Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/02/12 03:59 PM
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/02/12 04:38 PM
So I didn't sleep very well last night - basically took two hour power naps that were filled with odd dreams. Had a dream that I was driving my dad's old 85 Oldsmobile and rear-ended a pickup truck from the the 1940's. WTH? There were other odd dreams, but they escape me at the moment.
As mentioned in thread "10", my DID get the gerbera daisies that I left for her yesterday. However, I think her enthusiasm about them was great surpassed by the fact that our son was having poop problems again. He experiences pain, discomfort, screaming, locked legs, etc. - when he has to go. It's hard to think about flowers when your son is screaming his head off - so I decided not to take it personally at all.
I texted her last night that I respect the hard work that she is doing being a mom to a toddler and working full time - that I realize that it is difficult and that she was doing a great job as a mother. I told her that I was glad that she was there with him when he is not feeling well (even though it kills me that I am not). She reponded "Thanks :)".
I wrestled with the idea of proposing getting together this weekend. But I decided to put it out there anyway. I said maybe we could take the baby somewhere fun and then grab a bite to eat somewhere on Saturday. She didn't respond to the text, but I figured she was either asleep or wrapped up in the baby.
After last night's crappy sleep, spent worrying about my son I pried myself out of bed and showered and got dressed for work. I decided to call and check on my son to she how did through the night. W was driving him to babysitter and said he slept through the night but was still kind of "out of sorts". She let me talk to him and my heart both melted and exhaled when I heard him say "hi daddy". I asked him how he was doing - but he didn't answer (he's not even 2 yet, so it's more for educational purposes). Hearing his little voice just makes me feel better - he said his little broken "I love you" and then I went back to my W. She said that she didn't have a chance to reply to my text last night because she was more or less in "survival mode". She said that she would play it by ear on Saturday and see how the baby was feeling. Fair enough. I told her that if there was anything I could do to help him, please let me know. I miss that kid a ton.
So regarding MC, I have individual sessions set up for next week. I think I am Tuesday and she is Wednesday. Haven't given her the schedule yet, but I am hopeful that she won't object. Not gonna lie, a litte worried about it because the last time we did IC with the counselor it resulted in me discovering w has no interest in working things out. I hope this time will be different. Gun shy, I guess.
Years ago I heard a great quote: "when suffering becomes more painful than change, you will change". That has been running in my head a lot this week. I am living that quote right now...to the letter. There is nothing more awful than being away from my wife and son....I never knew it would be this painful. However, it was the ONLY way that I would have changed....or even admitted that I needed to. I think my w is starting to see it, but the extent to which she is willing to trust and believe remains to be seen. But I know to my core that this has been a life-altering experience. I can never go back to who or what I was before this. It has been painful enough to evoke change. Lasting change.
Not sure why, but my emotions have been running wild these last few days. I almost feel like I am at "Day 1" again. Poor sleeping - even dry heaved a few times in the morning (as humiliating as that it to admit). I think it is because I am struggling with hope and optimism while still fearing for the worst. I think when I was in LRT there was a stranging "soothing" element to it because I felt like I was in control. In this stage, I have to be willing to let my w lead progress. So whereas I have control to the extent that I can say I will participate or not, I cannot move the ball forward on my own. Maybe that is why my emotions have gotten to me lately. That (and I know I sound like a broken record player, here) and I struggle a lot being away from my boy.
Well, I think I have over-posted. More later.
Your friend,
Crimson
As mentioned in thread "10", my DID get the gerbera daisies that I left for her yesterday. However, I think her enthusiasm about them was great surpassed by the fact that our son was having poop problems again. He experiences pain, discomfort, screaming, locked legs, etc. - when he has to go. It's hard to think about flowers when your son is screaming his head off - so I decided not to take it personally at all.
I texted her last night that I respect the hard work that she is doing being a mom to a toddler and working full time - that I realize that it is difficult and that she was doing a great job as a mother. I told her that I was glad that she was there with him when he is not feeling well (even though it kills me that I am not). She reponded "Thanks :)".
I wrestled with the idea of proposing getting together this weekend. But I decided to put it out there anyway. I said maybe we could take the baby somewhere fun and then grab a bite to eat somewhere on Saturday. She didn't respond to the text, but I figured she was either asleep or wrapped up in the baby.
After last night's crappy sleep, spent worrying about my son I pried myself out of bed and showered and got dressed for work. I decided to call and check on my son to she how did through the night. W was driving him to babysitter and said he slept through the night but was still kind of "out of sorts". She let me talk to him and my heart both melted and exhaled when I heard him say "hi daddy". I asked him how he was doing - but he didn't answer (he's not even 2 yet, so it's more for educational purposes). Hearing his little voice just makes me feel better - he said his little broken "I love you" and then I went back to my W. She said that she didn't have a chance to reply to my text last night because she was more or less in "survival mode". She said that she would play it by ear on Saturday and see how the baby was feeling. Fair enough. I told her that if there was anything I could do to help him, please let me know. I miss that kid a ton.
So regarding MC, I have individual sessions set up for next week. I think I am Tuesday and she is Wednesday. Haven't given her the schedule yet, but I am hopeful that she won't object. Not gonna lie, a litte worried about it because the last time we did IC with the counselor it resulted in me discovering w has no interest in working things out. I hope this time will be different. Gun shy, I guess.
Years ago I heard a great quote: "when suffering becomes more painful than change, you will change". That has been running in my head a lot this week. I am living that quote right now...to the letter. There is nothing more awful than being away from my wife and son....I never knew it would be this painful. However, it was the ONLY way that I would have changed....or even admitted that I needed to. I think my w is starting to see it, but the extent to which she is willing to trust and believe remains to be seen. But I know to my core that this has been a life-altering experience. I can never go back to who or what I was before this. It has been painful enough to evoke change. Lasting change.
Not sure why, but my emotions have been running wild these last few days. I almost feel like I am at "Day 1" again. Poor sleeping - even dry heaved a few times in the morning (as humiliating as that it to admit). I think it is because I am struggling with hope and optimism while still fearing for the worst. I think when I was in LRT there was a stranging "soothing" element to it because I felt like I was in control. In this stage, I have to be willing to let my w lead progress. So whereas I have control to the extent that I can say I will participate or not, I cannot move the ball forward on my own. Maybe that is why my emotions have gotten to me lately. That (and I know I sound like a broken record player, here) and I struggle a lot being away from my boy.
Well, I think I have over-posted. More later.
Your friend,
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/02/12 06:45 PM
Crimson, I posted this on your thread yesterday but I don't think you noticed it.
Since you seem to have a lot of anxiety over how things may or may not work out, don't you think it would be a good exercise to run through your list of issues and make sure you've addressed each one?
It would be a shame if you got to the finish line but realized you left something behind and whatever that is, comes back to bite you in the butt.
Quote:
Which brings me to my next point. And you may not agree but I will make it anyway for you to consider.
You are at a precarious stage in your sitch. The way I see it, things could go either way for you but I have the best hopes for a R between you and your W. That being said, you might want to consider resurrecting your list of things that weren't working in your M. The ones from her perspective AND the ones from yours.
I think that with the passage of time, we LBS have a tendency to latch on to only the big ticket items that ripped apart our M's. And while I think those are clearly important, the smaller ones are just as important because if they go un-addressed they will eventually become big ticket items in and of themselves.
So, think about dusting off that list and maybe adding to it if new issues have come up in your MC sessions. Maybe consider posting it here so we can help you focus and prioritize.
The point is, you need to be in tip top form when/if your W is ready to come back to the M and try again.
You are at a precarious stage in your sitch. The way I see it, things could go either way for you but I have the best hopes for a R between you and your W. That being said, you might want to consider resurrecting your list of things that weren't working in your M. The ones from her perspective AND the ones from yours.
I think that with the passage of time, we LBS have a tendency to latch on to only the big ticket items that ripped apart our M's. And while I think those are clearly important, the smaller ones are just as important because if they go un-addressed they will eventually become big ticket items in and of themselves.
So, think about dusting off that list and maybe adding to it if new issues have come up in your MC sessions. Maybe consider posting it here so we can help you focus and prioritize.
The point is, you need to be in tip top form when/if your W is ready to come back to the M and try again.
Since you seem to have a lot of anxiety over how things may or may not work out, don't you think it would be a good exercise to run through your list of issues and make sure you've addressed each one?
It would be a shame if you got to the finish line but realized you left something behind and whatever that is, comes back to bite you in the butt.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/02/12 06:46 PM
ack.. wrong thread!!
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/02/12 06:48 PM
Carrying this over, I posted it to your old thread but want to make sure you see it here...
Since you seem to have a lot of anxiety over how things may or may not work out, don't you think it would be a good exercise to run through your list of issues and make sure you've addressed each one?
It would be a shame if you got to the finish line but realized you left something behind and whatever that is, comes back to bite you in the butt.
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
Crimson, I posted this on your thread yesterday but I don't think you noticed it.
[quote]Which brings me to my next point. And you may not agree but I will make it anyway for you to consider.
You are at a precarious stage in your sitch. The way I see it, things could go either way for you but I have the best hopes for a R between you and your W. That being said, you might want to consider resurrecting your list of things that weren't working in your M. The ones from her perspective AND the ones from yours.
I think that with the passage of time, we LBS have a tendency to latch on to only the big ticket items that ripped apart our M's. And while I think those are clearly important, the smaller ones are just as important because if they go un-addressed they will eventually become big ticket items in and of themselves.
So, think about dusting off that list and maybe adding to it if new issues have come up in your MC sessions. Maybe consider posting it here so we can help you focus and prioritize.
The point is, you need to be in tip top form when/if your W is ready to come back to the M and try again.
[quote]Which brings me to my next point. And you may not agree but I will make it anyway for you to consider.
You are at a precarious stage in your sitch. The way I see it, things could go either way for you but I have the best hopes for a R between you and your W. That being said, you might want to consider resurrecting your list of things that weren't working in your M. The ones from her perspective AND the ones from yours.
I think that with the passage of time, we LBS have a tendency to latch on to only the big ticket items that ripped apart our M's. And while I think those are clearly important, the smaller ones are just as important because if they go un-addressed they will eventually become big ticket items in and of themselves.
So, think about dusting off that list and maybe adding to it if new issues have come up in your MC sessions. Maybe consider posting it here so we can help you focus and prioritize.
The point is, you need to be in tip top form when/if your W is ready to come back to the M and try again.
Since you seem to have a lot of anxiety over how things may or may not work out, don't you think it would be a good exercise to run through your list of issues and make sure you've addressed each one?
It would be a shame if you got to the finish line but realized you left something behind and whatever that is, comes back to bite you in the butt.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/02/12 07:13 PM
Crimson my friend, some random thoughts for you:
- when Mach pointed out how you use the word "but" or in your case the more expensive version "notwithstanding", it is really a mindset that you end up typing in your posts. Be aware that it's use negates everything you think or feel before you use that word. "I would not worry about the lawyers, BUT they're acting on my W's command". Be aware of this, think about it, and you will find it popping up over and over in how you think and post. Since I was given this sage advice I have caught myself over and over getting ready to think or say something that way, and I stop in my tracks. Using the word "but" makes you powerless to whatever comes after the word "but". When you become aware of this, you will see that you are in control of what you are feeling before the word "but" comes into play. Then, instead of negating your power with the word "but" you end up making yourself find solutions so that you can maintain your original feeling and line of thought. This can be a big eye opener for you and can allow you to regain control of your emotions and will power. Hey, I passed Mach's advice onto my WAW, and she has noted how big of an impact words can have, which ultimately are a sign of how you are thinking. Give this some thought. This really helped me a lot.
- your kid's pooping problem at that age is actually very common. My S13 went through this at same age as your boy and in the end the doc said to trust that his body will work as it should and he will pass the solids. It's tough to watch them suffer but it does "work itself out", no pun intended.
- I don't want to preach to you but there is a way to find peace from the divine, where our minds cannot reach due to so much mental gymnastics. You do have to work at it though, shutting the mind down and letting the heart and soul take over....breathe in...breathe out....surrender to it....let your thoughts float past...
I typed this on the run to a meeting so pls forgive me if I ramble a bit....I want "you" to find peace ny friend.
- when Mach pointed out how you use the word "but" or in your case the more expensive version "notwithstanding", it is really a mindset that you end up typing in your posts. Be aware that it's use negates everything you think or feel before you use that word. "I would not worry about the lawyers, BUT they're acting on my W's command". Be aware of this, think about it, and you will find it popping up over and over in how you think and post. Since I was given this sage advice I have caught myself over and over getting ready to think or say something that way, and I stop in my tracks. Using the word "but" makes you powerless to whatever comes after the word "but". When you become aware of this, you will see that you are in control of what you are feeling before the word "but" comes into play. Then, instead of negating your power with the word "but" you end up making yourself find solutions so that you can maintain your original feeling and line of thought. This can be a big eye opener for you and can allow you to regain control of your emotions and will power. Hey, I passed Mach's advice onto my WAW, and she has noted how big of an impact words can have, which ultimately are a sign of how you are thinking. Give this some thought. This really helped me a lot.
- your kid's pooping problem at that age is actually very common. My S13 went through this at same age as your boy and in the end the doc said to trust that his body will work as it should and he will pass the solids. It's tough to watch them suffer but it does "work itself out", no pun intended.
- I don't want to preach to you but there is a way to find peace from the divine, where our minds cannot reach due to so much mental gymnastics. You do have to work at it though, shutting the mind down and letting the heart and soul take over....breathe in...breathe out....surrender to it....let your thoughts float past...
I typed this on the run to a meeting so pls forgive me if I ramble a bit....I want "you" to find peace ny friend.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/02/12 07:39 PM
Crimson,
I feel for you. Where you are now is brutal, torn between hope and disillusionment.
I'm reading tons of pursuing into your posts. If there is anything you can do to dial that back, please try to.
If you think of your marriage as a plant that needs to be watered, you need to be using an eye-dropper right now. If you start using a watering can it may come across to W like a fire hose and scare her away.
When you are texting about S, make sure that S is not just an excuse to get some contact with W. When I was reading your posts what was going through my mind was "too much too fast, too much too fast."
Accuray
I feel for you. Where you are now is brutal, torn between hope and disillusionment.
I'm reading tons of pursuing into your posts. If there is anything you can do to dial that back, please try to.
If you think of your marriage as a plant that needs to be watered, you need to be using an eye-dropper right now. If you start using a watering can it may come across to W like a fire hose and scare her away.
When you are texting about S, make sure that S is not just an excuse to get some contact with W. When I was reading your posts what was going through my mind was "too much too fast, too much too fast."
Accuray
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/02/12 09:01 PM
You may be right, Accuray. I have been very forthright about trying to seek a suitable balance between DB, what my w expresses in MC, and my own tendencies and fears - all while being very aware that come May 8th we are all done. Time, thus far, has been my friend - but right now the relationship between time and me is strained at best. I know I shouldn't view that as a true limiting factor to a potential R - but it is a major setback.
W agreed to 5th MC session today - it will be IC for both of us on consecutive days. I figure that can't be all bad. It will give her a chance to speak freely without me being "in the way".
I really wonder how it will work out.
Crimson
W agreed to 5th MC session today - it will be IC for both of us on consecutive days. I figure that can't be all bad. It will give her a chance to speak freely without me being "in the way".
I really wonder how it will work out.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/03/12 01:40 AM
Thinking out loud - or typing as the case may be.
Taking my parents to airport tomorrow morning so they can fly back home after their three-month stay. It's a bitter-sweet moment. On the one hand, I am hoping that it will clear the road for my wife to stop by every now and then, yet on the other it's been kind of nice not having a empty house all to myself half the time even though they can drive me all sorts of crazy. Net-net, it is not just helpful - but necessary for them to clear out to work on my marriage. If nothing else, the drive to not spend time in this house by myself will really push me to GAL a bit more - I have fallen off a bit. I can't remember who was asking on my previous thread, but the answer in "I haven't been doing too much for myself lately". I haven't done NOTHING (double negative intended) - I just have not focused on me for awhile and I think it reflects in the increased sadness that I have been feeling lately.
So get this. My IC session with MC is Tuesday the 13th, W's is Wednesday the 14th. Care to guess what we have Monday the 12th? Yep. Consult with reproductive endocrinologist. That oughta make MC interesting. Still trying to wrap my brain around the freakish dichotomy this is right now.
Is it wrong for me to be sorta excited about the consult? Granted, I know it is launching the cart before the horse - but I have so fallen in love with my son over the last six months my heart truly wants another child. And, frankly, I can't say that I have ever stopped loving my wife - despite all that has transpired. Which leads me to my next point.
How do I handle MY hurt without diminishing what my wife feels OR making her feel guilty or shamed? I am 100% willing to let go of most of it - I already have. There are just some thing....isolated incidents....that burn sometimes. Like the first time I asked her a question and her reply was "you'll have to talk to my lawyer". Or the day I got served divorce papers at my office....or when her lawyer subpoenaed my employer for records about me....or when she sent the baby back to me with no shoes. I know I have to move beyond all of it and forgive. And I WANT to. I just wonder if it will ever be appropriate in the course of this process to articulate these things. If the answer is "no" - I can handle it.
W took s to her school's talent show tonight. He is gonna love that! He is a big music lover and frequently dances in his car seat.
