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Posted By: YankeeCandle I just want to be friends... - 02/27/12 10:34 AM
Hi everyone,

I thought I had posted yesterday, but it hasn't popped up on the board. Thank you for so much information and support on this board.

My H separated on New Year's Eve. We were in the process of reconciling, and I was a little taken aback seeing as we were actually moving in a positive direction. We had a few small spats during the X-mas break, and I think he just couldn't see that anything would every change. Mind you, our spats were nothing like they were before. That was pre-DR.

Now that he is separated, he keeps saying he wants to be friends (without benefits). He would come over and we'd just hang out. I was getting awfully confused, so I told him this had to stop now. I stopped seeing him and we stopped making arrangements for dinner and so forth. We definitely still love each other, but he just doesn't see how we can live in harmony - except as friends.

We are in touch now only via email, and I am as positive as possible.

Has anyone else had this friends thing? How best to see this new aspect? I so want to be more with him when we are seeing each other, but this friends thing only is really getting on my nerves. What does the friends thing mean?

Any advice would be welcomed.

Thanks!
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: I just want to be friends... - 02/27/12 03:14 PM
Hi Yankee. tells how old you are, children, how long together, and what were his complainst about you. Please get the DR book and read it. The friend thing is all script. They all say the same thing.Read Sandis rules below and follow them. Post often as u are in moderation at first.

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.

21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.

33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: I just want to be friends... - 02/27/12 03:15 PM
I noticed you have a second thread please stick one only so we can better follow you.
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: I just want to be friends... - 02/29/12 02:50 AM
^
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: I just want to be friends... - 02/29/12 02:43 PM
How are you doing today candle?
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/02/12 03:44 PM
^
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/11/12 12:11 AM
Hi everyone - first of all sorry about the confusion regarding threads! I am a bit confused at how this works. I shall stick to this one.

OK - I just broke 1,2,3,4,6,7, 9 and 11. Whew!

Something in me today just shut down about all this. He keeps reconfirming that he does not want a relationship with me anymore because he needs to find himself, and he hasn't been living in his integrity, and that he can only do it alone. This is not only coming from him, but also the therapist of course. He does seem dead set in his ways and I know he can be very stubborn.

I have sent him emails just praising him though, and he responds very well to those.

I have read DR, one of the rules is lots of patience. My mother agrees. I need to have lots of patience. OK, so no more emails, no more anything from me. The only problem is that he is the main purse so every time I need extra cash, I have to call him about that. That is bothering me, but it is the only contact we have at the moment.

I don't think I'll have to act as if I am getting on with my life, I feel a desire to just get on with my life smile

Once I start falling out of love, then there really is no turning back for me.

Thanks so much for all your support here, and that this forum is here at all. I feel listened to. That will really help whenever I get an urge to email him - so thank you again!

I am 40, been married for 17 years. no children. Separated since 1 Jan.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/11/12 12:23 AM
His primary complaints about me were my PMS and outbursts, and when he would do something I would not easily forgive him and finally the finances really bothered him. I never brought in as much as he did and he said it was something that grated on him. I worked really hard getting my PMS under control (alternative therapy primarily) and that is a tough one to be honest. I also worked on my outbursts - never got physical, never got verbally abusive and never any name calling. It was more like I would not let go of an issue and could drag it out all day long, getting moody. So, I started to work on that too. I did succeed quite a lot in the last 6 months. Even he said so. I also decided to retrain in a different direction to help my career and money making prospects for myself, so am a full time student again for another year. I had hoped he would be patient. I guess it was too little too late.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/11/12 12:38 AM
I wonder if I've totally blown it. Maybe just delayed things another few months with all my email activity?

Ok - I promise myself to just stay quiet, be patient, not send him another email unless he emails me first. You are right, it is counter-intuitive.

This is tough!
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/11/12 11:22 AM
It's taking some time for my posts to come up on the this topic. I posted yesterday and still nothing popping up. Hope this comes out today.

I am in a tricky situation with having to call my husband for some assistance. I had promised myself to not be in touch with him, but I got a flat tire, I live in the middle of nowhere, and the tire people can't make it for a couple of days. And no, I don't have a spare tire.

So, I asked my neighbour for help to get into town to pick up some things, but then I saw an email from them saying the grandmother just passed away last night.

I just started getting very emotional this morning, so I called my husband to ask him to come by and just help a bit. I feel so pathetic for feeling like a person who can't be independent and strong. I don't know what has happened to me!

It's very hard to think of your partner as no longer your partner when the sh*t hits the fan. I'm getting some harsh lessons here.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/13/12 05:28 PM
I have been sending posts from 3 or 4 days ago to this thread but I see that nothing is showing up. Can you please let me know what might be the problem.

I just got an email from my husband about getting a mediator involved. I'm panicking a bit and would really like some advice on the next steps.

Thanks!
Posted By: Cadet Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/14/12 02:34 PM
Originally Posted By: YankeeCandle
Hi there - thanks for this amazing forum.

I am hoping for some pointers now as I just received an email from my estranged husband who says he needs to find himself, that he has not been living in his integrity and that he needs to do it alone (therapist advice). We've been married for 17 years. We've been separated for 3 months now - on and off for the last 2 years - and I'm pretty fed up. He wants to be just friends now. I feel like throwing in the towel, want to stop talking to him, thinking of him and just get on with my own life. I read DB and it was truly wonderful. I really wonder if it will help though at this point. Any encouragement would be most welcome. Thanks!


Sorry you are on moderation, keep posting and you should be off soon. Here is one of the missing posts above.

I am confused as to what the story is as this post conflicts with the one above it.

Let him control the contact for right now IMHO.
Posted By: Milady Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/18/12 07:40 PM
Yankee, I am sorry you are going through this. My husband is also very insistent that we be friends. He has also been insistent that he is going to file papers since October and so far hasn't so maybe there is hope for both of us. Just remember that either way you will be ok. Maybe you could suggest going to marriage counseling in place of a mediator? I know our MC also works with people who are in the process of divorce to get through it.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/18/12 11:25 PM
Hi Cadet -

Yes, I have gotten back on track now and am following the guidelines now. I am letting him control the contact, and he is contacting me more now. He does talk a lot still about divorce, and it can get a bit negative at times. But, at least he keeps talking and talking, so I let him talk and I don't argue about it. He is insisting on getting the financial side of things organised. I explained that it is not exactly on my priority list since it is a painful process, but that I will get to it eventually.

Otherwise, I try to keep conversations or texts or emails in the present day, and what is going on in the here and now. That is far more uplifting to me since I am enjoying my life.

I am enjoying just getting myself out there and busy and doing my own thing, and hanging out with friends and going to parties. I had stopped doing all that stuff for a while, and getting back into is so much fun.

I feel much stronger smile I do see that I will need a ton of patience though, but I will continue to enjoy myself throughout!

Thanks for the guidance.
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/18/12 11:55 PM
You sound great. Follow the 37 rules play with them a little to see what is working or not. Post daily. We are here for you
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/19/12 08:07 PM
Thanks Ricki!

I had a pretty good day. I guess I have one question that I'm a bit stumped on how to handle. He is wanting to talk about divorce and the financial settlement. How do I handle that? My instinct is to not talk about it, but he wants to (which is why he is getting in touch a lot these days). Any suggestions on that?
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/19/12 08:11 PM
I did get a little down today though as he sent an email saying that he knows what his position is and that's that. That was tough - and I haven't responded to him. I'm trying to keep things light.
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/19/12 08:15 PM
My W refuses to talk about the D and goes on as if it is not happening. I am not an expert at this but was told early on to cooperate and let her go. I will say to go ahead and talk to him about it but only if you can maintain composure and not get into an argument. I hope others will chime in with other advice. Have you consulted a L? I would and don't tell your H. That is just for you to know your rights. So that is 2 good days you have had. That is great keep that up.
Posted By: labug Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/19/12 08:16 PM
Do you live in a no fault state?

A consult with an attorney before you talk with H would probably be your best course of action at this point.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/19/12 08:28 PM
Yeah, it's pretty much the same as a no fault country. I have spoken to an attorney and know my rights already. I guess my question had more to do with emotionally handling that type of discussion more than anything else.
Posted By: Grmpy_Mnky Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/19/12 08:29 PM
I had the same in my sitch. My W badgered me every couple days early on. He wants the D, let him work for it. No need to be accomodating when it comes to this. Let him know know you are busy this week. Maybe next week you "will have more time."

This is the worst part - the first several weeks. Hang in there!
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/19/12 08:30 PM
Thanks Ricki
Posted By: Redo Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/19/12 09:11 PM
YankeeCandle: Just read through your sitch. Sorry for being on this rough road.

The good thing is that you are working on your self. That's the best you can do. And believe me, it does pay off emotionally. The day your happiness is in your control and not outside of you is when people will wanna be around you (i am sure this applies to your H as well).

As for your H's talking on the D details. There's not much you can do to control that. You have pick up courage and talk to him if wants to. Keep calm and talk details. Though it can feel like hell, know inside that this is NOT the end. Believe me, it is never over. My W and I were about 1 week away from signing the final decree before things slowed down.

However i will say that it would be good to dig into the fundamental cause for your R to disintegrate. try to figure out your role in the R's demise. Then try working on each of them. Do a 180 on each. You earlier identified your mood swings. Try to work on them. Not for your H, but for yourself. Become a stronger and happier person. Then your H will have second thoughts on why is trying to move away from you.

But as i said, don't do all these for anyone but yourself.

Good luck!
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/19/12 11:10 PM
Thanks myKarma.

