she wants to join along.
Don't invite her along... at least not every time. Do it sparingly if at all. When she says no or doesn't come along it triggers guilt in her. She then resents you for creating and triggering this guilt. If she wants to come along she will.
When does one know when they should/can/ever expect their partner to help with the work and eventually the M?
There's an unofficial belief on the board that it's one month for every year of marriage. So yeah... you've got a looong road I'm afraid. And that's only a best guess and only for those that get a recon in the end.
Working Hard,
Kids are very attached to W at this point. They will not go if mommy does not go.
SIW
Ahhh... then I'd say doubly so... you need to build a bond with your kids on top of this R mess going on. The kids are 10 and 6... they WILL go, albeit you might have to make them. But if it's fun and interesting then once they're there they'll like it and it will work.
I see your 180 list has dad stuff in it, that's good... I'd make finding your inner-dad a top priority.
I appreciate your help with this. Before this board I fealt like I was the only one going through it.
Can a person do a 180 for their W or is that considered fixing?
And it is my Birthday tommorro
Happy Birthday...
have not told the kids and do not expect anything from her.
I wish you had told the kids so they could experience giving...but instead, since it's too late for that now,
why not invite them to a mini-celebration of your own? Go to a movie or dinner or at least ice cream, and tell them they are the "best gifts" you could ever have, etc...
don't bother inviting w unless you feel awkward not doing so...
This way YOU Take charge of the day--it's the start of you GAL and not basing your happiness on what she does or does not do.
One birthday I openly pre-planned to go skydiving b/c---b/c I always wanted to. I found a place 20 min from here!
That week , h decides he wants to join in (lots of excitement was building) and so does oldest d...(D jumping actually scared me way more than mine)
It was MY day and it went just how I wanted it to go & I really could not be disappointed.
I was surprised h joined b/c he's not usually the type. But we all enjoyed it & it was bonding too.
Given the stances, treating it as just another day with my WAS/MLC W.
Expect nothing from her, but you will NOT feel good if you deny yourself any & all celebration...it's too much martyrdom you are teaching the kids.
And it's a fun thing for the kids too...heck, if you are a cake eater (I mean literally 
) then get a cake & eat it--sharing of course. Hope your son feels better.
If he doesn't, then use his illness as a reason to DELAY/PLAN your birthday activities this weekend or when he's better. Plan WITH the kids as if it is their party too.
Be in charge of your day/life/happiness...this is an opportunity to show CHANGE in you, FOR you.
Make sense?
Wow what a night. W came home and did not feel good so took shower and laid down on couch. S10 asks mom if we all can watch "Real Steal." She was reluctant but agreed. D6 then cuddled with me on the rocking chair and fell fast asleep.
We have not had a family movie night in years. Very good movie and yes I even cried at the end. First time things were relaxed in awhile. Took D6 to bed when movie was over and thanked W for spending time with us. Could not complain.
I would not thank her again. It will seem as if you are highlighting the evening in a way that says "Look, see? We CAN have FUN!!"
Let her figure that out. The more memories you create now, the better for the children (THE priority of yours now)
and
gives her more to miss so when her head clears, IF it does, those are the feelings that surface in her.
Working Hard,
Kids are very attached to W at this point. They will not go if mommy does not go.
SIW
As you build a stronger r with your children, that should change. For now, make it a "temporary" thing like "Mom has to work/doesn't feel well" and take them FUN places...often.
As for the GAL activities, they are not really about your kids. I mean they are for YOU as an individual mostly. If you need to build on the r's with your kids (and you said you do so I believe you) then do that.
But for some GAL you need to leave the house and be gone somewhere
w does not know of
and
meet NEW people...not all men if possible.
I am not suggesting you date. But I think a little mystery can be a great thing.
Well let's hope next years birthday is better than todays. W said HB and told the kids it was my birthday. Still homw today with my S10.
Things have been going good regarding the morning conversations I have had with my W. Once the night hits however, they don't exist and she clams up.
I was stupid, but I texted her and asked her if I wanted to leave. She called and stated that she pulls back from me because if she does not I will take it to mean that things are ok again. She has not changed her feelings (it has been a week).
I told her that there would have to be so much more than a series of conversations for things to be better between us. She then told me that she was looking to leave with occupancy by 5/1. The conversation the went to that if one of us does this the house is gone.
