So here is my sitch and history.
Married 6yrs 5yr old son. Both of us have divorced parents. Me 33 W 28. We swore to each other to always be faithful and we could work thru the rest.
Her mother died about a yr ago from cancer. 4 months ago she got a promotion that required us to move far away from family and sell our house. Me and S stayed behind for a while to quit my job, pack our house, get it ready for sale.
Me and S get to new location. We live in a hotel for 2 weeks waiting on the movers to deliver our stuff but that’s another story. We are from the country and we move to a major metro area. Not my style at all. Getting a city job with my country skills is proving to be difficult.
Well we get settled in and this new job is not what either of us thought it would be. She is compensated well but is working crazy hours. Stays at hotels an avg of 2 days a week. When she’s home she leaves at 8ish. Gets home at 6 some days but mostly after 8. And then she works on the computer till after midnite, I have some job offers but none fit into our schedule. I have to be available to drop-off and pick-up S every day from daycare. All she has to do is go to work and come home. I am taking care of the rest.
I was bitter and a jerk towards her. She has not said thanks or good job for anything I have done lately. I gave up everything to make her happy with a new job. Because I felt she deserved something good to happen to her after the year she was having. Then 1-16-12 the bomb drops. I love you but not in love with you.
Hi there,
I am sorry you are going through such a tough time. I hope you can talk to a DB coach, because this is the type of situation that they can help you figure out how to do things differently to get a different response from her. It is not only important for the relationship, but for your son. There is a wonderful coach still available today, if you call me I can give you details. Take care. Karen
Hi there pulpwood,
I'm sorry that you find yourself here. It's sounds like you have a pretty full plate and now it seems like it just got more full. Unfortunately, you have a pretty long road ahead of you, so start learning to be patient NOW!! This is a great support group and there will be lots of great feedback. You are definately not alone in this sitch. We are all struggling together.
The following 'rules' are credited to Sandi2 (someone who successfully reconciled her M.. read her threads). They seem to be completely opposite of our instincts, and that's kinda the point. This will be the hardest thing you will ever have to endure, and as they say on here: this is a marathon, not a sprint. 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
If you haven't yet you should really get and read DB and DR books. They are very helpful!
You may as well sit back and get as comfortable as possible because this is gonna be the craziest rollercoaster ride of your life!
Thanks for the support.
I have seen a lot of great info on here. Been lurking quite a bit. I found DR within 2 days of the bomb. Started working on me right then. Realized i was doing all the wrong things. I'm doing much better on me now.
I did screw up major 10 days ago. I was seeing improvments. But I had to go make things worse. I was snooping for an affair because the all knowing internet said all the signs are there. Well I found evidence. Nothing concrete but lies and fishy behaviors. She rode 4hrs to a 2 day meeting with a male coworker. Lied to me and told me she drove there herself. Well my demons got the best of me and I confronted her. I had to drag it out of her but she told me yes she did and in fact drove an hour out of the way to meet him at a hotel parking lot no less. A hotel in which she stayed at the night she got back from her meeting and he dropped her off. However the reciept was in his name. He and his wife live in this town. Anyway she said he is just a nice guy, she didn't want to drive, and nothing is going on. I'm crazy and she is done, DONE.
I call her a liar and pack my stuff. She stops me, thank GOD. I stay and now here I am. I have done nothing to get off DB program since but not seeing improvments. She is cold and has taken off her ring. We only talk about S and work.
She did call me during the middle of the day a couple days ago to tell me some exciting news at work. Someone under her stealing stuff and she found the evidence. She was very excited and I just listened. It was nice.
So I know I have screwed up and how that behavior sets you back. lesson learned. I have stopped snooping. It only hurts me. No need to torment myself. She left Mon for meeting and be back Fri night. I call her in a.m. so S can say good morning. She calls right at bed time to tell S good night. That has been the extent of it this week. S always says here you wanna talk to dad. S we talk for just a second. I say have a nice day or whatever in my upbeat voice . She says ok in her depressed one.
I had a great interview today. Didn't tell her about it although I wanted to call her so bad. Should know by Mon if I got the job.
Been working out and feeling better about myself. Getting the guns and abs back in working order. Havn't been eating much or sleeping either. Depression I know. Doing my best to snap out of it.
I have been very thankful for what I do have lately. My eyes are open now. That feels great. To be aware.
She has not said that she wants a divorce. We still live together. These are good things. I need to get ahead of this thing. Start being the man I used to be. I am well on my way.
My wife did not call tonite. Bedtime for S is at 9. She has always called before. Hope nothing is wrong. She is due back from a meeting tomorrow nite. I did not call her. Not sure if I did wrong or right. Any suggestions? Oh she just called as I'm typing this. She asked what is S doing. I said he's been in bed since 9. (Its 9:35 now.) She says ohhhh. Why didn't you call so he could say goodnite? I said well you always call so I figured you were busy. She said have him call me in the morning. I say ok goodbye.
I was very pleasant and upbeat.
So how do I handle these situations? Should I have called? I am trying the LRT. I think I handled it the right way. S did not say hey lets call mom. If he would have then we would. What do ya'll think? Is it some kind of test?
Anyway she said he is just a nice guy, she didn't want to drive, and nothing is going on. I'm crazy and she is done, DONE.
Does she still say she is done?
I am going to say that usually in these situations where there is smoke there is fire.
She lied to you. That in itself is not part of a healthy relationship.
Would you do that?
Are you crazy for thinking that honesty and forthrightness should be part of a healthy M?
She is not going to admit to an affair.
Other man Nice guy? Not f@cking likely.
I am not trying to stir this up I am preparing you for the most likely scenario.
Start being the man I used to be. I am well on my way.
This is where to put your effort.
Also. If there is an affair. Do you want to save your M?
Why?
TG - if there is an affair? Hmmm. Been thinking about that alot. More than I'd like to. It makes me sick to my stomach.
I would like to save my M for S. That is the right thing to do as we are always civil and have NEVER argued in front of him. All is still healthy in the parenting category I think.
As for saving it for me and if it is even possible. Still thinking on that one. I always thought no. Affair would be the last straw. A line in the sand. Now I feel so much hurt when I allow myself. Just got to put that out of my mind for now. It's the only way I can stay sane. I'm not snooping. I will have to deal with that if it comes to light as many on here have said it will. My logic says there is something to it. My heart says no she is a good woman, he is ugly, too old (45ish), and gross. My wife is a knock-out and could do WAY better than that.
I know this man has been at the same meeting all week. She has not mentioned him and I have asked nothing. And I do mean nothing.
So wife got home tonite at 10:00. She walks in carrying 4 wii games. S has been in bed but comes in to greet her. He says "wow mom where did you get all those games." She says "well moms friend gave them to me to give to you. His little boy didn't want them anymore."
She told me she was in a meeting all week. This dude brings gifts for my son to a business meeting? Maybe she has been to his house. Who knows. Not me.
Grrr.
Kids are generally good natured but I have not known many to give up toys easily. Most kids know you can take old games to the game store and trade em in.
This strikes me as way weird. Anyone else?
S shows them to me cause he's all pumped up. I act excited with him.
Nothing is said between me and W. I bite my lip. I never let on that this upset me. She goes to the bedroom after she gets him back in bed. I doubt I will see her again tonite. Tomorrow is a new day. I am proud I did not make a deal out of this or even address it as I would surely feel like and be a true A$$
Maybe I am going crazy. Paranoid.
We went to the park with S yesterday. I asked him if he wanted to go and well she just kinda invited herself. Thats good though cause it means i didn't have to invite. It was the first time we have all been in the same car since holiday traveling. She talked the whole ride there about her troubles at work. The old me would have tried to offer solutions to all her problems. I just listened. It caused me some anxiety in the old days to hear her get all wraped up in her problems. Now that I am understanding better it is nice to just listen. Thats all she ever wanted anyway.
The park was fun for S. He had a great time. Me and w. Well it was a little strained. At one point I sat down on a bench. She chose to sit down on the opposite end. She was so talkative on the way over but very quiet the rest of the night.
I have noticed she is wearing a ring on her left ring finger. It is one she had made for her mom. It looks similar to a wedding band. Don't know if this means anything at all.
I am proud of me. I wanted to backslide bad. Check on our status. I had a nice glass of STFU. Feeling great about that today as I could be here beating myself up about losing any amount of progress I have made.
Pulp
Not sure I understand fully where she is.
She is still saying she is done?
I wouldn't read anything into the ring thing other than if she is not wearing her wedding band that to me is a sign she is not ready to commit to repairing your M.
As far as the games did she tell you they came from this dude?
Also it doesn't matter how old he is or attractive he is.
Don't let that fool you. WAW sometimes find A partners WAY below what you might think as suitable for them.
One thing is for sure. She is not going to come back into the M or want to work on it until the A is over.
If she is having one.
There is a time for converations about your M and what to do about it together. It is typically not when we desire to have them which is now when you feel it is falling apart.
It likely took her a while to make this choice and it is not going to change on your timeline.
You pressing her on your agenda will likely be seen as just tha,t
Pressuring her for your needs and agenda.
Thus the advice given here to work on the only thing you can control.
YOU.
That said I think I would say and live these words:
"W, I've told you before that I still love you and still think that we can have a great life together as both a couple and a family. I've not changed my mind on that. But I understand you are not happy, that you do not feel happy or complete inside.