Yes, I am 180 on my habits. I have been putting my pride to the side and been incredibly open and sincere, and doing more honest communication without blame. It has been a wonderful journey because I am actually applying it to many of my interactions and it works well, very well. So, I am benefitting from this process.

Regarding the R: to be honest, there aren't major issues that can't be resolved. It was just the usual stuff nothing major that I can see - but this is my perspective. He however sees it differently. Without realising it I think he is going through some kind of identity crisis. It's like he wants a divorce but does not want to end the relationship - and is wanting to turn it into a friendship - just to exercise his will. He still loves me, and I still love him - we continue to say it regularly to each other. He perceives that I have been the one 'in control' of the relationship - but from my perspective we have both been in control. The biggest difference is in temperments. He's been a people pleaser and I tend not to be that way. He hates confrontation, and I have never had a problem with that.

He is stuck in our past, and has lost trust that things could work out because 2 years ago I laid the bomb on him of wanting to separate. He has not recovered from that. So, we have reversed roles now which is what allows me to be more understanding than I would normally be. Back then, I too was stuck in our past and couldn't see how things could work and I too was adamant that it should end. This is the crux of why this thing is moving in the way it is.

What got me to change my mind? His incredible steadfastness and strength. That he finally was listening to me. Not much had changed mind you, but I was looking for validation (I know see) more than anything else. So, I have begun to listen - truly listen - to him, and I see that the one thing he wants more than anything is peace and harmony. I think he thinks that the best way to get it is by not being together anything. So, that is what I am working on - creating as much peace as possible.

Except that now he is trying to apply 'peace and harmony' to the divorce process and that is a big hurdle for me. But maybe that's exactly what I need to do. Still, I need to look after myself financially, but how to achieve peace when there are differences in the way things should go?
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/19/12 11:56 PM
Yankee,

I find you inspirational because you do seem like you are at peace. I think my H is going through the same identity crisis or quarter life crisis, because he just wants to start his whole life over and is not happy with anything in it. He just decided to get rid of me first....don't understand because our relationship is not that bad (even on my end)....well before the EA/PA that he just had three weeks ago! We had normal communication issues and in law issues, but nothing that I can see that can't be fixed.

I need to keep telling myself that this could take time and just like for you, it's not the end until it's over..right??
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/20/12 12:50 AM
Yes Stephanie - it's ain't over til it's over! I feel that very much in my situation.


I had a dream this morning about an old boyfriend of mine. It was the boyfriend that I had before my husband. In the dream, it finally ended. I don't know what exactly ended, but the feeling was just no longer there.

that's when I realised my current R is not over because I still love him. It will be a bumpy ride for a while, but this has not been fully decided. All I can do is my best, and that is what I will feel at peace with in myself. Yes of course I feel unhappy about how things are going at the moment, and I have moments of fear, but I try not to dwell too much. I have been through enough in life to know the importance of focussing on the possibilities, because miracles can happen.

BTW, my old boyfriend used to be someone who never knew what he had until he lost it (me). I did complain that he needs to stop looking at other women, and stop talking about his ex-girlfriend and so forth. I was sick and tired of it, and that's when I fell out of love. He was stuck in his own past. 5 years after I finished it, he emailed me to say that he was still in love. I told him that I was married and in love with my husband so don't even bother (obviously I said it in the nicest possible way but firmly). I told my husband and shared the email with him.

I'm concerned that my H is now expressing some of that old boyfriend's traits. There is a danger I might fall out of love if he carries on, and this I am more afraid of than anything else to be honest. I loved loving my H, and I loved being loved by him.
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/20/12 02:00 AM
Keep holding on to your feelings Yankee! This is your M and I completely understand why you want to save it. It is true that all we can do is our best and if in the end, our H don't want the best of us, then they didn't deserve us in the first place. I love my H dearly and that's why I'm trying so hard to give him his space. I have not texted or called him since our date yesterday and am debating about when I should do it next. I don't want to be too pushy and I know that if he's not calling me, then obviously he does not want to talk to me, but then I also know he is avoiding life in general. I just don't know what to do...

Try to not be afraid of the future...just keep being the best you!
Posted By: Redo Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/20/12 03:57 PM
Giving him his space i think is a good idea for now. He needs to find himself. Especially if he does not like confrontation. I think there's something on his mind that he is unable to express and thinks that separating would solve his problems. It might for now. But he's gonna run into the same issues even with another person. But that is something he would need to realize. In the long term, he should be able to express himself to you without feeling that he's walking on eggshells.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/20/12 09:23 PM
Hi Karma - yes this is my hope! That he can express himself without feeling like he's on eggshells (which he has said a lot). I'm a strong personality, and he often says "with power comes responsibility" to me. So yes, I am being accepting of his need for space. I can fiercely accept, just as much as I can fiercely argue. What this process is teaching me is that I can be both gentle and strong - using my strength in different ways. I like it very much.

We have been talking a lot over the weekend. Yesterday, he emailed me something that was upsetting and worrying. Saying how lost he is etc. I offered him support. Otherwise, I just let him do the contact. He needs to find himself and I can certainly understand that process. It's a hard process though, and I did my whole, "I need to find myself' thing a couple of years ago. He was there to support me entirely. He says he needs to be alone - is that a man thing?
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/21/12 11:08 PM
I don't have much to report today. H emailed me a joke today. I responded with "haha!". It was sweet.

I do have a personal coach helping me on a personal level. We talked today about the importance of 'reframing' my position, and also about how to deal with oppositional behavior - and what not to do. He brought in a sales analogy, which helps people bring their defenses down. I feel a bit overloaded with people management skills, so I'm taking a break from it all for a little while. I do find it absolutely fascinating and I am putting many of the skills to practice in my daily life. My relationships are improving as a result. I still slip, but overall, I see positive changes. It's good practice but the real test will come when (if) my H ever decides to reconcile.
Posted By: zig Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/22/12 04:54 AM
hi yankeecandle, i just read your thread and i want to say that it was very calming and inspiring to me to read how you are handling your sitch.

i'd love to hear more about what your coach said about reframing your position, if you have the time to write about it


you sound so calm and poised in your descriptions and i feel encouraged to do the same

thank yo
zig
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/22/12 02:33 PM
Hi Zig - well thank you for your lovely compliment blush I have my moments of panic for sure, but I try to keep myself as balanced as possible. The coach I am talking to is pro-relationship/marriage. I am ever so blessed to have found him, so I very much appreciate his guidance. He suits me well because I do believe in universal powers, and so does he (not necessarily on a religious level, although that is perfectly fine if you do) You could believe in God, or 'the universe' or "The Light" - whatever suits your beliefs. Even if not spiritually inclined, I would imagine that atheists believe that their inner selves guide them - but I'm not sure about that. Anyway...

On Monday, I got an email from my husband that I found very distressing. I emailed him to offer some support and to offer to see him. He said no, and I felt rejected. Bear in mind, I have offered time and effort to him in the resent past since the S and he has tended to turn it down. So, I have since stopped entirely, but this last Monday my humanity instinct just kicked in and I offered.

So, my coach recommended a few exercises:

- EFT tap on the feelings of rejection.
I did and it did work well! If you need the EFT points, youtube has a ton of them. EFT works with all kinds of emotions - despair, hopelessness, worry, anxiety etc. It's free and it's easy!


- Also, that my H is not rejecting me; that his brain is reacting the only way it knows how- he's trying to empower himself in a dis-regulated state. His wounded self is speaking not his "higher self". He feels threatened by his own confusion of wanting to be with you and yet not being able to handle things from a stress perspective.

That reframing just helped my own brain cope better and thus feel more compassionate - which helps with any future interactions.

- Generally, try to reframe things and soften my own interpretations of what I am doing. So, instead of me saying things like "I'm backing off" it can be reframed as "giving space for the universe to work this out". Instead of, "I'm throwing in the towel", another reframe could be: "I'm going to give myself time to allow this relationship to have a chance to heal and myself to find balance".

This helps to allow the space we need to enter, without making any solid YES or NO cutthroat decisions.

Traditionally, I've been a 'yes or no' kind of person, mainly because I just like to get things done. However, this process has really been teaching me the value of patience and trust, and letting go of my control. So, in a crazy way, I'm in gratitude. I wish I could have learned these lessons in a different way, but if this is the way, then so be it. I figure that if I don't learn about this now, later on something else will come my way that will force the lesson on me.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/24/12 06:20 PM
Just checking in. Not much is happening at the moment. I feel a bit sad today, and I really miss my H. We used to watch DVD's on a Saturday and now it's my and my cat. I just miss doing the little things with him. That's all.
Posted By: breakdownbill Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/24/12 06:45 PM
Originally Posted By: YankeeCandle
Just checking in. Not much is happening at the moment. I feel a bit sad today, and I really miss my H. We used to watch DVD's on a Saturday and now it's my and my cat. I just miss doing the little things with him. That's all.


Hi YC

I hear exactly how you are feeling, been feeling the same way myself the past couple of days. When you miss the little things, that seem so huge. Some days you think that, just one genuine hug & a 'how's your day'? would be like winning the lottery. Sometimes I feel like asking this person who is pretending to be my W to take off, so that we can pull ourselves together and be happy.

This is hard, but it's so worth it. I know that deep down for me it might be a long shot my W giving our M another go, but I'd take those odds over any sure thing with anyone. I wish someone would have given me the DR book as a wedding present now - seriously!!

YC - keep the faith, keep your MC going and keep believing. I'm going to keep believing that it will happen and that we get that second chance to be happy with our WAS's.

Every day is different & you never know what tomorrow will bring - stay positive - you're doing great!!

