Hi folks,
I'll start my second thread by saying "those don't listen have to feel". For any newbies that stumble upon this, don't be like me, stick to the DB principles and listen to the advice provided by all the kind people here and save yourself much unnecessary grief. When you have the urge to "think", grab the 37 steps and read them again, I wish I had... Here is my first thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2214349#Post2214349There had been some positive strives in my sitch up to Valentine's day, and then I made a mistake by sending my W and emotionally charged photo via text that set her off. I haven't communicated with her since. As such it has been a week, and that is a new personal "best" for me, in terms of trying to follow the 37 steps and LRT. I will logging any significant positive or negative changes and significant thoughts here.
Good Luck to all in your respective sitch's!
Looks like you may be starting to "get" it. I knew you had it in you. Keep moving forward. Wish you the best.
Thanks barely, it takes a lot of beating but eventually I'll get almost anything... lol I greatly appreciate the kind words! :-)
I have to take a second to give Cheryl at the DB center a quick plug. Just had my first call with her and feel a lot better about things as a result. Obviously I am keeping down the detachment road and continue to GAL, with a side of letting go of the past (which is a huge hurdle for me to conquer, thanks also to 25yearsmlc for your advice on this).
In short, if you haven't had the opportunity to speak with a DB coach I highly reccomend it, I found the discussion very helpful.
Soooo I probably won't have an awful lot to say here until my W reaches out to me if and when that ever happens. In the meantime I will try to help everyone out as best I can. Good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
I could be wrong but I think now is the time you should be posting more...
It's great that you are feeling a little bit different, hopefully a little bit less angry and resentful...
I am curious though, what does letting go of the past look like for you?
It isn't like you can just say poof, this doesn't bother me anymore, and actually have it not bother you...
What does forgivness look like to you?
What does unconditional love look like to you?
I agree with what 25 said.
I will also share with you, even though some people don't think it matters, Mach was married once. His W had 2 A's. You won't find his sitch in a thread, because he doesn't have one. You will find bits and pieces of wisdom, growth, and understanding in his many many posts. They are worth the read.
And though you didn't ask, I will tell you also, the second man that Mach described, the one who allows his SO to be her own person and doesn't do everything in the world for her, is a much more attractive type of man.
What sort of man do you want to be?
Broken's quote o'the day: (ironically this is my favorite quote ever lol)
"Choose your life's mate carefully, from this one decision will come 90 percent of all your happiness or misery."
--H.Jackson Brown Jr.
Thanks cat04,
I appreciate your feedback and questions. Today is going to be a tough day, I met her face to face for the first time three years ago to the day. Had our first date at the Natural Science Center, somewhere we could move around, do some fun activities together, it was a great time and a great date. I knew that day I would have a special relationship with that woman. I have marked this day two times before, but won't be doing so today... <sigh>
I am feeling a lot differently cat, reason being for the most part that I think I am finally detached. I'm to the point I don't care what she's doing, where she is, or what or whom she's doing for that matter. I'm GAL or "doing me" as I like to call it. I will admit that anger helped in getting me to this point, all I know is I'm glad I'm here. I am trying not to be resentful because it gets me nowhere. The past is what it is and I can't change that. The only thing I have control of is my actions today.
Letting go of the past... I've framed it for myself like this. Take someone who gets plowed by a truck into a tree an paralyzed for life. They have two choices, get over it and move on with life as best they can, or give up with the woe is me attitude. In the grand scheme of things I've determined I need to stop b*tching and feeling sorry for myself and playing the victim role. Much worse things have happened to much better people. In the grand scheme my sitch although dramatic, if it ends up in divorce not a lot of shrapnel will fly going forward. I feel bad for my stepchildren, but this is their mothers decision to put them through this type of turmoil for the second time in their lives, not mine. Letting go of the past for me means looking forward and not looking back. As far as the A, I have no idea how many guys she had been with prior to our R. And she swears the A was never physical anyway, even if it was why do I care? Stuff happens. I agree it's not like "poof" it's gone, but I'm trying to think about other things, my future namely, and just not thinking about the negatives of the past, or the positives for that matter.
Although my statements in prior thread don't sound like forgiveness, I have forgiven my W for her contributions to our downfall. If she eventually gets to a point where she would like to work on our R I will only look forward and not look back. If she chooses to move on with divorce, I will do the same thing, only look forward and not look back, and hope she has a happy life. Forgiveness to me also includes forgetting, that is what I am still working to do now. As you said it is one thing to say it, it is actually another thing to feel it.
Unconditional love to me is the ability and willingness to allow those that you care for to be what they choose for themselves, without any insistence that they satisfy you. Those are not my words but I don't know who said them, but they are in my thought notebook and ring true to me. That is what I am practicing now, her life is her own, totally autonomous of me. Although she kicked me out of her life, I still love her and would do anything for her at anytime. That is unconditional love for me.
As I have time I am going to forward read up on Mach1, 25yrsmlc, and cat04's post as I can see that you folks have a lot of experience in this area. I am only 6 months into this ordeal but am I happy that at least I have my bearings now, largely in part the help of the kind souls on this board.
What kind of man do I want to be? That's the question of the day I guess. I want to be the man only a fool would leave, the man I was three years ago today who started the process of sweeping my W off her feet, with some minor changes.
I want to be HONEST with myself and others, all of the time. When first dealing with women it is too easy to put a front to immediately "be the man they want". I did this with my W and it ended up causing problems down the road. If I had been HONEST with myself, I probably wouldn't have taken the decision to marry a woman with 3 children and 2 deadbeat dads so lightly.
I want to be FAITHFUL to the woman I am in a R with. I was in a bad place when I met my W, on a womanizing tear to help boost my self esteem, not the way to do it and that also cost me dearly, including the trust that my W had in me at the time, that seemingly never was recovered.
I'm going to continue to be SOBER because my alchololism I believe is ultimately what landed me here. If I would not have been drinking, I would never have verbally abused my wife.
I am not going to LEAD WITH "STUFF" in my future relationships. It is all to easy to try and impress a woman with things, and 90% of the time it works. I want the next woman I am in a relationship with to love me for me, not for other things that I may be able to bring to the table.
Hmmmm as far as significant changes I think those are the major ones. My W and any other woman would attest that I am very kind, gentle, loving, generous, tender-hearted man. That is unless a bottle was involved. I am glad to moving forward in my life as far as that particular problem is concerned. And I hope I can keep my other positive traits going forward.
Thanks again for your feedback cat04, it's greatly appreciated.
Good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
Thought for the day:
"Adversity has ever been considered the state in which a man most easily becomes acquainted with himself."
--Samuel Johnson
Uuuuugh struggling today...
She contacted me yesterday re: car payment logistics, everything was short and sweet and business only.
Even though it was this way it was like ripping duct tape off an open wound. I had been doing well for the most part in keeping her off my mind now she is in the forefront again.
My gut feeling tells me she is probably talking to the OM or somebody else. I want to ask her flat out if she dating anybody, I think that is fair for me to know at this point. It would be an obvious no-no to ask her this question even though it's fair right, as it would be interpreted as controlling behavior? If she is dating other people that is an indicator to me that she has no thoughts of our reconciling at any point, although she will not really broach the topic of divorce. It honestly makes no sense. If she would say "I want a Divorce in August" then that would help me mentally close on all of this, but she won't say this or anything close to it.
So I continue to GAL and have little idle time which I guess is good. Have had the desire to drink on multiple occassions but haven't done so and won't. Maybe this marriage will be the opportunity cost of my sobriety, who knows.
All I know is that this has not been, nor will it continue to be fun in any way shape or form. Actually I guess some of the GAL freedom has been fun, but I would trade a night at home with my W and stepkids in a heartbeat for all of that.
At least it will be another day in the books, good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
Help me understand your outrage now at your wife's cheating when you cheated in your first marriage and on current wife while engaged.
What do you want to do?
Reconcile, then forget about what she's doing now or with whom and work on yourself.
Get a divorce, then forget about what she's doing now or with whom and work on yourself.
Hi labug,
The reason I take particular offense to the nature of my W’s affair, is because although I made other mistakes I was 100% faithful during our marriage. I made my missteps in our dating days, as I was seemingly going through a MLC myself, still flailing about at the tail end of the separation of my first marriage/divorce. My W and I had an agreement that all was forgiven and we were starting with a clean slate during our engagement/marriage. I did a total 180 and never gave any other women a second look during this time, not once.
I know that I pushed my wife away with my drinking and associated verbal tirades, so in a way that is helping me get over the A issue. I honestly do feel that she owed me one, although that is a juvenile way to look at it. It is a very hurtful thing and now I know what I put my first wife through, and my current W during out dating days. I try to work on erasing the A from my mind every day.
During my 1st marriage I thought I was justified in what I did, because of the words that came out of my wife’s mouth. At the tailend of our sexless marriage where I tried what I thought should help us at that time (big surprise I was wrong), she said if I wanted sex to effectively go find some, so I did. That was incredibly stupid and selfish, but that is certainly me at times. I also wanted out of that marriage under any circumstances. As I said it should’nt help, but I left her with everything, so that is how I sleep at night.
You raise a good point in that regardless of what my end goal is, my behavior needs to be the same. If I worry about what or whom she’s doing it’s simply going to drive me crazy and accomplish nothing. That doesn’t change the fact it crosses my mind.
Thanks again for reading and providing your input and questions, they help me think a lot. Good luck to all in your respective sitch’s!
Proverbs 18:21 says, "The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit."
Remeber this^^^^when ever you feel like having a tirade.
Thanks Rick, that's a great scripture. I also like James 3:8-10
"but no human being can tame the tongue, it is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mout come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so."
and James 1:19-20
"let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God."
I am 6 classes in with 20 to go in a domestic violence curriculum, ultimately because of my previously vile tongue. I can honestly say that is one of my 180's, I know in my heart I will never be verbally abusive toward any woman again. I also know I won't drink again, which is another 180 for me.
Now if my wife will ever open up to see these things remains to be seen, they were seemingly the two most significant problems from my side that led to our downfall.
Thanks again for your thoughts Rick they mean a lot, I will continue to pray for you and your sitch, keep your chin up!
Broken,
Just here to say I'm rooting for ya and to give you some encouragement to stay the course. Asking the W if she's dating or not shouldn't have any relevance regardless of how 'fair' it is. Take this time to keep doing what you're doing. Unless you truly 'done' by finding out she's dating, there's no point knowing. It wont accomplish anything and will just make your head go into overdrive.
My W has recently told me she still talks to guy from EA once in a while and that really bugged me and I brought it up a few times. Nothing's changed, and me mentioning it doesn't make her want me back any more. Just be the man that she wouldn't dream of losing over the guy she may, or may not, be dating.
Thanks Ben,
You're right man. It's like most things on here, I understand the concept, logic, and psychology behind everything, but being able to put it into practice is a different story. Then there's also the case if I did ask about it she could just lie anyway... lol
Two weeks into this going dark iteration and just had one business conversation and that's it. Busy GAL weekend ahead going to do my best not to have her cross my mind. On the off chance she contacts me (unlikely) think I'm going to hold off to respond until Monday just to get her gears turning...
Good luck to all in your respective sitch's and have a great weekend!!! :-)
Hope everybody had a good weekend!
So I had a wonderful GAL weekend, kept myself busy and for the most part kept her and my sitch off of my mind.
Then today, get the random text from her...
"Did you make a snowman on your birthday?"
WTH kind of mental mindgame/warfare is that? I am starting to be convinced that she is literally just screwing with me because she knows she can. She doesn't have the decency to wish me a happy birthday but then comes with that BS question a week after the fact???
I waited an hour and then replied "I did!" and attached a funny picture of a snowman with a sign that said "I'll be dead soon" and a lol. This is the type of thing that she would have historically thought was hilarious... Just a stupid goofy joke...
Her reply "That's terrible"
I said, "It's a silly joke! Goodness lol" Then mentioned that I spent my birthday going to church, working out, and reading which I did, and asked if they had built a snowman. Then mentioned a large assignement/high visibility project I got assigned at work which is a good thing.
So I had been off the roller coaster for two weeks, and now I just got shoved to the front of the line again. And now I am questioning myself, why do I continue to do this when this person is not even any fun to talk to anymore. It's like she's possessed by another being.
Frustrating, hope you guys are having better luck than I am on this Monday. I was ready to get stuff done and then I have to deal with this crap... grrrr
Good grief man I need to learn how to throttle... Every time she starts reaching out to me I go over the top. This exercise has certainly proven to me that I am nowhere close to detached because I am all spun up. I was fine for almost two weeks until she contacted me yesterday with such an emotionally charged out of the blue question...
So we end up texting off and on yesterday, and then I can't leave well enough alone, so I text her good day wishes this morning and ask if she had lunch plans. Luckily she's in training all day, in my malfunctioning brain I was going to ask her out to lunch and drive an hour one way to see her. Holy Backsliding Batman, what is my problem?
As soon as she contacts me the 37 steps go out the window. I kept my cool yesterday but then today I lost it. Man I do not see how you folks whom have dealing with this for a year or more have been able to do it.
Had an IC appt yesterday which was helpful to vent. Not a lot of helpful advice though, best being that I have to make a decision for what I want. It is so incredibly frustrating to know what I want but to have no control over it. I am rebooting the LRT as when done properly it obviously works. 2/14 she swore she didn't walk to me anymore and less than 2 weeks later she is reaching out to me. I guess I can take this as a positive.
I am the only person that is in the corner of our M. My family and friends are all strongly advising me to let it go and move on. A very trusted friend even using the rattlesnake example, that if I pick it up again don't be surprised when I get bit. That is really something I need to continue to think about.
It would be so much easier to just let go and start fresh, and my logical brain knows this is the case. My heart will simply not let this happen though.
Just another in limbo, good luck to you all in your respective sitch's.
Good grief man I need to learn how to throttle... Every time she starts reaching out to me I go over the top. This exercise has certainly proven to me that I am nowhere close to detached because I am all spun up. I was fine for almost two weeks until she contacted me yesterday with such an emotionally charged out of the blue question...
So we end up texting off and on yesterday, and then I can't leave well enough alone, so I text her good day wishes this morning and ask if she had lunch plans. Luckily she's in training all day, in my malfunctioning brain I was going to ask her out to lunch and drive an hour one way to see her. Holy Backsliding Batman, what is my problem?
As soon as she contacts me the 37 steps go out the window. I kept my cool yesterday but then today I lost it. Man I do not see how you folks whom have dealing with this for a year or more have been able to do it.