You need to do what will make you happy. By my side, we live as partners, we share everything and we would do anything to help one another. But that's only if we continue as a team.
I won't stand in your way. But I also will not help you leave this marriage or this family. And I will never accept another person being a part of our life together.
I hope you find the happiness you are looking for. Go do what you need to do. You know where I will be."
This OM is in your life Pulp whether she admits he is or not.
He is person you don't know who is giving your W attention and even gifts.
Once you say to her the words above then you must live them.
As far as the games go, Pulp how did it make you feel when she did this?
Is that a decision you feel should have been a joint one? To give S the games? To accept a gift from someone on behalf of your family and son?
Gifts are either gifts or they come with obligations or intentions attached to them.
What do you think about this?
Me? I probably would have said BEFORE giving them to son that I appreciate this man's generosity and would like the opportunity meet him and thank him...
...then give him the games back.
I think I would still do that even though she already gave them to son.
What if it were reversed? Would you accept a gift from a woman to bring home to your family? A woman your W didn't know? From work?
Do you think your W would appreciate that?
TG - Thanks for keeping up. I appreciate it.
Is she saying she is done?
No. But we have not talked about M or R. I have not brought it up. It is hard but I know that it must be on her time.
Did she tell me the games came from this dude?
No. It was an assumption. But a good one. She did tell S that the boy was 10. That is how old his son is.
How did it make me feel about the games?
I did not make a deal out of it outwardly but inside I was a pi$$ed. You know the male thing. Gifts are normal for friends and family but this dude is not my friend. Not my S friend either. How does this even come about you know.
What do I think about this?
It is low. To put that in my face. Here S mommys special friend wanted you to have these. Ugg. She did not say that but it is how I interpret it.
What if it were reversed?
I would have said thanks but no thanks. We just had christmas and a b-day. He has 6 new games and we spend enough time playing this stuff already. You should take them to the pawn shop or ebay or someting and buy your S something nice with the $.
We were alleating breakfast the next morning. S was pumped about the new games and had one at the table looking at it while eating. I said we should write the boy a nice note to say thank you. S said or we could go see him today and say thanks. W said I don't think so. I don't know where he lives.
I could tell she was uncomfortable. That was very telling. I fully believe there is an A.
While helping S brush his teeth I saw some new perfume. It was expensive. The only perfume my W has gotten since forever has been from me. I believe this was a gift as well. Probably valentines. She was gone. We didn't get each other anything and it wasn't even mentioned. No happy v-day. No I love you. Nothing.
I believed this to be the right move considering LRT.
I also noticed a parking pass for a resort in her car. The resort is 4hrs away and on the beach. The departure date says 2/06. She was gone to a meeting 1/31 thru 2/2. Don't know what to make of this. The meeting and hotel she said she was at is over 2 hrs away. That and the date on the permit expiring at a time when she was at home every nite is confusing.
The last time we had relations is 2/4. It was just business. Now I feel at risk for stds.
I can honestly say I have NEVER had an A.
We met in college. I was plastered the nite we met. I am suprised she gave me the time of day. I asked her out after a few more chance meetings. We dated alot for a couple months. No sex and I always treated her like a lady. I couldn't get enough of her. She stayed over a few times. She left one morning after a sleepover and I cooked breakfast. Then she fell off the radar. I called a few times and no answer. I got the point pretty quick.
I moved on. Saw her a few times on campus and smiled but that was it. I graduated and she was still in school. She called me a couple times out of the blue. I could tell something was wrong but we just talked and caught up. It was nice. I told her to call anytime she liked as I enjoyed talking to her. I never figured anything more would come of us. I moved and had no thoughts of her at all until about a year later she calls. She wants to meet me and have dinner or something. I was dating but no one in particular. I said thanks but I'm pretty busy. She says well call me some time. I didn't. But I thought of her alot. This woman was great. We had so much fun together. I was falling in love before. But she left me with a bad taste and no explanation. She calls two weeks later and asks me out again. I say yes and well the rest is history.
I found out later that the times she called out of the blue before she was being abused. Her new man would slap her around. She wanted to come running to me then she just couldn't make herself do it. I also found out that her father may have slaped her mom around. She has not gone into details but the next wife filed charges on him for it.
I have never laid a hand on her. I haven't shaken her, held her against her will nothing. My father was a great role model. I saw no bad behavior from him. He and my step-mom never even argued in front of us.
My mother,I have seen her abused by other men and her abuse them verbally. She was sexually abused as a child by her father. She turned into an addict and od'ed on meth before me and my wife ever met. I was 20. We had little contact since I was about 10. She isolated herself in the drug abuse. I never cried over it. I was already jaded and saw it coming for many years.
I dabled in drug abuse myself. Smoked pot daily from age 17 to 25.Grew out of it I guess. It no longer did anything for me. I haven't touched anything since. I do drink, not daily or weekly even. I don't get drunk except once a year on a fishing trip with my best buds. We all get pretty tanked on the opening night and sit around the fire talking bout the good old days and what happened last year and how life is going. Good times.
So thats more history than you probably wanted. I do love this woman. I wanted to spend the rest of my days with her. We are a good match as she has many strong traits that I do not and vice-versa. Through my research and reading this all has happened through no fault really. We both want, or wanted as the case may be, the same thing. Just communication breakdown and resentment has led us here. Reading "how to improve your marriage without talking about it" and "Mars and Venus" books as well as DR. So much makes sense about what went wrong.
Oh and one more tid bit. She confided in me years ago that her mom has had a OM as long as W can remember. I think more than one. One OM called my W to check up on her mom just before she passed.
Does that make this feel normal for her? That it is ok?
The thing that worries me most is my W's personality. She is very determined. When she sets her mind to something she WILL do it. She was valadictorian. Won awards at college. Worked full time during college. Is the youngest person and the only female to ever hold her current position with the company.
If she has made up her mind about D she may never reconsider.
I can't control that. I get it. Just work on DB for me. If she notices then thats good. If not then thats good too.
So I know she has/is lying to me about people, places, and things. Most of it is just not telling me about it.
I am doing very well with my LRT. I have sure wanted to bust her out a few times but it will not produce an outcome that helps me feel better about me.
So the Q is. Do I ever get answers? Do I want them?
They will never be the whole truth will they?
I can choose to put it behind me if or when she chooses to work on the R. Seek a C. Work through it there. Or just be done with it. Is that how it goes?
On a positive note our first interaction yesterday was her joking that she forgot to pick up S. Its been a while since she has played around with me.
Another weird thing. I got a job offer in a town an hour away. Told her about it. She said we could move there. So there is that. A mention of us.
Oh. If sex comes up. How do I handle that? I should not persue it. But if she does. What then? I have needs but would want to use protection. That could set her off. We have not used any since marriage.
Probably ahead of myself on that last one but I want to be prepared just in case.
Journaling.
We had a nice talk tonight. She came home and got alot off her chest about work. Mad about this and that and stress and so on. I just listened as I have learned from various sources that is all she wants. Not answers to her problems. She just needs to air them out and she can and will come up with her own solutions. She talked about some major health issues a family member is having. Anyway best talk we have had in weeks and I didn't even speak for the most part (a real 180 for me as I always wanted to tell her how to FIX her problems in the past). No R issues have been discussed but small progress nonetheless.
Journaling.
W left this morning to go on another out of state business trip. She will be back Fri nite. I helped her with her bags. She says put them in the back seat as the trunk is full. Well suspicion got the best of me and she had gone back inside to put her face on. So I checked the trunk. It is not full. There is some liquor in there though. My W is not a drinker. Sure she will have one while eating out or at a friends house. I have never seen her drunk. I have tried on aniversaries or b-days or date nite in the past to get her tipsy. She will nurse 1 drink for 2hrs. Well what alarms me is the bottle is near empty. Also there is a large bottle of wine. Not the gallon size but not regular size either. It is 3/4 full. I do feel bad about checking. But my hunch she was hiding something was correct.
I don't say anything. I close the lid. I am crushed. All these images go thru my mind. I can feel my pulse. Like my body twitches with each beat. I kinda get tunnel vision.
I gather myself and see her off. I smile and say be careful.
We have not touched in a couple weeks. I mean she backs against the wall when we meet in the hall. After we ML a few weeks back I tried to be more affectionate the next day. After reading sandi2's original stuff I realize I moved too fast. My W let me know that too. She gave me the evil eye when I tried to hug her the next day. I have since respected her and I too back against the wall. When she talks I listen, make eye contact, and say uh huh. That is the best part of our interaction now. It's not much but I am hanging on to something while trying to figure out if I can ever trust this b again. Which I DO NOT right now.
I understand my fault in this. She did the vast majority of the house work before we moved. And did a great job of it. My clothes were washed, dishes, floor, bathrooms, everything. I did the cooking and outside work but that was it really. She would ask for help but I was tired. I'll do it later. I would leave in the morning and sometimes forget something and come back in to get it without taking my boots off. (she insists on leaving your shoes at the door.) This would leave dried mud or the mixture of it and dew on the tile. I'd rush back out never noticing and she'd clean it up. Instead of always saying yes ooooh i like that when she'd buy herself some new clothes I'd give my honest opinion. Sometimes I liked them sometimes I didn't. But she always looked great. Thats all I should have said. Instead of thanking her for the many many things she did to love me, I would critisize her for the very few things that T'd me off. What a good woman I had. Bad thing is at the time I thought I was a good man. I came home every nite. I worked hard. I bought her gifts and did sweet things occasionaly. I told her I loved her every morning and every nite. But the every day me was just there. I should have loved her better.