Bill
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/24/12 07:18 PM
Thanks Bill. I really needed to hear that. I definitely feel the emotions of the situation today and yesterday. You are right, it's the little things that are the most memorable.

Sign. Tomorrow is another day smile
Posted By: breakdownbill Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/24/12 09:18 PM
Glad I could help, you're so right about the little things. Sometimes it's good to share these things, just so you know you're not the only one feeling the way you do.

My little girl has just made me LOL she was telling me about ancient Egyptians and said, "you learn something new everyday, you've learned 2 things. So you can have tomorrow off"

Thought I'd share that with you

Bill
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/25/12 09:45 PM
Today, I just felt it was time to call my H. I held off and didn't do it. I wanted to make sure I was doing it for the right reasons. So, I let time pass. I went to see a couple of properties (I'm looking to move), and I nearly fell in love with one. It is much smaller than where I live now, but I do need back into the city so I expect that much. But finding the right spot is always the trick. Today I may have found it. Anyway, I realised then that with all our stuff, I would then need to talk to my H to discuss how to sort that out.

So, I called him to talk about all the practicals - and in the end we talked for about an hour about just about everything else but. It was a VERY pleasant and comfortable conversation, and we caught up on everything that has happened in the week. All the various bits and pieces. I have been missing him terribly, so it was so nice to connect.

We briefly talked about Easter and what we would be doing with it. I will be with my parents. He mentioned he might go see his mother, but he couldn't decide. I just asked if he wanted to, and he truly hadn't decided. So, I just left it. This is a good 180 for me because in the past I would have discussed it at length - all the pros and cons and so forth (my control issues coming out). So, I didn't step in at all this time, and just thought to myself, "It's his life, his decision." I was very proud of myself that I didn't let myself be triggered.

The thing I worry about the most is that from the beginning of our S, he's been saying he wants to be friends. We've always been very good friends - the best of friends. This was a very friendly conversation. No romance or any form of sentimentality - other than us talking about our cats. So, I feel a bit strange because I don't want to be falling in the friends only category. Am I wrong in having that fear do you think?
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/25/12 10:06 PM
PS - he did initially ask if I would be moving to his neighborhood BTW. I thought that was kind of sweet. I also mentioned I would have liked for him to be there at the property since he has a good eye for these things (and he does!). He liked the compliment.
Posted By: Redo Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/26/12 07:07 PM
Quote:
The thing I worry about the most is that from the beginning of our S, he's been saying he wants to be friends. We've always been very good friends - the best of friends. This was a very friendly conversation. No romance or any form of sentimentality - other than us talking about our cats. So, I feel a bit strange because I don't want to be falling in the friends only category. Am I wrong in having that fear do you think?


Nothing wrong with your fear. Eventually you do not want a 'friendly' relationship with your H.

But again, don't be alarmed. It might start with friendship. So that is a start. When things seem to be getting better, you can always make your expectations clear that 'friendship' is not what you seek eventually.

YC: your R with your H seems like mine with my W. My W was strong too and i just like your H. Except in my case, it was my W that filed, causing me to really take a good look at myself.

I think that your H must eventually become strong emotionally. Then he would start feeling good about himself and secure in his R with you. Right now he is very insecure in the R and that is why he is 'running' away.

How he would get to that point...Not sure. It needs to come from within himself or with him seeking some help.

Seems like the root is your H insecurity of lack of confidence. If this is not addressed and if he comes back, you guys could be on the same boat again.

Yup, you are doing good on your control issues. He could be seeing this rethinking his actions.

Good luck!
Posted By: Biker9363 Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/26/12 10:26 PM
I read your thread and am trying to emulate your 'centeredness'. My wife hasn't gone to D yet, but I think we're heading in that direction.

I am working on my 180 and trying to stick to the 37 rules. It's really difficult so kudos to you for staying the course.

Good luck.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/27/12 08:39 PM
Journal Entry:

First of all - mykarma you are VERY correct. I too am convinced that his insecurities have gotten the best of him. I don't know how long it will take him to get out of this state - maybe 2 years, who knows. It's already been about a year of this. But, you know, the crazy thing is that I am willing to go in the direction of divorce if that would help him in exercising his will in life. It is a misguided way of exercising one's will, but to him it might give him a sense of victory. I'm certainly not going to hurry that process along at all, instead, just let him move with his convictions without kicking up a big fuss about it (I'm still a tad uncertain about that though).

Meanwhile, I have been just getting on with my life while he is out 'exercising his will'. I had a look at a rental property that I felt comfortable with. Currently, I am living in our mutual rental property out in the stix. While I love this property for so many reasons (and have told my H so a few times now), I do need to move back into the city because I'm too far out from everyone. Also, I am sick and tired of the commute that takes way too much time out of the day. I hope he doesn't take it badly (given his insecurities). Still, being single again I want to be closer to my family again, and be more available to attend the various events that are always going on. So, I put a bid down for the new property and I will hear tomorrow. Finger's crossed!!

I let my H know that I was looking, and that I put a rental offer down. He wrote back saying what a nice looking property it was etc. Then, he tacked on the end of the email that he spoke to the lawyer who pretty much confirmed what I had said to him re the financial settlement. He was not happy about the law. I hope he realises now that I am not being unfair (or bitter for that matter). I am willing to work with him as long as it is fair - and have told him so. But, I have to look after myself of course too!!

I spoke to him this evening about the move. He seemed genuinely interested and we talked about it at length. He is helping out with the move, and we got into our 'team mode' when organising a big event. We work really well together on that front - and are in total natural synch. We have always been really good with logistics and who does what and when. I love it!! A true partner in many ways. We talked for about an hour, and I felt quite a lot of love in my heart for him. We really are good friends - already. It's the romance I am after as well though smile

We had talked about the Easter break coming up and what he wanted to do. He has finally decided to go see him mother. I don't suggest anything anymore

My fondest desire is this:

I move into my new place, and I really dig into my new life. We have an excellent move (which we will because we are really good at that sort of this). He realises the fun we could have dating again, and that we slowly start up again - SLOWLY. It would be nice for him to take responsibility for his insecurities (that he is currently projecting all over the place), as this might be the sticking point that could make a hell of a lot of work for me.

A girl can dream....
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/27/12 08:51 PM
PS - we had a one hour conversation tonight btw, and there was no D talk or financial settlement discussion. We talked about his job and what he's doing there, and what is going on with him generally. He sounded good. It was a really comfortable and cozy conversation.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/27/12 09:20 PM
He has now been texting me about watching certain channels on TV - a comedy. It's really sweet thinking that he is watching the same thing I am watching. I had to share that here because I don't want to get all gushy with him (too soon).

When I see that I put all my control issues on a leash, life gets easier, and I get lighter.

It reminds me, maybe I will do a list of what works baby steps tomorrow just to keep my motivation up in this process. Has anyone else done that kind of list?
Posted By: breakdownbill Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/27/12 10:49 PM
Originally Posted By: YankeeCandle
PS - we had a one hour conversation tonight btw, and there was no D talk or financial settlement discussion. We talked about his job and what he's doing there, and what is going on with him generally. He sounded good. It was a really comfortable and cozy conversation.


Hi YC

That sounds really positive, talking for that long and it felt comfortable. You are definitely on the right track by taking these baby steps forward.

I've got my fingers crossed for you that things keep getting better.

Bill
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/28/12 02:11 PM
I'm so glad to hear you had a great conversation with your H with no D talk!!

I'm praying for your M!!!
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/28/12 10:02 PM
Thanks hopeandpraying!! I shall put in some prayers for everyone here.

Journal entry: I had a facial today, and enjoyed that very much. Memories started bubbling up though as I was relaxing on the table. When my H and I would go on holiday, we'd usually get facials or other wellbeing treatments together. When on holiday we did soooo much together - like joined at the hip kind of together. It wasn't quite like that though during 'normal' living - what with jobs etc.

Later in the day, I was cooking a wonderful meal for myself, then bang! I started remembering that most of the spices that I have are from our travels.

So, those memories were coming up and I had a little cry. It will help when I get a new place.

He has my juicer there at his place, but that's about it. Oh, some of my things are still there too (clothes), so there is a trace of me there.

I was like, "Was it really so bad that he had to leave?" Well, obviously yes - to him. Then, i started thinking about his reasons for leaving again, and he said things like, "We don't make each other happy." Well, there's no use arguing about it now. Still, I do have to say he was very doom and gloom about it - which is why I feel that he has a protective filter on his perception.

I do get him. I was the one who broke-up our M 1.5 years ago by separating from him. He hasn't recovered since, and has become ultra sensitive and self-protective. Why did I do that? At that time, because he wasn't listening (looking back now, I didn't speak in a way that would allow him to listen). I was the one who felt unappreciated at that time. Now, it's his turn. I feel guilt for starting this whole series of events.

I spoke to my coach today who gave me a good technique to balance out the chakras when these feelings start. So, I will be doing that tonight before bed.

Anyway...

I have plans for the next couple of days - keeping myself busy and social.

I haven't heard about the property I put an offer on. Hopefully I'll get some news this weekend.

Well, my face is very CLEAN! smile
Posted By: breakdownbill Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/29/12 10:37 AM
Hey YC

I hope you get good news about the rental property closer to the city & your friends and family. That would be such a boost for you if that went through.

