Divorcebusting.com
My first thread was too convoluted, and negative. However, I will keep it as a journal as I tend to write in too much detail.

Seriously, my case is at the 11th hour - I think (been here before). This new year begins the fourth year of separation/devorce proceedings. I fully comprehend DB/DR now, and like many, made early mistakes. Over the past six months, thru a period of going completely dark (which included staying out of town), I was able to gain footing in the area of detachment.

While out of town, my GAL was to renovate the rental house at my own expense - which is just about complete. Prior to my efforts, we had been noticed that our tenants were arrested and drugs were found in the home. The commander said our could be seized. With the poor condition or the rental, and fallen trees, I knew we had a big problem over there - that embarrassed the neighbors in this upstanding community.

I'm really proud that I brought the house back! I never thought of it as a GAL until now! I made many friends and connected with old friends in the area, as I used to live there myself.

It was seven years since I had seen the house, and I can say that my renovation easily saved the house from being condemned.

Well, I need to start actively marketing the rental now. That is the next GAL.

Back to the Marital Issue:

A point came where we did recive another offer from his attorney. This time we considered the offer because there was "some" realistic movement. Two "Do Something Different" things occurred:

1. They received the First Offer from us since the failed mediation over 3 years ago.
2. This was really an unmistakable signal that I accept the divorce (which I do).

They took 49 days to chew on our offer before counter-offering (we did not put a dead-line on as they do - usually 7-10 days). That was a very good offer that he should have taken.


Again they came with another offer, that also contained a threat that they would put the case on the trial calander. We bent overt backwards, as far as is possible (for me to support myself) with another counter, they came back again - and the offer is unfair, and not possible, and they gave us the threat of trial again. That brings us to present day, their deadline being the end of February.

Early on, just prior or at the beginning of these negotiations, I came out of the dark H will not take my calls, so, I left a friendly VM. Over the weeks, I have just left business matters on his VM. One time I had a gut feeling something was wrong because of all the calls from the mortgage company, and just some instinct. I VM my gut feels and concern.

Now, something is strange going on. Bills are late. Twice my check payments are late, and that has had a serious effect on my finances (with my expenses on rental). The check to the mortgage was short $25.53. They cal time after time. Both my phones, his cell, and his work. There was a $100 late added because of this shortage. I left VM's as usual around the 16th when calls started coming in. It appeared to me he was ignoring everything and I handed to the attorney.

When I learned we weregoing to get a ding on credit report, again, I tried to get in touch with him last week, and his mailbox is full. I called his work, he was not there - which is very strange for a Saturday. Monday came, more calls from mortgage company, they tell me it is my last chance to avoid a ding on credit - so I paid it. I called him again on cell - mailbox still full. Other business yesterday, mailbox still full.

I even posted a prayer - because I sense something is wrong. He would never let that mailbox get fill - no way.

So thank for reading current situation. If you have any other idea for me other than:

1. act "as if" I accept the divorce

2. Give him a fair chance to take care of his responsibility, then enforce boundaries, no threat, no discussion, he simply is noticed by his council instead.

3. Only call for business matters. (No more "instinct" BS backslides.)

Actually, I have no other choice but to participate in reasonable settlement talks to that we remain cooperative in the eyes of the judge (who reads these settlement documents to determine who pays legal fees after the case is over).


Areas Where I NeedTo Improve:

1. I got to get a grip on my stress and absentmindedness. I have been making mistakes.

2. I must meet another goal on my list.

3. I must plan to get out of doors - this is a big one.

Please help me with DB advice in the 11th hour. Yas
I am brainstorming ideas. Hand in there!!
Hang in there
The thing I didn't mention. I have had the gift of time, as we say in DB. Over three years of time, time, plenty.

Now, it feels like all I ever do is WAIT for the other shoe to drop. For instance, right now, at any moment, I could receive a notice that I will be on the trial calandar - which mortifies me.

Now, it could come on e-mail, or it could come to my door registered mail, or it could be hand delivered. It could arrive today, tomorrow, next month, next year, or not at all. Will he carry out the threat? My attorney says it is only a threat until he pays for his share of the trial upfront - which is pricey in our case. If that so happens, he will have to put up mine as well - as it is available to him in OUR business. A trial is at least 15k each. Will he do this rather than giving us our less than fair settlement proposal?

This is why my stress and anxiety has virtual doubled, as well, my doctor has really increased my dosage, and wants to see me twice as often.

I feel so paralyzed. But I have no control over what others do. It is as simple as that. I await your brainstorm lovely Broklynnmom!
Legal issues aside, when was the last time you actually talked or interacted with your H?
June 11

I called him in the summer about advancing my monthly check to me to fix the rental last June. When he was nonresponsive, I left a nasty VM that we were walking off the job. Money was in bank the next morning.

Mid-July

He called me once or twice about me paying some bills for him while he went to Greece. That was a strange series of calls. Each call he really emphasized the date he was leaving for the two week trip.

I told him, that's great! You have time to get this "such and such" paperwork to me from the "XYZ" company! He said no, and quickly changed the day he was leaving. Then I said, well then, you have time to get me at least the "lp's" for the insurance claim, I can get a lot of money for the damages to those." (we had a flood, and many of the LP's got wet, but he still wanted them, and subsequently requested the turntables). Well, after I asked him to drop off the LP's so I could include them in the claim, he said he threw them out. I' sure I made it clear that I could get up to $5000 go those LP's.

So the jist of those convo's was him wanting me to know he was leaving on a particular day - then when cross-examined with a request, turns out he was leaving actually a day earlier.

I called him after he got back from trip, and he said he could only be friends with me. I decided to let go, and go totally, completely dark, and detach.

This is when surveillance got hot and heavy on my trail. I even injured myself severly going after one. I was so angry - I left him an angry VM to stop the surveilance, the neighbors had seen it, and I had been to police. Once I healed, I left town, and stayed the rest of the summer, fall, and winter at the rental supervising the work.

There was a bit of surveillance and hijinncts at the rental, mostly I ignored it. Only made police report when they came on property and messed around.

I recall a last phone call we had have made perhaps before the injuries. Almost has to be. That call would be sometime between August 1 and August 10. It is a call I was very hurt by. I told him how I missed being with him in an intimate way and it had been so very very very long. That I really don't even know how to date or anything. Perhaps I was being somewhat manipulative in all likelihood. His response to me was "just go out and find somebody.". Those were the last words we shared. Thank you for reading. Yas
Let me simply answer your question, Mr. Bond. A phone call between Aug 1-10, 2011.
And do you remember the topic of that conversation?

If you want to save your M, maybe you need to actually initiate a little 'hello' conversation with your H. Right now with all the legal counsel going on, you're seeing each other as enemies as opposed to two people who are actually in a relationship.

For what it's worth, I think you've given your H too many chances in the past. Especially based on the things he did to you.
I read you loud and clear. I enforced no boundaries and he did anything he pleased with no problem. I too, had my time to myself to pursue my creative projects, although, I never stopped letting him know that I missed him. I did, however, cease physically reaching out for him (not just sex) after years of rejection.

But he doesn't answer phone. What do you recommend I leave in a VM (if box is not full), or in a written note by mail?

What would a "hello" entail?
Currently what is his circumstance? Is he living with another woman? How far away does he live from you?
He live's in the Atlanta suburban home we lived in before we bought this more expensive Atlanta suburban home near the business in '07. The homes are about 9-10 miles apart. I am three miles from the business location.

He has and continues to deny, deny, deny there is another woman. Always has. Early on in the separation I cross-examined him with dis-information. I claimed I was aware of the woman for some time. He then said, "it was my fault for not telling him to stop seeing her." He quickly backtracked to the standard partyline "you got no proof."

Also, Mr. Bond,

I just left a voice mail for husband. General busiiness taken care of. I expressed my concerns, as he is always on top of these matters. Wanted to check in and make sure he is ok, just to say hello, no pressure, call me back if you wish, I am here.

I hope this was a good VM.

Yas

About a year into the separation there is no doubt in my mind that I saw them together, quite close up - in full view, with my glasses on. And they surely recognized me and my car. Both of us had our convertable tops down.

When brought to his attention, he told me "[I] did not see what [I] saw."gaslighting at it's finest - but wasn't working that time).

I previously had made several similar citings, but couldn't swear to it. But this one, I would trade my dominant arm for - no problem.

There is a girl. She is younger.

I cannot swear to this one. But one citing looked like this girl in the convertible holding up an infant (or a plastic doll). Both our cars are BMW Z3's. Remember, I can't swear to this one. There could be some mental block for that.

Maybe I will get up enough energy to write about the suspicious "trickle truth." it came just before the fatal trip to Greece in September 08.
Have you brought up any of those things with your L? Just want to be sure you're taken care of and that he's not giving everything to the OW.
My L, she is best in Atlanta. His L, he is also has best in Atlanta. My L knows every single thing. Enormous efforts have been taken to keep watch on what is possible to keep watch on. We have an outstanding business valuator, respected by this Court system.

There is nothing else that can BR done other than extreme foensic examinations, that might extend overseas that may or may not (likely the later) be fruitful). That is just the reality of th restaurant business. For all I know, he could have had a secret life or a duplicate life for the entire marriage.

I certainly am aware he is a chronic pathological liar, know it, accept it, know how to read it, and knew how to handle it to a point back then. Much more strategic, watch-dog measures would definitely have to be in place, covertly, in the future, for his own good.

as new business owners, I just missed my chance to go over the tax records as the divorce proceedings began. But, if this divorce had not began due to the abandonment in '08, I garaientee you, a divorce proceeding wound have gotten under way the minuite I demanded to look at the books with the "new" accountant."

So, it was gonna happen one way or another. No one passes any paper past me. And I was already sensing that the women have to keep their noses out of the busniss matters.

Now, when it comes to trying to buy the business, the paperwork, the assets, yeah, all that jazz....I had to handle that over a two year period. It was like a second dissertation in the most God awful topic imaginable - such as a Case Study of the Longitudinal Effects of Eskimo Spitz Manure on the Elastisity of Southern White Cornshucks. (Bite me. Advisor already has complaints about your study title, and she's not even in Ag. Ed., go back to the drawing board). You get me?
Today, an event occurred I have not seen in a while. Husband contacted his American Express to change email from mine to an email called "mythos kalos" which appears to mean "beautiful story" or "buautiful talk" in his language.

At the separation he took me off the business accounts, and these emails really reveal nothing but his reaped calls to get a new card or number - or that he is late in paying. Many times I have tried to forward them back to AmEx, with no luck.

I just think it I'd interesting it happened about noon today. And yesterday evening, I made my "Hello" call. Actually, putting 2+2 together really hurts.

I investigated the email address and it doesn't exist. This brings up another concern.

My husband is. Not computer literatate, and as far as I know. Has never known how to operate an email. Further, he doesn't, or hasn't actually known what it was up until the time I had contact with him.

I am right back to a point of anxiety. What does this mean? Why does he come up with Mythoskalos as an email address? What the heck is so happy about the story these days? That is what inquiring minds would like to know.

Well, I avoided sending a smart-assed email to the address, despite my search turned up no such address (you really don't know until you try).

I fully expect to recieve something terrible in the near future from his attorney. What else can I do? Mr. Bond? Any other ideas?

In Bob Grants book, as the last resort - and he means last, he recommends arranging one last meeting and soon into the meeting, make the following statement, get up, and walk out:

"If you are not careful, you will lose me forever."

Grant says even if it's a meal, have the meal, be polite, make the statement and walk out. That is the end. It is an ultimatum.

If I have to go thru a trial, after what I have been thru with the legal system already, (and he knows very well how it impacted me), I really think I would be completely finished with him.

It is a boundary for me. Just like the late mortgage, and continued nonresponiveness regarding my badly needed support check. Once it came to the clear conclusion that the credit reports would be dinged in a domino effect, that crossed a boundary with me, and I handed to the attorney.

I assume that pissed him off. And I have really sweated bullets in the past. But it was too damn tight this time for games.

I am really taking Mr. Bond's suggestion to put ALL matters pertaining to money into the attorneys hands - so he will not associate me will money. I think that was a brilliant suggestion. I am currently putting together apx. $2-3000 worth of Court ordered items he owes me for. I had planned to ask for them a little at a time. I will just give the whole banana to L. Thank you Mr. Bond.

Guys, what does it all mean? I'm spinning. I can control urges, but I am spinning. Please, help!!
It means your H is a self-absorbed d-bag.

Sorry you have to go through all of this. Right now you really have to let him go in your heart and mind. Start looking at your happiness and find the love that deserves to have you.