I grew resentful because anytime we got in to it I always said I'm sorry first. That I was wrong and she was right. She holds a grudge. Stays mad for a few days after any altercation. Stays mad even after I say sorry. This is over SMALL stuff. I get over things quickly. After 10 minutes I am ready to make up. Not her. She wants to stay mad. So I kinda grew into her style. We would just stay mad for a few days. I'm not giving in. If she wants to be hard headed so can I. That sort of thing. She did say she's sorry once and she meant it. It was monumental. I felt high on the mountain. Why did I do that. I felt better when I tried to make up quickly even if she did not come around for a few days.
I am trying to forgive myself and move forward.
TG?
Anyone?
A smack in the head or a pat on the back. Either would be appreciated. I have no one to bounce things off of. I do not wish to include friends or family. Not a good recipe.
Am I doing ok? Other than snooping. Which I got what I asked for.
So here is a problem I can't resolve.
Should I leave?
I want to.
If we had not just recently moved 800 miles away from home I would. There is not a doubt in my mind.
I am unemployed because of the move. So there is that.
I could go back home. Get my old job back (boss calls weekly to see how I'm liking it out here. Says the door will always be open).
I would have to take S with me. She does not have a routine that is condusive to child rearing. That puts 13hrs of hard driving between a mother and son. Might wake her up but most likely she will hate me for it. Most importantly S misses mom already because of her overnite travels. It would be too much to bear to see them apart so much. So that is what is keeping me here for now.
I feel like I am enabling by staying. I feel like I would destroy my family if I go. I feel like I am using her while I don't have work. I feel like she is using me for childcare only.
I hope I hear something soon about a job I feel like I will get. Work there for a month or so and if A continues move out then.
Maybe this is Gods way of keeping me here to work on myself and gain a stronger M. I just don't know anymore which way to turn.
Also there is this Q. Should I try to contact OM's wife. I can see how it would be right to tell her. I can also see it might destroy her family. And how that would be wrong. I have enough hard evidence that makes W and OM relatiionship an EA at the least.
I need help.
Tough love?
Wisdom?
Anyone?
Sounds like you are doing pretty well, an ebook that helped me specifically in the A arena with W's first dive down the mlc tunnel was "Break Free from the A...." (google it, and clear your history afterwards...). it meshes well with DB philosophy, imho.
STOP SNOOPING!!!! I KNOW, easier said....
One thing that I did was really get down deep into my mind and guts whether the A was/is a deal breaker, if I could truly forgive, and if the pain would be/is worth the chance at a better R (I chose "yes"). REALLY go there, for YOU.
Just treat her as your best friend, love from a distance, and know that most affairs last less than a year.
What are you doing for GAL, for you?
Did you find out about the job yet (I might have missed that)?
T^2
Also there is this Q. Should I try to contact OM's wife. I can see how it would be right to tell her. I can also see it might destroy her family. And how that would be wrong. I have enough hard evidence that makes W and OM relatiionship an EA at the least.
NO! NO!! and NO!!!
Unless you REALLY want a divorce ASAP.
It makes you look bad, imho...(yes, I have been and still am tempted, but stop myself).
It will not help, at all.
I will write more later.
T^2
Whoa...slow down...breathe...do nothing at the moment...
I will write more later, promise.
Also there is this Q. Should I try to contact OM's wife. I can see how it would be right to tell her. I can also see it might destroy her family. And how that would be wrong. I have enough hard evidence that makes W and OM relatiionship an EA at the least.
I'm very new to this, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt... if the 180s and changes are supposed to be for us, to make us better, how does telling the W of the OM help you or make you better??? I'm going through my W having an EA and I thought about this same thing, but every possible outcome I came up with was negative. We need to be more positive in life, not bring more negatives...
Not doing as much GAL as I'd like.
1. Working out M W F. Running T Th Sa.
2. Activities with S. Park, zoo, kids museum, library.
3. Sad to say but tanning.
4. Looking for work.
Going to start attending church on Sunday. Haven't been in years except for special occasions.
I am feeling better about me and my appearance. I dress up nice each morning. The divorce diet has taken its toll and with the exercise I'm looking better than ever IMO. Glad to start getting my apetite back.
Dazed and T^2
Yes. Thank you.
I needed clarity. Telling her would not help me at all.
It was only the fact of would I want someone to tell me? You know.
Am I obligated?
I totally agree, no good outcome. It undermines any progress I may have made. I am putting up with more bs than I thought I could or would.
I also realize I am fortunate and many others have a much worse sitch. Maybe mine will get worse but I have to commit to being the better person through it all.
Sometimes I will need help.
Thank you all.
I am putting up with more bs than I thought I could or would.
You will surprise yourself, if I am "reading" you correctly from your posts...and PLAN on it getting worse before it gets better, or you know you have given your all. I never thought I would be able to go through this again after W's first round of mlc....but here I am, and I ain't done yet...
Well here' my .02 so take it with a grain of salt.
Tell her straight forward and honestly that you feel that she hasn't been honest with you and believe that you deserve the truth. Tell her that there were a few things that you've discovered, but are giving her the opportunity to talk to you.
She'll ask what have you found out, etc. But before she gets into that rant, hold up your hand and repeat again the above and that you deserve the truth. She could lie to you, but listen to what she says. And most importantly, do this calmly and not going off the handle.
After she's done, don't say anything. Just look at her calmly and say that you have alot to consider now. And then walk away.
Before jumping to the POTENTIAL OM's W, give your W the benefit of the doubt first.
T^2 and Dazed,
Again thanks. For some reason I feel so much better after your posts.
I rather like the idea of being a good friend to her, since we will have a lifetime of parenting together, however things shake out.
I let my mind run rampant today. And for no good reason other than my snooping slip up.
W called earlier and talked in great length about her day b4 she asked to speak to S. I was upbeat and it was nice. In the back of my mind knowing she could be and probably is doing something with OM tonite. Something I can't control. (STOP sign)
No I have not got the job yet. They did ask me to come in and fill out some background check stuff and take some sort of computer psych test. There were no right answers. It was weird.
I am optimistic.
MrBond,
I consider you another wise hero.
Life is funny sometimes, I may just be doing something along the lines of your .02 tonight regarding truth...seems it may be time to stir the ol' mlc pot a bit...reviewing Cadets and HB's posts regarding stirring the pot, your posts also...my gut says it may be time.
Wish me luck...and the handle is securely welded in place...
Funny how calm things can get within.
T^2
Mr. Bond,
Thanks for the advice.
I have done this. Similar to what you suggested. But with out the nice ending.
She tells me he is a nice guy, just friends. He is funny and fun to be around. He is married, she is married, work policy. If under different circumstances maybe.
She met with him so they could ride together to a 3 day meeting 4hrs away b/c she didn't want to drive. (I found 2 receipts for the same room on what should have been the last nite of the business meeting. This hotel was not in the same city as the meeting. One with his credit info on it, one with hers. She had pretended she was still at the business meeting hotel that nite.) She said that he called and reserved the room for her while driving and she had the bill changed the next a.m. I asked why did he even call to do that. She had no answer. She checked in at 10:30. Says he just dropped her off and drove to his house. (My fear tells me she had the bill info changed as it was company credit and the OM lives in the same town as hotel. They stayed together and banged all nite.)
Why wouldn't she just come home. Could've been here by 11:30. Why lie to me about your whereabouts. Why be in one place and say you are in another...no answers except b/c I would be suspicious.
I have been very confident in my relationship until this point. Never thought of her fooling around. Not a jealous H. We had frank talks about it during our M. If either was tempted, just tell the other they want out. I guess she did tell me she wants out with ILYBNILWY.
She goes on to tell me that they did go to the bar one nite, after a dinner with coworkers, instead of going to the hotel like everyone else.
At first it was she has nothing to tell or hide. Then a little. Then more. I went into it ok but ended up dragging it out of her.
I thanked her for the honesty, but thought her a liar and a slut and said I hated her for what she had done. She said that it was not an A. Even if it was it was, it would be a result of our problems, not the cause.
I did NOT "fly off the handle", throwing stuff, and road cussing her like the child in me wanted to do. I was quite calm and cold. My parting statements are something I will forever regret. I so wish I would have handled it like your post reads. Or maybe not at all.
My words cut her deeply and she says after her nervous laugh "you will EAT those words."
I decided I should leave. Go somewhere. Anywhere. I started packing some clothes. It was near midnite at this point. As I get ready to walk out she says don't leave. It's what I wanted to hear so I stayed.
We have not talked about leave, stay, D, work on it, since.
She needs time. I need time.
I should have just thanked her for telling me. It has to be hard to admit the lies. She did what I wanted her to do. It was not what I wanted to hear and she painted it in an innocent light, but it was some form of coming clean. And she had been so strong to tell me ILYBut just a short time before. It is brutal honesty to tell a spouse that. It must be hard.
Thinking back I dragged the ILYBNILWY out of her.