Crimson
Taking my parents to airport tomorrow morning so they can fly back home after their three-month stay. It's a bitter-sweet moment. On the one hand, I am hoping that it will clear the road for my wife to stop by every now and then, yet on the other it's been kind of nice not having a empty house all to myself half the time even though they can drive me all sorts of crazy. Net-net, it is not just helpful - but necessary for them to clear out to work on my marriage. If nothing else, the drive to not spend time in this house by myself will really push me to GAL a bit more - I have fallen off a bit. I can't remember who was asking on my previous thread, but the answer in "I haven't been doing too much for myself lately". I haven't done NOTHING (double negative intended) - I just have not focused on me for awhile and I think it reflects in the increased sadness that I have been feeling lately.
So get this. My IC session with MC is Tuesday the 13th, W's is Wednesday the 14th. Care to guess what we have Monday the 12th? Yep. Consult with reproductive endocrinologist. That oughta make MC interesting. Still trying to wrap my brain around the freakish dichotomy this is right now.
Is it wrong for me to be sorta excited about the consult? Granted, I know it is launching the cart before the horse - but I have so fallen in love with my son over the last six months my heart truly wants another child. And, frankly, I can't say that I have ever stopped loving my wife - despite all that has transpired. Which leads me to my next point.
How do I handle MY hurt without diminishing what my wife feels OR making her feel guilty or shamed? I am 100% willing to let go of most of it - I already have. There are just some thing....isolated incidents....that burn sometimes. Like the first time I asked her a question and her reply was "you'll have to talk to my lawyer". Or the day I got served divorce papers at my office....or when her lawyer subpoenaed my employer for records about me....or when she sent the baby back to me with no shoes. I know I have to move beyond all of it and forgive. And I WANT to. I just wonder if it will ever be appropriate in the course of this process to articulate these things. If the answer is "no" - I can handle it.
W took s to her school's talent show tonight. He is gonna love that! He is a big music lover and frequently dances in his car seat.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/03/12 03:00 AM
Yeah, the IVF/D thing messes with my head, too. It's not like Monday is a procedure. Just go and get whatever info you need, and don't commit to anything.
I'm not sure this is a level playing field. It's sort of like wanting to bring up the fact that your W "hit you back." Well, yeah....
What would you actually hope to accomplish, if not making her feel guilty or shamed? It's not like it's a recurring problem, or something that was happening in the M that you want to work to prevent from happening in the M again.
I'm not sure I see any value in bringing THOSE things up. Not to W anyway. I'm sure the C would be willing to talk you through it.
Quote:
How do I handle MY hurt? ... I just wonder if it will ever be appropriate in the course of this process to articulate these things.
I'm not sure this is a level playing field. It's sort of like wanting to bring up the fact that your W "hit you back." Well, yeah....
What would you actually hope to accomplish, if not making her feel guilty or shamed? It's not like it's a recurring problem, or something that was happening in the M that you want to work to prevent from happening in the M again.
I'm not sure I see any value in bringing THOSE things up. Not to W anyway. I'm sure the C would be willing to talk you through it.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/03/12 04:28 AM
Originally Posted By: Crimson
Thinking out loud - or typing as the case may be.
Taking my parents to airport tomorrow morning so they can fly back home after their three-month stay. It's a bitter-sweet moment. --- Net-net, it is not just helpful - but necessary for them to clear out to work on my marriage. --- I haven't done NOTHING (double negative intended) - I just have not focused on me for awhile and I think it reflects in the increased sadness that I have been feeling lately.
----Granted, I know it is launching the cart before the horse - but I have so fallen in love with my son over the last six months my heart truly wants another child. And, frankly, I can't say that I have ever stopped loving my wife - despite all that has transpired. Which leads me to my next point.
How do I handle MY hurt without diminishing what my wife feels OR making her feel guilty or shamed?
who are you to "make" her feel guilty for her self preservation? What did she do "wrong"?
You just finished admitting the "ONLY WAY" YOU would change into a better man, was by her doing exactly what she did, leave you. If you end up together- SHE deserves most of the credit for saving the marriage and saving YOU....
End of story...
I am 100% willing to let go of most of it - I already have.
good...you should let it ALL go as it is known as "owning your stuff" and leaving hers for her to work on. Not your job to fix her or explain how her leaving you was the best thing that could have happened
BUT SOMETIMES YOU FELT BAD ABOUT YOURSELF and now you want... what from her?
An apology for the truth hurting you?
There are just some thing....isolated incidents....that burn sometimes. Like the first time I asked her a question and her reply was "you'll have to talk to my lawyer". Or the day I got served divorce papers at my office....or when her lawyer subpoenaed my employer for records about me....or when she sent the baby back to me with no shoes.
crimson, get a grip. NONE of this was mean or cruel or inconsiderate. She filed and that means legal unpleasantness happens. What did you want, a heads up and some candy?
Except for the baby shoes all of this is legal stuff...reality....And the forgetting his shoes...really? You are "Hurt" by that? Seriously? You are the same man who "never changed" that boy's diaper or made a meal for him or put him to bed or read to him before she left...
and you want to carp about her forgetting his shoes? Seriously....wake up and stop the backslide!!
I know I have to move beyond all of it and forgive. And I WANT to. I just wonder if it will ever be appropriate in the course of this process to articulate these things. If the answer is "no" - I can handle it.
Good b/c THE ANSWER IS "NO"...emphatically.
IF you come up with a legit thing to feel bad about, we can talk. But THIS^^ stuff is way off base for you to complain about imo. Sorry.
W took s to her school's talent show tonight. He is gonna love that! He is a big music lover and frequently dances in his car seat.
Crimson
Taking my parents to airport tomorrow morning so they can fly back home after their three-month stay. It's a bitter-sweet moment. --- Net-net, it is not just helpful - but necessary for them to clear out to work on my marriage. --- I haven't done NOTHING (double negative intended) - I just have not focused on me for awhile and I think it reflects in the increased sadness that I have been feeling lately.
----Granted, I know it is launching the cart before the horse - but I have so fallen in love with my son over the last six months my heart truly wants another child. And, frankly, I can't say that I have ever stopped loving my wife - despite all that has transpired. Which leads me to my next point.
How do I handle MY hurt without diminishing what my wife feels OR making her feel guilty or shamed?
who are you to "make" her feel guilty for her self preservation? What did she do "wrong"?
You just finished admitting the "ONLY WAY" YOU would change into a better man, was by her doing exactly what she did, leave you. If you end up together- SHE deserves most of the credit for saving the marriage and saving YOU....
End of story...
I am 100% willing to let go of most of it - I already have.
good...you should let it ALL go as it is known as "owning your stuff" and leaving hers for her to work on. Not your job to fix her or explain how her leaving you was the best thing that could have happened
BUT SOMETIMES YOU FELT BAD ABOUT YOURSELF and now you want... what from her?
An apology for the truth hurting you?
There are just some thing....isolated incidents....that burn sometimes. Like the first time I asked her a question and her reply was "you'll have to talk to my lawyer". Or the day I got served divorce papers at my office....or when her lawyer subpoenaed my employer for records about me....or when she sent the baby back to me with no shoes.
crimson, get a grip. NONE of this was mean or cruel or inconsiderate. She filed and that means legal unpleasantness happens. What did you want, a heads up and some candy?
Except for the baby shoes all of this is legal stuff...reality....And the forgetting his shoes...really? You are "Hurt" by that? Seriously? You are the same man who "never changed" that boy's diaper or made a meal for him or put him to bed or read to him before she left...
and you want to carp about her forgetting his shoes? Seriously....wake up and stop the backslide!!
I know I have to move beyond all of it and forgive. And I WANT to. I just wonder if it will ever be appropriate in the course of this process to articulate these things. If the answer is "no" - I can handle it.
Good b/c THE ANSWER IS "NO"...emphatically.
IF you come up with a legit thing to feel bad about, we can talk. But THIS^^ stuff is way off base for you to complain about imo. Sorry.
W took s to her school's talent show tonight. He is gonna love that! He is a big music lover and frequently dances in his car seat.
Crimson
So do you feel better or worse now?
Check yourself when you begin this type of thought process. IT's destructive to the cause, imo.
Focus on the LOVE you feel for them and the gratitude you have for maybe getting a 2nd chance...
and let that replace this other prideful wounded ego whining. Crimson, You sound 20 years less mature when you go there. So don't go there.
Stay the course please. Don't blow it now.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/03/12 09:25 AM
Thank you for the head check. You are right and make total sense. My emotions have been flaring out of control lately and I don't know why. I gotta get my sh@t back together.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/03/12 12:47 PM
Hey Crimson, do you ever wander around this board and read other threads. I've found that it really does help to get me out of my head and in reading other's sitches I find answers to my own questions or different ways to look at things.
Do you volunteer anywhere regularly? It really sounds like all you do is work, take care of S and worry. I'm positive your area has TONS of things you could do on the weekends when you don't have S.
You obsess and I know that's not news to you but it worries me because if you don't figure out how to handle that and you and W get back together, it will be disastrous.
Find some things that allow Crimson to think about people other than Crimson.
Do you volunteer anywhere regularly? It really sounds like all you do is work, take care of S and worry. I'm positive your area has TONS of things you could do on the weekends when you don't have S.
You obsess and I know that's not news to you but it worries me because if you don't figure out how to handle that and you and W get back together, it will be disastrous.
Find some things that allow Crimson to think about people other than Crimson.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/03/12 05:16 PM
25 - I have read your last post a few times over. Thank you for catching me in the middle of what could have been some really crappy negative progress. As noted my emotions have been a little off kilter lately. I think all of the things that I noted above are just things I need to look at in the context of the larger picture. To that end, I should just be glad that I have made the progress I've made. Honestly, and I do not say this lightly, I don't know where I would be without your help and the help of many of the other "sages" here. You all have LITERALLY stopped me from doing some pretty stupid sh!t over the last several months.
I had "WTF am I doing" moment yesterday when my w said she was going to her schools talent show with S. For a minute I was kinda sulky - just to myself. Then it hit me that I was traveling backwards! Again, wacky emotions. I picked up my phone and texted her that it was a great idea and that S would love it (which he did). I think it has been a valuable lesson lately in recognizing that these things (acting as if, etc.) are forever - and a good way to manage the old me into someone a little more tolerable.
I have been journaling on the weekends that I don't have my S at a coffee shop that I love (I am actually there right now). Months ago, I wrote a whole section on "problems and the 180s I can do" - I think it would behoove me to revisit that section just to see now far I have come and how some of them have actually come to fruition and produced positive results. I think now I. In the stage where I need to focus on making them "sticky".
Had a great convo with w this morning about the show last night and her job. She really is good at what she does.
Bust on, friends. Bust on.
Crimson
I had "WTF am I doing" moment yesterday when my w said she was going to her schools talent show with S. For a minute I was kinda sulky - just to myself. Then it hit me that I was traveling backwards! Again, wacky emotions. I picked up my phone and texted her that it was a great idea and that S would love it (which he did). I think it has been a valuable lesson lately in recognizing that these things (acting as if, etc.) are forever - and a good way to manage the old me into someone a little more tolerable.
I have been journaling on the weekends that I don't have my S at a coffee shop that I love (I am actually there right now). Months ago, I wrote a whole section on "problems and the 180s I can do" - I think it would behoove me to revisit that section just to see now far I have come and how some of them have actually come to fruition and produced positive results. I think now I. In the stage where I need to focus on making them "sticky".
Had a great convo with w this morning about the show last night and her job. She really is good at what she does.
Bust on, friends. Bust on.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/03/12 05:20 PM
.......oh, and to answer your question LA - I do wander around a lot and read posts. I never respond to much because I wonder exactly what I have to offer at this point. And the few people that I used to check in on (CO1978) have vanished. But you are right, it DOES help.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/03/12 06:06 PM
Hey there crimson- journaling at a coffee shop is a great GAL! I'm jealous!
And you said you feel a wave of emotions as if it was the first day. I feel that way today. Sometimes our mind takes a break from DBing but we gotta get back on that train. Sit on top of the locomotive and yell HEEEE HAWWWW!!! That visual made me laugh! Hope it did the same for you
And you said you feel a wave of emotions as if it was the first day. I feel that way today. Sometimes our mind takes a break from DBing but we gotta get back on that train. Sit on top of the locomotive and yell HEEEE HAWWWW!!! That visual made me laugh! Hope it did the same for you
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/03/12 09:08 PM
Oddly enough - I left the coffee shop and met some friends for mimosas nearby - the relocated to a different place for beer and humorous conversation. Might see a movie tonight with a friend - but right now I am just home again......wow is it quiet. I think I will spend some time plotting how I can GAL in the coming weeks.
VP - have fun riding atop the locomotive. But when you come to a tunnel - duck. I have watched a lot of Indiana Jones movies and I know that scenario rarely works out well.
VP - have fun riding atop the locomotive. But when you come to a tunnel - duck. I have watched a lot of Indiana Jones movies and I know that scenario rarely works out well.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/04/12 03:57 AM
Hear that? No? Exactly! That is my home being perfectly still and quiet for the first time in a bit. The secret to enjoying it? Learning the difference between loneliness and solitude. Right now I am enjoying the latter and hoping the former stays at bay.
So w suggested an early dinner today so I met her and S at a place a bit outside of downtown. I love it with s can tell it's me just by my 4Runner pulling into the parking lot. His face lit up - I can't tell you how happy I was to see him. W said he has been a little cranky an rambunctious the last day or two. I could tell that she was mentally and physically exhausted a bit - she asked me to "take over" at dinner - I was happy to do so. He turns two at the end of this month, he is rather bright, and he is starting express his likes, dislikes and opinions a bit more. It's for sure a stage where you hope to have a partner backing you up.
We had a great talk over dinner. W brought up the R and my parents - I told her about some of the things I observed in my parents R that I think worked for them that I was inadvertently trying to replicate in our R -- they just don't work and L learned that the hard way. All in all it was a good dinner, a good talk....and there was a blood orange martini and lobster bisque involved - can't beat that. I printed out some of the pictures I have taken of my S on photo paper and gave them to my W for framing - she really liked them. I was never big into pictures when we were "together" but that has changed a lot not wanting to miss much of my son's life.
S was getting fidgety and I could tell wife was exhausted from parenting. I told her I could take him to the park by her condo for awhile and play with him while she gets things done around the house. She was VERY ok with that. It was win/win - she needed the mental break and I needed the time with my son. We had a nice time at the park and it really calmed him down a bit. So we made it back to w's condo and I got him into his PJs, read him a few books, said his good-nite prayer with him - handed his exhausted little body to my w and headed for home.
While I was there, it was really clear that my wife was tired. She said it would be better if he would just sleep in. I find that odd because when he is at the house with me he can EASILY sleep till 8 or later. Not sure why he gets up at 5:00 when he is with my w. I kept thinking it would be so much easier for BOTH of us if we were all under the same roof. Didn't allow myself to dwell there, though - I think that is something that she will figure out on her own at some point.
Gotta say it was a good night all things considered. Now I am just lounging at home with the dog. And I get my son tomorrow! It's a happy moment and I will savor it because Lord knows what next week will bring.
Crimson
So w suggested an early dinner today so I met her and S at a place a bit outside of downtown. I love it with s can tell it's me just by my 4Runner pulling into the parking lot. His face lit up - I can't tell you how happy I was to see him. W said he has been a little cranky an rambunctious the last day or two. I could tell that she was mentally and physically exhausted a bit - she asked me to "take over" at dinner - I was happy to do so. He turns two at the end of this month, he is rather bright, and he is starting express his likes, dislikes and opinions a bit more. It's for sure a stage where you hope to have a partner backing you up.
We had a great talk over dinner. W brought up the R and my parents - I told her about some of the things I observed in my parents R that I think worked for them that I was inadvertently trying to replicate in our R -- they just don't work and L learned that the hard way. All in all it was a good dinner, a good talk....and there was a blood orange martini and lobster bisque involved - can't beat that. I printed out some of the pictures I have taken of my S on photo paper and gave them to my W for framing - she really liked them. I was never big into pictures when we were "together" but that has changed a lot not wanting to miss much of my son's life.
S was getting fidgety and I could tell wife was exhausted from parenting. I told her I could take him to the park by her condo for awhile and play with him while she gets things done around the house. She was VERY ok with that. It was win/win - she needed the mental break and I needed the time with my son. We had a nice time at the park and it really calmed him down a bit. So we made it back to w's condo and I got him into his PJs, read him a few books, said his good-nite prayer with him - handed his exhausted little body to my w and headed for home.
While I was there, it was really clear that my wife was tired. She said it would be better if he would just sleep in. I find that odd because when he is at the house with me he can EASILY sleep till 8 or later. Not sure why he gets up at 5:00 when he is with my w. I kept thinking it would be so much easier for BOTH of us if we were all under the same roof. Didn't allow myself to dwell there, though - I think that is something that she will figure out on her own at some point.
Gotta say it was a good night all things considered. Now I am just lounging at home with the dog. And I get my son tomorrow! It's a happy moment and I will savor it because Lord knows what next week will bring.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/04/12 04:44 AM
Sounds like a good few days! Good for you! Keep the right focus and remember the road is still long. But you can certainly keep a good pace!