If he comes back it will be on your terms. Not his.

Get your spirit and strength back. You matter. You live and breathe. You are the beautiful spirit and not something to be discarded. You need to be celebrated.

See it as freedom from someone who has imprisoned you for far too long.
I screwed up. I left probably 5 VM voicing my first concern, then frustration, then paranoia, and then anger that I receive NO RESPONSE regarding misteriou email change with American Express. Point being, email address account has been changed to does not exist.

I summarized in a final VM that I felt he was playing games with this, and sitting there with his friends just laughing at my concerns, and repeated VM.

I told him my boundary is the divorce. I am tired of games, and I will no longer phone him on matters of concern - as he doesn't have the decency to take my call, or refer my call to another person. I gave him tonight to correct this, or I will simply go dark and block his phone.

Well, 2x4s come forth. I lost it. I am so vigilwnt about the computer, and hacking. I provided the phone number if he did not authorize this, and that's all I can do.

I know he just pushed feline on my first call. He listened to the VM's that followed each time. Just refuses to take calls.

I have one last idea, I used 27 years ago, and he came to me and proposed marriage.

I sent him a photo of me next to my little car, with a little statement to the effect of "I had really enjoyed my time with him.". Period. By then I had two other boyfriends. It was less than 30 days, he called and proposed marriage.

It is not that I do not have similar opportunities. I am just totally uninterested, due to the amount of medications I take. Also, it is not the time to engage in such activity, as my judgment is impaired by the medications.

I feel like I need to make one he'll of a splash though. Please, please please. Ideas? I know I messed up. I can still leave town. And I can still block my phone. This is the best way to get back on the "detachment horse.". That, I know I can do! Yas
Yass take a walk breath I hear u about the spinning. They call that fear
Ok, back to the dark. Making plans asap to get out of town. I reached with the "hello," and got crazy-making button picking that worked.

Too agoraphobic for the walk. But not for the plan.

Back to detachment, hand the email issue over to attorney in the morning when I'm calm. All things go thru attorney from here on out, period. New boundary due to disrespect on aforementioned matter.

No hopes or expectations. I will hang with my GAL new friends, and stop obsessing about this matter. If he wants a trial, and a divorce, after my contributions to this long marriage, then he has chosen to cross another boundary.

I'm sorry, but these are my boundaries. After a divorce, "to have me, you got to buy me," as Bob Grant's book says. And I don't come cheap. My "value" is very high. Now, that is that. The parental blocks will go onto my cell phone asap (they are for my protection).

Done and done. And no more "dove angel" prayers for the sadistic dirt-bag
either. Thank you guys. Yas
I don't think you understand that your "boundary" isn't D. It is the action that has been reached as a result of him crossing your boundaries.

PLEASE no grand last minute gestures like you described. He doesn't care right now and after that rant you left, he's probably thinking "good riddance!"

Also, I don't know if you responded to my other message asking about your meds. When did you start taking them? They really seem to be taking their toll on you.
Never mind, I found your response about the meds.

IMHO your doctors are right. It seems that your condition (anxiety, stress, paranoia) is a result of outside stimuli and not anything biological.

Your posts are very erratic and so I'm really concerned about that. I know it's difficult to wean yourself off of the meds, but I firmly believe that unless you get a handle on how to deal with stress in general, you will be dependent on meds for the rest of your life.

You should and CAN live without that. Maybe you need to just totally change your life and do something that doesn't require so much stress. Living simpler doesn't mean you're sacrificing anything. A quiet lifestyle may suit you well after all this.
Mr. Bond,

I am fortunent to have full disability from private insurance company and SS. I truly see a clear pattern of increased anxiety and bipolar syptoms when husband pulls antic like paying fast and loose by not paying bills on time, or screwing around with the mortgage, or the timing of my support check.

The extreme symptoms of paranoia over the past three years, with a combination of therapy and anti-psychotics, we finially have under control. So much so, that I know when "reality" or more specially, a "mind game" such as the surveillence begins - and I simply ignore it, or if possible phone the police and forget about. I have control, finially, to not let that crap scare me any longer. Furthermore, the neighbors here have now witnessed servellence if this home. And, I have photo documentation.

The worst part of that phase of paranoia was that I could tell people were not believing me. Even my therapist at the time (changed theripist). My phychiastrist has believed me all along, and explained paranoia always starts with something in reality - you must develop the skill not to let it spin out of control. Therefore, for now, I do not have to take the anti-phscotic.

My life is very simple, although, the medications do indeed make simple tasks very difficult. Due to the addition stress, anxiety, and insomnia (over the possbility of a trial, or losing my home) caused Psychiatrist to increase doses of mood stabilizers to control bi-polar 2 is nothing less than a zombee drug. It is paralyzing, but a bettermood stablizer than the other options, believe me. With beniodizapines at night, it works on insomnia pretty well.

Not sure how increased AD really effect me. I am sleeper. When sleep gets regular again, I can try my ADHD med in daytime. I'm anxious to try the new on as Redilin just knocked me out.

Doc believes once this is behind me my syptoms will descrease. I just can let him push my buttons. Changing that AmEx to a fake email was so stupid, and may have unknown consequences, I know why he did it. He doesn't trust me and also, he doesn't trust the computer systems. But making up an address is dumb. That's why I got flustered at first - "MaMa steppin in to fix things!". But soon, I will have to accept that our bunnies will no longer be any of my business, once he buys me out. And that is that. Indeed the judge will likely profer a much better buy out price then we have lower ourselves to.

it is so painful, that I am no longer needed in the business. It took a life time savings to get it. And I will get a buy-out less what's owed, and he will proper with the future of the business.

I suppose these are matters I will struggle with for some time. Thank for your suggestions Mr. Bond. There is nothing more I would like to do than to move back to where I came from - the great city of Chicago. Yas
Yas, Bond...

I would Not say that all patients MUST learn to live without their meds. Even if "external" factors are playing a role, or "triggering" things, that does NOT mean there are no biochemical underlying issues...her doctor said, I think, that she is predisposed to this.

Seems Her h mistreated her, but that is not the "cause" of her illness, it's an aggravating factor. Same for her job...if stress "caused" mental illness we'd all be in a padded cell.

Life throws us all a curve ball now & then, like a parent's death, or divorce, and if one already had a chemical imbalance, they may well need meds a long time.

My main point here is, In alignment with DB 101 of "doing what works and Not doing what does not work", I say if meds help you, use them.

Yas You are sort of all over the place on this site. Seems you swing from one end of the spectrum to the other. Settle down and listen to the therapist and physicians you have. Are you a patient who does as the doctor plans?

You asked us what "TO DO". We cannot tell you to divorce him OR "stay married at all costs".

But I do suggest you Stop waiting for this man OR expecting anything from him in the future.

ATM I think you will read that and nod in agreement. But I fear your next post will talk about how he'll have to "buy you back" and that you are "not cheap"...what's that about?

Are you really planning your life around the possible reunion, post divorce? Didn't you just say that would be too late for you?

Anyhow...for us to support YOU, we need to know more about you and less about him and less about what happened 4 years ago or 6 years ago. This is about now and "from this day forward", and what you want/need in your life to be happy.

You must lose the scorecard, and that's not just a suggestion for salvaging some type of relationship with your h.

It's to have you let go of the past, and all the pain you are carrying around b/c if you do not do that, you cannot be happy. No one carrying around their baggage and anger and a painful past, can be happy.


How about we see a post about YOU and your GAL activities? Oh, running away is not a GAL activity. A vacation would be GAL, or joining something where you meet new people, or an activity you have never done before...also one in which you meet new people.

For now, maybe your goal can be to just get out of the house on a regular basis.

Please, do not keep making your life revolve around your h...or your pending divorce or your fears.

I've testified in my brother's divorce and seen many divorces, (I am a L) and though all divorces sukk, they are not fatal. Remember that. And real trials are RARE...

Try not to let your fear of the trial paralyze you. Almost NO divorces go to trial and when they do, about 1% go in front of juries.

Fear has influenced the bulk of your decisions and a lot of your actions, to your detriment.

The constant focus on your h and how he has mistreated you does not help you

UNLESS

it helps you to detach from him and see him objectively...which I cannot tell.
But I know that Fear based choices do not lead to joy or balance in your life.

Do you believe, deep down, that you deserve happiness?


Originally Posted By: MrBond
Never mind, I found your response about the meds.

IMHO your doctors are right. It seems that your condition (anxiety, stress, paranoia) is a result of outside stimuli and not anything biological.


Bond, not to quibble but that's not how I read it. FWIW.

Your posts are very erratic and so I'm really concerned about that. I know it's difficult to wean yourself off of the meds, but I firmly believe that unless you get a handle on how to deal with stress in general, you will be dependent on meds for the rest of your life.


IMO, now is no time to wean off the meds unless your doctors say to. And what work are you
doing to get the tools you need to cope with stress better? IF you are not, then don't stop the meds. Plus you alluded to the fact that you have done things whle manic, that you regret. You don't say what, but I trust you are accurate.

In short, I feel as if your inability to handle stress consistently, is working against you and NOT helping your cause.

The calls to your h are NOT helping your cause. DB 101 says "do NOT do what does NOT work" and those calls and VMs do not help you.


You should and CAN live without that.



Bond my friend, you know I almost always agree with you buddy. But why not leave this issue of meds to her doctors?

YES- Yas you do talk about the meds a lot, and act as if you have little control over yourself with OR without them...but that's a cop out.
Even with your diagnosis, you are still responsible for your actions and your efforts at getting better.

My hope is that you'll comply with the physician's directions and contact them ASAP if there are side effects or ineffectiveness in your meds. That is solely YOUR responsibility. Do you get that?

The doctors are not mind readers and cannot tell what you are feeling at home. Sounds as if they have made great effort to provide you with free meds via the samples. Do you trust your doctor or not?


Maybe you need to just totally change your life and do something that doesn't require so much stress. Living simpler doesn't mean you're sacrificing anything. A quiet lifestyle may suit you well after all this.


Agreed ^^^....Some people function better w/stress but for you, a less stressful life is a great suggestion.

What changes in your life are you willing to make?


Do you see the value of letting go of your h, fully?

Even if you really want to reconcile with him, (which you seem to) THEN letting him go is probably the best course of action to take- b/c nothing else has worked.

You must not keep pursuing him b/c that backfires. Detach...please.

If you are meant to be together, then detach and let him discover that

and if you are NOT, then moving on that much faster gets you to happiness that much faster.

make sense?

As far as your soon to be ex h following you or surveilling you or having his friends do it, I guess my question would be, so what?

If he's trying to send you over the edge, don't let it. It would not bother me unless I was inside and half naked and they were acting like papparazzi.

Why spend so much energy on wondering "WHY???" he is doing/thinking/planning or feeling anything?

He is not relevant to your life now. You are responsible for your happiness AND your life.

You always were, and are the only person who is in charge of your life. SO

Let's hear more about YOU and less, or nothing, about HIM...
Pre-disposition or no pre-disposition, I could have done well with out the latter aggravated. The former has had great impact on my achievements and abilities throughout life. Without high doses of meds, the amazingly orderly side of the disorder could be called creative genus.

One of my goals, is a book, an important book, about a particular artist that mentored me as a young girl of 15. I was looked at as a podigy, and never had to pay a dime for my extreme education. I re-visited this artist as I prepared an insuance claim where two of his works were damaged.

I found he had passes away two years back. I became immediately intered in a "research-oriented" project for the first time since I stopped working in 2000. I know so easily how to set this all up, as I've had the best training. Already I have several contact lined up for oral histories. This prices of his work are enormous now. But he gave so much in other ares such as mentoring, and affairs of mankind, that have not been published.

Since I am skilled in his medium of lithography, this technical genus (which he also passed to me) I could easily put to paper - as no one has! Well the story goes on and on. That is a GAL that has been put on the back burner this month while I got off track.

The six months away really helped ME. I understand completely every point you are making 25, it is exactly what I try to promote, perhaps a bit more gently ( when I sense one is ready). I got it, and will expound on my notes of my Goals - several of which I accomplished surprisingly.

Upcoming Goals:

1. Speck to Art Appraisat in Cali. tonight to Complete Statefarm Claim (materials have not come in mail, and are not able to be read from emails)
2. Call contact/associate about a timeline constrution to collect oral histories
3. Find post modern methodolgy text on collecting oral histories and information @ Key informants
4. Gather and send 3 years of unpaid bills to attorney to collect
5. Sunday Morning: Reestablish contact with Mother
6. Get a calendar and start planning a research year, involving travel.
7. Smooze contact I have as a co-author that could write grants for project.
8. Continue applying active listening to get people interest in my reseach topic.
9. Break down and pay a certain amount of hours per week for medication management and goal management, some secretarial. Say 3-6 hours consistently per week - hours must be directed at a specific area, not random.
10. At least one anti-agoraphobic once a week.