She doesn't want to hurt me. I am realizing that now. It hurts anyway.
I told her I was sorry for name calling. (I truely am. I have never resorted to that before. She has always been a "good-girl" in my eyes and have treated her as such.)
If you are not ready to hear the truth, I don't recommend asking!
Oops, so sorry. Think I used a bad word after reading back over my post. Tried to edit. It says time expired. Can a mod fix that for me.
Again sorry.
Mr. Bond,
I think the key to the confrontation is knowing your own fault in the A. Owning it.
I was doing good. In fact feeling releived to hear some truths.
I was getting a reason why she was not in love anymore. It was OM.
It was the sting of her saying I had my own part in the A. If I had been better then...she wouldn't need a OM. At that moment the finger squarely pointed at me. It was real and it hurt. Shame.
"It's what I wanted to hear so I stayed."
Wrong reaction. You don't stay because of something you want to hear. You stay because she has proven herself to you. You are going to say that she did by being honest, etc. But let's face it, she wasn't. You had to drag the truth out from her.
At that point, you should have asked her "why"? Something like "why would you want me to stay?" "I need to feel that you are someone I can trust and you haven't been open about things. Why should I believe you now?" And then let her respond. Her answer would have given you an idea of how she would make things right.
"It was the sting of her saying I had my own part in the A."
I can't stress this enough...NEVER EVER TAKE THE BLAME OR HAVE SOMEONE BLAME YOU FOR THEIR OWN AFFAIR! There are other, healthier ways of dealing with issues in a M. But an Affair is the most selfish thing another person could do. It breaks all kinds of boundaries and is not justifiable by any means. Don't ever have someone pin the blame on you.
TSquared2,
I would suggest you start your own thread so others can follow you and assist your needs. Good luck to you.
Mr. Bond,
I hear you, and thank you.
I agree that I did not make the choice of A. But, I have not been meeting her emotional needs. Even if by pure ignorance on how to do it. The difference in male and female...whatever you call it.
It is quite eyeopening as most of the literature I have been reading (DR, Mars - Venus, How to improve your M w/o talking, this site) describe the sitch as text-book. I was oblivious and she has checked out. Her love tank empty.
Should I revisit the issue IYHO?
I am on the no side of the fence for now. I do not like it. But I can NOT control the A.
What other things can you start or restart regarding GAL? Any hobbies you've let drop off over the years that you used to love?
I started tying flies and leather working again...W once said that seeing me do that was "sexy"...
Biking to work except in winter.
REI has weekly free events (I am into outdoor/back country sports).
I can't quite get back to music/songwriting yet emotionally...like the world needs another lost lover song...
Since you are at home atm...why not get Julia Childs French Cooking book and become your own chef? I have yet to run into a woman who minds a man that can cook...
Books, books, books (and not all self-help, R books either, get some good sci-fi/fantasy/literature)...thrift store gets me a bag o' books for a quarter (W usually gets these for me actually).
Heck, even model building...why not? Adults need play time too.
I needed to find inexpensive/free things and they are out there, even in my mid-sized town. You can too.
I asked W for all the things she found lacking in our R that she felt were my fault...and in front of her I wrote down what she said. I went through list and found what I could/would be responsible for fixing/180/changing.
I check in with myself and the list weekly to make sure I am keeping on track, changing, and keeping the changes going. And I like the man I see in the mirror now (and it shows to others too, btw).
Those things we are responsible for, not our W's choice to have A...I didn't choose to have an A during W's times she couldn't meet my needs through our M, or during her A, or mlc...I have been tempted many times, but then I wouldn't be the man/person I want to be, would I?
"I was oblivious and she has checked out. Her love tank empty."
Let's face it. She was oblivious too. She could just have spent the same amount of energy trying to strengthen her relationship with you rather potentially having an A. So don't beat yourself over who's to blame.
"Should I revisit the issue IYHO?"
I'm not sure what issue you're referring to. You said she was open and talked to you about it and you seem content with that. There's going to have to come a time when you stop obsessing about the EA. If she is really open to healing things, then she needs to see to your insecurities that SHE caused. If you need to feel the trust with her again, tell her that you need transparency. That you can check her phone when you respectfully ask for it. That she does not contact the other guy. Again, state these needs clearly and confidently.
Apologies if I hijacked the thread, I only meant to comment on the co-incidence of your advice to pulpwood and how that matched up with what I was thinking about.
T^2,
No apology needed. I greatly appreciate your insight. I am new and it sounds like you have years of experience.
I too am an outdoorsman. Hunting (mostly archery), fishing, floating the river and watch the world go by.
I should try hiking as I'm in a new area that has many trails within a 2hr drive.
Like MrBond, I would like to know your story. I also think it would help you to express it.
Thanks to you all. I have much to learn.
Oh, BTW.
My confrontation about OM was 16 days ago.
Wish I had MrBonds advice beforehand. You are wise. I did not present her with a question of how she could make things right.
I am no DB expert by any means.
I did not realize what really was going on the first time around (A). A got stopped but....looking back on everything said/done then, past history (childhood, adolescence, and so forth), then interval between then and current crisis...IC and I pretty much have it as MLC (along with peri/menopause, empty nest, etc).
I made quite a few changes the first time around, but
I let them slip...so phase 2 of MLC, as has been documented here, came back,
with a vengeance.So I got the ILYBNILWY speech, cyber/emotional affairs (like sandi2's sitch, and maybe PA now) in Sept last year .... but there was a nice little break in between, but now I see that the under currents were growing during that break.
I am reluctant to post sitch, as I think W may read here (thanks amaz history of recent purchases, but I should have known better) and the details would most likely clue her in...but I am seriously thinking about posting it anyway.
So I am here as a beginning mind, and this forum has saved me (mostly from myself)
For me, getting in the mountains and away centers and grounds me, but any outdoor activity definitely contributes to maintaining PMA. Try to do as much as you can!
(Archery...another GAL...I am old school recurve guy myself)
Thanks for sharing T^2,
As I understand things, its in our male dna to get "comfortable" when we perseve things to be going good. It's a shame.
I am missing my old stomping grounds. Had 1,300 acres of family owned land with 4 miles of river frontage to roam around on every chance I got. Grew up there and know every nook and krany.
I am new school archery. I have great respect for old school. I want to build my own bow out of a bois d arc stave one day. (nice GAL)
Had a house on 3 acres of our own. Not a neighbor in sight. We still have 20 acres where we were going to build one day.
Now we live in a jam packed neighborhood. (sigh) I miss the old place.
Pulpwood
Ok, I did it...sitch is over in MLC-land...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2224596#Post2224596How are things with you and W now, after confrontation?
Your acreage sounds wonderful...use that image in your mind as replacement for any A images/thoughts...
How are things with you and W now, after confrontation?
Well T^2, they are slowly getting better. She was completely shut down for a few days after. She has not "admited" any wrong doing on her part. I believe the EA is still alive and well. But she has started talking to me more. Just about work and life. Nothing about our life or M or R. I am optimisticly waiting. As we all are. Being the best me I can be in the mean time.
I am glad she has not brought up D. But I am preparing for it. Just gonna say "yes, ok, I hear you." if/when it comes up. Not gonna fight it. It will hurt like he!!, but I believe that should be my response per DB.
She said once shortly before ILYBNILWY that she could go for years living as roomates. Not her exact words, but something like that. I believe she wants to appear to be M for our S. I don't know where she is now. Maybe that gives time for my changes to take hold.
I am scared. I know the stats are not in my favor. About 80% of D filed by women. And I believe that its 80% of women who want out never change their mind.
I can't control that. Just me. And I'm doing a better job with that each day.
She hasn't moved out yet....good.
You are talking to each other...good.
Get those changes/180's/etc cemented in, and next time SHE brings up R talk, if your haven't done so already, get a laundry list of your failings in the M from her POV (no defense), write them down (shows you really are taking her seriously...yes, I know you do, you know you do, but it can't hurt...)
I wouldn't stress on stats too much because I found it can drag me down and mess with PMA...there are other stats which show different outcomes...I am a numbers guy, stats can lie.
What does your gut/intuition say?
I have found that "I am sorry you feel that way" works well for me...but my sitch is different.
My failings:
1) I don't listen. Not like women listen to each other. When she came at me with her problems, I came up with solutions. Her stories would seem to get her so riled up it would get me anxious.
180-Just listen. She is very bright and can handle her own problems without me. She will ask if she wants to know what I think.
2) I criticize her. I took every opportunity to let her know when she let me down. Didn't tell her thank you enough. (This one went both ways.)
180-Let her know my appreciation for the things she does right. Let the other bs go.
3) Not enough quality time. We got so wrapped up in life we didn't make time for each other. Any free time we had we spent doing our own thing.
180-If she wants me to go shopping or see family or whatever. Anything she wants to do together, just do it. Be happy while doing it.
4) Always negative. There were many times when I would play devil's advocate. Not even believing in my side of the argument. Just putting it out there for the sake of conversation.
180-Don't do that. My family did it and it was considered ok. Kind of a fun debate. It drives her nuts. No need to make an argument when there is none.
I will put "I am sorry you feel that way" in my tool box.
Did she see you write those down? When I did it showed W that I was taking her very seriously and not trusting that I wouldn't forget what she said.