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/04/12 11:19 PM
Crimson - all the stuff you mentioned that burns you, I think is typical bomb dropping stuff, not an indicator of what your R is with her. I think you should focus on the future and how you two can pull things together. I don't think you have anything to gain by bringing this up because when you R this stuff won't be happening, it was just bomb shrapnel.
What kind of stuff do you like to do for fun - hobbies, passions? What do you and your friends do for a kick?
What kind of stuff do you like to do for fun - hobbies, passions? What do you and your friends do for a kick?
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/05/12 03:02 AM
Yeah, Rick - I think I am over that little "spell". In her own unique and clear-as-a-bell way 25 extinguished that fire for me.
If I am being honest with myself, once I got married I think I didn't spend a lot of time with my friends. I've been trying to fix that lately and have done a reasonable job I think....still, could be better.
So w called this afternoon and said this was the worst weekend she thinks she has had with s. He is cranky, whining, throwing things - etc., to the surprise of no one, he turns 2 in a few weeks. I think that is what it driving it - that "transformation". My W said she felt like a bad parent. I told her I see how she could feel that way, but it's not her at all. Sad thing is, it is easier for BOTH of us to relieve one another under the same roof. Living apart, we're kinda stuck with no breaks when he starts to lose it. No matter - this phase will come and go. Just wish we were doing it as a one-home team. This way is a lot more difficult.
W came by to drop him off this evening. For the first time since she left in November she set foot in the house. Surely this has EVERYTHING to do with my parents being gone. She and her sister stayed mainly in the foyer area - the dog went nuts to see them both (w rescued him from a shelter - he knows it and is grateful) - he hasn't seen her since she left. I gave her some of the fresh rosemary she had planted in the backyard and a book we hd discussed (relax, not DR). She looked at the baby and said "mommy's heart hurts" and had to leave. I am guessing that the combo of being back in the house, seeing her dog again and saying good-bye to her baby was a lot to process emotionally at one time. Hell, it would be for me. I could see her eyes getting a little glassy. So off she went with her sister.
S was pretty cool being here with just me and the dog - though he DID ask for my parents - so I let him Skype with them briefly. We read a few books and he was out cold.
All in all a good weekend.....hung with friends....coffee...beer...dinner with w and s....Indiana demolished Purdue......the weather hit the 80's......w set foot in the house. Not bad. Not bad at all.
Crimson
If I am being honest with myself, once I got married I think I didn't spend a lot of time with my friends. I've been trying to fix that lately and have done a reasonable job I think....still, could be better.
So w called this afternoon and said this was the worst weekend she thinks she has had with s. He is cranky, whining, throwing things - etc., to the surprise of no one, he turns 2 in a few weeks. I think that is what it driving it - that "transformation". My W said she felt like a bad parent. I told her I see how she could feel that way, but it's not her at all. Sad thing is, it is easier for BOTH of us to relieve one another under the same roof. Living apart, we're kinda stuck with no breaks when he starts to lose it. No matter - this phase will come and go. Just wish we were doing it as a one-home team. This way is a lot more difficult.
W came by to drop him off this evening. For the first time since she left in November she set foot in the house. Surely this has EVERYTHING to do with my parents being gone. She and her sister stayed mainly in the foyer area - the dog went nuts to see them both (w rescued him from a shelter - he knows it and is grateful) - he hasn't seen her since she left. I gave her some of the fresh rosemary she had planted in the backyard and a book we hd discussed (relax, not DR). She looked at the baby and said "mommy's heart hurts" and had to leave. I am guessing that the combo of being back in the house, seeing her dog again and saying good-bye to her baby was a lot to process emotionally at one time. Hell, it would be for me. I could see her eyes getting a little glassy. So off she went with her sister.
S was pretty cool being here with just me and the dog - though he DID ask for my parents - so I let him Skype with them briefly. We read a few books and he was out cold.
All in all a good weekend.....hung with friends....coffee...beer...dinner with w and s....Indiana demolished Purdue......the weather hit the 80's......w set foot in the house. Not bad. Not bad at all.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/05/12 03:13 AM
Nice!
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/05/12 03:15 AM
"All in all a good weekend.....hung with friends........coffee...beer...dinner with w and s....Indiana demolished Purdue......the weather hit the 80's......w set foot in the house. Not bad. Not bad at all."
Copy and post this ^^^^ in a conspicuous place as a reminder of your progress.
Copy and post this ^^^^ in a conspicuous place as a reminder of your progress.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/05/12 06:59 PM
Sometimes Crimson....its better to live as if your only responsibility in life is to generate happiness, for you and for others. Like attracts like so joy attracts joy. The mind is a great tool but its also the great deceiver. I'm not saying there's no use for your obvious intelligence, however the mind also works in the shallow ego related parts of our lives and lives by fear of hurt and fear of what the future might hold. Alone, it has no room for the eternal soul. Learn to live through the heart, and don't let your mind run your soul. It can and happens to most everybody.
Think about your son. You used to value him and acted towards him being controlled by your mind. Where did it get you and him? Now you live for him through your heart and soul and look where you and him are!
The mind is great for doing shittt like interpreting tax code or something, but it's only a tool, like our eyes or feet or something.
Your so close! You have expressed so much to your W who is listening and seeing you finally. Let all of this, all of these lessons come together at once. You will find joy and that's where we are closest to the divine.
Peace...now go out there and have a good time!
Think about your son. You used to value him and acted towards him being controlled by your mind. Where did it get you and him? Now you live for him through your heart and soul and look where you and him are!
The mind is great for doing shittt like interpreting tax code or something, but it's only a tool, like our eyes or feet or something.
Your so close! You have expressed so much to your W who is listening and seeing you finally. Let all of this, all of these lessons come together at once. You will find joy and that's where we are closest to the divine.
Peace...now go out there and have a good time!
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/05/12 07:03 PM
BTW Crimson...I need this lesson too so I'll be doing the same...let's compare notes as we go....
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/05/12 07:57 PM
Great insights, Rick. Truthfully, excessive analysis and the subsequent fear and worry that it causes has always been an obstacle in my life. Fuethermore - living to love is a very "green" concept for me - trying to get that one figured out still.
I hope you are right about me being "close". Somedays I feel like it and others I feel like all is damn near lost. Somewhere between those two extremes is my my excessively analytical mind at all times. Looking in the rearview, I can see where that has been tremendously limiting for my growth and my relationship with my w and s.
I told her in iur last MC that the Crimson she knew 6 months to a year ago is not the same one that exists now.....I am hoping that at some point that message hits home. Time.....just time.
Crimson
I hope you are right about me being "close". Somedays I feel like it and others I feel like all is damn near lost. Somewhere between those two extremes is my my excessively analytical mind at all times. Looking in the rearview, I can see where that has been tremendously limiting for my growth and my relationship with my w and s.
I told her in iur last MC that the Crimson she knew 6 months to a year ago is not the same one that exists now.....I am hoping that at some point that message hits home. Time.....just time.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/05/12 10:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Crimson
Great insights, Rick. Truthfully, excessive analysis and the subsequent fear and worry that it causes has always been an obstacle in my life. Fuethermore - living to love is a very "green" concept for me - trying to get that one figured out still.
I hope you are right about me being "close". Somedays I feel like it and others I feel like all is damn near lost. Somewhere between those two extremes is my my excessively analytical mind at all times. Looking in the rearview, I can see where that has been tremendously limiting for my growth and my relationship with my w and s.
I told her in iur last MC that the Crimson she knew 6 months to a year ago is not the same one that exists now.....I am hoping that at some point that message hits home. Time.....just time.
Crimson
I hope you are right about me being "close". Somedays I feel like it and others I feel like all is damn near lost. Somewhere between those two extremes is my my excessively analytical mind at all times. Looking in the rearview, I can see where that has been tremendously limiting for my growth and my relationship with my w and s.
I told her in iur last MC that the Crimson she knew 6 months to a year ago is not the same one that exists now.....I am hoping that at some point that message hits home. Time.....just time.
Crimson
Yeah man you can do this. If you can do so much this past year with just the mind and its limitations (remember that's not an insult at all to your intelligence) then think about how your life in your R and new M will be on a higer plane than ever before. Once you and the universe walk in step together, then there will be no limits to your life. Think of how your son's life will be if has your native intelligence and a knowledge of how to "live". Think of where he can go and what you will have given the world.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 03:52 PM
Probably not a MAJOR issue - but who knows. Insights appreciated.
So as I mentioned a few posts ago, W was having a rough, stressful weekend with out S. Again, he is almost two and has hit that magical age where they are just kind of high maintenance, cranky and testing limits....big time. I could tell when we hung out a little bit that it really had her wiped out.
So I have him now and had him Sunday night and yesterday. I sent her a quick text yesterday to see how she was feeling and she said it was a tough day at work and that she was exhausted and needed time to regroup. She went to bed early and was too tired to talk to the baby.
This morning she texts me and says that she is staying home from work - that the stress has gotten to her. I asked if there was anything I could do to help - she said no, that she just needed rest. If it comes to the point where she is missing work due to exhaustion - I get a little worried. She is STILL majorly under-weight right now, working a new job, living on her own and trying to navigate this D or R as best she can.
I always wonder if she is eating enough, etc. - I don't think the pace of all of these activities is sustainable for her over the long haul. Is the best thing I can do right now "nothing"? I don't have any plans to ride in on a white horse and save the day - just hate to see her suffering and unable to deal with it.
It's hard to balance genuine care and concern against keep the appropriate amount of distance. I don't want her to get any worse. For now, I will just respect her and let her rest. Thoughts?
Crimson
Crimson
So as I mentioned a few posts ago, W was having a rough, stressful weekend with out S. Again, he is almost two and has hit that magical age where they are just kind of high maintenance, cranky and testing limits....big time. I could tell when we hung out a little bit that it really had her wiped out.
So I have him now and had him Sunday night and yesterday. I sent her a quick text yesterday to see how she was feeling and she said it was a tough day at work and that she was exhausted and needed time to regroup. She went to bed early and was too tired to talk to the baby.
This morning she texts me and says that she is staying home from work - that the stress has gotten to her. I asked if there was anything I could do to help - she said no, that she just needed rest. If it comes to the point where she is missing work due to exhaustion - I get a little worried. She is STILL majorly under-weight right now, working a new job, living on her own and trying to navigate this D or R as best she can.
I always wonder if she is eating enough, etc. - I don't think the pace of all of these activities is sustainable for her over the long haul. Is the best thing I can do right now "nothing"? I don't have any plans to ride in on a white horse and save the day - just hate to see her suffering and unable to deal with it.
It's hard to balance genuine care and concern against keep the appropriate amount of distance. I don't want her to get any worse. For now, I will just respect her and let her rest. Thoughts?
Crimson
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 04:15 PM
I have dealt with this recently as well and I think you can periodically check in and ask her if their is anything you can do to help but if she says no you need to respect that and just be there for her if she changes her mind.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 04:24 PM
Let her rest. You have S. That is doing something.
Sure, you would like to do "something" to make her feel better. Doing nothing is that something.
Concern is good. Leave it at that.
Sure, you would like to do "something" to make her feel better. Doing nothing is that something.
Concern is good. Leave it at that.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 04:29 PM
[quote[I asked if there was anything I could do to help - she said no, that she just needed rest.[/quote]That's it. You asked, she answered. Keep asking or keep going at it and it's you knowing better than her. If she wants help she's going to have to ask or at least say yes.
I know it's hard. Last night I did the same thing after my W told me she's lost another five pounds and said some things. But I limited it to one question, "I worry about you, are you doing ok?" She said no, she's not, but she's working on it and thinks she'll figure it out. Ok. End of discussion then.
This will sound harsh, but not your problem. You don't want her to get any worse, but it's also outside your control or influence. If you feel the need to do something then focus on your son and yourself.
And I had to cite this statement because it just struck me as a not good thing... for now? At some point you won't respect her words and ride on in? Push the issue? She's not your child, she's your W and an adult. You can control you. If you want to plan for what happens when/if she completely falls apart and you end up with your S full-time, that's an option I suppose. But you don't take care of her. Not unless she asks for the help, and then you may not want to either.
You no longer have a duty to her. She is acting as if she is not married. You are acting as if you are. That is not an equal relationship between two adults.
I know... she's the mother of your child, trust me I completely get this. I am there too. But if a friend completely fell apart and came to you asking for help, what would you do? Would you take them in? Would you house them? Financially support them? Those are questions you need to ask. At this point she is your friend, maybe. Set that boundary and use it as your guide.
I know it's hard. Last night I did the same thing after my W told me she's lost another five pounds and said some things. But I limited it to one question, "I worry about you, are you doing ok?" She said no, she's not, but she's working on it and thinks she'll figure it out. Ok. End of discussion then.
Quote:
I don't want her to get any worse.
Quote:
For now, I will just respect her and let her rest.
You no longer have a duty to her. She is acting as if she is not married. You are acting as if you are. That is not an equal relationship between two adults.
I know... she's the mother of your child, trust me I completely get this. I am there too. But if a friend completely fell apart and came to you asking for help, what would you do? Would you take them in? Would you house them? Financially support them? Those are questions you need to ask. At this point she is your friend, maybe. Set that boundary and use it as your guide.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 04:37 PM
"I always wonder if she is eating enough, etc. - I don't think the pace of all of these activities is sustainable for her over the long haul. Is the best thing I can do right now "nothing"? I don't have any plans to ride in on a white horse and save the day - just hate to see her suffering and unable to deal with it.
It's hard to balance genuine care and concern against keep the appropriate amount of distance. I don't want her to get any worse. For now, I will just respect her and let her rest. Thoughts?"
Crimson, check out recent events over the past few days on my sitch and the advice I've received from others and you'll have your answer.
Don't solve anything for her, don't fix, don't fuss, don't do anything but "respect her and let her rest."
It's hard to balance genuine care and concern against keep the appropriate amount of distance. I don't want her to get any worse. For now, I will just respect her and let her rest. Thoughts?"
Crimson, check out recent events over the past few days on my sitch and the advice I've received from others and you'll have your answer.
Don't solve anything for her, don't fix, don't fuss, don't do anything but "respect her and let her rest."
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 05:10 PM
Originally Posted By: Crimson
It's hard to balance genuine care and concern against keep the appropriate amount of distance. I don't want her to get any worse. For now, I will just respect her and let her rest. Thoughts?
IMO, this is your answer. You've offered and she's declined. Now stop and just keep an eye out. If something happens that you feel is life threatening, step in. Otherwise, her struggle may be what she needs to face what is happening with her.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 05:28 PM
To clarify, by "for now" I meant that if something looks dire - where she is a threat to herself or S - then I will be a bit more involved. I do NOT expect that at all, and it would have to be something that is PLAINLY OBVIOUS and indicative of the fact that something in 100% our of whack. In light of that, I will remain in my own space and let her be.
I know things will start to get harder for me too, soon. I am bracing for it. However, I am starting to notice that he gives her a harder time than he does me. Maybe it's my size and kinda loud voice -- I don't know. She complains that he gets up at 5:30 at her place. At my place (formerly "our") he sleeps till 8 or later on the weekends. Things just seem to be "different" based on who he is with. Granted, yes - he DID dump all of his food on the floor this morning in protest of me taking him away from his tv show - and yes, that landed him in time out. But for the moment, I seem to be able to deal with it OK.
Part of me looks at this and wants to help - even if it IS really minor. However, part of me says this is just an effect of the choices she has made (I do NOT say that in a vendictive manner). Still, seeing her in a hard place is difficult for me to just "observe" - but that is where I am and that is what I will do.
You all may be right - maybe she needs this struggle right now.
Crimson
I know things will start to get harder for me too, soon. I am bracing for it. However, I am starting to notice that he gives her a harder time than he does me. Maybe it's my size and kinda loud voice -- I don't know. She complains that he gets up at 5:30 at her place. At my place (formerly "our") he sleeps till 8 or later on the weekends. Things just seem to be "different" based on who he is with. Granted, yes - he DID dump all of his food on the floor this morning in protest of me taking him away from his tv show - and yes, that landed him in time out. But for the moment, I seem to be able to deal with it OK.
Part of me looks at this and wants to help - even if it IS really minor. However, part of me says this is just an effect of the choices she has made (I do NOT say that in a vendictive manner). Still, seeing her in a hard place is difficult for me to just "observe" - but that is where I am and that is what I will do.
You all may be right - maybe she needs this struggle right now.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 05:41 PM
Quote:
However, I am starting to notice that he gives her a harder time than he does me.
Typically this manifests in one of three ways. The most common is acting out to garner negative attention. The second is overachieving to garner praise. The third is to assume some type of "victim" status (tummyaches, fatigue, undefined symptoms, etc...) so they are taken care of.
If your W is as wrapped in herself as it sounds (and as many WAS are) then it really shouldn't be a surprise if he's more of a handful there. He wants attention, and since he's two he's going to get it. Based on the changes you've appeared to make so far it also makes sense that he's less of a handful for you because he gets attention therefore he doesn't have to go seek it.
I see it with my S (he's five). I have always been much more invested in him, and now that she is alone with three kids it's doubly so. She routinely complains that he is such a handful and she struggles with him. I used to give advice now I don't. If she asks for ideas then I share strategies that work for me.