This is all I can handle at the moment, 25. I will address your entire mail.

I still wanna know, why, someone who says they don't want their marriage, goes out of their way to follow their wife when they see her on the road.

Don't think there will be trouble at this house after investigation and injuries last summer. Plus neighbors are vigilant. The man across the street even went to the car watching the house, and shot the breeze with him. Thats when no one really knew where I was cause I ditched my car at a shop in the rental town.

I think it will be fun to see my friends over there. The place is just about ready, and Zi just had a call about it today. I need to bring a truckload of stuff home. It will be good to get away. I always have my DB in my phone to protect me!

I will respond more with my coffee in the morning Mr. 25. I am not a yotal failure. It was just a huge slip. Yas/c
I'm not saying that Yas should be totally off meds, but it seems like the usage and dosage has increased with each situation. It might be a good idea to wean off them a little and substitute it with some activity that will help with the anxiety. Exercise, meditation, yoga, whatever. Something that will calm the nerves a bit.

"I still wanna know, why, someone who says they don't want their marriage, goes out of their way to follow their wife when they see her on the road."

Mindreading. You won't be able to know his intentions any more than he can know yours. Bottom line is your H isn't there. Take care of yourself first Yas.

Concentrating on something new is great. Just be sure you balance it with something that is not as intense.
I can go back to NC and darkness. It made detachment efforts so much easier, and the settlement process clear and concise when I worked with my attorney.

Now that settlement phase has failed thus far, I really am on edge. I am more dependent recently on monthly support payment. That and a series of other funchal matters led me into a pattern of having to contact him.

That problem is now solved, as he seemed to ignore some critical money matters and I had to ask my attorney for help. This is how it will go from now on. When there is an issue, I will email it to attorney. I just get too frustrated when important matters are ignored.

I tried to do a nice "hello," and certaiinly have been professional in the VM I have left, with the exception of the last one (fed up with no response on possibly of identy fraud matter). It so much easier to forward to attorney. Also, by not answering or returning my extremely infrequent business calls, (and now discarding the message of the business call), enough rejection is enough rejection.

So, I am alone. Husband is not with me. That is the reality. I have had a set back. When I saw his vehicle following me, I took it as a sign of hope. It means nothing, and I need to get over it.

The above took my concentration for a few weeks here. I need to create some visual charts so I can remember my goals, and chart some realistic GALing, as latter is my weakest area, due to reclusiveness/agoaphobia.

I will make the visuals tomorrow. I have platy of Goals, and have been meeting them consistently. I need more ideas for GALs I can handle. Just getting outside would be a good one. I thought I would be comfortable walking my dogs at the rental house (not this house yet).

What else for reclusive type on GAL? Any ideas?

It was a pretty big deal for me to go next door, ring the bell, and ask to borrow 2 eggs last night from my neighbor! I feel ok about it, because they have been so kind to have the neighborhood assist on my yard. They wanted to give me extra eggs for my breakfast the next day! I declined, I just needed those 3 for the meatballs I was making. I was nurvious a little, and I smacked my bare toes on their brick steps! I really screwed up my toes. I need to start wearing shoes.

Maybe when I get my house looking nice again, I could invite them for a gormet meal? Or perhaps two couples. I used to love to entertain, and host the party. That could be a Spring time GAL, if I'm not thrown out of the house by then. Yas
I was an idiot again last night. Left more VM apologizing for anger on previous VM. I'm spinning. I even had to go through a bunch of trouble to unlock the parental controls and beg the password from my girlfriend.

I suppose I have make the most wicked fool out of myself as possible. I am so ashamed. I've been under such great control for six months. What the heck has happened?

My intentions are good, and then, I mess up.

Like I've advised others, you can always start fresh the next day.

I just hate myself. I didn't beg, plead, or do stuff like that. I discussed matters regarding insurance claim, importance of re-fi, crap like that. One call at a time, as if I was really talking to someone. Then I felt satisfied, and went to bed.

This morning, I'm mortified. I was doing things like this years ago. I thought I had broken myself with the parental controls. At least I never thought to do it in a very very long time. And as this legal stuff starts stirring up, I am panicking, I suppose. I used to get worried after these episodes that I would get in trouble. Now that is what I'm worried about now. I'm scared. I can't move.
Yass are u employed? You need to stop Persuing and get a hold of yourself. You seem to be all over the place. Were you diagnosed as having agoraphobia? Are you in treatment.
I have not worked since 2000. I have been on full psychological disability ( both private and social security). The arghoraphbia gets better and gets worse, depending on circumstances. Indeed, I spend too much time alone, avoid media now. Seems always adding a little something to it.

There are a few doors opening where I feel ok to try being around people again. Such as in the front yard he at the neighborhood, after they all were so nice to clean up the leaves from the yard, I don't feel so ashamed of my curcumstances.

When I talk to people, sometimes I stutter, or get confussed, or get excited and talk too much. I really should start back to church again. That was working out well. I was even-out with medication then.

But now, the dose is higher, and that hurts my confidence. Also, I'm afraid Doctor will have to increase anti-depressants, once I tell him of my daytime sleeping escape that I've started recently. I'm just in a bad fix right now. I clearly understand what Mr. Bond, Rick64, Rick68, 25, and Labug and others have told me. I recently had put my eggs in the MLC basket (which gave me some natural hope), but hope and husband that is not "here" is irrevant to my recovery. I totally got that.

The other lesson I learned this week was it does not matter what Husband does (surveillance, games with money, stalling out divorce process while throwing out intimating threats about trial, etc.). None of it matters a flip - as any interpretation is called "mindreading." Removing this mental analysis from
my daily activities is not unlike taking away another pacifer from me. But I know it is a heathy direction. And it feels like a loss, just as it did when I no longer could anaylize the phone records. Getting my hands off his phone records really cut down on that dimension of obsessing.

I am not going to do anymore Mindreading. I am not going to inssentantly ask "what does this mean, what does this mean, what does this mean?"

When I feel more confident with the medications and my "affect" and have permission from doctor, I am going to find somewhere to volunteer. I did that at the church one summer, creating the huge bulletin boards for the different grade levels - but I needed help with my Stephen's Minister when it came down to getting the job down. She really enjoyed it, and learned a lot and soon after she was able to get a much needed job in that department of the Church. Might have been a good thing I included her - as it was a much bigger project than I thought! I remember it being fun.

I think I would do well volunteering with the elderly - doing arts and crafts, crazy dancing, that kind of thing. I like the elderly because they never raise their eyebrows about the colors in my hair, and they smile a lot a me. I have access too. The girl who does my hair works with elderly hair styles, and just bout a shop on the premises of a nursing home. I could do free photography at their dances, I'm sure all sorts of things whilst promoting my friendgirl's business.

My book idea is a way to put my hand back into my profession again. I am going to need an associate to handle some contacts that are political in nature, as I know fir sure I will screw that up. Anyway, I have found the contact, now it is just a matter to get her to agree - I think mostly she is in shock that I asked her and value her input as a contributor. She said she experience editing, and I reminded that she knew the artist personally throughout his lifetime, and has
sold his work, and knows more about him than I do, plus she has the credentials of an art appraiser. We are becoming long distance friends. It would be an edited compilation anyway, I certainly hope she willagree to co-author.

So these were GAL I was seriouly contemplating not less than a month ago. And now, I'm a bowl of jelly.

But I do know WHY know I should not concern myself with certain things. I got that. And, I have dropped the rope before, and can do it again.

So, your questions: no, I am not employed, by doctor's orders. But I do have an income.

Am I in treatment: Yes, yes and yes (Psychologist, Ph.D.& Psychiatriast M.D., and Phyiscian M.D., all working as a team).

Yes, I follow instructions.

Yes, I am all over the place. I have made some medication mistakes over the last few weeks that I'm sure show up in the history of the text herein. Also, I feel I am spinning, and I am overwhelmed with paperwork matters that I need to attend to. I will also have to discull uping depression med with doctor tomorrow, as I do feel extremely depressed after the recent go rounds and hopes and disappointments, which purely were brought on by myself, and how I chose to handle the fires that started. My protocol will be quite different in the future. I am quickly losing all faith in any possibility of my marriage succeeding after this much time - and this is where I should keep my mindsetso I have time to think about myself. Easier said than done - but has to be done.
Yass if going to church was working do u think u should go back? I don't know about your state but in many they have case management services where they can help with the paperwork and other stuff. Did u tell the doctors about the medication mistakes? Do you have children?
Rick1963,
Like these recent mistakes with medication, and the big speeding ticket, these are new animals I haven't felt with - but too, they are a red flag that I need to pay close Attention to what I'm doing during this stressful period.

The therapist and I had this very conversation at our last session. He had more than 20 questions for me, and I had an answer for each one. These questions were about what I did to solve the problem (meds).

1. I hired my personal assistant
2. He shopped everything I needed to get organnized
3. We filled the NEW medication box properly
4. We disposed of old medication
5. We made a special contained of emergency meds for my handbag
6. We taped over jars of meds I receive in large quantity, so he can assist me when I refill my small bottles to avoid mistakes.
7. Refills are kept in another area.

Theology asked questions leading to all the above answers, as well, as if I had contacted prescribing doctor, which I did, as well as getting advice from pharmacist.

I too, ask therapist, if he thought I should get someone from Medicare in here to help me. His response at this time was that he felt I did an outstanding job correcting the issue once I discovered it. He said, every concern he had, I had more than covered on my own. And his and my goal are for me to be self-sufficient, and normally, I am. Only under extreme stress, is where issues begin.

Now last week, I got the colors reversed in my mind on the box that stores the medications. And I made a mistake again. But I knew it right away. I have coded the box with nite/day stickers - so that takes care of that.

I messed around getting the pills from the bottle for a couple days - and finially, refilled my box last night for this week. The box starts with Sunday. I cannot give you a good reason why I had to wait till Saturaday night to handle this.

The question is the overwhelming paperwork. I have a person that will give me person assistance at 12.00 per hour which is very cheap. He has been helping me in my time of need for a couple years now. What often stands in the way is my perfectionism, then nothing can get done.

Soon, the attorney will need lots of financials from me. And I forgot the cord to my printer at the other house. It seems there is sways an obstical that irritates my perfectionism. Now, the puppy chewed through the vacuum cleaner cord. My assistant went thru all the trouble to take it to Orick for a new cord, but after all the hassles, and them really just trying to sell a new vacuum cleaner, it turned out they really didn't have the proper cord we called about in advance for 39.99. Instead, if I installed a new courd, I had to get one that also contained a whole new (un-matched) handle, that would probably not be so easy for me to install myself.

That is why my assistant deals with this crap. I would have blown a gasket after they had told us it was no problem to buy the cord for my make model over the phone. So the vacuum cleaner sits in the hallway, still broken. It's these kind of things that add up and confound me.

Yes, church. I don't know yet. I'm so embarrassed how long I've been absent. I also did not meet my goal to call my mom this morning as I slep all day. I tried to call her last night, but no answer.
God said come as you are. No need to be embarrased.
No children. I am 55. I don't want to get dependent any more than necessary. Mistakes lack of focus are completely related to fear of the unknown legal maneuvers I sense are coming my way soon. As well, I an extremely comfortable, and more than the average person, attached to my dwelling - sort of like a cocoon. This is no time to unroot me. I live in constant panic that this and the rental home I have worked so hard on will be lost.

Husband got what he wanted from properties - equity to buy business. He has demonstrated he does not give a flip about losing them. Since I will be bought out of the business, I surely hope to keep the rental as it is an outstanding investment property. The house I'm living in was not smart to get, but was his plan and ulterior motive it appears - and it's a little late now. Yas
I always like to look drop dead great for church. And I need a serious dye job. Perhaps I can get my hair done this week and make Mt. Bethel a goal for next Sunday, since I already blew it today. If I'm at the rental, I could give St. James a try.
Guys, I have a whole list of reading that I've been gathering to order from Amazon. But on reconsideration, I think I have researched and read enough for now. My husband is not here and hasn't been for six months. He refuses my calls.

All questions and inquires I have had have been recently answered by Mr. Bond, and Rick 64 and 68, and #25, as well as others.