I have the same fix-it problem, it really got pointed out to me by my kids..."Dad, we don't bring our problems to you because you don't let us find our own solutions"...ouch...OUCH!
What does your gut/intuition say?
If we didn't have S? She would be long gone and never look back. She said so. Can't say I wouldn't be gone too.
But that is hypothetical.
Real world? My gut says she still wants out but can't tear the family apart yet. I will take that. It is exactly how I feel... ATM.
S is our pride and joy. I am a great father, she says so. She is a great mother, I say so. He is so confident, bright, and fun. We have not failed him yet. We both know the destruction a D would bring to his life.
That said. I don't want to continue like this. I am commited to doing my part to make our M lasting and better than ever. For us and him. Just takes changes and lots of patience.
Yes she saw me take notes.
She says "I have told you this stuff before". I just sat there with my pad and pen and validated that yes she had. She told me after rolling her eyes. She seemed to not be so put off by it after the list got rolling along.
Ha! My W had exact same reactions!
I swear there are scripts written for this stuff genetically encoded or something...
Well, you mentioned that if you hadn't moved 800 miles from home 4 months ago you would leave immediately. If that is how you feel, I dont think you are doing yourself or your son any favors by trying to sacrifice more for her.
You left home, for her.
You gave up your job, for her.
You are a free babysitter, for her.
You are not confronting her, for her.
You are letting her ingratiate OM to your son, for her.
You are turning a blind eye and keeping her affair a secret, for her.
You have done enough for her. For everything you have done, she has responded by lying to you, cheating on you, betraying you, emotionally abusing you. And you are helping her do it. So why shouldn't she? There are obviously no consequences to her actions that hurt you and your son.
Different marriage support programs have different recommendations on whether to snoop, whether to expose affairs to family/bosses etc, whether to tell OMW, whether to do anything to force your wife to make a decision. This program is firmly in the no camp for all of these. In many cases I think this is the right track, but I really don't think this is best for your situation because you have put yourself in a terrible situation where you are dependent on your wayward wife. If she files for divorce in your current location, she can force that your son has to stay in the new location. You will be financially devastated, trapped in the new location away from your family and career prospects, and most likely will get bulldozed by her in the divorce and custody settlement.
Residency for divorce is typically established after 6 months. You are at 4 months in the new location. You can move back home, get your old job back and file for divorce in your original location. Filing for divorce does not mean you will have to get a divorce - if you file first you have control and you can drag it out or end it at any time. Your wife would be very hard pressed to get your son back to your current location, especially as she cant force you to move back and if you are not there, she would have to prove that she can care for him full time.
You are not taking her son away from her - you are giving her a choice: you and your son or her job and her affair. Which do you value more?
Did you find sandi2's rules? One of them is something like "believe none of what they say, half of what they do".
There is a lot of fear, confusion for all of us (both sides) in these situations I think...if I believed everything I have said through this, I would be divorced.
But I didn't, and I am not.
Fade,
I'm sure it sounds like I lost my sack somewhere. Your post is something I've thought of everyday. Come close to doing it. It is not off the table. Just not the direction I'm going today.
Thanks for the legal advice. Wasn't aware of that.
I have been keeping a log of what days she's been gone. What time she gets home. Stuff like that. In case I need history to keep my hard earned rights as a parent. So far in the last 35 business days she has been gone 17 of them. She has only been home in time to get S from daycare 4 days.
It was something a friend did as he was getting D. Worked out well for him. His W gets kids every other weekend. The courts are not as biased as they once were.
Got another job offer today. Not as lucrative as the one I've been waiting to hear back from but going to talk Monday.
I went hiking today. It was nice. Had a great time. When I got back. Different story.
As soon as I walk through the door.
W- why is the password on "my" computer changed?
Me- I changed it. It is my computer now. We bought you a new one 3 months ago.
W- well tell me the new password.
Me- No. I will give you the pictures but you stopped having the right to know everything when you started keeping secrets.
W- I am getting an apartment for myself. I am sick of you.
Me- I'm sorry you feel that way.
(sigh) what now? I was cool and calm. Came in with a great attitude. Even gave her a hug as I said sorry you feel that way. She pulled back of course. I felt it was a good thing to do as my shame was triggered and I wanted to calm her fear.
She has not started packing. She is playing video games with S. I am grilling burgers.
Maybe she will, maybe she won't.
In my opinion....TMI...
Instead of:"Me- No. I will give you the pictures but you stopped having the right to know everything when you started keeping secrets."
Maybe just:
"Me- No. I will give you the pictures and whatever else you need off it, do you have a flash drive handy?."
End of story...No blame, accusation, reference to R issues...just the facts ma'am...
I would spend a lot of time with S tonite and give her space...
Pulp
Sorry I have been off the boards with busy schedule I will catch up and give u my thoughts soon.
Mr. Bond has given you some good advice.
I always give this advice
Protect yourself and your family financially, legally, emotionally and any other way and live your life like they are not coming back
I will write more later
This is such a hard road. In many ways I have been on it a while. Just wasn't aware of it. Got so far to go. Don't know whats waiting at the end of it.
On the bright side I had a good day by my current standards.
Went to church by myself. S said he would go if W went. She said she wasn't going but he should join me. He threw a minor tantrum and they stayed at home. Sat in the church full of people and felt very alone. Missed my family. The sermon was good. One person got saved. Three baptised.
We went to eat lunch together and bowling after that. It was fun but everything is awkward these days.
Came home and watched a kids movie. At one point a momma bear pushes a cub down a hill and stays behind to fight a wolf and dies. The cub is crying. S turns to look at me with tears in his eyes. He asks "why". "Would you push me down a hill and leave me?" I answered that I would never leave him. Him and I are great hunters and we are strong. We would fight that wolf together. His spirits were quickly lifted and he showed me his muscles.
Kinda hit home for me.
This is such a hard road.
Yes it is. Because right now you've been kicked in the jimmy and it will take you clawing your way back to self assured dignity.
You are not your W's choices.
No where in DB or DR does it advise you to sacrifice your dignity or to be a victim of your W's choices.
You are the master of your own respect.
Boundaries are a healthy part of any relationship.
They are there to protect you not to punish. You sounded like you tried to establish a boundary when you changed the password on the computer.
The thing is boundaries have to be communicated and they have to have consequences when they are crossed.
Otherwise you come across as a paper tiger.
Do you want to live in this place with your son where you cannot find a job?
In what way?
I mean there is a wolf here.
Don't you think?
The "home" you speak of is YOU
Your core values and your dignity.
And they are under attack right now. So is your family.
What will you do about it?
LRT is not a silver bullet. Not a magic pill.
You are watching and waiting for her to come back?
Then what?
This tragedy can make you or break you and the longer you sit on the sidelines watching her play her game the more you will suffer.
What do you want Pulp?
What is your goal?
What kind of man do you aspire to be?
What example can you show your son right now of that man?
The video games were a direct assault to your self respect and dignity perpetrated by your W and her "work friend"
You may not be able to change what's going on but you sure can set some boundaries of what you will and will not accept as an assault to your family.
How you do this is critical. You can't do it with anger or spite or be reactionary.
Which is how you looked when you changed the password.
It seems we have to go back to step one Pulp.
Do you like this guy that you see in the mirror? Do you think your W likes and respects him?
If you don't then my advice is stop worrying about what your W is doing and get busy becoming the guy you do like and respect
... because she is not worrying about you my friend.
I know this is harsh and it is hard.
SO answer my questions if you like...
Thanks for the tough Q's Gritter.
Do you want to live in this place with your son where you cannot find a job?
I got a job offer today and accepted. The answer to the Q though is no. We never planned on living here forever. It was discussed in great detail before we made a decision. (I thought our M was in a good place at the time. Looking back I was wrong.) It was a 2 year or so plan. Get experience, make some money, transfer or find a new job back close to family ASAP if/when the time is right.
I have no desire to live here forever. I want to be and to raise my son near all of our family.
It has been a tough decision whether to stay here or go back home. The answer lies in my core responsibily and value. My son's wellbeing and happiness. I would not be able to live with a decision that put 800 miles between him and W. Would that make me a MAN? Putting my interest before his?
In what way?
I mean there is a wolf here.
Don't you think?
Yes. The wolf is present. I saw a glimpse of his likely reaction if we should talk to him about splitting up. Abandoning him.
You are watching and waiting for her to come back?
Then what?
I could be guilty of watching and waiting. I am making changes. For me. I am moving forward. What lay ahead? Dunno. I still have hope. If I didn't I would be at the strip club instead of here. Just kiddin.
What do you want Pulp?
What is your goal?
What kind of man do you aspire to be?
What example can you show your son right now of that man?
I want to keep my family together in one house. I want my old W back, or a new and improved W. If that is not possible, I want the closest thing to it. Two functioning parents working with each other and not against.
My goal is to keep getting better.
I want to be the kind of man only a fool would leave.
My son can see that I am HERE. Always will be. He can count on me. That I have not lost it. That I haven't resorted to the botttle or drugs, slapping her around, slamming doors, yelling and screaming, kicking the dog.(all of which I have seen, from my late mother and her lovers, not from my father.) I hope to break the cycle.
Which is how you looked when you changed the password.
I agree.
I would like to make boundaries. I have no way of backing them up. "If you do _______ , I will...I will..." I will what. I need help in this area. Any examples of healthy boundary setting?