I'm feeling a bit more positive today, must be something to do with the good weather we are having over here in England (it's very rare to get a week of sunshine over here - ;-) )

I know what your talking about with the insecurities your H is feeling. I'm trying really hard to work on them. I think I'm going to take some self confidence and assertiveness courses in the summer. I think the key for your H just like me is letting go of the guilt and focusing on being a better person. Someone that wants to look their best for their W, who wants her to be proud and admire him, someone who treats their W good, and puts their W's happiness as a priority. Someone who makes you feel special being around them, someone they desire and cherish openly and freely.

This is what I want for my M more than anything, but I'm going to have to be patient with my W and keep working, just like you and you H, until hopefully they are ready to let go of their fear and live through the highs and lows of a M.

All these things that I want, I want them for you YC & I know that when your H wakes up, you are going to make each other so happy and he will be your man for the rest of your lives.

Stay positive & keep your fingers crossed on that property.

Bill
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/30/12 01:13 PM
Hi Bill -

I really hope that I can see myself through this. Some days I feel stronger than other days, and I'm so glad I can just write everything out here instead of sending umpteen emails to my H. I think I will read DB again for extra support today.

So today I am having a slightly shakey day. There has been very little contact between my H and I since Monday - just kind of cold stuff coming from him. My brother was in hospital yesterday and that was pretty tough. He's going to be ok in the end. I texted my H and he was just a bit flippant about it - which caught me 'off guard'. I didn't respond to his flippancy.

So, I'm a bit concerned because early in this process (before DB) I cut myself off from my H in many ways - to guard myself from confusion and hurt. A part of me is just wanting to forget about it all because I feel I have made too many mistakes and I'm not sure I will succeed in the end. Is there too much water under the bridge? I also worry that by the time everything is said and done, I will be so exhausted and exasperated. I worry that my H is turning into someone I no longer know.

I want to pull back and backtrack so I worry it might not see the my H in my future. This is me right now - loaded with doubt. Thanks for listening.
Posted By: hopingandpraying Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/30/12 01:45 PM
I completely understand your worry that your H is turning into someone you do not know. That is what I am feeling now and I'm loaded with doubt and hopelessness. Just know that you're not alone.

Keep staying strong and detaching yourself. That's where I am at, too! I have not texted with my H since Monday also and it was about our dog and then for him to give me lame excuses that he couldn't go on a date (which he agreed to in DB counseling..uggghh). It's a tough process, but if he wants me in the end and I can forgive, then I know we'll be great, but if not, I'll be better off without all of this pain.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/30/12 01:59 PM
I get you h&p. Some days are tough. I'm pretty sure someone on his end is pulling his strings. Not sure who yet, but I sense that. I take my mind off of it quite easily actually because I know it won't last long.

Eventually, I want him to want it - but that is just too much to ask at this point I know. So, once again - patience! Not my strongest point I must admit.

A friend is coming over in a few minutes and I will get out of this funk I'm in - which will be sooooo nice!

Thanks h&p.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/31/12 08:27 AM
Ok - not sure if this constitutes me breaking the rules. I initiated the email - which I know I had promised myself I wouldn't do - so that's one rule broken. I'm thinking it might but would like your opinion. (BTW - I have realised now why I have backslid so much this week...it's that time of the month. My nerves got the best of me).

Email:

Cool!! Ooh, I am curious to know if they [something he had bought himself] are as brilliant as everyone says they are. I'm also curious to see how robust they are and if they can withstand your rigorous exercise regime. Very curious!

The weather has been really good here. Just to let you know....though I would have really enjoyed you coming over the weekend to enjoy the sun, I didn't ask because I didn't want open myself up to possible rejection.

Anyway, as you know, everyone has been going nuts about the petrol situation. I actually do need to fill up the car now though so that should be fun.

I hope you have a lovely day.
Posted By: labug Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/31/12 12:59 PM
Hi YC, I just clicked on your thread today and the first thing that jumped out at me was this:

Quote:
The weather has been really good here. Just to let you know....though I would have really enjoyed you coming over the weekend to enjoy the sun, I didn't ask because I didn't want open myself up to possible rejection.


When you read it this morning, what is the message it conveys to you?

Is that the message you wanted to convey?

I pick up on these things because I like to send seemingly innocent emails that were, in reality, laced with ulterior motive. Very early on someone on DB told me to post emails here before sending.

It was good advice for me.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/31/12 01:33 PM
Yeah exactly Labug - I so know!! I wanted to convey to him my vulnerability. What I conveyed was a potential stab of guilt I think. How else could I have said that?

Maybe not said it at all??

Ok well, I've been doing my visuals and chakra balancing - also took a 'true calms' (vitamin B for the nerves) this morning. It is definitely that time of the month - been crying on and off all day - even at the petrol station!!

I am prepared to go dim for a week.

I suppose all the visuals and clearing my energy field has worked. I worked hard though - and I got a nice response from my H that read pretty warm - for him - and informative.

I smiled.
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/31/12 02:05 PM
Petrol station?
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/31/12 03:06 PM
Gas station smile
Posted By: breakdownbill Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/31/12 09:10 PM
Gas station? http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/images/icons/default/wink.gif

Oh and don't get me started on the whole soccer / football thing LOL
Posted By: breakdownbill Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/31/12 09:11 PM
Damn wink never worked - don't bother clicking that link to see a 1cm yellow face.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 03/31/12 09:52 PM
Originally Posted By: breakdownbill
Gas station?


hehe
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/01/12 07:42 PM
Well, PMS is over - YAY! It wasn't as intense as it has been, but clearly I need to continue to investigate further remedies. It's not fun for me - but it is good in that it highlights areas that I clearly need some work on still. So, that is a positive about PMS.

So, now I am clear again - I must say that I'm pleased with myself. My H emailed a very short email today with link to an article about something I am interested in. I let some time pass before responding with a very quick, "Thanks - very interesting yes!" and left it at that.

Something in me has relaxed again - thank goodness!

I have started to take stock: where I am and what I want, and how I want my future to look. While he and I had some really wonderful times together, and I would love to have all that back - it's the not so great things which I'm happy to certainly let go of. He made some mistakes, as did I. Neither of us had the tools to overcome them or at the least, accept our weaknesses and learn to navigate life around them.

So yeah, I realise I just want to get on with my life. I love my H, and I always will. But I realise this is a time for me to really evaluate my own values and needs as an individual and in a partnership, and start healing my 'wounds' from my R, accept my insecurities, and strengthen my strengths.

I already have a life, just that I need to focus on it a lot more than I have done. My mental capacity was taken up by the how to manage the sitch with my H.

On review - this past week - I have been exercising every other day with my kettlebells, which I just love. Now that PMS is over, I can start focussing again on reading for Uni. I am already going out with my friends (been having them over a lot these days), and doing the things I really enjoy (and need to do for Uni).

I love doing beauty treatments for myself, and am oiling my hair tonight as I surf the web.

If my H were ever to come back, I would be taking it VERY slow, of that I'm sure. I've realised that not only would I have to prove myself to him, he also needs to prove himself to me.
Posted By: 2chiquitos Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/01/12 10:39 PM
Yankee-YOU'RE TELLING ME ABOUT PMS! Last month it was PreMS, DuringMS, Post-MS! Lasted 2wks! Thank goodness it only lasted a day this month! I'm considering starting the pill today just to avoid the roller coaster of emotions. However, on the upside (as do you) I have learned to "parent myself" by doing a better job at GAL!

-oiling your hair, interesting...

Take care today smile
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/02/12 12:20 PM

Ok - the weekend was really good for me knowing my own personal wants and desires, and I can 'see' the bigger picture for myself.

I am wondering about setting concrete goals. I'm very right brain so can someone help explain that to me, and give some practical examples? That would be REALLY helpful. Thank you!
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/03/12 07:48 PM
WEll! Here I am preparing to do Dim and gone dim, when today I was driving around and I bump into my H. I have been with the man for 17 years, and this has never happened before.

What was interesting was that right before work (I temp in between uni - which takes me all over the city so there's never a set place I am), I decided to comb my hair, retouch my makeup etc. I rarely do that actually after a job. Before a job - always - but rarely afterwards.

Anyway, not 10 minutes later, my H knocks on my window. He has a big smile on his face. I'm totally taken aback. I haven't seen him in so long that I felt - well - kind of flat actually. I almost didn't recognise him because I didn't have any sense or feeling of familiarity with him.

Now I know I have detached - but that much??

So yeah, he asked if he could borrow the car for the Easter weekend. I thought the exchange would happen on Friday.

He followed me home - eventually - and we had a nice chat at home. I was a bit cooler than I normally am - not intentionally! I was jst because I had this weird feeling that I know this man but I have no connection with him anymore.

My emotions have been through the mill, so they are not coming out any time soon I think!

I asked if he wanted some dinner, and of course he declined. I could feel a pang in my heart for that. Soon after I thought to myself, "I'm sick of being rejected by this man." Well, that will be my last offering EVER!

When he was on his way, we hugged - but it was a distant hug.

Then, he got into the car and I walked away. Again, it wasn't intentional - but I caught myself just going back to the kitchen without a second thought. You see, I used to wait at the door waving at him as he drove off. this time, I had zero inclination to do such a thing.

Has anyone felt so cold and distant around their WAS? Like numb? Here I am fighting to get him back yet my own feelings and body language are just not even anywhere near warm.

I think my heart has just decided to hide itself when he is around, because I just don't feel that way even with friends.

Yet, I feel like crying now that I write this.

I'm confused about my self.
Posted By: breakdownbill Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/03/12 10:14 PM
Hi YC

I know exactly where you are coming from in your sitch at the moment about detaching. My detaching is somewhat different to yours because I can't really go dark because of the kids and I am still living in the same house. Heck, we are getting on better now than we ever did & we are having the best sex in our R. It confuses me sometimes, but if this is limbo - me likey!!