My last lesson was that it is useless to mindread. These mindreading sessions related to surveillance activity are what have really thrown me off with my detachment process. I really understand now that while they are actions, they are actions without substance.

If a trial is going to come, then a trial is going to come. It is likely just a threat to intimidate me - just like it has. I can reach out if I recieve a summons. In the meantime, I will work on my own interests.

All money or business issues may now go thru my attorney, so I am not here waiting, and "EXPECTING" a forthcoming solution or decent response. Wiping his but is no longer my responsibility.

Any more reading is a waste I think. I have spent a month trying to attribute yet another diagnosis, MLC, to his behaviors, followed up with more analysis and research than the situation deserves at this point, I am beginning to believe. If my head stays in literature, my head stays on him. I am too smart to waste any more intellect on this matter. And I have really gone deep on the subjects in question. I think my animal is a true, helpless Narcissist, when it comes down to the letter. His behavior in Court was just too classic.

So, I am making my new charts for me, and trying to keep the topic on myself, unless an emergency or conundrum appears that throws me into confusion.

I hope you all agree the reading and research shop now stop. Hope to hear from my gang soon. Yas
I did not attend church since I was a kid. Was actually proud of myself for going back even after so many decades. You will be ok going back and seek counsel from the priest/pastor. Plan on going this Sunday an let us know what the sermon was about.
How are u Yass?
Thank you for asking Rick. Kinda of depressed, but got my marching orders. My assistant helped me with overwhelming errand at two banks, a few stores, the tag office, and vet. We had to collect papers for Financial Affidavid, and get a printer cord, and food in the house, and a script. Took 4.5 hours - but all those tasks are done.

We will schedule the computer work time next to get these tasks off my plate.

See theripitst about new direction we've come up with. Also, Get my hair done tomorrow as well. I don't want to go to church with grey roots!

Called an old colleage, had a nice talk last night.

One thing bothers me - the fact my husband has refused to take any of my calls for a long time. Yet he has not changed his number. I know it's a mindread, but nonetheless it bugs me these days. Have not heard his voice since August.

I let go of the other mind-reads. Yas

Progress, wouldn't you say, Rick? Lot of daytime sleeping, not perfect.
It is normal to miss your spouse. Are u sleeping all day because of medications? Yes some progress there.
Originally Posted By: Yasu
Thank you for asking Rick. Kinda of depressed, but got my marching orders. My assistant helped me with overwhelming errand at two banks, a few stores, the tag office, and vet. We had to collect papers for Financial Affidavid, and get a printer cord, and food in the house, and a script. Took 4.5 hours - but all those tasks are done.

Good job. I often think we ALL need personal assistants, or as my sister says "we need a wife"...


We will schedule the computer work time next to get these tasks off my plate.

See theripitst about new direction we've come up with. Also, Get my hair done tomorrow as well. I don't want to go to church with grey roots!

Called an old colleage, had a nice talk last night.

Good job!


One thing bothers me - the fact my husband has refused to take any of my calls for a long time. Yet he has not changed his number. I know it's a mindread, but nonetheless it bugs me these days. Have not heard his voice since August.

Why should he have to change his number when he can just ignore your calls? Changing a phone number is inconvenient as heck. And ignoring your calls makes sense when you consider the voice mails you left him, so if you want to mind read, that is my take on it.

What really matters is that you have no control over him or any of this. When you learn to let go of what you cannot control, your life will really improve.



I let go of the other mind-reads. Yas

Progress, wouldn't you say, Rick? Lot of daytime sleeping, not perfect.


yes progress on the whole...glad you're going to go back to church since it helped.

As Bond suggested, just adding or subtracting meds when you feel stress may be a good thing in the short run

but you MUST learn coping skills that are independent of meds. Do you agree with that?

What behavioral or cognitive therapy are you doing to learn to cope better?

Divorce is a major stressor and 4 years is a long time...but then again it's 4 years of you getting used to the idea...

but getting organized, a dog chewing a cord (my dog chewed the replacement cord too!) and other things you mentioned, are necessary hassles of life.

since you can afford a personal assistant, focus on gratitude for that and focus on other things that do not stress you.

oh as for GAL that do Not involve meeting new people (which goes against the grain for me, b/c I think the best GAL involves meeting new people...but I will back off that for now for your sitch)

You can join groups that are online, including a writer's group. Also several discussion groups exist including ones for people with your diagnosis AND your other interests too---so your focus won't be all about illness.

Keep on keeping on...
I meant to put this in red on the previous post...


Why should he have to change his number when he can just ignore your calls? Changing a phone number is inconvenient as heck. And ignoring your calls makes sense when you consider the voice mails you left him, so if you want to mind read, that is my take on it.
In answer to the previous question, if I indeed, wanted to cease all calls from a certain person I would do either:

A) Change my phone number

B) Put a block on the caller.

A year ago, I send husband a check tonpay two years in advance for the call-blocking system on his phone. (as the cell phone, seems to be my ONLY weak point). I assumed he did it for so many months, and I never even tried to call. After our January 2011 courtdate I totally broke, and went into grieving. I dialed the number. And the block was not there. Consequently, he heard me grieve.

I realize this is all about self control, which I am now exercising, even though I paid $180 in advance to protect my propensity to turn to the cell VM when in pain.

As we prepare documentation for attorney for money he owes me, perhaps we should demand a refund for the $180!

As well, 25, I have read that some get off knowing that LBS still makes those calls, so inconvenience may not be the real reason for dissing the calls, nor changing the number. If it was so bloody bad, at least put the "prepaid" block on there. My intellect tells me the calls serve some significance, if even entrapment evidence against me. Yas
Oh dear. Again, I am ashamed of myself. But I tell you all the complete truth that goes thru my mind, dispite the shame.

Tonight, I got myself on another topic as there are tenants interested in the rental home I have worked so hard on for six months. It rather exciting to see the return on my investment in terms of a higher rental amount!

Looks good. Good enough to make the trip to meet the tenants. Need to make trip anyway - to get away, and move my stuff back home.

I will need to do a little work there - switch out all electrical sockets and wall switches, and replace all plates. Also, need to get a dishwasher installed, and install myself a few ceiling fixtures, and she's done!

I will miss the place. But need to turn efforts to this place now, once Athens is secured and rented.

Oh, the reason for the daytime sleeping. Escape. I use medication that I am allowed to have for anxiety to increase my ability to sleep. Often, in the daytime, after my coffe, I really do not wish to be conscious. Anti-anxiety medicine can relax you to a point of falling asleep, as well as ADHD medications. Which I would say is a mis use (not an abuse) of medication.

Doctor has changed ADHD medicine to Adderall which is much more likely to keep me awake. He told me to hold back due to insomnia. With recent medication mistakes it really is hard to judge what is what.

My guess when I see doctor next week is that we need to increase antidepressant (welbutrin to 450). The sleep escape is obviously depression from our most recent discussions on-line.

He will probably give me the ok to try the Adderall once the depression is controlled. I actually could email him about tomorrow. What ya think? I slept four hours this afternoon (escaping). Please advise tomorrow, he could phone in the 150 welbutrin - and it would have the weekend to take effect. I think I need it. I'm pretty freaked out about going out of doors and driving. Let me know. Yas
Yas,

if you are asking for my opinion on your prescritions, I'd defer to your doctors. I have a doctorate in LAW, not medicine.

I happen to know from someone close to me, that adderall AND wellbutrin at that level, would keep a horse awake. But I don't know the other meds or effects OR your body

or your other health issues.

I do wish you'd take Bond's advice about learning to get TOOLS for life skills to cope with life on its' terms...

other than the meds.


Sure, the meds can bridge a gap for you

OR treat an underlying chemical imbalance...I get that, and I support it.

But right now, you are blaming the medication "mistakes" for a lot of your distractability and overthinking things and CALLING your h and them blaming your h for not blocking you yikes!

(and arent' the med mistakes - yours? So what are you going to do to reduce them?)

If my h told me to put a block on MY phone AND change my number (even if he paid for it) I would see that as incredibly odd & controlling of him.

You are the one asking him (or demanding) for a favor b/c

you cannot control YOU --and you want him to change HIS number and send out new info to busines /social contacts b/c you are afraid you will call him. I don't want to crush your hopes but I see far too little movement towards a reconciliation from him, to spend energy on it.

Stop worrying about what his actions/inactions mean or don't mean. I will post a piece on Detachment for you to ponder at the end of this.

You don't see anything odd about YOU imposing your will on him-wanting him to change HIS phone

b/c you lack the self control it takes to not call. Maybe you can block yourself...somehow, or just behaviorally.

See, I think that type of behavior validates his choice to leave,

though you have been vague about what HE SAID when he wanted out.

I want to know if you are countering the negatives he has of you

with positive different behaviors
...are you? How so?

Moving forward in your life does Not = giving up. It increases your level of happiness which is attractive

and if he turns your way, you'll be a lot more ready to heathily engage...

if he does not, you will still be better off that much sooner.

make sense?

here's the short piece on DETACHMENT, which is key to your mental and emotional health...to all of ours.



II. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally all that is said, not said, done and not done.

Our ego gets wounded and we say or do things that undermine our goals.

We can NOT control the actions of another. We are, however, responsible for our own actions. We are & always have been, responsible for our own happiness.

If we are detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals. On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not the mind saying, "I am not getting what I want so I must pull back." It is the natural acceptance of the reality that "I am alone responsible for how I act. I cannot control another person, but I can control how I respond to them."
Thank you 25. Having a doctorate myself in assessment, measurement and evaluation, I can tell you I feel like a complete idiot when I come up with such ideas. That is the reason Phychiatriast is having me come in more frequently. While I like to "play" doctor at home, I never do anything without the doctor's prescription! No worries! I learned that I am not my doctor two decades ago.

VM Extinguishment Bursts

If I blamed these for the reason of my distraction and recent mistakes I was completely wrong. If I blamed husband for my lack of control when I get in one of the moods, infrequently, I was completely wrong. The simple fact is that I was unable to control my urge and expectation for immediate gratification and attention at that moment I wanted to handle the VM matters I called about.

If he chides to be nonresponsive, I have the option to call the attorney rather than get piss't off and distracted or obsessed with the problem or business matter.

Root of Distraction Problem and Increased Meds

Once I returned home from rental, I was twice serveiled on the road. These took me quite by surprise. I hadn't felt with this problem in months. One Serveillence he himself followed me 15 miles to my doctors appointment. The next one was at the grocery very soon after. I took these as signs of his interest (mindreading) only to get slammed with threats of a trial - which frightened me.

All, culminated in extreme anxiety and insomnia, and phichaitrist upped several doses. On my home from that doctor I got that fat ticket, followed by several other mistakes with medication, and important emails and business matters I goofed up. That is when I really started posting a lot on DB. As my therapist corrected me today, "I allowed" those two surveilences to really get to me.

And I did, (and still do) believe they were the root of my spinning once I got home. And I think I would Have less anxiety if I could drive without seeing him, or others perched watching me. It is stopped, it was weeks ago, and I just have to get over it.

This severe anxiety, once it starts, it's like a tornado. I am just now realizing these events had to have been at least a couple weeks ago, maybe four weeks ago. That is why it is very nice if the tornado is not started in the first place. As during a tornado, a lot of damage can be done.

Yes, he knows very well he pushed the buttons to start this tornado with the surveilences, purposely holding back my checks, and shorting the mortgage to the last possible day it would go on the credit report. These latter tactics are new, and were effective. So, I cannot let him yank my chain.

However - I just don't understand how he bears no responsibly by purposely entagonizing a highly medicated person, he well knows is prone to paranoia in certain curcumstances. Can you explain that to me?

I will address the rest of you post as well later on this evening. Yas
Let me add, when I realize I am distracted, for whatever reason, it is my responsibility to take reasonable precautions. Therefore, any mistakes, (despite their root beginnings, or remedies to cure the anxiety caused from events), are my mistakes and no one else's.

Theripist thought I used good judgement in precautions once mistakes were identified. Therefore we decided having Medical assistance from Medicare would just make me dependent.

Anyway, all this that I just wrote is what we worked on in the theripy today. I brought you notes 25.

Couldn't do it all in 50 min. But I will study more later today after my GAL at the hairdresser. Yas
The detachment piece is the clearest and most concise I've read, 25. I thought I was there while I was away the past months at the rental. But I was just running away from the triggers. I so enjoyed my time there because I went out without worrying about serveilence.

But really, I demonstrated extremely depressed behavior and slept most of the time.

Today the therapist, for the second time, pointed out I seem to be in a denial/bargaining state. I agree. I have reached gut wrenching grieving. But obviously I have not finished.