Do you like this guy that you see in the mirror? Do you think your W likes and respects him?
Overall I do like that guy. That man is suprising me. There are things I'm still workin on. But I continue to progress. And I don't give a shhh what she thinks. I am doing the best I can with the cards I've got. Many cards she dealt. I am making some mistakes and trying not to make them twice. Learning as much as I can, and folks like you are helping me along.
I would not be able to live with a decision that put 800 miles between him and W. Would that make me a MAN? Putting my interest before his?
Pulp I am going to ask that you be kind to yourself and look at this a different way.
It is NOT your fault or responsibility that your W brought you to a town away from the rest of your family causing you to give up your job and then start a relationship with another man.I would say that you deciding to move back home with your son was due to her choice and the responsibility lies directly on her.
She has lied to you, not been truthful, threatened to leave and is carrying on an active Affair <---- it is going on no matter whether physical or just emotional and no matter what she chooses to admit.
I guess the question for you is:
If your M does not survive will you want to stay where you are regardless?
If not
I would talk to an attorney to know what your options and rights are to move you and your son home.
Your W chose this. NOT YOU. She is deciding to break up your family NOT YOU.
Your choice is to do the right thing for you and your son.
Only you can answer that question.
IF she wants to repair the M then she will see her part in this and respect you for the choice you made.
If not then at least you made a decision that is the best for you and your son.
Pulp, I do not wish to distract from your conversation with Grit.
I would like to make boundaries. I have no way of backing them up. "If you do _______ , I will...I will..." I will what. I need help in this area. Any examples of healthy boundary setting?
Someone pointed me to an article about boundaries on the Livestrong site. I found it and another article about detachment useful.
FWIW, A boundary I set was “When I believe I have been communicated to with the respect and common courtesy I show the person bagging groceries I will respond to you.”
Easy for me to do as our children are grown.
It is NOT your fault or responsibility that your W brought you to a town away from the rest of your family causing you to give up your job and then start a relationship with another man.
When you are right, you are right.
I thank you for your time and interest in my sitch. I am at a much better place b/c of you, T^2, MrBond, and all the others here. I am not at the pinacle of enlightenment, but learning.
Truth is... if I pack up and leave today, it would be out of anger, spite, and rage.
I am detaching from those emotions.
After reading so many other stories I feel confident I will be back here venting soon enough, but today I feel good.
if I pack up and leave today, it would be out of anger, spite, and rage.
My goal is to not be angry, bitter, resentful. I'm hanging until that's true.
Good luck to both of us.
Pulp
This is a process. Anger is one of the stages you go through. It has been compared to the stages of accepting death. And I found that to be true.
There was a study I heard about that ranked the LBS tragedy more tragic than losing both your parents in a car crash.
I can see that too. Especially for the spouse who cares the most. The one giving in the relationship which I think generally are people that make their way here.
They desire to save the M.
But one of the first stages is denial.
And you can get stuck there and when you do destructive things can happen.
Search on here for the stages of the LBS.
Anger? Is good. If you don't have you are not moving forward
Remember to be concious to use it as a shield not as a sword.
That is protect yourself with it. Don't react because of it.
I promise you if you keep working and moving forward with your values as your compass
You won't be heading to Bitterville.
Keep stepping forward
Truth is... if I pack up and leave today, it would be out of anger, spite, and rage.
I know you have not made a decision yet, but I am worried that waiting too long is going to really limit your options. Please do some research in both your new location and back home about how a divorce would look in each locality. A lot of this is free online, and you can try to get a free phone consultation with an experienced father's rights attorney where you can get a better overview. As I mentioned, you probably have the option to move back home so right now you can choose where you want to be. If your wife files, or you wait too long and lose residency back home then you will need to accept that you will never be able to move back home unless your wife/ex-wife agrees to move with you.
Another thing to consider; your wife started a new job and pretty much immediately started an affair with a married coworker using company time and travel. When, not if, this comes to the attention of the OMW and their employer, her entire situation is certain to blow up. There is probably a 95% chance the OM will throw your wife under the bus and run back to his family and your wife will either be outright fired or "transitioned" out of a job.
Right now she has money, constant travel and a "Mr. Wonderful" to distract her. With her travel, she cant get primary custody. With her own money, she doesn't need yours. With "Mr. Wonderful", she has no emotional attachment to you and really just wants you gone. If you separate or divorce under these circumstances you will have a massive advantage. You can get primary custody, and either qualify for support or, betting that she will get fired soon, write into the agreement that both parties waive rights for spousal or child support forever. If she loses her job and affair, she will set her sights on you, she will become far more possessive of your home, resources and son, and as an unemployed stay at home mom, she will have a huge advantage for custody and support in a divorce.
Journaling.
I've had a calm about me for a couple days. It has been nice.
I/we seem to be at that better place we were before the password / W getting her own apt incident. She hasn't given me the silent treatment, per her usual m.o. Perhaps my actions have given her a new reaction.
We have had good interactions. She has been gone a couple days with work. When she calls, she talks to me longer and longer. She even said "thanks for listening" after she went off about her terrible day. That was nice.
I am aware that everything is not fine. But I am getting better about being fine despite everything.
I am relaxing a little during the calm part of the ride.
Glad to hear that, PW!
My W also changed her interaction with me after I stood by my boundaries.
Embrace the good, because it helps to remember it when things are "less good"...
I like to keep track of all the little things/signs of improvement/good interactions...helps the PMA and to get through 1 more day...
That calm feeling really helps me...Keep it going!
T^2
Had some discipline issues with S. Something she started then walked away from.
I picked up where she left off. It got resolved. Not quickly. He tried my patience. He is strong willed. But he cooled off and said sorry. Then we finished getting ready and went to daycare.
I thought she might just need some cool off time. After she walked away she dried her hair, put on make-up, and then worked on her computer till I left to take him to daycare. She never talked to us or even looked at us for that matter.
Nothing said or done hateful between us recently that I am aware of.
When I got back she was gone.
Kinda strange as we have always taken on these issues as a team. No biggie just out of character for her.
Maybe she just woke up on the wrong side of the couch. lol.
Here is something I have been thinking on a while.
In a month or so is W b-day. A few days before that is the one year mark on MIL passing away.
I have known ever since then that her b-days will be emotional times for her. Especialy this one.
With our current sitch... not sure how to approach it.
Had planned on getting her and bff a spa treatment for the day.
Now we haved moved and bff is far away and I just don't see that being fun by yourself. I could be wrong.
Any suggestions? Literature on the issue? Someone who has kinda been here before? A womans touch? Do something? Do nothing?
I feel like I really need help with this one. It is important to me to be "there" for her. She has said I wasn't "there" at the time. (Wanted to so badly, just didn't know how.)
A nice card like you would send a friend.
We have had good interactions. She has been gone a couple days with work. When she calls, she talks to me longer and longer. She even said "thanks for listening" after she went off about her terrible day. That was nice.
Or she just woke up on a different side of the bed...
Pulp I am not trying to p!ss in your cornflakes.
My point is you should not let whichever way the winds blows with her determine your life and your decisions.
The biggest thing for your I worry about is that as the clock is ticking, you will be stuck HERE where she dragged you, with your son...
Once time goes by even if you decide to move home your son will have to stay where she moved you guys.
I really worry about this for you.
Because it is all in her court.
I strongly suggest you talk to an attorney on this issue.
She may know this too so she might be waiting it out with you so you can't take your son back home.
It is a domicile issue with the courts and each state I think is different.
How will you feel if this option is no longer an option, she amps up her affair and you are stuck in this town because you want to be near your son and now his legal home is this town not the one you just left?
Your home?
You need to make some very difficult decisions quick but just remember make the one that is best for YOU and YOUR son.
Forget your W right now. She is certainly taking care of what she cares about and what she thinks is good for her...
Regardless of you.
I made a trip back home to visit Grandma. She is 89 and her heart is failing. She is going downhill daily but very ok with it. We, as a family, are too. She is still able to speak but not much else. It was very good to see and talk with her. What a good, sweet, caring woman.
I had lots of driving time, and time at the hospital, to think about life. It was good. I found some peace, and was more relaxed than I have been in weeks. My appetite was back, energy up, sleeping well. Sad, but ok.
I got home and all the anxiety came rushing back. Even stronger than when I left. I felt peaceful until the moment I walked in the door. Knot in my stomache. Appetite gone. Restless sleep. Worry. It just rushed at me. I don't know why.
Shaking it off.
So I have made a firm decision to ride it out here Gritter. I understand your concern. In my heart I just feel it is the right thing to do. I have thought it over, and over, and over. I have no expectations. This is for me. Because I will feel better about myself going this route.
I want to go home, sure. I want to do right by my S even more. Anyway the decision is made. I made it. And I like it.
Things are going good. I mean to say I am doing good. DBing. Not backsliding. Interactions are friendly, neighborly.
She is softening some. Smiling a little more. I know she could jump ship anytime. I'm ready. In fact I'm kinda bored. There is a part of me that just wants to eff or fight. Either way. Bring it on.
Then I remember patience.
I'm taking S to the circus tomorrow. He has been wanting to go to one for a few months. So it should be a good time.
I'm gonna grill burgers and boudan tomorrow nite. I got a nice cigar and a few beers making my mouth water too. Ahh springtime.
