First thread here Well, looks like I hit 100 on the first one.
The story so far: it's been about 2 months since my wife said she wanted a divorce. I've seen her actually probably only once in the past month, but we communicate a few times a week by text (it's long been her preferred mode).
While I absolutely don't want a divorce, I had to cut her off the joint account after she'd cleaned it out with frivolous spending (she hasn't worked in over a year). But interestingly, immediately after having done that, we were able to agree to a monthly support plan that I could afford and that's allowed us to stop fighting and arguing about it. While our communication now is still about divorce papers and her moving out, it's not hostile or argumentative.
She says she's done the paperwork online (which as I said in my previous thread I find an abhorrent concept) and just needs to have it notarized. She's been packing up her things at the house this week while I've been at work. I may even help her load up Monday afternoon (I asked if there was anything I could do for her, and that's what she came back with...). Looks like the cats, one of which was hers before we met and the second "we" adopted, will stay here for now; she doesn't think she'll be able to have them for now wherever it is she's living. But truth be told, I don't mind the fuzzy little companionship
Her sister and mother have both reached out and are supportive of me and the marriage; they and the marriage counselor my wife and I saw twice strongly suspect depression or some other mental health issue may also be at play in all our ups and downs - not to deflect any responsibility for my own missteps and the things I've needed to learn and work on.
In the meantime, I'm physically active (lifting, swimming, biking, working toward a half marathon, skiing), work is actually going well. Re-engaging some old interests I haven't been able to partake in due to moving and deployments, and continuing to learn from the ways I've contributed to the mess we're in now.
Thanks to everyone who helped on the last thread, and thanks in advance for continued help in the future...
Hey Kolja, just read up on your situation. Hope you're doing well. Is your wife aware of her depression? What do you think brought that about?
Hang in there, man. It's wonderful that you are becoming more active physically. How are you coping or improving on the mental/emotional front? That's equally, if not more important too.
Cheers.
In the meantime, I'm physically active (lifting, swimming, biking, working toward a half marathon, skiing), work is actually going well. Re-engaging some old interests I haven't been able to partake in due to moving and deployments, and continuing to learn from the ways I've contributed to the mess we're in now.
Nicely done here - I can learn from this approach!
She's aware enough of it to have mentioned it a couple times. Once to me (last January) and once in counseling. But after two counseling visits together and two by her to an individual counselor, she decided none of it was helping and has since resisted / not sought any treatment. She has rarely since I've known her slept well and is prone to migraines, but a suggestion that she ask an MD about the possibility of poor sleep and depression brought a screaming, hostile response.
Before there were problems with us, she was unhappy with her job. When she finally quit, she was happy for a couple weeks but then unhappy again, and this time because of me. Whatever was already there was exacerbated when I got arrested for DUI (later reckless driving) - her absentee first father and her first husband both had SEVERE drug and alcohol dependency issues and so I think I may have triggered a lot with that. There were of course other issues (i much later have come to learn that without even being aware of it i could come off condescending, controlling, correctin and disrespectful) but that's always been the first thing she mentions even though it's been about a year ago. By now even the state and the navy have forgiven me.
Emotionally, I have my down days but not for long. I have a few friends who I'm sure would privately just as soon see me move on but are, at least when talking to me, supportive. Ive been talking to Chuck from the Divorce Busting Center and a local counselor here. Like I said her sister and mom have been supportive which is helpful emotionally even though there's not much they can do right now. Among other things to keep my emotional state in check, I practice the 'emotional stop sign' that Michele mentions in DR (she mentions it in the context of dealin with infidelity but I use it to stave off negative emotions in my own situation). My rule is I only allow thoughts of bitterness, betrayal, self pity or anything like that to linger when I'm running (and only then because it makes me run faster!) otherwise I consciously stop and refocus on something positive. To help with THAT i try to acknowledge and be grateful for as much as I can no matter how simple. Had a nice swim or run? I allow myself to "bask" in it, for example.
I've read enough stories here to know that her filing doesn't have to write anything in stone. While I'd prefer to avoid it of course, I know other couples have gone down that road and farther and in some cases it was necessary to go trough that part of the process.
Last night I learned from my sister in law that my wife had decided to take a job in Arizona. My wife was here this morning going through things of hers in the garage (she gave up on us so quickly that she never even really finished moving in). She hadn't mentioned anything about taking an out of state job, so I jus asked her about her job hunt. Turns out she hits the road Tuesday.
Its no more discouraging than the divorce itself I guess, but it does seem to impose a bigger obstacle to reconciling. It's also kind of astounding given how close she's always been to her mom, sister and nieces.
I'm no expert and DEFINITELY don't have all of the answers, but i feel for you, man. I was tossed out by my wife about a month ago - she too has mental health issues (bipolar disorder), and i can read between the lines to your pain. It's really hard to be with someone who is emotionally unwell. It tends to bring out the worst in us.
And people who are emotionally unwell also tend to make big decisions, like moving to AZ out of the blue, without giving much thought to the consequences.
Hang in there - I will be praying for you. It sounds like you Are doing good things, so keep it up!
Thanks Yogoer.
She was just over again this morning to do some more packing up. It's hard to watch (and, while in the grand scheme of things it's minor, I'm totally not looking forward to trying to wrestle a mattress from the guest room back into the master bedroom...).
I guess it's a necessary part of our unique journey. Two friends in whom I confide, one who's met her and saw us when we were 'good' together, don't think her time down there will be very long. But, ironic as it sounds I'm looking forward to the move process being done so I can clean up and rearrange and have my home feel like home. Even if I AM hoping sooner rather than later we're moving her back in.
While she was here we were civil, even a little friendly. I helped her reach a couple high things she wanted to take. She asked if it was OK to leave a few things, which of course I said it was. She's left a lot of detritus (all sorts of random stuff she's just moved from place to place and hasn't actually looked at in years) in the garage she said I should just get rid of, but I told her I'd ask before doing anything with anything of hers. It's almost like she expects me to take anything of hers outside and start a bonfire. She has already said she'll be back sometime in the summer; she hopes that's when she can get the cats, and a few other things. It looks like that will be my next chance to show her a husband worth coming back to.
One thing Chuck, my DB coach, suggested in addition to offering to help her (a 180 of sorts) was to get her favorite candy or something like that. So I picked up some pistachios, which I know she likes and I figure would be a good road-trip snack, and will set them out for her when I leave for work tomorrow, the day she's going to come over and load up the u-haul. I'm planning on leaving a note too - not anything deep or romantic, just wishing her a safe trip and good luck with the new job. Even though she KNOWS this isn't what I want it seems like there could be some value in letting her know I still support her and believe in her.
Well, her u-haul is all loaded and she was gone by the time I got home. There was just a little bit of a mess that should keep me busy the next few evenings and maybe weekends - nothing spiteful, no 'scorched earth' or anything like that. Just the normal sort of thing you see when someone moves out of a place. And working on squaring away the house will actually be kind of good for me.
There's stuff she couldn't take this trip - not the least of which is her cats. So we'll have to see each other again - which for me is an OPPORTUNITY of course. And in the meantime I have plenty of OPPORTUNITY for growth... and financial recovery!
While she's going to swing by tonight to have me sign some sort of divorce paperwork - which I'm absolutely NOT looking forward to - I couldn't help but notice that she did take a few pictures of us like one from a military formal we had gone to, and at least a couple wedding pictures. That actually cheered me a bit. While I know that I'LL be OK one way or another, this helps me feel like there's still a glimmer of hope for US.
Kolja-
It must have been hard to come home to an "empty" house. Even though you knew this day would come and you prepared yourself the best you could, but seeing all the stuff gone must have been hard. Take this time to grow as a person and let her face the problems.
"If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, it's yours forever. If it dosent, then it was never meant to be."
I think it is a very good sign that she took pictures of both of you. It shows that she still cares. She might just need to take this journey, but I do hope that she'll come back to you!
So sorry man. Hang in there and I admire your postive attitude!
Thanks, nh and Grmpy.
I'm glad you see a good sign too! Another friend has just told me the same thing about it being a sign she still cares and cause for at least a little hope.
It was DEFINITELY sad to see the emptier house. I make the choice - even though admittedly, I have to REPEATEDLY and consciously make it - to see this as an opportunity for both of us.
Kolja:
Hang in there. I had a similar experience, but helped my WAW load her Uhaul, bought her a bed on the way out of town, and hugged her goodbye before she drove away. Heart wrentching...
Never lose hope. Keep the way home paved and smooth. Give her time on her own. If she was meant to come back to you, she will. She is on her own journey, and has to travel the road on her own.
Keep the faith. Improve yourself. Be strong. And most of all, remember this is a marathon, not a sprint. This is going to take time, potentially a lot of time.
Be the best you can be. Be the man she would be a fool to leave. GAL like a madman. Dwelling will wear your down. Trust me. Look forward.
Good luck.
Her plans changed SLIGHTLY in that she didn't bring papers over last night, she left them at the house today while I was at work. It was her petition, which I went ahead and signed (nothing to be gained by being obstinate over it).