Good on you for not waving him off after he rejected dinner, even more so because it was not a conscious decision (it just felt natural).

Honestly YC you are doing great, just keep working on YOU. As harsh as it may sound, the reality which I am only just accepting is that until the WAS is ready to make a commitment or decision either way about the M, there is a lot of uncertainty in our lives and we are in limbo.

You might think I'm a bit silly, but here's how I'm playing this in my head. I'm making positive changes about ME and MY life based on a deep reflection of MY feelings, hopes and desires. At the moment I still want to work things out with my W, because I love her and my kids & that this would always be my 1st choice.

IF my W still wants to separate after my course has finished, I will respect and validate my W's decision. I will be around as much as I possibly can for the kids and be a good friend to my W (no pursuing- just there for her if she needs / wants me) and respect her wish for space and freedom without any judgement.

I will use the gift of TIME to full effect, GAL'g with the best of them, spending time with my friends, looking after myself and dating again. (I'd be an idiot to think that my W wouldn't be doing the same thing - heck, she had an affair while we were together & it's probably still going on now, why would she not see other people when we were separated).

Life is just too damn short and either way I'll find happiness with or without my W.

This is my outlook on my sitch & it feels really liberating. I haven't given up on my W and I certainly haven't given up on life. This is how I'm dealing with it & I feel the best I've felt in years.

Don't cry, don't be confused, enjoy yourself for YOU and good things will come to you YC!!

Take care

Bill
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/03/12 11:48 PM
Thanks Bill for your support - I appreciate it smile

Despite not wanting to have dinner with me tonight, my H did agree to be my guarantor for my potential upcoming rental. I need a guarantor as I am a FT student. In fact, I barely finished asking the question when he jumped in saying , "Yes, I'll do it." Again, I was surprised at his willingness in that department.

So, while we had no dinner, he agreed to be my guarantor for the next 12 months.

The funny thing is that I was avoiding asking him like the plague and had tried other avenues first - to no avail.

Interesting, huh?
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/04/12 12:08 AM
Hmmm - Just a theory....I seem to have more success when I ask him for things, but a lot less success when I suggest I do things for him.

What is that all about?

I'm wondering if I was too much of a giver in our R. Someone in this forum though did mentioned the book "Solo Partner". I had a quick look at it on Amazon, and it was talking about the Pursuer/Distancer relationship. I ordered the book and am waiting for it to arrive. I may have been the pursuer.

When I think about it - in our R, I did a lot of complaining towards the end. I didn't asked him for specific things all the time, but I did complain. That's when he would become defensive and shut down (distancer). These days, I ask kindly for X, and I'm getting an easy yes.

Asking him to be my guarantor wasn't the only thing I asked him for. I asked him for other things as well - in a very straight forward manner. In fact, at some point he even said, "You can get a lot more out of me when you ask nicely."

I shall have to test this theory out a bit more. What do you think?
Posted By: zig Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/04/12 03:55 AM
"I seem to have more success when I ask him for things, but a lot less success when I suggest I do things for him."

that struck me when i read it and i realized that it is true with my h also. i'd like to figure that out also - what it means.

maybe when we suggest we do things for them, it brings up their guilt? i don't know.

i haven't "allowed " him to come over and do a lot these past few months, even though he has constantly offered - now i'm allowing it. he seems more relaxed - i think i'll continue to do that.

sounds like you are doing well, and to be honest YC i was secretly relieved to see that you have your moments of doubt also - i have been trying so hard to follow the advice you wrote me a couple of weeks ago - letting the universe allow things to happen naturally in their own time - wrote it out and read it several times a day, but am still having moments when the doubts return and then i realize that i am not allowing. thanks for your help on htat- it has really got me to a much much better place and i believe that all of a sudden i am detaching

zig
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/04/12 10:18 AM
Originally Posted By: zig
"I seem to have more success when I ask him for things, but a lot less success when I suggest I do things for him."

that struck me when i read it and i realized that it is true with my h also. i'd like to figure that out also - what it means.

zig


Do you think it's guilt?

I wonder if anyone can confirm that.

I don't really want to put on my rose-tinted glasses at this point, BUT I'm wondering if it is that men have an innate need to 'give', it helps their self-esteem in many ways. For example, if they give you a compliment, graciously accept it always. So generally, if they give, they are giving a part of themselves.

I think it comes down to basic biology.

I have a male friend that I am hanging out with these days. I don't cross the line simply because my heart is all battened up at the moment, but he gives me a lot without me asking for it at all. So, he downloads music or films, brings food over. We are both students and on budgets, but he gives what he can. We went to the shops to pick up some stuff. He only had his card on him (the shop took cash only), so I paid for everything. He was like, "I don't feel good about you paying for this. I don't feel good at all." That sort of thing. To be honest, I didn't feel good about it either. Well, we ended up going to a shop that did accept cc's and he paid then and felt so much better.

I had a boyfriend a while back, he didn't do much of anything. Granted, he was just a student so he didn't have much money at all, but not even a flower?? In fact, I was buying all kinds of little things for him. It didn't last long.

Men of the forum, can you help us out here??
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/04/12 11:57 AM
Originally Posted By: zig
"

i haven't "allowed " him to come over and do a lot these past few months, even though he has constantly offered - now i'm allowing it. he seems more relaxed - i think i'll continue to do that....

...i have been trying so hard to follow the advice you wrote me a couple of weeks ago - letting the universe allow things to happen naturally in their own time - wrote it out and read it several times a day, but am still having moments when the doubts return and then i realize that i am not allowing.


I did the same thing Zig. The pain was too strong when he said he was "Done." I cried everyday. My mother became exhausted listening to me everyday analysing everything to death. My friends as well. I picked everything apart even if there were only bones left! I actually let my H come over for the first 4 weeks, - purely platonic. I was hoping it would help. His therapist told him not to have sex with me as it would confuse matters.

After about 4 weeks of that, my heart couldn't take it anymore so I asked him to stop coming over. At first he was distraught, and came over immediately to discuss him not coming over anymore. Even bought me some stuff. Anyway, I didn't give in - no romance, none of this, "I just want to be friends" business, no cake-eating - sorry not for me. I want the whole package please - nothing less will do. He then started going cold, like really cold.

Of course I was plagued with doubt about whether I was doing the right thing. Worried that he would put his energy elsewhere - and I tell you that I am pretty certain there is at the very least an EA going on somewhere, perhaps even before this whole thing started. If I ever find out who it is, I will crush her - in the nicest possible way of course smile. No one f**** with a scorpio moon woman.

Then I found DB, and I started to follow the advice there. They weren't natural at first, but they made sense.

Looking back now, had I had DB earlier, I would have carried on allowing him to come over - but just with a different perspective and understanding about what he is really doing so I wouldn't feel so rejected and hurt anymore. I see now that friends means no commitment, a "let's see how it goes" kind of thing. So, now I am just allowing him to do these little things here and there - and like you - he does seem to be more relaxed about it.

One time recently he was over, his phone buzzed from a text msg. Granted we were talking about finances, so it was a touchy subject. Still, he pulls out his phone and says to the phone, "What do you want now!!" He caught himself and said, "It's just a colleague." What, on a Saturday afternoon, I thought? Yeah, whatever. That's when it hit me that *she* was already getting on his nerves - so I will let that one play out all by itself.

Don't give yourself a hard time like I did about shutting him off. It was for my own sake and wellbeing that I had to do it, and I'm sure you did it for those reasons as well. For me an added reason was that I wanted to snap him out of his funk a bit. It didn't work. He just grew colder. HOWEVER! The benefit is that it gave me breathing space, and so I wasn't a quivering mess everytime I saw him.

As time has passed, the doubt has subsided - but still knocks me on the side of my head every so often. My feet are still firmly planted though.

You are directing your own show now Zig. Doubt can just take a back seat - there are more important things to deal with. The universe is so much more powerful than any doubt. Open your heart to the universe (God, the light, whatever you want to call it) because that is who your partner is now - and probably should be for the rest of your life. Keep it simple for yourself. Your only job now is your wellbeing.

I don't know where I'll end up on this journey - but it is certainly interesting and I am learning a whole hell of a lot.
Posted By: breakdownbill Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/04/12 12:05 PM
OK I'll have a go at this...

Yeah us men, do like to buy things and do things for women. I'll let you in on a secret, men deep down like simplicity.

Take for instance if I were to do something handy like fix a tap, change a tyre or paint a room. On a simple level I'm doing a task, but while I'm doing it, I'm thinking I want to do a good job so my partner is pleased and praises me for this. It's a male expression of showing that we care and want to look after you. Naturally we think that we are earning some brownie points and that we may be rewarded in some way ;-)

It really is that simple with most men.

Oh and yes we really do need clear instructions, being subtle 9 times out of 10 just goes way over our heads.

It's usually not what you ask for, it's how you ask for it that gets a man to do something.

Any chance of letting me in on what women think, when they say one thing but mean another? ;-)

Thanks Bill
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/04/12 12:10 PM
PS - And, once the EA is all played out and ends, I will still find out who it is - and then I get to play and have fun like a cat does with a mouse.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/04/12 12:49 PM
Thank you Bill!!! You are a noble man indeed!

It really is that simple isn't it? I was afraid of that - hehe.

Ok, women are more complicated than that. We have all kinds of things going on - and a lot of it is because of intuition. We are "plugged in" - well that's what I call it - and we sense people and our surroundings all the time.