I have no expectations. This is for me. Because I will feel better about myself going this route.
I want to go home, sure. I want to do right by my S even more. Anyway the decision is made. I made it. And I like it.
There ya go...
Here for ya...!
Sometimes making "a" decision, regardless of which choice, sets the path and takes the stress out some. Plus it shows confidence, which is good for YOU.
Those beers better be up to the caliber of the cigar, btw...
!
T^2
I've found that the "re-entry" (coming back after being away fromt eh day-to-day of the sitch) is always difficult.
Being away puts all the drama out of our minds and replaces it with other thoughts.
It's when we can gain that same space in our daily lives that we are truly detached.
What can you do to create that now?
And what is boudan?
I am doing better with detaching. Keeping busy in daily life helps. Its when laying in my bed alone that I find myself in a dark place emotionaly. Time has helped some.
Boudan- cajun food. Rice, pork parts, and lots of spices, in a sausage like casing.
My cooking instructions. Place on grill (not over HOT coals) close lid for 5-10min to get a little smoke infused. Then wrap in foil with a splash or two of warm beer to keep moist. Cook over med-low till the casing dissolves (about 30 min.) Mmmm. Mmmm. Good.
Gotta go. Circus time.
So I read something on here a few days ago. It goes something like...
Its not that you didn't know what you had till it was gone. You knew what you had, you just never thought you would lose it.
So true.
I always knew.
Man I miss that woman.
I am fine. Not dwelling. DBing right along. Just thinking about old times.
Circus was good. S had a great time. Those motorcycle dudes in the steel ball are crazy.
Practiced t-ball in they yard as a family today.
So I have made a firm decision to ride it out here Gritter. I understand your concern. In my heart I just feel it is the right thing to do. I have thought it over, and over, and over. I have no expectations. This is for me. Because I will feel better about myself going this route.
There is no right or wrong answer here Pulp. Only regret for choosing the wrong thing for you or having your W make the decision for you.
You have made YOUR choice here so that is what is important.
Now live.
Forget your W right now. I am not saying your W won't come back.
YOUR success depends on how you choose to live with your choice. Not on what your wife has chosen, is choosing or will choose in the future.
What you choose from this day forward will make all the difference in the world Pulp.
SO what does your life look like going forward?
How can you live an example for your son?
What are your goals from here Pulp?
Pressed for time so I will think about and get to your Q's next time Gritter.
We were talking and I asked W where she was at. Realizing immediately that it was a backslide, I couldn't believe that just came out of my mouth. She said things change daily for her. She just doesn't know. She is affraid to show me any positive for fear that I might act like all is ok. She is affraid to move out for fear that I might move back. She said she just doesn't feel like she thinks she should feel toward me. She misses the good times but doen't know how to get back there or if we can.
I just STFU and listened and validated some things. Anyway, bad move but I handled it as best I could and she didn't flip out. Glad to come out the other side and move on down the DB road. I pretty much knew the answers by heart as I have read them so many times on here before. I'm not down about her answers. Quite the opposite.
Didn't tell her I have decided to stay here. Should I have? It could be considered controlling behavior to let her think I will move back.
I did tell her that I intend to move through this together as parents. So maybe that covered it. I felt like it did at the time, but typing through this made me wonder.
Hey PW,
Looks like the LBS truth machine was active today...I let slide some of my feelings today as well.
I wouldn't worry about telling her your decision at the moment, she doesn't really have the right to know. I think your telling her you are going to move through this together as parents probably covered it, but not too much...still some ambiguity in there...
Let her think what she will.
She hasn't moved out, she isn't sure what she wants, so you still get to show her the new, improved PW...
Didn't tell her I have decided to stay here. Should I have? It could be considered controlling behavior to let her think I will move back.
No.
She is affraid to move out for fear that I might move back.
Listen to her.
She wants to BUT she is afraid of what you might do.
Sorry man the writing is on the wall unless you decide to mess her world up.
She will keep you on this line until she gets what she wants.
She is telling you her plans if you will listen.
My advice? Take your son back home. Let her deal with you from that place of advantage.
Here? You got nothing but her manipulation.
Pulp you can read what I write here and you can read my own thread over in MLC rarely do I use this strong language.
Ask around.
I am telling you this is a pile of crap she is feeding you.
Protect yourself please. And take your son and yourself home.
She wants this? let her travel the miles she asked you to travel for your love of her...
She is not giving you that. She is taking.
Act and act now.
Pulp I agree with what Truegritter has said. Sounds to me like she is just stringing you along. I'd bet my paycheck she knows the time limit you have to move back home with your son and she knows she is screwed if you do.
You have bent over backwards for your W and look where it has gotten you. IMHO you need to take your son and go home. You need to do what's best for you and your son and it certainly isn't the place you are at now. I think if you stay there you are going to be very sorry. Please protect yourself.
Thanks for looking out guys.
My personal affairs are shaking out pretty nicely. I'm only 2 weeks in to a new job. Making a nice impression as a great new hire. I find the work fulfilling and rewarding. I'm not as worried about what she will do or won't do anymore. This is a very large company and with my background and drive, lots of room for advancement. I may be in a better position than I was back home. It will take time, just like the sitch, but I am confident in my abilities.
I'm not in the financial stanglehold I found myself in while unemployed. Now, we were living within our means on her income alone, and nowhere near financial ruin. It's just being a provider again has fulfilled more self-worth and given ME options.
She is still letting most of the child rearing duties fall in my court. I feel like I'm burning the candle at both ends sometimes. But she has picked up some responsibility in the last few days. I'm just taking care of what "I" can control. If she continues on her current trend... great. If she goes back to ONLY thinking about herself... oh well. She has to live with that. Not me.
I have a "I can do this" mindset now. Regardless of W's choices.
Grandma's funeral was today. 89yrs old. It was a celebration of a life well lived.
Grandpa died 25yrs ago when he was 72. She talked about him often. I can't help but think now of how lonely some or maybe most of those years must have been.
W offered a few words of kindness and sympathy to me.
On a lighter note, W was trying on a couple spring dresses last week and modeled them for me. She asked my opinion of them. I told her she looked nice, which she did.
That being something she hasn't done in a while along with our other positive interactions leaves me feeling good. I'm making some changes that I like about myself and maybe one day she'll tell me she likes them too.
We don't talk much if at all in the mornings. She has been sending me a text here and there during the middle of the day. Sometimes I respond sometimes I don't. From 6p.m. till 9p.m. things are really "normal". We share interesting tidbits about our day.(mostly her) We talk and joke and play with S together. After he goes to bed we just kinda go to our separate ends of the house. She still sleeps on the couch every nite.
Its not ideal but I will take the improvement. Seems like we are friends again.
Pulp
Don't make (or not make) decisions out of fear.
Only you know when that is happening. It seems to me you are watching your W too much and putting too much stock in little signs of "friendship" that may or may not mean anything with regards to where she is or is thinking of going.
IF, and WHEN you see sign of her owning her own actions in the demise of your M
Then I would consider her CONSISTENT actions in that direction.
I have seen nothing from her that shows me she desires to reconcile your M or consider her own part in what's happening to your M.
Until then Pulp. Protect yourself and make decisions that are best for YOU.
It seems to me you are watching your W too much and putting too much stock in little signs of "friendship" that may or may not mean anything with regards to where she is or is thinking of going.
Pulp- I have made this mistake over and over again. My W and I would joke around, flirt a little, and get along great and I would become hopeful of a potential R. Then she tells me she still wants a D.
I feel you can appreciate and be greatful for the good times and the fact that you can be friendly and enjoy each others company from time to time but do not set yourself up for major dissapointment by projecting future expectations.
I am finally aware of this dynamic and have been trying to not set any expectations but it is difficult.
Best!
I AM watching her. Probably too much. I get that I need to watch her to some extent per DR book. So I can adjust if need be. Backoff. I do have a small amount of momentum in a positive direction. That is strictly because of changes in how I choose to interact and react to various scenarios. I like me more. How I conduct myself.
You guys are just saying stay grounded. I'm not out of the woods. There is more to come. Lots more. Don't have any expectations. Right?
The M can only be repaired if/when she owns her side. One person can change the dynamics, but it takes two to have a real R.
I don't have the overwhelming fear I first had. I am not too big to admit that I can still allow myself to get wraped up and scared. But on a scale of 1-10 where I was at 10, I am now at 4. And the four is my current peak. Sometimes I'm at 0. I'm not thinking about this sh!t 24/7 anymore. I like that.
I am learning to detach. Trying. Doing better. I am a work in progress.
I have seen nothing from her that shows me she desires to reconcile your M or consider her own part in what's happening to your M.
You are right about that Gritter. Good point.
There has been NOTHING. I'll wasn't fully aware of that till you pointed it out. Thanks.
Glad to hear you are doing better! How is the GAL going, and the new job?
I've been checking on your sitch T^2. Not much activity lately. I will take that as a good sign. Glad to hear from you.
Job is good. Between work, recent family death, and the daily grind... honestly not much GAL.
I am still working out regularly. Finding fun new stuff to do with S. Working overtime when I can to make that paper. That is about it. Spare time just for me has been elusive lately.