I hate to point this out, but it needs to be said. You didn't really keep your cool yesterday at all. You (IMO) offered up WAY too much info in your text convo. I would have *maybe* sent the joke response, and no more.
Had an IC appt yesterday which was helpful to vent. Not a lot of helpful advice though, best being that I have to make a decision for what I want. It is so incredibly frustrating to know what I want but to have no control over it. I am rebooting the LRT as when done properly it obviously works. 2/14 she swore she didn't walk to me anymore and less than 2 weeks later she is reaching out to me. I guess I can take this as a positive.
I am the only person that is in the corner of our M. My family and friends are all strongly advising me to let it go and move on. A very trusted friend even using the rattlesnake example, that if I pick it up again don't be surprised when I get bit. That is really something I need to continue to think about.
It would be so much easier to just let go and start fresh, and my logical brain knows this is the case. My heart will simply not let this happen though.
Just another in limbo, good luck to you all in your respective sitch's.
Thanks 111, you're right. I really need to work on keeping my composure when she reaches out. Given the fact we are the 6 month post separation mark I still don't believe that things are at this point. Maybe my strategy should just to be answer anything she sends with extremely short responses and yes/no's when possible. Given that we don't spend any time together, I don't see how doing that is going to allow her to see any changes in me at all. I think I'm pretty close to the tipping point of saying the heck with it, and maybe that's what I need to do, just stop dealing with her period and if she decides she wants to build some type of R with me then cross that bridge if it comes up, otherwise plan to be Divorced in August. I'm trying to have patience but it is what it is at this point.
Broken,
I just got finished reading all the updates. You have come so far. Before you were really spinning, NOW, you seem very centered. You are doing extremely well applying the techniques, and getting results!
Now, your sense of morbid humor is not unlike mine. I think the snowman joke was a total hoot! But some people just don't ride like that. Your wife might be one of those people.
Congratulations on all your progress. That conference really seemed to help you too. I am at at a point where I may do the same, then I will know I tried every option available. Best to you and all your other posters, Yas
Hmmm not so fast Yas, lol. I was making some strides, but as I always do I had a classic blowup yesterday. We ended up texting throughout the day and then we ended up speaking about issues related to the car. This turned into general conversation, at which point we started talking vacations, and she alluded to going to CA with the OM. I should have certainly taken a timeout at this point, but alas I did not. The conversation ended up spiraling out of control to the point she started saying she was engaging with OM months before the one I found out. She also mentioned how the OM is carrying a concealed weapon blah blah blah because I called them out on their BS. Basically at this point this flipped the trigger for me and I decided that is my breaking point. She did make some valid points in that I had framed my life without kids for a reason and we were just too different blah blah blah. I said now that all the cards were on the table did she have anything else to tell me and she said no. I then started down the road in that did she think that anything that was done related to the property settlement was fair or right at all and she said it was. Based on this ordeal for the last 6 months, coupled with her continued ridiculous behavior, and the fact that she can never be trusted again, I am done, and will be filing the Divorce in August. I don't see that there is any way to recover my sitch, and at this point I don't want to. Her parting shot via text after hanging up was "Do not call me or text me again or I will immediately take out a restraining order. Leave me alone". Guess I won't apply the believe nothing of what they say and only 50% of what they do in this case.
I guess I am writing this out in the hopes that it helps somebody else one day. Once I decided I'd had enough, this was our final text exchange:
"I love you, SS, SS, and SD with all of my heart, but I can't continue to live like this when you can't show me an ounce of care. In spite of my problems I supported you in the best way I knew how. If you would have been supportive of me we wouldn't be here either. We both failed in our marriage, but make no mistake I was always faithful to you. You are a special woman but trust me in that there are other women who are also very special. I have changed but you unfortunately refus to see that. I am truly sorry for ever hurting you and I wish you nothing but happiness in life. Goodbye"
"Whatever. I'm not discussing who's at fault. It doesn't matter. Don't act like you are all about us. You make it sound like your life has been so lonely, but I think screwing a 22 year old is that bad of a life".
"I don't know where you keep getting that from, but you're wrong. I have done everything in my power for the last six months, at times incorrectly, to help "us". The realization I've came to is unfortunately I can't do it all by myself. And I have no desire to "screw" anybody. I want the life partner I vowed to spend my life with IN GOOD TIMES AND IN BAD. I wish you felt the same way. Maybe the vows were "for better or until things get tough and I choose to bail out" and I misunderstood them. You're not a quitter, or at least I never thought you were. I only wish you could muster the guts for your marriage at 30 that you did for SS at 14 (she birthed him at age 14). I promise you would reap similar rewards"
"What happened when SS was 14?"
"When you were 14, you chose not to quit on him. I wish you would do the same now and quit on me and us."
We spoke again by phone and she mentioned me choosing her as a "trophy wife" and I stated if I was wanting a trophy wife I would have married somebody else being honest, and she hung up.
"If I wanted a trophy wife does it not make sense I would have chose one without kids? You never gave me a change to become a stepfather. Read some books on the matter, I have. And ask your son who he called the last time he had a crisis. But in your state of mind obviously that won't make a damn to you. I am a good man, and a great husband now that I have resolved my significant issues. You know what kind of man I am, how sincere my heart is, and the man I am capable of being. I have done everything in my power to right every wrong I've done to you. If you choose to keep your heart cold to me you will never know how our story should have ended. Please stop forgetting about our good times, they far outweighed the bad. I Love You."
Then we spoke again and things spiraled further south when were playing the blame game. I ended up making a statment that maybe she could have supported me with my problem if she could have kept her *#$$* in her pants, and she hung up.
Then get the "Do not call me or text me again or I will immediately take out a restraining order. Leave me alone".
So I guess I'm going dark!!! lol
Given everything that has happened I don't think she can ever be trusted again. Ask me this in a months time and maybe that will change. For now I have no choice but to totally detach. She will have to contact me regarding the car which should should be purchasing this month unless she tries to do something stupid. I am full bore moving on with my life as of now, if she has some change of heart which I sincerely doubt, will see how I feel at that point.
So long story short, IF YOU READ MY SITCH DON'T BE LIKE ME. I regret the things that happened yesterday, but I am glad that I found out what I did. The woman I married truly has no conscious, either she did and she lost it, or it was just a front all along.
I take ownership for my part in the failure of the marriage. It is what it is, I am moving on in being the best me that I can be.
I want to thank you all for your opinions and kind words of support on this board, they have helped me time and time again. I am going to have to dissapear for now though as coming here certainly brings all of the ill feelings that go along the last 6 months of living hell which has been my life. I will be praying for all of you and hope you have more success than me.
I think it all boils down to we/I made a mistake. I had framed my life to be child free, yet I married a woman with 3 kids by 2 different men. She mentioned that when the other women were involved while we were dating that "she had to win", and that she glossed over our differences as we moved forward.
The divorce can't be filed until end of August, so that's six months of limbo... But as far as my opinion today, it's a wrap.
God bless and Good Luck to you all.
Man, I am hurting here guys. Any feedback is greatly appreciated, I am talking with Cheryl tomorrow at 5pm to try and sort things out.
P.S. Dude your situation is so incredibly whacked out I agree you should cut bait and run for the hills is perfectly acceptable feedback.
Despite everything I still love this woman and my family, the things she says and her actions give me absolutely no hope whatsoever. I didn't threaten her in any way and never have yet she brings up the restraining order crap again. Granted I made a jerk statement in anger re: her infidelity it didn't deserve that response. She wasn't screaming about a restraining order when I bought her a BMW for Christmas...
I'm asking for honest opionions of anyone who was reviewed a bit of my sitch. Given the same situation would you keep trying or say to heck with it?
This is a quote from Purg's grandmother:
"the fire won't get bigger unless you give it air... So shut your mouth!"
You've dug yourself quite a hole.
^^^^ i totally agree.
i'm not really sure where your thought process is at the moment. IMHO.. i think you should STFU (to put it bluntly) until you get your emotions in check.
the kids are just that.. kids. don't expect them to step up or call.. it's not their responsibility.
i'm sorry to say this.. but the verbal spats you have is still abusive to a degree. why can't a trophy wife have kids? all i would hear is that i wasn't pretty enough. the comment about her being special but that there were also many other woman that were special really bites. and then the comment about keeping things in her pants..
i can understand that you feel she can not be trusted again.. but just from her standpoint.. i would also be wondering if you could be as well (just seeing the other side)
maybe this will give you some insight.. i don't speak for all women but i will speak for myself..
as a mom, if H and i end up getting D and i start a new relationship.. my kids will always.. ALWAYS.. be my number one priority. how they are treated.. how they are coping.. ALWAYS! for me, i could sacrifice some time and prioritize my M because H is the father of my children (and a strong relationship w/ him would be a positive for them). however, with a new person, my kids are my heart and soul and i would not sacrifice them for that person because i have that obligation to them. i'm not saying i would allow them to be disrespectful or treat him badly.. just that if i had to choose to be w/ my kids or a new person, it will be my kids.
just trying to give you a different perspective.
Well, Broken. This is a serious backslid, and I agree with previous poster, you must Not have any conversation with her until this anger is in check, period.
Part of this program is giving unconditional love, without expectations - no matter if your spouse is having an affair. I will tell you, to fully carry this program out, it takes a unique, strong individual - that has endless faith, and engages the DB techniques for themselves, fully realizing their is no promise a spouse will come back. The only promise is that you will become the best spouse anyone could want - and that is all you can control, period.
Personally, I could absolutely not have a relationship with my husband if he slapped the cards on the table, and told me he is experimenting or seeing another woman. While I now know this has been the case, I would have handled things much differently over this separation. One thing for sure, I would have never met with him on those occasions.
I am willing to accept this MLC phase, but any OW makes seeing me non-negotiable. Other than a call to "Hello" call to test the water (I remain in the dark - and am willing to accept a reasonable settlement, divorce, or trial if he
brings it on). Also, If he's changed his mind, the phone call demonstrates that the door is open.
If he would contact me, and take notes here, all that would happen is that I would give a nice greeting, ask how he is, and then LISTEN CAREFULLY to everyword he says. I'd keep my personal life to myself. I would end the call early, on a good note, period.
Now, look what you did. You got into a relationship argument. Don't feel bad. I got into dozens of those, and they got ugly too. And I felt to hurt and frustrated after. I just wanted to call back again, and clarify my position.
Broken, it happens to all of us at the beginning. You are hurt, and your hurt has understandably manifest into anger. Anger never solves anything. No one can blame you for being angry. It is perfectly normal. Your wife is with another man - what man would not be angry? Next, you are going to get very depressed about this.
The DB process will help prevent you from sabotaging your self-extend as you go thru these very normal stages. Today is another day. Pick your sell up, read the 180 everyday, and do not deviate from them.
And pat close attention to the one especially that says, "do not believe anything she says, and 50% of what she does. She needs space, and you are not giving it to her. She made a rather strong threat to take action with a restraining order. If you don't back off, there is a 50% chance according to the 180 that she may take that action. She may not really want to, and may come to regret it - but why go there? Back off.
When she contacts you, all business, period.
Ask your "Cheryl" for more direction. Then before your appointment, ask yourself if you met the goals you and Ms. Cheryl set up. I am praying for you Broken. I even made a prayer in the prayer section on DB for you. I wish I had done it sooner!
Keep you chin up!!! You are a strong man. You can do this. Yas
Thanks labug, Barely, and Yas
Yeah it's a deep hole and I'm not sure if I want to crawl out or not. STFU is certainly what I should've done and what I am doing now. I'm going to have to disagree that any of my statements were abusive. I was being honest with the trophy wife comment, if I wanted a trophy wife, I woudn't have picked her, 100% honest, I didn't say that to be mean this is fact. It's also ridiculous that she thinks I married her for that reason. Also, when she spouted off about engaging with other man prior to the affair partner I found out about, instead of investing that energy into our marital problems, my comment about keeping her stuff in her pants holds much water. Should I have said these things? Obviously not I was angry, but are either of them verbally abusive? I don't think so. If someone weighs 700 lbs and they are called fat is that verbally abusive? No, politically incorrect yes but verbally abusive no. If calling a spade a spade is verbally abusive then maybe I have a life sentence.
I appreciate your comments on the kids, I want to point out a couple of things that may show my of train of thought in this area, as in the realm of a positive male role model in their life, I was it.
1) SS1 was born when my W was 14. He has never met his father whom is incarcerated for shooting someone in the back during a robbery attempt. Obviously no support or in the picture whatsoever.
2) SS2 and SD father is also a deadbeat, has two other children by two other women whom he also provides no support. This dude left my W bankrupt after her 1st marriage.
3) I come along, pull this ridiculously broken home up by it's bootstraps, help my W out of bankrupcy, build a new house so for the first time in their lives these children don't have to share a room. This move ALSO allows my wife to get full custody of SS2 and SD for the first time. If it were not for my actions she would not have gotten full custody of her kids. She even made mention of this in her early conversations with the other man which is sickening.
So I knew going in that I would always be fourth on the totem pole, like what you were saying. This couldn't be more clear to me now.
As far as my train of thought is concerned, it's off the tracks at the moment. Based on her threat I am obviously going dark for now. She's still driving a car that I own and I hope that I don't get screwed in this regard. If the past behavior holds true she will reach out to me in the next couple of weeks after she cools down. You guys are right in that I am angry, my anger based on her statements on Tuesday is what put me in this situation, I should have taken a time out. I'm afraid there is just too much water under the bridge now to recover, she has been saying that for some time.
And the drama continues, hopefully Cheryl will have some constructive feedback during our call this afternoon. Thanks again for you guys feedback and good luck in your respective sitch's!
So I got my marching orders from Cheryl yesterday, she was again very helpful and I highly reccomend speaking to a DB coach if you have the opportunity to do so, it is obvious I need all the help I can get. Her thought is that the Tuesday blowup isn't all that significant, but I need to maintain the proper path going forward. So there are two things that still tie between W and I at this point. 1) Her car which is totally in my name and 2) Some exercise equipment/miscellaneous items have stored in her garage.
Cheryl's suggestion was to immediately start making endroads to cut these ties to prove that I am moving on. And that is what I indeed doing, moving on, as that is the only way that I am going to be able to do what I need to do in regard to detaching.
So W and I had the following exchange:
Me: Subject: Retrieval of my possessions from your house. Would Saturday 3/17 work in this regard? <eom>
Her: Possibly. I may not be home that weekend. Next weekend would be better. March 10?
Oh, and if you're taking the TV, don't forget to bring the little one back (so I at least have something to watch, lol).
Me: I'm out of town next weekend. You don't need to be there if you will put the TV and remote in the garage and allow me access to it, I will leave the small TV in the garage.