The only disagreement was over the $280 filing fee. Given the totality of the circumstance, and that I was assuming a small amount of her debt, I didn't feel that was fair. She readily agreed to pay me back, but instantly reminded me that I was "the one who ****ed up the marriage." Here's where I backslid shortly - I acknowledged that I made mistakes, but said I had never stopped wanting to make it right. She said I hadn't learned ANYTHING. Given the time, money and effort I've put in to trying to learn over the last couple months, I asked why she said that. She said because I was still drinking. I drink MUCH MUCH less than we were dating and in fact for a solid six months there was never any beer in the house at all (when even she drank), and while I didn't say this to HER (absolutely nothing to be gained by arguing here), the fact is she's one of worse binge drinkers herself that I've ever seen. She passed out on our wedding night, and last may she threw up on herself in a taxi cab after tying it on - among other episodes. Also, over a year ago she specifically SAID she didn't want me to stop entirely. Anyway, I find it interesting THAT'S what she came back to, when there's a bit of pot and kettle, when it's an area of my life I had made changes in to accommodate her sensibilities, and where I had offered to make more. But, aside from reminding her that I had cut way back out of deference to her preferences and had offered to quit entirely, I didn't defend myself here at all.
Anyway, that exchange was short enough. At the end, before I could stop myself (I find it hard to do that - stop myself - when she leads the conversation back to her original rationale, something I could clearly stand to work on in terms of recognizing the trigger and avoiding it...), I told her that if she rethought things, the door would still be open to her. She said she wouldn't be rethinking, and not to think there's a chance.
None of what they say, half of what they do and all that...
^^^ damn that's harsh. Kolja, remember that you are the Sh!t! You are taking the high road.Who knows, you may something really cool up there.
"find something really cool up there". wish we could edit.
Sorry about the last few days Kolja. I love your attitude in looking at this as an opportunity and perhaps a necessity in getting to where you want to go.
You seem ready for a long journey which we all need to be.
Best!!
You know, this may sound strange, but the harshness and volatility make it a little easier to take without totally being at wits end. Maybe it's that theory that love and hate are actually close on the spectrum. She certainly doesn't sound apathetic. And, thanks in large part to what I learned here, I have at least some appreciation of her headspace right now. While its all rational to her, she IS to a
Certain extent still acting out of hurt and desperation. She and I each have a way to go on our individual journeys before we have any hope of journeying together again. I think if her reaction was totally dispassionate, cool and unemotional, I'd feel much worse.
Ya, when my W moved out, she took 0 pictures that had me in them, none of the gifts/cards I had ever given her, I was deleted and blocked from her FB and deleted all pics of me that had been in her FB. So much anger and resentment.
So, that she took some pics of the two of you is interesting.
She readily agreed to pay me back, but instantly reminded me that I was "the one who ****ed up the marriage." Here's where I backslid shortly - I acknowledged that I made mistakes, but said I had never stopped wanting to make it right.
Defensive, bzzzzt. Better: I'm sorry you feel that way, hon [or whatever is right for you guys at this time]. I am sorry for hurting you and for my role in this."
She said I hadn't learned ANYTHING. Given the time, money and effort I've put in to trying to learn over the last couple months, I asked why she said that. She said because I was still drinking. I drink MUCH MUCH less than we were dating and in fact for a solid six months there was never any beer in the house at all (when even she drank), and while I didn't say this to HER (absolutely nothing to be gained by arguing here), the fact is she's one of worse binge drinkers herself that I've ever seen... But, aside from reminding her that I had cut way back out of deference to her preferences and had offered to quit entirely, I didn't defend myself here at all.
Defensive and what she is doing is irrelevant. Look, Kolja, let's say your drinking (for hypothetical sake) was a dealbreaker for her (or litmus test for her of whether or not you care for her and listen to her). Would you totally give up all drinking for her? Or was it more important to you to have a drink or 8 here and there than to be married to her?
If she views your drinking, ANY drinking, as problematic (even if you don't), you guys will always be in conflict about it, and she will feel unheard. And even if you offered it before, that's not where she is in that moment. Whether you view it as rational or not, you have to hear and respond to where she is in that moment.
Better: You know, W. You are right. I've cut back, but didn't fully get how important it was to you that I REALLY STOP drinking until now. Yeah, I get it now, it was a big issue in our relationship and has been in other ways for me. It's time I not let it be an issue in my life anymore. Thanks for caring enough to bring it up again.
I told her that if she rethought things, the door would still be open to her. She said she wouldn't be rethinking, and not to think there's a chance.
Stop saying this. It is pursuit, and she knows where you stand. You are better off focusing on yourself, with her unsure of where you stand.
Leaving the clear path home, in my opinion, is more about how you interact with them when THEY approach you, rather than repeatedly showing to them that there is a path home and you want them to take it.
There were definitely some missteps. Im glad I recognized them sooner than before and didn't carry the conversation along that way longer like I had in the past.
Her attitudes about alcohol are really confusing to me (so frustrating that she didn't want to continue the counseling because I so desperately want to understand how we have gone from a couple who could party together to where it seems like any drink, even if only one and no matter how infrequently, is a sign to her of an enduring problem. And at point did she ever clearly tell me what she wanted one way or another so I was kind of left to guess. I feel like we could have really benefitted from some professional help working through the attitudes surrounding this issue.
There will be more opportunity for interaction in the course of the legal process, and the things she's left here that she still wants - so I feel like I have opportunities to do better.
In addition to the pictures, she took gifts that I has given her. Including a flag we took along on a flight over Afghanistan. We made up a certificate - in her married name - that the crew all signed and I had it framed. Along with other things I have given her over the past 2 1/2 years.
There were definitely some missteps. Im glad I recognized them sooner than before and didn't carry the conversation along that way longer like I had in the past.
This developing insight is great news. The earlier "Oops, not this again" progresses to the effortful, but successful "Ha, I'm not going to make the same mistake this time", progresses to the effortless, more automatic, "I remember when I would have handled it THAT way before."
Her attitudes about alcohol are really confusing to me (so frustrating that she didn't want to continue the counseling because I so desperately want to understand how we have gone from a couple who could party together to where it seems like any drink, even if only one and no matter how infrequently, is a sign to her of an enduring problem. And at point did she ever clearly tell me what she wanted one way or another so I was kind of left to guess. I feel like we could have really benefited from some professional help working through the attitudes surrounding this issue.
Yeah, it's hard to know at what point she began to view things differently (whether she was unhappy and not communicating/sharing with you [or you not hearing the way she was communicating] or whether it is revisionist history)
Do you have a sense of how WAS left previous relationships? Do you have a sense if WAS is running TO anything (anyone?) or if she is running AWAY?
I have the sense right now she's running AWAY. The impression I get is that she took the job she did down there because there was nothing here. But it's tough to tell. There could be more in play, considering the bridges she's trying to burn with her family, with whom she HAD been quite close.
Also interesting is that in the petition she asked to have her surname changed back to her original maiden name - the one of her biological father, who left when she was an infant. She positively loathes him and has never even referred to him as her father, only calling him "sperm donor"
Minor update - not much about the wife, I'm pretty sure she made it safe to Arizona but that's all. But today I had a nice 90 minute visit with my counselor. At the end, she didn't have any suggestions for me - because she said she thought I was doing all the right things for myself and in the situation, such as it is. It was nice validation. So, even though it's been all of three days since my wife hit the road for another state leaving a dissolution petition on the counter, I actually feel pretty decent all things considered...
Happy V-Day to an awesome guy!!
I'm renaming it Victory-Day for all us LBsers!!!
Thanks, purg!
Same to you and everyone else!
Pretty busy day at work so not much time to chat, but a bunch of us did go out for lunch so there's that...
Heh - so busy in fact, I didn't even notice that.
I was going to write an update, but there isn't anything to really update. But I'm doing alright with it though - to be honest, today I'm more perturbed about the fact that with the meetings today, I've been eating like garbage all day and had to forgo the pool this morning!!
A week after she hit the road, I heard from my wife tonight.
Of course, it was just to tell me she had a new address and ask about her monthly payment (right ON payday so it's not like I was dragging my feet).
Coincidentally enough I had just written a check to drop off at her bank (it's a national one). I had debated texting her to tell her, but reflected on it, and realized the only thing my telling her about it would do would be to ADVERTISE it so I'd feel better and see what kind of reaction I would get. In other words, nothing ACTUALLY constructive. So I thought better of it; I figured I'd let the depositing speak for itself.
Then of course she asks about it
I told her I was glad she had made it there safe and sound, then left it at that.
"I had debated texting her to tell her, but reflected on it, and realized the only thing my telling her about it would do would be to ADVERTISE it so I'd feel better and see what kind of reaction I would get. In other words, nothing ACTUALLY constructive. So I thought better of it; I figured I'd let the depositing speak for itself."
Good for you Kolja! The self awareness is so important and then to act on what you become aware of in a way that is different from before shows growth on your part. Keep the changes going!
Thanks 2tp! Always good to get some feedback and validation.
Strangely, despite the subject matter (she also asked if I put the dissolution petition in the mail), I feel good about the whole thing. I'm pretty happy with the way I handled it, and I'm actually quite happy to have heard from her soon after her hitting the road (1 week). I don't say that from a place of mind reading (reading significance into it - it IS payday and she probably could really use the cash) but from a place of gratitude - with the physical distance between us I realize that the opportunities to show her "a husband worth coming back to" may very well be few and far between. I had the opportunity and don't feel that I squandered it.
Deposited her first check today. It was a little strange - not that I regret the agreement we came to (because it did - for the most part - change the tone of our conversations for the better). I guess it was more of a feeling that I wish it hadn't come to this - while at te same time I realize the time apart is necessary for the both of us...
The firsts and lasts are always hard.