I should just STFU.
You know you should, now just do it!
A week?!?!? That's nothing in DB-time, bucko!
She has not changed her feelings (it has been a week).
Dude... get ready for some serious delayed gratification.
A week? That's barely enough time to dislike you only a tiny little bit more than she does now.
I've been on this rodeo since September of last year. That's still nothing compared to some. This is going to go on and on, accept that now. Life will get better, a little at least, once you do.
I know what your life is like right now. You are examining and re-examining every piece of information, comment, or item your W says or does. You look for clues. What is she thinking? What is she doing? Does this mean a change of heart? What about this? What about that?
Stop it. You will drive yourself crazy. I drove myself crazy. I did all of what you're doing. I could barely function. I would check phone records. I'd track internet activity. I'd mope, cry, howl, plead, beg. I broke into her Facebook account to read her messages. More because I wanted to connect with her somehow than anything else.
In the end... it just drove me crazy and drove her away faster.
Then the folks on this board told me to knock it off. Oldtimer challenged me more than I care to count and I usually didn't listen. But when I did life got better.
You will hear this often and it will take a while to understand it, but detach. Now. Start now. It will be hard. You love her. You love your family. You love having a family and having a wife. The idea of not having a family or a wife is hard. It's embarrassing, it's emasculating. There's shame, or feelings of shame, in having your family fall apart. Admit, deal with it, face it for what it is.
If you're not seeing a counselor go do that. You need someone safe to talk to. Someone you can pour your heart out to, cry to, lament to, and hear you out. YOUR W CANNOT BE THAT PERSON.
You may lose your house. You may lose your car. Those are material things that can be replaced. You can downsize. You can be foreclosed on and survive. Lord knows that's nothing new in America today. You won't lose your kids if you do this right. You may lose your W but you may get her back eventually.
But there are no guarantees on the last piece. None. Sorry. Every so often you will hear someone lament and plead that DBing doesn't work. They're right. There's no promise that it works. But what's the alternative? To be this pleading, moping, depressed, sad sack... who wants to go back to that? Or to be this angry, emotional, out of control, aggressive/abusive jerk? Who wants their kids to be around that?
Tomorrow marks six months since my bomb, which was delivered the day before our anniversary. When my bomb was dropped she was going to be out by November. She moved out in February. We never talked. It was dark and cold in my house. No words, no comments, just anger. Today my W and I had lunch together and spent three hours shopping for birthday presents for our S. This does not mean we're together or anywhere close. But it does mean we can at least get along, communicate, and co-parent. Db hasn't saved my marriage (yet) but it has saved some semblance of an R with my W. And considering we have S together and a SS and SD in the middle of this that is something of great value to me.
You are scared how this will affect your kids. That's reasonable. I was and am too for my kids. I hate the pain it's brought them. But understand that they will look to you to understand how to process this. What do you want them to see? Suffering or strength?
Lastly... you are in control of all of this. I know right now it doesn't feel like that. It feels like the world is spinning away from you. Like you're playing a game but no one will tell you how time is left on the shot clock. It suxx.
But that's all an illusion. Divorces happen. Reconciliations happen too. Your marriage was a piece of paper that created a legal condition. A divorce is the same thing. Neither of them mean a darn thing when it comes to DBing. You are in control because you can keep working on this as long as you want to. When you're ready to be done, then you're done.
Two quotes that have helped me throughout my sitch...
"Women are attracted to men who control their emotions, not to those controlled by their emotions."
"Today is not the day I give up. Tomorrow may be that day... but today is not it."
You CAN do this. You CAN put up with the pain. You CAN thrive. You CAN change yourself. It will be hard but you can do it.
In the end it may or may not be enough to bring your W back. But it will be enough to make a better dad and a better you. That's worth more than a M anyway. You can always get another M if you want to... you only get one you.
Since today was my birthday decided what the heck and broke more of the 37 rules. Asked her why we can be close during the day and that when she comes home she barely says two words. Told me that she has to pull back so that I do not think things are better. In my head I am thinking, that is the last thing I am thinking. I know that there is a lot of work and we have just scratched the surface.
She liked my changes and believe that they are all temporary. Told her that's I could not change how she feels but I believe my R with the kids has become better.