But, for men I would say the best way to keep a woman happy is by:

1/ protecting the relationship at all costs - so, when parents, friends, outside threats - threaten the relationship in any manner, stand up for it - in the nicest and most gentlemanly manner. It's like what you already did for your W when you set the record straight with your sister the other day. More of that will just - oh, it is just magical for a woman. You also demonstrate your inner strength, which is highly attractive.

2/ Observe her and you may once in a while anticipate what she might be feeling if she has had a hard day. Doing something extra nice and special (flowers, bringing her a cup of tea, giving her a warm hug), will help her feel supported and cared for. This will take you VERY far.

3/ Men need to work I'm afraid, or we could very easily lose respect.

4/ Talking - just talking even if it is about a whole lot of nothing is a bonding thing for women.

Now - women are getting wise to the fact that men have a hard time talking as much as we do (I have surveyed many of my female friends on this). So, there does seem to be a general consensus that we are happy to get as much 'talk' as possible, but not more. So I think women in general are starting to change their expectations in this department. For that reason, when you guys talk now - we give bonus points because we now know it takes more effort for you than it does for us.

So, when we ask how your day was, or your night out was - gives us a little more than just, "It was good." It's not because we are trying to control you!!! It is because we want to bond. On top of that, "It was good" after being out for 8 hours, feels like a slap in the face - or stonewalling. Give us a story at least. We'll be happy with one story.

We hope (at least this is how we see it) to make you into the best man on the planet - lots of pride, self-esteem and confidence because that will make you want to give back to us even more. (I am in the process of possibly revising this perspective for myself though, so it's not set in stone.) Unfortunately, some men think that when they do reach their best selves (ie, successful, money, good job, etc.) they are then too good for us, and then go off to find someone else after we have done all the hard work, and that is bitter!

We complain about you and to you about you - NAG some people call it - not because you are inadequate, but because really truly we are the ones who feel like failures. We are also letting off a lot of steam. E.g. Why does he continue to drink? I've asked him to stop drinking and he keeps on doing it. He doesn't listen to me, what am I doing wrong - why can't I get him to stop. In other words: I'm a failure.

When men change their behaviour to move more in our direction, we feel incredible victory that something we are doing is right, and that we have succeeded.

This is why MEN - find a good woman whose values you admire, and you will be a much admired man!

Women feel - do correct me if I am wrong ladies - but at least I feel like my job is the wellbeing of the relationship. So, these little gestures will help us feel supported and cared for and appreciated while we are looking after the 'bigger' picture.

Different women have different ways of achieving that, and some are far more successful than others. I have since learned that complaining got me - well initially it got me a little far, but ultimately it got me nowhere. My intentions were good though (am I right ladies, or am I right! haha!)

I'm learning different ways now - so I thank all the amazing behavioural therapists and DB and this forum for proving such crucial insight!
Posted By: breakdownbill Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/04/12 05:00 PM
Originally Posted By: YankeeCandle
Thank you Bill!!! You are a noble man indeed!

It really is that simple isn't it? I was afraid of that - hehe.

Ok, women are more complicated than that. We have all kinds of things going on - and a lot of it is because of intuition. We are "plugged in" - well that's what I call it - and we sense people and our surroundings all the time.

But, for men I would say the best way to keep a woman happy is by:

1/ protecting the relationship at all costs - so, when parents, friends, outside threats - threaten the relationship in any manner, stand up for it - in the nicest and most gentlemanly manner. It's like what you already did for your W when you set the record straight with your sister the other day. Thank you YC for the compliment More of that will just - oh, it is just magical for a woman. You also demonstrate your inner strength, which is highly attractive.

2/ Observe her and you may once in a while anticipate what she might be feeling if she has had a hard day. Doing something extra nice and special (flowers, bringing her a cup of tea, giving her a warm hug), will help her feel supported and cared for. This will take you VERY far. - Today I felt like a 50's housewife with the kids - me & my little girl made a victoria sponge cake with butter cream & I ran a candle lit bath for my W for when she got in from work. I did the bath to be nice, I'm not expecting anything but a thanks in return, but it makes me feel good.

3/ Men need to work I'm afraid, or we could very easily lose respect. Yeah, that's something I'll be addressing next month :-(

4/ Talking - just talking even if it is about a whole lot of nothing is a bonding thing for women. - Getting much better at this, in fact I'm better at this than my W ever was. I don't go in all guns blazing & demand a big conversation, I just give my W a hey - wanna cuppa? & let her come & have a chat with me if she wants to share anything & I listen & even reference back to other stuff she's been talking about days & sometimes even weeks ago (it's so much easier when we listen LOL)

Now - women are getting wise to the fact that men have a hard time talking as much as we do (I have surveyed many of my female friends on this). So, there does seem to be a general consensus that we are happy to get as much 'talk' as possible, but not more. So I think women in general are starting to change their expectations in this department. For that reason, when you guys talk now - we give bonus points because we now know it takes more effort for you than it does for us.

So, when we ask how your day was, or your night out was - gives us a little more than just, "It was good." It's not because we are trying to control you!!! It is because we want to bond. On top of that, "It was good" after being out for 8 hours, feels like a slap in the face - or stonewalling. Give us a story at least. We'll be happy with one story.

We hope (at least this is how we see it) to make you into the best man on the planet - lots of pride, self-esteem and confidence because that will make you want to give back to us even more. (I am in the process of possibly revising this perspective for myself though, so it's not set in stone.) Unfortunately, some men think that when they do reach their best selves (ie, successful, money, good job, etc.) they are then too good for us, and then go off to find someone else after we have done all the hard work, and that is bitter!

We complain about you and to you about you - NAG some people call it - not because you are inadequate, but because really truly we are the ones who feel like failures. We are also letting off a lot of steam. E.g. Why does he continue to drink? I've asked him to stop drinking and he keeps on doing it. He doesn't listen to me, what am I doing wrong - why can't I get him to stop. In other words: I'm a failure.
- This makes sense, but does just feel like nagging at the time if I'm totally honest & does nothing to motivate you to change. We are much more likely to rise to the occasion if we are compared to someone we know & you pay them a compliment - we hate that & will try to rise to the occassion.

When men change their behaviour to move more in our direction, we feel incredible victory that something we are doing is right, and that we have succeeded.

This is why MEN - find a good woman whose values you admire, and you will be a much admired man!

Women feel - do correct me if I am wrong ladies - but at least I feel like my job is the wellbeing of the relationship. So, these little gestures will help us feel supported and cared for and appreciated while we are looking after the 'bigger' picture.

Different women have different ways of achieving that, and some are far more successful than others. I have since learned that complaining got me - well initially it got me a little far, but ultimately it got me nowhere. My intentions were good though (am I right ladies, or am I right! haha!)

I'm learning different ways now - so I thank all the amazing behavioural therapists and DB and this forum for proving such crucial insight!

You are going to make someone a happy man with these changes YC - Keep it up


Thanks for this sharing of how the opposite sex thinks & feels - I think if we did more of this in general we'd all be so much happier & less confused in our relationships in general.

Bill
Posted By: breakdownbill Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/04/12 05:18 PM
Oh and by the way, my cake was awesome! My W said that my sponge was light fluffy and moist, even better than hers. 1st attempt as well - high praise indeed my W's cakes are yummy :-)

Bill
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/06/12 11:47 AM
Originally Posted By: breakdownbill
Oh and by the way, my cake was awesome! My W said that my sponge was light fluffy and moist, even better than hers. 1st attempt as well - high praise indeed my W's cakes are yummy :-)

Bill


Cool!!
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/06/12 12:09 PM
Journal Entry:

Busy last couple of days. I got the property sorted out and I am moving at the end of this month!! Soooo happy about that.

My H went to see his mother this Easter weekend, and he has my car. He's been texting a lot while he's been over there. Clearly, the EA is not around.

I did go over to his place last night (he wasn't there) to look for clues or evidence. There is absolutely NOTHING!!! Not a single trace of anything. I left totally empty-handed. He does have an ipad so it's all got to be on there. All my stuff is still in its place though, and my picture is still standing. Nothing has changed or moved. Who ever it is, must not be coming over at all.

So, I just keep DB'ing. No problem on my end. My findings are that all us LBS's need to find a 'friend' wink as it does fall under the remit of GAL. Boy, that will get your mind off of things so fast AND it will make your S's head spin. With all of our work on ourselves, losing weight, etc., it's bound to happen, so I am surprised no one has mentioned it here in the forum.

Has anyone else acquired a friend lately?
Posted By: mindfull Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/06/12 12:24 PM
Yankee... I acquired a friend, at separation time... Named Fergie. He's from DB. And, we're still together two years later. smile
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/06/12 12:30 PM
Well Mindful, good for you. I am happy that you found someone with whom you are on the 'same page'. That's really nice for you.
Posted By: labug Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/06/12 12:32 PM
Quote:
it will make your S's head spin.
How do you know that?

And if you want a friend, why not get a divorce?

Somehow I'm missing the logic.
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/06/12 01:05 PM
Yankee what kind of friend? Believe me when I tell u that u will meet many on this journey. Hope not the romantic kind, not yet. If snooping is hurting why do it? Live your life. Go fishing dancing walk do stuff ok
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/06/12 05:48 PM
Rick - the snooping didn't hurt. Just felt empty really. I want to know how far his EA has gone really, that is the main reason I need to know.
Posted By: breakdownbill Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/06/12 06:11 PM
Originally Posted By: YankeeCandle
Journal Entry:

My findings are that all us LBS's need to find a 'friend' wink as it does fall under the remit of GAL. Boy, that will get your mind off of things so fast AND it will make your S's head spin. With all of our work on ourselves, losing weight, etc., it's bound to happen, so I am surprised no one has mentioned it here in the forum.