Her: Yes I do need to be here. I'll let you know by 3/13 if I will be home on 3/17.
May be reading too much into it but she didn't do any LOL's after I mentioned I would be out of town, or perhaps she's pissed because I'm repoing their decent TV lol. And I absoulutely cannot wait it is going to be a long GAL weekend next weekend :-).
So for me it's the bottom of the 9th with 2 outs and two strikes. Unless she's flat out lying she is still dealing with the OM. As it stands right now going forward I am going to live my life as a single man who will be finalizing a divorce in August. I'll continue to work on me, and if she has some epiphany and starts reaching out to me we'll see what happens. Cheryl seems to be highly confident that this is going to happen given her history, I am not so sure. Only time will tell I guess, six months to simmer before I'm taking the pot of the stove by way of filing.
We'll see what happens. Good luck to all you DB's out there I wish you all the best!
Man, I've been GAL all weekend yet my W and my ridiculous sitch continue to consume every idle cycle of my brain. I am trying not to love her anymore but it doesn't work. I try not to think about my stepkids but they are always on my mind. I used to drink to deal with these types of emotions, but I don't anymore. I go to church, I pray for help but the feelings never subside. I am doing everything I know to detach, but it's not helping. I have a lot to do at work tomorrow and I already know I will not be focused. I'm only six months into this, it would be awesome to know at what point I will stop feeling like this. I have GAL, and quite frankly without my W and my family in it, it isn't fun.
Just venting although that's not going to help either... At least when I come I hear I realize I am not the only one their special personal hell. I visited my folks yesterday and they continue to tell me to let it go, that she hasn't made any moves toward wanting to work anything out, in fact quite the opposite.
As much as I want to I haven't contacted her, I guess that is my positive for the day... lol God Bless you all
Hey folks could use some feedback,
Have a tentative meeting with W this evening to pick up the LCD TV that have been letting her borrow since I moved from our marital home. She sent me an email confirming what time I will be by to pick it up. I haven't responded and don't want to for 180 purposes.
I think I am going to delay with a change of plans notification for a couple of reasons.
1) I don't really want to see or talk to her today
2) If I give it a couple more weeks perhaps her mood will improve somewhat.
3) This gives me an opportunity to share the fact I am going to be out of town the next two weekends as related to picking up the rest of my stuff, to hopefully get her gears turning as to what I'm doing.
But then again, if I do pick up the TV today it is a clear indicator that my coddling of her is coming to a close and I am moving on.
Any suggestions, what would you guys do, do it today or delay? I'm thinking delay would be the best bet, perhaps give her more time to work out the car financing details and take care of everything in one big swoop.
And after another sleepless night I almost forgot... Read the six stages of the MLC and think beyond a shadow of a doubt my life is in the midst of an MLC. She has a plethora of issues from her childhood she has never addressed, is now a single mother of a 16, 11, and 7 year old, had plastic surgery in 2010, got involved with OM, everything lines up. She really seems like an MLC/WAS hybrid as she obviously was plotting her exit strategy for a little bit anyway.
So I am really 6 months into this battle and have been doing all the wrong things all this time. There are 6 months until a divorce petition can be filed. Although I am still an emotional wreck I know that I have no choice but to do the right things, and as per my discussions with DB coach Cheryl she thinks that eventually the tides will change given my W's history.
What do you guys think, is six months of doing the wrong things too much water under the bridge? Should I pick up the TV this evening as a stake in the ground or delay? My gut says to delay at this point, thanks again folks very rough night and rough day today :-(
What do YOU want to do? If she is in MLC it isn't going to matter.
The big question is, how much is that TV worth to you? Odds are if you don't pick it up, she will sell it or claim possession.
When I moved out it was with the intention of borrowing those things to my W. Now she is claiming that they are her "personal posessions", which she is trying to exempt in court.
In the end it is up to you. Just ask yourself will you regret not having the TV? If the answer is yes then get it. You arre probably danged if you do and danged if you don't either way.
Thanks tested,
It's not so much about the TV itself, as I have a number of other items in storage in her garage that I'll eventually need a truck to retrieve. The inherent issue is I wanted to use the retrieval of it and the other items as a symbol that I'm moving on without her. Maybe when they are watching a 14" TV instead of a 50" one I will cross her mind... But then again I don't know if it would be in a good way or in a bad way.
I'm not worried about her doing anything shady with the items at her house. She is still driving the BMW I got her for Christmas that is totally in my name and I could repo at any time (she is supposed to be financing it in her name this month).
I think I'm going to delay this interaction for a little bit because just don't feel like it's going to go well if I do it today...
Thanks for your feedback!
Really? You think there's a possibility when she squints to see the tiny tv that she might think fondly of you because she had a big tv with you?
You are overthinking this. Go with your gut. Don't use it as a symbol or a strategy.
It sounds like you should delay it so you have more time to prepare yourself to detach and act "as if" with her.
Get the tv and as much other stuff possible without drama as scheduled today. Your stuff is in her space. Remove it.
Thanks guys, I appreciate everyone's feedback. I agree with you oldtimer, I do need to get my stuff out, but given my mental state I think it is in my best interests to give it another week at least to get my mind right about this interaction. The funny thing is, she sent me an email and I didn't respond, then she texted me and I didn't respond, and she absolutely started blowing my phone up. I am keeping my cool but she is losing hers, that's a nice change...
Recall Cheryl advised get your stuff as a sign you've moved on. When in doubt, go to exact words of Coach.
Don't mess around prolonging it.
Also, it MAY be possible that you are getting off a little on her sudden repeated contacts (perhaps you'd like to enjoy the attention a bit longer? Just a thought, I know I would if roles were reversed).
This is my recent lesson I've learned on the forum. Don't overthink. Don't try to mindread. This applies to your postulations regarding her response to a small screen VS a large screen. You will never know what she's thinking. Do not try to mind read or speculate on how your actions will effect her. Just forget. I've been doing it for years, and I've learned nothing.
You have a goal to get your stuff. Do not revamp the plan for all of these new excuses. Just go get the TV, and as much other stuff as possible. Forget about what she's thinking.
Even better, bring a truck, and take more than was expected.
No more mind gaming in your head. You are doing GREAT! I proud of you.
I have screwed up this week. And am very ashamed of myself. But I have learned a lot - especially about this mindreading concept. That stupid thing has taken up so much time in my head, only to be terribly stressful, and confusing, as well as completely MEANINGLESS and FRUITLESS. Hope this helps, Yas
PS. Please keep sharing Cheryl's advice!
Thanks Yas! You've been at this game too long to be getting down on yourself, keep your chin up!
So I didn't pick up anything from her house last night because I wasn't mentally ready. Think I have had a significant breakthrough though, and see that the nonresponsive/delayed response tactic actually works! It totally threw her for a loop yesterday when I was not responding to her texts and phone calls, she was blowing my phone up. I had a Dr's appt and they took offense to my blood pressure rise over the past year that I am sure is directly linked to my sitch. When I told her I had been at the hospital she got all concerned and has been blowing my phone up today. Just playing it cool for the time being, in the near future I will be renting a truck one Saturday to retrieve all my items from her house.
The interactions yesterday seemed like a game but they shouldn't be. But it is a game in a sense as my behaviors are not what I want to do, they are to coerce her into a certain behavior. Trying not to overthink or mindread I am very bad with that...
GAL long weekend this weekend, very much looking forward to it. Good luck and God Bless to you all!
Ok, so I am ready for a 2x4 bludgeoning and I'm a big boy and I can take it. The fact of the matter is, that this isn't an exact science, and as far as demeanor between W and myself in the past six month, at this point it is the best it has been during that time period. I haven't so much applied the DB principles in these recent exchanges, but my approach has worked. I think the fact that I have been dealing with a medical concern has really made her think. Here is how things have progressed through the week.
Monday:
Her: You get my email?
Her: Hellooooo? Can you hear me? Lol
2 hour delay
Me: No, I’ve ben at Duke all day. Doesn’t look I’ll be making it ****** tonight.
Her: Duke what? School? What’s going on.
Her: Please answer me
2 hour delay
Me: Hospital sorry, looks like they’re going to let me leave.
Her: For what?
Her: My phone is messing up. Texts aren’t working. What’s wrong with you?
We spoke on the phone and I explained they were concerned with my spike in blood pressure and ran some tests on the basis I had felt some fluttering with my heartbeat.
Tuesday:
Her: You working today?
Me: Yeah
Her: How’s your heart feeling did they say you’re stressed?
Me: Trick question? Lol I don’t feel anything. My blood pressure skyrocketed between my physical in January of last year and now. Most likely stress induced not uncommon for people in my situation, they just want to be sure.
Did my attempt at levity rub you the wrong way? The irregular heartbeat is minor, they are more concerned about the blood pressure than anything. So I exercise everyday, don’t drink, don’t smoke, but will likely be put on blood pressure meds at 38. Awesome right? Lol
Her: You do too drink
Me: I’ve had maybe 12 beers since the new year, not once intoxicated. Why do you continue to say that when you don’t know what I do?
Her: Cause I know you! ;-P
The 5.0 OS is cool. Has the pull down screen at the top of phone. Love it!
Me: I wish you did know me, because you’d know I speak the truth. You knew me but you don’t know me now. :-P
I need a new phone but I’m going to wait for the 5.0.
Her: Do you have any amoxicillin left?
Me: The big horse pills I got from you at new years?
Her: Yes. I know they were ancient but I have a sever urinary or bladder infection and I’m in pain. 
Me: Pretty sure I took them all. I’ll check when I get home. Why don’t you go to the doctor?
Her: I’m paying $2000 dental bills for SD this month and SS2 braces consultation is this month. Plus daily meds for them on top of all that and SS1 school trip expenses. I’m barely floating, I can’t afford to take care of myself.
Me: I can. I know you need to find yourself and I have been and will continue to be supportive in your doing that. If you will open your eyes and heart for a minute you will see that you don’t have deal with these worries in the future, and your family could have the man of the house you’ve always deserved.
Please go to the doctor and I will take care of it.
I know my words mean nothing to you, but they are all I have to offer since you don’t see my actions.
Her: I’ll be ok. I have Audrey’s meds that may knock it out for me. I don’t want to talk about us in that sense please. It only leads to anger and you being mean.
Me: I did not put my new skills to use last Tuesday and I apologize for that. My heart is physically broken because I miss you guys so much. If that doesn’t prove where my heart is I don’t know what does. I’m sorry you’re having a hard time and wish there was something I could do to help. I hope you feel better soon.
And thanks for showing concern for me. I appreciate it.
I’m sorry about talking about us. I know that I shouldn’t but it is important for you to know what you guys mean to me.
Her: I already know. I haven’t forgotten.
____________________________________________________________
So all in all a positive exchange, despite my as usual non adherence to the DB principles, but I feel in this case the approach I used worked for me.
This yielded a phone call from SD yesterday with everybody else on speaker, SD was trying to sell some cookie dough for a fundraiser for school. I committed to a couple of units and had a nice discussion on speaker with my three stepchildren and W. The W and I chatted for a minute, she is sick and the moment and she shared what was going on. She ended up asking me what I was doing for the weekend, and I let her know I was heading out of town to Atlanta for the ACC tournament. She made some off the cuff statement about is that halfway between here in Philadelphia where the girl I was talking to briefly is located, and I am not mind reading here but those types of comments lead me to believe that the jealousy bug is still in play. She ended up making mention of maybe grabbing dinner when roll through town on Monday evening (ironically to attend the domestic violence class that she put me in lol). I'm not saying that I don't deserve to be in the classes, I have actually learned a lot, and I was verbally abusive because of alcohol on a handful of occasions.
So I obviously have a great GAL weekend planned. I am sure she is going to be testing the waters this weekend with text messages and phone calls. So I am going to actually apply the DB principles during this GAL weekend and significantly delay my responses to any such comm's from her, or maybe just not respond at all. Correct strategy right?
I think I am finally showing unconditional love for her. I have no expectations, and I think she can feel that now. She may or may not be talking to OM at the moment, I have no control over that nor do I care. Actually that's a lie, I do care, but there's nothing I can do about it, so I just block it out of my mind. She started getting spun up when she found out I was having a problem, and she reached out to me for support when she was sick. That is my highlight for this week.
I am hitting the road after work today and am extremely excited about this weekend and am going to have a great time. I honestly hope that she doesn't contact me period, which will hopefully allow her brain to wander as to what I'm up to. Atlanta is going to be CRAZY this weekend...
Thank you guys for any feedback you can provide, and good luck to you in your respective sitch's.
Here's to a UNC/Duke final so we can spank that azz again!!!
GO HEELS!!!!
Had a great GAL weekend with the exception of my Heels getting upset, in the grand scheme of things no big deal :-).
So she did end up texting me a few times over the weekend and we had fun, no stress, non R conversations with no issues. It sounds like we are going to be getting together this week, although she was clear it would not be a "date". Better than nothing I guess. All in all seems like day to day improvement if I let her lead. Will see where it goes from here...
Good luck to all of you in your respective sitch's!
So she did end up texting me a few times over the weekend and we had fun, no stress, non R conversations with no issues.
Glad to hear it. Keep it up.
BTW - don't be complelled to share your changes with her verbally - like telling her that "you have changed." Take some time and let her see it for herself.
Thanks Grmpy... Still having positive conversations with W, primarily by text and email but everything seems to have some positive momentum. This is probably a mind reading statement but she is looking into getting her diamonds put into a new setting to wear on her right hand. This is no surprise because we had discussed previously should we reconcile in the future we would be totally starting over. I made a slightly pursuing statement to the effect of don't get to unique with her selection because you never know when you may get something on your left hand that needs to match. She didn't bite but it didn't rub her the wrong way either. Other than that our communications have just been chatty, goofy, and funny really, kind of like the old days when we first started dating. When I have strayed into "us" territory she hasn't exactly bit on it but she hasn't been taken aback by it either.
So all in all, although I'm not DB'ng by the book I'm feeling better where we are because we're in the best place we've been in the past 6 months, and things seem to get a little better each day. I realize going dark should be my strategy but I think that would be more hurtful than helpful at this point. I also think if she were conversing w/OM then we wouldn't be talking in this way. Possible mind reading but I know her and am certain that is the case. Again mind reading but I have to think the OM must have shown his true colors in a way, or something happened to break things loose in the last couple of weeks for sure.
So all in all a good week for me. My short term goal is to let her initiate all communications going forward, and I will respond in kind, and to avoid any persuing behavior. It is really nice for us to be talking again without angst between us, it has been a long six months to get this point.