I have to work on the detachment. I misread withdrawal as detachment. Help.
Hi Yas! Since I am still working to learn the DB principles I don't have any specific advice for you since I am still figuring everything out... But I do want to say that I keep up with your sitch and pray for you everyday. Keep your chin up and know that everybody here is rooting for you! :-)
Thank you Broken. I feel so broken, too. Please do not be stood and waste over three years kidding yourself. I am so happy you found the forum soon after your crisis began. Today I am so saddened to face that I may just be at the beginning. I'm just not processing, just obviously too many drugs.

I'm tracing my slow down to the start of the heavy doses of mood stabilizers, about two years ago. The introduction of those things also made me nonproductive and zombee like.

I was excited again revamping my art sculpture that had just been junked in the basement, as husband didn't like. And that is fair enough. They are very challenging pieces - and they are huge. They are electronic assemblages that contrast concepts such as heaven and he'll, good and evil, etc. Spinning heads, bloodied mummies, tattooed baby dolls, religious figures, all back dropped with party lights. They are creepy, voodooesk - but now, are proudly displayed in the front living room, yes, the rooms with the seven foot bay windows on the front. I thing I was actually GALing back then.

Surveillance suddenly started big time spring 2010. Both on the road, and at places I went. I got scared in the grocery store and had a panic attack. The ambulance was called and I ended up in the hospital. It's been downhill since.
I never quite got back on track after that.

The difference between then and now is that I am not afraid of the servielence. And it has really toned down, since the neighborhood observed it and got involved. The only other difference is the mood stabilizer in my system, and increased doses of AD's. Well, I see Psychiatrist again early next week. I am telling him I still am not right. Exerting I write here is a huge manic contradiction.

Please understand, my lovely readers and contributors, I am not bull headed. I am a very good learner and reporter. I just don't know if I'm coming or going. Bit I am paying close attention, and absorbing your responses and analysis as quickly as I can. Too, bringing our discussion to Theripist so there will be some solution based direction. I think this is a very good therapist - I can judge by his openness to the forums principles, and responses.

I had a therapist that was extremely condescending that I tolerated way too long. I'm in good hands now.

Today, running to another state seemed like a really good idea, literally! But I know I cannot disappear.

For real though, I really don't care to live here as my marriage is obviously over. This is not my choice of a place to live. Plus, I don't want to see him, even by accident. It will never be good for me. This is problematic with upsideown homes, three of them. I would really like to live in Chicago, which is where I am from if I were to set a goal to work towards. It is not a realistic goal, but, I have reached goals that did not seem realistic before. Hmmm.

25, I realize there is a question pending. When my husband abandoned me for a second time in Greece, I did not return home for a few months. No one knew where I was for a long time. Someone in the family spotted me in a village nearby the family home. I really had no idea how close these towns were to one another. The word got round that I was living abroad without my husband. I'm told colorful rumors began in the villages, and spread, shaming my Greek family. American married woman traveling alone, without her husband, for months, is not acceptable behavior in the old culture, period. That's a nice way to put it.

Finially, my husband came over to Greece, and hired detectives to try to find me, unsuccessfully. The plan was to have me served. I got home just after he got home. We made up. Subsequently, he said he wanted a divorce. I asked him to leave the marital home, and I high tailed it to an attorney that I had pre-selected a year prior, and got my filing in first by just a few hours.

And that is what happened. My doctor (at the time) supported my time away, and I came back 30 pounds lighter, and better able to cope, and make a stand on how I would handle his abuse in the future.
25 - you are a genius. Where did you get that Detachment article/thought. I have put it on a sticky. If you read my sitch, you can see I am having problems between attaching and detaching. Luckily, I am just sitting here angry so it doesn't matter and I haven't made any rash comments to him. So....reading and rereading your post. Thank you.
Yes PTC - it is a gem! Is is so direct and clear, without a trace of reductive bias. Yet, it doesn' exactly tell you how to do it. I assume that is GALing! And I do recal a time, as stated above, when my mind was on re-camping my art!

Now, I stutter, have to be extremely careful walking and driving, and my hands and body shake as if I have Parkinson's. But my hair looks GREAT!

Where is that Facebook DB posting site anyway?
Ya know, the greatest thing happened today, and I didn't even mention it! The gal I know that does my hair works with a lot of senior citizens who like the roll-up style - actually, that is a good portion of her clientele.

Recently, she saved her little divorce alimony money's and purchased a a salon business in a nursing home (I told her to call it a senior community!). Anyway, I got my hair done at that place today.

It was a great experience! Of course, I have always enjoyed "cutting up" with her elderly clients. I seem to like to hang with the elderly crowd - I found that to be especially true at the church.

I am very colorful and artistic. I am not the typical suburbanite - that is for sure. And at the church, I could definently feel my age bracket avoiding me, likely based on hairstyle and clothing style alone (nevermind I am a retired UGA professor with an earned Ph.D.). Listen, you know when people shun you, you can feel it.

But the elderly croud always invited me to their breakfast table before the morning service. This wild red hair, with chocolate, tangerine, blonde, and sweet-sour sauce highlights and low-lights didn't bother the ladies with blue hair.

Anyway, I was a big hit at the salon today. All the ladies (residents) were smiling, and so was I, as I cracked my jokes, and acted like myself.

I also kicked it off good with the previous salone owner who is still working there. I really sense I have a talent (or comfort) with elderly people and seniors. I was dancing to the 40's music on the way out, and two ladies got up to join me! One said, it would really be great if they actually latex some music in here. I told her, MaMa, turn up your hearing aid! Somehow, it's ok for me to say that.

There is definently a volunteer possibility here. They have parties and such - and the location is in a ritzy town. I'm not looking to make any money, since I have an income.

I could do art lessons, dancing, exercise, photography at thier dance functions. Many things. I think I would really enjoy it.

This would be consider GALing I believe. Yas
Originally Posted By: Yasu
Ya know, the greatest thing happened today, and I didn't even mention it! The gal I know that does my hair works with a lot of senior citizens who like the roll-up style - actually, that is a good portion of her clientele.

Recently, she saved her little divorce alimony money's and purchased a a salon business in a nursing home (I told her to call it a senior community!). Anyway, I got my hair done at that place today.

It was a great experience! Of course, I have always enjoyed "cutting up" with her elderly clients. I seem to like to hang with the elderly crowd - I found that to be especially true at the church.

I am very colorful and artistic. I am not the typical suburbanite - that is for sure. And at the church, I could definently feel my age bracket avoiding me, likely based on hairstyle and clothing style alone (nevermind I am a retired UGA professor with an earned Ph.D.). Listen, you know when people shun you, you can feel it.

But the elderly croud always invited me to their breakfast table before the morning service. This wild red hair, with chocolate, tangerine, blonde, and sweet-sour sauce highlights and low-lights didn't bother the ladies with blue hair.

Anyway, I was a big hit at the salon today. All the ladies (residents) were smiling, and so was I, as I cracked my jokes, and acted like myself.

I also kicked it off good with the previous salone owner who is still working there. I really sense I have a talent (or comfort) with elderly people and seniors. I was dancing to the 40's music on the way out, and two ladies got up to join me! One said, it would really be great if they actually latex some music in here. I told her, MaMa, turn up your hearing aid! Somehow, it's ok for me to say that.

There is definently a volunteer possibility here. They have parties and such - and the location is in a ritzy town. I'm not looking to make any money, since I have an income.

I could do art lessons, dancing, exercise, photography at thier dance functions. Many things. I think I would really enjoy it.

This would be consider GALing I believe. Yas


Sounds like you have found your calling, Yas. Go for it!
He put me on the trial calendar for May 21. Wind effectively outta my sails. Up, down, up, down, up, down.

I'm suppose to drive to rental today, looks like we have long term tenants. The pay off for my hard efforts and investment there for over 6 months. What about that?

Not to mention the demands for not 6, but 12 months of paperwork.

It's too much. Help. I'm freaking.
Ok, I'm officially mortified by having to go to trial. WW25D?

25 wouldn't worry about it. She'd say a lot can happen between now and May 21st, 22nd, and 23rd. Settlements happen in the Courthouse all the time.

How does this work? Do we get to do all our questioning of him first, since we filed first? (That could work to our advantage, as he cannot control himself on the stand. He is so angry - it scares me - even in the Court. I am sure the anger is all about the money and splitting asset).

Or is it a take turns kind of thing in the Court? My attorney is gone for this month. Oh dear. I'm paralyzed. I secretly hoped it would just stay in limbo.
Hi Yass. I don't know how trial works but why worry about it. Wait until your L returns so you can talk about it. Your L will work on your behalf so try to calm down.

Anyways How do you say hi in Greek?
Originally Posted By: Yasu
Ok, I'm officially mortified by having to go to trial. WW25D?

25 wouldn't worry about it. She'd say a lot can happen between now and May 21st, 22nd, and 23rd. Settlements happen in the Courthouse all the time.

Yes indeed. Settlements often happen the DAY of the "trial". And the trial is not going to be in front of a jury if your h has trouble keeping his temper. IF it does somehow get a jury, be GLAD b/c when he loses it, it helps you.

IF you are in a community property state this is straight forward and the judge will chastize the lawyers for not settling it. If he can tell who is stalling or who is making unreasonable demands, he'll blast them and send you out of the room to see "if you can work it out" without a trial.

Worst case--you go to trial...so what? Why all the self inflicted freaking? Stop it. What exactly are you so afraid of? Doesn't make sense to me. Sorry.

But you need to get a grip. And remember that even if your L is out for a month (??? for medical reasons???) there are others at his firm who can go to bat for you. You do not have to "wait" and not even call.

Ask his office if there are protective steps that must be completed before the L's return. If they say "no, it's fine", then accept that and let go of what you cannot control.

Letting go of what you cannot control, turning it over to God, are two things you CAN do that are keys to your peace of mind.



How does this work? Do we get to do all our questioning of him first, since we filed first? (That could work to our advantage, as he cannot control himself on the stand. He is so angry - it scares me - even in the Court. I am sure the anger is all about the money and splitting asset).

Of course. What else would it be? He'd approach you if he wanted to reconcile and yes, he can say AND MEAN IT when he says he'll "always love you" but not want to be married to you.

If my h died or left me, I'd always love a part of him. Eventually I'd also move on and be happy again, b/c that is solely my responsibility, and I have children to model this for.

IOW, yes you can grieve and feel sad, like I did when my dad died. But my grief was Not fatal or eternal. I hope that is what I showed them.
I hope you realize it too.

The property dispute is probably why this has taken so long. It's common. Ask your L or his firm how this works. I don't know your state, and I'm not a divorce attorney.

WHY are you scared of him? If you fear physical abuse, file a restraining order. If you are afraid of "making him mad" b/c....you think that hurts thte chance of a reconciliation, let that go.

DO some cognitive therapy yourself to get you to realize when your fears are not realistic or proportional, then get a grip!

YOU are in charge of YOU - not your h or the judge or the weather or the PAST or a car in the driveway supposedly watching you. BTW I don't know that I buy all that surveillance stuff, or its' significance, but even if I did, have you considered it might be related to a workers comp or disability claim investigation

OR someone hired for purposes of the possible divorce litigation? That is not rare. You could hire a private eye to document adultery or a forensic accountant to see if he is hiding assets. (I am not suggesting it, just listing other things that people do)

Although None of these are positives or baby steps to me, they are also not reasons for constant worry.

I would vigorously assist your L, stop letting paperwork that is normal and inconvenient to everyone overwhelm you. You have an assistant and btw, we're getting audited and my husband is getting deployed to the middle east (and no, we didn't see that coming). So Yes sometimes life throws a lot at you and it sukks...we hired a CPA for the audit, b/c it's such a hassle. But I'm not 'freaking" and YOU DO NOT HAVE TO FREAK OUT.

You have no control over his anger and that is his job to control. Stay in your sandbox working on YOUR Issues and let him stay in his sandbox working on is. Let your L do ALL contacting and do NOT call or VM your h again.

If he keeps those ranting messages you send, they do not help you
. Let HIM be the one to lose his temper, not you. Plus, if he loses his temper in court it only helps you.





Or is it a take turns kind of thing in the Court? My attorney is gone for this month. Oh dear. I'm paralyzed. I secretly hoped it would just stay in limbo.


why? B/C life is just so great this way? It's not great.

You have to plow or swim through this, to get to the other side. But you do have to move...Don't keep looking over your shoulder, just move forward and get to the other side. IT's much nicer over there.