Has anyone else acquired a friend lately?




Hey YC

What Labug said about how do you know it would make your H's head spin is right. However, I can see as many benefits as drawbacks to seeing somebody else whilst separated. It all depends on YOU as a person really. If it helps YOU grow as a person and gives YOU confidence and conviction to move on, then go for it. If you want to get back with your H though, it is another obstacle to get over and a balance that you would have to determine for yourself.

Here's a quick list of pro's & con's for seeing someone whilst separated

Pro's

1. You get to experience dating and the early stages of a new relationship again.
2. It's good practice if you & your H get back together again - you'd have fresh experience of how to start a new relationship.
3. You get to have fun now & see if the grass is actually greener.


Con's


1. It might just make your H file now.
2. You may have a bitter & expensive Divorce.
3. You might regret not holding out for your H, if it was a deal breaker for them on a possible future reconciliation.

Something to think about - but only YOU can decide what's best for YOU right now.

Good luck YC & remember that it's always best to sound out the forum with any major changes in your sitch, because sometimes we don't want to hear the other side of the story.

Have a great Easter

Bill
Posted By: finding nemo Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/06/12 06:20 PM
YC, I agree with all that Bill has said.

For me, I am no where near ready to introduce another person into our marriage. However, I will freely admit that when I went out with friends for St. Pat's Day, a couple of guys flirted with me and it did boost my self esteem. I didn't flirt back, was kind to both of them, but I still feel married.

I think innocent flirting (with strangers) is fun, harmless, and a definite morale boost. More than that when things are so up in the air seems like playing with fire.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/06/12 07:33 PM
Yankee, I do promise to go back and read through your sitch, but I wanted to offer my own support, regardless of that great stuff I see posted by others.

Do you want to be in an open M?

If so, definitely go and find yourself a FWB... smile

Please understand that while a WAS might have an OP, if they hiding the OP, then they DO NOT likely feel that it is OK. Otherwise the OP would be in the open.

So if you decide to date, understand that it is quite possible your H will not find that acceptable and there will likely be consequences that will need to be addressed.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/07/12 10:58 AM
Thanks everyone for your responses and for your advice on the matter.

I'm certainly not on the look out for a new relationship to be perfectly honest. And, I'm certainly not an open relationship type of person. However, I do find that being out with a friend of mine is doing my self-esteem a world of good. It gets my mind off of things, it helps to divert my attention, it helps to clarify my feelings and what exactly I want. Having said that, my feelings have gone underground that I don't feel much at all - rather numb really.


I haven't crossed any physical line just because my heart isn't available right now to anyone - including my H at this point.

But it is really good to hear about others' experiences in this area because outside interests are showing themselves to me. That's a really good point you make KD about keeping the OP hidden.

When I was in my M, I was strict about boundaries around my R so I must say it is nice to just feel free. My H never imposed any boundaries or guideliness like that on me - it was just understood that we were exclusive. Rarely did I even flirt.

I was reading yet another book by Michele Weiner Davis last night and I was wondering if I had it in me to give the energy it needs to get my R on track again. I am not sure I have the motivation for that right now.

Don't worry - I'm not under the illusion that a new R is the answer to my old R, or that the grass is greener. It just isn't - that I know.

I guess I'm trying to revive my emotions a bit somehow.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/07/12 11:55 AM
It just hit me that my H is now (for some reason this week) texting and emailing me on his own initiative. That was one of my mini-goals here.

I've stopped any type of texting and emailing myself unless it is about practical matters like moving home or the car. Otherwise, nothing is coming from me. He responds quite quickly to those practical matters.

In addition, he is emailing and texting about little things like asking for recipes and sending me links to articles in the newspaper. I respond in appreciation every time though, but again, my heart is just on lock down mode.

I'm afraid of reading too much into it - just in case I get hurt again. Maybe he is sensing I'm losing interest OR it could be that his mother is driving him mad.

My H and I are VERY similar in the way we respond. I'm sure he too feels like his heart is on lock down mode too.

I get this feeling that we are both like prairie dogs who don't want to come out in case it's too cold outside, so we just pop our heads out, check the temperature and then retreat. We are both moon in scorpio/sun in aries.
Posted By: 2chiquitos Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/07/12 05:23 PM
Yankee! I was thinking of you the other day when I was at the mall and passed by the Yankee Candle shop grin

I like your outlook. Focus on yourself before you can focus on your relationship! I've been in my sitch for 8mos and it wasn't until last month I started to focus on myself.

How could I have ignored myself?? That's how we don't show love to ourselves!

We are all prairie dogs. Hiding underground, hoping to come out to the light. We've been struck by a HUGE bomb so it's in our nature to take cover and only come out when it's safe.

Also, win win on the interactions with H. Respond to his texts and emails but don't initiate til you're ready.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/07/12 09:34 PM
Thanks Vero - and yes I do LOVE Yankee Candles wink
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/08/12 10:20 AM
Ok - just venting here in safety.

So, I get an email from my H, wishing me a Happy Easter, and he and his mom went out for dinner and it was good and blah, blah, blah.

17 years of being with someone and all I get is a lousy email!!

I don't think so. I really don't think so.

I don't know people, I just don't know if I have the patience for this - not today!
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/08/12 11:22 AM
I can't bring myself to respond to him.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/08/12 02:13 PM
Ok, I cooled down and got around to emailing him a response which was:

Hi H,

Happy Easter to you too. Glad you enjoyed your dinner and your run.

It's cold here too today. Yesterday was marvelous though, and I did some photography. It was really good.

Say hi to everyone there. My parents say hi as well.

Enjoy your trip back.



I'm really not convinced this is working all that much to be honest. He just keeps emailing every day, and that's it. Ok, well, I will see him tomorrow when he drops the car back off. Any advice prior to that would be most welcome. Thanks!
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/08/12 02:54 PM
Ok - update - I guess the email did work afterall. It really was a 180 for me to respond in such a collected and kind manner in these stressful times.

Ok, I just got 3 emails in a row from H. Two of which were videos and one asking for some advice on another recipe. The videos were his way (I think) of sharing where he is. He used to do that a lot like when he went to heavy metal concerts and I would stay home, he'd call me and videostream it. It's kind of like that.

Still, some analysis would be most welcome whenever possible. I know it's Easter and everyone must be busy etc., so I do understand - but it would be extra cool to get some feedback. Thanks!
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/08/12 03:26 PM
I just realised, his mother is working hard on her end. They keep making food that is from my culture, and this can only be his mom communicating with me through food. She is an excellent cook, as I am and so is he (when he applies himself). In 17 years, she has never asked me for recipes - she knows it all. Honestly, the best cook outside a restaurant I've ever come across - second to Martha Stewart. But my H has clearly been being asked to ask me for recipes - hence all the recipe requests lately. I should take some lessons from the older ladies - they are pretty savvy. My own mother is pretty savvy too.

His mom came down with cancer in December and despite the fact that he broke up with me on 31 December 2011, I went to see her in January 2012. She and I aren't terribly close - but we were friendly all this time. She isn't the kind of person you can get close to anyway - kind of domineering, cold but ever so polite about it all.

I actually went with my H to visit her, and I made sure - along with my parents - that she had proper medical care and medical advice. I'm the kind of person that doesn't allow anything get in my way if there is a health issue on the table. That is one of my values. Nothing is more important than health - provided of course the person wants the help themselves.

My H didn't feel comfortable with me going with him, but I told him he needed to deal with it and that he wasn't going to get in the way of my 17 year relationship with his mother so I was going whether he liked it or not. He dealt with it. We drove together and we ended up having a good trip.

I knew that was potentially the last time I'd see her as well.

His mother was highly appreciative of me helping her during that time.
Posted By: BklynMom Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/08/12 03:34 PM
Hey YC, just caught up on your thread. I really liked how your C is helping you reframe things. That is so important right now. Many of our Non-DB friends like to frame things in the negative and it is extremely hard to turn that around.

Onto your the current email sitch - while I think its a great sign that your H is sending you these emails dont get your hopes up. In some ways it shows you how crazy he is right now. Most people that are breaking up dont reach out looking for recipes.

Although its a good sign, it also is a long journey. Dont mention your R just continue to let him reach out to you. One day it will click for him but nothing you say can make it click sooner.

Keep track of the positives, like the emails in a private notepad and keep doing what works!
Posted By: breakdownbill Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/09/12 12:41 PM
Originally Posted By: YankeeCandle
I just realised, his mother is working hard on her end. They keep making food that is from my culture, and this can only be his mom communicating with me through food. She is an excellent cook, as I am and so is he (when he applies himself). In 17 years, she has never asked me for recipes - she knows it all. Honestly, the best cook outside a restaurant I've ever come across - second to Martha Stewart. But my H has clearly been being asked to ask me for recipes - hence all the recipe requests lately. I should take some lessons from the older ladies - they are pretty savvy. My own mother is pretty savvy too.

His mom came down with cancer in December and despite the fact that he broke up with me on 31 December 2011, I went to see her in January 2012. She and I aren't terribly close - but we were friendly all this time. She isn't the kind of person you can get close to anyway - kind of domineering, cold but ever so polite about it all.

I actually went with my H to visit her, and I made sure - along with my parents - that she had proper medical care and medical advice. I'm the kind of person that doesn't allow anything get in my way if there is a health issue on the table. That is one of my values. YC - this showed real character!! - no wonder your MIL is fighting your corner, she's seen the real you & is subtley trying to show your H that only the strongest, kind and morally sound people would do such a selfless thing in such an adverse situation.
Nothing is more important than health - provided of course the person wants the help themselves.