I forgot, did you guys discuss how long the payments will continue?
What have you got going on in the next couple of weeks? You guys still have snow on the slopes? How's your training coming, and when is your race?
December will be the last one. All in all, I feel it was a fair compromise. Given her lack of work (ie 'need') and my salary (ie 'ability to pay') I was counseled that I would almost certainly wind up owing her some form of support anyway if I contested it, to say nothing of the lawyer fees. Plus of course there's the fact that FIGHTING over it wasn't helping any with the longer term goal.
Funny you mention the slopes - Dad will be here from the other side of the mountains a week from today. He was coming over for work anyway, and thought we could turn it into a chance to ski. Dad started me on skiing back when I was 9 or so - he picked it up a couple years later, reasoning it was more fun for HIM to ski than to sit in the lodge and wait for me to finish my lessons. So, next weekend we'll be up there.
The half marathon is on 15 April. On the program I've found and put myself on, the mileage has started to increase. I'm pretty happy about not missing a run, or a day in the weightroom, yet. The few workouts I've missed have all been swims, but I know I can afford a few of those and still be able to pass the navy's semiannual test without too much trouble.
Today I'm sending off the taxes to be done. We had agreed to split the refund 50/50, so hopefully it will be decent sized one. I'm also putting the petition in the mail, to the one county in the state that, abhorrently enough, allows you to file by mail. I didn't send it in before, because I wanted to wait till payday before paying the $280 fee, which she has PROMISED to pay back, but we shall see...
Today, I had to tell my wife I had some mail for her. She gave me her address, in Goodyear, AZ. Then something KIND of interesting happened - she said once she had checks she would send me money for the filing fee, but then asked if I was willing to split it at all.
I thought about it a bit. I know I should be SUPPORTIVE of her getting the space she needs and all that, but realistically I feel I'm doing plenty of that by sending her money every month, not discarding things she's left behind here and wants to come back and get, forwarding her mail, and all that. Splitting the fee was a bridge too far.
So, I said no. I expected her to retaliate, blame me for everything again, and just generally be hostile. But she didn't, and wasn't - instead she said "OK Well it's all good..."
Mind reading would be a can of worms (and ultimately an unsatisfactory one) so I'll just be content that a hostile tirade didn't ensue, and try very hard not to wonder what it meant.
In the meantime I'm recovering from my 6 mile run and getting set to head out to Costco. It probably won't be a cheap trip but on the other hand, aside from occasionally picking up milk or something like that, I won't have to shop again for 6-8 weeks!
Good job sticking to your guns about splitting the fee!
The 'legal' talks always make me sick to my stomach.
Good luck on your race!
Kolja, I have to go back and read your first posts. You were married such a short time before she decided to flake.
Yeah. We were at about 16 months of marriage when she made her announcement. Granted I did my share to nudge us in this direction but it's hard to wrap ones head around not wanting to try just a little more.
Well, in the past few days or so, there's been a couple positive interactions. As I might have mentioned, she left her cats behind (which seemed - and still seems - quite out of character for her because of how attached she was to them, especially the older one she had before we met). Anyway, as I was doing laundry on Sunday, one decided to hop in the open dryer to check things out and 'help' - which I thought was pretty funny. Figuring she had to be missing the little fellas, and that she'd probably appreciate the chuckle, I sent her a picture. It actually went over quite well - I had a few more on my phone which I sent. It was the first time in I don't know how long we had an interaction that didn't include any mention of divorce, money, moving, or anything like that.
This morning came another one. In November, before she announced her decision to get a divorce, tickets to a concert by one of her favorite bands this spring went on sale and I snatched up a pair on 'pre-sale' (which sounds an awful like 'pre-boarding' with the airlines but I digress). Well, of course, she winds up getting a job a thousand or more miles away. This morning while I was at the gym (lifting and a five mile run), she texted to ask if I wanted them back, or if she could give them to her sister's younger daughter (the one who's still at home). I said to go ahead and give it to our niece; she asked if I was sure so I said "do you think she'd enjoy it?" she said "yes definitely" so I again said I think she should have them, and my wife thanked me and seemed rather happy.
As for me, I appreciate the opportunity for some positive interaction. Sure it would be nice if it weren't taking place over such geographic distance, but you've got to play the cards you're dealt...
Not much new to update. Dad's visit went well, we had a good time skiing and a nice visit to Leavenworth (WA, not KS). Work goes well, even if at the moment left over desserts from a work potluck are 5' from my desk... at least tomorrow is a 5 mile day!
My year-long suspension of on-base driving is over, which is fortunate because weather has taken a nasty turn and the last couple days I've been glad to not be bicycling on and off base. Before moving, my wife was very interested in how the base-access decals on her car would be renewed (it's mildly curious as to why she cares, since she won't be a dependant much longer the way things are going). I found out, it will actually be pretty easy - when I told her, she said she'd see what she can do and that was it. Maybe it's not as important to her now that she's moved. Other than that things between us have been quiet. The space isn't all that bad, actually - and watching the balance on a few debts start to tick down makes me glad to at least have the FINANCIAL opportunity this presents.
Only somewhat related, I came across this on the internet, about military wives. I'd wanted to send it to my wife, since she's seen me through 2 of my 5 deployments (a 7 month cruise before we got married, and about 6 weeks last summer... though in fairness that one WAS to a nice Air Force Base in Europe and hardly counts as a hardship). Anyway, I know she probably wouldn't care to see it right now so I thought I would post it here. It's poignant - makes me grateful for what she HAD brought into my life, and hopeful that she'll continue to be a part of it in the future.
============================================================
What a Military Spouse Knows
As many of you know, my husband came home from our third deployment not too long ago. During the deployment, a reporter asked me to share “What I Knew” about deployments and military life. This was my answer:
As I forced my hands to unfurl from his neck, feeling the familiar sting in my nose as tears pushed against my will, the words rattled and echoed in my brain. “Not again.”
I watched him walk away–that uniform, identifiable gait—and my heart bent and splintered as the reality of a third deployment began to shower over me.
I picked up the phone, dialing the numbers my numb fingers always meander toward, and sat in silence while she tried to ease my pain. “I can’t imagine…He will be home….I’m here.”
And then she said six words that shot through my ears, penetrated my brain, and stiffened my spine: “You know how to do this.”
She was right. I do know how to do this. I intimately know the all-too familiar lump in my throat. The year of being both father and mother, making the best of a situation. I know exactly how one year feels as I X each day off my calendar. And I know how to ensure that while our lives are on hold, we still live.
The truth is I know a lot:
The thought of being alone for a year doesn’t bother me. The fear of being alone for a lifetime—does.
Flat rate boxes can hold twenty whoopee cushions, four kindergarten projects, and five perfume-scented letters.
Technology can be a double-edged sword—one side delivering his face; the other a brutal live-action feed of explosions and camouflaged body parts.
Murphy’s Law is a constant companion. The moment he walks out the door, anything that can break, collapse, bleed, or explode–will .
Five hours of uninterrupted sleep is a gift from the deployment gods
Holidays are hard, but manageable.
Deployments come and go, but sand from his boots never leaves.
Nothing can replace a handwritten letter. Through those beautifully folded pages, he is holding my hand again.
When the National Anthem is played, I know goosebumps will rise on my arms, and a lump will fill my throat.
The silence in communication following a war zone attack is agonizing.
Laughter is a powerful ally.
Each deployment offers two options: grow or regress. This is a choice.
Cereal is always a dinner option.
Videos of lost teeth, ballerina recitals, and preschool graduations can be emailed to Iraq nearly instantly.
Five powers of attorney and the intimate details of his will are needed to navigate a deployment.
White out blizzards can actually bury a truck in five minutes.
Rosie the Riveter was right: We can do it.
Children cling to hope and the promise of tomorrow.
Living in each moment together is possible when facing the fear that it could be your last.
Welcome home kisses are sweeter than the finest chocolate.
Anger will grip me and depression can hold me, but another military spouse will steady me.
A six-year-old child can feel the absence of her father so deeply that she can suffer from clinical depression.
A military spouse will often hold her/his tongue, silencing a story, for fear of sounding “unpatriotic.”
The sound of a bugle can make my heart swell with pride or collapse in sorrow.
Duct tape and a monkey wrench can fix nearly anything.
Despite the protestors and those who tell me I “knew” what I was getting into, I know there are countless American citizens who will go above and beyond to show they support us.
There are many things I know.
I know how to change the brakes on my truck, rappel from the side of a cliff, shoot a double-barreled shotgun, balance a checkbook, earn my keep, and kiss a child enough to feel like two.
But there are still so many things I don’t know.
I don’t know how to start my heart again when I see a death notification car on my street.
When that knock echoes on the door of my neighbor, I don’t know how to forgive myself when I am relieved.
I don’t know how to hug him enough to last a lifetime, or kiss him just so in order to feel satisfied—should our reunion be at the foot of a pine box.
I’m not willing to learn how to pretend he doesn’t exist, to keep him out of our life while it goes on without him, or to build a wall so high he has no way to scale it.
I don’t know how to stop his panic attacks, and I have no idea how to make my nightmares of rampant bombs and lifeless limbs disappear.
I don’t know how to adjust to his presence in my house when our floor rarely feels the weight of his boots.
I don’t know how to tell his small children that, yes, he leaves them all the time. But because he loves them so deeply, he is willing to die to keep them free.
I can’t understand those who would question my desire to stay with him, or how I can peacefully sleep beside a “killer.”