And your h has arms and fingers and knows how phones and email works. HE can contact you if and when he wants to. No mind reading needed til if and when that happens.



Here is a true story that changed my life a little bit, forever. See if you can relate and maybe read it again later if you feel too distracted.

When I was pregnant with our 2nd child, I worked full time. I then got very sick late in the pregnancy and I was hospitalized. I felt like crap in a whole new way.

I had herniated a disk, which hurt A LOT, then a cold I had suddenly morphed into pneumonia and then I got eclamptic (pregnancy induced high blood pressure, among other things-high risk of stroke and organ damage). THEN I went into renal failure...I was miserable and terrified.

My back hurt, I felt so miserable, I was huge and sort of unkempt, and I felt pretty sorry for myself.

But the medical care kicked in, and though I still felt like crap, the baby seemed fine and I was 8 months along so if need be, she could be delivered safely. I felt less afraid, but still felt melancholy.

Out the windwo, I saw a full moon outside. At that moment, I realized probably millions of pregnant women around the world saw that same moon. I wondered what their lives were like. Were they in their homes, or rice fields...

Unlike most of them,

I was getting good medical care. I had a husband and I knew where he was and that no one had killed or robbed him.

NO one was abducting my son for their tribal army. No one would steal my daughter to make her into a sex slave.

I had food in my refrigerator at home (I had a refrigerator! I had a home!).

There'd be food in the frig the next day too. My home was a safe shelter and we both even jobs we enjoyed.

Our son was healthy and our daughter would likely be too, and she'd be born in a hospital. (Not a dirt floor with a branch in my mouth for "pain relief"). Actual physicians would be there delivering my child, not a neighbor who once gave birth, nor would I deliver my child alone.

No one was telling me how to worship God, or IF I could. No one was hacking my family to death b/c of our religion, or race. I could vote and drive a car and have a job. No one was shooting at me, or hunting me, or raping me or maiming me or my family...

and you know what? That made me better off than 95% of the women in the world, (if not more).

So Keep your perspective.

You are stronger than you think and you CAN make yourself stronger. Don't see yourself as a "victim of life" or your h, b/c you are not.

If he's a jerk, then that's that. You will be better off without him. IF he's not a jerk and if he acts loving, then you will KNOW it and the endless guessing and mind reading will reveal itself to be a waste of your precious time.

You are well educated, & looking good. Whatever health problems you have are being treated. You are not about to live on the streets,

only to die in the gutter where dogs begin chewing on you (that'a s line from the book/film "Bridget Jones Diary").

You will continue to have shelter, income, and food and medical care!

Turn your marriage over to God and by that, I mean, think it, say it, hear yourself say it, and it will sink in...and then, do not take it back.

I had to do it 100 times a day on rough days, usually in the shower so the kids didn't hear.

And learn to Be more grateful. It really helps a lot.
My attorney has written several letters regarding the servellance, and it's impact on my condition. His council denied.

I did think about the private insurance company, especially after a daytime stake out - where the guy took pictures of me, and didn't give a crap that I saw him. Pictures of me getting my mail - still upsetting for someone who has panic and paranoia issues.

I even considered the insurance on the restaurant - perhaps something was wrong there.

I finially made a visit to the police headquaters as I actually had photographs
and wittnesses, and a huge bag of Dunkin donuts, and a busted up face. The head detective had time to work with me. He pulled all my reports, gave the photos to the invstigators.

He said there is no way an insurance company would carry out an investigation like the the ones that were reported. The detected told me these kinds of activities are related to divorces in most cases.

The best part was to be taken seriously, as well, I learned there is nothing you can do other than take a stalking order out against the perpatrator.

I guess those photos vindicated me in a way. I might have some issues, but I'm not gonna run barefoot on asphalt, downhill, and bust myself up to get pictures of just a random driver-by. Those that didn't buy my story, like you 25, had a paradigm shift when they saw the 8x10 photographs of the kind of thugs that have been sitting outside my bedroom window.

I cannot tell you the feeling when you know you are not believed - and you ARE reporting the complete truth. To see eyes roll, or a "not sure I buy that" are terminologies I am unaccustomed too - as a damn good researcher. It almost feels like gaslighting. I know people mean well.

And here is what I am afraid of in Court. I tell my story, and I'm not believed. I also worry, terribly about my ability to recall information, and do not want to appear I am stalling or BSing when my mind is blank. I can look at my lawyer, and not even recall her name, that is how bad the memory issue is with the drugs.

I stutter, and have very visible tremors. I don't want him to see me like this.

Next, the disability issue for 12 years VS a Ph.D. Some people cannot and will not understand this disorder. This seems to be an angle opposing council plans to show. (doesn't make sense though, other than they believe I can go back to work in my profession like this, and that will cut down on alimony?).

Jury. My husband won't take his attorney advice. Jury would not like either of us. They wont understand my illness, and of course, his temper. Jury is bad all around. But he was demanding (with his fist on the table) to be heard last time in Court. And it was something to hear and watch, indeed.

Questions will have to be repeated to me. I can only hold so much in my mind. Having been deposed many times, even seven hours at a time, I am methodical and concise in my response. Not sure my attorney is confident about that yet. That can be viewed as a good thing, but a bad thing to.

Anyway, this is just responding to the red box. I don't want to make mistakes in Court. Timeframes are totally squewed in my mind. It is like these years have not even gone by. Like time is still.

I'm not especially excited to see my husband ripped to shreads on the stand - when this time, it would be entertainment, shock and awe. He will have to answer questions. The last court appearance, while entertaining for the spectators, was pretty grilling for me to sit thru. I couldn't help him, and he thought he was doing a great job. He walked off the stand like a proud peacock. I am so embarrassed for him. His anger and rage are at such a level that I would be concerned about his BP.

With as easily as I can get mixed up, his lawyer can probably make me look just terrible too. I don't wish to look terrible, and to get mixed up, and then have the judge assume my mind is as clear as anyone else's. For a fair playing field, everyone involved should have at least one Topamax mood stabilizer, so we can be on the same page. Well, that would be in a perfect world!

I'll respond to the other post about having a baby later on. I can give you more reasons why I am mortified. I hope these are good enough. Thank you so much for responding, 25! Yas
Hi Yass try and take it easy. You are worrying too much. I bet you lawyer knows exactly what to do to protect your interest. What are doing for fun tonight? What do you like to do? I'm about to play video games. Love video games. Have a good night
Hi Rick 63,

You are so right! There was a time I used to have fun! I remember perhaps two years ago I was crazed over Cake Mania. I became an expert!

In contrast, I've been balled up on the chaise worried, contemplating, watching out the window, sleeping, for the last two years. There is a St. Michail's icon that I can stare at for 10 hours straight, lost in my thoughts and analysis.

I know it must end. The drug causing this zombee reaction probably needs to be taken out of the mix - at least for awhile. I see that Dr. On Monday.

As for Cake Mania - I can't handle it. What I enjoyed most today, was going to sleep after my coffee, and finding out it was already past 5! I then looked on my DB, and enjoyed reading the responses I had received!

Didn't go out of town as planned today. To nervous to drive. I have this nervous itching condition that comes with stress, and I've ripped my hands and ankles bloody. I did not take care of an important paperwork item today, because I forgot what I was supposed to write on there - the advisor is on California time, but I feel so stupid to have to call for such simple information. I wrote it, but I cannot see where I wrote it.

Fun. I had fun at the nursing home yesterday. My hair is all smashing and I got no where to go.

There is pleant to do though. Maybe I'll try the Adderall tomorrow as an experiment. Thanks for reading and writing Rick 63. Yas
Originally Posted By: Yasu
My attorney has written several letters regarding the servellance, and it's impact on my condition. His council denied.

I did think about the private insurance company, especially after a daytime stake out - where the guy took pictures of me, and didn't give a crap that I saw him. Pictures of me getting my mail - still upsetting for someone who has panic and paranoia issues.

I even considered the insurance on the restaurant - perhaps something was wrong there.

I finially made a visit to the police headquaters as I actually had photographs
and wittnesses, and a huge bag of Dunkin donuts, and a busted up face. The head detective had time to work with me. He pulled all my reports, gave the photos to the invstigators.

He said there is no way an insurance company would carry out an investigation like the the ones that were reported. The detected told me these kinds of activities are related to divorces in most cases.

that would make sense. You did say that you are "prone to paranoia" in the same sentence claiming you are being followed. You need to prepare for how most strangers hear that. Don't be offended by doubt; understand it and expect and acknowledge it. THAT builds credibility.



The best part was to be taken seriously, as well, I learned there is nothing you can do other than take a stalking order out against the perpatrator.

I guess those photos vindicated me in a way. I might have some issues, but I'm not gonna run barefoot on asphalt, downhill, and bust myself up to get pictures of just a random driver-by. Those that didn't buy my story, like you 25, had a paradigm shift when they saw the 8x10 photographs of the kind of thugs that have been sitting outside my bedroom window.

I cannot tell you the feeling when you know you are not believed - and you ARE reporting the complete truth. To see eyes roll, or a "not sure I buy that" are terminologies I am unaccustomed too - as a damn good researcher. It almost feels like gaslighting. I know people mean well.

I believe I used the term "gaslighting" referring to your h. Do you recall that?

And here is what I am afraid of in Court. I tell my story, and I'm not believed. I also worry, terribly about my ability to recall information, and do not want to appear I am stalling or BSing when my mind is blank. I can look at my lawyer, and not even recall her name, that is how bad the memory issue is with the drugs.

first of all I don't see that much relevance to his surveillance if this is really a property settlement hearing. So why go there?



I stutter, and have very visible tremors. I don't want him to see me like this.


don't want WHO to see you like this? Your h? Hmmm, but you want to be married to him?

When are you at your best? What is that like?

What helps you get there? Focus on that, not your fears. Your fears take up too much of your life. Did you read my whole post?



Next, the disability issue for 12 years VS a Ph.D. Some people cannot and will not understand this disorder. This seems to be an angle opposing council plans to show. (doesn't make sense though, other than they believe I can go back to work in my profession like this, and that will cut down on alimony?).

Jury. My husband won't take his attorney advice. Jury would not like either of us. They wont understand my illness, and of course, his temper. Jury is bad all around. But he was demanding (with his fist on the table) to be heard last time in Court. And it was something to hear and watch, indeed.

worst case they may think you're partly malingering, but that he's an SOB...you win


Questions will have to be repeated to me. I can only hold so much in my mind. Having been deposed many times, even seven hours at a time, I am methodical and concise in my response. Not sure my attorney is confident about that yet. That can be viewed as a good thing, but a bad thing to.

Anyway, this is just responding to the red box. I don't want to make mistakes in Court. Timeframes are totally squewed in my mind. It is like these years have not even gone by. Like time is still.

I'm not especially excited to see my husband ripped to shreads on the stand - when this time, it would be entertainment, shock and awe. He will have to answer questions.
.

explain this^^^ please. I'm not clear on your meaning


The last court appearance, while entertaining for the spectators, was pretty grilling for me to sit thru. I couldn't help him, and he thought he was doing a great job. He walked off the stand like a proud peacock. I am so embarrassed for him. His anger and rage are at such a level that I would be concerned about his BP.

wow...that is NOT your problem (unless you want to make it all about you and then he can blame you for it??) Avoid such co-dependence.

With as easily as I can get mixed up, his lawyer can probably make me look just terrible too. I don't wish to look terrible, and to get mixed up, and then have the judge assume my mind is as clear as anyone else's. For a fair playing field, everyone involved should have at least one Topamax mood stabilizer, so we can be on the same page. Well, that would be in a perfect world!


Ask your shrink/MD to give you whatever helps your recall the most and do the Cognitive work to stay calm and clear.

The hearing won't kill you, and it won't last forever. And when its over - you will finally be able to close that chapter...



I'll respond to the other post about having a baby later on. I can give you more reasons why I am mortified. I hope these are good enough. Thank you so much for responding, 25! Yas



I didn't bring up the baby so I guess someone else did. FYI I get confused with various posters and their backstories all the time.
Yass I'm glad you enjoy reading responses. I do too very much. Sounds like you had a good siesta. For a while I lived in Argentina. Everyone slept siesta except me. Think I was the only kid awake in the country. Lol. Hey can you help at the nursing home tomorrow. You should show of that new stunning hair due.

Doesn't Yassu mean hi in Greek?
Please, tell me... How can I completely read and respond to what is in the box within a box when someone is responding specifically to my post? I need help on this, I am very frustrated, and want to be sure I'm absorbing all that Ms. 25 is giving me.