I know I deserve some 2x4 treatment as I'm doing my own rogue style, but it honestly has got us to the best spot since all of this nonsense started. That said I'm not going to do anything radical to break that momentum. Thanks to you all for your continued support and good luck in your respective sitch's!
Trigger day today... Financially a good thing as rental tenants are moving into the marital home. Bad thing because I didn't think it was going to be an emotional trigger for me, but it is. I built that house for our family, now another family is moving in. I know that if there is any chance of us reconciling it will be an entirely new start, not in that house, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a sad day just the same.
More persuing behavior from me last night, asking if she or the SS's would like to go to the NCAA games this weekend, obvious answer was no thanks. She has been having some medical problems which have made me reach out to see how she is doing, I am really trying hard to stop that. I am not a stupid person but the detaching behavior is so counter-intuitive in this kind of case it is hard to follow.
I'm starting to wonder if her niceties as of late are related to the fact that she probably hasn't been able to secure financing for the car. Who knows, I have certainly proven that I am not a mind reader.
Although the communications we've had have been playful and seemingly positive, the exchanges obviously cause me emotional distress. The sitch itself is easier to deal with when we aren't speaking period, which is what I know I should be doing already.
So I'm quickly approaching the 7 month mark and am still in absolute limbo. She is in no way showing any signs of trying to work on a R in any way, and she may or may not be dealing with the OM at this point. She never mentions divorce and when I have brought it up she more or less changes the subject and says she's not worried about the divorce itself.
I guess that's the silver lining I take for now, and the fact that we speak and have fun non R conversations. It would be crazy to actually spend some time together! lol
Just venting really, I know I need to do a better job on detachment. Tomorrow off and another GAL weekend at the NCAA games, detaching on the weekends isn't so much of a problem, during the week it's a different story...
Good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
I think you need to give her some time to seriously miss you. She can't have the pleasure of your company, and also do whatever she's doing, or shouldn't be doing. (Help me remember, Broken, what exactly was the reason she put you out? I'd like to re-virus that in comparison to current situation).
And DBer's - what is Broken to do with these multiple texts? Obviously, keep it business - and kid related. But when there are so many (because this young lady is not used to being "ignored").
One more point, Broken. As I read this post, and the conversations with your wife, I got the distinct impression you were trying to tempt your wife with a better life, with no money problems, like she deserves (manipulating/control). My guess is that if she capitulates to your wishes, then it will be ok for her
financially.
That is no less than a bribe. You have to quit trying to buy love. Put money in the bank for the kids education. And don't talk about. Don't tell her about the changes. You more than anyone needs these 180 rules.
Cheryl, and your DB posse will direct you. I wll re-read your thread, as I have difficulty holding information in my mind. Yas
Thanks Yas, I agree with you she even used those words herself in January. Now that things are even keel between us that has made the detaching a lot harder. Our interactions have been pleasant and positive recently.
As far as the catalyst for where we are primarily:
1) I was verbally abusive (alcohol induced) on a handful of occcassions during our 1.5 year marriage, I think primarily driven by the financial stress I was feeling as well as the stress of acclimating in the role of stepfather to my 3 stepchildren.
2) After she hit her "breaking point" but prior to our physically separating, she started an EA with another man.
3) Things got really ugly after I found out/called them both out on this/confronted OM etc. He now carries a concealed weapon around apparently for fear of me for whatever reason, aside from being a 5'5 Clay Aiken look alike he has no reason to be scared, he's not worth my time ;-).
Hey maybe I'm growing as I can air my faults without saying but I did this, this, and this now... ;-)
Most of our texts are general conversation now, since the dealings with the kids are her responsibility now. I have tried to be involved, asked to do things with the kids but that is a no-go at this point because she doesn't want to "confuse" them. But it is ok for them to approach me when it is fundraising time at school, and I welcome that.
I honestly am not trying to bribe and control her, but I am pointing out what she already knows in that her life would be much easier with a partner. I have always been there for her and sadly I still am and she knows this... That is part of my trying to show unconditional love for them though.
That is a good idea to set up a monthly deposit to the college funds, if nobody else is going to invest in their future at least that's something I can do.
She can't see my changes and she still doesn't believe I don't drink.
The frustrating thing for me now is that as far as our interpersonal relationship goes, it's the best it has been in the past six months. There is obviously no love being shown by her (aside from her genuine concern when I was visiting the hospital), but our communications are jovial and pleasant, almost like the early dating days. The problem is this is making me have EXPECTATIONS that something more signifiantly positive is going to happen soon. I really think she is starting to see the light just a little bit, but perhaps this is mind reading.
I feel I am in the best spot since all of this started, and even though that may the case trying to DB is harder than it has ever been...
Thanks again for your feedback and thoughts Yas as always they are greatly appreciated! :-)
a few small 2 x 4s
Thanks Yas, I agree with you she even used those words herself in January. Now that things are even keel between us that has made the detaching a lot harder. Our interactions have been pleasant and positive recently.
As far as the catalyst for where we are primarily:
1) I was verbally abusive (alcohol induced) on a handful of occcassions during our 1.5 year marriage, I think primarily driven by the financial stress I was feeling as well as the stress of acclimating in the role of stepfather to my 3 stepchildren.
How has any of this^^^ changed? Why or how would you interact differently with the kids if you were to reconcile?
2) After she hit her "breaking point" but prior to our physically separating, she started an EA with another man.
3) Things got really ugly after I found out/called them both out on this/confronted OM etc. He now carries a concealed weapon around apparently for fear of me for whatever reason, aside from being a 5'5 Clay Aiken look alike he has no reason to be scared, he's not worth my time ;-).
she feared you enough to get a restraining order, correct? And OM fears you enough to get a gun? is it possible you are, intentionally or not, intimidating to people?
Do you think that is attractive?
Hey maybe I'm growing as I can air my faults without saying but I did this, this, and this now... ;-)
Most of our texts are general conversation now, since the dealings with the kids are her responsibility now. I have tried to be involved, asked to do things with the kids but that is a no-go at this point because she doesn't want to "confuse" them. But it is ok for them to approach me when it is fundraising time at school, and I welcome that.
I honestly am not trying to bribe and control her, but I am pointing out what she already knows in that her life would be much easier with a partner.
that^^^^ IS bribery and trying to control. If she "already knows that" then why on earth are YOU pointing it out? Stop that.
You complain that you are in limboland and that you are not "really" DBing...so how can WE help you since that forms the basis of our approach?
I have always been there for her and sadly I still am and she knows this... That is part of my trying to show unconditional love for them though.
That is a good idea to set up a monthly deposit to the college funds, if nobody else is going to invest in their future at least that's something I can do.
She can't see my changes and she still doesn't believe I don't drink.
b/c you are still pointing things out that she already knows, which is verbally, at least, more of the same old you. And b/c you DO still drink. You said so yourself.
A "handful" of verbally abusive episodes that deeply wounded & frightened her may not seem like much to you (part of the problem) but in 18 months of marriage? That is a LOT.
and IF I truly believed alcohol was a factor at all - in the demise of my marriage, it would be an "allergy" for me that I'd never touch again. Simple as that.
The frustrating thing for me now is that as far as our interpersonal relationship goes, it's the best it has been in the past six months. There is obviously no love being shown by her (aside from her genuine concern when I was visiting the hospital), but our communications are jovial and pleasant, almost like the early dating days. The problem is this is making me have EXPECTATIONS that something more signifiantly positive is going to happen soon. I really think she is starting to see the light just a little bit, but perhaps this is mind reading.
I feel I am in the best spot since all of this started, and even though that may the case trying to DB is harder than it has ever been...
Thanks again for your feedback and thoughts Yas as always they are greatly appreciated! :-)
Detach and back off. Don't point out your changes. That itself would be a change.
Be kind and gentle to her and concerned for the kids. Help them when you can but have no expectations of them. That truly does help bring you closer.
Thanks 25, I greatly appreciate your taking the time to review my sitch and provide feedback.
Regarding the kids, I have read and reflected a lot. They truly need a positive role model in their lives, because their respective fathers certainly are not. I am ready to treat them as my own, should I be afforded that opportunity in the future. I really do miss them and the things we used to do.
The OM certainly was intimidated by me, and he had a right to be at a point in time, but worrying about me now is his own head messing with him. Even though I forgive them both can't say I mind lol. My wife tried to get the DA to drop all charges. She filed the restraining order as a means to an end to get me out of the house, so she could try to rekindle the EA that I busted up. I am a physical presence but I am generally not an intimidating person, my W would attest that she never feared for her physical safety. All this being said I understand that her viewpoint may be different, as perhaps she though differently since she got caught outside her marriage with another man... As you can see this still gets me spun up but I continue to work in this area.
I see your point on the bribery and how that can be construed as controlling. What I can't figure out is how to apply the DB principles while at the same time "be kind and gentle to her and concerned for the kids". That's what I have been trying to do, but I can't go dark/LRT and be kind and gentle to her and concerned for the kids, unless that just means responding in kind when she reaches out to me... Which I realize is what I need to do.
25 you really have a way of making me be able to see her perspective. You're right, the handful of beers I've had were at work related functions, and there's no excuse for it, but I haven't got intoxicated. I know that doesn't matter.
I am going to heed your advice 25, it will be easy for me to back off for the next few days at least, and if she reaches out I will be kind and gentle as I have been for her and the kids, and see where it goes from there.
Thanks again for your feedback it's much appreciated :-)
Broken, I'm not sure 25 touched on this. This Uncondional Love you speak of, does not mean you will come back to your wife on whatever terms, or no matter what happened in the past.
It is more like the way your love would not change for your Mother if she were convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison. The love for your mother would not change, if it is there to start with. The reason it won't change is because it is unconditional.
I may not be quite on target with my example. And please DBer's reuse me if I am wrong. Broken, I am now just starting to wrap my own head around these concepts - so please forgive any confusion I may have. However, you may learn from my journey.
When you spoke that your wife knows you will come back to her no matter what, I'm not positive that is unconditional love - in, at least, the CONTEXT of your post (particularly 25's observations).
Recently, I made a serious judgment mistake. I thought my six months away had helped me develop detachment. Indeed, I developed a withdrawal from my negative encounters with husband, and was busy with a big renovation project, and had made a number of new friends.
My mistake was equating withdraw with detachment. I am not detached. In fact, after now in my fourt year of this separation, my new therapist pointed out to me that in terms of the grieving stages, I'm hovering around "bargaining" and bouncing into denial once in a while.
...note. Going thru DB process, detachment, real detachment is absolutely necessary or you will remain in denial. There are some posters where you can see this. I'm close to being one of them, that is why my final boundary is to endure the Court system once again in my life. Not of my making. Anyone that would put me thru something like that has crossed a nonnegotiable. Actually, just the threat has sealed the coffin for me.
Please learn about real detachment. This will enable you to discuss matters with your wife in a business manner, and allow you to listen and learn from her as you grow during this period that she asked you to leave. This is a gift of time, and unconditional love will always be more preferable to anger, one-ups-man-ship, causing jeleiousy, or using intimidation - no matter what subtle form.
I will keep reading your thread, as I have to keep working on detachment and GALing. I'm feeling so much better with my new medication! It sounds like a crazy a$$Ed dose, but it is really working. Today, I finished, copied, and over-buggers one year's worth of financials, credit card statements, retirement fund statements, bank accounts, etc. I even made a copy for opposing council. Wasn't that nice of me! (I had some help!). But it's done! Yipee! Best to you. Yas
Thanks 25, I greatly appreciate your taking the time to review my sitch and provide feedback.
You're very welcome. I believe you are trying in your way. Let me show you a few patterns you have you MAY want to change.
Regarding the kids, I have read and reflected a lot. They truly need a positive role model in their lives, because their respective fathers certainly are not. I am ready to treat them as my own, should I be afforded that opportunity in the future. I really do miss them and the things we used to do.
good^^^so, HOW will YOU interact differently with them if you are given that chance? Be specific. Envision it in some detail....
The OM certainly was intimidated by me, and he had a right to be at a point in time, but worrying about me now is his own head messing with him. Even though I forgive them both can't say I mind lol.
my gut says "no you have NOT forgiven them". A part of me wonders if this is about "winning" her back...Not so much loving her but just not wanting to lose.
Do you understand my concern? (You don't have to agree w/it, but do you see it?)
you did not really address my question about your apparent ability to intimidate or whether you believe it's attractive. Or seen as a strength?
My wife tried to get the DA to drop all charges. She filed the restraining order as a means to an end to get me out of the house, so she could try to rekindle the EA that I busted up.
See, this^^^ just strikes me as more deflecting and "tit for tat" and more denying what "really" is your wife's perspective. I think deflecting is a pattern for you to avoid digging deeper.
I truly am not sure you get where SHE is coming from. And if you don't or can't, then that's bad news.
I am a physical presence but I am generally not an intimidating person, my W would attest that she never feared for her physical safety.
so did she lie on the petition for a restraining order? Would SHE SAY she lied?
All this being said I understand that her viewpoint may be different, as perhaps she though differently since she got caught outside her marriage with another man... As you can see this still gets me spun up but I continue to work in this area.
see, HERE^^^ you blame her for maybe having a different viewpoint of YOUR behavior by deflecting and attacking her for being "Caught outside her marriage with another man"....
what does THAT have to do with whether you are intimidating to her?
To justify it? Oh, that would be another pattern for you then, wouldn't it?
I see your point on the bribery and how that can be construed as controlling.
What I can't figure out is how to apply the DB principles while at the same time "be kind and gentle to her and concerned for the kids". That's what I have been trying to do, but I can't go dark/LRT and be kind and gentle to her and concerned for the kids, unless that just means responding in kind when she reaches out to me... Which I realize is what I need to do.
you answered your own question. It means you do NOT have control over if and when she reaches out, but you DO have control over how you react to it.
I don't see how being kind, gentle & ethical will ever be something you regret.
25 you really have a way of making me be able to see her perspective. You're right, the handful of beers I've had were at work related functions, and there's no excuse for it, but I haven't got intoxicated. I know that doesn't matter.
I'm the daughter of an alcoholic w/a PhD, and 3 other graduate degrees who functioned quite well at work. When he drank, which he did for a solid 20 years (nearly all of my childhood) he was often goofy, and or verbally AND physically abusive and irrational.
I could never understand how he could wake up in the morning and see the wreckage he'd done the night before, (even if he literally could not recall it--it was him) and NOT stop drinking cold turkey. Seemed we were not important enough for him to stop. But I see his addiction now for what it was, a disease. I only wish he had the tools that we have now.