I am amazed and confounded that despite all he has seen, he still has the courage to laugh.
I don’t’ know how to give up on my family.
But, most importantly:
I have no clue how to still my pounding heart when he finally walks through our door again, I don’t know how to pull my hands from his sand-stained neck and say goodbye, and I don’t know how to ever walk away from a man who stands while many choose to sit.
Yes, alot of folks here would like this I'm sure so I'm bumping it. I am in awe.
"Those who wait, also serve."
Kolja, thank you do much for posting this. I also appreciate that you (as a service member) respect the sacrifices we - the military spouse- make in support of your career. I wish my H would have found this and sent it to me.
When I stop crying, I'll post more.
My first two cruises were as a single dude. Logistically, I had it pretty much wired. Dad checked on wherever I happened to live at the time when he was nearby on business; I knew what utilities to suspend, and even managed to time grocery runs and eating so I never had to throw too much out, or be rudely surprised by any science experiements 6 months later. But, no matter how much of a hardass I tried to be, the fact that no one was at the homecomings to see ME was kind of uncool. And, after everyone left with their families, having to bum a ride home (to hope the truck still started so I could go get something to eat) was also unfun.
It was DEFINITELY better having someone to come home to
Even if things never improve, I'll be grateful for having at least had that opportunity!
Not much new to update. Dad's visit went well, we had a good time skiing and a nice visit to Leavenworth (WA, not KS). Work goes well, even if at the moment left over desserts from a work potluck are 5' from my desk... at least tomorrow is a 5 mile day!
My year-long suspension of on-base driving is over, which is fortunate because weather has taken a nasty turn and the last couple days I've been glad to not be bicycling on and off base. Before moving, my wife was very interested in how the base-access decals on her car would be renewed (it's mildly curious as to why she cares, since she won't be a dependant much longer the way things are going). I found out, it will actually be pretty easy - when I told her, she said she'd see what she can do and that was it. Maybe it's not as important to her now that she's moved. Other than that things between us have been quiet. The space isn't all that bad, actually - and watching the balance on a few debts start to tick down makes me glad to at least have the FINANCIAL opportunity this presents.
Only somewhat related, I came across this on the internet, about military wives. I'd wanted to send it to my wife, since she's seen me through 2 of my 5 deployments (a 7 month cruise before we got married, and about 6 weeks last summer... though in fairness that one WAS to a nice Air Force Base in Europe and hardly counts as a hardship). Anyway, I know she probably wouldn't care to see it right now so I thought I would post it here. It's poignant - makes me grateful for what she HAD brought into my life, and hopeful that she'll continue to be a part of it in the future.
============================================================
What a Military Spouse Knows
As many of you know, my husband came home from our third deployment not too long ago. During the deployment, a reporter asked me to share “What I Knew” about deployments and military life. This was my answer:
As I forced my hands to unfurl from his neck, feeling the familiar sting in my nose as tears pushed against my will, the words rattled and echoed in my brain. “Not again.”
I watched him walk away–that uniform, identifiable gait—and my heart bent and splintered as the reality of a third deployment began to shower over me.
I picked up the phone, dialing the numbers my numb fingers always meander toward, and sat in silence while she tried to ease my pain. “I can’t imagine…He will be home….I’m here.”
And then she said six words that shot through my ears, penetrated my brain, and stiffened my spine: “You know how to do this.”
She was right. I do know how to do this. I intimately know the all-too familiar lump in my throat. The year of being both father and mother, making the best of a situation. I know exactly how one year feels as I X each day off my calendar. And I know how to ensure that while our lives are on hold, we still live.
The truth is I know a lot:
The thought of being alone for a year doesn’t bother me. The fear of being alone for a lifetime—does.
Flat rate boxes can hold twenty whoopee cushions, four kindergarten projects, and five perfume-scented letters.
Technology can be a double-edged sword—one side delivering his face; the other a brutal live-action feed of explosions and camouflaged body parts.
Murphy’s Law is a constant companion. The moment he walks out the door, anything that can break, collapse, bleed, or explode–will .
Five hours of uninterrupted sleep is a gift from the deployment gods
Holidays are hard, but manageable.
Deployments come and go, but sand from his boots never leaves.
Nothing can replace a handwritten letter. Through those beautifully folded pages, he is holding my hand again.
When the National Anthem is played, I know goosebumps will rise on my arms, and a lump will fill my throat.
The silence in communication following a war zone attack is agonizing.
Laughter is a powerful ally.
Each deployment offers two options: grow or regress. This is a choice.
Cereal is always a dinner option.
Videos of lost teeth, ballerina recitals, and preschool graduations can be emailed to Iraq nearly instantly.
Five powers of attorney and the intimate details of his will are needed to navigate a deployment.
White out blizzards can actually bury a truck in five minutes.
Rosie the Riveter was right: We can do it.
Children cling to hope and the promise of tomorrow.
Living in each moment together is possible when facing the fear that it could be your last.
Welcome home kisses are sweeter than the finest chocolate.
Anger will grip me and depression can hold me, but another military spouse will steady me.
A six-year-old child can feel the absence of her father so deeply that she can suffer from clinical depression.
A military spouse will often hold her/his tongue, silencing a story, for fear of sounding “unpatriotic.”
The sound of a bugle can make my heart swell with pride or collapse in sorrow.
Duct tape and a monkey wrench can fix nearly anything.
Despite the protestors and those who tell me I “knew” what I was getting into, I know there are countless American citizens who will go above and beyond to show they support us.
There are many things I know.
I know how to change the brakes on my truck, rappel from the side of a cliff, shoot a double-barreled shotgun, balance a checkbook, earn my keep, and kiss a child enough to feel like two.
But there are still so many things I don’t know.
I don’t know how to start my heart again when I see a death notification car on my street.
When that knock echoes on the door of my neighbor, I don’t know how to forgive myself when I am relieved.
I don’t know how to hug him enough to last a lifetime, or kiss him just so in order to feel satisfied—should our reunion be at the foot of a pine box.
I’m not willing to learn how to pretend he doesn’t exist, to keep him out of our life while it goes on without him, or to build a wall so high he has no way to scale it.
I don’t know how to stop his panic attacks, and I have no idea how to make my nightmares of rampant bombs and lifeless limbs disappear.
I don’t know how to adjust to his presence in my house when our floor rarely feels the weight of his boots.
I don’t know how to tell his small children that, yes, he leaves them all the time. But because he loves them so deeply, he is willing to die to keep them free.
I can’t understand those who would question my desire to stay with him, or how I can peacefully sleep beside a “killer.”
I am amazed and confounded that despite all he has seen, he still has the courage to laugh.
I don’t’ know how to give up on my family.
But, most importantly:
I have no clue how to still my pounding heart when he finally walks through our door again, I don’t know how to pull my hands from his sand-stained neck and say goodbye, and I don’t know how to ever walk away from a man who stands while many choose to sit.
I was active duty, and a veteran of the Gulf War and so is h.
Recently His Resereve unit got orders to deploy to the Middle East this summer for an undetermined amount of time. (What happened to the "draw down"? Don't get me started...) I surrender to what I cannot control.
But I found this piece particularly touching.
When I was active duty (JAG Corps officer) I did some casualty notifications...
I hope they're the only ones I ever experience.
The spouses who endure this are the unsung heroes we forget about.
It's the one thing I hate about living off post. NO one around me knows what is going on or that he'll be gone or where. It is not the same as having others in the same boat--I miss that camraderie. A lot.
Thanks for this piece. It helps, although it made me cry too.
If it's any consolation, 25, there IS a chance they won't have to go for very long, or maybe even at all. Our command has a Sailor on an individual augmentee assignment and just arrived in-country. She said many of the folks she had trained up with got sent home before even heading overseas, and when she arrived a lot of folks were headed home early. So apparently the draw-down has started but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the mobilization process hasn't been reconciled with the 'reduced demand signal.' (Speaking of drawdown, I'm really intrigued about the possibility of 15 year retirement, but that's a whole different story).
I've been pretty fortunate in my run, deployed to both carriers and relatively safe air bases (though we did get mortared once in Bagram), everyone in my squadrons came home safe. Sadly on my last boat cruise, one of our sister squadrons did loose a plane. Their squadron was based on the opposite side of the country from ours, but I know it was stressful for the spouses in our squadron (and my then-fiancee) especially when email was shut down. Hours later, they let the other squadron COs tell their wives that we were all safe, but it was HOURS after all the news networks had been running "US Navy plane lost in North Arabian Sea" on their bottom-of-the-screen tickers for HOURS.
This DOES remind me I should probably update my emergency data form with my wife's new address...
that does help. Things can change. For now it seems H might be going to Kuwait b/c it has a hospital there that they are "Building up" which is odd to me. Hoping Iran doesn't go nuts or that we are not planning or expecting more casualties. H is an MD and the hospital there was bombed or attacked more than once, but I'd assume security is better now. And I still think it's better than Afghanistan is atm.
I lost a brother over there in the middle east, long ago, and my now oldest brother is in Afghanistan. We have a lot of veterans in my family. My mom is always riveted to CNN at war time.
My oldest bro got a little tiny wound that got VERY infected there, and his leg won't ever be the same now. Good thing he's not a female who likes skirts b/c his leg looks weird and always will.
But he went back there! He's There now. He's addicted to it I think, and he is civilian, so he loves the adrenaline imo. A bit weird given his age and weight, but unlike my h, my brother makes MORE money there then here. Go figure.