And yes, 25, I have a propensity towards paranoia, especially with the history of this surveillance looming under my bedroom window at all hours, and being tailed to my doctor's office or other errands, or flat out run off of effing 285. Yes, I look over my shoulder at all times. I am always aware of my surroundings. Because, I am paranoid, and proud of it! No one will take me by surprise! No one will make me so nervous in the car where I end up flipping it. Been there, done that. No more. No mam'.
On malingering, 25. In required forensic psychological examinations, I seem to score a big zero in malingering. I get so ticked off at those tests. If they would just give me a second chance at it!!!!!???? I used to be a master test taker - but none of my techniques are applicable on their crazy tests! I swear the girl must have made these tests at home as a craft project!

My entire dissertation was the determining the validity and reliability of a diagnotic measurement instrument. Can you imagine how infuriating it was to fail after fail after fail their crazy tests? The tester gal kept changing test topics, and I didn't know if I was coming or going. I lodged complaints with the forensic psychiatrist to no avail. Fail, fail, fail, wrong, wrong, wrong. That is all I heard from that testing girl. 3 days - nothing but negative feedback. What the heck do you expect?
Originally Posted By: Yasu
On malingering, 25. In required forensic psychological examinations, I seem to score a big zero in malingering. I get so ticked off at those tests. If they would just give me a second chance at it!!!!!???? I used to be a master test taker - but none of my techniques are applicable on their crazy tests! I swear the girl must have made these tests at home as a craft project!


Not sure what you mean by all this^^^. By "malingering", I meant that your h or worker's comp (or whoever else might care about your disability)

may want to argue that you are not getting better by choice, or that you are faking it, so they don't have to pay you as much.

I AM NOT saying you are malingering, or even that they are saying it...just what MY use of the word meant.

So i don't know the context of your "scoring zero" on their tests, and how your "techniques are not applicable", etc.



My entire dissertation was the determining the validity and reliability of a diagnotic measurement instrument. Can you imagine how infuriating it was to fail after fail after fail their crazy tests?

I don't know what you mean by "failing" a test if the issue is malingering in the context in which I used it. I DO know of stupid tests however.


The tester gal kept changing test topics, and I didn't know if I was coming or going. I lodged complaints with the forensic psychiatrist to no avail. Fail, fail, fail, wrong, wrong, wrong. That is all I heard from that testing girl. 3 days - nothing but negative feedback. What the heck do you expect?


what tests are you referring to? I am confused.
I wish I could get the red witing and the box on one screen so I could see what is all says. It doesn't scroll very easily. I was trying to explain how grilling the forensic testing process is. For a person that is a perfectionist at test taking, and even selected such as a part of dissertation topic. And how the very nature of my objections may have downgraded me. Actually, I was not hired to evaluate their testing procedures, so I acted outside my boundaries, speaking to my illness, which the forensic test is for. At what point do you get irrated with the tests and start finding fault? Most likely one of their diagnostic questions.

25, I think I just went off on a tagent, I thought you said in front of a jury, they would see malingering. VS a jerk (something to that effect). And I want to point out I received the highest score for lack of malingering "0" - but that doesn't matter, does it? It's percertions that matter. That is what just scares me. I am also frightened that at moments I will be extremely articulate - and then, be a total burn out, with the judge screaming at me- expecting a normal response, when I blank out.

My attorney is 500 an hour. My paralegal is 350 an hour. I am afraid to dial the phone. I have simple basic questions that turn into an hour on the phone. I get off base, or the discussions tend to get lengthy and dissected. She hasn't been prone to answer a direct question on email. I will talk to her about this, because it's the best learning method for me.
Yasu can mean "hi" or "good-by" "welcome" all sorts of things in Greek, depending on how you express it in tone, and the curcumstances, as well as your age (young people through the sour "Yasu" around more, at least, I've noticed).

Yass-sas means hello in Greek, like the way you would answer the telephone. A formal hello greeting.

Yasu - more "punk" greeting.

That's my read on it from living around a full blooded Greek for 30plus years, and 4 trips to Greece.
Yasu,

I'm going to be super direct and try to stay on point, so bear with me and forgive me if it sounds abrupt in any way. However you said you preferred directness and to avoid going on tangents...so here we go.

Originally Posted By: Yasu
On malingering, 25. In required forensic psychological examinations, I seem to score a big zero in malingering. I get so ticked off at those tests. If they would just give me a second chance at it!!!!!???? I used to be a master test taker - but none of my techniques are applicable on their crazy tests! I swear the girl must have made these tests at home as a craft project!

My entire dissertation was the determining the validity and reliability of a diagnotic measurement instrument. Can you imagine how infuriating it was to fail after fail after fail their crazy tests? The tester gal kept changing test topics, and I didn't know if I was coming or going. I lodged complaints with the forensic psychiatrist to no avail. Fail, fail, fail, wrong, wrong, wrong. That is all I heard from that testing girl. 3 days - nothing but negative feedback. What the heck do you expect?


NONE of this^^^ is relevant to the point I was making. IT's ALL a tangent.

I simply said that if there is surveillance -it MIGHT be related to the disability claimed OR that you cannot work, which affects money issues for your husband

AND furthermore, "malingering" is, realistically the worst accusation that could be made at a TRIAL ...

but you seem to be getting treatment for something, bi-polar 2 or otherwise,
so some sort of illness is apparent to medical professionals,

AND, your h sounds like HE would be a terrible witness for himself.

So at a trial, you have less to fear than he does, in my opinion. That's what I meant.

Make sense?
Thank you for your response 25.

I believe I admitted to going off on a tangent or something similar to your previous post, so there is no need to hammer the coffin nails any deeper.

I respect you have your act together, and am humbled by the fact that you respond to me.

Please factor in the number of drugs I am on, (now including Adderall, another 150 Welbutrin, and 30 resperel). Actually, the meds have been helpful the last two days. I ask you also to factor in that I am to be on trial May 21. There is an ungodly amount of papers due on Friday - which, surprisingly, with my PA, we are on top of.

To complicate my life, I have tenants for the rental that I poured myself and my money into for the last 6 months. Now OC wants to hassle me about every dimension of the pre-lease, tenants, terms, etc.

Ok. So I went on a tagent and you pinched me on each bloody test.

Your statement that took me to the tangent (and perhaps I misunderstood) was something to the effect of the jury's potential response to performed "malingering" VS "being a jerk.". I assumed you were attributing the "malingering to me - as a win. My point is giving you some background on the actual testing for malingering was to demonstrate for you that it is never really a "Win," as you so caviliarily put it (sorry, I can't spell).

And yes, one with my training is between a rock and a hard place. I don't know if I'm providing you a reasonable understanding, or just plain defensiveness. Probably in the middle, my dear.

This is a tough time for me. I'm struggling. I have fear of the system, for the very reasons just explained. You developed a wrong impression of me. Proof is in the pudding. That is exactly my fear.
Also, 25, you must realize that since recently finding out about the trial, my hopes are pretty much demolished. And yes, I get it, I wasn't supposed to have any hopes or expectations. Right.

My physical and mental reaction to this announment of a trial date might not be a big deal to you, but it has me mortified, and in a manic spin - so, so sorry for the tangents. It's a manic kind of thing. The other option is silence. Which do you think is best?
I'm sorry 25, barely anything makes sense to me.
Tonight is so rough. Cricicize all you wish. Find every consisentency in those small boxes that I can barely follow. I am surely capable of sparing with you any day of the week, but I am terribly wounded right now. My mind is not at best functuncting, as sure you sense. Can you advise with this in mind rather than sparring?
Hi Yasu,

I have read your sitch and I hope everything turns out for the best for you. My first language is Greek and I can verify that Yasu means hello/good bye.

"mythos kalos" means "good legend". Mythos is used to describe a legend rather than a real story... Hope this helps...

I really admire your patience, knowing that your H has an OW and still fighting for 4 years! You give me courage... I am only 8 months since Dday and it seems that I am ready to give up. I hope to find the strength that you have to continue. Have a nice day! smile
Originally Posted By: Yasu
Tonight is so rough. Cricicize all you wish. Find every consisentency in those small boxes that I can barely follow. I am surely capable of sparing with you any day of the week, but I am terribly wounded right now. My mind is not at best functuncting, as sure you sense. Can you advise with this in mind rather than sparring?


Honestly I don't know how to respond to you. In my opinion, I said nothing critical to you. There was zero "sparring". I don't know what you are talking about or referring to.

I gave you reassurances that in my opinion (and I am a lawyer) you have little to fear at a trial, compared to your husband. The reasons were discussed in my post to you.

Not sure how to proceed.

As for your question about you either being manic versus being silent and which I would suggest you choose--

if you mean in life in general, I'd say find a balance. Presumably the meds are for that.

If you mean at trial,
let your lawyer do ALL the talking unless/until they ask you a question.
The new medications, (that would put a hours down), have had a great effect. I am so happy I tried the Adderall. I was really afraid of it, as I had it years ago for axils ADHD, and it made me a jittery mess.

But, Dr. Psychiatrist urged me to at least try one pill, and I did, with my assistant here. It was like a miricle. No jitters or nerviousness at all. I've kept my mind on our task at hand, and we got it done before the deadline - normally, I have been known to procrastinate and catastophie one of those financial document productions for weeks, maybe months.

This time, one and a half days, period. I had help, but I knew what to have my helper do. With the extra 150 welbutrin, I'm not as depressed, but that could just be cause I was totally busy ALL day. I am so glad I listened to the doctor. That Adderall is exactly what I needed to balance out all this other stuff. As well, the dosage was surely reduced, as I weigh 50 pounds less than when I had a problem with this Adderal, and sort of turned against it.

And all other ADHD medications are putting me to sleep all day. Well, I hope this feeling continues. Tomorrow, I'm taking a trip to the rental house to camp for awhile, re-vamp all the electrical sockets and wall switches with new guts, and meet my new renters.

Thank for your advice 25, and please excuse any rudeness or abruptness in my previous post. I come here with extreme baggage. People that come to the site are all shapes, colors, sizes, and conditions. One-size-does-not-fit-all.

That is why I'm often perplexed that rather than listening and guiding - gently, (folks that could be emotionally on edge), that often I see some abrupt statements such as: "what are you coming to this forum to achieve?". "why would you want to be with that person if he did those things (anything from abandonment to cheating).?

You have said you are a lawyer several times. What kind of law do you practice? I would like to know that. I may have an illness, but I do have extensive credentials and accomplishments myself; but that does not mean I absorb the MWD material any faster than anyone else. There are an unlimited number of variables that effect how one can absorb and apply DB. This is only complicated by the fact that DB is flexible. Further, the gentle advisor might bear in mind that words and phrases such as love, unconditional love, detachment, withdrawal, giving-up, hope, denial, etc, have a multitude of definitions ingrained within us more deeply than MWD.

We must have words to define our theories. Theories that are for practice in the real world must be recognizable. For the purposes of this theory in practice, we use these terms and define them as such. Fine.

I feel we should not be so expectant for newbies, like Broken and myself, to be required to articulate in DeeBee-ese, exactly what we are at the site for. The way you state it, 25, it's like you're gonna drop us if we don't have the right answer.

I wrote about my initial perceptions of this site early on one of Broken's early threads. I was not totally alone in my perception. But I did get the lyrics wrong on the Beatles song.

No offense 25. Just another Gal's perception. Yas
Originally Posted By: Yasu
The new medications, (that would put a hours down), have had a great effect. I am so happy I tried the Adderall. I was really afraid of it, as I had it years ago for axils ADHD, and it made me a jittery mess.
-----
---

Thank for your advice 25, and please excuse any rudeness or abruptness in my previous post. I come here with extreme baggage. People that come to the site are all shapes, colors, sizes, and conditions. One-size-does-not-fit-all.

That is why I'm often perplexed that rather than listening and guiding - gently, (folks that could be emotionally on edge), that often I see some abrupt statements such as: "what are you coming to this forum to achieve?". "why would you want to be with that person if he did those things (anything from abandonment to cheating).?


I asked you how we can help you. That is not what I see as abrupt, so much as direct. And it keeps you on task w/figuring out what YOUR GOAL is here.


I came here 6 years ago, sometimes just to whine/bitch about my h. Someone very direct asked me if that was helping my marriage much...and I realized it was just keeping me stuck in my anger. I personally needed the direct approach.

THEY asked me what I asked you which is, "how can we help you?" Kept me focussed on finding solutions, not rehasing the past or repeating my list of grievances against my h.

If I wanted to merely vent here, I could. It is allowed.

But if someone wants to DB then that means CHANGE and that's a different story.