I KNOW that If I ever hit my spouse or kid
OR called my kids ugly names and ranted/vented on them "BECAUSE" I'd been drinking...(which is me using alcohol as my excuse), then it'd be something that never touched my lips again.
My father died when I was about 30, of liver cancer (yes from drinking). He had been sober a few years, thankfully.
He had a TON of regrets but he did a lot of reconciliation work in his short (7 weeks from diagnosis to death) time left.
He sincerely asked for my forgiveness-- and I had done a lot of work on it already. I said "You are forgiven" and I meant it.
It was the holiest experience of my life.
Don't wait til you are on your deathbed to say you are sorry. He wasn't able to say it to all those whom he intended to...much was unsaid for them. And unresolved.
I am going to heed your advice 25, it will be easy for me to back off for the next few days at least, and if she reaches out I will be kind and gentle as I have been for her and the kids, and see where it goes from there.
Thanks again for your feedback it's much appreciated :-)
good luck!
Broken
I MIGHT have posted this piece to you before, and if so, I apologize. But many people, (both men and women) have said it helped them.
So if you've already seen it, it wouldn't hurt to read it again and if not, then definitely see if any of it applies or feels authentic to you....
so here it is--it's from Denver's thread of long ago....and the DB moderator posted it somewhere as a "classic" post.
FROM A WAW TO A LBS HUSBAND WHO HAS CHANGED * WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT COME HOME YET, & HOW SHE COULD BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM….
"When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M. I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than. I even got chills when she talked about the FB issues, because I've been there and done that, bought the t-shirt Of course, my H went a step further and cheated, then left, adding an extra crunchy layer of goodness to my sitch.
One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H. Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes.
So, I can see where your W is coming from. When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.
Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time.
And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.
Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope.
You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.
And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to win.
Even you today you say that you are not sure that you don't just want to win.
Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell."
_______
__________________
Me: 32, H: 32
M: 12 years T: 13 years
No kids
Thanks Yas and 25, I greatly appreciate all of the valuable feedback.
I appreciate all you guys points and think they are spot on. I found out this weekend by her admission that my W is still engaging with the other man. I've decided that that is unfortunately a deal breaker for me, and told her I will be filing the divorce papers in August. I am done being the fallback for someone who holds 0 respect for me.
So I'm going to continue working on myself, but this one can be considered another marriage to put on the garbage pile. She was so incredibly cold and callous I think it's time for me to admit to myself that I was just a stepping stone and have beeen played this entire time.
Ces't la vie right? I'm going to start another thank you thread that will be last one. I greatly appreciate you guys feedback obviously you both took a lot of time to write it out, and I greatly appreciate that.
25 you may be right in that I was just fighting to win, because either I don't love her enough to continue with all this nonsense or I just don't want to play anymore. I really feel bad for my stepchildren, God only knows how many other men are going to drug through their lives...
Thanks again to all who have read and responded, I wish you more success than me. :-(
Why wait till August to file? I'm not saying that you should reconsider, it must be hard to deal with some of her stuff. But why give up on yourself? If you have worked on you than that is a success right?
Hi Rick, I'm in North Carolina so it can't be filed until the one year separation date. I should have worded my last sentence better, I'm not giving up on myself I will press forward, but I am done trying to do anything to try and reconcile. Basically my W is an adultress and I have to accept that, and she has no ethical problem continuing to try and build a relationship with her affair partner, after putting me through the ringer financially, playing my emotions to avoid the legal ramnifications of the affair for both of them, and just in general being a ridiculously cold, manipulative, cant!
This is like uncovering the affair/bomb day all over again. I am mentally quite squirrely and the only think keeping me from making a pretzel out of this low life Dr. mf she is still dealing with is the fact that I would get locked up immediately.
This entire ordeal has been such a joke from day 1. I am really trying to take a step back and calm down, but it is an extreme challenge. She again mentioned my behavior as being irrational after my getting slightly peeved upon her admitting that she is seeing the original affair partner. So basically not only does she have no remorse for the Affair itself, she is going to continue down that road I'm sure he's met all the kids by now etc.
Not my problem anymore. He can have her. She has a doctors appointment today and I am still concerned about her. I still love her and wish she would change her ways. I personally just cannod deal with this anymore, I am going to either have a heart attack or end up in jail if I continue to go down this road.
She is the WAS from hell... She cleaned up her act during the holidays to milk me for the Chirstmas expenses and put her in a new car, banged me a couple of times then started seeing this douchebag again after the holidays.
I will miss my stepchildren and her, but I won't miss the constant struggle in my head, which I am interested to know when it will stop since I am have came to grips with the fact that this is truly over...
Broken
if you KNOW it's a deal breaker for you, so be it. Not sure why the particular OM matters so much, but I'm sorry for your pain.
But stop labelling and condemning her behavior.
Truly, It does NOT HELP YOU...
in fact it brings out the worst, most critical & judgemental part of you
and that's part of what you want to conquer in yourself, or so I thought.
My anger consumed me, and didn't help my kids OR my r with my h either. Until I realized that it was hurting me more than anyone else and probably confirming my h's desire to leave...did I really work on it.
Your anger & irritability was a problem you admitted having before you knew of the OM. Why aren't they still problems for you to work on?
You want her to regret her choice, then make sure you stay on course with those changes. Plus you don't want to be here again after R's w/another woman.
The negative mind reading must also stop. You do NOT know what she felt or meant at Christmas.
You don't know how conflicted she was or for how long.
All you know is YOUR part & that's all you can work on.
Why not make that your focus?
Thanks 25,
There's an old saying I put into practice quite often... How many bites of a $hit sandwich can you take before throwing up... I'm throwing up now. This particular other man matters so much because it the same mf that she had the affair with.
You are right about my anger. I have been working on it, and the only thing that sets it off now is my W's ridiculous adultery driven behavior. I don't think that any amount of Divorce Busting, Mediation, Bible Reading or otherwise is going to make any man not get angry about this type of situation. Maybe I'm just beyond help, if so that is fine. I can't stand being treated like this anymore. I can literally envision her servicing this douchebag in the car I got her for Christmas and there is no way that doesn't make me angry.
That being said, I am working on a number of things about myself, my anger being one of them. But there is nothing that is going to make my viewpoint of her behavior in any way acceptable. She has discraced herself, me, and her children and family, I just don't think she realizes it yet.
I don't see there being any recovery in this now. I honestly don't. She literally dangled things working out over my head to backdate the separation agreement so I couldn't file an alienation of affection lawsuit against this dude. Her behavior has been unprecedented, and yet I still wanted to fix this, why?
I'm going to be the best person I can be for me, because I've certainly learned through this that I'm the only person I can truly count on (besides all of you wonderful DB'ers of course).
I guess in a way I took BustORama's approach to a little bit more of an extreme. It will be an interesting psychological experiment to see what happens over the next few months.
I am moving on with my life as now. Call it GAL, detachment, or whatever but she is no longer of my concern, or that's what my mouth says anyway.
Thanks again for your mentoring I truly appreciate it. I feel like I am back at ground zero but I certainly won't be making the same mistakes I have been making.
At this point I honestly don't think I ever knew my W. She is truly the most manipulatively evil person I think I have ever known. And will that help get over this any faster, probably not.
Man this is so extremely ridiculous I would never in a million years have thought I would ever be in this situation.
Thanks again 25 and all of you, I am keeping the focus on myself, no way I won't be detached after this at least...
Just venting... Damn, 24 hours of detachment and it feels like the last 7 months have been all for naught and I'm starting this entire ordeal over again. I cannot get my head around the fact that I have been treated this way and I still love this woman, It makes absolutely no logical sense at all. Zero sleep, can't focus at work, can't eat either. Maybe I'll drop 20 pounds in the next two weeks to be at a good playing weight for basketball season.
5 months and 8 days before the divorce can be filed. It is quite possible I will end up in a padded room before then, because I still sit here and pray that something changes and she will come back to me. I think I would be better off buying some lottery tickets.
I guess in a way I am being forced to DB now, 24 hours is a start right? lol
Good luck to you all in your respective sitch's!
Broken if you don't stop thinking about W and your sitch you will remain stuck. What is it that you want?
Hi Rick, I want to stop thinking about her and my sitch... But I can't, I have plenty of GAL activities but every idle cycle of my brain drifts to this. At work it's especially bad. Despite all of the bad that has happened and all the I'm done's that I've said I still want to reconcile with her but I don't see that's ever going to happen... I know that I will be fine but this situation is so hopeless and I would give my left arm to fix it but that's not going to help.
I hear ya. It hits me at work also but I take walks and clear my head. When you hope and believe that bad things will happen, many times they come true. So maybe change that and hope for good things to happen and seev if anything changes.
When you hope and believe that bad things will happen, many times they come true. So maybe change that and hope for good things to happen and seev if anything changes.
Print this out and read it often...
Thanks guys, a PMA reminder is always helpful. Hope and Change right :-) I appreciate the kind words.
Man I think today has made me realize I am going to have to seek out real professoinal help to deal with this. I have been seeing an IC (clinical social worker)who was also our MC so she knew my W and I go in there and vent but it is not helping me feel any better. I am at the point I just need these feelings to go away, be it via prescription, hypnosis, or something. Alcohol used to serve as a temporary fix for this but I am no longer going there. I feel like a cement mixer has been dropped on my head at month 7, I am struggling to do my job. All I want to do is call her or see her. I'm going to seek out a full blown psychologist tonight.
Man I honestly didn't think there was any lower to go with this but at the 7 month mark I think I have hit rock bottom here. All I want to do is talk to her and I can't and it's literally driving me crazy...
Broken see a psychiatrist. You maybe depressed and need Meds. Have the psychiatrist refer you to a therapist.
Get some help....you may feel different about this up the road. Broken, its really pretty simple - you need to take car of you. Get some help and forget the W even exists right now. No relationship is worth losing your sanity. Remember, a H she would be crazy to leave? Well get to it...no more excuses.
You might want to try 5HTP if you don't want drugs, and maybe some magnesium, and a great supplement called True Calm by Now foods(vitamin B's for the nerves). It's all natural and won't get your system dependent. You will naturally need these to help you cope with stress at the moment as your body will be using a lot of nutrients to get you through this. I am not a naturopath or anything, but I take these to support myself during this trying time and they really do help.
Thank you guys for your support. I certainly had a mini meltdown yesterday. I have an appt with my IC at 6:30 tomorrow. I thought about a lot last night, and have came to the conclusion that my W issues are so deep I can't keep making myself vulnerable to be there for her. As you said Grmpy there are no more excuses. I am going totally dark and fully expect to never to hear from her again. I am coming to terms with her adultery and then on top of that continuing in a relationship with her affair partner. That is a major bruise to the ego, but I think eventually that will fall apart. At this point I will say that I won't be there to pick up the pieces when that happens. There is just too much water under the bridge, I could never trust her again...
I probably will not be here much because alhtough it's been very helpful, it also gets me spun up to make me dwell on my sitch to look for other things to do. The only thing I can do now is to protect myself and move on with my life. I will post any significant updates if they happen, and will add to others sitch's if a can when I visit here.
Thank you one and all for your support and advice. This is a great community with a lot of great people. I am Broken but will not be defeated. Godspeed and good luck to all in your respective sitches!
Broken, if it's time to go, it's time to go but I'm going to challenge you first.
It takes 2 people to make or break a R.
Are you leaving because you've figured out you can't change your W and you choose not to change you?
You said yourself you've used alcohol to deal with your uncomfortable feelings. Now that you aren't actively using, those feelings are going to surface a lot. What are you going to do about that?
How do you think your next relationship is going to look if you don't work on what causes that discomfort, uneasiness, shame that's deep inside of you?
You've probably heard, that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Ring a bell?
Hi labug,
Thanks for your response. I am certainly going to carry on with my changes to be a better person. I will make updates here sporadically, but when I come to this site it is going to immediately bring my W and failed marriage to the forefront of my mind which I can't deal with right now.
My plan for now is to keep working on myself, and strengthening my relationship with God, and put a lot of focus on my job and other GAL activities, and more importantly, try to forget that my W, our marriage, and our past ever existed.
At this point I doubt I'll ever get married again (although that's what I said after the first one), given my track record with it that really would be insane... lol I need to learn to be happy on my own, which is what I am trying to do. It's probably going to be a long time before that happens.
So I'll still be around from time to time. Who knows, maybe a month from now she'll be telling me she's sorry... Somehow I doubt it lol It's more likely that she'll engaged to the OM since he's loaded.
Thanks again bug, many hugs to you!
Hi labug,
Thanks for your response. I am certainly going to carry on with my changes to be a better person. I will make updates here sporadically, but when I come to this site it is going to immediately bring my W and failed marriage to the forefront of my mind which I can't deal with right now.
maybe someday soon you'll post about all your GAL instead...and your PMA and the 180s and your w may not come up again at all.
I happen to think seeing a professional is called for. Most spouses would in your shoes if they could not control their thoughts...
and there are several posts on this site about HOW to get the thoughts of your spouse with OPs out of your mind.
Check those out. The stop sign method is simple but effective. You literally imagine a Stop Sign every time she comes into your mind and replace that thought with another DIFFERENT one...but there is more to read on it. Check it out.
My plan for now is to keep working on myself, and strengthening my relationship with God, and put a lot of focus on my job and other GAL activities, and more importantly, try to forget that my W, our marriage, and our past ever existed.
if that helps you for NOW, temporarily, so be it. But in the long run it is not the recipe for growth.
At this point I doubt I'll ever get married again (although that's what I said after the first one), given my track record with it that really would be insane... lol I need to learn to be happy on my own, which is what I am trying to do. It's probably going to be a long time before that happens.
You have nothing to decide now. If you learn from the mistakes you made in this r, and you grow into the man you were meant to become, then you may well feel differently AND better prepared for a healthy r with someone...later.
So I'll still be around from time to time. Who knows, maybe a month from now she'll be telling me she's sorry... Somehow I doubt it lol It's more likely that she'll engaged to the OM since he's loaded.
Thanks again bug, many hugs to you!
enough about her.
What, specifically, are you working on in you? Your temper? Okay good...and the condemnations, how about those?
They don't help YOU or your cause.
I learned this the hard way---
"if you hold onto anger b/c you think it hurts someone else,
it's like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes."
Thanks 25 and everyone, I'm much much better today. My primary doc gave two weeks of Lorazepam and I can tell it has put me on a much more even keel already. I have IC appt at 6:30 tonight as well.
I think the past four days although emotionally wrecking have finally made me come to terms with my sitch. Here are the last comms we had on Sunday.