But "spend time with your kid instead of yourself (and watching Spongebob while you're on the computer doesn't count)" is a hard message to deliver in a manner that isn't insulting.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 05:56 PM
Not sure on that one, WHG - you may be right, but I know she spends a LOT of time with him. Hell, she doesn't even have a TV in her house so the ability for EITHER of them to tune the other out might be a bit hard. She does enjoy him, and they go everywhere together.
My take is this -- and I am no professional. I suspect that now that he is coming out of the cute and cuddly phase and starting to assert himself a bit more the romantic vision of motherhood (SINGLE motherhood, especially) is starting to vanish and the harder parts are starting to appear. Furthermore, and I can say this of myself as well, the prospect of having to deal with that all by yourself with no backup is pretty frightening - becasue at this stage it is fairly obvious that it will get worse before it gets better. AND, as mentioned before, neither of us really has a back-up or "relief pitcher" - we have no shelter when it gets to be too much.
I could be wrong, but I think that is a big part of it. And let's face it - she has a lot of balls in the air right now with the D and L's and other garbage going on. Again, I know there is nothing I can do - but I do feel for her. This really bites for her and me both.
Crimson
My take is this -- and I am no professional. I suspect that now that he is coming out of the cute and cuddly phase and starting to assert himself a bit more the romantic vision of motherhood (SINGLE motherhood, especially) is starting to vanish and the harder parts are starting to appear. Furthermore, and I can say this of myself as well, the prospect of having to deal with that all by yourself with no backup is pretty frightening - becasue at this stage it is fairly obvious that it will get worse before it gets better. AND, as mentioned before, neither of us really has a back-up or "relief pitcher" - we have no shelter when it gets to be too much.
I could be wrong, but I think that is a big part of it. And let's face it - she has a lot of balls in the air right now with the D and L's and other garbage going on. Again, I know there is nothing I can do - but I do feel for her. This really bites for her and me both.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 06:41 PM
Really, Crimson I think all of the advise you got here was basically the same message.
Your W must be needing some down time right about now - the MC, single parenting, the D sitch, so much. It's probably a good thing for all of you that she has a no strings attached time out.
Your W must be needing some down time right about now - the MC, single parenting, the D sitch, so much. It's probably a good thing for all of you that she has a no strings attached time out.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 09:26 PM
So here is a general WAW question regarding where I am today and where my W is today. - Is this part of the WAW process?
By that, I mean the sudden onset of stress and stress-based depression? W does not seem to be doing well today at all - sounds "dead" and listless...almost drugged. The combination of everything that is going on at once has got to be crippling - filing for D, moving out, raising a toddler, learning to live alone, contemplating R, wanting another baby, dealing with the stress of a new job....all of that at once is pretty major. Is this kind of periodic emotional "shut down" typical with a WAW? I have no idea...and perhaps there is not real WAW "playbook".
Here's how jacked my ego is right now. I hear her sounding bad, being depressed...being stressed and I automatically think it's because of me. I feel like she is stressed because she doesn't want to reconcile, has no feelings for me. I KNOW THIS IS DESTRUCTIVE.....and I am trying to shake it....it is not all about me. But whenever I see her not doing well, I have conditioned myself to react as if I am the root cause. Like her unhappiness is directly tied to me and what I say or do. Like on bad or stressful day for her equals "no desire to save marriage".
She has said repeatedly that she just "needs rest" and is "wiped out". Maybe she is just mentally whipped. I have no idea.
Crimson
By that, I mean the sudden onset of stress and stress-based depression? W does not seem to be doing well today at all - sounds "dead" and listless...almost drugged. The combination of everything that is going on at once has got to be crippling - filing for D, moving out, raising a toddler, learning to live alone, contemplating R, wanting another baby, dealing with the stress of a new job....all of that at once is pretty major. Is this kind of periodic emotional "shut down" typical with a WAW? I have no idea...and perhaps there is not real WAW "playbook".
Here's how jacked my ego is right now. I hear her sounding bad, being depressed...being stressed and I automatically think it's because of me. I feel like she is stressed because she doesn't want to reconcile, has no feelings for me. I KNOW THIS IS DESTRUCTIVE.....and I am trying to shake it....it is not all about me. But whenever I see her not doing well, I have conditioned myself to react as if I am the root cause. Like her unhappiness is directly tied to me and what I say or do. Like on bad or stressful day for her equals "no desire to save marriage".
She has said repeatedly that she just "needs rest" and is "wiped out". Maybe she is just mentally whipped. I have no idea.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 09:38 PM
I think it's typical human behavior when under a lot of stress in life.
And also, about your son reacting differently with each parent. This is also pretty typical. Parents are different people with different parenting styles, personalities, types of play, stress thresholds. bottom lines. Kids begin learning this from the moment they come out of the womb. There are studies that show infants responding differently to mom and dad. Very cool stuff.
And so it follows that they learn to do what mom responds to and what dad responds to. They are smart little humans.
I would guess what you described a few posts back is just that.
And also, about your son reacting differently with each parent. This is also pretty typical. Parents are different people with different parenting styles, personalities, types of play, stress thresholds. bottom lines. Kids begin learning this from the moment they come out of the womb. There are studies that show infants responding differently to mom and dad. Very cool stuff.
And so it follows that they learn to do what mom responds to and what dad responds to. They are smart little humans.
I would guess what you described a few posts back is just that.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 10:22 PM
Originally Posted By: Crimson
So here is a general WAW question regarding where I am today and where my W is today. - Is this part of the WAW process?
By that, I mean the sudden onset of stress and stress-based depression? W does not seem to be doing well today at all - sounds "dead" and listless...almost drugged. The combination of everything that is going on at once has got to be crippling - filing for D, moving out, raising a toddler, learning to live alone, contemplating R, wanting another baby, dealing with the stress of a new job....all of that at once is pretty major. Is this kind of periodic emotional "shut down" typical with a WAW? I have no idea...and perhaps there is not real WAW "playbook".
Here's how jacked my ego is right now. I hear her sounding bad, being depressed...being stressed and I automatically think it's because of me. I feel like she is stressed because she doesn't want to reconcile, has no feelings for me. I KNOW THIS IS DESTRUCTIVE.....and I am trying to shake it....it is not all about me. But whenever I see her not doing well, I have conditioned myself to react as if I am the root cause. Like her unhappiness is directly tied to me and what I say or do. Like on bad or stressful day for her equals "no desire to save marriage".
She has said repeatedly that she just "needs rest" and is "wiped out". Maybe she is just mentally whipped. I have no idea.
Crimson
By that, I mean the sudden onset of stress and stress-based depression? W does not seem to be doing well today at all - sounds "dead" and listless...almost drugged. The combination of everything that is going on at once has got to be crippling - filing for D, moving out, raising a toddler, learning to live alone, contemplating R, wanting another baby, dealing with the stress of a new job....all of that at once is pretty major. Is this kind of periodic emotional "shut down" typical with a WAW? I have no idea...and perhaps there is not real WAW "playbook".
Here's how jacked my ego is right now. I hear her sounding bad, being depressed...being stressed and I automatically think it's because of me. I feel like she is stressed because she doesn't want to reconcile, has no feelings for me. I KNOW THIS IS DESTRUCTIVE.....and I am trying to shake it....it is not all about me. But whenever I see her not doing well, I have conditioned myself to react as if I am the root cause. Like her unhappiness is directly tied to me and what I say or do. Like on bad or stressful day for her equals "no desire to save marriage".
She has said repeatedly that she just "needs rest" and is "wiped out". Maybe she is just mentally whipped. I have no idea.
Crimson
Crimson it's both typical WAS behavior, and typical person behavior. Seriously, my W went through this exact same thing this past weekend. I'm swear to you it's for the best. She has so much to unravel, look at, put back together. And just because we didn't do it the same way has no bearing on it.
And yeah, don't tie it all to you, and thinking it's because she realized you guys are a fail. Guess what, I did just the opposite of you. Whenever she was in the dumps I would think and feel great because i thought she is finally seeing how she "f"'ed up and will come back. And then I would be bummed when she didn't want to reconcile right then. I would set myself up to fail over and over again.
She has to do this herself, in her own time, with you just being out there silently if she needs you. And you need to keep making the progress in the newly upgraded Crimson life.
Be happy!
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 10:24 PM
Crimson - sometimes the mind is a terrible thing to "use" So counterintuitive huh? Don't think yourself into a corner!
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 10:26 PM
rick you are on a roll today. (not to be confused with a rickroll)
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 10:45 PM
Originally Posted By: labug
rick you are on a roll today. (not to be confused with a rickroll)
What's a rick roll?
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 10:54 PM
Thanks Rick, GM, LA and all.
I realize that this is something that she has to get through on her own - and is most likely part of the process she is going through. I accept that there is very little that I can do to help at the moment. And I am doing my best to make sure I don't pin it all on me - but that is hard to do.
She texted me a few minutes ago and asked me to keep our S tonight - that she does not want him to see her like this - said that she was crying too much to take care of him. She then just texted "nervous breakdown". I asked is something specific happened or if it was just everything adding up at once - she said the latter.
Though I accept that there is litte to nothing I can do, I hate to see her in this shape - it really hurts my heart. If she thinks she is on the edge of a nervous breakdown - it looks like all I can do is stand here and watch.
I don't want her to be a danger to herself. Her calling off work and crying all day is not good at all....her not wanting the baby on her night is not good.
Naturally, it is in my being to just swoop in and try to fix everything - but I know I am not there right now and that would do more harm than good.
Crimson
I realize that this is something that she has to get through on her own - and is most likely part of the process she is going through. I accept that there is very little that I can do to help at the moment. And I am doing my best to make sure I don't pin it all on me - but that is hard to do.
She texted me a few minutes ago and asked me to keep our S tonight - that she does not want him to see her like this - said that she was crying too much to take care of him. She then just texted "nervous breakdown". I asked is something specific happened or if it was just everything adding up at once - she said the latter.
Though I accept that there is litte to nothing I can do, I hate to see her in this shape - it really hurts my heart. If she thinks she is on the edge of a nervous breakdown - it looks like all I can do is stand here and watch.
I don't want her to be a danger to herself. Her calling off work and crying all day is not good at all....her not wanting the baby on her night is not good.Naturally, it is in my being to just swoop in and try to fix everything - but I know I am not there right now and that would do more harm than good.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 11:02 PM
Originally Posted By: rickb89
Originally Posted By: labug
rick you are on a roll today. (not to be confused with a rickroll)
What's a rick roll?
Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down...
Google search, sir! There's probably a very thorough wikipedia entry about the history of the rickroll.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 11:09 PM
"Though I accept that there is litte to nothing I can do, I hate to see her in this shape - it really hurts my heart. If she thinks she is on the edge of a nervous breakdown - it looks like all I can do is stand here and watch. I don't want her to be a danger to herself. Her calling off work and crying all day is not good at all....her not wanting the baby on her night is not good.
Naturally, it is in my being to just swoop in and try to fix everything - but I know I am not there right now and that would do more harm than good."
One text to her saying: "I'm here if you need me" This is all that is needed right now.
This ^^^ will send the message that she can come to you if it is necessary but you are not hovering and giving her the space she is needing.
Just a suggestion, take it or leave it. No harm, no foul.
Naturally, it is in my being to just swoop in and try to fix everything - but I know I am not there right now and that would do more harm than good."
One text to her saying: "I'm here if you need me" This is all that is needed right now.
This ^^^ will send the message that she can come to you if it is necessary but you are not hovering and giving her the space she is needing.
Just a suggestion, take it or leave it. No harm, no foul.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/06/12 11:10 PM
Crimson, I assume that you're taking your S... that's probably all the fixing that's needed right now. Ask if there's anything else you can do, and if not, just go and enjoy a little time with S.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 01:56 AM
I am, in fact, taking my son. W called not long after we got home - wanted to talk to S a little - she sounded a little better, but not good. She asked if I could take S to babysitter in the morning - which is fine.
She said she just kind of "broke down" today. It could be any number of factors closing in at one time - no clue. I just told her I am here if she needs anything - that was about it.
Trying to shake the idea that this has something to do with me - but it is not easy. To be honest, it's hard for me to suppress the anxiety it's causing me at the moment - but I won't let it get to me. Whatever it is with her being on wobbly footing makes me feel like she is running from the R. I know this is mind reading and not necessarily healthy for me. Trying to break the habit. Just being honest.
Wish I could help, wish I knew what triggered everything.
Crimson
She said she just kind of "broke down" today. It could be any number of factors closing in at one time - no clue. I just told her I am here if she needs anything - that was about it.
Trying to shake the idea that this has something to do with me - but it is not easy. To be honest, it's hard for me to suppress the anxiety it's causing me at the moment - but I won't let it get to me. Whatever it is with her being on wobbly footing makes me feel like she is running from the R. I know this is mind reading and not necessarily healthy for me. Trying to break the habit. Just being honest.
Wish I could help, wish I knew what triggered everything.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 02:41 AM
Sometimes the 2x4 is welcomed. Thanks, GM. I have a long and storied history of getting lost in my head with these things. Probably exacerbated by the fact that someone I care about is in distress. Tomorrow will be better for her, and for me as well.
Crimson
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 02:54 AM
Crimson I have never posted to u, I don't think? What strikes me is that u have never posted to anyone else? Are u that weak, selfish, lost? The way I see it is that everyone tippy toes around u even on this board. Not sure why yet but I think your sitch would be further along if we were more direct with u. Correct me if I'm wrong. It is all about taking that leap.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 02:57 AM
Thank you Gabby... I read this post while at a Board meeting tonight and thought the same thing.
Crimson... it's easy to do, I know. I do it too. You assume that her problems with the world must be because of you. After all, what is in her life that is bigger than you?
But you know what? Who cares. Maybe her problems are related to you. But if she isn't going to tell you then what are you to do about them? So if she tells you specifically then you can do something about it, if you want to. If she doesn't... well, then there's lots of other stuff that can make her world not good.
Tonight my W was pretty cross when we left S's P/T conference. It was after I looked at SD's report card and apparently didn't notice something she wanted me to notice. I was upset. She was cross with me and I felt it was unfair. But then I stepped back... was this really it? Or is it more likely court on Friday or SS's pending conference or bills or god knows what else.
So I dismissed it. Previously I would've fixated and texted or called her to try and fix it. But just let it go. She'll get over it or she won't.
Your W has lots going on. She'll deal with or she won't. In either event it's highly unlikely it's you specifically.
Crimson... it's easy to do, I know. I do it too. You assume that her problems with the world must be because of you. After all, what is in her life that is bigger than you?
But you know what? Who cares. Maybe her problems are related to you. But if she isn't going to tell you then what are you to do about them? So if she tells you specifically then you can do something about it, if you want to. If she doesn't... well, then there's lots of other stuff that can make her world not good.
Tonight my W was pretty cross when we left S's P/T conference. It was after I looked at SD's report card and apparently didn't notice something she wanted me to notice. I was upset. She was cross with me and I felt it was unfair. But then I stepped back... was this really it? Or is it more likely court on Friday or SS's pending conference or bills or god knows what else.
So I dismissed it. Previously I would've fixated and texted or called her to try and fix it. But just let it go. She'll get over it or she won't.
Your W has lots going on. She'll deal with or she won't. In either event it's highly unlikely it's you specifically.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 03:29 AM
Crimson I'm ordering you to lighten up. Take up MMA or something to let all the crap out...don't worry so much! Join Fight Club! I'm saying this in jest and as a friend. DUDE you have to learn to shut the freakout-ometer off. You have to deal with this before your M resumes.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 03:36 AM
Ok Tenbears...er bus.....did the google search....had actually heard of that!
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 08:17 AM
well Big C, this is a long one...but there are a lot of subjects to address. Everything from poop routines to marital issues from Piaget to Brazelton and Spock on child rearing.
Okay, I don't buy that Crimson is "more invested" in his son.
1) His wife isn't uninvolved or acting selfish vis a vis son, and 2) according to Crimson, Crimson is new to all this.
(Crimson--I don't mean to make you wince...but to refresh other lurkers or WHG, and to explain my comments^^^---)
Per Crimson, Crimson never changed a diaper before this. He never read a book to his son before this, never "took him places" including daycare, before this. He never put son to bed before all this. SHE did all of it.
So no, I don't believe that he's more invested than his wife. His involvement in son is new, and that might be getting more noticed by his son, but geez, his son is barely 2 so IDK...
Crimson, you may be right about the vocal tone and inflection being stronger or louder and something your son may notice more. Geez, our dogs listen to h better than me, although they slink in shame around him too...but I'm with them all day!! One raised voice from h and they OBEY...(hey, I'm just sayin')
anyhow I would not speculate a lot to your wife about it, in any way that could possibly be seen as critical of her. We are all sensitive with our first children/motherhood issues and from our spouse-it hurts more. Tread carefully.
Do you have more of a routine w/him? Maybe your w is more spontaneous, and there can be One downside to that...IDK...
My h was rarely around son in h's first year of med school, so son was with me FAR more, Yet son was more compliant with h. WTH?
Son slept more, and faster, and ate better when he was w/h while I was in night classes-(I finished law school at night, which could have been worse, and I only had one semester left...When people stare at us b/c it sounds insane, we tell them "but Son was born prematurely...by about 5 years"...
we adapted the plans we made b/c God had made His own plans, thankfully...