One Hero story for you...
Right before 9/11, my neighbors on post got news that their d, age 6, had a neurological disease that would ultimately prove fatal but would take up to a decade...very very sad. No cure. They had 2 older boys. Then 9/11 happened and her h got a battalion command, his dream job, in combat...
That was October, then in November before deploying, her sister's back hurt and that turned out to be a recurrence of breast cancer and SHE DIED...like on Thanksgiving. Talk about "when it rains it pours."
The h offered to refuse the command and get a hardship reassignment or resign.
She said 'No, this is your job you trained for and though I wish God would not give me all this at once, I do want you to go. We're Americans and they can't do this to us. Go kick some a$$".
Off he went, and returned with 4 pieces of shrapnel in his back near the spine. He can't coach wrestling again and still walks in pain. She NEVER complained about the unfairness of it all. She helped me in so many ways.
When I start to worry or feel sorry for myself- I remind myself of her and what an unsung hero she is. God bless them all.
Another brother (i have many) said the love of his life turned down his M proposal b/c she said she was "not cut out to be a military wife" and she meant it. No more moving every few years to start over in HER career...no more missing her mate/companion/lover/co-parent...
it's not an easy life. Yet I sure miss living on post right now.
(( ))
Unrelated to anything marriage or divorce-busting, today I ran 5 miles about as fast as I ever have (or maybe at least since college). Of course this was with just a touch of a chest cold, so now the rest of my body is joining my short legs in registering extreme displeasure with me...
Hey everyone! As some of you might remember, one of getting-a-life events was a 24-hour ski/snowboard event for ACS. Well, that happened this weekend (and I just got up from a nap which was my SECOND order of business - after a glorious feeling shower - upon returning home!).
The weather wasn't super great - what TV weather people would euphemistically call a 'wintry mix' (with plenty of wind to drive it and keep you pretty cold once all your ski clothes were wet) but, as you might have noticed, I can be pretty persistent and stuck with it. At least the snow, of which there was a HUGE base from the previous weeks and months of snowstorms, was pretty decent to ski on. I took about a 45 minute break for lunch (it would have been shorter but was with a couple coworkers, and one coworker's family) and another 45 minutes or so for a light dinner. Then at 10pm they take all of us off the mountain for a pasta feed while the resort staff does some grooming. But after that, I only took three bathroom/water/clif bar breaks and otherwise powered through. I realize I may be a little crazy, but I think it's kind of a blast to go bombing down a freshly groomed and sparsely populated run at 2:30 in the morning when most (but not all!) of the other participants were sleeping on, under, and next to tables in a very interesting smelling lodge.
Of course the most important part - I managed to raise $500 myself, which I was pretty proud of until I head the two top fundraisers managed to raise over $5,000 EACH
Overall, the event raised over $177,000. There's a few other of these events for ACS around the country, but they say that this is the biggest, so yay us!
Since I'm here, not too much to say on the marriage front. Hadn't heard anything since last monday, when after telling my wife I knew what we needed to do to renew her vehicle's DoD base access stickers she said "I'll see what I can do." But when I woke up from my post ski-travaganza nap, one of her cats was just chilling out in a bathroom sink as if it were a barco-lounger. My DB coach Chuck suggested that the more endearing antics of her little fuzzy pals who she's had to leave behind here would make a good, benign and generally positive way to maintain casual contact with her despite our distance. So I sent her a picture of him, only mentioned it was how I found him after the post-ski-event nap, and resisted the temptation to ask more about how things were on her end (the thought crossed my mind for a minute, but I immediately recognized it would be pursuing so dropped it). If she wants more of a conversation, she'll let me know....
Wow, that sounds...a little sick actually. 24 hours of skiing and snowboarding a great way to GAL.
Glad you had fun.
Lol there were quite a few folks there who took breaks to nap overnight who thought I was a little crazy too for powering through.
tough to say why I find that fun - I guess it's just cool knowing I could keep at it, nothing more!
not too much to say on the marriage front.
There are a few of us here with that continuing update: you, gunny, Grmpy Mnky, me.
There was a recurring bit Chevy Chase did on SNL many years ago after Franco died following weeks of reporting on his impending death:
Generalissimo Francisco Franco is STILL dead!Maybe I'll start using that to update my sitch
Only a MINOR update today, as I had to speak to her about our taxes - it was more than would be remotely convenient to text so I asked if it would be OK to email or call. She actually asked me to call. So I did.
The situation is just that the accountant had an 'authorization to e-file' form that had spaces for both of us to sign, and they said it would be better if we both DID rather than just me. I figured the easiest way to do it would be for me to sign it, send it and an addressed envelope for the accountant down to her for her to sign, and then drop in the mail. Then when the refund hit my account, I'd deposit her share at the local branch of her bank. I just didn't feel like texting all that.
It was the first time we'd actually SPOKEN (as opposed to SMS - you know, actually HEARING each other's voices). Initially she was very clipped in her answers (just a lot of "yep") but as the very short conversation went on, there was a little more to it. Perhaps warming to me a little, or perhaps just eager to get her share of the refund. I didn't press my luck though, and kept to the subject at hand. At the very end, I said I hoped things were going well for her - she thanked me and said 'you too' - so I thanked her. After a BIT of an icy (or shall we say merely business like) start, it wrapped up relatively congenially.
I had a phone conversation with H that was very much the same.
Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead!
Hello Kolja,
Catching up on your sitch. I will be having the tax conversation with s soon, most of our correspondance has been by email, very friendly. I go to see the accountant next saturday, when this is done it will be another box checked on the list of things to do when separating/getting divorced. Each of the milestones is distastful, to say the least.
Good going on the training for the half. I started my slow buildup to the 15 mile mark last week, the weather here has been unusually mild, usually I dont begin the buildup until April. Keep me posted on your progress, tomorrow is 6 mile jaunt!
You will probably find your convos/texting/emails slowly becoming friendlier and friendlier as time goes on. This is what has happended to me so far, it will be interesting to see.
Hey Gunny-
Thanks for checking in! I guess I haven't been so diligent in updating my thread but there doesn't often seem like there's much to say. I figure if I just posted something everyday saying there was no contact between us I'd just be spamming my own thread.
I feel like if I focused on the infrequency of our communication, I might get a little more discouraged but instead I try to be grateful for the friendlier tone when we DO get to interact. I also know she hasn't talked much to her family.
Speaking of her family, I got to see them on Tuesday. My sister-in-law's younger daughter (I'd say our youngest niece, but my sister has a 2 year old...) turned 15 and it was HER idea to invite me over for her family birthday dinner (as opposed to the teenage girl slumber party that's apprently happening this weekend). That was pretty flattering - and we all had a good time. There was no talk about the situation (other than my brother-in-law asking if I had been left with the cats, and kind of laughing, but the guy lives in a house with 2 chihuahas so I don't take it seriously...) and no awkwardness at all like you might expect. It was pretty nice.
Despite the 24 hour skiing, running still goes well. I got home noon Sunday, and Monday evening I ran 3 miles without any slow-down. Last night I did my first sub-26:00 3 miler in YEARS (I know, probably not that impressive to a Gunny
)Tomorrow is my first venture into the double-digits, 10 miles. I'm even officially registered now for the big event. Lifting continues, and so does the swimming when my irregular work schedule and the limited hours available for lap swimming at the town pool allow it. Yesterday, I ran into an acquaintance I hadn't seen in a while at the exchange and (even though I was wearing a jacket at the time) he remarked that I seemed "skinny." Now, granted, it would be even better if a hot woman said that, but the feedback is still nonetheless appreciated.
There's also some travel on the horizon - end of the month about 5 days back down in northern Nevada where I used to live, and I acted like a true team player and volunteered for 12 days working on an exercise in Hawaii in May. I'd never been there and it seemed like on the government's plane ticket, lodging dime, and per diem would be a good way to check it out...
Well, Monday must now be our weekly "talk to your soon to be ex" day. On the one hand I'd like to hear from her more often but on the other hand, maybe it's the way it's got to be for now.
We talked about care for her cats (which are still at my house) while I have to travel for work; I asked if she had someone particular in mind and it turns out she did so hopefully that will work out. She mentioned she recieved the tax paperwork, signed it, and got it in the mail so hopefully we'll see the refund soon.
She mentioned, almost seemingly in passing, that she had to travel back up here at some point to have the divorce papers notarized. While I could have done without that, it did give me an occasion to mention that the final paperwork really ought to specify the dollar amount I'm giving her and for how many months. Though I simply told her that I thought it seemed like something that should be written down, the fact is that if this process doesn't stop, at the very least I'm claiming the support payments on next year's taxes and will need documentation.
Nice to hear from her, and it was cordial - though I could have passed on the divorce paperwork talk and ideally would have liked to have seen some sign that the whole process was slowing down. But, you can't have everything...
Well, Monday must now be our weekly "talk to your soon to be ex" day. On the one hand I'd like to hear from her more often but on the other hand, maybe it's the way it's got to be for now.
We talked about care for her cats (which are still at my house) while I have to travel for work; I asked if she had someone particular in mind and it turns out she did so hopefully that will work out. She mentioned she recieved the tax paperwork, signed it, and got it in the mail so hopefully we'll see the refund soon.