I snooped and discovered that she was looking at places with occupancy by 5/1. Then texted her and asked her when she was leaving. She stated that she had been looking and that she still feels the way she does.
I then said that why should the kids have to move, if she is miserable then she should move out.
After W came home from work we had dinner and cake, I bought a birthday cake, her face has been buried in a book since then.
S10 woke me up at 3 this morning and did not feel good yet. Told hime to lay down a cuddled him until this morning when W came down. Conversation was light and drama free.
My family is telling me to f*ck it, she should not be doing this and if she loved me she would not be acting this way (morale booster huh?). I simply say I am working on things I can control and that I am enjoying the time I have with the kids.
S10 is home again for the 4th day, W could not miss work, told her that I would not want her to miss work since it is such a new job. Told her it was ok. My boss was more than understanding. She helped with D6 this morning.
She downloaded a few books for her I-Pad so she is engrossed in them this morning.
I truly did not realize how much work the kids are. These last two weeks have showed me that.
I am going to stay focused on my work today and when I drop D6 off at school today I will pick a few things up for dinner for the family. Need to stay focused and in moments of weakness pick up the DB book and come here. It is very hard for me to keep my "fix" mentalilty in check. That will only push her farther away.
Today after I was finished with what work I could do from home I decided to change things up a bit.
Decided to shave (don't unless I need to), put a pair a khakis on and button down shirt (usually jeans) and decided to make dinner for the family. Nicer clothes make me feel better and I think I look better.
I also downloaded "How to Fix Your Marriage Without Talking About It." I have read it and also re-read the DB 180's. Really wish I would have read the How to Fix book before the R went south.
Texted W to let her know son's current state. No drama.
Had dinne one when W came home. She was not interested in eating. I thought I was the only one. She stated that she wanted to go TKO, tolde her to go tonight.
I did not let my emotions out or showed her that I was disappointed when he dd not eat with us.
W seems so back and forth, one minute she is talking my ear off the next not a word. I this common? I am tring to remain emotionless either way.
She has been helping more with my D6 today. Bing home with my S10 the last few days has been one of the hardest things i have done.
My family is telling me to f*ck it, she should not be doing this and if she loved me she would not be acting this way (morale booster huh?).
Family will be of little help. They love you and want what's best for you, except they're human which means they also have self-interest at play. While they want you to be happy... they also don't want to have to watch you in pain. Hence the attitude of "drop her and move on".
My mom has always thought of my W as her own daughter. She co-signed the loan so my W could go to nursing school when my W's own parents wouldn't. Yesterday my mom tells me I'm crazy for putting up with this and for not "taking her to task" for all the pain she is causing the kids. At that point I literally put the phone down so she could rant a little and then came back about two minutes later just as her rant was wrapping up.
And don't expect any help from her family either. Blood is thicker than anything and they all stick together no matter what.
W seems so back and forth, one minute she is talking my ear off the next not a word
Yes, this is completely normal (or as normal as any of this is). The WAS is human too. Humans are drawn to the known and the comfortable. So yes, she will talk your ear off at times. And other times she will lock you out.
If you want to make her feel the loss of you then you need to not be as available for those "chats". I did not do that very well at all when W and I were still in the same house. Being successful at being dark in your own house is a very challenging endeavor.
Going dark for me is very hard. Since we barely talk now I welcome any interaction the two of us have. It seems like she is fighting with herself to keep the wall up, it goes down a little then she works twice as hard to keep it up.
Going dark for me is very hard. Since we barely talk now I welcome any interaction the two of us have. It seems like she is fighting with herself to keep the wall up, it goes down a little then she works twice as hard to keep it up.
Is that what you want to happen?
Are you helping her build the strong wall she needs to keep you out?
I would guess all she thinks about you right now is how much you are driving her crazy and wondering why you don't get it when she tells you it's over.
And forget that she said she wants to be friends. Saying that just makes the WAS feel better.
If you want to work at this, leave her be.
Labug,
I can stop calling, texting and emailing her. She has initiated the calls or texts. When she is at home I am focusing my attention on the kids, W is talkative in the morning, do I ignore her? The talk is light never about the M or us. Usually about the finances and the kids.
I am not puppy dogging her, but how else do I show her that I am ok with the space when we are together? All help has been and will be appreciated.
Thanks.
Treat her like you would treat a friendly neighbor.