In a way it kind of seemed unfair to me that others got more "good behavior" from son than I did (but son was never a "terrible two year old" or a brat. Just got cranky at times and more demanding, with ME)...
Then I began working full time and son was at a wonderful nanny's home. She loved son and got him on a schedule and he always behaved and followed HER routine.
I was hospitalized while pregnant with our 2nd child ( 1d). Our son began watching the same 2-3 movies constantly (e.g., "Lady & the Tramp" "Sleeping Beauty" and "Milo & Otis") This made the nanny worry.
Son watched those films probably 100 times in a 60 or 90 day period. Nanny was alarmed.
But Our fav pediatrician quoted some "expert" who I LIKED A LOT...b/c she said "kids like predictability in general, and even more so in times of crisis." That made a lot of sense to me.
So he watched the movies when I got home from the hospital too (I wasn't that physically active then anyhow) and at that time, when he asked about watching a "moonie", I always said "SURE!"
Today - Son is a great young man. He's kind, smart and happy. He graduated from an excellent university w/honors, and is now very much in love w/ a young woman I myself would have chosen for him!!...(Heck Yes I AM one grateful mother!!)
Point is, I guess all his digestive problems, his uber pickiness as an eater, his "disparate treatment" of me w/his bedtime ordeals, all seem to have worked themselves out... yours will too.
oh one last thought on this topic, to reassure you--when I joined the Army (b/c "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em)"
there was a 15 week training period I had to attend, without my family.
Thankfully, the JAG Corps (the branch in the Army for Lawyers) school was only 3 hours drive from where we lived. I went home every weekend I could.
Still, this was very very hard on me and son, and h. My mother helped out as best she could.
That 15 weeks was the longest 15 weeks of my life.
but Crimson---3 things happened b/c of that hard time apart.
1) H bonded with our son way more than he would have otherwise.
2) my mom helped a lot at night, too. She & son permanently bonded in a way she has not with other 27 grandchildren, (including my other children). She's still close to son. Though her dementia has increased, her recall of son is strong and he visits her more often than any other grandchild does.
So Crimson, the "pay offs" from that time together, still live on & keep growing, & yield fruit beyond what I had imagined or hoped.
Even though she forgets most of my nieces/nephews names now, or what I just said 10 minutes earlier, she recognizes Son. lights up when he visits and is overjoyed to see him. They have a special bond that would not have happened, but for those 15 weeks. I know this.
3) Finally, back then at bedtime, son learned that I would NOT come rushing in after 3 minutes of his crying. SO son learned to soothe himself, and if I'd been there, maybe I would have hindered that.
that improved the quality of son's sleep AND MINE...
Turns out that Army separation was a blessing in disguise.
Dr. Brazelton said
"your baby needs to be able to rely on parents for all his NEEDS,
b/c meeting his needs creates security in the child (ie so the child has an optimistic view that the world is a good place to be) and
security breeds independence.
I liked that, and I really took it to heart.
I wonder if it applies to adults too. As in,
If we know our needs will be met in our marriage (physical & emotional and in each other's love languages), we learn that our marriage is a safe relationship
and that creates security/trust
and
that trust & security, creates stronger more independent, happier adults (no co-dependency!!)
Just food for thought.
RE the poop problems....okay a fav topic around here...
boy do I recall those times vividly with our son...
Crimson, surely you can give your child softeners (NOT the same as "stimulating laxatives" - which can over stimulate and hurt w/painful cramps, unless a ped prescribes, obviously)
but don't freak about it all.
In retrospect, so much of this seems like it is a rite of passage for parents!
If it makes you feel better, I took son to the ER two or three times as an infant/toddler, for what can now only be described, in hindsight, as constipation...(and my h was in medical school)
I recall reading the doctor's notes. He wrote that son was "wailing in distress" and "patient seems inconsolable". I thought son was dying but turns out, maybe he just needed to poop. OMG...
SIGH...Crimson, this too, shall pass. (No pun intended...but I like it)
As for helping your sick/stressed w, some say offering to help is enough.
But if no action is taken & you sort of "knew" she'd refuse a verbal offer of help, it may ring hollow to her.
OTOH, that may be fine b/c she seems to want space...
Plus-- you do have son, so that might be the biggest thing you can do for her. (And make no mistake, she'll notice & she will take in the fact that if you are not around for son when she is sick, let alone help HER...she'll be alone). No need to point that out. She gets it.
But maybe a small gesture IF & only if you feel compelled, (and others can fire away if they want, it's not written in stone)
would be to drop off a meal or favorite food of hers, and leave it there.
And or maybe take son for extra time while she takes a bath or nap or sees a doctor (don't suggest it, but you could ask her if she had thought about it, offer to sit for son if so). No parent wants to spread their illness to their child.
The food you make (or buy, come to think of it) needs to be something healthy that you KNOW SHE likes/loves, that she can re-heat and enjoy...not something YOU stick around for though. Drop and leave, like a delivery guy. NO expectations...
It's just a small gesture for the ill mother of your child. Make light of it but be clear that is is just a small gesture for her...
It's those small thoughtful acts, imo, that build trust in the changes...not so much the big dramatic showy ones.
I know you offered to help. But in your sitch I would DO at least one small act or gesture that isn't at all controlling (like taking her to the doctor with whom YOU made an appointment for her without asking...NOT COOL unless she's unconscious...
Regardless Crimson, she already feels sick and stressed out, so you cannot have expectations, b/c that would ADD stress. You need to Really really get that.
Okay? Okay!
Sending you big hugs!
((( )))
Okay, I don't buy that Crimson is "more invested" in his son.
1) His wife isn't uninvolved or acting selfish vis a vis son, and 2) according to Crimson, Crimson is new to all this.
(Crimson--I don't mean to make you wince...but to refresh other lurkers or WHG, and to explain my comments^^^---)
Per Crimson, Crimson never changed a diaper before this. He never read a book to his son before this, never "took him places" including daycare, before this. He never put son to bed before all this. SHE did all of it.
So no, I don't believe that he's more invested than his wife. His involvement in son is new, and that might be getting more noticed by his son, but geez, his son is barely 2 so IDK...
Crimson, you may be right about the vocal tone and inflection being stronger or louder and something your son may notice more. Geez, our dogs listen to h better than me, although they slink in shame around him too...but I'm with them all day!! One raised voice from h and they OBEY...(hey, I'm just sayin')
anyhow I would not speculate a lot to your wife about it, in any way that could possibly be seen as critical of her. We are all sensitive with our first children/motherhood issues and from our spouse-it hurts more. Tread carefully.
Do you have more of a routine w/him? Maybe your w is more spontaneous, and there can be One downside to that...IDK...
My h was rarely around son in h's first year of med school, so son was with me FAR more, Yet son was more compliant with h. WTH?
Son slept more, and faster, and ate better when he was w/h while I was in night classes-(I finished law school at night, which could have been worse, and I only had one semester left...When people stare at us b/c it sounds insane, we tell them "but Son was born prematurely...by about 5 years"...
we adapted the plans we made b/c God had made His own plans, thankfully...
In a way it kind of seemed unfair to me that others got more "good behavior" from son than I did (but son was never a "terrible two year old" or a brat. Just got cranky at times and more demanding, with ME)...
Then I began working full time and son was at a wonderful nanny's home. She loved son and got him on a schedule and he always behaved and followed HER routine.
I was hospitalized while pregnant with our 2nd child ( 1d). Our son began watching the same 2-3 movies constantly (e.g., "Lady & the Tramp" "Sleeping Beauty" and "Milo & Otis") This made the nanny worry.
Son watched those films probably 100 times in a 60 or 90 day period. Nanny was alarmed.
But Our fav pediatrician quoted some "expert" who I LIKED A LOT...b/c she said "kids like predictability in general, and even more so in times of crisis." That made a lot of sense to me.
So he watched the movies when I got home from the hospital too (I wasn't that physically active then anyhow) and at that time, when he asked about watching a "moonie", I always said "SURE!"
Today - Son is a great young man. He's kind, smart and happy. He graduated from an excellent university w/honors, and is now very much in love w/ a young woman I myself would have chosen for him!!...(Heck Yes I AM one grateful mother!!)
Point is, I guess all his digestive problems, his uber pickiness as an eater, his "disparate treatment" of me w/his bedtime ordeals, all seem to have worked themselves out... yours will too.
oh one last thought on this topic, to reassure you--when I joined the Army (b/c "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em)"
there was a 15 week training period I had to attend, without my family.
Thankfully, the JAG Corps (the branch in the Army for Lawyers) school was only 3 hours drive from where we lived. I went home every weekend I could.
Still, this was very very hard on me and son, and h. My mother helped out as best she could.
That 15 weeks was the longest 15 weeks of my life.
but Crimson---3 things happened b/c of that hard time apart.
1) H bonded with our son way more than he would have otherwise.
2) my mom helped a lot at night, too. She & son permanently bonded in a way she has not with other 27 grandchildren, (including my other children). She's still close to son. Though her dementia has increased, her recall of son is strong and he visits her more often than any other grandchild does.
So Crimson, the "pay offs" from that time together, still live on & keep growing, & yield fruit beyond what I had imagined or hoped.
Even though she forgets most of my nieces/nephews names now, or what I just said 10 minutes earlier, she recognizes Son. lights up when he visits and is overjoyed to see him. They have a special bond that would not have happened, but for those 15 weeks. I know this.
3) Finally, back then at bedtime, son learned that I would NOT come rushing in after 3 minutes of his crying. SO son learned to soothe himself, and if I'd been there, maybe I would have hindered that.
that improved the quality of son's sleep AND MINE...
Turns out that Army separation was a blessing in disguise.
Dr. Brazelton said
"your baby needs to be able to rely on parents for all his NEEDS,
b/c meeting his needs creates security in the child (ie so the child has an optimistic view that the world is a good place to be) and
security breeds independence.
I liked that, and I really took it to heart.
I wonder if it applies to adults too. As in,
If we know our needs will be met in our marriage (physical & emotional and in each other's love languages), we learn that our marriage is a safe relationship
and that creates security/trust
and
that trust & security, creates stronger more independent, happier adults (no co-dependency!!)
Just food for thought.
RE the poop problems....okay a fav topic around here...
boy do I recall those times vividly with our son...
Crimson, surely you can give your child softeners (NOT the same as "stimulating laxatives" - which can over stimulate and hurt w/painful cramps, unless a ped prescribes, obviously)
but don't freak about it all.
In retrospect, so much of this seems like it is a rite of passage for parents!
If it makes you feel better, I took son to the ER two or three times as an infant/toddler, for what can now only be described, in hindsight, as constipation...(and my h was in medical school)
I recall reading the doctor's notes. He wrote that son was "wailing in distress" and "patient seems inconsolable". I thought son was dying but turns out, maybe he just needed to poop. OMG...
SIGH...Crimson, this too, shall pass. (No pun intended...but I like it)
As for helping your sick/stressed w, some say offering to help is enough.
But if no action is taken & you sort of "knew" she'd refuse a verbal offer of help, it may ring hollow to her.
OTOH, that may be fine b/c she seems to want space...
Plus-- you do have son, so that might be the biggest thing you can do for her. (And make no mistake, she'll notice & she will take in the fact that if you are not around for son when she is sick, let alone help HER...she'll be alone). No need to point that out. She gets it.
But maybe a small gesture IF & only if you feel compelled, (and others can fire away if they want, it's not written in stone)
would be to drop off a meal or favorite food of hers, and leave it there.
And or maybe take son for extra time while she takes a bath or nap or sees a doctor (don't suggest it, but you could ask her if she had thought about it, offer to sit for son if so). No parent wants to spread their illness to their child.
The food you make (or buy, come to think of it) needs to be something healthy that you KNOW SHE likes/loves, that she can re-heat and enjoy...not something YOU stick around for though. Drop and leave, like a delivery guy. NO expectations...
It's just a small gesture for the ill mother of your child. Make light of it but be clear that is is just a small gesture for her...
It's those small thoughtful acts, imo, that build trust in the changes...not so much the big dramatic showy ones.
I know you offered to help. But in your sitch I would DO at least one small act or gesture that isn't at all controlling (like taking her to the doctor with whom YOU made an appointment for her without asking...NOT COOL unless she's unconscious...
Regardless Crimson, she already feels sick and stressed out, so you cannot have expectations, b/c that would ADD stress. You need to Really really get that.
Okay? Okay!
Sending you big hugs!
((( )))
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 05:09 PM
Rick1963 - I will correct you where I think you are wrong. I have posted on other threads since joining the board -albeit not frequently - and I have been very honest historically as to why in my postings.
I am so new to this and still trying to figure out exactly what I am doing, how to handle my emotions what TO and NOT TO do. When I think I have something of value to post that can help someone - I post. Otherwise, I do a lot of reading of other threads and situations - but leave it to people that are more in the know than I to guide and advise. I don't think that is weak or selfish. I will concede to the point you made of me possibly being that "lost" - I do feel that way and have not tried to conceal it.
I think people contribute to this board in one of two ways, afterall - it IS "crowd-sourced". 1.) You are either someone that has really been through the mill or been here for awhile and really know your stuff - or just are in a better place to guide OR 2.) you post honestly and openly and hope that through other people guiding you others on the board will read and learn from your situation - I know for a fact that that has happened with me - on both the giving and receiving end.
I also do not agree with your assesment that people are tippy-toeing around me here, or anywhere else for that matter. I have been smacked dead between the eyes with a claw hammer more than once in my threads if people think I am off base or going the wrong way. 10 times out of 10 they have been right - and I was dead wrong. This medium provides for a lot of anonimity which makes having to walk on eggshells for people not that necessary. Check anything that has come from 25, Mach1, Sandi and a small list of others - they are direct, frank and brutally honest. And I, in turn, am grateful and hope that others benefit from reading the exchange.
This is not meant to be combative or defensive - just wanted to peacefully address what you brought up.
Crimson
I am so new to this and still trying to figure out exactly what I am doing, how to handle my emotions what TO and NOT TO do. When I think I have something of value to post that can help someone - I post. Otherwise, I do a lot of reading of other threads and situations - but leave it to people that are more in the know than I to guide and advise. I don't think that is weak or selfish. I will concede to the point you made of me possibly being that "lost" - I do feel that way and have not tried to conceal it.
I think people contribute to this board in one of two ways, afterall - it IS "crowd-sourced". 1.) You are either someone that has really been through the mill or been here for awhile and really know your stuff - or just are in a better place to guide OR 2.) you post honestly and openly and hope that through other people guiding you others on the board will read and learn from your situation - I know for a fact that that has happened with me - on both the giving and receiving end.
I also do not agree with your assesment that people are tippy-toeing around me here, or anywhere else for that matter. I have been smacked dead between the eyes with a claw hammer more than once in my threads if people think I am off base or going the wrong way. 10 times out of 10 they have been right - and I was dead wrong. This medium provides for a lot of anonimity which makes having to walk on eggshells for people not that necessary. Check anything that has come from 25, Mach1, Sandi and a small list of others - they are direct, frank and brutally honest. And I, in turn, am grateful and hope that others benefit from reading the exchange.
This is not meant to be combative or defensive - just wanted to peacefully address what you brought up.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 05:50 PM
25 - thanks for you typically isightful reply. In no particular order I cover a few things.
I did consider bringing by some food for her a day or two ago. Just in the manner you suggested - "hello....take food....good-bye". However, she texted me asking me not to come by because she needed rest. I respected that and stayed away. I think she gets edgy because during these times in her life she typicaly lets house keeping and other stuff go - and if history is any teacher, she didn't want me to see all of that.
I know that she is/was dreadfully stressed and I did not toss gas on the fire. I said I was available if she needed me and that was about it. She called this morning to talk to the baby and I told her that he was still sleeping - she was shocked and said "that littler stinker! he never sleeps this late for me!". She was on her way to work when she called so I am thinking she is feeling at least a little better. Clearly not 100%, but trying to get there. She said she would be better when she sees S. I've resigned myself to the fact that I will never know what triggered everything - but should not assume it was me.
Re: S and the terrible 2's. It is becoming more evident that he exhibits different behaviors depending on who he is with. Already it is clear that he sleeps his arse off at my place and does not sleep well with her. Funny things is, either way the ball breaks on this matter I am OK with is. I am suprised with how much crying and screaming I can take and still remain cool and not think it is a result of something I did. As long as I know he is not in pain or suffering somehow - I am juuuuust fine letting him cry if he can't drink syrup for dinner (yes, that really happened). I know that this is a developmental stage that will be filled with a lot of principle battles that we can't afford to lose. I think W and I are aligned on that opinion - despite the fact that I think it hits her harder.
The GI problems he is having sound just like what you experienced. He has already been to the ER once and the ped countless times. Still he struggles to poo at times and this TOTALLY is freaking my W out. She feels that something is really wrong and no one is giving us concrete answers. Somehow - I am not too concerned right now because I have heard of other parents having this issue. Right now, I have carved out dairy from his diet (as per ped GI doc) and he gets Mirilax daily. He'll be OK, and I don't think this is severe - but I CANNOT meet my w's concern with indifference right now. She always felt tha I never vauled her opinion on things - so I am letting her lead on this one and I support her decisions/conclusions.