She mentioned, almost seemingly in passing, that she had to travel back up here at some point to have the divorce papers notarized. While I could have done without that, it did give me an occasion to mention that the final paperwork really ought to specify the dollar amount I'm giving her and for how many months. Though I simply told her that I thought it seemed like something that should be written down, the fact is that if this process doesn't stop, at the very least I'm claiming the support payments on next year's taxes and will need documentation.
Nice to hear from her, and it was cordial - though I could have passed on the divorce paperwork talk and ideally would have liked to have seen some sign that the whole process was slowing down. But, you can't have everything...
You're handling this all above board. Couple of thoughts for future contacts.
If/when she raises idea of coming up again to have papers notarized, instead of going in to the content of the papers (since that's not really what she was talking about, right?), talk about her coming up, "Yeah, when are you gonna be up this way?" or "Yeah, when were you thinking of doing that." Really try to focus on/listen to her agenda and reflect it back to her. When you pull things back to your agenda, ESPECIALLY in the context of the D proceedings, it can be seen as adversarial.
Also, feel free to sprinkle in a bit about your life as well. "I'm headed to Hawaii for...XXXX...looking forward to that" "Funny story about the all night skiing" "Progress on your half mara training." You might tell a friend about these sorts of things, right? Not everything has to be about the D or the mundane or just cordial. It is ok to share with her about interesting things in your life, the same way you would with a friend.
Just be the first to go after sharing a bit about your interesting life. Hey, it's was good talking to you, W, I gotta go (something busy and, hopefully, fun)
You know, come to think of it, I dont think she knows about the half marathon at all - a couple years ago she had mentioned wanting to do one. Until recently I never thought I'd do one, until I saw all the 'regular' folks do the one in Vegas, many appearing to walk the entire way. I ignited if they can, I can - and reaching that decision coincided with her deciding she wanted a divorce at which point it seemed like something positive to work for while everything else was getting turned upside down.
I know I havent mentioned Hawaii. In part it's because I just found out last week. Also, even though it runs the risk of the dreaded 'mind reading,' part of me kind of wonders how she would react to it. She ha wanted to go there together before changing her mind.
Rereading my reply I realize it may sound like I may have been arguing - which I wasn't. Just two very thought provoking suggestions, as I hadn't told her about either of those
Rereading my reply I realize it may sound like I may have been arguing - which I wasn't. Just two very thought provoking suggestions, as I hadn't told her about either of those
I didn't take it as arguing =) more as you thinking out loud about it
Last week we actually talked twice - and then again today, so three conversations in the space of 7 days. And they continue to be friendly, which is nice.
Friday, I endeavored to follow Busto's advice and make things more about her. She was tired after a long week; I asked how she liked her new job and she says she likes it a lot, which I said I was happy for her to hear. I didn't get a chance to talk about the half marathon or anything else on my end, at least not without artificially prolonging the conversation - which I felt would seem pursuing.
Today, with my first travel since our separation coming up, I had to ask if she'd gotten in touch with one of her preferred cat sitters (as you may recall, she's left both the cats with me). She did, so that's good. It's the son of a friend of hers who evidently will be in touch. I took the opportunity to also ask what she wanted to do if I got sent away for a longer period of time, perhaps on short notice - seemed like a good thing to have addressed given my line of work and all.
She also asked about taxes and seemed quite excited when I told her our refund was a 'pending ACH' and, provided it posted, I would deposit a check for her half with her bank tomorrow afternoon - she seemed QUITE excited (understandably) and grateful, which was nice.
She also mentioned divorce papers again (which I could have done without but, what can you do) and how she would try to get them notarized down there - even though it's a detail I'm not sure I needed to know. This time I just acknowleged it.
so, all in all pretty friendly which is nice, but still no change in the direction she's going or the speed she's apparently going. On the other hand, finalizing the dissolution doesn't change too awful much from my perspective, and may just be what she needs...
You're in a good place emotionally still, accepting her and her choices. That's all you can do and respects her.
Is the upcoming travel the Hawaii trip?
Can you remind me what prompted the separate rooms initially? So fast track to go from married to separate rooms within 8 months. What were like when things were "good" between you and where else do you perceive things going south. Anything similar happen in any of your previous relationships? First M for both?
Just reread your first post.
So, her 2nd M. She has LOTS of emotional scars from drinking, being controlled and being abused in her past that you inadvertently kept triggering from your own drinking and spending (her feeling financially out of control) and being emotionally neglectful and unavailable. Sounds like she struggled with depression and, potentially, bipolar (her excessive spending) and attributed her unhappiness with life to you.
You can't convince her that you are not the source of her pain, and you are doing the best you can in trying to understand your role in things so as not to repeat the same mistakes again.
Still a blisteringly fast track from M (August) to first apparent pullback on her end (February).
Is this your first M?
2nd for each of us. Our first were right about the same time - hers about a year or so after high school and mine right out of college (difference in age put them at very similar times, now over 10 years ago). And of course very young for us both. We were both divorced for around the same amount of time (~10 years) before getting together.
On my end really the only similiarities were how short the marriages lasted, and that it was the wife wanting out and driving the divorce bus (of course the first time around, I had no idea divorce busitng existed and did everything wrong right up to, and after, the divorce... later to find out that a few years afterwords she started wondering if things could have been different - which in it's own round about way helps inspire me to believe that if I don't manage to keep pushing THIS wife farther away, in time we could have a chance to work on things... but I digress).
The upcoming trip is a short one to Northern Nevada - where incidentally I used to live. Fly down on Sunday and back next Friday night. Hawaii - barring any interference from world events - will be in May.
Separate rooms actually started intermittently and for reasons not initially - at least so it seemed - tied to her happiness in the marriage. Around late October or early November of 2010, I noticed her seeming to be a little less happy and withdrawn. When asked, her reasons were that she was unhappy at work, and not sleeping well because of the mattress (when we got together, she moved into my house since I owned it and she rented her condo - and it was closer to where we both worked). So, we tried one of those fancy sleep number mattresses you see advertised on TV. Seemed like a great idea at the time since we appeared to like different sleeping surfaces, but it didn't work out. She didn't like that one either and still wasn't sleeping well. So some nights she would be on the couch or in the guest room. The whole bed thing was a bit of a saga - and it got us started in the practice of sleeping apart. By the time we had something she liked sleeping on, our other issues had developed so that, more than just having poor quality of sleep due to the combination of mattress and husband, she HONESTLY didn't want to be physically close to me anymore.
That late October/early November was when I had started noticing things going south - the lady who had been so fun to be around, who had this zest, this energy, for life and doing fun things, now pretty much confined herself to the couch watching TV unless one of her nieces had a basketball game. She lacked the interest and/or energy for intimacy. Like I said, when I tried to find out what was wrong, she blamed her job making her miserable. So eventually we agreed she should quit and she was happier for a couple weeks - but by mid-January she said she was unhappy in the marriage.
So, in November, was she JUST unhappy with the job? Or was she already unhappy with the marriage and just being polite, sparing my feelings? No way to know, really.
In mid January, she said she was uncomfortable about my friends and family's casual social use of alcohol - which immediately (and frankly still) perplexes me, because not only was it tolerated when we dated, she was PART of it. It's as if the sort of social scene that was attractive with someone she was dating was absolutley NOT acceptable in a marriage. It's like a saying I remember coming accross once upon a time - "A man marries a woman hoping she won't change, a woman marries a man hoping he will."
Getting a life update -
Yesterday, the base security folks were doing some sort of security/counterterrorism exercise, and most units, including mine, just took the day off to avoid the mess.
So I got up early and hit the pool to the tune of 2,500m, then swung by Safeway for bagels and lunch (must be a sign of growing up, I went to the store for lunch ahead of time instead of paying extra later!!). Then I loaded up the skis and ht the road. I guess some parts of the country had had warm and/or dry winters but the mountains around here have been getting great snow. The one I went to says on their website they had 173" JUST IN MARCH - when I got there they said they had 251" at the base!! but the storms had passed and yesterday was clear as a bell and sunny (it's sunny down here too, and looks absolutely gorgeous) - and since it was Friday not at all crowded. It was GLORIOUS.
Today I ran 12 miles, my longest training run (tapering, thankfully, starts this coming week). Granted my legs are pretty tired now, skiing some double blacks the day before probably didn't help but sure was fun. Since then I've been doing stuff around the house to get ready for my 1 week work trip to Nevada starting tomorrow.
With the amount if swimming you are already doing sounds like you could tackle an olympic or 70.3 distance tri as ur next endeavor, hehe.
I'm jealous of your skiing. I haven't been out all season. I went to a place up that way when my W and I first met called Schweitzer. We also went to a place across the border I can't remember the name of. bit of a drive to get to. No Whistler, but nice Canadian skiing nonetheless.
Congrats on making it to your longest training run intact! Now just the victory lap (race) left. Any time goals or just aiming to finish and enjoy the achievement? You doing a 1 or 2 week taper?
It will come out to about a 2 week taper. Originally my goal was just to finish but my pace lately makes me think 2 hours is concievable. Which kind of blows my mid because I definitely don't have a runners build (50" around the chest, 32" inseam - its probably not pretty watching me run).
Yesterday I was at Mt Baker (its about 2.5 hours to either baker or Stevens for me). When I was growing up on the other side of the state I only made it to Schweitzer once and it was really rough weather (visibility so bad they actually closed) but id definitely like to check it out.
As I try frantically to keep up with other posts, I realize it's been a while since I've updated mine.