Use this time to show her the new you, a you that doesn't depend on her to make you happy...or sad.
Don't do things to get a reaction from her, positive or negative, just try to find and be, you.
Labug,
OK, I will work of doing that. Is it normal for W not to eat? I thought it was the LBS that was doing that, but she is.
SIW
While it may be hard to watch, what she eats, or doesn't is up to her. She's a grown woman. You're not her father.
Was controlling behavior a complaint she had about you?
Yes, she said she fealt trapped in the situation. In the past when she wanted space I would smother her more and try to buy her affections. This is the first time that when she said space, I gave it to her. Was never concerned with what she was doing, only to let me know is she was taking the kids, etc.
She gave you the roadmap.
STOP controlling.
Are your kids in danger when she is with them? If not, stay out of her R with her children.
Labug,
What do you mean by road map? I am sorry, I am not trying to be stupid.
SIW
The road map to get through this, stop trying control her, stop smothering her. Let her live her life and make hr decisions even if you don't agree with those decisions. Difficult but doable.
She left the man you are right now. She's given you information on what was wrong. Use that as the roadmap to becoming the new and improved you.
When you take the pressure off her, and begin to change she may look at you differently and she may decide you are too good to let go.
No guarantees but you will come out a changed man.
Labug,
You are absolutely right. Looks like I now have gotten sick from the two kids, just my luck.
My W has told me that she has fealt on her own for the longest time (handling the bills, watching the kids) that she feels like a single parent.
Two of my 180's are to be more active with the kids and two have more of an active role in the budget. Today was the first payday we are doing this. Not saying anything to W just depositing the money into the account. Asked her what else we will need for the upcoming weeks so we can plan ahead. And with the kids I have not touched my work when they are awake.
Maybe I am pondering too much, but if someone feels like they are on their own won't and you are giving them the space they want doesn't this just validate their opinion? Am I crazy for thinking this?
SIW
Labug,
You are absolutely right. Looks like I now have gotten sick from the two kids, just my luck.
My W has told me that she has fealt on her own for the longest time (handling the bills, watching the kids) that she feels like a single parent.
based on your revelation that taking care of a sick kid for two days, was the "hardest thing" you have ever done, tends to support her view. So one of the negative images she has of you is a non-parent who dumps the hard stuff on his partner and takes it for granted...that means the 180 on this is clear.
Two of my 180's are to be more active with the kids and two have more of an active role in the budget.
good!
Today was the first payday we are doing this. Not saying anything to W just depositing the money into the account.
why not tell her you want to do it together and so, you put the money in? Would that be a 180 too? Just calmly working on the bills like a team? Or are you worried that you are "highlighting" a small gesture?
Asked her what else we will need for the upcoming weeks so we can plan ahead. And with the kids I have not touched my work when they are awake.
Good.
small consistent changes + sufficient time = change she can believe in.
Maybe I am pondering too much, but if someone feels like they are on their own won't and you are giving them the space they want doesn't this just validate their opinion? Am I crazy for thinking this?
SIW
I really don't get your question. Validate what opinion?
She has TOLD YOU that you smother her and you need to back off,
so do it.She also told you that you were not helpful enough with the kids or the bills.
So those are easily identified 180s.
You also know when you pursue and do the R talks... you THEN wish you'd STFU.
Follow your own advice (and hers and ours) and do ZERO R TALK...
be upbeat around her as if you are not dependent on her for your happiness (no doubt that is part of the smothering feeling she gets). It's not fair to burden HER w/having to "make you happy".
You have always been solely responsible for your own happiness. We all are.
I don't mean fakey stuff (but "fake it til you make it" has some value) but be busy with your own hobbies and (things that don't take from the kids time YOU ought to be with them) but when SHE IS with them, go do something a tad mysterious...oh wait, I told you this before. And if you act the way your screen name is, stop it.
No man misses a cold wife and no woman misses a depressed acting man.
It will look like pouting or sulking and reeks of neediness which she will Not be attracted to.
Deep down, you know all this. It's simple. No, not "easy" but not complicated.
Be more disciplined and work the program b/c the program works.
DBing does not save ALL marriages but if done right,
it saves ar least the DBers...
Show her that you get that and are moving towards a place of true contentment You have several weeks to show her the NEW DIFFERENT YOU
OR you can repeat the same unproductive behaviors that got you here.