Crimson
I did consider bringing by some food for her a day or two ago. Just in the manner you suggested - "hello....take food....good-bye". However, she texted me asking me not to come by because she needed rest. I respected that and stayed away. I think she gets edgy because during these times in her life she typicaly lets house keeping and other stuff go - and if history is any teacher, she didn't want me to see all of that.
I know that she is/was dreadfully stressed and I did not toss gas on the fire. I said I was available if she needed me and that was about it. She called this morning to talk to the baby and I told her that he was still sleeping - she was shocked and said "that littler stinker! he never sleeps this late for me!". She was on her way to work when she called so I am thinking she is feeling at least a little better. Clearly not 100%, but trying to get there. She said she would be better when she sees S. I've resigned myself to the fact that I will never know what triggered everything - but should not assume it was me.
Re: S and the terrible 2's. It is becoming more evident that he exhibits different behaviors depending on who he is with. Already it is clear that he sleeps his arse off at my place and does not sleep well with her. Funny things is, either way the ball breaks on this matter I am OK with is. I am suprised with how much crying and screaming I can take and still remain cool and not think it is a result of something I did. As long as I know he is not in pain or suffering somehow - I am juuuuust fine letting him cry if he can't drink syrup for dinner (yes, that really happened). I know that this is a developmental stage that will be filled with a lot of principle battles that we can't afford to lose. I think W and I are aligned on that opinion - despite the fact that I think it hits her harder.
The GI problems he is having sound just like what you experienced. He has already been to the ER once and the ped countless times. Still he struggles to poo at times and this TOTALLY is freaking my W out. She feels that something is really wrong and no one is giving us concrete answers. Somehow - I am not too concerned right now because I have heard of other parents having this issue. Right now, I have carved out dairy from his diet (as per ped GI doc) and he gets Mirilax daily. He'll be OK, and I don't think this is severe - but I CANNOT meet my w's concern with indifference right now. She always felt tha I never vauled her opinion on things - so I am letting her lead on this one and I support her decisions/conclusions.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 05:59 PM
Originally Posted By: Rick1963
Crimson I have never posted to u, I don't think? What strikes me is that u have never posted to anyone else? Are u that weak, selfish, lost? The way I see it is that everyone tippy toes around u even on this board. Not sure why yet but I think your sitch would be further along if we were more direct with u. Correct me if I'm wrong. It is all about taking that leap.
Rick1963, read the whole thread-all of them. If you have, then your post makes no sense. I wonder if you might be confusing Crimson with someone else???
I've been like many posters here---meaning, VERY direct with Crimson and he's taken it like a man who is willing to do brave inner work and has truly changed.
In fact, I think he's one of maybe 3 or 4 men I've "met" here, in my 6 years posting, that has truly been confronted with brutally honest feedback
and he's taken it all in and made serious changes within.
Since when have I ever tiptoed around someone? The only times I do that is when I believe the recipient is too raw or emotionally incapable of processing criticism...Crimson is NOT incapable of that at all.
I don't know where you are coming from or why you'd choose THIS MAN to say this to. Frankly, your post baffles me.
No one has tiptoed around HIM...are you sure you have the right person? B/c I think you are completely off base here. Or projecting your fears about how people post to you? It just occurred to me you might have been sarcastic. Was that it? I can't tell with the written word, but if you are joking THEN I get it...
Otherwise you just have the wrong person in mind or
you are ignoring a boatload of feedback this guy has gotten. If you are not kidding, then you're just wrong. I hate using that word, but it's applicable here.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 06:05 PM
ps
I also have no problem with him not posting to others yet. He's working on himself and I'd guess he does not yet feel qualified to comment on others.
I do have a problem with inexperienced posters who are not constructive,
and or- do not base their feedback on DB principles...
So when he's ready, I am confident Crimson will make significant positive contributions.
His thread has already triggered a lot of growth for many who read it.
People witnessing Crimson's journey on these threads, (and his journey is among the bravest I've seen), have learned A LOT and that has tremendous value.
I also have no problem with him not posting to others yet. He's working on himself and I'd guess he does not yet feel qualified to comment on others.
I do have a problem with inexperienced posters who are not constructive,
and or- do not base their feedback on DB principles...
So when he's ready, I am confident Crimson will make significant positive contributions.
His thread has already triggered a lot of growth for many who read it.
People witnessing Crimson's journey on these threads, (and his journey is among the bravest I've seen), have learned A LOT and that has tremendous value.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 06:26 PM
C, just to throw in my parenting perspective on things....
Though there are some tangible behaviors exhibited by your S (sleeping in late for you) there is much going on that just flies below the radar. I used to come home from 20 minutes at the grocery store and ask where 5yo S was, and H would say, "I don't know, he was here just a minute ago" (read 20 minutes.) I'm not relaying this to say H was a bad father, but just that it didn't bother him if he didn't know where/what S was doing every second, whereas I could tell you where he was, what he was doing, what sort of mood he was in, how many times he tooted, etc. Of course it was easier for H. Of course S was happier with him because he wasn't being monitored every second. And he didn't necessarily need to be because our house is relatively safe. Neither one of us was better than the other, but our individual styles warranted different responses from S. Now take that reality and compound it with the complications of your separation and the effects are exponential.
Or it could just be as simple as his easier for you because its his home that he's had since he was born.
Over-analyzing is fun! (*wink-wink*)
BTW, wasn't there an IC session or two scheduled for this week? Or am I off a week?
Though there are some tangible behaviors exhibited by your S (sleeping in late for you) there is much going on that just flies below the radar. I used to come home from 20 minutes at the grocery store and ask where 5yo S was, and H would say, "I don't know, he was here just a minute ago" (read 20 minutes.) I'm not relaying this to say H was a bad father, but just that it didn't bother him if he didn't know where/what S was doing every second, whereas I could tell you where he was, what he was doing, what sort of mood he was in, how many times he tooted, etc. Of course it was easier for H. Of course S was happier with him because he wasn't being monitored every second. And he didn't necessarily need to be because our house is relatively safe. Neither one of us was better than the other, but our individual styles warranted different responses from S. Now take that reality and compound it with the complications of your separation and the effects are exponential.
Or it could just be as simple as his easier for you because its his home that he's had since he was born.
Over-analyzing is fun! (*wink-wink*)
BTW, wasn't there an IC session or two scheduled for this week? Or am I off a week?
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 07:56 PM
Crimson - FWIW I agree with CV's perspective on this. For years my W has been critical of the fact that our kids behaved differently around me than her. Even today, with them being considerably older, she still has this complaint.
When they were very young, I would have no problem getting them to bed and to sleep in very short order. While there were times when she struggled. She often complained about the fact that they would be fussy with her all day and as soon as I walked in the room they would calm down,
I don't know what the root of that is other than perhaps what CV describes in her post. How mothers care for children is often very different than how fathers care for children. It doesn't make either one bad, just different and I suspect that it all plays into their overall emotional development.
Mothers have a tendency to keep very tight control on their kids, especially when they are very young. Fathers I think tend to be more permissive, letting the kids explore and learn for themselves. Again, not good or bad, just different.
As I reflect back on the very young periods in their lives I remember a time when S10 was maybe 6-9 mos old and he cried all night from the time he was put to bed until I couldn't take it anymore. Some time around 4:30am I finally got up and said that's it we're going for a drive. And off we went. At about the 100 mile mark, he finally fell asleep. So I kept driving certain he would wake as soon as I stopped.
The benefit of that particular event was that my W finally got to get a few hours sleep, my son finally fell asleep and although I was dead tired, I got to experience a spectacular sunrise out in the middle of the Texas hill country.
My W's memory is that he was fussy and she was tired and that's about it. My memory was that he was fussy and I was tired BUT I also saw a beautiful sunrise and got my son back to sleep.
So I guess my point is babies and small children will behave differently around each parent individually and also differently when both are present. It just goes with the territory.
When they were very young, I would have no problem getting them to bed and to sleep in very short order. While there were times when she struggled. She often complained about the fact that they would be fussy with her all day and as soon as I walked in the room they would calm down,
I don't know what the root of that is other than perhaps what CV describes in her post. How mothers care for children is often very different than how fathers care for children. It doesn't make either one bad, just different and I suspect that it all plays into their overall emotional development.
Mothers have a tendency to keep very tight control on their kids, especially when they are very young. Fathers I think tend to be more permissive, letting the kids explore and learn for themselves. Again, not good or bad, just different.
As I reflect back on the very young periods in their lives I remember a time when S10 was maybe 6-9 mos old and he cried all night from the time he was put to bed until I couldn't take it anymore. Some time around 4:30am I finally got up and said that's it we're going for a drive. And off we went. At about the 100 mile mark, he finally fell asleep. So I kept driving certain he would wake as soon as I stopped.
The benefit of that particular event was that my W finally got to get a few hours sleep, my son finally fell asleep and although I was dead tired, I got to experience a spectacular sunrise out in the middle of the Texas hill country.
My W's memory is that he was fussy and she was tired and that's about it. My memory was that he was fussy and I was tired BUT I also saw a beautiful sunrise and got my son back to sleep.
So I guess my point is babies and small children will behave differently around each parent individually and also differently when both are present. It just goes with the territory.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 08:03 PM
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
ps
People witnessing Crimson's journey on these threads, (and his journey is among the bravest I've seen), have learned A LOT and that has tremendous value.
People witnessing Crimson's journey on these threads, (and his journey is among the bravest I've seen), have learned A LOT and that has tremendous value.
I disagree. Why is he any braver than most of us here? I mean just because he was such an absent father who has "seen the light." I think it's an insult to many of the people here.
I've read all of his thread and frankly I don't see how he is that much different than a lot of guys here, except for his complete lack of being a partner to his wife.
I'm not saying he hasn't shown personal growth or had some valuable insights to himself. But the hyperbole is a little much.
Flame on.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 08:32 PM
Its okay for families to argue, as well as the DB family.
Keep it in mind that we all want to help each other, and Crimson, everyone here does care greatly about you and your family.
Peace to all DB,ers!
Keep it in mind that we all want to help each other, and Crimson, everyone here does care greatly about you and your family.
Peace to all DB,ers!
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 08:47 PM
Thank you, RB89 - I'll use this as an opportunity to walk away from this argument without weighing in.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 10:20 PM
A dash of argument in a family is healthy....it facilitates growth if done in a respectful manner and with knowledge that each is looking for a solution, not to win.
Everyone on this board is so full of emotion that, well, I'm suprised there aren't more DB board battles, but then again, look at the high quality of the people here.
And hey Crimson, people have opinions, you listened, and answered in a stand up manner. DB'ing applies in all our relationships.
Everyone on this board is so full of emotion that, well, I'm suprised there aren't more DB board battles, but then again, look at the high quality of the people here.
And hey Crimson, people have opinions, you listened, and answered in a stand up manner. DB'ing applies in all our relationships.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 10:36 PM
So w e-mailed me in the office to ask how s did this morning. I gave her a quick update. She apologized for me having to take him an extra day - which I did not mind at all and told her as much.
She relpied later and said that "I think all the counseling and appointments have become too much for me…hopefully will taper off soon." She followed up by saying that the appointments with our MC are "exhausting". I never really picked up on the from her after the sessions at all - they seemed to go well. I feel as if this has something to do with the "break down" she had earlier this week. I will fight my natural urge to jump to conclusions - but it feels....."weird" - to say the least. I am hoping she doesn't want to eject from MC with the intent of focusing on charging forward with D.
Guess we'll see.
Crimson
She relpied later and said that "I think all the counseling and appointments have become too much for me…hopefully will taper off soon." She followed up by saying that the appointments with our MC are "exhausting". I never really picked up on the from her after the sessions at all - they seemed to go well. I feel as if this has something to do with the "break down" she had earlier this week. I will fight my natural urge to jump to conclusions - but it feels....."weird" - to say the least. I am hoping she doesn't want to eject from MC with the intent of focusing on charging forward with D.
Guess we'll see.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 11:25 PM
What about the IC for each of you? When is that scheduled?
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/07/12 11:42 PM
"She relpied later and said that "I think all the counseling and appointments have become too much for me…hopefully will taper off soon." She followed up by saying that the appointments with our MC are "exhausting". I never really picked up on the from her after the sessions at all - they seemed to go well."
The MC sessions are draining on your W because she is spending time processing, after the fact. If all we did was process during the session and then not reflect on what we heard or what was said or what we intended to do with the information then there would be no growth.
The MC sessions are draining on your W because she is spending time processing, after the fact. If all we did was process during the session and then not reflect on what we heard or what was said or what we intended to do with the information then there would be no growth.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 12:14 AM
Originally Posted By: Harrier
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
ps
People witnessing Crimson's journey on these threads, (and his journey is among the bravest I've seen), have learned A LOT and that has tremendous value.
People witnessing Crimson's journey on these threads, (and his journey is among the bravest I've seen), have learned A LOT and that has tremendous value.
I disagree. Why is he any braver than most of us here? I mean just because he was such an absent father who has "seen the light." I think it's an insult to many of the people here.
I've read all of his thread and frankly I don't see how he is that much different than a lot of guys here, except for his complete lack of being a partner to his wife.
I'm not saying he hasn't shown personal growth or had some valuable insights to himself. But the hyperbole is a little much.
Flame on.
Wow I didn't see that coming. From where Crimson began, to where he is now, has been an amazing journey INWARD, with outward results as well. I'm amazed this bothers anyone.
Are you also saying no one else has learned from his journey?
I know for a fact that several others have said they are looking at his journey as a model for their own paths.
Crimson has changed himself by first looking at all of his own flaws (a feat in itself, & one that many LBSers never do)
and
so far, he really owned those flaws and he sure seems to be changing them.
It has nothing to do with other people, except that I think he has done more changing than most.
If the fact that he needed to change more, lessens him in your eyes, so be it.
I think it's another reason that most people would have looked away from their flaws instead of facing them.
As a follower of 12 step programs, I know how hard it is to take an inventory of ourselves and then to make amends.
But that's what I see Crimson doing. I meant every word I said.
I cannot see how that insults anyone.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 12:18 AM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
"She relpied later and said that "I think all the counseling and appointments have become too much for me…hopefully will taper off soon." She followed up by saying that the appointments with our MC are "exhausting". I never really picked up on the from her after the sessions at all - they seemed to go well."
The MC sessions are draining on your W because she is spending time processing, after the fact. If all we did was process during the session and then not reflect on what we heard or what was said or what we intended to do with the information then there would be no growth.
The MC sessions are draining on your W because she is spending time processing, after the fact. If all we did was process during the session and then not reflect on what we heard or what was said or what we intended to do with the information then there would be no growth.
I agree with this^^ so in a way it's good.
Tread carefully and don't fix...let her be.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 12:24 AM
Hey CV - MC for next week is stil on the calendar. My session is on the 13th and w's session is on the 14th. On the 12th we have a meeting with our reproductive endocrinologist. She has said nothing about cancelling any of them, but lord knows what can happen.
Not gonna read too much into it right now. Just giving space.
Crimson
Not gonna read too much into it right now. Just giving space.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 01:01 AM
Originally Posted By: 25
In fact, I think he's one of maybe 3 or 4 men I've "met" here, in my 6 years posting, that has truly been confronted with brutally honest feedback
and he's taken it all in and made serious changes within.
and he's taken it all in and made serious changes within.
25,
I rarely disagree with what you have to say, even if I might say it differently myself...
This though ^^^ leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.
Many, many men have come here broken and have grown and made changes that are just as great as Crimson has. Not just 3 or 4, and if that is all you have seen, maybe you need to check out the archives...
I find it insulting to the wonderful men who are here, trying to do something that both of us would have killed to have happen...
fight to save their marriages...
That, in itself, is commendable.
Originally Posted By: 25
I do have a problem with inexperienced posters who are not constructive,
and or- do not base their feedback on DB principles...
and or- do not base their feedback on DB principles...
No one comes to these boards an expert in DB principals.
It is through posting and receiving feedback that they learn how to apply DB concepts.
Were you an expert poster on your first post? Were you an expert poster when you first posted to another?
This is insulting to the so called "inexperienced posters" that read and learn off of ALL threads, especially ones like this, IMO.
Originally Posted By: 25
So when he's ready, I am confident Crimson will make significant positive contributions.
His thread has already triggered a lot of growth for many who read it.
People witnessing Crimson's journey on these threads, (and his journey is among the bravest I've seen), have learned A LOT and that has tremendous value.
His thread has already triggered a lot of growth for many who read it.
People witnessing Crimson's journey on these threads, (and his journey is among the bravest I've seen), have learned A LOT and that has tremendous value.
Personally, when I see people really grasping and applying the advice they are receiving, I encourage them to reach out to others as I believe it helps to solidify the growth they are experiencing.
What I have found is that posting to others is a great way to keep the lessons that we have learned and the DB principals fresh in our mind and our hearts.
Isn't that really what we are all here to do?
Crimson, sorry for the hijack...
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 02:23 AM
Evening Crimson. Sorry for the havoc I have caused to your thread. But I care about everyone in this board Because I know why they are here. I am not known to be a great communicator. I am very proud of the work you have done so far. You have more contact with your W than most. Yes I have read most of your threads regardless of what some may think. But when I read your posts all I see is you obsessing about you, your W, your child , D work and other stuff.
Others have asked you about GAL but I have never seeing you mention about it. Maybe I am not that sharp as a previous poster sumized. Correct me if I'm wrong butif your W trully leaves you what will you have as support?