Me "Can we please meet tomorrow at Ruby Tuesays to talk for a few minutes? In the greand scheme of things I really don't think that is too much to ask".
Her "I have a mid-term due tonight and its 2 hrs long. I will be working late tomorrow because I have an appt in the middle of the work day. I don't think it's a good idea to talk. You ned to make your decisions for you, not based on me. My feelings about us have not chaged. I don't think we could ever truly be happy together."
Me "Your decisions won't allow you to figure that out, you are damaged trying a relationship with antoher damaged person. Why do you refuse to invest any energy in us at all? It has been 7 months since you know anything of significance about me.
Her "That's not ture. We had spent time together and it's clear to me that we are too differnt. Even when Michael and I didn't speak for months I still did not want to be with you".
Me "Cassie this has been the most trying 7 months of my life, I have nhot been myself, and I have been put through absolute hell. Can you seriously in good faith give up without looking to see me now? The things I've done out of unconditional love for you and the kids mean nothing to you?
Her "Your beahvior is still irrational. All of the texting and calling you did this weekend, all because you knew I was with him"
Me "I didn't know you were with anybody you told me you were with friends last night if you recall. I was trying to spend some time with you that's all. So He's met all the kids right?"
Her "Whatever I know you drive by the house"
Me "That's not true not in months"
Her "I'm not answering your questions it's really irrelevant.
Me "How many men have been drug througg your kids lives in the past few years is irrelevant? "
Me "I am done and will file the divorce petition in August as your final parting gift. I am done being a fallback for someone who has zero respect for me".
Her "Take Care. And yes, your check will be in the mail tomorrow and I'll start working on refinancing"
Me "Which you committed to COMPLETE in March, but hey what's a committment right.... I hope you can find some self respect on your journey, Karma has a funny way of making that happen. And I'll be happy to take a check from him, or whomever else is in queue to purchase the car, not a problem."
Her "Shut up. We're not married anymore so I dont have to listen to that kind of [censored] talking from you!!!"
Me "As long as you can sleep at night Cassie... Eventually your conscience will find its way home, I hope for you and the kids sake anyway. "
Her "You're the last person on this PLANET who should be talking to me about living with a concsience. Leave me alone. I've nothing else to say to you. I'll be looking forward to the divorce papers. Let me know in advance when you want to get your things out of the garage please.
Me "Your playing me over Christmas for the car was utterly ludacris.
Her "I never played you! You forced it on me while all the time I was telling you I didn't want to be with you. You are in denial. Get some help. Your pics don't make me jealous. She can have you. Best witshes to you both. Same ole Ben. You will never change"
Me "I forgot "no" is such a hard word lol. I'm all good now. I have changed but you'll never see it. You aren't interested because you're in a fantasy world. When it crashes around you don't call me"
Her "Don't text me again you're out of control"
Me "We didn't even have time to arrange the family unit and make the marriage work. You gave up too easily. Read about it. I'm sorry for my failures, I wish i could go back and fix them because I think we could be happy, we were more often than not. Goodbye
Her: PS Don't mess with my family, friends, or with Michael. We all know how you are so I want to tell you in advance don't start any drama or crap. Just move on. "
Me "Already have, and I'm not, dont' worry nobody will get any Christmas cards..."
Me Later "I want to apologize for everything I said tonight. It's very hurtful to know that you are choosing your affair partner over your husband who tried to do nothing but make you happy and I got angry. I won't bother you anymore and hope you will give thought to what you're doing. If you choose to file in August I won't fight it.
So after this I have been 4 days totally dark, and I think is going to be a long streak, I understand she may never contact me again outside of matters of the car etc. And I am fine with that now.
In the midst of the first big 180 which is goinig dark. Plenty of GAL activities, Golf and Basketball leagues start first week of April. Spending plenty of time with family and friends, its good to get back to doiong thinks I enjoy that the marriage would not afford.
So work to be the best man I can be everyday. I am moving forward with my life, and it looks like my W and SC witll never be a part of it again. That is sad, but in the long run I will probably look at this as the right decision, even though my heart says otherwise. Nothing is over until it's over, but in my mind this is over now and I am at peace with it.
Thank you all for your opinions they are very baluable to me. I will make updates as they come along and chime in others people as I can. I am just happy to not be on edge anymore some of theses silly pills have miraculous effects...
Broken have you read the the rules below before?
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes
Yes Rick, I have read them and have threm printed and posted in three diffent places. When she would pull me back in I would basically start doing my own thing. Alhtough It's probably too little too late, All of these steps will be in my behavior, because I am not going to be reaching out or responding to her about anything, except the car transaction and remaining items.
I tried for force her hand on Sunday which was a mistake. But given her gall of coming out saying that she is seeing the same dolt she had the affair with TO THIS DAY I simply cannot tolerate that behavior. At some point a man has to maintain a shred of his own dignity.
I guess my behavior going forward can be consider real divorce busting, but the reason it is that way is because I don't care anymore.
My life will be taking on a level of simplicity that it hasn't had since before 2004. I'm starting to think of where my first trip will be, I have no kids so I can come and go as I please. I am bound and determined to make three people happy from this day forward, me, myself, and I, hopefully doing this many times via acts of service to others.
Four days no contact and I can definitely tell I am finding I am turning the corner. Every friend and family member that knows my sitch is extremely happy with my recent train of thought change. How can I love, honor, and respect a woman who refuses to show a single thimblefull of respect for me. I've came to grips with finanicial losses I have taken by my decision making, that is going to be a 180 I take forward in the future. Any woman who is going to interested in me is going to be for me, not by what I have or can provide. Those days are so over. Looking forward to Friday being over for an exciting GAL weekend. And when I've been here today I don't even dwell on her or my sitch, which each passing day and can see this is certainly going to get eaiser. Don't know if it's the meds or just my general change in attitude but I feel better now than I have in the past seven months, when I was at my lowest point Tuesday and Yesterday.
Thanks again to all of you for your kind words and advice, you are all the greatest and I wish the best to each and every one of you.
Closing in on a new world record! One week no contact by me whatsoever. Did get the car payment from her with a little stab, she just signed her first name on the return address of the envelope like she intentionally left off our last name although it's all over the check.
This really does get easier each day that I don't have contact with her. It will be interesting to see how and when she eventually reaches out to me because I am certainly not going to reach out to her in any way.
I haven't thought about what she's be doing or with whom and I think I have made great strides in detachment this week. Although it was not the path that I was wanting or planning to be on, it feels to good to be on a path at least. If she were to come wallowing back at this point I can safely say that ship has sailed and I will no longer be interested. I have decided I will be civil, even though her actions honestly don't even deserve that.
So I continue to GAL and have a great time, things at work are busy which is good, and I continue to work on myself to make me a man only a fool would leave (although I'm not worried about the W at this point). On a side note on 15 more Domestic Violence classes for me to attend prior to my record dismissal thanks to her blatant lies she penned to the police because I busted up her affair.
It is very hard to come to the conclusion that an intelligent, driven, successful guy as myself, voluntarily married into white trash. That's what I did and that's why I am here. I was suckered in by a pretty face and some off the charts sexual moves and glossed over a lot of red flags and negatives as a result of that. I should have never married this woman, and it has cost me dearly. She pushed extremely hard to get married, and now I see why, she got what she wanted, and now she's out. Such is life, but nothing like this will ever happen to me again.
So don't look once folks, look once, twice, three times for making that leap because you may end up with a snake like I did. Good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
It is very hard to come to the conclusion that an intelligent, driven, successful guy as myself, voluntarily married into white trash. That's what I did and that's why I am here. I was suckered in by a pretty face and some off the charts sexual moves and glossed over a lot of red flags and negatives as a result of that. I should have never married this woman, and it has cost me dearly. She pushed extremely hard to get married, and now I see why, she got what she wanted, and now she's out. Such is life, but nothing like this will ever happen to me again.
So don't look once folks, look once, twice, three times for making that leap because you may end up with a snake like I did. Good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
So tell us why you are posting here again?
Mainly to vent at this point 2the point. I plan to update when there is some movement from her as it will be interesting to see where she is. It will also be interesting to see if she ever shows any remorse for her actions as to how they have affected both myself and her children.
I sill have love for this woman despite everything that has gone on, and the only logical way I can come to terms with it is to realize that it was a huge mistake.
I also posted to serve as a warning to others to know who you are getting in bed with, because as numerous sitches on here prove, what you think you are getting versus what you actually get can be two different things entirely.
I am certainly not trying to "bring down" the community with the fact that my sitch is most likely unrecoverable. Unfortunately that is the reality of my sitch right now. There are 5 months that need to pass before the divorce can be filed, so who knows what will happen between now and then.
Man, I made it 23 days without a massive screwup, I think that's personal best! But when I go down, I go down in flames. I'll continue to journal here from time to time as a give-back exercise for DB's in the future NOT to do.
So I had been a few weeks no contact, and Friday afternoon she hits me up out of the blue, I waited until Sunday afternoon to respond with "what's up". No response from her. As I come back from my weekend trip I can see that she has been playing all of this woe is me/I want him back type music on my streaming music service that I never changed the password on so she can still use it. So mind reading at it's best takes over since I'm an idiot, and I logically thing most of these songs are projecting her thoughts toward me.
So what better action for me to take than PERSUE PERSUE PERSUE right? I sent her an e-card yesterday with no response, and then another one today and she called and the conversation started off pleasant and lighthearted. Then she goes down the road of would it be better if she doesn't respond or can we be adults about this etc. I explained when I saw what she was listening to it made me think and reach out to her, to which she responded she isn't thinking about anyone when she is listening to these songs that she just likes the music. I say fair enough and I will cease and desist. NOTE TO READERS MIND READING IS THE DEVILS WORKSHOP
Of course I am significantly spun up at this point. So I text to ask why did she contact me out of the blue on Friday and the following ensued:
Her: Only to talk about the car
Me: Fair enough, what about the car? Can we talk taxes too, eg your educational expenses and 9 months of daycare expenses. I filed an extension.
Her: I've already filed taxes. You get nothing for daycare because you have no dependents. If it makes you feel better I didn't get much back.
Me: Crazy how that works. I'm paying because I changed my witholding to put every dime I made toward your surgery debt. cest la vie I guess. Your educational expenses were billed to my credit cards, as was the match.com laptop supposedly for school. So what about the car?
Her: You are such an evil and immature person.
Me: I am evil and immature because your actions put ME over 30k in debt? How much debt do you have W? YOU bought a laptop on mycredit, opened a match.com account on it and THEN had an affair, and I am evil and immature? And then you stuck me with EVERY IOTA of EVERY BILL? Forget the taxes, I'll eat those too, if you can live with yourself I can live with the debt. What is the plan to close on the car? If you're available I can pick up my stuff from your house the weekend of mothers day.
Her: See why I don't respond to you... because this is what I have to deal with. Send me a date and time you'll be picking up your stuff and I'll try to be here. I HELPED PAY THE BILLS!!! Unless it's about you picking up your things, please don't contact me. There's nothing more to say.
Me: I express my love to you in every way I know how, and you consistently kick me in the face. After I forgive you in everything and did everything in my power to make things right. What about the car?
Her: And every time you follow up with your abusive statements and BS, only confirming that I'm doing the right thing.
Me: You continue to crush my heart for no reason when I was doing nothing but be nice to you.
Her: I can't finance a private party loan. I doubt you'll want to take it over, so the only thing I know to do is list it for sale. Is that ok with you?
Me: What did it hurt that I sent you an ecard yesterday and today? Really you had to call and tell me that was too much? Reread and tell me what is abusive and bs by the way. I realize that you feel guilty, but please don't spin it around and project that on me. Can you take the car and get an estimate on the damage and trade in value?
Her: Already did. $800 to repair the bumper. $17000 trade in.
Me: The logical move is to keep making the car payment, that is a no win situation for now, and I can't afford any further losses. We can put something in writing if you want.
Her: I will list it for sale and hope it sells while I'm making payments. I want no connection to you.
Me: I apologize I forced your dream car on you W. Me and my crazy wanting to make your dreams come true. Unconditional love is a crazy thing. I wish you would have had it for me.
Her: If the way you talk to me is unconditional love then I don't want anyone to ever love me again.
Me. I apologize if something I said hurt your feelings. What was it exactly? I poured my heart out to you earlier and you pulverized it! That HURT me to the core and made some of my statements pointed but nothing more. I am sorry and I LOVE YOU! Look at my actions recently not these words.
Her: Leave me alone. You still need help
Me: I need the support of my wife is all I need, that's really all I needed all along but that was the tough road. I apologize for airing my frustration, but I didn't say anything overtly hurtful or mean to you. If you disagree please point it out so I can understand. I'm sorry, I have forgiven you for all of our past and have nothing but love for you and hope for us.
So in summary:
1) So much for detachment
2) So much for any progress I may have made in the past three weeks, which was apparently none.
3) So much for me showing forgiveness since I keep up bringing up the old BS.
4) So much for controlling my anger after 13 weeks of DV classes because I still got spun up over this episode.
I continue to talk to friends about my situation. It seems that the recurring theme, is that the W throwing me in jail thing is a deal breaker in 90% of listeners. I honestly thought I was detached until I saw the music list and MIND READ until I BLEW EVERYTHING.
Obviously I am still of the thought we will be getting divorced in August. I haven't really been back here because it fuels my anxiety somewhat. My folks and everyone who has heard this situation outside of this forum has advised me to move on.
Damn I wish I could...
Good luck to all in your respective sitch's, I will try to get up and comment although obviously no one is in need of my advice lol
yeah... seems that didn't go so well...
but hey! 23 days without a massive screw up!
look, broken... you're fixing yourself and from what I read THEN to what I read now... you're a heck of a lot better...
Some wild thoughts in your head that migrate to your brain when they prolly shouldn't... so keep working on that... and get to working on stopping those thoughts...
We all want to see our spouses reaching out to us or suggestions that they are thinking about us... so we will pretend they exist, even if they don't... or worse... we will act on something that actually was accurate, only to have them deny it... and there's no way to know if we actually made a "right" guess...
which is why we say, the LBS SHOULD NOT MIND READ!
It ain't over unless you want to listen to the folks who tell you to move on...
And you can choose to move on, but you can keep working on you and be open to what ever may happen in the future... whether it has to do with a new love (with the benefit of your new, better self) or... some other person... you know...?
Thanks Kaffe,
You're right man, the mind reading was my Waterloo. I am still mind reading but the list was so scattered and the themes so much the same I think she is denying it. The old me would deny her from the service but I'm not going to do that. I'll continue contributing to my stepkids 529k's instead, for them not for her.