Stop the controlling behaviors and if you have to ask if it is controlling it
probably is. Don't even THINK about why she isn't eating. She simply didn't eat WITH YOU...maybe she ate before or after. If she's upset, so be it. NOT YOUR PROBLEM and please do not read into this.
It reeks of control and maybe you wanting her to be around you?? Or for her to "feel your love" with the dinner--which is pressure AND expectation on your end.
Make dinner for the kids, enough for her IF she wants it but have no expectation that she will. And don't be hurt (or show it) if she says "no thanks".
Assume she won't eat with you, but don't be curt or rude.
That "rule" assembled over the years, about
acting as if you have had an awakening is such a good one in all circumstances.
It means YOU are changing.
Bottom line-which you MUST understand --is this:
IF she does Not think the marriage can be better/different than before
she won't return to you.
So, what are YOU doing to SHOW her that the marriage can be different/better?
It ALL begins with you changing you and the great news about that, is that it means you are not powerless in this.
Good luck!
Don't know if this is outside the board, but here I go. W is reading the "50 shades of grey books" and I thought that I would watch the kids tonight while she relaxes with her iPad. Bought some wine and she took the kids to bed.
We are talking back and forth and she tells me that these books are making her incredibly h**ny and then proceeded to ask me to have sex. She then proceeds to go on and on that this does not change things, etc. between us.
IMHO this was the best time I have had with her since we first dated. She then stated that again this does not change things.
Did i just make a mistake?
Did i just make a mistake?
Did you?
I don't think I did. It doesn't change the fact that I have a ton of work to do. It doesn't change my relationship with the kids.
Did you have an expectation?
No. There is so much that has to be done.
Saturday started a little tense, but after she came home from working out things seemed to be ok. We had a number of errands to run before my sons end of year hockey party. That was the first time me and the W have done that in years.
Party was ok and the W's sister came over (not a personal favorite over the years), but I know that she is one of W favorite people so I have made beng nicer to her sister a 180. Talked with her the duration of the visit. Saturday night was the father/daughter dance at school. D6 danced with me for 2 hours. W was in good spirits when we got home.
This morning took the kids to a park and W helped me clean the house. Conversation has been light, but with the nice weather have been able to get some yard work done. W car was a mess so I decided to clean it.
This weekend was pretty good and the first one where wife did not leave with the kids. While I continue to do the bulk of the chores around the house W made an effort to help as well. Spent a lot of time alone with D6 which was nice. W seems to get really irritated with her.
W seems to come and go emotionally, but realize that this is her problem, I am trying to be steady throughout. When W ster was over I overheard her say hat she is very confused.
Does anybody else get worked up after looking at this site?
But what are you doing for YOU?
And how much of what you are doing is to get some reaction from your W? I'm not saying don't do them but do them without expectations.
About cleaning her car...did she ask you to clean it? It always bugged H that my car was messy inside-he called it my rolling purse. But it was MY car and that was MY stuff. I might have seen his cleaning it, without asking me first, as intrusive and controlling.
LABug,
For me I continue to spend more time with the kids. With the exception of being decent to her sister the things I am doing are helping me have a better relationship with my children. At this point I have no expectation that anyting I am doing will have any affect on my W.
I would always b***h about the house not being clean. If I see something that bothers me I am now taken care of it without a fuss and without any commotion. I am finding that just doing things without b**ching about it is so much easier.
W asked me if I wouldn't mind cleaning her car out since I was in the middle of cleaning mine Sunday. Said no problem. Would not have done it without asking since the car is her space.
Good about the car
I see you're doing things but are these things what makes you, you.
What do you like to do for fun? Have you been doing any of these things?
I doubt that your housecleaning skills are what attracted W to you.
What are some of the things you used to do?
Labug,
I like to workout a lot, but have been slacking recently. I really don't do a ton of "me" things. Try doing things that I enjoy like spending time in the outdoors with the kids.
I need to start finding more GAL things. Guess I have been concentrating on my 180's.
SIW
Stupid Question, but I do not know where to turn on this one. We planned on taking the kids to Disney World over Spring Break. Tickets have been bought and W still wants to go. I don't want to break my kids' hearts.