S was supposed to have his first tee-ball practice today. He was pumped up. I got a call 4hrs before practice that S can't play. He is not old enough. It is a 5-6 yr old team. But in the fine print he was supposed to turn 5 by such and such date. Well he missed the cut-off by 9 days. "Oh it's policy sir."
So we are going to try karate tomorrow morning. Take that city league ball
It's crazy how things seemed to happen over nite. Not so long ago we were saying ILY, hugging, kissing, talking about another baby. W insisting that I get a new wedding band (my fingers have gotten a little fatter and I wasn't wearing it every day b/c it cut off circulation).
This was all happening right up until I exposed my hurt feelings (and tried to hurt her back if I'm being honest), accused her of cheating, name calling, begging, persuing, snooping, threatening to leave, etc., that things got all out of whack. That is on ME. I can see now that she wasn't DONE at ILYB, she was done when I did what LBSers tend to do.
I miss her so much. It is hard to be strong. I want to just grab her up, hold her, stare into her eyes, share a passionate kiss. Ok back to the real world.
I can't help but wonder how she can just turn off a switch. That's my problem. I wonder too much.
I wonder why she keeps her phone on vibrate. Why it is always in her pocket.
But then again she is not on the phone, or computer in a manner that makes me suspicious. I have never seen her ignore a call. She told me that she is not and has not been unfaithful... in any way. My heart believes her. My head swims.
One second I think I truly have made up the whole A thing. She is a good woman. She asked me to ask her to marry. We had a pact that we would always be faithful. That we would NEVER have an A. And that was her terms. She said she would cut off my junk.
Then I think, why so much smoke? Where is the fire. Don't be stupid.
I have my good days and I have these days. Tomorrow will be different. It always is.
We had an ok weekend. No arguing. No backsliding outwardly. Only my mind. She just seemed more distant. I don't know why I find myself consumed wondering what's going on at this moment.
I just miss the physical intamacy. Not just ML, but laying on the couch together, holding her hand, playing with her hair. The small stuff I took for granted.
Alright I'm done. STOP sign. Thanks for listening.
PW,
I understand where you are coming from where one day you're kissing and talking about the future and then the next day...bam it's all gone. My H was talking about having kids and moving only 6 months ago. Now, he has been living in his own apt for 5 weeks with little to no contact with me. He did have OW (maybe still does), so that makes our situation harder for me.
I also miss the little things that I now know I took for granted like laying on the couch and watching our TV shows and the simplicity of saying good night to each other every night. It makes me cry just thinking about that right now.
It's funny how you mention the wedding band, too, because my H for our 5 year wedding anniversary bought me another wedding band (that was just this past August). He knew I wanted another one, but said the nicest things when he gave it to me. How times have changed...now I can't get him to send me a simple text.
Hang in there...hopefully things will get better! Things can only go up right??
Thanks HAP,
Your empathy makes me feel alot better. If it weren't for you folks I would be so lost. It's nice to vent to strangers who I feel are good friends. Thanks everybody.
Pulp
You are still way too attached and it will continue to hurt you and cloud your judgment. When you feel ^^^^^^ those feelings you have to start trying to handle them and not let them linger. I used to wear a rubber band on my wrist and snap it when I had those thoughts.
Really detachment is your best friend. I am not going to try to convince you your w is having an affair. How bout lets just say she is no longer committed to your m and making choices that are best for her instead for you both and for the m.
You have accept that reality and find detachment or you will continue to spin your wheels and be a victim of this circumstance rather than taking charge of it yourself.
Control yourself and you will be the master of your own destiny.
Detach.
I left W a card (offering my sympathy for the loss of her mother this day last year) this morning before I left to take S to karate. It was a simple card and I didn't write anything extra. She hasn't acknowledged it and has left it on the kitchen counter, unopened I presume.
For a moment I allowed myself to wonder why. Then I remembered no expectations. I have done a nice gesture. I feel good about myself. So I will just leave it at that. Besides, what did I expect her reaction to be anyways?
We are booking flights to go back home in a few weeks for a short trip. It should be interesting to see how she interacts with family around. I am excited about going home, and seeing family. I am optimistic that it will be a fun trip.
I was weak and got the medicine I asked for.
We were talking rather nicely and I was feeling comfortable. I told her I love her, I miss her, I want to be there for her, can she forgive me, can we work on a new R, forget the past and move forward.
W reciprocated none of my feelings. In fact, she rolled her eyes a couple times. She said she could tell I was trying, but it was too little, too late. Why didn't I do it two years ago. Why did it have to go this far for me to listen to her. She has reached her breaking point. And that point had been reached even before we moved. That she hoped the move and fresh start could heal our R. But it only made it worse. She has no feelings for me. Not that way. Its just not there.
I listened and validated without defending myself or trying to convince her that her feelings were wrong. I am not proud of myself for introducing this conversation, but I am proud of how I handled the sting.
I naively thought I could frankly and honestly tell her my feelings and she would be glad to hear it. WRONG. I just cemented her feelings of nothingness.
She said she didn't have a plan to leave, but it was on her to do list. She did not have a place to go to. She did not have a timeline in which to find one. That she would not be taking very much. Her clothes, a couple pieces of antique furniture from her grandmother, the wall decor, some cookware.
I am a little depressed. But I know I will be ok. I asked for this. I needed a stutus check. All in all it went well. I mean we were able to discuss some tough stuff without anger.
I still have hope. But I have no expectation. I do not expect she will change her mind.
Letting go.
We have all done this, learn and let go.
FWIW, though our sitches are probably based on different motivations... my W said the same things back in Nov and Dec...she is still here, and things SEEM to be progressing positively...
She said she could tell I was trying, but it was too little, too late. Why didn't I do it two years ago. Why did it have to go this far for me to listen to her. She has reached her breaking point. And that point had been reached even before we moved. That she hoped the move and fresh start could heal our R.
Projection, rationalization, imho, and lacking understanding that "there" is no different than "here", because once you arrive at or go "there", it becomes "here"...if you bring the same "self" from "here" to "there".
She had a role in this, she is avoiding that reality, easier to throw poo than look in the mirror. Until she looks at her role, its limbo-land.
Grit has good advice, and your W isnt in mlc-crazy-reality-done-went-buh-bye mode, so what might be working for me may not apply in your sitch.
Hang in there!
T^2
I'm making an apt. with DB coach.
I'm doing ok. Just thought I was somehow better than everyone else I guess. The DB rules don't apply to me or something. This is a long haul. No definite outcome of the future.
I just want to raise our S together more than anything.
Truthfully, I am no longer "in love" with this woman anymore. Haven't been for a good while. However I do love her more than at any point in the past. This has always been true. My love has grown a little each day. That "in love" feeling is nothing more than lust IMO. That fades. It is not real. It is a chemical reaction.
Enough of that.
I know what I have to do. Keep the focus on me. Do things that make me happy. Leave her the he!! alone. That is what she has asked for. I'm listening. I just don't always do what I know I should do. I will.
P.S.
You folks who have been doing this for many months or years are TOUGH. I admire you and have lots of respect. My heart hurts.
Coaching session went good.
Back to the basics. Keep it simple stupid.
My problem is I see positives from my changes and I want MORE. Wanting more gets me less.
Backing off gets me more. I gotta stick with that.
Glad to hear your coaching session went well, Pulp!
I can't be reminded enough to back off.
As you say:
Leave them the he!! alone. That is what they asked for.
We need to show we're listening. Otherwise it's just more of the same for our spouses.
NLW
I find myself falling into the "MORE!" trap all the time...especially after ANY positive interactions with W...can you say "not detached enough" T^2?
You would think after the amount of time that has passed that I would have that "BACK OFF" thingy down pat...buuuuttttt nooooo...I set myself up for it...damn the torpedoes and all.
After the last couple weeks of improvement, Sunday and this morning I found me impatient and wanting to push/resolve...thanks for the reminder...:)
I am happy for you that you got the coaching!
Pulp
See my last post.
I see you taking way more of your share of blame.
Stop it. You might have been or felt like the guy you're W is saying you are but the time for taking those arrows is over.
Now is YOUR time. Do for you. Make changes for you.
If
If
She sees them and wants try to put the M back then YOU can decide if she is showing you someone that is choosing to make a commitment to your M.
Then that is up to YOU.
Love is not a feeling it is a conscious choice from what I have learned.
Feelings blow with the wind.
Time for some different methods to find your peace and happiness here Pulp
I find visualization very helpful. When I get in those stuck places I visualize two parallel paths, I'm on one, H on the other. The paths have bends and obstacles but we are progressing along those paths, each keeping our own pace. As I continue on my path toward becoming the LaBug I want to be, H is there to see that happening, or not, as he chooses. He may decide to stop and take a rest, or get waylaid by an obstacle or he might even decide to take a right turn onto another path. I have no control of that but his choices should have no effect on my goal.
Thanks so much for the wisdom and encouragment, everyone. I mean it.
I have the rubber band on Gritter. I will use it.
I am feeling better within myself a little each day. I do still tie some of my happiness to her indifference. Ok a lot. It is the source of all of my unhappiness ATM. But, as I said, feeling a little better all the time.
I'm going to start a new chapter next time I post. I think it fits with my current place in life and learing. Time to start a new chapter. Ahh. Out with the old. In with the new.
Hey PW,
Any movement or updates with your sitch lately?
Hope all is going better....
T^2