My week trip back to Northern Nevada went well. Saw lots of friends I used to work with, the weather was decent, got to fly three times. I enjoyed the pool down there - since it's not a town pool (it's a base one), you're not having to share lanes with 2-3 swim teams, swim school, water aerobics, and every other competing interest. And I was laying down some pretty sweet times. Running was better than I thought it would be at 3,800' elevation - but then again the trail may not have been QUITE as long as the sign said it was.
Things were busy after I got back, getting caught up, but not too unpleasant. The busy-ness at work at least was getting results - tangible stuff was getting done so I didn't feel like I was spinning my wheels like I sometimes had in assignments past. And I had my semi-annual physical test - where I swam 450m in less than 9 minutes for the first time EVER. Pretty sure I got my best overall score in years. So that was pretty exciting.
Last Saturday I went down to Seattle for a scale model show (it's an annual one that I haven't seen in years), meeting up with a friend along the way. On the way home I stopped by REI to get some hiking stuff (since it's ALMOST that time of year around here again). Sunday I went back up skiing - though it's warmed up, as I got near the top of Mt Baker highway, the cut in the snowbank where the plows went through was STILL taller than my truck. The skiing was great - warm enough you didn't need a jacket unless you liked to sweat a lot, but there was still SO much snow that the conditions were pretty nice. And I got a pretty funny (mild) sunburn on my face that was a big hit at the office on Monday.
After getting home from Nevada, it was another 10 days or so before I heard anything from my wife (you might recall that before the trip we had been texting every few days, mainly logisitical things but still fairly friendly). The week and a half of silence wasn't HORRIBLY troubling, as I managed to convince myself it was just part of the process and to get on with life in the meantime, though I'd be lying to say I didn't miss hearing from her.
Well, in the 'be careful what you wish for' department, I got a text from her yesterday. She said she didn't want me talking to her family anymore, and wanted me to 'unfriend' all her friends and family (about 12 folks). Now, while I've been in touch with her mom and sister and oldest niece, we haven't been trying to outmaneuver her or anything like that - not since her sister offered to help us get counseling in January. They've just been very kind and caring to me, most recently wishing me a happy Easter, and occaisionally 'liking' something I post (like pictures of where I go ski...) But of course I realize that's probably not how things look to her. I said she was right to not want her family and I to discuss the divorce and that it wouldn't happen - she said she didn't want us to talk to each other at ALL. I said I could understand that, but I felt that it was something they should have some say in as opposed to me just up and cutting off people who I care about, and who care about it me.
It seemed like an instance that needed a boundary of some kind, and where I think I was able to try and set it in as kind a way as possible. She didn't take it SUPER well, but better than when I cut her off the joint account... so, even though I had hoped for a more unambiguously positive sign, I guess even this is some sort of progress in its own way...
Kolja - It's really great to hear about your various GAL activities. You are really tearing it up! Good for you!
The boundary setting regarding the FB matter I think was an important step for you. It is not your W's choice who you are or are not friends with. She seemed to be trying to exert some kind of control over you and I think you handled it well.
Keep plugging away!
kolja - great job on the GAL activities! Man, you are making me feel like a couch potato.
I completely agree with 2tp. Your W cannot control what you do or don't do. It's your choice who your friends are on FB.
Thanks, guys.
She said something kind of interesting in the discussion yesterday - she had said she hasn't been able to talk to her family BECAUSE of the divorce and that it was very hard on her. The latter part of that is, of course understandable. But it struck me as a bizarre thing to say - as if her family would all of a sudden change their collective mind about her decision if only they wouldn't text to tell me Happy Easter. Of course I didn't mention that.
The other thing I didn't mention - but probably would have if not for things I've learned here, and probably with at least some degree of indignation - is that the decision for divorce was hers and her alone! I'm sort of trusting 'life' to guide her to that understanding without my having to point it out...
Hey, Kolja,
Ya, you're doing great with your GAL activities. Your W is blaming you for her own negative feelings and discomfort (guilt, anger, etc.) re:talking to her family and friends and worrying what they think of her or are judging her. That was spot on for you to let her experience those feelings and not try to "fix" them by instinctively defending yourself or deferring to her.
You are right that so long as your interactions with her family and friends are for the sake of the relationship with them (and not as a backdoor way to influence or manipulate W), then you and they have the right to maintain that relationship as you see fit.
One thing you could do when she brings things up like that (and it sounds like you did to some degree this time) is to mirror them back and validate her discomfort. "I bet that is hard on you feeling that you can't talk even to your family right now BECAUSE of the divorce. I can imagine that you feel isolated because of that, W. It is a tough situation."
BTW, is your race tomorrow??
Hey bustorama-
Thanks for the feedback. I actually had been trying to channel some of the things I'd learned from your earlier comments in my thread so it's definitely valuable insight!
I DID make a conscious effort this time around, though yes in retrospect it probably could have been more overt, to validate and not DISCUSS what she was telling me. If nothing else it was at least nice to have the chance to PRACTICE the skill.
The half marathon is tomorrow - and it's shaping up to be the nicest weekend of the year so far (knock on wood!) so we've got that going for us. I also got the motorcycle out yesterday for the first time in a very long time (thanks to last year's surprise deployment and suspended license). It was so nice that the CO actually sent us all home around 2:30 so I was able to aimlessly meander around the island for a while.
Today I AM going to try to get some work done around the house, take some recycling in, maybe some scrap metal and other garbage in my ongoing quest to reclaim the garage. But nothing too ambitious, what with 13 some odd miles waiting for me in the morning!!
It's hammertime, Kolja. Be the hammer, not the nail.
2:13:14... 571st out of 1052.
Some of the training runs I did made me think I might have a crack at closer to 2 even, but I think it's a more or less respectable time for a debut - especially having a not-at-all runner-like build.
Turns out the parts of this island that I thought were relatively flat? They're not.
Of course it may not have helped that I had to mow the lawn when I got home (it didn't seem like a good idea to do the day BEFORE the race, and it's supposed to rain all this week).
But overall it was a positive experience. Perfect weather. I think I'll do more - there's a Rock-n-Roll half Marathon in Seattle in June I may just tempt the geopolitical fates by registering for!
This morning (another one off from the gym/pool to recover from the half marathon - and I registered for another on in June, by the way), I had an interesting exchange with my wife.
I awoke to a couple texts from her (her work hours start much earlier than mine) about divorce paperwork; how she needs to fly up here apparently to get hers notarized and apparently I need to get something notarized too. I was cooperative, if not enthusiastic. But in the conversation that ensued, I mentioned I wasn't at work yet - and why.
She texted "you ran a half maraton?? Wow" (back when had been dating, she had mentioned it once and at the time, before seeing plenty of 'ordinary' folks run the one in Vegas, I had honestly believed that distance was well past my injury threshold - so, it would have been a surprise to her; kind of a 180 in its own way).
I said yes, and told her about the one I just registered for in late June down in Seattle. She said "Wow, good for you." (two wows in two sentences!)
Since we were sort of on the topic, and I was getting the closest thing to compliments from her than I have in MONTHS (since late summer maybe, now that I think about it), I mentioned how well the swim went the week prior... frankly I'm still pretty excited about it.
She said "Well that is good. I guess divorce is making you better! Good to hear!"
Well now. How to deal with this one? I certainly didn't want to dispute that I was in better shape, doing things that were good for me. But I didn't want to make it look like I was GRATEFUL for the divorce or anything like that. I pointed out that a lot of the swim progress was because I wasn't deployed or anything crazy like that, and that I had started thinking about half marathons a couple days before she announced wanting a divorce. She said "well good for you. Glad things are going well for you..."
I continued, acknowledging that it WAS true that since she told me that, I had learned a lot and realized there were a lot of things I would have done differently given the chance.
She said "well apply that to your next relationship!!!"
Again - I didn't want to sound pursuing and say something silly like 'i'd rather apply it to us' or whatever, and even though it's kind of how I feel inside now, I realized I shouldn't say something like 'there's not going to be one' because it kind of sounds bitter and spiteful - besides, there's that whole cultivating an air of mystery, right? So I said "well, we'll see I guess"... and she sent a smilie.
Overall, despite talking about divorce paperwork (boo!), and her still mentioning once again my 'next relationship' I feel pretty good about it. I feel like there were a couple opportunities to put my foot in my mouth and I THINK I managed to avoid it, and I definitely got to show her a couple positive development. Hopefully its something for her to think about...
Hey Kolja,
Great job on the 1/2 marathon! Rock and Rolls are fun, I have done a couple of them and they really motivate you! Keep up the good work on the GALING,
SEMPER FIDELIS
Thanks Gunny. As I registered for the Seattle one, I was poking around the website for the series and next year, when my finances are cleared up and I've got some more disposable income for travel, presuming there's no navy surprises, I think I'll do the Seattle, Portland, and Vegas ones. In the meantime, since the NFL schedule is out (season tickets already renewed), I was able to pencil in a couple more in the fall - Bellingham Bay in late September and Seattle (again,but not a rock and roll one) in late November.
Funny, I hated running when I ran for my PRT. Now that I swim my PRT (still a much better swimmer than runner, for the record), the running is purely for me. And of course with the situation I'm in these days, having that schedule four days a week is definitely a plus. It would not have been all that difficult for me to have wound up in a more self-destructive pattern going through all this - so it's definitely a positive presence for me. And, was kind of cool for the wife to notice that as well.
I agree, good that she noticed. I have not told my s anything about my schedule, but she knows my schedule anyway from past practice.