I'm very disappointed in myself that I didn't handle this the right way. The ecards were bad enough but obviously I shouldn't have taken her phone call. I am in a much better place than I started here, largely in part to you guys feedback. I am very busy with many gal activities including courting a few very attractive and successful ladies. They know my situation in that the book isn't closed so I'm just enjoying my freedom for now.
The thing that I know is despite my flippant nature on here due to the hurt of the day, is that I truly love my wife and stepkids. I have effectively "got my mojo" back, know that I am going to be successful and happy regardless of this outcome, and that I will land with a more than wonderful woman, first choice being my wife, as there a few pining for me now.
But all that said, I wish my W would show up on my doorstep tonight wanting to talk. Hell she could be engaged to the OM for all I know, I haven't seen her since February. Haven't really thought about that until my tirade today. Maybe that's progress!
I know I'm going to get some 2x4 for dating, but as far as I'm concerned I wouldnt be gal without doing so.
Thanks again Kaffe and good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
So it's time for the 4th quarter push for me. 4 months and 8 days until the eligible filing date.
I had a good dialogue with one of my mentors yesterday and he really helped me out:
From my mentor:
I was thinking this afternoon. A rare occurrence.
What you described fits exactly the purpose of the law to require a year of separation before a divorce is final.
The purpose of the separation is to allow the husband and wife enough time to see if they can reconcile.
The things that you are doing for your wife and step children fit perfectly with the intent of the law.
No matter what the outcome is at the end of the year (or whatever time it turns out to be), you will be able to look yourself in the mirror and say "I gave it my best shot. I didn't give up on the possibility of saving our marriage."
It also seems to me that if you didn't do what you feel is right and the marriage ends, you might end up kicking yourself for not doing the things that you are doing.
I am not trying to give you advice, but just some insight to what may be going on "behind the scenes of your emotions and logic".
When God turns us into a caring critter instead of a self serving CAD, a lot of things happen that don't seem logical or normal. Maybe that is at work, too.
My response:
The thing that I am having a hard time getting my head around is, given everything that she has done and given the way she has treaded me in spite of the things I've done, is logically why am I even trying anymore. I have forgiven her in my heart but regardless of that I have not been able to forget and when she hurts me I bring up her wrongdoings which I have to stop doing, especially since I say I have forgiven her.
Either of us is eligible to file for divorce on August 27th. I've decided today that I'm going to put the amount of her car payment into a 529k for the kids up to the point if and when she decides to officially file the divorce. I can afford to do it, and I know that she loves her kids more than she loves herself so I can't think of any better way to show the sincerity of my heart since she has no desire to spend time with me.
Then the fact that I am involved with other women complicates matters. I originally started things up as a way to try and make my wife jealous to no avail, and now I am starting to have feelings when I should be concentrating on our marriage. I am really trying to live right but am still failing in a myriad of ways. I pray everyday for my wifes heart to change and have been since this started to no avail. I still go the Lambs Chapel in XXX for both Sunday services usually hoping that she and the kids will eventually show up there also to no avail thusfar.
I've been dealing with this personal hell for basically 8 months so I can certainly make it another 4. And you're right, I can honestly say that I've done everything that I could do, regardless of what happens. I know I'll be fine and eventually happy either way.
Mentor's response:
I guess from my own experience, forgiving and forgetting are two different sides of the same coin.
I suspect it will be extremely difficult to ever forget the things that happened. Forgiving them means you are not "holding her hostage" or "trying to get back at her" or "trying to get her to live or be a certain way". The scars from bad behavior are permanent. The importance of the event can diminish over time but the memory probably will remain.
Part of forgiving and accepting what happened, may be the aspect of "can I trust her in the future to not do the same things?"
It is all pretty complicated. The 8 months you can gone through is proof of the complexity.
So in summary, this is my final game plan:
1) Back to LRT/no contact unless she initiates and NO REACTIONS/WALK AWAY when she pushes my buttons. I have yet to be successful in the latter.
2) Prove my forgiveness by NEVER BRINGING UP HER PAST INDESCRETIONS AGAIN.
3) I am contributing $400 a month into my stepchildrens 529k's with no expectations. I am still married, they are still my stepkids, I love them and I am happy to do this out of the kindness of my heart with no expectations. I set W up as the administrator of the plans which proves my sincerity in this action.
4) I GAL everyday I basically have no free or idle time. Work is going well, golf leagues and basketball are in effect, and I catch up with friends on a daily basis. I have female companionship if desired although I have decided I am going to tone that down to see how this last scene plays out.
I know I am not still fully detached because of my reactions on Monday. Still working on that piece. I can't think of any better way to show my unconditional love for them by trying to help with my stepchildrens future. I know she loves them more than she does herself, so I am bypassing her and projecting my unconditional love straight to them with no expectations. I can't think of anything else I can do since she still is cold toward talking/seeing me or allowing me to spend time with the kids.
I know I am going to be ok either way, and I am prepared to served papers in August. I can go to sleep at night knowing that I've left it all on the floor and did the best I could to save my marriage.
Can anybody think of a better plan or have constructive feedback on this approach?
Thanks in advance for any feedback and good luck to all of you in your respective sitch's!
Forgive? Of course...
Forget...? Well, time may actually create a life where the moment of the memory is quite dim... but never forget the lesson... for without the learning... might require a re-audit...
A lesson that I feel many here are want to learn is that while our M does not define us and our spouse is free to make their own choices and our children are the most important thing as we recover and save ourselves...
There is nothing more important than our relationship with our partner... whether we R our M... or we enter a new R...
We may forget that unconditional love is limitless...
the capabilities of two people working together is greater than the sum of the individual(s) parts... and the children can benefit exponentially because of that...
Thanks Kaffe! I appreciate your feedback.
I agree and suffice to say I think I have definitely learned my lesson(s) in this regard.
The thing about the kids at this point is as much as I would love to treat them as my own, they are my stepchildren not by biological children(side note I have no children of my own). That dynamic makes things harder in this case, as although I've asked to spend time with them she doesn't allow that to happen because she doesn't want them confused. My oldest SS wanted to play tennis a few weeks ago but W wasn't on board with that.
So the only card I have left is my unconditional love. I want to give them my time and attention but that is now allowed. The only thing I could think to do was to show caring for them by investing in their future, because that's something I can afford to do without any "OK" from her. I am doing this with no expectations which is a good thing because she hasn't acknowledged anything I've set up as yet, and that is totally fine by me. I hope she does send me the car/insurance payment soon since that is due on the 26th...
At any rate, any other thoughts from anyone as to if this is a good or bad idea? It is not a 180 for me because I have always been very giving toward them, and in a way it is like I am force feeding cake because I can't think of any other way to prove my unconditional love since we are not seeing or speaking to each other at all. Does anyone think this is a stupid idea?
In other news I had a tremendously enjoyable and relaxing weekend and hope everyone else here did the same. Good luck to all of you in your respective sitch's! :-)
My D14 is legally my child, whom I've known and raised as my own for 12 years... yet like you, it remains that I am not her bio father and will never replace that person, no matter how much he is or is not part of her life or is or is not a positive role model in my or other's opinions...
I have seen many step parents counter-mine a child's bio parents and the results appear harmful to all parties. Heck... this happens between bio parents, as well...
We can attempt to protect our children throughout their lives from all evils... but unless we can keep them in a bubble... there's nothing we can do to prevent life from having an affect on them... because what we can control from one vector... can get to them by any of the millions of other vectors...
The best we can do... whether they are our bio, legal, or step children...
Is to love them unconditionally... and at minimum provide for them their basic needs... and be the best mentor and support that we can be... when and if they need. Even a bio child around, for sure beginning around their teen years... are absolutely sure that in many, if not most of their thoughts and beliefs and actions... are right...
Love them unconditionally... and there for your them when life nails them... and all will be good in the world...
Yes, providing financially for them... for their future... is a great idea. Although my only thought on that is that it is money... not love... it is an ACT of love, sure... but it is not a replacement for love...
Also, if there are any public events that you are free to attend, that your kids are attending or participating in... be there for them. Even if they are not aware that you are... because it is a great, parental thing to do...
Once they are adults, your relationship with them is between you and them... that will be up to you to nurture and maintain into the future and theirs to allow or deny...
Thanks again Kaffe, you always put things into perspective and in very eloquent fashion.
I do wish I could do other things to show them love, but because of my W actions my hands are tied at this point. When HS football season starts up I am planning to go to some of the games to support my oldest SS who is in the band. Ironically I had taken him and my other SS to a band competition the night I found out about W affair. Man you are right forgiving is one thing but forgetting another entirely, it is crazy how many things bring that to the forefront of my mind. Still working that piece...
So I am just going to keep on keeping on. 58 days until summer and I will be 20lbs lighter at least by then. Bring it on!!!
Thanks again and have a good week! :-)
So it would appear that my W is trying to push my buttons remotely... I had asked that she remit her car payments by the 20th, they are due on the 26th. I've already paid the car and insurance payment for the month, in addition to funding $400 into my oldest SS 529account I set up this month. I've received nothing from her thusfar to date as far as a car/insurance payment. I am 100% liable for this vehicle in every respect aside from her driving it (because her credit's wrecked I nice guyed up to try and make her Christmas)
She received the account notification for the 529k and sent it to me Monday with an email asking is that something I set up, I said yes and noted she is the admin on the account, and that I am doing that for them (stepchildren) not that I expect it to change anything between us. We haven't spoke or communicated beyond that since the 18th I think.
So, I'd be lying if I said I'm not start getting a little ticked. I had no expectations with the 529k contribution, and no surprise I didn't get so much as a thank you in that regard. Her not remitting the car payment in a timely manner however is really chapping my hide. So I'm thinking (not mindreading) the possibilities are:
1) She forgot it which is quite possible because she is just like that, that's why I used to handle all the bills.
2) She doesn't care and/or is trying to elicit a negative reaction from me.
3) She doesn't care and is going to milk me for what she can until she files (don't know if or when that will happen although is a legal possibility on 8/27).
4) She has hit her first significant financial stumbling block, and can't pay it, and is embarrassed to relay that fact to me.
I'm thinking the check will probably show up this weekend, but I won't know that because I'll be on a GAL trip in Virginia :-)
So my 180 for this episode is going to be ignore this for now and DO NOTHING. That's right folks, I'm not going to call, email, text or otherwise, because although it irks me given her behavior over the past 8 months it's no surprise. But the best thing is, I have better things to do with my time than to worry about her BS behavior at this point! And really in the grand scheme of things what's $400 when she's already %*#&ed me out of 30k. lol
And it only took me 8 months to get here!!! lol
For any newbies, please heed the advice of the vets here and don't go rogue like I did! I wish I would have found this site in August/Sept instead of January because I think I could have avoided a lot of nonsense if that would have happened. Only time will tell if it was too late when I found this valuable place and you kind people that make it as such.
It is nice to be enjoying life again, although I am not going too crazy. I will say the ladies most definitely appreciate the new threads my W suggested I pick up when we last hung out. The words that come to mind for me a lot frequently are "her loss".
Hope everyone has a spectacular weekend as I know I will. Good luck to all of you in your respective sitch's!
Broken your post is full of expectations. Read it again
Thanks for your feedback Rick! I only put part of the story up in this post, but I think I literally have no expectations at this point, it would be utterly illogical for me to have any, because she is giving little to inclination to the fact I even exist at this point.
There was preexisting arrangement that she would be making the car and insurance payments on the 20th of each month, that has been in place since December, and she hasn't missed a beat until now. So I guess there are "business" expectations in that she committed to pay on time, but there are no personal/relationship expectations tied to this. When I bought the car did I think it may help, of course I certainly didn't think it would hurt. She always loved my "making her dreams come true" which is what I was trying to do. Obviously a big mistake that allowed her to cake eat I should have never done it.
I don't have any expectations tied to the 529k investments. I will never see those again and am doing that because I think it is the right thing to do for my stepchildren. Their biological fathers will never provide as such, and there's no guarantee that she'll find another man that will, so I'm doing that because they deserve a shot as well. They had no choice in who their mother chose to lay down with or throw away.
So the only expectation I have is that she pay the car payment like she gave her word she would do, if anything changes in our R in the future it will be by her choice, I am doing my thing and showing unconditional love in the only way I can think of given where we are at this point.
I have certainly proven myself to be dense in the past however, so if you see other expectations I have not mentioned can you spell them out for me? I am still very much learning here, if I would have listened earlier on I would probably be in a different situation entirely.
Thanks again Rick!
So the W came correct with the car payment via snail mail over the weekend. She even sent the May payment which was surprising. I could see there was a note with the checks which made me nervous and excited at the same time. Obviously nothing to get nervous or excited about given I am dealing with a WAW likely in the midst of a MLC. Here's the note:
H,
I hope you are well. Enclosed is this month's payment and a post-dated check for next month's payment (so it's not delayed by my forgetfulness).
I am working on a plan to repair the bumper and sell the car. In the meantime I bought SS1 a very cheap car to show an installment loan on my credit in case the car doesn't sell and I have to attempt to secure a private loan again.
Hoping to have all of this taken care of and off your credit soon.
Thanks for your patience!
W
Even I can't muster something worth mind-reading out of this one. So obviously I am not responding in any way and will maintain my darkness with the exception of cashing the check.
Less than 4 months until the eligible D-filing day. I haven't seen her or my stepkids since Mid-February and I have no idea what or how any of them are doing for all practical purposes. I think I am starting to get the hint here... lol
A bit of a minefield in the month of May... 2 year anniversary of her surgery on the 6th and 2nd anniversary on the 21st. Have to mentally prepare to do nothing on these days lol.
Other than the fact that I still love my W and can't get her or my stepkids out of my head, life is great! GAL activities out the wazoo, very little free time, and I can't say I'm lonely. The problem is I'm not spending time with the woman I want to be with...
So time to hunker down for the 4th quarter... The only way she'll know I exist is when my 529k contributions hit my stepkids accounts. What a long hard road this is...
Good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
broken-
i have now read your entire thread..wow.. we have alot of similar ways of dealing with things the wrong way. lol.. i will try to learn from your mistakes.
thank you for the feedback today. i appreciate it
You're welcome Heartbroke, yeah don't follow in my footsteps I've made significant blunders along the way.
Man I'm not sure why but I'm having significant struggles today. Haven't spoken with her almost 3 weeks our last communication was a brief email on the 23rd, and her sending the checks and letter that I got on Sunday. I honestly think seeing her handwriting got me spun up which is ridiculous, that or the fact that she was thinking about me for a brief moment even though only related to financial matters.