I think you need to branch out, reach out to others in need you may learn something new or help someone. This is not all about you.
PS: be happy or be right is a great slogan only if you practice it.
Others have asked you about GAL but I have never seeing you mention about it. Maybe I am not that sharp as a previous poster sumized. Correct me if I'm wrong butif your W trully leaves you what will you have as support?
I think you need to branch out, reach out to others in need you may learn something new or help someone. This is not all about you.
PS: be happy or be right is a great slogan only if you practice it.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 04:07 AM
Crimson,
It must be nice having people argue about whether or not you're TOO good at DB! The great irony here is that while some may be holding you up as a shining example, you're still in a lot of pain. Let's not all forget that. Crimson is hurting. I vote that the argument should be dropped whether or not Crimson is the "best DB'er ever" and get back to focusing on helping and encouraging Crimson! Sheesh.
Accuray
It must be nice having people argue about whether or not you're TOO good at DB! The great irony here is that while some may be holding you up as a shining example, you're still in a lot of pain. Let's not all forget that. Crimson is hurting. I vote that the argument should be dropped whether or not Crimson is the "best DB'er ever" and get back to focusing on helping and encouraging Crimson! Sheesh.
Accuray
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 04:26 AM
Boy Crimson...you must feel like you cant escape controversy! Hey man you got big ones to own your M and personal issues...deal w the bomb....be a single dad...deal with your parents...your W...lawyers....baby embryos....hold down a job....maintain a house alone...sift thru a million DB posts, etc., and all the while never lose your cool or take anything but the high road.
I worry that you will worry and overthink yourself to death....but I know its because you want so much to do the right thing for W and son.
I keep saying that if you can live thru your heart and soul and it comes first you will be genuinely happier and the ebbs and flows wont cause so much stress.
Peace
I worry that you will worry and overthink yourself to death....but I know its because you want so much to do the right thing for W and son.
I keep saying that if you can live thru your heart and soul and it comes first you will be genuinely happier and the ebbs and flows wont cause so much stress.
Peace
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 04:44 AM
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: Harrier
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
ps
People witnessing Crimson's journey on these threads, (and his journey is among the bravest I've seen), have learned A LOT and that has tremendous value.
People witnessing Crimson's journey on these threads, (and his journey is among the bravest I've seen), have learned A LOT and that has tremendous value.
I disagree. Why is he any braver than most of us here? I mean just because he was such an absent father who has "seen the light." I think it's an insult to many of the people here.
I've read all of his thread and frankly I don't see how he is that much different than a lot of guys here, except for his complete lack of being a partner to his wife.
I'm not saying he hasn't shown personal growth or had some valuable insights to himself. But the hyperbole is a little much.
Flame on.
Wow I didn't see that coming. From where Crimson began, to where he is now, has been an amazing journey INWARD, with outward results as well. I'm amazed this bothers anyone.
Are you also saying no one else has learned from his journey?
I know for a fact that several others have said they are looking at his journey as a model for their own paths.
Crimson has changed himself by first looking at all of his own flaws (a feat in itself, & one that many LBSers never do)
and
so far, he really owned those flaws and he sure seems to be changing them.
It has nothing to do with other people, except that I think he has done more changing than most.
If the fact that he needed to change more, lessens him in your eyes, so be it.
I think it's another reason that most people would have looked away from their flaws instead of facing them.
As a follower of 12 step programs, I know how hard it is to take an inventory of ourselves and then to make amends.
But that's what I see Crimson doing. I meant every word I said.
I cannot see how that insults anyone.
No no no no.
My question was simple. Why is Crimson braver than most here? I don't think he is. I mean it was as little as 4 days ago that he still wasn't getting some of it.
I mean you don't think many of us take a hard look inward? How many of us did it pre-bomb. Some did. That is harder than reacting to an immediate crisis.
I suggest you & others read what I wrote instead of reading what you think is there.
I am not asking Crimson to defend himself, nor did I say he hasn't grown, nor did I say others can't learn from his journey.
I also never said his "transformation" bothered me. I just disagree with your assessment in relation to others.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 12:35 PM
Originally Posted By: cat04
Originally Posted By: 25
In fact, I think he's one of maybe 3 or 4 men I've "met" here, in my 6 years posting, that has truly been confronted with brutally honest feedback
and he's taken it all in and made serious changes within.
and he's taken it all in and made serious changes within.
25,
I rarely disagree with what you have to say, even if I might say it differently myself...
This though ^^^ leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.
Many, many men have come here broken and have grown and made changes that are just as great as Crimson has. Not just 3 or 4, and if that is all you have seen, maybe you need to check out the archives...
It is NOT all I've seen, as you probably know. Way back when, men like Was2sad and FaithfulH and FIB, Bworl, Mach, Jack3beans, 2step, Denver, among many others, helped restore my faith in men at a time I sorely needed it.
To them - I shall always feel gratitude b/c they helped me so so much. I stay in touch with most of them today. They are friends.
(Sorry if This next comment may end up being more of an insult to Crimson than a compliment) but the thing is,
I felt that Crimson had farther to go than the men I just mentioned,
and farther to go than most of the ones here...so that's my point.
i.e., if HE can do it...others can too.
HIS PERSONAL JOURNEY has been more impressive to me b/c it has required MORE core changes & outer changes in him, than most I've seen.
It's maybe analogous to a man from a different culture having to change that much more of himself, to get where he needs to go. At first you wonder if it's hopeless but then you see a crazy amount of hard, jarring, inner work...And Crimson's past was a bit like a different culture...
You don't have to agree, but now do you understand my perspective more?
I find it insulting to the wonderful men who are here, trying to do something that both of us would have killed to have happen...
fight to save their marriages...
That, in itself, is commendable.
You know I get that^^^ it is commendable.
I think I've been there for a few of those men. I believe I post to more men than women, but that's a guesstimate. But complimenting one does not take away from others.
And in truth, I felt the need to defend Crimson from what I saw as an insulting post to him, coming at an odd, vulnerable time.
I did not see Crimson getting coddled or having people "tip toe" around him. (Lord knows I didn't "tip toe" w/him)
I was irked that it was said to him, frankly.
Maybe if I understood it, or if I didn't attach negatives to the comment, (or play the legal advocate/rescuer??), I would have worded my answer differently.
Originally Posted By: 25
I do have a problem with inexperienced posters who are not constructive,
and or- do not base their feedback on DB principles...
and or- do not base their feedback on DB principles...
No one comes to these boards an expert in DB principals.
It is[b] through posting and receiving feedback that they learn how to apply DB concepts.[/b]
YES it is...(geez)
My point is that there are posters here (some were banned) who sometimes knowingly posted advice that directly contradicted DB principles.
Often they didn't care about that, b/c their egos were paramount... OR they did not even know the DB principles b/c they never read the books after being here for months or years (for real)
OR they wanted to defend their punitive approaches b/c their anger had become stronger than their desire to reconcile.
[color:#CC0000]
and He11 no, I wasn't some "DB expert" when I came here (and don't claim to be now) But I follow the approach as best I can and admit when I don't know the exact approach b/c of a unique situation AND admit when I am proposing alternatives to DB if it did not work...
but when I got here, I sure wanted to follow what the vets and DB coaches told me! I must have had 15-18 DB sessions with them and THEY HELPED me so much...and yes I learned a bit more in depth how to apply the approach to my situation at least.
I didn't challenge their intelligence or come up with my own "NEW WAY" or invent my own "different" approaches, deny DBing, here on a DB site,
and harp on it to people who were new and raw here, and wanted answers with certainty...and those non DB folks, seemed drawn to posting to them.
I've seen several people not just DO the opposite of DBing (haven't we all?)
but knowingly post here, the opposite of what MWD says...and promoted it as "their/better" way...or as the DB way... That is what bothers me and it is what I thought I said. I am surprised that bugged you.
When i learned this stuff (the hard way, like most of us) I processed it and took it in, and I frickin' dug deep
b/c I had gone to so many MCs (3-5 before DBing) who told h he was "acting single" =h was wrong...
and that I was "right" (which meant I was powerless to effect the outcome since I must have been doing everything right already...???
those MCs had no suggestions FOR ME for what TO DO.
but DBing showed me that I had plenty to work on in myself and that MIGHT help change the m,
or at least make me not revolve around a person i had no control over...and become the woman I am meant to be.
I did the 12 steps and that 4th step of taking a fearless moral inventory (should be called "fear filled" moral inventory b/c it was scary as hell)
& making amends (asking for forgiveness w/o expectation of reciprocity) very much helped too,
but it was among the most humbling difficult things I had to do, ever.
It takes a lot of faith and strength and courage
and if I had 4 drug problems and a drinking problem too,
then I'd say I had overcome "more" -- relative to someone with only one of those issues...
YES Cat, it's a generalized statement, but it has illustrative value.
and that's how I see Crimson (no offense Crimson-)
[/color]
Were you an expert poster on your first post? Were you an expert poster when you first posted to another?
This is insulting to the so called "inexperienced posters" that read and learn off of ALL threads, especially ones like this, IMO.
SIGH....See above^^^ b/c I am not "insulting" Them, I'm insulting the New Guru's who preach an approach that belongs on another site... if anywhere.
BTW
I don't think any of those guru people posted to Crimson, so I'm not insulting someone when I say that.
Originally Posted By: 25
So when he's ready, I am confident Crimson will make significant positive contributions.
His thread has already triggered a lot of growth for many who read it.
People witnessing Crimson's journey on these threads, (and his journey is among the bravest I've seen), have learned A LOT and that has tremendous value.
His thread has already triggered a lot of growth for many who read it.
People witnessing Crimson's journey on these threads, (and his journey is among the bravest I've seen), have learned A LOT and that has tremendous value.
Personally, when I see people really grasping and applying the advice they are receiving, I encourage them to reach out to others as I believe it helps to solidify the growth they are experiencing.
So do I. That is the value of a support group. I counsel a support group and go to one and of course it's going to teach you more than merely going one on one ( 1 on 1 has its' place though)...groups can "condense" lessons, if you KWIM.
What I have found is that posting to others is a great way to keep the lessons that we have learned and the DB principals fresh in our mind and our hearts.
Isn't that really what we are all here to do?
Yes it is. AND
I feel as if that^^^ is what I said.
Reading other's stories and journeys has great value. I learned chunks of stuff from others
and avoided a few huge mistakes b/c others had "been there, done that."
Crimson, sorry for the hijack...
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 12:37 PM
Harrier
I have posted at length on your past threads, per your request.
I have posted at length on your past threads, per your request.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 12:38 PM
geez Crimson,
sorry for the hijack which may trigger you having to get another thread...
sorry if this was painful for you as well.
Not meant to be.
((( )))
sorry for the hijack which may trigger you having to get another thread...
sorry if this was painful for you as well.
Not meant to be.
((( )))
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 02:24 PM
Meh - I don't mind. It's all for the greater good and in the spirit of freely exchanged ideas and opinions. So no harm here at all. I mean, really - most of us have much larger isht than this going on in our lives - a little back and forth on web forum is nothing.
So, I'll just move back to my thread.....
I my level of anxiety bumped up a little bit.....ok, a lot.....when w said that MC was getting to be too much for her and she hopes is tapers off soon. In the context of her mini-breakdown it almost appears as if that was at least a part of it. Makes me wonder if that is her way of telling me that she doesn't want to work on things anymore or if she would rather she and I take what we have gotten so far and try to move forward with it on our own without MC. I am almost angry at myself for investing in hope and optimism at times likes this. I guess I just don't know what she meant by "taper off". I mean hell, I would figure the legal process would be more stressful than MC.....but that's just me.
If she wants to bail out of MC without working on things I would guess that means that D is just weeks away. Granted, I know I am skipping to the worst conclusion - I have learned that being afraid is pretty d@am easy - optimism is the challenge.
Either way, I can feel myself being distracted by this and my stomach is a bit uneasy. Just feel like a shoe is about to drop.....granted, I could be wrong and simply bracing for the worst. If she decides to cancel our appointment with the doctor on Monday (fert.) I will know for sure something has gone the other way.
I have my son this weekend, so I will keep myself busy with him.
Crimson
So, I'll just move back to my thread.....
I my level of anxiety bumped up a little bit.....ok, a lot.....when w said that MC was getting to be too much for her and she hopes is tapers off soon. In the context of her mini-breakdown it almost appears as if that was at least a part of it. Makes me wonder if that is her way of telling me that she doesn't want to work on things anymore or if she would rather she and I take what we have gotten so far and try to move forward with it on our own without MC. I am almost angry at myself for investing in hope and optimism at times likes this. I guess I just don't know what she meant by "taper off". I mean hell, I would figure the legal process would be more stressful than MC.....but that's just me.
If she wants to bail out of MC without working on things I would guess that means that D is just weeks away. Granted, I know I am skipping to the worst conclusion - I have learned that being afraid is pretty d@am easy - optimism is the challenge.
Either way, I can feel myself being distracted by this and my stomach is a bit uneasy. Just feel like a shoe is about to drop.....granted, I could be wrong and simply bracing for the worst. If she decides to cancel our appointment with the doctor on Monday (fert.) I will know for sure something has gone the other way.
I have my son this weekend, so I will keep myself busy with him.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 02:44 PM
And now back to our regularly scheduled programing....
C- A few thoughts below....
Step back and and take a breath. Maybe your W just needs the same. She's still dealing with all her mixed emotions as well and that is some tough stuff, especially if she's not happy with how she's acting or responding to life. I'm guessing that conflict comes with self-disappointment and shame. That is really hard to overcome and it takes time too.
Its not the outcome you want but keep believing that no matter what happens, you will be OK.
C- A few thoughts below....
Originally Posted By: Crimson
In the context of her mini-breakdown it almost appears as if that was at least a part of it. Makes me wonder if that is her way of telling me that she doesn't want to work on things anymore or if she would rather she and I take what we have gotten so far and try to move forward with it on our own without MC.
Looks like you're mind-reading here. Either let it go or ask for clarification. Recognize what you're doing and do a 180 before your mind keeps you walking down anxiety road.
I am almost angry at myself for investing in hope and optimism at times likes this. I guess I just don't know what she meant by "taper off". I mean hell, I would figure the legal process would be more stressful than MC.....but that's just me.
This is expectations your placing on how YOU want things to go - Let it go of these expectations. Progress IS being made but its not linear it will take twists & turns.
If she wants to bail out of MC without working on things I would guess that means that D is just weeks away. Granted, I know I am skipping to the worst conclusion - I have learned that being afraid is pretty d@am easy - optimism is the challenge.
Yes it is but its a challenge worth facing...
Either way, I can feel myself being distracted by this and my stomach is a bit uneasy. Just feel like a shoe is about to drop.....granted, I could be wrong and simply bracing for the worst. If she decides to cancel our appointment with the doctor on Monday (fert.) I will know for sure something has gone the other way.
yes, something goes in the direction you don't expect. But you don't know if it will continue that way...
I have my son this weekend, so I will keep myself busy with him.
Crimson
Looks like you're mind-reading here. Either let it go or ask for clarification. Recognize what you're doing and do a 180 before your mind keeps you walking down anxiety road.
I am almost angry at myself for investing in hope and optimism at times likes this. I guess I just don't know what she meant by "taper off". I mean hell, I would figure the legal process would be more stressful than MC.....but that's just me.
This is expectations your placing on how YOU want things to go - Let it go of these expectations. Progress IS being made but its not linear it will take twists & turns.
If she wants to bail out of MC without working on things I would guess that means that D is just weeks away. Granted, I know I am skipping to the worst conclusion - I have learned that being afraid is pretty d@am easy - optimism is the challenge.
Yes it is but its a challenge worth facing...
Either way, I can feel myself being distracted by this and my stomach is a bit uneasy. Just feel like a shoe is about to drop.....granted, I could be wrong and simply bracing for the worst. If she decides to cancel our appointment with the doctor on Monday (fert.) I will know for sure something has gone the other way.
yes, something goes in the direction you don't expect. But you don't know if it will continue that way...
I have my son this weekend, so I will keep myself busy with him.
Crimson
Step back and and take a breath. Maybe your W just needs the same. She's still dealing with all her mixed emotions as well and that is some tough stuff, especially if she's not happy with how she's acting or responding to life. I'm guessing that conflict comes with self-disappointment and shame. That is really hard to overcome and it takes time too.
Its not the outcome you want but keep believing that no matter what happens, you will be OK.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 02:45 PM
Did she say she hoped the stress tapered off or the MC tapered off?
In my experience, when I got to the tough stuff with my IC I was overwhelmed after an appt. I would go home and go to bed for a couple of hours. I think that's why many people stop going or never even seek it.
About your mind reading and feelings of unease, you have no control over what she does and you can choose to feel good about where you are or feel bad about it.
You have that power.
In my experience, when I got to the tough stuff with my IC I was overwhelmed after an appt. I would go home and go to bed for a couple of hours. I think that's why many people stop going or never even seek it.
About your mind reading and feelings of unease, you have no control over what she does and you can choose to feel good about where you are or feel bad about it.
You have that power.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 02:53 PM
just for emphasis:
If you reconcile, you can't keep doing doing this in your M. It's nice to be in tune with your spouses needs, but for every emotion or thought have such a profound effect on your anxiety level is going to cause so much stress on the both of you.