Like I said, this is all a new development for me. I was waiting for an opportunity to bring it up - mentioning it out of the blue seemed like it would come off forced, unnatural, pursuing.
Her choice of words "I guess divorce is making you better" was a curious one - I'm sure I could drive myself crazy trying to figure out what exactly she means by it, but I'm not going to..
Was a gorgeous weekend here; ran outside on Saturday (I hadn't been as prepared as I thought for the hills on the half marathon, so now that it's nice I'm running outside more, and taking advantage of all the hills near my house). Then I went to go do some more sorting/cleaning in the garage. My wife had left two piles of stuff - one was stuff she didn't have room for when she moved but said she would be back for, the other was a pile she said I could get rid of - so, some stuff I've taken to thrift shops, some I've pitched, other stuff seemed worth keeping for one reason or another. And of course some of it is rife with sentimentality for me too so it's been a job taken in small bites. This time I came across some notes guests had written her/us at her bridal shower (while I was deployed). Some were to be opened on our first anniversary last August, and hadn't been opened. For a bit, it was a bit of a gut punch - but I tried to make the conscious effort to let it remind me of what we used to be and try to take heart from that.
I moved on to working more outside, which was nice. Come evening time I spent some hobby time, starting a new project for the first time in like four years.
Yesterday I jumped on the motorcyle and rode all over - maybe 6-7 hours including a couple stops, including up to the Canadian border (one of my stops was a walkabout at Peace Arch park). THAT was definitely good for the zen...
Congratulations on the half marathon, kolja!!
That's awesome!
She said "Well that is good. I guess divorce is making you better! Good to hear!"
I'd say she's definitely noticing your changes. I think it will take her some time to process and believe them. Just stay consistent. Work toward being your best possible self. Good for you for becoming better instead of bitter!
She said "well apply that to your next relationship!!!"
Note your next relationship could be with your current W.
If it's with someone else, your W will likely regret it.
Hang in there buddy!
Congratulations on the half marathon, kolja!!
That's awesome!
Thanks JB! I've already registered for one in Seattle in June. I'm not QUITE a dedicated enough to run outside when it's garbage out there (I have a treadmill in the house and a full DVR), but now that it's getting nicer out I can run outside which is nice - I can sure use the hill work around here!! On base there's a really nice 3.2 round trip trail down the coast, along the top of the bluffs and cliffs and whatnot, so it's been really nice.
Good for you for becoming better instead of bitter!
My counselor and I had a similar discussion along those lines on Monday afternoon, and before that my dad had remarked on all the running and stuff. I mentioned that it was certainly better than behing self-destructive, which I know from experience is well within my abilities. My counselor asked me how *I* thought I'd handled everything over the past few months. I stole 25's signature line and said that, aside from my initial reaction after she dropped the bomb, before reading DB and DR, I felt that I played the cards I was dealt about as well as I could.
Note your next relationship could be with your current W.
THAT'S actually a heck of a good point...
In other, essentially unrelated, but really really good, news: a couple days ago, I ran into the guy who will eventually be taking over our wing (all our squadrons, and the school I work at, are 'owned' by the wing). Though he's a bit senior to me, we've known each other for a while. We got to talking about where I was working and for how long, and he suggested that when I finished up here, there might still be some work up here for me; when I finish this set of orders I'll have 3 1/2 years till retirement - so what I take away from that conversation is that there's a not insignificant chance I can do that last tour without having to move, and still getting to fly. It's exceptionally rare to get to fly for 20 full years without some diversion for staff work, so that's pretty awesome.
I also may be well on my way to selling my house in Nevada through the Housing Assistance Program, and we've already found an interested party. He's not only willing to go through the process the beuracracy requires, he's also willing to rent in the meantime.
All great news, Kolja. Good for you.
Some good stuff you've got going for you, kolja. You ARE playing your cards well, and, however, things turn out with W, I definitely see you up at the end of this game. Feels good to channel what could be destructive life changes into positive energy, opportunities, and GAL, and I commend you for doing so.
Great half debut, and good luck in Seattle -- I had signed up for it, but have to pass this year due to injury. That sounds like a nice 5Kish loop you've got there on base.
Why is military retirement at 40? Or is that just the first opportunity to retire with benefits (non-mandatory?)? What do you see yourself doing once you retire? Commercial aviation?
Is that house in Nevada a second house? I lost track of that. How do you feel about selling it?
Retirement is at 20 years so for me 42. I'm not a pilot, so no future in commercial aviation unless its in ops/management - after all as a squadron operations officer I managed a $7.7 million annual flight hour budget down to precisely $0.00 each quarter.
The house in Nevada was a first house when I moved down there. Then I got transferred back to WA - after the market bottomed out which is why I qualify for the Housing Assistance Program which will make up the difference (I bought it at $238K, my property manager/realtor thinks its market value now is $145k, and I still owe $217k). Truth be told, its a little bittersweet. It was the first house I owned, I actually like it, and it was a great 3 1/2 years down there. But even when I have a renter I loose $700 or so a month on it; even after tax benefits I lose $2500 a year on it. The math kind of speaks for itself, and countering the bittersweet aspect is a little brighter financial future - more cash to put away and more disposable income for fun stuff.
Interestingly, my wife will be back in the area for a visit in a week. I think it's to see her family, and to get divorce papers notarized (apparently it wouldn't e accepted with an out of state notary). It's as yet unknown whether we'll see each other or if she's stoping by the house at all
Just ran Bloomsday (Spokane's - my home town - 12k) in 1:15. That's unofficial - based on the iPhone gps, but it's also 11:40 faster than last year's iPhone time. I'll take it.
Nice run, I've heard that is a HUGE race. That's a pretty huge jump from your time last year -- like almost 15% faster. Keep it up for Seattle!
Around 50,000 people. My official time was 1:14:45, and in the front half of all tr categories they used to break it down. Not the pace I wanted to be able to move up a start group but tough to argue with such a big jump, a PR, and all that.
Also, I rode the Harley over here so there's that, too.
Well, tonight for the first time in just over three weeks I heard from the wife. Apparently she's in town, to visit family and get papers notarized in-state.
She asked for the address my house in Fallon (it's not community property, and in the papers it's mine, but the address was left blank, so I conclude it's just a crossing the i's and dotting the t's sort of thing).
She also asked if she could drop by tomorrow afternoon to visit her cats, and if I would leave the back slider open. It's a quiet area out in the woods so I'm not uncomfortable with that, and I also figure that if she wanted to steal stuff or do damage she would have done so in the two months or so between announcing her decision and actually packing up/moving away, so despite the circumstances I trust her enough not to think anything bad will happen.
Coincidentally enough, with the few days home between trips, I've done some tidying up. Cleaning stove top, linoleum floors, bathrooms, etc. So when she visits, she's not going to see a squalid bachelor pad, but a house that's pretty well kept together - I'm kind of happy with that from an "as if" perspective and showing that I'm going to get by OK despite her decision...
" It's a quiet area out in the woods so I'm not uncomfortable with that, and I also figure that if she wanted to steal stuff or do damage she would have done so in the two months or so between announcing her decision and actually packing up/moving away, so despite the circumstances I trust her enough not to think anything bad will happen."
Hmmm, that's an odd thing for you to post. Did you at one time ever think that your W would do damage or steal any of your stuff?
"Coincidentally enough, with the few days home between trips, I've done some tidying up. Cleaning stove top, linoleum floors, bathrooms, etc. So when she visits, she's not going to see a squalid bachelor pad, but a house that's pretty well kept together - I'm kind of happy with that from an "as if" perspective and showing that I'm going to get by OK despite her decision..."
Good for you Kolja! Great way to show that you are going to be ok in the end.
BTW, I've been impressed with your running adventures. You must be in great shape to be able to do all that running and the improvements in your times, etc. Keep it going!
I never worried about her, but as things were getting to their darkest I had one friend suggest having locks changed and stipulating she can't be here unless I am, and even this past weekend my mom expressed concern that she kept her keys - so I sort of figured given our circumstances other folks might also think I was taking a chance letting her here on her own
BTW, I've been impressed with your running adventures. You must be in great shape to be able to do all that running and the improvements in your times, etc. Keep it going!
Strangely, I haven't really lost that much weight - but then I've still been in the weightroom, so.....
Arrived in Hawai'i yesterday. Turns out its pretty awesome!
Which island(s)? This is a great time to be there also because doesn't have the summer vacation crush.
Oahu. I'm actually working on Fors Island, a few hundred yards away from the Arizona.
Oh wow, I've never been to Pearl Harbor. I've only visited Maui and the Big Island. Next time i get out there, I want to go to the memorial.
Work days have been pretty long here (4:30 am till 5pm) but I still get to have dinner on Waikiki every night
We also worked through the weekend which is unfortunate in some ways (though I'm almost positive I'm making a profit on per diem). On the other hand as I left work this evening (Sunday) I couldn't help but see a rainbow to the northeast of Ford Island, so on the way home I popped off the main road and headed toward the waterfront. The rainbow ended right behind the ARIZONA memorial and I managed to get a picture. I'd post it here if I could. There's a definite resonance to spending a Sunday working pretty much at the epicenter of another, very historic sunny Hawaiian Sunday.
Wow, that gave me cold chills.
My birthday is Dec 7 (NOT 1941)so I've been very aware of Pearl harbor Day as long as I can remember. When I visited the Arizona, it was a very moving experience.