I really want to reach out to her but since that HASN"T WORKED for 8 months I'm going to stay the course, I have no other choice as my hourglass is running out.
I would like to elicit other opinions on the 529k investments for my stepchildren. Since it is for them, and not for her, this would not be considered a pursuing behavior right? I want to do it for them, and think that it shows a 180 for me since it is a way to show unconditional love for them, but I am wondering if that "tie" could prove negative since I am in effect still "doing something" that shows I am "still here". She hasn't mentioned anything about it at all, and I think it is the right thing to do from my heart, so unless anyone thinks that is a pursuing behavior I'm going to continue to do it.
Thanks in advance for any feedback and good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
Hey DB'ers!
Can I get a little love on a poll please? I haven't spoke to my W in two weeks, and we've exchanged one email in that time, with my explaining the 529k's for my stepkids.
So the question I am begging opinion on is:
Is putting a monthly deposit in my Stepchildren's 529k accounts I set up pursuing behavior?
Since it doesn't directly benefit my W I don't think it is, and I very well respect Kaffe Diem's opinion that is a good thing to show unconditional love within the confines in which I have to work (my spending time with stepchildren is out of bounds at this point). I realize that money does not equal love obviously, but given my time and attention are worthless if not negative value at this point, this is the best idea I could come up with. I would really appreciate some additional opinions on this because it does kind of fall in a "gray area".
Thanks in advance for your opinions and good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
Man tough crowd today lol ;-)
I'm going to go with this is not pursuing behavior since I am doing this for my stepkids...
Going to be a tough weekend, plenty of GAL activities planned but Sunday is a day of significance. Two years to the day that I went on a limb prior to our getting married to have her plastic surgery done to try and make her happy. She keeps talking about how she can't "risk" giving us another chance. I'm going to want to go on a tirade about how she has no idea what "risk" is, given that I built a 5 bedroom house so she could get full custody of her kids and went out on a limb for her surgery PRIOR to our getting married. It's all good and I've fully forgiven her for the wreckage I got left with though... Hopefully in time I'll be able to forget. I'm finally DB'ing so I'm certainly not going to be stupid on this day that she probably won't even think about, but it will still be a hard day for me...
I haven't spoke to her in two weeks, aside from one email exchange. For those who went through the "no communication" period with your spouse, how long does this usually last? I won't be the one that breaks the radio silence this time...
Enjoy your GAL weekend and good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
good luck today broken. its gotta be tough. i hope your weekend is good!
Is putting a monthly deposit in my Stepchildren's 529k accounts I set up pursuing behavior?
Just ask yourself why you're REALLY doing it. If it truly is for the kids, then do it. But just never, ever bring it up. Ever.
Good luck with radio silence too. Hang on as long as you can!
Thanks guys I appreciate it. And you're right Ben, this is totally for the kids I have no expectations. I've shot myself in the foot by bringing up things I've done in the past so I'm not going to botch this one up in the same way. Man I wish it would not have taken me 8 months to finally figure this stuff out...
Good luck!!!
Well it was time i was due for a stumble, and I did a bit but I think it may actually help me out in the long run. Yesterday was the 2 year anniversary of her surgery, I sent the following text:
Never told you this. Two years ago today the receptionist at the surgeons office came and consoled me as I had a nervous breakdown when the nurse told me just 210 more stitches and you'd be put back together. She said I must be the greatest husband, and I said we were'nt married yet but I couldn't wait... It was painful to watch you recover but I loved taking care of you. I hope that ordeal brough you happiness if for only one fleeting moment. Aside from my problem induced behavior that's all I ever wanted to do. I hope you and the kids are doing well.
She responded
You did take good care of me. Thank you for that.
Then I flip into pursuit mode with
Have dinner with me tomorrow at 7, not a date.
She responds
Can't. I have a proctored exam Tuesday that I'll be cramming for.
I reply
I know you'll make an A. :-) Good Luck!
But, the bigger breaking news is that I noticed today that she unblocked me from facebook, so she is doing some type of investigating on her own. I won't mindread as to why but that is an interesting development. At least her photo is of her and my SD and not her and another man.
I put together a little study care package and am going to drop it at her door ironically after my domestic violence class (only 12 left!) lol. Nothing major, a nice pen, some index cards, post it notes, aromatherapy candle, some of her favorite candy, a $10 Starbucks gift card, with just a note on the bag that says Good Luck on your test!
I know this is not divorce busting, but I also know this will make her day. Something is going on in her mind based on snooping about my facebook, I know this is not Divorce Busting but I am going to try and strike while the iron is hot.
Thoughts including 2x4's are welcomed, I have until 7:30pm to decide if I'm going to drop off the care package or not.
Thanks in advance and good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
So the care package was well received, she sent me the following:
Very Thoughtful, Thank You! I needed that stuff! Well, not so much the candy, but the other stuff. No luck on the lottery ticket but I can leave it in the mailbox if u wanna doublecheck it. Lmbo
I responded:
You're welcome. Some of the candy is for the kids you know. I thought that ticket was a winner for sure, I've been on a good luck streak lately!. I got promoted to program manager. Good luck on your test, I know you'll do great, I'm still your biggest fan.
Her response:
Congrats on your promotion, you change roles then?
My response:
Thanks, yeah ironically the guy I replaced in 2007 is going to replace me. Myself and three others have been tasked to reorg the entire department, and I'll be managing the newly created QA arm. None of it has been announced yet but we should be finished by June.
So, not divorce busting by any stretch, but the most amicable conversation we have had in 8 months. I know she loved the care package, and the thought I put into it (nothing was expensive so I'm not trying to "buy" her love) via what I included I think will really make her think. I used to do things like this all of the time, by her own admission my thoughtful/romantic inclinations were one of the things that made her fall in love with me.
So now I go dark, although I am going to send her a card or something for Mother's day, because she really is an amazing Mom given everything she has been through in her life.
The facebook change is the catalyst that shows something is going on in her head, but I won't speculate as to what, there is absolutely no reason why she would have unblocked me otherwise.
It's going to be an interesting 4th quarter, and ironically almost time to start a new thread!
Good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
Broken stop assuming and stop Persuing her. Yes not DBIng but no one is a professional at this. I think you really care for her? Even tho at times you try and put up that wall of not caring for her. Are you snooping her FB page? You know what happens , if u do right?
Hi Rick,
You're right, I have had my days, and I have tried to talk myself out of loving her, but despite all logic, I still do. And despite all my friends and families opinion, I still want to try and work things out.
I am guilty of pursuit in this case, and violating the 37 rules in this case. But in this case I did what I felt would work (given the information she shared in having a test), and for today it did. She appreciated the thoughtfulness of the gesture and it should have made remember the man she fell in love with. I'm going back dark now, I will not be the one to reach out next time. What I did flies in the face of DB'ng principles, but I go with my gut and I feel like today at worked.
Regarding FB, we're not friends so I can't see her page. What I noticed today was when I went through one of my private photos (I have hid all existence of her photos on my page), her profile picture showed up with her name which proves that she has unblocked me. So that proves she made the conscientious decision to take that step, so the shoe is on the other foot this time, she is snooping me for some reason. She had me blocked from the time we separated up to either this weekend or today (I was out GAL all weekend so I wouldn't know ;-) ).
I am trying to remain detached, I had no expectations for what I did today. It was nice that she recognized my thoughtfulness and it made me happy that I made her smile.
I am GAL like a madman and doing my thing. I am dating someone and she is a wonderful woman and we have a great time. I fully have my Mojo back, I am the man that she fell in love with again, minus the herum this time. The difference between now and when I started here in January is that I know I'm going to be fine and happy either way this pans out. Maybe she senses that somehow and is getting curious, that's for her to know and me not to mind read about.
I have a feeling that my sitch is about to take some kind of turn though, only time will tell!
Thanks for your post and keeping me in line Rick! I deviate badly sometimes but I honestly think this one was worth it. Based on some of our recent exchanges I wanted to her know that I still care, and today showed a side of the man she fell in love with is still there, with bells on.
Good luck to all of you in your respective sitch's!
Broken you are dating someone but want your wife back? Common? Only you know what is best for you but be careful of rebound R. They usually don't work out well.
Yeah I agree Rick, although I can't really consider this a relationship we're just seeing each other, she knows my story and that the divorce isn't final. This is something that just happened in the process of GAL over the last few months, didn't plan on it happening. I determined I wasn't going to put my life on total hold for my WAW who wasn't showing two flips about me in any way though, so I guess that allowed it to happen.
So I'm an IT guy by trade, and was quite intrigued by the fact that the W unblocked me on FB for some reason. Me being the Mangum PI as previously proven, decided to unblock the OM and see what would come up. I figured nothing in that surely unless he has a screw loose he would have me blocked. Surprisingly he doesn't, and from this I ascertained that W and the OM are at a minimum still linked on FB. Stupid I know and very well could mean nothing, but that certainly helps me turn the switch back off.
It amazes me how dense I continue to be in this. There is a written process to follow that has worked but I refuse to adhere to said process, thinking I know a better way. I still think that my actions of yesterday were beneficial, although based on how I feel now I honestly should have never contacted her on Sunday. Our communication and everything was nothing but positive, but now I feel like @ss because it's proven she is still linked to OM at some level.
So I should go dark entirely through Mothers day and our anniversary obviously correct? Mothers day is next Sunday our Anniversary is Monday 5/21.
Something is going on her head though, what it is I don't know nor will I worry about anymore. Just another self-induced setback for me... grrrrrrrrrrrrr On a positive note I'm not flipping out nor do I need a time-out, 15 domestic violence classes at work!!! roflmao
Good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
First off, I know this is mind reading, but beyond a shadow of a doubt there is something going in my W's head. She has been playing this and many other "I messed up/take me back" songs repeatedly on a daily basis. This one a number of times yesterday, it could be considered the "WAS Anthem" IMHO.
Artist: Phone Calls From Home lyrics
Title: Forget You
I'm out of luck, I'm out of state
Call on the phone
Is it too late to talk this over with you?
They tell me that it's okay to be out of line,
To make mistakes
To lie and say, I'll be fine without you
How am I gonna take the fall, forget you?
Try to move on without you
Oh, oh.
I can't let go.
How am I gonna take the fall, forget you?
I'll try to move on without you.
Oh, oh.
I can't let go.
I lost your trust, I broke your heart
Two kids in love, cursed from the start
Is this false hope?
I can't decide
But I just can't let you go
Honestly imagine what we could be
Could you bare to let me go?
Could you live without me now?
I need to know
Could you bare to let me go?
How am I gonna take the fall, forget you?
Try to move on without you
Oh, oh.
I can't let go.
How am I gonna take the fall, forget you?
I'll try to move on without you.
Oh, oh.
I can't let go.
I'll take back every word
Let's go back to where we were before
In love
Take me back
We'll find the way, I lost track
I'm ready to change for you
For good.
Take the fall, forget you
Try to move on without you
Oh, oh.
I can't let go.
How am I gonna take the fall, forget you?
I'll try to move on without you.
Oh, oh,oh.
How am I gonna take the fall, forget you?
Try to move on without you
Oh, oh.
I can't let go.
How am I gonna take the fall, forget you?
I'll try to move on without you.
Oh, oh.
I can't let go.
How am I gonna take the fall, forget you?
Try to move on without you
Oh, oh.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
Couple this with the fact that she unblocked me on FB, and the positive exchanges that we had Sunday/Monday, it seems that she is wanting to start reeling back in a bit but is probably scared or ashamed. I KNOW THIS IS MIND READING BUT I CAN"T HELP IT.
I reiterate that I am GAL out the wazoo and am TRYING to be detached. I know I will be fine if we D beyond a SHADOW OF DOUBT. BUT I can't help but feel that my sitch is about to take some type of turn and it is FREAKING ME OUT.
I really could use some veteran feedback on how to handle mothers day and our anniversary (5/21). Should I go dark and let her simmer, or do something thoughtful but inexpensive like I did with the care package for her exam which she liked and shows a Man only a fool would leave. I've also continued the 529k investments for my stepchildren and have not and will not be mentioning these at all.
I am finally at the point where I HAVE FORGIVEN her and am leaving the past in the past and that our marriage as we knew it is over. I can honestly say I am not going to bring up the past again. She is probably gunshy because every time we have talked in the past prior to our last exchanges, things have got heated and I have brought up her transgressions in some way. I am not going to do that anymore, without her saying anything, based on the music she is listening to it seems obvious that she is remorseful for her affair and what she put me through.
The timing is on par with something she had said previously, alluding to this month being 8 months of our "sitch" versus the 8 months I was unfaithful to her while we were dating. Maybe she is getting to the point of feeling we are on "even ground" so to speak.
So 2x4's are welcomed because I know this is all MIND READING but the preponderance of the evidence is there that SOMETHING IS GOING ON IN HER HEAD and it is DRIVING ME CRAZY.
So should I do something thoughtful for mothers day/anniversary or go dark?
AAAAAAAAAAAAarrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhh so frustrating but I am handling things so much different now...
Thanks in advance for any feedback and good luck to all in your respective sitch's!
And she just created a new LinkedIn account with 0 connections and checked me out on there as well, so without question something is going on in her head... Man I have been off the roller coaster for the most part time to strap back in apparently.
Broken why ask for guidance if you are not going to listen to it?
Hey Rick,
I have listened to every piece of advice I have ever received here, although I haven't necessarily followed the advice I have received.
For example the advice would have been not to drop to the study package, but that worked, made my wife happy, yielded a pleasant exchange and now there are positive signs that she is gaining interest again via her "snooping".
This is my 4th quarter with goal to go, and I don't have any room for any more mistakes in the game. I know that the DB advice would be to go dark over mothers day and our anniversary, given things are seemingly on an upslope now and my thoughful gesture "worked" it is hard for me to think of not doing something meaningful for her on these two special occasions, I know this woman like the back of my hand, she thrives on attention, not being ignored. Special occasions specifically, I have been going dark otherwise. My wife's love language is receiving gifts, that being said I feel it is going to benefit me to do something thoughtful, not expensive, on these two days.
Maybe my rogueness and lack of implementing the advice I receive in my thread is why I don't get too much advice anymore. I think I am at a very important time in my sitch, I know the rules and the principles, but every situation is different and there are exceptions to every rule. I am in the most positive position I have been in 8 months as she is seeking me out, albeit to a very small degree.
Ironically it's time for a new thread. I'm going to summarize my sitch in bullet point form there so people don't have to read through all my nonsense.
Thanks again and good luck to all in your respective sitch's!