If I knew where the W and I stood it would not be so awkward. By then it would be two months after she dropped the bomb. Hardly enough time for the DB to work.
My advice is to go but have no expectations. Just enjoy it for what it is. Make sure to have fun especially for your kids!
That is what I am thinking, but it seems kind of f**ked up to take the "most unhappiest W to the happiest place on Earth."
I understand but guess what? Her unhappiness is HER problem not YOURS.
I know I know. Guess it is good that she is looking forward to going.
Yes it is good but don't make a big deal of it to her.
I have not. Have not brought up the vacation until my D6 asked about it yesterday.
You are doing very good then. Time for you to start working out again
Did this morning @ 2:30 a.m. Was nice to wake up for somthing other than work.
Well coming up on two week anniversary of bomb being dropped. I know that this is not a long time for most here, but it seems like a lifetime. Trying my best to adhere to DB with my W.
I can say that things are better with me and the kids. They are starting to rely on me for a change and that feels good. I have a much better appreciation of the work these two can put a person through. They are really looking forward to going to Disney World.
I still am not eating much, but I am sleeping better. Got back on the work out regime and it feels good. Adult hockey is starting soon and it is great that it starts after the kids and W are asleep.
I am still giving the space W has requested. This is fairly easy, but find it hard to do wen we are both at home. I am not puppy dogging her around, but will admit that I am eager to talk with her. Still no talk of the M, but I have no expectations that will change at this point. She is always chatty in the morning and distant after work.
W's mom called before she got home and we are fairly close. Asked me how I was doing and I said good, she called my bluff and said bull s**t. Told me W doesn't know what she is doing yet.
This week I need to stop showing my emotions to W and not believe everything she is saying as the gospel truth.
On a positive note both of us have now been able to talk about the family's finances without fighting. There has been some decent team work and I think I will just leave it at that.
W called when I was writing this at the hockey rink while my S10 has tryouts for a traveling hockey team. Asked about the tryouts and then told me she was taking the kids to her friends house on Saturday.
This bugged me and it should not have, she is living her life w/out me. I guess if she were not taking the kids that would be one thing, but she is.
Was mad and going to tell her that if you do not want to spend Saturday with me then maybe we shouldn't go to Florida as a family. Then your "stuck" with me for five straight days. That would have been a real d**k move on my part. I don't know why this made me mad.
I talked to a friend and calmed down abit. We are making plans to hang out on Saturday. I need to work on not showing her any emotions. This is just so f**ked up, at times I can see the woman I married and then the next the zombie is back.
I realize that I am an impatient person and that this is one of my worst attributes. I am really really trying to do things just for me and the kids, but then I think about the family and it makes me very sad and hopeless. I still love my W very much, I am attracted to her as much, if not more, as I was when I first met her.
Then I begin the battle in my head to stay or go. Selfishly thinking that by not having me around she would realize what she does not have. When I am here I am still helping with the kids and doing things around the house, etc. She gets all the benefits of the M without having to make a commitment of any kind. Then I think that by being here I tug my kids in every night and make them breakfast in the morning. Providing for my family is very important to me. This was really brought home in the "Save Your Marriage, W/out About It Book."
I am trying to keep this all in and be the father to my children and keep my head above water at work. Sorry for venting.
We at in very similar situation. I have Ben dealing with this for three years. However, unlike you I handsome ups and down with this past year being one huge down. My wife uses me for support an buying stuff. Hollyann really hit home in her responses; at least for me. Last week my wife asked me why I am not happy with Ty roommate setup since she is happy. Doesn't understand why we can't live together and do family stuff, but not have any romance. I told her I am miserable. He del I she love me, but does not have romantic feelings toward me. My opinion now I like yours. I am seriously considering leaving to give her real space. In my case I m being walked on.
Tough one bro. I pray for you.
Ug posted from iPad. Sorry for spelling
Lifeisart,
Feel for you bro. Hope things get better for you. It looks like both of us need to stop using the I-pad on here. It is challenging to find the balance of being there for the kids, the family and my interactions with her.
She is on me today about the vacation, texted me a few times about the trip. Don't want to deal with her today.
SIW
Hey Sad...just a tip, it's time to start a new thread. Once threads get to over 100 posts admins will lock them down to prevent corrupting the forum database.
You can start a new thread and link back to this one if people want to catch up on your sitch.