My H didn't feel comfortable with me going with him, but I told him he needed to deal with it and that he wasn't going to get in the way of my 17 year relationship with his mother so I was going whether he liked it or not. He dealt with it. We drove together and we ended up having a good trip.

I knew that was potentially the last time I'd see her as well.

His mother was highly appreciative of me helping her during that time.



Hey YC

Sometimes it stinks being a guy and not being able to see what's good and pure in this world. What you did for your MIL was incredibly brave and selfless, you are a good woman, not many people would swallow their pride and do what you did. I'm proud of you YC, you have a good heart.

You just keep up the good work with your 180's & GAL & stay focused on you & good things will happen in time.

Bill
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/09/12 08:01 PM
Thanks Bill - I guess I performed a "mitzvah" come to think of it. I didn't realise it until now.

Saw my H this afternoon. He came over to drop off the car. I didn't feel numb. I actually quite looking forward to seeing him. So, when he arrived, it was good to see him. I felt...yeah, I felt!!

He brought some sausages and salami from Germany, along with some pork stuff. It was all very tasty. He stayed for a lot longer than I expected he would. A couple of hours at least. Very good. My heart was more open for sure, but I kept my distance.

I'm sitting here now and my heart is open again and warm. I'm learning Bill how to detach and love at the same time. Maybe I needed to go numb to switch gears, who knows. I feel good though.
Posted By: 2chiquitos Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/09/12 11:27 PM
Yankee!
I wish those emails meant more than emails, but don't look too much into them. HOWEVER!! do see it as a small step.

Also...H lingering at your house must've been nice! Also, a small step

Regarding Rose Bowl,
H and I would always make plans to go together but his gym classes always took priority frown
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/09/12 11:38 PM
Originally Posted By: veroprado
Yankee!
I wish those emails meant more than emails, but don't look too much into them. HOWEVER!! do see it as a small step.


Hi Vero, I know I shouldn't see it more than it is - but I do because I am the one who shut everything down. He used to come over every weekend for a day to just hang. After a month of that, my heart was just going nuts. So I asked him to stop coming over and to stop emailing/texting unless it was for an emergency. That was February. He did stop for a while...and then these emails slowly started up and texts. At first it was one a week, then 3 a week, and now it seems nearly every day. In fact, I think only 3 days go by without some contact. And before, I was the one who was primarily emailing - but now he is taking full initiative on that front.

So the fact that we are emailing just about silly recipes, well, he clearly wants to connect.

And, you are absolutely correct. This is going to be a slow process.

Also...H lingering at your house must've been nice! Also, a small step

Yeah, small step - thanks for helping to keep my heart safe smile

Regarding Rose Bowl,
H and I would always make plans to go together but his gym classes always took priority frown [/quote]

OOOHH, I see!! Was he a gym instructor, or just a gym goer? My H also got into his gym big style. I know how you feel.
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/09/12 11:40 PM
Thanks Brklyn - thanks for helping to keep things in perspective too. Sometimes I get excited about these little things, so it's good to be reminded to just take it easy. wink
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/10/12 12:02 AM
My H and I were talking today about how many problems my car has been having recently. And, when I think about when it all started - it was just around the time that I said, "No texts/emails/visits unless it's an emergency." Basically, I was trying to get a grip on myself.

OMG!

On the very day that I said to my H that I want no more contact, my dad called me at 6AM to tell me that my mother had just gone into the hospital and if I could be there. I was a few hours away and it took me time to get there. He then said he would call my H to go there as he was closer to look after her (my dad was in another country at the time). My H happily agreed and took care of my mother that day until I could get there.

Every week since then, either my car or one of our cats has been having 'an emergency'. My car or cats have NEVER had so many problems all at the same time.

I do think the Universe is working over time.

I think I better lift the 'emergency' condition on an energetic level.
Posted By: breakdownbill Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/10/12 08:59 PM
Originally Posted By: YankeeCandle
Thanks Bill - I guess I performed a "mitzvah" come to think of it. I didn't realise it until now.

Saw my H this afternoon. He came over to drop off the car. I didn't feel numb. I actually quite looking forward to seeing him. So, when he arrived, it was good to see him. I felt...yeah, I felt!!

He brought some sausages and salami from Germany, along with some pork stuff. It was all very tasty. He stayed for a lot longer than I expected he would. A couple of hours at least. Very good. My heart was more open for sure, but I kept my distance.

I'm sitting here now and my heart is open again and warm. I'm learning Bill how to detach and love at the same time. Maybe I needed to go numb to switch gears, who knows. I feel good though.



Hey YC

I've just been reading your post & I think that the fact that you softened a little bit when your H came over, he didn't feel anxious & wanted to hang out. This is a big step, because that will be fresh in his memory, the last time he was with you - he had a good time (trust me this will make him think).

It's a balancing act, detaching so you protect yourself emotionally, but doing so lovingly so that you give enough encouragement to your H to pursue these good feelings and the source (YOU). That's all you have to do right now, just make the time you do spend together fun, pleasant and relaxed. It might just make the penny drop for your H, even if it doesn't it'll make you feel better if you're having a good time.

Bill
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/11/12 05:27 PM
Thanks Bill!

Ok, maybe half journal/half advice request.

I received an email from my MIL that was really sweet. She said:


hi DIL,

happy birthday to you and all the best for the coming year.. hope you'll have a lovely day.

We had great easter holidays with good food and cakes, but honestly, most of the time we were talking about you two.
he still has a lot of feelings for you and he is very sad for the being situation.

i do hope, that both of you can work it out and come to a reasonable solution.

lots of love ...


I have to say I felt really good to read that email.

Ok, so here I am wondering - well, he was the one who walked out. He rejects 90% of any suggestions I make, either to reconcile or to do small things together. You all know I've just stood back from all that now.

We really are like two groundhogs.

So here we are two people who clearly love each other but just can't sort ourselves out (in terms of insecurities).

I don't make offerings anymore coz I'm tired of the rejections - and I told him that too. I'm also weary of his lack of boundaries with other women (which stems from his people-pleasing nature). Though he hasn't done anything to cross the line (to my knowledge) he does walk too close to the fence for my liking. In this situation, I wonder if there is an AE going on - though my snooping has not proved that in any way.

He is weary of my outbursts. Mind you, 65% of my outbursts come when his boundaries are 'scattered', and the incidents linger and linger and never get resolved so they all pile up after a while.

We clearly need a counselor on this issue, but I am also weary of counselors. The last one we had - while she was excellent for individual matters - was not all that great when it came to relationship solutions. After he announced he was 'Done!" and well out the door, she was like, "Two fire signs don't belong together." She might have been saying that to make me feel better, but I'm sorry - what kind of diagnosis is that??!! We do have a lot of 'fire' in our relationship, but I always felt it was just right - it never went over the edge and in the good times, we experienced lots of excitement and energy together. We have an excellent balance of action and intellect and emotion. He truly is nearly perfect for me - only he needs to get his boundaries sorted out!!! But then, maybe I too need to learn to communicate in such a way that will get him to take heed.

Any ideas?
Posted By: breakdownbill Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/11/12 08:01 PM
Hi YC

Firstly the email from your MIL, it sounds really positive - but we don't know if it was your H or your MIL who was making you the conversation subject. All I am saying is that, your MIL might be trying to give you hope, because she knows what's best for her son. It Is still positive though either way, I'm just playing devils advocate, as what she's saying isn't matching his actions.

I can totally see where you are coming from about the over friendliness that is basically just flirting. My W is a massive flirt and she craves and needs other people to flirt back and find her attractive (it's how she deals with her own insecurities). At times it has really annoyed me, but that's just how she is - and yes it did lead to an EA which ended up being a PA. But let's not go there :-(

I think that IC is probably the best thing for dealing with our insecurities, I know it has helped me out big time with mine.

YC we really can't make our spouses change their nature and behaviour, if we want to be with them, we have to accept them for who they are. Everyone has their own boundaries of course.

I don't get scared of rejection anymore, I get scared of the fear of not putting myself out there to be accepted or rejected. Sometimes, now I'm definitely quoting a book I started to read a while back, sometimes we have to feel the fear and do it anyway. It sounds like you know what you need to work on for YOU in terms of communicating and controling your emotions, MC might feel like pressure for your H.

I think you guys, just need to hang out more frequently and things might just happen naturally. The more you practice being together and interacting the better you'll both get at it. Then the anxieties and pressure will go and you both won't be over thinking things.

That's my take on it anyway.

Bill
Posted By: YankeeCandle Re: I just want to be friends... - 04/11/12 09:16 PM
Hi Bill -

Thanks for your response. Yeah, I can pretty much imagine it was an equal measure of both of them. His mother must have prodded, but he too was willing to chat.

Yeah, his actions aren't adding up with her words. And I agree, we need to just hang out more and let it happen naturally and assess each other on an interaction level. Maybe when I move to my new place, it will happen more naturally as I will be closer to him. Maybe he will start to come out of his shell a bit if this holding pattern gets too much for him, OR the EA dies down.

Time will tell on that one.

Yeah, 'flirters' do need to sort out their insecurities because it ruins a lot of comfort in a in an otherwise wonderful and secure relationship.

I have to also ask myself whether I want to go back to that. It's another reason I'm totally backing off. Why rush back into something that has caused me a lot of confusion and doubt over the years?

Well, it's still his job to come with a clear "let's work on things" attitude, backed up by some action. In the meantime, I'll just keep doing my thang wink
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