If you reconcile, you can't keep doing doing this in your M. It's nice to be in tune with your spouses needs, but for every emotion or thought have such a profound effect on your anxiety level is going to cause so much stress on the both of you.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 03:05 PM
Hey Crimson ^^^ what the bug said. I am a firm beleiver in the short, succint post.
Dude, I wish I could be where you are now. I'm not trying to downplay the sh!t storm you are going through. Crimson, I watch your thread and I notice you have a HUGE problem relaxing and detaching. Sure its different when kids are involved, but you have gotta start loving yourself and stop the mind reading. You have done great. Get back to the bad-a$$ Crimson of last month.
Dude, I wish I could be where you are now. I'm not trying to downplay the sh!t storm you are going through. Crimson, I watch your thread and I notice you have a HUGE problem relaxing and detaching. Sure its different when kids are involved, but you have gotta start loving yourself and stop the mind reading. You have done great. Get back to the bad-a$$ Crimson of last month.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 03:16 PM
I don't want to spend a lot of time on what has been said or not been said....
I know who I am and what I stand for. Although you did come across a little abrasive 25, I'm sure any of us here can either buy into things, or rebuke those things. I know that in going through MY journey, I was the bravest one there. The bottom line is that everyone who signs up to save their marriage and post here, should be their own hero.
Most heroes don't have a varying degree. Was Superman greater than Spiderman ? Pffftt...does it matter ??? (although I'm sure I will get a response on that one)
I'm not going to speak for Rick, nor will I defend him. What I will say is that I see his point, and although it might have not been clear, it was his, and I see and respect it.
Crim.....so are so jammed up her asss right now that you can't see the forest for the trees. You are so caught up in what she says , thinks, feels, tastes, smells, the color she paints her nails, that you have lost your personality in this, or at least you do not show it here.
Your character ? No question about that one....you are up there on that list...
And I think what Rick was saying is, that if you get outside of your own head, and post around a bit, that it might loosen you up a bit, and allow you to stop thinking about all of the baggage that handcuffs you daily.
You have got to stop getting in her head so much, and stop wondering what if all of the time.
Gabby is constantly telling you this, you say "I know" and then come back with the same crap over and over again...
Look man...
Her decision was to be done with the marriage....
UNTIL SHE CHANGES HER MIND, her decision will be to be done with the marriage....
You have made her rethink that decision, and she is struggling HARD with rethinking it...
Anal-izing every little things she does, is not gonna make her change that decision until SHE decides to....
Just for grins...
Tell me one of your BEST college stories.... ????
I know who I am and what I stand for. Although you did come across a little abrasive 25, I'm sure any of us here can either buy into things, or rebuke those things. I know that in going through MY journey, I was the bravest one there. The bottom line is that everyone who signs up to save their marriage and post here, should be their own hero.
Most heroes don't have a varying degree. Was Superman greater than Spiderman ? Pffftt...does it matter ??? (although I'm sure I will get a response on that one)
I'm not going to speak for Rick, nor will I defend him. What I will say is that I see his point, and although it might have not been clear, it was his, and I see and respect it.
Crim.....so are so jammed up her asss right now that you can't see the forest for the trees. You are so caught up in what she says , thinks, feels, tastes, smells, the color she paints her nails, that you have lost your personality in this, or at least you do not show it here.
Your character ? No question about that one....you are up there on that list...
And I think what Rick was saying is, that if you get outside of your own head, and post around a bit, that it might loosen you up a bit, and allow you to stop thinking about all of the baggage that handcuffs you daily.
You have got to stop getting in her head so much, and stop wondering what if all of the time.
Gabby is constantly telling you this, you say "I know" and then come back with the same crap over and over again...
Look man...
Her decision was to be done with the marriage....
UNTIL SHE CHANGES HER MIND, her decision will be to be done with the marriage....
You have made her rethink that decision, and she is struggling HARD with rethinking it...
Anal-izing every little things she does, is not gonna make her change that decision until SHE decides to....
Just for grins...
Tell me one of your BEST college stories.... ????
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 03:49 PM
Originally Posted By: Mach1
Her decision was to be done with the marriage....
UNTIL SHE CHANGES HER MIND, her decision will be to be done with the marriage....
You have made her rethink that decision, and she is struggling HARD with rethinking it...
Anal-izing every little things she does, is not gonna make her change that decision until SHE decides to....
UNTIL SHE CHANGES HER MIND, her decision will be to be done with the marriage....
You have made her rethink that decision, and she is struggling HARD with rethinking it...
Anal-izing every little things she does, is not gonna make her change that decision until SHE decides to....
From my perspective, this was one of the most difficult lessons to learn and I am still learning it. But, I think it will give you a measure of peace, Crimson. It will help you to compartmentalize so that every little thing does not wreck havoc on your emotions.
When I first started this, I was looking everywhere for clues that H had changed his mind and did not want to S. If we had a good weekend together, I was thinking, "great, now he won't move out!" Then I would be absolutely devastated when it turned out that nothing had really changed.
Now I try to look at a positive (or negative) event as just that -- something good (or bad) happened, but if H has not said that he has changed his mind, he has not changed his mind. Be happy for the positive and move on. Force yourself not to interprest your W's words and actions too much. Take them at face value. I just posted on my thread that H said our last therapy session was "fun." Before I would have interpreted this as H wanting to come back. Now I interpret it as H was comfortable and enjoyed the therapy session. Period. One positive step in a long process. Good luck!
Mimi
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 03:56 PM
Couple of things that make sense....well, most of them do - but just to highlight. "Progress is being made, but it is not linear". That is a good way to look at it. Perhaps some rational sequence of events was what I was looking for in all of this....a, then b, then c, then we're back on track. Clearly nothing in this arena resolves that way, so it a crappy expectation on my end.
Get back to being the "kick-a$$ Crimson from last month". I think what happened was me trying to come out of LRT a bit a bridge back to my w. It makes you...well....vulnerable and subject to rejection - but it is central to the R process I think. Add to that the fact that I became hopefull, optimistic - felt GOOD about the chances of things working out - I guess I fell out of DB mode. I think I FULLY understood LRT and going dim....got kinda good at it. I guess what I don't know is how to gradually reincorporate her into my life in a way that shows growth, but still stay true to DB. Somewhere in all of that mess I kind of lost track of myself from the previous months. I started to enjoy seeing her, spending time with her and my s together....believing that maybe we could get back to that (and maybe we still can - who knows). That wave of good feelings and hope probably took my eye off the ball and got me thinking more about "OK, what am I going to do when this works out" as opposed to "how will I cope if it doesn't".
ALL of this is intensified by the fact that, frankly, the clock is ticking and I don't have much time left. First week of May and it is D-O-N-E done. I don't want that. I terrified of being a part-time dad to my son, I going to get wrecked financially, I might be forced by the court to sell my house. Everything that I have worked so hard to establish in my life seems to be on the edge of evaporating right in front of me and I want none of it....and can still see hope in it NOT happening.
GM is always right....as is everyone else on me needing to hit the eject button from my w's head. Just seems harder to do now that I am approaching the zero-hour.
Give me some time to reflect on a good college story.....they do exist.
Crimson
Get back to being the "kick-a$$ Crimson from last month". I think what happened was me trying to come out of LRT a bit a bridge back to my w. It makes you...well....vulnerable and subject to rejection - but it is central to the R process I think. Add to that the fact that I became hopefull, optimistic - felt GOOD about the chances of things working out - I guess I fell out of DB mode. I think I FULLY understood LRT and going dim....got kinda good at it. I guess what I don't know is how to gradually reincorporate her into my life in a way that shows growth, but still stay true to DB. Somewhere in all of that mess I kind of lost track of myself from the previous months. I started to enjoy seeing her, spending time with her and my s together....believing that maybe we could get back to that (and maybe we still can - who knows). That wave of good feelings and hope probably took my eye off the ball and got me thinking more about "OK, what am I going to do when this works out" as opposed to "how will I cope if it doesn't".
ALL of this is intensified by the fact that, frankly, the clock is ticking and I don't have much time left. First week of May and it is D-O-N-E done. I don't want that. I terrified of being a part-time dad to my son, I going to get wrecked financially, I might be forced by the court to sell my house. Everything that I have worked so hard to establish in my life seems to be on the edge of evaporating right in front of me and I want none of it....and can still see hope in it NOT happening.
GM is always right....as is everyone else on me needing to hit the eject button from my w's head. Just seems harder to do now that I am approaching the zero-hour.
Give me some time to reflect on a good college story.....they do exist.
Crimson
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 03:57 PM
Believe it or not, I DO have band camp stories......yep. I was one of THOSE kids.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 04:01 PM
Somehow I am not suprised.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 04:05 PM
^^^Haaaa!^^^^^^^
If it's any consolation I was in marching band at IU for about four days before I hung my sousaphone up for good. Never made it through band camp. Once you get to the collegiate level, those kids are WEIRD.
If it's any consolation I was in marching band at IU for about four days before I hung my sousaphone up for good. Never made it through band camp. Once you get to the collegiate level, those kids are WEIRD.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 04:06 PM
Quote:
vulnerable and subject to rejection
Quote:
ALL of this is intensified by the fact that, frankly, the clock is ticking and I don't have much time left.
Everyone here lives with that same issue, everyday. And in a larger sense everyone on earth does. I could stand up to get another cup of coffee and drop dead (happened to someone I know last week). Do I want to sit her and worry about it until it does happen.
Nah!
Throw caution to the wind and be vulnerable, if you aren't, you aren't really living.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 04:19 PM
Crim....
So what happens if that does happen, and you go through the legal stuff....???
And that is when she changes her mind, after all of that....???
Does the sound of a Gavel make you not love her anymore ???
Life is about perspective, and how you deal with what it has thrown at you....
You can't live in fear of what is yet to come, or you will drive yourself insane....oh wait...^^^^^
You can only do the best you can, each day.
Sometimes things have to end, so that they can begin again...
I am not saying that this is a done deal, I'm just telling you that you should not try to predict future negativity.
I would be very interested in a story...
This one time, at Band camp....
Okay, maybe not one of those from you...or the Monkey...
Gabby, I hear ya , and I don't say a lot here because I know you got it covered...
So what happens if that does happen, and you go through the legal stuff....???
And that is when she changes her mind, after all of that....???
Does the sound of a Gavel make you not love her anymore ???
Life is about perspective, and how you deal with what it has thrown at you....
You can't live in fear of what is yet to come, or you will drive yourself insane....oh wait...^^^^^
You can only do the best you can, each day.
Sometimes things have to end, so that they can begin again...
I am not saying that this is a done deal, I'm just telling you that you should not try to predict future negativity.
I would be very interested in a story...
This one time, at Band camp....
Okay, maybe not one of those from you...or the Monkey...
Gabby, I hear ya , and I don't say a lot here because I know you got it covered...
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 04:28 PM
Originally Posted By: labug
Quote:
vulnerable and subject to rejection
Quote:
ALL of this is intensified by the fact that, frankly, the clock is ticking and I don't have much time left.
Everyone here lives with that same issue, everyday. And in a larger sense everyone on earth does. I could stand up to get another cup of coffee and drop dead (happened to someone I know last week). Do I want to sit her and worry about it until it does happen.
Nah!
Throw caution to the wind and be vulnerable, if you aren't, you aren't really living.
C - labug makes some good points.
Thanks labug...I needed to hear this after the morning I've had.
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/08/12 10:54 PM
Originally Posted By: Mach1
Crim....
So what happens if that does happen, and you go through the legal stuff....???
And that is when she changes her mind, after all of that....???
Does the sound of a Gavel make you not love her anymore ???
Life is about perspective, and how you deal with what it has thrown at you....
You can't live in fear of what is yet to come, or you will drive yourself insane....oh wait...^^^^^
You can only do the best you can, each day.
Sometimes things have to end, so that they can begin again...
I am not saying that this is a done deal, I'm just telling you that you should not try to predict future negativity.
I would be very interested in a story...
This one time, at Band camp....
Okay, maybe not one of those from you...or the Monkey...
Gabby, I hear ya , and I don't say a lot here because I know you got it covered...
So what happens if that does happen, and you go through the legal stuff....???
And that is when she changes her mind, after all of that....???
Does the sound of a Gavel make you not love her anymore ???
Life is about perspective, and how you deal with what it has thrown at you....
You can't live in fear of what is yet to come, or you will drive yourself insane....oh wait...^^^^^
You can only do the best you can, each day.
Sometimes things have to end, so that they can begin again...
I am not saying that this is a done deal, I'm just telling you that you should not try to predict future negativity.
I would be very interested in a story...
This one time, at Band camp....
Okay, maybe not one of those from you...or the Monkey...
Gabby, I hear ya , and I don't say a lot here because I know you got it covered...
what they all said^^^^.... except anything negative about me...
question #1--why does the legal date seem so "done" and final to you?
Aside from those dates changing a lot, it is still only a piece of paper.
Maybe it could be viewed not as the death of your relationship BUT as a symbol of the old marriage dying
and your courtship can continue to a new, better marriage. Just a thought...and as you may know, I do have 2 family members who divorced and later remarried. It happens. (Yes it was better the 2nd time around, no I don't think they planned on reconciling when they divorced, and years had passed before they reconciled, and all parties had changed/improved a lot.)
question #2- why'd you say "Optimism is the challenge"? I know YOU have trouble with it b/c you are negatively programmed with your marital perspective, partly b/c of the responsibility you feel for getting here. And partly b/c...I don't know...a trait of yours in other areas?? Somehow I doubt it.
But how does it RISK MORE, to be happy or positive? It is a myth that people seem to believe that if they think negatively, they are somehow protected more or they are "just being realistic" but in my view they are just being negative. and spending years of their lives feeling less than happy...
Sometimes that negative attitude brings about the very result they dread.
Other times a good thing happens and they've wasted pieces of their precious lives being worried or depressed...for nothing. Geez, Life is short.
Being optimistic ought to be a goal of yours b/c
question #3 is
what are you bringing to the table if all you are now is a man revolving around what his wife does/says/thinks/MIGHT do/say or think?
And your mind reading, lately, is really peaking. As Gabbysmom said you can't say "I know" and then go do it again. Get that stuff under control...really.
It's smothering, it's counter productive at best, and you have to stop it.
So my final question echoes theirs...
question #4
what was the most embarrassing thing that ever happened to or with you, (that you can admit)?
OR
can you list 2 goals of yours, that have nothing to do with your wife or son?
Try...you'll be a lot more interesting...(and God knows that's OUR goal here...entertain us, bro)
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/09/12 04:42 AM
Crim buddy....one of my goals is to hear you laugh your ass of at something completely wildly un-PC, and share some story of recent lunacy with friends. I have been talking to you for months about finding joy, living thru the heart, letting go with faith. Like attracts like, joy finds joy.
We all got our asses kicked. Seeing how people care here....people you never met. How can you not see the incredible world we live in? Love is truly everywhere, and so is laughter.
Crimbo...my W started MC and she had suggested it first and when the tough questions got asked...she quit and ran. You cant assign your reasoning to her sitch....you will drive yourself batty. BTW my W quit MC months ago yet she is still living with me..you cant know their mind
Look, most people her would kill to have your opportunity....everyone is rooting for you.
What are you doing this weekend? I demand you do something fun...hopefully something to impress me with your wildness. I might have to bring to my son's parties....we can relieve our college days!
We all got our asses kicked. Seeing how people care here....people you never met. How can you not see the incredible world we live in? Love is truly everywhere, and so is laughter.
Crimbo...my W started MC and she had suggested it first and when the tough questions got asked...she quit and ran. You cant assign your reasoning to her sitch....you will drive yourself batty. BTW my W quit MC months ago yet she is still living with me..you cant know their mind
Look, most people her would kill to have your opportunity....everyone is rooting for you.
What are you doing this weekend? I demand you do something fun...hopefully something to impress me with your wildness. I might have to bring to my son's parties....we can relieve our college days!
Re: Never thought I'd be here..........part 11 - 03/09/12 01:10 PM
Thanks, rick -
You and others have been loudly beating the "calm the hell down" drum on my behalf and I appreciate it. When my mind is not on my w or sitch, I am actually pretty easy going with a good sense of humor. In fact, countless people at work have noticed that I am back to being "me" again after a long period of zombie-life. I guess I don't want everyone to picture that I am Eyore or something. I get bummed, freaked out - sad, but I eventually snap back. Luckily at a rate much faster than I was experiencing a few months ago.
No clue on the weekend. I have my son - so I was thinking about taking in a spring training game - would be a first for him. Not sure if he would last the whole time, but as long as dad has time for a beer in the sun - I will be just fine.
Crimson
You and others have been loudly beating the "calm the hell down" drum on my behalf and I appreciate it. When my mind is not on my w or sitch, I am actually pretty easy going with a good sense of humor. In fact, countless people at work have noticed that I am back to being "me" again after a long period of zombie-life. I guess I don't want everyone to picture that I am Eyore or something. I get bummed, freaked out - sad, but I eventually snap back. Luckily at a rate much faster than I was experiencing a few months ago.
No clue on the weekend. I have my son - so I was thinking about taking in a spring training game - would be a first for him. Not sure if he would last the whole time, but as long as dad has time for a beer in the sun - I will be just fine.
Crimson