You have said you are a lawyer several times.


"several times"? Hmmm. I say it only b/c you have such extreme legal fears that I wanted to allay.

What kind of law do you practice? I would like to know that.

why? This isn't about me or my professional credentials. There is no competition here.

I may have an illness, but I do have extensive credentials and accomplishments myself; but that does not mean I absorb the MWD material any faster than anyone else.

all the more reason for us to stay solution based, wouldn't you agree? And I did notice your academic credentials which you have mentioned. No problem. I get it. This is new to you, sometimes seems counter-intuitive, but you are a quick study.


There are an unlimited number of variables that effect how one can absorb and apply DB. This is only complicated by the fact that DB is flexible. Further, the gentle advisor might bear in mind that words and phrases such as love, unconditional love, detachment, withdrawal, giving-up, hope, denial, etc, have a multitude of definitions ingrained within us more deeply than MWD.


I personally posted a short piece for you on detachment, which you said you liked. That's it.

I don't use the term "unconditional love" here at all b/c it is SO misunderstood/misused, and I don't think I used the word "denial" either. Perhaps someone else did.


We must have words to define our theories. Theories that are for practice in the real world must be recognizable. For the purposes of this theory in practice, we use these terms and define them as such. Fine.

I feel we should not be so expectant for newbies, like Broken and myself, to be required to articulate in DeeBee-ese, exactly what we are at the site for. The way you state it, 25, it's like you're gonna drop us if we don't have the right answer.


Sounds as if you feel defensive about my directness (and or someone else's since you attribute some comments to me that I did not make).

But If so, then another veteran may be able to help you more. That is not a threat to "drop" you so much as me wanting to go where I am most useful.

And btw, I focussed on your legal fears b/c you brought them up in your subject's title.

I wrote about my initial perceptions of this site early on one of Broken's early threads. I was not totally alone in my perception. But I did get the lyrics wrong on the Beatles song.

No offense 25. Just another Gal's perception. Y as


I have posted to Broken on his thread. He speaks well for himself.

(For what it's worth, I have no recall of the Beatles song you quoted or who commented on the lyrics. I don't know what you are talking about).
to repeat for emphasis,


the title of your thread has the word "TRIAL" in it... it got my attention and

a 3rd party asked me to look into your thread

b/c of your LEGAL concerns. Hope that helps you understand why I'd even mention it.
Dear 25,
Repeat, repeat, repeat with your emphasis. What area of law do you practice in? Why don't you answer that question? It has nothing to do with ego, or one upsmanship, at least on my part. For God's sake, no matter my credentials, I have surely been psychologically disabled for at least a decade, and to think deeply about any matter is quite strenuous. I'm not interested at all in competing with you, merely, I'm just fasinated by your apparent competence in advising me on a jury's potential response to my situation as posed. I am just curious what background gives you such knowledge, especially, when you have no idea where or which county I reside. Answer a straight question for once. I more than answer yours.
Yasu, I really think 25 is honestly trying to help you. You seem to be very defensive. This place here is about supporting and helping. 25 has a restored marriage. She has a lot of wisdom and good advise. Maybe I shouldn't get in the middle of this, but we all need the help we get on this board, it is really helping me stay same. Take care.
Yes, I completely agree with you hopeless. I really wish I had not reacted the way I did. I am offering my apologies to you 25.

In the future I will be very clear on the help I need. Thank you. Yasu
I've got an idea. A last resort. But I'm not sure there is anything to last resort with. Oh, dear. I actually read about the wedding ring option a fee times here and there.

I could send it to him as a "I throw in the towel" gesture. Which, ultimately, I have no choice but to do. My nose is at the grindstone preparing for trial on May 21.

I've just rounded up all the paperwork to support about $3500 he owes me in expenses he should have paid as ordered by th Court. He will not like recieving that notice. It was so complicated, and really, I didn't want trouble. But I desperately need to pay down my credit cards, to make room to live on my own as a single person. And he is not going to get by with this, not that I am in trial prep mode.

I have the new medication that is giving me energy, but causing me to act more picululiar than usual. I have the $12 assistant that has helped tremendously - especially, since I'm more focused for a few hours at a time. We are caught up on tasks for attorney - and beginning the update of the DRFA which is a detailed financial statement for the court.

I have another similar helper assisting on the rental. So I've done a good job deigating. But the side effect of the medication (which is essentially anfedimines) is that I have no appetite. And I'm not losing weight either. Drag.

So last night I boiled eggs, cut up tomatoes, made carrot soup. Stuff is prepared, and I had my three meals today and feel a lot better.

To those I have insulted, I do apologize from my heart. I am not myself. And will not try to propose excuses other than that.

So, my idea to return the simple little band I wore on my finger for 26 years, hmmm. I also have a 24 carrot large gold coin pendant Greek mother gave me. As well as a little ring from Greek father. I feel like returning those, as he has never told them any of my side of our issues, I am sure of that.

Another item I have is 24 carrot gold ring with a large, unusual ruby, that husband tossed at me when he retuned from another of his trips to Greece, that he had taken without me. This particular one was during our 20th anniversary. He had bought such a crappy ring before he left, and it had so many defects, that, I was really disgusted - and saw it as a buy-off anyway. (That is one of my issues - perfectionism.) And I know when a product is a cheap second - and that ring certainly was. He returned it and got a gold chain for himself.

I know I was wrong to reject the gift. But the defects in the gift slapped me in the face like the defect in the marriage celebration of 20 years, that he would leave me behind yet again for a five week vacation while I patiently waited at home.

That is why he threw the gold and ruby ring at me when he got back. He resented getting it for me. It probably cost more, and it was centaunly lovely.

So, these items are just bad reminders anyway. However they could be used as bargaining chips, but I hate thing like that. But know I must, as a trial is advasarial by nature.

The question is, would this last resort make any difference anyway? Whether just the wedding ring, or all the pieces, as a symbol of totally dismissing myself from him. It must be done without expectation, and I fully understand that. I am interested in any thought about the reurn of these items prior to the trial. Please advise only on this issue, if you will.

I cannot focus on any other matters but the trial preperation and getting tenants in the rental. Thank you in advance. Yas
Yassu you sound great today. I would discuss the jewelry issue with your L and stop worrying. You know 24 karot gold is not usual in the US. It is a better quality gold.
Thank you Rick1963!

You know, sometimes, the doctor hits it just right! Who would have ever thought anfedimines would be useful for something? The new stuff, Adderall, is speed, but in my system, it just makes me pay better attention. Doesn't feel like speed at all. Thank you so much for responding.

The little jewelry pieces are not really worth anything. Just sentimental value, at least the coin piece his Mother gave me.

I'm prestty sure I wanna stir the soup one last time, at least with the wedding ring. I think it would make a closure statement for me. But we all know...it's a last resort technique, and it's all I got!

So good to hear from you Rick, once I'm through this paper mess, I will be able to focus elsewhere! Bless you! Yas
Yasu - we've not heard from you in several weeks. How are you doing? Hope all is well.
Hello 2thepoint,

Good thing I checked the site today! Thank very much for noticing! I have been working dilgently on paperwork to prepare for the trial. There are so many records I have to produce.

I have a very generous person that helps me for only 12 an hour, he has saved my skin in helping me get coordinated. The new medicine I'm taking is very helpful - it does have a host of side effects.

My 12 dollar assistant is now coming over almost every morning for 1/2-1 hour to make sure I am following a normal schedule of getting up early (7:30 ugh!), taking my meds early as possible in morning, vitamins, and BREAKFAST. My assignments are posted for the day, then inspection the next morning! Oh dear, when that phone rings at 7:30, I know I have to get up and get dressed before he shows up.

My night owl days are over! I used to have the windows blacked out in the room so no light could come in. Well, the coach order me to disappear all of that, on both floors, my house is full of sunshine. The bright sun is waking my dogs and me against will.

I feel like I am productive, not like normal, but certainly better than being so overwhelmed that I accomplish nothing. Then we have a posting system on the door that shows my accomplishments. Our goal in April is for me to have the courage to attend the neighborhood bar-b-q alone later this month.

That is a huge goal for an agoraphobic! Well, that's it for now. Yasu
Yass u are a great lady. Hope u are having a good Sunday
Hey Rick1963,

Such a nice compliment! I accept! So good to hear from you! I have to get more in touch with the site! Yas
Hi DB'ers!

I keep look'in in! Probably time to start a new thread, a simplified construct of the sitch, and where it stands now. For the first time, I believe I could actually narrow my story to that essence - I think it's progress! It demonstrates the whole thing is not so overwhelming now. I have picked my direction once at the fork in the road, and have been acting accordingly. I feel better these days. Hope all of you are well! I've learned so much here! Later, Yas
Hi Yas!

So great to hear from you and that you are doing well, sounds like have made great progress in the last month, Congratulations! Keep your chin up and keep up the good work! :-)
Hmmm. Hard times. My mom had perhaps the final accident - another fall in the house result in six hip and leg fractures and arm fracture. No one has wanted me there - my alchoholic brother has been in charge.

It looks pretty dire this time. I have just learned her house taxes and secondary insurance have been unpaid for some time. Brother's story keeps changing. 92 year old mom now hiding food in her mouth - slowly going downhill in nursing home.

I don't know if I should rescue brother or not - however, for the second time, I have called upon social services. First time, for caregiver neglect, now, regarding her estate, to get to the bottom of it.

To relate this to the divorce - I reached out to H for advice. Of course no response to my calls.

We were to have a trial on May 21. All my paperwork was in on time March 1. Can u believe he made excuse after excuse not to have his papers and financials on our business into us - even though it was his side that set the trial date! In December it will be four years trying to get a divorce. The cost insane. He seems to want a divorce - he certainly has access to a competent account and CPA that regularly work for the restauant - as papers, p & l's, etc., are to be in on a monthly basis with the franchise - this is a requirement that is followed.

However - we cannot seem to get him to hand over tax records for last two years, budget sheets, etc. So we can proceed with trial. Interesting.

It is not a good idea for us to put him in jail with contempt as that keeps him from running the business. At the same time - the judge wants us to work these things out - and my attorney wants us to always appear cooperative.

So, we requested a continuance, and judge ordered attorneys to agree on a date (again).

Meanwhile, why, why or why, do I see him observing me when I am out? It is not often I go anymore due to this. It was not long ago he pulled in the driveway here too one morning.

He wants nothing to do with me in all other respects from what I can decern. I have been excellent at staying away from him. I have not driven past our restaurant in over two years. My only issue is his cell phone number, when a problem or issue arises.

I would NEVER call the restaurant. No way. It is the cell phone number that is a temptation to me. Almost like it is a little door that remains open. I once sent him the money (2 years worth) to block my number, so as to prevent me from reaching out in these weak moments. He kept my money and never did it.

I even blocked my number - but it is too easy for me to unblock - and that "little door" - I keep imaging - is speaking to me. How dumb can I be after 3.5 years?!?!?!

After the way of life I've developed, I could never go back to being a normal wife again - that is for sure! I am a true artist at heart - and live like one now. No more nice nice homemade cookies around here anymore. That ain't ever gonna happen again. I'm a totally different person - more like myself than in thirty years. It would be difficult for anyone to live with my projects laying around, and my strange schedules and habits. If he saw how I had the place decorated - he would have a coronary.

I have not laid eyes on him, really, other than spotting him in my neighborhood, in a year and a half, last we were in court Jan. 2011. I haven't sat at a table, or met him - eye to eye since Feb. 2010.

I would say the messages I have left on his cell phone have contributed to that. I want him to have my number blocked as a demonstration that he really wants nothing to do with me. It is not a big deal - his contacts can be re-routed to the restaurant. This is all I ask - that is, if he must make the divorce so darn protracted. I know, I'm asking alot. Or, am I really just asking for him to cut this last connection?

I do wish I could exercise better self control. That would change everything. And actually, my self control has improved drastically. I have to admit, when something like the posibilty of losing my mom, or my brother perhaps having an issue with the estate - this is the sort of thing that gets me weak. H really knows this family dynamic - it's times like this I so miss him.

Hope all you DBer's are well! Yas
I want to send a buddy a private message, but the reply says I'm disabled. Why is that? Do u need a certain number of posts to do PM's? Please advise. Thanks, Yas
No, Yasu, I don't think it will let anyone send PMs anymore. Nor will it let you edit, either. I remember when it would, though.
They apparently are afraid people will tell their phone numbers and other personal info, then hit the edit button after the other person gets the info.

By the way, I have been reading your posts, and I wish you luck.

vc
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